**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Sep 23 02:59:56 2007
Sep 23 05:22:51 <pupnik> announcement:  i will NOT be compiling 'liquidwar' on maemo
Sep 23 05:25:34 <pupnik> my observations show that it is better to align
Sep 23 05:25:36 <pupnik> writes on 16-byte boundaries at least on Nokia 770.
Sep 23 05:29:07 <pupnik> Updated: Microsoft said Monday it will take the necessary steps to comply with a European Union ruling after an appeal court gave the software giant a stinging defeat. Now Microsoft will have to share code with rivals to ensure interoperability.
Sep 23 05:29:18 <pupnik> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=6270
Sep 23 05:55:27 <saaib> time for bed
Sep 23 05:55:29 <saaib> gnite
Sep 23 07:33:36 <pupnik> liquidwar built... segfaults on handle_mouse though - looks like liballegro doesn't like the ARM cpu
Sep 23 08:51:31 <pupnik> _Monkey: Nuvie is the Ultima 6 RPG engine http://pupnik.de/nuvie.html http://pupnik.de/nuvie_ultima6_770_1.jpg
Sep 23 08:51:31 <_Monkey> OK, pupnik.
Sep 23 11:48:40 <alterego> Anyone had any problems with scratchbox on debian?
Sep 23 11:48:48 <alterego> Using the deb repository. There's no /scratchbox/login script.
Sep 23 11:50:30 <flip^> i've not even got that far... it just didn't seem to install properly for me, and now i doesn't seem to want to remove or let me add more users
Sep 23 11:52:56 <alterego> Strange .. It's there now O_O
Sep 23 12:33:50 <Molagi> pupnik how did you get that Nuvie to run on 770?
Sep 23 12:39:54 <kpel> hi all
Sep 23 12:46:11 <dorto> Is Nuvie like Nethack? :)
Sep 23 12:48:02 <dorto> OK, Nuvie is the engine. Is Ultima 6 like Nethack?
Sep 23 13:06:02 <Molagi> not really
Sep 23 13:06:22 <Molagi> i think ultima 6 is a lot better
Sep 23 13:09:40 <koos> I've add a mimetype in my aps' .destop file and when I click a link in the browser w/ such a mime, it asks to open it w/ my app but next it says 'Unable to open. File format not supported'. Obviously something is missing, but what?
Sep 23 13:58:34 <toed> vim uses 19mb of disk space? that seems quite high
Sep 23 14:37:27 <lardman> hmm, dspgateway error messages are somewhat terse
Sep 23 14:38:41 <lardman> Anyone remember the chap who was having troubles playing mp3s, he had an error message like this: "omapdsp: tadd address is ABORTADR."
Sep 23 14:46:23 <hozano> Hi Folks. How to run the maemo image-viewer using a specified image as parameter from console?
Sep 23 14:47:26 <lardman> what's the image view binary name?
Sep 23 14:47:57 <hozano> image-viewer
Sep 23 14:49:25 <lardman> hmm, no help output, and if you pass a jpg to it, it just hangs
Sep 23 14:50:18 <lardman> probably need to send it over dbus
Sep 23 14:50:23 <lardman> the path that is
Sep 23 14:51:19 <hozano> maybe.
Sep 23 14:51:20 <_Monkey> maybe is a good idea
Sep 23 14:52:22 <hozano> I am developing a file manager, using python...
Sep 23 14:53:11 <hozano> and I wish to open the selected file in such file manager...
Sep 23 14:53:32 <hozano> The maemo file manager do it...
Sep 23 14:54:10 <lardman> see whether anything passes over dbus when you click on a file in the filemanager then
Sep 23 14:54:38 <hozano> But maemo file manager do not show all system folders.
Sep 23 14:55:24 <hozano> How I do it? It is possible using python?
Sep 23 14:57:28 <lardman> well using dbus is: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-python/doc/tutorial.html
Sep 23 14:57:58 <lardman> and there's a command (binary) which allows you to listen to the messages going across, so you can work out whether this is how to do it
Sep 23 14:58:06 <lardman> but I can't remember the name; anyone else?
Sep 23 14:58:16 <hozano> dbus-monitor
Sep 23 14:58:24 <hozano> i am run it.
Sep 23 14:58:24 <lardman> that's the one
Sep 23 14:59:31 <hozano> When I open a image file from the maemo file manager, the image filename dont is showed in the dbus-monitor lines...
Sep 23 15:02:12 <lardman> hozano: No idea then, sorry
Sep 23 15:03:03 <hozano> lardman: Thanks
Sep 23 15:03:42 <lardman> hozano: Are you sure you're getting all the messages with dbus-monitor? I seem to remember some switches were needed
Sep 23 15:04:59 <hozano> I am not sure.
Sep 23 15:06:12 <lardman> hozano: Just a thought
Sep 23 15:07:19 <lardman> hozano: Try using --system
Sep 23 15:07:41 <lardman> With that I get some dbus output from the filemanager as it starts the image-viewer
Sep 23 15:08:27 <hozano> lardman: no name again...
Sep 23 15:13:09 <hozano> when the image viewer is opened from file manager, this strings are showed in the dbus-monitor:
Sep 23 15:13:13 <hozano> signal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=(null destination) interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameOwnerChanged
Sep 23 15:13:13 <hozano>  string "com.nokia.image_viewer"
Sep 23 15:14:37 <lardman> Well the name need not be sent as an ascii string
Sep 23 15:14:47 <lardman> it could be an object, though why I've no idea
Sep 23 15:15:15 <lardman> but more likely, there's a seperate communication between the filemanager and the image-viewer, you may need to look at the --session switch
Sep 23 15:15:43 <lardman> I'm assuming --system is broadcast to eveyone, but session is private
Sep 23 15:16:44 <hozano> make sense
Sep 23 15:18:48 <hozano> no references to image-viewer and the image name...
Sep 23 15:19:59 <hozano> Only using --system gets references to image-viewer
Sep 23 15:21:13 <lardman> I've no idea how it works the first time, but if the image-view is already open, you get the following using dbus-monitor --session:
Sep 23 15:21:18 <lardman> method call sender=:1.129 -> dest=com.nokia.image_viewer interface=com.nokia.image_viewer; member=mime_open
Sep 23 15:21:18 <lardman>  string "file:///home/user/MyDocs/.images/Humpback_whale_Alaska.jpg"
Sep 23 15:22:48 <hozano> hmm, Then I am running dbus-monitor in another session...
Sep 23 15:33:10 * pupnik sucks at packaging
Sep 23 15:33:44 <pupnik> cheers lardman
Sep 23 15:34:23 <pupnik> dpkg-gencontrol: warning: unknown substitution variable ${source:Version}
Sep 23 15:34:33 <pupnik> this is probably a problem with debhelper 4
Sep 23 15:35:52 <lardman> pupnik: what for?
Sep 23 15:36:23 <pupnik> just a random cheers
Sep 23 15:37:30 <lardman> cheers to you too (I've just opened a beer :)
Sep 23 15:38:04 * lardman hopes that the beer will help him see clearly how to debug his dspgateway issues
Sep 23 15:39:25 <hozano> lardman: Thanks for help me. I am go out. Bye.
Sep 23 15:39:33 <lardman> hozano: np
Sep 23 15:40:22 <hozano> I will open my beer. :)
Sep 23 15:40:29 <lardman> :)
Sep 23 15:43:05 <lardman> aaargh, no way to debug dspgateway loader errors
Sep 23 15:43:12 <lardman> ah, I feel better now
Sep 23 15:43:48 <pupnik> is there a dspgateway guru channel?
Sep 23 15:44:18 <lardman> not sure, I think I'll send an email to the dspgateway-devel list, but I was just trying to figure out any possibilites I'd missed
Sep 23 15:44:49 <lardman> I hope it doesn't come down to needing to patch the kernel
Sep 23 15:45:00 <lardman> to produce more verbose output
Sep 23 15:45:26 <pupnik> yeah
Sep 23 15:46:16 <lardman> I may as well grab the source and see whether I can work out where to add some printks though
Sep 23 15:46:29 <lardman> _Monkey: do you know the url of the maemo source repo?
Sep 23 15:46:30 <_Monkey> lardman: i don't know
Sep 23 15:46:37 <lardman> useful
Sep 23 15:47:03 <pupnik> 823458 Sep 23 16:45 pingus_0.7.1-1_armel.deb \o/
Sep 23 15:48:55 <skibur> ...
Sep 23 15:52:08 <pupnik> still need an elegant solution for installing game data to mmc on package install
Sep 23 15:52:14 <lardman> _Monkey: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/ is where one can download source packages
Sep 23 15:52:15 <_Monkey> OK, lardman.
Sep 23 15:52:44 <lardman> pupnik: preinst script to produce a simlink?
Sep 23 15:53:03 <lardman> can you not write directly to /media/mmcX ?
