**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 16 02:59:56 2020
Dec 16 10:18:21 * ArcusBot[m] sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/zbIjzdgHIUydPZjPXjUmTJrj/message.txt >
Dec 16 10:23:54 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_47729839:hacklab.fi> > <@flux:matrix.org> IIRC the Nokia phones were quite good at that. so it's doable! but in this case it's a bit more complex structure, given how it goes flat at the end
Dec 16 10:23:54 <ArcusBot[m]> The E7 “springs” to mind
Dec 16 10:25:07 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> The mechanism in the N950 was pretty great, but also wouldn't work for something where the keyboard takes up the majority of the size of the device
Dec 16 10:25:11 <ArcusBot[m]> <@flux:matrix.org> I don't think I ever used that.. only 9000, 9200i, N800, N900
Dec 16 10:26:33 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> > <Fabian> The E7 “springs” to mind
Dec 16 10:26:33 <ArcusBot[m]> Oh right, yeah, that one's very similar to the E7's one :)
Dec 16 10:27:11 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> (which in turn is very similar to the f(x) hinge, which isn't surprising given who's behind the industrial design there)
Dec 16 10:29:20 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> There we go, some shots of the hinge here - http://mynokiablog.com/2011/06/22/video-and-gallery-nokia-n950-hands-on-and-side-by-side-with-nokia-n9/
Dec 16 10:38:29 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> From daily usability standpoint I hope Astros hinge would be rigid in that way that I can easily push the lid open without me needing to "push exactly on these 2 spots and apply exactly even force to everywhere otherwise janking"
Dec 16 10:39:14 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> i suspect it'll end up being a case of "totally doable, just need to push this very exact spot right between the hinges", but we'll see :)
Dec 16 10:40:41 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> mm... so exactly opposite what I told, unless you're PR-person ;D
Dec 16 10:42:16 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> Worst case though, i suspect you'd be able to do it sort of... inverted, by holding the base in the palm of your hand, holding the end with a thumb, and pushing the display with, say, your index, middle, and ring fingers...
Dec 16 10:42:42 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> i suspect it'll likely be better than that, but that's just my blind optimism ;)
Dec 16 10:43:10 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> translation: "worst case scenario: you are able to open the lid" (well slide in this case, not the point)
Dec 16 10:43:15 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> xD
Dec 16 10:43:43 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> If you /insist/ on being negative, sure, that's an interpretation you can make ;)
Dec 16 10:44:59 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> Well... Premise was that I'd be able to open the lid without needing to be exact every time I do it... :D
Dec 16 10:46:21 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> That's kind of what i mean, though, with that arguably odd upside-downish grip i was suggesting up there, basically that would be... pretty easy, fast, and consistent, just not really obvious :)
Dec 16 10:47:04 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> What i meant by worst case is "you'll need to hold it weirdly, but it'll work fine" :)
Dec 16 10:47:48 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> and drop it after developing arthritis? ;D
Dec 16 10:48:17 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> But as with all these things, i'm hoping to be surprised, i just like to identify the most likely worst-cases, not the literally-bursts-into-flames type worst case, because that's just... not useful ;)
Dec 16 10:48:45 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> Aah, moving goal posts, i see! ;)
Dec 16 10:49:43 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> Anyway, look forward to having it in my hands :)
Dec 16 10:49:49 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> I did not also meant that exactly every oddball opening angle should always work, but generally usable device needs to work so that every time opening one does not need concentration or otherwise hocus pocus methods :D
Dec 16 10:50:13 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari> at this poine, me too, as money was already spent on the first day :D
Dec 16 10:50:21 <ArcusBot[m]> <Sami Olmari>  * at this point, me too, as money was already spent on the first day :D
Dec 16 10:59:07 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> Oh sure, this is more a kind of... if that works for one-handed opening, i'm cool with that, since usually if i'm flipping out the keyboard it'll be for two handed typing (either two thumbs or some fingers, in my case six), at which point the opening operation will already be two handed :)
Dec 16 10:59:43 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> What /will/ make a difference, though, is how easy it is to close again... being able to snap it shut with one hand would be a good thing :)
Dec 16 11:01:43 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_101194863:hacklab.fi> Not, mind you, that i do that with my cosmo... i've seen the failure modes on other people's devices, and hinge abuse seems to be... not uncommon ;)
Dec 16 14:24:16 <ArcusBot[m]> <@flux:matrix.org> I think it feels pretty safe closing Gemini with just one hand (not slamming it shut)
Dec 16 15:57:38 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_287856433:hacklab.fi> i am a fumbly fingered Device Abuser.
Dec 16 15:57:39 <ArcusBot[m]> which is why i didnt order an Astro Slide.
Dec 16 15:57:39 <ArcusBot[m]> i would have broken my Gemini and Cosmo screens 20 times if the screen was facing outwards.
