**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Aug 10 02:59:57 2007
Aug 10 03:02:21 <sparr> a hardware keyboard is nice, but not uber important with a touch screen
Aug 10 03:02:30 <sparr> now, a device like the gp2x with no touchscreen...  THAT needs a keyboard
Aug 10 03:10:26 <unique311> paint program that compiled for the N800...mypaint is really nice, so is rgbpaint
Aug 10 03:10:33 <unique311> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBu7srp0WPs
Aug 10 03:10:54 <pauliukas> lket's see
Aug 10 03:11:53 <unique311> rgbpaint has its issues, but look fixable to the knowing.
Aug 10 03:12:35 <unique311> mypaint, i love the brushes, and also how you can make your own brushes.
Aug 10 03:12:54 <unique311> pressure sensitivity rocks on it also.
Aug 10 03:13:02 <pauliukas> whaaaa
Aug 10 03:13:11 <pauliukas> n800 has pressure sensitivity?
Aug 10 03:13:28 <pupnik_> i haven't seen an app that uses it
Aug 10 03:13:29 <unique311> i guess it works with mypaint
Aug 10 03:13:39 <pauliukas> hah.
Aug 10 03:13:43 <pauliukas> How about 770
Aug 10 03:13:43 <_Monkey> i heard 770 was so cheap right now.  is there any reason to go for the 800 instead if all i'm doing is running the web browser only?
Aug 10 03:13:46 <unique311> look at the video
Aug 10 03:13:57 <unique311> not sure how its going to fair with the 770
Aug 10 03:14:01 <pauliukas> ah
Aug 10 03:14:04 <erstazi> ugh
Aug 10 03:14:15 <unique311> had to take out a line for it to stop crashing on the n800
Aug 10 03:14:22 <pauliukas> erstazi: Yes?
Aug 10 03:14:32 <erstazi> so when I actually get around to porting pocketsphinx, who wants to test it?
Aug 10 03:14:36 <pauliukas> I still didn't get OpenSSH on it, LOL. Can't find it.
Aug 10 03:14:38 <pauliukas> What's that?
Aug 10 03:14:43 <erstazi> openssh?
Aug 10 03:14:44 <_Monkey> i heard openssh was a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/openssh/
Aug 10 03:14:50 <erstazi> pauliukas, ^^
Aug 10 03:14:52 <pauliukas> right... same error.
Aug 10 03:15:04 <pauliukas> Gives me a "Not found?" dialog
Aug 10 03:15:21 <milhouse> paul - open xterm, sudo gainroot, apt-get install ssh
Aug 10 03:15:23 <erstazi> pocketsphinx is an app that allows you to have speech to text
Aug 10 03:15:37 <erstazi> and I need to be able to understand how to change the input method
Aug 10 03:15:43 <pauliukas> Lemme boot it up and try.
Aug 10 03:15:53 <pauliukas> But why would I want OpenSSH instead of dropbear?
Aug 10 03:15:53 <milhouse> install ssh at the command line... you can install it via red pill mode but if you've got root access and xterm installed it's easier via the command line
Aug 10 03:15:56 <erstazi> which is somewhere under ~/.osso
Aug 10 03:16:03 <erstazi> pauliukas, I prefer openssh
Aug 10 03:16:03 <pauliukas> Isn't OpenSSH bigger and takes more RAM>
Aug 10 03:16:08 <pauliukas> Well, why exactly?
Aug 10 03:16:20 <erstazi> easier to config
Aug 10 03:16:25 <pauliukas> ...
Aug 10 03:16:27 <erstazi> less hassle
Aug 10 03:16:32 <erstazi> more space absorbed
Aug 10 03:16:32 <pauliukas> And can I control if it starts at boot or no
Aug 10 03:16:49 <erstazi> pauliukas, it starts automatically if you boot
Aug 10 03:16:58 <pauliukas> What if I don't want it to.
Aug 10 03:17:02 <pauliukas> To give more RAM to other apps.
Aug 10 03:17:10 <pauliukas> I bet you it's like 5MB RAM or so.
Aug 10 03:17:19 <erstazi> I don't know
Aug 10 03:17:26 <milhouse> pauliukas: fair question... i prefer ssh as it's a single install (i believe dropbear has a server and a seperate client component), ssh is "standardised" (openssh on my n800/770 is the same as open ssh on my Ubuntu server) and frankly ssh just works. it also has scp built in (for file transfer)
Aug 10 03:17:38 <pauliukas> gotcha.
Aug 10 03:17:40 <unique311> pupnik_, mypaint use pressure sensitivity...and it works on the N800
Aug 10 03:17:55 <pupnik_> mypaint looks a bit slower than mtpaint/rgbpaint, but it's doing alpha blended brushes
Aug 10 03:18:25 <sparr> can anyone here run maemochron?  what python lib has the 'parsers' module?
Aug 10 03:18:31 <unique311> again, rgbpaint is minimal...
Aug 10 03:18:53 <unique311> i was having issues wrtting sideways with the stylus
Aug 10 03:18:54 <erstazi> milhouse typed it correct
Aug 10 03:18:58 <unique311> on mypaint.
Aug 10 03:19:00 <erstazi> I have it on ubuntu and it works great
Aug 10 03:19:08 <unique311> but its not slow at all
Aug 10 03:19:22 <unique311> some of the brushes suck..
Aug 10 03:19:24 <pauliukas> And how do I start it for the first time?
Aug 10 03:19:35 <pauliukas> I'm also getting a few errors on the terminal... But I'm assuming that's normal
Aug 10 03:19:39 <unique311> but you can delete the brushes you don't need and make new ones..
Aug 10 03:19:51 <pupnik_> great vid thanks
Aug 10 03:20:13 <unique311> np
Aug 10 03:20:50 <pauliukas> So what's the username and login to it?
Aug 10 03:21:18 <pauliukas> or do I just create one?
Aug 10 03:22:14 <pupnik_> root user password is 'rootme'  normal user name is 'user'
Aug 10 03:22:35 <pauliukas> I just changed the root pass. Is that bad?
Aug 10 03:22:40 <pupnik_> no
Aug 10 03:22:43 <pauliukas> Oh, gotcha.
Aug 10 03:22:44 <_Monkey> i think gotcha is you have to patch the system fonts
Aug 10 03:22:50 <pauliukas> Should I make pass for user aswell?
Aug 10 03:23:05 <pupnik_> i do - doesn't break anything
Aug 10 03:23:29 <pauliukas> I mean... you know.
Aug 10 03:23:37 <pauliukas> If I'm on a public network.
Aug 10 03:23:44 <pauliukas> Don't want anyone bruteforcing my SSH
Aug 10 03:23:44 <erstazi> passwd user
Aug 10 03:23:45 <erstazi> do it
Aug 10 03:23:51 <erstazi> passwd root
Aug 10 03:23:52 <erstazi> change it
Aug 10 03:23:53 <_Monkey> erstazi: that doesn't look right
Aug 10 03:24:09 <pauliukas> Now...
Aug 10 03:24:10 <erstazi> I quited monkey
Aug 10 03:24:12 <sparr> is there a stylus calibration tool that lets you move the cursor relative to the stylus in realtime?
Aug 10 03:24:14 <erstazi> bia
Aug 10 03:24:25 <erstazi> sparr, for what device?
Aug 10 03:24:27 <pauliukas> What can I do with SSH? Any neat 770 stuff?
Aug 10 03:24:38 <erstazi> the 770 has a screen calibration tool
Aug 10 03:24:47 <sparr> erstazi: well, i would assume if it existed it would work with any X handheld
Aug 10 03:24:50 <erstazi> pauliukas, yeah, I use ssh everyday for my business
Aug 10 03:25:03 <pauliukas> I meant with the 770
Aug 10 03:25:07 <sparr> erstazi: i am unhappy with "normal" calibration tools
Aug 10 03:25:14 <pauliukas> I'm a server administrator... I live by SSH.
Aug 10 03:25:20 <unique311> the video is screwed up...the way i was writing with the stylus definitely made mypaint look  crappy
Aug 10 03:25:24 <erstazi> sparr, I am satisfied, they did a great job for what it is costing
Aug 10 03:25:36 <erstazi> pauliukas, then with openssh, you can do it
Aug 10 03:25:40 <sparr> erstazi: so is that a no?
Aug 10 03:25:50 <pauliukas> I know... but I meant... eh, nevermind.
Aug 10 03:25:56 <erstazi> sparr, there are third party ones, I never used them
Aug 10 03:26:14 <erstazi> I am a bit tipsy so don't mind me
Aug 10 03:26:29 <pauliukas> oh geez. I think I lost your repos link, erstazi
Aug 10 03:26:56 <erstazi> http://c-wd.net/sources.list
Aug 10 03:27:05 <pauliukas> thanks
Aug 10 03:27:10 <erstazi> I need to move all that maemo stuff to its own directory
Aug 10 03:27:13 <erstazi> I shall do it now
Aug 10 03:27:20 <sparr> erstazi: my problem is that in a calibration tool im too anal, my behavior there never matches my behavior in a game correctly
Aug 10 03:27:40 <erstazi> sparr, for an n800?
Aug 10 03:27:43 <erstazi> or 770?
Aug 10 03:27:43 <_Monkey> 770 is so cheap right now.  is there any reason to go for the 800 instead if all i'm doing is running the web browser only?
Aug 10 03:27:58 <erstazi> _Monkey, forget 770
Aug 10 03:27:59 <sparr> 770
Aug 10 03:27:59 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot 770
Aug 10 03:28:10 <erstazi> sparr, I don't play games on mine
Aug 10 03:28:21 <sparr> i do
Aug 10 03:28:40 <pauliukas> does "forget everything" work?
Aug 10 03:28:47 <pauliukas> Any good games to recommend?
Aug 10 03:29:10 <sparr> openttd (transport tycoon deluxe)
Aug 10 03:29:17 <sparr> freeciv
Aug 10 03:29:21 <sparr> nethack
Aug 10 03:29:42 <pauliukas> And they have ports for the 770?
Aug 10 03:29:44 <pauliukas> Anything else/
Aug 10 03:29:46 <pauliukas> ?
Aug 10 03:29:46 <pupnik_> unique311: depends on what you like to play
Aug 10 03:30:11 <pauliukas> Geez. I want nano on this thing.
Aug 10 03:30:14 * pauliukas don't like vi.
Aug 10 03:30:27 <erstazi> pauliukas, nano works
Aug 10 03:30:28 <sparr> sgt-puzzles is a package of single player puzzle/logic games, if you like things like sudoku then its cool
Aug 10 03:30:32 <erstazi> I use nano sometimes
Aug 10 03:30:33 <sparr> then install nano  :)
Aug 10 03:30:33 <erstazi> sometimes vi
Aug 10 03:30:35 <erstazi> depends on the mood
Aug 10 03:30:41 <erstazi> nano?
Aug 10 03:30:41 <_Monkey> rumour has it nano is a tiny text editor. Needs xterm/ssh. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/nano/
Aug 10 03:30:42 <pauliukas> need to get your souces.list first.
Aug 10 03:30:49 <erstazi> pauliukas, ^^
Aug 10 03:30:51 <pauliukas> oh
Aug 10 03:31:11 <erstazi> dude I got bored so I became busy, I loaded _Monkey with responses
Aug 10 03:31:13 <pupnik_> penguin command is almost done
Aug 10 03:31:13 <unique311> pupnik_, let me know if you are going to try it out for the 770
Aug 10 03:31:22 <unique311> might have to modify a file
Aug 10 03:31:28 <pupnik_> unique311: i can't find a .deb source for mypaint
Aug 10 03:31:34 <pupnik_> did you get it from ubuntu?
Aug 10 03:31:36 <sparr> i installed nano-tiny...  im not a nano user, so i dont know if ill miss the features
Aug 10 03:31:39 <sparr> pauliukas: http://rafb.net/p/SWdz6553.txt
Aug 10 03:31:39 <unique311> gtkmydrawwidget.c
Aug 10 03:31:44 <unique311> yeah
Aug 10 03:31:48 <unique311> hold on pupnik_
Aug 10 03:32:07 <pauliukas> which one should I use... yours or erstazi's :-p
Aug 10 03:32:11 <pupnik_> that airbrush looks like exactly what i want for sketching
Aug 10 03:32:25 <unique311> pupnik_, http://www.getdeb.net/search.php?keywords=mypaint
Aug 10 03:32:31 <sparr> they should be mostly the same
Aug 10 03:32:40 <sparr> order notwithstanding
Aug 10 03:33:08 <sparr> doom for the 770 is fun, but not exactly a great game.  descent might be better, i gotta get data files to try it
Aug 10 03:33:12 <sparr> i miss my gp2x  :(
Aug 10 03:33:24 <unique311> pupnik_, gtkmydrawwidget.c might need to remove line 202, got crashes from that.
Aug 10 03:33:27 <erstazi> pauliukas, honestly, they should be the same
Aug 10 03:33:31 <sparr> the 770 is far superior for non-gaming...  but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned
Aug 10 03:33:33 <unique311> not sure why
Aug 10 03:33:36 <pupnik_> sparr we gotta port all that gp2x goodness
Aug 10 03:33:41 <sparr> no chance
Aug 10 03:33:46 <pupnik_> ok thanks unique311
Aug 10 03:33:46 <sparr> too different
Aug 10 03:33:51 <sparr> touch screen vs not
Aug 10 03:33:51 <unique311> np
Aug 10 03:33:57 <erstazi> I want to port some liquor in my belly
Aug 10 03:34:00 <sparr> 12 input buttons vs ~5
Aug 10 03:34:02 <erstazi> Jack daniels...
Aug 10 03:34:16 <pupnik_> sparr i hope to prove you wrong someday
Aug 10 03:34:20 <pupnik_> but it's not easy :)
Aug 10 03:34:31 <sparr> although
Aug 10 03:34:35 <sparr> i did port enigma to the gp2x
Aug 10 03:34:45 <sparr> THAT would make a fun game on the 770
Aug 10 03:34:58 <pupnik_> never heard of it
Aug 10 03:35:03 <sparr> go install it on your desktop
Aug 10 03:35:04 <sparr> now.
Aug 10 03:35:10 <pupnik_> lets get drpocketsnes sparr
Aug 10 03:35:28 <sparr> bah @ snes.  only good for RPGs, as you said.  and it will be slow as hell
Aug 10 03:35:53 <pupnik_> snes9x is almost playable - drpocketsnes should be 2x faster
Aug 10 03:36:24 <sparr> i am doubtful
Aug 10 03:36:35 <sparr> different definitions of "playable"  :)
Aug 10 03:36:41 <sparr> i require sound and 10fps+ minimum
Aug 10 03:36:47 <sparr> on non-trivial games
Aug 10 03:36:51 <pupnik_> :) i was getting 25+fps on pacman
Aug 10 03:36:51 <pupnik_> ok
Aug 10 03:37:38 <erstazi> pacman, never let that touch my 770, my wife will take it and never give it back
Aug 10 03:37:39 <sparr> if my gp2x hadnt been stolen, i probably wouldnt have bought a 770
Aug 10 03:38:01 <erstazi> gp2x stolen?
Aug 10 03:38:29 <sparr> was in a psp case, attached to my belt.  someone cut it off me in a crowd.  i wish i could have seen his face when he opened it and it wasnt a psp
Aug 10 03:38:48 <erstazi> what is a gp2x?
Aug 10 03:38:49 <_Monkey> a gp2x is probably too weak
Aug 10 03:38:54 <sparr> rofl
Aug 10 03:39:04 <unique311> pupnik_, did you say pacman?
Aug 10 03:39:04 <erstazi> _Monkey, forget gp2x
Aug 10 03:39:04 <sparr> imagine if the 770 was designed for gaming instead of internet  :)
Aug 10 03:39:05 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot gp2x
Aug 10 03:39:10 <sparr> _Monkey: botsnack
Aug 10 03:39:11 <_Monkey> :)
Aug 10 03:39:20 <erstazi> sparr, aye
Aug 10 03:39:23 <pupnik_> yeah public domain pacman from zophars runs great
Aug 10 03:39:41 <erstazi> heh
Aug 10 03:39:48 <unique311> nice
Aug 10 03:39:50 <sparr> gp2x is a handheld gaming system.  runs linux, very open source and open platform.  two 200-250MHz ARM cores (one 920, one 940)
Aug 10 03:40:06 <sparr> SD storage, usb host, tv-out
Aug 10 03:40:26 <pupnik_> http://www.zophar.net/roms.phtml?op=show&type=snes  << snes pacman is here
Aug 10 03:40:28 <sparr> has the largest homebrew community that i know of
Aug 10 03:40:33 <erstazi> ah
Aug 10 03:40:33 <sparr> since the zodiac community died out
Aug 10 03:40:48 <erstazi> I am new to the embedded community
Aug 10 03:40:56 <sparr> the perfect gaming handheld is somewhere between the 770, gp2x, and nds...  i wish someone would build it :)
Aug 10 03:40:58 <erstazi> but other communities, I am not new
Aug 10 03:41:02 <sparr> oh, and the PSP
Aug 10 03:41:12 <sparr> i hate the PSP in so many ways, but they got a FEW things right
Aug 10 03:41:17 <erstazi> do people flash the psp and put linux on it?
Aug 10 03:41:30 <sparr> dunno about linux on the psp, but there are hacks for it to run homebrew
Aug 10 03:41:36 <erstazi> a
Aug 10 03:41:38 <erstazi> ah*
Aug 10 03:42:22 <erstazi> ugh
Aug 10 03:45:56 <sparr> http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/gnuab/debian/pool-armel/main/h/hexedit/hexedit_1.2.12-2_armel.deb
Aug 10 03:46:00 <sparr> if anyone needs a console hex editor
Aug 10 03:46:04 <sparr> that works
Aug 10 03:46:19 <sparr> gotta --force it to install, it "depends" on newer libc6, but it does work
Aug 10 03:50:35 <sparr> tscalibrate and pointercall have one glaring deficiency...  they user a linear transformation with no allowance for non-linear correction.  which means with a typical stylus and handheld, its impossible to tap the outer few pixels of the screen because of how the stylus touches the case and screen
Aug 10 03:50:54 <sparr> i hate that
Aug 10 03:51:13 <sparr> cant hit any pixels less than [stylus_radius] from the edge of the screen
Aug 10 03:51:18 <pupnik_> cool
Aug 10 03:51:29 <sparr> note to self: get sharper stylus
Aug 10 03:53:43 <pupnik_> i tried enigma and the mouse control was hard to figure out
Aug 10 03:53:49 <||cw2> i've never seen a handheld UI designed in such a way that it was required to tap anything that close to the edge of the screen
Aug 10 03:59:54 <unique311> note to self, get better screen protector..
Aug 10 03:59:58 <unique311> those things suck
Aug 10 03:59:59 <sparr> pupnik_: the mouse is unfortunately required on some of the quirkier levels.  my gp2x port used a joypad, so those levels were simply unplayable
Aug 10 04:00:05 <unique311> for the n800
Aug 10 04:00:20 <unique311> i like the original that came with the device.
Aug 10 04:00:30 <sparr> ||cw2: openttd windows have VERY small close buttons, and they are often on the left edge of the screen.
Aug 10 04:00:42 <sparr> very small as in 6 pixels, maybe 8
Aug 10 04:01:34 <pupnik_> i have cursor visible and can tap to the very edge of the screen
Aug 10 04:02:24 <sparr> how do you get the cursor?
Aug 10 04:02:54 <sparr> and...  tapping the edge of the screen is not impossible...  its just impossible if you precisely calibrate the middle.
