**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jun 26 02:59:57 2007
Jun 26 03:05:52 <outtolunc> i seen 1gb ones for like $19ish earlier.... http://www.flash-memory-store.com/1gb-multimedia.html
Jun 26 03:07:48 <outtolunc> anyone know what the proper svn url/branch is for the maemo 2.2 (770 stuff)
Jun 26 04:57:13 <tko> outtolunc: theoretically https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/maemo-branches/IT-2006/ but we didn't really enforce it properly due to lack of interest
Jun 26 05:08:24 <outtolunc> thanks
Jun 26 05:14:40 <unique311> hello all
Jun 26 05:15:02 <unique311> https://garage.maemo.org/
Jun 26 05:15:18 <unique311> pupnik POSE most active this week.   WOW
Jun 26 05:17:37 <unique311> can't seem to get mh-shot-tool to authenticate when it comes time to upload to flickr.
Jun 26 05:17:42 <unique311> anyone having this issue?
Jun 26 07:47:37 <mk8> Hi to all .....
Jun 26 08:35:04 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 26 08:37:20 <pupnik_> unique311: pretty funny re: pose active.  I just updated the progress status on some of the TODO list.
Jun 26 08:37:44 <pupnik_> guten morgen!
Jun 26 08:44:18 <unique311> doing alot of research on this thing...
Jun 26 08:44:59 <unique311> if i can find  the older sources codes.....3.0 3.1 and 3.2 could make some more magice happen
Jun 26 08:46:01 <unique311> i found 3.0 on Koders.com, but like i stated on my ITT post. have to DL every single file individually.
Jun 26 08:46:20 <unique311> make some magic happen pupnik.
Jun 26 08:47:04 <unique311> also. i just uploaded a new project....quicksynergy...GUI for synergy....works nicely...
Jun 26 08:47:18 <unique311> its in the garage
Jun 26 08:51:13 <pupnik_> what magic needed unique311 ?
Jun 26 08:52:09 <unique311> the keyboard you spoke of on ITT
Jun 26 08:52:18 <unique311> skin version of it.
Jun 26 08:52:45 <unique311> figure if i compile psoe 3.0 and am able to use the handpsring treo 90 rom.
Jun 26 08:52:48 <pupnik> oh.  do you like the idea of putting the keys on either side of the display?  or do you think that would suck too much?
Jun 26 08:52:52 <unique311> all i have to do is modify the skin...
Jun 26 08:53:06 <unique311> it would be coold..
Jun 26 08:53:07 <unique311> cool
Jun 26 08:53:08 <pupnik> yeah i'd figure that
Jun 26 08:53:38 <unique311> but you have to understand the roms being used now m130 and m505 don't support keyboard in the rom..
Jun 26 08:53:46 <unique311> treo 90 does
Jun 26 08:53:47 <pupnik> i'm wondering if maybe we could make a skin with keys that would work with roms for any PALM?
Jun 26 08:53:53 <unique311> no
Jun 26 08:54:00 <pupnik> :(
Jun 26 08:54:17 <unique311> reason being everything is in the rom..
Jun 26 08:54:37 <unique311> if you can extract the rom and hack the hell out of it..then maybe..
Jun 26 08:54:56 <pupnik> but you can type in any rom with bluetooth keyboard, i think
Jun 26 08:55:50 <pupnik> so i'm wondering if pose on-screen keys go through the x keyboard input
Jun 26 08:55:53 <unique311> you can, you can also use synergy to  to type.
Jun 26 08:56:12 <pupnik> i suppose i'd need to look at the source
Jun 26 08:56:23 <unique311> you can probably modify the source for the 3.5 emu and get it to support the treo90
Jun 26 08:56:37 <unique311> but i think thats going to be alot of work.
Jun 26 08:56:50 <pupnik> did you have any luck getting the .deb to work?
Jun 26 08:56:56 <unique311> yeah
Jun 26 08:57:14 <unique311> not sure if its the user/extras that fixed it.
Jun 26 08:57:36 <unique311> or removing the com.nokia.pose.service file.
Jun 26 08:57:39 <pupnik> ok good deal.  so i can youse your debian package config if i need to compile POSE for myself
Jun 26 08:57:47 <pupnik> s/youse/use
Jun 26 08:58:01 <unique311> yes
Jun 26 08:58:36 <unique311> you want the source code i modified?
Jun 26 08:59:28 <pupnik> yeah that would be good.
Jun 26 08:59:39 <unique311> k going to upload now..
Jun 26 08:59:49 <unique311> it will include fltk and pose.
Jun 26 09:00:00 <unique311> both are source files from debian
Jun 26 09:02:38 <unique311> might just write the admin at koders and see if he can just send me the source folder for 3.0
Jun 26 09:02:51 <unique311> http://www.divshare.com/download/1079353-e8a
Jun 26 09:03:07 <unique311> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^pupnik^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 26 09:04:28 <unique311> pupnik when you have a chance check this link out...on how to have the keyboard pop up....
Jun 26 09:04:31 <unique311> https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/browse.php?by=lang&lang=2
Jun 26 09:10:19 <pupnik> thanks
Jun 26 09:10:35 <pupnik> file is passwd protected?
Jun 26 09:10:57 <unique311> huh
Jun 26 09:10:59 <unique311> oh
Jun 26 09:11:02 <pupnik> i can't download it from divshare
Jun 26 09:11:05 <unique311> lol
Jun 26 09:11:08 <unique311> its pose
Jun 26 09:11:11 <unique311> i think
Jun 26 09:11:39 <pupnik> ok that worked
Jun 26 09:12:37 <pupnik> oh that snippets page is great
Jun 26 09:12:45 <pupnik> i had forgotten about it
Jun 26 09:13:21 <unique311> what about if you modify fltk source to pop up the hildon keyboard..
Jun 26 09:13:44 <unique311> i don't think you have to modify the pose source
Jun 26 09:13:47 <lardman> I see someone's removed the DSP info bit from the wish list. Any ideas whether this was on purpose (i.e. is it just a prompt for me to add some additional information in a wiki page for it)?
Jun 26 09:13:51 <unique311> pose already has a keyboard..
Jun 26 09:14:24 <unique311> whenever a keyboard is needed, its from the right click menu, and thats fltk isn't?
Jun 26 09:14:49 <pupnik> i don't know
Jun 26 09:15:09 <pupnik> watchu talkin' bout lardman?
Jun 26 09:17:18 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Jun 26 09:17:19 <pupnik> And why should Caesar be a tyrant then? // Poor man! I know he would not be a wolf, // But that he sees the Romans are but sheep:
Jun 26 09:17:22 <pupnik> - Shakespeare, 'Julius Ceasar'
Jun 26 09:24:23 <lardman> pupnik: On the roadmap page there used to be an entry in the wishlist saying that we'd like some 'hello world' style source code for the DSP
Jun 26 09:24:44 <lardman> But after re-reading the pade, I suppose I need to "Propose a new feature", which is fair enough
Jun 26 09:24:51 <lardman> s/pade/page
Jun 26 09:25:07 <unique311> pupnik here it is..it can be done...
Jun 26 09:25:12 <unique311> http://seriss.com/people/erco/fltk/
Jun 26 09:25:55 <unique311> check out this link http://seriss.com/people/erco/fltk/#TouchScreenNumPad
Jun 26 09:26:12 <unique311> shows how to make a pop-up numeric pad for fltk
Jun 26 09:27:22 <unique311> the only reason for needed a pop up keyboard would be to write when you have to save open, etc.
Jun 26 09:28:57 <AD-N770> good morning
Jun 26 09:29:30 <pupnik> k i havta go buy more ramen
Jun 26 09:29:54 <kulve> MoRpHeUz: should that gmyth-ls work?
