**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Mar 01 05:05:55 2018
Mar 01 05:06:08 <ka6sox> test
Mar 01 05:07:25 <ka6sox> greguu ping?
Mar 01 05:07:40 <greguu> yes ka6sox
Mar 01 05:08:13 <ka6sox> see if you can see gemini-pda.txt in this:http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/
Mar 01 05:09:02 <greguu> not yet
Mar 01 05:09:29 <ka6sox> it'll probably take 3hrs for that to start working.
Mar 01 05:09:35 <ka6sox> I'll look in the AM
Mar 01 05:09:48 <ka6sox> that will be where your live logs are
Mar 01 05:09:54 <greguu> ok, will there be a folder for historic logs or just the last 48h ?
Mar 01 05:10:04 <ka6sox> then there will be a directory of the last logs.
Mar 01 05:10:13 <ka6sox> so by day they are broken up.
Mar 01 05:10:19 <greguu> ok, great. Thanks again ka6sox
Mar 01 05:10:40 <ka6sox> please put it in the topic line that the channel is logged and where to find them!
Mar 01 05:11:16 <greguu> sure, once I see the file popup I will add the link to the topic
Mar 01 05:11:31 <ka6sox> very good
Mar 01 07:47:09 <mifritscher> sadly I can't post in the forum as of now (pending enablement) - but regarding https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=34790 : I looked at the debian TP  in its scatter file and I'm confused about userdata/linux-boot they seem to be copied in the same physical region albeit a different partition index?
Mar 01 10:18:40 <devyl[m]> i hope a lineage os port or at least a google free/rooted version could be easily made...
Mar 01 12:08:40 <ktabic> its arrived: https://www.dropbox.com/s/je1zo92lfo2h1pu/IMG_20180301_115424.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/6fwy3v0wxvlr2xe/IMG_20180301_115600.jpg?dl=0
Mar 01 12:09:04 <leinir> excitement! :)
Mar 01 12:09:08 <darkling> Congratulations. :)
Mar 01 12:20:11 <cos-> congrats, how does it feel?
Mar 01 12:20:32 <cos-> there has been reviews where the keyboard has been said to miss keystrokes. does that happen really?
Mar 01 12:26:23 <ktabic> quick test - not really seeing missing keystrokes, except I'm sometimes not pressing space enough. And me pressing wrong keys every now and then (getting used to keyboard size)
Mar 01 12:27:15 <ktabic> is lighter than I thought it would be
Mar 01 12:28:02 <cos-> did you get the camera add-on?
Mar 01 12:29:28 <ktabic> nope. The idea of trying to use it as a camera (open the screen then try and angle the device so you can see the screen while pointing a camera didn't appeal to me
Mar 01 12:33:29 <VartiWork> ktabic: congrats
Mar 01 12:34:11 <VartiWork> I have read that the camera add-on will be shipped separately, at a later date
Mar 01 12:35:59 <lmart[m]> How does it feel for one handed use? Can you hold it up and tap/scroll using the same hand? What about light typing?
Mar 01 12:38:59 <cos-> ktabic: it's easier than using the selfie camera inside the cover :-)
Mar 01 12:39:26 <ktabic> don't think its very good for oen hand use - might just be able to manage the screen if held in portrait, but the screen is bigger than my note 4
Mar 01 12:39:34 <cos-> i wonder if it would be possible to trigger camera with outside button
Mar 01 12:42:22 <ktabic> the typing is pretty good, doesn't need hard presses, decent amount of key travel
Mar 01 12:43:29 <ktabic> in landscape - my thumb can reach about 1/4 the way across the screen
Mar 01 12:43:35 <steve-marinos> cos-: i was also wondering if there is a programmable button
Mar 01 12:44:03 <cos-> ktabic: what buttons there are outside? only the answer button?
