**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 09 02:59:57 2009 Jun 09 20:58:07 WyrM, hi, are you around ? Jun 09 20:58:19 yes Jun 09 20:58:58 WyrM, are you in US by any chance ? Jun 09 20:59:27 marex: no, I'm from .br. :) Jun 09 20:59:40 dang ... I need to get my hands in Palm Pre patches ... http://opensource.palm.com/ Jun 09 20:59:54 they claim they will send them to you by papermail Jun 09 21:00:13 idiots ... really Jun 09 21:00:28 tmzt: ^^^^ Jun 09 21:00:42 but I discussed it with SFLC already and they said it's perfectly legal ... I hate this behaviour Jun 09 21:00:44 marex: tmzt is on US. Jun 09 21:00:57 tmzt, hi ;-) long time no see Jun 09 21:01:11 WyrM, thanks Jun 09 21:01:20 I think I noticed him at #htc-linux Jun 09 21:01:20 Motorola also did this on the beginning, sending CDs by mail. Jun 09 21:01:41 but they always end on the net anyway :) Jun 09 21:01:44 WyrM, well ... they use OUR work and if we want something back they tell us to fuck off Jun 09 21:01:47 that pisses me Jun 09 21:08:23 "Strace" Jun 09 21:08:40 lol, did they really include strace on the firmware? :) Jun 09 21:10:45 in Pre ? Jun 09 21:10:46 :D Jun 09 21:11:18 yeah, its on the Open_Source_Information.pdf Jun 09 21:11:52 it lists all Open Source software they used. Jun 09 21:12:33 really. Jun 09 21:12:47 palm is _good_ at complying with gpl. Jun 09 21:13:30 well, I hope they don't take much time to release the sources. Jun 09 21:13:57 motorola takes between 6 months and 1 year after the device is on market. Jun 09 21:13:59 scrip.auculo.us vs. script.aculo.us ? wtf Jun 09 21:14:25 well I'll upload the sources once I get my hand on them Jun 09 21:16:04 I don't see bluez tools on the document. Jun 09 21:16:14 does it have bluetooth? Jun 09 21:16:36 I think it does Jun 09 21:17:19 then they are probably not using bluez. Jun 09 21:17:37 maybe it doesn't have BT, but that's be weird Jun 09 21:17:45 hm, it has BT Jun 09 21:17:51 # Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR with A2DP stereo Bluetooth support Jun 09 21:17:58 they have to be using bluez ;-) Jun 09 21:18:09 not really ;) Jun 09 21:18:11 btw. I don't see linux kernel listed anywhere there Jun 09 21:18:18 bluetooth on ezx is proprietary stuff. Jun 09 21:18:32 on magx (kernel 2.6) its affix bluetooth stack, not bluez. Jun 09 21:18:41 Linux kernel is. Jun 09 21:18:46 aha, ok Jun 09 21:28:07 marex: what worries me is the "only certain files are licensed under GPL". Jun 09 21:28:40 e2fsprogs is GPL isn't? or LGPL? Jun 09 21:28:44 WyrM, well their webcrapOS isn't GPL for sure Jun 09 21:28:58 WyrM, why would they have e2fsprogs there ? Jun 09 21:29:08 only certain files are licensed under GPL --> what about GPLv2 ? Jun 09 21:29:54 I don't think that they would ever use GPLv3. :) Jun 09 21:30:20 the point is, if you link some software to a GPL lib, the software has to be GPL too. Jun 09 21:30:46 that's why they use web-based approach - no linking needed Jun 09 21:31:00 they can't release "only certain files are licensed under GPL", at least not if they work together. Jun 09 21:31:13 eg, they can't release incomplete source code for e2fsprogs. Jun 09 21:32:02 and take a look at which software is listed as "only certain files are licensed under GPL" Jun 09 21:32:46 libgpg-error PPP e2fsprogs libgcrypt Jun 09 21:32:50 weird :) Jun 09 21:32:59 WyrM, let's move this conversation to #sflc :-) Jun 09 21:33:05 they will be pleased to verify Jun 09 21:33:32 well, we don't have the source code.. :) Jun 09 21:33:40 so we are just guessing. LOL. Jun 09 21:35:13 WyrM, they must have good lawyers so they don't have to bother with opensource movement too much ... just take the code and screw them Jun 09 21:35:43 hum. Jun 09 21:35:49 it doesn't work like this. Jun 09 21:36:40 a single open source