**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Nov 17 02:59:57 2007 Nov 17 02:59:58 dunno then, seems bizarre for somene to be able to shoot such a length of buried cable Nov 17 03:00:05 as I said, the article that the one you posted *references* says they pulled it up Nov 17 03:00:05 I'm liking getting forum reply notices so much more from Jabber than by e-mail. So glad I finished that. Nov 17 03:00:54 milhouse: particularly given that bullet penetration into soil is absolutely abysmal -- and they allude that it might have been shot, which is even *worse* (less than an inch for any but the largest shot) Nov 17 03:01:40 yeah, you'd have to be pretty determined... and for nobody to notice as well (it could have been in the middle of nowhere I suppose) Nov 17 03:02:18 hello Nov 17 03:02:51 I'm having trouble to access maemo.org , is there a problem in there? Nov 17 03:02:58 there's plenty of places between Cleveland and Montville where no one would have noticed ;-) Nov 17 03:03:24 there are also plenty of places where lots of people would have noticed, though, so who knows Nov 17 03:03:32 freakish things happen all the time, I guess Nov 17 03:07:05 http://open.neurostechnology.com/node/1020 hm this is interesting Nov 17 03:12:31 :( Nov 17 03:17:32 homeless guys under a bridge in minneapolis took out a fiber cable by setting a fire to keep warm Nov 17 03:22:02 im confused Nov 17 03:22:08 what is: http://test.maemo.org/ Nov 17 03:22:31 Looks like the old maemo site. Nov 17 03:25:03 rgr Nov 17 03:26:04 Ha . . . I still remember the old Application Catalog wiki page. Nov 17 03:28:17 It was kinda nice have a one-page overview of all the software available for the platform Nov 17 03:28:26 (though a bit sad, too) Nov 17 03:33:17 Sigh, can't import my bookmarks :-/. Nov 17 03:33:20 I'm upgrading my old 770 to the latest 2007os Nov 17 03:33:40 does anyone know if skype or rtcomm SIP works? Nov 17 03:33:53 (on the 770 of course) Nov 17 03:43:25 I just loaded some of my music to the internal card, how do I get the media player to find it, I can't find anything - like it expects it on the internal RAM?!? Nov 17 03:43:36 No. Nov 17 03:43:42 Just copy it over to the card. Nov 17 03:43:46 That's all. Nov 17 03:43:59 It will run metacrawler to find your music. Nov 17 03:44:06 Did, stock stuff is all that is showing. Nov 17 03:44:16 Ok, lemme close and restart it. Nov 17 03:44:20 Try removing the card and putting it back in. Nov 17 03:44:50 I ran a girl script earlier to keep metalayer busy Nov 17 03:45:00 OK, lemme unplug and shut everything down and turn off... Nov 17 03:45:02 A girl script? Nov 17 03:45:06 thats probably why :) Nov 17 03:45:22 I guess you had to be here earlier :) Nov 17 03:45:30 Can I leave apps open when I remove/re-install the internal card? Nov 17 03:46:10 shouldn't make a difference Nov 17 03:46:20 GeneralAntilles> Yes, lonely, penguinbait, it spends all its time looking for companionship on your SD cards and finding none. ;) Nov 17 03:46:39 ok, done, lets see if it finds the music directory now. Nov 17 03:47:05 we didnt want it to be lonely anymore :) Nov 17 03:47:21 Blind date for metalayer-crawler? Nov 17 03:47:30 Nope, still only finds the stock stuff :-/. My music isn't going to fit on the internal memory :-(. Nov 17 03:47:41 Well, in small chunks anyway. Nov 17 03:47:45 Give it a minute Nov 17 03:47:51 K`zan: What tablet do you have? Nov 17 03:47:56 hes a pleaser, it may take a while ;) Nov 17 03:48:00 n800 Nov 17 03:48:05 2007, latest Nov 17 03:48:37 Library appears to be fixed in internal memory :-(. Nov 17 03:48:43 It's not. Nov 17 03:48:45 Rather useless... Nov 17 03:48:55 metalayer-crawler will find media anywhere. Nov 17 03:48:56 I see no way to change it?!? Nov 17 03:48:56 And it's not. Nov 17 03:49:13 There's no reason to change anything because it indexes both of your SD cards. Nov 17 03:49:21 128M for system and apps doesn't leave much for things like music... Nov 17 03:49:30 K`zan, you aren't listening Nov 17 03:49:37 it indexes all memory for media files. Nov 17 03:49:38 Because that's what the SD card slots are for. Nov 17 03:49:39 Just give it a minute. Nov 17 03:49:42 GeneralAntilles: What am I missing. Nov 17 03:50:04 It has been sitting here for a bit now while I was looking through the menu... Nov 17 03:50:22 The number of songs listed doesn't update on its own. Nov 17 03:50:40 You have to kind of switch categories and if you go back, you'll notice the number's changed. Nov 17 03:50:49 K`zan: What format are your music files anyways? Nov 17 03:50:58 mp3s Nov 17 03:51:10 All there in file manager... Nov 17 03:52:09 Open media player. Nov 17 03:52:42 OK, closed and re-launched - up. Nov 17 03:52:55 Go to the library. Nov 17 03:53:08 Comes up in library. Nov 17 03:53:17 what comes up in library? Nov 17 03:53:23 Media player Nov 17 03:53:24 <_Monkey> rumour has it Media player is the only app running Nov 17 03:53:33 Open Music. Nov 17 03:53:37 No, got xchat and fbreader Nov 17 03:53:49 1 artist Nov 17 03:54:30 If you double click the songs in file manager, will it play them? Nov 17 03:54:52 dunno, lemme open that and give it try. Nov 17 03:55:23 That worked! Nov 17 03:55:39 Brought it up in media player. Nov 17 03:55:57 Needs a bit more bass :) Nov 17 03:56:07 Did you do anything stupid like create a recursive link on your memory cards or in your home directory? Nov 17 03:56:51 No Sir. Installed the SD cards and formatted them and used USB to this box to transfer stuff I wanted (including music) to the cards. Nov 17 03:57:58 At this point I have no idea how to create something like that :). Nov 17 03:58:04 Have you done any sort of out of the ordinary changes to your tablet? Nov 17 03:58:52 No, just got it this afternoon, installed xchat, fbreader and got wireless working. Nov 17 03:59:02 very odd. Nov 17 03:59:04 reverse order. Nov 17 03:59:57 Something is weird... Stuff in playlist but it is all null Nov 17 04:00:22 Maybe your mp3s are badly corrupted or just plain weird. Nov 17 04:00:30 Reboot couldn't hurt. Nov 17 04:00:48 Yes, reboot. Nov 17 04:01:00 How does one hold ctl-alt-del on this thing? Nov 17 04:01:12 Hold down the power button for a few seconds. Nov 17 04:01:45 open the back, and do a patent-pending nokia flick to make the battery fall out (hit the device against your cupped hand) Nov 17 04:01:54 NOKIA Nov 17 04:02:07 Ha Nov 17 04:02:10 seriously Nov 17 04:02:16 Robot101: You don't have to do anything but pull it out. Nov 17 04:02:39 Need fingernails for that. ;) Nov 17 04:02:44 No, you don't. Nov 17 04:02:48 I don't have them. Nov 17 04:02:53 pull? this sounds like I have ti o involve my fingers. believe me, this is the quickest way. I can do it in about half a second. :) Nov 17 04:02:57 chew them off all the time. :) Nov 17 04:03:16 Yeah, really, the flick is beautiful. Nov 17 04:03:26 Robot101: If you don't mind subjecting your tablet to the shock, sure. Nov 17 04:03:31 Nice blue behind the keys Nov 17 04:03:34 pad Nov 17 04:03:54 my tablets are all fine :) Nov 17 04:04:03 Hehe, it's not a running hard drive, zerojay. :P Nov 17 04:04:10 We have a few phones at work that have died because of that. Nov 17 04:04:14 K`zan, OS2008 actually makes that useful, too. Nov 17 04:04:59 The light? Nov 17 04:05:03 Yeah Nov 17 04:05:12 For e-mails, IMs, calls and such. Nov 17 04:05:38 these phones sound weak compared to the might of the nokia tablet hardware :) Nov 17 04:05:55 That tablets are disturbingly strong. Nov 17 04:06:16 Just wish the backpanel on the N800 weren't so loose. Nov 17 04:06:24 Cleaning up email, changed it to n800 and server and now can't change it back :-/. Nov 17 04:06:25 We killed a Sony Ericsson within a week that way. Nov 17 04:06:53 email is horrible on the ITs Nov 17 04:07:17 I still don't see what's so bad about it. Nov 17 04:07:47 Ah, OK, got it now, have to open it to just delete from n800 Nov 17 04:07:56 zerojay: see? sony ericsson. weak. :) Nov 17 04:08:35 Robot101: It's one of about 20 phones that have died because of people doing that at work. Nov 17 04:08:51 Robot101: Across all manufacturers. Nov 17 04:09:44 sounds like the phones crash too much too :D Nov 17 04:10:22 If you want a great phone for that, get a SE W910i from Orange (French operator). Nov 17 04:10:41 They were all recalled because some of them had a problem where exactly 10 seconds into any call, the phone would reboot. Nov 17 04:10:48 stunning Nov 17 04:10:56 Very. Nov 17 04:11:21 How does that even get released? Nov 17 04:11:38 Do they do Q&A and just say, "Well . . . we'll fix it in the recall" Nov 17 04:11:47 I wonder that same thing each and every time some phone comes out with a stupid error. Nov 17 04:11:53 Like this one Samsung. Nov 17 04:12:08 OK, looks like the music stuff got found now. Nov 17 04:12:31 So, if I USB stuff to the card I have to shutdown and pull the battery and card and restart? Nov 17 04:12:48 Or was this just a fluke?!? Nov 17 04:13:06 All fillrect top and bottoms have 1 subtracted. Nov 17 04:13:42 So if you make an unfilled rectangle one pixel thick all the way around, you just get two bars, not a rectangle. Nov 17 04:14:09 It was probably just taking its time indexing Nov 17 04:14:18 K`zan: Shouldn't ever need to be done that way. Nov 17 04:14:28 OK, that makes me feel better :-)! Thanks! Nov 17 04:14:34 You really don't EVER need to take the battery out unless the device is hard crashed. Nov 17 04:14:51 Which, even then, the hardware watchdog should take care of that. Nov 17 04:14:56 Other than that, everything seemed fine. Nov 17 04:15:16 80M of music might take a bit to index. Nov 17 04:15:21 So what's everyone think (that's tried it) of OS2008 vs 2007? Nov 17 04:15:27 It's exceptional. Nov 17 04:15:42 Is 2008 formally released or is it just a beta? Nov 17 04:15:48 It's neither Nov 17 04:15:53 AFIK its just been leaked Nov 17 04:15:58 It's sort of a leak. Nov 17 04:16:05 Looks formal, but I thought it was to be released only when the 810 came out. Nov 17 04:16:06 But that's not really accurate, either. Nov 17 04:16:31 two weeks... Nov 17 04:16:45 The best way to describe it, would be that it's the firmware image for another device that's been mildly finessed to go onto the N800. Nov 17 04:16:58 Patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue, patience is a virtue... Nov 17 04:17:06 Anyone know anything about this thing where when its locked the keys stop working? Nov 17 04:17:27 Just install it. ;) Nov 17 04:17:29 I'll supposedly have my N810 Monday or Tuesday after next. Nov 17 04:17:38 I don't have anything to put it on yet Nov 17 04:18:18 The version that's going to ship on the N810 can't possibly be the version that's on maemo.org right now. Nov 17 04:18:25 No. Nov 17 04:18:28 Inside sources have said as much. Nov 17 04:18:32 I also don't recommend n00bs install it. Nov 17 04:18:42 I heard that :) Nov 17 04:18:48 They'll be far too disappointed by the lack of apps. Nov 17 04:19:07 19 and counting! Nov 17 04:19:13 Do you think that apps for 2007 will come over to 2008 pretty quickly? Nov 17 04:19:24 Depends on the developers. Nov 17 04:19:34 They'll be coming in a deluge over the next 2 weeks. Nov 17 04:19:59 captlloyd: says who? How are you getting it? Nov 17 04:20:16 http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wireless/store/productdetail.asp?productid=22832 Nov 17 04:20:24 maemo mapper is all but officially ported. Nov 17 04:20:30 So there's one off the list. Nov 17 04:20:37 Yeah, mapper is one I really wanna use Nov 17 04:21:13 fbreader is officially ported and works perfectly so far on os2008 Nov 17 04:21:33 How does one change the category of an app? Nov 17 04:21:33 The only stuff I'm really missing are the games. Nov 17 04:21:41 control panel Nov 17 04:21:42 navigation Nov 17 04:21:44 organize Nov 17 04:22:15 Thanks! Nov 17 04:24:10 hey there.. Nov 17 04:24:11 I mostly wanna use mine for IRC, basic web surfing and IM. It'll be so awesome to not have to set up with a laptop to do that. Nov 17 04:24:29 anyone knows if videocenter is available for 2008os ? Nov 17 04:24:47 Not yet. Nov 17 04:25:34 Yeah, I'm a little bummed about that. Nov 17 04:25:48 I instaled os2007_hacker_edition on my old 770... Nov 17 04:25:57 but skype didn't work... Nov 17 04:26:24 I never really got into video center. Nov 17 04:26:26 It installed fine... and starts.. but crashes a sec later... Nov 17 04:26:42 770 doesn't have the horsepower for Skype. Nov 17 04:28:38 it'd probably work fine, but the client tests your device ID to see if you have an N800 Nov 17 04:28:50 it doesn't even work on prototype non-sales N800s Nov 17 04:29:59 Like I said, it doesn't have the power to run it anyways. Nov 17 04:30:00 ok then.. Nov 17 04:30:04 Not in real-time, anyways. Nov 17 04:31:19 The flash in the N810, the one sites list as 256MB, what is that used for? The OS image? Swap Space? Nov 17 04:32:41 how about rtcomm? Nov 17 04:32:50 It installed.. but had some error... Nov 17 04:33:09 but now I do get an option to create a sip account.. Nov 17 04:33:17 rtcomm on the 770? Nov 17 04:33:20 yes Nov 17 04:33:35 Wouldn't suggest it. Nov 17 04:33:42 fabv: I'd be interested to hear if you have problems Nov 17 04:33:48 should work... as gtalk works.. Nov 17 04:33:57 fabv: dang you tricked my tab-completion :) Nov 17 04:33:59 fer: ^^ Nov 17 04:36:49 Robot101, :p Nov 17 04:38:03 zerojay: that's odd - compressing and playing back audio should not overtax the 770 Nov 17 04:39:57 pupnik: It doesn't. Nov 17 04:40:18 pupnik: But doing both in real-time with proprietary codecs do. Nov 17 04:41:38 boo for skype coders then Nov 17 04:42:02 * pupnik tries to get xkbd working with fullscreen sdl apps Nov 17 04:44:38 Alright, zerojay, I'm setup on jablet. ;) Nov 17 04:45:48 jablet?!? Nov 17 04:46:06 GeneralAntilles: Cool. :) Nov 17 04:46:10 WTF !!!! Nov 17 04:46:11 http://jablet.net/ Nov 17 04:46:22 tnx checking Nov 17 04:46:25 the browser on the 770 is faster than the one on the n800 !! Nov 17 04:46:29 K`zan: Jablet's