**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 29 02:59:56 2007 Oct 29 03:42:56 b u r p ! Oct 29 03:43:08 :) Oct 29 03:51:58 why is it that i don't get to watch youtube videos anymore? i'm promped to install flash again. :( Oct 29 03:54:25 * pupnik_ loves bash Oct 29 03:54:42 my rena script for e.g: rena \^- "" \-* Oct 29 03:54:52 removes leading "-" from all filenames in directory Oct 29 03:57:22 duno maybe they change formats Oct 29 03:59:39 i think that may be the case, UKTUBE fails, too. Oct 29 03:59:45 that sucks. Oct 29 04:01:58 Odd. Oct 29 04:03:00 Flash just doesn't work, period? Oct 29 04:03:14 unimstalling microb seemed to fix it. Oct 29 04:05:14 Next time, open the application menu, Tools -> Plugins and check that Flash is listed and enabled. Oct 29 04:05:33 it was shown. Oct 29 04:08:11 uktube seems to hang and the resulting file is unplayable be mplayer. Oct 29 04:08:31 * Esworp wonders what he broke. Oct 29 04:42:24 http://www.filesaveas.com/images/psion5mx.jpg still blows me away how good this design is Oct 29 04:43:13 I had one of those. Oct 29 04:44:42 yeah Oct 29 04:45:35 bye Oct 29 04:45:44 They were neat. The keyboards were the best I've ever had in a mobile device of that size. Oct 29 04:45:54 cu Oct 29 04:46:36 I'm hunting for a cheap replacement screen for mine Oct 29 04:46:56 Good luck :/ Oct 29 04:47:01 That's what's gone on mine. Oct 29 04:47:17 just cable? mine has a crack in screen Oct 29 04:47:17 I've got a spare screen for a 3c. Oct 29 04:47:34 No, I used to have a nasty habit of breaking screens :( Oct 29 04:47:56 Revo and 5MX both died through cracked screens. Oct 29 04:50:19 I think I've got a curse when it comes to portable devices :) Oct 29 04:59:45 crap, the commodore pet used a BASIC licensed from... Bill Gates Oct 29 05:58:33 <|R> Anyone know of a very portable headset with mic that has more power than the cheapo nokia? (I couldn't hear anything unless i pushed them with my fingers very hard with the volume at max while outside... :|) Oct 29 06:07:57 <|R> (or a 3 pin to 4pin + mic adapter) Oct 29 06:13:13 i'd hope the bt headset support would work soon Oct 29 06:13:45 <|R> it was supported in OS2008 ? Oct 29 06:13:54 <|R> s/was/is/ Oct 29 06:13:55 |R meant: it is supported in OS2008 ? Oct 29 06:14:13 <|R> ... and if it is, i need all my apps to be ported too ;) Oct 29 06:14:21 <|R> and then find a headset... Oct 29 06:18:17 oh there was some preliminary thing in os2007 that would only work one way Oct 29 06:18:31 no idea what's the current status :-/ Oct 29 06:18:45 <|R> i heard it is now included... i hope it's true :) Oct 29 06:18:56 <|R> that would make the n8x0 a killer VoIP phone :) Oct 29 06:23:19 crap, the commodore pet used a BASIC licensed from... Bill Gates <- Why crap? X) Oct 29 06:23:28 Most compies of the day did that. Oct 29 06:23:42 For some reason, no one else knew how to write BASIC interpreters but MS. Oct 29 06:23:48 I don't know why... Oct 29 06:25:04 yeah my favourite computer back in the days, the MSX, had MS software too, seems even then they had some kind of monopoly :/ Oct 29 06:25:18 Because M$ was chosen by IBM. If it is good enough for IBM, it is good enough for us. That is my theory at any rate... Oct 29 06:27:51 then again, back in the time software was written specifically to perform well on that kind of hardware, so it wasn't the monster of their today OS's yet :) Oct 29 06:55:55 hi all, can anybody tell me how to add a repositry so i can get the aplication loader to load the dependicies? Oct 29 06:58:53 <|R> tools -> application manager? Oct 29 06:59:59 |R, when i do that i get unmet dependencies? Oct 29 07:01:06 Im trying to add gnumeric and get missing libxau0 Oct 29 07:02:00 <|R> uhm... if you do a search for libxau0 can you find the package for the n800 somewhere? Oct 29 07:02:23 does karoliina do irc? Oct 29 07:07:51 rafl, occasionally seen here, not very often Oct 29 07:11:08 i see Oct 29 07:11:19 also sb-- # quilt without makefile glue Oct 29 07:14:24 |R i can find the package but how do i install it? Oct 29 07:16:41 <|R> ffoegboy: you could always do it by hand in an x-terminal Oct 29 07:16:49 <|R> dpkg -i package_name.deb Oct 29 07:20:32 |R do i use apt-get libxau0? Oct 29 07:21:45 <|R> well, if apt-get works, application manager should have worked Oct 29 07:22:08 <|R> (at least i think... i did most install by hand though ;) Oct 29 07:24:04 what graphics hardware does the n800 have and what kind of output driver does it use? I wonder if one would be able to get some slow gl rendering using mesa. Oct 29 07:24:50 someone built mesa for it, and no - forget it Oct 29 07:25:24 there are software engines that run fast and are open source Oct 29 07:25:36 quake 1, quake 2, descent (d2x), and the duke nukem engine Oct 29 07:26:31 too bad.. no libclutter then :-( Oct 29 07:27:39 neostrider has also written a 3d engine from the ground up for maemo - see the angstron project on garage Oct 29 07:27:47 aye Oct 29 07:28:20 for pocket GL + linux, it's either N900 or Craiginator in 2008 Oct 29 07:29:33 neither is a sure bet tho Oct 29 07:31:04 but just for a benchmark reference, there's a Quake 3 arena running at 25 fps on the Dell axim with 624mhz xscale and Powervr mbx Oct 29 07:31:12 @ 640x480 Oct 29 07:32:05 pupnik: trunk/Toolkit in angstron scm, right? Oct 29 07:32:15 i really don't want opengl performance Oct 29 07:32:39 i just wanted to build nice uis with some basic aimations and bling bling Oct 29 07:33:14 i haven't played with angstrom Oct 29 07:33:50 from the pictures, OS2008 does alpha compositing - might be interesting to see how when it comes out Oct 29 07:35:08 pupnik: hildon-desktop etc sources are out already Oct 29 07:35:08 uh.. angstron has lots of comments, none of them in a language I understand. Oct 29 08:09:34 pupnik, http://www.vincent3d.com/ Oct 29 08:23:27 http://www.futuremark.com/images/products/3dmarkmobile/3dmarkmobilees20/3dmarkmobilees20_shot06_big.jpg?m=v powervr SGX can do a fair amount of polygons Oct 29 08:25:54 futuremark measured OpenGl ES1.1 system performance on TI's OMAP2420 processor exceeds 37 frames per second on Game Test 1 for both Operating Systems. http://www.futuremark.com/products/3dmarkmobile06/screenshots Oct 29 08:40:25 hello Oct 29 08:40:26 <_Monkey> niihau, hell_home Oct 29 08:40:57 what i can use like osso-xterm in my 4.0 sdk? Oct 29 08:42:34 Morning, all Oct 29 08:43:05 Jaffa, Oct 29 08:44:50 pupnik, Personally I'd be quite happy with fixed-point software rendering at half or quarter res. Oct 29 08:46:01 so, btw, there is normal? - [sbox-SDK_BETA_X86: ~] > maemo-select-menu-location bash: maemo-select-menu-location: command not foun Oct 29 08:46:56 pupnik, And that's still for just 2D game dev. simply because 3D animation tools are significantly easier to work with. Oct 29 08:49:12 morning Oct 29 08:49:13 <_Monkey> aloha Oct 29 08:49:52 Jaffa: I had to add LocalAddr to the HTTP::Daemon constructor in mediaserv. (bogus hostname) Oct 29 08:50:12 I will test it as soon as I figure out why 770-encode-launched mencoder exits with a 0 byte file but no error Oct 29 08:51:34 pixel doublign Oct 29 08:51:36 pixel doubling Oct 29 08:52:05 disq: v0.04 *has* a LocalAddr in the HTTP::Daemon constructor Oct 29 08:52:20 Unless I fscked something up Oct 29 08:52:22 gah. i was using 0.01 Oct 29 08:52:31 had two seperate tarballs in ~ :) Oct 29 08:55:01 meh, people writing HTML email should be.. educated. Oct 29 08:55:15 i still need to figure out what's wrong with mencoder though Oct 29 08:55:36 i get "Forcing output FourCC to 58564944 [DIVX]." and then two newlines and then "Exiting..." Oct 29 08:57:12 hello alll Oct 29 08:57:38 Hi unique311. Oct 29 08:58:11 hey, just learned some good stuff on CA. Oct 29 08:58:22 Good to hear. =) Oct 29 08:58:25 i just got a digital camera. Oct 29 08:58:32 10.1 megapix Oct 29 08:58:51 Sweet, mine doesn't have optical zoom or auto-focus. =/ Oct 29 08:58:52 and they told me it wasn't shit, if you don't have a descent lens it..lol Oct 29 08:58:54 It's quite useless. Oct 29 08:59:07 that sucks.. Oct 29 08:59:16 sciboy, casio? Oct 29 08:59:30 Nah, some obscure taiwan brand. Oct 29 08:59:57 i have optical zoom.. Oct 29 09:00:01 Anyway, I'm installing the 3.1 SDK. Oct 29 09:00:11 cool... Oct 29 09:00:17 how's the game going? Oct 29 09:00:23 I am very happy with my 770 SW from olympus . it's the kind of HARD ware i like Oct 29 09:00:42 unique311, Still working out engine issues, it doesn't seem like Gecko is going to handle it without some trouble. Oct 29 09:00:49 770 SW from olympus? Oct 29 09:01:31 Jeebus, that's a lot of packages. =/ Oct 29 09:02:47 os2008 - chinook? bora - os2007? Oct 29 09:03:22 have to install soon...been screwing around with other stuff.. Oct 29 09:03:45 i install 4.0, but there are no packages for it :-) Oct 29 09:03:46 new record for me..didn't touch my n800 for 3 dayz. Oct 29 09:03:52 * sciboy gasps. Oct 29 09:03:55 Blasphemy! Oct 29 09:03:59 lol Oct 29 09:04:18 I've been chewing through PDF's. Oct 29 09:04:36 been messing with the ipod video..i know...sad Oct 29 09:05:03 i'll probably be all over my n800 once 2008 comes out. Oct 29 09:05:37 Same, I've been holding out from doing anything major until the new OS comes out. Oct 29 09:07:20 notice that the ipod weights the same if not more than the n800. Oct 29 09:07:54 It has a hard drive... Oct 29 09:09:47 Anyway so far I've been quite impressed with the N800. Oct 29 09:10:01 so, what can i install, that i can run in emulator? Some different from hello world app Oct 29 09:10:49 disq: this from 770-encode? GeneralAntilles (IIRC) had a similar problem on Mac OS X for no good or apparent reason. You could try `770-encode -m-v -m-v input output' to increase mencoder's verbosity Oct 29 09:11:48 i think it's mencoder Oct 29 09:11:57 It was mencoder here. Oct 29 09:12:48 recompiling mplayer, installed some mp3 encoders :) Oct 29 09:13:17 also surprised to see debian's (lenny) mplayer package doesn't include mencoder Oct 29 09:13:43 unique311: yes frmo olimpus Oct 29 09:14:16 the name is 770 SW Oct 29 09:20:15 * sciboy tries to trick the sdk installation script into liking his 64-bit system. Oct 29 09:28:17 So far just linux32 and dpkg --force-architecture Oct 29 09:28:51 Not a fan of 32-bit chroots. =P Oct 29 09:30:22 bon dia / good morning Oct 29 09:30:23 vmware <3. Oct 29 09:46:48 morning Oct 29 09:46:48 <_Monkey> aloha Oct 29 09:47:05 hey lardman. how's the