**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 18 02:59:57 2007 Oct 18 03:02:37 Yes, thanks very much tb0n3 Oct 18 03:02:46 :D Oct 18 03:02:59 My friend just got a 770 or something and now he has me all interested ;) Oct 18 03:03:19 It would be nice though if I didn't have to have this and a phone in my pocket. Oct 18 03:03:20 ;P Oct 18 03:09:25 thanks to ssvb's awesome work on mplayer, the 770 really shows off what a 225mhz arm9 can do Oct 18 03:09:47 What's the optimal for the 770? Oct 18 03:10:23 i usually encode to xvid at around 700kb/s, 400x240 Oct 18 03:10:50 great results at around 300MB/movie Oct 18 03:11:53 Got 2 770 lying around, so encoding stuff that would work on them as well as the N800 wouldn't be bad. Oct 18 03:16:20 pupnik wow Oct 18 03:17:22 xvid codec does a great job of smoothing out unimportant detail/noise Oct 18 03:18:01 add a 3d denoise filter, crank down audio to 64kb/s mono Oct 18 03:27:13 for some reason mplayer stopped working at all on my 770 OS2007he Oct 18 03:28:48 pupnik: What's your video source and what do you use to encode? Oct 18 03:29:26 <|R> is anybody here using skype? is it possible to find someone's username by his email? Oct 18 03:29:49 <|R> (yes i forgot my username i created at random on the n800 and thus i can't get my pass back as they ask for stupid informations...) Oct 18 03:30:11 straind: mencoder to encode Oct 18 03:37:30 I'm currently transcoding on my myth box (nuv -> xvid) to see how your suggestions look. :) Oct 18 03:37:34 anyone know what the going price is for an n800 on ebay? I see them at about $250, I'm wondering if it is high since the 810 was just released right? Oct 18 03:37:49 tdb30__: Used or new? Oct 18 03:38:11 since buy.com has new n800s for $240... Oct 18 03:38:25 http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n800-internet-tablet/q/loc/101/204055141.html Oct 18 03:38:48 so $300 for a new one is WAY overpriced. Oct 18 03:39:33 buy.com includes shipping, but probably only to the us, not sure how much intl costs :) Oct 18 03:39:53 I'm in the us, so no problem there. Oct 18 03:44:31 can't get a 770 for $240 in germany Oct 18 03:46:32 * sxpert will skip the 800 and go straight for the 810 Oct 18 03:47:04 the integrated GPS and keyboard will make it a perfect surveying station Oct 18 03:48:06 can maemomapper show map data without a cellfone/gprs connection? Oct 18 03:48:51 pupnik, as long as you have that part of the map in cache Oct 18 03:48:52 If you have the maps saved, sure. Oct 18 03:48:56 ok Oct 18 03:50:09 * |R wonders if this n810 will eat into OQO's market... Oct 18 03:52:45 i'm really hoping it will become a strong alternative to windows pdas Oct 18 03:53:55 at least for ppl not totally locked-into outlook Oct 18 03:54:40 i dunno and the games of course Oct 18 04:01:22 <|R> yeah, as long as FOSS wins, i'm happy Oct 18 04:12:45 |R: support prosecution of warez :P Oct 18 04:15:02 <|R> pupnik : i do ;) Oct 18 04:15:12 <|R> well , not really but ... hehe Oct 18 04:15:17 <|R> i don't use them :) Oct 18 04:15:26 <|R> (mostly , what does vrms say...) Oct 18 04:15:48 i helped clamp down on warez at two workplaces Oct 18 04:15:55 and promoted linux of course Oct 18 04:15:57 <|R> nvidia-drivers, java (which is GPLed now) and fonts... oh and unrar :P Oct 18 04:16:06 <|R> hehe yeah :) Oct 18 04:16:16 <|R> I wouldn't go after persons, but corps, yeah sure Oct 18 04:16:57 i understand Oct 18 04:17:14 but one thing to realize is that the kids fail to see the benefits of OSS Oct 18 04:17:21 because everything's free to them anyway Oct 18 04:17:59 <|R> They don't understand the format / carrier problem Oct 18 04:18:11 <|R> giving control over the format and where it goes and how it is filtered... Oct 18 04:18:21 That too. Oct 18 04:18:40 I tell them "if you had to pay for all your windoze wares, you wouldn't think windows was so hot." Oct 18 04:18:51 mornink Oct 18 04:18:54 <|R> in the end is even more important then what apps you used to generate it... most people aren't coders, so telling them they chan change it and that at first it doesn't work isn't the best aproach Oct 18 04:19:03 True Oct 18 04:19:17 <|R> chan/can Oct 18 04:19:55 <|R> i always tell about MSN as an opener, and how M$ can decice to censor words, and how the internet is becoming a vital democratic dialog/platform.... and 1+1 = 0 ... Oct 18 04:20:00 <|R> hehe Oct 18 04:20:13 <|R> but i guess you just can't push it onto people... Oct 18 04:20:19 <|R> you have to let them hang themselfs ;) Oct 18 04:21:01 * |R wonders if an rtcomm for 3.2 will be released which fixes the tunnel problem... Oct 18 04:21:33 when the internet was new, microsoft tried to prevent adoption of TCP/IP Oct 18 04:22:32 JR: I doubt we'll see a new beta of RTCOMM until the version released with Chinook. Oct 18 04:22:37 <|R> everyone tried and, fortunately, failed ! ... i'm afraid now though by services like google, having huge datacenters that do everything in a centralized way... web 2.0 is a crappy catch words wich hide centralization behin a social mass... it's not p2p damn it, it's central control Oct 18 04:23:10 <|R> I hope google is not turning the net into AOL 2.0 Oct 18 04:23:13 given that chinook is probably at most a few weeks away, yes, everyone should be busy worrying about it Oct 18 04:23:14 hah Oct 18 04:23:22 heh timeless Oct 18 04:23:26 we are.. Oct 18 04:23:41 <|R> :) Oct 18 04:23:48 timeless, you don't sleep ever, do you? :-) Oct 18 04:24:00 something like that Oct 18 04:24:21 <|R> pupnik : what do you think about the OpenMoko? The n810? How open those platform are and relate? Oct 18 04:25:13 i like em both Oct 18 04:25:54 * |R is really hoping for a foture of distributed/decentralized networks at every OSI level... Oct 18 04:26:11 nokia's approach helps them produce things on-time better :P moko has done good work so far but is moving a bit slow Oct 18 04:26:12 even 4, 5 and 6? that would be scary Oct 18 04:26:13 <|R> including layer >:] Oct 18 04:26:20 hmm Oct 18 04:27:26 agree in principle Oct 18 04:27:29 <|R> well, maybe not 4-5-6 in the full OSI model ... evne though we could think about it ;) Oct 18 04:27:57 you'd have to come up with a DNS replacement first though Oct 18 04:27:57 <|R> OSI is bloated... let's keep to a stack 4 layer high :P Oct 18 04:28:10 <|R> yeah, DNS is a pain and must be killed Oct 18 04:28:18 raw IPv6 ftw. Oct 18 04:28:21 <|R> but the Web is the biggest pain, everyone is building upon the browser Oct 18 04:28:35 <|R> it's the new OS in the OS... we don't exploit p2p enough, like they do in china it seems Oct 18 04:29:00 <|R> they don't have stupid laws blocking p2p just because... and apparently the market is flourishing fast... i wonder if the next big thing will come from asia Oct 18 04:29:42 <|R> http://guerillartivism.net/node/24 Oct 18 04:29:44 you might be interested in 'increasing returns' 'path dependence' with relation to technology standards Oct 18 04:29:57 I don't think anyone is blocking p2p per se. it's distributing copyrighted content without permission which is the problem. Oct 18 04:29:59 <|R> i was trying to amass links there to technologies, research and ideas about distributed systems (in a somewhat applied way) Oct 18 04:30:24 that's a bit abstract to my viewpoint Oct 18 04:30:33 <|R> czr : i know, but they are cracking down on networks, not filesharers Oct 18 04:30:45 <|R> kill kazaa! kill amule! not kill madonna cds ... :( Oct 18 04:31:06 |R, depends on the country I guess. sure ISP do bandwidth throttling at least over here, but it's not all too aggressive Oct 18 04:31:10 publicdomaintorrents.com is up Oct 18 04:31:42 <|R> czr : where is here? :) Oct 18 04:31:51 where I am, obviously. :-) Oct 18 04:32:00 finland atm. Oct 18 04:32:02 <|R> czr : here in montreal (canada) it's getting harder and harder to get an ISP without a cap, ridiculous prices etc Oct 18 04:32:22 ah, wasn't aware of that. maybe they just want to cash in on the extra traffic Oct 18 04:32:32 ISPs are like that. they want to make money. Oct 18 04:32:33 <|R> the 2 main corps are putting out pricier services with slower bandwith every day :( Oct 18 04:32:58 * timeless sghs Oct 18 04:32:59 <|R> it's bascailly the old national bell corp agains the big provincial cable Oct 18 04:33:03 anyone here speak russian? Oct 18 04:33:09 timeless, I read it. Oct 18 04:33:17 and speak. not write. (don't ask :-) Oct 18 04:33:25 <|R> and then the CRTC (FCC for canada) decided to let people resell the adsl of the bell... anyway, it's a mess and we don't have real competition :( Oct 18 04:33:26 that's fine Oct 18 04:33:42 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2124 Oct 18 04:33:45 2) Expand some folder with goods categories. Oct 18 04:34:01 what does that mean for those of us who wouldn't know a "goods categories" from a "dead mouse" Oct 18 04:34:19 I think it means "product categories"? Oct 18 04:34:24 sorry Oct 18 04:34:26 * czr takes a look Oct 18 04:34:36 <|R> anyone using www.opennic.unrated.net ? :) Oct 18 04:34:36 to be clear, tell me exactly which quare to click Oct 18 04:34:38 use coordinates Oct 18 04:34:47 because there's no way i can read cyrillic over irc Oct 18 04:35:04 just a sec Oct 18 04:35:04 sounds Racey :) Oct 18 04:35:38 timeless, all the gray buttons are separate "categories" Oct 18 04:35:55 the first on the left top corner is "computers, notebooks, KPK (no idea)" Oct 18 04:36:05 the ones with the annoying excel icons ;-) Oct 18 04:36:25 the light blue "tab" just above that is "prais-list" Oct 18 04:36:44 so I guess we're on the right page at least Oct 18 04:37:32 ah. now I get the report Oct 18 04:37:44 below the gray buttons, there's a hierarchial "navigation tree" Oct 18 04:37:50 on the left Oct 18 04:37:51 * |R wonders if he'll ever have enougth people running one mesh-routing algorithm to make it fun Oct 18 04:38:30 timeless, if you first press the first top-left gray button (the one with the "computer" icon), it should open the hierarhical view just below the buttons Oct 18 04:38:36 hold Oct 18 04:38:41 some idiot is pissing me off Oct 18 04:38:43 there will be two entries with "HP" and "SONY" there (for example) Oct 18 04:38:49 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535#c5 Oct 18 04:39:36 ok Oct 18 04:39:39 interesting Oct 18 04:39:44 and this doesn't work on the n800? Oct 18 04:39:52 I have no idea. you want me to test? Oct 18 04:39:56 please Oct 18 04:40:00 a sec Oct 18 04:40:16 btw, I have stock opera on it Oct 18 04:40:25 * timeless shrug Oct 18 04:40:31 the guy complained about both, no? Oct 18 04:40:34 not microb or anything Oct 18 04:41:01 let me check Oct 18 04:41:09 konqueror doesn't render it correctly either though ;-) Oct 18 04:41:18 (running a very old version of it here) Oct 18 04:41:21 the css looks over specified Oct 18 04:41:29 my bet is the site isn't close to correct Oct 18 04:41:44 wouldn't be too surprising Oct 18 04:43:02 cute Oct 18 04:43:05 height = 31 Oct 18 04:43:12 site's broken Oct 18 04:43:17 RESO **** Oct 18 04:43:58 works on opera on n800 Oct 18 04:44:10 want a screenshot? Oct 18 04:44:46 Believe he attached one to the bug for both microb and Opera. Oct 18 04:44:49 i so don't care Oct 18 04:44:55 ah, great. Oct 18 04:44:58 it doesn't work in firefox on windows Oct 18 04:45:01 didn't find the screenshot tool anyway ;-) Oct 18 04:45:18 the code clearly generated a bogus value Oct 18 04:45:27 now back to yelling at this other guy Oct 18 04:45:42 if you guys are awake and less angry than me, helpwaned in the other bug 535#c5 Oct 18 04:45:42 <_Monkey> Bug 535 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535 Oct 18 04:45:43 timeless, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2075 (boy do I feel silly) Oct 18 04:45:59 but honestly that was the first link I tried with N800 Oct 18 04:46:09 oh fwiw Oct 18 04:46:12 i talked to a guy this week Oct 18 04:46:18 and he contacted someone this week Oct 18 04:46:27 there was some vague indication of progress Oct 18 04:46:40 on what? :-) Oct 18 04:46:45 i should reopen it and move it to misdirected:Nokia Oct 18 04:46:48 the buggy webpage? Oct 18 04:46:56 primary nokia content for our platform? Oct 18 04:46:57 yes. Oct 18 04:46:58 I sent email to the webmaster at nokia Oct 18 04:47:06 but that never solicited any response Oct 18 04:47:11 i used internal channels and a finnish speaking intermediary Oct 18 04:47:11 "how suprising" Oct 18 04:47:13 it'll be fixed Oct 18 04:47:18 cool Oct 18 04:47:21 my intermediary is good Oct 18 04:47:30 just was silly debugging exersise. especially because of the gzip-encoded transfer Oct 18 04:47:39 * timeless nods Oct 18 04:47:47 did i tell you how to defeat that? Oct 18 04:47:53 no? Oct 18 04:47:56 oops :) Oct 18 04:48:12 or hmm. can't remember who did Oct 18 04:48:18 about:config?sprefname=encoding Oct 18 04:48:23 no :-) Oct 18 04:48:27 * |R wonders why nseries.com is the only flash site completely fucked in his browser :P Oct 18 04:48:34 that's too easy damn it! Oct 18 04:48:57 wireshark -> capture -> follow TCP stream -> export as raw -> clip the gzip data out from there -> gunzip.. Oct 18 04:48:59 ftw. Oct 18 04:49:10 wireshark sucks Oct 18 04:49:16 i mean, this is basic functionality Oct 18 04:49:19 oh yes. setup a switch through which all AP data passes with a mirror port too Oct 18 04:49:20 it needs to just support it Oct 18 04:49:34 sorry Oct 18 04:49:37 np :-) Oct 18 04:49:46 fwiw, i had a js proxy server that i could use for debugging stuff like this Oct 18 04:49:57 but it was my previous employer's property Oct 18 04:50:04 it made this stuff trivial :) Oct 18 04:50:16 yup. someone suggested using ettercap in filter mode (so that it would rip out the gzip capability from the request) Oct 18 04:50:19 especially since it ran in gecko and was tunable w/ about:config Oct 18 04:50:40 i could add arbitrary js to the proxy on the fly :) Oct 18 04:51:02 anyway, shall i reopen the bug and move it to misdirected Oct 18 04:51:03 that sounds like.. just about any site that uses js. they seem to add arbitrary js to the content too. :-) Oct 18 04:51:09 or just add a comment w/ the note about the config bit Oct 18 04:51:23 you could add the comment at least. that would've helped a lot Oct 18 04:53:58 timeless, so #535 is about missing unicode codepoints in device fonts? Oct 18 04:54:03 no Oct 18 04:54:10 the summary clearly says: Oct 18 04:54:13 Dynamic Fonts not supported by opera Oct 18 04:54:17 it's not asking for Tamil Oct 18 04:54:21 it's not asking for unicode support Oct 18 04:54:25 it's not asking for decoders Oct 18 04:54:28 it's asking for: Oct 18 04:54:29 Dynamic Fonts not supported by opera Oct 18 04:54:37 the reason it asks for that Oct 18 04:54:41 I'm afraid to ask. what are Dynamic Fonts? Oct 18 04:54:43 is because a long time ago Oct 18 04:54:45 ... Oct 18 04:54:49 see the link to bugzilla.mozilla.org Oct 18 04:54:57 in short, netscape 4 and ie supported them Oct 18 04:55:12 either in the form of OTF (?) or APR/AFR (?) Oct 18 04:55:35 basically sites could include a