**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Oct 27 02:59:56 2007 Oct 27 03:02:32 for the OMAP geeks, i just saw that TI demonstrated OMAP 3430s running up to 1GHz Oct 27 03:03:31 But afaict production units will be much lower at first. Oct 27 03:07:07 Still, sweet. Oct 27 03:07:18 If only the N810 had been the N900. :D Oct 27 03:09:48 yeah by oct 2008 i expect we can have dosbox running at 386 speeds Oct 27 03:11:02 along with fullspeed 8/16 bit console emulation, fullspeed amiga, fullspeed playstation 1 Oct 27 03:11:43 quake 3 with opengl etc Oct 27 03:12:20 It'll be like carrying around a little magical rectangle. Oct 27 03:12:52 that's exactly how i feel about my 770 :) Oct 27 03:13:12 little magical rectangle is my phrase of the day :) thx Oct 27 03:13:31 Ha Oct 27 05:14:51 Internet Tablet Talk (itT) will be moving to a bigger, faster server this weekend. Thanks to everyone, the site has grown exponentially. The site will have limited access from 12:01 AM (EST) of 10/27/2007 and hopefully be back by 10/29/2008 or earlier. Oct 27 05:15:01 10/29/2008? An update that takes a year? ;) Oct 27 05:15:13 Haha Oct 27 05:15:22 They're approaching a black hole Oct 27 05:15:26 So time's slowing down for them. Oct 27 05:34:07 good one :) Oct 27 05:34:18 That's my kinda deadline. Oct 27 06:45:08 mornink Oct 27 06:46:34 maybe they're just being extra careful while copy-pasting each article content with notepad to the new server Oct 27 06:46:50 or, even better, they print out everything on paper and rewrite it to the new system Oct 27 06:48:37 OCR FTW Oct 27 06:49:56 the C in OCR reminds me that I need to put the coffee on Oct 27 06:50:15 in order not to be caught by the black hole Oct 27 08:40:12 Morning, all Oct 27 09:25:11 hi all Oct 27 10:09:30 Anyone planning to fly within the US? http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2007/10/22/prior-permission-from-government-to-be-required-for-each-flight/ Oct 27 10:10:08 morning Oct 27 10:10:09 <_Monkey> aloha Oct 27 10:10:40 monkey es un roboto. Oct 27 10:10:41 The Transportation Security Administration and the Department of Homeland Security are quietly pushing for a set of crazy new rules. All travellers in the U.S. will be required to get government-issued credentials and official clearance before every flight, both within the United States as well as internationally. Oct 27 10:11:12 lol Oct 27 10:11:21 thank god i don't travel. Oct 27 10:11:28 international that is.. Oct 27 10:11:45 NWO bring it on. Oct 27 10:12:18 why would this be needed for national flights.. Oct 27 10:12:35 Oct 27 10:13:29 Just you know - some people here might want to make business trips Oct 27 10:13:44 and then consider buying a n810 instead and just doing the meeting over video chat Oct 27 10:14:18 pretty sure thats not going to happen. Oct 27 10:14:31 videoconferencing Oct 27 10:14:40 the new rules Oct 27 10:15:08 It's bin finalized. They go into effect Feb 19, 2008 Oct 27 10:15:52 Ron Paul just introduced a bill to the congress to restore the Bill of Rights and the Constitution Oct 27 10:16:28 good news...i'm over playing videos on my n800....yesterday a friend gave me a brand new ipod video...30GB Oct 27 10:16:32 so happy.. Oct 27 10:17:04 that's pretty expensive Oct 27 10:17:36 not that expensive i don't think.. Oct 27 10:17:59 i'll give it up in a heartbeat...for a touch.. Oct 27 10:18:01 8GB Oct 27 10:18:10 display is small on video ipod Oct 27 10:18:28 No kidding Oct 27 10:19:20 yeah..but it plays video so well..i don't mind it being. Oct 27 10:19:38 N800 plays video well, too. Oct 27 10:19:42 and it has a bigger screen. ;) Oct 27 10:19:52 lots of already converted video if you know where to look. Oct 27 10:20:12 GeneralAntilles, you have a comeback for that one? ;) Oct 27 10:20:23 Yes, Jaffa's mediaserv. Oct 27 10:20:29 danm... Oct 27 10:20:37 damn Oct 27 10:20:41 the bonus on video ipod is of course that you have storage... Oct 27 10:21:17 hey it was free....i am happy very much. still love my n800... Oct 27 10:21:32 re-encoder for the N800 is faster than bittorrenting for iPod movies, anyway. ;) Oct 27 10:21:47 no.. Oct 27 10:22:05 google torrentflux my friend.. Oct 27 10:22:54 i would go into details...but im not sure if these type of talks are allowed. Oct 27 10:25:46 Wish I still had my connection at home so I could send the transcoded video over the internet. Oct 27 10:28:29 hmm the 27... Oct 27 10:29:00 so one thread in IT was wrong about the new OS making its debut on the 26. Oct 27 10:30:11 If only. Oct 27 11:44:19 <_|Nix|_> rxvt Oct 27 11:44:22 <_|Nix|_> Sorry :o) Oct 27 12:18:31 * alterego wonders if it's possible to run the SDK through a tablet. Oct 27 12:35:54 GeneralAntilles/pupnik: IT OS 2008 can also apparently play, for example, PSP-targetted videos from Google Video etc. Oct 27 12:36:12 oooOOOOoooo Oct 27 12:36:25 :) Oct 27 12:50:19 What is up with glibc in the maemo 4 SDK. Oct 27 12:50:37 qemu is throwing up unsupported syscalls all over the place. Oct 27 14:03:52 with the Nokia N810, does anyone know whether Google maps and GPS is connected? ie. does google maps know automatically where i am? Oct 27 14:04:39 NAFAIK. There's no Google Maps application, so nothing to look at the GPS. Oct 27 14:05:23 well, there is the Opera browser -- I thought maybe they did something... cool.... a change to the browser... a plugin... to make this psosible Oct 27 14:05:26 would be awesome Oct 27 14:05:33 chx: a seperate app like a Google Maps application or something like Maemo mapper can do that, but there's no way to read the GPS location from inside the browser Oct 27 14:05:44 the browser is Mozilla-based in the N810 Oct 27 14:05:55 so you could always submit a patch :) Oct 27 14:05:58 The N810 doesn't have Opera ;-). Exposing user's co-ordinates to every random website would be a massive breach of privacy, too. Oct 27 14:05:59 oh. Oct 27 14:06:08 without a doubt. Oct 27 14:06:10 but I think it's more likely that people will write standalone apps Oct 27 14:06:14 surely there needs to be control Oct 27 14:06:27 Could be whitelisted, though - I suppose. Could be cool; but there's no standard for it Oct 27 14:06:27 we've been playing with the idea of adding some support for location into Telepathy Oct 27 14:06:40 particularly on XMPP there's a standard for publishing geoloc stuff Oct 27 14:06:42 Telepathy? Oct 27 14:06:45 put your buddies on a map, that kind of thing :) Oct 27 14:06:58 the real-time communications framework that the N8x0 and 770 uses Oct 27 14:07:06 for XMPP and SIP as shipped Oct 27 14:07:06 Ah, OK Oct 27 14:07:13 http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ this? Oct 27 14:07:29 yeah Oct 27 14:08:19 I am not happy over the browser being Mozilla based :( Opera is far superior IMO but ah well. Oct 27 14:08:46 * Jaffa very strongly disagrees. Oct 27 14:09:01 there's an abstraction layer, you can probably copy opera off an N800 and onto the N810 image and convince it to use it still, with some hackery, but I think the Nokians were right to support free software Oct 27 14:09:12 mozilla's not gonna get better unless people use it Oct 27 14:09:35 I can understand people saying Opera is superior on the desktop (where it provides feature X, Y and Z that - say - Firefox doesn't), but I want a web browser that works with more websites on my tablet; and that's Mozilla, not Opera. Oct 27 14:11:32 Well, could be. I am an Opera user on my desktop and it indeed provides a much more integrated experience than firefox. It's like a quality furcoat compared to a patchwork coat Oct 27 14:12:40 you could always change the way you see the things Oct 27 14:12:41 Firefox has come a long way. Oct 27 14:13:01 Microbe isn't firefox though :P Oct 27 14:13:20 Microbe is like firefox in that we can write extensions for it. That is sweet. Oct 27 14:13:32 and I am a FLOSS developer... which probably explains my disdain towards Mozilla -- severe bugs open for years makes me go :( Oct 27 14:13:36 hello, i cant delete or move files on my sd card. it allways says: write-protected. i dont think so.. :( mount says, its rw mounted Oct 27 14:13:46 Microb is like Firefox in that it has a shiny Gecko rendering engine. As a web developer, that's what I like most. Although, I've been bitten by long-standing bugs too. Oct 27 14:14:02 Yeah Oct 27 14:14:10 eichi, it says all Oct 27 14:14:27 eichi: perhaps the file is write-protected? Oct 27 14:14:38 anyways. I can't wait to put my hand on two new Nokia gadgets -- E51 being the other. Oct 27 14:14:44 eichi, maybe the switch on the card? Oct 27 14:15:09 playya: i do not think mount would mount rw a physically write protected card. Oct 27 14:15:36 maybe Oct 27 14:17:04 My favorite question: anyone tried to put the full LAMP stack on the N810 already? Oct 27 14:17:43 chx, there is a small number of people traveling into the future Oct 27 14:19:06 * Robot101 is looking forward to the 6500 phone, it should go nicely with his N810 :) Oct 27 14:19:16 what P stands for? php or perl? Oct 27 14:19:30 zoran: yeah, or python Oct 27 14:19:32 playya, nice idea with hardare switch. i tried, but doenst help Oct 27 14:19:43 so, everything is already here Oct 27 14:19:51 PHP Oct 27 14:20:11 there is smaller server instead of apache Oct 27 14:20:13 I so want mysql-server , webserver (apache preferred but i am not picky) and PHP on it. Oct 27 14:20:21 why?! Oct 27 14:20:33 hm, little one script db instead :( Oct 27 14:21:00 you want to serve websites from your n8x0? Oct 27 14:21:18 no. type /whois chx . Oct 27 14:21:31 chx, you could have small factor pc for not so big sum of money Oct 27 14:21:33 * chx wants to develop Drupal without a laptop. Oct 27 14:21:49 zoran: 4" 800x480 screen PC , where? Oct 27 14:21:52 ah, ok. reasonable Oct 27 14:21:56 yep Oct 27 14:22:07 esp with a *keyboard* Oct 27 14:22:07 ah, I see! Oct 27 14:22:19 but you need just server side Oct 27 14:22:25 yes, this is a PHP CMS Oct 27 14:22:36 use case: you are standing in some queue. Oct 27 14:22:55 it's a waste of time -- but it can be used for perfectly to quickly fix a bug or two Oct 27 14:23:04 to go somewhere and say: 'Take a look, folks, what this dude has!" Oct 27 14:23:18 ssh? :) Oct 27 14:23:27 that's not always available Oct 27 14:23:39 zoran: for that I have my laptop already, thanks. :) Oct 27 14:23:49 how E51 comes into the story? Oct 27 14:23:57 I need a phone to connect Oct 27 14:24:13 one that has decent connectivity options Oct 27 14:24:29 looks similar to 6120 Oct 27 14:24:31 out of the available HSDPA phones , E51 seems best. Oct 27 14:24:32 you might be able to cross compile ins cratchbox Oct 27 14:24:41 e51 out yet? Oct 27 14:24:58 no, but is N810 out yet :) ? Oct 27 14:25:00 I see it on the local phone site Oct 27 14:25:03 dunno, 6120classic looks nice. but doesn't have wireless like the e51 does Oct 27 14:25:19 * Robot101 would like an E65 with HSDPA :) Oct 27 14:25:21 and E51 --compared to knowledge-- is cheap. Oct 27 14:25:32 what sum of $? Oct 27 14:25:35 zoran: where do you see it...? Oct 27 14:25:52 www.mobilnisvet.com Oct 27 14:26:10 disq: for wireless you allways have your tablet ;) Oct 27 14:26:13 hm, not in the store yet Oct 27 14:26:14 I have seen E51 on ebay.de for 280EUR or so. Oct 27 14:26:43 little big to be sexy Oct 27 14:26:46 http://cgi.ebay.de/Handy-Nokia-E51-EMAIL-WLAN-MP3-PLAYER-UMTS_W0QQitemZ130166549903QQihZ003QQcategoryZ123141QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Oct 27 14:28:00 6233 could do the job with 3g Oct 27 14:28:12 similar outlook Oct 27 14:30:48 e51 is pretty small Oct 27 14:31:03 114 Oct 27 14:31:23 almost 1 cm more than 6233 Oct 27 14:31:24 thinner than 6233 Oct 27 14:31:39 108 x 46.5 x 18 mm Oct 27 14:31:44 mediaserv v0.04 out: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=87743&posted=1#post87743 - will do proper announcement on maemopeople when I've taken a video demonstrating it. Oct 27 14:31:53 thats 6233, e51 115 x 47 x 12 mm Oct 27 14:32:13 lemme c Oct 27 14:32:44 108x46x18 Oct 27 14:33:47 if i try "rm -rf" it says. cant remove, read-only filesystem Oct 27 14:33:50 :( Oct 27 14:34:14 suihkulokki: i'm not a fan of wifi capable phones, just saying Oct 27 14:34:25 eichi: what capacity...? Oct 27 14:34:34 most of the ime it's useless.. if you got 3g coverage and a good plan Oct 27 14:34:37 disq: it's nice to have at hand. just in case. Oct 27 14:34:41 +t Oct 27 14:35:00 Well, check Canada data plans and ... you need wifi there . Oct 27 14:35:01 eichi, did you "mount -r"? Oct 27 14:35:10 chx, 2gb Oct 27 14:35:39 zoran, ? Oct 27 14:35:48 did you mount it read only? Oct 27 14:35:58 and what fs? Oct 27 14:36:05 mount says (rw) Oct 27 14:36:07 vfat Oct 27 14:36:17 eichi: ah. i asked because ther are nonstandard 4GB SD cards (not SDHC) I own one and various devices go bonkers with various errors Oct 27 14:36:58 chx, maybe this one is