**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 03 02:59:57 2007
Nov 03 05:10:28 <rubiks> what is the root password?
Nov 03 05:10:28 <_Monkey> the root password is rootme
Nov 03 05:10:58 <rubiks> that was to fast
Nov 03 05:38:00 <zoran> I have a question regarding the battery
Nov 03 05:39:07 <rubiks> do 770 apps work for n800?
Nov 03 05:40:00 <zoran> hm, I tried to start up 770 and after 7-8 secs it went down; does it sound like battery problem?
Nov 03 06:40:15 <rubiks> why are some apps not downloadable on maemo.org?
Nov 03 06:43:36 <rubiks> like midnight commander
Nov 03 06:43:39 <rubiks> mc
Nov 03 06:44:20 <zoran> what device? 770 or n800?
Nov 03 07:06:42 <rubiks> n800
Nov 03 07:10:24 <lopz> bye
Nov 03 07:28:15 <sciboy> I miss UKTube. =(
Nov 03 09:09:49 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 03 09:21:33 <disq> morning
Nov 03 09:21:34 <_Monkey> aloha
Nov 03 09:51:22 <p|> yo
Nov 03 09:55:34 * Jaffa applies for "Media Utils" garage project to host 770-encode (albeit renamed to tablet-encode) and mediaserv
Nov 03 10:34:56 <chx> hi. is there any place where the n810 is already in stock? (for eg. the E51 phone is available from german ebay while in general it's not really out yet)
Nov 03 10:43:56 <_pcfe_> if eBäh has anything on sale that the Nokia flagship store in Helsinki does not sell (as of last week both N810 and E51) I would be very weary of the seller.
Nov 03 11:33:42 <pupnik> For the emulators, i found a 200 game Amiga CDrom (horrible selection though) and a 500-game C64 CDrom in the supermarket for 5 euro each.
Nov 03 11:45:24 <chx> oh
Nov 03 11:46:53 <chx> pupnik: and how could someone else put his paws on those? :)
Nov 03 11:48:09 <pupnik> searching online, or checking out the local software store/supermarket
Nov 03 11:48:48 <pupnik> I just mentioned it in case people avoid the emulators because they think the only game collections are warez
Nov 03 11:55:48 <derf> pupnik: And how do you know all of the games on that CD are legitimately licensed?
Nov 03 11:57:04 <pupnik> Because most of them suck? :)
Nov 03 11:58:40 <derf> Well, I suppose that's fair.
Nov 03 11:59:34 <pupnik> You're right, consumer doesn't know - but violations would be responsiblity of the publisher in this case.
Nov 03 12:17:47 <chx> so you are telling me that all http://tinyurl.com/2w2rqg these auctions are scams? would be hard to believe.
Nov 03 12:17:51 <chx> many powersellers...
Nov 03 12:22:03 <derf> chx: For all those that believe in eBay ratings: http://xkcd.com/325/
Nov 03 12:23:02 <chx> derf: lol.
Nov 03 12:23:32 <derf> (don't forget to read the image's tooltip)
Nov 03 12:25:57 <alterego> Heh
Nov 03 12:26:37 <alterego> eBay is a huge target for exploits. It's a shame because it's such a useful service. But's its success attracts b*stards
Nov 03 12:26:56 <alterego> Which is why I wouldn't use it :)
Nov 03 12:27:03 <alterego> Only _very_ rarely,.
Nov 03 12:40:32 <chx> dunno. ihad a lot of deals over ebay and never had any probs.
Nov 03 12:43:45 <alterego> Well, I've used it a bit and not had problems. But don't tempt fate I say ;)
Nov 03 12:44:14 <alterego> I'm not one of those people that uses eBay for _everything_, like a lot of people tend to do now-a-days.
Nov 03 12:45:14 <Jiten> there is certain attraction to a "shop" that has everything :)
Nov 03 12:45:34 * chx is itching baaaadly for an E51.
Nov 03 12:46:32 <Jiten> my n800 + 6120 pair will have to serve me for the next couple of years. Unless one of them breaks, I'm not replacing them before that.
Nov 03 12:50:09 <chx> yeah but i was only eyeing these tables before the N810
Nov 03 12:50:18 <chx> but the sldiing keyboard and the GPS won me over
Nov 03 12:50:28 <chx> and the E51, it's like a phone built to my order:)
Nov 03 12:50:41 <chx> much to my shock, they left nothing out
Nov 03 12:50:43 <alterego> Yeah, the keyboard will make it a lot easier for instant messaging.
Nov 03 12:51:03 <chx> what about SSH and occssionaly note taking :) ?
Nov 03 12:51:10 <alterego> ;)
Nov 03 12:51:19 <alterego> ruby hacking ;)
Nov 03 12:51:25 <chx> For a very very long time I was looking at various devices to be able to SSH on the road
Nov 03 12:51:47 <alterego> Yes, that was one of the reasons I got the tablet.
Nov 03 12:51:52 <chx> TyTN -- almost. but the keyboard is small, the CPU is slow, and the OS makes me throw up.
Nov 03 12:52:03 <alterego> I'm on call 24/7 so it's very handy when a server breaks ^_^
Nov 03 12:52:14 <chx> me too
Nov 03 12:52:44 <chx> I am not the sysadmin... I am just the developer team lead but when the code breaks, well, it's showtime  for me , regarldess of sday or night.
Nov 03 12:55:35 <pupnik> http://zodttd.com/  for emus, check out the JXD 301 handheld emulator player - pretty sharp device
Nov 03 13:24:09 <zerojay> Hmm.. I thought that to run a Jabber server available publically, it had to have its own domain name.
Nov 03 13:24:11 <zerojay> I was wrong.
Nov 03 15:51:16 <legind> hm it would be more accurate if the "memory" program just read memory info from the df command
Nov 03 15:51:36 <legind> Storage memory in use: 23.34 GB
Nov 03 15:51:49 <legind> Storage memory available: 1.19 GB
Nov 03 15:51:50 <legind> hehe
Nov 03 15:56:07 <legind> can you have kagu search only certain directories?
Nov 03 15:57:44 <zoran> Jiten, I got 6233
Nov 03 15:58:28 <rafl> what's the n800s display resolution?
Nov 03 15:58:40 <zoran> 800x480
Nov 03 15:58:41 <_Monkey> 800x480 is probably plenty of room to strech out in, and matchbox makes me feel like penguinbait is in prison
Nov 03 15:58:47 <rafl> thanks
Nov 03 15:59:57 <Jiten> zoran: happy with it?
Nov 03 16:00:20 <zoran> few hours
Nov 03 16:00:27 <zoran> not bad, but ugly screensaver
Nov 03 16:00:41 <zoran> gonna make my own
Nov 03 16:02:12 <zoran> this days I looked at people and their phones; human kind is obsessed with little gadget and does not pay attention to outside world
Nov 03 16:06:43 <legind> if you type passwords into the onscreen keyboard in a browser is the n800 going to remember those keystrokes?
Nov 03 16:07:28 <zoran> legind, it should be rather app dependable
Nov 03 16:07:33 <Robot101> it knows when you're typing into a password field
Nov 03 16:07:38 <Robot101> it's broken in terminals though
Nov 03 16:08:48 <legind> yeah ok
Nov 03 16:08:57 <legind> thanks RobAtWork
Nov 03 16:09:01 <legind> er Robot101
Nov 03 16:18:07 <zpol> hola
Nov 03 16:20:22 <alterego> aloh
Nov 03 16:20:24 <alterego> a
Nov 03 16:24:34 <zoran> how linux manages with usb card readers, apacer am300 in fact?
Nov 03 16:25:16 <alterego> Works fine with my USB card readers. Better than Windows in fact.
Nov 03 16:25:31 <zoran> I cannot make it be seen on freebsd
Nov 03 16:25:52 <alterego> Maybe you should seek help on a FreeBSD channel then.
Nov 03 16:25:55 <zoran> linux usb driver is probably much better
Nov 03 16:26:02 <zoran> ah, I did
Nov 03 16:26:28 <alterego> Well, I find it hard to believe they got it that wrong. Card readers generally show them selves as generic mass storage devices.
Nov 03 16:26:40 <zoran> hm, yes
Nov 03 16:26:56 * timelyx sighs
Nov 03 16:27:04 <zoran> bsd folks just ignore some problems
Nov 03 16:27:13 <timelyx> sp3000: i really really feel like kicking something
Nov 03 16:27:23 <timelyx> i try using this program, and it fails because of a memory card write error
Nov 03 16:27:32 <timelyx> but i didn't ask it to do a write, i asked it to find helcon for me
Nov 03 16:27:46 <alterego> Oh, memory card woes :)
Nov 03 16:28:02 <zoran> not bad topic
Nov 03 16:28:10 <timelyx> you try using 2gb card and w/ a 4gb partition
Nov 03 16:28:14 <timelyx> see how well that works...
Nov 03 16:28:31 <alterego> I've got 2x 2G cards.
Nov 03 16:28:38 <alterego> One partitioned up the middle.
Nov 03 16:28:41 <timelyx> yeah, i have lots of cards
Nov 03 16:28:52 <timelyx> but this is the only one so cleverly partitioned
Nov 03 16:29:08 <alterego> Sounds like you should fix it :P
Nov 03 16:29:10 <sp3000> have you considered re-partitioning :)
Nov 03 16:29:12 <zoran> 2 cards in one partition?
Nov 03 16:29:27 <erstazi_> that seems too complex to mess with
Nov 03 16:29:48 <zoran> 2 gb is a lot of room
Nov 03 16:29:56 <timelyx> sp3000: i considered asking windows to look at the card
Nov 03 16:30:00 <timelyx> i never got around to doing it
Nov 03 16:30:11 <timelyx> anyway, i'm off to helcon2007 @ vuorimiehenkatu 17
Nov 03 16:30:21 <erstazi_> have fun timelyx
Nov 03 16:30:37 <timelyx> zoran: i've filled a number of 2gb cards
Nov 03 16:30:40 <timelyx> this one, i have no idea
Nov 03 16:30:45 <timelyx> but i'm fairly certain it's mounted ro
Nov 03 16:30:52 <timelyx> which causes all sorts of amusing errors
Nov 03 16:31:01 <timelyx> sp3000: remind me to terrorize a few more people on monday
Nov 03 16:31:06 <timelyx> *grr*
Nov 03 16:31:16 <zoran> may I ask what is exact problem?
Nov 03 16:31:22 <timelyx> the card came that way
Nov 03 16:31:28 <timelyx> 4gb partition on  a 2gb card
Nov 03 16:31:36 <zoran> reading prob?
Nov 03 16:31:37 <alterego> O_o
Nov 03 16:31:47 <timelyx> eventually something didn't approve of it and it was mounted readonly
Nov 03 16:31:54 <timelyx> now, there's this cute app that comes w/ n810s
Nov 03 16:31:55 <zoran> does reparand reformat help?
Nov 03 16:32:08 <timelyx> i haven't tried as sp3000 elicited
Nov 03 16:32:19 * timelyx puts on a "lazy user hat"
Nov 03 16:32:21 <zoran> what is fs?
