**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 13 02:59:56 2007 Nov 13 03:02:49 <|R> http://research.nokia.com/people/karim_seada <- i wish they'd release something about their mesh (wireless peer-to-peer) network Nov 13 03:04:54 l7: it is a cesspool of links to vendors hawking their goods Nov 13 03:05:43 80% of the time I search for something, the first 100 or so links are all: nextag, globalspec, ebay, and sites with random garbage design to match almost anything Nov 13 03:06:08 the useful searches require a long list of -'s to remove the garage Nov 13 03:06:10 garbage Nov 13 03:06:40 Maybe I search for different stuff than you do, but I think I've only had to use - maybe three times in the last year. Nov 13 03:06:50 And most of the stuff I want is on the first page. Nov 13 03:06:58 must be Nov 13 03:07:24 most of my searches are for things that I want info on, not a vendor, esp. not a vendor that just relist stuff w/o added info Nov 13 03:08:38 and to make it worse, google is intentionally doing a fuzzy match; if I said stamp, I don't want links relating to stamps or any other spellings of that. and yes, I know about the advance search features and all that Nov 13 03:08:53 but enough complaining Nov 13 03:09:18 yeah, google's been making a lot of ad revenue Nov 13 03:09:34 and going down hill as far as being useful Nov 13 03:09:39 <|R> ds3 : i agree that as soon as you search for hardware info / review, you only end up finding crap stores and eBay :/ Nov 13 03:10:08 <|R> ds3 : but for the rest, as zerojay said, i usually have a hit in the top10 that suits my needs Nov 13 03:10:20 del.icio.us is another one of those big contaminators Nov 13 03:10:25 <|R> oh yeas Nov 13 03:10:28 <|R> tag festival Nov 13 03:10:32 |R: depends on how obscure what you want is Nov 13 03:10:36 <|R> ds3 indeed Nov 13 03:10:38 its funny, I used to think of google as an underdog Nov 13 03:10:49 I do not need hits 20 hits that all refer to that one single link Nov 13 03:10:53 <|R> let's got back to altavista haha ;) Nov 13 03:10:53 now their as big as microsoft Nov 13 03:11:13 google used to have a useful search engine that searched for what you wanted not what someones thinks you wanted Nov 13 03:11:19 <|R> penguinbait : not in terms of employee or mass yet, but soon :) Nov 13 03:11:56 * |R trying to find that Nov 13 03:12:00 <|R> oops Nov 13 03:12:19 * |R trying to find that OLSR Pro Active AutoConfig plugin :| Nov 13 03:20:36 it would be nice to have a fifo writeable /dev/sdp Nov 13 03:20:37 dsp Nov 13 03:21:03 non-blocking of course :) Nov 13 03:33:44 when it comes to google, I see it like this: Nov 13 03:33:49 they used to be a search engine company Nov 13 03:33:54 now they're an advertising company Nov 13 03:36:00 <|R> yep Nov 13 03:37:16 Delivering the most useful 'advertising' ever. Nov 13 03:37:44 search engine, maps, office apps, collaborative apps etc Nov 13 04:15:10 advertising is useful as mind alterdrugs Nov 13 04:15:26 Just say NO to ad pushers Nov 13 04:19:04 <|R> choose your own ads Nov 13 04:19:05 <|R> hehe Nov 13 04:19:41 <|R> I like the Steve Mann's idea of filtering reality ;) Nov 13 04:21:23 * |R wonders if he could get around the OLSR IP distribution problem by using IPv6 proactive autoconfiguration with the MAC of the device... does the n8x0 has ipv6 support? Nov 13 04:41:00 http://transmetropolitan.org:8080/ some cool projects (very) Nov 13 04:48:51 so, fwiw Nov 13 04:48:54 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/ Nov 13 04:49:03 should now have the latest chinook cross referenced Nov 13 04:49:40 <|R> :) Nov 13 04:49:55 * timeless sent ~900mb of data to add the updated chinook Nov 13 05:27:14 Hey guys Nov 13 05:27:54 I'm looking to see if anyone knows if the "Apple Wireless Pro Keyboard" is compatible with the N800? Nov 13 05:34:54 <|R> Syntra : if it's HID it should? Nov 13 05:35:00 Theres the thing Nov 13 05:35:06 I'm not sure if its HID Nov 13 05:35:21 <|R> i think i saw some talking about it on internettablettalk Nov 13 05:35:27 <|R> check it :) Nov 13 05:35:49 Yeah, I'm searching for it right now Nov 13 05:36:06 In the topic about Apple's new keyboard someone said the old one is Nov 13 05:36:16 But I'm not sure if they meant the Wireless Pro Nov 13 05:36:23 I'd like to be 100% sure before buying Nov 13 05:36:38 <|R> i don't know :( Nov 13 05:37:08 good morning Nov 13 05:37:20 cat i install maemo into handalds like hp ipaq h2200 Nov 13 05:37:21 ? Nov 13 05:37:24 *can Nov 13 05:38:09 not out of some box.... Nov 13 05:39:18 but it is posible? Nov 13 05:39:21 cool! Nov 13 05:39:53 well, some portion of maemo is open source Nov 13 05:40:01 so if you can port whichever pieces are needed... Nov 13 05:40:19 the question i'd ask is: "is it worth it?" Nov 13 05:40:30 you can pick up 770s/n800s for fairly cheap Nov 13 05:40:34 Syntra: don't you have a random linux box you could try that on? Nov 13 05:41:24 me voy a dormir :) Nov 13 05:41:33 bon nuit! Nov 13 05:41:33 <|R> hehe Nov 13 05:41:37 <|R> bonne nuit :) Nov 13 05:41:42 oh, bonne. Nov 13 05:41:50 <|R> yeah don't ask ;) Nov 13 05:41:52 i have ipaq handheld, but familiar-os is heap of crap;/ Nov 13 05:42:04 bye Nov 13 05:42:07 the night is so feminine... Nov 13 05:42:10 <|R> hehe Nov 13 05:42:33 <|R> une journée... le jour ... go figure Nov 13 05:43:16 Sorry, was talking to my brother. Nov 13 05:43:27 Vegai: Yeah, why? Nov 13 05:43:38 I run Ubuntu Nov 13 05:43:57 I'd just rather like to know if it'll work before I buy it. Nov 13 05:49:55 I think wikipedia just answered my question Nov 13 05:50:06 Apparently there are only two Apple Bluetooth keyboards Nov 13 05:50:40 And since one guy said that the Apples Previous Bluetooth keyboard would work with the N800 Nov 13 05:51:04 He was therefore referring to the Apple Wireless Pro Keyboard, which I have the intent of purchasing. Nov 13 05:52:49 I mean... if it works on your random linux box, it most probably works on the N800, no? Nov 13 05:53:23 btw, does the N810 have hardware opengl? Nov 13 05:54:50 Vegai: I have yet to purchase it, is the thing. Nov 13 05:55:03 Syntra: ohh, ok. Nov 13 05:55:16 Another confirmation: Nov 13 05:55:18 I currently use the last-gen apple BT with my n800 Nov 13 06:06:33 can't wait to try fceu with the N810 Nov 13 06:07:13 vegai: no it does not Nov 13 07:03:41 vegai: yes it still does, but no drivers, so the hw is useless. Nov 13 07:08:13 kulve: that's silly. Nov 13 07:08:32 are they trying? Nov 13 07:09:45 Nokia hasn't made any statement about that Nov 13 07:13:26 I currently use the last-gen apple BT with my n800 Nov 13 07:13:39 have you the bug #2166 ? Nov 13 07:13:40 <_Monkey> Bug 2166 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2166 Nov 13 07:29:59 http://glbenchmark.com/result.jsp OpenGL benchmark on portable devices Nov 13 07:30:39 can we deduce something from that? Nov 13 07:30:48 does the N8xx have a similar chip? Nov 13 07:30:52 as the N9x Nov 13 07:31:54 the dell axim has a powervr mbx but a different memory bus than omap2420 - the newer nokias are 2420 based but lower resolution Nov 13 07:31:58 vegai: it's the same Nov 13 07:32:13 ok, well that's promising Nov 13 07:32:41 ain't nobody promising nuthin :) Nov 13 07:33:23 the powervr demo videos do look pretty nice Nov 13 07:35:20 http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp Nov 13 08:43:56 Morning, all Nov 13 08:56:57 http://www.internettablettalk.com/gallery/ Nokia N810 gallery (flash, music) Nov 13 08:57:54 "Please install flash(r) and turn on javascript" - boo Nov 13 09:05:07 bon dia / good morning Nov 13 09:21:26 what's up on planet maemo Nov 13 09:21:50 ? Nov 13 09:34:36 bedboi: I guess Colin's feed has just been added or created and imported all his entries as having been created "now" Nov 13 09:34:57 lol, today i felt to be in a nightmare Nov 13 09:35:30 i just woke up, turned on my laptop as the first-as-usual-thing-to-do-in-the-morning Nov 13 09:36:00 i pointed to planet maemo, and it felt like living in the past Nov 13 09:36:55 Yeah, very annoying. Might've missed something interesting. Nov 13 09:37:22 hello Nov 13 09:37:36 found this on ITT Nov 13 09:37:39 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/index.html Nov 13 09:38:03 POSE isn't needed anymore.. Nov 13 09:38:08 Yeah, I've got the tab open but not got to it yet. It sounds intriguing from the ITT description Nov 13 09:38:28 how isn't this on maemo.org Nov 13 09:38:53 30,000+ os apps Nov 13 09:39:28 closed source application. Nov 13 09:41:12 if it takes advantage of the internet connection...i will be very happy. Nov 13 09:41:45 It suggests it does (for HotSync, at least - and presumably others) Nov 13 09:41:49 Anyone tried it? Nov 13 09:41:54 bout to Nov 13 09:42:00 I never got on with Palm OS, but there's bound to be loads of apps which would be helpful. Nov 13 09:42:04 will let you know how it goes Nov 13 09:42:08 Remember OS/2's Windows compatibility killed it. Nov 13 09:42:18 The PALM PIM-applications were always quite good. Nov 13 09:42:35 Meh, I found them lacking after my Psion's Nov 13 09:42:42 I used my trusty old Palm V for quite a while. Nov 13 09:42:48 (eh, Vx) Nov 13 09:42:56 and Palm III before that. Nov 13 09:43:26 screen size of the applications running still suck from the look on the screenshots Nov 13 09:43:30 unique311: take lots of photos/screenshots if it works. Nov 13 09:43:37 k Nov 13 09:44:18 It suggests you can rotate the screen to use the space better (hopefully) Nov 13 09:44:36 they even looked out for 770 owners. Nov 13 09:45:04 I wonder if it's going to be a commercial app, though Nov 13 09:45:25 you need to register to download... Nov 13 09:45:31 yeah Nov 13 09:45:45 Not got the email, yet. Nov 13 09:46:28 check ur spam folder, maybe Nov 13 09:46:37 Ah, got it now. Nov 13 09:48:12 Engadget have it: http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/13/virtual-palm-os-on-your-nokia-n-series-tablet-hoozah/ Nov 13 09:48:30 Apparently going to be free when released non-beta, too. Nov 13 09:48:50 Looking at the whitepaper, they're positioning it as a technology demo of their software stack for ISVs, OEMs etc. Nov 13 09:48:55 engadget crashed my browser when i was looking at it. Nov 13 09:50:54 Access download page: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/ Nov 13 09:52:06 milhouse, Nov 13 09:52:10 that doesn't work Nov 13 09:52:21 does for me... Nov 13 09:52:22 Jaffa: Hmm massive N810 ad campaign on that page ;) 2 flash banners for N810.. Nov 13 09:52:25 you still need to provide the information in order to download Nov 13 09:52:36 ah, you mean to actually download it? Nov 13 09:52:40 yes