**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Oct 25 02:59:57 2007
Oct 25 03:31:01 <j_ck> just for the record - n800 is again up and running. The trick was to remove the battery for 10secs, and it booted normaly. Wouldn't expect that trick to work
Oct 25 03:31:17 <|R> what happened?
Oct 25 03:31:27 <j_ck> it just stoped working. plain dead
Oct 25 03:32:38 <j_ck> the last thing i did to it was to lock the touch screen, and after that it made no sign of life until I toke out the battery
Oct 25 03:32:56 <j_ck> *toke == took
Oct 25 03:39:28 <GeneralAntilles> Did you press the power button to unlock it? :\
Oct 25 03:42:36 <|R> hehe
Oct 25 03:57:00 <j_ck> GeneralAntilles, yes, several times, but that won't do the trick
Oct 25 04:34:14 <tranqil> has anyone changed hildon navigator plugins on the n800?
Oct 25 04:54:34 * |R just corrupted a friend into getting an n800 :P
Oct 25 04:54:52 <GeneralAntilles>  /conned :P
Oct 25 04:58:43 <VimSi> |R: nice work ;)
Oct 25 05:00:10 <lopz> bye
Oct 25 05:00:13 <GeneralAntilles> Lot of new users lately.
Oct 25 05:00:22 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully some of them are devs.
Oct 25 05:00:34 <|R> hehe
Oct 25 05:01:36 <|R> there is no | caracter in the onscreen keyboard or am i mad?
Oct 25 05:02:20 <GeneralAntilles> It's in one of the accent panels
Oct 25 05:02:23 <GeneralAntilles> Which is retarded
Oct 25 05:02:30 <|R> only in the thumb mode though
Oct 25 05:02:46 <|R> ah no ok
Oct 25 05:02:52 <|R> weird
Oct 25 05:02:53 <|R> hehe
Oct 25 05:03:09 <GeneralAntilles> In stylus it's accents - > symbols middle right
Oct 25 05:06:10 <|R> so i'll be able to video chat with someone soon :P
Oct 25 05:06:20 <|R> Is the Instant messaging client the one with video?
Oct 25 05:06:31 <|R> (i used pidgin up till now because i was alone with my cam ;)
Oct 25 05:06:39 <npt> how do i get root on the xterminal so I can apt-get update?
Oct 25 05:07:21 <|R> npt : sudo su - ? ssh root@localhost ?
Oct 25 05:07:40 <npt> but i don't know the password to the n800
Oct 25 05:07:48 <|R> have you installed ssh?
Oct 25 05:07:56 <npt> yes
Oct 25 05:08:06 <|R> ok, the default is root / rootme
Oct 25 05:08:14 <|R> change it ;)
Oct 25 05:08:15 <npt> thanks a lot
Oct 25 05:08:15 <_Monkey> |R: that doesn't look right
Oct 25 05:09:26 <npt> |R that didn't work
Oct 25 05:09:31 <npt> at least not sudo su
Oct 25 05:09:31 <czr> sudo gainroot
Oct 25 05:10:52 <npt> czr: I do that, and it says to enable RD mode to break my device
Oct 25 05:11:02 <npt> do i have to do the red pill thing first?
Oct 25 05:11:14 <czr> ah.
Oct 25 05:11:18 <|R> hehe
Oct 25 05:11:19 <czr> or
Oct 25 05:11:22 <|R> just go with ssh
Oct 25 05:11:23 <czr> you could install sshd
Oct 25 05:11:29 <czr> then login as root@device
Oct 25 05:11:32 <czr> using pwd rootme
Oct 25 05:11:37 <npt> already did
Oct 25 05:11:37 <npt> ok
Oct 25 05:11:39 <npt> just sec
Oct 25 05:11:40 <|R> and then add the sudo line to /etc/sudoers you can find on maemo.org guides or other places
Oct 25 05:11:51 <|R> then you ll be able to sudo su -
Oct 25 05:12:11 <|R> (oh and set a passwd for "user" i think, otherwise it won't work)
Oct 25 05:12:17 <|R> uh no
Oct 25 05:12:19 <|R> scrap the last line ;)
Oct 25 05:12:20 <npt> thanks!
Oct 25 05:12:27 <|R> just sudoers should do
Oct 25 05:12:41 <|R> user ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
Oct 25 05:12:42 <|R> root ALL = (ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL
Oct 25 05:12:49 <|R> this, to the end of the file..
Oct 25 05:13:32 <czr> hmh. I wonder what has caused all the sudden increase in intrest for snmp/graphviz/network/topology-tools in google
Oct 25 05:13:46 <czr> getting hit by that. not too badly, but more than normally.
Oct 25 05:24:31 <Andy80> hi
Oct 25 05:38:12 <|R> woah, my friend got his n800 tonight by the ncix special sale... and they're all gone now (sold out!)
Oct 25 05:39:29 <GeneralAntilles> $$?
Oct 25 05:54:23 <|R> was 275$... tonight at 250$ CAD .. and now 329$ ... go figure :)
Oct 25 05:55:43 <Rask330> o.O
Oct 25 05:55:50 <Rask330> I got mine for $230 at buy.com
Oct 25 05:55:56 <Rask330> (USD)
Oct 25 05:58:43 <Andy80> Rask330: I wish they shipped also outside USA :(
Oct 25 05:58:51 <Andy80> (I live in Italy)
Oct 25 05:59:19 <Rask330> What about amazon?  They were pretty cheap too, I seem to remember...
Oct 25 05:59:35 <Andy80> they don't sheep hardware to Italy too -__-
Oct 25 05:59:42 <Andy80> only books!
Oct 25 05:59:48 <Andy80> I already tried
Oct 25 06:00:55 <Rask330> :(
Oct 25 06:01:14 <Rask330> Import/export laws are well beyond my skill to comprehend...
Oct 25 06:02:44 <Andy80> it would be great if I could buy from USA in this way.... 1$ = 1,40 €
Oct 25 06:02:50 <Andy80> :)
Oct 25 06:03:26 <Rask330> Yeah, the US dollar is just... embarrassing right now.
Oct 25 06:03:40 <Andy80> but... in this case Apple sucks: 1$ = 1€ !!! :(
Oct 25 06:05:31 <Rask330> It just makes me sad-- when I last went to europe several years back, one US dollar was equal to one Euro.
Oct 25 06:05:47 <Rask330> I should've converted all my savings into Euro XD
Oct 25 06:05:59 <Rask330> I'd have made a ton of money >.<
Oct 25 06:06:17 <Rask330> 140% is nothing to sneeze at..
Oct 25 06:08:17 <Andy80> well... don't be so sad after all... you know what is the medium salary here :) ???
Oct 25 06:08:54 <Rask330> What is it?
Oct 25 06:09:00 <Rask330> Though, I have nothing to compare it to...
Oct 25 06:09:42 <Andy80> assuming you work for 40 hours weekly, you can earn from 850€ to 1000€ at month!
Oct 25 06:09:56 <Andy80> this is the salary of the 60-70% people here -__-
Oct 25 06:10:04 <czr> pre-tax?
Oct 25 06:10:13 <Andy80> already taxed....
Oct 25 06:10:20 <czr> ah.
Oct 25 06:10:33 <Andy80> I think it's not so much...
Oct 25 06:10:47 <czr> in finland the average would be closer to 1900 or smt close
Oct 25 06:11:26 <czr> people working in it generally get more than the average though.
Oct 25 06:11:30 <Rask330> Is that country-wide?
Oct 25 06:11:34 <roope> the average wage in 2005 in finland is 2500 euro.
Oct 25 06:11:42 <czr> roope, yeah, pre-tax
Oct 25 06:11:48 <roope> yes. after-tax 1705 euro.
Oct 25 06:11:50 <roope> says Tilastokeskus.
Oct 25 06:11:59 <czr> ah, cool. thanks for the rectification
Oct 25 06:11:59 <Rask330> Hm..
Oct 25 06:12:07 <Andy80> roope: it's still so much for me :)
Oct 25 06:12:25 <Rask330> I'm trying to find out what it is for the US... but I only have breakdowns by city, state, or profession..
Oct 25 06:12:45 <roope> Probably ... Well, yes, it's an interesting question.
Oct 25 06:12:50 <roope> The spread is probably much wider.
Oct 25 06:12:51 <Andy80> off course there is also people here that earn 2.000 / 2.500 € but they manage a small-medium company or they are consultant...
Oct 25 06:12:54 <czr> it is
Oct 25 06:13:14 <Rask330> The median annual salary in Pennsylvania is USD 56066 == EUR 39306...
Oct 25 06:13:50 <Rask330> =3276/month
Oct 25 06:13:55 <Rask330> But that's before taxes.
Oct 25 06:14:05 <roope> And before things like medical insurance etc. :)
Oct 25 06:14:17 <Andy80> Rask330: how much are the taxes there :) ??? here is about 50% !!!!
Oct 25 06:14:36 <Rask330> I'm not really in a good position to tell you-- I'm a student now so I don't work full time x)
Oct 25 06:14:48 <Andy80> I'm a student too at the moment...
Oct 25 06:14:54 <Andy80> and belive me... it's not easy!
Oct 25 06:15:44 <c0ffee> i doubt it's 50% taxes
Oct 25 06:15:53 <c0ffee> it's a common misconception
Oct 25 06:15:57 <Andy80> a student here has to pay a lot of things.... annual university tax (about 1.000 euros.... ok ok... I know that USA univerities are more expensive :) ), you have to pay for transport ecc....
Oct 25 06:16:04 <c0ffee> normally, a big part is deduced for insurances etc
Oct 25 06:16:08 <c0ffee> but that aren't taxes
Oct 25 06:18:04 <Rask330> My tuition is something like... 18000 to 20000 a year.
Oct 25 06:18:07 <Andy80> c0ffee: belive me... if I started to work again, earnng 8-900 euros/month I won't be able to live alone. it's enough if you still live with your parents but it's not enough to live alone. the smallest apartment here costs about 450 €/month....
Oct 25 06:18:10 <Rask330> (USD)
Oct 25 06:20:07 <Andy80> the problem here is that the 90% people that work in a own activity don't pay taxes! for example... if a consultant or a doctor earn 5.000€ he declares "I earned only 1.000"... understand the problem :) ??
Oct 25 06:26:37 <Andy80> (I left you without words :S )
Oct 25 06:26:56 <czr> we're too busy calling the policy and tax authorities, give us a sec.
Oct 25 06:27:00 <czr> police even.
