**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jul 17 02:59:59 2007
Jul 17 03:01:03 <GeneralAntilles> Nope, what is it?
Jul 17 03:01:50 <pupnik> maemo-gtk-im-switch xim
Jul 17 03:02:07 <pupnik> i haven't found how to switch it back
Jul 17 03:03:06 <megabyte405> pupnik: presumably you need to find out the input method name for the virtual keyboard, to replace "xim" (X Input Method) with the appropriate hildon one
Jul 17 03:03:15 <megabyte405> does that help any?
Jul 17 03:04:37 <pupnik> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_setupkeyboard/
Jul 17 03:05:15 <pupnik> ~ $
Jul 17 03:05:16 <infobot> well, $ is a dollar sign
Jul 17 03:05:30 <pupnik>  maemo-gtk-im-switch osso-input-method
Jul 17 03:05:42 <pupnik> hmm now i have them both working
Jul 17 03:06:18 <pupnik> ah no it's exclusive
Jul 17 03:10:41 <megabyte405> pupnik: right
Jul 17 03:10:48 <megabyte405> you can only have one active input method at a time
Jul 17 03:10:52 <Luria> speaking of input, is there a transparency hack for the keyboard?
Jul 17 03:11:58 <GeneralAntilles> That would be SWEET
Jul 17 03:12:49 <Luria> hmmmm my n800 is somehow connecting to a wep encrypted ap
Jul 17 03:13:10 <megabyte405> Luria: without the key?  If it's "open system" it will connect but not get anywhere
Jul 17 03:13:19 <megabyte405> and will probably report that it has a "link-local IP address"
Jul 17 03:13:25 <Luria> no, nevermind
Jul 17 03:13:31 <Luria> two with the same ssid
Jul 17 03:14:14 <pupnik> if anyone's looking for a project, we could use a generic X keyboard that could be popped-up manually and generate x keyboard events... e.g. xvkbd
Jul 17 03:37:19 <Luria> how is the example code on the maemo tutorial  licensed?
Jul 17 03:37:37 <Luria> oh never mind, gfdl, i see
Jul 17 03:43:11 <rhsanborn> hrm, you cant run a vmware image without a gui?
Jul 17 03:43:42 <pupnik> correct
Jul 17 03:43:54 <rhsanborn> thats unfortunate
Jul 17 03:44:08 <rhsanborn> trying to run it remotely through ssh
Jul 17 03:50:57 <megabyte405> rhsanborn: get vmware server isntead of vmware player
Jul 17 03:51:20 <megabyte405> still lowercase free
Jul 17 03:51:49 <CountDown> Has anyone successfully used libusb on the N800 in USB host mode?
Jul 17 03:52:22 <CountDown> It worked fine on the 770, but I get a "file not found" sort of error on the N800.
Jul 17 03:55:37 <Xark> CountDown: Hello.  How are you connecting the USB device to the N800?  The "hub" method, or do you have a special cable?
Jul 17 03:56:20 <CountDown> Xark: I've hacked up a special cable that provides 5V from a 9V battery.
Jul 17 03:56:38 <CountDown> Xark: It's the same set up I used on the 770.
Jul 17 03:57:29 <CountDown> I've also enabled USB host mode through the flasher-3.0 program, just like on the 770.
Jul 17 03:57:31 <vertoo_> Noob question, why do you need any V there at all? Isn't it just a usb to an already powered device?
Jul 17 03:57:58 <CountDown> vertoo_: Most USB devices expect to be powered from the USB host.
Jul 17 03:58:17 <Xark> CountDown: Hmm.  Have you read that the flasher option works on the N800 (or is that what you are experimenting for)?
Jul 17 03:58:59 <CountDown> Xark: I thought I saw that somewhere.  Maybe I should double check.  :)
Jul 17 03:59:01 <Xark> CountDown: You are trying to access a USB flash drive?
Jul 17 03:59:33 <Xark> CountDown: Since I have read that the USB hardware is different, it seems likely that there might need to be a driver/kernel change.
Jul 17 03:59:33 <CountDown> Xark: I'm trying to access a custom microcontroller device.
Jul 17 04:00:00 <CountDown> Xark: What's the latest version of the flasher?
Jul 17 04:00:01 <Xark> CountDown: Neat.
Jul 17 04:00:45 <CountDown> vertoo_: Also, if the host isn't powered, some kernels won't connect to devices unless they detect power on the USB port.
Jul 17 04:00:51 <vertoo_> CountDown: I see, I've had problems with a few usb ports (esp on the front of cases with 6+ comming from factory) this is a nice work around for something like that where they can't support the power?
Jul 17 04:01:31 <CountDown> Xark: It was neat, until it stopped working!  :)
Jul 17 04:01:44 <Xark> CountDown: The flasher you are using is the Nokia official one?  If so, 3.0 appears to be the latest.
Jul 17 04:02:00 <CountDown> vertoo_: Could be a work around for that, yes.
Jul 17 04:02:46 <CountDown> Xark: Hmmm... the other differences are the versions of the software.
Jul 17 04:02:54 <CountDown> Oops, have to run.  I'll be back later.
Jul 17 04:02:58 * Xark used "init_flasher3.1" (IIRC) for the MMC boot mod.  That one appears to be a bit different (and non-official).
Jul 17 04:03:04 <Xark> CountDown: OK, Take it easy.
Jul 17 04:46:38 <vertoo_> anyone got a good windows XP/Mac OS X solution for streaming media over the internet to be accessed like a internet radio station?
Jul 17 04:46:57 <GeneralAntilles> Quicktime Streaming Server
Jul 17 04:47:01 <GeneralAntilles> If you can get your hands on it.
Jul 17 04:47:03 <vertoo_> I have a domain pointing at my ip address and a slim server set up on there, but it didn't work
Jul 17 04:47:05 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure of anything free, though.
Jul 17 04:47:12 <vertoo_> And the quicktime solution didn't fare well either
Jul 17 04:47:30 <vertoo_> The quicktime thing I found tried to stream through my mic
Jul 17 04:47:38 <vertoo_> which is pretty dumb
Jul 17 04:47:55 <vertoo_> it didn't have an option to stream files
Jul 17 04:48:15 <vertoo_> it seems that anti-piracy laws make this feet much more difficult
Jul 17 04:49:12 <pupnik> Re: SNES and speed: Transparency doesn't suck up all the speed, drawing all the background layers so it can find out what to make transparent does. Therefore, it can almost double the work of the gfx engine before it even gets to the "transparency" part (as the snes works by taking background layers and using a color subtraction or addition technique).  -Squidge
Jul 17 04:56:31 <vertoo_> GeneralAntilles: How do you get music onto your IT? (as in you personally)
Jul 17 04:57:00 <GeneralAntilles> Rhapsody and MP3
Jul 17 04:57:11 <GeneralAntilles> Just stick the SD card into the card reader and copy
Jul 17 04:57:11 <vertoo_> Does rhapsody cost?
Jul 17 04:57:15 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Jul 17 04:57:21 <vertoo_> Ya, I know how to move files
Jul 17 04:57:22 <GeneralAntilles> 12.99/mo or something
Jul 17 04:57:24 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Jul 17 04:57:24 <vertoo_> Eh,
Jul 17 04:57:31 <GeneralAntilles> It works for me
Jul 17 04:57:37 <vertoo_> I think I will pursue my idea of streaming music
Jul 17 04:57:42 <GeneralAntilles> I really like the standup stuff they have on there.
Jul 17 04:57:42 <vertoo_> I think I am getting close
Jul 17 04:57:45 <GeneralAntilles> iTunes 6
Jul 17 04:57:55 <GeneralAntilles> Or some reasonable UPnP solution
Jul 17 04:57:58 <vertoo_> but can I access that easily from anywhere?
Jul 17 04:58:03 <vertoo_> check this out
Jul 17 04:58:18 <vertoo_> http://woopacha.homelinux.com:9000
Jul 17 04:58:51 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, true.
Jul 17 04:58:56 <GeneralAntilles> How's your upstream bandwidth?
Jul 17 04:59:06 <vertoo_> fine
Jul 17 04:59:12 <vertoo_> I don't know a Mb count
Jul 17 04:59:21 <GeneralAntilles> What does squeeze stream as?
Jul 17 04:59:22 <vertoo_> but my downstream is at 6-8Mb
Jul 17 04:59:28 <vertoo_> mp3
Jul 17 04:59:32 <vertoo_> well
Jul 17 04:59:38 <GeneralAntilles> Does it work with the N800?
Jul 17 04:59:40 <vertoo_> it streams as the file type it finds
Jul 17 04:59:48 <vertoo_> but my library is all mp3
Jul 17 04:59:54 <vertoo_> so far it doesn't work at all
Jul 17 05:00:10 <vertoo_> Ive gotten so far as it "thinking" its playing
Jul 17 05:00:15 <GeneralAntilles> Nice library. :D
Jul 17 05:00:36 <vertoo_> but I have yet to get sound from it on my Mac, N800, windows, linux or a few other windows environments
Jul 17 05:00:45 <vertoo_> Thanks
Jul 17 05:01:48 <pupnik> here's the DrPocketSNES for Nokia 770 & 800 WIP.  Any questions just drop me a privmsg.  http://pupnik.de/DrPocketSnes_Nokia_The_Horror.tg
Jul 17 05:01:52 <pupnik> here's the DrPocketSNES for Nokia 770 & 800 WIP.  Any questions just drop me a privmsg.  http://pupnik.de/DrPocketSnes_Nokia_The_Horror.tgz
Jul 17 05:18:57 <pupnik> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=60519#post60519  DrPocketSnes / SNES Nokia 770 / 800 thread here
Jul 17 05:39:57 <bigkahuna> anyone know of a ported app like ettercap for the N800?
Jul 17 05:42:58 <pupnik> http://medialab.freaknet.org/~skler/ettercap_0.7.1.tar.gz
Jul 17 05:43:14 <pupnik> untar it on root tree. no GTK support only shell. I have one problem with iptables, can't initialize iptables table NAT see /etc/etter.conf. Run it with --unoffensive tag for resolve iptables error.
Jul 17 05:47:51 <bigkahuna> tried it... no luck
Jul 17 05:50:03 <bigkahuna> think it has something todo with libnet
Jul 17 06:11:35 <bigkahuna> ..........
Jul 17 06:59:46 <CountDown> So, according to http://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/ it is possible to use the N800 in USB host mode, but it requires a kernel patch.  Has anyone successfully tried this?
Jul 17 07:00:53 <CountDown> Also, there is mention of the N800 USB chipset providing up to 100mA at 5V.  This would be a big improvement.  Has anyone verified this?
Jul 17 07:05:01 <CountDown> Xark: Have you had any luck recompiling the kernel using the GCC toolchain on the N800?
Jul 17 07:09:42 <Xark> CoutDown: I haven't tried recompiling the kernel yet.  Haven't really felt a need so far.
Jul 17 07:11:02 <CountDown> Xark: I'll probably be feeling the need real soon, but I might set up the scratchbox dev environment instead.
Jul 17 07:11:13 <Xark> CountDown: One thing I have found is that my unit isn't 100% reliable.  I notice that some of the Internal compiler errors I was experiencing are intermittant (I can try "make" again and it will work).  So I suspect either hardware problems or some kind of software corruption.
Jul 17 07:11:59 <Xark> CountDown: I am wondering if you have seen any "flakey" behavior like that.
Jul 17 07:12:42 <Xark> CountDown: Since I had similar problems when running from jffs, I don't suspect my MMC fs as the cause.
Jul 17 07:13:12 <Xark> CountDown: What features are you missing in the stock kernel?
Jul 17 07:13:22 <Xark> CountDown: USB stuff?
Jul 17 07:15:04 <CountDown> Xark: I haven't noticed anything flakey, but I only needed GCC to compile a single library and probably won't be using it again soon.
Jul 17 07:15:55 <CountDown> Xark: I need to add a patch to the stock kernel so that USB host mode can be enabled.
Jul 17 07:16:45 <CountDown> What I was hoping to be a one day effort looks like it will take closer to a week.
Jul 17 07:16:51 <Xark> CountDown: Yeah, I haven't really noticed much else but gcc "randomly" die (not to say I haven't seen apps crash...).
Jul 17 07:17:56 <Veggen> Hmm. USB host mode on N800 is sort of interesting. I'd like to use it as a field upload device for my camera.
Jul 17 07:18:09 <Xark> CountDown: You are trying to get your N800 to where you already had your N770 (with respect to your device)?
Jul 17 07:18:38 <Veggen> (when on scout trips, for example. Parents like that, seeing what their kids do)
Jul 17 07:19:12 <CountDown> Xark: Yeah, that's what really gets me about this... it was working so well with the 770.
Jul 17 07:19:23 <Xark> Veggen: That would be pretty handy.  Or more songs in the field for your DAP. :)
Jul 17 07:19:48 <Veggen> Xark: oh, I'd probably rather use the N800 for DAP ;)
Jul 17 07:19:56 <CountDown> Veggen: I'm really surprised it's not in the stock kernel.
Jul 17 07:20:12 <Veggen> CD: yes, it's rather annoying
Jul 17 07:20:42 <Veggen> They should also - at least as an add-on - provide a hub/cables that actually provided the N800s port with power.
Jul 17 07:21:38 <Xark> CountDown: At least there seems to be pretty good doc for rebuilding the kernel (unlike rebuilding the toolchain). :-)
Jul 17 07:21:41 <Veggen> but, I think there's the business people, not the geeks, that decides what'll be in the stock install.
Jul 17 07:21:49 <Veggen> looks definitely like t.
Jul 17 07:22:25 <CountDown> Veggen: Ha!  I don't think business folk even know what a kernel is.
Jul 17 07:22:46 <CountDown> Veggen: My guess is that the new chipset posed problems that they didn't have time to address.
Jul 17 07:23:12 <Veggen> CD: oh, they'll need the input from the geeks. But pick random features that the geek tell them they can have, based on buzzwords?
Jul 17 07:23:19 <CountDown> Xark: Which doc are you referring to?
Jul 17 07:23:30 <Veggen> CD: could also be an explanation ;)
Jul 17 07:23:33 <Xark> CountDown: I think there was a wiki page on rebuilding the kernel.
Jul 17 07:23:39 <CountDown> Veggen: True.
Jul 17 07:23:59 <CountDown> Xark: Thanks, I'll take a look.
Jul 17 07:24:47 <Xark> CountDown: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_kernel_guide_bora.html
Jul 17 07:25:19 <CountDown> Xark: Ah, great.  Thanks.
Jul 17 07:32:33 <guardian> morning maemo
Jul 17 07:37:59 <pupnik> hi
Jul 17 07:38:22 <mk8> Hi to all
Jul 17 07:38:48 <pupnik> heya
Jul 17 07:40:12 <pupnik> haven't found anyone to pick-up the pocketsnes project
Jul 17 07:48:38 <sbaturzio> Aloha!
Jul 17 07:48:55 <pupnik> muh
Jul 17 08:11:26 * pupnik wonders how ARM9 bogomips match-up to x86 bogomips
Jul 17 08:15:04 <saiam> should telepathy-modules work work right away with the N800 voip application after they've been compiled and installed?
Jul 17 08:15:44 <saiam> is there any more documentation of the Mission Control? (or is it even essential to know anything about it)
Jul 17 08:17:58 <pupnik> what are you talking about
Jul 17 08:21:01 <saiam> if I compile some telepathy-module (eq. telepathy-sofiasip) and install it
Jul 17 08:21:16 <saiam> what will I have to do to get support for it into the UI?
Jul 17 08:23:13 <saiam> IT OS 2007 IM and VoIP applications use Telepathy right? So you should just be able to compile your own telepathy component for some protocol and use it? Of course it probably isn't so straightforward.
Jul 17 08:23:20 <pupnik> ah
Jul 17 08:23:43 <pupnik> google search and maemo-developers list
Jul 17 08:25:04 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jul 17 08:30:36 <lardman> morning
Jul 17 08:35:05 <jani> morning ..
Jul 17 08:37:15 <lardman> pupnik: You've seen the table here: http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?bogomips.html ?
Jul 17 08:37:26 <lardman> pupnik: What does the N800 say at boot?
Jul 17 08:38:07 <pupnik> i remember n800 being around 300 bogomips.  the n770 reports about 125
Jul 17 08:38:25 <pupnik> equivalent to about a 75mhz pentium
Jul 17 08:38:37 <lardman> hmm
Jul 17 08:38:46 <pupnik> cat /proc/cpuinfo for details
Jul 17 08:39:02 <lardman> you might be better running a benchmarking program than comparing bogomips
Jul 17 08:39:10 <lardman> risc vs cisc etc
Jul 17 08:39:20 <pupnik> yeah
Jul 17 08:39:36 <Xark> pupnik: Feels close to a 486-100 or so to me. :)
Jul 17 08:39:44 <lardman> pupnik: some random ones here: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/
Jul 17 08:40:15 <lardman> pupnik: Standard tests, so you should be able to compare against lists on the 'net, or compile them and run on x86
Jul 17 08:43:13 <lardman> And for a more general comparison against a pentium-90 and an amd k6/233: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006382.html
Jul 17 08:43:39 <pupnik> oh thanks - saves me time ty ty
Jul 17 08:43:46 <lardman> ignore the n800 results on that page, I linked against a softfloat libm, hardfloat results here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006460.html
Jul 17 08:45:03 <lardman> last but not least, a table of those resutls for different embedded processors: http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks
Jul 17 08:46:02 <matmo> hi, is the N770 a good buy at £70 and can it be updated to IT2007? I'm new to these things.
Jul 17 08:48:24 <lardman> matmo: 70GBP?
Jul 17 08:48:32 <pupnik> IT2007 is unsupported on the N770.
Jul 17 08:48:47 <matmo> lardman: yep, on play.com
Jul 17 08:48:53 <lardman> matmo: There's a thing called hacker edition, which attempts to bring some 2007 components to the 770
Jul 17 08:49:37 <lardman> matmo: But you should accept that you need to be happy with it2006, or like hacking, or like being frustrated
Jul 17 08:49:46 <matmo> ok, mainly I want to browse my own web server from another room (securely) - good for that?
Jul 17 08:50:19 <lardman> matmo: Yes, certainly. My 770 now sits on my coffee table and is used for web browsing while I'm in front of the TV
Jul 17 08:50:34 <matmo> and £70 is a good price?
Jul 17 08:50:45 <matmo> (about to place an order ;-)
Jul 17 08:50:49 <pupnik> i paid 330 euro and was insanely happy
Jul 17 08:50:55 <pupnik> depends on your usage
Jul 17 08:51:04 <Okko> What was that stuff about Maemo 4.0?
Jul 17 08:51:05 <cbx33> does vlc work on it os 2007
Jul 17 08:51:23 <Okko> Does it mean N800 will get a OS 2008 or that there will be N810 and N800 is down to hacker edition soon as well?
Jul 17 08:52:17 <lardman> Okko: Depends on how long it takes for the next one to come out
Jul 17 08:52:50 <lardman> Okko: and whether Nokia want to invest the time, whether the chipset is the same (if they used an omap2420 the work would be reduced I imagine), etc.
Jul 17 08:53:57 <wumpus> I don't think the N800 series is something they will release a new model of that soon
Jul 17 08:54:37 <wumpus> but that's just a gut feeling, it's kind of a side project and they don't want to put too much development costs into new models
Jul 17 08:55:03 <lardman> It would be interesting to know how many units they have sold
Jul 17 08:55:21 <matmo> gulp, ordered one, hope I don't regret it, lol. Thanks for the answers
Jul 17 08:55:43 <wumpus> indeed
Jul 17 08:56:10 <lardman> matmo: You won't, it's a cool device
Jul 17 08:56:25 <wumpus> yeah very cool
Jul 17 08:56:31 <matmo> great
Jul 17 08:56:41 <cbx33> the n800 rocks
Jul 17 08:57:09 <lardman> cbx33: Oh yes, but it's not 70GBP
Jul 17 08:58:07 <cbx33> so anyone know about vlc?
Jul 17 08:58:20 <cbx33> i heard v4l is ok for the n800
Jul 17 08:58:38 * pupnik snuffles at the OMAP3430
Jul 17 08:58:43 <cbx33> i wanted to stream data from the camera over the net
Jul 17 09:03:20 <pupnik> It looks like the TI Omap 3420/3430 IVA2+ accelerator will encode/decode h.264 at a max res of 720x480.
Jul 17 09:03:39 <pupnik> perfect match for the tablets
Jul 17 09:05:49 <inz> they're missing 80 pixels in width
Jul 17 09:07:04 <matmo> ok I'm off but I'll be back when I get it (sometime after the 20th). See ya!
Jul 17 09:07:15 <pupnik> enjoy matmo
Jul 17 09:07:19 <matmo> ty
Jul 17 09:22:50 <cy-> sup
Jul 17 09:36:29 <pupnik> http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/imagine_3d_benchmark_trooper.jpg  pic of 3d benchmark running on the N800 omap 2420
Jul 17 09:36:58 <pupnik> (!)
Jul 17 09:42:02 <wumpus> I suppose it's with a reason it doesn't show fps
Jul 17 09:44:32 <alterego> The OMAP2420 has a pretty nifty 3D accelerator chip.
Jul 17 09:45:15 <alterego> The OMAP2420 is used in the iPhone and the Nokia N95, which both take advantage of the graphics acceleration. Shame the N800 doesn't.
Jul 17 09:45:29 <alterego> SDL + OpenGL ES would be funky :D
Jul 17 09:46:03 <pupnik> hmm a number of videos on youtube showing off the OMAP 2420 3d on the nokia n95 phone
Jul 17 09:46:09 <Veggen> yay for iphone.
Jul 17 09:46:44 <pupnik> looks good enough to be not-useless
Jul 17 09:46:52 <Veggen> Seems that an iphone will do about 18k requests a second, or 10 Mbps bandwith, while on a wifi network.
Jul 17 09:47:10 <Veggen> pupnik: That was a sarcastic "yay" :)
Jul 17 09:47:38 <jani> http://duggmirror.com/apple/The_iPhone_is_a_piece_of_shit_and_so_is_your_face/?u=iphone  =)
Jul 17 09:47:52 <Veggen> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/071607-duke-iphone.html
Jul 17 09:48:42 * pupnik isn't interested in fancy phones though
Jul 17 09:48:52 <pupnik> tablet + cheap phone = win
Jul 17 09:48:56 <Veggen> pupnik: Not unless they're more open than today.
Jul 17 09:49:09 <Veggen> pupnik: An N800 with builtin GSM *would* be interesting.
Jul 17 09:49:46 <Veggen> but failing that, N800 with a cheap phone is better than a not-so-open smartphone.
Jul 17 09:50:28 <pupnik> seems to be 1/2 1/2 split among IT enthusiasts.  I'm in the 'no phone in the tablet' segment.
Jul 17 09:50:36 <jani> that 18k requests per sec sounds a bit fishy to mee thou..
Jul 17 09:50:48 <Veggen> jani: well, up to, in bursts, it seems.
Jul 17 09:51:04 <jani> Veggen: is that from single phone or bunch of them ?
Jul 17 09:51:12 <Veggen> no idea, but well.
Jul 17 09:51:28 <Veggen> still, it looks like it's broken, arp-wise.
Jul 17 09:52:55 <jani> definetly and in such place as campus where there's bound to be early adopters and techies thats a big problem but that number just sticks out abit
Jul 17 09:53:14 <jani> and to be on the safe side, iphone sucks =)
Jul 17 09:53:39 <bedboi> jani: LOL
Jul 17 09:53:40 <Veggen> jani: It'll appeal to the apple crows.
