**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 18 02:59:57 2009
Jan 18 04:24:36 <donspaulding> I've got a Treo 650 and a 755 and I want to play around with Android on it, what's the best HnD branch to merge with the google sources?
Jan 18 04:43:13 <tmzt> donspaulding: it would probably be simpler just to integrate the ashmem,binderipc and framebuffer patches into a complete kernel for your device
Jan 18 04:54:03 <donspaulding> oh, is that all ;-)
Jan 18 04:54:04 <donspaulding> ?
Jan 18 04:54:31 <tmzt> yeah, what framebuffer does t650 use, pxafb right?
Jan 18 04:55:18 <donspaulding> tmzt: I don't have the first clue.  Maybe that's a better question to ask.  Where can I get info on my hardware?
Jan 18 04:55:57 <tmzt> kernel source is usually a good place
Jan 18 05:00:17 <donspaulding> tmzt: are you saying start with a stock kernel.org kernel?  or start with an HnD kernel and integrate Android's ashmem binderipc and framebuffer drivers?
Jan 18 05:01:23 <tmzt> I'm saying start with HnD kernel assuming it's the right one for your device
Jan 18 05:01:56 <tmzt> android doesn't have a patched pxafb so you need to find that somewhere (search for android pxafb)
Jan 18 05:02:25 <donspaulding> tmzt: do you think it would be better to focus on the 650 or 755 first?
Jan 18 05:02:54 <donspaulding> the 755 matches the G1's hardware quite a bit more than the 650, AFAIK
Jan 18 05:03:03 <tmzt> why do you say that?
Jan 18 05:03:27 <donspaulding> I thought they were both PXA270's
Jan 18 05:03:40 <tmzt> g1 is qualcomm msm7201a
Jan 18 05:03:58 <donspaulding> hrm, why was I thinking that?
Jan 18 05:04:52 <donspaulding> wow, ok, I was way off
Jan 18 05:05:34 <donspaulding> so, the msm is armv6 and the pxa270 is 5te,
Jan 18 05:05:56 <tmzt> yeah, there are android userspace builds for armv5 though
Jan 18 05:07:35 <donspaulding> what does "userspace" mean when talking about kernel builds?
Jan 18 05:07:40 <donspaulding> oh, wait
Jan 18 05:07:56 <donspaulding> you mean android's apps are built for that arch, right?
Jan 18 05:08:22 <donspaulding> so provided I can fumble my way to a working kernel, android should already run on it?
Jan 18 05:08:48 <tmzt> yes
Jan 18 05:09:07 <tmzt> android's apps are a java-like virtual machine called dex
Jan 18 05:09:21 <tmzt> userspace is everything that is not kernel
Jan 18 05:09:23 <donspaulding> dex == dalvik executable?
Jan 18 05:09:27 <tmzt> yes
Jan 18 05:09:37 <tmzt> I meant dalvik
Jan 18 05:10:07 <donspaulding> tmzt: that's the definition of userspace I'm familiar with, I just don't think of android as being independent of the kernel.
Jan 18 05:10:15 <donspaulding> or rather, I do now.
Jan 18 05:10:30 <tmzt> it is, the parts of the kernel specific to android are the ones I listed
Jan 18 05:10:56 <donspaulding> tmzt: so android needs those in addition to a stock kernel to run?
Jan 18 05:11:20 <tmzt> android needs those patches to start/run, yes
Jan 18 05:12:38 <tmzt> I mentioned userspace because you said g1 is arm6 pxa is arm5, this would matter if you were going to run a downloadable build that was not for arm5
Jan 18 05:14:06 <donspaulding> ah, so I can use any userspace build for arm5, or cross-compile that myself?
Jan 18 05:14:34 <tmzt> yes, build the kernel with eabi and that should work
Jan 18 05:14:46 <tmzt> there are also builds for htc apache that should work
Jan 18 05:16:54 <donspaulding> what's eabi?  abi is App Binary Interface?  e for armv5t-e-?
Jan 18 05:17:28 <tmzt> the abi for arm device on linux, as opposed to the old abi (oabi) also called AEABI
Jan 18 05:17:46 <tmzt> the new abi ...
Jan 18 05:20:52 <donspaulding> ok, off I go to compile a kernel :-D
Jan 18 13:26:53 <msd> Hey folks, I am gonna power a T3 directly trough 12V DC (now trough PSU later by CAR ouput)
Jan 18 13:27:15 <msd> I want to electrics store who calculated 12-3,7v @900mah
Jan 18 13:27:21 <msd> 10 ohm resistor
Jan 18 13:27:33 <msd> But I wonder if i passed on this 900 milliampiere correctly
Jan 18 13:27:39 <msd> cause thats the capacity of the battery
Jan 18 13:27:44 <msd> and not the use of the T3
Jan 18 13:27:55 <msd> any one has an idea what kind of resistor I need?
Jan 18 14:10:23 <malcom2073> msd: what voltage does the T3 take as a supply? If it is 12 volts, then you should get a regulator before you try to hook it up to your car's output, because automobile power is notoriously dirty, and almost never 12 volts exactly.