reference to a file which the browser would download and load and use to render the page Oct 18 04:55:42 ah Oct 18 04:55:52 mind you, fonts are a great way to send viral / exploit code Oct 18 04:55:56 hmm. MS introduced them. embedded fonts is the correct term Oct 18 04:56:02 because very few people handle them correctly Oct 18 04:56:10 no wonder it didn't register. and yes, it was evil. Oct 18 04:56:16 it wasn't really evil Oct 18 04:56:26 it was. truetype validation isn't trivial. Oct 18 04:56:36 it was the only way for a certain group along the indian ocean Oct 18 04:56:39 it doesn't have to be TTF Oct 18 04:56:44 you could also use Adobe's fonts Oct 18 04:56:51 which is what netscape used Oct 18 04:56:57 hmm. IE only supported ttf. Oct 18 04:56:58 uh is there a decent dictionary program for english? Oct 18 04:57:14 but for reference, microsoft didn't parse TTFs well enough the last time i checked Oct 18 04:57:24 the definition of not well enough is BSOD btw Oct 18 04:57:28 timeless, didn't claim they did :-) Oct 18 04:57:39 (the fonts were of course broken, but the user doesn't care) Oct 18 04:57:39 used to do a lot of work with ttf round 2000-2002 Oct 18 04:57:48 nice Oct 18 04:57:52 i played w/ them before that Oct 18 04:58:04 and a bit annually as people complain about Dynamic Fonts Oct 18 04:58:08 or various similar things Oct 18 04:58:27 anyway, back to the bug at hand Oct 18 04:58:42 so, what you're saying that there are unicode codepoints for the language, there might even be fonts that cover those codepoints, but the webpages in question will not switch to unicode? Oct 18 04:58:44 i need to get text into the bug explaining to the reporter why i'm obligated to comment Oct 18 04:58:48 and why he's delluded Oct 18 04:59:05 web pages are typically dead Oct 18 04:59:07 like trees Oct 18 04:59:20 asking them to switch is like asking a book to repaginate Oct 18 04:59:30 heh. love the analogy. Oct 18 04:59:41 thanks :) Oct 18 05:00:00 but the point is, that i don't care about anything other than the bug summary Oct 18 05:00:07 if he asks for X in Opera Oct 18 05:00:14 it's my job to say that X in Opera won't happen Oct 18 05:00:23 and if you want X in Gecko, you'll have to talk to mozilla.org Oct 18 05:00:35 he didn't ask us to install Tamil fonts Oct 18 05:00:41 or encoders/decoders or ... Oct 18 05:00:46 he asked for support for Dynamic Fonts Oct 18 05:01:06 I guess his grief is partly due to waiting for a response for such a long time Oct 18 05:01:09 or her. Oct 18 05:01:25 i inherited that problem Oct 18 05:01:34 and the other part seems to be that you're responding in a technical manner which seems to go slightly over the top for him/her. Oct 18 05:01:42 we didn't own or have permission to talk in bugs.maemo.org Oct 18 05:01:50 that sucks :-) Oct 18 05:01:54 until the microb project was announced Oct 18 05:02:10 until that time, i could have said "sorry, we're not paying opera to fix this" Oct 18 05:02:25 "especially given that we're not trying to sell any devices in your market..." Oct 18 05:02:28 which we aren't Oct 18 05:02:35 indeed, that was my question as well Oct 18 05:02:55 i'm still amazed that we suppor Russian and aren't trying to sell there... Oct 18 05:03:14 * timeless needs to ask BI to replace this laptop, not having a functional 't' key *sucks* Oct 18 05:03:23 timeless, I'd think that has something to do with project origins or smt. I don't know the specifics obviously :-) Oct 18 05:03:52 which part? Oct 18 05:03:57 supporting russian or not selling? Oct 18 05:04:04 supporting russian Oct 18 05:04:14 personally, i'd support russian to keep my devs honest Oct 18 05:04:17 and besides, many russian-speaking people don't live in russia Oct 18 05:04:24 because cyrillic isn't latin Oct 18 05:04:31 which means slightly better testing Oct 18 05:04:40 but i doubt that's the reason why Oct 18 05:04:43 it's too technical Oct 18 05:04:45 assuming you know when it looks like proper cyrillic vs just gibberish Oct 18 05:04:54 nah Oct 18 05:04:59 you'd be amazed :-) Oct 18 05:05:04 things can go wrong enough that it'll crash Oct 18 05:05:11 the honesty level i'd want is probably just that Oct 18 05:05:15 heh Oct 18 05:05:22 remember, we can't get people who recognize proper English from gibberish Oct 18 05:05:29 expecting better from anythinhg else is .... Oct 18 05:05:32 asking way too much Oct 18 05:05:52 s/thinh/thin/ Oct 18 05:06:03 :-) Oct 18 05:06:06 anyway, back to my bug Oct 18 05:06:26 I just noticed that Arjun is the OP and the latest reply. Oct 18 05:06:50 "reporter", yes Oct 18 05:07:04 That's what I meant to type. :) Oct 18 05:07:23 i'm just here to reformat your brain, continue... Oct 18 05:07:36 --draft-- Oct 18 05:07:42 reporter: I'm *the* browser architect: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/5/ Oct 18 05:07:42 Oct 18 05:07:45 timeless, I think it all boils down to this: "complaining here is absolutely pointless". bad timeless, bad.. Oct 18 05:07:46 and the people who have added comments did *not* understand the concept. They don't know what dynamic fonts mean with relation to the web. I do, I've been working (albeit not actively) on trying to get dynamic fonts supported in Mozilla for more than 5 years. Oct 18 05:07:51 Oct 18 05:07:57 And I'm sorry, it's my job to respond to bug postings. I'm responsible for all bugs in the browser. Oct 18 05:07:57 Oct 18 05:08:03 As for the delay, I'm sorry, until my project was announced in June, I wasn't allowed to talk about the browser at all. Oct 18 05:08:04 - Oct 18 05:08:23 I think that's pretty fair :-) Oct 18 05:08:48 you could also add that dynamic fonts are EVIL. Oct 18 05:08:51 anyone else before i click Commit? Oct 18 05:08:56 nah, i won't do that Oct 18 05:09:04 i still want to suppor them Oct 18 05:09:04 So the issue is Arjun was asking for a feature to be added to Opera, but since it's not open source... Oct 18 05:09:28 straind: arjun was asking us to pay opera to add a feature Oct 18 05:09:31 for which we'd get no return Oct 18 05:09:37 a very very expensive feature Oct 18 05:09:52 and i tried to explain that you shouldn't ask downstream to fix a bug like this Oct 18 05:10:17 if arjun wants dynamic fonts in opera, arjun should talk to opera Oct 18 05:10:27 who will probably kindly offer arjun the bill Oct 18 05:10:38 timeless, what are the odds that even if he would talk and pay to opera, that they'd actually fix his 800? Oct 18 05:10:47 I didn't read it as Arjun asking anyone to pay Opera to fix it. He just wants it fixed. ;-p Oct 18 05:10:49 not sure how many millions it'll cost, my guess is considerably more than it cost for nokia to get opera for 770/n800 Oct 18 05:11:16 I guess my point was, does opera actively offer their browser for the device? Oct 18 05:11:23 no Oct 18 05:11:26 * czr nods Oct 18 05:11:34 nokia paid for it Oct 18 05:11:49 well, obviously, but that doesn't have to be the only business model for them (opera) Oct 18 05:11:57 but if arjun has enough money to pay for the feature, the pocket change for getting the software for the device should not be a problem Oct 18 05:12:13 and that's really the proportion Oct 18 05:12:37 adding dynamic fonts is a major feature Oct 18 05:13:08 porting an X11 application that ran on embedded devices to an embedded platform that runs X11 ... Oct 18 05:13:25 sure nokia probably made some annoying requests, but they're trivial in comparison Oct 18 05:13:41 (and no, i have no idea what nokia asked for, and if i knew, i couldn't say) Oct 18 05:14:12 czr: do i cc Quim or just reply? Oct 18 05:14:52 I just spent 56 minutes transcoding a 60 minute video. That seems a little wasteful. Oct 18 05:15:00 just a little? Oct 18 05:16:04 Well, I'm hoping I'll have something that will play on the 700 now. That's worth something, and it's not like I was actively doing it. Just waiting for it and doing other things. Oct 18 05:16:16 timeless, you might ask someone else for that. /me is outsider. Oct 18 05:16:19 s/700/770 Oct 18 05:16:57 * timeless was wondering if straind would do that Oct 18 05:17:16 Do what? Oct 18 05:17:26 fix your typo :) Oct 18 05:17:57 It took me a while to realize I made a mistake. It's so infrequent. Oct 18 05:19:33 I like engadget and their "Nokia N700" Oct 18 05:19:37 Not really sure what that is. >_> Oct 18 05:19:55 GeneralAntilles, it's the 770 with the virtual keyboard removed Oct 18 05:20:16 czr: and Nseries added? Oct 18 05:20:37 timeless, sure. it's for the busy corporate execs who prefer to point and click and can't be bothered with keyboards Oct 18 05:20:56 user friendlier model of 770 you see. Oct 18 05:23:16 i thought corporate execs were eSeries Oct 18 05:25:09 * czr secretly wishes he'd be using the zSeries right now Oct 18 05:25:27 too noisy to have them at home, but very nice devices otherwise. Oct 18 05:26:51 elmo43, just keeping a distance, i dont enter on the channel because IRC lost a lot of my time, pretty busy Oct 18 05:32:08 btw, anyone using the vmware images for maemo development? Oct 18 06:05:04 hmm. X forwarding from within SDK is not possible? Oct 18 06:05:10 (with ssh) Oct 18 06:08:38 I have xephyr running on host A. I then do ssh -X host B (where I have the SDK installed). X forwarding with X client there works. I then do /scratchbox/login, and check DISPLAY (localhost:10 as per ssh default), but gtk complains that DISPLAY is not set. Oct 18 06:09:18 localhost:10.0 even. Oct 18 06:24:32 meh. it was an xauth issue. Oct 18 06:24:33 yays Oct 18 06:30:28 hmm. any idea why there is no X86 version of osso-screenshot-tool? Oct 18 06:30:40 (there is one of the ARMEL side of SDK) Oct 18 06:30:45 on the.. even. Oct 18 06:31:51 Because you can take screenies using the host OS if you're running under VMWare? Oct 18 06:32:45 assuming that I'm running under VMware, I could take screenies of the ARMEL side as well. Oct 18 06:33:00 just wondering whether it's just some oversight. Oct 18 06:33:15 * GeneralAntilles is a Nooblette Without a Clue. ;) Oct 18 06:33:35 GeneralAntilles, actually my SDK is now running as a VM, but I have xephyr on my main machine, this way I don't have to have the vmware UI open at all (the vm is on another machine anyway) Oct 18 06:34:08 I'm using ssh to the vm and then /scratchbox/login and using ssh X forwarding so that all the graphics stuff comes back to my main desktop Oct 18 06:34:14 oh Oct 18 06:34:28 much more convenient than the vmware UI stuff, it's "jerky". Oct 18 06:34:41 czr: did i properly indicate that the other commens were entirely offbase? Oct 18 06:34:50 timeless, wrt what? Oct 18 06:35:05 ah, I should re-read the bug-entry now, shouldn't I? :-) Oct 18 06:35:11 yeah Oct 18 06:35:16 url? Oct 18 06:35:22 my X crashed a while ago. Oct 18 06:35:38 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=535 Oct 18 06:36:27 yup. that seems right to me Oct 18 06:36:37 thanks Oct 18 06:38:01 timeless, you might want to add this link for the curious: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/ Oct 18 06:38:11 I think that's the thing that started the whole mess anyway Oct 18 06:39:08 http://cgi.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease352.html Oct 18 06:39:09 or even this: http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/weft00.htm Oct 18 06:39:23 ah Oct 18 06:39:28 that's where the name comes from :-) Oct 18 06:39:40 I guess that's better, but you could throw both :-) Oct 18 06:39:41 i'm kinda hold Oct 18 06:39:49 s/h// Oct 18 06:39:50 timeless meant: i'm kinda old Oct 18 06:40:11 hmm. a new bot? Oct 18 06:40:15 no Oct 18 06:40:23 just generally silent Oct 18 06:40:29 never noticed it before :-) Oct 18 06:44:16 timeless, now that I think about it, I stumbled across WEFT back in 97 or 98 Oct 18 06:44:24 I think that was when IE4 just came out Oct 18 07:35:58 hi Oct 18 07:36:41 This may appears stupid, but is it possible to test the 0S2008 for N810 emulated under qemu ? Oct 18 07:37:06 when it will be out... Oct 18 07:53:51 how good is support for Qt now? Oct 18 08:03:35 Morning, all Oct 18 08:07:06 morning Oct 18 08:07:07 <_Monkey> aloha Oct 18 08:09:16 Pupnik : r you here!!!!!!!!!! Oct 18 08:22:11 now, *who* owns _Monkey? Oct 18 08:22:20 never got a reply on that one. Oct 18 08:22:30 Why the hell did it have to reply on the "morning"? Oct 18 08:22:48 It's just gonna confuse new users, thinking it's not a bot, trying to talk to it, etc. Oct 18 08:22:57 and it has *zero* value Oct 18 08:23:30 Welcome to the wonderful world of IRC bots. :P Oct 18 08:24:21 GeneralAntilles: I know. I once helped draft guidelines for "acceptable bots", and _Monkey violate quite a few of them ;) Oct 18 08:25:31 anybody please tell me how can i compile source code in maemo 2.2 target Oct 18 08:25:41 please anybody Oct 18 08:26:02 Big_B: gcc, make & dpkg-buildpackage. (Depending on original source language, of course) Oct 18 08:27:16 ya jaffa , Actually i need gcc full command for own project to compile Oct 18 08:27:56 Well, you've got gcc in Scratchbox, so it should Just Work[TM] - as long as you've got dependencies etc. Oct 18 08:28:29 ya Oct 18 08:29:07 i compiled hello.c but i don know how to compile whole project Oct 18 08:29:41 please help me jaffa!!! Oct 18 08:30:13 Big_B: how much experience, beyone, ./configure, make and make install, do you have? Oct 18 08:30:18 compiling things? Oct 18 08:30:48 compiling in maemo is not going to be easy if you don't understand compiling/linking before starting it. Oct 18 08:32:20 ya Oct 18 08:32:38 1./autogen.sh Oct 18 08:32:47 But, the counterpoint to that is that compiling in Scratchbox really isn't any different to compiling outside Scratchbox. Oct 18 08:32:49 2.makefile Oct 18 08:32:55 like this?? Oct 18 08:38:00 Big_B: seen the tutorial? Oct 18 08:38:00 <_Monkey> I haven't seen 'the', Jaffa Oct 18 08:38:57 Jaffa: would you like to give the link?? Oct 18 08:41:33 _Monkey: tutorial? Oct 18 08:41:33 <_Monkey> i guess tutorial is wanting you to run sbox-config, but scratchbox tells me that command is old and to run sb-menu Oct 18 08:41:37 Bah Oct 18 08:42:35 Big_B: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html Oct 18 08:43:07 thank you Jaffa Oct 18 08:47:32 good morning Oct 18 09:17:38 is a new n800 os version available ? Oct 18 09:18:57 Nope, mid-November when the N810 launches (at the earliest) Oct 18 09:19:20 ah ok, sux Oct 18 09:22:34 Eager to get it myself, looks very polished. Happy to wait for the serious bugs to be ironed out, though Oct 18 09:22:58 yeah, same here. Oct 18 09:23:06 N810 uses same Maemo development environment? Oct 18 09:23:08 skipping the 800 was sound Oct 18 09:31:22 i got this error when i run autogen "configure: error: Library requirements (hildon-libsmm >= 0.1.2 hildon-fmmm >= 0.1.2 sqlite3)" in maemo 2.2 target . anybody please help me Oct 18 09:31:36 i got this error when i run autogen "configure: error: Library requirements (hildon-libsmm >= 0.1.2 hildon-fmmm >= 0.1.2 sqlite3)" in maemo 2.2 target . anybody please help me Oct 18 09:32:55 Jaffa : r u bg?? Oct 18 09:39:10 hmm, the N810 