**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 03 03:00:03 2018 Apr 03 11:21:38 ok i got my gemini in hand now Apr 03 11:22:20 there's a note saying that e-sim feature is not included Apr 03 11:23:13 great, congrats for your new Gemini Apr 03 11:23:15 as in it's not active for now or it's never going to be? Apr 03 11:24:00 cos-: congrats, man...but yeah I am wondering the same thing - does that mean the first batch won't support e-SIM? Apr 03 11:24:15 I have read that the eSIM specification is still being finalized Apr 03 11:26:41 it doesn't say if it's hardware or software limitation but there's no promise to support it future Apr 03 11:28:14 that's actually pretty disappointing Apr 03 11:28:26 anybody got a Czech gemini (or better eyesight than me) and know what the fn-j key is (the oesf layout png is too pixelated for me to figure it out) Apr 03 11:29:53 cos-: when did your order get "locked" at indiegogo? Apr 03 11:29:59 I suspect it might be the squashed box with ears not that I know the xkb name for it Apr 03 11:31:41 akik: what do you mean with "locked"? the backing date? Apr 03 11:32:15 cos-: yes Apr 03 11:32:39 i'm not sure if they update it now that there's the service to check the status Apr 03 11:33:09 7.3.2017 Apr 03 11:33:39 2018 ? Apr 03 11:33:49 time goes by :) Apr 03 11:34:38 you guys are talking cross purposes, backing date is when you paid, locked date is a thing inside igg where they lock you from chaning your order address just before they print labels Apr 03 11:36:54 adam_b: isn't that useful data for the end user to know when they'll print labels? Apr 03 11:37:11 adam_b: it seems to me like the double quotes, also since I can't seem to find them anywhere else on the keyboard... and they are so common that they can't be left out of any keyboard layout: https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=5923 Apr 03 11:37:54 VartiWork: thanks I'll put doublequotes people can always moan later if its wrong Apr 03 11:38:21 unfortunately, that's the quality of the images I received, I suspect they are the same files Planet sent to that backer Apr 03 11:39:14 akik: I think they still have todo that the locked state on igg, I was just pointing out that cos- was I suspect answering the other question, backing date not locking date Apr 03 11:39:57 ah ok Apr 03 11:40:17 yes i meant when it'll be changed to "order locked" Apr 03 11:40:20 adam_b: in the attached PDF the layout is a bit clearer, definitively looks like a double quote Apr 03 11:40:41 i'm 22xx and still order placed Apr 03 11:41:00 and the status service says my unit is being manufactured Apr 03 11:41:12 I thought cos- device was just lost in the post for weeks Apr 03 11:41:23 same here, although I'm 29xx Apr 03 11:48:18 yes, 7.3.2017 was backing date. how do i know the locked date? Apr 03 11:48:48 for finns: https://www.huuto.net/kohteet/gemini-pda-4g/469092775 Apr 03 11:51:14 shiiit Apr 03 11:53:44 difficult decision :-) Apr 03 11:58:32 Thousand euros :D Apr 03 11:59:10 i'm in .fi but i value the gemini much higher :) Apr 03 12:00:18 I'm not sure. If somebody would just hand me a thousand euro note or the gemini in order I might take the 1000e :) Apr 03 12:01:56 the asking price is very reasonable compared to £1700 one that went on ebay Apr 03 12:02:30 Yeah, I see that the market values it higher. Apr 03 12:02:32 fin/swe keyboard of course reduces the potential buyers Apr 03 12:03:08 But I don't really see that as a rational thing, as propably in couple of months you can get them from the manufacturer. Apr 03 12:03:26 I could wait couple of months more and win 500e. Apr 03 12:03:46 Getting a more finished product as a result. Apr 03 12:04:22 razumihin: good thinking Apr 03 12:04:54 the backers had a big role in it Apr 03 12:05:08 so that it materialized Apr 03 12:07:20 if the phone was made by nokia, i'd have been able to make the "more finnished product" joke Apr 03 14:23:23 bah - just made my first comment on the Indiegogo comments page - because some eejit was complaining why the Gemini wasn't Verizon-certified! Apr 03 14:23:56 Because Planet is a European company and the rest of the world doesn't give a shit about Verizon? Apr 03 14:23:59 L( Apr 03 14:24:00 :) Apr 03 14:24:59 yep, that's what wound me up! I hate generalisations, but US folks really do think they are the centre of the earth sometimes! Apr 03 14:26:04 I mean, asking about network-specific functionality from a startup - d'oh! Apr 03 14:26:20 And in a more reasonable response "That would have required an entirely different spin of