Jul 17 09:53:43 <Veggen> eh, crowd.
Jul 17 09:53:48 <bedboi> jani: that link rules :)
Jul 17 09:54:12 <cbx33> once flashed into R&D mode can you go back
Jul 17 09:54:50 <Veggen> jani: I'm not an OSX fan myself, because I come from the unix side, and MacOS X is sort of "you know it's unix, but start digging into the OSX stuff, and none of it looks familiar at all".
Jul 17 09:55:31 <pupnik> looks like the OMAP 3430 / 3420 ARM Cortex A8 core might be able 2x faster than the N800
Jul 17 09:55:40 <pupnik> s/able/about/
Jul 17 09:55:41 <infobot> pupnik meant: looks like the OMAP 3430 / 3420 ARM Cortex A8 core might be about 2x faster than the N800
Jul 17 09:56:01 <Veggen> (and I know a couple of people involved in making "desktop *nix concept" for the university, and MacOS X is significantly harder than OSX, management-wise)
Jul 17 09:56:13 <Veggen> eh, *than Linux*
Jul 17 09:57:10 <lardman> pupnik: what articles did you get the photo from?
Jul 17 09:58:17 <pupnik> lost the link sorry
Jul 17 09:58:28 <lardman> Anyone with bluetooth stereo headphones care to comment on the quality of SBC?
Jul 17 09:58:39 <pupnik> again, youtube has nokia n95 3d demo videos to get a feel for what it delivers
Jul 17 09:58:47 <lardman> pupnik: No worries, I was just wondering whether it was really an n800 running the demo
Jul 17 10:00:21 <gla55_> pupnik: i suppose one could find e90 vids too.. with higher res on the inside screen
Jul 17 10:00:26 <lardman> http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/insider/Demos/index.asp
Jul 17 10:00:42 <lardman> may as well go straight to the source of the chip
Jul 17 10:01:12 <pupnik> Lardman, what do you think of this claim.. "The new ARM Cortex-A8 processor delivers up to 2,000 Dhrystone MIPS"
Jul 17 10:01:30 <pupnik> lardman: no it wasn't
Jul 17 10:01:52 <lardman> pupnik: hang on let me look at my results, and okay
Jul 17 10:02:46 <lardman> pupnik: Curious as my N800 manages 200000.0 dhrystones
Jul 17 10:03:22 <pupnik> so 2000 dmips = 2,000,000,000 dhrystones?
Jul 17 10:03:28 <lardman> I guess so
Jul 17 10:03:49 <lardman> factor of 1000
Jul 17 10:03:52 <lardman> pretty impressive
Jul 17 10:05:07 <pupnik> heh.  if the core is 2x as fast as the 2420, i'm sold
Jul 17 10:05:16 <jani> lardman: well, the image was 640x480 which sounds a bit fishy if its really is n800 ..
Jul 17 10:05:25 <lardman> supposedly there are faster versions on the omap2420
Jul 17 10:05:53 <lardman> jani: I think pupnik's comment above was saying that it wasn't from an n800, just from an omap2420
Jul 17 10:06:01 <pupnik> right
Jul 17 10:06:06 <pupnik> "The ARM Cortex-A8 processor delivers up to 2,000 DMIPS. By comparison, current ARM 9 chips typically achieve around 150-300 DMIPS."
Jul 17 10:06:21 <lardman> yeah, strange that
Jul 17 10:06:27 <lardman> http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/8127/arm-unveils-next-generation-chip-design/ ?
Jul 17 10:06:37 <pupnik> heh
Jul 17 10:07:33 <lardman> see the last comment :D
Jul 17 10:09:55 <lardman> ah, DMIPS isn't == dhrystones/1e6
Jul 17 10:09:56 <pupnik> hrm.  'd'=dishonest, deceptive... :/
Jul 17 10:10:07 <pupnik> oh
Jul 17 10:10:07 <lardman> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhrystone, see the Results sectioon
Jul 17 10:12:00 <lardman> Strange wording there. Why just divide by an arbitrary number, surely they mean that the dhystone loops/s has to be divided by mips on the device in question
Jul 17 10:13:02 <lardman> ah, perhaps one just multiplies the mips value by the arbitrary number and doesn't need to run dhrystone?
Jul 17 10:14:23 <sp3000> lardman: you'd divide by an arbitrary factor to scale the dhrys to a kind of mips scale where it coincides at the 1mips machine mentioned
Jul 17 10:14:56 <lardman> sp3000: But you gain little by doing it, other than normalising the data
Jul 17 10:15:23 <lardman> sp3000: and it wouldn't work where mips are not proportional to dhrystone loops/s
Jul 17 10:16:46 <sp3000> taht just means your definition of work differs from that indended by the scaling
Jul 17 10:16:50 <pupnik> what do you think the chances are that there will be an n800 successor?  and will it use omap3?
Jul 17 10:17:07 <lardman> If we go by the numbers in the article, it appears it will be ~10x faster
Jul 17 10:17:58 <pupnik> if it's 2x faster, it means dumb people like me will be able to port over a lot more games and emus
Jul 17 10:18:27 * pupnik points to snes9x at 4-8 fps on the 770 without sound.
Jul 17 10:18:42 <gla55_> though, if the 10x faster speeds are for over ghz
Jul 17 10:20:11 <lardman> well if you divide my loops/s (200,000) by the DMIPS adjustment factor (1757) you get 113.8304 DMIPS
Jul 17 10:20:33 <lardman> So it's in the right ball park, but a bit slower than the numbers given
Jul 17 10:22:56 <pupnik> aha the 'J' in ARMv5TEJ stands for Jazelle - Java JIT
Jul 17 10:23:19 <lardman> yep, though not jit, direct execution
Jul 17 10:23:23 <pupnik> oh
Jul 17 10:29:05 <AD-N770> good morning
Jul 17 10:30:23 <alterego> Mornin'
Jul 17 10:32:15 <pupnik> "?Proving the extensibility of the OMAP 3 architecture, we are demonstrating the ARM Cortex-A8 processor running at speeds up to 1GHz on TI?s low-power 65-nanometer (nm) technology"
Jul 17 10:33:36 <pupnik> i wonder if they will have a fast solution for addressing a 800x480 display
Jul 17 10:34:44 <X-Fade_> I think that the problem we have now is because of the external LCD controller. That needs to be eliminated in a next version?
Jul 17 10:34:56 <pupnik> yes from what i understand
Jul 17 10:47:36 <Komarov> hi all
Jul 17 10:48:27 <Komarov> Tried to reinstall Python after updating firmware... went into red pill mode, went to maemo.org into app catalog and clicked to a single click install file
Jul 17 10:49:16 <Komarov> It says it can't install Python because several libs missing: libglade2-0, libsdl-ttf2.0-0, libgdbm3, libreadline4
Jul 17 10:49:39 <Komarov> I have no idea where to install it from, can anyone help?
Jul 17 10:50:49 <sKaBoy> Komarov, http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html
Jul 17 10:51:01 <sKaBoy> Komarov, click first on the install for the "base repository"
Jul 17 10:54:06 <Komarov> great, thanks!
Jul 17 10:55:18 <Komarov> I actually try to send low-level escape sequences to bluetooth printer via bluez, it'd be great to find some guru in this field
Jul 17 11:08:34 <Cheban> Ùî çà òåìà,ãà?
Jul 17 11:13:03 <cbx33> hey all
Jul 17 11:15:30 * pupnik fantasizes about omap 3430 + maemo + nokia tablet
Jul 17 11:32:26 * cbx33 bursts pupniks bubble
Jul 17 11:33:38 <bedboi> damn i hate the n800 headphones ... the wire is too long and it twists and tangles too much
Jul 17 11:34:05 <cbx33> is it a mike too
Jul 17 11:38:33 <pupnik> I picked up some Ultimate Ears 5.1 headphones
Jul 17 11:45:21 <disq> inz: got my mail? what do you think?
Jul 17 11:47:03 <pupnik> http://alors.blogspirit.com/images/medium_bart_google.jpg  (sfw)
Jul 17 11:58:32 <inz> disq, /me slaps gmail around a bit with a large trout
Jul 17 11:59:01 <disq> check your spam folder :)
Jul 17 11:59:35 <inz> disq, yeah, there it was, with 2 or 3 maemo-developers and one easytag mailing list message
Jul 17 12:02:31 <inz> disq, looks (c)lean, have you tested it?
Jul 17 12:03:13 <disq> yeah i'm using it since yesterday
Jul 17 12:03:46 <inz> disq, do you want commit access?-)
Jul 17 12:03:50 <disq> serves as a notifier for "wtf is this site so slow?" (the answer is usually flash banners)
Jul 17 12:04:16 <pupnik> http://www.virtio.com/products/page/0,2573,39,00.html  OMAP 3430 simulator+SDK :)
Jul 17 12:04:33 <disq> i could commit it sure :)
Jul 17 12:04:34 <pupnik> you can also drop adlists into /etc/hosts
Jul 17 12:04:55 <disq> i tested the three-part loop extensively (with a fopen to /tmp/ etc) and it's ok btw
Jul 17 12:29:49 <alterego> Anyone know when we're likely to see hildon 1.0.0?
Jul 17 12:30:32 <alterego> There are quite a few functions that 1.0.0 has that my current version does not. So I'm wondering whether to implement them in Ruby-Maemo or not.
Jul 17 12:31:15 <keesj> alterego: how is it going?
Jul 17 12:31:21 <pupnik> hah wow... N95 is 600 euro here
Jul 17 12:32:03 <alterego> keesj, very well :)
Jul 17 12:32:18 <alterego> I'll probably finish Hildon widgets tonight.
Jul 17 12:33:45 <keesj> are you using swig?, how's the runtime speed?
Jul 17 12:34:17 <alterego> The runtime speed is pretty good. Though I've not tried it on the device yet.
Jul 17 12:34:56 <disq> alterego: mmm, probably in chinook? (4.0) should ask nokia people
Jul 17 12:35:40 <alterego> keesj, and no. I'm not using SWIG.
Jul 17 12:36:12 <keesj> alterego: what are you using ?
Jul 17 12:36:17 <alterego> emacs
Jul 17 12:36:32 <keesj> emacs as code generator?
Jul 17 12:37:06 <alterego> I'm using some Ruby to auto generate stuff. But the guts I'm coding myself.
Jul 17 12:37:19 <keesj> what is python hildon using?
Jul 17 12:37:40 <keesj> alterego: I am just interrested,
Jul 17 12:37:56 <alterego> I don't know.
Jul 17 12:38:05 <lmoura> keesj, pygtk codegen
Jul 17 12:38:06 <disq> btw I committed a maxed cpu notification thingy to osso-statusbar-cpu. notifies with sound when the user cpu usage has been 90%+ for some time. if anybody's interested checkout (from maemo-hackers svn) and try
Jul 17 12:38:14 <Veggen> I could see myself finding a nice ruby-using project for the N800 ;)
Jul 17 12:38:36 <alterego> I've got some great ideas for Ruby-Maemo.
Jul 17 12:38:51 <alterego> I'm gonna suprise you all I promise ;) Gonna be better than Python-Maemo ^_^
Jul 17 12:38:52 <Veggen> Both N800 development and ruby development is things I'm interested in, so it'll be a synergy, learning-wise :)
Jul 17 12:40:35 <keesj> all the good looking apps are not using hildon!
Jul 17 12:40:47 <alterego> Well, I'm really enjoying this. It's a great project for me. Because I'm studying hildon and ruby gnome2 at the same time ^_^
Jul 17 12:40:57 <alterego> Getting to see all the guts of the libraries and how they're implemented.
Jul 17 12:41:07 <keesj> yes it must be fun
Jul 17 12:41:36 <keesj> alterego: why did you not yet test on a device?
Jul 17 12:42:01 <alterego> keesj, don't know really. Just didn't see much point.
Jul 17 12:42:13 <keesj> the "fun" part?
Jul 17 12:42:27 <alterego> I'll probably test it on the device in a bit. When the battery is charged.
Jul 17 12:42:32 <keesj> knowing how fast it it can be
Jul 17 12:42:45 <alterego> Yah
Jul 17 12:43:16 <alterego> to be honest, I don't really care how fast it is. I want it anyway :)
Jul 17 12:43:29 <keesj> wxruby was a bit slow to start
Jul 17 12:43:43 <alterego> After I've done this I'll maybe work on YARV/Ruby 1.9 to make sure we don't get left behind :)
Jul 17 12:44:12 <disq> alterego: so? video out? :)
Jul 17 12:44:27 <alterego> I've actually not looked into that yet disq :)
Jul 17 12:44:43 <alterego> I think Ruby/Maemo is more important to me right now :D
Jul 17 12:50:28 <disq> alterego: that's what some people would call chickening out :P
Jul 17 12:50:33 <Komarov> I actually try to send low-level escape sequences to bluetooth printer via bluez, it'd be great to find some guru in this field
Jul 17 12:51:45 <alterego> disq, I just think Ruby-Maemo is more important, to me and the community. TV-Out, if the device is capable will happen eventually regardless. But after the Ruby Maemo GSoC project got cancelled I thought I'd take it upon myself to do it.
Jul 17 13:02:57 <Komarov> what's the packet name of the ssh-server for N800?
Jul 17 13:03:16 <Jaffa> Hmm, Chinook beta announced. "Break N800 compatibility". That doesn't sound entirely good.
Jul 17 13:03:18 <disq> ssh (or openssh?)
Jul 17 13:03:29 <Komarov> it's a client
Jul 17 13:03:48 <disq> it also installs the server
Jul 17 13:04:12 <Jaffa> Ah, no, I misparsed. Chinook is "fully supported by the Nokia N800 Internet Tablet hardware". as is Diablo
Jul 17 13:04:22 <disq> yes i was just reading that
Jul 17 13:04:29 <disq> it's just the api break, and that's expected
Jul 17 13:05:03 <Komarov> thanks
Jul 17 13:07:26 <Jaffa> disq: indeed.
Jul 17 13:07:46 <Komarov> I created a helloworld.py program but when I try to exec it, I receive "Permission denied message", even under root and after setting chmod a+x
Jul 17 13:08:19 <s-ndh-c> Komarov: where is the file located?
Jul 17 13:08:33 <s-ndh-c> fat32 is usualy mounted with noexec
Jul 17 13:08:50 <s-ndh-c> which means you cant load shared objects from it nor can you execute binaries
Jul 17 13:09:07 <Komarov> in /media/mmc1
Jul 17 13:09:52 <Komarov> Maybe that's because I have in the first line: #!/usr/bin/env python2.5 while I should have #!/usr/bin/python?
Jul 17 13:10:30 <lmoura> Komarov, are trying to run like ./helloworld?
Jul 17 13:10:47 <lmoura> Komarov, try python2.5 helloworld.py
Jul 17 13:11:01 <pupnik> i don't think you can force exec on fat32 at all
Jul 17 13:11:11 <pupnik> on the nokia (correct me if i'm wrong)
Jul 17 13:11:21 <Komarov> great, it works!!
Jul 17 13:11:30 <Komarov> yeah, I moved it to /home/user
Jul 17 13:12:12 <Komarov> I also have an example from bluez lib site which I can't exec
Jul 17 13:12:46 <Komarov> I try line 'import dbus', it says:
Jul 17 13:12:49 <Jaffa> pupnik: edit noexec out of /etc/fstab and it'll work fine.
Jul 17 13:12:54 <Komarov> bus = dbus.SystemBus()
Jul 17 13:13:00 <pyhimys> Has anyone tried autoscan?
Jul 17 13:13:11 <Komarov> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'SystemBus'
Jul 17 13:13:16 <pyhimys> Does it work on it2007?
Jul 17 13:13:42 <pyhimys> It looks quite much like nessus to me.
Jul 17 13:17:36 <Komarov> should I use osso insted of direct use of dbus?
Jul 17 13:21:57 <pupnik> Jaffa: i edited noexec out of fstab and rebooted, my file has +x for uog.  i still get permission denied running from mmc1 (it2007he, n770)
Jul 17 13:22:54 <Jaffa> pupnik: that's.... odd.
Jul 17 13:24:11 <bedboi> anyone knows if mpeg-2 plugin for gstreamer is available for maemo?
Jul 17 13:27:26 <gpd> I want to get my maemo mapper POI database into GPX|KML|other
Jul 17 13:27:53 <gpd> I used an sqlbrowser to extract cvs of the table of points - now I just need to find a suitable format for gpsbabel
Jul 17 13:28:10 <gpd> anyone done this to stop me reinventing the wheel?
Jul 17 13:28:44 <lardman> interesting, two more toolchain releases supporting the n800, then a break (presumably) with elephanta (who makes up these names?)
Jul 17 13:28:56 <Veggen> gpsbabel has a csv format import.
Jul 17 13:29:01 <Veggen> (and export)
Jul 17 13:29:28 <gpd> Veggen: good idea - I"ll check it out
Jul 17 13:29:38 <lardman> Ah, Elephanta is another wind
Jul 17 13:29:45 <eichi> if i put the n800 with usb on pc..is the extern sd-card the same like as a cardreader? can i use it to formate it? ir can i formate with the 800 itself? help
Jul 17 13:31:02 <Veggen> I have some success actually uploading a fsck.{dos,vfat}-binary to the device and actually fsck the system, to get it fixed.
Jul 17 13:31:29 <Veggen> I guess you could just find an arm mkfs.vfat-binary, and do it on the device.
Jul 17 13:32:31 <Veggen> (hmm, what options do you have on the cards, in the file browser, again? Don't you have "format"?)
Jul 17 13:32:44 <lardman> Anyone here running Sardine? Is it using glibc2.5 & gtk+2.10 already?
Jul 17 13:35:19 <gpd> gpsbabel -i unicsv -f poi.csv -o kml -F poi.kml <-- sweet
Jul 17 13:35:38 <Jaffa> lardman: let's hope the next few releases have some major UI enhancements corresponding IT OS releases which have better built-in apps.
Jul 17 13:35:57 <Jaffa> Intel's MID interface looks really interesting for a thumb-based device, using Hildon Desktop still
Jul 17 13:36:04 <inz> lard, ACK on gtk+2.10(.12), no glibc2.5 (yet?)
Jul 17 13:36:30 <disq> lardman: libgtk-x11-2.0.so.0.1000.12, so yes
Jul 17 13:36:45 <disq> libc still 2.3.6
Jul 17 13:43:50 <eichi> Veggen: i dont know, if there is formate
Jul 17 13:45:39 <timeless> anyone here @guadec?
Jul 17 13:46:01 <timeless> (or however it's spelled)
Jul 17 13:46:44 <disq> you spelled it right
Jul 17 13:47:24 <timeless> it's amusing to see how many hits there are on google for spelling it wrong :)
Jul 17 13:47:53 <timeless> http://del.icio.us/rejon/gaudec :)
Jul 17 13:49:02 <disq> ari jaaksi has a keynote now afaik
Jul 17 13:49:35 <timeless> so, no one's there? :(
Jul 17 13:49:38 <lardman> inz, disq, Jaffa: thanks
Jul 17 13:50:19 <lardman> Are the talks televised/internetised?
Jul 17 13:50:51 <disq> no idea, looking around in guadec.org though
Jul 17 13:50:51 <nomis> ari does the Q&A right now.
Jul 17 13:52:49 <lardman> Hmm, it's in Birmingham, if I'd realised I would have popped along to see what it's all about
Jul 17 13:55:23 <timeless> so what did air say?
Jul 17 13:55:27 <timeless> ari
Jul 17 13:55:43 <lardman> He's scheduled to finish @ 15.00
Jul 17 13:55:44 <timeless> (just goes to show you: the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing)
Jul 17 13:55:56 <timeless> lardman: that's +5mins, no?
Jul 17 13:56:11 <lardman> timeless: yep (sorry should have said the timezone too)
Jul 17 13:56:12 <alterego> I wanted to go to GUADEC :(
Jul 17 13:56:40 <disq> quim said they were running late to ari's keynote (in the chinook announcement) so that's probably +5 mins
Jul 17 13:57:32 <lardman> ah well /me needs to do some work, will check back later & see if there's a video/summary about
Jul 17 14:01:24 <cosmo> has anyone run katix-efis successfully?
Jul 17 14:08:15 <tigert> kate herself, i guess :)
Jul 17 14:08:15 <tigert> mail her for help?
Jul 17 14:08:57 <timeless> lardman: yep you should have :), it's ok
Jul 17 14:13:12 <_Shurik_> mornin'
Jul 17 14:18:52 <trevarthan> pupnik: congrats on drpocketsnes!
Jul 17 14:19:35 <trevarthan> How's the frame rate? Better than snes9x?
Jul 17 14:19:52 <pupnik> it doesn't compile yet trevarthan i'm asking people to help
Jul 17 14:20:04 <trevarthan> oh. I thought you had it working...
Jul 17 14:20:31 <pupnik> I embarked on what might be a reasonable path
Jul 17 14:21:06 <pupnik> I should have documented my work though
Jul 17 14:21:50 <trevarthan> I'm still not sure why you think it's going to be faster than snes9x. I don't think you're going to get much faster than SDL on the n800/770.
Jul 17 14:22:05 <pupnik> the internals are much, much faster
Jul 17 14:22:23 <trevarthan> What proof do you have of that?
Jul 17 14:22:41 <pupnik> the gp2x boards and benchmarks
Jul 17 14:23:15 <trevarthan> people have run snes9x on the gp2x and drpocketsnes and drpocketsnes is faster?
Jul 17 14:23:25 <pupnik> yes
Jul 17 14:23:28 * Jaffa thought about going, since he lives about 30 miles from Birmingham, but couldn't justify the time off work.
Jul 17 14:23:52 <trevarthan> what are the chances that is just because drpocketsnes uses a framebuffer rather than X11 + SDL?
Jul 17 14:23:54 <eugene> i wish someone from maemo know it by now that the planet maemo is very broken
Jul 17 14:25:19 <zuh> eugene: How is it broken?
Jul 17 14:25:26 <zuh> Looks fine to me...
Jul 17 14:25:35 <eugene> zuh: try to add the feed to a rss reader
Jul 17 14:25:42 <pupnik> trevarthan: the snes ppu has to process many layers and do many additive effects, then there are transparency issues and in-scanline pallette changes and raster ops.  all of that consumes orders of magnitude more time than the final blit.
Jul 17 14:26:43 <tigert> sure we are in guadec
Jul 17 14:26:48 <tigert> greetings
Jul 17 14:26:58 <pupnik> p/
Jul 17 14:28:01 <X-Fade_> eugene: Works for me[tm] ?
Jul 17 14:28:19 <X-Fade_> What kind of problems are you seeing?
Jul 17 14:28:25 <Sho_> hm, nice that the next two major versions of Maemo have been confirmed for the N800
Jul 17 14:28:33 <Sho_> looks like they've learned from the N770 debacle
Jul 17 14:28:53 <eugene> X-Fade_: the feeds keep repeating itself everyday instead of showing me the new blog postings.
Jul 17 14:28:59 <trevarthan> pupnik: I want to believe you, but 1.) you don't have a working version to prove it and 2.) Nothing on the DrPocketSnes site or the pocketsnes site states that they are faster than snes9x and why....
Jul 17 14:29:21 <X-Fade> eugene: Ok, I will keep an eye on it.
Jul 17 14:29:36 <eugene> X-Fade: i seen someone else complaining about this too. if you are using mugshot which aggregates the planet maemo's rss feed, it displays the same posts for the past couple of weeks... even though i read it like 14 times already.
Jul 17 14:30:02 <pupnik> i can dig up some info... will get back to you
Jul 17 14:30:06 <eugene> same thing happening in google reader, and my n800 rss reader
Jul 17 14:30:12 <eugene> so i don't think it's my readers problem.