is a mixed blessing. sure it got gps and keyboard. but it got one less memory slot... Oct 18 09:40:05 i can't say i've ever needed more than 2gb internally mind Oct 18 09:40:26 heck i've got a 1gb and 2gb in mine and never got close to filling either (but i let my phone handle my music needs) Oct 18 09:41:14 maybe so Oct 18 09:53:50 The N800 is such a ridiculously better bargain right now. Oct 18 09:56:08 heh, and i just got a leftover 770... Oct 18 09:56:46 still, its wsod and in service limbo (waiting for a response on what to do, trash it or return it) Oct 18 10:05:46 morning Oct 18 10:05:46 <_Monkey> aloha Oct 18 10:06:15 what's the prognosis on video bandwidth? Oct 18 10:06:36 Can/Are the bus/chips be driven faster to provide more bandwidth? Oct 18 10:10:00 hmm, tumbleweeds Oct 18 10:10:32 * flip^ hands lardman a tumbleweed Oct 18 10:12:23 lardman, the word I've been hearing is, that since it's a processor design issue, it hasn't changed. Oct 18 10:12:56 ah, but, /me looks for link.... Oct 18 10:12:58 There's some mention of the issue here: http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html Oct 18 10:13:03 in the comments Oct 18 10:13:14 "The N800 and N810 basically has the same hardware, so you can expect similar video playback behaviour (except for cases where there's been tuning, improvements and bugfixes, of course, but since IT OS 2008 runs on the N800 too, the gains will be similar). If it's really about screen bandwidth, I don't really see how driver changes could affect anything, since that's a hardware issue." Oct 18 10:13:23 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2007-March/009166.html Oct 18 10:13:54 that post indicates that the bus speed (?) can be higher, but it's unstable in some way Oct 18 10:14:24 which is why I was wondering whether it can now be driven at higher freq (as the clock rate is higher, etc.) Oct 18 10:15:06 @Per: no PowerVR support. Blending is done using the CPU, AFAIK. - shame Oct 18 10:15:22 =( Oct 18 10:15:36 it may yet happen I suppose Oct 18 10:15:46 and he also said afaik.... Oct 18 10:15:51 Lack of PowerVR makes me sad. Oct 18 10:17:12 I don't know about the hw, whether it makes sense to try to use it Oct 18 10:17:20 re the bandwidth issue Oct 18 10:17:45 there are no open source powervr drivers for linux Oct 18 10:17:49 so a bit hard for nokia to support it Oct 18 10:17:58 they can use a binary blob Oct 18 10:18:05 like the wifi driver Oct 18 10:18:25 The closed source driver does not support linux kernel 2.6.x Oct 18 10:18:28 no device program announcement yet? :P Oct 18 10:18:40 doublec: yes it does Oct 18 10:18:56 really? The website I'm looking at says it does not. Got a link? Oct 18 10:19:01 looking... Oct 18 10:19:07 http://tinyurl.com/yyppgs Oct 18 10:19:23 "Linux kernel 2.6 introduced major structural changes to the way driver modules are built and loaded. As a result, existing KYRO drivers are not compatible with any Linux kernel whose version is 2.6 or above. To keep using KYRO drivers, users are requested to use the latest available 2.4 Linux kernel version. We have currently no plans of providing drivers supporting updated kernels." Oct 18 10:19:30 get it from Ti, I have it here on my desktop Oct 18 10:19:45 What would it take to engineer open source drivers? Oct 18 10:19:57 prepending a reverse Oct 18 10:20:10 someone capable of reverse engineering the existing drivers Oct 18 10:20:13 and living in a country where that is legal Oct 18 10:20:14 i suspect Oct 18 10:20:23 I also wonder about Jazelle... Oct 18 10:20:33 not too sure about what can be released Oct 18 10:21:47 Well personally I have nothing against binary blobs, it's always better than nothing at all. Oct 18 10:22:26 I wonder if one is allowed to release a Jazelle binary blob Oct 18 10:22:36 if one knows how to enable it... Oct 18 10:23:10 finally, http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12719&contentId=27458 Oct 18 10:23:32 for omap2420 it points to the 2430 download, and there's a 2.6.x version Oct 18 10:23:48 2.6.10, so rather old Oct 18 10:25:52 looking now Oct 18 10:25:58 Interesting. Oct 18 10:26:02 doublec: what countries allow reverse engineering out of interest Oct 18 10:26:10 i don't know Oct 18 10:34:38 it might be interesting to create an image that will match the kernel/libc/gcc/xorg versions used by the Ti download and see if it works Oct 18 10:35:10 i still can't find a powervr driver Oct 18 10:35:21 it's in the tarball in the zip file Oct 18 10:35:29 must have missed it Oct 18 10:35:55 is it the omap2430 sdk? Oct 18 10:35:59 C:\TexasInstruments\OMAPSW GFX L16.4 SDK\binary_omap2430_gdp_linux_ogles_release\pvr.ko Oct 18 10:36:06 yes Oct 18 10:37:03 The kernel driver is 1002kb in size! Oct 18 10:37:11 ouch... Oct 18 10:37:14 wtf ? Oct 18 10:37:28 Bummer, that's a whole lot of reverse engineering. D= Oct 18 10:38:14 there must be a doom clone inside that driver Oct 18 10:39:20 Everything else is fairly small Oct 18 10:39:56 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/screenshot.jpeg as I probably can't share the file Oct 18 10:40:20 yuck Oct 18 10:40:30 what, WinXP? ;) Oct 18 10:40:40 no. a 1Mbyte driver Oct 18 10:40:47 I know :) Oct 18 10:41:34 What about this SDK: http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/insider/Downloads/DocumentDownloads/index.asp?Page=PowerVRSDKs#1 Oct 18 10:42:12 I think that's 2.4.x Oct 18 10:42:23 * lardman needs to remember his imgtec password Oct 18 10:42:54 bugmenot Oct 18 10:42:57 username and password Oct 18 10:43:05 =) Oct 18 10:43:48 does skype does video (on maemo)? Oct 18 10:43:52 well, on a n800 Oct 18 10:44:06 no Oct 18 10:44:19 no skype video support on n800 yet Oct 18 10:44:21 opengl drivers are always huge Oct 18 10:44:37 because there's a whole lot of old crap in opengl that does need to be implemented :p Oct 18 10:44:56 why not make the lib large & the driver small Oct 18 10:45:06 there can't be that much stuff to be done in the kernel driver? Oct 18 10:45:34 also, there is usally a lot of special casing, for optimization Oct 18 10:45:42 auto-generated code Oct 18 10:45:51 :( so i have to use google talk if i want video calling Oct 18 10:45:58 doublec: It's an SDK, not kernel driver in there Oct 18 10:46:09 I agree it's not that great an idea for an embedded device though :) Oct 18 10:46:09 wumpus: fair enough Oct 18 10:46:37 which is why opengl ES and such exists, but that might be too limited, I'd prefer a real opengl stack Oct 18 10:46:38 Yay, announcement of a new device programme - and someone goes and asks about something which mud is perfect for on maemo-developers. Excellent :) Oct 18 10:47:42 where's the device program announcement? Oct 18 10:48:49 i wonder how much will they give the devices for Oct 18 10:48:55 it was $125 for n800 iirc Oct 18 10:49:04 http://flors.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/what-the-nokia-n810-means-for-maemo-developers/ Oct 18 10:49:42 the n810 is getting a lot more attention than the n800 did Oct 18 10:50:20 because it looks like a friggin iphone? :P Oct 18 10:50:37 it does? Oct 18 10:51:14 alas, no multitouch ;-) Oct 18 10:51:41 doublec, A lot of users didn't seem impressed with the n800 when it started out. Oct 18 10:52:05 true Oct 18 10:52:26 what are users impressed about nowadays? Oct 18 10:52:40 there's always the problem with a gadget like this, when they've opened it and run the included programs and ask 'now what do i do with it' Oct 18 10:53:58 you install kagu on it. Oct 18 10:54:18 Will IT2008 have vorbis support included? Oct 18 10:54:29 afaik they didn't include vorbis Oct 18 10:54:38 I'm working on it... Oct 18 10:54:41 there've been some complaints about that in maemo-users and whatnot Oct 18 10:57:19 there is a gstreamer vorvis plugin isn't there? Oct 18 10:57:31 yes, and tremor Oct 18 10:57:37 yes. there are two projects in maemo garage. mogg and ogg-support Oct 18 10:57:39 which is what you want to use really Oct 18 10:58:03 mogg even works with the default music system/player. Oct 18 10:58:17 nice Oct 18 10:58:20 Yeah, the maemo-* thread about it with the ranty review is good Oct 18 10:58:27 what does kagu use for playback? gstreamer? Oct 18 10:58:32 yep Oct 18 10:58:39 kagu is very nice Oct 18 10:58:45 I don;t see why Nokia don't just install the tremor gstreamer plugin and be done with it Oct 18 10:58:45 it's the first thing i show people Oct 18 10:58:48 kagu uses the default music system (or mplayer, optionally) Oct 18 10:59:42 oh, thanks. we tried gstreamer first but it was painful to get working correctly Oct 18 11:00:07 how so? Oct 18 11:01:02 couldn't get the end of song signal fire correctly Oct 18 11:01:33 ukmp uses gstreamer but it's hacky, really. iirc it checked for song position/percentage Oct 18 11:01:47 Oh, MicroB is going to be default? Oct 18 11:02:04 i want to try gstreamer again after chinook is released, though Oct 18 11:02:08 Cool, which reminds me I need to check out svg when my N800 arrives. Oct 18 11:02:42 Maybe even canvas as a pixel buffer if it's supported. Oct 18 11:05:35 sciboy: yeah, Opera's gone Oct 18 11:06:13 i wonder how good the latest microb is Oct 18 11:06:40 the official release is still slow during page loading Oct 18 11:07:09 No worse than Opera for me. Oct 18 11:08:02 i've been trying to build microb Oct 18 11:08:17 It's a struggle Oct 18 11:08:39 mainly due to my lack of knowledge with building maemo stuff i suspect Oct 18 11:08:57 Oh, anyone got a Jaiku invite? Oct 18 11:09:51 is it invite only? Oct 18 11:11:06 I believe so. Oct 18 11:15:13 ahh, from the mailing list it seems that the latest microb source needs chinook Oct 18 11:16:51 Hmm, I wonder if I should upgrade the wordpress package... Oct 18 11:16:59 The new one works, but upgrade doesn't... Oct 18 11:17:08 Maybe I should try to fix upgrade... Oct 18 11:24:45 yay! Oct 18 11:24:49 * lardman sets out to modify his dsp framebuffer task to perform scaling and colourspace conversion Oct 18 11:24:51 it took me 21 seconds to find http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/unstable/4.0beta/content-comparison-3.2-to-4.0beta.html Oct 18 11:24:59 mostly because my sucky internet connection Oct 18 11:25:08 hi koen, how are you? Oct 18 11:25:22 pretty good, apart from a cold Oct 18 11:25:25 how are you? Oct 18 11:25:41 not bad thanks Oct 18 11:26:43 how's openmoko coming along? When's the new phone out? Oct 18 11:27:22 slowly and "december" according to the latest gossip Oct 18 11:27:32 hey koen Oct 18 11:27:42 hey czr Oct 18 11:28:09 koen: :) Oct 18 11:28:34 I'm trying to put 'chinook' into OE now Oct 18 11:29:05 what is OE? Oct 18 11:29:20 doublec: openembedded Oct 18 11:29:32 thanks Oct 18 11:29:41 but I'm getting stuck at nokia incompetence Oct 18 11:29:53 koen: it would be nice to use OE to generate arbitrary binaries Oct 18 11:29:55 every maemo tarball unpacks to 1_ Oct 18 11:30:07 instead of - Oct 18 11:30:22 so make a script that runs basename, mkdir's and extracts there Oct 18 11:30:36 just an added difficulty Oct 18 11:30:38 kinda boring tho Oct 18 11:30:42 I prefer to rant here Oct 18 11:30:47 :D Oct 18 11:31:05 * koen will start gloating when two maemo products will have the same version number Oct 18 11:32:07 lo koen Oct 18 11:32:22 good afternoon mister Flegg Oct 18 11:36:25 what kernel version are we on with the 770? Oct 18 11:38:56 2.6.16 Oct 18 11:38:58 <|tbb|> will the wlan adapter of the n810 be the exact same as on the n800 Oct 18 11:40:04 * lardman wonders why we have 2.6.16 kernel headers under chinook, but the n800 has 2.6.18...? Oct 18 11:54:25 * lardman sees that you can perform fb updates via a mailbox command from the DSP :) Oct 18 12:19:06 how is the support for audio Oct 18 12:19:12 portaudio i wanted to use in maemo Oct 18 12:51:47 * DRoBeR is away: Burger Rata Strikes Back :D Oct 18 12:52:11 hi Oct 18 12:53:02 are there any known problems with maemo.org website in the user profile section? I'vre registred and created an account. I got the confirmation email and I logged into the "Garage". But now I cannot log into Maemo.org profile... why? Oct 18 14:10:28 so what is this profile thing all about? What does one do to prove one's worth - list stuff on your own website? Oct 18 14:11:18 I would imagine that relentless hacking on dsp stuff would qualify one Oct 18 14:11:32 well perhaps, just wondering though :) Oct 18 14:11:52 if nothing else it will force me to update my website Oct 18 14:12:26 Woah, Nokia has a forum. Oct 18 14:12:28 Intriguing. Oct 18 14:13:04 yeah, but for at least some of it you need to pay Oct 18 14:13:08 pay per question Oct 18 14:13:14 That's special. Oct 18 14:13:20 "Special" Oct 18 14:13:25 -needs? Oct 18 14:13:27 Don't forget the quotation marks. Oct 18 14:16:38 I didn't sciboy. :P Oct 18 14:16:54 Sarcasm, not finger-quotes. :P Oct 18 14:24:40 * sciboy googles mtpaint on the n800 Oct 18 14:33:05 Haha Oct 18 14:33:09 Just installed TuxPaint Oct 18 14:33:13 Makes me laugh Oct 18 14:33:20 Reminds me of Kid Pix Oct 18 14:33:32 so you have sdp writing to framebuffer now lardman? Oct 18 14:35:27 Hm, I made a Garage account, and yet can't log into https://maemo.org/. I'm assuming the two user DBs are not immediately synced, but on some kind of interval. Does anyone know the frequency? Oct 18 14:37:08 create another account Oct 18 14:37:38 I'm going to assume that won't work because the mail address is taken now Oct 18 14:37:47 use another addr Oct 18 14:38:00 Kids love tuxpaint Oct 18 14:38:16 I'm somewhat keen on using the address I used for the first account, though .. Oct 18 14:39:01 hmm does n800's upcoming os2008 upgrade include map application? Oct 18 14:39:47 are you sure it aren't just two seperate systems, and you can register with your normal mail account again? Oct 18 14:40:17 wumpus: The maemo.org "Create account" goes to the Garage account creation Oct 18 14:40:30 wumpus: I'm assuming they are seperate systems, but synced on a cronjob I don't know the interval for Oct 18 14:43:05 ah, now the login works - the cronjob ran I guess ;) Oct 18 14:54:20 juh0: even if it doesn't maemo mapper will most likely be easily installable. Oct 18 14:54:55 the point is in preinstalled maps Oct 18 14:55:06 as right Oct 18 14:55:17 s/as/ah/ Oct 18 14:55:17 Jiten_ meant: ah right Oct 18 14:55:58 infobot s/as/ah/ Oct 18 15:01:35 damn wayfinder looks great, voice guidance etc http://www.wayfinder.com/?id=5436 , i'd like to use it also on n800 Oct 18 15:06:50 i have tried maemo mapper beta 2.0, but actually you can't compare them Oct 18 15:18:56 no? maybe they need to implement the Comparable interface... Oct 18 15:25:33 hi all Oct 18 15:25:37 does quim gil come on here? Oct 18 15:25:39 someone compiled conntrack module for any os version on maemo? Oct 18 15:26:51 I've seen quim in here - I'm not sure how regularly he comes in Oct 18 15:29:21 jono: do you need him for something in particular? Oct 18 15:29:22 any other nokia people here? Oct 18 15:29:26 sure Oct 18 15:29:28 timeless: yeah, an interview Oct 18 15:29:32 oh Oct 18 