**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 09 03:00:01 2018 Mar 09 12:34:55 Latest indiegogo comment doesn't sound good. Mar 09 12:34:57 cjkruegerkol Mar 09 12:34:57 4 minutes ago Mar 09 12:34:58 I received my Gemini yesterday and have been unable to boot it up. When I plug in the power (left side) the battery low or empty symbol shows for a couple seconds, then shows 100% then black screen and nothing happens. I tried leaving it plugged in all night but still nothing this morning. Can someone assist men? Is mine defective? Mar 09 12:37:41 Sounds like his battery might be disconnected Mar 09 12:38:40 Again, QC failed Mar 09 12:40:21 I haven't been keeping up with the comments - just read the latest now. What's the deal with that serial spammer Der999? Tried to watch his 1+hour video and gave up after 5 mins... just seems like a ranter to me... Mar 09 12:41:27 I found it somewhat entertaining, but the best part is where Robin replies to one of his comments and diplomatically tells him to f*** off Mar 09 12:42:36 ha! appropriate response...kudos Robin! Mar 09 12:43:05 good to know he's reading the comments, though Mar 09 12:43:29 I'd prefer it if they just got on with what they said we'd have this week, the order checker Mar 09 12:43:40 now shunted to next week Mar 09 12:43:49 @jeffers[m] Check the battery is seated correctly - from the description it would seem that either it has a faulty connection, or the battery itself is borked Mar 09 12:44:17 u0_a1011: it's not my device Mar 09 12:44:32 ah Mar 09 12:45:29 most of us can feel lucky not being on the first batch :-) Mar 09 12:47:36 The thing a lot of people are missing is that the nature of crowdfunding is that you are paying money to (maybe) be a beta tester - you're the earliest of early adopters and your experience will be what is used to imprve the experience for people who pay for a product rhater than make an investment into what might become a product Mar 09 12:47:44 planet already said that those who backed in the beginning when the x25 specs were shown get a x25, and those who backed when the x27 specs were shown, get a x27 Mar 09 12:47:54 is there still some disagreement on that? Mar 09 12:48:15 What? About the risks of crowdfunding? Oh yes. Mar 09 12:48:24 Entitlements bitches everywhere :) Mar 09 12:48:30 I doubt the numbers will work out exactly for that though Mar 09 12:49:21 They didn't need to mention that, just say, "the factory screwed up, sorry, but what can we do?" Mar 09 12:49:26 jeffers[m]: X27 vs X25? probably will - what they seem to have made is the 4G units from the first few thousand backers Mar 09 12:49:47 i can't listen to that whining Mar 09 12:50:11 But yeah - that was an unneccesary bit of overexplaining which if they hadn't put it in would have come across as "Sorry, we'll do better next time" - putting the aside about processors vs backers in came across as "and it sucks to be you" Mar 09 12:50:49 Everyone moaning about x25/x27 needs to take a breath and count themselves lucky they didn't back Vega+ Mar 09 12:51:27 Yeah - ask Janko about that one... Mar 09 12:51:31 @DaPol2 true, it was a bit of a mealy mouthed excuse Mar 09 12:51:31 Basically, PC really, really needs to work on their PR skills. That way, they could avoid a lot of this whining. Mar 09 12:51:49 +1 Mar 09 12:52:02 I've had one basket case crowd fund campaign so far and been lucky with the rest Mar 09 12:52:20 very little whining so far compared to jolla tabletgate Mar 09 12:52:32 The Jelly Pro works exactly as advertised - it's a tiny 4G phone and it works. Mar 09 12:53:09 The SparkMaker is a cheap SLA printer (emphasis on the "cheap") what's happend there is groupthink to fix the shortcomings and make it what it should be and a load of "Meh - it was $99 from China, what can you expect?" Mar 09 12:53:46 The Gemini - I get the feeling this may have been oversold, or possibly the bitching level goes up once you get over $100 Mar 09 12:54:11 OTOH, the basket case one (JackFish) was seeing personal death threats against the campaign owner Mar 09 12:54:22 So, PC should count themselves lucky so far Mar 09 13:00:38 woot, is this gemini? You have the following shipments due to be despatched to you. Mar 09 13:00:41 Your parcel(s) is due to be despatched on 09/03/2018 with myHermes Mar 09 13:01:11 and if so, i'm in the unlucky first batch.. Mar 09 13:01:49 cos-: What number did you have? Mar 09 13:02:09 I remember that we ordered at about the same time :P Mar 09 13:03:11 razumihin: 1355 Mar 09 13:03:25 Yeah, I was at 2100 or something. Mar 09 13:03:52 i suppose they ship 4G models > 1000 as all manufactured ones are those Mar 09 13:04:06 Yeah. Mar 09 13:04:15 what? I'm 1290 and order not even locked Mar 09 13:04:35 jeffers[m]: 4G model? Mar 09 13:04:50 Yes Mar 09 13:05:13 I don't think that they fill them in order. Mar 09 13:05:29 weird.. check spam folder, i got the notification mail 5 minutes ago Mar 09 13:05:32 DaPol2 (IRC): they have been pretty tone-deaf in communications and such. the linux flashing tool being windows-only is an example. there are several times where the reasonable response is "what were they thinking?" Mar 09 13:06:09 I have a