**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 06 02:59:56 2007 Sep 06 03:12:59 moorning Sep 06 03:14:03 that it is :( Sep 06 04:12:55 * pupnik frolics Sep 06 04:13:37 Ron Paul won the Republican Presidential debate - Fox Text Message Results Poll "driving Hannity crrazy" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwtARO0Xpkk :) Sep 06 05:14:23 Pavarotti dead - poor bugger. Sep 06 05:26:23 hi everyone Sep 06 05:28:08 I finally sent my 770 to the repair center :S Sep 06 05:28:15 SOD Sep 06 05:28:20 after only 3 weeks of use Sep 06 05:28:51 that sucks :( Sep 06 05:28:51 that's weird...and I noticed it happened after I shutdown the tablet Sep 06 05:29:09 yep, usually the case Sep 06 05:29:17 that it happens after a shutdown Sep 06 05:29:23 I put the cover on the 770 and then my wife wanted to show something to a family member, when I turn the device, ugly lines! Sep 06 05:30:44 nobody has figured out what exactly they do to fix them? Sep 06 05:31:03 do they actually replace the screen or they might hack something in the OS? Sep 06 05:31:11 screen Sep 06 05:31:12 <_Monkey> hmmm... screen is bigger, so it's much more natural Sep 06 05:31:19 forget screen Sep 06 05:31:19 <_Monkey> milhouse: I forgot screen Sep 06 05:31:25 screen is Sep 06 05:33:12 how long it takes once they receive the device to have it fixed? (average) Sep 06 05:33:31 dunno, my n800 took 5 weeks to fix the sensitivity problem (UK). Sep 06 05:33:52 it varies by region... some people have gone months Sep 06 05:34:41 but that was a while back during a period when Nokia had just closed a major repair center in the US and moved it to Mexico... should be better now Sep 06 05:35:39 mhh.. I had to send mine from CA to AL Sep 06 05:35:49 (US) Sep 06 05:36:09 i think there's an SLA of about 30 days Sep 06 05:36:28 what's SLA? Sep 06 05:36:35 service level agreement Sep 06 05:36:38 oh Sep 06 05:36:52 bascially a commitment to you to complete the job within that timeframe, after which it should be escalated Sep 06 05:38:17 let me check the printout... Sep 06 05:39:44 Will it says "Turnaround time for in-warranty repairs is approximately 7-10 business days" Sep 06 05:40:03 2 weeks is not bad, but they don't say anything about what I'm entitled if they exceed that timeframe Sep 06 05:40:40 you should check the itt forum for other users experiences Sep 06 05:50:11 I have to say *thank you* to the community and the people who helped me learn how to use and port for this device. Sep 06 05:50:54 and the people at nokia who helped me too Sep 06 05:51:01 no, thank you :) Sep 06 05:51:20 pupnik, thanks for the good comments/suggestions thrown into this channel Sep 06 05:52:01 You're welcome. It's been a lot of fun. Sep 06 05:53:05 And there's so much to do. Sep 06 05:53:33 It's like a feast of opportunities to do cool things. Sep 06 05:54:04 On the PC there's always someone else, somewhere, who is already doing it. Sep 06 05:54:09 (almost) Sep 06 05:57:55 pupnik, hehe, I wanted to get really deep into developing in 770 until the freaking unit broke Sep 06 05:58:31 hi, I was wondering if anyone uses a nokia tablet with a keyboard to take notes in college? Sep 06 05:58:33 I already had my development enviroment setup script and some ideas (based on some proposals I made on the openmoko mailing list) Sep 06 05:58:43 now I need to wait :S Sep 06 05:59:35 and cares to comment on their experience :) Sep 06 06:00:00 gregorovius, my brother-in-law wanted to have one 770 with a laser keyboard... but I'll have to wait 'till I get back my 770 from repair :P Sep 06 06:00:26 (I was going to test it and made the setup for him.. he'll buy the keyboard Sep 06 06:01:10 I think the damn thing goes around $140? Sep 06 06:01:20 yep, that's why i'm looking at it :) Sep 06 06:01:25 which is about the