a site I'm working on offering services to tablet users. Nov 17 04:46:48 zerojay: skype doesn't use proprietary codecs Nov 17 04:46:52 testing in a side by side comparison... Nov 17 04:47:04 770 has 2007 hacked edition... (opera) Nov 17 04:47:04 I call boloney. ;) Nov 17 04:47:10 Robot101: I want whatever you've been smoking. Nov 17 04:47:14 n800 has 2008os... Nov 17 04:47:27 ok, let me rephrase, they don't use /software/ codecs so the fact they're proprietary is irrelevant Nov 17 04:47:33 yes they are proprietary Nov 17 04:47:38 but they're implemented on the DSP Nov 17 04:47:44 zerojay: RR, will check it out here soon, bookmarked Nov 17 04:47:49 and the 770's DSP is broadly similar in capability to the N800s Nov 17 04:47:56 and certainly has iLBC which skype can use Nov 17 04:48:23 K`zan: We're currently offering Jabber (with connections to all the major IM programs) for free which you can use with the built-in Jabber client. No need to download and install Pidgin. Nov 17 04:48:36 (but not G.729 which was new in the mid-year OS 2007 release) Nov 17 04:48:37 E-mail too. Nov 17 04:48:52 But we've got big plans for all sorts of other services. Nov 17 04:48:55 All free. Nov 17 04:49:24 but my gut feeling is that if it would run, skype would probably work on the 770, but maybe with decreased voice quality because it'd be more susceptible to scheduling blips Nov 17 04:50:14 the skype client on the N800 doesn't use that much CPU%, but when some bug was redrawing the whole screen of the UI the audio went totally to crap Nov 17 04:52:05 K`zan: In the future, we're looking into doing stuff such as hosting blogs, having a sort of "my online life" pulling stuff from various RSS feeds.. sort of like you can do with Jaiku. Nov 17 04:52:28 Your latest played tracks from Last.Fm, latest pictures added to Flickr, latest blog posts, etc... Nov 17 04:52:47 Anybody notice that Browse buttons have a tendency to nuke the GUI under OS2008? Nov 17 04:52:57 What browse buttons? Nov 17 04:53:09 maybe you could make a maemo UI for mugshot :) Nov 17 04:53:09 Avatar for Jabber, etc. Nov 17 04:53:18 Background select Nov 17 04:53:28 GeneralAntilles: Never once had that problem. Nov 17 04:53:40 Robot101: Mugshot's a photo service, right? Nov 17 04:54:01 no, it's a meta-thingy like you describe Nov 17 04:54:11 Ugh, there's number 3 Nov 17 04:54:13 a web service which lets you pull together blogs, last.fm, flickr, etc Nov 17 04:54:16 can't pick an avatar for Jablet Nov 17 04:54:20 Didn't know about it. Nov 17 04:54:35 and they have a windows/gnome client to give you notifications Nov 17 04:54:45 GeneralAntilles: Odd. Never had a problem with it.. and I just changed my background maybe 20 times today. Nov 17 04:54:49 and you can share links and jump into chat rooms about popular links Nov 17 04:54:54 Weirdness Nov 17 04:55:01 its a bit odd, not sure why redhat spent as much engineer time on it as they did Nov 17 04:55:11 practicing or something Nov 17 04:55:56 word Robot101 Nov 17 04:56:07 elb: word Nov 17 04:56:30 telepathizing maemo? Nov 17 04:56:53 elb: the in-built stuff is built on telepathy Nov 17 04:56:57 Heh.. right on the front page is the Maemo group on Mugshot. Nov 17 04:57:05 Robot101: nice Nov 17 04:57:06 elb: a significant part of my salary for the past 2 years has been from Nokia Nov 17 04:57:17 nicer Nov 17 04:58:13 * elb awaits sales of his maemo device Nov 17 04:58:16 http://www.collabora.co.uk/16/press-release-2 Nov 17 04:58:40 :) Nov 17 04:58:45 elb: getting and N810? Nov 17 04:58:50 s/and/an/ Nov 17 04:58:51 Robot101 meant: elb: getting an N810? Nov 17 04:59:00 s/infobot// Nov 17 04:59:18 yeah Nov 17 04:59:33 GeneralAntilles: Sorry, not many people in the room right now. ;) Nov 17 05:02:48 elb: they're very nice pieces of kit, the keyboard makes a big difference, and the size is now small enough to be pocketed without antoo much bother Nov 17 05:03:32 and the battery life continues to creep up toward acceptable ;-) Nov 17 05:04:07 has anyone here actually seen the display of the new n810? Nov 17 05:04:15 how does it compare with the n800 or 770? Nov 17 05:04:53 (I have both 770 and n800 and find then slightly different...) Nov 17 05:05:05 (770 has a warmer sharper colours) Nov 17 05:05:31 (n800 has cooler (blue) colours... and not as sharp as the 770...) Nov 17 05:05:40 what do you think? Nov 17 05:06:00 N800's display is leaps and bounds better than the 770's Nov 17 05:06:23 GeneralAntilles, what do yo umea? Nov 17 05:06:26 mean Nov 17 05:06:30 Exactly what I said. Nov 17 05:06:36 Colors are better, clarity is better Nov 17 05:06:44 The touchscreen is better. Nov 17 05:06:52 I find the 770 screen much sharper.. Nov 17 05:07:36 Probably an illusion of the dithering from the touchscreen. Nov 17 05:07:58 i do have the original screen protector on my n800, though... Nov 17 05:08:08 and the 770 doesn't have one at all.. Nov 17 05:08:12 Er.. Nov 17 05:08:19 That's not supposed to be there in use. Nov 17 05:08:34 That's just something flimsy to protect the screen during shipping. Nov 17 05:08:39 original? as in, the piece of crap it ships with? take it off and marvel at what the screen's meant to look like Nov 17 05:08:45 Ha Nov 17 05:08:47 :) Nov 17 05:08:47 that thing scratches and marks. the real screen doesn't Nov 17 05:08:54 I left mine on for 6 months. Nov 17 05:09:03 Until I got 'round to buying a real one. Nov 17 05:09:59 ok.. Nov 17 05:10:23 * fer logs off... Nov 17 05:10:31 the screens don't scratch that easily anyway, I dunno what people are so scared of Nov 17 05:10:39 * captlloyd pokes fer Nov 17 05:10:50 I never put any sort of protector on my Palm Nov 17 05:11:10 RobAtWork, I'll tell you what... other people.. who want to "try" your tablet... Nov 17 05:11:10 I also didn't chew on my stylus or try to use an emory board for input Nov 17 05:11:18 maybe these differ from common habits Nov 17 05:11:26 RobAtWork, and end up making a big scratch right on the middle of the screen ! Nov 17 05:11:43 I don't hand my tablet to people who would do such a thing Nov 17 05:11:50 the stylus doesn't scratch the screen Nov 17 05:12:02 I never put any protectors on anything, I just maintain a key / phone pocket exclusion :) Nov 17 05:12:28 Ha Nov 17 05:12:35 Amen to that, Robot101. Nov 17 05:12:50 Electronics on the right and keys and Leatherman on the left. ;) Nov 17 05:15:37 hah Nov 17 05:16:10 * elb attempts to come up with a sorting scheme for his pocket/belt/etc. junk and fails Nov 17 05:16:40 Going to have to figure out someway to get my bookmarks from firefox in. Something about them the n800 browser doesn't like :-(. Nov 17 05:17:14 my equipment damage problems are more subtle than keys -> cell phone Nov 17 05:17:38 it's things like flashlight bezel in left front pocket -> cell pouch on belt Nov 17 05:17:59 or * -> {pants,shirt} Nov 17 05:18:03 If I can get fbreader to pick up all my ebooks, the Zire31 goes in the trash... Nov 17 05:18:39 Ha Nov 17 05:18:41 Don't throw it out! Nov 17 05:18:43 isn't there a palm emulator? Nov 17 05:18:50 There is. Nov 17 05:18:59 Aha! Make a web page out of my firefox bookmarks and use that to link out of. Nov 17 05:19:14 <_San_> Hello. Nov 17 05:19:26 Hi, _San_. Nov 17 05:19:36 The digitizer on the Z31 is shit, was on the last one too. Never stays in calibration long. Nov 17 05:20:07 <_San_> What is this place? Nov 17 05:20:14 zerojay, the transport for AIM is much nicer than the one from netlab.cz. Actually supports away status and UTF usernames. :) Nov 17 05:20:21 this is IRC _San_ Nov 17 05:20:40 <_San_> Yea, but what are you guys talking about here? Nov 17 05:20:41 This is the official room for the Nokia Internet Tablets (770, N800, N810) Nov 17 05:20:49 <_San_> Wtf is that? Nov 17 05:20:51 Well, more specifically, the maemo platform Nov 17 05:20:52 maemo.org Nov 17 05:21:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N800 Nov 17 05:21:08 Pft Nov 17 05:21:26 BTW, is maemo.org down? Nov 17 05:21:32 I love users like that Nov 17 05:22:08 captlloyd: maemo.org has been flakey since I started looking at it and it has been pretty much down all day today. Nov 17 05:22:23 It's been incredibly flacky today, captlloyd. Nov 17 05:22:34 GeneralAntilles: Yep, that's part of the reason I chose the server I did and didn't want to go with someone else serving it for us. Nov 17 05:23:17 GeneralAntilles: Dunno if display pictures are working on the tablets... but I think a fix for those is coming soon. Nov 17 05:23:28 No worries Nov 17 05:23:37 The little OS2008 generic dude looks good. :) Nov 17 05:24:11 hah Nov 17 05:26:24 OS2008 is so lickable. Nov 17 05:26:33 It's incredible. Nov 17 05:26:35 It's all Apple-y goodness. Nov 17 05:27:02 ...uh.. no. Nov 17 05:27:09 Hahaha Nov 17 05:27:27 The new Jabber-client icons remind me very much of iChat. ;) Nov 17 05:27:38 As soon as fbreader is ported, I'll upgrade :). Nov 17 05:27:47 It's out. Nov 17 05:28:26 Sigh, now I need to figure out how to do that :-). Guess I can install the installer in a wincrap vm. Nov 17 05:28:42 Fortunately I didn't do a lot to 2007 :). Nov 17 05:29:10 Why windows? Nov 17 05:29:11 In the 9 hours I have had it :) Nov 17 05:29:20 The best installer is on Linux. ;) Nov 17 05:29:30 That is what all the n800 stuff is for :-( (/me HATES wincrap). Nov 17 05:29:35 (well, excluding Jaffa's excellent flasher) Nov 17 05:29:49 The only thing you need desktop-side is the flasher Nov 17 05:30:02 which is available for Linux and OS X in a CLI form. Nov 17 05:30:08 Yes, but I don't normall run wincrap Nov 17 05:30:17 Ah, even BETTER! Nov 17 05:30:19 Ha Nov 17 05:30:22 I was going to say. >_> Nov 17 05:30:45 nokia N800 tablet updater linux Nov 17 05:30:53 ww Nov 17 05:31:10 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php Nov 17 05:32:32 flasher-3.0-static ? Nov 17 05:33:28 I'd just use flasher-3.0 Nov 17 05:33:37 but somebody more knowledgeable may have some input. Nov 17 05:33:49 Anybody got a Chumby Nov 17 05:33:53 Seems like the most useless thing ever. Nov 17 05:34:24 haha Nov 17 05:34:29 I got it running on Jablet. Nov 17 05:34:45 Working on allowing users to use their own channels. Nov 17 05:35:16 Oh man, Chumby, why did I bother paying almost $500 for an N810, that would've done everything I need! ;) Nov 17 05:35:28 Well, the flickr album is a little more revealing. Nov 17 05:38:21 The update appears to me on maemo, if so I am not going to be able to get it now. Nov 17 05:39:01 http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html Nov 17 05:41:42 # Go to the N810 software download page. Nov 17 05:41:47 n810? Nov 17 05:41:48 <_Monkey> i think n810 is a mixed blessing. sure it got gps and keyboard. but it got one less memory slot... Nov 17 05:42:06 I got an n800, will the 810 one work on the n800? Nov 17 05:42:15 yeah, and those cards are totally NOT removable Nov 17 05:42:15 I thought there was a special one for the n800? Nov 17 05:42:33 I thought they were, but so many people have been worrying about that that I assume they solder themselves in place on insertion Nov 17 05:42:56 No, K`zan. It's just the N810 image. Nov 17 05:44:21 err, yes, that is what I want, right? Nov 17 05:44:36 Yes. Nov 17 05:45:00 OK downloading it, should I back up what is on the n800 just in case horrible things happen? Nov 17 05:46:06 RX-44_2008SE_1.2007.42-18_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Nov 17 05:46:23 There is a 2007 one out there someplace, just in case, right? Nov 17 05:46:28 Yes Nov 17 05:46:32 Backup to save your settings, though. Nov 17 05:46:46 OK, pardon if I am a little nervious having had this for all of 9 hours now :) Nov 17 05:46:57 Ha Nov 17 05:47:07 Like I said before, over 2 dozen flashes on 3 devices. ;) Nov 17 05:47:22 Yes, but you are braver than I am ;-)! Nov 17 05:49:23 Good md5! Nov 17 05:49:31 here we go.... Nov 17 05:50:07 Man, browsing through Virtual Console really brings back memories. Nov 17 05:51:17 Sad that I've got more of those games on my PSP than Nintendo will put on VC. Nov 17 05:51:25 Hehe Nov 17 05:51:47 The best part of VC are the 64 ports that actually work right. Nov 17 05:52:33 Vibration is broken, I believe. Nov 17 05:53:02 Doesn't work on the computer, either. Nov 17 05:53:06 So I'm not worried. ;) Nov 17 05:53:09 Yes, it does. Nov 17 05:53:10 /home/vw/zdl/n800-2008} $ ./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode Nov 17 05:53:10 flasher v0.8.7 (Oct 17 2006) Nov 17 05:53:10 Suitable USB device not found, waiting Nov 17 05:53:19 It doesn't work OVER HERE. :) Nov 17 05:53:40 Hold home while powering up? Nov 17 05:53:53 Don't get Guitar Hero 3 for the Wii. Nov 17 05:54:07 I wouldn't buy Guitar Hero anything. Nov 17 05:54:08 Neversoft fucked up the build. Nov 17 05:54:09 err, no, it was just on. Killing and trying again... Nov 17 05:54:15 I have a real guitar and know how to play it. :D Nov 17 05:54:29 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, but that's nowhere near as fun. Nov 17 05:54:36 Ha Nov 17 05:54:42 See the South Park episode. Nov 17 05:54:44 I just bought a wii today Nov 17 05:55:00 Christmas present for the kids :) Nov 17 05:55:09 It's a fun one. :) Nov 17 05:55:21 Neversoft screwed up their final of GH3... the game says it supports all sorts of Dolby and so on... but the build has mono sound forced. Nov 17 05:55:34 Wii problem, only. Nov 17 05:55:41 Don't forget Twilight Princess, penguinbait. Nov 17 05:55:46 Which one is the "home" key? Nov 17 05:55:54 The one with the house? Nov 17 05:55:57 My kids love zelda Nov 17 05:56:10 Ah, says that is the swap key here Nov 17 05:56:20 I have yet to play a 3D version of Zelda that I've liked yet. Nov 17 05:56:25 has anyone played smash bros on wii Nov 17 05:56:27 On the quick start guide... Nov 17 05:56:32 I love smash bros Nov 17 05:56:33 penguinbait: Not out yet. Nov 17 05:56:43 it was at the store I was at today Nov 17 05:56:46 Smash is a great game, no doubt. Nov 17 05:56:46 It's not out, penguinbait. Nov 17 05:56:49 Next year. Nov 17 05:56:51 