Jul 17 14:30:29 <trevarthan> ok. thanks. I'm more likely to help out if you can prove that it's not wasted effort. :)
Jul 17 14:30:34 <sciboy> Is a 770 still worth getting?
Jul 17 14:30:59 <pupnik> put it this way sciboy - i don't think i'll ever sell mine
Jul 17 14:31:12 <X-Fade> eugene: I will look into it and file a bug if I notice this too..
Jul 17 14:31:32 <eugene> X-Fade: thanks a lot
Jul 17 14:31:45 <X-Fade> eugene: But the RSS feed source looks fine to me. No old articles that have a new date?
Jul 17 14:31:52 <Sho_> IMO the N770 has always been too weak hardware-wise to do a lot of interesting things with it
Jul 17 14:31:53 <trevarthan> sciboy: I'd get an n800 if I were you.
Jul 17 14:32:09 <sciboy> I would too if it wasn't going to cost me nearly a grand.
Jul 17 14:32:29 <trevarthan> huh? they only cost 400USD...
Jul 17 14:32:35 <eugene> X-Fade: monitor it for the next few days...
Jul 17 14:32:39 <Fatal> only!
Jul 17 14:32:39 <alterego> Oooo .. Hildon 1.0.0 is gonna be nice.
Jul 17 14:32:43 <eugene> X-Fade: you will get to read old articles everyday :)
Jul 17 14:32:50 <trevarthan> Fatal: :)
Jul 17 14:32:50 <sciboy> They do, but the only retailer I could find in australia has nicely inflated prices.
Jul 17 14:33:01 <tigert> oh
Jul 17 14:33:02 <eugene> X-Fade: listen what thoughtfix has to say, the same thing, everyday.
Jul 17 14:33:02 <trevarthan> oh. that sucks. sorry to hear that.
Jul 17 14:33:11 <Fatal> so only 700USD for me to get the promised functionality! \o/ Yay! :)
Jul 17 14:33:39 <eugene> oh yeah, good news, N770/800 is finally available in Singapore :)
Jul 17 14:33:39 <tigert> browser.garage.maemo.org
Jul 17 14:33:46 <tigert> fyi
Jul 17 14:33:46 <bedboi> is usb networking working on n800?
Jul 17 14:33:51 <sciboy> eugene, IT IS?!?!
Jul 17 14:33:55 <eugene> sciboy: yes :)
Jul 17 14:33:57 <sciboy> eugene, I just got back from there.
Jul 17 14:34:00 <sciboy> D=
Jul 17 14:34:06 <eugene> sciboy: you can go to the Nokia shops here to buy one now :)
Jul 17 14:34:09 <eugene> sciboy: really :)
Jul 17 14:34:13 <trevarthan> bedboi: host mode? no, not yet. not working on linux yet. once that happens, maemo will follor.
Jul 17 14:34:18 * sciboy bashes his head against the table.
Jul 17 14:34:19 <trevarthan> s/follor/follow
Jul 17 14:34:21 <eugene> sciboy: i got my n800 in US though :)
Jul 17 14:34:30 <X-Fade> tigert: Yeah, I'm already fixing rendering problems :(
Jul 17 14:34:30 <sciboy> eugene, Seen the prices?
Jul 17 14:34:54 <eugene> sciboy: http://www.expansys.com.sg/zoompic.aspx?type=item&i=141019
Jul 17 14:35:05 <tigert> yea. it has bugs, but google calendar works better
Jul 17 14:35:10 <eugene> sciboy: N800 SGD$724.95
Jul 17 14:35:13 <tigert> and google docs works too
Jul 17 14:35:17 <bedboi> trevarthan: i'm not getting. i just want to make a connection between my pc and my n800 via usb cable
Jul 17 14:35:20 <eugene> sciboy: http://www.expansys.com.sg/p.aspx?i=144770
Jul 17 14:35:20 <bedboi> it should be possilbe
Jul 17 14:35:24 <X-Fade> tigert: Even that website has a rendering bug in our screenshot: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/maemo-org.png
Jul 17 14:35:33 <bedboi> i've done it for years using my iPaq
Jul 17 14:35:39 <tigert> but sure there are bugs
Jul 17 14:35:46 <eugene> sciboy: now i don't feel special anymore :)
Jul 17 14:36:12 <X-Fade> tigert: But nothing too bad..
Jul 17 14:36:29 <trevarthan> bedboi: yeah, client mode works. You can use the n800 as a mobile storage device. shows up like an sd card.
Jul 17 14:36:32 <X-Fade> tigert: The thing that _is_ bad, is that the browser website itself doesn't work on Opera :)
Jul 17 14:36:43 <tigert> x-fade, yeah :)
Jul 17 14:36:50 <bedboi> trevarthan: i don't care about storage device
Jul 17 14:36:58 <tigert> oh, it doesnt?
Jul 17 14:37:12 <bedboi> trevarthan: nevermind
Jul 17 14:37:12 <trevarthan> bedboi: so you're doing some custom protocol?
Jul 17 14:37:13 <tigert> whats important is the .install link anyway
Jul 17 14:37:24 <trevarthan> nice.
Jul 17 14:37:34 <sciboy> Anyway, 770 is still much easier on my wallet.
Jul 17 14:37:36 <X-Fade> tigert: Or just install microb-browser from the repositor :)
Jul 17 14:37:48 <X-Fade> s/repositor/repository/
Jul 17 14:37:48 <infobot> X-Fade meant: tigert: Or just install microb-browser from the repository :)
Jul 17 14:39:03 * timeless looks back
Jul 17 14:39:19 <timeless> what's wrong w/ http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/maemo-org.png
Jul 17 14:39:19 <timeless>  ?
Jul 17 14:39:41 <X-Fade> timeless: extra line above navigation..
Jul 17 14:40:24 <X-Fade> timeless: And planet etc really all get a lot of extra lines. Don't know yet why it does that..
Jul 17 14:41:21 <dpb_> doesn't fit there horizontally
Jul 17 14:41:38 <Fatal> fixed layouts..
Jul 17 14:41:58 <dpb_> you'd think it would be fixed for the device ;)
Jul 17 14:42:33 <trevarthan> Oh sweet, maemo just got SIP support natively: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/#usage
Jul 17 14:42:35 <X-Fade> dpb_: This mozilla engine renders it a few pixels wider.. Go figure ;)
Jul 17 14:42:39 <disq> trevarthan: hey how's it going with kagu?
Jul 17 14:43:15 <trevarthan> disq: still plugging away. Just added scrolling titles last night. Updated screenshots a few days ago: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki/ScreenShots
Jul 17 14:43:25 <Fatal> woop, dark orange on slightly brighter orange <3 [downloads]
Jul 17 14:43:26 <timeless> x-fade: it could be worse
Jul 17 14:43:38 <timeless> the browser web site temporarily had the install link on the second to last page
Jul 17 14:43:43 <timeless> and you couldn't reach it w/ opera :(
Jul 17 14:43:50 <X-Fade> timeless: Scroll back :)
Jul 17 14:43:59 <X-Fade> That is what I told tigert :)
Jul 17 14:44:18 <timeless> can you be specific about extra line?
Jul 17 14:44:22 <X-Fade> I noticed this problem this afternoon already.
Jul 17 14:44:40 <trevarthan> disq: I keep adding things on the TTD in front of the really important items. :( I'll get to my release milestone eventually though. I'm going to be adding audiobook support next so it will remember your playback position. AFAIK nothing for maemo has that functionality yet.
Jul 17 14:44:49 <X-Fade> timeless: Do you have the bowser installed?
Jul 17 14:44:49 <timeless> sorry, i'm stuck in scrollback
Jul 17 14:45:01 <timeless> x-fade: only on about 6 devices
Jul 17 14:45:13 <timeless> but wirfi here is such a pain because they keep knocking over the wifi hotspots
Jul 17 14:45:13 <X-Fade> Ok.. follow me ;)
Jul 17 14:45:45 <disq> trevarthan: yeah no player has it yet. also maybe bookmark-position support? but it could be complicated in the ui
Jul 17 14:46:09 <X-Fade> timeless: the line about 5 pixels above the navigation bar, should not be there at all.
Jul 17 14:46:14 <disq> trevarthan: how about play mode support? repeat album, switch to next album, repeat one song
Jul 17 14:46:24 <disq> currently i think it repeats the album indefinately
Jul 17 14:46:32 <trevarthan> disq: I'm going to keep it real simple at first. 1.) Add PositionView. 2.) make all mp3s with audiobook* genre remember position by default.
Jul 17 14:46:33 <timeless> you bmean the one under ma[e]mo?
Jul 17 14:47:11 <X-Fade> timeless: And if you go to the 'intro' page from maemo.. between the orange word 'Inter' and 'Maemo provides...'
Jul 17 14:47:14 <timeless> x-faade: fwiw, i'm the idiot responsible for the picture you were looking at
Jul 17 14:47:15 <X-Fade> timeless: Tep..
Jul 17 14:47:16 <trevarthan> disq: I'm all for it. I've just got bigger fish to fry right now. I want to improve the playlist functionality too.
Jul 17 14:47:17 <timeless> so feel free to blame me :)
Jul 17 14:47:20 <disq> trevarthan: is it possible to add different player ui's without forking the code, in the current state?
Jul 17 14:47:36 <X-Fade> timeless: I told Ferenc already this afternoon..
Jul 17 14:47:38 <timeless> hello world
Jul 17 14:47:41 * timeless is timeless
Jul 17 14:47:54 <timeless> all your bugs will belong to me
Jul 17 14:48:00 <timeless> something like that :(
Jul 17 14:48:13 <X-Fade> timeless: And I do all css related stuff on maemo.org ;)
Jul 17 14:48:20 <trevarthan> Themes? yes. there is nearly complete theme support right now. If by 'ui' you mean different widgets, then no, not yet. But I'm willing to accept any well designed widgets you create.
Jul 17 14:48:21 <timeless> x-fade: nice to meet you
Jul 17 14:49:00 <disq> trevarthan: i mean a completely different player ui. gtk instead of images, etc
Jul 17 14:49:25 <trevarthan> oh, no. kagu is and will always be a pygame app.
Jul 17 14:49:34 <disq> okay
Jul 17 14:49:46 <trevarthan> you might take a look at pymp if you want a gtk player though.
Jul 17 14:49:57 <trevarthan> it's simple, clean, and well designed.
Jul 17 14:50:13 <Jaffa> tigert: woohoo :-)
Jul 17 14:51:07 <jsmanrique> that "maemo-browser" looks promising
Jul 17 14:51:20 <disq> i was thinking something in the lines of making different ui's, like a textmode ui, a gtk ui, and such
Jul 17 14:51:46 <jsmanrique> after years using minimo in differents devices, this looks really promising
Jul 17 14:52:03 <jsmanrique> congratulations to developers
Jul 17 14:52:11 <trevarthan> disq: that's a neat idea. Do you think kagu adds enough functionality to the basic mplayer backend to warrant such a thing?
Jul 17 14:52:28 <X-Fade> timeless: Just check the maemo website on your pc and on the N800. You will see gray lines at places you don't see them on your pc..
Jul 17 14:52:39 <lardman|afk> bedboi: You can do ethernet over usb
Jul 17 14:53:19 <lardman|afk> bedboi: Iirc, you need to enable it via the flasher, and it stops dynatick working, so your battery will go flat quickly
Jul 17 14:53:26 <disq> trevarthan: it has songdb, clean and proper code, etc
Jul 17 14:53:27 <X-Fade> timeless: also notice the rendering bug at the right bottom of the secondary navigation 'Documentation Tutorials Roadmap'
Jul 17 14:53:28 <lardman|afk> bedboi: You need to insmod the kernel module
Jul 17 14:53:31 <trevarthan> disq: when I started kagu, I had three goals in mind: 1.) Make a GUI for A2DP support  2.) Play with my iphone like intertial scroll widget idea   3.) create a player that handles audio books well for maemo.
Jul 17 14:53:49 * Jaffa 's decided he'd love to be able to drag scroll any scrollable widget in its content area, and just use the scrollbar as a positional indicator. Preferably with a configurable (in Control Panel) amount of inertia too.
Jul 17 14:54:14 <trevarthan> disq: I've accomplished #1. I'm very close to finishing #3, and #2 will follow shortly. :)
Jul 17 14:54:47 <jsmanrique> would "maemo-browser" work in a 770 device?
Jul 17 14:54:50 <lardman|afk> bedboi: ignore my flasher comment, just modprobe/insmod the module. Got my wires crossed
Jul 17 14:54:57 * timeless looks back
Jul 17 14:55:10 <trevarthan> disq: unfortunately, for #2 I needed pygame. So that object structure is very pygame dependent with update loops and such. You don't need those with GTK. GTK is more callback based, I think.
Jul 17 14:55:16 <disq> trevarthan: with multiple ui's, after finishing with pygame you could try evas for instance. would need a configurator that lets the user choose ui-type and ui-theme.
Jul 17 14:55:17 <timeless> oh, you mean you don't make maemo look special for mobile devices?
Jul 17 14:55:24 <timeless> we made the browser page work special on most devices
Jul 17 14:55:25 <X-Fade> timeless: nope..
Jul 17 14:55:31 <timeless> e.g. we made it look awful on ie6 :)
Jul 17 14:55:42 <timeless> and we made it vritually unusable in opera for n800 :)
Jul 17 14:55:57 <timeless> actually, a minor fix for that went in a few moments ago
Jul 17 14:55:57 <trevarthan> disq: is evas more like pygame or more like gtk?
Jul 17 14:56:08 <disq> trevarthan: btw i still couldn't start the kagu-scanner pygtk thingy. messed around with osso-statusbar-cpu in my free time
Jul 17 14:56:18 <disq> trevarthan: not sure, i'm guessing pygame
Jul 17 14:56:29 <X-Fade> timeless: I make it work on Firefox, IE, Safari on Linux, Win and Mac..
Jul 17 14:56:37 <timeless> x-fade: ah yes, i didn't worry about that :)
Jul 17 14:56:38 <X-Fade> timeless: Imagine the horror of that ;)
Jul 17 14:56:52 <timeless> i was happy that it showed garage, had a nice picture for carman
Jul 17 14:57:03 <trevarthan> yeah, np. I wasn't expecting you to do much with it. But if you ever do, I'll really really appreciate it. Would save me a rather large step before I release a deb.
Jul 17 14:57:04 <timeless> and kinda showed the word maemo w/o rendering glitches
Jul 17 14:57:23 <X-Fade> timeless: When will they open the 'browser' project on garage?
Jul 17 14:57:25 <Jaffa> If it's based on Gecko 1.9, how's it support ACID 2?
Jul 17 14:57:36 <timeless> x-fade: i opened it a few mins ago, 15-20?
Jul 17 14:57:42 <timeless> is it still not open?
Jul 17 14:57:58 <timeless> the basic ui to open things seems broken
Jul 17 14:58:04 <disq> trevarthan: i'll do it by the time you finish with repeat-one, repeat-album, play-all-then-stop :P
Jul 17 14:58:04 <X-Fade> Ah.. old inforamation :)
Jul 17 14:58:05 <timeless> so i used the admin one
Jul 17 14:58:11 <X-Fade> timeless: it is now..
Jul 17 14:58:24 <Sparrow-> does anyone have experience syncing google calender with dates?
Jul 17 14:58:36 <trevarthan> disq: I'm not opposed to the idea of multiple UIs. I've just got too much to do right now getting kagu ready for a release. Maybe after I've got a release I'll look into it.
Jul 17 14:58:41 <timeless> i think it works better with figs
Jul 17 14:59:04 <trevarthan> disq: sounds good. :)
Jul 17 14:59:40 <X-Fade> timeless: Can you post a news item on garage? That way the news will end up on the maemo frontpage :)
Jul 17 14:59:55 <timeless> x-fade: explain how, i probably can
Jul 17 15:00:08 <trevarthan> I'm gonna go play with maemo's SIP support. Always wanted a clean wifi asterisk sip phone... :)
Jul 17 15:00:16 <disq> trevarthan: i'll be happy to start a pygtk ui if you decide that. i want a snappy ui, pygame will probably limit that
Jul 17 15:00:20 * timeless finds approve/reject news
Jul 17 15:00:29 <X-Fade> timeless: https://garage.maemo.org/news/submit.php?group_id=107
Jul 17 15:01:39 <trevarthan> disq: I've been toying with that idea myself. pygame can be a bit sluggish sometimes, and it certainly chews up gobs of CPU. My problem with GTK on the n800 is that I hate scroll bars. They're a massive pain when you're trying to use your finger.
Jul 17 15:03:12 <disq> trevarthan: true
Jul 17 15:03:51 <trevarthan> disq: feel free to do a fork of kagu to gtk if that's what you're interested in. That's what I did to ukmp. I wouldn't mind a bit, and if it ended up being superior to kagu-pygame then I would happily admit defeat. :) I've had fun playing with my scroll widget. But if something would work better then I want to use that.
Jul 17 15:03:57 <timeless> x-fade: i'm not getting it
Jul 17 15:04:53 <timeless> x-fade: done?
Jul 17 15:05:00 <trevarthan> disq: hell, if it works better than pygame then I'd even join you.
Jul 17 15:05:21 <disq> trevarthan: i would prefer making it run on a unified framework so there's no hassle to update the core back and forth, no duplicate work, etc
Jul 17 15:05:44 <X-Fade> timeless: Yeah, now let's wait for maemo.org to sync up ;)
Jul 17 15:05:53 <timeless> i think it's synced
Jul 17 15:06:07 <timeless> x-fade: being able to approve one's own news is nice
Jul 17 15:06:13 <timeless> not being able to figure out how to do it isn't
Jul 17 15:06:29 * timeless is not a fan of this system
Jul 17 15:06:48 <disq> trevarthan: when i find the time i'll inspect your code throughly, see what modifications need to be made to further seperate the ui from the core, and try out some stuff. maybe even send in a patch
Jul 17 15:06:50 <timeless> btw: people are free to tell me to fix anything on any of this content, i'll gladly do it if i'm around
Jul 17 15:06:51 <X-Fade> timeless: Hehe, yeah GForge is a bit.... different :)
Jul 17 15:06:59 <trevarthan> disq: I think in order to make that a reality I would have to abstract my pygame widgets even further until they had a completely gtk-like API. Having never worked with gtk in any real capacity, I simply don't have the experience to do that. I'm not qualified. The idea sounds great, but I just can't conceive of how to do it.
Jul 17 15:07:03 <timeless> x-fade: "special"
Jul 17 15:08:03 <timeless> x-fade: do you have any problems staying logged into bugs.maemo?
Jul 17 15:08:23 <X-Fade> timeless: Don't even go into theming GForge :)
Jul 17 15:08:31 <X-Fade> timeless: Nope..
Jul 17 15:08:38 <trevarthan> disq: if you can make it happen in a clean manner, I'll shut down my kagu code base and we'll switch to yours. It sounds like a really cool idea to me. But you'll have to make it clean in order to convince me. I'm a bit of a neat freak.
Jul 17 15:09:02 <disq> trevarthan: btw you seen this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1505 wonder if id3lib supports it
Jul 17 15:09:11 <X-Fade> timeless: Although I use Firefox on my pc for that.. Haven't used microb for that yet...
Jul 17 15:09:30 <timeless> x-fade: i'm using minefield on a wXPsp2 laptop
Jul 17 15:09:37 <disq> trevarthan: yeah, it would be a framework/base so it needs to be real clean anyways
Jul 17 15:10:18 <trevarthan> disq: chapter support looks cool. I've been segmenting my audio books into multiple files as a work around. I didn't even know it existed.
Jul 17 15:10:55 <X-Fade> timeless: Haven't needed to logon for weeks now. And I'm using it every day..
Jul 17 15:11:05 <disq> trevarthan: bbc has an app to chapterize existing mp3's, though not many podcasts use it
Jul 17 15:11:21 <timeless> x-fade: i got too many cookies and they were confusing bugzilla
Jul 17 15:11:35 <timeless> it happens often, someday i need to figure out how to fix bugzilla to send a cookiereset to the browser :(
Jul 17 15:13:41 <trevarthan> disq: I'm using mutagen for id3 reading, not id3lib. I don't *think* it has chapter support yet... http://www.sacredchao.net/quodlibet/wiki/Development/Mutagen/Tutorial
Jul 17 15:14:49 <trevarthan> I'd have to read the id3v2 spec to see how easy it would be to implement. Harassing the mutagen folks might be faster...
Jul 17 15:15:01 <disq> ooh somebody opened an enhancement request for maemoscrobbler support in osso-mediaplayer. *flattered*
Jul 17 15:15:09 <db48x> timeless: yea, I hate it when that happens
Jul 17 15:15:42 <trevarthan> disq: maemoscrobbler is awesome. you hit a real home run with that one. I love my last.fm recommendations.
Jul 17 15:16:22 <sciboy> Back.
Jul 17 15:17:16 <disq> i was meaning to do it for a long time (since n770) but the media players didn't have api to read song info
Jul 17 15:18:07 <disq> even mailed folks at nokia asking for info (if there are undocumented dbus calls to get the info, etc) they couldn't help me. seeing ukmp and kagu making so much progress decided to go with it anyways
Jul 17 15:18:33 <sciboy> So with that screen size how easy is it to read an A4 PDF document?
Jul 17 15:18:35 <timeless> what were you looking for?
Jul 17 15:18:49 <timeless> sciboy: provide a url as a testcase
Jul 17 15:18:54 <disq> btw the new firmware announces "current song title" via a dbus signal (and you can read song position/length with a method call, too) but no artist/album info
Jul 17 15:18:56 <timeless> ask people "how easy is it to read <thisurl>"
Jul 17 15:19:12 <timeless> amorphous generic questions are not a good way to get anywhere
Jul 17 15:19:32 <timeless> e.g. i might gladly load the url you link to and answer your question
Jul 17 15:19:40 <timeless> but there's no way i'll go try to*find* an A4 document
Jul 17 15:19:51 <timeless> i wouldn't recognize an A4 document if it tapped me on the shoulder
Jul 17 15:20:03 <trevarthan> Yeah, I'm hoping ukmp inspires a bit of a media player renascence for the maemo platform. I was baffled when I bought my n800 and all the media players were proprietary.
Jul 17 15:20:16 <sciboy> http://downloads.mysql.com/docs/administrator-en.a4.pdf
Jul 17 15:20:35 <sciboy> When you read this document do you have to zoom in and scroll from left to right?
Jul 17 15:22:39 <timeless> hrm
Jul 17 15:22:45 <timeless> i can't seem to open that w/ my browser
Jul 17 15:22:47 <timeless> "oops"
Jul 17 15:22:54 <disq> trevarthan: another crazy idea: since the player part and manager/ui/db is seperate, somebody could make a gmp client out of kagu :p though i'm no gmp fan
Jul 17 15:23:46 <trevarthan> disq: what's gmp?
Jul 17 15:23:48 <disq> trevarthan: also, are you sure about the volumeview? it looks weird to me, also probably slow
Jul 17 15:24:03 <timeless> i don't have to scroll from right to left
Jul 17 15:24:13 <disq> trevarthan: it's a server-client based media player model. the server has the files and the sound output, the clients connect and manage the playlist/volume
Jul 17 15:24:15 <timeless> but i have to tap and hold to go to the next apge
Jul 17 15:24:22 <timeless> because the built in pdf reader is *stupid*
Jul 17 15:24:34 <timeless> so while i can zoom one level to see all the content fit nicely
Jul 17 15:24:43 <timeless> it causes horizontal scrollbars
Jul 17 15:24:44 <trevarthan> disq: yeah, I like the volume view. It's only slow because of mplayer. I really need to figure out how to do all my mplayer calls in the background.