funny feeling that they sent all the UK keyboard models straight to the UK. I'm in Japan but asked for a UK keyboard. Mar 09 13:06:23 I suspect what whe have here is typical engineering types who have very sparse social skills and almost no sales skills Mar 09 13:07:26 mine is nordic keyboard, or at least i hope it really is.. Mar 09 13:07:48 probably keyboard variant also affects the shipping schedule Mar 09 13:07:56 DaPol2 (IRC): and it doesn't exactly build confidence! Mar 09 13:08:26 Often it's almost as if they think that not telling us stuff is the best idea Mar 09 13:08:35 depscribe[m]: Yeah - it's why pure technie companies tend not to do well no matter how good the technology is Mar 09 13:08:49 jeffers[m]: Tell them nothing, they have nothing to come back wiht, and I don't have to try and be nice Mar 09 13:09:17 depscribe[m]: would you prefer no flashing tool to windows-only? Mar 09 13:10:04 cos-: Python based tool that uses USB Raw capabilities so that it's platform independent :) Mar 09 13:10:20 (Yeah, yeah - I know, if I want one go and write one) Mar 09 13:10:53 jeffers: which brings on speculation: "it's going to be perfect!" "it's going to suck!" Mar 09 13:11:27 cos- (IRC): doesn't matter to me one way or the other -- a windows tool is of no use to me. Mar 09 13:11:51 And I quote. "All hardware sucks, all software sucks, it's just how hard and in what way that varies" Mar 09 13:12:04 most probably the flasher tool is outsourced and first priority is in windows version (which is understandable) Mar 09 13:13:04 cos-: Given that its sole purpose is to install Linux on experimental hardware, having a Windows default is a bit odd. If it was to install Win 10 Mobile then yeah... Mar 09 13:13:35 i wouldn't call gemini experimental hardware Mar 09 13:13:49 For Linux? Pretty much is. Mar 09 13:15:53 at least i funded a production ready mobile phone with android & linux support, not an experimental device. Mar 09 13:17:20 but anyway, waiting for all three flashers to be finished and only after that releasing them would cause much more annoyance than releasing them when they are ready. that's the only sane way to do it. Mar 09 13:18:31 The way to do this cleanly would be a smart bootloader that can perform the flashing itself, posibly NAND images Mar 09 13:18:40 something like TWRP or CWM Mar 09 13:19:31 yep, and technically i'd prefer a platform independent flasher which should be open source from day one. maybe there is some licensing issues preventing that. Mar 09 13:22:06 i'm sure we'll get a linux flashing tool. like i had for nokia n900 Mar 09 13:22:31 *looks at the tool* Mar 09 13:23:03 akik: yes, it's promised but naturally lower priority than win flasher Mar 09 13:24:57 OK - haven't tried it, but sitting looking at the FlashTool it's the standard MediaTek flash tool Mar 09 13:25:04 This exists: https://appuals.com/how-to-install-sp-flash-tool-on-ubuntu-for-mediatek-android-flashing/ Mar 09 13:25:24 I think the reason we don't have a linux one is because Mediatek don't make a Linux one Mar 09 13:25:30 I haven't had chance to try the vanilla mediatek flasher Mar 09 13:25:38 DaPol2: are you certain that works with the gemini? Mar 09 13:26:38 On the one hand I can't see why it wouldn't work, but then if it did, why does PC have to release a branded version? Mar 09 13:26:51 we have wiki, maybe it's time to get some content to it http://www.oesf.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Mar 09 13:27:06 it's dangerous to spread information that is not relevant Mar 09 13:27:11 akik: As I say "I haven't tried it" Mar 09 13:27:15 cowboycoder: probably they want it to be as easy as possible for non-technical users so they want simplified gui Mar 09 13:27:43 the one they ship isn't exactly simplified Mar 09 13:28:21 * DaPol2 wonders where his Linux laptop is Mar 09 13:29:42 @cos- I can almost see that argument, except for one thing. Who at this stage in it's development is non-technical, yet wants to add a dual boot option to an as yet unfinished Linux port? Mar 09 13:30:24 cowboycoder: Unfortunately I know the answer to that. Mar 09 13:30:41 It's the sort of person who goes "This has all the flashy lights and shiny buttons - let's push them all regardless of what they do" Mar 09 13:30:54 :D Mar 09 13:31:07 but that's just going to increase the support load even more Mar 09 13:31:22 cowboycoder: idk what's the exact status on linux port, but they are aiming to get it fully working. Mar 09 13:31:23 yeah. Mar 09 13:31:42 They should have gone Linux only, until there's something ready for mere mortals Mar 09 13:31:43 cos-: At the moment it boots, but seems it can't use most of the radios Mar 09 13:32:31 DaPol2: ok, doesn't sound very usable yet. how are the updates handled? with plain apt? Mar 09 13:33:08 cos-: I'm guessing "Flash the new image" Mar 09 13:33:24 Only guessing, as there haven't been any updates yet Mar 09 13:34:41 I'd guess there's a component of bootloader and a component of kernel in it - kernel you could probably do by Apt - bootloader - I wouldn't want that getting effed with automatically Mar 09 13:36:03 I'm thinking the Samsung UEFI problem with Grub a while ago where Grub