Aug 10 04:03:01 <pupnik_> hmm
Aug 10 04:03:27 <pupnik_> i ran a script that created iconsBAK
Aug 10 04:03:45 <sparr> tscalibrate puts the crosshairs like 3/4 of the way out from the center...  so if your "dead" area of the touchscreen is 4 pixels wide then you can tap the crosshair 3 pixels off in the other direction and gain access to the edge, at the cost of making the whole screen slightly less accurate
Aug 10 04:04:17 <pupnik_> mv  "/home/user/.icons" "/home/user/iconsBAK"
Aug 10 04:04:21 <erstazi> sparr, write a better screen calibration?
Aug 10 04:04:43 <sparr> erstazi: wont work.  the concept of linear calibration is built into X.
Aug 10 04:04:52 <erstazi> sparr, rewrite X?
Aug 10 04:04:54 <pupnik_> you have a defective touchscreen?
Aug 10 04:05:03 <sparr> yeah, thats what it would take
Aug 10 04:05:06 <sparr> pupnik_: no
Aug 10 04:05:12 <sparr> i think my dead area is only 1-2 pixels
Aug 10 04:05:12 <erstazi> haha, millions of man hours
Aug 10 04:05:20 <sparr> because the LCD doesnt actually go all the way to the bezel
Aug 10 04:05:39 <sparr> the distance from the bezel to the display is almost as far as the radius of the stylus
Aug 10 04:05:41 <erstazi> it would be too resource hungry and also eat up battery life
Aug 10 04:06:00 <sparr> im gonna get my camera  :)
Aug 10 04:06:32 <erstazi> who maintains povbot?
Aug 10 04:12:19 <unique311> pupnik, that iconsBAK script is my invention...yeah its being used..
Aug 10 04:12:42 <pupnik> it's better than the way i was doing it before
Aug 10 04:12:43 <unique311> originally..forgot who helped me with that script.
Aug 10 04:12:57 <unique311> jani i think it was
Aug 10 04:13:15 <pupnik> what's the ImportError: No module named mydrawwidget
Aug 10 04:13:28 <pupnik> hwo did you install
Aug 10 04:13:41 <unique311> run autogen.sh first
Aug 10 04:13:45 <unique311> and then configure
Aug 10 04:13:48 <unique311> then make
Aug 10 04:13:53 <unique311> the make install
Aug 10 04:14:09 <pupnik> that installs it to scratchbox
Aug 10 04:14:13 <unique311> yes
Aug 10 04:14:26 <unique311> ok
Aug 10 04:14:51 <glizitch> so can the 770 run anything coded for linux ?
Aug 10 04:14:58 <unique311> you have to move the contents of lib/python2.3 to python2.5
Aug 10 04:15:01 <pupnik> i copied the stuff from /usr/share over
Aug 10 04:15:06 <unique311> i know
Aug 10 04:15:09 <glizitch> if it has the power i mean
Aug 10 04:15:10 <unique311> hold on
Aug 10 04:15:20 <sparr> glizitch: no
Aug 10 04:15:45 <sparr> glizitch: a lot of software depends on libraries that havent been, and probably wont ever be, ported
Aug 10 04:15:53 <glizitch> i see
Aug 10 04:15:54 <sparr> armel is not a popular target
Aug 10 04:15:58 <glizitch> right
Aug 10 04:16:17 <unique311> pupnik, you need to move the contents of /usr/lib to python 2.5 folder.
Aug 10 04:16:25 <glizitch> why do i hear about ppl
Aug 10 04:16:35 <glizitch> playing day of the tentacle
Aug 10 04:16:37 <unique311> its actually
Aug 10 04:16:41 <glizitch> and other old games
Aug 10 04:16:50 <pupnik> scummvm
Aug 10 04:16:51 <glizitch> have they been ported ?
Aug 10 04:17:06 <sparr> scummvm has been ported
Aug 10 04:17:13 <sparr> scumm was the engine those games ran on
Aug 10 04:17:23 <sparr> theres also a NES emulator, so you can play NES games
Aug 10 04:17:28 <glizitch> sparr: awesome
Aug 10 04:17:35 <glizitch> i got the nes emu working
Aug 10 04:17:49 <glizitch> so i want scumm
Aug 10 04:17:55 <glizitch> ?
Aug 10 04:17:57 <unique311> pupnik, mv -R usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/python2.3   /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/
Aug 10 04:18:45 <unique311> pupnik, mv -R usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/mypaint   /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/mypaint
Aug 10 04:19:07 <unique311> the second one
Aug 10 04:19:07 <_Monkey> the second one is, like, more of a js shell implemented in javascript for use w/ telnet
Aug 10 04:19:30 <unique311> feck you monkey
Aug 10 04:20:00 <erstazi> _Monkey, forget the second one
Aug 10 04:20:01 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot second one
Aug 10 04:20:35 <pupnik> thanks unique311
Aug 10 04:21:00 <unique311> np
Aug 10 04:21:04 <glizitch> what games are scumm compatible ?
Aug 10 04:21:33 <pupnik> scumm homepage
Aug 10 04:22:03 <glizitch> nm
Aug 10 04:22:05 <glizitch> i foudn it
Aug 10 04:22:12 <glizitch> www.scummvm.org
Aug 10 04:22:31 <pupnik> "Beneath a steel sky" and "flight of the amazon queen" are legally downloadable
Aug 10 04:23:08 <glizitch> from where ?
Aug 10 04:23:18 <pupnik> debian mirrors
Aug 10 04:23:34 <glizitch> which are where ?
Aug 10 04:23:56 <pupnik> all over the planet :)
Aug 10 04:24:22 <glizitch> can u point me in the right direction
Aug 10 04:24:26 <glizitch> sheesh
Aug 10 04:24:27 <glizitch> hehe
Aug 10 04:24:58 <pupnik> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22beneath+a+steel+sky%22+scummvm+download
Aug 10 04:26:00 <glizitch> thanx
Aug 10 04:27:51 <pupnik> heh or can buy it used for 22-28 gbp (30-40 euro?) :0
Aug 10 04:27:51 <erstazi> UKMP
Aug 10 04:30:15 <unique311> pupnik, whats the status of mypaint on the 770?
Aug 10 04:31:08 <pupnik> not working
Aug 10 04:31:25 <unique311> get any errors?
Aug 10 04:31:57 <pupnik> yes the one i pasted - the files weren't where you described
Aug 10 04:32:43 <pupnik> but it was helpful, i didn't know about that python directory
Aug 10 04:34:07 <unique311> so after you corrected the python directory...
Aug 10 04:34:14 <unique311> it should've worked
Aug 10 05:03:01 <pupnik> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/31/1629259  Germany outlaws 'hacker tools'
Aug 10 05:03:12 <pupnik> traceroute has already been removed from one distribution
Aug 10 05:03:31 <pupnik> They are deliberately transferring power from the Judicial Branch to the Executive Branch in order to appear "tough" on crime. When it's impractical to enforce a law that is broken by many people, the Executive Branch doesn't enforce it, unless they need an excuse to bust someone they don't like, or to search someone they're suspicious of. This gap between what is commonly enforced and what CAN be enforced, I like to call "The Facade
Aug 10 05:04:29 <pupnik> All you need for tyranny is to pass laws that make most people criminals
Aug 10 05:04:37 <pupnik> then you have arbitrary power of enforcement
Aug 10 05:05:03 <pupnik> maybe this is why the tablets don't have 'ping'
Aug 10 05:06:33 <milhouse> ping is in 4.2007 on n800 :)
Aug 10 05:06:42 <pupnik> oh noes!
Aug 10 05:53:35 <timelyx> erstazi: i was the owner of an infobot on another server. the bot sorta runs w/o me now
Aug 10 05:54:01 <erstazi> ah
Aug 10 05:54:40 <timelyx> X-Fade: some days i skip a sleep cycle. when you asked, that night was one of them
Aug 10 05:55:07 <timelyx> _Monkey: escapepod?
Aug 10 05:55:07 <_Monkey> escapepod is ok
Aug 10 05:55:30 <erstazi> escapepod.com
Aug 10 05:57:44 <timelyx> _Monkey: i heard the 770?
Aug 10 05:57:45 <_Monkey> timelyx: i don't know
Aug 10 05:59:54 <timelyx> _Monkey: forget escapepod
Aug 10 05:59:55 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot escapepod
Aug 10 06:00:27 <timelyx> _Monkey: escapepod is http://www.escapepod.org and also a popular flash crasher for microb
Aug 10 06:00:28 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Aug 10 06:12:54 <pupnik> timelyx: relevance of site? :)
Aug 10 06:18:10 <timelyx> pupnik: it was only mentioned because it crashes ;)
Aug 10 06:18:41 <timelyx> oops
Aug 10 06:18:48 <pupnik> ok i thought it was a deliberate browsercrash site
Aug 10 06:24:42 <timelyx> Application Manager is maemo's GUI over apt
Aug 10 06:25:21 <pupnik> y
Aug 10 06:26:16 <timelyx> _Monkey: milhouse's username?
Aug 10 06:26:16 <_Monkey> milhouse's username is UBSSuck (erm... a little investment bank i once worked for...)
Aug 10 06:26:55 <timelyx> _monkey: built-in locale data
Aug 10 06:26:56 <_Monkey> built-in locale data is taking up 6MB of sparr's base image.  locale data for installed software is eating another 11MB
Aug 10 06:27:33 <pupnik> is there a correct way to remove locales?
Aug 10 06:27:48 <pupnik> in debian i use dpkg-reconfigure console-data iirc
Aug 10 06:28:03 <pupnik> on 770 i just rm'd em
Aug 10 06:29:29 <timelyx> _Monkey: gomiam
Aug 10 06:29:29 <_Monkey> gomiam is right... "/join #maemo"  does work :)
Aug 10 06:31:04 <timelyx> _Monkey artemisprime
Aug 10 06:31:05 <_Monkey> it has been said that artemisprime is logged off
Aug 10 06:31:55 <timelyx> _Monkey: 1mb
Aug 10 06:31:56 <_Monkey> 1mb is plenty
Aug 10 06:32:10 <kulve> timelyx?
Aug 10 06:32:10 <_Monkey> it has been said that timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback
Aug 10 06:32:44 <pupnik> has einstein or einstein2 been spamming you on ITT forums?
Aug 10 06:39:35 <timelyx> _Monkey: 770
Aug 10 06:39:35 <_Monkey> 770 is, like, far superior for non-gaming...  but the gp2x is hands down the best gaming handheld i ever owned
Aug 10 06:42:09 <timelyx> _Monkey Rocketman's n800
Aug 10 06:42:10 <_Monkey> well, Rocketman's n800 is too busy streaming videos to chat with atm, so Rocketman is on Rocketman's desktop
Aug 10 06:43:34 <timelyx> pupnik: redpill mode? :)
Aug 10 06:45:14 <timelyx> kulve: _Monkey is in passive mode, which means it learns lots of stupid stuff
Aug 10 06:45:35 <timelyx> i'm suggesting people consider replacing a number of the more useful keys with something useful
Aug 10 06:45:40 <kulve> pupnik: yes
Aug 10 06:45:57 <kulve> very annoying (even though I got only one mail)
Aug 10 06:48:39 <pupnik> ok i got two messages... then it is a spammer, not just some retard
Aug 10 06:49:03 <pupnik> imaredr writes on ITT forums "Just got a N770 for myself after seeing hubby so happy. "  hehehe
Aug 10 07:23:56 <keesj> Hi mmpplzz
Aug 10 07:26:48 <pupnik> nice comments Milhouse :)
Aug 10 07:26:54 <pupnik> hi keesj :)
Aug 10 07:27:32 <pupnik> keesj, when using synergy on it2006 i can sometimes not type into dialog boxes or xterm - i don't remember this happening with earlier experiments or with it2007
Aug 10 07:27:42 <pupnik> when i open a new opera or xterm tab, i can type into it
Aug 10 07:27:45 <pupnik> very strange :/
Aug 10 07:29:05 <keesj> pupnik: on it2006 with xterm I had to restart the xterm after I changed the input method
Aug 10 07:29:14 <keesj> perhaps this is the same kind of problem
Aug 10 07:29:16 <pupnik> that might be it
Aug 10 07:48:29 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 10 07:52:41 <keesj> Hi Jaffa
Aug 10 07:55:48 <pupnik> these psx RPGs are good :)
Aug 10 07:57:48 <Jaffa> pupnik: you got a PSX emulator running?
Aug 10 07:58:08 <pupnik> on pc yes :P
Aug 10 07:58:11 <Jaffa> bah
Aug 10 08:05:22 <pupnik> it will be fun to compare the unoptimized snes9x and pcsx to the optimised versions
Aug 10 08:05:28 <oil> heeelpp please
Aug 10 08:06:02 <oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?
Aug 10 08:07:23 <pupnik> you mean multiple repositories for one distro
Aug 10 08:07:25 <pupnik> ?
Aug 10 08:07:29 <oil> yes
Aug 10 08:07:54 <oil> I need sw from 2 different sources and both are not on default lists
Aug 10 08:08:24 <pupnik> can you add multiple repo_deb = lines?
Aug 10 08:08:56 <oil> I'll try that, but then it will not go to under the original repository
Aug 10 08:10:19 <oil> and, no not work
Aug 10 08:10:40 <oil> hmm. maybe for temporary solution I just copy the original to my repo
Aug 10 08:10:56 <pupnik> yes, or make two install links :/
Aug 10 08:11:07 <pupnik> one for dependencies, one for your package
Aug 10 08:11:23 <oil> but for me it seems to install only the last one
Aug 10 08:11:29 <oil> if I have [install]
Aug 10 08:11:32 <oil> pla pla
Aug 10 08:11:38 <oil> and [install]
Aug 10 08:11:39 <oil> foobar
Aug 10 08:22:06 <Jaffa> I don't think you can with the current application manager - I belive it's planned, tho
Aug 10 08:23:32 <timeless> oil: canola adds multiple repositories
Aug 10 08:23:36 <keesj> Jaffa: I registered a project on tuxfamily for a mud repository
Aug 10 08:24:11 <oil> thanks. I'll check how they did it
Aug 10 08:24:22 <keesj> I want to create a "read" deb repository with good stats etc
Aug 10 08:24:35 <oil> [install]
Aug 10 08:24:35 <oil> repo_name = Canola
Aug 10 08:24:35 <oil> repo_deb = deb http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/repository-beta2/770 mistral user
Aug 10 08:24:35 <oil> repo_deb_3 = deb http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/repository-beta2/bora bora user
Aug 10 08:24:35 <oil> package  = canola
Aug 10 08:24:50 <oil> hm.. there is only 1 repository on canola
Aug 10 08:25:11 <oil> for bora that is
Aug 10 08:25:13 <timeless> ?
Aug 10 08:25:50 <timeless> do you mean something like: deb http://blah laag black sheep
Aug 10 08:26:08 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Aug 10 08:26:27 <oil> I mean 2 different sources. so that the both are on different servers
Aug 10 08:26:49 <timeless> what's wrong w/ my canola example?
Aug 10 08:26:57 <oil> basically I need to install wget with my little software and wget is not on bora's default sources
Aug 10 08:27:20 <oil> timeless: in canola there is one source for 770 and one for 800
Aug 10 08:27:33 <timeless> so?
Aug 10 08:27:33 <_Monkey> so is someone porting cheese to maemo....
Aug 10 08:27:45 * timeless doesn't think the application manager knows the difference
Aug 10 08:27:51 <timeless> you're reading too much into things
Aug 10 08:27:54 <timeless> _monkey forget so
Aug 10 08:27:54 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot so
Aug 10 08:28:02 <timeless> _monkey so is <reply>
Aug 10 08:28:02 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Aug 10 08:29:29 <pupnik> does that <reply> tag supress monkey's learning?
Aug 10 08:30:17 <florian> good morning
Aug 10 08:30:54 <pupnik> hi
Aug 10 08:31:07 <pupnik> so?
Aug 10 08:31:15 <pupnik> nice
Aug 10 08:32:55 <timeless> not technically
Aug 10 08:33:02 <timeless> it suppresses its response
Aug 10 08:33:08 <timeless> _monkey literal so
Aug 10 08:33:09 <_Monkey> timeless: so =is= <reply>
Aug 10 08:33:21 <timeless> you can't learn/teach when there's already something there
Aug 10 08:33:25 <timeless> _monkey so is \what
Aug 10 08:33:25 <_Monkey> ...but so is <reply>...
Aug 10 08:35:12 <saaib> howdy
Aug 10 08:35:13 <_Monkey> niihau, saaib
Aug 10 08:35:14 <pupnik> i like being able to tell monkey what i'm doing (or not doing etc) so ppl can ask
Aug 10 08:35:38 <timeless> _monkey i am also cleaning house
Aug 10 08:35:38 <_Monkey> okay, timeless.
Aug 10 08:35:42 <timeless> _monkey who am i?
Aug 10 08:35:42 <_Monkey> i think timeless is a browser developer working for nokia on the maemo browser (microb). also a mozilla contributor or cleaning house
Aug 10 08:36:03 <konttori> Hey, any ideas on why ukmp running mp3 gstreamer crashes if pidgin makes a sound in the system?
Aug 10 08:36:21 <konttori> Apparently they both try to access dsp or something, but is there way to avoid conflict?
Aug 10 08:36:31 <saaib> esd
Aug 10 08:36:37 <saaib> isn't using esd?
Aug 10 08:36:54 <konttori> gstream call.
Aug 10 08:37:47 <saaib> I'm having problem adding my WAP into the 770. I previously configured an open spot successfully.
Aug 10 08:37:50 <whaq> is microb the one using mozilla's engine?
Aug 10 08:38:01 <saaib> If I try to discover the AP doesn't show up
Aug 10 08:38:13 <saaib> and this is the same AP i use for this (IRC) connection
Aug 10 08:38:17 <timeless> _monkey microb?
Aug 10 08:38:17 <_Monkey> microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)
Aug 10 08:38:35 <whaq> gecko
Aug 10 08:38:35 <whaq> thanks
Aug 10 08:38:59 <timeless> monkey timeless =~ s/r or cleaning house/r/
Aug 10 08:39:08 <timeless> _monkey timeless =~ s/r or cleaning house/r/
Aug 10 08:39:09 <_Monkey> OK, timeless
Aug 10 08:42:51 <timeless> so um
Aug 10 08:43:33 <timeless> what is internettablettalk, and why/how do i use it to find people complaining about my software?
Aug 10 08:43:34 <timeless> The following errors occurred with your search:
Aug 10 08:43:35 <timeless>    1. The string you entered for the image verification did not match what was displayed.
Aug 10 08:45:54 <konttori> timeless: Are you serious? It's the web site that hosts most active user forums for n800 / 770 users
Aug 10 08:46:03 <konttori> www.internettablettalk.com
Aug 10 08:46:39 <timeless> konttori: half serious
Aug 10 08:46:44 <konttori> you can search for mentioning of your sotftware there and or create a new discussion around them.
Aug 10 08:46:51 <pupnik> are you saying the search is broken?
Aug 10 08:46:52 <timeless> given that i don't want to wade through millions of posts
Aug 10 08:46:57 <konttori> At least for me it has worked really well
Aug 10 08:46:59 <timeless> pupnik: well, yes
Aug 10 08:47:05 <konttori> well, there is a search
Aug 10 08:47:09 <timeless> first, why do i have to enter a captcha to search
Aug 10 08:47:32 <konttori> also, once you have a discussion, you can just subscribe to it and new posts in that discussion will be sent to you via emaill
Aug 10 08:47:34 <rwhitby> no bot searching allowed :-)
Aug 10 08:47:34 <timeless> second, why does a search for 'microb' lead me to a random rant where the page it returned doesn't have the word
Aug 10 08:47:47 <timeless> i'm sure it's burried 5 pages into the thread
Aug 10 08:47:54 <timeless> but i don't intend to read 5 pages just to find the word
Aug 10 08:48:02 <timeless> that defeats the point of a *Search* feature
Aug 10 08:48:25 <rwhitby> timeless: I say just ignore any user comments that aren't made on the official microb support page.