too. but it worked many weeks now without problems Oct 27 14:37:14 but now it doesnt work at all Oct 27 14:37:58 eichi, could you make ext2 on it? Oct 27 14:39:00 nokia shows picture of e51 Oct 27 14:39:06 zoran, i dont know, wheater the n800 can use ext2/3 Oct 27 14:39:27 it can Oct 27 14:39:39 you just need extra libs Oct 27 14:39:57 and load the module Oct 27 14:40:24 * alterego would like the notes application to have multiple windows .. Oct 27 14:41:48 the ext lib are shipped with maemo dont they? Oct 27 14:41:53 what phone would be fine for 770/800/810 + 3g Oct 27 14:42:18 I think people like the N95 Oct 27 14:42:53 yes Oct 27 14:43:02 * Jiten personally uses 6120 classic right now Oct 27 14:43:02 the n95 8gb is great Oct 27 14:43:04 abput 450 euros Oct 27 14:43:12 or an openmoko Oct 27 14:43:13 <_Monkey> an openmoko is NeoStrider's phone of choice =-) Oct 27 14:43:33 could Jiten say his personal opinion about 6120? Oct 27 14:43:37 Are they even out yet? Oct 27 14:43:42 zoran, e2fslibs and e2fsprogs? Oct 27 14:43:46 yes Oct 27 14:43:56 to make fs Oct 27 14:44:11 ans sfdisk to make partitions Oct 27 14:44:28 I just used my laptop. Oct 27 14:44:35 opinion on which parts? I haven't really used it for much else than normal phonecalling and as an alarm clock (it's missing a timer, though that's probably easy to fix by downloading a timer program) Oct 27 14:44:43 other than that, it has hsdpa Oct 27 14:44:51 are you happy with that? Oct 27 14:45:15 Handy feature when it's plugged into USB .. Oct 27 14:45:25 battery and all people do to phone Oct 27 14:45:49 yes, very. especially now since I've just moved and ADSL is lagging a couple of days Oct 27 14:45:55 Nokia 6301 seems interesting, too Oct 27 14:46:07 Not 3G, though...? Oct 27 14:46:24 Jiten, is it a quality made phone? Oct 27 14:46:56 anyway, battery life. 3G mode if you just use it as a phone, you'll be recharging it once or twice a week. More if you talk a lot. Oct 27 14:47:13 not so much Oct 27 14:47:21 how about no 3g mode? Oct 27 14:47:35 2G mode the battery lasts at least a week in my use. Oct 27 14:47:42 cool Oct 27 14:47:56 1G mode? Oct 27 14:47:57 I don't call muich Oct 27 14:48:13 1g mode == talk in person Oct 27 14:48:34 anyway, the phone feels solid. Oct 27 14:48:34 Yeah, how does it fair in that regard? Oct 27 14:48:49 (physically) Oct 27 14:49:03 and the traffic is low that way Oct 27 14:49:07 much better built than my old el cheapo model :) Oct 27 14:49:18 in hungary Oct 27 14:49:36 After looking around for all , I still feel like buying an E51 :) Oct 27 14:49:38 reviewers say slipy back cover Oct 27 14:50:03 in 6120? slippy as in slips off accidentally and often? not possible. Oct 27 14:50:18 moves for 1 or mm Oct 27 14:50:20 my strength is barely enough to get it off. Oct 27 14:50:23 in revews Oct 27 14:50:45 I like it as you talk about it Oct 27 14:50:56 reviews say a lot of things Oct 27 14:51:09 totally opsite one to another Oct 27 14:51:22 it does move a bit, but less than a mm Oct 27 14:51:37 not enough to notice unless you try moving it Oct 27 14:52:18 the most concerning to me is: does it heat as reviews say? Oct 27 14:52:35 some people post they cannot hold it by ear Oct 27 14:52:38 I'm not so much a fan of the E series. Oct 27 14:52:45 Too blackberry like .. Oct 27 14:52:51 Which I don't like either. Oct 27 14:52:57 e51 looks like 6120 Oct 27 14:53:27 if look buys, I'd take 6233 Oct 27 14:53:27 alterego: what's the catch? Oct 27 14:53:44 chx, ? Oct 27 14:54:29 zoran: it does tend to heat sometimes ... though not always. I'm not completely sure what causes it. Oct 27 14:54:36 heat? wtf? atleast my 6120 doesn't. Oct 27 14:54:44 at the moment I suspect signal strength Oct 27 14:54:49 O_o Oct 27 14:54:57 Maybe your battery is frying. Oct 27 14:55:02 You should be careful Oct 27 14:55:19 people thing the speaker Oct 27 14:55:23 *think Oct 27 14:55:39 or strong cpu Oct 27 14:56:01 the cpu is the same speed as in n800 Oct 27 14:56:12 arm11 Oct 27 14:56:59 suihkulokki, could you find where your phone is made? Oct 27 14:57:27 hungary, methinks Oct 27 14:57:43 yes, reviews point that Oct 27 14:57:54 Yes. Komarom. Oct 27 14:58:24 In some distant past I was Hungarian Oct 27 14:59:04 lived there? Oct 27 14:59:10 born there Oct 27 14:59:10 mm.. at home and work (the places I most end up calling with it) the 3g coverage is full bars Oct 27 14:59:12 lived there Oct 27 14:59:20 got sick of Hungarian citizens Oct 27 14:59:20 left Oct 27 14:59:38 so it could theoretically heat up more when at the edge of 3g coverage Oct 27 14:59:40 central europe with all + and - Oct 27 14:59:41 Can anyone link be to that blog post about multiple maemo sdk targets that was posted last week? Oct 27 14:59:55 I missed the memo about the + Oct 27 14:59:59 suihkulokki: could be. your 6120 doesn't heat up Oct 27 15:00:01 hola Oct 27 15:00:02 ? Oct 27 15:00:18 suihkulokki, what is you chose just gsm? Oct 27 15:00:37 haven't tried it Oct 27 15:01:32 I'll have to test the heating up a bit more but I suspect it is the signal strength. Likely in 2G mode it happens less Oct 27 15:02:03 I would liek to know the result prior buy it Oct 27 15:02:34 at least right now it's not hot. Oct 27 15:04:51 Jiten, is it ok if I ask you about the subject this days, when you have more data? Oct 27 15:05:16 zoran: sure, ask away Oct 27 15:05:24 :) Oct 27 15:06:28 it could be that if you keep the phone in dual network mode (both gsm and umts), it won't heat up Oct 27 15:07:20 that way it'll use whichever network is better at any given location. Oct 27 15:07:41 my current location is rather peculiar. it's constantly switching between hsdpa and umts. sometimes even dropping to gprs Oct 27 15:08:27 I'd rather use only 2g, gsm Oct 27 15:08:37 turn it to gsm only mode then Oct 27 15:08:53 that likely works too. gsm can't use as much power Oct 27 15:08:55 yes, that way ot cold stay cold, probably Oct 27 15:09:43 I recall reports about 6233 losing connection if dual mode set Oct 27 15:09:50 gla55: no reason, really. it doesn't cause problems with my internet use. Oct 27 15:10:05 Jiten: was referring to zoran Oct 27 15:10:22 ah, ok Oct 27 15:10:30 k ,read Oct 27 15:22:06 Hmmmm, may need to do a gecko wrapper with pixel doubling after all. =/ Oct 27 15:27:50 Crap this would be so much easier with even basic video acceleration. =( Oct 27 15:35:39 there is no video acceleration at all o_O ? Oct 27 15:36:17 there is a yuv surface right? Oct 27 15:36:32 I mean, Xv support Oct 27 15:38:33 isn't there a library for really basic stuff that uses the dsp? Oct 27 15:39:24 scaling sounds like something that'd be very suitable for the dsp Oct 27 15:40:55 the problem is the the DSP can't interface with the LCD chip Oct 27 15:41:03 so that would mean a lot of data passing around Oct 27 15:46:03 GeneralAntilles: im replacing the 770 with a different device, no real reason to keep it around Oct 27 15:46:19 Jiten: Oct 27 15:46:20 17:41 the problem is the the DSP can't interface with the LCD chip Oct 27 15:46:20 17:41 so that would mean a lot of data passing around Oct 27 15:46:38 I wish it could access the screen directlly otherwise you could do some very interesting things Oct 27 15:46:55 I see, that makes for abit of a problem Oct 27 15:47:34 Heya, i'm using my Nokia 770 to connect to my desktop VIA vnc client, and I always use SCREEN when running SSH or VNC for obvious reasons. Now, I can send commands to a terminal that I opened up on my vnc client and press enter (return key) on the tablet, no problem. But within screen I can only type, I cannot press enter, I press it and nothing happens. Any ideas? Oct 27 15:47:45 or maybe it can but we just don't know it, it used to be the case on the n770 that the dsp could write to the framebuffer Oct 27 15:48:07 back the, the device dsp inluded some video stuff, now it's purely audio Oct 27 15:48:14 sixpence: off the top of my head, terminal emulation problem? Oct 27 15:48:27 sparr: It's urxvt, let me try it with xterm, hold on Oct 27 15:49:10 sparr: You were right. Thanks =D Oct 27 15:50:02 Damn, so that leaves me with either pygame or a gecko wrapper. Oct 27 15:50:41 to do what? Oct 27 15:50:51 Game development. Oct 27 15:50:53 sparr: now im talking to you from my tablet =) Oct 27 15:51:17 Just starting to grasp the limitations on the n800. Oct 27 15:52:23 I was hoping to do it through the browser and use gecko to take care of a lot for me, but it seems that it won't be able to handle any decent animation without pixel doubling. Oct 27 15:52:38 didn't n800 have a 3d acceleration chip that just can't be used? Oct 27 15:52:50 powervr or something Oct 27 15:52:50 sciboy: if you want games, the gp2x is a far better platform, imho. im switching back soon. Oct 27 15:52:57 sciboy: the new gp2x has a touch screen. Oct 27 15:52:59 You have to pay for the company to give you a kernel module to use the acceleration. Oct 27 15:53:08 The kernel module is only for Linux 2.4. Oct 27 15:53:10 sciboy: ill miss debian packages, thats by far the #1 feature of the nokia devices Oct 27 15:53:29 sparr: #1 pain, perhaps. Oct 27 15:53:43 zerojay: pain? relative to what? Oct 27 15:53:45 sparr, I already have one, the N800 has a better chance in my case. Oct 27 15:53:51 zerojay: imagine installing software WITHOUT them Oct 27 15:54:03 sparr: I'd be far happier. Oct 27 15:54:18 seriously? major wtf Oct 27 15:54:44 I have to agree, being able to track updates alone is worth it. Oct 27 15:55:00 updating stuff on non-package-manager handhelds is omg-annoying Oct 27 15:55:26 after using an Asus PDA and a GP2x as my handheld gaming systems for years, the package-ness of the 770 was a godsend Oct 27 15:55:41 packages and wifi, in that order, are the two things im going to miss, moving back to a gp2x Oct 27 15:55:55 Why is it that you're moving back to the GP2X? Oct 27 15:56:01 gaming Oct 27 15:56:01 <_Monkey> well, gaming is priority with gp2x Oct 27 15:56:17 my handheld use is 80% gaming, 10% media, 10% PIM Oct 27 15:56:31 Better off with a PSP then. Oct 27 15:56:45 homebrew on the PSP is a joke Oct 27 15:56:53 How's that? Oct 27 15:56:54 where can you buy a gp2x device? Oct 27 15:57:09 amr: theres only a few places in the USA that have them, mostly order them from the UK or asia Oct 27 15:57:21 wow, i'm in the uk Oct 27 15:57:35 I'm still interested in getting a GP2X.. but I'm not sure if it's worth getting if the controller was as bad as the original was (which my friend had). Oct 27 15:57:41 i'm shocked that we have something that isn't popular in the us Oct 27 15:57:42 amr: gp2x.co.uk Oct 27 15:57:43 gadget-wise Oct 27 15:57:44 I ordered mine inside australia. Oct 27 15:57:46 cool thanks Oct 27 15:58:20 zerojay: the mk2 has a better joystick than the mk1 and the gp32. the F200, which JUST started shipping, has a d-pad. waiting to hear reviews on it Oct 27 15:58:28 Personally I think the GP2X kicks ass but the Maemo platform has more of a future with Nokia's backing and distribution. Oct 27 15:58:39 sparr: Yeah, I saw that.. it looks interesting. Oct 27 15:58:51 The GP2X can handle SNES at full speed yet? Oct 27 15:58:56 ~100 gbp Oct 27 15:58:59 Yep. Oct 27 15:59:00 i'm quite impressed Oct 27 15:59:08 sciboy: i agree. if nokia built the ngage on maemo instead of on crap, it would succeed in the homebrew scene. Oct 27 15:59:14 Because last I saw, it couldn't. Oct 27 15:59:20 whats the screen like on them? Oct 27 15:59:27 sciboy: the 770/800/810 could be decent gaming devices, if the d-pad didnt suck and it had more game-friendly buttons Oct 27 15:59:39 screen on the gp2x? very nice. brighter than the 770, but less viewing angle Oct 27 15:59:43 sparr, The N800 would absolutely wipe out the competition if they'd just open up the PowerVR. Oct 27 15:59:46 what about resolution? Oct 27 15:59:51 sparr: And also if it was built from the start for gaming so that we'd have the video bandwidth, etc... Oct 27 15:59:53 only QVGA :( Oct 27 15:59:57 supertux is a paint to play on my 770, i keep hitting the centre button Oct 27 16:00:12 :O thats tiny Oct 27 16:00:21 sciboy: That's not really Nokia's decision though. Oct 27 16:00:33 zerojay: yes it is. they have to pay to unlock it, but they could. Oct 27 16:00:45 zerojay, I know, cause if it was it'd be silly to let it go to waste. Oct 27 16:00:50 sparr: If they paid, they'd get a kernel module for Linux 2.4. Oct 27 16:00:55 We're on 2.6. Oct 27 16:01:06 so, pay more :) Oct 27 16:01:12 heh Oct 27 16:01:13 Doesn't work that way. :) Oct 27 16:01:15 rumor has it that TI has a decent development team Oct 27 16:01:29 I thought the new 2.6 drivers had support for the OMAP 2420? Oct 27 16:01:39 or someone would have to reverse engineer the powervr driver that's out there Oct 27 16:01:40 the first person to make a basic racing game (like a basic supertuxkart) that i can play on my 770 Oct 27 16:01:43 i will give $100 Oct 27 16:02:20 supertuxkart? why not just tuxkart? Oct 27 16:02:26 I'd like to see Nokia pay to get it opened up, but honestly, it probably doesn't make much business sense for them to do so. Oct 27 16:02:29 well whichever Oct 27 16:02:40 does it count if i just get SNES emulation working and run mario kart? Oct 27 16:03:01 sparr: Sure, if you want to play at ~5fps. :) Oct 27 16:03:02 if i can play it on my 770, sure :P Oct 27 16:03:15 I'd also like nokia to get it opened up and make a driver for it, but I have no confidence in that at all Oct 27 16:03:21 gp2x runs mario kart at 20+ FPS... Oct 27 16:03:26 hence me switching back Oct 27 16:03:33 ER.. Oct 27 16:03:37 Only 20+? Oct 27 16:03:41 most of my gaming on the gp2x is emulation, thousands of great games Oct 27 16:03:45 or get me something that can play sonic the hedgehog :-) Oct 27 16:03:50 You'd be MUCH better off on the PSP. Oct 27 16:03:53 zerojay: i dont overclock my gp2x unless i have to, exponential increase in battery usage Oct 27 16:04:01 I couldn't care less about emulation, homebrew is where it's at. Oct 27 16:04:03 i regularly underclock Oct 27 16:04:13 indeed sciboy Oct 27 16:04:27 emulation doesn't use the full performance of the device anyway Oct 27 16:04:32 The GP2X has some nice contenders in that department. Oct 27 16:04:36 sciboy: i disagree. literally thousands of great games for NES/SNES/Genesis/etc, all working for the effort of getting ONE program working Oct 27 16:04:42 Emulation just has a large library of games going for it though. Oct 27 16:04:44 wumpus: Emulation pushes hardware much more than any simple homebrew game does. Oct 27 16:04:53 sciboy: do ports count as homebrew? Oct 27 16:05:05 sure, it pushes the hardware, but does not make effective use of it Oct 27 16:05:16 Robot101: fwiw, there is an implementation of GPS for MicroB (and MiniMo) Oct 27 16:05:21 Where do you get something like that? Oct 27 16:05:22 it runs much slower than a native game doing the same would Oct 27 16:05:37 That doesn't mean that it doesn't make effective use of it. Oct 27 16:05:44 Whatsoever. Oct 27 16:05:46 i ported enigma to the gp2x Oct 27 16:05:48 poorly Oct 27 16:05:49 Jaffa: fwiw, i've insisted that any real GPS browser impl include security Oct 27 16:05:55 it does, because it means you can do much more with the device if you made a native game Oct 27 16:05:55 and they're working on that now Oct 27 16:06:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UX_Fv_MzpKI :o Oct 27 16:06:08 os2006 running flash9 Oct 27 16:06:15 wumpus: Yes, but that has nothing to do with how hard the hardware is being pushed or how effective it is. Oct 27 16:06:16 chx: don't assume implementers think about control or privacy Oct 27 16:06:24 ime, having spoken to a number, they don't Oct 27 16:06:37 well it does, I can a game that is programmed as efficient as possible for the hardware it runs on 'effective' Oct 27 16:06:41 call* Oct 27 16:06:50 Jaffa: actually, there's this DCCI stuff which is something like a standard Oct 27 16:06:51 wumpus: That doesn't mean that the emulation isn't being "effective". Oct 27 16:06:55 wumpus: its a matter of scale. ill take a thousand games running at 80% of the devices native speed instead of ten games running at 100% Oct 27 16:07:09 I'm not talking about the amount of games anyway Oct 27 16:07:14 assuming the games themselves are of equal quality Oct 27 16:07:29 chx: calling a browser that's 5 years old superior to a modern browser is foolish Oct 27 16:07:34 Anyway, am I right to think I'd be able to push decent animation from gecko if we used pixel doubling? Oct 27 16:08:08 _Monkey forget microbe Oct 27 16:08:08 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot microbe Oct 27 16:08:12 _Monkey microbe is Oct 27 16:08:13 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx. Oct 27 16:08:22 alterego: Microbe is a typO Oct 27 16:09:07 sciboy: gecko, the mozilla engine? Oct 27 16:09:13 sparr, Yep. Oct 27 16:09:16 chx: the maemo devices are not aware of physical write protect. so mount will go rw Oct 27 16:09:29 sciboy: is there a reason you cant use something lower level? Oct 27 16:09:42 sparr, Not a programmer and don't ever plan to be. Oct 27 16:09:57 _Monkey forget an openmoko Oct 27 16:09:58 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot openmoko Oct 27 16:10:02 _Monkey an openmoko is Oct 27 16:10:02 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx. Oct 27 16:10:03 indeed, it sounds like a bad idea to use something that high level on a relatively slow device, heck, even on a fast machine the gecko engine sometimes succeeds in being slow Oct 27 16:10:27 Well it's pretty imperative I have a graphical environment to work and script with. Oct 27 16:10:32 it's good for rendering web pages, but real time games is a whole other thing Oct 27 16:10:55 though it's certainly possible Oct 27 16:11:10 I mean, Blenders Game Engine is quite nice in that department. Oct 27 16:11:13 just make a simple script and see what performance you get Oct 27 16:12:23 Don't know where to start. =/ Oct 27 16:13:17 But then again it's past 3AM, so I don't know where anything ends either. Oct 27 16:13:21 I wouldn't know either, I never considered a web browser as a gaming platform, you'd probably have to do some absolute positioning and html dom magic Oct 27 16:14:02 maybe start with one of those scripts that make a train of penguins behind the mouse cursor :P Oct 27 16:14:10 maybe ajax? Oct 27 16:14:37 indeed, for online play Oct 27 16:15:06 but would be much more useful for a turn based game than a realtime one I think Oct 27 16:15:29 sciboy could bring up http daemon and ... Oct 27 16:15:56 timelyx: the maemo device is not aware of the phyiscal protect...? htought the card reports itself read only. Oct 27 16:16:26 afa-w-ct whatever would be responsible for such a report is unavailable Oct 27 16:16:31 http://game-editor.com/ <-- someone should pursue getting these guys to support maemo. they support linux in general, and gp2x specifically, so we know they can compile for ARM. Oct 27 16:16:38 possibly a certain line is not connected Oct 27 16:17:12 wumpus, Huh? I thought you were referring to the pixel doubling. =/ Oct 27 16:17:55 wumpus, Scripting wise a trail of penguins is more complicated than anything I plan on doing. Oct 27 16:43:54 weird, new tablet and i still can't copy more than 2mb over usb without it crashed Oct 27 16:43:57 crashing Oct 27 16:44:25 You've updated the firmware right? Oct 27 16:44:39 Weird. Oct 27 16:44:43 Maybe it's not the tablet .. Oct 27 16:45:17 could not be tablet issue Oct 27 16:48:02 amr: You didn't mention what exactly was crashing. Oct 27 16:50:41 well that was fun, my macbook locked up Oct 27 16:50:52 it does the same thing when i try and copy things over usb on my brothers vista laptop Oct 27 16:51:33 and for some reason i can connect to irc, but thats it, i can't do anything else like /join Oct 27 16:52:07 oh, thats odd Oct 27 16:52:24 Indeed Oct 27 16:52:42 twins? Oct 27 16:52:49 same hostname Oct 27 16:52:56 my tablet Oct 27 16:53:19 amr, what fs is on your card? Oct 27 16:53:27 let me check Oct 27 16:53:55 it doesn't tell me, i believe its fat Oct 27 16:54:40 could be 16/32 Oct 27 16:55:12 some apps for making new fs could read data from it Oct 27 16:55:28 flag could be N or something Oct 27 16:56:32 Ill have a look after dinner Oct 27 16:56:34 Your cards could be read-only. Oct 27 16:57:37 I can write to it on my tablet and if i plug it into a card reader Oct 27 16:58:11 be aware of fat16 restrictions Oct 27 16:58:14 We'll probably see an update to Claws Mail soon. Security hole found in it. Oct 27 16:59:21 How do you mean zoran? Oct 27 16:59:27 zerojay: I find Claws Mail rather useless compared to the stock nokia mail ap. Oct 27 16:59:43 sixpence: I don't use it either. Just warning people. Oct 27 16:59:53 zerojay: Alrighty Oct 27 17:01:03 And with Modest on the way.. not sure there will be much of a need for Claws anymore, but we'll see. Oct 27 17:01:38 Modest? Oct 27 17:01:38 <_Monkey> Modest is an email client built on libtinymail Oct 27 17:01:49 sixpence: http://modest.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 27 17:01:54 Neato. Oct 27 17:02:04 What i'm really trying to do is to get portage on my 770 =| Oct 27 17:02:15 Or some variation thereof. Has anything like this been done? Oct 27 17:02:19 It was meant to be the e-mail client for IT2008, but it didn't make it in time.. so we'll see a beta for it around the time IT2008 is released. Oct 27 17:02:22 sixpence: No, you don't. Oct 27 17:02:48 sixpence: The tablet doesn't really have the horsepower to compile much of anything in a decent amount of time. Oct 27 17:03:10 zerojay: I suppose you're right, I considered that being a problem. Oct 27 17:03:33 You can more or less forget anything more than smallish. Oct 27 17:03:41 Or DSL Oct 27 17:03:46 * alterego wonders what you're talking about. Oct 27 17:03:47 As a portage user myself, I understand wanting it. Oct 27 17:03:52 zerojay: Do you own bot a 770 and an 810? Oct 27 17:03:55 portage? Oct 27 17:03:56 zerojay: Hehe. Gentoo? :D Oct 27 17:04:00 sixpence: Just a N800. Oct 27 17:04:04 ..what would be the advantage over apt-get? Oct 27 17:04:06 sixpence: Yep. Oct 27 17:04:14 gla55: Not dealing with apt-get. Oct 27 17:04:20 zerojay: Same. I'm actually on it right now. All my servers/systems run Gentoo Oct 27 17:04:24 Why compile for your device when they are all the same if you see what i mean Oct 27 17:04:30 :/ Oct 27 17:04:32 amr2: exactly.. Oct 27 17:04:35 Debian ftw Oct 27 17:04:44 Dian FTN (Nubs) Oct 27 17:04:45 amr2: Because I may not want all the features you do. Oct 27 17:04:47 Kidding. Kidding.. Oct 27 17:05:06 Never heard of dian Oct 27 17:05:06 amr, You can have your racing game if someone can get the blender game engine working with super-low-poly scenes. =P Oct 27 17:05:09 zerojay: Yeah. It's really hard not being able to optimise compilation options like use flags and whatnot. Oct 27 17:05:42 optimize, even. Oct 27 17:05:47 sixpence: I'm not really worried about CFLAGS, but I don't like pulling dependencies that I'll never use, especially on a device that's as limited as the tablets. Oct 27 17:05:55 sciboy, or to work with the power vr chip. Oct 27 17:05:58 zerojay: Precisely. Oct 27 17:06:11 zerojay: But I did get dwm working on the 770, which ras a huuge relief. Oct 27 17:06:15 Probably requires too much power though. Oct 27 17:06:46 sixpence: What arch are you on? Oct 27 17:06:58 zerojay: amd_64 Oct 27 17:07:02 You? Oct 27 17:07:03 <_Monkey> You are doing this as root? Oct 27 17:07:10 * zerojay sees glibc updating from 2.5-r4 to 2.6.1 and is slightly nervous. Oct 27 17:07:14 sixpence: Same. Oct 27 17:07:22 zerojay: That's never good. Oct 27 17:07:25 alterego, I'd be happy enough just moving a dozen textured tri's around really, should be in the realm of software rendering at 300mhz Oct 27 17:07:34 Why would I settle for anything else with a 3.