Sep 23 15:53:13 <pupnik> yes
Sep 23 15:53:23 <pupnik> but user should be notified of this via dialog
Sep 23 15:53:38 <pupnik> and on n800 some might want mmc2 vs mmc1 on the 770
Sep 23 15:53:56 <lardman> how do the Nokia warnings work?
Sep 23 15:53:59 <pupnik> so i can probably handle that with a test
Sep 23 15:54:13 <lardman> licence agreements, etc.
Sep 23 15:54:19 <pupnik> i dunno yet - there's a dialog to choose the menu location, so maybe i can use that
Sep 23 15:54:22 <pupnik> good point
Sep 23 15:54:53 <pupnik> i've just never seen an app that lets user choose installation directory - that would involve invoking a filebrowser in the most generic case
Sep 23 15:54:54 <lardman> it seems to be specific to different packages, so it might be useful
Sep 23 15:55:22 <pupnik> yeah a message dialogue would be sufficient i think - informing and giving the option to abort
Sep 23 16:07:10 <pupnik> pingus: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libX11.so.6: undefined symbol: _XlcI
Sep 23 16:07:20 <pupnik> haha google hasn't seen that before
Sep 23 16:14:58 <saaib> lol... ircing while shopping groceries
Sep 23 16:15:34 <pupnik> ask the grocer to stock Eichten's Hidden Acres string cheese
Sep 23 16:53:00 <pupnik> anyone with a 770 to help test The Mana World build ?
Sep 23 16:53:28 <pupnik> getting connection errors to account server, and would like to see if the problem is local to my device
Sep 23 16:54:17 <solmumaha> sure
Sep 23 16:59:23 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/tmw.html
Sep 23 17:00:25 <pupnik> install the .debs with dpkg -i, then the data file, then the bin file as well
Sep 23 17:00:41 <pupnik> maybe app manager works as well - dunno if i set the section correctly
Sep 23 17:01:10 <pupnik> call me by name if you have a qwuestion - i am chatting in the tmw channel
Sep 23 17:03:33 <pupnik> solmumaha: your testing help would be much appreciated -
Sep 23 17:04:16 <solmumaha> pupnik: ran into some depency-problems
Sep 23 17:04:28 <solmumaha> so i'll need a sec
Sep 23 17:04:47 <pupnik> ok let me know if i forgot to list dependencies
Sep 23 17:10:49 <b0unc3> hi
Sep 23 17:10:50 <_Monkey> hey, b0unc3
Sep 23 17:14:39 <solmumaha> pupnik: what's the binary called? doesn't start from menu and can't find a .desktop file for it
Sep 23 17:16:03 <pupnik> try /usr/games/tmw
Sep 23 17:16:20 <solmumaha> thx
Sep 23 17:18:34 <solmumaha> ah, needs xkbd
Sep 23 17:18:37 <pupnik> if you don't have an existing account - first click on register
Sep 23 17:18:44 <pupnik> yeah i use synergy for kbd
Sep 23 17:25:42 <solmumaha> pupnik: seems to freeze on register
Sep 23 17:28:03 <solmumaha> server itself doesn't seem to be down
Sep 23 17:28:11 <pupnik> yes you should be able to get the updates
Sep 23 17:28:29 <pupnik> but then when connecting to account server it will disconnect then keep waiting
Sep 23 17:28:43 <solmumaha> got the updates yes
Sep 23 17:28:49 <pupnik> [17:01:19.81] Trying to connect to account server...
Sep 23 17:28:49 <pupnik> [17:01:19.81] Username is puptest3
Sep 23 17:28:49 <pupnik> [17:01:19.81] Network::Connecting to server.themanaworld.org:6901
Sep 23 17:28:49 <pupnik> [17:01:19.87] Network::Started session with 81.161.192.4:62746
Sep 23 17:28:50 <pupnik> [17:01:24.69] Disconnected.
Sep 23 17:31:59 <pupnik> thanks solmumaha
Sep 23 17:34:48 <solmumaha> doesn't start with the config.xml from your site
Sep 23 17:41:05 <pupnik> wha?!
Sep 23 17:41:28 <solmumaha> complains about the resolution
Sep 23 17:42:00 <pupnik> dangit -- updated the link
Sep 23 17:42:01 <pupnik> thanks
Sep 23 17:42:05 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/tmw_0.0.23-3_armel.deb
Sep 23 17:46:59 <toed> is there a way to use the cjk handwriting recognition thing without having to switch IM?
Sep 23 17:47:28 <toed> I don't need pinyin input just the h. r.
Sep 23 17:48:39 <solmumaha> pupnik: now xkbd doesn't work :) worked better, but still the account server problem
Sep 23 17:49:08 <pupnik> yes for some reason the n800 tester could connect to account server
Sep 23 17:49:22 <solmumaha> want me to test on n800?
Sep 23 17:49:41 <pupnik> yes!  please
Sep 23 17:49:46 <solmumaha> k
Sep 23 17:50:22 <pupnik> i will need to do a dsniff/tcpdump
Sep 23 17:50:37 <pupnik> but having confirmed problem/success will help very much
Sep 23 17:50:44 <pupnik> as that points then to something specific to 770
Sep 23 17:51:03 <pupnik> but perhaps it is our network/wlan setup
Sep 23 17:51:16 <pupnik> so if it works on your N800, then it is confirmed that it is not the wlan setup
Sep 23 17:51:20 <pupnik> but that it is specific to 770
Sep 23 17:51:27 <pupnik> so the N800 test will be very helpful
Sep 23 17:54:17 <solmumaha> works with n800
Sep 23 17:54:35 <solmumaha> quite nicely too
Sep 23 17:54:51 <pupnik> :)  :/
Sep 23 17:55:32 <solmumaha> but xkbd doesn't seem to work in fullscreen
Sep 23 17:55:38 <pupnik> right
Sep 23 17:56:00 <pupnik> something about the sdl window and focus behavior
Sep 23 17:56:34 <solmumaha> could the connection problem be libsdl-net specific?
Sep 23 17:57:11 <alterego> Ooo .. Where's the package?
Sep 23 17:57:18 <alterego> Is this that MMORPG?
Sep 23 17:57:50 <pupnik> yes solmumaha maybe... i'll try to find a different libsdl-net
Sep 23 17:58:54 <Deformati> tmw = the mana world?
Sep 23 17:59:02 <solmumaha> alterego: my app first ;)
Sep 23 17:59:18 <alterego> I tried your app :P
Sep 23 17:59:22 <alterego> It didn't work :P
Sep 23 17:59:27 <solmumaha> haha
Sep 23 17:59:29 <pupnik> http://pupnik.de/tmw.html alterego
Sep 23 17:59:33 <alterego> I'm working on ruby-libosso now anyway :P
Sep 23 17:59:41 <pupnik> good deal
Sep 23 17:59:52 <Deformati> I thought i saw pupnik somewhere before, I knew you from the mana world.
Sep 23 17:59:53 <Deformati> :D
Sep 23 18:00:13 <alterego> Heh
Sep 23 18:00:16 <alterego> Small world.
Sep 23 18:00:23 <alterego> For people with small devices :)
Sep 23 18:00:36 <Deformati> I have a big device.
Sep 23 18:00:37 <solmumaha> so it's not massive multiplayer...
Sep 23 18:00:37 <Deformati> Kthanks.
Sep 23 18:00:52 <alterego> I like your site pupnik. Though maybe you should make the background image fixed ;)
Sep 23 18:01:47 <pupnik> is the text readable for you?
Sep 23 18:03:01 <pupnik> i don't bother with html much - just whatever i remember from 1996
Sep 23 18:03:19 <alterego> Yeah, I can read the text.
Sep 23 18:04:05 <alterego> Unless you're talking about the text in the background ^_^
Sep 23 18:04:13 <pupnik> mwaha
Sep 23 18:04:43 <pupnik> your right - the software page now scrolls down - it used to fit on the 770 screen :)
Sep 23 18:04:48 <pupnik> 're
Sep 23 18:05:36 <alterego> Ah.
Sep 23 18:06:01 <alterego> I'm not even sure you could call that a hack ;)
Sep 23 18:09:00 <pupnik> ok 'fixed'
Sep 23 18:13:13 <alterego> chinook beta took ages to install :/
Sep 23 18:15:53 <solmumaha> anyone with a linux/freebsd/os x desktop/server willing to test my media transcoding app?
Sep 23 18:17:24 <ericz> what's a2dp?
Sep 23 18:17:24 <_Monkey> it has been said that a2dp is available for N800 with installation instructions here http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8435 or if you want a nice frontend GUI for a2dp after following the instructions on that page, ask trevarthan or disq about Kagu or bluetooth stereo audio.
Sep 23 18:17:49 <ericz> hrm, not on the 770? :-/
Sep 23 18:18:01 <trevarth1n> no, too much CPU usage.
Sep 23 18:18:27 <ericz> ah, stupid useless verizon bluetooth
Sep 23 18:18:34 <pupnik> solmumaha: do i need ruby on the device?