Nov 13 09:53:05 right sorry was just providing a direct link rather than jump through numerous linked news articles :) Nov 13 09:53:14 mak Nov 13 09:53:20 ok Nov 13 09:53:26 hmm.. so now n800 is finally a pda when you install the palm env? :) Nov 13 09:53:33 yes Nov 13 09:53:39 well not really Nov 13 09:53:53 hopefully performance is much better than POSE Nov 13 09:54:06 if it is, i don't see why not Nov 13 09:54:37 need to fnd some free palm stuff to run Nov 13 09:54:54 garnet vm n800 deb: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n800.deb Nov 13 09:55:36 i'm impress, and i just started it. Nov 13 09:55:48 http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_blog_index_page=4 allows you to get back to the planet entries before colin mulliner's :) Nov 13 09:55:49 garnet vm n770 deb: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n770.deb Nov 13 09:55:57 milhouse, that works. Nov 13 09:56:08 feed that link to monkey Nov 13 09:56:18 performance is sweet Nov 13 09:57:00 am i the only one running this right now? Nov 13 09:57:15 garnetvm? Nov 13 09:57:15 <_Monkey> rumour has it garnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n770.deb, N800 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n800.deb and N810: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n810.deb Nov 13 09:57:23 lol Nov 13 09:57:26 nice Nov 13 09:58:08 doesn't look like it's been picked up on Palm Info Center (http://www.palminfocenter.com/) where all the Palm geeks hang out Nov 13 09:58:22 That knob Mike Caine hangs out there, no doubt he'll beat on Nokia Nov 13 09:58:37 he's still bitter over his free 770 Nov 13 10:00:59 responds much faster than POSE Nov 13 10:01:21 try to install some an app see how that goes. Nov 13 10:01:58 unique311: need piccies. I've no device to play with until I get a couple of N810s Nov 13 10:02:11 k Nov 13 10:02:26 after i install the app.. Nov 13 10:02:29 i will take pics Nov 13 10:02:32 cool Nov 13 10:04:16 unique, the screenshots don't show an onscreen keyboard from the palm, does it use the hildon keyboard to type? Nov 13 10:04:25 Dammit. Left my 770 at home... Nov 13 10:05:16 hold on Nov 13 10:06:24 when it says 770 I assume ACCESS are talking about OS2006 on 770? Anyone using OS2007HE should use the n800 deb? Nov 13 10:06:25 no keyboard while using apps Nov 13 10:06:50 so you use the jotter pad to enter text? Nov 13 10:06:53 right now testing out memopad Nov 13 10:07:09 yes Nov 13 10:07:39 or you can bring up the palm keybaord. Nov 13 10:07:45 nice Nov 13 10:07:56 this is great news Nov 13 10:08:08 it seems to work well on my n800 Nov 13 10:08:17 same here Nov 13 10:08:18 fast Nov 13 10:08:24 trying to install an app Nov 13 10:08:26 you can even choose compatibility with various palmos devices (e.g. treo650 vs tungsten) Nov 13 10:08:34 nice... being able to run Palm apps on an IT sounds kinda nice... Nov 13 10:08:36 it does graffitti too :-) Nov 13 10:08:42 i will post picts whe done Nov 13 10:08:43 Does anyone think Palm and ACCESS are trying to kill each other? Nov 13 10:09:12 milhouse: who knows.. Palm seems to be acting in a kinda dumb way... Nov 13 10:09:15 now I can transfer all the stuff over from my treo650 Nov 13 10:09:25 this move by ACCESS isn't great for Palm Nov 13 10:09:28 whoah, pose only went up to what...? Nov 13 10:09:32 announcing new devices and OS every now and then... Nov 13 10:09:33 milhouse, and users of OS2008 on N800 should probably use the N810-deb Nov 13 10:09:36 the dragonball cpus Nov 13 10:09:42 and then announcing they will be delayed... Nov 13 10:09:43 I always thought the move by Palm to develop their own Linux OS was two fingers to ACCESS Nov 13 10:09:53 4 Nov 13 10:09:57 i think pupnik_ Nov 13 10:09:59 inz: yep, sadly not for another week or two :) Nov 13 10:10:09 yeah 4, 4.5 something like that and this does newer palm? Nov 13 10:10:12 not even Nov 13 10:10:16 3.5 Nov 13 10:10:21 ok Nov 13 10:10:36 and this (Garnet) is 5? Nov 13 10:11:01 yes Nov 13 10:12:08 wierd - it doesn't do full screen Nov 13 10:12:34 wtf is "reformat storage" in settigns? Nov 13 10:12:41 lol Nov 13 10:12:41 s/settigns/settings/ Nov 13 10:12:41 milhouse meant: wtf is "reformat storage" in settings? Nov 13 10:12:58 i wouldn't try that out yet. Nov 13 10:13:10 milhouse, I would guess it clears out any data stored by the apps Nov 13 10:13:27 apparently it's got an expiry date - 31 May 2008 Nov 13 10:13:40 inz: you try it and let me know :) Nov 13 10:14:35 holy cow, just ran the prefs app - too wierd. might have looked better in landscape mode Nov 13 10:14:53 still beta. Nov 13 10:15:04 milhouse, seems to do nothing at all Nov 13 10:15:06 aye Nov 13 10:15:09 true Nov 13 10:15:30 oh sorry, it does Nov 13 10:15:32 staying away from anything that says format. Nov 13 10:16:03 It removed an event from the date book Nov 13 10:16:15 i.e. it removes any user data (and I guess apps too) Nov 13 10:16:28 lol, I can set the time format to 24 hours!! how sophisticated is that? :) Nov 13 10:16:54 oops, just crashed it Nov 13 10:17:44 installed an app Nov 13 10:17:52 first crash.. Nov 13 10:18:02 historic. Nov 13 10:18:40 cool Nov 13 10:18:49 i installed zuma..and its working. Nov 13 10:19:03 milhouse what are you running it on? Nov 13 10:21:16 N800 Nov 13 10:21:21 OS2007 Nov 13 10:21:21 <_Monkey> hmmm... OS2007 is better but needs more memory Nov 13 10:21:32 _Monkey: forget OS2007 Nov 13 10:21:32 <_Monkey> Jaffa: I forgot os2007 Nov 13 10:22:02 not really sure i'd ever use this though... Nov 13 10:22:10 _Monkey: OS2007 is soon to be obsolete, replaced by OS2008 on the N800 and N810. Nov 13 10:22:11 <_Monkey> OK, Jaffa. Nov 13 10:22:15 i last used a Palm over 4 years ago Nov 13 10:22:38 original slidey Tungsten Nov 13 10:23:05 This emulator might be useful for anyone migrating from Palm to Nokia I guess Nov 13 10:23:15 mmm it doesn't show in landscape mode Nov 13 10:23:45 at least on my n800 Nov 13 10:24:01 320x240 would translate nicely to 800x480 with black bars top and bottom in landscape mode Nov 13 10:24:18 l0cutus - portrait only it would seem Nov 13 10:24:50 yes Nov 13 10:25:12 * unit42 just spread the word among our last Palm users here @work... :-) Nov 13 10:25:21 Treos that are... Nov 13 10:25:48 i think we have a (finally) good pim ? :D Nov 13 10:25:58 this vm seems to use hardly any cpu at all Nov 13 10:26:12 ARM apps aren't emulated, according to the whitepaper Nov 13 10:27:00 nice Nov 13 10:27:03 anyone installed any of the old 68K apps? Nov 13 10:27:15 or doesn't this vm come with the 68K emulation? Nov 13 10:27:38 i would understand if it didn't Nov 13 10:31:08 milhouse: according to the whitepaper, it does have a 68K emulation engine, using JIT-style recompilation techniques. Nov 13 10:31:19 nice Nov 13 10:31:46 just looking at palmgear.com trying to find something interesting (and free) to download - good god there's a lot of tat on Palm! Nov 13 10:31:47 r0x0r Nov 13 10:32:03 http://www.flickr.com/photos/unique0nez/1999158588/ 1 screenshot of memopad Nov 13 10:32:28 http://www.flickr.com/photos/unique0nez/1998342079/in/photostream/ zuma running Nov 13 10:32:32 very fast Nov 13 10:32:44 i did a short video of zuma running. Nov 13 10:32:46 unique311: no option to use the screen in portrait mode, or non-full screen? Nov 13 10:33:13 nothing in settings. Nov 13 10:33:58 Most of the Palm Apps had problems running on full screen on my good old T3. Nov 13 10:34:18 so much crap software on offer... everyone is catered for! Nov 13 10:34:27 They were unable to use the bigger screen. Nov 13 10:34:40 it does the default size of palm devices Nov 13 10:35:00 Indeed. But the pixel density on the NITs is so high, pixel doubling's pretty much going to be essential ;-/ Nov 13 10:35:29 did notice sound on zuma worked when i first ran it. Nov 13 10:35:37 but for the video i got no sound. Nov 13 10:37:27 it does sound. Nov 13 10:37:41 pupnik, it does games. Nov 13 10:37:44 i still like unique311's skins better http://www.flickr.com/photos/unique0nez/627954390/in/photostream Nov 13 10:37:49 you will see in the video... Nov 13 10:37:54 pretty damn fast Nov 13 10:38:13 can use them i think as a background. Nov 13 10:38:17 upload in progress? ;-) Nov 13 10:38:29 theirs an option under settings to change the background. Nov 13 10:38:35 yes Nov 13 10:38:36 ok Nov 13 10:39:03 i had antishake on so it should be ok...i think Nov 13 10:39:37 this should get an entry in the big blogs - thoughtfix, ITT etc Nov 13 10:40:39 Aye! Nov 13 10:40:45 pretty sure he'll blog on about it. Nov 13 10:40:51 still early over here. Nov 13 10:41:10 20 minutes to 6 Nov 13 10:41:39 Thoughtfix already has. Nov 13 10:41:51 he's good Nov 13 10:42:25 http://tabletblog.com/2007/11/free-palmos-emulator-for-nokia-internet.html Nov 13 10:42:31 It's just buried on pmo Nov 13 10:45:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjXeTtOlWgM Nov 13 10:45:46 not the best Nov 13 10:47:33 i have that game on my ipod video, performs same way. Nov 13 10:47:34 Do you not have a tripod? ;-) Nov 13 10:48:13 no Nov 13 10:48:30 but i think i was shaking it worse. Nov 13 10:48:36 its a pretty good camera Nov 13 10:48:59 yeah Nov 13 10:49:03 cool vid, ta. Nov 13 10:49:51 i really dislike the expiration date. Nov 13 10:50:16 Fairly standard for betas. Engadget says the real version won't cost either, so here's hoping. Nov 13 10:50:22 cool Nov 13 10:50:52 if they can take advantage of the screen on the devices..that would be a plus also Nov 13 10:51:03 Yeah, and the N810's hardware keyboard Nov 13 10:51:11 wow that's pretty fast Nov 13 10:51:16 zuma Nov 13 10:51:27 surprise how fast the game ran Nov 13 10:51:40 pose had lag. Nov 13 10:52:30 tested out a paint program on pose, that wasn't playing nice at all. Nov 13 10:52:40 i saw the screenshot Nov 13 10:52:48 gotta crash here - cheers all Nov 13 10:52:49 going to try it on this vm. Nov 13 10:53:04 so far no crashes here. Nov 13 10:53:18 you testing apps pupnik_ ? Nov 13 10:56:45 no too sleepy Nov 13 10:57:04 just wondering why its crashing. Nov 13 10:57:13 no crash here yet. Nov 13 10:57:16 oh i meant like crash into bed Nov 13 10:57:19 ok Nov 13 10:58:12 oh btw the guy who works on abiword said it works great on os2008 Nov 13 10:58:49 and this other guy is working on printing support Nov 13 10:58:56 lots of good things coming Nov 13 10:59:23 nice budweiser drawing on your flickr site Nov 13 11:00:18 i haven't had the patience to try using colors like that yet Nov 13 11:00:47 good morning Nov 13 11:03:30 lo florian Nov 13 11:04:10 done on mtpaint pupnik_ Nov 13 11:04:36 still waiting on the dev on maemo.org to release