**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 03 03:00:33 2020 Nov 03 05:46:46 We'd need to put a request @fabianwoods into the telegram chat what exactly he needs to do, as he's the only one who can provide the bot with admin permissions, if needed. The /id we can do any time, since the bot's in the channel since yesterday evening. Nov 03 06:21:25 Good morning, lets see how this goes, I'll do the bridging now 🙂 (like it's some big honorary event 😆 ) Nov 03 06:22:11 !tg bridge -1001370153415 Nov 03 06:22:12 >Telegrambridgebo< That Telegram chat already has a portal at [#_telegram_GeminiPDA:hacklab.fi](https://matrix.to/#/!hlpIeaoAWcgTGLSNvd:hacklab.fi). However, you have the permissions to unbridge that room. Nov 03 06:22:12 >Telegrambridgebo< To delete that portal completely and continue bridging, use `!tg delete-and-continue`. To unbridge the portal without kicking Matrix users, use `!tg unbridge-and-continue`. To cancel, use `!tg cancel` Nov 03 06:22:37 !tg delete-and-continue Nov 03 06:22:37 >Telegrambridgebo< Cleaning up previous portal room... Nov 03 06:22:39 >Telegrambridgebo< Bridging complete. Portal synchronization should begin momentarily. Nov 03 06:24:00 aand we are done :) Nov 03 06:28:49 So we skip the wedding ceremony and go straight to the party? 😃 Nov 03 06:29:32 hmm... I don't like those appservice irc messages at all Nov 03 06:29:53 So my Telegram user was kicked? Nov 03 06:29:58 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (8KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/wmSbdilSmGIDNyvyJZxWdqCT/image.png > Nov 03 06:31:10 I may have a nick collision with myself on irc. Nov 03 06:31:55 I have to say, this kind of message is new(s) to me.. especially in masses Nov 03 06:33:11 it should survive collisions with nicks just fine.. or more so add some number or something should there be collision otherwise, to make such not happend Nov 03 06:34:05 Nope, I wasn't TauPanAka on irc. But my telegram user isn't visible on irc. Nov 03 06:34:49 I wonder is freenode so full (only bridge that is through matrixorg themselves and not hacklab finland in our context), but this is no good :/ Nov 03 06:36:08 full as in wouldn't be first time matrixorg FN hits their I-line limit, or whatever the nice term for conn-limit was, and FN does'nt want to give more Nov 03 06:41:29 So... hm.. immediately we can mostly try and wait, or ofcourse unbridge... additional things being theoretically possible would be to "move" IRC channel to ircnet, as their track record about users and "i-lines" has been way better than FN and matrixorg (that bridge is run by university of uwente or twente or what ever it was Nov 03 06:43:23 one root-issue with irc and current bridging tech is that there can realistically be only one bridge instance unless wanting to introduce gazillion more issues, stemming from oneclient can have one and one connection only, that is one reason hackfi isn't hosting own for own purposes Nov 03 06:44:22 This behaviour seen now would also mean issues for any other FN bridges to be created :/ Nov 03 06:51:29 Oh well.. I've asked on bridge channel is there any insight Nov 03 07:11:44 Strictly speaking "IRC connection failure" might mean a lot of things. Are there any bot logs detailing the IRC server error message or something like that? Nov 03 07:12:40 well.. as the bridge is hosted by matrixorg I have no access to such logs Nov 03 07:13:02 also funnily isolated to this new bridging, so far at the least... Nov 03 07:14:27 Also apparently funnily isolated to my Telegram user so far, it seems. Nov 03 07:14:39 nope Nov 03 07:15:26 Exanded view from initial user sync after bridging.. and keeps on continuing Nov 03 07:15:29 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (109KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/mYngIiAfvtotUnWoAvEQqxWY/image.png > Nov 03 07:15:50 Ah, I didn't unfold the member changes on matrix. Nov 03 07:25:22 Maybe some flood protection kicked in and we can just wait it out? Nov 03 07:30:25 I don't