**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Aug 27 02:59:57 2007
Aug 27 03:09:48 <NeoStrider_> ysss:  it reflects the floor ahead of you
Aug 27 03:09:57 <NeoStrider_> got to go fellows
Aug 27 03:09:58 <NeoStrider_> cya
Aug 27 03:19:29 <nelson> setite: yes, I use a bluetooth keyboard.
Aug 27 03:27:48 <setite> yoyo
Aug 27 03:39:34 <nelson> setite: http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite
Aug 27 04:42:17 <timelyx> oh well... bugs.maemo.org is almost reorganized
Aug 27 05:10:45 <latzko> hi
Aug 27 05:13:28 <latzko> Is that true for a home applet that gtk_widget_show_all () is automaticly called for the widget returned by initialize? I have some buttons I want to hide at start but I can't.
Aug 27 06:19:52 <unique311> early in the morning...
Aug 27 06:20:29 <unique311> any mods or admins from ITT in here?
Aug 27 06:29:06 <milhouse> You mean is Reggie here? ;)
Aug 27 06:32:45 <milhouse> oh lord... has another thread gone pete tong on itt?
Aug 27 06:33:07 <milhouse> just reading your "locked" thread...
Aug 27 06:37:09 <unique311> milhouse, yes
Aug 27 06:37:25 <unique311> the man gets arrested for stealing wifi
Aug 27 06:37:31 <milhouse> i'd been ignoring that thread as it was old news... having to read it now - all 8 pages :)
Aug 27 06:37:41 <unique311> i like the thread very much
Aug 27 06:38:21 <unique311> but it seems like it got shut down, when barry was attacked.
Aug 27 06:39:04 <unique311> what ever happen to just walking away.
Aug 27 06:39:09 <milhouse> didn't we have this discussion before? or maybe it's another forum i'm thinking of
Aug 27 06:40:07 <unique311> can't wait to make senior member on ITT
Aug 27 06:40:09 <milhouse> let me guess, you had two schools of thought and they each tried to convience the other they were right and it all got messy?
Aug 27 06:40:19 <unique311> 500 more post should do the trick
Aug 27 06:40:32 <unique311> pretty much
Aug 27 06:41:08 <unique311> but the senior members came out on top i think.
Aug 27 06:41:16 <unique311> last posts
Aug 27 06:41:32 <milhouse> hmmm... not really sure this "senior member" thing carries much weight :)
Aug 27 06:42:56 <unique311> not sure also, but i still gotta get the post count up, I'll let you know when i get the title.
Aug 27 06:43:10 <unique311> might just ask for a thread to be shut down to test it out.
Aug 27 06:43:19 <unique311> never know
Aug 27 06:44:29 <timeless> good morning vietnam
Aug 27 06:44:47 <unique311> hello
Aug 27 06:45:06 <milhouse> hello timeless... are you responsible for spamming my inbox with updated bugs? :)
Aug 27 06:49:39 <timeless> yes
Aug 27 06:49:59 <timeless> the hope is to have a bugzilla which is actually usable
Aug 27 06:50:17 <timeless> i'm almost done, i think there are about 200 more bugs that might need new homes
Aug 27 06:50:24 <milhouse> looks like you've had a busy weekend! yes, the changes do seem to be a definite improvement
Aug 27 06:50:25 <timeless> it looks liek a number of those are waiting for me to build homes
Aug 27 06:50:37 <timeless> s/liek/like/
Aug 27 06:50:37 <infobot> timeless meant: it looks like a number of those are waiting for me to build homes
Aug 27 06:52:29 * timeless grumbles
Aug 27 06:52:39 <timeless> gecko's form fill behavior isn't ideal
Aug 27 07:07:02 <milhouse> i'm guessing reggie closed that thread because it was degenerating into personal attacks... and anything interesting had already been said with half a dozen different analogies. probably would have been left open if it weren't for the personal abuse, which is unecessary but inevitable. :(
Aug 27 07:12:25 * timeless frowns
Aug 27 07:13:18 <unique311> i'm over it.
Aug 27 07:13:28 <unique311> well not really
Aug 27 07:17:32 <unique311> i liked the example situations that were being thrown out.
Aug 27 07:19:08 <unique311> but like i said in my post, when it comes down to it, you don't need a good lawyer,  a public defender can get you off that charge.
Aug 27 07:19:47 <milhouse> i'd rather not put it to the test :)
Aug 27 07:20:29 <unique311> my N800 was purchase knowing that in NYC i can connect on any corner to connection that was open
Aug 27 07:20:34 <milhouse> to be honest, anyone operating an open network out of sheer ignorance should be locked up.
Aug 27 07:21:47 <milhouse> unless the network is being offered for public use I think it's a very grey area.
Aug 27 07:23:46 <milhouse> and the owner of the open network might have a tough time explaining away all the illegal porn that has been downloaded over his connection...
Aug 27 07:25:12 <milhouse> network owners should put "PUBLIC" or some other keyword in the SSID if it's available for public access... otherwise assume it's not. whatever happened to warchalking?
Aug 27 07:30:38 <milhouse> timeless - bug 532 can now be closed, i reckon
Aug 27 07:30:38 <_Monkey> Bug 532 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=532
Aug 27 08:08:12 <AD-N770> good morning
Aug 27 08:16:12 <mk8> Hi to all
Aug 27 08:27:02 <kulve> AD-N770: you pinged me during the weekend?
Aug 27 08:34:30 <AD-N770> kulve: hi
Aug 27 08:34:31 <_Monkey> privet, AD-N770
Aug 27 08:35:01 <AD-N770> what _Monkey ?
Aug 27 08:35:01 <_Monkey> _Monkey is, like, an annoying bot
Aug 27 08:35:58 <AD-N770> kulve: http://www.arm.com/pdfs/aapcs.pdf, what do you understand about vfp registers ?
Aug 27 08:36:46 <AD-N770> kulve: at 5.1.2.1
Aug 27 08:38:12 <kulve> not much ;)
Aug 27 08:43:21 <AD-N770> I'm worried about "Registers s16-s31 (d8-d15, q4-q7) must be preserved across subroutine calls"
Aug 27 08:43:58 <AD-N770> do you understand that I should stack/unstack that set of registers in my liboil functions ?
Aug 27 08:51:43 <kulve> nope, I don't work that low level..
Aug 27 09:34:44 <timeless> hello world
Aug 27 09:35:03 <timeless> to people using bugs.maemo.org, if you see <?> characters in people's real names, please let me know
Aug 27 09:35:33 <timeless> bugs.maemo.org is configured to use UTF8, and i've recoded all the people i could find who were using ISO-8859-1
Aug 27 09:37:10 * timeless finds a user hiding in @*.cat
Aug 27 09:39:49 <florian> good morning
Aug 27 09:53:44 * timeless sighs
Aug 27 10:22:03 <erstazi> morning everyone
Aug 27 10:25:28 <florian> hello erstazi
Aug 27 10:28:28 <erstazi> how are you, florian?
Aug 27 10:28:44 <florian> erstazi: busy like always ;)
Aug 27 10:28:50 <erstazi> heh
Aug 27 10:29:27 <erstazi> hello konttori
Aug 27 10:29:34 <konttori> hi
Aug 27 10:29:35 <_Monkey> salut, konttori
Aug 27 10:46:25 <kulve> konttori: why doesn't ukmp debian package depend on the other packages it needs to start up?
Aug 27 10:46:56 <konttori> Because I thought that the python installation contained all of them
Aug 27 10:46:56 <kulve> I tried running it, but I couldn't guess all the needed dependencies
Aug 27 10:47:01 <konttori> PIL is a kind of special case
Aug 27 10:47:30 <konttori> I've been considering dropping it as PIL is only included in the most recent python version
Aug 27 10:47:46 <kulve> the first two I found and istalled, but I couldn't find this PIL thing, so I couldn't run it
Aug 27 10:47:52 <konttori> and people who have python 2.4 have too many steps to upgrade to taht
Aug 27 10:48:03 <konttori> well, for PIL you need the latest python
Aug 27 10:48:13 <konttori> http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html
Aug 27 10:49:45 <konttori> Quite many other people have had the same problem. I'll probably add some try catch loop for the next version to skip the dependency.
Aug 27 10:50:48 <kulve> if ukmp depends on python2.5-runtime package, it really should say it in the debian package..
Aug 27 10:52:55 <erstazi> kulve: for when I looked, it said it depends on that
Aug 27 10:53:03 <konttori> I put the dependency there now. It was depending on python runtime or python 2.5
Aug 27 10:53:09 <erstazi> or wait, it said python-runtime and not python2.5-runtime
Aug 27 10:55:11 <kulve> konttori: hmm.. I installed python2.5-runtime and now it works. So I think it should depend directly on that? And I think most people have extras on repository list already, so there shouldn't be any problems (well, maybe, if the python needs to be upgraded or something..)
Aug 27 10:55:50 <konttori> python depends on some other repo as well.
Aug 27 10:56:08 <konttori> anyway, you are probably right. Next version will depend on only the 2.5 version
Aug 27 10:56:21 <erstazi> I think if you apt-get install python2.5-runtime then it installs python2.5 as well
Aug 27 10:57:35 <kulve> konttori: according to the url you gave me, the python-runtime needs only the extras repo (at least the .install doesn't include others). Hmm. or was it so that the app.mgr. doesn't know how to add multiple repositories.. Well, worksforme.
Aug 27 10:58:15 <konttori> there was that base repo. I didn't what repo that includes
Aug 27 10:58:33 <konttori> deb http://repository.maemo.org gregale free non-free
Aug 27 10:58:40 <konttori>  deb http://repository.maemo.org bora free non-free
Aug 27 10:58:57 <konttori> So, it needs extras and that repository.maemo.org
Aug 27 10:59:29 <konttori> don't know why all that stuff isn't just in the extras repo
Aug 27 11:00:01 <erstazi> hello sameo
Aug 27 11:05:54 <kulve> konttori: can be. I have the base repo and the extras..
Aug 27 11:08:04 <kulve> and yes, I noticed only now that the url had two .install files.. I just ignored the other button first..
Aug 27 11:08:43 <erstazi> kulve: do you have OS2006 or OS2007?
Aug 27 11:08:48 <kulve> 7
Aug 27 11:09:25 <erstazi> ok
Aug 27 11:13:03 <konttori> could it be that the other one is needed for it 2006?
Aug 27 11:50:28 * timeless findds a cool bug
Aug 27 11:51:06 <timeless> hello world
Aug 27 11:51:10 <timeless> i'm taking a survey
Aug 27 11:51:26 <timeless> if you were going to file a bug in bugs.maemo.org about "Device lock", where would you expect it to be?
Aug 27 11:52:18 * timeless pokes kulve and konttori
Aug 27 11:53:53 <melmoth> Desktop ?
Aug 27 11:53:54 <_Monkey> Desktop is a product
Aug 27 11:54:04 <melmoth> there is no 'bas os' or something product
Aug 27 11:54:09 <melmoth> basE os.
Aug 27 11:54:10 <kulve> timeless: in current bugzilla?
Aug 27 11:54:19 <timeless> kulve: no, in ideal but based on current
Aug 27 11:54:40 <timeless> melmoth: we have Desktop, System management and System software or something
Aug 27 11:54:47 <kulve> sry, I don't have time to start planning bugzilla component organisation
Aug 27 11:54:49 <timeless> but you still have to tell me which to choose
Aug 27 11:55:07 <timeless> just pick one of those three
Aug 27 11:55:18 <kulve> sys. sw
Aug 27 11:55:24 <melmoth> i would pick desktop
Aug 27 11:55:29 <melmoth> https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi
Aug 27 11:55:39 <melmoth> System software is suppose to be hildon specific
Aug 27 11:55:51 <timeless> melmoth: the description needs an update
Aug 27 11:55:55 <timeless> it include the xserver
Aug 27 11:56:01 <timeless> but i think i'm going to pick Desktop
Aug 27 11:56:21 <timeless> s/include/includes/
Aug 27 11:59:02 * timeless ponders
Aug 27 12:04:50 <timeless> wow, i found a second spam entry in bugs.maemo
Aug 27 12:05:58 <timeless> ok, if someone wants to see something which is presumably adult spam, there's one attachment that isn't hidden, you're welcome to search for it
Aug 27 12:06:04 <timeless> the plain text seems to be italian :)
Aug 27 12:12:06 <c0ffee> that was easy to spot
Aug 27 12:12:20 <timeless> you found it?
Aug 27 12:12:33 <c0ffee> there are only ~200 bugs with an attachment
Aug 27 12:12:44 <timeless> heh
Aug 27 12:12:53 <c0ffee> just search for the word 'attachment'
Aug 27 12:19:22 <konttori_> timeless: I guess you decided it will fall into the system software category. What kind of bug is it (apart from jamming the system)?
Aug 27 12:19:40 <konttori_> ahh... sorry, desktop.
Aug 27 12:20:45 <konttori_> I would choose system software (otoh, might depend on the root cause of the bug)
Aug 27 12:21:15 <timeless> konttori: i've stuck a few bugs in already
Aug 27 12:21:28 <timeless> you can review them and we can move the component later if people think i made the wrong decission
Aug 27 12:21:39 <timeless> amusingly, i can't check the internal system for reference
Aug 27 12:21:43 <timeless> there is no component for it :)
Aug 27 12:21:55 <timeless> (there is for the localization, and the specification)
Aug 27 12:22:20 <konttori_> way to go!
Aug 27 12:22:55 <db48x> timeless: is there a tinderbox or buildbot setup for microb?