did something silly to the UEFI environment variables and bricked the devices Mar 09 13:39:25 ok, i hope the bootloader gets "finished" quite soon, reflashing is not very user-friendly Mar 09 13:53:43 OK - downloading the Linux image now - let's see if this Linux flash tool works. Mar 09 13:53:59 DaPol2, offtopic, but were Jelly Pro bakers able to persuduade them to release GPL kernel source in the end? Mar 09 13:54:18 NotKit: Not so's I've seen Mar 09 13:54:31 never went digging - I tend not to customise my Android handsets that much Mar 09 13:55:09 I suspect they would just point you at Kernel.org and tell you to go whistle on their kernel config parameters Mar 09 13:56:03 flasher tool is just SP FlashTool with some dangerous buttons disabled Mar 09 13:57:07 so vanilla one *works* if you get new enough version, just be careful not to format nvram Mar 09 13:57:44 the tool released by PC? Mar 09 13:58:51 yes Mar 09 13:59:44 DaPol2, it's MediaTek, so it has hugely customized kernel just like us Mar 09 13:59:59 Pretty much every phone these days does Mar 09 14:00:01 lol Mar 09 14:00:02 info like this needs to be in wiki.. i'll start writing it when my gemini arrives if nobody else is faster Mar 09 14:00:08 the last ones which didn't were OMAP based Mar 09 14:00:11 So, 10 years ago now? Mar 09 14:00:26 it's just Jelly could be a nice companion to Gemini in theory due to its size Mar 09 14:01:18 Yep - that was my thinking Mar 09 14:01:39 Although I think the perfect companion to Gemini for me, which I will try when I find the charger again, is my Moto 360 Mar 09 14:01:47 but without kernel sources they are breaking GPL and you won't be able to go to newer Android version or alternative OS easily Mar 09 14:01:53 I think a smart watch as an offboard screen and control interface.... Mar 09 14:02:37 NotKit: While you're not wrong, how often do phone manufacturers actually release the sources in any sensible way? I know that CGM back in the day quite often needed to provide the stock FW kernel to get a bootable system up :( Mar 09 14:03:20 DaPol2, big manufacturers do that for every device and most of time it's even buildable Mar 09 14:03:34 like Lenovo, Samsung, ZTE, etc Mar 09 14:04:23 say, every officially supported LineageOS device has kernel sources Mar 09 14:05:24 dreaming ? Mar 09 14:05:48 Small manufacturers are using the pre-cooked version supplied by the chipset provider as part of the chipset support package Mar 09 14:06:16 sure, but they don't bother to release it Mar 09 14:06:28 "They" in this case would be Mediatek Mar 09 14:06:47 not MediaTek, but ODM Mar 09 14:07:20 since sources from MediaTek get customized as well to add support for panel, touchscreen and so on Mar 09 14:07:34 "let's pay them a visit" Mar 09 14:07:52 otherwise you could easily use MediaTek tree from other device which has the sources Mar 09 14:11:38 true, we can not have it too easy. we welcome a challange any time.. Mar 09 14:14:55 Linux - it's like Java - it's so portable you can debug it on almost any platform. Mar 09 14:15:05 "Write once, debug everywhere" Mar 09 14:15:42 linux, java, in one sentence ? dare you Mar 09 14:17:02 Grumble mumble when I were a lad grumble Mar 09 14:17:18 OK - any idea who the assembler is for Gemini? Mar 09 14:17:34 PC are the design agency, but the grunt work will have been done in China Mar 09 14:21:12 assembler ? gcc I bet Mar 09 14:22:31 greguu: Which company put it together Mar 09 14:37:22 IBM : cobol and java. what a contradiction Mar 09 15:55:10 greguu: as a veteran of the WinOS/2 debacle of the early 1990s, i'm probably a little touchy about the various linux promiss from PC -- but now you remind me that ibm is bigger than PC (or at least it was in 1993). Mar 09 15:55:47 depscribe: promises Mar 09 16:31:25 does PC have the BSP for the chipset or is it something that the ODM owns? Mar 09 16:44:41 Waiting Mar 09 16:45:48 for what? Mar 09 16:45:56 i ordered the camera attachment yesterday Mar 09 16:46:07 gemini really useful i portrait mode can use it like a normal phone when taking photos Mar 09 16:46:21 rather than open the clamshell landscape Mar 09 16:46:51 serp_: waiting to receive mine Mar 09 16:47:12 Which should be by the end april πŸ˜‚ Mar 09 16:47:46 By the time i will probably PC would be planning version 2 Mar 09 16:47:57 i am wondering what Gemini 2 will be Mar 09 16:48:01 hopefully it is smaller Mar 09 16:48:03 size of revo Mar 09 16:48:25 the gemini is a bit too long Mar 09 16:48:28 Never seen a revo Mar 09 16:49:09 Link it Mar 09 16:49:10 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Psion-Revo-8MB-Palmtop-Computer-1700-0015-/272157821648 Mar 09 16:49:18 πŸ˜πŸ˜‚ Mar 09 16:49:29 I knew you were Mar 09 16:49:36 I had a Revo for a few years...surprisingly usable for it's size Mar 09 16:50:46 i loved the revo's size Mar 09 16:50:50 it is the perfect size IMO Mar 09 16:51:14 the g emini is a bit too long Mar 09 16:51:21 I cannot guess since never seen both of the devices Mar 09 16:51:36 Is the gemini longer than e90? Mar 09 16:51:58 HOW MUCH!? I soo regret passing on all my Psions to my nieces who promptly broke them and threw them in the bin sigh Mar 09 16:52:00 unknown