believe such in this situation.. I mean it owuld affect any bridging ever if that would behave like that normally in bridging situation.. I mean there is not much we can do but wait, or unbridge, or more drastical measures in general (changing whole irc network, which realistically I don't believe ircers woudl care to do, because of whatever reasons 🙂 ) Nov 03 07:33:37 yep, and this is not what I meant with "bridging is good" xD Nov 03 07:34:39 thanks freenode, i didn't know it was this bad Nov 03 07:36:21 I don't know if IRCnet would be better. At least I have no unrestricted connection to IRCnet. Nov 03 07:37:22 My immediate action would be indeed "nothing", at least wait some and see if there will be any meaningful answer on bridge tech channel, or magically starting to work... Nov 03 07:37:31 but can't have this in long run Nov 03 07:37:54 I've bridged many channels to tg and discord on ircnet and they work fine. Freenode is problematic. Nov 03 07:40:12 Indeed lately ircnet has been just awesome in general, or as awesome as IRC can get... They impose no manmade arbitary limits etc, like FN does and on top of that won't budge... While I guess finding ircnet server one can connect on home country can be an just tad bit more research than unicersal freenode "chat" dns Nov 03 07:40:37 I mean this kind of thoughtprocess shouldn't be even needed, but here we are :D Nov 03 07:41:03 number of irc channels you can be in IRCnet is pretty limited, IIRC Nov 03 07:41:41 and some people actually appreciate nickserv ;) Nov 03 07:41:43 flux: what do you mean? Nov 03 07:42:17 Least of the way this supposed to be this community issue... but in this situation there is not much I can do sadly either :/ Nov 03 07:42:29 I think you cannot join more than 20 channels at a time in IRCnet Nov 03 07:42:48 but maybe the limit has been bumped since I last time used it Nov 03 07:43:15 flux: ok haven't noticed that kind of limitation but i've never been on that many channels Nov 03 07:45:50 Solely me I'd forget irc alltogether, but as world is not just me I'd like to have smoothest use of all the holy and unholy chat mediums there are.. matrix bridges has been such way.. and largely still is.. it is irc that gives some tech limitations because of its nature, and on top of that arbitaryman-made limitations between FN and matrixorg whic hseems to make coexisting an pain nowadays as we saw Nov 03 07:46:57 lol Nov 03 07:47:19 irc is the gold standard on chatting Nov 03 07:47:38 more like rusty old machinery that still runs somehow ;D Nov 03 07:48:27 I refuse to let go of my IRC. Be thankful I actually switched from screen and irssi to tmux and weechat (yes, exactly as in the xkcd cartoon). ;) Nov 03 07:48:34 bridging-wise. combination of irc as tech being one conn == one user and FN<>matrixorg limits options so greatly.. Nov 03 07:48:56 matrix has weechat option too ;D Nov 03 07:50:15 anyway.. I can't blame the ircers for this exact situation, but irc as a tech limits things some now :) Nov 03 07:51:12 because of the first limit, I can't fire up own FN bridge and join same channels as users with other FN bridge, without multipluing amount of irc handles... Nov 03 07:51:33 and latter limitation seems to ruin everyone with FN bridging lately Nov 03 07:55:44 From what I see with behaviour on this, I feel somehow either new connections are failing, or they somehow limit other users coming from other bridges from connecting... as I have regged this nich in freenode and so on and am going through to irc too... Nov 03 08:33:22 How many active users are here who wouldn't want to switch to Matrix from IRC? It would be an option to drop IRC from this channel. If freenode refuses to work, we could do that and continue as Matrix+tg channel. Nov 03 08:33:45 "regged this nich in freenode" <- Sorry, don't know what that means. Nov 03 08:34:48 TauPan: registered my nick "olmari" to FN, and letting bridge auth me when in need Nov 03 08:34:51 cos-: I wouldn't like (!) to switch away from IRC. I could possibly