a worth while version of faint. Nov 13 11:04:58 but i'm going to try a bunch of paint programs on garnet right now. Nov 13 11:06:48 im trying to flash a new kernel to my n800 but after the flasher sends the image the device boots up the old kernel Nov 13 11:06:53 any idea why? Nov 13 11:07:35 i used " flasher -f -k zImage " Nov 13 11:08:10 josephus: sounds odd.. There really can't be two kernels.. Nov 13 11:08:21 josephus: either the flashing fails, or you are flashing the old kernel.. Nov 13 11:08:53 http://tabletblog.com/2007/11/access-garnet-for-maemo-first-look.html too Nov 13 11:13:11 stable video Nov 13 11:13:19 damn his good. Nov 13 11:22:23 hi all Nov 13 11:50:36 http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/clips/wiimote-hack-is-wireless-multitouch-tv-321329.php Nov 13 11:50:47 pretty cool hack Nov 13 11:51:32 and there are add for the n810 so I guess it is not to much off topic Nov 13 11:52:23 it feels like we have not talked about real programming for a long time on irc Nov 13 11:59:24 I have a non-graphical app that needs to run a GMainLoop to poll for ConIcConnection signals, which it now does. However, it also needs to perform something else every n seconds. Before the ConIcConnection thing it would just nanosleep in between iterations, but now I apparently need to set up a timer that sends signals like ConIcConnection does. I'm having trouble discovering what timers I need to use for that. Nov 13 11:59:42 Or am I an idiot for even trying to do it this way? Nov 13 12:00:44 hmm. is there a prebuild ssh-server deb for 810 somewhere? Nov 13 12:00:48 prebuilt even Nov 13 12:01:00 Gubbe: g_timeout_add Nov 13 12:01:15 http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/2.14/glib-The-Main-Event-Loop.html#g-timeout-add Nov 13 12:01:52 derf: ah, timeouts! I remember those were mentioned somewhere. Thank you! Nov 13 12:02:10 Yer welcome. Nov 13 12:26:43 Hi ! Nov 13 12:40:24 I just submitted my new project to garage Nov 13 12:40:31 it's a port of REminiscence for Maemo Nov 13 12:40:40 works 100% on N800, as far as I can see Nov 13 12:40:47 Flashback rules :) Nov 13 12:44:05 hmm. pressing left in app manager doesn't "go back" Nov 13 12:44:08 why not? :-) Nov 13 12:48:55 hmm. is there a way to get root account enabled without bothering to set the rd-mode? Nov 13 12:49:18 you can install becomeroot Nov 13 12:49:48 hmm. Nov 13 12:49:58 on which OS? Nov 13 12:50:07 2008 Nov 13 12:50:28 could use ssh in 2007... Nov 13 12:50:57 well. I installed openssh-server. trying to login as root/rootme. no go. sudo gainroot on the device complains about rd-mode. Nov 13 12:52:00 os 2008 :) Nov 13 12:52:10 on the sdk ? Nov 13 12:52:21 no. on 810. Nov 13 12:52:38 hmm Nov 13 12:52:58 ssh root@localhost used to work on os2007 Nov 13 12:53:18 will try that then (need to download ssh client first though :-) Nov 13 12:53:38 czr: enable rd-mode with flasher Nov 13 12:54:22 suihkulokki, there is no other way? Nov 13 12:54:28 (I'm feeling extra lazy) Nov 13 12:54:33 czr: ssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n800 Nov 13 12:55:04 kulve, rootme as pw? Nov 13 12:55:15 czr: yes, until I changed it ;) Nov 13 12:55:23 well. it doesn't work. Nov 13 12:55:37 what does it say? Nov 13 12:55:51 heh. noticed something funny too. when entering password for ssh, the predictive dictionary wants to suggest all kinds of stuff beginning with rootme.. Nov 13 12:55:55 kulve, permission denied Nov 13 12:56:01 maybe they prechanged the root passwd on yours to p$&vx909&&#nn#!!%6 Nov 13 12:56:03 (please try again) Nov 13 12:56:15 maybe so. Nov 13 12:56:19 czr: that sounds odd, but I don't have n810, so I really don't know.. Nov 13 12:56:38 suihkulokki, can I use stock flasher for the r&d mode thingy? Nov 13 12:56:43 stock=n800 one. Nov 13 12:57:07 czr: at least for n800 you can Nov 13 12:57:19 stock being the linux flasher tool Nov 13 13:01:12 I know I can use the n800 flasher with n800. that wasn't the question :-) Nov 13 13:04:04 try it out Nov 13 13:04:06 :) Nov 13 13:04:28 I would guess that it would deny doing anything, if it can't. But that's just a guess ;) Nov 13 13:09:46 Yay, Mobymemory have delivered my 6GB microSDHC card. Nov 13 13:12:04 Hi :) Nov 13 13:12:08 kulve, the n800 flasher (3.0) doesn't recognize the device Nov 13 13:12:19 'Suitable USB device not found, waiting' Nov 13 13:13:13 Blimey, microSD is *tiny* Nov 13 13:14:56 czr: ok :/ Nov 13 13:17:42 czr: works for me Nov 13 13:18:03 I haven't even seen a newer version of the flasher Nov 13 13:18:04 jjo, k, will recheck. Nov 13 13:19:49 bleh. I'm such a monkey. forgot that the flasher needs the device to boot up properly. Nov 13 13:20:00 somehow expected it to work when the device was already on. Nov 13 13:20:04 * czr hides in shame and runs Nov 13 13:20:11 jjo, thanks. Nov 13 13:20:39 * tsavola spanks czr Nov 13 13:20:46 well flasher could be smart enough to say "hey, looks like there is a powered-on device connected already" Nov 13 13:21:09 could it? Nov 13 13:22:48 it could have a paper clip telling all these things :) Nov 13 13:23:10 * Tak files feature request for a paperclip Nov 13 13:23:12 root me babe, root me harder Nov 13 13:23:38 "it looks like you're about to violate the internal memory of the device. are you aware that you will void your warranty?" Nov 13 13:23:54 * czr feels well spanked Nov 13 13:24:02 thanks tsavola and long time. Nov 13 13:24:04 * zeenix spanks tsavola for changing nicks Nov 13 13:24:13 "you're about to write to ram. are you sure you want to write to the ram?" Nov 13 13:24:18 * jumpula spanks everybody just for the fun of it Nov 13 13:24:53 tsavola: "it may cause severe side-effects" Nov 13 13:25:00 zeenix: "timo" is taken on freenode, and i use the silly old nick on ircnet only because i've done so for over a decade Nov 13 13:25:02 zeenix, headache? Nov 13 13:25:15 "you're about to ram your ram. you really want to do this?" Nov 13 13:25:36 czr: yes Nov 13 13:26:11 "you have a ram in your device, do you wish to report it to Nokia? No information will be sent!" Nov 13 13:26:17 spankfest? Nov 13 13:26:34 october went already Nov 13 13:26:51 tsavola, good friends spank each other during other months as well Nov 13 13:27:06 whee. got root. Nov 13 13:27:15 maybe i should go for that fashionable underscore-after-my-name nick Nov 13 13:27:33 bah Nov 13 13:27:36 already taken Nov 13 13:27:46 hantainen timo Nov 13 13:27:58 12765 - ei voittoa Nov 13 13:28:18 why not omit? Nov 13 13:28:43 it's negative Nov 13 13:28:51 omit timo Nov 13 13:28:55 makes me feel sad Nov 13 13:29:18 hmm. the long minus behind you doesn't? :-) Nov 13 13:29:19 my tail is 3 chars long, you can sit on it Nov 13 13:29:31 indeed I can Nov 13 13:29:43 creature comfort Nov 13 13:29:46 timo, howabout the rot13 version of your nick? Nov 13 13:30:11 hmm. next, mental damage for the n800 Nov 13 13:30:57 is there any real reason why mini usb was chosen as the cable btw? Nov 13 13:31:24 alternatively you could have 4-char long tail and call it "my word" Nov 13 13:31:51 suihkulokki: that would defeat the purpose of having your nick based on your real name :) Nov 13 13:31:53 ok, I'll get me my coat -> Nov 13 13:32:06 suihkulokki, a shower curtain? Nov 13 13:32:11 :DD Nov 13 13:32:18 :) Nov 13 13:32:22 :P Nov 13 13:32:30 shower gull, actually Nov 13 13:32:38 jumpula: _coat_ Nov 13 13:32:54 i should get one? :) Nov 13 13:32:56 yep Nov 13 13:32:57 jumpula, sure. but a shower curtain would be the aptest coat for a shower gull, don't you think? Nov 13 13:33:04 but this is based on my real name Nov 13 13:34:05 czr: what are you doing nowadays? Nov 13 13:34:21 timo___, same old. Nov 13 13:34:24 and besides. no-one else wants this nick. Nov 13 13:34:33 i do Nov 13 13:34:34 reason enough to keep it :) Nov 13 13:34:37 or rather same old as was back when we used to know each other :-) Nov 13 13:34:47 czr: ok Nov 13 13:34:53 timo___, you? Nov 13 13:34:57 czr: same old... Nov 13 13:34:59 I bet I could sell the jumpula nick on ebay. Nov 13 13:35:06 czr: well, not so much maemo stuff though :) Nov 13 13:35:09 timo___, the universe moves in cycles Nov 13 13:35:20 czr: for me, it stands still Nov 13 13:35:20 * jumpula spanks dpb_ Nov 13 13:35:29 timo___, a very small cycle for you then :-) Nov 13 13:35:35 Ooh, the spanking again. Nov 13 13:35:48 small cycle -> high-frequency spanking Nov 13 13:35:57 Such a gay channel.. <.< Nov 13 13:36:01 spank-a-boo Nov 13 13:36:06 dpb_: it's the best kind Nov 13 13:36:12 small enough cycle -> a point -> infinite frequency spanking aka the spank infinituum Nov 13 13:37:47 sorry i said anything today Nov 13 13:38:18 * timo___ fetches snacks -> Nov 13 13:39:37 eternity never looks so lovely Nov 13 13:39:40 all this spanking business made me thirsty for coffee Nov 13 13:39:53 heh jumpula Nov 13 13:40:23 Hmm.. A snack would be nice.. Nov 13 13:40:44 seletive negative ack Nov 13 13:40:49 selective even Nov 13 13:41:31 bleh. reflashed 2007 into the 800 by mistake Nov 13 13:41:40 ./flasher --undo Nov 13 13:42:28 ah no. Version of 'sw-release': RX-34_2007SE_4.2007.38-2_PR_MR0 was slightly misleading Nov 13 13:43:13 I wonder if the 2008 flash for 810 would work for 800 Nov 13 13:43:58 is 2008 already available? Nov 13 13:44:22 svu, no Nov 13 13:44:33 ugh. I just thought for a moment... Nov 13 13:44:41 (people discussing it casually...;) Nov 13 13:45:15 * czr feels very casual today. Nov 13 13:45:21 it's all the spanking I guess. Nov 13 13:45:33 casual tuesday Nov 13 13:46:08 * czr wishes there'd be a "stand" thingy on the 770 Nov 13 13:46:19 that way I could put all three in a row under one of the displays Nov 13 13:46:52 I read: "spank" thingy on the 770 Nov 13 13:47:20 dpb_, that's an unofficial feature Nov 13 13:47:26 comes with the 2007WE Nov 13 13:47:39 WE? Nov 13 13:47:40 <_Monkey> WE are making pressure, because we understand the possibilities... but if they (managers) think other ways... or have other plans... it's complicated.. Nov 13 13:47:52 dpb_, as alterego put it yesterday, the wanking edition (HE) Nov 13 13:48:05 ahh, that one Nov 13 13:48:06 :P Nov 13 13:49:40 * czr wonders if there'll be a 2008HE Nov 13 13:52:28 hmm. I wonder if I deserve spanking for logging as root into the 800 first, then using ssh to log into the 810 as root. Nov 13 13:52:35 * czr needs more devices to chain ssh Nov 13 13:54:19 the HE is supposed to be brought in line with 2008 Nov 13 13:54:43 Tak, oh. nice to know Nov 13 13:55:08 that'd make it simpler to support it too Nov 13 13:55:13 same arch, right? Nov 13 13:56:54 mostly Nov 13 13:57:09 gcc-wise I mean Nov 13 13:57:14 sbox-tgt-wise. Nov 13 