**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Sep 13 02:59:57 2007 Sep 13 03:14:29 I'm reading https://maemo.org/community/wiki/codenames/ to understand codenames of Maemo versions. My 770 came with 3.2006.49-2. That would seem to be "Bora" but isn't listed as such on the page. Am I right? Sep 13 03:31:21 <[31d1]> mistral i believe Sep 13 03:31:28 <[31d1]> cause of 2006 Sep 13 03:37:12 Thanks [31d1]. Control panel: Device: About Product says: Internet Tablet OS 2006 edition, Version 3.2006.49-2. Sep 13 03:38:11 3.2006.49-2 seems (according to the codenames page) be Maemo 3.x, and that, in turn, seems to be Bora. I don't trust the page, but I don't have a better reference. Do you? Sep 13 03:39:11 I'm a cautions newbie, trying to find what makes sense to jam on my 770. Sep 13 03:55:25 <[31d1]> 770 is maemo2.x i know that much. 3.x is OS2007 for 800 Sep 13 04:46:37 does anyone have a snes emulator for their n800? Sep 13 05:49:38 does anyone know what the correct lines should be in my /etc/apt/sources.list for the catalog.tableteer.nokia.com stuff? Sep 13 05:54:37 no one? Sep 13 05:54:38 <_Monkey> rumour has it no one is on skype now Sep 13 06:58:51 Hmm. v=w2.999 no longer works. Sep 13 07:35:04 So would it be presumptuous to just barge into the channel and announce my question like I'm the center of the universe? Sep 13 07:37:54 Tell me if I can make it better than that somehow, but basically I'm looking at an mce.ini that stops working any time I modify it at all. Sep 13 08:40:22 good morning Sep 13 09:30:30 Does mce.ini need to remain the same size? Sep 13 09:30:59 I just accomplished my first edit that took effect, out of something like 50 attempts. Sep 13 09:33:18 can we use Qt for GUI on N800 Sep 13 09:34:43 to some extend yes i guess. Sep 13 09:34:57 why not? Sep 13 09:35:09 people are running whole KDE Sep 13 09:35:58 is the vkb support ready yet for qt widgets? Sep 13 09:36:46 I'm still waiting for my Nokia, so I only know what people were talking here and what I've read. Sep 13 09:37:11 but probably you can use some custom vkb Sep 13 09:38:04 QT supports "uim" Sep 13 09:38:10 Universal Input Method Sep 13 09:39:39 RushPL: issue could be memory. i am reading on forums and blogs Sep 13 09:40:09 Tili: you can create a swap file, but yes, memory can be quite a problem. Sep 13 09:40:31 qt phone edition worked fine on 770 Sep 13 09:40:53 jani: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Kvkbd?content=56019 - I bet you could use that. Sep 13 09:44:52 I can't wait to run Windows XP on the N800 Sep 13 09:46:11 pupnik: please kill me before you do that :) Sep 13 09:46:55 pupnik: you could try compiling qemu for the n800, and run XP in it.. Sep 13 09:47:04 fortunately N800 is still ARM, isn't it? Sep 13 09:47:16 or run XP over VNC Sep 13 09:48:13 Running KDE on it is just slightly less silly. :) Sep 13 09:48:42 But hey, whatever is fun for you. More power to ya Sep 13 09:49:11 suihkulokki: qemu won't run - forgot exactly where the problem is Sep 13 09:49:49 pupnik: it's just C code.. fix it =) Sep 13 09:51:30 i'm playing with dosbox atm Sep 13 09:53:18 trying to get 0.72 running faster than 0.65 Sep 13 09:54:57 someone recently moved a propiertary dos app from a aging 486 machine with linksys nslu-2 running dosbox Sep 13 09:55:09 I found that quite amazing Sep 13 10:10:58 more licence queries - can one make BSD-like licensed code into GPL code? Sep 13 10:13:37 no, but you can combine BSD-licenced code and GPL-licenced code Sep 13 10:16:21 But what happens if you modify BSD-licensed code but want your changes to be GPL? Sep 13 10:17:12 lardman: just go ahead and license your code as gpl Sep 13 10:17:33 lardman: the aggregate code would act as though its gpl Sep 13 10:19:35 robtaylor: Yes Sep 13 10:21:19 BSD rather than Linux would be interesting. Sep 13 10:21:26 Or solaris Sep 13 10:21:35 Solaris might be a bit large though. Sep 13 10:21:41 And I don't know if bsd supports jffs Sep 13 10:22:10 Deformative: There is BSD for the Zaurus, you might look there Sep 13 10:22:32 There are more useful wastes of time though. Sep 13 10:23:16 embedded bsd, jay, more locked devices! Sep 13 10:24:04 I really like that nokia puts jffs on the 770 Sep 13 10:24:07 Well. Sep 13 10:24:16 I have to go now. Sep 13 10:24:21 What else could they have used? Sep 13 10:24:27 yaffs Sep 13 10:25:02 lle2: pros and cons of both? Sep 13 10:25:17 ignore me, on the web page Sep 13 10:25:29 oh no, broken link, question stands Sep 13 10:25:33 lardman: They could have been idiots and used fat32 Sep 13 10:25:33 * lle2 ignores Sep 13 10:25:35 >.> Sep 13 10:25:47 Like every other flash vender does. Sep 13 10:25:59 eh? Sep 13 10:26:04 Deformative: but then you have hardware wear leveling Sep 13 10:26:35 Doubt it. Sep 13 10:26:39 fat is just fine for media files Sep 13 10:26:50 Yeah. Sep 13 10:27:25 Well, I need to go to school, I guess Imma get to work on rxvt when I get back. Sep 13 10:27:26 o/ Sep 13 10:27:43 and we could've lived with a readonly fs just fine Sep 13 10:28:00 /tmp Sep 13 10:28:04 * Deformative leaves again Sep 13 10:28:15 yaffs doesn't do compression, doesn't work well on NOR, but other than that is smaller (mem overhead) and faster Sep 13 10:28:24 but nooooo, we had to have rw Sep 13 10:29:49 even if nobody is able to upgrade the device without a full reflash Sep 13 10:30:12 such a waste Sep 13 10:30:15 I think the plan is to allow incremental updates Sep 13 10:30:52 plus if we didn't have rw, we'd need to go back to the original system of installing things in odd places Sep 13 10:30:57 i'll believe it when i see it Sep 13 10:31:35 why would that be? Sep 13 10:32:21 userdata in the fat, tmp as tmpfs Sep 13 10:32:21 you wouldn't be able to install things to a ro filesystem Sep 13 10:33:46 big loss, just let people who want to do that install them to sd cards using whatever filesystem they please, mount it on top of the regular root if needed Sep 13 10:34:46 Using something like unionfs? Sep 13 10:34:53 Which was buggy, and may still be Sep 13 10:35:03 no, just plain regular mount Sep 13 10:35:17 that root would need to have the full system Sep 13 10:35:33 in which case I can't install stuff to the standard directory - /usr/bin Sep 13 10:35:53 unionfs should work too, if the "real root" was ro Sep 13 10:35:54 why not? Sep 13 10:36:25 you would effectively boot from the sd Sep 13 10:36:41 ah, I see what you mean, well why have the flash at all in that case? Sep 13 10:36:46 same cruft there as in the built-in flas Sep 13 10:36:47 plus the cards are slow Sep 13 10:37:19 not that slow Sep 13 10:37:33 maybe by 50 percent or so Sep 13 10:37:49 that's quite slow Sep 13 10:37:50 but that should only affect load times Sep 13 10:37:52 still faster than jffs2 =) Sep 13 10:38:02 fair enough Sep 13 10:38:46 the bonus of having ro root is it so much harder for the user to brick it uninstallable Sep 13 10:39:10 that too Sep 13 10:39:27 yes, but realistically it's not possible to brick the device anyway, even flashing it Sep 13 10:39:44 and the sd cards are getting faster all the time Sep 13 10:39:58 lardman: that's one of the good designs of the tablets, I'd say. Sep 13 10:40:03 as long as users steer clear of a terminal, and sudo gainroot, then can't do much damage Sep 13 10:40:06 Veggen: yes Sep 13 10:40:12 of the omaps to be precise Sep 13 10:40:41 shame part of that design wasn't to release technical manuals too! Sep 13 10:41:00 but i think we're talking of different level of brickness Sep 13 10:41:24 brickness level =) Sep 13 10:41:58 surely