**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 04 02:59:57 2020
Nov 04 09:49:11 <varti[m]> hi, catching now up with all that has happened in the previous days :)
Nov 04 09:49:46 <cos-> telegram bridging failed thanks to freenode issues
Nov 04 09:50:49 <olmari> It might or might not have been relating to that apparently new failure thing happening apparently at the same time we tried (:
Nov 04 10:13:09 <TauPan> olmari: Did you receive a reply to your question on the bridge support channel? Would it make sense to try again?
Nov 04 10:14:11 <olmari> not really an answer directly, but look at the screenshot above
Nov 04 10:14:57 <TauPan> Yeah. inconclusive if we've been hit by that exact failure mode
Nov 04 10:15:20 <TauPan> But probably it's faster to retry and fail again than to ask.
Nov 04 10:15:51 * TauPan goes into his bunker with 500 cans of ravioli.
Nov 04 10:20:16 <olmari> here we go, again
Nov 04 10:20:34 >Telegrambridgeb4< Hello, I'm a Telegram bridge bot. Use `!tg help` for help.
Nov 04 10:20:38 <olmari> !tg bridge -1001370153415
Nov 04 10:20:38 >Telegrambridgeb4< That Telegram chat already has a portal at [#_telegram_GeminiPDA:hacklab.fi](https://matrix.to/#/!acTnhiSbKLOVNFifQE:hacklab.fi). However, you have the permissions to unbridge that room.
Nov 04 10:20:38 >Telegrambridgeb4< To delete that portal completely and continue bridging, use `!tg delete-and-continue`. To unbridge the portal without kicking Matrix users, use `!tg unbridge-and-continue`. To cancel, use `!tg cancel`
Nov 04 10:20:44 <olmari> !tg delete-and-continue
Nov 04 10:20:44 >Telegrambridgeb4< Cleaning up previous portal room...
Nov 04 10:20:46 >Telegrambridgeb4< Bridging complete. Portal synchronization should begin momentarily.
Nov 04 10:22:02 <cos-> that looks much healthier than previous attempt
Nov 04 10:22:17 <cos-> Hello from Matrix!
Nov 04 10:22:23 <olmari> much better start
Nov 04 10:22:34 <TauPan> Hello from IRC!
Nov 04 10:23:37 <cos-> I guess it's done.. Discord is the last isolated island, anyone heard anything from that side?
Nov 04 10:23:53 <TauPan[m]> Congratulations! It worked!
Nov 04 10:24:59 <TauPan> Ups... I still don't see messages from Telegram users on IRC. :-(
Nov 04 10:27:17 <olmari> hmm.. indeed that seems still to be an thing... so did we actually hit 2 separate issues yesterday... some fancy new failure mode AND some man made restriction
Nov 04 10:28:29 <olmari> because indeed no new handles is seen on irc side
Nov 04 10:28:49 <olmari> for ... sake
Nov 04 10:31:04 <varti[m]> Sami Olmari: thanks for all your hard work on the TG bridge, much appreciated
Nov 04 10:31:39 <varti[m]> if it helps, I'm also OP on the IRC channel, greguu is rarely online lately
Nov 04 10:31:47 <olmari> varti: well "work" would be easy in this case, ought the damned thing actually bridge... or.. to be more exact, irc bridge to bridge everything
Nov 04 10:33:07 <varti[m]> yes, I have now read everything... it's quite a headache :/
Nov 04 10:34:09 <olmari> lots of babbling... but the TL;DR seems to be that apart some amazing new failure mode, there is plenty man-made restrictions in place with matrixorg<>FN that affects stuff
Nov 04 10:34:53 <olmari> now at least telegrammers etc doesn't get actually kicked etc, but nonetheless shit seems to intentionally fail
Nov 04 10:35:33 <varti[m]> ok... if you need OP on IRC, just ask me
Nov 04 10:37:33 <olmari> well, we could still test with new matrix room and plumbing irc and givin less power to irc-matrix-bot.. While that would generally be sanest approach unrelated to specific issue here, I doubt it would change this actual specific issue anywhere
Nov 04 10:39:27 <olmari> varti: what kind of mode(s) are there set on irc side here? 🙂
Nov 04 10:40:00 <TauPan> Modus #gemini-pda [+cgnt] looks ok for me.
Nov 04 10:41:30 <olmari> yeah.. I'm reading about modes and best practices etc involving matrix-users, but none of that is that early where no users exist on irc side
Nov 04 10:42:33 <olmari> well, bannning unidentified users might be, but I don't see that mode on
Nov 04 10:42:46 <TauPan[m]> And @appservice-irc:matrix.org would be responsible for briding the telegram users to irc? I'm puzzled because we have two bots. Is there some way to configure that maybe users with _telegram do or do not get bridged to irc?
