**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 16 02:59:57 2007
May 16 03:01:07 <sandman> Anyone alive?
May 16 03:03:40 <zakx> kakos: congrats :)
May 16 03:30:22 <Hegel> hey. my cjk support DL Keeps failing. anyone Know where I can DL the .deb file?
May 16 03:35:01 <derf> From the repository?
May 16 03:35:11 <derf> It's just an http server.
May 16 03:36:59 <sandman> Trouble I'm having is that ext3 seems to corrupt itself while in-use
May 16 03:37:42 <Hegel> oh. Let's See if I can find it
May 16 03:41:39 <Hegel> why don't they use rsynch?
May 16 03:44:53 <derf> Hegel: I think Debian pre-dates rsync.
May 16 04:23:14 <`0660> hegel, rsync for downloading single packages?
May 16 04:26:12 <Hegel> sure...
May 16 04:27:07 <Hegel> I'm Still having trouble getting CJK Support
May 16 04:27:13 <`0660> what advantages it would offer compared to plain http?
May 16 04:27:36 <`0660> i don't see any...
May 16 04:28:04 <Hegel> different Protocol?
May 16 04:29:33 <`0660> is that a good thing? :)
May 16 04:29:57 <Hegel> why does my 13mb dl keep failing?
May 16 04:30:48 <`0660> well, with rsync it would probably be easier for you to complete your download
May 16 04:31:17 <`0660> but it's been a while i have seen a link so unstable it wouldn't be able support the download of a 13mb file
May 16 04:32:20 <Hegel> try installing C JK support for JaPanese
May 16 04:32:20 <`0660> where are you downloading the file from?
May 16 04:32:33 <`0660> give me the url and i'll try to dl it
May 16 04:32:51 <Hegel> http://maemocjk.garage.maemo.org/install.html
May 16 04:35:03 <Hegel> if it doesn't fail to download, it Says the installation file iS corrupt.
May 16 04:35:11 <`0660> http://maemocjk.garage.maemo.org/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/
May 16 04:35:19 <`0660> try to get it from there
May 16 04:35:32 <`0660> http://maemocjk.garage.maemo.org/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/maemo-japanese-support-n800-0.3.2_all.deb
May 16 04:35:40 <`0660> that's the first one and you will probably need more
May 16 04:35:45 <`0660> you have n800 don't you?
May 16 04:35:54 <Hegel> yes
May 16 04:36:52 <derf> `0660: Debian _normally_ can do partial downloads and resume.
May 16 04:37:07 <derf> But the N800 is a little agressive about purging the cache.
May 16 04:37:15 <`0660> :/
May 16 04:37:18 <derf> For some strange reason.
May 16 04:37:51 <`0660> well, it's better that way than the way it works on the desktop :)
May 16 04:39:49 <`0660> Nokia-N800-10:/etc/apt# cat apt.conf.d/00-smallcache
May 16 04:39:50 <`0660> APT { Small-Cache-Limit 1600000 };
May 16 04:40:46 <`0660> hmm
May 16 04:41:03 <`0660> the apt.conf.d/99-docpurge look even more interesting
May 16 04:41:36 <`0660> hmm, no it isn't :)
May 16 04:41:49 <`0660> just: rm -rf /usr/share/doc/* /usr/share/man/* /usr/share/info/*
May 16 04:42:04 <`0660> and a comment: # Real hackers don't read docs.
May 16 04:43:45 <Hegel> were you able to install from that link I sent?
May 16 04:44:09 <`0660> i don't have the guts to install japanese support :)
May 16 04:45:18 <Hegel> C'mon! you know you want to! :)
May 16 04:45:39 <Hegel> anyone?
May 16 05:27:20 <sandman> My flash devices seem to consistently report incorrect space utilization
May 16 05:28:44 <sandman> As well as seemingly having a habit of just ignoring access... for instance, when running wget, the download will just stop
May 16 05:28:53 <sandman> That seemed to only happen with ext3, however.
May 16 05:29:17 <sandman> When I'm running FAT on the flash drive, it still misreports space... I had about 800MB worth of files on there, and then I deleted them.
May 16 05:29:27 <sandman> The SD card appeared empty when looking at its contents
May 16 05:29:50 <sandman> But it said that it was full whenever I tried to move something to it. When I checked to see the free space, it said how much it had _before_ I removed the files!
May 16 05:40:51 <kulve> "flash devices"?
May 16 06:07:48 <sandman> Yeah
May 16 06:07:53 <sandman> SD cards, rather
May 16 06:08:46 <unique311> ?
May 16 06:10:36 <kulve> sandman: how are you using them? In n800 on your PC through the usb mass storage? Linux? Windows?
May 16 07:44:30 <inz> feh -- planet maemo not updating..
May 16 08:00:08 <keesj> inz: the outgoing feed was also broken
May 16 08:00:45 <keesj> I had 700+ mail telling me that the rss was not valid :(
May 16 08:01:01 <inz> :(
May 16 08:01:20 <kulve> maemo.org stuff seems to more often broken than working
May 16 08:47:28 <AD-N770> good morning
May 16 09:29:49 <Copolycube> Good morning.
May 16 09:36:27 <keesj> Hi qube
May 16 11:11:34 <|tbb|> is subversion for bora at least ported?
May 16 12:11:19 <Jari--> hi... I am looking for a stock icon package for Maemo
May 16 12:11:44 <Jari--> a packet that contains all the basic icons used in toolbars of Maemo applications, in gif or png format preferably
May 16 12:14:00 <kulve> I would guess that the default icon set is not freely distributable..
May 16 12:45:00 <greentux> hi
May 16 12:45:13 <greentux> is the wireless card on n800 802.11b or g?
May 16 12:45:16 <greentux> 11 or 54 mbit?
May 16 12:45:21 <kulve> 54 iirc
May 16 12:45:25 <gla55> g iirc
May 16 12:46:19 <greentux> tnx... is there something like "iwconfig" to see such things on the command line?
May 16 12:46:39 <Veggen> grmf.
May 16 12:46:46 <Veggen> I had to talk to a real enduser, today.
May 16 12:46:56 <Veggen> without any warning. Whatsoever.
May 16 12:47:36 <Veggen> Customer service called, said that a customer had some problems. "Ah, I see", I said (tho in Norwegian), and they said "Hold on", and transfered him through.
May 16 12:48:18 <Veggen> (I'm doing Unix stuff for a bank, normally in quite a safe distance from the bank customers ;)
May 16 12:48:48 <kulve> greentux: seems not to be (at least out of the box)
May 16 12:49:26 <greentux> ok.
May 16 13:36:28 <Copolycube> hum... I can't find any info about that...
May 16 13:36:42 <Copolycube> but is OS2007 suitable for ne n770 ?
May 16 13:36:59 <Copolycube> or is it _only_ for the n800 ?
May 16 13:37:11 <kulve> there's a "hacker edition" of os2007 for 770
May 16 13:37:20 <kulve> unofficial
May 16 13:37:22 <Veggen> Only for the N800, but there's a partllu and unofficial backport.