Nov 03 16:32:28 <timelyx> ask sp3000? :)
Nov 03 16:32:33 <timelyx> probably fat32, what else would it be
Nov 03 16:32:48 <zoran> hey, it's not your card?
Nov 03 16:32:55 <timelyx> it's not my device
Nov 03 16:33:11 <timelyx> and calling it a card might be overstepping
Nov 03 16:33:12 <zoran> has ip address?
Nov 03 16:33:14 <timelyx> since you can't remove it
Nov 03 16:33:28 <timelyx> no, among other amusing things, my wifi router refuses to speak wifi to me
Nov 03 16:33:43 <zoran> buy it a flower
Nov 03 16:33:51 <timelyx> i.e. the password is top secret from its dedicated user
Nov 03 16:33:58 <erstazi_> haha
Nov 03 16:34:01 <erstazi_> I been there
Nov 03 16:34:08 <erstazi_> forgot the passphrase I gave it
Nov 03 16:34:09 <timelyx> i've been here for 2months now?
Nov 03 16:34:10 <erstazi_> didn't write it down
Nov 03 16:34:24 <timelyx> it came preconfigured and they told me the password
Nov 03 16:34:33 <timelyx> it worked for a while, at some point i think it got reset
Nov 03 16:34:33 <erstazi_> did you try admin?
Nov 03 16:34:39 <erstazi_> oh
Nov 03 16:34:41 <timelyx> it's not, it's custom
Nov 03 16:34:56 <timelyx> corporate magic at work
Nov 03 16:35:09 <zoran> timelyx, I didn't follow the thread; what is the device?
Nov 03 16:35:10 <timelyx> anyway, it's mostly amusing, i don't really care (clearly)
Nov 03 16:35:12 <erstazi_> yeap
Nov 03 16:35:38 <timelyx> which. the router is an elisa dsl managed by nokia it
Nov 03 16:35:49 <timelyx> the n810 is nokia's owned and operated by me
Nov 03 16:35:55 <zoran> no, device with that strange partition
Nov 03 16:36:00 <zoran> ah!
Nov 03 16:36:01 <timelyx> it's a prototype
Nov 03 16:36:10 <timelyx> the real ones aren't supposed to be like that :)
Nov 03 16:36:21 <erstazi_> haha
Nov 03 16:36:24 <zoran> so, you have no root at this moment?
Nov 03 16:36:34 <timelyx> i don't have time
Nov 03 16:36:42 <erstazi_> but, but, you are timelyx
Nov 03 16:36:47 <timelyx> i have a map, a desitation, and a goal
Nov 03 16:37:04 <timelyx> and i personally prefer broken devices
Nov 03 16:37:06 <timelyx> they show bugs
Nov 03 16:37:12 <timelyx> e.g. this one in the map application
Nov 03 16:37:19 * erstazi_ shall be right back
Nov 03 16:37:20 <zoran> I would like better inner card with map, not this one
Nov 03 16:37:30 <timelyx> zoran: this is the inner card...
Nov 03 16:37:38 <zoran> who wants map, puts it in
Nov 03 16:37:38 <timelyx> but i can't easily get new maps (see lack of working wifi)
Nov 03 16:37:47 <timelyx> so i'm not in a hurry to destroy the card
Nov 03 16:37:56 <zoran> it could be removed?
Nov 03 16:38:00 <timelyx> no
Nov 03 16:38:06 <zoran> ah, you see?
Nov 03 16:38:09 <sp3000> for some value of could I'm sure
Nov 03 16:38:10 <zoran> if you could...
Nov 03 16:38:28 <timelyx> zoran: i'd be stuck w/ no maps
Nov 03 16:38:31 <timelyx> how does that help?
Nov 03 16:38:38 <timelyx> i could reformat it too
Nov 03 16:38:41 <zoran> you could put anything you like
Nov 03 16:38:47 <timelyx> but not maps
Nov 03 16:38:51 <zoran> music, films...
Nov 03 16:38:51 <timelyx> because i have no wifi
Nov 03 16:38:52 <timelyx> and no maps
Nov 03 16:38:55 <timelyx> and no wifi
Nov 03 16:39:03 <zoran> wifi is for pussies
Nov 03 16:39:09 <timelyx> how do you magically add films to a memory card w/o wifi?
Nov 03 16:39:10 <zoran> no, joke
Nov 03 16:39:23 <zoran> I liek wifi and use it
Nov 03 16:39:37 <zoran> but have no _so_ broadband
Nov 03 16:39:53 <sp3000> so mirror to ext
Nov 03 16:40:41 <zoran> are maps so important in life?
Nov 03 16:41:59 <alterego> "File System"
Nov 03 16:45:31 <alterego> I think he's trying to play more with the bug in the mapping software he ofund.
Nov 03 16:46:41 <timelyx> yes
Nov 03 16:47:14 <alterego> Send your prototype to me. I'll fix it.
Nov 03 16:47:18 * alterego runs away.
Nov 03 16:47:56 <alterego> I'm sure you'll be able to replace the card with a hammer.
Nov 03 16:48:41 * timelyx kicks discovercard.com
Nov 03 16:48:41 <alterego> Can you not setup USB net?
Nov 03 16:48:49 <timelyx> to my mac?
Nov 03 16:48:52 <alterego> Sure
Nov 03 16:48:56 <timelyx> maybe
Nov 03 16:49:03 <timelyx> but i don't have the proper usb cable
Nov 03 16:49:11 <alterego> Oh
Nov 03 16:49:12 <timelyx> so while i could try to figure out how in the world to setup the mac side
Nov 03 16:49:12 <zoran> bt?
Nov 03 16:49:17 <alterego> I forgot they changed it didn't they.
Nov 03 16:49:17 <timelyx> it wouldn't go very far :)
Nov 03 16:49:20 <timelyx> yep
Nov 03 16:49:33 <timelyx> zoran: again, the question is: why bother?
Nov 03 16:49:44 <zoran> for art sake
Nov 03 16:49:48 <timelyx> sp3000's right, the fastest solution is an external mmc, a copy, and a reformat
Nov 03 16:49:57 <timelyx> but my art is bug finding
Nov 03 16:49:59 <timelyx> i'm very good
Nov 03 16:50:16 <zoran> bug terminator?
Nov 03 16:50:17 <timelyx> or maybe, software is just very buggy
Nov 03 16:50:22 <timelyx> bug-reporter
Nov 03 16:50:25 <alterego> I'm very good at ignoring bugs
Nov 03 16:50:26 <zoran> :)
Nov 03 16:50:33 <timelyx> fixing bugs is left as an exercise to the responsible party
Nov 03 16:51:04 <zoran> \/c
Nov 03 16:51:33 <alterego> I can't seem to get anything done today.
Nov 03 16:51:59 <zoran> you successfuly type this
Nov 03 16:52:37 <alterego> Hmm .. Maybe I'll do some more on ruby-maemo
Nov 03 16:52:49 <alterego> If _real_ work isn't inspiring me.
Nov 03 16:54:16 <zoran> hm, I hate when in the exactly the same situation, posters have correct output, but it fails on my box!
Nov 03 17:01:03 <L0cutus> wow what a crash :)
Nov 03 17:01:18 <L0cutus> i'm trying to instal rails on my n800
Nov 03 17:01:42 <zoran> heh, whole train?
Nov 03 17:01:59 <L0cutus> first the terminal
Nov 03 17:02:13 <L0cutus> than the other parts :)
Nov 03 17:02:42 <zoran> seriously, a lot of stuff on 770/800 works just fine
Nov 03 17:02:58 <zoran> have you ever tried to port something on vms?
Nov 03 17:03:19 <wumpus> you can run openttd on it, that has trains too :p
Nov 03 17:05:16 <ajturner> would be nice to have Rails views render Ruby-Maemo
Nov 03 17:09:38 <alterego> rubygems on device isn't even worth trying L0cutus
Nov 03 17:09:48 <alterego> If you want rails you'll have to package it on the SDK.
Nov 03 17:15:26 <jkyro> who needs rails when there is django >:)
Nov 03 17:15:40 <jkyro> runs fine on the device too
Nov 03 17:15:40 <alterego> I've looked at that.
Nov 03 17:15:43 <alterego> Rails is nicer.
Nov 03 17:15:46 <jkyro> nope
Nov 03 17:16:00 <jkyro> it's easier to start with, yes
Nov 03 17:16:12 <alterego> More flexible too.
Nov 03 17:16:20 <alterego> Ruby is nicer than Python as a dynamic language.
Nov 03 17:16:23 <zoran> shpan800?
Nov 03 17:16:27 <jkyro> but if you'd like to change a little something there's an assload of stuff you need to write
Nov 03 17:16:29 <zoran> *n800
Nov 03 17:16:41 <alterego> Like what?
Nov 03 17:16:51 <jkyro> more flexible, I don't think so
Nov 03 17:16:52 <alterego> What would you need to change in Rails?
Nov 03 17:17:03 <alterego> I speak from a lot of experience jkyro
Nov 03 17:17:11 <jkyro> I believ that
Nov 03 17:17:43 <jkyro> well, maybe it's just me
Nov 03 17:17:52 <alterego> I'd imagine taste has a lot to do with it.
Nov 03 17:17:53 <jkyro> django was easier eince I knew python already
Nov 03 17:18:02 <jkyro> e=s
Nov 03 17:18:03 <alterego> Yes, that would certainly help.
Nov 03 17:18:22 <alterego> I'd say the exact same thing about Rails.
Nov 03 17:18:36 <alterego> Substituting Ruby for Python obviously ;)
Nov 03 17:18:50 <alterego> I prefer Ruby's approach to OO
Nov 03 17:19:12 <alterego> Blocks and iterators are also a very good thing that Python somewhat miss fires on.
Nov 03 17:19:25 <alterego> lambda is a joke in Python ^_^
Nov 03 17:20:05 <alterego> Obviously Python does perform a lot better with it's bytecode interpreter. Though hopefully Ruby 2.0 will close that gap significantly.
Nov 03 17:20:16 <jkyro> OK, i'm no t going into this argument :)
Nov 03 17:20:20 <jkyro> deeper I mean
Nov 03 17:20:52 <jkyro> I agree that lambda is a joke but then again it's not that crucial anyway
Nov 03 17:21:16 <alterego> Have you used the Python Maemo bindings?
Nov 03 17:21:21 <jkyro> yup
Nov 03 17:21:25 <jkyro> not much tho
Nov 03 17:21:26 <alterego> What are they like?
Nov 03 17:21:48 <alterego> I was interested in how it handles callbacks in LibOSSO.
Nov 03 17:21:48 <jkyro> well, what do you wont to know?
Nov 03 17:22:03 <jkyro> ok, that I haven't tested
Nov 03 17:22:27 <jkyro> mut I suspect thsy have ysed pyrex for the bindings as with a load of other stuff as well
Nov 03 17:22:43 <jkyro> my god, what am I writing?
Nov 03 17:22:52 <jkyro> I
Nov 03 17:22:59 <alterego> pyrex? Is that like SWIG?