there is only one level, the level where it's only useful as a paperweight? Sep 13 10:42:05 soft, virtual and hard brickness Sep 13 10:42:16 currently the user can put something funny in ~/.profile and find out his/her device no longer boots Sep 13 10:42:16 semi-baked brick? Sep 13 10:42:38 and the only recourse is to reflash firmware Sep 13 10:42:51 ok, so it's a flaw Sep 13 10:43:04 hard means the rom code can't load anything over the serial and run it Sep 13 10:43:38 virtual means the bootloader starts but can't do shit Sep 13 10:44:01 soft is the normal case of reboot loops etc Sep 13 10:44:30 my definitions =) Sep 13 10:45:01 Have a method of booting to a recovery console then, let that wipe the contents of ~/.profile etc. Sep 13 10:48:03 That's what the Zaurus cxxx(x) machines had Sep 13 11:17:35 Morning, all Sep 13 11:18:59 morning Jaffa Sep 13 11:22:12 did you ever find out whether you could get more DSP info if you signed a NDA lardman? Sep 13 11:22:54 I'm not sure it was an NDA, it was more the cost involved Sep 13 11:23:07 I think I emailed them back to ask, but no reply Sep 13 11:23:09 ok Sep 13 11:23:16 In any case the DSP info is pretty good Sep 13 11:24:30 but integrating into gstreamer and outputting to the dac are still problems, no? Sep 13 11:25:41 well no, I could sit down (and do some learning) and write a codec driver Sep 13 11:26:06 but then I would need to re-compile the DSP kernel, which means I'd loose Nokia's bits & pieces Sep 13 11:26:24 so the existing dspsinks wouldn't work Sep 13 11:26:33 plus it seems like a lot of work really Sep 13 11:26:36 ok Sep 13 11:27:10 I understand that Nokia are thinking of moving towards stacking audio codecs anyway, so writing one that passes data back and forth to the ARM is not a bad thing Sep 13 11:27:46 stacking? Sep 13 11:27:57 The one thing I would like, is to be able to access the BT hardware directly, but hopefully Nokia will sort that (it would be a kernel recompile again) Sep 13 11:28:01 OpenMAX Sep 13 11:28:26 so you could decode mp3 -> pcm -> sbc Sep 13 11:28:28 that sort of thing Sep 13 11:28:31 ahh Sep 13 11:28:55 rather than monolithic dspsinks that do everything and then output on the dsp-side Sep 13 11:29:02 that's my understanding anwyay Sep 13 11:32:18 I've got a couple of compiler errors remaining on the dsp-side vorbis decoder, then I can try it and see if anything happens ;) Sep 13 11:32:49 though I think I'll need to read the C54 to C55 migration docs as the asm was written for a C54 Sep 13 11:32:59 equally it may not work at all Sep 13 11:33:02 :) Sep 13 12:47:50 Is maemo linux easy to create programmes? Sep 13 12:50:09 is maemo extentionable?can I compile many programmes for maemo?Is maemo openSource? Sep 13 12:50:20 yes Sep 13 12:50:36 yes for all my questions? Sep 13 12:50:41 yes :) Sep 13 12:51:14 see http://maemo.org/ and https://garage.maemo.org/ for a start Sep 13 12:51:23 will maemo ever run on non nokia hardware? Sep 13 12:52:07 it can do so already? Sep 13 12:52:33 It can run in the scratchbox emulator... so I guess that's non nokia Sep 13 12:53:04 scratchbox isn't an emulator Sep 13 12:55:01 oh, I thought the scratchbox enrionment included some way to pretty closely execute stuff intended to run on the ARM hardware Sep 13 12:55:03 dpb_, :) Sep 13 12:55:22 so scratchbox is more of a toolchain then Sep 13 12:55:25 qemu would be the emulation part Sep 13 12:56:30 with sb1 it's all tangled into one giant thing Sep 13 12:56:35 so can you run something completely opensource, like sardine, on a i386 box and have it behave as if it is running on Nokia hardware? Sep 13 12:57:02 you guys count peas Sep 13 12:57:04 and related, could somebody like Sharp suddenly show up with a box that runs Sardine? Sep 13 12:57:05 *es Sep 13 12:57:41 sure it is possible somebody clones everything Sep 13 12:57:51 true Sep 13 12:57:58 not very easy because it is such a mess Sep 13 12:58:05 isnt that allready happening with some nokia products ? Sep 13 12:58:33 pirate factories are making fakes of real nokia products. Sep 13 12:58:45 is it correct that scratchbox delegates execution of an ARMEL binary completely to quemu? Sep 13 12:58:52 yeah, buut nokia is pretty good at hunting them down Sep 13 12:59:29 jonek, yes, either qemu or through sbrsh to the target hw itself Sep 13 12:59:53 lle2: and if that app uses GUI and hardware keys? Sep 13 13:00:16 jonek, it won't work too well Sep 13 13:00:24 lle2: or audio Sep 13 13:00:38 hi Sep 13 13:00:40 lle2: what does that mean? Sep 13 13:02:06 jonek, it depends on too many things, sb just wants to run dumb configure tests that way, it's all these funny people who think it's an emulator who expect too much from it Sep 13 13:02:42 jonek, qemu system mode is much better at solving the emu problem Sep 13 13:03:18 jonek, i've been trying to get people understand this for years now Sep 13 13:03:38 no success in sight, i'm afraid Sep 13 13:03:53 Is there anykind of thinking about how Maemo is going to cope with or learn from the iphone? Sep 13 13:04:00 yes Sep 13 13:04:01 lle2: ok - should I run my audio+hardwarekeys+GUI app in the PC target (implies I compiled it under that target before) and hope my linux box plays audio, my xephyr shows the GUI and xephyr serves hardware keys then? Sep 13 13:05:43 jonek, hmm, dunno. i would do the development on x86 with no scratchbox, just set LD_LIBRARY_PATH correctly etc Sep 13 13:07:10 jonek, then when it kinda works, cross compile it for maemo. but i'm not an app developer, i don't know why they do their things the way they do Sep 13 13:07:33 to me it all looks highly painful Sep 13 13:09:52 I never compile for x86, just compile for arm and try it on the device Sep 13 13:12:05 that's what i do as well, try to setup debugging on the real hw so easy that it's no issue Sep 13 13:12:50 :-) it seems I've done all my development in scratchbox right only by accident then - seems I havent understood scratchOmagic correctly Sep 13 13:14:01 it always helps to be lucky Sep 13 13:14:36 if i'd have any say we would only hire very lucky people Sep 13 13:15:23 :-D Sep 13 13:16:45 it would be easy to test too, just flip a coin a five times and those who guess right are in Sep 13 13:19:06 ah, but it would be REALLY unlucky to guess right by a total fluke Sep 13 13:19:18 as in, a break with normal luck Sep 13 13:19:44 i have exceptionally good luck, but not at all with computers. some laser printers don't work if i stand too close to them Sep 13 13:20:10 seems to be quite common Sep 13 13:20:51 i think laser printers don't operate when under pressure to perform Sep 13 13:21:29 heh. a friend and i spent all day trying to fix a printer at a non-profit. finally we got it to work, but only when i left the offices Sep 13 13:22:05 I think maemo/scratchbox/PC target is there only for developers to not have to bother with wrong versions of libs but instead have exactly the same environment like in the ARMEL target. Isn't that an emulator then (when running in xephyr)? Sep 13 13:22:35 kind of yes Sep 13 13:23:36 I guess if you're developing a GUI app then being able to run and see if on your PC is easier than copying across, etc. Sep 13 13:23:46 s/if/it Sep 13 13:23:46 just because something's there doesn't make it good though Sep 13 13:24:17 ok => PC target for emulation, ARMEL target just for cross compilation Sep 13 13:24:18 there's no reason that couln't be done without sbox Sep 13 13:24:58 lardman: yep, it should give a speed up - I think that's what emulators a for in your development toolchain Sep 13 