**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Aug 30 02:59:57 2007
Aug 30 03:00:29 <ysss> lol
Aug 30 03:00:32 <pupnik> ysss: are you interested in emulation and have some coding experience?
Aug 30 03:00:38 <ysss> 15fps should be ok
Aug 30 03:01:23 <ysss> I've unuseful coding experience, but have a heavy stock of emulation uhm assets..
Aug 30 03:01:56 <pupnik> ok, there are a lot of arm emulators from the gp2x scene that could work on the nokias
Aug 30 03:01:56 <[1]a-l-p-h-a> I made the mistake of connecting the mail program connect to gmail.  anyone know how to clear all emails easily
Aug 30 03:01:57 <[1]a-l-p-h-a> ?
Aug 30 03:02:03 <pupnik> nobody has managed to port one yet
Aug 30 03:02:24 <ysss> pupnik: have you tried booting n800 from SD? Is it true that it behaves badly w/ the AC adapter?
Aug 30 03:02:49 <pupnik> i only have 770 - and i boot from mmc and only have occasional strangeness
Aug 30 03:03:14 <ysss> pupnik: yes, I have a gp2x so I never looked for emulation on other platform since the gp2x does it so nicely. ScummVM on n800 is quite awesome though.
Aug 30 03:03:39 <ysss> pupnik: what strangeness did you find and how often?
Aug 30 03:04:03 <pupnik> on...
Aug 30 03:04:19 <pupnik> very seldom -
Aug 30 03:04:34 <pupnik> ysss: we need those gp2x emus
Aug 30 03:04:51 <pupnik> ysss: is there a software emulator for gp2x?
Aug 30 03:05:38 <pupnik> i also have some unreleased ports if you want to help test
Aug 30 03:06:05 <ysss> pupnik: I didn't participate in gp2x developments, so I don't know.
Aug 30 03:06:35 <ysss> pupnik: sure I'll test as long as it has little risk on my n800, because i use it daily.
Aug 30 03:06:44 <pupnik> well those guys did great work
Aug 30 03:07:23 <pupnik> nobody on planet earth is working to port gp2x emus to nokia
Aug 30 03:07:39 <ysss> Yeah, it's the best portable emulation platform i've seen yet. i don't get why they didn't upgrade the CPU on their new machine though.
Aug 30 03:08:22 <pupnik> yeah, someone on the forums says there is a project to do a next-gen gp2x
Aug 30 03:10:54 <pupnik> ysss: this would be good: http://pupnik.de/Nokia970med4.png
Aug 30 03:11:29 <unique311> pupnik,
Aug 30 03:11:30 <_Monkey> pupnik, is there a nice tutorial for packaing for the N800
Aug 30 03:11:55 <unique311> I did tell you i got neopop to work fullscreen, but i couldn't get controls to work on it.
Aug 30 03:12:27 <pupnik> what for this neopop?
Aug 30 03:12:31 <unique311> not sure but i think it was the gp2x source i modified to get it to work on the N800
Aug 30 03:12:39 <unique311> its neogeo
Aug 30 03:12:43 <unique311> the handheld
Aug 30 03:12:51 <unique311> like a gameboy
Aug 30 03:12:52 <pupnik> nice
Aug 30 03:12:55 <erstazi> unique311: howdy, long time no see
Aug 30 03:13:12 <unique311> been working on shirt designs
Aug 30 03:13:13 <erstazi> _Monkey: forget pupnik,
Aug 30 03:13:14 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot pupnik,
Aug 30 03:13:17 <pupnik> you do so much stuff unique311 - why not get a cheap website?
Aug 30 03:13:20 <ysss> pupnik: nifty. I wish the IT gets a slide-out keyboard though. One w/ buldging keys like the Treo.
Aug 30 03:13:28 <unique311> and going thru the worst toothache ever right now.
Aug 30 03:13:41 <pupnik> sorry
Aug 30 03:13:42 <erstazi> unique311: put some jack daniels on it, it will take the pain away
Aug 30 03:13:52 <unique311> i was looking for some liquor..
Aug 30 03:13:53 <ysss> neogeo pocket
Aug 30 03:13:55 <pupnik> no dentist
Aug 30 03:13:56 <unique311> none in the house.
Aug 30 03:13:57 <erstazi> and I am not saying that because I am an alcoholic... I just know <EG>
Aug 30 03:14:01 <unique311> the pain is gone.
Aug 30 03:14:10 <unique311> its swollen.
Aug 30 03:14:19 <erstazi> unique311: what do you have? how much do you weight? niteqwik will work
Aug 30 03:14:26 <unique311> i had a freaking milkyway
Aug 30 03:14:35 <ysss> unique311: what do u do with the shirt designs?
Aug 30 03:15:15 <unique311> i have some descent designs.
Aug 30 03:15:37 <pupnik> ysss: http:/pupnik.de/aliens_nokia_onscreenbuttons.jpg
Aug 30 03:15:45 <pupnik> decent
Aug 30 03:16:20 <unique311> yeah
Aug 30 03:17:10 <unique311> pupnik if you want the source i modified for fullscreen, i can't up it for you..
Aug 30 03:17:14 <ysss> submit your less-than-decent ones to shirts.woot.com heh
Aug 30 03:17:22 <unique311> speed is really fast
Aug 30 03:17:26 <ysss> pupnik: nice
Aug 30 03:17:45 <pupnik> no more projects for me unique311
Aug 30 03:17:56 <pupnik> i have to finish stuff
Aug 30 03:18:08 <unique311> cool
Aug 30 03:18:33 <unique311> waiting on this guy to put out the faint release fullscreen.
Aug 30 03:18:48 <erstazi> I have too many projects myself
Aug 30 03:19:43 <pupnik> the thing that is burning a hole in my brain is the snes emu
Aug 30 03:19:59 <pupnik> that's doable
Aug 30 03:20:36 <pupnik> and those rpgs would be workable with the bad d-pad
Aug 30 03:20:56 <unique311> someone on ITT is trying to get picodrive going.
Aug 30 03:21:10 <unique311> isn't that ur project
Aug 30 03:21:12 <pupnik> cool i missed that - under gaming or development?
Aug 30 03:21:29 <pupnik> the only picodrive work i did was with you :)
Aug 30 03:22:23 <erstazi> how strange, the whole day, I haven't even touched my 770
Aug 30 03:22:26 <erstazi> thats a first
Aug 30 03:22:46 <pupnik> anyway picodrive will not be much good
Aug 30 03:22:58 <pupnik> the games all are twitchware - fast response games
Aug 30 03:23:13 <pupnik> except for a couple of rpgs (not very good)
Aug 30 03:24:43 <unique311> for gaming on the N800
Aug 30 03:25:00 <unique311> i think i'm addicted to solitaire
Aug 30 03:25:28 <ysss> I wish for a decent poker game for the IT
Aug 30 03:25:36 <unique311> gambler
Aug 30 03:25:46 <unique311> lots of flash games that provide that
Aug 30 03:25:50 <ysss> lol
Aug 30 03:26:06 <ysss> horrible adware last time i checked.
Aug 30 03:26:13 <unique311> i did a flash package
Aug 30 03:26:16 <ysss> then again, i've no idea how to effectively search for flash content.
Aug 30 03:26:17 <unique311> hold on
Aug 30 03:26:28 <ysss> brilliant
Aug 30 03:27:07 <unique311> http://www.divshare.com/download/1503325-ae5
Aug 30 03:27:20 <unique311> has some good vegas games..
Aug 30 03:27:29 <fer__> hi
Aug 30 03:27:30 <_Monkey> salut, fer__
Aug 30 03:27:48 <fer__> anyone knws if it's possible to use a bluetooth headset with a n800?
Aug 30 03:28:05 <ysss> THANK YOU :D   (the addict gambler in me just spoke)
Aug 30 03:28:16 <fer__> (I mean, to use voip/SIP/Skype)
Aug 30 03:28:21 <unique311> you can treak it up for your needs.
Aug 30 03:29:02 <erstazi> ysss: I like Texas Hold'em myself (:
Aug 30 03:29:17 <ysss> unique311: i've never used flash from disk\ram. Do you launch it from file manager or point the browser to it?
Aug 30 03:29:20 <erstazi> fer__: I have heard of people talking about it
Aug 30 03:29:33 <ysss> erstazi: yesssssss... me tooooooo
Aug 30 03:29:36 <unique311> place it in mmc
Aug 30 03:29:41 <unique311> and run the index.html
Aug 30 03:29:47 <unique311> bookmark it
Aug 30 03:30:13 <unique311> extract
Aug 30 03:30:25 <unique311> place Mflash folder in mmc1 or mmc2
Aug 30 03:30:27 <ysss> fer__: i've read that they can pair, but there's no bluetooth headset profile yet. It seems right now the answer is "not yet".
Aug 30 03:30:32 <unique311> run index.html
Aug 30 03:30:43 <ysss> unique311: nice
Aug 30 03:30:52 <unique311> and bookmark it
Aug 30 03:31:26 <unique311> i sucked at html.
Aug 30 03:31:52 <unique311> used dreamweaver, so it worked out ok i guess
Aug 30 03:32:47 <ysss> unique311: i was gonna say "Naw, it looks alright" or something like that, but my crappy connection is still not done downloading the thing :]
Aug 30 03:33:35 <unique311> ysss, 770 or 800?
Aug 30 03:34:31 <unique311> might not play well with the 770...pupnik's reviews wasn't that good.
Aug 30 03:36:53 <pupnik> i what huh
Aug 30 03:37:16 <unique311> remember the flash package i made
Aug 30 03:37:27 <pupnik> oh that was awesome
Aug 30 03:37:35 <unique311> you gave it a run, and it didn't play well with the 770
Aug 30 03:37:35 <pupnik> but a lot of them were too slow on the 770
Aug 30 03:37:40 <unique311> ok
Aug 30 03:37:57 <erstazi> ok,sleep time, everyone have a good night
Aug 30 03:38:02 <pupnik> cheera
Aug 30 03:38:10 <unique311> was warning ysss if he owns a 770
Aug 30 03:38:18 <unique311> later erstazi
Aug 30 03:38:34 <pupnik> unique311: that's going to be a huge gaming thing for the n800 and the next tablet
Aug 30 03:38:56 <ysss__> nite erstazi
Aug 30 03:39:13 <ysss__> unique311: i got disconnected
Aug 30 03:39:35 <pupnik> unique311: are they open source?  can you distribute the package on a website?
Aug 30 03:39:43 <pupnik> divshare is not enough
Aug 30 03:39:46 <ysss__> the karma gods heard me bitch about my connection and instantly struck my dsl down.
Aug 30 03:40:35 <pupnik> unique311: i spend 99 cents a month for my site -- if you want it shouldn't be much more expensive
Aug 30 03:41:21 <unique311> i had webhosting.
Aug 30 03:41:39 <pupnik> i am not giving advice, but i think maybe some of the stuff you've done isn't getting enough attention
Aug 30 03:42:14 <ysss__> that's a good non-advice
Aug 30 03:42:14 <fer__> ysss__, thanks for the info.
Aug 30 03:42:26 <unique311> i planned on tweaking the flash package and then adding it to the garage if they would let me.
Aug 30 03:42:33 <unique311> but never got to it.
Aug 30 03:43:15 <Wiredless> anyone know what repositoru has the needed lids for UKMP?
Aug 30 03:49:56 <unique311> anyone using a wiimote with the device?
Aug 30 04:04:59 <ysss__> not me, i don't use my n800 for twitch gaming
Aug 30 04:10:08 <timelyx> dolske: um
Aug 30 04:10:57 <dolske> ?
Aug 30 04:12:52 <pupnik> nokia tablets can work for adventures, puzzles and rpgs
Aug 30 04:13:32 <timelyx> re packages
Aug 30 04:13:48 <timelyx> pupnik: rocket propelled grenades? :)
Aug 30 04:14:16 <dolske> touch screen... carefully.
Aug 30 04:14:48 <Shwiata> hello all
Aug 30 04:15:00 <dolske> timelyx: are you going to tell me that 0.0.8-4 is the 770 version?
Aug 30 04:15:52 <timelyx> maybe? :)
Aug 30 04:16:03 <Shwiata> search appears to be broken and I just had a quick question, are there ready made installs of the wpa_supplicant for the n800 on someone's hard drive by any chance?
Aug 30 04:16:19 <dolske> and that having the pre-bora repositories in the Application Manager is a bad idea?
Aug 30 04:17:12 <timelyx> https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mozilla/trunk/microb-browser/debian/changelog?root=browser&view=annotate
Aug 30 04:17:17 <timelyx> but garage doesn't know :)
Aug 30 04:17:36 <timelyx> dolske: you have gregale repositories in application manager?
Aug 30 04:17:47 <timelyx> dolske: there are stories about how to break a debian system
Aug 30 04:17:52 <timelyx> they go something like this:
Aug 30 04:17:54 <Wiredless> anyone know what is the newest hacker eddition 2007 for 770?
Aug 30 04:18:09 <timelyx> Wiredless: can't you figure that out by going to the project page?
Aug 30 04:18:22 <Wiredless> guess not
Aug 30 04:18:23 <timelyx> add repositories for older/newer versions and do apt-get update; apt-get install <anything interesting>
Aug 30 04:18:29 <Wiredless> i been looking around
Aug 30 04:18:34 <Wiredless> not much luck
Aug 30 04:18:55 <dolske> your 'um' implied I must some some something amazingly stupid such as to leave you speechless, so I checked and I still had a couple of the old repos enabled.
Aug 30 04:18:58 <dolske> :)
Aug 30 04:19:13 <timelyx> dolske: actually, that um was more like
Aug 30 04:19:25 <Wiredless> going through the nokia os download it says 2.2006.47-17
Aug 30 04:19:26 <timelyx> "um, [pregnant pause, hiding ignorance of package details]
Aug 30 04:19:39 <dolske> heh
Aug 30 04:19:47 <Wiredless> i have 2.200648-7 on there now
Aug 30 04:24:46 <pupnik> um is general shorthand for 'don't know that to say'
Aug 30 04:24:57 <pupnik> the cause of 'don't know what to say' can be varied
Aug 30 04:25:32 <pupnik> i don't know,  question is too confusing,  question is too stupid
Aug 30 04:25:34 <pupnik> for e.g.
Aug 30 04:25:38 <dolske> At least he didn't sigh. :-P
Aug 30 04:26:27 <bedboi> re
Aug 30 04:26:30 <pupnik> you're right though - usually it implies not understanding the question
Aug 30 04:26:33 <Wiredless> great to see helpfull people in the channel
Aug 30 04:26:52 <ysss__> "baby, i'm pregnant!"    "Um.."
Aug 30 04:27:34 <bedboi> any dbus expert out there?
Aug 30 04:28:23 <pupnik> ok Wiredless - why doesn't xkbd send keyboard events to a fullscreen sdl app, but it sends to a windowed sdl app?
Aug 30 04:28:28 <pupnik> tell me now!
Aug 30 04:29:16 <pupnik> YOU OWE ME AN ANSWER BY BEING PRESENT IN THIS CHANNEL!
Aug 30 04:29:29 <`0660> window manager handles the events with windowed apps?
Aug 30 04:30:00 <pupnik> `0660: something like that - i am missing background knowledge on X
Aug 30 04:31:25 <pupnik> in fact, by me being PRESENT IN THIS CHANNEL
Aug 30 04:31:30 <pupnik> and WANTING to get SOMETHING DONE
Aug 30 04:31:39 <pupnik> you ALL MUST WORK for me TO DO WHAT I WANT
Aug 30 04:31:44 <pupnik> and YOU MUST ALL DO IT RIGHT NOW
Aug 30 04:31:50 <pupnik> otherwise THIS CHANNEL SUCKS!