framebuffer thingy coming along? Oct 29 09:55:19 does the N810 have enabled 3D acceleration ? Oct 29 09:55:34 No, guardian. Oct 29 09:55:39 No drivers. Oct 29 09:56:22 ok same as N800 then Oct 29 09:56:31 i wonder if the iphone has accelerated opengl Oct 29 09:56:38 I imagine so. Oct 29 09:56:39 It's the same hardware after all. Oct 29 09:59:02 sciboy: put up a post somewhere if you get anywhere. I don't want a 32-bit chroot either, and using VMware when I've already got a perfectly decent Linux system... Oct 29 10:01:30 Jaffa: Just tried playing my TV shows from Video Center. They work there... just not when launching directly from the web browser. Oct 29 10:03:55 Jaffa, So far so good. The usual tricks seem to be working. Oct 29 10:05:52 zerojay: Interesting. Given I only demoed it for Youtube from Video Center to get most done in the shortest amount of time, that'd explain it. Oct 29 10:07:21 zerojay: I've updated the bugs list. I'm not sure it's not a bug in microb, though. Similarly it doesn't like opening the .vcfg files which Opera does. Will need to retest when IT OS 2008 is out. Oct 29 10:07:47 k Oct 29 10:16:06 what is the status of chinook ? Oct 29 10:16:17 i installed the beta sdk but it's lacking packaging Oct 29 10:16:23 and it never updated through apt-get Oct 29 10:16:49 Jaffa, This is my first time doing it though so I'm not sure whether what I've done is right in the first place. Oct 29 10:17:49 stupid Colloquy. Oct 29 10:17:54 guardian: ask maemo-devel Oct 29 10:18:36 yeah i'm searching gmane atm Oct 29 10:25:35 Jaffa, The framework appears to be working although I haven't tried compiling anything yet. Oct 29 10:32:28 guardian, same for me Oct 29 10:34:00 guardian, seems like developers does not switch to new platform, even in maemo.org search tool there are no OS2008 tag Oct 29 10:35:25 So now I have an environment set up. Oct 29 10:35:29 ... =/ Oct 29 10:37:18 well i don't even know if the filtering has been fixed on downloads.maemo.org Oct 29 10:37:28 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1409 no update since august Oct 29 10:37:56 seems migrating to midgard is really far from behind smooth :( Oct 29 10:38:03 being i meant Oct 29 10:38:10 Apparently they have a new to rollout apparently. Oct 29 10:38:27 guardian, so, i am beginner in maemo, i don't know, that search never work correctly( Oct 29 10:38:29 Apparently ^6e100 Oct 29 10:38:40 new version* Oct 29 10:38:51 My brain is fried. Oct 29 10:40:21 Anyway now I have the environment setup do I grab debian armel packages and start building? Oct 29 10:44:22 Oh and is it still recommended to go into "red pill" mode on the n800? Oct 29 10:44:56 I wouldn't bother Oct 29 10:45:04 only activate it if you need something out of there. Oct 29 10:45:27 Mostly it just clutters up the app manager. Oct 29 10:45:49 K. Oct 29 10:47:32 I <3 Spidergoats Oct 29 10:49:19 o_o Oct 29 10:49:24 Spidergoats? Oct 29 10:51:43 google for camel spider <3 Oct 29 10:55:50 * czr thanks suihkulokki for the educational break Oct 29 10:55:56 now I know :-) Oct 29 11:00:15 * sciboy makes a sad face. Oct 29 11:00:23 re Oct 29 11:00:36 Re? Oct 29 11:00:44 really energetic Oct 29 11:01:02 yup :) Oct 29 11:01:46 Hmmm... Oct 29 11:01:54 i need a standard SIP client for my n800 Oct 29 11:02:21 is this: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ ok ? Oct 29 11:02:37 That would be the SIP client Oct 29 11:02:39 minus Gizmo Oct 29 11:03:30 thanks Oct 29 11:08:02 Oh fuck Oct 29 11:08:03 FUCK Oct 29 11:08:06 D= Oct 29 11:08:41 Just ran rm -Rf in my REAL root, not the chroot. Oct 29 11:08:48 * sciboy bashes his head against the desk. Oct 29 11:09:49 I now have a real disconcerting lack of a /bin Oct 29 11:10:10 I miss bash already. ;( Oct 29 11:11:13 Gotta love those moments of epic fail. Oct 29 11:11:16 Ha . . . don't do things like that. :P Oct 29 11:11:47 I need to back up all my stuff while my computer is still running. Cause it won't be booting up again. Oct 29 11:12:04 sciboy, vmware <3 ;-) Oct 29 11:12:10 Damn you Oct 29 11:12:16 >=| Oct 29 11:12:18 =P Oct 29 11:12:44 besides, sometimes sbox installation gets broken very badly and you end up removing a lot of stuff from your real root anyway. vms just provide the extra protection against stupidity :-) Oct 29 11:13:21 czr: sorry for my late reply Oct 29 11:13:25 Noted. Oct 29 11:13:29 czr: not bad, making some progress now Oct 29 11:13:41 lardman, np, cool. Oct 29 11:14:04 I did just post to the list, but my email seems to be very slow today Oct 29 11:14:11 * czr nods Oct 29 11:14:31 somehow the messages are not sent immediately to everyone. there have been close to 4 hour differences in people getting the emails. Oct 29 11:14:35 * czr shrugs as to why Oct 29 11:15:15 GeneralAntilles: thanks for the good comment on my video :) Oct 29 11:16:48 czr: Anyway, fb access works on the 770, not on the n800, but I've established that large memory regions can be shared without running out of TLBs (unless they happen to be named FRAMEBUFFER, in which case I need to do more kernel digging to work out what's causing the problems on the n800) Oct 29 11:17:51 lardman, ah, so it wasn't a TLB problem then? (I did read the emails so far couple of days ago), just the name was "reserved"? :-) Oct 29 11:20:56 * sciboy tries to hunt down his external HD Oct 29 11:26:22 czr: If a memory section is called FRAMEBUFFER it is handled differently, and we still run out of TLBs for some reason. But at least we now know that it's something specific to this case, rather than that we've run out for some other reason Oct 29 11:26:40 * czr nods Oct 29 11:26:59 sounds like some special kludge for some specific case ;-) Oct 29 11:28:54 yep, I need to look through the kernel code and see how much memory it tries to share for the framebuffer - It may be that it allocates less than 0x100000, in which case lots of TLBs would be needed. But it works on the 770... Oct 29 11:30:47 ~lart MS Outlook for being rubbish and not telling me it's having troubles sending emails! Oct 29 11:30:47 * infobot turns MS Outlook into a lifesized tux doll for being rubbish and not telling me it's having troubles sending emails! Oct 29 11:31:03 heh Oct 29 11:31:22 outlook as a tux doll seems a bit radical though. kinky even. Oct 29 11:31:56 not bad enough a punishment imo Oct 29 11:32:15 depends on who you give the doll to Oct 29 11:32:21 * czr suggests sending it to ballmer Oct 29 11:33:27 lardman: does mplayer use FB on N800? Oct 29 11:33:27 * lardman suggests sticking pins in it a la voodoo Oct 29 11:33:37 pupnik: I think so Oct 29 11:35:07 lardman, into ballmer or the doll? Oct 29 11:35:12 lol Oct 29 11:35:24 former would be more enjoyable for me at least. Oct 29 11:39:41 MDK: That's an interesting post about curve rasterization. Does this in any way apply to the N8X0.....? PowerVR, etc.? Or is this all more generic improvements for Cairo? Oct 29 11:40:50 Found it! Oct 29 11:40:59 the answer? Oct 29 11:40:59 <_Monkey> hmmm... the answer is 42. but what is the question Oct 29 11:41:10 perhaps he found the question? Oct 29 11:45:57 Okay downloading the debian installation image and hoping wodim can still burn it. Oct 29 11:49:12 If it does, I'll be out of any real danger since I can still boot (don't have any live cd's around) Oct 29 12:16:55 Nope didn't burn. =/ Oct 29 12:16:58 =( Oct 29 12:17:05 Bye. Oct 29 12:32:36 howdy Oct 29 12:32:36 <_Monkey> bonjour, erstazi Oct 29 12:54:34 hi all Oct 29 13:08:56 http://www.skype.com/intl/en/allfeatures/3skypephone/ Oct 29 13:22:42 * alterego whistles whilst he documents. Oct 29 13:30:35 * Tak dips a ruby in poison Oct 29 13:31:17 :O Oct 29 13:31:43 did I tell you I have a rubygame demo running on the device? Oct 29 13:31:55 Nope, is it cool? :) Oct 29 13:32:40 lol - the demo isn't cool, because it's ~100li of my noob rubygame code Oct 29 13:32:50 Hah Oct 29 13:32:55 http://www.flickr.com/photos/79742524@N00/1760894875/ Oct 29 13:33:49 Well, if the button said "Don't Panic" it might be more useful ;) Oct 29 13:34:02 That's neat though. Is the button just an image? Oct 29 13:34:38 the button itself is an image, and the text is programmatically rendered Oct 29 13:34:49 the rubygame package is only 59k, too Oct 29 13:35:03 Neat. Oct 29 13:35:11 Is that including SDL? Oct 29 13:35:33 no. Oct 29 13:35:55 do you mean SDL itself, or ruby bindings for SDL? Oct 29 13:36:01 Ruby SDL bindings. Oct 29 13:36:14 oh - all you need is rubygame Oct 29 13:36:21 Interesting. Oct 29 13:36:25 What does it use to render? Oct 29 13:36:33 SDL Oct 29 13:36:38 Or is it an SDL binding in it's own right? Oct 29 13:36:43 but you ... yes Oct 29 13:36:55 Oh, that's neat. Oct 29 13:37:25 I was about to send a message to the guy that owns the ruby project on maemo garage. Oct 29 13:37:54 His project is called ruby185. Which really isn't what I want my project called :/ Oct 29 13:40:54 Well, my project isn't called that :) Oct 29 13:41:13 hmm - you can change the "Descriptive Group Name" Oct 29 13:41:57 Sure, but the project name will still be ruby185 which is wrong. Oct 29 13:42:16 maybe it can be sorted out with the admins Oct 29 13:42:18 For instance, The ruby version I'm using is 1.8.6-p110 at the moment. Oct 29 13:42:54 Yes, maybe. Which is why I held off talking to him. I'd like to know more about what could be done in this regard. Oct 29 13:43:03 * Tak nods Oct 29 13:43:38 Because if it can't be renamed then I'd like them to reconsider allowing me to start a new project. Otherwise I'll continue to host everything on my own server. Oct 29 13:44:24 Though, someone said that I don't have to have a garage project to use the extras repository? I'm not really sure how that all works .. Oct 29 13:44:52 That's correct Oct 29 13:45:04 garage projects and the extras repo are separate Oct 29 13:45:40 Right, so what benifits would I get from having a garage project? Obviously the maemo announcements of releases would be nice. Oct 29 13:45:46 * Tak shrugs Oct 29 13:47:37 The garage is a good idea but it's kind of rubbish in some areas. Oct 29 13:47:54 For instance, package searching is _really_ bad :/ Oct 29 13:48:15 actually it seems to be ok on garage, but busted to hell on downloads Oct 29 13:48:31 Oh, maybe I'm getting confused then :) Oct 29 13:49:08 Ideally the downloads section wouldn't exist and everything could be done via the application manager :) Oct 29 13:49:17 yeah Oct 29 13:49:26 Though, it's handy if