Aug 10 08:48:45 <syntux> any developer alive?
Aug 10 08:48:49 <timeless> rwhitby: ok, this is going to sound really stupid
Aug 10 08:48:53 <timeless> but which page is that:? :)
Aug 10 08:48:54 <konttori> Are you looking for the new gecko browser discussion?
Aug 10 08:49:17 <timeless> konttori: i'm looking for "anywhere" that people might have mentioned bugs in the new browser
Aug 10 08:49:31 <konttori> ok, well they have one discussion around that
Aug 10 08:50:07 <rwhitby> timeless: the one listed under "How can I download and give feedback?" on http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/
Aug 10 08:50:08 <timeless> url?
Aug 10 08:50:45 <timeless> rwhitby++
Aug 10 08:50:53 <rwhitby> :-)
Aug 10 08:50:58 * timeless wonders if _monkey does karma
Aug 10 08:51:15 <rwhitby> shouldn't be too many comments there ....
Aug 10 08:51:33 <timeless> rwhitby: the smile is because i wrote that article
Aug 10 08:51:41 <timeless> and that's precisely where i want bugs
Aug 10 08:51:44 <pupnik> searching for microb gives several interesting error reports on ITT
Aug 10 08:51:45 <pupnik> ah
Aug 10 08:51:48 <timeless> any other place is something i don't read automatically
Aug 10 08:52:00 <konttori> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7805
Aug 10 08:52:06 <rwhitby> timeless: the fact you wrote it is exactly why I pointed out the irony of that paragraph :-)
Aug 10 08:52:26 <timeless> rwhitby: the problem is that there might be other pages that people might find
Aug 10 08:52:37 <timeless> e.g. for all i know there's a page on www.maemo.org or something
Aug 10 08:52:38 <konttori> 238 comments on that thread.
Aug 10 08:52:43 <timeless> or worse, http://garage.maemo.org/
Aug 10 08:53:09 * timeless hasn't managed to kill all the garage bits
Aug 10 08:53:13 * timeless goes off to kill a few more
Aug 10 08:53:29 <rwhitby> timeless: ah, so you actually are looking for comments, not looking for excuses not to read comments.  My mistake :-)
Aug 10 08:53:44 <lardman> morning all
Aug 10 08:53:47 <timeless> rwhitby: i'm looking for bugs
Aug 10 08:53:51 <timeless> i'd rather not read commments
Aug 10 08:53:57 <timeless> i don't care if people like my product
Aug 10 08:54:03 <timeless> i want to know what needs to be fixed
Aug 10 08:54:18 <rwhitby> if it's not in the bugtracker, then it's not a bug :-)
Aug 10 08:54:30 <konttori> I recommend using internettablettalk forums if you want to have dialogue with the users
Aug 10 08:55:02 * timeless doesn't want dialogue :)
Aug 10 08:55:06 <konttori> If you want just bug reports, good luck with that one, but not that many people are willing to take the time to report bugs in a formal way
Aug 10 08:55:23 <konttori> well, then just stick with the bug reports
Aug 10 08:58:04 <konttori> Looks like people are looking for changelogs: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7805&page=23
Aug 10 08:58:32 <timeless> my next blog is basically a changelog
Aug 10 08:58:34 <konttori> timeless: is there a changelog for the latest microb release?
Aug 10 08:58:43 <timeless> and it includes links to the actual changelog files
Aug 10 08:58:55 <rwhitby> timeless: has the keyboard-fixed-release happened yet>
Aug 10 08:58:56 <rwhitby> ?
Aug 10 08:59:07 <timeless> rwhitby: we just pushed it to a testing repo
Aug 10 08:59:12 * timeless goes to find out where that is
Aug 10 09:00:54 <konttori> GBTV 208 episode is raving about n800 + navicore
Aug 10 09:01:09 <timeless> hey, he can't find it :)
Aug 10 09:02:10 <konttori> I don't think that's surprising as he's not the developer, so he's probably not that interested in reading the discussion in such a detail (just a guess).
Aug 10 09:02:19 <timeless> err
Aug 10 09:02:21 <timeless> sorry
Aug 10 09:02:29 <timeless> he=the guy here who pushed the packages to some stage
Aug 10 09:02:42 <konttori> Ahh.... sorry. my bad
Aug 10 09:02:45 <timeless> personally, i don't think you guys will want the debian changelog files
Aug 10 09:02:50 <timeless> nah, that was my fault, i was ambiguous
Aug 10 09:03:03 <timeless> anyway, give me a few secs
Aug 10 09:03:20 <timeless> ok, we think we found the staging repo
Aug 10 09:03:28 <konttori> I don't think either. I think people want a list of things that have been fixed / improved / added.
Aug 10 09:03:36 * timeless nods
Aug 10 09:03:43 <konttori> A simple one page list (max) of things that have been changed
Aug 10 09:03:52 <timeless> ok, #microb, i'll pass out a couple of urls there shortly
Aug 10 09:04:21 <pupnik> is there a url i/we should give people for bug reports and discussion?
Aug 10 09:04:27 <pupnik> (for microb)
Aug 10 09:04:30 <timeless> yes
Aug 10 09:04:36 <pupnik> what is it?
Aug 10 09:04:43 <timeless> the one rwhitby pointed to had the right one
Aug 10 09:04:48 <pupnik> ok
Aug 10 09:05:01 <timeless> http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/1/
Aug 10 09:05:14 <timeless> "How can I send feedback"
Aug 10 09:05:26 <timeless> actually
Aug 10 09:05:27 <timeless> hold on
Aug 10 09:05:31 <timeless> that's not the link i was looking for
Aug 10 09:05:34 * timeless grumbles
Aug 10 09:05:52 <timeless> http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/2/
Aug 10 09:05:56 <timeless> How can I help
Aug 10 09:06:02 <timeless> at the bottom
Aug 10 09:06:07 <timeless> 1/2
Aug 10 09:06:59 <konttori> perhaps the default home screen could have a link to the report a bug screen
Aug 10 09:07:19 <konttori> the default home page I meant
Aug 10 09:07:24 <pupnik> ok i will share this url
Aug 10 09:08:09 <pupnik> wow ... great project timeless
Aug 10 09:08:28 <pupnik> the news/2 page is a good overview
Aug 10 09:10:11 <pupnik> from news/1 there is missing a download link
Aug 10 09:10:12 <pupnik> "How can I download and give feedback?
Aug 10 09:10:13 <pupnik> Feedback is very helpful for the ongoing development and testing work. The application is ready for end users: just install the browser engine in one-click and start using it! "
Aug 10 09:11:16 <timeless> heh
Aug 10 09:11:20 <timeless> yeah, i'll fix that :)
Aug 10 09:11:51 <timeless> well, hrm,
Aug 10 09:11:56 * timeless wonders "how" to fix that
Aug 10 09:12:05 <timeless> oh yeah
Aug 10 09:12:09 <lardman> Are the hooks to the Flash9 library in the engine or via the interface?
Aug 10 09:12:12 <timeless> ok, i'll make one-click a link
Aug 10 09:12:22 <timeless> it's almost standard npapi
Aug 10 09:12:39 <timeless> in theory firefox or opera for the device could use the same flash9 plugin
Aug 10 09:12:51 <lardman> oh right
Aug 10 09:13:14 <lardman> I was thinking of the people who were saying flash would be cool as an interface for their apps (rather than browsers)
Aug 10 09:14:44 <pupnik> unique311 made a collection of 20MB of flash games, with an index .html  - interesting to see what can be done with flash on the tablets
Aug 10 09:15:14 <timeless> ui designers here use flash for mockups and sometimes testing
Aug 10 09:15:50 <pupnik> makes sense, i've seen things done very fast/conveniently with flash
Aug 10 09:16:26 <lardman> Anyone happen to know whether the Bluetooth chip can be driven directly from the DSP?
Aug 10 09:16:53 <lardman> Sorry about my slight change of topic
Aug 10 09:18:54 * pupnik thinks microb might be reason enough to go to 2007he
Aug 10 09:18:57 <pupnik> no idea lardman
Aug 10 09:20:04 <lardman> hmm, I imagine it'll need a driver = avs_kernel recompile
Aug 10 09:20:44 <lardman> I had the impression that Nokia were working on being able to access bluetooth from the dsp directly, I wonder what I read to make me think that...?
Aug 10 09:20:45 <timeless> http://repository.maemo.org/microb/
Aug 10 09:20:47 <timeless> EEP
Aug 10 09:20:49 * timeless cries
Aug 10 09:20:56 <timeless> please don't add that permanently
Aug 10 09:23:05 <pupnik> lardman, have you been able to get anything running on the DSP?
Aug 10 09:23:23 <lardman> pupnik: Yep, the G.711 mu-law encoder appears to work ok
Aug 10 09:23:32 <timeless> pupnik, #microb?
Aug 10 09:24:00 <pupnik> timeless: i do not understand your question
Aug 10 09:24:18 * lardman is thinking of a gstreamer SBC sink
Aug 10 09:24:52 <pupnik> the ogg sink would be most useful to me, but i think i mentioned that already
Aug 10 09:25:14 <lardman> I have a load of code, I need to check and see if I can release it
Aug 10 09:25:23 <pupnik> yeah examples would be great
Aug 10 09:25:45 <lardman> Ah, this is ogg decoder code that I was sent...
Aug 10 09:25:55 <lardman> But still we currently have no way of accessing the audio codec
Aug 10 09:26:15 <pupnik> due to missing kernel headers?
Aug 10 09:26:31 <lardman> and I wonder whether the link between the ARM & DSP can handle the compressed stream in and raw data out
Aug 10 09:26:45 <lardman> avs_kernel headers, yes
Aug 10 09:26:55 <kulve> lardman: compressed stream?
Aug 10 09:26:56 <pupnik> should be no more difficult than mp3 decoding
Aug 10 09:27:07 <lardman> kulve: vorbis -> DSP
Aug 10 09:27:09 <kulve> lardman: isn't it just "data". The link doesn't care what you sen..
Aug 10 09:27:15 <kulve> t
Aug 10 09:27:43 <lardman> kulve: Yes, it's the volume of data and timings I was wondering about
Aug 10 09:28:28 <lardman> pupnik: For the input to the DSP yes, but without being able to access the audio codec from the DSP side, we must send the decompressed data back to the ARM side to output it
Aug 10 09:28:49 <pupnik> ok i understand
Aug 10 09:29:39 <pupnik> if nokia should be helping any 3rd party developer i nominate lardman
Aug 10 09:29:49 <lardman> ah-ha, http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html -> BT headset support
Aug 10 09:30:16 <lardman> that's why I thought they would implement SBC & dsp-side bluetooth access
Aug 10 09:31:40 <lardman> pupnik: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1592, I think they are thinking about how to help us, just without giving away too many secrets, etc.
Aug 10 09:31:50 <lardman> which is understandable
Aug 10 09:32:05 <pupnik> yes
Aug 10 09:32:52 <pupnik> someone like you who has learned how to get things running on DSP should be able to get access with a NDA
Aug 10 09:32:56 <timeless> note that the roadmap is about as noncommital as possible
Aug 10 09:33:25 <timeless> and usually developers for things like that won't want to be subject to an nda
Aug 10 09:33:28 <lardman> timeless: Yes, I wasn't counting on it, just that I also want to achieve that end, so perhaps it will help me
Aug 10 09:33:30 <timeless> it makes their coding life painful
Aug 10 09:34:09 <lardman> I don't know whether it could be written under an NDA unless I start the code from scratch anyway, and I do have a day job
Aug 10 09:34:52 <pupnik> so an open source implementation might disclose some nda info?
Aug 10 09:35:19 <lardman> it would show the functions and how to call them, so yes I reckon that would breech an NDA
Aug 10 09:35:32 <timeless> i can't figure out how to make an nda useful
Aug 10 09:35:40 <kulve> lardman: btw. I tried the instructions about the g711 with dspgateway 3.3.1. It did work, almost.
Aug 10 09:35:53 <lardman> to write an abstraction layer would be possible
Aug 10 09:36:16 <lardman> but really you wouldn't gain much by abstracting, as the functions would probably need to be very similar
Aug 10 09:36:41 <lardman> kulve: Where did it break?
Aug 10 09:37:41 <kulve> I would guess, that if there would be ogg/speex dsp codec that would pass the decoded raw audio back to ARM side, then there would be more solid demand for the DSP/EAP_* stuff..
Aug 10 09:38:06 <kulve> lardman: the dsp output had extra data appended to the output compared to the arm side output
Aug 10 09:38:15 <kulve> until that point they were identical
Aug 10 09:38:23 <lardman> kulve: True, I need to do some testing to work out what limits we have on data rate and quantity
Aug 10 09:38:53 <lardman> kulve: That may be true for me too, I didn't look very far into the data stream (only had a hexeditor)
Aug 10 09:39:53 <lardman> kulve: There's a slight issue in the way I implemented the code, as the char is 16bit on the DSP side, I passed back a char array to the ARM and OR'd together every two 16bit chars on the DSP side
Aug 10 09:40:22 <lardman> kulve: and I forgot to handle any trailing single char (i.e. off number of words input)
Aug 10 09:40:29 <lardman> s/off/odd
Aug 10 09:40:53 <kulve> yeah, well, the point is that it ~works :) I don't really care if the g711 works perfectly.. :)
Aug 10 09:41:15 <lardman> yes, that was my goal, get something working tolerably to show a 'useful' example
Aug 10 09:41:25 <kulve> it would definitely be slower in dsp in any case..
Aug 10 09:42:02 <kulve> ..because of the transfer delays
Aug 10 09:42:10 <lardman> I've not measured what they are
Aug 10 09:42:30 <lardman> btu if you map memory to pass the data, it may be faster (though perhaps not this algorithm)
Aug 10 09:42:39 <lardman> that's something I ought to do
Aug 10 09:43:02 <lardman> Note that Nokia provide a linear2ulaw function in the avs_kernel, so presumably they thought it was worth it
Aug 10 09:43:13 <kulve> we tested something years ago with omap1510 dev board and it was some milliseconds. Which is pretty much. It's possible that we did something wrong, because I didn't find any reason why it should be so slow
Aug 10 09:43:16 <lardman> unless it's just to remove load from the ARM-side
Aug 10 09:43:34 <lardman> kulve: Ah, okay
Aug 10 09:44:17 <lardman> I guess that if we could do output too, then we might claw back some time and reduce ARM-side load more, to make it worthwhile
Aug 10 09:44:54 * lardman is thinking of JPEG decoding/encoding as an interesting DSP project
Aug 10 09:45:10 <lardman> Try to use the IMGLIB functions
Aug 10 10:02:24 <lardman> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Tremor, all ready to go, almost
Aug 10 10:03:22 <kulve> nice :)
Aug 10 10:03:56 <lardman> sure is, >8bit char support, and specific Ti stuff to link into DSPLIB
Aug 10 10:04:31 * lardman is reading the vorbis spec now to get some idea of what it all does
Aug 10 11:31:01 <timeless> ok
Aug 10 11:31:07 <timeless> we've announced a newer version of the browser
Aug 10 11:39:45 <lardman> timeless: hmm, doesn't like google anymore
Aug 10 11:40:48 <lardman> oops, user error
Aug 10 11:41:12 * lardman goes to look at the bugtracket
Aug 10 11:42:23 <Crofton|home> lardman, Koen said you know about the DSp on the OAMP?
Aug 10 11:42:35 <lardman> Crofton|home: I know a little, yes
Aug 10 11:42:50 <Crofton|home> one day I need to get it working in OE
Aug 10 11:43:11 <Crofton|home> get the bridge running and figure out how to get some code on it
Aug 10 11:43:15 <lardman> Crofton|home: I think that should be reasonably easy, if you're willing to use the Nokia avs_kernel
Aug 10 11:43:21 <Crofton|home> urg
Aug 10 11:43:23 <Crofton|home> :)
Aug 10 11:43:32 <Crofton|home> I was hoping the git kernel is OK
Aug 10 11:43:48 <lardman> ah sorry, the avs_kernel is what runs on the DSP
Aug 10 11:44:03 <Crofton|home> ok, well I know where to look
Aug 10 11:44:08 <lardman> Crofton|home: Would this be better in Angstrom?
Aug 10 11:44:10 <Crofton|home> do you do much dsp dev?
Aug 10 11:44:23 <Crofton|home> what be better?
Aug 10 11:44:30 <lardman> The conversation
Aug 10 11:44:36 <Crofton|home> I am running on the OMAP starter kit
Aug 10 11:44:41 <Crofton|home> probably :)
Aug 10 11:45:01 <lardman> I'm trying to get some useful-ish things running on the DSP, first one is a slightly broken G.711 ulaw encoder
Aug 10 11:45:15 <Crofton|home> for 770?
Aug 10 11:45:20 <lardman> n800
Aug 10 11:45:23 <Crofton|home> ok
Aug 10 11:45:34 <Crofton|home> what do you use for DSP tools?
Aug 10 11:45:46 <Crofton|home> what processor is N800?
Aug 10 11:45:49 <lardman> the 770 was a problem, it wasn't very happy when I was trying to add tasks, I need to try again and see if it was user-error
Aug 10 11:45:54 <kulve> n800 is omap2
Aug 10 11:46:00 <Crofton|home> 2430
Aug 10 11:46:02 <Crofton|home> ok
Aug 10 11:46:09 <kulve> but the dsp is the same as in 770 and omap1510
Aug 10 11:46:26 <lardman> For the dsp tools, look here: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/dspprogramming/
Aug 10 11:46:27 <Crofton|home> c55
Aug 10 11:46:31 <kulve> I think the cpu is 2420, not 2430?
Aug 10 11:46:33 <Crofton|home> thanks
Aug 10 11:46:36 <Crofton|home> ok
Aug 10 11:46:37 <lardman> 2420
Aug 10 11:47:10 <lardman> Crofton|home: I have a spare 770 lying about, I'm happy to help
Aug 10 11:47:59 <kulve> I think learning the dsp stuff can be easily made with the omap1510
Aug 10 11:48:08 <kulve> it has the same dsp and works with vanilla omap kernel
Aug 10 11:48:37 <lardman> Crofton|home: You want sound output on the 770 I imagine?
Aug 10 11:48:51 <lardman> I seem to remember that didn't work last time I tried a Familiar image
Aug 10 11:48:53 <Crofton|home> no
Aug 10 11:48:59 <Crofton|home> We do software radio
Aug 10 11:49:04 <kulve> the 1510 dev board is good, since it has eth & rs232 (at least the one had that I've played with)
Aug 10 11:49:10 <Crofton|home> data :)
Aug 10 11:49:10 <lardman> Oh, a real application, cool
Aug 10 11:49:13 <Crofton|home> yeah
Aug 10 11:49:43 <Crofton|home> right now I need to finish my thesis, but after that I need to work out things like this
Aug 10 11:49:43 <lardman> Crofton|home: I've never build the DSP kernel, it'll be an interesting learning experience ;)
Aug 10 11:50:11 <lardman> Crofton|home: Is there a useful Ansgtrom image for the 770?
