**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 08 03:00:02 2008
Nov 08 03:29:27 <BobOfDoom> flyback: you'll need a kernel that's been patched to divert USB client signals to USB host
Nov 08 03:29:56 <BobOfDoom> flyback: see: http://hhtinker.blogspot.com/2008/11/kernel-changes-for-usb-host.html
Nov 08 03:30:34 <BobOfDoom> flyback: you won't need to change your roofs (unless you need some tools to work with wahtever device you attach, like iwconfig or whatever)
Nov 08 03:32:23 <flyback> thx
Nov 08 03:32:36 <flyback> ugh
Nov 08 03:32:43 <flyback> looks like I won't be able to play with this for a while
Nov 08 03:34:55 <flyback> no where to build it
Nov 08 03:34:57 <flyback> oh well
Nov 08 03:39:28 <flyback> always a catch
Nov 08 03:39:31 <flyback> pretty much my entire life
Nov 08 12:43:13 <enthdegree> hallo?
Nov 08 12:47:24 <Sleep_Walker> echo!
Nov 08 13:11:02 <enthdegree> hello!
Nov 08 13:11:16 <enthdegree> =___=
Nov 08 13:12:15 <Sleep_Walker> echo!
Nov 08 13:13:58 <enthdegree> Which package do I download for my Palm T|X? the 324*484 package or the 320*480 one?
Nov 08 13:16:58 <Sleep_Walker> |miska|: ? ^
Nov 08 13:17:34 <Sleep_Walker> enthdegree: does your display support both?
Nov 08 13:17:45 <enthdegree> http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~miska/ is what I'm using. I'm just gonna download the 320*480 package to be safe.
Nov 08 13:18:02 <|miska|> Sleep_Walker: hi
Nov 08 13:18:24 <enthdegree> I didn't know that my screen was 324*484.
Nov 08 13:18:31 <|miska|> enthdegree: We didn't found anyone with display which doesn't support 324x484
Nov 08 13:18:52 <Sleep_Walker> |miska|: gm :)
Nov 08 13:18:58 <|miska|> You know that white border around your screen in PalmOS?
Nov 08 13:19:17 <enthdegree> Yes. It's incredibly annoying I removed it with an app I found.
Nov 08 13:19:19 <|miska|> In Linux, we can use it and it gives you that extra 4 pixels ;-)
Nov 08 13:19:52 <enthdegree> Cool. Thanks for the help!
Nov 08 13:20:09 <|miska|> np
Nov 08 13:20:36 <marex> |miska|, or you can use hardware color switch for that border and have it eg. red ;-B
Nov 08 13:20:37 <|miska|> Sleep_Walker: I'm awake quite some time, I even went out!
Nov 08 13:21:07 <|miska|> hardware?
Nov 08 13:21:27 <marex> |miska|, sure, recall those two gpios ?
Nov 08 13:22:13 <|miska|> To make it hardware you have to be really fast with your hardware switch, don't you?
Nov 08 13:22:56 <|miska|> I thought that interval need was something less then second, wasn't it?
Nov 08 13:23:26 <|miska|> To swith it with hardware swith in less than second...
Nov 08 13:23:32 <|miska|> Too complicated ;-)
Nov 08 13:23:38 <marex> yea, that's not really an issue though
Nov 08 13:25:01 <enthdegree> Is there any way to
Nov 08 13:25:35 <enthdegree> 'semi-permanently' install an operating system onto a device?
Nov 08 13:26:23 <enthdegree> Or even permanently install ?
Nov 08 13:29:12 <|miska|> semi-premanently - you can set cocoboot to boot linux without asking and use something in PalmOS to run cocoboot after each reset
Nov 08 13:30:20 <enthdegree> Oh ok.
Nov 08 13:30:58 <enthdegree> Backing up my pda right now.
Nov 08 13:31:44 <enthdegree> Oh yeah: Will angstrom have the same screen whine as Palm OS?
