**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Apr 17 03:00:06 2018 Apr 17 12:01:20 heh... really had to plug a link to oesf there, too :) Apr 17 12:15:21 Fuck facebook Apr 17 12:18:27 yep, it would be nice to have most discussions in some non-evil media.. matrix for example Apr 17 12:23:37 every man to his taste, I guess Apr 17 12:25:16 every man seems to hate facebook but still uses it :-) Apr 17 12:28:03 I deleted my account 6 years ago when a privacy policy changed Apr 17 12:28:57 My Gemini is getting rooted and Google services removed before I do anything else on it :) Apr 17 14:36:44 > My Gemini is getting rooted and Google services removed before I do anything else on it :) Apr 17 14:36:45 do you have a good how to for removing the google services? Apr 17 15:44:24 devyl[m]: just remove the google account from the phone Apr 17 15:44:40 devyl[m]: and install yalp store if you want to access the apps from play store Apr 17 15:46:25 akik (IRC): akik (IRC)devyl i figured on replacing the shipped android with a non-gapps lineage before connecting the gemini to either wifi or 4G. this assumes the telephony stack in lineage for geminipda is sorted by then. it seems easier and safer that trying to do a googlectomy on stock android, no? Apr 17 15:46:54 and don't allow anonymous location data collection Apr 17 15:47:12 that f'ng maps is asking to enable it Apr 17 15:47:18 depscribe[m]: telephony on lineageOS for gemini-pda would be great Apr 17 15:47:39 know who's looked into or is working on it? Apr 17 15:49:30 MonkeyofDoom (IRC): i've seen it discussed by the geminipda lineage developers on xga. Apr 17 15:51:21 https://forum.xda-developers.com/gemini-pda/development/rom-lineageos-14-1-geminipda-t3770821 Apr 17 15:55:58 thanks Apr 17 15:56:36 adam-b or TheKit would have a sense, perhaps, of what obstacles generally exist in implementation of the phone stack. i guess it can't just be pasted in from the original rom. Apr 17 16:00:14 ah how nice, the kernel repository there has 12 commits :| Apr 17 16:04:10 MonkeyofDoom (IRC): and most of us are at least a month from our geminis. Apr 17 16:05:08 Or have had them for at least a month. Apr 17 16:05:11 yeah Apr 17 16:05:35 I remain cautiously hopeful about the linux updates promised in monday's indiegogo post Apr 17 16:06:53 if telephony/4g/wifi never get figured out on Linux I might as well sell the gemini and buy whatever hardware has the most potential with postmarketOS Apr 17 16:11:15 MonkeyofDoom (IRC): lineage os seems to have wifi sorted. and of course sailfish os looms. i agree that linux is first choice, but i'm playing the odds that it will work well with something non-google. best i can tell, postmarket os is a long way from being soup. Apr 17 16:15:36 depscribe[m]: lineageOS will hit parity with whatever Android version Planet ships eventually Apr 17 16:16:51 I don't know enough about sfOS but it seems like it may be the worst of both worlds: old Android kernel, but without the Android app ecosystem *or* the proper FOSS ecosystem (because of lack of drivers to run X11/$wlcompositor) Apr 17 16:17:06 what do you mean by "soup"? Apr 17 16:18:05 pmOS is very far from having hardware support for most phones but people have gotten telephony working on it for some qualcomm modems at least Apr 17 16:19:34 MonkeyofDoom (IRC): am old term from ibm days -- the vegetables are still cooking and it's promising but what's simmering on the stove "ain't soup yet." Apr 17 16:20:58 ah Apr 17 16:22:53 depscribe: i know all of these, since lineageos is not fully usable for me (wwan) i would use the stock rom. but i want to get rid of google services (like firebase and all others) Apr 17 16:24:21 so a list with packages that are save to remove would be nice :) Apr 17 16:24:43 this is a nice tool to remove google packages; https://f-droid.org/de/packages/de.j4velin.systemappmover ... ^^ Apr 17 16:25:33 i think that qualcomm is better documented than mediatek. Apr 17 16:25:34 devyl yup, we might all end up doing surgery on the stock rooted rom. i just hope not. and in answer to your original question, i haven't seen a written recipe, so thanks for the link! Apr 17 16:28:14 though we still need the list of stuff to remove. Apr 17 16:29:04 jep Apr 17 16:29:26 hm, it's strange that the xda thread on lineageOS for gemini talks about 14.1 when lineageOS 15.1 has been out since february Apr 17 16:30:10 maybe 15.1 needs some stuff the old kernel doesnt offer? Apr 17 16:30:26 no clue Apr 17 16:30:45 documentation on the gemini port side seems to be nonexistent Apr 17 16:30:49 since the original rom is based on android 7.1 its easier to get 14.1 working than 15.1 Apr 17 16:31:07 MonkeyofDoom (IRC): i think there might be blobs such that lineage os is limited to the kernel shipped with the device. Apr 17 16:33:33 what sort of blobs? Apr 17 16:35:24 cpu, modem,... hardwarestuff Apr 17 16:35:27 the stuff that mediatek ships as binary -- the stuff we're just supposed to trust in a SoC that's not publicly documented. Apr 17 16:35:33 the lineageOS-on-gemini forum thread links a kernel repository which is presumably the one used, but there's no real explanation of the origin of the repo or subsequent changes Apr 17 16:35:47 yes, but I mean, userspace blobs, binary kernel modules, what? Apr 17 16:38:03 low-level layers between userspace and hardware. Apr 17 16:38:39 "printk("zhaolong=======FCOVER_CLOSE====\n");" cripes Apr 17 16:39:31 depscribe[m]: there are only two options, unless you mean *firmware* (which lineageOS never has a replacement for)--userspace and kernelspace Apr 17 16:41:19 kernel. Apr 17 16:42:57 mm, I wonder what the best way to get a list of said proprietary kernel modules is Apr 17 16:45:31 here's a good explanation, in some detail: https://www.cnx-software.com/2012/02/25/binary_blobs_attack-elc-2012/ Apr 17 16:47:46 that presentation is talking about userspace blobs with hard kernel version dependencies Apr 17 16:48:33 (presumably because of heavily patched kernels) Apr 17 16:49:20 anyhow, I'm not curious about the abstract vagaries of why it sucks to be an Android device OEM, I'm curious what the situation is for the gemini itself Apr 17 16:49:50 devyl[m]: its simple once rooted. Run adb with root, then pm uninstall anything with Google in its package name Apr 17 16:50:03 * devyl[m] is looking forward to RISC-V and the Librem 5... Maybe a "Gemini 2" in two years could be an open hardware device... *dreamin' Apr 17 16:52:11 Id have backed a librem if it had a sodding keyboard Apr 17 16:52:33 Rogalian: really that easy? nothing crashes? no depencies are broken? Apr 17 16:53:01 what we have is the set of sources and binaries released by Planet, plus whatever mediatek documentation we can dig up from leaks on the web; I'm wondering which kernel-side drivers we need to upstream/RE, and which userspace blobs we need to coddle/emulate/hook/trick into working Apr 17 16:53:31 i backed a librem 5... not really because i NEED such a phone... i want to support the movement of open hardware and i think this is a nice project in terms of open hardware for the masses Apr 17 16:53:44 devyl[m]: should be fine, will find out. Typically no problems except some settings that depend on Google. Really depends how tight planet have coupled it Apr 17 16:54:17 I backed the librem 5 because I expected exactly the copout we got w/r/t Linux on the Gemini Apr 17 16:54:22 The librem is too expensive for me to back without a use for it Apr 17 16:54:38 a 3.18 kernel with no telephony support is a tragedy Apr 17 16:54:41 *nod Apr 17 16:55:31 oh i will use the librem 5 :) besides the gemini (or the pyra... i will see which one works better for me x) ) Apr 17 16:56:25 Also isn't the telephony on the Librem not actually