**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 10 02:59:57 2007 Jul 10 03:03:13 you could try reading /etc/osso_software_version Jul 10 03:03:33 though not sure if it exists in older firmware Jul 10 03:04:31 Does anyone know of a way to exclude a directory from indexing by the metalayer-crawler on the n800? It is coming across my 80k+ MaemoMapper files and choking Jul 10 03:04:37 another way is to read /proc/cpuinfo (there's a hardware line towards the end) Jul 10 03:05:26 rocketman: it was discussed in one of the mailing lists a few months back (maemo-users or maemo-devel, not sure) just run a search for metalayer-crawler Jul 10 03:05:58 it involved editing /etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler0 and passing some arguments that specify where to search for Jul 10 03:08:23 I found this: http://osdir.com/ml/handhelds.maemo.user/2007-01/msg00544.html Jul 10 03:08:48 yeah that's it Jul 10 03:09:17 I wish he had pasted a copy of his edited script or something Jul 10 03:09:24 in fact i'll do it too Jul 10 03:09:39 It would be nice if one could exclude directories and not simply say "only search here" Jul 10 03:10:04 I have never been a big fan of indexing programs in general Jul 10 03:17:04 I am viewing the script in nano right now, but not sure what I need to change/add Jul 10 03:17:16 My Unix script-fu is decidedly limited Jul 10 03:18:47 hang on a sec Jul 10 03:19:39 here's what i did: http://www.pastebin.ca/611924 Jul 10 03:25:42 thanks, disq, that is helpful Jul 10 03:30:29 :) Jul 10 04:00:36 weird, my 770 just rebooted, no reason :/ Jul 10 04:04:51 it happens Jul 10 04:21:23 i was wondering if anyone knew about abiword on the n800? Jul 10 04:25:34 what's the command to run password safe from xterm? Jul 10 04:52:03 disq: milhouse: I just commited some code for Kagu that dramatically speeds up the song list and now playing screen loads and next song changing. It also reduced memory consumption a bit. Here's the commit: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/125 and you can use this command to check it out via SVN: `svn co https://www.guardiani.us/svn/kagu/trunk kagu` Jul 10 04:53:09 There's plenty more room for improvement where that came from too, but I'm going to move on to improving the selection interface next. It's fast enough for now. Jul 10 05:23:38 scp keeps wavering between 80 and 220 KB/s to my mmc Jul 10 05:24:36 show us screenshots someday trevarthan Jul 10 06:10:58 Does anyone know, if I use the flasher to enable USB host mode on a 770, does that stick until I change it back, or is it only active for that boot? (IE you run flasher, power on and hold Home, flasher finishes, then you pull the cable and it boots) Jul 10 06:16:59 hi all Jul 10 06:17:22 is it possible to run maemo on windows xp using QEMU or other emulators Jul 10 06:25:21 there are vmware images available Jul 10 06:25:38 yes Jul 10 06:26:15 for real work you'll need a few gigs free Jul 10 06:34:54 thanks...i will surely try that Jul 10 07:26:23 i seem to have really weird problem with epic and this channel, topic overflows to textinput part of the screen.. Jul 10 07:42:05 Morning, all Jul 10 07:49:13 mornings Jul 10 08:20:05 hi there. Jul 10 08:26:41 good morning Jul 10 08:26:45 does anybody have a copy of the 12pt os2006 themes? they're not on the original site anymore, and I can't find a mirror. Jul 10 08:29:39 ah, nevermind, I found them. he moved them to maemo.lancode.de Jul 10 08:29:54 I have a couple 770's on it's way to me. And after reading a review I have a question for anoyne here who might have an answer. I see that the usb connection has host capabilities. Here in Norway we have a cdma based high speed internet avaiable thru a usb "modem" this modem works plug'n play in all major linux distributions right out of the box with wvdial (acts like a serialport modem). The modem is self powered (batterypack). Would it be possible to connect t Jul 10 08:29:54 his modem to the 770's usb port and with wvdial let the device get online that way? Jul 10 08:31:12 Ravn1: I think you'll need to provide power to the USB port of the 770 anyways? Jul 10 08:34:42 Veggen: Well, even so. If I get that port sorted, will the 770 be able to use a serialport modem to get online? I guess thats the