**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 26 03:00:03 2018 Mar 26 07:57:03 DaPol2: sailfish would be the way to go then (not sure if it's considered "linux" or not) Mar 26 11:14:29 Urgh, The kernel was uploaded without the git history back to upstream android-linux. So one has to manually work out exactly which commit it was forked from and then diff it yourself Mar 26 11:14:52 It's possible Gemini got it from Mediatek in this form Mar 26 12:17:03 g3mini[m]: there is slightly more history available from https://github.com/NotKit/kernel-3.18-alps-x600 (plus a couple of new things) Mar 26 12:34:51 thanks, but it seems the only history is from after the mediatek changes. Which suggests mediatek did not preserve the git log Mar 26 12:38:01 i bet there is a tool to find git commit with least difference to given source. or at least one could be made quite easily. Mar 26 12:54:57 g3mini[m]: there was one change 'Import changes...' that is from another drop from planet, so at least rolling that back would give you a closer match to upstream? Mar 26 13:11:33 adam_b, no large changes there, so not really helpful Mar 26 13:18:11 Well, looks like "Use Gemini as daily driver" just became more important Mar 26 13:18:18 Dropped KeyOne, screen popped out. Mar 26 13:18:47 * g3mini[m] sent a long message: g3mini[m]_2018-03-26_13:18:45.txt Mar 26 13:19:30 It used to do a horrible job of technical chinese Mar 26 13:20:11 I'll consdier it "finished" when it can interpret technical Chinglish as typically included on the instruction leaflet with no-name consumer electronics Mar 26 13:21:29 my gemini's now 9 days late, hermes last updated it's state 24.3 Mar 26 13:21:51 that's a little bit out of scope, besides, native bilingual people have no idea what that stuff says Mar 26 13:24:09 g3mini[m]: Indeed - I'm just hoping the gozilla of computing that is Google had some unique insight that I'd missed over the years Mar 26 13:25:25 "Take slot a into tab omega while right is down with Darmok and Jalad, at Tanagra Mar 26 13:25:43 it's really weird reading code that comes out of China when they'll partly add comments in English (not talking about this code), but other comments will for some reason be in Chinese. Sometimes even within the same function. Plus, the rest of the kernel is of course in English... Mar 26 13:26:23 DaPol2: well that just sounds like they need to work out which version of Google Translate would produce that output, and then look in the log for what the original input was ;P Mar 26 13:27:36 It's been many many years, but I did once get told to "Make sure the function names mean something" Mar 26 13:29:04 At no point did they tell me to whom it had to mean something. Mar 26 13:29:08 That wasn't a happy work place. Mar 26 13:29:28 Even less happy when they discovered functions called "nuQneH" and "Qapla" Mar 26 13:30:16 well i mean, were you writing code for klingons? Mar 26 13:30:20 "In your native language dammit" Mar 26 13:30:34 Was not a better instruction. They'd made an assumption about what my native language was. Mar 26 13:30:52 I'm Scottish, from Glasgow. My *native* language is Scots, not English Mar 26 13:32:02 And yes, I was getting pissy - thoroughly unhappy employment, and them firing me was better from a few points of view than quitting Mar 26 13:32:40 I wasn't a programmer. I was a sysadmin. Mar 26 13:45:06 Sounds like a fantastic game, trying to get fired but in the most delicate manner :) Mar 26 13:46:20 you've heard of "Constructive dismissal" where the employer makes the work situation so unpleasant the employee quits? This is Constructive Resignation - make the employers life so difficult (without actually committing misconduct) that they want rid of you. Mar 26 13:46:55 Although my first move to contracting was the result of calling the bluff of the IT director of the company who had just bought mine. Mar 26 13:47:22 Suffice to say they'd dropped pay and made terms worse, and laid off 32 of my colleauges, expecting me to pick up the slack, and wouldn't make me redundant. Mar 26 