**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 14 03:00:02 2018
Mar 14 09:34:33 * jeffers[m] sent a long message: jeffers[m]_2018-03-14_09:34:32.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/cGrrfwFDtrnrCtcslHaOSmhh>
Mar 14 10:32:16 <regtools> :D
Mar 14 10:33:58 <varti[m]> nothing is impossible! :)
Mar 14 10:34:31 <jeffers[m]> not quite as funny as that guy who did a 1 hour rant on youtube about the FBI
Mar 14 10:41:01 <razumihin> People are silly :)
Mar 14 10:41:55 <razumihin> Things that i've learned in this indiegogo campaign seem to be that people have no idea what an indiegogo campaign is when they put money in it, and people have no idea how hardware is made :)
Mar 14 10:46:54 <jeffers[m]> Very true
Mar 14 10:47:24 <jeffers[m]> On the other hand, this campaign makes me appreciate the other campaigns which communicate better
Mar 14 10:48:12 <razumihin> Yeah, that is true
Mar 14 10:48:39 <jeffers[m]> One of them is a one-man effort
Mar 14 10:48:54 <jeffers[m]> His updates read like novels and he spares no details
Mar 14 10:50:09 <razumihin> Transparency is a thing that makes me value the effort more too.
Mar 14 10:50:19 <razumihin> Because you can feel like you're included in it.
Mar 14 10:51:10 <razumihin> In the PC case they seem to do quite a lot behind the scenes without disclosing it. I don't have a feeling that they're doing anything sinister, but it'd help if they had a public communications guy opening everyting up.
Mar 14 10:51:19 <jeffers[m]> Exactly. With that one, he's having delay after delay, but because of the transparency, I don't have any worries
Mar 14 10:51:57 <jeffers[m]> That's the issue. The more you don't know, the more you worry
Mar 14 10:52:01 <razumihin> I still think that if a indiegogo project finishes in double time from the original estimate it's a success as people are very bad at evaluating time it takes to do stuff.
Mar 14 10:52:35 <razumihin> But it would help if you tell it to your backers where it went wrong.
Mar 14 10:52:59 <jeffers[m]> Oh definitely
Mar 14 10:53:35 <jeffers[m]> I guess they put November for in time for Christmas
Mar 14 10:54:12 <jeffers[m]> Hilariously over-optimistic!
Mar 14 10:54:32 <razumihin> Yeah. I had no doubt that it will take at least till january to get the first batch out :)
Mar 14 10:55:15 <jeffers[m]> And production right before CNY...
Mar 14 10:55:36 <razumihin> Yup. That spells trouble with capital t :)
Mar 14 10:56:16 <razumihin> Now i kind of wish that the Nokia/HMD picks the idea and makes a gemini -kind of device that is well made.
Mar 14 10:56:30 <jeffers[m]> Someone should make a browser extension to add 6 months to all dates on IGG and Kickstarter
Mar 14 10:56:42 <jeffers[m]> ooh, that would be interesting!
Mar 14 10:56:50 <razumihin> But on the other hand sad to see PC fail as it's not that they're not trying.
Mar 14 10:56:58 <razumihin> Haha, great extension idea.
Mar 14 10:57:09 <razumihin> Modern day communicator.
Mar 14 10:57:29 <razumihin> That's what i'd pay 1000 euros for easily.
Mar 14 10:57:42 <jeffers[m]> True
Mar 14 10:58:05 <jeffers[m]> It looks like I'll be getting an X25 if what I read is true
Mar 14 10:58:41 <razumihin> Well, i would not worry about it. It's sitll a mid tier device with X27.
Mar 14 10:58:55 <razumihin> And people have had quite positive views of the battery life on the thing.
Mar 14 10:59:39 <jeffers[m]> Oh, I don't have much to worry about, as long as the keyboard is ok, I'm fine
Mar 14 10:59:54 <razumihin> Yeah, that the main point of the device and if it sucks i will be sad.
Mar 14 11:00:17 <razumihin> As the other choice is GPD Pocket that has a keyboard that definetely sucks.
Mar 14 11:00:20 <jeffers[m]> I'm wondering if I'll be OK by not signing into Google
Mar 14 11:00:25 <razumihin> (Trackpoint is super great though)
Mar 14 11:00:43 <jeffers[m]> Yeah, looks horrible
Mar 14 11:00:53 <razumihin> I had one, didn't like it and sold if off.