current price of the 770 Sep 06 06:01:59 I'm looking for a subnotebook or something alike under $300 or so, and it seemed like a good choice Sep 06 06:02:23 but i'm not sure if the screen would be too small, or the keyboard/tablet combo too akward Sep 06 06:03:13 and battery time, as well Sep 06 06:04:01 If you'll be taking notes in classroom I bet will be easier if you have the nokia connected to the power outlet and using the bluetooth laser keyboard Sep 06 06:05:25 I was thinking in using a clicky keyboard, and a power outlet isn't always near Sep 06 06:08:14 how long does the battery last when only playing music? Sep 06 06:08:41 gregorovius, something like http://770.fs-security.com/maemo-bt-plugin/ ? Sep 06 06:09:05 that's right, saaib Sep 06 06:14:04 gregorovius, hope you find something nice Sep 06 06:14:18 but for now, time for bed... good night everyone Sep 06 06:30:40 ok, now we must have a good web-browser...because ipod touch is just a lot better regarding web-browsing experience.... Sep 06 06:39:12 hrm Sep 06 06:39:20 * timelyx looks for someone w/ microb and some spare time Sep 06 06:39:42 * timelyx blacklists MoRpHeUz Sep 06 06:39:56 in order to do what the iPhone does, you need a decent touch screen Sep 06 06:40:02 maemo devices don't have such a thing Sep 06 06:40:21 you also need forward thinking UI designers and no legacy requirements Sep 06 06:40:34 and you certainly need flexibility Sep 06 06:40:38 we don't really have those things Sep 06 06:46:22 * pupnik is back -- i have microb on 770 and time timelyx Sep 06 06:47:17 pupnik: ok, load about:config Sep 06 06:47:58 timelyx: yes! agreed! our main problems (on my point of view) are: touch screen, processor and gtk =P Sep 06 06:48:32 timelyx: sure we don't have a great touchscreen, but it's not really preventing anybody from creating a usable UI, sure you can't do two-finger zooming effects etc, but it's not /that/ bad Sep 06 06:48:33 timelyx: it's not developer's fault...I mean, the platform itself doesnt give sufficient power to developers do what they want to do. Sep 06 06:48:43 timelyx: imagine microb with 600 mhz... Sep 06 06:48:51 MoRpHeUz: actually, it wouldn't matter Sep 06 06:49:01 we could do most of what the iphone does in terms of features Sep 06 06:49:09 timelyx: for some reason it's crashing - can i start the browser from xterm? (hadn't crashed on me before) Sep 06 06:49:09 it's more a matter of engineering time than cycle time Sep 06 06:49:17 pupnik /usr/bin/browser Sep 06 06:49:24 timelyx: what do you mean with engineering time ? Sep 06 06:49:39 MoRpHeUz: we have a small team, they have tasks they need to do Sep 06 06:49:41 segfault :( Sep 06 06:49:45 there's no time to implement Sep 06 06:49:52 pupnik: do you have /media/mmc1/core-dumps? Sep 06 06:50:01 timelyx: ok...this is an issue also... Sep 06 06:50:10 timelyx: no - should i create that dir/ Sep 06 06:50:14 yes Sep 06 06:50:24 timelyx: but that's why "community" is out there hehe... Sep 06 06:50:43 it comes up with the browser window and i can see text entry field and icons Sep 06 06:50:45 timelyx: I have to say the priorities are totally fucked if the engineers don't have time to do what should be done... Sep 06 06:50:48 k-s proved that iphone keyboard is a piece of cake with evas... Sep 06 06:50:55 lle2: welcome to nokia Sep 06 06:50:56 ok got a core dump Sep 06 06:51:06 i'm done w/ my work for the release, i finished ~2hrs ago Sep 06 06:51:13 and now it's time for me to take a vacation Sep 06 06:51:16 or at least pack for one Sep 06 06:51:38 * MoRpHeUz claims for a better touch screen and cpu power... Sep 06 06:51:46 timelyx: I call bullshit, there's no reason why we (osso) need to repeat every one of the mistakes the previous four platform organizations have done Sep 06 06:51:51 pupnik: in theory