use matrix via weechat, I suppose... never looked into that. :-\ Nov 03 08:35:37 TauPan: i've heard weechat's matrix plugin is quite good nowadays so it should not be a big problem Nov 03 08:37:20 anyone else? Nov 03 08:41:18 I am using IRC daily, not just for this channel Nov 03 08:42:09 I'd still say that the ultimately there still will be irc room for this (or for an topic in general) no matter what we do now... We can't exactly force the masses to move out.. or instead masses, those grey-bearded stubborn ones ;D Nov 03 08:43:33 https://xkcd.com/1782/ 'nuff said Nov 03 08:43:40 bridges, or lack thereof, isn't usually annoying the ones happy with irc, so in that sense there isn't problem to solve (: Nov 03 08:44:26 it annoys matrix users the most, especially when tech exist to work just nicely along together, but then stuff like FN decides to be dicks about it (: Nov 03 08:46:45 My beard and my hair is quite gray, as you might have guessed :) Nov 03 08:47:45 I know I don't care about irc myself anymore, but until an irc user wants to switch there is little others can do about that Nov 03 08:48:44 Sure, bridging would be nice (: or other hand could isolate ircers to own corner... which will not help the causes :D Nov 03 08:49:56 Actually you could argue that telegram users are isolated from irc, as messages from irc can be read on telegram just fine. Nov 03 08:50:08 one option would be to start a second channel that would be matrix+tg only. that would merge at least two communities together. but i'd prefer getting all three to be merged together. Nov 03 08:50:41 I think that is generally the end goal we all would want Nov 03 08:51:33 TauPan: well rootcause is still irc-bridge, effect is what it is :) Nov 03 08:53:53 (what's the issue being discussed here? freenode nick registration causing issues due to bridging?) Nov 03 08:54:37 Look above an bit :) Nov 03 08:55:13 ah, the picture. I just /ignore that crap :). Nov 03 08:55:41 bridge (read: freenode) causes connection failures for telegram ghosts and they are kicked. Nov 03 08:56:07 (I guess the kicks remain visible) Nov 03 08:56:09 And this (picture) tells exactyl how irc bridge behaves when someone from TG speaks, I get the feeling it is intentional, but TF I can do... Nov 03 08:56:10 flux: We currently have two-way bridging between matrix + irc (as before), two-way bridging between matrix and telegram and one-way bridging between telegram and irc. Telegram sees messages from irc, but no messages from telegram can be seen on irc. Nov 03 08:56:12 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (28KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/xxkBpwafZwRTfXjszSYjOfaC/image.png > Nov 03 08:56:39 was alien a tg bridged user? Nov 03 08:57:02 hmm.. I think alien actually uses matrix Nov 03 08:57:30 well no, now alien joined as matrix, screenshot was telegram Nov 03 08:57:34 yes looks like there are tg ghosts here. can they talk? Nov 03 08:58:23 As an example, when I talk on telegram, nothing is seen on irc at all. (But I do not have a telegram ghost here on irc.) Nov 03 08:58:31 Ah, seems like I'm here. Nice! Nov 03 08:58:41 [Alien]: yeah, you are Nov 03 08:58:55 Now I need to figure out how to leave TG room with bridge Nov 03 08:59:46 go to telegram and leave? Nov 03 09:00:48 I don't have telgram installed. I don't een remember throwaway virtual phone number I used with bridge Nov 03 09:01:02 But I'll try Nov 03 09:01:51 I wonder if it world would be a better place if native IRC bridging would be opt in. so if you don't connect via the appservice, you will be represented by a bot, but you have the option to sign in to IRC. should eliminate these kind of issues with the cost of user experience (bot-bridges suck) Nov 03 09:02:05 HellKaim: we did... and apparently nowadays combination of things makes stuff be really effed up, and from what I see it seems even purposeful... which is utter crap, but also an thing I can't do an thing but to complain and ask questions on matrixorg FN brdige tech channel