Nov 03 17:23:09 <jkyro> something like that yes
Nov 03 17:23:20 <jkyro> bindings generator
Nov 03 17:23:41 <jkyro> (it seems the batteries of the wireless keyboard are running out, apologies)
Nov 03 17:23:47 <alterego> I wasn't to impressed with the Python LibOSSO bindings. They're very odd. Maybe that's why.
Nov 03 17:23:55 <ilrepo> my maemo 3.2 upgrade freezes at "Unpacking replacement rx-34-kernel-headers ...", anyone else had problems with that?
Nov 03 17:24:17 <ilrepo> using ubuntu 7.10
Nov 03 17:24:18 <jkyro> the documentation isn't that good either
Nov 03 17:24:27 <alterego> Hah, at least they've got documentation ;)
Nov 03 17:25:32 <alterego> I think my main gripe with python maemo at the moment is they just seemed to mirror the C API.
Nov 03 17:25:41 <alterego> You might as well just code in C :P
Nov 03 17:26:43 <jkyro> I see what you mean
Nov 03 17:26:56 <jkyro> the gobject is quite horrible also IMHO
Nov 03 17:26:58 <L0cutus> alterego: i've made a simple loop-test with ruby and python
Nov 03 17:27:01 <L0cutus> (on n800)
Nov 03 17:27:04 <alterego> I spent a good couple of days creating a very friendly Ruby API for libosso. Which I'm quite proud of.
Nov 03 17:27:11 <L0cutus> and ruby on n800 is faster than python :)
Nov 03 17:27:33 <alterego> L0cutus, I find that hard to believe. Maybe it's just that particular loop :P
Nov 03 17:27:43 <L0cutus> possible yes :)
Nov 03 17:28:03 <L0cutus> for i in 1..1000000
Nov 03 17:28:04 <jkyro> I haven't done any benchmarking, python seems fast enough for most cases
Nov 03 17:28:06 <L0cutus> a=i
Nov 03 17:28:08 <L0cutus> end
Nov 03 17:28:29 <alterego> jkyro, as does Ruby. Though start up times aren't great. Once the program is running it's fine.
Nov 03 17:28:34 <jkyro> but importing stuff is really slow
Nov 03 17:28:43 <alterego> Really?
Nov 03 17:28:50 <alterego> Odd.
Nov 03 17:29:03 <jkyro> yeah, it affects startup quite heavily
Nov 03 17:29:20 <alterego> Possibly something to do with Gtk/Hildon. It can take a bit of time for those to get initialized.
Nov 03 17:29:36 <alterego> I think that might be a similar issue with ruby
Nov 03 17:29:56 <jkyro> as I said, havent done any real testing to find out if there's a particular culprit
Nov 03 17:30:28 * alterego looks for the Python tutorial.
Nov 03 17:31:33 <jkyro> anyway, I gotta go. Happy hacking with ruby :)
Nov 03 17:31:39 <alterego> When the maemo 4 tutorial is released I'll rewrite it for Ruby
Nov 03 17:31:51 <alterego> Sure, have a nice evening jkyro
Nov 03 17:34:24 <L0cutus> ciao jkyro
Nov 03 17:34:55 <L0cutus> i've just reformat my mmc with ext3...
Nov 03 17:35:14 <zoran> hm
Nov 03 17:35:43 <zoran> it is said to check too often; cannot confirm if true
Nov 03 17:35:59 <alterego> I wouldn't use ext3 on an MMC card.
Nov 03 17:36:07 <zoran> I have ext2
Nov 03 17:36:12 <L0cutus> why ?
Nov 03 17:36:14 <alterego> Well, I wouldn't use it on any kind of flash memory.
Nov 03 17:36:19 <alterego> The journal L0cutus
Nov 03 17:36:35 <L0cutus> isn't it more crash+proof ?
Nov 03 17:36:39 <zoran> lasts not so long with ext3, probably
Nov 03 17:37:04 <L0cutus> hum
Nov 03 17:37:07 <alterego> Maybe, but it will shorten your memory cards lifetime.
Nov 03 17:37:23 <alterego> With all those writes to the same area .
Nov 03 17:37:28 <L0cutus> argh
Nov 03 17:37:42 <L0cutus> ok, i'll go back to ext2... :)
Nov 03 17:37:42 <alterego> I'd use ext2 ;)
Nov 03 17:37:42 <zoran> no need for v3, indeed
Nov 03 17:38:30 <derf> I thought the card did auto wear-leveling at the block level, so writes "to the same area" really aren't.
Nov 03 17:39:33 <zoran> little magician in mmc cannot do all the stuff
Nov 03 17:39:56 <L0cutus> it is a 6Gb microsd sandisk class 4
Nov 03 17:40:09 <L0cutus> (internal)
Nov 03 17:40:16 <zoran> why bother with ext2 at all?
Nov 03 17:40:24 <zoran> *ext3
Nov 03 17:40:56 <L0cutus> mmm i thins it also eat more cpu and ram
Nov 03 17:41:02 <L0cutus> think*
Nov 03 17:41:24 <L0cutus> just a try after all ;-)
Nov 03 17:42:30 <L0cutus> this is my latest buy: http://tinyurl.com/3ygt4k
Nov 03 17:42:46 <L0cutus> hope it is ok...
Nov 03 17:42:55 <alterego> L0cutus, yeah. It'd take a little more resources.
Nov 03 17:43:04 <alterego> Though, you can mount ext3 as ext2
Nov 03 17:43:26 <L0cutus> so i do not need to reformat it ?
Nov 03 17:43:27 <amr> is there another way to make a theme for the 770 besides using thememaker
Nov 03 17:44:54 <rubiks> red case?
Nov 03 17:45:06 <L0cutus> yup :)
Nov 03 17:45:26 <rubiks> nice
Nov 03 17:46:21 <L0cutus> does exist some dictionary eng<>ita for n800 ?
Nov 03 17:46:34 <rubiks> can we asume that all people that buy a nokia internet tablet know a litttle about linux?
Nov 03 17:47:04 <amr> i wouldn't
Nov 03 17:47:19 <amr> is it actually marketed as a 'linux-powered' device?
Nov 03 17:47:21 <derf> L0cutus: The Whitestork dictionary should be able to handle any general Western languages.
Nov 03 17:47:39 <derf> Just download the relevant dictionary files.
Nov 03 17:48:13 <derf> At least that's what I used for Dutch<->English when I was in the Netherlands recently.
Nov 03 17:48:27 <rubiks> i need some pda apps
Nov 03 17:48:59 <L0cutus> tnks derf i'll try
Nov 03 17:49:21 <amr> rubiks, gpe-pim?
Nov 03 17:51:27 <rubiks> hum... will check out
Nov 03 17:56:53 <lopz> re
Nov 03 17:58:00 <alterego> http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/sandbox/python_ruby_osso.txt
Nov 03 17:58:06 <alterego> Just a small API comparison.
Nov 03 17:58:48 <alterego> Probably look nicer with syntax highlighting ^_^
Nov 03 18:00:39 <alterego> Obviously the major differences here are Python needing an osso context object and then another context object for RPC or what other system is being used.
Nov 03 18:01:42 <alterego> Ruby's use of Hashes for named arguments isn't exactly ideal in my opinion but it's still quite clear.
Nov 03 18:05:02 <alterego> Maybe I could work a little more on the API.
Nov 03 18:05:45 <rubiks> is the an antena just to enable fm radio?
Nov 03 18:06:03 <rubiks> besides the head phones
Nov 03 18:06:11 <b0unc3> hello
Nov 03 18:06:12 <_Monkey> salut, b0unc3
Nov 03 18:07:59 <alterego> rubiks, no. The headphones are the antenna
Nov 03 18:10:34 <rubiks> :s ok, was just looking for another way
Nov 03 18:14:06 <L0cutus> how to restart a daemon un n800 ?
Nov 03 18:14:12 <L0cutus> un=on
Nov 03 18:14:23 <L0cutus> (sshd)
Nov 03 18:15:01 <alterego> /etc/init.d/sshd restart ?
Nov 03 18:15:24 <sp3000> same as anywhere I suppose, invoke-rc.d ssh restart
Nov 03 18:16:19 <sp3000> yeah, in bb /etc/init.d/... would give you completion which is helpful :)
Nov 03 18:16:44 <L0cutus> tnks
Nov 03 18:16:55 <rubiks> linux
Nov 03 18:18:00 <L0cutus> my distro have them into /etc/rc.d :)
Nov 03 18:18:02 <alterego> Uh oh ..
Nov 03 18:18:56 <rubiks> can maemo mapper work without gps?
Nov 03 18:19:11 <Jiten> rubiks: yes
Nov 03 18:19:26 <rubiks> nice downloading...
Nov 03 18:19:50 <Jiten> of course, it won't be able to tell you where you are without it though :)
Nov 03 18:20:00 <Jiten> but you can look at maps, plan routes and such
Nov 03 18:20:29 <rubiks> gotcha
Nov 03 18:20:33 <sp3000> yeah if it had an ambient light sensor it could at least tell you if you're in finland
Nov 03 18:20:57 <rubiks> i hope nokia will drop the price on rhe gps kit
Nov 03 18:22:24 <alterego> Why get the nokia kit?
Nov 03 18:22:40 <alterego> You can pick up a BT GPS for ~70 USD
Nov 03 18:23:27 <rubiks> o really?
Nov 03 18:23:57 <alterego> Probably less if you look in the right place.
Nov 03 18:24:23 <alterego> All you need is a BT GPS receiver and then you can use maemo mapper :)
Nov 03 18:24:34 <rubiks> mapper needs two libs
Nov 03 18:24:50 <alterego> ?
Nov 03 18:25:34 <rubiks> maemo mapper
Nov 03 18:25:35 <_Monkey> i heard maemo mapper was geographical mapping software specifically designed for the Maemo platform and the Nokia 770/N800 form factor. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/maemo-mapper/
Nov 03 18:26:50 <rubiks> version 1.4
Nov 03 18:26:53 <rubiks> ?
Nov 03 18:29:25 <alterego> Oh, that's weird.
Nov 03 18:29:33 <alterego> The segfault wasn't even in the SDK ^_^
Nov 03 18:29:47 <alterego> More of a relief actually.
Nov 03 18:30:06 <rubiks> libxau0 libgdbm3
Nov 03 18:30:26 <rubiks> mapper needs those libs
Nov 03 18:38:13 <L0cutus> where is the right place to autostart a dyndns daemon on n800 ?
Nov 03 18:38:36 <L0cutus> must i create an init.d script ?
Nov 03 18:40:07 <alterego> L0cutus, I'd say so, unless you want to start it manually.
Nov 03 18:41:06 <L0cutus> is possible to enable/disable autostart ?
Nov 03 18:41:26 <L0cutus> mm i think i must 'study a bit ubuntu & debian startup scripts :)
Nov 03 18:47:20 <rubiks> anybody got scratches on their screen protector?
