**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Apr 18 09:02:14 2009
Apr 18 10:19:32 <natwrkz> had some issues with the script
Apr 18 10:25:20 <Sleep_Walker> natwrkz: that is usual - it's not stable, it's more how-to than script in this moment
Apr 18 10:25:29 <Sleep_Walker> but all should be easily fixable
Apr 18 10:25:45 <natwrkz> okay
Apr 18 10:28:47 <tmzt> you found the gpio sequence then?
Apr 18 10:31:34 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: it was for me?
Apr 18 10:31:39 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: not yet
Apr 18 10:32:06 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: I had to prepare other machines for Linux Expo, now my wife will not let me to work much on this
Apr 18 10:32:24 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: hopefully I can work on that at work a bit :)
Apr 18 10:32:53 <tmzt> oh, just wondered what the script was for
Apr 18 10:33:02 <tmzt> and the gpio sysfs entries
Apr 18 10:35:16 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: installation script for users :)
Apr 18 10:35:29 <Sleep_Walker> GPIO sysfs are for bluetooth
Apr 18 10:35:42 <Sleep_Walker> mainline doesn't like hooks in serial code
Apr 18 10:35:54 <tmzt> yeah
Apr 18 12:44:46 <macdice> does anyone know where i can find the initrd.gz that goes with the zImage at http://releases.hackndev.com/palmt650-20081005/ ?
Apr 18 12:51:21 <tmzt> what are you trying to do?
Apr 18 12:51:57 <macdice> i followed the instructions on http://hackndev.com/node/212#comment-781
Apr 18 12:52:10 <macdice> http://hackndev.com/node/212 rather
Apr 18 12:52:51 <macdice> it doesn't work because (as far as i can see) this zImage needs an initrd.gz too
Apr 18 12:55:00 <macdice> so cocoboot says '/initrd.gz not found! (-3)'
Apr 18 12:55:15 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: if initrd.gz is not needed, you can ignore it
Apr 18 12:55:27 <marex> someone should patch that
Apr 18 12:55:29 <Sleep_Walker> if you use partition and have pxamci driver in, you don't needed
Apr 18 12:55:39 <Sleep_Walker> marex: volunteer? :)
Apr 18 12:55:46 <marex> macdice, if you can still hit the "boot" button, everything is fine
Apr 18 12:55:54 <macdice> ahh, i see, so it's a harmless warning.  great, and indeed it does actually boot fine.  duh!
Apr 18 12:55:59 <macdice> thanks
Apr 18 12:56:01 <marex> macdice, the boot button would be disabled in case of some harder error
Apr 18 12:56:31 <marex> rm -rf OpenEmbedded
Apr 18 12:56:47 <macdice> wicked, now i'm logged into debian on my phone, unbelievable
Apr 18 12:57:02 <marex> macdice, congratulations ;-)
Apr 18 12:57:03 <Sleep_Walker> marex: permission denied
Apr 18 12:57:11 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: great
Apr 18 12:57:19 <marex> Sleep_Walker, nah ... I have another installation
Apr 18 12:57:26 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: I'll prepare some newer kernel soon, willing to test?
Apr 18 12:57:37 <marex> Im just getting rid of this one so I can continue hacking on the kernel
Apr 18 12:57:54 <marex> I have serious doubts I can make another git clone with 1.1Gb free
Apr 18 12:58:12 <macdice> sure
Apr 18 12:58:17 <marex> looks like Palm/ got pretty big recently
Apr 18 12:58:31 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: fine, it can be ready in week or so
Apr 18 12:59:30 <macdice> so, i'm totally new to linux/palm hacking.  my iphone broke down and i decided to dig out an old treo and see what it could do.  last time i looked, there was no hope of getting phone apps working.  but it looks like there has been some progress
Apr 18 13:00:39 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: phone app is not working, but it's userspace problem
Apr 18 13:00:44 <Sleep_Walker> you can call using minicom
Apr 18 13:01:06 <Sleep_Walker> even more - emfox has some first success with muxing GPRS and voice (on Treo680)
Apr 18 13:01:34 <macdice> so all problems of chipsets and such have been sorted out?  if it's purely application problems this is something i would like to have a go at
Apr 18 13:02:28 <macdice> ok so you can send AT commands to dial, answer etc and the microphone and speaker work ok?
Apr 18 13:02:36 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: on Treo650 yes, on Treo680 there some minor issues, Centro unknown atm
Apr 18 13:02:53 <Sleep_Walker> I need to create status page :/
Apr 18 13:03:06 <macdice> are the AT commands standard across phones etc or are the commands specific to the treo chipset?
Apr 18 13:03:10 <Sleep_Walker> volunteers wanted again :b
Apr 18 13:03:29 <Sleep_Walker> well, it's BCM2132 and BCM2133 inside
Apr 18 13:03:49 <Sleep_Walker> most of command set is same, but there are some differences
Apr 18 13:04:39 <macdice> ok so when you say 'userspace problems', does this mean that apps like the openmoko dailer (what else is there BTW?) need to be patched to handle the BCM2132/BCM2133 command set?
Apr 18 13:04:58 <marex> gsmd needs to be patches
Apr 18 13:05:04 <marex> s/s$/d/
Apr 18 13:05:43 <tmzt> macdice: what distribution are you using?
Apr 18 13:05:58 <Sleep_Walker> emfox is working on patching gsmd
Apr 18 13:06:24 <macdice> i just untarred the debian rootfs provided by 'alex' on http://hackndev.com/node/212
Apr 18 13:07:37 <tmzt> ok
Apr 18 13:07:54 <macdice> i will have to look around a bit and see what distros there are but i run debian on all my home/work machines so it's most likely what i'll stick with
Apr 18 13:14:04 <tmzt> do you have the fso sources enabled?
Apr 18 13:14:38 <tmzt> or hold on
Apr 18 13:15:48 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: I can recommend you newly created wiki page http://hackndev.com/trac/wiki/DebianOnTreo680
Apr 18 13:16:40 <macdice> thanks!
Apr 18 13:16:52 <macdice> i'm on a 650 but there doesn't seem to be terribly much difference (?)