I didnt buy it though Nov 17 05:56:58 penguinbait: You probably saw the prerelease boxes. Nov 17 05:56:59 zerojay just hates Nintendo. :P Nov 17 05:57:05 Twilight Princess was epic Nov 17 05:57:10 Didn't work, seems to have come up normally... Nov 17 05:57:10 Ocarina was orgasmic Nov 17 05:57:13 Mario rules!!!! Nov 17 05:57:25 Majora's Mask was a little weird, but fun once you got used to it. Nov 17 05:57:25 GeneralAntilles: No, that's the problem.. I *love* Nintendo.. and that's why everything they've been doing recently has been just annoying me to no end. Nov 17 05:57:38 Windwaker was a little too weird Nov 17 05:57:41 but I enjoyed it. Nov 17 05:57:44 man Nov 17 05:57:54 Ocarina has got to be one of the greatest games of all time. Nov 17 05:57:54 The 3d Zelda games don't feel like Zelda to me. Nov 17 05:57:55 installing this sdk w/o an internet connection is brutal Nov 17 05:57:58 They just feel so generic. Nov 17 05:58:11 Dunno, I grew up on 3d Zelda Nov 17 05:58:17 So maybe my perceptions are a bit skewed. Nov 17 05:58:20 I grew up on the originals. Nov 17 05:58:29 I grew up on zelda NES Nov 17 05:58:31 hehe Nov 17 05:58:37 Nope, just comes up normally GeneralAntilles Nov 17 05:58:49 Same message... Nov 17 05:58:57 Lemme try some other keys Nov 17 05:59:06 Holding down power button and Home key at the same time? Nov 17 05:59:12 The 3d Zeldas, Mario Kart 64... pretty much around that time was when I started losing my faith in Nintendo. Nov 17 05:59:24 Ha Nov 17 05:59:24 If that is the same as the swap key, yes. Nov 17 05:59:30 Mario Kart was another genius game. Nov 17 05:59:38 The original, yes. Nov 17 05:59:38 It's got a little house on it. ;) Nov 17 05:59:39 I love mario Kart Nov 17 05:59:42 The very bottom one. Nov 17 05:59:48 All of the rule Nov 17 05:59:48 64, I mean. ;) Nov 17 05:59:49 The GBA versions were also very good. Nov 17 06:00:00 The 64 version was probably the disappointment of my life. Nov 17 06:00:11 super/64/DS/CUBE Nov 17 06:00:13 Yep, hold that, push power and it just comes up and I get the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" message Nov 17 06:00:30 Yeesh Nov 17 06:00:33 all rule, I loved kart on snes when it came out Nov 17 06:00:38 I played HUNDREDS of hours of Mario Kart 64 Nov 17 06:00:44 I STILL play it every once and a while. Nov 17 06:00:47 Push power and then hit the home key? Nov 17 06:00:53 No, push them at the same time. Nov 17 06:00:54 the ds is pretty sweet when playing with the kids Nov 17 06:00:57 DS version's alright. Double Dash having the problem where the character positions don't affect the handling of the cart killed it for me. Nov 17 06:01:17 GeneralAntilles: I don't know how you could have played it that much. I found that game so dog slow and easy. Nov 17 06:01:29 Ah, OK, I was pushing home and then power... Nov 17 06:01:53 Multiplayer Nov 17 06:01:54 I remember putting it on for the first time at work (when I was working at a game store) and thinking "oh my god.. it is blurred to all hell and runs at like 10 frames a second" Nov 17 06:02:01 that, smash, and goldeneye Nov 17 06:02:11 Smash and Goldeneye were great. Nov 17 06:02:11 Nope Nov 17 06:02:15 Dunno, maybe I was just young. Nov 17 06:02:27 Goldeneye doesn't hold up well these days though. Nov 17 06:02:31 Hehe, no Nov 17 06:02:32 new dosbox deb is up. autostarts xkbd. Nov 17 06:02:39 but it was the beginning of console FPS Nov 17 06:02:43 Proximity mines were my favorite. Nov 17 06:02:48 GeneralAntilles: Could the charger being plugged in be hosing this? Nov 17 06:02:58 Could be Nov 17 06:02:58 K`zan: Yes. Nov 17 06:03:12 Ah, unplugging and trying again, thanks much! Nov 17 06:03:20 K`zan: You are supposed to have a full battery and have your tablet unplugged from the power outlet. Nov 17 06:03:20 I was trying to get Windows 311 running on dosbox, it gets through install but dies on starting windows during setup Nov 17 06:03:37 I guess I had to much time on my hands Nov 17 06:03:44 Worked, next step... Nov 17 06:03:47 I still play the 64 version of Smash occasionally on my Xbox. Nov 17 06:04:16 It's pretty good Nov 17 06:04:20 Melee is a little more nuanced. Nov 17 06:04:22 I play 64 smash on PC Nov 17 06:04:32 My friends all destroy me in it though. Nov 17 06:04:37 They compete in tournaments and such. Nov 17 06:05:00 Yeah, people got really hardcore about that game which is funny because it's meant to be the complete opposite. Nov 17 06:05:09 My kids are getting older, my 14 year old buy whips my butt in everything :( Nov 17 06:05:49 Ha Nov 17 06:06:24 Ah thats what I get for yelling in your face to a 4 year old Nov 17 06:06:26 lol Nov 17 06:07:05 I'm not doing that again after the last time. Nov 17 06:07:23 I was joking around, acting like a poor winner on purpose just to see what my 7 year old would do. Nov 17 06:07:30 He straight punched me in the balls. Nov 17 06:07:34 Worked, thanks MUCH everyone! Nov 17 06:07:36 oof Nov 17 06:07:52 and at his height.. perfect alignment. Nov 17 06:07:53 Now I need a clever device name other than Nokia N800 :) Nov 17 06:08:11 I called mine crack whore one day. Nov 17 06:08:25 Something I assume you can change? Nov 17 06:08:35 And since BT is so extensively used at work, everyone was asking "who the fuck is crack whore?" Nov 17 06:08:38 Yep. Nov 17 06:08:39 mine is sneaky Nov 17 06:08:52 my firewall is sleepy Nov 17 06:09:03 it up all the time :) Nov 17 06:09:06 Witch3 :-) as I don't know witch1 it is :) Nov 17 06:09:08 Heh. Nov 17 06:09:11 Hahaha, zerojay. Nov 17 06:09:14 BT on the N800 is fun. Nov 17 06:09:29 I was in Montreal at an open wireless hotspot in a mall. Nov 17 06:09:38 Lots of people around with laptops, obviously. Nov 17 06:09:45 Someone was sending out mp3s. Nov 17 06:10:01 So I took one mp3 I had and renamed it 1.mp3 and sent it out to everyone. Nov 17 06:10:19 This phone selection I can do anytime, right. I doubt I will ever use it... Nov 17 06:10:20 One by one, just about every computer had The Price Is Right theme blaring. Nov 17 06:10:25 Everyone was looking around confused. Nov 17 06:10:28 It was awesome. Nov 17 06:12:18 penguinbait: that may be when it switches to protected mode - you may have to switch cpu from 'simple' to full Nov 17 06:12:27 Success! Thanks GeneralAntilles and zerojay ! Nov 17 06:13:58 Haha Nov 17 06:14:03 Sure thing, K`zan. Nov 17 06:19:54 GeneralAntilles: Sigh, where did I find the stuff to enter a static IP again? Nov 17 06:20:14 Control Panel->connectivity isn't it... Nov 17 06:21:42 Found it.. Nov 17 06:25:00 In the "Start" menu Nov 17 06:25:03 Connection Manager Nov 17 06:46:28 Now to find fbreader :0 Nov 17 06:46:51 http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php Nov 17 06:47:00 maemo 4.x Nov 17 06:48:17 dubapgewap... Nov 17 06:48:19 Thankee Sir! Nov 17 06:55:19 GeneralAntilles: Is there a point to adding all those repositories? Would seem so at this point?!? Nov 17 06:55:30 You might as well. Nov 17 06:55:40 Ok, wilco, thanks! Nov 17 06:55:40 Or just exclude the ones with software you don't want. Nov 17 06:56:09 No idea at this point, better to have them and not need them ... :-) Nov 17 06:58:47 Hummm, browser went toast. Nov 17 06:59:35 remind me to set a bookmark before going to play :-) Nov 17 07:06:30 No xchat yet and no camera, but I suspect those won't be long in coming :). Nov 17 07:06:47 GeneralAntilles: Again, really appreciate all your help with this! Nov 17 07:07:01 It's really a selfish act. ;) Nov 17 07:07:18 More happy maemo users means a larger userbase means more developers means more applications for me. :P Nov 17 07:07:19 Understand, get 'em addicted and all sorts of good stuff can happen :) Nov 17 07:07:33 Well, this does solve one problem :-)! Nov 17 07:07:56 zerojay: how did sending 1.mp3 make it play on other computers? Nov 17 07:08:14 I don't have to thrash on which development system to install, safe to say it can now be 2008 :-). Nov 17 07:08:46 Lets see if FBreader can get my library right twice in 2008 :). Nov 17 07:08:53 i want to write a native robotron clone sometime Nov 17 07:09:16 but it's all so pointless without decent dpads Nov 17 07:09:58 I want glom for it now :). Nov 17 07:10:24 what is glom? Nov 17 07:10:52 match the tile kind of game, had it on my palms for ages now :). Nov 17 07:11:06 ukmp better than media player? Nov 17 07:11:12 Mahjong? Nov 17 07:11:32 More like gather all the same kind of tiles together for max points. Nov 17 07:11:40 together than you can... Nov 17 07:13:33 K`zan, palm game? Nov 17 07:13:35 boingomobile something that is important? Nov 17 07:13:40 zoran: yes. Nov 17 07:13:54 there is beta of some palm vm emulator Nov 17 07:13:59 Probably something similar out there someplace. Just an OLD habit :-) Nov 17 07:14:38 You don't need boingo Nov 17 07:14:44 Too much hassle to drag the laptop with me to see what is out there that is open wireless, nothing right around here, so I have no idea what I need... Nov 17 07:14:50 It's a pay wifi hotspot thing. Nov 17 07:14:51 GeneralAntilles: Thanks! Nov 17 07:15:05 Ah, we avoid those if possible :). Nov 17 07:15:35 Ok, enough packing the device for the night :), time to play some :-). Nov 17 07:15:45 If remember getting stuck in the Atlanta airport for 8 hours Nov 17 07:15:58 paid $6 for 24-hour wifi access Nov 17 07:15:58 Yeah, that airport sucks... Nov 17 07:16:04 Lived there for a long time. Nov 17 07:16:15 Bittorrent ran at, like, 1MB down and 1MB up Nov 17 07:16:18 it was ridiculous Nov 17 07:16:21 Funny story on the airport, if you are interested? Nov 17 07:16:31 Go. Nov 17 07:16:36 Yeah, anything to do with fartsfield is gonna be a fiasco... Nov 17 07:16:56 When they built the airport they were HOT for minority "art"... Nov 17 07:17:10 Some of the construction people got offended... Nov 17 07:17:11 Ha Nov 17 07:17:36 They put up some construction trash on the wall and told the airport management that they did it, but not where.... Nov 17 07:17:54 Last I heard, they still haven't found it :-). Nov 17 07:17:55 Hahaha Nov 17 07:18:00 That's beautiful. Nov 17 07:18:28 I particularly liked the $150K artist drop cloth on the wall of the federal building down there... Nov 17 07:18:52 It's amazing what stupid people in high places will pay. Nov 17 07:18:53 Yep, IMNSHO if the gov has to support art, it isn't... Nov 17 07:19:10 Yep, PC/SC is a virtulent disease... Nov 17 07:19:28 govt spending our money is the disease imo Nov 17 07:19:38 No kidding. Nov 17 07:19:39 Yep, agree 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000% :-) Nov 17 07:20:19 I've got 11 hours of video on my SD cards now Nov 17 07:20:22 i mean if a private company does it, i can choose not to use their product Nov 17 07:20:30 Hopefully that'll be enough to get me to California on Sunday. Nov 17 07:20:37 Yep, real art supports itself. Nov 17 07:20:37 (connecting through Atlanta :() Nov 17 07:20:43 My sympathy... Nov 17 07:20:57 That place is a shithole only second to scabattle... Nov 17 07:21:08 Worst part is Nov 17 07:21:13 I normally fly out of Tampa Nov 17 07:21:20 Which is, like, the greatest airport on the planet Nov 17 07:21:28 Still, wow... Nov 17 07:21:34 and going from there to Atlanta is just unbearable. Nov 17 07:21:43 Atlanta has delusions of grandur... Nov 17 07:23:30 Fly of of Tallahassee regional this weekend Nov 17 07:23:34 We'll see how it goes. Nov 17 07:23:43 Never been in so small an airport Nov 17 07:25:09 I used to fly for a living and it got real old after about 5 years. Nov 17 07:25:33 Come home on weekend (maybe) wash clothes, be at airport at 0500 monday morning... Nov 17 07:25:51 Was a lot of fun for a while though. Nov 17 07:26:02 Commercial? Nov 17 07:26:09 Unfortunaltely Nov 17 07:26:13 Hehe Nov 17 07:26:16 With what carrier? Nov 17 07:26:20 Riding the bus... Nov 17 07:26:48 Ohm I was flying all over for a living, not a RL pilot, I only do that on PCs :) Nov 17 07:26:57 Oh, I was flying all over for a living, not a RL pilot, I only do that on PCs :) Nov 17 07:27:09 Haha Nov 17 07:27:11 Right, right. >_> Nov 17 07:27:13 Next week I learn to type. Nov 17 07:27:30 I wouldn't even fly for my own travel anymore. Nov 17 07:27:43 I only fly about once every two years. Nov 17 07:27:50 Cool, blue light flashes when it goes into standby now :). Nov 17 07:28:01 You'll get tired of that very quickly Nov 17 07:28:04 especially at night. Nov 17 07:28:15 You install openssh yet? Nov 17 07:28:22 Somewhere around the 1980s, I finally figured out security was a joke and quit doing that to myself. Nov 17 07:28:47 Not yet, but probably will - seems a lot of work until I get a BT keyboard though. Nov 17 07:29:05 The idea is to ssh into the device from a real machine. Nov 17 07:29:07 I use that a lot. Nov 17 07:29:20 Ah, that makes more sense - server AND client... Nov 17 07:29:29 Installing now :-). Nov 17 07:29:44 There's a fun little trick in /etc/mce/mce.ini Nov 17 07:30:36 ?? Nov 17 07:30:49 Client installing now. Nov 17 07:30:59 soft poweroff Nov 17 07:31:25 Server... Nov 17 07:31:25 <_Monkey> server is temporarily unable to service my request. Please try again later. Nov 17 07:31:38 maemo.org? Nov 17 07:31:48 Did you enable the extras repo? Nov 17 07:31:51 It comes disabled. Nov 17 07:32:01 There's a little check box in its edit dialog. Nov 17 07:32:02 Dunno, lemme look Nov 17 07:32:20 There should be a meta package for both server and client. Nov 17 07:32:44 server seems hung... Nov 17 07:32:51 there it goes, done. Nov 17 07:33:12 Takes forever to generate keys. Nov 17 07:33:18 It was disabled. Nov 17 07:33:23 Fixed it, thanks! Nov 17 07:33:48 234 people on this channel is impressive considering the time these have been out. Nov 17 07:33:56 Hehe Nov 17 07:33:57 Well Nov 17 07:34:02 If you consider the audience. Nov 17 07:34:17 don't forget bouncers Nov 17 07:34:19 The 770 was specifically targeted at hardcore Linux users. Nov 17 07:34:36 bullseye imo Nov 17 07:34:50 I'm an installing fool! :-) Nov 17 07:35:04 No kidding. Nov 17 07:35:18 I don't even