15:29:33 tonight on LugRadio Oct 18 15:29:39 um, got a phone number? Oct 18 15:29:46 for him? Oct 18 15:29:52 for you? Oct 18 15:29:57 why? Oct 18 15:30:10 i can ask him to call you... Oct 18 15:30:26 timeless: if he can mail me thats fine - just mail me at jono AT ubuntu DOT com Oct 18 15:30:38 got a specific message? Oct 18 15:30:46 with his number - we would like to interview him at around 8pm UTC Oct 18 15:30:53 timeless: do you work with him? Oct 18 15:31:07 for a very loose definition, i suppose Oct 18 15:31:21 i'm most certainly not authorized to give interviews Oct 18 15:31:35 I mean, can you call him? Oct 18 15:31:46 i just did, no answer Oct 18 15:31:51 right Oct 18 15:32:46 hrm, that's in 5 1/2 hrs? Oct 18 15:32:56 yep Oct 18 15:33:27 keep in mind, that's 11pm Oct 18 15:33:30 sms sent Oct 18 15:33:37 no guaranees Oct 18 15:33:41 s/e/te/ Oct 18 15:33:42 timeless meant: no guarantees Oct 18 15:33:47 kind of short notice Oct 18 15:33:54 ok thanks :) Oct 18 15:34:09 yeah, our current interview fell through so we would like to discuss the N810 Oct 18 15:34:26 tak: blame anssi :) Oct 18 15:34:52 * Tak blame ISO instead :-P Oct 18 15:34:54 may i ask what the scheduled interview subject was? Oct 18 15:36:21 those osso applications are in gtk ? can be used on a normal linux system or needs to compile special libs and stuff ? Oct 18 15:37:37 timeless: I can't say Oct 18 15:37:42 we are doing it in the next show Oct 18 15:37:44 fair enough Oct 18 15:37:55 Thanatermesis: your question is confused Oct 18 15:37:58 thanks timeless Oct 18 15:40:17 pupnik, those nice gagdets that's on the desktop for configure bluetooth, wifi, etc... are simple gtk applications or its other kind of lib ? Oct 18 15:41:44 in theory there's an sdk and documentation Oct 18 15:41:59 afaiu the apis are the same ones used for gnome desktop (mostly) Oct 18 15:42:46 mmmh, that's again a new dependency for the system.. Oct 18 15:43:26 * VimSi get all wuschig about the n810 Oct 18 15:44:32 framebuffer gurus - any of you about here? Oct 18 15:47:53 hmm Oct 18 15:50:58 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk analogue controller Oct 18 15:55:18 rather snazzy Oct 18 15:57:31 anyone about with a 770 (not running hacker edition)? Oct 18 15:57:48 sure Oct 18 15:58:25 could you take a look under /sys/platform/devices/dsp/ and look for a file that gives you the DSP gateway version number please Oct 18 15:58:50 hang on and I'll try to be more specific Oct 18 16:00:09 /sys/devices/platform/dsp/ Oct 18 16:00:20 sorry, typo on my part Oct 18 16:00:33 would probably by ifver Oct 18 16:01:11 3.2 3.3 Oct 18 16:01:23 hmm Oct 18 16:01:27 same as on n800 Oct 18 16:01:47 want a cat * on pastebin? Oct 18 16:01:54 nah, but thanks Oct 18 16:02:10 I've been looking though the dsp-side and arm-side kernel code... Oct 18 16:02:37 and on the arm side there is a way to do a framebuffer update, not sure there is on the dsp side... Oct 18 16:03:00 but there must have been for the 770 (as it had framebuffer altering dsp tasks) Oct 18 16:05:17 refereing to the xsp i assume? Oct 18 16:05:35 what's that? Oct 18 16:06:36 the pixel doubling Oct 18 16:07:02 ah, no, more to do with framebuffer access and how to force an update from the DSP-side Oct 18 16:07:28 does anybody tried to use python libraries to run as kernel module? Oct 18 16:07:32 xsp is done on the ARM-side by the LCD controller Oct 18 16:07:36 all i see for this is include/asm-arm/arch-omap/omapfb.h Oct 18 16:08:21 does gtk/hildon have a widget that can show text and understands basic html tags like and such? Oct 18 16:08:34 GtkLabel Oct 18 16:08:53 does it support multiline text too? Oct 18 16:09:06 pupnik: I'll dig out the files when I get home - WinXP search fn not working well Oct 18 16:10:04 lardman: You have the TMS320C55x Hardware Extensions for Image/Video Applications Programmer's Reference PDF? Oct 18 16:10:16 pupnik: what it came down to was that the arm (kernel) side of the dspgateway can accept a mailbox call to perform an update, but the DSP-side doesn't appear to #define this Oct 18 16:10:24 ah Oct 18 16:10:24 pupnik: yes Oct 18 16:10:58 dsp-side doen't seem to define it that should have read Oct 18 16:10:59 Jiten: yes Oct 18 16:11:44 * lardman is waffling Oct 18 16:12:17 Damn, I'm trying to fix sqlite-wordpress upgrade Oct 18 16:12:30 sqlite 2.x doesn't support alter table :( Oct 18 16:14:44 Tak: looks like will not work. Oct 18 16:15:54 neither does
... it doesn't quite do enough :/ Oct 18 16:16:13 no, it takes literal linebreaks Oct 18 16:16:49 you'll probably need gtkhtml for more complete html rendering Oct 18 16:17:02 are there actually members of the public who have n810s already? Oct 18 16:17:35 does maemo have it? Oct 18 16:17:45 lardman: yes, there are several reviews out already Oct 18 16:18:08 Jiten: any useful info in them - dmesg output, list of kernel modules, etc.? Oct 18 16:18:31 I haven't seen any. Oct 18 16:18:39 not sure Oct 18 16:18:49 jono: ok, quim ponged, hopefully he'll poke you shortly Oct 18 16:19:47 * sp3000 hungry Oct 18 16:19:49 * sp3000 homes Oct 18 16:22:03 hi! i try to flash gregale on my nokia n770. but i always get "Finishing flashing... Sending request 0x52 failed!" i used SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php. any ideas? Oct 18 16:22:17 what's happened to http://www.maemoapps.com/ ? Oct 18 16:22:56 mazzen: which flasher are you using? Oct 18 16:23:02 i used this: sudo ./flasher-2.0 -r SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R Oct 18 16:23:22 but i tried flasher3-0-static also Oct 18 16:23:24 I guess I get to use GtkTextView widgets with a self built parser. Oct 18 16:24:03 mazzen: wrong command line, use -F, not -r Oct 18 16:24:12 flasher -f -F SU-18-blablabla.bin -R Oct 18 16:24:36 upgrading my sbox from 1.0.7 to apophis r4 (1.0.8) with apt. hope it works and doesn't break my previous configurations Oct 18 16:25:30 gotta try some chinook sdk love Oct 18 16:26:23 do we know whether the non-beta will change anything significant (like the version of scratchbox?) Oct 18 16:26:53 not sure Oct 18 16:27:17 the initial announcement says "the beta sdk has known issues and some missing packages" Oct 18 16:27:37 but afaik r4 is the latest sbox1 there is Oct 18 16:27:40 presumably it will all be tied down by mid November Oct 18 16:28:25 mgedmin: thanks, but if do " sudo ./flasher-2.0 -f -F SU-18_2006SE_3.2006.49-2_PR_F5_MR0_ARM.bin -R" the flashing process doesnt start Oct 18 16:28:54 i'll compile maemopad+/rdesktop for 4.x as well as try to port maemoscrobbler (the cp plugin could give me some headache) Oct 18 16:29:13 mgedmin: ah! it works with the flasher3-0 Oct 18 16:29:17 mgedmin: thanks! Oct 18 16:29:38 sp3000, I see great progress :-) Oct 18 16:29:47 strange that, is it a change in the file format I wonder? Oct 18 16:30:47 konttori: hey. around? had time to test kagu in 4.0 yet? Oct 18 16:31:31 i want a multipart replacement for wget Oct 18 16:31:51 downloading sbox 60k/s is no fun Oct 18 16:33:26 * mgedmin once accidentally shaped himself to 30 KB/s, and that was not fun Oct 18 16:34:54 Do I use GPE for todo lists? Oct 18 16:35:25 <||cw> you can, there are a couple other PIM options too Oct 18 16:35:52 Which would you recommend? Oct 18 16:36:56 hmm, it would have been nice if http://tabletwiki.blogspot.com/2007/10/use-n800-to-play-classic-arcade-games.html had filed a bug... Oct 18 16:38:49 be sure to leave him a note that it might be useful to notify the developer if something doesn't work. Oct 18 16:39:04 that is... file a bug on him ;) Oct 18 16:39:17 people are conditioned to not contact developers from the windowz/commercial world Oct 18 16:39:32 I know Oct 18 16:41:16 see you later chaps Oct 18 16:42:18 buenos dias xD Oct 18 16:42:44 heh, I responded on ITT Oct 18 16:43:37 <||cw> sciboy: can't, been to long since I used them Oct 18 16:51:01 did you see the InfoNES emulator Tak? http://pupnik.de/InfoNES_0.01_armel.tgz Oct 18 16:51:27 There's an updated core for it, but it mainly fixes compatibility issues. Oct 18 17:00:21 Oh, the n810 has 2GB built in. Oct 18 17:01:28 compatibility? Oct 18 17:04:05 Eh, the IT2008 will allow clocking to 400mhz? Oct 18 17:04:53 the people who claim that don't back it up with evidence Oct 18 17:05:16 There's mention that a "Nokia product manager" said it... we'll see Oct 18 17:05:21 It won't be long before we find out anyhow. Oct 18 17:05:37 First release of Java-based tablet-encode (successor/sibling to Perl-based 770-encode) should be released tonight. Oct 18 17:05:46 Neatly coinciding with the device programme :-) Oct 18 17:05:55 it's not impossible. igor stoppa from nokia was working on power management and dynamic cpu speed stuff he even had a presentation posted in maemo-devel about running the n800 at 400mhz etc Oct 18 17:07:08 heh, they probably didn't put it at 400mhz to prevent the battery from draining even faster Oct 18 17:08:02 Jaffa, Device programme? Oct 18 17:09:55 Jaffa, tablet-encode? Oct 18 17:10:12 sciboy, http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html Oct 18 17:10:32 Ah that. Oct 18 17:10:41 heh. have to love the second comment though. "I want a device, too." Oct 18 17:10:54 heh @ Jaffa Oct 18 17:11:10 hmm. how come the main page shows that there are 5 comments, and the page itself only shows 3 of them? Oct 18 17:13:04 comments stuck in moderation que? Oct 18 17:16:07 suihkulokki, there is moderation in maemo.org? Oct 18 17:16:14 on even. Oct 18 17:16:23 no idea Oct 18 17:18:10 let me see Oct 18 17:18:56 anyone got xmame workin on 2007os? Oct 18 17:20:09 Atarii: yes - what's the issue? Oct 18 17:21:41 Nokia announced very high battery life playing music - looks like improved power management and/or dynamic cpu clocking Oct 18 17:24:32 dyncpu could be there Oct 18 17:25:19 maybe they are upgrading to a 2.6.22 or later kernel Oct 18 17:25:40 that kernel had some new features that saves power Oct 18 17:25:48 a friend of mine got 20% longer battery life with it Oct 18 17:25:51 on his laptop Oct 18 17:27:03 * flip^ reads up and wonders if it'd ever be possible for an end user to get a n800 running/modded to run at 400mhz Oct 18 17:27:15 whats the point? Oct 18 17:27:16 <_Monkey> i heard the point was to make the user happy Oct 18 17:27:30 I'd rather go lower in mhz, and get longer battery Oct 18 17:27:35 _Monkey wins. Oct 18 17:27:35 <_Monkey> sciboy: huh? Oct 18 17:28:04 TPC: the n800 is great for most things, but on some things (like decoding video that hasn't been specifically reencoded for the device) it can often fall just a *little* short of smooth playback... and so on Oct 18 17:28:08 and for geeky curiousity Oct 18 17:28:25 ok, quite a bit for geeky curiousity Oct 18 17:28:29 TPC, There were many games under the GP2X that required overclocking to play smoothly. Oct 18 17:28:38 It's an option that'd be nice for developers and users to have. Oct 18 17:28:39 GP2X is a different thing Oct 18 17:28:48 it used replaceable batteries, so battery life wasn't as important Oct 18 17:29:01 you could get 10 rechargables and bring as spare Oct 18 17:29:04 Heh, tell that to the guys who use it. Oct 18 17:29:39 its obviously still important, but not in the same way Oct 18 17:29:49 TPC: some say that running the CPU at a higher speed may consume less power because running slower takes longer Oct 18 17:29:51 They underclocked it a lot to. Oct 18 17:29:53 too* Oct 18 17:30:27 It's mainly just about scaling to the demands of an application. Oct 18 17:31:07 you mean, running at low speeds until some software actually needs to the power? Oct 18 17:31:39 mgedmin, that is stupid Oct 18 17:32:02 a faster cpu might have more efficient power consumption Oct 18 17:32:04 * mgedmin searches for the reference Oct 18 17:32:08 Pretty much, applications don't require 100% of the power 100% of the time. Oct 18 17:32:22 you can take along 10 BP-5L batteries too TPC Oct 18 17:32:34 pupnik, BP-5L batteries are alot more expensive Oct 18 17:32:48 the GP2X use normal AA ones Oct 18 17:33:25 why do i see many bp-5ls li-polymer batteries on ebay for 2-7 euro? Oct 18 17:33:37 mgedmin, but nothing is stoping the cpu manufacturers from implementing that more efficient power consumption in their slower cpus Oct 18 17:33:50 except that they wouldn't make as much money Oct 18 17:33:59 pupnik, Compare the amperage. Oct 18 17:34:13 instead of foaming on irc, read the power managment presentation from: http://maemo.org/intro/presentations/ Oct 18 17:34:18 all say 1700 mah Oct 18 17:34:23 can you get batteries for the N800 that last longer than the included one? Oct 18 17:34:25 Huh... Oct 18 17:34:38 see http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets Oct 18 17:34:39 some say 1800 mAh Oct 18 17:34:40 without having to make any case modifications to make them fit that is Oct 18 17:34:43 TPC, You can get an external battery pack that lasts 2 days with wifi on. Oct 18 17:34:44 suihkulokki: exactly. Oct 18 17:35:26 The N800 charges off it. Oct 18 17:36:15 Probably much easier than carrying around 10 BP-5L's Oct 18 17:37:32 anybody have an n810 right now? i'm wondering if they changed the systemui (power key menu) Oct 18 17:38:03 shortkeypress=softpoweroff longkeypress=menu is so useful they should make it the default Oct 18 17:39:00 softpoweroff, is that locking the screen and keyboard? Oct 18 17:39:12 if not it would be useless Oct 18 17:39:26 but if it is, then I agree with you Oct 18 17:39:30 it is screen turned off with locked keypad/touchscreen Oct 18 17:39:38 yeah, thats what I meant Oct 18 17:39:50 not the "lock screen and keys" though. Oct 18 17:40:46 in softpoweroff mode touchscreen or keypad events are all ignored, and screen is turned off. to get it back you need to keep your finger on the powerbutton for a few (1? 