Mar 01 12:44:17 <cos-> that probably could be programmed freely, at least by planet
Mar 01 12:44:33 <steve-marinos> ktabic: congratulations mate, seems you received your gemini
Mar 01 12:48:14 <steve-marinos> Do we know if anyone already played with flashing tools and dual booted android and debian
Mar 01 13:09:54 <ktabic> huh, doesn't seem to like my 64gb samsung microsd, but that might be something to do with the card, rather than the device
Mar 01 13:11:18 <cos-> which filesystem?
Mar 01 13:25:54 <ktabic> it was what ever it was formated in by a note 4 - should try formating in windows, then in the gemini
Mar 01 13:28:07 <ktabic> FYI, its a microsim device, not a nanosim (fortunately I had an adapter). Might even be able to take standard sims, but I haven't got one to try with
Mar 01 13:49:06 <Noodles> *cough* https://github.com/NotKit/kernel-3.18-alps-x600
Mar 01 13:50:00 <Noodles> There's other Sailfish stuff in that account as well.
Mar 01 13:52:14 <adam_b> Noodles: and the debian/ubuntu/postmarketos stuff too
Mar 01 13:52:52 <Noodles> And the Android build.
Mar 01 13:55:45 <Noodles> 3.18 is disappointing.
Mar 01 13:56:31 <Noodles> Sounds like Debian is sitting on top of the 3.18.41 Android kernel with hwcomposer for the X server.
Mar 01 13:57:40 <adam_b> Noodles: have you read: http://developer.planetcom.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=5
Mar 01 13:59:44 <Noodles> I have now, ta. Well at least a known good set of source is out there, which should provide a basis for something modern to be built on top of.
Mar 01 14:01:14 <Noodles> Still waiting for mine to arrive. :(
Mar 01 14:08:23 * devyl[m] is still waiting for the second batch xP ^^
Mar 01 14:09:59 <darkling> Do we know what date they're back in the factory?
Mar 01 14:10:25 <adam_b> mid march was the estimate I think
Mar 01 14:11:07 <devyl[m]> so mid/end march the 2nd batch will ship
Mar 01 14:11:58 <adam_b> the estimates they've been giving people who email planet and then post to igg comments have all been end of march or end of april depending on backer number
Mar 01 14:13:37 <adam_b> they should really have just said x-y end march and y-z end april and put that on an update/webpage and just point every enquiry to that
Mar 01 14:15:32 <devyl[m]> do you know an estimated date for a number around 1700? ^^
Mar 01 14:16:30 <adam_b> no reason for that not to make the next batch (its the remainder of the first 3000 they ordered of which they've just shipped the first 1000)
Mar 01 14:17:06 <darkling> They made 1200 or so in about a week for the first batch.
Mar 01 14:17:20 <akik> https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Partner_press_release_Planet_Computers.pdf?x54860
Mar 01 14:17:39 <adam_b> well there are more things that take backer numbers than just devices so it was 1000 devices that they made
Mar 01 14:18:03 <darkling> Ah, true.
Mar 01 14:18:11 <adam_b> but they've not shipped to everyone with a backer number sub 1200 as they didn't have the right ratio of keyboard types
Mar 01 14:18:16 <akik> n800 and n900 had a linux flashing tool back in time
Mar 01 14:18:53 <akik> it's good that i've kept a windows installation for flashing purposes :)
Mar 01 14:21:14 <akik> Planet Computers
Mar 01 14:21:15 <akik> Campaigner 6 days ago
Mar 01 14:21:23 <akik> "We are developing a web checker to allow backers to check statuses themselves as we are currently swamped with enquiries. Regards, Robin"
Mar 01 14:22:01 <devyl[m]> ^^
Mar 01 14:22:07 <adam_b> yea its a shame so many people keep bugging them, it might seem like a little query but when they get 100 in a day it takes away from time for them to do useful things like post the first batch
Mar 01 14:22:33 <devyl[m]> jep...
Mar 01 14:23:16 <adam_b> though I think customs is the main reason that took so long
Mar 01 14:39:13 <ktabic> personally I blme hermes for taking so long - they had my parcel on Monday...