13:26:17 the problem with using sb as an emulator is that your emu environment is polluted with all the sbox tools in the path Sep 13 13:27:11 it's really very bad for purity, just witness what it has done to all the rootstraps Sep 13 13:28:49 lle2: for me it has been easy enough with sbox and maemo rootstraps to do development right - I only stumbled over harddisk space once (my root partition was missing 1,5GB of space) Sep 13 13:29:12 ;-) Sep 13 13:29:44 good for you ;) Sep 13 13:29:49 I think it's a tradeoff between easyness and disc space :) Sep 13 13:30:56 does anyone have a snes emulator for their n800? Sep 13 13:31:20 sb2 is easier and infinitely smaller, just too bad maemo is too broken due to sb1's influence at the moment Sep 13 13:31:34 Vertoo: look for Snes9x Sep 13 13:31:42 thx Sep 13 13:31:55 Vertoo: and ask pupnik_ if you want to get involved into something faster. He's working on something much better. Sep 13 13:37:53 lle2: how practical is SB2 for Maemo dev? Anyone actually using it (I know you say you're not an app author). Similarly, AIUI, SB2 will make it easier for me on X86_64 Sep 13 13:39:23 jaffa, not very practical until there's a rootstrap with working dpkg and apt Sep 13 13:40:10 any decade now Sep 13 13:40:13 ..aka if the libraries on the rootstrap are enough for our development purposes, SB2 works for maemo development Sep 13 13:42:00 yeah Sep 13 13:42:15 many things build just fine Sep 13 13:42:37 Jaffa: What's the problem with x86_64? Sep 13 13:43:28 SB1 refuses to work on x86_64 Sep 13 13:43:35 but since all users first want to do apt-get install this-and-that, it's not useful for them Sep 13 13:43:37 Como se llama lo que cubre la pantalla del n800 ? Sep 13 13:43:58 ese pequeño plástico, para que no se raye la pantalla, hay para comprar eso verdad ? Sep 13 13:44:14 zakx: If you don't have any 32bit libs you mean? Sep 13 13:44:21 lardman: yep Sep 13 13:44:39 but IIRC, even with the libs it just won't work Sep 13 13:44:42 zakx: Then again lots of things refuse to work without the 32bit libs, which is why I have them Sep 13 13:44:50 no, it does work Sep 13 13:44:58 I've not had any problems anyway Sep 13 13:45:27 sb1 works on amd64, u just have to force the install of the debs or use the tarballs Sep 13 13:45:46 yes I had to force the install on my Core2 duo Sep 13 13:56:05 I am trying to install libxml v2.6.16 into my Scratchbox environment so I can compile my application to work on a stock Nokia 800; I have tried to pin the package in my /etc/apt/preferences, but I can't find a repository with the package. Can anyone help me? Sep 13 14:06:32 Anyone know of a list of "I can't work out why my compiler is producing an error, try this" answers? Sep 13 14:07:28 as in a list of common mistakes that produce a compiler error that isn't easy to track down Sep 13 14:15:17 rproenca: Sep 13 14:15:19 see you later chaps Sep 13 14:26:10 what is the ".launch" files Sep 13 14:26:23 is there docs on what they are and how to create them? Sep 13 14:26:59 I presume it is used to describe an otherwise command line like process to the menuing system Sep 13 14:27:13 like provide an icon and stuff Sep 13 14:28:17 bherrmann: see the porting guides Sep 13 14:28:27 they describe how to create menu items, icons Sep 13 14:28:36 porting+maemo Sep 13 14:30:40 Hey linux! It's 2007. You might want to look into how to make a clipboard that works. Sep 13 14:31:08 that was not meant seriously Sep 13 14:33:12 * mgedmin wonders what pupnik's problem is Sep 13 14:38:59 specific apps really - vnc, firefox Sep 13 14:39:01 bbl Sep 13 14:43:48 A note to anyone who noticed my previous post, but didn't know the answer: "apt-get upgrade" will *never* remove dependencies; therefore, if you pin a package to an older version you *must* "apt-get install " if there are any dependencies on the current version of the package. Sep 13 14:49:09 GOT my Nokia 770! Truly awesome! Sep 13 14:49:36 I instantly was able to hook up to the net through my phone, but unfortunately it didn't detect my wifi. Sep 13 14:49:46 Are there any special requirements for wifi? Sep 13 14:50:08 You supressing essid? Sep 13 14:50:18 nope Sep 13 14:50:24 or bssid whatever Sep 13 14:50:34 and I see all networks besides mine! Sep 13 14:50:40 hehe Sep 13 14:50:52 hello Sep 13 14:52:13 pupnik: but you haven't told me that Nokia was so awesome ^^ And the default DE is not bad at all, at least at first glance. Sep 13 14:52:33 :) Sep 13 14:53:17 it does rule space and time Sep 13 14:53:44 I just bought a N800 of an internet shop, should have it tomorrow :) Sep 13 14:54:20 any fun/interesting uses for it you can recommend to a long-time linux geek? Sep 13 14:54:56 kismet, irc, torrents, emulators, games Sep 13 14:55:46 mplayer and if you like rich feature media players - canola, kagu, ukmp Sep 13 14:56:25 pupnik: can I manually set up ap properties somewhere? (with GUI) Sep 13 14:56:48 can you get sshfs or similar to work, so I can play media easily without having to copy it to the device? Sep 13 14:56:49 I wonder, maybe it will work if I just pop the right data in. Sep 13 14:57:13 is there a good e-book reader? Sep 13 14:57:21 can you get perl running on it? Sep 13 14:57:23 you can run sshfs, smb and nfs Sep 13 14:58:18 ok Sep 13 14:58:26 I guess nfs would be a bit ligher on cpu usage Sep 13 14:59:33 was a deb every release for wxpython? Sep 13 14:59:55 see a couple of hits for it on google for maemo Sep 13 15:00:02 but no debs Sep 13 15:00:48 i want to compile this app http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=132284 for maemo, and the only dependencie i'm missing is wxpython Sep 13 15:01:54 so does the dependency compile Sep 13 15:01:55 ? Sep 13 15:05:48 no Sep 13 15:06:11 i tried compiling wxpython with the instructions i found online for maemo Sep 13 15:06:20 but is failing. Sep 13 15:06:42 humm. On 2007 HE the osso-statusbar-cpu application doesnt seem to run. Does anyone else have this issue? Sep 13 15:07:01 I need advice on wifi, should I use some specific channel/encyption for 770 to detect it? Sep 13 15:07:33 tunapie should be a nice little app to run. Sep 13 15:07:36 pupnik, porting guides - thanks Sep 13 15:08:31 I'm now trying to manually set up my AP Sep 13 15:08:55 http://n770.herraiz.org/archives/17 <--- has wxpython working, but where is the deb, Sep 13 15:09:05 or the working source file. Sep 13 15:10:09 my N800 has lost its ability to read my 2GB rs-mmc card which was working before. how can I track down where the problem is? the mmc is working in my cardreader on the linux box Sep 13 15:10:31 hm, seems like Nokia supports up to WPA with EAP. Sep 13 15:10:44 wpa2 also RushPL Sep 13 15:13:02 I think the xmame stuff is cool.... the coin-op arcade version of pacman running on the 770 is wack Sep 13 15:14:35 yeah, and we can also try getting a faster xmame ported Sep 13 15:15:16 the nes emulator would be nice if it were a bit different Sep 13 15:15:25 faster and better sound too Sep 13 15:15:30 how different? Sep 13 15:15:40 I added manually my connection and while it is visible in the edit connections page, it is not visible at the page where I can connect. What would be the reason? Sep 13 15:15:52 lo lo :) Sep 13 15:15:56 you should just be able to change the screen to vertical so you can use the buttons instead of the on screen ones Sep 13 15:16:47 only button you can use in an app is the esc (circle arrow) Sep 13 15:17:13 greets Nermal Sep 13 15:17:24 got my n800 :) Sep 13 15:17:46 RushPL: sorry no ideas here Sep 13 15:17:53 http://nermal.org/images/comi-n800.png