May 16 13:37:27 <gla55> official os2007 is n800 only
May 16 13:37:45 <Copolycube> hum... so it leads to another question.
May 16 13:37:50 <kulve> but it seems that the os2007on770 works at least decently?
May 16 13:38:05 <Copolycube> Since Maemo is the official web site
May 16 13:38:17 <Copolycube> where to find this kind of infos ?
May 16 13:38:24 <Veggen> Maemo is the community web-site.
May 16 13:38:27 <Veggen> I guess.
May 16 13:38:31 <kulve> yeah
May 16 13:38:38 <kulve> with some official sdk related info
May 16 13:38:45 <kulve> i.e. maemo related
May 16 13:38:50 <Veggen> And the community of course supports os2007on770 as well as it can.
May 16 13:39:14 <koen> "as well as it can" == "no access to needed binary nokia crap"
May 16 13:39:19 <kulve> Copolycube: around the maemo.org pages. It's pretty hard to find anything, especially now since all the links in google are broken..
May 16 13:40:46 <Copolycube> ok thx
May 16 13:41:01 <Copolycube> I think I'll stay with the 2006 ;-)
May 16 13:41:10 <kulve> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770
May 16 13:41:29 <Copolycube> I got no pb And I got to develop some bluetooth things with it.
May 16 13:44:12 <Copolycube> and what is the difference between mistral and gregale ?
May 16 13:44:28 <kulve> mistral is old
May 16 13:44:36 <Copolycube> are they "compatible" in any way ? (software packages)
May 16 13:44:40 <bedboi> hi there.
May 16 13:44:48 <bedboi> is there any way to get alarmd sources?
May 16 13:45:14 <kulve> Copolycube: people should use gregale for developing, I guess
May 16 13:46:21 <Copolycube> kulve, : in the time (past--> now) it's
May 16 13:46:28 <Copolycube> bora > mistral > gregale
May 16 13:46:30 <Copolycube> ?
May 16 13:47:32 <muebelacker> bedboi: what do you man?
May 16 13:47:33 <kulve> bora is for n800, mistral and gragale is for 770
May 16 13:47:48 <kulve> and gregale is newer than mistral
May 16 13:47:59 <muebelacker> bedboi: mean
May 16 13:51:10 <bedboi> muebelacker: i mean where to get the sources of alarmd :)
May 16 13:51:36 <bedboi> i had 0.4 version, but i can't find it anymore
May 16 13:55:19 <X-Fade> bedboi: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/alarmd/ Although they didn't open websvn..
May 16 13:58:24 <etrunko> apt-get source?
May 16 13:59:37 <kulve> Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org bora/free alarmd 0.4.3 (dsc) [474B]
May 16 13:59:37 <kulve> Get:2 http://repository.maemo.org bora/free alarmd 0.4.3 (tar) [98.0kB]
May 16 14:03:28 <inz> bedboi, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/source/
May 16 14:03:42 <bedboi> thank you very much
May 16 14:04:27 <inz> bedboi, seems to have both 0.4.0 and 0.4.3
May 16 14:32:40 <b0unc3> hello
May 16 14:53:37 <trevarthan> In the Filemanager, there is a Documents folder. It doesn't seem to exist in xterm under my home dir. What's the path?
May 16 14:56:10 <trevarthan> Nm. .documents
May 16 15:02:56 <lodecesa> hi at all
May 16 15:03:29 <lodecesa> obviously I'm here for a problem with maemo
May 16 15:04:11 <lodecesa> i'm trying the tutorial example on the maemo.org site
May 16 15:04:33 <lodecesa> when i try to compile i receive this:
May 16 15:04:52 <lodecesa> [sbox-SDK_X86: ~] > gcc -o maemo_hello maemo_hello.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-libs` -ansi -Wall `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-libs`maemo_hello.c: In function `main':maemo_hello.c:6: error: `HildonProgram' undeclared (first use in this function)maemo_hello.c:6: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only oncemaemo_hello.c:6: error: for each function it appears in.)maemo_hello.c:6: error: `prog
May 16 15:05:24 <lodecesa> what´s appening?
May 16 15:55:05 <Copolycube> bye
May 16 16:25:16 <trevarthan> Is there any way to copy text from the web browser? I try dragging the pen, but it just scrolls the window.
May 16 16:25:41 <gla55> painting the text, iirc?
May 16 16:25:44 <gla55> then holding down
May 16 16:25:52 <mgedmin> if you double-click and start dragging with the second click, you can (sometimes) select text
May 16 16:26:14 <mgedmin> it feels like an unintended feature (aka bug)
May 16 16:27:33 <trevarthan> mgeadmin: thanks. That worked.
May 16 16:44:13 <sandman> How much power does bluetooth require? As much or more than wifi?
May 16 16:44:34 <keesj> i would guess less
May 16 16:44:37 <mgedmin> less
May 16 16:44:50 <mgedmin> about the same when transmitting data, but less when idle
May 16 16:45:05 <mgedmin> source: some email on one of the maemo mailing lists
May 16 16:46:18 <keesj> I have the feeling that my n800 used keep active when i was typing on my bt keyboard. but now it does not work
May 16 16:50:07 <kulve> sandman: I have understood that bluetooth takes much less that wlan. But if the mailing list says something different, they maybe you should believe it..
May 16 17:22:53 <LeandroAl> hi.. I'm trying to create an link application on the maemo website downloads. The manual (http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/developer-manual.html) tell me to login, click on the application link and then, in the context menu, Page, Create Maemo Application. But I can't see the link "Application". Is there a special trick?
May 16 17:28:31 <kulve> click a category in the "application cloud"
May 16 17:29:08 <kulve> i.e. "downloads" and then the category you want your app
May 16 17:29:25 <kulve> the docs are wrong on that point. I spent quite a while figuring it out..
May 16 17:41:02 <MoRpHeUz> hhmmm...maemo stores wireless's passwords in plain text =(
May 16 17:41:06 <MoRpHeUz> as well gizmo..
May 16 17:42:33 <MoRpHeUz> if someone steal your device, maybe some of your networks can be compromised...(dont know other kind of passwds that are stored in plain text)
May 16 17:43:58 <`0660> isn't it the default in firefox to save passwords in plain text?
May 16 17:48:06 <MoRpHeUz> `0660: yeah...
May 16 17:59:45 <rambokid> tigert?
May 16 18:14:06 <tigert> yes?
May 16 18:27:12 <GuySoft> hi all, i have a quiestion: does anyone here have expriance with astonomomical applications on the maemo?
May 16 18:34:23 <GuySoft> anobody here at all?
May 16 18:38:15 <X-Fade> GuySoft: Maybe this is something you like? https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-stars/
May 16 18:39:42 <GuySoft> X-Fade: i saw that one on the net, but its a little basic, there are palmos applications with more functionality. would kstars load on maemo, ofr example?
May 16 18:39:54 <GuySoft> i know its a lot to ask :">
May 16 18:40:07 <X-Fade> No, you would have to port it to GTK first ;)
May 16 18:40:16 <GuySoft> no qt applications?