Nov 03 18:50:03 <legind> L0cutus, create a script: /etc/init.d/somecommands
Nov 03 18:50:32 <legind> L0cutus, then you have to determine at which stage or 'runlevel' you want the commands to be run
Nov 03 18:51:20 <legind> L0cutus, http://www.help2go.com/Tutorials/Linux%10UNIX/Linux_Runlevels.html this URL explains what runlevels are
Nov 03 18:53:04 <legind> L0cutus, when you determine that, you have to create a symbolic link: /etc/rc< run level>.d/S< some number between 10 and 99 >somecommand
Nov 03 18:54:32 <legind> L0cutus, the command would be somethign like: ln -s /etc/init.d/somescript /etc/rc4.d/S44somescript
Nov 03 18:58:49 <L0cutus> thanks legind
Nov 03 18:59:05 <legind> np
Nov 03 18:59:19 <L0cutus> i have found also an howto that use 'update-rc.d '
Nov 03 18:59:43 <legind> is there any music player for the n800 that doesn't database the files, but just plays them, similar to xmms or beep-media-player or winamp
Nov 03 19:00:10 <L0cutus> mplayer ?
Nov 03 19:00:11 <_Monkey> mplayer is down, that's what's up
Nov 03 19:01:30 <legind> is that command line driven
Nov 03 19:01:38 <legind> or does it have a nice gui
Nov 03 19:02:25 <L0cutus> cmdline
Nov 03 19:02:40 <L0cutus> but i've see there is also kmplayer
Nov 03 19:02:48 <L0cutus> that have a little gui
Nov 03 19:05:54 <legind> hm but it looks like I can't play more than one song at a time?
Nov 03 19:06:30 <legind> play=add
Nov 03 19:06:51 <L0cutus> yes...
Nov 03 19:07:00 <L0cutus> no playlist
Nov 03 19:08:07 <amr> with kagu can you actually just play 'all songs'
Nov 03 19:08:12 <amr> instead of adding each one to a playlist
Nov 03 19:08:15 <amr> its kind of annoying
Nov 03 19:11:10 <L0cutus> time to go home, cul8r
Nov 03 19:20:53 <Deformati> Are there any apps that provide something like palm's todo list?
Nov 03 19:22:06 <kulve> I would hope google does todo-list and integrates it with the calendar :)
Nov 03 19:23:22 <Deformati> Yeah, but for now, I am looking for an app for maemo.
Nov 03 19:26:12 <Deformati> Anyone?
Nov 03 19:36:15 <Jaffa> Deformati: GPE Todo works well-enough
Nov 03 19:36:25 <Deformati> GPE?
Nov 03 19:36:25 <_Monkey> GPE is an environment kind of like Maemo
Nov 03 19:37:29 <Jaffa> _Monkey: useless
Nov 03 19:37:29 <_Monkey> Jaffa: sorry...
Nov 03 19:37:46 <lopz> brb
Nov 03 19:37:58 <Jaffa> Deformati: As well as being a full-blown palmtop environment, it's PIM suite has been ported to Maemo and features Contacts, Calendar and Todo
Nov 03 19:38:44 <Deformati> Interesting.
Nov 03 19:53:38 <kpel> hi all
Nov 03 19:55:42 <legind> is there any maemo media player anyone knows of that just gives you the option to "add folder"
Nov 03 19:57:17 <Deformati> Hmm, I wonder why I cannot copy anything via usb to my 770.
Nov 03 19:57:20 <Deformati> It never seems to work.
Nov 03 20:04:01 <hillct> legind: adding directories is of course a function of file mangement not a media player. GPE file manager does a nice job of offering display/manipulation of the full filesystem
Nov 03 20:05:02 <hillct> that said, mPlayer seems to allow some basic directory management
Nov 03 20:05:46 <alterego> He means add directory to playlist.
Nov 03 20:39:34 <alterego> @windows << @program.add_window(Hildon::Window.new)
Nov 03 20:39:36 <alterego> That's neat.
Nov 03 20:40:31 <Jaffa> Indeed. What's performance like compared with Python/C on an N800?
Nov 03 20:41:09 <alterego> It's supposedly similar to Python.
Nov 03 20:41:48 <alterego> Start up times aren't great. If you need to speed certain parts of your program up though it's easy to integrate with C code.
Nov 03 20:42:18 <alterego> When I've finished "XML Editor" you can give it a whirl and see for yourself :)
Nov 03 20:42:32 <Jaffa> Runtime performance doesn't bother me for too much stuff. Startup time being as quick as possible is important for user experience though. Already, too many C apps on Maemo are too slow to start :-(
Nov 03 20:42:44 <alterego> Yeah
Nov 03 20:42:48 <Jaffa> alterego: making sure your bindings don't have any busywait loops, I hope ;-)
Nov 03 20:42:57 <alterego> Heh
Nov 03 20:43:07 <alterego> My bindings are speedy.
Nov 03 20:43:20 <alterego> I'm not sure what's causing slow start ups.
Nov 03 20:43:34 <alterego> I'll do some experimentation some time in the week.
Nov 03 20:43:37 * Jaffa fancies playing with it. I've got Programming Rails on my bookshelf I've not properly got into yet, and prefer Grails and/or Struts to Rails.
Nov 03 20:44:02 <alterego> Have you read the pickaxe book?
Nov 03 20:44:27 <Jaffa> First few chapters. I need something practical to get my teeth into, though.
Nov 03 20:44:32 <alterego> I might do a Rails package, but I don't know.
Nov 03 20:45:06 <alterego> I don't really see the benifit. Sure, I do the occasional rails hacks on my tablet, but logged into a development server.
Nov 03 20:45:13 <alterego> I don't see a need to have it actually installed on the device.
Nov 03 20:45:24 <bedboi> so the developer program application is closed
Nov 03 20:45:40 <alterego> Yup :)
Nov 03 20:45:43 <Jaffa> bedboi: oh yeah
Nov 03 20:46:00 <alterego> Surely not long now.
Nov 03 20:46:08 * Jaffa crosses fingers.
Nov 03 20:46:22 <bedboi> Jaffa: me too.
Nov 03 20:46:39 * alterego isn't very superstitious
Nov 03 20:47:05 <bedboi> is there any information about the number of applicants?
Nov 03 20:48:07 <Jaffa> Presumably, it's higher than the N800 programme's applicant count
Nov 03 20:49:14 <alterego> Well, does it matter?
Nov 03 20:49:32 <alterego> I guess a great deal of people applied. As it was open to people other than devs.
Nov 03 20:50:19 <Jaffa> According to game theory, yes. Unless all the people who've applied are less "worthy" than you, the number of applicants is related to your chances of success (probably not directly proportional).
Nov 03 20:51:01 <Jaffa> But you're right in that it's not possible to change the outcome by worrying about it (not that I am: I'm happy with my N800 enough - IT OS 2008 is the more exciting thing, I think).
Nov 03 20:51:07 <alterego> Okay, assume that at least 350 devs applied ;)
Nov 03 20:51:35 <alterego> Yeah, I can't wait for 2008 :)
Nov 03 20:51:35 <Jaffa> And, having 60ukp spare means more likely to get an Eee (although as a toy, rather than as a luxury item like my N800)
Nov 03 20:51:44 <Jaffa> TV time.
Nov 03 20:51:54 <alterego> Eee?
Nov 03 20:51:54 <_Monkey> Eee is, like, a freaking laptop
Nov 03 20:52:04 <alterego> O_O
Nov 03 20:56:05 <skibur> where can I buy an official screen protector screen for my nokia?
Nov 03 20:56:20 <alterego> Official?
Nov 03 20:56:32 <alterego> Well .. You can buy a new N800
Nov 03 20:56:40 <alterego> They come with official screen protectors.
Nov 03 20:57:40 <skibur> ?
Nov 03 20:57:57 <skibur> I have it on and it scratches pretty easy
Nov 03 20:58:05 <alterego> Yeah, mines covered.
Nov 03 20:58:13 <alterego> There are plenty of places to get replacements.
Nov 03 20:58:25 <alterego> I don't see why "official" is important,.
Nov 03 20:58:38 <skibur> agree
Nov 03 20:58:46 <skibur> looking for something really good
Nov 03 20:59:06 <alterego> Someone posted a link yesterday that looked impressive.
Nov 03 20:59:11 <alterego> Hang on I'll see if I can pull it up.
Nov 03 21:00:26 <alterego> skibur, http://www.shieldzone.com/item_description/NOKN800.html
Nov 03 21:00:44 <skibur> thanks
Nov 03 21:02:23 <p|> re
Nov 03 21:31:37 <skibur> I can't access root?
Nov 03 21:31:44 <skibur> xterm  su applet?
Nov 03 21:31:59 <alterego> The root password is by default 'rootme'
Nov 03 21:32:02 <alterego> SSH in and change it.
Nov 03 21:32:14 <alterego> root
Nov 03 21:32:20 <alterego> gainroot
Nov 03 21:32:21 <_Monkey> gainroot is a quick howto to become root here http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot  and more information is here http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot
Nov 03 21:32:25 <alterego> There's another way.
Nov 03 21:37:01 <alterego> Heh, GtkTreeView is still pretty complicated in Ruby ^_^
Nov 03 21:39:08 <hillct> can someone explain to me the point of 'gainroot' over the simpler and far more standard method of editing /etc/sudoers ?
Nov 03 21:39:41 <alterego> Not me :)
Nov 03 21:47:35 <timelyx> _Monkey forget eee
Nov 03 21:47:35 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot eee
Nov 03 21:47:39 <timelyx> _Monkey eee is <reply>
Nov 03 21:47:40 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 03 21:47:43 <timelyx> _Monkey useless is <reply>
Nov 03 21:47:44 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 03 21:48:42 <alterego> I don't believe it.
Nov 03 21:48:57 <alterego> You don't even get the arrows in OS2008?!
Nov 03 21:49:09 <timelyx> alterego: eh?
Nov 03 21:49:17 <alterego> GtkTreeView's ..
Nov 03 21:49:30 <alterego> I'm going to have to resort to some kind of theme hack I guess.
Nov 03 21:49:34 <timelyx> picture.draw_for(timeless)
Nov 03 21:49:57 <alterego> Either that write some code to make pretty icons appear.
Nov 03 21:50:05 <kpel> can someone ssh to the tablet as a user?
Nov 03 21:50:05 <alterego> The later will be more effort though.
Nov 03 21:50:12 <skibur> wow
Nov 03 21:50:15 <skibur> mc
Nov 03 21:50:16 <skibur> nice
Nov 03 21:50:19 <timelyx> kpel: if you create a normal user and assign a password, sure
Nov 03 21:50:32 <timelyx> otherwise, by default, "user" will reject ssh attempts (lacking a password?)
Nov 03 21:50:52 <tigert> what arrows?
Nov 03 21:50:57 <timelyx> by default if you install sshd, you can ssh as root to the device...
Nov 03 21:51:12 <alterego> I just installed an ssh key into the 'user' account to allow logins from my laptop.
Nov 03 21:51:18 <alterego> I also set the root password.
Nov 03 21:51:40 <kpel> can i assign a password to user using passwd?
Nov 03 21:51:54 <timelyx> i don't see why it wouldn't work
Nov 03 21:51:58 <timelyx> although i wouldn't recommend it
Nov 03 21:51:59 <alterego> No, you can't assign a password to the 'user' account.