Nov 03 09:02:13 I can't see my message from TG here... strange Nov 03 09:03:19 HellKaim: for bridges there shouldn't be disctinction for "second bridges users", they should be like any other matrix user to bridge Nov 03 09:03:31 kaim[m]: Hm, that looks like a matrix bot to me. Both our messages from telegram were not visible on irc. Nov 03 09:03:44 s/bot/ghost/ Nov 03 09:04:12 (Ah, forget it, misread.) Nov 03 09:06:06 <_telegram_79 "How can I connect my user accoun"> You need to contact bridge bot and login to TG in it, but personally I don't recommend it. Official bridge was broken for me, some messages in large groups were not relayed Nov 03 09:08:09 What would be official TG bridge? to best of m knowlege there is not one, but one or two of public ones and bunch of more private ones... unlike irc, that owuld work moderately for channels where others uses (own) bridges too, unlike irc... Nov 03 09:08:57 in any case, I do feel FN issue are purposefully man made, as alien seems to exist just fine here through native matrix, while TG-puppet immediately gets kicked out Nov 03 09:10:11 t2bot.io. I mean official instance of this bridge Nov 03 09:10:29 no it is not Nov 03 09:10:37 it neither official to matrix, nor official to this channel even =) Nov 03 09:10:41 There is also unoffficial instance which is easy to google for, and it's more reliable for me Nov 03 09:11:14 There's no official instances of tg bridge, all are self-hosted by someone. Nov 03 09:11:19 I mean, official instance hosted by bridge developer, bot bby third-parties Nov 03 09:11:37 While the keeper of t2bot is also influencing on matrix if not directly working on New Vector (I can't know for sure), t2bot is still his hobby and pure convenience offering Nov 03 09:12:07 neither matrixorg nor any corporation instance relating is responsible for that bridge :) Nov 03 09:13:22 aand mautrix-telegram only assigned developer is tulir 🙂 not that travis wouldn't have githubbd some code snippets to it (could very well have, he ain't bad at this exactly) Nov 03 09:14:03 ..but this distinction needs to be made, no official telegram bridge instance exists :P Nov 03 09:14:35 not that there is that much need for such techwise like there is for single irc-bridge, for tech reasons... Nov 03 09:14:48 I don't know does any of this hgelp us in any freaking way tho... Nov 03 09:15:11 I wonder if there is any public discod-puppet bridge Nov 03 09:15:21 I feel so inclined to say sorry, while none of this is exactly my fault either 😆 Nov 03 09:16:52 I would love to see this working, but if things go like this every time with FN, shitstorms are going to happend all around :) Nov 03 09:17:41 You can also try matterbridge for bridging IRC Nov 03 09:17:54 maybe it's more reliable Nov 03 09:19:37 Like said, I'm starting to believe this is exactly man made issue, for whatever reasoning FN and matrixorg has together... And here I was happy for 3 years that no need for stoopid relaybots anymore (whenever possible, possible for irc for sure) Nov 03 09:23:40 I see none of us has Power Level over 100 in matrix.. I would have tried tamed irc-bot's permissions down, but can't do that on this channel either... There is ways to achieve that (new channel, higher PL for creator from get go, then bridge irc there, do magic with PL, bridge rest... but even all that wouldn't guarantee anything Nov 03 09:24:57 Sami Olmari: or Half-Shot can give higher PL's Nov 03 09:25:03 Would be fun experiment tho =) Nov 03 09:25:28 cos: could.. will he is another thing... (: Nov 03 09:28:53 I mean other than an bit matrix-channel jumping for matrix-persons it wouldn't be other than doing stuff, ircers, telegrams etc wouldn't even notice much =) Nov 03 09:29:37 Foremostly I'd love to see answers in matrixorg bridge channel, so far much silence =) Nov 03 09:31:02 ^did that message from theglasshatter got to irc? Nov 03 09:31:51 about 98 SE and such... (I don't see him getting same kicking behaviour, while still using telegram) Nov 03 09:32:48 This would then