Aug 30 04:31:59 <`0660> :)
Aug 30 04:32:49 <pupnik> heh
Aug 30 04:33:05 <`0660> i could try to find you a tutorial on x event handling? :P
Aug 30 04:33:31 <pupnik> no no i need to learn a lot to figure that out
Aug 30 04:34:52 <pupnik> and the xkbd is a dirty hack anyway... it's difficult to know what to do about the situation of virtual keyboard and non-hildon apps
Aug 30 04:35:27 <timelyx> pupnik: do what i want, i give you a tshirt
Aug 30 04:35:28 <timelyx> it's that simple
Aug 30 04:35:34 <pupnik> hehe
Aug 30 04:35:34 <timelyx> :)
Aug 30 04:36:03 <pupnik> yeah maybe sometime
Aug 30 04:36:09 <kulve> lardman|gone: about the debugging. I use dbg(task, fmt, ...); function and those messages are seen in dmesg on ARM side (or in syslog)
Aug 30 04:36:31 <timelyx> _Monkey sysklogd
Aug 30 04:36:32 <_Monkey> timelyx: what?
Aug 30 04:36:39 <timelyx> _Monkey syslogd
Aug 30 04:36:39 <_Monkey> timelyx: i'm not following you...
Aug 30 04:36:43 <timelyx> useless bot
Aug 30 04:38:00 <`0660> :)
Aug 30 04:40:25 <pupnik> timelyx: i'm just not into the normal use-cases and i don't think i am very useful to your work
Aug 30 04:40:41 <timelyx> pupnik: we'll see
Aug 30 04:40:47 <timelyx> i'm fairly good at putting people to work
Aug 30 04:41:09 <pupnik> microb works fine here
Aug 30 04:54:24 <tompgl> i have lxdoom on a nokia 770 and i can't find the control to reduce the mouse sensitivity in options. anybody know how?
Aug 30 04:55:36 <timelyx> anyone here happen to have an n800 that doesn't have microb installed?
Aug 30 05:07:55 <ysss__> timelyx: yes
Aug 30 05:13:45 <timelyx> what does the toolbar look like?
Aug 30 05:13:55 <timelyx> what's the first thing you see in it (on the left)
Aug 30 05:22:46 <ysss__> toolbar? that's the bar on the bottom is it? the bookmark icon
Aug 30 05:23:05 <ysss__> actually, i have 2 n800.. one w/ microb and one without. i can do a direct comparison for you..
Aug 30 05:23:34 <ysss__> iirc, the only difference is the 'set engine' menu item
Aug 30 05:24:00 <timelyx> ok
Aug 30 05:24:12 <timelyx> can you load bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?product=Browser
Aug 30 05:24:20 <timelyx> in the changed in field enter '1d'
Aug 30 05:24:22 <timelyx> search
Aug 30 05:24:27 <timelyx> there should be a bug that asked for a globe in the toolbar
Aug 30 05:24:30 <timelyx> it should be resolved
Aug 30 05:24:48 <timelyx> select it and comment that it's actually fixed in <4.2007 or whatever non microb os you have>
Aug 30 05:25:05 <timelyx> feel free to note that you can get a 2007 he
Aug 30 05:36:12 <ysss__> ok, doing the search..
Aug 30 05:36:25 <ysss__> sorry, i'm doing a few things here
Aug 30 05:36:41 <timelyx> no problem
Aug 30 05:36:49 <timelyx> i'm explaining to someone how to analyze a bug and fix it
Aug 30 05:37:13 <timelyx> stupid question time
Aug 30 05:37:18 <timelyx> where does gtk live?
Aug 30 05:41:47 <ysss__> eh, finally found the bug. that guy isn't asking for bookmark icon. he's asking for the web icon that acts as a (multiple) web window selector, in place of a tab interface.
Aug 30 05:42:20 <timelyx> oh god
Aug 30 05:42:24 <ysss__> that's actually not a bad idea, seeing that there's space in the bottom toolbar to fit that in.
Aug 30 05:42:32 * timelyx sighs
Aug 30 05:42:37 <timelyx> can you please fix the summary
Aug 30 05:42:46 <timelyx> if you get a rejection, tell me your bugmail address and i'll upgrade you
Aug 30 05:42:56 <timelyx> heck, give me your bugmail address
Aug 30 05:43:00 <timelyx> i'll upgrade you and you can reopen
Aug 30 05:43:23 * timelyx looks for svn
Aug 30 05:44:55 <ysss__> i'm not familiar w/ bug reporting procedures. the 'summary' is just another comment in that thread to clarify?
Aug 30 05:45:06 <ysss__> lys@eml.cc
Aug 30 05:47:38 <jarno> Hello!
Aug 30 05:47:41 <timelyx> ok, reload the bug
Aug 30 05:47:42 <timelyx> hello
Aug 30 05:47:48 <timelyx> the summary is a field at the top
Aug 30 05:47:53 <timelyx> it's editable and fairly distinct from comments
Aug 30 05:47:57 <timelyx> basically:
Aug 30 05:48:01 <timelyx> 1. edit the summary field
Aug 30 05:48:24 <timelyx> 2. type a comment explaining how what the reporter wanted and what i interpreted where different
Aug 30 05:48:28 <timelyx> 3. select (*) reopen
Aug 30 05:48:34 <timelyx> 4. review.
Aug 30 05:48:37 <timelyx> 5. click commit
Aug 30 05:48:49 <timelyx> use a spell checker for 4, firefox has one
Aug 30 05:51:03 <latzko> hi
Aug 30 05:53:34 <latzko> In x86 target network and host resolving works from shell but it does not work in the window manager running on Xephyr. What am I missing? thanks
Aug 30 05:54:17 <latzko> should I install and start something?
Aug 30 05:54:29 <timelyx> svn sucks btw
Aug 30 05:55:11 <timelyx> latzko: normally nsswitch.conf and resolve.conf aren't properly configured
Aug 30 05:55:14 <timelyx> did you fix them?
Aug 30 05:55:48 * timelyx curses
Aug 30 05:55:55 <timelyx> sanjay is such a fragile box
Aug 30 05:57:27 <latzko> yes I found that in irc logs . I don't know what the fix really is. hosts: files dns networks: files is mine
Aug 30 06:01:19 * timelyx can't parse that
Aug 30 06:01:40 <latzko> timelyx, thans anyway, I look the settings on the tablet :)
Aug 30 06:01:56 <latzko> I mean thanks
Aug 30 06:05:12 <ysss__> timelyx: ok, done.
Aug 30 06:08:45 <latzko> well, nsswitch.conf and resolv.conf seems to be ok
Aug 30 06:09:15 <latzko> in the shell net works perfectly
Aug 30 06:09:18 <ysss__> timelyx: is there a way to open web links in new background window?
Aug 30 06:09:30 <timelyx> no
Aug 30 06:09:41 <timelyx> but if you remove 20 menuitems for me, we can see about it
Aug 30 06:09:47 <timelyx> browser has too many menu items
Aug 30 06:09:54 <timelyx> i'm not adding more until i kill at least half a dozen
Aug 30 06:10:00 <timelyx> preferably two dozen
Aug 30 06:10:17 <timelyx> ysss__: but simply put
Aug 30 06:10:29 <timelyx> the device you have doesn't have the resources to be used the way you want to use it
Aug 30 06:10:37 <timelyx> so i will *not* encourage people to break their devices
Aug 30 06:10:49 <timelyx> the browser can handle up to maybe 4 pages
Aug 30 06:10:50 <ysss__> remove or is regrouping acceptable, so they're conceptually easier to comprehend..?
Aug 30 06:10:53 <ysss__> ok.l
Aug 30 06:10:55 <roope> timelyx: start with the encoding command or whatsitcalled. :)
Aug 30 06:11:04 <timelyx> roope: we're trying to kill that
Aug 30 06:11:28 <timelyx> but i think there were some fun items in the frame context submenu
Aug 30 06:11:39 <timelyx> roope: it almost died for microb
Aug 30 06:11:50 <timelyx> roope: i think i gave you a bug this morning
Aug 30 06:12:03 <timelyx> if i didn't, i can impersonate you now and make a comment to be sure you get the bug :)
Aug 30 06:12:32 <timelyx> specifically, you should be watching applications:user interface
Aug 30 06:12:46 <timelyx> if you aren't, i can explain how to fix that :)
Aug 30 06:12:54 <timelyx> (i can but really shouldn't fix it myself)
Aug 30 06:13:43 <ysss__> timelyx: how about consolidating the content of 'close' into 'window'?
Aug 30 06:14:20 <timelyx> ysss__: i just moved that bug to roope's component
Aug 30 06:14:24 <timelyx> it's the bug i was talking about
Aug 30 06:14:25 <timelyx> :)
Aug 30 06:14:32 <ysss__> d'oh
Aug 30 06:14:40 <timelyx> very timely :)
Aug 30 06:15:08 <roope> sometimes i feel that my job is a scientific experiment on how many different topics one can multitask in.
Aug 30 06:15:21 <timelyx> roope: i think you're the low end
Aug 30 06:15:28 <roope> yeah, i thought that jenni set those bugs to come to me.
Aug 30 06:15:30 <timelyx> try me, i'm having a couple of conversations, making a patch/tutorial in C
Aug 30 06:15:46 <timelyx> roope: my reorg mostly clobbered that stuff
Aug 30 06:15:53 <timelyx> i fixed the big qa buckets
Aug 30 06:15:55 <timelyx> but not the little people
Aug 30 06:16:04 <timelyx> i can fix it for you if you like
Aug 30 06:16:08 <timelyx> but i'd rather walk you through it
Aug 30 06:16:20 <timelyx> other tasks i'm doing now: reviewing perl/html/js/css
Aug 30 06:16:31 <roope> well, perhaps the multitask field is a bit ... umm, broader is topic range.
Aug 30 06:16:34 <timelyx> trying to buy plane tickets to vienna ...
Aug 30 06:16:55 <roope> but i'll try to check the bugzilla. although i'm crrap at using it
Aug 30 06:17:53 <timelyx> load: https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email&tab=email
Aug 30 06:17:57 <timelyx> scroll to the bottom
Aug 30 06:18:04 <timelyx> look for:
Aug 30 06:18:05 <timelyx> Users to watch:
Aug 30 06:18:08 <timelyx> i have:
Aug 30 06:18:12 <timelyx> [microb-bugs@maemo.org,bookmarks-bugs@maemo.org,flash-bugs@maemo.org,opera-engine-bugs@maemo.org,browser-bugs@maemo.org,media-plugin-bugs@maemo.org]
Aug 30 06:18:24 <timelyx> in another window, load:
Aug 30 06:18:26 <timelyx> https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Applications
Aug 30 06:18:36 <timelyx> oh oops
Aug 30 06:18:42 <timelyx> hrm, i haven't broken you yet
Aug 30 06:18:50 <timelyx> well, maybe i should go ahead and break you now :)
Aug 30 06:18:58 <timelyx> silly me
Aug 30 06:19:20 <timelyx> anyway, that means you have seen the bug ysss__ asked about :)
Aug 30 06:19:33 <timelyx> eww
Aug 30 06:19:38 <timelyx> Applications:Core?
Aug 30 06:20:26 <roope> sounds like the guy is asking to copy the iphone browser.
Aug 30 06:20:44 <roope> icon that acts as a multiple window selector.
Aug 30 06:21:05 <timelyx> roope: which bug is this?
Aug 30 06:21:21 <roope> i was just backlog reading.
Aug 30 06:21:32 <latzko> hm. apt-get works but apps with gui and net does not. do you have any clue?
Aug 30 06:21:32 <roope> i'm not in the office yet, can't access bugzilla.
Aug 30 06:21:41 <timelyx> roope: eh?
Aug 30 06:21:48 <timelyx> bugs.maemo.org isn't behind any firewalls
Aug 30 06:21:50 <timelyx> it's public
Aug 30 06:21:55 <timelyx> my mac is at home, i'm on my mac
Aug 30 06:22:04 <roope> i'm on my e61
Aug 30 06:22:06 <timelyx> course, you might not know your password
Aug 30 06:22:10 <roope> it would be somewhat painful
Aug 30 06:22:25 <roope> and i don't know my password.
Aug 30 06:22:27 <timelyx> roope: i did a large part of the bugs.maemo.org reorg using my n800 w/ e61i offering the connectivity :)
Aug 30 06:22:42 <timelyx> yeah, that password part is a problem. for me i just log into gmail and get it
Aug 30 06:22:49 <roope> that's because the n800 was so good.
Aug 30 06:22:53 <roope> ;)
Aug 30 06:22:59 <timelyx> yeah, complete w/ microb :)
Aug 30 06:23:04 <timelyx> it actually worked quite well
Aug 30 06:23:34 <timelyx> i could have done it from my e61i, but i'd have used SSH to screen to lynx
Aug 30 06:23:41 <timelyx> no way i'd use the gui browser to do it
Aug 30 06:23:52 <timelyx> its window handling is awful
Aug 30 06:24:00 <timelyx> wait
Aug 30 06:24:06 <timelyx> this guy wants window switching?
Aug 30 06:24:08 <jarno> What kind process is convert python programs to different hardware?Like Linux 386 to Nokia tablets?
Aug 30 06:24:15 <timelyx> ysss__: what's wrong w/ the hardware home key?
Aug 30 06:24:17 <jarno> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72065#post72065
Aug 30 06:24:41 <timelyx> jarno: python w/ ui or python w/o?
Aug 30 06:24:58 <timelyx> w/o it might just plain work unless the programmer tried very hard to be annoying
Aug 30 06:25:50 <roope> we do have a couple of interesting concepts for window switching, but not like a button in the toolbar.
Aug 30 06:26:04 <timelyx> depending on how good you want the gui integration you'd have to port to pymaemo or something
Aug 30 06:26:16 <timelyx> roope: personally, i'd veto a button in the toolbar
Aug 30 06:26:18 <timelyx> i already have:
Aug 30 06:26:34 <timelyx> globe, rss, lock, tinyurlbar, go, back, forward, find
Aug 30 06:26:43 <timelyx> where globe is heavily overloaded
Aug 30 06:26:57 <timelyx> tinyurlbar is mildly overloaded (and likely to be more so eventually)
Aug 30 06:27:04 <timelyx> go is overloaded w/ reload and stop
Aug 30 06:27:09 <timelyx> back/forward are fairly overloaded
Aug 30 06:27:14 <timelyx> and find has a kitchen sink
Aug 30 06:27:40 <timelyx> the hardware home key already solves windowing
Aug 30 06:27:47 <timelyx> i know. i used it a lot reorganizing bugzilla
Aug 30 06:27:59 <timelyx> and it's fast, globally consistent, and actually works well
Aug 30 06:28:05 <timelyx> now, if you want to get me a good feature
Aug 30 06:28:05 <roope> with the current  design, yes.
Aug 30 06:28:12 <timelyx> i'd take expose or an equivalent
Aug 30 06:28:22 <timelyx> something that lets me see small window previews of my open app windows
Aug 30 06:28:33 <timelyx> i talked w/ eero about that over lunch yesterday
Aug 30 06:34:23 <roope> yeah, there are several ways to do switching.
Aug 30 06:37:27 <ysss__> timelyx: it's an extra step, depending on how you are holding the IT, it may be inconvenient, etc ;) That's nitpicking like a crybaby probably, but enhancement no less.
Aug 30 06:39:09 <ysss__> w/ limited screen space, i think it's inevitable to incorporate gestures to represent more actions.
Aug 30 06:40:14 * timelyx kicks ysss__
Aug 30 06:40:25 <timelyx> anyone suggesting gestures will be shot
Aug 30 06:40:28 <timelyx> consider yourself shot
Aug 30 06:40:31 * ysss__ deftly dodges the attempt.