Nov 03 21:52:02 <timelyx> an ssh key makes a lot more sense
Nov 03 21:52:14 <tigert> its more or less regular linux under the hood anyway
Nov 03 21:52:32 <alterego> Well .. You just try setting a password for 'user' and see what happens :P
Nov 03 21:52:32 <kpel> ok thanks
Nov 03 21:52:33 <tigert> most things you think of "do work" at least somewhat
Nov 03 21:52:43 <timelyx> most things break somewhat :)
Nov 03 21:52:43 <tigert> of course stuff can also break if you do silly things
Nov 03 21:52:48 <tigert> exactly
Nov 03 21:52:54 <tigert> but like,
Nov 03 21:52:59 <timelyx> tigert: wanna try maps w/ a r/o mmc?
Nov 03 21:53:07 <tigert> cd /home/user/; mkdir .fonts
Nov 03 21:53:09 <timelyx> it's um... not a particularly pleasant experience
Nov 03 21:53:14 <tigert> cp the MS web fonts there
Nov 03 21:53:14 <tigert> etc
Nov 03 21:53:16 <tigert> that works
Nov 03 21:53:16 <p|> how can i share a package that i have recompiled for armel ?
Nov 03 21:53:26 <alterego> Cool.
Nov 03 21:53:27 <timelyx> "share"?
Nov 03 21:53:43 <alterego> p|, make a garage project. Stick it in some private space.
Nov 03 21:53:47 <alterego> How ever you like.
Nov 03 21:54:19 <Jaffa> _Monkey: eee is the Asus Eee PC is a tiny, cheap, Linux-powered x86 laptop: http://eeepc.asus.com/
Nov 03 21:54:19 <_Monkey> ...but eee is <reply>...
Nov 03 21:54:25 <Jaffa> _Monkey: forget eee
Nov 03 21:54:25 <_Monkey> Jaffa: I forgot eee
Nov 03 21:54:26 <Jaffa> _Monkey: eee is the Asus Eee PC is a tiny, cheap, Linux-powered x86 laptop: http://eeepc.asus.com/
Nov 03 21:54:27 <_Monkey> OK, Jaffa.
Nov 03 21:54:45 <timelyx> Jaffa: oh sure, fill _Monkey with useful data, why don't you...
Nov 03 21:54:52 <alterego> Heh
Nov 03 21:55:00 <Jaffa> timelyx: it won't happen again ;-)
Nov 03 21:55:04 <Jaffa> _Monkey: foo is bar
Nov 03 21:55:04 <_Monkey> OK, Jaffa.
Nov 03 21:55:15 <tigert> eee?
Nov 03 21:55:16 <_Monkey> eee is probably the Asus Eee PC is a tiny, cheap, Linux-powered x86 laptop: http://eeepc.asus.com/
Nov 03 21:55:25 <tigert> eeek
Nov 03 21:55:40 <Jaffa> Not even _Monkey's *that* dumb ;-)
Nov 03 21:55:57 <timelyx> just you wait enry iggins!
Nov 03 21:56:29 * timelyx wonders how to pronounce that in en-FI or en-CZ ?
Nov 03 21:56:46 <alterego> Neat.
Nov 03 21:56:51 <alterego> How much are they going to cost?
Nov 03 21:56:54 <timelyx> Jaffa / tigert: do you two get the reference?
Nov 03 21:57:19 <Jaffa> alterego: On sale in the UK for Â230ukp incl. postage. i.e. about $400 and *cheaper* than an N810
Nov 03 21:57:27 <Jaffa> timelyx: rings a bell, but I can't place it.
Nov 03 21:57:35 <alterego> Interesting.
Nov 03 21:57:57 <alterego> Are they hackable?
Nov 03 21:58:01 * timelyx busy 'aits on tigert
Nov 03 21:58:19 <Jaffa> alterego: indeed. Someone installed straight Ubuntu on one. You can even install XP if you like.
Nov 03 21:58:29 <alterego> Can't find a spec :/
Nov 03 21:58:29 <Jaffa> Runs KDE by default off a Xandros-based distro.
Nov 03 21:58:54 <Jaffa> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASUS_Eee_PC
Nov 03 21:58:55 <alterego> Yuk
Nov 03 21:59:14 <legind> is there any equivalent to cron that comes with maemo?
Nov 03 21:59:21 <tigert> timelyx: had to resort to google :/
Nov 03 21:59:30 <Jaffa> legind: there's an alarm API, but no cron implementation which uses that API (yet)
Nov 03 21:59:32 <Jaffa> AFAIK.
Nov 03 21:59:36 <legind> i'm just wondering how /tmp gets dumped
Nov 03 21:59:47 <legind> and how often
Nov 03 21:59:49 <tigert> timelyx: but it reminded me of "pahk the cah on the havahd yahd"
Nov 03 21:59:58 <timelyx> heh
Nov 03 22:00:01 <Jaffa> timelyx: Ah, of course. My Fair Lady.
Nov 03 22:00:24 <Jaffa> and/or Pygma(e?)lion
Nov 03 22:00:37 <timelyx> Jaffa: for another one which some origins don't recognize, http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/138/
Nov 03 22:00:58 <timelyx> it's sad, i wrote that on friday, but when i showed it to a coworker, i realized that she wouldn't get it
Nov 03 22:01:13 <alterego> Ugly XP theme.
Nov 03 22:01:46 <Jaffa> alterego: meh, software's hackable. Hardware's cheap. Smaller than a Psion netBook. What's not to like?
Nov 03 22:02:09 <tigert> timelyx: well, you pretty much could expect that
Nov 03 22:02:15 <timelyx> tigert: yeah sure
Nov 03 22:02:17 <tigert> timelyx: it was stretching waaaay too many cultural boundaries
Nov 03 22:02:20 <suihkulokki> Jaffa: display resolution/dpi
Nov 03 22:02:38 <Jaffa> suihkulokki: 800x480, 7" diagonal, IIRC.
Nov 03 22:02:42 <suihkulokki> other than that, very attractive
Nov 03 22:02:44 <timelyx> but it's easier for me to expect you not to recognize my fair lady
Nov 03 22:02:46 <tigert> timelyx: it made me realize we assume things too easily
Nov 03 22:02:54 <timelyx> than it is for me to realize that she wouldn't get it
Nov 03 22:02:56 <tigert> timelyx: havent read it
Nov 03 22:03:03 * timelyx nods
Nov 03 22:03:06 <alterego> Yeah
Nov 03 22:03:09 <timelyx> watch the movie
Nov 03 22:03:11 <alterego> That resolution is a push.
Nov 03 22:03:29 <alterego> If it was touch screen I'd stick maemo on it.
Nov 03 22:03:43 <Jaffa> alterego: indeed. I believe you can get more usable info on a 7" 800x480 screen than you can on a 4" 800x480 screen, though.
Nov 03 22:03:55 <Jaffa> alterego: I'd still be tempted to play with Hildon on it.
Nov 03 22:03:56 <alterego> I don't see how.
Nov 03 22:04:08 <alterego> Yeah, Hildon would suit it fine.
Nov 03 22:04:16 <alterego> That's what it's designed for after all ;)
Nov 03 22:04:26 <tigert> timelyx: I will watch that, if you watch this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048752/
Nov 03 22:04:27 <timelyx> tigert: it's sad though, you'd think by now, i'd know better
Nov 03 22:04:33 <alterego> Would make a good device for those Ubuntu mobile kids.
Nov 03 22:04:59 <timelyx> i mean, i have learned that people don't know translations for animals/vegetables
Nov 03 22:05:01 * timelyx grumbles
Nov 03 22:05:15 <tigert> timelyx: for some vegetables or animals
Nov 03 22:05:17 <timelyx> well, i sort of know "don't bother asking a local: what's this fish?"
Nov 03 22:05:21 <tigert> everyone knows what an apple or orange is
Nov 03 22:05:27 <timelyx> i'm lucky if they'll say "it's white"
Nov 03 22:05:27 <tigert> pomegranate or such is harder already :)
Nov 03 22:05:34 <Jaffa> alterego: the pixels are bigger so you don't need as many to form a recognisable glyph. See, for example, how much more info you can see on a Psion netBook's ~7" 640x480 screen than you can on an N800's 800x480 screen (without straining your eyes). Obviously, some people's eyesight is better than others, but...
Nov 03 22:05:59 <alterego> I think I'll wait to see what they do with it.
Nov 03 22:06:11 <tigert> Jaffa: yeah, design for physical size is what we've been pondering a lot lately
Nov 03 22:06:20 <alterego> Mainly the new devices they're saying wil be released in April next year
Nov 03 22:06:29 <timelyx> tigert:
Nov 03 22:06:31 <timelyx> Plot Synopsis:
Nov 03 22:06:31 <timelyx> This plot synopsis is empty. Add a synopsis
Nov 03 22:06:34 <alterego> With lower power CPU's which means they can remove the Fan.
Nov 03 22:06:36 <tigert> timelyx: war story
Nov 03 22:06:38 <alterego> Then I'd think about getting one.
Nov 03 22:06:52 <Jaffa> tigert: oh? intriguing.
Nov 03 22:06:55 <tigert> timelyx: its THE finnish WW II movie
Nov 03 22:06:56 <timelyx> tigert: you have it? i'll watch, but if it isn't available in English, you get to translate :)
Nov 03 22:07:05 <tigert> timelyx: I would guess it is subtitled
Nov 03 22:07:12 <tigert> the dvd got to exist in somewhere
Nov 03 22:07:14 <tigert> lets find one
Nov 03 22:07:24 <lopz> re
Nov 03 22:07:41 <tigert> Jaffa: thats what ubuntu mobile needs to do too, if they want to support different devices and different screens
Nov 03 22:07:51 <tigert> Jaffa: and it is hard with pixmap theming :P
Nov 03 22:08:04 * timelyx shoots our themers ;-)
Nov 03 22:08:17 <tigert> though I guess one could render the svg theme template to different size and transform the coordinates
Nov 03 22:08:20 <timelyx> it's ok. you're so far down the line, i won't have ammo by the time i reach you :)
Nov 03 22:08:23 <tigert> that would be pretty interesting thing to try btw
Nov 03 22:08:30 <tigert> to scale the whole ui in build time
Nov 03 22:08:46 <tigert> timelyx: hey, shoot Tommi :)
Nov 03 22:08:57 <tigert> he created it
Nov 03 22:09:01 <timelyx> tigert: i think i'd run out of bullets if i started with maps
Nov 03 22:09:11 <tigert> or was part of it, I am just trying to keep it running with michael
Nov 03 22:09:17 <tigert> anyway
Nov 03 22:09:22 <tigert> back to weekend :D
Nov 03 22:09:28 <alterego> Keep what running?
Nov 03 22:09:32 <timelyx> theming
Nov 03 22:09:43 <alterego> Eesh, maemo theming is a mess :P
Nov 03 22:09:54 <timelyx> alterego: that's on a good day
Nov 03 22:09:58 <alterego> Hah
Nov 03 22:10:10 <tigert> timelyx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkctbhkGvE :)
Nov 03 22:10:20 <tigert> timelyx: no subtitles though, so it'll be gibberish for you
Nov 03 22:10:35 <timelyx> ok, you get to translate
Nov 03 22:10:41 <timelyx> i'll buy the popcorn, dinner, drinks, whatever
Nov 03 22:10:52 <tigert> hehe
Nov 03 22:10:53 <zerojay> Sounds like fun.
