**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Aug 18 02:59:56 2007 Aug 18 02:59:59 NeoStrider, Do U have a website where I can found your job? Aug 18 03:00:09 make sure its discoverable Aug 18 03:00:18 (obvious, i know) Aug 18 03:00:25 I have a blog where I comment my works Aug 18 03:00:31 http://corporatedrones.wordpress.com Aug 18 03:01:01 I think it not being discoverable is the problem, yet I can't get it going Aug 18 03:02:33 oh cool stuff Aug 18 03:02:57 never seen that company Aug 18 03:03:34 oh i have seen that keyboard Aug 18 03:03:44 i think its rebranded Aug 18 03:03:48 yeah Aug 18 03:03:59 Just won't get discoverable for the life of me Aug 18 03:04:57 arg i hate java and the jvms that come along with it Aug 18 03:06:48 well folks Aug 18 03:06:51 got to go Aug 18 03:07:09 * NeoStrider is very tired Aug 18 03:07:13 cya Aug 18 03:07:19 did you try fn+bullseye+home key? Aug 18 03:07:57 it clears the pairing and sets discoverable Aug 18 03:08:05 yeah, multiple times. damn thing. Aug 18 03:08:14 sorry Aug 18 03:08:45 no big deal, still got the other keyboard and I didn't pay for either! Aug 18 03:08:49 shame, sucks for you and i wanted to hear whether it was a serviceable kybd Aug 18 03:08:58 I think that the only think that miss on N800 is java applets.. I can access my bank in my N800 and its a little frustrating Aug 18 03:09:09 f java Aug 18 03:09:51 ooooh i can run my slow code on slow vms *anywhere* Aug 18 03:10:19 f java! I agree! But please, say this to my bank IT managers! lol Aug 18 03:11:36 its like someone took c++ and lobotomized it Aug 18 03:12:11 garbage disposal is wonderful... except that the jvm takes all my ram anyway Aug 18 03:12:31 i tune java vm's for a living. Aug 18 03:12:39 i like java. Aug 18 03:12:40 Luria, But is not a big problem anymore. I can use my bank applet under SSH and X-Forward Aug 18 03:12:54 i notice that cat /proc/cpuinfo mentions java as a cpu feature though. Aug 18 03:12:57 on my n800 at least. Aug 18 03:13:28 no offense intended here rik. still holding to my opinion :-) Aug 18 03:14:08 no offense taken Aug 18 03:14:17 especially after it took my pM/1ghz/512MB on k-meleon 5 minutes to load the aforementioned open hp config page Aug 18 03:14:35 personally, i dislike c++ a lot, always ave. seems like there's too many ways to do the same thing, and they're all slight variotions on each other, for maximum complexity. Aug 18 03:14:45 java seems like c++ done much better. i won't say "right" though. Aug 18 03:14:55 Folks! I'm going to my bed. Good night for everyone (If is night in your country) Aug 18 03:15:07 * DaniloCesar Going sleep Aug 18 03:15:10 it's 4:18am here Aug 18 03:15:13 but i'm jet lagged :) Aug 18 03:15:35 that i do understand Aug 18 03:15:44 still, i like rope to hang myself with Aug 18 03:15:51 * rik nods Aug 18 03:15:52 yes. Aug 18 03:16:04 if you can't screw yourself in interesting ways, then the language isn't as useful as it can be :) Aug 18 03:16:04 plus, i often treat it as c with classes Aug 18 03:16:14 which is a lot of rope, but can be done right Aug 18 03:16:49 i like c :-) Aug 18 03:17:16 i was sad to see people move away from teaching it for basic comp sci Aug 18 03:18:09 or c++ Aug 18 03:18:34 i was taught C, Java and Haskell, to appreciate all the big styles. Aug 18 03:18:46 i love C. but i haven't writen any serious C in a long time. Aug 18 03:20:11 im kinda teaching a friend of mine python as a way to learn python and get back into programming (using the how to think like a compscientist book) Aug 18 03:20:22 * rik nosd. Aug 18 03:20:49 i learned python. then i learned haskell.. or at least, what Haskell should have taught me - i still can't write haskell code, bt i can read it... and hten my python improved. Aug 18 03:20:51 on the one hand, its nice that he can make somewhat functioning code... Aug 18 03:21:32 on the other hand, it doesnt promote thinking in some fundamental ways that are integral to programming Aug 18 03:23:00 such as? Aug 18 03:23:06 memory allocation, etc? Aug 18 03:23:14 when we hit chap 5, i figured that now that he had learned to write a function (with returns), import libraries, and some basic io, he could get the hello world example Aug 18 03:23:31 but the concept of streams didnt work Aug 18 03:23:53 hm Aug 18 03:24:01 maybe if it were c and printf... Aug 18 03:24:32 still, the idea of encapsulating the main "script" in a function was problematic Aug 18 03:25:16 and his eyes kinda glazed, even though he should have had the vocabulary by this point, as i had him write some basic functions Aug 18 03:25:31 hmm Aug 18 03:25:31 nor is he particularly dumb Aug 18 03:26:06 i dunno, there are some bad problems with that book Aug 18 03:26:23 i dont like the fact that they use stupid variable names... Aug 18 03:27:04 when teaching string operations, you dont give def repeat_text(bruce): as an example Aug 18 03:27:24 wtf is bruce? it looks like something you'd pass to the function! Aug 18 03:28:05 * rik nods Aug 18 03:28:17 so he (rightly) got confused between literals and variables Aug 18 03:28:31 i can understand Aug 18 03:29:45 i started to say, "you know what, stick a "str_" in front of string variables, etc. etc." Aug 18 03:29:51 it helped a lot Aug 18 03:30:19 RPN! Aug 18 03:30:21 no Aug 18 03:30:27 Hungarian notation. that's the one. Aug 18 03:30:42 ok fine Aug 18 03:30:47 but this aint it Aug 18 03:30:48 http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/html/book004.html#toc32 Aug 18 03:30:58 i swear, i wasnt making this up Aug 18 03:31:09 that's unhelpful. Aug 18 03:31:40 im regretting using this book, somewhat Aug 18 03:32:08 shame. the concept was good. Aug 18 03:32:09 Hi Aug 18 03:32:10 in many respects it is good, but really bad about laying the foundations for design Aug 18 03:32:19 I just ordered a nokia 770 on amazon Aug 18 03:32:30 with a 1 gig rs-mmc card Aug 18 03:32:42 when I get it...what should I do with it first ? Aug 18 03:32:50 What is the "Killer App" Aug 18 03:33:27 there are a lot of great apps... maemo mapper is portable google earth... gizmo for sip voip Aug 18 03:33:36 gaim/pidgin for multi network im Aug 18 03:33:58 so... Aug 18 03:34:00 what about skype Aug 18 03:34:09 any luck with that ? Aug 18 03:34:54 rik, similarly, iit covers syntax, runtime, and sematic errors - but not issues with style. Aug 18 03:35:04 * rik nods Aug 18 03:35:41 what apps do you use Luria ? Aug 18 03:35:45 or thinking algorithmically Aug 18 03:35:54 ekim|irc, i have an n800 Aug 18 03:36:05 so my list may be different Aug 18 03:36:23 no skype afaik for the 770 Aug 18 03:36:42 xournal is really nice Aug 18 03:36:45 whats the difference betweenthe 770 and the 800 Aug 18 03:36:50 keep an eye out for that Aug 18 03:36:55 I bought the 770 bevause I could afford it :0 Aug 18 03:37:14 * rik coughs. has nmap, kismet, metasploit on his. is currently trying to figure out what PIM apps he needs. Aug 18 03:37:18 are there a lot of apps that are n800 only ? Aug 18 03:37:21 i understand. its a fine machine too. im thinking of picking up a 770 too. Aug 18 03:37:30 rik, ...nice Aug 18 03:37:40 i skipped pims cause i love the rtcomm stack Aug 18 03:37:49 Wow...because there is TOTALLY a lefitate use for metasploit Aug 18 03:37:55 lol Aug 18 03:38:02 what i want is a google calendar interface, actually. Aug 18 03:38:03 metasploit is hard on the IT Aug 18 03:38:04 now all we need is ethereal Aug 18 03:38:06 wait Aug 18 03:38:10 thats what kismet does Aug 18 03:38:11 right ? Aug 18 03:38:16 tcpdump. dsniff, etc. Aug 18 03:38:18 no Aug 18 03:38:24 well, sorta Aug 18 03:38:31 kismet is a sniffer no ? Aug 18 03:38:41 kismet is wireless, and will isolate certain packets Aug 18 03:38:45 Ohh Aug 18 03:38:58 ethereal will run on linux right ? Aug 18 03:39:03 mostly an ap finder Aug 18 03:39:07 yes. the point is that i'm a security consultant. i walk on site and a client says "we're secure. we'll pay yuou X thousand dollars for each vulnerability you acn find!" and i pull out the N800 and tell them what it's found so far. Aug 18 03:39:24 hahah Aug 18 03:39:37 I was just messin' with you :) Aug 18 03:39:57 i would love to copy your setup :-) i just reflashed and havent redone the metasploit install Aug 18 03:40:04 but it was so damn slow Aug 18 03:40:30 what is thedifference between the 800 and the 770 Aug 18 03:40:38 I got the 770 for only 150 bucks on amazon Aug 18 03:41:20 ram, internal storage, cpu speed, sd(hc) vs stupidflash Aug 18 03:41:38 aww damn Aug 18 03:41:42 the n800 uses sd cards Aug 18 03:41:52 but is it THAT much better Aug 18 03:42:00 having a litter buyers remorse Aug 18 03:42:27 oh, camera too Aug 18 03:42:38 the 770 doesn't have a camera ? Aug 18 03:42:38 depends what you want it for Aug 18 03:42:48 Ohh Aug 18 03:42:49 Nope Aug 18 03:42:55 well...that is cool Aug 18 03:42:56 no, iirc and wikipedia is correct Aug 18 03:43:24 but I have to be honest ... the camera would be really fun to play with for liek the first hour ... then I would never use it Aug 18 03:43:25 look, i like it for certain things - like i said, i have a n800 and am thinking about getting one Aug 18 03:43:31 yup Aug 18 03:43:38 getting one what ? Aug 18 03:43:44 770 Aug 18 03:43:46 why ? Aug 18 03:43:48 you have an 800 Aug 18 03:44:10 also... Aug 18 03:44:11 <_Monkey> rumour has it also is there a nice tutorial for setting up a python dev environment for the n800 Aug 18 03:44:18 OHH DUUUUDE Aug 18 03:44:21 for ereal ? Aug 18 03:44:29 has anyone got IDLE running on it yet ? Aug 18 03:44:35 where? Aug 18 03:44:35 ignore the damn bot Aug 18 03:44:51 there is ipython Aug 18 03:44:54 I am really excited about canola Aug 18 03:44:57 Ahh Aug 18 03:45:00 I never use those anywauy Aug 18 03:45:04 is ther egvim on it ? Aug 18 03:45:13 it is not my day for typing... Aug 18 03:45:29 there is real vim Aug 18 03:45:44 gvim is real vim Aug 18 03:45:50 gvim is gtk a gtk gui for vim Aug 18 03:46:00 because using vim in the windows command prompt sucks :) Aug 18 03:46:07 command line vim is fine on linux Aug 18 03:46:14 egvim - easy gvim Aug 18 03:46:26 with gnome-terminal , konsole , aterm ... or even xterm .... but not in the windows command prompt Aug 18 03:46:28 I forgot rxvt Aug 18 03:46:37 egvim ? Aug 18 03:46:39 Never heard of it Aug 18 03:46:48 I use the official gvim Aug 18 03:46:48 oh btw - the n800 can just about replace a notebook (with a keyboard) for data consumption and some typing and blogging Aug 18 03:47:06 can you plug a usb keyboard into the 770 ( with some modification ) ? Aug 18 03:47:08 the 770 is fine for the purposes of an internet tablet Aug 18 03:47:11 yes Aug 18 03:47:16 is ther ea link ? Aug 18 03:47:22 Imn sure there is a project on this somewhere ? Aug 18 03:47:25 you have to make a cable Aug 18 03:47:29 search itt Aug 18 03:47:54 damn... bitchx Aug 18 03:47:59 havent seen that in a while Aug 18 03:48:04 yeah...Im an irssi guy Aug 18 03:48:12 lol Aug 18 03:48:23 im a vim guy...and I do the same thing when people use emacs Aug 18 03:48:24 seriously Aug 18 03:48:29 all the emacs people are total masachists Aug 18 03:48:49 did I spell that right... Aug 18 03:48:54 today is not my day for spelling either Aug 18 03:48:57 i know the guy who rewrote the file save and did the ocr for emacs Aug 18 03:49:14 he's like look at all the cool shit you can do with emacs.... Aug 18 03:49:26 (i was demoing vim on the n800) Aug 18 03:49:33 i stare at him and say Aug 18 03:49:45 i want to edit a text file Aug 18 03:49:49 Dude...there is no doubt...you can do some cool shit with emacs Aug 18 03:50:06 but eventually...your gonna ctualyl want to EDIT TEXT FILES Aug 18 03:50:08 yeah, like load vim to edit Aug 18 03:50:22 the emacs zealots are all like ... dude ... look Aug 18 03:50:44 my editor reads my mail , reads my news , walks my dog , and does my fscking dishes Aug 18 03:50:52 o yeah...and if you want...it even edits text Aug 18 03:50:54 frankly, emacs is for people who forgot to run the other stuff before hand... are at a shell... and dont know how to use screen Aug 18 03:51:02 lol Aug 18 03:51:08 I hate it when I do that Aug 18 03:51:15 forget to start screen Aug 18 03:51:32 I get into an app and press CTRL-A + C and nothing happens Aug 18 03:51:57 oddly enough, he had never heard the escape-meta-alt-control-shift joke Aug 18 03:52:17 emacs has a great os, but i don't like the editor Aug 18 03:53:02 so...what happens if you press escape-meta-alt-control-shift ? Aug 18 03:53:08 and what if your meta key is alt Aug 18 03:53:09 ? Aug 18 03:53:13 * ekim|irc is confused Aug 18 03:53:23 i said "dont you need to hold escape-meta-alt-control-shift-a here?" and he's like "no, you never need to hit that many keys simultatiously..." before he got the joke Aug 18 03:53:38 e-m-a-c-s Aug 18 03:53:45 ohh Aug 18 03:53:46 Nice Aug 18 03:54:01 * ekim|irc feels like a nub Aug 18 03:54:14 do you have a keyboard on your n800 ? Aug 18 03:54:21 the look on his face was priceless, cause it sounded like a legit emacs question Aug 18 03:54:27 yes, i bought one Aug 18 03:54:37 it was Aug 18 03:54:44 an e-m-a-c-s question Aug 18 03:54:53 seriouly ... vim FTW Aug 18 03:54:56 anyhow Aug 18 03:55:00 is it bluetooth ? Aug 18 03:55:04 yes Aug 18 03:55:12 because for me...bluetooth seems overkill if the device is right next to it Aug 18 03:55:17 how much was it ? Aug 18 03:55:18 igo ultra slim Aug 18 03:55:25 $100 Aug 18 03:55:31 but i got b&m Aug 18 03:55:36 yeah...still pretty expensive Aug 18 03:55:41 you can find it cheaper online Aug 18 03:55:53 b&m ? Aug 18 03:55:57 but actually it was cheap compared to many online places Aug 18 03:55:59 the baked bean people ? Aug 18 03:56:03 brick and mortar Aug 18 03:56:08 physical stores Aug 18 03:56:17 I know what brick and mortar is Aug 18 03:56:22 I like beans though :) Aug 18 03:56:30 ok. why not. Aug 18 03:56:33 why no love for the beans :( Aug 18 03:56:40 I DEMAND love for the beans! Aug 18 03:57:01 seriously...is there a way to connect a regular usb keyboard to the 770 Aug 18 03:57:06 not everyone here (especially here) is a native english speaker, so i make no assumptions Aug 18 03:57:21 more that a few people from finland, you