**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 14 02:59:57 2007 Nov 14 03:02:29 Anybody have a Jaiku invite to toss over here? Nov 14 03:06:43 Hey guys Nov 14 03:06:53 Has anyone ever used a USB keyboard on the N800? Nov 14 03:10:35 GeneralAntilles, i can send you one Nov 14 03:13:54 i have 8 left....anyone want a jaiku invite...just pm me. Nov 14 03:19:53 Heh, will have to look that up to see what it is :). Nov 14 03:21:39 hola Nov 14 03:23:02 A response to my question would be nice, if anyone has one. Nov 14 03:23:15 Syntra: yes Nov 14 03:23:28 Wicked! Nov 14 03:23:35 It worked and everything? Nov 14 03:23:44 for some value of "everything" Nov 14 03:23:58 I've used an apple bt keyboard and a thinkoutside folding keyboard Nov 14 03:24:23 Sweet Nov 14 03:24:24 on the thinkoutside keyboard, several of the keys are supposed to be accessible by hitting the blue Fn key Nov 14 03:24:58 however, it gets intercepted somehow by the n800 and so hitting Fn causes a menu to pop up instead of allowing use of, say, PgUp or Esc Nov 14 03:25:08 Hmm Nov 14 03:25:12 but largely, yeah, it works. Nov 14 03:25:12 Thats odd Nov 14 03:25:18 The apple one works fine though, right? Nov 14 03:25:21 yeah Nov 14 03:25:30 Thats the one I'm looking at Nov 14 03:25:32 though it's a bit bulky for my purposes. Nov 14 03:25:41 its fairly cheap and ubiquitous Nov 14 03:25:42 Ahh I don't care too much about size. Nov 14 03:25:59 well, not ubiquitous, but not that hard to find. Nov 14 03:26:03 Yeah Nov 14 03:26:09 I've found it Nov 14 03:26:21 55$ is the cheapest I've found it for. Nov 14 03:26:27 I was disappointed that Logitech is selling so many "wireless keyboards" with proprietary usb dongles. Nov 14 03:27:17 55$ sounds about right. Nov 14 03:27:35 Yeah Nov 14 03:28:12 I know, deejoe, what's with the trend away from Bluetooth for input devices these days? Nov 14 03:31:19 logitech must figure they can get away with it. Nov 14 03:31:31 maybe they save on licensing, too. Nov 14 03:32:03 bluetooth is pretty darn crappy Nov 14 03:32:20 obviously designed by telephone people Nov 14 03:32:35 I've been trying to find a logitech 470 BT mouse for months, all the stores have 450s only Nov 14 03:33:19 Internet? Nov 14 03:33:19 <_Monkey> Internet is in a loop? :-) Nov 14 03:35:03 hello all Nov 14 03:35:25 How is it going in here tonight? Nov 14 03:35:43 Just enjoying OS2008. Nov 14 03:35:52 yeah, yeah, yeah Nov 14 03:36:00 I am hoping to get mine soon ;-) Nov 14 03:36:12 I am still on the 770 Nov 14 03:37:06 I am looking at getting an N810 when it is available in the US Nov 14 03:37:19 Way too expensive. Nov 14 03:38:30 it is currently, yes Nov 14 03:38:48 but it should come down in price over the next several months Nov 14 03:39:11 I am looking at replacing my Wifes 770 with an 800 Nov 14 03:39:43 the nice thing about the n810 coming out is what it did to the n800 price Nov 14 03:39:49 ;-) Nov 14 03:40:14 N800 is too cheap. Nov 14 03:40:15 I am actually one of the ones on the device program Nov 14 03:40:39 but cheap = more sales and more devs hopefully Nov 14 03:40:52 my wife is going to get the n800 because of the two SD card slots Nov 14 03:41:04 yeah better for media playback Nov 14 03:41:06 How do you figure, pupnik? Nov 14 03:41:35 how can i explain cheaper = more sales Nov 14 03:42:05 No, how it's "too cheap" Nov 14 03:42:20 oh i am just complaining cause i spent like 400 bucks for the 770 Nov 14 03:42:24 Ha Nov 14 03:42:45 I spent $380 for the 770 _and_ $400 for the N800. :P Nov 14 03:42:58 pupnik: I spent 450 for the 770 Nov 14 03:43:11 I bought the $90 replacement plan along with the 770 Nov 14 03:43:31 I have put it threw its paces though ;-) Nov 14 03:43:43 yeah, the only alternative for me would have been a zaurus for more money Nov 14 03:44:02 I have read several Tarzan books on it, as well as the scheduling, etc Nov 14 03:44:03 ;-) Nov 14 03:44:16 finally have GPE Calander that makes a sound during alarm Nov 14 03:44:18 so that is cool Nov 14 03:44:43 well with a 770 and an n800 ... and now the n810 on the horizon... I wonder if you can cluster them ;) Nov 14 03:44:51 have you looked at all the PIM style apps? i think the leaders are GPE and 'pimco' or something like that Nov 14 03:44:57 nightwriter: that'd be COOL Nov 14 03:45:19 i have the latest GPE Nov 14 03:45:23 "imagine a beowulf cluster of..." Nov 14 03:45:43 happy with it monarch ? Nov 14 03:45:47 not the one from garage, but the ones from somewhere in the internet ether Nov 14 03:45:57 After today where we raid 5'd 6 1G key drives... anything is possible I guess Nov 14 03:46:02 pupnik: it scared the shit out of me the first time the damn alarm went off Nov 14 03:46:08 I was so used to it being quit Nov 14 03:46:12 quiet Nov 14 03:46:16 during alarms Nov 14 03:46:21 totally unexpected ;-) Nov 14 03:50:15 Anyone here installed Maemo SDK (in particular maemo-explicit package) 3.0 and willing to help me with ideas on a problem I'm having installing ? Nov 14 03:50:39 err 3.1...my goal is to setup 3.2 but it says install 3.1 first Nov 14 03:51:34 the directions say to install maemo-explicit for both targets (X86 and ARMEL) Nov 14 03:53:08 hi all, is support of glade removed from chinook? Nov 14 03:53:36 X86 went fine but ARMEL failed with a post install error during the install of hildon-input-method - apparently it tries to run an app as part of the post-install configuration process. That executable will not run (of course) because I am inside scratchbox and on an X86 machine - the app it wants to run in that scratchbox is of course an ARMEL binary so won't run. Nov 14 03:53:47 pupnik: I am using the GPE files from http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ Nov 14 03:54:07 on the 770 the repository entry is: Nov 14 03:54:17 http://www.cobb.uk.net/apt/ Nov 14 03:54:25 Dist: gregale Comp: user Nov 14 03:54:53 Do I need to anyone have any ideas? Do I need to setup my tablet as a transparent target and plug it in - or something like that??? Nov 14 03:55:28 Err i meant to start that as "Anyone have any ideas"...followed by my question "Do I need..." Nov 14 03:57:35 ty monarch Nov 14 03:57:56 np Nov 14 03:58:35 Appreciate you folks that can afford to ride the bleeding edge, makes things like the n800 possible for us poor folks :). Nov 14 03:58:54 tuxthepenguin: you install the armel root filesystem from a tgz file right? Nov 14 04:00:00 pupnik: I didn't, it must have been the SDK install script which did it? Nov 14 04:01:10 i created the target with sb-menu Nov 14 04:01:24 then i pointed it to a downloaded root filesystem in the form of a tgz file Nov 14 04:01:37 what scratchbox are you using? Nov 14 04:02:39 apophis R4 Nov 14 04:04:05 i just followed the directions in the maemo install docs which started by saying how to install scratchbox using a script Nov 14 04:04:46 then indicated i needed to install maemo SDK 3.0, so i used that automated install script next (I used the automated scratchbox setup too) Nov 14 04:05:32 wait let me restart that summary Nov 14 04:05:46 1) followed directions and installed scratchbox Nov 14 04:06:00 2) used automated install for maemo SDK 3.0 Nov 14 04:06:19 3) used automated install to put nokia binaries in place Nov 14 04:06:36 4) installed maemo-explicit to x86 target Nov 14 04:07:00 5) attempted to install maemo-explicit to ARMEL target Nov 14 04:07:09 that's it in a nutshell... Nov 14 04:07:48 should I have grabbed a root file system at some point? was it part of one of the automated installs? Nov 14 04:07:54 i don't have experience with that Nov 14 04:08:09 no idea what 'maemo-explicit' is Nov 14 04:08:25 you installed using a different process than the documentation describes? Nov 14 04:08:34 What did you do and where did you find the info? Nov 14 04:08:35 i have an older scratchbox Nov 14 04:08:44 ahh! Nov 14 04:08:51 i think they changed the process a bit Nov 14 04:08:54 ok which one: 2.0? 3.0? Nov 14 04:10:05 Version: 1.0.7 Nov 14 04:10:06 (oops just noticed I said maemo 3.0 again - I am actually installing 3.1 so I can upgrade immediately to 3.2 - this is a clean install inside a nice user mode linux box) Nov 14 04:10:11 Wow! Nov 14 04:10:25 that's pretty old i suspect Nov 14 04:10:45 scratchbox version != maemo version Nov 14 04:11:35 ahh yes... my mistake Nov 14 04:11:37 ok Nov 14 04:11:39 interesting uml Nov 14 04:11:55 i use this soemtimes - might have some problems with scratchbox actually Nov 14 04:12:01 which maemo SDK do you have? Nov 14 04:12:19 did you install the nokia binaries too? Nov 14 04:12:22 gregale, which is 2.2 i think Nov 14 04:12:59 I didn't mention it - but I also installed Xephyr - seems to work fine.. Nov 14 04:13:01 if you are following instructions exactly and getting strange errors, i fear it could be related to the UML Nov 14 04:13:35 I kind of doubt it -the messages seem quite clear Nov 14 04:14:56 " did you install the nokia binaries too?" i can not map this to my semantic grid Nov 14 04:15:14 have fun Nov 14 04:15:29 the debian package is running a script (some sort of post-install process to configure things) - it tries to run an application which is present but is an ARMEL binary. when that fails, the post-install fails - this prevents other packages scheduled for installation to fail to install Nov 14 04:17:35 pupnik: the directions indicate there are proprietary binaries from nokia that are provided so that you can run some of the commonly shipped apps on your tablet, in this dev environment - things like the control panel, the general window manager etc. Nov 14 04:18:03 they point at an automated install script which will install theses in the scratchbox targets Nov 14 04:18:56 please see these urls for the directions I'm following to get this all setup Nov 14 04:19:02 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo-3-x--bora-.html Nov 14 04:19:04 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/maemo-sdk-relnotes_3.2.txt Nov 14 04:19:06 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.2/INSTALL.txt Nov 14 04:19:08 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/3.1/INSTALL.txt Nov 14 04:19:10 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.1/maemo-scratchbox-install_3.1.sh Nov 14 04:19:12 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/3.2 Nov 14 04:19:53 ahhhhhh Nov 14 04:19:54 I succeeded with a previous install (SDK 2.0? 3.0) under uml Nov 14 04:20:00 i never installed that stuff Nov 14 04:20:12 thanks for the explornation Nov 14 04:20:32 pupnik: are you doing maemo development for the tablet? *I'm puzzled* Nov 14 04:20:43 sure, i build the stuff, copy it to the tablet, then test Nov 14 04:21:20 which tablet? Nov 14 04:21:46 er... doing development - not so much. just some demo and performance test apps - mostly just porting and tweaking proggs Nov 14 04:21:52 http://pupnik.de/software.html Nov 14 04:21:53 <_Monkey> hmmm... http://pupnik.de/software.html is the WIP page Nov 14 04:21:54 770 Nov 14 04:22:00 ahh ok i see - you don't test on your pc, you just copy it over to see if it works - must be pretty tedious when you need to debug Nov 14 04:22:28 got gdb on the tablet Nov 14 04:22:45 'ain't nuthin like the real thing baybe' Nov 14 04:23:39 :-) Nov 14 04:24:20 Looks like you have been pretty busy porting things including the Palm Emulator - I should check that out - actually first I want to checkout the garnet port Nov 14 04:24:35 garnet is supposedly better Nov 14 04:25:03 garnetvm? Nov 14 04:25:03 <_Monkey> i think garnetvm is available from Access, direct deb downloads 770: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n770.deb, N800 http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n800.deb and N810: http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/garnet-vm_1.0b_n810.deb Nov 14 04:25:10 pupnik: thank's for your assistance. I'm not sure there is much you can do since you don't know the maemo stuff I'm trying to setup Nov 14 04:25:22 monkey: yes Nov 14 04:25:56 you're welcome, and sorry if i wasted your time - didn't quite get what you were doing at first Nov 14 04:26:10 pupnik: no problem. Nov 14 04:27:00 any other developers here? - some which use maemo please? Nov 14 04:36:08 is "Double press" a new option in mce.ini? Nov 14 04:38:29 At what point does the SDHC thing become an issue for SD cards? 4G ? Nov 14 04:38:50 There are both kinds for 4GB Nov 14 04:38:58 But the N800 will handle any SD card just fine. Nov 14 04:39:58 Anyone happen to know where the list of contacts is stored on the N800? Nov 14 04:40:12 I want to blow my contacts away and start fresh. Nov 14 04:40:16 OK, Thanks, somewhere I got the impression that above some value you needed SDHC for the cards to work. Nov 14 04:40:38 Well, yeah Nov 14 04:40:43 but the N800 supports SDHC just fine Nov 14 04:40:48 so it's not an issue. Nov 14 04:41:59 Err, sorry to be dense, but if it doesn't matter what is the point of SDHC?!? Nov 14 04:42:21 It matters for addressing the card blocks Nov 14 04:42:26 Perhaps older stuff that did't know about the limit (forget what it was now). Nov 14 04:42:33 It doesn't matter for you buying cards to put into your N800. Nov 14 04:42:39 Like my camera or the palm. Nov 14 04:43:04 Ok, looks like about $41/4G from newegg. Nov 14 04:43:11 SD addresses by byte and SDHC by sector Nov 14 04:43:30 It's a difference on the card and in the software Nov 14 04:43:32 If I have a choice would I be wiser to get the SDHC? Nov 14 04:43:39 so it matters on older devices which don't have support for sector addressing Nov 14 04:43:51 but the N800 has support for both byte and sector addressing, so it doesn't matter. Nov 14 04:44:11 Well, yes, because 8GB isn't that much more expensive and it's twice the capacity. Nov 14 04:44:27 So the SDHC is for older devices and it fakes out older software - so to speak - so it can use more than it "should"? Nov 14 04:44:42 Uh, no. Nov 14 04:44:47 Arghhh Nov 14 04:44:50 SDHC is the new standard Nov 14 04:45:00 It supports capacities over 4GB Nov 14 04:45:03 SD does not Nov 14 04:45:07 OK, so forget SDHC for older devices. Nov 14 04:45:16 SD does not because it addresses by byte, so it runs out of address space Nov 14 04:45:30 SDHC addresses by sector (bigger) so it doesn't run out of address space nearly as fast. Nov 14 04:45:47 Some limit on that. IIRC my camera will only use 1G SD cards. Nov 14 04:45:51 But SDHC wont work in older devices without a firmware update to those devices. Nov 14 04:46:03 * K`zan bangs head on wall :-) Nov 14 04:46:09 Well, there may be other variables involved on the camera side Nov 14 04:46:26 But SD as a STANDARD only supports 4GB (well, 2GB, but they managed to hack up 4GB cards) Nov 14 04:46:32 In the case of the N800, "don't worry about it" :-) Nov 14 04:46:37 Right. Nov 14 04:46:45 :-) done! Nov 14 04:46:47 LOL Nov 14 04:47:11 Sorry, I have a tendency to bring technical issues into play when people don't really want/need to know about them. ;) Nov 14 04:48:06 No problem, appreciate the education :-). Nov 14 04:48:34 I think I'll just go with the 2G and 1G cards I have until I have some clue about what I actually need on the n800. Nov 14 04:49:15 I got the 2G for the camera (Cannon S2IS) and I have yet to get even vaguely close to using up (at highest res) the 2500+ pix that can store :). Nov 14 04:49:23 Ha Nov 14 04:49:33 Drop a couple of movies on there and it'll be done fast Nov 14 04:49:46 In real every day use I could use the internal memory :). Nov 14 04:49:53 hell, cache a state or two in maemo mapper and it'll be done Nov 14 04:49:54 Point made :-). Nov 14 04:50:21 I am not really planning to use it for video, from what I gather it is rather choppy. Nov 14 04:50:30 Or was that just with utube stuff?!? Nov 14 04:50:32 Hummm. Nov 14 04:51:06 It's great for video Nov 14 04:51:13 You just have to transcode ahead of time Nov 14 04:51:20 and/or get yourself a copy of Nov 14 04:51:22 mediaserv? Nov 14 04:51:26 Useless damn bot Nov 14 04:51:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10948 Nov 14 04:52:23 Ah, COOL, that is a 4G card in the camera! Snarf and in goes the 64M one :) Nov 14 04:52:24 MPEG4 video at no more than 400x240 24-30fps at 1200-1500Kbps with MP3 audio in the 128Kbps range Nov 14 04:53:58 150x 4g that should work :). Nov 14 04:54:08 and an 80x 1G Nov 14 04:54:20 * K`zan roots through the SD cards :) Nov 14 04:54:32 I'm hoping to be able to downcode videos from my myth Nov 14 04:55:02 * K`zan prowling for SD cards... Nov 14 04:55:06 People have mentioned it before, elb, so, yeah, you should be able to. Nov 14 04:55:30 K`zan, stick the 4GB in the internal slot and stick swap on there and cache your maps there. Nov 14 04:55:57 I'm sure I can Nov 14 04:56:11 the only question is whether I decide it's worht the time & effort Nov 14 04:56:21 (depends on the quality of video I can get on and at what sizes) Nov 14 04:56:33 It looks great. Nov 14 04:56:50 I'll be space-constrained, I'm sure Nov 14 04:57:10 Do it on-the-fly Nov 14 04:58:03 ... that's not very useful Nov 14 04:58:22 if I'm close enough to home for that, I'll watch on the TV ;-) Nov 14 04:58:39 Then what's with space constraints? Nov 14 04:58:42 I'm thinking more along the lines of at 20k feet over the Atlantic Nov 14 04:58:52 Of COURSE you're going to be a little constrained on the device Nov 14 04:59:08 just buy yourself a pair of 8GB cards and you'll be set for a flight Nov 14 04:59:11 right, my point is, my quality will be determined by space, not what the device is capable of Nov 14 04:59:15 (and an extra battery if they don't have a jack) Nov 14 04:59:43 Hehe, my opinion is to go with the best quality and whatever fits . . . fits. ;) Nov 14 04:59:45 'cause I can't afford two 8GB cards, either ;-) Nov 14 05:00:13 near-TV-quality can be had in about 2GB/hour at 480x480 or so Nov 14 05:00:15 Then toss a book or two into the mix to fill the rest of the time. Nov 14 05:00:26 400x240 will be significantly smaller Nov 14 05:00:47 90MB per 12 minutes for me Nov 14 05:00:48 heh last time I flew to Russia, I read two Aubrey/Maturin novels on the way there :-P Nov 14 05:00:53 2GB/hour seems incredibly high Nov 14 05:00:59 right, that's near-tv-quality Nov 14 05:01:05 1080i runs about 6GB/hour for me Nov 14 05:01:06 MPEG-2, I should say Nov 14 05:01:12 Ah, right. Nov 14 05:01:16 MPEG-4 will be tighter Nov 14 05:01:28 i cron transcode the newest 2 gigs of video and rsync Nov 14 05:02:01 My MPEG4 stuff from my EyeTV is about 1.3GB/hour at current settings Nov 14 05:02:07 740xsummuch Nov 14 05:02:24 so there is always a few hours of stuff Nov 14 05:02:41 i want a 60" flexible screen that i can set up flat, or wrap in a semi-circle around my head for 180 degree view while gaming Nov 14 05:02:42 Hehe Nov 14 05:02:59 I just use the phat pipe coming out of my parent's house for on-the-go on-demand media. ;) Nov 14 05:04:27 Anybody else with OS2008 play with mce.ini yet? Nov 14 05:04:32 Seems to be some new settings Nov 14 05:05:39 Wow, Cheap: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211180 Nov 14 05:07:18 Out of stock, though. ;) Nov 14 05:07:34 Small wonder :) Nov 14 05:07:52 get the Transcend from buy.com Nov 14 05:08:12 Makes a difference here? Will check that out. Nov 14 05:09:03 :-) even better prices :-), thanks! Nov 14 05:09:04 K`zan, this transcend is good http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208293 Nov 14 05:09:38 Eureka! I got it. my problem was due to binfmt_misc support being missing in the uml kernel I got from nagafix as a canned quick start. Nov 14 05:09:48 plus there are a few coupons out there Nov 14 05:09:51 is Transcend better than Kensignton for SD cards? Nov 14 05:10:12 just make sure it's class 6.. Nov 14 05:10:29 fysa: will class 4 be noticably slower? Nov 14 05:10:32 Thanks, was just wondering about that :), 150x class6 none noted... Nov 14 05:10:38 another canned kernel from there had it built-in (it was also newer - kernel 2.6.23 instead of 2.6.19rc5 Nov 14 05:10:48 i'm wondering if it's worth the extra $10 Nov 14 05:11:12 every bit helps with the n800 :) Nov 14 05:11:21 ah :\ Nov 14 05:11:25 is 150x better than class 6? Nov 14 05:11:30 the n800 is a little pokey? Nov 14 05:11:41 i tried it out in store, but i'm not sure if the firmware was updated Nov 14 05:12:17 K`zan: you can check out this page for tests: http://www.valuemedia.co.uk/sd_chart.htm Nov 14 05:12:22 ... it's a handheld. without a hdd and with 128mb. faster card = faster swap Nov 14 05:12:44 Is the flash a disk in the N800 or RAM - yes, my ignorance at this point is legion, sigh... Nov 14 05:12:51 hrm yeah Nov 14 05:13:09 these speed tests cover SDHC cards http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388.html Nov 14 05:13:11 Or both... Nov 14 05:13:12 <_Monkey> both are important Nov 14 05:13:14 LOl Nov 14 05:13:50 and if you compare kingston class 2 versus class 6, there's hardly a difference, so take the classes with a grain of salt http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2408-87.html Nov 14 05:14:00 There flash in the device for storage and there's RAM inside the device, too. Nov 14 05:14:02 the n810 spec sheet says it has 128mb ddr ram and 256MB flash... Nov 14 05:14:17 class2 is AT LEAST 2MB/sec Nov 14 05:14:22 class6 is AT LEAST 6MB/sec Nov 14 05:14:25 indeed Nov 14 05:14:29 i wonder how much of a speed edge the n810 will have... Nov 14 05:14:38 None. Nov 14 05:15:44 http://europe.nokia.com/A4305063 Nov 14 05:15:52 oh right, nvm Nov 14 05:16:00 a good argument for buying the n800 Nov 14 05:18:10 so does anyone know another website that has benchmarks for sd cards? Nov 14 05:21:01 i guess if one were a true gearhead, one could buy a sandisk extreme 3 card Nov 14 05:25:12 l7, I can't see that it's worth it for these devices Nov 14 05:25:42 astro76: yeah, i tend to agree Nov 14 05:26:09 i suppose one could benchmark the differences between transcend and sandisk extreme Nov 14 05:26:17 if you were as obsessive as me :) Nov 14 05:26:40 sd extreme is twice the price. Nov 14 05:26:49 so it's out Nov 14 05:27:31 transcend 8gb seems to have somewhat better reviews on newegg than the a-data Nov 14 05:27:55 l7, I believe that 8gb transcend is by far the best deal right now Nov 14 05:28:20 I have 1 and will get another soon ;) Nov 14 05:28:24 For all the doubters: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/new_os2007_he_for_the_nokia_770_with_mozilla_engine_and_memory_corruption_bugfix.html Nov 14 05:29:54 http://www.adorama.com/KGSD68GB.html Nov 14 05:30:08 We should have a thread on ITT forums with a dd speed test read/write, device (770,800,810), kernel version and card type Nov 14 05:30:21 Kingston Technology 8 GB Class 6 comes out to $55 after rebate Nov 14 05:30:32 eh Nov 14 05:30:39 MIR's a pain Nov 14 05:30:45 yeah it is Nov 14 05:31:00 l7, IMO you always have to compare prices assuming you will not get the rebate Nov 14 05:31:07 i'm curious about the kingston's speed vs the transcend Nov 14 05:31:32 astro76: i'm strongly in favor of the transcend right now Nov 14 05:31:34 l7, here's that comparison Nov 14 05:31:37 http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2439-161.html Nov 14 05:31:57 l7, as you see it is close, and the transcend is actually better at writing small files Nov 14 05:32:40 astro76: ah, excellent link Nov 14 05:33:04 i just was noticing how slow my usb thumbdrive was at writing small files yesterday Nov 14 05:34:14 kingston also has a crazy 266x card for $120 Nov 14 05:34:18 AR Nov 14 05:34:33 This map download is taking FOREVER Nov 14 05:34:35 transcend seems like the best bet so far though Nov 14 05:37:05 sdhc mini-sd slow to appear in germany Nov 14 05:37:25 GeneralAntilles: did you notice the file size? Nov 14 05:37:25 bye Nov 14 05:37:37 ~733MB Nov 14 05:37:57 First one died at 50% after 3 hours Nov 14 05:38:14 yea Nov 14 05:38:24 it's died twice for me Nov 14 05:38:30 I guess I'm giving up Nov 14 05:38:35 * db48x has no gps anyway Nov 14 05:38:48 maemo mapper is better, anyway. Nov 14 05:39:16 interesting sd card forum here: http://iaudiophile.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-16901.html Nov 14 05:39:27 Ha Nov 14 05:39:39 Way too much work for some stupid memory card. ;) Nov 14 05:40:04 GeneralAntilles: yeah, it's academic Nov 14 05:40:18 * l7 is obsessively detail oriented when it comes to buying gear Nov 14 05:40:34 l7: isn't alone :-) Nov 14 05:40:34 I can understand that Nov 14 05:40:40 but . . . for memory cards? :\ Nov 14 05:40:55 http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/ for unrelated flash benchmark porn Nov 14 05:41:11 relevant to my interests Nov 14 05:41:26 GeneralAntilles: yeah, i guess it's not really _that_ big of a purchase Nov 14 05:41:34 compared to say, buying a digital camera Nov 14 05:41:39 or gps Nov 14 05:41:57 you pays your money and takes your chances i guess Nov 14 05:42:01 Hehe, GPS is an easy one to answer: MTK ;) Nov 14 05:42:04 Still, ya gotta live with what you get, so you might as well do it as well as you can... Nov 14 05:42:28 the kingston 4GB minisdhc is one of the few available in germany for N810 - 20.5MB/s read and 5.7MB/s write sounds grrreat Nov 14 05:42:34 * K`zan is NOT neurotic :) Nov 14 05:42:38 K`zan: yup, i know the feeling Nov 14 05:42:47 there's so many choices in the market Nov 14 05:42:58 it's good and bad Nov 14 05:42:59 Yep, way too damn many Nov 14 05:43:16 pupnik_, how about micro sdhc? seems like that is more popular, 8gb has just been announced Nov 14 05:43:30 True, but why do we need 5000 of the same thing with different names /skus? Nov 14 05:43:56 GeneralAntilles: does MTK GPS chipset = iblue? Nov 14 05:43:59 One company makes them then 100 sell them with different packaging and prices :) Nov 14 05:44:05 l7, many use MTK Nov 14 05:44:11 astro76: maybe yes - if micro has higher volume they could be cheaper Nov 14 05:44:19 i wonder if it will outperform the n810's gps Nov 14 05:44:22 Basically, l7. Nov 14 05:44:24 Holux, too Nov 14 05:44:27 wow Nov 14 05:44:40 er, which is better, Holux or MTK? Nov 14 05:44:57 is there a kind of newbie FAQ for what accessories are best for the n800 somewhere? Nov 14 05:45:00 Holux like i-blue Nov 14 05:45:04 It's a GPS brand Nov 14 05:45:07 not the chipset Nov 14 05:45:10 l7, holux is a brand, some use sirf iii and some use mtk Nov 14 05:45:12 or do you just kind of get it through osmosis here ? :) Nov 14 05:45:13 http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/speed-by-cards-sdc.html#cdet-ki44 varry nice chart Nov 14 05:46:05 l7, I have decided on either the m1200 or m1000b http://www.holux.com/JCore/en/products/products_list.jsp?pno=2 Nov 14 05:46:57 I'd just get the i-blue 737 Nov 14 05:47:03 or 757 if you have a use for solar Nov 14 05:47:06 hmm, the cool thing about getting a n800 + gps is that you can use the gps with your bluetooth phone too, in theory Nov 14 05:47:14 yeah that solar one is cool Nov 14 05:47:56 pupnik_, wow that sandisc 6gb microsdhc is a really good card Nov 14 05:48:26 is it easy to say which is better: the holux or one of the iblues? Nov 14 05:48:36 yeah looking for it right now Nov 14 05:49:03 There's not a huge difference, l7. Nov 14 05:49:10 I _really_ like my i-blue, though. Nov 14 05:49:28 l7, yeah those are both very popular and both use same chipset Nov 14 05:49:32 GeneralAntilles: what do you like and or dislike about it? Nov 14 05:49:50 as usual germany is lagged behind the rest of the planet - no sdhc cards in the major shops Nov 14 05:49:57 astro76: i guess that means they'll have the best software support in the maemo community then Nov 14 05:50:06 hc micro that is Nov 14 05:50:17 The only thing I might possibly complain about is that the LEDs are a little bright when it's sitting on the dash cruising down the pitch-black interstate at night. Nov 14 05:50:57 Otherwise, it's small, durable, fast, accurate, reliable and with incredibly long battery life. Nov 14 05:51:07 you could put some electrical tape over the LEDs Nov 14 05:51:10 l7, any bluetooth gps should enjoy the same support, that said I tend to stick to reputable brands ;) Nov 14 05:51:22 Ha Nov 14 05:51:26 "might possibly" Nov 14 05:51:35 that's if I were digging as deep as I could for a complaint. Nov 14 05:52:34 i guess the most important thing is that it has a good GPS connection Nov 14 05:53:05 i'm basically a newbie to GPS, but i thought i should plan to get all my n800 gear around the same time to make sure i like the setup Nov 14 05:54:03 Well, I have reached terminal confusion with *SD* cards, break time... Nov 14 05:54:08 hrm, GPS + bluetooth camera looks fun too Nov 14 05:54:33 K`zan: perhaps you should just get the Transcend :) Nov 14 05:55:06 Yeah, I was going to try and rig something up with a waterproof box, a bluetooth gps and digital camera for my canoe trips Nov 14 05:55:25 Take photos in the water tied to GPS locations Nov 14 05:55:41 Yes, K`zan, get the 4GB or the 8GB class6 Transcend. Nov 14 05:56:35 GeneralAntilles: so the iblue 757 is more or less perfect? :) Nov 14 05:56:50 GeneralAntilles: or the 150x one :). Nov 14 05:56:55 Get the SDHC Nov 14 05:57:09 K`zan: what is the 150x one? Nov 14 05:57:18 it's not SDHC? Nov 14 05:57:21 Basically, though durability is slightly reduced with the 757 versus the 737 Nov 14 05:57:23 I'm going to limp along with the 5G worth of cards I have until next month and then either 4 or 8G. Nov 14 05:57:27 150x is plain SD Nov 14 05:58:00 l7: Damnifiknow, the 4G one I had in the camera is 150x but how that compares to a "Class 6" I ain't got clue frickin one... Nov 14 05:58:11 there is actually an 150x SDHC 4GB http://www.digitalversus.com/article-388-2437-161.html Nov 14 05:58:20 most stores have the non SDHC one Nov 14 05:58:29 and neither are worth it for the n800 Nov 14 05:58:46 if you're feeling crazy, you can get the sandisk iii 8gb class 6 for $100 AR i think Nov 14 05:58:48 By the time cash replentishes itself I might have a clue as to what I *actually* need :). Nov 14 05:58:49 http://www.adorama.com/IDSCF8GE3.html#SanDisk-8-GB-Extreme-III-Compact-Flash-Memory-Card. Nov 14 05:59:05 Erm, l7 Nov 14 05:59:06 unless you have a high end digital camera, it's overkill Nov 14 05:59:09 That's not SD. :\ Nov 14 05:59:16 Cannon S2IS Nov 14 05:59:17 heh Nov 14 06:00:35 astro76: hrm the 150x has an improved write speed... Nov 14 06:00:57 might speed up the n800 slightly... in theory Nov 14 06:01:17 might also be an unmeasurable different Nov 14 06:01:19 difference Nov 14 06:01:51 GeneralAntilles: oops :\ Nov 14 06:02:20 * l7 compares weight between iblue 757 and 737 Nov 14 06:02:37 757 would be better for hiking... if there's sun Nov 14 06:02:45 otherwise the solar might be extra weight Nov 14 06:02:47 Do I feel like flashing my 770s tonight? Nov 14 06:03:07 is flashing particularly time consuming? Nov 14 06:03:17 people seem to regard it with a certain dread Nov 14 06:03:19 No, just a few buttons ;-) Nov 14 06:03:41 Flashing, no. Nov 14 06:03:55 But reinstalling all those damn apps and reconfiguring everything, yes. Nov 14 06:03:58 * l7 wonders if it's possible for the iblue to link to the n800 and a phone simultaenously... Nov 14 06:04:07 ah reconfiguring Nov 14 06:04:18 What's the point of linking to a phone? Nov 14 06:04:31 i don't suppose it would be easy to simply back up your configurations as well Nov 14 06:04:53 if you ever wanted to reflash the entire thing with configuration intact Nov 14 06:05:01 GeneralAntilles: er i meant camera, not phone Nov 14 06:05:17 these microsd do not seem to come with adapter to minisd - usually just SD-adapter Nov 14 06:06:02 and perhaps mount the camera on a tripod and get the phone to transmit photos for review to the n800 after each shot... Nov 14 06:10:33 http://sewelldirect.com/Solar-Energy-Bluetooth-GPS-Data-Logger.asp Nov 14 06:10:44 http://sewelldirect.com/iBlue-737-High-Sensitivity-Bluetooth-GPS-Receiver.asp Nov 14 06:11:10 both the 757 and 737 are 46.5 x 72.2 x 20 mm Nov 14 06:11:51 the 757 is 40 grams heavier... Nov 14 06:13:33 http://www.mtekk.com.au/Articles/tabid/54/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/791/iBlue-757-Pro-32-GPS-and-Data-Logger.aspx Nov 14 06:13:47 In every way the unit has significantly better performance than the PS-737, and that’s saying something because the PS-737 was and still is an excellent unit. Nov 14 06:14:23 What voltage does the charger for the N800 put out? Nov 14 06:15:09 Thinking of making up a pack to recharge or run off of like I have for the Zire (4 AA NIMHs). Nov 14 06:15:26 3.7, I think Nov 14 06:15:35 * GeneralAntilles is too lazy to check under the desk Nov 14 06:15:46 K`zan: look on the charger body, it'll say Nov 14 06:15:54 Thanks, that should be easy :). Nov 14 06:16:09 db48x: I'll have that in two business days :). Nov 14 06:16:15 heh Nov 14 06:16:25 FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) Nov 14 06:16:27 IG!!!!!!!!! Nov 14 06:16:33 http://www.buygpsnow.com/i-blue-edition-2-i-blue-737-iblue-i-blue-ps-737-32-channel-bluetooth-gps-gps-receiver-waas-auto-on-off-679.aspx