**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 30 02:59:57 2009 Sep 30 06:36:25 Buongiorno! Sep 30 07:46:24 hello! Sep 30 07:48:42 Ciao! Sep 30 07:55:11 anyone know how i can totally shutdown the wifi and notjust the fonspot on the firmware 2.3.0.1? Sep 30 07:55:55 tried "wifi down" ? Sep 30 07:58:34 but i mean automatically on start up Sep 30 07:58:50 ah ;) Sep 30 07:59:15 if there is such command for configure luci enviroment Sep 30 07:59:22 so that the fonera 2 doesn't raise Sep 30 07:59:23 up Sep 30 07:59:28 the two interface Sep 30 07:59:31 ath0 and ath1 Sep 30 08:19:41 iurgi: I'm here Sep 30 09:06:48 blathijs, http://trac.fonosfera.org/fon-ng/wiki/build#Setimagetodevelopermode Sep 30 09:06:57 as you suggested ;) Sep 30 09:07:51 blathijs: I wanted to ask you something I couldn't test myself Sep 30 09:08:48 iurgi: Ask away Sep 30 09:08:49 :-) Sep 30 09:13:02 inouk: Ah, nice :-) Sep 30 09:13:20 blathijs: did you have torrent installed before upgrading to 2.3.0.0RC1 tag? Sep 30 09:24:20 Nope, haven't used it yet Sep 30 09:24:59 (2.3.0.0RC1 tag == 2.3.0.0 tag, right?) Sep 30 09:26:58 Though I also upgraded through the SSH interface, so no configuration preservation IIRC Sep 30 09:27:37 iurgi: I could downgrade it tonight, install the torrent app and see what happens on an upgrade, if that would help? Sep 30 09:27:54 iurgi: I suspect the issue is that torrent app used to be a seperate app but is now shipped by default? Sep 30 09:34:33 yes, that would help Sep 30 09:34:39 I will try to do it myself Sep 30 09:34:44 but I'm totally overloaded Sep 30 09:34:48 so I would really appreciate it Sep 30 09:34:57 hmm Sep 30 09:35:00 no, that is not the problem Sep 30 09:35:23 the problem is that the filenames have changed in the fonera 2.0n and I fear they might be wrong for the fonera 2.0g now Sep 30 09:35:33 Filenames of what? Sep 30 09:36:37 of thetorrent installation Sep 30 09:36:44 it is downloaded from the fonosfera server Sep 30 09:37:21 and it used to save them as transmission.fmg or something like that Sep 30 09:37:33 and now it is transmission_2.3.0.0.fmg Sep 30 09:38:25 What's an .fmg file? Sep 30 09:40:03 hmmm Sep 30 09:40:17 it stands for fon image Sep 30 09:40:25 or something like that Sep 30 09:40:39 the idea is that the fonerra accepts to install plugins in the external hard disk Sep 30 09:40:45 but they are self contained plugins Sep 30 09:41:12 meaning that if the harddisk is removed, the fonera thinks it has no such pluign installed, if you plug it in any fonera, it just works Sep 30 09:41:22 the torrent is installed like this Sep 30 09:41:24 Ah, that's useful Sep 30 09:41:38 and this leaves the door open to other possible big applications, like emule etc Sep 30 09:41:53 additionaly, we also create a swap image Sep 30 09:41:58 and a configuration image Sep 30 09:42:02 so thre are 3 files Sep 30 09:42:10 swap, conf and application Sep 30 09:42:32 they are all saved in /tmp/mounts/Disc-A1/FoneraApps Sep 30 09:42:52 the thing is the names of these 3 files did not have a version name prior to 2.3.0.0 Sep 30 09:42:55 now, they do Sep 30 09:43:12 so I think this might be a potential bug if it hasn't been taken on account on the fonera 2.0g Sep 30 09:43:24 I'll have a look at it Sep 30 09:44:01 What's the intended behaviour for upgrades? Should apps stop working until you replace them with a newer version, or should apps for older version also work? Sep 30 10:01:06 hmmm Sep 30 10:01:10 right now you should reinstall them Sep 30 10:01:18 they are not available for the RC1 yet Sep 30 10:01:24 we will make them available soon Sep 30 10:01:39 in the future, the intention is to save the list of installed applications and reinstall it automatically Sep 30 10:01:53 torrent should work right