2?) secs Oct 18 17:44:06 disq/tpc/sp3000: any idea what's up w/ that color shift? is it significant? should i push back to the art people here? Oct 18 17:44:12 and who noticed/why? Oct 18 17:45:09 ours is just a little more red Oct 18 17:46:08 yeah, we compared and observed a slight difference Oct 18 17:46:19 is it significant enough that i should push back? Oct 18 17:46:30 i have about 2 hours and 0 build engineers/artists Oct 18 17:46:49 heh Oct 18 17:46:57 btw sp3000's page made it, at least as far as we can tell Oct 18 17:47:02 so thanks to all of you for helping out Oct 18 17:47:14 * timeless makes a note to add that to the announcement Oct 18 17:47:21 * timeless frowns Oct 18 17:47:28 this might be some sort of lesson learned entry Oct 18 17:49:00 :) Oct 18 17:49:57 good to hear. and the bright tone is not an issue. but of course if you need more time to polish other stuff, you could use it as an excuse :P Oct 18 17:50:18 we're too schedule driven for me to be able to use that excuse Oct 18 17:50:28 there's actually one window, and i'll be using it, but not for that Oct 18 17:50:39 you'll see in my announcement, which i might publish now. Oct 18 17:50:45 I need to review it Oct 18 17:55:23 mmm. somehow no fm radio in n810. maybe they just didn't bother to compile it Oct 18 17:55:40 um Oct 18 17:55:42 * czr whines softly to sp3000 about the exec Oct 18 17:55:46 ther'es no fm radio hardware Oct 18 17:55:59 czr: *whimper* Oct 18 17:56:03 it didn't have RDS anyway :P Oct 18 17:56:09 :-) Oct 18 17:56:11 didn't occur to me at the time :) Oct 18 17:56:29 np :-) Oct 18 17:56:37 didn't occur to me on the first post of the bug either. Oct 18 17:58:01 one of the n810 review claimed it had an fm *transmitter* Oct 18 17:58:11 for beaming your songs to a car radio Oct 18 17:58:37 or maybe it has a lazer. Oct 18 17:58:57 lasers ftw Oct 18 17:59:14 heh, for ripping audio CDs Oct 18 17:59:24 ripping all kinds of other stuff as well Oct 18 17:59:28 "rotate the CD slowly while aiming the n810's laser at the grooves" Oct 18 17:59:32 heh Oct 18 17:59:41 that's what the GPS is for Oct 18 17:59:49 for stabilisation, right Oct 18 17:59:50 it tells you how to rotate the device evenly around the CD Oct 18 18:06:26 this is the review that claims an FM transmitter: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html Oct 18 18:07:18 sp3000? Oct 18 18:07:23 i'm looking for a place to get a card Oct 18 18:07:27 something like, "you're our hero" Oct 18 18:07:30 it also mentions "class 8 and 9" AJAX :-) Oct 18 18:07:31 (in Finnish) Oct 18 18:07:44 eep Oct 18 18:11:51 mgedmin, Considering the inclusion of GPS it makes sense for in-car hook up. Oct 18 18:12:02 "Hardware key to lock touchscreen and keys" oooh. is that what it is? the top-right key? i thought it had something to do with gps Oct 18 18:14:51 uh. i currently have 30 tabs open in opera (not the n800 one :P ) Oct 18 18:15:16 Says the screen is brighter too, wonder what that means under direct sunlight. Oct 18 18:16:07 sciboy, it activates the lazer. Oct 18 18:16:35 no need to keep eyes open even Oct 18 18:16:43 About that, does it come packaged with minions or do we still have to purchase those seperately? Oct 18 18:17:14 it comes with a gps so that minions can find Oct 18 18:17:17 you Oct 18 18:17:57 I assume that also means a steady stream of hero's? Oct 18 18:18:50 I need to feed the dragons and lazer-porpoises you know... Oct 18 18:20:03 when I'm using ITOS 2007 hackers edition on the N770, should I install Gizmo for N800 or for N770 ? Oct 18 18:26:42 texrat in ITT: "As for the speed increase, what I've read says that it will occur in only certain circumstances" Oct 18 18:27:43 disq, "when the device is powered off"? :-) Oct 18 18:29:18 timeless: ok, my card finding skills ~ 0 Oct 18 18:29:26 heh Oct 18 18:29:31 I don't know of an approximately equivalent likely phrase Oct 18 18:32:47 wrt prospective n810 laser: "Can I attach it to my shark?" Oct 18 18:32:57 kala: I never tried OS2007HE, but my understanding is that the N800 version is more likely to work (but only if it doesn't depend on new ARM6 instructions), but the 770 might also work Oct 18 18:34:40 Tak, I'm sure there will be some shark-kit-accessory available later Oct 18 18:35:05 although giving GPS capabilities to sharks is pretty scary Oct 18 18:36:58 it will strike a blow for shark rights Oct 18 18:37:11 no longer will they be forced to wander aimlessly through our planet's oceans Oct 18 18:37:25 indeed. Oct 18 18:37:37 the jaws movies will have to be re-made. Oct 18 18:37:38 won't somebody think of the pirates Oct 18 18:37:42 and will be slightly more interesting too Oct 18 18:37:54 jaws 2000. Oct 18 18:38:04 Yeah, they will have to devise a way of making us people think they still wander aimlessly while they further their secret plans. Oct 18 18:38:29 sp3000, the swedes deserve all the sharks that are headed that way! :-) Oct 18 18:38:38 + yarr. Oct 18 18:39:45 my 770 just rebooted spontaneously - I think it's rebelling against all this shark/laser talk Oct 18 18:40:01 Tak, maybe it doesn't know how to swim. yet. Oct 18 18:42:06 mediaplayer/dsp_dld Oct 18 18:43:16 ...which is odd, bc it was paused... Oct 18 18:46:35 _monkey tpc? Oct 18 18:46:36 <_Monkey> timeless: bugger all, i dunno Oct 18 18:46:37 _monkeydisq Oct 18 18:46:43 _monkey disq? Oct 18 18:46:43 <_Monkey> disq is probably correct Oct 18 18:46:55 _monkey forget disq Oct 18 18:46:56 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot disq Oct 18 18:48:48 why? i am always correct Oct 18 18:49:35 i kinda want to credit you by name if you don't mind Oct 18 18:49:48 * sciboy grabs Firefox 3. Oct 18 18:50:26 Anybody else notice how painful it is to use emacs on n800? ;) Oct 18 18:50:38 using emacs is always self-torture :) Oct 18 18:50:42 :) Oct 18 18:50:42 heh Oct 18 18:50:56 editor wars, the gift that keeps on giving. Oct 18 18:51:02 Being able to use vi nicely took some time too before I figured out how to type ESC. Oct 18 18:51:24 yeah, vi is another such jewel :) Oct 18 18:51:39 yeah, I need to use ^[ on my ThinkOutside keyboard. Oct 18 18:51:43 vi works great on the N800. Oct 18 18:51:58 You really start to appreciate all those key-stroke saving features. Oct 18 18:52:26 yeah, saving keystrokes is very nice if you have to use the onscreen keyboard Oct 18 18:52:36 Yeah, but I had to figure out how to add ESC to the terminal shortcuts :) Oct 18 18:52:54 But yes, vi is definitely less painful than emacs on n800 with on-screen kb. Oct 18 18:53:13 generally I just ssh from my desktop machine though to edit files Oct 18 18:53:23 Yeah, that's the easiest way. Oct 18 18:54:25 a bluetooth keyboard would be nice in this case, but I don't use the device for typing work Oct 18 18:54:54 mgedmin: thanks. it seems that the 770 version is more stable. but I'm not yet able to make any calls :) Oct 18 18:54:59 timeless: name? need my full name? Oct 18 18:55:01 I wonder if the keyboard in the N810 is any good Oct 18 18:55:56 SLi: don't you like the hardware Esc button? Oct 18 18:56:15 SLi: There's a hardware escape key. Oct 18 18:56:59 There is? Oct 18 18:57:15 yup Oct 18 18:57:24 Which one is it? :) Oct 18 18:57:25 it's a secret button Oct 18 18:57:31 the little round one with the arrow Oct 18 18:57:45 that goes to the prev page in the browser Oct 18 18:57:54 Ah. Oct 18 18:57:57 Nice to know :) Oct 18 18:58:38 indeed. Oct 18 18:58:40 Then it should be almost possible to use emacs too :P Oct 18 18:59:00 as for keyboards, I'm trying to get to the point where I can leave the laptop at home more and more. Having a BT keyboard helps with that. Oct 18 18:59:36 Although I'm not sure if the terminal supports ctrl-space, never got that to work when trying to use emacs through ssh. Although I must admit using emacs with the on-screen kb is a bit pointless perhaps. Oct 18 18:59:45 deejoe: but isn't carrying around a keyboard and the device just as much hassle as carring a laptop? Oct 18 19:00:05 http://rig.vlad1.com/~vladimir/canvas/cdemo1.html <- Can someone test this with MicroB? Oct 18 19:00:39 I suppose a bt keyboard takes more space than the device itself Oct 18 19:00:57 Does it work, and does it work smoothly? Oct 18 19:01:11 wumpus: not my behemoth 15.4" beast Oct 18 19:01:32 I can fit folding keyboard and n800 in my waist pack. Oct 18 19:02:09 nice Oct 18 19:02:37 I haven't weighed the two, though. I suspect the weight ratio is closer than the volume ration--the keyboard is heavy. Oct 18 19:02:43 sciboy: I only get the title (h1?) and a short vertical red line below the C, a bit to the left. Oct 18 19:02:45 volume ratio* Oct 18 19:03:14 SLi, That's wierd. Oct 18 19:03:15 " canvas item? Oct 18 19:03:24 Yep? Oct 18 19:03:24 sciboy: that's the "new canvas item" Oct 18 19:03:25 probably the battery that makes it heavy Oct 18 19:03:41 keesj, "new canvas item" meaning what? Oct 18 19:03:45 Although hmm. I get the same after I choose Opera. I wonder if my render engine choice thing works. Oct 18 19:04:12 SLi, It's for Mozilla. Oct 18 19:04:28 wumpus: nah. it's just one AAA battery Oct 18 19:04:38 Oct 18 19:04:45 sciboy, yeah, but I chose Set engine -> MicroB in the n800 browser menu. Oct 18 19:05:12 What about it, keesj? Firefox 2 has had it supported for quite a while now. Oct 18 19:05:42 Since MicroB supposedly uses Gecko 1.9, why doesn't it work? Oct 18 19:06:12 I'm not sure my browser used MicroB even if I chose it, because it looks identical in the Opera engine. Oct 18 19:09:06 microb probably drops some features to save memory etc Oct 18 19:09:07 That's a bummer though, that means I don't have a pixel buffer to do effects. =( Oct 18 19:09:44 The alternative is everything has to be prerendered, this game is going to be using quite a bit of space. =/ Oct 18 19:11:14 perhaps that flash is better suited, programming it using mtasc looks a lot like the javascript code in the browser Oct 18 19:11:59 Hmmh, is there a separate microb application or is it just a engine plugin for the n800 browser? Oct 18 19:12:24 Nah, screw flash. Oct 18 19:12:27 haha Oct 18 19:13:00 Because I can't get it to use MicroB even if there's that choice in the menu. Oct 18 19:13:36 The game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets. Oct 18 19:14:04 SLi: it is another engine. there was some setting that had to be changed so that the menu appears. Oct 18 19:14:26 Okko, the menu does appear, but at least the user agent doesn't change regardless of the setting. Oct 18 19:14:56 SLi: try some ajax site and maybe you can tell a difference. might be a bug in the user agent string? Oct 18 19:15:02 SLi: (just guessing) Oct 18 19:15:14 Hmm, maybe. I'll try to find a difference. Oct 18 19:15:26 sciboy: vlad's canvas thing wfm on the microb I have Oct 18 19:15:41 wfm? Oct 18 19:15:47 Should it reload the current page with the new engine when I change the engine or do I need to refresh? Oct 18 19:16:17 sp3000, Does the animation appear smooth? Oct 18 19:16:22 sciboy: wfm is worksforme Oct 18 19:16:32 fairly Oct 18 19:16:45 Cool that's great news. Oct 18 19:17:30 if you get all the elts growing at the same time it gets a bit slideshowey but then that happens on my laptop too so meh Oct 18 19:17:58 and, uh, if you're not at zoom=100% ... :O Oct 18 19:18:13 hmm. some flash game? Oct 18 19:18:37 czr, Hmm? Oct 18 19:18:45 Now I think I have microb working. Oct 18 19:18:52 sciboy, what are you talking about? :-) Oct 18 19:19:06 it's not lazers with sharks.. I'd recognize that anywhere. Oct 18 19:19:37 does anyone know if samba server was ported to run on os2007he ? Oct 18 19:19:44 czr, I'll be trying to do a game for the N800 using javascript. Oct 18 19:19:59 sciboy, that's evil. EVIL. :-) Oct 18 19:20:14 does it work? mind you, I only have the default user image on mine (no microb) Oct 18 19:20:22 sciboy, ok, now I see your canvas demo correctly. Somehow my browser just didn't use microb even when I told it to. Oct 18 19:20:36 SLi, Thanks. =) Oct 18 19:21:14 czr, I can't use SVG because that'd get too laggy since it renders when it comes on screen. Oct 18 19:21:40 Now it also gives a different user agent string. :) Oct 18 19:21:43 * czr nods Oct 18 19:21:44 czr, So instead I had two options, render everything out to PNG, or use canvas to create a pixel buffer at the beginning of a level. Oct 18 19:21:49 is SVG useable even on N800? Oct 18 19:21:55 I mean, not very very slow-like. Oct 18 19:22:09 SVG... it's a great idea gone horribly wrong, IMO. Oct 18 19:22:23 svg-tiny is pretty ok Oct 18 19:22:26 GNash port? Oct 18 19:22:48 some of the more obscure stuff like filters and text stuff is pretty difficult to do properly imho Oct 18 19:22:58 anyone know of an easy way of putting a status message on the home screen when a shell script runs ? Oct 18 19:23:04 Depends how simple the graphic is, I was looking at opacity, blur and rotation on bitmap graphics. Oct 18 19:23:23 czr, Hence my need for that pixel buffer. ;) Oct 18 19:23:25 Lariso, yup. give me a sec Oct 18 19:23:25 Rather complex, very ambiguous standard documents, and the repeated mistake (from postscript) of making it turing complete :P If I understand correctly, it didn't strive to be a flash replacement, it was made turing complete only because it could be done... I might be wrong though. Oct 18 19:23:43 czr: thanks Oct 18 19:23:57 Lariso, check the example in the start of the bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2114 Oct 18 19:24:06 it uses d-bus to send request for an "info dialog" Oct 18 19:24:19 there are similar other mechanisms as well (infoprint being the other one) Oct 18 19:24:30 but I hope your message doesn't contain spaces! ;-) Oct 18 19:24:39 that's fab thanks Oct 18 19:24:47 well, spaces are not essential ;) Oct 18 19:24:55 * czr nods Oct 18 19:25:26 one day i'll work out python..but for now shell scripts are enough Oct 18 19:25:31 sciboy: something like http://ctho.ath.cx/toys/rollercoaster.html doesn't fare that well :) Oct 18 19:25:34 I must admit I feel somewhat horrified in the n800 world, installing all stuff from random sources. Too long away from Windows, I guess. Oct 18 19:25:43 * sp3000 gets about 1fps on that Oct 18 19:26:02 SLi: It's different when you can go read the source code. Oct 18 19:26:20 Lariso, if you need other options, you'll have to read the source code for libosso Oct 18 19:26:35 Lariso, look for "infoprint" implementation and the symbolic constants giving the D-Bus method names Oct 18 19:26:46 lol that was easy! Oct 18 19:26:51 derf, yes, I know. But I'm too used to having the source available with apt-get source, most(?) maemo repositories don't seem to offer source packages. (Are they even supported the same way as in Debian?) Oct 18 19:26:57 ok will do Oct 18 19:27:16 sp3000, My game is staying well within the realm of 2D. =P Oct 18 19:27:17 this run-standalone.sh script contains the hooks for sending gui-stuff i assume Oct 18 19:27:45 Lariso: it does some env defs and such Oct 18 19:27:52 SLi: Most people don't do development on the device itself. Oct 18 19:27:53 you may not need it esp except in sb Oct 18 19:28:06 Lariso, no, not really. it just pulls some environmental variables and then _incorrectly_ just invokes the rest of the arguments Oct 18 19:28:19 derf, yeah, I don't either, I have scratchbox, but still. Oct 18 19:28:29 sp3000, Also I'll be using canvas in a fairly minimal way aswell, it's just there to render graphics before they even come on screen, making it significantly quicker while the game is running. Oct 18 19:28:38 Lariso, dbus-send is a generic small utility to send d-bus method calls. Oct 18 19:28:43 Anyway... I've complained about the lack of an organized repository before. Oct 18 19:28:52 It does not seem like a problem Nokia is terribly interested in fixing. Oct 18 19:29:03 Lariso, and com.nokia.statusbar is the "service" through which you can ask for simple dialogs and silly things. Oct 18 19:30:17 ok i think i'll be able to get on with that Oct 18 19:30:18 thanks Oct 18 19:30:29 np Oct 18 19:30:41 the problem is that, if nokia offered an "official," organized repository and enforced debianlike standards, everybody would complain that it's too difficult and just host their own repos anyway Oct 18 19:30:43 * czr wishes, once more, that Nokia would document