Mar 09 16:52:20 psion devices are now highly collectible Mar 09 16:52:24 i still have my 200lx sitting on my desk Mar 09 16:52:56 they need to shave about 3/4 an inch off the length of the gemini Mar 09 16:53:34 Am guessing the keyboard is what shaped the size of the gemini Mar 09 16:53:42 Or the way around Mar 09 16:53:45 i met an old friend today. she was still using an e90 Mar 09 16:53:55 i think it was the screen Mar 09 16:53:57 But looking at the bezels Mar 09 16:54:03 the screen is an off the shelf mobile phone screen Mar 09 16:54:03 the outer shell color was very worn out Mar 09 16:54:25 akik: i still have it Mar 09 16:54:32 But not using it Mar 09 16:54:50 I will picture it once am home and find it Mar 09 16:54:52 i am actually now very happy with no display on the front it makes it a lot less distracting the LED's arejust fine for my purposes Mar 09 16:55:20 can get a lot of work done rather than constantly looking at the screen every time to gemini buzzes Mar 09 16:55:25 I guess it will need a learning curve and get used too Mar 09 16:56:23 And for me since i drive a lot, for a daily driver am gonna need to know who is calling Mar 09 16:56:30 i liked the idea of an eink display Mar 09 16:56:44 Because some calls i would want to miss Mar 09 16:56:58 bluetooth headset and use the announce feature Mar 09 16:57:04 where it tells you the name or phone number Mar 09 16:57:06 while ringing Mar 09 16:57:08 Eventually Mar 09 16:57:22 much safer than looking at any screen ona mobile device while driving Mar 09 16:57:40 I use a windshield holder Mar 09 16:58:00 i don't think the gemini would work well with a windshield holder Mar 09 16:58:01 How do you think i sometimes follow while at work Mar 09 16:58:09 Yes me too Mar 09 16:58:16 akik: me too...even a small e-ink screen in place of the forward-facing camera would do...wonder if it's DIY-able? Mar 09 16:58:27 canny do you have your gemini? Mar 09 16:58:46 Yeah would be great with e-ink Mar 09 16:58:49 what does [m] mean in your nicks? Mar 09 16:58:56 Matrix Mar 09 16:59:07 They are neo followers Mar 09 16:59:11 😝 Mar 09 17:00:11 no...my order is in the 29XX range so hopefully in the next batch (yeah I'm a Matrix user...I don't see the code anymore - all I see is blonde, brunette, redhead...) Mar 09 17:00:17 having the physically open up the device is great for not getting distracted Mar 09 17:00:27 putting a screen on front would make it a distracting device like any phone Mar 09 17:00:44 canny[m]: spot on Mar 09 17:00:50 πŸ˜‚ Mar 09 17:01:16 I like being distracted 😊 Mar 09 17:02:19 if you want to be distracted leave the gemini open then Mar 09 17:02:20 lol Mar 09 17:02:36 i am curious to see how the hinges hold up Mar 09 17:02:45 the m agnets are very strong i think at some point either the hinges or screen will give Mar 09 17:02:50 back when tablets were all the rage, I was always looking out for one with LCD at the front and e-ink at the back - was fed up carrying around my kindle AND tablet at the same time... Mar 09 17:02:50 almost too strong Mar 09 17:03:53 canny[m]: to be honest i was not familiar with e-ink till recently Mar 09 17:04:07 serp_: lets hope for the best Mar 09 17:04:15 canny[m]: my order number is 22xx and status order placed Mar 09 17:04:53 akik: make sure to add a phone number on your order if you haven’t Mar 09 17:05:05 great tech for reading, steve-marinos - and ultra-low power Mar 09 17:05:07 if I extract an APK from an old tablet Ihave will it retain the login information? I long forgot the login information and the app is no longer supporoted Mar 09 17:05:17 and I want to transfer it to my gemini Mar 09 17:05:23 but I have no idea what the login info it Mar 09 17:05:37 serp_: i doubt mate Mar 09 17:05:47 anyway to find out what it is in the file system? Mar 09 17:05:52 canny[m]: yeah got me interested Mar 09 17:06:24 Would have been really awesome if gemini support such tech Mar 09 17:06:38 doubtful, serp_ - the APK is just the executable and libraries.... login data is usually held somewhere else Mar 09 17:06:43 And forget about the leds Mar 09 17:06:51 steve-marinos: it's there Mar 09 17:06:55 for this particular app everything is local Mar 09 17:07:02 it does not phone out to a server Mar 09 17:07:18 serp_: try with directory Mar 09 17:07:31 Its directory Mar 09 17:07:45 If info are stored locally Mar 09 17:07:59 . o O ( I wonder if you could program the LEDs so that if you 'swing' the device, it could sky-write dot-matrix text... ) Mar 09 17:08:02 so I asked PC why their Indiegogo page specs page sucks, they said they have problems updating the page. Can you believe it? lol Mar 09 17:08:27 it always helps to say sucks when you want something done Mar 09 17:08:49 potate[m]: i blame eve Mar 09 17:09:18 Eve blamed the snake Mar 09 17:10:16 I blame the Big Bang, personally... Mar 09 17:10:23 i wonder when PC will release the promised service pack that will fix the keyboard everytime i reset it reverts back to the UK keyboard Mar 09 17:11:53 canny[m]: maybe it wasn’t as big more like pew pew pew pow Mar 09 17:11:57 😝 Mar 09 17:12:32 serp_: ask TheKit[m] whom i miss from day to day 😊 Mar 09 17:13:28 I guess it should be