Sep 13 15:17:56 * Nermal bounces Sep 13 15:18:20 oh damn, it cant be changed so you can use the side buttons? thats kinda lame Sep 13 15:18:36 the buttons on the top could be used Sep 13 15:18:52 hmm, that might not be so bad Sep 13 15:19:22 but you can't press one of them while you have the dpad pressed Sep 13 15:19:37 awww Sep 13 15:19:48 i guess there really isnt a good solution then Sep 13 15:20:58 http://pupnik.de/Nokia970sm4.png this would be what you want Sep 13 15:21:44 Nermal, monkey island on the N800? Sep 13 15:21:53 ohh, that alone makes the purchase worth it Sep 13 15:23:17 see Nokia? people like to play games on their portable devices! Sep 13 15:23:41 don't matter that you call it an 'Internet Tablet' Sep 13 15:23:51 hahaha yeah, i've always wondered why there werent buttons on that side Sep 13 15:24:03 since my other thumb is always right there Sep 13 15:25:11 pupnik: please send that question to maemo-devel.. nobody will see that line on irc Sep 13 15:25:41 the devel guys know i am working on games Sep 13 15:27:12 well. not right now. Sep 13 15:27:59 games aren't that important Sep 13 15:28:17 pupnik: but I short specific mail about the biggest griefs for game developers (lack of buttons, pad) would be usefull to point people to Sep 13 15:28:25 they can be a fun distraction, but no one is buying a device like that because of the games, thats what a DS is for Sep 13 15:28:29 TPC: aye - I was expecting 1 and 2 to work but not 3 - amazing :) Sep 13 15:28:58 it's been discussed on the ITT forums suihkulokki - hardware gripes don't belong on maemo-developers Sep 13 15:29:55 dissapointed skype doesn't support the camera though Sep 13 15:30:00 which muppet thought of that :| Sep 13 15:30:17 skype Sep 13 15:30:35 * Nermal pokes pupnik Sep 13 15:31:14 I'm getting an N800 as a replacement for my palm, which I used as an e-book reader, for quick note taking, and a music/movie player, and occacionally as a larger screen for my digital camera Sep 13 15:31:37 the N800 should be able to handle all of those nicely, I'm especially excited about the high resolution screen Sep 13 15:31:56 i haven't taken my laptop on the go since getting the 770 Sep 13 15:32:00 and the fact that its linux based, so I can play around with my own scripts and things on it when I'm bored Sep 13 15:32:06 the internet part isn't that important Sep 13 15:32:19 anyone got a good maemo port of a snes/gba emulator? Sep 13 15:32:30 altought school campus has free wifi, so I will probably use it occacionally Sep 13 15:32:42 Vertoo: not yet Sep 13 15:33:58 by the way, what architecture is the N800? ARM? Sep 13 15:34:02 aye Sep 13 15:34:08 AFAIK Sep 13 15:34:21 not sure which endian it is though Sep 13 15:34:31 so not sure if standard debian arm packages will work on it Sep 13 15:34:32 very small Sep 13 15:34:41 little endian Sep 13 15:34:52 ah Sep 13 15:34:57 bless it :) Sep 13 15:36:30 according to wikipedia it uses ARM11 which is based on ARM v6 Sep 13 15:36:46 my old pda used a ARM v5 chip, with the same clock frequency as the N800 Sep 13 15:36:51 will be interesting to see the difference Sep 13 15:36:53 Is there a book for nokia 770/800 developers ? or is the wiki/web the only source of info? Sep 13 15:37:33 <||cw> bherrmann: I think it changes too frequently, new features and such, for a book to be much use Sep 13 15:39:49 I suppose so. I guess and pdf content could just be uploaded and printed via lulu.com Sep 13 15:44:59 TPC: what was your old pda? Sep 13 15:46:41 lardman, a palm zire 72 Sep 13 15:47:19 there were some benchmark tests done a while back, and some more recently put up on a wiki - check out the openmoko mailing list Sep 13 15:47:29 ok Sep 13 15:47:47 not sure that was on there, but a variety of modern embedded processors and I added the omap data Sep 13 15:50:06 TPC: http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks Sep 13 15:50:35 yay, I can release the source for the vorbis dsp stuff Sep 13 15:51:14 pupnik: one advice, never set up your AP channel higher than 10, or else your Nokia won't detect it. Sep 13 15:51:55 Unprotected connection worked for me, WPA didn't .. still playing. Sep 13 15:59:51 pupnik: yupi, thanks for giving me mental support. Somehow it works. Sep 13 16:01:43 now I need a bluetooth keyboard Sep 13 16:01:46 anything cheap? :P Sep 13 16:10:40 Does the 800 have usb? no right? Sep 13 16:10:56 That is, it can't do master mode Sep 13 16:12:12 <`0660> it can Sep 13 16:15:33 But it's really hard to get working ;) Sep 13 16:20:54 inz: Has anyone actually got it working on n800 yet? Is it confirmed? Sep 13 16:21:20 Veggen, I think it is known that it's theoretically possible Sep 13 16:21:43 I could use it. Sep 13 16:22:10 but even more, I can't believe noone has made a bluetooth-accesible card-reader thing. Sep 13 16:28:20 but, home. Sep 13 17:04:15 if I want terminal/ssh running really fast with a fresh Nokia, how would I do that? Sep 13 17:04:41 I found downloads on maemo.org, but bash is for example not for download Sep 13 17:07:44 Dont you just add the extras repo Sep 13 17:07:48 then add osso-xterm Sep 13 17:07:54 then you get xterm Sep 13 17:08:15 to get ssh, you need to either add dropbear or openssh Sep 13 17:08:34 please be more specific, I have nokia running for about an hour. Sep 13 17:09:01 should I find repo settings somewhere in config? or maybe I can add them via web browser? Sep 13 17:09:02 maemo.org/downloads Sep 13 17:09:23 You might try looking into http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php for searching on specifics Sep 13 17:09:48 oh sorry, I haven't mentioned, I have 770. Sep 13 17:10:05 or http://maemo.org/community/wiki/applicationrepositories/ Sep 13 17:10:21 yea, or http://maemo-hackers.org/repos/ Sep 13 17:10:33 seems like their are lots of repositories Sep 13 17:10:59 heh, one for every "app" out there, more or less it seems... Sep 13 17:11:08 still, interesting page :D Sep 13 17:11:26 I have a 770 too, but I flashed the Hacker Edition 2007 on it, so usualy im installing n800 stuff Sep 13 17:11:48 or atleast stuff named "bora" Sep 13 17:12:00 i'm gonna do that too, now I am doing testing :) Sep 13 17:13:24 i dont want to go HE unless i know its fully workable so to speak Sep 13 17:14:18 Thats the same reason that I have tried Sardine Sep 13 17:14:59 heh, seafood isnt my thing ;) Sep 13 17:15:48 I meant this Sardine, http://sardine.garage.maemo.org/, although I dont like sea food either Sep 13 17:16:25 sorry, my attempt at a joke Sep 13 17:16:41 oh man, what a logo :D Sep 13 17:16:53 pretty fish Sep 13 17:18:38 hmm, a bit anoying that pidgin isnt updated yet. i keep getting that "new version" window every time i start it Sep 13 17:19:26 btw, anyone had any experience with the freedom universal bluetooth keyboard and the 770? Sep 13 17:26:04 fyi, on 2007 HE the osso-statusbar-cpu wasnt showing up until I went into the "control panel / Navigation / Status bar " and enabled it. Sep 13 17:29:19 anyone got a good snes/gba emulator for the n800? Sep 13 17:41:56 i think there is a gba emulator available, dont know about snes Sep 13 17:50:56 you know the name? Sep 13 17:53:14 hmm, is it me or are some in the industry becoming more humble? Sep 13 17:53:20 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/09/some-lessons-learned-i-hope.html Sep 13 17:54:10 Not sure it's a question of being humble or not, but nice to see that Nokia have listened to us and done something Sep 13 17:55:25 well, they seems to be more able (apt?) to say they where wrong or