Jul 17 15:24:49 <timeless> and there's no way to pagedown in that mode
Jul 17 15:25:02 <timeless> which reminds me that i need to bug the owner of that app about that point
Jul 17 15:25:09 <trevarthan> disq: are you actually running the code? Or just looking at the screenshots?
Jul 17 15:25:12 <timeless> continuous scrolling is such a logical solution
Jul 17 15:25:12 <sciboy> I was just curious if you could read the text without having to scroll.
Jul 17 15:25:30 <sciboy> Cheers. =)
Jul 17 15:25:36 <X-Fade> timeless: You you how to switch between Opera and Microb as default browser on N800?
Jul 17 15:25:40 <trevarthan> disq: got a link to gmp?
Jul 17 15:25:41 <disq> trevarthan: i have the volumeview code, my latest checkout was yesterday
Jul 17 15:25:44 <timeless> x-fade: advanced menu
Jul 17 15:26:03 <timeless> it requires you to restart the browser fwiw...
Jul 17 15:26:06 <sciboy> Oh, and is there any recommended manner for viewing pages offline?
Jul 17 15:26:15 <sciboy> I mean, web pages.
Jul 17 15:26:16 <timeless> sciboy: "don't"
Jul 17 15:26:23 <timeless> you can try saving pages
Jul 17 15:26:32 <trevarthan> disq: update the code. I might have made some speed improvements since then. I can't remember. I've been in optimize mode for the last day or so.
Jul 17 15:26:59 <disq> trevarthan: http://www.musicpd.org/ (sorry no "g")
Jul 17 15:27:00 <alterego> [sgrant] maemo, even sounds small, like nano, and nemo mixed together.
Jul 17 15:27:05 <trevarthan> I think I've mostly been optimizing the text scrolling though. I think the volumeview was stable yesterday.
Jul 17 15:27:53 <disq> trevarthan: i will. each update i have to patch kaguscanner, add os.chdir("/home/user/kagu") to kagu.py, so i'm not doing it very often
Jul 17 15:28:08 <X-Fade> timeless: advanced menu? Where should I find that ?
Jul 17 15:28:09 <timeless> sciboy: modern web pages require internet access
Jul 17 15:28:20 <timeless> x-fade: below the close menu in the app menu
Jul 17 15:28:27 <trevarthan> disq: aren't you using svn? you should be able to run `svn update` and it'll merge your changes for you.
Jul 17 15:28:39 <X-Fade> timeless: I don't have that :)
Jul 17 15:28:42 <sciboy> timeless, Does the browser support saving pages? Or will I have to use my desktop.
Jul 17 15:28:45 <timeless> x-fade: um, "oops"
Jul 17 15:28:54 <timeless> sciboy: the browser supports saving pages
Jul 17 15:28:55 <disq> mm. haven't thought of that will try
Jul 17 15:28:59 <timeless> but i can guarantee it won't always work
Jul 17 15:29:17 <timeless> i'm speaking as a developer for a major desktop browser
Jul 17 15:29:26 <timeless> saving just plain can't always "do the right thing"
Jul 17 15:29:31 <trevarthan> disq: svn is great. we use it at work. learn it. I promise you'll love it.
Jul 17 15:29:39 <sciboy> I'm not ripping ajax apps or anything, at best, a forum page or wikipedia article.
Jul 17 15:29:40 <timeless> trevarthan: svn is terrible
Jul 17 15:29:42 <X-Fade> timeless: I can't find any options to switch it ;) Pretty essential for me though :)
Jul 17 15:29:43 <timeless> we use it at work
Jul 17 15:29:45 <timeless> learn to hate it.
Jul 17 15:29:49 <timeless> i promise you can learn why it sucks
Jul 17 15:30:04 <timeless> x-fade: hrm
Jul 17 15:30:06 * timeless wonders
Jul 17 15:30:10 <disq> i've been using it just for checkout and commit, update worked nicely
Jul 17 15:30:11 <trevarthan> disq: and yeah, it looks like kagu would make an excellent mpd frontend.
Jul 17 15:30:12 <timeless> maybe they made us remove that option :)
Jul 17 15:30:21 <timeless> x-fade: i presume you have sshd or xterm?
Jul 17 15:30:25 <trevarthan> timeless: what do you prefer over svn then?
Jul 17 15:30:26 <X-Fade> timeless: Sure..
Jul 17 15:30:54 <timeless> trevarthan: if i were going to do something new today, it'd be Hg
Jul 17 15:31:02 <timeless> but to be honest, i prefer cvs over svn
Jul 17 15:31:15 <timeless> because svn makes it a lot easier for people to make a very very big mess
Jul 17 15:31:21 <timeless> it's a lot easier to screw up merges
Jul 17 15:31:34 <timeless> it's a lot easier to leave branches all over the place
Jul 17 15:31:42 <X-Fade> timeless: Where does your bugzilla live? Which product?
Jul 17 15:31:50 <timeless> it's a lot easier to have files in places no one will ever find them
Jul 17 15:31:50 <trevarthan> timeless: sounds like you aren't using SVN properly.
Jul 17 15:32:05 <timeless> x-fade: n800/browser (mozilla engine) , it's in the news article you made me post
Jul 17 15:32:05 <X-Fade> timeless: rtcomm has a separate product..
Jul 17 15:32:15 <zuh> timeless: a lot easier to delete directories ;)
Jul 17 15:32:23 <timeless> trevarthan: me?
Jul 17 15:32:29 <timeless> you mean garage.maemo.org, right?
Jul 17 15:32:36 <timeless> i have 8gb of garbage from it
Jul 17 15:32:57 <disq> rtcomm also brings avatar support to contacts (gtalk/jabber too) but the default avatar is so fugly
Jul 17 15:33:03 <timeless> timeless@swift:/export/home/svn/world-all/garage% df -h .
Jul 17 15:33:03 <timeless> Filesystem             size   used  avail capacity  Mounted on
Jul 17 15:33:03 <timeless> root_pool/home/svn/world-all/garage
Jul 17 15:33:03 <timeless>                        362G   8.2G   128G     7%    /export/home/svn/world-all/garage
Jul 17 15:33:22 <timeless> because there's *no* way to figure out what a "trunk" is
Jul 17 15:33:25 <disq> fortunately there's a switch to list view option somewhere in the menu
Jul 17 15:33:30 <joshin> Moving my N770's / to a MMCmobile drive.  Is there a consensus on which is better to use on a flash device, ext2 or ext3?
Jul 17 15:33:41 <timeless> because people *don't* consistently use a single directory structure
Jul 17 15:33:52 <zuh> timeless: I doubt it's really meant to check out the whole of garage though... :)
Jul 17 15:34:04 <trevarthan> timeless: yeah, you. It sounds like you either aren't using it properly, or you've out grown it and you're refusing to upgrade. I've never worked on a project too large for SVN, but my projects usually only have less than 10 developers.
Jul 17 15:34:07 <timeless> zuh: try building a source code cross reference without the source
Jul 17 15:34:20 <timeless> trevarthan: my projects have >100 developers
Jul 17 15:34:33 <timeless> i work on mozilla, i use opensolaris, i work on maemo
Jul 17 15:34:39 <timeless> i work in garage
Jul 17 15:34:46 <timeless> i've worked on netbeans
Jul 17 15:34:49 <timeless> i've played w/ open office
Jul 17 15:34:50 <trevarthan> timeless: yeah, you probably need something a bit, err, bigger than svn.
Jul 17 15:34:54 <disq> joshin: not really. some use ext2, some use ext3. i use ext2.
Jul 17 15:35:13 <trevarthan> timeless: SVN is great for small projects though.
Jul 17 15:35:15 <timeless> trevarthan: anyway, svn makes it easy for people to develop bad habbits
Jul 17 15:35:16 <disq> joshin: in fact recently there's another discussion about this in maemo-developers
Jul 17 15:35:23 <timeless> and it's very hard to fix
Jul 17 15:35:28 <X-Fade> timeless: Bug 1669 it is ;)
Jul 17 15:35:40 <timeless> sure someone could write a commit hook
Jul 17 15:35:52 <timeless> x-fade: sorry
Jul 17 15:35:57 <timeless> this other guy distracted me
Jul 17 15:36:01 <timeless> i was going to explain how to do it
Jul 17 15:36:02 <joshin> disq: Yeah, I've been using ext2 on the thumbdrive I have on my nslu2.  I guess I'll just stick with that.
Jul 17 15:36:40 <X-Fade> timeless: No problem, still think it is a bug ;) A bit evil to hijhack default browser as a beta project ;)
Jul 17 15:36:45 <timeless> open /home/user/.browser
Jul 17 15:36:51 <timeless> you should see hidden=false
Jul 17 15:36:55 <sciboy> Will the 770 take a 2GB RS-MMC?
Jul 17 15:36:56 <timeless> make it say hidden=true
Jul 17 15:37:03 <timeless> x-fade: we tested it before the launch
Jul 17 15:37:06 <sciboy> Everywhere says 1gb. =/
Jul 17 15:37:15 <timeless> i specifically asked my neighbor because we weren't sure
Jul 17 15:37:19 <timeless> he said it worked
Jul 17 15:37:34 <timeless> course, his device probably wasn't clean
Jul 17 15:37:48 * timeless ponders
Jul 17 15:37:58 <timeless> the browser will let you save a file anywhere right?
Jul 17 15:39:11 <disq> trevarthan: looks like volumeview is noticably faster now
Jul 17 15:39:20 <timeless> x-fade: please test?
Jul 17 15:39:38 <X-Fade> timeless: The hidden=true?
Jul 17 15:39:40 <trevarthan> disq: ok cool. it's still a bit slow, but that's all mplayer's fault.
Jul 17 15:39:41 <timeless> yes
Jul 17 15:39:43 <X-Fade> timeless: or saving anywhere?
Jul 17 15:39:59 <trevarthan> disq: did svn update work well for you?
Jul 17 15:40:00 <timeless> hidden=true for now
Jul 17 15:40:08 <timeless> i'll figure out saving anywhere in a moment
Jul 17 15:40:54 <X-Fade> timeless: Hehe, it browser changes that setting back to hidden=false
Jul 17 15:40:55 <disq> trevarthan: it did, merged kagu.py etc
Jul 17 15:41:26 <disq> trevarthan: did you try maemoscrobbler on the road? without a net connection I mean
Jul 17 15:42:26 <disq> trevarthan: not sure if it would accept more than a few songs, I didn't try it yet
Jul 17 15:42:26 <X-Fade> timeless: Ah and your project bugzilla configuration is hosed..
Jul 17 15:42:28 <trevarthan> disq: yeah man. worked great. no hitches whatsoever.
Jul 17 15:42:47 <timeless> ?
Jul 17 15:42:55 <X-Fade> timeless: When filing the bug I saw your email and the assigned person..
Jul 17 15:43:02 <X-Fade> now they are gone..
Jul 17 15:43:08 <timeless> i'm not the assignee
Jul 17 15:43:12 <timeless> i watch the qa contact
Jul 17 15:43:13 <trevarthan> disq: I didn't audit it afterward. I'll do that next time. Make sure it's adding absolutely everything I play in the car.
Jul 17 15:43:13 <timeless> that's intentional
Jul 17 15:43:23 <X-Fade> unassigned <nobody@maemo.org>
Jul 17 15:43:26 <disq> trevarthan: currently i'm doing it 6 songs at a time, audioscrobbler api limit is 10, but it also says "not for batch update" or something along the lines of that in the api doc
Jul 17 15:43:29 <timeless> there's no trace of a connection between it and me
Jul 17 15:43:33 <timeless> i designed it
Jul 17 15:43:42 <timeless> i designed it for bugzilla.mozilla.org, i designed it for bugs.maemo.org
Jul 17 15:43:51 <timeless> believe me, i know exactly what i'm doing
Jul 17 15:44:06 <X-Fade> timeless: But I saw your gmail address when filing :)
Jul 17 15:44:09 <timeless> sure
Jul 17 15:44:11 <trevarthan> timeless: that's what all the people who don't have a clue say.
Jul 17 15:44:21 <timeless> so does *everyone* who files a bug in bugzilla.mozilla.org
Jul 17 15:44:31 <timeless> x-fade: but if i stop caring about browser bugs
Jul 17 15:44:41 <timeless> i don't have to remove myself as a cc from all browser bugs
Jul 17 15:44:48 <timeless> nor do i have to reassign them to someone else
Jul 17 15:44:56 <timeless> nor do i have to change the qa contact for all those bugs
Jul 17 15:45:00 <timeless> i'm an interchangable cog
Jul 17 15:45:17 <X-Fade> timeless: Yeah, that is nice. Although not transparant for users..
Jul 17 15:45:20 <timeless> now why can't i get opera to log me into bugs.maemo.org/ :)
Jul 17 15:45:45 <X-Fade> timeless: But back to the mozilla->opera problem.. it doesn't work :)
Jul 17 15:45:55 <timeless> x-fade: ok
Jul 17 15:46:06 <timeless> there's a line in that file that specifies the engine
Jul 17 15:46:12 <timeless> you can change it to engine=opera
Jul 17 15:46:22 <timeless> you can also do /usr/bin/browser --engine=opera
Jul 17 15:46:22 <trevarthan> disq: what do you think about the scrolling text?
Jul 17 15:46:27 <disq> trevarthan: maybe nokia should leave the current sucky media player as is, leave it to developers and focus on the platform. it's good and all but we all know how much time they're going to lose if they implement all that changes we (mostly I) suggested in the bugzilla. metacrawler still sucks after two updates, i have it disabled. dives into my sardine partition and never comes back
Jul 17 15:47:20 <timeless> disq: last i checked the latest internal version of metacrawler doesn't reread files starting from each byte offset :)
Jul 17 15:47:28 <timeless> (shipping versions did)_
Jul 17 15:47:39 <X-Fade> timeless: Doesn't work either. Something keeps overwriting that file with it's default settings..
Jul 17 15:47:41 <disq> trevarthan: it might need padding (1 or 2px) at both sides. maybe give it a little sinus wave? leave the track number unscrolling?
Jul 17 15:47:49 <timeless> x-fade: is the browser running?
Jul 17 15:48:08 <trevarthan> disq: yeah, I don't understand why they don't focus on the OS API and just package OSS apps like pidgin as the default chat client.
Jul 17 15:48:11 <disq> by sinus i mean sine. sorry.
Jul 17 15:48:40 * timeless curses
Jul 17 15:48:42 <X-Fade> timeless: Ah, it saves on close :)
Jul 17 15:48:47 <trevarthan> disq: ok, padding. I'll do that. Track number. I'll do that too. What do you mean by sine wave?
Jul 17 15:48:59 <disq> trevarthan: make it scroll slow to fast to slow, or fast to slow to fast.
Jul 17 15:49:01 <X-Fade> timeless: So I changed the file, closed the browser :)
Jul 17 15:49:08 <timeless> x-fade: :)
Jul 17 15:49:15 <timeless> sorry, i suppose i should have mentioned that
Jul 17 15:49:21 <trevarthan> disq: what, like every second or two?
Jul 17 15:50:02 <X-Fade> timeless: Ok, with hidden=true I can now change it..
Jul 17 15:50:06 <trevarthan> disq: what's the purpose of that? allow slow people to read, but allow impatient people to read fast too?
Jul 17 15:50:12 <disq> trevarthan: erm. no, when it's selected like now. instead of scrolling at a constant speed, start slow, get faster in the middle, etc. it might not be noticable on short song titles though
Jul 17 15:50:25 <disq> eye candy
Jul 17 15:50:46 <X-Fade> timeless: Now I can see that the microb engine has causes a few rendering problems that opera doesn't have..
Jul 17 15:51:04 <trevarthan> disq: ah. that's interesting. do you have an example player for win32 or linux that does that already? I'd like to see what it looks like.
Jul 17 15:51:32 <disq> another improvement in the songlist would be to skip the track number if there's only one track in the list. it could look better, not sure.
Jul 17 15:52:00 <timeless> brb
Jul 17 15:52:12 <trevarthan> disq: I might be able to do that too. I mostly have full albums here. not a big one song guy.
Jul 17 15:52:13 <disq> trevarthan: not sure if any players implement it but i can find/write a js that does it
Jul 17 15:52:58 <trevarthan> disq: I think I can handle it. I've already got the speed clock limited so I'll just increase the step rate closer to the middle of the scroll.
Jul 17 15:54:26 <trevarthan> you know what? feel free to play with it though. :) if you want to code it then I'm fine with that. :) I'm trying to recruit help here.
Jul 17 15:56:20 <disq> i need to start finishing off some paid work (deadline imminent) but can't get myself to do it. instead i'm checking out the mailing lists, chatting on irc etc. :) i would feel bad if i got into it more. so, i will, but can't today :)
Jul 17 15:57:54 <trevarthan> disq: me too. Alright, I've added those to the TTD: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/changeset/170   I'm gonna get some real work done now. :)
Jul 17 15:57:58 <timeless> x-fade: sorry, is there a "set engine" menu below "close"?
Jul 17 15:58:09 <X-Fade> timeless: Yeah..
Jul 17 15:58:31 <timeless> x-fade: um...
Jul 17 15:58:31 <X-Fade> timeless: I have switched back and forth a few times now. Works great.
Jul 17 15:58:36 <timeless> soryr, that's how you switch :)
Jul 17 15:58:44 <timeless> was that not there when you started this game?
Jul 17 15:58:51 <X-Fade> Nope
Jul 17 15:59:02 <sciboy> Are packages still being maintained for the 770?
Jul 17 16:00:39 <trevarthan> anyone know where I can find libplayback-1.0? I'm trying to install rtcomm on my n800....    it isn't part of the new firmware, is it?
Jul 17 16:01:10 <disq> trevarthan: okay. btw, if you search at google you'll find wavy text (text baseline going up and down like a sine wave) it's not that one i'm talking about. the idea is to get the text scrolling speed (velocity, if you will) change depending on the closeness to the beginning/end.
Jul 17 16:01:16 <timeless> sciboy; no :)
Jul 17 16:01:56 <X-Fade> Hmm found another microb bug.. Zooming in doesn't scale background images..
Jul 17 16:02:30 <trevarthan> disq: yeah, I get it. take a look at widgets.Text.offset. That's the variable that will change depending on proximity to the edge of the text (or middle, depending on implementation).
Jul 17 16:02:46 <timeless> trevarthan: it is the new firmware
Jul 17 16:02:49 <disq> trevarthan: rtcomm installed fine for me. if you have gpe or openedhand pim repositories it would be wise to disable them though (the known bug about evolution* could be triggered by that)
Jul 17 16:02:53 <trevarthan> it's a constant 10 right now. we should modulate it.
Jul 17 16:02:55 <timeless> it's ok, you need the new firmware for microb too :)
Jul 17 16:03:47 <trevarthan> timeless: disq: aw man. I'm scared to try the new firmware. I don't want to brick my 4gb SDHC card! https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204
Jul 17 16:04:57 * timeless goes to read
Jul 17 16:05:41 <disq> trevarthan: i would try it, it's good. but of course back up the sdhc card just in case. (luckily the only sdhc card i own is in my camera)
Jul 17 16:05:51 <timeless> ok, fwiw, don't expect anything on that before mid august
Jul 17 16:06:01 <timeless> nokians have a tendency to vacation in july
Jul 17 16:06:14 <timeless> silly finnish custom
Jul 17 16:07:10 <trevarthan> man.... risk bricking my sdhc card to get SIP support, or play it safe, foresaking SIP support, and safely continue development on kagu with my 4gb sdhc card?
Jul 17 16:07:17 <knipknap> how feasible is it to make an application that uses pigment and avahi-python on maemo/nokia 770? are these libraries available on maemo? is avahi already provided?
Jul 17 16:07:49 <trevarthan> timeless: maybe I should just put my 4gb card in the internal slot? I haven't seen any complaints about the internal slot bricking anything....
Jul 17 16:08:02 <disq> trevarthan: i don't think you can physically brick memory cards with the n800
Jul 17 16:08:20 <trevarthan> disq: they haven't found a way to repair them.
Jul 17 16:08:42 <sciboy> Asked the question so I don't have to -> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7695
Jul 17 16:09:27 <timeless> trevarthan: having lost a 2gb card i worked hard to get to /something/
Jul 17 16:09:39 <timeless> i'd personally not use any big cards that i bought w/ my own money :)
Jul 17 16:10:12 * timeless sighs
Jul 17 16:10:16 <timeless> that bug report is useless
Jul 17 16:10:21 <timeless> it's a bunch of rambling complaints
Jul 17 16:10:26 <timeless> including a "Fixed" marker
Jul 17 16:10:33 <timeless> who chose to reopen it and why?
Jul 17 16:10:37 <disq> i had similar (mount-ro-wtf) problems with my 2gb rsmmc in the external slot, with the prev firmware btw
Jul 17 16:10:40 <trevarthan> that dude with the sdhc patches needs to release another 3rd party kernel for the latest firmware so I don't have to worry about it.
Jul 17 16:10:56 <disq> it went away after a format (lost some maps)
Jul 17 16:11:01 * timeless reads
Jul 17 16:11:08 <disq> trevarthan: i agree
Jul 17 16:11:35 <timeless> slightly better would be a kernel w/ mmc debug logging enabled
Jul 17 16:12:11 <trevarthan> timeless: are you saying that 1204 is useless?
Jul 17 16:12:19 <timeless> yes
Jul 17 16:12:36 <timeless> trevarthan: bugs need to be about a single specific problem
Jul 17 16:12:56 <timeless> if someone fixes something, then unless the fix causes regressions, a new bug should be filed for new instances of similar problems
Jul 17 16:12:56 <disq> trevarthan: another player idea would be a portrait view. doable with pygame, not doable with gtk unless the user has a patched x server
Jul 17 16:13:10 <timeless> you can't know if the problem you're experiencing stems from the same problem
Jul 17 16:13:18 <timeless> it is very easy for there to be 2 bugs that trigger corruption
Jul 17 16:13:42 <pupnik> well trev, i haven't seen fps numbers for snes9x on the gp2x.  just reports that 'it's slow' and that drpocketsnes and squidgesnes are 'full speed' or 'near full speed'.  The three main performance elements are 1) mmu hack which we can't apply to the nokias 2) PPU, Sound optimisations 3) FB rendering (which we could do on nokia)
Jul 17 16:13:43 <timeless> if there are 10 different ways to trigger each of 2 bugs that trigger corruption
Jul 17 16:13:56 <timeless> then some of the ways are no longer relevant once the first bug is fixed
Jul 17 16:14:04 <trevarthan> timeless: disq: here's the mailing list thread if you're interested: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.devel/10712/focus=10720
Jul 17 16:14:14 <disq> anyway, need to dyson (my new word for vacuum cleaning) my carpet, brb.
Jul 17 16:14:15 <timeless> but sifting through bugs with general "it's dead" messages
Jul 17 16:14:20 <timeless> won't get anyone anywhere
Jul 17 16:14:43 <trevarthan> disq: yeah, I think I mention portrait view in the TTD. I talk about rotating things, I think.
Jul 17 16:14:45 <pupnik> Where does the crew of the Enterprise go to work-out?
Jul 17 16:14:51 <pupnik> "The It's Dead Gym"
Jul 17 16:14:56 <disq> trevarthan: i'm read almost all of the posts in maemo-devel, sardine-devel and maemo-users (talk about free time)
Jul 17 16:15:07 <trevarthan> disq: I'm *definitely* going to do a portrait view. But I'm going to do it after a release.