Oct 25 06:27:23 <Andy80> ahahha :D
Oct 25 06:27:41 <Andy80> you don't need to do it :) it's written, every day, on all newspaper :)
Oct 25 06:28:03 <czr> we told them to ask you about your doctor and consultant friends :-)
Oct 25 06:28:19 <Andy80> :D
Oct 25 06:29:07 <Andy80> and I didn't mention the famous people :)
Oct 25 06:29:27 <Andy80> I think you read something about Valentino Rossi taxes issue :P
Oct 25 06:29:50 <czr> ah, that's why he drives so fast
Oct 25 06:29:54 <czr> to escape.
Oct 25 06:30:10 <czr> poor man doesn't know that a race circuit isn't the best place to escape to.
Oct 25 06:30:34 <Andy80> shortly... is it possible, with a complicated organization, to earn money here in Italy, to move your residence outside Italy and transfer money outside...
Oct 25 06:30:45 <Andy80> so he doesn't pay any taxes
Oct 25 06:31:04 <czr> sure it's possible.
Oct 25 06:31:14 <Andy80> but he's not the only one that does it.... the 99,9999% of famous people here, does it.
Oct 25 06:31:40 <czr> you need to become famous then :-)
Oct 25 06:36:11 <Andy80> mmm.... too complicated... I simply want to marry Paris Hilton :D
Oct 25 06:36:48 <czr> well. become a maemo hacker then
Oct 25 06:36:57 <czr> they get all the chicks/guys they want. so I hear.
Oct 25 06:37:07 <Andy80> :D
Oct 25 06:37:37 <pupnik> Tommy Chong
Oct 25 06:37:49 <Andy80> I'm writing a simple howto that explain hot to install maemo sdk 4 beta... if it can help :) (I'm finishing writing it at the moment...)
Oct 25 06:39:10 <pupnik> http://youtube.com/watch?v=-lKfm8qA0CI  Tommy Chong on Paris Hilton
Oct 25 06:39:47 <Rask330> Eeeww.
Oct 25 06:39:55 <Rask330> Andy80, you want to marry Paris Hilton?
Oct 25 06:40:29 <Andy80> Rask330: she's so pretty, she has a lot of money... why not :D ???
Oct 25 06:40:31 <czr> Rask330, he lives in italy.
Oct 25 06:40:48 <czr> I guess paris is hot over there :-)
Oct 25 06:40:50 <Rask330> The money I can understand... buuut... eeeugh.
Oct 25 06:41:20 <pupnik> you gotta see the youtube clip
Oct 25 06:41:24 <Rask330> She is emblematic of everything that is wrong with being too rich for your own good.  c.c;
Oct 25 06:41:47 <Rask330> She's a spoiled-rotten brat and I hope she gets an STD.  c.c;
Oct 25 06:42:12 <czr> yes. I hope the IETF will name a standard after her as well!
Oct 25 06:42:14 * czr hides & runs
Oct 25 06:42:53 <c0ffee> i'd bet she already has a few stds
Oct 25 06:43:57 <Andy80> sdt = ?
Oct 25 06:44:12 <c0ffee> sexually transmitable disease
Oct 25 06:46:40 <czr> special tinkering device
Oct 25 06:50:19 * timelyx sighs
Oct 25 06:50:39 * Rask330 calls it a night.
Oct 25 06:50:44 <Andy80> ok... I finished the howto: http://www.ptlug.org/wiki/Howto_Installing_Maemo_SDK_4_Beta
Oct 25 06:50:44 <timelyx> sdt = typo
Oct 25 06:51:05 <Andy80> I would be glad if you read it and submit me any error :)
Oct 25 06:51:32 <czr> Andy80, you could always announce it on the devel list as well
Oct 25 06:51:35 <czr> if it's good enough
Oct 25 06:51:48 <Andy80> and... if someone want to link/post on Planet Maemo I would be glad too
Oct 25 06:51:48 <czr> at least it would be welcome change to the localization emails.
Oct 25 06:51:57 <c0ffee> :)
Oct 25 06:51:57 <Andy80> ok, I'll submit on -devel ML now...
Oct 25 06:53:43 <czr> Andy80, you can also add to the email, "Paris, if you're reading this, marry me!"
Oct 25 06:53:49 <czr> never hurts to try you know.
Oct 25 06:54:07 <czr> hmm. that would be a scary email signature.
Oct 25 06:54:49 <Andy80> :D
Oct 25 06:55:53 <pupnik> Nice job Andy80
Oct 25 06:56:08 * timelyx sends Andy80 a list of typos
Oct 25 06:56:23 <Andy80> pupnik: thanks
Oct 25 06:56:54 <Andy80> timelyx: you can fix them if you want :) it's a wiki! :) you only have to register to it
Oct 25 06:57:14 <timelyx> i hate wikis and registration
Oct 25 06:57:33 <Andy80> ok, then send me a mail :)
Oct 25 06:58:16 * timelyx looks for the right gmail user
Oct 25 06:59:21 <Andy80> czr: it would be nice to switch the interface from Hildon to... Hilton :D I think I'll submit this on bugzilla ;)
Oct 25 06:59:40 <czr> you don't know how many times I mistyped that when i started with maemo
Oct 25 06:59:45 <czr> way too many.
Oct 25 07:00:24 <timelyx> Andy80: sent
Oct 25 07:02:54 <Andy80> thanks... I'm fixing them...
Oct 25 07:26:40 * timelyx sighs
Oct 25 07:26:47 * timelyx hopes this Qt4 project is veto'd
Oct 25 07:26:56 <timelyx> assuming ITOS2008 has a keyboard *grumble*
Oct 25 07:27:08 <pupnik> oh noes kde?
Oct 25 07:28:32 <pupnik> i dunno if the maemo community can properly support both qt/gtk
Oct 25 07:30:55 <mk8> Hi to all .... :)
Oct 25 07:43:23 <teprrr> which qt4 project are you talking about?
Oct 25 07:54:16 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 25 08:21:29 <Jaffa> maddler: ping
Oct 25 08:29:42 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Oct 25 08:30:51 <Sho_> timelyx: hm, qt4 project?
Oct 25 08:31:25 <Jaffa> A random and intriguing (and, as he implies, worrying) comment from timelyx ther.
Oct 25 08:34:05 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 25 08:34:23 <timely_changelog> i read the garage.maemo.org approval queue
Oct 25 08:34:27 <pupnik> http://images.stage6.com/channel_images/refuselife/46b04019063ef.jpg   DOS humor (sfw)
Oct 25 08:34:33 <timely_changelog> so i see dumb requests before they're approved/rejected
Oct 25 08:34:44 <Jaffa> pupnik: heh
Oct 25 08:34:54 * flip^ peers in
Oct 25 08:35:07 <Jaffa> timely_changelog: I'd hate to see the dumb requests which've been *rejected* ;-/
Oct 25 08:35:09 <timely_changelog> sho_: anyone can ask garage to host a project
Oct 25 08:35:18 <timely_changelog> jaffa: i have a very short memory :)
Oct 25 08:35:23 <timely_changelog> but my gmail box never forgets :)
Oct 25 08:35:27 <disq> :)
Oct 25 08:35:51 <flip^> Is it actually possible to record video with a n800... I've seen evidence of it done, but can't find any software to actually do it?
Oct 25 08:36:09 <timely_changelog> flip: i think someone hacked the Camera app to do it
Oct 25 08:36:17 <Sho_> timely_changelog: and the project in question is veto-worthy because it is related to qt4?
Oct 25 08:36:23 <timely_changelog> sho: no
Oct 25 08:36:42 <timely_changelog> i's veto worthy because it asserts that they don't need VKB support given the n810 has a keyboard
Oct 25 08:36:52 <timely_changelog> even though ITOS2008 runs on n800s
Oct 25 08:37:05 <Sho_> timely_changelog: ah. yeah, I agree.
Oct 25 08:37:14 <timely_changelog> and btw, i generally use my n810(proto) w/ the keyboard closed
Oct 25 08:37:30 <timely_changelog> i only open it when i need to access the menu key while in full screen mode
Oct 25 08:37:34 * timely_changelog kicks the hardware designers
Oct 25 08:37:39 <disq> i need a tester with chinook final(-ish) or n810. just a quick install test
Oct 25 08:37:43 <timely_changelog> otoh, that's arguably not as bad as
Oct 25 08:37:51 <timely_changelog> [while locked and keyboard collapsed]
Oct 25 08:37:56 <timely_changelog> 1. press hardware power button
Oct 25 08:38:04 <Sho_> Since I don't see myself using the hardware keyboard a lot, I'm actually somewhat happy with the d-pad being moved away from the rim
Oct 25 08:38:08 <timely_changelog> 1' press [square] to unlock
Oct 25 08:38:09 <Sho_> err
Oct 25 08:38:11 <Sho_> unhappy, that is
Oct 25 08:38:24 <timely_changelog> 2. open keyboard to reach square
Oct 25 08:38:32 <timely_changelog> 2' device unlocked
Oct 25 08:38:45 <timely_changelog> 3. close keyboard (because device is unlocked)
Oct 25 08:38:47 <timely_changelog> 3' device locked
Oct 25 08:39:07 <timely_changelog> 4. arg, how do i unlock my device? (repeat from 1 ad infinitum if you like)
Oct 25 08:40:37 <timely_changelog> anyone want to guess how to correctly achieve the goal?
Oct 25 08:40:57 <inz> timely, tap on the screen while keyboard open
Oct 25 08:40:58 <inz> ;P
Oct 25 08:41:07 <timely_changelog> inz: does that work?
Oct 25 08:41:16 <inz> timely, it should
Oct 25 08:41:19 <Jaffa> Isn't there some kind of lock button on the top of the device now?
Oct 25 08:41:36 <disq> it should cancel the auto-lock-me flag
Oct 25 08:41:43 <timely_changelog> jaffa: the one in the protos is a gag, afaict
Oct 25 08:41:50 <timely_changelog> but yes, shipping versions have a working one
Oct 25 08:42:17 <timely_changelog> disq/inz: no one considered adding an info banner for this?
Oct 25 08:42:33 <timely_changelog> and did anyone consider that the tray migh open in my pocket
Oct 25 08:42:39 <timely_changelog> and would probably have the screen bumped...
Oct 25 08:42:47 <inz> timely, the "lock key" is the primary trigger on n810
Oct 25 08:43:11 * timely_changelog looks for an inz/fi=>en translator
Oct 25 08:43:18 <disq> i'm not affiliated with nokia/osso man
Oct 25 08:44:45 <timely_changelog> sorry
Oct 25 08:45:09 <disq> :) why, no need to be
Oct 25 08:45:52 <timely_changelog> inz: lol
Oct 25 08:46:16 * timely_changelog sighs
Oct 25 08:46:51 * timely_changelog wonders if inz sees tha tab
Oct 25 08:47:46 <inz> tha tab?