Aug 30 06:40:38 * timelyx doesn't miss
Aug 30 06:40:43 <ysss__> Why? It's conceptually sound.
Aug 30 06:40:51 <timelyx> it breaks the web
Aug 30 06:40:55 <timelyx> it breaks maps.google.com
Aug 30 06:40:58 <timelyx> it breaks docs.google.com
Aug 30 06:41:03 <timelyx> it breaks reader.google.com
Aug 30 06:41:12 <timelyx> it isn't sound
Aug 30 06:41:17 <timelyx> it's arrogant and stupid
Aug 30 06:41:27 <timelyx> it makes suppositions which are known bad
Aug 30 06:41:57 <ysss__> You have limited screen estate, you can only point at single pixel\icons currently, other than expanding the screen by smartly 'hiding' the elements, you can just incorporate motion...
Aug 30 06:42:09 <timelyx> no.
Aug 30 06:42:14 <timelyx> because the web applications respond to motion
Aug 30 06:42:17 <timelyx> and then you break them
Aug 30 06:42:19 <ysss__> How about gestures, but not on the whole screen.
Aug 30 06:42:20 <timelyx> and then users complain
Aug 30 06:42:25 <ysss__> only gestures that starts\ends on the toolbar, say.
Aug 30 06:42:33 <timelyx> how does that work when people full screen and turn off the toolbar?
Aug 30 06:42:39 <roope> inside the scope of the browser panning IS the gesture already.
Aug 30 06:42:48 <timelyx> roope: which is the biggest pain i have
Aug 30 06:42:51 <timelyx> it already breaks the web
Aug 30 06:42:53 <timelyx> and people complain
Aug 30 06:42:55 <ysss__> instead of back-forward (multiple icons), you have a joystick like interface (single dot), and this shouldn't break any web.
Aug 30 06:42:55 <timelyx> and fairly loudly
Aug 30 06:43:03 <timelyx> and not just people, managers  too
Aug 30 06:43:04 <roope> well, panning won't be going away.
Aug 30 06:43:11 <timelyx> roope: actually, it might
Aug 30 06:43:20 <roope> no, it wont. :)
Aug 30 06:43:45 <timelyx> ysss__: personally, i think expose style is the only way to go
Aug 30 06:43:50 <timelyx> that's probably pie menus and friends
Aug 30 06:44:00 <timelyx> where you use a button offscreen (the app menu button would work)
Aug 30 06:44:06 <timelyx> get a pretty overlay w/ all sorts of things
Aug 30 06:44:20 <ysss__> timelyx: that's the screen estate expansion.. but it involves extra step, yeah?
Aug 30 06:44:20 <timelyx> i'm not pushing that yet
Aug 30 06:44:31 <timelyx> it's safe
Aug 30 06:44:37 <timelyx> you press the hardware menu key
Aug 30 06:44:55 <timelyx> you can't try to use any pixel of real estate
Aug 30 06:44:58 <timelyx> nor any direction
Aug 30 06:45:01 <timelyx> nor any timing
Aug 30 06:45:08 <timelyx> because a web app is free to rely on all of them
Aug 30 06:45:22 <timelyx> you need a way to say "i need talk to the browser and not the web app"
Aug 30 06:45:38 <ysss__> well, yes.
Aug 30 06:45:42 <timelyx> good,
Aug 30 06:46:53 <ysss__> i don't think completely free-hand gesture works, due to the problem you've just described. What I mean is that it's a logical method to expand the function of existing widgets.
Aug 30 06:47:12 <roope> gestures are useful as shortcuts.
Aug 30 06:47:15 <ysss__> Like the joystick analogy, or iphone's sliding button, etc.
Aug 30 06:47:24 <roope> but they cannot be the only bethod to access something.
Aug 30 06:47:31 <timelyx> ++roope
Aug 30 06:47:38 <roope> most users never find them.
Aug 30 06:47:41 <timelyx> ++roope
Aug 30 06:47:43 <ysss__> Yes, agreed.
Aug 30 06:47:52 <timelyx> anyway, while i'm a power user
Aug 30 06:47:56 <timelyx> i will not design for power users
Aug 30 06:47:59 <timelyx> my primary goal is:
Aug 30 06:48:02 <timelyx> 1. do not break the web
Aug 30 06:48:09 <timelyx> my secondary goals are:
Aug 30 06:48:12 <timelyx> 2. do not break the web
Aug 30 06:48:14 <timelyx> 3. see rule #1
Aug 30 06:48:29 <ysss__> pulldown menus are conceptually already incorporating gestures. and it works.
Aug 30 06:48:31 <timelyx> i have tertiary goals of course...
Aug 30 06:48:45 <timelyx> ysss__: actually, it doesn't
Aug 30 06:48:59 <timelyx> roope will almost certainly tell you that people don't discover the app menu in the home scxreen
Aug 30 06:49:00 <roope> going outside the discussion scope of the browser, yes we'll have more gestures
Aug 30 06:49:03 <ysss__> you click on the menu, it expands, you slide and navigate to the desired item.
Aug 30 06:49:10 <timelyx> and often the app menu in applications
Aug 30 06:49:19 <roope> inside the scope of the browser, i don't really see much happening.
Aug 30 06:49:55 <timelyx> i will try to provide solutions. and they probably will include things like oriented navigtion
Aug 30 06:50:18 <timelyx> but they will have to be modal in the sense that you trigger them, use them, and then discard them
Aug 30 06:50:33 <timelyx> they won't be modal in the "you can't interact w/ anything else while open" sense
Aug 30 06:50:51 <timelyx> but they probably will mean "you can't interact directly with things beneath this"
Aug 30 06:51:21 <timelyx> i tried sketching it once on my laptop, i'm not sure if my laptop has blue screened since then
Aug 30 06:51:36 <timelyx> it's hard to keep track, my mac panic'd this week and i'm pretty sure my laptop bluescreened
Aug 30 06:51:45 <ysss__> heh
Aug 30 06:51:56 <timelyx> my workstation has very good uptime
Aug 30 06:52:11 <timelyx> but even the dreamhost mirror of my workstation has bad uptime
Aug 30 06:52:19 <timelyx> and yes, dreamhost blames me :)
Aug 30 06:52:29 <timelyx> [sanjay]$ uptime
Aug 30 06:52:29 <timelyx>  23:52:29 up 7 days,  4:32,  4 users,  load average: 1.09, 1.57, 1.74
Aug 30 06:52:44 <timelyx> but it's not because of load, i'm not killing the box w/ load
Aug 30 06:52:45 <ysss__> gesture works quite well on viewing documents (picsel browser), I guess the main sticking point w/ the browser is that it's an always expanding application by itself.
Aug 30 06:53:05 <timelyx> ysss__: gestures are fine for dead trees
Aug 30 06:53:17 <timelyx> as long as the thing you're poking won't poke back, no problem
Aug 30 06:53:25 <ysss__> yep
Aug 30 06:53:30 <timelyx> but wait until your yabber chat includes a flash avatar
Aug 30 06:53:44 <timelyx> flash is equivalent to the web browser
Aug 30 06:53:56 <timelyx> wait until the pdf viewer stops sucking (this may take several years)
Aug 30 06:53:59 <ysss__> They have picsel browser for the linux motorola phone (e680 or whatever).. it'd be nice if they release for maemo, seeing Nokia already has areement w/ Picsel in the past.
Aug 30 06:54:04 <timelyx> pdf documents can be full applications
Aug 30 06:54:24 * timelyx tries to remember which other things are out there
Aug 30 06:54:32 <timelyx> wait until media player supports SMIL applications
Aug 30 06:54:37 <timelyx> or Flash for that matter ...
Aug 30 06:54:42 <timelyx> those are both full applications
Aug 30 06:54:49 <timelyx> or rather application hosts
Aug 30 06:54:59 <timelyx> wait until image viewer supports full SVG
Aug 30 06:55:05 <timelyx> SVG is a complete application host
Aug 30 06:55:10 <timelyx> hrm, what am i missing?
Aug 30 06:55:23 <ysss__> yeah
Aug 30 06:55:40 <ysss__> i'm missing my lunch
Aug 30 06:55:45 <timelyx> now, you might say, "oh, it's only a browser problem"
Aug 30 06:55:48 <timelyx> but it isn't
Aug 30 06:56:03 <timelyx> and you or whomever says it is shortsighted (and stuck in 1989)
Aug 30 06:56:13 <timelyx> since most of these have been around since the early 90s
Aug 30 06:56:19 <timelyx> certainly interactive PDFs
Aug 30 06:56:32 <timelyx> (yes, our pdf viewer is absolutely useless and doesn't even support forms)
Aug 30 06:56:46 <ysss__> does evince?
Aug 30 06:56:48 <timelyx> Flash probably dates to 95
Aug 30 06:56:53 <timelyx> in my testing? no.
Aug 30 06:57:04 <timelyx> i tried it on a desktop and gave up
Aug 30 06:57:53 <timelyx> before SVG was WMF, i can't recall if it supported interaction
Aug 30 06:58:29 <timelyx> oh, there was also VML which predates SVG
Aug 30 06:58:36 <timelyx> it kinda died, but practically speaking it's coming back
Aug 30 06:58:52 <timelyx> there's also of course standard "applications" like "maemo mapper"
Aug 30 06:59:12 <timelyx> if they try to emulate google maps, then you can't use whatever "clever" gestures you invent
Aug 30 06:59:14 <timelyx> for the same reason
Aug 30 06:59:41 <timelyx> the only solution you have is something like the DOOM (?) port which has a special area you can use as a tap region
Aug 30 06:59:43 <ysss__> Have you used picsel?
Aug 30 07:00:08 <timelyx> seems like it requires flash?
Aug 30 07:00:18 <timelyx> i think roope (?) mentioned it
Aug 30 07:00:36 <timelyx> the special area is basically my plan for browser...
Aug 30 07:01:04 <ysss__> Btw, I don't -like- gesture for the sake of having gesture, I just think it's an underused method that -can- be incorporated smartly to expand user interaction. Both in capability and convenience.
Aug 30 07:01:30 <timelyx> i don't dislike it just for the sake of disliking it
Aug 30 07:01:35 <timelyx> i have good reasons for disliking it
Aug 30 07:01:49 <timelyx> discoverability, failure to solve the root problem of needing a normal way to do something, and breaking the web
Aug 30 07:01:54 <timelyx> (clearly not in that order)
Aug 30 07:02:20 <ysss__> picsel is a document viewer that can read all office files (xls, doc, ppt, just about all text files format, html, pdf, and various image formats). Quite popular on palm and pocketpc..
Aug 30 07:02:39 <ysss__> Ok
Aug 30 07:02:49 <ysss__> ahh kfc is here.. chow time
Aug 30 07:03:01 <timelyx> ysss__/ roope: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=167
Aug 30 07:03:36 <timelyx> ysss__: note that we already have tabs in the browser
Aug 30 07:03:56 <timelyx> they're just not exposed because one of management or a ui designer complained
Aug 30 07:04:02 <timelyx> not sure which, frankly i don't really care
Aug 30 07:04:16 <ysss__> i don't want tabs in n800 browser. i think it's waste of space.
Aug 30 07:05:09 * timelyx neither
Aug 30 07:05:10 <_Monkey> neither are great reasons to consider it
Aug 30 07:05:17 * timelyx considers
Aug 30 07:05:39 <timelyx> anyway, the main reason i don't want tabs is the same reason i don't want open link in background
Aug 30 07:05:43 <timelyx> our device can't handle the load
Aug 30 07:06:00 <timelyx> and making it too easy to switch windows or have lots of windows will fool users into believing it can
Aug 30 07:06:09 <timelyx> resulting in them hurting themselves and thinking the browser sucks
Aug 30 07:06:29 <timelyx> i'm happier to tell them no when they ask for tabs or open link in background
Aug 30 07:06:44 <ysss__> set a limit of open windows.
Aug 30 07:07:10 <timelyx> people will complain or ask for a way to change it
Aug 30 07:08:04 <MoRpHeUz> timelyx: good point about browser's tabs....
Aug 30 07:08:17 <ysss__> i use 2 to 3 (no more than that) browser windows when i have to multitask.
Aug 30 07:08:39 <timelyx> i find myself using 4, which is basically asking for crashes
Aug 30 07:08:44 <ysss__> i want to load new links in background because when i use gprs it's dog slow, and i want it to start loading while i focus on the current window.
Aug 30 07:08:48 <timelyx> i'm usually only really using 3
Aug 30 07:09:00 <timelyx> ysss__: yeah, thing is.... you don't need to do that
Aug 30 07:09:09 <timelyx> are you paying for gprs bits or just airtime?
Aug 30 07:09:20 <timelyx> gecko has a feature to precache links
Aug 30 07:09:28 <ysss__> loading in background will help mask, or alleviate the limitations of the platform (slower performance, high probability of being tethered to slow connnection also)
Aug 30 07:09:38 <timelyx> but the problem is...
Aug 30 07:09:47 <timelyx> in the states especially, but presumably everywhere else
Aug 30 07:09:54 <timelyx> if you're using gprs, you're paying for bandwidth
Aug 30 07:10:04 <timelyx> which means anything we download for you costs money
Aug 30 07:10:04 <ysss__> not everywhere else definitely
Aug 30 07:10:22 <timelyx> i say for you. because nokia pays my bill, and therefore i personally shouldn't care
Aug 30 07:10:31 <ysss__> heh
Aug 30 07:10:34 <timelyx> but my sister complains about minutes that i spend when i call her
Aug 30 07:10:44 <timelyx> and she'd complain if i sent her an sms
Aug 30 07:11:02 <timelyx> (which is reasonable since it's cheaper for me to call her and easier for both of us if i use email)
Aug 30 07:11:26 <timelyx> and most plans in the states/canada charge a fair bit by the byte
Aug 30 07:11:35 <timelyx> now, it's true, apple (*not* nokia) is changing this
Aug 30 07:11:56 <timelyx> but until it does, turning on a precache feature by default is a really bad idea
Aug 30 07:12:03 <timelyx> if you have microb, you can see if the feature works
Aug 30 07:12:08 <timelyx> (i don't use it)
Aug 30 07:14:24 <ysss__> but what does bandwidth cost has to do with having an (optional?) feature of loading new links in the background?
Aug 30 07:14:56 <timelyx> imagine instead of having to click links
Aug 30 07:15:08 <timelyx> that your browser automatically precached the content for the links
Aug 30 07:15:10 <ysss__> I see this having to do more w/ browsing habit and slow connections.
Aug 30 07:15:11 <timelyx> w/o loading them
Aug 30 07:15:23 <timelyx> note that loading is the expensive thing to the browser
Aug 30 07:15:26 <timelyx> it doesn't mind downloading
Aug 30 07:15:31 <timelyx> but loading is *very* expensive
Aug 30 07:15:36 <timelyx> it requires lots of memory and lots of cpu
Aug 30 07:15:45 <ysss__> I'd be pissed and confused, because that's such a wasteful logic.
Aug 30 07:16:09 * timelyx shrugs
Aug 30 07:16:16 <ysss__> because it very likely will be loading links that I will probably not open.
Aug 30 07:16:37 <timelyx> *shrug*
Aug 30 07:16:47 <timelyx> if you're not paying for bandwidth but value time, it could be worth it
Aug 30 07:16:50 <ysss__> I think we're talking about a different thing..?