Apr 18 13:17:01 <Sleep_Walker> userspace differences between treos are minimal
Apr 18 13:17:17 <Sleep_Walker> maybe your keymap won't work same, but it's minor issue
Apr 18 13:17:39 <Sleep_Walker> I'll rename it to DebianOnTreoAndCentro soon :b
Apr 18 13:17:49 <macdice> yeah the console doesn't let me type any punctuation right now
Apr 18 13:17:51 * Sleep_Walker needs some good todo list
Apr 18 13:18:07 <macdice> i guess PalmOS ToDo is out of the question
Apr 18 13:18:08 <tmzt> http://projects.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/smartphones-userland/2009-April/001427.html
Apr 18 13:18:24 <Sleep_Walker> macdice: there is keymap for Treo680, you can update it for Treo650 and I'll add it
Apr 18 13:18:36 <tmzt> 650 gsm is also the bcm chip?
Apr 18 13:18:59 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: yes, BCM2132
Apr 18 13:19:17 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: Treo680 BCM2133 (and Centro same we think)
Apr 18 13:19:28 <tmzt> the apt repo in that mail should be about current
Apr 18 13:19:32 <tmzt> probably
Apr 18 13:20:02 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: e680 contains BCM21xx BP ?
Apr 18 13:20:34 <Sleep_Walker> link - not found
Apr 18 13:20:50 <macdice> so googling around for information about gsmd, it seems like it has no maintainer (?)
Apr 18 13:21:07 <macdice> and/or there maybe be multiple forks
Apr 18 13:21:25 <Sleep_Walker> heh
Apr 18 13:22:03 <tmzt> Sleep_Walker: no
Apr 18 13:22:27 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: sorry - I misread that
Apr 18 13:22:41 <tmzt> I mean the fso packages
Apr 18 13:22:41 <Sleep_Walker> fso-abyss was the important thing
Apr 18 13:22:49 <tmzt> yes for mux
Apr 18 13:23:40 <tmzt> the interesting thing about that mail is I don't think e680 was intentionally supported
Apr 18 13:23:54 <tmzt> by fso-abyss but it apparently worked
Apr 18 13:24:32 <Sleep_Walker> I'll tell emfox
Apr 18 13:24:39 <Sleep_Walker> he's GSM userspace guy :)
Apr 18 13:25:24 <tmzt> it might also be in pkg-fso now so you probably want to follow the Debian on Freerunner manual instructions
Apr 18 13:25:39 <tmzt> to add that source
Apr 18 13:25:50 <tmzt> macdice?
Apr 18 13:26:08 <macdice> yeah - sorry was just off reading about fso-abyss trying to figure out what it actually is :-)
Apr 18 13:26:19 <macdice> http://git.freesmartphone.org/?p=fso-abyss.git;a=summary
Apr 18 13:26:55 <tmzt> a replacement for gsm0710mud I think
Apr 18 13:28:46 <macdice> so does this mean that phone apps + GPRS data are not far away then?
Apr 18 13:28:55 <tmzt> proably
Apr 18 13:29:00 <tmzt> Sleep_Walker: does ppp work?
Apr 18 13:29:07 <Sleep_Walker> any russians here?
Apr 18 13:29:16 <Sleep_Walker> tmzt: I didn't tried, emfox report success
Apr 18 13:30:03 <Sleep_Walker> 18:00 GMT+1 Czech republic vs. Russia - hockey match :)
Apr 18 15:03:39 <marex> natwrkz, hi, network fell last night
Apr 18 15:06:48 <natwrkz> We were looking forward to talking to you. Thank you for all the work you done with the  project. We're glad to join the team.
Apr 18 15:15:55 <marex> natwrkz, so ... what do you want from me ?
Apr 18 15:16:25 <marex> most of the TX patches hit the mainline (wireless-2.6 and pxa-linux-2.6 (for link, see RTFM.txt in the topic))
Apr 18 17:17:52 <flyback> http://www.surpluscomputers.com/348632/house-brand-widescreen-photoshare-7xl.html <-- wow
Apr 18 17:53:15 <beefxer> what's the url to the RTFM.txt? I don't see it in the topic
Apr 18 18:07:27 <marex> Belldandy, topic
Apr 18 18:07:44 <marex> Hack&Dev http://hackndev.com | Speak _english_ | We hack ONLY handhelds | Bugtracker: http://bugs.hackndev.com | old H&D drupal is restored at http://old.hackndev.com | Please submit patches against arm:devel | Useful links: http://marex.hackndev.com/RTFM.txt | Problems with BFU installer? ping Sleep_Walker
Apr 18 18:07:49 <marex> beefxer, ^
Apr 18 18:07:55 <beefxer> thank you marex
Apr 18 18:09:12 <flyback> marex
Apr 18 18:09:25 <flyback> think linux will be able to suspend to disk on chip eventually
Apr 18 18:09:33 <flyback> or can do it suspend to sd/mmc just fine now?
Apr 18 18:09:48 <marex> flyback, you can suspend to ram
Apr 18 18:09:51 <marex> on T5
Apr 18 18:09:54 <flyback> yeah but that's worthless
Apr 18 18:09:57 <flyback> if the battery runs too low
Apr 18 18:10:04 <marex> that's what palmos does
Apr 18 18:10:10 <flyback> no it has nvfs
Apr 18 18:10:20 <marex> so what? it still does suspend to ram
Apr 18 18:10:35 <flyback> yeah but it's auto saved to flash
Apr 18 18:10:38 <beefxer> yeah my palm tx bricked on me when I let it run out of battery while suspended - someone showed me how to short the board with the battery terminals
Apr 18 18:10:42 <flyback> so if you removed the battery even
Apr 18 18:10:44 <flyback> no difference
Apr 18 18:10:46 <flyback> afaik
Apr 18 18:11:21 <marex> flyback, it might be saved, but so what ?
Apr 18 18:11:27 <marex> linux can suspend-to-sdcard as well
Apr 18 18:11:30 <flyback> there's no chance of bit loss
Apr 18 18:11:40 <flyback> my memory is going bad
Apr 18 18:11:45 <flyback> I rather know my os is safe
Apr 18 18:11:51 <flyback> if I forget to charge or remove the sd card etc
Apr 18 18:11:59 <flyback> my memory as in me
Apr 18 18:12:03 <flyback> my brain is deteriating :/
Apr 18 18:12:20 <flyback> hey are z22's any good?