Aug 27 12:26:23 <timeless> db48x: there's a tinderbox internally
Aug 27 12:26:43 <timeless> actually, i think it's public
Aug 27 12:27:30 <timeless> http://tinderbox.mozilla.org/showbuilds.cgi?tree=MozillaTest&maxdate=1185798427&legend=0
Aug 27 12:27:37 <timeless> we think that XULRunner min % is ours :)
Aug 27 12:28:49 <timeless> yeah
Aug 27 12:29:41 <timeless> ok, so it turns out we only have 2 hits by this guy
Aug 27 12:29:59 <timeless> he's also responsibl for the bug i stuck in my graveyard
Aug 27 12:30:03 <timeless> s/l /le /
Aug 27 12:30:05 <infobot> timeless meant: he's also responsible for the bug i stuck in my graveyard
Aug 27 12:30:56 <db48x> heh
Aug 27 12:31:54 <timeless> ok. i've made that attachment as hard to reach as  i can i believe in the current bugzilla
Aug 27 12:32:10 <timeless> on bmo, i'd set the private group feature and group it
Aug 27 12:32:55 <c0ffee> you can mark it as confidential i think
Aug 27 12:33:03 <c0ffee> like a 0day sploit
Aug 27 12:33:04 <timeless> the bug is technically valid
Aug 27 12:33:13 <timeless> so it'd be rude of me to hide it
Aug 27 12:33:18 <timeless> just because a spammer attacked it
Aug 27 12:33:37 <c0ffee> did you just work on the 'make logo configureable'?
Aug 27 12:33:42 <timeless> yes
Aug 27 12:33:48 <c0ffee> that was marked won't fix anyway :-/
Aug 27 12:33:51 <timeless> are you getting bugmail for it?
Aug 27 12:33:56 <c0ffee> i've reported it
Aug 27 12:34:03 <timeless> oh, heh, hi
Aug 27 12:34:08 <timeless> well, it is configurable
Aug 27 12:34:14 <timeless> my 770 has a vista boot logo
Aug 27 12:34:20 <timeless> and i used a deb to get that
Aug 27 12:34:35 <c0ffee> not in a point and click manner
Aug 27 12:34:40 <timeless> btw: i'm sorry spammer attacked your bug
Aug 27 12:34:46 <c0ffee> nevermind :)
Aug 27 12:34:51 <c0ffee> procmail's working
Aug 27 12:34:53 <timeless> i've renamed him and disabled his account to clarify matters
Aug 27 12:35:23 <c0ffee> i've made the rc.d script that displays the logo configurable so it reads the filename to display from /etc/default/somefileiforgot
Aug 27 12:35:37 <c0ffee> it's just missing a nice gui to edit that file
Aug 27 12:35:57 <timeless> anyway, imo the place for the ui would be control panel
Aug 27 12:36:01 <timeless> so that's i believe where i moved your bug
Aug 27 12:36:12 <timeless> nokia 770 is being evacuated
Aug 27 12:36:53 <timeless> bug 459, input method framework or virtual keyboard?
Aug 27 12:36:53 <c0ffee> i should file some more bugs :)
Aug 27 12:36:54 <_Monkey> Bug 459 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=459
Aug 27 12:37:08 <timeless> c0ffee: wait until i kill a few things? :)
Aug 27 12:37:14 * timeless needs to file a bug about device lock
Aug 27 12:37:39 <c0ffee> you could make the 'device plays dead' bug as 'grave'
Aug 27 12:37:47 <timeless> heh
Aug 27 12:37:57 <timeless> i renamed graveyard Misfiled or something like that
Aug 27 12:38:09 <timeless> i believe it's now public, so people can move e.g. the gaim bug to it
Aug 27 12:39:28 * timeless sighs bug 460 needs a home
Aug 27 12:39:28 <_Monkey> Bug 460 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=460
Aug 27 12:40:16 * timeless grumbles
Aug 27 12:40:21 <timeless> there's an applications/core?
Aug 27 12:40:27 * timeless will have to kill that too
Aug 27 12:41:09 <db48x> so the only tinderbox you guys have is on tinderbox.mozilla.org?
Aug 27 12:41:26 <timeless> i think there's an internal server too, do you have vpn keys?
Aug 27 12:41:56 <db48x> nope
Aug 27 12:42:09 <timeless> so which kind of question are youasking?
Aug 27 12:42:41 <db48x> if you guys have a tinderbox that builds microb, then I can create one that runs tests
Aug 27 12:42:47 <db48x> namely pageload
Aug 27 12:43:21 <db48x> crazy, I know
Aug 27 12:43:32 <timeless> sorry, i cna't follow
Aug 27 12:43:53 <timeless> how does our having a tinderbox you can't see help you make a tinderbox w/ pageload tests?
Aug 27 12:47:15 * sp3000 grumbles at the subversion ui thing
Aug 27 12:47:20 <timeless> fwiw, i'm not registered either
Aug 27 12:47:30 <timeless> so i can't send back :). but good to hear, i don't think i had
Aug 27 12:47:54 <sp3000> so if I have an $Id$ in a file, browsing that in the undecorated web interface shows the $Id$ rather than its expanded contents
Aug 27 12:48:01 <sp3000> which is nice and useless
Aug 27 12:48:33 <db48x> timeless: heh
Aug 27 12:48:36 <db48x> freenode is such a pain
Aug 27 12:48:42 <timeless> use moznet
Aug 27 12:48:50 <db48x> sure
Aug 27 12:49:06 <db48x> I looked in here because your idle time there is obscene :)
Aug 27 12:52:07 <sp3000> all of them? :)
Aug 27 12:52:15 <timeless> heh
Aug 27 12:52:49 * sp3000 reverts to sloppy manual versioning
Aug 27 13:03:17 <timeless> hrm, is glib distinct from glibc?
Aug 27 13:04:01 <melmoth> yep
Aug 27 13:04:23 <melmoth> glib is the gtk main library
Aug 27 13:04:33 <melmoth> glibc is the c main library
Aug 27 13:04:43 <melmoth> or sort of :)
Aug 27 13:05:39 <timeless> bug 752: iconv or glibc?
Aug 27 13:05:40 <_Monkey> Bug 752 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752
Aug 27 13:07:44 <melmoth> no idea.
Aug 27 13:13:49 <mgedmin> iconv is part of glibc, I think
Aug 27 13:14:07 <mgedmin> well, iconv is the name of the API, gconv is the name of the implementation of iconv that's a part of the gnu libc
Aug 27 13:14:40 <mgedmin> bug 752 should be assigned to libc, I think
Aug 27 13:14:40 <_Monkey> Bug 752 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=752
Aug 27 13:14:53 <mgedmin> _Monkey: yes, we know, you said that nine minutes ago
Aug 27 13:14:53 <_Monkey> mgedmin: excuse me?
Aug 27 13:14:54 <mgedmin> silly bot
Aug 27 14:37:23 <dazgard> hi
Aug 27 14:37:49 <dazgard> i've dowloaded the nasa world map with teh links provided by gpsdrive
Aug 27 14:38:02 <dazgard> how can i use them with maemo-mapper please ?
Aug 27 14:52:28 <xorAxAx> can i somehow list/install the maemo packages via the package manager on my os 2006 device?
Aug 27 14:53:04 <kikka> Can i install google earth or somthing like google earth on n770?
Aug 27 14:55:28 <Veggen> google earth is a closed-source, winelib-based program, right? So I'd guess no.
Aug 27 14:58:41 <dazgard> gg eath on n770 ??
Aug 27 14:59:55 <dazgard> does the device even have enough resources for that purposes ?
Aug 27 15:00:11 <dazgard> hmmm, not sure
Aug 27 15:00:17 <xorAxAx> hmm, my n770 has a dead-on-arival issues: the loudspeaker (and headphone jack) only generate noise when some app is run. is that a known problem?
Aug 27 15:00:28 <twobithacker> I think it'd be difficult without more ram and a 3d accelerator
Aug 27 15:04:55 <sbaturzio> ma a che caspio serve pango in Gnome?
Aug 27 15:10:28 <timeless> is there a maemo-launcher component?
Aug 27 15:10:55 <timeless> xorAxAx: google: red pill
Aug 27 15:11:12 <xorAxAx> timeless: ok
Aug 27 15:14:26 <timeless> oh, someone help me
Aug 27 15:14:30 <timeless> nokia 770:hardware
Aug 27 15:14:35 <timeless> where do i stick these things?
Aug 27 15:37:27 <flo> Hi ! I got an N800 and the email client that comes with it shows mails in my inbox that have long been deleted/moved (using imap) how can i change that ? Thanks!
Aug 27 15:41:39 <timeless> so, anyone alive?
Aug 27 15:41:54 * celesteh dies
Aug 27 15:43:28 <robtaylor> flo: wait until Modest comes out
Aug 27 15:44:48 <flo> robtaylor: Modest ?
Aug 27 15:44:48 <_Monkey> it has been said that Modest is an email client built on libtinymail
Aug 27 15:45:06 <flo> So it's another mailclient ?
Aug 27 15:45:09 <timeless> yes
Aug 27 15:45:31 <flo> Hmm but will it be as well integrated ?
Aug 27 15:45:41 <robtaylor> flo: i'd expect so
Aug 27 15:46:13 <robtaylor> flo: http://modest.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 27 15:46:36 <timeless> ok, bugs.maemo.org nokia 770 is almost empty
Aug 27 15:47:45 <flo> robtaylor: Cool sounds good :)
Aug 27 16:00:36 <Blacksitox> re
Aug 27 16:04:28 <xorAxAx> when using the default program manager, can i somehow install all updates at once?
Aug 27 16:10:35 <konttori> Is modest coming out in the next firmware?
Aug 27 16:16:24 <konttori> timeless: Apparently I'm no the only one wanting page up / down keys for microb: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71390#post71390
Aug 27 16:16:56 <konttori> Please add support for dpad up /down -> page up / down configuration
Aug 27 16:17:53 <konttori> I actually switched back to opera for the same reason for now.
Aug 27 16:18:50 <konttori> I usually read planet like sites where I have long pages. It's nice to read such pages when you can just click one button to scroll to new content.
Aug 27 16:19:34 <flo> konttori: full ack
Aug 27 16:23:19 <tobmaster> hi
Aug 27 16:23:20 <_Monkey> privet, tobmaster
Aug 27 16:24:13 <tobmaster> damn i forgot henris nick :)
Aug 27 16:38:36 <saaib> argh! my screen went nuts! lines and blury crap
Aug 27 16:38:41 <saaib> (770)
Aug 27 16:39:46 <cosmo> saaib: if reflashing doesn't help, it's the wsod hardware failure
Aug 27 16:39:56 <saaib> is this something related to the X server setup?
Aug 27 16:40:16 <saaib> I can see the shadows of the menus when I tap on the screen
Aug 27 16:40:29 <cosmo> no, it's broken hardware. i hope you still have warranty time left
Aug 27 16:40:31 <Juhaz> weird, wsod's still happen? one would assume the hardware failure had been triggered ages ago on devices as old as 770
Aug 27 16:40:59 <cosmo> i had the first (reported) one
Aug 27 16:46:28 <xorAxAx> warranty is usually handled via a dealer, right?
Aug 27 16:48:07 <pupnik_> is there some award for most innovative and useful tablet app?
Aug 27 16:48:12 <pupnik_> *new application*
Aug 27 16:48:30 <xorAxAx> how about a useful calendar? :)
Aug 27 16:48:40 <xorAxAx> anything else wont get any points from me
Aug 27 16:55:32 <sp3000> I bet a lolcatstreamer would
Aug 27 16:55:53 * k-s[WORK] is away: lunch
Aug 27 16:58:52 <xorAxAx> pupnik_: do you know datebk?
Aug 27 16:59:06 <pupnik_> no
Aug 27 16:59:13 <xorAxAx> the only really useful calendaring application - palm only unfortunately :-(
Aug 27 16:59:30 <pupnik_> have you tried our palm emulator?
Aug 27 16:59:46 <pupnik_> unique311 did some good work on that
Aug 27 17:00:44 <xorAxAx> pupnik_: neat, will have a look.
Aug 27 17:00:55 <xorAxAx> but synchronization might be hard in such a case
Aug 27 17:01:47 <pupnik_> synch with what?
Aug 27 17:02:10 <pupnik_> i think it should be possible to get networking going - just haven't looked into it yet
Aug 27 17:03:02 <pupnik_> $27.95 btw
Aug 27 17:05:35 <xorAxAx> pupnik_: well, evolution with datebk e.g.
Aug 27 17:06:20 <pupnik_> do you have n800?
Aug 27 17:07:19 <xorAxAx> pupnik_: n770
Aug 27 17:07:33 <xorAxAx> does the n800 have a calendar?
Aug 27 17:07:36 <pupnik_> 770 version needs work
Aug 27 17:08:27 <xorAxAx> ah
Aug 27 17:08:42 <xorAxAx> well, i am not planning to use closed source for the calendar :)
Aug 27 17:08:58 <xorAxAx> thats why i am thinking about spending some time on the issue myself
Aug 27 17:09:22 <simon_> hi ... is garage.maemo.org down?
Aug 27 17:09:22 <pupnik_> hmm garage seems down
Aug 27 17:09:25 <simon_> ;)
Aug 27 17:09:27 <simon_> ok ;)
Aug 27 17:12:01 <pupnik_> http://www.pimlicosoftware.com/datebk6details.htm  xorAxAx looks very well laid out
Aug 27 17:13:08 <xorAxAx> yes, as i said - there is no better one :)
Aug 27 17:13:19 <xorAxAx> feature- and usability-wise
Aug 27 17:13:38 <xorAxAx> and it even maps al features to the limited file format that the standard calendar defines
Aug 27 17:13:53 <xorAxAx> --> full compatiblity
Aug 27 17:14:12 <xorAxAx> (e.g. templates are saved to be at the day 1970-01-01 or something like that :))
Aug 27 17:15:39 <pupnik_> boy the ITT gaming forum is just burning hot with activity (not)
Aug 27 17:29:23 <timelyx> konttori: i suspect we're accepting patches
Aug 27 17:29:42 <timelyx> except, i don't think the ui is open, so i don't really know how you'd do it
Aug 27 17:29:59 <timelyx> in xul based apps proper, you'd use xbl bindings
Aug 27 17:32:07 <Blacksitox> re
Aug 27 17:33:30 <cwong1> If my app has been hildonized, does the "Panning" feature comes free by default or do I have to implement some code to get that?