Dec 16 16:17:53 <ArcusBot[m]> <@flux:matrix.org> it is a bit sad how the Gemini display is so well protected.. to be imprinted with the key edge pattern.
Dec 16 19:29:07 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> I installed the v3 debian .. went and imported my ssh keys and then tried to log on to my server but the @ sign doesn't work :) All the other FN keys work (I have a UK keyboard). Anyways, I just laughed and threw it back in the drawer .. what a piecve of junk :)
Dec 16 19:29:36 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> well, that's totally going to solve your issue... >_>
Dec 16 19:30:08 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> Yeh, you know what, I pissed away too many hours on this thing
Dec 16 19:30:15 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> It was cute during the lockdown
Dec 16 19:30:26 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> now I got sh*t to do, man :)
Dec 16 19:30:35 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> your attitude isn't making me hard to want to help you.
Dec 16 19:30:43 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> * your attitude is making me nmot to want to help you.
Dec 16 19:30:45 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_142134413:hacklab.fi> > <DrBytes> I installed the v3 debian .. went and imported my ssh keys and then tried to log on to my server but the @ sign doesn't work :) All the other FN keys work (I have a UK keyboard). Anyways, I just laughed and threw it back in the drawer .. what a piecve of junk :)
Dec 16 19:30:45 <ArcusBot[m]> lol you can easily edit the keymap in linux
Dec 16 19:30:46 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> * your attitude is making me nott to want to help you.
Dec 16 19:30:50 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> * your attitude is making me nottto want to help you.
Dec 16 19:30:55 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> * your attitude is making me not want to help you.
Dec 16 19:31:05 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_888165589:hacklab.fi> ^
Dec 16 19:31:11 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> I know that
Dec 16 19:31:19 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> It's just whatever
Dec 16 19:32:49 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> If I'm not mistaken it was set to uk on v2
Dec 16 19:33:19 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> default was/is us so far as I know
Dec 16 19:33:35 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> * default was/is 'us' so far as I know
Dec 16 19:33:37 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_250862569:hacklab.fi> Actually I don't know, I might've patched that in the image
Dec 16 19:34:47 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> on the gemini I added a drop down to the login screen to pick the keyboard, this didn't get kept with the move to plasma
Dec 16 19:35:46 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> @adamboardman what sort of battery life are you getting on Cosmo?
Dec 16 19:36:39 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> very bad, I took a break feb-nov, so I'm currently working through my 'nice to have' issues, that's probably something I need to look into
Dec 16 19:36:56 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> Ok
Dec 16 19:37:12 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> I am getting about 8 hours from a charge
Dec 16 19:39:21 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> yea the most I got was about 30 days on the gemini - wifi+cell+bt off, minimal use, closed to sleep, with cosmo its flat over night, so for now I just turn it off
Dec 16 19:39:57 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> Ok. Sorry I’ve other question.
Dec 16 19:40:16 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> Any plans to upgrade to bullseye?
Dec 16 19:41:15 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> is there a release date?
Dec 16 19:42:01 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> I need to look. I believe they have set a date to freeze the release. I will look.
Dec 16 19:43:26 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> • 2021-01-12: Transition and (build-)essentials Freeze (scheduled)
Dec 16 19:43:26 <ArcusBot[m]>  • 2021-02-12: Soft Freeze (scheduled)
Dec 16 19:43:26 <ArcusBot[m]>  • 2021-03-12: Hard Freeze - for key packages and packages without autopkgtests (scheduled)
Dec 16 19:44:21 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> probably a when someone gets around to it after the release date, and depending on issues with kernel requirements, I started buster work on gemini, but gave up when I found that random packages were using newer syscalls not in our kernel
Dec 16 19:44:52 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_1149248913:hacklab.fi> Ok thanks
Dec 16 19:46:37 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_507361575:hacklab.fi> * probably a when someone gets around to it after the release date, and depending on issues with kernel requirements, I was doing buster work on gemini, but gave up when I found that random packages were using newer syscalls not in our kernel
Dec 16 20:05:08 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_792211460:hacklab.fi> I was able to solve my issue but very-very ugly way. FreeBPX on Rock Pi with USB GSM modems and a VoIP client on my PC. So now I can use GPD micro pc's and have a cellular data with voice by VoIP...
Dec 16 20:06:56 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_792211460:hacklab.fi> yes, that is not perfect, but Cosmo made me mad. I really just wanted a linux phone and was excited with the possibility... but no - no magic in this world so far. I will follow Astro but if it will be the same in terms of linux support - I will not buy it. ((
Dec 16 20:09:05 <ArcusBot[m]> <@_telegram_792211460:hacklab.fi> sure with latest CoDi v15 UX got much better... but bluetooth and sim0 only... khm
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 17 02:59:57 2020