Oct 25 08:48:05 <timely_changelog> my t key is flakey, 'that'
Oct 25 09:25:49 <disq> ooh sardine has a sdk bootlogo now
Oct 25 09:26:06 * timely_changelog should probably build another sardine xref
Oct 25 09:26:44 <disq> i think it doesn't have ssh tho. when i try to install ssh it tries to remove some "core" packages
Oct 25 09:27:17 <timely_changelog> nice
Oct 25 09:28:40 <disq> mm. latest doesn't have terminal or connectivity. or i messed up the upgrade
Oct 25 09:36:03 <timely_changelog> sp3000: your changes are official :), thanks
Oct 25 09:36:17 * timely_changelog tries to remember how to pull sardine
Oct 25 09:37:44 <disq> i got to install xterm. still, all the tray plugins are gone. all the cp applets except screen calibration is gone. weird. maybe the new ones are not up due to the chinook roll yet
Oct 25 09:38:30 * timely_changelog sighs
Oct 25 09:38:45 <timely_changelog> ok, i think i know how i want my get_sardine script to work
Oct 25 09:39:19 <disq> i just do apt-get upgrade and then see the kept back packages and install them manually (and their deps) until all are installed
Oct 25 09:39:35 <timely_changelog> you're installing binaries
Oct 25 09:39:37 <timely_changelog> i'm grabbing sources
Oct 25 09:39:40 <disq> there's probably a flag for an easier way but never got around to finding it
Oct 25 09:39:48 * timely_changelog has no use for binaries
Oct 25 09:40:42 <timely_changelog> sp3000: how does this look:
Oct 25 09:40:48 <timely_changelog> if test -z "SKIPOPEN"; then
Oct 25 09:40:53 <timely_changelog> $PRINT deb http://repository.maemo.org/sardine unstable main non-free >> $SRCLST
Oct 25 09:41:01 <timely_changelog> $PRINT deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/sardine unstable main non-free >> $SR
Oct 25 09:41:02 <timely_changelog> CLST
Oct 25 09:41:05 <disq> on another note, xephyr inside Xvnc is acting up, I only see the green channel in my chinook beta sdk :) still can test stuff, just not as colorful
Oct 25 09:41:09 <timely_changelog> #(oops)
Oct 25 09:41:17 <timely_changelog> fi
Oct 25 09:41:22 <timely_changelog> if test "$CLOSED"; then
Oct 25 09:41:24 <timely_changelog> #...
Oct 25 09:41:25 <timely_changelog> fi
Oct 25 09:42:12 <disq> so the microb start page is final now, eh :)
Oct 25 09:42:23 <timely_changelog> disq: yes
Oct 25 09:42:30 <timely_changelog> at least for the next 2 weeks
Oct 25 09:42:50 <timely_changelog> i want sp3000 to give us another refresh for the next beta
Oct 25 09:43:14 <disq> neat
Oct 25 09:43:50 <timely_changelog> wow
Oct 25 09:43:59 <timely_changelog> microsoft knows that ff2.0.0.8 is latest
Oct 25 09:44:06 * timely_changelog should be impressed
Oct 25 09:44:21 <timely_changelog> http://wer.microsoft.com/responses/Response.aspx/1778/en-us/5.1.2600.2.00010100.2.0?SGD=e337878d-0beb-4adb-a87f-48f0b369e5c8
Oct 25 09:44:53 <disq> careful, could be a trick :P
Oct 25 09:45:10 <timely_changelog> link looks correct
Oct 25 09:58:50 <timely_changelog> sp3000: http://swift/sardine-20071025/source/
Oct 25 09:59:23 <timely_changelog> (anyone who can read that, can you tell me if anything there is smelly?)
Oct 25 09:59:55 <timely_changelog> fwiw, openssh did end up in that list...
Oct 25 10:01:38 <disq> http://swift/ is smelly
Oct 25 10:01:47 <timely_changelog> yes, well
Oct 25 10:19:25 <inz> timely, can't open glimpse index-file
Oct 25 10:22:04 <timely_changelog> yes, it's building the index now :(
Oct 25 10:22:25 <timely_changelog> sorry, that's an expesnive operation, it should be done in hrmm... how big is sardine?
Oct 25 10:22:49 <timely_changelog> 1gb, give it 10-15mins?
Oct 25 10:22:51 <Jiten> ok, I had n800 with x terminal open, with the shell in /media/mmc2, also, I had the keyboard locked, well, I forgot about the shell and plug in the usb cable. now the damn thing won't unlock :/
Oct 25 10:22:58 <timely_changelog> for the search, maybe another 30 for the xref
Oct 25 10:23:35 <Jiten> won't register the second button in the unlock combination
Oct 25 10:23:53 <timely_changelog> jiten: ouch
Oct 25 10:24:15 <Jiten> I guess this dialog is blocking it and it's blocking the dialog ok-button
Oct 25 10:24:32 <Jiten> and to top it all, I had it in offline mode.
Oct 25 10:24:37 <timely_changelog> heh
Oct 25 10:25:03 <Jiten> I can't even shut it down ... I guess I have to remove the battery
Oct 25 10:25:30 <timely_changelog> 5s on power button doesn't work?
Oct 25 10:25:53 <Jiten> no reaction, besides asking for the second button of the unlock mechanism
Oct 25 10:28:08 <Jiten> well, at least it seems to work after booting it up again.
Oct 25 10:29:59 <Jiten> I guess there is some signal programs should react to when the system wants to detach the SD-cards?
Oct 25 10:31:09 <Jaffa> yep
Oct 25 10:33:29 <Jiten> I'll file a bug when I have time ... if I remember.
Oct 25 10:35:21 <vladan> hi all. Scratchbox/maemo on Fedora seems to be not so good combo, right? I can't get maemo 4.0 beta to install...
Oct 25 10:38:58 <vladan> can anyone help me? Setting up libgtk2.0-bin seems to fail.
Oct 25 10:54:17 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpAj0jHglGw  OpenGL cell shading on handheld PowerVR device
Oct 25 10:54:57 <Jaffa> Very nice. Don't hold your breath.
Oct 25 10:55:35 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkx18kruRJs  another one
Oct 25 10:57:17 <Jaffa> That says it's running on a Linux 2.6 kernel. Of course, we'd still be screwed by the video bandwidth AIUI
Oct 25 10:57:40 <gla55> nice
Oct 25 11:02:24 <pupnik> It's a handmade unit, with an ARM11 cpu and OpenGL ES 1.1
Oct 25 11:03:12 <pupnik> i.mx31
Oct 25 11:05:41 <gla55> was wondering about that
Oct 25 11:18:10 <pupnik> Markus Tremmel, worldwide OMAP ecosystem manager at Texas Instruments Inc spills the beans!  "The processor runs at 550 MHz, versus 330 MHz for OMAP2 processors."  http://www.eetimes.eu/germany/202404799
Oct 25 11:25:59 <Jaffa> mediaserv 0.03 should have MythTV and Freevo support :-) MythTV is easier than I expected
Oct 25 11:26:11 <pupnik> nice
Oct 25 11:54:24 <lopz> buenos dias
Oct 25 12:03:57 <chelli> hi, does anyone know where to find some kind of information/tutorial/code examples about PyGconf, i can't realy find anything useful? :)
Oct 25 12:05:46 <sciboy> Damn. MicroB is crashing on startup.
Oct 25 12:08:14 <sciboy> I'll wait for IT2008 before I bother bug reporting.
Oct 25 12:33:22 <alterego> Interesting.
Oct 25 13:08:55 <alterego> Appearantly ARM are fronting their own mobile OS based on Gnome mobile technologies.
Oct 25 13:09:04 <pupnik_> these guys do beautiful work with procedural textures http://www.theprodukkt.com/debris
Oct 25 13:09:04 <alterego> (and Linux)
Oct 25 13:09:11 <pupnik_> access?
Oct 25 13:09:30 <alterego> Meant for next generation phones though it seems.
Oct 25 13:09:36 <flip^> they're the guys that did the 64k demo that i was very impressed by iirc pupnik_
Oct 25 13:09:57 <flip^> first time someone used directx in a 64k demo iirc
Oct 25 13:14:14 <pupnik_> yeah
Oct 25 13:15:21 <pupnik_> I am excited about lsystems (procedural plants) and procedural landscape modeling as well.
Oct 25 13:15:42 <pupnik_> Xfrog sells beautiful procedural plant software
Oct 25 13:16:38 <pupnik_> These procedural textures would be nice for homebrew 3D games on portables
Oct 25 13:22:06 <alterego> Procedural generating in Games is awesome.
Oct 25 13:22:12 <alterego> ~generation ..
Oct 25 13:22:56 <pupnik_> Yeah i really liked arena/daggerfall.  Though both could have used some more variation.
Oct 25 13:23:03 <Tak> TES++
Oct 25 13:23:20 <gla55> daggerfall was fun
Oct 25 13:23:27 <pupnik_> Also you might recall Starflight and Star Control 2, which had nice procedural planets.
Oct 25 13:23:29 <solmumaha> daggerfall <3
Oct 25 13:23:33 <gla55> aaa starflight :)
Oct 25 13:23:46 <alterego> I used to be very into game development. Then I stopped playing games and just kind of did things I felt like doing.
Oct 25 13:23:50 <gla55> starflight should run with dosbox, no?
Oct 25 13:24:08 <pupnik_> haven't tested, but it ran on 4.77mhz PCs
Oct 25 13:24:25 <alterego> 4.7 Mhz?!
Oct 25 13:24:26 <gla55> pupnik_: one shouldn't forget frontier or frontier:first encounters either
Oct 25 13:24:28 <pupnik_> I still have the 5.25 starflight disks.
Oct 25 13:24:34 <gla55> i've lost mine
Oct 25 13:24:36 <pupnik_> didn't play them
Oct 25 13:24:50 <gla55> played on a 8mhz
Oct 25 13:25:49 <gla55> frontier was awesome.. with it's whole planets
Oct 25 13:29:57 <wumpus> yeah frontier was a very nice game :)
Oct 25 13:30:06 <wumpus> also buggy, but still
Oct 25 13:30:35 <alterego> Frontier, was that Elite II ?
Oct 25 13:31:14 <solmumaha> pupnik_: have you tried daggerfall with dosbox on pc?
Oct 25 13:32:26 <alterego> Nice to see the chinook documentation section is growing.
Oct 25 13:33:09 <gla55>  yeah
Oct 25 13:33:17 <gla55> frontier: elita II was official title iirc
Oct 25 13:33:22 <gla55> elite
Oct 25 13:33:33 <alterego> Right
Oct 25 13:33:35 <gla55> shame about the few bugs though
Oct 25 13:33:39 <pupnik_> solmumaha: yes - got tired of the endless dungeons though
Oct 25 13:33:46 <gla55> and it left you to want mooooreeee of course
Oct 25 13:33:50 <solmumaha> but it works ok?