way bluetooth works? Or am I totaly wrong here? (As I said I have not yet gotten the device, and my experience is with real linux) Jul 10 08:36:07 Ravn1: Well. You'll definitely get it to work, but you might need to mess around with dummy connections etc. to make the device believe it's actually online ;) Jul 10 08:38:32 worth a try then. Fortunally the provider have a routerbox that you just power on and it then sets up a wlan where it shares the cdma connection, but thats a bit bigger box, and does not have a battery Jul 10 08:46:40 even though the connection is different, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/bluetoothnetworkingandconnectionmanager/ might help you with the fake connection type thing. Jul 10 08:54:43 Thanks Jul 10 08:55:38 would be great since 3g/edge prices are crazy Jul 10 09:55:21 hi All Jul 10 09:58:37 help me please install xterm into my nokia n800 Jul 10 10:02:27 go to http://maemo-hackers.org/osso-xterm.install with the browser Jul 10 10:19:23 Anyone here know much about game emulators? Specifically, what kinds of audio formats do they use (with an eye to what would make a useful DSP-sink task)? Jul 10 10:19:42 In fact not just game emulators, games too. Jul 10 10:19:50 pupnik Jul 10 10:20:26 he deals with game emu's Jul 10 10:20:39 thanks Jul 10 10:20:42 pupnik: ping Jul 10 10:21:20 he's probably campaigning for ron paul...lol Jul 10 10:21:38 i know what will get his attention... Jul 10 10:21:47 RON PAUL SUCKS... Jul 10 10:22:10 <--- prepares for shock Jul 10 10:22:34 any idea what 'WPA pre-shared key' versus WPA with EAP translates to on a Linksys router - totally different it seems Jul 10 10:23:24 WPA-Personal with TKIP or AES <- that is my guess Jul 10 10:23:26 pre-shared is recommended... Jul 10 10:23:59 AES correct Jul 10 10:24:37 WPA2, PSK and PSK2 all not supported by N800 I guess Jul 10 10:24:45 those are the other options on my router Jul 10 10:24:54 using wpa2 Jul 10 10:24:57 it supported.. Jul 10 10:25:00 N800 Jul 10 10:25:34 hmm. rather stupid that it is called WPA then in the N800 menu not WPA2 Jul 10 10:28:34 hmmmm Jul 10 10:28:37 weird.. Jul 10 10:29:08 i'm got security set to wpa2 pre-shared key only TKIP+EAS Jul 10 10:29:26 my n800 connects to it... Jul 10 10:30:11 wpa2 is supported, i think Jul 10 10:31:31 guess it falls under wpa Jul 10 10:31:58 thats the setting i just used to configure connections on the N800 Jul 10 10:32:50 has to be supported...my router is set for that security mode... Jul 10 10:33:34 unless i just guess someone else using wpa with the same ssid name and password i'm using for my router... Jul 10 10:35:37 yup - works under wpa2 - there is even a setting in the advanced pane for 'wpa2 only mode' Jul 10 10:37:14 anybody seen the movie "Room 1408" Jul 10 10:37:22 worth seeing? Jul 10 10:37:32 I have seen the trailer... Jul 10 10:38:36 http://www.metacritic.com/film/titles/1408 Jul 10 10:58:30 Aloha! Jul 10 11:21:49 1 Jul 10 11:27:35 2 Jul 10 11:36:17 X-Fade, I think your "cancel-menu" -bug is fixed in sardine Jul 10 11:39:23 inz: Haven't had the time to test sardine yet. Jul 10 11:47:01 X-Fade, the "bora" version of HildonWindow (https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/hildon-libs/0.14.11-1/hildon-widgets/hildon-window.c) uses the "topmost" -signal to clear the timeout, but the sardine/chinook version (https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-1/src/hildon-window.c) uses "focus_out" Jul 10 11:47:18 X-Fade, and focus_out, is sent also when the menu opens (I think) Jul 10 11:48:37 inz: Yeah, they also had problems with clicks on a menu ending up in the application below the menu. Should be fixed now too. Jul 10 11:50:20 X-Fade, that sounds like a gtk, not hildon, problem Jul 10 11:50:47 X-Fade, but indeed, if the menu is closed on press, the release goes to whoever is underneath Jul 10 11:51:46 anyone knows how to use hcitool? Jul 10 11:52:11 what's the bluetooth device name it expects? Jul 10 11:52:19 (on N800) Jul 10 11:52:23 inz: I'll have to test it in Sardine. Did you try the boot menu with the new image yet? Jul 10 11:53:52 Ah 4.2007 is already supported.. Jul 10 12:00:56 X-Fade, never used it, I keep flashing my device every 1-3 days anyway =) Jul 10 12:04:42 Hehe, well system on MMC