**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 21 03:00:05 2018 May 21 07:01:23 sheepbat: it reboots when installing the update May 21 07:01:43 adam_b: wait.. the updater can't update if there is a dual boot setup? that can't be right? May 21 07:40:09 the dual boot scatter file installs a different bootloader binary, so it would not surprise me May 21 07:53:46 as a paying customer for a closed commercial os i'd expect something more user-friendly May 21 07:54:04 wiping the whole android partition with flasher tool is _not_ an option May 21 07:55:23 cos-: presumably its based upon a binary diff so has a simple check 'is the device checksum as I expect' no, 'fail' (hypothesis) May 21 07:55:56 cos-: no need for that the latest versions of the flash tool allow you to select just 'download' and tick selector box the bits you want to flash, just pick android system and kernel May 21 07:56:16 you have to use the same scatter file though so the partition sizes and locations are the same May 21 07:56:50 android (unlike Debian TP) isn't just one partition - it has several May 21 07:57:23 well then maybe there are more things to tick, just download the update image compare the files and see which have a binary diff and make sure you flash them May 21 07:58:09 the other partitions are for user data and cache so you dont need to update those May 21 07:58:09 but don't tick the user data or debian system ones May 21 07:59:13 adam_b: ok, thanks. is the current updated image available as flashable file? May 21 07:59:42 yes its the 11/5/18 release May 21 08:00:35 i think it still sucks, I can't believe android really doesn't support proper ota updates. May 21 08:01:08 it does May 21 08:01:09 cos-: you do like to moan a little bit : ) May 21 08:01:15 it's linux that doesn't support it May 21 08:01:35 linux supports apt-get update in the most part May 21 08:01:53 which is not a reliable update method for mobile phones May 21 08:01:57 never has been May 21 08:02:39 individual package updates are fine when you can just boot a live CD if something breaks May 21 08:04:36 well no one has CD drives any more... and we have booting from other partitions so you can fix things from outside (granted we need to stop android scrubbing the recovery with its dead android one) May 21 08:09:04 adam_b: well i'm a developer and i know they could implement this properly but no.. May 21 08:21:35 MATE works pretty nicely with software compositing May 21 08:22:05 Gemini Keyboard app just got an update. "New keyboard layouts and fixes". May 21 08:22:13 The keyboard mapping is shot though. B and N don't seem to work May 21 08:22:36 Rogalian: have you taken in the gemian keymaps? May 21 08:23:13 Good question. The keyboard works fine in the login manager May 21 08:23:31 Actually you must have as that is expected until you fix your shortcut key handler May 21 08:23:49 Mate says planet computers Gemini keyboard May 21 08:24:13 basically upstream linux seems to have a bad assumption that a 'named' key is a key on its own not a modified other key, so they tend to grab the whole key May 21 08:24:25 rather than just the fn+key May 21 08:24:45 I took the TP, ripped out all the otherDE stuff and used tasksel to get mate on as an experiment May 21 08:24:49 I patched lxqt-globakeys but others need to od the other de's May 21 08:24:56 Aha May 21 08:25:03 Makes sense May 21 08:25:59 Only got mate on as it matches other of my machines. It needs a mouse :) May 21 08:26:29 you can probably just remove the shortcut keys in the short term May 21 08:33:40 Right, lets see if I can May 21 08:33:57 just a process list and kill one that says keys to start May 21 08:47:21 Gotcha. Need to get RNDIS working first. May 21 09:10:37 No ps for keys listed May 21 09:12:03 sorry I don't know what DE your using or what its keyboard grabber is called, other keywords to look out for are shortcut/global/etc May 21 09:12:22 or use the UI and turn off the shortcuts May 21 09:13:38 Yeah will do. I don't see anything for those listed, but ive now got RNDIS working so I can at least enter the characters for the wifi psk here May 21 09:16:22 MATE is gnome2 btw May 21 09:49:28 has anyone managed to run i3wm? I tried logging in with it, but it cannot render anything except the setup dialog borders May 21 09:50:45 oh well actually pressing enter I managed to skip the dialog and set mod key to alt, I can open a terminal now May 21 09:52:09 apps like firefox and libreoffice also seem to work, but the i3status bar only renders the separators May 21 11:08:22 Erm, wlan0 mac address changes every boot? May 21 11:23:57 not unusual May 21 11:24:14 the MAC addresses are stored in the NVRAM partition May 21 11:24:28 operating system has to load them into the radio at boot time May 21 11:24:31 No wonder connman wont autoconnect for me then May 21 11:24:47 not if you are using mac filtering May 21 11:25:46 Connmanctl saves its configs by mac May 21 11:28:03 there needs to be some script to load the MAC during boot, i guess it isn't implemented yet May 21 11:28:47 it stopped happening once I'd updated from the original set of packages May 21 11:29:16 Hmm, ive apt upgraded everything May 21 11:29:22 probably baked into the desktop then May 21 11:59:54 Bit of a bugger but making a connman-service.config file sorts it May 21 12:03:58 adam_b: don't elaborate if its a pig, but is it easy to get the kernel boot messages to show and drop to a console prompt on boot? I.e. no X11 May 21 12:04:42 Rogalian: so far as I know there is no screen driver for text only May 21 12:05:47 Cool, okay ill go facepalm into oblivion May 21 12:46:03 Whats the magic combo for a . ? :/ May 21 12:46:54 On the UK keyboard it's just the . key... May 21 12:47:11 (shift for ? and fn for smileyfacekeyboardpopup ;) ) May 21 12:47:20 I must be blind, where is