Oct 25 13:34:12 <alterego> Hmm ..
Oct 25 13:34:17 <pupnik_> yes dosbox fixed the dynarec incompatibility with daggerfall around 2003-2004
Oct 25 13:34:31 <solmumaha> i tried it on my wifes xp, it had bad control problems
Oct 25 13:35:02 <pupnik_> did you see math/3d tile-mapping errors?
Oct 25 13:35:12 <solmumaha> good to know, must try it on my macbook someday
Oct 25 13:35:41 <solmumaha> no, only control problems, ran it natively
Oct 25 14:06:02 <cosmo> anyone know how to debug a library that has external debugging symbols (in -dbg.deb)?
Oct 25 14:08:41 <mgedmin> install the -dbg.deb
Oct 25 14:08:58 <mgedmin> gdb knows to look for debugging symbols in /usr/lib/debug/
Oct 25 14:14:02 <cosmo> for some reason it doesn't
Oct 25 14:14:31 <cosmo> bt prints only lines like #0  0xb7ad16b4 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libxxXxxx.so.0
Oct 25 14:14:56 <cosmo> the debug files exist in /usr/lib/debug/
Oct 25 14:16:44 <mgedmin> and you have libxxXxxx-dbg installed?
Oct 25 14:17:02 <mgedmin> maybe 0xb7ad16b4 is not a valid address
Oct 25 14:17:15 <mgedmin> is this on arm or on x86?
Oct 25 14:17:40 <mgedmin> iirc you need special gcc flags on arm to get debuggable code
Oct 25 14:17:54 <cosmo> x86
Oct 25 14:18:40 <cosmo> and the debugging package is installed (it installs the files in /usr/lib/debug/)
Oct 25 14:28:09 <oyvind> hello, are there a intigrated firewall on maemo?
Oct 25 14:31:32 <oyvind> so i can log into my bank edeting my account etc.
Oct 25 14:32:02 <zoran> oyvind, do you think "iptables"?
Oct 25 14:34:09 <oyvind> Not sure if iptables is included on maemo, i dont own an n800 or so, just doing some research. If so, is iptables preconfigured
Oct 25 14:34:36 <zoran> hm, yes and no
Oct 25 14:34:49 <zoran> and I have 770
Oct 25 14:37:40 <oyvind> I use linux, but not so long so i dont have very big commandline skills, is it hard work configuring iptables or are there tools that can do all the work, like firestarter or guarddog?
Oct 25 14:39:31 <zoran> my opinion is that iptables on this gadget is not intended to work as classical firewall. It should stop and continue traffic of/from the device. works fine for stateless traffic. No nat and conntrack modules. so, no stateful.
Oct 25 14:42:30 <oyvind> ok, thanks
Oct 25 14:42:47 <zoran> np
Oct 25 14:45:44 <zpol> hi
Oct 25 14:45:45 <_Monkey> bonjour, zpol
Oct 25 14:49:41 <Jaffa> Screenshot of mediaserv's (in-progress) Freevo & MythTV recording support: http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/mediaserv3.png
Oct 25 14:50:33 <cosmo> Jaffa: excellent
Oct 25 14:51:06 <keesj> the IT crowd rulez
Oct 25 14:52:46 <Jaffa> Indeed it does :)
Oct 25 15:00:44 <keesj> I really wonder how many open-source developers there are and how many are wanting to spend time on maemo
Oct 25 15:02:08 <||cw> Jaffa: with your first version I wasn't able to stream anything to the 770's player
Oct 25 15:02:58 <||cw> and I wasn't able to save to mmc until it had finished encoding, it would always stop part way through
Oct 25 15:03:52 <Jaffa> ||cw: that should be fixed - there was a rather obvious bug. Although I don't have an IT OS 2006 device to test with. Apparently the current version works very well with IT OS 2007HE
Oct 25 15:22:22 <playya2> hello everybody
Oct 25 15:25:35 <||cw> Jaffa: 770-encode also messes up sound, not sure why because when i use mencoder manualy it works fine
Oct 25 15:31:51 <pupnik_> keesj - not counting the anonymous workerbees at Nokia, it feels like around 100 to me.
Oct 25 15:37:13 <Jaffa> ||cw: on what platform? Any obvious differences between your mencoder line and the one 770-encode logs? Obviously that's a bug I'd like to fix...
Oct 25 15:37:50 <||cw> Jaffa: for the audio part, no, I even added a new preset that should match mine
Oct 25 15:38:06 <||cw> I didn't spend much time with it though
Oct 25 15:38:42 <Jaffa> THis on a mac?
Oct 25 15:38:49 <||cw> ubuntu 7.10
Oct 25 15:38:56 <Jaffa> Damn... same as me.
Oct 25 15:39:04 <Jaffa> Using Ubuntu's own mencoder?
Oct 25 15:39:06 <Jaffa> x86?
Oct 25 15:39:07 <||cw> yeah
Oct 25 15:40:15 <pupnik_> i agree first place to look would be differences in mencoder line
Oct 25 15:40:59 <Jaffa> Yeah. ||cw: if you get chance and wouldn't mind running it again, I'd love a copy of the output from 770-encode and your mencoder invocation directly.
Oct 25 15:41:27 <edistar> I have a problem installing python2.5 it just tells me that the installation file is broken
Oct 25 15:42:35 <edistar> can anyone help me with that?
Oct 25 15:43:55 <pupnik> i vaguely remember hearing about a package incompatibility with python, but did not pay attention
Oct 25 15:44:02 <edistar> ok
Oct 25 15:44:09 <||cw> edistar: are you using the instructions form the garage site?
Oct 25 15:44:22 <edistar> from pymaemo.garage.maemo.org
Oct 25 15:45:03 <||cw> hm, that worked for me
Oct 25 15:45:12 <||cw> installed the base first right?
Oct 25 15:45:35 <||cw> and removed the 2.4 stuff?
Oct 25 15:45:52 <edistar> I didn't have 2.4 on
Oct 25 15:46:18 <edistar> I clicked on base installer and it added repository.maemo.org bora free non-free
Oct 25 15:46:29 <edistar> and then I clicked on the next one, python 2.5 installed
Oct 25 15:46:34 <edistar> *installer
Oct 25 15:48:24 <edistar> itit dit doesn't tell me whats wrong
Oct 25 15:49:21 <edistar> oh sry, ignore the first bit..
Oct 25 15:49:42 <edistar> it only tells me that the installation file is not intact
Oct 25 15:51:56 <pupnik> application installer has a 'log' under one of the menus
Oct 25 15:52:00 <edistar> ok
Oct 25 15:52:03 <edistar> I'll check that
Oct 25 15:56:22 <edistar> it tells me failed to fetch python2.5-dbus...armel.deb: Size mismatch
Oct 25 15:56:49 <edistar> and then the same but with python2.5-gnome...armel.deb: Size mismatch aswell
Oct 25 16:05:00 <Jaffa> What an odd email to maemo-dev
Oct 25 16:09:01 <czr> Jaffa, the client/server one?
Oct 25 16:09:23 <czr> I guess someone hasn't quite grasped the concept of socket programming quite yet.
Oct 25 16:10:22 <Jaffa> Yes, but the other one from Sampo. Reads like a reply to a personal email - I had to double check the original wasn't.
Oct 25 16:14:23 <czr> hmm. didn't get the one from sampo yet. got the one from tripti
Oct 25 16:14:32 <Tak> "QEMU: stack overflow, aborting"
Oct 25 16:14:34 * Tak ...
Oct 25 16:14:57 <Tak> alterego: did you build a rake package?
Oct 25 16:15:39 * Tak remove the test cases
Oct 25 16:17:51 <sciboy> Hey is there any wiki-style software available for the N800? (And if possible my desktop)
Oct 25 16:19:07 <Tak> web browser? ;-)
Oct 25 16:19:40 <Jaffa> microb & TiddlyWiki
Oct 25 16:19:54 * mgedmin would love to have Tomboy ported to maemo
Oct 25 16:20:01 <sciboy> Never been hot on Tiddly, but I'll keep it in mind if I can't find an alternative.
Oct 25 16:20:08 * Tak <3 Trac
Oct 25 16:22:32 <alterego> Tak, nope.
Oct 25 16:23:54 <alterego> II'll need to if I plan to build more extensions
Oct 25 16:25:51 * Tak building a couple of things
Oct 25 16:26:19 <Tak> did you hear anything from the current garage ruby maintainer?
Oct 25 16:27:58 <alterego> Nope
Oct 25 16:28:16 <alterego> I've not actually spoken to him yet :)
Oct 25 16:29:34 * Tak tsk :-P
Oct 25 16:32:00 <||cw> Jaffa: hm, something seems ot have gone wrong with my mencoder or lame with my 7.04 to 7.10 update
Oct 25 16:40:08 <Jaffa> ||cw: so mencoder's fubar too now?
Oct 25 16:49:22 <czr> Jaffa, got sampos message finally. indeed, seems like he thought it was a private one :-)
Oct 25 16:49:31 <czr> at least the response seems to indicate that
Oct 25 16:52:05 <Mekin_reloaded> ||cw: mencoder-mp3 problem: try to edit the file codecs.conf in the dir /etc/mplayer/ - set the 'audiocodec mad' entry before the 'audiocodec mp3'
Oct 25 16:52:40 <keesj> tak i fixed the stack overflow in qemu when building ruby packages once
Oct 25 16:52:40 <||cw> Mekin_reloaded: I'll give that a shot, thanks
Oct 25 16:52:49 <||cw> Jaffa: yeah
Oct 25 16:53:14 <Tak> keesj: removing the huge amount of unit tests from one of the targets fixed it
Oct 25 16:54:41 <keesj> i was an option in qemu to increase the stack size. anyway . you worked around it
Oct 25 16:58:59 <Bobbywaz> is there anyone around that can help? I google'd the shit out of my problem but can't get an answer
Oct 25 16:59:12 <Bobbywaz> when I plug in my n800 in xp it says device not recognized
Oct 25 16:59:18 <Bobbywaz> in multiple computers
Oct 25 17:00:03 <Bobbywaz> it seems something went askew with the mmc drivers
Oct 25 17:00:19 <czr> Bobbywaz, what size of mmc you have?
Oct 25 17:00:25 <Bobbywaz> I installed maemo-dm, the usb networking app, but never really used it, I tried disabling it and that didn't work
Oct 25 17:00:49 <Bobbywaz> I have the newest firmware with a 8gb sdhc and a 2gb sd, I tried it without the sdhc in the unit, still didn't work
Oct 25 17:00:49 <Tak> goddamnit, my 770's in infinite-nokia-screen cycle again
Oct 25 17:02:15 <||cw> Bobbywaz: are all applications closed?