gives a really nice speedup too. Jul 10 12:07:57 mm, btw - what's wrong with internet streams in media player, in 4.2007? Jul 10 12:08:24 (okok - I'll go read ITT too ;) Jul 10 12:10:57 Ah crap, tried to install the real tar which failed half way. And now my apt is f*xored.. Jul 10 12:11:24 Semi installed tar which doesn't want to be removed anymore. Jul 10 12:12:06 X-Fade: mmm, I guess you can fix it manually. Jul 10 12:12:45 Just make /bin/tar a symlink to busybox, manually. Jul 10 12:12:55 then remove the faulty package. Jul 10 12:13:14 Veggen: Well, that is not the problem. Apt keeps insisting on apt-get -f install.. Jul 10 12:13:44 X-Fade: hmm. Try with remaking the symlink, *then* apt-get -f install ? Jul 10 12:13:58 Which fails due to the broken package not having a post-installion script. Jul 10 12:14:21 tar works just fine btw ;) Jul 10 12:14:22 mmh, there's most often a way to fix things :) Jul 10 12:15:24 Yeah, it thinks the tar package is installed, but it isn't. So uninstalling doesn't work.. Jul 10 12:17:57 Ah, nevermind.. I broke busybox itself.. Game over.. Jul 10 12:23:28 :-) Jul 10 13:17:01 hi robtaylor Jul 10 13:33:54 does the n800 video call use some esoteric ports? Jul 10 14:50:11 <_Shurik_> Ahhh, tablet users. I feel home Jul 10 14:54:17 * _Shurik_ can't find comfortable position for Nokia's earbuds Jul 10 14:57:24 _Shurik_: I suggest putting 1 bud in each ear Jul 10 14:57:42 <_Shurik_> :-D Jul 10 14:57:53 <_Shurik_> I'm just used to Koss Earbuds Jul 10 14:58:05 <_Shurik_> these are redunculous Jul 10 15:00:58 ~/last shurik Jul 10 15:01:11 dooh Jul 10 15:01:22 <_Shurik_> ? Jul 10 15:01:54 I was trying to find out why one bud per ear :P Jul 10 15:02:13 <_Shurik_> [10:54] * _Shurik_ can't find comfortable position for Nokia's earbuds Jul 10 15:02:29 oh Jul 10 15:02:55 <_Shurik_> just don't like them that much Jul 10 15:03:14 <_Shurik_> although it's interesting how ear adjusts to lack of certain frequency in a while Jul 10 15:44:34 I have a gcc/g++ related compiling question Jul 10 15:45:04 how can I make sure all symbols I include within a particular .h header file are included into the resulting object file? Jul 10 15:45:51 eh? header files are only prototypes so the compiler knows you're calling functions w/ the proper parameters Jul 10 15:46:06 hmm Jul 10 15:46:41 if it links, then all the symbols which were used in the code were present in the objects Jul 10 15:47:21 oh, I checked the symbols with "nm main.o" and not the actual program "main" Jul 10 15:50:20 great, all the callback functions can be found in the linked program. I thought the compiler was supposed to remove them from the symbol table if they aren't used anywhere (and they aren't) Jul 10 15:54:02 how much (if any) difference is there between debian-armel and maeomo-bora packages? Jul 10 15:54:22 is it safe to install debian-armel stuff on bora? Jul 10 15:55:44 most of the stuff I need is in debian armel already and I'm wondering if there is any point in rebuilding things in scratchbox Jul 10 15:56:44 <_Shurik_> seems like you would still need to rebuild, but I'm no expert Jul 10 15:58:10 I've got a bunch of stuff running already with out any rebuilds Jul 10 15:58:18 I think they should work, but the dependancies might give you hell. Maemo is not Debian after all (just uses the same package management tools). Jul 10 16:01:30 I've avoided apt-get installing up to now, I've just unpacked stuff into a subdir Jul 10 16:02:17 If size is not an issue, you could just get the armel rootfs and run that in a chroot ;) Jul 10 16:02:48 I was doing that already, but it's a bit of a waste of space Jul 10 16:02:57 Yeah Jul 10 16:03:19 and it's a pain to change to a chroot just to run an tool or two Jul 10 16:05:52 How's Hacker? Jul 10 16:08:00 command line stuff from debian-armel always worked fine for me, as long as I satisfied the deps (mostly fdisk and mkfs) Jul 10 16:14:00 hehe unique311 :) noo ... lardman, not an easy task! Jul 10 16:15:18 lardman: game consoles mostly use either sample playback or FM synthesis or both Jul 10 16:28:55 pupnik: I was composing an email giving some possible targets for the DSP Jul 10 16:29:32 i only remember early DSPs. limited instruction lenghts and branching. Jul 10 16:30:10 I'm of the