Aug 27 17:34:30 <nomis> cwong1: panning as in the browser? This is something you have to do yourself.
Aug 27 17:35:20 <cwong1> nomis: Panning as in the browser.  Can you give me a pointer to what I need to do?
Aug 27 17:35:26 <timelyx> cwong1: sorry
Aug 27 17:35:32 <timelyx> panning in opera was implemented by opera
Aug 27 17:35:40 <timelyx> and you don't want to look at panning in the browser
Aug 27 17:36:31 <nomis> cwong1: I actually have no idea, but I guess you need to track the events from the stylus (AKA Mouse) and redraw your window appropriately.
Aug 27 17:36:47 <nomis> doing this in a speedy manner might be the biggest problem there.
Aug 27 17:36:51 <cwong1> Does the mozilla based browser created by nokia support panning?
Aug 27 17:37:02 <timelyx> cwong1: yes
Aug 27 17:37:44 <cwong1> timelyx: So they have implemented that in their ui layer then.
Aug 27 17:37:46 <cwong1> ?
Aug 27 17:37:59 <tko> cwong1: you might want to look at evince, or our patch to gtkhtml for implementing panning
Aug 27 17:38:36 <cwong1> tko: can u give me the link to evince?
Aug 27 17:38:43 <xorAxAx> hmm, how can i become root?
Aug 27 17:38:48 <xorAxAx> sudo asks for a password
Aug 27 17:38:50 <timelyx> cwong1: no, it's actually in the engine iirc, but you still don't want to look at the code
Aug 27 17:39:23 <tko> cwong1: but essentially it would be simply storing the (root) coordinates on button press, then after crossing the drag threshold start updating the scroll adjustments with the distance from the button press position
Aug 27 17:40:01 <tko> cwong1: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/evince/trunk/ -- forgot which file, sorry.. grep for button.press should help
Aug 27 17:40:25 <cwong1> tko: ok,  thanks.
Aug 27 17:41:26 <LadaPower> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot
Aug 27 17:42:12 <tko> cwong1: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/evince/trunk/shell/ev-view.c
Aug 27 17:44:29 <xorAxAx> thanks
Aug 27 17:44:43 <cwong1> tko: thanks
Aug 27 17:45:06 <LadaPower> Np
Aug 27 17:45:14 <LadaPower> :)
Aug 27 17:49:37 <kikka_> Can i get Skype under n770?
Aug 27 17:51:40 <sp3000> oof, roaming data prices
Aug 27 17:55:40 <cwong1> tko: how does evince determine whether the user want to do panning or to do a normal select?
Aug 27 17:56:10 <tko> cwong1: different button :)
Aug 27 17:56:22 <tko> cwong1: or that's what I'd expect.. you'd have to read the code
Aug 27 17:56:41 <timelyx> cwong1: this is why panning is a bad idea
Aug 27 17:56:42 <xorAxAx> can i easily use apt-get?
Aug 27 17:56:46 <cwong1> tko: ok
Aug 27 17:56:48 <xorAxAx> or would that break something?
Aug 27 17:56:56 <timelyx> xorAxAx: you can easily break something
Aug 27 17:57:00 <timelyx> but you can use it
Aug 27 17:57:20 <timelyx> easiest way to break everything is to change busybox
Aug 27 17:57:39 <xorAxAx> timelyx: "change"?
Aug 27 17:57:41 <tko> panning and selection conflict on user interaction level which makes it hard to support both
Aug 27 17:57:44 <xorAxAx> you mean replace the binary?
Aug 27 17:58:27 <cwong1> tko: Does Nokia's mozilla based browser support both?
Aug 27 17:58:44 <timelyx> the package
Aug 27 17:58:45 <_Monkey> i guess the package is missing libsvn somehow
Aug 27 17:58:48 <timelyx> cwong1: yes
Aug 27 17:58:53 <tko> I suppose you could have a selection/panning mode, or something like start selection when dragged horizontally, panning on vertical, or other less conflicting interactions
Aug 27 17:58:56 <timelyx> and oddly, in testing better than opera
Aug 27 17:59:00 <tko> tap-drag does selection IIRC
Aug 27 17:59:05 <timelyx> _Monkey: forget the package
Aug 27 17:59:07 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot package
Aug 27 17:59:09 * k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back.
Aug 27 17:59:12 <timelyx> _Monkey: package is <reply>
Aug 27 17:59:13 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Aug 27 17:59:33 <timelyx> cwong1: note that between google maps, google reader, and google docs and spreadsheets
Aug 27 17:59:38 <timelyx> the browser can't get the web right
Aug 27 18:00:12 <cwong1> iphone handles panning pretty well.
Aug 27 18:00:31 * sp3000 would tend to prefer modes
Aug 27 18:01:15 <timelyx> sp3000: i'm contemplating a way to get an onscreen overlay that lets you control a mouse cursor
Aug 27 18:03:12 <tko> we were also playing with the idea of doing panning when dragging quickly, and starting selection if you hold down the stylus/finger a little while before starting to drag, but it always gets down to awkward interactions
Aug 27 18:04:08 <sp3000> also
Aug 27 18:04:18 <sp3000> try context menu on a bus :)
Aug 27 18:04:39 <sp3000> that reminds me
Aug 27 18:04:56 <timelyx> heh
Aug 27 18:05:33 <sp3000> should file an rfe for long menu press to bring that up or something
Aug 27 18:05:45 <timelyx> i tried that
Aug 27 18:05:49 <timelyx> our ui designer vetos
Aug 27 18:05:55 <timelyx> i'm going to see about easter egging it
Aug 27 18:06:11 <timelyx> the ui designers really get on my nerves
Aug 27 18:06:21 <timelyx> all they've done is design extremely complex ui interactions
Aug 27 18:06:25 <sp3000> opening new windows on a bus? blasphemny!
Aug 27 18:06:31 <timelyx> at the expense of web interaction
Aug 27 18:06:35 <sp3000> Smny/my/
Aug 27 18:06:46 <timelyx> no, long press of menu to get context menu
Aug 27 18:06:49 <sp3000> s,S,s/,
Aug 27 18:07:24 <sp3000> hmm
Aug 27 18:07:28 <sp3000> s/hmm/foo/
Aug 27 18:07:28 <infobot> sp3000 meant: foo
Aug 27 18:07:38 <sp3000> s,hmm,bar,
Aug 27 18:07:53 <sp3000> I suppose that works but it's kinda less familiar
Aug 27 18:08:07 <sp3000> or, someone could shoot the bot :)
Aug 27 18:08:34 <timelyx> sorry, i figured out how to kill _Monkey
Aug 27 18:08:39 <sp3000> well, long press of menu to get context menu == opening new windows on a bus, roughly
Aug 27 18:08:39 <timelyx> i haven't figured out how to kill infobot
Aug 27 18:08:41 <timelyx> infobot help
Aug 27 18:08:43 <pupnik> you can leave off the trailing / to avoid activating the bot
Aug 27 18:11:18 <tko> timelyx: uh, vetoed with what argument?
Aug 27 18:11:28 <tko> seems sensible easter egg to me
Aug 27 18:11:40 <timelyx> tko: non standard iirc
Aug 27 18:12:06 <timelyx> tko: i'm actually trying to overload it slightly heavier than that
Aug 27 18:12:07 <sp3000> hahaha 18€/M
Aug 27 18:12:17 <DaniloCesar> tko /whois
Aug 27 18:12:17 <timelyx> specifically, if you hold the menu key and tap
Aug 27 18:12:18 <tko> but we already do context menu on long press (of stylus) ..
Aug 27 18:12:22 <timelyx> i want to trigger right click
Aug 27 18:12:27 <timelyx> tko: no, we don't
Aug 27 18:12:29 <timelyx> we=browser
Aug 27 18:12:35 <sp3000> ...standard? what standard :D
Aug 27 18:12:39 <timelyx> if you're on maps.google, long press is part of dragging the map
Aug 27 18:12:46 <timelyx> basically, the web is different
Aug 27 18:12:56 <timelyx> and whichever YOU UI designers are who made this mess
Aug 27 18:12:58 <tko> ugh
Aug 27 18:12:59 <timelyx> well, they made a mess
Aug 27 18:13:06 <timelyx> and i want to remove it all
Aug 27 18:13:24 <timelyx> panning and tap and hold are disasters for the web browser
Aug 27 18:13:34 <timelyx> since web apps can trap gestures
Aug 27 18:13:45 <timelyx> and in fact, they expect to be able to trap right gestures too :)
Aug 27 18:13:47 <tko> well, web apps are evil :)
Aug 27 18:13:59 <timelyx> ui designers who don't seriously consider the web are worse
Aug 27 18:14:16 <timelyx> and they're really ui not ue
Aug 27 18:15:08 <xorAxAx> hmm, why does the n770 reboot in an OOM condition?
Aug 27 18:15:16 <timelyx> feature
Aug 27 18:15:25 <timelyx> 99% of the system is life guarded
Aug 27 18:15:35 <timelyx> which means if a life guarded app dies, the device restarts
Aug 27 18:15:43 <timelyx> the apps are written using glib
Aug 27 18:15:46 <timelyx> which kills itself on oom
Aug 27 18:15:50 <xorAxAx> well, cant the OOM killer kick in first? :)
Aug 27 18:15:58 <xorAxAx> i tried evince
Aug 27 18:16:00 <timelyx> and kill what?
Aug 27 18:16:04 <xorAxAx> evince
Aug 27 18:16:08 <timelyx> most of the apps are life guarded :)
Aug 27 18:16:17 <timelyx> heck, on the 770 there was one app that wasn't properly lifeguarded
Aug 27 18:16:19 <xorAxAx> it had 5 threads and 16 MB RSS
Aug 27 18:16:23 <timelyx> so it'd get killed by the oom killer
Aug 27 18:16:26 <timelyx> and then respawned :)
Aug 27 18:16:40 <timelyx> it had resurrect, but not protect :)
Aug 27 18:16:50 <timelyx> fwiw, there are 2 versions of evince
Aug 27 18:16:55 <timelyx> i had the one that triggered oom reboots
Aug 27 18:16:59 <timelyx> you probably want the other one :)
Aug 27 18:17:10 <xorAxAx> hehe
Aug 27 18:17:34 <timelyx> believe me, i wasn't happy to find that part out
Aug 27 18:18:01 <timelyx> but, generally speaking, the platform is built on a really messed up foundation
Aug 27 18:18:14 <timelyx> glibc => glib => gdk => gtk => hildon
Aug 27 18:18:19 <timelyx> glib kills itself on oom
Aug 27 18:18:51 <derf> That's the way Linux works.
Aug 27 18:18:56 <timelyx> "works"
Aug 27 18:19:04 <timelyx> and that's not a requirement
Aug 27 18:19:10 <timelyx> you don't need to use glib
Aug 27 18:19:26 <timelyx> Qt, wX
Aug 27 18:19:45 <timelyx> nanox, wine
Aug 27 18:19:59 <derf> Linux actually allocates pages without testing if it really has pages to allocate.
Aug 27 18:20:04 <xorAxAx> in the repos that are configured, i am seeing two versions: 0.9.0-0indt1 and 0.8.1-0indt1
Aug 27 18:20:04 <timelyx> not true
Aug 27 18:20:07 <derf> The latter isn't done until the first page fault.
Aug 27 18:20:11 <timelyx> linux behavior is configurable
Aug 27 18:20:11 <xorAxAx> both in http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free
Aug 27 18:20:28 <timelyx> xorAxAx: i think you want the non indt one :)
Aug 27 18:20:39 <xorAxAx> what does indt mean? :)
Aug 27 18:20:39 <derf> First I've heard of it. Where do I configure it?
Aug 27 18:20:56 <timelyx>  /proc/sys/kernel/ something
Aug 27 18:21:19 <tko> but if you disable overcommit you'll die to OOM even sooner
Aug 27 18:21:35 <timelyx> on this system? absolutely :)
Aug 27 18:22:01 <derf> Well, the point was that that practice actually makes people write software that doesn't check for OOM.
Aug 27 18:22:26 <derf> Since malloc can return success, and the thing will still blow up on the first page fault, making it pointless to do so.
Aug 27 18:22:29 <timelyx> sorry /proc/vm
Aug 27 18:22:47 <timelyx> err /proc/sys/vm
Aug 27 18:22:48 * timelyx sighs
Aug 27 18:22:49 <xorAxAx> timelyx: do you know where i get the other package?
Aug 27 18:22:53 <derf> (checking for OOM makes code much more complex in a hurry)
Aug 27 18:23:08 <timelyx> err /proc/sys/vm/overcommit_memory
Aug 27 18:23:11 <timelyx> gppg;e fpr ot
Aug 27 18:23:17 <derf> Sure.
Aug 27 18:23:29 <timelyx> derf: depends on how you write your code
Aug 27 18:23:34 <tko> derf: and even if you could catch OOM, what would you do in a UI application?
Aug 27 18:23:38 <xorAxAx> timelyx: ?
Aug 27 18:23:41 <timelyx> it doesn't in js, or java, or perl, or python, or good c++
Aug 27 18:23:42 <derf> timelyx: It doesn't depend on how I write my code at all.
Aug 27 18:23:47 <timelyx> xorAxAx: i can't multitask
Aug 27 18:23:56 <derf> It depends on how thousands of other people write their code.
Aug 27 18:24:08 <xorAxAx> timelyx: then you need a better scheduler
Aug 27 18:24:16 <derf> And I'm saying having that be the default behavior encourages people to write code that ignores OOM.