Apr 18 18:13:37 <marex> dunno
Apr 18 18:14:03 <flyback> might get one for my dad
Apr 18 18:14:07 <flyback> even palm os would be fine for him
Apr 18 18:14:19 <marex> it has some samsung arm, linux might run on it
Apr 18 18:17:30 <flyback> ah no bt or audio
Apr 18 18:17:42 <marex> huh ?
Apr 18 18:18:15 <flyback> just looking at the specs
Apr 18 18:23:57 <marex> flyback, it has no audio? that sucks
Apr 18 18:24:08 <marex> iirc it might not have even an SD card, but Im not sure
Apr 18 18:24:23 <flyback> correct
Apr 18 18:24:33 <flyback> this is why palm went under till someone bought them up
Apr 18 18:24:38 <flyback> they got too greddy and stupid
Apr 18 18:32:38 <beefxer> do the newer palm devices have faster processors than the TX?
Apr 18 18:34:07 <Sleep_Walker> I don't know about pre, but others has same speed
Apr 18 18:34:09 <marex> beefxer, nah, palm ended at pxa270
Apr 18 18:34:23 <marex> they have 312 or 416 MHz models
Apr 18 18:37:26 <beefxer> 416mhz is a fair improvement
Apr 18 18:37:41 <marex> TX has 312
Apr 18 18:37:44 <beefxer> I like the TX though
Apr 18 18:37:49 <marex> it doesnt change anything much
Apr 18 18:38:05 <marex> the CPU is the lease bottleneck there
Apr 18 18:38:09 <marex> *least
Apr 18 18:38:49 <beefxer> I'm guessing the sd card is the biggest bottleneck
Apr 18 18:38:58 <marex> that too ...
Apr 18 18:39:07 <marex> the memory speed doesnt help much too
Apr 18 18:39:14 <beefxer> internal memory?
Apr 18 18:39:18 <marex> RAM
Apr 18 18:39:21 <beefxer> gotcha
Apr 18 18:39:26 <marex> it has too slow clocking
Apr 18 18:39:38 <beefxer> are you guys working on a way to overwrite the ROM?
Apr 18 18:39:40 <marex> (you can see big speed difference in case of PalmZ72, which has faster RAM)
Apr 18 18:39:50 <beefxer> oh I see
Apr 18 18:40:06 <marex> beefxer, well natwrkz told me he'll send some devices so we can work on it
Apr 18 18:40:13 <beefxer> oh awesome
Apr 18 18:40:16 <marex> (or I can ... )
Apr 18 18:40:30 <marex> Sleep_Walker does the distribution kernel and miska does userspace
Apr 18 18:40:51 <beefxer> oh I see, just you three developing this os?
Apr 18 18:41:05 <marex> there were many more, but I guess only us are active now
Apr 18 18:41:40 <beefxer> well I'm glad you guys are still working on it, it has great potential
Apr 18 18:41:58 <beefxer> I'm really impressed with what you have created so far
Apr 18 18:42:34 <beefxer> the first time it booted I was in disbelief
Apr 18 18:42:54 <marex> when was it ?
Apr 18 18:43:00 <beefxer> a couple of days ago
Apr 18 18:43:16 <marex> you had some pre-linuxexpo bootpack, right ?
Apr 18 18:43:54 <beefxer> http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~miska/
Apr 18 18:43:56 <beefxer> I had that one
Apr 18 18:44:17 <beefxer> still have that one, actually
Apr 18 18:44:27 <marex> well I understand now ;)
Apr 18 18:44:40 <marex> there's a newer version
Apr 18 18:44:43 <marex> ask |miska|
Apr 18 18:45:00 <beefxer> I was talking to him about that yesterday
Apr 18 18:45:16 <beefxer> but doesn't it require a linux box to run the self-installer?
Apr 18 18:45:39 <beefxer> unfortunately I have to wait for another bootpack
Apr 18 18:56:40 <marex> OuChen, sssssss, hello, what do you need ?
Apr 18 18:57:06 <sssssss> need have a rest
Apr 18 18:57:08 <sssssss> u?
Apr 18 18:57:46 <marex> ok, lets ask this way ... what do you need from us ? Need help with linux for Palm ?
Apr 18 18:58:24 <sssssss> at moment now, hello! am i in a general access channel?
Apr 18 18:58:35 <sssssss> i don't think here is more restrictions
Apr 18 18:58:50 <marex> sure ... and I'm asking if you need anything in particular
Apr 18 18:59:15 <sssssss> not especially
Apr 18 18:59:21 <sssssss> thanks anyway marex
Apr 18 18:59:29 <marex> ok
Apr 18 18:59:39 <sssssss> i appreciate u :)
Apr 18 19:44:01 <beefxer> the correct way to shut down is to enter "halt" into console as root, right?
Apr 18 19:48:36 * Sleep_Walker usually use reboot command
Apr 18 19:49:02 <Sleep_Walker> but if you mean powering off - there is suspend-to-mem preffered
Apr 18 19:49:03 <beefxer> hi Sleep_Walker :)
Apr 18 19:49:07 <Sleep_Walker> hi
Apr 18 19:49:26 <beefxer> I was informed that I'm using an old version of the os
Apr 18 19:49:43 <beefxer> http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~miska/
Apr 18 19:50:02 <Sleep_Walker> it depends
Apr 18 19:50:14 <beefxer> that page says "do not use reboot!"
Apr 18 19:50:17 <beefxer> so I don't
Apr 18 19:50:19 <beefxer> :D
Apr 18 19:50:20 <Sleep_Walker> heh :D
Apr 18 19:50:22 <Sleep_Walker> ok
Apr 18 19:50:29 <Sleep_Walker> DON'T USE REBOOT
Apr 18 19:50:35 <beefxer> yessir!
Apr 18 19:50:40 * flyback has to go get ready to go out with his dad and sister, bbl
Apr 18 19:50:43 * Sleep_Walker has removable battery :b
Apr 18 19:50:51 <Sleep_Walker> miska's kernel is more stable and usable
Apr 18 19:50:55 <beefxer> ah hah
Apr 18 19:51:08 <Sleep_Walker> mine is up-to-date, but missing important stuff
Apr 18 19:51:09 <beefxer> I'm using miska's kernel, right?