Nov 03 22:10:57 <tigert> I mean, this youtube link
Nov 03 22:11:01 <tigert> I am pretty sure the dvd has
Nov 03 22:11:03 <zerojay> Send me the plane tickets. :)
Nov 03 22:11:38 <timelyx> zerojay: i can offer a place to sleep, but tickets are moderately pricy
Nov 03 22:11:51 * timelyx is still stinging from 2 days w/o credit
Nov 03 22:12:00 <alterego> For instance, what on earth is with no expand/colapse indicators in the tree view?
Nov 03 22:12:18 <timelyx> you mean things that'd typically be +/- on some platforms?
Nov 03 22:12:20 <alterego> It's annoying me now >:(
Nov 03 22:12:29 <alterego> What should be arrows in Gtk.
Nov 03 22:12:36 <alterego> Well, triangles.
Nov 03 22:12:43 <timelyx> we have them integrated into the icons
Nov 03 22:12:46 <timelyx> it's a space thing
Nov 03 22:12:54 <alterego> O_o
Nov 03 22:13:05 <timelyx> look at the root device
Nov 03 22:13:15 <tigert> alterego: forget trees anyway :P
Nov 03 22:13:17 <alterego> Can't you leave that choice to the application developers?
Nov 03 22:13:17 <timelyx> or the documents folder if you have a folder in it
Nov 03 22:13:19 <tigert> too small on the screen :(
Nov 03 22:13:32 <timelyx> alterego: they're trying to kill trees
Nov 03 22:13:38 <timelyx> and given how horribly slow they are
Nov 03 22:13:40 <alterego> Who're they?
Nov 03 22:13:41 <timelyx> you shouldn't use them ;-)
Nov 03 22:13:47 <tigert> well
Nov 03 22:13:51 <timelyx> desktop/ui engs
Nov 03 22:13:55 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 03 22:14:02 <timelyx> i can't give a list of names, that's probably a secret :)
Nov 03 22:14:03 <alterego> Got a better idea for displaying a tree?
Nov 03 22:14:05 <tigert> gtktreeview is one insane widget
Nov 03 22:14:13 <tigert> alterego: what app is this?
Nov 03 22:14:22 <timelyx> what are you trying to show?
Nov 03 22:14:25 <alterego> I need something to display a DOM
Nov 03 22:14:35 <timelyx> g-d
Nov 03 22:14:36 <tigert> on the N800??
Nov 03 22:14:40 <alterego> Obviously.
Nov 03 22:14:42 <tigert> wtf are you doing?= :)
Nov 03 22:14:52 <timelyx> 1. install cairo
Nov 03 22:14:54 <Stalwart> web development i guess
Nov 03 22:14:55 <alterego> I'm writing an XML editor :P
Nov 03 22:15:00 <timelyx> 2. rotate the screen 90 degrees
Nov 03 22:15:08 <zerojay> in ruby?
Nov 03 22:15:10 <tigert> alterego: why do you want to edit xml on a handheld?
Nov 03 22:15:14 <alterego> zerojay, naturally.
Nov 03 22:15:21 <alterego> tigert, why wouldn't I?
Nov 03 22:15:38 <timelyx> alterego: no one in their right mind would want to edit xml anywhere
Nov 03 22:15:45 <Stalwart> tigert, you want him to install eclipse on n800? :D
Nov 03 22:15:50 <alterego> Well, that I can sympathise with ;)
Nov 03 22:16:02 <timelyx> Stalwart: will he port java for us first?
Nov 03 22:16:05 <timelyx> sounds good to me
Nov 03 22:16:11 <Stalwart> timelyx, isn't it possible?
Nov 03 22:16:11 <zerojay> No, please.
Nov 03 22:16:11 <alterego> I'm developing in the maemo 4 SDK anyhow. So cairo is already here :P
Nov 03 22:16:31 <zerojay> Eclipse 5 days a week is enough for me as is.
Nov 03 22:16:32 <timelyx> alterego: seriously, you want to use the screen that way, not the default way
Nov 03 22:16:34 <alterego> God, I'm the ruby-maemo guy. I'm not going to touch Java :P
Nov 03 22:16:40 <alterego> Scheme is my next goal ^_^
Nov 03 22:17:01 <alterego> timelyx, is that even possible with maemo?
Nov 03 22:17:10 <timelyx> anything's possible w/ cairo
Nov 03 22:17:16 <timelyx> but you're basically drawing w/ cairo
Nov 03 22:17:19 <alterego> Does maemo4 support it?
Nov 03 22:17:21 <timelyx> full screen, manual drawing
Nov 03 22:17:28 <alterego> :/
Nov 03 22:17:29 <Stalwart> anything is possible on zombo.com (c) #fedora
Nov 03 22:17:30 <timelyx> maemo1 supports full screen apps
Nov 03 22:17:30 <alterego> Screw that.
Nov 03 22:17:51 <alterego> I meant screen rotation. Which isn't what you're talkinga bout at all :P
Nov 03 22:17:56 <timelyx> maemo15 might support long displays
Nov 03 22:18:08 <Stalwart> 15? o.O
Nov 03 22:18:08 <timelyx> or rotated, however you want to think about it
Nov 03 22:18:15 <timelyx> expect it to be ready by 2030
Nov 03 22:18:22 <Stalwart> i guess maemo15 will support neural connections :D
Nov 03 22:18:31 <alterego> Heh.
Nov 03 22:18:36 <alterego> Wouldn't take me that long ..
Nov 03 22:18:38 <timelyx> Stalwart: frying them maybe
Nov 03 22:18:51 <Stalwart> then you'll be able to get zombo.com right in YOUR BRAIN
Nov 03 22:19:02 <Stalwart> a thing to dream of
Nov 03 22:19:13 <timelyx> alterego: actually rotation is wishlisted
Nov 03 22:19:26 <timelyx> with a lot of luck, prayers, and better hardware, it could be here in 10 years :)
Nov 03 22:19:34 <alterego> Rubbish.
Nov 03 22:19:43 <alterego> You could do it in a couple of months if you wanted to.
Nov 03 22:19:54 <tigert> alterego: you could do a nice xml editor in the ipod ui way :)
Nov 03 22:19:55 <timelyx> i'm a browser engineer, i couldn't :)
Nov 03 22:20:01 <tigert> just browse through the tree :)
Nov 03 22:20:03 <alterego> ipod UI?
Nov 03 22:20:16 <alterego> I don't have an iPod.
Nov 03 22:20:20 <tigert> ie, finger-pressable menu structure without a real tree,
Nov 03 22:20:25 <timelyx> basically you only see one level at a time
Nov 03 22:20:29 <timelyx> to go down, you go right
Nov 03 22:20:32 <timelyx> to go up, you go left
Nov 03 22:20:33 <alterego> Oh, a menu.
Nov 03 22:20:34 <_Monkey> well, a menu is on the keyboard
Nov 03 22:20:34 <tigert> but just press a node and it scrolls right to open the child :)
Nov 03 22:20:35 <tigert> etc
Nov 03 22:20:43 <timelyx> _Monkey forget menu
Nov 03 22:20:44 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot menu
Nov 03 22:20:44 <alterego> I think I'll do something similar to the media player in maemo.
Nov 03 22:20:45 <zerojay> _Monkey: STFU
Nov 03 22:20:45 <_Monkey> zerojay: huh?
Nov 03 22:20:46 <Stalwart> not usable
Nov 03 22:20:47 <timelyx> _Monkey menu is <reply>
Nov 03 22:20:47 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 03 22:20:55 <alterego> A menu with a path area at the top.
Nov 03 22:20:58 <timelyx> _Monkey stfu is <reply> yes sir
Nov 03 22:20:58 <tigert> then on a leaf you could have "edit" etc :)
Nov 03 22:20:59 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 03 22:21:03 <alterego> Kind of like: http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk
Nov 03 22:21:14 <zerojay> from now on, I'm just going to make Monkey forget everything when it speaks.
Nov 03 22:21:17 <timelyx> tigert: too bad you need to be able to edit non leafs
Nov 03 22:21:20 <alterego> I like that path bar ..
Nov 03 22:21:28 <tigert> timelyx: perhaps it could have a small toolbar with few buttons
Nov 03 22:21:41 <tigert> alterego: yeah, something like that site
Nov 03 22:21:58 <timelyx> alterego: be warned
Nov 03 22:22:03 <timelyx> xml node names can be fairly wide :)
Nov 03 22:22:07 <suihkulokki> I love how neither ipod nor ipod touch ui have absolutely no popup/transistent windows
Nov 03 22:22:13 <tigert> you want to truncate with ellipsis ;D
Nov 03 22:22:24 <timelyx> suihkulokki: designed by people with common sense
Nov 03 22:22:37 <timelyx> that's why we think different :)
Nov 03 22:22:38 <tigert> alterego: the problem with most N800 apps is
Nov 03 22:22:43 <tigert> they are trying to be like on the desktop
Nov 03 22:22:49 <tigert> but the screen is way too small for that
Nov 03 22:22:52 <timelyx> tigert: eh
Nov 03 22:22:58 <tigert> and you get fooled by the resolution to think its bigger
Nov 03 22:23:04 <timelyx> we have more dialogs/info things than any desktop i've ever met
Nov 03 22:23:17 <tigert> timelyx: my point exactly :)
Nov 03 22:23:30 <timelyx> it got worse w/ n810
Nov 03 22:23:31 <tigert> and hey
Nov 03 22:23:33 <timelyx> namely map.
Nov 03 22:23:35 <alterego> I'm aware of the constraints :P
Nov 03 22:23:35 * timelyx sighs
Nov 03 22:23:39 <tigert> its a *mobile* device
Nov 03 22:23:45 <timelyx> alterego: clearly the ui people weren't
Nov 03 22:23:47 <tigert> what freaks me out a bit very often
Nov 03 22:23:48 <alterego> Maybe you're right.
Nov 03 22:23:57 <tigert> is when people seem to just use it on their desk next to the laptop
Nov 03 22:24:00 <alterego> I should just use a jazzy menu syste,
Nov 03 22:24:04 <alterego> ~system.
Nov 03 22:24:09 <tigert> and think its cool to make it work like their laptop
Nov 03 22:24:15 <timelyx> tigert: we want to sell it as a replacement for laptops
Nov 03 22:24:21 <tigert> but its a fscking MOBILE device
Nov 03 22:24:25 <timelyx> somehow nokia managed to get a laptop award with it...
Nov 03 22:24:28 * timelyx grumbles
Nov 03 22:24:28 <tigert> no we dont
Nov 03 22:24:42 <alterego> I use it for internet.