Sep 23 18:18:43 <solmumaha> yes, sry
Sep 23 18:18:57 <solmumaha> but it's worth it ;)
Sep 23 18:19:15 <pupnik> got a link to howto?
Sep 23 18:19:35 <alterego> You need a howto to install Ruby
Sep 23 18:19:37 <alterego> ???
Sep 23 18:19:41 <alterego> Just download the packages man!
Sep 23 18:20:16 <ericz> verizon's bluetooth makin' me crazy
Sep 23 18:20:34 <ericz> anybody got DUN working with it.. without paying for data plan
Sep 23 18:37:12 <alterego> Sod it, I'll just delete the static library in the packaging script ..
Sep 23 18:37:25 <alterego> And man pages ..
Sep 23 18:38:58 <pupnik> heh
Sep 23 18:39:20 <pupnik> heh no configure in vlc-trunk
Sep 23 18:39:24 <alterego> I can't find the --disable-static option ..
Sep 23 18:40:04 <alterego> I wish there was a list of configure options and make file variables ..
Sep 23 18:40:12 <pupnik> ./configure --help ?
Sep 23 18:40:25 <alterego> A more comprehensive list ;)
Sep 23 18:40:36 <alterego> --help is fine for common options but it doesn't have everything.
Sep 23 18:40:53 <pupnik> ok depends on the author if they add the specific options to the --help
Sep 23 18:43:53 <ekim|irc->  Hi
Sep 23 18:44:07 <ekim|irc-> where can I get the tkinter module for python2.5 for maemo ?
Sep 23 18:46:51 <lardman> Right, school-boy question now: where do I find the syslog output on the n800?
Sep 23 18:48:22 <koos> lardman: cat /dev/null
Sep 23 18:48:53 <lardman> :)
Sep 23 18:49:17 <lardman> where's the binary? In the initfs?
Sep 23 18:50:49 <lardman>  /mnt/initfs/sbin/syslogd
Sep 23 18:52:41 <lardman> So dmesg reads the supposed contents of /var/log/messages (or a circular buffer), what file does syslogd create?
Sep 23 18:56:26 <lardman> hmm, I've installed sysklogd
Sep 23 18:56:42 <lardman> I need to log messages created by syslog(LOG_INFO,...)
Sep 23 18:56:46 <lardman> should this work?
Sep 23 18:57:26 <lardman> I probably need to fiddle with the conf file, and then tail some text file to which the data are written
Sep 23 18:57:48 * lardman seems to remember a binary called logread that used a circular buffer rather than a file
Sep 23 19:07:47 <micky_> hi
Sep 23 19:08:01 <micky_> anyone knows where can i buy a n800 in Miami ?
Sep 23 19:08:17 <alterego> nokia.com ?
Sep 23 19:08:19 <alterego> ebay?
Sep 23 19:09:28 <micky_> i'm in a hurry
Sep 23 19:09:39 <micky_> can't wait for the mail :-S
Sep 23 19:10:21 <micky_> I was thinking somewhere i can pick it up
Sep 23 19:10:44 <alterego> O_o
Sep 23 19:11:07 <alterego> Try ringing some places up that you think may have them.
Sep 23 19:11:11 <micky_> thx alterego, I'll keep looking, bestbuy now circuitcity have them in stock
Sep 23 19:11:21 <micky_> nor*
Sep 23 19:24:36 <alterego> Woo .. trimmed off 300K ..
Sep 23 19:43:41 <pupnik> good lord, nothing is running and i have 61MB RAM used and 16MB swap used
Sep 23 19:43:49 <pupnik> can i tell kernel "free up mem please"?
Sep 23 19:44:13 <micky_> pupnik, there's no need to, that's the way linux/unix works
Sep 23 19:44:16 <alterego> restart ? :)
Sep 23 19:44:25 <pupnik> yeah i hear ya
Sep 23 19:45:02 <flip^> given scratchbox hates me, i think i need something new to occupy me and play with on my n800 this evening
Sep 23 19:46:07 <solmumaha> flip^: a media streaming app perhaps? :)
Sep 23 19:46:09 <pupnik> echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
Sep 23 19:48:28 <pupnik> lol @ /proc/sys/vm/swappiness
Sep 23 19:49:14 * flip^ grins at solmumaha
Sep 23 19:56:44 <cosmo> hmm https://maemo.org/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=275
Sep 23 19:57:18 <pupnik> yaay for dpkg-buildpackage -nc
Sep 23 19:59:07 <cosmo> looks like that contains a html file with javascript redirection
Sep 23 20:02:35 <alterego> solmumaha, ruby-dbus package is uploaded.
Sep 23 20:03:04 <solmumaha> k
Sep 23 20:03:58 <alterego> I guess I'm going to have to start consolidating these packages.
Sep 23 20:04:34 <solmumaha> and i need to start reading documentation
Sep 23 20:04:45 <alterego> :)
Sep 23 20:05:21 <alterego> I'm gonna have a little play with the dbus binding for a bit :)
Sep 23 20:05:28 <alterego> See if I can't change the volume ;)
Sep 23 20:10:22 <alterego> solmumaha, you can change the volume using GConf.
Sep 23 20:11:15 <alterego> Which means I can write a nice daemon to counteract the annoyind volume drop when plugging headphones in ..
Sep 23 20:11:17 <hozano> lardman|drink: I got to open maemo image_viewer using d-bus signaling.
Sep 23 20:12:08 <alterego> solmumaha, '/apps/osso/sound/master_volume' is the gconf path. Can be between 0->100
Sep 23 20:12:27 <solmumaha> k, thx
Sep 23 20:13:12 <alterego> Thankfully we have a gconf binding in the gnome2 package :)
Sep 23 20:14:54 <solmumaha> i'll test it
Sep 23 20:15:31 <Thanatermesis> the last firmware looks slow on my n800, like has a "lag" in the responsiveness sometimes, anybody has noticed that ?
Sep 23 20:18:00 <flip^> only after i've been fiddling and experimenting for a while... normal use it seems ok
Sep 23 20:21:20 <pupnik> i hate the way application manager scans subdirs
Sep 23 20:21:44 <pupnik> i click on something while its scanning, and by the time it registers the click, it has changed the icons
Sep 23 20:23:03 <`0660> Thanatermesis, i had it when i used the integrated email client
Sep 23 20:23:07 <pupnik> well it's the file-browser whatever
Sep 23 20:23:17 <pupnik> same thing happens with mplayer when selecting a directory
Sep 23 20:23:29 <alterego> MMC or internal?
Sep 23 20:23:49 <pupnik> both
Sep 23 20:23:56 <Thanatermesis> `0660, just exactly what i have used (and configured from first time) some minutes ago
Sep 23 20:25:29 <pupnik> still compiling vlc, solmumaha :)
Sep 23 20:25:58 <Thanatermesis> `0660, do you know if that app is based on other one or if is made from scratch ?
Sep 23 20:26:29 <`0660> i don't know :/
Sep 23 20:26:56 <`0660> i just switched to use claws mail. it's fast
Sep 23 20:33:51 <alterego> Hmm .. They say gtkhtml is installed .. But I don't believe them.
Sep 23 20:37:38 <solmumaha> alterego: works nicely
Sep 23 20:37:43 <alterego> Cool
Sep 23 20:38:39 <alterego> Any requests after libosso?
Sep 23 20:38:53 <ekim|irc> I have a nokia 770 ... and xchat wont go fullscreen
Sep 23 20:38:56 <ekim|irc> Whats up with that ?
Sep 23 20:39:18 <solmumaha> alterego: xmms2 binds :)
Sep 23 20:39:24 <alterego> O_o
Sep 23 20:39:41 <alterego> Who's going to install xmms2 on a tablet?
Sep 23 20:39:50 <ekim|irc> me
Sep 23 20:39:58 <ekim|irc> is there a package for it ?
Sep 23 20:40:02 <alterego> No
Sep 23 20:40:04 * flip^ stands by irssi over xchat any day ;)
Sep 23 20:40:09 <alterego> Heh
Sep 23 20:40:10 <solmumaha> well not maybe xmms2 but a client
Sep 23 20:40:37 <alterego> A remote control? Or stream?
Sep 23 20:40:45 <alterego> I don't use xmms so I don't really know what you mean :)
Sep 23 20:40:46 <solmumaha> remote
Sep 23 20:40:51 <alterego> Ah, that'd be easy.
Sep 23 20:40:51 <unique311> solmumaha: visualization works?
Sep 23 20:41:03 <alterego> xmms can have keyboard short cuts right?
Sep 23 20:41:10 <solmumaha> xmms2 is basically a server
Sep 23 20:41:16 <alterego> I was thinking of writing a BT HID client :)
Sep 23 20:41:39 <alterego> So you can use the tablets as an input mechanism for a computer with bluetooth.
Sep 23 20:41:51 <solmumaha> that would be nice too
Sep 23 20:42:08 <alterego> Then you could use it with Winamp ;)
Sep 23 20:42:14 <solmumaha> xmms2 is very different from the old xmms
Sep 23 20:42:25 <alterego> I'll have a look at it :)
Sep 23 20:42:36 <alterego> My N800 is my media player now ..