Apr 18 19:51:24 <Sleep_Walker> miska's pages: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~miska/
Apr 18 19:51:35 <beefxer> right
Apr 18 19:52:24 <beefxer> I'm also confused as to what I should call this os, is it Opie? Angstrom? Miska's special blend?
Apr 18 19:52:38 <Sleep_Walker> OPIE is environment
Apr 18 19:52:41 <beefxer> ah I see
Apr 18 19:52:43 <Sleep_Walker> Angstrom is distribution
Apr 18 19:52:48 <beefxer> ah hah
Apr 18 19:52:49 <Sleep_Walker> Miska is builder :b
Apr 18 19:52:58 <beefxer> cool, I get it now
Apr 18 19:53:11 <Sleep_Walker> Angstrom is distribution which is compiled from OpenEmbedded metadistribution
Apr 18 19:53:24 <Sleep_Walker> Miska's builds are not official Angstrom builds
Apr 18 19:53:38 <Sleep_Walker> it's modified a bit for Palms
Apr 18 19:53:50 <beefxer> I see
Apr 18 19:53:56 <Sleep_Walker> since Palms are not supported in Angstrom (yet)
Apr 18 19:53:58 <beefxer> it sure works well on my tx
Apr 18 19:54:13 <|miska|> And it uses cvs version of opie
Apr 18 19:54:24 <beefxer> does Angstrom plan on supporting older palms?
Apr 18 19:54:44 <Sleep_Walker> beefxer: it's our next task
Apr 18 19:55:04 <beefxer> oh, you are developing Angstrom?
Apr 18 19:55:14 <Sleep_Walker> no, we'd like to join
Apr 18 19:55:22 <beefxer> ah I see
Apr 18 19:55:45 <beefxer> I don't see why you couldn't join, you've done great work here
Apr 18 19:56:03 <|miska|> beefxer: We should finish it first ;-)
Apr 18 19:56:11 <beefxer> ah, details :P
Apr 18 19:56:19 <Sleep_Walker> beefxer: where are you from?
Apr 18 19:56:33 <beefxer> Washington
Apr 18 19:56:39 <beefxer> USA
Apr 18 19:56:45 <Sleep_Walker> I see
Apr 18 19:56:59 <beefxer> how about you?
Apr 18 19:57:11 <Sleep_Walker> Czech republic - same as miska and marex
Apr 18 19:57:18 <beefxer> cool
Apr 18 19:58:53 <beefxer> what kind of palms are you guys using for dev?
Apr 18 19:59:41 * Sleep_Walker has T3, LifeDrive, Treo650 and Treo680
Apr 18 19:59:52 <beefxer> oh nice
Apr 18 19:59:53 <Sleep_Walker> I had T3 only for long time
Apr 18 19:59:59 <Sleep_Walker> Treo650 was crippled
Apr 18 20:00:13 <Sleep_Walker> and LifeDrive is mine newly
Apr 18 20:00:17 <beefxer> I wanted a LifeDrive, but ended up with the TX cuz of the solid state storage
Apr 18 20:00:36 <Sleep_Walker> do you know "LifeFlash"? :)
Apr 18 20:00:45 <beefxer> nope, what's that?
Apr 18 20:01:19 <Sleep_Walker> beefxer: http://howto.wikia.com/wiki/Howto_replace_microdrive_with_compactflash_in_Palm_LifeDrive
Apr 18 20:02:07 <Sleep_Walker> I also tried some higher capacities - my wife has 8gb CF (but there was 32 gb planned)
Apr 18 20:02:13 <beefxer> no way
Apr 18 20:02:14 <marex> but it's still slow as hell
Apr 18 20:02:24 <Sleep_Walker> it means low power consumption, faster etc
Apr 18 20:02:37 <beefxer> that's pretty cool
Apr 18 20:02:57 <Sleep_Walker> beefxer: it did not work - I used some crappy software, but I think that with Linux it will be possible
Apr 18 20:03:28 <marex> (it didn't work for sleepwalker because he used software from PalmPowerups (from Dmitry Grinberg))
Apr 18 20:03:47 <marex> I have my lifeflash working well as I used "the unix way" with "dd"
Apr 18 20:03:49 <beefxer> ah hah
Apr 18 20:03:51 <Sleep_Walker> yes - as I said, crappy software
Apr 18 20:03:56 <marex> yup, avoid palmpowerups
Apr 18 20:04:06 <Sleep_Walker> marex: yes, but you've got 4gb only
Apr 18 20:04:16 <beefxer> marex what's your compact flash card's storage capacity?
Apr 18 20:04:24 <marex> 4 gigs
Apr 18 20:04:28 <beefxer> nice
Apr 18 20:04:30 <marex> I use sandisk ultra II
Apr 18 20:04:37 <marex> (CF card)
Apr 18 20:04:57 <marex> I have 8 Gb SD card too (that one works with linux and openbsd, but doesnt work with palmos)
Apr 18 20:04:59 <Sleep_Walker> marex: I've got it ordered for my LifeDrive :)
Apr 18 20:05:25 <beefxer> I'm using some generic 2gb sd card in my tx
Apr 18 20:05:27 <beefxer> works like a charm
Apr 18 20:05:36 <marex> beefxer, with linux you can use SDHC
Apr 18 20:05:42 <Sleep_Walker> palmos has stupid filesystem drivers
Apr 18 20:05:50 <beefxer> I do wish that palms would use larger cards though
Apr 18 20:05:59 <beefxer> 16gb would be great
Apr 18 20:06:14 <marex> if it's SDHC, it's problem only in PalmOS, in linux it works
Apr 18 20:06:24 <beefxer> so with linux your lifedrive could use 8gb?
Apr 18 20:06:29 <marex> sure
Apr 18 20:06:38 <marex> any of my palms can
Apr 18 20:06:46 <Sleep_Walker> marex: T3? :D
Apr 18 20:06:47 <beefxer> but the problem is booting straight into linux, instead of from palmos
Apr 18 20:06:55 <marex> Sleep_Walker, I dont maintain that one yet
Apr 18 20:07:02 <Sleep_Walker> marex: TT?
Apr 18 20:07:13 <marex> Sleep_Walker, balrog pushed that one
Apr 18 20:07:36 <marex> beefxer, that's why natwrkz wants to send use some devices ... so we can make that possible
Apr 18 20:07:48 <marex> beefxer, you are in contact with him or something ?