know Aug 18 03:57:46 of course Aug 18 03:57:50 nokia ia based in finland Aug 18 03:57:55 not that it ha anything to do with it Aug 18 03:58:00 or maybe it does Aug 18 03:58:03 uh Aug 18 03:58:07 yeah it does Aug 18 03:58:12 that was my point :-) Aug 18 03:58:28 Well...I am not finish Aug 18 03:58:29 :) Aug 18 03:58:42 im from florida....which is probably as far as you can get Aug 18 03:58:53 and you apparently are from new york Aug 18 03:59:02 do a /who on the channel... Aug 18 03:59:07 yup Aug 18 03:59:25 I know Aug 18 03:59:29 nyc.res.rr.com Aug 18 03:59:39 same isp Aug 18 03:59:45 ah right. cafe connection. Aug 18 03:59:53 Your at a cafe now ? Aug 18 04:00:01 yes Aug 18 04:00:08 took my n800 to florida last month... Aug 18 04:00:15 where in florida / Aug 18 04:00:20 used my notebook twice that week Aug 18 04:00:49 bal harbour Aug 18 04:00:59 Hmm Aug 18 04:01:05 I live in tampa Aug 18 04:01:08 not sure how close that is Aug 18 04:01:17 got my cwp safety cert :) Aug 18 04:01:34 whats that ? Aug 18 04:01:46 bal harbour is miami beach Aug 18 04:01:54 are you from florida? Aug 18 04:02:21 yeah Aug 18 04:02:26 concealed weapons permit... you need to take and pass a safety class before they issue you a permit Aug 18 04:02:31 from a place that nombody has heard of Aug 18 04:02:38 tampa? Aug 18 04:02:38 and nobody can spell Aug 18 04:02:41 no Aug 18 04:02:48 try to pronounce this :) Aug 18 04:02:51 thonotosassa Aug 18 04:03:16 too many acronyms... Aug 18 04:03:19 my brain hurts Aug 18 04:03:21 thoh-no-toe-sa-sa Aug 18 04:03:24 ? Aug 18 04:03:25 wow Aug 18 04:03:31 you did it Aug 18 04:03:38 not many people can say it ... let alone spell it Aug 18 04:04:01 have you written anythingfor the 770/800 Aug 18 04:04:06 hildon seems to be pretty easy to program for Aug 18 04:04:22 not yet Aug 18 04:04:45 are you a developer at all ? Aug 18 04:04:55 i had almost set up a dev environment, but my router went down, and i cant vpn home... Aug 18 04:05:03 not critical, but i cant play Aug 18 04:05:12 and i havent been home in a while Aug 18 04:05:51 so you don't live in nyc ? Aug 18 04:05:58 there are a couple of things i want to do Aug 18 04:06:03 i do Aug 18 04:06:13 Ohh cool Aug 18 04:06:22 I haven't written anything useful Aug 18 04:06:30 working on a opastebin app with django Aug 18 04:06:33 a python framework Aug 18 04:06:35 nothing huge Aug 18 04:06:35 there are couple maemo frontends that need doing Aug 18 04:06:47 no Aug 18 04:07:31 what is the name of the maemo interface Aug 18 04:07:33 hildon ? Aug 18 04:07:33 <_Monkey> hildon is, like, a tablet desktop framework, http://live.gnome.org/Hildon and a standard part of the maemo platform Aug 18 04:07:47 nice Aug 18 04:07:52 maemo ? Aug 18 04:07:52 <_Monkey> maemo is, like, at maemo.org or Open Source Software Aug 18 04:08:00 your an idiot ? Aug 18 04:08:09 ohh...don't know the answer to that one huh ? Aug 18 04:08:11 _Monkey, idiot ? Aug 18 04:08:11 <_Monkey> i haven't a clue, luria Aug 18 04:08:15 nice Aug 18 04:08:22 _Monkey, linux ? Aug 18 04:08:22 <_Monkey> linux is a free kernel thats inside most open source operating systems today and its a core technology for Maemo Aug 18 04:08:27 _Monkey, python ? Aug 18 04:08:28 <_Monkey> python is at pymaemo.garage.maemo.org! Aug 18 04:08:32 ohh Aug 18 04:08:34 a python port Aug 18 04:08:40 oh yeah Aug 18 04:08:41 _Monkey, ruby ? Aug 18 04:08:41 <_Monkey> ekim|irc: bugger all, i dunno Aug 18 04:08:44 :( Aug 18 04:08:49 no rails then Aug 18 04:08:51 yes there is RoR Aug 18 04:08:54 Ohh Aug 18 04:09:10 remember we were talking about metasploit Aug 18 04:09:15 Yeah ? Aug 18 04:09:18 is that written in ruby ? Aug 18 04:09:23 yes, the web interface works Aug 18 04:09:28 Ohh Aug 18 04:09:31 that we didnt metion Aug 18 04:09:34 I haven't playeed with it in like a year Aug 18 04:10:02 how does task switching work on the 770 Aug 18 04:10:06 can I run more then omne app at a time Aug 18 04:10:11 yes Aug 18 04:10:16 Like be coding my app in vim ... then preview it in opera Aug 18 04:10:24 its not hard, Aug 18 04:10:37 youll see :-) Aug 18 04:11:04 i want to try pyro on n800 python later Aug 18 04:11:09 or rather ipython Aug 18 04:11:34 that would be like having a hacking shell Aug 18 04:11:39 pyro Aug 18 04:11:43 isng that the firefox thing Aug 18 04:11:51 like ... acrive desktop done right Aug 18 04:11:54 *active Aug 18 04:11:54 _Monkey, pyro ? Aug 18 04:11:55 <_Monkey> i think pyro is short for PYthon Remote Objects. It is an advanced and powerful Distributed Object Technology system written entirely in Python. Aug 18 04:11:58 or something like that Aug 18 04:11:59 Ohh Aug 18 04:12:05 I must be thiking of something else Aug 18 04:12:31 Ohh Aug 18 04:12:33 worse, there a like five python libs that are called pyro Aug 18 04:12:42 I was actually thiking of this Aug 18 04:12:42 http://www.pyrodesktop.org/ Aug 18 04:14:26 oh god Aug 18 04:14:34 where ! Aug 18 04:14:44 not on a mozilla desktop Aug 18 04:15:34 wow Aug 18 04:15:53 what happened Aug 18 04:15:57 netsplit ? Aug 18 04:15:58 wow Aug 18 04:16:02 a net split Aug 18 04:16:10 definately netsplit Aug 18 04:16:11 i didnt think those happened anymore Aug 18 04:16:11 O yeah Aug 18 04:16:12 I had one happen a few weeks ago Aug 18 04:16:12 it like efnet c. 1994 Aug 18 04:16:12 Looks like kubrick burped :) Aug 18 04:16:21 quick, split ops! Aug 18 04:16:29 do what ? Aug 18 04:16:43 old channel hacking technique? Aug 18 04:16:55 Hmm ? Aug 18 04:17:04 ok, it worked like this Aug 18 04:17:14 you see a split Aug 18 04:17:30 get on the smaller side, or a single server that was split Aug 18 04:17:55 join a "new" channel with the same name of the channel where you want ops Aug 18 04:18:03 Ohh nice Aug 18 04:18:17 kick on the resync before you lose ops Aug 18 04:18:20 because the channel doesn't exist on that server Aug 18 04:18:25 yet Aug 18 04:18:28 right Aug 18 04:18:44 Im coming kind alate on the irc scene :) Aug 18 04:19:04 i dropped out c. 1998-9 Aug 18 04:19:18 this is the only ircing ive done since Aug 18 04:20:26 dalnet is still somewhat "new" to me :-) Aug 18 04:20:39 I just joined a few days ago :0 Aug 18 04:20:43 their nickserv bugs me Aug 18 04:20:48 thet do an email loop Aug 18 04:21:03 I dont know any other irc network that does that Aug 18 04:21:20 thats what was "new" Aug 18 04:21:29 all the services Aug 18 04:21:58 brb Aug 18 04:22:30 cool Aug 18 04:24:19 rp-pppoe on n800 ? Aug 18 04:24:33 how compiling rp-pppoe for n800 ? Aug 18 04:25:19 Sorry Aug 18 04:25:33 I don't have a 770 , nor do I know what rp-pppoe is Aug 18 04:25:34 :) Aug 18 04:25:43 I should have mine by next week though :) Aug 18 04:25:55 I assume pppoe as in DSL internet right ? Aug 18 04:26:10 Point to Point Protocol Over Ethernet ? Aug 18 04:26:46 yes Aug 18 04:27:54 Why would you need that on the 770 Aug 18 04:27:56 which uses wifi Aug 18 04:28:01 or 800 for that matter Aug 18 04:31:09 i wish there were a tiny ap the size of a rj-45 connector Aug 18 04:31:37 iow, plugin to a ethernet network, you can use an IT Aug 18 04:32:08 maybe battery powered and/or PoE Aug 18 04:37:19 O hey Luria ...your back Aug 18 04:37:23 Umm... Aug 18 04:37:28 back Aug 18 04:37:33 what is the gui for the 770 called ? Aug 18 04:37:41 hildon? Aug 18 04:37:41 <_Monkey> well, hildon is a tablet desktop framework, http://live.gnome.org/Hildon and a standard part of the maemo platform Aug 18 04:37:49 is it hildon Aug 18 04:37:57 I know hildon is the library for writing maemo compatible apps Aug 18 04:38:02 or at least gui framework Aug 18 04:38:16 but what is the task switching/app launching part Aug 18 04:38:26 the actual user interface Aug 18 04:38:43 osso? Aug 18 04:38:50 maybe Aug 18 04:39:12 has anyone been able to replace that Aug 18 04:39:20 maybe run fluxboxy on it or something Aug 18 04:39:26 just because you can I guess :) Aug 18 04:39:36 hmmm Aug 18 04:40:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo Aug 18 04:41:16 it has the stack "diagram" Aug 18 04:42:27 Huh ? Aug 18 04:42:43 the maemo "stack" Aug 18 04:42:46 I get it Aug 18 04:42:52 look at the wikipedia page Aug 18 04:42:53 ok Aug 18 04:42:55 but you didnt answer my other question Aug 18 04:43:01 oh Aug 18 04:43:04 i dunno Aug 18 04:43:06 has anyone got fluxbox to work on it ? Aug 18 04:43:11 I guess there is not reall a point Aug 18 04:43:23 you cant right-click ... so it would be problamatic Aug 18 04:43:34 *problematic Aug 18 04:44:01 well, not really Aug 18 04:44:09 you could just load it and stil Aug 18 04:44:14 sit stil Aug 18 04:44:16 l Aug 18 04:44:18 :-) Aug 18 04:46:25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sh9VoEb93I Aug 18 04:46:26 wow...thats exciting Aug 18 04:46:36 Ohh nice Aug 18 04:47:05 How is he typing ? Aug 18 04:47:37 keyboard, i would guess Aug 18 04:47:48 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36941#post36941 Aug 18 04:47:51 are there any apps that run ONLY on the n800 besides camera specific apps ? Aug 18 04:48:26 skype Aug 18 04:48:30 microb, rtcomm Aug 18 04:48:41 (afaik on the last two) Aug 18 04:49:04 aww damn Aug 18 04:49:08 they have skype for the n800 Aug 18 04:49:11 aww come on Aug 18 04:49:14 but i dunno what will run on os2007 and not os2007he Aug 18 04:49:16 why doesn't it work on the 770 ? Aug 18 04:49:37 all i know is that there is no official release Aug 18 04:49:47 because only the poor own 770's - and the poor cant skype :( Aug 18 04:49:52 Whatever Aug 18 04:49:55 I am poor Aug 18 04:49:59 and I demand my skype Aug 18 04:50:05 Im sure somebody has done it Aug 18 04:50:07 ...that was in jest ;) i own a 770... Aug 18 04:50:12 i do not know if you put 2007he on your 770 and manually dpkg skype if it works Aug 18 04:50:18 heh, just picked it up a couple weeks back. havent put it to use too much thou. Aug 18 04:50:23 more interested in my HTPC ATM Aug 18 04:50:34 any "must have" apps you guys can suggest? Aug 18 04:50:34 yeah, dont use skype much Aug 18 04:50:45 oh dear Aug 18 04:50:48 not again Aug 18 04:51:05 thats the third time in 24 hours Aug 18 04:51:12 i need to write a page Aug 18 04:51:14 heh, if its that common a question....hows about putting a little page together? Aug 18 04:51:37 I bought it for the toy aspect of it - but would be nice to get some use out of it as well. Aug 18 04:51:52 How much ewas yours syosoft ? Aug 18 04:52:04 I bought it for 150 on amazon Aug 18 04:52:05 picked it up at buy.com Aug 18 04:52:09 yesterday... Aug 18 04:52:13 143 or something, somewhere around that. Aug 18 04:52:19 http://mg.pov.lt/770/reflash-n800.html Aug 18 04:52:27 but those are n800 debs Aug 18 04:52:27 is there a thumb keyboard for 770 ? Aug 18 04:52:42 virtual, yes Aug 18 04:52:49 right Aug 18 04:52:56 you guys use a screen protector? Aug 18 04:53:00 yes Aug 18 04:53:05 yes, yes Aug 18 04:53:06 i already scratched it :( damn dirty stylus Aug 18 04:53:19 with the original plastic? Aug 18 04:53:26 or the screen itself? Aug 18 04:53:41 hrm...is the original plastic on it so well you cant tell it's on it? Aug 18 04:53:45 cause the stylus will cut the original plastic screen Aug 18 04:53:52 because mine didnt seem to have anything on it. Aug 18 04:53:58 (on the n800 after two weeks) Aug 18 04:54:10 look carefully is all i can say Aug 18 04:54:28 yea, i'm guessing it's naked. Aug 18 04:54:33 only so much i can tell you; ive had an n800 since the end of june Aug 18 04:54:57 where can I buy a screen protector ? Aug 18 04:55:00 dont know a ton about the 770 Aug 18 04:55:05 one sec Aug 18 04:55:08 is it a standard sized screen ? Aug 18 04:55:23 i've seen a couple for 'em Aug 18 04:55:38 the one i plan on getting has a retail of $12.95 or something, cant remember the name of it now :) Aug 18 04:55:55 i bought these Aug 18 04:55:55 http://www.screenguardz.com/ Aug 18 04:56:03 thats probably what you mean Aug 18 04:56:03 I cant wait until I get my package :) Aug 18 04:56:09 probalby next friday :9 Aug 18 04:56:17 fairly cheap Aug 18 04:56:49 i think i was leaning torwards the ClearTouch Aug 18 04:56:56 not sure why, just was Aug 18 04:57:45 just a happy camper with those. cant tell you if it's better. Aug 18 04:57:51 coo Aug 18 04:57:56 there are a bunch of threads at itt about this Aug 18 04:58:22 what about flys landing on my monitor and looking creepy? any threads about that? Aug 18 04:58:36 they probably know you wont smack 'em there....the bastards... Aug 18 04:58:39 you'd have to search Aug 18 04:58:48 _Monkey, flys Aug 18 04:58:48 <_Monkey> Luria: i'm not following you... Aug 18 04:58:52 _Monkey, flys? Aug 18 04:58:52 <_Monkey> luria: bugger all, i dunno Aug 18 04:59:16 monkey? ;) quick on that tab are we? Aug 18 04:59:45 _Monkey, debian ? Aug 18 04:59:45 <_Monkey> debian is really easy to use, and I think the install that exists on the nokia devices are a lot more custom tailored for them than you think Aug 18 05:00:04 _Monkey, x11 ? Aug 18 05:00:05 <_Monkey> x11 is, like, not configured for the the opengl chip Aug 18 05:00:23 _Monkey, irc ? Aug 18 05:00:24 <_Monkey> somebody said irc was only a couple of days old for me Aug 18 05:00:30 heh Aug 18 05:00:45 it gets annoying quick, but never gets old Aug 18 05:01:08 bye guys Aug 18 05:01:12 * ekim|irc is going to sleep Aug 18 05:01:16 cya Aug 18 05:01:43 what about car mounting? Aug 18 05:01:54 any decent mounts for air vents in the dash? Aug 18 05:01:59 night Aug 18 05:02:10 you could look into the nav pack Aug 18 05:02:22 just generic windshield ones :( Aug 18 05:02:30 ah Aug 18 05:02:31 a bit tacky for my taste Aug 18 05:02:35 dunno then Aug 18 05:02:40 i understand Aug 18 05:03:09 anyone know anything about Puchi (the theme editor)? like maybe if it works with n800 themes? Aug 18 05:03:41 ok, so i totally want one of these: Aug 18 05:03:43 http://www.gd-itronix.com/index.cfm?page=Products:MR-1 Aug 18 05:04:07 screw maemo :-) Aug 18 05:04:18 what good is a 36" drop test... Aug 18 05:04:28 unless their target demo is little peoplel Aug 18 05:04:41 ask my friend who dropped his panasonic cf-m34 down a flight of stairs Aug 18 05:04:54 that sounds a bit further than 36" Aug 18 05:04:55 the thing was still running at the bottom Aug 18 05:05:05 he was glad i recommended