Jun 26 10:05:18 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: yeah
Jun 26 10:05:37 <MoRpHeUz> gmyth-ls -h IP -p 6543 -u mythtv -w mythtv
Jun 26 10:05:52 <MoRpHeUz> (if database's passwd and user are mythtv)
Jun 26 10:06:35 <kulve> ** (gmyth-ls:30366): WARNING **: Could not connect to backend db
Jun 26 10:06:42 <kulve> it doesn't even send anything over tcp
Jun 26 10:07:17 <kulve> I have compiled it in a different prefix but I think gst and gnomevfs finds the new modules because of the env variables I've set
Jun 26 10:07:31 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: hhmm
Jun 26 10:07:43 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: try:
Jun 26 10:07:47 <MoRpHeUz> strace gmyth-ls ....
Jun 26 10:07:57 <MoRpHeUz> and see what strace shows you at the end...
Jun 26 10:08:09 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: maybe I know what is wrong =)
Jun 26 10:08:49 <kulve> how end..?
Jun 26 10:08:55 <kulve> connect(3, {sa_family=AF_INET, sin_port=htons(3306), sin_addr=inet_addr("192.168.3.11")}, 16) = -1 EINPROGRESS (Operation now in progress)
Jun 26 10:09:09 <MoRpHeUz> stops at that ?
Jun 26 10:09:13 <kulve> read(3, "K\0\0\2\377\25\4#28000Access denied for u"..., 16384) = 79
Jun 26 10:09:21 <MoRpHeUz> hhmm =)
Jun 26 10:09:28 <MoRpHeUz> try:
Jun 26 10:09:37 <MoRpHeUz> mysql -h IP -umythtv -pmythtv
Jun 26 10:09:52 <kulve> Argument invalid. Type --help
Jun 26 10:10:47 <MoRpHeUz> ??
Jun 26 10:11:06 <MoRpHeUz> mysql -h 192.168.3.11 -u mythtv -pmythtv (try this)
Jun 26 10:12:37 <kulve> oh, mysql..
Jun 26 10:13:06 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Jun 26 10:13:11 <kulve> don't have that..
Jun 26 10:14:28 <MoRpHeUz> ok....I think I know what is your problem...
Jun 26 10:14:37 <MoRpHeUz> try downloading (and installing) this: http://downloads.sourceforge.net/gmyth/libmysqlclient15_5.0.27_i386.deb?modtime=1179168457&big_mirror=0
Jun 26 10:15:13 <kulve> I do have libmysqlclient15-dev..
Jun 26 10:15:17 <kulve> what's that on your link+
Jun 26 10:15:18 <kulve> ?
Jun 26 10:15:55 <MoRpHeUz> it's not the dev one
Jun 26 10:16:03 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: it's the package itself
Jun 26 10:16:14 <MoRpHeUz> (there are this one and the dev one)
Jun 26 10:16:40 <kulve> ii  libmysqlclient15off        5.0.32-7etch1              mysql database client library
Jun 26 10:16:47 <kulve> I did have that one
Jun 26 10:16:58 <kulve> now I do have the mysql -command line client too..
Jun 26 10:18:13 <kulve> hmm..
Jun 26 10:18:36 <kulve> I think I've just listened the wrong port with my tcpdump..
Jun 26 10:19:43 <MoRpHeUz> hhmm hehe
Jun 26 10:19:50 <kulve> what's the --port for..?
Jun 26 10:20:04 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: try also gmyth-cat...it should work as well...
Jun 26 10:20:12 <MoRpHeUz> mythbacken's port
Jun 26 10:20:13 <kulve> doesn't work with out it, but doesn't matter what I put to it (the port)
Jun 26 10:20:34 <MoRpHeUz> gmyth-cat -h IP -p 6543 -u mythtv -c CHANNEL_NUMBER > file.mpg
Jun 26 10:21:06 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: maybe the guy that coded gmyth-ls made a mistake with this parameter...I can check it latter...(I have always used with the port)
Jun 26 10:21:38 <kulve> "-p 1" works just fine ;)
Jun 26 10:21:52 <kulve> "invalid argument" if I skip the parameter
Jun 26 10:22:17 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: ok..I'll correct that as soon as I finish the bug I'm working on! thanks...
Jun 26 10:23:25 <kulve> hmm.. the cat doesn't accept -w and -u ? (at least not according to the --help)
Jun 26 10:24:12 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: no...it just needs the user name
Jun 26 10:24:17 <MoRpHeUz> ( -u )
Jun 26 10:24:31 <MoRpHeUz> ow
Jun 26 10:24:33 <MoRpHeUz> my fault
Jun 26 10:24:40 <MoRpHeUz> it doesnt need even the username hehe
Jun 26 10:24:57 <MoRpHeUz> (according to --help)
Jun 26 10:25:11 <kulve> -f should give a file that's recorded earlier? and -c would start recording?
Jun 26 10:26:28 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: nops...
Jun 26 10:26:43 <MoRpHeUz> -c would start live tv
Jun 26 10:27:07 <MoRpHeUz> (then you redirect it's output ">" to a file or even pipe to a player)
Jun 26 10:27:27 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: btw, just tested and gmyth-ls needs backend's port, otherwise it doesnt work
Jun 26 10:27:57 <kulve> ./bin/gmyth-cat -h 192.168.3.11 -p 6543 -c 65 > /tmp/foo.mpg
Jun 26 10:27:58 <kulve> (gmyth-cat:32446): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_io_channel_write_chars: assertion `channel != NULL' failed
Jun 26 10:28:02 <kulve> (gmyth-cat:32446): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_io_channel_flush: assertion `channel != NULL' failed
Jun 26 10:28:06 <kulve> Segmentation fault
Jun 26 10:28:49 <kulve> hmm.. "-f filename" started to print lot's of numbers..
Jun 26 10:29:09 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: if the numbers were increasing it was right
Jun 26 10:29:18 <kulve> they do
Jun 26 10:29:32 <MoRpHeUz> ok...try to play /tmp/foo.mpg with mplayer for instance...
Jun 26 10:29:40 <MoRpHeUz> (need to CTRL+C to stop)
Jun 26 10:29:48 <kulve> 499968000
Jun 26 10:30:07 <kulve> I'm not able to use any graphical stuff now. I test that from home
Jun 26 10:30:12 <MoRpHeUz> (dont worry because once we assure all of them are working, gmyth-streamer will do all of these steps automatically for you)
Jun 26 10:30:27 <kulve> it seems that it's mostly working now..
Jun 26 10:30:31 <kulve> at least those two things
Jun 26 10:30:34 <MoRpHeUz> just try then: du -sh /tmp/foo.mpg and see if the file has some "size"
Jun 26 10:30:45 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: so gmyth-ls worked ?
Jun 26 10:30:48 <kulve> 478M    /tmp/foo.mpg
Jun 26 10:30:55 <kulve> yeah, the ls gives all my channels
Jun 26 10:31:09 <zuh> kulve: You can just run mplayer foo.mpeg and see if the numbers run like they are supposed to...
Jun 26 10:31:29 <kulve> zuh: excellent :)
Jun 26 10:31:32 <kulve> (and they are)
Jun 26 10:31:51 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: great! it seems to work =)
Jun 26 10:32:23 <MoRpHeUz> now you just have to start gmyth-streamer and you should have remote stream with live transcoding =)
Jun 26 10:32:38 <kulve> it's still a bit unclear to me how to use the mplayer on the device..
Jun 26 10:32:48 <MoRpHeUz> (if you have port 40000 opened on your firewall, you can even try that from wherever you are)
Jun 26 10:32:59 <zuh> kulve: next time, put the N800 in front of a mirror with the camera out and stream the feed ;)
Jun 26 10:33:15 <MoRpHeUz> haha
Jun 26 10:33:16 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Jun 26 10:33:45 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: gmyth-streamer will stream the video over http, and you will use mplayer to "play an url"... ;-)
Jun 26 10:34:03 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: this is why I said that you should not worry as gmyth-streamer would do all this stuff for you =)
Jun 26 10:34:21 <kulve> MoRpHeUz: can I choose the codecs it uses?