Apr 18 20:08:25 <beefxer> we just met yesterday, we were helping eachother with linux stuff
Apr 18 20:08:29 <beefxer> trying at least
Apr 18 20:08:30 <Sleep_Walker> replacing palmos with linux makes possible replacing SD cards on the go
Apr 18 20:08:39 <beefxer> sweet
Apr 18 20:08:47 <marex> beefxer, I see ... ok
Apr 18 20:08:58 <beefxer> that might be a mounting nightmare though
Apr 18 20:09:12 <beefxer> for the typical user, at least
Apr 18 20:09:36 <beefxer> maybe not, I just have linux nightmares from 10 years ago
Apr 18 20:09:38 <marex> not really ... opie has some applet for it
Apr 18 20:09:49 <beefxer> oh cool
Apr 18 20:09:54 <marex> from the days of 2.0 or 1.3 ? ;)
Apr 18 20:10:13 <beefxer> I don't even remember
Apr 18 20:10:29 <beefxer> slackware somethingorother
Apr 18 20:10:57 <marex> yup, slackware was cool, I used it on my old (p166MMX/32MB RAM) lappy
Apr 18 20:11:01 <beefxer> it scared me away from linux for a long time
Apr 18 20:11:17 <marex> why? it was fine :)
Apr 18 20:11:29 <beefxer> I had an old 133mhz in my car running slackware
Apr 18 20:11:31 <beefxer> it was funny
Apr 18 20:11:54 <marex> I have openbsd running on my palm :-B
Apr 18 20:11:59 <marex> it's not funny but cool
Apr 18 20:12:12 <Sleep_Walker> marex: it's not cool, but funny! :D
Apr 18 20:12:16 <beefxer> haha
Apr 18 20:12:26 <marex> Sleep_Walker, well it's semestral work anyway
Apr 18 20:12:49 <marex> as you recall from the speech I had, "I have to finish it anyway" (TM)
Apr 18 20:13:25 <Sleep_Walker> yeah
Apr 18 20:13:39 <Sleep_Walker> well, enjoy as much as you can
Apr 18 20:13:54 <Sleep_Walker> maybe someone will use it
Apr 18 20:13:57 <marex> Sleep_Walker, well, read BSD license and you'll see how much I do
Apr 18 20:14:07 <marex> BSD license is disgusting
Apr 18 20:14:27 <marex> (it's not as long as GPL ... it has a few sentences ;) )
Apr 18 20:14:40 <Sleep_Walker> marex: so M$ guys will download your system, put there crappy GUI and present it as their work? :)
Apr 18 20:14:44 <marex> but it actually made me realize, I'm a GPL guy
Apr 18 20:14:53 <marex> Sleep_Walker, yes, they can do it
Apr 18 20:15:00 <Sleep_Walker> great
Apr 18 20:15:09 <Sleep_Walker> Windows NT on Palm :D
Apr 18 20:15:10 <marex> Sleep_Walker, the only good thing is I'll learn from that system
Apr 18 20:15:40 <marex> it's always good to have more viewpoints on embedded kernel programming
Apr 18 20:16:06 <marex> the linux-way might not always be the best one ... and it can actually help to point out the problems on both sides
Apr 18 20:16:44 <Sleep_Walker> marex: btw. you need to publish it with BSD license?
Apr 18 20:16:51 <Sleep_Walker> you can't publish it as GPL?
Apr 18 20:16:52 <marex> moreover, I think OpenBSD is more secure than linux ... you can build some "high-availability" DYI network component
Apr 18 20:17:04 <marex> Sleep_Walker, I cant ... *BSD kernel doesnt contain any GPL code
Apr 18 20:17:19 <Sleep_Walker> any, but yours
Apr 18 20:17:31 <marex> they wont merge it then
Apr 18 20:17:37 <marex> and I want to get commit access there ;)
Apr 18 20:17:50 <Sleep_Walker> heh
Apr 18 20:18:57 <marex> I'll be 'dere, eatin' the'r lectronz
Apr 18 20:19:00 <marex> ;-)
Apr 18 20:20:06 <beefxer> lol, is that your american southerner accent?
Apr 18 20:20:42 <marex> beefxer, I'm Czech ;-)
Apr 18 20:21:00 <beefxer> yeah it's cool
Apr 18 20:21:04 <marex> something very similar was some time ago on /.
Apr 18 20:21:24 <beefxer> gotta love /.
Apr 18 21:41:34 <notone70> Hi,  first I like to thank miska, sleep_walker, marex, and beefxer, for the dedicated help in getting this palm wifi project to the children jennings, mo, and then the entire southern, ill and mo region. it's huge and we are glad to be amongst all of you. natwrkz and I have been hard at work with these wonderful gifts.
Apr 18 21:44:14 <Sleep_Walker> so - success?
Apr 18 21:44:51 <notone70> not yet
Apr 18 21:45:37 <notone70> refomatting cards and and going over script
Apr 18 21:45:45 <Sleep_Walker> forget script
Apr 18 21:46:00 <notone70> ok
Apr 18 21:47:18 <natwrkz> And just make the build. Were doing that also
Apr 18 21:47:36 <notone70> will do
Apr 18 21:48:14 <Sleep_Walker> btw. eyeOS on TX sounds really interesting
Apr 18 21:48:40 <natwrkz> thats why weve been working around the clock
Apr 18 21:48:42 <Sleep_Walker> some webkit based Internet browser could do the work
Apr 18 21:49:04 <Sleep_Walker> but will eyeOS support small screens?
Apr 18 21:49:33 <natwrkz> yes we have a mobile site eyeOS.motownwireless.com/mobile
Apr 18 21:52:08 <notone70> 10's of thousands of units are siitting across the nation and together we have the solution.