after reflash and keep your download progress Sep 30 10:02:11 it works on the 2.3.0.0 and on, but not sure about 2.2.5.0->2.3.0.0 Sep 30 10:02:13 probably not Sep 30 10:17:00 Ah, ok. So the actual software needs to be upgraded, but it is supposed to happen automatically. Sep 30 10:17:49 How would that work with external .fmg files? Will they be auto-upgraded as well? How about when the disc they're on is not plugged in at flash time? Sep 30 10:18:07 iurgi: the wireless configuration is in the /etc/config/wireless like openwrt? Sep 30 10:18:23 iosonoio: I believe so Sep 30 10:18:51 iosonoio: There is also some stuff in /etc/config/fon, but it seems the main networking scripts use /etc/config/wireless) Sep 30 10:19:22 iurgi: (These .fmg files on external disks, will they just work, or do they need to be "installed" / registered before use?) Sep 30 10:19:46 mmm because i changed /etc/config/wireless but nothing happened... so i'll try with the /etc/config/fon Sep 30 10:22:21 iosonoio: Did you perhaps reboot and did /etc/config/wireless get changed back, perhaps? Sep 30 10:22:28 iutgi: in the section advanced in /etc/config/fon there is a option 'sharewifi' '0' where this value is checked? Sep 30 10:22:41 no it isn't changed... Sep 30 10:22:42 blathijs: they just work Sep 30 10:22:43 iosonoio: It might be that /etc/config/wireless is generated from /etc/fonfig/fon Sep 30 10:22:54 but of course... to have them in the disk... you need to install them 1 first time Sep 30 10:22:57 :) Sep 30 10:23:09 iosonoio: you need to change /etc/config/fon Sep 30 10:23:17 not .../wireless Sep 30 10:23:37 i added option diabled on public and private Sep 30 10:23:40 iurgi: Hmm, I think the "wifi" script does use /etc/config/wireless, though Sep 30 10:23:44 .../wireless (if it's actually used) is generated/overwritten reading from /etc/config/fon Sep 30 10:23:56 iurgi: I can't just put an .fmg file on a disk? :-) Sep 30 10:24:00 ok i got it i'll try Sep 30 10:24:18 blathijs: maybe, but it's generated from .../fon, so it's safer to change .../fon, otherwise on next boot it will be overwritten Sep 30 10:24:20 iurgi: My main question is, is there any reference to such a .fmg file on the fon itself? Sep 30 10:24:28 no Sep 30 10:24:34 that is supposed to be the point Sep 30 10:24:38 but I'm not 100% sure Sep 30 10:24:48 pablo_bz and blogic designed it to be like that Sep 30 10:25:09 I'm trying to wrap my head around how upgrading would work, in that case Sep 30 10:25:11 I think there's no reference to it in the firmware, that's why they call it 'selfcontained' Sep 30 10:25:29 but the fact that it gave me problems with the filename makes me think otherwise... Sep 30 10:25:44 iurgi: I'll dig around the code a bit tonight, see how it works now :-) Sep 30 10:36:22 blathijs: great Sep 30 10:36:23 thanks Sep 30 10:36:24 :) Sep 30 10:37:34 iurgi on 2.3.0.1 if i enable access from wan to ssh it doesn't work Sep 30 10:39:04 iosonoio: Did you set a sufficiently complicated password? Sep 30 10:39:13 iosonoio: E.g., at least a digit, IIRC Sep 30 10:39:15 yes Sep 30 10:39:28 In what way does it not work? Sep 30 10:39:36 Uh, wait, 2.3.0.1 ? Sep 30 10:39:38 it's doesn't connect at all Sep 30 10:39:49 does that even exist? Sep 30 10:39:50 i mean rc1 Sep 30 10:39:57 on dashboard Sep 30 10:39:58 Ah :-) Sep 30 10:40:02 that is the version firmware Sep 30 10:40:04 :D Sep 30 10:40:15 iosonoio: Did you reboot after flashing? Sep 30 10:40:19 yes Sep 30 10:40:27 iosonoio: Does ssh work over wifi / LAN? Sep 30 10:40:27 on ssh i get this version: -------- Fonera 20n Firmware (v2.2.6.0) ----------- Sep 30 10:40:35 yes it works on wifi and lan Sep 30 10:40:52 Then it seems the firewall rules are to blame Sep 30 10:41:10 iosonoio: is there a pass_good (or something similar) entry in /ec/config/system ? Sep 30 10:41:23 wait i'm checking Sep 30 10:42:29 no Sep 30 10:42:33 there isn't Sep 30 10:43:32 I'm not sure it's called that or should be in that file, thoguh Sep 30 10:43:45 iosonoio: Did you change the password through the dashboard, or using the passwd utility? Sep 30 10:43:58 dashboard Sep 30 10:44:08 iosonoio: Perhaps you could try "grep pass /etc/config/*" ? Sep 30 10:45:04 it return the password for all the services Sep 30 10:45:53 But nothing like pass_good '1' or something Sep 30 10:46:01 iosonoio: Perhaps you should try changing the password again? Sep 30 10:46:31 ok but ssh doesn't start at all if the password is not changed Sep 30 10:46:56 but i can access to ssh from wifi and lan Sep 30 10:47:02 only from wan i have problems... Sep 30 10:47:12 anyway i'm trying to change it again Sep 30 10:47:17 from dashboard Sep 30 10:47:57 now i have /etc/config/system: option 'pass_good' '1' Sep 30 10:48:01 ;) Sep 30 10:48:27 iosonoio: I think SSH does start (even though the dashboard says otherwise on first login) Sep 30 10:48:52 ok Sep 30 10:48:55 iosonoio: Did you pick a different password this time? Sep 30 10:49:23 yes Sep 30 10:49:32 i have to reboot Sep 30 10:53:04 hmmm Sep 30 10:53:09 interesting Sep 30 10:53:42 blathijs: looks like you found an upgrade bug Sep 30 10:53:51 well, the solution, not the bug Sep 30 10:53:52 ;) Sep 30 10:53:53 thanks Sep 30 10:54:13 I did? :-) Sep 30 10:54:34 Depends on if he set the password before or after the upgrade Sep 30 10:54:43 /etc/config/system is not saved upon reflash Sep 30 10:54:44 But I think this pass_good thing was already in flipper, right? Sep 30 10:54:47 Ah! Sep 30 10:55:07 In that case, I only found the workaround, not the solution :-p Sep 30 10:55:08 so the pass_good needs to be stored somewhere else Sep 30 10:55:19 Why is it not saved? Sep 30 10:55:36 blathijs: well, identifying the source of the problem, when this is just a misplacement... I would call it find the solution Sep 30 10:55:42 I know what we need to do now Sep 30 10:55:43 hehe Sep 30 10:56:04 iosonoio: Did you set the previous password before or after the upgrade? Sep 30 10:56:29 iurgi: Move the pass_good variable and tell the upgrade script to move it as well? Sep 30 10:56:45 iurgi: I think this might warrant an actual 2.3.0.1 version for 2.0n as well, perhaps? Sep 30 10:57:50 blathijs: nah, this is only for developers Sep 30 10:57:56 it will come in the next release Sep 30 10:58:03 no need for a full release for such a small change Sep 30 10:58:08 we're out of resources Sep 30 10:58:20 as in, manpower resources? :-) Sep 30 10:58:31 and it will only help developers, which are able to change the password (which is the workaround you also found ;D) Sep 30 10:58:34 yes, manpower Sep 30 10:59:07 true enough. Though it might be useful to include this fix in the 2.3.0.0 g version? Sep 30 10:59:31 hmmm Sep 30 10:59:41 I want to make a release as close as possible to the 2.0n one Sep 30 10:59:55 I prefer not to change the code unless it's critical bug Sep 30 11:00:05 And moving the variable somewhere else might be confusing, yes... Sep 30 11:00:24 So, let's see if other bugs pop up :-p Sep 30 11:01:24 yes Sep 30 11:02:38 How is the fon team organized anyway, manpower wise? Sep 30 11:02:49 It seems you're in charge or development? Sep 30 11:05:38 well, I'm in charge of the firmware team, but it is a very broad concept Sep 30 11:05:48 i'm back Sep 30 11:06:00 firmware, server applications related to fonera, fon software on other manufacturers and some specific projects with ISPs Sep 30 11:06:14 blogic is really doing the development of the firmware Sep 30 11:06:22 blathijs: i've set up pass before Sep 30 11:06:36 the firmware