**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 10 03:00:02 2018 May 10 07:01:53 depscribe[m]: The delete key is mapped as: key { [ BackSpace, Delete, XF86Tools ] }; available as [Key, Shift-Key, Fn-Key] May 10 07:32:30 I don't want gnome, cinnamon or kde ;) May 10 07:34:26 they're great on a big screen with keyboard + mouse, but I want my Gemini mainly keyboarded May 10 07:35:47 yep, i understand lot of hackers want different desktops but the majority want something easy & polished. May 10 07:36:34 mouse will be needed in any case for serious work, apps are not usable with touch and that's too much work to be changed. May 10 07:37:15 Rogalian: welcome to gemian, that is our technology agnostic aim (and as you'll see dispite assertions from cos- we are writing fresh apps that need no mouse) May 10 07:37:50 currently distracted from apps to get the base systems working underneath, so bugs an ommisions are not getting much attention May 10 07:38:39 adam_b: so you are writing a whole desktop environment with touch friendly apps? May 10 07:38:57 well as much as I can be bothered with, you've seen gemian.thinkglobally.org? May 10 07:39:43 that's only few pim apps May 10 07:40:00 well I've only been at it since october last year May 10 07:40:15 and I'm hoping it wont be just me May 10 07:40:52 writing a full touch usable desktop is a HUGE task May 10 07:41:05 also those are the apps that you need on the go, so you can plugin for mouse and full desktop when your stopped May 10 07:42:12 ok, that sounds more realistic approach May 10 07:42:32 always realistic May 10 07:43:14 there is already a touch friendly ui for gemini called sailfish, but it's not a desktop environment May 10 07:43:44 key word 'touch friendly', 'keyboard friendly' is what I'm after May 10 07:44:31 cos-: if I have to carry a mouse around I may as well not have a Gemini, that's all. May 10 07:44:52 anyway enough arguing, just get on with fixing the things tha bug you, but just be aware that others have grander plans May 10 07:45:21 i don't think we even disagree on this :-) May 10 07:46:05 well you keep asserting 'its not at all usable without a mouse' but I'm fine with using almost all of the things I've tried with a finger, only time I've needed to plug a mouse is to get the audio config thing cos of right click May 10 07:46:20 i just want to use a full desktop, and that does not work without a mouse. i've tried. touch friendly pim apps help, but that's not enough. May 10 07:46:54 adam_b: have you used file mangers, gimp, inkscape, video editors, etc with touch? May 10 07:47:37 file managers - term?, drawing and video, yes mouse/stylus is useful there May 10 07:47:41 libreoffice will be pain to use without mouse May 10 07:48:30 plenty of keyboard shortcuts in office apps, and finger prodding to jump cells and the like works fine for me May 10 07:48:42 damm I'd agreed not to keep arguing May 10 07:49:30 but maybe you get the point. i want to use full desktop apps and they are not touch+keyboard friendly at the moment. i've tried with a tablet pc and it just won't work. May 10 07:49:44 Any implementation of something like microsofts touch cursor control in their RDP setup? Think VNC has the same method too May 10 07:49:51 *planned May 10 07:51:33 Its not direct touch, its controlling the mouse cursor with touch May 10 07:51:54 Virtual touchpad I suppose its called May 10 07:52:00 yea there is some chat about it May 10 07:52:10 I don't think anyones taken it on just yet May 10 07:52:54 that should be fully doable May 10 07:53:00 That always works well for me May 10 07:53:15 it not something in my personal plan, and the idea was to have it switchable, so that you can swap the function May 10 12:45:16 adam_b (IRC): also configuring the taskbar/kicker thing at the bottom of lxqt. i wonder if it is possible to make a key combination that emulates a right mouse click. May 10 13:42:05 is /etc/group cached someplace? i've created a new user (via adduser) and have added the new user to all the groups in /etc/group that gemini is in, and still the black screen of mouse cursor. it does not seem to be taking. i've ssh'ed in and the ~/ exists and is populated. May 10 13:46:04 