Jun 26 10:34:42 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: yeah...
Jun 26 10:34:55 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: but I just can assure that the default one works =) hehe
Jun 26 10:35:00 <MoRpHeUz> (and some other combinations)
Jun 26 10:35:14 <MoRpHeUz> but inside n800 I'm 100% sure that the default options work
Jun 26 10:36:01 <kulve> I'll try to find some time to test those out
Jun 26 10:36:01 <kulve> thx
Jun 26 10:37:52 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: it's me who has to say thanks =) (btw, thanks hehe)
Jun 26 11:01:16 <unique311> http://www.flickr.com/photos/unique0nez/
Jun 26 11:01:25 <unique311> new screenshots...of The POSE
Jun 26 11:02:01 <pupnik> :)
Jun 26 11:02:16 <pupnik> http://smarterits.com/~brandon/RonPaulLolz.gif
Jun 26 11:03:49 <pupnik> you pull that keyboard up with right click?
Jun 26 11:05:09 <inz> uniq, you got mh-shot-tool working?
Jun 26 11:10:13 <MoRpHeUz> good work..nice pics
Jun 26 11:10:17 <unique311> no
Jun 26 11:10:34 <unique311> keyboard is within the emu
Jun 26 11:11:07 <pupnik> ok so it comes up when you start that notepad thing
Jun 26 11:11:21 <unique311> yes
Jun 26 11:11:40 <unique311> it doesn't come up..
Jun 26 11:11:44 <unique311> you have to call it up..
Jun 26 11:11:50 <pupnik> ok i understand
Jun 26 11:11:55 <unique311> the graffiti area has the abc
Jun 26 11:12:10 <unique311> thats why i modified the skin again so people would be able to see it.
Jun 26 11:12:48 <unique311> yes mh-shot-tool is working inz
Jun 26 11:13:38 <roope> I hate it when I try to install an app (like urhos media app) and it just says "Operation failed". Thanks a lot for the verbose information.
Jun 26 11:16:02 <unique311> pupnik im not too sure about this ron paul character..
Jun 26 11:16:20 <unique311> he talks a good games...but at the end of the day he is still a republican....
Jun 26 11:16:33 <inz> uniq, cool, do you have any idea why it wasn't working?
Jun 26 11:17:07 <unique311> multiple browser windows being open...
Jun 26 11:17:21 <unique311> i left a comment on the website..
Jun 26 11:17:44 <unique311> something about flickr not being able to authenticate "frob"
Jun 26 11:20:11 <suihkulokki> roope: you know who defines the error messages :)
Jun 26 11:30:42 <konttori> roope: i hate that too
Jun 26 11:31:15 <konttori> There should be a log window in the installer.
Jun 26 11:33:45 <inz> there is
Jun 26 11:36:33 <unique311> I want The Enlightenment, who do i speak to....
Jun 26 11:37:22 <konttori> inz: great.
Jun 26 11:41:42 <MoRpHeUz> unique311: k-s =)
Jun 26 11:43:46 <unique311> hmmm i don't understand....
Jun 26 11:43:57 <unique311> looks like random keypresses to me..
Jun 26 11:44:17 <unique311> explain yourself MoRpHeUz
Jun 26 11:44:49 <MoRpHeUz> unique311: a guy called k-s is porting evas to the device...
Jun 26 11:44:50 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Jun 26 11:45:07 <MoRpHeUz> if you want enlightment on it, ask him =)
Jun 26 11:45:15 <unique311> ok
Jun 26 11:45:29 <MoRpHeUz> unique311: it's k-s =) take a look at his blog
Jun 26 11:45:34 <unique311> is k-s rasterman
Jun 26 11:45:47 <unique311> http://www.rasterman.com/
Jun 26 11:46:00 <MoRpHeUz> no...rasterman is helping
Jun 26 11:46:23 <MoRpHeUz> unique311: k-s: http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/
Jun 26 11:46:53 <unique311> so theirs 2 individuals working on it...
Jun 26 11:46:54 <unique311> ok
Jun 26 11:47:12 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Jun 26 11:47:27 <MoRpHeUz> unique311: take a look at the videos... =)
Jun 26 11:47:40 <unique311> i did...
Jun 26 11:47:46 <unique311> i saw all of ths on maemo.org
Jun 26 11:48:01 <MoRpHeUz> =)
Jun 26 11:48:06 <unique311> but on the other hand..i'm also seeing that on rasterman.com he is porting it.
Jun 26 11:48:12 <unique311> or has it running on the n800
Jun 26 11:48:50 <MoRpHeUz> yeah...they are working together
Jun 26 11:48:54 <unique311> ok
Jun 26 12:13:12 <konttori> UKTUBE 0.3 out now: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1667/UKMP-1.3-uktube0.3.deb
Jun 26 12:13:59 <konttori> Cool new features are: Faster download, less stalling. Cropped 16:9 mode for those videos with black borders and a do-not-save mode.
Jun 26 12:41:42 <roope> konttori: any ideas why it would give that error when i try to install the ukmp 1.3? I have python 2.5 already installed.
Jun 26 12:42:05 <roope> Clicking the link from the maemo.org downloads page.
Jun 26 12:42:22 <konttori> Does the error happen immediately?
Jun 26 12:42:31 <roope> Yeah. Before any progress banners.
Jun 26 12:42:56 <konttori> sounds like it's missing some pre-dependency.
Jun 26 12:43:15 <konttori> sounds odd, as I haven't heard such problems from anyone else
Jun 26 12:43:40 <konttori> otoh: not everyone has the time to report errors
Jun 26 12:43:54 <suihkulokki> roope: use xterm and install it as root with dpkg -i
Jun 26 12:44:53 <konttori> roope: can you open the log file?
Jun 26 12:45:09 <konttori> Application manager menu / tools/Log
Jun 26 12:45:20 <konttori> Maybe it tells something that makes sense
Jun 26 12:45:36 <unique311> http://shop.01media.com/info.asp?ProductID=16517
Jun 26 12:45:50 <unique311> some serious hardware mod..and this could be a beautiful thing..
Jun 26 12:47:09 <konttori> roope: have you been able to install previous versions?
Jun 26 12:47:44 <roope> yes, 1.0 at least was ok.
Jun 26 12:47:50 <roope> let's check the log.
Jun 26 12:47:58 <unique311> http://www.ic2005.com/shop/product.php?productid=30&cat=0&page=1
Jun 26 12:48:34 <gwak>   http://www.ic2005.com/shop/product.php?productid=30&cat=0&page=1
Jun 26 12:48:47 <roope> that's weird. nothing comes to log.
Jun 26 12:49:07 <konttori> Odd? Really nothing?
Jun 26 12:49:15 <roope> yeah. "operation failed" immediately.
Jun 26 12:49:17 <unique311> 4 in 1
Jun 26 12:49:30 <roope> perhaps this needs a reboot, like windows. ;)
Jun 26 12:49:32 <konttori> Does it even start with the lien: osso-application-installer 4.46 UI version 2?
Jun 26 12:49:39 <roope> yes. but nothing more.
Jun 26 12:49:39 <unique311> means i can use all  the different cards i have laying around.
Jun 26 12:49:43 <konttori> Yeah, might be that the system is jammed.
Jun 26 12:50:16 <konttori> Hmm... next line should be /usr/bin/dpkg-deb -f '/media/mmc1/UKMP1.3.deb'
Jun 26 12:50:21 <unique311> qwak do you own one of thos
Jun 26 12:50:24 <konttori> or something quite similar
Jun 26 12:50:24 <unique311> e
Jun 26 12:51:03 <`0660> does anyone have any guess of the new firmware release date? :)
Jun 26 12:54:46 <konttori> hey roope: try out the uktube version when you have rebooted: http://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1667/UKMP-1.3-uktube0.3.deb
Jun 26 12:54:55 <roope> what's the difference.