Jan 18 15:02:17 <msd> yeah i know about the car thing ill get a regulator. But for now its just on a PC PSU
Jan 18 15:02:25 <msd> which ill use the 12V for
Jan 18 15:02:34 <msd> it should go from 12V to 3,7V
Jan 18 15:03:01 <msd> i suppose i need to know how much Milli Amp. a T3 uses
Jan 18 15:03:07 <msd> to get the right resistor
Jan 18 15:03:16 <malcom2073> Wait a second, you're trying to go from 12volts to 3.7 volts?
Jan 18 15:04:27 <msd> of course since a T3 uses 3,7v
Jan 18 15:04:42 <malcom2073> Gotcha, I didn't know that. You could use a voltage divider, which is horribly inefficient, you should really get a regulator.
Jan 18 15:05:09 <msd> a resistor is not enough?
Jan 18 15:05:16 <msd> i dont know jack about electrics :D
Jan 18 15:05:32 <msd> I thought i would put in a 10 ohm resistor :S
Jan 18 15:05:34 <malcom2073> a voltage divider is two resistors, hooked between power and ground, and it gives you your target voltage by essentially "bleeding" off the excess
Jan 18 15:06:02 <malcom2073> Therfore, you are wasting alot of power, and you probably need to get high power resistors (like 5-10w)
Jan 18 15:06:16 <msd> yeah 5-10 watts
Jan 18 15:06:24 <msd> 10 ohm would do?
Jan 18 15:06:27 <malcom2073> No
Jan 18 15:06:30 <malcom2073> wait one
Jan 18 15:06:51 <msd> i just want to use a single simple resistor if possible :D
Jan 18 15:07:11 <malcom2073> you won't be able to
Jan 18 15:07:22 <malcom2073> If you do, you'll likely kill your T3
Jan 18 15:07:45 <msd> could you explain me why?
Jan 18 15:07:49 <msd> in my opinion
Jan 18 15:07:59 <msd> i need to bleed off excess voltage
Jan 18 15:08:21 <msd> form 12 to 3,7 = 8.3 V
Jan 18 15:08:35 <malcom2073> Because a 10 ohm resistor would give you a certain voltage for a certain load. If your load changes (say your palm takes a little more, or a little less power, which it WILL), then the voltage changes
Jan 18 15:08:58 <malcom2073> So if say, your T3 starts taking less power, your voltage will go from 3.7 up to 5 or 10
Jan 18 15:09:00 <malcom2073> Which is bad
Jan 18 15:10:11 <msd> hmm
Jan 18 15:10:29 <msd> is it important how much ampiere (milli) it uses?
Jan 18 15:10:41 <malcom2073> Of course
Jan 18 15:10:54 <msd> the battery is 900 milli but is not relevant here right?
Jan 18 15:11:07 <malcom2073> wait, you're trying to power this off a small battery?
Jan 18 15:11:10 <malcom2073> thought you said a PSU
Jan 18 15:11:25 <malcom2073> Seriously, get a regulator. Any other way, you risk destroying your T3
Jan 18 15:11:33 <msd> exactly i just got the numbers 3.7 volt and 900 milli ampiere OFF the old original battery
Jan 18 15:11:55 <malcom2073> Oh, you're trying to replace the battery with a power supply. I thought you were trying to power it through the power port
Jan 18 15:12:12 <msd> nah i am replacing the battery by a PSU
Jan 18 15:12:27 <msd> directly on the two wired who originally went to the battery
Jan 18 15:12:40 <malcom2073> My suggestion: Power it through the power supply, don't try to mess with the battery. I can't help you, as I don't know enough about T3's, and I don't want to risk you blowing up your T3 and blaming me :)
Jan 18 15:13:02 <msd> yeah i go with directly from PSU
Jan 18 15:13:15 <msd> i just want to know what kind of resistors i need/ and or regulators
Jan 18 15:13:43 <malcom2073> I do not know. You need to find out how the battery power is wired to the T3 internally, I have no idea what kind of regulators and stuff it goes through inside.
Jan 18 15:14:01 <msd> and how could i know how much ampiere a T3 uses? cause the 900 maH written on the battery is just the capacity right?
Jan 18 15:14:05 <malcom2073> Why not just power it thorough the power adapter?
Jan 18 15:14:07 <malcom2073> right
Jan 18 15:14:22 <malcom2073> dunno about the T3, but my E2 has a plug in the bottom of the unit which accepts power
Jan 18 15:14:33 <msd> cause i make a test environment on a PSU than ill move it on to my car
Jan 18 15:14:41 <msd> my t3 will be a fixed GPS unit :D
Jan 18 15:14:50 <malcom2073> So why not power it normally like you would if you were charging it?
Jan 18 15:15:10 <msd> i would need to buy another adapter for car use
Jan 18 15:15:13 <msd> besides
Jan 18 15:15:23 <msd> that will add bulk to one side of the designs
Jan 18 15:15:25 <msd> design
Jan 18 15:15:35 <msd> while wiring it gives me a lot of design freedom
Jan 18 15:15:35 <malcom2073> Well, you could spend a little money for another adapter, or you could risk blowing up your T3 by messing with the battery. your choice :P
Jan 18 15:16:03 <malcom2073> I can't help ya though sorry
Jan 18 15:16:48 <msd> besides buying another adapter isnt a guarnatee i could directly wire it to the maiboard, and so bypassing its universal PALM connector on the bottom right
Jan 18 15:17:03 <msd> so maybe my way isnt too bad after all
Jan 18 15:17:13 <msd> just need some info on resistors and so on :D
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jan 19 02:59:57 2009