specigically, should i be editing /etc/gshadow too? May 10 13:46:49 specigically=specifically May 10 13:47:23 it does look that way (and update the wiki page) May 10 13:47:39 usermod -G group1,group2,group3 May 10 13:47:47 to add a user to groups May 10 13:48:11 usermod -G group1,group2,group3 username May 10 13:48:16 i meant May 10 13:49:23 is there an advantage to that over simply editing the files? some of the groups are pretty obscure. May 10 13:50:26 I think I added the groups using the adduser command but got bored with the number of them, so figured editing the file might be easier in the future, havn't had to reflash since though May 10 13:51:41 depscribe: I think the danger is messing up the format of your passwd or shadow files is that you can easily lock yourself out of your own system! But a quick cp backup usually mitigates that well enough.... May 10 13:54:32 canny: i think that's why a number of config files if edited manually are overwritten at boot. May 10 14:01:25 and it had no effect, dammit. do i need to edit group- and gshadow- also? May 10 14:01:40 i thought those were simply saves of the old files for easy recovery. May 10 14:07:21 Does anyone else have an issue with android on the lock set to a password, where pressing enter doesn't submit it? If I type additional characters and then backspace them away a couple of times, it then let's me submit. May 10 14:08:07 depscribe: aah, good to know - hopefully I'll know /first-hand/ within a few weeks.... May 10 14:12:39 Captain_Harlock[: I found it might take upto 4 presses of enter before it took, occasionally it'd work first time, very strange May 10 14:13:50 depscribe[m]: you could try one of the commands to change gropus (as per cke__ or adduser etc) or a reboot May 10 14:20:40 adam_b, it seems the same for me, the type of other characters and removing them seems to be faster. May 10 14:21:56 adam_b: adduser got me here in the first place and i've been usermod'ing. everything looks right. i just d/led kuser, with which i'm *fairly* familiar and will see if that casts any light on things. May 10 14:23:40 depscribe[m]: as in sudo adduser [user] audio video aid_system aid_graphics... May 10 14:24:10 or as per cke__ with usermod May 10 14:31:36 hello quiet people May 10 14:32:38 TheKit[m], how much is Debian in progress to this date ... any functionality May 10 14:32:55 hack abilities May 10 14:45:58 adam_b: yup, and in every case it throws an "is already a member of" error. here are the groups: sudo audio video aid_system aid_input aid_audio aid_net_bt-admin aid_net_bt aid_inet aid_inet_raw aid_inet_admin May 10 14:47:06 and kuser (run as a user because lxqt doesn't prompt for an admin password from its menu, and there's no menu editor i can find) shows the user a member of those groups as well. May 10 15:03:11 nor can i delete the user. May 10 21:52:32 latest hellish problem: i just went to add my 128gb microSD card to fstab so it can get automounted at boot (and if that works, then ultimately mount it as /home) and i discovered that there is no /etc/fstab in the linux on gemini. how do we automount /dev/mmcblk1? May 10 21:56:56 depscribe[m]: related, I'm curious how to get /tmp to be a tmpfs May 10 22:32:07 depscribe[m]: I'm guessing you've got a Systemd system there - https://copyninja.info/blog/systemd_automount_entry.html May 10 23:11:27 DaPol2: the next good thing i hear about systemd will be the first good thing i hear about systemd. May 10 23:20:43 since according to the literature systemd does read /etc/fstab at some point (though it's apparently casual about the order in which its entries are mounted) i wonder if i create an /etc/fstab that has just the one line, for my microSD card, that would do the trick. May 10 23:20:50 why did we switch to systemd again? May 10 23:37:59 faster boots, more parallelization, fewer fragile shell scripts May 10 23:38:34 the problem with systemd is that it's developed by an asshole who doesn't respond constructively to bug reports May 10 23:38:38 but that's another discussion May 11 00:10:58 Also, it apparently makes any triggered service have a dependency on it **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 11 03:00:03 2018