developer can block the device distribution on a whole country if they infringe his copyright. Jun 09 21:36:51 each day that they can't sell costs a fortune. Jun 09 21:37:04 WyrM, which is what I'm going to do in case they wont release the sources Jun 09 21:38:05 WyrM, we aren't hacking on kernel for Palm Inc.'s good, we are hacking on kernel because we like to do so and for our own good Jun 09 21:38:25 but for you to do this, you need: Jun 09 21:38:25 1. they have to be selling the device on your country Jun 09 21:38:25 2. you have to own copyright on some code they are using. (or someone else has to give you the copyright rights). Jun 09 21:38:26 Palm Inc. should be just grateful that they are allowed to use the source Jun 09 21:38:55 WyrM, well I can use SFLC for this purpose :-) Jun 09 21:39:14 but you can't do anything. :) Jun 09 21:39:46 WyrM, I can buy the Pre and send them to hell :-) Jun 09 21:40:10 the copyright holder has to do the legal stuff himself. Jun 09 21:40:24 this is what makes things hard for us... :) Jun 09 21:40:33 heh Jun 09 21:40:37 WyrM, not really ... notifying the project won't be hard Jun 09 21:40:46 you haven't seem how it works yet.. ;) Jun 09 21:40:49 and they'll simply contact SFLC instead of me Jun 09 21:40:52 they will release the source code. Jun 09 21:40:58 its the easy part. Jun 09 21:41:02 WyrM, I hope so Jun 09 21:41:09 WyrM, but the code should have been out already Jun 09 21:41:11 it will not contain anything that is very interesting.. Jun 09 21:41:13 the device is already selling Jun 09 21:41:27 sometimes they implement drivers with 2 ioctls. Jun 09 21:41:43 one to read, and another to write to registers. Jun 09 21:41:46 WyrM, yes, that sucks Jun 09 21:41:57 they lock you out easily. Jun 09 21:42:02 everything is signed. Jun 09 21:42:09 bootloader, kernel, rootfs. Jun 09 21:42:27 WyrM, that's what I hate about them - snatch your code and laugh at you Jun 09 21:42:29 they can release the source code, and all you can do is build it. Jun 09 21:42:38 you can't run it on your own device. Jun 09 21:42:51 that's why they don't use gplv3. :) Jun 09 21:43:06 WyrM, well, you always have JTAG :-) Jun 09 21:43:21 not really ;) Jun 09 21:43:29 they can disable jtag too. Jun 09 21:43:39 WyrM, how? it's always on the CPU Jun 09 21:44:05 and some cpus have a "secure mode". Jun 09 21:44:42 xscale and omap doesn't have it iirc Jun 09 21:44:52 omap has. Jun 09 21:45:02 shit Jun 09 21:45:16 they hadn't back in my omap days Jun 09 21:45:29 not all omaps have. Jun 09 21:45:30 well that was omap1 though, now there's omap4 Jun 09 21:45:33 :-) Jun 09 21:46:10 they have 2 versions of newer omaps nowadays, one with security another "normal" Jun 09 21:46:28 and there is OTP, etc.. Jun 09 21:46:32 hm, I lost track of those long ago Jun 09 21:46:40 ewwww Jun 09 21:46:40 if they want to lock you out, they do it. period. Jun 09 21:46:54 you have to find your own way in. Jun 09 21:47:00 WyrM, then there has to be some software way Jun 09 21:47:16 yeah Jun 09 21:47:30 they are "time to market" people. :) Jun 09 21:47:41 software always have flaws. Jun 09 21:47:42 LOL Jun 09 21:47:53 http://wiki.openezx.org/MotoMAGX_weakness_of_kernel_modules_hashes Jun 09 21:47:58 yup ... and we know our software better then they do ;-) Jun 09 21:49:13 sh access was hacked because of a flaw on opera. Jun 09 21:49:25 :D Jun 09 21:51:48 magx case was funny. Jun 09 21:52:11 dimichxp hacked "motsecurity.ko" kernel module to gain access to kernel memory. Jun 09 21:52:47 which can be then used to do whatever you need ... nice one **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 01:42:29 2009 **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 01:42:49 2009 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 01:54:52 2009