Nov 04 10:42:46 <olmari> https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/wiki/End-user-FAQ#i-am-a-chanop-and-have-a-spam-problem-how-can-i-fix-it-without-affecting-matrix-users is what I'm scanning through
Nov 04 10:45:23 <olmari> TauPan: well there is generally an bot for a network-pair... bot itself isn't even needed on irc side for anythign to work, as bridge software can just make real user-handle in irc, which is what it is supposed to do and even does so in general case, as I' m talking here as irc-user (on irc channel side) and so is some other real matrix users, and even tg bot precence is there as it is "old" user in irc anyways, existing
Nov 04 10:45:23 <olmari> for plenty channels for hacklabs
Nov 04 10:47:50 <olmari> while it could have such regex ban in place, there is nothing said anywhere about such policy be in place
Nov 04 10:50:47 <olmari> obviously _something_ is effed up somehow, but like before, TL;DR is that FN bridge is hosted by matrixorg and "can't" be sanely hosted oneself, and thus we don't have any logs for that, nor ways of knowing exactly what setup and settings it might or might not have, sinister or not
Nov 04 10:52:16 <TauPan[m]> Hm.
Nov 04 10:56:08 <olmari> At an hour I will be at business-lunch, after that I shall make new matrix-channel for this and then we'll set irc-bridge up like babbled before, and test "one last time" rest of bridging, then I'm happy with things I've at leat tried, and tested all we could, and see how would it behave nowadays.. Even if nothing changes bridging wise, it still will be giving all control to humans and not bot owning the channel, so that
Nov 04 10:56:08 <olmari> is an win at any case
Nov 04 10:56:40 <olmari> only thing that really sees any real.. "turbulence".. would be matrix users :)
Nov 04 10:57:34 <olmari> should that be okay with varti :)
Nov 04 11:00:09 <olmari> or.. well.. varti, or irc-OP we need for plumb-bridging the channel again, to answer "yes" to bot =D
Nov 04 11:02:05 <TauPan[m]> Btw. there's a difference between channel op and irc op privileges. As I said earlier we might require assistance from IRC ops or IRC administrators (i.e. freenode staff) and/or matrix bridge admins.
Nov 04 11:02:29 <olmari> no we don't... channel op is "only" needed
Nov 04 11:03:05 <olmari> (and yes I'm not always likely saying exactly correct terms.. as every network/IM platform has own set of terms, always clashing with the other ones 😀 )
Nov 04 11:03:34 <varti[m]> I think that the simplest way is to OP Sami Olmari on IRC... what is your nick there, olmari, olmari_realirc (most probably :) ) or... ?
Nov 04 11:04:21 <olmari> well, this "olmari" is main one, _realirc and alike is when I need to see exactly what is going on on "real" irc side :)
Nov 04 11:04:42 <olmari> so this "olmari" would be correct and permanent one
Nov 04 11:05:11 <olmari> I can temp OP bisecting entities when needed, if needed :)
Nov 04 11:08:26 <VartiWork> done
Nov 04 11:08:51 <olmari> yayy :=)
Nov 04 11:09:23 <olmari> Or, thank you for trust in general, I suppose :)
Nov 04 11:10:55 <VartiWork> I can see you can be trusted from what you have done so far :)
Nov 04 11:12:10 <olmari> Next course of action is indeed to be silent for 2-4 hours, eat and hopefully talk some deals for myself, then back to hobbies :)
Nov 04 11:12:35 <olmari> gotta try to switch to "I'm the professional here" mode xD
Nov 04 11:15:41 <varti[m]> :D
Nov 04 11:16:29 <olmari> Perks... or burdens... of running own business
Nov 04 11:16:37 <olmari> or trying to at the leat
Nov 04 14:15:54 <olmari> HellKaim: like discussed somewhere earlier, we'd likely do some "general" channel to discord to bridge these existing ones (well, "the one channel" that we seem not to manage to bridge properly anyhow... .. .. . ...)
Nov 04 14:16:56 <olmari> nothign would stop genereating million rooms on matrix side too, nor even actually with any chat mediums that is used, totally different thing would any of those be meainngful :)
Nov 04 14:18:25 <cos-> I wouldn't want to have more than one room for this subject. It's just a phone.
Nov 04 14:18:54 <cos-> HellKaim: are you an admin on discord side?
Nov 04 14:24:11 <olmari> I do understand that way discord is set up and used it encourages to use it such way... I guess best way to do such thin in matrix would be when the darned "groups" or "communities" is finally really existing, to make similar setup meaningfully to matrix
Nov 04 14:24:43 <olmari> that still doesn't make blindly generating all rooms to all chat mediums and bridging them any saner, ofcourse
Nov 04 14:27:33 <cos-> just bridge the #general here
Nov 04 14:27:50 <olmari> Propably sanest idea in general (no pun indended)
Nov 04 14:28:22 <olmari> well.. first things first adn try the last resort for irc to behave, but yeah...
Nov 04 14:31:32 <TauPan[m]> Sami Olmari: If you need a guinea pig to try out things from Telegram/Matrix/IRC, I'm on all three sides.
Nov 04 14:33:50 * TauPan glances at /topic ... "Don't use a IRC & Matrix account at the same time!" ... Uhm, why not? I didn't notice that before, sorry!