you can apt-get install -dbg packages for microb Sep 06 06:51:54 the other stuff we can do... Sep 06 06:52:19 lle2: organizational structure seems to demand it Sep 06 06:52:36 lle2: note: nothing i say here means i endorse these practices Sep 06 06:52:36 ok well i guess i can't be the quick tester - gonna reboot to see if it solves it Sep 06 06:52:39 timelyx: does not, I suggest that we go on strike to fix it Sep 06 06:52:46 we need to organize better ourselves... apple probably also has organization issues.. Sep 06 06:53:30 i think organization issues are more rule than exception =) Sep 06 06:53:46 timelyx: I know, it's just that the only thing I hear when talking to engineers is how /nothing/ can be done any other way than it's currently being screwed up Sep 06 06:53:50 jani: agreed.....I've worked for ibm before and it was even worse.... Sep 06 06:54:17 lle2: we're currently doing end runs around ui specifications by adding easter eggs into core :) Sep 06 06:54:45 reboot fixed segfault Sep 06 06:54:54 timelyx: uhh :) Sep 06 06:54:58 timelyx: microb is almost perfect for me....just need more cpu power to make it faster and a better input (touchscreen + another vkbd) Sep 06 06:55:00 ok, that's a known bug Sep 06 06:55:21 MoRpHeUz: yes, i really want to fire the current vkb, it causes all sorts of problems for us Sep 06 06:55:32 ok about:config gives "illegal address // opera:config" Sep 06 06:55:45 pupnik: um, switch engines: ) Sep 06 06:55:49 timelyx: yeah...we need to thing something better than that for canola also Sep 06 06:56:02 s/canola/new version of canola/ Sep 06 06:56:03 MoRpHeUz meant: timelyx: yeah...we need to thing something better than that for new version of canola also Sep 06 06:56:17 s/new/the next/ Sep 06 06:56:18 hhmm Sep 06 06:56:34 exactly Sep 06 06:56:51 timelyx: btw, am I out of your blacklist ? lol =P Sep 06 06:57:09 yes Sep 06 06:57:38 sorry, i take demands on the browser personally Sep 06 06:59:01 haha =D Sep 06 07:01:05 derf: ping Sep 06 07:05:39 timelyx: but yeah, it's unbelievable that during the last 3-4 months that nokia has been evaluating/testing/developing sb2, they've yet to produce a single patch Sep 06 07:06:17 some valuable feedback and error reports, but that's it Sep 06 07:06:34 lle2: i sent you patches :) Sep 06 07:06:40 (don't count me as nokia) Sep 06 07:06:54 you don't count as nokia Sep 06 07:07:01 glad we agree :) Sep 06 07:09:19 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/ i can't browse down this Sep 06 07:09:22 microb-browser - MicroB engine for OSSO browser Sep 06 07:09:25 Nokia770-49:~# apt-cache policy microb-browser Sep 06 07:09:27 Installed: 0.0.8-3 Sep 06 07:09:29 aah there's an update Sep 06 07:10:04 /bin/sh: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: not found Sep 06 07:10:05 dpkg: cannot scan updates directory `/var/lib/dpkg/updates/': Input/output error Sep 06 07:10:28 Is your fs b0rken? Sep 06 07:10:40 must be Sep 06 07:10:50 ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/ shows now updates Sep 06 07:10:57 s/now/no/ Sep 06 07:10:57 pupnik meant: ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/ shows no updates Sep 06 07:11:13 ls: /var/lib/dpkg/updates: Input/output error Sep 06 07:11:32 sounds healthy Sep 06 07:11:52 apt-get new device Sep 06 07:12:07 * pupnik ponders Sep 06 07:12:27 apple-get new ipod Sep 06 07:12:39 well it's mmc - i'll reboot and copy a known good file system to the partition Sep 06 07:15:22 lle2: sounds better, probably works, definitely cheaper Sep 06 07:15:57 pupnik: you probably want to use 2g or smaller mmcs Sep 06 07:16:02 1g recommended Sep 06 07:16:31 never had filesystem errors til now (just dropped the 770 again on the floor btw) Sep 06 07:16:42 heh Sep 06 07:16:54 * timelyx wanders to work Sep 06 07:16:59 ttyl