Nov 03 22:24:45 <timelyx> tigert: we = some manager above osso
Nov 03 22:24:45 <alterego> d
Nov 03 22:24:46 <timelyx> L(
Nov 03 22:24:48 <tigert> the fact its listed on amazon as top selling laptop is not a reason to think of it as one :D
Nov 03 22:24:49 <timelyx> :)
Nov 03 22:25:04 <tigert> sure, its a *computer* and not a phone, yeah yeah
Nov 03 22:25:07 <tigert> but it is a *mobile* thing
Nov 03 22:25:17 <timelyx> tigert: people clearly didn't get that memo :(
Nov 03 22:25:18 <tigert> you dont really do the same things on a mobile device
Nov 03 22:25:30 <alterego> I use it for surfing, and IM
Nov 03 22:25:32 <zerojay> It's cut the amount of time I spend on my PC by about 60%. It's getting lonely.
Nov 03 22:25:33 <tigert> you go on the bus, you chat with a friend on IM
Nov 03 22:25:38 <alterego> It's also my portable media player.
Nov 03 22:25:40 <tigert> you check directions to his home
Nov 03 22:25:41 <alterego> And email client.
Nov 03 22:25:44 <tigert> to see him for dinner
Nov 03 22:25:45 <tigert> etc
Nov 03 22:25:46 <zerojay> same here.
Nov 03 22:25:51 <tigert> you listen to music / webradio
Nov 03 22:25:55 <tigert> on the starbucks
Nov 03 22:25:57 <tigert> etc
Nov 03 22:25:59 <alterego> I read PDF's on it and I use it to make notes.
Nov 03 22:25:59 <tigert> or whatever
Nov 03 22:26:00 <_Monkey> whatever is fun for you.  More power to ya
Nov 03 22:26:06 <tigert> but its not something you HACK on
Nov 03 22:26:07 <tigert> :)
Nov 03 22:26:07 <timelyx> _Monkey forget whatever
Nov 03 22:26:08 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot whatever
Nov 03 22:26:10 <timelyx> _Monkey whatever is <reply>
Nov 03 22:26:11 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx.
Nov 03 22:26:25 <alterego> Sometimes I have to hack through it.
Nov 03 22:26:30 <zerojay> Would "forget *" work?
Nov 03 22:26:32 <tigert> its fun for us, the geeks, to do things like this
Nov 03 22:26:35 <timelyx> no
Nov 03 22:26:40 <zerojay> Damn.
Nov 03 22:26:42 <tigert> but it really makes more sense to use it as a mobile communication tool
Nov 03 22:26:47 <timelyx> zerojay: you can grep through logs
Nov 03 22:26:53 <timelyx> it's easy to recognize when it learned something
Nov 03 22:26:55 <tigert> I love the thing while I commute to work
Nov 03 22:26:58 <timelyx> i've done that once or twice
Nov 03 22:27:09 <tigert> same thing applies to bluetooth keyboards and such
Nov 03 22:27:12 <timelyx> you can see me do it when all of a sudden i start telling it to forget things w/o context
Nov 03 22:27:16 <tigert> try to use those while standing in a train
Nov 03 22:27:47 <timelyx> tigert: you must be confused
Nov 03 22:27:50 <timelyx> i always sit on trains :)
Nov 03 22:27:57 <tigert> bluetooth keyboard is teh insanity and should be just destroyed from the face of earth :)
Nov 03 22:28:04 <timelyx> of course, then i just use my laptop :)
Nov 03 22:28:30 <tigert> timelyx: yeah but not on commuter trains I guess?
Nov 03 22:28:44 <zerojay> The best thing about my N800 is how I sometimes get e-mail and messages without having a phone connection... just happens to connect randomly to some wifi router in the area.
Nov 03 22:28:46 <timelyx> if you mean subway/metro, maybe
Nov 03 22:28:53 <tigert> zerojay: yeah :)
Nov 03 22:28:55 <timelyx> but if the commuter train takes longer than 20mins, i'm sitting
Nov 03 22:29:03 <tigert> timelyx: sure I usually sit
Nov 03 22:29:05 <tigert> if there is space
Nov 03 22:29:20 <tigert> but I dont really use a laptop in the bus for example even when I sit
Nov 03 22:29:32 <alterego> Heh
Nov 03 22:29:41 * timelyx ndos
Nov 03 22:29:43 <timelyx> bah
Nov 03 22:29:53 <tigert> it's like sending / getting sms'es
Nov 03 22:29:56 <timelyx> anyway, on regional trains, i used to use my laptops
Nov 03 22:29:57 <tigert> but its jabber on the go
Nov 03 22:29:59 <tigert> whcih is nice
Nov 03 22:30:12 <zerojay> I was about 10 minutes away from home after leaving work early.. I got an MSN message from a coworker asking me how to commit to SVN. I told him to come to my desk. Boy was she ever fucking confused when she got there to see me not at my desk. I was sitting in a park laughing my ass off.
Nov 03 22:30:14 <tigert> timelyx: I rather not get those funny looks from people :)
Nov 03 22:30:25 <timelyx> tigert: Amtrak from DC to NY
Nov 03 22:30:26 <zerojay> told her to come to my desk.. blah.
Nov 03 22:30:28 <timelyx> you don't get funny looks
Nov 03 22:30:34 <tigert> zerojay: last week I was late from a meeting
Nov 03 22:30:39 <timelyx> you're in a car w/ a dozen or more other people doing the same thing
Nov 03 22:30:40 <tigert> a coworked msged me with the same problem
Nov 03 22:30:44 <tigert> we were on our way to work
Nov 03 22:30:51 <tigert> luckily he remembered the meeting room number
Nov 03 22:30:55 <tigert> so I got it from him while on the go
Nov 03 22:30:59 <tigert> and could go there directly
Nov 03 22:31:06 <tigert> that is what I mean
Nov 03 22:31:07 <timelyx> same along the SJ=>SF corridor
Nov 03 22:31:30 <tigert> or seeing whats going on in IRC when going off work
Nov 03 22:31:36 <tigert> to see if people are planning some beers etc
Nov 03 22:31:43 <tigert> its all about communication for me
Nov 03 22:31:47 <alterego> Or panning your demise :P
Nov 03 22:31:47 <timelyx> irc on our devices doesn't really work
Nov 03 22:31:57 <timelyx> you can't attach to a conversation already in progress w/o screen
Nov 03 22:31:57 <alterego> No, I can't dig IRC on the tablets.
Nov 03 22:31:59 <tigert> timelyx: it TOTALLY does work
Nov 03 22:32:03 <timelyx> and our behavior w/ screen is such a disaster
Nov 03 22:32:08 <tigert> you just want screen + irssi
Nov 03 22:32:12 <tigert> and ssh
Nov 03 22:32:14 <timelyx> i use that.
Nov 03 22:32:14 <alterego> It's okay with pidgin ..
Nov 03 22:32:17 <timelyx> it's a royal pain
Nov 03 22:32:22 <timelyx> otoh, i use 770/n800
Nov 03 22:32:30 <timelyx> and the stupid VKB keeps forcing full updates
Nov 03 22:32:30 <tigert> I used it on N800 a lot
Nov 03 22:32:35 <timelyx> because it pops up and then hides
Nov 03 22:32:37 <zerojay> I was sitting in a nice little park near work on a hot day... my feet in a shallow waterpool, closing bugs while bitching to coworkers about how bad some of our testers can be.
Nov 03 22:32:39 <tigert> use thumb kbd
Nov 03 22:32:40 <timelyx> and the screen constantly resizes
Nov 03 22:32:40 <zerojay> What a great day.
Nov 03 22:32:43 <zerojay> I love my N800.
Nov 03 22:33:03 <tigert> zerojay: yeah :)
Nov 03 22:33:20 <alterego> If I get another device I'll probably use it as a remote control for my N800
Nov 03 22:33:20 <timelyx> zerojay: w/ the n810 you can use it while not in the shade :)
Nov 03 22:33:27 <timelyx> or so the rumor goes
Nov 03 22:33:29 <tigert> it's this "be wherever you want, but you are around" without hauling the laptop along -thing that is nice
Nov 03 22:33:30 <timelyx> it was snowing today
Nov 03 22:33:35 <timelyx> we won't be able to test until may
Nov 03 22:33:40 <tigert> timelyx: haha
Nov 03 22:33:49 <alterego> N800 has oodles of storage capacity and makes a good media player. I'd use another tablet as a remote for it so it didn't have to come out of my trouser pocket.
Nov 03 22:33:54 <timelyx> tigert: i keep saying it, but you know it's true
Nov 03 22:34:10 <zerojay> timelyx: and without a virtual keyboard either. My N800's got light circular marks from me using the virtual keyboard so much.
Nov 03 22:34:21 <tigert> zerojay: yeah
Nov 03 22:34:24 <tigert> in a grid
Nov 03 22:34:30 <timelyx> zerojay: my 't' key is busted on my laptop
Nov 03 22:34:32 <zerojay> Staggered grid, yep.
Nov 03 22:34:32 <alterego> My screen protector is scratched to death :)
Nov 03 22:34:39 <zerojay> timelyx: Hehe. I remember.
Nov 03 22:34:55 <timelyx> i was also among the first to really wear the n800 proto screens :)
Nov 03 22:35:01 <timelyx> otoh, they claim that's "fixed"
Nov 03 22:35:10 * timelyx still hasn't installed system software w/ that "fix"
Nov 03 22:35:32 <Robot101> timelyx: it's pretty impressive difference actually
Nov 03 22:35:33 <timelyx> the fix supposedly makes web browsing (among other things) much more painful :)
Nov 03 22:35:35 <alterego> I think the scroll area is the worst for wear on my protector.
Nov 03 22:35:40 <zerojay> Every single scrach on my screen comes from the stylus.
Nov 03 22:35:43 <alterego> It doesn't bother me enough to get a new one though.
Nov 03 22:35:43 <zerojay> scratch
Nov 03 22:35:59 <alterego> Yeah, those things are sharp .. :)
Nov 03 22:36:11 <timelyx> Robot101: it wouldn't have to be a big change to be impressive
Nov 03 22:36:52 <timelyx> Robot101: but it really does cause big problems for the web browser
Nov 03 22:37:06 <tigert> I am loving the N810 keyboard though, no more resizing of THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD
Nov 03 22:37:10 <tigert> :)
Nov 03 22:37:12 <timelyx> all of a sudden, simple things like "click and hold" ...
Nov 03 22:37:20 <zerojay> I'm hoping I'll be able to get one of the discounts... even though I just found an 8GB SD card relatively cheap today. :/
Nov 03 22:37:25 <timelyx> tigert: you clearly haven't used the web browser enough
Nov 03 22:37:30 <timelyx> try loading reader.google.com
Nov 03 22:37:34 <timelyx> open the keyboard
Nov 03 22:37:37 <timelyx> type 'gu'
Nov 03 22:37:41 <timelyx> type n
Nov 03 22:37:50 <timelyx> (test on desktop first)
Nov 03 22:37:55 <tigert> timelyx: nah, the device is downstairs now :)
Nov 03 22:38:06 <timelyx> it's not in your pocket!?