indicate not man made issue after all, but an issue still Nov 03 09:34:02 I don't know... we have bashed and babbled away half of the morning now... who at which times Nov 03 09:36:15 well at this point I'm not sure... Main issue is that (almost) every telegram puppet that "joined" to this channel when bridge was setupped this morning got immediate kick from irc-side "IRC connection failed" Nov 03 09:36:32 and repeats same behaviour when (almost) anyone from telegram says something here Nov 03 09:36:43 and makes said message not to to irc at all Nov 03 09:37:53 but freenode bridge is also on of the few bridges that is on matrixorg management, as for other tech reasons there can't exist 2 bridges on same room without other massive issues Nov 03 09:38:55 Look this image from time we bridged... Nov 03 09:38:56 https://matrix.hacklab.fi/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/mYngIiAfvtotUnWoAvEQqxWY Nov 03 09:41:09 it kept doing this whenever someone from TG said anything "join, say, got kiceked for ocnn issue" Nov 03 09:41:25 and not show anything on irc side Nov 03 09:41:54 it definately is an issue with matrixorg FN bridge, but is it something that will jsut go away on it's own or sometihng more sinister... Nov 03 09:43:21 there is so little I can do about it, as it is all on matrixorg side.. and for tech reasons I "can't" run own FN bridge either hacklab finland wise without causing another kind of crapstorming around either Nov 03 09:44:42 it makes up the handle with some logic, which I can't remember form memory.. and it also should work fine with clashing names, appending number to it or something alike so that ins't reason either Nov 03 09:44:46 or shouldn't be Nov 03 09:45:06 at the same time existing FN bridges, with multiple networks, seems to carry on working just fine too Nov 03 09:45:31 so it's not like universally freenode bridging isn't working, either :) Nov 03 09:46:45 yep... and as FN bridge is o nmatrixorg I can't see anything meaningful either, which makes me more angry too :P Nov 03 09:55:26 yep, sure looks like awfully "tiny" channel compared how it shoudl look after bridging Nov 03 09:56:50 theglasshatter: please say something, or anything :) Nov 03 09:58:40 no problem, I'm just trying to see whatever I could.. and no, you are also definately not going to irc side Nov 03 09:59:35 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (71KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/dgqeNUtbwjAFkglVFwLJaxzl/image.png > Nov 03 10:00:37 So it still seems to be not working on 100% of this channel bridging -.- Nov 03 10:00:48 or.. FN bridging to be exact Nov 03 10:03:38 So back to the thought that I feel this behaviour be exactly man-made as not everyting woe, but exactly "double bridging" seems to do it... yet old rooms bridged eons ago keeps working Nov 03 10:07:31 I have questions: I notice there's a Telegram bridge bot bot and the hacklabbridgebot here on matrix. So the hacklabbridgebot is on telegram too, what's the purpose of the Telegram bridge bot ? And when the message of a telegram user has already been relayed to matrix, how is it relayed to irc? Is the matrix message relayed to irc, or is the telegram message relayed to irc directly, somehow? I also noticed there was Nov 03 10:07:31 an error message when Sami Olmari set up the bridge about there already being one or something. Nov 03 10:09:24 Observation: The telegram bridge bot is apparently not in the telegram channel. Nov 03 10:11:24 Telegram bridge bot is matrix side for the bot-instance, it mainly eats commands and "obviously" sees messages that it then relays to telegram side with the hacklabbridgebot which is boths telegram side representation (as there is no way of doing ghosts puppets on telegram)... for matrix side there exist real user handle for every telegram user on this channel... and then those for irc side should be seen as any other Nov 03 10:11:25 matrix user, having an "real" userhandle per user, irc-bridge shouldn't know or care how they