that? May 21 12:47:29 Ohhh May 21 12:47:31 Key above the left arrow :) May 21 12:47:49 I am, sorry. From a distance it just looks like the ? Key May 21 12:48:19 *giggles* Only so much that can be done with a keyboard that small :) May 21 12:48:23 Spent half an hour looking :D May 21 12:48:51 Staring yourself blind is fun sometimes ;) May 21 13:04:42 Aha, needed the /nvdata folder for mac address to stay static May 21 13:26:27 In Debian, until you get the keyboard sorted out, I recommend setting up Florence. It makes things significantly easier. May 21 13:26:40 It is an On screen keyboard. May 21 13:29:51 received my gemini, very nice May 21 13:30:00 but I'm afraid I have too big fingers May 21 13:30:03 at least it will take some getting used to May 21 13:31:40 "too big"? N900 is made of pure awesomesity, and is like half the size. May 21 13:32:40 haven't received my Gemini yet, so I can't compare -- but the ranking is: real keyboard > N900 > laptops May 21 13:32:42 My biggest complaint with the keyboard is the very strange special key mapping. In time, I will probably remap keys, regardless of what the keycaps say. May 21 13:33:12 I can type well with two thumbs, but not 10 finger touch-typing May 21 13:33:19 and by real keyboard I mean a good Model M fake May 21 13:33:29 key mapping can be changed, yes May 21 13:33:51 Nokia's key mapping on N900 was pants-on-the-head retarded May 21 13:35:33 to the point of most symbols needed for coding ([ ] { } -- even Esc or PgUp) requiring a two-key combination to pull up an on-screen keyboard, shift your fingers to on-screen, pick it from a menu, instead of just assigning an unique goddamn two key combination in the first place May 21 13:35:51 I have used:Diamond Mako(psionRevo), Psion5 zaurus, N810,N900, droid/2/3/4 blackberry priv. The gemini keyboard is good. In my opinion, if it were slightly smaller it would be better for two thumb. If it were slightly larger, it would be great for 10 finger. With practice is works well. I do tend to bump the touch screen while typing numbers, and moving the cursor position. May 21 13:37:16 I d keys on the Droid 2,3, and 4. I haven't felt the need to remap the priv keys. they work pretty well. May 21 13:37:51 i kinda wonder if i got a bad unit then.. May 21 13:38:05 the keys just don't feel good on mine May 21 13:38:46 I had to pull and reseat Q for it not to stick May 21 13:39:05 The rest are fine, except for Enter. May 21 13:39:24 The most important key :( May 21 13:39:28 the N key has issues on mine. It is at an angle, and the letter came faded. I contacted Planet, but they expressed no interest in helping. May 21 13:39:58 after remapping, N900 was so good I used to do several-hour long coding sessions from the bed instead of walking to the big computer. Let's see how Gemini goes after some time of getting used to. May 21 13:41:13 * kilobyte wants handheld mode (two thumbs), once you have a hard surface it's time to pull out a laptop. May 21 13:41:23 I do lots of editing/coding on the priv, and did on the droid4 as well. May 21 13:42:12 I need more practice with two thumbs on it. the screen does seem a bit floppy though. They should have copied the Revo hinge. May 21 13:45:46 I think remapping some of the keys will help with the two thumb typing. May 21 14:47:07 ali1234, honestly apt-get update is more reliable than Android OTA in case you modified system partition May 21 14:47:27 or you end up like Ubuntu Touch with ro root and tons of restrictions May 21 14:55:26 at least they could have done it on filesystem level instead of patching the block device directly.. May 21 15:45:08 adam_b: you mentioned no screen driver for a text-onlt screen earlier, and i got to wondering -- is there no framebuffer support? May 21 15:46:32 Rogalian: they certainly could have used brighter white on the key lettering, couldn't they. i think that's part of the problem causing the demand for a lit keyboard. May 21 16:01:42 depscribe[m]: more of a question for NeKit (video output options) May 21 16:13:02 there is framebuffer, but I didn't test framebuffer console May 21 16:13:25 it's often broken on Android kernel, but this needs testing May 21 16:14:00 banged on i3, this would be fantastically useful if the gemini had a dedicated modifier key. May 21 16:14:18 planet + alt on same key makes it a pain May 21 16:20:18 surely the fn key is the dedicated modifier, having it modify alt for the telephone thing is nuts May 21 16:22:05 NeKit: not the top item in the to-do list; just unusual to have a linux that can't be booted into console. May 21 16:25:44 I ordered a Teensy, a usb-c plug, and one of those mini trackball, like the blackberry phones had. I am going to attempt to make a clip on mouse for the gemini. May 21 16:26:49 on the screen border? May 21 16:26:57 adam: shift then planet is meta_L, planet then shift is alt_L and shift_L. key order matters May 21 16:27:11 i3 lik May 21 16:27:21 likes meta + shift May 21 16:28:19 The intention was to have it clip next to the keyboard or the screen. May 21 16:28:23 configuring libreoffice here and it's running more slowly than earlier. figure it has to do with the "use hardware acceleration" and "use openGL" settings. what ought they be in the current state of the system? May 21 16:28:40 If it clips on the screen boarder, it wouldn't get in the way of thumb typing. May 21 16:47:19 Of course what might also work nicely, is using the touchscreen as a touchpad like control for the mouse. May 22 00:41:20 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.robotfuzz.al.aledxander May 22 00:41:39 first 3rd party app for gemini? May 22 00:48:15 When searching in the play store, I was unable to locate it. Clicking insteall through a browser, I was able to install it. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue May 22 03:00:04 2018