Nov 08 13:35:10 <marex> enthdegree, angstrom - no idea, pxafb - no
Nov 08 13:35:56 <Sleep_Walker> enthdegree: its just kernel dependant
Nov 08 13:39:05 <enthdegree> Ok thanks for everything. I appreciate you all taking the time to answer. Bye! (c:
Nov 08 13:39:43 <Sleep_Walker> good luck
Nov 08 17:46:00 <flyback> hey
Nov 08 17:46:15 <flyback> any quick and dirty ways to get a build host up to play with palm usb host mode code
Nov 08 17:46:40 <flyback> hey |miska| ltns :)
Nov 08 17:46:47 <flyback> thx for keeping up the t5 builds
Nov 08 17:47:53 * flyback ponders qemu 
Nov 08 18:02:30 <enthdegree> Hi again! I just got this running on my T|X with OPIE, and I think it's too cool for words. (:
Nov 08 18:03:35 <Sleep_Walker> congratulations
Nov 08 18:04:54 <enthdegree> Thanks. Can I get GPE working on it as well, or is that just for Familiar?
Nov 08 18:05:39 <flyback> what running?
Nov 08 18:05:42 <flyback> just linux or something else?
Nov 08 18:06:00 <enthdegree> I have Angstrom running on a Palm T|X
Nov 08 18:06:25 <flyback> ah I have had it runnong on my t5 for a while
Nov 08 18:06:32 <flyback> most of the time I sitll leave it in palm os but not much longer
Nov 08 18:06:37 <flyback> espically if this usb hack works
Nov 08 18:06:44 <enthdegree> Cool. What is the most stable enviroment?
Nov 08 18:06:54 <flyback> dunno
Nov 08 18:07:01 <flyback> oh you mean linux vs palm os
Nov 08 18:07:07 <flyback> dos > more stable than palm os
Nov 08 18:07:23 <flyback> win95 > more stable than palm os
Nov 08 18:07:29 <flyback> chicken shit > more stable than palm os
Nov 08 18:07:31 <enthdegree> lol
Nov 08 18:07:47 <|miska|> enthdegree: I've tried GPE recently, but it's really slow :-(
Nov 08 18:07:52 <flyback> they never updated the os for when they switched to a cpu (arm) with a mmu
Nov 08 18:07:56 <enthdegree> oh. )c:
Nov 08 18:07:58 <flyback> so no memory protection
Nov 08 18:08:11 <flyback> any app can piss all over any other app or the os kernel itself
Nov 08 18:08:18 <enthdegree> yik. Ok so I definitely don't wanna use that right now.
Nov 08 18:08:26 <flyback> i'd like to play with that enlightenment enviorment
Nov 08 18:08:30 <flyback> that is supposted to run well on 32
Nov 08 18:08:36 <flyback> which is what we both have
Nov 08 18:08:40 <flyback> for real ram
Nov 08 18:09:09 <flyback> I just solder repaired my usb sync cable so I can play with usb host
Nov 08 18:09:16 <flyback> but I have to compile a special kernel first
Nov 08 18:09:17 <enthdegree> Using just terminal would def. bump up the geek factor ++
Nov 08 18:09:35 <flyback> might use my laptop with qemu to install a arm linux distro so I can build
Nov 08 18:09:40 <flyback> turns out
Nov 08 18:09:56 <flyback> palm treo, the new treo replacement, tx, t5 and lifedrive
Nov 08 18:10:09 <flyback> the intel pxa27x cpu soc has a usb host mode not just client
Nov 08 18:10:22 <flyback> so basically you can plugin any usb device and use it as long as linux has a driver for it
Nov 08 18:10:44 <enthdegree> Wow.
Nov 08 18:11:11 <flyback> the only catch is for now it's a unofficial patch
Nov 08 18:11:21 <enthdegree> oh. :p
Nov 08 18:11:26 <flyback> and you need a POWERED usb hub because the palm can't suplly power
Nov 08 18:11:32 <flyback> but powered usb hubs are easy to get
Nov 08 18:11:42 <flyback> also need a little male-male usb coupler
Nov 08 18:12:02 <enthdegree> Orly? I didn't know that the PALM usbs didnt supply power. Even when not plugged in?
Nov 08 18:13:00 <flyback> no dude supply power to a usb device
Nov 08 18:13:03 <flyback> it can take power for charge
Nov 08 18:13:49 <enthdegree> Oops silly me. :p
Nov 08 18:13:57 <enthdegree> What is the most stable palm linux enviroment?
Nov 08 18:14:34 <flyback> I really don't know I have had some problesm with whatever the one miska builds is
Nov 08 18:14:39 <flyback> but I think it was cause I didn't have swap
Nov 08 18:14:44 <flyback> and it's possible I Have a slow sd cardf
Nov 08 18:14:44 <|miska|> Maybe pure terminal?