remember where I first saw the 770 Nov 17 07:35:24 but I preordered day 1 Nov 17 07:36:23 Hummm, openssh listed again now, I presume I don't want to do that... Nov 17 07:36:24 wow Nov 17 07:36:55 If it were not for the RS-MMC cards, I would have probably had a 770 rather than the 800. Nov 17 07:37:17 The N800 is SO much better than the 770. Nov 17 07:37:53 Yes, except for physical considerations, 770 seemed MUCH more robust physically. Nov 17 07:38:36 The case is a big plus Nov 17 07:38:43 i can understand them dropping the case for aesthetics, but it's so darn practical Nov 17 07:38:50 But overall build strength is about the same. Nov 17 07:38:55 The N800 is quite solid. Nov 17 07:39:02 argh, which repos has all that gcompris stuff in it? Nov 17 07:39:32 More than I expected, once I get a decent case for it, I'll probably feel a lot better. Nov 17 07:40:41 Haha Nov 17 07:40:43 Extras Nov 17 07:40:43 <_Monkey> Extras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free") Nov 17 07:40:46 and you definitely want that. Nov 17 07:41:14 Games for kids? Nov 17 07:41:21 OK, if you say so :). Nov 17 07:42:08 At the rate I am going I am starting to wonder if that 128 meg is going to cut it for long. Would be nice to be able to use some of the SD cards for apps... Nov 17 07:42:38 kagu better than media player? Nov 17 07:43:10 the popular players are kagu, ukmp and canola Nov 17 07:44:00 Are any of them significantly better than media player? Nov 17 07:44:11 Yes and no. Nov 17 07:44:16 * K`zan already getting paranoid about space... Nov 17 07:44:25 duno i'm waiting for something lite like xmms/winamp Nov 17 07:44:26 Nah, internal space wont be an issue. Nov 17 07:44:26 what space? Nov 17 07:44:27 <_Monkey> hmmm... space is relative Nov 17 07:44:43 Seriously, I've never managed to file up the internal with apps Nov 17 07:44:47 and I install a lot of apps. Nov 17 07:44:50 only 128m for apps, right? Nov 17 07:44:51 Delete the manuals, though. Nov 17 07:44:58 Those take up a ton of space. Nov 17 07:45:08 Or move them to the SD cards where I am WALLOWING :-) Nov 17 07:45:10 or make links from internal memory to the card Nov 17 07:46:08 Ohh, yes! One can do that with this, yummie :)! Nov 17 07:47:23 Love that terminal :-)!! Nov 17 07:49:31 fbreader will not pick up my library on /media/mmc1/ebooks/ :-( Nov 17 07:50:19 Maybe indexing, would be nice to have a spinner to let one know it is doing something though. Nov 17 07:51:06 No Nov 17 07:51:14 FBReader never picked up my library very well automatically Nov 17 07:51:19 Just add 'em by hand Nov 17 07:51:26 You'll want to change the attributes, anyway. Nov 17 07:51:53 Ah, yes, might be permissions problems... checking Nov 17 07:55:00 Hummm, what is the root password... Nov 17 07:55:37 rootme Nov 17 07:55:38 <_Monkey> hmmm... rootme is the default pw? Nov 17 07:55:39 change it asap Nov 17 07:55:40 <_Monkey> GeneralAntilles: that doesn't look right Nov 17 07:56:17 Hummm, not letting me su Nov 17 07:57:12 How the hell do you change it if you can't su Nov 17 07:57:31 Not feeling so good about installing ssh at the moment :) Nov 17 07:57:48 sudo gainroot Nov 17 07:59:30 Thanks ! Done. Nov 17 08:00:25 Wonder if I need to set up a user for myself or just stay user:users Nov 17 08:03:03 Keep it the normal user Nov 17 08:03:07 anything else will break shit. Nov 17 08:04:00 OK, wilco. Nov 17 08:04:22 Root can't change uid:gid on the SD cards, WTF?!? Nov 17 08:05:00 chown mmc1 Operation not permitted Nov 17 08:05:16 Yep, I'm root. Nov 17 08:05:29 Maybe corrupted. Nov 17 08:06:11 Hummm, formatted them under 2007 and then USB mounted them to the desktop and loaded them up... Nov 17 08:06:23 2007 format NG with 2008?!? Nov 17 08:06:34 ls works right... Nov 17 08:06:50 Removable media is finicky Nov 17 08:06:58 Even if the transfer is "done" it's not actually done. Nov 17 08:07:04 Dunno, though. Nov 17 08:07:22 Generally speaking, you shouldn't need to mess with permissions on the removable stuff, anyway. Nov 17 08:07:38 Or, maybe, you accidentally turned on the read only tab Nov 17 08:07:38 ls -lR looks OK, but yes. I thought I did a "safely remove" though. Nov 17 08:07:41 Hard to say. Nov 17 08:09:02 you would need to change mount options Nov 17 08:11:30 Morning, all Nov 17 08:11:31 Nope, OK. Nov 17 08:11:56 Anyway, I'm beat, gonna go fall over. Thanks for all the help, MUCH appreciated! Nov 17 08:12:05 Night all, rest well! Nov 17 08:12:12 'nigght Nov 17 08:12:26 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz :-) Nov 17 08:19:47 Gah, Garage is - once again - fscked: http://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=1867 - just hangs. Nov 17 08:25:04 Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 17 08:25:09 "Maemo.org is too fragile." Nov 17 08:25:34 I made generic bug about that. Some part is always broken and it starts to annoy me.. Nov 17 08:29:21 hooray.. zsh for maemo 4.0 :-) Nov 17 08:32:19 mornink Nov 17 09:53:33 game? Nov 17 09:53:34 <_Monkey> hmmm... game is being done in javascript, if I don't have a pixel buffer to prepare svg graphics at the beginning of a level instead of when it comes on screen, I'll have to substitute with prerendered png sprite sheets. Nov 17 10:00:12 Anyone tried Frothing and compared it to osso-rss-reader (which is also based on Liferea): http://ianlawrence.info/random-stuff/a-port-of-liferea-for-mobile-linux-handheld-devices Nov 17 11:24:39 Hi Nov 17 11:24:40 <_Monkey> que tal, keesj Nov 17 12:03:00 Hello Nov 17 12:03:07 Hola, _Monkey . Nov 17 12:03:07 <_Monkey> hey, DRoBeR Nov 17 12:03:41 Cómo va la cosa? :) Nov 17 12:03:59 Hallo, florian . Nov 17 12:04:15 hi all Nov 17 12:05:17 Is it frequently to loss the language translation in OS2007? Sometimes I got the problem that my N800 shows me just the "variable_name" instead of its translation to Spanish :) Nov 17 12:06:48 DRoBeR: I use German translation on one device, but I haven't seen this effect so far. Nov 17 12:07:01 But in the SDK that happened some times... Nov 17 12:49:11 still no maemo.org??? Nov 17 12:49:18 hmm. has someone made a small panel applet to sync the time on an IT using ntpdate or similar? Nov 17 12:49:40 or statusbar applet would do as well. or at least something. Nov 17 12:50:09 Danke schön, florian . Nov 17 12:50:20 How do you correct it? Nov 17 12:50:55 czr, would a daemon not do it? Nov 17 12:51:15 alterego, sentence does not compute. what do you mean? (and hello too :-) Nov 17 12:51:36 Would a daemon started by a boot script not do the job for you? Nov 17 12:51:45 Hello :) Nov 17 12:51:56 daemon that checks if the network is available and too long has passed since the previous update, then run ntpdate. Or something. Nov 17 12:52:16 I think ideally it would be configurable through the control panel too .. Nov 17 12:52:25 alterego: usually the network is not yet during the bootup, I think Nov 17 12:52:45 alterego, well, something like that. but I'd rather just have it do the sync when necessary Nov 17 12:52:46 kulve, it's a daemon, that doesn't matter. Nov 17 12:52:51 not causing network traffic by itself Nov 17 12:53:11 could also have a list of servers to use so that one could select one based on the location Nov 17 12:53:23 since public ntp servers are sometimes undesireable, and so on. Nov 17 12:53:26 Well, if you're clever about it you can get it to only sync when asked to when connected through a phone. Nov 17 12:53:33 Where as it'd have free roam on WiFi Nov 17 12:53:43 I don't want a free roam on wifi Nov 17 12:53:44 milhouse: if you don't like the stability of the maemo.org, vote in bug #2308. Nov 17 12:53:45 <_Monkey> Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 17 12:54:15 thanks kulve Nov 17 12:54:52 Right, that's lunch out-of-the-way. Nov 17 12:54:58 Time to get done and dirty. Nov 17 12:55:20 czr, if I manage to get ruby desktop plugins working I'll write one for you ;) Nov 17 12:55:59 when did maemo.org go down (roughly)? Nov 17 12:56:35 alterego, heh. ok Nov 17 12:57:26 Maybe I'm compiling my loader wrong. But hildon desktop doesn't see my plugin loader :( Nov 17 12:57:36 milhouse: hmm.. I was working for me a second ago, but now it's again gone.. Nov 17 12:57:53 bugzilla seems to respond Nov 17 12:58:09 "It was working.." Nov 17 12:59:25 looking back through the chats it seems to have disappeared about 9pm uk time last night Nov 17 12:59:36 czr, did you read my post in response to that python extension problem? I didn't realise how tired I was O_O Nov 17 12:59:51 kulve - what ip do you have for maemo.org? my dns returns 62.61.85.38 which is unpingable Nov 17 13:00:07 alterego, not recently. when did you send it? :-) Nov 17 13:00:18 That night you forwarded it to me. Nov 17 13:01:14 milhouse: same here. The bugzilla has .75 and it doesn't respond to ping either, even though it responds to http Nov 17 13:02:31 yeah good point pings could be ignored Nov 17 13:02:50 but not getting any http response to maemo.org here Nov 17 13:02:56 bugzilla is fine Nov 17 13:05:50 maemo.org was fine about an hour ago Nov 17 13:06:02 i missed it Nov 17 13:06:21 It broke when I was using it in the bath. Nov 17 13:06:29 Maybe I got my N800 wet!! Nov 17 13:06:48 are you hosting maemo.org on it? Nov 17 13:07:02 Not as far as I know Nov 17 13:07:29 keep it away from the bath just to be sure, ok? Nov 17 13:07:34 Okay Nov 17 13:07:56 I was hoping the N810 would be available yesterday :( Nov 17 13:08:36 * DRoBeR is away: out of order Nov 17 13:18:25 * alterego dispairs. Nov 17 13:19:04 * Jaffa was hoping for an N810 and a letter telling him about his promotion/payrise. Nov 17 13:20:07 Hah Nov 17 13:20:13 That's not my problem Nov 17 13:20:21 I still can't get my ruby desktop plugin code to work. Nov 17 13:20:35 hildon-desktop doesn't seem to find my plugin loader :( Nov 17 13:20:44 Try harder/better, then. ;) Nov 17 13:20:59 I'm sifting through the hildon-desktop plugin source as we speak O_O Nov 17 13:21:44 I've just found the code that displays the "Unknown Plugin Loader type: %s" message. Nov 17 13:22:10 If anyone happens to know the location of the code that actually _loads_ the plugin loaders .. Nov 17 13:23:21 Nice, found it :) Nov 17 13:23:27 alterego, you should always look for the single source file that looks to be least related to the thing. Nov 17 13:23:32 alterego: it'd put me in a good mood and so I'd finish off the next version of tablet-encode with shiny new features (such as video bitrate efficiency, audio track copying, multiple file support, ...) Nov 17 13:23:55 anyone got bootmenu installed on an device running os2008? Nov 17 13:24:24 i'm trying to narrow down why my device keeps losing it's buttons all the time... maybe it's bootmenu (which i have installed)? Nov 17 13:24:44 * czr gives some glue to milhouse Nov 17 13:27:20 maybe you got an apostrophe stuck under the keypad Nov 17 13:27:49 ahhahahaha*cough* Nov 17 13:27:59 :-) Nov 17 13:28:03 :/ Nov 17 13:28:06 weekend irc is the bestest Nov 17 13:28:07 That's not good. Nov 17 13:50:30 Hmmm .. Nov 17 13:50:35 This code should work .. Nov 17 13:50:37 * alterego cries .. Nov 17 13:50:55 have you found anyone to blame yet? Nov 17 13:51:22 Lucos Rocha for not properly documenting the system :P Nov 17 13:51:46 Or Karoliina for not making him document it properly. Nov 17 13:52:05 * czr could go couple of steps higher too :-) Nov 17 13:52:18 but yeah, you can start with them :-) Nov 17 13:52:24 I think I'll write a little program that attempts to load it and see what happens. Nov 17 13:54:33 I could just rewrite the plugin loader factory ;) Nov 17 13:55:04 What's up with maemo.org site? Nov 17 13:55:11 konttori_, it's broken Nov 17 13:55:15 Is anybody working on it? Nov 17 13:55:20 * czr shrugs Nov 17 13:55:21 Probably not. Nov 17 13:55:25 It's Saturday. Nov 17 13:55:27 someone else complained about it here just some time ago Nov 17 13:55:29 Hey, this is sad. Nov 17 13:55:37 alterego dropped the server in the bath tube. Nov 17 13:55:40 Nokia hosting people should be working 24/7 Nov 17 13:55:40 *-e Nov 17 13:55:41 konttori_, alterego is already crying Nov 17 13:55:48 konttori_, it's not hosted by nokia Nov 17 13:56:03 yeah, so even the more reason that they shoulod be working on it 24/7 Nov 17 13:56:27 heh Nov 17 13:56:36 maybe N gets what it pays for. Nov 17 13:56:47 * czr shrugs Nov 17 13:57:01 konttori_: #2308, please vote, if you don't like the current situation.. Nov 17 13:57:02 I mean, if they are a hosting company, they usually actually have contracts that define how long the downtime can be at worst Nov 17 13:57:23 link? Nov 17 13:57:29 bug #2308 Nov 17 13:57:30 <_Monkey> Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 17 13:57:31 Is the server down or just http? Nov 17 13:57:44 konttori_, why do you assume it's a hosting company? Nov 17 13:58:17 Well, as any sane company outsources hosting to a company who has a hosting center Nov 17 13:58:28 whois 62.61.85.75 Nov 17 13:58:31 descr: CiderCone Oy Nov 17 13:58:45 konttori_, sane? :-) Nov 17 13:58:46 indeed Nov 17 13:59:08 hosting centers can then have even higher security and have the means to track and update all of the servers 24/7. Because they have so many servers there, then it's ok to keep people htere 24/7 Nov 17 13:59:12 hey, it's free software, hosting services for it is bound to be free as well ;-) Nov 17 13:59:28 yeah. let's torrent the server ;) Nov 17 14:00:09 konttori_, I doubt anyone really questions your points. and yes, 24/7 support does exist. but you have to pay money to get service :-) Nov 17 14:00:53 * czr thinks that prisons should start running hosting services. they keep people there 24/7 anyway. Nov 17 14:01:24 Well, the last company that I worked in hosted their servers in a bank hosting facility and it was still only hundreds of euros a month per server. Nov 17 14:01:44 * alterego wonders why people use if(module != NULL) instead of if(module) .. Nov 17 14:01:45 konttori_, and? :-) Nov 17 14:01:54 alterego, because it's more clear. Nov 17 14:02:00 