Apr 18 21:54:34 <Sleep_Walker> wow
Apr 18 21:58:52 <Sleep_Walker> sounds like opensource solution instead of palm's web os :)
Apr 18 21:59:10 * Sleep_Walker never thought this way
Apr 18 21:59:16 <notone70> exactly
Apr 18 22:01:32 <marex> notone70, what's the login ? ;)
Apr 18 22:02:24 <Sleep_Walker> marex: you can try http://eyeos.info/mobile/
Apr 18 22:03:19 <marex> wrong user or password ;)
Apr 18 22:03:38 <marex> Sleep_Walker, I asked for LOGIN
Apr 18 22:04:05 <Sleep_Walker> marex: sorry - once again for RTFMless people :)
Apr 18 22:04:18 <Sleep_Walker> marex: http://eyeos.info - register
Apr 18 22:04:27 <Sleep_Walker> marex: http://eyeos.info/mobile - try mobile access
Apr 18 22:04:36 <Sleep_Walker> marex: clear? ;)
Apr 18 22:04:53 <notone70> got it
Apr 18 22:05:37 <beefxer> hi notone70
Apr 18 22:05:56 <notone70> hello
Apr 18 22:06:13 <notone70> how's everything going
Apr 18 22:07:04 <beefxer> going great, you?
Apr 18 22:07:07 <marex> hm, it's nice
Apr 18 22:07:15 <notone70> same
Apr 18 22:07:23 <Sleep_Walker> marex: mobile version?
Apr 18 22:07:28 <beefxer> still working on formatting that sd card?
Apr 18 22:07:51 <notone70> at the forefront of the meeting this monday along with the palm
Apr 18 22:08:10 <notone70> fromatted
Apr 18 22:09:11 <notone70> starting build process
Apr 18 22:09:32 <marex> Sleep_Walker, even the desktop one ;)
Apr 18 22:09:44 * marex looks forward to hacking on TXes 8)
Apr 18 22:09:50 <notone70> yes
Apr 18 22:10:03 <marex> Sleep_Walker, if it runs this, then it's very worth it
Apr 18 22:12:26 <beefxer> wow this EyeOs is pretty cool
Apr 18 22:13:25 <marex> beefxer, I thought you were in this stuff too
Apr 18 22:13:42 <beefxer> nope I'm just learning about it
Apr 18 22:16:08 <beefxer> the mobile version is really simple
Apr 18 22:17:48 <marex> wow this is nice ... TX has a debuging connector
Apr 18 22:18:06 <beefxer> the usb "synch" cable?
Apr 18 22:19:59 <marex> very probably similar to this one http://hackndev.com/node/230
Apr 18 22:37:13 <marex> http://www.freelabs.com/~whitis/electronics/jtag/ nice
Apr 18 22:47:14 <notone70> attempted twice still no load. gonna take a few moments break to pack. brb
Apr 18 23:03:57 <marex> PalmTX GPIO9 - touchscreen IRQ :)
Apr 18 23:14:15 <marex> PalmTX GPIO27 - wm9712l IRQ :)
Apr 18 23:25:49 * flyback ponders getting linux properly installed on his sempon64 3200+ so he can figure out GTA:SA in a vm
Apr 19 00:19:26 <Sleep_Walker> marex: GPIO9?
Apr 19 00:19:40 <Sleep_Walker> marex: what is its behaviour?
Apr 19 00:19:45 <Sleep_Walker> high on touch?
Apr 19 00:23:58 <Sleep_Walker> marex: can you confirm that GPIOs on LD or T5?
Apr 19 00:24:04 <marex> Sleep_Walker, not yet
Apr 19 00:24:45 <marex> might be 11 there
Apr 19 00:25:31 <Sleep_Walker> marex: what is that behaviour?
Apr 19 00:26:31 <marex> Sleep_Walker, well if you desolder CPU and use "beep-through" mode on MPMeter, you can see it's connected ;)
Apr 19 00:38:24 <Sleep_Walker> marex: changing direction and level of GPIO11 does nothing
Apr 19 00:38:28 <marex> Sleep_Walker, when will I have TX ?
Apr 19 00:38:37 <marex> the one from kEdAR ?
Apr 19 00:39:05 <Sleep_Walker> well, if I read it correctly, there wasn't TX mentioned
Apr 19 00:39:15 <marex> where ?
Apr 19 00:39:54 <Sleep_Walker> I sent you mine and kEdAR's dialogue - remember?
Apr 19 00:40:12 <marex> kedar told me TX is fine too
Apr 19 00:40:22 <Sleep_Walker> really?
Apr 19 00:40:27 <marex> (I spoke with him at about the same time)
Apr 19 00:40:32 <marex> yes
Apr 19 00:40:34 <Sleep_Walker> well, then I'll give it to miska on monday
Apr 19 00:40:44 <marex> ok
Apr 19 00:40:54 <Sleep_Walker> no soldering!
Apr 19 00:42:04 <marex> I'll wait for the palms from natwrks do solder into them ;-)
Apr 19 00:42:25 <natwrkz> :)
Apr 19 00:42:42 <natwrkz> they'll ship tuesday
Apr 19 00:42:59 <marex> natwrkz, be sure to use DHL or something so they wont get broken
Apr 19 00:43:26 <marex> btw. I measured the JTAG pinout on desoldered board, it's different from the one on hackndev.com page
Apr 19 00:43:41 <natwrkz> okay
Apr 19 00:44:47 <marex> looks like the JTAG programmer is $100 ... the cheapest one
Apr 19 00:45:13 <marex> (or $2 in case of parallel port version, but that has many annoying limitations)
Apr 19 00:45:51 <natwrkz> where is the cheapest place to buy
Apr 19 00:46:58 <natwrkz> Were going to pull units from the stock instantly for u but then will replace to keep the number together
Apr 19 00:47:57 <marex> you wont need the JTAG programmer ;)
Apr 19 00:48:28 <marex> you'll just run some kind of installer
Apr 19 00:49:11 <marex> natwrkz, btw if you have some data cable (preferably serial port one) there, you can add it and send it here too ... it'd be helpful when working with uboot bootloader
Apr 19 00:49:23 <marex> *palmtx data cable
Apr 19 00:50:52 <flyback> marex
Apr 19 00:50:55 <flyback> what limitations
Apr 19 00:50:56 <flyback> it's slow?
Apr 19 00:50:57 <flyback> big deal
Apr 19 00:51:07 * flyback smacks marex
Apr 19 00:51:24 <natwrkz> right know where to get those
Apr 19 00:51:30 <marex> flyback, slow, not really reliable etc.