considered the Big Fart, Steve - until inflation kicked in! Mar 09 17:13:42 canny[m]: lmfao Mar 09 17:14:02 (apologies...I had mexican for lunch!) Mar 09 17:14:16 TheKit[m]: who is developing on the android part Mar 09 17:14:33 canny[m]: chilly dogs Mar 09 17:14:59 The perfect solution for a big bang theory Mar 09 17:15:39 heh Mar 09 17:16:40 TheKit[m]: stop lurking and join mate Mar 09 17:16:48 Take a break Mar 09 17:17:16 Have a kitkat Mar 09 17:17:36 d'oh - was typing that line! Mar 09 17:18:33 canny[m]: sorry i take it back Mar 09 17:18:51 canny[m]: see! You need a gemini 😊 Mar 09 17:20:45 I could do with a replacement phone right now - every time I go cycling, the cold air kills my Nexus's battery...just nosedives to 0% gggrrr Mar 09 17:21:03 A random question any know of a tablet that support full linux Mar 09 17:21:41 Which nexus you got canny[m] ? Mar 09 17:23:06 steve-marinos: I've been pondering that myself. I have a LINX 8 (atom-based) which might run something reasonably well.. (my phone is a Nexus 6P but the battery must be on it's last-legs... this cold snap in NI seems to drain it in 10 mins) Mar 09 17:23:53 canny[m]: i get that with iphone 6s on very cold environment Mar 09 17:23:56 steve-marinos, hey, I don't know much about Android side Mar 09 17:24:15 steve-marinos: i've got old intel exopc slate with ubuntu, but i guess it's outdated Mar 09 17:24:16 A random question any know of a tablet that support full linux Mar 09 17:24:21 something Intel-based Mar 09 17:24:49 intel-based that looks like pc might be best bet. something that runs normal windows. Mar 09 17:24:53 NotKit: what about the kindle amazon Mar 09 17:25:09 The old one Mar 09 17:25:26 It is cheap for messing around Mar 09 17:25:49 don't expect great Linux on anything that is ARM and came with Android Mar 09 17:25:54 somebody's been able to install linux on onda v80 tablet Mar 09 17:25:58 NotKit: so it seems the android side would be PC devs ? Mar 09 17:26:03 https://medium.com/@tomac/installing-ubuntu-mint-linux-on-onda-820w-tablet-727747a376b Mar 09 17:26:21 steve-marinos, PC + Chinese ODM Mar 09 17:26:30 the Kindle Fire series should be doable - judging by a quick Google Mar 09 17:27:25 Or else any of the nexus or oneplus supported by nethunter Mar 09 17:27:27 if you want something ARM and more or less supported by mainline, you can look for AllWinner-based Chinese tablets Mar 09 17:27:46 NotKit: weirdly true Mar 09 17:28:51 Am getting old for archlinux Mar 09 17:29:32 or...if you don't need it to be mobile, I'm running Linux on several O2 Jogglers (rebadged OpenPeak devides) - they're like fat digital photo frames... Mar 09 17:29:41 -devides +devices Mar 09 17:29:50 https://i.imgur.com/qUnW3m6.jpg Mar 09 17:30:46 canny[m]: i really miss my n900 Mar 09 17:30:52 i think the gemini will eat batteries on linux Mar 09 17:31:05 not sure if PC has access to the BSP for the chipset Mar 09 17:31:10 probably has to rely on the ODM Mar 09 17:31:23 depends on what you mean for BSP Mar 09 17:31:31 board support package Mar 09 17:32:02 no, I understand, but no idea what kind of BSP comes with MediaTek chips Mar 09 17:32:05 Arch linux reminds me of the early fedora releases Mar 09 17:32:28 what they have is Android source tree Mar 09 17:32:49 but it's still full of blobs Mar 09 17:32:55 steve-marinos: I don't miss the Nokia communicators at all - the one I had (for 2 weeks) was bulky, untypable, and I had to wear combat trowsers (cargo pants in the US?) just to carry it around Mar 09 17:32:59 what about the other chips? Mar 09 17:33:29 I think the ODM is the one that designed the PCB layout Mar 09 17:33:35 canny[m]: e90 was a great batting tool Mar 09 17:33:43 not PC Mar 09 17:35:05 all PC did interanlly is add lanscape functionality and the pop up menu i don't see much else specific to the gemini vs other android tablets Mar 09 17:35:47 steve-marinos: batting? you hit balls with it? was certainly bulky enough Mar 09 17:35:59 http://labs.mediatek.com/en/platform/mediatek-x20 Mar 09 17:36:06 that is the reference design Mar 09 17:36:20 The Nokia E70 was a nice phone. Small, but butterfly keyboard. Mar 09 17:39:27 I remember the E70...wacky design but I liked that about Nokia those days... (except for the n-Gage 'taco') Mar 09 17:39:51 serp_: as you used your gemini for a few days now what generally your opinion Mar 09 17:40:55 I bought the e90 for 900$ back then on 1st release Mar 09 17:41:39 Or maybe 600$ converted to local currency which equals 900000 LL Mar 09 17:41:52 Hm cannot remember Mar 09 17:42:03 i like it some bugs but works well as a phone not bad at all. I feel like its well worth the price Mar 09 17:42:11 will only get better with software updates Mar 09 17:42:39 serp_: yeah promising device indeed Mar 09 17:43:11 serp_: glad to hear the experience has been generally positive so far Mar 09 17:43:27 it is my main device Mar 09 17:43:40 and I have not been missing anything from a candybar style phone Mar 09 17:43:51 serp_: so when will you dual boot! Mar 09 17:44:11 once someone succesfully works out the bugs Mar 09 17:44:16 i have no desire to brick the device :) Mar 09 17:44:36 Between any cloud service specific for gemini Mar 