Jul 17 16:16:11 <disq> trevarthan: yeah. btw, you should have a list for the todo items before the first release and just focus on them
Jul 17 16:16:22 <trevarthan> pupnik: ah. so we're only getting PPU optimizations on Nokia, unless we decide to go the FB route. Are you using SDL or FB?
Jul 17 16:17:08 <pupnik> SDL, but i've looked at siarhei's (sp?) mplayer fb hack and that's doable
Jul 17 16:17:18 <disq> trevarthan: because the player is mostly good and usable right now. (add exit confirmation to esc key?)
Jul 17 16:17:44 * timeless goes to read the other bug
Jul 17 16:17:54 <trevarthan> disq: I do. It's the part of TTD before "- Place project on Maemo Garage."
Jul 17 16:18:25 <disq> i think that's too much stuff
Jul 17 16:18:50 <timeless> ok
Jul 17 16:18:51 <trevarthan> disq: I definitely want to add gst support before I make a release. I don't think mplayer should be a requirement.
Jul 17 16:18:57 <disq> possible to make a slightly half assed but equal functioning release
Jul 17 16:18:57 <timeless> so the original problem...
Jul 17 16:19:38 <timeless> a certain Hama 4GB SD card had a CRC problem with a fast MMC clock frequency
Jul 17 16:20:01 <timeless> lowering the frequency to 24MHz enabled a copy from the card to work
Jul 17 16:20:16 <trevarthan> disq: I could add gst support and release now... I just don't have any motivation to. What would that buy me besides release-day headaches?
Jul 17 16:20:41 <timeless> a Transcend MiniSD 4GB SDHC otoh.. which also had CRC errors
Jul 17 16:20:58 <disq> mmm.. i shall make a lolcat-of-the-day-background-image-changer
Jul 17 16:20:58 <timeless> well, lowering the clock speed caused the CRC errors to disappear
Jul 17 16:21:13 <timeless> but the card then responded with command timeouts to block reads
Jul 17 16:21:34 <timeless> anyway, that's all the information available internally
Jul 17 16:21:55 <disq> trevarthan: people are out there, starving for a good music player! :P though you're partly right, there are so much media players out right now. to stand out you need to offer a near complete release
Jul 17 16:21:58 <timeless> the 2gb micro sd card i had also was visible as timeouts iirc
Jul 17 16:22:12 <timeless> the guy i gave it to couldn't figure out what to do with it
Jul 17 16:22:20 <disq> or so many. rather than so much.
Jul 17 16:22:30 <timeless> anyway...
Jul 17 16:22:53 <timeless> if you or anyone else wants to hunt down the problem, you'll almost certainly need kernel mmc debugging enabled
Jul 17 16:23:04 <trevarthan> disq: that's what I was thinking. those things on the list now are what I think I need in order for kagu to be really attractive to people and stand out. I don't think many people use A2DP. other than that, maemoscrobbler support is the only thing that kagu currently offers that ukmp doesn't offer.
Jul 17 16:23:22 <timeless> it /might/ be possible to ship sd cards to nokia, however i suspect, at least from prior experience that there are enough already
Jul 17 16:23:54 <timeless> nokia does actually have at least one such card
Jul 17 16:24:13 <timeless> (the debugging output wasn't enough for the engineer to figure out a fix from a cursory inspection)
Jul 17 16:24:33 <trevarthan> disq: oh, I'd need a gui for ukmp-scanner and I'd need to add makefiles for the deb before a release too, so the number of things in front of those critical items isn't really that long.
Jul 17 16:24:34 <disq> trevarthan: btw have you considered downloading album covers from other sites? sniff itunes traffic? allmusic.com? i'll work on that.
Jul 17 16:24:53 <trevarthan> disq: nope. but go ahead. sounds good.
Jul 17 16:25:21 <Jaffa> trevarthan/disq: does it currently use "cover.jpg" et al? Or just ID3 album art?
Jul 17 16:25:40 <trevarthan> Jaffa: yeah. it'll use cover.jpg and folder.jpg.
Jul 17 16:26:04 <trevarthan> I think ukmp only uses cover.jpg right now.
Jul 17 16:36:28 <Hyperion|n800> when i try to download a file to mmc2 i get a 'not alllwed' error is there a way to fix this
Jul 17 16:36:53 <pupnik> is the usb cable plugged-in?
Jul 17 16:37:18 <Hyperion|n800> no
Jul 17 16:37:28 <Hyperion|n800> i can access files
Jul 17 16:37:39 <Hyperion|n800> but not write them
Jul 17 16:37:58 <sciboy> "More frequenty seen in the hands of high profile stock brokers and celebrities the Nokia 770 is avaialble up for grab here @ ebay !!!"
Jul 17 16:38:05 <timeless> oh, x-fade: fwiw, the email address you see isn't actually the real address :)
Jul 17 16:39:06 <trevarthan> Hyperion|n800: Have you been bitten by this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204
Jul 17 16:39:27 <sciboy> Anyone know the actual dimensions of the screen?
Jul 17 16:40:03 <Hyperion|n800> trevarthan, seems so :x
Jul 17 16:40:41 <disq> sciboy: high profile stock brokers? celebrities? well. i wouldn't buy from that seller :P
Jul 17 16:41:11 <disq> he's trying to sell the 770 as if it was a phone. also lying about it.
Jul 17 16:41:26 <trevarthan> Hyperion|n800: the funny thing is that we were just discussing that bug. timeless had a 4 page rant about it. The sad thing is that your mmc card might be bricked. Hopefully not. But maybe.
Jul 17 16:41:28 <sciboy> disq, If I had much freedom to shop around elsewhere, I would.
Jul 17 16:41:41 <timeless> odds are it's a brick
Jul 17 16:41:43 <timeless> it's not funny
Jul 17 16:42:44 <timeless> actually, the gmane list is kinda conufsed
Jul 17 16:42:53 <timeless> 54313 wasn't really about "file corruption"
Jul 17 16:42:59 <timeless> it was about CRCs preventing file copies
Jul 17 16:43:03 * timeless shrugs
Jul 17 16:43:14 <timeless> i can't stick that into the bug now because it's morphed
Jul 17 16:43:24 <timeless> (and this is why morphing bugs is bad)
Jul 17 16:43:39 <Hyperion|n800> trevarthan, heh, ok
Jul 17 16:44:28 <timeless> btw, not that you'd like it, but i suspect that if you read the nokia handbook
Jul 17 16:44:33 <trevarthan> Nokia needs to recall that firmware.
Jul 17 16:44:44 <timeless> it probably says something like "only use official nokia supported cards"
Jul 17 16:45:01 <timeless> and then has a tiny list of nokia vendor cards
Jul 17 16:45:09 <timeless> it'd be good if someone could get one of those corrupted :)
Jul 17 16:45:15 <timeless> (much better leverage)
Jul 17 16:45:30 <Hyperion|n800> also, is there any way to install the packages needed for skype all at once and not individualy?
Jul 17 16:45:34 <trevarthan> I bet someone could. I suspect the problem happens regardless of vendor.
Jul 17 16:45:59 <timeless> trevarthan: i believe so too, just noting that it really can't be me
Jul 17 16:46:09 <timeless> and really, at this point, that's about the only way to speed things up.
Jul 17 16:46:17 <timeless> practically speaking, nothing can happen before mid august
Jul 17 16:46:50 <trevarthan> I wonder if calling Nokia tech support and bitching would help?
Jul 17 16:46:53 <timeless> the biggest change from my perspective in the firmware was a fix for dead touchscreens
Jul 17 16:47:04 <timeless> trevarthan: they log them like bean counters
Jul 17 16:47:12 <timeless> if enough people overfill a bean bucket, it's noticed
Jul 17 16:47:50 <trevarthan> yeah, that's what I figured. Hyperion|n800: please call Nokia and complain loudly because their firmware bricked your card.
Jul 17 16:48:31 <timeless> be sure to include some details
Jul 17 16:48:39 <trevarthan> no f'ing way I'm upgrading. shame too. I really want to play with SIP and the touch screen fixes too.
Jul 17 16:48:42 <timeless> like it doesn't work in my nokia <specify phone> anymore
Jul 17 16:48:42 <Hyperion|n800> heh ok
Jul 17 16:48:50 <timeless> and the specific card
Jul 17 16:48:54 <timeless> oh
Jul 17 16:49:00 <timeless> oops, oh=wrong window
Jul 17 16:49:29 <db48x> heh
Jul 17 16:49:47 * timeless chuckles
Jul 17 16:49:55 <timeless> you're here to see that..
Jul 17 16:50:01 <db48x> yup
Jul 17 16:50:08 <timeless> you're stalking me!
Jul 17 16:50:15 <db48x> lol
Jul 17 16:50:18 <db48x> you told me to come here!
Jul 17 16:50:26 <timeless> oh sure, likely story!
Jul 17 16:50:43 <db48x> don't make me dig up a log
Jul 17 16:50:56 <timeless> yeah yeah, blame me for you following my advice
Jul 17 16:51:31 <db48x> so anyway, here's a generic debian question
Jul 17 16:51:53 <timeless> oh, someone asked about installing all the pieces of skype
Jul 17 16:51:58 <db48x> is there a standard way to make dpkg-buildpackage use a different directory to create the package in?
Jul 17 16:52:06 <timeless> you can always make a trivial ;.install or .deb package with requirements to make it works
Jul 17 16:52:57 <Hyperion|n800> ah ok
Jul 17 16:53:29 <timeless> you probably want -V {something}
Jul 17 16:54:19 <Hyperion|n800> timeless, it tells me that some of the packages are missing etc. do you now what repositories they might be in?
Jul 17 16:54:50 <timeless> oh
Jul 17 16:55:03 <timeless> you almost certainly need the latest version of the system :)
Jul 17 16:55:09 <timeless> give me the package names and i'll let you know
Jul 17 16:55:17 <timeless> hyperion: ie the ones that will brick things
Jul 17 16:56:02 <Hyperion|n800> heh
Jul 17 16:56:07 <disq> trevarthan: inspected, decided the sine wave scroll is not the thing for the song title. because it's best when the text is going back and forth (think knight rider effect) it's kinda pointless to use it with the song title wrapping around. it could be used in other places, like when the songlister scrolls (to get it to stop faster maybe, useful for fast scrolls)
Jul 17 16:56:24 <pupnik> hehe @ knight rider
Jul 17 16:57:19 <Hyperion|n800> timeless, I´ll deal with it later, thanks
Jul 17 16:57:35 <disq> trevarthan: the code is something like this: "math.sin((math.pi*current_step/2)/max_step)" this gives you a nonlinear number between 0.0 and 0.999 depending on current_step's location in max_step.
Jul 17 16:58:45 <db48x> no, you mean it computes a nonlinear function, not that the resulting number itself is nonlinear
Jul 17 16:58:57 <disq> exactly
Jul 17 17:03:15 <Hyperion|n800> timeless, do you know which one the osso-bookmarks package is in?
Jul 17 17:03:28 <timeless> repository?
Jul 17 17:04:07 <Hyperion|n800> yua
Jul 17 17:04:51 <timeless> is browser saying it wants it?
Jul 17 17:05:04 <timeless> the browser notes are very clear that you need the latest version of the os release
Jul 17 17:05:14 <timeless> i know because i rewrote that line of the page
Jul 17 17:06:00 <Hyperion|n800> ah :)
Jul 17 17:06:04 <Hyperion|n800> ok
Jul 17 17:06:07 <timeless> sorry
Jul 17 17:06:15 <timeless> you're free to try to convince someone to steal it for you
Jul 17 17:06:17 <Hyperion|n800> well as my card already seems to be bricked ....
Jul 17 17:06:18 <Hyperion|n800> :D
Jul 17 17:06:38 <timeless> which version of the os are you using?
Jul 17 17:06:40 <Hyperion|n800> when was the latest OS version released?
Jul 17 17:06:42 <Hyperion|n800> hrm
Jul 17 17:06:53 <timeless> it's listed in control panel/about or something
Jul 17 17:07:19 <Hyperion|n800> 3.2007.10-7
Jul 17 17:07:30 <timeless> well, if we go to the page...
Jul 17 17:07:52 * timeless wonders if someone is hammering garage
Jul 17 17:08:01 <timeless> Mozilla based browser for maemo requires the latest version of Internet Tablet OS 2007 for Nokia N800 (4.2007.26-8).
Jul 17 17:08:14 <timeless> was the page unclear in any way shape or form?
Jul 17 17:08:21 <timeless> do i need to write the page in Finnish?
Jul 17 17:08:26 <Hyperion|n800> lol!
Jul 17 17:08:35 <Hyperion|n800> no Im just outa the loop :)
Jul 17 17:08:37 <timeless> it might be hard for me to get that done today
Jul 17 17:08:45 <Hyperion|n800> dont worry about it ;)
Jul 17 17:08:47 <timeless> but i could probably find someone tomorrow :)
Jul 17 17:08:48 <db48x> that page is entirely non-transparent, timeless
Jul 17 17:08:56 <Hyperion|n800> english is native here
Jul 17 17:09:13 <timeless> hyperion: i got stuck w/ the job of cleaning up the text because i'm a native speaker
Jul 17 17:09:15 <Hyperion|n800> although
Jul 17 17:09:28 <Hyperion|n800> what you could do
Jul 17 17:09:37 <Hyperion|n800> is put that as number 1
Jul 17 17:09:50 <timeless> i don't think we have a 6. picture :(
Jul 17 17:09:51 <Hyperion|n800> so people see it
Jul 17 17:09:54 <Hyperion|n800> :(
Jul 17 17:10:04 <Hyperion|n800> ah well, if they dont
Jul 17 17:10:04 <teer2> Hello guys - I have a quick question.  Is there a way to remove the address bar on the webbrowser fullscreen?  I am sure this is a common question.  By the way, I love my SSH server running.  It is wonderful to login to the functional Linux OS
Jul 17 17:10:08 <timeless> would a quote chracter in front of that work?
Jul 17 17:10:10 <Hyperion|n800> theyĺl just come here and badger you
Jul 17 17:10:11 <Hyperion|n800> :D
Jul 17 17:10:16 <Hyperion|n800> ya it might
Jul 17 17:10:34 <timeless> hrm, we do have a 6 picture
Jul 17 17:10:38 <timeless> which would you prefer?
Jul 17 17:10:42 <timeless> 1..6 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/6.png
Jul 17 17:10:50 <timeless> or http://browser.garage.maemo.org/pics/quotes.png
Jul 17 17:11:45 <timeless> seriously, i'll gladly change it, but you have to suggest which will work best :)
Jul 17 17:12:07 <Hyperion|n800> go for the 6
Jul 17 17:12:19 <teer2> Hyperion|n800: I think I just saw a Shrike.
Jul 17 17:12:19 <timeless> ok
Jul 17 17:12:43 <Hyperion|n800> teer2 herm?
Jul 17 17:12:50 <kaatis_> that site looks like a powerpoint slideshow
Jul 17 17:13:09 <teer2> Hyperion|n800: Referring to the Hyperion books.  :)
Jul 17 17:13:17 <Hyperion|n800> ah ok, thanks
Jul 17 17:13:29 * Hyperion|n800 still needs to read them
Jul 17 17:13:39 <db48x> kaatis_: how does that make you feel?
Jul 17 17:13:50 <teer2> I am looking for the best way to do ebook reading on the N800
Jul 17 17:14:04 * timeless frowns
Jul 17 17:14:06 <Hyperion|n800> teer2, I like evince personally if they are in pdf format
Jul 17 17:14:07 <teer2> The address bar in the webbrowser was no fun.
Jul 17 17:14:19 <timeless> ok, so, just a straight list w/o any text explaining what this is?
Jul 17 17:14:26 <kaatis_> db48x, i'd much rather read some simple page x)
Jul 17 17:14:42 <teer2> I generally get ebooks in plain text or html because it is easier to manipulate
Jul 17 17:14:44 <timeless> or a paragraph and then 1 as "Update to the latest version of Internet Tablet OS 2007 for Nokia N800 (...)
Jul 17 17:14:52 * timeless leans toward the latter
Jul 17 17:15:18 <Hyperion|n800> ya
Jul 17 17:15:20 <Hyperion|n800> use a paragraph
Jul 17 17:15:41 <Hyperion|n800> and then the 1. update to lates os (3.7007.26-4)
Jul 17 17:17:11 <timeless>  Mozilla based browser for maemo requires the latest version of Internet Tablet OS 2007 for Nokia N800.
Jul 17 17:17:12 <timeless>     * Update to Internet Tablet OS 2007 (4.2007.26-8).
Jul 17 17:17:16 <timeless> ok?
Jul 17 17:17:32 <teer2> Is the Mozilla based brower better?
Jul 17 17:18:03 <teer2> I was going to try it to see if it did true fullscreen, but didn't want to fight with other bugs
Jul 17 17:18:13 <Hyperion|n800> yep
Jul 17 17:18:14 <timeless> what's true fullscreen?
Jul 17 17:18:42 <Hyperion|n800> wow, development has really kicked up a notch :)
Jul 17 17:18:46 <teer2> timeless: The default webbrowser leaves the address bar on the screen in fullscreen mode.
Jul 17 17:18:59 <Hyperion|n800> I finally have nano :D
Jul 17 17:19:00 <timeless> um
Jul 17 17:19:03 <timeless> you can turn that off
Jul 17 17:19:08 <timeless> app menu(that's a hardware button)
Jul 17 17:19:09 <teer2> I'd really like to know how.
Jul 17 17:19:18 <timeless> view>
Jul 17 17:19:22 <timeless> show toolbar>
Jul 17 17:19:29 <timeless> [x] full screen
Jul 17 17:19:36 <teer2> oooooh... thank you!
Jul 17 17:19:39 <timeless> i bet it's even in help
Jul 17 17:19:47 <teer2> I was looking under preferences
Jul 17 17:20:11 <timeless> hrm
Jul 17 17:20:13 <timeless> maybe it isn't
Jul 17 17:20:16 <Hyperion|n800> is it strange that I have nothing in my /media/mmc2 folder?
Jul 17 17:20:28 <timeless> and if it isn't, ill gladly yell at the help writers :)
Jul 17 17:21:12 <teer2> Does the google pages (google documents, google calander, google reader) work any better in the mozilla browser?
Jul 17 17:21:19 <timeless> teer2: yes
Jul 17 17:21:27 <timeless> they're the primary test pages
Jul 17 17:21:34 <teer2> And what is the default browser?  I'd love to recommend work on the google pages to them.
Jul 17 17:21:44 <timeless> ?
Jul 17 17:21:52 <timeless> installing microb changes the default browser
Jul 17 17:22:21 <timeless> there's supposed to be an appmenu>set engine> item
Jul 17 17:22:26 <timeless> but someone claimed it was missing
Jul 17 17:22:27 <Hyperion|n800> <3 MASSIVELY for google docs
Jul 17 17:22:33 <Hyperion|n800> oh, here is a question
Jul 17 17:22:35 <teer2> timeless: Reallly - that's great to hear.  I do a lot of work with the Google tools.
Jul 17 17:22:47 <timeless> teer2: i pretty much only work w/ google tools :)
Jul 17 17:22:56 <timeless> i'm not really familiar w/ the web
Jul 17 17:23:05 <Hyperion|n800> if I mounted my sd card over usb in linux, could permissions have gotten messed
Jul 17 17:23:07 <timeless> i wouldn't miss only visiting *.google.com :)
Jul 17 17:23:17 <Hyperion|n800> so that I can no longer write to it?
Jul 17 17:23:19 <timeless> hyperion: sd cards tend to be fat
Jul 17 17:23:25 <timeless> which means no permissions
Jul 17 17:23:30 <Hyperion|n800> :x
Jul 17 17:23:36 <Hyperion|n800> bugger
Jul 17 17:23:44 <timeless> in general at least from what i've seen, when an sd card goes bad, you're up a creek w/o a paddle
Jul 17 17:23:54 <timeless> a friend had a camera which ate an sd card for him
Jul 17 17:23:59 <timeless> no nokia devices involved
Jul 17 17:24:10 <timeless> just a mac, a usb cable, and a camera not properly mode dialed
Jul 17 17:24:25 <Hyperion|n800> heh
Jul 17 17:24:57 <timeless> hyperion: reload browser.garage
Jul 17 17:25:06 <disq> timeless: too bad we can't use both browsers. like we do with minimo
Jul 17 17:25:18 <timeless> just in case you guys think that it requires
Jul 17 17:25:26 <timeless> a nokia device to eat an mmc/sd card :)
Jul 17 17:25:38 <timeless> disq: so...
Jul 17 17:25:45 <timeless> i've used QNX devices (Audrey)
Jul 17 17:25:50 <timeless> which had a similar system
Jul 17 17:25:57 <timeless> you can in fact run two browsers if you like
Jul 17 17:26:08 <timeless> there's a TestGtkEmbed which you should be able to find in a dev package
Jul 17 17:26:20 <timeless> i believe it's in the repository
Jul 17 17:26:33 <timeless> the reason embedders (Nokia, QSSL)
Jul 17 17:26:48 <timeless> don't do it is because their devices don't have enough ram (32mb audrey, who knows for the tablet)
Jul 17 17:27:02 <timeless> so encouraging users to run two ram hungry applications is stupid
Jul 17 17:27:14 <timeless> and it's also fairly confusing to have two nearly identical uis open
Jul 17 17:27:19 <timeless> not good for a "platform"
Jul 17 17:27:34 <timeless> besides, you can't do a proper side by side comparison that way
Jul 17 17:27:38 <Hyperion|n800> heh
Jul 17 17:27:40 <dragorn> I've got an audrey
Jul 17 17:27:42 <dragorn> somewhere
Jul 17 17:27:44 <timeless> help nokia employees out, buy a second device and do it right :)
Jul 17 17:28:10 <timeless> my audrey is sitting next to my cinema display for my mac
Jul 17 17:28:20 <Hyperion|n800> looks good :)
Jul 17 17:28:25 <procto> 3com audrey?
Jul 17 17:28:27 <timeless> unfortunately it has a us voltage adapter and i'm not in the us
Jul 17 17:28:31 <timeless> procto: correct
Jul 17 17:28:36 <procto> man, I remember those things :>
Jul 17 17:28:40 <disq> timeless: i mean, it's cool but what happens if the package gets broken somewhere along the development period? it's not even beta (which is a reserved word :p ). would uninstalling it revert to opera?
Jul 17 17:28:49 <Hyperion|n800> im headed home
Jul 17 17:28:52 <timeless> disq: yes
Jul 17 17:28:54 <Hyperion|n800> bbl
Jul 17 17:28:58 <disq> then np :)
Jul 17 17:29:03 <timeless> disq: note that you're supposed to be able to switch browser engines from the menu
Jul 17 17:29:14 <disq> even better
Jul 17 17:29:21 <timeless> my devices are mostly too customized for me to be sure
Jul 17 17:29:33 * timeless picks up personal device that doesn't have microb
Jul 17 17:29:57 <dragorn> the amount of crap in my office means mine is somewhere in the basement
Jul 17 17:30:51 <procto> timeless: what's microb?
Jul 17 17:31:04 <timeless> http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/3.2/install/microb-browser.install
Jul 17 17:31:11 <disq> procto: it's the gecko/mozilla thingy
Jul 17 17:31:17 <disq> codename for it.
Jul 17 17:31:18 <procto> ah
Jul 17 17:31:24 <procto> k
Jul 17 17:31:26 <timeless> codename that the project leader worked very hard to have as a public name
Jul 17 17:31:27 <procto> my n800 arrives tomorrow
Jul 17 17:31:36 <procto> my stowaway bt keyboard should be arriving today
Jul 17 17:31:38 <timeless> only to have management squish it at the last weekend
Jul 17 17:31:59 <disq> so, i guess nokia is doing some useful stuff after all. last few weeks was very active
Jul 17 17:32:20 <timeless> disq: actually...