Sep 23 20:42:43 <solmumaha> i have it running on server and i control it via that ajax web client
Sep 23 20:42:54 <alterego> Yeah, that's cool.
Sep 23 20:43:03 <alterego> I liked what you did with that.
Sep 23 20:43:23 <solmumaha> could also make a client for tablet, though it works nicely via opera/microb
Sep 23 20:43:42 <alterego> I think after libosso, I'll start work on the future ruby-maemo
Sep 23 20:43:54 <alterego> I.E. chinook and Ruby 2
Sep 23 20:50:09 <toed> does anyone have a vlc web interface thing that's a bit more tablet-friendly than the default one?
Sep 23 20:51:23 <solmumaha> for transcoding video?
Sep 23 20:51:57 <solmumaha> or as remote control?
Sep 23 20:52:06 <toed> remote control
Sep 23 20:52:29 <solmumaha> ah, dunno then
Sep 23 20:52:41 <toed> I saw your transcoding thing last night
Sep 23 20:52:43 <toed> :)
Sep 23 20:52:44 <MDK> alterego: there are ruby packages for n800, right?
Sep 23 20:52:58 <alterego> MDK, yes.
Sep 23 20:53:02 <alterego> N800 and N770
Sep 23 20:53:10 <alterego> And soon chinook on the N800
Sep 23 20:53:20 <solmumaha> toed: video or audio?
Sep 23 20:54:16 <solmumaha> i have a web interface for xmms2 on linux/freebsd for audio
Sep 23 20:54:24 <solmumaha> works nicely with n800
Sep 23 20:55:34 <toed> video, but what's the difference?
Sep 23 20:55:55 <solmumaha> nm then, xmms2 is for audio only
Sep 23 20:56:15 <pupnik> xmms2 wasn't a trivial build
Sep 23 20:56:30 <toed> ah
Sep 23 20:56:35 <pupnik> none of the media players i tried were 'low hanging fruit'
Sep 23 20:57:06 <unique311> http://woz.org/vids/Woz%20on%20Colbert.mp4
Sep 23 20:57:10 <pupnik> xmms, xmms2, bmp, bmp2, several different versions etc
Sep 23 20:57:11 <unique311> wow check this out.
Sep 23 20:57:14 <unique311> old clip
Sep 23 20:57:35 <unique311> steve woz is a true geek....
Sep 23 20:58:27 <MDK> alterego: it would be cool to provide rails + one of the lightweight servers + integration
Sep 23 20:58:28 <pupnik> unique311: - i got a new pingus build fresh from today's 0.7.1 release - would you be able to try it out on your N800?
Sep 23 20:58:45 <MDK> to be able to run rails applications locally, such as wikis etc.
Sep 23 20:59:00 <MDK> there are some stand-alone interesting rails apps
Sep 23 20:59:03 <unique311> i will..
Sep 23 20:59:18 <unique311> later on probably..when i feel like messing with the n800
Sep 23 20:59:52 <Thanatermesis> what is the better FS to format the MMC card for boot from it ? ext2 ?
Sep 23 21:00:40 <alterego> That's what they recomment Thanatermesis
Sep 23 21:09:28 <pupnik> crap, i can't make a symlink of /usr/share/games to /media/mmc1/share/games because dpkg wants to set perms on the files ther
Sep 23 21:09:49 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: jffs2
Sep 23 21:12:01 <alterego> You should dual book pupnik all the kool kids are doing it :)
Sep 23 21:12:23 <alterego> Hmmm ..
Sep 23 21:13:34 <alterego> There was me thinking that the latest 770 ITOS was mistral, but the SDK is gregale ..
Sep 23 21:14:22 <Deformati> Dual booting into what?
Sep 23 21:14:26 <Deformati> PalmOS?
Sep 23 21:14:50 <alterego> Booting off the MMC, gives you more capacity.
Sep 23 21:15:02 <pupnik> that's kind of painful to watch unique311
Sep 23 21:15:19 <Deformati> alterego: Why?
Sep 23 21:15:33 <alterego> O_O
Sep 23 21:15:38 <alterego> Bigger root partition
Sep 23 21:15:43 <Deformati> So?
Sep 23 21:15:49 <Deformati> Mount the mmc as /usr or something.
Sep 23 21:15:49 <alterego> I've got a 1GB rootfs on my N800
Sep 23 21:15:49 <pupnik> i do dual boot alterego
Sep 23 21:16:02 <Deformati> Why do you need so much space?
Sep 23 21:16:12 <alterego> Why wouldn't I need so much space?
Sep 23 21:16:16 <alterego> Why are you trolling?
Sep 23 21:16:22 <Deformati> I am asking.
Sep 23 21:16:40 <alterego> If you can't see the benifits that's your problem ..
Sep 23 21:16:46 <Deformati> Seems like a lot of people are doing it, and I do not see the benefit.
Sep 23 21:16:54 <alterego> It's safer too.
Sep 23 21:16:57 <Deformati> Howso?
Sep 23 21:17:13 <alterego> I have a small install in flash, so if I break my install I can still use the device.
Sep 23 21:17:26 <pupnik> that's the way to do it
Sep 23 21:17:44 <alterego> You can also install the development rootfs ..
Sep 23 21:17:56 <alterego> Take advantage of cairo and gtk 2.10 etc.
Sep 23 21:18:06 <alterego> It's also quicker.
Sep 23 21:18:14 <alterego> As the filesystem isn't compressed.
Sep 23 21:18:48 <Deformati> Cannot be that much faster, maybe init times, but it needs to be loaded into the ram anyways.
Sep 23 21:18:58 <alterego> Erm .. No
Sep 23 21:19:10 <alterego> Why would it load the rootfs into RAM? That's silly ..
Sep 23 21:19:33 <Deformati> The apps must be loaded into the ram to function.
Sep 23 21:19:34 <Deformati> Well.
Sep 23 21:19:36 <Deformati> I guess not.
Sep 23 21:19:38 <Deformati> But eh.
Sep 23 21:19:40 <Deformati> Whatever.
Sep 23 21:19:40 <_Monkey> whatever is fun for you.  More power to ya
Sep 23 21:19:49 <alterego> Yes Deformati but they don't need to be decompressed everytime they're run.
Sep 23 21:20:15 <alterego> Which they are on a jffs filesystem .. Like that you have in flash.
Sep 23 21:20:16 <Deformati> But then you don't take advantage of your dsp.
Sep 23 21:20:23 <Deformati> The dsp is great for decompression.
Sep 23 21:20:36 <alterego> Heh.
Sep 23 21:21:10 <alterego> I think I'd rather it not be done if it doesn't need to be for better performance. I'm not going to lose sleep over not using the DSP ;)
Sep 23 21:21:56 <Deformati> I guess it would also have lower power consumption if it doesn't have to, but then you have less space for your media.
Sep 23 21:22:11 <alterego> The joys of two SD slots ^_^
Sep 23 21:22:26 <Deformati> 770 doesn't have those.
Sep 23 21:22:31 <alterego> I know.
Sep 23 21:22:35 <alterego> Shame isn't it.
Sep 23 21:22:42 <alterego> I don't use my 770 :P
Sep 23 21:22:54 <alterego> I got it so I could dev for both devices.
Sep 23 21:24:22 <pupnik> i'd like to make <game>-data.deb packages that can install to the mmc or sd card
Sep 23 21:24:52 <alterego> pupnik, should be possible.
Sep 23 21:25:15 <alterego> Edit your debian/rules to install to debian/<PACKAGE>/media/mmcX
Sep 23 21:25:18 <pupnik> yeah as usual nobody has done it yet
Sep 23 21:25:32 <Deformati> alterego: You haven't managed to compile gcc with armel as the target have you?
Sep 23 21:25:32 <pupnik> that errors out - "can't set permissions"
Sep 23 21:25:37 <Deformati> Everyone seems to use the binarys.
Sep 23 21:25:42 <Deformati> binaries
Sep 23 21:25:43 <_Monkey> binaries are usually in /usr/bin
Sep 23 21:25:48 <pupnik> and it's not part of a postinstall script
Sep 23 21:26:04 <pupnik> so maybe i can overwrite the standard package manager behavior
Sep 23 21:26:15 <alterego> Ah yes, it can't set permissions on a directory in fat ..
Sep 23 21:26:46 <alterego> Deformati, I've not. What's wrong with the cs2005 toolchain?
Sep 23 21:27:04 <Deformati> Because I want to enable another language in the compiler collection.
Sep 23 21:27:39 <alterego> Ah,
Sep 23 21:28:16 <alterego> Yeah, gcc isn't very modular :/
Sep 23 21:28:40 <alterego> Hmm ..
Sep 23 21:28:49 <alterego> I'll have a go, what language?
Sep 23 21:29:09 <Deformati> D
Sep 23 21:29:25 <alterego> Wow, D has a gcc mod now?