09 17:47:04 Large Magellanic Cloud, perhaps? (bad astronomy joke) Mar 09 17:48:11 So why the name gemini! Mar 09 17:48:22 Why not aries Mar 09 17:48:29 Or virgo Mar 09 17:49:05 maybe because it's got two parts to it? Mar 09 17:50:30 Make sense Mar 09 17:51:14 only a guess...I don't like the name to be honest Mar 09 17:51:31 Bbl daughter want to go out Mar 09 19:26:06 steve-marinos: maybe it's after gemini space program.. next phone will be apollo? Mar 09 19:26:48 cos- I did relate the gemini to horoscope since it is Planet Computers Mar 09 19:27:33 but yeah also a space program is planet relate too Mar 09 20:03:48 btw who is like, the most interested in all things gemini Mar 09 20:05:24 everyone Mar 09 20:05:38 no but really Mar 09 20:05:56 i am Mar 09 20:06:09 in what way? Mar 09 20:06:15 i'm a qwerty maniac Mar 09 20:06:34 i decided in 2007 to only use qwerty and it's held until now Mar 09 20:06:37 ok, i mean, in like the gemini community Mar 09 20:06:48 basically i'm looking who's interested in being a mod on the subreddit Mar 09 20:09:17 I subscribe to that subreddit and would be willing. Mar 09 20:09:30 kind of wish it had gotten more action instead of that other forum Mar 09 20:09:43 i mean, it's easy to understand why it hasn't Mar 09 20:10:11 the gemini is a nostalgia project for all the psion folk, and they're a bit too ancient for reddit, forums more their style Mar 09 20:10:23 heh, yeah, I was going to say: fogies? Mar 09 20:11:26 reddit is a forum Mar 09 20:11:56 saying things like that is liable to get you labeled as a fogy yourself :D Mar 09 20:11:57 and much better than the old style forums Mar 09 20:12:20 i laugh inside everytime i see somebody call gemini nostalgia Mar 09 20:12:35 i mean, that's what the marketing was Mar 09 20:12:50 "you liked the psion? want a new one running android/linux on vaguely modern hardware? give us money!" Mar 09 20:13:30 the thing that people want is the qwerty Mar 09 20:13:40 yes, that's why i backed it Mar 09 20:13:57 but the marketing was all psion psion everywhere, every article about it etc Mar 09 20:14:04 you can't deny that Mar 09 20:14:15 well, the Psion keyboard is something they would want to harp on about Mar 09 20:14:28 there have been devices with various shitty keyboards over the years Mar 09 20:15:04 there have also been devices with good keyboards Mar 09 20:16:09 at any rate, I backed it as soon as I saw 'modern' device + clamshell/psion-keyboard Mar 09 20:16:24 about a year ago now :| Mar 09 20:17:26 though my last phone that wasn't full touchscreen was admittedly a nokia, the e66. that wasn't qwerty mind you Mar 09 20:17:43 Gemini does not remind me of Psion, i never knew about Psion until i found grmini Mar 09 20:18:03 gemini I said Mar 09 20:19:38 what attracted me was keyboard linux combo, got a sound of N900 inside my head Mar 09 20:20:24 funny thing was when i backed it last march, i was full time linux only on my pc for about 3 years by then Mar 09 20:20:37 but then in september i got a new job and have to run stupid windows for certain software for the job Mar 09 20:20:51 and hardware, i should mention Mar 09 20:21:03 which has no linux drivers etc Mar 09 20:21:09 so i'm stuck with ms again for a while Mar 09 20:21:20 i've grown to tolerate it but man, it's frustrating at times Mar 09 20:23:32 I never really was a full linux user myself, but everything attracts me about it, probably the freedom I feel, and also was never a big fan of windows either, even though I used to install them since windows 98 as I used to work in a PC store Mar 09 20:24:11 i wouldn't recommend it to most people, to really get a good time of it you have to spend a lot of time tweaking, breaking reverting, tweaking more etc Mar 09 20:24:18 takes a lot of patience, and you have to find that enjoyable Mar 09 20:24:27 but if you do, you can have a much better user experience in the end Mar 09 20:24:28 even I did install windows 95 for the less specs computers Mar 09 20:25:29 I did try days ago to mess around with batch linux :) and I stopped while I was about to install Xorg Mar 09 20:25:31 :D Mar 09 20:25:40 arch I said Mar 09 20:25:55 this phoking autocorrect is killing me Mar 09 20:25:57 lol Mar 09 20:26:33 yes, arch was what i used Mar 09 20:26:41 it was quite amazing, once you tuned it Mar 09 20:27:05 and disc Mar 09 20:27:07 total boot time from power button to full desktop ready to go was 10.8 seconds, of which about 8.9s was the bios... Mar 09 20:27:31 that's what i miss the most, windows is too slow to start Mar 09 20:27:45 especially since the current pc is higher spec, that's stupid Mar 09 20:27:50 OS X is doing great for me Mar 09 20:28:21 i tried it once Mar 09 20:28:32 spent a quarter hour trying to copy some photos off a usb stick Mar 09 20:28:34 gave up Mar 09 20:28:35 ;D Mar 09 20:28:40 steve-marinos: pho king! great pho or greatest pho? Mar 09 20:29:05 it is a phok Mar 09 20:29:12 you know family guy Mar 09 20:29:19 speaking french Mar 09 20:29:35 sick twisted phoque Mar 09 20:29:38 :D Mar 09 20:29:54 ugly phoquing bitch Mar 09 20:30:33 wait i'll find it for you Mar 09 20:30:38 the youtube i mean Mar 09 20:30:40 * echicken tries to remember if