alterego, one doesn't have to think what module is Nov 17 14:02:09 Hmm .. Nov 17 14:02:11 with NULL it's evident that it is a pointer. Nov 17 14:02:35 So you think I should adopt that style? Nov 17 14:02:48 alterego, you don't work for me, I don't read your code. I don't know :-) Nov 17 14:02:57 just gave you rationale why someone might use that style :-) Nov 17 14:03:10 Hmm, if I did work for you what would you say? Nov 17 14:03:17 yes, you should adopt it. Nov 17 14:03:19 "You're fired!" ^_^ Nov 17 14:03:28 Okay Nov 17 14:03:28 and you should stop bugging me during weekends with work-related stuff! Nov 17 14:03:30 :-) Nov 17 14:03:36 Hah Nov 17 14:04:20 * czr misread one google advert as "longest range linux wifi: 500 MW USB wireless adapter" Nov 17 14:04:27 that would be something indeed. Nov 17 14:04:39 Heh Nov 17 14:04:56 and surely it would be longest range too Nov 17 14:06:35 does http://www.maemo.org/ woks? Nov 17 14:06:40 i get an error;/ Nov 17 14:06:42 the protocol might have problems with latency though, communicating to mars Nov 17 14:06:45 Unable to forward this request at this time. Nov 17 14:07:06 bug #2308 Nov 17 14:07:06 <_Monkey> Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 17 14:07:43 cofeinesunshine, remember to vote the bug to be fixed :-) Nov 17 14:09:08 deal!;] Nov 17 14:11:21 that bug is meant to tell the nokia that it has always been too often broken. Not to fix some specific issue relating to this current issue Nov 17 14:11:38 that's why it probably needs quite a lot of votes to be noticed Nov 17 14:12:51 Does it have many votes? Nov 17 14:13:05 Who wants to go door-to-door with me? :P Nov 17 14:13:32 You can post on ITT, maemo-users maemo-developers Nov 17 14:13:41 blog on planet :) Nov 17 14:13:46 That'll get people voting :) Nov 17 14:14:03 no one can read the planet while the site is down.. :) Nov 17 14:14:25 Obviously, but the site doesn't have to be down to vote for the site being a fragile POS :) Nov 17 14:14:40 The bug says weekly. Shall I file another bug for the daily breakages? Nov 17 14:14:42 'worksforme' Nov 17 14:21:31 I find gpointer quite confusing .. Nov 17 14:21:40 alterego, why? Nov 17 14:21:45 I don't understand why they don't just say (void *) Nov 17 14:21:51 less characters .. Nov 17 14:21:53 for completeness Nov 17 14:22:07 Meh Nov 17 14:22:29 I don't think Meh is compatible with (void *) Nov 17 14:22:39 maybe gconstchar ;-) Nov 17 14:22:42 it is if I define it as void* :P Nov 17 14:23:27 Not having access to my garage-based website is really irritating when I'm trying to finish off a mediautils release. Nov 17 14:23:38 :/ Nov 17 14:23:53 not having access to the howtos is a problem for me when doing the material update. bleh Nov 17 14:24:04 alterego is the gpointer a typedef for (void *) ? Nov 17 14:24:04 is there a mirror of the howtos (4.0) somewhere? Nov 17 14:24:12 But what if it's supposed to be be "void __far *"? You never know when you might want to do that 16-bit Win3.11 port. Nov 17 14:24:17 Luckily I checked out the source for the modules I'm working with in the maemo svn :) Nov 17 14:24:23 kaltsi, yes. Nov 17 14:24:29 derf, you'd know when you'd want to, I guarantee that ;-) Nov 17 14:24:45 Yes, I do. Nov 17 14:25:09 btw, anyone aware of a 16-bit free c compiler? Nov 17 14:25:17 one that works and supports more or less modern C? Nov 17 14:25:24 it makes sense to typedef all the library's types so that if one day for whatever reasons (portability for example) you need to redefine the type then all the code using would just have to be recompiled and not recoded.. Nov 17 14:25:25 (for x86) Nov 17 14:25:39 google cache, czr? Nov 17 14:25:50 GeneralAntilles, ah, good hint. will try Nov 17 14:26:04 Redefining void* .. Interesting. Nov 17 14:26:15 no, redefining gpointer Nov 17 14:26:25 Example? Nov 17 14:26:32 typedef char* gpointer? Nov 17 14:26:37 ye :) Nov 17 14:26:38 I don't see that happening somehow. Nov 17 14:26:57 alterego, more likely than your Meh though :-) Nov 17 14:27:06 Yes, probably. Nov 17 14:27:16 We'll see what glib3 looks like ;) Nov 17 14:27:26 preparing for the unknown .. who knows Nov 17 14:27:33 czr: I'd start looking at lcc or tcc as a starting point. Nov 17 14:27:34 argh. google cache doesn't find the file. not even sure it exists though (3.x does) Nov 17 14:27:40 Jaffa, tcc is 32-bit Nov 17 14:28:17 lcc also seems to be 32-bit only Nov 17 14:28:28 Maybe coral cache, too, czr. Nov 17 14:28:35 czr: doh Nov 17 14:28:53 On a related note. I'm happy to use gpointer .. But I've seen a lot of hildon code use (void*) casts etc instead of gpointer .. Nov 17 14:29:04 You can still download Turbo C++ 1.01. Nov 17 14:29:11 there was something that bruce perens wrote ages ago, but it's kind of klunky. Nov 17 14:29:17 don't recall the name. Nov 17 14:29:25 derf, heh. but it's not free :-) Nov 17 14:29:30 I'm staring at a line now that really should be (gpointer) and not (void*) as the method it's calling defines the parameter as a gpointer .. Nov 17 14:29:34 czr: It's free as in beer. Nov 17 14:29:43 So portability out-the-window :P Nov 17 14:29:43 derf, which isn't free enough for me. Nov 17 14:29:51 Well, write your own, then. Nov 17 14:30:01 alterego: that's a bug then if one wants to be anal Nov 17 14:30:10 I'm not complaining damn it. just wanted some hints whether anyone knew of one. Nov 17 14:30:34 I don't even think there was one in the 90's when people still used DOS. Nov 17 14:31:18 * czr nods Nov 17 14:31:49 DJGPP was the first free compiler I remember hearing about for DOS, and it was for 32-bit protected mode. Nov 17 14:32:09 well, the compiler doesn't have to be for dos really. 16-bit x86. Nov 17 14:32:22 (for doing stuff that runs on top of the legacy bios cruft) Nov 17 14:32:26 There aren't that many 16-bit DOS operating systems. Nov 17 14:32:33 Err, 16-bit x86 OSes. Nov 17 14:32:41 bios. Nov 17 14:32:58 hmm. coral pulls nothing with maemo.org Nov 17 14:34:16 Looks like you need to get yourself a time machine. Nov 17 14:34:25 Could you pull a copy of OS2009 while you're out? Nov 17 14:34:41 it was using windows. you really want it? Nov 17 14:34:59 * GeneralAntilles kills himself. Nov 17 14:35:24 hmm. what is the correct form of "be" when referring to past that happens in the future? (as in the time-machine problem) Nov 17 14:36:03 'bwas' Nov 17 14:36:37 will be? Nov 17 14:36:48 will have been .. Nov 17 14:36:50 alterego, no, that normal future Nov 17 14:37:21 hmm. bwas sounds klunky. Nov 17 14:37:35 Consult your Douglas Adams. Nov 17 14:37:42 :) Nov 17 14:37:55 ah, good hint. Nov 17 14:38:57 Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so Nov 17 14:38:59 :P Nov 17 14:39:54 time might be, deadlines are not :-) Nov 17 14:41:16 bleh. I found the doc in google cache. but it doesn't want to open it at all. Nov 17 14:42:07 ah. firefox to the rescue. Nov 17 14:42:13 deadlines suck Nov 17 14:43:39 the newest maemo.org thingies in webarchive are from august 07 so that's no good either Nov 17 14:45:24 Anybody got Quim's homephone? :P Nov 17 14:45:55 hmm. is the symlink necessary with 4.0 for the others-menu? Nov 17 14:45:58 "HAI QUIM, ur websitez down!" Nov 17 14:46:08 (via the debian package package.links file) Nov 17 14:46:18 s/others/extras/ Nov 17 14:48:12 hmm. actually I think I've already asked this question before Nov 17 14:48:22 and the consensus was that "no" and "howtos suck" Nov 17 14:50:03 Any 770-encode users who want to test the latest version with muchos new features: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/#encode (since garage is down) Nov 17 14:53:31 --list is nice Nov 17 14:53:40 Although I already wrote up a bash script to deal with that. :) Nov 17 14:54:02 I think I prefer the cp style "file1 file2 fil3 dir" semantics (inspired by --list ;-)) Nov 17 14:56:29 The bitrate limiting is cool so you don't waste bytes transcoding artifacts from existing files. Nov 17 15:03:22 re Nov 17 15:08:17 ugh. maybe OS2007 was like this too, but thumb scrolling the web browser on a huge page is painfully slow -- not just because of the time it would take without kinetic, but there is a delay between when your thumb hits the screen and when scrolling is 'activated' that is the same amount of time it takes for your thumb to go from the bottom to top of the screen. effectively, your thumb feels like it's running on a treadmill. Nov 17 15:10:41 * konttori_ voted for tuomas's bug 2308 Nov 17 15:10:42 <_Monkey> Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 17 15:12:09 Jaffa, tablet-encode is dying with "Failed to get movie info." for me now. :( Nov 17 15:13:32 czr: ahh.. my point was back in an hour ago that if Nokia doesn't use proper professional hosting service now, Nokia should consider stating to use such for maemo.org. Nov 17 15:13:48 konttori_, I agree with you 100%. Nov 17 15:14:33 too bad I don't work for nokia nor have a magical button that says "all problems go away" :-) Nov 17 15:15:46 I have that button, but it's out of batteries Nov 17 15:16:17 I hope Quim will be able to address the issue in the future. Nov 17 15:18:24 fysa: at least on opera you were able to configure the dpad to go page up / page down on one click. Nov 17 15:18:41 in os2008 you cannot make such a binding Nov 17 15:18:52 otoh: n810 has the space key which works as page down. Nov 17 15:19:03 Which is stupid. Nov 17 15:19:09 It's such a braindead feature to add. Nov 17 15:20:04 yeah. I think we should press for such a feature. Nov 17 15:20:04 spacebar is not stupid! it's the only place where I can get beer while travelling between planets.. Nov 17 15:20:20 ;) Nov 17 15:20:23 I seem to recall the bug being shot down rather harshly. Nov 17 15:20:37 Something about it not being MicroB responsibility. Nov 17 15:20:42 I don't recall exactly. Nov 17 15:20:54 Only that I really didn't buy it when I read it. Nov 17 15:20:57 Hmm... maybe we should discuss the issue with specifications instead. Nov 17 15:21:09 as in the specifications team Nov 17 15:21:21 do we have open bugzilla for specifications? Nov 17 15:21:23 I say we all fly out to Nokia HQ and start bashing heads. Nov 17 15:23:12 GeneralAntilles, is flying really necessary? Nov 17 15:23:20 For me, yes. Nov 17 15:23:24 Unless you expect me to swim. ;) Nov 17 15:23:29 ah. so optional for others :-) Nov 17 15:23:37 you can always walk on the sea floor :-) Nov 17 15:24:08 *we all plane-it, train-it, or automobile-it to Nokia HQ Nov 17 15:24:30 heh. it's a good movie Nov 17 15:24:56 "where's your hand?" "between pillows" "those are not pillows" (or something to that effect, can't really recall) Nov 17 15:25:03 Well, my test loader can't even open my module. Nov 17 15:25:10 wow: http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/nokia/index.html Nov 17 15:25:13 So I think I'm compiling it wrong :( Nov 17 15:26:07 I wasn't able to find the dpad reconfiguration bug. GeneralAntilles , do you happen to remember the id? Nov 17 15:26:30 Ha Nov 17 15:26:35 1000-1800? Nov 17 15:26:36 <_Monkey> -800 Nov 17 15:26:39 hah Nov 17 15:26:43 Thanks, useless bot! Nov 17 15:26:51 timeless commented on it Nov 17 15:26:55 1000/0? Nov 17 15:26:59 aww Nov 17 15:27:05 Damnit Nov 17 15:27:10 If only it had done him in. Nov 17 15:27:21 maybe it's still busy calculatnig Nov 17 15:28:30 100/2 Nov 17 15:28:34 100/2? Nov 17 15:28:35 <_Monkey> 50 Nov 17 15:28:43 Well, it does do division .. Nov 17 15:28:43 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1811 Nov 17 15:28:45 Fail Nov 17 15:28:51 off by 11. :( Nov 17 15:35:01 Could be worse. Nov 17 15:35:06 You could be off by 12 Nov 17 15:35:09 or 13 Nov 17 15:36:14 Thanks generalantilles Nov 17 15:36:20 Sure Nov 17 15:36:27 I just tried to vote for the bug, but vote count didn't go up. Nov 17 15:36:34 maemo.org RIP :-\ Nov 17 15:36:52 A moment of silence, please. Nov 17 15:36:57 :) Nov 17 15:36:59 ahh.. my prob Nov 17 15:37:33 when voting do I need to put down any text? :) Nov 17 15:39:11 hmm. is autotools-dev really needed as a build-depends? Nov 17 15:39:21 you don't need to put any text Nov 17 15:39:41 You just need to click on the vote and then on the next screen add checkbox for the bug you want to vote. Nov 17 15:39:56 ok, I'll vote for that bug then Nov 17 15:40:37 czr, it is in the debian world for some reason. I would have thought "build-essentials" was a givin in package building ^_^ Nov 17 15:40:56 well, I got debhelper (>= 5.0), autotools-dev Nov 17 15:41:05 and wondering about the autotools-dev. seems slightly illogical Nov 17 15:41:15 yes, the software uses autotools. but autotools-dev? :-) Nov 17 15:44:25 ((gpointer*)&say_hello) - That looks odd .. Nov 17 15:45:15 why gpointer*? Nov 17 15:45:19 gpointer != void. Nov 17 15:45:42 also, if say_hello is a function, then & is not required/wanted really. Nov 17 15:45:56 Well, that lines says cast a pointer to a function pointer to a pointer to a void pointer :/ Nov 17 15:46:17 It's in a glib example on the gnome website. Nov 17 15:46:23 ew Nov 17 15:46:29 but why would you want one? Nov 17 15:46:36 I don't know. Nov 17 15:46:40 one'd think (gpointer)say_hello is sufficient Nov 17 15:46:58 if a (void*) is the end-result that is expected, or gpointer for that matter. Nov 17 15:47:03 Which is what I'm using in _my_ code .. Nov 17 15:47:05 And it works .. Nov 17 15:47:13 * czr shrugs Nov 17 15:48:40 I think the example is broken .. It's not even a complete example so I don't actually know what it's doing :/ Nov 17 15:48:54 yup. most example code unfortunately is like that Nov 17 15:48:57 * czr hates that Nov 17 15:50:45 Yeah, examples should be _working_ examples. Not a few lines of code that don't work. (Which means they're probably not even tested to work) Nov 17 15:50:48 bleh. Nov 17 15:50:51 "dh_shlibdeps: Compatibility levels before 4 are deprecated." Nov 17 15:50:56 what gives? Nov 17 15:51:00 4 is fine. Nov 17 15:51:10 no I mean what's wrong Nov 17 15:51:22 I bootstrapped the process with dh_make Nov 17 15:51:23 do you have a debian/compat