opinon that it's sat there so it may as well do something (and use more power of course) Jul 10 16:30:18 regardless, you'd end up making a dsp sink for only SNES, or GBA, or Genesis, or NES - nothing transferrable Jul 10 16:30:23 yes yes! :) Jul 10 16:30:32 yes, I assumed that would be the case Jul 10 16:31:07 i haven't learned how to do profiling on the tablets yet Jul 10 16:31:09 I also imagine there's an inverse relationship between implementation difficulty and speed gains to be made Jul 10 16:31:39 When you say profiling, do you mean of how fast a game/emu is running? Jul 10 16:31:51 how much time is spent on various subroutines Jul 10 16:32:01 ah, I see Jul 10 16:32:39 from what i read gprof isn't so accurate. i think someone built an oprof kernel for the tablet Jul 10 16:33:34 yes I saw that Jul 10 16:33:37 you can always do it manually of course Jul 10 16:34:17 I simply assumed that if a program was running a bit slowly, then offloading some task onto the DSP may make some difference Jul 10 16:34:39 What would be more interesting is to see whether the dsp can be made to work faster than the ARM Jul 10 16:34:51 for something that's slow, like jpeg processing Jul 10 16:39:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_music Jul 10 16:39:21 I found that after I asked the question, thanks though Jul 10 16:40:07 yeah... the sample-playback shouldn't be impossible to do Jul 10 16:40:20 wonder how the dsp accesses main memory Jul 10 16:40:24 unless there's no way of performing sound output.... Jul 10 16:40:37 fed with a fifo or dma ? Jul 10 16:40:42 pupnik: You can pass blocks of memory, or map parts of main memory Jul 10 16:40:47 fifo Jul 10 16:41:14 dma for the mapped memory (I assume) Jul 10 16:42:08 8 channels of 16-bit pcm at 22khz would be 352800 kB/s Jul 10 16:42:17 s/kB/B/ Jul 10 16:42:17 pupnik meant: 8 channels of 16-bit pcm at 22khz would be 352800 B/s Jul 10 16:42:40 But the data would be compressed presumably? Jul 10 16:42:45 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch Jul 10 16:42:47 And the DSP would do the decompression Jul 10 16:43:18 true, if you needed to pass the data back so it could be output, that would be a pita Jul 10 16:44:27 * lardman heads home to work out why is G.711 task isn't behaving Jul 10 16:44:36 s/is/his/ Jul 10 16:44:40 i am sure it's compressed on the cartridge. whether it stays that way in RAM i dunno Jul 10 16:45:08 http://slack.net/~ant/libs/audio.html ahh the SNES format is called SPC Jul 10 16:45:11 My thought was to remove the decompression and output step completely, but that requires the ability to output audio from the dsp Jul 10 16:45:19 hence my email Jul 10 16:45:23 anyway, see you chaps tomorrow Jul 10 16:45:25 ah Jul 10 16:45:27 ok cheers Jul 10 16:58:42 disq: quick question: why is it necessary to put now_playing() and now_stopped() in mplayer.py? Why can't those live in playlist.py? Jul 10 17:04:38 trevarthan: i'm also calling now_stopped on seek and close Jul 10 17:06:26 ok, I see. I'm going to merge your patch, but I definitely need to take care of the ISMAEMO issue first. Jul 10 17:07:14 okay :) btw have you tried optimizing the loading songs screen yet? it's so slow Jul 10 17:08:18 Hey, any progress on backporting the latest 2007 changes to Hacker? Jul 10 17:08:48 disq: I optimized it last night. Is it still slow? Jul 10 17:08:53 to get rid of the now_stopped() call in mplayer.py you could add callbacks for seek and close in playlist.py but i think that wouldn't be a better approach Jul 10 17:09:07 i didn't checkout the latest Jul 10 17:09:26 it's still the kagu-dist-20070709.tar.gz code here :) Jul 10 17:10:11 disq: Yeah, check out the new version. It's much faster. Regarding playlist.py, I was thinking the same thing. playlist.py is sort of the abstraction layer for mplayer.py. I'll be adding a gstreamer.py in the near future too for win32 and non-a2dp playback on maemo/linux. Jul 10 17:11:02 disq: here's the commit that sped it up: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/125 Jul 10 17:16:38 Starting mplayer takes some time. After that it's pretty fast. Once gstreamer.py is working this will no longer be an issue unless you're using a2dp. Even then it can still be sped up a good bit. :) Jul 10 17:17:21 :) Jul 10 