13:57:20 targetwise, yes Nov 13 13:57:29 Just don't use vfp ;) Nov 13 13:57:29 gccwise, it depends how fancy you get with the compiler flags Nov 13 13:57:44 and don't build specifically for arm11 Nov 13 13:58:37 inz, vfp isn't enabled in 2008, is it? Nov 13 13:58:46 by default I mean Nov 13 14:00:55 czr, dunno, unlikely Nov 13 14:01:19 yup. that's what I'm thinking too. so enabling it by mistake isn't likely Nov 13 14:11:23 hola Nov 13 14:12:47 hola lopz Nov 13 14:15:47 hey felipec Nov 13 14:43:20 hi mallum Nov 13 14:43:36 hey zeenix Nov 13 14:43:37 <_Monkey> zeenix is just sore since he has trouble learning finnish ;) Nov 13 14:44:43 _Monkey: who said i am sore? Nov 13 14:44:44 <_Monkey> zeenix: wish i knew Nov 13 14:45:07 it's ok, finnish is quite hard Nov 13 14:45:19 it's ok to be sore Nov 13 14:45:30 after spanking Nov 13 15:13:17 * Jaffa improves the holding page for mediautils slightly: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/index.php Nov 13 15:18:28 Jaffa: one typo, mediasev Nov 13 15:22:07 solmumaha: thanks. fixed. Nov 13 15:24:17 'lut Nov 13 15:29:27 robtaylor: ping Nov 13 15:29:37 or anyone else who knows about Python for that matter Nov 13 15:30:34 shoot Nov 13 15:30:47 python-central Nov 13 15:30:54 nevermind Nov 13 15:31:02 lardman: pong Nov 13 15:31:16 * robtaylor only pretends to know about python ;) Nov 13 15:31:18 robtaylor: do you know anything about python-central vs debhelper? Nov 13 15:31:20 lardman: yeah! ask timo___ he wrote an encoder in py :) Nov 13 15:31:31 lardman: yep, what you want to know? Nov 13 15:31:48 I want to use matplotlib, it requires python-central Nov 13 15:31:56 python-central conflicts with debhelper Nov 13 15:32:13 yay. code works. now for a short nap -> Nov 13 15:32:19 can I unconflict them or do I need to do as Ed Bartosh says and change it over to use debhelper Nov 13 15:32:29 lardman: ah, where are you getting python-central from? Nov 13 15:32:41 debian sid iirc Nov 13 15:33:01 lardman: well, its all very non-trivial. In my repo I have a complately different version of python to pymaemo that allows python-central usage Nov 13 15:33:04 just grabbed the .tar.gz, .dsc * .diff as per the usual Nov 13 15:33:13 hmm Nov 13 15:33:27 lardman: but the pymaemo packaging basically requires you to completely repackage any python packages you want Nov 13 15:33:46 that is bad presumably? Nov 13 15:33:50 yup Nov 13 15:33:51 mroe work anyway Nov 13 15:34:03 however my repackaging is a lot heavier than the pymaemo packaging Nov 13 15:34:15 and solving that problem is definitly non-trivial Nov 13 15:34:22 oh, so your system also requires repackaging then, hmm Nov 13 15:34:43 nope,mine'll allow you to rebuild sid packagedpretty much without change Nov 13 15:35:04 do you have installable python packages - that I can run on the N800 and in scratchbox? Nov 13 15:35:09 in your repo that is Nov 13 15:35:17 lardman: but theproblem being,ideally python packages for maemo should just install zipped byte-compiled versions Nov 13 15:35:34 lardman: but python-central is predicated on installing the source and byte-compiling on install Nov 13 15:35:45 ah, I see Nov 13 15:35:50 is the source then deleted? Nov 13 15:35:57 lardman: nope, not on debian Nov 13 15:36:01 so it's slow and bloated too Nov 13 15:36:21 lardman: so when you upgrade python, it recompiles for the new python Nov 13 15:36:25 aye Nov 13 15:36:29 well, not slow Nov 13 15:36:31 but bloated Nov 13 15:36:50 slow doing the recompile I meant, or is that always done anyway? Nov 13 15:36:56 so solving this problem involves rethinking python-central with the debian python guys Nov 13 15:37:08 lardman: thats only done on install, doesnt take long Nov 13 15:37:13 ok Nov 13 15:37:37 cool: http://www.botjunkie.com/2007/10/26/n800-nokia-dog-a-tail-wagging-tablet/ Nov 13 15:37:54 brb Nov 13 15:37:54 so, yeah, the options are, usemy python packages, take space hit, or repackage for maemo Nov 13 15:38:20 robtaylor: repackage after it's been compiled? Or alter the build process? Nov 13 15:38:40 Dunno if you've seen this already, youtube video of Google Android (doesn't look bad) Nov 13 15:38:48 |http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FJHYqE0RDg Nov 13 15:40:12 robtaylor: where do I find your packages? I'm more interested in using Python than messing about with its build process to be honest Nov 13 15:40:53 lardman: packages.codethink.co.uk Nov 13 15:41:08 lardman: i havn't touched them for a while, but should still work Nov 13 15:41:27 thanks, I'll take a look Nov 13 15:41:30 np Nov 13 15:53:17 timelyx, thank you; apps are available in repositories now! Nov 13 15:54:31 good praise for the garnet vm on ITT. Nov 13 15:54:36 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/feedback.html Nov 13 15:54:57 put that link to use... Nov 13 15:56:18 let the people at access know that we need bigger screen res on this vm. Nov 13 15:57:50 yup Nov 13 15:59:47 compatibility mode.. Nov 13 15:59:49 http://homepage.mac.com/alvinmok/palm/codenames.html Nov 13 15:59:58 choose app you want to run. Nov 13 16:00:01 configure Nov 13 16:00:05 custom Nov 13 16:00:19 and find the company ID and device ID from the link Nov 13 16:01:37 it only takes advantage of the internet for hotsync. Nov 13 16:02:00 unique311: wow, when was this thing announced? Nov 13 16:02:05 yes Nov 13 16:02:13 early this morning Nov 13 16:02:19 still not on maemo yet Nov 13 16:02:37 check ITT for some comments on it Nov 13 16:02:44 so when? :) Nov 13 16:03:02 wow Nov 13 16:03:03 unique311: where do you expect it on maemo? Nov 13 16:03:13 news? Nov 13 16:03:15 too many good announces in two days Nov 13 16:03:31 android, os2008, now this :D Nov 13 16:03:53 android appears full of java cracl Nov 13 16:03:56 crack even Nov 13 16:04:25 java within garnet vm Nov 13 16:04:49 unique311: garnet is java? Nov 13 16:05:08 chimecs Nov 13 16:05:09 unique311: remember it's a beta, but at least 2 articles about it on planet (admittedly buried by the Colin Mulliner blog issue) and another two on https://maemo.org/news/ Nov 13 16:05:18 ls -l Nov 13 16:05:36 failed to check. was on ITT Nov 13 16:05:43 sorry bout that Nov 13 16:05:47 anything new Nov 13 16:05:48 ? Nov 13 16:06:04 garnet vm skibur Nov 13 16:11:56 hmm, I've still not received my email with a download link Nov 13 16:12:08 garnetos Nov 13 16:12:13 garnetvm Nov 13 16:12:14 <_Monkey> garnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n770.deb, N800 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n800.deb and N810: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n810.deb Nov 13 16:12:20 lardman Nov 13 16:12:25 lol, thanks Nov 13 16:13:04 gmail Nov 13 16:13:10 recieved it really fast Nov 13 16:13:29 shackan, http://www.palm.com/us/support/jvm/download.html Nov 13 16:13:32 ah well, thanks, I thought I'd see what all the fuss is about Nov 13 16:13:54 downside i can see right now is that danm screen size. Nov 13 16:17:09 why's that - because the apps are hardcoded? Nov 13 16:19:03 they made the 'theme' with a jotter pad below the screen instead of to the side, wasting vertical space. Nov 13 16:19:07 its a vm. and its doing the palm device screen res. which is 320x??? Nov 13 16:19:12 they also haven't implemented 90 degree rotation Nov 13 16:19:33 older palms were more like 160x160 Nov 13 16:19:38 you have to uncheck fullscreen pupnik_ Nov 13 16:19:48 ok Nov 13 16:19:50 and it does the portrait mode Nov 13 16:19:59 heh it does?? sorry Nov 13 16:20:01 but still small Nov 13 16:20:28 they are asking for feedback... Nov 13 16:21:54 I doubt they can do anything about that screen res. doesn't it mean rewriting the 30,000+ apps they have out there? Nov 13 16:22:10 to support a bigger screen res Nov 13 16:23:14 the whitepaper says the display is done on the Linux side, so no reason why they couldn't Nov 13 16:23:59 Presumably they could remove the scribble area at least Nov 13 16:25:13 unique311: there are apps which can tell things to use the 480x320 res of a Sony PEG-UX50 Nov 13 16:25:26 Grafitti should be optional if you've got an N810 Nov 13 16:26:07 you can hide the graffiti Nov 13 16:26:21 theirs a down arrow. that allows this Nov 13 16:32:51 unique311: that requires app support, though, doesn' it? Nov 13 16:33:34 its does. Nov 13 16:44:51 many palm libs are missing from the wm Nov 13 16:46:33 ~lart WinXP for just losing at its icons Nov 13 16:46:33 * infobot gets a hotmal account and SPAMs WinXP for just losing at its icons Nov 13 16:48:02 bye Nov 13 16:48:37 hmmm shud i download the 770 or the 800 verion of garnetvm for 2007he on 770? Nov 13 16:48:42 im guessin 800? Nov 13 16:49:09 I would default to the n800 version and fall back to the 770 version if that doesn't work Nov 13 16:49:26 k thanks, ill give it a whirl Nov 13 16:52:08 atarri: n800 Nov 13 17:00:21 hmmm, just found a gvm conf file that has a screensize set to 320x480 Nov 13 17:00:31 maybe it can be changed. Nov 13 17:01:00 looks like other roms can possibly be used. Nov 13 17:16:16 Network Support would be nice for the Garnet VM... Nov 13 17:18:37 ...did anyone test some network apps? Network support is listed. But I can find anything in the prefs... Nov 13 17:19:08 i did...seems only for hotsync right now Nov 13 17:19:16 Ah. Ok. Nov 13 17:19:39 i think the vm can use a different rom. Nov 13 17:19:47 have to try that out. Nov 13 17:49:13 hey, how long does the upload to maemo extras usually take? Nov 13 17:51:53 konttori: not long Nov 13 17:52:07 ahh.. I am trying to get ukmp there Nov 13 17:52:17 I signed the deb with gpg. Nov 13 17:52:25 I have the gpgs file and the deb file. Nov 13 17:52:48 Ah. maemo.org seems fscked Nov 13 17:52:53 I then used scp to upload both to extras/incoming/chinook Nov 13 17:52:56 Garage commit is taking ages Nov 13 17:53:24 Am I missing something? I mean, how can I know if I did it right? Nov 13 17:57:02 anyway, just thought to ask as you have done it a few times Jaffa Nov 13 18:33:23 Does anyone know if the bug tracker is currently sending out emails at all? My account creation mail never arrived Nov 13 18:34:33 woa, garnet software on the tablets?! Nov 13 18:49:22 hi Nov 13 19:17:12 hello world Nov 13 19:17:19 what color depth does maemo use? :) Nov 13 19:17:54 16 bits Nov 13 19:20:20 i'm trying to setup a maemo dev environment and have some questions (probably will ask them a little later) - is this the right channel for that sort of discussion? I looked and could not find a maemo-dev channel Nov 13 19:20:37 yes. Nov 13 19:20:47 good. Thanks. Nov 13 19:31:19 evening Nov 13 19:31:30 how long does it take between garage registration and login on maemo.org ? Nov 13 19:36:38 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:36:40 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:36:46 WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:36:52 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:37:05 guardian: a few minutes or more Nov 13 19:37:12 guardian: for me, I think it was at least 15 Nov 13 19:37:20 registered this morning Nov 13 19:37:20 it shouldn't take long but I registered to garage on Friday and the account still doesn't work in maemo.org, there must be something wrong Nov 13 19:37:23 still cannot login Nov 13 19:37:31 k Nov 13 19:38:02 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:38:06 WRAARRRR!!! I has the Cookies Tooo! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:38:12 WRAARRRR!!! I'm the Tomato Monstahhhhh! WRAARRRR!!! Nov 13 19:39:52 is the ITOS2008 available ? Nov 13 19:43:08 why do we never have ops in channel? Nov 13 19:43:13 b0unc3`, no Nov 13 19:44:26 btw, is anyone else getting the maemo-devel mails in "random" order? Nov 13 19:48:39 the last 9 appear to be in order Nov 13 19:49:02 weird. I've been getting mine in a "random" order for a month (ever since I subbed again) Nov 13 19:49:16 reponses to some discussions come before the original questions, etc. Nov 13 19:50:09 Toni_is an op, he's just not opped right now Nov 13 19:50:24 czr: spam/virus/etc. filtering can often cause that Nov 13 19:50:38 elb, not on my side at least. Nov 13 19:51:02 although not sure whether the confusion arises in iki.fi relay smtp. just annoying. Nov 13 19:51:14 but they shouldn't be doing any filtering either methinks. Nov 13 19:53:33 sp3000: i finished writing my next blog article :) Nov 13 19:55:33 I am looking for an hackable internet tablet with GSM that can be used in tractors in fields Nov 13 19:58:17 s/GSM/GPS/ ? Nov 13 19:59:17 err. I mean something like GPRS, to use instant messaging for example Nov 13 20:03:42 these tablets just have wlan, or they can use a phone's gprs over bluetooth Nov 13 20:05:02 kaltsi: both Nov 13 20:05:50 I think that was a statement, not a question, in response to KwisatzHaderach's question ;-) Nov 13 20:05:57 I think so too :) Nov 13 20:06:07 ops... sorry :) Nov 13 20:06:18 heh Nov 13 20:06:24 thank you ;) Nov 13 20:17:31 i wonder if some non-microwave telemetry via USB would work for KwisatzHaderach Nov 13 20:21:36 It would be for farmer workers, to write their work time on the tablet. The tablet has to query some internet servers Nov 13 20:25:44 then they're perfect, since with a tablet paired to an existing cell phone, they aren't locked into any one service Nov 13 20:27:12 does aircrack work on the tablet ? Nov 13 20:28:18 brb Nov 13 20:33:07 * Jaffa adds some more stock photograph to http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/ Nov 13 20:33:18 ...but it's now time to watch /Heroes/ Nov 13 21:06:40 re Nov 13 22:00:19 hi all Nov 13 22:54:44 when when when when... Nov 13 22:58:13 I'm having some trouble getting maemo in scratchbox working on my ubuntu gutsy Nov 13 22:58:42 when I do apt-get update inside scratchbox, I get Nov 13 22:58:48 W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-i386_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) Nov 13 22:59:09 along with some stuff about not being able to resolve repository.maemo.org Nov 13 22:59:33 the file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-i386_Packages is missing, because it couldn't contact repository.maemo.org and so it was never created Nov 13 22:59:59 99% of the time it's because you don't have dns set up correctly Nov 13 23:00:06 pumpkin_, in sbox, grep hosts /etc/nsswitch.conf Nov 13 23:00:25 db48x, or to be precise, it's becase sbox setup breaks it :-) Nov 13 23:00:39 czr: yea :) Nov 13 23:01:01 db48x: it says hosts: files dns Nov 13 23:01:02 pumpkin_, anyhow, replace the hosts like with this: hosts: files dns Nov 13 23:01:04 ah ok Nov 13 23:01:12 pumpkin_, what does /etc/resolv.conf say (in sbox) Nov 13 23:01:20 hmm Nov 13 23:01:26 has nameserver set to localhost :P Nov 13 23:01:28 ok Nov 13 23:01:30 that doesn't sound right Nov 13 23:01:32 lol Nov 13 23:01:32 install dnsmasq on the host ;-) Nov 13 23:01:37 then it will "magically just work" Nov 13 23:01:51 plus it has the benefit of working even if your host will get a different ip from dhcp Nov 13 23:01:56 no need to touch the resolv.conf within sbox Nov 13 23:02:01 cool Nov 13 23:02:22 normally people modify the resolv.conf to their real dns, but it seems slightly silly when dnsmasq just fixes the whole situation Nov 13 23:02:33 yeah Nov 13 23:02:35 cool Nov 13 23:02:42 yeah dnsmasq rocks Nov 13 23:02:45 btw, no need to conf dnsmasq. install will set it up with proper defaults Nov 13 23:02:54 hmm Nov 13 23:02:56 then try doing generic ping tests within sbox to test dns Nov 13 23:03:01 still can't resolve it, inside my scratchbox Nov 13 23:03:05 hmmh Nov 13 23:03:07 and sbox doesn't have ping installed :( Nov 13 23:03:14 try wget http://www.google.com/ Nov 13 23:03:20 that will do a dns resolution as well Nov 13 23:03:28 yeah Nov 13 23:03:30 that works, hmm Nov 13 23:03:31 odd Nov 13 23:03:59 you might want to reinstall the sdk though (sbox should be ok now) Nov 13 23:04:14 not sure how the "automatical install scripts" deal with dns problems. probably not all too well. Nov 13 23:04:20 ah Nov 13 23:04:22 or try running apt-get update; apt-get -f install Nov 13 23:04:28 * czr shrugs Nov 13 23:04:42 reinstalling the sdk Nov 13 23:04:54 * czr nods Nov 13 23:05:01 not including ping is a very strange thing Nov 13 23:05:01 yell if you run into more trouble :-) Nov 13 23:05:06 thanks :) Nov 13 23:05:07 not really :-) Nov 13 23:05:12 maybe it's just not in my path Nov 13 23:05:17 sounds like a refrain from an operetta... Nov 13 23:05:18 I'll take a look when I finish reinstalling it Nov 13 23:05:40 pumpkin_, using gutsy in couple of the test vms I have too Nov 13 23:06:05 other than the dns issue, no problems so far Nov 13 23:07:52 hmm Nov 13 23:09:14 still not resolving repository.maemo.org :-/ Nov 13 23:10:20 wget on repository.maemo.org works fine though Nov 13 23:10:22 boo Nov 13 23:11:04 weird Nov 13 23:11:11 do you have http_proxy set? Nov 13 23:11:16 nope Nov 13 23:11:21 running it in a vm though Nov 13 23:11:26 shouldn't affect it though Nov 13 23:11:26 shouldn't be an issue Nov 13 23:11:37 hrm Nov 13 23:12:33 if you're on a fast link, I'd just shutdown sbox and remove the sbox packages on the host and rm -Rf /scratchbox and let the installer run again Nov 13 23:12:52 sure, I am, Nov 13 23:13:02 you could try that. now that you have dnsmasq and all :-) Nov 13 23:13:05 remove the sbox packages? Nov 13 23:13:22 yeah. dpkg --purge remove scratchbox* Nov 13 23:13:38 or apt-get --purge remove scratchbox* (the asterisk might actually work) Nov 13 23:13:47 it won't Nov 13 23:13:51 oh Nov 13 23:13:59 your shell will try to expand it as a list of filenames in the current directory Nov 13 23:14:13 weird, how did this happen Nov 13 23:14:16 db48x, I'm assuming that cwd does not contain any names that start with that Nov 13 23:14:23 it's not letting me delete it cause there's a circular link Nov 13 23:14:26 db48x, in that case the shell will leave the asterisk alone Nov 13 23:14:58 czr: better to quote it Nov 13 23:15:01 pumpkin_, hmm. did you exit sbox and shut sbox down? Nov 13 23:15:11 db48x, sure Nov 13 23:15:16 lol, I decided to really start from scratch Nov 13 23:15:40 and restore from a vm snapshot from just before installing maemo and scratchbox Nov 13 23:15:52 that will work too. just install dnsmasq first :-) Nov 13 23:15:57 yup doing that now Nov 13 23:16:06 yea Nov 13 23:16:14 that's what I do too Nov 13 23:16:21 can I install 3.2 directly, or do I need to do 3.1 first again? Nov 13 23:16:38 read the readme file Nov 13 23:16:40 pumpkin_, aren't you installing 4.0? Nov 13 23:16:43 oh I could Nov 13 23:16:53 but I was scared away by the big beta sign on it Nov 13 23:16:59 it's not beta anymore Nov 13 23:17:02 but Nov 13 23:17:06 IT2008 is not out yet Nov 13 23:17:17 it's fine for N800 development? Nov 13 23:17:19 so if you plan to deploy sw on ITs, it will be interesting :-) Nov 13 23:17:33 pumpkin_, not yet. unless your N800 is running 2008 Nov 13 23:17:39 oh Nov 13 23:17:42 so I should stick with 3.2? Nov 13 23:17:54 probably yes Nov 13 23:18:12 I don't know when 2008 will be released for N800. Nov 13 23:18:13 so I have to start with 3.1 and upgrade, right? Nov 13 23:18:16 yes Nov 13 23:18:16 ah Nov 13 23:18:31 after 2008 is avail for N800, you should use 4.0/chinook. Nov 13 23:19:08 actually, it's kinda funny Nov 13 23:19:22 scratchbox is an attempt to avoid using a virtual machine for the whole OS Nov 13 23:19:37 instead using the VM just to run the single program you're developing Nov 13 23:19:43 :P Nov 13 23:19:49 and yet we all run it inside a VM because it's so annoying Nov 13 23:20:13 although sbox was never meant to be a vm. just a fancy chroot Nov 13 23:20:18 but yes :-) Nov 13 23:20:28 is the os2008 available for n800? anyone tried flash the n800 with this firmware: RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Nov 13 23:20:48 juh0, where did you get that? Nov 13 23:21:18 ummm downloaded it from nokia www-site Nov 13 23:21:21 ah. the RX-44 is for N810 Nov 13 23:21:43 although hmm. you can always try to flash it :-) Nov 13 23:21:52 just don't blame me if it bricks the device ;-) Nov 13 23:24:08 juh0: let us know how it goes :) Nov 13 23:26:11 * czr decides to hiberante Nov 13 23:26:13 night all -. Nov 13 23:26:15 -> even. Nov 13 23:28:46 night :) thanks for the help Nov 13 23:29:01 Mmmm blow away xloader...yummy Nov 13 23:32:12 Anybody happen to have a valid N810 WLAN MAC taking up space anywhere? :P Nov 13 23:48:06 boo Nov 13 23:48:15 even after reinstalling the whole thing Nov 13 23:48:18 it doesn't worky Nov 13 23:49:09 nsswitch? Nov 13 23:49:10 <_Monkey> it has been said that nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get Nov 13 23:49:25 nsswitch.conf and resolv.conf look ok Nov 13 23:49:53 nah, mine says files dns too Nov 13 23:50:02 oh Nov 13 23:50:06 I'll go look in the host Nov 13 23:51:32 sweet! Nov 13 23:51:32 thanks Nov 14 00:02:37 yep it got os2008 on N800 now :D Nov 14 00:02:56 woot Nov 14 00:06:20 Hehe Nov 14 00:06:22 Just now flashing. Nov 14 00:07:10 Sweet Nov 14 00:08:48 so has anyone tryed to install chinook on the 770? Nov 14 00:08:52 juh0: the n810 version worked? Nov 14 00:09:16 yep Nov 14 00:09:31 you need use linux flasher Nov 14 00:10:43 well yeah, any tips on getting the flash image? since it is a 770 it is failing the download authentication nonesense Nov 14 00:11:03 The flash-2.0.macosx for OS X works, too. Nov 14 00:14:18 anyone know where else it is hosted or feels like giving the chanel the hardware address of an n800? Nov 14 00:15:37 instructions to get os2008 working on n800 http://pastebin.com/m16dd5937 Nov 14 00:17:01 ooo, thanks juh0 Nov 14 00:17:56 so has anyone actually tryed Chinook on a 770? Nov 14 00:18:40 because my 770 is running Bora now, so the hardware is not that different Nov 14 00:18:54 Software update for Nokia N800 tablet leaks, fans go ga-ga. http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html?tag=head Nov 14 00:19:25 hephaestus_, Chinook WILL NOT WORK ON THE 770. Nov 14 00:19:35 hola Nov 14 00:19:41 You'll have to wait for an OS2008HE Nov 14 00:20:28 * pupnik holds breath Nov 14 00:33:05 really? 