a phoque is a seal or something else Mar 09 20:30:54 yes, a seal Mar 09 20:31:03 DryEagle, true things can get frustrating on OS X Mar 09 20:31:13 echicken, nailed it :D Mar 09 20:32:00 akik, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nSc9ykewTY Mar 09 20:32:13 well, I had to study French in school for ~10 years, so I guess it hasn't all evaporated Mar 09 20:32:16 and if any want to take a break Mar 09 20:32:34 echicken, watch the youtube Mar 09 20:32:50 phoque :) Mar 09 20:33:02 akik, there you go :D Mar 09 20:33:45 lol that's a good video Mar 09 20:34:15 now you know what I mean by phoking Mar 09 20:34:33 tres drole Mar 09 20:34:34 should type it with a Q though Mar 09 20:34:51 non echicken c'etas formidable Mar 09 20:34:54 c'etas Mar 09 20:35:01 c'etais Mar 09 20:35:05 damn .... Mar 09 20:35:08 argh Mar 09 20:35:19 stop tempering with my words Mar 09 20:35:21 lol Mar 09 20:35:42 echicken, between I know french nearly as much as english Mar 09 20:36:24 steve-marinos (IRC): problem is, apple is turning into google with a nicer paint job. they want to control your computer. and their software has become as buggy as msft. Mar 09 20:37:57 depscribe[m], lets say lately am no longer that apple fan as i used to be Mar 09 20:38:18 this is why am still stuck with a pretty old version of Iphone Mar 09 20:38:32 while I used to switch to a new device as soon as it came out Mar 09 20:40:02 steve-marinos (IRC): i actually enjoyed ios -- right through 9.3.5. then they decided they knew more about how i wanted to do things than i did. and with apple there's no going back. Mar 09 20:40:41 i actually got my very first ios device last month, after firmly staying away from them my whole life Mar 09 20:40:50 ipad mini 2, cause there was a new one going real cheap and i thought i'd try it Mar 09 20:41:24 gotta say the hardware quality is pretty outstanding, and it does what i expected it to do. ui is poorly designed in places (lack of a back button especially is a killer) but overall it's fully functional Mar 09 20:41:56 IOS lately been buggy as hell Mar 09 20:42:11 never seen IOS this bad even with its earlier versions Mar 09 20:43:15 and overtime I am stating to notice that the mini versions of the iPad are having screen issues Mar 09 20:43:33 that I never seen on the full ones Mar 09 20:43:53 I have 4 iPads 2-4 mini 2-3 Mar 09 20:44:24 the 2 and 4 full never had screen issues even when cracked the touch worked no problems at all Mar 09 20:44:32 i loved the mini 2. and with the kensington keyboard-case, it was a fair qwerty setup, too. but yes, as steve-marinos says, ios is now really buggy. and slow on old hardware. and on the mini 2 requires a mechanical switch where once a swipe would do. and the user gets no choice. Mar 09 20:45:07 both the mini 2-3 had screen issues identical Mar 09 20:45:34 steve-marinos (IRC): i'm lucky, i've never broken mine. i leave that to apple. Mar 09 20:45:36 where the screen turn grayish "like old pcs with no VGA card" with stripes Mar 09 20:45:55 like, my #1 gripe with it so far is that the only way to see the battery % is to swipe down the entire notification pane Mar 09 20:45:56 greyish i said Mar 09 20:46:40 let me rephrase my quotation with no VGA drivers Mar 09 20:47:50 steve-marinos (IRC): ugh. i have an old power mac tube monitor that does that, in a closet someplace. anyway, it was apple and the promise of linux that brought me to gemini. Mar 09 20:47:57 now one of them worked with a workaround and still going the mini2, while the other one i had to change the screen and then in the bottom the touch stopped completely Mar 09 20:48:15 I wonder how would PearPC work on Gemini to emulate old PowerVR OS X :) Mar 09 20:48:23 *PowerPC Mar 09 20:49:23 TheKit you are full of surprises and your knowledge exceed mine " hats off" Mar 09 20:49:58 nah, that was a random thought, and it actually lacks JIT compiler for ARM, so going to be painfully slow (people tried on Raspberry Pi) Mar 09 20:51:07 TheKit (IRC): interesting question. i was slightly involved in the effort to port OS/2 to the power pc. went nowhere and IBM dropped OS/2 except for automated teller machines. Mar 09 20:51:43 My only wish was if I learned languages instead of repairing computers and getting stock with troubleshooting windows Mar 09 20:52:03 stuck I said Mar 09 20:52:12 Do it, i switched from net/sysadmin to dev 15 years ago Mar 09 20:53:02 WorkingClassDev, not that easy mate I have a full time job and barely managing small tech stuff at home Mar 09 20:53:34 I was skint, no unix admin work where i was so i took a junior dev role Mar 09 20:53:43 though i did try once to learn python on a website Mar 09 20:54:12 i guess i always coded from basic as a kid to various bits of shell, c etc as a sysadmin Mar 09 20:54:29 I did get involved with some networking later on with sysco routers, but never really was the one who work on them Mar 09 20:54:50 and also by that time I was doing two jobs Mar 09 20:55:30 so I was a bit off to learn the way i should and I was working night shifts, so the IT usually would be at home Mar 09 20:55:48 urgh night shifts never worked for me Mar 09 20:56:07 my body literally hated me :D