**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 13 02:59:56 2007 Aug 13 03:05:07 unique311: updated the screenshots in prep for release day tomorrow: https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/wiki/ScreenShots Aug 13 03:10:14 does this work with the latest mplayer (the one serge released the other day)? Aug 13 03:10:23 this being the latest kagu Aug 13 03:10:23 yeah Aug 13 03:10:36 ok cool... any other srv or bluez deb changes? Aug 13 03:10:44 no, not yet Aug 13 03:10:47 will update my instructions-for-dummies Aug 13 03:11:02 honestly, I've got my hands full with Kagu. I don't really have time to maintain the bluez stuff. Aug 13 03:11:52 I'm not sure if Kagu will ever "end" either. Looks like the project will continue indefinitely. touch screens are fairly new still, and uncommon, and kagu intends to exploit them to the fullest. Aug 13 03:12:18 ... in a "finger friendly" way ... Aug 13 03:12:47 not sure if that's a good or a bad thing :) Aug 13 03:12:56 (never ending) Aug 13 03:13:06 at least it will keep you out of trouble Aug 13 03:13:07 so long as I enjoy it, it's a good thing Aug 13 03:14:17 I do intend to slow down development in a few weeks. We've been going full tilt for about 2 months now. As it gets more feature complete, I intend to release less often. Aug 13 03:14:44 I'll probably have more time after that point. Aug 13 03:16:12 Well, I'm off to watch some Naruto. later peeps. Aug 13 03:16:34 tata - and thanks :) Aug 13 03:18:59 hello, can i ask a ushare question? Aug 13 03:20:32 hmmm.... i occasionally end up with two orphaned a2dpd processes Aug 13 03:20:52 hi guys Aug 13 03:21:29 someone is kind from paste its sources.list? Aug 13 03:21:33 i have a problem Aug 13 03:22:04 http://rafb.net/p/Mv8RGL89.html Aug 13 03:22:10 there is someone? Aug 13 03:22:24 you need to be more specific Aug 13 03:22:32 what sources list - for a 770 or n800? Aug 13 03:22:40 n800 Aug 13 03:23:29 http://pastebin.ca/655186 - knock yourself out Aug 13 03:23:46 oh thanks :D Aug 13 03:28:41 mmm Aug 13 03:28:41 http://pastebin.ca/655187 Aug 13 03:28:42 ;| Aug 13 03:30:24 is normal? Aug 13 03:36:50 hmmm... dunno how that got there Aug 13 03:37:46 http://pastebin.ca/655193 <--- try that, looks ok here Aug 13 03:38:41 oh hang on, you were posted what you were getting? Sorry thought you were suggesting my pastebin was wrong... duh Aug 13 03:38:47 mm Aug 13 03:39:01 why are you performing an apt-get upgrade? Aug 13 03:39:26 you're on your own for that, I think Aug 13 03:41:10 i try with http://pastebin.ca/655193? Aug 13 03:42:18 if you like, i'm not really sure what your problem is Aug 13 03:42:32 ok i try Aug 13 03:42:55 do you want to explain your problem or shall we spend the rest of the night guessing? Aug 13 03:43:55 i cant wait for the 800's price to drop :) Aug 13 03:44:04 $100 in a couple of years Aug 13 03:44:46 ebay? Aug 13 03:45:16 probably woot Aug 13 03:46:06 sorry milhouse i little speak english Aug 13 03:46:36 I would want to only have more link in mine sources.list Aug 13 03:46:43 more apps Aug 13 03:46:46 i understand... but it looks like your attempt to call apt-get upgrade failed... why do you want to upgrade? Aug 13 03:47:32 it is not necessary apt-get upgrade? Aug 13 03:47:51 it's not that it's not necessary, it doesn't work and could bugger your n800 Aug 13 03:48:01 (requiring a reflash) Aug 13 03:48:20 ooh Aug 13 03:48:23 clearly Aug 13 03:48:26 :-) Aug 13 03:48:53 therefore he is normal.. Aug 13 03:48:56 yawn? Aug 13 03:48:58 grabbing random sources.list files may save you some time but also may expose you to applications you don't want/need/understand... Aug 13 03:49:22 best thing to do is just add repositories as you need them Aug 13 03:49:58 clearly Aug 13 03:50:05 thanks Aug 13 03:50:14 no problem :) Aug 13 03:50:50 according to you it will be possible to make to turn fluxbox on n800? : D Aug 13 03:51:06 that i don't know, sorry Aug 13 03:51:16 noproblem Aug 13 03:52:27 but therefore now I leave the sources.list puts into effect them and is ok true? Aug 13 03:52:37 should be Aug 13 03:53:01 nothing very harmful in my sources.list :) Aug 13 03:53:01 ok ;) Aug 13 03:53:20 :D Aug 13 03:54:40 I wanted to install wget and pico Aug 13 03:54:48 look on maemo Aug 13 03:55:01 wget is easy... apt-get install wget Aug 13 03:55:18 dont work Aug 13 03:55:42 http://rafb.net/p/Z2OlIc35.html Aug 13 03:56:44 odd... should work. Aug 13 03:57:22 :| Aug 13 03:58:20 install by maemo.org ok! Aug 13 03:58:32 (sorry for my english :P) Aug 13 03:59:39 and nano ok. Aug 13 03:59:50 uh nano no. Aug 13 04:00:40 Il vostro inglese è migliore del mio... Italiano? Aug 13 04:01:06 :D Aug 13 04:01:12 il tuo italiano sembra ok! Aug 13 04:01:17 haha Aug 13 04:01:35 thank _Monkey :) Aug 13 04:01:59 lol Aug 13 04:02:01 _monkey translate to italian _Monkey is very handy Aug 13 04:02:02 <_Monkey> milhouse: _ la scimmia è molto pratica Aug 13 04:02:08 lool Aug 13 04:02:38 where are you from? Aug 13 04:02:44 UK (London) Aug 13 04:02:56 :) Aug 13 04:03:34 florence (mugello) Aug 13 04:04:10 nice :) Aug 13 04:04:17 :) Aug 13 04:04:21 i go to bed..thx to all! Aug 13 04:04:22 nite! Aug 13 04:04:36 not surprised... very late where you are (late for me too) Aug 13 04:04:37 cya Aug 13 04:04:51 * k8 is away: sleep Aug 13 04:05:13 now is 6.00 a.m Aug 13 04:05:14 << Aug 13 04:30:31 I need a script that will tell a program to be run from terminal Aug 13 04:30:44 not sure if that makes sense Aug 13 05:11:14 Grr. A week spent perfecting my 770 setup, and it looks like I'm having to reflash because the package manager freaked out while installing Tasks, and now I can't install or uninstall anything. :( Aug 13 05:14:28 apt-get -f install in terminal Aug 13 05:21:14 rafb.net/p/i2pZxJ91.html Aug 13 05:22:02 That's the results of the apt-get command. Aug 13 05:22:08 ouch Aug 13 05:22:15 edit /var/lib/dpkg/status Aug 13 05:22:19 look at the line in question Aug 13 05:22:27 might be an easy fix, might be a trashed status file Aug 13 05:22:38 if the latter... ouch Aug 13 05:22:46 but, im sympathetic Aug 13 05:22:50 if you flash, ill flash :) Aug 13 05:22:53 Anyone know how to jump straight to that line in vim? Aug 13 05:23:43 1234g Aug 13 05:23:52 3783g, that is :) Aug 13 05:26:54 * GreySim sighs. Aug 13 05:27:12 bad news? Aug 13 05:27:16 No idea how to copy and paste it now. I'm somewhat familiar with vim, but I still haven't used it much. Aug 13 05:27:34 just retype that line here Aug 13 05:27:35 verbatim Aug 13 05:27:44 It *looks* normal though, aside from some kind of hash in the conffiles section. Okay, one sec. Aug 13 05:28:10 it should say Aug 13 05:28:16 Depends: somepackagename, someotherpackagename Aug 13 05:30:56 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.5-1), libdbus-1-2 )(>= 0.61), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.61), libgconf2-6 (>= 2.6.4.14), libglib2.0-0 (>=2.8.6-1osso1), (>= 1.12-1), Aug 13 05:31:21 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.5-1), libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.61), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.61), libgconf2-6 (>= 2.6.4.14), libglib2.0-0 (>=2.8.6-1osso1), (>= 1.12-1), Aug 13 05:31:21 that last bit Aug 13 05:31:23 Rather. Aug 13 05:31:32 get rid of ", (>= 1.12-1)," Aug 13 05:31:39 so it ends "osso1)" Aug 13 05:32:02 Oh, I screwed something up. Dunno if I spaced out somehow while typing or what, hold on. Sorry. :\ Aug 13 05:32:25 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.5-1), libdbus-1-2 (>= 0.61), libdbus-glib-1-2 (>= 0.61), libgconf2-6 (>= 2.6.4.14), libglib2.0-0 (>=2.8.6-1osso1), libosso1 (>= 1.12-1), Aug 13 05:32:31 heh, ok then Aug 13 05:32:36 get rid of the trailing comma Aug 13 05:32:44 is that the last line of the file? Aug 13 05:33:00 Nope. Aug 13 05:33:07 no idea what could cause that to happen Aug 13 05:33:11 the comma is probably the problem, though Aug 13 05:33:17 do an apt-get update after Aug 13 05:33:21 see if the comma comes back Aug 13 05:33:44 either way, i suspect your system might be broken in some way or another Aug 13 05:35:17 So is apt-get enabled by default now then? Reading around previous reading material, it sounded like something you had to explicitly activate... Aug 13 05:35:42 its not something thats 'enabled', although you have to add it to the sudoers file if youre running a stock install Aug 13 05:35:58 * GreySim has it set up for 'sudo su -' Aug 13 05:36:02 if youre doing this stuff ON the 770 as user... you should seriously look into getting a ssh client so you can fix things like this from a real computer Aug 13 05:36:15 ok then, yeah, apt-get is always available for root Aug 13 05:36:19 its what application manager uses Aug 13 05:36:21 and synaptic Aug 13 05:36:22 <_Monkey> synaptic is on maemo.org repository Aug 13 05:36:57 Problem with ssh is, no wifi router at home (bricked my WRT54G), and I haven't been able to get the USB thing working yet. Aug 13 05:37:02 :( Aug 13 05:37:12 you ruined my plans Aug 13 05:37:19 i thought you were toast... i really was gonna flash if you did Aug 13 05:37:30 still might Aug 13 05:37:41 only have a days configuration to lose Aug 13 05:37:44 would it be safe to dist-upgrade from mistral to gregale? or am I asking for trouble? Aug 13 05:37:48 and i need a fresh install to work on my blog :) Aug 13 05:37:49 Wait, what do you mean? I can still flash. Still might have to even. Aug 13 05:37:57 I just haven't got USB networking working. Aug 13 05:38:18 No comma after update. Aug 13 05:38:21 mmlj4: im not to the point of trusting upgrade even within one distribution, let alone a dist-upgrade. best of luck to you. Aug 13 05:38:30 heh Aug 13 05:38:32 * GreySim tries -f install again. Aug 13 05:38:46 GreySim: ok, your system is usable now. but im 90% sure something is still broken and you wont find out until it bites you Aug 13 05:39:13 what's the worst that could happen? i haven't had the pleasure of bricking in a while ;-) Aug 13 05:39:26 Still says /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure is not found, but it configured Tasks the rest of the way. Aug 13 05:39:32 mmlj4: bricking. so far i havent thought of a way to perma-brick a 770 without hardware hacks Aug 13 05:39:42 GreySim: yeah, its gonna say that a lot. ignore it. Aug 13 05:39:44 * GreySim is glad to hear that at least. Aug 13 05:39:52 Heh, okay. Aug 13 05:40:04 oversight on nokia's part with regards to packaging scripts Aug 13 05:40:19 * GreySim thinks the failure in general might've been lack of space, though Tasks is tiny, so dunno. Aug 13 05:40:29 mmlj4: when i had my gp2x i bricked it to the point of requiring a JTAG connection to reflash once :) Aug 13 05:40:39 oh, nice Aug 13 05:40:56 I think that's what my router needs at this point. Aug 13 05:41:01 If it's even savable. Aug 13 05:41:05 i had to BUILD a serial cable Aug 13 05:41:11 out of parts Aug 13 05:41:20 cut two old serial mouse cords to make it :) Aug 13 05:41:24 Nice. Aug 13 05:43:02 * GreySim *might* still reflash. Starting with a clean device after a week of poking and prodding might not be a bad idea. Aug 13 05:43:42 hrm, booting from the memory card, sounds nice: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/ Aug 13 05:44:49 claims to double the speed of the OS Aug 13 05:45:32 Hmm. May have to reflash actually. Aug 13 05:45:44 'apt-get remove tasks' froze the thing. Aug 13 05:47:45 ...to the point where holding down the power button won't restart it. o.o Aug 13 05:49:38 > file gtkmydrawwidget.c: line 202 Aug 13 05:49:38 > (gtk_my_draw_widget_process_motion_or_button): assertion failed: Aug 13 05:49:38 > (pressure >= 0 && pressure <= 1) ) Aug 13 05:49:38 Aug 13 05:49:45 As a quickfix you can edit the file above and print/clamp/rescale the Aug 13 05:49:45 pressure value. Do not just remove the assertion, this will cause more Aug 13 05:49:45 errors later. Aug 13 05:50:04 i don't get his quickfix Aug 13 05:50:52 How do i go about print clamping and rescaling the pressure value? Aug 13 06:03:23 AwaySim[Filing]: let me know if you flash Aug 13 06:15:12 hey all Aug 13 06:17:41 morning people Aug 13 06:26:07 sparr: I will within the next 30-45 minutes probably. Aug 13 06:50:21 sparr: Gonna reflash in the next 10 minutes probably. Aug 13 07:03:11 I haven't reflashed yet, but with USB networking, do you always have to run a command on the server every time you want to connect? Aug 13 07:03:27 (Not that I can even get it to connect manually thus far.) Aug 13 07:06:58 sparr: Downloading the image now. Still around? Aug 13 07:28:40 Will a failed flash brick the device? Aug 13 07:28:45 770, that is. Aug 13 07:30:27 Someone earlier was saying it was fairly unbrickable, but I'm just making sure it's the fact that my laptop USB is messed up that's causing the problem, and that I didn't manage to kill both my laptop and 770 in the same night. Aug 13 07:30:42 Because that leaves me with a 400 MHz tower, and that'll just be sad. Aug 13 07:47:28 Morning, all Aug 13 07:48:16 what's the current situation in using n800 for video calls? That internet call invitation beta trial period seems to have ended. Aug 13 07:48:26 morning Aug 13 07:48:27 <_Monkey> aloha Aug 13 07:53:59 good morning Aug 13 08:19:23 Aloha! Aug 13 08:19:24 <_Monkey> Guten Tag, sbaturzio! Aug 13 08:28:48 I'm just installing the maemo development environment and Xephyr doenst start Aug 13 08:28:52 hehe finally! Aug 13 08:29:43 I'm using the script from the maemo tutorial and running it outside scratchbox Aug 13 08:31:17 apple2, do you have Xephyr installed in the host? or running from scratchbox path? Aug 13 08:32:28 I dont have it in the host Aug 13 08:32:45 I get it from /scratchbox/..... Aug 13 08:32:54 als, did you install the Maemo rootstrap? Aug 13 08:33:01 yes Aug 13 08:33:05 the full one Aug 13 08:33:17 It finds it but Aug 13 08:33:21 So, what error yu get? Aug 13 08:33:23 doesnt show the window Aug 13 08:34:02 no error Aug 13 08:34:11 it does only show how to use it Aug 13 08:34:16 Its syntax Aug 13 08:35:24 How are you running Xephyr? Aug 13 08:35:30 I just installed it in the host Aug 13 08:35:35 and it is ok Aug 13 08:35:37 thanks Aug 13 08:38:52 Its running!! Aug 13 08:39:51 :) Aug 13 09:00:03 Hi Aug 13 09:06:45 Hi keesj Aug 13 09:08:01 morning Aug 13 09:08:02 <_Monkey> aloha Aug 13 09:11:44 arbeiten!!! Aug 13 09:15:19 hello keesj Aug 13 09:20:14 man, what a weather Aug 13 09:21:05 hate it too Aug 13 09:21:15 the weather is awesome :) Aug 13 09:21:24 oh, nm then Aug 13 09:21:28 :)) Aug 13 09:22:01 GreySim: what's wrong w/ installing XTerm, ssh, and sshing in from the xterm? Aug 13 09:22:01 sparr: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure is a very strange oversight, given that everyone internally knows about it and has for a while. you'd think if it was a real oversight and was known, it'd have been fixed. Aug 13 09:22:02 tigert: i need to talk to someone like you about declassifying some portion of ui specifications. mostly basics like "why shouldn't I have 30 menu items in a single menu?" Aug 13 09:22:13 yeah Aug 13 09:22:34 that needs to be discussed within our team in any case soon, now that people are back from vacations Aug 13 09:22:38 i'd just as soon use google docs and spreadsheets to post things Aug 13 09:22:50 yeah Aug 13 09:23:01 it gives me enough control and the ability to share things internally and then let everyone see it once you guys agree Aug 13 09:26:45 Gathaja: yes video call expired, they know, they're trying to come up with a solutio Aug 13 09:26:50 n Aug 13 09:27:12 a solution is another N800 of course :) Aug 13 09:27:22 ++tigert Aug 13 09:27:34 yes, please help our budget, buy an n800 for your friend Aug 13 09:27:36 that's what i did Aug 13 09:27:50 well, ok, i sorta procured instead of purchased, but it's close enough :) Aug 13 09:27:58 :p Aug 13 09:28:42 finally \o/ psemu-drive-cdrmooby_2.8+o-2_armel.deb Aug 13 09:28:50 tigert: ok, so lemme start doc'ing things and see which go where Aug 13 09:29:25 timeless: well. I think it might be better to start with the "permission" part Aug 13 09:29:32 before pushing classified stuff to google docs :) Aug 13 09:29:45 i have ~20 docs of my own to write up Aug 13 09:29:59 oh ok, yea, I dont have anything to say about your own docs Aug 13 09:30:00 but i can write some basic ui guidelines like why 30 menuitems are bad Aug 13 09:30:34 if you feel like doing that - we have to do similar stuff in the future anyway Aug 13 09:30:36 btw, for people following bugs.maemo.org, i've filed two more bugs hoping to give more examples of how to file bugs Aug 13 09:30:45 tigert: i need to wontfix a bug Aug 13 09:30:52 part of it is explaining why the request is bad Aug 13 09:30:58 which means i need a doc anyway Aug 13 09:31:19 woohoo Aug 13 09:31:24 * timeless gets approval to send a tshirt Aug 13 09:32:00 Gathaja: apparenltly its possible to build telepathy-gabble, farsight,empathy and mission control on windows Aug 13 09:32:53 hrm, will printing this 1 page google email require 100mb of printer data like the last one did? Aug 13 09:36:41 thanks timeless & robtaylor Aug 13 09:39:15 hrm, i need to find someone's title Aug 13 10:11:37 morning Aug 13 10:11:37 <_Monkey> aloha Aug 13 10:12:06 hi lardman :) Aug 13 10:12:12 hi pupnik_ Aug 13 10:13:15 onion: ping Aug 13 10:16:17 onion: Just wanted to check that you're using the OSM data for the mapping (I assume you are), I'm interested in looking at how to do routing (on your ToDo) Aug 13 10:16:38 bbl Aug 13 11:04:36 morning Aug 13 11:04:37 <_Monkey> aloha Aug 13 11:06:40 morning! Aug 13 11:06:41 <_Monkey> aloha Aug 13 11:06:55 Anyone know how to turn off Maemo's screen via dbus? Aug 13 11:08:21 trevarthan: i think osmeone asked that in maemo-devel some time ago .. Aug 13 11:19:12 hej, can anyone tell me, if there is some kind of hyperterminal software for n800? i've tried minicom, but i haven't found any suitable binaries.. Aug 13 11:30:31 YTY what is your favorite terminal program for linux? Aug 13 11:30:53 preferably curses-based Aug 13 11:31:31 and do you need exotic protocols (3270 etc)? Aug 13 11:37:07 x3270 compiles to a curses interface too (c3270), IIRC Aug 13 11:38:15 pupnik_: actually i'm a newbie (aka idiot) when it comes to linux, so i've so far basic x terminal :) and i won't be needing any special protocols Aug 13 11:40:20 YTY: are you now talking about normal xterm..? Aug 13 11:40:29 yep Aug 13 11:40:39 so, get osso-xterm Aug 13 11:41:07 minicom is meant to be used for connections using serial cable.. Aug 13 11:41:18 sorry, i meant that i already have osso-xterm, but i cannot use minicom through it Aug 13 11:41:41 what kind of system to you want to connect-to? Aug 13 11:41:59 YTY: and how..? Aug 13 11:42:20 pupnik_: it is an accelerometer, which is bluetooth-connected Aug 13 11:42:31 oh Aug 13 11:42:38 nice Aug 13 11:43:16 i haven't got any experience with linux, so iä Aug 13 11:43:29 yes, iä Aug 13 11:43:36 m bit confused at the moment Aug 13 11:44:26 and you connect to the accelerometer with what, in windows? Aug 13 11:44:35 hyperterm? Aug 13 11:44:38 yep Aug 13 11:45:07 and i have made a little software that uses msdn-libs :) Aug 13 11:46:00 i think you're on the right track with the minicom idea Aug 13 11:46:15 http://www.faqs.org/docs/Linux-HOWTO/Serial-Programming-HOWTO.html Aug 13 11:46:27 or skip the minicom and write a simple GUI app :) Aug 13 11:46:37 the problem seems to be that the minicom binaries are too new for my n800 Aug 13 11:46:54 but then i would have to get linux on my computer :) Aug 13 11:47:22 http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/702 Aug 13 11:48:04 my serial line experience under *nix is about 15 years old so i can't help much Aug 13 11:48:28 pupnik_: well, it probably haven't changed during that time :) Aug 13 11:48:46 I've written a small serial app, it's not very complicated Aug 13 11:48:49 so when you make a bluetooth connection - what does it bind to under /dev? Aug 13 11:48:57 cua? Aug 13 11:49:04 I think those are /dev/rfcomm, maybe? Aug 13 11:49:23 after the bt device has been paired normally Aug 13 11:49:28 Just guessing, though.. Aug 13 11:57:40 YTY, you can use this one: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ it includes an updated SDK Aug 13 12:00:09 i remember binding my terminal to the serial device somehow Aug 13 12:00:15 and not using any 'terminal program' Aug 13 12:00:21 * k8 is back (gone 07:55:29) Aug 13 12:00:25 jaffa: thanks for the mplayer tip Aug 13 12:00:38 hi konttori Aug 13 12:00:49 did you see the trick i discovered to eliminate color banding in mplayer? Aug 13 12:01:07 No, I haven't tried mplayer yet. Aug 13 12:01:42 * pupnik_ is amazed :) Aug 13 12:17:23 hey, who made mplayer so much faster than previous version? Aug 13 12:17:35 It seems roughly 30% faster Aug 13 12:19:29 ssvb Aug 13 12:20:15 it's possibly the most optimized app for the tablets Aug 13 12:20:21 third party that is Aug 13 12:23:36 does any one have minicom_2.1-9_armel.deb because it might work on n800? Aug 13 12:25:20 http://www.grahamdavies.net/bora_debs/ <- there seems to be one Aug 13 12:26:35 zuh: thanks, somehow i couldn't find it, and the link that i had was dead Aug 13 12:33:24 I just pasted the file name to google... :P Aug 13 12:36:28 hh Aug 13 12:40:51 siarhei is a hero: http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg07515.html Aug 13 12:42:39 pupnik: yeah, we do expect to have a 770 build pushed this week :) Aug 13 12:43:02 build of microb? Aug 13 12:43:14 yeah Aug 13 12:43:27 nice :) is ssvb working on it? Aug 13 12:43:34 ssvb? Aug 13 12:43:35 <_Monkey> ssvb is god Aug 13 12:43:39 zuh: now i found it also, i just had some search filters on :D Aug 13 12:43:47 never met creature? Aug 13 12:44:03 oh i thought your 'yeah we' was in response to my last post Aug 13 12:44:12 i expect to have a blog announcement re 770 before an announcement of "meet the team" Aug 13 12:44:42 very nice! Aug 13 12:44:59 from what i read it is much more modern than the opera on the 770 Aug 13 12:45:14 kinda silly, but yes Aug 13 12:45:21 even blog/1 should make that clear Aug 13 12:46:03 well this is the most exciting news for 770 Aug 13 12:46:44 and it can also be the basis for future tablets Aug 13 12:46:48 * pupnik_ tips hat Aug 13 12:50:37 Sorry to be asking Really silly question, but I somehow messed up mu osso configuration for ukmp and I can't get it working anymore. Aug 13 12:50:58 I have this in