the d-bus interfaces. Oct 18 19:30:50 it's not for anything fun, just for me to debug all the little scripts i'm writing to do awesome stuff with my n770 :) Oct 18 19:30:59 hell, that's already happening with garage extras Oct 18 19:31:27 http://ctho.ath.cx/toys/popsquares.html pretty. Oct 18 19:31:51 best screensaver evar Oct 18 19:32:06 Tak: That's because the normal model is that the distribution maintains the repository, not the software developers. Oct 18 19:32:35 aww. that's pretty Oct 18 19:32:47 derf: the debian developers maintain the repository Oct 18 19:33:04 Right. But not the authors of the actual packages. Oct 18 19:33:35 Excluding perhaps some Debian-specific packages, but those are completely dwarfed by the volume of non-Debian specific packages. Oct 18 19:33:42 * czr wonders for a very very short moment whether he should port the real-time ifs-generator to N800 ( http://koltsoff.com/pub/cloud9/cloud9.png ). That's about 15M particles (with a lot of other stuff as well, static pictures don't really do justice to it) Oct 18 19:33:53 sp3000, One sec, want to find some fun javascript examples. Oct 18 19:34:04 I'd very much appreciate a repository up to the standards of debian or ubuntu Oct 18 19:34:05 speaking of screen savers ;-) Oct 18 19:34:07 heh - the difference is that nokia *wants* people to develop software for maemo, and debian couldn't give a shit less if people's software makes it into debian Oct 18 19:34:09 Ok, repository.maemo.org seems to have sources for everything. :) Oct 18 19:34:10 And I bet you the actuall _people_ who do Debian development and Debian package management do not overlap much. Oct 18 19:34:19 binary repository, that is. Oct 18 19:34:37 Tak: One of the reasons I stopped using Debian. Oct 18 19:34:43 nokia has to become the 400kg yeti before it gets a herd of people drooling to become maemo repo maintainers Oct 18 19:34:59 sp3000, http://www.dhteumeuleu.com/dhtml/nav-3D.html Oct 18 19:35:02 it's a pet peeve of mine to see people extol apt, when in fact it's not apt, but the quality of the repository that makes it work Oct 18 19:35:17 or, as in the case of my n800 and it's slew of broken repositories, not work. Oct 18 19:35:20 derf: and yet you're begging for debianlike structure Oct 18 19:35:27 deejoe: it's both apt and the repos Oct 18 19:35:55 does anybody know if the new nokia n810 has got an alu case Oct 18 19:36:00 apt may be necessary, but it's far from sufficient, as is implied when people extol apt with nary a peep about repository quality. Oct 18 19:36:16 Tak: It's not the structure that's broken. Oct 18 19:36:20 it's the dependencies and their quality really (repo quality I guess) Oct 18 19:36:28 apt has the nice enabling concept of Suggests: and Recommends:, although I guess those are not used by maemo? And perhaps other systems have copied that by now, I don't know. Oct 18 19:36:28 IceTux: from the pictures, it looks like alu at least some kind of metal ;) Oct 18 19:36:33 deejoe: gigo Oct 18 19:36:41 ok thanks Oct 18 19:36:42 _Users_ benefit from having an organized, central repository. Oct 18 19:36:42 I managed to break the repos on my device within two hours of using it afaim Oct 18 19:36:43 yup Oct 18 19:36:54 But other than that, I agree that the Debian package repository is very high quality indeed. Oct 18 19:37:13 But to get there Nokia might have to *gasp* pay some people to work on such a thing. Oct 18 19:37:22 derf: only if there are an army of maintainers Oct 18 19:37:39 I don't think there's that much maemo software that it would take an army. Oct 18 19:37:47 couldn't it made simpler Oct 18 19:37:59 i mean we have the garage right? Oct 18 19:38:39 Actually could someone try this in MicroB and tell me how smooth the animation is? Oct 18 19:38:40 http://www.dhteumeuleu.com/dhtml/BkgMS-2.html Oct 18 19:38:59 if every projetct on the garage was able to upload their packages wouldn't it be simple to just make ONE repo out of it ? Oct 18 19:39:10 brb Oct 18 19:39:10 That's about as demanding as my game would be. Oct 18 19:39:13 IMO the garage could become a lot of what people want Oct 18 19:39:25 It could, with some work. Oct 18 19:39:30 It doesn't look like it's going to. Oct 18 19:39:57 at the moment it missing a good search funktion an a list... i liked browsing the old maemo repo site :( Oct 18 19:40:13 sciboy, maybe 3-5 fps. Oct 18 19:40:20 the first major step toward making it happen is for the garage extras repo to be included in the preinstalled AM sources Oct 18 19:40:33 SLi, Bugger. Oct 18 19:41:20 Tak, it will be in OS 2008 (aka Chinook, aka what the N810 comes with) Oct 18 19:41:24 tak: think that could be difficult because of copyright issues? Oct 18 19:41:26 I'll have to see how I could work the content around that once the device arrives. Oct 18 19:41:51 m-vo: killer Oct 18 19:42:06 sniff... Oct 18 19:42:09 sciboy, but then it's bigger than the screen, with scroll bars. Oct 18 19:42:12 * Tak mentally associate m-vo with mailing list content Oct 18 19:42:18 any chance the will be a hackerOS2008 ? Oct 18 19:42:39 SLi, And the tiling probably doesn't help either. Oct 18 19:42:41 * VimS huggs his 770 Oct 18 19:42:46 the extras repo will be disabled, tho. Oct 18 19:42:53 ok so i can just run dbus-send directly from a prompt.. i don't need run-standalone Oct 18 19:43:01 so...it's included, but disabled? Oct 18 19:43:05 Lariso, on the device yes Oct 18 19:43:10 Yes. Oct 18 19:43:11 ahh ok Oct 18 19:43:18 sciboy: that page just does black for me on microb for whatever reason Oct 18 19:43:20 Lariso, on SDK you need run-standalone.sh Oct 18 19:43:21 doesn't that seem kind of useless? Oct 18 19:43:32 SLi, But the current plan had about 4 objects scrolling around on screen most of the time, if that doesn't work I'll have to cut back a lot. =P Oct 18 19:43:33 (the former one works fine although slow) Oct 18 19:43:39 * Lariso wonders what else dbus-send can do Oct 18 19:43:57 Tak: i think it will be up to the user to activate them ;) Oct 18 19:44:01 Lariso, dbus-send doesn't do all that much. but there's a lot of stuff sitting on the d-bus that can. Oct 18 19:44:02 sciboy, I'd imagine that might be doable. Oct 18 19:44:35 for some reason i am reminded of when I used to hack about on my old psion 3 Oct 18 19:44:43 ...which kind of makes it useless Oct 18 19:44:44 (not suggesting this is anywhere as simple!) Oct 18 19:44:49 unless the user will be helpfully prompted or something Oct 18 19:45:00 we'll see Oct 18 19:45:25 there's already a huge clickthrough warning about nonNokia software Oct 18 19:45:40 Lariso, there are almost no docs on the d-bus stuff available on the device though. so if you really want to find out, you'll have to do a lot of "hacking" around. Oct 18 19:45:55 * VimS can't wait until november Oct 18 19:45:56 any info on the N810 video bandwidth? Oct 18 19:45:56 that's ok, it gives me something to do at work Oct 18 19:46:04 Well, it is easy to enable it once you discover the "Catalogues" dialog, and we hope that giving the extras repo the special status of being pre-configured makes it more desirable for people to put their packages into it. Oct 18 19:46:17 then the iphone comes out here too Oct 18 19:46:37 has anything been done to increase the discoverability of the Catalogues dialog? Oct 18 19:47:01 I'd say there isn't enough QA in front of the extras repository yet to feel confident about enabling it by default. Oct 18 19:47:08 tak, no. Oct 18 19:47:13 SLi, So would I, I'll have to do some tests when I get my N800. It comes down to a background, a mid ground and two animated sprites. Oct 18 19:47:20 m-vo: kind of a catch-22 imo Oct 18 19:47:24 m-vo: what must one do to get his packackes on the extras repo ? Oct 18 19:47:27 m-vo: I agree Oct 18 19:47:46 unless it's got increased visibility, it will be difficult to muster a community QA effort Oct 18 19:48:00 unless there's good QA, it's difficult to justify increased visibility Oct 18 19:48:14 tak, yes, it's not revolutionary to pre-configure that repository, but it hopefully also shows some commitment from Nokia's side. Oct 18 19:48:51 I understand the motivation Oct 18 19:49:02 and I'm not complaining; I'm trying to be helpfully analytical Oct 18 19:49:09 BTW, anybody know about maemo-mapper, seems it's a one person project, whether the author would mind me hopping in and sending some patches for new features and bug fixes? If I find the time. I already have a short todo list for it. Oct 18 19:49:24 tak, yes, it's appreciated. Oct 18 19:49:47 SLi: The author would appreciate it. Oct 18 19:49:52 SLi: I suspect he'd appreciate Oct 18 19:50:02 If he doesn't, I'll go downstairs and have words with him. Oct 18 19:50:03 N810 will bring a new surge of activity to the community, just like N800 did Oct 18 19:50:06 :) Oct 18 19:50:21 there seems to be no way around separate distributions for development versions and end-user-ready versions of packages. Oct 18 19:50:47 of course, we should do this for the whole OS, not just applications. Oct 18 19:51:26 m-vo, the debian model is nice, with stable/testing/unstable, although I guess it would be most useful to just take testing and rename it to something else (where packages migrate when they have been in unstable for a while with no serious bugs filed). Oct 18 19:51:54 SLi, I'm just hoping this works out, I'm not into blitting and if the canvas pre-render actually works out that's actually a huge advantage over other 2d game engines. Oct 18 19:52:32 SLi, Enabling me to do things that are simply not possible at real-time and keep file-sizes relatively low. Oct 18 19:52:47 m-vo, assuming new os releases about once per year, Nokia will probably want to keep a "stable" repository themselves then. :) Oct 18 19:52:51 I'd love to see more devs publishing to garage extras, and more QA for extras packages Oct 18 19:52:58 SLi, yes. The Debian model would fit us quite well, I'd say, even internally. Instead of having only one eternal unstable like Debian, we might need to start out with one unstable/testing/stable silo for each major release, but that's details. Oct 18 19:53:28 if only you wouldn't have so frequent releases Oct 18 19:53:38 * Tak not complaining about frequent releases Oct 18 19:53:57 well, me neither, but I don't think the "debian model" would work all that well with high freq "stables" Oct 18 19:54:02 Tak: As I said before, devs don't do package maintainence. Oct 18 19:54:43 Release early, release often. Although it's a small pain to have to reflash new releases, but I don't know how much I'd appreciate cutting other development time for providing a smooth upgrade path. Oct 18 19:54:43 maybe they should Oct 18 19:55:00 particularly since, for the ITs, user/dev/packager tends to be a closed loop Oct 18 19:55:17 Why? It's a completely different skillset than programming, and appeals to a completely different set of people. Oct 18 19:55:29 * Tak indicates previous statement Oct 18 19:55:40 Out of necessity, not choice. Oct 18 19:56:07 I dunno - I first obtained a 770 to hack on it Oct 18 19:56:17 Yeah, and then should every developer be obligated to package their software for every different distribution and to know all the peculiarities of each? I can tell there's enough quirks for one person even in Debian. Oct 18 19:56:59 And now you've got ITOS 2005, 6, 7, 8, the 700, N800, N810... chances are your dev is going to have exactly one combination of those. Oct 18 19:57:00 (Maybe especially in Debian, since their guidelines are rather strict.) Oct 18 19:57:38 And they will do the minimum amount required to get the thing installed on their device. Oct 18 19:57:42 is it possible to install an apt repo on a flash drive? Oct 18 19:57:43 And no more. Oct 18 19:58:22 thejapanesegeek, sure, use a "file:///" URL. Oct 18 19:58:34 Quoth the derf, "and no more." ;-) Oct 18 19:58:57 Thanks for everything guys, here's hoping I can join in with development soon. Oct 18 19:59:16 the problem I'm having is that it tries to update the internet repos, and I don't have wifi right now. Oct 18 19:59:23 I guess that maintaining the software would be possible across multiple releases as well, assuming someone would pay for it Oct 18 19:59:28 some sort of autobuild submission process with an automated package review tool (ala lintian) would be good Oct 18 19:59:32 but that's not likely to happen with majority of projects at least Oct 18 19:59:33 Can I disable the internet repo update? Oct 18 19:59:46 just bought an n800 and i think it fits the need of a mobile device ( with 16 gb sdcard memory) much better then the n810 for me Oct 18 20:00:19 thejapanesegeek: why would you do that? Oct 18 20:01:24 upload a tarball to build.garage.maemo.org, it builds debs for all currently supported distributions, runs something lintianlike on the packages, and releases them to the appropriate repos Oct 18 20:01:25 hey, a quick packaging question (deb-buidling), is ${misc:Depends} really useful? it's put into control by dh_make automatically (there's also shlibs:Depends obviously). Oct 18 20:01:50 VimS: because I don't have access to wifi where I am right now Oct 18 20:01:51 <_Monkey> right now is the time when you can find ps2 full versions in the magazine shelves for a couple of bucks Oct 18 20:02:44 thejapanesegeek, what happens if you put the device into 'offline'-mode? (power switch shortly, the select 'offline mode') Oct 18 20:02:45 is there any wake-on-lan tool for the n800? Oct 18 20:03:25 czr: The App manager asks to enter online mode. Oct 18 20:03:29 dockane, the radio is completely off when the device is completely off. Oct 18 20:03:36 thejapanesegeek, ah. figures :-) Oct 18 20:03:57 dockane, so no. Oct 18 20:04:38 thejapanesegeek, the AM will still try to go online even without any repo configured,,, :-( Oct 18 20:04:48 I also tried assume online in the options, but that also doesn't fix it. Oct 18 20:05:00 but it should. Oct 18 20:05:12 This has a simple solution. Oct 18 20:05:16 Use the command-line. Oct 18 20:07:01 derf: ueber-geek ;) Oct 18 20:07:04 thejapanesegeek, you might also submit a bug-report against the Am if there's not one already Oct 18 20:07:46 no help on the ${misc:Depends} -question? Oct 18 20:08:17 czr, man debhelper :-) Oct 18 20:08:18 * Tak not debiangeek enough to know about misc:Depends Oct 18 20:08:40 I used the default version of ITOS that came with the tablet, and I was able to maunally download the debs for the program I wanted, but I had to flash mine and now the apckages are broken. Oct 18 20:08:45 m-vo, thanks :-) Oct 18 20:08:52 I was hoping a local repo would fix it. Oct 18 20:08:53 some dh_foo helpers use it, but you pretty much have to know what they are doing. Oct 18 20:09:12 m-vo, yup, dh_make will add it automatically to the control file that it generates though, hence the question Oct 18 20:09:22 czr: I learned just enough about debhelper to install stuff on my device, and no more. Oct 18 20:09:43 do you know what version of firmware comes with the n800, and where can I get a replacement? Oct 18 