2008 requires a serial number? Nov 14 00:33:07 !foss Nov 14 00:33:56 doc|work: the source is still freely available Nov 14 00:34:16 just binaries aren't? Nov 14 00:34:20 many people have trouble with the concept of free software Nov 14 00:34:22 yea Nov 14 00:34:30 but it's been like that from the beginning Nov 14 00:34:39 ah, ok, so, the article's fud? Nov 14 00:34:49 * doc|work is waiting for his n800 to arrive :/ Nov 14 00:35:11 the article is correct Nov 14 00:35:11 which article? many of them are Nov 14 00:35:19 your exclamation about "!foss" is FUD Nov 14 00:35:43 yea Nov 14 00:35:54 was a joke :/ Nov 14 00:36:14 (note that there *is* software on the Nokia tablets which is not open source, and the license they are under is available for your review) Nov 14 00:36:40 just seemed odd that a serial was necessary and that it might be held back to "allow the n810 to shine" Nov 14 00:36:58 that's not so odd Nov 14 00:38:06 anyone got the bogomips for an n800 running os2007? from /proc/cpuinfo Nov 14 00:38:28 howto? Nov 14 00:38:29 <_Monkey> it has been said that howto is the maemo community HowTo Wiki - http://maemo.org/community/wiki/HowTo Nov 14 00:38:38 cat /proc/cpuinfo Nov 14 00:38:52 320.37 Nov 14 00:38:52 BogoMIPS will be listed near the top Nov 14 00:38:58 no way... really? Nov 14 00:39:02 388.54 Nov 14 00:39:04 ah yes Nov 14 00:39:07 For 2008 Nov 14 00:39:10 Right. Nov 14 00:39:11 Ha Nov 14 00:39:11 i think it's about 1:1 on clock speed Nov 14 00:39:18 interesting, for OS2008 mine is 160.68! :) Nov 14 00:39:36 huh Nov 14 00:39:37 Also: return in fullscreen keyboard in xterm finally sends the command. Nov 14 00:39:58 388 would approximate to the CPU running at about 400mhz I guess Nov 14 00:40:17 so why is yours only 160? Nov 14 00:40:17 anyone know how to check the current CPU speed? Nov 14 00:40:25 db48x - looks that way! :) Nov 14 00:40:36 i'll reboot it and see if I get a different figure Nov 14 00:40:48 (note that bogomips are more or less completely meaningless on basically all platforms) Nov 14 00:41:02 i know, but pretty much all there is... Nov 14 00:41:02 i got 388.54 bogomips Nov 14 00:41:30 but wow the os2008 is really fast Nov 14 00:41:32 boots a damn site quicker than 2007 :) Nov 14 00:41:54 \p/ Nov 14 00:41:54 nice to see xterm included, although i'm not convinced by the "improvements" Nov 14 00:41:56 it sounds like the CPU speed change is with throttling, so your CPU won't be any given speed at any given point in time, anykway Nov 14 00:42:30 can't wait to see transflective screen Nov 14 00:42:42 booted it and bogomips is 160.68 again Nov 14 00:42:47 but that dpad looks... not quite game compatible Nov 14 00:43:07 elb: I'm sure it's just a matter of time until someone creates a "load" type applet that displays the current frequency. or something. Nov 14 00:43:30 rss reader manages to show fewer items than the old version - genius! Nov 14 00:43:31 I don't know if the architecture supports it, but if what you *really* want to know is what speed the CPU is currently running, check /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq Nov 14 00:44:08 (I do not yet have a device, so I don't know if cpufreq is accessed the same as it is on other architectures) Nov 14 00:44:11 Anybody have a link to the website with all the NIT repos? Nov 14 00:44:15 165000 here - so that 165Mhz Nov 14 00:44:15 Listed all the packages and such? Nov 14 00:44:21 s/that/thats/ Nov 14 00:44:21 milhouse meant: 165000 here - so thats 165Mhz Nov 14 00:44:23 (thanks elb) Nov 14 00:44:45 if you did something CPU intensive, I presume that would crank up to as much as 400MHz Nov 14 00:44:57 cpu_max_freq and cpu_min_freq may also be informative Nov 14 00:45:03 so i have an interesting problem, im on a network with WPA enterprise, using tls and a User Cert/Authaurity pair, and my 770 Running bora cant seem to handel the cert correctly, when i try to connect it asks me for my cert password tehn imeadiatly fails to connect, any ideas how to get debug info for the network connection so i can start to track down the problem? Nov 14 00:46:46 mine seems to bounce between 165Mhz and 400Mhz - nothing in between Nov 14 00:47:45 you would need a work load that continually utilized more than 165MHz but left the processor significantly idle at 400MHz to see something else Nov 14 00:48:01 on my laptop, I normally see either the slowest or fastest speed, as well Nov 14 00:48:33 400000 here ;) Nov 14 00:48:36 Restoring my IT2008 backup as we speak. :D Nov 14 00:48:54 hmm Nov 14 00:49:07 I want to nitrogen cool my 770 Nov 14 00:49:09 so what happens if I restore a backup that was taken with IT2007? Nov 14 00:51:25 Worked fine for me, db48x. Nov 14 00:51:54 Me too. Nov 14 00:52:43 Goodness Nov 14 00:52:47 This thing really screams. Nov 14 00:53:46 anyone know the command line arguments to have the 770 or n800 connect to a network with any debug info, or where to find a logfile? Nov 14 00:53:52 GeneralAntilles: turn the volume down Nov 14 00:54:00 ;) Nov 14 00:54:27 anyone succeeded in installing Skype on OS2008? Nov 14 00:54:37 Not I. Nov 14 00:54:54 so it's not just me then :) Nov 14 00:54:57 hmm Nov 14 00:55:11 I need to install that too. I heard that my Grandmother was complaining that I hadn't been on Nov 14 00:55:31 Ha Nov 14 00:56:14 this frequency scaling worries me - the device seems to pause briefly before it switches up to 400Mhz Nov 14 00:57:16 Better than having no battery life. ;) Nov 14 00:57:29 that remains to be seen :) Nov 14 00:57:37 what will the new battery life be like? Nov 14 00:57:48 Probably about the same Nov 14 00:57:57 More power + scaling = similar battery life. Nov 14 00:57:58 cool Nov 14 00:58:03 there must be some improvment... maybe an extra hour? Nov 14 00:58:04 worksforme! Nov 14 00:58:14 had there been no scaling before? Nov 14 00:58:19 none at all Nov 14 00:58:20 wow Nov 14 00:58:37 what do you mean by "pause briefly" ? Nov 14 00:58:48 if you mean that there is some hysteresis, that is good Nov 14 00:58:56 Awesome.. "Display stays lit when charging" option! ;D Nov 14 00:58:58 assuming it spends most of it's time running at 165Mhz (which seems the minimum freq) instead of 330Mhz the battery will probably last a little longer than it did before... Nov 14 00:59:21 does watching a movie bump the cpu up? Nov 14 00:59:23 elb: it's like lag... maybe for half a second to a full second Nov 14 00:59:31 Yeah, zerojay, the LED options are a nice feature, too. Nov 14 00:59:41 I'll actually turn the damn thing on now. Nov 14 00:59:43 on most processors, there are lost cycles in changing the frequency (and lost cycles means lost power), so you don't *want* it to changae frequency for a tiny burst of CPU usage Nov 14 01:00:04 milhouse: do you mean the whole thing freezes up, or that it simply takes it a second to decide to kick up to 400MHz? Nov 14 01:00:35 elb: both - it seems to pause, and then it continues once it has switched up to 400Mhz Nov 14 01:01:01 zerojay: nice nice Nov 14 01:01:03 i'm just running a simple terminal session via ssh which is logging the current freq every second - that pauses too when switching up (but not down) Nov 14 01:01:04 I have a hard time believing that the whole thing freezes up when it changes frequency Nov 14 01:01:08 or that it is supposed to Nov 14 01:01:23 playing BBC Radio 1 real audio stream and my cpu is chugging along at 330Mhz Nov 14 01:01:26 now, accessing /sys/devices/system/cpu/... *may* pause, that's is entirely likely Nov 14 01:01:27 I'm not seeing the effect you're describing, milhouse. Nov 14 01:01:44 maybe it's something else then Nov 14 01:01:54 hope it is - this freq scaling is a major feature Nov 14 01:01:56 you're not likely to learn anything *useful* watching that like a hawk ;-) Nov 14 01:02:29 Working d-pad scrolling in MicroB is another nice one. Nov 14 01:03:17 Watching the Nokia N810 video and the CPU is running at 330Mhz Nov 14 01:03:33 might hit 400Mhz with a higher bitrate perhaps Nov 14 01:03:51 Different ring tones.. not more, but different ones. Nov 14 01:03:54 Except ring ring. Nov 14 01:05:45 So... Android on Nokia 770s? Can It happen? Nov 14 01:06:12 meh Nov 14 01:06:16 i find the new scrolling rss reader applet confusing - it looks like it's got a scrollbar, but you can't drag it Nov 14 01:06:47 and i'm lucky if i get about 5 articles per screen now Nov 14 01:07:45 at least the main RSS application has improved drag scrolling - the previous versions sucked big time Nov 14 01:08:28 I've yet to see something I didn't like. Nov 14 01:08:49 milhouse: it moves by itself, it can't be worse!!111 Nov 14 01:08:55 * sp3000 rolls eyes Nov 14 01:09:11 the presence icon looks out of place with the new monochrome status bar icons Nov 14 01:09:41 has anyone here used a N810 yet? Nov 14 01:09:44 and there seems to be some confusion whether apps should use thin or thick scrollbars - the "look" is still a little disjointed Nov 14 01:09:50 SIP actually works right now. Nov 14 01:09:56 milhouse: It it was more outlinish, it would look better, but harder to tell if you're online or not. Nov 14 01:10:00 GeneralAntilles: RTCOMM. :) Nov 14 01:10:12 so, who is going to package openssh? Nov 14 01:10:20 db48x - already there Nov 14 01:10:21 I just installed openssh Nov 14 01:10:24 Enable Extras Nov 14 01:10:31 Where? Nov 14 01:10:42 Application Manager Nov 14 01:10:42 <_Monkey> Application Manager is maemo's GUI over apt Nov 14 01:10:55 zerojay - in extra, then install it from App Manager (openssh, openssh-client or openssh-server) Nov 14 01:11:01 Not sure if I like the Mac OS-style zooming box outlines. Nov 14 01:11:05 openssh installs both client and server Nov 14 01:11:29 ah, I didn't realize it was disabled Nov 14 01:11:37 I only saw that it was in the list Nov 14 