Aug 30 07:16:51 <timelyx> if you're paying for bandwidth
Aug 30 07:17:01 <timelyx> then i suggest not opening links in background
Aug 30 07:17:09 <timelyx> you can easily end up downloading a huge thing that you don't want
Aug 30 07:17:22 <timelyx> or worse, your browser will probably crash and you'll have no idea why
Aug 30 07:17:25 <ysss__> when I say load things in the background, I mean I choose a link, select to 'open it in new window', and have the window load NOT IN FOCUS
Aug 30 07:17:41 <timelyx> yes, i know
Aug 30 07:17:42 <ysss__> not precache all links on your current page
Aug 30 07:17:55 <timelyx> actually, the algorithm doesn't pick them all
Aug 30 07:18:01 <timelyx> it's theoretically smarter than that
Aug 30 07:20:32 <guardian> morning
Aug 30 07:20:33 <_Monkey> aloha
Aug 30 07:20:52 <ysss__> moin
Aug 30 07:25:41 <ysss__> oh wootoff
Aug 30 07:30:12 <unique311> i cannot get java going on my n800 to save my life
Aug 30 07:30:31 <unique311> installed the jalimo packages
Aug 30 07:30:45 <unique311> can't get the .jar files going
Aug 30 07:56:41 <konttori> iSo, what do you guys think of the new nokia interface: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeCKIRfElaI
Aug 30 07:56:59 <konttori> for the 'n', not 'i' phones.
Aug 30 07:57:36 <timelyx> nor 'e'
Aug 30 07:58:02 <timelyx> it sounds like BeOS twicher
Aug 30 07:58:14 <timelyx> too bad BeOS had it um...
Aug 30 07:58:35 <timelyx> 15 years ago
Aug 30 07:59:06 <konttori> pretty good actual user test video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dZ5krLWcq4&NR=1
Aug 30 07:59:35 <timelyx> are they replacing the awful nav button w/ a better one?
Aug 30 08:00:13 <konttori> dpad? Well, judging from the video, it's different, and I hope it's impossible to make a worse dpad.
Aug 30 08:00:21 * timelyx chuckles
Aug 30 08:00:31 <timelyx> i've seen most of those bits, both hardware and software demod
Aug 30 08:00:43 <timelyx> i wonder if there's a public announcement about the other detail
Aug 30 08:00:53 <timelyx> but yeah, overall it looks like an improvemnet
Aug 30 08:00:58 <timelyx> ent
Aug 30 08:01:29 <timelyx> i'd still probably buy a gen2 iPhone or a gen 2 gPhone
Aug 30 08:02:14 <konttori> the latter video says the controls are of ngage class, but then again, it's produced by NokNokTv, so I wouldn't trust it that much
Aug 30 08:02:14 <timelyx> i played w/ the iPhone last friday for <20mins, and the features it has work better than the two videos you linked
Aug 30 08:02:31 <timelyx> and i presume that nokia put their best face forward
Aug 30 08:02:39 <timelyx> whereas i managed to crash safari on the iPhone :)
Aug 30 08:04:01 <konttori> Nice. Did it run out of mem or what crashed it?
Aug 30 08:04:14 <konttori> I would think that webkit is already stable enough itself.
Aug 30 08:04:25 <timelyx> dunno
Aug 30 08:04:32 <timelyx> i wasn't using a complicated page in the end
Aug 30 08:04:33 <MKB> porbably just timelyx's bad gadget karma :P
Aug 30 08:04:47 <timelyx> although i had loaded planet earlier
Aug 30 08:04:59 <timelyx> i think it ended up being a simple bugzilla page that did it in :)
Aug 30 08:05:11 <timelyx> konttori: all things considered, it's still not so bad
Aug 30 08:05:14 <konttori> the 'new navi wheel' looks quite tedious to use. The circle is so small.
Aug 30 08:05:27 <timelyx> i bluescreened the samsung Q1 when i got it
Aug 30 08:05:32 <timelyx> in approximately similar testing
Aug 30 08:05:38 <konttori> true. Might be a nice phone in the end. And I love the A + B button placement there.
Aug 30 08:05:56 <timelyx> is this the n81?
Aug 30 08:06:05 <konttori> yeah.
Aug 30 08:06:09 <timelyx> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=394208 sad
Aug 30 08:06:38 <konttori> You can see the buttons pretty well in this pic: http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/29/nokias-n81-slider-is-a-real-n-gager/
Aug 30 08:07:04 <timelyx> hrm
Aug 30 08:07:19 <timelyx> so it has a b. does it have select start?
Aug 30 08:07:47 <konttori> Well, it has other buttons. I suppose they can be used for select start.
Aug 30 08:08:02 <konttori> select start are not that used, so their placement is not that important
Aug 30 08:08:35 <timelyx> modern gamepads have ab xy lr select start
Aug 30 08:08:56 <timelyx> or at least, they did when i was growing up
Aug 30 08:09:08 <timelyx> the wii is of course slightly different from the snes
Aug 30 08:09:19 <timelyx> or n64
Aug 30 08:09:48 <konttori> yeah, well, of course xy would be nice, but AB are the necessities. XY are nice but not a must have.
Aug 30 08:10:06 * timelyx nods
Aug 30 08:10:15 <timelyx> getting ab is definitely a good start
Aug 30 08:10:24 <timelyx> but it's like, hello, welcome to 1985
Aug 30 08:10:37 <timelyx> i'm glad nokia is out of the stone age and only 20 years behind
Aug 30 08:11:04 <konttori> true. But then again, the casual games you'd play on mobile phone don't necessarily need that many keys anyway.
Aug 30 08:11:17 <timelyx> depends what you're trying to do
Aug 30 08:11:26 <konttori> I don't see myself playing street fighter on that thing.
Aug 30 08:11:32 <timelyx> i played actraiser on my sony ericsion s710a
Aug 30 08:11:41 <timelyx> it worked quite well
Aug 30 08:11:54 <timelyx> i'd never consider doing it on any of the nokia phones i have
Aug 30 08:11:58 <konttori> I might like to play final fantasy or just about any casual game. Most of them do pretty well with just 2 buttons.
Aug 30 08:12:05 <timelyx> and i have probably 4 atm w/ a 5th on the way
Aug 30 08:12:22 <konttori> I had ngage, which was really great for picodrive.
Aug 30 08:12:30 <timelyx> picodrive?
Aug 30 08:12:52 <konttori> I played through the megadrive catalogue that I originally missed with it.
Aug 30 08:13:09 <konttori> Yeah, you get 100% speed on full screen for megadrive / genesis games
Aug 30 08:13:40 <konttori> and state saving and loading with touch of a button. thus, it was perfectly fine for casual sessions as well.
Aug 30 08:13:42 <timelyx> sorry, i don't recognize picodrive, is it a game or an engine? i could google, but i'm reading one of your links
Aug 30 08:14:00 <konttori> picodrive is a megadrive / genesis emulator
Aug 30 08:14:28 <konttori> uses cyclone, a pure ARM assember emulator of 68000 processor
Aug 30 08:14:35 <timelyx> heh
Aug 30 08:15:23 <konttori> which made it as fast as it was. Really great stuff from just two coders.
Aug 30 08:16:03 <konttori> Nokia should put an emu there with DRM and agree with sega to start selling original genesis catalogue for it.
Aug 30 08:16:21 <timelyx> anyway, i'm not really sure i want games specificlaly
Aug 30 08:16:27 <timelyx> i mostly want it to be possible
Aug 30 08:16:36 <konttori> now that would make ngage a true platform instantly
Aug 30 08:16:37 <timelyx> if the device can't handle them, it's in trouble
Aug 30 08:16:59 <timelyx> what prevents nintendo someday from moving into the cell industry? :)
Aug 30 08:17:24 <konttori> I think nintendo is wise enough company to focus on gaming.
Aug 30 08:17:25 <timelyx> they have better ui engineers, better customer relations, better marketing ...
Aug 30 08:17:57 <konttori> it might add audio / video conferencing to mobile and tv platforms, but nintendo will always focus on gaming first.
Aug 30 08:18:15 <timelyx> they already have a web browser
Aug 30 08:18:26 <timelyx> but yeah, i don't expect them to move away from game as core
Aug 30 08:18:33 <bilboed> anybody knows if those new nokia devices are maemo-based ?
Aug 30 08:18:38 <timelyx> but that doesn't mean their devices couldn't come in and kill
Aug 30 08:18:41 <timelyx> bilboed: they aren't
Aug 30 08:18:44 <timelyx> they're s60
Aug 30 08:18:51 <konttori> they are S60 based
Aug 30 08:18:51 <bilboed> timelyx, argh, sucks
Aug 30 08:18:53 <timelyx> nokia is converging on ideas
Aug 30 08:19:02 <timelyx> so similar things might come from maemo too
Aug 30 08:19:15 <timelyx> but nokia likes reinventing the same bad or good ideas more than once
Aug 30 08:19:20 <bilboed> :)
Aug 30 08:19:25 <timelyx> more chances for different mistakes and inconsitencies
Aug 30 08:19:32 <konttori> yeah, and next big maemo release might be a leap forward.
Aug 30 08:19:38 <timelyx> or backwards
Aug 30 08:19:43 <konttori> or sideways
Aug 30 08:19:45 <timelyx> life is like a box of chocolates...
Aug 30 08:19:58 * timelyx wonders if konttori can fill in the rest
Aug 30 08:20:27 <konttori> you have to work for nokia to know what you are getting next?
Aug 30 08:20:47 <timelyx> eh
Aug 30 08:20:50 <timelyx> heh
Aug 30 08:21:18 <timelyx> even if you work for nokia you never know
Aug 30 08:24:12 <guardian> hi, i wanted to reinstall my 3.1 sdk by launching the script
Aug 30 08:24:25 <guardian> when installing the targets, it says "Adding unselected devkit: debian"
Aug 30 08:24:32 <guardian> then it fails to install the virtual packages
Aug 30 08:24:33 <guardian> any idea ?
Aug 30 08:31:47 <ysss__> timelyx: which version of microb do you use?
Aug 30 08:32:20 <timelyx> um, depends where
Aug 30 08:32:28 <timelyx> but generally the 2nd beta release
Aug 30 08:32:59 <timelyx> i'm not certain and don't pay too much attn to it
Aug 30 08:33:12 <roope> Well, I at least complained about browser tabs.
Aug 30 08:33:19 <roope> But so did my managers.
Aug 30 08:33:31 <timelyx> practically speaking, i only need bug reports
Aug 30 08:33:31 <timelyx> i can fix things based on them
Aug 30 08:33:31 <timelyx> see bug 255
Aug 30 08:33:31 * timelyx eyes _Monkey
Aug 30 08:33:32 <timelyx> did someone turn that off?
Aug 30 08:33:32 <_Monkey> Bug 255 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=255
Aug 30 08:34:43 <ysss__> timelyx: does this work on yours? http://individuals.interactivebrokers.com/en/software/demoWebTrader.php
Aug 30 08:38:42 <roope> Sorry, so how I set myself ot watch a certain component on the public bugzilla.
Aug 30 08:39:00 <roope> I just set to watch that email address?
Aug 30 08:39:11 <roope> That's 'logical' :p
Aug 30 08:41:18 <timelyx> roope: the point is you can watch anyone
Aug 30 08:41:20 <timelyx> not just components
Aug 30 08:41:28 <timelyx> anyway, you figured it out
Aug 30 08:41:40 <timelyx> ysss__: gimme a bit
Aug 30 08:42:07 <timelyx> roope: if there's a component which isn't dying which has a qa that's used in another place, let me know, and i'll fix it
Aug 30 08:42:55 <ysss__> timelyx: sure. a few friends who trade on IB want to buy n800 if the demo on that page loads.
Aug 30 08:47:14 <timelyx> ysss__: i hope you're willing to walk me through using this thing
Aug 30 08:50:23 <timelyx> ysss__: i got a server error
Aug 30 08:51:49 <ysss__> timelyx: it should show a table instead of the server error.
Aug 30 08:52:28 <ysss__> timelyx: desktop firefox works fine with it. I don't know about opera.
Aug 30 08:55:18 <timelyx> ysss__: if you disable plugins on desktop, does it work?
Aug 30 08:55:31 <timelyx> also, are you trying minefield or ff2?
Aug 30 08:55:51 <timelyx> oh, also, while you're at it
Aug 30 08:55:59 <timelyx> go to about: in your microb
Aug 30 08:56:01 <ysss__> timelyx: firefox v2. i will try disabling plugins.
Aug 30 08:56:04 <timelyx> copy the useragent from it
Aug 30 08:56:08 <timelyx> go to about:config in firefox
Aug 30 08:56:43 <timelyx> right click (* or whatever)
Aug 30 08:56:48 <timelyx> select new>string
Aug 30 08:56:52 <timelyx> general.useragent.override
Aug 30 08:56:58 <timelyx> ok
Aug 30 08:57:07 <timelyx> enter the useragent you got from about: in microb
Aug 30 08:58:16 <ysss__> ok
Aug 30 09:01:29 <konttori> I was just trying to play with fceu but I can't realy get it to work.
Aug 30 09:01:35 <konttori> I installed from extras.
Aug 30 09:01:41 <timelyx> what's that?
Aug 30 09:01:56 <konttori> the nes emulator for maemo
Aug 30 09:02:41 <florian> good morning
Aug 30 09:04:30 <timelyx> noon
Aug 30 09:05:47 <ysss__> Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux armv6l; en-GB; rv:1.9a6pre) Gecko/20070810 Firefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.1.16 RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8
Aug 30 09:05:53 <ysss__> is that all useragent string?
Aug 30 09:07:19 <timelyx> yes
Aug 30 09:07:42 <konttori> fceu seems otherwise just fine, but the fullscreen mode won't toggle on correctly and I don't see the right side on screen buttons at all
Aug 30 09:15:24 * konttori posted a description of the problem to internettablettalk. I hope it will find its way to the developers / porters. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72085#post72085
Aug 30 09:16:47 <timelyx> oh darn
Aug 30 09:16:56 * timelyx was supposed to have a meeting w/ someone
Aug 30 09:16:58 <timelyx> oops
Aug 30 09:17:02 <timelyx> roope: i'm running nin now
Aug 30 09:18:07 <ysss__> timelyx: yes, it's the useragent.
Aug 30 09:19:59 <timelyx> fwiw, our useragent is invalid
Aug 30 09:20:06 <timelyx> but that's not really relevant
Aug 30 09:20:18 <timelyx> feel free to file a bug documenting the steps you took to discover it was their fault
Aug 30 09:20:29 <timelyx> i.e. each question i asked, each step you took to test
Aug 30 09:20:34 <timelyx> then mark it invalid
Aug 30 09:20:46 <timelyx> it's good to have places explaining how to analyze...
Aug 30 09:21:56 <ysss__> will do.
Aug 30 09:22:28 <ysss__> Have you heard of any other sites inaccessible due to microb's useragent string?
Aug 30 09:27:02 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Aug 30 09:27:25 <ysss__> morning
Aug 30 09:27:25 <_Monkey> aloha
Aug 30 09:33:09 <timeless> roope: you make it to the office?
Aug 30 09:46:00 <AD-N770> good morning
Aug 30 09:47:50 <kulve> AD-N770: hmm.. You're a asm guru, right? :)
Aug 30 09:54:10 <AD-N770> kulve: not bad
Aug 30 09:55:49 <kulve> http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/speex/libspeex/arch.h
Aug 30 09:56:10 <kulve> AD-N770: does those functions look like something that could be "easily" ported to use dsp asm?
Aug 30 09:56:19 <kulve> blackfin example: http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/speex/libspeex/fixed_bfin.h
Aug 30 10:04:25 <roope> Well now.
Aug 30 10:04:30 <timeless> you're in?
Aug 30 10:05:16 <roope> yeah.
Aug 30 10:05:24 <timeless> ok, over in 2mins)
Aug 30 10:06:12 <ysss__> timeless: why is microb useragent invalid?
Aug 30 10:06:25 <timeless> ysss__: the rule is X/Y not X Y
Aug 30 10:06:36 <timeless> and we have "Tablet browser" or something
Aug 30 10:06:44 <ysss__> yeah there is.