Nov 08 18:15:37 <enthdegree> I would use pure terminal, but if i have to type everything in with the weenie keyboard from opie, it doesn't seem to have very much practical use, unless there is some other way of imput...
Nov 08 18:15:53 <|miska|> enthdegree: But opie is quite good - it doesn't need so much RAM and it's faster then GPE
Nov 08 18:16:04 <flyback> what's the one in your rootfs miska
Nov 08 18:16:06 <flyback> I forget
Nov 08 18:16:28 <|miska|> enthdegree: You can connect external keynboard and use your palm without opie :-D
Nov 08 18:16:41 <flyback> not without the patch :P
Nov 08 18:16:58 <flyback> and he needs powered usb hub
Nov 08 18:17:03 <|miska|> Without any other patch :-P
Nov 08 18:17:12 <flyback> uh since when?
Nov 08 18:17:13 <enthdegree> Oh cool! there are drivers for the universal wireless keyboard?
Nov 08 18:17:15 <|miska|> He can use IR keyboard ;-)
Nov 08 18:17:25 <flyback> well yeah there is that
Nov 08 18:17:30 <flyback> hey
Nov 08 18:17:37 <flyback> would a serial keyboard have a linux driver
Nov 08 18:17:48 <|miska|> Yes, you just need uncoment settings in /etc/kbdd.conf
Nov 08 18:17:49 <flyback> I could convert a rs232 back to ttl serial and tap the serial pins on the t5
Nov 08 18:18:06 <enthdegree> Yeha. I don't think ill switch to GPE. Is there any way to keep OPIE from crashing?
Nov 08 18:18:11 <flyback> I have a keyboard for a palm IIIxe
Nov 08 18:18:36 <|miska|> I think there is only few apps which are crashing...
Nov 08 18:18:58 <flyback> I need a plucker replacement
Nov 08 18:19:04 <|miska|> Well, everything starts to crash once you don't have enough RAM
Nov 08 18:19:09 <flyback> also xmms has gotten better but still seems to really drag the sd card
Nov 08 18:19:55 <|miska|> But if use ext2 partition on your card and add some swap partition, it should be faster and more stable
Nov 08 18:19:58 <enthdegree> I have only spent around 10 minutes with it so i havent gotten into the 'nitty-gritty' with it, but it hangs (i think?) when I launch keyboard config
Nov 08 18:20:32 <|miska|> I think that's one of the apps that hangs :-D
Nov 08 18:20:51 <flyback> miska listen
Nov 08 18:20:54 <enthdegree> oh im using an un-custom partition'd card. If I put this all on an ext2 partition would that make it more stable? I downloaded the ext2 version.
Nov 08 18:20:58 <|miska|> I'll check it, but probably not during next week
Nov 08 18:21:00 <flyback> you have done a good job thx for maintaining the builds
Nov 08 18:21:03 <flyback> we appreciate it
Nov 08 18:21:40 <|miska|> enthdegree: It wouldn't help you with keyboard config, but it may be faster
Nov 08 18:21:55 <enthdegree> Yes thank you.
Nov 08 18:22:18 <enthdegree> Oh ok. I'll do it.
Nov 08 18:22:25 <enthdegree> Thanks!
Nov 08 18:22:33 <|miska|> np
Nov 08 18:23:21 <|miska|> Using files is sometimes good, cause it's easy to reinstall and you can have several different enviroments...
Nov 08 18:24:09 <flyback> so you are saying
Nov 08 18:24:13 <flyback> format a sd card ext2?
Nov 08 18:24:43 <flyback> I assume you have to put the bootloader and kernel on fat for palm os to load
Nov 08 18:25:13 <flyback> mabye I should make swap partition as well
Nov 08 18:31:20 <|miska|> You can repartition you card, let the first partiotion be FAT so PalmOS wouldn't have any problems and then you can add ext2 partition and swap. It's faster if you are accessing card directly instead of through the loop
Nov 08 18:34:52 <flyback> ok thx :)
Nov 08 18:35:00 <flyback> I wish I could use > 2 gig :/
Nov 08 18:35:22 <flyback> or the onboard 256/160meg disk on chip, mabye eventually
Nov 08 18:38:19 * flyback bbl
Nov 08 19:06:46 <flyback> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rN4yDNj5ME&feature=related# <---- YES THERE IS A GOD!
Nov 08 20:42:24 <flyback> anyone have a guide
Nov 08 20:42:32 <flyback> to what brands and model sd cards are the fastest
Nov 08 20:42:49 <flyback> and what the fastest sd speed is that palm t5/tx/lifedrive/tro/centro support?