Mar 01 14:39:42 <ktabic> but I gernerally always blame hermes when they are involved
Mar 01 14:40:22 <Noodles> There's an MTK Linux flash tool on https://androidmtk.com/smart-phone-flash-tool which might work if someone wants to risk it. ;)
Mar 01 16:06:38 <Noodles> Report from a friend whose Gemini arrived today: Linux flash tool worked, but Debian very much not production ready and he's gone back to Android.
Mar 01 16:17:26 <darkling> Did they say what the issues were?
Mar 01 16:18:23 <Noodles> High load and dodgy keyboard support.
Mar 01 16:20:24 <darkling> I guess the high load is the lack of graphics acceleration?
Mar 01 16:21:56 <Noodles> No idea.
Mar 01 16:22:24 <Noodles> Mine is still "Centrally sorted" but expected delivery today.
Mar 01 16:22:27 <Noodles> Ha ha ha.
Mar 01 16:50:38 <GL1TCH> Hello everyone!
Mar 01 16:52:51 <GL1TCH> I just saw a YouTube video of the Gemini (in Russian mind you)
Mar 01 16:53:11 <GL1TCH> At the MWC2018
Mar 01 16:55:14 <darkling> There should be several actual pieces of hardware there, too. :)
Mar 01 16:55:15 <GL1TCH> No idea what OS they booted though...
Mar 01 16:56:11 <darkling> Could be one of several possibilities. Android, SailfishOS, Debian are the three most likely. There are others on the way, too.
Mar 01 17:00:05 <GL1TCH> I’m thinking of using mine as a rescue device
Mar 01 17:00:53 <GL1TCH> Flash a light OS
Mar 01 17:02:26 <GL1TCH> I think that it would be a nice little electronic Swiss Army Knife
Mar 01 17:02:28 <GL1TCH> :D
Mar 01 18:20:56 <steve-marinos> Interesting review here, from one of the backers ...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzHe6J34H8&feature=youtu.be
Mar 01 18:26:57 <steve-marinos> sailfish community version it seems ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlVsatf5juk
Mar 01 18:39:36 <potate[m]> I'll never understand why people keep asking for their order status
Mar 01 18:40:00 <potate[m]> asking the same question in 7 different ways won't change the answer
Mar 01 18:40:33 <potate[m]> they should just add a status checker that says: 'you'll get it when it's when it's done, eta: soon'
Mar 01 20:02:47 <cos-> potate[m]: yep, it's a bit stupid. it'll come when it comes and asking doesn't make it earlier. i bet all backers will get it this spring.
Mar 01 20:03:37 <mifritscher> if there was a 3d modell I could print if with my shiny new 3d printer^^
Mar 01 20:05:03 <cos-> thingiverse is full of them
Mar 01 20:30:42 <Varti> mifritscher: hi, saw this morning your message from this channel. I just wanted to tell you your account on the forum has been approved
Mar 01 20:30:58 <mifritscher> thanks :-)
Mar 01 20:31:10 <Varti> later
Mar 01 20:37:41 <cos-> according to this video boot to linux is done by holding esc in boot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJycUyIdSs
Mar 01 20:38:14 <cos-> maybe it would be possible to map other keys for different OS's (number keys for example)
Mar 01 20:38:31 <cos-> do we know what is the bootloader used?
Mar 01 20:41:01 <devyl[m]> no but planet said, that they will open source it...
Mar 01 20:41:43 <cos-> that would be smart
Mar 01 20:42:27 <devyl[m]> kernel und bootloader will be released soon... they said ^^
Mar 01 20:58:38 <cowboycoder> After today's revelation of the windows only flashing tool, I'm wondering if they are even able to open source it
Mar 01 20:59:41 <cos-> what revelation is that?
Mar 01 21:01:41 <cowboycoder> they only currently have a Windows one
Mar 01 21:01:51 <darkling> That's really unfortunate.
Mar 01 21:02:06 <Noodles> There's a Linux tool.