you're thinking of getting a device and want to know what software is available, Oct 29 13:49:47 if everything was in the extras repo, and the extras repo was enabled at install-time :-) Oct 29 13:51:11 Testing all these widgets is a pain in the ass. Oct 29 13:51:18 It's also very time consuming :. Oct 29 13:52:20 * alterego switches to testing ConIc again. Oct 29 13:52:35 I'm sure Oct 29 13:55:51 I'd also really like to test on real hardware but as 2008 doesn't come out for a while yet I'm stuck guessing that things might work properly ^_^ Oct 29 13:58:41 hehehe Oct 29 14:12:06 Tak, would you be interested in testing the new packages? Oct 29 14:12:45 I'm building for 2008 and 2007 at the moment. Oct 29 14:13:46 sure Oct 29 14:13:55 * Tak 2007HE Oct 29 14:13:56 <_Monkey> 2007HE is really great Oct 29 14:14:13 Yeah, that's fine. Oct 29 14:14:25 I'll let you know when I've compiled and uploaded the packages. Oct 29 14:14:31 cool Oct 29 14:16:45 Oh dear .. Oct 29 14:19:47 I need to reinstall the SDK .. Oct 29 14:24:23 Well, my maemo3 targets .. Oct 29 14:36:42 Hi Oct 29 14:36:51 Aloha Oct 29 14:36:54 * sciboy just finished bootstrapping debian... Oct 29 14:37:01 Nice :) Oct 29 14:37:18 It feels so wierd installing debian without repartitioning. =/ Oct 29 14:37:58 Anyone here familiar with irssi? I want to close a private message window. ("Act") Oct 29 14:38:23 wc? Oct 29 14:38:31 /wc, that is Oct 29 14:38:38 Yeah, thanks. =) Oct 29 14:38:56 Do I need to keep the server window open? Oct 29 14:39:16 inz, you might be able to help me with this. I've getting loads of fakeroot errors after a manual SDK installation of 3.2 or 4.0beta :/ Oct 29 14:39:54 Oh and FYI, it's rather easy to install scratchbox on a debian amd64 system, dispite the use of 32-bit binaries, no need for chroot. Oct 29 14:40:05 I've edited the nokia installer scripts to install to maemo{3,4}-sdk-{arm,i386} targets so I don't have to do a manual install. Oct 29 14:40:25 sciboy, good to know :) Oct 29 14:40:59 You take the maemo-scratchbox-installer script and add "--force-architecture" after dpkg, and execute it under linux32 Oct 29 14:41:10 alterego, dunno, have you tried "sb-conf in -f"? Oct 29 14:41:22 inz, yeah :/ Oct 29 14:41:30 -F ;) Oct 29 14:41:34 yeah Oct 29 14:41:40 I erased my /bin while trying to reconfirm though. Oct 29 14:41:47 Hah Oct 29 14:41:55 Well, hopefully this will work. Oct 29 14:42:09 Yeah, rm -Rf * was in my terminal history when I hit UP and enter. Oct 29 14:42:22 =( Oct 29 14:42:36 You only have to edit 3 lines in the nokia SDK installer scripts to change the target names, and they're right near the top. I'd recommend it to anyone wishing to use multiple targets. Oct 29 14:42:42 Beats manually setting them up. Oct 29 14:43:05 I did it manually after the installer refused to install over itself again. Oct 29 14:43:17 and using rm led to my current predicament. Oct 29 14:43:28 sciboy, just sb-conf remove SDK_ARMEL and SDK_X86 Oct 29 14:43:56 But from everything else I assume that the installation with the notes mentioned above, should work perfectly. Oct 29 14:44:06 Cool. Oct 29 14:44:27 Personally, I may just use that vmware image for my own safety. ;| Oct 29 14:46:14 One sec, want to try closing the server window. Oct 29 14:46:30 Oh never mind, irssi warns that it's immortal. Oct 29 14:47:38 I suppose the internet tablets would make an awesome MMORPG platform. Oct 29 14:48:19 hah - I would *love* to see an nwn client Oct 29 14:48:19 Depends, if it's asynchronis and supports offline use, damn straight it would be! Oct 29 14:48:41 offline use? Oct 29 14:48:54 You cruel person :P Why would you ever be offline with your tablet! Oct 29 14:49:36 Actually I have a rough idea for a mass multiplayer strategy game, but it's been hiding in the "forget about it" pile due to the needed programming being outside the scope of my own skills. Oct 29 14:49:56 alterego: Don't have wifi in my room yet. Oct 29 14:50:03 Oh, that's a shame. Oct 29 14:50:32 Yeah, I'm keeping an eye open for a spare router to fix that though. Oct 29 14:51:06 sciboy: WRT54GL's are inexpensive Oct 29 14:51:10 and you can put linux on them Oct 29 14:51:29 erstazi: Most of the stuff I find on ebay is inexpensive, *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge* Oct 29 14:51:32 haha Oct 29 14:52:12 sciboy: sometimes, but people go crazy over the Nokia tablets, they overpay! I got my Nokia 770 for $129, on ebay it was going for $150 - $200 Oct 29 14:52:12 I don't need any serious, it'll just take the ethernet already in my room and retransmit the signal. Oct 29 14:52:17 anything Oct 29 14:52:17 <_Monkey> anything is possible Oct 29 14:52:38 sciboy: retransmitting the single through adhoc from a pc or laptop? Oct 29 14:52:42 I use to think that, but I've become allergic to pain. Oct 29 14:53:19 haha Oct 29 14:53:40 erstazi: I have a WiFi AP on my door with an ethernet leading to my computer, making the distance that the signal can't. Oct 29 14:54:09 The idea is to take a router, pop it where my computer is, add a cable to the computer itself. Oct 29 14:54:39 I would go with ad-hoc if it wasn't for the nintendo consoles in the house. =/ Oct 29 14:54:59 haha Oct 29 14:56:25 I can't help it, I love playing with my Wii Oct 29 14:56:37 ... You'd think after some point that'd stop sounding so dirty. Oct 29 14:57:29 Right, that seemed to have fixed my installation. Oct 29 14:57:35 I wonder what the problem is. Oct 29 14:57:36 someone's still playing wii? Oct 29 14:58:08 With any luck I might be able to actually start developing applications soon. Oct 29 14:58:27 alterego: I wish you better luck than I had. Oct 29 14:58:35 And maybe some common sense too. Oct 29 14:58:46 sciboy, how do you mean? Oct 29 14:59:05 Don't do rm -Rf * in your root directory. Oct 29 14:59:10 Oh, hahah Oct 29 14:59:19 What on Earth were you doing that as root for? Oct 29 14:59:35 You shouldn't use your root account at all really. Oct 29 14:59:40 Only when you really _need_ too .. Oct 29 14:59:57 I just finished clearing a directory out that required root permissions. Oct 29 15:00:19 Though, I have done that myself quite a while ago. Oct 29 15:00:29 Learned the hardway. Now everything is sudo this and sudo that. Oct 29 15:00:47 I moved on, but I hit enter a little too quickly upon using the command history. Oct 29 15:01:15 Heh, I used to use rm *~ a lot. But sometimes I'd hit enter before I got to the ~ key :( Oct 29 15:01:20 A second was enough for it to take out /bin before I hit CTRL+C Oct 29 15:01:30 Needless to say, now I just leave all the temporary files around the place. Oct 29 15:01:34 svn ignores them anyway. Oct 29 15:01:39 And I use svn a lot ;) Oct 29 15:01:49 Heh, I try to keep everything as normal user. Oct 29 15:02:04 But scratchbox didn't like that. Oct 29 15:03:20 I'm a little deterred from installing it right now. Oct 29 15:03:50 Yeah, I just used the scratchbox debian repo to install it on my machine. Oct 29 15:04:14 After partitioning a /scratchbox partition Oct 29 15:04:50 Anyone else want to try getting the blender game engine running at half-res on software rendering? Apparently it's quite easy to get it running, getting decent speeds in another issue altogether. Oct 29 15:07:08 Ultimately I really want to do some super-low-poly games on it. Oct 29 15:08:44 Someone else says if you're using mesa to use the soft-float flag. Oct 29 15:09:25 why does soft-float mesa perform better than hard-float? Oct 29 15:09:39 lardman, what hard float? Oct 29 15:10:16 lardman: Because kernel-level float emulation is apparently a whole bunch slower. Oct 29 15:10:37 At least that's what I read. Oct 29 15:10:55 oh I see, you're talking about letting the kernel trap the fp instructions Oct 29 15:11:01 of course that will be slow Oct 29 15:11:16 alterego: hardfloat as in hardware floating point on the n800 Oct 29 15:11:31 The n800 doesn't have hardware floating point. Oct 29 15:11:36 yes it does Oct 29 15:11:39 Where? Oct 29 15:11:41 Wha? Oct 29 15:11:45 hardware vfp Oct 29 15:11:52 O_o Oct 29 15:11:56 o_O Oct 29 15:12:14 most fp instructions are in hardware, some are emulated, it's not used in the Nokia images (binary size issues I think) Oct 29 15:13:05 I don't remember seeing any FP hardware in the OMAP2410 .. Oct 29 15:13:28 Well it still stands, if someone can help me get blenderge going I'd be ready to repay it with game dev. for the N800. Oct 29 15:13:30 2420 isn't it? Oct 29 15:13:43 yeah, n800 has hardware vfp Oct 29 15:13:48 lardman, yeah whatever. I didn't see any FP hardware. Oct 29 15:14:20 Nokia use soft-float, but if you compile with the right flags (-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp) you too can use hw fp. Make sure you compile libm again though Oct 29 15:14:39 alterego: I'll find you a link, hang on a tick Oct 29 15:14:49 Cool, thanks. Oct 29 15:16:10 lardman, do you have any info on the vfp available? clocks and such stuff. i.e., when it makes sense to use the vfp and when just leave at the soft fp Oct 29 15:17:09 czr: I don't have anything on actual instruction timings, I do have some benchmark data Oct 29 15:17:35 lardman, hmm. what were you benchmarking? Oct 29 15:18:22 czr: a variety of benchmarks :) http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ Oct 29 15:18:56 so, other than those two flags (and either avoiding libm or rebuilding a private copy), it's really that simple? Oct 29 15:19:17 yep Oct 29 15:19:37 there are some bits on the ml too, e.g.: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/15646?page=last Oct 29 15:21:11 thanks Oct 29 15:21:35 alterego: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1136JF-S.html Oct 29 15:21:55 Nice thanks. Oct 29 15:22:25 http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0211j/index.html might be a better bet, technical manual Oct 29 15:22:38 Impressive! Oct 29 15:23:32 czr: In the url above (people.bath.ac.uk etc.) there's a hardware fp version of libm (static & shared) if you don't want to compile your own (i.e. link in or alter LD_LIBRARY_PATH for your app) Oct 29 15:23:32 "optional floating point coprocessor" Oct 29 15:23:39 Are you _sure_ the N800 has one? Oct 29 15:23:42 yep Oct 29 15:23:45 I'd really appreciate it if someone could get blender going, from the forum thread on the 770 attempt, it apparently compiles against mesa with no edits required. Oct 29 15:24:07 sciboy, have you tried it yourself? Oct 29 15:24:24 IF it's that