Aug 30 10:07:18 <timeless> http://www.mozilla.org/build/revised-user-agent-strings.html
Aug 30 10:07:18 <ysss__> So that's the reason for interactivebrokers.com rejecting microb.
Aug 30 10:13:51 <timeless> might be the right spec
Aug 30 10:13:51 <timeless> not sure
Aug 30 10:13:51 <timeless> but in short, it's not valid
Aug 30 10:13:51 <timeless> trust me
Aug 30 10:13:51 <timeless> but the odds that the site *knows* it isn't valid are nill :)
Aug 30 10:14:52 <AD-N770> kulve: I don't tried to write dsp asm yet
Aug 30 10:15:27 <AD-N770> kulve: but looks like something that fits on dsp
Aug 30 10:21:50 <kulve> AD-N770: I've got that running fine on the dsp now, but it's slightly slower than realtime without the asm optimizations
Aug 30 10:24:34 <kulve> timeless: you were involved about planning the new bugzilla components?
Aug 30 10:26:47 <kulve> the description for "System software" seems to be "Hildon Application Framework" even though it includes also the lower level stuff like busybox etc..
Aug 30 10:44:00 <lardman> morning
Aug 30 10:44:01 <_Monkey> aloha
Aug 30 10:44:29 <lardman> _Monkey: Do you think I'm Hawaiian?
Aug 30 10:44:30 <_Monkey> lardman: no idea
Aug 30 10:44:38 <lardman> _Monkey: I'm not
Aug 30 10:44:38 <_Monkey> lardman: huh?
Aug 30 10:44:45 <lardman> silly bot
Aug 30 10:45:12 <lardman> ah well, I suppose aloha is mainstream enough for me
Aug 30 10:50:25 <lardman> kulve: have you looked at the dsplib docs, etc.?
Aug 30 10:53:04 <kulve> lardman: quickly. It seemed to contain a bit too complex functions for me. I.e. they would probably be useful if I would like to port the whole speex to dsp, but it's enough for me to get just the basic math functions ported
Aug 30 10:53:51 <lardman> I've read some docs about optimisations for the c55
Aug 30 10:53:55 <lardman> trying to dig them out
Aug 30 10:56:34 <lardman> Well the dsplib has vector add, etc.
Aug 30 10:57:14 <lardman> and max, min
Aug 30 10:57:32 <lardman> spru422h.pdf if you don't have it open
Aug 30 10:59:00 <lardman> The TMS320C55x DSP Programmer’s Guide (spru376a.pdf) is probably what you want
Aug 30 10:59:24 <lardman> Particularly ch3 - Optimizing (sic) C Code
Aug 30 10:59:47 <kulve> 422h is old ;)
Aug 30 11:00:05 <lardman> is it? I'll have to grab an updated one then
Aug 30 11:00:48 <kulve> 422i seems to be newer. Dunno if there are any real differencies..
Aug 30 11:01:26 <lardman> okay, I'll grab that one and delete the old one
Aug 30 11:22:18 <xlence> bonjour
Aug 30 11:22:18 <_Monkey> hey, xlence
Aug 30 11:22:47 <xlence> y a t-il des francais ici ?
Aug 30 11:23:43 <lardman> pourquoi?
Aug 30 11:24:11 <pello> non y a pas de francais
Aug 30 11:24:52 <xlence> simplement parce que je pensé que c'été principalement un canal anglophone
Aug 30 11:24:59 <xlence> et que moi et l'anglais sa fais deux
Aug 30 11:24:59 <xlence> ;)
Aug 30 11:25:07 <lardman> oui, c'est vrai
Aug 30 11:25:19 <pello> apparemment tu as aussi du mal en français lol
Aug 30 11:25:45 <xlence> un peu
Aug 30 11:25:46 <xlence> lol
Aug 30 11:26:18 <xlence> je viens de recevoir mon n800 et j'ai des questions. y a t-il quelqu'un qui a un peu de temps pour m'aider ?
Aug 30 11:26:42 <pello> je viens de terminer l'apéro
Aug 30 11:26:49 <pello> c'est l'heure de manger
Aug 30 11:26:53 <lardman> oui, mais seulement avec francais facilement
Aug 30 11:26:56 <pello> mais vas-y
Aug 30 11:27:22 <kulve> älämölö
Aug 30 11:28:05 <lardman> The other option is a private conversation to avoid contravening the English only rule
Aug 30 11:28:16 <celesteh_rules> je parle un peu de français.  Qu'est que c'est vos questions?
Aug 30 11:28:24 <celesteh_rules> it's a rule?
Aug 30 11:28:31 <lardman> dunno
Aug 30 11:28:32 <xlence> je n'arrive pas a installer certain programme comme mnotify, kagu, mirage, ...
Aug 30 11:28:48 <xlence> il me dit que certaines librairies sont manquantes
Aug 30 11:29:24 <pupnikzzz> tr: he's missing some libraries
Aug 30 11:29:33 <lardman> You need to ensure you have certain additional repositories defined
Aug 30 11:30:08 <xlence> how to add repositories ?
Aug 30 11:30:10 <celesteh_rules> vous avez le "application manager"
Aug 30 11:30:39 <celesteh_rules> il faut que vous avoir plus de "repositories"
Aug 30 11:31:04 <celesteh_rules> il y a un menu qui s'apple 'Tools'
Aug 30 11:31:16 <pupnikzzz> http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php   there's a repository index i hadn't seen before - nice overview
Aug 30 11:31:39 <celesteh_rules> et la il y a un Application Catalog
Aug 30 11:31:47 <celesteh_rules> cliquez ça
Aug 30 11:31:51 <lardman> would be good if it had install files for each repo too
Aug 30 11:32:00 <pupnikzzz> great idea
Aug 30 11:35:51 <pupnikzzz> i wonder how one would say "one needs to add repositories in the application manager"?  On peut ...
Aug 30 11:36:09 <lardman> On doit
Aug 30 11:36:21 <pupnikzzz> heh ok :)
Aug 30 11:36:57 <celesteh_rules> cliquez "new"
Aug 30 11:36:57 <celesteh_rules> ici, c'est une liste de repositories:  http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
Aug 30 11:37:01 <celesteh_rules> utilizez cette list pour mettre neuveaux repositories dans le applications manager
Aug 30 11:37:13 <celesteh_rules> pour example:  catalog name:  Debian Nokia repository , Web address: http://repository.maemo.org/extras , Distribution: bora, Components: free non-free
Aug 30 11:37:20 <celesteh_rules> what, my mangled french not good enough?  ;)
Aug 30 11:37:42 <lardman> certainly faster than mine :)
Aug 30 11:38:54 <celesteh_rules> i lived in france for a year, but, to aparaphrase mark twain, i never did have any luck getting those folks to understand their own language
Aug 30 11:39:22 <lardman> :D
Aug 30 11:41:03 <xlence> ok j'ai pu installer mnotify et kagu grace à : http://repository.maemo.org/ bora | free non-free
Aug 30 11:41:09 <xlence> merci pour votre aide
Aug 30 11:42:11 <celesteh_rules> super
Aug 30 11:44:03 <xlence> il ni a plus que skype que je n'arrive pas à installer
Aug 30 11:44:26 <melmoth> "Il faut ajouter des repository dans le gestionnaire de programmes"
Aug 30 11:44:34 <xlence> applications manquantes : osso-dsp-modules-rx-34 , libplayback-1.0 ........
Aug 30 11:44:40 <melmoth> i use "repository" even when speaking french.
Aug 30 11:44:44 <xlence> mais lequel ?
Aug 30 11:46:21 <xlence> etant basé sur Debian, ni a t-il pas un fichier liste avec les repository que vous pourriez m'envoyer avfin de remplacer le mien ?
Aug 30 11:46:30 <xlence> genre sources.list
Aug 30 11:46:36 <melmoth> il ya un sources.list
Aug 30 11:46:47 <melmoth> xlence tu as deja un xtemr ou ssh d installé ?
Aug 30 11:46:56 <xlence> xterm oui
Aug 30 11:46:56 <lardman> Do you have the latest flash image? Skype should just install without problems
Aug 30 11:47:19 <melmoth> farpait.tu as le meme probleme en utilisant apt-get plutot que le gestionnaire graphique la ?
Aug 30 11:47:40 <melmoth> Et deuxieme piste: sois sur d activer le mode 'red pill'
Aug 30 11:47:46 <pupnikzzz> hmm "ajouter" - to add-to
Aug 30 11:47:46 <xlence> ma version est IT OS 2007 ver. 3.2007.10-7
Aug 30 11:48:01 <xlence> c'est quoi le mode red pill ?
Aug 30 11:48:09 <melmoth> bouge pas
Aug 30 11:48:12 <celesteh_rules> je pense que c'est necessaire à 'flash' votre n800 avec un neu 'operating system'
Aug 30 11:48:31 <melmoth> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/enableredpillmode/
Aug 30 11:48:36 <melmoth> :)
Aug 30 11:48:51 <melmoth> Je pense qu'il est necessaire de reflasher ton n800 avec une nouveau systeme d exploitation :)
Aug 30 11:49:16 <melmoth> effectivement skype il marhe que avec le dernier qui est plsu recent
Aug 30 11:49:47 <lardman> See what the version is - control panel or "cat /proc/version" ?
Aug 30 11:50:05 <lardman> not sure about the last one, but something buried under /proc
Aug 30 11:50:43 <xlence> ok
Aug 30 11:50:52 <xlence> j'ai activé le mode red pill
Aug 30 11:51:16 <xlence> cela me fais un peu peur de le flascher alors que je viens juste de le recevoir et que je ne le maitrise pas encore
Aug 30 11:51:22 <xlence> est ce simple ?
Aug 30 11:51:25 <kulve> cat /etc/osso_software_version
Aug 30 11:51:34 <melmoth> c est tres simple xlence
Aug 30 11:51:46 <xlence> meme en etant sur un pc avec linux ?
Aug 30 11:52:07 <melmoth> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/
Aug 30 11:52:33 <melmoth> je ne sais pas comment ca se passe ailleurs que sous linux
Aug 30 11:52:54 * pupnik sits in the corner and plays accordion
Aug 30 11:53:00 <melmoth> tu trouve l application flasher qui va bien avec ta distrib. Tu trouve le firmware qui va bien avec ta tablette
Aug 30 11:53:09 <melmoth> diatonic one ?
Aug 30 11:53:11 <zeenix> am i on the wrong channel? :)
Aug 30 11:53:12 <lardman> mais voir le version tout d'abord
Aug 30 11:53:18 <melmoth> And now for your french lesson :)
Aug 30 11:53:25 <lardman> zeenix: We're learing french :)
Aug 30 11:54:17 <derf> I would've gone with "on a besoin de" instead of "on doit", but French class was a long time ago.
Aug 30 11:54:31 <pupnik> "It's like.. they've got a different word for *everything*!" - Steve Martin
Aug 30 11:54:40 <lardman> derf: True, I was going for a commanding attitude ;)
Aug 30 11:54:53 <derf> Well, then, carry on.
Aug 30 11:55:06 <zeenix> lardman: what for? even jean-luc pickard doesn't speak french
Aug 30 11:55:34 <melmoth> xlence la derniere version est bien RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin
Aug 30 11:56:09 <lardman> zeenix: We took pity on a chap who doesn't speak English, but he's probably still better than we are
Aug 30 11:56:19 <lardman> at English ;)
Aug 30 11:57:11 <xlence> ok je suis sous ubuntu feisty, mais sur le site http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php il ni a que pour dapper et il n'est pas préciser comme sur les autres si c'est pour le n800 ou e n770
Aug 30 11:57:54 <pupnik> melmoth: vous etes sure il n'a pas le it2007 version moste recente?
Aug 30 11:58:46 <melmoth> i am .
Aug 30 11:58:54 <xlence> la version flasher-3.0-static est elle bonne autrement ? sachant que mon pc est sous intel ?
Aug 30 11:59:17 <melmoth> source=http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php (you need to log in with your n800 mac address first)
Aug 30 11:59:19 <timeless> kulve: yes, i haven't gotten around to fixing the description
Aug 30 11:59:25 <timeless> provide a better description and i'll use it :)
Aug 30 11:59:39 <lardman> xlence: Oui, il va marcher
Aug 30 11:59:52 <lardman> or elle va marche
Aug 30 11:59:54 <melmoth> xlence, ca devrait pas poser de pb, tu as choisi static, donc meme si tu nas pas les lib qu il faut, elles sont dans le binaire
Aug 30 12:00:08 <xlence> ok, je suis entrain d'essayer d'enlever la batterie... y a un truc ou quoi pour l'enlever
Aug 30 12:00:10 <xlence> j'arrive pas
Aug 30 12:00:11 <xlence> ;)
Aug 30 12:00:22 <melmoth> en general, je donne un chti coup sec
Aug 30 12:00:36 <melmoth> sinon, je crois que c est ta mac addresse, donc ifconfig et tu l as
Aug 30 12:02:10 <melmoth> xlence, c est effectivement ta mac addresse, sans les :
Aug 30 12:02:16 <xlence> ok, j'ai recuperer le dernier firmware
Aug 30 12:02:58 <xlence> question , est ce que cela va m'effacer ce que j'ai deja configurer dans le n800 (different point d'acces wifi, association avec le tel, programme installer ?)
Aug 30 12:03:38 <ysss__> what's up, my french homey..
Aug 30 12:03:48 <pupnik> this is very educational
Aug 30 12:04:53 <pupnik> oui, flashing the n800 will erase configuration and installed programs
Aug 30 12:05:20 * lardman wonders if this conversation will still be going on when he gets back in an hour?
Aug 30 12:05:48 <xlence> ok, thank pupnik and melmoth
Aug 30 12:06:47 <pupnik> :)
Aug 30 12:10:37 <xlence> faut il brancher le chargeur pour le flasher ? faut il le cable USB d'origine ? (il me reste 1h en utilisation et j'ai un cable USB normal)
Aug 30 12:13:28 <pupnik> non et non
Aug 30 12:13:33 <geaaru> hi at all, with new browser (mozilla engine) can i start browser in fullscreen mode?
Aug 30 12:16:04 <timeless> pupnik/kulve: got a suggested description for the System software product?
Aug 30 12:19:08 <xlence> je resume ce qu'il faut faire, merci de me dire si c'est bon ou pas :
Aug 30 12:19:16 <xlence> on debranche le chargeur, on eteint le n800 et on le connecte au port USB du PC
Aug 30 12:19:16 <xlence> On lance ./flasher-3.0 -F RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.26-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R
Aug 30 12:19:16 <xlence> Un message "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" apparait sur la console
Aug 30 12:19:16 <xlence> brancher le chargeur
Aug 30 12:19:31 <xlence> après je comprend pas trop ce qu'il faut faire ...
Aug 30 12:21:29 <melmoth> xlence, de mémoire, attendre.
Aug 30 12:21:33 <melmoth> apres, ca reboote
Aug 30 12:21:36 <melmoth> et  c est fait.
Aug 30 12:21:39 <kulve> I think this channel should be english-only ..
Aug 30 12:21:53 <melmoth> xlence, /msg pour du francais :)
Aug 30 12:21:54 <xlence> mais il faut brancher le chargeur ? ou 1h de batterie suffit ?
Aug 30 12:22:36 <melmoth> je l ai toujours fait avec la betterie pleine, mais y en a jamais eu pour une heure, beaucoup moins (5mn )
Aug 30 12:22:48 <eijk> Hi!
Aug 30 12:23:03 <melmoth> i always did it withe a full battery (reflash), but it never has been an hour long process, it s more a matter of 5 mn
Aug 30 12:23:06 <xlence> ok, je tente de te parler en pv melmoth mais sa ne passe pas
Aug 30 12:23:09 <xlence> peux tu essayer ?
Aug 30 12:26:15 <eijk> I have got a small problem: I installed the bootmenu and copied the rootfs to MMC. Works fine, except: The filemanager now crashes as soon as I click anything in the left hand panel.