Aug 10 11:50:17 <Crofton|home> thanks for the info
Aug 10 11:50:22 <Crofton|home> lardman, I am not sure
Aug 10 11:50:36 <Crofton|home> there are builds, but I do not know if they are tested
Aug 10 11:50:43 <Crofton|home> I should buy a spare
Aug 10 11:50:49 <lardman> Do you have to use Ansgtrom, could you use the Nokia image and create a task to do what you want?
Aug 10 11:50:56 <lardman> a dsp-task that is
Aug 10 11:51:04 <Crofton|home> well, I am working on the OSK
Aug 10 11:51:11 <Crofton|home> OMAP dev board
Aug 10 11:51:17 <Crofton|home> IO is hard on 770
Aug 10 11:51:34 <lardman> So presumably you have some experience of building the kernel, setting the memory mappings, etc.?
Aug 10 11:51:38 <Crofton|home> yeah
Aug 10 11:51:45 <lardman> that's good to know
Aug 10 11:51:52 <lardman> why do you say IO is hard?
Aug 10 11:51:53 <Crofton|home> Thanks for the link
Aug 10 11:52:08 <Crofton|home> well, I need access to fairly high speed A/D convertors
Aug 10 11:53:00 <lardman> So you're not actually bothered about the 770 per se, just my experience of using a DSP?
Aug 10 11:53:07 <Crofton|home> exactly :)
Aug 10 11:53:15 <lardman> All becomes clear :)
Aug 10 11:53:29 <Crofton|home> although I have a 770, and would like to yhack around with it one day :)
Aug 10 11:53:41 <lardman> Well, I'm happy to answer any questions I can, and to learn from what you're doing
Aug 10 11:53:52 <Crofton|home> thanks
Aug 10 11:53:53 <lardman> and I should probably take a look at Ansgtrom too
Aug 10 11:53:55 <lardman> np
Aug 10 11:53:59 <Crofton|home> Im sure I'll be in touch
Aug 10 11:54:13 <lardman> cool
Aug 10 11:55:41 <lardman> timeless: Hmm, I still find the browser doesn't like 'right-clicks", I can never get google to open something in another window. I need to see if I can work out why, then post a bug
Aug 10 11:57:30 <lardman> Time to install a new graphics card, see you later (hopefully) all
Aug 10 12:00:21 <timeless> hrm
Aug 10 12:00:25 <timeless> first i've heard of that
Aug 10 12:00:38 <timeless> i need to file my rss bugs now that the rss feeds are public :)
Aug 10 12:23:41 <Jaffa> timeless: excellent changelog
Aug 10 12:25:00 <`0660> where is it?
Aug 10 12:25:06 <Jaffa> http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/
Aug 10 12:25:31 <`0660> thanks
Aug 10 12:27:28 * mgedmin tried to install microb once, but got an error from the package manager and gave up
Aug 10 12:27:44 <William001> Hi, I can't find libwrap0 - portmap and nfs-utils depends on libwrap0 :)
Aug 10 12:27:50 <William001> Where can i download it ;)
Aug 10 12:27:51 <William001> ?
Aug 10 12:29:19 <Jaffa> William001: try apt-get install libwrap0 as root in xterm?
Aug 10 12:29:36 <William001> Package libwrap0 is not available, but is referred to by another package.
Aug 10 12:29:36 <William001> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
Aug 10 12:29:36 <William001> is only available from another source
Aug 10 12:29:36 <William001> E: Package libwrap0 has no installation candidate
Aug 10 12:32:24 <whaq> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/09/4real_superman/
Aug 10 12:40:14 <disq> morning
Aug 10 12:40:15 <_Monkey> aloha
Aug 10 12:41:44 <matmo> help! Week old 770 with IT2007 Hackers on it for several days then yesterday things started to crawl, CPU at 100%, battery life shot to hell. Tried ssh'ing into it to see what is the problem but obviously it is unresponsive.
Aug 10 12:45:34 <Jaffa> matmo: remove all your RS-MMC cards; could be metalayer-craweler
Aug 10 12:46:32 <matmo> Jaffa: reboot now. What is metalayer-craweler?
Aug 10 12:47:15 <Jaffa> matmo: it indexes all your media files so that the Media Player can break things down by artist/album/genre etc. rather than relying on you organising your files sensibly
Aug 10 12:48:52 <matmo> Back up and yes metlayer-crawl is at 92.4%. I have a 2G card but mainly for apps. How can I exclude it from any search, if fact how can I stop searching altogether? Thanks for your help.
Aug 10 12:49:12 <Jaffa> matmo: search ITT, there's lots of stuff about it there
Aug 10 12:49:17 <Jaffa> _Monkey: ITT?
Aug 10 12:49:18 <_Monkey> ITT is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums
Aug 10 12:49:29 <matmo> safe to kill the task for now?
Aug 10 12:49:35 <Jaffa> I believe so ;)
Aug 10 12:51:23 <William001> Jaffa: I found libwrap0, but how do i start portmap and nfs-common services?
Aug 10 12:51:23 <William001> :)
Aug 10 12:52:14 <Jaffa> Same as on any other Debian-style box?
Aug 10 12:56:57 <William001> /etc/init.d/portmap start?
Aug 10 13:02:35 <William001> /etc/init.d/portmap start and /etc/init.d/nfs-common works, but i still get: mount: Mounting 192.168.1.12:/home/pub on /media/nfs failed: No such device
Aug 10 13:03:53 <pupnik> William001: last i read, a nfs-enabled kernel is necessary.
Aug 10 13:04:18 <pupnik> For the 770 at least, and i might be out of date
Aug 10 13:04:36 <William001> How do i install the kernel? :)
Aug 10 13:05:26 <pupnik> there are two ways, using the flasher over USB, or the on-device kernel installer (i think by fanoush?) -- i don't have links on-hand
Aug 10 13:05:38 <pupnik> search nfs kernel on ITT forums, or on maemo wiki
Aug 10 13:05:45 <pupnik> nfs?
Aug 10 13:05:45 <_Monkey> well, nfs is so much better
Aug 10 13:05:48 <pupnik> heheh
Aug 10 13:06:50 <pupnik> hi k-s[WORK]
Aug 10 13:07:08 <pupnik> William001: i'm not up-to-date on the nfs mounting right now, sorry
Aug 10 13:09:05 <k-s[WORK]> pupnik: hi
Aug 10 13:16:59 <matmo> ok, killed and renamed. Can anyone point me to somewhere to identify running processes? I have about 50 of the buggers.
Aug 10 13:18:26 <pupnik> ps command - ps aux or something
Aug 10 13:20:06 <matmo> sry, I mean like "what is it", eg, sapwood-server, eapd(x3), avahi-daemon, btcond, obexsrv, dsme, etc, etc.
Aug 10 13:20:18 <melmoth> how cna i checj if my scratchbox is maemo 3.1 or maemo 3.2 ??
Aug 10 13:22:30 <melmoth> can something with scracthbox maemo3.2 can please tell if 'apt-get install libgtk2.0-0-dbg' works ?
Aug 10 13:22:59 <melmoth> ohh, works here :)
Aug 10 13:23:00 <melmoth> thanks.
Aug 10 13:25:42 <pupnik> heh
Aug 10 13:26:07 <pupnik> matmo: on unix systems i use 'man' to find out what the process/program does - for processes running on tablet i use google
Aug 10 13:27:53 <matmo> pupnik: yeah I already do that. I was hoping someone may have brought together a page detailing the more common ones.
Aug 10 13:29:05 <matmo> another q: I have extended vmem to mmc. Will it screw things up if I remove the card while running?
Aug 10 13:32:07 <Jaffa> matmo: yes, but the system will probably warn you when you open the hatch (and then die horribly if you pull it out)
Aug 10 13:32:45 <matmo> Jaffa: ok, i guess i will avoid it then, lol
Aug 10 13:33:20 <matmo> just spotted the open-box-rox thread, anyone using it here?
Aug 10 13:36:00 <matmo> argh, never mind, it's just yet another distraction for me
Aug 10 13:36:57 <matmo> I'm hoping to use Squeak in a practical way on the 770
Aug 10 13:38:15 <whaq> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-DqZ8jAmv0
Aug 10 13:39:50 <matmo> whaq: seen it, impressive
Aug 10 13:39:51 <_Monkey> I haven't seen 'it,', matmo
Aug 10 13:40:16 <whaq> yeah
Aug 10 13:40:17 <matmo> _Monkey: sry, what?
Aug 10 13:40:17 <_Monkey> matmo: no idea
Aug 10 13:40:43 <whaq> very impressed.. from its concept to the smooth implementation..
Aug 10 13:40:47 <whaq> _Monkey is a bot
Aug 10 13:41:08 <matmo> _Monkey: no idea about what?
Aug 10 13:41:08 <_Monkey> matmo: wish i knew
Aug 10 13:41:12 <whaq> seen matmo
Aug 10 13:41:12 <_Monkey> matmo was last seen on #maemo 4 seconds ago, saying: _Monkey: no idea about what? [Fri Aug 10 14:40:41 2007]
Aug 10 13:41:15 <matmo> arh, ok
Aug 10 13:41:56 <whaq> usually u need to address him first before he responds, but there are some keywords he'd just perk up to without being called at (such as 'seen')
Aug 10 13:42:18 <matmo> bot?
Aug 10 13:43:44 <rwhitby> matmo: a bot is an automated program that people put on IRC to annoy other people
Aug 10 13:43:55 <rwhitby> (in _Monkey's case at least)
Aug 10 13:44:02 <rwhitby> some other bots are actually useful.
Aug 10 13:45:00 <matmo> rwhitby: thanks, I was actually questioning if it is a bot. Otherwise I'm stupid enough to continue the "conversation", lol
Aug 10 13:45:32 <matmo> (and I missed whaq's comment)
Aug 10 13:46:36 <matmo> typical charging time for the 770 battery?
Aug 10 13:47:07 <lardman> ~3 hours?
Aug 10 13:47:17 <lardman> not long anyway
Aug 10 13:47:36 <William001> nfs?
Aug 10 13:47:36 <_Monkey> nfs is so much better
Aug 10 13:48:03 <Nermal> bah
Aug 10 13:48:07 <onion> I just released an update to the audio player modplug addon, if anyone is interested
Aug 10 13:48:10 <Nermal> my n770 still hasn't shipped >:|
Aug 10 13:48:14 <Nermal> ordered on saturday ffs
Aug 10 13:48:44 <matmo> lardman: thanks. Thought it was around an hour so I've been stopping at 2
Aug 10 13:49:30 <lardman> matmo: It should stop on its own
Aug 10 13:50:00 <matmo> I had seen reports of charging probs so I was playing safe
Aug 10 13:50:03 <Jaffa> _Monkey: it is <reply>
Aug 10 13:50:03 <_Monkey> i already had it that way, Jaffa.
Aug 10 13:50:22 <onion> Nermal: from where did you order it ?
Aug 10 13:50:31 <lardman> matmo: News to me, anyway the battery is reasonably cheap
Aug 10 13:50:45 <Nermal> www.mobilefun.co.uk :|
Aug 10 13:50:57 <Nermal> they're expecting stock today but said that on wednesday
Aug 10 13:51:03 <matmo> good to hear
Aug 10 13:51:11 <Nermal> it's gone up to 89 quid now, I got it for 75 inc VAT
Aug 10 13:51:16 <Nermal> :d
Aug 10 13:51:36 <onion> I ordered a second 770 for my gf from expansys
Aug 10 13:51:48 <Nermal> aye - they'd sold out by the time I heard of the price reduction
Aug 10 13:52:04 <Nermal> still got the nav kit for 80 quid though
Aug 10 13:52:05 <matmo> Nermal: yep, i think they are selling out fast. I got two, intending to sell one... but no way now :-)
Aug 10 13:52:33 <Nermal> hoping they can get the stock thats all
Aug 10 13:52:36 <lardman> Nermal: really? where from?
Aug 10 13:52:39 <onion> funny, they had plenty of stock when I placed my order.. suddenly they where waiting for stock I had to wait a couple of weeks
Aug 10 13:52:39 <Nermal> don't really want to use ebay
Aug 10 13:52:55 <Nermal> lardman: I ordered it from www.mobilefun.co.uk - they're 89 quid now
Aug 10 13:53:07 <lardman> Nermal: I meant the navkit
Aug 10 13:53:14 <Nermal> ah
Aug 10 13:53:22 <Nermal> http://www.expansys.com/d.aspx?i=151567
Aug 10 13:53:26 <Nermal> 500+ in stock
Aug 10 13:53:28 <Nermal> :D
Aug 10 13:53:35 <matmo> onion: they *all* do this
Aug 10 13:53:54 <Nermal> 2007 edition too
Aug 10 13:53:58 <Nermal> matmo: aye - gits
Aug 10 13:54:02 <lardman> cool, thanks
Aug 10 13:54:26 <Nermal> strange now that nav kit is more than the device ;)
Aug 10 13:55:26 <matmo> isn't £80 expensive? Couldn't a cheap-ish BT thing work with maemo maps? Me new to 770 so what do i know
Aug 10 13:55:52 <Nermal> you can get a BT gps module for about 30 quid so you're paying about 50 quid for the navman 2007 software
Aug 10 13:56:08 <lardman> yes, ~£30 for a GPS, but maemo maps is bitmap based, so I'm not sure how implementing routing would be able to work
Aug 10 13:56:18 <Nermal> maemo maps you'd have to download the maps yourself and I think some hacking needed  for turn by turn - plus you don't get a 3d view
Aug 10 13:56:36 <Nermal> so not a bad deal given the res of the 770 screen and the size of it
Aug 10 13:56:47 <lardman> if you have a cheapish gprs contract then recalcing the route from the web would work
Aug 10 13:56:54 <Nermal> talking 250 or so quid for a tomtom with the same size screen (but lower res)
Aug 10 13:57:18 <Nermal> lardman: aye - I could add web and walk to my t-mobile contract for 12 quid a month to get 3gig a month over 3g
Aug 10 13:57:49 <lardman> Nermal: In that case perhaps maemo mapper is a better plan, and more fun to add the features you want, etc.
Aug 10 13:58:17 <matmo> anyone using samba server on 770? I have it installed but cannot find SWAT
Aug 10 13:58:42 <Nermal> lardman: true - just depends if you want an out of the box nice gps system or whether you want to be stuck in traffic or in a field wishing you'd coded traffic reports in ;)
Aug 10 13:58:59 <lardman> yes, but does Navicore do that?
Aug 10 13:59:09 <Nermal> navicore does traffic reports yah
Aug 10 13:59:16 <lardman> Really? How?
Aug 10 13:59:37 <Nermal> I think it uses either the RDS signal that radios use
Aug 10 13:59:43 <Nermal> or your phones net connection
Aug 10 14:00:11 <dev> so far mine does only the second
Aug 10 14:00:12 <Nermal> there was an article a while ago about how its not authenticated so you create a device that will let all gps devices in range know there is a bull fight ahead or something
Aug 10 14:00:16 <lardman> Must be phone net connection, I was hoping the N800 radio could grab RDS, but it's not the right chip
Aug 10 14:00:29 <Nermal> ah
Aug 10 14:00:52 * Nermal gets bored of refreshing the order page for his 770
Aug 10 14:01:13 <keesj> :p
Aug 10 14:01:14 <Nermal> what I need is some kind of handy mobile web device so I can check the order status of my 770 wherever I am!
Aug 10 14:01:24 <lardman> lol
Aug 10 14:01:25 <Jaffa> Get an N800 ;-)
Aug 10 14:01:26 <konttori> lol
Aug 10 14:03:22 <matmo> me just happy I never got a GP2X a few months ago :-)
Aug 10 14:05:21 <pupnik> lots of easy projects to work on matmo
Aug 10 14:05:41 <pupnik> penguin command just needs a few more hours work to finish adapting to 800x480
Aug 10 14:06:31 <pupnik> ufo2000 is more complicated, but also can work if it is optimized
Aug 10 14:06:49 <pupnik> daimonin just needs a page flipper to move to top/bottom of 800x600 screen, or a whole new UI
Aug 10 14:07:04 <matmo> games?
Aug 10 14:07:21 <pupnik> snes9x needs to be patched to use esd or some other nokia-compatible sound server
Aug 10 14:07:22 <pupnik> yeah
Aug 10 14:07:44 <matmo> my usual linux stuff is battling usb devices for days then hating linux for a few more days, lol
Aug 10 14:07:46 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/software.html for works-in-progress and links.html for links to games to port
Aug 10 14:08:03 <konttori> is the snes emu in a better shape these days?
Aug 10 14:08:06 <pupnik> yeah well it's easier than i thought and very fun to hack on games
Aug 10 14:08:07 <matmo> (checking link now)
Aug 10 14:08:50 <pupnik> no improvements on snes9x.  couldn't get aoss wrapper working.   no work on drpocketsnes lately
Aug 10 14:08:51 <konttori> hmm... is the 1.51 the latest?
Aug 10 14:09:15 <pupnik> yes, but 1.4 is slightly faster - just by a tiny bit
Aug 10 14:09:24 <matmo> pupnik: impressive, you working on all these?
Aug 10 14:09:33 <konttori> and the drpocketsnes is not working yet
Aug 10 14:09:49 <pupnik> also another thing is disabling snes9x scaling - i haven't found where to disable the scaling
Aug 10 14:10:12 <pupnik> yeah snes9x would be halfways workable on n800 with sound and scaling hacks
Aug 10 14:10:20 <pupnik> for 770 we really need drpocketsnes or squidgesnes
Aug 10 14:10:43 <konttori> I hope you'll get the hacks in place
Aug 10 14:10:55 <konttori> and next nokia device has semi-decent dpad
Aug 10 14:11:39 <pupnik> yeah that's all we really need.  onscreen buttons can suffice for the right hand side
Aug 10 14:12:02 <matmo> just looking at your acmonitor page, is the 770 usable while charging, I read some where that it would actually be discharging?
Aug 10 14:12:04 <pupnik> been playtesting for a while and the OS buttons are really not that bad
Aug 10 14:12:42 <pupnik> someone on itt forums thought that acmonitor reduced battery life - nobody has reported real tests yet
Aug 10 14:14:18 <matmo> he he, penguin command looks good. Not much of a gamer but I'll give it a go when you release.
Aug 10 14:14:20 <timeless> well, have a good weekend all. feel free to file good bugs :)
Aug 10 14:14:35 <matmo> timeless: u2
Aug 10 14:14:36 <pupnik> cheers timeless - thanks for the work
Aug 10 14:14:48 <pupnik> hmm, i have no idea what day it is :)
Aug 10 14:15:20 <matmo> CCC: Common Coder Condition
Aug 10 14:15:51 <matmo> as u get older remembering the year is a problem
Aug 10 14:16:51 <timeless> simple: if i'm leaving before 6pm, it must be friday
Aug 10 14:17:23 <timeless> (or if i leave at all)
Aug 10 14:18:39 <onion> Oh, my other little project, might be interesting for osm/maemo-mapper users: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Onion/Mapper
Aug 10 14:18:48 * Nermal peels onion 
Aug 10 14:19:18 <lardman> I see the words fork, onion makes me cry
Aug 10 14:19:26 <lardman> why a fork?
Aug 10 14:19:54 <Nermal> whats OSM ?
Aug 10 14:20:06 <Nermal> on screen mapping ?
Aug 10 14:20:13 <lardman> though I do like the looks of the feature list
Aug 10 14:20:14 <onion> lardman: I didn't like working with the big one-file-only c source
Aug 10 14:20:19 <onion> Nermal: openstreetmap
Aug 10 14:21:07 <Nermal> oh I see
Aug 10 14:21:47 <cosmo> onion: looks really good, thanks!