17:17:33 hey! Jul 10 17:17:38 hey Jul 10 17:17:38 disq! :D Jul 10 17:17:42 maddler! Jul 10 17:17:45 my favourite blogger! Jul 10 17:17:46 hahaha Jul 10 17:18:06 tell me about it :P Jul 10 17:18:17 I saw your wonderful blog on MaemoPeople.org! Jul 10 17:18:24 hahahaha Jul 10 17:20:15 disq: what happens if that osso call runs but maemoscrobbler isn't installed? Should I run which('maemoscrobbler') before I decide to use it? Jul 10 17:21:14 nothing should happen Jul 10 17:21:34 ok. no harm then. thanks. Jul 10 17:21:55 any thoughts between this http://www.screenguardz.com/misc/nokia-n800 and this http://www.screenguardzhd.com/misc/nokia-n800 ? Jul 10 17:25:33 mmm psion netbook pros now getting cheaper. Might be fun to try to port IT2007 to it :P.... I think people have written linux kernel drivers for it Jul 10 17:30:03 derf: do you think the acmonitor package install should add the extended backlight timeouts (via shell script?) Jul 10 17:31:54 I mean, it could, obviously. Uninstalling them might be trickier. Jul 10 17:32:38 trevarthan: the beauty of dbus is, if the app receiving the message is not running, dbus starts it. so, i have no init.d scripts or such in the maemoscrobbler package. when needed, they're launched automatically Jul 10 17:33:55 that's certainly nice. I'm going to learn more about dbus. I've been hearing a lot about it recently. Jul 10 17:35:31 dbus itself is not that simple (I once tried to read the docs but there are lots of them) but libosso really makes it very easy Jul 10 17:35:34 most people aren't going to set-up the extended timeouts via shell. i think setting them back in the removal script would be just as easy Jul 10 17:37:37 i also added a "quit" dbus call, when received the daemons quit. i call that from postrm and postinst. (when upgraded, the new binaries won't run until you kill off the old ones) Jul 10 17:38:44 are either the n770 or n800 capable of playing normal 350mb=1hr xvid files without transcoding? Jul 10 17:39:11 depends on resolution Jul 10 17:39:19 and, if not, is there anything that warrants spending twice as much on an n800 after the price cuts? Jul 10 17:39:48 xvid isn't a problem with mplayer, but on 770 i need to transcode to ***x240 resolution Jul 10 17:39:51 pupnik: something like this: VIDEO: [XVID] 624x352 12bpp 23.976 fps 979.1 kbps (119.5 kbyte/s) Jul 10 17:39:59 ok Jul 10 17:40:09 but they generally play without a hitch on the 800? Jul 10 17:40:17 there are threads about higher res on the n800... Jul 10 17:40:50 been digging around and have been having a hard time finding much meaningful coverage of the difference - sorry if this is an old question Jul 10 17:40:55 use mplayer, nokia, n800, video, frames etc as search terms Jul 10 17:41:23 most of the discussion revolves around recent mplayer speedups and framebuffer bandwidth Jul 10 17:41:38 is there anything other than video playback that makes the cost difference worth while? (I'm aware of the VOIP support, but I wouldn't use it, and the radio isn't that big a deal) Jul 10 17:41:49 N800 has twice the RAM, twice the internal flash, and a faster processor. Jul 10 17:42:39 but from a practical perspective, do the web browser and other conventional apps benefit much from it? Jul 10 17:42:59 Well, the RAM is a big difference just in terms of the number of things you can open up at once. Jul 10 17:43:30 And most of the applications are installed on the internal flash, so that also makes a big difference in terms of how many programs you can load on the thing. Jul 10 17:43:32 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back. Jul 10 17:44:03 my general rule of thumb is wait at least two generations before upgrading Jul 10 17:44:47 pupnik: maybe you just need to play with an n800. :) Jul 10 17:49:30 disq: is there documentation for the osso python module? Jul 10 17:50:30 nm. I found it: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/apis/3-x/python-maemo-3.x/ Jul 10 17:50:39 trevarthan, there are some links here: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/index.html#documentation Jul 10 17:50:57 trevarthan, pymaemo webpage has some osso-examples too Jul 10 17:51:00 trevarthan: there's also http://maemo.org/community/wiki/DBusGuide Jul 10 18:18:11 pupnik: Psion had a Linux version