doesn't ask me nothing after the upgrade Sep 30 11:06:38 CyrusFF from openwrt helps a lot, specially with the interface internals Sep 30 11:06:56 then nbd and kaloz also from openwrt help from time to time with very specific tasks Sep 30 11:06:59 iosonoio: Ok, that confirms that something broke in the upgrade, thanks :-) Sep 30 11:07:10 pablo_bz is in charge of the server side applications Sep 30 11:07:20 anyway now the ssh through the wan works like a charm :) Sep 30 11:07:29 and javiermon of some sysadmining, the firefox plugin and some other projects we are starting now Sep 30 11:07:38 that is basically the structure Sep 30 11:07:46 so very reduce development wise, as you see Sep 30 11:08:25 Are all of these paid developers? I guess not? Sep 30 11:08:50 (or rather, are they able to devote their full week to fon?) Sep 30 11:09:10 well, they are all payed Sep 30 11:09:14 not all hired Sep 30 11:09:22 but all payed Sep 30 11:10:07 blogic is an external consultant but 'permanent' Sep 30 11:11:04 nbd and kaloz where much more involved in the past, now we ask them for help from time to time Sep 30 11:11:13 javiermon and pablo_bz are fon employees Sep 30 11:13:14 right :-) Sep 30 11:14:26 we hope to get more developers involved in the fonosfera Sep 30 11:14:35 little by little we start getting some people... Sep 30 11:14:42 But not so much so far? Sep 30 11:14:45 there's GPS application already done by a uni student Sep 30 11:14:49 no, not so much yet Sep 30 11:15:00 maaaaany interested people Sep 30 11:15:06 but not developers Sep 30 11:15:58 Even though you'd expect the open platform to attract the developers Sep 30 11:16:52 well, it's not just a matter of having an open platfor Sep 30 11:16:53 m Sep 30 11:16:56 you need documentation too Sep 30 11:17:03 and an interesting project Sep 30 11:17:32 the project is interesting, but I think some people just go to openwrt, since it's completely linked and there's much more community and development going on there Sep 30 11:17:43 but well, we are also benefitted from that Sep 30 11:18:08 True, though I had no clue about documentation or the link to OpenWRT when I bought by Fonera2 :-) Sep 30 11:18:24 Then again, I already had the original fonera, so that helped Sep 30 11:21:29 Is there any attention for the open-ness and hackability of the Fonera in the marketing campaigns? Not so much, I think? Sep 30 11:22:56 I mean, having a nice poster to put up here at university that focuses on the coolness and hackability of the platform would probably attract more devs than an add that lists all the fancy youtube/torrent/facebook apps...) Sep 30 11:23:00 s/)// Sep 30 11:29:41 hmmm Sep 30 11:29:46 well, it's an interesting point Sep 30 11:29:58 we don't advertise that because we don't think it's a big selling point Sep 30 11:30:16 but it's also true that it could help us attract interested and interesting developers Sep 30 11:30:29 you are at the university? where if I may ask? Sep 30 11:36:54 Enschede, Netherlands Sep 30 11:41:18 I'd say that it is a selling point, but only within a very small set of potential buyers :-) Sep 30 11:42:42 yes Sep 30 11:42:59 that's what I meant with "not a big selling point" Sep 30 11:42:59 hehe Sep 30 11:55:21 iurgi: with the command "wifi down" the fonera totaly turn off the radio module? how i can also command the wifi led? Sep 30 11:56:40 I don't know :o Sep 30 11:56:47 :) ok Sep 30 11:57:06 don't know about the led? Sep 30 11:57:21 or about turning complete off the radio module? Sep 30 11:58:44 both Sep 30 11:58:45 haha Sep 30 11:58:48 neither Sep 30 12:00:51 iosonoio: Setting public and private to disabled didn't work? Sep 30 12:01:02 no Sep 30 12:01:06 i added Sep 30 12:01:11 a script Sep 30 12:01:17 with fonstated Sep 30 