Nov 09 02:15:07 <Sleep_Walker> BobOfDoom: I added pwm_bl modification, but I'm quite confused by all that branches :b
Nov 09 02:15:50 <flyback> hey Sleep_Walker
Nov 09 02:15:56 <flyback> what do you use for build env
Nov 09 02:15:57 <Sleep_Walker> hi
Nov 09 02:16:05 <Sleep_Walker> ?
Nov 09 02:16:08 <Sleep_Walker> OE?
Nov 09 02:16:09 <flyback> i'm thinking of using qemu and a arm linux distro
Nov 09 02:16:13 <flyback> yeah to build it
Nov 09 02:16:16 <flyback> like the kernel etc
Nov 09 02:17:17 <Sleep_Walker> toolchain built with OE
Nov 09 02:17:29 <flyback> ?
Nov 09 02:17:34 * flyback confused
Nov 09 02:17:37 <flyback> I have pc's here
Nov 09 02:17:50 <flyback> what do I use os, tools etc to build all the shit for a palm
Nov 09 02:18:29 <Sleep_Walker> I use /OE/tmp/cross/armv5te/bin/arm-angstrom-linux-gnueabi-*
Nov 09 02:19:42 <Sleep_Walker> BobOfDoom: please test my last commit, I'm going to push it higher :b
Nov 09 02:20:00 <Sleep_Walker> (all please test it :b )
Nov 09 02:26:12 <marex> Sleep_Walker, just by looking at it it doesnt seem correct to me
Nov 09 02:26:27 <Sleep_Walker> marex: it's too simple to be wrong :)
Nov 09 02:26:57 <Sleep_Walker> but I'd love to hear that anyone tried it with different device
Nov 09 02:28:02 <Sleep_Walker> marex: where is the problem?
Nov 09 02:29:10 <Sleep_Walker> you belongs to 'operator? haters'? :b
Nov 09 02:30:47 <marex> nah, I like that one as well as comma, but (pb->inverted ? (1/period) : period) might be more correct in this case
Nov 09 02:31:18 <Sleep_Walker> :O
Nov 09 02:31:19 <marex> maybe not ... dunno
Nov 09 02:31:21 <marex> Im too sleepy
Nov 09 02:31:42 <marex> run it through lakml and see the outcome, gnight
Nov 09 02:32:06 <Sleep_Walker> there was 0 before
Nov 09 02:32:16 <Sleep_Walker> so you're probably too sleepy :)
Nov 09 02:33:08 <Sleep_Walker> but if you meant the second line - I'd like to let it have linear
Nov 09 02:33:10 <Sleep_Walker> gn
Nov 09 02:36:08 <marex> Sleep_Walker, check the logic in arch-arm/pwm.c:pwm_config
Nov 09 02:36:19 <marex> you might be able to see something there as well
Nov 09 02:37:00 <Sleep_Walker> I know pwm and pwm_bl quite well know
Nov 09 02:37:07 <Sleep_Walker> including PWM doc
Nov 09 02:37:38 <Sleep_Walker> I spent day and half for this 4 line patch :)
Nov 09 02:37:55 <Sleep_Walker> because I was looking for problem of that values
Nov 09 02:38:03 <Sleep_Walker> and there was not :b
Nov 09 02:38:46 <marex> ok ... I spend today practicing for calculus test
Nov 09 02:39:09 <Sleep_Walker> :D
Nov 09 02:39:14 <Sleep_Walker> sounds like fun :b
Nov 09 02:39:40 <marex> well it is
Nov 09 02:40:12 <marex> you dont seriously think I'd do something that isnt fun, do you ...
Nov 09 02:40:48 <Sleep_Walker> let me think...
Nov 09 02:40:50 <Sleep_Walker> ...
Nov 09 02:40:54 <Sleep_Walker> C#? :D
Nov 09 02:40:58 <Sleep_Walker> ...
Nov 09 02:41:01 <Sleep_Walker> Java?
Nov 09 02:41:10 <Sleep_Walker> ...
Nov 09 02:41:10 <marex> dunno anything from it yet
Nov 09 02:41:24 <Sleep_Walker> Zaklady pocitacu? :D
Nov 09 02:41:26 <marex> as for c-hash ... that's already buried
Nov 09 02:41:34 <marex> huh ?