Nov 14 06:16:41 737 is $50... wow Nov 14 06:17:15 DC 5.0v 890mA Nov 14 06:17:50 Good price on that, perhaps sell my GPSMAP76CS and get that. Nov 14 06:18:49 astro76: which holux do you have btw? Nov 14 06:19:03 There's one down. Nov 14 06:19:25 890 mA, wow. Sluuuuuuuuuuuurp. Nov 14 06:25:09 hrm, the iblue's auto-off feature seems to put a point in it's favor Nov 14 06:25:33 I just leave it on and plugged in in the center console of my Camry. Nov 14 06:25:37 There's a jack in there Nov 14 06:25:44 Take it out and set it on the dash when I use it. Nov 14 06:26:23 hrm, i'll probably be travelling with it in my backpack more than in a car Nov 14 06:26:30 so i guess i can skip the solar Nov 14 06:27:48 http://tabletblog.com/2007/09/thoughtfix-is-biggest-nerd-ever.html Nov 14 06:28:30 Hehe Nov 14 06:29:06 i guess i *could* carry the solar gps around in my hand or strapped to my backpack when hiking Nov 14 06:29:12 but that seems a bit much Nov 14 06:29:21 Hat mount! Nov 14 06:29:45 haha Nov 14 06:29:49 Just a big beany on top of the hat :-) Nov 14 06:30:17 K`zan: lol Nov 14 06:30:25 Get one of those hats with the fans and drink holders and no one will ever notice :). Nov 14 06:30:41 actually, I'd been thinking that a hat mounted 360° would be pretty cool Nov 14 06:30:56 actually, I'd been thinking that a hat mounted 360° camera would be pretty cool Nov 14 06:31:01 l7, neither though my friend just picked up a m1200... either that one or the m1000b Nov 14 06:31:05 K`zan: you could get this holster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz8EtJzeDQ0 Nov 14 06:31:06 Small rotor would be nice too :) LOL Nov 14 06:31:10 :) Nov 14 06:31:21 haha, a rotor Nov 14 06:31:27 solar powered no doubt Nov 14 06:31:33 yea, that'd be cool Nov 14 06:31:38 solar powered beanie Nov 14 06:31:52 astro76: any raves or gripes baout the m1200 / m1000b? Nov 14 06:32:02 i saw a forum post about the lack of an auto-power off Nov 14 06:32:07 other than than 9/10 Nov 14 06:32:34 no he loves the m1200 Nov 14 06:32:48 doesn't mind the switch Nov 14 06:33:04 this is probably the question of the day, but will ask again: is IT OS 2008 available to download for the n800? Nov 14 06:33:48 instructions to get os2008 working on n800 http://pastebin.com/m16dd5937 Nov 14 06:34:59 thanks!! Anything I should watchout for? Nov 14 06:35:03 okay i'm in information overload mode too Nov 14 06:35:23 i should go digest this and look at digicam magazines Nov 14 06:36:10 i don't know - just copied the link Nov 14 06:36:39 ok, I'll be back once I get this done. Nov 14 06:37:19 Nope, not particularly, drcoffee Nov 14 06:37:30 The softpoweroff configuration is a little more complicated. Nov 14 06:38:01 You're going to have to wait for most applications to have ports released. Nov 14 06:39:05 now all i have to decide is between the 737 models and 747... Nov 14 06:39:24 Meh, I'd go 737 Nov 14 06:39:32 The caching on the 747 isn't really that useful. Nov 14 06:41:30 re Nov 14 06:43:15 Urgh . . . MicroB on OS2008 is SO MUCH BETTER. :D Nov 14 06:43:47 better in what way? Nov 14 06:46:11 Faster, stronger, more stable Nov 14 06:46:14 d-pad scrolling works Nov 14 06:47:15 is it usable on a gross script-heavy site like digg.com? Nov 14 06:47:36 also does it run youtubes fast like in the thoughtfix videos? Nov 14 06:47:47 Well, MicroB on OS2007 was fine already, but yes and yes. Nov 14 06:48:10 ty Nov 14 06:55:22 Somebody want to hax up 12pt Plankton for OS2008. :D Nov 14 06:57:40 Thanks much for everything folks! Nov 14 06:57:55 Time to go fall over, see ya tomorrow. Nov 14 07:01:06 cu Nov 14 07:02:38 hmm. crap. Nov 14 07:02:43 how can I get evince to work with cbr properly? Nov 14 07:06:24 re Nov 14 07:06:52 GeneralAntilles: caching = recording your trips? Nov 14 07:07:23 i guess you could set the n800 to do that if you had it with you... Nov 14 07:07:56 The 747 will record GPS points independent of a host device. Nov 14 07:08:04 it does look nifty for travelling... if one left the n800 behind Nov 14 07:08:05 I'd just record with the N800 Nov 14 07:08:23 Especially since you want to NAVIGATE with it Nov 14 07:08:29 not just look back at where you went. Nov 14 07:10:19 hrm yeah Nov 14 07:10:28 the only reason i might leave the n800 behind is bulk Nov 14 07:11:02 also "Please note that recorded data can only be downloaded through USB interface only." Nov 14 07:11:05 looks like it's a $20 premium for the 747 over the 737 Nov 14 07:11:31 yeah, so the n800 would be the hotel or something... Nov 14 07:11:35 not all that practical Nov 14 07:13:14 l7, you clearly don't have an n800 yet... you will never want to leave it behind ;) Nov 14 07:13:29 it's a nice size. Nov 14 07:14:50 astro76: surgicial implantation is always an option :) Nov 14 07:14:59 Anybody successfully download any of the US maps? Nov 14 07:15:19 i'm just starting to think: n800 + gps + keyboard + camera + phone... Nov 14 07:15:27 it's a lot of gadgets Nov 14 07:15:36 astro76: unless you've been spoiled by scifi devices that haven't been built yet :) Nov 14 07:15:39 i need like 1 supergadget... Nov 14 07:16:10 has anyone here read "Fast Times at Fairmont High"? Nov 14 07:17:33 or 7 extra pockets.. Nov 14 07:17:36 l7, that's why I'm leaning towards holux m1200, it's as big as a bic lighter Nov 14 07:17:41 heard of it, haven't seen it Nov 14 07:17:45 cell phone on belt clip... I'm set ;) Nov 14 07:18:10 astro76: where does the n800 go? :) Nov 14 07:18:50 Pocket! Nov 14 07:18:52 l7, it will actually fit in my jeans pocket fairly comfortably Nov 14 07:19:17 left pocket is my pen, Leatherman and keys, right pocket is cellphone, N800, (GPS) Nov 14 07:19:26 i guess one could try to get used to cargo pants... Nov 14 07:19:34 are cargo pants still "in"? Nov 14 07:19:42 they never were. Nov 14 07:19:49 Pft . . . cargo Nov 14 07:20:05 keyboard you don't need to carry everywhere Nov 14 07:20:14 true Nov 14 07:20:19 ditto with the camera Nov 14 07:20:24 Camera should have a case, anyway Nov 14 07:20:35 though it would be nice to have a little casio exlim Nov 14 07:20:59 Just get yourself a fanny-pack. :P Nov 14 07:21:07 heh, they really were never in Nov 14 07:21:08 or geek holster :) Nov 14 07:21:52 it doesn't matter what else you wear if you have a solar powered propeller beanie Nov 14 07:22:01 man purse Nov 14 07:22:15 Ha Nov 14 07:22:18 That could work. Nov 14 07:22:22 http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/bags/918a/ Nov 14 07:22:25 this is kinda cool Nov 14 07:22:37 as long as if you don't have to remove your jacket Nov 14 07:22:52 Yeah Nov 14 07:22:52 hehe Nov 14 07:23:01 once you do, people will be like: "Nice man purse." Nov 14 07:23:05 Just wear something with aluminum. Nov 14 07:23:09 people will think you're packing and you pull out an n800 Nov 14 07:23:33 astro76: great, that mean cops will shoot at me Nov 14 07:23:51 Ha Nov 14 07:23:56 You should have a permit, ANYWAY. Nov 14 07:24:03 oi Nov 14 07:24:22 http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/shoulderholster_back.jpg Nov 14 07:24:38 that's so bad :p Nov 14 07:24:39 seriously, halloween is the only day to really wear this thing Nov 14 07:24:50 heh Nov 14 07:24:52 unless you work for a government agency Nov 14 07:25:08 unless you keep a gun in it Nov 14 07:25:29 are guns compatibly with n800s? Nov 14 07:25:44 the gun would counterbalance the man-purse look Nov 14 07:25:44 i thought it was all about linux and openness, peace love, etc. Nov 14 07:25:52 haha Nov 14 07:26:11 and you could shoot anyone who made fun of you Nov 14 07:26:13 well people would think twice about saying it to your face Nov 14 07:26:42 i was contemplating buying a vest today Nov 14 07:28:46 http://eyetap.org/research/wearables/wearcomp/wearables.html Nov 14 07:28:55 there's a good picture Nov 14 07:29:23 this page has moved? Nov 14 07:29:48 i keep hearing that wearable computers are going to be the next big thing Nov 14 07:30:01 Hehe = NITs Nov 14 07:30:10 as soon as somone makes the iphone of wearable computers i guess Nov 14 07:30:15 NITs? Nov 14 07:30:15 *Insert a period or something in there. Nov 14 07:30:22 Nokia Internet Tablets Nov 14 07:30:25 oh ok Nov 14 07:30:48 well i guess i could velcro an n800 to my clothing Nov 14 07:32:08 damn, those star trek badges were pretty cool i guess Nov 14 07:32:23 Ha Nov 14 07:32:31 I like how they got bigger. Nov 14 07:32:49 they got bigger? Nov 14 07:32:54 i must have missed something Nov 14 07:34:27 From the original fabric patches to actual device things Nov 14 07:34:58 oh yeah Nov 14 07:35:04 i never watched the original much Nov 14 07:36:00 * l7 wants a working fabric n800 Nov 14 07:37:53 alright, time for bed Nov 14 07:37:54 'nite all Nov 14 07:50:28 Does OS2008 have built-in support for MMC 4.x wide-bus support and 48/52 mhz bus speeds? Nov 14 07:51:21 48mhz support: "Nokia have done tests where it’s proved unreliable and TI won’t vouch for it - so I don’t blame them for disabling it." - Philip Langdale Nov 14 07:56:15 mornink Nov 14 08:03:43 anyone running 2008 on the n800? Nov 14 08:05:40 unique311, why do you ask? Nov 14 08:06:52 i saw the post on ITT Nov 14 08:06:57 and was just curious Nov 14 08:09:01 afaik the 2008 release is not yet available for n800. which post are you talking about? Nov 14 08:09:16 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94458#post94458 Nov 14 08:09:35 ah. Nov 14 08:09:40 pupnik did the update as well Nov 14 08:09:44 http://pastebin.com/m16dd5937 Nov 14 08:09:52 using the n810 firmware Nov 14 08:10:17 uh. posting a product id isn't good :-) Nov 14 08:10:28 haha Nov 14 08:10:34 product id. Nov 14 08:10:40 mac id, same thing? Nov 14 08:10:40 too late Nov 14 08:10:49 it appears so Nov 14 08:10:55 yes. Nov 14 08:10:59 czr, won't get out of the internet Nov 14 08:11:14 sxpert, does not compute :-) Nov 14 08:11:33 that product ID won't escape from the internet Nov 14 08:11:37 but can't nokia put a block on that mac id Nov 14 08:11:39 ah. let's hope so. Nov 14 08:13:21 but then what happens to the individual with that device...he's screwed out of any future dls Nov 14 08:13:38 well he can just get someone elses mac id.. :) Nov 14 08:14:15 so pupnik, is it running good? Nov 14 08:15:04 what? Nov 14 08:15:20 2008 on the 770 Nov 14 08:15:23 hey pupnik :) Nov 14 08:15:33 haven't tried it Nov 14 08:15:44 pupnik, oh. who did? Nov 14 08:15:51 just saw your link to the pastebin Nov 14 08:16:02 tempted...but friday might be the release. Nov 14 08:16:08 so i don't see why. Nov 14 08:16:26 i should brick my n800 before then. Nov 14 08:16:57 i forgot doc|home do you have the N800? Nov 14 08:18:03 pupnik: not yet, got one today Nov 14 08:18:18 well, won the ebay auction, waiting for it Nov 14 08:18:31 congrats! Nov 14 08:19:54 thanks :) Nov 14 08:20:01 supposedly the mac was from a nokia review device Nov 14 08:20:27 I can wait for official release... glad to here the 400 MHz cpu is true though Nov 14 08:21:31 * I mean a prerelease n810 sent from nokia to a reviewer Nov 14 08:22:41 so the upgrade boost the cpu Nov 14 08:22:59 I guess it's a bug from nokia to allow the prerel macs to be used to download the firmwares then. or maybe not. who knows. Nov 14 08:23:06 doesn't mean the release for the n800 will do the same Nov 14 08:23:33 it's the same cpu as the n810... I read something about improved power management in the kernel enabling the bump Nov 14 08:23:39 and yes it's been confirmed in the n800 Nov 14 08:23:50 cool Nov 14 08:24:06 you'll still burn through battery faster if you're running games or movies, afaik Nov 14 08:24:17 I'd imagine Nov 14 08:25:20 hmm. where would one see the max speed anyway? Nov 14 08:25:25 I mean under /proc or somewhere Nov 14 08:25:33 video chat improved... Nov 14 08:25:53 /proc/acpi/processor/... perhaps Nov 14 08:26:01 no more fast-forward icon for the running program list :D Nov 14 08:26:08 vegai, no /proc/acpi/ :-) Nov 14 08:26:23 oh, ok. Nov 14 08:26:25 so the sdhc card issue seems to be fixed maybe possibly... most complaints came from transcend cards? Nov 14 08:26:30 I don't have my device yet... Nov 14 08:27:41 pupnik, what problem is that? no problems here with transcend 8gb sdhc.... AFAIK there is a 4gb model that many camera users have had problems with Nov 14 08:28:32 there's all kinds of worrying chatter on the forum, talk of fake brandname cards, low quality cards from china, a bug 1204 and a fix in the recent firmware Nov 14 08:28:33 <_Monkey> Bug 1204 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1204 Nov 14 08:28:40 hah Nov 14 08:29:20 well.. considering number of users overall - i've just seen a handful of ppl with problems Nov 14 08:29:32 always keep the perspective Nov 14 08:29:35 Hu Nov 14 08:29:36 pupnik, oh.. yeah you gotta stick to good brands from sources which don't sell counterfeits Nov 14 08:29:39 Hi Nov 14 08:29:56 guten morning Khertan Nov 14 08:31:25 I ve seen that some install 20087on n800 and some python dependencies are missing Nov 14 08:31:49 Guten tag pupnik Nov 14 08:51:14 wow, that was thoughtfix mac addy....shitty Nov 14 08:52:38 not that big a deal really Nov 14 08:52:51 http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=6219097 Nov 14 08:52:57 Engadget too Nov 14 08:53:24 lol Nov 14 08:53:28 spam Nov 14 08:53:32 stupid spammers Nov 14 08:53:35 hit and run Nov 14 08:53:36 lol Nov 14 08:54:09 so, someone clarify for me please, the n800 doesn't have gps, right? Nov 14 08:54:16 no Nov 14 08:54:41 you can buy a gps dongle. Nov 14 08:54:44 you can pair with a bluetooth gps though, and get high quality reception Nov 14 08:54:50 bluetooth or usb? Nov 14 08:55:00 bluetooth Nov 14 08:55:10 sure, but they say "integrated gps", that's not integrated Nov 14 08:55:13 * doc|home looks for the page Nov 14 08:55:26 sue them for fall advertising then. Nov 14 08:55:37 who says? Nov 14 08:55:55 the nokia website, while showing a black object that looks like a dongle Nov 14 08:56:05 link Nov 14 08:56:15 my first thought being "if that has to connect to the n800, it's not integrated" Nov 14 08:56:16 http://www.pennergame.de/ref.php?refid=1579358 Nov 14 08:56:18 looking for it now Nov 14 08:56:27 that' Nov 14 08:56:32 s the same fucktard Nov 14 08:56:51 spammer eh Nov 14 08:57:09 his here to stay Nov 14 08:57:24 gladiator09_1047, whats with the link? Nov 14 08:57:27 too late Nov 14 08:57:31 some ref shit game prolly Nov 14 08:57:35 yeah Nov 14 08:57:40 shittiest shit on the internet Nov 14 08:58:02 a moron detector as well though, anyone participating in them is a moron Nov 14 08:59:20 2 hits... Nov 14 08:59:28 third times a charm Nov 14 09:01:13 and of course, now I can't find the link :/ Nov 14 09:03:33 http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/05/nokia-n800-internet-tablet-unboxed/ Nov 14 09:03:49 if you ctrl-f "integrated gps" I'm not the only person who has seen it Nov 14 09:03:57 anyway, minor detail Nov 14 09:04:29 woot :) Nov 14 09:07:18 maybe it was a typo Nov 14 09:07:58 I guess it depends a lot on what the original text said? Nov 14 09:07:59 http://www.navigadget.com/index.php/2007/01/08/nokia-n800-does-navigation-too/ Nov 14 09:08:13 I know the N800 software update added an integrated gps framework Nov 14 09:08:32 which integrates an api in software for apps to use I think Nov 14 09:09:33 keyword = new Nov 14 09:09:43 which is the n810 Nov 14 09:09:57 yeah Nov 14 09:10:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Shuttle_mounting_point.JPG Nov 14 09:10:28 :) Nov 14 09:10:32 awesome Nov 14 09:11:53 nope, definitely said "integrated gps" Nov 14 09:11:54 tigert, mwahahahaha Nov 14 09:11:56 anyway Nov 14 09:12:00 zZzZz Nov 14 09:12:02 tigert: Nice ;) Nov 14 09:12:03 night Nov 14 09:12:06 tigert, I love the "note" Nov 14 09:12:11 yeah Nov 14 09:12:23 its pretty awesome :) Nov 14 09:12:44 Morning, all Nov 14 09:15:38 hello Nov 14 09:22:00 bon dia / good morning Nov 14 09:29:36 hello guys Nov 14 09:29:58 I'm planning to port my Photoshop to Maemo but it seems I missed discounts for developers on N810 Nov 14 09:30:10 is there any other way to get this nokia for development? Nov 14 09:30:25 well it's not for sale in my country as well :( Nov 14 09:30:44 we don't believe you've written Photoshop :) Nov 14 09:31:33 cosmo: http://www.kanzelsberger.com Nov 14 09:31:35 quite nice this leaked os2008.. friend just demoed to me Nov 14 09:32:06 cosmo: this is linux screenshot: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/img/linux.png Nov 14 09:32:15 application is highly portable and I can easily port it to Maemo Nov 14 09:32:19 that's Pixel, not Photoshop Nov 14 09:32:23 hehe yeah Nov 14 09:32:35 but if I said Pixel, nobody knows what it is Nov 14 09:32:37 :-D Nov 14 09:32:43 i've heard of it Nov 14 09:32:48 pupnik: ok ;-) Nov 14 09:32:50 btw nice looking app Nov 14 09:32:55 http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/index.html this is ps ;) Nov 14 09:33:17 :) Nov 14 09:33:39 so is there anybody I should officialy contact? Nov 14 09:33:45 or I just missed that Nov 14 09:33:49 Pixel looks good.. i hope you can get it ported Nov 14 09:34:06 cosmo: i checked prerequisities, it's doable in one weekend Nov 14 09:34:09 you missed it, but n800s are fairly cheap now and just as fast Nov 14 09:34:14 cosmo: polishing for 800x480 will take few more days Nov 14 09:34:17 cosmo, is he runnin 2008 on n800? Nov 14 09:34:24 czr: yep Nov 14 09:34:33 ah. people have been wondering about it here. Nov 14 09:34:35 pupnik: well I guess I'll buy N810 on web somehow when it is out Nov 14 09:34:39 cosmo, you're not running it yet? :-) Nov 14 09:34:45 Kaco: how about lack of right mouse button? Nov 14 09:34:46 you like the keyboard? Nov 14 09:34:52 pupnik: yeah and GPS :) Nov 14 09:35:10 when is it planned to go on sale? december? Nov 14 09:35:28 czr: not yet.. i've got other stuff to do with my n800 and at home i've got only 770 Nov 14 09:35:45 hello Nov 14 09:35:54 I dunno, mid november supposedly Nov 14 09:36:02 cosmo, right. good info though. thanks Nov 14 09:36:02 maemo planet Nov 14 09:36:09 he said the flash image is available at nokia d/l site and there's a mac code of n810 somewhere available. check blogs Nov 14 09:36:11 pupnik: mid november is now? Nov 14 09:36:17 I have a problem Nov 14 09:36:29 cosmo, the instructions did flow through here already :-) Nov 14 09:36:32 with the edit of wiki Nov 14 09:36:35 cosmo, check the irclog ;-) Nov 14 09:36:38 macs and all. Nov 14 09:36:48 ok, thanks Nov 14 09:36:56 in particular with the page wikireorg Nov 14 09:36:56 ok and last question Nov 14 09:37:03 is N800 and N810 compatible? Nov 14 09:37:12 yes, same OS Nov 14 09:37:13 i mean when I produce app for N800 will it work on N810 and vice versa? Nov 14 09:37:24 Kaco, yes. if they both are running the same version of OS Nov 14 09:37:29 ok that's great Nov 14 09:37:30 some N800s will still be running older OS version Nov 14 09:37:37 because don't link to the original page Nov 14 09:37:37 the 2008 version hasn't been (yet/officially) been released for N800 Nov 14 09:37:42 so N800 can be updated to OS2008? Nov 14 09:37:46 Kaco, yes Nov 14 09:37:47 yes Nov 14 09:37:48 ah ok Nov 14 09:37:51 but it is planned i guess Nov 14 09:37:59 it works nicely Nov 14 09:38:07 for 2008, you'll want to use the 4.0 sdk though. Nov 14 09:38:08 hmm but that keyboard really rocks on N810 Nov 14 09:38:08 Kaco: yes, soonish. There's an unofficial hack now. Nov 14 09:38:15 ok Nov 14 09:38:35 there's N800 on ebay for $260 ... and N810 will be something about $490 Nov 14 09:38:37 Can someone help Nov 14 09:38:39 i will think about it :) Nov 14 09:38:46 me to the wiki problem Nov 14 09:38:51 i promise not to work on mtpaint (cough) Nov 14 09:38:51 Kaco, it boils down to the keyboard and gps really. Nov 14 09:39:10 well and that is a good reason for me to wait for N810 Nov 14 09:39:11 Kaco, maybe size too, but the size diff is pretty marginal Nov 14 09:39:16 but it's expensive damn it Nov 14 09:39:23 it also looks better ;-) Nov 14 09:39:33 sony ux is expensive Nov 14 09:39:59 Kaco, if you already have a working bt GPS, I'd go for the N800 Nov 14 09:40:16 otoh, it's up to you of course :-) Nov 14 09:40:25 how many commercial apps are there for the tablets? Nov 14 09:40:31 well GPS is not that important for me, more like a bonus Nov 14 09:40:34 but keyboard :) Nov 14 09:41:00 I still write faster with the vkb on n800 than the keyboard on n810 :-) Nov 14 09:41:06 but I guess there are some USB keyboards ? Nov 14 09:41:13 the keyboard needs some time to get used to Nov 14 09:41:15 Kaco - there appears to also be pressure sensitivity for the stylus that you can use Nov 14 09:41:18 czr: do you have N810? Nov 14 09:41:24 Kaco, yes. Nov 14 09:41:28 pupnik: oh with N810?? that's cool Nov 14 09:41:38 czr: but it is not yet on sale... so you've got dev version? Nov 14 09:41:47 I built one myself! Nov 14 09:41:50 * czr hides and runs Nov 14 09:41:52 Kaco, no reason for ebay, it's ~230 in regular stores Nov 14 09:41:54 czr: haha, how? Nov 14 09:42:01 Kaco, joking. dev version. Nov 14 09:42:16 czr: ok do you think it is still possible to get dev version from nokia? Nov 14 09:42:27 czr: I tried to contact them, but they left me with no response Nov 14 09:42:32 ah, if you mean the developer program, then probably not Nov 14 09:42:37 Kaco, the display on the n810 is also a big consideration Nov 14 09:42:51 astro76: yeah I read somewhere it has better contrast Nov 14 09:42:57 czr: hm too bad Nov 14 09:43:05 Kaco, I didn't participate in the dev program. those will be sold when the device hits the markets Nov 14 09:43:20 Kaco, it's transflective, readable in full sunlight Nov 14 09:43:26 czr: so how did you get it? :) Nov 14 09:43:30 oh Nov 14 09:43:31 http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet_W0QQitemZ250185455384QQihZ015QQcategoryZ32233QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Nov 14 09:43:35 there's one N810 on ebay Nov 14 09:43:47 Kaco, it's a secret. Nov 14 09:44:05 ahha :-D Nov 14 09:44:32 timeless, hmm. weird. seems that keeping a youtube page open in microb will keep the device from going into powersave mode. Nov 14 09:44:53 timeless, although not really sure whether this is a microb issue, but people are likely to run into it with youtube anyway Nov 14 09:45:14 or maybe something else is happening.. mhmhm. Nov 14 09:45:26 cause now the backlight was shut off.. Nov 14 09:45:39 well you wouldn't want to go to powersave when viewing a vid, no? Nov 14 09:45:45 maybe something in the flash? Nov 14 09:45:54 gla55_, the vid is not running anymore Nov 14 09:46:12 could be. I'll leave it on for a while, maybe it will repeat somehow. maybe a stupid user error too. Nov 14 09:48:43 is the developer program already over? Nov 14 09:49:08 the 500 people have been notified already Nov 14 09:49:26 so i didn't get one this time :-/ Nov 14 09:54:13 I took the plunge. Nov 14 09:55:12 youtube plays well on the danm thing now. Nov 14 09:55:49 unique311: really ? :) Nov 14 09:56:10 like a film or again low fps ? Nov 14 09:56:25 that's a big plus for casual users Nov 14 09:56:27 its not choppy Nov 14 09:56:48 it plays smooth as soon as you click on the link Nov 14 09:57:15 my PC doesn't even do that :) Nov 14 09:57:20 plus for os2008 looking really good Nov 14 09:59:19 see how gizmo acts Nov 14 09:59:25 and then test skype Nov 14 09:59:47 wow Nov 14 09:59:49 great Nov 14 10:00:02 unable to install skype. Nov 14 10:00:06 hope os2008 for n800 coem out soon Nov 14 10:00:07 not avail yet Nov 14 10:00:08 come* Nov 14 10:00:35 unique311: i think i'll install in 'dual boot' :) Nov 14 10:00:50 os2007 on internal flash and os2008 on mmc Nov 14 10:00:51 :) Nov 14 10:01:01 don't see why not Nov 14 10:01:14 well i wouldn't Nov 14 10:01:29 at least until a goon number of apps comes on os2008 Nov 14 10:01:38 good* Nov 14 10:01:42 czr, maybe it is a feature in the flash plugin to disable screen blanking during vid? Nov 14 10:01:43 i took the change because i am going to get a n810 Nov 14 10:01:47 anyway guys is there any GSM module for N800/810? Nov 14 10:01:49 L0cutus: How will you solve the 2 different kernels problem? ;) Nov 14 10:01:58 it would be great if there was possibility to use GSM with this tablet Nov 14 10:02:02 inz, the screen has been off now for a while. maybe not. one doesn't know :-) Nov 14 10:02:03 i could throw away my phone Nov 14 10:02:18 Kaco: no Nov 14 10:02:19 X-Fade_: dunno :D Nov 14 10:02:23 (afaik) Nov 14 10:02:27 yeah :( Nov 14 10:02:36 oh maybe can I use my phone and do calls over bluetooth? Nov 14 10:02:37 Kaco: but voip is coming strongly :) Nov 14 10:02:38 on n770 i am getting 263kB/s write speed to 2GB kingston mmc Nov 14 10:02:41 that would be usable too Nov 14 10:02:56 L0cutus: The idea is nice, but you'd have to change the kernel each time you want to boot the other os.. Nov 14 10:03:40 sure about that? Nov 14 10:04:52 pupnik: And initfs too.. Nov 14 10:05:18 I'm pretty sure that dsme is NOT going to be amused when running on a different kernel ;) Nov 14 10:09:40 too bad Nov 14 10:09:58 there is not enough space for a multi-kernel bootloader? Nov 14 10:10:46 As far as I know, the kernel 'partition' is pretty small. Nov 14 10:11:22 so now to develop for all versions maemo one needs 4 devices? Nov 14 10:11:47 or 3 Nov 14 10:12:20 pupnik: Scratchbox not enough? :) Nov 14 10:13:09 for some apps, no Nov 14 10:13:28 what's the best pdf viewer for n800 ? Nov 14 10:13:35 but i think many people will upgrade to 2008 Nov 14 10:13:50 L0cutus: evince? Nov 14 10:13:53 pupnik: My guess is that after a month orso almost all people run 2008 ;) Nov 14 10:13:59 not the internal one ? Nov 14 10:14:15 L0cutus: hard to say, I have used only evince ;) Nov 14 10:14:24 ha ok :) Nov 14 10:15:02 i am happiest just hating pdfs Nov 14 10:15:13 and not much, I have to admit.. Nov 14 10:16:33 pupnik: what's wrong with pdf ? Nov 14 10:16:37 closed format ? Nov 14 10:16:57 too fat and slow Nov 14 10:17:12 agreed. Nov 14 10:17:18 and yeah binary now. early .ps was text-editable Nov 14 10:17:41 pupnik, why would you want to edit ps? :-) Nov 14 10:17:52 alternatives ? Nov 14 10:17:52 pdf as a format is not too fat and slow Nov 14 10:17:57 the problem is that people use it the wrong way Nov 14 10:18:10 putting text as images for example, that makes pdfs very slow Nov 14 10:18:20 the pdf base format is quite simple though. much easier to use than ps ever was. ps was too free-form for structural processing. Nov 14 10:18:24 give another example Nov 14 10:19:14 well, using it for the wrong purposes Nov 14 10:19:24 documents intended for online viewing should be html Nov 14 10:19:34 thats not what pdf was designed for Nov 14 10:20:03 it was designed for having a single format that would look the same both on the computer and when printed Nov 14 10:20:11 pdf wasn't designed, it is a cancer Nov 14 10:20:15 so its good for things like newspapers, books, some documents Nov 14 10:21:05 i'm trying to open a 30mb pdf book ... Nov 14 10:21:06 L0cutus: well you can download pdf2html Nov 14 10:21:24 i disagree that it's good. i think it's bad. Nov 14 10:21:24 thanks, i'll try Nov 14 10:21:26 pupnik, being cancer doesn't mean it wasn't designed. the current specs are quite bloated, javascript, flash and whatnot. but it doesn't mean that pdf wasn't designed Nov 14 10:21:35 L0cutus, if its 30mb then it probably have lots of images Nov 14 10:21:44 it is a rails book Nov 14 10:21:47 the 1.0-1.2 were still pretty good versions. although 1.2 started getting a lot of complex operators and implementing them correctly is difficult. Nov 14 10:22:10 what still gets me is pdfs total lack of unicode support. Nov 14 10:22:32 it's just crazy what must be done in order to embed a ttf which uses unidode codepoints (more than 256 of them at once) Nov 14 10:22:40 sure, it would be better if everyone switched to LaTeX Nov 14 10:22:46 but thats not going to happen Nov 14 10:23:18 I'd think latex target is slightly different though Nov 14 10:23:50 anyhow, back to work -> Nov 14 10:24:43 hi! i locked my IT (n800) by accident (maemo didn't ask for original password when i accidentally chose "lock"). does anyone know how to fix this? Nov 14 10:25:16 nokia service centers are not very helpful, here in my area they don't know how to handle a n800 Nov 14 10:25:35 try 12345? Nov 14 10:26:15 hmm. didn't it ask you for a lock code when you did the "device lock"? Nov 14 10:26:16 czr, i had changed to code many months ago, i never itended so use the lock so i didn't remember the code :/ Nov 14 10:26:20 ah Nov 14 10:26:32 not sure whether reflashing will erase the lock Nov 14 10:26:35 anyone? Nov 14 10:26:36 czr, nope, that's the problem Nov 14 10:26:46 I see. Nov 14 10:27:03 sebu_: You can try to flash the old OS2006 image. I remember that there was a but in it that cleared the code.. Nov 14 10:27:16 s/but/bug/ Nov 14 10:27:16 X-Fade_ meant: sebu_: You can try to flash the old OS2006 image. I remember that there was a bug in it that cleared the code.. Nov 14 10:27:24 czr, according to wiki flashing does not reset the lock (they say some old firmware updates reset it, but i don't know which... Nov 14 10:27:42 X-Fade_, is there only one OS2006 image around? Nov 14 10:27:52 And did you try that? Nov 14 10:29:17 X-Fade_, i didn't try firmware updates yet for one reason: i have ssh access to the device, so i "hacked" it by replacing some binaries which block bootup / ask for the pin with dummy shell scripts :) so i can use the IT, but as soon as i reflash (and i want OS2008!) the device will be locked again Nov 14 10:30:16 sebu_: Just flash 2006 before you go to 2008 ;) Nov 14 10:30:21 X-Fade_, do you know if there is only one OS2006 version? Nov 14 10:30:36 sebu_: And make a backup of your fs via ssh.. Nov 14 10:30:40 sebu_: I think so.. Nov 14 10:31:44 X-Fade_, do you have any source for the information that OS2006 resets the device lock code? (if not i'm locked out and have to send my IT to finland *ouch*) Nov 14 10:39:32 hmmm, wasn't N800 shipped with OS2007? i can't find OS2006 for N800... Nov 14 10:40:46 yes it was Nov 14 10:42:38 the browser is really sweet on the 08 Nov 14 10:42:50 tried the facebook. Nov 14 10:43:56 if you have a facebook, go with iphone.facebook.com alot of the crappy applications that people install are left out. Nov 14 10:45:00 friggin annoying and useless those apps Nov 14 10:45:11 yes Nov 14 10:45:12 you can block them Nov 14 10:45:15 but then again it's only thing that makes facebook a little unique Nov 14 10:45:26 the most common and annoying ones Nov 14 10:45:36 the annoying facebook apps make up for all the animated gifs on myspace Nov 14 10:45:44 i hate all of those addon apps Nov 14 10:45:47 i just don't browse othre peoples profiles Nov 14 10:45:53 becoming myspace really fast Nov 14 10:45:59 i quit using facebook about 2 weeks after they added the apps Nov 14 10:46:06 only reason i got it to get in touch if i need with some hometown friends Nov 14 10:46:26 beginning to see ads Nov 14 10:46:31 who are not in linkedin Nov 14 10:46:41 90% of the apps ARE ads Nov 14 10:47:04 did you upgrade a N800 to OS2008? was the device lock pin reset? Nov 14 10:47:09 gotta expect that when something becomes very popular now. Nov 14 10:47:39 device lock pin? Nov 14 10:47:48 running it right now. Nov 14 10:48:03 for a good hour now Nov 14 10:48:14 no apps available for it. Nov 14 10:48:29 but it looks really good, and i cannot stop stressing this. Nov 14 10:48:31 shit Nov 14 10:48:50 it does look prettier :-) Nov 14 10:49:00 cool :) Nov 14 10:49:05 unique311, using the combined image on n800? Nov 14 10:49:10 * X-Fade_ is porting maemo-mapper to chinook atm. But it is quite a bit of work.. Nov 14 10:49:20 combine image? wtf Nov 14 10:49:29 i just followed the instructions on cnet Nov 14 10:49:36 nothing special Nov 14 10:50:11 new OS should be out friday or next week. i hope. so i took the change on this. Nov 14 10:50:34 next week? Nov 14 10:50:40 on nokias website it says december Nov 14 10:50:40 hopefully Nov 14 10:50:44 wtf Nov 14 10:50:46 lol Nov 14 10:50:53 seriously Nov 14 10:51:03 thats not cool Nov 14 10:51:04 but just flash over the 810 image :P Nov 14 10:51:11 december is in 2 weeks or so anyway, right? :) Nov 14 10:51:14 unique311, combined fw. the one that is meant for RX-44 but says RX-34 ... COMBINED :-) Nov 14 10:52:11 czr, I do not know. I followed the instructions on cnet, and installed the OS Nov 14 10:52:17 I understand all your excitement, but without ported apps OS2008 isn't very usefull ;) Nov 14 10:52:20 unique311, URL? Nov 14 10:52:25 So start porting those apps please! Nov 14 10:52:42 X-Fade_: no kidding Nov 14 10:53:34 speaking of Chinook... Any idea why an osso_initialize() line that works in Bora fails in Chinook? Nov 14 10:53:47 Returns NULL Nov 14 10:53:50 http://www.cnet.com/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html Nov 14 10:54:04 Gubbe, you run with run-standalone.sh? Nov 14 10:54:30 unique311, step 3: ..COMBINED.. :-) Nov 14 10:54:35 czr: No. What does it do? Nov 14 10:54:50 I'm running on the