**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Nov 05 02:59:57 2020
Nov 05 07:35:38 <TauPan[m]> <olmari "varti: `You are not authorized t"> I suspect you need chanop status with ChanServ (`/query ChanServ access #gemini-pda list`) and probably with the user actually logged into irc for real, i.e. not via relay.
Nov 05 07:37:08 <olmari> TauPan: it is real registered user.. I know it is some command to chanserv or alike (form current user that does have power to give power)
Nov 05 07:37:31 <olmari> "olmari" in irc is as real as any irc-user :)
Nov 05 07:38:50 <olmari> bridge is called "puppeting bridge" for a reason :)
Nov 05 07:42:57 <TauPan[m]> Channel op status should be enough then. I'm not aware of any higher privilege than channel operator status that can be granted to a non-staff user. Freenode documentation is a bit skimpy, but I'm working from my general knowledge (on various irc networks since 1996).
Nov 05 07:44:28 <olmari> In FreeNode it's different to give single time "/OP olmari" or alike command onf channel and then some O flag (or whatever the real one was) through bot
Nov 05 07:45:35 <olmari> First one gives "adhoc" kicking capabilities while latter one gives power to (de)op other person too :)
Nov 05 07:46:03 <olmari> Likely some other nuances too, but relating to matter at hand :)
Nov 05 07:48:33 <olmari> "bot" being ChanServ or so, to clarify =)
Nov 05 08:03:56 <TauPan[m]> <olmari "varti: `You are not authorized t"> This is what you get if you try `/mode #gemini-pda +o olmari_irc` ?
Nov 05 08:05:49 <olmari> `OP #gemini-pda olmari_irc` to ChanServ actually, I guess I should try mode next =)
Nov 05 08:06:07 <TauPan[m]> (Or `!cmd MODE #gemini-pda +o olmari_irc` in a chat with @appservice-irc:matrix.org )
Nov 05 08:06:25 <olmari> Mine pure irc skills aren't the latest and greatest anymore, in 3 years one cna forget suprisingly lot :D
Nov 05 08:06:35 <TauPan[m]> You have no privileges on Chanserv, so chanserv will refuse that.
Nov 05 08:07:24 <TauPan[m]> ;)
Nov 05 08:07:33 <olmari_irc> thank you =)
Nov 05 08:08:31 <TauPan[m]> yw
Nov 05 08:08:33 <olmari> TBH, I did forget mode -way alltogether, oh well... Propably time to mess eferyting up one last time =)
Nov 05 08:08:54 <olmari> s/Propably/Now propably
Nov 05 08:33:17 <olmari> flux: bridged? not even
Nov 05 08:33:34 <olmari> I specifically unlinked bridges before ;)
Nov 05 08:33:58 <TauPan[m]> Sami Olmari: Your user is still bridged to IRC, apparently.
Nov 05 08:34:09 <TauPan[m]> Oh, I am as well, sorry...
Nov 05 08:34:12 <olmari> and now added irc back, but this time with irc-bot less powerfull
Nov 05 08:34:27 * TauPan[m] ducks.
Nov 05 08:35:06 <olmari> So now we have allways the power ourselves and we can tame bots and whatever alike in the future too, even if nothing else :)
Nov 05 08:36:31 <olmari> now ircbot also has no kicking powers, so we can test the rest of bridging "one last time" and see if anything changes.. if not, then we likely take the relaybot that cos figured, in addition to telegram and discord #general, or so
Nov 05 08:37:22 <cos-> hey ho lets go
Nov 05 08:47:12 <olmari> !tg bridge -1001370153415
Nov 05 08:47:27 <olmari> meh... how about inviting that bot first =)
Nov 05 08:47:35 >Telegrambridgeb4< Hello, I'm a Telegram bridge bot. Use `!tg help` for help.
Nov 05 08:47:54 <olmari> !tg bridge -1001370153415
Nov 05 08:47:55 >Telegrambridgeb4< That Telegram chat already has a portal at [#_telegram_GeminiPDA:hacklab.fi](https://matrix.to/#/!uROxbJyqawdVXSkxCP:hacklab.fi). However, you have the permissions to unbridge that room.
Nov 05 08:47:55 >Telegrambridgeb4< To delete that portal completely and continue bridging, use `!tg delete-and-continue`. To unbridge the portal without kicking Matrix users, use `!tg unbridge-and-continue`. To cancel, use `!tg cancel`
Nov 05 08:48:13 <olmari> !tg delete-and-continue
Nov 05 08:48:17 >Telegrambridgeb4< Cleaning up previous portal room...
Nov 05 08:48:17 >Telegrambridgeb4< Bridging complete. Portal synchronization should begin momentarily.
Nov 05 08:49:20 <cos-> Welcome telegrammers (again)
Nov 05 08:49:32 <olmari> Still looks awfully quiet on irc side with users
Nov 05 08:50:47 <TauPan[m]> Message from my telegram user didn't get through to irc. Same problem as before.