Aug 27 18:25:52 <timelyx> derf: i'm saying i absolutely dislike glib
Aug 27 18:26:16 <timelyx> because even if i do manage to write an app that tolerates oom
Aug 27 18:26:34 <timelyx> i can't use it, because the system demands i use its broken libraries which kill my app when they hit oom
Aug 27 18:26:40 <timelyx> note: most platforms don't do this
Aug 27 18:26:53 <timelyx> and in the rare cases where they do, they're bugs that the vendor actually *fixes*
Aug 27 18:27:04 <derf> I'm not sure I agree with those last two statements.
Aug 27 18:27:40 <timelyx> derf: i've found bugs in parts of osx where the system failed to handle oom
Aug 27 18:27:45 <timelyx> newer versions of the code are fixed
Aug 27 18:28:12 <b0unc3> hello
Aug 27 18:28:51 <kikka_> hi
Aug 27 18:29:09 <xorAxAx> i think on windows, apps are simply stalled when they cant get memory
Aug 27 18:29:17 <xorAxAx> s/stalled/blocked/
Aug 27 18:29:17 <infobot> xorAxAx meant: i think on windows, apps are simply blocked when they cant get memory
Aug 27 18:29:26 <timelyx> mp
Aug 27 18:29:27 <timelyx> no
Aug 27 18:29:36 <timelyx> windows will return oom to windows apps
Aug 27 18:29:48 <derf> So your anecdotal evidence of one part of one system (that I don't even know is comparable OS X the kernel? The windowing libraries?), proves what, exactly?
Aug 27 18:29:52 <timelyx> believe me, i've triggered ooms on just about every platform imaginable
Aug 27 18:29:53 <xorAxAx> hmm
Aug 27 18:29:57 <xorAxAx> s/hmm/&m/
Aug 27 18:29:58 <infobot> xorAxAx meant: &m
Aug 27 18:30:02 <xorAxAx> no, i didnt :)
Aug 27 18:30:04 <xorAxAx> stupid bot
Aug 27 18:30:21 <timelyx>  /ignore
Aug 27 18:30:34 <timelyx> anyway, wrt evince, i've clearly uninstalled it
Aug 27 18:30:40 <timelyx> since all it did was trigger reboots
Aug 27 18:30:42 <tko> so, in UI app, what do you do when detecting OOM?
Aug 27 18:30:45 <timelyx> it wasn't a good thing to keep
Aug 27 18:30:51 <timelyx> tko: trigger a gc
Aug 27 18:30:57 <timelyx> drop caches
Aug 27 18:31:12 <timelyx> use your reserve to warn the user and try to let the user save state
Aug 27 18:32:20 <tko> that is assuming you are using gc, caches and have the reserve
Aug 27 18:33:34 <timelyx> if you care, you need a reserve, and gc/caches are well, optional of course
Aug 27 18:33:42 <timelyx> but in the case of big apps, you usually have at least one
Aug 27 18:34:56 <timelyx> tko: all things considered, the Notes app is fairly good in this area
Aug 27 18:35:16 <timelyx> it tends to save state so that when it dies (and it does, often), you can restart it and be happy
Aug 27 18:35:33 <timelyx> similarly, even firefox these days survives most crashes, because it's also saving most state
Aug 27 18:36:05 <tko> hmm, but state saving is quite different from catching and handling OOM
Aug 27 18:36:34 <timelyx> sure
Aug 27 18:36:39 <timelyx> but the point is to make the user happy
Aug 27 18:36:40 <[0J]> hi there .. can anyone help me with bluetooth dun?
Aug 27 18:36:42 <tko> timelyx: btw, how's the cross reference coming?
Aug 27 18:36:58 <timelyx> tko: well, garage is indexed, i need to go back to feeding it gnome
Aug 27 18:37:10 <timelyx> unfortunately, that's preempted by bugs.maemo.org reorg
Aug 27 18:37:13 <timelyx> which is also almost done
Aug 27 18:37:14 <_Monkey> okay, timelyx.
Aug 27 18:37:20 <timelyx> _Monkey: forget which
Aug 27 18:37:20 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot which
Aug 27 18:37:23 <timelyx> _Monkey: which is <reply>
Aug 27 18:37:24 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Aug 27 18:37:55 <timelyx> i might try tomorrow to setup a replacement sardine
Aug 27 18:39:48 <timelyx> tko: can you help?
Aug 27 18:40:02 <timelyx> there are 5 bugs in Nokia 770 not in the multimedia component
Aug 27 18:40:06 <timelyx> they need new homes
Aug 27 18:40:07 <tko> timelyx: I'm booked pretty much for the whole day
Aug 27 18:40:18 <DaniloCesar> tko, Are you the pyvirtkey developer?
Aug 27 18:40:35 <tko> DaniloCesar: nah, I was the maemo gtk maintainer
Aug 27 18:41:00 <DaniloCesar> nah?
Aug 27 18:41:07 <tko> no
Aug 27 18:41:08 <timelyx> nah ~ no
Aug 27 18:41:11 <DaniloCesar> ahh,. ok
Aug 27 18:41:17 <DaniloCesar> sorry
Aug 27 18:41:35 <tko> nah is no
Aug 27 18:41:43 <tko> hmph
Aug 27 18:41:57 <tko> I feel ignored :)
Aug 27 18:42:25 <lle2> fix dvfs and feel the love
Aug 27 18:42:32 <keesj> tko: "was" does not sound good
Aug 27 18:42:43 <timelyx> tko: suggest component moves and i'll listen
Aug 27 18:42:56 <timelyx> i'm making a multimedia component, do i move image viewer, fm radio, camera to it? :)
Aug 27 18:43:03 <tko> keesj: well, I'm still working on gtk but xan has the responsibility :)
Aug 27 18:43:43 <tko> timelyx: no comments, really.. reorg is your project anyway :)
Aug 27 18:43:52 <qgil> tko: hey, hey
Aug 27 18:43:56 <qgil> :)
Aug 27 18:43:58 <tko> we're even trying to move away from maemo.org bugzilla :-P
Aug 27 18:44:08 <timelyx> tko: to bugs.gnome? :)
Aug 27 18:44:10 <tko> 'lo
Aug 27 18:44:13 <tko> timelyx: yep
Aug 27 18:44:41 <timelyx> you planning on taking your bugs with you, or moving?
Aug 27 18:44:50 <timelyx> s/moving/leaving them behind/
Aug 27 18:44:51 <infobot> timelyx meant: you planning on taking your bugs with you, or leaving them behind?
Aug 27 18:45:06 <qgil> tko: it will be funny to teach users to distinguis Hildon bugs from the IT OS and submit them (obviously) in bugzilla.gnome.org
Aug 27 18:45:13 <tko> <jedimindtrick>what bugs?
Aug 27 18:45:26 <qgil> tko: I meant RFE
Aug 27 18:45:45 <tko> qgil: indeed.. we were wondering about whether we'll end up having three bugzillas in the end
Aug 27 18:46:06 <lle2> tko: just run the bugzilla on git and you're just fine
Aug 27 18:46:12 <tko> qgil: but then I figured DP team can process bugs in maemo and forward it to us in gnome :)
Aug 27 18:46:21 <lle2> tko: you can then push and pull and merge the bugs as much as you like
Aug 27 18:46:27 <qgil> tko: I'd suggest to keep a couple of garage projects with own tracker as well, and then when chosing a wiki do it with Trac so you can get also bug there  ;)
Aug 27 18:46:42 * timelyx chuckles
Aug 27 18:46:47 <timelyx> some of us use bugzilla.mozilla.org
Aug 27 18:46:48 <[0J]> anyone familiar with AT-commants?
Aug 27 18:46:53 <timelyx> ATA
Aug 27 18:46:53 <tko> lle2: someone was actually thinking of some sort of bug tracker on top / to use with git
Aug 27 18:46:57 <timelyx> +++ATH
Aug 27 18:46:59 <tko> +++ATH0
Aug 27 18:47:16 <tko> I guess no one is on dialup... :)
Aug 27 18:47:23 <timelyx> you're mean
Aug 27 18:47:47 <qgil> timelyx: in any case my +1 for your powered Multimedia product
Aug 27 18:47:54 <`0660> why? can you get to the internet without a dialup?
Aug 27 18:48:08 <`0660> :)
Aug 27 18:48:16 <[0J]> more connectivity .. never dpend on only one line ,_9
Aug 27 18:48:33 <tko> qgil: I'm not sure we can find anyone who'd want to use the gforge tracker...
Aug 27 18:48:41 <tko> without a significant raise at least
Aug 27 18:48:43 <timelyx> qgil: ok, i'll start doing it now then
Aug 27 18:49:10 <qgil> tko: well, I succeded getting one garage tracker deprecated - for the website component
Aug 27 18:49:20 <tko> \o/
Aug 27 18:49:26 <timelyx> qgil: i'd like to kill track if possible :)
Aug 27 18:49:41 <lle2> kill lotus notes while you're on the spree
Aug 27 18:49:43 <timelyx> can we just offer everyone bugzilla components on an upgraded bugs.maemo? :)
Aug 27 18:49:53 <timelyx> lle2: oh, i'd love to
Aug 27 18:49:58 <[0J]> +gcap: +fclass is what i get when my modem answers the first requests ... dont look likt the things most ppl get
Aug 27 18:50:00 <tko> lle2: +666
Aug 27 18:50:14 <GeneralAntilles> Where is the repository file for apt?
Aug 27 18:50:23 <timelyx>  /etc/apt/sources.list ?
Aug 27 18:50:29 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, thank you. :D
Aug 27 18:50:36 <GeneralAntilles> Couldn't remember. >>
Aug 27 18:52:24 <tko> qgil: I haven't been paying attention lately (holidays and all) ... have you managed to improve the responsiveness to the bug reports related to closed-ish source components?
Aug 27 18:52:48 <timelyx> qgil: i need to get you to check on this one hardware bug
Aug 27 18:53:00 <timelyx> i want to know if nokia fixed the guy's hardware
Aug 27 18:53:19 <qgil> tko:
Aug 27 18:53:24 <qgil> tko: where to start
Aug 27 18:53:33 <tko> sounds like a yes :)
Aug 27 18:53:53 <qgil> tko: let's see that I'm happy because things are moving but this is a second round
Aug 27 18:54:19 <qgil> tko: however, we are going to feel soon the effects of the first round - being this reorganization just the appetizer (hopefully)
Aug 27 18:54:27 <lle2> how many rounds are there before the winner is declared?
Aug 27 18:54:41 <timelyx> 7
Aug 27 18:54:54 <tko> my favorite one-digit number
Aug 27 18:55:02 <qgil> lle2: there are no winners in bug management. It's a sad activity. You should know that.  ;)
Aug 27 18:55:10 <lle2> :D
Aug 27 18:55:33 <timelyx> qgil: killing badly organized products is quite satisfiying
Aug 27 18:55:44 <timelyx> as is decommissioning bad bug trackers
Aug 27 18:55:45 <tko> the only winners in bug management are the managers who somehow get to justify their positions for a paycheck
Aug 27 18:56:04 <timelyx> personally, i think that winning is being able to show faster time to fix
Aug 27 18:56:30 <timelyx> and you do that by showing people that filing good, concise, reproducable bugs is the way to get them fixed faster
Aug 27 18:56:46 <qgil> timelyx: what hardware bug are you talking about?
Aug 27 18:57:41 <tko> just a random thought, one way to organize bugzilla would've been to look at the structure of the others menu :)
Aug 27 18:57:45 <timelyx> qgil: i'll have to look, iirc there was a bug in Mis*:Nokia about a cracked usb port
Aug 27 18:57:48 <lle2> people like to write crap bug reports, it's more satisfying when pissed off
Aug 27 18:58:01 <timelyx> tko: yeah, we considered that
Aug 27 18:58:07 <timelyx> the big problem is that others changes version to version
Aug 27 18:58:10 <timelyx> UI designers ++
Aug 27 18:58:18 <timelyx> i'm not making bugzilla polymorphic
Aug 27 18:58:28 <tko> it depends whether you consider bugzilla as a tool for end users, or developers
Aug 27 18:58:43 <timelyx> i am willing to make a custom form or html page that lets people find the right component for filing bugs
Aug 27 18:59:00 <lle2> it should be like the spam filters
Aug 27 18:59:02 <qgil> /qgil is relatively amazed about thie MOSH released by Nokia: there are tits all over and the most popular video is a Steve Jobs speech
Aug 27 18:59:11 <lle2> content based, bayesian or whatever
Aug 27 18:59:16 <tko> in any case, I think the interface for end users should have very coarse grained categorization and the developers would put the bugs in right components
Aug 27 18:59:51 <timelyx> tko: i'm fine w/ that, and i hope this is close enough to meeting that
Aug 27 18:59:53 <tko> for developers IMO the components should map to source packages
Aug 27 18:59:58 <timelyx> i don't expect users to file bugs in System software
Aug 27 19:00:13 <qgil> tko: I think end users will find what they are looking for since they probably are looking for apps, browser, multimedia or connectivity - the rest is just so obscure no matter how you organize it
Aug 27 19:00:21 <tko> :)
Aug 27 19:00:30 <timelyx> qgil: and desktop :(
Aug 27 19:00:32 <timelyx> but yeah
Aug 27 19:00:44 <qgil> desktop = obscure
Aug 27 19:00:49 <lle2> where would I file a bug in skype?
Aug 27 19:00:58 <timelyx> lle2: Communication
Aug 27 19:01:01 <lle2> which is probably in the dsp gateway
Aug 27 19:01:03 <qgil> lle2: no, Skype
Aug 27 19:01:12 <timelyx> lle2: Communication: Skype
Aug 27 19:01:16 <lle2> or multimedia framework
Aug 27 19:01:30 <lle2> or even more probably a combination of all of the above
Aug 27 19:01:34 <qgil> timelyx: we are not having a Skype component
Aug 27 19:01:45 <timelyx> qgil: we ship skype, no?