it :-) Aug 18 05:05:12 whats the retail on that thing? Aug 18 05:05:44 4k Aug 18 05:05:51 to start Aug 18 05:05:54 figured it be far more than what you actually get Aug 18 05:06:05 i like tech pricing. rather funny Aug 18 05:06:29 cf-m34 is a tough toughbok http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/upgrade/1279251.html Aug 18 05:06:34 toughbook Aug 18 05:06:43 i love mine Aug 18 05:07:25 is it possible to recover from installing a broken theme on an n800? Aug 18 05:07:52 return it to the store as defective? ;) Aug 18 05:07:58 lol Aug 18 05:08:06 like, besides flashing Aug 18 05:08:18 please note that the screen held the bullet - it screwed up the keyboard... but didnt enter the cpu section of the notebook Aug 18 05:08:37 if i SSH in, is it possible to change the theme via some CLI tool? Aug 18 05:09:55 oh here we go Aug 18 05:10:16 http://www.mavromatic.com/images/PANASONIC-BULLETPROOF-TOUGH.jpg Aug 18 05:10:34 :) soo not consumer products Aug 18 05:10:46 cool nevertheless. Aug 18 05:10:53 Luria hope he got a working laptop out of all the publicity Aug 18 05:11:00 hehe Aug 18 05:11:13 he should wear a jacket made out of them Aug 18 05:11:29 the p3-400mhz/192mb models go for $200 on ebay Aug 18 05:11:53 p3-700/256 for about 300 Aug 18 05:13:00 i have a fujitsu p1510 which is about that size but lighter Aug 18 05:13:08 i'm not often being shot at so it works out Aug 18 05:13:28 http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4220415.html i like that :) Aug 18 05:14:13 right, but ive stuck the screen under a running faucet with no ill effect :-) Aug 18 05:14:38 got the backlit sealed membrane keyboad for it Aug 18 05:14:56 any benefits of windows media center that no nother soft for xp cant mimic ? Aug 18 05:15:00 add the fact that it has a proper serial port and its a hack of all trades Aug 18 05:15:11 i do wish i had an outdoor readable screen. my n800 needs one too Aug 18 05:15:25 yeah Aug 18 05:15:47 the second cf-m34 is the outdoors model - transflective and no microphone Aug 18 05:15:58 it is handy in a car Aug 18 05:16:24 better battery life too when you can turn the backlight off and still see Aug 18 05:16:25 just wish there were nice nav software for desktop linux Aug 18 05:17:10 anyone know if is there anything? Aug 18 05:17:22 not mapping software, navigation software Aug 18 05:18:00 emulated env running maemo mapper Aug 18 05:18:10 but seriously there is a gtk port of maemo mapper Aug 18 05:18:11 ummmm Aug 18 05:18:16 no Aug 18 05:18:26 maemo mapper is a fork of gpsdrivfe Aug 18 05:18:31 gpsdrive Aug 18 05:18:36 sorta Aug 18 05:18:50 then got rewritten for maemo Aug 18 05:18:52 gpsdrive has the worst UI i've ever seen Aug 18 05:19:01 hopefully he didn't use one line of code from it Aug 18 05:19:09 thats why it got rewritten Aug 18 05:20:01 i love the topo maps (only works in US though) Aug 18 05:30:24 here goes nothing... Aug 18 05:30:42 christ, what is wrong with this world when i am answering questions on #linux Aug 18 05:36:01 wow i like that fujitsu Aug 18 09:01:06 oh dear i think i broke my tablet and mmcs :-( Aug 18 09:01:48 took my tablet on holiday and it got a bit fruity when accepting cards, suddenly thought the card was read only then it thought it was corrupt Aug 18 09:01:55 now i can write to it Aug 18 09:02:05 if i try and unmount anything in the console and then remount it Aug 18 09:02:18 either by reinserting it or by doing /mount - i get the message that it is corrupt Aug 18 09:02:27 now my device isnt showing up when its plugged into my pc Aug 18 09:14:59 hi \o\ Aug 18 09:16:34 hi Aug 18 09:16:40 /o/ Aug 18 09:18:03 :D Aug 18 09:49:30 is canola good enough to play UPnP video? if so, does anyone know much about it? i'm trying to configure video viewing on my n800, from my fileserver here. it already has an install of ezlink ng on it. Aug 18 09:52:17 which player used for the mp3? Aug 18 09:52:21 (n800) Aug 18 10:08:58 hi Aug 18 10:09:27 does anybody else have problems with the device mode when os boots from mmc? Aug 18 10:37:33 the correct way to unmount my mmc is to do umount -l /media/mmc1 in xterm isnt it Aug 18 10:37:34 as root Aug 18 10:40:36 why -l ? Aug 18 10:41:43 whoop Aug 18 10:41:47 -l is not necessary Aug 18 10:41:59 i always get the message that its busy or in use Aug 18 10:42:57 i don't if i close all apps which use it Aug 18 10:43:51 hm Aug 18 10:43:53 i've seen that too Aug 18 10:44:06 nevertheless you're might use it with or without Aug 18 10:44:06 and there's no fuser command Aug 18 10:44:13 -'re ^^ Aug 18 10:46:18 why do you think there's no fuser? Aug 18 10:46:24 oh it worked this time Aug 18 10:46:42 no idea - i use it to check process owners of opened devices Aug 18 10:47:01 like cdrom when it won't eject Aug 18 10:47:18 i have it in /usr/bin Aug 18 10:47:49 Nokia770-49:~ it2006se here Aug 18 10:48:21 oh ok Aug 18 10:48:32 n800 since yesterday ^^ Aug 18 10:48:55 i didn't have a 770 before Aug 18 10:49:08 * pupnik notes this as another good reason to try out the new it2007he when it comes out Aug 18 10:49:40 Hurgh: how do you like the 800 so far? Aug 18 10:50:46 hm there are many interesting things i could use it for but it's not easy to set up Aug 18 10:51:16 avahi-daemon is broken so i can't install canola at the moment Aug 18 10:51:48 and the device mode doesn't work properly if you boot from mmc Aug 18 10:51:53 for me at least Aug 18 10:53:43 an hour ago i asked if anybody else had a problem Aug 18 10:54:10 some days ago somebody asked the question too Aug 18 10:54:18 but no answers :/ Aug 18 10:56:31 'device mode'? Aug 18 10:57:31 usb 2.0 high speed device mode? Aug 18 10:58:05 yes i think so Aug 18 10:58:07 oh connecting it to the PC via USB at all Aug 18 10:58:13 yes Aug 18 10:58:24 using the mmc as mass storage Aug 18 10:58:39 :/ Aug 18 10:58:44 works for me (on 770) Aug 18 10:58:57 lemme check Aug 18 10:58:57 with os on the mmc? Aug 18 10:59:48 1 Aug 18 11:00:15 works fine Aug 18 11:00:30 is your vfat partition on /dev/mmcblk0p1 ? Aug 18 11:00:37 yes Aug 18 11:00:47 7gb :) Aug 18 11:01:07 and 500mb ext2 on mmcblk0p2 Aug 18 11:02:02 sorry, i don't know what to do Aug 18 11:02:17 i think he would like to give the pc access to both partitions Aug 18 11:02:20 does dmesg output give any useful info? Aug 18 11:02:42 but that doesn't work for the second because he booted from that one Aug 18 11:02:59 and so he fails for mmc2 Aug 18 11:03:03 mmc1 works Aug 18 11:03:22 no useful messages Aug 18 11:04:21 i'll file a bug report Aug 18 11:04:36 but now i have to eat :) Aug 18 11:04:39 i don't know if that's a bug Aug 18 11:04:57 why not? Aug 18 11:04:57 afaik the usb automount is designed only for the first partition Aug 18 11:05:42 if i boot from flash in device mode i can mount both partitions Aug 18 11:06:08 you can't mount the root partition in use Aug 18 11:06:29 of course Aug 18 11:06:39 and i think that's the problem Aug 18 11:07:14 it's not designed to allow that Aug 18 11:08:00 unless i have misunderstood, but i don't think i have Aug 18 11:08:07 i only want to access the vfat partition :'( Aug 18 11:08:12 ^^ Aug 18 11:08:15 oh Aug 18 11:09:44 Is this correct?: you boot from 2nd partition on mmc1, and want to access first vfat partition on mmc2? Aug 18 11:10:05 no both mmc2 Aug 18 11:10:17 mmc1 is accessible Aug 18 11:10:22 ok Aug 18 11:32:52 pupnik: i have kismet working :) Aug 18 11:33:12 and it's stable. Aug 18 11:33:58 kismet? Aug 18 11:33:58 <_Monkey> i think kismet is http://eko.one.pl/maemo mistral user or http://kismetwireless.net/code/kismet-svn-devel-n800.deb but don't complain if it doesn't work Aug 18 11:34:06 yup. Aug 18 11:34:09 what did you have to do? Aug 18 11:34:13 that's what you were helping me with yesterday. Aug 18 11:34:24 i was checking _monkey's information Aug 18 11:34:29 upgrade to latest OS. switch off WLAN scanning. Aug 18 11:34:36 and extend the idle times. Aug 18 11:34:56 it's *okay*, but it still leaves the wireless card unhappy when it quits Aug 18 11:35:07 but i left it sitting and running for > 10 minutes, and it was still grabbing packets. Aug 18 11:35:11 interesting - is there a web page / forum or wiki with info on how to do this? Aug 18 11:35:12 nice Aug 18 11:35:33 we shouls get that howto online somewhere Aug 18 11:35:47 all the info was on internettablettalk, it's jsut in 18 gajillion separate threads :) Aug 18 11:36:29 dragorn will also want to know this . he promised to have a script for it if i gave him the user-space parts. we're still SOL on the driver for the moment though. Aug 18 11:37:44 maemo.org wiki is down: http://maemo.org/community/indexb Aug 18 11:37:58 'k Aug 18 11:38:05 well if you can help pull the info together i guess internettablettalk is the only place Aug 18 11:38:17 yeah Aug 18 11:38:23 if there's a good thread for it, we can add it to monkey Aug 18 11:38:34 monkey can help search engines also to find the good info Aug 18 11:38:44 i'll giv ethe wiki a few hours, then check it again, and add it there, teach monkey about that instead. Aug 18 11:39:57 ok Aug 18 11:40:02 thanks Aug 18 11:40:50 http://test.maemo.org/maemowiki/TitleIndex#K Aug 18 11:47:09 aloha sbaturzio :) Aug 18 11:47:35 pupnik: ciao Aug 18 11:53:38 hi Aug 18 11:57:57 moo Aug 18 11:58:04 if i install bash on my n800, it won't replace ash, right? Aug 18 11:58:26 it will just let me run it if i want? Aug 18 11:58:34 dunno Aug 18 11:58:39 is there anything different about mmc-mobile cards? Aug 18 11:58:42 :/ Aug 18 11:58:50 my generic mmc reader cant seem to read it Aug 18 11:58:55 bash might symlink to /bin/sh or something Aug 18 11:59:02 actualy i think its my mac Aug 18 11:59:17 ls -l /bin/ash Aug 18 11:59:18 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 Jul 29 12:13 /bin/ash -> busybox Aug 18 11:59:20 it worked fine in windows Aug 18 11:59:36 on the zaurus, installing bash replaced busybox, which basically meant it was fl sh time :/ Aug 18 11:59:59 *flash time Aug 18 12:00:16 i'm feeling lucky Aug 18 12:00:31 lol Aug 18 12:00:41 bash: Depends: base-files (>= 2.1.12) but it is not going to be installed Aug 18 12:01:14 hmm not sure i want to install bash now Aug 18 12:01:25 lol Aug 18 12:03:02 ack! Aug 18 12:03:23 The following packages will be REMOVED: Aug 18 12:03:40 apt-https bluez-utils busybox chavo codelockui dnsmasq docpurge Aug 18 12:03:53 and about 30 other lines including... about every package on my system Aug 18 12:04:07 i'd say thats a no Aug 18 12:04:36 heheh Aug 18 12:04:51 but want bash :( sad Aug 18 12:07:46 i could compile it and see if the binary runs standalone Aug 18 12:10:42 that would be really awesome, actually... Aug 18 12:10:54 though i think my friend here has a scratchbox setup Aug 18 12:11:03 so i could prolly figure it out too Aug 18 12:11:09 though i'm new to n800 dev stuff Aug 18 12:11:22 was working on Zaurus stuff until like last week :/ Aug 18 12:11:33 just got my n800 like 4 days ago Aug 18 12:11:49 been experimenting with a2dp+video mostly Aug 18 12:13:54 rm_you do you boot your os from mmc? Aug 18 12:15:20 im going to install linux on a vm on my macbook and play with creating a full screen clock application Aug 18 12:17:04 Hurgh: no Aug 18 12:17:18 Hurgh: didnt even know you could do that on the n800 :P Aug 18 12:17:18 ok Aug 18 12:17:26 I did on my zaurus though... :P Aug 18 12:17:38 i did it Aug 18 12:18:08 on an n800? or a zaurus? :P Aug 18 12:18:14 n800 Aug 18 12:18:23 got it yesterday ^^ Aug 18 12:18:24 lol, crazy Aug 18 12:19:04 but now i cannot access the mmc as mass-storage via usb Aug 18 12:19:11 :( Aug 18 12:19:48 i'm looking for others who have the same problem Aug 18 12:20:14 well it makes sense Aug 18 12:20:42 when it switches to usb mass storage mode, it unmounts the cards on the n800... it cant unmount the root filesystem while its in use... :/ Aug 18 12:21:29 it should only mount the first partition and that's a normal fat32 Aug 18 12:21:40 hm Aug 18 12:21:47 the second one is an ext2 as root Aug 18 12:21:55 ah you made your SD have multiple partitions? Aug 18 12:22:02 yes Aug 18 12:22:03 hrm Aug 18 12:22:05 dunno the Aug 18 12:22:09 *then Aug 18 12:22:09 i followed the wiki Aug 18 12:22:19 list the repositories for maemo mappers? Aug 18 13:13:14 Optimised alpha blending on arm: (psx) http://gpsp-dev.blogspot.com/2007/04/arm-alpha-blending-pass.html Aug 18 13:24:29 man psx4all loads about 20 times faster than pcsx Aug 18 13:29:30 Virtio's VPOM-3430 Virtual Platform starts at $2,488 USD for a single user license and is available immediately. Aug 18 13:38:50 3420 and 3210 also look intriguing Aug 18 13:39:03 hello Aug 18 13:39:04 <_Monkey> bonjour, fork_ Aug 18 13:39:24 looks like core might be 2-3x faster than 1136js Aug 18 13:39:32 hi Aug 18 13:39:32 <_Monkey> bonjour, pupnik_ Aug 18 13:58:31 * pupnik_ snuffles comp.sys.arm Aug 18 13:59:49 im getting that message saying that /media/mmc1 is busy when trying to umount Aug 18 13:59:57 should i just add -l and then take it out? Aug 18 14:07:44 anyone any ideas why an mmc mobile card wont work in any os through an mmc card reader Aug 18 14:07:49 whereas an rsmmc does Aug 18 14:17:54 don't have a reader here sorry Aug 18 14:34:31 amr have you tested it with other readers which definitely understand mmc 4.0? Aug 18 14:37:29 I need a drink, jack daniels preferably Aug 18 14:40:32 anybody here with a n800 with os booting from mmc/sd? Aug 18 14:48:25 duh. silly me. it's a bluetooth card reader I need Aug 18 14:50:26 (I've been looking for a bluetoothlike to usb storage thing without luck) Aug 18 15:04:23 but hmm - does such a thing exist? Aug 18 15:05:39 interesting idea Aug 18 15:07:20 libasound2? Aug 18 15:07:21 <_Monkey> libasound2 is, like, binaries compiled under gregale at http://pupnik.de/ libasound2-dev_1.0.8-3_armel.deb libasound2-plugins_1.0.8-3_armel.deb libasound2_1.0.8-3_armel.deb Aug 18 15:09:20 there are some things, but it's not clear whether it's the thing i want or only an usb card reader with built in bluetooth dongle. Aug 18 15:55:14 cyclone 68k core with notes http://notaz.gp2x.de/cyclone.php (hatari, uae, POSE, genesis... ) Aug 18 16:12:50 how do I transfer a route I have on Google Maps