Sep 23 21:29:31 <alterego> That's cool ..
Sep 23 21:29:35 <Deformati> It has had one for a very long time.
Sep 23 21:29:47 <Deformati> There is work for an llvm frontend as well.
Sep 23 21:29:55 <alterego> I've not seriously looked into D, I thought it was like mono/C# ..
Sep 23 21:30:06 <Deformati> Nope.
Sep 23 21:31:50 <alterego> You should try Ruby :P
Sep 23 21:31:59 <Deformati> I didn't like it when I tried it.
Sep 23 21:32:19 <alterego> What didn't you like about it?
Sep 23 21:32:26 <Deformati> Too slow, ugly syntax.
Sep 23 21:32:38 <alterego> Rubbish
Sep 23 21:32:43 <alterego> Well, except the slow bit ;)
Sep 23 21:32:56 <alterego> I think the syntax is quite beautiful.
Sep 23 21:32:59 <alterego> Because it's so simple.
Sep 23 21:33:06 <Deformati> D has a lot of ruby's features anyways.
Sep 23 21:33:17 <alterego> I guess you're more into your C like syntax.
Sep 23 21:33:22 <Deformati> And D is compiled.
Sep 23 21:33:24 <alterego> Does D have continuations?
Sep 23 21:33:27 <Deformati> Where ruby needs a vm.
Sep 23 21:33:42 <alterego> I don't see how needing a VM is a drawback.
Sep 23 21:33:47 <alterego> It makes it more portable.
Sep 23 21:34:12 <Deformati> Also adds a dependency.
Sep 23 21:34:14 <alterego> Does D have closures? Iterators?
Sep 23 21:34:26 <alterego> Dynamically typed?
Sep 23 21:34:37 <alterego> Is it fully OO?
Sep 23 21:34:38 <Deformati> D doesn't have closures, but it has delegates, nested functions, etc.
Sep 23 21:34:43 <alterego> That last one was a joke :)
Sep 23 21:35:03 <alterego> What's the point in a nested function if you don't have closures?
Sep 23 21:35:07 <alterego> :)
Sep 23 21:35:13 <Deformati> Well.
Sep 23 21:35:28 <Deformati> Closures don't really work with native code.
Sep 23 21:35:50 <alterego> I guess the VM comes in handy then ..
Sep 23 21:36:12 <Deformati> Still slow.
Sep 23 21:36:18 <alterego> Not really.
Sep 23 21:36:27 <alterego> Depends what you're doing.
Sep 23 21:36:39 <Deformati> Cannot really make system code in a vm.
Sep 23 21:36:54 <Thanatermesis> Deformati, but aparently jffs2 is not recommended to use because like is a compressed filesystem, the whole system runs more slow
Sep 23 21:36:56 <Deformati> IE, kernel
Sep 23 21:37:01 <alterego> I'd rather be able to develop quickly than have a slight performance increase. Not to mention I can optimize any part of my code in C if needs be.
Sep 23 21:37:22 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: But you will not reach your write cycles,  and while it is slower, you get more space.
Sep 23 21:37:43 <alterego> You don't get more space if you have a big memory card :)
Sep 23 21:37:49 <Deformati> alterego: You should try D, I develop more quicky in it than any other language.
Sep 23 21:38:08 <alterego> That's because you don't use Ruby :P
Sep 23 21:38:18 <Deformati> Eh.
Sep 23 21:38:33 <alterego> What about introspection?
Sep 23 21:38:43 <Deformati> I don't know your fancy words.
Sep 23 21:38:44 <Deformati> Heh.
Sep 23 21:38:49 <Deformati> Sorry.
Sep 23 21:38:55 <alterego> :)
Sep 23 21:38:55 <Thanatermesis> alterego, what is the development rootfs ?
Sep 23 21:39:13 <alterego> Maemo 4.0 Thanatermesis
Sep 23 21:39:26 <Deformati> I am not going to argue against ruby because I am not familiar with it, just saying, I like D.
Sep 23 21:39:28 <Deformati> :)
Sep 23 21:39:35 <Deformati> I am warming up to erlang too.
Sep 23 21:39:38 <Thanatermesis> Deformati, that toy don't needs to load anything on ram because don't use hard disks :]
Sep 23 21:40:01 <Thanatermesis> well, i mean that the data is stored on electronical devices, not mecanic ones
Sep 23 21:40:14 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: static storage
Sep 23 21:40:23 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: Take advantage of your dsp. :)
Sep 23 21:40:25 <alterego> D just isn't flexible enough for me.
Sep 23 21:40:34 <alterego> I like languages that are like play dough.
Sep 23 21:40:38 <Deformati> alterego: Why not?
Sep 23 21:42:21 <alterego> D does have closures.
Sep 23 21:42:30 <Thanatermesis> alterego, that sounds nice, i want to try that on that n800, but is of my GF, i need a minimum of stability for she, how much stable is 4.0 ? :) like debian unstable ?
Sep 23 21:42:31 <Deformati> Nuh uh.
Sep 23 21:42:42 <Deformati> It has like, half closures.
Sep 23 21:43:05 <alterego> Thanatermesis, it's not stable at all.
Sep 23 21:43:09 <alterego> Stick with 3.2
Sep 23 21:43:20 <Thanatermesis> hurm
Sep 23 21:43:21 <alterego> It doesn't have all the apps either ..
Sep 23 21:43:29 <Deformati> Well, be back later, fooding.
Sep 23 21:43:33 <Thanatermesis> well... maybe i just make dd's of my MMC card to try it :]
Sep 23 21:43:46 <alterego> Urgh .. Class templates ..
Sep 23 21:44:35 <alterego> Doesn't have dynamic class loading ..
Sep 23 21:44:39 <alterego> That's awefull.
Sep 23 21:44:59 <alterego> Yes, definitely not flexible enough for me :P
Sep 23 21:45:53 <Thanatermesis> alterego, what is basically the fast and easy way to compile things ? i want to compile things but i don't to "complicate my life", i don't have much free time to play with this, i just want to make fast compilations :) i don't think that i can do it on a debootstrap of my system correct ? i need to do it on my n800 OR in qemu correct ?
Sep 23 21:45:59 <Deformati> What is dynamic class loading?
Sep 23 21:46:18 <alterego> Thanatermesis, you need to install the SDK.
Sep 23 21:46:44 <alterego> Deformati, if it's what I think it is, it's basically loading a class at runtime, if you need it.
Sep 23 21:46:48 <alterego> But not if you don't.
Sep 23 21:46:58 <Deformati> Well anyways, D has tuples, template mixins,  and a few other cool features.
Sep 23 21:47:12 <alterego> It looks just like C++
Sep 23 21:47:16 <alterego> With a hint of Java.
Sep 23 21:47:19 <Deformati> D has a lot of compile time optimization.
Sep 23 21:47:31 <Deformati> Compile time function evaluation.
Sep 23 21:47:36 <alterego> Great.
Sep 23 21:47:43 <Deformati> alterego: it has a bit of functional programming thrown in.
Sep 23 21:47:51 <alterego> But like I said earlier. Speed is of no concern to me 99.9% of the time.
Sep 23 21:47:53 <Deformati> There is no preprocessor.
Sep 23 21:48:13 <Deformati> Then why do you care about dynamic class loading?
Sep 23 21:48:24 <alterego> So optimizations, compilation to machine code. It's just a waste of time.
Sep 23 21:49:06 <alterego> What has dynamic class loading have to do with speed? It's a feature of dynamic programming. Adapting your program to do something if it needs to be done but not otherwise.
Sep 23 21:49:19 <Deformati> Why?
Sep 23 21:49:28 <Deformati> It will do work for you.
Sep 23 21:49:30 <Deformati> Eh, whatever.
Sep 23 21:49:40 <alterego> It saves memory, or maybe you have several possible classes.
Sep 23 21:49:48 <Deformati> Anyways, you might want to stop in #d, they are much better at comparing languages than I am, I don't know all these fancy terms.
Sep 23 21:49:50 <alterego> And you don't know which one you're going to use until runtime.
Sep 23 21:49:58 <alterego> :)
Sep 23 21:50:10 <alterego> C and Ruby are all I need.
Sep 23 21:50:31 <Deformati> Whatever.
Sep 23 21:50:31 <_Monkey> whatever is fun for you.  More power to ya
Sep 23 21:50:40 <alterego> Heh
Sep 23 21:51:33 <Thanatermesis> aloril, exist a better kernel for my n800 ?
Sep 23 21:51:38 <Thanatermesis> ops, alterego i mean
Sep 23 21:51:56 <alterego> Thanatermesis, just flash the latest IT OS2007 release.
Sep 23 21:52:32 * flip^ decides that debian officially hates him, and no system at his disposal seems to be willing to let him get scratchbox up and running :(
Sep 23 21:52:57 <alterego> flip^, what version of debian and were you using the scratchbox repository?