May 16 18:40:44 <X-Fade> Not if you port the complete qt stack to maemo first ;)
May 16 18:41:36 <X-Fade> The devices have limited memory, using GTK and qt at the same time will not leave you much to run an application.
May 16 18:42:09 <bipolar> I'm waiting for a good kde port for the n800. Thats the best option for me
May 16 18:42:38 <X-Fade> bipolar: Well I think qt is doable. Don't count on KDE..
May 16 18:42:40 <GuySoft> say then, what about firefox? does that run?
May 16 18:42:53 <X-Fade> GuySoft: No, but minimo does..
May 16 18:43:09 <bipolar> X-Fade: it's already been done, just not packaged
May 16 18:43:48 <X-Fade> bipolar: Sure, but you would have to do more. Make textinput work, connectivity etc etc..
May 16 18:44:00 <X-Fade> That is not something you do in a spare weekend.
May 16 18:44:41 <X-Fade> Nokia has been working on this for about 3 years now. And still they need to do a lot.
May 16 18:44:52 <bipolar> True. But kde abstracts enough out that it it shouldn't be a terible job.
May 16 18:45:18 <X-Fade> Hehe, you are very optimistic.
May 16 18:45:25 <bipolar> of cource.
May 16 18:45:26 <bipolar> :)
May 16 18:47:52 <X-Fade> I think porting a few applications from qt to gtk is much less work. It depends on which programs you want.
May 16 18:48:39 <GuySoft> what about emulation palmos applicationS?
May 16 18:49:14 <GuySoft> there are astronomical apps for palmos
May 16 18:49:50 <X-Fade> Ofcourse there is a way around all this. Use a vnc-server to run other applications.
May 16 18:50:10 <X-Fade> But that requires some knowlegde..
May 16 18:50:35 <GuySoft> X-Fade: in the middle of the deasert there is no wifi :S
May 16 18:50:36 <GuySoft> only sand...
May 16 18:51:42 <X-Fade> GuySoft: No need..
May 16 18:51:45 <X-Fade> http://maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2007-February/008480.html
May 16 18:51:50 <X-Fade> Search for kstars :)
May 16 18:51:59 <X-Fade> It seems they did run it..
May 16 18:53:00 <GuySoft> i am not thinking of getting a nokia n800 or a sharp zaurus.. and i am trying to compare the software
May 16 18:55:57 <||cw> the biggest difference is that Sharp doens't release updates, community support only
May 16 18:57:01 <unique311> does the n800 have SSE3?
May 16 18:57:25 <GuySoft> ||cw: how is the support?
May 16 18:57:28 <kulve> sse3?
May 16 18:57:36 <X-Fade> lol :)
May 16 18:58:05 <X-Fade> unique311: No it does not. It is an ARM processor.
May 16 18:58:11 <kulve> if you are talking about the instruction set, I think /proc/cpuinfo tells most of them
May 16 18:59:08 <X-Fade> Processor       : Some Random V6 Processor rev 2 (v6l)
May 16 18:59:08 <X-Fade> BogoMIPS        : 320.37
May 16 18:59:08 <X-Fade> Features        : swp half thumb fastmult vfp edsp java
May 16 18:59:32 <kulve> X-Fade: well, xscales have iwmmx, so maybe sse3 wouldn't be totally impossible :)
May 16 18:59:43 <kulve> on some arm prosessor, I mean
May 16 18:59:57 <X-Fade> kulve: Sure, if you pay Intel enough.
May 16 19:00:13 <kulve> intel makes (made?) arm prosessors too..
May 16 19:00:30 <unique311> permission denied for cpuinfo
May 16 19:00:32 <unique311> wtf...
May 16 19:00:37 <kulve> unique311: cat
May 16 19:00:38 <unique311> as sudo gainroot also
May 16 19:00:44 <kulve> normal user is fine
May 16 19:00:46 <dragorn> they do, but arm-foo doens't usually have intel instructions, they keep those for the xscale
May 16 19:00:49 <kulve> works in all linuxes
May 16 19:01:21 <GuySoft> oh, and can i connect a keyboard or mouse from the usb host?
May 16 19:01:42 <X-Fade> GuySoft: That support is experimental, but it seems to work..
May 16 19:02:04 <unique311> k, just upgraded my hackintosh to 10.4.9
May 16 19:02:14 <unique311> and wanted it to go on my n800 also..
May 16 19:02:25 <unique311> but i doubt that..
May 16 19:02:50 <unique311> maybe when the iphone comes out they will emulate that quickly....and someone can port the danm thing to maemo
May 16 19:03:03 <||cw> GuySoft: well, Nokia has released 2 updates to the OS and applications since the n800 was released.
May 16 19:03:18 <||cw> feature updates, not just bug/security fixes
May 16 19:03:31 <unique311> 2 updates?
May 16 19:04:05 <unique311> don't remember updating twice..
May 16 19:04:13 <kulve> me neither..
May 16 19:04:22 <unique311> 1 update yeah
May 16 19:04:23 <dragorn> yeah there were 2
May 16 19:04:38 <dragorn> one around xmas if I recall, one in march
May 16 19:04:51 <unique311> oh
May 16 19:05:02 <unique311> i got my n800 in march or april
May 16 19:05:04 <unique311> forgot..
May 16 19:05:05 <GuySoft> X-Fade: how experemantal, can you type?
May 16 19:05:11 <kulve> n800 wasn't out until this year
May 16 19:05:24 <unique311> lol
May 16 19:05:29 <GuySoft> are there any other linuxOS based PDAs apart form nokia and sharp?
May 16 19:05:39 <dragorn> kulve: Well then soon after.  There WAS an update to what it shipped with, before the big update in march
May 16 19:05:47 <dragorn> because I brought it home from the store and slapped the new os on it
May 16 19:06:05 <dragorn> GuySoft: usb host on the 800 is mighty iffy afaik, and requires a custom kernel.  It's not in mainline yet.
May 16 19:06:23 <kulve> dragorn: maybe your device didn't have the first official release. I think I saw people posting comments that their device had old versiont..
May 16 19:06:28 <unique311> so when is this intel maemo bite off suppose to hit the shelfs...
May 16 19:06:44 <dragorn> GuySoft: And requires some cable hacking and often power injection.  The 770 usb host is stable, but definitely requires a cable+power inject, and the 770 is slower
May 16 19:07:20 <GuySoft> dragorn: what about ir keyboards?
May 16 19:08:13 <dragorn> GuySoft: great, if there was an IR port on the nokia :P
May 16 19:08:27 <GuySoft> ah, there isnt?!
May 16 19:08:41 <GuySoft> i thaught it had, its kinda basic for PDAs, isnt it?
May 16 19:08:53 <dragorn> it's got bluetooth and 802.11
May 16 19:10:25 <dragorn> as far as other devices running linux - i dunno, my nintendo ds does, but I don't think I'd want to use it for prolonged periods of time :P
May 16 19:10:57 <X-Fade> GuySoft: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/21371
May 16 19:13:59 <dragorn> has anyone done any dev which would lead to benchmarks of cairo performance on the 800?