telephony? Just wifi? Apr 17 16:57:01 it's proper regular-telephone telephony, that's in their FAQ Apr 17 16:57:42 Oh cool. Not very clear, seemed they were pushing the end to end wifi thing Apr 17 16:58:09 no it will have full wwan Apr 17 16:58:40 they said they will separate the modem from the base system so that it can be switched off completly and that the modem dont have access to the main os ram Apr 17 16:58:54 (like all other phones) Apr 17 16:59:20 Rogalian: see "DOES PURISM COMPLY WITH CALEA REQUIREMENTS?" at https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/ Apr 17 16:59:37 (thats a real big deal; the provider can access the hole os ram over wwan on nearly all phones... with all OSes) Apr 17 16:59:43 (and a few other of the entries) Apr 17 17:00:41 (a nice article about the problem if somebody doesn't know this: http://www.osnews.com/story/27416/The_second_operating_system_hiding_in_every_mobile_phone ) Apr 17 17:29:39 devyl: that's scary as hell. Apr 17 17:30:56 MonkeyofDoom: sailfish can run quite standard foss ecosysten.. even xorg should work as wayland client. Apr 17 17:33:39 it would be really cool to run a full desktop under sailfish on gemini Apr 17 17:39:46 depscribe: yeah... >.< Apr 17 17:39:55 cos- (IRC): but wouldn't it be breathtakingly slow? Apr 17 17:41:58 hm, i'm not sure if acceleration would work in xorg in wayland Apr 17 17:43:38 or just ditch xorg and run the desktop as nested wayland compositor Apr 17 18:01:28 cos- (IRC): do you know if sailfish uses libhybris to meld an android video driver with wayland? Apr 17 18:01:37 it does Apr 17 18:02:29 yep Apr 17 18:02:54 with nested compositors everything should be accelerated Apr 17 18:03:21 how hard is it to port X applications to wayland? much more than a recompile? Apr 17 18:03:58 applications don't use X, they use qt or gtk almost always. and they both already work under wayland. Apr 17 18:04:14 cos-, not exactly, nested compositor should use libEGL through hybris as well (which matters in case of chroot) Apr 17 18:04:23 so for application developer no changes are needed Apr 17 18:05:11 MonkeyofDoom, telephony is already reachable (with hybris-based stack), but needs work on UI side - see https://puu.sh/zURdN/31a39acfb4.png Apr 17 18:05:28 TheKit: ok, but this should be completely doable if the compositor runs as a sailfish app Apr 17 18:05:59 so an arm port of pretty much any linux app that would normally run under X will work under sailfish with no recompile? Apr 17 18:06:46 no, Sailfish is pretty much its own camp Apr 17 18:07:14 it uses Wayland, but officially supports only Qt Quick apps built with Silica toolkit Apr 17 18:07:15 depscribe[m]: recompile is probably required (+ qt & gtk integrated to sailfish ui) Apr 17 18:07:24 no gtk completely Apr 17 18:08:24 TheKit: i think we are talking about different things.. i'm talking about running whole desktop in a nested compositor under sailfish. that would not be limited to silica apps. Apr 17 18:09:30 ah, then you need to chroot another distro basically Apr 17 18:09:41 yep Apr 17 18:20:10 there wouldn't be w world of video issues? Apr 17 18:26:06 someone needs to try and see Apr 17 19:24:58 TheKit (IRC): i volunteer. so somebody needs to send me my gemini and a link to get sailfish! Apr 17 20:29:26 TheKit: on Linux? :ooo Apr 17 20:29:44 UIs are not a worry, I can sling dbus messages and write GTK software if I need to Apr 17 20:29:58 does 3g/4g internet work? Apr 17 20:30:27 have folks played with anbox on Linux for Gemini? Apr 17 20:56:18 MonkeyofDoom, it is, with apps from Ubuntu Touch ported by adam_b Apr 17 20:58:10 3g/4g internet is a bit tricky to configure, but just checked and it works with ofono commands like in http://smart-e.org/blogPosts/2013-06-30-raspberrypi-3g-and-ofono.html Apr 17 20:58:23 TheKit: ooooh! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 18 03:00:03 2018