Aug 30 12:26:48 <eijk> When I boot from flash for comparison, this does not happen. Could the file manager have problems with a rootfs of ~500 MB size?
Aug 30 12:27:10 <kulve> eijk: I had the same problem with the previous it2007 version, with mmc and with flash.
Aug 30 12:27:33 <pupnik> xlence /msg nickserv help  /msg nickserv register   /msg nickserv identify  pour les messages privat
Aug 30 12:27:34 <kulve> althouhg my rootfs was a lot smaller that 500M
Aug 30 12:27:37 <eijk> Sorry, should have read "right hand panel". Left hand panel seems to work to some degree....
Aug 30 12:27:53 <kulve> eijk: are you running the latest version?
Aug 30 12:28:01 <kulve> n800/770?
Aug 30 12:28:11 <eijk> kulve: I am on the latest OS2006 on a 770.
Aug 30 12:28:16 <kulve> oh
Aug 30 12:28:31 <kulve> I have n800 and same sounding problem.. Or had the problem
Aug 30 12:45:29 <eijk> ssvb: Are you there?
Aug 30 12:54:01 <guardian> does it ring a bell: /scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set
Aug 30 12:54:13 <guardian> i just reinstalled scratchbox and sdks from the scripts provided on repository.maemo.org :(
Aug 30 12:55:00 <cosmo> forgot to set cpu transparency method when creating target?
Aug 30 12:55:12 <guardian> well the script created the targets
Aug 30 12:55:18 <guardian> and i'm using the i386 one
Aug 30 12:57:55 <guardian> got it i guess
Aug 30 12:58:06 <pupnik_> what was the solution?
Aug 30 12:58:07 <guardian> the package i'm using erroneously contains an armel executable
Aug 30 12:58:11 <guardian> launched from postinst
Aug 30 12:58:13 <pupnik_> ah
Aug 30 12:59:17 <ssvb> eijk: yes
Aug 30 12:59:54 <eijk> ssvb: I just wanted to follow up on the memory corruption issue: It's currently completely gone for me!
Aug 30 13:00:20 <eijk> ssvb: I don't know how I should reproduce it now. So I am absolutely puzzled, what was causing it...
Aug 30 13:00:45 <eijk> ssvb: I had been on a bike trip with it, maybe it was humidity?
Aug 30 13:01:26 <eijk> ssvb: That could maybe reduce isolation between circuits of the WLAN and the memory controller or something like that?
Aug 30 13:05:42 <ssvb> eijk: when I investigated this issue, it really could disappear suddenly and show up again with no visible reason
Aug 30 13:06:35 <eijk> ssvb: Hmm... you were in favour of a software reason, but doesn't this rather sound like hardware problems?
Aug 30 13:07:08 <ssvb> eijk: by the way, do you have a stable wlan connection? my wireless router is behind two concrete walls, so signal quality is not the best
Aug 30 13:08:10 <eijk> eijk: Yes, the wlan connection is pretty solid: The router is only two meters away in the same room. (It crashes from time to time, though...)
Aug 30 13:08:26 <eijk> Sorry, I meant ssvb, of course...
Aug 30 13:08:35 <eijk> Stupid, talking to myself...
Aug 30 13:09:14 <ssvb> eijk: memtester reports addresses of memory which it considers bad, the point is that the offset of this bad address within 1K memory block was a constant value for one firmware revision, but a different constant value for another firmware
Aug 30 13:09:49 <eijk> ssvb: Hmm, for me it was never constant, if I remember correctly...
Aug 30 13:10:11 <ssvb> eijk: for hardware fault I would expect either completely random addresses or a constant address not depending on firmware revision
Aug 30 13:10:35 <eijk> ssvb: Also, the problems already started with the "stuck memory address" test. So the other tests are not very reliable according to the documentation...
Aug 30 13:10:47 <ssvb> eijk: so this is what makes me think that it is a software problem
Aug 30 13:11:40 <eijk> ssvb: Hmm... The other thing is, that I am not sure, a user land application really sees true hardware adresses...
Aug 30 13:24:30 <ssvb> eijk: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2006-September/005607.html
Aug 30 13:25:09 <ssvb> eijk: I modified memtester a bit to use mmap (so it allocates memory blocks at physical page boundaries)
Aug 30 13:26:34 <ssvb> eijk: this 'a5' offset at the end of 'faulty' address changed to some other value for a different firmware version
Aug 30 13:34:01 <ssvb> eijk: I can try to find my patch for memtester which was used for tests is you are interested (the links from the mailing list are not valid anymore)
Aug 30 13:34:36 <ssvb> eijk: s/is/if
Aug 30 13:42:02 <ssvb> eijk: so I suppose there might be something like 'use after free problem' in wifi driver: it could probably allocate some block of memory, free it, but continue to use it, overwriting the memory which could have been allocated to some other program already
Aug 30 13:42:38 <ssvb> eijk: but that's only a speculation
Aug 30 13:44:39 <ssvb> eijk: how large was the memory block that you used for testing?
Aug 30 13:48:04 <eijk> ssvb: I tried different sizes, 4, 8, 16, 24
Aug 30 13:48:43 <eijk> ssvb: But if the problem occured didn't really depend on the size. When I had problems, I already had them with "4".
Aug 30 13:51:00 <eijk> ssvb: did you already see the problems at the "stuck address" test?
Aug 30 13:51:22 <ssvb> eijk: the problem occured when you were 'lucky' enough to get a problematic memory page allocated as part of your memory block
Aug 30 13:52:21 <ssvb> eijk: with a larger memory block, the chance of catching it should be higher, 24MB is only ~1/3 of all the memory available on the device
Aug 30 13:52:55 <eijk> ssvb: Ok, sounds like a little different problem to me... For me, if it happened, it more or less happened all the time...
Aug 30 13:52:58 <ssvb> eijk: repeateable runs of the test program are likely to get the same memory allocated
Aug 30 13:53:57 <eijk> ssvb: well, in a way i had a similar impression: when using only 4 MB, I sometimes had to start a second time in order to induce problems...
Aug 30 13:54:19 <eijk> ssvb: with 24, it failed everytime
Aug 30 13:56:19 <ssvb> eijk: what sounds different? once you catch the problem, repeatable runs of memtester always confirm it
Aug 30 13:58:52 <ssvb> eijk: similarly if memtester run was 'successful', you are likely to get the same 'successful' result if you try to run memtester several more times in a row
Aug 30 14:04:00 <simon_perreault> hi, I'm having trouble installing Maemo
Aug 30 14:04:14 <simon_perreault> [simon@ringo scratchbox]$ ./loginERROR: Scratchbox is not properly set up!
Aug 30 14:04:48 <simon_perreault> can anyone help me?
Aug 30 14:05:42 <cosmo> hm, interesting: http://patrickbaudisch.com/projects/lucidtouch/index.html
Aug 30 14:06:03 <cosmo> that might work well on maemo devices
Aug 30 14:06:25 <pupnik_> hi simon_perreault offhand i don't know what that error means
Aug 30 14:06:25 <lardman> how do they sense the position?
Aug 30 14:06:37 <simon_perreault> pupnik_: mmm
Aug 30 14:06:46 <cosmo> webcam currently, see the video
Aug 30 14:07:07 <lardman> cosmo: Ah, okay
Aug 30 14:08:23 <lardman> flat buffers done, time to make them circular then try compiling!#
Aug 30 14:08:36 <simon_perreault> i'll just reinstall from scratch
Aug 30 14:09:42 <pupnik_> simon_perreault: that's what i'd do - i used a debian host and scratchbox .deb packages
Aug 30 14:10:53 <simon_perreault> i'm on fedora at the moment. if it still doesn't work i'll install ubuntu in a vmware
Aug 30 14:11:21 <pupnik_> there are also preinstalled vmware images containing a system with scratchbox
Aug 30 14:11:27 <simon_perreault> oh cool
Aug 30 14:11:27 <eijk> ssvb: well, I didn't have to try very hard to hit a bad block with 4 MB, so I am not sure if it's really about some localised bad blocks. I rather had the feeling that something interferes with data transfer.
Aug 30 14:11:32 <simon_perreault> pupnik_: where?
Aug 30 14:11:51 <pupnik_> vmware?
Aug 30 14:12:25 <simon_perreault> ok, thanks
Aug 30 14:12:39 <pupnik_> _Monkey: vmware is a Maemo Development appliance for Maemo - http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/702
Aug 30 14:12:40 <_Monkey> OK, pupnik_.
Aug 30 14:12:46 <pupnik_> blah
Aug 30 14:24:03 <ssvb> eijk: probably it is a good idea to develop some specialized test program which would try to investigate the issue, for example what region of memory gets corrupted? is it a single byte/word or a large block? This information might help when checking wifi driver sources (their open part)
Aug 30 14:41:01 <eijk> ssvb: definitely
Aug 30 14:42:27 <eijk> ssvb: maybe one could also write a program which just allocates a block and then use a debugger to create a hardware breakpoint for any write accesses to that block. Don't know if that's possible on a 770.
Aug 30 14:43:31 <eijk> ssvb: then one could really distinguish, if there are real writes involved, or if the underlying hardware corrupts things.
Aug 30 16:10:37 <lardman> bye chaps
Aug 30 17:02:52 <GMort> Is there a way to enlarge the text size in Xchat on the N800?
Aug 30 17:03:58 <mgedmin> isn't there a preferences dialog where you could do that?
Aug 30 17:05:36 <GMort> I will look for that thanks.  The usual buttons dont's work.
Aug 30 17:09:29 <GMort> Thanks mgedmin.  Found it.
Aug 30 17:13:04 <CardinalFang> How can I debug the booting process?  My 770 with OS2007h-e just started up from being off, and seemed to boot three separate times.  Black screen -> white -> "Nokia" -> progress bar -> hands -> half-painted UI.  Repeat twice.  Finally finish painting UI and ready to use.
Aug 30 17:14:55 <mgedmin> CardinalFang: try http://maemo.org/community/wiki/reportingrebootissues/
Aug 30 17:16:28 <CardinalFang> mgedmin, Ooo, thank you.
Aug 30 17:24:15 <CardinalFang> Ah, the OOM-killer.
Aug 30 17:24:25 <mgedmin> OOM?
Aug 30 17:24:26 <_Monkey> OOM is out-of-memory (I think, again)
Aug 30 17:24:37 <mgedmin> how did you deduce that?
Aug 30 17:24:57 <mgedmin> I don't think you can see that in /proc/bootreason or the lifeguard logs
Aug 30 17:25:11 <CardinalFang> It's in the dmesg.  For this particular boot, it didn't kill something that was essential.  :(
Aug 30 17:25:18 <mgedmin> ah
Aug 30 17:25:18 <mgedmin> ouch
Aug 30 17:25:44 <mgedmin> I wonder if a swap partition would help
Aug 30 17:26:28 <CardinalFang> I have one.  In fact, I went out of my way to make it double the size the UI sets up:  128MiB.
Aug 30 17:37:15 <mgedmin> so it's not brought up early enough
Aug 30 17:51:09 * CardinalFang updates the reportingrebootissues page.
Aug 30 17:55:14 <CardinalFang> mgedmin, Hmm, maybe it's not.  The dmesg lists swap activation at time 293 and OOM reaping at time 488.  The order is good, but that doesn't mean the swap is ready in time, yes?
Aug 30 17:55:24 <mgedmin> hmm
Aug 30 17:55:34 <mgedmin> it should be, I think
Aug 30 17:56:02 <mgedmin> what process did it kill?
Aug 30 17:56:26 <CardinalFang> I don't know what time units those are.  Are jiffies centiseconds on here?
Aug 30 17:56:54 <CardinalFang> mgedmin, It killed metalayer-crawl this time.
Aug 30 17:58:39 <mgedmin> I don't know about those time units; dmesg on my desktop seems to use seconds (with microsecond precision)
Aug 30 17:59:12 <mgedmin> do you have many mp3 files on a mmc card?
Aug 30 17:59:54 <mgedmin> I wonder if there's a leak in metalayer-crawler, or if it just needs more ram than you have
Aug 30 17:59:54 <CardinalFang> No, maybe a dozen, with another two dozen Ogg/Vorbis (that I currently can't play).
Aug 30 18:00:20 <CardinalFang> I have a dozen e-books also.
Aug 30 18:00:55 <mgedmin> metalayer-crawler only indexes multimedia files (music and videos), so e-books are irrelevant
Aug 30 18:01:03 <CardinalFang> Could be, could be.
Aug 30 18:01:16 <mgedmin> on the other hand, it crawls over your whole filesystem, so if you have many files & directories it may have some impact
Aug 30 18:02:19 <CardinalFang> But, it open()s or mmap()s the files to look for magic numbers, or looks at the filename.  Thorough/big vs lossy/small.
Aug 30 18:04:17 <CardinalFang> mgedmin, I don't know where the problem is, so I hesitate to blame metalayer-crawler this early.  I'd like to see what's going on.
Aug 30 18:04:38 <CardinalFang> Maybe I can use ulimit to keep it in line.  :)
Aug 30 18:06:45 <CardinalFang> mgedmin, On the off chance that you're interested in the dmesg:  http://pastebin.com/m6ed4510c
Aug 30 18:11:48 <mgedmin> interesting
Aug 30 18:13:20 <mgedmin> it had 1.5 megs of free ram plus 130 megs of free swap, but failed an order-0 allocation (which afaiu means a single 4kb page)
Aug 30 18:13:24 <mgedmin> I wonder what gfp_mask=0x200d2 means
Aug 30 18:13:40 <mgedmin> my linux knowledge is insufficient here
Aug 30 18:20:27 <CardinalFang> Maybe I'll slurp down the source later and find out.
Aug 30 19:10:51 <xlence> bonsoir, j'aimerai connaitre le mot de passe du compte root
Aug 30 19:19:42 <Bigup> hum... xlence did not notice it was an english speaking forum
Aug 30 19:19:58 <Bigup> he wanted to know maemo's root password
Aug 30 19:24:30 <||cw> well, it's well documented that there isn't one
Aug 30 19:24:44 <||cw> r is it rootme?
Aug 30 19:24:56 <||cw> damned, i forget.  it's documented anyway
Aug 30 19:42:03 <Bigup> ||cw: i was just translating
Aug 30 19:42:06 <Bigup> good evening !
Aug 30 19:42:09 <Bigup> i leave
Aug 30 20:02:16 <CardinalFang> Is there a hook into emitting an information message to the user, like "connected to %s" displays for new Wifi connections?
Aug 30 20:02:29 * CardinalFang wants "xmessage 'Text here!'"
Aug 30 20:03:02 <zakx> you can implent that easily in python
Aug 30 20:03:51 <CardinalFang> You don't happen to know the name of the widget/window offhand, do you?
Aug 30 20:04:49 <zakx> http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/python_maemo_3.x_howto.html
Aug 30 20:05:05 <zakx> look for "Receiver sample application"
Aug 30 20:05:21 <zakx> err, Sender
Aug 30 20:06:13 <CardinalFang> Ah, osso.SystemNote.  Grassy.
Aug 30 20:52:57 <trevarthan> Howdy folks.
Aug 30 20:53:28 <celesteh_rules> hi
Aug 30 20:53:28 <_Monkey> niihau, celesteh_rules
Aug 30 21:14:09 <NeoStrider> hey fellows
Aug 30 21:14:32 <NeoStrider> hey folks
Aug 30 21:14:53 <celesteh_rules> howdy
Aug 30 21:14:54 <_Monkey> niihau, celesteh_rules
Aug 30 21:15:02 <celesteh_rules> stupid monkey
Aug 30 21:15:34 <NeoStrider> hahahah
Aug 30 21:15:51 <NeoStrider> maybe you guys can help me into something:
Aug 30 21:16:19 <DaniloCesar> Hi Neo!