Aug 27 19:01:49 <timelyx> we have rhapsody components
Aug 27 19:01:50 <lle2> we donät
Aug 27 19:01:58 <lle2> donut
Aug 27 19:02:10 <timelyx> and we have an fm radio component
Aug 27 19:02:13 <lle2> we ship a link to an installer
Aug 27 19:02:15 <timelyx> and camera
Aug 27 19:02:16 <_Monkey> i think camera is so poor that the app thinks the "blurness" is movement
Aug 27 19:02:25 <timelyx> _Monkey forget camera
Aug 27 19:02:25 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot camera
Aug 27 19:02:31 <timelyx> _Monkey camera is <reply>
Aug 27 19:02:32 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Aug 27 19:02:59 <timelyx> sorry, watching smallville
Aug 27 19:03:55 <qgil> timelyx: you keep confusing maemo with IT OS & Nokia consumer applications :)
Aug 27 19:04:15 <qgil> timelyx: we *must* have all the stuff for developers + all the open source components
Aug 27 19:04:37 <qgil> timelyx: then, appart from this I'm advocating to have whatever is developed by Nokia in the IT OS and Tableteer etc
Aug 27 19:04:59 <qgil> timelyx: all the rest is third party, only exceptions should get in
Aug 27 19:05:01 <timelyx> qgil: well, um
Aug 27 19:05:28 <timelyx> who created these things
Aug 27 19:05:31 <timelyx> and do you want them dead?
Aug 27 19:05:48 <qgil> timelyx: or said in a different way, I don't see why we should open bugzilla component without agreeing with a partner this opening and their participation in it
Aug 27 19:06:06 <timelyx> hrm
Aug 27 19:06:14 <timelyx> interesting way to put it
Aug 27 19:06:34 <qgil> timelyx: I don't know who created them - and I don't know who created many things that perhaps make sense but in practice don't work
Aug 27 19:06:43 <lle2> debian accepts bugs for all of its packages, regardless of if the upstream gives a rats ass about them
Aug 27 19:06:52 <timelyx> qgil: there's another bugzilla for those products
Aug 27 19:06:59 <timelyx> i have access, and can refile them upstream
Aug 27 19:07:07 <qgil> lle2: you will notice more differences between Debian and maemo  :)
Aug 27 19:07:10 <timelyx> it's actually not restricted, you can get an account
Aug 27 19:07:27 <lle2> qgil: I'm having trouble seeing any similarities, to be honest
Aug 27 19:07:36 <timelyx> heh
Aug 27 19:07:38 <qgil> lle2: it was you who started the comparison
Aug 27 19:07:59 <lle2> qgil: yeah, but we're pretending that we're maintaining a "distro", no?
Aug 27 19:08:19 <qgil> lle2: no
Aug 27 19:08:22 <lle2> oh
Aug 27 19:08:28 <tko> btw, what was the reason for the extra hierarchy instead of having application==product as starting point?
Aug 27 19:08:55 <timelyx> too many top level products is painful
Aug 27 19:08:57 <lle2> qgil: the last time I talked with somebody we were, but I guess things change
Aug 27 19:09:09 <lle2> qgil: not that it matters much
Aug 27 19:09:11 <timelyx> you have to add versions for each
Aug 27 19:09:20 <timelyx> and then you have really useless component names
Aug 27 19:09:39 <timelyx> and if you do have a bug only slightly misfiled, it's moderately painful to move
Aug 27 19:09:51 <qgil> lle2: again, I'0m talking about *maemo* bugzilla and the discussion here is about IT OS software that is not open source, not copyrighted by Nokia and not intended to developers
Aug 27 19:10:20 <pupnik> happy funtime dsp news?
Aug 27 19:10:25 <lle2> qgil: would it still be bad to collect all problems with it?
Aug 27 19:10:41 <lle2> qgil: I mean, many of the perceived problems could be because of something else
Aug 27 19:10:58 <qgil> lle2: collect problems in components that receive no response? well, in my humble opinion we have delivered too mucn of this
Aug 27 19:11:02 <timelyx> lle2: there's one major hazard
Aug 27 19:11:07 <timelyx> not being responsive
Aug 27 19:11:15 <timelyx> i don't want to open up bugzilla to too many things
Aug 27 19:11:20 <timelyx> and be overwhelmed by things we can't handle
Aug 27 19:11:27 <qgil> lle2: I prefer to focus on the stuff we *must* do and can do, and when this is going like a charm the see if we want to aplify horizons
Aug 27 19:11:38 <timelyx> and don't, and then seem like an evil unresponsive corporation
Aug 27 19:11:43 <lle2> ok
Aug 27 19:11:52 <timelyx> we should work around a core
Aug 27 19:11:58 <timelyx> build up people, both inside and outside
Aug 27 19:12:06 <timelyx> then we can slowly add other things
Aug 27 19:12:08 <lle2> I'm going to the gym already
Aug 27 19:12:15 <tko> yeah, core is the root of all evil *g*
Aug 27 19:12:50 <lle2> maybe you guys have a point
Aug 27 19:13:36 <qgil> one more thng about skype
Aug 27 19:13:38 <qgil> http://skype.com/
Aug 27 19:13:38 <lle2> but skype screwing up the n800 within 15minutes of starting the call clearly means there's a major bug somewhere other than the skype sw itself
Aug 27 19:14:01 <qgil> where do you file a bug or even report that something is not working here?
Aug 27 19:14:21 <lle2> no idea, and I don't really care
Aug 27 19:14:24 <timelyx> personally, i find it odd that we have afaik all the others but not skype
Aug 27 19:14:26 <qgil> they are not doing this for themselves as far as I see - why should we open something for them, then
Aug 27 19:15:00 <timelyx> qgil: all things considered, we don't want too many bug trackers
Aug 27 19:15:07 <timelyx> the more bug trackers. the more complexity
Aug 27 19:15:14 <tko> qgil: https://developer.skype.com/jira/secure/Dashboard.jspa
Aug 27 19:15:23 <qgil> timelyx: I'm trying to tell you that Skype doesn't receive bugs report
Aug 27 19:15:25 <lle2> to get the damn errors recorded so that hiroshi can use that as basis of starting to guess where the problem might be
Aug 27 19:15:51 <qgil> ah cool so there we go:
Aug 27 19:16:09 <lle2> because it probably is not at all skype related, even if that triggers it
Aug 27 19:16:26 <lle2> but if people can't file it against that, where will they file it?
Aug 27 19:16:53 <erstazi> lle2: what app do you use to use skype?
Aug 27 19:17:01 <lle2> erstazi: skype?
Aug 27 19:17:01 <_Monkey> rumour has it skype is excited about the N800 too
Aug 27 19:17:29 <qgil> keeping my answer to tko:
Aug 27 19:17:37 <qgil> first what is maemo + IT OSS
Aug 27 19:17:51 <qgil> then what is closed + copyrighted by Nokia
Aug 27 19:18:05 <qgil> when this is in place, let's discuss about all the rest
Aug 27 19:18:10 <xorAxAx> hmm, did anyone port wesnoth?
Aug 27 19:18:12 <lle2> qgil: I have a personal interest in this because I filed a bug about skype and had to put against some picture viewer or something like that
Aug 27 19:18:24 <timelyx> heh
Aug 27 19:18:29 <lle2> qgil: and it never got any reply from anybody
Aug 27 19:18:36 <lle2> I think it's still there
Aug 27 19:19:05 <qgil> lle2: do you think Skype has the right to decide if they want a component in bugs.maemo.org not?
Aug 27 19:19:20 <lle2> qgil: they have no right
Aug 27 19:19:24 <derf> xorAxAx: Yes.
Aug 27 19:19:44 <robtaylor> qgil: they probably have a trademark on 'Skype'
Aug 27 19:19:55 <timelyx> they do
Aug 27 19:20:09 <derf> It runs exceeding slow and you _need_ a swap file or it will OOM all over the place, but it does work.
Aug 27 19:20:11 <lle2> qgil: besides, knowing certain things, it would help "us" if we collected the damn bugs in that damn thing
Aug 27 19:20:34 <xorAxAx> derf: :-)
Aug 27 19:20:36 <qgil> lle2: ok, noted
Aug 27 19:21:21 <timelyx> qgil: i agree w/ lle2 on that point
Aug 27 19:21:22 <qgil> lle2: still, people nowadays are mainly complaining about other stuff in our bugzilla, and it's about our responsiveness in our own components - this is where I'm focusing my (limited) energies now
Aug 27 19:21:41 <timelyx> but yes, responsiveness is more important in the short term
Aug 27 19:21:55 <lle2> qgil: skype is as close to being our own as it gets without it being
Aug 27 19:21:59 <timelyx> especially given that i doubt skype turnaround will be very fast
Aug 27 19:22:32 <lle2> qgil: same goes for flash
Aug 27 19:22:42 <timelyx> lle2: we have a flash component :)
Aug 27 19:22:49 <qgil> lle2: you download Skype, Flash is in the device
Aug 27 19:23:19 <timelyx> qgil: that doesn't explain camera/rhapsody/fm-radio
Aug 27 19:23:20 <qgil> lle2: anyway, I'm not saying you are not right
Aug 27 19:23:46 <erstazi> wait, who packaged Skype to work on OS2007?
Aug 27 19:23:47 <qgil> I'm only saying that first things first - I'm not lookign for an impossible perfection, just a little progress on every step
Aug 27 19:24:04 <qgil> now I couldn't care less about Skype bugs in bugs.maemo.org, really
Aug 27 19:24:06 <timelyx> erstazi: we probably can't say
Aug 27 19:24:20 <lle2> qgil: I think the important thing is to have a component for the top 10 apps people actually use on the device
Aug 27 19:24:22 <qgil> timelyx: camera `fm radio are developed by Nokia
Aug 27 19:24:42 <qgil> rhapsody - I can't care less either, and I don't know who created that component either
Aug 27 19:24:45 <timelyx> qgil: how much do you know about skype?
Aug 27 19:24:50 <timelyx>  /msg
Aug 27 19:25:20 <qgil> timelyx: I know about our contractual relation
Aug 27 19:25:26 <erstazi> lle2: where did you install skype from? can you check your applications manager and see who packaged it?
Aug 27 19:25:42 <lle2> erstazi: I know full well who did it
Aug 27 19:25:48 <erstazi> lle2: ok
Aug 27 19:26:00 <erstazi> lle2: well, actually I am just curious (:
Aug 27 19:26:07 <lle2> erstazi: :)
Aug 27 19:26:18 * zeenix doesn't know anything
Aug 27 19:26:42 <erstazi> and I suspected you downloaded it from http://www.skype.com/download/skype/mobile/n800/
Aug 27 19:27:41 <erstazi> then followed the deb to http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/
Aug 27 19:27:58 <jufo> so will be Modest available for N800 (betas before final?)
Aug 27 19:28:03 <jufo> when
Aug 27 19:28:16 <timelyx> jufo: it's doubtful we could say if we knew
Aug 27 19:28:24 <timelyx> those tend to be announced surprises
Aug 27 19:28:28 <qgil> jufo: you can try Modest already if you are able to compile it  :)
Aug 27 19:29:09 <timelyx> yeah, just get it from svn
Aug 27 19:29:23 <jufo> if it's usable, please release beta ;-)
Aug 27 19:29:44 <erstazi> jufo: you can always compile it and then be able to use it (:
Aug 27 19:29:49 <jufo> i guess it's not usable yeat
Aug 27 19:29:51 <jufo> yet
Aug 27 19:30:01 <qgil> Modest will probably follow a similar path then the Mozilla engine and the RTComm uopdate, yes
Aug 27 19:31:10 <qgil> so let me conclude about the previous discussion
Aug 27 19:31:31 <qgil> currently we are organbizing and cleaning components
Aug 27 19:31:49 <qgil> the orinciple is that every existing component should have direct maintainers behind
Aug 27 19:32:11 <qgil> being the developer-related components and the OSS developed by Nokia the required compoennts
Aug 27 19:32:46 <qgil> the next path to grow is non-open software developed and signed by Nokia
Aug 27 19:32:54 <qgil> if there is maintainer there will be component
Aug 27 19:33:18 <qgil> and when all this is working relatively well it will be much easier to "conquer" the rest that makes sense to conquer
Aug 27 19:33:29 <qgil> trying to get this final step without the previous...
Aug 27 19:33:39 <qgil> a) is almost a warranty of defeat and
Aug 27 19:33:53 <qgil> b) it has been tried in the past - and I'm not feeling like repeating known mistakes
Aug 27 19:34:23 <qgil> people can come and say how bad this is - fair enough, they probably have a point
Aug 27 19:34:31 <qgil> as far as there is progress, I'm happy though
Aug 27 19:34:41 <qgil> ufff, thanks  ;)
Aug 27 19:35:33 <lle2> so will skype get its own component? :)
Aug 27 19:36:02 * lle2 has trouble processing the set of rules governing component creation
Aug 27 19:36:03 <timelyx> lle2: sounds like a no. sorry, i've been convinced
Aug 27 19:36:18 <timelyx> atm, the rules are basically, i can create unless qgil vetos
Aug 27 19:36:24 <lle2> great
Aug 27 19:36:28 <timelyx> and i was delivered mine
Aug 27 19:36:43 <lle2> I'll file my next skype bug against the browser then
Aug 27 19:37:06 <timelyx> that's fine
Aug 27 19:37:27 <timelyx> i'll refile internally and move to the Misdirected:Nokia component
Aug 27 19:37:32 <timelyx> i'm quite serious
Aug 27 19:37:36 <amr> anyone here ever used theme maker?