20:10:15 thejapanesegeek, the version that comes with it depends on when you bought it. and you can get an update from nokia.com Oct 18 20:10:18 czr, i think it's harmless to leave it there, if you can stand the warning about it being undefined when nobody actually puts stuff into it. Oct 18 20:10:43 m-vo, trying to update some reference material. so I'll better document what it's meant for (and rip it out) Oct 18 20:11:30 I used some of the updates linked to from the maemo flash with linux site, but none of them allow installation of all the packages. Oct 18 20:11:37 Yeah, I finally read the training material, it has amazing depth. Explaining how "make" works, wow. Oct 18 20:11:48 m-vo, which one? Oct 18 20:11:57 does it list make's default rules? Oct 18 20:12:03 that'd be fun. Oct 18 20:12:09 sp3000, you mean the built in pattern ones? Oct 18 20:12:09 The stuff Jarmo wants to put out for maemo 3.2 Oct 18 20:12:21 m-vo, ah yes. that is exactly what I'm fixing currently Oct 18 20:12:22 czr: right Oct 18 20:12:27 turned out all the packaging stuff was very very very broken Oct 18 20:12:45 (I wrote it for 1.0 originally, haven't seen the material since) Oct 18 20:13:10 sp3000, I think it mentions something abouter patterns, but tries to avoids them Oct 18 20:13:32 since using patterns is .. not that important if you've never even used make before. Oct 18 20:14:00 i think there's maybe one example in which only the implicit rules are used Oct 18 20:14:18 since the implicit one to link applications puts LDFLAGS at incorrect position to start with Oct 18 20:14:41 (it should be listed at the very end of gcc invocation, not in the middle, since that breaks linking order with some braindead libs) Oct 18 20:15:12 m-vo, just now realized who you were btw, thanks for all the comments :-) Oct 18 20:15:54 Yeah, took me a while to make the connection as well... :-) Oct 18 20:18:00 funny how this channel and ITT exploded since N810 pictures released Oct 18 20:18:24 people have more spare time now? :-) Oct 18 20:18:30 I've been trying to install the GPE suite just from debs, but the n800 rejects some of the packages, even with the latest version from maemo.org. any idea why? Oct 18 20:18:44 look at log for error message Oct 18 20:20:27 the n810 announcement coincides with the ubuntu 7.10 release Oct 18 20:20:31 my blog reader is exploding Oct 18 20:20:55 pupnik: are you kidding? i've been waiting for this announcement since the first pictures of the case were leaked ;) Oct 18 20:21:39 then again i idle here everyday... waiting for better times for my 770... ;) Oct 18 20:22:01 Heh ok. I just note that the channel has been a lot more active than in the preceeding weeks. Oct 18 20:22:28 jepp noticed that to... although i'm just idling here ;P Oct 18 20:28:01 * Tak just got 770 hacking time back a few weeks ago Oct 18 20:28:23 http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets This post was most excellent. I award two internets. Oct 18 20:28:32 ty disq :) Oct 18 20:28:50 \o/ Tak :) Oct 18 20:29:06 heh - /limited/ 770 hacking time Oct 18 20:29:12 hence the recent fceu and xmaeme releases Oct 18 20:29:29 i have an idea for synergyc Oct 18 20:29:36 erm, quicksynergy is better i think Oct 18 20:30:13 run the daemon on the foreground with debug output, filter debug messages, and run shell scripts (to set the mouse cursor) when the cursor enters/exits the screen Oct 18 20:34:51 Interesting that omap2 with 400mhz ARM constrains DSP to 133 mhz, while 330mhz allows 220 mhz DSP Oct 18 20:35:06 power consumption issue/ Oct 18 20:36:40 assuming yes - this is implied by page 15 of the power-management presentation Oct 18 20:40:22 Woohoo - I just sold another developer on N800 :) Oct 18 20:44:30 hey Oct 18 20:46:43 just got the 1.0.8 scratchbox (to install the chinook sdk), but also wanted to install the bora sdk inside Oct 18 20:47:21 i had to change the glibc-prefix expected by the bora-installer from cs2005q3.2-glibc to cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5 Oct 18 20:48:27 pupnik: oh yeah, one of my cow orkers just ordered one too Oct 18 20:49:07 but when i try to compile a hello world in the newly installed 3.2 target (arm or x86) i get a few undefined references (undefined reference to `errno@GLIBC_PRIVATE' etc) Oct 18 20:51:45 i guess it might be stupid to install the maemo 3.2 into the scratchbox installed by the maemo 4.0 installer, but.... Oct 18 20:52:43 anyone encounter the same problem? Oct 18 20:52:57 truls mmm you can't use the glibc2.5 toolchain with bora Oct 18 20:54:05 ah Oct 18 20:54:08 ack Oct 18 20:54:25 thanks for clearing that up though Oct 18 20:55:01 maybe you can't use the 3.2 installer to set up bora target anymore Oct 18 20:55:23 but it is possible to have bora and chinook targets under the same scratchbox Oct 18 20:55:45 so i'd have to install the scratchbox from the bora installer then... Oct 18 20:55:49 and then add chinook Oct 18 20:55:53 i'd guess... Oct 18 20:56:11 I'm not entirely sure if the installers can be called in sequence like hat Oct 18 20:56:13 that Oct 18 20:56:32 so one scratchbox = one maemo version? Oct 18 20:56:46 i'm doing it right now. upgraded my existing gregale+bora sbox to 1.0.8 (debian ftw) now downloading the rootstraps Oct 18 20:57:08 disq and can you still use the bora target to build stuff? Oct 18 20:57:18 it's still downloading :) Oct 18 20:57:22 :) Oct 18 20:57:47 but i'm hoping it will. can't see a reason not to. Oct 18 20:57:50 I may be mistaken but I think both create targets called SDK_ARM and SDK_X86 or so Oct 18 20:58:01 atleast chinook do Oct 18 20:58:03 no the names are different for chinook beta Oct 18 20:58:09 sorry, bora does :) Oct 18 20:58:10 according to the doc Oct 18 20:58:19 ok cool then it should be possible Oct 18 20:58:27 and pre-3.2 installed sdk targets are incompatible with debian devkit 1.0.8 or newer Oct 18 20:59:01 but which part of the 1.0.8 is incompatible with 3.2? Oct 18 20:59:09 glibc? Oct 18 20:59:10 <_Monkey> glibc is the c main library Oct 18 20:59:57 _Monkey: thanks. Oct 18 20:59:58 <_Monkey> disq: no problem Oct 18 21:00:00 * Jaffa yawns Oct 18 21:01:35 1.0.8 has separated the generic debian devkit to debian-sarge and debian-etch Oct 18 21:01:44 the glibc comes from the toolchain package Oct 18 21:01:59 czr: tablet-encode is a) going to be an example of my nicely OO Java-based framework for media conversion (which hopefully kontorri might use in MediaConverter); b) be a front-end to my on-demand transcoding/RSS feed doing VideoCenter-integrating media converter. Oct 18 21:02:03 older targets expect to have the generic debian devkit Oct 18 21:02:12 hm, so i might be able to try to add an older glibc toolchain to the scratchbox... Oct 18 21:02:14 which is available only in 1.0.7.1 and older Oct 18 21:02:23 Jaffa, ah. I see. thanks for the explanation :-) Oct 18 21:02:26 truls: that should work Oct 18 21:02:29 jumpula: older than 3.2? including 3.2? Oct 18 21:02:31 * czr runs quickly as far as possible from java Oct 18 21:02:42 older than 3.2, not including 3.2 Oct 18 21:02:44 i'm hacking sid-armel debs to get xsetroot and a required lib (libXmuu) Oct 18 21:02:54 m00 Oct 18 21:02:57 3.2 installer uses a combination of debian-sarge and maemo3-debian devkits Oct 18 21:02:59 will make a wrapper to synergyc to change the mouse cursor on mouse enter/exit events Oct 18 21:03:08 which is the equivalent of old, generic debian Oct 18 21:03:11 then hopefully somebody will package xsetroot and friends. Oct 18 21:03:38 truls: I'd wait to hear from disq if it works for him.. then start again by installing first 3.2 and then chinook beta Oct 18 21:03:42 does libXmuu have super cow powers? :) Oct 18 21:04:02 never ask, never tell. Oct 18 21:04:11 i just extracted it from the deb and threw it in in . Oct 18 21:04:59 kaltsi: well, im installing 3.2 first, i just used the chinook-based installer to get scratchbox Oct 18 21:06:03 ah, yep then you're missing the 3.2 toolchains Oct 18 21:06:39 czr: my original Perl version's got some rather nasty threading issues (i.e. it'll randomly kill all threads/child processes). Also, MediaConverter could *really* do with some OO love. Oct 18 21:07:28 yep, hoping to fix that now though Oct 18 21:07:29 Jaffa, not saying that anything is inherently evil with java and oo. just .. it seems so.. wrong :-) Oct 18 21:08:05 ruby would seem like a more natural progression than java Oct 18 21:08:10 czr: Having one big file for all your business logic and GUI code is just as wrong in Java (which is what MediaConverter's written in). Having the Perl version sorted would be better, IMHO for this though. Oct 18 21:08:33 * czr nods at jaffa Oct 18 21:08:58 But UKMP is the same in Python - which is just as bad. Oct 18 21:09:33 plus python has issues with threads as well. Oct 18 21:09:43 unless they're used correctly. Oct 18 21:10:17 * Jaffa 's hoping to put the Perl version out there as a first show tho Oct 18 21:17:01 hi! i set maemo 2.2 with http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/Maemo_2.2_Tutorial.html#settingup . but when i set up a rootstrap target for ARM i have only "none" as an opion for cpu transparency method. does anyone have an idea? Oct 18 21:21:57 jumpula: you might be able to answer that? Oct 18 21:22:14 found it :-) Oct 18 21:22:23 http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-users/2006-May/000539.html Oct 18 21:22:27 mazzen: which scratchbox version do you have? Oct 18 21:22:39 if you have apophis, please install cputransp devkit Oct 18 21:22:57 which is basicly what the link tells you :) Oct 18 21:23:19 no cigar for jumpula :) Oct 18 21:23:28 :-) Oct 18 21:23:54 would have been a cigar for me, if i'd been faster :) Oct 18 21:24:10 took me a while to find this window and then i had to type the answer Oct 18 21:24:25 one slow man short of a man with a cigar Oct 18 21:24:28 and i gave google too much key words :) Oct 18 21:24:35 kaltsi: x) Oct 18 21:25:13 someone told me the 810 will have FM tuner built-in, that true? Oct 18 21:25:36 the N800 has it too Oct 18 21:25:43 oh really? i never knew that Oct 18 21:25:43 but is scratchbox-devkit-cputransp_1.0.3_i386.deb the right one for scratchbox-core 1.0.7? Oct 18 21:26:23 hmm they don't menton it in the tech specs on nseries.com Oct 18 21:26:33 bstock yep but by default there's no application to use it. it's installable from somewhere, lemme see.. Oct 18 21:26:51 don't worry about it, i have a 770 so Oct 18 21:26:54 but that's cool Oct 18 21:27:23 and you need to plug in the headphones and they'll work as an aerial Oct 18 21:27:24 think i'll upgrade to 810 when its released. is there a date yet, last i heard was just november Oct 18 21:27:47 but you can still get the sound out of the speakers even with the headphones plugged in Oct 18 21:28:35 cool Oct 18 21:29:05 yeah it doesn't sound like it'd be worth the upgrade from the 800 to 810, but 770 to 810 should be Oct 18 21:29:33 depending on how badly you would want the hardware keyboard Oct 18 21:29:56 mazzen: they should be compatible Oct 18 21:30:02 jumpula: thanks Oct 18 21:31:46 bstock fyi: here's the fm tuner app http://maemo.org/downloads/product/fmradio Oct 18 21:32:14 hmm, does it have a tuner or transmitter? Oct 18 21:32:24 just a tuner Oct 18 21:32:26 or transciever Oct 18 21:32:35 receiver Oct 18 21:32:40 ah, do you know if the 810 will have transmitter? Oct 18 21:32:51 to use it as walkie talkie or wot? Oct 18 21:33:01 no, to transmit like mp3's over fm frequency Oct 18 21:33:21 ahh well I haven't heard of anything like that Oct 18 21:33:37 like the ipod gadget? Oct 18 21:33:44 i seriously doubt about it Oct 18 21:34:02 me too :) Oct 18 21:34:07 yeah thats what i was thinking, but a friend claims it will. would be nice Oct 18 21:34:13 what about a class 1 laser? Oct 18 21:34:17 in some countries, it's not allowed to have a "rogue transmitter" Oct 18 21:34:27 http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/18/171246 Oct 18 21:34:33 ie. you can't sell those ipod gadgets in finland Oct 18 21:34:46 jumpula: these days you can.. it's legal now Oct 18 21:34:50 that broadcast the music over fm Oct 18 21:34:53 it is? Oct 18 21:34:54 hmm Oct 18 21:34:59 directive of eu? :) Oct 18 21:35:07 dunno :) Oct 18 21:35:15 hmm.. interesting. Oct 18 21:35:22 lemme find you a sales item Oct 18 21:35:25 now i only should have an ipod Oct 18 21:35:28 ... and a radio. Oct 18 21:36:09 linuxdevices.com says it'll have a transmitter, wonder how accurate this is: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3669465936.html Oct 18 21:36:51 hmm that's new to me Oct 18 21:37:28 jumpula http://www.verkkokauppa.com/popups/prodinfo.php?id=21038 Oct 18 21:37:32 verkkokauppa sells those Oct 18 21:37:43 jumpula: since last year or so iirc Oct 18 21:38:14 oh Oct 18 21:38:35 as usual, my information is out-of-date, then :) Oct 18 21:39:06 http://www.whowouldtheworldelect.com/ << vote for US president :) Oct 18 21:39:27 Oct 18 21:39:48 wtf - where's Stephen Colbert?! Oct 18 21:40:08 and chuck norris! Oct 18 21:40:09 <_Monkey> chuck norris is a supreme being Oct 18 21:40:12 :D Oct 18 21:40:15 hehe Oct 18 21:40:20 hahaha Oct 18 21:41:13 heh in my Opera all the republican candidates are hidden under the vote results :-) Oct 18 21:41:21 as they should be Oct 18 21:41:29 if only voting machines worked that way Oct 18 21:41:40 yay, got my hello world working Oct 18 21:41:44 haha Rudy Giuliani Total votes: 911 Oct 18 21:41:49 with the downgraded toolchains Oct 18 21:42:12 nice Oct 18 21:42:15 as its almost 6am, installing chinook in the same scratchbox will have to wait until tomorrow Oct 18 21:42:55 where are you.. in China? Oct 18 21:43:04 taiwan right now Oct 18 21:43:33 ok Oct 18 21:44:16 annoying thing, nokia-shops everywhere, but impossible to get n800s in asia Oct 18 21:44:54 that sucks Oct 18 21:49:17 czr: no.. the other way round. i would like to wake up servers with the n800. so i am just looking for a binary which is capable of sending these magick packets Oct 18 21:49:37 dockane, ahh Oct 18 21:49:51 you could cross-compile one, let me check for the package Oct 18 21:50:40 dockane, etherwake (it's in C, so no extra dependencies) Oct 18 21:50:59 you'll need to run it as root or suid it (it uses PF_PACKET) Oct 18 21:53:00 i tried to build wol on the n800 but i failed with "configure: error: no acceptable C compiler found in $PATH" Oct 18 21:53:42 dockane, have you setup the SDK? Oct 18 21:53:53 I can try to build it for you, give me a sec Oct 18 21:53:54 \quit Oct 18 21:54:08 s/\\/\// Oct 18 21:56:55 \/\/ \/\/ /= Wrestling! Oct 18 21:59:39 it's \/\/\/\/3 now Oct 18 21:59:47 Anyone have their own jabber 2 (jabberd) server working with the RTcom beta? Oct 18 22:01:37 dockane, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/etherwake_1.09-1_armel.deb Oct 18 22:01:55 dockane, or navigate to the dir with the browser with your n800, and click on the file Oct 18 22:02:06 you'll need to run it from the osso-xterm as root Oct 18 22:02:11 (sudo gainroot first) Oct 