Aug 30 21:16:32 <NeoStrider> when running my app from the icon, it dies after some seconds...but when running from xterminal or "run command" from system-load applet, it runs perfectly
Aug 30 21:16:39 <NeoStrider> hey DaniloCesar
Aug 30 21:17:07 <NeoStrider> you guys know something about DBus and SDL apps not getting along with each other?
Aug 30 21:17:48 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, Can U redirect the error message to a file and see what is happening?
Aug 30 21:18:16 <NeoStrider> hardly...
Aug 30 21:18:38 <NeoStrider>  I would modify the whole game engine to do that...
Aug 30 21:20:15 <celesteh_rules> sounds like an environment issue
Aug 30 21:20:53 <celesteh_rules> i would suspect that there's a path set someplace in xterm or in the app runner that's not set when you click on the icon
Aug 30 21:21:06 <celesteh_rules> a library or something is probably failing to load
Aug 30 21:21:10 <DaniloCesar> just put on your .desktop file, exec=/locate/of/your/app 2> /tmp/err.log
Aug 30 21:22:37 <NeoStrider> good!!!
Aug 30 21:22:40 <DaniloCesar> probably
Aug 30 21:22:59 <NeoStrider> thats my #1 suspect
Aug 30 21:23:09 <DaniloCesar> =)
Aug 30 21:23:19 <DaniloCesar> C?
Aug 30 21:23:21 <NeoStrider> (anyway, my game uses only absolute paths)
Aug 30 21:24:08 <NeoStrider> what?
Aug 30 21:25:06 <celesteh_rules> you're doing dynamic linking, no?  then libraries don't necessarily have absolute paths
Aug 30 21:25:07 <DaniloCesar> Angstron?
Aug 30 21:25:08 <_Monkey> Angstron is http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 30 21:27:35 <NeoStrider> celesteh_rules:  but the game runs for some seconds...if Im good enough, I can even pass the first level
Aug 30 21:28:56 <celesteh_rules> um, weird
Aug 30 21:29:14 <DaniloCesar> Hummmm
Aug 30 21:29:18 <DaniloCesar> Do you use gstreammer?
Aug 30 21:29:32 <NeoStrider> looks like some stack or buffer difference
Aug 30 21:29:41 <NeoStrider> me , not directly...but maybe SDL does
Aug 30 21:29:46 <celesteh_rules> it's a time thing?  Like, it doesn't matter what you do, it just quits after a short time?
Aug 30 21:30:55 <NeoStrider> not really
Aug 30 21:30:57 <DaniloCesar> I read something about a bug in gstreammer pipeline today.... Maybe is it...
Aug 30 21:31:04 <NeoStrider> sometimes is more time, sometimes ,less
Aug 30 21:31:20 <NeoStrider> I will try measuring the time
Aug 30 21:31:22 <celesteh_rules> ok, but it doesn't matter what you're doing?
Aug 30 21:31:46 <NeoStrider> humm...the game has a fixed flux
Aug 30 21:32:01 <NeoStrider> you go through some screens and then into the 3D world
Aug 30 21:32:07 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, Did you get the error message using the "2>" approach?
Aug 30 21:32:14 <NeoStrider> sometimes it halts on the 3D part, sometimes on the loading screens
Aug 30 21:32:14 <celesteh_rules> so there's not a state in game-play that's horked. so it could be a race condition, perhaps
Aug 30 21:32:25 <NeoStrider> couting
Aug 30 21:32:30 <NeoStrider> yeah
Aug 30 21:32:51 <celesteh_rules> the error message will shed light, hopefully
Aug 30 21:32:59 <NeoStrider> 24 seconds on the first try...
Aug 30 21:33:09 <NeoStrider> I havent installed the new version with the > yet...
Aug 30 21:33:33 <DaniloCesar> just change your .desktop file....
Aug 30 21:33:44 <NeoStrider> i cant
Aug 30 21:33:47 <DaniloCesar> why?
Aug 30 21:33:51 <celesteh_rules> man, that's perplexing
Aug 30 21:33:52 <NeoStrider> permissions
Aug 30 21:34:02 <DaniloCesar> sudo gainroot?
Aug 30 21:34:02 <NeoStrider> ok
Aug 30 21:34:15 <NeoStrider> now Im going to try the new package with the >
Aug 30 21:34:33 <DaniloCesar> hummm... ok
Aug 30 21:34:54 <NeoStrider> sudo gainroot doesnt work
Aug 30 21:35:28 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, hummm
Aug 30 21:35:29 <NeoStrider> testing
Aug 30 21:35:41 <NeoStrider> halted even before I could play!
Aug 30 21:35:55 <NeoStrider> the device freez'd
Aug 30 21:35:55 <celesteh_rules> are you on the latest OS version?
Aug 30 21:36:09 <NeoStrider> yes
Aug 30 21:36:12 <NeoStrider> gregale
Aug 30 21:36:12 <_Monkey> it has been said that gregale is something else entirely
Aug 30 21:36:16 <DaniloCesar> but now you got a message
Aug 30 21:36:30 <NeoStrider> the device killed the process
Aug 30 21:37:03 <NeoStrider> but no log!
Aug 30 21:37:25 * DaniloCesar wtf 
Aug 30 21:37:52 <DaniloCesar> it's very strange
Aug 30 21:39:41 <DaniloCesar> try 1>> /mmc1/log.txt  2>> /mmc1/log.txt
Aug 30 21:40:10 <NeoStrider> my system is misbehaving
Aug 30 21:40:13 <NeoStrider> going to reboot
Aug 30 21:40:48 <NeoStrider> 1>> /media/mmc1/log.txt 2>> /media/mmc1/log.txt?
Aug 30 21:41:24 <DaniloCesar> you need to get some message... linux not use to kill applications without a error message....
Aug 30 21:41:42 <DaniloCesar> or maybe with strace command.....
Aug 30 21:41:50 <NeoStrider> yeah...im reading a book about the kernel ;-)
Aug 30 21:42:14 <DaniloCesar> but I don't know if maemo have this command
Aug 30 21:42:24 <NeoStrider> let me check if it works without the >
Aug 30 21:43:15 <DaniloCesar> Yes... Try to redirect 1>> (stdout) and 2>> (stderr)
Aug 30 21:43:25 <DaniloCesar> to different files
Aug 30 21:43:31 * celesteh_rules trying to think what's the different between the prompt and clicking the icon
Aug 30 21:44:44 <celesteh_rules> if it really works from the prompt, then, um, the most likely culprit is either environment or error catching, maybe?
Aug 30 21:44:47 <NeoStrider> clicking the icon: maemo-af-desktop opens the .desktop file (.inactive on the package)
Aug 30 21:44:50 <DaniloCesar> the only thing that I can remember is the LD_PRELOAD
Aug 30 21:45:15 <NeoStrider> then, it finds out the .service file and gives it to dbus1, right?
Aug 30 21:45:26 <NeoStrider> and dbus1 realises it needs to run the app
Aug 30 21:45:40 <celesteh_rules> it's a timing thing, so it's having trouble recovering from something like a race condition.  maybe the OS asks it for something and it doesn't know where to find it?
Aug 30 21:46:18 <NeoStrider> what could it be?
Aug 30 21:46:34 <NeoStrider> my app is very cpu hungry
Aug 30 21:46:38 <NeoStrider> around 70%
Aug 30 21:46:42 <NeoStrider> (3D game ;-))
Aug 30 21:47:02 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, Angstrong or another game?
Aug 30 21:47:33 <NeoStrider> angstron
Aug 30 21:47:34 <_Monkey> hmmm... angstron is http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 30 21:47:49 <NeoStrider> shut ut, _Monkey
Aug 30 21:47:50 <_Monkey> NeoStrider: sorry...
Aug 30 21:48:00 <NeoStrider> hahah...
Aug 30 21:48:02 <NeoStrider> love this monkey
Aug 30 21:48:38 <DaniloCesar> UHAHUHUAHUAHUUHAUH
Aug 30 21:49:48 <NeoStrider> strange...if there is a opened xterminal, it dies too
Aug 30 21:50:21 <celesteh_rules> ok, my guess is that it's clobbering shared memory
Aug 30 21:50:44 <NeoStrider> but why it doesnt do sh*t when called from xterminal?
Aug 30 21:51:50 <celesteh_rules> um. no idea.
Aug 30 21:52:05 <NeoStrider> ok...trying again the > thing
Aug 30 21:52:17 <NeoStrider> maybe the memory is cleaner than before
Aug 30 21:52:46 <celesteh_rules> well, i could speculate in that manner, but it would just be speculation.  maybe it doesn't matter if you clobber xterm's memory or something
Aug 30 21:53:11 <celesteh_rules> but it really sounds like a race condition, given that it stops at unpredictable times NOT based on what you're doing
Aug 30 21:53:45 <celesteh_rules> some shared resource
Aug 30 21:54:19 <celesteh_rules> could also be related to audio or video, of those happen on the interrupt level.
Aug 30 21:54:41 <NeoStrider> but im only using plain SDL
Aug 30 21:54:49 <celesteh_rules> last guess is that it adds overhead to launch from an icon which causes it to run out of memory faster OR makes it slower responding to interrupts
Aug 30 21:55:07 <celesteh_rules> what is SDL?
Aug 30 21:55:13 <NeoStrider> again, no log
Aug 30 21:55:26 <celesteh_rules> or, it could be gremlins
Aug 30 21:55:34 <DaniloCesar> Simple Direct Layer
Aug 30 21:55:46 <NeoStrider> _Monkey:  SDL is Simple DirectMedia Layer http://www.libsdl.org
Aug 30 21:55:46 <_Monkey> OK, NeoStrider.
Aug 30 21:56:02 <NeoStrider> SDL?
Aug 30 21:56:03 <_Monkey> SDL is Simple DirectMedia Layer http://www.libsdl.org
Aug 30 21:56:48 <celesteh_rules> nice
Aug 30 21:57:02 <NeoStrider> good
Aug 30 21:57:45 <celesteh_rules> is there a maemo debugger?
Aug 30 21:57:45 <NeoStrider> the same thing DOOM uses
Aug 30 21:58:03 <NeoStrider> only raemo
Aug 30 21:58:12 <NeoStrider> but I dont have internet connectivity
Aug 30 21:59:01 <NeoStrider> hey
Aug 30 21:59:02 <DaniloCesar> is raemo bood?
Aug 30 21:59:06 <NeoStrider> got a idea
Aug 30 21:59:10 <NeoStrider> scratchbox
Aug 30 21:59:10 <_Monkey> somebody said scratchbox was like the glue that ties it all together
Aug 30 21:59:18 <NeoStrider> let me test under SDK_PC
Aug 30 21:59:29 <celesteh_rules> heh, i just assumed you were in scratchbox . . .
Aug 30 22:00:01 <NeoStrider> I was testing on the device
Aug 30 22:00:24 <NeoStrider> i just use sbox for building the binary
Aug 30 22:00:32 <NeoStrider> I even build the package manually
Aug 30 22:01:07 <celesteh_rules> that's cool.  alas, i am sboxless since i use OS X
Aug 30 22:02:42 <DaniloCesar> SB doesn't works ok with Ubuntu64bit....
Aug 30 22:02:59 <NeoStrider> ubuntu 32bit \o
Aug 30 22:04:15 <DaniloCesar> So I need to emulate a VirtualMachine of a INdT's Ubuntu32bit to run SB....
Aug 30 22:04:34 <DaniloCesar> By the way, VirtualBox is very good to do this job! =)
Aug 30 22:05:05 <celesteh_rules> does virtualbox work on OS X?
Aug 30 22:05:51 <celesteh_rules> hm, intel only, fair enough
Aug 30 22:07:00 <NeoStrider> that VMWare image?
Aug 30 22:07:31 <celesteh_rules> hahaha, i can only access my intel mac through VNC.  There's something funny about doing remote virtual.  i need something separating me even further.  ;)
Aug 30 22:07:58 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, what?
Aug 30 22:08:05 <NeoStrider> thats why I love my ia32 ubuntu...simples are very simple
Aug 30 22:09:36 <NeoStrider> forget =-)
Aug 30 22:09:39 <NeoStrider> as vezes me embolo
Aug 30 22:09:57 <DaniloCesar> Lol =)
Aug 30 22:10:01 <DaniloCesar> Me too
Aug 30 22:11:07 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, You said that you use raemo, right?  Is it good? Is it helpful?
Aug 30 22:12:06 <NeoStrider> no no
Aug 30 22:12:09 <NeoStrider> I dont
Aug 30 22:12:16 <NeoStrider> I dont have internet connectivity on the device
Aug 30 22:12:35 <NeoStrider> but it looks good
Aug 30 22:13:10 <celesteh_rules> i have virtualbox (yay!) where do i find a VM of scratchbox?
Aug 30 22:13:16 <DaniloCesar> yes.... But I was thinking.. I dev my apps direct on device with sshfs.... And I think that is the same result..
Aug 30 22:13:23 <DaniloCesar> celesteh_rules, wait...
Aug 30 22:13:53 <NeoStrider> yeah... I guess
Aug 30 22:14:17 <DaniloCesar> celesteh_rules, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemovmware/
Aug 30 22:14:40 <celesteh_rules> awesome
Aug 30 22:16:04 <DaniloCesar> celesteh_rules, I will recommend you somethings... Install vbox-addons in your guest machine, and mount (editing your /etc/fstab) your folders on your VM...
Aug 30 22:17:52 <celesteh_rules> thanks for the tips
Aug 30 22:18:02 <celesteh_rules> it's late in my time zone
Aug 30 22:18:18 <celesteh_rules> and i must go to sleep or fall asleep with my face on the keyboard
Aug 30 22:18:25 <DaniloCesar> lol...
Aug 30 22:18:35 <celesteh_rules> goodnight!
Aug 30 22:18:40 <NeoStrider> ok
Aug 30 22:18:46 <NeoStrider> happened on the sbox too!
Aug 30 22:19:14 <DaniloCesar> NeoStrider, The same error happens on SB?
Aug 30 22:19:20 <NeoStrider> DaniloCesar:  yes
Aug 30 22:27:21 * pupnik ponders
Aug 30 22:28:01 * NeoStrider going out to dinner
Aug 30 22:29:09 <pupnik> bon appetit
Aug 30 22:47:28 <NeoStrider> angstron?
Aug 30 22:47:29 <_Monkey> angstron is http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 30 23:10:36 <erstazi> hello anderson_s
Aug 30 23:10:40 <erstazi> hello Andy80
Aug 30 23:10:47 <Andy80> hi
Aug 30 23:10:48 <_Monkey> que tal, Andy80
Aug 30 23:10:50 <NeoStrider> hello erstazi
Aug 30 23:10:54 <erstazi> hello NeoStrider
Aug 30 23:10:54 <NeoStrider> hello Andy80
Aug 30 23:10:58 <NeoStrider> hello anderson_s
Aug 30 23:11:26 <erstazi> NeoStrider: how have things been going?
Aug 30 23:11:50 <NeoStrider> erstazi: trying to make AngsTRON stabler..specially on N800
Aug 30 23:12:31 <erstazi> NeoStrider: I am not familiar with AngsTRON, is it a game?
Aug 30 23:12:42 <NeoStrider> yes
Aug 30 23:12:44 <NeoStrider> angstron?
Aug 30 23:12:45 <_Monkey> angstron is http://angstron.garage.maemo.org/
Aug 30 23:14:37 <erstazi> NeoStrider: looking (:
Aug 30 23:16:34 <erstazi> NeoStrider: sehr gut
Aug 30 23:16:52 <NeoStrider> danke!