13:47:36 "I can get a contract onf 4 times what you're paying me" "GO on then" Mar 26 13:47:46 Next day was a trip into HR to go "How do I resign?" Mar 26 13:48:12 :) Mar 26 13:48:22 I'm told my resignation letter was on the group HR wall for over a decade after that as an example of "strangest and bluntest resignation ever" Mar 26 13:49:20 including full details of *why* I was resigning, including the behaviour of this IT director, and the phrases "My congratulations to your company on becoming as flexible as $CEO wanted. It's the only conceivable way your management can get their heads *that* far up their own arses" Mar 26 13:50:32 Is also the only time I've ever been offered sex to stay with a company by the (rather cute) head of HR who'd just seen about 800 of a workforce of 1200 fired, and she'd been told she was doing the firing at the next acquisition Mar 26 13:53:05 That's a pretty uncommon methdod to keep people in the company :D Mar 26 13:54:27 She had just seen a lot of her friends fired, and wasn't keen to lose that many more of the previous worksforce. Mar 26 13:55:22 Still started with a Telco the following monday Mar 26 13:55:39 The IT director got demoted several levels and was put under one of his previous underlings Mar 26 13:56:31 Did the company survive at all in the end? Mar 26 13:57:34 razumihin: The original company? No. Fully absorbed in about 18 months. Mar 26 13:58:02 Yeah, sounds like a merger where they just want to buy the company resources. Mar 26 13:58:06 The combined company - more or less - it's still around, but in a different form Mar 26 13:58:32 razumihin: Specifically, they wanted the productset and the development team behind it - sales, marketing, support, international distribution - not so much Mar 26 13:58:40 They wanted to kill the US presence as that was their home market Mar 26 13:59:53 The company being bought was Dr Solomon's Software, the company doing the buying was Network Associates Inc, who are now McAfee (they were the result of a merger between McAfee and Network General back in the day) Mar 26 14:01:53 I remember hearing that name in the late 90's or so? So quite a long ago i guess. Mar 26 14:03:01 Yeah - this was mid 1998 Mar 26 14:03:37 including full details of *why* I was resigning, including the behaviour of this IT director, and the phrases "My congratulations to your company on becoming as flexible as $CEO wanted. It's the only conceivable way your management can get their heads *that* far up their own arses" Mar 26 14:03:41 that's hilarious Mar 26 14:03:56 and oops, that was supposed to be a quote Mar 26 14:03:56 The buyout was *painful* Mar 26 14:04:11 The CEO of NAI was a bit of a "Management by buzzword" type Mar 26 14:04:17 had some favourite phrases Mar 26 14:04:25 "We need to pull together like a SEAL team" Mar 26 14:04:30 "We need to be flexible" Mar 26 14:04:43 "Life Fast, Drive Hard, Take Chances" Mar 26 14:05:36 Claimed that all sales offices had 2 swords on the wall - a Katana to reach out and cut down your opponits, a Wakazashi to disembowel yourself if you missed targets Mar 26 14:05:58 Myself and another guy were at the back doing the whooping and clapping hands thing at one point when he pulled the "SEAL team" thing Mar 26 14:06:30 We had to tell him that that meant nothing in the UK, and that we had SAS and SBS instead - he was quite literally talking about the support act for Shamu when he used that phrase in England Mar 26 14:06:49 Kill Ursefl For The Company's Profits Mar 26 14:06:56 yeah. Mar 26 14:07:03 American company. Mar 26 14:07:11 Hilarious. Mar 26 14:07:17 damn dude, you're hilarious Mar 26 14:07:51 I kind of regret being bit too young to be in the IT during the bubble years. Mar 26 14:08:02 You're talking about the guy who just led a kazoo chorus with backing from a nationally famous standup comedian at his friends funeral. My perception of appropriate may be a little skewed. Mar 26 14:08:33 The buble years were interesting for sure Mar 26 14:09:13 My personal (small) claims to fame are the implementation of the worlds