Apr 19 00:52:01 <flyback> why not really realiable
Apr 19 00:52:10 <flyback> a buffered wiggler should be good for any +5 or +3.3 device
Apr 19 00:52:29 <flyback> and one with a dual VCC buffer or LVX/LVC series should be able to handle 2.5 and 1.8
Apr 19 00:52:36 <flyback> but yeah the straight thru resistor ones
Apr 19 00:52:37 <flyback> I wouldn't do
Apr 19 00:52:50 <flyback> except for one device known 100% to work
Apr 19 00:52:51 <flyback> but even then
Apr 19 00:52:54 <marex> http://marex.hackndev.com/handheld-hardware/ if you mean this one, you MUST have very short wires
Apr 19 00:52:55 <flyback> i rather still have the buffer
Apr 19 00:52:56 <flyback> less risk
Apr 19 00:53:09 <flyback> you shouldn't
Apr 19 00:53:11 <flyback> for the buffered one
Apr 19 00:53:18 <flyback> http://marex.hackndev.com/handheld-hardware/JTAG/jtagwigglersch.png
Apr 19 00:53:19 <flyback> this one
Apr 19 00:53:23 <marex> yes
Apr 19 00:53:25 <marex> that one
Apr 19 00:53:37 <marex> it doesnt work with wires longer then few centimeters
Apr 19 00:53:40 <flyback> then you did something wrong
Apr 19 00:53:52 <marex> nah, that's not a bug, but a feature
Apr 19 00:53:56 <flyback> dude
Apr 19 00:54:00 <flyback> my friernds build these all the time
Apr 19 00:54:06 <flyback> what chip did you use
Apr 19 00:54:29 <marex> it's not the issue of the chip ;-)
Apr 19 00:54:37 <flyback> i'm not saying you are an idiot, I am trying to help
Apr 19 00:54:40 <marex> I know what I'm doing there, trust me
Apr 19 00:54:43 <flyback> I am thinking it might be
Apr 19 00:54:46 <flyback> I know you do
Apr 19 00:55:14 <flyback> mabye if you powered from the parallel port
Apr 19 00:55:19 <flyback> you can only go a few cm
Apr 19 00:55:23 <flyback> I used a external power
Apr 19 00:55:29 <flyback> usb + ldo will work
Apr 19 00:55:34 <flyback> as long as the total is below 500ma
Apr 19 00:55:53 <flyback> well either way marex
Apr 19 00:56:03 <flyback> you are welcome to ask in #electronics if you ever want to
Apr 19 00:56:04 <marex> yea, I was powered from LPT
Apr 19 00:56:14 <flyback> see if anyone has any bettter ideas for fixing length
Apr 19 00:56:25 <flyback> I used a broken sata to usb enclosure
Apr 19 00:56:36 <flyback> used the +5 power supply and cut up the broken sata to usb bridge board
Apr 19 00:56:38 <marex> well as I dont have parallel port too accessible here, I'll go for the USB one, it's worth it
Apr 19 00:56:40 <flyback> and soldered to the +3.3 ldo
Apr 19 00:56:50 <flyback> you can also do usb to lpt wiggler
Apr 19 00:56:52 <flyback> some people have done that
Apr 19 00:56:56 <flyback> did you see the FTDI chip ones
Apr 19 00:57:01 <flyback> those are supported by OS tools
Apr 19 00:57:04 <marex> yes, I saw that
Apr 19 00:57:08 <flyback> pretty cheap too
Apr 19 00:57:13 <flyback> slow but cheap
Apr 19 00:57:16 <flyback> and will work in usb
Apr 19 00:57:36 <flyback> yeah I couldn't get my jtab working yet either but it could be the device I am testing
Apr 19 00:57:57 <flyback> lemme find the chip name again
Apr 19 00:58:02 <flyback> I also say this cheap chip from TI
Apr 19 00:58:08 <flyback> it was just a parallel bus to JTAG chip
Apr 19 00:58:34 <flyback> kinda like wiggler but the chip takes care of parallel ---> serial conversion and bitrate I guess
Apr 19 00:58:38 <marex> flyback, well I'm now checking the wm97xx stuff ...
Apr 19 00:59:39 <flyback> http://www.hs-augsburg.de/~hhoegl/proj/usbjtag/usbjtag.html
Apr 19 01:01:17 <flyback> what's neat about this one is
Apr 19 01:01:25 <flyback> it can do i2c, rs232, spi also
Apr 19 01:01:26 <flyback> http://www.ftdichip.com/Products/FT2232C.htm
Apr 19 01:01:38 <flyback> sorry not rs232
Apr 19 01:01:39 <flyback> uart
Apr 19 01:02:44 <flyback> hmm
Apr 19 01:02:47 <flyback> trying to find name of that cheap ic
Apr 19 01:04:00 <flyback> I dunno how you feel
Apr 19 01:04:03 <flyback> but personally
Apr 19 01:04:15 <flyback> even slow parallel wiggler taking overnight to reprogram
Apr 19 01:04:23 <flyback> beats trying to unsolder tsop flash :)
Apr 19 01:04:26 <flyback> and then solder back on
Apr 19 01:04:55 <flyback> I think it was this guy
Apr 19 01:04:56 <flyback> http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/sn74lvt8980a.html
Apr 19 01:05:07 <flyback> someone used this on amd elan the boards I am tryign to program
Apr 19 01:05:16 <flyback> and I guess it works with the same wiggler driver
Apr 19 01:07:01 <marex> flyback, well ... I'll take care of the JTAG programmer ;)
Apr 19 01:07:10 <marex> (and if needed, even the serial palm-connected cable_
Apr 19 01:07:10 <flyback> ok good luck :)
Apr 19 01:07:11 <marex> )
Apr 19 01:07:13 <marex> dont worry
Apr 19 01:07:28 <flyback> palm serial cable is easy :)
Apr 19 01:07:54 <flyback> just need a max232 to connect to serial port or ftdi232
Apr 19 01:07:57 <flyback> for usb
Apr 19 01:08:04 <flyback> I used pl2303's I love them
Apr 19 01:08:25 <flyback> talked to routers, hard drives (yes seagates have a serial interface you can talk to the dsp and firmware) and many other devices
Apr 19 01:08:40 <flyback> I destroyed 3 of them though when I connected to power pins instead of data higher than +5
Apr 19 01:08:41 <flyback> :/
Apr 19 01:08:49 <Sleep_Walker> gn
Apr 19 01:19:25 <natwrkz> beefxer, would linux box?