Oct 25 17:03:18 <Bobbywaz> ye
Oct 25 17:03:19 <Bobbywaz> s
Oct 25 17:03:28 <Bobbywaz> and I tried uninstalling maemo-dm
Oct 25 17:03:35 <Bobbywaz> same problem
Oct 25 17:04:22 <Bobbywaz> alright, screw this. I'll flash it
Oct 25 17:04:34 <Bobbywaz> I just need to learn how to flash it correctly, cause I don't want to be doing this every week
Oct 25 17:05:40 <Bobbywaz> I guess R&D mode is what I need to do..
Oct 25 17:10:10 <Bobbywaz> egh, I don't want to flash again
Oct 25 17:10:13 <Bobbywaz> no one has any idea?
Oct 25 17:26:53 <thiagoss-away> I'd like to send a message to the dbus to deactivate the headphone, using python, can anyone help me ?
Oct 25 17:28:04 * Tak will turn off lifeguard reset tonight
Oct 25 17:29:54 <Tak> huzzah!
Oct 25 17:30:05 <Tak> successful deb build of rubygame :-D
Oct 25 17:34:13 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 17:34:19 <alterego> I have libsdl
Oct 25 17:34:24 <alterego> It's part of ruby-maemo
Oct 25 17:34:45 <Tak> rubygame is more than just sdl bindings, though
Oct 25 17:34:52 <alterego> Yeah I know.
Oct 25 17:35:14 <Tak> biggest pita was building rake and rubygems
Oct 25 17:35:38 <alterego> I won't bother with ruby gems.
Oct 25 17:36:20 <Tak> Rakefile:1:require 'rubygems'  :-/
Oct 25 17:36:26 <alterego> Heh
Oct 25 17:36:58 <alterego> Good luck using gems on a real device :P
Oct 25 17:37:07 <Tak> nah, that was just to build
Oct 25 17:37:20 <alterego> Unless you like lots of tea breaks.
Oct 25 17:37:51 <Tak> it's a build-dep, not a dep ;-)
Oct 25 17:38:24 <alterego> context.rpc.run(:application => 'osso_browser', :method => 'load_uri', :arguments => ['google.co.uk'])
Oct 25 17:38:25 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 17:39:05 <alterego> I've almost finished documenting libosso.
Oct 25 17:39:25 <Tak> nice
Oct 25 17:39:37 <czr> application?
Oct 25 17:40:00 <alterego> Yes, it's used to choose between a call with defaults or not.
Oct 25 17:40:01 <czr> ah. you're passing that directly to libosso
Oct 25 17:40:31 <czr> of trust me, I know. just wondered for a moment why you called it application and not service or well-known name. but then realized that the name comes from libosso api :-)
Oct 25 17:40:47 <alterego> context.rpc.run does: run, run_async and run/async_run-with-defaults
Oct 25 17:41:03 <czr> alterego, you know of any documentation on all the d-bus stuffs available so far? a nice single list.
Oct 25 17:41:06 <alterego> Ah yes
Oct 25 17:41:14 <alterego> No, not really :/
Oct 25 17:41:17 <czr> me neither
Oct 25 17:41:24 <alterego> There's libdbus API documentation
Oct 25 17:41:28 <czr> I added emulation of the device mode in the material though
Oct 25 17:41:34 <czr> that's not what I mean
Oct 25 17:41:39 <czr> I mean stuff like osso_browser and such
Oct 25 17:41:44 <alterego> Ah, no.
Oct 25 17:41:54 <alterego> I'd love a service API ..
Oct 25 17:42:02 <czr> service api?
Oct 25 17:42:05 <czr> or you mean reference?
Oct 25 17:42:14 <alterego> API reference :P
Oct 25 17:42:20 <czr> indeed.
Oct 25 17:42:25 <czr> me too. it doesn't exist. yet.
Oct 25 17:42:38 <czr> I almost generated one hoping I could get enough stuff using d-bus introspection
Oct 25 17:42:46 <alterego> I suppose now the browser is OSS and not Opera at least that's one element easily checked off :)
Oct 25 17:42:55 <czr> but the available d-bus trinkets hide their introspection stuff on purpose.
Oct 25 17:43:09 <czr> which is slightly PITA and a shame.
Oct 25 17:43:12 <alterego> Yeah, Introspection has to be added at the application level I believe.
Oct 25 17:43:28 <alterego> Like, you don't register a method. You just register an interface/object
Oct 25 17:43:29 <czr> it comes automatically if you use glib/d-bus bindings (more or less)
Oct 25 17:43:46 <alterego> Yes, the glib-dbus bindings are quite nice.
Oct 25 17:43:54 <czr> ergh. no they're not :-)
Oct 25 17:44:04 <alterego> I have no dbus bindings for ruby :/
Oct 25 17:44:13 <czr> doesn't ruby have any?
Oct 25 17:47:53 <alterego> Erm, no. Ruby doesn't have any decent DBus extension.
Oct 25 17:47:58 <alterego> It has one that just uses dbus-send :/
Oct 25 17:48:02 <czr> urgh
Oct 25 17:48:07 <czr> how come?
Oct 25 17:48:11 <alterego> I was thinking of doing it.
Oct 25 17:48:18 <alterego> But it's a _huge_ task :S
Oct 25 17:48:35 <alterego> Making a proper OO DBus API for Ruby would be very nice though.
Oct 25 17:48:45 <alterego> With automatic introspection too of course ;)
Oct 25 17:48:48 <czr> I'd think someone had thought about doing it already, not?
Oct 25 17:48:58 <czr> automatic instrospection is kind of useless at least in maemo
Oct 25 17:49:03 <alterego> It doesn't appear so. I spend quite a while looking.
Oct 25 17:49:07 <czr> as per above whining.
Oct 25 17:49:11 <czr> interesting.
Oct 25 17:49:13 <alterego> Yeah
Oct 25 17:49:20 <czr> I've yet to play with the python bindings properly.
Oct 25 17:49:43 <czr> not that I ever got python to play nice in bora to start with
Oct 25 17:50:29 <alterego> What problems did you have?
Oct 25 17:51:08 <czr> using extras messed up some stuff I was working on. and the libdbus bindings in extras for python are for a newer version than is available on bora
Oct 25 17:51:19 <czr> so it kind of was funky.
Oct 25 17:51:37 <czr> didn't spent too much time playing with it, decided to make a proper vmware image of bora sdk instead
Oct 25 17:51:51 <alterego> Kewl
Oct 25 17:56:27 <czr> the image came out quite nicely
Oct 25 17:57:00 <czr> everything just works, boots very fast, is very light and small too, both sides of sdk are preconfigured, networking works even when you're using dhcp on the host, and so on
Oct 25 17:57:24 <Tak> both sides?
Oct 25 17:57:29 <czr> x86 and arm
Oct 25 17:57:33 <Tak> ah
Oct 25 17:57:43 <Tak> I always forget, because I never use the x86 target
Oct 25 17:57:53 <czr> ah yes. it also contains magical glue to support running xephyr outside the vm (over ssh)
Oct 25 17:58:36 <czr> so that one can leave the vm running on vmware server on another host and just forget about the vmware frontend to the vm.
Oct 25 17:59:26 <alterego> Cool.
Oct 25 17:59:35 <alterego> I might be able to use that ..
Oct 25 17:59:39 <czr> the whole thing ended up being ~550 MiB compressed
Oct 25 18:00:16 <alterego> Running scratchbox in a VM on one of my servers would be super handy. I could just ssh in and out. Use screen.
Oct 25 18:00:23 <czr> sure
Oct 25 18:00:34 <czr> that's how I run scratchbox ever since
Oct 25 18:00:39 <alterego> Even develop _on_ a tablet ;)
Oct 25 18:00:40 <lopz> hola
Oct 25 18:00:47 <czr> don't want to pollute my main desktop with sbox cruftyness
Oct 25 18:00:52 <alterego> How does VMWare server work?
Oct 25 18:01:03 <Jaffa> czr: going to do a chinook version?
Oct 25 18:01:12 <czr> alterego, it's a client server arch. the server executes the vms. then you use the client to connect to it.
Oct 25 18:01:17 <czr> Jaffa, yes.
Oct 25 18:01:23 <alterego> That sounds really awesome.
Oct 25 18:01:28 <alterego> Is it free like player?
Oct 25 18:01:32 <czr> alterego, it's free (as in beer) too
Oct 25 18:01:38 <alterego> Fantastic.
Oct 25 18:01:47 * alterego downloads immediately.
Oct 25 18:01:47 <Jaffa> Better than player cos it can use multi-CPUs and expose them through to the VM
Oct 25 18:01:53 <czr> yup. the client/server isn't all that good when doing graphical stuff. but that's why I did the xephyr/ssh thingy
Oct 25 18:02:05 <czr> oh, it's many ways better than player
Oct 25 18:02:22 <czr> creating a new vm couldn't be much easier
Oct 25 18:02:40 <alterego> I imagine it's always running. So if your client drops the connection you can reconnect later without losing anything?
Oct 25 18:02:46 <czr> sure
Oct 25 18:02:54 <czr> as I said, I'm not running the client anymore
Oct 25 18:02:55 <alterego> Awesome.
Oct 25 18:03:11 <czr> just use ssh to connect to the vm, /scratchbox/login (and -X to handle xephyr forwarding)
Oct 25 18:03:24 <alterego> Neat.
Oct 25 18:04:46 <czr> the only thing I didn't get working in the vm-images was zerotools integrations inside scratchbox
Oct 25 18:05:00 <czr> but I think I could get that fixed if I could be bothered at some point.
Oct 25 18:09:17 <keesj> Tak does the packaged deb require rake or similar or install?
Oct 25 18:09:47 <keesj> or worse gems?
Oct 25 18:10:39 * keesj rembers vaguely that that was the point where he stopped trying 
Oct 25 18:10:50 <Tak> keesj: no
Oct 25 18:11:30 <keesj> great!
Oct 25 18:12:14 <keesj> how does it work? do you just copy the files to the right place?
Oct 25 18:13:14 * Jaffa logs off as this box is moving shortly.
Oct 25 18:13:57 <Tak> basically
Oct 25 18:15:11 <alterego> Right, that's the libosso documentation done ... For now ... :)
Oct 25 18:15:19 <Tak> it's pretty much already doing that
Oct 25 18:18:10 <thiagoss> I'd like to deactivate the headphones from my n800 from my app, can anyone help me? I suppose I'll have to use dbus
Oct 25 18:19:25 <Tak> http://rafb.net/p/Sel4bl66.html
Oct 25 18:23:30 <keesj> Thanks for the info, are the libs stripped?
