**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jul 15 03:01:15 2019
Jul 15 09:11:45 <marex-cloud> Hello from Japan (still) , not from Gemini PDA which is just useless dead weight (still)
Jul 15 09:12:08 <marex-cloud> I guess planetcom doesn't give a damn that 4G doesn't work and 3G only barely sometimes
Jul 15 09:13:03 <marex-cloud> I mean, it was designed as a communicator, so it fails miserably at it's primary function and planetcom does nothing about it :)
Jul 15 09:21:11 <VartiWork> that's bad to hear... are other users in Japan affected too?
Jul 15 09:25:22 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: it's a known issue for months
Jul 15 09:25:39 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: even on Android 7.x, the network was crappy at best
Jul 15 09:26:17 <marex-cloud> With the Android 8.x "upgrade", it went fully belly up
Jul 15 09:26:24 <VartiWork> ouch
Jul 15 09:27:03 <marex-cloud> Yep, expensive dead weight
Jul 15 09:27:47 <VartiWork> I remember reading about network issues in Japan as soon as the first devices were shipped, I hoped that would have been fixed by now
Jul 15 09:28:58 <VartiWork> no feedback from Planet about this? not even a "we're working on this but it's a though issue, please be patient"?
Jul 15 09:31:08 <marex-cloud> Nope
Jul 15 09:31:21 <marex-cloud> Gemini is a waste of time and all
Jul 15 09:34:09 <VartiWork> there has been a warning for DoCoMo at least: http://support.planetcom.co.uk/index.php/Gemini_Android_8_Upgrade
Jul 15 09:34:58 <VartiWork> are you using a DoCoMo SIM, or from another operator?
Jul 15 09:36:37 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: docomo, one of the biggest operators here and probably the only one selling prepaid Sims at the airport
Jul 15 09:36:50 <marex-cloud> So like, planetcom failed so much here ...
Jul 15 09:40:11 <TheKit> i wonder if ofono is any different
Jul 15 09:40:35 <marex-cloud> TheKit: different how?
Jul 15 09:40:56 <marex-cloud> TheKit: I suspect it's a flub of the modem firmware
Jul 15 09:41:36 <marex-cloud> TheKit: most of the mobile phone stuff runs in a closed source blob on the baseband modem CPU
Jul 15 09:42:16 <TheKit> they probably didn't touch modem firmware on android 7 to android 8 update, so it could be higher level software
Jul 15 09:44:39 <marex-cloud> TheKit: I wouldn't be so sure
Jul 15 10:10:17 <VartiWork> I have done a bit of research, Planet has posted the same warning on their FB page a couple of months ago, no update on the issue. I'll ask them on FB if there's any update to this
Jul 15 10:11:17 <VartiWork> I'd also like to see this to be sorted, one day I'd like to travel to Japan and carry my Gemini with me
Jul 15 10:12:46 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: just buy another phone, I'm not gonna give planetcom even a cent anymore after this disaster they presented
Jul 15 10:17:22 <VartiWork> nope, not turning back anymore to a virtual keyboard and half screen being covered by it
Jul 15 10:20:43 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: works especially well when eg exploring and using map, doesn't it
Jul 15 10:21:30 <VartiWork> well, I never do that while walking to be honest
Jul 15 10:22:18 <marex-cloud> Never walked around with a map in one hand?
Jul 15 10:23:28 <VartiWork> maybe when I was young, nowadays I prefer to see the route at home before leaving and memorize it, it is just quickier
Jul 15 10:24:56 <VartiWork> probably I don't feel the need to do it while walking because I never need to find complicated or long routes while I'm walking
Jul 15 10:26:28 <VartiWork> on the other side, I have used my Gemini for articles translations and SSH sessions on the go without the need to carry my laptop, I'd never do that on a virtual keyboard
Jul 15 10:27:17 <VartiWork> IMHO, the Gemini is a great device, but only if it suits your (niche) needs
Jul 15 10:27:54 <VartiWork> for many other common tasks, a traditional smartphone is just more practical
Jul 15 10:28:01 <kilobyte> I pretty much completely retired laptop use, Gemini is awesome there
Jul 15 10:28:21 <marex-cloud> For ssh, sure
Jul 15 10:28:39 <marex-cloud> If you can manage were the small form factor anyway
Jul 15 10:28:53 <marex-cloud> For anything else ...
Jul 15 10:29:10 <kilobyte> a laptop requires a backpack or a car trunk, Gemini fits into a pocket
Jul 15 10:30:45 <kilobyte> out of 3 places I spend any non-trivial amount of time at a computer, the smallest setup is at work, 2x24" monitors, with a big keyboard.  A laptop is unusable for any prolonged work, thus Gemini fits that niche well enough.