easy, just do a ./configure make make install yourself. Oct 29 15:24:25 lardman, thanks. mainly thinking about 2d vector graphics wrt the fp stuff Oct 29 15:24:26 alterego: compare the omap2420 processor type to the variant type that ARM say has the vfp unit (then look at the benchmarks ;) ) Oct 29 15:24:31 If it works I'll think about packaging it. Oct 29 15:24:41 lardman, okay :) Oct 29 15:25:01 alterego: I was going to before... my little accident happened, but honestly it'd take someone with a clue barely any time to do it while it'd take me ages since to be honest, I'm useless with anything low-level. Oct 29 15:25:10 C/C++ included. Oct 29 15:25:34 You don't need to know how to program to compile. Oct 29 15:25:43 You said this thread said there were no modifications required. Oct 29 15:26:05 Yep, although they recommended the softfp flag for mesa. Oct 29 15:26:24 Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see it work. I'm just _very_ busy with ruby-maemo Oct 29 15:26:24 lardman, interesting difference between O2 and Os (N800-fp-tests.txt). I thought that x86 was the only crippled CPU that gcc got more out of in Os mode. Oct 29 15:26:50 sciboy, the 770 doesn't have FP so you'd have to use softfloat on it. Oct 29 15:27:13 lardman, damn, the dhrystone stuff looks very promising indeed. thanks man. Oct 29 15:27:54 czr: np Oct 29 15:28:34 I'll brb, need to restart and see if all this bootstrapping business worked out after all. Oct 29 15:28:36 czr: but I'd test rather than take the optimisation flags at face value, I don't know how the optimisation works, but I presume it's tailored to the code Oct 29 15:29:07 alterego: Ultimately though, in order to do decent animation/framerates on it I'd need to get it pixel-doubling. Oct 29 15:29:29 lardman, well, I know how gcc batters the code around for x86 with different flags. let's just say that I was suprised to see that the results are in line with expectations that I have on x86 with the different levels. Oct 29 15:29:48 (that being Os/O2 being the fastest normally) Oct 29 15:29:53 czr: the moon was probably in the right bit of the sky, etc. ;) Oct 29 15:30:01 lardman, tell me about it :-) Oct 29 15:30:23 alterego: And things like the hardware vfp would make a whole lotta difference to the performance. Oct 29 15:30:36 sciboy, definitely, I'd say it's a must. Oct 29 15:30:57 Brb. =) Oct 29 15:30:57 czr: the optimisation flags appear to me to be rather specific about how they speed up certain bits, it would be interesting to look at how/why some optimisations slow things down, but not enough hours in the day Oct 29 15:31:42 lardman, they normally just enable/disable a bunch of other optimization flags Oct 29 15:32:06 are the groupings the same across platforms? presumably not Oct 29 15:32:16 the funny bit is that with each gcc version, you'll need to rerun the benchmarks if you really are trying to find the "ultimateh combination". just not worth it most of the time. Oct 29 15:32:19 mostly yes Oct 29 15:32:27 most of the optimizations are architecture neutral. Oct 29 15:32:43 more to do with how gcc shifts stuff around Oct 29 15:32:53 While we're looking at the ARM site, this is vaguely interesting ;) :) http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0344b/CHDICIAJ.html Oct 29 15:33:25 which indicates that Jazelle needs to be enabled by writing to a coprocessor Oct 29 15:34:31 lardman, any idea on which vfp will be used with gcc? vfp v2? Oct 29 15:35:00 depends on the processor iirc Oct 29 15:35:12 is that right? Or am i thinking of something else? Oct 29 15:35:45 * czr does not know Oct 29 15:35:59 I should probably get a proper arm tech manualset at some point Oct 29 15:36:17 ARMv7-A includes VFPv3 Oct 29 15:36:22 there was a slightly old version (arm5) on the net somewhere Oct 29 15:36:33 and a slightly newer one in Japanese that explains more about Jazelle Oct 29 15:36:45 mmh. not that much into jazelle though. Oct 29 15:37:16 czr: I thought it would be interesting to learn about, but troublesome. Oct 29 15:37:43 yeah. my sentiments exactly Oct 29 15:37:57 I used to write java bytecode (using jasmin to compile into bytecode) many many years ago Oct 29 15:38:11 the whole thing left me feeling dirty and.. dirty. Oct 29 15:38:29 I need to sumarise my findings and give up on it, too much patent/IP troubles to go any further me thinks Oct 29 15:38:35 indeed Oct 29 15:38:43 the arm1136 is vfpv2 Oct 29 15:39:07 hmm. any tech ref on it anywhere? Oct 29 15:39:22 http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0274h/index.html Oct 29 15:40:00 ooh. just the thing :-) thanks. Oct 29 15:40:20 some folks consider using non gcc compilers on linux, particularly on x386 Oct 29 15:40:32 looks like GCC supports VFPv2 with VFPv3 called Neon Oct 29 15:40:57 zoran: what for? Java? Oct 29 15:41:05 tcc for example Oct 29 15:41:18 not saying it is better Oct 29 15:41:33 tcc doesn't support anything but x86 Oct 29 15:41:34 ah, c Oct 29 15:41:37 and probably never will. Oct 29 15:41:57 and the compiler had very different goals anyway. Oct 29 15:42:35 looks correct Oct 29 15:45:16 lardman: "Except for divide and square root operations, the pipelines support single-cycle throughput for all single-precision operations and most double-precision operations. Double-precision multiply and multiply and accumulate operations have a two-cycle throughput. " Oct 29 15:45:34 but that's for normalized data (it was said somewhere else) Oct 29 15:46:13 so reasonably fast, I wonder if timings for the softvfp software implementation are available somewhere? Oct 29 15:46:22 and there's also execution timing chart for that.. Oct 29 15:46:44 the latencies are quite long though. Oct 29 15:47:02 hmmph. Oct 29 15:47:16 there are also some interesting DSP instructions to do operations in parallel Oct 29 15:47:40 (that is instructions called "DSP" but which are on the ARM) Oct 29 15:47:47 yup Oct 29 15:47:55 I think that was infact Neon. Oct 29 15:48:01 at least according to the cortex-8 manual Oct 29 15:48:19 Does anybody know details about the GPS chip used in the N810? Is it a SIRF III chip ? Oct 29 15:48:19 it shares the fp registers with the vfp (similar to mmx on x86) Oct 29 15:48:22 there are some on the 1136 as well though, not sure if they are called Neon or not Oct 29 15:48:29 hmm Oct 29 15:48:50 lardman,czr: some vfp functions that I wrote are at http://webcvs.freedesktop.org/liboil/liboil/liboil/arm/ Oct 29 15:49:58 AD-N770: ah yes, I'd meant to say that you had experience with these instructions, my apologies Oct 29 15:50:10 AD-N770, what did you use to model/measure the latency/throughput? Oct 29 15:51:02 czr: I used liboil features to bench the functions Oct 29 15:51:22 ah ok. no instruction level modelling then? Oct 29 15:51:25 czr: but it was just a weekend experiment Oct 29 15:51:29 * czr nods Oct 29 15:52:09 I couldn't find time to go more in depth on this yet Oct 29 15:53:12 i don't mean to burst in here asking questions but Oct 29 15:53:20 czr: I found oprofile also usefull to bench some other assembly that I wrote Oct 29 15:53:38 is there any way to replace busybox with full utils? Oct 29 15:54:07 AD-N770, sure. I was looking for something more low-level though. Oct 29 15:54:07 tamara: install the utils you want, they will overwrite the busybox symlinks Oct 29 15:54:22 the debs are in the apt archives for bash, bsdutils, etc Oct 29 15:54:55 ok, so just force overwrite and i won't break it? Oct 29 15:55:11 lardman: where are you reading about DSP instructions? Oct 29 15:55:50 This is odd .. Oct 29 15:55:59 AD-N770: on the arm1136 you mean? Oct 29 15:56:26 My setup script finds hildon_sort_dialog_add_sort_key_reversed, but I get a implicit declaration error whilst compiling the source file :/ Oct 29 15:56:40 lardman: about your previous comment Oct 29 15:58:05 AD-N770: can't remember, let me have a look Oct 29 15:58:11 lardman: are you refering to the edsp extension set that was also on the 770? Oct 29 16:00:12 lardman, AD-N770, thanks guys Oct 29 16:00:12 AD-N770: That I don't know, what does edsp do? What I was talking about is the SIMD instructions, i.e.: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/topic/com.arm.doc.ddi0211j/I1000175.html?resultof=%22%73%69%6d%64%22%20 Oct 29 16:02:01 lardman: I think that it refers to arm6 media instructions Oct 29 16:02:24 it may be the same thing then - lots of acronyms for the same things Oct 29 16:03:35 lardman: sample of edsp instructions introduced on arm5e is smultb, see at http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg/trunk/libavcodec/armv4l/simple_idct_armv5te.S?view=markup Oct 29 16:04:33 lardman: sample of arm6 media instruction is smuad at http://svn.mplayerhq.hu/ffmpeg/trunk/libavcodec/armv4l/simple_idct_armv6.S?view=markup Oct 29 16:05:03 thanks, I'll take a look Oct 29 16:07:45 back. i'm in maemo now. Oct 29 16:09:16 can't seem to install grub on my pc Oct 29 16:26:51 I know where you live sciboy! Oct 29 16:27:49 Oh and I'm back. Oct 29 16:28:00 Trying to sort out a grub issue. Oct 29 16:32:09 or read a manual Oct 29 16:35:54 xan, is libglade available somewhere (or will be) for chinook beta? Oct 29 16:40:54 hola Oct 29 16:43:15 lmoura, it should be there AFAIX Oct 29 16:43:17 AFAIK Oct 29 16:52:32 Yay working! Oct 29 16:52:38 xan, both default and extras repositories updated here but no glade, and the comparison table between alpha and beta says it was removed from beta. Oct 29 16:54:21 lmoura, well, then I'm obviously missing something, I'm not involved in the SDK :| Oct 29 16:54:37 xan, ok, thanks anyway :) Oct 29 16:58:18 Any devs out there want to help me out and port a 3d game engine over so I can develop some games for the N800 (and N810)? Oct 29 17:00:12 Brb, just got X working. Oct 29 17:00:16 exit Oct 29 17:01:50 There we go, now I can keep this darn window open. Oct 29 17:03:21 sciboy, I might be able to help you soon. Oct 29 17:03:30 I've almost finished my release of ruby-maemo :) Oct 29 17:03:35 Cool. =D Oct 29 17:04:04 alterego, for what os version and how big it is? Oct 29 17:04:06 I'm sorry about nagging, but this is the only major option I have for cranking out games. =/ Oct 29 17:05:28 bear in mind that there's no hardware 3d acceleration on the n8x0 (due to lack of hardware specs) and the cpu is not a very powerful one for realtime 3d Oct 29 17:05:36 doom runs on a 770/n8x0 Oct 29 17:05:59 I don't know if any more modern 3d game