Nov 05 08:51:25 <olmari> yep... seems that we did achieve nothign in that relation, then again I did not have high hopes for exactly that :)
Nov 05 08:51:59 <cos-> Ack, I suggest we do the second room & bridge IRC with relaybot until there's some official solution by FN or Half-Shot
Nov 05 08:58:16 <olmari> or just bridge em here? 🙂 anyway... For completeness sake maybe we ought to wait hour or few to see what does appservice do or doesn't now that it does not have powers to kick users (not that I really expect anything
Nov 05 08:59:13 <olmari> Also I'd hope the discord-bridge is ironed out soone enough (for discords new API and so on.. everything seems to be in turbulence, for different reasons 😀 )
Nov 05 09:14:57 <olmari> Not like this wasn't discussed earlier and even voted =)
Nov 05 09:15:18 <cos-> Well, it's a public channel so anyone can log it and forward messages anywhere they want. But yep, it could be mentioned in topic.
Nov 05 09:16:06 <olmari> Sure can, even sane thing to do... Humans still sometimes amazes me :P
Nov 05 09:19:38 <cos-> Also "God knows where with no control" -> "known services and we have complete control of the bridging".. It'll be most probably documented in forum post when finalized.
Nov 05 09:20:45 <olmari> True enough too :)
Nov 05 09:21:28 <olmari> Yes, still always an good points to bring out for public :)
Nov 05 09:21:58 <olmari> /pin
Nov 05 09:22:43 <olmari> gee, thanks bot ;P not that I was trying to click around in telegram to see all pinned messages ;D
Nov 05 09:27:10 <olmari> I changed topic to
Nov 05 09:27:10 <olmari> `General discussion for the Planet Computers' Gemini (unofficial) | irc.freenode.org: #gemini-pda | Bridged to Matrix, TG, IRC. Discord soon | https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showforum=192 | https://www.reddit.com/r/geminipda/ | https://geminiplanet.com/category/news/ | Note: this channel provides live and archived logs (via IRC): http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/gemini-pda.txt` in matrix and IRC, can't do that on
Nov 05 09:27:10 <olmari> TG as I'm no admin and neither is hacklab bridge bot :)
Nov 05 09:29:38 <olmari> BTW, not strictly needed in normal operations, but giving matrixbot moderator privs in telegram can streamlime moderation events when needed
Nov 05 09:31:08 <varti[m]> Sami Olmari: BTW the OESF link is no longer valid, although it works since the forum by default redirects to the main page in case of an invalid link. The "forum=192" part was the link to the Gemini subforum on the old forum, the syntax of the subforums' links have now changed
Nov 05 09:31:33 <olmari> well.. what is the new one? :)
Nov 05 09:31:58 <varti[m]> IMHO better to just link to https://www.oesf.org , and while we are at it: "Planet Computers' Cosmo and Gemini"
Nov 05 09:32:34 <varti[m]> or, in order to skip the redirection, https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?act=home
Nov 05 09:33:51 <olmari> The shorted the topic, the better :)
Nov 05 09:34:22 <olmari> is now
Nov 05 09:34:23 <olmari> `General discussion for the Planet Computers' Cosmo and Gemini (unofficial) | irc.freenode.org: #gemini-pda | Bridged to Matrix, TG, IRC. Discord soon | https://www.oesf.org | https://www.reddit.com/r/geminipda/ | https://geminiplanet.com/category/news/ | Note: this channel provides live and archived logs (via IRC): http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/gemini-pda.txt` for the folks playing at home :)
Nov 05 09:41:48 <olmari> Deadman96385: bridges know what puppet is what in their own platform
Nov 05 09:42:21 <olmari> one bridge knows both sides, matrix and TG for TG bot, etc
Nov 05 09:46:15 <olmari> and the gist is that, should spammer get with telegram, someone at irc could just kick it away, bridge would know eactly who it is and can "bridge" the kick too.. or that would be the general flow
Nov 05 09:46:41 <olmari> aside irc-bridge being apeshit at the moment, but in general works to any network
Nov 05 09:48:55 <olmari> What is that? current moderation system that is.. generally if puppet has neccesary powers in "other" side, puppet will be the "kicking part", rest of cases bridge bot having proper privileges, that will kick the offending part out
Nov 05 09:50:01 <olmari> when working good, it doesn't need that special commands AFAIK, it just sees admin/mod/whatever kicking someone and replicates it across (same with message deletions etc, where applicable)
Nov 05 09:53:26 <olmari> well, if Rose bans someone, bridges will too, given that either users puppet has privileges on other side, or  bridge bot itself has (the latter part is what we are really talking about with giving bridge bot any mod rights), Those should work just fine across bridges as is
Nov 05 09:56:17 <olmari> if rose can take commands from me as i ntelegram, I can issue commands too from here.. telegram itself is the boring one here where there is no means to do puppets by bridge bot (thus relay) like seen with varti and cos messges on TG, not entirely sure how could we incorporate rose-commands to anyone outside telegram as is, but I don't see that being the main issue with all this :)
Nov 05 09:58:52 <olmari> not-able-to-puppet is somewhat big achilles heel for telegram beign perfectly bridgeable :D
Nov 05 10:01:47 <olmari> Not sure is there much to be needed.. rose banning peoples should already bridge perfectly fine
Nov 05 10:02:03 <cos-> I suppose nothing needs to be done. Rose kicks spammers and it'll be bridged to other messengers.