Mar 01 21:02:21 <cowboycoder> there is?
Mar 01 21:02:29 <Noodles> https://androidmtk.com/smart-phone-flash-tool
Mar 01 21:02:49 <Noodles> MTK tool rather than Planet tool.
Mar 01 21:02:58 <akik> Noodles: that works with the gemini?
Mar 01 21:03:09 <cos-> cowboycoder: um, there is a preview version of the flasher available. there will be linux & mac versions also
Mar 01 21:03:19 <Noodles> According to my friend, yes. (He got his Gemini today, mine hasn't arrived yet.)
Mar 01 21:03:35 <cos-> what's with people, also on facebook ppl freaked about the preview version
Mar 01 21:03:50 <Noodles> Kernel source is at https://github.com/NotKit/kernel-3.18-alps-x600
Mar 01 21:04:05 <cowboycoder> why not just link to that D/L page then?
Mar 01 21:04:06 <cowboycoder> if that is the one that's needed
Mar 01 21:04:10 <Noodles> https://github.com/NotKit/device_aeon6797_6m_n for the Android build conf.
Mar 01 21:05:22 <cowboycoder> cool, that's more promising info than their post earlier
Mar 01 21:05:35 <adam_b> they put the update up at past 1am so I think it might have been a bit rushed
Mar 01 21:06:07 <adam_b> presumably when they recover from MWC they'll probably fill out more details
Mar 01 21:06:31 <cos-> we really need a wiki for up to date info
Mar 01 21:06:36 <cowboycoder> yeah, so why not just point people to the MTK page? I doubt anyone who's going to use it cares where it comes from
Mar 01 21:08:20 <adam_b> I think Varti is working on a wiki
Mar 01 21:08:26 <cos-> i haven't used the tool, but i bet they want to make it super-simple so that non-technical users can use it
Mar 01 21:08:55 <cos-> but i agree they could point the technical people to the mtk tool
Mar 01 21:09:26 <akik> it doesn't need to be super simple. non-technical people don't flash their devices
Mar 01 21:09:29 <adam_b> its a technical preview they really don't want non-technical people to try it just yet
Mar 01 21:10:12 <cos-> non-technical people may want to get linux & other os support
Mar 01 21:10:14 <adam_b> but then technical people can figure it out for themselves (as they have)
Mar 01 21:10:26 <cowboycoder> Download page is full of ads and 'free download' links :(
Mar 01 21:10:28 <adam_b> one the linux is stable yes, but not just now
Mar 01 21:10:36 <adam_b> once...
Mar 01 21:11:50 <a-steve> we need more gemini releases to the public for a faster start
Mar 01 21:13:34 <steve-marinos> looks like sailfish is the community version too, does that mean no android support?
Mar 01 21:17:02 <akik> community version? there was an official jolla announcement about it
Mar 01 21:17:42 <steve-marinos> maybe it was the preview units on MWC
Mar 01 21:18:13 <steve-marinos> but so far PC is depending so much on the "communities" a bit much to my liking
Mar 01 21:19:36 <steve-marinos> akik, I'll watch the interview video again, was one of the backers asking them questions in the MWC
Mar 01 21:21:32 <cowboycoder> well, they are only a small team. Not sure how much of the SW development has been done 'in-house'
Mar 01 21:22:06 <steve-marinos> akik, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlVsatf5juk
Mar 01 21:22:28 <cowboycoder> relying on community support is probably their main dev resource, post release
Mar 01 21:24:27 <steve-marinos> Yeah I have to remind myself that it was one year ago they announce it and now people are receiving their 1st production devices
Mar 01 21:28:40 <akik> sailfish x
Mar 01 21:28:54 <akik> https://jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/MWC2018_press_release_FINAL.pdf?x54860
Mar 01 21:29:42 <akik> learn something new every day
Mar 01 21:29:53 <steve-marinos> I seen this article
Mar 01 21:30:22 <akik> https://jolla.com/sailfishx/
Mar 01 21:30:41 <akik> oh it's that thing that was announced for xperias
Mar 01 21:31:21 <steve-marinos> yeah this one is for money
Mar 01 21:31:28 <steve-marinos> for xperia x
Mar 01 21:33:14 <steve-marinos> am trying to see how much postmarketos community is excited about the Gemini for dual boot
Mar 01 21:33:19 <steve-marinos> no reaction at all
Mar 01 21:37:05 <steve-marinos> ok things are getting exciting in the Facebook page
Mar 01 21:37:42 <steve-marinos> mediatech helio 25
Mar 01 21:38:19 <steve-marinos> wasn't suppose to be 27
Mar 01 21:38:20 <steve-marinos> ?