exist on matrix-room, but apparently it does, by whatever methods Nov 03 10:11:48 TauPan: Telegram bridge bot is the Matrix side bot, hacklabbridgebot is on tg side. Nov 03 10:12:09 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (20KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/VKKirQFQftKokbkDrkTnrRcO/image.png > Nov 03 10:12:10 It's there Nov 03 10:13:34 Telegram bridge bot is named "matrix bridge" on telegram? Nov 03 10:14:01 Oh, right, sorry. Nov 03 10:14:12 yep, because that what it is 🙂 (naming is hard, yo 😀 ) Nov 03 10:14:19 Indeed ;) Nov 03 10:14:29 (2 hard problems...) Nov 03 10:17:00 * TauPan[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/KWJNZDJapYIYSARVjaEqsCiL/message.txt > Nov 03 10:18:00 not really.. it was saying that "portal" already existed, which was true, I was on the telegram room through matrix, which makes it an portal in this case Nov 03 10:18:33 delete-and-contnue nuked the old portal room from matrix side and carried on making the current one new portal Nov 03 10:19:32 Ok. Just curious. Nov 03 10:21:16 All this bridging makes suddenly more sense logically when one realises that in essence matrix still knows about exactly matrix only, while for example irc still knows irc only.. bridge software is the thing handling userhandles for both sides that is talked over bridge, etc Nov 03 10:21:49 "olmari the matrix user said something, I need to say this on irc with olmari's irc handle" Nov 03 10:22:20 bot entities aren't strictly even needed for that, but those are there for taking in commands and on some cases relaying stuff (like inside telegram) Nov 03 10:22:34 ...where ghost puppeting (or something alike) is not possible to do Nov 03 10:25:18 Hm, the telegram puppet also gets kicked from the matrix room. Nov 03 10:27:34 mm.. because I think this (matrix) room is originally the irc portal room... so the ircbot has admin priviledges.. and as we see it's also unhappy about anything... Nov 03 10:27:57 crap this.. I'll make my own roo mwith blackjack and hookers! :) Nov 03 10:28:18 if greguu is awake that is, we'd start from that (need irc OP to okay new bridging when happends) Nov 03 10:28:35 this way we can have any control over irc-matrix-bot Nov 03 10:28:58 mainly make it less able to ef us around Nov 03 10:30:04 Also, doing that I can confortably say I've tried everythign in my powers to make this unholy situation go away, that shouldn't even be an thing really Nov 03 10:31:09 I mean, why does matrixorg and/or FN hate peoples so much is the root question :) Nov 03 10:32:50 I know it might or even propably do nothing for the exact propblem to do what I proposed, other than give generally control over any bot now or in future Nov 03 10:33:23 solving arbitary FN issue, not that likely, but also we can never know until tried :D Nov 03 13:16:02 Sami Olmari: Hm, this issue (opened by you) https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/909#issuecomment-562984460 at least gives me the information that FN apparently has limited connection slots for matrix.org. If this is the case, an irc op or admin might be able to help. Nov 03 13:16:35 (found it by googling for the error message) Nov 03 13:19:59 That they do have, which is part of the issue(s), but at that time it was different cause... it was not kicking by conn err, but arbitary other reasons... TBH I don't remember exactly anymore, but at least mentioned reasoning on channel was not "connection fialed".. not that I can still say what the exact reason was, for then it was enough to do what I suggested we do here too... make proper matrix room with Nov 03 13:19:59 more-than-better power level for human admin ,so that we can then strip appservice bot from being able to kick users.. Nov 03 13:20:53 That is only sane human control, but it does not help should there still be actual issue with connection, or FN outright rejecting something Nov 03 13:21:45 ..well.. I'd gladly do something else than FN too, but that is also not mine fight to battle either Nov 03 13:25:12 