Sep 23 21:53:18 <cosmo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAsSA7X6ZI0
Sep 23 21:53:23 <alterego> I found it _extremely_ easy to install scratchbox this morning on debian etch using scratchbox.org debian repository.
Sep 23 21:54:03 <pupnik> sidux is the best debian :P
Sep 23 21:54:08 <flip^> alterego: debian stable, up to date... and yeah, i was using the repository. installed fine, it seemed, but just didn't add any users, and now won't let me as it reckons things aren't in the right places
Sep 23 21:54:23 <alterego> Eh?
Sep 23 21:54:33 <alterego> What on earth have you done :P
Sep 23 21:54:51 <alterego> So you ran /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser <username>
Sep 23 21:55:18 <alterego> Sometimes it errors saying something about /proc/net/ipv4 blah blah
Sep 23 21:55:25 <flip^> lol, yeah, and it claims its run_once script hasn't run (even though it's sitting in its renamed _done) place
Sep 23 21:55:36 <alterego> Weird.
Sep 23 21:56:06 <flip^> and if i remove it and put it back on again, even nuking /scratchbox, it just puts itself back in the same state
Sep 23 21:56:16 <flip^> and dpkg-reconfigure just throws other errors
Sep 23 21:56:23 <alterego> Hmmm ..
Sep 23 21:56:38 <Thanatermesis> alterego, i say that because aparently i need a special kernel for USB keyboards support
Sep 23 21:56:45 <flip^> and VMWare seems to hate vista, so i can't get that working either to try from scratch
Sep 23 21:56:52 <alterego> Thanatermesis, not on the N800 you don't.
Sep 23 21:57:02 <alterego> Hahah
Sep 23 21:57:26 <alterego> Hmmm ..
Sep 23 21:57:36 <alterego> What about VMWare Player under debian?
Sep 23 21:57:46 <alterego> Using a maemo SDK root image.
Sep 23 21:58:03 <flip^> hmm, that's an interesting idea
Sep 23 21:58:22 <flip^> actually, i'd not pondered firing up VMWare under debian
Sep 23 21:58:42 <Thanatermesis> alterego, no ? why no ?
Sep 23 21:58:52 <alterego> That would have happened to me after I slapped my fore head for wanting to use Vista :P
Sep 23 21:59:17 * flip^ goes on a mission to kill scratchbox to start from, well, scratch
Sep 23 21:59:25 <alterego> Thanatermesis, oh, you said USB keyboard .. I thought you meant bluetooth ;)
Sep 23 22:00:07 <Thanatermesis> yep, USB keyboard... those are cheap, bluetooth is more beautiful and stuff but... not cheap :/
Sep 23 22:00:15 <alterego> flip^, try dpkg --purge scratchbox-core
Sep 23 22:00:32 <alterego> Thanatermesis, you'll need a special cable too ..
Sep 23 22:01:11 <alterego> There is a how to somewhere around on the web but I can't recall where. Do a search for N800 USB host mode OTG
Sep 23 22:01:14 <Deformati> I have a usb cable working.
Sep 23 22:01:17 <Deformati> And flash drives.
Sep 23 22:01:35 <Deformati> s/cable/keyboard
Sep 23 22:01:37 <Thanatermesis> alterego, I have a female-female cable converter, plugged to the nokia cable one, then i can plug normal usb devices
Sep 23 22:01:48 <alterego> Thanatermesis, that's handy.
Sep 23 22:02:04 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: That is not enough.
Sep 23 22:02:17 <Deformati> You need upstream power.
Sep 23 22:02:19 <Thanatermesis> i need a HUB stuff aparently, no ?
Sep 23 22:02:27 <alterego> Yeah, a powered hub.
Sep 23 22:02:33 <Deformati> That's one way, yes.
Sep 23 22:02:35 <alterego> Depending how much power your keyboard sucks.
Sep 23 22:02:39 <Deformati> No.
Sep 23 22:02:42 <Thanatermesis> the bad thing of this is that's needed a power supply...
Sep 23 22:02:50 <Deformati> alterego: that is incorrect.
Sep 23 22:02:52 <Thanatermesis> we are on a portable device but we depend of a power suply, lol
Sep 23 22:02:56 <alterego> Deformati, no it isn't.
Sep 23 22:03:07 <alterego> Thanatermesis, you can use a battery pack.
Sep 23 22:03:09 <Thanatermesis> maybe solding a battery connector.. :)
Sep 23 22:03:17 <alterego> Yes, exactly.
Sep 23 22:03:20 <Deformati> The nokia will not recognise that there is a usb cable unless it has upstream power.
Sep 23 22:03:26 <Thanatermesis> alterego, a la McGyver ? i have search this device and aparently not exists
Sep 23 22:03:41 <alterego> What device?
Sep 23 22:03:46 <Thanatermesis> Deformati, and just with the cable and the HUB, the keyboard works directly ?
Sep 23 22:03:49 <pupnik> shoulda called it bluetoof
Sep 23 22:03:58 <Thanatermesis> alterego, a HUB with battery's
Sep 23 22:04:08 <alterego> Just buy a small HUB that has a power input, then build a battery pack with the correct connector.
Sep 23 22:04:11 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: it is more complicated than that.
Sep 23 22:04:31 <Deformati> My statements might be 770 only.
Sep 23 22:04:37 <alterego> Deformati, they are.
Sep 23 22:04:48 <alterego> The N800 has full OTG host mode.
Sep 23 22:04:53 <Deformati> the USB chip doesn't seem to turn on unless +5 volts is supplied to the tablet's USB port (just like if it were plugged into a computer.)
Sep 23 22:04:55 <alterego> It is capable of powering a device.
Sep 23 22:05:06 <Thanatermesis> alterego, yeah, not sounds hard... but maybe a little geek for a girl with all those cables solded and floating with super-glue lol
Sep 23 22:05:11 <alterego> Yes, that's how the 770 works ..
Sep 23 22:05:32 <alterego> I don't know how much power these USB keyboards suck.
Sep 23 22:05:39 <Thanatermesis> i don't think that sucks much :)
Sep 23 22:05:40 * Deformati shrugs, well, I got the usb keyboard working on the nokia 770
Sep 23 22:05:45 <alterego> But it's possible you can use one without a powered cable ..
Sep 23 22:05:54 <pupnik> meter in series
Sep 23 22:06:08 <Thanatermesis> but if i plug that powered hub stuff... what' more things is needed ? because i have tried that (with default firmware, now its updated) and the keyboard not has work directly
Sep 23 22:07:26 <Deformati> Thanatermesis: Try typing in xterm
Sep 23 22:07:49 <alterego> https://www.muru.com/linux/n800-usb-host/
Sep 23 22:08:05 <alterego> Try following instructions :P
Sep 23 22:08:33 <Deformati> What processor does n800 have?
Sep 23 22:08:36 <Deformati> Eh, I can wiki it.
Sep 23 22:08:39 <Deformati> Never mind.
Sep 23 22:08:52 <alterego> The same one as in the iPhone :)
Sep 23 22:09:19 <Deformati> That is not a ":)"
Sep 23 22:09:21 <alterego> OMAP1710 I think
Sep 23 22:09:23 * Deformati kicks apple.
Sep 23 22:09:35 <alterego> Oh no, that's the 770
Sep 23 22:09:43 <alterego> OMAP2420
Sep 23 22:09:44 <_Monkey> OMAP2420 is in the N800 ;)
Sep 23 22:09:49 <alterego> Heh
Sep 23 22:10:11 <Deformati> Ah, so very similar.
Sep 23 22:10:25 <Deformati> After the price of n800 drops, I might get one.
Sep 23 22:10:25 <alterego> Not really.
Sep 23 22:10:39 <Deformati> It has a dsp and an arm, that is similar.
Sep 23 22:10:47 <alterego> The 2420 is a fair amount more powerful than the 1710
Sep 23 22:11:03 <alterego> It has accelerated 3D graphics, though there are no drivers for the N800
Sep 23 22:11:10 <alterego> It's a fair amount faster.
Sep 23 22:11:28 <solmumaha> i second that
Sep 23 22:11:31 <alterego> Similar architecture though.
Sep 23 22:11:44 <alterego> Standard TI SoC really ..
Sep 23 22:12:02 <flip^> isn't there something crazy about the n800 screen processing not being able to keep up with the graphics its actually capable of (hence the poor video in general)?
Sep 23 22:12:18 <alterego> What's wrong with the video?
Sep 23 22:12:37 <alterego> mplayer plays videos amazingly.
Sep 23 22:12:55 <flip^> most reviews claim its disappointing... while mplayer does a good job, on some files it stutters a bit in places
Sep 23 22:13:02 <Deformati> Accelerated 3d graphics is interesting.
Sep 23 22:13:13 <Deformati> But, I don't think it will be worth my money.
Sep 23 22:13:14 <Thanatermesis> Deformati, the keyboard not seems to work
Sep 23 22:13:15 <alterego> Deformati, it'd be more interesting if you could use it ;)
Sep 23 22:13:18 <flip^> i can't stream over cifs over wireless ... but i didn't really expect to
Sep 23 22:13:19 <Deformati> In a few years, there will be something new.