Aug 27 19:37:47 <lle2> timelyx: ok
Aug 27 19:38:07 <timelyx> most likely your bug will be buried though as a condition of making qgil and powers that be happy
Aug 27 19:38:09 <jufo> yeah i am eagerly waiting for Modest, because default email client is totally unusable piece of shit, can not even read imap box which contains tons of email
Aug 27 19:38:23 <timelyx> jufo: gmail works nicely
Aug 27 19:38:32 <amr> i like the default email client
Aug 27 19:38:44 <lle2> now that's a first
Aug 27 19:38:58 <amr> although i hardcore use it or anything
Aug 27 19:39:16 <Dasaev> claws is good enought
Aug 27 19:39:23 <qgil> lle2: Communications / Internet Call - or what were you doing when you got the Skype bug?
Aug 27 19:40:20 <derf> amr: Jufo is right, the default client is completely unusable for large IMAP mailboxes.
Aug 27 19:40:23 <lle2> qgil: talking, but I can see how the gtalk/rtcomm guys are going to ignore my skype bug
Aug 27 19:40:36 <qgil> lle2: then it falls in the rtcom basket, and these guys will know better if it's a Skype problem or something related to our platform - and will act accordingly
Aug 27 19:40:39 <derf> It just eats up memory until it crashes.
Aug 27 19:40:51 <derf> Before displaying a single message.
Aug 27 19:41:22 <qgil> lle2: creating a Skype component is no warranty that the Skype developers will not ignore it either, as I'm trying to explain
Aug 27 19:41:46 <timelyx> we're not worrying about it being ignored
Aug 27 19:42:01 <qgil> timelyx: then Communications / Internet Call
Aug 27 19:42:18 <timelyx> if there's a way to gateway bugs to another bug tracker and keep tabs on it
Aug 27 19:42:20 <qgil> and the rtcom guyas are nice, I donp't believe they will ignore it
Aug 27 19:42:40 <amr> im more annoyed that the tablet doesnt seem to allow me to ping it
Aug 27 19:42:42 <amr> or to ssh in
Aug 27 19:45:05 <lle2> qgil: they compete with skype, no reason for them to want to process its bugs. but this is obviously not going anywhere and since skype doesn't really work on the tablet at the moment, it's not very likely that I'll be using it enough to file any more bugs about it either.
Aug 27 19:46:06 <amr> hm, this is worrying as it seems to happen all the time
Aug 27 19:46:22 <qgil> lle2: sorry but I don0t buy your story
Aug 27 19:46:40 <lle2> qgil: which story?
Aug 27 19:46:59 <qgil> lle2: they compete with skype, no reason for them to want to process its bugs
Aug 27 19:47:06 <qgil> lle2: first these guys are professional
Aug 27 19:48:31 <qgil> lle2: second, di you really want to help fixing Skype?
Aug 27 19:48:44 <qgil> lle2: if so, you have all the direct channels
Aug 27 19:55:53 <lle2> qgil: I don't care about skype enough to waste this much time on it, but I still think it's in the top 3 applications people would like to use on the tablet, not giving them an obvious place to file their bugs is of course an option. bedtime for me. c ya
Aug 27 19:56:24 <qgil> lle2: maemo is not IT OS + Nokia partners apps - so simple it is
Aug 27 19:56:43 <qgil> time for bed here as well, at least we agree on something lle2  :)
Aug 27 19:56:52 <lle2> nobody knows the difference
Aug 27 19:57:12 <erstazi> night qgil and lle2
Aug 27 19:57:19 <qgil> lle2: "open source development for Internet tablets"
Aug 27 19:57:39 <lle2> qgil: mostly just "software for internet tablets"
Aug 27 19:57:52 <qgil> if nobody knows, someone needs to explain in order to set the right expectations
Aug 27 19:58:15 <lle2> qgil: you still need closed code to have even marginally useful tablet
Aug 27 19:58:42 <qgil> lle2: a differencde between you and me is that ultimately I'm responsible of that bugzilla, this is perhaps a reason for me to have a conservative approach and try to solve first things first and leave for later what is not a core objective
Aug 27 19:59:13 <qgil> skype and the rest of commercial appñlications brought by Nokia partners are not a core objective of maemo
Aug 27 19:59:25 <qgil> nothing else to add, really. good night all  :)
Aug 27 19:59:55 <lle2> qgil: noted, I tend to approach it primarily from a nokia product perspective, not so much about the Free Software Platform. but good night to you as well :)
Aug 27 20:00:22 <qgil> nokia product = nokia.com i.e. tableteer  - zzzzzz   :)
Aug 27 20:00:59 <c0ffee> funny thing
Aug 27 20:00:59 <_Monkey> funny thing is that Kagu's UI was inspired by Canola and UKMP. I hadn't seen an iphone when I first designed it.
Aug 27 20:01:09 <c0ffee> a person just responsible for talking to 'the community'
Aug 27 20:01:12 <c0ffee> smart move actually
Aug 27 20:02:06 <robtaylor> c0ffee: i think canonical got there first ;)
Aug 27 20:02:27 <c0ffee> canonical?
Aug 27 20:02:47 <robtaylor> c0ffee: the company behind ubuntu
Aug 27 20:02:55 <c0ffee> ah
Aug 27 20:06:40 <ragnar> Good day.
Aug 27 20:07:40 <ragnar> Has anyone tried using synergy on the 770 or n800?
Aug 27 20:11:22 <timelyx> _Monkey forget funny thing
Aug 27 20:11:22 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot funny thing
Aug 27 20:11:27 <timelyx> _Monkey funny thing is <reply>
Aug 27 20:11:28 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Aug 27 20:11:52 <amr> i cant get either kagu or ukmp working
Aug 27 20:11:53 <amr> :-(
Aug 27 20:12:00 <amr> looks like its back to canola
Aug 27 20:12:41 <timelyx> c0ffee: you've been around a while
Aug 27 20:12:50 <timelyx> i'm retiring the 770 product
Aug 27 20:12:58 <timelyx> it had a combined component for audio/video player
Aug 27 20:13:20 <c0ffee> yes?
Aug 27 20:13:36 <timelyx> should i move it as is to multimedia, or split it into audio ; video
Aug 27 20:13:42 <timelyx> since they were distinct applications
Aug 27 20:13:47 <timelyx> thing is, they're both dead products
Aug 27 20:14:02 <c0ffee> hum
Aug 27 20:14:13 <c0ffee> does audio/video exist as components?
Aug 27 20:14:24 <c0ffee> i think it would be more intuitive to split it then
Aug 27 20:15:45 <timelyx> ok.
Aug 27 20:16:02 <timelyx> that's what i was leaning toward
Aug 27 20:16:04 <c0ffee> to a user, it looks like two distinct programs
Aug 27 20:16:13 * timelyx nods
Aug 27 20:27:14 <timelyx> sp3000? don't suppose you remember how i wass supposed to spell the media backend
Aug 27 20:27:23 <timelyx> Multimedia framework?
Aug 27 20:31:58 <timelyx> can someone please give me an argument for keeping a bug from mistral hidden?
Aug 27 20:34:34 <c0ffee> hidden?
Aug 27 20:34:44 <timelyx> yes
Aug 27 20:34:47 <c0ffee> does it preannounce new features?
Aug 27 20:34:54 <timelyx> no
Aug 27 20:34:57 <c0ffee> or contain security related information
Aug 27 20:35:04 <timelyx> well, if it does, they're long since released
Aug 27 20:35:23 <c0ffee> why was it hidden in the first place?
Aug 27 20:35:51 <timelyx> because testers file bugs about sdk's w/ sdk classifications before the sdks are released
Aug 27 20:36:04 <timelyx> e.g. someone filed a bug against the browser using the 4.0 classification
Aug 27 20:36:10 <timelyx> so i couldn't see the bug
Aug 27 20:36:20 <timelyx> which is great, since i'm kinda the browser architect...
Aug 27 20:36:22 <c0ffee> well, then it wouldn't need to be hidden any longer, right?
Aug 27 20:36:40 <timelyx> you're not doing a good job arguing in favor of keeping it hidden
Aug 27 20:37:05 <tko> it's a matter of national security. end of discussion :-P
Aug 27 20:37:14 <c0ffee> :)
Aug 27 20:37:22 <c0ffee> tko \o/
Aug 27 20:37:31 <timelyx> ok, simpler question, Multimedia:Multimedia framework, or Multimedia:Framework?
Aug 27 20:38:03 <tko> I'm from department of redundancy department, so what do I know?
Aug 27 20:38:19 * erstazi thinks "wget -rkp http://domain.com/" is purely amazing (:
Aug 27 20:38:19 <c0ffee> it will be listed as component/product, and not concatenated with :, right?
Aug 27 20:38:21 <c0ffee> the first then
Aug 27 20:38:50 <timelyx> it's often listed adjacent
Aug 27 20:39:01 <c0ffee> then the latter
Aug 27 20:41:54 <timelyx> could someone test bug 394 w/ 4.2007?
Aug 27 20:41:55 <_Monkey> Bug 394 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=394
Aug 27 20:56:10 <pupnik> synergy?
Aug 27 20:56:11 <_Monkey> somebody said synergy was mouse and keyboard sharing between desktop and tablet  http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb
Aug 27 20:56:17 <pupnik> ragnar ^^
Aug 27 20:56:34 <pupnik> need to update that
Aug 27 20:56:45 <timelyx> you don't have a .install?
Aug 27 20:57:15 <roope> ?
Aug 27 20:58:49 <lle2> haha, I managed to file the skype bug using a .nokia.com webform
Aug 27 20:59:09 <pupnik> synergy?
Aug 27 20:59:10 <_Monkey> synergy is mouse and keyboard sharing between computer and tablet:  https://garage.maemo.org/projects/synergy2/   https://garage.maemo.org/projects/unique311/   and for 770  http://pupnik.de/synergy-maemo_1.3.1-1_armel.deb
Aug 27 20:59:13 <lle2> took a while since I ended a few times in a loop of repeating webpages
Aug 27 20:59:18 <timelyx> lle2: leave a url w/ _Monkey
Aug 27 20:59:19 <erstazi> lle2: http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=95261
Aug 27 20:59:20 * sp3000 imagines a fax machine mounted on a trashcan for some reason
Aug 27 20:59:41 <tko> there's a nokia.com bug reporting page?
Aug 27 20:59:53 <timelyx> sp3000: =)
Aug 27 21:00:28 <erstazi> pupnik: so synergy is for when you are VNC'ing?
Aug 27 21:00:29 <pupnik> timelyx: will make .installs when i move finished packages to maemo.org
Aug 27 21:00:41 <lle2> timelyx: lost it already :(
Aug 27 21:00:59 <pupnik> erstazi: no, synergy lets you use the desktop mouse and keyboard on the tablet
Aug 27 21:01:03 <erstazi> ah
Aug 27 21:01:15 <erstazi> pupnik: obviously through USB, heh
Aug 27 21:01:19 <erstazi> or bluetooth
Aug 27 21:01:19 <_Monkey> bluetooth is the wrong way to do things like this
Aug 27 21:01:23 <pupnik> no wlan/bluetooth
Aug 27 21:01:28 <erstazi> ah
Aug 27 21:01:31 <lle2> tko: not really a bug reporting page, it seemed more like an address harvester for marketing department
Aug 27 21:01:40 <tko> :)
Aug 27 21:01:48 <erstazi> lle2: did you see the forum link I pasted?
Aug 27 21:01:55 <lle2> erstazi: sure
Aug 27 21:02:10 <erstazi> lle2: it might be FUD, but some useful information there (:
Aug 27 21:02:23 <lle2> erstazi: I bet they are quite disappointed with what they collect from the /etc/passwd of all the n800s
Aug 27 21:02:32 <erstazi> lle2: heh
Aug 27 21:02:43 <timelyx> lle2: do they ask for it?
Aug 27 21:02:43 <erstazi> lle2: but another mode of communication would be their forums
Aug 27 21:02:53 <timelyx> or is that the skype conspiracy stuff?
Aug 27 21:03:03 <erstazi> timelyx: the latter haha
Aug 27 21:03:05 <erstazi> I was just messing
Aug 27 21:03:36 <erstazi> but my point to lle2 was that he could post something on the skype forums about his problem since its a linux distro
Aug 27 21:03:55 <lle2> tko: funny that the page didn't promise to get back on the problem, only that they would spam you with ads if you ticked any of the boxes
Aug 27 21:04:24 <erstazi> lle2: Skype on Devices (Like N800): http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showforum=127
Aug 27 21:04:27 <erstazi> there ya go
Aug 27 21:04:36 <tko> lle2: at least they're honest?
Aug 27 21:05:48 <lle2> erstazi: I'll wait how the official nokia support channel works first :)
Aug 27 21:06:05 <erstazi> lle2: heh, watch, you get the same response as you did here haha
Aug 27 21:06:14 <lle2> probably even less
Aug 27 21:06:24 <timelyx> erstazi: it's not really qgil's fault
Aug 27 21:06:37 <timelyx> he has a fledgling bugzilla he's trying to grow
Aug 27 21:06:52 <erstazi> timelyx: I know, I am *not* downing qgil, I have the most respect for him
Aug 27 21:06:54 <timelyx> anyone here understand how internet radio works?
Aug 27 21:07:07 <timelyx> is showcast handled by the framework?
Aug 27 21:07:13 <timelyx> s/w/ut/
Aug 27 21:07:14 <infobot> timelyx meant: is shoutcast handled by the framework?