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo? Oct 27 17:07:38 sciboy, easily. Oct 27 17:07:40 _monkey forget root Oct 27 17:07:40 <_Monkey> celesteh_away: I forgot root Oct 27 17:07:49 _monkey, root is Oct 27 17:07:49 <_Monkey> OK, celesteh_away. Oct 27 17:07:52 root? Oct 27 17:07:55 sciboy, quake II should run on the N800 under software. Oct 27 17:08:04 shhot Oct 27 17:08:04 alterego, It already does. Oct 27 17:08:05 shoot Oct 27 17:08:07 Probably not too speedy though, as there's no FP. Oct 27 17:08:15 _monkey forget you Oct 27 17:08:15 <_Monkey> celesteh_away: I forgot you Oct 27 17:08:18 It'll run even better at 400mhz, when the tablets get IT2008. Oct 27 17:08:24 Really? I thought it did have an FPU, oh wll. Oct 27 17:08:25 _monkey you is Oct 27 17:08:25 <_Monkey> OK, celesteh_away. Oct 27 17:08:27 well* Oct 27 17:08:34 you? Oct 27 17:08:36 No, Oct 27 17:08:37 ok Oct 27 17:08:40 No FP Oct 27 17:09:32 zerojay: With DWM instead of the stock WM, I can use SSH with SCREEN on my server (comfortably) instead of VNC. Saves a lot of cpu usage. Oct 27 17:09:56 zerojay: I'll do the same with my Windows box once I get netstat working. Oct 27 17:10:13 * alterego shudders Oct 27 17:10:20 I'd do some ssh to my home box if it weren't running at 1680x1050. Oct 27 17:10:34 er.. Oct 27 17:10:37 I meant VNC. Oct 27 17:10:43 zerojay: Lol. Oct 27 17:10:46 zerojay: Yeah, you lost me for a sec Oct 27 17:10:49 Haha Oct 27 17:11:11 I don't feel like having to scroll all over the place. ;) Oct 27 17:11:32 zerojay: Which is why I prefer ssh to tabbed screen any day Oct 27 17:11:53 Modest should support IMAP perfectly... as tinymail, which it is based upon, does. Oct 27 17:12:17 anybody can successfully use Canola r2473M with Firefly media server svn-1586? It seems to start to send the mp3 faile to the Canola, but the 770 responds by connection reset. Oct 27 17:12:19 alterego, Well it stands, if they can get the blender game engine running under the N800 at a half-decent rate, I could easily design and develop games for it. (Probably at 400x240) Oct 27 17:13:10 What's wrong with SDL and GTK? Oct 27 17:13:29 That's like comparing apples to cats. Oct 27 17:13:41 Hah. Oct 27 17:13:45 Lol Oct 27 17:13:51 There are other free OSS game engines. Oct 27 17:13:58 clanlib. Oct 27 17:14:04 Does thoughtfix ever come in here? Oct 27 17:14:13 I think he does. Oct 27 17:14:18 But none nearly as easy for a graphically oriented developer like myself to work in. Oct 27 17:14:48 Well, your obviously not wired to create games then :P Oct 27 17:15:17 No I'm wired to work with established engines and tools. I'm an animator not a programmer. Oct 27 17:15:29 Is there a vmware image for the Chinook SDK? Oct 27 17:15:48 Does the blender SDK have AI? Oct 27 17:15:53 I can still script physics and all that, but I don't have any patience for low-level programming. Oct 27 17:16:08 You could use Python, Oct 27 17:16:22 I know, which is why I'm option for BlenderGE. Oct 27 17:16:27 It uses python scripting. Oct 27 17:16:33 opting* Oct 27 17:16:57 There's PyGame .. Oct 27 17:17:03 It comes down to the fact that I work inside graphical environments. Oct 27 17:17:12 Oh yay, SDL wrapper. >=| Oct 27 17:17:54 It's pretty easy to develop games with SDL. Oct 27 17:18:08 With Python, it should be easy for even you. Oct 27 17:18:20 Blender already has animation, audio, physics, rendering etc. handled and logic abstracted on a nice level. Oct 27 17:18:28 Me, I don't really have any interest in games unfortunately. Oct 27 17:18:41 That means I can get right into the core gameplay instead of blitting. =/ Oct 27 17:18:53 Blender is meant for desktop hardware. Not mobile hardware. Oct 27 17:19:04 Yup, but doesn't mean it won't work. Oct 27 17:19:14 I think it does. Oct 27 17:19:20 BlenderPocjet Oct 27 17:19:22 pocket* Oct 27 17:19:23 Have you tried compiling it? Oct 27 17:19:29 BlenderPocket? Oct 27 17:19:39 http://russose.free.fr/BlenderPocket/ Oct 27 17:19:41 That sounds promising. Oct 27 17:19:49 Just a test case that you might find interesting. Oct 27 17:20:04 For Pocket PC. Oct 27 17:20:08 Well, that might work. Oct 27 17:20:10 It doesn't have the game engine enabled but it shows blender can run under such environments. Oct 27 17:20:50 Erm Oct 27 17:22:09 The lowest-end hardware I've used blender on is a 200mhz laptop with 32mb of memory and no video acceleration and still managed realtime work. Although that's still a totally different ball-game since it had an FPU. =/ Oct 27 17:23:21 I would quite like blender on the N800 .. Oct 27 17:23:42 I don't really care about the game engine but the actual app would be funky. Oct 27 17:24:02 I'm all about the game engine, that means I can develop games and content for the N800 piss easy. Oct 27 17:24:45 Even if I only got a dozen tri's and a low res. to work with. =P Oct 27 17:25:40 That kind of sounds pointless. Oct 27 17:25:55 Why? Oct 27 17:26:15 A dozen triangles .. Oct 27 17:26:22 I'm quite use to pseudo-3d content, such limitations are things I have no trouble working around. Oct 27 17:28:35 Well, I might attempt to port it at. Oct 27 17:28:41 I only need 3 planes to do a simple 2d game, 6 is more than enough. Oct 27 17:28:51 Ah, right. Oct 27 17:29:06 The more I get though, the more I can push the graphics and gameplay. Oct 27 17:29:13 That's just setting the minimum really. Oct 27 17:29:45 Right Oct 27 17:29:48 I wonder what a good way to debug networking problems with an n800 would be. Oct 27 17:30:32 Weird.. Application manager says operation failed when i try and install an app Oct 27 17:30:47 it authenticates properly, but only 1 out of 5 or 10 connections actually get established. And even if they are they seem to timeout or lag heavily. Oct 27 17:30:59 other devices which are connected to the same wifi network work well though. Oct 27 17:31:17 rafl: Using Wireless N? Oct 27 17:31:26 alterego, Regardless of polies though it seems the N800 can't handle fast frame rates at the native resolution. Oct 27 17:31:41 Yeah Oct 27 17:31:59 For editing that's not a problem, but game engine wise I'd have to jump to pixel doubling, frame rate is more important than resolution. Oct 27 17:32:00 zerojay: what's that? Oct 27 17:32:30 zerojay: 802.11n?? these thingies support pre-N or what?? Oct 27 17:32:32 rafl: A wireless protocol used by routers. Oct 27 17:32:39 chx: No. Oct 27 17:32:52 using 802.11g if that's what you're refering to. Oct 27 17:33:03 yah Oct 27 17:33:17 Most routers using N G B in mixed mode break G or B. Oct 27 17:33:21 there is an upcomign standard and you mentioning wireless n made me o_O Oct 27 17:34:25 the router does a/b/g. Oct 27 17:35:21 Interesting. Oct 27 17:35:46 also happens with another router doing b/g only. Oct 27 17:36:24 Are you in Europe but bought a US tablet? Oct 27 17:37:26 it says "made in finnland". Oct 27 17:37:27 US routers use channels 1-11, European routers use 1-13... so if your router is on 12 or 13 but you have a US tablet, it won't be able to connect. Oct 27 17:37:53 the router uses channel 1. Oct 27 17:38:11 Try changing the channel. Might be too much interference. Oct 27 17:38:58 aye Oct 27 17:40:58 alterego, So what would you compile it against for software GL? Oct 27 17:41:11 sciboy, I don't know. Oct 27 17:41:17 It uses SDL right? Oct 27 17:41:27 And OpenGL Oct 27 17:41:27 <_Monkey> OpenGL is a bit of a pandora's box for the tablets Oct 27 17:41:42 The tablets don't have OpenGL Oct 27 17:42:12 They don't have hardware acceleration, but that's why there's slow as shit software rendering libraries. Oct 27 17:42:24 and i'm back Oct 27 17:42:41 I don't think anyone's compiled mesa for maeom. Oct 27 17:42:44 ~maemo Oct 27 17:42:45 well, maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future. http://www.maemo.org/ Oct 27 17:43:48 alterego, Oh... there's alternatives, one sec. Oct 27 17:44:29 alterego, http://forums.blendertestbuilds.de/viewtopic.php?t=24 Oct 27 17:44:34 Might find that interesting. Oct 27 17:50:30 How to change maemo's UI fonts? Any GUI tool? Oct 27 17:52:38 ? Oct 27 17:52:43 you can replace the font files Oct 27 17:52:45 or modify them Oct 27 17:52:49 sciboy, maybe you should talk to those guys then. Oct 27 17:53:16 eton: the hebrew for maemo wiki (?) explains how to modify them Oct 27 17:54:02 timelyx, thanks Oct 27 17:55:51 zerojay: changing the channel doesn't seem to fix anything. Oct 27 17:56:06 zerojay: also all other devices I own work well with that access point. Oct 27 17:56:46 Hmm... I reflashed the device and it's still got my contacts I imported last time Oct 27 17:58:03 Unless... does it pull them down from google? Oct 27 17:58:28 yes Oct 27 17:59:00 but how did it have your account info? Oct 27 17:59:03 did you add the account? Oct 27 17:59:11 yes I added the accounts Oct 27 17:59:23 then yes, when you did that, it grabbed your contacts :) Oct 27 18:00:58 Looks like I'm going to have to edit some of the aliases again Oct 27 18:01:06 get those cleaned up Oct 27 18:01:34 use your web browser :) Oct 27 18:18:53 So who here wants to port Blender? =D Oct 27 18:19:48 you could just make a debian/armel chroot and apt-get install blender there ;) Oct 27 18:22:20 sciboy, sounds like something you could do. Oct 27 18:34:40 timelyx, i think the page you mentioned is not available. Oct 27 18:49:58 hi to all :) Oct 27 18:52:27 somebody speak Spanish? Oct 27 18:55:34 `Hola Oct 27 18:55:36 between 322 and 400 million people, natively Oct 27 18:55:51 sp3000 thanks so much lol Oct 27 18:55:55 Oh, I thought it was a request. Oct 27 18:56:00 alterego hola Oct 27 18:56:04 q tal? Oct 27 18:56:24 I don't actuall know Spanish, sorry. Oct 27 18:56:47 alterego where do you from? Oct 27 18:57:02 England Oct 27 18:57:21 I think the official channel language is English but I'd like to know if there is somebody of Spain Oct 27 18:57:34 cool, I have family in Manchester Oct 27 18:57:41 Do they speak Spanish in Brazil? Oct 27 18:57:42 Knutsford really Oct 27 18:58:01 they speak Portuguese Oct 27 18:58:11 Ah, my mistake. Oct 27 18:58:19 doesn't matter Oct 27 18:58:54 I preffer the irc than the maililist Oct 27 18:59:01 I preffer the irc than the mail list Oct 27 18:59:42 Well, it has it's benifits and it's drawbacks. Oct 27 19:00:02 like everything in this life Oct 27 19:00:41 alterego where do you live in England? Oct 27 19:00:53 Cambridge Oct 27 19:00:53 <_Monkey> Cambridge is a weird outer london IT haven too Oct 27 19:01:05 Hah Oct 27 19:01:46 Maybe some one should setup a TUG (tablet user group). Oct 27 19:01:51 I was in Manchester, Knutsford, Chester and Blackpoll Oct 27 19:01:55 Blackpool Oct 27 19:02:13 Nice Oct 27 19:02:24 <- leeds Oct 27 19:02:31 Chester is so nice Oct 27 19:02:46 I've never been there Oct 27 19:02:49 I live in Leon, at the north of Spain Oct 27 19:03:16 alterego Chester is a nice town with lot of Roman ruins Oct 27 19:03:21 I've never been to spain either. Oct 27 19:03:48 Cambridge is a nice town/city with real roman buildings :) Oct 27 19:03:49 The best season to came to Spain is the summer Oct 27 19:04:11 alterego then I must go to Cambridge Oct 27 19:04:13 It's one of the oldest architectural havens in the country I believe. Oct 27 19:04:13 :) Oct 27 19:04:38 Very scenic. Lots of grass and trees. Oct 27 19:04:47 Not very big though, for a city. Oct 27 19:04:51 like every England lol Oct 27 19:05:45 I live in an old Roman city too Oct 27 19:06:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le?n%2C_Spain Oct 27 19:06:50 Nice Oct 27 19:07:02 the Cathedral is so beautiful Oct 27 19:07:08 * alterego goes to watch some TV Oct 27 19:07:15 Talk to you soon Oct 27 19:07:29 I hope, nice to meet you :) Oct 27 19:35:40 * alterego wonders what all the segfaults in the chinook beta SD Kare about .. Oct 27 19:51:02 alterego: I think xan expressed it quite nicely: http://xach.com/tmp/wip/motiv.html :) Oct 27 19:52:52 Not when the segfaults are from glibc Oct 27 19:53:08 I can't even apt-get install somethings without it segfaulting. Oct 27 19:53:20 * timelyx shrugs Oct 27 19:53:21 This has nothing to do with my code .. Oct 27 19:53:24 apt-get is buggy :) Oct 27 19:53:31 glibc is buggy Oct 27 19:53:34 qemu is buggy Oct 27 19:53:36 tko; that too :) Oct 27 19:53:37 It's not just apt-get Oct 27 19:53:38 all software sucks Oct 27 19:53:49 tko: do you have access to swift from here? :) Oct 27 19:54:07 This is beyond buggy. What have nokia done to glibc2.5 ? Oct 27 19:54:21 timelyx: technically yes, practically I don't have securid with me :) Oct 27 19:54:29 so it might take a while Oct 27 19:54:31 timelyx, could you point me to the hebrew wiki? Oct 27 19:54:51 timelyx i googled but still can't find it. Oct 27 19:58:05 eton: http://test.maemo.org/maemowiki/Hebrew ? Oct 27 19:58:10 how did you google? Oct 27 19:58:15 site:maemo.org hebrew Oct 27 19:59:01 timelyx "maemo hebrew" Oct 27 19:59:20 timelyx, thanks Oct 27 20:07:48 is it possible to use gcc4 in chinhook ? Oct 27 20:08:36 (building it from gnuarm.org sources fails because of different abi version, and scratchbox does have gcc4, but only in apophis) Oct 27 20:08:58 (i mean apophis r4) Oct 27 20:16:28 :( Oct 27 20:18:02 shackan, update ? Oct 27 20:19:01 alterego: sorry? Oct 27 20:19:32 Why don't you update to r4? Oct 27 20:19:55 are you sure you really really want to know? :) Oct 27 20:20:05 No, I don't think I do ;) Oct 27 20:20:06 I have, but chinhook does not use gcc4 Oct 27 20:20:18 Doesn't it? Oct 27 20:20:32 gcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2) Oct 27 20:20:46 Ah, so why do you want gcc4 anyway? Oct 27 20:21:14 it seems what I'm trying to compile (LLVM) isn't happy with gcc 3 on arm Oct 27 20:23:06 :/ Oct 27 20:23:28 so, I've got http://www.scratchbox.org/download/files/sbox-releases/apophis/tarball/scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004-1.0.4-i386.tar.gz Oct 27 20:23:41 uclibc .. Oct 27 20:23:46 That's not right .. Oct 27 20:23:50 grrrrrrrrrrr Oct 27 20:23:53 damn! Oct 27 20:24:23 I'd look more into why it wont compile under gcc3 Oct 27 20:24:35 link errors Oct 27 20:25:13 hell, everytime I want to do anything with scratchbox I run into these sort of issue Oct 27 20:25:16 *issues Oct 27 20:25:33 This doesn't sound like an issue with scratchbox. Oct 27 20:25:47 This sounds like an issue with whatever it is you're attempting to build. Oct 27 20:26:03 ..to build, inside scratchbox :) Oct 27 20:26:19 That is really beside the point shacken. Oct 27 20:26:40 Youd have the exact same problem if you were compiling it on the device. Oct 27 20:26:58 zerojay: wifi problem solved by increasing wlan_sleep_timeout via gconf. Oct 27 20:27:04 yes, because it's stuck at gcc3 Oct 27 20:27:31 No, it's because the software you're attempting to compile is