Apr 19 01:20:18 <beefxer> huh?
Apr 19 01:22:44 <natwrkz> you have a vista machine would you like for me to send you a box for you to build linux on
Apr 19 01:22:57 <beefxer> are you serious?
Apr 19 01:23:04 <flyback> uh
Apr 19 01:23:11 <marex> natwrkz, why dont you just give him ssh access to some ?
Apr 19 01:23:11 <flyback> he just needs linux to build stuff?
Apr 19 01:23:15 <flyback> IT'S CALLED A VIRTUAL MACHINE
Apr 19 01:23:20 * flyback smacks the channel around
Apr 19 01:23:23 <marex> flyback, calm down
Apr 19 01:28:27 <beefxer> hey marex what distro of linux do you and miska run?
Apr 19 01:28:38 <beefxer> or bsd
Apr 19 01:28:47 <marex> I run debian and openbsd
Apr 19 01:28:53 <marex> miska probably gentoo and opensuse
Apr 19 01:29:00 <beefxer> ok cool
Apr 19 01:30:09 <marex> why ?
Apr 19 01:30:31 <beefxer> just wondering, the last distro I ran was ubuntu
Apr 19 01:30:48 <beefxer> it was very well set up for the average user
Apr 19 01:31:12 <marex> poor you :)
Apr 19 01:31:16 <beefxer> :)
Apr 19 01:32:09 <beefxer> I grew up with MacOs. :(
Apr 19 01:32:26 <beefxer> my parents were educators, so they thought macs were great
Apr 19 01:32:32 <beefxer> (they were wrong)
Apr 19 01:33:14 <flyback> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BgpJ_uqDwU <-- wow this is worse than I thought
Apr 19 01:33:40 <marex> beefxer, MacOS is fine for average user
Apr 19 01:34:45 <beefxer> it is much better now, OSX changed everything
Apr 19 01:34:57 <beefxer> but the classic macos was like palmos on a desktop
Apr 19 01:35:45 <beefxer> drywall eh
Apr 19 01:35:56 <marex> you're not that very far from truth about classic macOS
Apr 19 01:36:27 <beefxer> apple started to get a clue around macos 9
Apr 19 01:36:49 <flyback> no
Apr 19 01:36:51 <beefxer> but really OSX fixed it
Apr 19 01:36:51 <flyback> mac os X
Apr 19 01:36:54 <flyback> 9 still is like win9x
Apr 19 01:36:58 <flyback> any app can shitcan the os
Apr 19 01:37:21 <beefxer> yeah but it wasn't quite as limited
Apr 19 01:37:27 <beefxer> still sucked, don't get me wrong.
Apr 19 01:39:48 * flyback needs to find somewhere to run GTA SA so he can send people to hell
Apr 19 01:40:37 <beefxer> that's why I run vista - I game so much
Apr 19 01:44:09 <marex> what about dual-boot ?
Apr 19 01:44:31 <beefxer> I guess I could, but my hdd is only 80gb
Apr 19 01:44:39 <beefxer> :(
Apr 19 01:44:57 <beefxer> it's a laptop too, so drivers might be a pain
Apr 19 01:45:25 <beefxer> though, I'm betting that they got lenovos pretty well covered
Apr 19 01:45:39 <beefxer> on most distros
Apr 19 01:46:57 <marex> I have T61
Apr 19 01:47:09 <beefxer> sweet
Apr 19 01:47:18 <beefxer> I have T61p
Apr 19 01:47:26 * flyback breaks down and installs windows 2000 on his main desktop
Apr 19 01:47:57 <beefxer> flyback if you have modern hardware I highly recommend trying vista
Apr 19 01:48:25 <marex> looks like you have too much money
Apr 19 01:48:31 <beefxer> I resisted vista for so long
Apr 19 01:48:37 <flyback> me?
Apr 19 01:48:43 <flyback> marex it's a old system
Apr 19 01:48:47 <beefxer> me? naw, I'm a student :)
Apr 19 01:48:50 <flyback> friend in HK bought me the mb and chip
Apr 19 01:49:04 <flyback> it's even got a bad cap :/
Apr 19 01:49:13 <beefxer> ouch
Apr 19 01:49:19 <marex> flyback, old ? T61p is pretty something still
Apr 19 01:49:27 <marex> even the T61 is quite good
Apr 19 01:49:32 <beefxer> marex he's talking about his desktop
Apr 19 01:49:32 <flyback> oh you weren't talking to me
Apr 19 01:49:37 <flyback> thought you were saying I had a lot of $$
Apr 19 01:49:52 <marex> hm
Apr 19 01:50:39 <beefxer> if it makes you feel better, I have the slowest cpu in the t61p
Apr 19 01:50:55 <beefxer> 1.8ghz I think
Apr 19 01:52:22 <marex> well I dont envy you
Apr 19 01:52:28 <beefxer> :)
Apr 19 01:52:28 <marex> just the fullhd lcd is nice
Apr 19 01:52:50 <beefxer> yeah it's pretty
Apr 19 01:52:59 <beefxer> I use it as my secondary screen
Apr 19 01:53:23 <beefxer> it's crisper than my main screen though
Apr 19 02:56:26 <natwrkz> marex, I'm ready #debata
Apr 19 02:56:49 <marex> ready for what ?
Apr 19 02:57:02 <natwrkz> ssh
Apr 19 02:57:36 <marex> huh ? beefxer wanted that
Apr 19 02:57:49 <beefxer> me?
Apr 19 02:58:04 <beefxer> nope...
Apr 19 02:58:11 <marex> well ... natwrkz wanted to send you a machine and I advised him to get you just SSH access somewhere
Apr 19 02:58:18 <beefxer> oh I see
Apr 19 02:58:27 <marex> probably a misunderstanding
Apr 19 02:59:17 <beefxer> I thought he was setting up ssh so you could help him install the latest version of miska's ok
Apr 19 02:59:20 <beefxer> OS
Apr 19 02:59:39 <marex> it's not miska's OS, it's just his userspace that's used
Apr 19 02:59:51 <beefxer> what should I call it?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Apr 19 02:59:57 2009