the MediaCenter executable: osso_c = osso.Context("MediaCenter", "1.0", False) Aug 13 12:51:22 And in desktop file, I have: Exec=/usr/bin/MediaCenter Aug 13 12:51:22 X-Osso-Service=MediaCenter Aug 13 12:51:23 X-Osso-Type=application/x-executable Aug 13 12:51:23 Icon=ukmp Aug 13 12:51:23 Type=Application Aug 13 12:51:23 StartupWMClass=MediaCenter Aug 13 12:51:37 And service is: [D-BUS Service] Aug 13 12:51:37 Name=com.nokia.MediaCenter Aug 13 12:51:37 Exec=/usr/bin/MediaCenter Aug 13 12:52:16 When I try to open it up, I get: ossoexception:cannot initialize context Aug 13 12:52:38 It's probably something really simple, I just haven't figured it out. Aug 13 12:52:47 (and someone else probably can see it in a sec) Aug 13 12:53:49 is there a file i can compare that to on my system? Aug 13 12:54:05 what kind of file? Aug 13 12:54:22 what desktop file is that? ukmp.desktop? Aug 13 12:54:29 MediaCenter.desktop Aug 13 12:54:49 and MediaCenter.service Aug 13 12:56:49 ok nm i don't have that Aug 13 12:57:02 A2DP jabra deal on shnoop.com Aug 13 12:57:27 all right. I dropped the osso code completely. Easier that way Aug 13 12:57:31 has anyone used that Jabra? I wonder how long the actual battery life is.. Aug 13 12:57:50 oh damn, now I'm missing the application icon. Aug 13 12:57:52 oh well Aug 13 13:00:07 konttori_: have you tried to resolve the problem with thememaker and latest IT OS release? Aug 13 13:00:17 I have Aug 13 13:00:22 But no results Aug 13 13:00:36 I wasn't able to find any java lib that would produce a tar that the n800 would open Aug 13 13:01:02 oh shoot Aug 13 13:01:02 just about everythin opened just fine on n770 or on my osx Aug 13 13:01:12 Seems like the tar in n800 is overly sensitive Aug 13 13:02:37 i wonder how many bytes of flash they saved by making busybox-tar that crippled Aug 13 13:03:26 Probably at least 10 bytes Aug 13 13:04:23 there's a binutils package - that might have tar Aug 13 13:04:46 yeah, but the tar that is causing problems is the one used in dpkg. Aug 13 13:04:57 yes, i'm pretty sure that running the standard GNU tar on N800 would work Aug 13 13:05:21 perhaps you should file a bug to get it fixed in the next release? Aug 13 13:06:55 true Aug 13 13:07:10 I'll do that once I get the osso thing functioning again Aug 13 13:24:20 hm Aug 13 13:24:39 when I try to update my repo list, it says unable to update, but the list is updated Aug 13 13:24:44 and when i try to update any individual app Aug 13 13:24:50 it says "unable to update" and the item disappears Aug 13 13:24:54 as if it actually did update Aug 13 13:24:56 any ideas? Aug 13 13:28:22 * pupnik runs the first playstation game on a 770 in the history of the world :P Aug 13 13:38:32 phew. FInally got the app configured correctly. Aug 13 13:41:44 sweet I also have a seek bar in ukmp. also, Jaffa: I got the mplayer screengrabs working. Aug 13 13:42:00 Still need to tune the screengrabs a bit, but it's looking good so far. Aug 13 13:46:01 hola Aug 13 13:46:01 <_Monkey> niihau, Blacksitox Aug 13 13:46:11 heya _Monkey Aug 13 13:46:11 <_Monkey> i guess i am the best programmer in the whole freenode IRC right now Aug 13 13:46:31 _monkey literal heya _monkey Aug 13 13:46:32 <_Monkey> timeless: i'm not following you... Aug 13 13:46:44 _monkey literal _monkey Aug 13 13:46:45 <_Monkey> timeless: _monkey =is= the best programmer in the whole freenode IRC right now Aug 13 13:47:09 _monkey: you are also an annoying bot Aug 13 13:47:09 <_Monkey> okay, timeless. Aug 13 13:47:19 _monkey _monkey =~ s/or/|/ Aug 13 13:47:20 <_Monkey> OK, timeless Aug 13 13:47:27 _monkey: _monkey? Aug 13 13:47:28 <_Monkey> i am an annoying bot Aug 13 13:47:30 _monkey: _monkey? Aug 13 13:47:30 <_Monkey> well, i am the best programmer in the whole freenode IRC right now Aug 13 13:47:35 good bot Aug 13 13:47:43 _monkey: good bot Aug 13 13:47:43 <_Monkey> :) Aug 13 13:48:02 _monkey: have a crusty gnat infested bot snack Aug 13 13:48:03 <_Monkey> :) Aug 13 13:48:23 sorry, it's a bot. kick it while it's around? Aug 13 13:58:39 heh timeless Aug 13 13:59:12 oh, btw, that's a demo of how to (ab)use infobots Aug 13 13:59:27 not a complete demo of all their functionality, but at least a couple of pieces Aug 13 13:59:49 so, now you know how to get it to give multiple responses Aug 13 14:00:04 and if you were paying attn, you know how to find out the whole data field Aug 13 14:14:58 good morning all Aug 13 14:15:49 completely idiotic question - what is the best way to tell tablet's IP address? Aug 13 14:15:58 is there ifconfig for n800? Aug 13 14:16:35 /sbin/ifconfig is what i do Aug 13 14:16:42 let's see Aug 13 14:17:13 anyone use ushare? Aug 13 14:17:23 or have any experience with it? Aug 13 14:18:07 Shurik_: if you're looking from a user's perspective, there's an app (Connection Manager, iirc) that shows you the IP Aug 13 14:18:29 oh Aug 13 14:18:35 that might be a way for me to go as well Aug 13 14:18:37 in the menu, Internet connection -> IP address Aug 13 14:25:30 timeless: i agree, re dpkg-preconfigure. im not sure why its missing Aug 13 14:31:25 Desensitize: I used ushare Aug 13 14:32:32 dev: do u know exactly how u can stream the content? Aug 13 14:33:35 dev: i get as far as the web interface, but i cant see a way to actualy stream? Aug 13 14:34:27 Desensitize: you need a UPnP client, as ushare is "only" a UPnP server Aug 13 14:35:56 Desensitize: clients are on the N770/N800 are the filemanager/mediaplayer, canola,... Aug 13 14:36:13 one are too much Aug 13 14:36:54 Desensitize: Nokias Media Streamer not to be left out Aug 13 14:37:40 dev, thankyou Aug 13 14:37:51 you're welcome Aug 13 14:38:38 n800 has upnp backend for gnomevfs, so all apps using gnomevfs "properly" can handle content from upnp automatically Aug 13 14:40:08 lardman|lab: some questions about dsp, if you have time at some point Aug 13 14:48:16 is it a good idea to install this? OS 2007 Hacker Edition for Nokia 770 Aug 13 14:49:17 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=68124&postcount=32 :D :D :D Aug 13 14:49:37 pupnik, beautiful! Aug 13 14:49:50 heh Aug 13 14:49:57 zaf: not especially. its nice because of features, but less supported Aug 13 14:50:34 sparr, what if i want to run the mozilla-based browser on the 770? Aug 13 14:50:50 minimo will run on the 770. if you want mozilla though, feel free to try :) Aug 13 14:52:12 is minimo going to do ajax? Aug 13 14:52:26 probably Aug 13 14:52:39 wait about a week zaf - nice surprise coming Aug 13 14:52:41 hmm, i'll try that first then, hhe Aug 13 14:52:52 pupnik, PS1 u mean? Aug 13 14:53:00 no new browser Aug 13 14:53:06 ah, cool Aug 13 14:53:07 :) Aug 13 14:53:20 tell me now and i promise to act surprised next week Aug 13 14:53:27 heh Aug 13 14:55:05 14:33 < timeless> pupnik: yeah, we do expect to have a 770 build pushed this week :) Aug 13 14:55:32 we're writing some web-based apps for customers, and hoping to tweak them to run well on the tablets Aug 13 15:06:56 zaf: whats wrong with opera? Aug 13 15:07:30 doesn't seem to do ajax Aug 13 15:07:38 gmail works Aug 13 15:08:13 and google reader too Aug 13 15:08:19 so should run ajax Aug 13 15:08:23 well, it doesn't like zimbra's ajax for one ;) Aug 13 15:08:41 google's is very light Aug 13 15:08:45 hello :) Aug 13 15:09:09 couple of questions ... Aug 13 15:09:29 mostly i just want to compare how the different browsers work for now Aug 13 15:09:38 if you think gmail is light ajax... youve got problems Aug 13 15:09:49 :-D Aug 13 15:10:05 are there any "sky at night" star dome apps that have been ported to the nokia 770/800 ? if not, is there a generic guide of how to start hildon-ising an app ? Aug 13 15:13:19 check out maemostars Aug 13 15:13:39 ooh :D Aug 13 15:14:34 * Nermal continues to wait for his 770 to arrive Aug 13 15:15:23 people, stop buyin 770s :) Aug 13 15:15:57 yeah, no kidding. 770s suck. no sdhc. Aug 13 15:16:13 * trevarthan runs away Aug 13 15:16:35 if 770 had a IrD, I'd buy it to be remote control/x10 :) Aug 13 15:16:37 doesn't matter 2gig is more than enougjt for the most of users :) Aug 13 15:16:51 enough Aug 13 15:16:52 <_Monkey> enough is enough Aug 13 15:17:12 but even 330 on n800 is not enough Aug 13 15:17:20 330 Mhz Aug 13 15:17:42 someone needs to put _Monkey into speak when you're spoken to mode. Aug 13 15:17:59 770's are so cheap Aug 13 15:18:14 true Aug 13 15:18:19 woo software scaling to 570x410 takes pcsx down to about 40 fpm Aug 13 15:18:23 i was tempted to buy one just to display news on the fridge door Aug 13 15:18:39 anyone here tried flashing n800 firmware from ubuntu gutsy? Aug 13 15:18:47 "Flashing bootloader... Sending request 0x50 failed!" Aug 13 15:18:53 you don't like passive mode? Aug 13 15:19:29 unless it doesnt brake :) I've already have third one from expansys after two with stripes on the screen after about a week Aug 13 15:20:28 a third 770? Aug 13 15:20:34 yes Aug 13 15:20:36 :( Aug 13 15:20:55 http://akson.sgh.waw.pl/~gs20787/n770/ <-- this what happened with the last two Aug 13 15:20:58 get one n800 :) Aug 13 15:21:18 after less than week each Aug 13 15:21:27 ouch Aug 13 15:22:02 soolek, don't put it in your back pocket anymore Aug 13 15:23:17 I never do. Each time it freezed and stopped responding. After removing the battery and putting it back the screen got broken. Aug 13 15:23:27 pupnik: That is fpm, I was thinking 70fps - and I though that sounded pretty bloody impressive! Aug 13 15:23:39 hehehe Aug 13 15:23:50 :D Aug 13 15:24:01 what kind of speed was it achieving on the Zaurus? Aug 13 15:24:11 * lardman can't remember, never used pdaXrom Aug 13 15:25:44 i doubt the stock pcsx would be playable on zaurus either Aug 13 15:26:15 what is "OMAP McSPI"? taking up a ton of CPU on my n800. Aug 13 15:26:20 OMAP McSPI? Aug 13 15:26:26 good for nothing monkey Aug 13 15:26:55 heh Aug 13 15:27:00 multi-channel serial port interface? Aug 13 15:28:28 multichannel serial peripheral interface (bus) Aug 13 15:28:42 Is it attached to the screen or something? Aug 13 15:28:43 at least this shows you don't need more than 64MB 1942 user R 15M 1764 89.9 24.9 pcsx Aug 13 15:29:31 Isn't everything attached to it? Aug 13 15:29:37 har har Aug 13 15:30:55 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8411 should be named on there I imagine Aug 13 15:31:04 in the schematic that is Aug 13 16:04:39 is there a way to make the backlight always stay on when plugged into power? Aug 13 16:04:59 zaf, yes Aug 13 16:05:17 its on the ITT forums some where, I found it but I don't remember what the URL is, let me check history Aug 13 16:05:24 thx Aug 13 16:05:33 acmonitor? Aug 13 16:05:34 <_Monkey> i think acmonitor is N800 version at http://planetmath.cc.vt.edu/~derf/local/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/acmonitor_0.1_armel.deb and N770 version at http://pupnik.de/acmonitor.html Aug 13 16:05:58 404 for 770 link Aug 13 16:06:56 oops pupnik.de/800powr.html Aug 13 16:07:39 pupnik, thanks Aug 13 16:26:48 time to flash! Aug 13 16:26:52 hrm, "RSS feed reader" no longer loads Aug 13 16:28:55 flashy flashy Aug 13 16:37:20 lardman|gone: damn, you're gone again.. :) Aug 13 16:41:08 awwwwww SCOX -72% :) Aug 13 16:43:06 <`0660> good time to start buying it now that it's pretty low :p