Sep 06 07:19:44 * lardman is watching the iPod touch video (they don't make it easy to play on WinXP!) Sep 06 07:20:03 it's rather a slick way to get people to buy music Sep 06 07:21:28 Cool, free starbucks wifi access and it automatically lines up the song playing in the store so you can download it (and pay) Sep 06 07:21:31 very slick Sep 06 07:21:46 "yey" Sep 06 07:21:54 hah Sep 06 07:22:02 The cool for me was the free wifi Sep 06 07:24:12 zune feels so pathetic after ipod touch :P Sep 06 07:28:55 ipod touch wil be n800 competitor for web browsing and media playback... Sep 06 07:29:02 s/wil/will Sep 06 07:29:16 maybe nokia improves next devices touch screen ? Sep 06 07:29:18 =) Sep 06 07:29:27 no chance Sep 06 07:29:32 add a keyboard! Sep 06 07:29:45 does touch have bt? Sep 06 07:29:50 no Sep 06 07:32:23 the funny thing is that it's not what should be added to n800, it's what should be a) removed b) made to work Sep 06 07:33:14 what's large resolution video playback like with mplayer these days? Sep 06 07:33:30 I wonder what processor the ipod uses Sep 06 07:33:45 I'm pretty sure it's the same as iphone Sep 06 07:34:10 which would make it a samsung arm11 at 620MHz or so Sep 06 07:34:55 ah, it's the one with powervr & hw accelerators for video, etc.? Sep 06 07:35:05 bit like our omap? ;) Sep 06 07:35:32 not sure about those, but yeah. although apple has only support for a couple of video formats and has made sure those actually work Sep 06 07:36:51 they rely on the service or itunes to feed appropriate content, pretty smart move to avoid abysmal user experience. either it works or it's not supported. not this almost kinda fucked up support for everything Sep 06 07:37:31 it does all fit together very nicely, not what I want, but certainly a nice end-user experience for those who just want music Sep 06 07:37:49 or video from itunes Sep 06 07:38:00 very very very good end user experience Sep 06 07:38:25 the gimmicky download-the-music-playing-in-Starbucks thing is also an interesting idea (and may be useful) Sep 06 07:53:22 Morning, all Sep 06 08:05:59 Presumably the iPod Touch is running the same OS as the iPhone, so UNIX-like under the covers and the iPhone hacks (1m sold already!) will work. BT would be a killer feature for headphones/keyboards/phones tho Sep 06 08:07:47 yeah.. phone connectivity would be killer.. but.. perhaps left out intentionally to improve iphone sales Sep 06 08:09:20 Perhaps. Either way, it's a direct competitor to the N800 (I think the iPhone is, but I know others strongly disagree) - remember the "N" stands for "multimedia". Which is ironic, due to the crapness of the built-in apps ;-) Sep 06 08:09:55 Built-in multimedia apps have to contend with patent-issues do they not? Sep 06 08:10:24 What else would stand in the way of nokia using ssvb's mplayer? Sep 06 08:10:57 * pupnik is not informed about such issues Sep 06 08:11:09 NIH-syndrome, it's viewed as not-finished, commitment to gstreamer, ... - take your pick. Sep 06 08:11:21 ok Sep 06 08:11:44 Nokia have a big patent arsenal of their own, and I'm mostly talking UI anyway. As lle2 said - Apple improve the user experience by providing an end-to-end working solution Sep 06 08:12:20 Nokia say "DivX" which is technically correct, but most people seem to expect to be able to play random 640x368 downloaded videos without problem when they hear that. Sep 06 08:12:23 Yeah, and apple thows their whole weight behind their OS, while Nokia has competing platforms Sep 06 08:12:30 heh yes Sep 06 08:12:43 Jaffa: you'll notice none of the pmp players in market (including apples solution) supports any significant amount of codecs Sep 06 08:13:41 supporting all the codecs used for warezing is a dead-end route, you'll never be able to support all of them, and you'll get sued Sep 