Aug 30 23:17:05 <NeoStrider> I do my best
Aug 30 23:17:09 <NeoStrider> but its not that fast yet
Aug 30 23:18:00 <erstazi> NeoStrider: will this work on OS2006?
Aug 30 23:18:41 <NeoStrider> sure...thats my main target
Aug 30 23:18:53 <NeoStrider> indeed im having some issues with OS2007
Aug 30 23:20:54 <erstazi> NeoStrider: ah
Aug 30 23:20:56 <erstazi> will try it
Aug 30 23:21:13 <NeoStrider> good
Aug 30 23:21:19 <NeoStrider> try it from the xterminal
Aug 30 23:21:27 <NeoStrider> running from the icon is quite unstable
Aug 30 23:21:56 <erstazi> NeoStrider: ok
Aug 30 23:24:11 <erstazi> I love to scp all day
Aug 30 23:24:32 <NeoStrider> scp?
Aug 30 23:25:11 <erstazi> yeah
Aug 30 23:25:24 <erstazi> secure copy, part of ssh
Aug 30 23:25:40 <NeoStrider> _Monkey: scp is secure copy, part of ssh
Aug 30 23:25:41 <_Monkey> OK, NeoStrider.
Aug 30 23:25:47 <erstazi> NeoStrider: one question
Aug 30 23:26:00 <NeoStrider> yup
Aug 30 23:26:09 <erstazi> NeoStrider: how is it that the deb package is 2mb and the install is only 0.3mb?
Aug 30 23:26:25 <NeoStrider> data files
Aug 30 23:26:37 <NeoStrider> the binary is only 0.3, but the data files are ~2mb
Aug 30 23:26:41 <NeoStrider> but this deb is hacked
Aug 30 23:26:52 <NeoStrider> I added the data files after creating the .deb
Aug 30 23:27:15 <NeoStrider> so the declared size must be 0.3 and the checksum must be set acordingly
Aug 30 23:29:10 <sbz> _Monkey: ruby-hildon?
Aug 30 23:29:10 <_Monkey> bugger all, i dunno, sbz
Aug 30 23:29:13 <sbz> hi, every body can learn to _Monkey ?
Aug 30 23:30:11 <NeoStrider> yes
Aug 30 23:30:24 <NeoStrider> _Monkey: ruby-hildon is not rubbish
Aug 30 23:30:25 <_Monkey> OK, NeoStrider.
Aug 30 23:30:33 <NeoStrider> ruby-hildon?
Aug 30 23:30:34 <_Monkey> i think ruby-hildon is not rubbish
Aug 30 23:31:17 <sbz> _Monkey: ruby-hildon is port of hildon bindings in ruby language is also http://alterego.freeshell.org/projects/ruby-maemo/
Aug 30 23:31:17 <_Monkey> ...but ruby-hildon is not rubbish...
Aug 30 23:32:07 <NeoStrider> _Monkey: forget ruby-hildon
Aug 30 23:32:08 <_Monkey> NeoStrider: I forgot ruby-hildon
Aug 30 23:32:09 <pupnik> sbz - tell it to forget ruby-hildon, then reset the hint
Aug 30 23:32:12 <NeoStrider> try again
Aug 30 23:33:19 <NeoStrider> anyone knows a good source of information about programming with unix pipes?
Aug 30 23:33:43 <NeoStrider> from a C/C++ app
Aug 30 23:34:51 <sbz> NeoStrider: sure, beej guide is the best for that http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~beej/guide/ipc/
Aug 30 23:35:09 <NeoStrider> beej's guide to networking rocks!
Aug 30 23:35:24 <sbz> ipc too :)
Aug 30 23:35:38 <erstazi> _Monkey: forget scp
Aug 30 23:35:38 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot scp
Aug 30 23:35:42 <erstazi> _Monkey: forget SCP
Aug 30 23:35:42 <_Monkey> erstazi, I didn't have anything matching scp
Aug 30 23:35:46 <erstazi> SCP is a means of securely transferring computer files between a local and a remote host or between two remote hosts, using the Secure Shell (SSH) protocol. SCP means Secure Copy (See openssh)
Aug 30 23:36:07 <NeoStrider> try saying
Aug 30 23:36:19 <NeoStrider> _Monkey:  SCP is a means of securely transferring computer files between a local and a remote host or between two remote hosts, using the Secure Shell (SSH) protocol. SCP means Secure Copy (See openssh)
Aug 30 23:36:20 <_Monkey> OK, NeoStrider.
Aug 30 23:36:23 <sbz> it come from BSD project called openssh  :)
Aug 30 23:36:24 <NeoStrider> scp?
Aug 30 23:36:25 <_Monkey> scp is a means of securely transferring computer files between a local and a remote host or between two remote hosts, using the Secure Shell (SSH) protocol. SCP means Secure Copy (See openssh)
Aug 30 23:36:57 <NeoStrider> Im a _Monkey übber master! muahahahahahah!
Aug 30 23:37:03 <sbz> _Monkey: ruby-hildon is port of hildon bindings in ruby language is also http://alterego.freeshell.org/projects/ruby-maemo/
Aug 30 23:37:04 <_Monkey> OK, sbz.
Aug 30 23:38:33 <sbz> _Monkey really looks like to bot "purl", is it perlish ?
Aug 30 23:38:33 <_Monkey> i haven't a clue, sbz
Aug 30 23:42:33 <erstazi> sbz: I believe so
Aug 30 23:44:13 <pupnik> hm was just going to ask Neo something
Aug 30 23:44:35 <erstazi> pupnik: quicker than rice
Aug 30 23:45:25 <pupnik> been playing with gltron and mesa lately - pretty well done tronlike game in 3d
Aug 30 23:45:26 <erstazi> sbz: scp is similar to the BSD rcp protocol
Aug 30 23:45:57 <erstazi> rcp does not encrypt, but technically neither does scp, scp just uses ssh for that
Aug 30 23:46:20 <erstazi> hi setite
Aug 30 23:46:31 <pupnik> is there rcp for maemo?
Aug 30 23:59:09 <NeoStrider> im back
Aug 30 23:59:33 <NeoStrider> erstazi: did you tried my game already?
Aug 31 00:01:56 <erstazi> NeoStrider: not yet
Aug 31 00:03:14 <erstazi> NeoStrider: loaded it
Aug 31 00:03:19 <erstazi> btw, wb NeoStrider
Aug 31 00:03:25 <NeoStrider> wb?
Aug 31 00:04:21 <erstazi> Welcome Back
Aug 31 00:04:37 <NeoStrider> ahh
Aug 31 00:04:37 <NeoStrider> thx
Aug 31 00:06:51 <erstazi> NeoStrider: nice! I have planned something like this years ago
Aug 31 00:06:58 <erstazi> I have no clue what the name is called
Aug 31 00:07:22 <NeoStrider> the game?
Aug 31 00:07:23 <_Monkey> the game is, like, very funny
Aug 31 00:07:31 <erstazi> _Monkey: forget the game
Aug 31 00:07:31 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot game
Aug 31 00:07:35 <erstazi> NeoStrider: yes
Aug 31 00:07:46 <erstazi> s/planned/played/
Aug 31 00:07:52 <pupnik> NeoStrider: you know gltron and armagetronad ?
Aug 31 00:08:30 <NeoStrider> sure!
Aug 31 00:08:36 <NeoStrider> they were the inspiration!
Aug 31 00:09:02 <pupnik> Ok.. just checking
Aug 31 00:09:08 <NeoStrider> take a look:
Aug 31 00:09:09 <NeoStrider> http://corporatedrones.wordpress.com/2007/04/05/angstron-your-favorite-tron-game-for-maemo-or-the-first-game-using-bzk/
Aug 31 00:09:09 <erstazi> pupnik: ah thats it!
Aug 31 00:09:14 <MCCob> hello,
Aug 31 00:09:15 <_Monkey> hello, is probably there any flash player yet for IT2006/2007 (ARM arch)?
Aug 31 00:09:23 <erstazi> hello MCCob
Aug 31 00:09:24 <NeoStrider> angstron came from a challenge from toughtfix
Aug 31 00:09:29 <NeoStrider> hello MCCob
Aug 31 00:09:33 <MCCob> Anyone have a valid repository or dev file for tapioca ?
Aug 31 00:09:33 <erstazi> _Monkey: forget hello,
Aug 31 00:09:33 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot hello,
Aug 31 00:09:42 <MCCob> *deb file
Aug 31 00:10:05 <pupnik> http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
Aug 31 00:10:15 <pupnik> MCCob: you can search there
Aug 31 00:10:23 <MCCob> 0 Repos for N770 ;)
Aug 31 00:21:28 <trevarthan> hey, does anyone here have a working hildon desktop example?
Aug 31 00:22:07 <trevarthan> hildon desktop is a way to make desktop applets using python. i.e. http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2007/03/22/writing-a-hello-world-python-plugin-for-hildon-desktop/
Aug 31 00:27:45 <setite> anyoen use vnc successfully?
Aug 31 00:27:59 <setite> i think perhaps its having trouble due to my resolution
Aug 31 00:28:13 <setite> because it tkaes like 5 mins to load one capture then disconnects
Aug 31 00:29:08 <MCCob> yesss
Aug 31 00:29:18 <MCCob> I use VNC with no problem
Aug 31 00:29:23 <setite> speaking of repos
Aug 31 00:29:31 <setite> anyone wanna share their working sources.list
Aug 31 00:29:39 <MCCob> and throught SSH tunnel sometimes
Aug 31 00:29:52 <MCCob> yeah
Aug 31 00:29:53 <setite> mine keeps giving me those damned errors even after disabling almost everything
Aug 31 00:30:01 <MCCob> for with Maemo ?
Aug 31 00:30:01 <setite> ssh tunnel... thats cli?
Aug 31 00:30:20 <setite> well i want as many repos as possible... but weeding out the errors is hard
Aug 31 00:30:51 <MCCob> SSH tunnel is a tunnnel thought SSH connection to a routeur or any other Linux/unix
Aug 31 00:30:59 <MCCob> Nokia 770 or 800 ?
Aug 31 00:31:40 <MCCob> source.list is for N 770 or 800 ?
Aug 31 00:32:00 <setite> 800
Aug 31 00:32:15 <MCCob> ok, I have 770...
Aug 31 00:32:22 <setite> yea i saw that
Aug 31 00:32:39 <setite> is there a good file manager
Aug 31 00:32:49 <setite> or a hack to make the current one show the /etc and all that fun shit
Aug 31 00:33:31 <florian> setite: There is a port of gpe-filemanager, that will show /etc :-)
Aug 31 00:33:36 <MCCob> maybe GPE Filemanager
Aug 31 00:33:38 <MCCob> :)
Aug 31 00:33:48 <MCCob> http://downloads.maemo.org/product/gpe-filemanager/
Aug 31 00:33:49 <florian> :)
Aug 31 00:34:02 <florian> good night
Aug 31 00:34:11 <erstazi> MCCob: http://c-wd.net/maemo/sources.list
Aug 31 00:34:24 <MCCob> Yes erstazi  ?
Aug 31 00:34:24 <_Monkey> i think erstazi is sorry, this is what I get for not fully paying attention
Aug 31 00:34:27 <erstazi> MCCob: I think thats a sufficient one, unless someone has more to add to it
Aug 31 00:34:37 <erstazi> MCCob: that sources.list is for OS2006 (nokia 770)
Aug 31 00:34:39 <MCCob> for tapioca ?
Aug 31 00:34:59 <MCCob> I don't need source.list me it's setite ;)
Aug 31 00:35:02 <erstazi> MCCob: hmmm it might be there, check the comments in it
Aug 31 00:35:11 <MCCob> ok
Aug 31 00:35:15 <erstazi> MCCob: I know, but it might be there
Aug 31 00:38:45 <MCCob> yes, there is repository for tapioca but there is no longuer tapioca on this repository... or domain name no longuer resond. So I've sent an email to a tapica developper
Aug 31 00:39:01 <MCCob> Tapioca must be a good google talk client
Aug 31 00:39:58 <erstazi> MCCob: hmm, that is becoming common place
Aug 31 00:40:03 <erstazi> I think people are cleaning out
Aug 31 00:40:05 <trevarthan> so..... I guess hildon desktop isn't available in the current firmware either. I thought it would be, but it doesn't seem to be.
Aug 31 00:40:23 <erstazi> MCCob: have you tried google archive?
Aug 31 00:40:55 <setite> my connection to my phone keeps breaking lately.. any ideas?
Aug 31 00:42:03 <MCCob> yes erstazi
Aug 31 00:42:03 <_Monkey> rumour has it erstazi is sorry, this is what I get for not fully paying attention
Aug 31 00:45:08 <erstazi> _Monkey: forget erstazi
Aug 31 00:45:09 <_Monkey> erstazi: I forgot erstazi
Aug 31 00:47:11 <MCCob> good night
Aug 31 01:41:10 <pupnik>  we could also use a GM MIDI player for the DSP
Aug 31 01:41:58 <pupnik> OGG, MOD, MIDI would pretty much take care of the music situation
Aug 31 01:43:11 * pupnik passes green tea to kulve and lardman
Aug 31 01:45:37 <pupnik> OPL2 synth would be nice too, but most games that drive it (adlib) will do just fine with General MIDI as well
Aug 31 01:45:48 <pupnik> which can provide better sound quality at equal or lower cpu use
Aug 31 02:27:10 <edt> the plankton theme is messed up here with the new fmradio version & a reboot the applet uses the default theme.
Aug 31 02:27:44 <edt> other themes work ok though...
Aug 31 02:28:31 <edt> I have tried reinstall plankton with no joy
Aug 31 02:28:43 <edt> ideas?
Aug 31 02:31:03 <pupnik> does the problem happen with other applets?
Aug 31 02:31:15 <edt> no
Aug 31 02:31:40 <edt> they are fine
Aug 31 02:31:49 <pupnik> that is indeed confusing.  feedback to the fmradio maintainer
Aug 31 02:32:29 <edt> and fmradio changes with builtin themes
Aug 31 02:32:35 <pupnik> perhaps the problem lies with plankton though
Aug 31 02:32:45 <edt> yes
Aug 31 02:33:10 <pupnik> see if plankton is missing some files
Aug 31 02:34:31 <edt> the symptoms do look like it might. I have reinstall it twice - should be ok file wise
Aug 31 02:35:30 <pupnik> you know how to use ls and diff to see which files are missing?
Aug 31 02:36:15 <pupnik> ls -1 /path/to/working/theme > goodfiles.txt
Aug 31 02:36:28 <pupnik> ls -1 /path/to/plankton/theme > badfiles.txt
Aug 31 02:36:34 <pupnik> diff goodfiles.txt badfiles.txt
Aug 31 02:36:51 <pupnik> something like that for e.g.
Aug 31 02:37:11 <edt> what is the path?
Aug 31 02:38:34 <pupnik> offhand don't remember - /usr/share/something
Aug 31 02:39:05 <edt> and what .deb for diff?
Aug 31 02:45:34 <pupnik> diff isn't on the device?
Aug 31 02:46:27 <pupnik> if not then maybe cat goodfiles.txt badfiles.txt |sort
Aug 31 02:46:46 <pupnik> which will show files contained in both as appearing twice
Aug 31 02:46:55 <pupnik> or copy the txtfiles to a linux computer and do the diff
Aug 31 02:48:52 <pupnik> might want to sort them before doing the diff too, not sure if that's needed
Aug 31 02:52:08 <edt> diff can be smart at times...   if I seem to rember kde has some tools that should let me find if files are missing
Aug 31 02:52:45 <edt> s/if I/if not, I/
Aug 31 02:52:45 <infobot> edt meant: diff can be smart at times...   if not, I seem to rember kde has some tools that should let me find if files are missing
Aug 31 02:53:58 <edt> will have to wait till tomorrow though
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Aug 31 02:59:56 2007