Mar 09 20:56:58 back then I really hd too, so I can support paying my house loan and take care of my family Mar 09 20:57:26 yea i was the same Mar 09 20:58:46 anyways I don't think it is too late to learn something new but am missing time Mar 09 20:59:20 was not the plan to get a full time job after getting retired from one and quit the second Mar 09 20:59:44 and then there is the family Mar 09 20:59:51 3 kids and a mother :D Mar 09 21:08:03 eh, i work double shifts at least one day a week, 8am-11pm. you get used to it. Mar 09 21:09:39 DryEagle, for 5 years I worked from 8:00 till 16:00, then an another work from 17:00 till 23:00 Mar 09 21:09:40 I am playing around learning to reflash Android devices in hope of making them useful. Particularly an old Nexus 7 (2012) tablet. I see reference to a community version of Sailfish for it, bur I can't find the image anywhere -- it seems the Sailfish community doesn't do repositories as I know them. Anyone know where I might d/l an image? (Would like to play with a version of Sailfish and learn a little more about it, Mar 09 21:09:41 too.) Mar 09 21:10:04 have you checked on xda? Mar 09 21:10:31 depscribe[m], try asking at #sailfishos Mar 09 21:11:08 DryEagle (IRC): Yup. I'll go back and look some more. Mar 09 21:11:29 depscribe[m], and I believe this one is supported on net hunter if you are interested to flash it with android Mar 09 21:11:33 steve-marinos (IRC): Good idea! Mar 09 21:11:54 Guess you need CM not sure what version Mar 09 21:12:07 so root install custom rom and then flash net hunter Mar 09 21:12:19 cm? Mar 09 21:12:30 cynamogen Mar 09 21:12:31 matey that is long gone, it's lineage now, for over a year Mar 09 21:12:52 yeah but am not sure if his device is supported by lineage Mar 09 21:13:01 he can check Mar 09 21:13:51 if it isn't, it's time to throw it out Mar 09 21:14:14 i wouldn't possibly recommend using something that you can't put an up to date rom on Mar 09 21:14:38 DryEagle, i was also disappointed when I seen my Note4 samsung is not also Mar 09 21:15:00 DryEagle, if it is stable it would work Mar 09 21:15:12 even their nighty were stable enough Mar 09 21:15:22 no, but that doesn't help the main problem, which i can sum up in 2 words: security patches Mar 09 21:15:42 if you are running a device with years of unpatched vulnerabilities, in this day and age, you are muy loco Mar 09 21:16:25 DryEagle, depends on usage I guess Mar 09 21:16:45 by that i mean if it is for testing and trying reasons he can try it Mar 09 21:16:50 well, that is true. if you can say "no" to "does the device connect to the internet or mobile networks" then it's fine Mar 09 21:17:13 like i do sometimes with older devices like the M8 and the s4 Mar 09 21:17:40 but to be fairly honest I never thought to use these on a proper device Mar 09 21:17:46 a daily driver Mar 09 21:17:58 for the reason you mentioned earlier Mar 09 21:19:19 this is why i am looking for a cheap tablet that might support linux Mar 09 21:19:24 just to mess with it :D Mar 09 21:25:34 describe[m]: yes, see what I did there ? Got you thinking about other things than the touchy subject ... Mar 09 21:27:35 just for a second at least Mar 09 21:43:48 depscribe[m] xda developers has a thread about it, first thing to show up on google. You need to "flash" twice. Once CM11 and then the SFOS base on top. Mar 09 21:46:32 greguu (IRC): yup. it appears there is a lineage os version i can flash and then a sailfish build that sorta kinda works a little. probably enough for me to get a little feel for it -- otherwise, how can i complain when all the stuff i liked is missing from sailfishos 3.0? Mar 09 21:47:00 don't worry, complaining is not one of your weak points :) Mar 09 21:47:49 greguu (IRC): we all need to be good at something. Mar 09 21:49:58 I guess some of us have to catch up with you... Mar 09 21:59:10 DaPol2 you have a Jelly Pro? Is the battery life actually good enough for it to be useable? I was interested but the battery seems to be terrible Mar 09 22:00:36 I'm looking forward to a sailfish feature phone (not interested in using gemini as a phone)... Mar 09 22:48:44 steve-marinos: btw, we late backers have to exercise patience. 6xxx seems to be pushed into at least May now. 4xxx will be late April. Mar 09 22:54:51 greguu where did you get the dates? Mar 09 22:56:19 from the japanese BBS "Based on a backer ID of 44xx, I would think your unit would fall into the end of April production run" Robin Mar 09 23:00:22 Ah Mar 09 23:00:27 Cool thanks Mar 09 23:02:08 $2 mill. is reached Mar 09 23:23:00 somebody with order number 2306 got confirmation for production date at the end of march (+ delivery few weeks) Mar 09 23:23:08 i'm probably in that same batch Mar 09 23:25:07 I hope I get mine before mid May Mar 09 23:25:17 Going abroad in mid May :/ Mar 09 23:48:00 26xx, and going abroad mid May, too ;) Mar 10 01:57:45 i wonder if i'm the only person here in this hemiphere. though at the moment i'm the only one here, period. Mar 10 02:04:09 Aus? Mar 10 02:46:46 potate: nope, ohio usa. Mar 10 02:47:12 anayone else seeing random restart with gemini? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 10 03:00:03 2018