Aug 10 14:21:49 <onion> and now for a 400km test drive...
Aug 10 14:22:09 <lardman> is the data vector based?
Aug 10 14:22:16 <lardman> so it could be used for routing?
Aug 10 14:22:23 <onion> yes
Aug 10 14:22:38 <onion> that's the next feature I'll be working on
Aug 10 14:22:46 <lardman> cool, and generated from people's gps tracks? So it also contains speed/time data?
Aug 10 14:23:45 <onion> lardman: well, sort-of.. you trace gpx tracks to make nodes->segments->ways and tag these.. read the openstreetmap page for more information
Aug 10 14:24:11 <pupnik> here's an idea for an app - warn of too high speed when nearing a curve in automobile
Aug 10 14:24:24 <Nermal> has planner been ported ?
Aug 10 14:24:40 <lardman> okay. Sounds pretty cool, I was just wondering if it also had data about average speeds for certain times of day (which is the next step in routing so I've read)
Aug 10 14:24:50 <Nermal> pupnik: I have a small cube shaped cat for that - if he slides off the dashboard - I'm going too quick
Aug 10 14:25:26 <lardman> pupnik: might be difficult, need to plug in your vehicle type and driving style
Aug 10 14:25:38 <pupnik> :) yeah
Aug 10 14:25:53 <Nermal> lardman: "hurt me plenty"
Aug 10 14:26:10 <lardman> but if you have that BT CANbus (carman?) connection, it might know for itself....
Aug 10 14:26:50 <onion> that would be pretty cool
Aug 10 14:26:59 <lardman> possibly getting a bit ahead of ourselves mind you :)
Aug 10 14:27:01 <pupnik> it could learn average speeds for a route - including a distribution curve for danger segments and warn if you are in the top 10% speedwise
Aug 10 14:27:04 <pupnik> i know :)
Aug 10 14:27:06 <onion> just to expensive for me right now
Aug 10 14:27:37 <lardman> Knowing average vehicle speeds at different times of the day would be useful for routing
Aug 10 14:27:49 <Nermal> yah
Aug 10 14:28:29 <lardman> routing hmm, rout route, strange language is ours
Aug 10 14:29:29 * lardman never writes anymore, spell checker catches it, normally defaulting to US English. Grr
Aug 10 14:35:05 <Mikho> yes, english is weird
Aug 10 14:35:18 <lardman> onion: Anyway, going back to my original question, do you need to fork?
Aug 10 14:35:57 <onion> lardman: feel free to integrate any changes into maemo-mapper
Aug 10 14:36:03 <lardman> onion: Seems a shame to split development of two similar applications
Aug 10 14:36:51 <onion> lardman: well, maemo-mapper is simpler and many of the planned features are targeted for working with OSM
Aug 10 14:37:26 <onion> so if you don't need anything fancy then maemo-mapper is probably more right for you
Aug 10 14:38:30 <lardman> onion: I think looking at routing algorithms would be interesting, that's why I asked about the vector format
Aug 10 14:39:13 <onion> lardman: yes it's vector based
Aug 10 14:39:20 <lardman> onion: the similarities are things like POI (perhaps), location information (with abstraction), voice output, etc.
Aug 10 14:40:16 <onion> well, anyway gotta go.. need to drive a ~400km
Aug 10 14:40:25 <greygusb> yippie, usb hostmode finally works ... the usb hub was the cause, although its external powered it still draws power from the device. a usb dockingstation works :)
Aug 10 14:40:25 <lardman> okay, have a nice weekend
Aug 10 14:40:31 <onion> leave any comments on the talk page
Aug 10 14:41:21 <greygusb> now the only thing i cant figure out is what i have to do in order to now only get a usb mouse detected but also get it working in the graphical interface.
Aug 10 14:41:59 <pupnik> missing the cursor?
Aug 10 14:42:08 <greygusb> i got the mouse arrow already visible, does anyone know if and where it is possible to configure the graphical interface (X or whatever it is)
Aug 10 14:42:23 <pupnik> how do you mean
Aug 10 14:42:35 <pupnik> you mean like configuring a mouse in xorg.conf?
Aug 10 14:42:39 <greygusb> dmesg tells me it gets usb mouse, hid and so on
Aug 10 14:43:12 <greygusb> the cursor is already visible, but does not move, iassume i have to tell the x server (if it is one) to also use the mouse
Aug 10 14:43:39 <pupnik> makes sense - the server is i think called 'xomap' and based off 'kdrive'  - maybe those will help you for search terms
Aug 10 14:44:22 <greygusb> if now i can only assume the ps2 port in the usb docking station i have attached is interfering as its already appearing as usb hid for the n800
Aug 10 14:44:51 <greygusb> thanks, i think i once read the n800 x is based on x.org, but quite modified
Aug 10 14:45:36 <greygusb> mh, sources i can see, if the config is compiled in then tere still should be chance of getting it running, i just asked if maybe already found a way :)
Aug 10 14:45:37 <greygusb> thanks
Aug 10 14:47:16 <Mikho> what is this? Why doesn't the backspace key work on GtkEntry?
Aug 10 14:47:29 <pupnik> application 'synergy' can steer the mouse, maybe you can see how that does it
Aug 10 14:47:30 <Mikho> I can type in normally but not delete
Aug 10 14:48:41 <pupnik> i have seen this problem mentioned before - check ITT forums
Aug 10 14:48:55 <greygusb> yes, also an idea
Aug 10 14:57:49 <bipolar> I guess that the guys working on getting kde working on the n800 have given up on it? anyone know anything about it?
Aug 10 14:58:16 <Mikho> erm, do I really need to write a custom key handler for backspace and delete?
Aug 10 15:00:06 <pupnik> did you search itt forums with keyword 'backspace'?
Aug 10 15:01:48 <||cw2> bipolar: like, a full kde?  or QTE?
Aug 10 15:02:33 <pupnik> someone was doing kde - very large tho
Aug 10 15:03:29 <Mikho> I can only find xterm backspace issues there
Aug 10 15:03:48 <||cw2> I've installed kubuntu on a 1G CF card in a 200Mhz SoC system with 128M ram, it "worked", but I wouldn't want to use it on a regular basis
Aug 10 15:04:31 <`0660> i don't think ubuntu would be much better on a system like that :)
Aug 10 15:04:48 <||cw2> nope, xubuntu does OK though
Aug 10 15:06:31 <bipolar> ||cw2: full kde
Aug 10 15:06:50 <||cw2> loonies
Aug 10 15:07:03 <matmo> oskb - how to cursor up/dn?
Aug 10 15:07:05 <bipolar> ||cw2: maybe to you
Aug 10 15:07:47 <||cw2> bipolar: i've used kde on a systems with limited resources, it is NOT useful.
Aug 10 15:08:07 <||cw2> matmo: the D-pad
Aug 10 15:08:17 <bipolar> ||cw2: I don't care what you've done... I want to make up my own mind.. thanks
Aug 10 15:08:23 <erstazi> XFCE is nice on older computers
Aug 10 15:08:35 <erstazi> or computers with limited resources
Aug 10 15:08:50 <erstazi> personally, I am not too big about flashy DE
Aug 10 15:09:06 <matmo> D-pad?
Aug 10 15:09:06 <bipolar> ||cw2: and I'd apreciate you not calling people like me 'loonies'
Aug 10 15:09:36 * bipolar was already in not the best of moods
Aug 10 15:09:43 <||cw2> bipolar: ok then, get a P200 with 128M ram and install a KDE based distro on it.  you'll see,
Aug 10 15:09:57 <bipolar> ||cw2: god... I've done it... I don't care.
Aug 10 15:10:10 <bipolar> ||cw2: it's not comparable anyway
Aug 10 15:10:28 <||cw2> yes it is, except the p200 has faster ram
Aug 10 15:10:30 <matmo> D-pad?
Aug 10 15:10:36 <bipolar> I DONT CARE
Aug 10 15:10:44 <bipolar> jeez... can I make myself any more clear
Aug 10 15:11:00 <||cw2> i'm not saying you have to care
Aug 10 15:11:16 <matmo> gong nuts here: htf do I cursor up/dn?
Aug 10 15:11:37 <||cw2> matmo: what exactly is oskb
Aug 10 15:11:43 <pupnik> dpad arrows, or in vi j and k
Aug 10 15:11:47 <Fatal> on screen key board
Aug 10 15:11:51 <matmo> on-screen-keyboard
Aug 10 15:11:57 <||cw2> on the device you use the d-pad as arrow keys, generaly
Aug 10 15:12:36 <matmo> oh, right, haven't used that thing since day-zero
Aug 10 15:12:46 <matmo> thanks
Aug 10 15:13:15 <||cw2> i pretty much only use when I want arrow keys
Aug 10 15:13:20 <||cw2> use it^
Aug 10 15:15:31 <matmo> i am using vi, keys for insert/esc (srt for dumb questions)
Aug 10 15:15:41 <matmo> sry
Aug 10 15:16:01 <pupnik> i for insert, circle-arrow button for esc
Aug 10 15:16:33 <matmo> thks
Aug 10 15:16:45 <||cw2> bipolar: I don't mean to offend, I just call it as I see it.  i think putting KDE on a device that does not even come close to the specs that KDE was designed to run on is a futile effort, and I find pursuing futile efforts to be, well, loony.  Now, Qtopia on the n800, that would be an interesting project, and would run most KDE based apps as well
Aug 10 15:18:04 <||cw2> Qtopia/QPE
Aug 10 15:18:07 <bipolar> ||cw2: I understand... but that was not my question. I simply asked if the guys that had done some work on getting kde running on the n800 had stopped working on it.
Aug 10 15:18:39 <bipolar> ||cw2: I, too, wan't to see Qtopia or Opie ported to the n800
Aug 10 15:19:05 <||cw2> lets then hope that if they stopped working on kde, they started on QPE
Aug 10 15:19:29 <bipolar> but then I hear things like the wifi driver being closed, and the framebuffer driver being non-standard, and start to think that the n800 is simply not worth it.
Aug 10 15:20:23 <bipolar> In september I'll probbly end up getting an OpenMoko (as long as the wifi plans they have work out)
Aug 10 15:20:24 <pupnik> n800 does have better performance, newer browser, youtube live instead of first downloading -- but for me i always skip one generation of upgrade
Aug 10 15:21:30 <bipolar> unless these closed source driver issues can be worked out... then there would be no point to getting the openmoko... I already have a phone.
Aug 10 15:24:59 <Jaffa> bipolar: the entirety of the N800 kernel is open source, and is a binary blob for the wlan really that big a deal?
Aug 10 15:25:31 <bipolar> Jaffa: yes... I can't upgrade the kernel without breaking it, and I can't redistribute it.
Aug 10 15:25:49 <sparr> not open source != cant redistribute
Aug 10 15:25:52 <bipolar> It's not like it's just the firmware
Aug 10 15:26:03 <sparr> and you CAN build new kernels to use old modules, its just a serious pain in the ass
Aug 10 15:26:15 <Jaffa> Presumably the wifi driver has an open source module component, with a closed source blob.
Aug 10 15:26:26 <sparr> and what Jaffa said
Aug 10 15:26:35 <bipolar> sparr: if you can find a part of the license on the kernel module that allows redistrobution, I'd love to see it. Maybe I missed it.
Aug 10 15:28:04 <Darksmurf> erstazi many many hours ago you posted a link to a 'all.install' file that had all your deb repos...I tried to DL it but it gives me a 404. Any chance of me getting it from you?
Aug 10 15:28:43 <pupnik> i think 'oil' was asking how to include multiple repos in one .install file
Aug 10 15:29:24 <pupnik>  oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?
Aug 10 15:29:27 <pupnik>  oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?
Aug 10 15:29:34 <pupnik> <oil> how can I add 2 different repositories and some software on 1 foo.install file?
Aug 10 15:29:40 <pupnik> hmm sorry
Aug 10 15:29:51 <Jaffa> bipolar: presumably you've raised on maemo-dev and/or on Bugzilla exactly what the minimum you'd like is (e.g. a firmware blob and an open source kernel module)?
Aug 10 15:30:02 * timelyx still doesn't understand why the canola install file isn't a good example
Aug 10 15:32:40 <erstazi> Darksmurf, yes, but I am not sure how *.install files link in the sources.list... what I think happens is, it only installs the last one
Aug 10 15:33:03 <timelyx> erstazi: isn't application manager open?
Aug 10 15:33:15 <erstazi> Darksmurf, thanks for letting me know that I forgot to change my http.conf for mod_rewrite to allow forwarding to the new address which is http://c-wd.net/maemo/all.install
Aug 10 15:33:40 <erstazi> timeless, the install file calls the application manager
Aug 10 15:33:56 <erstazi> timelyx, do you got the time to open that all.install in a text editor and tell me if I did it right?
Aug 10 15:34:11 <timelyx> nope :(
Aug 10 15:34:17 <erstazi> timelyx, ok no biggie thanks though
Aug 10 15:34:25 <timelyx> i have <20mins to shave/shower/dress/light candles and run somewhere
Aug 10 15:34:38 <erstazi> light candles? romantic night eh?
Aug 10 15:34:49 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20070531/source/hildon-application-manager-1.9.12/
Aug 10 15:34:55 <timelyx> erstazi: no. i do it every friday
Aug 10 15:35:00 <erstazi> ah
Aug 10 15:35:04 <timelyx> anyway, application manager is open
Aug 10 15:35:08 <timelyx> you can read an old version there
Aug 10 15:35:12 <erstazi> thank you
Aug 10 15:35:15 <erstazi> appreciate it much
Aug 10 15:35:17 <timelyx> i'll probably try to grab a newer sardine some other week
Aug 10 15:35:46 <timelyx> i'll also try to remember to fix sardine so that it has svn links to /something/
Aug 10 15:36:54 <sparr> enigma on the 770...
Aug 10 15:37:01 <erstazi> Darksmurf, if that works, tell me
Aug 10 15:37:07 <erstazi> Darksmurf, its only for the 770
Aug 10 15:37:13 <erstazi> err... OS2006
Aug 10 15:37:43 <sparr> when i get a 770 build environment put together, im going to try to port enigma
Aug 10 15:38:21 <bipolar> Jaffa: it's already there and answered: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1584
Aug 10 15:39:46 <erstazi> sparr, I would port it for OS2006 but I got a project I want done first
Aug 10 15:39:51 <erstazi> a Speech to text solution
Aug 10 15:39:56 <Jaffa> More "picked up", than "answered". Although qgil is pretty clear it's not a priority
Aug 10 15:41:58 <sparr> erstazi: its a non-trivial port.  first, because it wants libraries we dont have.  second, and much more difficult, because it *requires* a mouse.  i had to rewrite a lot of the input code to make it work with a dpad for the gp2x, for the 770 I would probably want to make it work with stylus-as-joystick like lxdoom does
Aug 10 15:42:24 <erstazi> yeah
Aug 10 15:42:30 <erstazi> maybe borrow from lxdoom?
Aug 10 15:42:43 <erstazi> if they did it right, and lxdoom is gpl or similar license right?
Aug 10 15:43:41 <sparr> borrowing lxdoom's system could work...  id probably just write it myself though.
Aug 10 15:45:36 <erstazi> well, more power to you, just my philosophy is if it isn't broke, why fix (make) it?
Aug 10 15:47:52 <sparr> well, i dont really like how lxdoom has such a small input space
Aug 10 15:47:59 <sparr> i havent looked at the source, but that could probably be fixed
Aug 10 15:48:30 <sparr> also, i happen to be familiar with enigma's input code, and its very...  particular about how and when it wants its input events
Aug 10 15:48:52 <pupnik> i found the mouse control to be incomprehensible on first play
Aug 10 15:49:00 <sparr> for the gp2x i gave up on driving events at the right times, i ditched the event checker and made it poll the d-pad directly every time it wanted one
Aug 10 15:49:13 <sparr> pupnik: heh, youre not alone
Aug 10 15:49:28 <sparr> but for some levels you need/want near infinite speed, and thats virtually impossible with a joystick
Aug 10 15:49:40 <sparr> with a joystick, dpad, stylus-as-joystick, etc...  you have to define some maximum speed
Aug 10 15:49:47 <pupnik> you can increase sensitivity with the right arrow, yes?
Aug 10 15:54:15 <pupnik> well you can initiate motion with a stylus tap (mousedown) and track movement until mouseup afaict
Aug 10 15:55:05 <sparr> on the gp2x i made one of the shoulder buttons double the sensitivity, as a toggle
Aug 10 15:55:08 <sparr> that worked decently
Aug 10 15:55:10 <erstazi> pupnik, that is true, there are javascript games that do that
Aug 10 15:55:15 <erstazi> or flash games
Aug 10 15:55:21 <sparr> but still fails on levels where you need really fast changes in sensitivity, in really odd patterns
Aug 10 15:55:46 <sparr> tracking movement as the stylus moves is actually not a BAD idea...  but you run into interesting cases
Aug 10 15:55:48 <pupnik> obviously you don't have the same problems with the nokia as you do on gp2x
Aug 10 15:55:53 <sparr> what should the ball do if you move the stylus across a wall?
Aug 10 15:55:59 <erstazi> both js and flash games use the mousedown and move/do until mouseup
Aug 10 15:56:02 <pupnik> it's very cool to have another gp2x porter in the club :)
Aug 10 15:56:15 <sparr> i wish i still had my gp2x
Aug 10 15:56:19 <sparr> i miss it dearly
Aug 10 15:58:41 <pupnik> did you ever see the unoptimized snes9x or pcsx running on the gp2x?
Aug 10 15:59:10 <pupnik> i'm curious how they fared wrt framerate
Aug 10 16:00:55 <sparr> i did not
Aug 10 16:01:01 <sparr> i came in after they started getting optimized
Aug 10 16:01:18 <pupnik> ok
Aug 10 16:02:07 <sparr> what, precisely, does using the flasher utility do?
Aug 10 16:03:18 <sparr> if you use the various options without an image, what does it do?  can usb host mode be enabled without affecting other things?
Aug 10 16:05:24 <pupnik> don't know
Aug 10 16:07:13 <erstazi> Darksmurf, did that work for you?
Aug 10 16:38:49 <matmo> see ya all, thanks for the help
Aug 10 16:57:34 <sparr> is mozilla available for the 770 (without itos 2007) or just minimo?
Aug 10 16:58:28 <pupnik> i don't think stock mozilla will run in a few MB free RAM
Aug 10 17:00:06 <erstazi> minimo?
Aug 10 17:00:07 <_Monkey> somebody said minimo was (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/
Aug 10 17:00:23 <erstazi> I tried minimo, it wasn't too bad
Aug 10 17:00:25 <pupnik>               total         used         free       shared      buffers
Aug 10 17:00:25 <pupnik>   Mem:        62224        54340         7884            0         1000
Aug 10 17:00:41 <Juhaz> I'd assume he meant microb
Aug 10 17:01:42 <erstazi> Juhaz, no minimo
Aug 10 17:01:53 <erstazi> Juhaz, if you were referring to me
Aug 10 17:01:59 <pupnik> that's with no running programs :)  wonder how anything runs
Aug 10 17:02:26 <Juhaz> erstazi, I was referring to sparr
Aug 10 17:02:32 <erstazi> Juhaz, ah
Aug 10 17:02:50 <erstazi> I am sure microb could be ported for OS2006
Aug 10 17:03:11 <erstazi> scratchbox ftw, it makes me happy
Aug 10 17:03:26 <pupnik> timeless was just here - should have asked him
Aug 10 17:04:11 <erstazi> pupnik, he was leaving when I talked to him
Aug 10 17:04:53 <pupnik> links2 -g is kind of silly, but it hasn't crashed on me yet and it's very light
Aug 10 17:07:25 <erstazi> pupnik, I have used it a few times
Aug 10 17:07:27 <erstazi> heh
Aug 10 17:07:37 <erstazi> very light weight
Aug 10 17:07:38 <pupnik> with the load-applet-run menu shortcut you can launch it with xkbd for a virtual keyboard
Aug 10 17:08:44 <pupnik> with a proper package, hildon wrapper for fullscreen and task-switching it could be decent
Aug 10 17:10:00 <pupnik> i haven't been able to see any render quality improvement with subpixel hinting
Aug 10 17:10:17 <pupnik> s/hinting/aliasing
Aug 10 17:11:05 <pupnik> i do have a microscope here - maybe i could take pictures and see if it does make a difference :)
Aug 10 17:11:17 <erstazi> heh
Aug 10 17:23:15 <zaf> erstazi, hi, what was the url for openssh again?