device, latest RD image Nov 14 10:55:03 i worked on POSe, but with Garnet VM making its debut, i don't have to do a port for os2008. Nov 14 10:55:17 czr, cool Nov 14 10:55:17 czr: Combined as in 'bootloaders,kernel, initfs and rootfs' ;) Nov 14 10:55:19 Gubbe, ah, then I don't know. works for me, but I'm not using latest rd Nov 14 10:55:31 X-Fade_, as opposed to LEGACY ;-) Nov 14 10:55:45 czr: Right. Thanks anyway =) Nov 14 10:56:03 X-Fade_, any idea why they're flashing the parts separately though? in the instructions Nov 14 10:56:04 czr: Nope, check OS2007 for 770.. Nov 14 10:56:23 czr: As flashing the bootloaders will brick your device perhaps? :) Nov 14 10:56:30 X-Fade_, ah. I see. Nov 14 10:56:45 czr, that firmware was the only available firmware on the n810's page Nov 14 10:56:49 well. my image has LEGACY in it anyway. don't know/don't care what it means. but it's not COMBINED :-) Nov 14 10:56:51 There _is_ a reason why Nokia provides a different image for N800. Be careful. Nov 14 10:56:54 unique311, I know Nov 14 10:58:01 yes some custom things i think ... Like 'integrated gps panel' :) Nov 14 10:59:18 Python doesn t install Nov 14 10:59:25 czr: Just to check, what image are you using where it does work? Nov 14 10:59:41 Gubbe, non-public ones Nov 14 10:59:49 i think all things aren t ready yet Nov 14 11:00:19 It s what many people say on itt Nov 14 11:01:29 well, you can probably expect some hiccups if you shoehorn the n810 image to n800 Nov 14 11:01:39 if it works, neat Nov 14 11:02:15 also some stuff ight just not even work because the hw might be different Nov 14 11:02:46 [11:52:17] I understand all your excitement, but without ported apps OS2008 isn't very usefull ;) Nov 14 11:02:53 it has a shell and perl, what else could you possibly need? :P Nov 14 11:03:42 ssh of course Nov 14 11:03:50 but the bora build works Nov 14 11:03:51 Python to make application and port old one Nov 14 11:04:47 As python seems to be broken is the wmware sdk image Nov 14 11:05:26 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94509&postcount=18 Nov 14 11:05:30 check out that post Nov 14 11:05:40 very smart individual. Nov 14 11:06:08 figured out how to get that mac addy. Nov 14 11:07:10 unique311: There is a reason why they ask you for that mac address. ;) Nov 14 11:07:30 Stricly speaking you are commiting piracy :D Nov 14 11:07:37 unique311, thanks for calling me smart :P Nov 14 11:07:54 i'm committing piracy. Nov 14 11:08:07 for posting the link. Nov 14 11:08:36 TPC, you're welcome Nov 14 11:09:02 i hate pirates X-Fade_ Nov 14 11:09:08 unique311 is robbing ships? isn't that the definition of pirating? :P Nov 14 11:09:24 arrr Nov 14 11:09:29 i think he means the internet type Nov 14 11:11:36 I can't decide if I should try OS2008 now or wait for more apps to be ported Nov 14 11:12:16 X-Fade_, Honestly, more care when the pictures was being, and reviewing logs. All this would not be going on. Nov 14 11:15:53 just find it funny. reading the thread on ITT people share the same views X-fade, but still they are running the new os on the n800. Nov 14 11:16:40 unique311: Everybody is curious ;) Nov 14 11:16:49 X-Fade_, also, strictly speaking he wasn't commiting piracy Nov 14 11:16:50 Can't blame them for it.. Nov 14 11:17:01 showing someone where something can be gotten is not illegal Nov 14 11:17:07 only the act of actually getting it is Nov 14 11:17:24 TPC: he installed it, right? :) Nov 14 11:17:30 oh Nov 14 11:17:33 I didn't know that :P Nov 14 11:17:34 i hate pirates, but once in a while uses the bittorrent..... ;) Nov 14 11:17:54 How do you know this X-Fade_ Nov 14 11:18:46 11:52 < unique311> czr, I do not know. I followed the instructions on cnet, and installed the OS Nov 14 11:18:55 I have a backscroll, you know ;) Nov 14 11:18:57 X-Fade_ ? Nov 14 11:19:10 ah. I see, nm :-) Nov 14 11:19:25 hehe ;) Nov 14 11:19:55 My words cannot be taken seriously. Nov 14 11:20:13 unique311: I'm just messing with you, don't worry ;) Nov 14 11:20:27 I'm 25% crazy Nov 14 11:21:01 even crazy people go to prison :-) Nov 14 11:21:02 i speaka no engrish Nov 14 11:21:11 ah, that's much better :-) Nov 14 11:21:23 no crazy people go to the fun house, where they get lots of drugs.. Nov 14 11:21:38 much better than the big house, where they get lots of love Nov 14 11:21:43 well, I obviously have less experience in this than you, so :-) Nov 14 11:22:28 czr, you get in trouble with the law, plead crazy Nov 14 11:22:36 I don't get into trouble. Nov 14 11:23:07 good to know type of advice. Nov 14 11:23:22 especially if you don't get in trouble. Nov 14 11:24:07 I got in trouble once, and i couldn't use the crazy excuse. Nov 14 11:24:31 i hop the turnstile when i was 16 Nov 14 11:24:40 that wasn't fun. Nov 14 11:25:10 $1.50 turn out to be $175 Nov 14 11:25:23 fine Nov 14 11:37:35 morning all... Nov 14 11:38:08 lo maddler Nov 14 11:38:20 anyone experience about / hints for downgrading n800 to OS2006 (yes, you're reading right, not OS2008) Nov 14 11:39:37 hi Nov 14 11:39:38 <_Monkey> hola, workingplayya Nov 14 11:39:50 hi Nov 14 11:39:53 is there a GtkScaleButton in maemo Nov 14 11:40:11 does somebody got a hacked fiasco image of OS2008? Nov 14 11:40:48 i have a not hacked one but you dont get it Nov 14 11:41:20 lol Nov 14 11:41:37 workingplayya http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810/downloads/RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Nov 14 11:41:46 i have this one Nov 14 11:42:30 i have a other one but cant show you the url Nov 14 11:43:24 whats the name of the arm.bin? Nov 14 11:43:25 :D Nov 14 11:43:33 Witch one ? Nov 14 11:44:02 we got a witch in here? Nov 14 11:44:11 which witch is which? Nov 14 11:44:24 who ate the wristwatch in the sandwidch? Nov 14 11:44:36 Arf i m not english and my english is worse Nov 14 11:44:38 * timeless passes czr a spell checker Nov 14 11:44:42 timeless, ignore my previous post about problem with microb+flash thingy Nov 14 11:44:49 sandwitch Nov 14 11:44:54 sandwich :-) Nov 14 11:44:57 czr: scrollback? Nov 14 11:45:02 timeless, yeah. just ignore it Nov 14 11:45:18 `GtkScaleButton' undeclared (first use in this function) is it available? Nov 14 11:45:19 sandbitch :D Nov 14 11:45:25 maybe in hildon libs Nov 14 11:45:37 ok Nov 14 11:48:23 working, GtkScaleButton first appeared in gtk 2.12 Nov 14 11:50:59 inz cant find it in /usr/include/gtk-2.0/gtk Nov 14 11:51:24 working, that's because maemo <4.0 has 2.6 and >= 4.0 has 2.10 Nov 14 11:54:07 oh Nov 14 11:54:19 i thougt you ment its working :D Nov 14 12:07:31 inz: your inequality is wrong on the >= side :) Nov 14 12:07:36 it should be >= 2.10 ;-) Nov 14 12:10:17 Hmm, thought this link would reveal the N810: http://www.nseries.com/truestories/ Nov 14 12:10:28 But it just stopped counting down. Nov 14 12:10:39 http://www.nseries.com/truestories/main.swf Nov 14 12:10:39 http://www.womworld.com/nseries/wp-rss2.php?cat=511 Nov 14 12:10:39 http://widget.meebo.com/mcr.swf?id=HWEXbukIpH Nov 14 12:10:42 nice page Nov 14 12:10:48 * timeless kicks nokia Nov 14 12:12:37 Hmm, maybe it was just count down for the N82. Nov 14 12:12:51 But I'm still disapointed Nov 14 12:14:00 If you decompile the flash applet you ll see reference to n82 Nov 14 12:15:55 note that nseries != n8xx Nov 14 12:16:03 nseries includes the n81 gb Nov 14 12:16:10 and various other "devices" Nov 14 12:16:21 that start with n.. Nov 14 12:16:23 i'd call them "multimedia computers", but currently i'm yelling at someone for .... Nov 14 12:16:32 they call them multimedia computers Nov 14 12:16:35 they as in nokia Nov 14 12:16:43 they as in someone in marketing Nov 14 12:16:59 they made a big hassle of it.. hmm was it last year Nov 14 12:17:05 that they're no longer phones Nov 14 12:17:06 because, when was the last time your laptop refused to connect to the ethernet cable simply because your wifi card was disabled Nov 14 12:17:21 or when was the last time your laptop refused to mute just because it wasn't connected to a network Nov 14 12:17:30 ehm Nov 14 12:17:34 my first nseries device has both of those features Nov 14 12:17:36 what n-series phone does that happen? Nov 14 12:17:41 is there a port of flasher-3 for windows? Nov 14 12:17:43 probably all of them Nov 14 12:17:48 i can even get wifi when in offline from gsm network Nov 14 12:17:58 gla55_: try removing the sim Nov 14 12:17:58 and chance to having no sounds in offline Nov 14 12:18:12 and then switching to silent mode Nov 14 12:18:29 oh, silent mode is an online mode Nov 14 12:18:44 but my offline mode is set to silent so.. Nov 14 12:18:46 hi :) Nov 14 12:19:25 "silent" is just a profile name, can be changed too Nov 14 12:19:36 yeah, but you can't change to any profile w/o a sim Nov 14 12:19:41 which is what's bothering me Nov 14 12:19:50 and it refuses to automatically use the wifi in most apps Nov 14 12:20:08 it'll say ~you're offline, do you really want to activate (wifi|bluetooth)~ Nov 14 12:20:37 i've been using this n81 for two days w/o the sim and intend to until probably monday Nov 14 12:21:08 what you'd need would be more offline profiles, so you could have offline-silent and offline-sounds Nov 14 12:21:41 i want an offline-online profile Nov 14 12:21:51 so that i can use bluetooth and wifi without being bothered Nov 14 12:22:23 but yes, for now, an offline-silent v. offline-sounds would be a start Nov 14 12:22:38 btw, can you find a "support" section for the n81/ Nov 14 12:22:47 i'd like to ask why i can't activate maps using my wifi network Nov 14 12:22:47 timeless, it should've most likely been >= 4.0 && < 5.0 Nov 14 12:22:57 inz: probably Nov 14 12:23:09 'course, there's no guarantee wrt what 4.1 will have Nov 14 12:23:12 (if it exists!) Nov 14 12:23:23 hrm Nov 14 12:23:28 has nokia broken ABI in minor releases? Nov 14 12:23:33 timeless: "support"? i would imagine most s60 3rd ed tips/tricks/etc are the same as on any other Nov 14 12:23:52 Crap, what's the command to force a debian package to reconfigure? Nov 14 12:23:55 gla: phone number that'd get me someone who will "help" or listen Nov 14 12:24:04 timeless, at least the packages I've built with 3.0 target have all worked on 3.2 Nov 14 12:24:08 timeless: hah.. no, not really. Nov 14 12:24:12 timeless, same goes for 2.0 and 2.2 Nov 14 12:24:17 inz: ok :) Nov 14 12:24:38 timeless: call centers just know the stuff thats on manual... Nov 14 12:24:39 alterego, dpkg --force-all --configure ? Nov 14 12:24:49 inz, thanks :) Nov 14 12:24:54 alterego, oh sorry, reconfigure, dunno that Nov 14 12:25:05 alterego, dpkg-reconfigure should help you there Nov 14 12:25:12 Okay. Nov 14 12:30:29 Sweet, I just managed to port maemo-mapper to chinook ;) Nov 14 12:33:32 Good job. Nov 14 12:33:36 Maemo mapper is funky. Nov 14 12:42:18 osso-email still doesn t work more than an half day Nov 14 12:43:09 X-Fade_: got a package? :) Nov 14 12:43:53 X-Fade_: yay! Nov 14 12:45:13 tigert: privmsg.. Nov 14 12:54:52 hello Nov 14 12:55:06 still cannot login on maemo.org :( Nov 14 13:04:43 guardian: eh? Nov 14 13:05:11 registered yesterday on garage, login on maemo.org doesn't work Nov 14 13:06:01 so, i found the best way to hunt for lost devices in my apt Nov 14 13:06:07 send them files via bluetooth :) Nov 14 13:08:17 So when we'll be able to install Android based platform to our tablets? Nov 14 13:09:17 Android makes nokia's internet table os efforts slightly obsolete IMHO... Nov 14 13:09:21 heard of people asking for the web browser...you want the whole enchilada Nov 14 13:09:47 you work for google pc_speaker? Nov 14 13:10:17 No I don't work for Google :) Nov 14 13:11:08 But it's good idea to have only one mobile linux platform. Nov 14 13:11:12 pc_speaker: I totally disagree with you :) Nov 14 13:11:32 (with the first comment) Nov 14 13:11:34 google is following suit on what nokia is doing. by the time android make its grand entrance in the game, ITos is going to be so advance. Nov 14 13:11:35 So the time won't be wasted doing same things. Nov 14 13:12:13 But nokia is not going to pay 10 millions to the developers :))) Nov 14 13:12:22 money talks.. Nov 14 13:12:24 pc_speaker: have you actually looked at the android? the only amazing thing is that it is attached to the google trademark. Nov 14 13:12:24 you are right Nov 14 13:12:44 suihkulokki, he is right about the money Nov 14 13:12:50 unique311 - at least android already supports 3d which is more than you can say for IT OS... Nov 14 13:13:24 3d on android is on the roadmap, there is no 3d usage visible in what they have so far shown Nov 14 13:13:45 sure there is, watch the video on youtube Nov 14 13:14:06 suihkulokki, they do have 3d support already. Nov 14 13:14:28 they showed the spinning globe time app Nov 14 13:14:34 I'm looking at the sources. the videos could be..videos! Nov 14 13:14:46 and they use gl for compositing/transition effects.. Nov 14 13:15:03 suihkulokki: just grab the sdk and launch the emulator ;) Nov 14 13:16:17 I did try the emulator, and was deeply unimpressed Nov 14 13:16:32 I'm sure software GL rendering is available, but I doubt that will make anyone happy... Nov 14 13:16:36 thats alot of money. Nov 14 13:16:49 10 million is going to make alot of devs happy Nov 14 13:17:17 zuh: GL support is merely a driver issue nowadays.. Nov 14 13:17:27 unique311: depends how many devs they are giving that to.. 10 million devs? Wouldn't make them really happe.. ;) Nov 14 13:17:32 jott: exactly Nov 14 13:17:37 happy* Nov 14 13:18:12 omap 2420 also has a powervr on it.. Nov 14 13:18:19 aots: the max is in the 6 digits Nov 14 13:18:27 jott: so if your hardware has no drivers, Android will be just as useless as an 3D renderer as N800 currently is Nov 14 13:18:30 attack of the show on g4tv Nov 14 13:19:02 jott: yes but no driver for powervr Nov 14 13:19:46 I don't have anything about maemo platform but I think android can be cool on nokia tablets... Nov 14 13:19:55 zuh: indeed, major snafu designing a platform with these powervr jokers on board Nov 14 13:20:11 yes, drivers are the major problem...and there are drivers for powervr but none are public and all are closed source.. Nov 14 13:20:31 dpb_, pretty sure 6 figures to develop for android would make anyone happy Nov 14 13:20:46 was it 6 or 5 Nov 14 13:20:50 still alot Nov 14 13:20:55 upto 300K i heard Nov 14 13:21:14 the 10 million is not going to help you write xterm with root prompt Nov 14 13:21:31 since you are sandboxed in dalvik vm Nov 14 13:22:05 btw.. what's the actual reason for nokia in not really trying to get drivers from imagination tech for the n8xx?! Nov 14 13:22:19 money Nov 14 13:22:47 jott: nokia hasn't made any statements about that Nov 14 13:22:48 politics, money, crap company (imagination) - take your pick Nov 14 13:23:04 they said they are trying to get the drivers Nov 14 13:23:16 intel won't have such problems Nov 14 13:23:20 wumpus: where? Nov 14 13:23:44 "trying"? this is Nokia not some mickey mouse outfit... Nov 14 13:23:46 I remember some nokia guy saying it in this channel, some time ago Nov 14 13:23:51 What is it with this android thing? Nov 14 13:23:55 but they had problems Nov 14 13:23:56 Why is it so great? Nov 14 13:24:05 * alterego dispairs. Nov 14 13:24:06 its not, its google Nov 14 13:24:32 Who'd actually choose to program in Java .. Nov 14 13:24:39 Some people I just don't get .. :) Nov 14 13:24:44 non-technical reasons, so yeah must be some politics or they ask exorbitant prices Nov 14 13:25:17 hola Nov 14 13:25:19 If Nokia wanted PowerVR drivers they'd have them by now - easy answer is to tell TI to get stuffed we're not buying your chips any more unless PowerVR get a clue Nov 14 13:25:48 Android is just a repack of java with some library ... Nothing more Nov 14 13:26:00 not really java Nov 14 13:26:09 Sure looked like Java to me. Nov 14 13:26:15 not a java vm Nov 14 13:26:25 C# looks a lot like Java Nov 14 13:26:29 Sure, everyone knows that. Nov 14 13:26:46 not a java vm of course it s googlevm Nov 14 13:26:48 milhouse, it is Java. Just because it's not the standard VM doesn't mean it's not Java. Nov 14 13:27:02 Comparing that difference to Java and C# is stupid. Nov 14 13:27:03 Just a name change Nov 14 13:27:05 <_berto_> there are millions of java programmers out there, it's not strange that people want to make programs Nov 14 13:27:30 _berto_, agreed. But who'd want to write in Java? Nov 14 13:27:51 all those million java programmers out there?! Nov 14 13:27:54 Millions people forced o Nov 14 13:27:59 Python, Ruby .. They're so much more powerfull. Nov 14 13:28:06 To write java ? Nov 14 13:28:16 <_berto_> I'm not saying which one is better or worse Nov 14 13:28:26 <_berto_> I'd just said that there are millions of java programmers Nov 14 13:28:40 Java is actually a good language to code in. The problem is the VM sometimes is not that good Nov 14 13:28:45 <_berto_> and most of them haven't touched a line of gtk or python in their lives Nov 14 13:28:59 <_berto_> those are the ones who would like to program in java, I guess Nov 14 13:29:04 I guess Java in Android will run much better than Python/ruby in maemo Nov 14 13:29:17 Not really. Nov 14 13:29:21 Well, yes. Nov 14 13:29:26 But that doesn't matter. Nov 14 13:29:31 "not really java" <--- ok it's the java language, but not a java system Nov 14 13:29:38 And what's "better"? Nov 14 13:29:48 milhouse, java system? Nov 14 13:29:53 <_berto_> it doesn't matter, you asked who would want to write in java Nov 14 13:29:55 <_berto_> I answered Nov 14 13:30:07 milhouse, we know it's not Suns' VM why don't you just drop it. It's Java :P Nov 14 13:30:07 java system -> java bytecode Nov 14 13:30:17 milhouse: the Java class library's a pretty strong incentive. As is the fact that any language which compiles to bytecode (JRuby, Groovy, Jython) can also be used and then compiled to their custom bytecode. Nov 14 13:30:46 Jaffa, that's something I'm quite interested in ;) Though I think I prefer xruby. Nov 14 13:31:34 jaffa - sure, just thought I'd make the point it's not a fully fledged java "system" as most people might understand it... Nov 14 13:31:37 "Java will run better in android than python in maemo" ... Your re kidding ? Nov 14 13:31:46 O_o Nov 14 13:31:46 milhouse: indeed. Nov 14 13:31:59 Khertan: I'd put money on it. A lot of money on it. Nov 14 13:32:06 Python on Maemo takes too long to start up, for one. Nov 14 13:32:17 What's "better"? Nov 14 13:32:21 it's not java bytecode in android Nov 14 13:32:22 Startup and after ... Nov 14 13:32:54 Have you try a jvm on an arm ? It s really slow Nov 14 13:32:58 I guess they can't take advantage of ARM Java acceleration .. Nov 14 13:33:10 Specially in gui Nov 14 13:33:25 no use arguing about it before they bring devices Nov 14 13:33:28 I think that's based more on opinion. Nov 14 13:33:30 "better" as in "apparently better from the user's perspective" as in more responsive and faster Nov 14 13:33:30 can't know how fast they are Nov 14 13:33:34 altergo: more NDA crapness regarding Jazelle, this time from ARM... :( Nov 14 13:34:03 Khertan: a) it isn't interpreting Java bytecode; b) given their system is based around Java, they'd be nuts to have it as slow as Python on Maemo. If every app on Maemo was written in Python, the interpreter load time problem would be fixed fairly quickly. Nov 14 13:34:07 so all of you guys are ready to give up r00t for a java-incompatible java-like vm ? Nov 14 13:34:30 Are you sure it's the interpreter load time? Nov 14 13:34:35 android so far seems just like savaje on crack Nov 14 13:34:44 * Jaffa will use whatever device allows him the most flexibility, whilst providing the features I want, in a rich and powerfuld evelopment environment. Nov 14 13:34:45 = boring Nov 14 13:34:47 suihkulokki, not me. I don't like that idea at all. Nov 14 13:35:03 I'm with Jaffa Nov 14 13:35:09 what matters is what kind of devices it will come out on and whats allowed on those devices.. Nov 14 13:35:12 gla55_: a good point, but Google's ploughing money into it, so it's worth watching. Nov 14 13:35:28 gla55_: exactly. Nov 14 13:35:32 jaffa: yeah worth watching like the other linux for mobile phones alliances Nov 14 13:35:32 I'm more interested in making Maemo the best :) Nov 14 13:35:37 Also... write once run anywhere... Nov 14 13:35:46 ARM... x86... Nov 14 13:35:52 jaffa: and it's fast enough to switch deving for it if they get enough marketshare that they matter Nov 14 13:35:58 gla55_: worth watching slightly more because of Google, but not much more - I grant you. Nov 14 13:36:08 gla55_: agreed. Nov 14 13:36:09 indeed, and I bet Google can put some millions here and there to make an efficient Java VM, but I agree, only when the devices are out we will see Nov 14 13:36:11 I doubt they'll be short of devs .. Nov 14 13:36:11 lua would make more sense than python anyway. It's meant for small devices more than python. Nov 14 13:36:35 They've done some impressive stuff already. Why don't we see if we can make Maemo more competitive. Nov 14 13:37:15 Out of all the Linux for mobile initiatives, I reckon Google's got the best chance, since they like tooling and they've got the brand and wallets. Maemo/UME are fine for tablet-style devices; I'll be surprised if OpenMoko's anything more than a niche running on just their phones Nov 14 13:37:20 And we have great hardware now .. Nov 14 13:37:22 well, if they're really as open as they say, port the androids vm thing to maemo.. that runs their fancy bytecode Nov 14 13:38:11 Not just the VM though is it .. It's all the services and API's too. Nov 14 13:38:14 alterego - do we?! still the same cruddy N800 video hardware in the N810... Nov 14 13:38:19 dodgey touchscreen... Nov 14 13:38:21 * Jaffa 's commitment to Maemo lasts as long as the device does what he wants, can be customised to do what he wants, and gets bribed with cheap devices. Nov 14 13:38:26 naff all 3d support Nov 14 13:38:41 All of which I can live without happily .. Nov 14 13:38:48 cheap shot Nov 14 13:38:53 The tablets will be great. Nov 14 13:38:59 the touchscreen is beginning to annoy me Nov 14 13:39:07 We're still only in the second generation .. Nov 14 13:39:16 I thought we're at step 3 now? Nov 14 13:39:18 Still in the research and development phase really. Nov 14 13:39:23 true, but it's tough to call the hardware "great" Nov 14 13:39:25 also the fact that so many big industry players are behind Andriod makes me think it won't be crappy Nov 14 13:39:28 Jaffa, N800 and N810 are so similar .. Nov 14 13:39:29 http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html Nov 14 13:39:31 "good" yes, but not great - it needs to improve Nov 14 13:39:42 I think it's great. Nov 14 13:39:50 But it's a matter of opinion. Nov 14 13:39:52 alterego: I'm quoting a Nokia exec, there. Nov 14 13:39:55 it still needs 3d drivers ;) Nov 14 13:40:12 Why does it _need_ it? Nov 14 13:40:27 to make use of it?! Nov 14 13:40:34 And why doesn't someone dev some OSS drivers :P Nov 14 13:40:37 I think the hardware's pretty fab. But the Eee is now undercutting the tablet and is more functional; the iPhone's raised the software game. OS2008 and the N810 look good, and I'm sure *I*'ll enjoy them; but larger market => more devs => more apps => more useful. Nov 14 13:40:59 alterego: oss drivers would be even better, thats for sure ;) Nov 14 13:41:01 alterego: If we haven't yet got 3D OSS drivers for NVIDIA cards, why on earth would we have them for some niche little TI chip? Nov 14 13:41:21 Not many Linux hackers working on OMAP, compared with nouveau Nov 14 13:41:22 Jaffa: well that's a matter of specs.. :/ Nov 14 13:41:23 There are OSS nVidia drivers .. Nov 14 13:41:24 i don't really care if it would be oss drivers or not Nov 14 13:41:29 just that nokia would make it happen Nov 14 13:41:34 powervr? Nov 14 13:41:52 alterego: They just do 2D on a limited subset of cards. There's very little 3D support beyond *sometimes* running glgears Nov 14 13:42:04 :) Nov 14 13:42:23 If I knew how to develop PowerVR drivers for the OMAP I would. Nov 14 13:42:28 Jaffa: at least people are working on them Nov 14 13:42:30 It seems that pepperpad had drivers for linux 2.6 for the powervr chip. So it shouldn't be terribly hard to get them? Nov 14 13:42:31 But I don't so I'm not going to :) Nov 14 13:42:51 wumpus: indeed. Nov 14 13:42:57 X-Fade, the drivers are free but they don't work with Maemo binaries. Nov 14 13:43:03 It's binary incompatible .. Nov 14 13:43:04 have you tried? Nov 14 13:43:16 alterego: Sure, but they are not a big company :) Nov 14 13:43:19 Anyhow, I need a shower. Nov 14 13:43:26 X-Fade: it's not for the right architecture afaik Nov 14 13:43:26 is it possible to use kernel drivers from a different version kernel? Nov 14 13:43:31 It's going to be easier to decompile them, and reassemble them than it is to write OSS drivers from scratch. Nov 14 13:43:32 ah, ok Nov 14 13:43:50 Jaffa, yeah. That thought crossed my mind several times .. Nov 14 13:44:12 http://updates.pepper.com/pub/pepperpad/sources/pepperpad2/3.0.3/pvrdrv.ko.tar Nov 14 13:44:22 vermagic: 2.6.13.4 preempt ARMv5 gcc-3.4 Nov 14 13:44:32 well if it's only for one graphics chip, writing drivers isn't that teriibly hard, the hard part of nouveau and other open source drivers is having to supports zillions of cards Nov 14 13:45:18 wumpus: that's true Nov 14 13:45:26 and the drivers would only need to support the opengl es subset ;) Nov 14 13:45:29 My guess is that the powervr is seriously underpowerd for our screensize. And maybe has the same bus issues as movies have? Nov 14 13:45:43 but you'd still need to know what commands to send to the chip.. or even where to send the commands at all Nov 14 13:45:55 yes, it has the same bus issues Nov 14 13:46:08 it'd only speed up rendering to a memory buffer, not sending it through the slow pipe to the LCD Nov 14 13:46:10 And is designed for 320x240 orso :) Nov 14 13:46:19 I've not looked at the architecture diagram recently, but the problem with the video bandwidth is getting frames from the CPU to the LCD controller. That problem would exist whether the ARM core's doing it or the PowerVR bit of the chip Nov 14 13:46:32 ...i.e. what wumpus said Nov 14 13:46:32 indeed Jaffa Nov 14 13:46:46 Still, 320x240 fastly rendered 3D would be better than none ;-) Nov 14 13:46:56 Jaffa: Sure ;) Nov 14 13:47:09 if it's faster than software rendering it'd already be great Nov 14 13:47:18 Having some nice clutter stuff on opengl es would be nice.. Nov 14 13:47:22 * timeless rotfl Nov 14 13:47:25 i'm in trouble Nov 14 13:47:35 i just corrupted my coworker's new phone Nov 14 13:47:40 it's an n81 8gb Nov 14 13:47:51 except, i managed to corrupt the 8gb part Nov 14 13:47:57 and you're laughing, because? Nov 14 13:48:01 so now he just has a very unuseful device Nov 14 13:48:16 well, the bad part is that i'm sharing a cabin with him tonight Nov 14 13:48:23 I'm writing a Ruby hildon app which creates and draws a lot of pixmaps from pixbufs. I'm finding that the X memory usage escalates quickly even though my objects are out of scope. Does anyone know how to free/destroy the pixmaps in the X server? Nov 14 13:48:38 https://focus-webapps.ti.com/general/docs/event/eventresultsaction.tsp?actionId=264 is another option for the kernel driver Nov 14 13:48:44 2.6.10 Nov 14 13:48:46 my coworker asks if the same people who developed the mmc support for the n800/n810 are responsible for the n81 8gb :) Nov 14 13:48:54 so at least he has a sense of humor :) Nov 14 13:49:09 oh, that's better, i also broke the reporting app Nov 14 13:49:41 having 3D OpenGL support on the Nx0, crappy video bandwidth or not, would be a good proving ground for the Step 4 device (N900?) that almost certainly wouldn't (fingers crossed) have crap video bandwidth. Nov 14 13:49:44 stay away from my N81 :D Nov 14 13:49:53 lardman: but does it include the powervr driver? Nov 14 13:49:57 yes Nov 14 13:50:01 lardman: yeah but thats omap2430 :/ Nov 14 13:50:16 true, the 2420 link says to grab the 2430 sdk... Nov 14 13:50:50 well if they wrote a generic driver it could be worth a try.. Nov 14 13:51:14 what does a fillrate of over 300 million pixels/s give in terms of resolution vs framerate Nov 14 13:51:16 I'm making a backup of my N800 to reflash for the first time Nov 14 13:51:19 * lardman looks for a calc Nov 14 13:51:33 I copied the home dir, did a backup with the internal backup program, and saved copied dpkg --get-selections Nov 14 13:51:34 http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=4 Nov 14 13:51:41 did I miss something? Nov 14 13:51:58 some time ago I tried various things to load that kernel module, but it stubbornly refused any try :) Nov 14 13:52:07 TPC, are you going with 08? Nov 14 13:52:11 unique311, yes Nov 14 13:52:40 wumpus: it's big too, ~1MB! Nov 14 13:52:47 there should be an option somewhere for linux to ignore the version info, but haven't found it Nov 14 13:53:05 yep, very big, that kind of makes reverse engineering out of the question too Nov 14 13:53:06 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11693&page=4 Nov 14 13:53:28 I was thinking of creating a gpe-image with the correct kernel version, etc. to see if it would work Nov 14 13:53:28 I hope everyone already flahed os2008 to their n800? :) Nov 14 13:53:58 Right, in terms of fillrate, the powervr mbx should manage ~975fps Nov 14 13:54:05 it's bigger than the nvidia driver for x86, it probably includes an entire opengl implementation... maybe this 'powervr' is a few instructions to speed up 3d, like 3dnow, and not a real hardware renderer Nov 14 13:54:45 it is real hw, http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp?Page=1 Nov 14 13:55:03 it's more than just instructions thats for sure Nov 14 13:55:07 but yes, most of the opengl stuff may be in that module Nov 14 13:55:10 you can see the hw in action in n95 and e90 Nov 14 13:55:22 isn't powervr based on rendering "tiles"? Nov 14 13:55:26 yeah Nov 14 13:55:29 some stuff like that Nov 14 13:56:18 I just don't see how a hardware accelerated opengl es driver tailored to a single chip should be that big Nov 14 13:56:27 hasn't the pepperpad got a different powervr chip type? Nov 14 13:56:46 isn't pepperpad geode based? Nov 14 13:56:57 alterego: are you around? Nov 14 13:57:07 the new one is, the old one was arm based I think Nov 14 13:57:10 it has powervr mbx lite rather than our mbx Nov 14 13:58:05 * lardman wonders how large the 2.4.x driver is from Ti? Nov 14 13:59:24 well if you strip the 1mb module its down to 63kb ;) Nov 14 13:59:47 ah-ha Nov 14 13:59:48 are you sure you can strip kernel modules safely? Nov 14 14:00:19 that'd be fun, because it means they include 900kb of debug symbols Nov 14 14:00:31 would make life easier at least Nov 14 14:00:34 makes the objdump -d output nice ;) Nov 14 14:00:41 indeed Nov 14 14:01:17 14988 lines of objdump asm code ;) Nov 14 14:01:47 is their opengl implementation also unstripped? Nov 14 14:01:51 but yeah someone should try loading the module first, even if you patch the version info using a hex editor :P Nov 14 14:01:56 * lardman is using WinXP atm so can't look Nov 14 14:02:32 mh i suppose the sdk might contain debug symbols - would make sense at least ;) Nov 14 14:02:38 probably get symbols errors though Nov 14 14:02:39 so you get the chip working, what next? Nov 14 14:02:44 the kernel interface usually is quite stable between releases Nov 14 14:03:02 opengl is the next step Nov 14 14:03:48 well if it at least recognizes the chip then you are sure the driver works, which would be a very nice start Nov 14 14:04:13 * jott still needs a real device :( Nov 14 14:04:37 * jott pokes nokia so they finally release the n810 Nov 14 14:05:01 although modern graphics drivers usually just map the device to user space, and let the opengl lib handle the rest Nov 14 14:06:13 but it's still funny to release a module with full debug symbols for an embedded device :) Nov 14 14:06:25 yeah Nov 14 14:06:43 well it is for the devel toolchain Nov 14 14:06:52 although the debug symbols are not loaded into memory Nov 14 14:06:52 ah ok.. Nov 14 14:07:28 hm.. now I'm running 2008 Nov 14 14:07:36 the UI certainly feels alot faster Nov 14 14:07:44 hmm, the omap2430 also has the mbx lite Nov 14 14:07:53 there are fewer steps for the backlight Nov 14 14:08:44 feels link a new device don't it? Nov 14 14:09:12 check out the youtube TPC Nov 14 14:09:57 mbx lite loses fsaa Nov 14 14:10:18 they're probably at least compatible Nov 14 14:10:33 afternoon all, bit of a contentious question here - what is the better pim suite for the n800 pimlico or gpe? Nov 14 14:10:36 or share parts of the command set Nov 14 14:10:36 this TI OMAP sdks are insane.. .zip -> .exe (wtf?! wine to the rescue) -> .zip -> phew! Nov 14 14:11:03 ideally i would like to have the tablet as the canonical repository and both phone and laptop sync to it Nov 14 14:11:05 try the 2.4.x version (I think) ~55Mb self-extracting shell script :) Nov 14 14:11:30 hehe Nov 14 14:11:47 how legal is reverse engineering? Nov 14 14:11:52 but why the hell one packages an exe with zip and this