file? Nov 17 15:51:28 not anymore :-) Nov 17 15:51:33 I removed all the extra cruft. Nov 17 15:51:42 compat isn't cruft ;) Nov 17 15:51:44 It's required .. Nov 17 15:51:51 try adding it with '4' in it.. echo 4 > debian/compat Nov 17 15:51:51 evidently not. it wasn't required in 3.2 Nov 17 15:52:02 No one uses 3.2 anymore :P Nov 17 15:52:04 it's not exactly required but it's good to be there Nov 17 15:52:14 well. no one told me :-) Nov 17 15:52:22 without it the packaging system somehow chooses a compat level Nov 17 15:52:25 and this material has gone through "review" a zillion of times. Nov 17 15:52:28 * czr acks Nov 17 15:54:38 Grrr .. Nov 17 15:54:48 I must be compiling my loader wrong. Nov 17 15:54:59 But I don't know how I should be compiling it because no one tells me! Nov 17 15:55:00 hmm I would have thought the debian policy would say something about that compat Nov 17 15:55:48 debian policy says a lot of things Nov 17 15:55:58 a lot of which have zero effect in maemo Nov 17 15:58:06 I guess it's not really required then.. cool Nov 17 15:58:20 it is in 4.0 at least Nov 17 15:58:34 or rather, I got a lot of whining from all the dh-helper tools if it was missing in 4.0 Nov 17 15:58:41 in 3.2 it was ok to just drop it Nov 17 15:58:50 I should just turn my phone off on Satudays. Nov 17 15:59:00 * alterego turns his phone off. Nov 17 15:59:00 that's because the debhelper has been updated between those sdk's Nov 17 15:59:27 kaltsi, well, yes, but I didn't expect it to start whining :-) Nov 17 15:59:57 hehe :) Nov 17 16:00:09 the whining may be just that.. you could ignore it too Nov 17 16:00:30 or you are using some obsolete way of doing things that will result in whining Nov 17 16:00:54 I'm using dh_make. if it generated whineable template rules, I'm not to blame :-) Nov 17 16:01:04 * czr is trying to update the 3.2 material to 4.0 level Nov 17 16:01:13 gaaaaaaaaaaaaah, maemo down again Nov 17 16:01:25 and can't have my step-by-step intstructions start whining. Nov 17 16:01:32 GeneralAntilles: can you try `mplayer -identify file.avi' for me? Nov 17 16:01:56 GeneralAntilles: It's possible my fallback/enhanced identification code isn't as robust as I'd like. Nov 17 16:02:05 czr read man debhelper for more info about the debian/compat Nov 17 16:02:25 kaltsi, [sbox-CHINOOK_X86: ~/appdev/z/packaging] > man debhelper Nov 17 16:02:25 bash: man: command not found Nov 17 16:02:29 ;-) Nov 17 16:02:30 hey, when will mplayer be added to chinook? Nov 17 16:02:34 outside of scratchbox.. Nov 17 16:02:44 kaltsi, I haven't installed dh_make outside sbox Nov 17 16:02:46 :-) Nov 17 16:02:49 is bartoush handling that or ssvb? Nov 17 16:02:50 well do it! :) Nov 17 16:02:55 kaltsi, no! :-) Nov 17 16:02:56 http://pastebin.com/d2466895f Jaffa Nov 17 16:03:00 besides, the issue is fixed now Nov 17 16:03:07 but I found yet another bug in 4.0 Nov 17 16:03:19 "install from file" doesn't work in the application manager in 4.0 sdk. Nov 17 16:03:26 mplayer flashes up when tablet-encode tries to do its thing, then closes and I get the error. Nov 17 16:03:29 nothing happens. Nov 17 16:03:49 hmm is dh_make part of the sdk? debhelper didn't install that on my ubuntu Nov 17 16:03:58 kaltsi, it is. Nov 17 16:04:12 I think it's a separate program to debhelper Nov 17 16:04:18 rather package. Nov 17 16:04:49 hmm. can anyone verify? application manager on 4.0 sdk doesn't support "install from file"? Nov 17 16:05:25 which is pretty f*cked. well, less screenshots then. Nov 17 16:06:11 I can try to verify.. holdon Nov 17 16:06:15 thanks Nov 17 16:07:01 it opens the fm dialog to select the deb, then I press select. then nothing happens (fm dialog closes of course, but nothing after that). Nov 17 16:08:52 hmm now I need a .deb to test this Nov 17 16:08:59 yup Nov 17 16:09:11 I'm trying to figure out how to coerse apt-get to download hello-world-app Nov 17 16:09:18 (it's already installed on the sdk) Nov 17 16:09:45 where do I need to copy the deb in order for the file selector to access it? Nov 17 16:09:52 ~/MyDocs Nov 17 16:10:13 czr, source or binary? :) Nov 17 16:10:27 alterego, binary, x86 Nov 17 16:10:33 Hmm. Nov 17 16:11:15 czr you're right.. nothing happened Nov 17 16:11:54 http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/ Nov 17 16:12:00 there's the hello-world-app as well now Nov 17 16:12:09 kaltsi, yup Nov 17 16:12:22 thanks for the verification Nov 17 16:12:32 I'll try couple of other things and then file a bug report Nov 17 16:14:20 czr what was that about coercing download of hello-world-app? Nov 17 16:14:29 czr, apt-get --reinstall -d hello-world-app Nov 17 16:14:40 czr, apt-get --reinstall -d install hello-world-app Nov 17 16:14:46 ;) Nov 17 16:14:47 hello-world-app is already installed so it probably.. Nov 17 16:15:09 which you already said.. where's me coat? Nov 17 16:16:02 czr, and the file will be in /var/cache/apt/archives obviously :) Nov 17 16:17:08 yes Nov 17 16:17:36 so you'll have to remove it, then install it back (along with the two other packages), which is PITA Nov 17 16:17:44 No Nov 17 16:17:50 Use that command I just gave you. Nov 17 16:18:07 It will force the downloading and of that specific package even if it's already installed. Nov 17 16:18:11 Exactly what you asked for :P Nov 17 16:18:12 alterego, yes, but in order to install the deb, it musn't be installed. in order to remove it, you'll lose two other packages as well Nov 17 16:18:19 yes, I'm thinking a step ahead you see Nov 17 16:18:27 Oh .. The _next_ step :P Nov 17 16:18:29 yes Nov 17 16:19:32 I give up. Nov 17 16:19:37 * alterego asks on irc.gnome.org Nov 17 16:19:40 no. not yet :-) Nov 17 16:19:44 ah, your problem :-) Nov 17 16:19:55 can't you just shove it out of the window? Nov 17 16:20:04 Oh .. Nov 17 16:20:14 heh Nov 17 16:20:15 Just as I was connecting I found a promising result in google ^_^ Nov 17 16:20:24 removing the -dev package caused two TNs to start in the AF Nov 17 16:20:27 "funny" Nov 17 16:21:06 argh Nov 17 16:21:09 now I have two TNs Nov 17 16:21:12 even after AF restart Nov 17 16:21:19 WTFWKFJEKJGEG.d Nov 17 16:21:28 * czr bangs head against wall Nov 17 16:21:37 I wonder who I could blame for this Nov 17 16:22:03 I've had that before. Nov 17 16:22:08 You'll have to do a killall. Nov 17 16:22:08 how did you fix it? Nov 17 16:22:24 nope Nov 17 16:22:37 I suspect it's because once the second TN gets started, when you restart/stop it doesn't kill that process because it doesn't know about it .. Nov 17 16:22:39 I think the maemo-sdk-dev reinstall is broken Nov 17 16:22:49 no. I did killall. doesn't help Nov 17 16:22:53 Oh Nov 17 16:22:58 Interesting. Nov 17 16:23:08 well. not really. but PITA nevertheless Nov 17 16:23:08 killall 15 ? Nov 17 16:23:14 now I can't make screenshots anymore Nov 17 16:23:34 Heh Nov 17 16:23:35 reboot Nov 17 16:23:43 I use the sb-menu to do my killall anyway. Nov 17 16:23:53 alterego, sb-conf killall Nov 17 16:23:56 faster :-) Nov 17 16:24:01 Though .. sb-conf killall is availabel. Nov 17 16:24:02 Yeah Nov 17 16:24:27 truls, what exactly would reboot fix if I have no processes running under sbox? Nov 17 16:25:00 Maybe TN has some strange persist like we were looking at the other day ;) Nov 17 16:25:17 I think it's somehow registered twice now since the sdk has been installed "twice" Nov 17 16:25:27 Possibly. Nov 17 16:25:28 somewhere. Nov 17 16:25:33 Well .. Nov 17 16:25:43 That would mean there are two service files Nov 17 16:25:52 hmm Nov 17 16:25:54 Or some other configuration/definition. Nov 17 16:25:56 let me post a screenshot Nov 17 16:26:01 it's not d-bus I'm sure Nov 17 16:26:04 czr: mounts Nov 17 16:26:05 it's the main menu thingy Nov 17 16:26:13 czr I got minorly interested about this dh_make + whining thingy.. how can I reproduce the whine? Nov 17 16:26:55 GeneralAntilles: fixed version now uploaded. Sorry about that. Nov 17 16:26:55 kaltsi, run dh_make on a project, then remove all other files except 'copyright', 'control', 'rules' and 'changelog' (under debian) Nov 17 16:27:03 then run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Nov 17 16:27:19 yep yep, I just thought which project to try it with Nov 17 16:27:22 when it will run rules and all the debhelper commands from there, each of them will complain Nov 17 16:27:29 Hehe, no worries. You've already saved me dozens of hours with the package. :) Nov 17 16:27:41 the dh_make is supposed to be used on a non-debian thingy to debianize it Nov 17 16:28:10 so? Nov 17 16:28:17 Yes my .so is broken. Nov 17 16:28:20 if you only have an autotoolized project to start with Nov 17 16:28:45 well yep .. I thought maybe you had one stashed in a corner somewhere Nov 17 16:28:54 kaltsi, sure, give me a sec Nov 17 16:29:06 <[mbm]> anyone ever see an n800 refuse to go into reflash mode? Nov 17 16:29:26 [mbm], have you installed OS2008? Nov 17 16:29:29 mbm how? Nov 17 16:29:37 hola Nov 17 16:29:39 <[mbm]> alterego: *grin* tried to Nov 17 16:29:44 kaltsi, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/hhwx-0.1.tar.gz Nov 17 16:30:00 [mbm], you mean you're trying to? Nov 17 16:30:08 Gah. Now planet's dead again. Nov 17 16:30:12 czr thanks Nov 17 16:30:21 <[mbm]> when I first insert the battery I can get it to turn on, but it instantly turns off without displaying the usb icon Nov 17 16:31:57 hmm. seems that installing hello-world-app doesn't work Nov 17 16:32:10 or rather, it installs, but is not displayed in TN Nov 17 16:32:20 neither is it loaded to statusbar nor anywhere else Nov 17 16:32:51 * czr gets even more annoyed now Nov 17 16:34:38 interesting. /usr/sbin/dpkg-proconfigure: no such file or directory Nov 17 16:34:45 preconfigure even Nov 17 16:34:57 dpkg-preconfigure is not required by debian policy Nov 17 16:34:58 czr that's not a problem.. it's not required Nov 17 16:35:04 you can ignore the warnings Nov 17 16:35:05 ah. ok Nov 17 16:35:09 haa Mr. Jumpula Nov 17 16:35:12 <[mbm]> any instructions on a cold flash? Nov 17 16:35:12 what about packages failing authentication? :-) Nov 17 16:35:24 WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! Nov 17 16:35:24 maemo-example-apps maemo-sdk-dev Nov 17 16:35:32 kaltsi: shouldn't you have a maemo free day? :) Nov 17 16:35:43 well.. yes :) Nov 17 16:36:30 :) Nov 17 16:36:31 jumpula, you should make a WoW client for n810 Nov 17 16:36:41 yeah, easy porting Nov 17 16:36:55 i just got really annoyed at blizzard Nov 17 16:37:22 wot happen? Nov 17 16:37:24 http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/bugargh.png Nov 17 16:37:33 this is what I see. the main menu is twice on the left Nov 17 16:37:36 both work btw :-) Nov 17 16:37:38 the netword update thingy gives server error 500, wine had some problems with the bc updater Nov 17 16:37:45 the hello world applet doesn't work though Nov 17 16:38:04 and now i'm running windows. Nov 17 16:38:12 jumpula 8-O Nov 17 16:38:30 it has been ages, but managed to boot from an ancient partition Nov 17 16:38:42 * czr wonders if he now has to reinstall the sdk Nov 17 16:39:01 anyone want to verify this bug? it will leave the sdk unusable though :-) Nov 17 16:39:05 however, the installer seems to be dead here too Nov 17 16:39:29 maybe blizzard's website is run by the same company as maemo.org (dead) Nov 17 16:39:37 maybe Nov 17 16:39:42 "i see dead people" Nov 17 16:39:44 they must be using the same IPR Nov 17 16:40:29 to top of it all, the setup for nvidia drivers i tried to install crashed in the end :) Nov 17 16:40:48 although the application was only configuration helper, so i don't care Nov 17 16:41:05 it just moddled my settings Nov 17 16:41:20 i miss linux already Nov 17 16:42:29 kaltsi, did you get the "operation failed" hildonbanner with application manager as well? (when you started it) Nov 17 16:42:40 yep Nov 17 16:42:51 I wonder whether that is related to the install from file problem Nov 17 16:43:01 but now I have a more serious one. Nov 17 16:43:08 it coudl have something to do with network access Nov 17 16:43:14 network is fine Nov 17 16:43:32 ah. you mean stuff like conic and such? Nov 17 16:43:37 yep Nov 17 16:43:45 * czr shrugs Nov 17 16:43:46 at least when I try to refresh the app list, then it will complain about libconic Nov 17 16:43:47 could be Nov 17 16:44:13 what is the file that determines what is put in the task navigator? Nov 17 16:45:03 czr: a .conf file somewhere under /etc Nov 17 16:45:30 suihkulokki, ah, _that_ one ;-) Nov 17 16:46:42 hmm. I wonder why a) I don't get any of the hello-world-app dynamic so thingies b) don't get the hello world task navigator thingy, and c) get the applications-menu twice in TN Nov 17 16:46:59 * alterego resorts to looking in the glib source. Nov 17 16:49:17 * czr resorts to reinstalling the fucking sdk Nov 17 16:49:24 :) Nov 17 16:49:33 * czr is not amused Nov 17 16:53:37 _Monkey forget game Nov 17 16:53:38 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot game Nov 17 16:53:43 _Monkey game is Nov 17 16:53:43 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx. Nov 17 16:54:36 FYI truls, rebooting didn't fix anything. Nov 17 16:55:21 Oh .. A little bit more info .. Nov 17 16:56:04 who would've thought little helloworlds wer so dangerous Nov 17 17:02:11 kaltsi, ah, you fixed one of my bugs too :-) Nov 17 17:02:16 2270 Nov 17 17:04:34 well I just uploaded the packets there :) Nov 17 17:05:01 I know. still :-) Nov 17 17:05:50 I like to mark bugs to fixed and grab the glory :) Nov 17 17:08:15 anyone have subversion for chinook yet? Nov 17 17:08:36 Shouldn't the old one work fine? Nov 17 17:08:43 Considering it's just a command line tool? Nov 17 17:08:57 svn is there Nov 17 17:09:31 tried from appmng. No luck. Incompatible. Lemme try dpkg -i Nov 17 17:09:49 you mean for the device? Nov 17 17:10:07 that's not there .. only in scratchbox Nov 17 17:10:43 * czr looks at GutsyX86-maemo-chinook-fucked-up-by-helloworld.tar.gz with tears in his eyes Nov 17 17:10:57 * czr waves bye bye to it Nov 17 17:11:02 Yeah. The device. I'm a python dev. I try not to mess