for it which never made it to market. Where are you seeing them get cheaper? Although, it'd have to be damned cheap to undercut an Asus Eee Jul 10 18:21:04 they are still overpriced Jaffe - one on ebay for 240 euro now Jul 10 18:21:15 i was using linux on the psion netbook (not pro)... fluxbox, vnc, ssh, etc Jul 10 18:22:40 WOW i didn't know about the asus Eee Jul 10 18:23:41 <||cw> MrZaius: 200Mhz is awfully slow, especialy with no FPU. n800 is 400Mhz and has an FPU Jul 10 18:25:11 <_Shurik_> n800 400? Jul 10 18:27:00 ||cw: might as well quote bogomips Jul 10 18:27:11 <_Shurik_> I thought it was 330 Jul 10 18:27:34 Processor : ARM926EJ-Sid(wb) rev 3 (v5l) Jul 10 18:27:34 BogoMIPS : 125.76 Jul 10 18:29:02 N800 BogoMIPS : 320.37 Jul 10 18:29:21 <||cw> _Shurik_: ah, right, 320. not sure why I thought it was double too Jul 10 18:29:43 maybe because it feels like double with all the other improvements (like fpu, bigger cache, more ram, etc) Jul 10 18:29:51 <_Shurik_> hehe Jul 10 18:31:57 <_Shurik_> Eee is a freaking laptop Jul 10 18:32:17 <||cw> anyone know that dekstop the Eee uses in the "easy"? http://www.hothardware.com/articles/Hands_on_with_the_ASUS_Eee/?page=2 Jul 10 18:32:25 <||cw> expert is certainly KDE Jul 10 18:33:00 i can bet that the Eee will 2x $199 - or about 300 euro in europe Jul 10 18:34:18 Still 300EUR is a bit of a bargain Jul 10 18:34:18 <||cw> that article mentions NT$10, what's NT Jul 10 18:34:27 ||cw: I guess it's something from scratch. Jul 10 18:35:01 <||cw> makes me wonder if that is $199 US Jul 10 18:41:09 ok the Netbooks are museum pieces now, with this Asus Eee Jul 10 18:41:40 the Flybooks will have incredible price pressure Jul 10 18:51:41 <||cw> http://www.eeeuser.com/ is saying £199, which would be about $400 USD Jul 10 18:52:06 <_Shurik_> BJs are 2 bucks a piece now? Jul 10 18:52:24 <_Shurik_> why did I have to get married :( Jul 10 19:23:49 wow, a lot of people here :) Jul 10 19:24:23 was wondering if someone might be able to help a new 770 user who honestly tried their best to find find their solution on the web.... Jul 10 19:24:47 ask away Jul 10 19:26:18 disq: thanks! I just got my 770, and everything seems to be ok - I was able to connect to both my phone and the wifi network here. However, whenever I try to bring up the web browser, whether through "open new web browser window" or by going to a book mark, I get "Web - blank" at the top briefly, then it closes and takes me back to "Home". Has anyone else seen this behavior? Jul 10 19:27:01 mbjohn: hmm, are you running the latest OS 2006 release? Jul 10 19:27:17 Sounds like the web browser is dying, or being killed (the latter possibly if it's out of memory) Jul 10 19:27:21 jaffa: I believe so... Jul 10 19:27:29 er, to the latest release Jul 10 19:28:17 version 2.2006.39-14 Jul 10 19:28:44 mm. never happened to me but possibly a memory issue Jul 10 19:29:02 Nope, there's OS 2006 Edition version 3.2006.49-2 on http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ Jul 10 19:29:18 There's also the OS 2007 Hacker Edition, but I'd get started with OS 2006 properly first. Jul 10 19:29:29 clicking on memory, it says I only have 11% used Jul 10 19:29:48 i recommend you enable swap (in control panel - memory) btw, the 770's memory is really one of the two bottlenecks (the other one being the cpu) Jul 10 19:30:03 mbjohn: that's talking about storage. RAM is different. Jul 10 19:30:43 disq: cool, thanks, doing now Jul 10 19:30:48 Jaffa: ah, didn't think of that Jul 10 19:30:58 but I haven't really done anything else with it Jul 10 19:31:11 (to drive up the mem usage) Jul 10 19:31:13 mbjohn: Can't do any harm to upgrade, and worth doing the upgrade before you install too much. Jul 10 19:31:29 Jaffa: true...unfortunately, no windows computer :( Jul 10 19:32:12 there are also linux and osx flashers available Jul 10 19:32:19 disq: oooh, really? Jul 10 19:32:31 I'd read of the windows one Jul 10 19:32:50 but not sure about the URLs. it's probably somewhere at maemo.org or tablets-dev. anybody? Jul 10 19:32:54 mbjohn: both linked to from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ . There's also 0xFFFF which is an open source reverse engineered one (used it today to no ill-effect) Jul 10 19:33:10 disq: they're mentioned