Nov 05 10:02:53 <cos-> Those will be bridged to messengers supporting deletion.
Nov 05 10:03:25 <cos-> IRC doesn't, others do
Nov 05 10:03:26 <olmari> bridge will redact those as well AFAIK.. bridge bot generally just replicates what is happening on the room.. it does have moderation rights on matrix side so that should flow jsut fine
Nov 05 10:04:11 <olmari> and after that same thing will replicate to any other possible bridge as well, again where supported ofcourse
Nov 05 10:05:28 <olmari> giving matrix-bridge mod rights on TG will make it possible for ircer or discorder to kick telegram spammer, and that would work (ofcourse not touching rose then, but I don't think that is indeed possible to achieve easily within current system
Nov 05 10:08:51 <olmari> (well, again with caveat stuff normally working, in which case irc is not at the moment, but I guess that is mentioned enough times now 😀 )
Nov 05 10:11:35 <olmari> fabianwoods: TL;DR: for perfect deletion / kicking to work from "any other bridged network" if needed to happend, above is lnger babble about how all this works :)
Nov 05 10:13:04 <olmari> it does not mean everyone can kick anyone, but if person has power to delete message or kick someone on "a" network, bridge will honor that and replicate to telegram side too (in in case of telegram)
Nov 05 10:17:50 <olmari> For general knowlege: for any matrix-bridge, an bridge instance knows "both sides" it is bridging, userhandles, message flows, etc, and it maps userhandles in between (where possible, with tg it's possible to matrix but not to telegram), so for matrix-room all users are generally just matrix users, matrix itself cares nor knows anything but matrix... introduce second bot which will do exactly same for it's network, making
Nov 05 10:17:50 <olmari> all users seemingly have user handles on "everywhere", users doing stuff replicates to best of networks abilities, and deletions/kicks will be bridged by bot itself given permissions to do that, when nothing else is possible
Nov 05 10:21:47 <olmari> I'm seen as real telegram user as I have specifically logged in to mine TG within matrix and the same bridge-instance that is bridging this channel now too :)
Nov 05 10:34:13 <TauPan[m]> Would be nice if anybody could log on to telegram with the relay bot, but it will not talk to me. I think it was lack of resources, iirc?
Nov 05 10:36:48 <cos-> TauPan: you mean bridge bot? It's private to hacklab.fi users. Not sure if we could do exception easily..
Nov 05 10:36:49 <olmari> TauPan: well, as hacklab finland we can offer our bridge instances for finnish hackerspaces members use, we have no resources to offer it globally for everyone... I'm not sure how much could be bend the rules for good guys, there is no established model to that
Nov 05 10:37:33 <olmari> "one" is always easy as face value, that usually opens the can of worms too
Nov 05 10:38:57 <olmari> bridging channels is easy, I want it, cos want it, and generally accepted and welcomed idea, so that poses no issues :)
Nov 05 10:39:52 <TauPan[m]> ok, no problem
Nov 05 10:47:23 <olmari> One "last" comment to generally telegram things, because it has enough point in my books.. Already said at least twice I think, but here goes: I'd put the telegram group as "private" group, as it will merely mean group can't be found and joined within search inside telegram, but from invite link and ofcourse direct invites... With that goes the fact that Pretty much no human ever will search the group from telegra, but
Nov 05 10:47:23 <olmari> finds the link and whatnot in web-pages etc, when looking generally stuff about the subject (gemini, cosmo, astro in this case)..
Nov 05 10:47:54 <olmari> all public group (in telegram terms) does is to allow spambots to autojoin and spam =)
Nov 05 10:48:30 <olmari> There, I've said what I have to say about that issue, I shall not speak about it anytime soon again, unless really wanted to, ofcours e:)
Nov 05 11:09:06 <olmari> Apart for example oesf specifically not having link to TG here, but "search this group", I could alomost certainly bet that more or less 0 person here (there can always be exception, ofcourse) is specifically found here with telegram itself, but from websites etc digging around generally about Planet computer stuff :)
Nov 05 13:56:19 <cos-> Anyone tried linux lately with cosmo? I was wondering if it can be made to work nowadays.. I set up the partition when I got the phone but it would never boot.
Nov 05 15:41:09 <TauPan[m]> Soo, I've given in and installed weechat-matrix, so I don't care any more if Telegram isn't bridged to irc. :-P
Nov 05 15:44:09 <olmari> :D
Nov 05 15:46:18 <olmari> we'll have the workaroundsoon enough, at the least (or as last resort obviously nothing)
Nov 05 15:56:32 <olmari> Obviously I also don't mean any of thee as bullying tactics, just have figured out that telegrams and humans tend to work like that :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Nov 06 02:59:57 2020