Mar 14 11:01:03 <razumihin> And if you think that there are hardware issues in gemini...
Mar 14 11:01:21 <jeffers[m]> haha
Mar 14 11:01:30 <razumihin> Like, you had to dissassemble the thermal system to get it to stay on.
Mar 14 11:01:44 <jeffers[m]> Oh dear
Mar 14 11:01:59 <razumihin> And it wasn't even the backer model, but the second gen end product.
Mar 14 11:02:27 <jeffers[m]> I've seen quite a few online
Mar 14 11:04:10 <razumihin> but yeah, i hate that there are no choices for super small laptop/phone thingies on the market.
Mar 14 11:04:56 <jeffers[m]> Exactly
Mar 14 11:05:00 <razumihin> I should ask around are there some sharp zaurus kind of devices in japan.
Mar 14 11:05:16 <jeffers[m]> I have a tiny sony vaio p series, I'm going to sell it off
Mar 14 11:05:17 <jeffers[m]> I'm in Japan
Mar 14 11:05:24 <razumihin> But I'm pretty sure even japanese market is devoid of interesting devices with keyboards.
Mar 14 11:05:40 <jeffers[m]> I haven't seen anything similar recently
Mar 14 11:05:51 <razumihin> Oh, is it those 11" or whatever sized thingies?
Mar 14 11:06:31 <jeffers[m]> hmm
Mar 14 11:06:38 <jeffers[m]> I see a lot of businessmen with smallish panasonic notebooks
Mar 14 11:06:45 <jeffers[m]> maybe around 11"
Mar 14 11:07:03 <razumihin> Yeah, there were lot's of those in the stores last time I was in japan.
Mar 14 11:07:31 <jeffers[m]> https://panasonic.biz/cns/pc/prod/note/rz/
Mar 14 11:07:32 <razumihin> But i'd like something gemini sized :)
Mar 14 11:07:58 <razumihin> Yeah, that's macbook sized.
Mar 14 11:08:15 <jeffers[m]> Really pricey though
Mar 14 11:08:40 <razumihin> Well, in japan people seem to be okay with buying small expensive electronics.
Mar 14 11:09:27 <jeffers[m]> True. Though the vast majority of those units will be company purchases, so nobody cares
Mar 14 11:09:32 <razumihin> Yeah.
Mar 14 11:09:37 <jeffers[m]> They look great
Mar 14 11:09:54 <razumihin> The small macbook seems to be pretty popular with people associated with japan that i know.
Mar 14 11:10:41 <jeffers[m]> Japan loves brands
Mar 14 20:37:51 <steve-marinos> Hey peeps, an another unsatisfied backer receive his device with keyboard issue, this is getting ridiculous to be honest, and it worries me, 1st batch of backers are receiving the hits and PC stayed quiet with their latest update with a factory apology and not them, no compensation for the very early backers who will receive their units with an outdated CPU, Linux so far is not really supported and most importantly of what makes this device what it
Mar 14 20:37:51 <steve-marinos> is "the keyboard" which is their selling point and so far not so good on any claims, QC should be addressed and better handled by PC
Mar 14 20:38:34 <steve-marinos> https://www.facebook.com/groups/1774620199505688/permalink/1807786566189051/
Mar 14 20:40:33 <steve-marinos> as if everything is half worked, or something to look for but not there yet
Mar 14 20:53:02 <potate[m]> this is what worried me when they showed their video of 'testing' the geminis being built
Mar 14 20:53:06 <potate[m]> all their workers did was swipe the screen
Mar 14 20:53:11 <potate[m]> they never touched the keyboard once
Mar 14 21:02:39 <steve-marinos> potate[m], you would expect from a device to be productive on the go that the minimum to be tested and well focused on is the keyboard
Mar 14 21:03:06 <steve-marinos> if they messed with their biggest claim than fuck we're screwed
Mar 14 21:03:12 <steve-marinos> then
Mar 14 21:03:59 <steve-marinos> I was trying to be positive most of the other times but this is getting seriously ridiculous
Mar 14 21:04:35 <steve-marinos> it is so far less than a standard in general
Mar 14 21:04:56 <steve-marinos> and the way PC is not dealing with this talking on the moral side is also worrying
Mar 14 21:05:04 <potate[m]> but you know how it is, the unhappy folk will always shout the loudest
Mar 14 21:05:12 <potate[m]> Yeah there's that too
Mar 14 21:06:09 <steve-marinos> I sent robin a message the other day with a congratulation and the way they are not handling the good will part so good
Mar 14 21:06:17 <steve-marinos> all i got was a thank you
Mar 14 21:06:37 <steve-marinos> and worse part in their last update it was the factory who apologized
Mar 14 21:06:47 <steve-marinos> not even one hint of apology by PC
Mar 14 21:07:33 <steve-marinos> and then they confirm a first batch with CPU X25 because it was the one intended in the 1st place
Mar 14 21:07:50 <potate[m]> PC most likely trying to save face
Mar 14 21:07:53 <steve-marinos> no compensation and no real show of good will
Mar 14 21:07:58 * Kero senses Big Company habits.