Aug 13 16:43:26 <||cw> i don't think it's gonna ever get better Aug 13 16:44:28 <`0660> why do you think so? they have great products! :) Aug 13 16:58:02 hrm, anyone have instructions on how to flash in linu? I get "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" Aug 13 16:58:15 that's the correct message Aug 13 16:58:33 then you turn the nokia on holding down the home key (iirc) Aug 13 16:58:35 looooool Aug 13 16:58:40 ah, thx Aug 13 17:02:39 anybody want to be the second person to run a Playstation game on the tablet? http://pupnik.de/pcsx.html Aug 13 17:18:20 New Kagu Released thanks to disq's hard work today: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68157 Aug 13 17:19:16 what's AVRCP? Aug 13 17:19:55 http://www.bluetooth.com/Bluetooth/Learn/Glossary/ Aug 13 17:19:56 4th one down Aug 13 17:20:10 pretty neat Aug 13 17:20:35 kewl Aug 13 17:24:41 http://sparrsstuff.com/ssh_and_root Aug 13 17:25:53 made a comment explaining that: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68160&posted=1#post68160 Aug 13 17:27:57 gonna populate my site with space saving tips Aug 13 17:28:34 is it possible to install bash? if i try to do this apt wants to remove quite all the packages Aug 13 17:29:00 hey all Aug 13 17:29:08 who was talking about getting python running properly in SB Aug 13 17:29:11 I think I've done it Aug 13 17:29:12 ;) Aug 13 17:29:37 bedboi: the problem is that bash depends on debianutils and coreutils, which conflict with busybox, and pretty much everything depends on busybox. Aug 13 17:29:45 well, managed to get gstreamer working anyway Aug 13 17:30:25 nokia screwed up when they didnt make busybox Provides debianutils and coreutils Aug 13 17:31:06 *A* solution would be to equivs-ify a package that Provides debianutils and coreutils and can live alongside busybox. worth a try. dont blame me if you brick though Aug 13 17:32:34 nice to have a real debianisti on-board sparr Aug 13 17:32:49 im an amateur with a sledgehammer :) Aug 13 17:32:57 hence my theme solution Aug 13 17:32:57 Added a clarification describing how to access the new SongPositionView: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=68162&posted=1#post68162 Aug 13 17:34:08 sledgehammer rocks Aug 13 17:34:10 Grrrrrrrr Aug 13 17:34:23 or was it Sledge Hammer? Aug 13 17:34:23 gstreamer just won't debug Aug 13 17:36:48 anyone know much about python and gstreamer on maemo platform Aug 13 17:36:51 http://pastebin.ca/655789 Aug 13 17:36:57 I'm working on that, but it's not working Aug 13 17:37:17 is it cos it's oggs you think? Aug 13 17:37:51 gstreamer? we had problems with it in kagu and switched to osso-media-server Aug 13 17:38:33 i think it was about EOS, it wouldn't report end of song correctly Aug 13 17:41:24 disq how good is osso-media-server? Aug 13 17:41:32 i want to play several samples at once Aug 13 17:41:38 in fact you can see our gstplayer code from https://www.guardiani.us/projects/kagu/browser/trunk/src/kagu/gstplayer.py?rev=255 Aug 13 17:41:52 osso-media-server can play just one song Aug 13 17:41:56 ok Aug 13 17:42:05 i need to mix several samples together Aug 13 17:42:34 you send it the filename via dbus, it starts playing, and emits signals about the playback state and end of song Aug 13 17:42:40 cool Aug 13 17:42:42 sounds useful Aug 13 17:42:46 unfortunately not for me Aug 13 17:42:50 yeah Aug 13 17:44:52 * mgedmin hates osso-media-server with a passion Aug 13 17:45:05 well, I assume I hate it, I don't actually know which bit of the infrastructure is at fault Aug 13 17:45:12 any specific reasons? Aug 13 17:45:16 anyone with a stock 770? i need the precise file size of /home/user/MyDocs/.videos/Discovery.avi Aug 13 17:45:18 heheh Aug 13 17:45:30 mgedmin: it will also pause playing if you get a voip call Aug 13 17:45:47 cool Aug 13 17:46:09 disq: lagging (press pause, it still plays for a second or so) and confusion when multiple frontends try to use it at the same time Aug 13 17:46:11 sparr: technically busybox isn't (c) nokia Aug 13 17:46:29 erm i meant to say scratchbox Aug 13 17:46:32 hehe Aug 13 17:46:33 (pause a song in canola, click on an audio link in a browser, watch the resulting confusion) Aug 13 17:46:35 boy, i'm confused, i should go home Aug 13 17:46:40 mgedmin: ah. yeah. Aug 13 17:47:35 mgedmin: i have the same feeling.. =P Aug 13 17:47:48 sometimes when you have a song paused and want to play a different one (and click on a mp3 in file manager) Aug 13 17:47:53 does canola use libplayback? Aug 13 17:48:05 it still plays a fraction of a second of the old song before starting the new one Aug 13 17:48:17 looks like it starts playing before it starts feeding new audio data into some buffer Aug 13 17:48:25 mgedmin: oms sucks.. =( Aug 13 17:48:50 just those little things that give a feeling of unfinishness Aug 13 17:49:08 I remember when I first noticed that all volume mixers in linux use the same data and show my changes in realtime Aug 13 17:49:10 timeless: i suppose it does Aug 13 17:49:37 I could have aumix in a terminal, a gnome volume mixer in a window, and whenever I changed one of those, the rest updated the display immediatelly Aug 13 17:50:36 i hate how pymaemo doesn't include some bindings for the 770 Aug 13 17:50:54 they didn't include the libconic0 binding. but there's a libconic0 package available for installation (i compiled it and put it up) Aug 13 17:51:28 disq, we will include in the next release Aug 13 17:53:20 luck^: please include all bindings you have for the n800 in the 770 release. Aug 13 17:53:56 also create libmokoui2 bindings :P Aug 13 17:54:12 disq, the only difference was the absence of libconic :) Aug 13 17:54:17 ...and a pony Aug 13 17:54:26 two ponies! Aug 13 17:54:52 luck^: that wouldn't break anything, would it? absence of the lib? Aug 13 17:55:04 dammit, I want a HORSE! Screw that pony stuff! Aug 13 17:55:20 sorry. I'll be good now. Aug 13 17:55:23 trevarthan: do it in eric cartman voice Aug 13 17:55:33 * timeless ponders Aug 13 17:55:33 disq, when we did the last release, libconic was available only on N800 Aug 13 17:55:34 You killed my pony! Aug 13 17:55:41 You bastard! Aug 13 17:55:50 :) Aug 13 17:56:02 should my script treat the lack of .svn as a hint to mark an item as "unpublished"? :) Aug 13 17:56:09 sparr: I should have this movie on a memory card w8 Aug 13 17:56:29 luck^: i know. it was only available on the n800 until the day I compiled libconic0 and put it up in maemo garage. so, other people can do the same with other missing (and compilable) libs Aug 13 17:56:36 soolek: do you have the 5 stock images too? Aug 13 17:57:19 there's a chance for that as it's my third nokia which I received recentely (previous two have broken) Aug 13 17:57:25 gimme a minute Aug 13 17:57:36 :-) Aug 13 17:58:02 disq, right.. and it will be available in the next release, together with other bindings and bugfixes Aug 13 17:58:05 gotta test the new kagu in 770 but i'm too lazy to pull up the second battery from my camera bag Aug 13 17:58:12 luck^: thanks for the info Aug 13 17:59:29 timeless: oh, you read maemo-developers at all? Aug 13 17:59:31 disq, I'm doing some cleanup and reorganization in pymaemo webpage.. it will have some more information about roadmap Aug 13 17:59:43 sp3000: heh, no Aug 13 17:59:51 timeless: someone was complaining about your change summary, http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/25976 ;) Aug 13 17:59:52 but i've actively considered not reading it :) Aug 13 18:00:09 sparr: -rwxr-xr-x 1 user root 2717866 Jun 6 2006 Discovery.avi Aug 13 18:00:20 and the pictures right? Aug 13 18:00:32 yes Aug 13 18:00:33 thanks Aug 13 18:00:34 * timeless reads Aug 13 18:00:42 mgedmin, disq: canola does not use libplayback... Aug 13 18:01:24 same level of thought? Aug 13 18:01:25 * timeless chuckles Aug 13 18:01:26 do you think players that use ossomediaserver need to implement libplayback? OMS already implements it Aug 13 18:01:36 did anyone read the change logs i sourced? Aug 13 18:01:40 they were linked Aug 13 18:01:48 (and they're typical) Aug 13 18:02:06 hey, is there a 770 xmms client someone's already compiled? Aug 13 18:02:17 * vmarks dives into middle of what looks like a media related conversation Aug 13 18:03:05 sparr I got them :-) Aug 13 18:03:06 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 96393 Jun 14 2006 Otter.jpg Aug 13 18:03:06 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 128609 Jun 14 2006 Pelicans.jpg Aug 13 18:03:06 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 89909 Jun 14 2006 Rams.jpg Aug 13 18:03:06 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 90550 Jun 14 2006 Sharks.jpg Aug 13 18:03:06 -rw-r--r-- 1 user users 88336 Jun 14 2006 Snowmonkey.jpg Aug 13 18:03:09 vmarks: xmms* doesn't use gstreamer so afaik it'll be hard to just compile and run Aug 13 18:03:11 thanks a bunch Aug 13 18:04:02 np Aug 13 18:04:57 sp3000: arg Aug 13 18:05:02 how many threads do i have to read? Aug 13 18:05:06 this one looks worth reading Aug 13 18:05:09 * timeless grumbles Aug 13 18:05:33 * timeless also disagrees w/ qim Aug 13 18:05:44 no one else here would put the same level of thought into notes as i did Aug 13 18:05:54 if i wasn't here, browser wouldn't have had anything like what it got Aug 13 18:06:13 and i disagree that conic shouldn't have good changelogs Aug 13 18:06:20 however, i don't expect it to have them Aug 13 18:06:26 conic? somebody said conic? Aug 13 18:06:30 ah ok false alarm Aug 13 18:06:31 because i know its approximate origin Aug 13 18:06:35 disq: eh? Aug 13 18:06:42 i'm reading http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/25976 Aug 13 18:06:53 where microb and libconic are compared in some strange way Aug 13 18:06:53 seems like i missed the bit about conic Aug 13 18:07:22 ah, ok, i didn't. the GError Aug 13 18:07:33 * timeless casts a magical whois spell on disq Aug 13 18:07:40 disq: thank you. unfortunately, I need xmms2 client on 770. Aug 13 18:08:02 soolek: thanks! http://sparrsstuff.com/pre-installed_media Aug 13 18:08:14 disq: what's your relation to conic? Aug 13 18:08:14 disq: I need some more reading about libplayback in order to really give an opinion about it hehe... Aug 13 18:08:27 disq: but AFAIK, you're right... Aug 13 18:08:59 sp3000: btw, it should be noted that the changelog in question wasn't written in html Aug 13 18:09:09 in case people are curious Aug 13 18:09:09 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/index.txt Aug 13 18:09:12 is what i actually wrote Aug 13 18:09:15 disq: if OMS can only play _one_ media at a given time, and all the players use it, it doesnt make too much sense to implement libplayback on all players Aug 13 18:09:31 MoRpHeUz: there's a message marc-andre posted in maemo-dev, some info there. but of course probably have access to internal documents :P Aug 13 18:09:48 disq: I read that message also hehe Aug 13 18:09:59 btw, what sort of changelog do people expect for a package from upstream Aug 13 18:10:05 e.g. if i am really stupid Aug 13 18:10:13 and i choose to package kernel 2.14.0 Aug 13 18:10:20 disq: but it looks like that until now it's not that usefull (libplayback)....maybe some future feature ? Aug 13 18:10:25 and then i provide an