Nov 04 14:34:10 <olmari> TauPan: eventually someone having powers to add bot at discord side is needed, that time is not ASAP.. not to make things any easier, Discord is renewing their API and some other related changes, appservice-discord coding is very much on some "need to get this working NOW" coding turbulence before old API is deprecated totally.. on.. umm.. was it 7th or 12th this month or something alike
Nov 04 14:34:54 <TauPan> I was talking about the Telegram -> Matrix -> IRC experiment in a different channel.
Nov 04 14:35:40 <olmari> TauPan: well... that is generally "sane" in sense that being wit hmatrix here will also give you irc here anyways, but that doesn't really stop anyone nor in sane world it shouldn't even matter that much
Nov 04 14:36:21 <olmari> TauPan: even that restriction ultimately stems from the same man made limits on the irc-bridge :D
Nov 04 15:15:45 <olmari> lol.. we jsut got the "same" error on more or less all the telegrammers that we did last time.. this time it only took hours and then all at once ":D"
Nov 04 15:21:27 <olmari> !tg unbridge
Nov 04 15:21:27 >Telegrambridgeb4< Please confirm unbridging chat "Gemini & Cosmo PDA" from room [#_telegram_GeminiPDA:hacklab.fi](https://matrix.to/#/!zLjulQOYkIkjWVnsoW:matrix.org) by typing `!tg confirm-unbridge`
Nov 04 15:21:35 <olmari> !tg confirm-unbridge
Nov 04 15:22:20 <olmari> I unbridged this from tg.. again.. because stil boom.. just delayed one this time, compared to yesterdays.. huoh....
Nov 04 15:26:32 <flux> so if we unbridge freenode we could get tg in its place? maybe that room could be a new room altogether. #planetgemini-tg
Nov 04 15:39:43 <TauPan[m]> My reluctance to abandon #gemini-pda on freenode is waning.
Nov 04 15:40:23 <TauPan[m]> flux: Do you mean one room/channel bridged to matrix + freenode and another one bridged to matrix + telegram?
Nov 04 15:40:31 <flux> yes
Nov 04 15:40:53 <flux> it is the combination that breaks the hell loose, right?
Nov 04 15:41:00 <TauPan[m]> It seems so.
Nov 04 15:44:47 <olmari> well... we can generate as many new matrix rooms we like, and set up same alias name than any existing one, without ever really touching the irc room... At the very moment I'm first inclined still to setup new matrix-room anyway, then plumb the irc room there, then test the darnit telegram to that... after restults we either die happy or do whatever we need to, this time there is power for us to ditch the irc too that does
Nov 04 15:44:47 <olmari> not exist in current matrix room (as appservice irc has admin privs on the room too and no one has more power... well.. unless the room is already once plumbed, but that is also separate take on the whole bridging saga and sane power levest etc, anyways
Nov 04 15:45:21 <olmari> "combination", yes, still very much the irc-bridge that is shitting to our livingroom :)
Nov 04 15:46:10 <olmari> ..none of times when I ask sometihng in the actual bridge bot room something, it gets eerily silent xD
Nov 04 15:57:35 <varti[m]> just curious... is there any Telegram-IRC bridge around? Maybe we could just ditch the Matrix-IRC one and see if a TG-IRC one works
Nov 04 15:59:51 <cos-> That wouldn't work, as you need i-lines from freenode to get lot of users from single IP.
Nov 04 16:05:25 <cos-> I'd vote for tg+matrix channel.. join with irc when the bridge starts working properly.
Nov 04 16:08:23 <varti[m]> I agree
Nov 04 16:24:40 <olmari> mm... throw discord to it too, with its "general", tho discord-bridge is also at turbulence for new API and deprecating old, so that nothing seems to be exactly fine and dandy at this moment ":D"
Nov 04 16:27:17 <cos-> Hey what if i implement good-enough-for-irc matrix-matrix-relaybot and we set it up between the freenode & other room? Relaybots suck but that would be a working temporary solution.
Nov 04 16:32:11 <olmari> back to old school.. unless new room (happening soon'ish, in an hour or so) makes any difference, for irc I see there will be no other sane method until peoples sitting on arbitary decisions that break everything comes to senses
Nov 04 16:41:04 <olmari> Above likely making no difference in that, immediate options for irc room bridging are mainly "ditch freenode and go to ircnet" or some form of iffy actual relaybot
Nov 04 17:25:47 <olmari_irc> Now lets see... first order of tinkering, unlink current irc room :)
Nov 04 17:26:34 <olmari_irc> (pong)
Nov 04 17:30:17 <olmari> varti: `You are not authorized to (de)op olmari_irc on #gemini-pda.` so instead of "just" OP, I'd need actual... what was the proper irc terminology... (freenode) opping grants in channel
Nov 04 17:33:22 <olmari> Before such I am unwilling to do anything potentially breaking, that I can't then fix =)
Nov 04 19:56:09 <cos-> Relay bridge done, so now we could create the matrix-tg-discord room and use it to bridge IRC until it can be properly bridged. https://github.com/vranki/hemppa#relay-bridge
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 05 02:59:57 2020