something like that Sep 13 17:56:55 well, I think they need to focus like a laser on the iphone and continuting to do everything to build a software community Sep 13 17:57:32 I think the HE 2007 is a good move for keeping the community in a happy place Sep 13 17:57:35 well if they fully opend the development, things would be really interesting ;) isnt part of the HE closed? Sep 13 17:58:06 yea, they need to drop the closed stuff too... I should think should be obvious Sep 13 17:58:08 I think they are heading the right way Sep 13 17:58:33 Opera for example... not to pick on them, but they arent the way to harness the community Sep 13 17:58:34 heading yea, but long way to go for some Sep 13 17:59:01 I'm interested in why the Agenda failed, wasnt it all opensource or was it a mix? Sep 13 17:59:19 hmm, opera is a nice and quick browser compared to gecko/mozilla on my 770. but i kinda miss the highlight on clicked links Sep 13 17:59:31 agenda? Sep 13 18:00:12 microb works okay, and it would appear Opera is on the way out wrt the N800/770, so this is again a step in the right direction Sep 13 18:01:01 yep it work ok, but seems to die a lot so far Sep 13 18:01:34 yes, not perfect, but then Opera is still available if you really want it. They are going the right way Sep 13 18:01:36 also, it seems to take longer and longer to start as the page history builds up Sep 13 18:01:50 bug report? Sep 13 18:02:10 allready filed. wanted me to time under different history sizes Sep 13 18:02:26 agenda ... http://agendawiki.com/ Sep 13 18:02:30 hell, i dont think its even noticable on a N800 Sep 13 18:05:54 wondering what happened to webkit maemo port. latest news are atleast month old Sep 13 18:07:12 dont know, but the openmoko/gtk one seems to be doing full steam ahead Sep 13 18:08:00 hmm, thats most definetly the first time i hear about the VR3/agenda, and by the looks of the softfield page, its dead. irda or rs-232? come on! Sep 13 18:08:39 yea... a 200Mhz ARM device running linux... crazy Sep 13 18:08:55 with everything opensource... they were nuts Sep 13 18:09:29 really? Sep 13 18:10:04 I wouldn't mind irda Sep 13 18:10:35 http://alllinuxdevices.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-08-09-007-03-PS-LF-HH Sep 13 18:10:59 back in 2000, usb and wi fi were a little less common Sep 13 18:11:35 yeah, but irda stuff still exists, would be useful to have Sep 13 18:11:43 "A 33.6kb/s modem will be available" the memories! Sep 13 18:12:20 i suspect that it died, not because of the all gpl software, but because of the lack of mindshare... Sep 13 18:13:35 http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS3014149484.html <- check out the part about marketing... Sep 13 18:17:15 Yea, the iphone has some good marketing... and it's a slick product Sep 13 18:18:00 It would be interesting if you could some how tell how much of the product is good "technically" and how much is just robust "marketing" Sep 13 18:18:01 hmm, I can't really see why BSD-style licensed and then modified code can't be released as GPL Sep 13 18:18:06 any thoughts? Sep 13 18:18:18 http://svn.xiph.org/branches/lowmem-branch/Tremor/COPYING for the license Sep 13 18:18:18 bingo, i guess thats why apple gets the press. they know how to play the media. jobs is one of those marketing savants imo Sep 13 18:18:40 oh crap, not that Sep 13 18:19:00 tso: What my question? Sep 13 18:19:01 lets just say that theo is one of the people i want to attach to a russian rocket and aim for pluto Sep 13 18:20:52 btw, anyone seen jobs do a nextstation tv add? hell, i had to pinch myself for not going "hey thats kinda cool"... Sep 13 18:21:04 i installed dropbear but it didn't provide me with ssh command hm, I need only client. Sep 13 18:21:13 (for now) Sep 13 18:21:22 and all he was showing of was how attachments was shown in the mail app Sep 13 18:22:13 heh, allways fun to do replacement of core desktop parts while using it ;) Sep 13 18:23:25 let me see you do that, windows Sep 13 19:06:06 any good ftp for n800 Sep 13 19:07:18 Hello Sep 13 19:07:19 <_Monkey> privet, nisse- Sep 13 19:07:42 I just installed scratchbox Sep 13 19:08:00 and I just installed maemo-sdk Sep 13 19:08:29 in other words I ran maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh Sep 13 19:08:40 and maemo-sdk-install_3.1.sh Sep 13 19:09:32 When I log in to scratchbox and try to download nokia EUSA binaries apt-get fails Sep 13 19:10:33 is the "Python for Maemo tutorial" available as pdf somewhere ? Sep 13 19:13:00 ftp? Sep 13 19:13:20 whats good ftp for n800 Sep 13 19:17:18 maemoftp? Sep 13 19:17:19 <_Monkey> i heard maemoftp was not for n800 Sep 13 19:17:27 :P Sep 13 19:22:29 lo lo Sep 13 19:22:54 trying to set a lock code for my n800 (newly flashed today). tried 12345 but that doesn't work :( Sep 13 19:22:56 any ideas ? Sep 13 19:49:09 kulve: Is this this too late in the evening for you? Sep 13 19:49:28 kulve: You have any experience of struct packing on the dsp? Sep 13 19:50:06 Is it normal to have bunch of 'Failed to fetch'-nessages when I run apt-get update inside scratchbox Sep 13 19:50:24 ? Sep 13 19:50:50 nsswitch? Sep 13 19:50:51 <_Monkey> i heard nsswitch was http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get Sep 13 19:57:51 playing around with claw mail here, and it seems to time out when trying to get my mail :( Sep 13 19:59:42 Is there any other good guides on the net for maemo developing other than the official? Sep 13 20:00:15 nisse-: did you see the nsswitch link? did that fix your apt-get problem? Sep 13 20:02:49 pupnik: Yes, but I did not konw that it was intended for me. Sep 13 20:02:55 But, thanks.. Sep 13 20:02:59 I'll check it out now. Sep 13 20:07:46 nisse-: you want to develop for maemo or port apps? Sep 13 20:08:08 erstazi: Develop maemo Sep 13 20:08:27 pupnik: It seems that it did fix the problem. Sep 13 20:08:35 :) Sep 13 20:09:07 pupnik: Thanks. Sep 13 20:09:14 nisse-: scratchbox is a great application to test your apps Sep 13 20:09:28 scratchbox? Sep 13 20:09:29 <_Monkey> scratchbox is, like, a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development. Homepage: http://www.scratchbox.org/ Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial: http://qurl.org/yN Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial: http://qurl.org/zN A walkthrough for 3.x: http://qurl.org/0O Scratchbox Downloads: http://qurl.org/1O Sep 13 20:10:12 with Xephyr to start a X server emulation of Maemo Sep 13 20:12:40 I've allready got a working sb/Xephyr installation. Sep 13 20:13:16 But thanks for advise Sep 13 20:13:30 So, I if it works on sb it works on maemo? Sep 13 20:15:14 nisse-: if you have your setup correct, yes Sep 13 20:15:24 nisse-: have you ever used a debian-based distro? Sep 13 20:16:00 nisse-: I am assuming so, but anyhow, yes, I usually just scp over to the device Sep 13 20:16:04 any ideas re my unlock code problem ? Sep 13 20:16:08 trying to set a lock code for my n800 (newly flashed today). tried 12345 but that doesn't work :( Sep 13 20:16:24 oh I think the default for that is 123456 Sep 13 20:16:47 I never locked the device, becuase ... i don't leave it lying around! :) Sep 13 20:16:53 pupnik: heh Sep 13 20:17:02 I'm thinking if it gets nicked Sep 13 20:17:11 ah Sep 13 20:17:23 does 123456 work? Sep 13 20:17:38 erstazi: nope :( Sep 13 20:17:52 flashing a new image should reset any code that was on the device before yah ? Sep 13 20:17:58 erstazi: Yes I've used debian ... Sep 13 20:18:00 not sure if there was one - don't think there was Sep 13 20:18:06 erstazi: long