exe is just an installer that has another zip in it!? Nov 14 14:11:58 depends on where you live Nov 14 14:12:13 lardman: here it is legal to ensure interoperability (ianal) Nov 14 14:12:24 I don't think it's a good idea to talk about it in public Nov 14 14:12:33 Just wondering in general terms Nov 14 14:13:03 intercepting rendering commands to the hardware is legal though, so that's usually how os drivers are developed, not by disassembly Nov 14 14:13:11 lardman: Just do a clean reimplementation.. reverse engineer and write a description. Someone else needs to write a driver based on the description. Nov 14 14:13:15 but in the end its a matter of jurisdiction.. Nov 14 14:13:37 X-Fade: Is that legal though? For the person who does the reverse engineering? Nov 14 14:13:39 Well, 'just' ;) Nov 14 14:13:54 lardman: As long as that is legal in your country.. Nov 14 14:14:03 wumpus: yes, intercepting the commands would be reasonable Nov 14 14:14:15 lol, round in circles Nov 14 14:14:32 lardman: Everone not in the US, should be a lot more safe.. Nov 14 14:14:45 anyway, if you do use disassembly, don't tell anyone Nov 14 14:15:13 wumpus: in which case I wonder if the kernel driver could be wrapped and the wrapper used to link in, no problems with kernel version then Nov 14 14:15:14 But if they wrote an opensource driver, that is a lot easier ;) Nov 14 14:15:22 they won't Nov 14 14:15:48 lardman: yes, probably, but then we'll have to find out to wrap which symbols Nov 14 14:15:55 ok, after a couple of reboots it no longer things the 8gb is corrupt ... Nov 14 14:16:09 wumpus: intercepting the commands will be as bad though Nov 14 14:16:29 well before we can intercept commands we need to have a working driver Nov 14 14:16:38 so it's really not the way in this case Nov 14 14:16:54 wrapping is indeed the best Nov 14 14:17:16 and if we had a working driver many people would be more or less satisfied ;) Nov 14 14:17:22 the most trivial brute force way to find out is overriding the version info in the 2.6.10 release, then see where loading goes wrong Nov 14 14:18:13 unless the abi and not the name of some kernel call changed and it just crashes, but yeah Nov 14 14:18:56 you'd have to dump which kernel symbols it uses and which ones changed between that kernel and the current Nov 14 14:19:08 luckily, the kernel IS open source :P Nov 14 14:19:35 another problem coudl be the binary format -- is it compiled for the same ARM ? Nov 14 14:19:46 no idea Nov 14 14:19:49 I suppose so if it's omap Nov 14 14:20:23 jott: you got the file in front of you? Nov 14 14:20:34 wumpus: arm vs armel you mean? Nov 14 14:21:05 jott: yes, if we can at least demonstrate it working then we can start thinking about making open drivers Nov 14 14:21:20 but personally I'd be satisfied with 'working' too Nov 14 14:21:23 lardman: yes Nov 14 14:22:28 mh the sdk even contains a libX11.so .. is this a patched version? Nov 14 14:23:34 Spakman, I'm back. Nov 14 14:23:40 jott: I thought not (no reason though) as I think it's just so you can install the whole lot on your dev board and get working straight away Nov 14 14:23:50 I don't think libX11 is patched Nov 14 14:23:59 it's not something you usually change for a graphics driver Nov 14 14:24:22 and this one doesn't even talk to a graphics card Nov 14 14:24:26 *arg* Nov 14 14:24:29 stupid Nov 14 14:24:34 podcasting was downloading to internal memory Nov 14 14:24:40 yeah you are probably right.. but who knows what ti does :) Nov 14 14:24:43 I can't see any handy ascii strings with 2.6.10 in them Nov 14 14:25:52 stupid things taking up space Nov 14 14:25:58 heh, maybe it'd be possible to change the insmod source to just not check :) Nov 14 14:26:05 true Nov 14 14:26:07 I might have to get myself a 16GB SDHC card Nov 14 14:26:49 does that work in the device at all TPC ? Nov 14 14:27:01 * timeless rotfl Nov 14 14:27:01 wumpus, from what I've heard yes Nov 14 14:27:06 "Download limit exceeded" Nov 14 14:27:08 It's not TI. It's imgtec Nov 14 14:27:14 jott: can you see what version of libc they link against? Nov 14 14:27:21 TPC, that wont work in the tablet. Nov 14 14:27:50 lardman: at least libc version is no problem with the kernel module, might be for the GL lib though Nov 14 14:27:59 YEAH Nov 14 14:28:09 IT OS 2008 on N800 Nov 14 14:28:21 *sigh* :) Nov 14 14:28:52 wumpus: did you use insmod -f and it still failed? Nov 14 14:29:20 lardman: You'd need the regular insmod first. This one is busybox. Nov 14 14:29:36 ah, good point Nov 14 14:29:55 I've tried it with the pepperpad one, a long time ago.. Nov 14 14:30:14 * alterego wonders how hard it is to port 2.4 modules to 2.6 Nov 14 14:30:21 [15:27:21] TPC, that wont work in the tablet. Nov 14 14:30:30 did you just read that in the specs, or have you actually tried it? Nov 14 14:30:31 TPC, 16G carc Nov 14 14:30:36 lardman: yes, I tried, didn't work Nov 14 14:30:42 I read somewhere someone who said that it works, altoguht nokia doesn't support it Nov 14 14:30:43 X-Fade: that might be the reason Nov 14 14:30:58 wumpus: Yeah, it doesn't allow forcing.. Nov 14 14:31:16 TPC, well. You're welcome to risk losing whatever information you store on there and the card. If you want .. Nov 14 14:31:24 that means the symbols don't match then Nov 14 14:31:39 if the symbols don't match it should give a nice list Nov 14 14:31:41 it didn't Nov 14 14:31:47 it just failed.. so it's the busybox thing Nov 14 14:31:52 alterego, I keep backups of everything Nov 14 14:31:58 ah, well that's good news, perhaps Nov 14 14:31:59 alterego: Probably just a driver issue. No real hardware reason why it shouldn't work. Nov 14 14:32:06 TPC, what about the cash you waste when it busts the card? Nov 14 14:32:15 why wouldn't a 16G card work in the tablet? Do they just keep bumping some hard limit every time a bigger card comes out? Nov 14 14:32:18 why would it do that? Nov 14 14:32:33 TPC, why wouldn't it? Nov 14 14:32:36 You don't know :P Nov 14 14:32:40 Is it worth the risk? Nov 14 14:32:44 Tak: maybe a slightly different protocol, for every doubling of the capacity they need to hide an addressing bit somewhere: P Nov 14 14:32:53 alterego: Sure, that is what warranty is for.. Nov 14 14:33:08 Not really .. Nov 14 14:33:20 It's not a dud. You'd be sending back something you broke. Nov 14 14:33:21 yeah if it doesn't work you can send it back I guess Nov 14 14:33:24 Not work != Should kill.. Nov 14 14:33:26 That's not worthy of a replacement Nov 14 14:33:30 you won't *break* it Nov 14 14:33:35 it'll just work or not work Nov 14 14:33:53 if it doesn't work it will still perfectly work in some device that does support them Nov 14 14:34:04 lol Nov 14 14:34:18 Skype dont wants to be installed on OS 2008# Nov 14 14:34:29 Ar-ras, skype for 2008 isn't out yet Nov 14 14:34:33 I thought the SDHC spec supported up to 16G without hackery; it was just a matter of cramming the storage into the space? Nov 14 14:34:38 :) I see ;) Nov 14 14:34:43 Ar-ras: You didn't read the message.. Nov 14 14:34:57 I read the message ;) Nov 14 14:35:30 Tak: 32GB is the limit for SDHC Nov 14 14:35:34 it is just stupid, to put Skype into "startmenu", if it isnt already installed :O Nov 14 14:35:35 then again, I don't have a clue how SDHC is implemented, if it allows for 16GB it's worth a try I'd say Nov 14 14:36:37 TPC, the older skype does not run on os2008 ? Nov 14 14:36:47 so...I'd think any driver implementation should support 32G without having to rehack it all the damn time Nov 14 14:36:57 Yah Nov 14 14:37:05 KevinVerma: 2008 is incompatible with 2007. Nov 14 14:37:15 KevinVerma, 2007 software is not binary conmpatible with 2008 Nov 14 14:37:20 Tak: yes, supporting the spec would be the smart thing to do Nov 14 14:37:22 tak: nokia doesn't live by that logic on symbian Nov 14 14:37:25 * alterego looks at driver source. Nov 14 14:37:44 Tak: it could still be a crappy interface chip Nov 14 14:38:15 gla55_ Fortunately Nokia didn't write the SDHC support in Linux (though they may have meddled with it...) Nov 14 14:38:31 nice then Nov 14 14:38:40 notice when i run mpalyer in fullscreen mode, and minimize it the the screen looks like its running at a different resolution. Nov 14 14:38:50 unique311: pixel doubling Nov 14 14:38:54 k Nov 14 14:39:03 so its running at the same res Nov 14 14:39:07 the imgtec drivers hack X11 Nov 14 14:39:16 Specifically X11 DRM .. Nov 14 14:39:41 its a hack? Nov 14 14:39:47 they don't just use a loadable X11 module? Nov 14 14:40:00 Doesn't look like it. Nov 14 14:40:09 WTT nokia 770 for 800/810 :( Nov 14 14:40:11 Looks like they've copied and modified some X11 code .. Nov 14 14:40:11 * Tak remains annoyed Nov 14 14:40:11 what is the hack? Nov 14 14:40:22 Looking now. Nov 14 14:40:30 X-Fade, alterego good to know in time, thanks Nov 14 14:40:38 anyone fancy compiling module-init-tools? Nov 14 14:40:50 skype is critical for me, i'll have to wait to update Nov 14 14:40:58 gizmo Nov 14 14:41:02 does the same thing Nov 14 14:41:11 but my peers are not able to use gizmo Nov 14 14:41:24 they got a belkin phone Nov 14 14:41:36 bbiab Nov 14 14:41:41 i'll love to know if gizmo folks want to hack it Nov 14 14:41:49 it runs linux Nov 14 14:43:12 wumpus, was wondering if that pixel doubling could be used by the guys at access Nov 14 14:43:18 for the garnet vm Nov 14 14:43:18 There are loads of changes they made. Nov 14 14:43:24 Don't really know what any of it does though :) Nov 14 14:44:52 why wouldn't it work with 32GB? Nov 14 14:45:03 even if it didn't now, it would just be a firmware update. Nov 14 14:45:21 You think .. Nov 14 14:45:33 unique311: sure, it's just something that you can enable Nov 14 14:46:10 k Nov 14 14:47:02 remember the devs telling me that the screen res for the emulator was hardcoded in the roms. Can't really do anything to the emulator to get the screen size bigger. Nov 14 14:48:58 yeah you'd need some form of scaling at least Nov 14 14:49:43 leave them a note on the feedback page. Nov 14 14:50:22 Interesting intel release source code for their graphics drivers and they have a chipset based on the power vr mbx .. Nov 14 14:51:11 still waiting for the docs to their wifi stuff Nov 14 14:52:22 It'd be nice if Nokia actually told us what is going on with the graphics drivers. Nov 14 14:52:28 All we've had is "no comment" .. Nov 14 14:53:36 yeah, it's usually useless to try to get *any* info out of a company at all Nov 14 14:53:59 I just don't see why they can't tell us. It's silly :/ Nov 14 14:54:29 If we're going to have them .. Tell us and we'll stop complaining. If we're not going to have them, tell us and we'll stop complaining. Nov 14 14:54:34 It's pretty simple .. Nov 14 14:54:51 Maybe it would be a good thing to mention again on -developers? Nov 14 14:55:02 they like to surprise us Nov 14 14:55:26 "BOO!" Nov 14 14:55:32 I'd like to here that soon ;) Nov 14 14:55:38 but if they say it's not going to be there it might put off people from their product, if they say they are going to have it then we made a promise and we'll compain even more 'when is it done when is it done?' :) Nov 14 14:56:02 That's rubbish. Nov 14 14:56:04 When is it done? Nov 14 14:56:33 It not having 3D doesn't effect peoples purchasing choice now. Why would it in the future if nothing changes? Nov 14 14:56:37 I think it's their reasoning, it's usually what companies do before deciding to not say anything at all Nov 14 14:56:49 Neah, Nov 14 14:56:53 Nokia are just very quiet. Nov 14 14:57:00 Everything is kept from us :P Nov 14 14:57:05 only 3 programms for IT OS 2008?? Nov 14 14:57:44 It's not even out Ar-ras I'd say that's good :P Nov 14 14:57:52 lol Nov 14 14:58:23 Ar-ras: Better start porting things to Chinook. We're all waiting for you to do that.. ;) Nov 14 14:58:27 one good thing about OS2008 leaking it gives people a few weeks to fine tune their applications to the new platform :) Nov 14 14:59:19 i'm glad they postponed the release Nov 14 15:07:30 * lardman reads backlog Nov 14 15:08:05 Nokia have hinted that they have worked on the powervr though Nov 14 15:08:12 powervr? Nov 14 15:08:19 Whats that? Nov 14 15:08:30 _Monkey: what's the PowerVR MBX? Nov 14 15:08:30 <_Monkey> bugger all, i dunno, lardman Nov 14 15:08:33 lardman: they have? Nov 14 15:08:37 useless! Nov 14 15:08:43 Jaffa: yes Nov 14 15:09:12 it would take quite some digging to find the particular irc conversation though I think Nov 14 15:09:20 Oh nice, I _can_ detect when head phones are inserted. Nov 14 15:09:33 ~google powervr Nov 14 15:10:11 Ar-ras: http://www.imgtec.com/PowerVR/Products/Graphics/MBX/index.asp Nov 14 15:10:17 useless bots Nov 14 15:10:22 ;) Nov 14 15:10:35 yeah, monitor /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/state (N800) or /sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/headphone/connection_switch (770) Nov 14 15:10:50 alterego: did you say what the x11 hack was? Nov 14 15:11:27 lardman, no. There are numerous hacks. Nov 14 15:11:30 ahoy! i just upgraded my N800 to te newer OS 2007... and i can't remember where the hell i found a package i had before. any ideas? it's a game pack, one pkg for maybe 10-20 games, (graphically) very simple games, called something like "tom's game pack" Nov 14 15:11:45 rev, sgtpuzzles Nov 14 15:11:52 Probably not really essential. I'm sure if Nokia are working on drivers they'll have it all sorted :P Nov 14 15:12:09 alterego: ok Nov 14 15:12:21 inz: thanks! that was driving me nuts last night when i wanted to play some of that network/pipe game! :D Nov 14 15:12:46 rev, http://maemo-hackers.org/sgt-puzzles.install Nov 14 15:13:09 perhaps we should publicise http://www.imgtec.com/Downloads/DocumentDownloads/Demos/Index.asp and ask why we can't produce graphics like this :) Nov 14 15:13:31 Or play Quake 3 Nov 14 15:13:33 * alterego chuckles. Nov 14 15:13:45 inz: rad, i appreciate it! i don't think i have that rep added, i was cornfused as to why i couldn't find it in my avail pkg list, as i thought it was just in the maemo non-free or something. well, mystery solved! Nov 14 15:13:57 anyone tried OS2008 ? Nov 14 15:14:16 alterego: don't joke, shame we can't Nov 14 15:14:21 guardian: is it out yet? Nov 14 15:14:46 i just upgraded to the newer OS2007 last night, saw that OS2008 would be released, but it hadn't yet... ha! Nov 14 15:14:47 Quake 3 wouldn't run on the device PowerVR drivers or not. Nov 14 15:14:47 some friend's messenging me about a leak, but i did not really read the dev list this week :) Nov 14 15:15:01 alterego: why not? Nov 14 15:15:08 alterego: http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/11/11/q3ce_powervr/ Nov 14 15:15:11 lardman, CPU Nov 14 15:15:18 so, does OS2008 drop opera for mozilla? Nov 14 15:15:37 i'm sure this is all old news, but i'll just go a-readin instead of asking :P Nov 14 15:15:41 how quick is the axim then? 600mhz? Nov 14 15:15:45 You really think the little ARM in the tablet is powerfull enough for Q3? Nov 14 15:15:48 yeah, 624 mhz Nov 14 15:16:05 yeah, I reckon it is Nov 14 15:16:11 the nokia's are pretty underpowered compared to the axim Nov 14 15:16:14 with dsp for the sound Nov 14 15:16:21 for the apps i've used on both Nov 14 15:16:37 i don't know about the N810, if it's seen some huge boost in CPU MIPS/MHz Nov 14 15:16:50 would be pretty cool though :) Nov 14 15:16:57 rev - different ARM revisions aren't they? The Axim uses the (quite old) Intel/Marvel StrongARM which is a generation before the OMAP2420 Nov 14 15:17:04 yea then get ut3 to work :p Nov 14 15:17:16 but there is no 3d accel on the tablets Nov 14 15:17:20 rev - so comparing CPUs on speed alone isn't possible Nov 14 15:17:22 milhouse: they are different revisions, but the Axim's CPU beats out the 770 and N800's quite a bit Nov 14 15:17:24 SA, sure it's not an XScale? Nov 14 15:17:34 milhouse: in my case, i'm comparing performance on a specific app Nov 14 15:17:45 lardman: one of the two :) Nov 14 15:17:53 milhouse: old anyway :) Nov 14 15:18:05 positively prehistoric! Nov 14 15:18:07 milhouse: i can't remember the numbers, but it is a 2-4x difference in CPU crunchage and a similar amount in 2D gfx (mind you, not what is to be used) Nov 14 15:18:19 it's an XScale, can't remember the # Nov 14 15:18:24 255 Nov 14 15:19:12 i think the XScale/SA processors have SSE extensions which might help certain applications, whereas the OMAP cpus have power optimisations and can execute general instructions more efficiently than the Intel processors... swings and roundabouts probably Nov 14 15:19:27 is insmod stand-alone? Or do I need to install all of the new module-init-tools? Nov 14 15:19:43 milhouse: the omaps also have the sse instructions Nov 14 15:19:58 they are just an arm11 chip afterall Nov 14 15:20:04 lardman: thanks, didn't know that Nov 14 15:20:12 i don't see how the N800 could be faster on a per-MHz basis than a P3, though Nov 14 15:20:24 as the N800 is lacking an FPU Nov 14 15:20:25 there are also some new instructions, called dsp instructions, do parallel bits and bobs Nov 14 15:20:30 I've got a 400Mhz P3 in an IBM laptop Nov 14 15:20:32 n800 has an fpu Nov 14 15:20:38 and a P3 at 320 MHz didn't play Q3 so well Nov 14 15:20:42 it does? Nov 14 15:20:44 yes Nov 14 15:20:44 a dsp or an FPU? Nov 14 15:20:46 vfp Nov 14 15:20:52 both Nov 14 15:21:00 are there rumors about a 3d driver for the N800? Nov 14 15:21:02 dsp is fixed point Nov 14 15:21:04 or nothing at all ? Nov 14 15:21:08 vfp = virtual? software fp? Nov 14 15:21:14 vector floating point Nov 14 15:21:15 the N800 has an fpu, of sorts doesn't it? i'm sure it supports hardware floating point Nov 14 15:21:18 * rev nods Nov 14 15:21:29 unlike the 770 Nov 14 15:21:33 yes Nov 14 15:22:12 guardian: I wasn't here when the conversation started, I think it was just from a moan along the lines of "still no powervr support" Nov 14 15:22:26 400Mhz CISC vs 400Mhz RISC, a tricky (if impossible) comparison :) Nov 14 15:23:04 lardman: thx Nov 14 15:23:16 milhouse: for sure, but in the case of the N800 I know that, overall, any of these ARMs do a lot less on a per mhz basis, just doing some simple head math Nov 14 15:24:20 even if it shouldn't work, as the N800 is 2/3 the speed of the axim and could offload music playing to the dsp, it would be worth a shot Nov 14 15:24:21 but then again, if Q3ce can do 25 FPS on an axim, which is pretty impressive, perhaps a similar feat could occur on the N800, though without the 3d accel the axim has i'm not sure what kind of FPS you'd get Nov 14 15:26:17 guardian: when you say 3d drivers do you mean for some unutilized hardware the N800 has? Nov 14 15:26:38 yes Nov 14 15:26:45 rev: that's what we're talking about, the powervr mbx Nov 14 15:27:16 in fact i never search enough for the reason why there is a 3d chip but no driver to use it Nov 14 15:27:43 lardman: on the OMAP? hrmm... interesting! well, then i'd vote: yeah, it could do it! Nov 14 15:27:50 yep Nov 14 15:28:01 guardian: you see that a lot, lots of CE devices did the same thing before they started utilizing it Nov 14 15:28:06 IVA support would also be nice. Nov 14 15:28:21 rev: tradition is not a good reason :D Nov 14 15:28:22 yes, an added bonus Nov 14 15:28:24 http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/4/16/277 Check the mail addies.. Nov 14 15:28:38 X-Fade: shame there's very little public info about the IVA Nov 14 15:28:50 guardian: they'd use it as a selling point, but then find out that there wasn't even some simple drivers written by the manufacturer to speed up 2d perf, let alone provide a real 3d api Nov 14 15:28:51 daniels was talking about it the other day though Nov 14 15:28:58 guardian: oh, i agree :) Nov 14 15:29:02 lardman: Indeed. Can be a really powerful feature.. Nov 14 15:29:18 what would be power consumption? Nov 14 15:29:32 that I don't know, would need to test and see Nov 14 15:29:52 but presumably optimised hw accel would use less power than doing it for longer on the ARM Nov 14 15:31:01 what I'd like is an omap 2420 technical reference manual Nov 14 15:31:38 strange that the dsp has lots of info available, source code etc., but the IVA next to nothing. It's supposed to be similar Nov 14 15:32:10 lardman: Check recent omap kernels. There seems to be a lot more suport now. Nov 14 15:32:15 not to change the subject (I'm really enjoying this), but I need help connecting a bluetooth keyboard to my 770 Nov 14 15:32:25 * rev shakes fist Nov 14 15:32:35 * Tak waits for rev to roll dice Nov 14 15:32:39 X-Fade: yes I saw some bits, but one still needs a "dsp kernel" to run on it afaik Nov 14 15:32:46 will be IT OS 2008 hacked on N770? Nov 14 15:32:49 * rev sez "poof!" and shows that the dice have ... disappeared! Nov 14 15:33:08 * Tak head explodes Nov 14 15:33:20 Ar-ras: I think I remember reading somewhere that there would be a hackers edition too Nov 14 15:33:28 Ar-ras: yeah, they've been saying there will be Nov 14 15:33:37 ...specifically the new Apple keyboard Nov 14 15:33:52 Bwahaha, N800 firmware update time! Nov 14 15:34:05 sciboy: for 2008? Nov 14 15:34:19 the only worry I have with the "update" is battery charging, or are the two batteries the same mAh? Nov 14 15:34:28 May the gods of flashing internal memory shine their light upon me and deliver me from the evil of bricking Nov 14 15:34:33 rev, Yep. Nov 14 15:34:46 it's a shame that the N810 is still on 400 MHz and the CE machines topped out at 624 MHz (more recent ones 520 MHz)... intel was promising a 1 GHz StrongARM back in 1999 that i was oh-so excited to put into my newton 2100... pah! Nov 14 15:35:03 how long do their batteries last though? Nov 14 15:35:03 sciboy: legit, or like sharing between friends? Nov 14 15:35:10 30 secs? Nov 14 15:35:15 rev take a look at itt Nov 14 15:35:19 zoran: :) Nov 14 15:35:20 rev, Haven't you been to the forums? Nov 14 15:35:22 sciboy do you have linux pcß Nov 14 15:35:23 ah, taken from the N810? Nov 14 15:35:34 rev, And no it isn't legit. Nov 14 15:35:34 from the download site Nov 14 15:35:39 Ar-ras, Debian. Nov 14 15:36:15 sciboy: no, i'm pretty much disconnected other than asking the questions already answered in here. :) i just finally upgraded to the newer OS2007 to fix my mangled browser, i'll enjoy it for a few days Nov 14 15:36:18 rev: Well... an ARM11 core is something different then an ARM7 :-) Nov 14 15:36:37 The performance of the 400MHz Omap is really good. Nov 14 15:36:39 florian: i know, just a psychological thing Nov 14 15:36:56 rev: well... I can live with facts ;-) Nov 14 15:37:01 sciboy -> QRY Nov 14 15:39:28 WRT, the XScale vs OMAP debate, it seems like the 320MHz CPU in the N800 is much faster than the 416MHz XScale PXA270 Nov 14 15:39:55 yeah, i can see that Nov 14 15:40:01 I'm not sure but I thought I remember hearing that it had something to do with Intel just lengthening the pipeline to boost the clock speed Nov 14 15:40:32 also, my numbers were a little foofy, went and looked at them, and the 2-4x was for the 220 MHz 770 vs my 624 MHz Axim, not for the newer OMAP in the N800 Nov 14 15:40:42 there were some nbench figures on the openmoko list Nov 14 15:41:30 http://hbmobile.org/wiki/index.php?title=Application_Processor_Benchmarks Nov 14 15:41:53 I added the 770 and n800 (@330MHz) Nov 14 15:42:05 lardman, very cool Nov 14 15:42:10 vfp kicks ass, big time Nov 14 15:42:45 awesome Nov 14 15:43:09 does it require linking to some lib and use of its api to use it? Nov 14 15:43:13 the n800 results are with a statically compiled libm using vfp, the normal one doesn't use it Nov 14 15:43:29 * sciboy whistles as he waits for the firmware to download, and checks the progress of his blender render. Nov 14 15:43:34 not to say that you wouldn't do that for porting q3, but just curious if it uses it by default in the base math libs Nov 14 15:43:52 rev: e.g. http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/15646?page=last Nov 14 15:44:20 maemo isn't compiled with it enabled though, hence needing to statically link against a vfp libm Nov 14 15:45:11 rev: so you need CFLAGS=CXXFLAG=-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp Nov 14 15:45:19 What's this about people pinching MAC's for N810 preview devices and downloading OS2008? Nov 14 15:45:22 s/CXXFLAG/CXXFLAGS Nov 14 15:46:23 lardman: ah ok, definately not a hassle then Nov 14 15:46:53 * rev wonders if squeak would benefit from such a treatment, probably not Nov 14 15:47:10 no, not a problem at all, just be careful with the other possible flag (-mcpu=arm1136j-s) as qemu can't run this code Nov 14 15:47:53 alterego, Forums know all Nov 14 15:48:08 :/ Nov 14 15:48:08 Speaking of which my firmware download just finished! Nov 14 15:48:17 2008? Nov 14 15:48:18 <_Monkey> 2008 is the year of the open handheld/phone Nov 14 15:48:22 Yes Nov 14 15:48:32 yes :) Nov 14 15:48:38 Do you have an N810? Nov 14 15:48:42 Nope Nov 14 15:48:50 Is it out? Nov 14 15:48:54 also, if you're going to compile with vfp stuff, be kind to 2007HE users and compile a version without as well ;-) Nov 14 15:48:55 Nope Nov 14 15:49:00 what do you expect from 2008? Nov 14 15:49:12 O_o Nov 14 15:49:13 A slight speed boost and the ability to use the browser. Nov 14 15:49:21 So you're being a naughty boy .. Nov 14 15:49:25 Yep Nov 14 15:49:33 Tak: good point Nov 14 15:49:50 Well, I wont ask where you got the MAC from :P Nov 14 15:50:00 Who said I needed a MAC? Nov 14 15:50:09 You don't? Nov 14 15:50:13 And most people got it from a photo on engadget of the n810 Nov 14 15:50:23 Hah Nov 14 15:50:51 I wonder if Nokia mind .. Nov 14 15:51:04 If they don't .. I'll have a hunt for it. Nov 14 15:51:04 We'll find out soon enough Nov 14 15:51:07 Hah Nov 14 15:51:19 When you activate the auto_brick christmas coal? Nov 14 15:51:24 It's in the ITT forums, under the OS2008 area Nov 14 15:51:25 (pun on easter egg) Nov 14 15:51:33 There's two threads, one has a rather obvious title Nov 14 15:51:39 I think I'll wait for the official release. Nov 14 15:51:47 May the gods of flashing internal memory shine their light upon me and deliver me from the evil of bricking Nov 14 15:52:11 The kernel looks like it's built for both devices. Nov 14 15:52:13 browser issue means something special? Nov 14 15:52:24 So everything should work. Nov 14 15:52:48 hmmm... are nokia having a laugh with the first image in the Images app? :) Nov 14 15:52:53 (on OS2008) Nov 14 15:53:00 alterego, There's a few device specific issues. Nov 14 15:53:07 milhouse, what picture is it? Nov 14 15:53:08 alterego, Locking being the most prominent one. Nov 14 15:53:21 Locking? Nov 14 15:53:27 alterego, You can lock, but without the keyboard you can't unlock the device. Nov 14 15:53:33 Locking the screen etc. Nov 14 15:53:37 Ah Nov 14 15:53:41 buttons? Nov 14 15:53:45 I kind of _need_ that .. Nov 14 15:53:52 yes you can Nov 14 15:54:14 I'm just going by the reports out already. Nov 14 15:54:29 not that I've installed it of course, but someone I know just showed me Nov 14 15:54:52 lardman: Oh, sure ;) Nov 14 15:55:01 Hah Nov 14 15:55:23 all my buttons just stopped working in OS2008 - had to reboot from a ssh session. odd. Nov 14 15:55:38 O:-) Nov 14 15:55:42 lardman: You can always say that your developer device code, warrants the use of 2008 ;) Nov 14 15:55:59 teprrr: it's a dirty great big apple :) Nov 14 15:56:18 X-Fade: something like that :) Nov 14 15:56:26 Heh Nov 14 15:56:42 let's be realistic, if there was a problem they'd have pulled the download I imagine Nov 14 15:56:42 Finished flashing! Nov 14 15:56:45 I still think I'll wait./ Nov 14 15:57:21 Though I have got the N810 dmesg output from thoughtfix. Nov 14 15:57:24 Oh wow this is sexy. Nov 14 15:57:28 As I said. OS2008 is great, but without apps... Nov 14 15:57:34 He seems really broken down about the whole affair. Nov 14 15:57:39 alterego: me too, but not for a mac id, it was an interesting read Nov 14 15:57:53 I think we need to do a Chinook porting sprint.. Nov 14 15:57:59 Heh Nov 14 15:58:19 milhouse: i had that problem a lot with the last OS2007- buttons stopped working randomly all the time, usually when i had locked the screen (with power, enter), finding i couldn't unlock it because no button press was recognized Nov 14 15:59:00 so, anyone know if insmod can be replaced without needing to change anything else? Nov 14 15:59:03 milhouse: on an N800. think i was the only one with that problem as far as i an tell Nov 14 15:59:12 Woah, responsive Nov 14 15:59:23 rad! Nov 14 16:00:07 milhouse, doh :) Nov 14 16:00:08 is clutter used by the tablet ? Nov 14 16:00:13 OS2008 i mean Nov 14 16:00:14 Hmm .. I've never had that problem. Nov 14 16:00:19 rev: i thought i'd seen someone else mention it... hope it doesn't happen again, pretty serious problem if it does (then again it could be an issue with the N800 not liking this version of OS 2008!) Nov 14 16:00:25 guardian, clutter has nothing to do with maemo. Nov 14 16:00:31 i know it has nothing to do Nov 14 16:00:46 i wanted to know if some default app used it somehow Nov 14 16:01:02 It's not part of maemo. Nov 14 16:01:08 milhouse: yeah, i had to regularly pop my battery out to deal with it, bloody nuisance Nov 14 16:01:13 guardian: It can run on the device, but is not there at the moment. Nov 14 16:01:30 guardian: And software rendering isn't that fast ;) Nov 14 16:01:35 milhouse: but i'm not sure how it would be the N800 not liking 08, maybe it's just not been debugged on it? they did work from the get go, right? Nov 14 16:01:37 I want to know why the Chinook SDK doens't have Python 2.5? Nov 14 16:01:48 they're switching to smalltalk, i hear! Nov 14 16:02:21 Strange. Nov 14 16:02:22 <_Monkey> well, Strange. is my / filesystem full? Nov 14 16:02:29 Why does the example unpack the fiasco image? Nov 14 16:02:48 so as not to flash the bootloader which may be different Nov 14 16:02:50 Is there some kind of device ID check code or something? Nov 14 16:02:54 Ah Nov 14 16:03:00 Not maemo related really, but are there any channels/people related to the pimlico dates application somewhere? Nov 14 16:03:01 Makes sense. Nov 14 16:04:31 Now I'm curious about youtube video performance on 2008 Nov 14 16:05:14 Yes .. Me too. Nov 14 16:05:21 How does it run? Nov 14 16:05:59 Gimme a sec. Nov 14 16:06:15 I meant the whole OS. I don't really care much about youtube :) Nov 14 16:06:36 Woah Nov 14 16:06:50 goes out of device? Nov 14 16:06:51 It's playing something that 2007 chocked on completely smoothly. Nov 14 16:07:01 Nice. Nov 14 16:07:08 What about the nseries website? :) Nov 14 16:08:49 is there a memory card format that is better to have than another ? Nov 14 16:10:02 fs? Nov 14 16:10:03 <_Monkey> somebody said fs was the strenght of unix Nov 14 16:10:47 sciboy, if you say it's worth the upgrade I'll do it now ;) Nov 14 16:11:00 alterego, Depends on the apps you use. Nov 14 16:11:11 could you make a review? Nov 14 16:11:40 Not many really .. Nov 14 16:11:51 I guess I spend more time developing. Nov 14 16:12:18 I meant sciboy Nov 14 16:13:21 Looks nice, is a little snappier, that boost as far as surfing is concerned is definitely noticable. Nov 14 16:13:46 * sciboy loads up google mail Nov 14 16:14:17 could you install xterm and openssh and all necessary stuff? Nov 14 16:14:27 Just flashed my n800 with os2008 :) Nov 14 16:14:28 I doubt it zoran Nov 14 16:14:36 Fantastic! Nov 14 16:14:40 I'm surrounded by bad people! Nov 14 16:14:46 zoran, Looks like xterm is already included. Nov 14 16:14:52 fine Nov 14 16:14:54 No shit .. Really? Nov 14 16:14:58 ssh? Nov 14 16:14:59 Yes Nov 14 16:14:59 <_Monkey> ssh is a 'secure shell' client/server. It lets you get access to the linux shell on a Tablet. See http://maemo.org/community/wiki/installssh2006/ Nov 14 16:15:01 That's .. Interesting .. Nov 14 16:15:15 Cool, and interesting. Nov 14 16:15:19 What xterm? Nov 14 16:15:20 <_Monkey> somebody said xterm was the enhanced version of osso-xterm from maemo-hackers. It adds font and color selection support, URL opening through context menu, and a sidebar with additional keys such as Ctrl+letters. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/osso-xterm-advanced or http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/download/maemo/xterm/debs/ for an alternate onscreen keyboard Nov 14 16:15:21 It is still a dev release though Nov 14 16:15:29 Ah Nov 14 16:16:04 Not sure, it just pops open, osso_xterm, shows BusyBox v1.6.1 Nov 14 16:16:09 who owns _Monkey? Nov 14 16:16:18 perl, python? Nov 14 16:16:28 Can't he be made to reply to questions starting with some special char? Nov 14 16:16:43 yeah, some special char like ‽ Nov 14 16:16:49 ! ~ etc Nov 14 16:17:02 ~ is already used I think Nov 14 16:17:11 or naem of the bot Nov 14 16:17:13 ~itt Nov 14 16:17:16 I haven't found any repositories with python or ssh yet. Nov 14 16:17:28 what zoran said Nov 14 16:17:31 sciboy: tried maemo extras? Nov 14 16:17:44 Nope. Nov 14 16:17:45 naem == name Nov 14 16:17:57 I've only had this running for less about 10 minutes. =P Nov 14 16:18:13 now you cannot hide! Nov 14 16:18:17 no info on shipping Nov 14 16:18:26 anyone booting from mmc with 2008 yet? Nov 14 16:18:33 sciboy: it's already listed in the app catalog, but it's disabled Nov 14 16:19:08 Refreshing Nov 14 16:19:20 speaking of MMC, why did nokia have to change SD size/format again?! Nov 14 16:19:27 scummvm is already built for 2008 Nov 14 16:19:38 I see python2.5 Nov 14 16:19:42 fb2reader? Nov 14 16:19:43 it wasn't bad moving up to SD, because you can just use an adapter, but down to mini now Nov 14 16:19:47 they didn't have space for full size SD Nov 14 16:20:12 No fbreader from what I can see. Nov 14 16:20:24 fbreader has an OS 2008 port Nov 14 16:20:26 it was not a capricious decisino Nov 14 16:20:57 I wonder if the CPU is on 400Mhz now... Nov 14 16:21:01 How can I check? Nov 14 16:21:12 pupnik: how is that? i mean, full size SD isn't big, not the card nor the pins, not like having a CF slot or something. i mean, i don't really care that much, i have mini SD for my phone and GBA flash cart, but uff, now i have a few more 1 GB cards i can't use :P Nov 14 16:21:42 fbreader for OS2008: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/maemo4.php Nov 14 16:22:04 are there any ebook readers for maemo than fbreader? Nov 14 16:22:18 pcspeaker: cat /proc/cpuinfo ? Nov 14 16:22:19 microdrive would make device worth of porting almost everything Nov 14 16:22:25 rev, this is the word from the horses mouth: space constraints. i wasn't there to debate it Nov 14 16:22:31 Someone know where i can find libbz2-1.0 for chinook ? Nov 14 16:23:05 pcspeaker, /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_fre Nov 14 16:23:09 I'd rather have two SD slots than the stupid thumb board Nov 14 16:23:17 should be a q at the end of the last path Nov 14 16:23:30 Sweet got FBReader. =D Nov 14 16:23:44 How well does google maps run? Nov 14 16:23:45 pcspeaker, the frequency is dynamic on OS2008 depending on how much work its doing Nov 14 16:23:52 does dmesg give something? Nov 14 16:24:01 And the max value is? Nov 14 16:24:16 Kriebel, then just keep or buy an n800, same os same CPU, no keyboard?? Nov 14 16:24:21 Khertan, Check you got maemo extras enabled in the application manager. Nov 14 16:24:32 Khertan, It says it's available for me. Nov 14 16:24:49 so is there any easteregg in OS 2008? Nov 14 16:25:01 Anybody manage to get through a whole map download on OS2008? Nov 14 16:25:07 penguinbait, yeah, I could do that. I'm waiting to see if one or the other actually gets sold with WiMAX in my area Nov 14 16:25:08 Anyone know how the navigation stuff works on OS2008? It done over a 'net connection or on the device itself? Nov 14 16:25:14 pcspeaker, 165000 266000 330000 400000 are the aviable values Nov 14 16:25:25 pcspeaker, representing 165mhz 266mhz 330mhz and 400mhz Nov 14 16:25:31 Same way as Navicore does it now. Nov 14 16:25:32 pcspeaker: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq Nov 14 16:25:32 sciboy > extra is activated .... Strange Nov 14 16:25:39 GeneralAntilles: which is how? Nov 14 16:25:41 does the speed of a memory card depends on the format: SD, MCC, MicroSD ?? (i'm totally noob at that) Nov 14 16:25:46 Local, I believe Nov 14 16:25:49 GeneralAntilles: I'm wondering what data is contained within the maps Nov 14 16:26:01 for doing routing ourselves :) Nov 14 16:26:09 TPC, like powerd? Nov 14 16:26:20 zoran, something like that Nov 14 16:26:30 that is cool Nov 14 16:26:33 Khertan, Well I ran apt-cache search and it showed libbz2-1.0 Nov 14 16:26:38 altought I belive it does it in the kernel rather than having a userspace daemon Nov 14 16:26:51 better option Nov 14 16:26:51 guardian, the speed of the card depends more on the specs of the card and the reader, not the type of card; but I hear MMC is a little slower than the newer SD Nov 14 16:26:55 Khertan, Only other apps I have installed are Ogg Support, Mauku and FBReader Nov 14 16:26:57 saves battery Nov 14 16:27:18 I'm not really sure what the obsession I see in here the past few days with CPU speed is Nov 14 16:27:29 everyone says it seems faster, and that's the important thing Nov 14 16:27:36 sciboy > can you paste mme your source.list ? Nov 14 16:27:39 the year of omap2420 envy is ending soon Nov 14 16:27:46 I wouldn't care if my computer ran at 1Hz if it was fast enough for what I needed it for Nov 14 16:27:55 elb :D Nov 14 16:27:58 1 Hz Nov 14 16:27:58 keeps the world spin Nov 14 16:28:04 that would suck Nov 14 16:28:08 Khertan, No, don't have the patience to work that out right now. Nov 14 16:28:15 loading Windows XP in a year Nov 14 16:28:17 elb needs some real time system Nov 14 16:28:23 like qnx Nov 14 16:28:58 2008 mplayer anyone? Nov 14 16:28:59 elb, speed isn't the only issue Nov 14 16:29:01 elb: more is always better, especially when it comes to playing movies Nov 14 16:29:05 elb, battery life is important as well Nov 14 16:29:07 nobody uses qnx anymore ;-) Nov 14 16:29:08 lardman: not really Nov 14 16:29:21 elb: no, but in this case yes Nov 14 16:29:25 TPC: yes, I know that ... I'm saying the obsession in here is stupid, not agreeing with it Nov 14 16:29:30 Tak, it was intended for embedded Nov 14 16:29:33 pcspeaker: everything without gtk should just work.. Nov 14 16:29:35 sciboy > can t find it with apt-cache Nov 14 16:29:45 pcspeaker: 2007 versions I mean. Nov 14 16:30:12 lardman: there are plenty of MPEG decoders which run at ~100MHz (or less) Nov 14 16:30:22 zoran: even for embedded Nov 14 16:30:26 the question should always be, "is it fast enough?", not "how many MHz is it?" Nov 14 16:30:53 tak, some instruments people almost don't see, used in everyday job Nov 14 16:30:58 there is a *lot* of qnx out there Nov 14 16:31:05 even "is it fast enough for what i want to do with it" Nov 14 16:31:19 it's true that you don't see neutrino everywhere you turn, but neutrino was never qnx's selling point Nov 14 16:31:21 no not fast enough Nov 14 16:31:48 elb, I made a mistake mentioning qnx Nov 14 16:31:54 like do i need a dsp, a fpu, gpu, etc.. Nov 14 16:31:58 meh, we went from qnx => rtlinux => linux Nov 14 16:32:18 jott is that a joke??? Nov 14 16:32:31 "we don't use it any more" is a very different claim from "nobody uses it any more" Nov 14 16:32:35 or pure ironic? Nov 14 16:32:48 Ar-ras: no the truth.. Nov 14 16:32:55 yeah, I'm with jott, here Nov 14 16:32:55 :O Nov 14 16:33:08 i don't need a gpu on a dedicated crypto solution Nov 14 16:33:08 every MHz you can shave off, and every device you can leave out, is a smaller power footprint Nov 14 16:33:10 i give you a calculator Nov 14 16:33:25 choose your device capabilities for what you want to use it for Nov 14 16:33:31 lol elb Nov 14 16:33:32 Night everyone. Nov 14 16:33:45 Have fun with the hoard of people reporting about 2008 on the N800 Nov 14 16:33:47 i gave you both a 10 $ Calculator Nov 14 16:33:50 elb: can you point me to one (MPEG decoder)? Nov 14 16:33:57 Modern task are cpu-intensive... Nov 14 16:34:01 Like flash... Nov 14 16:34:01 Ar-ras: if what I want to do is simple math, then sure Nov 14 16:34:04 heh - how's this: "I don't see anybody using it in new devices anymore" Nov 14 16:34:21 Or compressed video decoding... Nov 14 16:34:25 elb what do you want to do with N800? Nov 14 16:34:45 maybe an old Windows Mobile Device is the right for you? Nov 14 16:34:59 :D Nov 14 16:35:20 still has DSP and stuff, but is slow Nov 14 16:35:23 Ar-ras, not a windows device could help Nov 14 16:35:33 Ar-ras: I'm not saying slow is good, I'm saying an obsession with *CPU MHz* is stupid Nov 14 16:35:57 dont think so Nov 14 16:36:01 elb, a lot of people means multimedia for n810 Nov 14 16:36:06 elb: that's the point.. especially if there are optional components that perform much better than a generic cpu.. Nov 14 16:36:15 (given a specific task) Nov 14 16:36:26 I think the point here is that people have used the device at 330mhz and wanted it to be faster doing certain things, that's why the move to 400mhz is good Nov 14 16:36:45 I just want it to boot faster. Nov 14 16:36:58 derf: huh? Nov 14 16:37:03 And ARM is more power efficient but very slow comparing to the modern x86... Nov 14 16:37:15 lardman: there are Hitachi SuperH devices which are such Nov 14 16:37:30 lardman: they have hardware assist, of course, but that's the point -- *MHz* is meaningless Nov 14 16:37:33 It takes like over a minute to go from power on to where I can actually click on a menu. Nov 14 16:37:34 holy cow... the shared folders idea isn't working too well Nov 14 16:37:55 elb: but that's a dsp Nov 14 16:38:14 milhouse, why not? Nov 14 16:38:16 elb: see my comment above, mhz is a useful metric sometimes Nov 14 16:38:17 the SuperH is a general purpose microprocessor Nov 14 16:38:18 i've got a folder with over 200GB and 20,000+ directories - each time the N800 tries to access that share it iterates every directory and file from the beginning. nuts. Nov 14 16:38:18 derf: Why would you ever power it down? Nov 14 16:38:27 elb: with a dsp Nov 14 16:38:38 Because it doesn't last all day otherwise. Nov 14 16:38:42 lardman: I still believe the comment is incorrect Nov 14 16:38:43 milhouse where is this option? Nov 14 16:38:51 file manager -> Shared folders Nov 14 16:38:58 lardman: it sounds to me like the speed improvement in OS2008 is probably, as much as anything, code and/or optimizer changes Nov 14 16:38:58 milhouse, maybe the number of subdirectories matters Nov 14 16:39:05 it's picked up my NAS, Win XP and Win2K3 machines Nov 14 16:39:08 elb: we'll agree to differ then :) Nov 14 16:39:19 lardman: because 330MHz->400MHz is trivial, unles you're *just* on the cusp of being able to do something Nov 14 16:39:28 derf, if it doesn't last all day without powering down you should go back to the store and get it fixed Nov 14 16:39:32 derf, because then its broken Nov 14 16:39:33 elb: and that's exactly the point with mplayer Nov 14 16:39:34 but the NAS is unusable because it takes a couple of hours for the N800 to walk every directory Nov 14 16:39:43 derf: It can be standby for days/weeks? Nov 14 16:39:43 milhouse dont have that option? Nov 14 16:39:47 derf, when not used it uses so little power that it could just as well have been off Nov 14 16:39:56 A 20% boost is hardly trivial. Nov 14 16:40:01 That has not been my experience. Nov 14 16:40:04 derf, standby time is up to two weeks withotu any problems Nov 14 16:40:13 lardman: sure, there may be a specific operation or two -- but there are zillions of people obsessing about *MHz* in here, even when they have shown themselves that 2008 does or does not fix the problem they were looking for Nov 14 16:40:16 derf: And booting justs _A_ _LOT_ of energy! Nov 14 16:40:18 ar-ras - i'm not sure what technology it's using to share the content, UPnP maybe? Nov 14 16:40:29 ehm ... uses.. Nov 14 16:40:31 if you've got any folders shared on an XP machine it should list it Nov 14 16:40:31 on ITT someone wrote UPnP Nov 14 16:40:33 X-Fade: It sure does. Nov 14 16:40:35 milhouse, maybe some fuse option could help? Nov 14 16:40:39 lardman: people are here saying "oh wowowowowow my youtube plays now!" "how many MHz am I?" Nov 14 16:40:51 They're just interested to know. Nov 14 16:40:55 There's no harm in it. ;) Nov 14 16:40:59 It _claims_ it will last for 9 or 10 days, but it doesn't. Nov 14 16:41:00 elb, people buy device for that :) Nov 14 16:41:04 elb youtube is internet service Nov 14 16:41:08 elb: comparing different platforms is pointless, but for the same one to be clocked higher one can make more meaningful comparisons Nov 14 16:41:10 Mine does, derf. :\ Nov 14 16:41:11 Internet Tablet Nov 14 16:41:14 re Nov 14 16:41:16 got the point? Nov 14 16:41:25 zoran: sure, I understand that youtube playing is a great feature -- but MHz are irrelevant Nov 14 16:41:30 either it plays, or it doesn't Nov 14 16:41:35 elb: I agree about the fact that the software may be different though Nov 14 16:41:41 derf: I think yours is broken ;) Nov 14 16:41:46 Must be. Nov 14 16:41:50 elb, the thing is people like talking about things Nov 14 16:41:52 and I *strongly* suspect that the fact that it plays now and did not before is an optimization issue, not a 70MHz processor difference Nov 14 16:41:53 elb, I use 770 the way you do, but I understand all those folks wanthin films etc Nov 14 16:41:56 derf: Or you have installed software that remains active.. Nov 14 16:42:14 derf: I find that x-term kills my battery Nov 14 16:42:39 lardman, ? Nov 14 16:42:40 <_Monkey> lardman, is normal that google sat not work? Nov 14 16:43:00 lardman: How so? Nov 14 16:43:09 zoran: whenever I leave xterm running my battery life is less than with nothing running Nov 14 16:43:27 k, it is one more process Nov 14 16:43:27 milhouse sharing a folder on my pc but not seeing in Filemanager Nov 14 16:43:35 anyone running the hacker os on the 770 Nov 14 16:43:40 milhouse should i reboot N800 ? Nov 14 16:43:54 zoran: perhaps, depends if the ram banks are shut down to save power, otherwise it should just go to sleep and it would be the same Nov 14 16:44:06 writes to swap? Nov 14 16:44:20 not enabled Nov 14 16:44:29 what if you do? Nov 14 16:44:33 ah now Nov 14 16:45:00 lardman, does top works on your device? Nov 14 16:45:06 or something similar Nov 14 16:45:17 zoran: yes Nov 14 16:45:21 the 20% boost can also be looked at like a present to us to use for software-decoding of audio, since ogg isn't on the dsp yet. :P Nov 14 16:45:31 zoran: but running top will defeat dyntick Nov 14 16:45:35 is there any sign of memory problem? Nov 14 16:45:42 k Nov 14 16:45:48 pupnik: yeah, yeah, I'm starting work again ;) Nov 14 16:46:07 pupnik, yet? you think it will be? Nov 14 16:46:10 Daniellion: i have run it, and some ppl use it exclusively Nov 14 16:46:18 zoran: I don't know, it's not a huge difference, I've not bothered to track down what it's doing to tell the truth Nov 14 16:46:21 so far everything is working Nov 14 16:46:32 though playing audio like the bbc radio stuff seems to lock the interface Nov 14 16:46:38 lardman, if works, who cares Nov 14 16:47:06 if i hit the dual key lock/unlock i can go to off line mode and kill the streaming net connection which lets me stop the stream app Nov 14 16:47:23 lardman: xterm is well known to wake idle processors *very* frequently Nov 14 16:47:32 I forget if it's at 10Hz or 100Hz, but it's frequent Nov 14 16:47:46 Daniellion: are you using latest version? There were memory corruption issues - get very newest version (like yesterday or something) Nov 14 16:47:46 elb: really? Okay, not just my imagination then :) Nov 14 16:47:56 lardman: yeah, this is documented by the powertop guys Nov 14 16:47:56 Oh? Nov 14 16:48:08 what were the symptons pup? Nov 14 16:48:11 elb, just xterm? Nov 14 16:48:15 Gtk.glade is missing arg ..... Nov 14 16:48:22 zoran: many applications do so, xterm is one such application Nov 14 16:48:32 i flashed it over the weekend Nov 14 16:48:36 I think there are patches floating around to fix t hat Nov 14 16:49:03 elb: quite important for a device that produces its good battery life by doing dyntick (and cpufreq too now) Nov 14 16:49:18 * elb passes out the free urxvt Nov 14 16:49:28 in .deb form ;) Nov 14 16:49:42 elb, for 2006 also? Nov 14 16:50:19 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/new_os2007_he_for_the_nokia_770_with_mozilla_engine_and_memory_corruption_bugfix.html <<< Daniellion Nov 14 16:50:20 http://www.lesswatts.org/projects/powertop/known.php#xterm Nov 14 16:50:44 zoran: I don't *build* urxvt, I'm just saying, it sucks a lot less than xterm ;-) Nov 14 16:50:55 k Nov 14 16:51:11 I have a problems just in xterm on freebsd Nov 14 16:51:24 some keyboard issues on ssh etc Nov 14 16:51:30 hmm, might be doable then - wrap xterm in a shell script and add the +sm switch Nov 14 16:51:37 but just for one type of conenction Nov 14 16:51:49 lardman, could be too much Nov 14 16:52:03 how come? Nov 14 16:52:17 maybe simple, smaller term... Nov 14 16:52:25 btw for Desktop PC i found switftfox (faster firefox) and using noscript + adblocker plugins i have stable browser again :) Nov 14 16:52:47 zoran: this is easier than writing a new maemo wrapper for a different term Nov 14 16:52:48 lardman: or put xterm*sessionMgt: false in your X resource database Nov 14 16:53:01 elb: that's an idea Nov 14 16:53:10 maybe XTerm Nov 14 16:53:12 lardman, probably correct Nov 14 16:53:13 I forget what xterm uses Nov 14 16:53:29 im gonna get the 810 Nov 14 16:53:32 will there be a new IT OS 2008 release when N810 comes out? Nov 14 16:53:35 hihi Nov 14 16:53:41 and selling my 770 to a friend.. ill let him know Nov 14 16:53:50 every new user of n810 should update *G* Nov 14 16:54:29 Get the N800 instead, Daniellion, especially if you don't need the upgraded screen. Nov 14 16:54:39 $212 is a much better price than $470 Nov 14 16:55:12 upgraded screen? Nov 14 16:55:26 transflective Nov 14 16:56:22 nice Nov 14 16:56:42 i definately want to upgrade to the 810, but the one thing stopping me is the d-pad bein hidden away Nov 14 16:56:48 that wud annoy me so much Nov 14 16:57:00 bring on a keyboard :) Nov 14 16:57:09 I agree Atarii, They should have had 2 dpads Nov 14 16:57:30 anyone else think 2008os is ugly Nov 14 16:57:48 Meh, themes will fix it soon enough. Nov 14 16:58:00 true Nov 14 16:58:08 wumpus: I'll see if I can build a proper insmod and see whether the module wants to go this evening Nov 14 16:58:09 Changing your background help a lot. ;) Nov 14 16:58:09 how many default themes on 2008os are there? 4 like usual? Nov 14 16:58:14 2 Nov 14 16:58:17 see you all later Nov 14 16:58:19 I like the windows look, but the ugly icons have ot go Nov 14 16:58:39 2 on my image Nov 14 16:58:50 echo and glasser Nov 14 16:58:52 penguinbait, pretty too much colors and the default style is not so pleasant to me Nov 14 16:59:42 both themes stink Nov 14 17:00:00 for me it started on n800 Nov 14 17:00:16 simple 2006 stype looks better Nov 14 17:00:20 *style Nov 14 17:00:23 Don't know why they reduced the number of brightness levels. Nov 14 17:00:32 Try plankton too... Nov 14 17:00:37 to not complain Nov 14 17:00:42 thats easily fixed Nov 14 17:01:03 this is also not final version from my understanding Nov 14 17:01:44 I'm pretty sure it is the final version Nov 14 17:01:54 I installed ssh, but rootme wont let me in Nov 14 17:02:01 what is the root password? Nov 14 17:02:02 <_Monkey> the root password is, like, rootme Nov 14 17:02:08 Probably different passwords .. Nov 14 17:02:12 not anymore Monkey Nov 14 17:02:24 penguinbait: It should be rootme.. Nov 14 17:02:47 hmm, can you verify it Nov 14 17:03:33 wont let me in Nov 14 17:03:37 It still rootme Nov 14 17:03:48 I ve verified Nov 14 17:03:54 I had to enable R&D mode Nov 14 17:03:58 ah Nov 14 17:04:05 no RD mode enable Nov 14 17:04:07 G'day folks! Nov 14 17:05:35 or you could ssh to it Nov 14 17:06:31 penguinbait, rootme worked for me Nov 14 17:06:36 when sshing Nov 14 17:06:44 ssh didn't work for me, either. Nov 14 17:07:12 Hmm i liked the LCARS them myself ;) Nov 14 17:07:12 ssh root@localhost Nov 14 17:07:13 <_Monkey> ssh root@localhost is the way I'm using it on n800 Nov 14 17:07:17 it caught soo much attn Nov 14 17:07:30 I did not enable r/d mode Nov 14 17:07:47 you could change it later, manualy Nov 14 17:08:09 penguinbait is your kde addon working for the 810? or don't you have one yet? Nov 14 17:08:26 ssh root@localhost (or external) didn't work for me. Nov 14 17:08:34 penguinbait, just do it the easy way, enable rd mode and do sudo gainroot Nov 14 17:08:34 :P Nov 14 17:08:59 Rhapsody home applet is rather nice Nov 14 17:09:08 They kinda went overboard with the transparency, though. :\ Nov 14 17:09:37 Crap, I just realised my device isn't going to dual boot anymore O_O Nov 14 17:09:41 No 810 yet, but KDE3.5.8 is compiled and ready to go Nov 14 17:09:47 testing begins NOW!! Nov 14 17:09:52 GeneralAntilles, I love the transparency :P Nov 14 17:10:05 You and your KDcrap Nov 14 17:10:09 what xterm are you using? Nov 14 17:10:12 Pft Nov 14 17:10:15 Aqua, baby! Nov 14 17:10:51 what xterm repository are you using Nov 14 17:10:51 penguinbait wats kde like on the 770? Nov 14 17:11:05 That's nice. The root password is in /etc/passwd Nov 14 17:11:11 Though it's not plain text. Nov 14 17:11:20 I compile KDE after getting 800. my 770 never made it back from Nokia repair Nov 14 17:11:34 penguinbait, they stole your 770?! Nov 14 17:11:38 ah :( any reports from 770 users? Nov 14 17:11:41 They paid me for it Nov 14 17:11:55 They paid you money for your 770? Weird. Nov 14 17:12:02 wish they wud buy mine, i want to get rid of it Nov 14 17:12:03 How much? Was it cost price? Nov 14 17:12:05 It runs OK with swap enabled, I want to see how it runs on 2008os Nov 14 17:12:24 Atarii, kde on 770? I have 770, but never thouhgt about Nov 14 17:12:28 They paid me 200$ but it was when the n80 was just out, so I took the money and upgraded Nov 14 17:12:52 Right Nov 14 17:13:04 I had a 6682 I paid 300$ for from letstalk.com, Nokia paid me 325$ for it after being at repair over 30 days Nov 14 17:13:05 pb is there instr for installing without doing the dual boot memory card thing.. Nov 14 17:13:15 jnettlet_ cool your in MA too? Nov 14 17:13:17 Why does everybody insist on calling a MAC address a "serial number"? Nov 14 17:13:28 GeneralAntilles, because nokia calls it that Nov 14 17:13:33 Daniellion: yeah Nov 14 17:13:35 Ah, right. Nov 14 17:13:35 Cambridge Nov 14 17:13:36 <_Monkey> Cambridge is a weird outer london IT haven too Nov 14 17:13:48 lol Nov 14 17:13:53 im in cambridge too! Nov 14 17:13:54 cool Nov 14 17:13:57 Me too! Nov 14 17:13:58 im near Nov 14 17:14:03 I live in Bar Hill :) Nov 14 17:14:07 were talking cambridge MA us Nov 14 17:14:10 not cambridge Uk Nov 14 17:14:15 Pfft. Nov 14 17:14:20 my gf used to live there alterego Nov 14 17:14:24 im talkin uk :p Nov 14 17:14:24 Oh, that Cambridge .. Nov 14 17:14:26 you all live close to each other? get together, have a OS2008 release party, get a few beers Nov 14 17:14:29 :P Nov 14 17:14:39 yay cool Nov 14 17:14:41 Atarii, name? I might know her ;) Nov 14 17:14:42 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631&highlight=simplified Nov 14 17:14:45 im prolly ordering my 810 soon Nov 14 17:14:55 I don't have anything that runs os2008. I was hoping to get a discount for the n810 but didn't Nov 14 17:15:00 I had to find it, Daniellion Nov 14 17:15:03 So it is just me and my trusty n770 Nov 14 17:15:04 I found a way to make the mostly white os looks 1/2 way decent Nov 14 17:15:09 there you go, I have not used them myself though Nov 14 17:15:10 lol she only lived there when she was young Nov 14 17:15:31 There's no such thing as a "n770". <_< Nov 14 17:15:35 Atarii, We probably went to school together Nov 14 17:15:37 jnettlet_ same here, lets hav a 2008he release party, if it happens Nov 14 17:15:54 N770 n770 Nov 14 17:15:55 erf... do you ahve to do it with an ext card? Nov 14 17:16:08 nokia 770 Nov 14 17:16:08 <_Monkey> nokia 770 is the best plataform for homebrew this day Nov 14 17:16:10 picky picky Nov 14 17:16:13 must we get picky Nov 14 17:16:18 hehe Nov 14 17:16:36 * alterego wonders how he can take a screen shot in OS2008 Nov 14 17:16:39 really the speed doesn't bother me I just wish I had the additional memory Nov 14 17:16:49 770 is the proof of the concept, elb had in minds Nov 14 17:17:00 btw jnettlet_ the 2007 he works fine so far on my 770 Nov 14 17:17:07 just the audio glitch Nov 14 17:17:12 I bought 770 as soon as I heard they existed Nov 14 17:17:30 Daniellion: yeah I have had it on mine for a long time now. Even back when it was a little less polished Nov 14 17:17:31 I wanted a zaurus for a long time, but kept waiting Nov 14 17:17:37 mstly because of cost Nov 14 17:17:50 it's gone now Nov 14 17:18:22 I quite wanted a Zaurus when the first came out. Nov 14 17:18:27 I'm glad I never bothered. Nov 14 17:18:35 Yeah, so did I, penguinbait. Nov 14 17:18:49 alterego: with my screen grabber :) Nov 14 17:18:54 it is really better I didn't get a n810 discount. I had a bunch of projects planned for it and now I can ignore them and do more important work. Nov 14 17:19:01 kulve, ? Nov 14 17:19:01 <_Monkey> kulve, are you serious? Nov 14 17:19:05 kulve, link? Nov 14 17:19:16 there's a screen shot tools Nov 14 17:19:17 http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2007/01/17/maemo-screen-grabber/ Nov 14 17:19:44 timeless, ? Nov 14 17:19:44 <_Monkey> it has been said that timeless, is there a way for the user to choose between rdf and atom feeds? Nov 14 17:20:01 kulve: hey, where are you? Nov 14 17:20:01 _Monkey forget timeless Nov 14 17:20:02 <_Monkey> alterego: I forgot timeless Nov 14 17:20:08 timeless: home Nov 14 17:20:12 _Monkey timeless is Nov 14 17:20:13 <_Monkey> OK, alterego. Nov 14 17:20:14 timeless, domain problem was solved! Nov 14 17:20:32 zoran: which? Nov 14 17:20:36 I'm going to write a #maemo log analyser :) Nov 14 17:20:48 repo unable to get files Nov 14 17:20:55 i'm, on a train to turku sataa Nov 14 17:21:05 cause? Nov 14 17:21:19 I think a lot of information in this channel should be put out there for people. Nov 14 17:21:28 some tweak on maemo server for domains that do not have devices for sale Nov 14 17:21:31 alterego: It's called google ;) Nov 14 17:22:00 X-Fade, sure. But correlating it all into a nice maemo specific site would be cool. Nov 14 17:22:15 It is funny to see how often #maemo shows up in google searches, because of the log.. Nov 14 17:22:55 Ha Nov 14 17:23:00 Yeah. It's quite useful sometimes :P Nov 14 17:23:07 Often as not it's of ME asking the question here. :\ Nov 14 17:23:18 <_berto_> is there a log of this channel available via web ? Nov 14 17:23:24 !topic Nov 14 17:23:37 kulve, your blog renders funny on IT :/ Nov 14 17:23:38 mgedmin has it Nov 14 17:24:00 alterego: it shouldn't (except for the menu on left..) Nov 14 17:24:14 <_berto_> oh, thx Nov 14 17:24:16 kulve, so where are you? I'm traveling@ across finlan :) Nov 14 17:24:20 Yes, that's what I'm refering to .. Nov 14 17:24:31 timeless: Like I said: at home :) Nov 14 17:24:46 anyone running 2008os, where did you get xterm from, no matter what I add it wont show up in my app manager Nov 14 17:25:05 penguinbait, it's in utilities. Nov 14 17:25:06 penguinbait: It is in your menu already :) Nov 14 17:25:07 alterego: at least opera in it2007os shows it correctly Nov 14 17:25:07 extras? Nov 14 17:25:08 <_Monkey> extras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free") Nov 14 17:25:19 penguinbait: No need to install it, it is already there. Nov 14 17:25:23 kulve, and how long is that going to be useful for :P Nov 14 17:25:25 ah scroll down Nov 14 17:25:26 hehe Nov 14 17:25:31 I've not used Opera for ages .. Nov 14 17:25:41 * timeless was looking for something more gps compatible :) Nov 14 17:25:47 alterego: I think the mozilla renders it correct too.. Nov 14 17:25:59 kulve, I'm looking at it and I told you it's funny. Nov 14 17:26:09 alterego: maybe it's just designed so? :) Nov 14 17:26:22 The menu is being placed ontop of the text. Nov 14 17:26:29 So you can't read it clearly. Nov 14 17:26:46 alterego: hmm.. that might happen if the screen is too wide.. Nov 14 17:27:02 alterego: it doensn't behave well on too small screens, I admit that.. Nov 14 17:27:12 Well then :P Nov 14 17:27:22 but on my n800, it's ok Nov 14 17:27:27 Your program doesn't work on OS2008 Nov 14 17:27:31 I'll fix it, if the n810 shows it wrong :) Nov 14 17:27:39 kulve, it does. Nov 14 17:27:48 Your site is displayed funny in OS2008 Nov 14 17:27:49 alterego: it should.. Did you click the chinook version? Nov 14 17:28:01 It installed fine. It just doesn't work. Nov 14 17:28:36 it shouldn't show anything, but you it should take a screenshot after 5secs and save it to MyDocs/Images Nov 14 17:28:41 screenshot-something.png Nov 14 17:28:48 That's silly. Nov 14 17:28:55 You should get it to display a hildon note. Nov 14 17:28:56 then uninstall it :) Nov 14 17:29:13 Any indication of it being successfull would be a vast improvement :P Nov 14 17:29:16 it uses dbus-send to show a banner, but it seems that the dbus api for that has changed in os2008 Nov 14 17:29:28 heh Nov 14 17:29:42 You could always do it the proper way .. Nov 14 17:29:45 alterego: it's basicly a 5 line shell scripta ;) Nov 14 17:29:45 Using the wrapper .. Nov 14 17:29:46 yay api breaks Nov 14 17:30:25 * timeless visits salo.fi.. Nov 14 17:30:25 alterego: it has work well enough for me, show I haven't had the need to change it.. Nov 14 17:30:29 bbl Nov 14 17:30:52 kulve, it's not working in OS2008 :P Nov 14 17:31:11 www.unifursalstudios.com/n770.png Nov 14 17:31:33 wow Nov 14 17:31:36 fine Nov 14 17:31:38 :) Nov 14 17:31:52 i have it working in 2007 no problem Nov 14 17:31:57 just used it to take that Nov 14 17:32:39 I'm really digging OS2008 MicroB. D-pad scrolling rocks. :D Nov 14 17:32:54 isn't there a hildon screenshot tool as well? Nov 14 17:33:16 GeneralAntilles: have you a real n810 ? Nov 14 17:33:23 Pft . . . no. Nov 14 17:34:04 are you using the OS2008 for n800 on this guide: http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html?tag=head Nov 14 17:34:06 ? Nov 14 17:34:30 Well, yes, OS2008 on the N800, but I flashed before that guide was posted. ;) Nov 14 17:35:11 hehehe Nov 14 17:35:26 what guide? Nov 14 17:35:26 <_Monkey> it has been said that guide is probably at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot/infobot_guide.html Nov 14 17:35:30 so is this quite 'secure' to do ? Nov 14 17:35:41 Does anyone know what the time frame is for the final release? Nov 14 17:36:05 Don't know what you mean by "secure", but it works just fine for me. Nov 14 17:37:00 the people who have an idea can't say Nov 14 17:37:21 and when they can say, it'll be on planet Nov 14 17:37:28 and the people without a clue will tell you everyday :) Nov 14 17:37:28 is there a good changelog anywhere? Nov 14 17:38:18 fwiw there are some fairly painful bugs that will be fixed in the first service release, some are much more relevant to the n800 ... Nov 14 17:39:05 first service release meaning after the official release? Nov 14 17:39:16 bill: the only good changelog i know of is for browser, and i wrote it. But you don't have to take my word for it Nov 14 17:40:48 heh, I was thinking more of what's coming in os2008 on the n800 Nov 14 17:41:00 i can,t speak for time tables/release schedules, but personally, i have a bunch of n800s and i wouldn't flash the initial n810 release on them. I certainly could, i could even flash proper equivalent n80 images. Nov 14 17:41:04 OS2008 is nice. Nov 14 17:41:31 hand it over mister. Nov 14 17:41:32 :-) Nov 14 17:41:43 timeless, not permanently, but its always fun to do it temporarily to try it out, see whats new Nov 14 17:41:46 If you want to install it just do it .. Nov 14 17:42:30 Wow .. They've even made it hide passwords in the terminal O_O Nov 14 17:42:39 ik think that thoughtfix and others probably do a fairly good job covering new... Nov 14 17:43:09 * Tak nods @ timeless Nov 14 17:43:23 timeless, why don't you then? Lack of applications? Nov 14 17:43:25 someone know if this mail "nokia.developer@nokia.nfusion.com" comes from nokia ? Nov 14 17:43:45 alterego: careful, password hiding is the bug i have in mind (it's in bugs.maemo, so you an read for youself..) Nov 14 17:43:58 Number? Nov 14 17:43:59 <_Monkey> Number is meaningless because most of them are duplicates or don't belong in browser Nov 14 17:44:10 _Monkey forget Number Nov 14 17:44:10 <_Monkey> alterego: I forgot number Nov 14 17:44:18 _Monkey Number is Nov 14 17:44:19 <_Monkey> OK, alterego. Nov 14 17:44:28 Dumb ass .. Nov 14 17:44:29 bugs filed last friday in systemsoftware/VKB Nov 14 17:44:44 Okay Nov 14 17:44:47 * timeless doesn't memorize numbers Nov 14 17:45:27 Well, I'm not too fussed. I'm just impressed the VKB hid my password in the terminal :) Nov 14 17:45:57 Speaking of apps.. anyone here use pidgin? Nov 14 17:46:10 waste of time and effort. Nov 14 17:46:13 Jabber is much nicer. ;) Nov 14 17:46:16 fwiw, iirc we still botch passwords at times in microb... Nov 14 17:46:47 ssh passwords are auto-completed as well if you use ssh from xterm Nov 14 17:46:53 daniellion: someone sometimes here seems to maintain at least a port of it Nov 14 17:46:55 im frustrated that i cant find anyone to prog an option to turn off groups.. like adium can or trillian.. so all i see is an alpha list of names.. i hate scrolling though on smaller screens Nov 14 17:46:58 Has anyone testing the bluetooth hands free device with OS2008? I think that was supposed to work in this build. Nov 14 17:47:23 mmillr: something specific? Nov 14 17:47:37 <|R> Daniellion : i do on 2007/n800 Nov 14 17:47:37 suposedly agile moble has out a java version Nov 14 17:47:46 Daniellion, that's more of an upstream request. Nov 14 17:47:54 i remember pairing devices as far back as 2006 Nov 14 17:47:59 I tried putting a ticket in Nov 14 17:48:05 someone else already did they killed mine Nov 14 17:48:08 timeless: Being able to use a hands free head set with OS2008. Nov 14 17:48:18 timeless: Like