buggy Oct 27 20:27:37 Why should GCC versions matter? Oct 27 20:28:31 because gcc has bugs and newer versions tend to fix those? Oct 27 20:28:35 because gcc has its share of bugs Oct 27 20:29:09 So you think the reason this package wont build is because of a GCC bug? Oct 27 20:29:24 or package bug Oct 27 20:29:52 in my experience bugs tend to be more common in the higher levels Oct 27 20:30:15 alterego: if the same package builds on gcc4 and not on gcc3, then yes Oct 27 20:30:35 shackan, that's a guess. Oct 27 20:30:40 You don't know. Oct 27 20:30:54 (mind you, only the arm version has this problem, gcc3.3 and 3.4 work on x86 and amd64) Oct 27 20:31:02 Your time would be better spent sorting out the bug than attempting to build your own toolchain. Oct 27 20:31:03 alterego: you neither, so what? Oct 27 20:31:36 If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't be wasting my time guessing. Oct 27 20:31:38 well, I assumed one could upgrade the compiler, sorry for wasting your time Oct 27 20:32:14 That's okay :) I have plenty of time to waste. Oct 27 20:32:41 you could try to help then :P Oct 27 20:32:48 I can't even install chinook .. Oct 27 20:33:06 great.. Oct 27 20:33:50 apt-get keeps segfaulting when downloading packages under ARM. Oct 27 20:33:58 It's not very fun. Oct 27 20:34:13 There must be something I'm missing. Oct 27 20:56:18 wondering if there is anything to get home/end/pgup/pgdown for the new slim Apple Bluetooth Keybord Oct 27 20:56:35 also, * that should be a tilde Oct 27 20:56:53 hints, suggestions? Oct 27 20:57:36 Ah, I think I've fixed it :) Oct 27 20:57:44 other than this, Im in love with my n800 :) Oct 27 20:58:14 You can remap your keyboard. Oct 27 20:58:38 You can make up combos to do home/end/pup/pdwn' Oct 27 20:58:52 Does it not have an extended function key? Oct 27 20:59:32 function key doesnt do what id expect Oct 27 20:59:44 Yeah, it'll need to be configured. Oct 27 20:59:53 alterego: xmodmap or something? Oct 27 20:59:59 That's the bunny :) Oct 27 21:00:09 k, good Oct 27 21:00:12 anyone here have access to sardine? Oct 27 21:00:21 do I need to install that extra? Oct 27 21:00:34 macluvjay, not sure. Oct 27 21:00:39 Probably Oct 27 21:02:03 tko: hey, this one is *your* fault Oct 27 21:02:48 it is? Oct 27 21:02:59 * timely_changelog can't find that in the package Oct 27 21:09:01 FCC confidentiality is up. Oct 27 21:09:02 <_Monkey> i already had it that way, zerojay. Oct 27 21:09:18 Can we ban the stupid bot already? Oct 27 21:09:51 _Monkey, forget FCC confidentiality Oct 27 21:09:51 <_Monkey> celesteh: I forgot fcc confidentiality Oct 27 21:09:52 You can always ignore it zerojay Oct 27 21:10:05 _Monkey, FCC confidentiality is Oct 27 21:10:05 <_Monkey> OK, celesteh. Oct 27 21:10:05 Yeah, but it shouldn't be here anyways. Oct 27 21:10:19 Why shouldn't it? Oct 27 21:10:20 it's sometimes helpful Oct 27 21:10:39 * alterego agrees Oct 27 21:10:45 anyway, when it says somethng stupid, you can remove that thing from it's DB Oct 27 21:11:11 It's annoying as hell and it's quite rare that it says anything even remotely helpful... nothing that you wouldn't have found quicker with a google search. Oct 27 21:11:30 At least it doesn't talk on its own. Oct 27 21:11:38 Just ignore it zerojay. Oct 27 21:11:55 it often has the canonical answer and can be very handy for tracking down applications Oct 27 21:12:21 _Monkey, celesteh is a handsome devil Oct 27 21:12:21 <_Monkey> ...but celesteh is back to celesteh's pre-red pill glory... Oct 27 21:12:38 _Monkey, forget celesteh Oct 27 21:12:38 <_Monkey> celesteh: I forgot celesteh Oct 27 21:12:48 _Monkey, celesteh is a handsome devil Oct 27 21:12:49 <_Monkey> OK, celesteh. Oct 27 21:12:53 vanity Oct 27 21:17:13 _Monkey is a joke. Oct 27 21:52:07 Hmm .. Rails on the N810 probably makes sense I guess .. Oct 27 21:52:26 erm.. why? Oct 27 21:52:37 Thumb board Oct 27 21:52:51 -v? Oct 27 21:53:00 Sorry? Oct 27 21:53:37 can you be more verbose about Thumb board? Oct 27 21:53:57 The thumb board on the N810. Oct 27 21:54:27 Having a dedicated hardware keyboard would make writing programs a lot easier on the actual device. Oct 27 21:56:29 did I get things wrong or isn't that related to rails at all? Oct 27 21:57:36 * rafl waits for his garage confirmation mail :-/ Oct 27 22:03:31 this takes ages.. Oct 27 22:05:59 i guess normal bluetooth keyboards will work with this tablets just fine, won't they? Oct 27 22:06:24 we test w/ microsoft bluetooth keyboards Oct 27 22:09:48 i actually thought about getting something smaller and more portable, but i suppose they all work the same anyway Oct 27 22:10:15 just starting hidd shoul do the trick.. Oct 27 22:10:34 w/ usb there are two ways keyboards can work Oct 27 22:10:42 i'm not sure if bt is the same Oct 27 22:10:54 which ways? Oct 27 22:10:57 but one would hope there are a limited number of confused standards Oct 27 22:13:08 i once used my mobile and my wii remote as hid devices via bluetooth on my desktop and it worked fairly well with bluez' hidd. Oct 27 22:13:29 maemo also uses bluez, right? Oct 27 22:13:39 Yes. Oct 27 22:14:03 OHCI and UCHI Oct 27 22:14:12 that was fun Oct 27 22:14:20 yes, maemo uses bluez Oct 27 22:15:06 oh, cute, for usb2 they created EHCI Oct 27 22:16:19 so everything should be fine if the keyboard behaves like a hid device Oct 27 22:16:50 and i'm not aware of any keyboard that doesn't Oct 27 22:21:40 I like so much this irc channels, you can learn so many things :) Oct 27 22:22:25 but it's saturday night, we must go out :P Oct 27 22:23:16 I read there is rumors about 3G N810 Oct 27 22:23:44 well now there certainly are Oct 27 22:24:24 cool, we are like Apple ! :P Oct 27 22:24:37 rumors and more rumors Oct 27 22:24:56 When do we start masturbating? Oct 27 22:25:08 we can go out and still do irc! after all we have some very portable and irc capable devices :-) Oct 27 22:25:18 rafl lol Oct 27 22:26:22 zerojay first we must contract tunw.com domain and write so many stupid rumors on it Oct 27 22:26:41 (the unofficial nokia weblog) Oct 27 22:26:48 HAMs consider it rude (at least some of them) to be on the radio under the influence Oct 27 22:26:56 thankfully, IRC doesn't suffer from that Oct 27 22:26:58 It would be better to make a fake Apple rumors site. Oct 27 22:27:12 uhm.. wanted to register a project called perl at garage.m.o, but it tells me that unix name is already taken although the search doesn't bring up anything on that.. wtf? Oct 27 22:27:22 zerojay: there probably is one already Oct 27 22:27:43 ptman: Probably, but it would be fun anyways as a social experiment. Oct 27 22:27:44 zerojay another? google has an entire cluster lab only for this type of sites :O Oct 27 22:27:48 See how far your rumor goes. Oct 27 22:27:53 garage people around? Oct 27 22:28:47 who likes to be the new steve jobs? Oct 27 22:30:20 i just want to have his salary Oct 27 22:31:46 zerojay can you give a spech with a gadget in one hand and your ego in the another hand? Oct 27 22:32:48 Heh. Oct 27 22:33:26 please remember that you said something about to start masturbating Oct 27 22:33:44 Yeah, that would help to hold anything up. Oct 27 22:35:14 heh.. #maemo++ Oct 27 22:35:21 it could be so cool. the next steve job's keynote will be steve jobs masturbate Oct 27 22:36:18 And there would be thousands of Apple fanboys fighting to be the one to catch his jizz as it flew off the stage. Oct 27 22:36:36 with his black sweater Oct 27 22:38:26 rafl: someone ried to register perl not too long ago Oct 27 22:39:03 specifically, Oct 19 Oct 27 22:39:21 it's currently pending Oct 27 22:39:26 Registration Application: Oct 27 22:39:29 The maemo community needs a central point for coordinating and documenting cross-compilation and testing of perl and CPAN modules. Oct 27 22:39:56 Short Description: Perl interpreter and CPAN extensions. Oct 27 22:40:49 rafl: unfortunately, i'm not sure how much information i should be sharing Oct 27 22:41:22 so you'll have to ask ferenc or someone else for contact info Oct 27 22:44:49 timely_changelog: why isn't this project approved yet? Oct 27 22:45:07 ferenc/ Oct 27 22:47:14 s!/!?! Oct 27 22:47:36 I don't understand people who want the tablet to be a phone. Oct 27 22:48:07 isn't it already? it has speakers, a microphone, a camera, bluetooth and wifi.. Oct 27 22:48:15 all you need, imho. Oct 27 22:48:23 lol Oct 27 22:48:24 i.e. +cellular modem Oct 27 22:48:43 s/modem/radio Oct 27 22:48:58 then I can't understand that either.. :-) Oct 27 22:49:20 rafl: well, i depends on what kind of battery life you expect out of your phone Oct 27 22:49:29 If people want an iPhone, they ought to just buy an iPhone, not try and ruin my beautiful ITs. Oct 27 22:49:34 timely_changelog: agreed Oct 27 22:49:35 my old nokias from 2001/2002 had something like 1week idle Oct 27 22:50:25 timely_changelog: who shall I try to contact wrt to information on that perl project? Oct 27 22:50:49 GeneralAntilles I think 3G conection is important Oct 27 22:51:03 I have a phone with 3g Oct 27 22:51:06 Works great. Oct 27 22:51:38 In Spain the problem isn't the phones, it's the price of the conection :P Oct 27 22:52:00 $20/month with AT&T here. Oct 27 22:52:19 we don't have offers like that Oct 27 22:52:22 GeneralAntilles: ditto in .de. Oct 27 22:53:08 <|tbb1> when do u guys think nokia pull out a wimax it out, is it worth to wait then buying a 810 now? Oct 27 22:53:40 |tbb1: do you have wimax coverage in your area ? Oct 27 22:54:05 it's a good question :P Oct 27 22:54:56 GeneralAntilles: $100 for 100MB in Canada. Oct 27 22:55:12 GeneralAntilles do you have some data restriction or something like that? Oct 27 22:55:13 iPhone = $800. Oct 27 22:55:25 Yes, we've been over the finer points of your awesome data access up there, zerojay. :P Oct 27 22:55:45 <|tbb1> whats a wimax coverage? i was thinking having a wimax router at home i can surf near some kilometres. am iam wrong# Oct 27 22:55:48 BlueGene, yes and no. Oct 27 22:55:51 I've heard reports of one Oct 27 22:55:55 but I've never actually hit it. Oct 27 22:56:27 GeneralAntilles could you explain me your line " Yes, we've been over the finer points of your awesome data access up there, zerojay. :P", please? Oct 27 22:56:46 We've discussed the crappy data access in Canada before. Oct 27 22:57:11 ok, thanks, my English is no good Oct 27 22:57:28 here I can practise it Oct 27 22:57:36 :) Oct 27 22:57:49 I'd like that you correct me if I say something wrong :) Oct 27 22:59:52 |tbb1: There are WiMax modems. Almost all the major ISPs here in Canada have a WiMax offering now. Oct 27 22:59:52 |tbb1: I don't know if they're cheap enough for domestic use Oct 27 23:00:07 In Spain, 60 euros/month 1Gb of data transfer Oct 27 23:01:00 GeneralAntilles you can install the emule in your iPhone :P Oct 27 23:01:53 <|tbb1> anyone knows if the wlan chip on n810 the same as on 800 Oct 27 23:07:32 <|tbb1 Oct 27 23:07:44 I don't know but I'm searching it Oct 27 23:08:33 The FCC confidentiality stuff is up, so check there. Oct 27 23:09:00 <|tbb1> the what Oct 27 23:09:33 i wonder if the clutter library would run on maemo Oct 27 23:10:36 rafl: Considering Karoliina is posting stuff about clutter over the last few days, I'd imagine. Oct 27 23:10:55 I think it's the same chip Oct 27 23:11:15 Check thoughtfix's dmesg Oct 27 23:11:26 good idea Oct 27 23:11:31 Man, mediaserv is the best. Oct 27 23:13:20 zerojay: posting where? Oct 27 23:13:51 Planet. Oct 27 23:13:53 http://thoughtfix.com/tabletblog/dmesg.txt Oct 27 23:13:55 here Oct 27 23:14:04 and much more stuff Oct 27 23:14:23 http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/hacker-questions.html Oct 27 23:14:29 this is the entire psot Oct 27 23:14:30 post Oct 27 23:14:31 <|tbb1> k same driver cx3110x Oct 27 23:14:52 [ 0.726562] drivers/usb/net/rtl8150.c: rtl8150 based usb-ethernet driver v0.6.2 (2004/08/27) Oct 27 23:14:52 [ 0.726562] usbcore: registered new interface driver rtl8150 Oct 27 23:16:32 it's the same driver but it can be not the same device Oct 27 23:17:18 fcc ... Oct 27 23:17:41 http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/look-inside-n810.html#links Oct 27 23:17:57 timely_changelog I think that you say this link Oct 27 23:18:03 http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/look-inside-n810.html#links Oct 27 23:18:10 No. Oct 27 23:18:13 FCC. Oct 27 23:18:30 this? https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/ViewExhibitReport.cfm?mode=Exhibits&RequestTimeout=500&calledFromFrame=N&application_id=233495&fcc_id=%27LJPRX-44%27 Oct 27 23:22:17 |tbb1 why do you like to know it?? Oct 27 23:23:10 <|tbb1> looking 4ward for an atheros based wlan chip ;) Oct 27 23:24:06 I can write in the mail list but I think that all people that can answer me is here Oct 27 23:25:35 zerojay: actually those blog posts don't say anything about maemo, do they? Oct 27 