to Maemo Mapper? Aug 18 16:44:43 good question Tu13es Aug 18 16:45:26 i can't seem to get a route working on Maemo mapper either Aug 18 16:48:17 can you move the route in Google Earth? Aug 18 16:48:22 in GMaps you can pick up the line and drag it Aug 18 16:49:59 you probably can't drag it all the way to maemo mapper though Aug 18 16:50:14 :P Aug 18 16:50:55 ? Aug 18 16:51:14 * sp3000 is being silly, hence the :P Aug 18 16:55:30 hello, i'm looking for a wiki under n800 Aug 18 16:56:19 hola Aug 18 16:56:22 new n800 user Aug 18 16:56:32 hola Aug 18 16:56:35 valkommen Aug 18 16:57:22 i crash it quite a bit mroe than I would expect Aug 18 16:57:44 so I wanna figur eout why, but found /var/log emtpy 8) Aug 18 16:58:19 I also need to do some debugging of my wireless link Aug 18 16:58:27 kreig: what crashed? Aug 18 16:58:30 the n800? Aug 18 16:58:30 <_Monkey> the n800 is probably much better than a desk phone :-) Aug 18 16:58:32 because it just can't hold it for more than a few minutes and then it will just lock up and reset Aug 18 16:58:44 so I was looking for iwconfig, and no luck Aug 18 16:58:52 PS, I have root by sshing to root@localhost Aug 18 16:59:15 krieg: if your wireless causes the n800 to reset, try replacing your router? Aug 18 16:59:23 that's definitely not normal Aug 18 16:59:34 s/krieg/kreig/ Aug 18 16:59:38 trevarthan: well, I have considered that, but I would poop on this thing if a remote router reset it Aug 18 16:59:58 are you running the latest firmware? Aug 18 17:00:03 (on the n800) Aug 18 17:00:05 yes, 4.2007... Aug 18 17:00:20 but, I also understand that making it not blow up may take some hackering Aug 18 17:00:37 my neighbor has one and doesn't seem to have this issue Aug 18 17:00:39 kreig: no, it really shouldn't. mine is rock solid. Aug 18 17:00:50 he already has a devel environment setup Aug 18 17:01:02 kreig: do you have another wireless network you can test with? just to rule out it being a b0rked router? Aug 18 17:01:06 yah, I played with his n800 for awhile and didn't have the problem on his ten Aug 18 17:01:22 trevarthan: yah, I can find a bar to test it at, and have some testing beers too Aug 18 17:01:30 lol Aug 18 17:01:44 yeah, try that. if it still crashes, get it replaced under warranty. Aug 18 17:01:48 I figure if it still blows up, then I got a bum machine, because I have several friends with them and they haven't mentioned this Aug 18 17:01:58 if it doesn't blow up, get the router replaced. Aug 18 17:02:09 oh man, that is TWO routers on this LAN that need replacement Aug 18 17:02:27 well, don't jump to conclusions yet. try it on another network first. Aug 18 17:02:32 exactly Aug 18 17:02:32 they are old, cheap linksys crap Aug 18 17:02:44 hehe Aug 18 17:03:16 so, is ther ea equiv to iwconfig? Aug 18 17:03:44 * k8 O_O Aug 18 17:03:49 nice, about 300 ml of orange juice on my compaq keyboard and it still works Aug 18 17:04:08 i just *poured* it out... :/ Aug 18 17:04:33 something is wacky here Aug 18 17:04:40 kreig: I don't know regarding iwconfig. I've never needed it. The GUI does a really good job. Aug 18 17:04:41 I can ping the router, but can't connect to it's web interface Aug 18 17:04:47 yeah ifconfig works Aug 18 17:05:00 well ifconfig doesn't tell me nifty things about the wireless connection Aug 18 17:05:15 kreig: can't you get that from the control panel? Aug 18 17:05:27 trevarthan: nope Aug 18 17:05:29 i don't have iwconfig on the 770 though Aug 18 17:07:17 hmmm Aug 18 17:07:24 I think I might try to reflash it Aug 18 17:07:24 that's wireless-tools Aug 18 17:07:31 opera is sucking Aug 18 17:07:42 I can ping the shit, but operate is crapping it's pants Aug 18 17:08:31 kreig: try installing microb Aug 18 17:08:31 or it could be that the router lameness is letting ICMP packets thru but dropping others Aug 18 17:08:53 yes that was one of the first things i downloaded Aug 18 17:08:56 microb works better than Opera for some sites (though overall I find it slower and buggier) Aug 18 17:09:33 microb crashes like crazy on ITT. so annoying. Aug 18 17:09:46 oO Aug 18 17:09:53 i had no crash so far Aug 18 17:12:50 bewm, another crash Aug 18 17:13:41 orakle: is wireless-tools the name of the package? Aug 18 17:13:50 after i installed rtcomm, contacts default to showing avatars. so I know how to switch "contacts" to list view... but now "speed contacts" is stuck in avatar display and takea up too much space on the desktop. anyone know if i can change the speed contacts display back to the old style? Aug 18 17:14:07 ok, it crashes, and then it reboots, and then it gets to the little hands touching splash screen and reboots again and then it is fine Aug 18 17:15:11 then it locks up when I launch x-terminal Aug 18 17:15:13 hmm Aug 18 17:15:20 I'm getting suspicious that I got a bad unit Aug 18 17:15:38 I'm gonna reflash it Aug 18 17:15:45 nuke it all and see what happens Aug 18 17:16:31 yes reflash and test on another wlan if possible Aug 18 17:17:23 i want the n800 luv Aug 18 17:17:26 i know it is there Aug 18 17:17:55 my goal is to right a program to crash my pals iPhone when we are on the same wlan Aug 18 17:18:07 so far, it looks like I'm in trouble 8) Aug 18 17:18:13 hi there Aug 18 17:18:13 <_Monkey> hi, Silicium Aug 18 17:18:25 are there problems with the repositorys? Aug 18 17:18:46 hi Silicium Aug 18 17:18:49 hi Aug 18 17:18:53 Silicium, _Monkey is a bot Aug 18 17:18:57 trying installing canola? Aug 18 17:19:03 nope Aug 18 17:19:05 xterm Aug 18 17:19:11 Silicium, and which repositories, n800 or 770? Aug 18 17:19:16 n800 Aug 18 17:19:17 mora Aug 18 17:19:19 b Aug 18 17:19:46 Silicium, I am not too sure about OS2007's repos... but you might need some GPG keys Aug 18 17:19:52 Silicium, make sure to chang ethe COmponents field too, form user to free non-free Aug 18 17:20:14 I got a gpg error on the nokia repo as well Aug 18 17:20:18 i have the problem since yesterday Aug 18 17:20:21 the 3rd party one had a bad signature Aug 18 17:20:34 it was yesterday when I tried it for the first time Aug 18 17:20:37 the gpg error is imho only a warning Aug 18 17:20:44 when I get a bad signature, I just go through the repos with a browser and download Aug 18 17:21:00 hmm, ok Aug 18 17:21:16 are there a new gpg key available? Aug 18 17:27:47 can ou flash this thing from linux? Aug 18 17:31:37 why does the scifi network suck? Aug 18 17:32:08 kreig of course ^^ Aug 18 17:33:18 ok, flashed it and still it is fucky Aug 18 17:33:52 i pack it up, and head towards Nokia store and try it on a different wlan on the way there Aug 18 17:34:00 my wlan is definetly old and abnormal Aug 18 17:34:18 for instance, the DHCP server is a different router than the wiresless one Aug 18 17:34:25 and so on... Aug 18 17:55:04 wooo Aug 18 17:55:07 well, it's a bum unit Aug 18 17:55:20 I went ot the public library and it lockedup and went kaplooey Aug 18 17:55:25 that is to wlan's Aug 18 17:55:27 two Aug 18 17:56:08 luckily I live near the flagship Nokia store here in Chicago Aug 18 17:56:14 let's go see how their customer service is Aug 18 17:59:18 well, its good in nyc Aug 18 18:01:46 Lo, I'm getting an N800 soon but I need to know something from the horses mouth Aug 18 18:02:08 I used to have Jornada 928, a device that also has a texas instruments processor Aug 18 18:02:19 Is the N800 with its OMAP 300mhz a little on the slow side? at all? Aug 18 18:03:05 My Jornada is now 5 years old! and the texas CPU it has isn't that much different than the N800's Aug 18 18:03:12 it's much better than the n770, but i guess a little more juice wouldn't hurt Aug 18 18:04:17 I'm getting a new phone on monday on contract with a 3G tarrif for data use (need a new phone that has bluetooth for the N800) - but I'm worried that the features of the nokia phone will be ultimately similar to the N800 :S Aug 18 18:04:53 And I can't find any Linux PDA/Phones anywhere :( unless you want a hack jobbed XDA Aug 18 18:05:04 get the most basic 3g+bt phone if you're also getting a tablet Aug 18 18:05:19 thats a tall order Aug 18 18:05:34 there's the neo1973 (openmoko) but afaik it's still beta Aug 18 18:05:41 samsung a717 Aug 18 18:05:50 or 727 Aug 18 18:06:13 or mot razr v3xx Aug 18 18:06:16 A colour screen, bluetooth, 3G phone that doesn't do much else than call and text - they always have mp3 playback, and cameras, and all sorts of crap Aug 18 18:06:55 Luria: both of those are phones, not what I'd call PDA/Phones Aug 18 18:07:09 oh Aug 18 18:07:48 none are smart phones. which is great if you have an n800 Aug 18 18:08:19 don't suppose theres word about the next nokia linux device being a PDA/Phone is there? Aug 18 18:08:31 I'd put up with my Zaurus a little longer if that was the case Aug 18 18:09:06 god, i hope not Aug 18 18:09:46 anyone tried a Nokia E65 with a N800 Aug 18 18:09:48 unlikely you'll see a phone maemo device too soon.. Aug 18 18:09:53 yeah, it would be awful Aug 18 18:09:59 e65 should work brilliantly with n800.. Aug 18 18:10:05 Cyorxamp: probably. did you check ITT? Aug 18 18:10:10 it's not a bad phone otherwise either Aug 18 18:10:12 _Monkey: ITT? Aug 18 18:10:12 <_Monkey> ITT is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums Aug 18 18:10:25 I don't mind the whole phone and a pda thing - when the phone isn't trying to double up the feature set of the PDA Aug 18 18:11:02 just don't use the featuers if you don't care.. buying a device thats intentionally limited never made that much sense to me especially if the features were just a bit of software.. Aug 18 18:11:28 rawr, ok theres on thing that annoys me then Aug 18 18:11:30 i have no use for PDA's, my phone's (nokia 6021, really basic and old) calendar is enough for me. I don't use outlook or another calendar on the pc, so no sync trouble :P Aug 18 18:11:33 deciding to not buy a phone that has the right size, featureset etc just because it has a smartphone os would be stupid Aug 18 18:11:46 it's fine that I can say... E65 for casual 'going out'-ness with the camera and shit and no pda Aug 18 18:11:53 But then I'd be annoyed theres no OGG playback! Aug 18 18:11:57 ... Aug 18 18:12:01 just get oggplay? Aug 18 18:12:08 on a E65? Aug 18 18:12:21 s60 3rd ed Aug 18 18:12:28 it's symbian Aug 18 18:12:29 eh? Aug 18 18:12:44 so I can play ogg on the E65? Aug 18 18:12:55 http://symbianoggplay.sourceforge.net/S60V3.html should work on it too Aug 18 18:12:59 yes Aug 18 18:13:04 cool :P Aug 18 18:13:16 see now you're making me think along the lines of 'The Phone and the Operating System' Aug 18 18:13:18 ABHABH!HB!SWhb1] Aug 18 18:13:26 It's not computer! the N800 is! Aug 18 18:13:56 of couse nobody is forcing you to install any 3rd party software on it if you don't want.. Aug 18 18:14:00 * Cyorxamp goes into coma Aug 18 18:14:08 i'd still prefer s60 due to multitasking etc over a normal "featurephone" Aug 18 18:16:33 i get the pda phone. i just think its dubious to combine mobility with the need to be near an outlet ;-) hence my n800+bt internet approach Aug 18 18:16:54 Don't suppose maemo will come out for any other existing nokia (now symbian powered) devices ? Aug 18 18:19:14 Ok ok ok ok ok.... nevermind that Aug 18 18:19:34 Cyorxamp, yeah, maemo is the community Aug 18 18:19:52 and the community that drives the next release of the OS Aug 18 18:20:06 Cyorxamp, but symbian based... I highly doubt that Aug 18 18:20:07 E65 + N800 - fair enough... in terms of the information the E65 can stores (calanders, contacts, pictures, videos, etc etc...) can it sync nicely with the N800 ? Aug 18 18:20:36 Some kind of odd version of gnokii for N800 ? :P Aug 18 18:20:43 Cyorxamp, tablets work fine enough without a Symbian based OS. Aug 18 18:21:13 what are you on about? Aug 18 18:21:19 I think if Nokia is smart (which they usually are except that last blunder of a phone they just released), they will stick with an open source OS Aug 18 18:21:54 Cyorxamp, are you referring to phones or tablets? Aug 18 18:21:59 that will clear things up Aug 18 18:22:07 > E65 + N800 - fair enough... in terms of the information the E65 can stores (calanders, contacts, pictures, videos, etc etc...) can it sync nicely with the N800 ? Aug 18 18:22:22 I'm very clearly on about the E65 and N800 syncing Aug 18 18:23:01 you can browse pics/videos/files on the phone from the n800, but there won't be any syncing Aug 18 18:23:14 totally useless! Aug 18 18:23:31 Has gnokii been added to the repo's ? Aug 18 18:23:38 Cyorxamp, I am not sure about the E65, but does it have BT? Aug 18 18:23:55 yeah erstazi it does, or it'd be a poor choice Aug 18 18:24:00 there's a project in the garage that uses gnokii. not sure about the name Aug 18 18:24:03 of course it has.. Aug 18 18:24:05 dialer? or something? Aug 18 18:24:14 http://forum.nokia.com/devices/E65 Aug 18 18:24:58 bugger it, I'm not getting an E65 - even if its free when i go on contract, it'll annoy the hell out of me Aug 18 18:25:00 ugh I hate when svn does this Aug 18 18:25:41 Cyorxamp: this project has, and uses, gnokii: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=31 Aug 18 18:26:10 oh new ukmp release. neat. Aug 18 18:26:35 disq, the OS does have a proper packagement management doesn't it ? - i.e. apt-get whatever I want on the go via 3G Aug 18 18:26:49 I'm getting this because I love my debian :P Aug 18 18:27:01 yeah but you can't install regular debian packages Aug 18 18:27:06 they have to be compiled for armel (not arm) Aug 18 18:27:14 yeah I realise that Aug 18 18:27:16 Cyorxamp, yeah, you have to make sure its for the ARM(el) architecture Aug 18 18:27:22 yes thank you! Aug 18 18:27:23 but! Aug 18 18:27:42 jees, I've been using PDA's that are ARM and also a linux Zaurus for ages - I get the diff! Aug 18 18:27:43 get this, you can grab the source and package it yourself for armel arch through scratchbox Aug 18 18:28:10 Cyorxamp, i hope someone told you, you need to recompile debs for armel. Aug 18 18:28:11 and the documentation for porting is very well formed compared to others out there Aug 18 18:28:17 Luria, heh Aug 18 18:28:19 So, when bought - it'll have a link to the maemo repo URL already in it>? Aug 18 18:28:42 Cyorxamp, yes, there are even people's sources.list