Aug 10 17:24:06 <erstazi> openssh?
Aug 10 17:24:07 <_Monkey> openssh is a FREE version of the SSH connectivity tools that technical users of the Internet rely on. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/openssh/
Aug 10 17:24:14 <zaf> thanks :)
Aug 10 17:24:21 <erstazi> np (:
Aug 10 17:39:09 <saaib> morning all
Aug 10 17:43:56 * pupnik is so impressed with Squaresoft's graphic artists
Aug 10 17:46:05 <Darksmurf> erstazi the file downloaded...I don't yet have a device to actually try it on..I wanted to look at the repos. thanks
Aug 10 18:25:27 <sameo_> hi guys, anyone managed to have a 2.6.18 booting on the 770 ?
Aug 10 18:30:36 <erstazi> Darksmurf, here is the sources.list: http://c-wd.net/maemo/sources.list
Aug 10 18:31:23 <erstazi> saaib, with dual boot?
Aug 10 18:36:58 <tso> hrmf, i realy need to take a look at the wifi in this house. i get better response using the mobile then i get using the wifi...
Aug 10 18:39:27 <erstazi> tso, get access points and make sure your wifi is not being restricted
Aug 10 18:39:38 <erstazi> do you have cordless 2.4ghz wireless phones?
Aug 10 18:39:49 <erstazi> and you might need to change the channel on your router
Aug 10 18:41:44 <tso> there are some dect phones in the house yes. and i have been playing around with the channel setting but outside of the upper 3 (11,12,13 iirc)i dont see much difference...
Aug 10 18:41:58 <tso> and the upper 3 just refuse to work...
Aug 10 18:42:40 <erstazi> ah
Aug 10 18:42:49 <erstazi> I would say access points are well enough
Aug 10 18:42:56 <erstazi> or broadcasters
Aug 10 18:43:04 <erstazi> that just relay the signal
Aug 10 18:43:30 <erstazi> repeaters I mean, blah
Aug 10 18:44:16 <tso> :)
Aug 10 18:44:39 <tso> hell, it may even improve the quality on the laptop
Aug 10 18:52:30 <WeeJay> Hello! I am considering purchasing an N800 but from the Nokia website it does not look like it support EAP-TLS for wireless . It seems to only support WEP and WPA-PSK :-(
Aug 10 18:52:38 <WeeJay> Can someone please confirm this
Aug 10 18:58:43 <orakle> no eap-tls
Aug 10 18:59:49 <tso> hmm, what happend to that iphome 0.4 port to 770?
Aug 10 19:00:44 <William001> Does anyone know how to get NFS working on Nokia 770? I have search all the day, and i can't find anything useful :-(
Aug 10 19:02:13 <mgedmin_> you used to need a patched kernel, iirc
Aug 10 19:02:17 <mgedmin_> I never tried it
Aug 10 19:02:20 <mgedmin_> sshfs is enough for my needs
Aug 10 19:02:30 <tso> using ftp here
Aug 10 19:05:50 <Artemisprime> Hllo
Aug 10 19:06:18 <William001> mgedmin_: apt-get install sshfs? :P
Aug 10 19:06:18 <Artemisprime> Anyone  around
Aug 10 19:06:47 <sparr> pupnik: swap space is your friend
Aug 10 19:07:09 <Artemisprime> What are ome fav gamess for maemo
Aug 10 19:07:47 <sparr> ive seen platforms with a lot more free ram than we have on the 770...  i think osso/maemo/whatever has too much overhead
Aug 10 19:08:12 <sparr> Artemisprime: openttd, doom, freeciv, nethack, and the single player puzzle game collection
Aug 10 19:08:59 <Artemisprime> Thanx sparr
Aug 10 19:09:04 <William001> mgedmin_: Where can i download sshfs?
Aug 10 19:09:29 <zaf> are there any pure sip clients for the 770 other than gizmo?
Aug 10 19:09:50 <tso> openssh or dropbear server/client i guess. the install required root so therefor i went for maemoftp over on the wip section of the maemo.org wiki
Aug 10 19:11:21 <mgedmin_> William001: yes, apt-get install sshfs on your desktop
Aug 10 19:11:46 <mgedmin_> then mount your nokia's filesystem over ssh
Aug 10 19:11:51 <mgedmin_> this assumes you have an ssh server on your tablet
Aug 10 19:11:58 <mgedmin_> I haven't tried it in the other direction
Aug 10 19:13:13 <William001> OK - I'll give it a try - I do it in the other direction :P
Aug 10 19:13:21 <mgedmin_> ooh, brave man
Aug 10 19:13:33 <mgedmin_> have fun compiling fuse kernel modules :)
Aug 10 19:14:05 <William001> I need to compile it? :P
Aug 10 19:15:50 <pupnik> scummvm is what impresses people most who haven't seen games on tablet before in my experience here
Aug 10 19:17:32 <sparr> scummvm only wins because we don't have the controls for good NES or GB emulation
Aug 10 19:17:49 <sparr> if the damn thing had TWO buttons on the right side its use for gaming would increase ten fold
Aug 10 19:18:26 <sparr> hmmmmmmm
Aug 10 19:18:29 <pupnik> can't disagree there.  some people say they wouldn't like that design though
Aug 10 19:18:38 <sparr> why?1?
Aug 10 19:18:44 <erstazi> scummvm?
Aug 10 19:18:45 <_Monkey> scummvm is a program which allows you to run certain classic graphical point-and-click adventure games, provided you already have their data files. http://770.fs-security.com/scummvm/
Aug 10 19:18:51 <erstazi> does that work?
Aug 10 19:18:51 <sparr> im not talking about shrinking the screen like that picture from the forum
Aug 10 19:18:55 <sparr> erstazi: yes
Aug 10 19:19:02 <erstazi> I just added that
Aug 10 19:19:16 <erstazi> so far trying to add things to _Monkey so its more useful
Aug 10 19:19:19 <sparr> i think we could fit a few buttons without removing anything
Aug 10 19:19:26 <sparr> im going to take apart my 770 and see how packed that side is...
Aug 10 19:19:39 <pupnik> there are disassembly pics
Aug 10 19:19:56 <sparr> where?
Aug 10 19:20:00 <pupnik> and there aren't any free lines for more buttons
Aug 10 19:20:07 <sparr> aha
Aug 10 19:20:08 <sparr> found em
Aug 10 19:20:10 <pupnik> and the controller can't handle multiple presses
Aug 10 19:20:40 <pupnik> only path is bluetooth or usb
Aug 10 19:21:35 <sparr> :(
Aug 10 19:22:06 <pupnik> bluetooth gamepad is now 30 euro in germany, but you'd need to make a custom case
Aug 10 19:23:21 <sparr> usb...
Aug 10 19:23:22 <_Monkey> usb is working, i've dumped files onto the n800
Aug 10 19:23:28 <sparr> _Monkey: forget usb
Aug 10 19:23:29 <_Monkey> sparr: I forgot usb
Aug 10 19:24:06 <sparr> a keyboard that docks to the bottom of the 770 would rock...  but far too difficult for an amateur to fabricate
Aug 10 19:24:14 <sparr> a gamepad, on the other hand...  THAT i could maybe make
Aug 10 19:24:59 <sparr> has anyone dremel'd a hole in the silver case so that the stylus can be inserted/removed without opening it a little?  im considering that...
Aug 10 19:25:20 <zaf> sparr, i thought it covered the stylus so that it wouldn't fall out
Aug 10 19:25:37 <sparr> thats what the little spring clip inside is for
Aug 10 19:25:42 <sparr> my stylus is held in pretty firmly
Aug 10 19:25:49 <sparr> and i think i would notice it falling out, anyways
Aug 10 19:26:04 <sparr> i would only put the hole in the case-open side, so it would still cover the stylus when the case was closed
Aug 10 19:26:17 <zaf> true
Aug 10 19:26:23 <William001> mgedmin_: How do i compile "fuse" :)
Aug 10 19:26:30 <zaf> i dont see any reason why dremel would have troubles with it though
Aug 10 19:27:03 <mgedmin_> William001: I don't know
Aug 10 19:29:09 <sparr> take your 770.  put the case on in the 'open' configuration.  now, take the case halfway off.  picture a block of plastic filling the gap at the bottom.  this block would have a D-pad, an analog joystick, and maybe 4 decent sized buttons.  the block would connect to all 3 jacks on the bottom, and pass the power and headphones through.  what would you pay for that device?
Aug 10 19:29:43 <zaf> sparr, depends on if there's a qwerty keyboard in hte middle of all that
Aug 10 19:30:13 <sparr> there isnt
Aug 10 19:30:26 <zaf> $0
Aug 10 19:30:28 <sparr> i wanted to do the same thing with a keyboard, but building a whole keyboard is way outside my level of skill
Aug 10 19:30:37 <zaf> hehe
Aug 10 19:30:46 <sparr> and i cant find anyone that makes an appropriate sized/shaped keyboard to adapt
Aug 10 19:31:06 <zaf> what about the old 'thumbboards' for palm devices?
Aug 10 19:31:33 <sparr> http://img170.exs.cx/img170/6265/minikey9jh.jpg
Aug 10 19:32:00 <sparr> take that, add a clip and a battery...  thats my best idea for a keyboard so far
Aug 10 19:32:38 <zaf> if that thing was bluetooth it would even cooler
Aug 10 19:32:44 <sparr> all the existing thumbboards i can find are 'wrong' in a bunch of different ways.  first, virtually none of them are usb, which means lots of electronics work to make them work
Aug 10 19:33:11 <sparr> second, most have "special" keys that we would probably not use, and that waste a lot of space.  things like email and web dedicated buttons.
Aug 10 19:34:08 <pupnik> the thinkouside stowaway keyboard works fine here
Aug 10 19:35:21 <sparr> way too big
Aug 10 19:35:25 <sparr> and doesnt hard dock
Aug 10 19:35:45 <sparr> and uses bluetooth, which is a battery eater
Aug 10 19:37:00 <zaf> sparr, that little keyboard works on nokia?
Aug 10 19:37:05 <gw280> anyone else finding problems accessing maemo.org?
Aug 10 19:37:29 <sparr> zaf: it would if you added a battery and the published usb power inserter circuit
Aug 10 19:37:31 <pupnik> some accounts have trouble logging in
Aug 10 19:38:03 <pupnik> two aa rechargeables last about 30 hours in the stowaway for me
Aug 10 19:38:22 <sparr> bt eats nokia batteries too
Aug 10 19:38:52 <pupnik> i really haven't had a problem with that - 5-7 hours is enough
Aug 10 19:40:51 <zaf> http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/games/pid/6997082/a/PS2+Mini-key+Keyboard.htm <-- that thing is it, right?
Aug 10 19:41:07 <sparr> zaf: yes
Aug 10 19:41:14 <sparr> other sites have it for as low as $10
Aug 10 19:41:16 <sparr> froogle it
Aug 10 19:41:39 <zaf> but u have to add something else?
Aug 10 19:41:41 <sparr> yes
Aug 10 19:41:42 <sparr> power
Aug 10 19:42:07 <sparr> and you would have to enable usb host on the 770, of course.  thats supposedly not hard, but i havent done it yet
Aug 10 19:42:24 <zaf> and apparently you'd need a mini-usb to regular usb converter?
Aug 10 19:44:06 <zaf> hmm, one of those little keyboards would be handy in my server room too
Aug 10 19:47:45 <sparr> bah @ converter
Aug 10 19:47:55 <sparr> id cut the cable off and re-cap it with a mini plug
Aug 10 19:47:59 <sparr> make it much shorter too
Aug 10 19:48:09 <zaf> yah
Aug 10 19:49:29 <sparr> so...
Aug 10 19:49:35 <sparr> how much would you pay for a converted keyboard?
Aug 10 19:49:50 <sparr> that keyboard, with a battery compartment, shortened cable with a mini plug
Aug 10 19:51:18 <zaf> sounds interesting
Aug 10 19:56:02 <sparr> back to the gamepad idea...  psp joystick units are available in bulk for something like $5.
Aug 10 19:56:24 <sparr> many times have I had an idea for a small 'cottage industry' making handheld accessories
Aug 10 19:56:33 <sparr> but ive never really had the guts to go through with it
Aug 10 19:58:26 <Artemisprime> Hello
Aug 10 19:58:28 <pupnik> how much does it cost to make an injection mould
Aug 10 19:59:06 <pupnik> tak
Aug 10 19:59:15 <Artemisprime> Where does stuff innstall ?
Aug 10 19:59:31 <Artemisprime> What is the path ?
Aug 10 19:59:45 <pupnik> several areas, depending on what it is
Aug 10 19:59:55 <pupnik> binaries are usually in /usr/bin
Aug 10 20:00:07 <Artemisprime> K
Aug 10 20:00:18 <Artemisprime> Yes binaries
Aug 10 20:00:19 <_Monkey> binaries are usually in /usr/bin
Aug 10 20:00:27 <Artemisprime> Thanx
Aug 10 20:09:32 <tso> btw, i found ut what was wrong with my maemo mapper. i was using a older version, 1.3.5 i think. found the proper repository and upgraded to 1.4.7 and it works :)
Aug 10 20:18:51 <sparr> pupnik: to MAKE a mold?  virtually nothing.
Aug 10 20:18:56 <sparr> pupnik: time, more than anything else
Aug 10 20:19:40 <tso> hmm, how does one add a POI in maemo mapper?
Aug 10 20:19:51 <sparr> no idea
Aug 10 20:19:52 <pupnik> so what would a run of 200 cost
Aug 10 20:20:07 <sparr> 200 things-made-with-an-injection-mold?
Aug 10 20:20:30 <sparr> depends on the scale of the company.  i know some model plane hobbyists who would run that for a friend for material cost, a few dollars.
Aug 10 20:20:42 <sparr> most big manufacturing companies would laugh at anything under 10000
Aug 10 20:21:32 <pupnik> i've done fiberglass and epoxy before for a model airplane
Aug 10 20:22:39 <mgedmin_> tso: hold down the stylus for a few seconds
Aug 10 20:22:46 <mgedmin_> in the popup menu pick Location -> Add POI
Aug 10 20:22:56 <tso> heh, the one thing i didnt try. i keep forgetting about that menu!
Aug 10 20:34:35 <zaf> what would be cool is if i could use my treo's keyboard to type in the nokia
Aug 10 20:35:45 <tso> hmm, i think the closes you will get is something like that bluetooth frogpad :)
Aug 10 20:36:29 <erstazi> who uses a bt keyboard on the 770?
Aug 10 20:37:17 <tso> not me, yet. i want to get hold of one. but they are kinda "expensive"
Aug 10 20:38:23 <tso> and i have dreamed of testing one of these: http://frogpad.com/
Aug 10 20:41:01 <sparr> erstazi: we have one at work for the 770s...  and plenty more to use if we want from the macs
Aug 10 20:41:29 <sparr> http://sparr.homeip.net/maemo/kbmockup.jpg  <---  this is powered by four AAA batteries.  how much would you pay for it?
Aug 10 20:42:55 <erstazi> sparr, I was thinking of getting one for some code work, but I don't know, how much did you pay for it? what model is that?
Aug 10 20:43:06 <sparr> erstazi: its a mockup.  i havent made it.  just a concept
Aug 10 20:43:11 <erstazi> ah
Aug 10 20:43:15 <Fatal> sparr: looks like one would get a cramp, isn't it a wee bit small
Aug 10 20:43:21 <sparr> its the usb keyboard i linked earlier, plus some spring clips to hold it on, plus battery power for the usb
Aug 10 20:43:35 <sparr> Fatal: unfortunately the pickings are slim for usb keyboards anywhere near the right size
Aug 10 20:44:04 <Fatal> imagining holding it and using thumbs to press puts them in a weird position, really strains them
Aug 10 20:44:56 <pupnik> you'd need something approximately the width of the 770 to hold, wouldn't you?
Aug 10 20:45:54 <erstazi> that would be for something on your lap
Aug 10 20:45:55 <sparr> ive got it zoomed to real scale on my screen, so i can hold the 770 in front of it and try it
Aug 10 20:46:07 <sparr> i have quite small hands
Aug 10 20:46:07 <Fatal> having the keyboard below it is still strainful unless you could actually hold it with the keyboard, and not hold the 770
Aug 10 20:47:16 <sparr> with the 770 held with one index finger along each side, other fingers behind it...  my thumbs seem to reach more than far enough to use a keyboard like that
Aug 10 20:47:19 <tso> if one wants to do coding i think a fold out would do best...
Aug 10 20:47:35 <sparr> Fatal: being able to hold it by the keyboard is plausible...  depends on how you attach it to the device
Aug 10 20:48:06 <tso> but has anyone else noticed problems with the virtual "thumbboard" and editing input boxes that contain paragraph spacing?
Aug 10 20:48:24 <sparr> i dont anticipate coding on the 770 very often
Aug 10 20:48:32 <sparr> i want a keyboard for email, IM, typing in URLs
Aug 10 20:48:44 <Fatal> all I'm saying is, don't concentrate on how it'd look, concentrate what would be actually useful and easy to use w/o putting unnatural strain on your fingers
Aug 10 20:48:56 <sparr> onscreen keyboard is good for <20 characters, thumbboard for 20-200, fold out for 200+ (arbitrary limits off the top of my head)
Aug 10 20:49:37 <sparr> Fatal: so, lets say i work it out so you can safely hold it by the keyboard
Aug 10 20:49:40 <tso> i wonder why they dont allow it to jump to thumb mode when entering passwords...
Aug 10 20:50:12 <Fatal> sparr: I'd never pay more than for a BT keyboard, which is what, around $100-$150?
Aug 10 20:50:50 <erstazi> Fatal, currently $140 with frogpad
Aug 10 20:51:03 <erstazi> correction: $150 plus shipping
Aug 10 20:51:08 <sparr> Fatal: ok, say i aimed more around $30-50
Aug 10 20:51:21 <erstazi> sparr, and you are saving money by it being USB
Aug 10 20:51:34 <sparr> hmmmm
Aug 10 20:51:39 <sparr> its thin enough
Aug 10 20:51:43 <sparr> it might fit inside a half-open case
Aug 10 20:52:02 <erstazi> you drop bluetooth, then you are saving more money but power consumption goes up
Aug 10 20:52:41 <sparr> i disagree
Aug 10 20:52:51 <sparr> usb should not use more power than bt
Aug 10 20:52:53 <sparr> not even remotely close
Aug 10 20:53:30 <erstazi> well, to a point
Aug 10 20:53:39 <erstazi> BT does have a lot of power consumption
Aug 10 20:53:46 <erstazi> I forget that wireless does consume a lot
Aug 10 20:53:50 <erstazi> but it shouldn't be that way
Aug 10 20:54:15 <sparr> bluetooth is the wrong way to do things like this
Aug 10 20:54:26 <sparr> zigbee is a FAR better solution for portable input devices
Aug 10 20:55:35 <sparr> Fatal: picture my keyboard in this configuration (half open case)  http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=70&d=1141844575
Aug 10 20:56:35 <erstazi> how about this? http://www.virtual-laser-keyboard.com/
Aug 10 20:56:36 <sparr> the kb in the picture is from the OQO, and its a horrible keyboard for many reasons
Aug 10 20:56:41 <tso> can the 770 even power a device via usb?