Aug 27 21:07:15 <erstazi> timelyx: I know where the xml file is that loads the favourites
Aug 27 21:08:18 <erstazi> lle2: have you tried this? http://support.skype.com/?_a=troubleshooter
Aug 27 21:08:21 <lle2> I guess tending bugzilla is a bit like growing them funny tiny trees
Aug 27 21:08:34 <timelyx> lle2: speaking as someone working on bonsai
Aug 27 21:08:34 <timelyx> yes
Aug 27 21:09:01 <sp3000> timelyx: what all do you want for 394
Aug 27 21:09:25 <sp3000> microb complains, opera launches mediaplayer which complains
Aug 27 21:09:31 <timelyx> heh
Aug 27 21:09:34 <sp3000> unsupported format in  both cases
Aug 27 21:09:55 <lle2> erstazi: no, let's see how far I can go with that support tool :)
Aug 27 21:09:57 <sp3000> I'll comment for a bit more str
Aug 27 21:10:02 <timelyx> thanks
Aug 27 21:10:07 <erstazi> lle2: tell me the outcome
Aug 27 21:10:11 <erstazi> lle2: I am interested
Aug 27 21:10:57 <lle2> erstazi: just forwarded me to the standard skype ticket submission page, how lame
Aug 27 21:11:54 <lle2> got to click "no" on about five irrelevant suggestions
Aug 27 21:13:47 <sp3000> lle2: this one issue reported on N800 at https://developer.skype.com/jira/browse/SOD got some sort of response
Aug 27 21:14:04 <timelyx> ooh, there's a second spammer
Aug 27 21:14:07 * sp3000 wonders what they mean by "developer" there ;)
Aug 27 21:17:38 <Jaffa> timelyx: hmm, with my new perms I can't vote on #1210
Aug 27 21:18:03 <kikka_> gn8
Aug 27 21:18:14 <timelyx> Jaffa: votes and perms don't relate
Aug 27 21:18:34 <Jaffa> timelyx: ok, cool. Ah, voting's per-product IIRC, isn't it?
Aug 27 21:18:37 <timelyx> votes are per product and generally relate to the person (me) failing to set them up as people expect
Aug 27 21:20:09 <timelyx> ok, i've fixed voting, mostly
Aug 27 21:20:24 <timelyx> it's set generally for 1 vote to confirm, 20 votes per product, 1 vote per bug
Aug 27 21:20:49 <lle2> sp3000: skype's webform was really cool, much better than nokia's harvester
Aug 27 21:20:52 <timelyx> browser requires 3 votes to confir, and misdirected requires 20 to confirm
Aug 27 21:21:34 <timelyx> i'll probably bump the others to 3 votes when people realize they can confirm their own bugs
Aug 27 21:21:56 <timelyx> (which will of course happen after people start not being able to file bugs as new)
Aug 27 21:22:11 <amr> anyone here ever used theme maker?
Aug 27 21:22:19 <timelyx> lle2 / sp3000: ideas on 1650 ?
Aug 27 21:22:41 <timelyx> amr: it's ~half past midnight
Aug 27 21:22:52 <timelyx> tigert probably has, and he might be around in say 10hrs
Aug 27 21:23:25 <amr> cool
Aug 27 21:23:29 <amr> its 20 past 10 here
Aug 27 21:25:46 <lle2> timelyx: that's a hardware problem, probably
Aug 27 21:25:56 <lle2> timelyx: really cool effect though
Aug 27 21:27:03 <lle2> ooh, skype's system sent me a confirmation that they've actually received the bug report
Aug 27 21:34:40 <disq> <- back in town
Aug 27 21:35:17 <disq> timelE61: i see you've moved some of my voted bugs to other categories where my votes were removed. i just re-voted for about 15 bugs :P
Aug 27 21:35:27 <timelyx> disq: sorry
Aug 27 21:35:34 <disq> good job on the organizing though :)
Aug 27 21:35:40 <timelyx> i usually don't pay any attn to votes
Aug 27 21:35:59 <timelyx> i'm down to about 4 bugs in media
Aug 27 21:36:02 <disq> i don't care as long as there are notifications
Aug 27 21:36:03 <lle2> timelyx: hmm, does that make you a republican then?
Aug 27 21:36:47 <timelyx> lle2: no, i'm an apathetic american ex-patriot
Aug 27 21:37:01 <lle2> heh
Aug 27 21:37:12 <timelyx> which reminds me, i need to fill out my absentee thing
Aug 27 21:37:26 <pupnik> "They call em fingers, but I never seen 'em fing.  Oh.  There they go..."
Aug 27 21:37:46 <timelyx> anyway, help :)
Aug 27 21:39:50 <timelyx> ok, i'm down to 6 bugs in nokia 770
Aug 27 21:39:52 <timelyx> then it bites the dust
Aug 27 21:40:43 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody point me to a tutorial for creating application launchers (the kind that you open in the system menu)?
Aug 27 21:41:01 <GeneralAntilles> I want to create a new wrapper for FBReader that executes a couple shell commands before it launches the app.
Aug 27 21:41:34 <pupnik> the general 'porting to maemo' howtos should suffice GeneralAntilles
Aug 27 21:42:06 <GeneralAntilles> I want to sync the "state" prefs for FBReader over multiple devices.
Aug 27 21:42:12 <GeneralAntilles> (two 770s and an N800)
Aug 27 21:43:13 <timelyx> could someone please do me a favor?
Aug 27 21:43:19 <sp3000> GeneralAntilles: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial_bora#integration
Aug 27 21:43:19 <timelyx> there are only 4 bugs left in nokia 770
Aug 27 21:43:24 <timelyx> and i can't figure out where to put them
Aug 27 21:43:35 <c0ffee> which ones?
Aug 27 21:44:17 <sp3000> https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?product=Nokia+770
Aug 27 21:46:04 <sp3000> I suppose 460 is system general
Aug 27 21:46:39 <sp3000> or system watchdog
Aug 27 21:46:56 <lle2> 100 is just funny
Aug 27 21:47:32 <timeless> i keep considering commenting
Aug 27 21:47:37 <timeless> i'm left handed
Aug 27 21:47:53 <timeless> i think it's better suited for left handed people than right handed
Aug 27 21:48:17 <pupnik> you use the stylus in right hand?
Aug 27 21:48:33 <lle2> might be, I kinda would vote for removing all buttons to make it equally miserable for all
Aug 27 21:48:48 <timeless> our device isn't an iphone
Aug 27 21:48:57 <lle2> damn
Aug 27 21:48:59 <timeless> we need to get some zoom features first
Aug 27 21:49:09 <sp3000> better submenu visibility :)
Aug 27 21:49:20 <c0ffee> i want cows
Aug 27 21:49:29 <timeless> i want fewer modal dialogs
Aug 27 21:49:33 <timeless> heck, fewer dialogs
Aug 27 21:49:35 <sp3000> I'll have a pony
Aug 27 21:49:49 <c0ffee> i'll have a nap
Aug 27 21:49:52 <c0ffee> laters &
Aug 27 21:50:28 <lle2> I guess 100 has to be misdirected
Aug 27 21:50:28 <pupnik> i can't help in filing those timeless
Aug 27 21:51:00 <timeless> should we move 100 to xserver?\
Aug 27 21:51:17 <lle2> no :)
Aug 27 21:51:20 <timeless> since the root thing is that we can't do rotate
Aug 27 21:51:34 <timeless> i know it'd get me one very unhappy  dev :)
Aug 27 21:51:37 <sp3000> system & desktop / this and that ;)
Aug 27 21:52:07 <lle2> since that bugzilla is not about products, it shouldn't have any product wishlist items in it
Aug 27 21:52:24 * timeless nods
Aug 27 21:52:28 <sp3000> well ok not so much desktop for 180
Aug 27 21:52:47 <timeless> misdirected:nokia?
Aug 27 21:53:12 <timeless> anyway
Aug 27 21:53:15 <lle2> filing a new bug about enabling randr might be valid
Aug 27 21:53:35 <lle2> misdirected:nokia yes
Aug 27 21:54:29 <sp3000> 598 sounds like a system general
Aug 27 21:55:34 <timeless> anyway, please move things when you find places
Aug 27 21:55:35 <sp3000> 717 dunno, it's this product rfe
Aug 27 21:55:40 <timeless> don't wait for me
Aug 27 21:58:09 <sp3000> just a grace period for seconds / objections :)
Aug 27 22:00:18 <sp3000> hmph
Aug 27 22:00:42 <sp3000> I'm supposed to use eassign to default am I not
Aug 27 22:01:25 <sp3000> presuming the qa at maemo assign/qac settings are not precious
Aug 27 22:03:42 <sp3000> rusty triage instincts
Aug 27 22:06:28 <pupnik> i think *name omitted* at nokia is pushing for randr over xsp for coming tablet versions
Aug 27 22:07:43 <lle2> I'm highly supportive of that
Aug 27 22:07:54 <pupnik> main benefit would be for portrait mode users, but the left handed thing would be trivial with randr
Aug 27 22:08:39 <lle2> although randr forces shadow buffers for everything, consuming more memory
Aug 27 22:08:57 <lle2> and more copying
Aug 27 22:09:14 <pupnik> interesting, i didn't know that
Aug 27 22:09:34 <lle2> at least that's how it was when I last looked at it
Aug 27 22:10:23 <lle2> that's why it was originally not used
Aug 27 22:10:39 <pupnik> what do you work on lle2?
Aug 27 22:10:58 <lle2> the core sw for the tablets
Aug 27 22:12:25 <dick-richardson> timelyx: when a new phone is supported, do we have to wait for the next release or is there an update we can run?
Aug 27 22:12:49 <pupnik> do you think there will be a developer program for the next tablet?
Aug 27 22:13:19 <lle2> if randr integrates well with the compositing stuff, then it's a clearly a go
Aug 27 22:13:22 <pupnik> I'd like to get started early.
Aug 27 22:13:31 <lle2> :)
Aug 27 22:13:43 <pupnik> sorry, i won't ask nda type questions
Aug 27 22:15:05 <pupnik> i think ITOS is great and don't empathise with much of the criticism, which is usually very uninformed
Aug 27 22:15:50 * pupnik gets back to work
Aug 27 22:16:34 <erstazi> heh
Aug 27 22:19:44 <lle2> if something is not right, it's always useful to point it out. other's can then judge for themselves if it's valid or not. personally I care about the number of sold devices and the ability to get our code merged to upstream, everything else is pretty irrelevant.
Aug 27 22:21:22 * sp3000 throws a bucket of rabid kittens at the recent nokia site reorg that deleted human readable links to products
Aug 27 22:21:33 <sp3000> s/links/urls/
Aug 27 22:21:38 <sp3000> s/deleted/moved/
Aug 27 22:21:55 <sp3000> *cough* it's the nokia 404!
Aug 27 22:21:57 <erstazi> sp3000: you mean without spaces?
Aug 27 22:21:58 * sp3000 sighs
Aug 27 22:22:06 <erstazi> sp3000: I can change that real quick
Aug 27 22:22:19 <sp3000> wha?
Aug 27 22:22:32 <sp3000> I'm completely offtopically taking about www.nokia.fi
Aug 27 22:22:38 <erstazi> ah
Aug 27 22:22:43 <erstazi> soryr
Aug 27 22:22:47 <sp3000> :)
Aug 27 22:22:47 <erstazi> s/soryr/sorry/
Aug 27 22:22:48 <infobot> erstazi meant: sorry
Aug 27 22:25:15 <sully> New Nokia Bluetooth accessories: http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/08/27/gps-music-power-nokia-busts-out-slew-of-accessories/
Aug 27 22:51:57 <pupnik> Kupo!
Aug 27 23:06:23 <DaniloCesar> Toni, Tony Maro?
Aug 27 23:15:18 <sp3000> SUDO PWEROFF
Aug 27 23:15:31 <sp3000> whoa
Aug 27 23:15:34 * pupnik hands sp3000 a nut
Aug 27 23:15:34 * sp3000 giggles
Aug 27 23:15:49 <sp3000> both caps /and/ wrong terminal /and/ typoed
Aug 27 23:16:10 * sp3000 wins, not sure what
Aug 27 23:16:58 * sp3000 wonders how he managed to get screen to look like it switched windows but not actually switch windows
Aug 27 23:17:02 * sp3000 shrugs
Aug 27 23:17:26 <sp3000> let's try this again
Aug 27 23:22:00 <soolek> 11111111111111111111112
Aug 27 23:31:18 <kupesoft> So when
Aug 27 23:31:27 <kupesoft> So when's USB host mode coming anyway!
Aug 27 23:31:42 <kupesoft> (On the n800 at least)
Aug 27 23:45:55 <pupnik> yaay flex!
Aug 27 23:49:52 <erstazi> how did I miss that netsplit
Aug 27 23:49:57 <erstazi> its coming for me!
Aug 27 23:50:32 <Blacksitox> netsplit yeah!
Aug 28 00:07:51 <pupnik> wootness - menu bug in freesci fixed
Aug 28 00:10:03 <pupnik> if anyone wants faster games porting i would take a gp2x on loan
Aug 28 00:11:08 <Sulis> haha, i've got a gp2x which currently has no firmware...
Aug 28 00:11:53 <pupnik> can it be flashed?
Aug 28 00:12:44 <Sulis> well last time i tried it started the flashing process, but never finished it
Aug 28 00:12:56 <Sulis> i left it on for *hours*
Aug 28 00:13:58 <pupnik> hi NeoStrider
Aug 28 00:14:13 <NeoStrider> hi pupnik
Aug 28 00:14:16 <NeoStrider> whats up?
Aug 28 00:14:33 <pupnik> working on freesci
Aug 28 00:17:49 <NeoStrider> freesci?
Aug 28 00:17:50 <_Monkey> somebody said freesci was the Interpreter/Emulator for Sierra On-Line adventure games.  Test and comment! 770/N800 compatible testing version here http://pupnik.de/freesci.html
Aug 28 00:17:58 <NeoStrider> hahahaha
Aug 28 00:18:18 <NeoStrider> why  I still get surprised!?
Aug 28 00:18:54 <NeoStrider> há! cool vbkd support!
Aug 28 00:19:12 <NeoStrider> but...how?!
Aug 28 00:19:51 <grosa> does anyone have a mirrored copy of http://www.arava.co.il/matan/770/dbus-s ?
Aug 28 00:20:19 <grosa> i'm trying to integrate my bt-pan scripts with the connection manager.
Aug 28 00:20:35 <NeoStrider> this xkbd thing rocks!!!