Jun 26 12:55:09 <konttori> It has the wickedly cool uktube bundled in.
Jun 26 12:55:17 <roope> what is uktube?
Jun 26 12:55:20 <konttori> OTOH, it needs mplayer to play the videos.
Jun 26 12:55:28 <konttori> It plays youtube videos in full fps in fullscreen
Jun 26 12:55:35 <roope> oh.
Jun 26 12:55:45 <konttori> have a look at this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy-SGsItwPA&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fkonttoristhoughts%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F
Jun 26 12:56:08 <konttori> that is from the initial version. the current one is 0.3 and is already much better.
Jun 26 12:56:19 <pupnik> konttori: that will work in IT2007 on 770?
Jun 26 12:56:23 <konttori> yeah
Jun 26 12:56:37 <konttori> and it2006 as well
Jun 26 12:56:53 <roope> it's a big-ass table.
Jun 26 12:57:45 <konttori> roope: You can install mplayer from http://downloads.maemo.org/product/mplayer
Jun 26 12:59:17 <jani> that uktube video reminds of one question that i was thinking few weeks ago..
Jun 26 12:59:33 <jani> does google provide api for youtube?
Jun 26 13:00:31 <PierreTramo> is the sourcecode of flasher available?
Jun 26 13:00:41 <konttori> jani: as in, being able to access google videos from youtube?
Jun 26 13:00:44 <PierreTramo> i guess it's not :)
Jun 26 13:00:53 <konttori> oh, you mean like for rss feeds?
Jun 26 13:01:06 <konttori> Yeah, they have api
Jun 26 13:01:27 <konttori> http://www.youtube.com/dev
Jun 26 13:01:37 <robtaylor> konttori: what's that video you're watching in the clip?
Jun 26 13:01:49 <konttori> it's a windows table parody
Jun 26 13:02:24 <konttori> roope: did the reboot help at all?
Jun 26 13:02:58 <konttori> robtaylor: this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY
Jun 26 13:03:29 <jani> ok.
Jun 26 13:03:56 <konttori> jani: did you  have thoughts about making some youtube app?
Jun 26 13:04:17 <jani> the idea i was thinking that it would be somewhat good idea to make a similar application  to joost that uses youtube as video storage ..
Jun 26 13:05:33 <konttori> jani: you mean like that it's playing youtube clips continuously?
Jun 26 13:05:39 <konttori> Sounds like a nice idea?
Jun 26 13:06:00 <pupnik> i prefer to click to start
Jun 26 13:06:14 <jani> yes, something like that.. .first one would pick  a topic or a keyword and then it would stream the stuff ..
Jun 26 13:07:41 <roope> konttori: no, still the same error. :/
Jun 26 13:07:57 <roope> perhaps my application manager turned into the aplication mangler.
Jun 26 13:07:57 <konttori> damn!
Jun 26 13:08:10 <konttori> Are you able to install other programs?
Jun 26 13:08:27 <konttori> Try installing mplayer if you don't already have it
Jun 26 13:08:46 <robtaylor> konttori: thanks. thats a big-ass table...
Jun 26 13:09:03 <jani> konttori: app would use some caching/background downloading so possible caps in playback would be minimal ..
Jun 26 13:09:10 <roope> Why not do this with a device the size of a small car?
Jun 26 13:09:17 <roope> konttori: yeah, for instance mplayer is installing smoothly.
Jun 26 13:09:59 <unique311> was wine ever discussed for the n800/770?
Jun 26 13:10:34 <pupnik> try windows on an 8mhz IBM AT first
Jun 26 13:10:37 <konttori> roope: and you tried the uktube version. Hmm... could you try uninstalling ukmp 1.0 first?
Jun 26 13:10:54 <konttori> unique311: can't be done, as n800 doesn't have intel processor
Jun 26 13:11:50 <roope> I have uninstalled 1.0 already....
Jun 26 13:11:54 <pupnik> it's theoretically possible, with an x86 core running the executeables, then wine handling the API
Jun 26 13:12:01 <pupnik> emu core
Jun 26 13:12:48 <gla55> isn't there dosbox port?
Jun 26 13:13:05 <konttori> roope: and still nothing in the log?
Jun 26 13:13:30 <bstock> anyone have a good list of repo's for os2007 on n770?
Jun 26 13:13:51 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/dosbox_maemo_065_001.tgz
Jun 26 13:14:11 <pupnik> 0.70 runs too, but has problems
Jun 26 13:14:21 <unique311> everything compiles expect for winlib...
Jun 26 13:14:23 <guardian> what's the best approach to draw antialised lines in a gtk application ? do it by myself or is there anything i can use ?
Jun 26 13:14:26 <unique311> Winelib
Jun 26 13:14:45 <roope> still nothing. perhaps my device is just borked.
Jun 26 13:15:17 <konttori> I'll try with my vanilla 770.
Jun 26 13:16:56 <bstock> can i use any n800 apps on an n770 w/ 2007 hacker os?
Jun 26 13:17:46 <pupnik> bstock: not with the latest 2007 hacker os i tried
Jun 26 13:18:21 <pupnik> unique what's the slowest windows machine you've used?  now imagine it 100 times slower.
Jun 26 13:18:42 <jani> seems the youtube api is pretty simple.
Jun 26 13:18:54 <bstock> hmm so the packages i use need to be what, regular 770 packages?
Jun 26 13:19:14 <pupnik> bstock, many work, but some demand features only found on the 800
Jun 26 13:20:01 <konttori> cool. garage doesn't work on 770
Jun 26 13:20:16 <konttori> 770 tells me: unable to complete secure transaction.
Jun 26 13:20:48 <pupnikafk> Qemu has two operating modes: User mode emulation. In this mode, QEMU can launch processes compiled for one CPU on another CPU. It can be used to launch the Wine Windows API emulator
Jun 26 13:21:15 * pupnikafk lulz
Jun 26 13:21:17 <konttori> ferenc: I'm unable to access garage.maemo.org from 770
Jun 26 13:23:42 <unique311> pupnik the slowest cpu use, hmmmmm.   amd athlon xp 3400+
Jun 26 13:24:39 <unique311> pretty new to this whole computer world..actually i think the notebook i'm using now beats the my desktop
Jun 26 13:25:02 <unique311> pentium M 2.0 ghz
Jun 26 13:25:38 <unique311> 1.69ghz
Jun 26 13:26:36 <roope> btw, http://maemointeraction.wordpress.com/2007/06/26/lets-talk-about-text-input/
Jun 26 13:26:55 <roope> For those interested in touch screen text input, there's some interesting stuff to read. As well as the design process we had.
Jun 26 13:28:04 <roope> Perhaps also i should spam the ubuntu mobile people...
Jun 26 13:28:19 <derf> I never actually use the built-in input method, anyway.
Jun 26 13:28:39 <konttori> roope: I just tested installing the ukmp on my 770 and it installed without a problem.
Jun 26 13:28:51 <konttori> did you try installing from the web or from a file?
Jun 26 13:29:05 <roope> from the web.
Jun 26 13:29:08 <konttori> Maybe you need to save the deb first and then install from the deb.
Jun 26 13:29:13 <konttori> just a though.
Jun 26 13:29:13 <roope> let's try that.
Jun 26 13:29:46 <roope> oh. yeah. that works. well, that sucks.
Jun 26 13:30:22 <roope> (not that it works, but rather that the browser one didn't work. :)
Jun 26 13:39:51 <konttori> Hmm... so odd. I'll have to do some tests.