Aug 10 20:56:43 <sparr> erstazi: expensive, and still bluetooth?
Aug 10 20:56:48 <sparr> tso: no, which is why the kb has to have batteries
Aug 10 20:56:52 <erstazi> yes
Aug 10 20:56:55 <erstazi> I don't mind the bt
Aug 10 20:57:00 <erstazi> just down the road I might want a keybaord
Aug 10 20:57:06 <erstazi> s/keybaord/keyboard
Aug 10 20:57:47 <sparr> at this point i am almost certain that i am going to build one thumbboard as i described above, with the small usb board
Aug 10 20:57:52 <sparr> if only to use for myself
Aug 10 20:57:57 <tso> that laser keyboard have issues tactile feedback. i have heard even the onscreen keyboard is better to use...
Aug 10 20:57:57 <sparr> but i think i might try to sell it too
Aug 10 20:59:01 <sparr> which is why i ask you guys...
Aug 10 20:59:03 <erstazi> tso, thats what i wondered, it seems that you would need a nice flat surface
Aug 10 20:59:06 <pupnik> see if you can find spare aluminum covers
Aug 10 21:00:53 <pupnik> if it doesn't fold up, the portability is ruined
Aug 10 21:14:42 <sparr> ok...
Aug 10 21:14:52 <sparr> froogle says fye.com has that keyboard for $12
Aug 10 21:15:01 <sparr> and theres a fye like 3 miles from my house
Aug 10 21:15:06 <sparr> if they have it in stock, im going to get one
Aug 10 21:18:01 <sparr> damn, no dice
Aug 10 21:19:24 <pupnik> what i need is a simple game available in both regular linux .deb and gp2x version
Aug 10 21:19:48 <pupnik> so i can run diffs and get an overview of the changes
Aug 10 21:21:24 <sparr> pupnik: good luck
Aug 10 21:21:29 <sparr> every port for the gp2x is different
Aug 10 21:21:36 <sparr> the simplest games have NO changes
Aug 10 21:21:41 <sparr> some stuff Just Works
Aug 10 21:21:55 <sparr> some games are MASSIVELY changed, for new input devices, to use the 940 for math or gpu, etc etc
Aug 10 21:22:00 <sparr> http://leeland.net/lib/leeland/keymod8.jpg
Aug 10 21:22:13 <pupnik> yeah
Aug 10 21:22:28 <tso> hmm, i didnt know there are proprietary driver issues with the 770. anyone care to enlighten me?
Aug 10 21:23:42 <pupnik> what is your question
Aug 10 21:24:20 <tso> as in, what parts are we talking about, and have there been done anything to make open source replacements?
Aug 10 21:24:48 <pupnik> i think the wlan is closed
Aug 10 21:25:22 <pupnik> also dsp
Aug 10 21:26:07 <pupnik> if i understand correctly, it's due to restrictions by the chipset mfgrs
Aug 10 21:26:13 <tso> woho...
Aug 10 21:26:23 <sparr> http://www.jr.com/Templates/HiRes/JR_HiRes.tem?HRIPath=FKBFREEMINI%2EPNG&HRTitle=FREEDOM+KEYBOARD+Mini+Bluetooth+Keyboard
Aug 10 21:26:27 <sparr> hows that for a bluetooth kb?
Aug 10 21:26:29 <tso> so no compleatly community based os if need be?
Aug 10 21:28:40 <erstazi> sp3000, is this a mockup as well?
Aug 10 21:29:25 <sparr> no, thats a real device
Aug 10 21:29:33 <erstazi> oh
Aug 10 21:29:38 <erstazi> that looks confusing to the normal eye
Aug 10 21:29:41 <sparr> http://www.dunhamssports.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2285253
Aug 10 21:29:44 <erstazi> you would have to get use to it
Aug 10 21:29:45 <sparr> $70 from a few different places
Aug 10 21:30:06 <erstazi> thats not bad for bt
Aug 10 21:30:13 <sparr> THAT keyboard with usb would be perfect for what i want to do
Aug 10 21:30:17 <sparr> but its bt  :(
Aug 10 21:33:20 <erstazi> yes
Aug 10 21:33:29 <erstazi> I am not opposed to that keyboard
Aug 10 21:33:41 <erstazi> but to someone you just hand it to, they would look at it like we were nuts
Aug 10 21:35:06 <tso> now thats a interesting keyboard. i would say its up there with frogpad :)
Aug 10 21:35:55 <erstazi> its less expensive than the frogpad
Aug 10 21:36:15 <tso> hmm, interesting
Aug 10 21:39:23 <tso> holy! i just found a local webshop that has that keyboard, and for a laughabley low price! i need to place a order :D
Aug 10 21:39:42 <tso> http://www.freedominput.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=25&Itemid=41
Aug 10 21:40:03 <tso> here is the makers own list of web shops
Aug 10 21:40:46 <unique311> http://www.jardinpresente.com.ar/trac/itaka/
Aug 10 21:40:53 <unique311> pretty nice app
Aug 10 21:41:13 <unique311> someone with python knowledge take a look at that link
Aug 10 21:41:22 <tso> hmm, if i double the price i get a full size qwerty...
Aug 10 21:43:35 <erstazi> tso, what price?
Aug 10 21:45:07 <tso> 290 nok for the small one, 499 for the larger. thats nice. as i have seen prices in the 1000 range. and thats as much as i payed for the 770 including shipment
Aug 10 21:46:15 <tso> hmm, i see that freedom also have a folder that when folded is about the same size as the freedom mini. but sadly thats not available from the local webshop
Aug 10 21:47:07 <sparr> unique311: uhm, doesnt seem complicated.
Aug 10 21:47:37 <unique311> except for the need of gtk2.10
Aug 10 21:47:45 <unique311> i tried to compile it..failed
Aug 10 21:47:59 <unique311> replace the need for 2.10 with 2.6.10
Aug 10 21:48:02 <unique311> still failed..
Aug 10 21:49:35 <unique311> 6+ files in the source
Aug 10 21:50:14 <unique311> dependencies pynotify and twisted
Aug 10 21:50:22 <unique311> installed those without issue.
Aug 10 22:10:38 <saaib> How do i add more streams to the audio player? It does not accepts ram, .pls extensions
Aug 10 22:12:24 <erstazi> saaib, use slimserver
Aug 10 22:12:31 <erstazi> then it streams in mp3 format
Aug 10 22:12:50 <erstazi> you use slimserver on your host computer (with the music) and it streams to your tablet
Aug 10 22:16:30 <erstazi> slimserver?
Aug 10 22:16:30 <_Monkey> slimserver is an application that powers the Squeezebox, Transporter and SLIMP3 network music players and is great software to stream my music to any software MP3 player. It supports MP3, AAC, WMA, FLAC, Ogg Vorbis, WAV and more! http://www.slimdevices.com/su_downloads.html
Aug 10 22:17:07 <saaib> erstazi, if I would setup a server on my station would be either ffserver or icecast/shoutcast... but I already have that, now, I plan to use my tablet in other networks where my station is not reachable so I would prefeer to configure direct access to the source streamming
Aug 10 22:17:44 <erstazi> saaib, ah
Aug 10 22:17:48 <erstazi> hmm
Aug 10 22:18:07 <saaib> does this means that there is no way to add URLs of ram or pls files?
Aug 10 22:18:27 <erstazi> saaib, it excepts m3u I think
Aug 10 22:18:35 <erstazi> s/excepts/accepts
Aug 10 22:18:47 <erstazi> ram is realplayer right?
Aug 10 22:18:57 <saaib> erstazi, that sucs... correct, ram is real audio
Aug 10 22:19:08 <erstazi> saaib, do you have a website or server?
Aug 10 22:19:22 <erstazi> ah that won't work
Aug 10 22:19:30 * erstazi not thinking
Aug 10 22:19:55 <saaib> erstazi, yes, I could setup a proxy streamming server internet wide reachable.. but i don't want that either
Aug 10 22:19:55 <erstazi> I was going to say change the playlists over to the m3u format or whatever it is including the code
Aug 10 22:19:57 <sparr> saaib: im sure Real would be happy to let you play real audio files on your 770, for a small fee of $10000
Aug 10 22:20:11 <erstazi> sparr, haha
Aug 10 22:20:22 <erstazi> saaib, you should just broadcast your slimserver haha
Aug 10 22:20:28 <erstazi> open a port up for it
Aug 10 22:20:28 <saaib> I think read somewhere that the 770 already reproduced realaudio files
Aug 10 22:20:38 <erstazi> saaib, I saw that also
Aug 10 22:21:00 <erstazi> saaib, give me an example .ram
Aug 10 22:21:05 <saaib> Anyhow... who here has googletalk?
Aug 10 22:21:28 <saaib> erstazi, http://www.wbur.org/listen/feed/shoutcast.ram
Aug 10 22:22:07 <sparr> i think you are confused between .ram streams and .ram files
Aug 10 22:22:15 <saaib> And another thing... is there a ticket client that can show up nasdaq symbols?
Aug 10 22:22:17 <sparr> real and microsoft (.asf) both do that ambiguously
Aug 10 22:22:41 <saaib> s/ticket/ticker/
Aug 10 22:22:41 <infobot> saaib meant: And another thing... is there a ticker client that can show up nasdaq symbols?
Aug 10 22:28:06 <erstazi> saaib, <stringvalue>file:///var/tmp/listen.pls</stringvalue>
Aug 10 22:28:09 <erstazi> I think it does pls
Aug 10 22:28:21 <erstazi> and m3u
Aug 10 22:28:58 <saaib> heh.. I logged into their shoutcast web site and copied the direct stream url
Aug 10 22:29:00 <erstazi> /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds/favourites.m3u is where my favourites.m3u is located (the applet player on the desktop)
Aug 10 22:29:07 <erstazi> did it work?
Aug 10 22:29:19 <erstazi> I have played shoutcast before on my 770 (OS2006)
Aug 10 22:29:56 <saaib> yeah.. its working now
Aug 10 22:37:12 <saaib> erstazi,  do you have a googletalk account so I can try the mic?
Aug 10 22:46:51 <Daniellion> Ohhh how did you get google talk working/?
Aug 10 22:53:16 <erstazi> saaib, I have an account but I cannot listen, working right now
Aug 10 22:55:20 <sparr> what are the odds that i get a $1500 tablet PC for $100 the week after i spent $150 on a 770?  :)
Aug 10 22:56:10 <||cw2> say what?
Aug 10 22:56:29 * ||cw2 wants a $1500 tablet for $100
Aug 10 22:57:14 <erstazi> sparr, what tablet is that?
Aug 10 22:57:49 <sparr> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1563040,00.asp
Aug 10 22:57:50 <sparr> that
Aug 10 22:57:58 <sparr> i might get it super cheap due to mislabelling in an auction
Aug 10 22:58:11 <sparr> <fingers crossed>
Aug 10 22:58:26 <||cw2> how much time left
Aug 10 22:58:44 <sparr> days.  normally id expect to get bid way up
Aug 10 22:58:52 <sparr> but they advertised it as a monitor
Aug 10 22:59:04 <||cw2> it'll get sniped I bet
Aug 10 22:59:08 <sparr> its in a dock...  to a casual observer it could be a 12" LCD
Aug 10 22:59:39 <sparr> on a more serious note...
Aug 10 22:59:44 <sparr> i just set up a google talk account on my 770
Aug 10 22:59:48 <sparr> tried to connect to it
Aug 10 22:59:49 <sparr> reboot
Aug 10 22:59:57 <sparr> now every time i do 'select connection' for wifi, reboot
Aug 10 23:00:00 <sparr> :(
Aug 10 23:01:38 <sparr> any advice?
Aug 10 23:02:06 <erstazi> hmm
Aug 10 23:02:12 <erstazi> I have had that happen before
Aug 10 23:02:21 <erstazi> I just rebooted
Aug 10 23:02:30 <sparr> trying that now
Aug 10 23:02:52 <erstazi> do you have a full charge? I know that sounds funny. but just had to ask
Aug 10 23:02:53 <aoirthoir> howdy peeps!
Aug 10 23:02:57 <erstazi> hello aoirthoir
Aug 10 23:03:05 <aoirthoir> erstazi, sup sup.
Aug 10 23:03:08 <sparr> battery icon is half full
Aug 10 23:03:10 <erstazi> aoirthoir, did you get your nokia 770 yet?
Aug 10 23:03:11 <sparr> guess i can plug it in
Aug 10 23:03:25 <aoirthoir> erstazi, no, they didnt send it, if I had known that I would not have ordered next day shipping.
Aug 10 23:03:31 <erstazi> yeah
Aug 10 23:03:32 <erstazi> thats sad
Aug 10 23:03:36 <aoirthoir> oh well:)
Aug 10 23:03:38 <erstazi> did you go through buy.com?
Aug 10 23:03:46 <aoirthoir> It did say on the site that it might be 1 to 10 days or something.
Aug 10 23:03:47 <aoirthoir> Yes.
Aug 10 23:04:00 <sparr> reboot seems to have fixed it
Aug 10 23:04:01 <erstazi> ah, I did the free shipping and it arrived in 3 days
Aug 10 23:04:07 <erstazi> sparr, crazy isn't it?
Aug 10 23:04:12 <sparr> nah
Aug 10 23:04:23 <sparr> just gotta pretend its running windows
Aug 10 23:04:28 <erstazi> haha
Aug 10 23:04:40 <erstazi> it only happened to me once
Aug 10 23:04:49 <erstazi> and honestly, I think it was when I set up googletalk
Aug 10 23:04:52 <erstazi> so talk about odd
Aug 10 23:05:02 <erstazi> I don't imagine anything was involved with each other
Aug 10 23:05:06 <||cw2> i always do the cheap chipping from the big places, it's rare that it doesn't come from the Memphis UPS hub, in STL i usualy get it overnight
Aug 10 23:05:10 <erstazi> unless something is wrong with the kernel
Aug 10 23:05:52 <aoirthoir> this is the second time ive done that, so i am going to have to stop doing overnight.
Aug 10 23:06:13 <erstazi> heh
Aug 10 23:06:19 <erstazi> yeah UPS, you know how they roll
Aug 10 23:06:23 <aoirthoir> hehe
Aug 10 23:06:28 <erstazi> they are too busy having all the housewives stare at htem
Aug 10 23:06:39 <erstazi> heh
Aug 10 23:07:57 <erstazi> aoirthoir, I have been filling the bot with responses
Aug 10 23:08:02 <erstazi> for instance:
Aug 10 23:08:04 <erstazi> xterm?
Aug 10 23:08:04 <_Monkey> hmmm... xterm is the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced
Aug 10 23:08:45 <erstazi> aoirthoir, when you get the 770, maemo.org is your friend (:
Aug 10 23:09:37 <erstazi> sparr, that m1400 looks nice, I use to snag listings that were never right all the time
Aug 10 23:09:43 <aoirthoir> erstazi, what bot?
Aug 10 23:09:50 <erstazi> aoirthoir, _Monkey
Aug 10 23:09:51 <_Monkey> erstazi: huh?
Aug 10 23:10:04 <aoirthoir> oh the bot in this room
Aug 10 23:10:17 <erstazi> _Monkey, you are a dumb monkey, but you still get a banana
Aug 10 23:10:18 <_Monkey> ...but _monkey is the best programmer in the whole freenode IRC right now...
Aug 10 23:10:29 <Artemisprime> Is java possible  on the 770?
Aug 10 23:10:31 <erstazi> _Monkey, botsnack
Aug 10 23:10:31 <_Monkey> thanks erstazi :)
Aug 10 23:10:41 <erstazi> Artemisprime, at the moment, no
Aug 10 23:10:47 <Artemisprime> Damn
Aug 10 23:10:55 <erstazi> Artemisprime, hold  asec
Aug 10 23:11:00 <Artemisprime> Hello erstazi
Aug 10 23:11:12 <Artemisprime> This is glizitch
Aug 10 23:11:34 <Artemisprime> Im on the 770 now
Aug 10 23:11:40 <milhouse> hmm... itt forum down again?
Aug 10 23:11:53 <Artemisprime> Hell milhouse
Aug 10 23:11:56 <Artemisprime> O
Aug 10 23:12:04 <milhouse> h
Aug 10 23:12:05 <milhouse> i
Aug 10 23:12:11 <Artemisprime> Hhe
Aug 10 23:12:19 <milhouse> oh no it's up - just very slow
Aug 10 23:12:32 <aoirthoir> erstazi, tektonic is great
Aug 10 23:12:42 <Artemisprime> Im on pidgin thanks  to your help milhouse
Aug 10 23:12:53 <Artemisprime> :)
Aug 10 23:13:01 <aoirthoir> its got client side backup that backs up directly from your username
Aug 10 23:13:26 <milhouse> artemisprime - excellent :)
Aug 10 23:13:37 <FerrariD> Good afternoon !
Aug 10 23:13:41 <Artemisprime> This is glizitch
Aug 10 23:13:48 <Artemisprime> Btw
Aug 10 23:14:06 <erstazi> Artemisprime, last I knew, java isn't ported
Aug 10 23:14:13 <erstazi> hi FerrariD
Aug 10 23:14:17 <Artemisprime> Dammit
Aug 10 23:14:19 <FerrariD> Hi! :)
Aug 10 23:14:20 <erstazi> aoirthoir, yes, its a nice service overall
Aug 10 23:14:24 <erstazi> Artemisprime, I am checking though
Aug 10 23:14:30 <Artemisprime> No hotmail then
Aug 10 23:14:37 <Artemisprime> Hehe
Aug 10 23:14:47 <Artemisprime> Cool
Aug 10 23:14:52 <Artemisprime> Thanx
Aug 10 23:15:31 <FerrariD> I have a question, and before I annoy you with it, I'd like to ask if I'm in the right place::: I'd like to install linux on a nokia phone (model?) and make it send pictures back via eMail. Can I get help here?
Aug 10 23:15:35 <erstazi> Artemisprime, You could run the
Aug 10 23:15:35 <erstazi> Blackdown J2ME for ARM.
Aug 10 23:15:47 <FerrariD> Or would you guys have another link/forum or a general direction where I could go? :)
Aug 10 23:15:55 <FerrariD> Thanks a lot, btw! =]
Aug 10 23:16:09 <erstazi> FerrariD, I am not sure about a nokia phone but this is for nokia tablets mostly, an open source community
Aug 10 23:16:10 <Artemisprime> Ill do it
Aug 10 23:16:14 <erstazi> FerrariD, let me check something
Aug 10 23:16:43 <Artemisprime> D u have a link?
Aug 10 23:17:03 <erstazi> FerrariD, http://www.gnokii.org/
Aug 10 23:17:11 <erstazi> Artemisprime, working on that, I am going to add it to _Monkey
Aug 10 23:17:21 <Artemisprime> K thanx
Aug 10 23:18:20 <Artemisprime> Java ?
Aug 10 23:19:05 <FerrariD> Thanks erztazi! I've been reading the gnokii.org page, but I'm kind of amiss. Sorry to post in the tablet forum. Would you have any idea where I could get this programming job done?