May 16 19:14:47 <X-Fade> dragorn: Cairo 1.4.6 just landed in Sardine.
May 16 19:15:35 <dragorn> X-Fade: yeah, any performance metrics?  I know I'm going to have to rewrite some of my app since it's obnoxious even on an overpowred laptop (complex cached patterns make it sad)
May 16 19:16:26 <X-Fade> dragorn: Well, you'd have to benchmark it I guess.
May 16 19:16:51 <X-Fade> Latest performance benchmarks I can find are from Jan 2007.
May 16 19:16:57 <X-Fade> Version 1.3.10..
May 16 19:17:12 <X-Fade> dragorn: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/42-Cairo-performance-on-small-devices.html
May 16 19:22:37 <k-s[WORK]> damn...
May 16 19:22:47 <k-s[WORK]> anyone had run Oprofile on n800 with success?
May 16 19:22:52 <k-s[WORK]> I get /usr/bin/opcontrol: /usr/bin/opcontrol: 15: cannot open 2: No such file
May 16 19:22:59 <k-s[WORK]> when trying to set --separate=lib
May 16 19:23:04 <k-s[WORK]> or anything else
May 16 19:33:44 <GuySoft> isnt the usb host a key feature there? i meen it should let you connect anything that runs on linux to the pda, no?
May 16 19:34:04 <GuySoft> isnt that something well needed?
May 16 19:34:20 <GuySoft> i meen why but flash memory if you can use a usb drive that you have around?
May 16 19:34:27 <X-Fade> GuySoft: That is why some people are working on it ;)
May 16 19:34:51 <X-Fade> GuySoft: Flash memory is dirt cheap these days..
May 16 19:35:04 <X-Fade> Well, not the 16G ones..
May 16 19:35:07 <GuySoft> is it hard to make a custom kernel there? or is it as simple as it is in normal debian?
May 16 19:35:17 <k-s[WORK]> GuySoft: almost as simple
May 16 19:35:27 <X-Fade> GuySoft: That is the same. You can just compile it and flash it to the device..
May 16 19:35:40 <k-s[WORK]> GuySoft: just need to use flasher to install it, since it doesn't use grub or any other standard bootloader, but "nolo"
May 16 19:35:41 <GuySoft> X-Fade: depends where you live.. i am in a place where palm zire is new..
May 16 19:35:45 <X-Fade> GuySoft: You can even test a kernel without making it permanent..
May 16 19:36:04 <GuySoft> nolo?
May 16 19:36:16 <GuySoft> X-Fade: didnt get you there, whats nolo
May 16 19:36:32 <X-Fade> It is the bootloader..
May 16 19:36:49 <X-Fade> Nokia's own bootloader.
May 16 19:36:56 <GuySoft> is it flexable?
May 16 19:37:10 <X-Fade> You don't need to know anything about it..
May 16 19:37:11 <GuySoft> for compastison, i never got macs booting linux..
May 16 19:37:21 <GuySoft> X-Fade: fair inuf
May 16 19:37:22 * TimRiker tried to bend it, but the flash chip would probably break.
May 16 19:37:45 <X-Fade> Just use the flasher to flash the kernel and instruct the device to boot it. Also with the flasher..
May 16 19:38:08 <GuySoft> X-Fade: well ill have to see it if i get it
May 16 19:38:20 * TimRiker tried to "just use flasher" but failed. as flasher does not work on debian unstable with 2.6.20
May 16 19:38:55 <X-Fade> GuySoft: http://test.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_use_flasher_rootfs_bora.html
May 16 19:38:58 <GuySoft> i am on 2.6.20 here, were you trying to load 2.6.20, or run the flasher on that system
May 16 19:39:13 <TimRiker> would be nice if the bootloader was a usb-serial device so the standard usbserial module would get you console access to the bootloader.
May 16 19:39:22 <X-Fade> TimRiker: Probably you need to fix some usb settings..
May 16 19:39:27 <X-Fade> udev and all.
May 16 19:39:47 <TimRiker> GuySoft: running the debian 2.6.20 kernel as root with and without the patch on flashtool. neither worked.
May 16 19:39:57 <TimRiker> got udev. and usbfs mounted.
May 16 19:40:20 <TimRiker> flasher sees a new device being added (from watching with strace) but does not see it as a n800.
May 16 19:40:27 <X-Fade> TimRiker: You did mount usbfs like: mount -t usbfs usbfs /proc/bus/usb
May 16 19:40:28 <X-Fade> ?
May 16 19:40:45 <TimRiker> X-Fade: debian mounts usbfs by default already.
May 16 19:41:01 <TimRiker> procbususb on /proc/bus/usb type usbfs (rw)
May 16 19:41:09 <X-Fade> TimRiker: And did you try patching the flasher?
May 16 19:41:11 <TimRiker> (that's from mount output)
May 16 19:41:25 <TimRiker> as I mentioned already, yes. I tried with and without the patch.
May 16 19:41:33 <X-Fade> Hmm weird..
May 16 19:42:09 <X-Fade> I don't suppose you posted a bug to bugzilla already? :)
May 16 19:42:22 <TimRiker> had to reboot into that Other OS and reflash from there.
May 16 19:42:57 <TimRiker> X-Fade: nope. but I'm happy to. /me looks for bugzilla
May 16 19:43:37 <TimRiker> http://bugzilla.maemo.org/ is not exactly the interface I was expecting.
May 16 19:43:47 <X-Fade> It at least worked for somebody with Debian 4.0..
May 16 19:44:29 <X-Fade> TimRiker: https://bugs.maemo.org/
May 16 19:45:02 <TimRiker> surely bugzilla should point there, and not at a page with release info, no?
May 16 19:46:29 * TimRiker waits for his login info..
May 16 19:46:47 <TimRiker> X-Fade: running what kernel?
May 16 19:47:35 <X-Fade> It doesn't say..
May 16 19:49:59 <GuySoft> X-Fade: the nokia doesnt have an irda port? it seems to have it written on the net
May 16 19:50:29 <X-Fade> GuySoft: No it doesn't have one.
May 16 20:02:52 <TimRiker> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1448
May 16 20:03:25 * TimRiker longs for a nokia u-boot port that has usbserial support and flash from mmc/tftp support.
May 16 20:04:00 <X-Fade> TimRiker: Well you can flash from the device :)
May 16 20:04:22 <TimRiker> any idea why the bootloader is a custom usb device when it does not have to be? why not use a standard bootloader with usbserial support?
May 16 20:04:43 <TimRiker> X-Fade: not if the rootfs won't boot you can't.
May 16 20:05:50 <X-Fade> TimRiker: I dual boot from mmc ;)
May 16 20:06:00 <TimRiker> and while I'm at it, the pivot_root scripts are messed. they leave the old initrd mounted, as well as another proc, sys, and tmp. wasted memory there.
May 16 20:06:51 <TimRiker> X-Fade: hmm. I suppose that works as long as the (missnamed) initrd partition (gag) is not corrupt.
May 16 20:07:12 <X-Fade> TimRiker: Yeah, you need to steer clear of that one..