updated package kernel 2.16.22 Aug 13 18:10:28 timeless: no relation. it's just another lib i use for my projects :) Aug 13 18:10:32 what kind of changelog do people expect? Aug 13 18:10:53 I just configured the arm target in scratchbox and when I do ./configure it says "if u meant to crosscompile use --host" Aug 13 18:10:53 assume that i've really packaged 2.14.0-timeless_is_stupid-1 Aug 13 18:11:05 and 2.16.22-timeless_is_insane-1 Aug 13 18:11:12 with no versions between Aug 13 18:11:58 <`0660> "upgraded to latest upstream"? Aug 13 18:12:02 apple2: what are you building Aug 13 18:12:13 timeless: your changelog is fine for me, btw. and it's a good improvement (over the less or un-documented changes going on since the beginning of the initiative) Aug 13 18:12:45 Im building maemopad Aug 13 18:12:48 disq: the builds that trickled in between weren't really intended to be pulled they were supposed to be covered by my changelog Aug 13 18:13:37 disq: do you agree w/ `0660? Aug 13 18:14:00 i'm wondering because generally speaking, we're going to grab latest versions of gecko as we go Aug 13 18:14:05 let me see what he wrote first :) Aug 13 18:14:06 and while i'm willing to link to burningedge Aug 13 18:14:19 i'm not willing to repeat his work or go into more detail Aug 13 18:14:30 hi Aug 13 18:14:38 (i'd be willing to include burningedge and bonsai links) Aug 13 18:14:43 <`0660> and you shouldn't Aug 13 18:14:51 recursive changelogs sound ok Aug 13 18:14:59 <`0660> links are plenty Aug 13 18:15:05 ok Aug 13 18:15:24 so, out of curiosity, did anyone actually read the actual browser changelogs? :) Aug 13 18:15:30 (they're as bad as any others from nokia) Aug 13 18:15:34 <`0660> i did Aug 13 18:15:41 i browsed them through quickly Aug 13 18:15:50 interesting Aug 13 18:16:07 did you get to them from the blog or using apt or something else (specify)? Aug 13 18:16:14 timeless, understand that we normally get zilch or near-zilch from nokia Aug 13 18:16:24 disq: i'm well aware Aug 13 18:16:27 i'm hoping to change things Aug 13 18:16:38 <`0660> from irc :) Aug 13 18:16:40 i read them from the link in the maemo-dev thread, i think Aug 13 18:17:03 from me you should hopefully get high quality or rants Aug 13 18:17:17 <`0660> i wish application manager had an option to check the changelog Aug 13 18:17:21 but hopefully i'll earn enough respect for people Aug 13 18:17:28 i poked the dev about that already :) Aug 13 18:17:41 he wondered if it was sufficient to install the apt-paranoid thing Aug 13 18:17:42 `0660: me too. and an option that actually shows you which repo that update is/will coming from Aug 13 18:17:53 but neither of us got around to checking to see if it worked Aug 13 18:18:10 * timeless frowns Aug 13 18:18:15 what was the name of that package? Aug 13 18:18:25 it was funny, one guy in the elevator knew it Aug 13 18:18:50 i hope i can get a repository on the maemo garage Aug 13 18:18:52 apt-listchanges? Aug 13 18:19:32 could someone here try building and installing apt-listchanges? Aug 13 18:20:26 building? Aug 13 18:20:29 its non-binary Aug 13 18:20:41 ok, installing then? Aug 13 18:20:51 and its not going to install. it Depends on debianutils, which brings up the whole busybox-vs-the-world issue Aug 13 18:20:59 oh Aug 13 18:21:01 wonderful Aug 13 18:21:06 s/building/porting/ Aug 13 18:22:04 erm Aug 13 18:22:07 it requires python Aug 13 18:22:43 <`0660> does it do anything more complicated than an http request? :) Aug 13 18:23:09 i'm not sure it does even that much Aug 13 18:23:10 python we have Aug 13 18:23:15 `0660: probably, it uses python-apt Aug 13 18:23:15 changelogs should be included in the .deb Aug 13 18:23:22 some of us don't use or like pythong Aug 13 18:23:39 well then, fooey on you :-p Aug 13 18:23:56 anyway, .debs themselves should have the changelogs inside Aug 13 18:23:56 want a sadder story? deborphan is a binary. it should be a damn script, but someone wrote it in a compiled language. Aug 13 18:24:13 by the time the installer installs things, the files are local Aug 13 18:24:24 it's basically looking at the package, finding the version you used to have Aug 13 18:24:37 and listing the portion of changelog that's relevant Aug 13 18:24:39 debs have the changelogs in them... but docpurge eats them :) Aug 13 18:24:48 err Aug 13 18:24:56 i dont even know if apt-listchanges will work with docpurge eating our changelogs Aug 13 18:24:59 yeah, IT-OS uses docpurge doesn't it Aug 13 18:25:18 i dont really have a problem with that. look at changelogs elsewhere Aug 13 18:25:20 if it doesn't, that's a bug in one of the two Aug 13 18:25:25 imo in apt-listchanges Aug 13 18:25:46 thanks for the reminder though, i need to write my localepurge howto :) Aug 13 18:25:51 i disagree re: bug Aug 13 18:26:02 if the file was there Aug 13 18:26:04 its a "bug" in docpurge, in that docpurge is defined as breaking packages Aug 13 18:26:06 and there's a sequence Aug 13 18:26:16 apt-listpurge cannot be blamed for not working with broken package installations Aug 13 18:26:17 then listchanges should make sure it's run before docpurge Aug 13 18:26:31 docpurge is run during an install Aug 13 18:26:36 listchanges runs whenever, no? Aug 13 18:26:47 listchanges can run as part of the install process Aug 13 18:26:51 that's the only flavor i care about Aug 13 18:27:00 oh, my bad Aug 13 18:27:03 gotcha Aug 13 18:27:05 it's the flavor that works as part of apt-get install/distupgrade Aug 13 18:27:12 iow application manager Aug 13 18:27:13 ok then, yeah, it could (and would) precede docpurge Aug 13 18:27:36 anyway, if i made a version of apt-listchanges that lied about its depends Aug 13 18:27:39 could you try it? Aug 13 18:27:46 * timeless really doesn't want to deal w/ pythong Aug 13 18:27:56 (no, i have no idea why i typo python) Aug 13 18:28:01 sure, but its not going to work Aug 13 18:28:06 i dont have python either Aug 13 18:28:07 timeless: phong shading? Aug 13 18:28:15 i was using "we have" in the community sense Aug 13 18:28:15 heh Aug 13 18:28:40 generally speaking i object to or ignore royal we Aug 13 18:29:00 do we have mad on maemo? Aug 13 18:29:03 i simply don't know enough kings/queens to honor instances Aug 13 18:29:17 lol Aug 13 18:29:39 there are exceptions, although, to be honest, i ignore them too Aug 13 18:29:42 e.g. ari Aug 13 18:29:50 well maybe packages could just run their own listchanges scripts and display the changes (well, release notes, so maybe use the NEWS files?) in a dialog using maemo-confirm-text? Aug 13 18:29:53 if he says we, well, it's ok, he is royalty in my domain Aug 13 18:30:03 (i'll still question him) Aug 13 18:30:03 ..during installation Aug 13 18:30:19 disq: there's a log viewer in application manager Aug 13 18:30:28 according to the application manager maintainer Aug 13 18:30:35 timeless: which views apt error logs currently :) Aug 13 18:30:35 if listchanges spits its output out correctly Aug 13 18:30:38 then it should end up there Aug 13 18:30:41 disq: yes Aug 13 18:30:51 but he and i agreed that it was good enough Aug 13 18:30:52 mmm. if marius says so Aug 13 18:30:59 if you cared, you could install this thing and check there Aug 13 18:31:06 he also went on vacation Aug 13 18:31:19 anyway, i'm annoyed enough to actually check Aug 13 18:31:23 well, sorta check anyway Aug 13 18:31:31 * timeless still doesn't want to install python Aug 13 18:31:36 :) i'll watch my tv ep and eat dinner Aug 13 18:31:49 why do you hate python, erm, pythong? Aug 13 18:31:50 so is no one here willing to try this hacked package on a pymaemo'd device? Aug 13 18:32:02 fear of the unknown? Aug 13 18:32:08 competitive disinterest? Aug 13 18:32:10 dunno Aug 13 18:32:17 it's not really dislike i suppose Aug 13 18:32:24 i could try later Aug 13 18:32:25 i simply have no need for it Aug 13 18:32:59 so if somebody was mad enough to port gtk to sh (shgtk) you would use it? Aug 13 18:33:13 anyone ported mad yet? Aug 13 18:33:21 * timeless doesn't see how that follows Aug 13 18:33:29 i'd sooner uninstall gtk Aug 13 18:33:38 i'm not sure either Aug 13 18:35:52 ok, so this thing /might/ use /usr/bin/sensivble-* Aug 13 18:35:55 sp Aug 13 18:35:59 s/v// Aug 13 18:36:07 ok, so this thing /might/ use /usr/bin/sensivble-* Aug 13 18:36:09 s/v// Aug 13 18:36:10 timeless meant: ok, so this thing /might/ use /usr/bin/sensible-* Aug 13 18:36:31 in fact, i'm pretty sure that's the only thing it'd use Aug 13 18:36:42 Someone knows if is possible to get texto2speech on N800? Aug 13 18:36:58 yes, espeak and flite are available Aug 13 18:37:08 Thanks! Aug 13 18:37:46 python (>= 2.4), python-support (>= 0.2), apt (>= 0.5.3), python-apt, debconf | debconf-2.0, ucf (>= 0.28), debianutils (>= 2.0.2) Aug 13 18:37:52 so, is debianutils the only conflict? Aug 13 18:37:56 people say flite is better, but i like setting espeak to 'french speaker' and reading back english texts Aug 13 18:37:58 debconf will be fine? Aug 13 18:39:23 I will try both.... Aug 13 18:39:37 is there a vtun package for n800? Aug 13 18:41:47 ok, stupid question :) Aug 13 18:41:57 how do i view the changelog for apt-listchanges_2.74_all.deb :) Aug 13 18:42:20 <`0660> :p Aug 13 18:48:19 i know it's ironic, that aside, where is it/how do i read it? :) Aug 13 18:48:41 hi guys Aug 13 18:49:59 timeless: does google apply? ;) Aug 13 18:50:00 is it possible to use tun/tap devices on n800? Aug 13 18:50:12 dunno, i haven't tried Aug 13 18:50:21 i'm reading debian-user where someone asked for a replacement for it Aug 13 18:50:25 or is this for a general purpose for annoyingly ungooglable content Aug 13 18:50:42 * timeless ponders Aug 13 18:51:16 google apt-listchanges -> http://packages.debian.org/unstable/utils/apt-listchanges -> View the Debian changelog http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/a/apt-listchanges/apt-listchanges_2.74/changelog Aug 13 18:51:42 ooh, unlinkified bug numbers Aug 13 18:52:08 ? Aug 13 18:52:19 (in that changelog page) Aug 13 18:52:46 * timeless curses debian-user Aug 13 18:52:53 flaming people is just not the way to go Aug 13 18:53:23 and no, i'm not flaming them, that'd involve me posting there Aug 13 18:53:26 and i won't do that :) Aug 13 18:57:48 bedboi: <*> Universal TUN/TAP device driver support Aug 13 18:58:13 nice Aug 13 18:58:30 i'm missing python, python-support, python-apt, ucf, debianutils Aug 13 18:58:59 i have 3.2007 / n800, how do i get a repository set to make that happy? Aug 13 19:01:05 ssh! be vewwy vewwy quiet... Aug 13 19:01:12 * pupnik is hunting buglets Aug 13 19:01:22 heh Aug 13 19:02:50 * timeless grumbles and considers installing python Aug 13 19:03:35 ok Aug 13 19:03:38 what's python-support? Aug 13 19:07:25 ij Aug 13 19:07:25 ] Aug 13 19:07:45 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/apt-listchanges_2.74_maemo-1.deb Aug 13 19:07:56 let me know if it works Aug 13 19:07:57 some sort of module package installation support thing iirc Aug 13 19:08:07 you'll need a bunch of python things Aug 13 19:08:16 of course there's a competing thing, python-central or something Aug 13 19:08:24 which probably means temporarily adding a debian|ubuntu repository Aug 13 19:08:29 * sp3000 doesn't recall if they've gotten around to deprecating one Aug 13 