Jun 26 13:42:12 <roope> anyway, the app now starts fine. i'll download some mp3's and test it out some more.
Jun 26 13:44:10 <konttori> roope: Have a test on the uktube as well. it's splendid!
Jun 26 13:44:26 <konttori> Well, the tool. It's more like a tool than an app at the moment.
Jun 26 13:44:37 <roope> let's see. idea of copy-paste sounds a bit clumsy. :) we'll see.
Jun 26 13:45:22 <konttori> roope: yeah. Would love to make some better way. But as said, it's a proof of concept at the moment.
Jun 26 13:45:46 <roope> like a thing that ... you should check out ... you know the iphone youtube.
Jun 26 13:46:06 <roope> well that was a clear thought. :D but there's this mobile interface to youtube. that's like pushing and promoting featured videos.
Jun 26 13:46:17 <roope> It would be really cool if the app would directly read from that API.
Jun 26 13:47:49 <konttori> roope: I'm kind of planning that, but... ;) It takes some time to make that kind of an app.
Jun 26 13:48:02 <konttori> I was thinking about making it use ukmp interface.
Jun 26 13:48:35 <roope> that would be cool. the thumbnails like your album arts.
Jun 26 13:49:09 <konttori> yeah. Icons are the best way to access stuff using your finger.
Jun 26 13:51:04 <roope> the individual song titles could also be finger sized. they're a bit small right now.
Jun 26 13:52:26 <roope> you could fit like a 6x2 grid of song titles at once inside an album.
Jun 26 13:52:34 <konttori> But, hover over the songs with your finger -> it won't play unless you click  -> Helps to position your finger.
Jun 26 13:53:15 <konttori> Hard to make 6x2 grid. Song names would need to be put to two lines.
Jun 26 13:53:24 <konttori> that is if I would make the font bigger.
Jun 26 13:53:25 <roope> yeah.
Jun 26 13:53:35 <Jaffa> Good UIs are rarely easy, IME ;-)
Jun 26 13:54:25 <konttori> anyway, I'll keep the two column model in mind in case I have the time to work on it some time.
Jun 26 13:54:37 <Jaffa> roope: your thesis is protected by a username/psasword combo
Jun 26 13:54:39 <roope> i'll sketch it just to check if it's crap.
Jun 26 13:54:39 <gla55> Jaffa: depends on how complex things the ui needs to achieve..
Jun 26 13:54:45 <roope> jaffa: wow. oh.
Jun 26 13:54:57 <roope> have to fix that immediately.
Jun 26 13:55:04 <Jaffa> Yeah, it's on planet already ;)
Jun 26 13:55:51 <Jaffa> gla55: I dunno, a good looking, easy-to-use UI may need more design time than implmentation (e.g. drawing/coding)) time, but it's still not easy. Having said that, google.com started off easy enough, I imagine.
Jun 26 13:56:08 <roope> jaffa: nobody said it would be easy. :)
Jun 26 14:03:21 <konttori> interesting. fps controller for ps3: http://au.gear.ign.com/articles/799/799262p1.html
Jun 26 14:03:48 <roope> jaffa: now the document works, thanks!
Jun 26 14:04:02 <Jaffa> roope: cool, thanks
Jun 26 14:04:51 <Jaffa> roope: yeah, you need to lose the "s" off https://
Jun 26 14:05:38 <roope> thanks again. :)
Jun 26 14:41:57 <roope> uktube works. :)
Jun 26 14:46:53 <dragorn> reading the UI design scrollback, a good decision might be to follow the NDS game UI style, where you usually hit a button once to highlight it, and hit it a second time to activate it if the game is touchscreen-driven
Jun 26 14:47:09 <dragorn> might be easy to make a double-hit with highlight button class for hildon
Jun 26 14:47:19 <dragorn> well, it WOULD be easy.  Might be worth-while.
Jun 26 15:17:35 <roope> well, list items work like that already. for buttons the usual expectation is that first press activates.
Jun 26 15:17:57 <roope> lotus notes has those two-press to activate -buttons, and those are universally criticized.
Jun 26 15:18:38 <dragorn> roope: I don't advocate it for usual apps, but for tablets and especially finger-driven tablet apps, it might make sense is all I'm saying.  Works well for the DS.
Jun 26 15:18:41 <ttuttle> Hey, is it true that multimedia (at least sound) is broken on hacker edition 2007 for the N770?
Jun 26 15:21:24 <ericz> hey ttuttle :)
Jun 26 15:21:31 <ttuttle> ericz: Hey.  Yours ship yet?  (Mine didn't.)
Jun 26 15:21:46 <ericz> nah, i don't think so, it emails you right? and says in Your Account?
Jun 26 15:22:37 <ttuttle> ericz: Yeah, or so I hear.
Jun 26 15:22:51 <dragorn> from woot?
Jun 26 15:22:56 <ericz> dragorn, yeah
Jun 26 15:22:57 <dragorn> buy.com has them for $140 today, too
Jun 26 15:23:02 <dragorn> for anyone who missed woot yesterday
Jun 26 15:23:05 <ttuttle> dragorn: Are you the Kismet dragorn?
Jun 26 15:23:10 <dragorn> yeah
Jun 26 15:23:14 <ttuttle> dragorn: Cool.  What's up?
Jun 26 15:23:27 <ericz> haha, i was hoping on a bluetooth keyboard as today's woot
Jun 26 15:23:29 <ttuttle> dragorn: (How's newcore coming along?)
Jun 26 15:23:33 <ttuttle> ericz: Yeah, you wish.
Jun 26 15:23:34 <dragorn> not much.  waiting for builds on stuff to complete.
Jun 26 15:23:39 <ttuttle> dragorn: Need CPU?
Jun 26 15:23:51 <dragorn> ttuttle: Surprisingly close to being done, needs more gui elements and thats about it
Jun 26 15:23:57 <dragorn> and then I need to get mouse working in ncurses
Jun 26 15:24:00 <ttuttle> dragorn: Cool.  I'm really excited.
Jun 26 15:24:06 <dragorn> nope, this is work stuff anyhow I'm waiting on.
Jun 26 15:24:20 * dragorn has plenty of cpu, unfortunately also plenty of stuff to compile
Jun 26 15:24:23 <ttuttle> dragorn: Ah, /me knows what that's like.  Plone takes almost a minute to restart ;-)
Jun 26 15:24:35 <ttuttle> dragorn: distcc over the Internet would probably be pretty slow.  (And untrusted.)
Jun 26 15:24:40 <dragorn> yuo
Jun 26 15:24:42 <dragorn> yup
Jun 26 15:24:58 <dragorn> i've got a quad 2ghz amd64.  it's fine. :P
Jun 26 15:25:16 <ttuttle> dragorn: /me grumbles.  I've got a dual 2ghz core2duo.  It's not bad.  :-)
Jun 26 15:26:29 <ttuttle> dragorn: So does Kismet run well on the N770?
Jun 26 15:26:59 <dragorn> not incredibly, the drivers are weird
Jun 26 15:27:13 <dragorn> the 770 works better than the 800, at least w/ the released firmwares, though
Jun 26 15:27:14 <ttuttle> dragorn: Oh.  Do they need debugging, or is there no hope?  (I wouldn't mind debugging if I can help.)
Jun 26 15:27:23 <dragorn> ttuttle: Not much to debug, they're binary blobs
Jun 26 15:27:24 <ttuttle> dragorn: /me smiles.  770++.
Jun 26 15:27:28 <ttuttle> dragorn: Ewww.  What card?
Jun 26 15:27:41 <dragorn> ttuttle: Wrapped in a small OSS shell to translate to kernel skb buffers
Jun 26 15:27:51 <ttuttle> dragorn: That sucks.
Jun 26 15:28:00 <dragorn> ttuttle: Interesting dodge to avoid using kernel headers in the binary blob
Jun 26 15:28:03 <ttuttle> dragorn: Someone should ban binary blogs.