Aug 10 23:19:09 <FerrariD> Thanks!
Aug 10 23:19:23 <FerrariD> *erstazi (sorry for the typo =\ )
Aug 10 23:20:30 <erstazi> FerrariD, not sure, I don't have a nokia phone (: its ok, we all make mistakes with typing, you should see my programming sometimes
Aug 10 23:20:43 <FerrariD> LoL
Aug 10 23:20:57 <FerrariD> My programming skills extend to "=SUM(xx:yy)" in Excel LoL
Aug 10 23:21:01 <FerrariD> Ok, but thank you very much
Aug 10 23:21:08 <FerrariD> I'm going to see if I ask around somewhere else.
Aug 10 23:21:11 <FerrariD> Thanks a million ! :)
Aug 10 23:22:23 <erstazi> Artemisprime, http://www.blackdown.org/
Aug 10 23:23:14 <Artemisprime> What do i l ?
Aug 10 23:23:19 <Artemisprime> Dl?
Aug 10 23:24:24 <Artemisprime> On the ftp ?
Aug 10 23:24:39 <erstazi> yes
Aug 10 23:25:17 <erstazi> Artemisprime, select debian
Aug 10 23:25:36 <erstazi> and sarge
Aug 10 23:25:42 <erstazi> for dists
Aug 10 23:25:51 <Artemisprime> K
Aug 10 23:26:09 <erstazi> and you have to compile the source
Aug 10 23:26:16 <erstazi> I would make a package for you but its non-free
Aug 10 23:26:26 <erstazi> closed source
Aug 10 23:27:14 <Artemisprime> I dont have a compiler
Aug 10 23:27:56 <erstazi> Artemisprime, hold a sec, let me try something
Aug 10 23:29:00 <Artemisprime> This doesnt make sense
Aug 10 23:29:22 <Artemisprime> Only 2k
Aug 10 23:31:17 <erstazi> Artemisprime, I dont know if its that right
Aug 10 23:31:52 <Artemisprime> <What do u mean ?
Aug 10 23:32:28 <Artemisprime> I doesnt seem to be ported o armel
Aug 10 23:32:47 <Artemisprime> Right ?
Aug 10 23:34:25 <erstazi> Artemisprime, at the time, no, but scratchbox developers are not jumping on porting it... its non-free and its very resource hungry
Aug 10 23:35:20 <Artemisprime> I see it
Aug 10 23:35:24 <Artemisprime> Knda
Aug 10 23:35:44 <Artemisprime> I wish i could pste the link
Aug 10 23:36:48 <Artemisprime> Google blacdown j2e for arm
Aug 10 23:36:57 <erstazi> Artemisprime, go to http://maemo.org/intro/roadmap.html then go to Wishlist > Development
Aug 10 23:37:02 <Artemisprime> Firsrt link
Aug 10 23:37:39 <erstazi> mail archive?
Aug 10 23:38:26 <Artemisprime> T seemser to exist
Aug 10 23:39:56 <erstazi> Artemisprime, http://lwn.net/2001/0607/a/java2se.php3
Aug 10 23:40:39 <Artemisprime> Did u seee my link
Aug 10 23:41:22 <Artemisprime> Java support  on pocketp
Aug 10 23:41:25 <Artemisprime> C
Aug 10 23:41:28 <erstazi> ah
Aug 10 23:42:35 <Artemisprime> In ur link i can dl ?
Aug 10 23:42:47 <erstazi> Artemisprime, attempting, I am cleaning some stuff up
Aug 10 23:43:26 <erstazi> Artemisprime, you need to read this: http://lwn.net/2001/0607/a/java2se.php3
Aug 10 23:43:27 <Artemisprime> They all point to the same mirrors
Aug 10 23:43:42 <Artemisprime> Yes i did
Aug 10 23:44:58 <Artemisprime> <Its the same dead end
Aug 10 23:46:11 <erstazi> Artemisprime, let me check something
Aug 10 23:46:39 <Artemisprime> Ok
Aug 10 23:55:06 <sparr> the built in chat/email stuff is annoying, imho
Aug 10 23:55:24 <sparr> anyone working on actually replacing them?
Aug 10 23:55:41 <sparr> not just installing other stuff, but actually fixing file associations and recovering the space wasted by them?
Aug 10 23:55:52 <Artemisprime> Sparr ; u mean googletalk and jabber
Aug 10 23:56:03 <sparr> and the email client
Aug 10 23:56:09 <sparr> which is pitiful
Aug 10 23:56:29 <Artemisprime>  Havent used any of it
Aug 10 23:56:34 <Artemisprime> Hehe
Aug 10 23:56:55 <Artemisprime> It cant being deleted ?
Aug 10 23:58:11 <sparr> it probably can
Aug 10 23:58:13 <sparr> hence my question
Aug 10 23:58:28 <Artemisprime> Right
Aug 10 23:58:33 <Artemisprime> Brb
Aug 11 00:10:49 <Artemisprime> Erstazi  i gtg
Aug 11 00:11:11 <Artemisprime> Ill check in later
Aug 11 00:11:17 <Artemisprime> Peace
Aug 11 00:25:14 <sparr> awww crap
Aug 11 00:25:24 <sparr> i just removed libc6
Aug 11 00:25:50 <sparr> can anyone tell me where apt-get lives ?
Aug 11 00:25:53 <sparr> like, the binary
Aug 11 00:27:33 <erstazi> sparr, 770 or n800
Aug 11 00:27:39 <erstazi> oops
Aug 11 00:27:43 <sparr> 770
Aug 11 00:27:43 <erstazi> OS2006 or 2007?
Aug 11 00:27:45 <sparr> 2006
Aug 11 00:28:19 <Artemisprime> Hello
Aug 11 00:28:35 <Artemisprime> Er back ?
Aug 11 00:28:59 <DaniloCesar> Hi. Why sometimes my N800 network inferface go down without any reason? I think that is a power safe thing right? Can I disability this feature?
Aug 11 00:29:45 <onion> sigh, still another 100km untiil sleep, but mapper works :)
Aug 11 00:30:27 <sparr> i am well and truly hosed
Aug 11 00:30:31 <onion> no crashes
Aug 11 00:30:31 <sparr> i cant scp
Aug 11 00:30:33 <erstazi> sp3000, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo2.2/free/a/apt/apt_0.6.42.3osso13_armel.deb
Aug 11 00:30:41 <sparr> erstazi: i mean on the unit
Aug 11 00:30:45 <sparr> is it /bin/apt-get?
Aug 11 00:30:47 <sparr> or /usr/bin
Aug 11 00:30:50 <sparr> or /sbin/?
Aug 11 00:30:51 <erstazi> mmm
Aug 11 00:31:13 <sparr> i think i just bricked my 770 :(
Aug 11 00:31:39 <DaniloCesar> I'm connected with my N800 from my notebook over SSH, and than my connection goes down. Can I put my N800 to work every time, without this power-safe feature??
Aug 11 00:32:53 <erstazi> /usr/bin/apt-get
Aug 11 00:33:01 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, there is something on maemo.org about that
Aug 11 00:33:18 <Artemisprime> Erstazi ; any luckwith java ?
Aug 11 00:33:27 <erstazi> Artemisprime, none
Aug 11 00:33:27 <DaniloCesar> Can someone help me to keep my connection alive?
Aug 11 00:33:29 <sparr> well, crap
Aug 11 00:33:38 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, ^^
Aug 11 00:33:49 <sparr> i cant run anything
Aug 11 00:34:09 <DaniloCesar> erstazi, I'd had searched there before....
Aug 11 00:34:42 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, hold a sec
Aug 11 00:34:44 <DaniloCesar> I trying to do this with acmonitor, but that is not working
Aug 11 00:37:18 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, ok, this is going to be difficult, I don't have OS2007 infront of me so I don't know the system
Aug 11 00:37:24 <erstazi> can you go to your control panel?
Aug 11 00:37:45 <DaniloCesar> OK
Aug 11 00:38:00 <erstazi> is there a Connectivity? go to that
Aug 11 00:38:08 <DaniloCesar> ok
Aug 11 00:38:45 <DaniloCesar> there are two tabs there: "General" and "Idle Times"
Aug 11 00:38:45 <sparr> shit
Aug 11 00:38:45 <Artemisprime> Soo no dice on java ?n
Aug 11 00:38:48 <sparr> i just lost my ssh session
Aug 11 00:38:53 <sparr> this is bad
Aug 11 00:39:31 <sparr> whats the procedure with a bricked 770?  can it be reflashed somehow?
Aug 11 00:40:00 <erstazi> Idle times
Aug 11 00:40:07 <erstazi> sparr, yes
Aug 11 00:40:21 <erstazi> sparr, what OS do you have primarily?
Aug 11 00:40:24 <sparr> linux
Aug 11 00:40:34 <sparr> guess this is a good excuse to try the OS 2007 hacker edition  :)
Aug 11 00:40:37 <erstazi> sparr, what distro?
Aug 11 00:40:43 <sparr> debian
Aug 11 00:40:43 <_Monkey> rumour has it debian is footwear
Aug 11 00:40:45 <sparr> ish
Aug 11 00:40:47 <sparr> well, ubuntu
Aug 11 00:40:48 <sparr> ish
Aug 11 00:40:51 <sparr> well, kubuntu
Aug 11 00:40:52 <_Monkey> kubuntu is on erstazi's wife's computer
Aug 11 00:40:53 <sparr> :)
Aug 11 00:40:56 <erstazi> sparr, haha, I have ubuntu
Aug 11 00:40:57 <sparr> _Monkey: forget debian
Aug 11 00:40:58 <_Monkey> sparr: I forgot debian
Aug 11 00:41:00 <erstazi> as you can see
Aug 11 00:41:00 <sparr> _Monkey: forget kubuntu
Aug 11 00:41:01 <_Monkey> sparr: I forgot kubuntu
Aug 11 00:41:27 <erstazi> sparr, let me see here
Aug 11 00:41:50 <DaniloCesar> OK... there are 3 options there. "GPRS idle time", "WLAN idle time" and "Data call idle time". Both of then are "Unlimited"
Aug 11 00:42:23 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, hold a sec
Aug 11 00:42:39 <erstazi> sparr, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux
Aug 11 00:42:46 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, ok, I saw it somewhere
Aug 11 00:44:31 <sparr> ok, here goes nothing
Aug 11 00:44:37 <sparr> 770 off
Aug 11 00:44:53 <sparr> and it won't even try to turn on
Aug 11 00:44:56 <sparr> no response to the power button
Aug 11 00:45:06 <sparr> ahh, there it goes, kinda slow
Aug 11 00:45:12 <sparr> no progress bar.  THAT is what i expected
Aug 11 00:45:45 <erstazi> sparr, sometimes the boot is slow
Aug 11 00:48:22 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, I know there is a way to keep connection alive
Aug 11 00:48:28 <sparr> Suitable USB device not found, waiting
Aug 11 00:48:34 <sparr> flasher doesnt seem to see the 770
Aug 11 00:48:50 <erstazi> hmm
Aug 11 00:48:51 <erstazi> is it mounted?
Aug 11 00:49:48 <erstazi> ok DaniloCesar go back to the connection manager in tools (I think that is where it is) not in the control panel but tools
Aug 11 00:49:59 <erstazi> crap it is in the control panel
Aug 11 00:50:15 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, do you see disconnect when cover on device?
Aug 11 00:50:33 <erstazi> uncheck that, this is a far stretch but when you put the cover on, it puts it in standby
Aug 11 00:50:58 <DaniloCesar> erstazi, No...
Aug 11 00:51:44 <sparr> when i connect the 770 via usb without the power cable, nothing happens
Aug 11 00:52:05 <sparr> when i connect it with the power cable, i get 4 new usb device reports from syslog, then a 'disconnect' notice, then 4 lost device reports
Aug 11 00:52:31 <DaniloCesar> wait... uncheck what?
Aug 11 00:52:43 <sparr> ditto when i power the device on with the usb cable connected
Aug 11 00:53:10 <sparr> ditto when i connect the usb cable with the device powered on
Aug 11 00:54:42 <sparr> this is getting more worrisome
Aug 11 00:55:07 <DaniloCesar> erstazi, What do I need to uncheck?
Aug 11 00:55:46 <erstazi> DaniloCesar, check this: http://tinyurl.com/352ovr
Aug 11 00:55:53 <sparr> aha
Aug 11 00:55:59 <sparr> i missed the 'hold home down' step
Aug 11 00:56:27 <DaniloCesar> erstazi, OK!
Aug 11 00:57:10 <sparr> woot
Aug 11 00:57:11 <sparr> go flasher!
Aug 11 00:57:13 <sparr> go flasher go
Aug 11 00:57:17 <sparr> see flasher
Aug 11 00:57:19 <sparr> see flasher go
Aug 11 00:57:21 <sparr> go flasher go
Aug 11 00:57:35 <erstazi> haha
Aug 11 00:57:58 <sparr> hacker edition rootfs is 77 megs
Aug 11 00:58:00 <sparr> ouch
Aug 11 00:58:04 <sparr> good news though...
Aug 11 00:58:13 <sparr> i can apply localepurge to a 'virgin' installation
Aug 11 00:58:18 <sparr> see how much space it saves
Aug 11 00:58:54 <Fatal> iirc unpurged /usr/share/locale was ~3MB
Aug 11 00:59:10 <Fatal> but I might have been high on something
Aug 11 00:59:48 <sparr> well, im running hacker edition
Aug 11 00:59:53 <sparr> so lord knows what will be different
Aug 11 01:00:08 <erstazi> sparr, now you have to focus on maemo3 +
Aug 11 01:00:26 <Fatal> sparr: as did I
Aug 11 01:00:33 <sparr> im hoping 2007 has updated libraries
Aug 11 01:00:33 <erstazi> hi jacques
Aug 11 01:00:43 <erstazi> sparr, yeah I might myself go for it
Aug 11 01:00:44 <sparr> which should mean less dpkg bullying to get things to install
Aug 11 01:00:46 <erstazi> I hear its slower
Aug 11 01:01:03 <sparr> ok, new user prompts on the screen
Aug 11 01:01:06 <sparr> time to start fresh  :)
Aug 11 01:01:16 <erstazi> (:
Aug 11 01:01:47 <sparr> is it just me or does the 770's UI not have any provision for changing the time zone?  it seems stuck on london(?)
Aug 11 01:02:10 <Fatal> it's in the menu
Aug 11 01:02:27 <erstazi> sparr, I always just tapped near by where I am at and it worked haha
Aug 11 01:02:30 <Fatal> and don't say 770 if you're talking about HE :)
Aug 11 01:02:43 <sparr> im talking about 2006 now
Aug 11 01:02:46 <sparr> dunno what 2007 has yet
Aug 11 01:03:25 <sparr> i dont mean home city
Aug 11 01:03:32 <Fatal> sure, I don't recall the timezone/locale settings being any different between 2006/2007(HE)
Aug 11 01:03:39 <erstazi> sparr, that changes your timezone if you select home city
Aug 11 01:03:50 <sparr> no, it doesnt
Aug 11 01:03:55 <erstazi> does for me
Aug 11 01:03:57 <Fatal> yes it does
Aug 11 01:04:02 <sparr> it changes the clock applet's stuff
Aug 11 01:04:12 <sparr> it doesnt hit /etc/timezone, or affect the ACTUAL timezone
Aug 11 01:04:29 <sparr> bug reports on the forums about time off by 5 hours on gpe calendar stuff is likely caused by this
Aug 11 01:04:38 <erstazi> Europe/Helsinki
Aug 11 01:04:41 <erstazi> thats what I have
Aug 11 01:04:51 <erstazi> I am sure I can change that manually
Aug 11 01:04:53 <sparr> yeah.  thats a very high level setting
Aug 11 01:04:57 <sparr> its in control panel / date time
Aug 11 01:05:05 <sparr> doesnt actually change anything other than the clock applet
Aug 11 01:05:41 <erstazi> sparr, you know why?
Aug 11 01:05:59 <erstazi> I think its because they were promoting this device to business people who travel
Aug 11 01:06:02 <sparr> because nokia doesnt have much experience with linux?  :)
Aug 11 01:06:08 <erstazi> hence needing to change the timezone a lot
Aug 11 01:06:23 <erstazi> sparr, you can always rewrite that and submit a fix (:
Aug 11 01:06:25 <sparr> changing Home City doesn't change the clock time
Aug 11 01:06:39 <sparr> my clock time is UTC...  and the only way ive seen to "fix" that is to edit /etc/timezone
Aug 11 01:06:57 <Fatal> # date
Aug 11 01:06:57 <Fatal> Sat Aug 11 03:04:54 CEST 2007
Aug 11 01:07:25 <erstazi> # date
Aug 11 01:07:25 <erstazi> Fri Aug 10 21:04:56 EDT 2007
Aug 11 01:07:54 <sparr> grr
Aug 11 01:08:01 <sparr> rub it in my face, i have to go reinstall sshd and xterm
Aug 11 01:08:05 <erstazi> haha
Aug 11 01:08:10 <Fatal> but sure, /etc/timezone is a static value
Aug 11 01:08:25 <sparr> gah
Aug 11 01:08:28 <sparr> i have to reconfig my wireless
Aug 11 01:09:34 <erstazi> I hate having to make keys for wifi
Aug 11 01:09:36 <erstazi> it gets old
Aug 11 01:11:09 <sparr> my wpa key is antidisestablishmentarianism
Aug 11 01:11:32 <Fatal> # ls -l /etc/localtime
Aug 11 01:11:32 <Fatal> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     users          36 Aug  4 21:30 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Stockholm
Aug 11 01:11:48 <sparr> omg, the hacker edition sources.list has more than two crappy repositories!!
Aug 11 01:11:49 <Fatal> someone should fix gpecalendar to not use /etc/timezone
Aug 11 01:12:24 <Fatal> or smack someone up the head for keeping /etc/timezone around if they don't update it
Aug 11 01:12:27 <sparr> someone should fix maemo to update it
Aug 11 01:12:32 <sparr> i vote for the latter
Aug 11 01:12:37 <Fatal> I vote for removal
Aug 11 01:12:46 <Fatal> and as such, fixing gpe calendar aswell
Aug 11 01:19:06 <sparr> either way
Aug 11 01:19:09 <sparr> im gonna file a bug on it
Aug 11 01:19:12 <sparr> when i get back.  afk.
Aug 11 01:20:01 <Fatal> plus, /etc/timezone is only used by tzselect on debian, so it's probably just better to remove it instead of having it around and leading people on wild goosechases
Aug 11 01:21:29 <saaib> wooho!
Aug 11 01:23:50 <saaib> ok, time to go home... see ya all
Aug 11 01:35:56 <erstazi> who is the owner of _Monkey?
Aug 11 02:53:37 <zerojay> It appears that I just hardlocked the latest microb browser.
Aug 11 02:53:59 <zerojay> Actually, the entire tablet.
Aug 11 02:54:16 <zerojay> And the watchdog doesn't appear to be kicking in either. ;/
Aug 11 02:55:36 <mvhtest> are you in r&d mode?
Aug 11 02:55:57 <zerojay> Nope.
Aug 11 02:56:27 <zerojay> whoa.. very weird.
Aug 11 02:56:49 <mvhtest> erstazi: Milhouse owns _monkey and he's busy getting his arse whipped in Battlefield 2142....
Aug 11 02:57:00 <zerojay> The screen dimmed all the way and when I hit the screen... suddenly I had my tablet back again. Weird.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Aug 11 02:59:57 2007