with scratchbox. Nov 17 17:12:27 I wish the thumb vkb wouldn't always start with some text in it in chinook's xterm. Really annoying. Nov 17 17:13:11 trevarthan: well the official n800 image is not out yet Nov 17 17:13:56 Yeah. Maybe it'll be fixed by then. Nov 17 17:14:07 maybe someone could compile svn for the device. Nov 17 17:14:09 trevarthan: which language do you use? Nov 17 17:14:13 should be pretty straight forward. Nov 17 17:14:21 konttori_: yeah.. do it! :) Nov 17 17:14:23 shouldn't bora version work out of the box Nov 17 17:14:41 well, not me. I don't have enough porting experience. Nov 17 17:15:12 I've got mixed feelings about the toolbar being on the bottom instead of the right too. Better line length. But pgup and pgdwn are awkward now. Nov 17 17:16:38 arg. thumb vkb pastes all text twice too. Nov 17 17:17:00 kaltsi: python Nov 17 17:17:01 <_Monkey> somebody said python was probably the easiest Nov 17 17:17:23 yer a genious monkey Nov 17 17:17:25 trevarthan: ok, but as a language in the device.. english, french? :) Nov 17 17:17:32 english Nov 17 17:17:33 <_Monkey> english is fine, no worrink! Nov 17 17:18:11 _Monkey, you're deep from accordion Nov 17 17:18:12 <_Monkey> czr: what? Nov 17 17:19:32 i love chinook btw. just wish xterm and the thumb vkb weren't fucked up. Nov 17 17:19:44 trevarthan: ah. the xterm wasn't really properly tested for n800. I can see that being really annoying. I will add it to our bug db on monday Nov 17 17:20:07 I'm handling xterm, so let me know of other annoyances as well Nov 17 17:20:12 thank you. Nov 17 17:20:30 hmm. TN will break permanently only if it is running when the hello-world-app is removed Nov 17 17:20:38 _Monkey forget python Nov 17 17:20:39 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot python Nov 17 17:20:42 _Monkey python is Nov 17 17:20:43 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx. Nov 17 17:20:49 and the xterm is completely in garage, so it can be fixed in-between releases pretty easily as well (and we welcome contributors) Nov 17 17:21:13 _Monkey forget english Nov 17 17:21:13 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot english Nov 17 17:21:17 konttori_: by "our bug db", I assume you mean Bugzilla/Garage; cos it'd be really irritating to know there are still internal bug trackers in regular use inside Nokia *as the default option* for open source stuff Nov 17 17:21:18 _Monkey english is Nov 17 17:21:19 <_Monkey> OK, timelyx. Nov 17 17:21:21 oh really? cool. Nov 17 17:21:35 GeneralAntilles: That sound official and professional? ;) Nov 17 17:21:41 ahh... yeah. true. Nov 17 17:22:02 I suppose it's better to keep master in garage. Nov 17 17:22:11 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/osso-xterm/ Nov 17 17:22:16 garage's bugmail sucks :( Nov 17 17:22:24 Of course, you can't get to garage atm :-( Nov 17 17:22:26 garage still down? Nov 17 17:22:29 ah :-) Nov 17 17:22:30 nope. Nov 17 17:22:32 it's up Nov 17 17:22:35 Oh, it's back now. Nov 17 17:22:36 Jaffa: unfortunately, nokia really does suck Nov 17 17:22:39 Wonderful, I can do lots of commits Nov 17 17:22:53 https://garage.maemo.org/svn/rapier/ ? Nov 17 17:22:53 any chance we can make the location of the toolbar configurable in xterm? Nov 17 17:22:59 and trevarthan, it can actually be that the thumb bug has been fixed in the latest xterm available on garage Nov 17 17:23:00 anyone get anything but a blank screen from that url? Nov 17 17:23:11 Hmm? What's that, zerojay? Nov 17 17:23:27 I don't have my n810 with me on the weekend, as I had to loan it to another dev, but I'll check on the bug on monday Nov 17 17:23:35 http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/rapier/trunk/ Nov 17 17:23:52 Is there a package for download on garage? Or just svn? Nov 17 17:23:54 Jaffa: you can get to portions of garage Nov 17 17:23:55 trevarthan: the location of the toolbar is specified by the UI people to be inline with ordinary toolbar use. Nov 17 17:24:08 so, cannot be done for nokia releases. sorry. Nov 17 17:24:13 GeneralAntilles: The message I sent out on Jablet announcing the quick downtime. Nov 17 17:24:31 trevarthan: I don't think there is a package in garage. Nov 17 17:24:42 konttori_: i'm curious Nov 17 17:24:52 would you be opposed to adding code to handle alternate preferences? Nov 17 17:25:00 Ha, didn't see it. Nov 17 17:25:00 i'm currently wontfixing bugs asking for such junk Nov 17 17:25:16 because i need to start removing junk our ui designer asked for Nov 17 17:25:24 Surely toolbar location could be optional and default to nokia standards though? Nov 17 17:25:27 GeneralAntilles: Oh... weird. Should have been broadcast to everyone. The broadcast plugin got updated last night.. maybe they gummed it up. :/ Nov 17 17:25:29 nope, just that we can't deliver, as it would require new translations for the options and we are past the point of being able to request for new translations Nov 17 17:25:59 trevarthan: if it requires ui work, it's pretty much out :) Nov 17 17:26:13 konttori_: gconf only (no ui)? Nov 17 17:26:29 yeah, that would do it. Nov 17 17:26:55 In the end, I think it should be pretty easy to make the transtion to right side toolbar from the bottom toolbar. Nov 17 17:26:59 What, Nokia spends UI cycles on xterm? Umm... Well spent, I hope ;) Nov 17 17:27:02 I'll keep it in mind. Nov 17 17:27:14 *UI design cycles Nov 17 17:27:19 hah. Damn. Oh well. It's not that bad i guess. I think you'll get more complaints though. Nov 17 17:27:20 Nope, nokia spent maybe 4 hours on the UI. Nov 17 17:27:21 zuh: nokia freezes ui design cycles Nov 17 17:27:37 But it had to support some general guidlines (such as toolbar at the bottom) Nov 17 17:27:38 you get a few, and then aren't allowed to touch it for 18months :) Nov 17 17:28:33 xterm wasn't developed by nokia. Nov 17 17:28:43 hmm, osso-xterm is officially supported now? Nov 17 17:29:02 officially supported, hah Nov 17 17:29:03 I think it's included in the rough OS2008 release everyone seems to be using. Nov 17 17:29:05 what's that mean? Nov 17 17:29:07 Maybe xterm should be strictly 3rd party then. I'm not sure why a normal user would want it anyway to be honest. Nov 17 17:29:21 trevarthan: that was the claim used for 2005, 2006, 2007 Nov 17 17:29:24 Define "normal". Nov 17 17:29:25 trevarthan, it is third party. Nov 17 17:29:51 they should just send out the darn N810 to the 500 people with the dev discount, finished OS or no Nov 17 17:29:58 Regardless, when it comes down to it. I'd say 90% of tablet users use the xterm .. Nov 17 17:29:59 I mean not included with the os and not governed by nokia. Nov 17 17:29:59 timelyx: in the images or in the tableteer repos (or whatever they were) Nov 17 17:30:20 alterego: yeah, normal people don't buy tablets, geeks do Nov 17 17:30:21 trevarthan, it's not included with any official OS release. Nov 17 17:30:58 Sure it is. :) Nov 17 17:31:03 No, it isn't. Nov 17 17:31:23 You might think it is. But you're wrong. Nov 17 17:31:37 Really? Maybe i'm not remembering then. Nov 17 17:31:39 do i have to vpn in on a saturday night to answer this? Nov 17 17:31:49 * timelyx really thinks that's an awful way to spend a saturday night Nov 17 17:31:57 timelyx, you know you want to Nov 17 17:32:04 Why the hell is it governed by nokia then? Nov 17 17:32:07 * zuh is just wondering what benefits it gets from being "nokia governed" other than "must follow general UI design that has nothing to do with using the command line...) Nov 17 17:32:09 timelyx: but still, you're on irc on a sat night Nov 17 17:32:11 I don't know what that means. All I know is xterm was never supplied with any official OS release. Nov 17 17:32:20 shackan: i'm watching tv Nov 17 17:32:21 or a movie Nov 17 17:32:23 or both Nov 17 17:32:33 vpn'ing would require i pull out my work laptop Nov 17 17:32:34 and turn it on Nov 17 17:32:41 kaltsi, bug 2313. you want to close that one as well? ;-) Nov 17 17:32:41 <_Monkey> Bug 2313 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2313 Nov 17 17:32:46 this is my recreational mac Nov 17 17:32:50 looks easy to fix.. very. Nov 17 17:33:21 czr: eek Nov 17 17:33:29 there's a screenshot too :-) Nov 17 17:33:37 I just verified the bug. it wasn't one-off Nov 17 17:33:54 czr: what' Nov 17 17:34:00 timelyx, what what? Nov 17 17:34:04 s w/ the second applicaiton launcher menu? Nov 17 17:34:11 my enter key is too close to ' Nov 17 17:34:17 timelyx, look at the screenshot Nov 17 17:34:23 I have two application menus in the TN Nov 17 17:34:27 both work Nov 17 17:34:59 oddly enough, repeating the same breakage-procedure did not add more copies of the application menus :-) Nov 17 17:35:06 heh Nov 17 17:35:10 more seriously though, none of the .so based examples in hello-world-app work anymore Nov 17 17:35:15 except the control panel one. Nov 17 17:36:43 Hope someone ports quick launcher to chinook soon. I miss it. Nov 17 17:36:47 I think the correct target for that is the sdk and hello-world.. its postinst or postrm scripts may be buggy, the poor task navigator may have nothing to do with that Nov 17 17:37:15 kaltsi, I have no idea. I picked the category that seemed right to me. normally bugs will find their way into correct places magically :-) Nov 17 17:37:47 yep yep Nov 17 17:37:50 * czr goes back to setup the SDK Nov 17 17:37:55 I'd also appreciate it if someone could build svn for chinook. Nov 17 17:38:25 why not use host svn? Nov 17 17:38:36 timelyx, he wants to run it on the device Nov 17 17:38:41 I think xterm fits pretty well on the concept that n810 is computerish device and that with keyboard you can actually use that quite a lot. Nov 17 17:38:45 he's nuts Nov 17 17:38:48 or do you trevarthan? Nov 17 17:39:03 I don't know the details why it was chosen to be added, but in the end I think it was a pretty good idea Nov 17 17:39:07 konttori_, if only the keyboard would have a tab as well! Nov 17 17:39:08 * konttori_ leaves to play some tennis Nov 17 17:39:13 yeah. xterm ftw. Nov 17 17:39:31 czr: it actually had (fn + space). Nov 17 17:39:44 hmm. why not a proper one? Nov 17 17:39:51 I think that can still be configured by the x11 bindings Nov 17 17:39:58 konttori_: ooh! Nov 17 17:39:58 anyway, need to leave Nov 17 17:40:03 can you please help me? Nov 17 17:40:08 i have these nuts bothering the browser team Nov 17 17:40:16 please explain to them how to map keys per app :) Nov 17 17:40:31 hmm. fn+space sounds nice. how to do it? Nov 17 17:40:53 * czr gives a bag of bolts to timelyx Nov 17 17:41:04 lighting please? Nov 17 17:41:11 :-) Nov 17 17:41:12 that'd work nicely Nov 17 17:41:15 timelyx: yeah. I run svn on the device for python dev over ssh. Efficient that way. Nov 17 17:41:31 trevarthan: sshfs? Nov 17 17:41:32 <_Monkey> somebody said sshfs was enough for mgedmin_'s needs Nov 17 17:41:37 samba? Nov 17 17:41:44 rsync? Nov 17 17:41:51 * timelyx would go w/ rsync Nov 17 17:43:22 Sure. Or svn on the device. :)Sure. Or svn on the device. :) Nov 17 17:43:27 nuts . . . I just want some basic functionality out of my browser. ;) Nov 17 17:43:36 Wow, the PDF reader is faster too :) Nov 17 17:43:45 GeneralAntilles, shouldn't you be adding it instead of taking it out? Nov 17 17:43:54 Still no support for hyperlinks though .. Nov 17 17:44:06 alterego, did you find a solution to your prob btw? Nov 17 17:44:06 Btw. That sentence dup is chinook's xterm plus thumb vkb bug fault. Nov 17 17:44:26 Har har, czr. Nov 17 17:44:39 GeneralAntilles, I'm sorry. bad hair and everything else -day. Nov 17 17:45:14 Yay, first proper tablet-encode release now on garage: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.php Nov 17 17:47:00 czr, still working on it. Nov 17 17:47:21 alterego, ok. I'm thinking of quitting for tonight. motivation drainage after all the sdk mess. Nov 17 17:47:41 Jaffa: is the result of tablet-encode playable on the default video player? Nov 17 17:47:41 Okay, Nov 17 17:47:45 not mplayer Nov 17 17:47:52 Yes, RushPL_. Nov 17 17:47:57 RushPL_: yep, guaranteed (well, unless you use the 'mplayer' preset) Nov 17 17:48:00 czr, so you don't want to help me with my issue? ;) Nov 17 17:48:10 cool, I need to try it. :) Nov 17 17:48:13 mplayer preset will run just fine on the built-in on the N800 Nov 17 17:48:26 It would be really nice if the pdf reader remembered your page position like fbreader. Nov 17 17:48:27 Add another 400Kbps on it, even. Nov 17 17:48:28 alterego, not unless you want me to bork your SDK as well :-) Nov 17 17:48:29 GeneralAntilles: might not now - it's been bumped up a little higher Nov 17 17:48:35 Ah OK, cool. Nov 17 17:48:36 trevarthan: is that bug filed? Nov 17 17:48:39 Hah Nov 17 17:48:40 I've bumped it to 1200 no problem. Nov 17 17:48:54 GeneralAntilles: you running OS2008 on your N800? Nov 17 17:48:55 trevarthan: also, how do you define a pdf file? Nov 17 17:48:56 It stays at 1000 by default, though. Nov 17 17:48:59 Currently Nov 17 17:49:01 if you load page 5 in a pdf Nov 17 17:49:02 and quit Nov 17 17:49:02 timelyx: which one? Nov 17 17:49:04 and then move the pdf Nov 17 17:49:05 but that worked under os2007, too. Nov 17 17:49:06 and reopen Nov 17 17:49:09 what page should it show? Nov 17 17:49:23 quit again, rename the file, roepen Nov 17 17:49:24 what page should it show? Nov 17 17:49:34 GeneralAntilles: indeed, just wanted some additional testing - we could bump the "best" preset up to whatever's really best, and lose the mplayer specific one if it's that good. Nov 17 17:49:51 trevarthan: once you've answered these questions, file a bug in bugs.maemo.org Nov 17 17:49:51 Don't care really. Just want it to remember if i don't move the pdf. Nov 17 17:50:18 how many files should it remember? Nov 17 17:50:23 10, 20, 100, 1000? Nov 17 17:50:32 how should it choose to forget? Nov 17 17:50:32 All? Nov 17 17:50:37 czr, what should be extremely simple is being a pain in the ass :/ Nov 17 17:50:39 what if you open 1million files? Nov 17 17:50:52 at some point, that's space on your very limited root partition Nov 17 17:50:54 