was ever ported Oct 29 17:06:03 zoran, for 2008 and 2007 Oct 29 17:06:29 Just for the record it uses scons, and you probably want to disable a bunch of options before starting, sound isn't too big a concern, I use python libraries to handle that anyway. Oct 29 17:06:35 alterego, gems? Oct 29 17:06:44 zoran, no rubygems. Oct 29 17:07:01 ruby, ruby-gnome2, ruby-hildon, ruby-conic, ruby-libosso Oct 29 17:07:11 sqlite3 and libxml are optional. Oct 29 17:07:16 Oh and SDL. Oct 29 17:07:17 mgedmin, I will be designing games to meet the hardware, if we can get something remotely decent out of the engine. Oct 29 17:07:43 mgedmin, I can get away with a bare minimum of 3 planes (6 tris) on screen and still make a good game. Oct 29 17:07:54 Just as soon as I iron out the creases in my multi target build & packaging script. Oct 29 17:08:32 mgedmin, The more it's capable of, the more I can swap out pseudo 3d with real 3d. Oct 29 17:09:33 I think it's almost done :) Oct 29 17:11:14 zoran, rubygems on an embedded device is murder. Oct 29 17:11:34 Until someone can come up with a fast embedded rubygems client it's not worth using it :/ Oct 29 17:11:58 Admittedly having rubygems on the device would be amazing. Though it obviously can't compile binary extensions. Oct 29 17:12:59 maybe gems on the memory card Oct 29 17:13:15 It's not going to make it any faster :P Oct 29 17:13:24 surely not Oct 29 17:13:33 And without a compiler there's no real point IMO Oct 29 17:13:43 but, it is a matter of proof of the concept Oct 29 17:14:00 If I get the time. I might setup a gem "proxy" app. Oct 29 17:14:19 * sciboy hugs python. Oct 29 17:14:26 some exclusive apps have their purpose for one or few users Oct 29 17:14:28 Which hijacks scratchbox and cross-compiles the extension. Then caches the gems and sends them to the device. Oct 29 17:15:04 alterego, I see perl and python as necessery to my 770 usage Oct 29 17:15:13 Why Perl? Oct 29 17:15:25 I like it at the first place Oct 29 17:15:25 * alterego doesn't like Perl .. Oct 29 17:15:54 alterego, I was actually considering using gecko to develop games, that quickly proved to be much sillier than getting blender working. Oct 29 17:15:55 then my poppy pop3 server look up app is written in perl Oct 29 17:16:13 Ah Oct 29 17:16:38 and in python are written some great masterpieces: getmail for instance Oct 29 17:16:38 If I was completely stuck though, I guess I could get it to work, just with no end to the frustration and testing. Oct 29 17:17:10 sciboy, what kind of facilities do you need in a game engine to stop you whining? Oct 29 17:17:13 :) Oct 29 17:17:33 alterego, Graphical development environment and high-level programming. Oct 29 17:17:37 I still don't see why you don't just pick up pygame & python and hack something. Oct 29 17:17:43 Bah Oct 29 17:18:09 or navigate space ship using interactive prompt Oct 29 17:18:32 Because then I don't get to do what I'm good at, and spend most of my time rewriting the code instead of focusing on actual gameplay. Oct 29 17:18:52 must be on arm? Oct 29 17:19:17 Which, when I could easily just jump into it on multi-platform development completely removes any prospect of me filling in some of the gaming gap on the maemo platform. Oct 29 17:19:52 game making is not so easy and fun as one could think Oct 29 17:20:21 make scenario first and ask people if they like the idea Oct 29 17:20:24 I know that, and having a ready-made game engine to abstract a lot of the tedious stuff makes a world of difference. Oct 29 17:20:32 Heck, it makes _all_ the difference. Oct 29 17:21:14 maybe your game is already written Oct 29 17:21:31 It isn't, otherwise I would be reusing their engine. Oct 29 17:22:01 There are lots of engines out there. Oct 29 17:22:19 Your obsession with blender and graphical environments isn't very helpful. Oct 29 17:22:34 I can rapidly prototype new games in a month if I don't have to wrestle with the code all the time. Oct 29 17:22:36 Not that I think you're obsessed or anything :P Oct 29 17:22:49 A month? Oct 29 17:22:53 Of course I'm obsessed, I love doing this stuff. Oct 29 17:22:56 you could prototype a lot of ideas in a day with any language Oct 29 17:23:07 I could program a game from scratch in a few days. Oct 29 17:23:10 A month, that's full art assets and core gameplay polished. Oct 29 17:23:27 You said prototype :P Oct 29 17:23:30 I do adventures and stuff, the amount of content tends to make it more demanding. =/ Oct 29 17:23:48 what kind of games? Oct 29 17:23:48 That's a prototype to me, playable but lacking any additional features or major polish. Oct 29 17:23:51 yeah tahts in different ballpark Oct 29 17:24:09 adventures are a lot of scripting and etc Oct 29 17:24:29 whereas, doing a clone of an arcade style game can be very fast Oct 29 17:24:29 Bingo, art and scripting are the majority of it, (ignoring story for a bit) Oct 29 17:24:44 there were text adventures Oct 29 17:25:06 or elite with a lot of text Oct 29 17:25:09 Then scripting and story becomes the priority, still takes ages though. Oct 29 17:25:34 Those usually take more than a month, funnily enough graphics allow you to get away with simpler content. Oct 29 17:25:52 no new idea == only sciboy would play that game Oct 29 17:25:56 there should be adventure game engines out there.. by boatloads, though if they're flexible enough for whats in your mind dunno Oct 29 17:26:40 glass, I do action/adventure, faster paced than point'n'click. Oct 29 17:26:58 Although I respect the shit out of the classics in that department. Oct 29 17:27:08 my neighbors play a lot of complicated games including making cities, making wars etc; they are all the same, if I see them from aside Oct 29 17:28:11 Yeah, complicated games aren't my style, I like to bombard them with content rather than complicated mechanics. Oct 29 17:28:29 they _are_ all the same Oct 29 17:28:34 Although again when it comes down to it, it's usually only a novelty or two that sets them apart. Oct 29 17:28:36 * glass has an idea for a tetris variation Oct 29 17:28:45 another color, another name, the same game Oct 29 17:31:45 well, what they differ usually is in balances Oct 29 17:32:47 The core gameplay is the same, the overlying stuff is what changes. Oct 29 17:33:48 not related to maemo. does someone use nokia 6233? Oct 29 17:34:08 Brb, restart. Oct 29 17:39:13 Back Oct 29 17:39:45 * alterego watches as his beautiful build system does it's magick. Oct 29 17:39:53 I'm so proud I could weep. Oct 29 17:40:14 Oh.. what did you do? Oct 29 17:40:38 does anyone know of an active project to port php-gtk to maemo? Oct 29 17:40:42 alterego, you sould write a manual etc Oct 29 17:41:00 Heh, not that special really. I just wrote a script that will automatically build and package my packages for multiple targets. (armel,i386 for chinook and bora) Oct 29 17:41:01 robl^, People use PHP-GTK? Oct 29 17:41:16 O_O Oct 29 17:41:16 Awesome! Oct 29 17:41:19 People use PHP? Oct 29 17:41:20 no 2006? Oct 29 17:41:31 sciboy: yup! and now that php-gtk2 is in beta, I can see more people using it Oct 29 17:41:36 zoran, I've stopped support for 2006 Oct 29 17:41:40 k Oct 29 17:41:43 Packages for it are stull available. Oct 29 17:42:04 site? Oct 29 17:42:05 <_Monkey> i guess site is sending the content in gzip TE Oct 29 17:42:05 2006 is totally obselete. Oct 29 17:42:07 If someone asks me to do it I will. I just don't see the point. I've not even installed a 2 series SDK in my scratchbox. Oct 29 17:42:17 obsolete* Oct 29 17:42:33 2006 is os for 770, as I see it Oct 29 17:42:41 Update to 2007HE Oct 29 17:42:53 k, no much graph apps for me Oct 29 17:43:49 770 is officially obsolete. Oct 29 17:43:57 2006 is obsolete by association. Oct 29 17:44:22 If people used it on the new devices it might be a different matter though. Oct 29 17:44:24 770 is great dude Oct 29 17:44:33 and 2007 will soon be obsolete. 2008 is the future! ;-) Oct 29 17:45:01 robl^, It'll take some months but yeah. =P Oct 29 17:45:04 Yeah, I can't see me building for 2007 much longer. Oct 29 17:45:15 The only reason I am is so I can test on the device. Oct 29 17:45:39 I spent most of the afternoon getting my OS2008 extensions to compile on OS2007 :/ Oct 29 17:45:51 recall ipaq people supporting 5-8 years old hardware? Oct 29 17:46:03 zoran, this isn't hardware. Oct 29 17:46:13 linux on ipaq Oct 29 17:46:14 This is software. If you're not going to update that's your problem. Oct 29 17:46:27 As far as I could tell, the 770 was a test platform to spark development. Oct 29 17:46:41 has 2008 been released for the n800 yet? Oct 29 17:46:45 It was bound to be dropped rather quickly. Oct 29 17:46:49 robl^, no. Oct 29 17:47:33 zoran, do you only have a 770? Oct 29 17:47:36 i worry they will drop the 810 too Oct 29 17:47:48 when do they go on sale anyway? Oct 29 17:47:50 Of course they will. Oct 29 17:47:56 Mid Nov. Oct 29 17:48:07 Daniellion, They will, not for the next couple of years though. Oct 29 17:48:15 alterego, yes Oct 29 17:48:24 zoran, that's a shame. Oct 29 17:48:29 hm Oct 29 17:48:36 How long have you had it? Oct 29 17:48:39 my face is red Oct 29 17:48:46 almost a year Oct 29 17:49:03 Unless there's serious hardware defects, like the "GPS" leaking antimatter into the atmosphere. Oct 29 17:49:05 The 770 is still nice. Oct 29 17:49:15 So you think that the 810 will be around a bit Oct 29 17:49:15 I _really_ liek it Oct 29 17:49:18 Then they'll drop it faster than a hot 770. Oct 29 17:49:29 And with 2008HE being released for it I don't see why people should stop using it. Oct 29 17:49:34 though yeah i keep forgetting they supported the 770 and its been around for years and its still a great device Oct 29 17:49:40 yeah Oct 29 17:49:47 you mean 2007 HE Oct 29 17:49:50 Officially supporting the hardware is not an issue in my problem. Oct 29 17:49:50 not 2008 Oct 29 17:49:58 2008 is the 810's right Oct 29 17:49:58 Daniellion, no, I mean 2008HE Oct 29 17:50:05 It will be released. Oct 29 17:50:07 its already being hacked and worked on? Oct 29 17:50:13 The 770's will get the hackers edition of 2008. Oct 29 17:50:17 It's being worked on. Oct 29 17:50:38 Just like I'm sure the N8X0 will have OS2010HE Oct 29 17:50:51 :) Oct 29 17:50:53 haha, I wonder if they'll ramp the 770 cpus up to 250 MHz with os2008 Oct 29 17:51:10 Tak, I look forward to the resulting explosions. Oct 29 17:51:48 the point would be to tweak consumption down Oct 29 17:52:11 i used to overclock