01:11:51 is the feel/flow of os2008 faster for the common tasks? Nov 14 01:12:05 So far, it feels that way. Nov 14 01:12:10 Snappier Nov 14 01:12:33 depends on your common tasks :) Nov 14 01:12:38 youtube is finally usable Nov 14 01:12:46 It was before. Nov 14 01:12:51 no it wasnt Nov 14 01:12:56 It was Nov 14 01:13:00 it just wasn't optimal Nov 14 01:13:09 Wanna see something even better? Nov 14 01:13:14 Go to m.youtube.com. Nov 14 01:13:19 Play a video from there. Nov 14 01:13:23 Even smoother. Nov 14 01:13:27 full framerate. Nov 14 01:13:42 Direct in media player. Nov 14 01:15:08 milhouse: I don't see extra anywhere. Nov 14 01:15:28 In the catalog listing Nov 14 01:15:34 Icon is grayed Nov 14 01:15:40 oh, ok. Nov 14 01:16:44 Wonder if media player works with maemoscrobbler.. doubt it, but who knows. Nov 14 01:21:07 scrobbler is stuck on 8m44s. probably needs a reboot. Nov 14 01:21:27 right... one of my bugs is now fixed in OS 2008 - do i mark it as verified or closed? Nov 14 01:21:46 bug 1955 if anyone is interested - bug in microb Nov 14 01:21:47 <_Monkey> Bug 1955 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1955 Nov 14 01:21:58 milhouse: Mark it verified. Nov 14 01:22:04 ok ta Nov 14 01:22:13 milhouse: The Nokia people will close it once they are satisifed. Nov 14 01:23:17 Nice. Nov 14 01:23:21 think i'll hold off verifying any more bugs... they might freak with all these bugs being closed in an unreleased OS! :) Nov 14 01:23:26 lol. Nov 14 01:23:32 Doubt it. :) Nov 14 01:23:42 Hmmm . . . how the hell do I stop this thing from auto-capitalizing? Nov 14 01:23:50 There's an option. Nov 14 01:23:53 Always been there. Nov 14 01:24:03 Can't remember the name. Nov 14 01:24:05 Wasn't it in text input settings, though? Nov 14 01:24:10 yes Nov 14 01:24:19 it still is there Nov 14 01:24:39 milhouse: We should probably make a list of bugs fixed so we can present it all together. Nov 14 01:25:20 i go through all my bugs with each new release :) Nov 14 01:25:29 Same here. Nov 14 01:25:31 all my bugs being any bug i've opened or commented against Nov 14 01:26:02 sadly i end up posting comments such as "Still not fixed in x.y.z" :( Nov 14 01:26:31 Yeah, i know the feeling. Nov 14 01:27:01 "Handwriting case correction" != "Auto-capitalize" Nov 14 01:27:36 PDF reader allows page switching in full screen mode with left or right on the d-pad. Nov 14 01:27:37 xterm seems to be cloning my text entry in the thumbboard Nov 14 01:27:51 i mean how difficult is it to change "clips" to "songs" in media player? bug 1064 is typical of Nokia and their "specifications", makes me mad... Nov 14 01:27:52 <_Monkey> Bug 1064 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1064 Nov 14 01:28:07 milhouse: People here call them clips as well. Nov 14 01:28:23 i've never heard anyone call a song a clip - a film, yes, but not a song Nov 14 01:28:45 where is here, btw? Nov 14 01:28:51 Here they do.. here being Canada. Nov 14 01:28:59 wierdos Nov 14 01:29:04 :) Nov 14 01:29:11 "clip" means something different from song, here (en_US) Nov 14 01:29:12 But it's something that french people do more than english here. Nov 14 01:29:32 that might make sense - it's not really an english term at all Nov 14 01:29:35 I'll bet it's just a mistranslation that never got fixed. Nov 14 01:29:35 What's the root password? Nov 14 01:29:36 <_Monkey> the root password is rootme Nov 14 01:29:37 a "clip" is a perfectly normal term for an audio file, but it implies that it is only part of a larger work Nov 14 01:29:43 like, the first 30s might be a "clip" Nov 14 01:29:44 Lies, _Monkey. Nov 14 01:29:44 <_Monkey> GeneralAntilles: sorry... Nov 14 01:30:14 Yeah, I've never heard anybody refer to a "song" as a "clip" or a collection of music as "clips" Nov 14 01:30:27 elb: possibly, but i'd associate clips more strongly with movie/film media than audio which has a clear and simple term of reference on a media player - song (or track) Nov 14 01:30:44 Who wants to try internet call? ;) Nov 14 01:30:47 right, for a complete piece, "song" is obviously the correct term Nov 14 01:30:54 hrm Nov 14 01:30:57 Just a minute or two to try it out. :) Nov 14 01:31:00 but "audio clip" is a normal and often-used term -- just misplaced, here Nov 14 01:31:04 no more typing suggestions in xterms? Nov 14 01:31:14 although of course not all tracks will be songs, could be audio books so track might be a more general and still accurate term :) Nov 14 01:31:48 my point is though, that it's probably taken longer to debate the point in bugzilla than it would to actually fix the bug in the first place - which hasn't been fixed! :) Nov 14 01:32:08 Internet call now disables and greys out contacts not on Jabber/Gmail or does not have a phone number associated. Nov 14 01:32:15 ah, completions were simply turned off Nov 14 01:32:38 Any clues on the root password? Nov 14 01:32:45 rootme? Nov 14 01:32:45 <_Monkey> rootme is the default pw? Nov 14 01:32:49 same as always Nov 14 01:32:56 rootme isn't work. :\ Nov 14 01:33:07 you sure you're logging in as root? worked for me... Nov 14 01:33:10 *+ing Nov 14 01:33:14 get into rd mode and use 'sudo gainroot' Nov 14 01:33:42 can maemomapper show a cached satellite pic while offline? Nov 14 01:34:27 It always has been able to, yes. Nov 14 01:34:37 ok ty Nov 14 01:39:56 d-pad scrolling in the browser seems to work well Nov 14 01:40:24 i'm trying to imagine my thumb being able to hit dpad-up and it's not working Nov 14 01:41:05 yeah could be tricky on an n810, plus any key on the top row Nov 14 01:42:33 Hi Folks, thinking (seriously) about getting an N800 and am trying to figure out what is available for it - would like to replace my Palm Z31 with it, things like jpilot and perhaps kontact - dunno yet :-). Much to learn. Nov 14 01:42:52 Just gonna read the mail for a bit here... Nov 14 01:43:26 check the itt website it now has a palm os forum Nov 14 01:45:00 Thanks, but I am pretty fed up with Palm, they used to be stellar, but that was a while back - buggy hardware and software do not inspire me, but linux embedded does :-)! Nov 14 01:45:41 FBReader is a BIG plus :-) considering I probably use the Z31 for more of an ebook reader than anything else. Nov 14 01:46:24 Organizer and scheduler I can sync with the desktop would loosen my wallet NOW :-). Nov 14 01:46:54 Looking at apps over on the maemo site now. Nov 14 01:47:30 Kind of confused at this point - is the 2007 OS Nokia or maemo, appear to be the same?!? Nov 14 01:47:50 it's the same Nov 14 01:48:36 the os itself is called ITOS. ITOS 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Nov 14 01:49:15 and Maemo is the organisation that creates each IT OS, staffed by Nokia employees Nov 14 01:49:19 Coolness, thanks! Was introduced to the 770 and I like that a lot, but the 800 seems a bit cheezier and the 810 worse :-(. Nov 14 01:49:37 Smart folks :-)! Appreciated too. Nov 14 01:49:44 N800 is the way to go Nov 14 01:49:48 Don't bother with the N810 Nov 14 01:50:00 * K`zan linux junkie / freak / affectionado :). Nov 14 01:50:24 looking forward to having you around to test software Nov 14 01:50:42 Thanks, that is the impression I get too, primarily beacause of the RS-MMC that are either unobtanium or damned expensive :-). Nov 14 01:51:02 WOuld be glad to help out where I can - always with linux :-)!!!! Nov 14 01:51:26 all options are good. 770, N800, N810 - for different reasons Nov 14 01:51:33 Like the physical aspects of the 770 better than the 800, but.... Nov 14 01:51:52 Must be why they make so many different types :). Nov 14 01:52:00 Big fingers :-). Nov 14 01:52:02 yeah 770 is a rock. dropped mine many times Nov 14 01:52:31 Sad thing is that it is about a wash price wise by the time one adds an RS-MMC :-(. Nov 14 01:52:50 really? what is 2GB rsmmc? Nov 14 01:52:51 up to 16G on the 800 is rather impressive :-). Nov 14 01:53:00 +price Nov 14 01:53:08 I forget now, but MUCH more than a 2G SD card. Nov 14 01:53:45 That is what has had me balking on getting the 800, but I am now about a 10th of a nats wisker from ordering it :-). Nov 14 01:53:47 pupnik, maybe, but not when you consider price. :P Nov 14 01:53:49 the N800 also runs a bunch of games that the 770 cant quite handle Nov 14 01:53:51 800 is faster too. Nov 14 01:54:21 I've only dropped my n800 once. Nov 14 01:54:25 so far, so good. Nov 14 01:54:29 If I can use it as a pda with the desktop stuff, that clenches the deal... Nov 14 01:54:45 it's the requisite "must drop each mobile device at least one time" Nov 14 01:54:55 dunno who here knows about syncing scheduler - ITT forums is the best place to search for that stuff Nov 14 01:54:58 hah Nov 14 01:55:03 REAL tired of the screen requiring constant calibration on the Z31 (or screwing around to compensate for it). Nov 14 01:55:28 if you're outside much, the N810 screen is said to be daylight readable Nov 14 01:55:39 First thing I do with anything new anymore is scratch it with a key so I am over worrying about it all :-) Lol1 Nov 14 01:55:49 gah Nov 14 01:55:56 That would be nice, the Z31 is completely useless in that department... Nov 14 01:56:09 Old Vx/C3 was quite usable. Nov 14 01:56:12 so is my psion netbook (dstn tft) Nov 14 01:56:15 that was really nice about the old school palms with their B&W displays Nov 14 01:56:25 yes, and the psion mx5 too Nov 14 01:56:27 Yep and batteries lasted FOREVER. Nov 14 01:56:30 you could use them absolutely anywhere Nov 14 01:56:37 Yep, unlike the Z31 Nov 14 01:56:38 yeah, I put new AAAs in my IIIc ... seldom Nov 14 01:56:59 :-). Ran the C3 for years and battery was never a problem. Nov 14 01:57:00 maybe 2-3 times a *year* Nov 14 01:57:12 I use it a LOT more for an ebook reader than anything else. Nov 14 01:57:18 of course, the old Palms cheated, a bit, in that they went to sleep after just a few ms of idle time Nov 14 01:57:21 Good for something to do in checkout lines :). Nov 14 01:57:27 and the only thing that was refreshed was that cheap, cheap, cheap LCD Nov 14 01:57:47 Yep, true, no color, only 8M of flash.... Nov 14 01:58:07 Shame palm has gotten so sleezy since then :-(. Nov 14 01:58:20 are maps downloading for anyone? Nov 14 01:58:30 my download progress bar is stuck and not moving Nov 14 01:58:52 Wonder if gpsdrive or roadnav works on the 800?!? Nov 14 01:59:15 there is a GPS kit for the 800 Nov 14 01:59:24 Would be nice to plug in the GPSMAP76CS. Nov 14 01:59:25 which includes software, the GPS unit, and maps Nov 14 01:59:37 (I think OS2008 will have the maps built-in, yes?) Nov 14 01:59:45 Already spent my GPS fortune on the Garmin :-/. Nov 14 02:00:00 aha it's advancing very