Jul 17 17:32:26 <timeless> nokia's mostly on vacation :)
Jul 17 17:32:29 <teer2> procto: N800 is awesome.
Jul 17 17:32:41 <procto> teer2: that's why I bought it :>
Jul 17 17:32:57 <timeless> i think most of the releases are timed based on guadec
Jul 17 17:33:15 * timeless sighs
Jul 17 17:33:19 * timeless needs to kick someone
Jul 17 17:33:20 <teer2> My only other issue (other than the address bar in fullscreen webbrowser that I just got fixed) is the WiFi losing connection.
Jul 17 17:33:22 <timeless> brb
Jul 17 17:33:34 <timeless> teer2: care to be slightly more specific?
Jul 17 17:33:37 <timeless> i can't fix vague bugs
Jul 17 17:33:45 <teer2> Anyone else see this?  Oh thanks.
Jul 17 17:33:49 <disq> firmware (flash9, which was unexpected) then the rtcomm alpha (early release, great work, appreciated) then the chinook pre-sdk (always welcome) and now microb
Jul 17 17:34:05 <timeless> disq: flash9 had been long planned
Jul 17 17:34:12 <timeless> originally it was going to arrive w/ microb
Jul 17 17:34:13 <disq> also sardine is cooking nicely
Jul 17 17:34:16 <timeless> we slipped a bit :(
Jul 17 17:35:25 <timeless> the things that were released in final were basically done early in the year (into spring) and took the last bits for testing and legal checks
Jul 17 17:35:26 <disq> timeless: great splash screen/page btw
Jul 17 17:35:37 <teer2> timeless: I have a very recent Linksys WAP using encryption (hold on, I'll give you specifics), and the N800 connected to the network easily enough.  I also have it connected to my phone's bluetooth connection.  Occasionally, when I bring it online from standby, I have to "Change connection..." and choose the WiFi again
Jul 17 17:36:11 <timeless> teer2: does the icon disappear in themenu that has change connection?
Jul 17 17:36:28 <disq> it comes with ssl2 disabled though
Jul 17 17:36:29 <timeless> (specific should include the linksys model including rev, they're as bad as nokia!)
Jul 17 17:36:41 <timeless> disq: is that a problem for a specific reason?
Jul 17 17:36:58 <teer2> timeless: wireless stats: 802.11 B/G, channel 6, Wireless SSID Broadcasted, WPA Personal security mode, TKIP
Jul 17 17:37:12 <timeless> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=ssl2
Jul 17 17:37:13 <timeless> => disq
Jul 17 17:37:18 <disq> there's no specific reason, not even sure which sites use ssl2 and which don't
Jul 17 17:37:29 <timeless> if you have a specific site, please file a bug into that tree
Jul 17 17:37:34 <timeless> (don't file duplicates...)
Jul 17 17:37:50 <timeless> disq: you'll find out if any do when you get there :)
Jul 17 17:37:54 <timeless> brb
Jul 17 17:38:04 <disq> :) thanks for the update
Jul 17 17:38:21 <teer2> timeless: By icon, do you mean the WiFi four-bar meter that shows the signal strength?
Jul 17 17:39:39 <teer2> timeless: I will document what I do/see next time it happens so I can get better information to you, since you are interested.
Jul 17 17:40:27 <Luria> are there any release notes/info for this microb browser?
Jul 17 17:42:46 <disq> microb loves times new roman.
Jul 17 17:43:46 <Luria> who doesnt love times new roman?
Jul 17 17:44:04 <Luria> damn, maemo.org is busy
Jul 17 17:44:28 <Luria> so why isnt this vm downloading quickly...
Jul 17 17:44:53 <timeless> fwiw...
Jul 17 17:45:09 <timeless> i'm testing using apt-get install instead of application managerr
Jul 17 17:45:14 <timeless> teer2: yes
Jul 17 17:45:24 <timeless> teer2: i've had that icon go missing at times :)
Jul 17 17:45:42 <timeless> luria: what do you want in them?
Jul 17 17:46:14 <disq> timeless: so, microb is a package that replaces eal, so it's essentially the same shell (/usr/bin/browser) with a different engine running?
Jul 17 17:46:26 <timeless> disq: um, kinda
Jul 17 17:46:30 <timeless> it is the same shell
Jul 17 17:46:39 <timeless> same way that qnx audrey's browser worked
Jul 17 17:46:41 <Luria> i use apt-get and dpkg all the time. app manager is painful.
Jul 17 17:46:51 <timeless> you have 1 shell, an api layer, and n providers
Jul 17 17:46:53 <teer2> timeless: Gotcha.  I will see what I can do.
Jul 17 17:47:03 <ctooley> There used to be a simple step by step instruction document on using the Linux flasher to put new images on the 770's and 800's.  I can't seem to find it now.
Jul 17 17:47:05 <timeless> you install a provider and the shell uses whichever its default is
Jul 17 17:47:32 <disq> timeless: ah. currently is there any way (gconf, conf file, whatever) to change the default without an uninstall?
Jul 17 17:47:45 <timeless> yes
Jul 17 17:47:54 <timeless> there's supposed to be a menu item, but it seemsit might be missing
Jul 17 17:47:59 <timeless> ~/.browser
Jul 17 17:48:08 <timeless> engine=opera | engine=microb
Jul 17 17:48:24 <disq> ah i see. great work
Jul 17 17:48:27 <Sparrow-> ctooley: link to it can be found from Ari Jaaksi's blog
Jul 17 17:48:31 <disq> Dirty_State=true (so dirty)
Jul 17 17:48:47 <timeless> don't change the file while the browser is open
Jul 17 17:48:49 <timeless> it won't work
Jul 17 17:49:01 <timeless> (browser writes its prefs when it quits...)
Jul 17 17:49:31 <disq> noticed :)
Jul 17 17:49:36 <disq> thanks for the help
Jul 17 17:50:15 <timeless> if you set hidden=true you should definitely get an extra menu
Jul 17 17:50:19 <Sparrow-> ctooley: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/
Jul 17 17:50:48 <disq> did the installation also update the browser binary? i think previously it had an hack that got rid of the default theming margins, now they're back
Jul 17 17:51:26 <timeless> yes
Jul 17 17:51:49 <disq> it's hildon theming's problem though :)
Jul 17 17:52:22 <timeless> hildon theming *sucks*
Jul 17 17:53:11 <ctooley> thank you spaetz
Jul 17 17:53:15 <ctooley> err Sparrow-
Jul 17 17:53:51 <disq> yeah
Jul 17 17:56:44 <Hyperion2010> hrm, so it seems that it is not a problem with the sd card at the moment since I can write to it from windows....
Jul 17 17:57:56 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: are you having problems reading a SD card in Maemo?
Jul 17 17:58:07 <gomiam> s/Maemo/N800/
Jul 17 17:58:07 <infobot> gomiam meant: Hyperion2010: are you having problems reading a SD card in N800?
Jul 17 17:58:31 <gomiam> reinsert it and, if that doesn't work, restart the tablet
Jul 17 17:58:53 <gomiam> it sometimes gets stupid and won't understand there's a perfectly valid card there.
Jul 17 17:59:20 <Hyperion2010> well it will read, it just wont write
Jul 17 17:59:33 <Hyperion2010> and I'm not running the 26-4 borked things
Jul 17 17:59:36 <disq> setting hidden=true showed the browsing engine selection menu
Jul 17 17:59:48 <gomiam> disq: ?
Jul 17 17:59:57 <gomiam> what browsing engine selection menu? >:-)
Jul 17 18:00:01 <Luria> uhh anyone know if rtcomm is usable?
Jul 17 18:00:51 <Luria> would be nice not to have to run gizmo
Jul 17 18:05:52 <disq> gomiam: you should read a few pages of scrollback
Jul 17 18:06:58 <gomiam> oh, I should read _so_ many things. Exams take some precedence though
Jul 17 18:07:52 <disq> gomiam: to sum it up: http://browser.garage.maemo.org (and the hidden=true thingy is in /home/user/.browser, allows you to switch between opera and microb)
Jul 17 18:08:09 <gomiam> ! I may try it at some given time
Jul 17 18:08:19 <gomiam> thanks for the info
Jul 17 18:09:32 <trevarthan> disq: how would math.sin((math.pi*current_step/2)/max_step) be used to compute a non-linear rate?
Jul 17 18:10:26 <gomiam> what kind of non-linear rate would you want to compute, trevarthan?
Jul 17 18:10:46 <trevarthan> I don't really. :) that's why I'm asking disq. It's his code.
Jul 17 18:10:54 <gomiam> ah :-D
Jul 17 18:11:09 <disq> trevarthan: you could multiply it with the max velocity. it would give you the velocity for step current_step
Jul 17 18:11:35 <trevarthan> where max_step == max velocity?
Jul 17 18:11:45 <gomiam> trevarthan: nope.
Jul 17 18:11:55 <trevarthan> yeah, sorry. terrible at rates....
Jul 17 18:11:59 <gomiam> the code you pasted gives you values between 0 and 1
Jul 17 18:12:15 <disq> no. max_step is the length of the "track". current_step is the animated item's position in that track
Jul 17 18:12:21 <gomiam> (if 0<=current_step<=max_step)
Jul 17 18:13:22 <trevarthan> disq: wouldn't that give you an always increasing rate though?
Jul 17 18:14:02 <disq> for instance you could use it to animate/slide the album cover image at the bottom, when the album changes. the cover image would start sliding from the bottom fast (or slow) and get slower (or faster) as it reaches its target position
Jul 17 18:14:45 <trevarthan> ah. so that gives a non-linear rate, but it's up to you to set the limit.
Jul 17 18:14:46 <disq> trevarthan: the thing is it's supposed to increase in relation to a sine wave
Jul 17 18:14:46 <trevarthan> I see.
Jul 17 18:15:24 <trevarthan> I would probably use a spline for that same sort of thing, or a hyperbola....
Jul 17 18:15:47 <gomiam> trevarthan: I'm more partial to parabolae ;-P
Jul 17 18:15:59 <disq> though probably doing these kinds of things with evas should be much easier and even may not require any code. not sure, never used it
Jul 17 18:16:07 <Hyperion2010> why is it that the nokia site change log is out of date?
Jul 17 18:16:18 <Hyperion2010> and/or where can I get the latest change log?
Jul 17 18:17:25 <trevarthan> gomiam: stop poking fun at the mathematically challenged. I get on with my crappy knowledge. I just have to google things more. :)
Jul 17 18:18:20 <trevarthan> I had some good spline code a few years back when I was doing stuff with DirectX... I should dust that off and play with it.
Jul 17 18:19:27 <Hyperion2010> trevarthan, as it turns out I'm not running the latest version (3.2007.26-4) yet my sd card still registers as read only
Jul 17 18:19:40 <Hyperion2010> I checked fstab to see if anything was up with that
Jul 17 18:19:47 <Hyperion2010> but it seems that it is not
Jul 17 18:20:34 <trevarthan> that's odd. I'm running 3.2007.10-7. I didn't know there was a version release between my firmware and the bad one.
Jul 17 18:20:49 <trevarthan> you sure 3.2007.26-4 isn't the latest?
Jul 17 18:21:01 <Hyperion2010> hrm
Jul 17 18:21:16 <Hyperion2010> apparnetly it is the 10-7
Jul 17 18:21:21 <Hyperion2010> cause thats what Im running
Jul 17 18:21:32 * Hyperion2010 wonders what timeless was talking about
Jul 17 18:21:33 <trevarthan> oh. you're running 10-7. ok. I get it. 26-4 is the bad one....
Jul 17 18:21:54 <Hyperion2010> ya
Jul 17 18:22:15 <Hyperion2010> I'm trying a restart now.... I've popped things in and out
Jul 17 18:22:19 <Hyperion2010> nothing quite seems to work
Jul 17 18:22:31 <Hyperion2010> I am using the >2gb kernel though....
Jul 17 18:22:55 <trevarthan> I've heard mention that the external SD card slot on the n800 has different electrical characteristics than the internal slot. It's possible that is what is causing these problems. Perhaps the problem exists in all firmwares.
Jul 17 18:23:16 <trevarthan> you're running the SDHC kernel?
Jul 17 18:23:23 <Hyperion2010> ya
Jul 17 18:23:39 <trevarthan> If you can't get the n800 to shut off, pop the battery out. Happens to me all the time.
Jul 17 18:23:45 <Hyperion2010> ah ok
Jul 17 18:23:59 <Hyperion2010> ya, I never know if its actually turned all the way off or not....
Jul 17 18:24:05 <trevarthan> If you can't get the damn thing to boot, plug it into the wall while you're booting. I had that problem yesterday.
Jul 17 18:24:16 <Hyperion2010> heh lol
Jul 17 18:24:47 <Hyperion2010> which way does this thing pop?
Jul 17 18:24:54 <trevarthan> If you get a white screen while booting, then it reboots automatically, you're probably screwed. Ask me how I know.
Jul 17 18:24:56 <Hyperion2010> from the end with the +- or the other end?
Jul 17 18:25:03 <trevarthan> other end
Jul 17 18:25:08 <Hyperion2010> k
Jul 17 18:25:18 <trevarthan> I use the battery cover (the curved edge) to pop it out.
Jul 17 18:25:37 <Hyperion2010> got my fingernail to work
Jul 17 18:26:09 <trevarthan> yow. I did that a few times, but I have to do it so much during kagu development that it made them hurt.
Jul 17 18:26:29 <Hyperion2010> haha
Jul 17 18:26:39 <gomiam> While you are talking about firmware versions you have mentioned 26-4
Jul 17 18:27:08 <gomiam> is that a development version? I ask because I have 10-7 and 26-8 from the Nokia site
Jul 17 18:27:09 <Hyperion2010> blargh, still saying read only....
Jul 17 18:27:24 <Hyperion2010> maybe it is 26-8 and I just miss typed
Jul 17 18:27:30 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: stupid question, is the card in the "read-only position"?
Jul 17 18:27:42 <Hyperion2010> there's such a thing?
Jul 17 18:27:44 <trevarthan> :)
Jul 17 18:27:47 <gomiam> yep
Jul 17 18:27:47 <Hyperion2010> because it will write in windows
Jul 17 18:27:48 <trevarthan> sometimes, yeah
Jul 17 18:28:01 <Hyperion2010> when it is hooked through the usb
Jul 17 18:28:11 <gomiam> check the SD card and it could have a white sliding plastic
Jul 17 18:28:18 <timeless> ok, for kicks, we're installing microb on a much older os release :)
Jul 17 18:28:24 <gomiam> with a text that says "LOCK" nearby
Jul 17 18:28:38 <gomiam> I have had some surprises with it
Jul 17 18:29:02 <Hyperion2010> hr, the files on the card are marked read only
Jul 17 18:29:10 <Hyperion2010> but the folders are not....
Jul 17 18:29:13 <gomiam> !
Jul 17 18:29:17 <trevarthan> something else you might try: can you format the card in windows? Perhaps formatting will hide the problem? (no clue if that's even possible)
Jul 17 18:29:27 <Hyperion2010> no idea
Jul 17 18:29:31 <gomiam> trevarthan: yes, you should be able to reformat the card
Jul 17 18:29:32 <Hyperion2010> its a fat 32 right?
Jul 17 18:29:38 <trevarthan> yeah
Jul 17 18:29:46 <Hyperion2010> I'll give it a shot
Jul 17 18:30:25 <teer2> Who makes the default webbrowser?  Is it opera?
Jul 17 18:30:27 <trevarthan> I have to wonder if one of the bits on the card just went bad or something....
Jul 17 18:30:30 <trevarthan> yeah, opera.
Jul 17 18:30:50 <teer2> trevarthan: Thanks
Jul 17 18:31:11 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: if you haven't started formatting, try creating a new file (if you didn't already)
Jul 17 18:31:26 <Hyperion2010> I will
Jul 17 18:31:33 <Hyperion2010> I'm backing stuff up atm
Jul 17 18:31:37 <gomiam> ok
Jul 17 18:32:00 <Hyperion2010> in windows all the files are check with "archive" anyone know if that is normal?
Jul 17 18:32:09 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: yup
Jul 17 18:32:14 <Hyperion2010> k thanks
Jul 17 18:32:26 <gomiam> when you copy files the already copied files are marked "Archive"
Jul 17 18:32:36 <gomiam> at least, that used to be the way in MS-DOS
Jul 17 18:32:45 <gomiam> and knowing the way MS develops software... :-D
Jul 17 18:33:31 <Hyperion2010> haha
Jul 17 18:33:57 <Hyperion2010> we know vista is just a slightly tweaked xp with some drm and fancy graphics and new kernel D:
Jul 17 18:34:22 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: that's not the worst of it. It _all_ still runs on a 16 bit kernel ;-)
Jul 17 18:34:55 <gomiam> jokes aside, you are right
Jul 17 18:34:55 <trevarthan> gomiam: even the 64 bit version?
Jul 17 18:35:11 <gomiam> trevarthan: well, they just put 4 16 bits kernels running concurrently
Jul 17 18:35:22 <gomiam> and hope one of them stays alive when the other three crash
Jul 17 18:35:23 <trevarthan> :)
Jul 17 18:35:23 <gomiam> :-P
Jul 17 18:35:40 <Hyperion2010> no luck creating a new folder gomiam
Jul 17 18:35:47 <gomiam> drat
Jul 17 18:35:54 <Hyperion2010> should I format through the usb connection
Jul 17 18:36:37 <trevarthan> I hate mathematic notation. I don't understand a bit of it. I stopped thinking like that sometime after algebra because I started using computers....
Jul 17 18:36:43 <gomiam> "format through the usb connection" as in "through a USB SD-card reader"?
Jul 17 18:37:03 <gomiam> trevarthan: ok, so what's it that is giving you problems now?
Jul 17 18:37:15 <Hyperion2010> well I have a card reader in my monitor, but I'm not sure that will work
Jul 17 18:37:27 <Hyperion2010> but when I plug the n800 into the usb
Jul 17 18:37:28 <trevarthan> gomiam: I'm not telling. You'll make fun of me again. :-P
Jul 17 18:37:39 <Hyperion2010> it shows up as a drive which can be formatted
Jul 17 18:37:49 <gomiam> trevarthan: no (not much, at any rate :-P )
Jul 17 18:38:16 <gomiam> no, really. What is it?
Jul 17 18:38:37 <trevarthan> there's too much of it to communicate. I'll just look it all up.
Jul 17 18:38:56 <gomiam> oh, pity. Good luck then
Jul 17 18:39:32 <Hyperion2010> when is 4.2007 scheduled for release?
Jul 17 18:39:50 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: I have 4.2007 already installed
Jul 17 18:39:56 <gomiam> at least 4.2007.26-8
Jul 17 18:40:01 <Hyperion2010> ah ok
Jul 17 18:40:02 <gomiam> O:-)
Jul 17 18:40:11 <Hyperion2010> will the nokia updater software grab that?
Jul 17 18:40:23 <gomiam> it should
Jul 17 18:40:30 <Hyperion2010> ok
Jul 17 18:40:37 <gomiam> though I'm partial to downloading it directly and then upload it from disk
Jul 17 18:40:49 <Hyperion2010> I would boot into linux
Jul 17 18:40:52 <Hyperion2010> but I'm here.....
Jul 17 18:40:59 <gomiam> oh, you don't need to boot into linux to do it
Jul 17 18:41:05 <gomiam> you just tell the installer where the file is
Jul 17 18:41:14 <gomiam> and it goes on happily
Jul 17 18:41:17 <Hyperion2010> ah
Jul 17 18:42:40 <Hyperion2010> is there samba for the n800?
Jul 17 18:42:44 <gomiam> yes
Jul 17 18:42:55 <gomiam> both client and server
Jul 17 18:43:30 <Hyperion2010> yes, I think I remember that, but since network wasnt showing up in file browser (god I would love a stripped down gnome for this thing) I figured I was just missing something
Jul 17 18:43:30 <Hyperion2010> :x
Jul 17 18:43:37 <gomiam> :-D
Jul 17 18:44:41 <Hyperion2010> I've asked around to see if people have been trying to use the "boot from mmc" kernel to stick something like gentoo on an sd card and boot from that :D
Jul 17 18:44:54 <Hyperion2010> too bad portage takes up over a gig :x
Jul 17 18:45:16 <gomiam> Hyperion2010: you might want to precompile the packages somewhere else
Jul 17 18:45:21 <killfill> hi maemos!
Jul 17 18:45:30 <Hyperion2010> haha, no kidding
Jul 17 18:45:32 <killfill> im trying ot use my bluetooth mic/pseaker
Jul 17 18:45:35 <killfill> is it possible?...
Jul 17 18:45:49 <killfill> i have it paired already.. bu sounts still goes ou thought integrated speaker
Jul 17 18:46:00 <Hyperion2010> I've been considering procompiling my kernel and OS all before sticking the HD into my new computer when I build it :D
Jul 17 18:46:02 <X-Fade> timeless: Did you guys test a webcore backend too?
Jul 17 18:46:53 <gomiam> IMO, recompiling is a bit overstated.
Jul 17 18:47:11 <gomiam> It may make sense in processor-intensive code
Jul 17 18:47:17 <killfill> anyone have use theirh bluetooth earphones
Jul 17 18:47:20 <killfill> ?
Jul 17 18:47:31 <gomiam> killfill: I don't have those, so no, sorry.
Jul 17 18:47:37 <killfill> :S
Jul 17 18:47:51 <gomiam> does the Bt microphone work, though?
Jul 17 18:47:53 <killfill> finnaly got SIPw roking in here.. :D~
Jul 17 18:47:54 <Hyperion2010> hehe, well with quad cores I'm sure you could just have a core dedicated to it at all times :D
Jul 17 18:48:04 <trevarthan> there we go, there's some good bezier code: http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/javascript-beziers
Jul 17 18:48:06 <killfill> bu i need my earphone to work too.. :S
Jul 17 18:48:17 <killfill> hm.. letme try
Jul 17 18:48:46 <gomiam> killfill: let's go part by part. First check the mike and then we'll think about the speakers :-)
Jul 17 18:49:12 <killfill> heh
Jul 17 18:49:20 <killfill> well it doesnt work neither
Jul 17 18:49:39 <killfill> at least on the sip software (telephaty is its name?)
Jul 17 18:49:44 <gomiam> ok, let me google for a bit
Jul 17 18:52:03 <gomiam> teorethically (these english writers, it should be theorically, shouldn't it?) there's a Human Interface Profile for Bluetooth on N800
Jul 17 18:52:25 <gomiam> I would expect it to be something more than just Bluetooth keyboard support
Jul 17 18:52:37 <gomiam> but perhaps it isn't
Jul 17 18:52:56 <Hyperion2010> well it at least does data connection....
Jul 17 18:53:01 <killfill> well i notice when switching to the new OS2007 from april
Jul 17 18:53:17 <killfill> that all bt devices are visible.. before only phones
Jul 17 18:54:16 <Hyperion2010> ya, I pick up computers, phones, keyboards
Jul 17 18:54:26 <Hyperion2010> sadly I dont think a bt mouse would work :(
Jul 17 18:54:35 <Hyperion2010> that would rox
Jul 17 18:54:50 <gomiam> mmm... that might make sense. N770 needed a third-party Bluetooth driver to connect to keyboards.