the mainboard as the Verizon LTE bands aren't supported by this chipset, and we have to play to the majority of the possible market" Apr 03 14:28:58 DaPol2_: That was a more reasonable response ; ) I'm calming myself down now... think of little fluffy clouds! Apr 03 14:33:29 * DaPol2_ pouts and demands that his one support ISDN V120 signalling so he can dial into his Livingston PM3 remote access system! Apr 03 14:33:52 (My Nokia 9000 could do it! Why can't this much newer thing do it?!?) Apr 03 14:36:26 ...and why doesn't the Gemini support audio-coupler modems and the original Psion SSD cards?!? ; ) Apr 03 14:38:26 Although, the one thing that I suspect would make it would be a tied-to-the-hardware OPL interpreter :) Apr 03 14:41:39 DaPol2_: You're right... OPL rocked on the original Psion machines. I never got the hang of object-oriented programming, so OPL suited me to the ground. I wonder if it could be ported / recreated as a PDA language? (I'm guessing not, as it wasn't an open source language...) Apr 03 14:42:04 It got released. Apr 03 14:42:33 https://sourceforge.net/projects/opl-dev/ Apr 03 14:43:07 Unsurprisingly there doesn't seem to be an Android port. Apr 03 14:45:39 But now there's a device that deserves it :) Apr 03 14:45:59 Wow...didn't know that Noodles - will check that out, cheers Apr 03 14:48:35 aah, yes, I see...the language was released but not ported to much else outside of EPOC / Symbian... shame Apr 03 14:48:39 with wine it should be possible to run the symbian sdk (with epoc ui)... so opl would also run. Apr 03 14:51:39 devyl: I installed the EPOC emulator on my Macbook Air's Win10 bootcamp partition a few months back - and instantly transported myself back 20-odd years! I forgot how simple but usable the UI was. Apr 03 14:53:01 :) try it with wineskin... it works even better ;) Apr 03 14:54:00 if you want, i can send you my wrapper... but for the gemini maybe python (with qpython) is a better way to have a scripting language on the device Apr 03 14:54:46 "better" means "more mordern" in this case (i dont like python xD ) Apr 03 14:55:45 https://github.com/qpython-android if somebody wants to try Apr 03 14:55:46 I like python, but qpython can be slightly annoying. The version lag is sometimes very frustrating. Apr 03 14:57:20 * devyl[m] is more a c-syntax guy ^^ Apr 03 14:58:08 If I was to class myself, it'd probably be a Perl / BASH / PHP -monger! Apr 03 14:58:28 yeah ! :) Apr 03 14:59:06 was Psion running on Symbian? Apr 03 14:59:53 Although I would never consider myself as a programmer... more of a code scrapbook re-arranger ;) Apr 03 15:00:25 symbian was the successor of psion Apr 03 15:00:49 NotKit: The forerunner to Symbian... it was called EPOC. It's what Symbian was born out of... Apr 03 15:00:50 successor of epoc to be precise Apr 03 15:00:55 https://github.com/damonkohler/sl4a there is also sl4a... its somewhat outdated but there are more of less active forks Apr 03 15:01:10 check... Apr 03 15:02:37 the last incarnation of the epoc ui was nokia s90... (the nokia 7710 was a nice device... but very slow xD) Apr 03 15:03:48 devyl[m]: Assuming you rule out the various evolutions/revolutions of the S60 UI Apr 03 15:03:51 Psion -> Symbian - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/23/symbian_history_part_one_dark_star/ Apr 03 16:11:16 Anyone know what the shift-4 character on the Danish/Norwegian layout is called, its either a square with ears or a circle with four dots around it Apr 03 16:14:12 apparently its called 'currency' Apr 03 16:14:47 Yeah, generic currency fallback if you mean ¤ Apr 03 16:15:39 yep thats the one Apr 03 17:01:37 devyl[m]: Assuming you rule out the various evolutions/revolutions of the S60 UI Apr 03 17:01:38 the s60 is a different ui approach. it comes from a non touch based ux. the s90 is more or less what epoc32 was in terms of ui Apr 03 17:02:17 it was build for pen input Apr 03 19:56:44 hello humans Apr 03 19:57:08 adam_b, did a Japanese guy get in touch with you? Apr 03 20:10:07 nope, and I think you should drop your pushing it, it really dosn't matter until someone with that keyboard starts to use Debian on it Apr 03 20:10:52 (or Sailfish or UBPorts - it sounds like they'll all be using the same xkb key maps) Apr 03 20:13:42 adam_b, yeah just that a japanese guy replied to my post on FB and I told him to contact you here, guess afterwards we will see a couple of Japanese complaining about the layout, anyways if he did would be great if not let it be .. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 04 03:00:01 2018