you would with a cell phone. Nov 14 17:48:35 <|R> i hope it does Nov 14 17:48:37 Cool, it comes with USB ethernet support. Nov 14 17:48:40 i lvoe my version 2 LG chocolate as a evdo modem Nov 14 17:48:42 my n810s are on a bus to turku Nov 14 17:49:13 my n800s are at work Nov 14 17:49:13 my hands free is at home Nov 14 17:49:14 and i'm on a train all alone :( Nov 14 17:49:53 timeless, at least you seem to have IRC, always something :P Nov 14 17:50:06 yeah xchat works Nov 14 17:50:13 irc, and gps(bt) Nov 14 17:50:16 cant find were to put the server password in anymore Nov 14 17:50:34 thought there were 2 floating around one version resized the ther was less pollished Nov 14 17:50:41 some dialogues are off screen Nov 14 17:51:21 yeah, there are two Nov 14 17:51:32 Hmm maybe i put the wrong one in then Nov 14 17:51:35 https://downloads.maemo.org/product/OS2007/maemo-xchat is the more polished one Nov 14 17:52:09 timeless: I would throw myself under the train at that point Nov 14 17:52:48 Hmm .. I can't mount ext2 :/ Nov 14 17:53:26 tak: my n81 8gb has a lot of podcasted stuff i snarffed earlier Nov 14 17:53:48 insmod ext2 and mbcache Nov 14 17:53:52 ah, that's all right, anyway Nov 14 17:54:11 mbcache isn't on the device. Nov 14 17:54:14 insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext2.ko Nov 14 17:54:22 Oh, yes it is :) Nov 14 17:54:30 hehe Nov 14 17:54:52 unfortunately, even this bt gps seems to be flaky.. All it has to do is keep its positon on a railway line. But no, it insists on jmping around the line Nov 14 17:55:23 timeless, probably one of the cheaper gps chipsets Nov 14 17:55:42 You also only generally get returns from satellites on one side of the car. Nov 14 17:55:52 the one I have with SiRF III is ok when inside a viechle, especially if the device is by the window Nov 14 17:55:56 Or lose them entirely in stations. Nov 14 17:55:57 i had one sirfIII bt gps dongle that really sucked due to having really shitty software.. Nov 14 17:56:08 afaik it's better than my other inaccessible options Nov 14 17:56:13 you had to reboot it to make a new connection to it and shit Nov 14 17:56:25 also it really sucked in finding sats Nov 14 17:56:26 yeah, the device is in th Nov 14 17:56:47 so just that it's a good chip doesn't mean that it's good Nov 14 17:56:47 GPS just isn't that accurate Nov 14 17:56:56 the error rate for GPS is minimum 5 meters Nov 14 17:57:00 err, yeah, the device is on a windowsill of this train car Nov 14 17:57:03 most of the time more Nov 14 17:57:09 you can get it down to 2 if using WAAS or EGNOS as well Nov 14 17:57:18 but I'm so far north that EGNOS doesn't cover this area :( Nov 14 17:57:24 are the kernel sources of ITOS2008 available ? Nov 14 17:57:45 3 meters is the number I'd always heard. Nov 14 17:58:01 sill is on the inner ttrack side (i.e., if outside it'd be between tracks) Nov 14 17:58:22 derf, under optimal conditions maybe, but the conditions are never optimal Nov 14 17:58:54 and i'm pretty sure my map wouldn't show 5m Nov 14 17:59:53 seems like the map is 1000yd wide. Standar phone screen Nov 14 18:00:01 damit.. maemo isn't letting me in to get xchat grrrrrr Nov 14 18:00:35 Did anyone check out the palm VM Nov 14 18:00:57 I was just looking at the faq, but I didn't care to give them my info to download it. Nov 14 18:01:01 timeless: well, when you are in a train you rarely need gps to know where you are going :P Nov 14 18:01:07 most bora apps still work on OS2008? Nov 14 18:01:11 I think I'll wait for it to come out of beta. Nov 14 18:01:19 fysa, of course not Nov 14 18:01:25 None of them do .. Nov 14 18:01:32 it's a LD-4" (nokia) Nov 14 18:01:35 ah Nov 14 18:01:43 err 4" Nov 14 18:01:46 err 4w Nov 14 18:02:12 suihkulokki: but i want to know where i am Nov 14 18:02:29 b0unc3 yes the kernel sources are availabel Nov 14 18:02:30 on a train. to turku. Nov 14 18:02:38 kaltsi: where ? Nov 14 18:02:54 b0unc3 in the chinook sdk repository apt-get source rx-34-kernel Nov 14 18:02:58 but more importantly, i'm testing the gps accuracy. People keep giving exxcuses about using gps on foot Nov 14 18:02:58 I just care about X-Chat :P Nov 14 18:03:10 but boy is maemo's site slow now Nov 14 18:03:41 my foot's not big enough for gps to matter much Nov 14 18:03:43 in case people are curious, i'm using an e61i w/ putty to vpn/scrreen/ssh/screen/epic. But Nov 14 18:04:18 the problem for gps is that the train is metallic tube. even the windows have metallic wiring inside them. Nov 14 18:04:30 but. Putty is giving me a white input box w/ white text, so i litterally can't see what i'm typing Nov 14 18:04:38 you can get a gps fix from an airplane tho Nov 14 18:04:45 No libgcrypt of libgnutls Nov 14 18:04:45 even with n95's shitty gps Nov 14 18:04:50 Pidgin doesn't install right :/ Nov 14 18:04:56 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/xchat/ Nov 14 18:05:01 is this the untweeked one? Nov 14 18:05:04 X-Chat + bitlbee is better than pidgin. :) Nov 14 18:05:17 timeless, wait until 2011 when gallileo becomes aviable Nov 14 18:05:25 then devices will come out that use both GPS and gallileo Nov 14 18:05:36 with very nice accuracy Nov 14 18:05:38 b0unc3 oops it's not there :) Nov 14 18:05:41 I use MSN Nov 14 18:05:48 And XChat is crap on the N800 Nov 14 18:06:12 Xchat works great Nov 14 18:06:13 X-Chat with Tree view. Nov 14 18:06:15 perfect. Nov 14 18:06:19 Just use Skyhuser's port. Nov 14 18:06:21 Not on the N800 Nov 14 18:06:27 the top zoom buttons flip tabs Nov 14 18:06:30 i'm using it right now. Nov 14 18:06:30 Unless you have an external KB .. Nov 14 18:06:33 Works fine for me. :\ Nov 14 18:06:42 link? Nov 14 18:06:43 you're probably better off running irssi on a server somewhere, and sshing in Nov 14 18:06:53 and bitlbee lets you access MSN/AIM/Yahoo via IRC Nov 14 18:06:57 the key is ZNC. Nov 14 18:07:08 damn thing won't let me fracking log in Nov 14 18:07:09 grr Nov 14 18:07:19 b0unc3 sorry I assumed that the package would contain the sources but it doesn't.. my bad Nov 14 18:07:46 ZNC to bitlbee and all of your IRC servers. Then you can run multiple clients simultaneously that share the same exact username/session on everything. If someone IM's me, it shows up on my N800, HTPC/XBMC, laptop, desktop and kitchen. Nov 14 18:07:54 Who is going to think up a cool use for the double-click option in mce.ini? Nov 14 18:08:07 sui: anyway, i should be at the port statioon in 15min Nov 14 18:08:23 all of your IM contacts show up in a private #bitlbee channel Nov 14 18:08:30 general: eh? Nov 14 18:08:44 God, Pidgin is uninstallable on OS2008 Nov 14 18:08:49 shared session IRC without using screen and irssi. Nov 14 18:09:17 * Tak agree @ xchat + bitlbee Nov 14 18:09:22 There's a new entry in mce.ini for a double-click on the powerkey. Nov 14 18:09:31 http://www.bitlbee.org/main.php/servers.html Nov 14 18:10:05 Jabber transports with the built-in client is the way to do it. Nov 14 18:10:06 kaltsi: np Nov 14 18:10:36 Jabber would be nice too, but not all IM protocols support multiple simultaneous logins. Nov 14 18:10:39 GeneralAntilles every1 was offline all the time when i tried that Nov 14 18:10:54 Gotta find a better server, then. Nov 14 18:10:59 what? Nov 14 18:11:00 no. I mean.. Nov 14 18:11:03 i.e., MSN. Nov 14 18:11:12 It logs you out if you login elsewhere. Nov 14 18:11:23 Daniellion: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install Nov 14 18:11:35 fysa, bitlbee is indeed nice Nov 14 18:11:42 but whats wrong with using it in screen+irssi? Nov 14 18:11:43 So if I'm sitting at my desk and need to walk somewhere, I have to break the conversation and start it with a different account. Nov 14 18:11:53 nothing :) Nov 14 18:12:01 I was using screen+weechat for a while. Nov 14 18:12:07 There should really be MSN and yahoo! support in the Chat app. Nov 14 18:12:12 but then noticed that X-Chat lets you put the tabs as a list ont he side.. Nov 14 18:12:24 and AIM! Nov 14 18:12:26 and you can get them big enough to be easily thumbable Nov 14 18:12:37 Yeah Nov 14 18:12:42 fysa, might work for you, but wouldn't be practical when you're in 30+ channels :P Nov 14 18:12:52 + pm windows Nov 14 18:13:18 yeah, I'm usually in 12-20 at most with half being IM conversations. Nov 14 18:13:30 I only IRC to talk about IRC. ;) Nov 14 18:14:20 my latest home theather/life integration 'tweak' last night was setting up nzbIRC. Nov 14 18:14:47 to work with bitlbee.. Nov 14 18:15:04 so the family can IM this bot to do usenet searches/queue downloads Nov 14 18:15:39 I've been thinking about making a bot that monitors various websites and other online resources Nov 14 18:15:43 and IMs me when interesting things happen Nov 14 18:15:58 so I "!autotv add Curb Your Enthusiasm" Nov 14 18:16:04 so I could get any interesting info directly on my IT Nov 14 18:16:11 and it auto-downloads every new CYE episode.. ;) Nov 14 18:16:13 or maybe puts them all in a RSS feed, that would be easier Nov 14 18:16:15 TPC reseach yahoo pipes Nov 14 18:16:44 Atarii, nah, I would use jabber Nov 14 18:16:57 there are problably good perl modules for easy interacting with jabber Nov 14 18:17:21 even if not, there are a ton for IRC and bitlbee is simple to get going. Nov 14 18:17:36 ok, i just knew that yahoo pipes can do that, as ive been workin with it recently, well the rss bit anyways Nov 14 18:17:42 indeed, I have made several IRC bots in my days, and even an IRC client once Nov 14 18:17:53 I don't know what the popular bots now are, but you could run an eggdrop(?) with RSS/google/IMDB/weather plugins and stick it on Jabber via bitl. Nov 14 18:18:20 whats the fun with that? much more fun making your own :P Nov 14 18:18:35 ah what fun, my train arrives 8 28pm. the ferry leaves 8 30pm Nov 14 18:18:50 there's a distance of 360yds plus stairs Nov 14 18:19:01 use speedhacks Nov 14 18:19:08 the fun is writing plugins that do interesting things with information, not writing bot basics ;) Nov 14 18:19:34 fysa, but the bot basics doesn't take many minutes to make Nov 14 18:19:46 I suppose. I prefer 0. Nov 14 18:20:15 too many things on my todo lists to waste time on that.. Nov 14 18:20:35 I could probably make a hello world bot in under 3 minutes Nov 14 18:20:40 and then building on that is easy Nov 14 18:20:46 ok, do it :P Nov 14 18:21:18 but it sounds pretty boring. Nov 14 18:22:02 I've already found something much more exciting. ;) Nov 14 18:22:03 http://www.chatbothub.com/ Nov 14 18:23:22 http://www.pandorabots.com/botmaster/en/home Nov 14 18:23:22 heh Nov 14 18:24:30 I don't know. 10 years ago I would have been excited at making a simple bot.. but life is too busy now and if I'm going to spend time creating something, it has to be useful and ultimately save me more time/effort than I put into it. Nov 14 18:25:05 fysa, I wouldn't be making it from scratch of course, I would be using reusable perl modules Nov 14 18:25:25 like POE::Component::IRC Nov 14 18:26:17 I'm gonna go buy a burger, back later Nov 14 18:26:21 mm Nov 14 18:30:03 yay the shyhusker one was the one i had before Nov 14 18:31:42 * Tak using xchat-ruby to do botlike things Nov 14 18:34:22 You and your Ruby Nov 14 18:34:28 You're getting worse than me. Nov 14 18:34:42 * alterego hides his ruby source porn magazine. Nov 14 18:35:15 * Tak plots to steal alterego's magazine Nov 14 18:35:20 NO! Nov 14 18:35:24 I mean .. What magazine? Nov 14 18:35:47 hey - I was using that plugin before I ever installed ruby on the device Nov 14 18:37:33 :) Nov 14 18:37:59 Uh oh .. Nov 14 18:38:03 hey guys ... i am trying to compile kryptpad for chinook. but ./configure just creates a makefile which does nothing Nov 14 18:38:09 My charger cable is a bit dodgy me thinks .. Nov 14 18:39:32 alterego: does maemo-ruby work on new os2008? Nov 14 18:40:56 L0cutus, i wrote an email to the author of the port but didn't get an answer yet Nov 14 18:41:42 but i am sure it will even if you have to wait 2 weeks ... Nov 14 18:42:02 brb Nov 14 18:42:05 qos, I'm right here ;) Nov 14 18:42:09 lol Nov 14 18:42:11 L0cutus, some of it does. Nov 14 18:42:16 Some of it doesn't. Nov 14 18:42:24 do you run 'make' after that qos? ;) Nov 14 18:42:34 alterego, so... where is my mail? :) Nov 14 18:42:41 qos, lost? Nov 14 18:42:45 pupnik, sure Nov 14 18:42:46 :) Nov 14 18:42:53 I'm not sure. I'll check. Nov 14 18:43:01 When did you send it? Nov 14 18:43:56 ohh, there is an error after during ./configure ... look here: http://pastebin.ca/773691 Nov 14 18:43:57 alterego: can you re-give me your website to download it ? Nov 14 18:44:09 maemo.rubyx.co.uk Nov 14 18:44:51 I've ported the interpreter. But not the hildon, osso conic ... extensions. Nov 14 18:45:00 I had some issues getting them to compile in scratchbox. Nov 14 18:45:04 But I'm working on it :P Nov 14 18:45:38 The next release will also have desktop plugins :) Nov 14 18:46:07 great :) Nov 14 18:46:29 alterego, hmm... i was very tired when i sent it. i hope i hit the send button ;) Nov 14 18:46:36 :) Nov 14 18:46:48 qos, when did you send it? Nov 14 18:46:56 Or when did you think you sent it ;) Nov 14 18:47:13 some days ago ... not more than 7 Nov 14 18:47:24 Hmm .. Well I didn't get it. Nov 14 18:47:34 I might of accidentally deleted it. Nov 14 18:47:37 are you both talking about ruby-maemo? Nov 14 18:47:41 Yeah Nov 14 18:49:09 are there some guys with good tips about my scratchbox compiling problem? ./configure stops with http://pastebin.ca/773691 Nov 14 18:52:09 qos: update intltool Nov 14 18:52:15 like the error suggest Nov 14 18:53:16 b0unc3, "apt-cache show intltool | grep -i version" gives "Version: 0.35.0-3" Nov 14 18:53:28 b0unc3, it seems to be high enough Nov 14 18:54:28 line 3 sounds like the .in file doesn't exist Nov 14 18:55:43 though the "found" on the next line might mean it was found elsewhere Nov 14 18:55:47 lardman, so? i can't handle this error Nov 14 18:56:16 what are you compiling? Nov 14 18:56:40 kryptpad Nov 14 18:56:54 and does this ./intltool-update.in exist? Nov 14 18:57:28 the error message may be caused by something other than the version of intltool, i.e. the fact the .in file isn't there for some reason Nov 14 18:57:45 no, i don't think so. but it wasn't in the source package Nov 14 18:58:27 qos: have you executed ./autogen.sh ? Nov 14 18:58:32 Neat, blogger can make remote blogs. Nov 14 18:59:14 that was the first i did Nov 14 19:00:07 b0unc3, see here: http://pastebin.ca/773710 Nov 14 19:01:08 line 16 said intltoolize not found... maybe this cause the error.. Nov 14 19:01:09 I'm setting me up a maemo blog. Nov 14 19:01:16 Though I'm not sure how often I'll use it. Nov 14 19:01:27 I've never had a blog before .. Nov 14 19:02:38 hmm ... it seems to be part of intltool package. but the command itself isn't installed or availible Nov 14 19:03:01 the wonders of debian packaging within scratchbox ;) Nov 14 19:03:54 lardman, ok :) so... outside scratchbox there is intltoolize. can i use it in scratchbox somehow? Nov 14 19:05:15 qos: I'd try to install it from source if possible - using the debian tools Nov 14 19:05:37 presumably it complained that you didn't have it when you started the build and you used -d to ignore it? Nov 14 19:05:50 lardman, could you explain that? do you mean to crosscompile it? Nov 14 19:06:14 lardman, i dont think that you mean that ;) Nov 14 19:06:26 yes, though I see that chinook at least has it pre-installed (intltools) Nov 14 19:06:58 I'm not sure how to make an x86 (outside) scratchbox tool available within it Nov 14 19:07:40 has anyone tried using the new DT_GNU_HASH binutils and the corresponding glibc patches in scratchbox for a build and a test run of hello world ? Nov 14 19:07:54 I did see this http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@maemo.org/msg06019.html Nov 14 19:07:57 but nothing since. Nov 14 19:08:24 qos: does apt-cache search intltools show that it is installed? Nov 14 19:08:56 qos: I don;t know the command to show the files in a package, might be worth checking if intltoolize is somewhere not in the path Nov 14 19:09:18 lardman, i am checking this right now Nov 14 19:09:47 qos: dpkg -L intltool Nov 14 19:10:59 hmm, says it's not installed to me, but apt-cache says it's there - does apt-cache list the available packages? Nov 14 19:11:11 damn, i know where my error was. i thought just because "apt-cache show intltool | grep Version" shows the right version that it is already installed. stupid mistake ... :( Nov 14 19:11:35 debian packaging is all greek to me Nov 14 19:11:36 my n800/os2008 has forgotten it has buttons (again) - easy to reproduce, lock it, unlock it, hey presto - no buttons! :) Nov 14 19:11:45 milhouse: works for me Nov 14 19:11:55 actually - lock it, unlock it, lock it againt (then no buttons which is a real bitch) Nov 14 19:12:07 ah, let me see then Nov 14 19:12:47 Just use softpoweroff Nov 14 19:12:51 A new error, a new fun: "No package 'hildon-libs' found" Nov 14 19:13:06 i think this is because of the api change of chinook Nov 14 19:13:07 nope, works for me, done it a few times in a row now Nov 14 19:13:23 lardman, works for me too Nov 14 19:13:25 lardman: hmmm... just rebooted gonna have to play some more Nov 14 19:13:44 aha Nov 14 19:13:56 lock, unlock, lock, unlock, lock (then you're fcked) Nov 14 19:14:05 try that Nov 14 19:14:08 works for me Nov 14 19:14:12 i'm rebooting again now... Nov 14 19:14:14 lol Nov 14 19:14:38 hello everyone, can i get to download the vmware or xen/qemu/kvm images of the Chinook ? please guide Nov 14 19:15:17 TPC - "works for you" does this mean your N800 doesn't forget it has buttons? Nov 14 19:15:25 milhouse, did it. nothing. Nov 14 19:15:26 s/you/me/ Nov 14 19:15:26 milhouse meant: TPC - "works for me" does this mean your N800 doesn't forget it has buttons? Nov 14 19:15:43 milhouse, when you installed OS2008 did you have it keep your backup? Nov 14 19:15:46 my n800 doesn't forget his buttons Nov 14 19:15:57 or did you start fresh? Nov 14 19:16:14 fysa - no Nov 14 19:16:48 man this OS2008 interface is so much better. Nov 14 19:16:49 milhouse, yep, thats what it means Nov 14 19:17:46 maybe microb needs to be running... i just booted, couldn't get it to forget it's buttons (locked/unlocked about 5 times in a row) then fired up microb and guess what? no buttons! Nov 14 19:18:30 It's nice that the Application Manager keeps your place now. Nov 14 19:18:50 nope nothing to do with microb - just booted again, no apps running and it forgot it's buttons on the third unlock Nov 14 19:18:59 I notice earlier there were vm images available of the sdk or sandbox env. are those around still ? Nov 14 19:19:05 some wierdness going on Nov 14 19:19:20 i wonder if i should report this as a bug? Nov 14 19:19:33 milhouse, can't reproduce it with microb either Nov 14 19:19:42 i don't think microb is a factor Nov 14 19:19:51 i've only installed sshd (server) Nov 14 19:19:58 cool, app manager gets you to sort out dodgy repos now Nov 14 19:20:02 thanks Nokia :) Nov 14 19:20:09 I'd try flashing again from scratch first.. Nov 14 19:20:16 milhouse, I'm not sure if you should be reporting a bug when you're not running an official version of the software :P Nov 14 19:20:39 check dmesg? Nov 14 19:20:40 TPC - exactly which is why I asked :) Nov 14 19:20:53 then again it would be bad if OS2008 for N800 was released with this bug Nov 14 19:21:26 (someone else reported it here earlier) Nov 14 19:21:30 I'd not report it to be honest Nov 14 19:21:42 O_o Nov 14 19:22:00 maybe someone from Nokia is reading this and can pass the word along if necessary :) Nov 14 19:22:24 We shouldn't even be using OS2008 :P Nov 14 19:22:34 it's the kind of thing that would be tested (I assume) and you're running a non-official firmware.... Nov 14 19:22:59 lardman - true but you don't get it on your device, i get it mine, so possibly it could slip through Nov 14 19:23:13 s/it mine/it on mine/ Nov 14 19:23:13 milhouse meant: lardman - true but you don't get it on your device, i get it on mine, so possibly it could slip through Nov 14 19:23:14 * dieman wonders out loud: how many hours (days?) to n810 Nov 14 19:23:45 Well my blog is set up .. Now what should I write about? :/ Nov 14 19:23:55 any old crap, most people do Nov 14 19:23:55 write something about your blog. Nov 14 19:23:55 KevinVerma: yes, - see internettablettalk.com there is a thread there on this (vmware dev environment) Nov 14 19:24:02 :) Nov 14 19:24:06 Maybe a ruby-maemo roadmap. Nov 14 19:24:11 That would be a nice introduction :) Nov 14 19:24:31 niteOwl2, thanks i'll try to digg out Nov 14 19:25:05 niteOwl2, someone asked for qemu images on the list today i guess, i am much interested in that but vmware images will work for now Nov 14 19:25:07 battery meter is more accurate now? Nov 14 19:25:10 thanks Nov 14 19:25:13 KevinVerma: Shouldn't be hard - I think it was recent - perhaps the last week or so. Nov 14 19:25:25 showed almost totally full earlier, but now has one bar Nov 14 19:25:25 KevinVerma: No problem Nov 14 19:25:32 qemu can run vmware images Nov 14 19:25:33 after updating. that's a good thing. Nov 14 19:25:35 I think Nov 14 19:26:15 wumpus: you about? Nov 14 19:26:22 TPC, right read on someone's blog discussion there is a procedure i don't know of yet Nov 14 19:26:24 wumpus: insmod: error inserting 'pvr.ko': -1 Invalid module format Nov 14 19:27:59 invalid format.. hmm, that's even worse than missing symbols, means the architecture is wrong Nov 14 19:28:16 drat! Nov 14 19:28:29 as in arm vs armel? Nov 14 19:28:55 TPC, internet is mazing, all you need is search - this might do - http://www.virtualizationdaily.com/archives/73_how-to-convert-a-vmware-virtual-appliance-to-work-with-parallels.html Nov 14 19:29:01 amazing :) Nov 14 19:29:24 I think so Nov 14 19:30:17 ah, I stripped it, dmesg says "pvr: module has no symbols (stripped?)" Nov 14 19:30:40 Not so sure about having to hold the stylus on the screen to stop menu's from closing .. Nov 14 19:30:48 Hi all, followed instructions on pidgin.maemo.org but can't get libgnutls13 package to come up in package manager, searched on maemo hackers repo http://maemo-hackers.org/apt/dists/bora/main/binary-armel/Packages and there's libgnutls11 in there but that doesn't seem to come up in package manager either, any ideas? Nov 14 19:30:54 is there a virtual machine for OS2008 SDK yet? Nov 14 19:30:59 if so, could someone link me? Nov 14 19:31:11 final release that is, I can only find for the beta Nov 14 19:31:15 TPC: I just upgrade the beta one.. Nov 14 19:31:16 ssh is soooo slow, I wonder if this is the effect of super-duper power saving Nov 14 19:31:21 evening Nov 14 19:31:52 lardman: Check if it stays in 165000 mode.. Nov 14 19:31:56 Not slow on my device. Nov 14 19:32:03 wumpus: With the unstripped version I get "pvr: version magic '2.6.14.7-omap2 ARMv6 gcc-3.4' should be '2.6.21-omap1 mod_unload ARMv6 '" Nov 14 19:33:14 forget that Nov 14 19:33:14 <_Monkey> gratz|home: I forgot that Nov 14 19:33:25 it doesn't come up in the list, just is a dep of pidgin Nov 14 19:33:34 and i pasted wrong link, wasn't the bora dist Nov 14 19:33:35 cheers cya Nov 14 19:34:05 lardman: that looks better Nov 14 19:34:49 btw, how do i put something tpo repository.maemo.org/extras? Nov 14 19:35:23 wumpus: looks like modprobe has more ignore options Nov 14 19:37:07 is it possible to modprobe from a given file rather than letting it search? Nov 14 19:38:16 not that I know, but yeah just copy it to /lib/modules/ hmm, isn't that mounted in the initfs, or can I just create the directory? Nov 14 19:39:50 I think you can just copy the file there, yes Nov 14 19:40:07 Hmm .. Picasa only has 1G of storage. Nov 14 19:40:12 I suppose that's not _that_ bad .. Nov 14 19:40:26 then do depmod -a and modprobe should find it Nov 14 19:40:50 hmm, no depmod Nov 14 19:42:14 right, getting somewhere Nov 14 19:42:22 ./modprobe --force-vermagic pvr Nov 14 19:42:39 short flood: Nov 14 19:42:43 [30470.945312] pvr: no version magic, tainting kernel. Nov 14 19:42:43 [30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_bus_write_config_dword Nov 14 19:42:43 [30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_find_slot Nov 14 19:42:44 [30470.945312] pvr: Unknown symbol __arch_copy_from_user Nov 14 19:42:44 [30470.953125] pvr: Unknown symbol pci_bus_read_config_dword Nov 14 19:42:45 [30470.953125] pvr: Unknown symbol __arch_copy_to_user Nov 14 19:43:03 lardman: That doesn't look all that bad.. Nov 14 19:43:24 no, vaguely hopeful Nov 14 19:43:47 No weird non_descriptive symbols. Nov 14 19:44:00 anyway, got to go for a bit, if anyone has any thoughts please let me know, will read my backlog in a while Nov 14 19:45:17 scrollbars are still too small. Nov 14 19:48:02 hm, seems it has no pci symbols Nov 14 19:48:07 what does maemo use for its GTK web browsing widget? gtkmozembed? gtkhtml? webkit? Nov 14 19:48:09 which makes sense as the device has no pci Nov 14 19:48:40 wrap it and provide fake symbols? Nov 14 19:48:54 but what to provide instead? Nov 14 19:48:59 ywwg, the web browser or help system? Nov 14 19:49:04 not that I have any idea how to wrap a driver Nov 14 19:49:05 looks like it will assume the device is on the pci bus Nov 14 19:49:21 alterego: I need to embed html in my application, so... I guess the web browser? Nov 14 19:49:32 The web browser uses Gecko. Nov 14 19:49:48 If you want to embed HTML in your app you should use GtkMozEmbed or gtkhtml Nov 14 19:49:49 wumpus: you think, it's not just that the kernel it was compiled for happens to have those symbols exported? Nov 14 19:50:00 MozEmbed isn't installed by default though. Nov 14 19:50:21 alterego: my app is python anyway, so there's a lot not installed by default :/ Nov 14 19:50:36 wumpus: or do modules only list symbols they use? Nov 14 19:50:43 ywwg, I sure Python has gtkhtml bindings .. Nov 14 19:51:34 alterego: yes I know. I'm just trying to figure out what'll work best on the platform. Nov 14 19:51:41 lardman: there is a faint chance that it also looks somewhere else, but if it needs pci bindings it uses them Nov 14 19:52:35 ywwg, gtk html Nov 14 19:52:47 As long as your needs aren't too great. Nov 14 19:52:55 alterego: hm, I was afraid of that :/ Nov 14 19:53:05 Why were you affraid of it? Nov 14 19:53:21 alterego: I do support gtkhtml but it's nowhere near as nice as the moz version. gtkhtml has a lot of issues Nov 14 19:53:24 Is there something wrong with libgtkhtml? Nov 14 19:53:41 Well use MozEmbed then! Nov 14 19:54:02 Which .. _is_ actually included in 2008 .. Nov 14 19:54:11 (my mistake) Nov 14 19:54:13 alterego: oh Nov 14 19:54:14 lardman: the easiest way to wrap the driver would be to make a module that provides those symbols itself Nov 14 19:54:30 wumpus: indeed Nov 14 19:54:32 alterego: do I need a special package for it? or is it on by default? Nov 14 19:54:41 It's on by default. Nov 14 19:54:52 alterego: oh that's perfect then Nov 14 19:55:57 only a few pci related names: http://pastebin.ca/773790 Nov 14 19:56:12 alterego: where did you find out it's installed by default? I'm still learning the SDK and the site and all Nov 14 19:56:24 ywwg, you'll have to work out how to get the dev libraries though. Nov 14 19:56:32 ah Nov 14 19:56:33 ywwg, I saw it in /usr/lib Nov 14 19:57:02 alterego: I don't see it in mine. I do have gtkhtml, but no gtkmozembed Nov 14 19:57:13 The browser isn't installed ;) Nov 14 19:57:35 Which is by default in OS2008 Nov 14 19:58:34 wumpus: the pepperpad driver also has 00003c94 T HostPCIReadDword & 00003ca8 T HostPCIWriteDword but nothing else Nov 14 19:58:52 Hi ! Nov 14 19:59:17 someone have already try to dev python hildon-home applet ? Nov 14 19:59:45 the only example i ve found on the net, import a 'hildondesktop' lib Nov 14 19:59:57 lardman|afk: I don't get it, why would some omap devices have pci and not others Nov 14 20:00:14 but when i try to import 'hildondestop' in ipython the lib isn't found Nov 14 20:00:15 khertan, there are examples in the maemo svn .. But don't ask me where. Nov 14 20:00:52 lol it s the problem Nov 14 20:00:57 i can't find anyone Nov 14 20:01:04 It's in the SVN! Nov 14 20:01:06 branches Nov 14 20:01:09 somewhere. Nov 14 20:01:17 yes but there is no search :) Nov 14 20:01:42 Have you not heard of Google? Nov 14 20:02:15 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbugencontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12013&contentId=4581 Nov 14 20:02:26 yes but google isn't my friend Nov 14 20:02:40 i think i don't have the right keyword Nov 14 20:03:05 https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/branches/maemo-af-desktop/example-plugins/src/pythonhome.py Nov 14 20:03:18 it s what i get ... but don't work Nov 14 20:03:33 Hmm .. It's moved. Nov 14 20:04:11 hey guys Nov 14 20:06:36 Can someone tell me how can I get the n800 to work over a phone on bluetooth, after I've finished the initial setup Nov 14 20:06:43 there is no wizard for it anymore Nov 14 20:07:12 cbx33, goto your control panel Nov 14 20:07:21 ok Nov 14 20:07:22 cbx33, then add a new internet connection. Nov 14 20:07:26 so ... if someone find example ... Nov 14 20:07:37 don't hesitate to email me Nov 14 20:08:57 alterego, is it mobile operator setup wizard? Nov 14 20:09:05 Yes Nov 14 20:09:07 ahhh Nov 14 20:09:08 I guess that'll do it Nov 14 20:09:11 ok see there's no icon :p Nov 14 20:09:38 hmmm Nov 14 20:09:39 no Nov 14 20:09:43 that just setup Nov 14 20:09:48 the mobile operator..... Nov 14 20:10:04 ahhhhhhh Nov 14 20:10:06 hang on Nov 14 20:10:43 lardman|afk: but yeah, the device has nothing like an pci bus, or other auto-detect bus, so you'll probably have to pass some i/o address as parameter? I dunno Nov 14 20:10:47 Wow, they've even made the touch screen calibration screen prettier ^_^ Nov 14 20:11:04 alterego, in what? Nov 14 20:11:40 OS2008 Nov 14 20:11:40 <_Monkey> rumour has it OS2008 is really fast Nov 14 20:12:43 is it out yet? Nov 14 20:12:50 IS IT HERE YET? Nov 14 20:12:52 It's out of the bag. Nov 14 20:12:58 But not officially release. Nov 14 20:13:04 out of the bag meaning? Nov 14 20:13:06 available? Nov 14 20:13:11 It's been leaked. Nov 14 20:13:16 oh dear Nov 14 20:13:18 that's not good Nov 14 20:13:37 Depends on the point-of-view. Nov 14 20:13:51 how can it be good? Nov 14 20:13:52 yo :) Nov 14 20:14:03 It allows developers to properly test their applications on the device before the real release. Nov 14 20:14:06 wumpus: I guess I could look to see where those calls are made, but I lack the necessary tools Nov 14 20:14:13 In some ways I think it's a good thing this happened .. Personally .. Nov 14 20:14:54 Of course .. This wont happen again. Nov 14 20:15:16 when it will be out OS2009 ? ;-) Nov 14 20:15:18 As updates in the future will be done by the application manager and flashing wont be required for simple software updates. Nov 14 20:15:53 Does the N800 need a screen protector? If so does it really matter which one gets. Nov 14 20:15:56 That's been leaked too :P Nov 14 20:15:57 ^_^ Nov 14 20:16:22 K`zan, I'd say having a screen protector is a good idea. But no it doesn't matter which one it's up to you. Nov 14 20:16:32 K`zan: i have ordered it forom 'brando' Nov 14 20:16:34 boxwave anti-glare, K`zan. Nov 14 20:16:43 from* Nov 14 20:16:52 alterego, i just think that....well....the people who worked on it will feel really guted Nov 14 20:16:52 alterego: OK, thanks, I'll order one - anti-glare sounds like a good idea. Nov 14 20:17:05 i bought one, just gotta find time to put it on Nov 14 20:17:06 :p Nov 14 20:17:21 "guted" Nov 14 20:17:22 Pft Nov 14 20:17:33 LOL, still don't have one on the Z31, it has enough problems with the digitizer as it is. Nov 14 20:17:45 http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=thomas.swindell&aid=5132781668476280881&iid=5132783158829932610 Nov 14 20:17:50 That'll make you change your mind ;) Nov 14 20:17:54 They should be very proud .. Nov 14 20:18:20 No kidding Nov 14 20:18:21 It really does look beautiful. Nov 14 20:18:28 This is so much cooler than the jump from 2005 to 2006 Nov 14 20:18:29 evenink Nov 14 20:18:37 Hello czr Nov 14 20:18:41 wow Nov 14 20:18:44 it is nice Nov 14 20:18:47 btw, does anyone know whether eero tamminen is on freenode and with which nick? Nov 14 20:18:50 but still Nov 14 20:18:52 hey alterego Nov 14 20:19:01 I can confirm that pypackager work on OS2008 Nov 14 20:19:03 yes ... ! Nov 14 20:19:09 no too bad Nov 14 20:19:16 czr: doesn't irc. but I can drag and drop him to meritähti ;) Nov 14 20:19:42 suihkulokki, hehe. but I don't go to meritahti all that often unless something network/server related breaks at the office :-) Nov 14 20:20:06 suihkulokki, nm though. he just wrote a funny reply to one of my replies on the maemo-devel list. Nov 14 20:20:47 * czr saw openmoko today for the first time Nov 14 20:20:54 Your Buy.com order is on its way - shipped - Hoperfully by Friday :-)!!! Nov 14 20:20:56 does xchat work on os2008 ? Nov 14 20:20:58 I must say, I was impressed (I expected much less) Nov 14 20:21:00 does someone Nov 14 20:21:15 czr, with qtopia or openmoko