23:26:05 Well, they have to be showing up on Planet for a reason. Oct 27 23:26:48 rafl It don't say anything about maemo but I think it's relacionated Oct 27 23:27:14 it's a dmesg!!! lol Oct 27 23:27:43 no maemo no dmesg Oct 27 23:27:47 zerojay: because his blog is listed on the planet? or is there any filtering done? Oct 27 23:28:19 * alterego debates stopping support for OS2006 Oct 27 23:28:45 Do it. Oct 27 23:28:59 I think it's filtering Oct 27 23:29:02 Anybody who know's what they're doing should be using 2007HE, anyway. Oct 27 23:29:16 and 2008HE is all but confirmed. Oct 27 23:29:40 Yeah Oct 27 23:30:00 But what about the people that don't know what they're doing> Oct 27 23:30:04 You know .. users .. Oct 27 23:30:07 so i apparently don't know what i'm doing :-/ Oct 27 23:30:16 ;) Oct 27 23:30:19 save the users! think of the users! Oct 27 23:30:24 alterego: The same ones that wouldn't know how to install your program to begin with? Oct 27 23:31:05 I think you're a bit unhappy with something/somebody.... Oct 27 23:31:18 :) Oct 27 23:31:27 in fact i haven't ever heared of that.. but otoh i got a tablet link three days ago. Oct 27 23:31:42 tablet link? Oct 27 23:32:18 eh? Oct 27 23:32:30 You said it. Oct 27 23:33:44 whops Oct 27 23:34:01 lol Oct 27 23:34:06 that should have been 'like' Oct 27 23:34:26 what is otoh? Oct 27 23:34:45 i'm new to this onscreen keyboard, you know? :-) Oct 27 23:35:12 BlueGene: abbr. for on the other hand Oct 27 23:35:23 thanks so much :) Oct 27 23:35:32 rafl where are you from? Oct 27 23:35:32 N800 went down again Oct 27 23:35:36 $218 on buy Oct 27 23:35:48 BlueGene: .de Oct 27 23:36:00 you're so near Oct 27 23:36:08 20 euros with ryanair Oct 27 23:36:11 GeneralAntilles: got mine for 150 EUR Oct 27 23:36:56 BlueGene: if there was an airport around here.. Oct 27 23:36:56 N800 for 150 EUR? Oct 27 23:37:11 150 euros = 218 dollars :P Oct 27 23:37:26 <|tbb1> rafl: where u have buyed it, used or new Oct 27 23:37:44 I say ebay Oct 27 23:37:53 uh.. i was thinking eur.. Oct 27 23:38:38 rafl me too, but I remember that euro is so higher than dollar, then I caught my calc and ..... Oct 27 23:38:59 |tbb1: a friend bought a new one like 4 weeks ago and then wanted to have an ipod touch instead Oct 27 23:39:10 N800 in germany costs 1.7 times the n800 in usa (based on amazon prices) Oct 27 23:39:23 so its almost as new, but not quite Oct 27 23:39:44 <|tbb1> good 4 u Oct 27 23:39:54 With these exchange rates, it is hard to see how nokia makes profit in USA Oct 27 23:40:15 pupnik, Your nickname keeps popping up when ever I mention games. Oct 27 23:40:24 I suscribed me to the developer program, I didn't suscribe in the 770 and N800 developer programs Oct 27 23:40:25 Heh Oct 27 23:40:52 I attempted to join the developer program for the 770 but got denied. Oct 27 23:41:08 Didn't bother with the N800 Oct 27 23:41:08 pupnik: with europeans buying things in .us because they are way cheaper there? :-) Oct 27 23:41:11 oh sciboy there is a blender subproject for pdas Oct 27 23:41:31 pupnik, Blenderpocket? Oct 27 23:41:39 forgot the name Oct 27 23:41:50 <|tbb1> whats blender Oct 27 23:41:51 <_Monkey> somebody said blender was meant for desktop hardware. Not mobile hardware. Oct 27 23:42:17 two friends of me joined the developer program for the 770 and they had the tablet but I don't know how, because I think they only send an email saying "I know to program, I'd like one" Oct 27 23:42:18 |tbb1, 3D application for everything including the kitchen sink. Oct 27 23:42:19 it's a 3d modeleing program Oct 27 23:42:40 |tbb1, http://www.blender.org Oct 27 23:43:14 Interesting. Oct 27 23:43:34 I have a feeling I got denied because I've never been a part of any open source project. Oct 27 23:43:37 I have my hope on the developer program :) Oct 27 23:43:43 Why in the world would anybody want to use Blender on a PDA? :\ Oct 27 23:43:47 <|tbb1> 4 me it dont make sense running it on a tablet Oct 27 23:43:50 alterego like my friends :P Oct 27 23:44:09 Hopefully ruby-maemo will tip the scales in my favour and I'll get accepted into the next one :) Oct 27 23:44:25 |tbb1, 4 me, it features a very easy to use game engine that would allow me to really lay back and focus on content. Oct 27 23:44:44 It would certainly be nice to write some location aware apps. Oct 27 23:45:05 GeneralAntilles, -> Game engine <- Oct 27 23:45:14 I'd like to develop some wifi and gps applications Oct 27 23:45:16 alterego: If you're visible in the community, I don't see how you wouldn't get accepted. Oct 27 23:45:21 500 discounts.. Oct 27 23:45:24 <|tbb1> sciboy: way 2 go Oct 27 23:45:34 I doubt the blender game engine is usable on a tablet Oct 27 23:45:44 but It be cool if I have the tablet lol Oct 27 23:46:28 I dunno, 500 may seem like a lot but I don't really know the scale of the maemo community. Oct 27 23:46:33 pupnik, In what way? Oct 27 23:46:57 performance Oct 27 23:47:05 Sure it seems quite small but nokia have to be making something from them if they're continuing the development of the platform .. Oct 27 23:47:07 I wouldn't say there are that many active. Oct 27 23:47:46 * timely_changelog grumbles Oct 27 23:48:06 pupnik, I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to do super-low-poly work on non-float software rendering, the physics is more of a concern but what ever. Oct 27 23:48:11 I'd imagine you'd see the top bloggers get them.. the same ones that were invited to the latest shindig.. maybe the top 10 or 20 (known, quality) posters on ITT, maybe 10 or 20 most active/helpful bugzilla users... Oct 27 23:48:17 * timely_changelog kicks riku for poor spelling Oct 27 23:48:44 timely_changelog: Found another text bug? Oct 27 23:48:48 pupnik, Oh and that's assuming it's pixel doubled. Oct 27 23:49:14 It seemed like they were orienting the program at new comers too. Oct 27 23:49:24 I suppose I'm actually a new comer :) Oct 27 23:49:34 I've only had my tablet for about 2 months. Oct 27 23:49:36 Well, being a dev and all sure should help. Oct 27 23:49:48 aww.. dropbear-client sessions always seem to hang after a short period of being idle.. Oct 27 23:50:05 Meh, dropbear sucks :P Oct 27 23:50:09 what might be wrong here? Oct 27 23:50:10 openssh ftw Oct 27 23:50:19 shall i use openssh? Oct 27 23:50:27 If you like. Oct 27 23:50:35 It's certainly more functional. Oct 27 23:50:58 aww.. i should get faster on this onscreen keyboard.. :-) Oct 27 23:51:28 aye.. will try openssh-client now. Oct 27 23:52:26 If you install the server you can get root access and use sshfs like all the cool kids. Oct 27 23:53:28 I'll tell you what else is cool. SSH'ing to you development machine, sshfs mounting your tablet and developing programs, compiling them and testing them in the bath. Oct 27 23:53:47 pupnik, The game logic would have to be kept under close scrutiny and modularisation but really, none of that would get in the way of game dev. Oct 27 23:54:27 i did get root access, but i used dropbear-server. Oct 27 23:54:34 sciboy, have you tried talking to the guy that's been working on the port? Oct 27 23:54:45 I assume there is no port right now. Oct 27 23:55:17 What about the person that wrote the forum post saying he'd got it working on his tablet? Oct 27 23:55:43 alterego: everything you can do in the bath with your tablet is cool! Oct 27 23:55:53 That's already two years old, only a test and he didn't do much to get it working. Oct 27 23:56:00 :) Oct 27 23:56:22 That's probably a good thing .. Oct 27 23:56:26 also.. have we started masturbating yet? Oct 27 23:56:29 Yes it is. Oct 27 23:56:44 three times! Oct 27 23:56:50 So why don't you try and get it working rafl? Oct 27 23:56:54 rafl, Since when did we ever stop? Oct 27 23:57:14 * rafl tries to catch up Oct 27 23:57:16 lol Oct 27 23:58:22 alterego: i guess i do have it working already. Oct 27 23:58:35 The opengl rendering I have no doubt would be fine, but when you start taxing on the demands of game logic and physics, I'm not sure 400mhz will do it without an FPU. Oct 27 23:58:40 Sorry rafl, I meant sciboy ;) Oct 27 23:58:50 this masturbating party is remembering me that my girlfriend will go to Poland tomorrow for a week Oct 27 23:59:00 Heh Oct 27 23:59:13 alterego, Because I wouldn't be able to maintain a port. Oct 27 23:59:34 Why not? Oct 27 23:59:56 me too, I must finish my computer engineer degree in december Oct 28 00:00:03 No interest or patience, not a programmer. Oct 28 00:00:12 I'm a programmer :) Oct 28 00:00:39 But you expect someone else to do it for you? Seriously, it's probably not that a greater task. Oct 28 00:00:39 I'm just an animator looking for an engine to work with so I can focus on content. Oct 28 00:00:54 If you get somewhere with it I'd be happy to take on and maintain the project. Oct 28 00:01:19 alterego what is this project? Oct 28 00:01:42 Blender 3D modeller and game SDK on maemo Oct 28 00:01:53 BlueGene, Just to see whether a blender ge port could work under major performance restrictions. Oct 28 00:02:06 so i got some perl ports working, but building them requires some modifications to the scratchbox environment. is that fine or do you maemo people have things link FTBFS bugs like we debian people do? Oct 28 00:02:34 BlueGene, So I can actually stop worrying about code and just crank out games on an easy to use engine. Oct 28 00:02:37 rafl, what kind of modifications? Oct 28 00:02:43 I don't like this kind of applicatios, this is the problem :P Oct 28 00:02:54 rafl, you're probably also best asking on the mailing list for something like FTBFS. Oct 28 00:03:23 alterego: two symlinks in /usr and some env vars which scratchbox fucks up. Oct 28 00:03:30 I think we must port MatLab :P Oct 28 00:04:01 BlueGene: that'd be cool, indeed. Oct 28 00:04:03 rafl, as long as it runs on the device without any odd modifications it should be fine. Oct 28 00:04:24 Though, you should probably submit a bug report too. Oct 28 00:04:25 rafl I think MathWorks must say something about it :P Oct 28 00:04:26 BlueGene, If it did work I got lots of game designs I'd be happy to produce for it. Oct 28 00:04:29 For the SDK. Oct 28 00:05:40 alterego: i'm fairly sure it would as it doesn't have all those scratchbox hacks, but i really don't want to try that. Oct 28 00:05:53 rafl but R or octave could be ported, it's a nice idea Oct 28 00:06:08 alterego: i don't have infinite time, you know? :-) Oct 28 00:06:20 You don't want to try it on the device? Oct 28 00:06:34 do the tablets have an fpu? Oct 28 00:06:40 No Oct 28 00:07:05 alterego: right. compiling perl the way i do takes a while. Oct 28 00:07:27 I don't mean compile it on the device .. Oct 28 00:07:33 alterego: on recent laptop hardware, that is. Oct 28 00:07:35 I mean as long as your packages work on the device. Oct 28 00:07:41 oh.. Oct 28 00:07:52 It doesn't matter how you screw around with your SDK to get your package working. Oct 28 00:08:17 But if it seems like there's something wrong with scratchbox or the rootstrap etc. Then you should definitely file a bug report. Oct 28 00:08:49 doesn't that suck as you can't apt-get source and debuild? Oct 28 00:09:18 on monday I will start a mobile devices developing course in C# with visual studio 2005 Oct 28 00:09:22 I'm so excited!!! Oct 28 00:09:31 Um... Oct 28 00:09:37 Sounds interesting Oct 28 00:09:38 Most mobile devices use Java. Oct 28 00:09:40 are you bringing a shotgun? Oct 28 00:09:52 it's mostly caused by the perl shipped with the perl devkit. i don't really know where to fix this, though. Oct 28 00:10:05 BlueGene: you fail! Oct 28 00:10:14 That sounds like a scratchbox isue. Oct 28 00:10:15 rafl why?! Oct 28 00:10:39 BlueGene: visual anything? come on.. Oct 28 00:10:47 xDDDDDD Oct 28 00:10:53 alterego: or a perl issue Oct 28 00:11:12 rafl: what is the problem Oct 28 00:11:20 alterego: i'd blame the former, but,i'm not entirely sure. Oct 28 00:11:39 rafl you must know your enemy to hate him Oct 28 00:11:40 you are missing perl things in scratchbox? Oct 28 00:12:10 Right Oct 28 00:12:25 pupnik: missing /bin/pwd and /usr/bin/perl and weird $PATH and $PER5LIB. Oct 28 00:12:55 thin I will port mono and monodevelop to maemo platform :P Oct 28 00:12:58 Weird Oct 28 00:13:11 and you can develop with C# in the bath!!!! Oct 28 00:13:11 symlinking the two paths.and sanatising those env vars fixes it. Oct 28 00:13:14 I think someone is already working on mono Oct 28 00:13:29 And I'd rather develop in Ruby than C# Oct 28 00:13:42 Hell .. I'd rather develop in Python than C# Oct 28 00:13:51 yeah - i've seen several mono related maemo things. Oct 28 00:13:56 C# is the microsoft's Java :P Oct 28 00:13:57 my scratchbox has /bin/pwd and /bin/perl Oct 28 00:14:12 BlueGene, I know, I don't like Java much either. Oct 28 00:14:31 java is so good programming language Oct 28 00:14:41 pupnik: mine didn't. freshly installed from latest packages Oct 28 