first Software as a Service e-mail antivirus scanner (before anybody else had any email scanning) Mar 26 14:09:53 And completely buggering a major UK ISPs product launch of a fax to email solution that they were going to charge £15 a month for by figuring out how to do it for no subscription. Mar 26 14:10:04 I did not work for that ISP. Mar 26 14:10:19 :) Mar 26 14:10:40 Also, the worlds first full in-app software update service - a few were doing a scripted download of a zip file - only we were doing integrated into the app seamless Mar 26 14:10:59 I was responsible for all server and infrastructure components on that - client side was the app development team Mar 26 14:11:46 And the one that's come in useful recently - I've been working on an outsource and had a provider tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about because "You've never run an MS Exchange install on this scale" Mar 26 14:11:59 Which did not go anywhere good for them. Mar 26 14:12:20 "This scale" was 15k mailboxes. Mar 26 14:12:33 "Try me, why wha'ts the biggest install you've run?" Mar 26 14:12:40 Turns out that they'd run a 250k mailbox installation. Mar 26 14:13:41 I used to be the head of infrastructure for BT Internet services - I had a 1.2m mailbox Exchange install under me, and there was another system tha was mine which was the result of Tony Blair going "Everybody in the UK will have an email address" and then telling BT to make it happen. Mar 26 14:13:53 So, 20 million active mailboxes, scaled for 70 million. Mar 26 14:14:38 But yeah - bubble years were fun. Burst years were less fun. Mar 26 14:15:48 One of my jobs in that era was working for a Location Based Services company - just a little ahead of their time. Mar 26 14:16:15 This was 2000-2001 - the stuff we were working on went mainstream around 2012-2015 Mar 26 14:16:40 > https://www.facebook.com/groups/1774620199505688/permalink/1811058305861877/ John Snelgrove It’s the moment I have been waiting for since I bought my first psion Mar 26 14:16:41 Is that one of the gold ones? Looks different to the others to me? Mar 26 14:19:06 Maybe just the colour difference between the covers and the caps? Mar 26 14:58:15 hmm Mar 26 15:36:00 is oesf down? it's 504ing here. Mar 26 15:42:36 https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/oesf.org Mar 26 16:01:43 echicken (IRC): so, then, yes. Mar 26 18:32:11 oesf.org is back online Mar 26 18:35:25 why was it down? Mar 26 18:35:47 oops Mar 26 18:40:42 dont know... maybe varti knows something? Mar 26 18:54:45 Still down by the looks of it... Mar 26 18:54:58 for me its on o.o Mar 26 18:56:55 devyl: Was trying https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/oesf.org to check and it thinks it's down too...unless it's only serving certain IP ranges.... Mar 26 18:57:26 maybe thats it... in germany i can browse on the oesf.org forum Mar 26 18:58:36 works for me too in finland Mar 26 19:00:40 I think the problem is DNS-based....it ain't resolving to an IP. Maybe it's becoming self-aware! The SkyNet is falling! Mar 26 19:02:38 I for one, welcome our new AI overlords... Mar 26 19:08:04 xD Mar 26 19:15:59 tesla is skynet Mar 26 19:16:08 or is it uber Mar 26 19:53:14 Traceroute it see if it is something along the way Mar 26 19:56:33 I am able to access oesf.org. Mar 26 19:59:38 here too Mar 26 19:59:49 am able to access www.oesf.org Mar 26 21:31:01 good news, got Bluetooth working on Sailfish/Debian, at least for things like BT mouse/keyboard and file transfer Mar 26 21:37:38 there's already a sailfish image? Mar 26 21:38:41 NotKit, that is awsome mate Mar 26 21:38:52 slow and steady progress Mar 26 21:39:10 meanwhile it seems next batch is gonna be delayed as I see Mar 26 21:39:24 :( Mar 26 21:39:43 I've been trying to motivate devs to come and help Mar 26 21:40:02 I hope some or a couple at least could offered you help NotKit Mar 26 21:40:20 NotKit: Which Sailfish version is it ? Mar 26 21:40:29 androvex[m], I believe 2 Mar 26 21:40:30 akik, not in public yet, but I'm going to fix some things and release community build