19:08:38 sp3000: funny, the depends for this mess include both Aug 13 19:08:58 pupnik, can you run Flite on N800? Aug 13 19:09:00 directly or via one? Aug 13 19:09:00 * timeless hastily runs away from the debian flameware Aug 13 19:09:07 indirectly of course :) Aug 13 19:09:25 I guess one being deprecated could make it become a compatibility layer atop the other Aug 13 19:09:50 which would be an exuse for dependency Aug 13 19:09:55 * sp3000 doesn't know :) Aug 13 19:10:21 hrm, is application manager supposed to open if i select it from the task navigator? Aug 13 19:10:33 DaniloCesar: i only have a 770 but flite should work on both 770 and n800 Aug 13 19:10:38 pupnik: http://sparrsstuff.com/localepurge Aug 13 19:10:52 cool sparr Aug 13 19:12:37 qim: fwiw... Aug 13 19:12:48 the changelog in the blog was based on the internal changelog Aug 13 19:12:56 user reported items were listed at the top Aug 13 19:13:09 the rest was based on fixes mostly because of internal bugs Aug 13 19:13:22 pupnik: if i get a garage repository, ill put my theme packages up Aug 13 19:13:45 user=people who can't touch internal bug databases Aug 13 19:14:40 * timeless frowns Aug 13 19:14:42 sp3000? Aug 13 19:14:43 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/content_comparison.html Aug 13 19:14:44 from a stock 770 install with 61MB free, ive installed openssh, pcregrep, a new busybox, and localepurge... and now ive got 72MB free :) Aug 13 19:14:55 oh heh Aug 13 19:14:57 * timeless grumbles Aug 13 19:15:08 11+MB freed between locale data and media files Aug 13 19:15:11 the libpango1.0-dbg => libpnago1.0-0-dbg transition is confusing Aug 13 19:15:29 pupnik: is the gallery stuff on the right too intrusive? Aug 13 19:15:34 qim: personally i'd rather you have had a "replaced by" item instead of "removed" Aug 13 19:15:41 a link to the replacement would be nice Aug 13 19:15:43 8 <4k images doesnt seem to be too much of a bloat burden Aug 13 19:16:59 timeless? Aug 13 19:17:00 <_Monkey> rumour has it timeless is a browser developer working for nokia on the maemo browser (microb). also a mozilla contributor Aug 13 19:17:23 sp3000: for a moment i was trying to understand why a -dbg package would be removed from a distro Aug 13 19:17:25 * sp3000 slaps _Monkey Aug 13 19:17:28 but then i saw its replacement Aug 13 19:17:59 meh, that thread wasn't flamey at all :) Aug 13 19:18:11 sp3000: apt-listchanges? Aug 13 19:18:16 (by debian standards anyway) Aug 13 19:18:40 yeah well, my tolerance for flamings is about as high as my tolerance for hot food Aug 13 19:18:57 timeless: by "qim" you mean me? :) Aug 13 19:19:21 yeah Aug 13 19:19:40 sorry :) Aug 13 19:19:43 timeless: good to know, good apprach internal-external Aug 13 19:19:53 gil, quim, too hard to keep names straight Aug 13 19:20:35 anyway, at some point i'll probably go through this channel and make a blog entry or three from it Aug 13 19:22:06 * timeless kicks bugs.maemo.org's broken customization Aug 13 19:22:58 timeless: I don't know if the script would be so clever to know the substitute of a removed package Aug 13 19:23:15 it probably isn't Aug 13 19:23:20 but there shouldn't be too many Aug 13 19:23:27 it'd be a win if you manually checked Aug 13 19:23:37 so, 12MB is about the best i can do for freeing up space on the default 770 image, plus whatever localepurge does in the long run Aug 13 19:23:46 seems useful, thats 10% of the root filesystem Aug 13 19:23:59 you weren't here (but you can read the logs), when i mentioned that my changelog write-up was essentially a rewrite of the changelogs Aug 13 19:24:15 from the looks of it, there was only 1 instance in this case Aug 13 19:24:29 but my guess is that on average there will be fewer than 20 Aug 13 19:24:42 i had something like 200 lines of garbage to read Aug 13 19:24:56 at least package names become human readable by the 5th package :) Aug 13 19:25:17 anyway, it's just a minor thing Aug 13 19:25:29 our goal should be to give people helpful/meaningful/useful information Aug 13 19:25:40 and not to give them unwarranted redflags Aug 13 19:25:49 the red in that case is most certainly unwarranted Aug 13 19:26:04 anyway, i'm going to hunt pizza and maybe a movie Aug 13 19:26:17 timeless: that's my goal and this is why I keep focusing on those factors when looking at the packages that need to provide more infor and which kind of info Aug 13 19:26:45 you also missed the bits where i basically said that conic's lack of decent changelogs isn't really acceptable in my book Aug 13 19:26:53 (and that the browser's real changelogs are no better) Aug 13 19:27:04 anyway, i'm hungry Aug 13 19:27:15 we can talk tomorrow, i need to pick up that shirt and mail it :) Aug 13 19:27:35 timeless: you can talk to me, but remember that I don't make a single package :P Aug 13 19:28:48 heh Aug 13 19:28:57 i don't either technically Aug 13 19:29:04 at least, hrm Aug 13 19:29:07 is that true? Aug 13 19:29:16 i've made a number of pieces of software Aug 13 19:29:24 and in fact, i think i have put together my own debs Aug 13 19:29:34 oh well... they're not officially shipped by anyone :) Aug 13 19:30:48 ive built a deb Aug 13 19:30:52 does it count if its empty? Aug 13 19:30:53 :) Aug 13 19:31:04 rol your own :p Aug 13 19:31:08 i've hacked a bunch of debs actually Aug 13 19:31:22 the most recent was apt-listchanges a few hours ago Aug 13 19:31:29 or less than an hour ago Aug 13 19:33:17 what can internal error appilcation 'web' mean at startup? i have the minib installed. can i log the reason? Aug 13 19:33:48 check syslog? Aug 13 19:34:05 you might try reboting Aug 13 19:34:22 also, if you have mkdir -p /media/mmc1/core-dumps Aug 13 19:34:28 you can collect a core and pass it my way Aug 13 19:35:56 i already have this problem for w while. so i already rebooted many times. i also just updated the browser. Aug 13 19:36:24 thanks for the tip Aug 13 19:36:59 anyway, a zip containing a syslog+coredump is appreciated Aug 13 19:37:03 there should be 2 coredumps, a small one, and a big one Aug 13 19:37:23 from memory, we don't care about the small one (probably named browser), but want the bigger one (annoyingly named maemo-launcher?) Aug 13 19:37:56 if you want to get rid of that confusion, you can probably change /usr/bin/browser to point to the other of /usr/bin/maemo-(invoker|summoner) Aug 13 19:37:58 gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mit.edu --recv-keys AD9AE76A Aug 13 19:38:01 don't ask me which is which Aug 13 19:38:02 whats wrong with that? Aug 13 19:38:04 works on my desktop Aug 13 19:38:06 770 says Aug 13 19:38:16 gpg: no remote program execution supported Aug 13 19:38:45 * keesj goes searching for a sd card. by syslog you mean dmesg output or something else? Aug 13 19:39:26 apt-cache search sysklogd Aug 13 19:39:44 _monkey syslog is apt-get install sysklogd (or use downloads.maemo.org like everyone else) Aug 13 19:39:44 <_Monkey> OK, timeless. Aug 13 19:39:53 you don't need an mmc technically Aug 13 19:39:59 note that i said mkdir -p Aug 13 19:40:04 that'll work even if you don't have an mmc Aug 13 19:40:16 it's just a lot more dangerous since you can brick your device w/ it :) Aug 13 19:40:23 ok, this is annoying Aug 13 19:40:30 every howto just says "see the secure apt howto" Aug 13 19:40:34 but those instructions are wrong Aug 13 19:40:35 wtf Aug 13 19:40:45 obviously SOMEONE has secure apt working on the 770 Aug 13 19:41:20 sparr: can you just copy the keyring from another system? Aug 13 19:42:10 so.. does libconic have a way to re-scan for available acceess points? or is that not the API that the connection manager gui uses? Aug 13 19:42:15 the keyring on my desktop is not small Aug 13 19:42:24 and my gpg-fu does not extend to producing a subset Aug 13 19:42:50 well it wouldn't be your keyring, it would be the one for apt in /etc/apt/ Aug 13 19:43:27 ahh Aug 13 19:43:31 still, not small :) Aug 13 19:44:16 hmm Aug 13 19:44:25 "unable to open" dialog showing up on my display as i apt-get install things Aug 13 19:44:31 after my desktop turned white Aug 13 19:48:15 hrm, it looks like i broke support for multiple *s Aug 13 19:49:35 http://www.keesj.dds.nl/syslog its talking about gconf and http proxy. brrrrr sounds like the windows registry, Aug 13 19:50:45 gconf makes sense though :) Aug 13 19:50:46 heh, silly bug Aug 13 19:50:50 [0] != [-1] Aug 13 19:51:05 sometimes it does :) Aug 13 19:51:28 indeed, but thankfully it wasn't soon enough for me to notice Aug 13 19:52:44 anybody recommend a bluetooth barcode scanner to pair with a 770? Aug 13 19:54:05 so can i just create a dir in there? Aug 13 19:54:55 mkdir -p /etc/osso-af-init/gconf-dir/system/http_proxy/ ? Aug 13 19:59:04 sp3000: anyway, i've drafted 5, 6, 7 Aug 13 20:00:34 * timeless sighs Aug 13 20:00:48 someone please tell me there's a way to *stop* people from posting comments to gforge threads Aug 13 20:00:55 heh Aug 13 20:01:29 I'll look wednesday probably Aug 13 20:01:34 guitar shopping tomoorow Aug 13 20:01:36 thanks Aug 13 20:01:43 oh, good luck, and enjoy, etc. Aug 13 20:01:46 https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=1348&forum_id=1175 Aug 13 20:01:48 * timeless sighs Aug 13 20:01:52 that's scathing Aug 13 20:02:01 i just removed it it was a file. i silly me did not look at the content . still that did not solve it . at least i have syslog running! Aug 13 20:02:22 given that there are <200 files in the entire repo Aug 13 20:02:55 excluding dirs+pics there are <70 Aug 13 20:05:04 <50 if i exclude articles i haven't published ... Aug 13 20:05:47 ok, would someone here who has *never* been to http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ Aug 13 20:06:13 please try to find "slides" about the browser project Aug 13 20:06:49 according to the post: Aug 13 20:06:50 GUADEC 2007 presentation is published. Find it in the "Documentation" section. Aug 13 20:07:21 * timeless really doesn't get it Aug 13 20:07:34 it's easy enough from http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ Aug 13 20:07:41 from garage? forget it :) Aug 13 20:08:07 oh! Aug 13 20:08:12 * timeless sighs Aug 13 20:08:19 can i just svn delete garage? Aug 13 20:08:28 that'd solve a number of my problems Aug 13 20:09:47 interesting Aug 13 20:10:05 garage kinda admits who we are kinda Aug 13 20:10:08 * timeless doesn't like that Aug 13 20:10:51 ooh Aug 13 20:10:55 * timeless could turn off news Aug 13 20:14:06 * timeless curses Aug 13 20:14:11 there are forums in garage too! Aug 13 20:14:26 fast poll: have you ever checked the "maemo" page at Wikipedia? Yes, recently / Yes, some time ago / No, never Aug 13 20:14:28 yeah that's the annoying thing Aug 13 20:14:32 there's everything Aug 13 20:14:45 i really tried to delete as many things as possible Aug 13 20:15:02 https://garage.maemo.org/forum/message.php?msg_id=962 Aug 13 20:15:03 ?! Aug 13 20:16:04 he updated a 770?! Aug 13 20:16:10 timeless: see the date Aug 13 20:16:23 2007-01-25 21:02 Aug 13 20:16:28 * timeless looks at the date Aug 13 20:16:31 confused Aug 13 20:16:32 this belongs to the old project Aug 13 20:16:39 old project? Aug 13 20:16:41 qgil: No, never... Aug 13 20:16:50 what old project? Aug 13 20:17:20 I don't for what reason someone created the "maemo browser" project in garage back in 2006 something - don't ask me, I wasn't working at Nokia on that time Aug 13 20:17:59 "ask your manager" is always a recommended step in corporate environments ;) Aug 13 20:18:17 yeah yeah Aug 13 20:18:22 it was a misstep Aug 13 20:18:28 MoRpHeUz: thanks! let's see if I can increase the universe of the fast poll :) Aug 13 20:18:42 =) Aug 13 20:22:22 alright, poll closed. 