Jul 17 18:55:05 <killfill> Hyperion2010: you dont happend to have a headset do you?.. :)
Jul 17 18:55:27 <Hyperion2010> na, I rarely use my sound on it, though I've actually though about getting one :x
Jul 17 18:55:45 <Hyperion2010> did you chekc internettablettalk?
Jul 17 18:56:12 <killfill> the forums?
Jul 17 18:56:18 <Hyperion2010> ya
Jul 17 18:56:29 <Hyperion2010> btw, gomiam, format didnt work either :o
Jul 17 18:56:31 * killfill joining 
Jul 17 18:56:49 <gomiam> ouch
Jul 17 18:57:04 <Hyperion2010> heh
Jul 17 18:57:08 <gomiam> that makes little sense
Jul 17 18:57:09 <gomiam> ok
Jul 17 18:57:20 <Hyperion2010> I'm going to update anyway
Jul 17 18:57:23 <gomiam> send the card to me, paid posts of course and I'll keep it :-P
Jul 17 18:57:29 <Hyperion2010> haha
Jul 17 18:57:35 <Hyperion2010> it works fine in all other settins.....
Jul 17 18:57:39 <Hyperion2010> ah well
Jul 17 18:57:43 <gomiam> excuses, excuses
Jul 17 18:57:48 <gomiam> now, get posting :-D
Jul 17 18:58:18 <Hyperion2010> you have to ssh to get gainroot to work right?
Jul 17 18:58:26 <gomiam> mmm... no
Jul 17 18:58:38 <gomiam> I think you only need to install osso-xterm and becomeroot
Jul 17 18:58:49 <disq> timeless: should test it in 2007HE
Jul 17 18:58:52 <Hyperion2010> ah ok, well Im going to do the update now
Jul 17 18:58:56 <gomiam> good
Jul 17 18:59:09 <Hyperion2010> and then if it continues to be borked
Jul 17 18:59:15 <Hyperion2010> I will yell at them :)
Jul 17 18:59:25 <Hyperion2010> since it will be akin to the problems others have had
Jul 17 18:59:38 <Hyperion2010> but I think I'll take it out for the update...
Jul 17 19:00:02 <Hyperion2010> also, does it matter if you switch the internal and external sd cards?
Jul 17 19:00:11 <Hyperion2010> (my internal is swap space)
Jul 17 19:00:32 <gomiam> maybe not
Jul 17 19:00:36 <Hyperion2010> k
Jul 17 19:00:48 <gomiam> of course switching would require recreating the swapspace.
Jul 17 19:01:00 <Hyperion2010> of course :)
Jul 17 19:01:05 <Hyperion2010> i'll deal with that later
Jul 17 19:01:17 <Hyperion2010> ah hang on....
Jul 17 19:01:26 * gomiam hangs on...
Jul 17 19:01:37 * gomiam feels his fingers slip...
Jul 17 19:01:56 <Hyperion2010> trying the lock slider
Jul 17 19:01:57 * gomiam falls to a dark, untimely and ultimately crunching death
Jul 17 19:01:58 <gomiam> :-P
Jul 17 19:02:05 <Hyperion2010> but that really shouldnt have been the problem....
Jul 17 19:02:21 <Hyperion2010> since I formatted it ffs
Jul 17 19:02:55 <Hyperion2010> lol no beans
Jul 17 19:03:41 <Hyperion2010> LOL
Jul 17 19:03:47 <Hyperion2010> well it can make new folders now...
Jul 17 19:03:48 <gomiam> time to go see the big blue room before it gets dark
Jul 17 19:03:50 <Hyperion2010> just no backup
Jul 17 19:05:15 * Xark is quite impressed with the new mozilla based browser.  I tad slowish, but very functional. (Woo-hoo! Google apps! - I missed Reader)
Jul 17 19:05:54 <Hyperion2010> lulz, gomiam, that was infact, the problem :x
Jul 17 19:05:55 <Hyperion2010> :D
Jul 17 19:06:11 * Hyperion2010 is brilliant
Jul 17 19:07:17 <Hyperion2010> anyone else get a very sligh screen flicker when using the lowest brightness setting?
Jul 17 19:07:58 <Xark> Hyperion2010: I have noticed that.  I am guessing the brightness is affected by wifi power use.
Jul 17 19:08:13 <Hyperion2010> ah ok
Jul 17 19:09:40 * pupnik holds breath for 3430 or 3420 and starts turning blue
Jul 17 19:10:07 <pupnik> maybe spring/summer 2008?
Jul 17 19:10:59 <timeless> can someone explain how to do basic arithmetic using only tools that are included in a standard n800_
Jul 17 19:11:07 <timeless> i only need addition and subtraction
Jul 17 19:11:17 <Hyperion2010> isnt there a built in calculator?
Jul 17 19:11:29 <Hyperion2010> utilites I think?
Jul 17 19:11:39 <timeless> i need a command line thing
Jul 17 19:11:51 <timeless> iC$m writing a complicated shell script like creature
Jul 17 19:11:59 <timeless> for someone else to run :)
Jul 17 19:12:18 <Hyperion2010> heh, that you will have to get someone else to explain :x
Jul 17 19:14:01 <Xark> timeless: Like:   echo  $[2 + 2]
Jul 17 19:14:09 <timeless> yeah
Jul 17 19:14:16 <timeless> Nokia-N800-10:/tmp# echo  $[2 + 2]
Jul 17 19:14:16 <timeless> $[2 + 2]
Jul 17 19:14:22 <Xark> timeless: Works in bash, not sure about busybox...
Jul 17 19:14:36 <timeless> well, thatC$s a real device running a real standard release
Jul 17 19:14:42 <timeless> nothing magical about it
Jul 17 19:15:04 <Xark> timebase: Yeah, mine too, but I installed bash on it. :)
Jul 17 19:15:22 <timeless> yeah, but iC$m trying to write this for someone who is unlikely to do that
Jul 17 19:15:27 <timeless> well, actually, whatever
Jul 17 19:15:35 <timeless> i don't want to depend on it
Jul 17 19:15:56 <dougsko> timeless: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/bc/
Jul 17 19:16:06 <GAN800> Anybody try the new browser?
Jul 17 19:16:21 <GAN800> Just installed, do I need to reboot.
Jul 17 19:17:42 <Hyperion2010> GAN800, just restart the browser itself
Jul 17 19:19:20 <GAN800> SWEEEEEET! Thanks! :D
Jul 17 19:19:54 <Xark> timeless: You could probably use awk (in busybox) for simple math.
Jul 17 19:20:37 <X-Fade> Now we need to port Adblock to the new browser :) Downloading ads while on gprs isn't fun..
Jul 17 19:21:21 <GAN800> Privoxy
Jul 17 19:28:55 <_Shurik_> fellow tabloids
Jul 17 19:29:01 <_Shurik_> I greet you
Jul 17 19:29:47 <GAN800> This just in, Jessica Alba is a dirty whore!
Jul 17 19:30:10 <_Shurik_> her hot water heater broke?
Jul 17 19:30:24 <_Shurik_> (redundancy alert)
Jul 17 19:33:58 <Xark> Does anybody know how to check the N800 battery level from a command line (via ssh)?
Jul 17 19:34:34 <_Shurik_> I do not
Jul 17 19:34:47 <Xark> Oh well.  Can't find anyting in /proc...
Jul 17 19:35:14 <_Shurik_> but it is a good question though
Jul 17 19:35:32 <Xark> Yeah, it would be handy.  I guess I will have to install vnc server. :-)
Jul 17 19:36:08 <_Shurik_> Can't you just like bring n800 with you? :)
Jul 17 19:36:33 <dougsko> you might be able to use dbus to find the battery level
Jul 17 19:36:55 <Xark> _Shurik_: Its just in the other room, I just don't want to leave it on charger all the time (so I want to know when it gets low).
Jul 17 19:37:14 <Hyperion2010> it safe to do a firmware update with the power cord plugged in?
Jul 17 19:37:43 <_Shurik_> Xark, right, bring it with you to the other room :)
Jul 17 19:37:49 <_Shurik_> Mine n800 goes everywhere I go :)
Jul 17 19:38:18 <Xark> _Shurik_: Yeah, but I wanted it to send me mail when it gets low on power (since I will forget to check it).
Jul 17 19:38:30 <_Shurik_> aah
Jul 17 19:39:11 <_Shurik_> interesting concept actually
Jul 17 19:39:14 <Xark> No biggie.  I will just have to listen for the "batter low noise", but it can be difficult mixed with techno music. :)
Jul 17 19:39:22 <_Shurik_> problem is that I usually keep it offline when not in use
Jul 17 19:40:40 <_Shurik_> so I need a software that will help n800 plug itself in when battery is low
Jul 17 19:41:49 <_Shurik_> or switch it's own battery
Jul 17 19:41:57 <_Shurik_> but then I'm risking owning a transformer
Jul 17 19:42:18 <Xark> Yeah, or spawning SkyNet. :)
Jul 17 19:42:51 <_Shurik_> mmm, liquid n800
Jul 17 19:51:22 <X-Fade> Ah, tableteer doesn't recognize the N800 when using the new browser ;) I guess they don't recognize the user agent...
Jul 17 19:52:10 <_Shurik_> anyting good on that site anyway?
Jul 17 19:54:57 <gpd> so I installed microb-browser - but nothing in the menus.
Jul 17 19:55:07 <X-Fade> Nah, but I was testing the browser. Finding rendering bugs..
Jul 17 19:55:16 <X-Fade> gpd: It replaces the original one..
Jul 17 19:55:29 <X-Fade> Or at least changes the engine to microb..
Jul 17 19:55:36 <gpd> holy crap - you mean no more opera?
Jul 17 19:55:37 <_Shurik_> I have no issues with opera
Jul 17 19:55:54 <X-Fade> gpd: You can change it back :)
Jul 17 19:56:21 <gpd> seems a little aggressive
Jul 17 19:56:28 <X-Fade> I described it in this bug :) https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1669
Jul 17 19:56:30 <gpd> where do I change it back (lazy)
Jul 17 19:56:42 <disq> gpd: edit ~/.browser, change hidden to true
Jul 17 19:57:20 <gpd> wow - early days I guess
Jul 17 19:57:26 <disq> gpd: then there'll be a menuitem in the browser to change it (or you could also change engine=microb to engine=opera) (make sure you don't have any browser windows open or it'll revert)
Jul 17 19:57:29 <gpd> but a nice addition nonetheless :D
Jul 17 19:57:35 <X-Fade> gpd: It is _beta_ :)
Jul 17 19:57:45 <disq> afaik it's pre-beta actually
Jul 17 19:57:56 <gpd> inded - i accept graciously
Jul 17 19:58:05 <X-Fade> Well certainly not for endusers..
Jul 17 19:58:30 <X-Fade> But it does a pretty decent job..
Jul 17 19:58:31 <zuh> Seems to work fine with google calendar though, and seems faster to me than opera too
Jul 17 19:58:39 <gpd> no danger of google gears until they release it for armel
Jul 17 19:58:49 <zuh> But I use the browser so little I could be wrong ;)
Jul 17 19:59:01 <X-Fade> Zuh, it is a little slower than opera to me.. Resizing is way slower..
Jul 17 19:59:23 <zuh> Could be, didn't actually test it that much yet
Jul 17 19:59:36 <zuh> And that's the expectation anyway
Jul 17 19:59:37 <X-Fade> And resizing is buggy. Hence bug 1671 ;)
Jul 17 19:59:49 <disq> it hits the over 90% avg cpu mark easier than opera, whilst loading sites
Jul 17 20:00:12 <X-Fade> But still. It is not bad.
Jul 17 20:01:11 <Xark> gpd: I think it has a "Set Engine" file menu option to switch back to Opera...
Jul 17 20:01:32 <_Shurik_> I'd like for Opera to remember "optimized view"  settings on per site basis
Jul 17 20:01:57 <Xark> Shurik: Yes, since on some sites its a disaster and on others virtually required.
Jul 17 20:02:16 <zuh> Perfectly adequate for my browsing on that thing, I dislike it in general so it's very rare (even more so since I don't have mobile net access anyway)
Jul 17 20:02:20 <_Shurik_> I wonder if anyone entered this as a request
Jul 17 20:03:16 <_Shurik_> but in general everyone is now going to start caring about low res devices all of the sudden
Jul 17 20:03:33 <_Shurik_> not that long ago noone cared about 800x600 anymore when designing sites
Jul 17 20:03:42 <zuh> Yeah, and it shows
Jul 17 20:03:56 <_Shurik_> although there are still people on that res... I wonder where they come from
Jul 17 20:04:11 <_Shurik_> (non mobile I mean)
Jul 17 20:04:14 <Xark> X-Fade: Yeah, its noticably slower than Opera, but much better functionality.  I'm pretty happy with it for a first release.
Jul 17 20:04:39 <_Shurik_> Xarc: microb?
Jul 17 20:04:49 <Xark> Shurik: Yeah.
Jul 17 20:04:52 <X-Fade> Xark: Yep, few rendering bugs make my life a little harder. But hey, you can't have it all :)
Jul 17 20:04:55 <_Shurik_> interesting
Jul 17 20:05:15 <_Shurik_> minimo had a good potential
Jul 17 20:05:19 <Xark> X-Fade: I am very happy to get access to Google apps (without minimo which I wasn't too happy with).
Jul 17 20:05:33 <_Shurik_> simply because I think mozilla renders html the way it was intended
Jul 17 20:06:02 <Xark> Shurik: Doesn't microb use the same rendering engine?
Jul 17 20:06:32 <_Shurik_> I have no idea, I just heard about it few minutes ago :))
Jul 17 20:06:49 <_Shurik_> haven't googled it yet... moving some files into production right now
Jul 17 20:06:50 <X-Fade> Xark: It uses Gecko. Just like Firefox does..
Jul 17 20:07:01 <Xark> Shurik: My impression is that is a customized mozilla derivitave (or at least using Gekko rendering engine).
Jul 17 20:07:08 <_Shurik_> very interesting
Jul 17 20:07:17 <_Shurik_> is there a way to have it without it replacing opera?
Jul 17 20:07:38 <unique311> yes
Jul 17 20:07:39 <Xark> _Shurik_: There is a file menu to switch back to opera engine.
Jul 17 20:07:48 <X-Fade> Xark: It uses Gecko 1.9 which will also be in Firefox 3.0
Jul 17 20:07:58 <_Shurik_> wicked
Jul 17 20:07:59 <unique311> .browser file located in the user folder
Jul 17 20:08:12 <_Shurik_> I hope it has a better support base then minimo
Jul 17 20:08:14 <Xark> X-Fade: Renders pages pretty nicely (Opera always had a few oddities).
Jul 17 20:08:15 <unique311> and change hidden:false to hidden:true
Jul 17 20:08:16 <_Monkey> unique311: that doesn't look right
Jul 17 20:08:45 <unique311> well i did it and i have the choice to use opera or microb now
Jul 17 20:09:33 <unique311> there's a file called .browser located in /home/user/
Jul 17 20:10:34 <unique311> hidden=false to hidden=true
Jul 17 20:10:52 <unique311> make sure the browser is not in use
Jul 17 20:12:15 <unique311> google maps doesn't seem to want to work in the new browser correctly...
Jul 17 20:12:27 <unique311> switch back to opera and it works..
Jul 17 20:14:04 <X-Fade> unique311: Maps works for me?
Jul 17 20:14:20 <unique311> sucks for me then....
Jul 17 20:14:49 <_Shurik_> use maemo mapper :)
Jul 17 20:14:51 <_Shurik_> for maps
Jul 17 20:15:25 <unique311> maemo mapper doesn't offer street view
Jul 17 20:15:31 <Luria> has anyone tried the rtcomm patch?
Jul 17 20:15:59 <_Shurik_> unique: what do you mean street view?
Jul 17 20:16:07 <_Shurik_> Luria: what's that for?
Jul 17 20:16:17 <unique311> new feature from google maps...
Jul 17 20:16:28 <unique311> shows you the streets..
Jul 17 20:16:33 * _Shurik_ loading maps.google.com
Jul 17 20:16:37 <unique311> maybe you should check it out
Jul 17 20:16:39 <unique311> yes
Jul 17 20:16:54 <unique311> major cities right now
Jul 17 20:17:11 <_Shurik_> are you talking about traffic?
Jul 17 20:17:48 <Luria> _Shurik_, rtcomm.garage.maemo.org
Jul 17 20:18:09 <_Shurik_> Luria: looking
Jul 17 20:18:18 <Luria> sip patch for n800
Jul 17 20:18:21 <_Shurik_> aaah
Jul 17 20:18:24 <unique311> working...
Jul 17 20:18:29 <unique311> had to change settings..
Jul 17 20:18:37 <_Shurik_> nope
Jul 17 20:20:09 <unique311> try it on your notebook or desktop
Jul 17 20:20:19 <timeless> x-fade: you have 4.2007, right?
Jul 17 20:21:39 <X-Fade> timeless: Yep.
Jul 17 20:22:46 <_Shurik_> whoa
Jul 17 20:22:58 <_Shurik_> they didn't have it for my not-so-major city
Jul 17 20:23:30 <onion> bah, N800 owners get all the fun stuff :(
Jul 17 20:23:42 <unique311> it works on the N800
Jul 17 20:23:49 <unique311> shurik what city?
Jul 17 20:23:53 <_Shurik_> Atlanta
Jul 17 20:24:00 <_Shurik_> I checked NY out, funkey
Jul 17 20:24:21 <timeless> x-fade: i'm walking home
Jul 17 20:24:34 <timeless> in 20mins i can give you a script which will let you make non 4.2007 users happy
Jul 17 20:24:38 <_Shurik_> timeless: watch out for that.... pole
Jul 17 20:24:57 <unique311> street view is a goood add from google...now it works on the n800...priceless...
Jul 17 20:24:57 <X-Fade> timeless: I have to get to bed :(
Jul 17 20:25:20 <timeless> x-fade: well, we'll see if someone else nibbles
Jul 17 20:25:39 <X-Fade> timeless: Will check the backscroll when I wake up :)
Jul 17 20:25:52 <timeless> ok :). i only have 200 lines, so ican't do that :)
Jul 17 20:26:09 * timeless goes to check for 3 bugs
Jul 17 20:26:55 <X-Fade> timeless: irssi baby ;)
Jul 17 20:27:25 <timeless> i can't afford more lines
Jul 17 20:27:30 <timeless> i'd never get work done
Jul 17 20:27:50 <db48x> heh
Jul 17 20:31:06 <unique311> _Shurik_, kinda shock atlanta is not considered a major city....
Jul 17 20:32:02 <_Shurik_>  no it is, but we just think that taking one's picture captures one's soul
Jul 17 20:32:21 <unique311> lol
Jul 17 20:32:28 <killfill> gomiam: didnt find anything about the bt headset?.. :)
Jul 17 20:32:36 <Blacksitox> whats IDE python on n800?
Jul 17 20:32:38 <unique311> the google van didn't make its way down there yet..
Jul 17 20:32:40 <unique311> thats all
Jul 17 20:32:48 <_Shurik_> right :)
Jul 17 20:33:01 <_Shurik_> Although we do have their regional hosting here. I even saw it once
Jul 17 20:33:27 <unique311> so only a matter of time before it shows up...
Jul 17 20:33:34 <_Shurik_> they just probably haven't come around to hacking into street cams yet
Jul 17 20:33:37 <unique311> if you seen it down there...
Jul 17 20:33:50 <db48x> that'd be a cool mashup
Jul 17 20:34:05 <db48x> live traffic cams replacing google's street views
Jul 17 20:35:56 <unique311> pretty sure they have plans to do so...
Jul 17 20:36:07 <unique311> not sure how legal that would be...
Jul 17 20:36:17 <unique311> helpful for the law..
Jul 17 20:36:32 <_Shurik_> yes
Jul 17 20:36:35 <unique311> not too good for the criminals out there..
Jul 17 20:36:52 <_Shurik_> streetcam + crime
Jul 17 20:36:55 <unique311> gotta look out for the criminals..they have rights too.
Jul 17 20:36:58 <_Shurik_> I'M FEELING LUCKY
Jul 17 20:37:50 <unique311> NYC already have enough camera's on the streets...
Jul 17 20:38:09 <unique311> don't think you can go on any block without seeing a camera
Jul 17 20:38:48 <_Shurik_> I would like to have more cameras pointing into the windows of NYC
Jul 17 20:39:26 <_Shurik_> which is what google is doing anyway. I heard they patented tv with webcam. With google regime TV is watching YOU!
Jul 17 20:40:05 <db48x> it'd be perfectly legal
Jul 17 20:40:18 <db48x> anything that happens in the public can be recorded and displayed by anybody for any purpose
Jul 17 20:40:54 <unique311> says the individual who doesn't live in NY
Jul 17 20:42:30 <db48x> anything that happens inside a private building but is nevertheless visible to someone in the public right of way is also fair game
Jul 17 20:43:27 <Luria> hence the "public" thing
Jul 17 20:43:37 <unique311> are you paparazzi db48x
Jul 17 20:43:42 <db48x> no
Jul 17 20:44:13 <Luria> though it has its limitations... ir signatures, no matter how far they eminate into the "public" sphere are not fair game
Jul 17 20:44:38 <db48x> you mean like trademarks?
Jul 17 20:44:41 <db48x> logos and things?
Jul 17 20:44:42 <Luria> and nyc does not need more cameras
Jul 17 20:44:48 <Luria> no, i meant IR
Jul 17 20:44:54 <db48x> oh, right
Jul 17 20:44:56 <unique311> should apply to anything..
Jul 17 20:45:11 <db48x> that is sort of a grey area
Jul 17 20:45:18 <unique311> if i can pick up my neighbors wireless signal and surf..should be fair game
Jul 17 20:45:35 <unique311> but no they want to give you 5 to 10 years...
Jul 17 20:45:40 <db48x> yea, radio broadcasts are assumed to be publicly available, but not IR
Jul 17 20:46:02 <unique311> if a girl is changing next door...and i happen to look from my window...
Jul 17 20:46:07 <unique311> i can also serve some time...
Jul 17 20:46:36 <Luria> not grey
Jul 17 20:46:38 <Luria> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyllo_v._United_States
Jul 17 20:46:38 <unique311> not sure about that public sphere part..
Jul 17 20:46:42 <unique311> lol
Jul 17 20:52:08 <db48x> Luria: that only adds one more situation where the police have to be doubly certain to get a warrant
Jul 17 20:52:18 <db48x> Luria: it has no effect on a private citizen
Jul 17 20:52:35 <Luria> true
Jul 17 20:52:45 <timeless> anyway
Jul 17 20:52:48 <Luria> that would have to be done by legislation
Jul 17 20:52:57 <timeless> i've stuck a list of what people should do for filing microb bugs into bug 1672
Jul 17 20:53:06 <timeless> please please read that bug before filing bugs
Jul 17 20:53:11 <db48x> arrg, my build failed
Jul 17 20:53:28 <trevarthan> ok, I've read 'microb' about 20 times, and I still don't know what it is or does. Anyone?
Jul 17 20:53:31 <trevarthan> microb?
Jul 17 20:53:38 <timeless> it's the engine codename
Jul 17 20:53:38 <Luria> gaah. this vm downloads so slowly on whoevers WAP this is
Jul 17 20:53:38 <trevarthan> badmonkey
Jul 17 20:53:39 <_Monkey> badmonkey is a _Monkey that gets no biscuit!
Jul 17 20:53:47 <Luria> lol
Jul 17 20:54:02 <db48x> heh, wrong bugzilla
Jul 17 20:54:10 <timeless> db48x?