May 16 20:07:31 <TimRiker> I've not tried that yet. Does pivot_root to an mmc still leave all the mess behind instead of cleaning it up?
May 16 20:08:26 <X-Fade> My mmc image is just a plain copy of the internal one.. So I guess there's nothing different..
May 16 20:08:33 <TimRiker> what happens if you open the mmc door? (either back door or flip down on the "external")
May 16 20:09:11 <TimRiker> and how to you choose mmc boot or internal boot?
May 16 20:09:59 <X-Fade> TimRiker: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_Boot_From_MMC_card
May 16 20:10:07 <TimRiker> just looks for /sbin/init on the device?
May 16 20:10:49 <X-Fade> chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mmc2
May 16 20:11:07 <X-Fade> or mmc1..
May 16 20:12:59 <TimRiker> hmm. what happens if you just take out the card on boot? does it switch to the internal?
May 16 20:13:29 <maddler> hello
May 16 20:13:34 <X-Fade> TimRiker: Horribly crash?
May 16 20:14:09 <TimRiker> and why ext2? does it not include ext3 support? running non-journaled on a battery powered device does not sound like a Good Thing to me.
May 16 20:14:34 <X-Fade> Ext3 is also supported.
May 16 20:14:53 <TimRiker> X-Fade: from grokking the script it looks like it at least tries to skip the mmc if there is no /sbin/init
May 16 20:15:03 <X-Fade> But the journal can wear out certain blocks on the card.
May 16 20:15:09 <TimRiker> not so.
May 16 20:15:16 <X-Fade> If wearleveling is busted..
May 16 20:15:42 <TimRiker> I don't know any current mmc cards that have busted wearleveling.
May 16 20:16:05 <TimRiker> it will wear your card out "sooner" than ext2. but only about twice as fast.
May 16 20:16:08 <florian> re
May 16 20:16:42 <TimRiker> the much more important issue is to turn off atimes. atimes will wear out your card much much faster.
May 16 20:16:55 <||cw> journal doens't wear out certain blocks, it wears out all of them
May 16 20:17:04 * TimRiker nods at ||cw 
May 16 20:17:31 <TimRiker> again, ext3 would reduce the life by about half.
May 16 20:18:02 <X-Fade> Yeah, but still the device will probably die long before you killed all blocks on your card.
May 16 20:18:27 <||cw> depends on the size of the card and how full it is
May 16 20:18:56 <TimRiker> you don't have to kill "all blocks" you just need to kill one more than the card has spare. then the whole card goes dead. (at least on all major brands we tested).
May 16 20:19:14 <TimRiker> but this takes a _long_ time.
May 16 20:19:20 <X-Fade> Doesn't the leveler move used blocks also?
May 16 20:19:27 <TimRiker> X-Fade: yes.
May 16 20:20:08 <TimRiker> the internal wear leveling has a number of "spare" blocks that get used when an error is detected in a used block.
May 16 20:20:28 <TimRiker> once the list of spares hits 0, the card is ready to die.
May 16 20:21:02 <TimRiker> wonderful sd/mmc interface provides no api to query the size of the spare pool.
May 16 20:21:04 <X-Fade> root on mmc is faster also in combination with the patches..
May 16 20:21:29 <TimRiker> I can believe that. no compression on default ext2/3
May 16 20:21:57 <Tybor> I'm thinking about using an n800 to input text (source code) with stylus and online keyboard to avoid RSI (repetitive stress injuries)... taking for granted that it can be slower (50-100% slower) would it help avoid rsi?
May 16 20:22:17 <TimRiker> course it depends on what you are doing. if you're reading a very large text file, I'll bet it's slower. :)
May 16 20:22:22 <X-Fade> TimRiker: There are kernel patches to boost mmc performance. They help a lot..
May 16 20:22:58 <Mithrandir> Tybor: I doubt it'd be a good way to avoid RSI.  I'd rather recommend taking breaks fairly often, to stretch, avoid using the mouse, etc.
May 16 20:23:01 <TimRiker> X-Fade: cool. I've not gotten into the kernel yet. do we know if the 4 wire interface is actually used?
May 16 20:23:44 <Tybor> Mithrandir: so mouse is the main criminal here?
May 16 20:23:57 <TimRiker> I'd like to see a way to use a bluetooth laptop as a bluetooth keyboard on the n800.
May 16 20:24:13 <X-Fade> TimRiker: http://intr.overt.org/n800-sdhc-kernel/
May 16 20:24:33 <Mithrandir> Tybor: the usual suspect is doing small movements with the mouse, yes.  Some people don't handle keyboards well too, but that's less common.
May 16 20:25:53 <X-Fade> TimRiker: highspeed patch uses MMC_CAP_4_BIT_DATA;
May 16 20:28:03 <TimRiker> X-Fade: yep, just noticed that. nice.
May 16 20:28:49 <X-Fade> In combination with multiblock writes.. That speeds it up nicely..
May 16 20:28:58 <TimRiker> any idea if any TI OMAP folks have n800's and are looking at any of this work? I'll fire off some emails on this to folks I know. (/me used to be tim@ti.com but is no longer)
May 16 20:29:33 <X-Fade> TimRiker: All these patches are already in mainline kernel..
May 16 20:29:47 <TimRiker> ah. even better.
May 16 20:30:17 <TimRiker> there are still places in the UI that insist on scanning the card for files of type x. This is _always_ a bad idea.
May 16 20:30:23 <X-Fade> You'd better pester them about the MBX and IVA :)
May 16 20:30:48 <|tbb|> pfff,the battery indicator sucks a lot, 2min before there where 2bars now it says battery is running out
May 16 20:31:05 <TimRiker> heh. I gotta dig into things first before I'll be comfortable pestering. :)
May 16 20:31:26 * TimRiker heads to a meeting.
May 16 20:31:31 <X-Fade> We want our openvg acceleration :)
May 16 20:31:55 <X-Fade> Although Compositing already seems to work for simple things..
May 16 20:35:19 <GuySoft> X-Fade: is there a way to get an irda port running on an n800? like with a serial port and lirc?
May 16 20:37:24 <X-Fade> GuySoft: Not without a soldering gun I guess.
May 16 20:38:25 <X-Fade> Somebody replaced the fm-radio chip with a gps chip. So, who knows :)
May 16 20:39:12 <|tbb|> xfading, where did u hear that?
May 16 20:40:19 <X-Fade> |tbb|: I'm trying to find that back.
May 16 20:43:21 <GuySoft> X-Fade: i can solder, if its really simple.. i am actually connected now with a cantenna i built
May 16 20:44:03 <dragorn> heh, soldering/desoldering PCBs is somewhat more difficult
May 16 20:44:14 <X-Fade> Hmmm I can't find back that posting..
May 16 20:44:39 <X-Fade> It was a guy that used the io ports connected to the fm chip for a gps chip..
May 16 20:44:40 <TimRiker> X-Fade: do you get a menu of boot choices? and how do you input your choice? arrows? the script seems to use "read" which implies stdin, which I would not think there would be any keyboard at that stage of the boot?
May 16 20:44:50 <TimRiker> guess I'll have to try it and see.