Mar 26 21:40:39 2.1.3.7, yes Mar 26 21:40:53 version 3 is not yet released Mar 26 21:41:38 NotKit, did you manage to use the libhybris ? Mar 26 21:41:45 great Mar 26 21:42:32 ok.. just curious.. Mar 26 21:42:39 3 is definitly in the works so.. excited to see that materialising Mar 26 21:43:13 steve-marinos, there wouldn't be any Sailfish build otherwise, as we don't have other way to support hardware, at least yet Mar 26 21:44:42 PC is just too quiet lately, and with the sailfish 3 release which suppose to support Gemini officially not sure if you can join forces with them ? Mar 26 21:45:02 NotKit, are you in direct contact with any pf PC staff Mar 26 21:46:47 just ask them to be part of the sailfish3 development since you are already working your ass for debian and sailfish Mar 26 21:46:50 yes, but I don't know much about Sailfish 3 Mar 26 21:47:41 NotKit, either you join or the way I see it no use of developing for version 2 since 3 is officially supported Mar 26 21:48:05 this way you can focus on one OS at a time Mar 26 21:48:10 SailfishOS 3 is a bit of marketing actually Mar 26 21:57:59 it's not going to break things drastically, so porting effort for current version will still apply Mar 26 21:59:54 NotKit, yeah I see what you mean mate Mar 26 22:01:01 NotKit: Did yo not see the video? Mar 26 22:01:02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnnngoFtrSQ Mar 26 22:01:14 least I can say is thank you for your hard effort with the small team working on the debian/SFOS Mar 26 22:01:28 adam and david Mar 26 22:02:27 androvex[m], it's the port I'm working on + Sailfish3 UI ported on it by Jolla Mar 26 22:02:52 androvex[m], all i can say is that TheKit[m] is being too modest mate :) Mar 26 22:03:12 Ahhh Mar 26 22:03:27 Quite :) Mar 26 22:04:15 But nice to see itrunning already onthe Gemini there.. and they have said calling and 4G work already so.. Mar 26 22:04:53 best setup SFOS/Debian boot :D Mar 26 22:06:34 steve-marinos: Snap.. that is precisely what I want to do :P Mar 26 22:06:48 I have Sailfish X already and quite liket it. Mar 26 22:07:25 I was too late to join Jolla party :) when I knew about it was already too late Mar 26 22:07:26 Got pretty much all of the apps I use on Android.. and ones that are not I can bridge with F-droid.. Mar 26 22:07:48 So I prefer Fennec as my browser.. Mar 26 22:08:41 steve-marinos: In what sense.. you can pick up a 2nd hanf Sony Xperia for under 100 sobs. . Mar 26 22:08:59 Pay 30 EU for the image and give it a test drive Mar 26 22:10:05 Oh wow.. stand corrected.. Mar 26 22:10:19 Prices has gone up.. Sailfish must have really caught on.. Mar 26 22:10:34 ok so under $200 still not too bad.. Mar 26 22:11:07 I was talking on the Jolla device and even tried turing Mar 26 22:11:28 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Open-Box-Sony-Xperia-X-F5121-5-0-32GB-LTE-Factory-Unlocked-Cellphone-Black/302684037319?hash=item46795fe0c7:g:2-oAAOSweRlauRDU Mar 26 22:11:43 cannot buy from ebay Mar 26 22:12:25 but am pretty sure I can find something here, but still now that gemini is coming i can wait and maybe get a second device for daily driver Mar 26 22:13:47 Amazon ? Mar 26 22:14:19 no I thought it was only paypal payment only Mar 26 22:14:34 seems they take credit card too Mar 26 22:14:56 either way I will check prices locally Mar 26 22:15:31 but am not really sure i'll buy one now, guess am gonna get a new daily driver next to the Gemini Mar 26 22:15:55 but haven't made my mind yet, probably a Huawei, for battery life Mar 26 22:16:46 fair enough Mar 26 22:39:50 steve-marinos: Jelly - that way you don't notice the size of the thing :) Mar 26 22:45:38 DaPol2, lol Mar 26 22:46:07 I never had an issue with the cellphone size as long at it is exciting :) Mar 26 23:28:21 https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/03/google-starts-blocking-uncertified-android-devices-from-logging-in/ Mar 26 23:28:36 Gemini-PDA may require manual registration via http://g.co/androiddeviceregistration **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 27 03:00:03 2018