Jul 17 20:54:38 <db48x> timeless: naturally I just typed bug 1674 into my browser
Jul 17 20:54:42 <timeless> heh
Jul 17 20:54:45 <timeless> http://wiki.mozilla.org/Gtkmozembed
Jul 17 20:54:47 <trevarthan> timeless: what engine?
Jul 17 20:55:00 <timeless> trevarthan: Mozilla based browser for maemo
Jul 17 20:55:09 <guardian> good evening maemo
Jul 17 20:55:14 <Hyperion2010> what button do I have to hold during boot to get into update mode (usb)?
Jul 17 20:55:18 <trevarthan> oh. It's only for the new firmware too?
Jul 17 20:55:26 <timeless> um
Jul 17 20:55:31 <timeless> i'm running it on 3.2007-10 :)
Jul 17 20:55:37 <timeless> i'll post an explanation after i walk home
Jul 17 20:55:51 <trevarthan> k. sounds good.
Jul 17 20:56:11 <trevarthan> It's Nokia... um.... packaged?
Jul 17 20:56:20 <disq> more people will be happy if it ran on 2007he
Jul 17 20:56:35 <disq> trevarthan: i see you added some padding :)
Jul 17 20:56:43 <trevarthan> yeah. :) you like?
Jul 17 20:57:08 <disq> didn't update yet. browsing lolats
Jul 17 20:57:10 <disq> lolcats
Jul 17 20:57:39 <trevarthan> I'm in the process of trying to figure out how I'm going to extract the scrolling text part out of the Text widget so I can incorporate it into just a portion of the Song widget now. I think I'm going to make a new ScrollingText widget....
Jul 17 20:57:58 <trevarthan> It's only 5px of padding on each side. Looks better though.
Jul 17 20:58:55 <Luria> wow, did st:voyager suck. its like watching a car crash.
Jul 17 21:00:00 <trevarthan> Luria: I've been watching the new Battlestar Gallactica series lately. I think I'm the only geek on the planet that missed it when it came out. It's bloody fantastic. I think it's even better than the new Doctor Who series....
Jul 17 21:00:30 <Luria> trevarthan, thats because anything done byt the st:ds9 people is great
Jul 17 21:02:38 <timelE61i> hi db48x
Jul 17 21:02:44 <db48x> hello :)
Jul 17 21:02:58 <db48x> what client do you use on that thing?
Jul 17 21:03:01 <timelE61i> how'd it read?
Jul 17 21:03:02 <trevarthan> Luria: didn't know they were the same. I used to watch ds9 when I was a kid. I liked it. I liked Babylon5 more though.
Jul 17 21:03:19 <db48x> your rant?
Jul 17 21:03:22 <timelE61i> mIRGGI
Jul 17 21:03:36 <Luria> bab5 was great, except for the acting
Jul 17 21:03:40 * timelE61i nods
Jul 17 21:03:44 <trevarthan> :)
Jul 17 21:03:50 <db48x> it was good :)
Jul 17 21:03:56 * db48x loved bab5
Jul 17 21:05:06 <trevarthan> have you guys seen Firefly? That was a killer series while it lasted.
Jul 17 21:05:09 <timelE61i> btw, do you habe hw?
Jul 17 21:05:23 <db48x> timelE61i: you should post that sort of thing on the website
Jul 17 21:05:27 <db48x> no, I don't
Jul 17 21:05:48 <trevarthan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly_%28TV_series%29
Jul 17 21:06:03 <timelE61i> web site's official, it'd require approval...
Jul 17 21:06:14 <disq> firefly rocks
Jul 17 21:06:54 * db48x shrugs
Jul 17 21:07:39 <timelE61i> so how's your build?
Jul 17 21:08:02 <dragorn> trevarthan: firefly coming to HD this month, too, if you have dish
Jul 17 21:08:03 <Luria> but the legacy of ds9 writers/producers:battlestar, 4400, the dresden files...
Jul 17 21:08:11 <db48x> timelE61i: it failed again
Jul 17 21:08:20 <db48x> I'm giving up on mounting it from outside the vm
Jul 17 21:08:23 <trevarthan> I used to watch the old BG series when I was a kid and really, really, really, really bored. I think that's why it took me so long to start watching the new one. It had this whole 70s crappy tin robots and boredom stigma in my mind.
Jul 17 21:08:28 <db48x> I'll just have to run the vm any time I need access to the source
Jul 17 21:09:07 <db48x> oh, and it turns out the reason it was taking so long before was that it was swapping
Jul 17 21:09:13 <timelE61i> tomorrow i get to try to figure out why the set engine menu didn't install
Jul 17 21:09:15 <Luria> are people mostly working on the vm or installing scratchbox on dedicated machines?
Jul 17 21:09:20 <timelE61i> ah, heh
Jul 17 21:09:28 <db48x> the vmware guest driver had 600 megs resident, in my 256 meg virtual ram
Jul 17 21:09:28 <trevarthan> dragorn: nah, I've got MythTV, so I'm old school analog cable. I don't use it much anymore though. I think Naruto and Doctor Who are all I record. I mostly bittorrent stuff these days.
Jul 17 21:09:33 <timelE61i> i use both
Jul 17 21:10:06 <Luria> i just dont get why they made the vm so damn big
Jul 17 21:11:29 <timelE61i> ?
Jul 17 21:11:37 <Luria> the appliance
Jul 17 21:11:47 <Luria> i dont need a full ubuntu install
Jul 17 21:12:40 * dougsko thought there was a maemo vm appliance for a sec there
Jul 17 21:13:02 <Luria> ummm
Jul 17 21:13:08 <Luria> http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/702
Jul 17 21:13:40 <dougsko> heh im dumb
Jul 17 21:14:04 <Luria> no problem. just dont ask me to run your code.
Jul 17 21:14:10 <Luria> (j/k)
Jul 17 21:14:31 * trevarthan drools on himself
Jul 17 21:14:35 <dougsko> oh ok, so its basically just ubuntu with scratchbox already set up on it
Jul 17 21:14:45 <Luria> yeah
Jul 17 21:15:05 <db48x> I'm only using a vm becaause my normal os is a 64 bit linux
Jul 17 21:15:16 <Luria> if i werent lazy, id roll my own
Jul 17 21:16:14 <Luria> i found a p4/1.6 on the street the other day. when i have a chance, ill use that as a development machine.
Jul 17 21:16:25 <db48x> heh
Jul 17 21:16:32 <Luria> gotta love nyc
Jul 17 21:16:44 <Luria> pulled the hard drive tho
Jul 17 21:17:03 <Luria> but was nice enough to include the breakout cable for the 9600 AIW card
Jul 17 21:20:04 <Luria> you know, open APs used to be faster.
Jul 17 21:20:23 <db48x> heh
Jul 17 21:24:56 <unique311> hmmmmm
Jul 17 21:25:13 <unique311> gmailFS...good stuff...
Jul 17 21:25:22 <unique311> for N800/770
Jul 17 21:25:43 <dougsko> encfs ontop of gmailfs is pretty sweet too
Jul 17 21:25:52 <unique311> http://richard.jones.name/google-hacks/gmail-filesystem/gmail-filesystem.html
Jul 17 21:25:54 <db48x> heh
Jul 17 21:26:11 <unique311> gonna see if i can find the source
Jul 17 21:28:11 <Hyperion2010> wow, touchscreen actually responds on the right side now :o
Jul 17 21:29:57 <Luria> i wish there were a super tiny ap. low power transceiver, plug right into a rj45 jack like a terminator
Jul 17 21:30:09 <Luria> bonus points for PoE
Jul 17 21:30:33 <Luria> would be great to use the n800 on wired networks
Jul 17 21:32:03 <timelE61i> for audreys, we used usbethernet :)
Jul 17 21:32:35 <Hyperion2010> has anyone written a keyboard profile for the stowaway think outside keyboard?
Jul 17 21:36:56 <db48x> timelE61i: did I mention that this is the longest mozconfig file I've ever seen?
Jul 17 21:37:16 <timelE61i> heh.
Jul 17 21:37:32 <disq> i want an accelerometer addon (drop it in the serial port at the back)
Jul 17 21:37:33 <timelE61i> iirc it's mostly disasbled items
Jul 17 21:37:44 <db48x> yea
Jul 17 21:37:46 <db48x> and system libs
Jul 17 21:37:54 <timelE61i> The bad thing is quilt hacks configure too!
Jul 17 21:37:56 <db48x> and a lot of commented out lines
Jul 17 21:38:03 <db48x> really, wow
Jul 17 21:38:13 <db48x> what does it change?
Jul 17 21:38:17 <timelE61i> welcome to debian
Jul 17 21:38:31 <timelE61i> please don't ask me to remember
Jul 17 21:38:37 <db48x> heh
Jul 17 21:39:08 <timelE61i> remember, this is 3g. Which means i'm neither at home nor at work
Jul 17 21:40:47 <db48x> there are 14 patches here that modify configure.in
Jul 17 21:42:49 <db48x> --enable-microb, --enable-js-binary
Jul 17 21:43:03 <db48x> --disable-xremote
Jul 17 21:45:04 <Hyperion2010> is there hope for an implementation of the about:config searching in the new browser?
Jul 17 21:45:12 <db48x> --disable-moz-mork :)
Jul 17 21:45:30 <db48x> none of these are really terrible so far
Jul 17 21:45:39 <db48x> certainly no worse than I myself have done
Jul 17 21:45:44 <milhouse> hyperion - i guess so, the search box is there but it's not working, probably due to it's beta status
Jul 17 21:46:01 <milhouse> i just wish it had tabs :)
Jul 17 21:46:05 <db48x> --enable-embedding-tests is nice
Jul 17 21:46:35 <Hyperion2010> hehe ok
Jul 17 21:46:39 <Hyperion2010> its still better than opera :x
Jul 17 21:46:49 <db48x> well, I need to sleep
Jul 17 21:47:40 <Hyperion2010> ya, I'm hoping for tabs
Jul 17 21:47:55 <Hyperion2010> those will really be a huge productivity boost
Jul 17 21:55:51 <timelE61i> good night
Jul 17 21:59:17 <jamey> is anyone interested in patches to libosso so it will build under feisty?
Jul 17 22:03:23 <timelE61i> why wouldn't it build under feisty?
Jul 17 22:04:20 <Hyperion2010> bah, why is there no video for skype :(
Jul 17 22:08:06 <jamey> feisty's gcc seems to be stricter than whatever it was built under, or it defaults to treating warnings as errors. It does not built under feisty.
Jul 17 22:09:52 <jamey> there is a const char ** that is written and gcc does not like it
Jul 17 22:18:28 <Hyperion2010> is the open-ssh installer repository down?
Jul 17 22:25:30 <Luria> what language is best for developing on the n800? i went through the hildon howtos and its all c++, but i see lots of python apps
Jul 17 22:25:39 <edt> how do you switch between the browsers?
Jul 17 22:25:43 <Luria> (i mean gui, of course)
Jul 17 22:26:02 <edt> the docs make a ref to an 'advanced' menu.  Where is it?
Jul 17 22:26:06 <Luria> edt: ~/.browser
Jul 17 22:26:39 <Luria> change hidden:false to :true
Jul 17 22:26:39 <_Monkey> Luria: that doesn't look right
Jul 17 22:26:57 <Luria> funny, i just did it 5 minutes ago
Jul 17 22:27:20 <Luria> it adds an "engine" option to the menu
Jul 17 22:35:39 <timelE61i> Monkey: sb = not :
Jul 17 22:35:49 <edt> Luria thanks that works
Jul 17 22:36:22 <edt> think this should be enabled by default when you install the 'non beta' engine...
Jul 17 22:36:24 <timelE61i> Does garage offer a wiki?
Jul 17 22:36:46 <timelE61i> edt: it was supposed to be
Jul 17 22:37:01 <edt> not here
Jul 17 22:37:16 <timelE61i> testers failed to use a proper virgin box
Jul 17 22:37:26 <timelE61i> yes yes. Wrong supposed
Jul 17 22:37:43 <edt> is there such thing as a virgin box?
Jul 17 22:37:47 <edt> mine is not
Jul 17 22:37:52 <timelE61i> i.e. We're not bad intentioned just poorly tested
Jul 17 22:38:31 <timelE61i> i'll figure it out after i sleep
Jul 17 22:38:50 <edt> time1E61i your webpage said it was a test and that you wanted feedback - hence this
Jul 17 22:39:01 <edt> I am _very_ pleased to see this
Jul 17 22:39:38 <edt> I will be even more glad when it manages to scroll smoothly without popping up the keyboard without reason
Jul 17 22:40:01 <edt> it also buffers the scroll request so when you release the key it keeps on scrolling
Jul 17 22:40:11 <edt> which is a _pita_
Jul 17 22:40:11 <timelE61i> slightly more interested in getting notes for 3.2007 up
Jul 17 22:40:30 <edt> notes for 3.2007 ?
Jul 17 22:40:38 <timelE61i> note that feedback should mostly be in bugzilla
Jul 17 22:40:47 <edt> will do
Jul 17 22:40:55 <timelE61i> otherwise i'll never get to sleep
Jul 17 22:41:04 <edt> this is the fastest way to get help though
Jul 17 22:41:11 <timelE61i> search first, read the first few bugs
Jul 17 22:41:18 <edt> yes
Jul 17 22:41:59 <timelE61i> change browser is clearly listed in bugzilla
Jul 17 22:42:00 <_Monkey> timelE61i: that doesn't look right
Jul 17 22:42:22 <edt> I support a large sap installation at work - some of the time I work on bugs the quality of which stink.  When I enter on I try report enough to make it fixable/repeatable
Jul 17 22:43:34 <timelE61i> Monkey??
Jul 17 22:46:34 <timeless> monkey??
Jul 17 22:48:02 <rwhitby> monkey is a not-very-smart bot
Jul 17 22:48:42 <timeless> rwhitby: understatement
Jul 17 22:49:14 <timeless> ok, if anyone has os 2007 from week 10 instead of 24
Jul 17 22:49:19 <timeless> and wants to install microb
Jul 17 22:49:29 <timeless> http://webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/microb-3.2007
Jul 17 22:49:42 <timeless> => x-fade
Jul 17 22:50:31 <timeless> edt: please read bug 1672 before filing anything :)
Jul 17 23:04:08 <edt> timeless I added to 1672 since I see the same behavior
Jul 17 23:04:21 <edt> I also opened two others
Jul 17 23:04:45 <edt> one is a real bug where dpad scrolling does not stop when you release the button
Jul 17 23:04:56 <edt> the second it an enhancement request
Jul 17 23:06:38 * edt muses that its really nice to have a device like the n800 - its at least as powerful at the p100 I started to use linux on...
Jul 17 23:07:13 <timeless> edt: grumble
Jul 17 23:07:26 <timeless> what part of "url is not optional" did you miss?
Jul 17 23:07:34 <timeless> if you want to talk about random events, spam somewhere else
Jul 17 23:07:49 <timeless> if the problem is that it happens on heavy pages
Jul 17 23:07:52 <timeless> then provide a heavy page
Jul 17 23:08:34 <timeless> the zoom stuff is a bit of a mess
Jul 17 23:08:42 <timeless> it's a known mess
Jul 17 23:09:10 <edt> timeless please be specific and I will gladly supply some examples that cause the problem?  Are you talking about the scrolling issue?
Jul 17 23:09:51 <timeless> yes
Jul 17 23:10:12 <timeless> please fill in the url field
Jul 17 23:14:01 <edt> will do - thats one reason I mentioned the new bug here... I posted a url btw it also triggers 1672
Jul 17 23:14:40 <timeless> edt: i get bugmail for all bugs in the component
Jul 17 23:14:46 <timeless> and i notice them pretty much instantly
Jul 17 23:15:11 <edt> timeless I suspect you will be a very busy person for the next couple of days...
Jul 17 23:15:19 * timeless shrugs
Jul 17 23:15:52 <edt> Its not a bad thing if it means the product get better fast
Jul 17 23:16:01 <timeless> most of the bugs people will file already exist internally
Jul 17 23:16:09 <timeless> and most aren't fixed because they're nontrivial
Jul 17 23:16:23 <timeless> saving zoom state for instance
Jul 17 23:16:30 <timeless> the state stuff is managed by gecko
Jul 17 23:16:33 <edt> timeless why not get some of these posted externally?
Jul 17 23:16:50 <edt> I would save some time on both sides
Jul 17 23:16:55 <timeless> and has rules for storing which don't match the ones the ui eng wants
Jul 17 23:17:03 <Veggen> mmf, any idea what codecs the sip on the n800 communication beta supports?
Jul 17 23:17:13 <timeless> well, for one, most of the bugs in the internal bugzilla aren't much better than the external one will get
Jul 17 23:17:14 <Veggen> Can't get it to talk to my cell phone (via Asterisk)
Jul 17 23:17:23 <timeless> for another, i don't have people to do it
Jul 17 23:17:39 <timeless> and most suckily, i have people who demand i maintain bugs in the internal bugzilla
Jul 17 23:17:44 <edt> timeless ask for help on maemo.org
Jul 17 23:17:52 <timeless> believe me, i'd love to kill off the internal bugzilla
Jul 17 23:18:07 <timeless> but i can't, because of rules relating to non nokians
Jul 17 23:18:26 <timeless> so, no one here has an n800 not running the latest software?
Jul 17 23:19:37 <edt> what is the restriction an nda?  you could probably get some of us to sign if we gain something (maybe just more access) from the transaction.
Jul 17 23:20:03 <timeless> no
Jul 17 23:20:20 <timeless> it's that the non employees aren't generally allowed to interact w/ the public
Jul 17 23:20:20 <edt> for instance I would love to know why 4bit and 48m support was disabled on the 4.2007 kernel mmc support
Jul 17 23:20:39 <timeless> general contracting rules say that contractees can't really disclose they exist
Jul 17 23:20:44 <timeless> to whom they contract, or what they do
Jul 17 23:21:04 <timeless> plus they'd have to know what they can't say
Jul 17 23:21:19 <timeless> having watched us try to maintain a *small* gateway to another company
Jul 17 23:21:25 <timeless> using only 2-3 people as gateways
Jul 17 23:21:30 <edt> you need a new class of people to work with opensource nda(ed) volunteers
Jul 17 23:21:35 <timeless> where those people *did* know what they weren't supposed to say
Jul 17 23:21:54 <timeless> they still messed up on at least a couple of occassions :(
Jul 17 23:22:50 <timeless> yeah, if i could get people like that, it'd be great... it's not actually impossible
Jul 17 23:23:26 <edt> I know the kernel people have a setup for driver devs that works along these lines
Jul 17 23:24:21 <edt> so you can get help with drivers with devs under an nda with the end result that a gpl driver appears in the kernel
Jul 17 23:27:08 <edt> timeless would you know if nokia has talked to the devs of the pilot app mplayer?  They have codecs working for the pilot that do not (yet) work on the n800?
Jul 17 23:27:30 <Radar> mmm mozilla awesome
Jul 17 23:27:38 <timeless> edt: sorry
Jul 17 23:27:48 <timeless> i don't know anything about pilot, mplayer
Jul 17 23:28:10 <edt> a little help to the mplayer devs could really benefit nokia
Jul 17 23:28:23 * edt get a url for timeless
Jul 17 23:28:35 <timeless> edt: atm i need to find someone who can help me w/ gstreamer :(
Jul 17 23:28:41 <timeless> but i need to sleep first
Jul 17 23:29:11 <disq> <- need help w/ pygtk
Jul 17 23:29:26 <edt> timeless see http://www.mmplayer.com/
Jul 17 23:29:27 <disq> or generic gtk would also do i guess
Jul 17 23:29:45 <edt> they have a media player on omap supporting lots of codecs
Jul 17 23:30:14 <edt> If they could be encouraged to dev on an n800 we would all benefit
Jul 17 23:30:24 <Radar> gonna try setting up tversity tonight
Jul 17 23:32:00 <edt> timeless I have found gstreamer to be a temperamental app on normal linux...  think that any stable app that supports lots of codecs would be a good thing even if it does not use gstreamer
Jul 17 23:32:36 <unique311> well my go at gmailfs is a no go
Jul 17 23:33:09 * timeless shrugs
Jul 17 23:33:28 <edt> as you well know its not hard to get the n800 to use different apps for specific mime types / file extensions (just two files in most cases from what I have seen)
Jul 17 23:33:30 <timeless> gecko's getting ogg w/o gstreamer
Jul 17 23:33:51 <timeless> i need it switched to gstreamer
Jul 17 23:36:09 <edt> timeless have you talked with Greg KH <greg@kroah.com>?  He might be able to help atleast on the driver side (he started the offer to get nda(ed) dev to build gpl(ed) drivers)
Jul 17 23:37:28 <edt> btw I do not expect answers to all the questions - know that nda limit what you can say..
Jul 17 23:39:07 <edt> I have a cousin working for the RCMP (Royal Canadian Mounted Police) and talking to him about any sort of covert stuff is quite funny as there are questions he will not/cannot react to.
Jul 17 23:40:10 * edt notes that fast typing leads to really bad grammar...
Jul 17 23:46:42 <edt> timeless supper time here - sleep well!
Jul 17 23:47:33 <unique311> this is a pretty cool site...www2.goowy.com
Jul 17 23:47:36 <unique311> try out the demo
Jul 17 23:57:21 <Radar> vnc a success, tversity not so much
Jul 18 00:10:49 <Radar> woo, tversity working.. awesome
Jul 18 00:50:08 <NeoStrider> hello folks!
Jul 18 00:59:26 <eichi_N800> is there a poodcast app for maemo?
Jul 18 00:59:43 <disq> there's gpodder
Jul 18 00:59:46 <disq> check in garage
Jul 18 01:01:01 <NeoStrider> i forgot...how to extract the files of a deb package?
Jul 18 01:04:13 <eichi_N800> NeoStrider, gooogle is your friend...?
Jul 18 01:04:32 <NeoStrider> not really...im a enemy of the empire =-P
Jul 18 01:05:16 <eichi_N800> then try nuts....is it the name ...?
Jul 18 01:05:18 <NeoStrider> did it
Jul 18 01:05:25 <NeoStrider> file roller
Jul 18 01:16:58 <fsmw> good night everybody
Jul 18 01:18:06 <NeoStrider> good night
Jul 18 01:18:07 <fsmw> i can't do apt-get update, it can't resolve the repository, i've been googling for a while but the solutions and work arround doesn't works
Jul 18 01:18:22 <fsmw> apt-get update under SB
Jul 18 01:20:11 <eichi_N800> disq, is there no repo? just install deb from the side....?
Jul 18 01:20:44 <disq> eichi_N800: yeah, probably
Jul 18 01:22:16 <disq> night, bedtime
Jul 18 01:30:41 <fsmw> problem solved, my friend murrayc did it http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-users/2007-March/000906.html
Jul 18 01:32:58 <eichi_N800> howw to change, what happens, if open the camera of the n800
Jul 18 01:33:22 <eichi_N800> i dont want to start the messager than
Jul 18 01:35:21 <eichi_N800> an i want to deactive the second messanger/mail icon..or  change them
Jul 18 02:54:58 <pupnik> morning!
Jul 18 02:54:59 <_Monkey> aloha
Jul 18 02:55:34 <atomik> sup yall
Jul 18 02:55:53 <atomik> just what i was looking for, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/os2007on770/
Jul 18 02:55:58 * pupnik ponders breakfast options... Chicken, Duck, Pork, Shrimp, Kim-Chi, Beef or Spicy rice Ramen
Jul 18 02:57:00 <pupnik> hmm firefox developer?
Jul 18 02:57:25 <pupnik> have you guys tried windowmaker on nokia 770/800?
Jul 18 02:57:34 <pupnik> or roxbox whatever?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jul 18 02:59:59 2007