time:D Sep 13 20:18:16 Nermal: there is, I am looking Sep 13 20:18:44 thankyou Sep 13 20:20:01 ok on OS2006 (you have OS2007) its 12345 Sep 13 20:20:07 let me check for OS2007 now Sep 13 20:20:14 nisse-: read http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/INSTALL.txt , then http://repository.maemo.org/stable/bora/INSTALL.txt , prefer the installation script method Sep 13 20:20:41 i thought nisse- already had scratchbox set up? Sep 13 20:20:48 Yes, I have one. Sep 13 20:21:22 Nermal: "Everything not on the memory card will be gone and the device will behave as if just purchased with the single exception that any previously-set lock code will be kept and not reset to the factory-default of "12345" (even the code is not preserved on some images)." Sep 13 20:21:37 Nermal: thats if you flash it, which you said you have Sep 13 20:21:59 ugh - so the code stays ? Sep 13 20:22:04 yes Sep 13 20:22:08 bugger Sep 13 20:22:36 Nermal: *or* you can take it to an authorized Nokia support store and have the device unlock Sep 13 20:22:47 or just take out the battery and put the battery back in and turn it back on Sep 13 20:22:57 at least that worked for me on my Nokia 770 Sep 13 20:23:05 hmm Sep 13 20:23:10 * erstazi means the latter Sep 13 20:23:11 will that lose any other info though ? Sep 13 20:23:40 Nermal: the first one will remove all info (except external drives) and the second will lose only data that you did not save Sep 13 20:24:00 like for say you have maemopad open and you didn't save what you typed/tapped Sep 13 20:24:32 I never taken it to an authorized nokia bla bla Sep 13 20:25:17 so removing the battery clears nothing but the code ? that seems a bit strange Sep 13 20:26:00 no no Sep 13 20:26:03 it doesn't reset the code Sep 13 20:26:12 but if you are stuck and cannot get out of the locked setting Sep 13 20:26:19 or maybe I was drunk that night Sep 13 20:26:24 ok, nevermind about the battery part Sep 13 20:26:29 ah - no it's unlocked - but I don't know the code Sep 13 20:26:32 sigh Sep 13 20:26:34 ah! Sep 13 20:26:35 ok Sep 13 20:26:41 12345 is the default Sep 13 20:26:44 so I can't change it Sep 13 20:26:47 that's not workin Sep 13 20:26:49 Nermal: did you buy this off ebay or something? Sep 13 20:27:03 the perils of buying off ebay :D Sep 13 20:27:10 * Nermal messages the seller to ask if he set one Sep 13 20:27:12 contact the buyer and ask them Sep 13 20:27:21 I mean not the buyer but seller Sep 13 20:27:22 I flashed the latest image today but as you said it seems the code remains Sep 13 20:27:36 any lockout for entering the code incorrectly a number of times? Sep 13 20:27:38 My first moments with maemo have been quite nice. Sep 13 20:27:42 * erstazi *was* a seller (not a buyer) for a long time so I think of people as only buyers Sep 13 20:27:43 Thank you guys. Sep 13 20:27:55 nisse-: no prob Sep 13 20:27:59 Nermal: I never experienced it Sep 13 20:28:05 ok Sep 13 20:28:07 but good luck guessing that many combinations! Sep 13 20:28:15 I'll wait for a response and hope he knows Sep 13 20:28:17 lardman: yes, this usually is too late for me (but I read backlogs usually) Sep 13 20:28:19 I don't know the max allowed characters Sep 13 20:28:20 a simple perl script surely ;) Sep 13 20:28:20 perfect, i may have broken a file used to track the status of apt-get, and i cant do anything about it as i need to be root :( Sep 13 20:28:25 about 8 Sep 13 20:28:27 lardman: and no, I don't have a clue about packing.. Sep 13 20:28:31 grr, i dont want to reflash it Sep 13 20:29:03 Nermal: 8 sounds about right, I haven't changed mine in ages Sep 13 20:30:43 tso - yes you can fix dpkg-status Sep 13 20:31:08 thats what i get for never using debian :P Sep 13 20:31:34 /var/lib/dpkg/status and a backup is in status-old Sep 13 20:31:57 problem is that i do not have becomeroot or similar at hand. didnt install it :( Sep 13 20:32:27 can you ssh to the device? ssh root@127.0.0.1? Sep 13 20:32:31 raa Sep 13 20:32:36 maybe it's on another partition Sep 13 20:33:25 not a option either :( Sep 13 20:34:51 will changing the root / user password (because I'm installing sshd) affect anything ? (like gainroot etc) Sep 13 20:38:16 that is unless i can install one of those even if the status is broken :P Sep 13 20:39:14 Nermal: passwords should be set Sep 13 20:39:28 by you Sep 13 20:45:57 hmm, sudo. can one run dpkg-status using sudo? Sep 13 20:48:48 btw: anyone ever tried connecting an external hard drive to the n800 via the USB port? should work, right? Sep 13 20:49:01 (provided the drive has its own battery power supply, etc) Sep 13 20:50:33 kulve: thanks Sep 13 21:00:29 Right, any thoughts on the cause of these compiler errors?: http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/vorbisdec/new/DSP-side/compile_output.txt Sep 13 21:05:53 hum Sep 13 21:06:09 pupnik: just says "the password for the user cannot be changed" Sep 13 21:06:14 doesn't sound like they want me to change it Sep 13 21:07:32 So. Sep 13 21:07:34 Allo allo Sep 13 21:12:32 Nermal: ok ... root is definitely changable. I'll ahve to check into the user pass again so i don't say the wrong thing Sep 13 21:12:35 hi Sep 13 21:13:45 Someone seed the vmware image please/ Sep 13 21:15:33 Is it possible to obtain a struct member's address like so?: &mystruct->somemember Sep 13 21:16:46 * lardman is working out how to swap the endianness of an entire structure Sep 13 21:18:34 Someone seed the vmware image please? Sep 13 21:22:42 Well when you're working with a pointer to a struct, you have to use the -> operator to access any members of the referenced struct. Sep 13 21:22:57 In C. Sep 13 21:23:05 I want the address of the member I'm accessing Sep 13 21:23:28 I know one can use &struct + offsetof() Sep 13 21:23:42 but was just wondering if the other way is possible Sep 13 21:23:49 SOMEONE PLEASE SEED! Sep 13 21:24:02 Deformative: Perhaps no-one has it... Sep 13 21:24:27 I am going to say it anyway. Sep 13 21:24:34 Because I want to develop. Sep 13 21:25:00 Whee, someone showed up. Sep 13 21:25:04 hum Sep 13 21:25:12 would amsn compiled for maemo support the webcam Sep 13 21:25:21 I see a /dev/video0 device :) Sep 13 21:25:49 there's some example code in the wiki to use the webcam Sep 13 21:26:00 ooh Sep 13 22:00:27 Hi, anyone knows of a tablet pc specific channel? Sep 13 22:02:37 preferably a linux centric one Sep 13 22:03:06 Does maemo have a screenshot utility? Sep 13 22:04:48 How to NOT make a Powerpoint: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tGq3tH4qSw Sep 13 22:05:07 Deformative: there is a package that includes it Sep 13 22:05:12 let me check for a second... Sep 13 22:06:14 yes, there's "load-applet" Sep 13 22:06:24 an applet that includes the screenshot option Sep 13 22:06:40 let me see what the repository for it is. Sep 13 22:08:00 ok, so you can go to http://repository.maemo.org mistral free or http://mg.pov.lt bora/user Sep 13 22:08:33 Deformative: do you have any of this repositories in your sources.list? Do you know how to add them? Sep 13 22:09:19 I just got this thing yesterday. Sep 13 22:09:25 oh, ok Sep 13 22:09:36 I haven't done anything except test the pdf viewer and play chess. Sep 13 22:09:37 :D Sep 13 22:09:40 :-D Sep 13 22:09:53 Oh, and I connected to my wifi and viewed my site too Sep 13 22:10:04 you need to add one of those repositories to be able to download it Sep 13 22:10:23 to do that you need to go in Red Pill Mode first Sep 13 22:10:37 What are the good apps to have, and what is the nokia 770 missing? I am a software dev. Sep 13 22:10:47 are