Aug 28 00:20:35 <grosa> as per instructions on http://maemo.org/community/wiki/bluetoothnetworkingandconnectionmanager/
Aug 28 00:23:01 <pupnik> :)
Aug 28 00:23:26 <pupnik> i don't know grosa
Aug 28 00:23:33 <pupnik> yeah NeoStrider - you see the screenshot?
Aug 28 00:23:46 <NeoStrider> sure!!!!
Aug 28 00:23:49 <NeoStrider> I wanna use it!!!
Aug 28 00:24:52 <grosa> heh, so all you need now is two tablets. one to use as a keyb for the other.
Aug 28 00:25:03 <grosa> (actually, that seems kinda cool)
Aug 28 00:26:54 <NeoStrider> grosa, whats your point?
Aug 28 00:27:18 <grosa> NeoStrider: that it would be awesomely geeky.
Aug 28 00:27:44 <NeoStrider> pupnik: incompatible package version!
Aug 28 00:27:52 <NeoStrider> grosa: why two tablets?
Aug 28 00:27:57 <grosa> hrm, so if i can't get the connection manager stuff to work... plan b: how do i add/change dock menu items?
Aug 28 00:28:06 <grosa> NeoStrider: so you can use one as a bt-keyboard for the other.
Aug 28 00:28:22 <grosa> NeoStrider: and not take up screenspace on 1 with a virtual keyb.
Aug 28 00:28:29 <NeoStrider> why is xkbd gives a kbd for non-hildon stuff
Aug 28 00:28:50 <NeoStrider> the xkbd is good enough
Aug 28 00:29:21 <pupnik> sorry NeoStrider not my package - use dpkg -i
Aug 28 00:29:49 <NeoStrider> root?
Aug 28 00:29:50 <_Monkey> somebody said root was not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
Aug 28 00:32:10 <NeoStrider> requires root =-/
Aug 28 00:32:14 <NeoStrider> I will build it myself later
Aug 28 00:32:40 <DaniloCesar> Someone knows why pygame window is not showed in the windows list when I call "pygame.display.set_mode([xxx,xxx])" (pymaemo)
Aug 28 00:32:56 <Sulis> NeoStrider: why not just ssh to root?
Aug 28 00:33:19 <NeoStrider> ssh requires internet connectivity, right?
Aug 28 00:33:38 <NeoStrider> or at least usbnet
Aug 28 00:33:46 <NeoStrider> neither I have now
Aug 28 00:34:30 <Sulis> ssh...from the tablet...
Aug 28 00:35:49 <Sulis> if you do: ssh root@127.1
Aug 28 00:35:57 <NeoStrider> ssh from the tablet to the tablet...genious!!!!
Aug 28 00:36:52 <Sulis> not genious, just practical
Aug 28 00:37:42 <NeoStrider> genius is the man who sees the simple things that were right on our faces...
Aug 28 00:40:05 <pupnik> hehe
Aug 28 00:40:17 <NeoStrider> back to zero...there are only .install ssh's
Aug 28 00:40:24 <dick-richardson> timelyx: when a new phone is supported, do we have to wait for the next release or is there an update we can run?
Aug 28 00:54:37 <NeoStrider> why seems that my sbox doesnt have internet acess?
Aug 28 00:55:30 <NeoStrider> actually it has
Aug 28 00:55:32 <NeoStrider> apt hasnt
Aug 28 01:00:31 <NeoStrider> fixed!
Aug 28 01:08:01 <NeoStrider> how to download microb-browser .deb?
Aug 28 01:09:04 <pupnik> microb?
Aug 28 01:09:04 <_Monkey> microb is, like, the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)
Aug 28 01:09:12 <pupnik> hmm bad _Monkey
Aug 28 01:09:20 <pupnik> see maemo.org browser
Aug 28 01:11:00 <NeoStrider> as usual, only .installs
Aug 28 01:16:02 <pupnik> this is bad?
Aug 28 01:16:16 <pupnik> you can look at install and get the deb with apt
Aug 28 01:16:36 <NeoStrider> yeah...but its not working
Aug 28 01:16:41 <NeoStrider> bad dependencies...
Aug 28 01:16:47 <NeoStrider> can you download it for me?
Aug 28 01:20:54 <pupnik> hmm i look
Aug 28 01:22:11 <pupnik> check ITT forums for problem description NeoStrider
Aug 28 01:22:22 <NeoStrider> ok
Aug 28 01:29:16 <pupnik> the .install worked for me on it2006 :|
Aug 28 01:30:15 <NeoStrider> you have wifi
Aug 28 01:30:19 <NeoStrider> I dont
Aug 28 01:30:25 <NeoStrider> but nevermind
Aug 28 01:30:34 <NeoStrider> got a web acess on the repo
Aug 28 01:43:29 <Andy80> hi
Aug 28 01:43:52 <Andy80> I've just discovered MicroB for N770...
Aug 28 01:44:24 <Andy80> I've read about flash9 license problem.. ok... but... is it possible to have the flash9 plugin?
Aug 28 01:55:39 * NeoStrider is now serving fresh angstron on MOSH
Aug 28 01:59:10 <pupnik> Andy80: don't know - lettuce know how it works for you
Aug 28 02:00:35 <Andy80> ok, thanks :) I'll give a look tomorrow!
Aug 28 02:12:49 <kupesoft> Arg, setting up maemo is a nightmare!
Aug 28 02:13:48 <NeoStrider> kupesoft: whats the matter?
Aug 28 02:14:06 <kupesoft> NeoStrider: I've already given up (;
Aug 28 02:14:13 <NeoStrider> why?
Aug 28 02:14:16 <kupesoft> Will you be around tomorrow to help out?
Aug 28 02:14:25 <NeoStrider> sure
Aug 28 02:14:28 <NeoStrider> but whats the matter?
Aug 28 02:14:28 <kupesoft> (;
Aug 28 02:14:47 <kupesoft> I'm finding the documentation too inaccessible
Aug 28 02:14:54 <kupesoft> i. e. no simple guide,
Aug 28 02:15:10 <NeoStrider> there are some simple guides around the web
Aug 28 02:15:14 <NeoStrider> let me get you some
Aug 28 02:15:41 <kupesoft> I don't know which scratchbox packages to downloda specificly
Aug 28 02:15:53 <NeoStrider> what version you want to develop for?
Aug 28 02:16:03 <kupesoft> I just want to tinker and compile some stuff
Aug 28 02:16:04 <kupesoft> really
Aug 28 02:16:13 <kupesoft> n800, updated to the newest firmware
Aug 28 02:16:18 <NeoStrider> hummm
Aug 28 02:16:32 <NeoStrider> so you're using maemo 3 (3.1? im not sure)
Aug 28 02:16:54 <NeoStrider> Download Scratchbox 1.0.7 and cs2005q3.2-glibc toolchains
Aug 28 02:16:58 <kupesoft> I'm not using maemo anything, I haven't installed it on my laptop
Aug 28 02:17:06 <NeoStrider> Download SDK rootstrap, too
Aug 28 02:17:15 <NeoStrider> i mean on device
Aug 28 02:17:20 <NeoStrider> your device runs maemo 3.x
Aug 28 02:17:23 <NeoStrider> n800
Aug 28 02:18:00 <NeoStrider> so you must get sbox 1.0.7 and the cs2005q3.2-glibc toolchains
Aug 28 02:18:07 <NeoStrider> then the rootstraps
Aug 28 02:18:21 <kupesoft> Which packages exactly on an x86 debian variant (guess which one ;( )
Aug 28 02:18:26 <NeoStrider> follow this: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial_bora.html
Aug 28 02:18:32 <kupesoft> http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/deb/
Aug 28 02:18:46 <NeoStrider> let me suggest you something? go with .tgz
Aug 28 02:19:02 <NeoStrider> I use ubuntu 7.04 and found it easier to use .tgz
Aug 28 02:19:17 <NeoStrider> (I've been playing around maemo since 1.0)
Aug 28 02:19:23 <kupesoft> Alright,
Aug 28 02:19:27 <kupesoft> so which exactly @ http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/tarball/ ?
Aug 28 02:19:45 <pupnik> took me a few days kupesoft, don't worry
Aug 28 02:19:57 <NeoStrider> it took me some weeks =-)
Aug 28 02:20:08 <kupesoft> (;
Aug 28 02:20:37 <kupesoft> I just want to compile a kernel module and some command line tools,
Aug 28 02:20:41 <pupnik> until i understood enough to really do things it took me weeks also
Aug 28 02:20:52 <NeoStrider> kupesoft: pick anything 1.0.7
Aug 28 02:20:55 <kupesoft> How difficult is this going to be?
Aug 28 02:21:11 <NeoStrider> kupesoft: modules? quite hard, I guess
Aug 28 02:21:13 <pupnik> command line tools can take < 2 minutes to compile
Aug 28 02:21:17 <pupnik> kernel modules dunno
Aug 28 02:21:19 <NeoStrider> command line tools: straightforward
Aug 28 02:21:24 <kupesoft> kernel modules: ???
Aug 28 02:21:30 <NeoStrider> yeah
Aug 28 02:21:51 <NeoStrider> Im just a game developer...never messed with anything like that
Aug 28 02:21:58 <kupesoft> My main goal is  to update the wireless driver and get the experimental USB host mode patches working
Aug 28 02:22:06 <NeoStrider> I shouldnt , indeed. I must simulate the user's machine on my machine
Aug 28 02:22:28 <kupesoft> I'm comfortable with compiling a kernel for the sucker, I just want to get Maemo set up (;
Aug 28 02:23:04 <NeoStrider> ok
Aug 28 02:23:08 <NeoStrider> so just follow the tutorial
Aug 28 02:23:33 <NeoStrider> on that url you pasted, just download everything 1.0.7 (never played with maemo 3.x - only maemo 2.x)
Aug 28 02:23:41 <kupesoft> Which scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2 do I want?
Aug 28 02:23:55 <kupesoft> glibc glibc2.5 ?
Aug 28 02:24:46 <NeoStrider> yeah...looks like it
Aug 28 02:25:15 <kupesoft> bleh,
Aug 28 02:25:31 <kupesoft> This is why I'm frustrated. );
Aug 28 02:26:13 <NeoStrider> oh man...just try it!
Aug 28 02:26:45 <kupesoft> Alright,
Aug 28 02:26:47 <kupesoft> (;
Aug 28 02:27:00 <kupesoft> What game are you working on?
Aug 28 02:27:05 <kupesoft> (or sorts of games?)
Aug 28 02:28:02 <NeoStrider> angstron?
Aug 28 02:28:03 <_Monkey> i heard angstron was http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 28 02:28:08 <NeoStrider> ;-)
Aug 28 02:28:30 <kupesoft> Do I need the scratchbox-libs package?
Aug 28 02:28:33 <NeoStrider> http://mosh.nokia.com/content/389CBFFD11296914E040050AEE044171
Aug 28 02:28:42 <NeoStrider> yeah
Aug 28 02:28:45 <NeoStrider> everything =-)
Aug 28 02:28:52 <NeoStrider> sbox is somewhat big
Aug 28 02:28:59 <pupnik> how about not drawing the floor NeoStrider?  just walls, lines and racers?
Aug 28 02:29:15 <NeoStrider> hum...maybe...
Aug 28 02:29:19 <kupesoft> And which devkit should I pick?
Aug 28 02:29:34 <NeoStrider> but then I loose lots of ambient details (i guess)
Aug 28 02:29:42 <NeoStrider> but I will try it
Aug 28 02:29:46 <NeoStrider> thanks for the idea
Aug 28 02:30:44 <NeoStrider> anyway, maybe the performance doesnt worth loosing the details
Aug 28 02:33:34 <kupesoft> Yeah, this is way to complicated.
Aug 28 02:33:34 <NeoStrider> kupesoft: whats the options?
Aug 28 02:34:06 <kupesoft> There's 6 scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc* packages,
Aug 28 02:34:59 <NeoStrider> pick the 1.0.7
Aug 28 02:34:59 * kupesoft gives up as per before,
Aug 28 02:35:20 <kupesoft> the arm - i386 one?
Aug 28 02:35:24 <NeoStrider> both
Aug 28 02:35:45 <kupesoft> alright
Aug 28 02:35:46 * kupesoft resumes
Aug 28 02:35:51 <NeoStrider> the i386 for "emulation" , the arm for device
Aug 28 02:37:26 <kupesoft> okay, I've got libs core and the two toolchains
Aug 28 02:38:19 <kupesoft> Following the instructions on scratchbox.org,
Aug 28 02:38:36 <NeoStrider> good
Aug 28 02:44:59 <kupesoft> brb
Aug 28 02:46:32 <kupesoft> Which rootstrap do I want?
Aug 28 02:47:16 <kupesoft> NeoStrider: ?
Aug 28 02:47:29 <NeoStrider> show me the options
Aug 28 02:47:38 <kupesoft> http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-3-x--bora-.html
Aug 28 02:47:54 <kupesoft> i386 or armel
Aug 28 02:48:12 <NeoStrider> both
Aug 28 02:48:12 <kupesoft> And there's no 3.2, just a 3.1 (I gather I can apt-get dist-upgrade?)
Aug 28 02:48:26 <NeoStrider> yeah
Aug 28 02:48:30 <NeoStrider> theres no 3.2 yet
Aug 28 02:48:42 <NeoStrider> I guess there will not be a 3.2
Aug 28 02:55:57 <kupesoft> NeoStrider: I found *good* docs @ http://repository.maemo.org/stable/
Aug 28 02:56:23 <NeoStrider> where?
Aug 28 02:56:35 <kupesoft> in 3.1
Aug 28 02:56:43 <kupesoft> install.txt
Aug 28 02:57:21 <NeoStrider> good!
Aug 28 02:57:25 <NeoStrider> I got to go anyway!
Aug 28 02:59:44 <NeoStrider> cya
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Aug 28 02:59:56 2007