May 16 20:44:59 <X-Fade> TimRiker: The arrow keys..
May 16 20:45:04 <X-Fade> If the mode == ask
May 16 20:45:46 <dragorn> X-Fade: makes sense, if you have any sort of gpio at a voltage/sample rate you can do serial with.  nice hack.
May 16 20:45:48 <Tybor> anyone tried dasher in maemo?ù
May 16 20:46:02 <|tbb|> strange
May 16 20:46:02 <TimRiker> hmm. I must be looking at the wrong script. I was looking at /mnt/initfs/linuxrc
May 16 20:46:39 <TimRiker> Guard][an: using usb host mode, you could add a usb irda dongle. I don't know if usb-host is available on the n800 yet.
May 16 20:46:57 <X-Fade> TimRiker: Experimental patches are available.
May 16 20:47:21 * TimRiker whacks tab completion. that was meant for GuySoft 
May 16 20:47:29 <X-Fade> It has a USB OTG chip too..
May 16 20:47:47 <X-Fade> So it should be able to provide some power too
May 16 20:48:00 <GuySoft> TimRiker: however a usb dongle wont run cool stuff like lirc
May 16 20:48:08 <TimRiker> X-Fade: sure would be nice to get a real OTG port and drivers instead of a cpu that has it, but the wrong port and drivers on the device.
May 16 20:48:12 <GuySoft> TimRiker: ah! the irony!
May 16 20:48:51 <X-Fade> TimRiker: It has a separate OTG chip that is connected?
May 16 20:48:53 <GuySoft> why anyting that you want to plug to those PDAs resorts to painful softare and harware complication?
May 16 20:48:54 * TimRiker morns the omap device he built at ti, that ti killed. it had both a host and a client port.
May 16 20:49:41 <TimRiker> X-Fade: the cpu has OTG support, but not all the voltage driver support. so there is a bit of support logic needed. the 770 didn't have it, and I expect the 800 does not either.
May 16 20:50:00 <dragorn> GuySoft: because you insist on plugging things into it like IR that it doesn't have.  I'll grant you host mode is annoying, but there are plenty of bluetooth keyboards available.
May 16 20:50:06 <X-Fade> TimRiker: http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~james.smith/n800_no_shields_300_dpi.jpg
May 16 20:51:34 <GuySoft> dragorn: yes, but they cost :( , is bluetooth less of a pain in the neck?
May 16 20:52:00 <dragorn> GuySoft: Than trying to solder stuff onto the PCB just to run a keyboard?  Yeah, i'd say so.
May 16 20:52:03 <X-Fade> This one is even betterL http://www.ee.nmt.edu/~james.smith/n800_no_shields_1200_dpi.jpg
May 16 20:52:49 <GuySoft> dragorn: soldering is easy, on to a pcb is the harder part
May 16 20:53:16 <X-Fade> TimRiker: There is this: tps65030 USB-OTG Power Manager 5v 100mA.
May 16 20:53:18 <dragorn> and the project is kind of moot without the "on to a pcb" component
May 16 20:54:11 <GuySoft> dragorn: i really dont mind the cable, and bluetooth meends you need to much about with batteries, and other stuff
May 16 20:54:50 <TimRiker> X-Fade: nice images. shows the lame springless external sd slot really well.
May 16 20:55:29 <dragorn> GuySoft: And you think powering an IR circuit and USB you don't?  Hah.
May 16 20:56:24 <TimRiker> X-Fade: heh. those images show small dimples in the "extra" connecter next to the battery. looks like they have been used, or at least tried.
May 16 20:56:57 <X-Fade> TimRiker: I haven't used mine, and the are also there..
May 16 20:57:49 <X-Fade> TimRiker: I think Nokia uses them in the factory too.
May 16 20:58:41 <TimRiker> dunno.
May 16 20:58:51 <X-Fade> Check yours :)
May 16 21:00:23 <X-Fade> Hmm if you look closely at the picture, a lot of test points are also dented..
May 16 22:00:13 <GuySoft> um, does anyone know of an irc channel of the openzaurus/embeded linux community?
May 16 22:44:40 <GuySoft> is there no other linux pda comunity?
May 16 22:46:02 <gla55> zaurus perhaps
May 16 23:01:28 <Yaco2> Hi!
May 16 23:01:57 <Yaco2> im trying to run Gameboy Advance roms in my Nokia 770
May 16 23:02:09 <Yaco2> dows anybody have experience in this issue?
May 16 23:12:48 <Yaco2> hello!
May 16 23:19:46 <maddler> Yaco2: hello...
May 16 23:21:42 <Yaco2> hi!
May 16 23:21:51 <Yaco2> maddler, im trying to run Gameboy Advance roms in my Nokia 77
May 16 23:21:57 <Yaco2>  have experience in this issue
May 16 23:21:58 <Yaco2> ?
May 16 23:30:43 <trevarthan> Is there a gui compression tool for maemo?
May 16 23:32:01 <trevarthan> Or... Decompression at least?
May 16 23:48:08 <Yaco2> unzip
May 16 23:50:20 <neostrider> hello folks
May 16 23:53:22 <Yaco2> hello neostrider
May 16 23:53:27 <trevarthan> Yavo2: need bzip2
May 16 23:53:43 <Yaco2> oh, maybe is a dependece of mc
May 16 23:54:05 <neostrider> whats going on?
May 16 23:54:26 <Yaco2> im experimenting with console emulators
May 16 23:54:43 <Yaco2> VBA is just veeeeeeeeeeery slow on 770
May 16 23:54:47 <neostrider> VBA?
May 16 23:55:07 <Yaco2> Visual Boy Advance = GameBoy Advance Emulator
May 17 00:03:32 <neostrider> i thought so...
May 17 00:03:40 <unique311> neo, tried out gimp
May 17 00:03:53 <unique311> i couldn't get it to work..and to think i compiled the danm thing..
May 17 00:04:21 <neostrider> i couldnt test it yet
May 17 00:04:25 <neostrider> solving a memory leak on my code
May 17 00:05:39 <unique311> k
May 17 00:05:54 <unique311> im about to rock some classic genesis games...
May 17 00:06:00 <neostrider> what?!?
May 17 00:06:05 <neostrider> which?
May 17 00:06:34 <unique311> sonic the hedgehog..
May 17 00:06:42 <unique311> i updated my hackintosh today..
May 17 00:06:59 <unique311> and to my amazing alot of stuff was fixed with this upgrade...
May 17 00:07:11 <unique311> so going to see how well emulators do on it
May 17 00:07:41 <unique311> hackintosh= regular x86 pc running osx for intelmacs..
May 17 00:09:04 <neostrider> pirated?
May 17 00:09:48 <unique311> no
May 17 00:09:54 <unique311> dont say that word..
May 17 00:09:57 <unique311> so harsh...
May 17 00:10:28 <unique311> just borrowed for testing
May 17 00:10:30 <unique311> heh
May 17 00:10:36 <neostrider> "unauthorized"?
May 17 00:10:40 <neostrider> hahaha
May 17 00:10:42 <neostrider> ok ok
May 17 00:10:52 <unique311> don't ay that word either
May 17 00:11:04 <unique311> unknowing by apple....