software? Nov 14 20:21:15 Would LOVE to have xchat for the n800! Nov 14 20:21:25 does someone have already make binding for libglade in os2008 ? Nov 14 20:21:29 teprrr, openmoko. GTA-01 Nov 14 20:21:32 K`zan: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install Nov 14 20:21:35 damn, my keyboard needs serious cleaning. Nov 14 20:21:40 czr, well, gta-01 is hardware thingy ;I Nov 14 20:21:50 teprrr, openmoko on GTA-01. Nov 14 20:21:55 ahh, yes Nov 14 20:21:57 that's what I meant. Nov 14 20:22:14 last time I tried it (it was three weeks ago or more) gsmd used to crash all the time Nov 14 20:22:16 Tak: Thanks, bookmarking it as one of the first things I'll install on it when it gets here :). Nov 14 20:22:22 alterego: i want that background image ! :D Nov 14 20:22:25 could call to my own phone after three reboots :) Nov 14 20:22:32 teprrr, this was running a recent flash. it survived at least couple of calls ;-) Nov 14 20:22:34 with qtopia it worked just fine Nov 14 20:22:43 teprrr, as said, I was expected much less :-) Nov 14 20:22:53 didn't say it was perfect. very very very far from it :-) Nov 14 20:23:08 (very)+ Nov 14 20:23:13 p|, I'll send it to you if you like. Can you accept files? Nov 14 20:23:24 Anyone know how long it might be for the 2007 apps (assuming that is what is on the device) to be ported to 2008? Nov 14 20:23:28 i think yes (i'm on umts) Nov 14 20:23:33 Hang on. Nov 14 20:24:00 K`zan: a fast as you port them =) Nov 14 20:24:13 p|, better to just upload to some webspace :) Nov 14 20:24:16 lol Nov 14 20:24:26 p|, http://alterego.freeshell.org/desert_island.jpg Nov 14 20:24:27 ok :) Nov 14 20:24:30 :-), ok, Hopefully the SDK will run under fedora, if not I can backpedal to deb4 :-). Nov 14 20:24:50 ok, time to upgrade to os2008 for my n800 ;) Nov 14 20:24:52 suihkulokki, can I use madeira instead? although I'm slightly worried that alko will go on strike too. what will then happen to all the porting business? Nov 14 20:25:07 Probably faster now with OS2008 leaked. Nov 14 20:25:43 i've read about problems with browser on so2008 ? Nov 14 20:25:48 Wow, immersion, get to figure out the device when it gets here and an sdk too :-) LOL. Nov 14 20:26:18 so is 2008 available from somewhere? Nov 14 20:26:21 czr: madeira? =) Nov 14 20:26:21 I've had one crash over the past 20 hours or so, p|. Nov 14 20:26:24 is it the RC release? Nov 14 20:27:05 It's a leaked release Nov 14 20:27:15 I can't imagine that they didn't see this coming. Nov 14 20:27:31 Can't say I've seen a problem. Nov 14 20:27:35 The vkb is annoying though. Nov 14 20:27:39 suihkulokki, joo. port-viinin variantti mita valmistetaan madeiran saarella. hitto et meni hukkaan toiki vitsi :-) Nov 14 20:27:41 oh? Nov 14 20:27:44 When using forms but that's always been true. Nov 14 20:27:47 how is it annoying? Nov 14 20:27:53 is it better than the last one? Nov 14 20:27:58 wumpus: that dev board has a pci-emulator on it Nov 14 20:27:59 * cbx33 uses the vbk Nov 14 20:28:01 suihkulokki, oh, sry, just switched from an -fi channel back here. /me is slightly tired. Nov 14 20:28:16 do we have an anticipated os2008 release date? Nov 14 20:28:23 cbx33, soon? Nov 14 20:28:31 hah Nov 14 20:28:38 December seems to be what they're saying. Nov 14 20:28:49 I am running it today, soon enough? Nov 14 20:29:25 The select background dialog seems a little flaky. Nov 14 20:29:28 :P Nov 14 20:29:29 check out cellwriter running on KDE on n800 2008OS Nov 14 20:29:39 It'll freeze everything up about every 3rd time I use it. Nov 14 20:29:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11726&goto=newpost Nov 14 20:30:12 suihkulokki, I will now have to prepare another badly fitting joke. Nov 14 20:30:49 czr, yup, qtopia was quite nice on it. could send photos via bt from my phone to it and crop the images and so Nov 14 20:30:52 and even calling worked ;) Nov 14 20:31:06 KDE runs on the N800????????????????? Nov 14 20:31:09 teprrr, not bad. didn't know that it worked that well. Nov 14 20:31:11 where the hell have I been Nov 14 20:31:12 need to test those more when I get a copy of that phone later on Nov 14 20:31:22 cbx33, or what have you smoked :-) Nov 14 20:31:31 as a matter of general interest, are there any available arm disassemblers? Nov 14 20:31:31 kde != qtopia. n800 != what we were talking about :-) Nov 14 20:31:33 I personally think Maemo looks a _lot_ nicer than KDE. Nov 14 20:31:53 czr: huonosti sopivia vitsejä täältä: http://www.hs.fi/fingerpori/ Nov 14 20:31:54 lardman|afk, what's wrong with objdump -d? Nov 14 20:31:59 What was the model of that apple BT keyboard that worked so well? Nov 14 20:32:05 czr I know that Nov 14 20:32:16 czr: sounds ok, I'm too used to the dsp tools Nov 14 20:32:20 suihkulokki, heh. not you too. I have to suffer through those at the office as it is. we have a nice girl that tortures me with them occasionally. Nov 14 20:32:42 K`zan, there are only two and they both work fine. ;) Nov 14 20:33:15 GeneralAntilles: Thankee Sir! Notice that batteries are inexpensive enough for this too. Cool :). Nov 14 20:33:41 I'd recommend the iGo/ThinkOutside for the portability if you only have cash for one keyboard. Nov 14 20:34:04 suihkulokki, these are so much better: http://xkcd.com/340/ Nov 14 20:35:03 alterego, I'd prefer qt over gtk. coding qt is so much nicer :P Nov 14 20:35:06 I see the BT keyboard comes with a one button mouse, does that work with the n800? Nov 14 20:35:07 hah Nov 14 20:35:20 Not really, no. Nov 14 20:35:27 teprrr, I disagree but whatever Nov 14 20:35:36 alterego, ++ Nov 14 20:35:38 Ah, OK, not really a problem, but it could be nice :) Nov 14 20:35:41 meh @ qt Nov 14 20:35:47 alterego, yup, personal preference, just like comparing qt's outlook to gtk one Nov 14 20:35:52 Thanks for all the help / info here - MUCH appreciated! Nov 14 20:35:57 s/outlook/outfit/ :) Nov 14 20:36:11 any library that requires a precompiler... Nov 14 20:36:11 wumpus: not sure if they ought to appear, but there are no calls to the pci functions (HostPCIReadDword & HostPCIWriteDword). The other pci bits and bobs are called within these functions Nov 14 20:36:19 where is OS2008 X-Chat? Nov 14 20:36:34 are there any custom kernel modules for the n800 Nov 14 20:36:36 fysa, on garage perhaps? or perhaps no one has ported it yet Nov 14 20:36:47 suihkulokki, 336, 329 and finally 327. favourites from xkcd (recent ones, the really good ones are older) Nov 14 20:36:48 didn't see xchat on garage. let me check again. Nov 14 20:37:00 lardman, argh, you keep highlightening me the word HostPCI has the word TPC in it Nov 14 20:37:02 :P Nov 14 20:37:24 sorry :) Nov 14 20:37:26 Hahahah Nov 14 20:37:43 hehe Nov 14 20:38:13 KDE358 QT338 Nov 14 20:38:56 not qtopia Nov 14 20:40:03 penguinbait, how does kde run on 2008 compared to 2007? Nov 14 20:40:26 lardman: curious Nov 14 20:40:32 better Nov 14 20:40:34 :) Nov 14 20:40:43 lardman: does it have any other symbols that signify hardware detection some other way? Nov 14 20:40:49 really? why? Nov 14 20:41:17 I wonder *how* it accesses the device, how it finds it Nov 14 20:42:00 I'm just reading the asm for the init function Nov 14 20:42:02 Is there a preferred distro to run the SDK(s) under? Nov 14 20:42:05 ok Nov 14 20:42:09 penguinbait, does it run well? Nov 14 20:42:17 like as fast as the native environment? Nov 14 20:43:09 wumpus: God knows, too late in the evening to be reading assembly Nov 14 20:43:23 no, I dont think so, it uses much more memory Nov 14 20:43:29 penguinbait, ahh Nov 14 20:43:33 but it is completely useable Nov 14 20:43:54 so do people who've gotten the os2008 have an n810 with which to nab the serial number then? Nov 14 20:43:58 penguinbait, cool Nov 14 20:44:06 are the rumours about the processor overclock true? Nov 14 20:44:18 kde4 will be interesting Nov 14 20:44:23 lardman: idd Nov 14 20:44:32 as its supposed to have a lower memory footprint than kde3 Nov 14 20:44:43 really? Nov 14 20:44:59 what rumors Nov 14 20:45:16 I can not get QT 4.3 to compile Nov 14 20:45:18 yet !! Nov 14 20:45:19 too bad there isn't nice installer for it. or a flash Nov 14 20:45:32 cbx33, its not technically being overclocked Nov 14 20:45:32 that the os2008 overclocks the proc faster than before? Nov 14 20:45:33 heah how does nokia make a flash binary.. is that something we can do too? Nov 14 20:45:35 Some day, perhaps a few months Nov 14 20:45:36 ok Nov 14 20:45:40 but you know what I mean Nov 14 20:45:40 cbx33, OS2007 was underclocking it Nov 14 20:45:48 to save battery Nov 14 20:45:49 yes its runnning faster CPU clock speed Nov 14 20:45:57 Well, sometimes. Nov 14 20:45:57 OS2008 is bringing it up to its real speed, since they are saving battery some other ways instead Nov 14 20:45:57 <_Monkey> somebody said sometimes was frustating Nov 14 20:46:06 Mostly, we have CPU throttling now. Nov 14 20:46:27 is it.....oh man.......I'm in two minds whether to try finding os2008 Nov 14 20:46:48 hardware limits: 165 MHz - 400 MHz Nov 14 20:46:48 available frequency steps: 165 MHz, 266 MHz, 330 MHz, 400 MHz Nov 14 20:47:04 cbx33, its not binary compatible Nov 14 20:47:11 cbx33, most software hasn't been compiled for OS2008 yet Nov 14 20:47:16 ahh ok Nov 14 20:47:23 cbx33, so if you try it don't expect any third party apps to work yet Nov 14 20:47:34 * cbx33 will probably wait.... Nov 14 20:47:40 give it a few weeks and most software should have been moved over Nov 14 20:47:55 it'll be a nice christmas present then Nov 14 20:48:12 many things will work out the box, and they are still binary compatible Nov 14 20:48:18 just changed some libs Nov 14 20:48:22 ahhh Nov 14 20:48:49 Thinking of setting up the sdk(s?) under {some distro} under vmware... Nov 14 20:49:04 scratchbox? Nov 14 20:49:05 <_Monkey> scratchbox is a cross-compilation toolkit for maemo application development. Homepage: http://www.scratchbox.org/ Maemo 3.x (bora/N800) tutorial: http://qurl.org/yN Maemo 2.2 (gregale/770) tutorial: http://qurl.org/zN A walkthrough for 3.x: http://qurl.org/0O Scratchbox Downloads: http://qurl.org/1O Nov 14 20:49:23 Heah long as i can get pidgin xchat ill be happy Nov 14 20:49:32 install from the maemo scratchbox/sdk scripts, its very easy Nov 14 20:49:47 if you're on x86 that is, if you're running 64 bit you're out of luck :( Nov 14 20:49:47 HAHAHAHA......I just clicked on the link and realised it's my blog Nov 14 20:51:21 that's hilarious Nov 14 20:52:48 ok, my n800 is now OS2008 based :) Nov 14 20:53:00 p| howz it look? Nov 14 20:53:13 _VERY_ fine :) Nov 14 20:54:21 beautiful bubbles :) Nov 14 20:54:30 ugly Nov 14 20:54:31 hehe Nov 14 20:54:57 I like the windows style change, but the Icons are just ugly Nov 14 20:55:14 the tray icons are *way* better. Nov 14 20:55:18 man a couple of weeks is agony Nov 14 20:55:24 penguinbait, for day to day usage on your IT, do you use kde or the default window manager? Nov 14 20:55:29 also the interface in general Nov 14 20:55:36 the entire interface is much more professional and less .. 12 year old. Nov 14 20:55:39 I use KDE Nov 14 20:55:45 lol Nov 14 20:56:23 oooh I'm all excited Nov 14 20:57:13 now we lack only mmc2 boot :) Nov 14 20:58:19 Which bluetooth is good for N800? Nov 14 20:58:29 GPS is mean Nov 14 20:58:56 Shit missing whole words :) Nov 14 20:59:00 i-blue 737 Nov 14 20:59:02 pc_speaker: i've heard good things about the iblue 737 and 757 Nov 14 20:59:10 i-blue is what I have Nov 14 20:59:11 also the holux 1000 or 12000? Nov 14 20:59:15 1200 Nov 14 20:59:15 Thanks :) Nov 14 20:59:25 seems gps does work :) Nov 14 20:59:34 Will google to check them now :) Nov 14 20:59:34 penguinbait: it seems the majority of people with n800s have an iblue right? Nov 14 21:00:00 i understand that the iblue has a useful autooff feature Nov 14 21:00:06 It was the first confirmed working on 770, that why I bought it Nov 14 21:00:20 I have been very happy with my i-blue Nov 14 21:00:21 the holux may be smaller though, i'm not sure Nov 14 21:00:35 penguinbait: any bugs or nitpicks at all? Nov 14 21:00:51 i'm wondering how the size is Nov 14 21:01:01 And what about the maps? Western Europe available? Nov 14 21:01:56 Nope, the i-blue has never given me a problem. The only thing I would say is if you want to use it in windows/laptop also you may want another device, I am not sure if that works? Nov 14 21:02:00 is it 'normal' that control panel info say 2 lines ? Nov 14 21:02:20 It's about 1/2 the size of my (empty :P) tri-fold wallet and the same thickness. Nov 14 21:05:16 penguinbait, you tried using NX yet? Nov 14 21:05:45 NX? Nov 14 21:06:14 its odd, when I cat proc/cpuinfo it shows 160 bogomips Nov 14 21:06:15 iblue? Nov 14 21:06:39 NX = like VNC but way way faster. Nov 14 21:06:40 kinfoenter, shows 388bogomips Nov 14 21:06:48 probably overclocking dynamically Nov 14 21:06:55 No I am using VNC though Nov 14 21:07:04 NX is 100x faster than VNC.. Nov 14 21:07:07 and XRDP Nov 14 21:07:09 and there was an NX client for OS2007, but never tried. Nov 14 21:07:21 KDE over NX may be more responsive than native KDE. Nov 14 21:07:27 Ohhhh is that for phone/ipod. uing any headphones? Nov 14 21:07:30 Just what i neeeed Nov 14 21:07:46 have a nice set of shures to use Nov 14 21:07:47 NX is awesome Nov 14 21:07:55 nx? Nov 14 21:07:56 there is a client for n800? Nov 14 21:07:56 <_Monkey> nx is 100x faster than VNC.. Nov 14 21:07:58 http://www.reviewsforjoomla.com/option,com_smf/Itemid,34/topic,2427.msg11270/ Nov 14 21:08:01 I will look into it, currently I add vncviewer and xvnc server and XRDP to my KDE builds Nov 14 21:08:14 http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX.html Nov 14 21:08:16 though i was sure there was a memory leak in it Nov 14 21:08:33 Has there been any new news on getting TTLS support on the wifi stack? Nov 14 21:09:00 where is the nx client for b800? Nov 14 21:09:03 n800 Nov 14 21:09:34 http://austinche.name/maemo/index.html Nov 14 21:09:39 NX is 100x faster than VNC... Nov 14 21:10:27 NX is efficient enough to let me visit YouTube via Firefox on a LAN server. :) Nov 14 21:10:55 haven't tried on the n800 yet though. Nov 14 21:11:05 apparently it's buggy Nov 14 21:11:10 Tihis garnet VM is sweet, I used this old compiled up palmpilot emulator thing.. really slow.. but this is fast and I was even able to sync all the stuff from gpilotd (and thus all what I had on old palm) Nov 14 21:11:39 Now I know, which calendar I will be using :) Nov 14 21:12:23 So if I compile Kpilot, I wonder if it can sync Nov 14 21:12:24 hehe Nov 14 21:12:58 Tak, did you paste an X-Chat OS2008 link earlier? Nov 14 21:13:10 KDE 3.5.8 has ability to sync with files/GPE/KDEPIM/GoogleCalendar Nov 14 21:13:27 anyone got a link for xterm for os2008? Nov 14 21:13:27 And others, but those are comiled so far Nov 14 21:13:32 NX is faster than a speed of light :) Nov 14 21:13:36 xterm is built in Nov 14 21:13:38 heheh Nov 14 21:13:40 new NX shadow mode is amazing. Nov 14 21:13:45 I thought that, couldn't see it Nov 14 21:13:46 xterm is pre-installed, lardman Nov 14 21:13:49 Utilities Nov 14 21:13:50 shadow mode? Nov 14 21:13:52 its in the utilities menu Nov 14 21:13:52 scroll DOWN Nov 14 21:13:59 I was sure that NX got slower over time Nov 14 21:14:00 hehe, I I had to ask also Nov 14 21:14:06 they just need to mix it with desktopless session Nov 14 21:14:08 ah cool, down arrow, silly me Nov 14 21:14:26 fysa indeed Nov 14 21:14:27 shadow mode is for sharing existing connections with multiple clients Nov 14 21:14:34 My wife returned to me after I started to use NX... Nov 14 21:14:39 desktopless lets you run remote apps as if they were native Nov 14 21:14:49 It healed my dog... Nov 14 21:14:51 :) Nov 14 21:14:52 the mix of the two would mean that I could disconnect from my work session on my desktop Nov 14 21:15:00 fysa do they have desktopless yet? Nov 14 21:15:03 and connect to it from anywhere else Nov 14 21:15:07 ahhhh awesome Nov 14 21:15:13 simultaneously.. Nov 14 21:15:28 so all of my work apps would run on the server, then OS X/windows/N800 KDE could bring them all up. Nov 14 21:15:38 coool Nov 14 21:15:42 http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX.html Nov 14 21:15:49 there are desktopless screenshots here Nov 14 21:15:59 doesn't look like all of it is open source Nov 14 21:15:59 http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX-konqi-in-WinXP-2.png Nov 14 21:16:04 free as in beer. Nov 14 21:16:12 which means that I'm not going to use it Nov 14 21:16:16 your loss. Nov 14 21:16:17 Free beer :) Nov 14 21:16:21 it's 342423424 better than anything else Nov 14 21:16:26 so I could care less :) Nov 14 21:16:39 Believe in NX! Nov 14 21:16:42 I try to be OS where possible Nov 14 21:16:45 vmware may be slower, but its fast enough that I won't sacrafice my integrity to use something else Nov 14 21:16:49 er Nov 14 21:16:51 but NX is sooo much better Nov 14 21:16:52 vnc may be slower* Nov 14 21:17:04 TPC, so you're 100% OS? Nov 14 21:17:06 cbx33, http://www.danka.de/printpro/NX-konqi-in-WinXP-2.png -- Konqueror in that screenshot is running on a remote machine Nov 14 21:17:12 cool Nov 14 21:17:18 cbx33, yes Nov 14 21:17:26 basically, you could run a KDE launchbar that way.. Nov 14 21:17:30 yes Nov 14 21:17:32 and then each app would open in its own window on the desktop. Nov 14 21:17:40 yeh Nov 14 21:17:42 you suspend the session, reboot, reconnect and they all come back in the same place Nov 14 21:17:43 that's in floating mode Nov 14 21:18:01 right, floating mode. we need floating mode mixed with shadow/shared simultaneous sessions. Nov 14 21:18:01 there is another way to do that Nov 14 21:18:12 you can do it with just X11 itself, TPC. Nov 14 21:18:13 its called X11 forwarding over ssh Nov 14 21:18:16 yeh Nov 14 21:18:18 true Nov 14 21:18:19 that's what NX does. Nov 14 21:18:19 or just XDMCP Nov 14 21:18:24 NX uses XDMCP/X11 forwarding. Nov 14 21:18:29 but it's extremely intelligent awesome compression. Nov 14 21:18:32 why would you need NX then? X can do it by itself Nov 14 21:18:37 sdflksdflkfsd Nov 14 21:18:38 god. Nov 14 21:18:39 just pipe it trought zlib or soemthing Nov 14 21:18:48 your mind is rust. Nov 14 21:19:03 "The NX compression technology is really amazing. Can you imagine to have a KDE full desktop session through a GSM datalink connection with 9600 baud? Can you imagine that a remote KDE startup (fully visible to you) may transfer as little as 35 kByte through the wire, if run over an NX connection? (A normal X connection may use as much as 3.5 MByte of data...)." Nov 14 21:19:12 NX is better then viagra! Nov 14 21:19:23 that may be Nov 14 21:19:23 Buy NX cheap! :) Nov 14 21:19:28 but I have 24mbps broadband Nov 14 21:19:31 there are open source servers. Nov 14 21:19:32 not 9600 baud Nov 14 21:19:33 :P Nov 14 21:19:33 .. Nov 14 21:19:49 I'm speechless Nov 14 21:20:03 Miracle... Nov 14 21:20:06 the point is connecting to it via GSM/WiFi on your N800 while traveling. Nov 14 21:20:08 fysa, did you use NX on N800 ? Nov 14 21:20:15 I want to believe... Nov 14 21:20:19 wow i want NX on my 770 Nov 14 21:20:39 not yet. I've been using it on a laptop from hotels and such for business Nov 14 21:20:47 leave my coding session open on my work machine at the office.. Nov 14 21:20:48 fysa, and why would you use a slow expensive wap connection, when there are cheap inexpensive flat-rate 3G connections? Nov 14 21:20:59 fast inexpensive* Nov 14 21:21:02 because even 3G is too slow for VNC. Nov 14 21:21:08 VNC is too slow for LAN dude. Nov 14 21:21:13 nah Nov 14 21:21:13 Interesting .. Nov 14 21:21:16 .. Nov 14 21:21:19 ok, sorry. Nov 14 21:21:22 gtk moz embed is on the device but not in the SDK. Nov 14 21:21:25 3G is way too expensive Nov 14 21:21:27 I found that the Version 2 LG chocolate rocks with the nokia tablets Nov 14 21:21:27 I had to ignore you, TPC. Nov 14 21:21:36 ignore me? Nov 14 21:21:37 I always use vnc to work from home etc.. it's very fast here Nov 14 21:21:54 NX works fast even over pigeon mail... Nov 14 21:21:55 fysa, I use openvpn+vnc and it works over wan, a tad slow but still usable Nov 14 21:22:02 try NX and you'll be amazed Nov 14 21:22:04 usable, but nothing like native speed. Nov 14 21:22:04 I use vnc to help my parents with their computers from time to time over the internet, its not slow Nov 14 21:22:06 works for what I need it for also, althoug I am not trying to run it over DUN Nov 14 21:22:10 NX vs VNC is night-and-day. Nov 14 21:22:21 fysa, last time I looked at NX there was not a line of clear instruction on how to install it (even on a desktop) Nov 14 21:22:24 then again, my connection is quite fast, so I don't really need compression etc Nov 14 21:22:29 yeah, 3.0 is much better. Nov 14 21:22:38 evening all Nov 14 21:22:43 one sec- Nov 14 21:22:48 I'll show you how easy it is to install now. :) Nov 14 21:23:22 Just think about it for a few minutes and it's already installed :)))) Nov 14 21:23:30 http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1 Nov 14 21:23:37 methinks pc_speaker is a shill. Nov 14 21:23:48 # sudo dpkg -i nxclient_3.0.0-84_i386.deb Nov 14 21:23:48 # sudo dpkg -i nxnode_3.0.0-88_i386.deb Nov 14 21:23:48 # sudo dpkg -i nxserver_3.0.0-74_i386.deb Nov 14 21:23:53 that's all. Nov 14 21:24:26 then grab the NX client for Windows or whatever and away you go. Nov 14 21:24:39 fysa would be intereseting to see how it runs over the N800 Nov 14 21:24:51 logs in with the existing user account credentials, ssh-enscapulated efficient X11 forwarding Nov 14 21:24:52 OK I give up. Maybe will try it too... Nov 14 21:25:06 is there a link for nx? Nov 14 21:25:16 definitely worth trying out. free forever. http://www.nomachine.com/select-package.php?os=linux&id=1 Nov 14 21:25:22 The open ssh package is always broken :/ Nov 14 21:25:50 I seem to have to uninstall it everytime I want to update it :/ Nov 14 21:26:11 the difference is between knowing that you're connecting to a remote app versus feeling like it's completely native. Nov 14 21:26:45 Best the former. Nov 14 21:27:19 So Firefox can ate all memory on some other's computer? Great :) Nov 14 21:27:22 that's my next 'computing' goal. to switch entirely to NX-compatible apps so I can work from anywhere/anytime without losing my session. Nov 14 21:27:27 exactly. Nov 14 21:27:30 fysa, by the way, you do know that ssh can do compression all by itself do you? just pass -C to it Nov 14 21:27:47 normal X11 forwarding is useless over the internet without -C because its slow Nov 14 21:27:50 Yeah, ssh compresses. Nov 14 21:27:50 fysa, my only problem was that wine apps don't seem to like working over it Nov 14 21:27:52 TPC, I know you're trying to come up with great alternatives to NX, but there really is none. Nov 14 21:27:55 but with -C its quite acceptable Nov 14 21:28:02 there is a GPL fork. Nov 14 21:28:03 try that. Nov 14 21:28:08 it's a bitch to install, but it works. Nov 14 21:28:13 freenx? Nov 14 21:28:13 "FreeNX" Nov 14 21:28:22 As a beer? Nov 14 21:28:24 you're right there Nov 14 21:28:26 I have no need for an app like that, I'm just trying to figure out whats so great about it Nov 14 21:28:30 it's terrible to intal Nov 14 21:28:36 since from your description I haven't heard anything that X and ssh doesn't already do Nov 14 21:28:40 .. Nov 14 21:28:46 it's a million times faster than X + ssh -C Nov 14 21:28:48 seriously. Nov 14 21:28:50 it's not even close. Nov 14 21:28:59 TPC, can you not just accept that it may actually be faster Nov 14 21:29:01 I have a 4 megabyte/sec server Nov 14 21:29:05 And how do they do this? Nov 14 21:29:07 and gigabit LAN Nov 14 21:29:11 cbx33, sure, I can accept that Nov 14 21:29:13 fysa, downloaded the 3 packages but I cannot find a coherent explanations of what to do with them, in particular what's that client/node/server terminology about? Nov 14 21:29:15 cool Nov 14 21:29:16 ;) Nov 14 21:29:19 just install them, guerby Nov 14 21:29:23 they rely on eachother Nov 14 21:29:31 you have to do them in order Nov 14 21:29:35 there is an Ubuntu NX howto out there if you need it. Nov 14 21:29:36 else they'll complain Nov 14 21:29:36 fysa, ok why they did three packages then? Nov 14 21:29:51 scalability -- you can have machines that multiplex NX connections and do all sorts of crazy things Nov 14 21:30:12 but yeah, I see what you mean. Nov 14 21:30:12 do you work for them or so :P Nov 14 21:30:18 TPC, you ever use Windows Remote Desktop? Nov 14 21:30:21 RDC? Nov 14 21:30:28 you know how much faster RDC is than VNC? Nov 14 21:30:30 fysa, I won't install anything until I find an explanation on what nx installs and setups listening etc :) Nov 14 21:30:34 "sudo yum install nx freenx" isn't all that hard as far as installations go... Nov 14 21:30:42 NX is that much faster than RDC. Nov 14 21:30:46 I've used both, and didn't find rdc anything faster than vnc Nov 14 21:30:53 :))) Nov 14 21:30:56 OK, I give up. Nov 14 21:30:57 over a local network at least Nov 14 21:31:06 fysa, i think it's for the best Nov 14 21:31:08 http://www.nomachine.com/download-package.php?Prod_Id=6 Nov 14 21:31:10 :p Nov 14 21:31:10 read that. Nov 14 21:31:13 install if you like. Nov 14 21:31:16 I have to get back to work.. Nov 14 21:31:31 RDC on Windows uses native controls and don't transfer images over net :))) Nov 14 21:31:41 fysa, you mean rdesktop? Nov 14 21:31:51 I haven't used it myself, but I've seen it being used Nov 14 21:32:45 the thing is that with vnc over the internet I get speeds that are as fast as if it was native if I'm not doing anything heavy on the graphical side (like loading a page in a web browser with lots of pictures or trying to watch a video, which I wouldn't do remotely anyway) Nov 14 21:32:51 but you make it sound like its the slowest thing ever Nov 14 21:33:05 NX is native fast *with* heavy graphics. Nov 14 21:33:12 TPC just think you can do those graphically intensive things on NX Nov 14 21:33:25 but seriously, I'm not here to sell this. Nov 14 21:33:41 VNX with mirroring driver is fast as hell on Windows. Nov 14 21:33:47 fysa, tried it over openvpn? Nov 14 21:33:53 anyway, this is going nowhere Nov 14 21:33:57 we have different opinions Nov 14 21:34:01 well I'm sure even NX is slow over some connections :P Nov 14 21:34:04 lets just accept that and talk about something else :P Nov 14 21:34:21 yeah Nov 14 21:34:24 Nov 14 21:34:24 Yeah, this conversation is boring and I'm not even in it. Nov 14 21:35:20 And please, no more Android today too :) Nov 14 21:35:26 alterego, but NX uses client caching! Nov 14 21:35:29 you are now :-) Nov 14 21:35:41 hm.. now I have an up to date OS2008 scratchbox set up Nov 14 21:35:48 what should I try to compile first? Nov 14 21:35:51 X-Chat. Nov 14 21:35:53 ;) Nov 14 21:35:53 maybe I'll try to get maemo mapper running Nov 14 21:35:55 Grrr .. libreadline isn't in OS2008 Nov 14 21:35:58 well, next time you claim your program is better than anything else on the planet, just come up with benchmarks and stats, then noone can deny :) Nov 14 21:36:02 It's in the SDK but not in 2008 Nov 14 21:36:16 computing is science not religion Nov 14 21:36:21 alterego, link statically :P Nov 14 21:36:35 That's a stupid solution. Nov 14 21:36:35 Sometimes it is religion :))) Nov 14 21:36:37 j0! Nov 14 21:36:42 Stallman for example... Nov 14 21:36:46 this is science. Nov 14 21:36:51 or if you're using emacs :P Nov 14 21:36:56 :))) Nov 14 21:37:23 http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/8477/print Nov 14 21:37:25 pc_speaker: that's more like politics Nov 14 21:37:49 Thinking about it. If I write a nice interactive ruby shell I wont need to use irb .. Nov 14 21:37:59 So readline becomes redundant. Nov 14 21:38:00 "Out I went and installed NX, and I immediately was hooked. The performance was in a completely different league from any other remote X or GUI connection I had seen on Linux." :P Nov 14 21:38:15 Shit not again :) Nov 14 21:38:18 please stop fysa Nov 14 21:38:20 "NX. It is the missing link in reducing traffic between the NX client and the server enough to facilitate a believable low-bandwidth remote GUI experience. It thus created a new X compression technology that is far better than plain ZLIB. " Nov 14 21:38:22 I thought you were dropping this conversation .. Nov 14 21:38:26 http://www.stallman.org/saint.html Nov 14 21:38:26 We finished with it. Nov 14 21:38:32 fysa, please shut up. Nov 14 21:38:41 Science, huh? Nov 14 21:38:43 :))) Nov 14 21:38:58 user blurbs are not performance numbers anyway Nov 14 21:39:14 of course not. Nov 14 21:40:06 Call the cops, he's still here. Nov 14 21:40:47 hum Nov 14 21:41:07 becomeroot and xterm are already included in os2008 Nov 14 21:41:39 What's the problem with Skype in 2008? Nov 14 21:41:53 Says me that it's not ready or something... Nov 14 21:42:00 pc_speaker, yep Nov 14 21:42:06 pc_speaker, its not aviable for 2008 yet Nov 14 21:42:07 not finished Nov 14 21:42:12 Hm... Nov 14 21:42:12 * alterego adds the maemo repository (not extras) to his application catalog Nov 14 21:42:16 but SIP is included :) Nov 14 21:42:19 should be out in a few months Nov 14 21:42:27 And Skype is not on N810 too? Nov 14 21:42:28 I thought there was only one repository. Looks like there are seperate repos for SDK and device .. Nov 14 21:42:35 SIP built-in without needing Gizmo, p? Nov 14 21:42:45 yes Nov 14 21:42:54 perfect. Nov 14 21:43:19 Life is cruel... No Skype for me... Nov 14 21:43:41 Hope it will be with cam support when it will arrive... Nov 14 21:44:03 Just as last Linux version... Nov 14 21:44:06 need xchat... Nov 14 21:45:04 I just changed my CPU speed on the fly Nov 14 21:45:14 Good for you penguinbait Nov 14 21:45:15 unfortunately, it was to lower it Nov 14 21:45:18 hehe Nov 14 21:45:22 it worked though Nov 14 21:45:25 playing around in /sys ? Nov 14 21:45:37 yes /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies Nov 14 21:45:49 Yes, I know all about frequency scaling. Nov 14 21:46:00 how ? Nov 14 21:46:07 echo nnn > etc ? Nov 14 21:46:46 echo powersave > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor Nov 14 21:46:56 The plankton theme is somewhat broken when used on the device. Nov 14 21:47:20 I normally just echo min or max to it :) Nov 14 21:47:26 heh, what's up with retu and tahvo :) Nov 14 21:47:42 conservative ondemand null powersave performance Nov 14 21:49:16 Bingo .. We have readline :) Nov 14 21:50:42 thanks :) Nov 14 21:50:58 in extras? Nov 14 21:51:40 No, the maemo repository used for the SDK. Nov 14 21:51:53 http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free Nov 14 21:51:59 yep yep Nov 14 21:52:03 well if anyone wants to play around, penguinbait.com/CPUFREQ.tar just untar from / Nov 14 21:52:36 penguinbait, make something useful like a control status bar plugin :) Nov 14 21:52:59 So you can dynamically set the frequency governer or select speed :) Nov 14 21:53:20 i vote for it ! :D Nov 14 21:54:27 Mind you, there's not really much point on a 400Mhz arm for doing that .. Nov 14 21:54:28 I still need a battery monitor for KDE Nov 14 21:54:31 :) Nov 14 21:54:34 Unless your battery is _really_ flat ;) Nov 14 21:54:54 I can't believe you bother with KDE on the tablet. Nov 14 21:55:10 thousands of people bother :) Nov 14 21:55:20 will it let me up my mhz to 400, under OS2007} Nov 14 21:55:23 ? Nov 14 21:55:30 I doubt there are thousands of people using KDE on their internet tablets .. Nov 14 21:55:56 using or installing, they downloaded thousands of copies, and I can not count other mirrors Nov 14 21:56:21 It looks so rubbish though .. Nov 14 21:56:27 KDE install instructions were translated into many langauges Nov 14 21:56:38 Looks beautiful to me Nov 14 21:56:39 the null option what does ? Nov 14 21:56:40 OS2008 is _so_ much prettier and practical. Nov 14 21:56:53 didnt try Nov 14 21:56:53 You're bias. Nov 14 21:57:02 So Nov 14 21:57:10 KDE is just like Windows. Nov 14 21:57:23 There is no performance issues with KDE on the tablets? Nov 14 21:57:29 it still looks beautiful to me, as did windowmaker, XFCE, OPENBOX, AFTERSTEP and more Nov 14 21:57:31 Sounds scary... Nov 14 21:57:33 So you can expect me to take your opinion seriously when you're obviously bias P Nov 14 21:57:40 anything , anything, but matchbox Nov 14 21:57:43 ugh! Nov 14 21:58:04 Take my opinion however you like it, I dont get paid Nov 14 21:58:09 its just my opinion Nov 14 21:58:16 KDE on 400MHz ARM is BSDM Nov 14 21:58:17 one thing I noticed is that my n800 takes Sooooo long to boot now Nov 14 21:58:26 Its not like your hurting my market share Nov 14 21:58:39 Heh Nov 14 21:58:44 cbx33: we need to boot from mmc... Nov 14 21:58:51 Hm, I think my n800 boots faster with os2008... Nov 14 21:58:55 it used to be ok Nov 14 21:59:02 * alterego wonders what a full blown gnome desktop would look like on the device. Nov 14 21:59:04 I am booting from mmc on 2008, works great, Thanks Fanoush !! Nov 14 21:59:06 but now it takes at least 30 seconds Nov 14 21:59:15 before we get the loading bar Nov 14 21:59:52 thats odd? Nov 14 21:59:55 Well, lets see if I can get ruby-maemo 0.3.0 working properly on OS2008 Nov 14 