Oct 25 18:23:43 <sciboy> What's the name of that music video people keep on using to demonstrate youtube video on Maemo devices?
Oct 25 18:24:26 <czr> mc hammer's can't touch this?
Oct 25 18:26:42 <sciboy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHnu94Cw59A
Oct 25 18:27:54 <sciboy> Found it!
Oct 25 18:28:15 <sciboy> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMOkfI7wCrI
Oct 25 18:28:28 <sciboy> The Postal Service - Such Great Heights
Oct 25 18:28:44 <GeneralAntilles> Ha . . . mediaserv is working now, but the audio comes through as static.
Oct 25 18:30:09 <GeneralAntilles> Still, the video looks fantastic.
Oct 25 18:30:13 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 18:30:27 <alterego> If you turn the video off can we get good audio? ^_^
Oct 25 18:33:00 <alterego> Nice, my RPC mechanism segfaults.
Oct 25 18:33:50 <czr> Reboot Procedure Call?
Oct 25 18:33:57 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 18:34:03 <czr> Really Panicky Call?
Oct 25 18:34:04 <alterego> Only on the server side.
Oct 25 18:34:12 <alterego> ~service side I guess ..
Oct 25 18:34:24 <alterego> I wonder if it has something to do with not having a .service file.
Oct 25 18:34:26 <czr> server is ok in my books though.
Oct 25 18:34:33 <alterego> Though I doubt that would cause a segfault.
Oct 25 18:34:36 <czr> alterego, you don't need a service file
Oct 25 18:34:44 <alterego> Yeah, I've noticed.
Oct 25 18:34:49 <czr> you using dbus-send to test?
Oct 25 18:34:52 <suihkulokki> for more cheasy youtube demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nONzp3h2wI4
Oct 25 18:34:56 <alterego> czr, yeah.
Oct 25 18:35:00 * czr nods
Oct 25 18:35:09 <alterego> I meant service file for the actual service ;)
Oct 25 18:35:24 <alterego> It's obviously doing something though because the send crashes the program ^_^
Oct 25 18:36:13 <czr> if the server is already running and has registered the well-known name, it doesn't need a service file
Oct 25 18:36:23 <alterego> Cool.
Oct 25 18:36:31 <czr> the service file is only necessary if you want d-bus daemon to start your server when someone tries to use it's well-known name
Oct 25 18:36:36 * alterego starts debugging ;)
Oct 25 18:36:50 <czr> alterego, the benefits of having to wade through a lot of docs and code while writing the material stuff :-)
Oct 25 18:37:13 <alterego> Well, I kind of realized that whilst testing my API.
Oct 25 18:37:32 <alterego> Noticing that I could do OSSO.initialize without having a .desktop or .service file.
Oct 25 18:37:35 <czr> make the server generate core and load it into gdb?
Oct 25 18:37:38 <czr> sure
Oct 25 18:41:44 <alterego> Interesting, my callback isn't even being called back.
Oct 25 18:42:06 <alterego> Oh, wrong code.
Oct 25 18:44:21 * czr rights the wrongs out of alteregos code
Oct 25 18:44:21 <alterego> Found the offending code ..
Oct 25 18:44:26 <czr> jail it!
Oct 25 18:44:38 <czr> (or you could always throw it out of the window?)
Oct 25 18:44:51 * sciboy yawns.
Oct 25 18:44:51 <alterego> This bit of code is pretty important.
Oct 25 18:45:08 <alterego> It converts a GArray into a C array to pass as arguments to the callback.
Oct 25 18:45:20 <czr> heh
Oct 25 18:46:57 <alterego> Well .. That sort of worked.
Oct 25 18:48:24 <alterego> Woo :)
Oct 25 18:48:42 <czr> john?
Oct 25 18:48:52 <alterego> I've successfully wrote a D-BUS LibOSSO service in Ruby :)
Oct 25 18:49:41 <alterego> Oh, my parents would be so pround
Oct 25 18:49:44 <alterego> ~proud
Oct 25 18:49:47 <sciboy> I can't believe they went for Mini-SD in the N810
Oct 25 18:50:15 <alterego> sciboy, appearanly there wasn't enough room for normal SD.
Oct 25 18:50:32 <alterego> Which is believable.
Oct 25 18:50:43 <sciboy> I'd let it slide in that case, but in general it really cripples the storage options.
Oct 25 18:50:56 <czr> alterego, libosso service?
Oct 25 18:51:06 <czr> alterego, you provide d-bus service using just libosso?
Oct 25 18:51:11 <alterego> Yup :)
Oct 25 18:51:27 <alterego> That's what I was just testing.
Oct 25 18:51:38 <czr> which libosso functions do you use for that?
Oct 25 18:51:45 <alterego> rpc_cb_f
Oct 25 18:51:49 <alterego> set/unset
Oct 25 18:51:56 <czr> ah
Oct 25 18:52:34 <czr> err. how do you handle demarshalling of the data inside the cb?
Oct 25 18:53:18 <alterego> I have RPC_TYPE to Ruby Object conversions.
Oct 25 18:53:35 <alterego> It's not perfect and probably possibly buggy but it seems to work.
Oct 25 18:53:37 <czr> but you do that manually, right?
Oct 25 18:53:42 <alterego> No,
Oct 25 18:54:03 <alterego> Automagickally done by ruby-libosso
Oct 25 18:54:40 <czr> hmm
Oct 25 18:54:55 <czr> suppose a rpc method call comes along which has three arguments, an integer, a double and a string array.
Oct 25 18:55:35 <czr> how do you attach a cb in this case? do you specify the types when attaching the cb, or decode the types in the wrapper and then just return an array of ruby objects instead? (one for each of the args)
Oct 25 18:55:44 <czr> (just curious)
Oct 25 18:55:45 <alterego> Well, the integer and double would be fine. But array's aren't used by OSSO and are therefore not recognised my ruby-libosso
Oct 25 18:56:08 <czr> right. so libosso does some of the demarshalling (into osso-types)
Oct 25 18:56:18 <alterego> Hopefully.
Oct 25 18:56:21 <czr> heh
Oct 25 18:56:36 <alterego> libosso passes the callback a GArray of the arguments.
Oct 25 18:56:37 <czr> damn. only now I realized that I should've written something about this too
Oct 25 18:56:49 <alterego> I iterate through that GArray converting the libosso types into Ruby types.
Oct 25 18:56:49 <czr> so far I thought that libosso was only useful on the client side.
Oct 25 18:56:56 <alterego> Then pass that to the real Ruby callback.
Oct 25 18:57:01 * czr nods
Oct 25 18:57:33 <alterego> It's neat how it works, because it handles multiple callbacks out-of-the-box
Oct 25 18:57:49 <czr> it's not neat that I've overlooked this.. damn.
Oct 25 18:57:58 * czr practices head/wall interaction thingies.
Oct 25 18:58:28 <alterego> Also, when you call the 'context.rpc.add_callback' method it returns an #<OSSO::Callback> which you can play with. For instance, change the 'data' paramter to be passed to the callback. You can even change the actual callback to be executed through the 'proc' attribute :)
Oct 25 18:58:49 <czr> I've never used ruby btw :-)
Oct 25 18:58:51 <alterego> But that's just my Ruby foo.
Oct 25 18:58:58 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 18:59:20 <alterego> Yeah, I don't mind not having D-BUS when LibOSSO gives about as much functionality as I can see a use for in Ruby.
Oct 25 18:59:43 <alterego> Adding a full D-BUS ruby extension now would make things a lot more complicated for programmers.
Oct 25 19:00:15 <alterego> I guess that's what libosso is about to begin with ;)
Oct 25 19:00:28 * czr nods
Oct 25 19:02:30 <czr> hmph. the code examples went through couple of review rounds, without almost any comments, so I guess that if someone really wanted me to cover libosso rpc_cb, then they'd tell me so. /me shrugs
Oct 25 19:02:49 <alterego> Right
Oct 25 19:02:55 * czr pretends that its not his problem
Oct 25 19:03:07 <alterego> Or, maybe your reviewers are a bit lazy ;)
Oct 25 19:03:13 <czr> you don't say :-)
Oct 25 19:03:37 <czr> I think they have better things to do.
Oct 25 19:03:40 <czr> can't really blame them.
Oct 25 19:03:49 <alterego> Heh
Oct 25 19:13:12 <czr> hmm. I just realized that libosso can't be used to do rpc method calls with multiple out-parameters
Oct 25 19:14:18 <czr> I wonder what will happen in that case
Oct 25 19:28:25 <inz> czr, surprisingly it will return the first and ignore the rest
Oct 25 19:28:50 <czr> inz, it doesn't crash? :-)
Oct 25 19:28:53 <czr> no errors either?
Oct 25 19:29:05 <czr> indeed. it is surprising :-)
Oct 25 19:30:06 <czr> I should really read through the code at some point
Oct 25 19:30:22 <timely_changelog> inz: fwiw, sardine should be inddx'd
Oct 25 19:30:28 <czr> otoh, I do have interesting stuff to work on as well. hmm. difficult decision. reading libosso source code or doing something else.. :-)
Oct 25 19:30:37 <inz> timely, doesn't help when I'm at home ;)
Oct 25 19:30:57 <timely_changelog> yomorrow
Oct 25 19:31:06 <inz> czr, if you want to keep the last drops of your sanity, don't read libosso code
Oct 25 19:31:10 <disq> how's the latest non-public sardine? has the statusbar plugins?
Oct 25 19:31:21 <czr> inz, I lost my sanity already two weeks back :-)
Oct 25 19:31:30 <disq> i upgraded a few minutes ago all it did was install the new udev
Oct 25 19:31:30 <inz> timely, I'll be working from home tomorrow ;)
Oct 25 19:31:43 <inz> disq, what is non-public sardine?
Oct 25 19:31:44 <timely_changelog> :(
Oct 25 19:32:10 <disq> dunno. i'm assuming there's a private version with chinook goodness in it which will be public when chinook hits the fan
Oct 25 19:32:27 <inz> disq, well that's called chinook, not sardine
Oct 25 19:33:00 <timely_changelog> sardine is actually held back in some cases because things can't enter sardine w/o building against sardine
Oct 25 19:34:35 <timely_changelog> so even though it's supposed to be bleeding edge
Oct 25 19:34:40 <timely_changelog> it's no quite
Oct 25 19:36:25 <disq> where's pymaemo-chinook? it's supposed to be released today
Oct 25 19:36:29 <disq> let me check the site
Oct 25 19:36:44 <lmoura> disq, we're working on it
Oct 25 19:37:02 <disq> brazil time. i forgot about that. sorry :)
Oct 25 19:37:19 <lmoura> no problem :)
Oct 25 19:38:57 <Bobbywaz> okay guys
Oct 25 19:39:08 <Bobbywaz> when I plug in my n800 to any computer
Oct 25 19:39:21 <Bobbywaz> I get the "usb device malfunction" err
Oct 25 19:39:23 <Bobbywaz> or
Oct 25 19:39:27 <Bobbywaz> what do I do about it
Oct 25 19:39:33 <Bobbywaz> ready? ANSWER
Oct 25 19:41:48 <deejoe> SUMMON: pizza
Oct 25 19:41:57 <deejoe> nope, doesn't work for me, either.