Jun 26 15:28:07 <ttuttle> dragorn: They suck.
Jun 26 15:28:22 <ttuttle> dragorn: So what kind of card is it?  Nokia proprietary?
Jun 26 15:28:47 <dragorn> ttuttle: It's a conexant, somehow related to a prism54 softmac.  someone did something to get the p54 softmac driving the card on a 770, but it was a long time ago, theres been no dev since, and it seems like the p54 softmac stuff is in an usuable state of flux at the moment
Jun 26 15:29:18 <ttuttle> dragorn: Ah.  That's too bad.  softmac is cool.  Maybe once d80211/mac80211 settles down someone can port it.
Jun 26 15:29:34 <ttuttle> dragorn: What kind of problems does it have?
Jun 26 15:29:42 <dragorn> We'll see, I don't know how well generic kernels work on the 770
Jun 26 15:29:49 <dragorn> if there are other magic bits besides the wireless
Jun 26 15:30:03 <ttuttle> dragorn: They *do* offer patches, right?  Right?
Jun 26 15:30:05 <dragorn> Well, sometimes it won't go into monitor mode.  Sometimes it won't come out.  Sometimes it thinks it came out, but doesn't work.
Jun 26 15:30:13 <ttuttle> dragorn: It's illegal not to, I think.
Jun 26 15:30:30 <ttuttle> dragorn: Does repeating the operation help? ;-)
Jun 26 15:31:53 <ttuttle> dragorn: Oh, is anyone maintaining gpsmap?  I've thought about making a "1000-in-1" Linux mapping/data application, but I don't know enough about it.
Jun 26 15:31:54 <ericz> bah, online shopping is not cool.. i'm just too impatient
Jun 26 15:32:07 <ttuttle> ericz: Have patience. =D
Jun 26 15:32:30 <ericz> i hope i get it this week at least
Jun 26 15:33:06 <ttuttle> ericz: I think you probably will.  But don't quote me.  It's probably just my own false hope talking.
Jun 26 15:33:11 <ericz> hrm.. i wonder what my WPA key is.. i'll have to look into that
Jun 26 15:33:16 <ericz> i'm going to need that
Jun 26 15:34:05 <ericz> damn my security practice.. it's going to take forever to type that with an onscreen keyboard
Jun 26 15:35:18 <dragorn> not always.  the 800 is even more flaky, usually with the firmware version of the drivers it locks up randomly about 5 minutes in
Jun 26 15:36:35 <dragorn> theres an updated set of the OSS modules which works better, but would require me to go swapping modules on users and chrooting things to initialize the device again, and that doesn't make me too comfortable.  I don't like doing things that require users reboot their devices every time if something goes funny
Jun 26 15:48:31 <ericz> ttuttle, what do you think a round-trip flight to dallas costs?
Jun 26 15:48:46 <dragorn> from?
Jun 26 15:50:03 <ericz> virginia?
Jun 26 15:50:39 <ericz> haha, security would go through everything i owned followed by cavity search because the return flight would only need to be like a few hours after arrival
Jun 26 15:52:41 <dragorn> dunno, i've done NY to SF and back w/ a 6 hour stay in cali and didn't get groped
Jun 26 15:54:18 <ericz> that's a long flight for only 6 hours
Jun 26 15:54:29 <dragorn> yup
Jun 26 15:54:35 <dragorn> about 6 hours each way infact :P
Jun 26 15:54:46 <ericz> i've done VA to seattle quite a few times
Jun 26 15:54:49 <ericz> but i stayed a couple weeks
Jun 26 15:55:11 <ericz> VA to ireland had to be the worst
Jun 26 15:57:53 <dragorn> ttuttle: newcore has been taking a back seat the last few weeks to getting the new wispy hardware running
Jun 26 15:58:54 <ttuttle> dragorn: Ah.  Maybe I need to get a WiSpy then.
Jun 26 15:59:45 <dragorn> ttuttle: http://kismetwireless.net/screenshot/spectool-gtk-dev.png ...  once I work around the lack of gtk-cairo integration on the maemo stuff it ought to work on the 770/800 too
Jun 26 15:59:51 <dragorn> though I haven't tested the speed it renders on them
Jun 26 16:00:09 <ttuttle> dragorn: Er, but the N770 doesn't allow you to use USB without an awkward power injector.
Jun 26 16:00:22 <dragorn> yeah
Jun 26 16:00:23 <dragorn> oh well
Jun 26 16:00:25 <dragorn> :P
Jun 26 16:00:29 <ttuttle> dragorn: What's the difference between the Topo and Planar?
Jun 26 16:00:32 <dragorn> Still worth having.  Also, network support.
Jun 26 16:00:39 <ttuttle> dragorn: Is Topo over time?
Jun 26 16:00:52 <dragorn> planar is realtime, topo is colored by the # of signal peaks over time
Jun 26 16:00:59 <ttuttle> dragorn: Ah.
Jun 26 16:01:01 <dragorn> when you have overlapping networks you can see them *really* well in topo
Jun 26 17:24:04 <monteslu> anyone here doing python development for the 770 or 800 ?
Jun 26 17:26:10 <MoRpHeUz> monteslu: a lot of people  I guess =)
Jun 26 17:32:14 <kulve> MoRpHeUz: btw. gmyth.pc has incorrect -I in Cflags. Or the gms uses wrong #includes
Jun 26 17:34:05 <MoRpHeUz> kulve: hhmm...I'll take a look at that....but gms is written in python..so doesnt have #includes hehe...are you talking about gmyth itself ?
Jun 26 17:34:27 <kulve> bbl
Jun 26 17:36:09 <monteslu> I'm thinking of writing an app that will control my kid's lego mindstorms NXT through bluetooh using NXT_Python: http://home.comcast.net/~dplau/nxt_python/index.html
Jun 26 17:36:37 <monteslu> should I just bundle it for a repo as NXT_Python, plus my app?
Jun 26 17:37:04 <monteslu> my own app will probably be less than 2K
Jun 26 17:37:18 <monteslu> and NXT_Python is pretty small itself
Jun 26 17:37:49 <dragorn> i'd say 2 packages is better
Jun 26 17:38:03 <dragorn> because if others develop w/ nxt python it's nice to have it available vanilla
Jun 26 17:38:08 <dragorn> my $0.02 anyhow
Jun 26 17:38:48 <monteslu> hmm.. what if i don't change the libs at all, just add my nxtcontroller.py and a menu entry for it?
Jun 26 19:13:39 <unique311> To hildon or not to hildon, that is the question.
Jun 26 19:45:58 <khertan> Hi !
Jun 26 19:52:41 <khertan> Someone know a good small gtk imap client that enable to read imap mail offline ?
Jun 26 19:58:49 <derf> khertan: I wish.
Jun 26 19:59:07 <derf> If you find one, let me know. Hildon's mail reader is completely useless.
Jun 26 19:59:40 <mk8> Hi to all ....
Jun 26 20:09:22 <pupnikafk> i wish nokia were more aggressive with this platform
Jun 26 20:09:41 <gla55> not time for it yet
Jun 26 20:09:45 <pupnikafk> intel is now doing advertising for them.  they have a good set of software (with holes)
Jun 26 20:09:48 <pupnikafk> ok
Jun 26 20:10:10 <pupnikafk> we are bleeding edge
Jun 26 20:10:36 <pupnik> hey gla55, do you want to port a really cool emu to nokia?! :)D
Jun 26 20:11:31 <gla55> i'm just a 770 user,   the dev i do is symbian and j2me
Jun 26 20:18:51 <khertan> i ve just finish to install gcc-3.4 on my n800 for onboard dev ...
Jun 26 20:19:03 <khertan> can i install the sdk on the device ?