21:59:57 mine doesn't Nov 14 21:59:58 penguinbait: does it have updated the thing ?!? Nov 14 22:00:05 yeh it takes a long time now Nov 14 22:00:09 can't wait to reflash Nov 14 22:00:19 what thing? Nov 14 22:00:20 <_Monkey> somebody said thing was that with this new firmware it is not working that way..... Nov 14 22:00:23 Can't be 30s Nov 14 22:00:32 else it would get reset. Nov 14 22:00:40 well it's a long time Nov 14 22:00:47 penguinbait: boot from mmc with os2008 Nov 14 22:00:48 hmmm Nov 14 22:00:48 Are you on speed? Nov 14 22:00:53 Time it and then complain :P Nov 14 22:00:56 * penguinbait slaps cbx33 around a bit with a large trout Nov 14 22:01:01 sorry, Nov 14 22:01:02 Anyway, it's much better under os2008 Nov 14 22:01:05 ok Nov 14 22:01:10 mirc, heh Nov 14 22:01:17 what does it do before the loading bar comes up Nov 14 22:01:38 ok bbiab Nov 14 22:02:07 clean that trout off your face before coming back! Nov 14 22:04:51 alterego, you made me go look again Nov 14 22:05:19 How was the boobtube? Nov 14 22:05:23 KDE366v2, had 1145 downloads in October alone, just from my site Nov 14 22:05:34 GeneralAntilles: me? Nov 14 22:05:37 :P Nov 14 22:05:38 not to count the mirrors Nov 14 22:05:44 GeneralAntilles: Heroes Nov 14 22:05:56 Someone downloaded it 1145 times? Nov 14 22:05:57 Never got into it. Nov 14 22:06:02 Hehe Nov 14 22:06:08 I doubt you have over 1000k unique. Nov 14 22:06:09 hehe Nov 14 22:06:15 it's addictive :) Nov 14 22:06:52 Will it tun KDE4? :) Nov 14 22:06:55 run Nov 14 22:06:56 1000k unique . . . that doesn't work Nov 14 22:06:58 *1k Nov 14 22:07:07 To my point this was first put out in Feruary, and there have been thousands of people install it, whether they kept it running, who know Nov 14 22:07:18 We KNOW you don't have 1,000,000. :P Nov 14 22:07:21 Well .. Looks like ruby-maemo should work fine. Nov 14 22:07:36 I have not been able to compile QT 4.3 successfully Nov 14 22:07:38 yet! Nov 14 22:08:11 Do you know anyone other than you that actually uses it? Nov 14 22:08:20 yes Nov 14 22:08:35 How many? Nov 14 22:08:44 All braves who tried had failed... Nov 14 22:09:10 So rest in peace mighty warriors... Nov 14 22:09:12 :))) Nov 14 22:09:24 I would say I have at least 10 people who beta test everything Nov 14 22:09:53 I am unsure why you are so negative against KDE on tablet, if you dont want to use it fine Nov 14 22:10:00 but it seems to upset you? Nov 14 22:10:00 night chaps, see you on the morrow Nov 14 22:10:02 Cool, we can make custom systemui items that call dbus services :) Nov 14 22:10:06 We're kkidding. Nov 14 22:10:27 I just think that n800 is to slow for KDE experience... Nov 14 22:10:37 I think Alterego is mad about something ? Nov 14 22:10:41 I don't think KDE should be used anywhere ^_^ Nov 14 22:10:54 And the screen in not optimized too... Nov 14 22:10:58 Look it runs way better on my IBM tablet pc, no question Nov 14 22:11:22 AH KDE h8er, I tried gnome first, it wa just a pain Nov 14 22:11:33 Do you do anything other than KDE on the tablets? Nov 14 22:11:34 to compile Nov 14 22:11:44 holywar mode on Nov 14 22:11:53 penguinbait: qt4.3.2 works fine on debian/armel (atleast when tried with webkit) Nov 14 22:11:54 not sure about your question Nov 14 22:12:02 Development work. Nov 14 22:12:13 I am not a developer Nov 14 22:12:20 I am a unix admin :) Nov 14 22:12:32 Oh, one of those :P Nov 14 22:12:33 any monkey can compile packages though :) Nov 14 22:12:37 Sure Nov 14 22:13:00 Alterego, I understand Nov 14 22:13:12 I let some kids play bomber man on my N800 last night at the local pub. They got chocolate in a very hard to clean area of the screen O_O Nov 14 22:13:22 dumbass. :P Nov 14 22:13:30 Unix admins and developers just dont see eye to eye often Nov 14 22:13:34 Just pop the bezel off. Nov 14 22:13:52 penguinbait, UNIX admins don't bother me ;) I do it myself Nov 14 22:13:59 well, most unix developers are unix admins as well Nov 14 22:14:07 GeneralAntilles, how? Nov 14 22:14:08 Exactly why developer bother me Nov 14 22:14:10 :) Nov 14 22:14:10 Is it easy? Nov 14 22:14:16 Yeah Nov 14 22:14:17 so many of them think Nov 14 22:14:19 hehe Nov 14 22:14:21 Just get yourself a jewels screwdriver Nov 14 22:14:39 finagle the 3 tabs under the stand off Nov 14 22:14:45 Meh .. I've got one but can't be bothered with the hassle. Nov 14 22:14:47 Little finicky Nov 14 22:14:51 try to be gentle Nov 14 22:14:55 But it's pretty easy. Nov 14 22:16:24 Interesting .. Nov 14 22:16:33 ruby-maemo 0.3.0 compiled .. Nov 14 22:16:40 * alterego tests Nov 14 22:17:27 Didn't work last time I tried it. Nov 14 22:18:28 penguinbait, can you give me some hints to port this project? http://mumble.sourceforge.net/ Nov 14 22:18:47 qos, set up a scratchbox environment and try to compile Nov 14 22:18:54 if you hit errors try to fix them, then recompile Nov 14 22:18:57 repeat until there are no errors Nov 14 22:18:59 hehe Nov 14 22:19:24 Then Hildonise Nov 14 22:19:28 this is true, these guys here are probably better able to answer your questions than I, I am lowly unix admin :( Nov 14 22:19:29 Then add some new errors... Nov 14 22:19:31 TPC, sounds easy :) but my scratchbox is running. but it starts with that there is no qmake in my scratchbox Nov 14 22:19:45 qos, thats the first error you have to fix then Nov 14 22:19:48 install QT Nov 14 22:19:54 Sounds like an easy one too .. Nov 14 22:20:11 yes... i also had this idea... Nov 14 22:20:26 qos, find out what package has qmake in it and make a package for that first (well, penguinbait told you this time, so you don't have to find out) Nov 14 22:20:49 Wow! Nov 14 22:20:52 Not Gtk errors! Nov 14 22:21:03 Weird. Nov 14 22:21:10 my apt says that it doesn't know qt :( Nov 14 22:21:31 Good for him :) Nov 14 22:21:39 Hmm .. 6 seconds is probably too long for a program start up .. Nov 14 22:21:48 I'll have to work on that some time. Nov 14 22:22:09 sh*t Nov 14 22:22:14 That's not even ruby Nov 14 22:23:02 TPC, what do you mean with: make a package for that first? Nov 14 22:23:43 qos, you are trying to make a package for mumble Nov 14 22:23:57 it obviously needs qt, there is no qt package, so before you can make a mumble package you have to make a qt package Nov 14 22:24:30 so, i have to fetch the qt sources first, compile them and then start compiling mumble? Nov 14 22:24:43 or wait, is this for OS2008 or OS2007? Nov 14 22:24:50 Maybe penguinbait has Qt packages for you. Nov 14 22:24:50 OS2008 Nov 14 22:24:51 <_Monkey> well, OS2008 is really fast Nov 14 22:24:51 there should be a qt package for 2007 somewhere Nov 14 22:24:58 ah Nov 14 22:25:08 well, penguinbait might have 2008 packages for QT since he compiled kde earlier Nov 14 22:25:18 it thing in 4 weeks no one will use OS2007 anymore Nov 14 22:25:27 if you get it from him you don't have to do it yourself Nov 14 22:25:58 yeah, so penguinbait. did you compile kde for OS2008? Nov 14 22:26:20 so that i can lend me the your qt packages ;) Nov 14 22:26:49 I did, but 2007 should be the same, I do not have a QT package isolated though Nov 14 22:27:13 O_o Nov 14 22:27:19 This leaves my scratchbox as a 300+ MB tarball/bz2 Nov 14 22:27:23 http://qtopia.net/modules/devices/ Nov 14 22:27:29 Don't tell me you packages _everything_ into one deb? Nov 14 22:27:30 with everything in it Nov 14 22:27:32 Qtopia can run on any device that runs Linux(tm). Nov 14 22:27:32 * alterego vomits. Nov 14 22:27:36 NO DEB Nov 14 22:27:44 maybe I will make an RPM Nov 14 22:27:45 hehe Nov 14 22:27:46 so could you run Qtopia on an N800? Nov 14 22:27:58 Now you're just trying to annoy me :P Nov 14 22:28:17 I think you could, but from my understand qtopia does not use X Nov 14 22:28:19 Okay boys and girls. ruby-maemo 0.3.0 has been released for OS2008 Nov 14 22:28:22 I need X Nov 14 22:28:29 I guess I've got something to write in my blog now :) Nov 14 22:28:33 oh Nov 14 22:28:34 hehe Nov 14 22:28:55 Look do I release 90+ packages or release one Nov 14 22:28:55 alterego: what is your blog's url? Nov 14 22:29:12 Tell us your current mood, too, alterego! Nov 14 22:29:14 l7, that's a good question ;) Nov 14 22:29:19 so, penguinbait. where to fetch this mega package? Nov 14 22:29:21 I wanted to do this sometime whild the hardware was still valid Nov 14 22:29:54 alterego: so you have a blog without a url? o.O Nov 14 22:30:04 l7, it's http://maemo-dev.blogspot.com Nov 14 22:30:33 As you can see. It's pretty sparse right now. Nov 14 22:31:06 I'm going to do a ruby-maemo road map post. Describing the project in a bit and tomorrow I'll do a 0.3.0 release announcement. Nov 14 22:31:19 penguinbait.com/KDE356v3.tar.bz2 Nov 14 22:31:28 Actually .. I'll be releasing 0.4.0 on Friday so I might as well hold that one off. Nov 14 22:31:40 penguinbait, I would say 90+ packages Nov 14 22:31:56 penguinbait, because then everyone else can use the libraries and compile their things without having to redo all the work you do Nov 14 22:31:59 alterego: heh, yeah :) Nov 14 22:32:06 and if you want to upgrade a single component you can Nov 14 22:32:07 Well I wanted KDE for me, its ease of use for evewryone else, bah Nov 14 22:32:17 nice theme i guess : Nov 14 22:32:27 I still can, I have all the source, I can repackage Nov 14 22:32:45 It wouldn't take much effort to package the components. Deb packages are easy once you get to know them. Nov 14 22:33:30 I can compile and build all of KDE in one day, If I packaged it would take me much longer Nov 14 22:33:55 I have asked the community of anyone wants to help, and nobody does, so I do what I can Nov 14 22:34:33 Besides if I packaged it, more people would use it, is that really what you want Alterego? Nov 14 22:34:35 really? Nov 14 22:34:43 K`zan: http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/maemo/install/xchat.install < is this only for bora ? Nov 14 22:34:46 penguinbait, I really don't care :P Nov 14 22:34:51 heh Nov 14 22:35:47 can't you just use the debian source packages for qt/kde? Nov 14 22:36:14 whats debian Nov 14 22:36:16 ? Nov 14 22:36:35 is that like an RPM? Nov 14 22:37:52 was that a net split or is my humor just that bad? Nov 14 22:38:12 l7: trolltech had qtopia(phone ed though iirc) ported to 770 at 3gsm.. Nov 14 22:38:52 maemo.org is probably the worst site I regularly deal with. Nov 14 22:39:03 It has the uptime of a 90 year old man. Nov 14 22:39:08 hem: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94840&postcount=1 Nov 14 22:39:38 penguinbait has a memory leak Nov 14 22:41:09 They are trying to scare us :) Nov 14 22:41:18 We need to be brave. Nov 14 22:41:38 I reflashed very fast and without any troubles... Nov 14 22:45:48 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=94954#post94954 Nov 14 22:46:07 so is it possible to change your MAC address is OS 2007 or 2008? Nov 14 22:46:23 I have something that change's it in os2007. Nov 14 22:46:30 ifconfig .. Nov 14 22:46:37 don't ask me what it's called, but I've done it before. Nov 14 22:46:56 macchanger Nov 14 22:46:59 get that Nov 14 22:48:03 busybox with ifconfig hw ether support is fine too Nov 14 22:48:35 yea i like the random option in macchanger tho Nov 14 22:48:40 nice and quick Nov 14 22:48:40 Atarii: ah cool, thanks for the tip Nov 14 22:49:08 np Nov 14 22:49:18 Why would you want a random MAC address? Nov 14 22:49:44 i use it to test wireless stuff Nov 14 22:49:59 by test you mean crack Nov 14 22:50:24 Heh Nov 14 22:51:10 alterego: i'm a privacy nut Nov 14 22:51:13 * alterego tests some ruby-maemo examples. Nov 14 22:51:52 Or just a nut :P Nov 14 22:51:52 so i prefer not presenting the same MAC addresses from different hotspots Nov 14 22:52:08 What possible benifit to your privacy could that have? Nov 14 22:52:09 heh, maybe Nov 14 22:52:28 Hmm .. This isn't good. Nov 14 22:52:34 hrm, i'm not sure Nov 14 22:52:42 it's just good to be on the safe side Nov 14 22:53:33 Hmm .. Nov 14 22:53:36 This is weird. Nov 14 22:53:48 Since when did you have to start using 'run-standalone.sh' on the target .. Nov 14 22:54:42 l7 wat repo is macchanger in? Nov 14 22:55:15 nvm Nov 14 22:55:25 hi all Nov 14 22:56:28 actually, apparently its meant to be in maemo-hackers but i cant find it Nov 14 22:57:11 Anyone tried wardriving with n800 + GPS? Nov 14 22:57:45 Meh, I have 3g Nov 14 22:57:48 What would be the point? :P Nov 14 22:57:50 Looks like OS2008 has USB host mode .. Nov 14 22:58:04 * bill20r3 drools. Nov 14 22:58:11 that's a killer feature right there. Nov 14 22:58:23 Atarii: not sure, i'm still researching things i will do in the first week after i buy my n800 Nov 14 22:58:33 google seemed to find some hits for macchanger though Nov 14 22:58:58 yea think i mite hav it now Nov 14 22:58:59 hmm... usb host mode Nov 14 22:59:00 <_Monkey> i heard usb host mode was still no go, right? Nov 14 22:59:05 Samba sharing!!! Nov 14 22:59:06 what would you do with usb host mode? Nov 14 22:59:25 extra storage Nov 14 22:59:25 Can we finally access windows shares straing out of the box? Nov 14 22:59:29 plug in a usb wireless adapter that supports arp injection? Nov 14 22:59:34 pc_speaker, no Nov 14 22:59:36 * bill20r3 coughs. Nov 14 22:59:39 Shit. Nov 14 22:59:47 That was promised... Nov 14 23:00:02 Where, When? Nov 14 23:00:31 promises, promises... Nov 14 23:00:46 I've never heard anything about samba support .. Nov 14 23:00:46 Everyone in samba howtos were saing "or wait till next or release where it will be built in..." Nov 14 23:01:08 os release I mean... Nov 14 23:01:10 Probably talking about something else. Nov 14 23:01:26 I think no :) Nov 14 23:01:30 But anyway... Nov 14 23:01:34 Though, this image isn't a proper image. Nov 14 23:01:53 IT HAS TERRIBLE USB BUG!!! Nov 14 23:01:59 Just kidding :)))) Nov 14 23:02:16 No samba module to be found. Nov 14 23:02:25 usb host = usb keyboard ? Nov 14 23:02:39 With a powered hub sure. Nov 14 23:02:49 drivers are here already ? Nov 14 23:02:52 USB networking .. Nov 14 23:03:00 hid ? Nov 14 23:03:01 <_Monkey> hid is a standard for how interface deviced talk to computers Nov 14 23:03:14 Who knows .. Nov 14 23:03:33 I have no real inclination to plug a keyboard into my tablet. Nov 14 23:04:11 bt keyboard doesn't work well :( Nov 14 23:04:23 For who? Nov 14 23:04:26 they didn't fix even on os2008 Nov 14 23:04:34 bug#2166 Nov 14 23:04:41 Meh. Nov 14 23:04:44 this is interesting Nov 14 23:05:00 But fixing is for losers. Nov 14 23:05:04 with N800 OS2008, the video file that comes with it to demonstrate video functionality Nov 14 23:05:14 the built in media player plays it just fine Nov 14 23:05:18 Transparency in widgets is for cool guys... Nov 14 23:05:20 but mplayer has problems with it playing too slow Nov 14 23:05:31 TPC, yeah, It's just like the N800 video with a couple of edits ^_^ Nov 14 23:05:42 used to be the other way around with OS2007, mplayer being able to play things that the built in couldn't Nov 14 23:06:15 mplayer will be tweked soon for os2008 Nov 14 23:07:46 pc_speaker, probably, I just find it interesting that the built in media player has improved so much Nov 14 23:08:28 Maybe Nov 14 23:08:51 But the demo video i highly optimized for the device... Nov 14 23:09:32 I watched some non-optimized xvids on n800 (os2007 + mplayer) Nov 14 23:09:41 so have I Nov 14 23:09:46 and mplayer was better every time Nov 14 23:09:55 Yes :) Nov 14 23:10:00 well, mine were libavcodec mpeg4, not xvid Nov 14 23:10:01 :P Nov 14 23:10:05 I really like it. Nov 14 23:10:10 OSD is cool to :) Nov 14 23:10:22 gonna try one of them now in both Nov 14 23:10:38 And onscreen sound controls... Nov 14 23:11:06 What really sucks big times is music playback in built in player :))) Nov 14 23:11:43 Interface is built up by programmers... Nov 14 23:12:12 I use mplayer for that Nov 14 23:12:20 I do find /media/mmc1/music > playlist Nov 14 23:12:28 then mplayer -shuffle -playlist playlist Nov 14 23:12:30 and leave it Nov 14 23:12:31 :P Nov 14 23:12:35 :)))) Nov 14 23:12:51 mpg123 is better for this :) Nov 14 23:12:59 mpg123 doesn't play ogg :P Nov 14 23:13:07 ogg vorbis that is Nov 14 23:13:12 I just use the media player for audio .. Nov 14 23:13:29 the media player won't play ogg vorbis either Nov 14 23:13:46 BTW why the hell Kanola doesn't support background play? Nov 14 23:13:57 I want to read book dammit! :) Nov 14 23:14:21 because there's no cpu left for anything else to run. :-| Nov 14 23:15:11 Meh, I use MP3 .. Nov 14 23:15:16 And where is finger scrolling? Nov 14 23:15:29 A have using nails to scroll webpages... Nov 14 23:15:43 And stylus is not a solution :)))) Nov 14 23:16:14 seems also python doesn't install on os2008 Nov 14 23:17:00 ruby does!!! Nov 14 23:17:02 :P Nov 14 23:17:07 ruby-maemo ftw! Nov 14 23:17:08 Python works fine Nov 14 23:17:11 just add the bora repo Nov 14 23:17:14 i hate how gamma curve on tft's is totally different from crts. Nov 14 23:17:44 Youtube looks like crap now .. Nov 14 23:17:48 ? Nov 14 23:17:50 It renders the page all vertical. Nov 14 23:17:57 Sure .. The videos play good. Nov 14 23:18:01 ? Nov 14 23:18:18 Renders fine for me. Nov 14 23:18:45 Strange .. Nov 14 23:18:49 GeneralAntilles: xchat also is listed but it list problems "lack of packages: hildon-libs0, libdbus-1-2, libau0 Nov 14 23:19:01 Maybe my browser install is quirky. Nov 14 23:19:02 Yeah, because it hasn't been updated to OS2008 Nov 14 23:19:56 Has to be moved to the lastest Gtk Nov 14 23:20:24 ok Nov 14 23:20:58 just add the bora repo Nov 14 23:21:04 maemo extra ? Nov 14 23:21:35 http://repository.maemo.org/ Nov 14 23:21:36 bora Nov 14 23:21:40 free non-free extras Nov 14 23:21:49 GeneralAntilles, you do realise he's talking about OS2008 Nov 14 23:21:59 The bora repo will not work .. Nov 14 23:22:04 * GeneralAntilles prods alterego with a "Duh" stick. Nov 14 23:22:28 Works fine over here. ;) Nov 14 23:22:36 O_o Nov 14 23:22:48 is it dangerouse ? Nov 14 23:22:52 No. Nov 14 23:22:54 How many versions of hildon and glibc do you have installed now? Nov 14 23:23:10 a few extra glibc's won't hurt Nov 14 23:23:13 It's the OS2008 Python Nov 14 23:23:17 ;) Nov 14 23:23:31 mmm i'll wait for fix :) Nov 14 23:23:39 Then you'll be waiting for release. Nov 14 23:23:48 I've done this and others have done this with no problems Nov 14 23:23:52 so I don't know what to tell you. :\ Nov 14 23:26:11 alterego, http://m.youtube.com/?warned=yes&warned=0 - using this YouTube? Nov 14 23:26:34 what's the worst thing that will happen? new packages will just replace the existing ones. Nov 14 23:28:52 Crap .. I've forgotten my maemo.org login details >:( Nov 14 23:31:02 Sorry, errands, did anyone ever respond to what would be the desired distro for the SDKs? Nov 14 23:31:28 debian? Nov 14 23:31:44 thats the impression i'm under anyhow Nov 14 23:31:57 there isn't just a vmware image you can get? Nov 14 23:32:22 fysa, read planet.maemo.org Nov 14 23:32:24 gla55_: Thanks, will stuff deb4 on vmware for it. Nov 14 23:32:43 Or whatever the current release for that is. Nov 14 23:32:51 cool. Nov 14 23:33:14 fysa: Dunno, may well be an appliance for that. No biggie ether way though :-). Nov 14 23:33:20 fysa - tried the n800 nx port Nov 14 23:33:26 it seems badly buggy Nov 14 23:33:33 http://www.piega.org/Maemo-4.0-1_VmWare.tar.bz2 Nov 14 23:33:41 maemo/maemo Nov 14 23:34:43 Well at least pidgin works on irc... Nov 14 23:36:12 wonder how the GBA/SNES emulator runs at 400mhz.. Nov 14 23:36:48 fysa, well, it used to run fine on my P1 133mhz Nov 14 23:37:24 but that version was extremly heavily asm hand-optimized towards x86 Nov 14 23:37:34 there is nothing like that for arm Nov 14 23:42:39 seems only a few fps in OS2007/. Nov 14 23:42:52 and GBA uses ARM Nov 14 23:47:41 PSP is better for retrogaming... Nov 14 23:48:04 Excluding quests and adventures. Nov 14 23:48:58 'night to all Nov 14 23:49:14 I just want Final Fantasy Tactics. :) Nov 14 23:49:15 pc_speaker: why doesn't the psp do quests? Nov 14 23:49:31 It does Nov 14 23:49:46 But touchscreen is better :) Nov 14 23:50:58 pc_speaker: touchscreen? Nov 14 23:50:58 <_Monkey> touchscreen is beginning to annoy me Nov 14 23:55:16 fysa you like the FF series? Nov 14 23:55:42 I think best part of the N810 would be easier emulator/games ;) Nov 14 23:56:14 right I'm off to bed Nov 14 23:56:16 nn all Nov 14 23:56:28 Yes, but controls are still not very suitable for gaming... Nov 14 23:58:41 would need to hold one in hand to know that Nov 14 23:59:00 much more suitable than not having the kb thats for sure though Nov 15 00:12:56 http://m.youtube.com/?warned=yes&warned=0 i just get unsupported file type when trying this Nov 15 00:14:05 there's a reason why you're browsing mobile youtube? Nov 15 00:14:11 it sucks big time Nov 15 00:14:36 it's just video files supported by most mobile phones Nov 15 00:14:58 3gp of some sort i think, never checked that far Nov 15 00:15:11 but they only got a really really really small subset of vids of youtube Nov 15 00:15:23 which makes it suck big time and totally useless as service too Nov 15 00:15:52 lol thanks for pointing that out Nov 15 00:16:19 i would have expected the media player to support 3gp to be honest though Nov 15 00:17:33 yea Nov 15 00:18:18 oh, it's only a subset? shitty. Nov 15 00:19:57 gla55_: They play perfectly full screen in media player, that's why you'd use it. Nov 15 00:20:56 fysa: go to m.youtube.com's recently added, they add like a fucking 1 video per day Nov 15 00:21:07 heh, nokia released stupid n82 instead of n810. The difference is n728... Nov 15 00:21:56 so at now for youtube the 'mobile' site is more like a placeholder.. sure it works etc nicely, from phone too. but wheres the fun without the copyrighted content from regular tube Nov 15 00:21:59 Has ANYBODY successfully downloaded the maps for Eastern US? Nov 15 00:22:07 It's failed around 40-60% on me 4 times now. Nov 15 00:32:27 it could be worse Nov 15 00:35:31 I could be stuck on a 770? :P Nov 15 00:44:06 woot Nov 15 00:44:12 just flashed the n810 firmware on n800, works Nov 15 00:47:15 Yes, it's quite tasty. Nov 15 00:49:16 blazing fast too. or maybe it's the pristine firmware (didn't restore from backup) Nov 15 00:50:59 It surely blazes. :D Nov 15 00:57:47 the N770 definitely does not like the microb engine :( Nov 15 01:00:27 disq: Unfortunately, Maemo Scrobbler doesn't seem to work. Nov 15 01:00:40 i'll test it once i get kagu to install Nov 15 01:00:59 It shows the countdown in the control panel being stuck. Nov 15 01:03:10 <|tbb|> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11721 Nov 15 01:04:54 <|tbb|> will the new os be able to use bt a2dp headsets without the kagu hack? Nov 15 01:05:15 <|tbb|> kagu mplayer hack, or however u call it Nov 15 01:26:27 I notice that touchscreen input for scrolling is smoother under OS2008 Nov 15 01:40:25 hello Nov 15 01:40:30 so is the n810 out yet? Nov 15 01:40:58 It's being shipped to distributors Nov 15 01:41:01 Soon enough. :) Nov 15 01:41:58 cool! Nov 15 01:42:04 has anyone ordered theirs from provantage.com? Nov 15 01:42:29 Just wait for it to hit a real store. Nov 15 01:42:52 but they have it for 417 w/ shipping Nov 15 01:43:08 isnt that really cheap? Nov 15 01:43:34 You can buy stuff cheap a lot of places, no guarantee that you'll get it in a timely fashion or in good shape. ;) Nov 15 01:43:40 I'd just buy an N800, personaly. Nov 15 01:43:42 *+l Nov 15 01:43:43 Or even at that price. Nov 15 01:44:03 zerojay: what do you mean? Nov 15 01:44:36 A lot of sites put up extra cheap prices before a product is released to get sales/attention and then pull the "oh, the MSRP was higher, sorry" deal. Nov 15 01:44:59 zerojay: but if you ordered it now they cant jack the price up Nov 15 01:45:05 they'd have already charged your card Nov 15 01:45:11 nwidger: That's what you think. Nov 15 01:45:24 how is that legal? Nov 15 01:45:41 They can claim they didn't know what the final price was or wasn't announced. Nov 15 01:45:47 Happens all the time. Nov 15 01:46:03 that's a sack of dicks Nov 15 01:49:21 how would i install an ssh server on the n800 with os2008? dropbear doesn't seem to be available Nov 15 01:49:30 openssh? Nov 15 01:49:30 <_Monkey> openssh is, like, to big for embbeded devince (just sbz's opinion) and dropbear is done for that, so Nov 15 01:49:43 Just enable the Extras repo Nov 15 01:55:09 zerojay: maemoscrobbler did work for me Nov 15 01:55:55 zerojay: after entering your last.fm user/pass, hit continue, then hit OK (so let the control panel applet close) Nov 15 01:56:30 Could it be because I restored from a backup. Nov 15 01:56:40 don't think so, maybe Nov 15 01:56:43 i didn't restore from a backup Nov 15 01:57:01 I'll try to clear it. Nov 15 01:57:02 (instead I backed up the entire rootfs to mmc, already got dual boot set up) Nov 15 01:57:22 hang on i'll give you a cmdline to clear maemoscrobbler gconf Nov 15 01:58:37 "gconftool-2 --recursive-unset /apps/maemoscrobbler" Nov 15 01:59:28 but could you please try it without the gconf hack? just dive into the control panel play, hit continue, hit ok Nov 15 02:00:07 Continue isn't able to be clicked. Nov 15 02:00:15 btw for scrobbling to work (in kagu anyways, ukmp ignores this and breaks the spec) you need to play more than 50% of the song Nov 15 02:00:26 And the submission countdown is frozen at 13:44. Nov 15 02:01:06 When I first flashed 2008, I had the same problem, but it was stuck at 8:44. Nov 15 02:01:38 It's too bad maemo scrobbler isn't more active.. pulling from media player for example. Nov 15 02:01:44 interesting. could you run a "gconftool-2 -a /apps/maemoscrobbler" and see what the output says? or paste it to me (the "passmd5" isn't needed, don't paste that) Nov 15 02:01:48 Because scrobbling is the only reason I use Kagu. Nov 15 02:01:53 Sure. Nov 15 02:02:03 pulling from media player correctly isn't possible Nov 15 02:02:18 it only gives you the title, not the artist or other info Nov 15 02:02:21 gconftool2 not found. Nov 15 02:02:26 and it's pain to work with Nov 15 02:02:34 mind the "-". gconftool-2 Nov 15 02:02:38 Ah., Nov 15 02:03:14 lasterrortime = 1104051490 Nov 15 02:03:24 username = darkstalker Nov 15 02:03:32 scrobble = false Nov 15 02:03:35 submit = true Nov 15 02:03:39 lasterror = 1 Nov 15 02:03:44 scrobble=false? you got both checkboxes checked? Nov 15 02:03:49 But that's after I tried to fill it in again. Nov 15 02:03:55 I had just disabled it. Nov 15 02:03:59 ah. ok Nov 15 02:04:46 Continue is never enabled. Nov 15 02:05:06 it's only enabled when you get a repeating error (like invalid password, etc) Nov 15 02:05:23 you're supposed to click it when you fix the invalid data (username, password, that kind of thing) Nov 15 02:05:30 Sure, but at the very least, I expect to see the time until the next submission. Nov 15 02:05:46 So.. not sure what's going on. Nov 15 02:05:57 Not that I have anything to USE it installed yet, but still. ;) Nov 15 02:06:01 my maemoscrobbler settings are nearly exact. scrobble=true, submit=true, lasterror=1, lasterrortime=some unixtime Nov 15 02:07:10 please run a "ps ax|grep scrobb" and see "/usr/bin/scrobblerd --dbus" is there and running. same for "ps ax|grep songlis" to see "/usr/bin/songlistend --dbus" Nov 15 02:07:51 debugging it by hand is a lengthy process as you'll need to install syslogd and all Nov 15 02:07:52 Having xterm installed by default is nice, btw. ;) Nov 15 02:08:05 didn't use it yet. installed openssh Nov 15 02:08:22 ah, let me hack gainroot so i don't have to keep the rd mode on Nov 15 02:08:50 scrobblerd isn't running. Nov 15 02:09:00 it probably means kagu didn't launch it Nov 15 02:09:35 when you play a song, kagu makes a dbus call. which in turns runs songlistend. then songlistend makes a dbus call when it's time to notify scrobbler Nov 15 02:09:39 scrobblerd* Nov 15 02:09:44 Ah, okay. Nov 15 02:09:53 Well, don't have a version of Kagu to install so... ;) Nov 15 02:10:12 well, then your bugreport is invalid :P Nov 15 02:10:26 you could install the bora version, worked ok for me Nov 15 02:10:43 I'll give it a shot. Nov 15 02:10:46 tho i immediately updated to the in-development svn one Nov 15 02:11:43 i need osso-statusbar-cpu Nov 15 02:12:23 can't really bitch about metacrawler when i don't have my cpumeter Nov 15 02:12:38 metacrawler appears to be far faster. Nov 15 02:14:42 that's because you don't have a cpugraph to go with it :P Nov 15 02:15:11 is that a joke zerojay Nov 15 02:15:22 Well, I mean that media player doesn't take ages to list songs anymore for me. Nov 15 02:15:23 faster to use up your CPU? Nov 15 02:15:33 tho seems like nokia/osso got it right this time. it's blazing fast. api break to get to the new gtk/pango/whatever was worth it Nov 15 02:15:39 I've never had trouble with metacrawler. Ever. Nov 15 02:15:50 disq: Absolutely. Nov 15 02:16:03 I have always had problems, it must not like KDE subdirs Nov 15 02:16:21 i don't ever use the builtin media player so i don't need metalayer-crawler Nov 15 02:16:24 There's so many things that they've fixed and made little changes to that help tremendously. Nov 15 02:16:56 works great :) Nov 15 02:17:17 Microb and RTCOMM no longer being out of beta... far more solid too. Nov 15 02:17:22 er. Nov 15 02:17:27 No longer being in beta, I meant. Nov 15 02:18:25 Now just give me Camera and Video Center back and I'll be a happy man. Nov 15 02:18:57 I just want to enter in some code Nov 15 02:19:19 well. m-l-crawler still eating away my cpu. but it's reniced now. i'll disable it again, to save a few jolts on the battery Nov 15 02:20:24 GeneralAntilles: thanks for the openssh tip Nov 15 02:20:26 zerojay: got kagu yet? Nov 15 02:20:32 Sure thing. Nov 15 02:20:42 disq: Got sidetracked. Hang on. Nov 15 02:20:42 Khertan: python installs fine, follow instructions on http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/ Nov 15 02:21:09 * disq got mc, happy Nov 15 02:21:38 midnight commander? Nov 15 02:21:42 yep Nov 15 02:21:47 (by editing /etc/apt/sources.list and then do apt-get update, apt-get install python2.5-runtime) Nov 15 02:21:53 environment bookmarks bundled in, that's so trendy of nokia Nov 15 02:22:25 Unable to install python2.5-runtime. Nov 15 02:22:38 disq: Open the Images program too. Nov 15 02:22:46 zerojay: see (09:18:47 PM) Nov 15 02:22:55 and (09:19:52 PM) (regarding python) Nov 15 02:23:37 apt-get.. ugh.. forget that. Nov 15 02:23:44 i did it by adding the line "deb http://repository.maemo.org/ chinook free non-free" to /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Nov 15 02:23:54 Haha, my thoughts exactly, disq. ;) Nov 15 02:23:55 tried sources.list first but it was empty Nov 15 02:23:58 Just restore a backup. Nov 15 02:24:24 like the glasser color scheme better btw. black and grey is too sardine for me now Nov 15 02:25:56 Plankton is listed.. hehe. Nov 15 02:27:34 disq: I just did it in application manager just fine. Nov 15 02:27:40 Installed. Nov 15 02:28:50 btw mine somehow doesn't automount the external mmc until i open and reclose the mmc door Nov 15 02:29:13 mounts internal ext2 mmc just fine (and it's ext2) Nov 15 02:30:20 don't get me wrong i'm not complaining :) Nov 15 02:30:59 * pupnik looks at calendar Nov 15 02:31:04 The Kagu one click install on maemo.org gives me a 500 error. :) Nov 15 02:31:39 that's garage's fault :P could you install the deb directly from garage? go to garage.maemo.org and find kagu Nov 15 02:32:41 disq: which media player do you use? Nov 15 02:33:01 is the built-in media player pretty bad? Nov 15 02:33:46 i use kagu. it was pretty bad in os2007 (no playlist editions) i guess it's getting better now Nov 15 02:34:04 I've always liked the built-in. Nov 15 02:34:41 Simple, doesn't get in your way.. lets you use your tablet while listening to music and doesn't switch around the button schemes. Nov 15 02:36:03 i like the simplicity too, but it is way too limited for my taste Nov 15 02:36:33 planning to write a lighter kagu someday Nov 15 02:36:34 The only thing I want added to it (besides ogg support) is scrobbling. Nov 15 02:37:07 Unable to install Kagu. Nov 15 02:37:18 details? Nov 15 02:37:30 chown: /home/user/.kagu/: no such file or directory Nov 15 02:37:47 that shouldn't be an error Nov 15 02:38:17 maybe app mgr now just bails when it sees something in stdout? Nov 15 02:38:21 erm, stderr Nov 15 02:38:30 process 4937: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid: Failed to open "/var/lib/dbus/machine-id": No such file or directory Nov 15 02:38:51 i got that error from the chinook beta sdk. never happened to me again Nov 15 02:39:02 See the manual page for dbus-uuidgen to correct this issue. Nov 15 02:39:33 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 134. Nov 15 02:39:48 apt-worker command 6 already pending. Nov 15 02:40:14 yeah got it, tried myself from appmgr Nov 15 02:40:31 I'm in blue pill mode, if it helps. Nov 15 02:40:32 you should be install it with dpkg -i Nov 15 02:40:47 (apt-get install kagu after adding the bora repo worked for me a few minutes ago) Nov 15 02:40:55 Attempting to install it says "Updating kagu". Heh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 15 02:59:57 2007