Oct 25 19:46:16 <Drel> Hello -- I'm interested in examining the Maemo 4.0 beta SDK, but already have Maemo 3.2 installed under Scratchbox Apophis r4.  Can both versions co-exist under the same scratchbox installation, or would you recommend creating a /scratchbox-maemo4 path, for example, assuming Maemo 3.2 is configured in /scratchbox?
Oct 25 19:47:09 <Bobbywaz> still no pizza?
Oct 25 19:47:51 <Andy80> Drel: I suggest you to try in with the vmware image provided in the garage... if you have enough ram :)
Oct 25 19:48:23 <Drel> Andy80: I'll give that a shot, thanks.
Oct 25 19:48:36 <Andy80> you're wellcome
Oct 25 19:48:43 <Bobbywaz> man, if I only had a question that wasn't stupid, someone would help.
Oct 25 19:50:59 <czr> actually it's quite the reverse Bobbywaz
Oct 25 19:51:11 <Drel> Andy80: I went to garage.maemo.org, and located maemo-sd-vmware-0.2.  However, the torrent file appears to be invalid.
Oct 25 19:51:24 <Drel> Andy80: Is there an alternate download location?
Oct 25 19:52:02 <Bobbywaz> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=maemo-sdk-vmware-0.2&spell=1
Oct 25 19:53:23 <Andy80> really don't know :\ I heard about it from the mailing list
Oct 25 19:54:00 <Drel> Bobbywaz: No seeds for that torrent.
Oct 25 19:54:47 <Drel> hey hey, 1 seed.
Oct 25 20:05:33 <chelli> hi, i am programming a small python application and want to use gconf for preferences, i am importing the gconf module with "from gnome import gconf", which works fine in scatchbox, but on the tablet itself i only get "ImportError: No module named gnome" am i missing a certain package? (python2.5-gnome is installed)
Oct 25 20:11:46 <czr> hmm. is there an easy way to detect whether n800 is on ac or not?
Oct 25 20:12:21 <luck^> chelli, it's our fault.. a problem inside script to create the deb package.. we will fix it
Oct 25 20:12:39 <Tak> yeah, there's a dbus call
Oct 25 20:12:40 <luck^> it's missing a __init__.py inside /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gnome
Oct 25 20:12:47 <Tak> ( @ czr )
Oct 25 20:12:54 <czr> Tak, which one?
Oct 25 20:14:03 * Tak looks
Oct 25 20:14:36 <playya_> czr, start dbus-monitor an unplug the power
Oct 25 20:14:53 <Tak> it looks like kagu's querying com.nokia.bme.request for charger_charging_off (and _on)
Oct 25 20:14:54 <czr> that's a signal. I want a method.
Oct 25 20:15:57 <czr> hmm. but is the charging status same as being connected to the cord?
Oct 25 20:16:10 <czr> (if the battery is fully charged for example)
Oct 25 20:16:18 <chelli> luck^: thanks, i thought i was my missing python knowledge (i just started learing python yesterday) ;-)
Oct 25 20:16:40 <luck^> chelli :)  don't worry!
Oct 25 20:17:17 * Tak shrugs
Oct 25 20:18:16 <czr> Tak, ok, thanks anyway :-)
Oct 25 20:20:23 <playya_> czr, look at the hildon banner for this
Oct 25 20:20:38 <czr> playya_, could you be more specific?
Oct 25 20:21:10 <playya_> if the battery is charged/ power unpluged a banner is displayed
Oct 25 20:21:25 <czr> hmm. where should I look for the source code?
Oct 25 20:21:29 <playya_> look at the code which method is called there
Oct 25 20:21:32 <czr> also, I think it's still just signal based
Oct 25 20:21:48 <czr> but I'll take a peek if I'd just know where to look
Oct 25 20:21:53 <playya_> i dont have the tableteer repo in sources list
Oct 25 20:23:18 <czr> hmm. infoprint is called hildon banner nowadays?
Oct 25 20:23:29 <czr> the D-Bus method is infoprint though.
Oct 25 20:23:50 <playya_> is it started the other way?
Oct 25 20:23:57 <czr> I have no idea
Oct 25 20:24:05 <playya_> that the battery calls the banner?
Oct 25 20:24:14 <czr> something calls the banner methinks
Oct 25 20:24:40 <czr> could be bme
Oct 25 20:24:46 <playya_> i dont have a n800 atm
Oct 25 20:24:58 <czr> no prob. I might return to this later on
Oct 25 20:25:05 <playya_> ok
Oct 25 20:27:10 <unique311> anyone using xchat?
Oct 25 20:28:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, unique311. Specifically skyhusker's port.
Oct 25 20:29:13 <unique311> any script that logs when someone uses your nick in a message..
Oct 25 20:29:21 <unique311> besides log..
Oct 25 20:29:34 <unique311> besides the log feature of xchat..
Oct 25 20:29:42 <GeneralAntilles> Haven't bothered to look into it.
Oct 25 20:29:42 <unique311> that logs entire sessions..
Oct 25 20:29:45 <unique311> ok
Oct 25 20:30:53 <disq> unique311: seen my comment for the quicksynergy, any thoughts? :)
Oct 25 20:30:53 <_Monkey> I haven't seen 'my', disq
Oct 25 20:31:01 <disq> shut up _Monkey
Oct 25 20:31:36 <unique311> yeah...i check it out..
Oct 25 20:32:00 <unique311> will have to put it to use for the new OS
Oct 25 20:32:04 <disq> you could bundle the binaries with quicksynergy and launch synergy with the shellscript
Oct 25 20:32:46 <disq> i really felt sorry for the people who reboot their tablets to show/hide the cursor. had to do something.
Oct 25 20:33:37 <unique311> lol
Oct 25 20:35:03 <pupnik> ahhaha
Oct 25 20:35:09 <pupnik> 4992368 Oct 25 16:54 tofix.txt
Oct 25 20:35:36 <Bobbywaz> any news on that pizza?
Oct 25 20:36:28 <czr> pupnik, that's a todo? :-)
Oct 25 20:37:21 <pupnik> ty for that fix disq - sdl progs can hidecursor with a simple command
Oct 25 20:37:49 <disq> yeah but can't do it systemwide can they
Oct 25 20:42:13 <pupnik> task-switching while sdl game is running?  heresy!
Oct 25 20:42:19 <pupnik> :)
Oct 25 20:43:08 <disq> doesn't work like that in kagu. maybe because pygame handles it differently
Oct 25 20:43:59 <disq> anyway, if you have a better solution than xsetroot just make a set_cursor script and post it in quicksynergy garage. i don't really want to compile/package xsetroot for maemo anyways :P
Oct 25 20:44:19 <disq> i mean, i stole the binary from a sid-armel deb before
Oct 25 21:06:35 <disq> is chinook being shipped with python2.5?
Oct 25 21:40:32 <konttori> disq: Nopr
Oct 25 21:40:35 <konttori> nope
Oct 25 21:41:41 <disq> you said kagu won't install in chinook. was it because it lacked python2.5? or osso-mediaplayer-engine?
Oct 25 21:42:07 <konttori> I tested ukmp on the device and that worked
Oct 25 21:42:18 <konttori> It was maybe depending on something else
Oct 25 21:42:44 <konttori> and at the time that I tested, python didn't support gtk at all, so it was kind of not-yet-ready version
Oct 25 21:42:51 <disq> ah, ok
Oct 25 21:43:14 <konttori> But do you use gstreamer directly?
Oct 25 21:43:35 <konttori> demuxer is id3demuxer in chinook
Oct 25 21:43:46 <disq> so, why is ukmp shown as the top download in nokia.com/OS2008? :P
Oct 25 21:43:56 <konttori> ? where?
Oct 25 21:44:04 <disq> no we use osso-mediaserver/mediaplayer-engine or mplayer
Oct 25 21:44:20 <disq> www.nokia.com/OS2008 :)
Oct 25 21:44:25 <konttori> sweet!
Oct 25 21:44:31 <disq> yeah right :P
Oct 25 21:44:54 <konttori> ukmp works on the device perfectly
Oct 25 21:45:14 <konttori> it so happens that the python works perfectly for all ukmp uses
Oct 25 21:45:25 <konttori> anyway, I don't know about that chart. Might be a stub as well
Oct 25 21:45:36 <konttori> or, it might retrieve it from garage downloads
Oct 25 21:45:48 <disq> i think it's a stub
Oct 25 21:46:05 <konttori> Yeah. from garage, it would definitely be maemo mapper
Oct 25 21:46:09 <konttori> https://garage.maemo.org/
Oct 25 21:49:08 <tko> it's good to see community apps on the top downloads list
Oct 25 21:49:18 <tko> would be nice to see more, of course ;-)
Oct 25 21:49:29 <disq> :)
Oct 25 21:50:25 <tko> though it's probably rather difficult to compete with things like Skype, Rhapsody, Gizmo, Boingo, ...
Oct 25 21:51:13 <konttori> especially as they have direct install links in the menus
Oct 25 21:52:11 <tko> OTOH we have maemo blocks preinstalled
Oct 25 21:54:18 <disq> hopefully when we get repository install counts included in the app download counts more community apps will emerge in the list
Oct 25 21:54:46 <disq> of course it's impossible to compete with .install-bundled apps
Oct 25 21:55:22 <disq> do you have any info on sardine? current sardine is weird with no statusbar plugins etc.
Oct 25 21:55:35 <disq> never seen it this cutting edge before :P
Oct 25 21:55:49 <tko> sardine contains only open source stuff.. plugins aren't
Oct 25 21:57:31 <disq> ah. true, i had my old bora versions of them
Oct 25 21:57:37 <disq> thanks for the explanation :)
Oct 25 22:09:26 * luck^ informs: PyMaemo for Chinook released!
Oct 25 22:15:16 <alterego> I really need to get a new computer ..
Oct 25 22:16:04 <tko> alterego: I'd recommend a life instead of a computer :)
Oct 25 22:16:19 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 22:16:38 <alterego> Life is over rated :P
Oct 25 22:17:32 <alterego> Ignore me, I'm grouchy. Got a little cold.