Jul 15 10:30:46 <VartiWork> I rarely make or receive voice calls, so having to open it everytime is not an issue for me... I wouldn't use it as a phone though if I'd need to make calls often
Jul 15 10:31:37 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: works fine fur Linux/U-Boot development
Jul 15 10:32:02 <marex-cloud> *for
Jul 15 10:32:29 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: n900 form factor was nice for that
Jul 15 10:32:43 <kilobyte> on the other hand, 1. cellular doesn't work for me, 2. that "Linux" being a glorified chroot on Android, glued with string and bubble-gum, seriously affects usability
Jul 15 10:32:51 <VartiWork> about the small form factor, before the Gemini I used a clamshell Zaurus for live transcriptions, that keyboard was really cramped but could be still used for it :)
Jul 15 10:34:35 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: yep
Jul 15 10:35:15 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: and that kernel patchset / horrorcode running at EL3, ew
Jul 15 10:35:26 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: that's disturbing
Jul 15 10:35:32 <kilobyte> Pinebook took ~2 years to reach being useful without piles of vendor poo, I see Gemini goes much slower
Jul 15 10:35:46 <kilobyte> I have no relevant skills to help there, alas
Jul 15 10:36:14 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: well, you can always learn
Jul 15 10:36:24 <marex-cloud> Except there is I believe no schematic
Jul 15 10:36:36 <marex-cloud> That complicates things
Jul 15 10:36:41 <VartiWork> marex-cloud I believe n900's keys were more like calculator ones, I prefer the Gemini's one... also, I prefer screens that can be tilted
Jul 15 10:36:56 <kilobyte> not really, I work at Intel these days so no ARM porting for me :p
Jul 15 10:37:04 <marex-cloud> And the shitcode delivered by planetcom/mediatek sure doesn't help
Jul 15 10:37:47 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: makes it harder to use when standing though
Jul 15 10:38:00 <kilobyte> on the other hand, I once submitted some work that turned out to be broken if char is signed :p
Jul 15 10:38:21 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: ah yes, I heard intel has pretty awful rules, I'd hate to work there
Jul 15 10:39:31 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: zaurus was indeed nice
Jul 15 10:39:52 <kilobyte> not really, awesome place to work, but obviously doing stuff that directly helps competitors is bad.  Kind of like a Googler went out teaching people about DDG+Tor.
Jul 15 10:40:42 <kilobyte> and the vast majority of software is portable
Jul 15 10:41:14 <VartiWork> marex-cloud Indeed... while walking/standing I'm used to keep the Gemini with my left hand, while typing with my right one. With an n900 I guess you can comfortably thumb-type with both hands
Jul 15 10:41:22 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: I'd still hate it if company told me what to (not) do in my free time
Jul 15 10:41:51 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: yep
Jul 15 10:42:33 <marex-cloud> VartiWork: and it ran kind-of stock-ish debian on reasonably upstream supported SoC
Jul 15 10:43:33 <kilobyte> I don't think any company would allow that
Jul 15 10:43:51 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: allow what?
Jul 15 10:44:13 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: you're not helping their competitor, you're scratching your own itch
Jul 15 10:44:40 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: didn't intel -- after massive investment, which never returned -- leave embedded systems again?
Jul 15 10:44:54 <kilobyte> GPD Pocket?
Jul 15 10:45:21 <kilobyte> not much embedded at Intel indeed... but there are NUCs and so on
Jul 15 10:45:26 <marex-cloud> That's more of a game console, the keyboard sucks
Jul 15 10:45:41 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: nuc is a regular desktop
Jul 15 10:46:08 <kilobyte> there are big and small NUCs, they're kind of bigger SoCs
Jul 15 10:46:24 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: small nucs?
Jul 15 10:46:32 <marex-cloud> Like the compute card?
Jul 15 10:46:39 <marex-cloud> Oh wait, that was cancelled too
Jul 15 10:46:40 <kilobyte> of course, none scale so low as coin-sized ARMs with full ethernet, USB and local storage
Jul 15 10:46:48 <marex-cloud> But then they announced something similar
Jul 15 10:47:01 <kilobyte> but then, ARM servers are a bad joke
Jul 15 10:47:26 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: well the was quark, but then it almost started to be popular, so intel cancelled it
Jul 15 10:47:53 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: I'm sure arm servers have their nice use where they shine
Jul 15 10:48:04 <kilobyte> so the market is kind of divided without much direct competition, with only fight being low-end laptops.  No real ARM in the data center, no real Intel in phones.
Jul 15 10:48:27 <marex-cloud> RV will soon take over :)
Jul 15 10:49:14 <marex-cloud> It seems there are arm servers in Telco
Jul 15 10:49:32 <kilobyte> RV seems to be vapourware to me.  One crap expensive board appeared mid-2018, then nothing not thoroughly embedded came up since.
Jul 15 13:54:19 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: it's coming
Jul 15 13:54:38 <marex-cloud> kilobyte: and arm needs competition, otherwise it'd end up stuck like x86
Jul 15 20:53:26 <melissa_> Hello. How do I unlock the Gemini with the keyboard? Oftentimes it doesn't respond.
Jul 15 20:57:50 <melissa_> Oh actually I think I got it.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jul 16 03:02:17 2019