they posted in the wiki or in forums like ITT Aug 18 18:28:48 actually the nokia tablets use gentoo and you need to compile everything Aug 18 18:28:54 pupnik, heh Aug 18 18:28:56 and presumably some variation of synaptic to stop you from hitting terminal all the time Aug 18 18:28:56 * pupnik ducks Aug 18 18:29:12 that would be a distro that would be fun to see ran on a nokia Aug 18 18:29:36 not run... crawl Aug 18 18:30:05 heh Aug 18 18:30:05 Cyorxamp: there's the "application manager" which basically does apt-get update and invokes apt/dpkg to install stuff on user's request. you can manage the sources.list from there too, etc. Aug 18 18:30:10 how many people here are zaurus refugees ? Aug 18 18:30:20 * Cyorxamp raises hand Aug 18 18:30:32 the app manager blows. Aug 18 18:30:50 I'm gonna turn my zaurus into an Alarm Clock :P Aug 18 18:30:53 I find just using xterm and apt-get update or apt-get install foo works fine as well Aug 18 18:30:57 i had a 5600? you? Aug 18 18:31:05 I've still got a 5500 Aug 18 18:31:22 I think my sources.list is very up to date with the different repos that are *working* for OS2006 Aug 18 18:31:30 my 5600 wont take a charge Aug 18 18:31:43 Luria the OZ team have really fucked things up tho - and the repositories are totally broken Aug 18 18:31:49 time to jump ship Aug 18 18:32:15 do i anounce a public away mesage? Aug 18 18:32:34 http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_8910i-370.php Aug 18 18:32:35 amr: not yet Aug 18 18:32:40 oh good Aug 18 18:32:43 it looks nice, theres no silly camera, its bluetooth Aug 18 18:32:52 new client and it told me it had set me away Aug 18 18:32:53 damnit no 3G Aug 18 18:32:54 i thought about moving to a 1000 or a 3200, but the nokia seemed wiser. i do miss the keyboard though. Aug 18 18:33:13 i love the thinkoutside stowaway - fits in the other pocket Aug 18 18:33:31 i got my keys and phone in the other pocket Aug 18 18:34:02 yeah... i have the think outside (now igo ultra slim) Aug 18 18:34:21 honestly, when I first got my nokia a while back, I thought I was going to break it instantly (especially with kids and travelling) Aug 18 18:34:23 my "kit" is: Aug 18 18:35:47 n800, iblue 757 pro, ultra slim, retractable usb; all in a civilian labs bag. Aug 18 18:36:11 nice Aug 18 18:36:25 is N800 micro or mini SD I forget Aug 18 18:36:34 stupid card manufacturers! Aug 18 18:36:35 iblue 757 pro is a bt keyboard right? Aug 18 18:36:36 only this left is a solar panel and a replacement for my class 4 edge phone. Aug 18 18:37:04 iblue 757 pro is a solar gps Aug 18 18:37:38 Cyorxamp: two full-size sd slots Aug 18 18:37:44 Cyorxamp, its normal sd(hc) Aug 18 18:38:11 nice Luria Aug 18 18:38:41 when i said ultra slim, i meant an igo ultra slim model bt kybd Aug 18 18:38:43 Luria, I think that might be my next investment is gps Aug 18 18:39:06 Luria, if you don't mind me asking, how much was the igo keyboard? Aug 18 18:39:27 which is should be using, 'cause the thumb board makes me tired Aug 18 18:39:28 Wow I can only fine ONE (1, one, uno, I) Nokia phone without camera, but with 3G and BT Aug 18 18:39:39 How does a E60 + N800 sound? Aug 18 18:39:53 damnit it's got symbian crap! Aug 18 18:39:54 Cyorxamp, I know some who join here use that combo Aug 18 18:40:18 but I do not know about sharing files Aug 18 18:40:47 Card slot: RS-DV-MMC, hotswap Aug 18 18:40:58 bleh!? not mini/normal/micro SD ? Aug 18 18:41:09 I know SD is based on MMC - but thats not clear Aug 18 18:41:16 not at all. it used to be think outside. the model (with the new name) still goes for $100 (reputable nyc b&m store) Aug 18 18:41:59 Cyorxamp, last I knew, n800 can take a mmc/rs-mmc card Aug 18 18:42:34 ive seen it for much more on line. but also less - about 70 is the best ive seen. Aug 18 18:44:06 it ain't perfect - the number row is a trade off and the question mark on the up arrow is problematic for irc Aug 18 18:44:18 abhGh gdh chjejip efo[qwd0eriu w Aug 18 18:44:25 oops Aug 18 18:45:05 (which is why you will sometimes see me repeat a sentence from minutes before and then immediately ask a question ;-) Aug 18 18:45:46 what? forgot this isnt #klingon? Aug 18 18:46:05 Ka'Pla! Aug 18 18:47:10 No one in that channel :P Aug 18 18:47:20 So disappointing ! Aug 18 18:48:13 I think I might let O2 give me one of these horrid E65 phones, does anyone know if the media player (or any others you know you can download) can swap from MP3 to OGG naturally? Aug 18 18:48:37 a lone warrior, alone, searching for honor. on irc. alone. Aug 18 18:48:43 On the OpenZaurus OS it comes with XMMS ... which does this nice - but on the normal Zaurus OS, its a case of using 'Media Player' and OGGPlay Aug 18 18:49:25 Cyorxamp: what you mean with swap naturally? Aug 18 18:49:36 A good 75% of my music is in OGG, but it spoils it when those few tracks arn't and a different bit of software is needed to play it Aug 18 18:49:38 Cyorxamp: if you use oggplay on s60 you can use it to play both mp3's and oggs like Aug 18 18:49:39 yeah Aug 18 18:49:53 iirc at least Aug 18 18:49:57 i prefer unnatural swapping. Aug 18 18:50:06 hmm, is the oggplay you've on about not the same as the oggplay I use on my zaurus ? Aug 18 18:50:18 too bad mmf plugin that would be supported by the built in player would need all-tcb signing from nokia Aug 18 18:50:26 it's symbianoggplay Aug 18 18:50:36 http://www.rotters.de/ Aug 18 18:51:16 oh cool, yeah not the same Aug 18 18:54:05 I take it the whole 3G Phone + Bluetooth + N800 .... thing, is a walk in the park? Aug 18 18:54:43 it is Aug 18 18:59:46 cool: http://movemydata.org/ Aug 18 19:03:24 ok I've had a think, I've come to the conclusion the N800 is pointless - but its been great chatting and I thank you for your help! :P Aug 18 19:12:33 the only thing I'm buying is Pizza :P Aug 18 19:12:45 and maybe a SL-C3200 or a UMPC :P Aug 18 19:13:56 Cyorxamp: just curious, have you used the N800 Aug 18 19:14:11 nope, no shops around here have one - been phoning all day Aug 18 19:14:23 Cyorxamp: where do you live Aug 18 19:14:33 UK, above Stoke-on-Trent Aug 18 19:16:03 Cyorxamp: as far as I know in the UK you find it in some chains in main streets and malls Aug 18 19:16:24 nokia lists only two nokia shops in staffordshire - none near me Aug 18 19:16:37 and no guarantees they will have the N800 Aug 18 19:17:00 I've changed my mind about the N800 anyway - it does seem kinda pointless now, I fell in love with the whole debian factor Aug 18 19:17:43 dixons, currys, carphone house... but ok, I'm not selling devices :) Aug 18 19:17:50 :D Aug 18 19:18:50 To me it now just looks like a E45, that had a big screen, no phone or 3G, and an oversized onscreen keyboard Aug 18 19:19:13 I'd rather go for a clamshell design like the Zaurus SL-C3200 or like most UMPC's Aug 18 19:19:28 My SL-5500 has a thumbpad, as did my Jornada 928 ... I'd miss it Aug 18 19:19:54 Cyorxamp: np, see you in 2009 ;) Aug 18 19:20:11 Oh do tell :P Aug 18 19:23:02 qgil: ? Aug 18 19:23:15 Cyorxamp: yes Aug 18 19:23:33 ' np, see you in 2009 ;) ' - what do you mean! Aug 18 19:24:21 Cyorxamp: that you are looking the Nokia N800 from a Nokia phones perspective - I believe it will take you a while to realize that this is a wrong perspective Aug 18 19:24:49 the while will be longer or shorter depending on how much time it take for you to enjoy 60 minutes of tablet in your hands Aug 18 19:24:56 so my guess is... 2009 :) Aug 18 19:27:47 but it doesn't do anything new - at all Aug 18 19:28:36 it's an internet tablet - that you can only use when huddled under the shelter of a wifi area - not for on the go Aug 18 19:28:49 it can't sync with its own nokia phones for interconnectivity Aug 18 19:29:36 its debian sure, which is yum yum yum - but I suspect glossed over Aug 18 19:29:42 Cyorxamp: I won't tell you are not right: you are Aug 18 19:30:26 Cyorxamp: it's just that you are missing the combination of factors that make these devices interesting Aug 18 19:30:27 the new zaurus is yum - only sharp turn their back on you if your not japenese Aug 18 19:30:43 I don't see what your getting at, neither have you explained Aug 18 19:31:13 Cyorxamp: well, it's not easy to explain it - since I got my 770 I start using it and since then, well Aug 18 19:32:32 Cyorxamp: I should find an explanation if I would be a seller - lucky I'm not - I'm just a happy user (full disclosure: and a Nokia employee) Aug 18 19:34:58 i dunno if i'd want to sync my 770 and n95.. Aug 18 19:35:18 for mail etc.. just use the same online servers from both.. Aug 18 19:35:19 Cyorxamp: I think i've got it: it's 800px wide resolution and fits in my (jacket) pockets Aug 18 19:35:45 but thats it, a big screen - I already said that Aug 18 19:36:28 Cyorxamp: for me this is accessing to the web normally Aug 18 19:36:46 Cyorxamp: this is what I mostly do with computers Aug 18 19:36:52 as can many other PDA's with far less problems elsewhere Aug 18 19:37:23 no other pda has been so good for me for web Aug 18 19:38:00 Cyorxamp: then I would match the other PDA's with the other factor: open platform to experiment whatever Aug 18 19:38:05 I can't see how googling and searching pages, and filling out forms, and chatting on web pages is good when 90% of your screen becomes a keyboard! Aug 18 19:38:12 as is a Zaurus Aug 18 19:38:25 their only problem is no wifi! Aug 18 19:38:43 but a proper keyboard! Aug 18 19:39:24 Cyorxamp: with the tablet I'm making my passive web use: read email/web pages, listen/view stuff + little actions: brief answers, pings, clicks... Aug 18 19:39:56 Cyorxamp: then at home/work I do the longer active tasks that require good keyboard and etc Aug 18 19:40:06 with my laptop Aug 18 19:40:23 it's not a laptop replacement.. well.. sort of maybe if you get bt keyboard Aug 18 19:41:42 well, and RAM, CPU, screen resolution - it is definitely not a laptop / PC substitute, but it's a great compagnion Aug 18 19:42:36 Question for my fellow OSS developers out there: What do you think about accepting donations for software? Aug 18 19:42:59 trevarthan: accepting or asking for? Aug 18 19:43:04 good providing they don't affect the course of the development - like TransGaming does with Cedega Aug 18 19:43:39 and optional, not a 'forced donation' for a serial like X-Chat for Windows is Aug 18 19:43:44 trevarthan, one of the companies I am contracted to donates to FOSS Aug 18 19:44:10 qgil: accepting Aug 18 19:44:34 trevarthan, what license did you release your apps with? Aug 18 19:44:37 GPL Aug 18 19:44:44 v2? Aug 18 19:45:05 mmmm.... yeah v2. Aug 18 19:45:36 legally, I believe you are ok to accept donations, let me verify Aug 18 19:45:38 i donate to OSS, but i never accepted/asked for any of my software before Aug 18 19:45:44 trevarthan: I don't see any difference than with any other donation : you ask the donor why and if the answer makes sense to you, you accept the money. If it doesn't, then don't. Aug 18 19:45:56 qgil, exactly Aug 18 19:45:57 depends on the app though. it makes the aspect of development more business-y, so if i don't like the project as much as i used to like it, then i won't accept donations for it Aug 18 19:46:09 because that will force me to work on it which i don't want to do at that point anyway Aug 18 19:46:12 I wouldn't mind doing a ransom for certain features. It would provide a way for the community to motivate me to work on things that I have little to no interest in. Aug 18 19:46:30 But I don't know if ransoms ever work, or if there is a professional way to go about it. Aug 18 19:46:56 trevarthan: free software is about free-as-in-speech, the economical component is not conditioned Aug 18 19:47:16 unless you have a special license with the so-said entity Aug 18 19:47:46 qgil: sure. but if I have no interest in developing a feature, and no-one else does either, then paying me to do it might help. Aug 18 19:47:48 like the project I am working on is going to be under those guidelines Aug 18 19:47:55 * k8 is away: Out Aug 18 19:48:47 trevarthan: but that's ok and has nothing to do with GPL itself: you are the author and you decide what to work on and what are your incentives Aug 18 19:48:50 One of the problems I have with donations is that I'm not the only developer of Kagu. disq has helped considerably, and unique311 pitched in too. I wouldn't feel right accepting a donation when it isn't solely my work. Aug 18 19:49:12 qgil: you're the one asking about the GPL. I know it doesn't conflict. I've read the GPL. Aug 18 19:49:28 trevarthan, well thats when you include them or have them donate to a different non-profit Aug 18 19:49:31 trevarthan: this is what I referred to about making sense or not: your situation would be the same if you would have a restaurant or a fazine Aug 18 19:49:44 not free software related only Aug 18 19:49:52 ah. right. gotcha Aug 18 19:50:42 trevarthan, if I was in your shoes, I would have them donate to a IRS 501(c)(3) because it helps with tax returns (: (if you are in the US) Aug 18 19:51:22 ah... now you're speaking tax crap. geez. I'd prefer to not have to deal with that. Aug 18 19:51:28 if the donation is spread out over 2 years, they receive 90% in tax cuts Aug 18 19:51:48 Someone should set up a website that acts as a clearinghouse for OSS donations and handles all that crap for you. Aug 18 19:51:49 trevarthan, well, just advice... Aug 18 19:51:50 trevarthan: could ask what "part" that donation is for, and distribute the donation in "shares" (mind the double quotes there) depending on the answer. i only touched *some* of the code anyway Aug 18 19:52:44 but yeah if it comes to tax returns and all that BS i wouldn't bother either :) Aug 18 19:52:50 disq: you might have only "touched" some of it. But you've put in damn near as many hours as I have in debugging, fixing, and discussion. Easily as valuable. Aug 18 19:53:02 trevarthan: your donation looks more like a bounty, since it's conditioned to the development of a feature. I recommend you to read http://tieguy.org/blog/2006/06/18/crowding-out-of-intrinsic-motivations-aka-the-bounty-problem/ Aug 18 19:53:39 disq, my point is, if its a considerable amount, then you could direct them to a non-profit