100% of the interviewed people didn't check ever http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo Aug 13 20:22:34 should I conclude then that it's not worth invisting time improving it :) Aug 13 20:22:44 never heard of it :) Aug 13 20:23:01 timeless: any progress on apt-listchanges? Aug 13 20:23:05 generally speaking, i leave Aug 13 20:23:09 sparr: i posted a .deb Aug 13 20:23:23 i'm not sacrificing any of the devices i currently have to python Aug 13 20:23:26 hmm what is the easiest way to setup ssh in n800? Aug 13 20:23:27 :) Aug 13 20:23:30 if you need the url, i can provide it Aug 13 20:23:33 well, im going to have python soon Aug 13 20:23:35 ssh? Aug 13 20:23:35 <_Monkey> somebody said ssh was a 'secure shell' client/server. It lets you get access to the linux shell on a Tablet. See http://maemo.org/community/wiki/installssh2006/ Aug 13 20:23:37 so hit me with the url and ill try it Aug 13 20:23:43 note that, in comparison, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNOME is arguably more descriptive and comprehensive than the whole www.gnome.oirg Aug 13 20:23:50 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/apt-listchanges_2.74_maemo-1.deb Aug 13 20:23:56 omg i hate the gui debconf on maemo!! Aug 13 20:24:00 anyway, time to sleep Aug 13 20:24:07 qgil: fwiw... Aug 13 20:24:10 im going to beat that damn thing back into dialog or readline mode Aug 13 20:24:16 ime wikipedians will evolve the articles on their own Aug 13 20:24:20 they don't need your help Aug 13 20:24:27 and in act, it's probably better to let them do it Aug 13 20:24:32 s/act/fact/ Aug 13 20:24:32 timeless meant: and in fact, it's probably better to let them do it Aug 13 20:24:38 so i can connect to a server via xterm Aug 13 20:24:40 timeless: some of us are wikipedians :) Aug 13 20:24:46 I just set up an additional target in scratchbox after adding the Mono devkit, but I can't select that target. I keep getting the error "You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first", and I can't figure out how to close my other session. Any help would be appreciated. Aug 13 20:24:54 sparr: be qgil's guest :) Aug 13 20:25:31 my desktop wallpaper disappears while im running apt-get Aug 13 20:25:34 anyone else have that? Aug 13 20:25:37 it comes back later Aug 13 20:25:44 i meant investing time increasing the awareness, as I'm doing slowly with other sources at https://maemo.org/community/wiki/tabletusersinthesocialweb/ Aug 13 20:25:56 oops http://maemo.org/community/wiki/tabletusersinthesocialweb/ Aug 13 20:26:31 wikis are a horrible drug Aug 13 20:26:36 cgoban + gnugo == the shit Aug 13 20:26:41 so many outlets, no directions Aug 13 20:26:57 * timeless shrugs Aug 13 20:27:10 the fewer wikis the better in my book Aug 13 20:27:17 (heck, the fewer pages the better) Aug 13 20:27:17 i agree Aug 13 20:27:17 timeless: one day you have to introduce me to your Perfect World :P Aug 13 20:27:23 as a community, we need to standardize Aug 13 20:27:29 qgil: it'd fit in the palm of your hand :) Aug 13 20:27:38 or at least into a single book that says "Don't Panic" on it Aug 13 20:27:41 i wish the maemo.org wiki was better... the itT wiki is the best resource right now Aug 13 20:27:44 hmm where can i download dropbear? Aug 13 20:27:54 dropbear? Aug 13 20:27:55 <_Monkey> well, dropbear is a relatively small SSH 2 server and client. http://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html Aug 13 20:28:08 molagi: the bot might help you if you gave it a chance Aug 13 20:28:13 sparr: better what for? Aug 13 20:28:18 personally, i just use downloads.maemo.org :) Aug 13 20:28:25 hmm Aug 13 20:28:28 ok Aug 13 20:28:29 :D Aug 13 20:28:40 qgil: technically, for one thing. midgard has a crap wiki system, to be blunt. Aug 13 20:28:44 sparr: Aug 13 20:28:45 The open source components are well-known desktop Linux libraries to make application porting trivial. Aug 13 20:28:52 isnt there a one for os2007 Aug 13 20:28:53 ;[ Aug 13 20:29:05 if you want to be a good wikipedian, how about fixing the English there :) Aug 13 20:29:18 timeless: never said i was a GOOD wikipedian Aug 13 20:29:23 maybe im mediocre. or evil. Aug 13 20:29:24 (or rather, total lack of a sentence/thought) Aug 13 20:29:32 sparr we asked in maemo-developers few weeks ago but from the answers we didn't got the conclusion of moving to another engine - and the possibility was on the table Aug 13 20:30:01 Molagi: dropbear is smaller than openssh, but less featureful Aug 13 20:30:35 oh Aug 13 20:30:36 anyway, if the itt wiki is a good one - so be it. No problem. Aug 13 20:30:47 qgil: the issue boils down to another wiki already having better content for almost everything that maemo.org has, and far more of it. working to bring maemo.org up to that level doesnt help the community, it just helps the site. Aug 13 20:30:50 i only want ssh to use irssi Aug 13 20:31:02 Molagi: dropbear will do Aug 13 20:31:03 until the maemo.org wiki matches the itt wiki, theres no reason for us 'normal' folks to use it Aug 13 20:31:27 how many maemo wikis are there? Aug 13 20:31:38 just the two that i am aware of Aug 13 20:31:41 * timeless really couldn't say if there was 1 or 20 Aug 13 20:31:48 http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page Aug 13 20:31:58 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ Aug 13 20:31:58 the application catalog stuff is amazingly confusing Aug 13 20:32:16 timeless: What is confusing about it? Aug 13 20:32:44 jjazz: someone deciding the new catalog is better than the old one and removing links to the old ones, while the new one is still deficient and defective Aug 13 20:32:47 <||cw> it's gotten too big, and the applications tend to run together Aug 13 20:32:48 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationCatalog Aug 13 20:32:52 is the start page, right? Aug 13 20:32:56 no mention of 2007 Aug 13 20:32:59 that's a good start Aug 13 20:33:07 http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationcatalog2006/ Aug 13 20:33:14 The new Application Catalog is available for testing. Aug 13 20:33:18 ah Aug 13 20:33:19 http://downloads.maemo.org/ Aug 13 20:33:19 <||cw> we just need a common repo, like debian has Aug 13 20:33:21 timeless: there are the old pages, one for 2006, one for 2007. then theres the new ajaxish one Aug 13 20:33:23 so that's 2 or 3 there Aug 13 20:33:34 and theres the maemo downloads page, with its tag cloud Aug 13 20:33:37 if you don't think i'm confunsed yet Aug 13 20:33:41 timeless, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/wikireorg/ shows that these pages are obsolete Aug 13 20:34:02 qgil: obsolete, but not deprecated. marking them as obsolete before their content is fully duplicated elsewhere is a Bad Thing (TM) Aug 13 20:34:16 sparr: um Aug 13 20:34:20 having confusing content is a bad thing Aug 13 20:34:24 i'd rather have less content Aug 13 20:34:47 at leat wikipedia adds tags to all bad pages Aug 13 20:34:55 that make it very clear that pages are bad and why Aug 13 20:35:19 if someone wrote wikireorg, they clearly knew and took the time to list those pages Aug 13 20:35:31 so it shouldn't have been much longer to add some sort of thing to the pages themselves Aug 13 20:35:55 sparr, got your point about itt wiki Aug 13 20:36:14 <||cw> well this is nice, on http://downloads.maemo.org/ I choose it2006 and hit search, the first hit is it2007 only Aug 13 20:36:21 anyway, if the right thing to do is to delete wiki.maemo.org and point to itt Aug 13 20:36:26 then so be it :) Aug 13 20:36:41 one less wiki is never a bad thing in my book :)\ Aug 13 20:36:56 sparr we have to do something with the content at the maemo wiki though Aug 13 20:37:05 any ideas ar welcome Aug 13 20:37:08 qgil: migrate it to itt, if thats the solution Aug 13 20:37:13 we want to benefit the community, not the site alone Aug 13 20:37:20 all the application content needs to be moved into downloads.maemo.org Aug 13 20:37:23 and off the wiki Aug 13 20:37:30 all the informational content can be moved to the other wiki Aug 13 20:37:42 sparr are you in maemo-developers? Aug 13 20:37:47 yes Aug 13 20:38:00 just recently Aug 13 20:38:02 do you mind proposing this there and see what people think? Aug 13 20:38:17 sure, but its going to be blunt :) Aug 13 20:38:31 be yourself Aug 13 20:38:33 sparr: it can't be much more blunt than i am :) Aug 13 20:38:56 thanks sparr Aug 13 20:39:03 and now it's definitely time to sleep here Aug 13 20:39:08 sparr: http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#Networking Aug 13 20:39:12 for those of us not timeless Aug 13 20:39:15 the SSh link there is um, confusing Aug 13 20:39:26 the other links clearly say 770 Aug 13 20:39:28 timeless: edit it and fix it :P Aug 13 20:39:31 but that one doesn't Aug 13 20:40:19 Everything wrong with a wiki is your fault. Aug 13 20:40:24 :) Aug 13 20:40:40 no Aug 13 20:41:06 everything wrong with a wiki is usually the wiki's fault for making me need YetAnotherLameAccountWithYetAnotherPasswordIWillNotRemember Aug 13 20:41:16 is that in ProperWikiCase ? Aug 13 20:41:48 my favorite is that some wikis RequireTwoWordsForLogins AndTheFirstThingMustNotBeLowercase Aug 13 20:41:56 which means I can't have timeless even if i want it Aug 13 20:42:48 meh, broken wikis Aug 13 20:42:52 still your fault :-p Aug 13 20:43:13 my fault for reading them in the first place? certainly Aug 13 20:43:28 much better to honor SeeNoEvilSpeakNoEvilNoEvil Aug 13 20:43:45 or is that SeekNoEvilSeeNoEvilSpeakNoEvil Aug 13 20:45:22 * pupnik still has 'Seek beyond EOF' evil Aug 13 20:45:32 disq, trevarthan kagu is looking good. Aug 13 20:46:08 wb unique311 ... did you see http://pupnik.de/pcsx.html? :) Aug 13 20:46:16 not yet Aug 13 20:46:22 is it working? Aug 13 20:46:26 yep Aug 13 20:46:46 * timeless ponders Aug 13 20:46:56 ok, at some point i'll probably just turn off news Aug 13 20:47:03 that'll solve my other problem Aug 13 20:47:18 unique311: thanks. some of the look is still based on your work Aug 13 20:47:24 timeless, did that a long time ago. Aug 13 20:47:39 ? Aug 13 20:47:41 i love the color Aug 13 20:48:18 it's kinda too green for my taste, but i think the blackish icons look really nice Aug 13 20:48:44 unique311: sorry, i'm confused, you did what a long time ago? Aug 13 20:48:53 i'm using the valentine theme, because of a nice background i found. Aug 13 20:49:13 going to pink out kagu...lol Aug 13 20:49:25 we're adding a turn off screen button, playlist add/enqueue/clear options, and a menu for the next release Aug 13 20:49:35 timeless im sorry, thought you was talking about giving up watching news Aug 13 20:49:53 http://rafb.net/p/hUp9ne66.nln.html <-- packages i installed to get my 770 "ready", and i have 42MB of free space left. happy is me. Aug 13 20:49:55 unique311: the new psd has a marker