very slowly (the map download progress bar) :) Nov 14 02:00:10 heh I carry an eTrex Legend with me everywhere I go Nov 14 02:00:26 K`zan, maemo mapper Nov 14 02:00:34 or Navicore Nov 14 02:00:35 GeneralAntilles: Thanks, good to know. Nov 14 02:00:42 I wouldn't bother with the kit Nov 14 02:00:56 Get an i-blue 737 or some other MTK based bluetooth GPS Nov 14 02:01:22 Silly newbie question, can one raid the debian / ubuntu repositories for stuff for the n800 or only maemo? Yeah, I really am seriously ignorant at this point and working hard to resolve it :).' Nov 14 02:01:50 GeneralAntilles: Hadn't thought of that - nicer package wise. Nov 14 02:01:52 you need to download maps if you use n800 and os2008, i just tested bluetooth gps receiver with os2008's wayfinder Nov 14 02:02:13 The debian stuff has to be recompiled Nov 14 02:02:18 not 100% straightforward Nov 14 02:02:23 Heh, not even sure which OS the one I am lookjng at comes with, but that appears not to be a problem. Nov 14 02:02:25 the GUI stuff has to be ported for Hildon Nov 14 02:02:39 Makes sense, There is an SDK I notice. Nov 14 02:02:41 K`zan: They're a good starting point but you'll generally need to do some repackaging, even for non-GUI things. Nov 14 02:02:56 Currently running fedora, which I am not sure I'll stick with at this point. Nov 14 02:03:34 derf: Not a great problem, unlike the Palm crap, I have a far better start with the n800, I think. Nov 14 02:04:00 brv Nov 14 02:04:03 brb Nov 14 02:05:46 try sidux! a modern, free debian sid without the instability. Nov 14 02:06:45 Best price I have seen is from buy.com - $228. Nov 14 02:06:53 218 Nov 14 02:06:57 there's a $10 off floating around Nov 14 02:07:05 Got that too :) Nov 14 02:07:14 All I got to do is check out.... Nov 14 02:07:46 crazy cheap Nov 14 02:07:48 Might as well do it :-). Nov 14 02:09:21 No open WIFI around here other than mine (open to me) and doing internet stuff through AT&T (any cell?) is god awful expensive :-(. Nov 14 02:09:45 $20 for unlimited last time I checked Nov 14 02:09:58 As long as you overlook the whole "no tethering" part. Nov 14 02:10:15 Haven't considered it because the cell phone just sucks for that (razor v3xx). Nov 14 02:10:38 No tethering? As in running an access point NATted through it? Nov 14 02:10:49 bluetooth Nov 14 02:11:00 some ppl have reported headaches with pairing stability with razrs Nov 14 02:11:08 How else you going to do that? Other than BT? Nov 14 02:11:15 Motorolas of any kind are garbage Nov 14 02:11:19 BT modem I think it is. Nov 14 02:11:54 All the choices for the "free" phones suck, the razor just sucked least - all I wanted that for at the time was a PHONE :-). Nov 14 02:12:28 At least with the razor I don't have to confirm EVERYTHING I do by BT. Nov 14 02:12:33 yes, phones should just be phones Nov 14 02:12:42 phone/camera/mp3 player/PIM/blah blah blah is stupid Nov 14 02:12:56 Depends on the brand Nov 14 02:13:02 The Treos are stupid Nov 14 02:13:08 Agree, because I have to have a cell (disabled partner) I hate both the provider and the phone... Nov 14 02:13:08 blackberries are pretty terrible Nov 14 02:13:17 But the Nokia smartphones are awesomely badass Nov 14 02:13:26 Noticed that, can't imagine why anyone would want one. Nov 14 02:13:47 No nokias unf, my old Nokia (no longer supported) I loved. Nov 14 02:13:49 I want a phone that's just a phone Nov 14 02:13:54 Me too. Nov 14 02:14:01 one of those third-world jobs with the B&W sunlight-readable displays would RULE Nov 14 02:14:07 but they don't sell them here :-P Nov 14 02:14:33 I *resent* dumping something on me that is crippled "for security" (my arse). Verizon was really offensive about that. Nov 14 02:14:33 My Samsung AGH-A717 was only $50 Nov 14 02:14:38 3g is fun. :D Nov 14 02:14:47 Fun, but EXPENSIVE as hell. Nov 14 02:14:56 $20/mo Nov 14 02:15:02 Not really that expensive Nov 14 02:15:11 Especially for what I'm getting Nov 14 02:15:18 $50 for the phone a month is about what I pay for comcast cable... Nov 14 02:15:30 heh I pay $23/line/month for my cell phones Nov 14 02:15:34 That screen sucks out loud for net work. Nov 14 02:15:38 elb: hate you :). Nov 14 02:15:38 $20/mo would be doubling the pirce ;-) Nov 14 02:15:51 N800 is too cheap. Nov 14 02:15:56 K`zan: you could, too, if you have AT&T wireless ... you'd just have to have 5-6 lines ;-) Nov 14 02:16:03 What, tempted, pupnik? :P Nov 14 02:16:16 * K`zan HATES AT&T / Cingular / AT&T/... Nov 14 02:16:31 they've been ok to me Nov 14 02:16:34 But they were better than the other choices :-/. Nov 14 02:16:37 I had Sprint before, they were a nightmare Nov 14 02:16:37 Overall Nov 14 02:16:56 They all are screw jobs, just how does one want to be screwed (or raped...). Nov 14 02:17:01 yeah Nov 14 02:17:09 "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." Nov 14 02:17:30 Hehe Nov 14 02:17:35 I had Nextel back in the day Nov 14 02:17:41 They had great phones and great service Nov 14 02:17:47 then they went to shit about a year before the merger Nov 14 02:17:57 Now I have AT&T and I really like it. Nov 14 02:18:04 Good coverage, good service, good prices. Nov 14 02:18:14 (comparatively, at least ;)) Nov 14 02:18:19 Service on G3 is a hell! of a lot better than the TDMA I had. Nov 14 02:18:33 Yep, as I said, overall better than the rest. Nov 14 02:18:38 And I get rollover :) Nov 14 02:18:42 i got unlimited 3G data plan 10 euros per month, love it Nov 14 02:19:09 Here in the US t hey rape you for that, cheapest I've seen was about $30 for some piddling amount. Nov 14 02:19:22 NOT.WORTH.IT... Nov 14 02:19:35 mobile phone service sucks in the US, period Nov 14 02:19:36 I'll browse from home, thankyouverymuch. Nov 14 02:19:39 $20/month for unlimited 3g access, K`zan. With AT&T ;) Nov 14 02:19:46 elb: You are WAY too kind. Nov 14 02:20:04 GeneralAntilles: Sure didn't find that under any data plan when I looked. Nov 14 02:20:12 having had phones in the US, Japan, and Russia ... we get the short end of the stick Nov 14 02:20:21 if all you do is a lot of voice calls, the US is the place to be Nov 14 02:20:23 Byting bullet and ordering the N800 now.... Nov 14 02:20:28 but if you want to use SMS or data ... Nov 14 02:20:35 Yep, but net access is a BAD joke here. Nov 14 02:20:37 Get yourself a couple SD cards ASAP Nov 14 02:20:43 8GB SDHC is the best price point Nov 14 02:21:12 (I note with amusement that Amazon says the N810 "works only with Cingular or T-Mobile service" Nov 14 02:21:14 GeneralAntilles: At this point the N800 is going to break me, will prolly pull the 2G card out of the phone and the 1G out of the camera for now. Nov 14 02:21:35 LOL, seen the N800 listed as "unlocked" too :-), been pricing it for a while. Nov 14 02:29:23 Error reporting for repo issues is much improved. You can see which ones are having trouble and edit them from the error dialog. Nov 14 02:30:26 Should have it in 2 business days :). Nov 14 02:30:59 Woo Nov 14 02:31:02 'grats. :) Nov 14 02:32:11 Thanks, I've been agonizing over it for 2 weeks now, time to get off the pot :). Nov 14 02:32:24 After two weeks, I *am* serious :-) Nov 14 02:32:47 Adding #maemo to xchat for freenode :). Nov 14 02:33:46 You'll learn a LOT in here. Nov 14 02:34:12 Much appreciate that! Hopefully!!! I'll be able to help and give some back too. Nov 14 02:34:24 * K`zan does indeed have MUCH to learn... Nov 14 02:35:58 Got it from them with 2 day shipping cheaper than anyplace else, hope I didn't save too much, if you know what I mean... Nov 14 02:36:18 buy.com is reliable Nov 14 02:36:46 Glad to hear that, normally I get everything from newegg... Nov 14 02:37:12 GeneralAntilles: Thanks for staving off the after purchase paranoia LOL! Nov 14 02:37:16 Ha Nov 14 02:37:37 newegg was carrying the N800 a few weeks ago for a couple days at $399.99. Nov 14 02:37:49 I really am looking forward to this thing :-) got to be more fun than the WAPs with linux :). Nov 14 02:38:17 Noticed that, normally they have pretty good prices and I have NEVER had a complaint with service from them. Nov 14 02:38:26 But will it run FGFS ;-)? Nov 14 02:38:32 Get to stocking up on ebooks for FBReader. Nov 14 02:38:38 rtf/txt/html is what I recommend Nov 14 02:38:51 Flight Gear? Nov 14 02:38:56 Yes :-) Nov 14 02:38:59 Hehe Nov 14 02:39:04 'course not. :P Nov 14 02:39:08 Got 2.7G worth of ebooks in the library. Nov 14 02:39:11 X-Plane is better, anyway. Nov 14 02:39:15 Well then just FORGET IT :). Nov 14 02:39:38 Well, if it run xplane, then I'll byte the bullet and live with it ;-). Nov 14 02:40:13 Hehe Nov 14 02:40:22 Accelerated OpenGL would make me very happy. Nov 14 02:40:28 We have the hardware but not the drivers. <_< Nov 14 02:40:34 :-( Nov 14 02:40:52 Would be fun to fly someplace (heh, not) and fly along :-). Nov 14 02:41:04 Ha Nov 14 02:41:16 Until they really do something with security, I ain't flying nowhere :-). Nov 14 02:41:33 My poor wilted credit card :-/. Nov 14 02:41:41 I actually did that once on a Powerbook on a flight from Tampa to Tallahassee. Nov 14 02:41:43 (I won) Nov 14 02:41:44 2 4G SD cards next month. Nov 14 02:41:47 LOL Nov 14 02:41:55 TSA should make everyone strip and do a body cavity search in front of the waiting passengers Nov 14 02:41:59 Obviously you didn't have to deal with ATC :) Nov 14 02:42:07 No, everybody should have to fly naked. Nov 14 02:42:13 yeah Nov 14 02:42:25 Only those that look like people who routinely do the kind of crap that makes security necessary... Nov 14 02:42:45 You would be surpised what people can pull out of their arse :). Nov 14 02:43:04 Grew up around a hospital... Nov 14 02:43:09 Ewwww. :-) Nov 14 02:43:23 <_> Nov 14 02:43:29 btw how many people has the TSA killed so far? Nov 14 02:43:48 Heh, only old folks, WASPs and children... Nov 14 02:46:15 I guess this would be a good time to spend reading through the user manual I downloaded a lot more seriously than I have been :-). Nov 14 02:46:34 Manual's mostly a waste of time. Nov 14 02:46:42 Good teaser I guess, though. Nov 14 02:46:56 Really? Better source? Or just wait and play (like I do with everything else :-)? Nov 14 02:47:31 http://tabletschool.blogspot.com/ Nov 14 02:47:45 and browse the archives of ITT Nov 14 02:48:49 You mean maemo.org == ITT ? Nov 14 02:49:08 New folder and bookmarked tabletschool... Thanks! Nov 14 02:49:23 http://www.internettablettalk.com Nov 14 02:49:53 Thank you Sir! Nov 14 02:50:36 tabletblog.com isn't a bad one to stay on top of the news Nov 14 02:51:06 Will put it on my daily rounds until I get to be an expert guru ;-)! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 14 02:59:57 2007