12:01:21 at startup Sep 30 12:01:36 that execute "wifi down" Sep 30 12:02:03 Perhaps "ifconfig down" helps? Sep 30 12:03:05 with wifi down all the interface "atho ath1" disappear so became useless give ifconfig down on it Sep 30 12:03:39 remains only the interface wifi0 have i to give ifconfig wifi0 down on it? Sep 30 12:03:47 possibly Sep 30 12:04:05 I think that the ath0 and ath1 are the "slave" devices, while wifi0 is the master device Sep 30 12:04:18 yes that's right Sep 30 12:04:24 OTOH, I'd say that wifi is pretty much of if ath0 and ath1 are gone Sep 30 12:04:34 Or do you still get a signal? Sep 30 12:04:51 i get no signal at all Sep 30 12:05:18 What are you trying to achieve, anyway? Sep 30 12:05:51 iosonoio: there shuold be a way to stop wifi Sep 30 12:05:53 i just wanna to be sure that the physical wifi is turned off Sep 30 12:05:55 since the fonera 11n has is Sep 30 12:05:58 has it Sep 30 12:06:06 cause i'm not gonna to use it Sep 30 12:06:09 I'm pretty sure there is a script Sep 30 12:06:24 I will try to find out this afternoon Sep 30 12:06:28 now I need to leave for lunch Sep 30 12:06:30 bye! Sep 30 12:06:32 oh ok thank you Sep 30 12:06:33 :) Sep 30 12:06:37 cu later Sep 30 12:14:09 anyone know i can put wan and lan in bridge? Sep 30 12:20:23 iosonoio: I think there is some stuff on the wiki about bridging Sep 30 12:20:32 ok thank you Sep 30 13:15:48 Urlo Sep 30 13:16:00 Sorry Sep 30 13:16:00 Helo' Sep 30 13:16:49 It's possible one shorts helping for new firmware f2g? Sep 30 13:21:01 Option developer firmware is not present on menù Sep 30 13:21:11 It's correct ? Sep 30 13:21:33 Yes, until they don't compile appds for this firm Sep 30 13:25:17 anyone knows the opkg.conf for the fonera 2202? Sep 30 13:25:36 i mean the src Sep 30 13:25:37 ? Sep 30 13:25:42 Ha ok, thanks, im search only web cam plugin Sep 30 13:28:34 eheh... Emblema.... Sep 30 13:30:10 Hoo Danicasti how Are you? Sep 30 13:30:21 Good... Sep 30 13:30:44 You Are working o holiday? Sep 30 13:30:55 O.O Sep 30 13:31:07 :P Sep 30 13:31:19 Working... ;( Sep 30 13:31:23 Is it a holiday? Sep 30 13:32:17 Yes, for Danicasti :D Sep 30 13:32:34 Is a working man Sep 30 13:32:34 :( Sep 30 13:32:39 Hi hi Sep 30 13:32:50 You Are the beat Sep 30 13:32:56 Best Sep 30 13:33:12 dani? Sep 30 13:33:18 Sorry, my iPhone is a joker on keyboard Sep 30 13:33:28 Dis anyone manage to install Transmission on Fonera 2.0g with the 2.3.0. RC1 firmware? Sep 30 13:33:39 no :( Sep 30 13:33:49 No Sep 30 13:33:55 neither did I Sep 30 13:34:02 member:identifier:decodecoding can you do correctly opkg update? Sep 30 13:34:08 Kernel version? Sep 30 13:34:25 Decodecoding: can you do correctly opkg update? Sep 30 13:34:41 I don't know how to Sep 30 13:34:42 i need to install opnvpn on my fonera 2.0g Sep 30 13:35:24 Decodecoding: How would / did you install transmission on 2.2.5? Through the applications menu? Sep 30 13:35:49 Decodecoding: I'm asking since iurgi asked me to debug some upgrade issues with Transmission, but I haven't used it so far :-) Sep 30 13:36:46 I'm following the standerd process Sep 30 13:39:25 Which is? Sep 30 13:40:01 click on torret icon and select install Sep 30 13:40:14 right, thanks Sep 30 13:40:26 But with 2.3.0.0 the icon is not there, I'd expect? Sep 30 13:42:25 It is there for me Sep 30 13:50:09 But it doesn't work? Sep 30 13:50:21 no, it doesn't Sep 30 13:50:51 Okay, then that's probably the issue iurgi was talking about Sep 30 13:51:18 He suggested it was caused because the app was already installed before the upgrade, but the filename didn't contain a version number Sep 30 13:52:58 no, i tried to install it on a brand new disc Sep 30 13:53:08 no previous versions on it Sep 30 13:53:28 Ah, interesting Sep 30 13:53:41 Any error