of your favorite. but at the same time, it could be split amongst yinz Aug 18 19:53:40 qgil: that was just one idea. I'm thinking about donations in general, bounties just being one part of it. Aug 18 19:54:35 erstazi: yeah, I'd prefer to keep it in the project. I've never been a fan of giving money to non-profits. Aug 18 19:54:44 qgil: reading that now, btw Aug 18 19:54:49 trevarthan: read it any way :) Money in floss development is like sex in youth: once you do it you have left something behind Aug 18 19:55:49 disturbing analogy, i was looking for paying FOSS jobs Aug 18 19:55:49 lol Aug 18 19:56:27 I never regretted sex in youth. :) Maybe it depends on how you go about it. :) Aug 18 19:56:35 hmmm same joke. move it to thailand. Aug 18 19:57:07 now it's paying. Aug 18 19:59:11 okay, that was in poor taste. Aug 18 20:01:01 seems like if I added a public bounty for a feature, that would keep someone who just wanted to work on it for fun from doing it. Aug 18 20:01:26 you'd have to receive payment then and there, and keep it hush hush or else it would hurt everyone else's motivation. Aug 18 20:01:43 and you'd have to roll the feature out quickly Aug 18 20:02:04 yeah Aug 18 20:02:08 that just doesn't seem real practical unless you're getting paid a lot for the feature. Aug 18 20:02:55 "thank you" donations seem ok though. Seems like those would help the developer re-affirm their self worth. you know? Aug 18 20:03:34 i'd take an arstechnica review over any $30 donation Aug 18 20:03:38 trevarthan: bounties are usually put out for a feature that someone really wants *now* because they either have more time than money or an actual business use for hte feature - and instead of paying one of their devs (or if they don't have devs) then it's a way to encourage the ad-hoc chaotic foss community to focus on that feature at that moment Aug 18 20:04:08 hmm, where i can find the maemo mbr config and the kernel? Aug 18 20:04:10 I've done bounties, and also paid features on FOSS - and continue to do free dev Aug 18 20:04:13 /boot is empty Aug 18 20:05:04 ajturner: yeah. It seems like public bounties are counter productive though. Aug 18 20:05:12 trevarthan: I disagree Aug 18 20:05:23 Silicium: kernel is in a seperate mtd partition Aug 18 20:06:05 Silicium: i don't know specific details though. a search for "mtd" in maemo.org could answer some of your questions Aug 18 20:06:15 from what I've seen and done - without a bounty some features just languish - they're hard or left to their own devices the available devs aren't interested in it Aug 18 20:06:16 ok thanks Aug 18 20:06:28 the benefit factor isn't high enough measured in "fun" alone Aug 18 20:06:52 ajturner: when have you ever seen a bounty paid out though? I see asterisk bounties all the time and nothing ever comes of them. Aug 18 20:06:52 and are existing other compatible Bluetooth keyboard? Aug 18 20:06:55 Threshold to Develop <= Fun + Money + Prestige Aug 18 20:07:03 not so for 150$ Aug 18 20:07:16 trevarthan: XBox hack, wxWidgets Aug 18 20:07:24 NintendoDS Wifi Aug 18 20:07:37 ajturner: how much were the bounty amounts? Aug 18 20:07:41 someone is working on getting Asterisk on iPHone I think Aug 18 20:08:12 trevarthan: $3000 US Aug 18 20:08:20 for the DS Wifi Aug 18 20:08:39 and yet there is still a very active community around even Wifi dev now - BECAUSE of that bounty enabled them Aug 18 20:08:50 http://sc.tri-bit.com/dswfb Aug 18 20:09:16 bounties over a certain amount (a grand? not sure) are ok, but below that i think not many devs will bother Aug 18 20:09:20 trevarthan: wxWidgets bounties: http://www.wxwidgets.org/wiki/index.php/WxWidgets_Bounties Aug 18 20:09:26 if it's easy to do most of the time it'll get implemented for free anyway Aug 18 20:09:40 disq: but "when" will it get implemented? Aug 18 20:09:55 trevarthan: I keep the sex/money analogy - it's not the matter itself what makes it appropriate or not - it's the people involved, the friends, the context, the purpose Aug 18 20:09:58 if I'm a business, I don't want a possible year lead time - I mayb e willing to pay $300 to have it this month Aug 18 20:10:10 in some cases it works and everybody is happy, in some cases it causes more trouble than other thing Aug 18 20:10:22 there is not only one rule Aug 18 20:10:23 ajturner: ok, a valid argument Aug 18 20:10:37 qgil: but it's usually a problem with the people that weren't involved in the sex/bounty - they feel jealous & left out moreso Aug 18 20:10:39 their problem :) Aug 18 20:11:31 ajturner: did you follow the issue in Debian about some maintainers getting paid to get the release done? Aug 18 20:11:32 lol. the sex reference again. Aug 18 20:11:41 I missed how ti fits with Maemo dev - are their bounties being offered? Aug 18 20:11:42 in GNOME the issue would be different Aug 18 20:11:46 in Ubuntu it is different Aug 18 20:11:47 etc Aug 18 20:11:48 qgil: no, didn't Aug 18 20:12:09 how is a bounty diff't from someone having a full-time job working on it? Aug 18 20:12:34 I was actually surprised at GUADEC how many companies are now heavily invested in Gnome Aug 18 20:12:38 the context, the purpose... :) Aug 18 20:12:48 in fact, the conference felt kinda... 'corporate' ;) Aug 18 20:13:51 ah, I see trevarthan asked if donations were ok Aug 18 20:14:57 speaking of guadec... quim, any progress on the presentations being posted to maemo? I'd really like to see the Modest presentation Aug 18 20:15:08 so, that sounds like it would make the guys doing it for free feel bad Aug 18 20:15:13 milhouse: dirk is on holidays, so... Aug 18 20:15:23 but I'm not sure that's a bad thing. Aug 18 20:15:28 speaking of guadec.. i'll see you all in istanbul next year. (kinda psyched) Aug 18 20:15:45 milhouse: anyway, in my queue - I also want to have all these prsentations out Aug 18 20:15:53 qgil: ah ok, that's cool - thanks Aug 18 20:17:34 ajturner: hum, have me met? Aug 18 20:17:44 have *we* met, I mena Aug 18 20:17:48 m e a n Aug 18 20:18:23 qgil: not sure if I ran into you at GUADEC? I presented on GeoClue with Henri Bergius (bergie) and Tuomas Kuosmannen Aug 18 20:18:36 and also did the OpenStreetMap lightning talk Aug 18 20:18:51 Would this be the right time to ask about OS 2007HE progress? :) Aug 18 20:19:13 ajturner: I missed those sessions and many others due to GNOME & maemo colateral responsibilities :( Aug 18 20:19:33 sorry to hear - they were back-to-back :) Aug 18 20:20:19 milhouse: it's always right time to ask this - a different story is the time to have answers Aug 18 20:20:41 qgil: you didn't come out for sushi or beers with the rest of the Nokia Maemo team? Aug 18 20:20:44 just wondering if it's still on track :) Aug 18 20:20:49 been a bit quiet Aug 18 20:20:56 ajturner: sushi yes, beers too Aug 18 20:21:40 shed loads of new interest in 770s lately - i think exceeding n800 interest! :) Aug 18 20:21:59 milhouse: it is on track, there is something quite ready - still with internal reviews though (and don't try to deduce any date from this because even myself fail at these exercises) :) Aug 18 20:22:34 excellent news - thanks quim Aug 18 20:23:48 i'd be happy to help test whatever you have ready :D Aug 18 20:25:05 it's more in the non-code side milhouse - please don't make much fuzz of this since, really, I don't know when will be ready to be published Aug 18 20:25:28 by non-code I mean non-developer Aug 18 20:25:44 ok, no problem - just wondering (others have asked on itt) Aug 18 20:26:36 yes, I know - they also ask in my blog :) Aug 18 20:27:00 maybe a brief maemo update would suffice? :) Aug 18 20:27:08 essentially what you've said above Aug 18 20:27:21 just to calm the masses (of new 770 owners) :) Aug 18 20:27:37 let me see if I can explain Aug 18 20:27:45 to me there are 2 types of silence Aug 18 20:28:03 1 type is we can't tell something because it's confidential etc Aug 18 20:28:31 another type is we can't tell something because there are still details missing and to awake and then frustrate expectations we prefer to say nothing Aug 18 20:28:49 darn Aug 18 20:28:51 * sp3000 was anticipating another allegory involving sex Aug 18 20:29:12 now is the second category Aug 18 20:29:23 ok, but bear this in mind... a few weeks back (6+?) it was announced that os 2007he would be released in "weeks not months") - i'd provide a link to the maemo news archive but... ;) Aug 18 20:29:36 sp3000: the last I would like is to get quoted in a sentence combining 770, silence and sex ;) Aug 18 20:29:58 since then - no news. definately worth just posting something that says "it will be a bit longer but not much" - no details required beyond that Aug 18 20:30:26 becuase now it is getting into months, rather than weeks :) Aug 18 20:30:37 milhouse: and what if I write "not much" and then it happens that is somewhat "Much"? Aug 18 20:31:02 milhouse: when *I* wrote that "weeks not months" I really thought would be like this Aug 18 20:31:06 then the unplanned comes and etc Aug 18 20:32:37 I can also quote sentences from maemo mailing lists or ITT of people (with their full right) saying that releases and changes matter more than more words Aug 18 20:33:07 qgil: absolutely, and i understand that you need to remain vague and even the best intentions of mice and men etc. mean the project slips... but from an end users point of view the "radio silence" surrounding OS 2007HE doesn't bode well. Remember that OS 2007 on 770 has caused a lot of angst so just a few words to say the project hasn't slipped off the radar would be nice Aug 18 20:33:12 I think the best message is to release the new HE version - in the meantime perhaps silence is not the best option, but writing 'something' has its risks too Aug 18 20:33:55 expectation management is one phrase that springs to mind... without the need to give an exact date, just something to say it's ticking along and not forgotten Aug 18 20:35:04 hum Aug 18 20:35:06 "OS 2007HE UPDATE: It's still going to happen, hang in there. End of update." :) Aug 18 20:35:41 Devil you do, devil you don't I guess Aug 18 20:36:49 alright, I'll do it but in the middle waters - enough to get me quoted in something less volatile than in an IRC log Aug 18 20:37:18 argh... don't make me feel guily! Aug 18 20:37:21 :) Aug 18 20:37:32 thanks :) Aug 18 20:37:36 I'm trying to write this misc blog post, I'll add a 770 postdata - I'll sleep much better after that Aug 18 20:37:58 thank you! Aug 18 20:38:30 no, thank you Aug 18 20:38:58 i hope it doesn't back fire on you - if it does, you can say you "told me so" :) Aug 18 20:39:50 I don't mind getting back fired on stuff we are working on :) Aug 18 20:48:03 syn syn syn Aug 18 20:48:16 are you aware of a minimcom / cu n800 package? Aug 18 20:48:47 Review of the T-Mobile Ameo in this months T3 mag, got 4 out of 5 stars, has a 640x480 screen costs £500 and was criticised for not being able to show Flash or YouTube... how does it get 4 stars?! The N800 got 3 stars at most (could have been 2) costs less, does more. What gives? Aug 18 20:49:53 I know T3 isn't a great tech mag (was once) but still... can't the reviewers be edumacated by Noka when they are given the device to review? :) Aug 18 20:50:21 s/Noka/Nokia/ Aug 18 20:50:22 milhouse meant: I know T3 isn't a great tech mag (was once) but still... can't the reviewers be edumacated by Nokia when they are given the device to review? :) Aug 18 20:50:41 are you aware of a minimcom / cu n800 package? Aug 18 20:50:48 think i need to cancel my T3 sub an' all. Aug 18 20:51:18 milhouse: this bloog entry is getting too gnomeish and the PS looks like totally out of context Aug 18 20:51:26 milhouse: recommend me an itt thread and I'll post there Aug 18 20:51:31 how about having Carlos post a blog update? Aug 18 20:51:46 hang on, i'll go search - deffo one at least Aug 18 20:51:55 convince Carlos that silence category 2 is not the best option ;) Aug 18 20:52:26 here you go: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8912&highlight=2007 Aug 18 20:52:38 title: Is OS 2007 ever going to come? :) Aug 18 21:04:34 milhouse: and here you go: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8912&highlight=2007 Aug 18 21:05:12 superb! :) that should stop the natives from getting restless for another few weeks :D Aug 18 21:06:35 aww man fantastic interview from Scott Horton with Ron Paul - http://www.antiwar.com/blog/2007/08/17/rep-ron-paul-3/ Aug 18 21:06:50 oops Aug 18 21:06:53 nooo....politics! Aug 18 21:07:15 sorry wrong channel Aug 18 21:07:17 milhouse: I tell you with confidence that I can't invest the time I invested in the Tablet Advocacy thread now again :) Aug 18 21:07:40 i can imagine :) Aug 18 21:07:53 maybe you need to hire someone for that role? Aug 18 21:08:04 or to be part of their role... Aug 18 21:08:22 someone to deal with the plebs :) Aug 18 21:09:08 I don't hire, but if anybody asks me I still tell that I prefer to hire people fix/improve/lead first - it is always easier and more grateful to provide explanations after that :) Aug 18 21:10:36 from your point of view, I can see why you'd say that. From my point of view, it's slightly different. :) Aug 18 21:10:49 about dealing with the community, we are working on this but concentrating on the maemo.org channels Aug 18 21:11:05 fair enough. Aug 18 21:11:18 some ITT people expects that Nokia employees should follow all the activity there and respond Aug 18 21:11:38 well, I don't know many OSS projects where developers are expected to be responsive out of the channels of the project Aug 18 21:11:41 absolutely, it should be a part of your daily routine to read every post on ITT Aug 18 21:11:45 ;) Aug 18 21:12:01 but it would be nice to see you there occasionaly Aug 18 21:12:11 :) Aug 18 21:12:19 i think igor drops by every now and again Aug 18 21:12:30 not sure who sd69 is... might be an nokian Aug 18 21:12:34 s/an/a/ Aug 18 21:12:35 milhouse meant: not sure who sd69 is... might be a nokian Aug 18 21:12:45 I don 't track userid's either Aug 18 21:13:34 as I see it a lot of the fuzz comes from a non-common understanding Aug 18 21:13:44 landing as a parachute in itt from time to time doesn't always help on this Aug 18 21:14:06 