on the front page :) Jul 10 19:33:18 Disq, Jaffa: thank you both very much! Jul 10 19:33:39 I'm pretty excited bout my 770 - have y'all enjoyed it? Jul 10 19:33:42 nps Jul 10 19:33:53 Yeah, the 770 was great. N800 is good too, now. Jul 10 19:33:59 <_Shurik_> not me :( I went straight for n800 Jul 10 19:33:59 Jaffa: ok then :p did you check out maemoscrobbler, or do you like last.fm? Jul 10 19:34:38 wow, it does appear that memory was an issue. I was just able to open the browser successfully. Wonder why that was right out of the box? Jul 10 19:34:40 disq: never used last.fm Jul 10 19:38:41 does anyone know if N800 802.11 supports APSD? Jul 10 19:40:45 not sure about apsd (just looked it up on wikipedia :p ) but it has some power saving timeouts built in, turns off parts of the radio after a few miliseconds of the last packet, etc Jul 10 19:45:43 ok, I'm about to flash this thing - what are the chances I'm going to make it a brick? :) Jul 10 19:45:49 I can't put down another $139 Jul 10 19:46:47 permanently bricking is very rare Jul 10 19:47:11 if something happens during flash you can always reflash it Jul 10 19:47:38 ok, cool - I've flashed many a toy in my life, but this is by far the nicest I've had Jul 10 19:47:50 um, and the only one I paid for Jul 10 19:48:01 ok, not true, bought the Agenda when it first came out Jul 10 19:56:04 sweet - had no problems flashing, and had no problems with my web browser starting after that. Thanks so much for your help! Jul 10 19:56:20 great Jul 10 19:59:42 * pupnik sacrifices a chicken to Nokia in prayer that the next tablet will have usable dpad and right hand side buttons Jul 10 20:00:12 Jul 10 20:04:10 you can't use the dpad? Jul 10 20:04:17 not for fast action games Jul 10 20:04:17 do you have massive fingers? Jul 10 20:04:42 also a proper rocker key for scrolling, or even a mini 5 way joystick. Jul 10 20:04:44 No, the d-pad just sucks. Jul 10 20:05:04 why don't you get a gp2x? Jul 10 20:05:18 i don't know if you could have a fast-action dpad with a central enter-key button Jul 10 20:05:36 might be doable if resistance on the center button was high, and resistance on the outer directions was low Jul 10 20:06:10 i don't like gp2x because it's big, heavy, has a low res non-touch screen, and iirc it doesn't have net connectivity unless you get sdio Jul 10 20:06:21 it's an open source psp without the wifi. Jul 10 20:06:43 yeah and it has a 2nd ARM cpu that hardly gets used for anything, iirc Jul 10 20:06:56 yeah... Jul 10 20:07:32 the low res isn't so bad for a gaming-only device. But like many people, i want a universal, open-source pocket device - hence 800x480 for the browsing and my choice of nokia Jul 10 20:07:50 i don't know if they've changed that at all...they may have gotten things using that for the graphics that it was intended Jul 10 20:08:23 there's one SNES emu that has the sound code running on the 2nd CPU but it's not functional as of last month Jul 10 20:08:39 SMP or non-smp? Jul 10 20:09:08 heh, non smp Jul 10 20:09:18 like the DS then Jul 10 20:09:24 same arm model? Jul 10 20:09:42 i dunno anything about the DS's hardware Jul 10 20:09:53 well I meant, are both CPUs the same Arm model Jul 10 20:09:57 CPU: 200MHz ARM920T host, 200MHz ARM940T Jul 10 20:10:05 the DS has an arm9 and an arm7 Jul 10 20:10:16 ah, see what you mean Jul 10 20:10:44 let's steer this conversation toward powervr and it's might if nokia were to pay for the damn license. Jul 10 20:10:57 hm, I don't know the difference between the 920 and 940 Jul 10 20:11:05 it's might? Jul 10 20:11:10 one as a MMU the other doesn't Jul 10 20:11:15 the n800 really impressed me with arm - I had never used it really before, but for such a low clock speed (probably combined with flash storage and small-memory apps) it sure outdoes my P3 700 laptop Jul 10 20:11:17 ^dragorn Jul 10 20:11:20 :) Jul 10 20:11:29 disq: from the postings on the list, it sounds like there isn't the bandwidth to the framebuffer to matter Jul 10 20:11:32 * megabyte405 now wants an arm desktop without going to britain Jul 10 20:11:39 suihkulokki: ahh, 'k Jul 10 20:11:58 suihkulokki: I assume the 920 host cpu has it and the 940 doesn't? Jul 10 20:12:30 megabyte405: there are bunch of additional facilities of the n800's cpu