Jun 26 20:19:43 <pupnik> why do you want to do that
Jun 26 20:19:56 <khertan> because i want to dev onboard :)
Jun 26 20:20:18 <khertan> i want to be able to dev while i'm in public transport
Jun 26 20:20:29 <khertan> and i ve not many time at home to dev ...
Jun 26 20:20:59 <khertan> (i m in a train 2,5 hours by days)
Jun 26 20:21:27 <khertan> the header for hildon (hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h)
Jun 26 20:23:48 <kakos> Is there a good file manager for the N800?
Jun 26 20:32:27 <khertan> arg ... it s take many Mo the dev headers ...
Jun 26 20:33:30 <jani> what?!
Jun 26 20:35:36 <khertan> i m installing the hildon-libs-dev
Jun 26 20:35:45 <khertan> directly on the device
Jun 26 20:36:09 <jani> compiling you mean  ? =)
Jun 26 20:37:52 <khertan> yes compiling onboard :)
Jun 26 20:43:54 <khertan> YAAAAPIKAHAY !
Jun 26 20:44:37 <khertan> i ve successfully compiling onboard (on my n800) a c application that use the hildon framework ...
Jun 26 20:53:30 <tko> khertan: with just a single battery? amazing :-P
Jun 26 20:55:15 <khertan> lol :)
Jun 26 20:55:32 <khertan> only 30s for a dummy 300 lines applications
Jun 26 20:57:39 <kakos> I'm so glad that metalayer-crawl is smart enough to ignore symlinks.  </sarcasm>
Jun 26 21:10:26 <pupnik> ~flash!  ahh ahhhhh!~
Jun 26 21:11:01 <Sho_> kakos: mc ;)
Jun 26 21:11:21 <kakos> Sho_: Isn't mc command line based?
Jun 26 21:11:31 <Sho_> kakos: yes (you'll need Ossi Xterm)
Jun 26 21:11:51 <kakos> Sho_: As much as I love terminals, I'd prefer a GUI-based file manager
Jun 26 21:12:11 <Sho_> kakos: Unfortunately I haven't found a decent GUI-based one
Jun 26 21:12:16 <Sho_> (for the N800, that is)
Jun 26 21:12:23 <kakos> gpe-filemanager seems to work fine
Jun 26 21:12:54 <Sho_> kakos: I was pondering to convert Thunar (XFce.org's lightweight file manager into a Hildon app, but I'm a KDE developer and tremble at the thought of digging into GTK+ code =)
Jun 26 21:13:39 <tko> Sho_: you could always start by compiling qt and kde... :)
Jun 26 21:13:44 <Sho_> kakos: http://thunar.xfce.org/index.html
Jun 26 21:14:02 <Sho_> tko: I could, but unfortunately Maemo's input methods are tied to GTK+
Jun 26 21:14:18 <tko> Sho_: well, you could continue there.. :)
Jun 26 21:14:29 <kakos> Eh.  I don't need a great file manager... just one that lets me get to root without the use of symlinks
Jun 26 21:14:36 <Sho_> tko: So my first todo item would be to check out if I can somehow splice Xvkbd and the input method together to make it work with Qt windows, too
Jun 26 21:15:11 <tko> there is some reverse-engineered documentation in the wiki, and we should be getting the interesting parts of the input methods published "real soon now"
Jun 26 21:15:34 <Sho_> tko: Sounds cool - could you hand me a link to that wiki page?
Jun 26 21:16:11 <tko> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/InputMethod I think
Jun 26 21:16:31 <Sho_> tko: thanks
Jun 26 21:16:33 <tko> I can't recall the state of opening the implementation.. it's been in progress for so long
Jun 26 21:17:01 <Sho_> tko: got the device less than two weeks ago and didn't have too much time to look into its software guts yet :-)
Jun 26 21:18:11 <Sho_> tko: With Qt4 it would probably be pretty easy to do given that it can be built to use the glib main event loop
Jun 26 21:20:37 <tko> Sho_: I'd probably just reimplement it since it's all based on a couple of X messages anyway
Jun 26 21:22:14 <Sho_> food for thought, hmhm
Jun 26 21:22:24 * Sho_ reserves some weekend tinkering time
Jun 26 21:25:25 * kakos wants a transparent full-screen finger keyboard
Jun 26 21:40:15 <roope> kakos: for a transparent keyboard, how would it really work?
Jun 26 21:40:25 <roope> how would you select something from the application area?
Jun 26 21:42:18 <roope> how would you reposition the cursor. how would you paint text. how would you pan the web page etc.
Jun 26 21:47:30 <kakos> roope: It'd be just like the full-screen keyboard we have now, but it types in real time rather than storing it in a buffer and you can see it interact with the textbox in question
Jun 26 21:47:51 <roope> kakos: so you couldn't actually interact with the background?
Jun 26 21:48:06 <roope> For instance, you couldn't reposition the cursor in the textbox by tapping there?
Jun 26 21:48:13 <kakos> Not while the keyboard is up.  Then when you minimise it, you interact with the background again
Jun 26 21:48:17 <roope> That's a quite big problem if you would want to actually put the cursor into a new position.
Jun 26 21:48:48 <kakos> I'm just looking for an incremental improvement on the existing full-screen keyboard rather than the ultimate solution
Jun 26 21:49:01 <roope> how would it improve it?
Jun 26 21:49:31 <kakos> Well, I was always annoyed that I was essentially blind while the full-screen keyboard was up.
Jun 26 21:50:02 <kakos> Say I'm writing something in the Note app, I'd like to be able to see the text appear in the Notes application rather than all the text being crammed into that little buffer at the top
Jun 26 21:50:20 <kakos> Furthermore, if you don't need that buffer at the top, you could space the keys out a little better since you have more screen realestate
Jun 26 21:50:32 <roope> Well. Kind of. But have you tried actually drawing a transparent keyboard on top of text on Notes? It's a complete mess.
Jun 26 21:50:44 <roope> Both have text. It's not really easy to read.
Jun 26 21:51:34 <roope> I'd like to see a real-life worst case example first. :)
Jun 26 21:52:13 <kakos> Well, if you can somehow manage true alpha transparency, it can be done.
Jun 26 21:52:30 <kakos> I have terminals layers upon each other and I can read each layer fairly consistently
Jun 26 21:52:33 <roope> I didn't mean from a technical perspective. Of course it can be done, but.
Jun 26 21:52:58 <roope> I tried. I really tried those when doing the design.
Jun 26 21:53:07 <roope> But at least I thought them to be really poor.
Jun 26 21:53:40 <kakos> roope: You designed the full-screen keyboard?
Jun 26 21:53:48 <roope> kakos: yup.
Jun 26 21:54:01 <kakos> roope: Cool.  :)  Thanks, BTW.
Jun 26 21:54:13 <roope> I'm all for still improving it. :)
Jun 26 21:54:24 <roope> But I'm not 100% sure about transparency being an improvement.
Jun 26 21:54:37 <roope> The problem really comes that if the textfield goes behind the keyboard, then manipulating the textfield becomes harder.
Jun 26 21:54:53 <kakos> roope: Neither am I.  It was the first thing that came to mind when I was thinking of how to improve it
Jun 26 21:55:51 <kakos> Hmmm
Jun 26 21:57:37 <roope> For widgets that have labels an obvious improvement would be to just import the label of that widget to the full screen view.
Jun 26 21:57:45 <roope> so at least you remember to which field you are entering text.
Jun 26 21:58:52 <kakos> Sorry about that
Jun 26 21:59:38 <kakos> Is there a way to tell between a tap from the stylus and a finger pressing on the screen?
Jun 26 21:59:54 <roope> yes. and we utilize it, for launching stylus keyboard / finger keyboard.