and once you shoot then you have to continue Aug 18 21:14:23 so really, I think it is good enough to be responsive always in the maemo lists, bugzilla, etc Aug 18 21:14:43 and then there is some of you guys who are in both spaces Aug 18 21:14:54 i don't think anyone is expecting continuous dialog there, but the occassional note might help. at least keep an eye on it to guage reaction and feedback... it's probably good for that in some capacity Aug 18 21:15:17 for instance, the cheap 770s and the WSoD and lack of support from Nokia - that's bad. Aug 18 21:15:38 though i'm sure that's been noticed in the ofifical channels also Aug 18 21:16:18 where possible those of us who visit most of the official communication channels will feed back into ITT Aug 18 21:18:00 milhouse: when talking about hardware "lack of support" is not a right expression: you use the Nokia customer channels for that Aug 18 21:18:14 Apparently Nokia are refusing responsibility Aug 18 21:18:21 maemo is about software - I really have little to say and do about hardware even if I have a @nokia.com Aug 18 21:18:24 not honouring warranty etc. Aug 18 21:19:11 understood - but whether it's software or hardware, it reflects badly on nokia/maemo/etc. Aug 18 21:19:44 anyway... not your area so i'll drop it :) Aug 18 21:19:44 "apparently", do you remember a thread? Nokia support follows the threads there Aug 18 21:19:50 there are sever on itt Aug 18 21:19:55 s/sever/several/ Aug 18 21:19:56 milhouse meant: there are several on itt Aug 18 21:20:04 they are followed, reported internally, etc Aug 18 21:20:31 as a summary, anyone who bought one of the cheap 770s is being refused a warranty repair for the white screen of death Aug 18 21:20:59 cheap/expensive doesn't mean anything: the warranty text is the same Aug 18 21:21:01 it seems that devices were cross shipped to another continent where the warranty is invalid (ie. UK bought devices have US warranties etc.) Aug 18 21:21:08 i'd have thought so too Aug 18 21:21:13 but apparently not Aug 18 21:21:33 let me find a not too long thread Aug 18 21:22:49 hey milhouse Aug 18 21:22:49 <_Monkey> milhouse is, like, the owner of _monkey Aug 18 21:22:56 maybe you can clarify something: Was the WSOD fault rectified on the production line, and does it only affect a range of devices? or is it inherent in every device ever produced? Aug 18 21:23:05 oh nevermind Aug 18 21:23:41 milhouse: if you are talking to qgil, qgil can tell you that he has no clue about hardware, honestly Aug 18 21:23:52 ok :) Aug 18 21:25:50 and qgil knows only a little about sales and guarantees, not specifically about Nokia but in general as a consumer Aug 18 21:26:38 but if you buy legally a consumer electronics product the seller or distributors that sold it to you has to respond about the guarantee Aug 18 21:27:28 you'd have thought so... Aug 18 21:27:30 a different thing is if you buy the device in your trip to the US or wherever and then try to claim something to a reseller or whoever in a different country Aug 18 21:28:35 if i bought a Nokia device on a trip to the US, assuming the device is also sold in the UK I'd fully expect Nokia to repair it under warranty - wouldn't you? Aug 18 21:29:12 milhouse: depends on the guarantee text - I reckon I haven't read it. Aug 18 21:29:12 seemingly Nokia UK are looking up the MAC address and refusing the warranty because it was shipped for sale in the US, which is nuts. Aug 18 21:29:20 seems... unecessary. Aug 18 21:29:46 somebody knows if when i call gtk_widget_destroy the childs are destroyed too? for example a container Aug 18 21:31:33 in any case if you as a consumer think this is unfair you can rant on ITT but, really, where you should go is to the institutional office (sorry, my English lacks some vocabulary) where you can claim your consumer rights Aug 18 21:31:45 anyone knows if can i mount a samba partition located in a remote computer from the n800? Aug 18 21:31:48 I'm not saying this as a Nokia employee and I have no special interest defending Nokia sales here Aug 18 21:32:02 I'm saying this just as a consumer Aug 18 21:32:11 yep, that's what i tend to recommend to people - consult their local trading standards and stand by your consumer rights Aug 18 21:33:09 it just seems unecessary - particularly as the WSoD is an all too common problem so I hope this doesn't continue for months to come. oh well. Aug 18 21:34:42 oh well, a problem here is when we mix open source software practices with issues unrelated to the software itself: hardware, guarantees, etc Aug 18 21:34:53 i'll shut up about hardware. :) Aug 18 21:35:07 and guarantees/warranties :) Aug 18 21:35:35 it does come up a bit on itt so wondered if you had any inside info - if not, no worries. Aug 18 21:35:42 then people expect that Nokia representatives (((I'm not talking about you))) will go to a web forum and answer to issues as if they were hackers Aug 18 21:37:20 milhouse: Nokia people in charge of gathering user satisfactions and etc follow ITT as part as the scanning of web, media, etc Aug 18 21:37:36 that's good to know Aug 18 21:37:47 I'd say all the relevant issues reach the internal target, specially those relating to hardware Aug 18 21:37:51 there's a lot of noise there, but also some useful grass roots activity/frustrations/happiness etc Aug 18 21:38:14 milhouse: well, that's clear - no doubt about it :) Aug 18 21:38:49 why do people who like free operating systems not value freedom? Aug 18 21:39:11 wrong channel again? ;) Aug 18 21:41:21 pupnik: freedom is one of the topics that got thinking more the phylosophers of all times - perhaps you want to develop a bit your toughts ;) Aug 18 21:41:52 qgil perhaps you can help me become more developed Aug 18 21:42:14 pupnik: provide an example Aug 18 21:42:41 pupnik: if only to help me become more developed Aug 18 21:42:55 habeus corpus Aug 18 21:43:18 torture Aug 18 21:43:27 do you like torture? Aug 18 21:43:38 LOL!!! Aug 18 21:43:55 there are people who support torture Aug 18 21:44:01 in power Aug 18 21:44:09 you mean in the USA? Aug 18 21:44:15 land of the free? Aug 18 21:44:19 in the usa, germany, europe Aug 18 21:44:25 pupnik: it's either habeas corpus or habemus papa Aug 18 21:44:42 i'd go with habeas corpus myself Aug 18 21:45:46 i will stop talking, but lets all support lawful government and freedom of speech Aug 18 21:45:55 in fact only a subset of humans value freedom, and have a very different understanding between themselves about what freedom means Aug 18 21:46:10 the rest of species seems to ignore freedom Aug 18 21:47:08 some would say that "lawful" is uncompatible with "freedom" ;) Aug 18 21:47:52 depends on the country qgil Aug 18 21:48:07 and the ideology Aug 18 21:48:47 soooo.... this n800 thing... is it any good? Aug 18 21:48:54 but if you are talking about the US, a different system of elections and a less powerful president would definitely help Aug 18 21:49:01 Chads!!! Aug 18 21:49:13 * pupnik tips hat to qgil Aug 18 21:55:23 anyone knows if i can mount a samba partition located in a remote computer from the n800? Aug 18 21:56:59 should be possible Aug 18 21:57:03 check fanoush's site Aug 18 21:57:51 http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#mmcplus Aug 18 21:58:00 there's a ZIP file with nfs, cifs etc. Aug 18 21:58:25 ok :D, thx for the tip... Aug 18 21:58:56 also search itt forums - it's been discussed several times Aug 18 22:02:07 how come when i umount my mmc Aug 18 22:02:11 and then reinsert it Aug 18 22:02:19 i always get the message that it is corrupt Aug 18 22:02:31 every time? Aug 18 22:02:44 i dont think ive seen a time where it hasnt said that Aug 18 22:02:48 if i restart the device with it in its fine Aug 18 22:02:58 this is on a 770? Aug 18 22:02:59 and if i restart it without a card and then later insert it, its fine Aug 18 22:03:01 yes Aug 18 22:03:42 finally, the blog entry I'm trying to write since... http://desdeamericaconamor.org/blog/node/387 Aug 18 22:04:05 opening #maemo is always risky when you want to be productive ;) Aug 18 22:04:06 yummie Aug 18 22:04:28 hm Aug 18 22:04:35 that was just a joke, thanks milhouse and co for the (as usual) productive conversation Aug 18 22:04:48 my pleasure :) Aug 18 22:05:10 i cant get any files onto my mmc-mobile card either :-( Aug 18 22:05:16 the 770 can read/write it fine Aug 18 22:05:32 my usb access to mmc's is flakey at the best of times, regardless of os too Aug 18 22:05:48 i can read the files fine, but can only write about 8mb before it freezes up Aug 18 22:06:02 is the card any good? Aug 18 22:06:14 milhouse: btw, question for you (no hurries) - how you feel about the new http://maemo.org/news/ ? Aug 18 22:06:21 how do you mean milhouse Aug 18 22:06:25 the mmc-mobile one? Aug 18 22:06:47 i have 2, both datawrite, one is rs-mmc the other is mmc-mobile Aug 18 22:07:00 the rs-mmc can be read in my card reader and im currently writing to it and its fine Aug 18 22:07:11 the mmc-mobile doesnt seem to be properly recognised at all by the reader Aug 18 22:07:16 qgil: looks a bit more stylish, main text font renders a little small in ff/xp Aug 18 22:07:20 i cant use usb to write to either card Aug 18 22:07:35 qgil: i certainly prefer the wider widht and without the hackergotchis Aug 18 22:07:54 qgil: and the consistent flow is better - the first article always looked a little odd Aug 18 22:07:55 wait, the hackergotchis are still in the planet Aug 18 22:08:02 what am i looking at? Aug 18 22:08:04 oh hang on Aug 18 22:08:13 ah Aug 18 22:08:15 hmm... Aug 18 22:08:19 guess i might try back things up later and wipe all the cards and flash my 770 Aug 18 22:09:07 qgil: the news page seems to be planet in a different format Aug 18 22:09:14 what's going on? confused :( Aug 18 22:09:28 it's not, look the sources of the news there: it's a mixture Aug 18 22:09:49 it is intended to be the single page you will need to follow to get a grasp of whatever is relevant Aug 18 22:09:50 yes, it's a superset - a lot of planet articles, plus others... is that wise? Aug 18 22:09:57 ok Aug 18 22:10:00 now, please log Aug 18 22:10:23 with your maemo account Aug 18 22:10:41 i saw the hearts thing... didn't vote for anything :) Aug 18 22:10:56 i did think - why hearts (a bit cheesy)... why not mini tablets? Aug 18 22:11:10 whatever :) Aug 18 22:11:59 it's not only the hearts what makes a news go up on the rank and/or stay in the highlights, it's a ombination of factors, including Technoraty reputation, people linking that article in del.icio.us... Aug 18 22:11:59 and when i'm not logged in, how do i see the votes? i don't see the hearts when i'm not logged in - should i? Aug 18 22:12:53 milhouse: it's a bug http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1815 Aug 18 22:12:56 i think someone has already opened a bugzilla entry for the workflow following a vote - i agree with that, it just leaves you on a page with a text box which is wierd. Aug 18 22:13:13 aha, good :) Aug 18 22:13:20 (good that it has a bug entry) Aug 18 22:13:20 anonymous users will see hearts everywhere once this is fixed and once we have adapted the maemo.org home to these news Aug 18 22:13:45 milhouse: yeah, that workflow has another bug submitted Aug 18 22:13:58 this is what betas are good for :) Aug 18 22:14:00 i need to visit news more often :) Aug 18 22:14:08 i tend to hit planet by default (bookmark) Aug 18 22:14:34 I'm following it regularly and, as usual, I'm processing a lot of web new pages with "maemo" in it Aug 18 22:14:47 I'm surprised how clever the algorythm is when "editing" Aug 18 22:14:51 i like the bugzilla changes - fine with that. i also saw the bug complaining about midgard and wiki - i agree the midgard "wiki" is primitive... should have diffs at least Aug 18 22:15:07 even when people doesn't fave much as it's happening now Aug 18 22:15:46 bugzilla changes, i'd like to see them applied in few weeks (and I can talk about deadlines about this) ;) Aug 18 22:15:59 the wiki, yes it's my next battle Aug 18 22:16:49 the only thing i'd say about the fixed width - while i understand why it's there, i think it's going to constrain some content (ie. wide tables, long lines of code etc.) which is a shame Aug 18 22:17:19 any tables with more than half a dozen columns break out of the fixed width :( Aug 18 22:17:55 milhouse: I'm open to discussion as soon as real problems appear Aug 18 22:18:13 bugzilla went flexible, other components can go flexible as well if needed Aug 18 22:19:08 bug 1392 Aug 18 22:19:09 <_Monkey> Bug 1392 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1392 Aug 18 22:19:40 oh great... the BluetoothDUN page has gone :( Aug 18 22:20:08 that page had a table that was all over the place! :) Aug 18 22:20:29 and had some useful info (what phones were known to work or had problems with tablets). Aug 18 22:21:42 milhouse: it's not gone, the content is there but the moin tablet format is not recognized Aug 18 22:22:03 need manual fixing (too late for me to go through this today) Aug 18 22:22:52 let me 2 minutes to see thie BTdun page... Aug 18 22:23:40 odd, it used to be visible - maybe an update supressed it. Aug 18 22:28:47 so markdown doesn't support tables? you have to use html instead? bummer. Aug 18 22:32:35 ...and midgard preview is soooo slow Aug 18 22:41:35 http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1392 updated Aug 18 22:42:07 milhouse: on the other hand is usual to get complains about the limitations of creating tables in wikis, in this case if you know html there are no limitations Aug 18 22:42:32 in fact midgard wiki can digest most HTML (because in its origin it's not a wiki) Aug 18 22:43:25 the midgard wiki needs fixing, I agreed with henri a list of changes but they are not done Aug 18 22:43:41 yeah... i'm just trying to convert that wiki table to html table - nightmare :) Aug 18 22:43:44 next week I will convert this list in public bugs so it's clear what is to be expected from the wiki Aug 18 22:43:59 i'll try and update the bluetoothdun page using an html table tonight Aug 18 22:44:01 milhouse: that one is nightmare yes Aug 18 22:44:07 thanks Aug 18 22:44:20 will keep the same