Mar 14 21:08:34 <steve-marinos> Kero, well not even to standard level if you ask me mate
Mar 14 21:09:06 <steve-marinos> am starting to get so disappointed and i haven't receive my device yet
Mar 14 21:11:15 <Kero> c'mon. Robin does the communication and is clearly overwhelmed. I bet that is because he continuously allows a communication backlog to exist, but hey. Not everyone read Getting Things Done.
Mar 14 21:11:51 <Kero> If you've heard from company lawyers that apologizing is in fact admitting a mistake and will get you sued...
Mar 14 21:12:18 <steve-marinos> Kero, there is always a way to show good will
Mar 14 21:12:21 <Kero> ...long enough, then you don't apologize. Just like not telling what is going on is typical for big companies
Mar 14 21:12:32 <steve-marinos> at least for the ones that kickstarted this project
Mar 14 21:12:40 <potate[m]> Saving face is rather important for any company to succeed
Mar 14 21:13:04 <potate[m]> Unless you're big enough already
Mar 14 21:13:13 <potate[m]> Sony can apologise as many times as they want for their fuck ups with the playstation
Mar 14 21:13:38 <potate[m]> I don't see companies like Apply apologising for shit
Mar 14 21:13:39 <potate[m]> Apple
Mar 14 21:13:49 <Kero> I hear you steve-marinos, just don't be disappointed before you get your Gemini ;)
Mar 14 21:14:00 <potate[m]> They already tell you to pay them money to replace your battery because your device is slower than a rock
Mar 14 21:14:09 <Kero> or if you are, be disappointed about the lack of communication ;)
Mar 14 21:14:32 <steve-marinos> Kero, it is the way PC is dealing with this whole thing
Mar 14 21:14:59 <steve-marinos> and by the way not all big companies act like apple
Mar 14 21:15:11 <steve-marinos> look at samsung when they fucked up with note 7
Mar 14 21:15:18 <potate[m]> I know
Mar 14 21:15:28 <steve-marinos> the ones that had it got a nice discount on their note 8
Mar 14 21:15:44 <steve-marinos> it is good will that matters
Mar 14 21:15:48 <potate[m]> Samsung have to eat their mistake because it will mess them up badly
Mar 14 21:15:59 <potate[m]> No amount of trying to talk out of it would've helped them
Mar 14 21:16:13 <potate[m]> I'm sure they never wanted to recall the Note 7
Mar 14 21:16:24 <steve-marinos> so there is always a way beside saying am sorry we fucked up
Mar 14 21:16:39 <potate[m]> Samsung severely fucked up though
Mar 14 21:16:48 <potate[m]> PC need to do something extremely bad for them to apologise I think
Mar 14 21:17:32 <potate[m]> There are units that work but there's also units that have terrible QC
Mar 14 21:17:53 <steve-marinos> seriously it is not an apology that matters, any word that beside the CPU thingy and compass and QC what else did i miss it is a whole device
Mar 14 21:17:57 <potate[m]> I'm not saying what they are doing is right but just trying to look at it from their perspective
Mar 14 21:18:23 <potate[m]> There's no compass on the Gemini
Mar 14 21:18:31 <steve-marinos> potate[m], i was until I see more and more QC issues and trying to be in the shoes of the early backers
Mar 14 21:18:45 <potate[m]> http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Troubleshooting
Mar 14 21:18:46 <steve-marinos> potate[m], true but the specs said there is
Mar 14 21:19:00 <potate[m]> I asked Robin about that
Mar 14 21:19:03 <steve-marinos> and then later on Robin had to clarify that
Mar 14 21:19:15 <potate[m]> He told me they can't change the IGG page for some reason
Mar 14 21:19:22 <potate[m]> They are speaking with IGG about it to resolve it
Mar 14 21:19:27 <potate[m]> I don't know if that's bullshit