Well in that issue, connection error is mentioned explicitly, also in the log of this room, I see lots of connection errors. Also when I try to talk from Telegram I always get "IRC connection failure" as kick reason. Also, giving the appservice bot too low PL was exactly recommend against and also stated as not solving the issue, because the users will still not be able to Nov 03 13:25:12 connect, but the bot just won't have power to kick them, as far as I understand the comment I linked to, of course. Nov 03 13:28:38 well... to that issue we had earlier it was exactly the needed thing to do, because we didn't wan't appservice-orc to randoml toss someone out that wasn't even expecting it to happend Nov 03 13:30:08 HellKaim: something shitty i nmatrixorg FN bridge, in addition to appservice-irc owning matrix-side room, which isn't malicious etc, but also gives humans no ultimate control over the channel ever :) Nov 03 13:30:48 ..and way too much babbling about what I'd like to do, affecting directly the issue at hand or not Nov 03 13:32:38 yes and no.. not directly, but wouldn't exactly suprise if it would actually work, depending what thing exactly keeps kicking telegrammers out Nov 03 13:34:11 HellKaim: and none of your messages goes through to bridged irc channel Nov 03 13:35:17 Well, I can very reliably reproduce an "IRC connection failure" kick reason whenever I talk from telegram. And as far as I've understood it, the issue causing the "connection failure" will not be solved by removing power from the appservice bot. Nov 03 13:35:20 This is how pure irc sees stuff Nov 03 13:35:22 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (184KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/GAVSxObfViPvzSWnVbQLmHYr/image.png > Nov 03 13:36:45 HellKaim: there is exactly issue of FN-matrix bridge kicking telegrammess out at first sight Nov 03 13:37:15 rootcause of that is unkonwn, as we have no logs as they're on matrixorg if anywhere Nov 03 13:37:18 freenode Nov 03 13:37:49 TauPan: depends exactly from root cause of "connection issue"... no amount of PL fiddling will make _real_ connection issue magically go away, but it will make appservice-bot not to kick out persons willy nilly Nov 03 13:38:09 which was root cause on the earlier issue in github Nov 03 13:38:47 Ok. That was a different issue, I get that. It's just that part of the explanation in the comment seems relevant. Nov 03 13:41:00 as an matrixorg representative half-shot has no better reasoning, he "has to say so", so to speak, and partly his explanation is even true.. but even al that stems from some weird ass man-made connection limits that someone(s) doesn't want to give more Nov 03 13:42:54 the issue (that we had back then) was also that as our channels are bridged to here and there, there are plenty, say, telegram users that suddenly got kicked out from room, becuase some freenode bot was jaelous Nov 03 13:44:19 indeed... when we did that back then, everything has worked fine afterwards, sans some occasional real hiccup that affects everyone everywhere, which then returns to normal without human intervention Nov 03 13:45:15 Like said, PL hindering will not obviously help if there is legimate connection issue, but it wouldn't also kick telegrammers out from room for no reason Nov 03 13:45:43 <_telegram_79 "no, I did not do any explicit li"> his is my matrix user and I can see my TG message here Nov 03 13:45:52 * This is my matrix user and I can see my TG message here Nov 03 13:46:36 <_telegram_79 "so am I right that we might have"> I'd say when we run out of ideas how we might fix this, we should kill the bridge for the time being. Until then, we can live with the broken bridge for testing and debugging. If people get annoyed we should probably move to a different channel for experimentation however. Nov 03 13:47:20 Yep, stop the bridge until there's a solution. Maybe bridge to another (non-irc) room? Nov 03 13:48:18 well I can easily also do telegram room separately with mine matrix-telgram (aka like it was just before), but yeah... Nov 03 13:48:50 we could also setup some testing to see ow stuff behaves nowadays with PL mangling Nov 03 13:48:53 Since irc is causing the issues, we should experiment in a new room. Maybe with blackjack, but definitely with irc. Nov 03 13:50:03 testing is easy enough, linking this actual room "agian" if needed is also easy enough, when irc OP is awake (which would be greguu ), should testing be nay beneficial Nov 03 13:51:12 I'd understand matrixorg <> FN limits when there would be some real issues with connections, but this is pure man made issue between FN and matrixorg (based on what has bee nsaid about it i nthe past) Nov 03 13:51:59 <_telegram_10 "@HellKaim is your telegram accou"> Testing Nov 03 13:52:27 IRC doesn't handle... it re-sends the message with some * notion or whatnot in edit, for deletion.. much of nothign can be done Nov 03 13:53:23 I'll unbridge the TG for now.. Nov 03 13:53:36 thanks Nov 03 13:53:38 Bye Telegram! sniff Nov 03 13:54:10 !tg unbridge Nov 03 13:54:10 >Telegrambridgebo< Please confirm unbridging chat "Gemini & Cosmo PDA" from room [#_telegram_GeminiPDA:hacklab.fi](https://matrix.to/#/!zLjulQOYkIkjWVnsoW:matrix.org) by typing `!tg confirm-unbridge` Nov 03 13:54:20 !tg confirm-unbridge Nov 03 13:54:39 blib blob Nov 03 13:54:48 So those were the users that were successfully bridged, apparently. Nov 03 13:55:02 Exactly 20. Nov 03 13:55:34 seems like it, maybe... or "unsuccesfully kicked out" is also an option there, Nov 03 13:55:57 sounds like man-made limit Nov 03 13:56:03 Well HellKaim could talk and was not kicked. But he also didn't appear on irc. Nov 03 13:56:46 Not certain both phenomena have the same cause, is what I'm saying... Nov 03 13:57:37 Yes. Exactly 20 is a suspicious number here. Nov 03 13:58:29 I mean all this crap and mumbling stems from man made connection limit, that is exactly true... but as we have no logs for matrixorg freenode bridge we can't know rootcause for reason we see kicks happening Nov 03 14:00:57 I think the reason for connection failures is more interesting and would require help from freenode support staff. Nov 03 14:01:14 If kicks still happen after that has been solved, there's probably another issue. Nov 03 14:02:12 Without evidence I'm now almost certain this is very purposeful man made lmit... is it occurs exactly for telegram connections, Nov 03 14:02:43 Well element and telegram are competitors, aren't they? Nov 03 14:02:51 if bridge would hit some other hard limit we'd see issues with other connectiosn too, not just exactly only telegram ones Nov 03 14:03:20 that doesn't have anythign to do with this one... connections to telegram works Nov 03 14:03:39 Hm, correct. Nov 03 14:05:05 telegram even has API's and whatnot for others to do clients.. they're not hostile in general towards these kind of stuff... and even if they would, it would make peoples impossible to connect to telegram with their matrix, and then awhatever would stem from that :) Nov 03 14:15:18 element is just a matrix client and matrix is a open standard protocol, it doesn't have any modern competitors Nov 03 14:16:27 how is IRC? now it works as expected? Nov 03 14:19:12 irc works as irc works, irc hsan't exactly been not working :) Nov 03 14:23:28 I mean the relay... Nov 03 14:27:20 well I'm here, too Nov 03 14:27:56 ..and so are you, from pure irc perspective Nov 03 14:39:15 Matrix <-> IRC bridge has always worked Nov 03 15:59:14 Lots of those in IRC: TauPan[m] (taupanmatr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-dydwvqgtnmmftpym) hat den IRC verlassen (Quit: Bridge terminating on SIGTERM) Nov 03 15:59:28 IRC bridge is down, apparently. Nov 03 15:59:38 Ups, up again ;) Nov 03 21:51:24 for here too, might or might not relate to ours: Nov 03 21:51:25 * olmari uploaded an image: image.png (20KiB) < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/hacklab.fi/rjrWiyfNVDSDRcxZymZqZfMM/image.png > **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 04 02:59:57 2020