Nov 03 22:38:25 <tigert> hey, I just came from sauna, and I am wearing just this nice big towel
Nov 03 22:38:27 <tigert> :)))
Nov 03 22:38:31 <zerojay> lol
Nov 03 22:38:33 <tigert> I aint got no pockets dude
Nov 03 22:38:43 <zerojay> That's what your third leg is for.
Nov 03 22:38:47 <zerojay> Hanging shit you need off of.
Nov 03 22:38:48 <tigert> and I lost a lot of weight so I couldnt keep it under "the flaps" either
Nov 03 22:38:51 * timelyx thinks tigert's problem is that his place is too big, it has stairs! 
Nov 03 22:38:53 <zerojay> Hahahaha
Nov 03 22:38:56 <zerojay> The flaps.
Nov 03 22:38:59 <tigert> :)
Nov 03 22:39:28 <alterego> Hah
Nov 03 22:39:43 <alterego> That's disturbing
Nov 03 22:40:40 <timelyx> so, i still need a link for "In the beginning"
Nov 03 22:40:45 <timelyx> i'm trying to decide if http://www.inthebeginning.org/about.html would work
Nov 03 22:40:50 <timelyx> anyone have a better suggestion?
Nov 03 22:41:04 * timelyx thinks it's actually a bad chioce
Nov 03 22:41:07 <timelyx> s/io/oi/
Nov 03 22:41:07 <infobot> timelyx meant: anyone have a better suggestoin?
Nov 03 22:41:13 <timelyx> did not!
Nov 03 22:41:35 * timelyx kicks infobot
Nov 03 22:41:50 <tigert> oh my g-d
Nov 03 22:41:51 <tigert> http://blogoscoped.com/bible/
Nov 03 22:41:55 <tigert> not this one
Nov 03 22:42:33 <timelyx> heh
Nov 03 22:43:10 <tigert> timelyx: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201&version=31 ?
Nov 03 22:44:06 <tigert> king james might be better for the style though
Nov 03 22:44:12 <tigert> but it's all there
Nov 03 22:44:30 * timelyx tries http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=gen%201;&version=9;
Nov 03 22:45:42 <timelyx> tigert: in the dropdown, what do you see above "The westminster leningrad codex"?
Nov 03 22:45:55 <timelyx> i see:
Nov 03 22:46:29 <timelyx> (he) [eyin][yud][vet][resh][yud][taf]
Nov 03 22:47:16 <timelyx> (that's of course unhelpful given that the yud's are symmetric...)
Nov 03 22:56:13 <tigert> timelyx: hebrew characters
Nov 03 22:56:19 <tigert> that I cannot read
Nov 03 22:56:27 <timelyx> http://ctho.ath.cx/tmp/hebrew.png
Nov 03 22:56:36 <timelyx> something like that, or in the reverse order?
Nov 03 22:57:31 <tigert> like on your screenshot
Nov 03 22:57:32 <tigert> why?
Nov 03 22:57:37 <timelyx> because the order's wrong
Nov 03 22:57:44 <timelyx> (it's backwards)
Nov 03 22:57:53 <timelyx> which is odd, because the text is correct
Nov 03 22:57:55 <tigert> ltr instead of rtl?
Nov 03 22:57:58 <timelyx> yeah
Nov 03 22:58:00 <timelyx> it's just the menu item that's bad
Nov 03 22:58:20 <tigert> maybe because the rest of the meny is mostly western chars?
Nov 03 22:58:48 * timelyx shrugs
Nov 03 22:59:37 <timelyx> even the mouseovers are correct
Nov 03 23:00:53 * timelyx ponders
Nov 03 23:01:02 <timelyx> is contributing to a christian site something i shouldn't do?
Nov 03 23:01:52 * alterego ponders on a program to write for maemo
Nov 03 23:01:58 <alterego> Anyone got any requests/ideas?
Nov 03 23:02:24 <zerojay> alterego: Actually, now that you mention it...
Nov 03 23:02:36 <alterego> Well, spit it out.
Nov 03 23:04:22 <skibur> ideas for what?
Nov 03 23:04:36 <zerojay> I invited you to a channel because I can't just send msgs yet.. been too lazy to register.
Nov 03 23:04:53 <alterego> An application for me to write.
Nov 03 23:05:31 <tigert> timelyx: I guess it's totally up to you
Nov 03 23:05:39 <tigert> :)
Nov 03 23:07:46 <skibur> I don't get it
Nov 03 23:08:12 <tigert> alterego: you are looking for ideas for a cool app?
Nov 03 23:08:12 <timelyx> ?
Nov 03 23:08:14 <skibur> I'm looking for MC on Maemo.org and I find it, but I can't download it
Nov 03 23:08:23 <timelyx> welcome to maemo.org :)
Nov 03 23:08:42 <skibur> BUT, I can find it on my Nokia N800 Application manager.
Nov 03 23:08:44 <alterego> tigert, yeah. Pretty much.
Nov 03 23:09:05 <skibur> Where is the Manager pulling the application download from?
Nov 03 23:10:20 <timelyx> skibur: you can view the catalog list in the tools menu  or something
Nov 03 23:11:47 <legind> when trying to install kagu, I get this:  File "/usr/lib/kagu/remote.py", line 15, in remote /   os.mkfifo(FIFO)  #create fifo / OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory
Nov 03 23:11:47 <skibur> yeah I know, but where are the updates coming from?
Nov 03 23:11:51 <legind> any ideas?
Nov 03 23:12:07 <legind> or, that's trying to *run* kagu.
Nov 03 23:14:58 <alterego> It's typical really. I work really hard on getting ruby-maemo up and running so I can build cool apps for maemo in Ruby. And now it's at the stage where it's very usable I can't think of anything to create :/
Nov 03 23:17:04 <timelyx> see, you should have thought of that before you spent time porting/packaging something no one actually uses =b
Nov 03 23:18:29 <alterego> :(
Nov 03 23:18:38 <alterego> The porting took no time.
Nov 03 23:18:57 <alterego> It was binding it to the various libraries that make Maemo that took the time :P
Nov 03 23:27:06 <p|> if someone need it: http://www.zamprogno.it/files/inadyn-1.96.2.tar.bz2
Nov 03 23:51:46 <legind> how do I get modules to load at bootup without /etc/modules? do I have to make a /etc/init.d script?
Nov 03 23:52:29 <skibur> GPE download?  Where can I get it?
Nov 03 23:52:43 <skibur> http://gpe.linuxtogo.org/   ?
Nov 03 23:54:34 <skibur> hello?
Nov 03 23:58:33 <astro76> skibur, add the Kernel Concepts repo listed here http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories
Nov 03 23:59:58 <p|> legind: i think it is the best thing
Nov 04 00:01:47 <legind> p| cool thanks
Nov 04 00:32:28 <p|> <alterego> Anyone got any requests/ideas?
Nov 04 00:32:37 <p|> gui ftp client ?
Nov 04 00:32:43 <p|> (gftp ?)
Nov 04 00:32:51 <p|> filezilla ?
Nov 04 00:33:04 <p|> or grisbi (financial app)
Nov 04 00:33:11 <alterego> grisbi?
Nov 04 00:33:35 <alterego> What would you use a GUI FTP client for?
Nov 04 00:33:41 <alterego> I didn't think anyone used FTP anymore ..
Nov 04 00:34:40 <legind> sftp client
Nov 04 00:34:54 <legind> or at least fix fuse
Nov 04 00:35:04 <alterego> Now that I can dig :)
Nov 04 00:36:25 <p|> alterego: upload files on my site ?
Nov 04 00:36:28 <p|> :)
Nov 04 00:36:39 <alterego> You use FTP for that?
Nov 04 00:36:46 <alterego> Old skool ..
Nov 04 00:36:47 <legind> hey p|, where you live?
Nov 04 00:36:49 <legind> hehe
Nov 04 00:36:50 <p|> lol
Nov 04 00:37:04 <p|> Italy
Nov 04 00:37:15 <legind> do you happen to have a non-WPA connection per chance
Nov 04 00:37:16 <legind> ;)
Nov 04 00:37:20 <p|> alterego: what are you using ?
Nov 04 00:37:54 <alterego> scp
Nov 04 00:38:01 <alterego> HTTP post
Nov 04 00:38:02 <legind> p| FTP passwords are sent in plaintext
Nov 04 00:38:14 <alterego> Depends what I'm uploading.
Nov 04 00:38:18 <p|> ha :)
Nov 04 00:38:54 <alterego> I just wrote a cute little app that stops the AVLS from kicking in when you plug in headphones.
Nov 04 00:39:19 <alterego> Unfortunately it has the side effect that it wont allow the volume to be under 100% in any circumstances. But that doesn't bother me .. ^_^
Nov 04 00:39:39 <alterego> Easily fixed too but I think it's fine how it is.
Nov 04 00:39:56 <alterego> Now to make my CPU/Mem applet rainbow coloured.
Nov 04 00:40:21 <lopz> re
Nov 04 00:40:27 <alterego> re?
Nov 04 00:41:04 <playya_> deer in germany
Nov 04 00:41:12 <alterego> Heh
Nov 04 00:42:34 <p|> good night to all :)
Nov 04 00:42:59 <b0unc3> ciao p| ;)
Nov 04 00:43:28 <p|> ciao b0unc3 :)
Nov 04 00:44:12 <playya_> so tried to port compiz/beryl to port to n800 :P
Nov 04 00:45:20 <alterego> O_o
Nov 04 00:45:25 <alterego> And you expected it to work?
Nov 04 00:47:57 * alterego customises his boot up logo.
Nov 04 00:48:04 <alterego> This is how bored I am!
Nov 04 00:50:59 <derf> That was one of the first things I did!
Nov 04 00:51:26 <b0unc3> somebody wants to test https://garage.maemo.org/projects/wizard-mounter/ ?
Nov 04 00:51:30 <b0unc3> only in svn atm
Nov 04 00:52:26 <alterego> I think the first thing I did hacking wise was ruby-maemo.
Nov 04 00:52:33 <alterego> Well, ruby-hildon
Nov 04 00:52:33 <_Monkey> i heard ruby-hildon was port of hildon bindings in ruby language is also http://alterego.freeshell.org/projects/ruby-maemo/
Nov 04 00:52:48 <alterego> How do I change _Monkey?
Nov 04 00:53:20 <alterego> Anyhow, after that I enabled the 'restart' function in the systemui menu.
Nov 04 01:00:02 <skibur> for GPE  I need to install all of that ---> http://downloads.kernelconcepts.de/maemo3/dists/bora/free/binary-armel/
Nov 04 01:50:35 <skibur> where can I download libxau0?
Nov 04 01:52:42 <b0unc3> skibur: it's on repo
Nov 04 01:53:00 <b0unc3> skibur: http://repository.maemo.org bora/free
Nov 04 01:53:00 <skibur> do I have to be root to install?
Nov 04 01:53:13 <b0unc3> skibur: yes
Nov 04 01:53:21 <skibur> :(
Nov 04 01:53:49 <b0unc3> if it's not listed on the application manager...
Nov 04 02:10:29 <legind> how do you open that dialogue to lock screen, turn off etc from command line
Nov 04 02:10:47 <legind> the button stopped working...
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 04 02:59:57 2007