06 08:13:50 lle2: you are right about iphone/ipod touch' s processor Sep 06 08:14:54 I'm amazed that some of the very closed media players have any significant market success. But i am not joe sixpack. Sep 06 08:14:58 lle2: are you from osso ? Sep 06 08:15:32 Jaffa: so the only sensible solution is to support one (1) codec with one (1) resolution (the screen's native one) and plug in a webshop that sells exactly those Sep 06 08:16:42 if the n800 had a better touchscreen + more power processor we could solve software issues (bad UI and so on)... Sep 06 08:18:18 the problem is that developers need more power from the platform...if nokia doesnt give this for us, it'll be really difficult to be cooler than ipod touch for example... Sep 06 08:18:25 for multimedia stuff we need good hardware.. Sep 06 08:18:33 our screensize is just great.... Sep 06 08:18:37 the N800 is 'good' Sep 06 08:18:47 we need that with a better touchscreen.... Sep 06 08:18:52 pupnik: exactly... Sep 06 08:18:59 also we need IR , power usb-host, buttons on the right , working openvr , 3d display's 4d speakers, lazer keyboards, multi touch screen , webcam based controlling, hartbeat monitors, gps and gprs functionality Sep 06 08:19:16 pupnik: n800's hardware is nothing more than "good" Sep 06 08:19:30 actually the N800 is the best Sep 06 08:19:34 keesj: not that much hehe Sep 06 08:19:42 the screen is just great Sep 06 08:19:56 best performance/power too Sep 06 08:19:56 keesj: you forgot coffee brewer and kitchen sink Sep 06 08:20:06 that's the most idiotic argument ever Sep 06 08:20:09 pupnik: if you consider the whole platform...but the hardware is not that good...imagine n800 with a 600 mhz processor ? Sep 06 08:20:11 suihkulokki: indeed - and/or provide a nice client environment for downloading/finding/transcoding/syncing ones. Imagine Democracy (or whatever it's called now) + iTunes + YouTube + RSS + BitTorrent + transcoding + N800. Yum. Sep 06 08:20:27 long battery live, blood or solar powered Sep 06 08:20:27 throw more processing power at it.. *rolleyes* Sep 06 08:20:34 MoRpHeUz: i don't think you know what hardware was available 1.5-2 years ago. Sep 06 08:20:53 pupnik: when do you think that apple started building their hardware ? Sep 06 08:20:59 ;-) Sep 06 08:21:16 Name a better SOC than the 2420 then Sep 06 08:21:37 cpu power is the solution for lazy programmers Sep 06 08:21:53 ok, so let's forget cpu power.... Sep 06 08:22:16 let's talk about the bandwidth that makes that horrible "tilt" effect.... Sep 06 08:22:26 why did they put that bus ? Sep 06 08:22:41 and not one with a bigger bandwidth ? Sep 06 08:22:47 because it's not designed for 800x480 displays with video playback Sep 06 08:22:53 suihkulokki: cpu power is very relevant to a few applications. Unconverted movies, flashy UIs, ajax style websites. Sep 06 08:22:59 soc/screen bandwidth bandwith right? Sep 06 08:23:13 SoC = System on a Chip Sep 06 08:23:41 suihkulokki: ok..so you give the user a 800x480 screen but do not want him to play his movies using this resolution ? Sep 06 08:24:06 MoRpHeUz: Nokia chose the right CPU (SoC) Sep 06 08:24:46 I mean, n800 is a good hardware device...but it needs some improvements to become a great one Sep 06 08:24:48 And i'm confident Nokia will choose the right SoC for the N800 successor. Sep 06 08:25:04 pupnik: I'm not that confident hehe.... Sep 06 08:25:17 pupnik: but let's pray for it ! =D Sep 06 08:26:01 MoRpHeUz: again, take a look at the SoC's that were available during 770 and N800 development and let us know if you find any with the same power drain and double the performance. Sep 06 08:27:13 Because you're talking as if they made some terrible design decision in the hardware Sep 06 08:27:28 pupnik: maybe they just take too much time to release the hardware ? Sep 