00:14:46 I disagree. Oct 28 00:14:58 and you can compile it without bitecodes to have much more speedly applications Oct 28 00:15:06 Java could have been so much better. Oct 28 00:15:14 apt-cache search perl shows among others, perl-base, perl, perl-modules Oct 28 00:15:15 If it had syntax like Ruby Oct 28 00:15:22 pupnik: but i can try to reproduce tomorrow if you,want me to. Oct 28 00:15:26 how? Oct 28 00:15:30 Java is the worst thing to put on a mobile device... made no sense. Oct 28 00:15:54 zerojay, it makes perfect sense. It works on all the varying hardware that is around. Oct 28 00:15:54 pupnik: real packages or fake packages? Oct 28 00:15:57 why? Oct 28 00:16:03 That's one good use I can see for Java .. Oct 28 00:16:06 when? lol Oct 28 00:16:29 alterego: Only because it was put on all of them. Oct 28 00:17:03 Just about anything else would have been better on such a limited resource platform. Oct 28 00:17:03 There was/is literally no better alternative for mobile handset development, Oct 28 00:17:11 I like so much Java, C# and C++ Oct 28 00:17:13 If you want to target the entire market. Oct 28 00:17:22 alterego: Java isn't the entire market. Oct 28 00:17:32 looks real to me rafl - I don't know what your prob is, but if you want me to run any commands i can do that for you (i.e. apt-cache show or such) Oct 28 00:17:32 BlueGene, then you're the opposite of me :P Oct 28 00:17:53 zerojay, I was exaggerating. Oct 28 00:18:06 the entire market are the users, the users do not matter what the language program you're using Oct 28 00:18:08 But seriously, Java on mobile handsets is the best thing to happen to them. Oct 28 00:18:29 i have an application where it doesn't make sense to turn the display brightness down. is there an api which allows me to tell maemo not to do that? Oct 28 00:18:32 I do mobile development professionally.. and putting Java on cell phones was just about the worst idea anyone could have. Oct 28 00:18:36 I think you're missing the point BlueGene Java isn't a great language, it's not even that good. Oct 28 00:18:47 zerojay, whatever .. Oct 28 00:18:58 zerojay, what would you prefer? Oct 28 00:19:01 and most ARM processors are optimized to run java bytecode natively, so it supposedly runs better than mono Oct 28 00:19:06 Anything else. Literally ANYTHING else. Oct 28 00:19:12 alterego why Java is a goof language? Oct 28 00:19:12 BREW isn't bad. Oct 28 00:19:14 zerojay, there is nothing else! Oct 28 00:19:18 pupnik: dpkg -l perl-base Oct 28 00:19:24 alterego: Head in the sand? Oct 28 00:19:28 zerojay: have you ever developed on BREW ? Oct 28 00:19:37 shackan: Yes. Oct 28 00:19:43 I work for a cell phone gaming company. Oct 28 00:19:48 omg Oct 28 00:19:48 Java and BREW is what we do. Oct 28 00:20:15 Not that BREW is all that great anyways... Oct 28 00:20:32 The one and only thing Java gives us is the portability... but that's not even really true. Oct 28 00:20:52 well, it's not so bad if you have a company who pays for signing certificates and stuff :) Oct 28 00:20:52 So many different phones have different JVMs. Oct 28 00:21:02 All of them with their own bugs. Oct 28 00:21:08 BlueGene, it's not very flexible. Has barely any introspective (reflection) capabilities. It's not very dynamic. Oct 28 00:21:09 ii perl-base 5.8.3-3osso4 The Pathologically Eclectic Rubbish Lister Oct 28 00:21:22 hahahahaha, sooo true! Oct 28 00:21:39 Got a Samsung that thinks a Rect with a 1 pixel border means "1 pixel border on the left and right sides and 0 border on top and bottom". Oct 28 00:21:41 zerojay: unrelated, but do you do OpenglES stuff too ? Oct 28 00:21:50 shackan: Can't say we do. Oct 28 00:21:51 zerojay: my condolence Oct 28 00:21:59 but we are spreading out into other areas. Oct 28 00:22:05 I'll give it credit, it's cleaner than C++ Oct 28 00:22:09 Which I can't talk about.. but I'm sure anyone could guess. Oct 28 00:22:10 alterego could you explain this? Oct 28 00:22:21 pupnik: erm.. how did you create that target? Oct 28 00:22:21 alterego: Not really. It's also slow as shit. Oct 28 00:22:25 zerojay: SNAP and N-Gage ? :) Oct 28 00:22:30 zerojay, maybe on the hardware you use .. Oct 28 00:22:39 alterego: 500+ phones. Oct 28 00:22:47 zerojay, exactly .. Oct 28 00:22:55 shackan: No, think further out. Oct 28 00:23:03 Filename: pool/herring/main/p/perl/perl-base_5.8.3-3osso4_armel.deb Oct 28 00:23:22 zerojay: I'm in deep water then... Oct 28 00:23:22 herring? Oct 28 00:23:36 hola Oct 28 00:23:50 deb http://repository.maemo.org/ herring main Oct 28 00:23:51 _Monkey: where are you when i need you? Oct 28 00:23:52 <_Monkey> bugger all, i dunno, rafl Oct 28 00:23:54 lopz hola Oct 28 00:24:11 rafl try repository search Oct 28 00:24:13 repositories? Oct 28 00:24:14 hey BlueGene :P Oct 28 00:24:14 <_Monkey> repositories is probably http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php Oct 28 00:24:19 pupnik: what does herring stand for? Oct 28 00:24:23 BlueGene, speak spanish ? Oct 28 00:24:34 lopz que remedio, soy de Leon Oct 28 00:24:36 pupnik: some branch? something unofficial? Oct 28 00:24:40 The whole idea behind Java on phones is the idea that you could take the same executable and run it anywhere. But that's not true in practice. That's why for 200 phones, we have about 120 different builds. Oct 28 00:24:43 rafl, it doesn't _stand_ for anything it's a tag Oct 28 00:24:54 BlueGene, ah vale, y tienes la n800 ? Oct 28 00:24:59 i see Oct 28 00:25:06 BREW in the US isn't very exciting, but the stuff going on in Korea with BREW is nuts. Oct 28 00:25:09 like gregale, mistral Oct 28 00:25:09 there's another idea behind java on phones, and that's the sandbox Oct 28 00:25:15 users can't get at thw hardware Oct 28 00:25:17 lopz no, pero tu nick me suena mucho Oct 28 00:25:25 celesteh: Also not true in practice. Oct 28 00:25:27 BlueGene, mm.. por que ? xD Oct 28 00:25:37 en q canales sueles andar por el hispano? Oct 28 00:25:40 BlueGene, entonces tienes la 770 ? Oct 28 00:25:43 i haven't seen any tagged debian repository yet.. although i'm developing denian. Oct 28 00:25:48 BlueGene, en ninguno, solo freenode :) Oct 28 00:25:52 lopz no, no tengo ninguna Oct 28 00:25:52 theoretically a user with C or something could break telecom laws Oct 28 00:26:03 lopz y has estado metido en algun lug de linux o algo asi? Oct 28 00:26:11 java is such a lovely theory. really. Oct 28 00:26:34 I understand the choice when it was made.. it's just too bad it didn't work out. Oct 28 00:26:35 well!! I think we have a new great flame!!!!!! ;P Oct 28 00:26:46 If it was a nicer language .. It would be awesome. Oct 28 00:26:58 If they all used the same JVM, it would be awesome. Oct 28 00:27:21 zerojay this is impossible Oct 28 00:27:27 BlueGene: It is now. Oct 28 00:27:34 BlueGene, hazme un whois y mira xD Oct 28 00:27:36 Wasn't back when they started. Oct 28 00:28:11 lopz pues sabe dios de q te conozco Oct 28 00:28:15 Got the LG CU920... a bit of a problem with it. Oct 28 00:28:15 pero me suenas fijo Oct 28 00:28:24 yo antes usaba el nick de DHUNCAN Oct 28 00:28:34 It's sort of like the iphone. No buttons.. entire screen.. software keyboard. Oct 28 00:28:45 Problem.. there's no way for us to use it in Java. Oct 28 00:29:05 So we either write our own virtual keyboard, or abandon the phone. Oct 28 00:29:12 Hahah Oct 28 00:29:18 zerojay the same JVM but each mobile phone has its peculiarities Oct 28 00:29:28 BlueGene: Wrong. Not the same JVM. Oct 28 00:29:38 alterego: openssh gives me the same issue, except it just hangs for a while and doesn't just disconnect Oct 28 00:29:44 Otherwise, they would all leak memory like those fucking Nokia 3650/7650s do. Oct 28 00:29:50 BlueGene, pues no lo sé, igual aqui paro siempre xD Oct 28 00:29:55 rafl, maybe it's a server configuration issue then. Oct 28 00:30:13 aqui nos ves, midiendonos las pollas a ver q lenguaje de programacion es mejor..... Oct 28 00:30:14 rafl, or your wireless connection is turning off after being idle for so long Oct 28 00:30:19 lo q hace el aburrimiento Oct 28 00:30:19 Check your connection settings. Oct 28 00:30:30 rafl: You can have ssh send keep alive packets. Oct 28 00:30:32 lopz tu de donde eres?? Oct 28 00:30:41 alterego: but my laptop, which is connected to the same host and screen session over the same route doesn't have those problems. Oct 28 00:30:45 BlueGene, Santa Cruz, y tu ? Oct 28 00:30:49 Leon Oct 28 00:31:09 al rico frio del norte, oiga! Oct 28 00:31:15 rafl, check the connection settings, specifically the idle timeout. Oct 28 00:31:15 Okko_, que haces aqui ? Oct 28 00:31:16 y q qrias preguntar en el canal? Oct 28 00:31:24 BlueGene, nada, siempre entro :) Oct 28 00:31:34 yo entre hoy por primera vez Oct 28 00:31:36 cuando tengo un problema suele preguntar, pero rar vez , y tu ? Oct 28 00:31:37 se aprenden muchas cosas Oct 28 00:31:48 zerojay: it's not that i've been idle, but i'll investigate into this. Oct 28 00:31:50 BlueGene, si, pero tienes algun cacharo con mamemo ? Oct 28 00:31:52 hasta ahora solo estaba suscrio a la lista d desarollo Oct 28 00:31:52 maemo* Oct 28 00:31:54 alterego: it's 0 Oct 28 00:31:59 rafl: It might help. Worth a shot. Oct 28 00:32:02 lopz no pero estamos en ello Oct 28 00:32:07 alterego: i.e. turned off. Oct 28 00:32:13 0? Oct 28 00:32:18 It shouldn't go to 0 Oct 28 00:32:26 It should be "unlimited" Oct 28 00:32:51 y tu? tienes algun trasnto de estos? Oct 28 00:33:05 "Connection Manager" -> (menu) "tools" -> "Connectivity Settings" -> "Idle times" Oct 28 00:33:44 right. i didn't check it right now but i remembered i set it to "no idle timeout" Oct 28 00:34:17 BlueGene, si, la n800 Oct 28 00:34:24 esta a mi lado xD Oct 28 00:34:46 a mi me molaria pillar la 810 pero no se yo si se me arreglara Oct 28 00:34:50 como pillaste la tuya? Oct 28 00:35:13 oh.. hi Fatal! Oct 28 00:38:31 is there anything i can do about a bad quality of the bui;tin camera on the n800? Oct 28 00:38:48 lower your expectations Oct 28 00:38:55 aye Oct 28 00:38:56 Heh Oct 28 00:39:04 with sufficiently lowered expecations, you should not be disappointed Oct 28 00:39:26 can i connect arbitrary devices to the usb port? Oct 28 00:39:41 as long as they're hosts Oct 28 00:39:46 Sure, if you enable USB OTG host mode. Oct 28 00:39:52 well.. in a way where the devices actually work.. Oct 28 00:40:00 hrm.. Oct 28 00:40:01 since the n800 is considered a dummy mass storage device typically Oct 28 00:40:04 too bad Oct 28 00:40:12 Devices that need power must be powered somehow. Oct 28 00:40:21 usb keyboard would have been cool. Oct 28 00:40:30 if you don't mind unsupported, things are possible Oct 28 00:40:43 it's only hardware+software... Oct 28 00:40:48 i actually do mind Oct 28 00:41:23 but i'll give it a try when i have infinite time. Oct 28 00:41:57 time is infinite Oct 28 00:42:11 Relatively infinite .. Oct 28 00:42:18 Thats deep. Oct 28 00:43:37 mine isn't Oct 28 00:44:27 does somebody knows visual paradigm? Oct 28 00:45:19 anyone running zsh on maemo? Oct 28 00:45:38 * timely_changelog grins Oct 28 00:45:46 glimpseindex -R is my friend Oct 28 00:45:50 BlueGene, la 810 ? ya hay esa ? :S Oct 28 00:46:03 como pillaste la tuya? Oct 28 00:46:50 me la trajeron de EEUU Oct 28 00:47:54 noooooooooooooooo!!! Oct 28 00:48:00 BlueGene, tio, me pillo la N810 Oct 28 00:48:11 no sabia que ya estaba a la venta xD Oct 28 00:48:28 wow. i knew i should have taken spanish in high school Oct 28 00:48:38 lol Oct 28 00:48:50 ceelesteh: personally, i regret not having taken french in high school Oct 28 00:48:59 but, that's because i moved to europe Oct 28 00:49:08 Heh Oct 28 00:49:11 heh, me too Oct 28 00:49:18 I was forced to learn it in high school, which meant I didn't learn it. Oct 28 00:49:24 celesteh: shouldn't they have taken english? Oct 28 00:49:39 i took german and i can still understand a lot of it. but i've lived in france, the netherlands and england. i might never get to germany Oct 28 00:49:39 I learned more in the last two years than I did all through school. Oct 28 00:49:42 rafl: having visited various european countries Oct 28 00:49:47 can I install libboost-dev debian testing package inside maemo gregale? Oct 28 00:49:51 just because people take English doesn't mean they can use it Oct 28 00:50:10 english is one of the most difficult languages to learn. Oct 28 00:50:25 I don't think so Oct 28 00:50:31 timely_changelog: i guess i pretty much prove your point. Oct 28 00:50:31 it's sort of obnoxious to expect everybody else on earth to have to spend years studying may native language Oct 28 00:50:40 BlueGene, me pillo la n810 tio, me pongo al caso :) Oct 28 00:50:56 lops pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta Oct 28 00:51:02 mi lernis esperanton, sed mi forgesis tuton Oct 28 00:51:16 Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!!!!!!!! Oct 28 00:51:25 hahaha! Oct 28 00:51:30 lopz