Sep 23 22:13:20 <Deformati> :)
Sep 23 22:13:30 <Deformati> alterego: reverse engineer?
Sep 23 22:13:39 <Deformati> Or no drivers period?
Sep 23 22:13:48 <alterego> I was half tempted to do that.
Sep 23 22:14:00 <Deformati> That is very intresting if they made 3d acceleration, but no specification or driver.
Sep 23 22:14:15 <alterego> There are drivers.
Sep 23 22:14:18 <alterego> Just not for the N800
Sep 23 22:14:22 <Deformati> Ah.
Sep 23 22:14:26 <Deformati> Reverse engineer. :)
Sep 23 22:14:46 * Deformati still wants D on his nokia...
Sep 23 22:14:49 <Deformati> T_T
Sep 23 22:14:58 <alterego> Well, Nokia didn't release them. The OMAP2420 has an Imagination technologies compact Open GL capable 3d accelerator
Sep 23 22:15:05 <alterego> Based on PowerVR architecture.
Sep 23 22:15:34 <alterego> There are Linux binary drivers, Nokia use the same chip _with_ drivers in the N95 phone as does Apple in the iPhone (BSD kernel)
Sep 23 22:15:55 <alterego> The N95 is Symbian Series 60.
Sep 23 22:16:06 * flip^ hugs his N95
Sep 23 22:16:21 <alterego> Anyhow, I don't think they wanted to purchase the rights to use the drivers in the N800.
Sep 23 22:16:26 <alterego> Which is a shame.
Sep 23 22:16:32 <Deformati> Then hack the iphone os to work on the nokia?
Sep 23 22:16:33 <flip^> its probably not enough of a money spinner for them
Sep 23 22:16:40 <Deformati> Oh wait.
Sep 23 22:16:46 <Deformati> APPLE CLOSES EVERYTHING.
Sep 23 22:16:47 <Deformati> Duh.
Sep 23 22:16:48 <alterego> Now you're being ridiculous :P
Sep 23 22:16:52 * Deformati kicks apple more.
Sep 23 22:17:13 <Deformati> No, apple pisses me off so much.
Sep 23 22:17:26 <Deformati> They say "Oh we love open source, look how much we use."
Sep 23 22:17:31 <alterego> They barely enter my thoughts :)
Sep 23 22:17:34 <Deformati> "Oh, but you closed it."
Sep 23 22:17:38 <Deformati> "yeah, we know."
Sep 23 22:17:49 <Deformati> "So uh, if you love it, why don't you give back?"
Sep 23 22:17:54 <Deformati> "Give back?"
Sep 23 22:18:26 <flip^> "You open it, so we don't have to"
Sep 23 22:18:36 <alterego> Heh
Sep 23 22:18:55 <Blacksito> buenas tardes
Sep 23 22:19:25 * pupnik agrees with alterego 
Sep 23 22:19:33 <Thanatermesis> alterego, i need to recompile the kernel with those patches for have the USB stuff working ? :/
Sep 23 22:19:36 <alterego> I'm a very sensible lad :)
Sep 23 22:19:40 <Thanatermesis> (not exist any kernel image builded?)
Sep 23 22:19:45 <Deformati> Agree about what?
Sep 23 22:20:06 <alterego> Thanatermesis, possibly. I think there's a repository at Cambridge uni with the kernel images ..
Sep 23 22:20:22 <Thanatermesis> that sounds better... no time to play with those things :P
Sep 23 22:20:52 <alterego> There's a repository page on the wiki.
Sep 23 22:20:55 <alterego> Check it out.
Sep 23 22:21:47 * alterego has finally almost finished setting up his laptop.
Sep 23 22:21:59 <alterego> It's taken me since 10am this morning.
Sep 23 22:22:40 <alterego> That's over 12 hours ..
Sep 23 22:22:42 <alterego> Christ.
Sep 23 22:35:17 <alterego> Right ..
Sep 23 22:35:18 <alterego> So ..
Sep 23 22:35:41 <alterego> libosso bindings ..
Sep 23 22:36:17 <alterego> Then I can start working on other stuff.
Sep 23 22:39:26 <pupnik> holy cow, just saw thoughtfix's tabletblog comparision n800 vs ipod touch ...
Sep 23 22:39:37 <pupnik> tabletblog.com
Sep 23 22:40:13 <pupnik> umm... the N900 needs opengl
Sep 23 22:40:34 <pupnik> there is NO QUESTION now
Sep 23 22:42:09 <Deformati> Has anyone compiled erlang on the nokia?
Sep 23 22:44:46 <Thanatermesis> what is GPE ?
Sep 23 22:45:05 <pupnik> !google GPE
Sep 23 22:47:19 <alterego> GPE is an environment kind of like Maemo
Sep 23 22:47:29 <alterego> Well, actually it's just the "desktop" environment.
Sep 23 22:47:39 <alterego> Where as Maemo is a complete linux distro.
Sep 23 22:49:15 <Blacksito> ~ $ sudo su -
Sep 23 22:49:45 <Blacksito> sudo: unable to lookup BlackTux via gethostbyname()
Sep 23 22:50:12 <Blacksito> help
Sep 23 22:50:41 <alterego> sudo su wont work Blacksito.
Sep 23 22:51:13 <alterego> If you want root you'll have to either activate r&d mode or use the gainroot package.
Sep 23 22:51:22 <alterego> Or whatever it's called ..
Sep 23 22:53:46 <pupnik> gainroot?
Sep 23 22:53:47 <_Monkey> rumour has it gainroot is the crutch of the feeble mind
Sep 23 22:53:54 <pupnik> who deleted gainroot
Sep 23 22:53:56 <pupnik> fecker
Sep 23 22:54:11 <alterego> sudo gainroot only wors in r&d mode.
Sep 23 22:54:15 <alterego> ~works
Sep 23 22:54:16 <infobot> somebody said works was something I do
Sep 23 22:54:18 <pupnik> wrong
Sep 23 22:54:25 <alterego> Really?
Sep 23 22:54:36 * alterego wonders why he bothered with r&d mode ..
Sep 23 22:54:53 <pupnik> rnd mode is useful if you want to install libraries from the application manager
Sep 23 22:54:56 <alterego> I thought you had to use r&d to get gainroot or download that other root obtaining pckage.
Sep 23 22:55:06 <pupnik> other than that, i know of no end-user use for rnd mode
Sep 23 22:55:10 <alterego> Ah yes. The red pill mode.
Sep 23 22:58:14 <pupnik> becomeroot?
Sep 23 22:58:15 <_Monkey> becomeroot is a quick howto to become root here http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot  and more information is here http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot
Sep 23 22:59:08 <pupnik> oh it was becomeroot - sry nm
Sep 23 22:59:11 <Blacksito> my osso-application-installer its broken :(
Sep 23 22:59:59 <Blacksito> I, enabled the red pill mode
Sep 23 23:05:33 <pupnik> sorry to heer it Blacksito
Sep 23 23:05:36 <pupnik> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/usr/lib/vlc/visualization/libxosd_plugin.so': No such file or directory
Sep 23 23:05:39 <pupnik> blagh
Sep 23 23:05:40 <Thanatermesis> hum... exist a lot more of variety of packages for mistral than bora :/
Sep 23 23:06:44 <pupnik> some of them will run on Bora
Sep 23 23:06:48 <pupnik> maybe most
Sep 23 23:18:46 <Thanatermesis> what's the better IRC client to use ?
Sep 23 23:20:41 <alterego> Pidgin is pretty good.
Sep 23 23:37:12 <Deformati> What filesystem is best for a mmc card with mostly media on it?
Sep 23 23:54:34 <alterego> vfat
Sep 23 23:55:39 <Deformati> Erm.
Sep 23 23:55:42 <Deformati> I doubt that.
Sep 23 23:56:21 <Deformati> Oh, by the way alterego, dunno if you would be interested in this or not, but are definite plans for lisp ast macros in D.
Sep 23 23:56:29 <Deformati> Maybe xfs,  why vfat?
Sep 23 23:56:36 <pupnik> http://cgi.ebay.de/CECT-A816-3-5inch-TouchScreen-psp-3D-game-solar-charger_W0QQitemZ200154053559QQihZ010QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Sep 23 23:56:42 <alterego> Accessible from everything.
Sep 23 23:56:49 <Deformati> And I was wondering, how doesn't the swapspace on the mmc card not reach it's write cycles?
Sep 23 23:56:56 <pupnik> crazy device - phone with 3.5" touchscreen and playstation/nes emulator and gaming controls
Sep 23 23:57:14 <Deformati> But I don't have any other devices that need rs-mmc cards
Sep 24 00:03:31 <pupnik> amazing that the chinese can build such a thing and then do nothing in the software / promotion / distribution department
Sep 24 00:06:02 <erstazi> Deformati: nokia has always used (rs)-mmc
Sep 24 00:06:20 <Deformati> Erm.