18 22:09:30 dockane, you still there? Oct 18 22:11:41 czr: yes.. thank you for you help. i hope this package will not add my n800 to your botnet ;) Oct 18 22:11:49 me too! Oct 18 22:11:52 :-) Oct 18 22:12:03 seriously though, you should install the SDK yourself Oct 18 22:12:39 the package is from debian originally, so only thing you need to do is to apt-get source etherwake, then put those files into the SDK, modify debian/control for the Section stuff, and run fakeroot debian/rules binary Oct 18 22:12:52 and that will build you a binary package (assuming you do this on the ARMEL side of the SDK) Oct 18 22:50:36 bah! they're coming out with the 810!? Oct 18 22:52:21 ericz, yes Oct 18 22:52:43 new OS for that too huh? going to be able to upgrade the 700/800? Oct 18 22:52:57 800 yes. 700 no. 770 no. Oct 18 22:53:15 my poor ancient 770 :P Oct 18 22:54:22 heh Oct 18 22:54:28 man i had such big dreams for my 770 Oct 18 22:54:37 then i figured out i wasn't going to be able to connect it to my university's wifi Oct 18 22:54:49 and then it got chucked in a drawer and hardly ever sees the light of day Oct 18 22:55:17 it's too bad, i got the 2 gig memory card and everything. Oct 18 22:55:21 i just got a bluetooth phone and can't get my 770 to connect through it :-/ stupid verizon crippling their stuff Oct 18 22:58:41 works with my phone Oct 18 22:58:50 but data costs so much it's not worth it Oct 18 22:59:09 it's like $0.20/kb or something stupid like that Oct 18 22:59:17 yeah, i'd probably have to pay for *something* to do it right Oct 18 22:59:56 what Verizon BT phone did you get.. Oct 18 23:00:03 samsung sch-u540 Oct 18 23:01:49 they pair and everything, but then it pretends to connect like doing a data call and the authentication fails or whatever, ive tried a few different username/password combinations i've seen googling Oct 18 23:02:32 yeah... sorry.. VZ locked things down with their new DUN auth server a few months ago, so unless you can find a way to change the auth server name (or pay for teathering) Oct 18 23:03:27 i can't even change the WAP browser settings [server/port] on my phone, no idea where those settings are, used to have an ancient, junky phone that had wap and it was easy to change the server, and i was running my own wap gateway for free wap forever Oct 18 23:05:07 the bill always showing lists of data calls to 999 000 0000 was weird though Oct 18 23:05:42 why's verizon have to be so lame with bluetooth :( like all you can do with it is use a headset i guess Oct 18 23:05:58 yeah, they customize the firmware to screw you Oct 18 23:06:17 most vanilla firmwares for cell phones have all of those options open Oct 18 23:06:57 :/ Oct 18 23:07:12 try your #@vzw.com Oct 18 23:07:18 :/ Oct 18 23:07:19 with what password though Oct 18 23:07:27 phone number Oct 18 23:07:40 im happy i dont have verizon cell service Oct 18 23:07:43 uscellular Oct 18 23:07:46 i tried tons of stuff i saw on google, nothing worked Oct 18 23:07:47 people dont know about it Oct 18 23:07:52 razr, unlocked and modded Oct 18 23:07:56 10$ easyedge Oct 18 23:07:59 unlimited net Oct 18 23:08:01 ;0 Oct 18 23:08:03 wow Oct 18 23:08:22 but vzw dun should work Oct 18 23:08:29 or last I heard anyway Oct 18 23:08:33 always nervous about those companys i've never heard of, makes me wonder like "dude, do they even have signal, who are those guys" Oct 18 23:08:42 lol Oct 18 23:08:45 funny part is Oct 18 23:08:53 when i go to like newyork Oct 18 23:09:01 i can use verizon towers Oct 18 23:09:06 and get the full speed Oct 18 23:09:07 rofl Oct 18 23:09:15 since uscc pays them, or whateve Oct 18 23:09:17 share towers Oct 18 23:10:10 i pair them and the 770 says Oct 18 23:10:23 "Selected phone does not support file transfer. It can only be used for dial-up networking." Oct 18 23:10:31 lol Oct 18 23:10:39 do you select dial up networking? Oct 18 23:10:55 well i add it with phone in control panel Oct 18 23:11:01 now im going to connections and adding new one Oct 18 23:11:11 ok Oct 18 23:11:20 is it Packet Data or Data call Oct 18 23:11:23 fucking firefox omg Oct 18 23:11:27 well, dialing #777 with *your10digitphonenumber*@vzw3g.com for username and "vzw" fo password used to work before dun.vzw3g.com was put in place and firmware was updated on the newer VZ phones. Oct 18 23:11:28 it's obviously not WLAN Oct 18 23:11:31 packet data Oct 18 23:11:45 lol TechJunkie Oct 18 23:11:53 they suck that bad/ Oct 18 23:12:05 i know their razrs used to be bloatwared and locked down Oct 18 23:12:11 so dial-up number: #777, username= 8001234567@vzw3g.com ? Oct 18 23:12:14 flash it to alltel and its good Oct 18 23:12:18 unfortunatly... there are ways around it for several phones, just not sure about his. :/ Oct 18 23:12:30 yep Oct 18 23:12:41 password = vzw Oct 18 23:12:48 welll Oct 18 23:12:54 thats not packet data is it Oct 18 23:12:58 its dun Oct 18 23:13:03 but don't get your hopes up with a new EVDO model like that. Oct 18 23:13:12 * x2 grabs 770 Oct 18 23:13:13 do i need to set advanced settings? Oct 18 23:13:44 allow plain text is checked, and use ppp compression is checked Oct 18 23:13:57 auto-retrive dns/ip are set too Oct 18 23:14:44 DUN... sorry I don't have a 770.. I use the "GPRS" setting for connection type, maybe you have that. Oct 18 23:15:06 don't see it Oct 18 23:16:37 phone details on it shows cdma, dun: yes, file transfer: no, sim access profile: no Oct 18 23:16:47 yeah.. not sure about that one, "data calls" I *think* are the older service that literally uses the phone as a low speed modem... not sure... I'm using a Moto Q, verizon, n800. Had to enable things to work via "pdanet" as the old method (given above) doesn't work any more. Oct 18 23:17:58 sounds ok, I just wouldn't get your hopes up... basically you'll probably need a data package and that damn $15/mon teathering fee... but I could be wrong :) Oct 18 23:18:37 yeah, not working as packet data or data call, just getting authentication failed Oct 18 23:19:27 just gotta depend on random people with open wireless :) Oct 18 23:20:30 lmao... iphone vs nokia E70 http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone Oct 18 23:20:58 Yeah.. not sure what to tell you... I know my older LGs and Motorolas could be hacked but I'm not sure about the stuff out there now. Thank god for the global "linksys" network :) Oct 18 23:21:56 * pupnik waits for the giggling to die down Oct 18 23:23:30 entering wpa keys on 770 makes me want to cry :/ Oct 18 23:26:32 pupnik, i'm still going to get an iPhone... Oct 18 23:26:41 as soon as it's released here Oct 18 23:29:09 :) i thank jobs for NeXTstep, so he has a free 'no hate' pass from me for life :) Oct 18 23:30:44 NeXTStation Color... still have one :) Oct 18 23:31:23 lol ericz Oct 18 23:32:50 Woohoo! Perl-based on-demand transcoding and RSS feed into Video Center working :-). Apparently, it's like Orb but open source. Oct 18 23:33:13 * Jaffa is watching the most recent episode of Stargate Atlantis from an HD DivX without any prior transcoding. Oct 18 23:34:37 nice. though my current server can't even *play* x264 720p files Oct 18 23:35:13 * Jaffa 's server can't either - I'm testing it on my desktop. One of the reasons it defaults to 770-encode's "smallest" preset. Oct 18 23:36:13 * Jaffa uploads it to http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/mediaserv.pl.txt - will tidy release and announce it properly tomorrow. Now... it's time for bed. Oct 18 23:36:58 night. Oct 18 23:37:24 g'night Oct 18 23:59:06 night Oct 19 00:41:00 <_trent_> so how do i reboot an 800 so that a running app gets killed? Oct 19 00:41:05 <_trent_> n800 that is Oct 19 00:43:55 Um... reboot it. Oct 19 00:44:28 <_trent_> how? Oct 19 00:44:47 The same way you do normally. Oct 19 00:45:26 <_trent_> wow.. media player eventually died on its own after about 30 minutes of being hosed Oct 19 00:45:40 <_trent_> i tried shutting it off and back on but media player was still running Oct 19 00:45:53 Let me guess, you had it charging? Oct 19 00:46:14 <_trent_> its plugged in yes.. Oct 19 00:46:18 <_trent_> i've only had it about 2 hours :) Oct 19 00:46:34 Rebooting while the tablet is plugged in doesn't reboot it but puts it in more of a sleep mode. Oct 19 00:46:42 Unplug the tablet, then reboot. Oct 19 00:46:49 <_trent_> ah.. useful info Oct 19 00:47:31 <_trent_> thanks Oct 19 00:50:22 or pop battery Oct 19 00:50:38 and disc power Oct 19 00:59:16 Does anyone know if there a standalone flash player for the nokia 770 or 8--? Oct 19 01:02:50 hello Oct 19 01:03:41 where can i find kismet for it 2006 os nokia 770 ? Oct 19 01:04:19 kismet version armel Oct 19 01:05:15 i searched too much but i don't find it Oct 19 01:06:02 can anyone help me please ? Oct 19 01:07:15 repositories? Oct 19 01:07:16 <_Monkey> repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php Oct 19 01:07:26 search gronmayer.com Oct 19 01:08:44 tnx for the info Oct 19 01:09:44 if there are problems lettuce know Oct 19 01:10:05 boooo Oct 19 01:10:17 * zerojay throws tomatoes at pupnik. Oct 19 01:11:01 I try never to disparagus and i don't sweat the truffles. Oct 19 01:11:18 I'm outstanding in my field... and i know something good will turnip eventually. Oct 19 01:11:35 A bunch of things are going grape! Oct 19 01:11:36 :) Oct 19 01:11:37 * zerojay closes the keyboard of the N810 on pupnik's lip. Oct 19 01:11:48 And soon i'll be top banana. Oct 19 01:11:54 (at least, that's my peeling) Oct 19 01:12:06 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10694 Oct 19 01:12:31 I NEED IT NOW Oct 19 01:12:51 (ripped from Kip Adotta - Life in the Slaw Lane (with apologies)) Oct 19 01:13:07 I disagree with iball. My N800 almost did get me laid. lol. Oct 19 01:14:53 hmm a new thread - "internet tablet success stories" Oct 19 01:16:09 (I didn't realize it had kumquat so far) Oct 19 01:19:36 i'm still setting up scratchbox. this is the third try. previous ones failed with no space left on device Oct 19 01:22:00 oh. completed. my /scratchbox is 3.4 gigs now. Oct 19 01:27:28 What could cause my 770 to suddenly be readonly via usb? Oct 19 01:28:21 nothing to do i founded only kismet_2007.01.R1-b-1.0_armel.deb Oct 19 01:29:22 it does not run on my nokia 770 because is for 2007 Oct 19 01:29:49 this is the kismet i have also Oct 19 01:29:50 i need 2006 _armel.deb Oct 19 01:30:32 sure? Oct 19 01:30:42 i update time ago and now i can not use anymore Oct 19 01:31:24 first if to the sh i wrote sudo gainroot Oct 19 01:31:52 i will test this package on 770 Oct 19 01:32:04 and to the next step kismet i saw the gui Oct 19 01:32:36 now i see only a messagge to the shell Oct 19 01:33:38 i installed this package with dpkg -i, then i ran "kismet" as root, and it works Oct 19 01:33:47 Server option : none Oct 19 01:33:50 Is there an app for webspidering? Oct 19 01:33:52 if yours is broken, then do Oct 19 01:34:24 Client option : none Oct 19 01:34:48 it looks like configuration is broken Oct 19 01:34:58 i suggest to remove package and reinstall Oct 19 01:34:59 Starting server ... Oct 19 01:36:48 Waiting for server to start before starting U. Oct 19 01:38:48 /usr/bin/kismet_server : error while loading y Oct 19 01:40:59 [1] + Done (127) $ {BIN} /kismet} Oct 19 01:41:02 Pavlz: strange. is your / filesystem full? Oct 19 01:41:40 this is the messagge i see on the shell Oct 19 01:42:07 many applications Oct 19 01:42:25 Why is the scheme installer missing? Oct 19 01:42:27 "df" command shows space free Oct 19 01:43:09 gah. i think xtightvnc doesn't support the composite extension Oct 19 01:43:50 iirc this is correct, several not supported Oct 19 01:44:16 yes there is a little free space and firt to the row i see to right there is the last messagge Oct 19 01:45:17 i got aircrack-ng 0.5-1 mad Oct 19 01:46:04 aircrack-pwt 1.0.0-1 Oct 19 01:46:40 batmand 0.2-1 Oct 19 01:47:17 becomeroot 0.1-2 Oct 19 01:48:17 btscanner 2.1-2.2 Oct 19 01:49:47 ctorrent 1.3.4-dnh2-btfiles-maemo-1 Oct 19 01:51:02 dropbear-client 0.49-1mh3 Oct 19 01:51:38 dropbear-server 0.49-1mh3 Oct 19 01:52:24 dsniff 2.4b1s2-1 Oct 19 01:52:26 i don't think these packages should interfere - but maybe aircrack-pwt breaks kismet somehow Oct 19 01:53:22 iphome 0.2-1 Oct 19 01:54:39 kismet 2007.01.R1b-1.0 Oct 19 01:54:58 Oct 19 01:55:54 lbncurses5 5.4-4 Oct 19 01:57:11 libpcap0.8 0.9.5-1 Oct 19 01:57:52 nano 1.2.4-5 Oct 19 01:58:22 nast 0.2.0 Oct 19 01:59:26 ncurses-base 5.4-4 Oct 19 01:59:52 netcat 1.10-32 Oct 19 02:00:23 nmap 3.95-1 Oct 19 02:00:57 oggplay 0.31 Oct 19 02:01:59 olsrd 0.4.10-1 Oct 19 02:02:30 i sense frustration Oct 19 02:02:52 osso-statusbar-cpu 0.5.7 Oct 19 02:03:15 i frustration ? Oct 19 02:04:00 osso-xterm 0.13 Oct 19 02:04:18 i am not frustrated Oct 19 02:04:49 why the big list of packages pasted to the channel? Oct 19 02:05:14 privoxy 3.0.6-2 Oct 19 02:05:28 because you asked me Oct 19 02:05:49 which packages i got Oct 19 02:06:10 i am telling you Oct 19 02:06:41 i asked you? Oct 19 02:06:52 i think not Oct 19 02:06:53 i didn't ask that Oct 19 02:07:15 03:20 < pupnik> i suggest to remove package and reinstall [kismet] Oct 19 02:07:16 rsync 2.6.8-2 Oct 19 02:07:27 plonk! Oct 19 02:07:35 and what pupnik Oct 19 02:08:02 it is night here in italy Oct 19 02:08:55 it is too cold and i am in the middle of a street Oct 19 02:09:34 to sniff the connection with the nokia 770 Oct 19 02:10:03 my hands are iceberg Oct 19 02:11:31 and i am using xchat whit little fonts Oct 19 02:12:29 and is possibile that i have not understood what you asked me pupnik Oct 19 02:13:44 pupnik is saying, remove kismet and reinstall it Oct 19 02:13:58 i think to turn back to home it is too much cold Oct 19 02:14:15 i just do it Oct 19 02:14:37 whitout any success Oct 19 02:15:14 i try again another time Oct 19 02:17:33 i removed Oct 19 02:17:51 and i installed Oct 19 02:18:16 there is not any difference Oct 19 02:18:37 as i just said you Oct 19 02:19:03 the problem remain Oct 19 02:19:38 i wasn't telling you to do it, i was telling you what pupnik said Oct 19 02:23:12 ok Oct 19 02:23:17 tnx Oct 19 02:23:35 my nokia 770 Oct 19 02:23:46 is locked Oct 19 02:23:59 i can't update Oct 19 02:24:47 if i write apt-get update Oct 19 02:25:01 apt-get dist-upgrade Oct 19 02:25:24 i receive this messagge Oct 19 02:27:08 E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - op) Oct 19 02:27:54 Pavlz: on your nokia, is the application manager open? Oct 19 02:29:41 E: Unable to lock the administration director? Oct 19 02:29:57 yes there are Oct 19 02:30:14 but it's very Oct 19 02:30:22 strange Oct 19 02:30:43 close the application manager on your nokia Oct 19 02:30:50 then do apt-get update Oct 19 02:31:07 cannot have application manager open or else it will lock apt-get Oct 19 02:31:28 that i can't to work in multitasking Oct 19 02:31:51 too the www ? Oct 19 02:33:59 ok Oct 19 02:34:44 but it has only updated the browser Oct 19 02:35:04 and to update the kernel ? Oct 19 02:38:03 as kernel version i got 2.6.16.27-omap1 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 19 02:59:58 2007