Mar 01 21:43:01 <akik> this page? https://www.facebook.com/planetcom/
Mar 01 21:43:05 <steve-marinos> The Processor
Mar 01 21:43:05 <steve-marinos> Gemini's CPU has been upgraded from Mediatek's Helio X25 to Helio X27. The Helio X27 processor is an update to the X25 processor and has faster main cores and a faster GPU.  The fastest cores are now running at 2.6 MHz.  It has overall better power consumption characteristics than the X25 chip.
Mar 01 21:43:31 <steve-marinos> akik, no the fan page
Mar 01 21:43:40 <akik> what's the address?
Mar 01 21:43:46 <steve-marinos> I will post the link
Mar 01 21:44:11 <steve-marinos> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1774620199505688/?fref=nf
Mar 01 21:45:00 <akik> thanks
Mar 01 21:45:07 <steve-marinos> no problem
Mar 01 21:45:36 <akik> lucky me, it doesn't require a fb account :)
Mar 01 21:46:48 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, what do we know about hello 25 vs 27 beside the clocking speeds
Mar 01 21:46:55 <steve-marinos> cowboycoder,
Mar 01 21:47:36 <steve-marinos> cos-
Mar 01 21:47:41 <akik> https://www.mediatek.com/products/smartphones/mt6797x-helio-x27
Mar 01 21:48:05 <steve-marinos> akik, am more concerned of other things
Mar 01 21:48:51 <DaPol2> 9413980247496183
Mar 01 21:48:56 <DaPol2> ummm
Mar 01 21:49:11 <DaPol2> no idea where that came from
Mar 01 21:49:54 <akik> steve-marinos: like what?
Mar 01 21:49:58 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, is that a security number ?
Mar 01 21:50:05 <steve-marinos> :)
Mar 01 21:50:39 <akik> deca core. i think i don't have that many cores in any of my devices :)
Mar 01 21:50:39 <steve-marinos> akik, linux drivers
Mar 01 21:50:58 <DaPol2> its actually my Hermes teacking number for my Gemini
Mar 01 21:51:17 <DaPol2> which is now at home. I am not. this makes me sad.
Mar 01 21:51:25 <akik> i'd expect planet to provide all the drivers
Mar 01 21:51:30 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, one of the backers posted the specs of the device he received
Mar 01 21:51:39 <DaPol2> I saw
Mar 01 21:51:39 <steve-marinos> it show the hello 25 not 27
Mar 01 21:53:34 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, https://imgur.com/5xb61rQ
Mar 01 21:54:30 <cowboycoder> It also doesn't show CPU speed, which makes me wonder if the app used to read the info maybe doesn't know about the x27?