the w-mobile devs Oct 29 17:52:16 they got kinda flaky ehehe Oct 29 17:52:18 The LCD chip will be all like "OMG HIS POWER LEVEL IS OVER 5000!" and promptly go white before igniting any liquids whether they be incased in meat or not. Oct 29 17:52:50 no smoke? Oct 29 17:52:59 On that note, I'm most likely delirious with sleep deprivation. Oct 29 17:53:05 No smoke, just steam. Oct 29 17:53:22 I recall the smoke my desktop made some time ago Oct 29 17:53:29 Super-heated-steam, that melts anything upon contact. Oct 29 17:56:30 * zoran gone to talk to dragons about fire usage Oct 29 17:56:49 * sciboy passes his stash of pot to zoran. Oct 29 17:56:58 In case you need to sedate them. Oct 29 18:02:49 w00t Oct 29 18:03:00 ruby1.8-maemo is packaged :) Oct 29 18:03:06 Congrats! Oct 29 18:03:53 anybody know where the keyboard layout files are stored? Oct 29 18:07:47 aha, found in /usr/share/keyboards Oct 29 18:08:22 <_gpg_> hello Oct 29 18:08:22 <_Monkey> niihau, _gpg_ Oct 29 18:08:40 <_gpg_> _Monkey niihau Oct 29 18:08:40 <_Monkey> salut, _gpg_ Oct 29 18:08:46 <_gpg_> _Monkey salut ! Oct 29 18:08:46 <_Monkey> _gpg_: huh? Oct 29 18:08:50 <_gpg_> omg Oct 29 18:09:07 <_gpg_> i'm having a hard day lol Oct 29 18:10:14 oawww Oct 29 18:10:30 <_gpg_> talking to a bot :) Oct 29 18:10:54 <_gpg_> i've a question more related to the use of linux in embedded system, hope i can have some suggestion Oct 29 18:10:55 Yeah.. thats not healthy Oct 29 18:10:56 ;) Oct 29 18:11:58 <_gpg_> i finally got agrement from my boss to port our vxworks roject to linux (great, yet annother telematic box running linux) Oct 29 18:13:03 <_gpg_> i know maemo, gmae poject and would like to know if some of you know other projects like them Oct 29 18:13:09 http://cgi.4chan.org/gif/src/1193640881680.gif <- I love this stuff. Oct 29 18:23:44 vx: qtopia is another embedded system running on top of linux Oct 29 18:24:03 also take a look at openmoko. Oct 29 18:24:09 and openembedded Oct 29 18:29:05 Jiten ty Oct 29 18:29:26 GPE? Oct 29 18:29:26 <_Monkey> rumour has it GPE is an environment kind of like Maemo Oct 29 18:29:47 No wayz Oct 29 18:33:03 hmm - is there a sanctioned way of obtaining the keyboard layouts in xml format? Oct 29 18:37:03 <_|Nix|_> Can someone please help me set up the repo for Pidgin? I can't get the binary-all portion to work. Oct 29 18:37:14 <_|Nix|_> http://idefix.go-nix.ca/nix/dists Oct 29 18:37:47 <_|Nix|_> I have the "all" architecture listed in the Release file, yet, when I do an apt-get update, it doesn't seem to pick it up. Oct 29 18:39:43 new word(bird) Oct 29 18:40:34 * alterego contemplates scheme-maemo Oct 29 18:40:46 I wouldn't really use it for anything though. Oct 29 18:40:51 if(:bird == word) then puts('Everybody knows that the bird is the word!'); end Oct 29 18:40:53 Ruby maemo would be what I'd use for development. Oct 29 18:41:09 :) Oct 29 18:41:39 puts "Everybody knows that there are no bird words!" unless :bird == word Oct 29 18:43:50 where was a link to the os2008he? i can only google ref. 2007he Oct 29 18:44:15 Daniellion, OS2008 isn't released yet. Oct 29 18:45:32 Nods Oct 29 18:45:33 I know Oct 29 18:45:50 I jsut thoght when i walked in someone referenced a hacker ed. of 2008 .. which i thought odd Oct 29 18:46:26 I said that there will be a 2008HE Oct 29 18:46:33 I never said it was already out. Oct 29 18:49:14 Ohhh i see ;) Oct 29 18:50:43 did nokia announce a 2008he? Oct 29 18:51:55 somebody official announced it Oct 29 18:51:57 maybe quim Oct 29 18:52:59 Well, psuedo official. Oct 29 18:53:11 I don't there there's anything official with regards to the 770 anymore ;) Oct 29 19:01:43 aha - http://idoru.metadreams.net/~kimju/src/maemo/decode_vkb/ Oct 29 19:03:22 Groovy. Oct 29 19:31:25 * sciboy sighs. Oct 29 19:31:34 wanna really sigh? Oct 29 19:31:35 My wacom tablet isn't going to work. =/ Oct 29 19:31:47 try turning off images in your web browser and visiting nokia.com Oct 29 20:12:46 hi Oct 29 20:13:01 is there a channel for general hw questions about n800? Oct 29 20:13:41 This is the only internet related IRC channel I know about. Oct 29 20:13:52 You might as well ask here :) Oct 29 20:14:01 ok :) Oct 29 20:14:16 s/internet/internet tablet/ Oct 29 20:14:23 so I just got my n800 and there are two strange things about it: Oct 29 20:14:44 the display's color is "cold", colder than 770 was Oct 29 20:14:45 1) it's smaller than you thought. 2) It's heavier. Oct 29 20:15:02 I'm not sure what you mean by "colder". Oct 29 20:15:21 and the wifi produces huge packet losses... Oct 29 20:15:26 Woah, Oct 29 20:15:31 That that's interesting. Oct 29 20:15:42 I think you should probably get it looked at. Oct 29 20:15:51 Unless the packet loss is not related to the N800 Oct 29 20:16:08 could be the WAP Oct 29 20:16:14 cold: you know you can adjust your monitor's colour profile, there are cold and warm profiles.. so basically blue and red Oct 29 20:16:20 How are you testing for packet loss? Oct 29 20:16:24 http://www.bell.ca/shop/en_CA_AB/Sme.Sol.Wireless.Hardware.Novatel.U720.page would something like this work with the N8x0 ? With a power injector hack, maybe using a http://www.bixnet.com/5v7libapa.html battery like this? Oct 29 20:16:30 szucsati: hey Oct 29 20:16:39 i'm pinging it from my desktop Oct 29 20:16:52 szucsati: how much is the N800 in Hungary now? and, is there info when/how much N810 will be ? Oct 29 20:17:24 szucsati: have you tried more than one access point? what access point do you have? Oct 29 20:17:25 because I felt the wifi working bad (for example the application manager's downloads hangs for a while than continues) Oct 29 20:18:08 chx, isn't that just a wireless card? Oct 29 20:18:33 chx: there's no 770/n800/n810 in the Hungarian market.. :( I bought my 770 in England and ordered my N800 from USA Oct 29 20:18:50 szucsati: that's fien with me Oct 29 20:18:56 alterego: It's a USB modem Oct 29 20:19:43 suihkulokki: I tried it in a public wlan, and I felt the same when I was browsing, sometimes it didn't work and worked again, so I gues there were some packet losses Oct 29 20:20:08 my ap is a Fonera router, worked fine with the 770 Oct 29 20:21:46 robl^: how do you mean "could be the WAP"? does the n800 have problems with wap encoding? Oct 29 20:22:36 Have you tried reflashing it? Oct 29 20:22:41 szucsati: I had a wireless access point that was starting to act up. it began dropping packets Oct 29 20:22:42 Well .. Flashing it .. Oct 29 20:23:19 szucsati: fonera has problems with wlan power managment (search their forums) Oct 29 20:23:20 it came with the previous firmware, I flashed the latest but both did the same Oct 29 20:24:03 Sounds like you've got a bad one. Oct 29 20:26:15 hi Oct 29 20:29:56 strange, there's no ping from my n800, but can use the browser.. Oct 29 20:30:21 Are you sure you're on the same network? Oct 29 20:30:48 I tried pinging my N800 once, didn't get anything then released I'd been remotely logged into one of my servers the whole time ^_^ Oct 29 20:31:33 :) Oct 29 20:32:09 oh cool, it was because of i was on the fonera's public signal maybe icmp packets are blocked there Oct 29 20:32:42 now i'm pinging my main router (wrt54gl), seems to be fine now.. Oct 29 20:33:06 can I format my memory card to fat32? and the swap will work then? Oct 29 20:33:15 akai---, yes Oct 29 20:33:31 akai---: yes and you should I think, better than fat16 Oct 29 20:34:29 hmm is using gparted from a pc a wise idea when nokia works as the card reader? Oct 29 20:34:40 my regular reader doesn't mount this card -_- Oct 29 20:34:45 akai---, that's how I did all my partioning. Oct 29 20:35:04 s/partioning/partitioning/ Oct 29 20:35:04 alterego meant: akai---, that's how I did all my partitioning. Oct 29 20:35:05 has anyone ever tried using tversity to provide media (video) to a n800? Oct 29 20:36:29 hm.. strange, the ping seems to be fine now Oct 29 20:36:46 There probably isn't anything wrong. Oct 29 20:36:58 let's see if I can download a bigger file Oct 29 20:37:21 As far as the "cold" screen. I think maybe the backlight on the N800 is more white/blue than the 770's. Oct 29 20:37:30 The 770 has some weird film over it too. Oct 29 20:37:48 yes, but sometimes webpages just doesn't work, but they do on my pc at the same time Oct 29 20:38:02 Exactly the same time? Oct 29 20:38:31 and sometimes I can't refresh application lists because after downloadin a 2KB list the app manager hangs.. Oct 29 20:38:37 Well, maybe there's something wrong with the web pages. Oct 29 20:38:54 one of them was maemo.org :) Oct 29 20:39:04 Which is far from perfect :P Oct 29 20:39:38 Well, it may be a hardware failure. Oct 29 20:39:49 It might also be something wrong with your router. Oct 29 20:40:03 What is the signal strength like? Oct 29 20:40:22 22:23 < suihkulokki> szucsati: fonera has problems with wlan power managment (search their forums) Oct 29 20:40:24 100% the router is 3metres from here, and has a fontenna Oct 29 20:40:37 ...but feel free to continue to ignore me Oct 29 20:40:59 Heh Oct 29 20:41:21 suihkulokki sorry I didn't ignore you :$ already opened their site for searching but didn't answer :$ Oct 29 20:41:34 so what power management..? Oct 29 20:41:38 Hmm .. Maybe I should remove tk .. Oct 29 20:41:49 Pfft, neah. Oct 29 20:42:36 I probably should trim down the library a bit though. Oct 29 20:43:53 szucsati: http://boards.fon.com/viewtopic.php?t=3451&highlight=n800 Oct 29 20:46:27 "You don't see ducks getting on elevators to fly south for the winter." Oct 29 20:47:57 suihkulokki: does this happen with the latest 2007HE? or just with N800+2007? Oct 29 20:48:38 hi Oct 29 20:48:43 hi Oct 29 20:48:47 anyone can help me with scratchbox? Oct 29 20:49:08 i'm alredy on #scratchbox but is a little empty Oct 29 20:49:47 what version scratchbox. did you install from tgz, deb or Vmware image? Oct 29 20:50:01 scratchbox for bora Oct 29 20:50:02 3.2 Oct 29 20:50:06 from tgz Oct 29 20:50:13 im having problems compiling a package Oct 29 20:50:24 sbox-arm-linux-gcc: /usr/lib/libpangoxft-1.0.so: No such file or directory Oct 29 20:50:32 but i'm sure that it exists Oct 29 20:50:50 lrwxrwxrwx 1 pretoria 5407 26 Oct 28 21:54 /usr/lib/libpangoxft-1.0.so -> libpangoxft-1.0.so.0.800.1 Oct 29 20:51:04 szucsati: I think HE still has the old kernel and wlan driver without wlan power managment support Oct 29 20:51:47 hm.. ok.. I had my 770 with HE onlyne for 6,5 hours once :) Oct 29 20:51:57 onlyne > online.. Oct 