May 17 00:11:31 <neostrider> nice hehehe
May 17 00:11:34 <neostrider> runs ok?
May 17 00:15:10 <unique311> runs stable
May 17 00:15:23 <unique311> besides my res being 1024x768
May 17 00:15:26 <unique311> i don't mind..
May 17 00:15:48 <unique311> been running osx86 for a year now i think....
May 17 00:16:01 <unique311> 10.4.3 to 10.4.9
May 17 00:18:09 <neostrider> cool
May 17 00:18:18 <neostrider> and how about its limited GUI?
May 17 00:18:27 <neostrider> how did you overcame that serious glitch?
May 17 00:18:54 <unique311> its not limited...
May 17 00:19:23 <unique311> on my desktop i do 1500x1400...which is coold for apps like photoshop and illustrator..
May 17 00:19:32 <unique311> 1024x768 is not bad at all..
May 17 00:19:52 <unique311> most apps that is a minimum
May 17 00:20:47 <neostrider> no no...you didnt get it
May 17 00:20:53 <neostrider> i mean its usability
May 17 00:20:55 <unique311> limited gui
May 17 00:21:19 <neostrider> yeah...
May 17 00:21:19 <unique311> usability is awesome..i want a mac in my life..but too cheap to get one..
May 17 00:21:31 <neostrider> I want a mac running gnome...
May 17 00:21:33 <neostrider> hahahha
May 17 00:21:34 <neostrider> =-P
May 17 00:21:40 <neostrider> im leaving, man
May 17 00:21:40 <unique311> well thats easy..
May 17 00:21:48 <neostrider> talk to you later =-)
May 17 00:21:51 <unique311> k
May 17 00:21:52 <unique311> lates
May 17 00:40:23 <trevarthan> How do I use the gnome-vfs plugin for sftp/smb?
May 17 00:46:15 <GuySoft> hi, um, does the nokia n800 have handwriting recongnision?
May 17 00:46:55 <trevarthan> Do i have to install gpe after the vfs? It says sftp:// is an invalid protocol.
May 17 00:47:21 <trevarthan> GuySoft: yeah, but very basic.
May 17 00:48:12 <trevarthan> One char at a time.
May 17 00:48:14 <GuySoft> what is basic about it? is it like the palm's grafiti 1?
May 17 00:49:12 <trevarthan> You can't get ahead of it.
May 17 00:50:28 <GuySoft> what do you meen 'ahead'?
May 17 00:51:42 <trevarthan> One char at a time. Try to go faster than it recognizes and it'll try to merge two chars.
May 17 00:52:03 <GuySoft> shouldent eatch char be one kestroke?
May 17 00:52:17 <trevarthan> Finger keyboard and pen are faster.
May 17 00:52:49 <GuySoft> so its worse than the old palmOS devices..
May 17 00:53:30 <trevarthan> Uh.... Maybe that's my prob. I assumed it was a multi stroke recognizer.
May 17 00:54:10 <trevarthan> I'll have to do the tutorial and find out.
May 17 00:54:59 <GuySoft> well you need to see the ABC style of the device.. in palmOS you had one stroke per char, exept X.. i find it pretty fast
May 17 00:58:20 <trevarthan> Tutorial says it's mulristroke. Just npt the best. Single stroke works better. Thumb keyboard is still faster, trust me.
May 17 00:59:14 <trevarthan> Typing with thumbs now. Sometimes I miss. Thats wwhy my spelling is bad.
May 17 01:03:54 <GuySoft> trevarthan: your on your nokia now?
May 17 01:13:08 <trevarthan> Yeah
May 17 01:13:24 <trevarthan> Brb
May 17 01:19:44 <GuySoft> gtg
May 17 01:20:04 <GuySoft> if he comes back looking for me, tell him ill seem him some other time, and thanks!
May 17 01:27:32 <ryanfaerman> Does everyone here have a nokia internet tablet?
May 17 01:32:49 <robtaylor> ryanfaerman: most everyone, i expect
May 17 01:33:01 <ryanfaerman> I am debating on purchasing the n800
May 17 01:33:26 <ryanfaerman> I have a 3g phone, for when wifi is not available, but wondering how much most people actually use it
May 17 01:33:41 <ryanfaerman> Of course, you all probably use it alot, since you are part of the OS community.
May 17 01:34:21 <robtaylor> ryanfaerman: well,i pretty much only code for it, i'm not a huge user as i don't like carrying it round with me
May 17 01:35:33 <ryanfaerman> how come?
May 17 01:37:25 <robtaylor> ryanfaerman: mainly cos i don'twant to loose it/have it stolen, itd impact my work
May 17 01:37:40 <ryanfaerman> ah, gotcha.
May 17 01:38:15 <ryanfaerman> so you got a device, and program for a device,that you don't use very much because you don't want to slow down your work on it?
May 17 01:38:17 <ryanfaerman> :P
May 17 01:39:07 <ryanfaerman> is it worth purchasing?
May 17 01:41:12 <robtaylor> depends if you generally have the pocket space for it and your phone
May 17 01:41:32 <ryanfaerman> i do. I generally wear a scott-e-vest
May 17 01:41:35 <trevarthan> I think robtaylor gets paid ffor it.
May 17 01:41:41 <ryanfaerman> ah,
May 17 01:41:58 * robtaylor couldn't possibly say
May 17 01:42:14 <ryanfaerman> one thing I am concered with
May 17 01:42:16 <trevarthan> I like mine so far. Had it a few days.
May 17 01:42:17 <ryanfaerman> is the typing
May 17 01:42:29 <robtaylor> its actually suprisingly fast
May 17 01:42:38 <robtaylor> it sucks for bash though
May 17 01:42:55 <ryanfaerman> I would imagine
May 17 01:43:11 <trevarthan> Thumbs are cool. Bash slow.
May 17 01:43:20 <robtaylor> but with the predictive text writing is really pretty quick. maybe better than handwriting speeds
May 17 01:43:45 <ryanfaerman> the demo I was playing with was rather lame, as nothing internet woked
May 17 01:43:47 <ryanfaerman> worked*
May 17 01:43:47 <robtaylor> (at least, better than my handwriting speed, but i never handwrite)
May 17 01:44:04 <ryanfaerman> I don't write clear enough for hand writing recognitions to work
May 17 01:45:45 <robtaylor> well, its 2:45 here,time for bed
May 17 01:45:49 <robtaylor> night
May 17 01:45:57 <ryanfaerman> gnite
May 17 01:46:16 <trevarthan> I use for web browsing from the couch, IM, email, and some SSH. Works pretty damn good for that. Been using PIM apps more lately and like them a lot too.
May 17 01:46:40 * ryanfaerman has a macbook pro
May 17 01:46:53 <ryanfaerman> Thing is... with a laptop and this... trying to think how much I would really use it
May 17 01:47:13 <ryanfaerman> I've a PocketPC (Dell Axim)
May 17 01:47:28 <ryanfaerman> a Palm (Tapwave Zodiac)
May 17 01:47:54 <ryanfaerman> i don't use either
May 17 01:47:59 <trevarthan> Then it's only worth it if you don't want to lug around the mac.. Or prefer to browse the web on yyour back.
