**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 17 02:59:57 2019 Jan 17 03:06:28 Anybody home :) Jan 17 03:14:52 Hi I need help setting up hallium Jan 17 03:15:05 is there anybody that can help Jan 17 04:12:13 Hi anybody here? Jan 17 04:16:29 @goran_, Bear in mind we are all volunteers and may not be here at all times, what's your issue? Jan 17 05:35:03 For my tizen device (Z2) woukd I still require the same config edits? Or are there different requirements to get halium-boot/hybris-boot working? Jan 17 07:30:53 😭😭 why it can't find boot_signer Jan 17 18:33:42 @WaseemAlkurdi, has anyone made a mirror yet? Jan 17 18:33:46 can i shut it down? Jan 17 19:00:06 I set up a mirror on https://archive.kaidan.im/halium-ivan, but the server is actually hosted by LNJ, so I can't guarantee how long it will stay there. Jan 17 19:14:26 I can mirror it, I have the space to spare, I can't do anything till I get home though Jan 17 19:15:19 @JBBgameich, thank you, that helps a lot Jan 17 19:58:42 @JBBgameich, Hey, just FYI: it turned out, there is another occurence in /usr/bin/plasma-phone and some settings in /etc/xdg. Window borders are now showing up :) Jan 17 19:58:50 However the mouse cursor is not. I mean, I can use the mouse but I cannot see it. Is there any resonable explanation for that behavior? Is this a setting or rather a bug? Thanks in advance for any suggestions... Jan 17 20:01:06 (Document) https://irc.ubports.com/bW90MGKZ.xml Jan 17 20:01:12 You may try out the attached manifest - I uploaded anything to github... Would be nice if you reported if it's working for you, so I can PR the manifest... Jan 17 21:22:47 Just in case anyone is interested, there actually is a ramdisk on the Samsung Z2 with init files. It's just a separate partition Jan 17 21:26:22 @Qiangong2 in that case you can probably replace it with halium-boot ramdisk (or postmarketOS one, depending on what you try to boot) Jan 17 21:36:14 @Daniel, Oh, you can probably uninstall plasma-phone-settings completely. The mouse cursor could be a problem with the hwcomposer backend, maybe the mouse cursor stuff is just not implemented since nobody needed it on mobile devices so far. Jan 17 21:36:45 @NotKit, Okay, I'll try that, thanks! Jan 17 21:37:36 I would advice to try with postmarketOS first, as they had booted non-Android devices with that, halium-boot may have troubles setting up USB network without Android USB gadget in kernel Jan 17 21:38:14 Okay, is there a ramdisk I should use specifically? Is it on github? Jan 17 21:38:57 in case of halium-boot - yes, for postmarketOS it is compiled as part of build process Jan 17 21:39:33 Okay, so just make a generic device in pm init? Jan 17 21:39:37 And use that? Jan 17 21:41:01 yes Jan 17 21:52:38 Okay, thanks Jan 18 00:37:05 How does one clone Halium for Android 9.0 Pie? OnePlus 6 does not have source for 7.x. Jan 18 00:37:31 Wondering about this cmd: Jan 18 00:37:33 repo init -u https://github.com/Halium/android -b halium-7.1 --depth=1 Jan 18 00:38:00 Halium does not have any project for Android 8 or 9 yet Jan 18 00:38:29 Is there any way around it? What makes it so that it has to be 7.x instead of 8.x or 9.x? Jan 18 00:38:56 Android does not really have any standards, and each version breaks compatibility with older versions in some way or another Jan 18 00:39:24 In Android 8+, Treble came around and introduced a few technologies which Halium has not been adapted to yet Jan 18 00:39:42 Until that adaptation happens, we will not be able to support Android 8 or 9 Jan 18 00:39:46 or higher Jan 18 00:40:20 Is Treble really a big deal? Isn't literally the difference being that cache partition being absent, and having two system partitions? Jan 18 00:40:58 No, it's things like hwcomposer2 (I think that's its name) becoming mandatory and other updates throughout the source tree Jan 18 00:42:49 Okay, that makes more sense. If one wants to port GNU/Linux to current Android devices running 8.x+, is there anything I can do to port rom like Sailfish/Plasma Mobile? Jan 18 00:43:18 Sailfish has their own HADK which (I think) supports Android 8. That's based on Mer Jan 18 00:43:40 Unfortunately Ubuntu Touch and Plasma Mobile are stuck in the past for the time being Jan 18 00:43:45 < Ubuntu Touch dev Jan 18 00:44:46 Interesting. What makes adaptation of a GNU/Linux so much challenging, given that the kernel source + config is widely available (including its blobs), and since architecture is already natively supported? Jan 18 00:45:59 Android uses its own drivers for many things (especially graphics and radio). These are built with bionic libc, which the Android team created early in its life to combat glibc's problems on ARM Jan 18 00:46:03 Mainly, high power usage Jan 18 00:46:30 Android is architected so these drivers almost never need to touch the kernel, they run entirely in userspace Jan 18 00:47:05 Wowsers, that sounds like a nightmare. Jan 18 00:47:16 Therefore, manufacturers don't need to provide the source of the drivers or the way they talk to the rest of the system Jan 18 00:47:41 This whole architecture is handled by Android Services, which are actually really cool when you think about it... but also scary. Jan 18 00:48:07 For example, hwcomposer is the module that handles putting things on the screen as opposed to DRM Jan 18 00:49:41 Okay, if I understand you correctly, as opposed to a regular distribution, Android decided to implement the critical drivers into userspace, and uses different standards than standard distribution. Jan 18 00:49:50 Exactly Jan 18 00:50:59 So, Halium