Jun 26 22:00:02 <kakos> That's what I thought, but wanted to make sure
Jun 26 22:00:06 <Sho_> roope: A real-time translucent full-screen keyboard would be an interesting opt-in feature, though. For example, to be able to follow a chat while typing a response, as not to be redundant or late.
Jun 26 22:00:19 <kakos> Perhaps when the full-screen keyboard is up, thumb presses interact with the transparent keys that overlay the screen and the stylus interacts with the background?
Jun 26 22:00:21 <roope> sho: yes, that's true. there are real problems with the current thing.
Jun 26 22:00:39 <roope> kakos: in theory, yes, but who is holding the stylus when using the finger keyboard?
Jun 26 22:00:49 <roope> (your fingernails can act as the stylus, yes.)
Jun 26 22:00:57 <Sho_> roope: Does the X server on the device ship with COMPOSITE?
Jun 26 22:01:24 <roope> sho: no idea, sorry. I don't really know about the technical stuff.
Jun 26 22:01:29 <roope> I'm an interaction designer.
Jun 26 22:01:46 <kakos> roope: I can hold the stylus while I'm using the thumb keyboard.
Jun 26 22:02:02 <Sho_> roope: ok :)
Jun 26 22:02:16 <roope> kakos: yes well, you _can_, but. :)
Jun 26 22:02:20 <kakos> roope: I just kind of nestle it between my palm and the side of the N800 when I'm thumb typing
Jun 26 22:02:32 <roope> Most users don't.
Jun 26 22:02:36 <kakos> roope: Well, I don't care about anyone else.  ;)
Jun 26 22:03:00 <roope> I have to care. :)
Jun 26 22:04:43 <kakos> Hmmm.  Make one of the buttons swap between interacting with the full-screen keyboard and the background?  So, activate a text field, open up the full-screen keyboard, type a little, hit the button and select another text field, hit the button again, type some more, ad nauseum?
Jun 26 22:04:45 <Sho_> Although curiously, I'm much faster with the stylus-driven keyboard than the finger one (I thought it would be the reverse)
Jun 26 22:05:02 <roope> kakos: wouldn't that button be called the "close keyboard" button?
Jun 26 22:05:13 <roope> close it, select another text field, continue?
Jun 26 22:05:37 <kakos> Yes...
Jun 26 22:05:38 <kakos> Heh
Jun 26 22:05:42 <kakos> I'm tired.  :)
Jun 26 22:06:43 <Sho_> roope: got any user testing numbers on typing performance stylus vs. fingers? wondering if I'm part of the trend :)
Jun 26 22:07:16 <kakos> You could make the full-screen keyboard an option as the default text entry method so when you click on a text field, it pops up instead of the virtual keyboard or handwriting recognition thing.
Jun 26 22:08:35 <kakos> That way it becomes much easier for users to just close it and switch to a new text field and have it pop up again
Jun 26 22:08:36 <roope> sho: umm, mostly speed-wise there isn't a major difference.
Jun 26 22:08:45 <roope> some are faster with the one, some with the other.
Jun 26 22:09:06 <Sho_> hmkay :)
Jun 26 22:09:18 <roope> kakos: that's true, kind of. then agian, if you tap the text field with the thumb, it does launch the full screen immediately.
Jun 26 22:09:43 <roope> speed is gained with time of use. so the more you use one, the faster you become. (chicken and egg, kind of. :)
Jun 26 22:10:01 <kakos> Hmmm.  So it does...
Jun 26 22:10:04 <kakos> I didn't know that, actually
Jun 26 22:10:38 <roope> kakos: that's what we use the finger detection. tap text field with stylus -> get stylus optimized input method. tap text field with finger -> get finger optimized input method.
Jun 26 22:10:59 <roope> I like to think that it's a neat idea. :)
Jun 26 22:11:10 <kakos> It is, actually.
Jun 26 22:11:24 <kakos> It just never occurred to me.  :)
Jun 26 22:12:29 <kakos> On a slight aside, when you tap the button to get upper case letters, why doesn't it revert to lower-case letters once you hit a key?
Jun 26 22:12:52 <roope> in the finger keyboard? it should.
Jun 26 22:13:15 <Sho_> kakos: unless by "tap the button to get upper case letters" you mean caps lock ;)
Jun 26 22:13:47 <kakos> Sho_: Yeah, that one, but there is no normal shift in the finger board as far as I can tell.
Jun 26 22:14:02 <Sho_> hm
Jun 26 22:14:06 <roope> hm
Jun 26 22:14:06 <kakos> roope: Hmmm.  Perhaps my install is busted.  :(
Jun 26 22:14:11 * Sho_ has his n800 in the other room atm :)
Jun 26 22:14:48 <roope> no, actually you're right. hmm.
Jun 26 22:14:51 <roope> auto-cap does work, but.
Jun 26 22:15:14 <kakos> yeah.  The auto-cap works fine
Jun 26 22:17:30 <roope> I guess. Hm. It's simpler to have only two states and manual user interaction. I didn't want three states. like shift state and caps lock state.
Jun 26 22:17:36 <roope> then again, it wouldn't really need caps lock at all.
Jun 26 22:20:01 <roope> poor answer, sorry. :)
Jun 26 22:21:03 <kakos> Heh
Jun 26 22:21:46 <kakos> Would it be possible to make the transparency thing a selectable option?  With it off, you get what we have now, with it on you get a transparent keyboard without the buffer thingie so you can do things like chat
Jun 26 22:22:25 <roope> It would have a fair bit of work, because then all the button sizes would need to change. The layout would ideally change.
Jun 26 22:22:47 <roope> Rather than just increasing the height of the current buttons, a better layout could be created. and that would be very much work et.c
Jun 26 22:23:23 <kakos> I'll make you cookies if you do it.  <3
Jun 26 22:24:57 <kakos> Anyway, just a suggestion.
Jun 26 22:25:15 <kakos> Does Maemo actually support alpha transparency?
Jun 26 22:25:24 <roope> yeah. but it wouldn't be really trivial.
Jun 26 22:25:31 <roope> kakos: some parts already do.
Jun 26 22:25:51 <roope> so yes technically, it can be done. it's not used universally.
Jun 26 22:26:15 <kakos> Well, just a suggestion.
Jun 26 22:26:28 <kakos> I'll send you guys a delicious cake if you implement it, but I won't hold my breath.  :)
Jun 26 22:40:08 <kakos> roope: Do you know if the thumb keyboard is open sourced or not?
Jun 26 23:57:24 <PierreTramo> any *BSD user here?
Jun 27 01:11:30 <SeRi> how can i remove  canola?
Jun 27 01:40:05 <dobey> hola
Jun 27 01:46:50 <rhys> ello
Jun 27 01:49:34 <rhys> how do you type on the nokias?
Jun 27 01:50:03 <dobey> the on-screen keyboard, or a bluetooth keyboard
Jun 27 01:51:18 <rhys> so for xterm and the like, theres an osk?
Jun 27 01:51:28 <dobey> there is on my n800
Jun 27 01:52:02 <dobey> what i'm having trouble with, is flashing the device with a new version of OS 2007 :(
Jun 27 01:53:26 <rhys> im looking to buy one
Jun 27 01:53:46 <rhys> the nokia n800, the sony mylo, or a treo 700p
Jun 27 01:53:56 <rhys> i still need to look at the ipaqs
Jun 27 01:54:25 <dobey> the samsung q1 looks nice too, but it's $799
Jun 27 01:54:50 <dobey> is anyone else around that knows anything about flashing the new firmware?
Jun 27 01:54:53 <rhys> hmno.
Jun 27 01:55:51 <dobey> the How-To on maemo.org for using the flasher, sucks
Jun 27 02:34:03 <Aeroraptor> Does kb7sqi ever talk in here?
Jun 27 02:54:35 <rhys> why use debian for embedded?
Jun 27 02:58:20 <rwhitby> it supports arm
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 27 02:59:56 2007