you using 770 or 800? Sep 13 22:11:07 770 Sep 13 22:11:10 ok Sep 13 22:11:27 "What are the good apps to have, and what is the nokia 770 missing? I am a software dev." Sep 13 22:11:43 compared to the N800, N770 has MMC cards instead of SD (and just one instead of two), it has no integrated webcam Sep 13 22:12:01 I am speaking software wise. Sep 13 22:12:04 oh Sep 13 22:12:14 let me think... Sep 13 22:13:06 not much: there are a few propietary code apps available on N800 that either aren't on N770 or have a newer version Sep 13 22:13:26 I plan to make a new terminal emulator as well as an IDE. Sep 13 22:13:27 oh, and official images of Nokia IT OS stop at 2006 on the N770 Sep 13 22:13:52 new terminal... what for? (besides "because I can/want/feel like it") Sep 13 22:14:07 there's already two (or perhaps three) xterm implementations available Sep 13 22:14:37 Deformative: I'm not sure about N770, but if it has touchscreen, I'd suggest xournal (should be in the repos I think) Sep 13 22:15:12 gomiam: xterm is horrible. Sep 13 22:15:15 olejorgenb: xournal is more note taking oriented Sep 13 22:15:28 On the other hand, I don't know if the maemo xterm is derived from the origional xterm. Sep 13 22:15:33 Deformative: if you say so. It's working great for me. Sep 13 22:15:35 If it is, then it sucks. Sep 13 22:15:56 gomiam: yeah, he asked what apps was good :) Sep 13 22:16:05 Memory usage for the original xterm is outrageous. Sep 13 22:16:31 * gomiam fires up and xterm in his N800 Sep 13 22:16:37 s/and/an/ Sep 13 22:17:09 two processes, one weighing 328 and the other 8920 Sep 13 22:17:20 yeah, it might be a bit heavy Sep 13 22:17:41 I also plan to fix the default chatting app so that it includes AIM Sep 13 22:18:01 Deformative: you may want to try and install Gaim or Pidgin instead Sep 13 22:18:19 you get a lot more protocols for the same price Sep 13 22:18:35 and once you twiddle a bit the font sizes it's quite handy Sep 13 22:18:57 But more apps. Sep 13 22:19:02 I want to keep it minimal. Sep 13 22:19:30 ok, ok. Just trying to save your time ;-) Sep 13 22:19:41 Hmm. Sep 13 22:19:47 True. Sep 13 22:20:06 I am prolly going to end up hacking the hell out of this thing. Sep 13 22:20:31 and, actually, you can select which protocols you want available (so if you don't want Gadu-Gadu you just don't install the related package) Sep 13 22:21:48 while we are talking about it, I can't find an IDE package through apt-search Sep 13 22:22:21 it may be hidden, in a repository I don't have, or inexistent. Sep 13 22:23:13 Prolly inexistent. Sep 13 22:23:23 Most people develop on their scratchbox Sep 13 22:23:30 oh Sep 13 22:23:37 at least there is gazpacho :-) Sep 13 22:23:48 but that's "just" a GUI builder Sep 13 22:24:02 I knew there was something, even if it is no complete IDE. Sep 13 22:24:12 hmmmm Sep 13 22:24:39 My ide will include a compiler, standard maemo libs, editor, build utility, etc etc Sep 13 22:25:39 well, gcc 4 is there, so are a lot of libs (in devel version), autoconf, automake, vi, nano... Sep 13 22:26:00 unless you want a windowed IDE, you have almost everything there at hand already. Sep 13 22:26:06 I am not talking about C. Sep 13 22:26:15 D Sep 13 22:26:29 mmm... I don't know if D is suported yet :-) Sep 13 22:26:43 I can make it work. Sep 13 22:26:50 But the nokia guys are already working on it. Sep 13 22:27:12 They are like the only major corporation with interest in D. Sep 13 22:27:16 :-) Sep 13 22:28:01 seems the lock code is part of the evil DSME stuff :| Sep 13 22:28:10 I wonder how much nokia would charge to get it reset Sep 13 22:28:24 ? Sep 13 22:28:30 what lock code, what DSME? Sep 13 22:28:35 for my n800 Sep 13 22:28:52 unless I can fake keyboard events to the change code ui Sep 13 22:28:55 and loop it Sep 13 22:30:27 or just not use the lock function Sep 13 22:30:50 true Sep 13 22:32:42 oh, I see, the dsme process Sep 13 22:33:30 Where was the seller, Nermal? Sep 13 22:33:38 State? Sep 13 22:33:38 well Sep 13 22:33:41 heh, day in, day out, I get random ssh connection attempts. Sep 13 22:33:46 * gomiam yawns Sep 13 22:33:46 he said he was going to contact the guy he got it off Sep 13 22:33:54 I have a slut of an n800 it seems :| Sep 13 22:34:05 Sounds stolen. Sep 13 22:34:23 well I can see he bought it off another guy on ebay end of july Sep 13 22:34:30 so maybe he just didn't use it much Sep 13 22:34:35 Ah Sep 13 22:34:45 he's a lecturer at dundee university Sep 13 22:34:48 Nermal: reflash? Sep 13 22:35:01 pupnik: nice guy - said he'd get back to me Sep 13 22:35:10 robtaylor: doesn't reset the code :| Sep 13 22:35:16 it's stored somewhere else :| Sep 13 22:35:51 Nermal: ah, nor flash Sep 13 22:36:04 Nermal: try a cold-flash? Sep 13 22:36:24 oh, you can't do that without seria.. hmm Sep 13 22:36:54 hmm - which means soldering from what I've read Sep 13 22:37:01 I think I'll wait for the guy to get back to me :) Sep 13 22:37:20 Nermal: well, or devising a very clever attachment Sep 13 22:37:24 aye =) Sep 13 22:37:27 pupnik: I hope it's not stolen - that would suck Sep 13 22:37:45 there aren't that many of them around so hopefully it should be ok Sep 13 22:37:59 came with charger, sync lead and everything so should be ok Sep 13 22:38:51 Nermal: maybe he sold it cos he couldn't remember the pin... Sep 13 22:39:01 nah - he never used it Sep 13 22:39:03 >< Sep 13 22:39:11 so assumed it was 12345 Sep 13 22:39:56 * Nermal thinks of some lego and solenoids to try key combinations and a webcam to recognise the next step in the "change dialogue" screen Sep 13 22:42:02 Hmm, lbattraw had a great idea - a "phone home" applet that would ping a server or send an email when online periodically Sep 13 22:43:17 N800 gets stolen, wait a week, get the IP. Warrant, search and hopefully an arrest. Sep 13 22:44:42 yeah Sep 13 22:44:52 Nermal: so the device is locked when you boot it up? Sep 13 22:44:53 hmm.. I think mine is fine :P Sep 13 22:44:56 nope Sep 13 22:44:59 Sounds like it Sep 13 22:45:03 I just can't use the lock function Sep 13 22:45:12 Aahhh Sep 13 22:45:43 I misunderstood how that works. Then it's pretty understandable that previous owners wouldn't have run into that issue Sep 13 22:45:45 but as someone who walks a different route to work depending on where the pan and tilt CCTV cameras are pointing, I doubt I'll be leaving it around with any confidential info on it Sep 13 22:46:02 Heh :) Sep 13 22:46:54 "alguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=68927 Sep 13 22:46:57 sorry Sep 13 22:47:15 "Why are most greeting cards designed to kill a diabetic at 20 paces?" LOL Sep 13 22:48:15 I so have to get the new debugged freeSCI version finished so ppl can play Kings Quest and the seirra games :/ Sep 13 22:56:45 pupnik: ah - you found my online presence ;) Sep 13 23:03:06 yeah nice portapc mk3 case Sep 13 23:03:16 * pupnik struggles with inertia Sep 13 23:07:42 greets unique311 Sep 13 23:08:56 hmmm Sep 13 23:09:11 do you have your client set to greet everyone pupnik? Sep 13 23:09:19 no Sep 13 23:09:25 i just always say hi to you :) Sep 13 23:09:30 well when i'm around Sep 13 23:09:35 ok Sep 13 23:09:52 thats cool of you. Sep 13 23:10:07 got wxpython installed Sep 13 23:10:09 huge Sep 13 23:10:21 now working on tunapie... Sep 13 23:10:38 people making entertaining things for the nokias is a very small club, unique311 Sep 13 23:12:03 yeah, but seen the other day, some dude asked for something to be ported, and got a reply that stated, stop begging and compile it your danm self. Sep 13 23:12:08 which sucks. Sep 13 