May 17 01:49:24 <trevarthan> Or you're just a linux geek. It's pretty cool seeing linux on something this small.
May 17 01:52:15 <ryanfaerman> I am a linux geek
May 17 01:52:20 <ryanfaerman> mac and linux :P
May 17 01:54:51 <ryanfaerman> trevarthan: have you used the bluetooth on it much?
May 17 01:55:03 <trevarthan> You might like it then. I'm doing my best to use mine  as a laptop replacement. So far it's going well. Only gripe is how hard it is to get a good price on a portable bluetooth kb.
May 17 01:55:23 <ryanfaerman> does it support a mouse too?
May 17 01:55:26 <trevarthan> A bit. What profile?
May 17 01:55:36 <ryanfaerman> phone
May 17 01:56:20 <trevarthan> HID. Probably not though. No cursor.
May 17 01:56:26 <ryanfaerman> ah, right
May 17 01:56:46 <trevarthan> Dialup?
May 17 01:56:55 <ryanfaerman> Nope
May 17 01:57:00 <ryanfaerman> i have wireless broadband on my cell
May 17 01:57:48 <trevarthan> Yeah. I  think thats tthe dia;up profi;e. No. Havent used it.
May 17 01:58:18 <trevarthan> I still suck at thumb kb.
May 17 01:59:12 <ryanfaerman> how do you turn on the thumbKB ?
May 17 02:00:53 <trevarthan> You tap an input field with thumb instead of pen.
May 17 02:01:06 <ryanfaerman> it realizes the difference?
May 17 02:02:25 <trevarthan> Yeah. Slick.
May 17 02:03:07 <trevarthan> Video playback is nice too. I still need to install mythtv plugin though.
May 17 02:05:27 <ryanfaerman> how is the battery life?
May 17 02:07:28 <trevarthan> Pretty good. Been using since 7. It's 10 now. Have screen on low setting though. Usually less time.
May 17 02:07:33 <ryanfaerman> and it works with skype?
May 17 02:08:01 <trevarthan> Don't think yet. Supposedly later this year.
May 17 02:08:08 <ryanfaerman> ah,
May 17 02:08:16 <ryanfaerman> so what does it use for its voip?
May 17 02:08:18 <ryanfaerman> gtalk, yes?
May 17 02:09:20 <trevarthan> Dunno. Haven't Tried yet. Couple of clients though. Use my cell for that.
May 17 02:09:28 <ryanfaerman> true
May 17 02:10:30 <trevarthan> Great for meetings, or browsing privately without others looking over your shoulder im cubicle land.
May 17 02:10:38 <ryanfaerman> i would imagine
May 17 02:12:11 <trevarthan> Claws makes a fine imap client too. Wish the keys were bigger. But verry good still.
May 17 02:13:09 <trevarthan> I think pidgin.  Web. And maemopad are the killers though.
May 17 02:13:18 <ryanfaerman> maemopad?
May 17 02:13:29 <ryanfaerman> ie notepad?
May 17 02:14:01 <trevarthan> Yeah, digital note pad/sketch pad.
May 17 02:14:29 <trevarthan> I use a lot of paper  pads otherwise.
May 17 02:14:47 <ryanfaerman> does the pad "scroll" to let you draw more in the same document?
May 17 02:16:52 <trevarthan> Lemme check.
May 17 02:19:04 <trevarthan> No. But  you can add a whole tree of child pages with two  clicks.
May 17 02:19:27 <ryanfaerman> kool
May 17 02:19:39 <ryanfaerman> what pim are you using?
May 17 02:19:58 <trevarthan> Gpe
May 17 02:21:02 <trevarthan> Gpe-calendar is the only one i find useful. I use a flat file for tasks because i like to track completion dates.
May 17 02:21:31 <ryanfaerman> have you tried moving files back and forth t your comptuer?
May 17 02:21:38 <rwhitby> ryanfaerman: I use the gizmo client
May 17 02:21:54 <ryanfaerman> rwhitby: can you call phones with that?
May 17 02:22:34 <trevarthan> Yeah, i was just about to mention gizmo for sip but i haven't tested it yet.
May 17 02:23:21 <trevarthan> I used obex once. Worked ok. Used sftp just now. More painful.
May 17 02:23:39 <ryanfaerman> uh huh.
May 17 02:24:03 <ryanfaerman> I think I am going to get it. I really wnat to test it with my phone
May 17 02:24:08 <ryanfaerman> I hope it works.
May 17 02:24:26 <trevarthan> There is supposed to be a gnome-vfs plugin for sftp && smb but i can't get it to work with gpe-filemanager
May 17 02:24:53 <ryanfaerman> not too worried, I have a SD card reader
May 17 02:24:59 <trevarthan> Im sure it will. Dialup is common.
May 17 02:25:11 <ryanfaerman> what do you mean by "dialup"
May 17 02:25:22 <ryanfaerman> ah, my phone statement
May 17 02:25:25 <trevarthan> Its a bt profile.
May 17 02:25:35 * ryanfaerman is being dense
May 17 02:26:36 <trevarthan> I think my biggest gripe is that there is no audible,com client. And no a2dp.
May 17 02:26:48 <ryanfaerman> that's wireless headphones, yes?
May 17 02:27:23 <trevarthan> Both of which can be solved with software, i think. But doesn't exist yet.
May 17 02:27:29 <trevarthan> Yes.
May 17 02:27:50 <ryanfaerman> cool, gizmo is 35 bucks a year for callin
May 17 02:28:05 <ryanfaerman> and 1.9 cents call out
May 17 02:28:07 <ryanfaerman> not bad
May 17 02:28:34 <trevarthan> I think headset [mono] profile is due out later this year. So don't expect sip with a headset just yet.
May 17 02:28:51 <ryanfaerman> uh huh... but it has a wired headset, yes?
May 17 02:29:05 <trevarthan> Comes with a wired pair though.
May 17 02:29:14 <trevarthan> Yeah.
May 17 02:29:31 <rwhitby> ryanfaerman: yeah, you can dial out at cost with gizmo
May 17 02:30:10 <rwhitby> the speakerphone aspect works well with gizmo
May 17 02:30:23 <rwhitby> (that's how i use it at home for work calls)
May 17 02:30:34 <ryanfaerman> guys... I think you've sold me
May 17 02:30:42 <trevarthan> Man, this is the energizer battery. Incredible.
May 17 02:31:02 <rwhitby> ryanfaerman: I bought one about a week ago :-)
May 17 02:31:37 <rwhitby> (I have a Treo650 as my main phone/PDA, and am also an openmoko developer and lead the nslu2-linux.org project)
May 17 02:33:57 <trevarthan> Whitestork is cool too. Learning spanish. Helps.
May 17 02:42:26 <ryanfaerman> whitestork?
May 17 02:42:36 <ryanfaerman> rwhitby: cool, I have been looing at openmoko
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 17 02:59:57 2007