Mar 14 21:19:45 <steve-marinos> potate[m], probably for advertisement
Mar 14 21:20:30 <steve-marinos> i am now sure that this is/was my 1st and last crowd funding backing
Mar 14 21:21:00 <potate[m]> All crowd funded things are an investment
Mar 14 21:21:13 <steve-marinos> I'll wait for a retail version and tons of reviews before I make a step like i do with any device i want to buy usually
Mar 14 21:21:15 <potate[m]> Some do work out and some never see production
Mar 14 21:21:46 <potate[m]> Yeah, most backer devices I've seen are usually 'beta testers'
Mar 14 21:22:12 <potate[m]> I remember when the GPD Win came out, a shed load of issues on early models
Mar 14 21:22:25 <potate[m]> They managed to sort some issues out after like 4 revisions
Mar 14 21:22:56 <steve-marinos> potate[m], so they should call early backers, early beta testers :)
Mar 14 21:23:42 <potate[m]> Pretty much
Mar 14 21:23:55 <potate[m]> It's definitely a crappy process but it is what it is
Mar 14 21:23:57 <steve-marinos> FFS a productivity on the go device with tons of keyboard issues this is less than standard
Mar 14 21:24:03 <Kero> tell that to IGG?
Mar 14 21:24:18 <potate[m]> Are IGG able to assist with it?
Mar 14 21:24:37 <Kero> no, tell IGG that it is "early alpha/beta testers" ;)
Mar 14 21:24:38 <potate[m]> Have the backers with issue reached out with PC?
Mar 14 21:25:06 <steve-marinos> potate[m], am positive it did
Mar 14 21:25:39 <steve-marinos> probably each backer with issue have already emailed PC
Mar 14 21:25:50 <steve-marinos> am sure I would have
Mar 14 21:26:25 <potate[m]> If I get my unit and have issues, I'll definitely reach out to PC
Mar 14 21:26:33 <steve-marinos> Kero, now i know what it is with IGG so it was just a talk amongst us
Mar 14 21:26:39 <potate[m]> Will keep you guys posted if that happens
Mar 14 21:27:12 <steve-marinos> potate[m], lest hope after the 1st batch PC will work better on QC the least they can do
Mar 14 21:27:18 <steve-marinos> lets
Mar 14 21:28:20 <potate[m]> I'm hoping for that but my expectations are rock bottom right now
Mar 14 21:29:28 <steve-marinos> well lets wait and see and only hope for the best while expecting the worst :D
Mar 14 21:29:40 <potate[m]> Agreed
Mar 14 21:30:45 * Kero will be in the end-of-march run, from all that's being said.
Mar 14 21:31:12 <Kero> and yes, hoping for a perfect piece of HW ;)
Mar 14 21:31:14 <steve-marinos> Kero, guess am at the end of april
Mar 14 21:31:50 <steve-marinos> beta tester 64**
Mar 14 21:31:54 <steve-marinos> :D
Mar 14 21:35:46 * potate[m] sent a long message: potate[m]_2018-03-14_21:35:45.txt <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/eKvrwiNeMHngjItdWPjaPzsc>
Mar 14 21:38:08 <steve-marinos> potate[m], yeah i seen it
Mar 14 21:50:02 <depscribe[m]> And those between 3000 and 4720 are apparently in gemini limbo.
Mar 14 21:58:58 <Kero> nah, "up to" (but I misread it, too)
Mar 14 22:00:03 <potate[m]> I'm in the early 4k category, limbo for me it is :(
Mar 14 22:25:41 <depscribe[m]> potate: 3968 -- me, too, dammit. and given the reliability of PC's estimates, this means we'll have ours by autumn if we're lucky.
Mar 14 22:28:05 <depscribe[m]> TheKit : am toying with the idea of fiddling with the "technology preview" and am wondering if i could get it to run on my linux desktop via qemu, virtual box, or something. you being a kind of human encyclopedia on this stuff, do you know if this is possible?
Mar 14 22:50:03 <androvex[m]> Ok so waiting till April then, S'ok by me. Means Debian and Sailfish should be ready by then :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 15 03:00:01 2018