that are not in use, so it's not the full performance Jul 10 20:12:35 an arm desktop...what a strange idea, i don't think it would be particularly good for multithreaded apps Jul 10 20:14:23 dragorn: most likely Jul 10 20:14:41 dragorn: i'm not saying run full res doom 3 on it, accelerate the 2d ui (and if there are games, run them half-res) Jul 10 20:15:13 disq: yah, i know, but check the list posts, it sounds like the hw design crippled it severely Jul 10 20:15:27 i could be wrong Jul 10 20:16:57 they could fix it in the wimax version, but i doubt it. we'll be lucky if this problems doesn't exist in the n900 (the next device, not the wimax-enabled n800) because imho they didn't learn much from the 770. Jul 10 20:18:25 (developer device program was very nice, though) Jul 10 20:29:22 N770 is fast enough for strong bad email :P Jul 10 20:31:31 bad email or bad email handling? :P Jul 10 20:31:58 http://homestarrunner.com/sbemail.html <- safe for work, not safe for sanity (flash) Jul 10 20:32:20 how do I get my N800 to mount an ext3 SD automatically Jul 10 20:32:26 i hate how flash animations spike the cpu load Jul 10 20:32:30 it mounts fine manually (after loading the modules) Jul 10 20:32:39 disabling flash in opera really improves battery life Jul 10 20:33:20 neurocyte: add the insmod lines somewhere in init.d so they're loaded on startup Jul 10 20:34:11 my suggestion is /etc/init.d/ke-recv Jul 10 20:35:29 missed my 770, i'll boot it up and play with it a while Jul 10 20:37:19 hmm, why make an SD card ext3? Jul 10 20:38:20 Sulis, why not? Jul 10 20:38:20 Because FAT is god-awful? Jul 10 20:38:26 hi Jul 10 20:38:26 fat sucks Jul 10 20:38:47 i keep one card ext2 and the other fat32 Jul 10 20:39:25 i'm also feeling the urge to install sardine on one of the memory cards Jul 10 20:48:35 i have a question Jul 10 20:49:27 Thinking of ordering an N800 does it allow you to set the MAC address? Jul 10 20:49:32 im using an n770 and im not able to install some packages Jul 10 20:50:22 for example cgoban, because the xlibs package is not installabla and i dont know where to get it Jul 10 20:50:26 what's the command to run visual boy advance from xterm? (im assuming that's *the way* to run it?) Jul 10 20:50:45 alterego: you can "ifconfig hwaddr" but not sure if it actually registers Jul 10 20:51:03 Yes, I'm reading something about it on ITT Jul 10 20:51:11 ericz: try "vba" Jul 10 20:51:36 disq, thanks :) Jul 10 20:51:49 what are people using for address books and syncing? I am struggling with many revisions of vcard files Jul 10 20:51:54 Hmm .. Doesn't look like anyone answered >:( Jul 10 20:52:05 i think.. got to "Reading configuration file" hung for a sec, then "Killed" Jul 10 20:52:18 no idea, never used vba myself Jul 10 20:52:56 gpd: there are a few pim suites (GPE and some others) but never used them either :) Jul 10 20:54:03 I need a magic vcard diff and vcard split at the moment - no signs, guess i'll have to write myself Jul 10 20:54:36 the platform's not big on pim functionality, unfortunately Jul 10 20:54:41 Well, would someone like to try to set the HW MAC address of the wifi interface in their N800 and confirm it works? Jul 10 20:56:13 * pupnik has no n800 Jul 10 20:56:34 Does it work on the 770? Jul 10 20:57:11 dunno Jul 10 20:58:05 You don't have either? Jul 10 20:58:26 using the 770 right now, how would you set the mac? Jul 10 20:59:14 I got Jul 10 20:59:15 Nokia-N800-26:~# ifconfig wlan0 hw ether 00:01:02:03:04:05 up Jul 10 20:59:15 ifconfig: SIOCSIFHWADDR: Device or resource busy Jul 10 20:59:41 does it have iwconfig? Jul 10 20:59:43 ifconfig wlan0 down; ifconfig wlan0 hw ether 00:01:02:03:04:05; ifconfig wlan0 192.168.0.1 Jul 10 21:00:03 oh nm Jul 10 21:00:04 disq, you have to put the interface down first. Jul 10 21:00:11 no but you could install wireless-tools Jul 10 21:00:21 ah, i did it from remote xterm Jul 10 21:00:43 Not a good idea if you're ssh'ing via wireless ;) Jul 10 21:01:14 yeah Jul 10 21:01:43 Could you try it and confirm it's working by looking at your router or something. Jul 10 21:02:16 hang on Jul 10 21:03:54 are the n770 and n800 screens the same size? Jul 10 21:04:12 i got network connection error trying to connect from the ui Jul 10 21:04:32 will try a reboot Jul 10 21:04:45