29 20:56:34 and.. does the N800 need the 52mhz + multiblock write hack or is it just for 770+mmc? Oct 29 21:00:12 hm, now i'm having an application downloading hang, but the pings are fine.. Oct 29 21:00:36 Maybe the problem is somewhere else then. Oct 29 21:00:54 Why don't you do what suihkulokki said Oct 29 21:01:16 can you ping maemo.org now? Oct 29 21:01:31 No Oct 29 21:01:58 wow, great news :) Oct 29 21:02:39 Krinyo says something about the freewlan addon that can help about this power management problem, i'll ask him (i know this guy) about it Oct 29 21:03:04 i mean in the topic that suihkulokki linked Oct 29 21:03:22 re Oct 29 21:04:52 Hazzah, computer is now ready to roll! Oct 29 21:05:11 Oh, need to get the right time set first. =/ Oct 29 21:05:13 suihkulokki: the topic says N800 doesn't work with Fonera anymore - does it mean somebody can't even connect to the router? Oct 29 21:05:13 Cool Oct 29 21:07:18 Woah WTF, daylight savings. Oct 29 21:07:28 * sciboy adjusts _ALL_ his clocks. Oct 29 21:07:40 sciboy: are you late from work? :) Oct 29 21:07:55 Heh Oct 29 21:08:05 Everyone's been complaing about that today. Oct 29 21:08:07 szucsati, ... Well if this was recent, I should've been but no i haven't had any complaints yet. Oct 29 21:08:40 alterego, You releasing that ruby package soon? Oct 29 21:08:49 sciboy, iminently Oct 29 21:08:56 In about 10 minutes :) Oct 29 21:08:58 yesterday we adjusted all the clocks, including dvd, hi-fi etc, today we had a power cut.. Oct 29 21:09:05 Oooh goody. =D Oct 29 21:09:31 Just compiling the last set of packages now. Oct 29 21:09:41 Then I've got to upload them. Oct 29 21:10:01 To garage? Oct 29 21:10:09 No, maemo.rubyx.co.uk Oct 29 21:10:16 K. Oct 29 21:10:28 btw packages: http://tuxrecife.blogspot.com/2007/10/abiword-ready-to-maemo-4x.html Oct 29 21:10:48 I can't wait to use abiword. Oct 29 21:11:02 It'll make documenting more fun. Because I can do it in the pub! Oct 29 21:11:03 * sciboy replies to a debian bug with the fact that an upstream release has had the issue fixed for a couple of months now. Oct 29 21:11:15 You'd think they'd notice, with it being an extremely serious show stopper. =/ Oct 29 21:11:35 Yeah, you'd think ;) Oct 29 21:11:54 Well I don't care either way now, I'm using the upstream version. Oct 29 21:12:00 yes abiword will be a big step :) Oct 29 21:12:26 Who here has a bluetooth keyboard? Oct 29 21:12:39 Not me. Oct 29 21:12:49 sciboy: i will have in a few days (fingers crossed) Oct 29 21:12:54 szucsati, does it go fullscreen? Oct 29 21:13:12 I was half expecting the entire to chime in with "Me!" Oct 29 21:13:19 entire channel* Oct 29 21:13:25 <|R> has anyone seen working nat modules for the latest OS2007? Oct 29 21:13:35 szucsati: abiword? i don't know, haven't tried, i'm waiting for a deb :) Oct 29 21:13:41 * sciboy changes his assumptions accordingly. Oct 29 21:14:02 i mean alterego, not me.. Oct 29 21:14:03 <|R> sciboy : i do Oct 29 21:14:29 Oh, sorry :) Oct 29 21:14:36 I thought you did the port. Oct 29 21:14:37 alterego, I have a lot of love for interpreted languages, there's nothing quite like rewriting functions while the application (aka. game) is still running and seeing the results. Oct 29 21:15:01 sciboy, I think you mean dynamic languages ;) Oct 29 21:15:11 Sure, Ruby is interpreted. But Python isn't. Oct 29 21:15:20 Since when? Oct 29 21:15:29 And Ruby wont be interpreted for much longer as YARV is being released with Ruby2.0 Oct 29 21:16:28 Python gets compiled into bytecode sciboy. Oct 29 21:16:38 It has a VM and everything :P Oct 29 21:16:56 alterego, I swear that still counted as interpreted though. Oct 29 21:17:17 Well, you could call a VM an interpreter. But it isn't really. It's a VM. Oct 29 21:17:28 alterego: nope; wish I could do a porting, i would port extcalc Oct 29 21:19:41 * sciboy sets up a little sync script for his N800.. Oct 29 21:20:02 * alterego builds the last module. Oct 29 21:20:10 The "ruby-maemo" module .. Oct 29 21:20:12 :) Oct 29 21:20:28 This one takes ages though. Oct 29 21:21:29 Bugger I've lost my stylus. Oct 29 21:21:35 Aha Oct 29 21:21:40 here, take mine Oct 29 21:21:43 -----> Oct 29 21:21:48 I had it behind my ear for some reason .. Oct 29 21:23:04 * |R wonders if anyone is using iptables -t nat or -t mangle on the n800... Oct 29 21:24:22 it seems like the whole maemo.org is half dead, it was just bad luck that I thought my beloved n800 is faulty Oct 29 21:24:31 Hahah Oct 29 21:24:37 szucsati, happens to the best of us ;) Oct 29 21:25:07 probably nokia's uploading the 2008OS for n800, that's why the server is slow now ;) Oct 29 21:25:19 I doubt it. Oct 29 21:25:34 They only need to upload it once and you'd think they'd have the bandwidth, and some ;) Oct 29 21:25:42 maemo.org is always slow for me. Oct 29 21:26:13 I can't say I've had too many problems with it. Just the occasional SSL area fault. Oct 29 21:26:18 Gosh Jaiku is such a tease. Oct 29 21:26:43 It's always when you're looking for an invitation you have a hard time getting one. Oct 29 21:28:33 Oh dear, seems that the upstream version is giving me segfaults. Oct 29 21:28:39 =| Oct 29 21:29:03 Hello folks. Anyone here running POSE on the N800? Oct 29 21:33:35 I'm an old die-hard Palm user, and having a working POSE port in the N800 would make migrating to it really irresistible ;-) Oct 29 21:34:26 what is pose ? Oct 29 21:34:34 :) Oct 29 21:34:57 Palm emulator mainly for developers. Oct 29 21:37:42 I have a Palm T|T3 Oct 29 21:37:45 I installed Linux on it. Oct 29 21:38:04 i used to love my palm Oct 29 21:38:10 Mine does nothing now. Oct 29 21:38:22 my m515 (old school) sits in my drawer being unused Oct 29 21:38:28 It's probably completely dead. I stopped using it after I couldn't get BT to work :/ Oct 29 21:38:36 i had infrared Oct 29 21:38:37 that was it :| Oct 29 21:38:42 :) Oct 29 21:38:54 I don't think I could get the IR working either. Oct 29 21:38:59 lol Oct 29 21:38:59 L0c-[N800]: It's a palm emulator, but not just for developers :-) In fact, when my palm IIIxe died an untimely death a few years ago, I brought up POSE on my laptop and restored my Palm backups into it... was able to go on palming while the replacement didn't arrive Oct 29 21:39:01 Though I didn't actually try. Oct 29 21:39:28 POSE on a linux laptop is quite usable, my question is whether that's the case on a N800 Oct 29 21:39:31 i could never get the serial connection working Oct 29 21:39:39 i swear i saw a palm emulator on ITT Oct 29 21:39:57 amr: what's ITT? Oct 29 21:39:57 <_Monkey> ITT is http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums Oct 29 21:40:11 _Monkey: thanks Oct 29 21:40:11 <_Monkey> a2ee: de rien Oct 29 21:41:47 Well, now this is done. I can start to relax a bit more. Oct 29 21:41:53 Maybe release once every couple of weeks Oct 29 21:42:18 i've see a video on youutube with palmos running on n800 Oct 29 21:42:33 I thought that was the newton OS Oct 29 21:42:44 dunno if it was a fake or not Oct 29 21:45:38 if i have a navkit for n800 will I get a full wayfinder licence after installing os2008 for free? Oct 29 21:45:44 this f*cking bt keyboard while i'm cooonnected via bt whiiith my phone ,doess repeat chars every time :( Oct 29 21:46:25 any idea on how to fix ? Oct 29 21:46:35 Loc-[N800]: located the video, it's here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=sPF19gypbGo Oct 29 21:46:46 Loc-[N800]: thanks for the tip Oct 29 21:46:48 L0c-[N800]: i thing n800 doesn't really ready to use keyboards... Oct 29 21:46:48 alterego, Again, congrats. =) Oct 29 21:48:10 if anyone wants a bt keyboard for cheap I found some on ebay.com, Microsoft Elite keyboard for 16.5usd + p&p Oct 29 21:48:19 i hope it will work with my n800 Oct 29 21:48:32 although this is a full size keyboard :( but it's cheap :) Oct 29 21:48:40 The last compilation. Oct 29 21:50:10 szucsati, is it hid ? Oct 29 21:50:42 I hope yes Oct 29 21:50:49 if not I wasted the money Oct 29 21:52:45 the end of biological aging and the cure for cancer? Oct 29 21:52:53 nm sorry Oct 29 21:53:36 pupnik: please add me to your list :-) Oct 29 21:54:22 still working out the bugs Oct 29 21:55:19 hello? Oct 29 21:55:26 hello! Oct 29 21:55:39 Can I ask for help here? Oct 29 21:56:05 yes, these guys seems to be friendly and helpful :) Oct 29 21:56:39 Nice! I'm having problems installing Maemo SDK Gregale under linux Oct 29 21:56:40 seems > seem :$ Oct 29 21:57:12 if you don't get an answer right away, try again later Oct 29 21:57:46 And that's a wrap. Oct 29 21:57:47 and leave chat client in channel in case of a response Oct 29 21:58:04 done with conic alterego ? Oct 29 21:58:15 ruby-maemo-0.2.0 Oct 29 21:58:33 Including LibConIc, LibOSSO and Hildon-1 Oct 29 21:58:48 congrats Oct 29 21:59:09 i want to try ruby on n800 Oct 29 21:59:34 Then you've come to the right place. Oct 29 21:59:37 is it usable as python ? Oct 29 21:59:37 seems to rune fine here Oct 29 21:59:47 Yup Oct 29 21:59:52 is it usable as python ? Oct 29 21:59:56 ops Oct 29 22:00:01 integrated in aamaemo/hildon ? Oct 29 22:00:10 If you wait a few minutes for the new release to be uploaded to my server I'll point you at it. Oct 29 22:00:23 Yes, there are full hildon-1 bindings. Oct 29 22:00:27 Oh, the release is finally ready? Oct 29 22:00:28 ok i'll wait :) Oct 29 22:00:40 hildon-fm to be added next week. Oct 29 22:01:11 My upload is horrible. I probably should have done it _as_ I was building all the packages. Oct 29 22:01:19 lol Oct 29 22:01:28 30K/s Oct 29 22:01:42 is possible to develop in ruby+ggtk in maemo so? Oct 29 22:01:44 ouch. Oct 29 22:01:50 I'm uploading them as a tarball Oct 29 22:01:56 L0c-[N800], yes Oct 29 22:02:00 wow Oct 29 22:02:03 I'll upload the examples. Oct 29 22:02:10 perfect,great Oct 29 22:02:56 DanyUP: what kind of problems? Oct 29 22:03:08 there is also an homepage/blog/other to see and learn ? Oct 29 22:03:20 L0c-[N800], not really. Oct 29 22:03:28 There's a very small amount of documentation Oct 29 22:03:32 And a couple of examples. Oct 29 22:03:49 http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/CURRENT Oct 29 22:03:59 ok,thanks Oct 29 22:04:01 Ok I'll try to explain my problem: I followed maemo tutorial until it says to launch af-sb-init.sh start. But the I get lots of errors about hildon libraries. Oct 29 22:04:38 Something like /usr/lib/hildon-status-bar/libsound.