06 08:27:29 I think you guys are missing the picture from average users point of view Sep 06 08:27:40 they could use the hw better though, powervr / h264 decoding Sep 06 08:27:41 what you want is a general purpose linux pc Sep 06 08:27:55 what they want is a easy to use web browser Sep 06 08:28:24 pupnik: I mean, at the time they designed the hardware it was the best possible solution, but it took so many time to release the hardware that it was not that good at release time... Sep 06 08:28:49 suihkulokki: that's the point.. Sep 06 08:29:04 suihkulokki: our device does not have a good web-browsing experience... Sep 06 08:29:21 it's pretty good Sep 06 08:29:27 MoRpHeUz: because they have added too many features that make it complicated Sep 06 08:29:43 suihkulokki: or because the touchscreen is not that responsive, the vkbd is not that good... Sep 06 08:29:48 and this ircing community is only suggesting to add more features Sep 06 08:29:50 gla55_: have you ever tried iphone's one ? =) Sep 06 08:29:53 * Jaffa was looking for a new gadget bag in bed last night, and gave up using his N800 because it just wasn't good enough at opening one page in the background whilst reading another. And then copy & paste stopped working... Sep 06 08:30:18 when 90% of the current features should be cut out, and the remaining 10% implemented well Sep 06 08:30:19 Gave up and used my wife's laptop for a much more enjoyable experience :-( Was very depressing Sep 06 08:30:22 Jaffa: that's the point...and did you see how amazing easy is to web browse with iphone ? Sep 06 08:30:44 so everyone and is sister is whining wabout flash pluging Sep 06 08:30:46 MoRpHeUz: in some ways it's better web experience than iphone Sep 06 08:30:52 pupnik: but anyway, I was just trying to figure out what we can make better =) Sep 06 08:30:54 when iphone doesn't come with one Sep 06 08:31:11 -> remove flashplayer and add a hardcoded youtube player Sep 06 08:31:23 suihkulokki: maybe a good solution... Sep 06 08:31:42 suihkulokki: as the current flashplayer doesnt play well youtube videos...(looses some frames) Sep 06 08:31:47 the mediaplayer plays 3gp, no? use youtube mobile? Sep 06 08:32:38 it's better to have simple things working than advanced ones that does not work so well Sep 06 08:34:22 anyway, I'm just wondering what we can do to make our platform the best one =) Sep 06 08:34:29 MoRpHeUz : indeed Sep 06 08:34:55 Support new users, advocate the tablet, help with wiki and bugzilla Sep 06 08:35:42 pupnik: give opinions about hardware, release good software... Sep 06 08:35:48 all of it =) Sep 06 08:36:30 MoRpHeUz: personally I think the biggest thing community could do is put some better finishing touch to 3rd party apps Sep 06 08:37:04 Yes. Sep 06 08:37:07 more hildonized ui, less crasy apps, put the apps in maemo extras instead of those damnded random repos Sep 06 08:37:19 yea Sep 06 08:37:30 suihkulokki: yeah, as a community member I agree...and as an INdT worker I need to know the device's/platform's flaws... Sep 06 08:37:42 exactly what i need to be doing right now Sep 06 08:37:52 =P Sep 06 08:37:57 Or when i get back... - ttyl Sep 06 08:38:08 suihkulokki: I think you just have to look at the iPhone to see how well polished third party apps are, if the ones on the platform itself are polished. Sep 06 08:39:26 Jaffa: for sure we need to take some lessons with this iphone release...one of them is: simplicity is much better than lot of "almost-working" features =) Sep 06 08:42:47 btw, anybody from Oulu here ? Sep 06 08:42:48 =) Sep 06 08:43:20 \o Sep 06 08:44:04 Mikho: I'm working here in Oulu these days =) good city Sep 06 08:44:12 I like it here too Sep 06 08:44:49 MoRpHeUz: well I think you'll find more people in oulu who decide about the hardware than from here :P Sep 06 08:45:38 suihkulokki: haha, for sure...I'm inside nokia right now =) hehe Sep 06 08:45:55 suihkulokki: but it's good to know your opinion and so on Sep 06 08:46:13 good to talk about this subject anyway =) Sep 06 08:46:47 my opinion is kinda irrelevant :P Sep 06 08:48:03 suihkulokki: not for me hehe....everybody's opinion is important...