Mar 01 21:56:40 <DaPol2> yeah - I was wondering that, because looking at the specs on Wikichip the X25 and X27 appear to just be clock bumps of the X27
Mar 01 21:56:49 <DaPol2> umm i X20
Mar 01 21:57:16 <DaPol2> with the X27 having a lower max RAM (4GB vs 6 for the X25)
Mar 01 21:57:18 <cowboycoder> looking at the specs, there's not much between the x25 and x27 anyway. Not enough that would bother me
Mar 01 21:57:23 <akik> cpu-z is just probably showing the cpu scaling speed
Mar 01 21:57:28 <steve-marinos> I surely hope it is a misread by the software
Mar 01 21:57:55 <DaPol2> the worst case is we get what was originally promised
Mar 01 21:57:59 <akik> the cores change the speed dynamically
Mar 01 21:58:05 <cowboycoder> in terms of Linux performance, getting drivers for the GPU are more important
Mar 01 21:58:13 <DaPol2> which is a 2 year old SOC thats bot bad
Mar 01 21:58:42 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, I thought x27 is based on the x20 ? if am not mistaken
Mar 01 21:58:51 <DaPol2> cowboycoder; Its Mali - doubt that will happen - Arm have never been persuaded to open the secret sauce yet
Mar 01 21:59:37 <steve-marinos> Linux drivers compatibility
Mar 01 21:59:55 <cowboycoder> DaPol2 true, but by some other means such as libhybris, or a binary drop would be nice
Mar 01 22:00:37 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, but their last promise was the x27
Mar 01 22:00:58 <DaPol2> I guess at least occasionally updated blobs with some api consistency would be good
Mar 01 22:01:19 <DaPol2> steve-marinos: indeed - heres hoping z-cpu made a goof
Mar 01 22:01:48 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, someone tagged Robin in that post, lets hope it gets clarified soon
Mar 01 22:02:02 <DaPol2> and yeah - X27 seems to be a clock bumped X20 with miravision whatever that is and dual camera suppoer
Mar 01 22:05:25 <steve-marinos> DaPol2, between congratulations on your delivery
Mar 01 22:06:08 <akik> haha ken suzuki has posted a nice qwerty pic on the gemini fan page
Mar 01 22:06:17 <akik> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1852610194783505&set=gm.1801996016768106&type=3&theater&ifg=1
Mar 01 22:06:55 <akik> i've had maybe half of those
Mar 01 22:07:04 <steve-marinos> You mean the one with all querty devices in the universe up till now :D
Mar 01 22:07:11 <akik> about 20 or so
Mar 01 22:10:24 <DaPol2> hes missing a few (including the one I'm using to type this) :)
Mar 01 22:10:52 <akik> desire z, droid 4, blackberry priv missing
Mar 01 22:10:53 <cowboycoder> No N950, not a true qwerty fan :D
Mar 01 22:11:35 <akik> you'd be lucky to have a n950
Mar 01 22:12:24 <akik> not sure if that's a desire z 2nd from top
Mar 01 22:13:02 <cowboycoder> He has got a modified N9 though
Mar 01 22:13:36 <DaPol2> Keyone, Motorola Milesrtone, HTC Most Things (Ameo/Universale/Kaiser/Hermes/Tytn)
Mar 01 22:13:41 <cowboycoder> it's like an N9 with an Other Half Keyboard
Mar 01 22:14:30 <akik> oh yea anybody have that moto z with the keyboard addon?
Mar 01 22:14:47 <DaPol2> I'm still angry at HTC for the Ameo which *should* have been excellent and was an unusable brick that erased credit cards
Mar 01 22:15:25 <akik> http://deepblue21.blog40.fc2.com/blog-entry-200.html
Mar 01 22:15:26 <DaPol2> akik: has the keyboard shipped yet? It was kickstarting late last year
Mar 01 22:15:46 <akik> DaPol2: started shipping 01/31/2018
Mar 01 22:15:54 <akik> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/keyboard-mod-a-physical-keyboard-for-the-moto-z#/
Mar 01 22:16:02 <DaPol2> nods
Mar 01 22:16:28 <DaPol2> never bought the Z that could use it, so sort of ignored it after i saw it
Mar 01 22:26:09 <pakman[m]> I'm using Riot.im on my new Gemini! It is very nice to type with, but I think the app works better  on a vertical screen. Still, its early days, and it is a really neat device.
Mar 01 22:58:25 <Kero> pakman: that's what we want to hear ;)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Mar 02 03:00:02 2018