pues a ver de donde la sacas, xq aun no ha salido a la venta Oct 28 00:51:41 Nobody expects Japanese Herpes either. Oct 28 00:51:51 um. ew. Oct 28 00:52:26 Sorry. I felt the need to match up with BlueGene's completely random sentence. ;) Oct 28 00:52:41 un minuto por favor: Can I install a debian testing package inside maemo gregale? Oct 28 00:52:49 you succeeded Oct 28 00:52:56 BlueGene, ni en EEUU ? Oct 28 00:53:00 no Oct 28 00:53:06 mediados de noviembre Oct 28 00:53:35 zerojay :P Oct 28 00:53:52 rene4jazz solo sabes decir eso? :P Oct 28 00:54:05 BlueGene, joder, espero que baje un pco el precio Oct 28 00:54:10 mejor Oct 28 00:54:14 480 euros xD Oct 28 00:54:16 no sé decir otras cosas, pero éso es una duda que tengo ahora ;) Oct 28 00:54:30 de donde eres?? Oct 28 00:54:37 cubano Oct 28 00:55:08 me ha dado clases de microsoft wpf las dos ultimas semanas un cubano llamado octavio Oct 28 00:55:20 is an email w/ only 3 letters in it "spam"? Oct 28 00:55:23 nice Oct 28 00:55:25 BlueGene, a esperar no queda mas Oct 28 00:55:41 timely_changelog: Are the 3 letters "yes"? Oct 28 00:55:46 rene4jazz un cachondo mental :P Oct 28 00:55:47 MsD Oct 28 00:55:49 aw.. i have a shiny device with a touchscreen now and i already start using it like any other computer.. with the commandline :-/ Oct 28 00:55:50 lopz pues si Oct 28 00:56:02 timely_changelog: Spam. Oct 28 00:56:03 yo me piro para la cama q estoy reventado!!!!!!!!! Oct 28 00:56:12 I go to bed, I'm so tired Oct 28 00:56:22 good night to all :) Oct 28 00:56:35 zerojay be careful with the Spanish Inquisition Oct 28 00:56:51 bye BlueGene good look Oct 28 00:56:58 zerojay: Watch out for Antarctic assblasters. Oct 28 00:58:08 lopz tu sabes lo que es un assblaster?? Oct 28 00:58:14 lol Oct 28 00:58:19 zerojay what is an assblaster?? Oct 28 00:58:43 BlueGene, no, que es ? Oct 28 00:59:05 you'll get to know those soon enough. Oct 28 00:59:07 creo que algo malo, no se xq me da Oct 28 00:59:10 Alright! Oct 28 00:59:12 I sold my n770 and mustered up the cash for an n800 Oct 28 00:59:13 BlueGene: Just kidding around. It's nothing, man. Sleep well. Oct 28 00:59:15 Now the big question... Oct 28 00:59:17 Do I buy it?! Oct 28 00:59:51 sixpence: why not an n810? Oct 28 01:00:07 rafl: I dunno maybe a TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR DIFFERENCE?! Oct 28 01:00:27 zerojay I think it's something bad Oct 28 01:00:54 Buy.com is under $220 Oct 28 01:00:58 sixpence: i wouldn't know. i have an n800 and i'm quite happy with it. Oct 28 01:01:01 BlueGene: It was just a stupid joke.. nothing meant against you whatsoever. Just another random two words. Oct 28 01:01:07 Well. Oct 28 01:01:16 xD Oct 28 01:01:26 Looking at the n810 and n800 side by side. What's the main difference? GPS? I don't own a car. Youtube works on both. Oct 28 01:01:29 Both have a camera.. Oct 28 01:01:35 I don't really like the slider keyboard anyway.. Oct 28 01:01:40 the screen Oct 28 01:01:45 do you walk around in the sun Oct 28 01:01:52 i.e. do you live somewhere outside of finland? Oct 28 01:01:53 the n810 is smaller too from the pics Oct 28 01:01:57 timely_changelog: Nah. Oct 28 01:02:02 I live in Ontario Oct 28 01:02:05 Plus Oct 28 01:02:08 it's slightly smaller Oct 28 01:02:10 I won't be taking it outside in the Sun. Oct 28 01:02:15 and heavier. Oct 28 01:02:17 but you can close your window's bath, no sun then Oct 28 01:02:20 because they moved the menu/humb keys into the keyboard Oct 28 01:02:35 that's actually fairly annoying ime Oct 28 01:02:36 can I install debian testing packages inside maemo gregale? Oct 28 01:02:44 since i really do use the menu key Oct 28 01:02:45 uno que se va pra la cama Oct 28 01:02:52 * timely_changelog can live w/o the other keys Oct 28 01:02:52 rene4jazz creo q tienes algo en el wiki de maemo Oct 28 01:03:04 ale, un besin Oct 28 01:03:10 zerojay night :) Oct 28 01:03:12 anyway, if you don't need the screen or the keyboard, get the n800 Oct 28 01:03:20 ok, lo voy a buscar Oct 28 01:03:27 lopz nos vemos.... Oct 28 01:03:30 and flash w/ itos2008 when it arrives Oct 28 01:03:34 adiós BlueGene Oct 28 01:03:42 isn't the nseries intended to be used,in baths only anyway? Oct 28 01:03:45 hi doublce Oct 28 01:03:45 BlueGene, me dejaste con la n810 xD Oct 28 01:03:47 blah Oct 28 01:03:50 hi timely_changelog Oct 28 01:03:55 jodete xD Oct 28 01:03:56 * timely_changelog should sleep instead of typing in the dark Oct 28 01:04:00 hehe Oct 28 01:04:03 q yo no tengo ni una ni otra Oct 28 01:04:08 tonight i hope to finish this changelog Oct 28 01:04:14 it's haunted me for over a week Oct 28 01:04:27 i think i've decided to move all the negatives into bugs though :) Oct 28 01:04:35 much better than in a changelog Oct 28 01:04:41 oh Oct 28 01:04:48 bye bye.... Oct 28 01:04:50 doublec: fwiw, there's a sardine xref up Oct 28 01:04:50 BlueGene, pero yo ahora la quiero pues Oct 28 01:05:16 timely_changelog: The weird first attempt at scrolling bug brings you back to the top of the page is fixed? Oct 28 01:06:06 zerojay: i believe we properly resolve bugs in bugs.maemo when we fix them Oct 28 01:06:16 so if you were a good boy and filed it :) Oct 28 01:06:23 .. you wouldn't have to ask me :) Oct 28 01:06:29 how much traffic do the -users and -devel lists have? Oct 28 01:06:57 enough that i refuse to subscribe to either :) Oct 28 01:07:09 doublec: of course, browser is http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/ Oct 28 01:07:10 I'll look.. but there's a lot of bugs that are actually fixed that don't get marked as fixed in Bugzilla or not until much later. Oct 28 01:07:17 so you have both :) Oct 28 01:07:19 timely_changelog: what are you changelogging for? Oct 28 01:07:36 rafl: microb of course Oct 28 01:08:04 zerojay: if you want to look through my latest incomplete draft... Oct 28 01:08:13 timely_changelog: Sure. Oct 28 01:08:31 timely_changelog: where from should i know? usung maemo for just a few days now.. Oct 28 01:09:26 _monkey timely? Oct 28 01:09:26 <_Monkey> timely_changelog: i don't know Oct 28 01:09:36 _monkey timeless? Oct 28 01:09:36 <_Monkey> bugger all, i dunno, timely_changelog Oct 28 01:09:44 * timely_changelog sighs Oct 28 01:09:45 useless bot Oct 28 01:09:50 lol Oct 28 01:09:58 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/4/ Oct 28 01:10:04 is the beta changelog for reference Oct 28 01:10:15 he changelog is a delta agains the release there Oct 28 01:10:27 and as you can see, my 't' key does't really work Oct 28 01:10:40 so if you see 'wo' i's probably a typo for 2 Oct 28 01:11:13 he stuff in
 isn' done yet
Oct 28 01:11:16 * rafl likes the name
Oct 28 01:11:45  which name?
Oct 28 01:11:47  Looks like a good list to me.
Oct 28 01:12:07  BlueGene: do you have the maemo wiki link?, I search for it, and did not find anything about installing debian packages
Oct 28 01:12:14  although ~8mb aren't too micro.
Oct 28 01:12:24  timely_changelog: microb.
Oct 28 01:12:25 <_Monkey> microb is the nokia sponsored gtk2-cairo hack of gecko for use by /usr/bin/browser via eal on n800 (4.2007)
Oct 28 01:13:00  _Monkey--
Oct 28 01:13:01 <_Monkey> rafl: i'm not following you...
Oct 28 01:13:19  thought so
Oct 28 01:14:07  _monkey: _monkey-- is  ~nobody likes me, everybody hates me, ...~
Oct 28 01:14:11  _monkey--
Oct 28 01:14:12 <_Monkey> timely_changelog: what?
Oct 28 01:14:15 * rafl gives it a try
Oct 28 01:14:16  bah
Oct 28 01:14:53  _Monkey-- # again
Oct 28 01:14:54 <_Monkey> rafl: i'm not following you...
Oct 28 01:18:01 * rafl wants his urxvt on maemo
Oct 28 01:30:58  dammit.. this n800 is too slow to play my favourite video podcast :-/
Oct 28 01:31:32  How is youtube on the n800?
Oct 28 01:33:08  i'll give it a try.
Oct 28 01:35:23  Works well enough for me usually.. just slightly lower framerate.. probably will be better in IT2008 though with the bump up in speed.
Oct 28 01:35:30  not all that good
Oct 28 01:36:06  thoughtfix showed youtube on the N810 - it was better
Oct 28 01:36:35  but a youtube frontend that downloads and launches mplayer will always be smooth
Oct 28 01:37:01  zerojay: hows the os involved in youtube speed? better flash plugin? faster browser? less overall overhead?
Oct 28 01:37:28  rafl: "os" is sorta a useless term
Oct 28 01:37:44  between ios2007 and itos2008, the clock speed changed
Oct 28 01:37:44  timely_changelog: i agree
Oct 28 01:37:53  in 2007 i was always fixed at less than max
Oct 28 01:37:54  rafl: The N800 is underclocked to 330mhz.. and supposedly will be allowed to run fullspeed in IT2008 because of improved power management.
Oct 28 01:38:07  in 2008, it's variable, and will change dynamically, up to full speed
Oct 28 01:38:08  400mhz, I believe.
Oct 28 01:38:14  i see
Oct 28 01:38:15  yes
Oct 28 01:38:24  that sounds good
Oct 28 01:38:31  Same thing Sony did with the PSP.
Oct 28 01:38:39  well, it really depends
Oct 28 01:38:52  why isn't it available for the n800 already?
Oct 28 01:39:12  hey're still rying to pick the final flash image for the release
Oct 28 01:39:14  Because it's probably in the final stages of testing/approval.
Oct 28 01:39:17  GeneralAntilles: your post on N900 features should be gospel :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=87569&postcount=6
Oct 28 01:39:19  thought it would be shipped on the n810 already
Oct 28 01:39:26  my mailbox lists 2 official final images for itos2008
Oct 28 01:39:31  rafl: It will be.
Oct 28 01:39:38  i see
Oct 28 01:39:38  there's supposed o be only one 
Oct 28 01:39:42  Ha, thanks, pupnik. :)
Oct 28 01:39:49  please don't ask me how they managed to do hat
Oct 28 01:40:00  or when they expect to finalize it
Oct 28 01:40:13  i'm pretty sure they're overdue :)
Oct 28 01:40:38  fwiw, browser team actually does care, but not because there are browser bugs we could get fixed (we can't)
Oct 28 01:40:47  and not between the two images in question (They don't help us)
Oct 28 01:40:58  but because there are bugs in media player that we wan fixed
Oct 28 01:41:05  Good.
Oct 28 01:41:08  (for which fixes seem in hand, but not yet in candidate images)
Oct 28 01:41:15  which means i really don't care
Oct 28 01:41:17  I know I saw four of my media player bugs fixed a few days ago.
Oct 28 01:41:31  wow
Oct 28 01:41:49  A nice surprise to wake up to.
Oct 28 01:42:24  zerojay: speaking of which
Oct 28 01:42:46  if you could help out by setting targetmilestones to 4.0 (or whichever makes sense) on FIXED bugs, that'd be great :)
Oct 28 01:43:28 * rafl goes to bed
Oct 28 01:43:45  timely_changelog: Sure, but I don't think I have the ability to do so. Let me check.
Oct 28 01:44:53  Ah, indeed I do.
Oct 28 01:45:08  timely_changelog: Change it to 4.0 on newly fixed bugs then?
Oct 28 01:45:08 <_Monkey> zerojay: that doesn't look right
Oct 28 01:45:12  The four I mentioned?
Oct 28 01:45:14  yes
Oct 28 01:45:37  as long as they indicae it'll be fixed for 2008 and not some service release
Oct 28 01:46:00  Okay.
Oct 28 02:06:31  Hm.  The N800's not too hot on the youtube videos.  :<
Oct 28 02:07:46  the power of our thumbs will compel you
Oct 28 02:08:04  Thumbs?
Oct 28 02:08:28  Ha
Oct 28 02:08:43  (buttons for both thumbs)
Oct 28 02:09:20  Rask330: i think there are media players for the tablet that download vids then play them in mplayer
Oct 28 02:09:42  Hm.  Can you link me? :o
Oct 28 02:09:55  i forgot - is it ukmp/
Oct 28 02:10:14  It's not UKMP, but it's from the same people/person.
Oct 28 02:11:18  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk GeneralAntilles
Oct 28 02:11:28  thumb want
Oct 28 02:11:35  Yeah, just saw that on ITT.
Oct 28 02:11:38  looks cool.
Oct 28 02:11:57  thumb *will* get
Oct 28 02:12:01  I think it's probably a little big to be realistically put into an IT.
Oct 28 02:12:28  there are smaller versions too
Oct 28 02:12:33  but that's the basic idea
Oct 28 02:12:42  Make for a cool scrolling system.
Oct 28 02:13:01  Hehe, IT = new N-Gage
Oct 28 02:13:04  I like the idea.
Oct 28 02:13:54  i'm betting it won't happen though.  so the other option is the craigulator, and putting pda-apps on it
Oct 28 02:15:07  craigulator will probably get openembedded.  Will have all the controls i want, and be omap 3430 + GL
Oct 28 02:16:19  the tablets will probably not want to go with buttons on both sides, for marketing/image reasons
Oct 28 02:16:45  Which is stupid
Oct 28 02:16:47  and too bad
Oct 28 02:16:53  i dunno...
Oct 28 02:17:14  i can imagine a lot of people with money, who won't like a device with buttons for both thumbs
Oct 28 02:17:23  I buy devices for what they do and how functional they are, not for image. :\
Oct 28 02:19:06  buttons for both thumbs . . . makes me think of thumbboards and laugh.
Oct 28 02:22:58  Well at least nokia did a great thing and gave us the N810 - a different hardware layout for the N800
Oct 28 02:28:52  Netsplit!
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