(ok, there are some people that it's better to ignore but for sure you're not one of those hehe) Sep 06 09:03:56 Hello Sep 06 09:05:06 I have 4 external file nammed *.PNG and *.txt.. I want to add these file in debian..How to do that? Sep 06 09:06:52 sujan: what do you mean 'external' Sep 06 09:07:10 and add them to what? Sep 06 09:07:38 means i have an text file and i read data from that file Sep 06 09:07:44 debian Sep 06 09:07:45 <_Monkey> debian is probably really easy to use, and I think the install that exists on the nokia devices are a lot more custom tailored for them than you think Sep 06 09:07:53 your question really makes no sense Sep 06 09:08:08 sujan: I am sorry, I have no idea what you are asking Sep 06 09:08:30 Ok Sep 06 09:08:33 you read them with what? less? and where are the files if not in debian, if debian is the os that you run Sep 06 09:08:35 I think he means a debian package... Sep 06 09:08:40 sujan: you have a text file that you read, and you want to add it.. whatever that means Sep 06 09:09:09 yes,debian package Sep 06 09:09:11 probably he has a program with these files and he wants to package everything..(I guess hehe) Sep 06 09:09:12 =) Sep 06 09:09:17 ya Sep 06 09:09:43 yes, is correct Sep 06 09:14:35 good morning Sep 06 09:35:58 Can you please give me any idea about making debian package from eclipse IDE? Sep 06 09:36:17 I am using laika Sep 06 09:57:53 :) Sep 06 10:40:38 someone try angstrom-distro on n800? Sep 06 10:46:13 yes Sep 06 11:28:34 How many bitstreams do ogg vorbis files normally have? Sep 06 11:29:21 just wondering if I can write for the simplest case first, then extend if needs be Sep 06 11:33:15 lardman: Pong. Sep 06 11:33:22 derf: Hi Sep 06 11:33:23 <_Monkey> hello, lardman Sep 06 11:33:44 I'm taking another crack at method #2 Sep 06 11:34:04 but throwing away most of the existing code, for the time being at least Sep 06 11:34:14 ov_read() and sub-functions that is Sep 06 11:35:03 derf: Is there any requirement to track granules? Other than for display/seeking purposes? Sep 06 11:37:13 derf: the other question is: do normal ogg vorbis files contain a single bitstream? If so, I could make the code easier to understand and write (in the first instance at least) Sep 06 11:38:05 You need to know the granule position on the first page and last page of a chain. Sep 06 11:38:38 Because it's used to signal how many samples to trim off the beginning and end of the stream (for sample-accurate cuts). Sep 06 11:39:36 And while we encourage proper chaining support, reality is of course that most people drop it on the floor. Sep 06 11:39:38 is this as part of the decoding step (i.e. extra info can be included but not output), or simply so people can fiddle with which parts of the file are output? Sep 06 11:40:43 I'd be happy to support chaining too, but implementing the whole lot in one go is painful, so I was going to go easiest case first, then add further support Sep 06 11:40:55 Yeah, that's certainly reasonable. Sep 06 11:41:05 so most files don't need chaining? Sep 06 11:41:09 Correct. Sep 06 11:41:14 good good Sep 06 11:41:20 makes life easier Sep 06 11:41:59 Anyway, the idea behind sample accurate cutting is so someone can take a file and cut it at an exact location without re-encoding. Sep 06 11:42:20 okay, so in the first instance, I don't need to pay that too much attention? Sep 06 11:42:48 Since of course the exact location won't necessarily fall on a block boundary, some