Nov 09 02:41:46 <Sleep_Walker> or it was Principy pocitacu?
Nov 09 02:41:59 <marex> yea ... that was quite nice
Nov 09 02:42:01 <Sleep_Walker> some quite stupid lesson
Nov 09 02:42:10 <Sleep_Walker> ah, I see
Nov 09 02:42:23 <Sleep_Walker> you have fun with everything
Nov 09 02:42:36 * flyback still doesn't understand what he needs to do to compile code
Nov 09 02:42:49 <flyback> no way I can get you to compile me a t5 kernel with the usb host patch by chance?
Nov 09 02:42:49 <marex> who said I listened to that lesson anyway ...
Nov 09 02:43:35 <Sleep_Walker> flyback: there is some chance ;D
Nov 09 02:43:50 * flyback begs
Nov 09 02:43:55 <Sleep_Walker> T5 kernel, USB host AND MY SHINY NEW PWM patch :D
Nov 09 02:44:44 <marex> Sleep_Walker, you changed the api ... have you updated all the platforms that will be affected by your change ?
Nov 09 02:45:06 <Sleep_Walker> marex: nope
Nov 09 02:45:20 <marex> you know what will happen, right ?
Nov 09 02:45:23 * flyback puts the usb powered hub on "preheat"
Nov 09 02:45:33 <Sleep_Walker> but it seems very interesting that non-defined structure member is always set 0 :)
Nov 09 02:45:49 <marex> Sleep_Walker, are you really sure ?
Nov 09 02:45:49 <Sleep_Walker> which will cause that it magically works
Nov 09 02:45:54 <Sleep_Walker> nope :D
Nov 09 02:46:05 <Sleep_Walker> that is the reason to review and test it
Nov 09 02:46:24 <marex> you are not guarantied that the memory area you will get will be zeroed out
Nov 09 02:46:27 <Sleep_Walker> marex: but it has to work this way
Nov 09 02:46:45 <marex> no it wont work ... if you have some random value there, then what ?
Nov 09 02:46:54 <flyback> marex is right
Nov 09 02:46:57 <flyback> even I understand this
Nov 09 02:47:03 <flyback> it's a lesson m$ learned the hard way
Nov 09 02:47:04 <flyback> and still is
Nov 09 02:47:06 <marex> flyback, shut up, noone asked you
Nov 09 02:47:09 <Sleep_Walker> you're not defining all function pointers, right?
Nov 09 02:47:23 <Sleep_Walker> (into structure)
Nov 09 02:47:36 <flyback> <marex> flyback, shut up, noone asked you <-- wow marex has been a virgin longer than I have
Nov 09 02:48:01 <Sleep_Walker> it would be really interesting jump with random (non-NULL) value
Nov 09 02:48:31 <marex> Sleep_Walker, well when you allocate that structure, you should memset it ... check if it really is, if not, patch it
Nov 09 02:49:57 <Sleep_Walker> 	pb = kzalloc(sizeof(*pb), GFP_KERNEL);
Nov 09 02:50:04 <Sleep_Walker> this line is relevant
Nov 09 02:50:04 <marex> ok, pb is kzalloced and initialized ... right
Nov 09 02:50:13 <marex> so ?
Nov 09 02:50:14 <Sleep_Walker> fine
Nov 09 02:50:24 <marex> kzalloc does zero it out ?
Nov 09 02:51:06 <Sleep_Walker> include/linux/slab.h: * kzalloc - allocate memory. The memory is set to zero.
Nov 09 02:51:29 <Sleep_Walker> good old kzalloc
Nov 09 02:51:33 <Sleep_Walker> flyback: :b
Nov 09 02:51:47 <marex> Sleep_Walker, ok, you won
Nov 09 02:51:53 <Sleep_Walker> YES!
Nov 09 02:52:01 <Sleep_Walker> gn :)
Nov 09 02:52:14 <flyback> you going to bed?
Nov 09 02:52:23 <Sleep_Walker> I'm already in bed
Nov 09 02:52:27 <flyback> oh
Nov 09 02:52:29 <Sleep_Walker> I'm going to sleep
Nov 09 02:52:32 <flyback> ok
Nov 09 02:52:39 <Sleep_Walker> but this was toward Marex :)
Nov 09 02:58:23 <Sleep_Walker> flyback: do you have some t5 kernel config?
Nov 09 02:58:42 <flyback> use the one on miska's page han gon lemme get url
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 09 02:59:57 2008