message? Sep 30 13:54:11 no, it is simply the option "install on disk" is always present Sep 30 13:55:08 Maybe renamin files? What name should they have? Sep 30 13:55:46 I don't have the .fmg file. Only the .swp and .var Sep 30 13:56:40 I guess I won't get the .fmg file until a torrent is starded Sep 30 13:57:32 Hmm, I think the .fmg file contains the actuall application Sep 30 13:57:48 So I don't think it could add that later Sep 30 13:57:58 shit, then it doesn't get installed Sep 30 13:58:58 Perhaps logread shows something? Or don't you have ssh access? Sep 30 13:59:42 I don't since I couldn't switch to dev mode Sep 30 14:00:18 Yeah, that's annoying. Though I think it would have stayed in dev mode if you had switched before the upgrade (Or did you?) Sep 30 14:00:37 I had it in dev mode before upgrade Sep 30 14:00:43 Hmm, interesting :-) Sep 30 14:01:03 But flashed from ssh so all previous things where lost Sep 30 14:01:13 had to config all from scratch Sep 30 14:01:30 Ah yes, flashing from ssh would not preserve the dev mode Sep 30 14:01:48 i'm going to reflash 2.2.5 Sep 30 14:01:49 :) Sep 30 14:02:11 I never step back :-D Sep 30 14:06:56 how much the fonera 2.0 takes to flash? Sep 30 14:07:06 "how long" Sep 30 14:07:11 give it mora than 30 minutes Sep 30 14:07:15 Depends a bit it seems Sep 30 14:07:40 Mine usually finishes within 10 minutes, but some others need up to 30 minutes Sep 30 14:07:49 ok Sep 30 14:08:11 iosonoio: But you can check the lights, if it reboots it's done Sep 30 14:08:25 yes of course Sep 30 14:08:37 just wan to know if my 28 min is normal :D Sep 30 14:10:19 It's not unheard of, it seems Sep 30 14:10:51 (Though perhaps it already rebooted? I've seen my Fonera reboot without breaking the TCP connection, so the webpage kept loading...) Sep 30 14:12:59 units sold before august take 28min Sep 30 14:13:07 the rest take about 8min I think Sep 30 14:14:30 Ah, right Sep 30 14:14:36 Different flash chip? Sep 30 14:14:44 ok Sep 30 14:14:49 Though mine was sold in juli I think? Sep 30 14:14:53 (and is fast) Sep 30 14:15:27 yes, different chip Sep 30 14:15:32 blathijs: maybe it's july Sep 30 14:15:38 can't remember the exact date Sep 30 14:15:42 basically, second batch Sep 30 14:15:42 :) Sep 30 14:15:45 Somewhere around there :-) Sep 30 14:15:50 there was a stop in the middle Sep 30 14:15:50 hehe Sep 30 14:15:51 yes Sep 30 14:16:05 That's probably also the batch that fixed the redboot loader, then? Sep 30 14:16:11 yes Sep 30 14:16:15 your's is fixed? Sep 30 14:16:24 Dunno, haven't tried yet :-) Sep 30 14:16:25 I mean, it has an IP? Sep 30 14:16:26 ah Sep 30 14:16:27 hahaha Sep 30 14:16:32 hmmm then I'm not sure Sep 30 14:16:33 haha Sep 30 14:16:36 hehe Sep 30 14:16:38 there were 3 batches Sep 30 14:16:47 Ah :-) Sep 30 14:16:52 but I think the second got new chip and the third redboot fixed Sep 30 14:16:59 but maybe it was also the second Sep 30 14:17:23 iurgi: have you found the wifi turn off script? Sep 30 14:17:32 Is there any way to find which revision one has? e.g., is there a rev a/b/c printed somewhere? Sep 30 14:17:33 haven't checked yet Sep 30 14:17:39 hmmmm Sep 30 14:17:40 no Sep 30 14:17:45 by the MAC address Sep 30 14:17:53 I could make a list in the wiki Sep 30 14:18:02 iurgi: I think that would be useful Sep 30 14:18:05 but I think I would need to check with the logistics department Sep 30 14:18:08 yes... Sep 30 14:18:12 I think you're right Sep 30 14:18:18 I'll write it down Sep 30 14:18:25 to do it some day Sep 30 14:18:29 iurgi: If you have a raw list, I could make a pretty list on the wiki Sep 30 14:34:02 blathijs: great Sep 30 14:34:09 once I check it with logistics I'll let you konw Sep 30 14:34:15 I really appreciate any kind of help Sep 30 14:34:15 ) Sep 30 14:34:17