layer which makes stuff easy Aug 13 20:50:03 disq that arrow the blue one sucks Aug 13 20:50:09 trev did it :P Aug 13 20:50:21 i think its ok tho Aug 13 20:52:33 pupnik time to see pcsx in action. Aug 13 20:52:37 how big is it? Aug 13 20:53:10 about 1.8 MB in all Aug 13 20:54:53 was just checking out the latest test results from the gp2x guys Aug 13 20:55:03 they're getting between 3 and 45 fps depending on the game Aug 13 20:57:06 pcsx? Aug 13 20:57:23 psx emu? i remember one on the gp2x, was getting better in leaps and bounds Aug 13 20:58:05 yes zodttd and Exophase's psx4gp2x / psx4all Aug 13 20:58:18 sp3000: maemo.2006-11-05 brings back memories :) Aug 13 20:58:52 pupnik, to get better speeds will take tweaking the gpu plugin right Aug 13 20:59:39 stop giving me gp2x envy :-p Aug 13 21:00:15 pupnik: results on n800 for this psx emu ? Aug 13 21:00:40 none yet Aug 13 21:00:58 bout to test it out Aug 13 21:01:04 need to get it installed Aug 13 21:02:08 unique311: =) Aug 13 21:02:13 if you go into the cpu config, disable XA decoding and CD Audio if it isn't yet Aug 13 21:04:04 i was amazed to see pcsx only taking up 24% of memory Aug 13 21:05:29 1.3 tops on the 770 Aug 13 21:05:38 so 2.6 on the n800 Aug 13 21:05:42 maybe Aug 13 21:06:10 all depends on the game Aug 13 21:06:33 some games on the psx are hella light Aug 13 21:06:37 and some arent :) Aug 13 21:06:46 go try wipeout on an emulator Aug 13 21:08:38 did you ever find any public domain/freeware psx games sparr? Aug 13 21:10:22 http://www.zophar.net/roms.phtml?op=show&type=psx Aug 13 21:11:13 ty Aug 13 21:14:07 carnival intro runs sort of Aug 13 21:14:32 2fps or so Aug 13 21:15:43 try zelda? Aug 13 21:15:48 k Aug 13 21:17:45 hmm Aug 13 21:17:51 guillem++ re categories Aug 13 21:17:57 who uses that stuff :) Aug 13 21:18:24 * sp3000 is such a hierarchy hater Aug 13 21:20:32 Modification of non-creatable array value attempted, subscript -1 Aug 13 21:20:33 yum Aug 13 21:20:44 sp3000: categories? Aug 13 21:20:52 appman Aug 13 21:21:33 sp3000: i kicked the skype people today Aug 13 21:21:52 hopefully they'll stop polluting application manager Aug 13 21:22:01 heh Aug 13 21:22:17 btw, if you guys have bugs that you see, please either file them or poke me Aug 13 21:22:22 i'll gladly kick people internally Aug 13 21:22:28 app man behavior has become a nonissue for me... im either in red pill mode or running synaptic instead Aug 13 21:22:30 it's not hard, most people are close at hand Aug 13 21:22:50 which reminds me Aug 13 21:22:56 * timeless needs to file a bug against app manager Aug 13 21:23:05 it seems that if you give it an install file Aug 13 21:23:23 and one of the repositories in apt is unavailable, app manager forgets what it was supposed to install Aug 13 21:23:36 or at least, that's the rumor i heard Aug 13 21:23:39 app manager misbehaves is ANYTHING is wrong with apt Aug 13 21:23:41 meta-bug :) Aug 13 21:23:47 s/is/if/ Aug 13 21:25:15 oops Aug 13 21:25:18 * timeless chuckles Aug 13 21:25:24 imagine a list: Aug 13 21:25:30 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 5. Aug 13 21:26:09 app manager needs an "im a big boy now" mode, where it will at least TELL me what the apt error is when it dies Aug 13 21:26:25 sparr: doesn't the log let you see that? Aug 13 21:26:26 sparr, log Aug 13 21:26:56 aha Aug 13 21:27:03 so, has someone installed my apt-listchanges thing yet? Aug 13 21:27:10 * timeless wants to know if it works Aug 13 21:27:11 i wasted a lot of time figuring out what was wrong when i typo'd a repository/component Aug 13 21:27:18 link to listchanges again? Aug 13 21:27:20 ill install it now Aug 13 21:27:30 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/apt-listchanges_2.74_maemo-1.deb Aug 13 21:27:33 ive got python2.5 thanks to something that needed pygame i think Aug 13 21:27:36 you know, there's a log of this channel Aug 13 21:27:38 oooh, n800? Aug 13 21:27:39 <_Monkey> n800 is much better than a desk phone :-) Aug 13 21:27:45 oh Aug 13 21:27:49 err, you're 770, right? Aug 13 21:27:52 well, try it anyway Aug 13 21:28:06 would you rather i rename it maemo? Aug 13 21:28:14 haha Aug 13 21:28:18 depends on python Aug 13 21:28:21 i have python2.5 Aug 13 21:28:33 is python not compatible w/ python2.5? Aug 13 21:28:40 i can rewrite lines in the control file... Aug 13 21:29:11 python2.5 should Provides python Aug 13 21:29:17 bug in the python2.5 package, methinks Aug 13 21:29:47 real problems though... we dont have ucf Aug 13 21:29:56 i had to shoehorn ucf in the first time i tried localepurge Aug 13 21:30:01 what's the package name Aug 13 21:30:03 ucf Aug 13 21:30:04 :) Aug 13 21:30:22 python-2.5, python-2-5, python25, python2.5 Aug 13 21:30:38 python2.5 Aug 13 21:30:39 <_Monkey> python2.5 is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! Aug 13 21:30:58 how do you spell python*2*5*support? Aug 13 21:31:07 or should i just drop that? :) Aug 13 21:31:13 python2.5-support if it exists, but it doesnt seem to exist Aug 13 21:31:27 ok Aug 13 21:31:29 im going to cheat Aug 13 21:31:41 im building an equivs package to Provides coreutils and debianutils Aug 13 21:31:47 how about python-apt? Aug 13 21:31:53 and sending nasty vibes to whoever built busybox without that line Aug 13 21:32:05 there is no python*-apt :( Aug 13 21:32:19 this isn't going to work very well w/o it :) Aug 13 21:32:25 probably not Aug 13 21:32:43 would you rather i just provide a tarball containing /usr and /etc? :) Aug 13 21:33:02 or i could make everything Recommends instead of Depends :) Aug 13 21:33:06 does n800 have python-apt? Aug 13 21:33:22 well, the coreutils/debianutils thing is the fault of the busybox package Aug 13 21:33:23 1.2007 doesn't have python afaik Aug 13 21:33:29 dont "fix" YOUR package to fix theirs Aug 13 21:33:51 sorry, dealing w/ other people and packages is either easy or hard Aug 13 21:33:55 in the skype case it was easy Aug 13 21:34:09 in the busybox case, i'm pretty sure it's hard, otherwise it'd have been done, no? Aug 13 21:34:11 python-apt requires python-central Aug 13 21:34:15 which we also dont have Aug 13 21:34:56 sp3000: remember i mentioned that depend? :) Aug 13 21:35:02 hard my ass. its one line in the package control file. busybox currently Conflicts debianutils and coreutils. its technically incorrect for it to Provides them, because it might not depending on compile options, but it would fix a lot of package installs that just want coreutils for something silly like "rm" :) Aug 13 21:35:34 yeah Aug 13 21:35:41 i think busybox hit politics problems Aug 13 21:35:54 since it couldn't make up its mind about what it acually did or when Aug 13 21:35:57 so im going to equivs up a fake package to provide those :) Aug 13 21:36:05 when i get back. afk for a few hours. Aug 13 21:36:18 sorry i couldnt help with listchanges Aug 13 21:36:33 this btw, is part of why i don't like python Aug 13 21:36:37 people think it's cool Aug 13 21:36:41 but it's not :) Aug 13 21:36:48 its dependency hell makes perl look good Aug 13 21:37:05 at least w/ perl, i can cpan install what i need locally :) Aug 13 21:37:13 locally = no root required Aug 13 21:44:04 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n800/apt-listchanges_2.74_maemo-2.deb Aug 13 21:44:20 see if you can install that :) Aug 13 21:44:45 i somehow missed what this 'listchanges' does. what is it timeless ? Aug 13 21:45:24 in theory, although we really don't know Aug 13 21:45:35 if you manage to get it installed and working (requires python-*) Aug 13 21:45:53 then when you use an apt interface (i.e. application manager) and try to install / upgrade a package Aug 13 21:46:15 it should dump to log (?) the changelog between the previous version (if any) and the version you're installing Aug 13 21:46:24 we have no idea if this will actually work Aug 13 21:47:55 cool stuff Aug 13 21:48:00 * pupnik naps Aug 13 21:48:37 of course, there's a lot of hand waving involved. like "can you actually get python to work?" and "will it manage to log somewhere useful" Aug 13 21:48:38 timeless: parting shot... CPAN would be more impressive if it was filesystem-case-sensitivity-aware... was very fun when CPAN overwrote /usr/bin/head with /usr/bin/Head on our OS X server at work Aug 13 21:48:54 heh Aug 13 21:49:10 that's what you're supposed to use HFSX or UFS or ZFS :) Aug 13 21:49:21 or be smart and don't install anything into / :) Aug 13 21:49:29 i did say something about doing local installs :) Aug 13 21:49:41 and yes, i do have a mac at home Aug 13 21:50:28 planning to get a macbook soon Aug 13 21:50:30 but yeah, you do have some sympathy Aug 13 21:54:04 i wonder why canola won't like some of my album tags and list them in the unknown section Aug 13 21:54:28 disq: what id3tag shows? Aug 13 21:54:58 k-s[WORK]: please rephrase. is there a binary named id3tag? Aug 13 21:55:17 disq: yep, there are some tools that print the contents of id3 tag Aug 13 21:55:39 one of them is id3, other is id3tag, or id3info... Aug 13 21:55:48 do you have armel binaries for those? Aug 13 21:56:04 disq: can't you copy to your linux desktop Aug 13 21:56:05 ? Aug 13 21:56:05 i know the files have id3 tags (both idv1 and idv2) Aug 13 21:56:16 i don't have a linux desktop but i'll try installing id3 to my linux server :P Aug 13 21:58:00 disq: :-) Aug 13 22:05:01 pupnik, cfgpeop file not found Aug 13 22:05:16 pupnik, cfgpeopssoft file not found Aug 13 22:21:17 ok Aug 13 22:21:22 zelda runs Aug 13 22:21:29 slow as hell Aug 13 22:21:37 how do i bring up the fps? Aug 13 22:21:56 just roudn it to 1fps and call it a day? :) Aug 13 22:22:08 ugh. I just cheese balled the Kagu thread. :) Aug 13 22:22:10 * trevarthan rips off his Public Relations hat and stomps on it. Aug 13 22:22:13 well, I'm goin' home. See ya later peeps Aug 13 22:23:08 guessing its 0.5 Aug 13 22:52:06 anyone in here using the tablet with no scratch protect Aug 13 22:52:09 ?? Aug 13 22:52:10 ?? Aug 13 22:57:21 scratch protect(ion)? like? Aug 13 22:57:25 i don't have any protection on my n800 Aug 13 23:03:58 hmmm Aug 13 23:04:18 disq, the screen protective thingie Aug 13 23:04:24 you don't use none Aug 13 23:04:54 was wondering if i needed it. been using my pocket pc forever without one, and no scratches on it. Aug 13 23:04:55 yeah Aug 13 23:06:10 I'm using it screen protector on my n800 Aug 13 23:06:27 its not the original that came with the n800 Aug 13 23:07:13 the one i'm using has a rubber feel Aug 13 23:07:27 using the stylus with it sucks Aug 13 23:08:51 The original screen protector was much better with the stylus, but after a couple of months show had scratches on it. Aug 13 23:59:49 maemo site down for anybody else? Aug 14 00:09:14 im on dialup. couldnt tell you for a few minutes Aug 14 00:09:25 n800 gets wiMax next year through sprint btw Aug 14 00:12:56 its ok now Aug 14 00:13:12 have you tried this running windowmanager image? Aug 14 01:38:31 a2dp is not working Aug 14 01:38:49 followed instructions Aug 14 01:38:57 still not working Aug 14 02:42:22 motorola h500 doesn't not play well with a2dp Aug 14 02:46:17 how can i install themes for maemo in scratchbox Aug 14 02:46:25 ? Aug 14 02:51:23 join #text **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 14 02:59:56 2007