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Oct 29 22:04:54 L0c-[N800], the documentation issue will get better. Oct 29 22:05:08 L0c-[N800], I just don't have time to work on it right now. Oct 29 22:05:14 someone whith latest nokia firmware is using PAN? Oct 29 22:05:17 I looked in /usr/lib and I must admit there are non such libraries Oct 29 22:05:38 alterego, don't worry Oct 29 22:06:11 seems on the latest firmware bnep.ko module is gone... Oct 29 22:06:14 someone knows where do I find these libs? Oct 29 22:07:03 Okay, packages are uploaded. Oct 29 22:07:14 ruby-maemo-0.2.0 is unofficially officially out. Oct 29 22:07:48 :) Oct 29 22:08:19 Ooops, the examples directory seems to be broken. Oct 29 22:15:12 no one knows? Oct 29 22:15:16 alterego: i'm downloading from current/2007/armel Oct 29 22:15:29 libruby* and ruby* Oct 29 22:15:39 p|, that should work for N800 with current firmware and 770 with 2007HE Oct 29 22:15:40 hi :) Oct 29 22:16:05 p|, you'll need ruby1.8-maemo too if you want to develop Gtk apps. Oct 29 22:16:33 alterego: do i need also files on ext/ dev/ dird ? Oct 29 22:16:37 dirs* Oct 29 22:16:46 No, they're optional. Oct 29 22:17:00 are they useful for ? Oct 29 22:17:22 Wait a sec, I missed the damn ruby-maemo package! Oct 29 22:17:26 (most important one) Oct 29 22:17:41 Well... ok... I'll ask for it another time Oct 29 22:18:09 gh Oct 29 22:18:27 DanyUP: unfortunately i'm a very noob in n800/maemo :D Oct 29 22:18:42 no problem Oct 29 22:19:03 I'm "noober" since i'm installing the sdk :D Oct 29 22:19:08 p|, a new package should have just appeared in the directory you're downloading from. Oct 29 22:19:19 thanks anyway Oct 29 22:19:22 bye to all Oct 29 22:19:40 Those three are the only ones you need to develop GUI/Hildon/OSSO/GTK applications Oct 29 22:19:58 alterego: yep Oct 29 22:20:18 is it complete ? can i download it ? Oct 29 22:20:22 Yes Oct 29 22:20:52 there is a 'right sequence' to install all the stuff ? Oct 29 22:21:02 libruby, ruby, ruby-maemo Oct 29 22:21:13 k Oct 29 22:21:20 does anyone know where I could buy an N800 EU navkit for a low price? I mean very low.. Oct 29 22:21:31 ebay. Oct 29 22:21:35 or just the software Oct 29 22:21:46 Or, just wait for OS2008 Oct 29 22:22:01 GeneralAntilles: why ? Oct 29 22:22:07 2008 have a navkit ? Oct 29 22:22:38 The maps, anyway. Oct 29 22:23:13 GeneralAntilles: there are only usa versions and for the same price as the n800 itself Oct 29 22:23:13 does anyone know, if the navicore-software from the N800-Navkit will work under OS2008? Oct 29 22:23:39 chelli, the software would be redundant. Oct 29 22:23:45 But I'm guessing your license will work fine. Oct 29 22:23:53 chelli: as I know you can use your current licence with the 2008 but I don't know what you will get for it Oct 29 22:23:53 szucsati, then just wait for OS2008 Oct 29 22:24:04 p|, be warned. That it's not very highly tested. So if please submit any bugs you encounter. Oct 29 22:24:04 It's just about two weeks away. Oct 29 22:24:10 GeneralAntilles: yes, that's what i wanted to hear :) Oct 29 22:24:24 alterego: i'm also a ruby noob :) Oct 29 22:24:30 :) Oct 29 22:24:31 so i test and learn :D Oct 29 22:24:37 Good plan! Oct 29 22:24:51 p|, my advise. Play with the Hildon widgets. Oct 29 22:25:05 how will the wayfinder work? will I get a dvd if I buy it like with navicore? and for what price..? Oct 29 22:25:07 i really hope that the licence from the n800-navkit will work with the integrated software in OS2008, we'll see :) Oct 29 22:25:22 What little documentation I've put up there should be of some help :/ The examples are probably a little bit more helpful. Oct 29 22:26:43 szucsati, maps are bundled, navigation is evidently about $120-$130 USD. Oct 29 22:27:21 p|, any comments on anything relating to it. The website, the packages, installation whatever. Let me know and I'll try an improve it. Oct 29 22:27:39 p|, you can view the sources at http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/repository Oct 29 22:28:26 too much advanced for me alterego ;-) Oct 29 22:28:41 GeneralAntilles: 120-130 USD / year? or lifetime? Oct 29 22:28:49 3-year Oct 29 22:29:08 hm.. that wouldn't be too bad Oct 29 22:29:11 p|, well. You'd be suprised. Just to get an idea of what's in there. Look at the file names. If you want to know what methods are defined in a given class. open the file and look for the init_* function. Oct 29 22:29:22 Or, just use maemo Mapper for free. Oct 29 22:29:47 with Maemo Mapper as I know there's no offline route planning :( Oct 29 22:31:07 pupnik_, new packages are out :) Oct 29 22:36:01 btw any news about Maemo Mapper 2.0? Oct 29 22:37:17 to develop/port software to maemo, is it ok the maemo.org live cd ? Oct 29 22:37:43 szucsati: It's being worked on. Oct 29 22:38:59 zerojay: cool :) Oct 29 22:41:02 time to go to bed here :) Oct 29 22:41:33 good night to all and thanks for help and support :) Oct 29 22:41:44 bye Oct 29 22:53:46 OK, Darius Jack gets the paranoid mailing list subscriber of the year award. Oct 29 22:55:08 No. Oct 29 22:55:12 :) Oct 29 22:55:30 Darius gets the "most annoying non-negative poster of the year award". Oct 29 22:55:38 Fair enough. Oct 29 22:59:15 Oh gosh. Oct 29 22:59:22 I didn't see what you were refering to until just now. Oct 29 22:59:25 What a fucking idiot. Oct 29 22:59:28 Indeed. Oct 29 22:59:33 Did you see what he posted on ITT? Oct 29 22:59:46 5 people URGENT need N800s! Oct 29 22:59:58 We said "buy them online and have them shipped overnight". Oct 29 23:00:03 Apparently that wasn't good enough. Oct 29 23:00:20 Indeed. That's what he's referring to, AFAICT Oct 29 23:00:59 I love how he thinks it's a microsoft project now. Oct 29 23:01:23 From two @msn.com addresses, he's crackers. Oct 29 23:01:47 * Jaffa 's responding, just to see how he reacts to being told "don't be silly". He could just be being silly, or he could be paranoid delusional. Oct 29 23:03:21 :) Oct 29 23:03:26 I want to see someone bitchslap him back to the stone ages. Oct 29 23:03:31 Verbally, of course. Oct 29 23:03:36 Physically would be a bonus. Oct 29 23:03:50 * Jaffa 's too polite and British to be bitchslapping anyone on a mailing list. Oct 29 23:04:17 However, I Just spent an hour on the phone with a colleague trying to work out why two of the buttons in our web app weren't appearing for the demo he's doing tomorrow, and eventually find that the person who put together the new look & feel for this customer changed: "width: 480px;" to "width: 320px" in layout.css. Oct 29 23:04:18 .ie = Ireland? Oct 29 23:04:39 Yeah, IIRC Oct 29 23:04:48 Close enough to do the bitchslapping in person Oct 29 23:05:22 css == evil Oct 29 23:05:33 Fixed widths are evil too, but it's not my design. Oct 29 23:06:04 pages have no business acting on the size of the browser Oct 29 23:07:10 CSS == so much better than tables Oct 29 23:07:33 * Jaffa agrees with GeneralAntilles: CSS is a long way from perfect, but it's better than the alternatives. Oct 29 23:07:58 pages should be independant of browser/device specificities Oct 29 23:08:16 that way any handheld device can handle it instead of having a billion different versions Oct 29 23:11:41 CSS is nice. Oct 29 23:11:56 HTML is bad. Oct 29 23:13:04 they're both crap Oct 29 23:13:10 :] Oct 29 23:13:45 I don't think HTML is bad. It's just that we grew past it too fast and there's not really much to replace it. Oct 29 23:14:04 I think it's bad. Oct 29 23:14:24 It's bad because it's not really that good at doing what it's supposed to do. markup content. Oct 29 23:14:43 * Jaffa beds. Oct 29 23:35:33 * DRoBeR is away: sleeping on the sidewalk... :D Oct 29 23:52:24 good night guys, thank for all the help! Oct 30 00:19:22 how do you repair a gstreamer install that is messed up? most video will no longer play here (stuff mplayer handles works ok) Oct 30 00:21:02 I get media codex not supported for video I know work previously Oct 30 00:21:16 Wait for 2008 and reflash? Oct 30 00:21:30 the idea is NOT to have to reinstall Oct 30 00:21:45 Well, you're going to _have to_ reinstall when OS2008 comes out Oct 30 00:21:46 I know that will fix things but its LOTS of work to rebuild my setup Oct 30 00:21:51 so you could just wait. Oct 30 00:21:56 and I want to know what broke THIS setup Oct 30 00:22:07 I will but 2008 in a second partn Oct 30 00:22:32 but want a working 2007.38 to fall back to which 2008 stabilizes Oct 30 00:23:40 I have tried reinstalling gst-plugins-farsight gstreamer0.10-gnomevfs gstreamer0.10-id3lib-osso streamer0.10-plugins-base gstreamer0.10-plugins-base-extra gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-plugins-good-extra libgst0.10-dsp Oct 30 00:23:45 with no luck Oct 30 00:24:27 I have found gstreamer to be a VERY fussy infra on other distributions Oct 30 00:24:33 guess it is here too Oct 30 00:25:27 the -osso libraries do not seem to be packaged (if they are what is the repo?) Oct 30 00:26:14 What did you do to break it in the first place? Oct 30 00:27:51 If I knew that fixing would be much easier . I just tried video after about a week without and they started give codex failed messages Oct 30 00:28:28 sorry 'codex not supported'. This is after they are buffered and just as they would normally begin to play Oct 30 00:29:32 there were probably a few apps installed and updated done between the sucessful and unsucessful attempts to play video Oct 30 02:17:54 I want to use my n800 as a mouse/keyboard for my mythtv box. Is that currently possible? Oct 30 02:18:31 trevarthan: I guess so Oct 30 02:18:37 vnc hehhe Oct 30 02:18:55 mmm Oct 30 02:19:10 I was thinking more along the lines of synergy Oct 30 02:19:33 but actually a cross between synergy and vnc would be more appropriate, I think. Oct 30 02:20:45 I'd like the n800's touch screen to act like a synaptic touch pad. i.e. not absolute screen position, but relative. Oct 30 02:20:53 DIY, man! Oct 30 02:21:06 yeah. I might. just thinking aloud. Oct 30 02:21:57 yeah. diy. then share. make it act as a bluetooth touchpad Oct 30 02:28:59 ooooooooh. bluetooth. that would be WICKED cool. Oct 30 02:29:11 way beyond me. :) but wicked cool all the same. Oct 30 02:30:18 What might not be beyond me is a frontend for synergy. Oct 30 02:30:27 there's quicksynergy Oct 30 02:34:56 looks like synergy already has support for relative mouse movements, so maybe all it needs is an easy setup GUI Oct 30 02:35:24 I'll take a look later. too many cool projects to work on. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 30 02:59:56 2007