of the beginning samples or ending samples will have to be discarded. Sep 06 11:43:45 You don't really need to pay attention when decoding, but you should pay attention when routing the decoded output to the speakers. Sep 06 11:44:34 why? surely the bitrate is set already? Sep 06 11:44:45 so there's no need to track the amount of pcm data Sep 06 11:44:50 other than to ensure that there's enough Sep 06 11:46:36 someone use aircrack-ng? i installed it but not have aireplay-ng!! someideas? Sep 06 11:49:14 I don't see what bitrate has to do with anything. Sep 06 11:50:14 I'm saying the MDCT output of the first two blocks will be n samples, but you might only be supposed to output m of them, where 0<=m<=n. Sep 06 11:50:27 And similarly for the last two blocks. Sep 06 11:50:27 ah, I see, that's what I was wondering Sep 06 11:50:46 the bitrate was something else - about your comment of keeping track of what's sent to the speakers Sep 06 11:51:12 The granule position contains enough information to tell you how many samples to drop. Sep 06 11:51:21 Is that because the output of the MDCT may sound odd for the first/last blocks due to padding? Sep 06 11:51:37 or just doesn't contain information in fact Sep 06 11:51:42 useful info that is Sep 06 11:52:14 Well, notice I said the first two blocks. Sep 06 11:52:27 It always takes at least two successive blocks to get any output at all. Sep 06 11:52:33 okay Sep 06 11:52:58 So half of the first block is always padding. Sep 06 11:53:24 But that padding is supposed to be chosen in such a way that it doesn't compromise the real signal that follows (and is easy to compress). Sep 06 11:53:32 and the latter half is constructed to improve the compression of the first actual audio data? Sep 06 11:53:59 Right. Sep 06 11:54:38 okay, so I'll get some odd bits and pieces if I output the entire stream. That's fine for the time being, I can add granule tracking once I've worked out how to structure the code Sep 06 11:54:39 thanks Sep 06 11:54:41 Discarding leading samples is really just done to support cutting a file at somewhere other than a block boundary. Sep 06 12:08:17 * kriebz is sad Sep 06 12:08:25 my 770 is getting really flakey Sep 06 12:08:34 might be time to consider a re-flash Sep 06 12:08:42 but I thought I had the newest OS when I got it Sep 06 12:13:49 Mornin' Sep 06 12:13:56 hi Sep 06 12:13:57 <_Monkey> hello, kriebz Sep 06 12:14:04 hi! Sep 06 12:14:37 How is everyone? Sep 06 12:15:53 * kriebz is sad Sep 06 12:15:53 my 770 is getting really flakey Sep 06 12:15:53 might be time to consider a re-flash Sep 06 12:16:37 Time for an n800 Sep 06 12:16:40 I got it from woot.com Sep 06 12:16:41 flake happens Sep 06 12:16:47 for all I know it's a re-furb Sep 06 12:17:04 I can't afford the n800 right now Sep 06 12:17:16 also, it's not a cool looking Sep 06 12:17:20 as* Sep 06 12:17:25 that's what's so nice about booting from mmc - just copy back an old OS image and you're at the same spot you left off on your last backup Sep 06 12:17:44 yeah, I'm going to buy one Sep 06 12:17:48 right now, why not Sep 06 12:17:49 no need to spend 2 afternoons reinstalling and reconfiguring one Sep 06 12:18:04 i have a 770 Sep 06 12:18:11 I need to see if i can figure out mmc boot on my 800 Sep 06 12:18:35 does the n800 support DS as well? I thought I heard that. Sep 06 12:18:46 ds? Sep 06 12:18:53 oops Sep 06 12:18:55 SD Sep 06 12:19:02 800 has 2 sd slots Sep 06 12:19:24 anyone hack an SD-IO stack for it yet? Sep 06 12:19:49 I have a 4gb mmc and a 1gb mmc instaled here Sep 06 12:19:53 i forgot what SDIO is Sep 06 12:20:07 cards like WiFi for an SD slot Sep 06 12:20:17 people with newer Palms use them Sep 06 12:20:28 robl^: help me out - i don't have an N800 - why do you say mmc? i thought the slots were for SD? Sep 06 12:20:47