23:13:16 thank god i know a little about linux, to get apps i want to use going on my N800. Sep 13 23:14:33 but i did manage to compile the application for the guy, but it sucks, so i went on sourceforge and looked for alternatives. Sep 13 23:14:48 found tunapie, and been working on it. Sep 13 23:15:11 Does anyone know what the default "user" password is on a N800 with the latest OS? Sep 13 23:15:45 no password for user Sep 13 23:15:56 root Sep 13 23:16:03 ? Sep 13 23:16:59 hmm Sep 13 23:17:52 is it not possible to ssh into it as "user"? I just tried no password and that didn't work Sep 13 23:18:15 so tunapie is like streamtuner, but with video too? Sep 13 23:27:41 Hmm, the 770 needs erlang Sep 13 23:27:43 And some lisp Sep 13 23:27:51 pupnik: yes Sep 13 23:27:59 it works in scratchbox Sep 13 23:28:12 segfault. Sep 13 23:28:39 segfault is from trying to get listings Sep 13 23:28:53 Deformative, who cares about erlang Sep 13 23:28:56 now haskell would be nice Sep 13 23:28:57 ;P Sep 13 23:29:09 Erlang is pretty great. Sep 13 23:29:13 I hated haskell when I tried it. Sep 13 23:29:34 I am trying to get the nokia guys to hand over the D compiler so that I don't have to do it myself. Sep 13 23:29:44 Not that it would be difficult or anything. Sep 13 23:34:48 So, is there any way to setup more protocols for the default instant messanger without flashing the device? Sep 13 23:58:01 Ugh. Sep 13 23:58:15 Gaim is damn disgusting. Sep 13 23:58:22 The default messanger needs AIM support Sep 13 23:58:30 And IRC support Sep 13 23:59:30 yea Sep 14 00:01:17 Is the default messanger OSS? Sep 14 00:08:15 no but i think it has some api for plugins and all Sep 14 00:08:25 Weird. Sep 14 00:08:29 I expected it to be oss Sep 14 00:08:55 you'll get used to it Sep 14 00:09:33 What else is closed Sep 14 00:09:35 ? Sep 14 00:09:49 I thought the whole os excluding opera was OSS Sep 14 00:10:26 almost all nokia developed apps are not oss, i think Sep 14 00:10:39 most of the key libs are. some of the key libs aren't Sep 14 00:10:59 Weirdd Sep 14 00:11:16 try pidgin btw. it's a glorified gaim but still Sep 14 00:11:37 I have used and hated pidgin on the desktop Sep 14 00:11:49 I want to modify that default chat Sep 14 00:12:26 could use jabber transports and use the aim protocol Sep 14 00:12:37 or irc even. Sep 14 00:12:41 anyone can give me the name of the opera browser in /usr/bin/? Sep 14 00:12:47 osso-browser i think Sep 14 00:12:52 thanks Sep 14 00:13:20 thats not it. Sep 14 00:13:23 i see browser Sep 14 00:13:31 and browser-launch Sep 14 00:13:36 browser.launch Sep 14 00:13:48 but not sure if thats it. Sep 14 00:13:53 How do I find out what is open and what is not? Sep 14 00:13:56 could be file manager Sep 14 00:14:16 unique311: did you try viming the .desktop files Sep 14 00:14:40 sources? they're distributed somewhere but don't honestly remember the url Sep 14 00:15:07 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ Sep 14 00:15:10 there Sep 14 00:15:14 def, no Sep 14 00:16:07 anyway that fills my bihourly quota of answering questions. ask better ones next time :P Sep 14 00:19:05 disq: those are all .bin files Sep 14 00:21:09 It says there was some bug fix for v 3 Sep 14 00:21:17 Hmm, maybe I should update then. Sep 14 00:24:56 well tunapie2 works on the n800 Sep 14 00:25:14 watching E.T Sep 14 00:25:17 There are no sources at the url disq provided Sep 14 00:25:38 nice unique311 Sep 14 00:25:40 too much to get it to work, kinda disappointed. Sep 14 00:26:04 can watch video streams from shoutcast Sep 14 00:27:21 [02:10:37] < Def> I have used and hated pidgin on the desktop Sep 14 00:27:26 use bitlbee Sep 14 00:27:29 going to request it on the maemo.org, add it to the wishlist. Sep 14 00:27:38 from within irssi, that you run within screen Sep 14 00:27:45 on a server that you access from ssh with your device Sep 14 00:27:48 TPC, I use kopete on desktop Sep 14 00:28:15 Where can I get the open source components of the nokia OS? Sep 14 00:28:25 They say it is gpl, but there are no sources, very illegal. Sep 14 00:28:44 Def, if you think saying something is GPL and then not providing sources is illegal you are wrong Sep 14 00:28:53 I am right Sep 14 00:28:56 the GPL only says that they have to provide sources to the people they distribute the binaries to Sep 14 00:28:58 click on "IT OS Sources" Sep 14 00:28:59 not to everyone Sep 14 00:29:02 can't be simpler than that Sep 14 00:29:04 I have binaries. Sep 14 00:29:05 No sources Sep 14 00:29:08 so they could provide it on a CD Sep 14 00:29:08 though asks for mac id etc Sep 14 00:29:18 it also says that they don't have to do a download link or anything Sep 14 00:29:31 in fact, they only have to provide it on a written request, if thats what they want to Sep 14 00:29:33 also try google or reading the irc logs. url at topic. Sep 14 00:29:51 Hmm. Sep 14 00:30:00 It doesn't say what bug was fixed in v3 of os 2006 Sep 14 00:30:13 I remember my n800 having a written offer for source in the back of the user manual. Fully legit. Sep 14 00:30:20 however, I would guess that you can get it somewhere on maemo.org Sep 14 00:30:30 but don't make random statements about the GPL when you don't know how it works Sep 14 00:31:14 TPC, I thought they were not providing the sources. Sep 14 00:31:21 Because I missed the link when I clicked. Sep 14 00:31:24 Hit the one above. Sep 14 00:31:29 And i was like "..wtf" Sep 14 00:31:46 technically they don't have to provide sources unless you make a written request Sep 14 00:31:50 next time you might like to check your facts before calling something illegal activity. Sep 14 00:31:54 so don't go say that they make something illegal, before yo even ask them Sep 14 00:32:05 you* Sep 14 00:32:14 next time you shouldn't go spastic about a simple mistake on IRC. Sep 14 00:32:57 TPC, I understand how gpl works, I just clicked the wrong link, calm down. Sep 14 00:33:05 so anyone who corrects you when you're wrong "goes spastics"? Sep 14 00:33:16 anyway, its late, I'm gonna sleep Sep 14 00:33:35 well, the tone you use on IRC ("very illegal") usually causes a similar tone in response when you're making incorrect statements. Sep 14 00:33:43 Count the amount of times it has been said. Sep 14 00:34:10 and then when someone called you on it, you said "I am right" Sep 14 00:34:16 yes, I rephrased, since I felt I wasn't clear enough the first time Sep 14 00:35:05 and then instead of admitting a mistake, you get your back up and call people spastic. Sep 14 00:35:09 And you still continue Sep 14 00:35:10 Enough. Sep 14 00:35:11 <_Monkey> enough is enough Sep 14 00:38:12 suddenly cut and paste works to/from vncclient! Hahaha insanity. Sep 14 00:39:14 * pupnik awards two points to rwhitby Sep 14 00:46:04 It doesn't say what bug was fixed in v3 of os 2006, does anyone know what bug it was? I am wondering if it is worth the flash. Sep 14 00:53:11 Linux Nokia770-49 2.6.16.27-omap1 Sep 14 00:53:19 did i miss something? newer os2006? Sep 14 00:53:30 Nokia770-49 Sep 14 00:53:56 SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM Sep 14 00:54:08 49 is right Sep 14 00:54:22 I have an older version and I am trying to figure out what bug was fixed. Sep 14 01:15:59 Deformati: I take it you finally got your 770 Sep 14 01:22:09 no reason not to upgrade, Deformati - that I have seen Sep 14 01:23:36 henno, yesterday Sep 14 01:23:41 :) Sep 14 01:27:52 Well, I have work to do. Sep 14 01:27:55 Be back tomorrow Sep 14 01:34:35 Cu Deformati **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Sep 14 02:59:56 2007