and Sailfish's HADK provide interfaces to glibc-based distributions to talk to these bionic-based Services and drivers Jan 18 00:51:18 So, in order to port a regular distribution, what exactly one must do to get the drivers in order? Write a abstraction layer that links drivers from Android to the kernel, or somehow find the drivers that's compatible with distribution? Jan 18 00:51:32 Ah, they already did that. Jan 18 00:51:36 Well, there are a few options. Jan 18 00:52:02 Libhybris (https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris) uses bionic-based drivers in glibc systems. It's a translator effectively Jan 18 00:52:18 It's most useful for GPU drivers, like Adreno Jan 18 00:52:22 So we need something like a wrapper. Jan 18 00:52:51 Is that a reason why Halium (and perhaps others) require source tree of LineageOS, where it has the drivers? Jan 18 00:53:09 Yes, along with the headers and initialization to get them up and running Jan 18 00:53:28 The other option is to go full Stallman and reverse-engineer all the hardware in a phone Jan 18 00:53:50 If the work has already been done to translate between bionic-based drivers to glibc, am I correct to assume that only thing as a porter has to do, is to clone the necessary sources and build the images? Jan 18 00:53:58 That, I don't think is a sensible option. Jan 18 00:54:09 Fragmentation of devices would be *insane* Jan 18 00:54:30 Reverse engineering is extremely time-consuming and in some cases impossible or illegal. The radio, for example, is illegal to reverse-engineer in some jurisdictions due to airwave laws Jan 18 00:55:45 As for the translation, every device is a little different. Android is a huge series of hacks for most devices (even Nexuses and Pixels, they aren't saints) and sometimes things must come up in a certain order or be poked in a certain way to function Jan 18 00:57:34 Would that matter to a developer who's porting existing Android rom to a Linux distro? Jan 18 00:57:52 There are some other wrappers which are needed... For example, we have compatibility layers between `ofono`, Intel's modem manager, and `rild`, Android's modem manager Jan 18 00:58:05 Simdol, I don't exactly understand that question. Jan 18 00:59:28 I guess I am unsure of current wrapper's status. If an AOSP based rom already has drivers that are individually tuned or hacked to run on a certain device, given that wrapper just translates instructions written in bionic to glibc, shouldn't it just 'work'? Jan 18 00:59:51 It should... but the tools to port aren't quite so robust Jan 18 01:00:57 If there was enough momentum behind Halium, I think we could get it to the point of "Take Android tree, put in Halium parts, install into glibc-based distro, troubleshoot with Halium tools to get all the answers, done" Jan 18 01:01:40 Yeah, that's what I was confused about. Instructions I read make it seem so much easier than I envisioned. Jan 18 01:01:53 Building is the easy part Jan 18 01:02:02 And even that is pretty hard, since you need to change the kernel config Jan 18 01:02:19 Which surfaces a lot of bugs in the kernel that the Android common kernel didn't fix Jan 18 01:02:23 Don't you just have to change kernel config to include systemd support? Jan 18 01:02:26 Ah I see. Jan 18 01:03:02 The Android kernel forks off from Linux before all the bugs are ironed out of a release... in some cases during release candidate or earlier Jan 18 01:03:35 Since they only use a subset of the supported features, they only need to fix the few broken things and ship it Jan 18 01:03:52 Then, device manufacturers take the kernel source and put their own patches on Jan 18 01:04:01 And each device team adds their own patches on top of that Jan 18 01:05:35 Would perhaps backporting fixes resolve the issue? Or would I just risk breaking the entire kernel because of the patches? Jan 18 01:05:50 It would, but it's a cumbersome process Jan 18 01:08:02 ubptgbot: Where should I seek for help when porting Sailfish to an android device running 8.x when I encounter errors? Would it be #sailfishos-porters, or here? Jan 18 01:08:13 It'd be in Sailfish's group Jan 18 01:09:05 Alright, thank you so much for your insight. I think I have a better idea about what I have to port GNU/Linux to Android device. It's much appreciated. :) Jan 18 01:09:22 No problem... I should capture this chat and post it somewhere to point people to Jan 18 01:09:31 When they ask "Why isn't this easy?" Jan 18 01:09:52 Because really, it should be as easy as plugging in your USB stick into any x86 computer and getting something Jan 18 01:09:59 But it just isn't Jan 18 01:11:57 I agree, I think it's just challenging to see why it's 'not easy' without the technical background, knowing that Android is not just another distribution, but rather an entirely different OS that happens to be using Linux kernel. Jan 18 01:12:33 the simple answer is, qualcomm and other shit don't want other companies to have a chance and so everything is proprietary Jan 18 01:12:45 The simple answer isn't any fun though. :) Jan 18 01:13:09 It's a why, but not a satisfying why Jan 18 01:13:27 we need amd to come and set the standard, once again Jan 18 01:19:52 @UniversalSuperBox, can you link me, in pm if neccesary, i want to refer back to it myself Jan 18 01:20:10 @Fuseteam, Halium does not have any project for Android 8 or 9 yet Jan 18 01:20:13 whops Jan 18 01:20:19 lol Jan 18 01:20:22 https://t.me/halium/82734 Jan 18 01:20:24 :P Jan 18 01:20:49 lmao that's nice **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 18 02:59:57 2019