Sep 24 00:06:22 <Deformati> What?
Sep 24 00:06:35 <erstazi> Deformati: nevermind, just tired here
Sep 24 00:06:56 <erstazi> pupnik: what is amazing is that China doesn't use open source more
Sep 24 00:09:25 <pupnik> i wonder if they did for those emulators
Sep 24 00:21:57 <alterego> Well, there's more of them. You'd think that they use it more ;)
Sep 24 00:23:04 <pupnik> http://youtube.com/watch?v=ate1jmWDwaE  there's a video of the A816
Sep 24 00:30:20 <pupnik> those guys are hilarious... copying the playstation and windows logos right on their devices
Sep 24 01:18:43 <unique311> pupnik, so its ok to bootleg something in china
Sep 24 01:18:44 <unique311> ?
Sep 24 01:23:47 <pupnik> i duno
Sep 24 01:23:58 <pupnik> they seem to be kind of the 'wild west' of capitalism
Sep 24 01:24:26 <pupnik> nice controls on that phone though, and it's freakin cheaper than a gp2x
Sep 24 01:26:30 <unique311> its a modified psp
Sep 24 01:26:49 <pupnik> where did you get this info?
Sep 24 01:29:31 <unique311> it looks like a psp..
Sep 24 01:29:33 <unique311> lol
Sep 24 01:29:50 <unique311> you ever seen a psp pupnik?
Sep 24 01:30:31 <unique311> thats a psp with lots of buttons.
Sep 24 01:39:34 <pupnik> sorry i misunderstood you
Sep 24 01:40:56 <pupnik> iif it were hackable at all, i'd be real tempted
Sep 24 01:41:04 <pupnik> 130 euro is chump change
Sep 24 01:44:03 * pupnik needs better sounds for xu4
Sep 24 01:49:52 <BuckWilder> umm
Sep 24 01:50:07 <BuckWilder> this might be a common problem, but I'm unable to find anything on google to get this thing to work
Sep 24 01:50:18 <BuckWilder> I'm trying to install the ncurses-bin package and it breaks somewhere
Sep 24 01:50:50 <BuckWilder> I'm trying to install it because it's part of gstreamer-extra-plugins or something, which I need to use the tuner tool
Sep 24 01:51:10 <BuckWilder> but the install keeps failing, something about usr/bin/clear
Sep 24 01:51:58 <pupnik> look at the log in application manager
Sep 24 01:52:27 <BuckWilder> I'm doing it from ssh
Sep 24 01:53:32 <pupnik> ah then you have an error
Sep 24 01:55:59 <pupnik> do you want to tell me what the error is?
Sep 24 01:57:38 <alterego> Goodnight
Sep 24 01:57:42 <pupnik> cu
Sep 24 01:57:56 <BuckWilder> yeah, one second
Sep 24 01:58:32 <jumpula> probably some of the core packages that have been technically provided, have not been provided completely
Sep 24 01:58:34 <BuckWilder> it's trying to rename /usr/bin/clear and failing
Sep 24 01:58:44 <jumpula> eg. a missing binary or something
Sep 24 01:58:56 <jumpula> postinst uses something which doesn't exist
Sep 24 01:58:59 <BuckWilder> mv: cannot rename '/usr/bin/clear': No such file or directory
Sep 24 01:59:13 <BuckWilder>  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/clear', which is also in package busybox
Sep 24 01:59:36 <jumpula> ah. so, busybox offers clear and some other package is trying to offer it as wel..
Sep 24 01:59:40 <jumpula> well
Sep 24 02:00:10 <pupnik> it is possible to overwrite with dpkg -i <package> --force-overwrite
Sep 24 02:00:21 <pupnik> not sure if that is advisable though
Sep 24 02:00:33 <BuckWilder> yeah, wouldn't that screw up the stuff that uses busybox?
Sep 24 02:01:19 <pupnik> seems to me the ncurses-bin that is being installed is not properly configured for your system (bora)
Sep 24 02:01:25 <jumpula> you can remove the link manually and try installing after that
Sep 24 02:01:29 <pupnik> i have ncurses-bin installed and it did not conflict with busybox
Sep 24 02:01:37 <pupnik> good call jumpula
Sep 24 02:01:39 <jumpula> or try making a diversion
Sep 24 02:02:01 <BuckWilder> okay, how do I do that then?
Sep 24 02:02:12 <BuckWilder> I'm somewhat of a linux amateur
Sep 24 02:02:15 <jumpula> if something goes bad, you can always restore the symlink by hand _)
Sep 24 02:02:19 <jumpula> :)
Sep 24 02:03:22 <pupnik> to rename clear, mv /usr/bin/clear /usr/bin/clear-old  (as root)
Sep 24 02:04:00 <BuckWilder> mv: cannot rename '/usr/bin/clear': No such file or directory
Sep 24 02:04:28 <BuckWilder> so supposedly busybox supplies clear but it isn't actually supplying clear?
Sep 24 02:05:54 <BuckWilder> there's a busybox.clear in /usr/bin/
Sep 24 02:05:58 <BuckWilder> no actual clear tho
Sep 24 02:07:01 <pupnik> i don't have a N800 so i can't give you precise help
Sep 24 02:07:32 <pupnik> apparently you are correct
Sep 24 02:07:52 <pupnik> so if there's no /usr/bin/clear, and the ncurses-bin expects a clear to rename, it fails
Sep 24 02:08:00 <pupnik> so you could create a fake 'clear' in /usr/bin
Sep 24 02:08:02 <pupnik> by typing
Sep 24 02:08:06 <pupnik> touch /usr/bin/clear
Sep 24 02:08:15 <pupnik> that would create an empty file in /usr/bin
Sep 24 02:08:27 <pupnik> then the ncurses-bin install would rename that and possibly proceed
Sep 24 02:08:45 <pupnik> but there's something odd about the situation
Sep 24 02:09:07 <pupnik> maybe the ncurses-bin is expecting a different version of busybox?
Sep 24 02:09:20 <pupnik> if so you could also try upgrading busybox with
Sep 24 02:09:46 <pupnik> apt-get update && apt-get install busybox
Sep 24 02:10:04 <BuckWilder> okay, thanks, I'm running the update now
Sep 24 02:11:23 <BuckWilder> W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com bora Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG CBFC2BECC6903E72 Nokia Internet Tablet Archive Automatic Signing Key <integration@maemo.org>
Sep 24 02:11:31 <BuckWilder> that's at the tail of the update
Sep 24 02:11:37 <BuckWilder> should I be running the factory installed OS?
Sep 24 02:11:47 <BuckWilder> cuz I haven't ever re-flashed it or anything
Sep 24 02:12:48 <pupnik> i wouldn't worry about a bad signature
Sep 24 02:12:55 <pupnik> did it upgrade busybox?
Sep 24 02:13:10 <pupnik> rather, did you apt-get install busybox?
Sep 24 02:13:15 <unique311> BuckWilder: i had the same issue with ncurse-bin
Sep 24 02:13:16 <BuckWilder> said busybox was latest version
Sep 24 02:13:27 <pupnik> ok - what's the solution unique311 ?
Sep 24 02:13:31 <unique311> found the fix on a russian site
Sep 24 02:13:36 <unique311> check the logs
Sep 24 02:13:56 <unique311> google search unique311 ncurses-bin irc
Sep 24 02:14:10 <unique311> the link to the site should be in the logs..
Sep 24 02:14:29 <BuckWilder> hmm
Sep 24 02:14:37 <BuckWilder> ok
Sep 24 02:14:37 <unique311> i remember this, because it broke dpkg..
Sep 24 02:14:58 <unique311> i'll search for it for ya..
Sep 24 02:15:00 <unique311> give me a sec
Sep 24 02:15:33 <BuckWilder> I'm able to remove the crappily installed package using the command in the logs, I found that online before I got here
Sep 24 02:15:38 <BuckWilder> but I still can't get it to install
Sep 24 02:17:28 <unique311> i didn't bother trying to install it after i fixed what it did to dpkg.
Sep 24 02:18:21 <BuckWilder> it's a dependency in a lot of things tho
Sep 24 02:18:33 <BuckWilder> has anyone got it to successfully install?
Sep 24 02:19:52 <BuckWilder> it could be pulling from the wrong repository couldn't it?
Sep 24 02:20:16 <BuckWilder> what repository do people usually install ncurses-bin from?
Sep 24 02:24:53 <BuckWilder> ok
Sep 24 02:24:59 <BuckWilder> nm, I didn't need it anyway
Sep 24 02:25:19 <BuckWilder> thought I did just because it was whining, it probably tried to install it earlier, failed and was complaining about the earlier failure
Sep 24 02:25:23 <pupnik> vi is so cool
Sep 24 02:32:51 <BuckWilder> has anyone gotten that iphone keyboard to work at all?
Sep 24 02:32:55 <BuckWilder> that looked interesting
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Sep 24 02:59:57 2007