columns for now, but at least get it to display Aug 18 22:44:53 time for me to zzzzzzz Aug 18 22:45:19 one advantage the wiki notation has over html is that it's easier to edit... this html could get messy :) Aug 18 22:45:29 g'night - and thanks again Aug 18 22:46:14 thanks to you again :) Aug 18 23:02:21 * k8 notte Aug 18 23:13:32 question: is it possible to watch youtube or other flashplayer related things on 770? how to install flashplayer? does a portable version exist? Aug 18 23:14:00 btw, hi all, good evening/night Aug 18 23:47:31 hmmm Aug 18 23:47:39 so im thinking about a 770 for my mom Aug 18 23:47:54 anyone tried such an experiment? Aug 18 23:48:05 Luria, my mother has used mine before Aug 18 23:48:29 Luria, just show her the basics, how to connect with wifi and where the browser is and a few other apps that might interest her, I did the same for my father Aug 18 23:48:47 and your mom isnt grace hopper, right? Aug 18 23:48:51 i see Aug 18 23:49:00 and do they use it? Aug 18 23:49:32 Oh dear. I was going to get my parents one and... no. Bad idea. Aug 18 23:49:48 my mother dislikes computers, I have to guide her how to copy and paste a URL into an email and how to send the email Aug 18 23:49:59 oh my mom is ok on firefox Aug 18 23:50:01 Luria, they used mine for an hour Aug 18 23:50:09 but not much more Aug 18 23:50:29 Luria, the key of success is if they want to learn... anyone can desire but if they want to learn then its different Aug 18 23:50:45 i guess you are right about that Aug 18 23:51:17 sully, what happened with you? Aug 18 23:51:32 I remembered my mother can't yet handle a mouse Aug 18 23:51:40 oh Aug 18 23:51:47 not the case here. Aug 18 23:52:01 sully, technically, no one needs a mouse, except for gaming Aug 18 23:52:06 *some* games Aug 18 23:52:08 my mother is travelling more these days, so was asking about portable email devices Aug 18 23:52:24 Luria, honestly, the deals they have on the 770 are great for her Aug 18 23:52:25 No need to tell me, I used to do CAD without a mouse in the 90s Aug 18 23:52:27 and she can always learn Aug 18 23:52:48 I used a HTC TyTn and was pretty impressed with it Aug 18 23:52:53 sully, I am a web developer and thats our main focus is mouse-less user-friendly apps Aug 18 23:52:53 blackberry, treo, etc... but she doesnt really want to check it on the bus - she wans a computer in miami or st. louis or whereever Aug 18 23:53:22 http://www.europe.htc.com/products/htctytn.html Aug 18 23:53:23 Luria, I would let her try it, $130 + free shipping at buy.com is not bad Aug 18 23:53:36 Touchscreen, QWERTY keyboard, Windows Mobile Aug 18 23:53:44 yeah. i have a shopping cart ready to go :-) Aug 18 23:54:05 i like the htcs, but they are pricey and so is the service Aug 18 23:54:22 hmm, I suppose Aug 18 23:54:39 whats the current stability of the 770? Aug 18 23:54:48 IT 2006 is pretty good Aug 18 23:54:57 and 2007he? Aug 18 23:55:01 Luria, I use 770/OS2006 Aug 18 23:55:06 Haven't tried. I guess you could set that up for her Aug 18 23:55:21 You definitely want to do the boot from MMC and kernel hack to speed it up Aug 18 23:55:27 I am more the type to use a stable version before going with OS2007HE Aug 18 23:55:27 Very annoyingly slow before that Aug 18 23:55:36 well, i, like most of you, are tech support :-) Aug 18 23:55:45 of course Aug 18 23:56:07 i put in wall cat-5 wiring down 8 years ago :-) Aug 18 23:57:10 If I ever buy in this ridiculously expensive city, it will be phone/coax/ethernet to all rooms Aug 18 23:58:32 yeah, i have rj-11/rj-45 panels in most rooms, terminating at a hub 5 feet from the multi room stereo Aug 18 23:58:57 Been wondering how I could embed a touchscreen PC in the wall of each room Aug 18 23:59:04 line -> dsl patch(and split off) ->pbx Aug 18 23:59:47 cool little system... i have one of these (now) ancient panasonic digital/analog hybrid pbxs Aug 18 23:59:59 so you can use regular phones too Aug 19 00:01:05 how would you be using the touch screens? Aug 19 00:02:19 View front porch camera, pick music, Internet? Aug 19 00:02:26 I haven't thought it all the way through Aug 19 00:03:41 PoE sound like the way to go Aug 19 00:03:53 you may have to hack your own device/frame Aug 19 00:04:09 * sully nods Aug 19 00:04:21 though i dunno about about the power for the screen Aug 19 00:04:23 There are a bunch of microATX computers out there, but all pricey Aug 19 00:04:34 I've got a few years to figure it out Aug 19 00:04:48 gumstix Aug 19 00:05:03 not uATX Aug 19 00:05:15 they arent pricey Aug 19 00:06:56 but no poe yet Aug 19 00:07:04 but they will, eventually Aug 19 00:12:40 well, pulled the trigger on the 770 Aug 19 00:12:56 anyone bought a 770 after an n800 Aug 19 00:13:11 (while still owning the n800) Aug 19 00:14:53 anyone? Aug 19 00:16:10 http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1957/august_17_1957_119308.html Aug 19 00:16:12 That's amazing. Aug 19 00:16:49 i saw that simpsons episode Aug 19 00:16:55 oh wait thats real Aug 19 00:17:01 :-) Aug 19 00:25:44 I love when my wife moves my blank cd's Aug 19 00:25:56 especially when she knows I use them every week Aug 19 00:52:10 I just got my nokia 770 yesterday... I bought it on a whim, would love to know how to get the most of it. Does anyone have any suggestions? Aug 19 00:52:29 how do I even check what OS version I'm running? I've been looking for a while, and can't find it... Aug 19 00:52:49 Control Panel, Device Aug 19 00:53:39 Internet Tablet os 2006 :( Aug 19 00:53:49 is there an upgrade? Aug 19 00:53:56 sully btw, thanks Aug 19 00:54:03 Yeah, but you don't probably want it just yet Aug 19 00:54:10 Here's my list of applications to get on the 770: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=66&threadid=2072173&highlight_key=y Aug 19 00:58:07 sully, when should I upgrade to 07? Aug 19 00:58:30 or the 'hacker version' http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ Aug 19 00:58:33 When they give us an official release :) It should be coming soonish Aug 19 00:58:48 ahh... so it hasn't been 'officially' released. :) cool Aug 19 00:58:49 official-unofficial anyways Aug 19 01:00:37 you have everything I need, except vnc. Aug 19 01:01:29 People ooh and aah over my Remote Desktop capabilities, haha Aug 19 01:01:38 I do need to figure out how to VPN on the 770 though Aug 19 01:01:57 that's why I was going to use ssh, so I could 'safely' browser over open WIFI. Aug 19 01:02:14 I really want someone to get the IP-over-DNS thing moving. Aug 19 01:02:35 hahaha... that would be awesome. Aug 19 01:02:45 I wonder would that work in starbucks, or if they plugged that hole Aug 19 01:03:32 Lloyd, I never tried that Aug 19 01:04:10 erstazi, was it you who got it working? Aug 19 01:04:12 erstazi: it's a little slower, but heck... I dont watn to transfer my passwords, over unsecured wifi. Aug 19 01:05:30 sully, I did vnc before but I do that all the time, especially for work Aug 19 01:07:06 Lloyd, You can use a ssh tunnel in these cases Aug 19 01:08:21 DaniloCesar: :) yup... but openssh isn't on the maemo repo. :( Aug 19 01:09:31 ??? Aug 19 01:09:42 says it can't find it Aug 19 01:09:52 "Not Found?" Aug 19 01:09:52 Its another name Aug 19 01:10:11 little ssh or something Aug 19 01:11:01 http://maemo.org/downloads/search/application.html?org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=description&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=ssh&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=os&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=IT2007&org_openpsa_products_ Aug 19 01:11:03 search%5B3%5D%5Bproperty%5D=license&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B3%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bproperty%5D=status&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_openpsa_products_search%5B4%5D%5Bvalue%5D=&fetch=Fetch%21 Aug 19 01:11:20 oh wow... maemo should probably use some sort of routing + session information. heh. Aug 19 01:15:04 dpkg-deb (subprocess): short read in buffer_copy (failed to write to pipe in copy) Aug 19 01:15:12 im getting that error at random when installing packages with dpkg -i Aug 19 01:15:19 just trying again usually fixes it Aug 19 01:15:28 or redownloading the package Aug 19 01:15:34 wtf? Aug 19 01:40:18 silly maemo page Aug 19 01:40:31 timeless, you there? Aug 19 01:41:45 Hi all. I have a Nokia n800 and my ISP requires a PPPoE connection over my configured WiFi connection Aug 19 01:41:56 what are the possibilities to set up a PPPoE connection? Aug 19 01:42:05 anyone know why themes dont work anymore on the n800? downloaded themes that is. Aug 19 01:42:10 or can you tell me some web page, where I can read about configuring the PPPoE? Aug 19 01:42:43 Someone here know if a Palm BT keyboard works fine with N800? Aug 19 01:43:00 rhys: some change in the theme engine, causing imcompatibilities, no work around yet (that I know of) Aug 19 01:43:12 Blacksitox, your router does pppoe, then the rest of your network is behind your router. Aug 19 01:43:45 Lloyd, ty Aug 19 01:44:31 rhys, yes Aug 19 01:44:46 also, anyone know if theres a tab on the thumbboard Aug 19 01:45:50 Blacksitox, then your n800 only has to worry about the authentication with your wifi router. Aug 19 01:45:57 You shouldn't need you Nokia 800 to do PPPoE Aug 19 01:46:12 and I don't know why I said that since it was all just explained, never mind :o Aug 19 01:47:16 I do not have to router wifi Aug 19 01:47:27 freakn' battery has lasterd a while, while not being ever charged... still had charge out of the box... (unopened) Aug 19 01:50:25 Blacksitox, what is your setup then? Aug 19 01:50:49 Are you saying that your Internet is provided to you via Wi-Fi? Aug 19 01:54:30 is there a better application manager than the default one? Aug 19 01:54:47 haha Aug 19 01:55:10 Let's not get too ambitious Aug 19 01:55:16 it's horrid... I'm used to gnome Aug 19 01:55:28 A lot on the tablet is rather horrid, unfortunately Aug 19 01:55:33 Wait until you experience the RSS reader Aug 19 01:55:43 I use the google.com/reader Aug 19 01:55:51 I got used to that just recently, and it's pretty good. Aug 19 01:55:54 I really want something for offline reading Aug 19 01:55:54 i use pacman. its ok Aug 19 01:55:55 except it's not offline Aug 19 01:56:13 rhys, to router ADSL Aug 19 01:56:20 rhys, what is that? Aug 19 01:56:34 why's nano-tiny at 1.2.4-5, when nano 2.05 is out? weird. Aug 19 01:56:45 why would I want php5 on a tablet?? Aug 19 01:56:56 Were there significant advances in the world of text editors? Aug 19 01:57:01 he saod he uses gnome. im used to pacman, the arch package manager. Aug 19 01:57:05 ahh Aug 19 01:57:23 scully, yeah, enhanced syntax highlighting within nano Aug 19 01:57:25 :) Aug 19 01:58:05 I know how to use atitude. :) Aug 19 01:58:18 and apt-get... which would be less painful than the default. Aug 19 01:58:28 just make myself the text files on the PC, and copy them over. Aug 19 01:58:47 pacman is apt-get done better Aug 19 02:00:08 why is there wordpress in the packages?? like... who's going to setup an httpd, php, and wordpress for their tablet? maybe it's just 'cause I can'... but really... spend that time and effort into something more pleasant. I can maybe understand php and an httpd deamon... but wordpress as a package Aug 19 02:00:39 Lloyd: me, maybe? Aug 19 02:00:59 ive run daemons and servers of various sorts on handheld devices at LAN parties before Aug 19 02:01:09 never anything as complex as wordpress, but thats not outside the realm of possibility Aug 19 02:01:13 what was the reason for doing so? Aug 19 02:01:32 because i didnt have a spare computer on the LAN to run [whatever] Aug 19 02:12:01 I am smoking way too much today Aug 19 02:12:16 quit... you'd save so much. Aug 19 02:12:29 how much is a pack where you're at? how many packs a day? Aug 19 02:12:41 * 365 Aug 19 02:13:17 say $5, pack a day. $1825/yr... that's a whole new kick ass computer. Aug 19 02:13:27 $4 Aug 19 02:13:35 and I smoke 10 cigs a day on average Aug 19 02:13:46 25 in a pack? Aug 19 02:13:48 or the smalls? Aug 19 02:13:54 but yes I know the costs Aug 19 02:13:59 20, 100s Aug 19 02:14:33 oh... that's only $730/yr... you can buy a crappy laptop for that... :) Aug 19 02:14:49 haha Aug 19 02:14:56 well my wife smokes 1.5 packs a day Aug 19 02:15:01 and they are $5 a pack Aug 19 02:15:34 but yeah, I know the costs involved, I quit once before when I joined the Army (17 years old) then started up about 3 years ago Aug 19 02:15:38 again Aug 19 02:15:44 so I didn't smoke for the longest time Aug 19 02:15:49 stressed? Aug 19 02:15:56 and I don't even remember why I started again Aug 19 02:15:58 well, now I am Aug 19 02:16:00 but thats nothing new Aug 19 02:16:45 3 years ago, I don't remember anything or what happened Aug 19 02:18:44 is there firefox for 770? Aug 19 02:19:19 There is Mini Mozilla Aug 19 02:19:43 minimo? Aug 19 02:19:43 <_Monkey> minimo is (Mini Mozilla) Web browser, a slimmed down version of mozilla browser aiming resource reduced devices. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/minimo/ Aug 19 02:20:05 Lloyd, I have minimo on my OS2006/Nokia 770 Aug 19 02:21:13 * sully gives mplayer a try on his 770 Aug 19 02:26:32 gainroot? Aug 19 02:26:42 shucks, I was hoping there'd be a bot reply. Aug 19 02:30:34 gainroot is the crutch of the feeble mind. Aug 19 02:30:51 How's that? Aug 19 02:31:56 wow Aug 19 02:31:59 thats odd Aug 19 02:32:25 i finally got the hebrew keyboard working... but only the small one Aug 19 02:32:38 if it goes big, it turns into russian Aug 19 02:33:03 How do you make it big? Aug 19 02:33:10 i mean thumbboard Aug 19 02:33:27 How do you do that? Aug 19 02:33:36 i think there needs to be an oss font package for nokia Aug 19 02:34:21 default is to hit the center switch on the d-pad when there is a tap keyboard Aug 19 02:35:36 Doesn't work for me in xterm. :( Aug 19 02:36:19 I keep finding giant keys after I accidentally put it somewhere and it gets roughed up by the kids or some groceries. Aug 19 02:37:21 i think you need osso-xterm maemo hackers edition **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Aug 19 02:59:57 2007