Oct 25 22:18:33 <tko> oh, I didn't even notice. you need to do a lot better than that :)
Oct 25 22:18:41 <alterego> Something is stopping me from figuring out what's wrong with my RPC argument processing problem in libosso too.
Oct 25 22:20:25 <tko> I've never managed to take a really good look at libosso, but from the description of the RPC I got the impression it's an abstraction gone horribly wrong
Oct 25 22:20:38 <alterego> Well, yes and no.
Oct 25 22:20:48 <tko> but as said, I never to take a good look at it
Oct 25 22:21:31 <alterego> libosso just kind of seems like a random group of facilities.
Oct 25 22:21:46 <tko> yes, it does that too
Oct 25 22:21:51 <alterego> If it was structured in a more coherent manner, maybe with multiple layers of complexity it would be nicer.
Oct 25 22:22:33 <alterego> The RPC stuff isn't _too_ bad though.
Oct 25 22:22:54 <alterego> Even though I'm only actually dealing with 6 libosso RPC functions.
Oct 25 22:23:20 <alterego> The other 5 can be implemented with the ones I'm already using.
Oct 25 22:26:12 <alterego> Ah, think I've figured it out.
Oct 25 22:26:57 <tko> yes, I vaguely recall most of libosso RPC stuff being just a very thing wrapper on top of dbus, making it almost pointless, and the abstraction part leaking all dbus details anyways making it impractical. but I won't form any definitive opinion before studying it in detail (maybe around 2010 or so..)
Oct 25 22:28:08 <alterego> If it's still around in 2010 ;)
Oct 25 22:28:31 <alterego> I had a feeling it was being replaced for some reason.
Oct 25 22:32:17 <tko> kimmo is reimplementing it slowly, see the muali stuff
Oct 25 22:33:11 <alterego> Yeah.
Oct 25 22:33:21 <alterego> I'd noticed that.
Oct 25 22:35:29 <tko> to some extent there's a generic problem of "if it works, why would you want to change it?" thinking, which does have a point
Oct 25 22:35:30 <disq> ooh first release of pymaemo2.5 for chinook is out
Oct 25 22:35:48 <tko> so ukmp should be installable?
Oct 25 22:35:52 <tko> in extras? :)
Oct 25 22:36:38 <disq> kagu should be installab.e
Oct 25 22:36:39 <tko> last time I tried installing ukmp it was quite painful
Oct 25 22:36:41 <disq> :P
Oct 25 22:37:22 <alterego> Well, sure it does what it does.
Oct 25 22:37:30 <tko> kagu wasn't in the top downloads list :-P
Oct 25 22:37:46 <alterego> I think somethings in it are badly done. Personally the RPC stuff isn't _too_ bad ..
Oct 25 22:38:29 <alterego> I think certain things should be grouped together that aren't. Things like the new locale stuff in chinook. I think that should be ground with the time part aswell.
Oct 25 22:39:13 <tko> ah, documentation issues.. todo item #235234
Oct 25 22:39:25 <alterego> ?
Oct 25 22:39:35 <tko> grouping
Oct 25 22:39:50 <alterego> Heh
Oct 25 22:40:12 <alterego> I might actually abstract libosso a bit more for ruby-libosso
Oct 25 22:41:04 <alterego> Though that'll be a side project. The ruby-libosso bindings are going to be released as is once I've finished bug squashing.
Oct 25 22:41:11 <tko> suggestions for improvement would be nice
Oct 25 22:42:04 <tko> ah, yes, the constant battle between releasing early and doing things "right"
Oct 25 22:42:18 <alterego> Well, they're nice as they are.
Oct 25 22:42:22 <tko> everyone just needs to deal with it
Oct 25 22:43:08 <alterego> I was thinking more implementing something that would unify a few of the system libraries together.
Oct 25 22:46:23 <alterego> Jeez, my nose is running torrents.
Oct 25 22:46:27 <tko> not surprising really. would be nice if you could propose such thing to be provided officially
Oct 25 22:46:48 <celesteh> i prefer the official bittorent client for that, rather than my nose
Oct 25 22:46:53 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 22:47:13 <alterego> I think I might be over dosing on vitamin C.
Oct 25 22:47:20 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Oct 25 22:47:24 <GeneralAntilles> You can't do that
Oct 25 22:47:28 <GeneralAntilles> It's water-soluble.
Oct 25 22:47:48 <alterego> Good job it's not vitamin C++ then.
Oct 25 22:48:03 <tko> don't drink water then. drink alcohol :)
Oct 25 22:48:49 <GeneralAntilles> Yarr! Rum 'n' torrents sounds like a winning combination to me. Yarrharr!
Oct 25 22:48:59 <alterego> http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/sandbox/libosso-draft.txt
Oct 25 22:49:04 <alterego> That's the draft API documentation.
Oct 25 22:49:53 <GeneralAntilles> Looks documentary.
Oct 25 22:50:19 <alterego> :)
Oct 25 22:51:01 <ds3> is there a common (cheap) car charager that will work with the N800/N770? stock nokia phone ones are too fat
Oct 25 22:51:23 <alterego> Maybe there are more slim line 3rd party ones?
Oct 25 22:51:29 <GeneralAntilles> Could pick up a barrel adaptor
Oct 25 22:51:33 <GeneralAntilles> or get yourself an iGo
Oct 25 22:51:47 <ds3> is the charger plug a standard one used by a phone?
Oct 25 22:51:52 <alterego> Nice, I was accessing random areas of memory.
Oct 25 22:52:01 <GeneralAntilles> Think most of the N-series use it.
Oct 25 22:52:15 <ds3> 'k
Oct 25 22:52:42 <ds3> is the specs for plug available somewhere if I have to rig one up?
Oct 25 22:52:59 <GeneralAntilles> That small-barrel Nokia adaptor is available everywhere
Oct 25 22:53:03 <GeneralAntilles> Just pick a place and order. :\
Oct 25 22:53:11 <ds3> okay
Oct 25 22:53:26 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.mobileplanet.com/p.aspx?i=125505
Oct 25 22:53:35 <GeneralAntilles> One of those will work for adapting the old plugs.
Oct 25 22:53:49 <alterego> Nice, argument passing is working now :)
Oct 25 22:53:55 <GeneralAntilles> Woo!
Oct 25 22:53:57 <ds3> that is the right one? looks a lot like the regular nokia ones
Oct 25 22:54:12 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, it's the right one. :\
Oct 25 22:54:22 <ds3> guess the picture doesn't match :(
Oct 25 22:54:44 * alterego wonders what kind of services to write.
Oct 25 22:54:45 <GeneralAntilles> Find a better place to order it from, though.
Oct 25 22:54:52 <GeneralAntilles> I think Nokia sells it for $15
Oct 25 22:54:56 <ds3> *nod* that's why I wanted the specs
Oct 25 22:55:04 <ds3> a USB charger cable is probally best
Oct 25 22:55:04 <alterego> Nokia chargers are awesome.
Oct 25 22:59:02 * alterego goes to bed now.
Oct 25 22:59:04 <alterego> Good night folks.
Oct 25 23:06:12 <lopz> re
Oct 25 23:24:17 <|R> anyone tried the ssh -w any:any tunnel with rtcomm? (OS2007/n800)
Oct 25 23:24:53 <|R> (or does anyone knows maximCT's email?)
Oct 25 23:26:01 <|R> ah, i think i traced it back with google ;)
Oct 26 00:18:43 <Lateralus> Why would linking against libxml2 link against /scratchbox/devkits/doctools/lib/libxml2.so instead of /scratchbox/users/maemo/targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/usr/lib/libxml2.so? There is a libxml-2.0.pc file in place that looks good.
Oct 26 00:32:10 <Lateralus> When I try to build I receive "/scratchbox/devkits/doctools/lib/libxml2.so: could not read symbols: File in wrong format"
Oct 26 01:50:18 <zerojay> You know, a lot of people say that the camera on the N800 is shit and therefore is useless.
Oct 26 01:50:31 <zerojay> http://www.flickr.com/photos/15969266%40N04/1752044713/in/datetaken/ - I disagree.
Oct 26 01:51:15 <disq> that could be a nokia trick :P
Oct 26 01:52:55 <zerojay> lol.
Oct 26 01:53:11 <disq> to get us all buy the inferior n800 or the worse n810
Oct 26 01:54:15 <GeneralAntilles> COME OUT FROM UNDER THE COVERS!
Oct 26 01:54:20 <zerojay> lol
Oct 26 01:54:30 <zerojay> What's so bad about the N810?
Oct 26 01:54:33 <disq> rofl
Oct 26 01:55:08 <zerojay> The only thing that really annoys me is having just one slot, but I only have two 2GB cards in my N800 anyways.
Oct 26 01:55:45 <zerojay> I'll probably erase the maps from the internal.. if possible.
Oct 26 01:55:59 <disq> seriously? well. cam quality could be better (think iSight) and we could have a jogdial at one side
Oct 26 01:56:21 <zerojay> I think the cam on the N810 is better than the one on the N800.
Oct 26 01:56:25 <disq> i got one 1gig rsmmc and one 4gig sdhc. will have to buy a new 4gig minisd
Oct 26 01:56:29 <zerojay> Just wish I could spin it to the back side.
Oct 26 01:56:40 <disq> spinning is bad, i'd prefer a second hires cam
Oct 26 01:56:47 <zerojay> That would be nice too.
Oct 26 01:57:14 <zerojay> If I get the discount, I'm going to be giving my N800 to a friend who will buy me the N810 at the discounted price.
Oct 26 01:57:18 <disq> though i don't think it would fit in its current form factor
Oct 26 01:57:33 <disq> i thought you worked for nokia
Oct 26 01:57:48 <zerojay> No sir.
Oct 26 01:57:51 <zerojay> I work for Ubisoft.
Oct 26 01:57:58 <disq> ah, we had this talk
Oct 26 01:58:12 <zerojay> Well... technically... not anymore, my company just split from them.
Oct 26 01:58:20 <zerojay> Probably.
Oct 26 01:58:28 <zerojay> I'm starting to wish I did work at Nokia though.
Oct 26 01:58:48 <zerojay> Even just being QA for them (which I've done professionally before) on the tablets would be awesome.
Oct 26 01:59:27 <pigeon> hmm, does anyone remember there was a webpage that tells people not to do irc nick changing for away messages?
Oct 26 01:59:33 <disq> i could give away my n800 to an OSS enthusiast (so that we get more software ported/developed) if i got the n810 code too.
Oct 26 02:00:17 <disq> pigeon: there was?
Oct 26 02:00:45 <disq> well. i'd like to be on the device design team but don't see it happening.
Oct 26 02:00:46 <pigeon> hmm, there was, but i couldn't find it, and google isn't helping.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Oct 26 02:59:56 2007