or a gazillion!? Nov 17 17:50:57 alterego, I feel the pain and can relate to the feeling. unfortunately for your ass and mine. Nov 17 17:51:01 Yer fucked? :) Nov 17 17:51:05 ... Nov 17 17:51:12 answer these questions *properly* before filing Nov 17 17:51:17 otherwise, the results will be bad Nov 17 17:51:47 czr, at least I have an error to work with now. Something the hildon-desktop loader didn't give me: undefined symbol: hd_plugin_loader_get_type Nov 17 17:52:10 that looks like API incompatibility somewhere Nov 17 17:52:13 I think all of that is up to the dev. I just want it to remember. Don't care how. Nov 17 17:53:01 trevarthan: left up to the dev it'll get messed up Nov 17 17:53:06 lost, forgotten, or done poorly Nov 17 17:53:26 pick all the answers, leave it so the dev doesn't have to spend time thinking, negotiating, or discussing Nov 17 17:54:16 Wow. It must suck to be a dev at nokia. No creativity allowed? Nov 17 17:54:25 heh Nov 17 17:54:43 Planet's dead again. Nov 17 17:58:09 kaltsi, found the cause for the 'operation not permittied' problem in AM Nov 17 17:58:34 ahhaha. the same reason stops it from installing from file Nov 17 17:59:11 hmm. another problem though Nov 17 17:59:25 bleh. Nov 17 17:59:41 "dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege" Nov 17 18:00:11 sudo? Nov 17 18:00:12 <_Monkey> well, sudo is supposed to do that. this is the difference in running as root and running from within a shell run as root :) Nov 17 18:00:27 kaltsi, no. it tries to run /usr/bin/fakeroot Nov 17 18:00:39 which isn't there. instead fakeroot is at /scratchbox/blah. Nov 17 18:00:52 added a symlink. it kind of works. except that when it comes to the time to actually install the deb Nov 17 18:01:05 then it fails because it's not running dpkg internally using fakeroot Nov 17 18:01:18 * czr curses in old church slavic Nov 17 18:01:38 hmm I've installed the sdk now a number of times in ubuntu and redhat systems.. never ran into that Nov 17 18:01:57 kaltsi, err, this is the "install from file" problem Nov 17 18:02:02 in application manager. Nov 17 18:02:10 the one that you verified ;-) Nov 17 18:02:12 .. my coat Nov 17 18:02:19 * czr hands it to kaltsi Nov 17 18:02:34 thank you, sir :) Nov 17 18:02:39 suits you :-) Nov 17 18:02:46 :D Nov 17 18:04:30 hm hum.. what if you started the AM as fakeroot.. would that make any sense (the fakeroot is a bit of magic to me) Nov 17 18:08:10 nah that makes no sense Nov 17 18:08:46 the problem is that AM is not designed for SDK use. that's the problem Nov 17 18:08:49 omigosh Nov 17 18:08:54 did jericho use an n810? Nov 17 18:09:03 timelyx: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2314 Nov 17 18:09:41 * timelyx chuckles Nov 17 18:09:54 do you know how much free space there is on an n800? Nov 17 18:09:56 say <128mb Nov 17 18:10:14 that's just nitpicking Nov 17 18:10:16 do you know how much space a name->int mapping takes? Nov 17 18:10:23 1million page mappings, w/ file paths of say 256 chars (minimum) Nov 17 18:10:24 practically nothing Nov 17 18:10:31 each mapping is say 1k Nov 17 18:10:35 so, um... Nov 17 18:10:42 1g? Nov 17 18:11:46 nobody will open 1 million files in pdf reader Nov 17 18:11:49 make it hash the document name and add a page number.. if someone goes through a million pdf documents with their n800, give that guy a cigar Nov 17 18:11:59 seriously Nov 17 18:12:00 heh Nov 17 18:12:12 kaltsi, http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/whee.png Nov 17 18:12:36 you, sir, are a star! .. or the sdk rules? :) Nov 17 18:12:58 only if you consider ruling to be "forces to write incredible kludges"? Nov 17 18:13:04 trevarthan: severity: enh Nov 17 18:13:15 sounds like ruling Nov 17 18:13:27 kaltsi, maybe in the company that you work in.. oh, wait.. Nov 17 18:13:29 :-) Nov 17 18:13:48 but everyone knows that glue is what makes the world go around Nov 17 18:13:57 sniff Nov 17 18:14:03 I'll have a quick smoke and write up the bug-report. I noticed that there'a a log in AM nowadays too Nov 17 18:14:10 that prompted me to the first kludge Nov 17 18:14:24 the second kludge I had to kludgify all by myself Nov 17 18:14:26 it's been there a long time.. at least with the red pill mode Nov 17 18:14:34 * czr shrugs Nov 17 18:14:36 timelyx: done Nov 17 18:14:45 it should be shown by default when there are issues Nov 17 18:14:53 not really Nov 17 18:14:56 trevarthan: was the guided form unclear or did you sorta skip that? Nov 17 18:15:04 * timelyx works on improving bugzilla too Nov 17 18:15:05 it should be! when _I_ have issues. damn it :-) Nov 17 18:15:11 the 'average' user would never dare to use the AM again :) Nov 17 18:15:22 who you calling average! Nov 17 18:15:27 * czr goes to have the smoke Nov 17 18:15:30 takes one to know one! Nov 17 18:15:37 wait.. Nov 17 18:15:39 :-) Nov 17 18:15:45 I'm getting the feeling I'll never get this to work. Nov 17 18:15:57 maybe we should marry, procreate and fill the world with perfect averageness Nov 17 18:16:03 beige Nov 17 18:16:43 timelyx: too much data on the page. I looked, but didn't see it. Nov 17 18:16:57 I'm used to Trac tickets Nov 17 18:18:16 Man, I wish FBReader did PDF. They apparently have no interest in doing PDF though. Something about it being non-free? Nov 17 18:18:34 Lame. Nov 17 18:19:48 kaltsi, application catalog doesn't work though. refreshing I mean. at least now I get an error message though Nov 17 18:19:55 hildon-application-manager[6261]: GLIB DEBUG ConIc - con_ic_connection_send_event(0x8154470, (null), (null), 1) Nov 17 18:19:59 or rather, a debug message Nov 17 18:20:14 Hmm .. Anyone know off hand what the correct sh syntax for assigning a value to a variable by having the name in another variable? Nov 17 18:20:17 but I don't really need that. Nov 17 18:20:24 Anyone else experiencing wicked clock drift in chinook? Nov 17 18:20:32 something like $1= ? Nov 17 18:20:40 I set my clock two hours ago and it's off by an hour already. Nov 17 18:20:52 trevarthan, by chinook do you mean the SDK or a device? Nov 17 18:20:57 device Nov 17 18:21:04 then say so. chinook = sdk 4.0 Nov 17 18:21:06 N810 firmware on an n800 Nov 17 18:21:12 ah. can't help you there. Nov 17 18:21:30 let me see what my device says Nov 17 18:21:38 timelyx: why isn't NTP a default part of maemo yet? Nov 17 18:21:47 do i look like i'm part of core? Nov 17 18:21:56 ntp is, generally speaking, not good for power management Nov 17 18:22:01 indeed Nov 17 18:22:08 but that's why i wouldn't add it :) Nov 17 18:23:03 alterego: foo=$bar Nov 17 18:23:06 btw. what is the component in application manager which kinds of resembles of "history" toolbar. the gray one with <- | Main > Browse installable applications? Nov 17 18:23:19 cookie crumbs? Nov 17 18:23:25 alterego: nevermind.. :) Nov 17 18:23:30 it should be in media player too Nov 17 18:23:33 kaltsi, thanks. Though it doesn't matter. I'm writing my script in Ruby instead ;) Nov 17 18:23:48 Nice if it could use NTP for a monthly sync, or something. Nov 17 18:23:49 timelyx, maybe so, but media player is not present in the SDK Nov 17 18:23:51 not sure if it made it anywhere else Nov 17 18:23:56 czr: ok, well, :) Nov 17 18:24:07 alterego: in php there was this ${} thingy, dunno about ruby Nov 17 18:24:10 konttori: timelyx: I just noticed that I can't open URL links from xterm anymore. Nov 17 18:24:17 in chinook Nov 17 18:24:18 eval is the correct way Nov 17 18:24:48 alterego, foo=`eval $bar` Nov 17 18:25:01 kaltsi, I don't need to do it in Ruby. It was just a hack for doing something in sh Nov 17 18:25:01 or smt like that Nov 17 18:26:33 konttori: timelyx: I can't copy and paste from xterm either. ugh. Nov 17 18:26:33 anymore? Nov 17 18:26:45 yeah, used to work fine in bora Nov 17 18:26:46 /usr/bin/browser --url=x Nov 17 18:26:48 doesn't work? Nov 17 18:27:23 dunno. I just know that URLs are underlined in xterm, and you used to be able to open them by holding the stylus over them. you can't now. Nov 17 18:27:53 also, you used to be able to copy and paste by highlighting and going to Copy on the vkb. can't do that either now. Nov 17 18:28:06 are the vkbs available? Nov 17 18:32:10 I found copy. it's in the xterm menu. maybe it was always like that and I forgot. Nov 17 18:32:29 but the URL thing used to be really cool. too bad that's broken. Nov 17 18:32:47 URL highlighting is a must. Nov 17 18:34:09 maemo.org seems to work now Nov 17 18:34:46 kaltsi, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2312#c1 Nov 17 18:35:00 in case you're interested in seeing the "solution" Nov 17 18:36:10 hehe nice Nov 17 18:36:30 oddly enough running dpkg.orig with fakeroot didn't work Nov 17 18:36:43 but hey, at least it works now Nov 17 18:38:41 what is the correct way to write hildon btw? Nov 17 18:38:49 hildon or Hildon? Nov 17 18:39:30 http://live.gnome.org/Hildon that place uses Hildon a lot Nov 17 18:39:32 http://live.gnome.org/Hildon Nov 17 18:39:50 so why don't you people spell it correctly then? :-) Nov 17 18:40:15 do i ever write it anywhere? Nov 17 18:40:19 the shift key quota was reached last month Nov 17 18:40:29 plural you. as in "they" in the evil "they" :-) Nov 17 18:40:35 kaltsi, indeed :-) Nov 17 18:40:39 what about libosso? Nov 17 18:40:45 evcil Nov 17 18:40:59 libbadname Nov 17 18:41:09 http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:KtuXz5pctqwJ:maemo.org/maemowiki/HildonDesktopPortability+hildon+haf&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=5 Nov 17 18:41:12 I'm serious though Nov 17 18:41:20 it has various baseline apis Nov 17 18:41:22 Libosso or LibOSSO? Nov 17 18:41:26 including iirc oom notifications Nov 17 18:41:29 libosso afaik Nov 17 18:41:41 I know what it has. just wondering what you people use to write about it Nov 17 18:41:57 which form/capitalization that is. Nov 17 18:41:58 i think it's the elephant in the corner Nov 17 18:42:08 no one writes about it :) Nov 17 18:42:12 but i'd write it all lowercase Nov 17 18:42:17 take a look at the maemo quick start guide now that the site is up.. Nov 17 18:42:18 ok. you kaltsi? Nov 17 18:42:22 and yeah, i don't mind, since i've been known to ask similar questions in the past Nov 17 18:42:27 that must mention the libosso somewhere.. I'd use that Nov 17 18:42:46 http://www.google.com/search?q=libosso%20site%3Amaemo.org&sourceid=mozilla2&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 Nov 17 18:42:52 ooo missed it.. site went down :D Nov 17 18:42:58 Libosso Nov 17 18:42:59 libosso.h. o + Data Structures. | o * osso_hw_state_t .... Generated on Mon Dec 18 16:43:35 2006 for Libosso by doxygen 1.4.2. Nov 17 18:42:59 maemo.org/api_refs/3.0/libosso/index.html - Nov 17 18:43:05 remind me to shoot someone Nov 17 18:43:19 the python people spell it LibOSSO] Nov 17 18:43:26 so do I Nov 17 18:43:38 LibOSSO: Not included Nov 17 18:43:38 When Libosso calls the application's exit callback function, the application should save its GUI state and unsaved user data and exit as soon as possible. ... Nov 17 18:43:39 maemo.org/api_refs/2.1/libosso/html/group__outside.html - 40k - Nov 17 18:43:39 without the brace obviously. Nov 17 18:43:43 the api people can't make up their mind Nov 17 18:43:57 I suggest LibOSSO. as per origin. Nov 17 18:44:16 and infact, I've had this discussion with other people already. there just doesn't seem to be a consensus on it Nov 17 18:44:34 * timelyx prefers elephant in corner Nov 17 18:44:38 much better :) Nov 17 18:44:42 anyway, i'm hungry Nov 17 18:44:42 * czr agrees Nov 17 18:44:46 i need dinner from yesterday Nov 17 18:44:51 -l'elephant in corner' ? :-) Nov 17 18:44:51 and breakfast/lunch/dinner from today Nov 17 18:44:56 czr: sold Nov 17 18:45:04 great. I'll file a bug against it Nov 17 18:45:18 good by me Nov 17 18:45:26 and goodbye -- me :) Nov 17 18:45:28 so instead of osso_initialize, it will be elephant_in_corner_energize() ? :-) Nov 17 18:45:44 later timelyx :-) Nov 17 18:45:51 I need some food too actually. Nov 17 18:46:00 the maemo tutorial seems to call it LibOSSO Nov 17 18:46:12 but maemo tutorial is broken too Nov 17 18:46:24 meh Nov 17 18:46:31 the fact is, all of the documents are in rather many ways in contradiction with each other :-) Nov 17 18:46:37 like maemo tutorial vs coding style, etc Nov 17 18:47:05 hmm. any idea where should I could the 'control' files of already installed deb packages? Nov 17 18:47:10 it also calls it libOSSO Nov 17 18:47:15 heh Nov 17 18:47:26 I wonder if anyone calls it LibOsso or libOsso Nov 17 18:47:28 "should I could" ? Nov 17 18:47:41 oh my. brain mistakes :-) Nov 17 18:47:44 should i find :-) Nov 17 18:47:56 I would find works too Nov 17 18:48:18 hmm I doubt the control files get installed Nov 17 18:48:26 ah. shame Nov 17 18:49:11 or I wonder how 'postrm' works.. that's a control file too and it's run when the deb is uninstalled.. so maybe they are somewhere Nov 17 18:49:26 those do go somewhere Nov 17 18:49:28 /var iirc Nov 17 18:49:39 anyway, if the file's in chinook, the xref knows :) Nov 17 18:49:48 kaltsi, they're in /var/lib/dpkg/ smt. Nov 17 18:49:59 ok good to know Nov 17 18:50:21 I'm giving up for a while. Nov 17 18:50:28 * alterego moves on to his Ruby based build system. Nov 17 18:51:05 beh, I just did a dump of dpkg -l > foo and went through all usages of hildon there Nov 17 18:51:14 just to check whether it's spelled incorrectly in other packages too Nov 17 18:51:21 Hah Nov 17 18:51:47 timelyx, does your xref also point to the correct product/bugzilla section for each file? that'd be neat ;-) Nov 17 18:54:58 damn. someone grabbed 2314 Nov 17 18:55:44 ah. that was the one million files issue :--) Nov 17 18:57:13 czr if you find this kind of bugs file them directly under development platform/sdk Nov 17 18:57:35 kaltsi, even if it's in hildon-theme-plankton? Nov 17 18:57:46 well no :) Nov 17 18:57:49 see! Nov 17 18:58:11 this is why I choose what seems best to be and let heads roll.. or what was it :-) Nov 17 18:58:24 the product/category thing is really unclear to me at times Nov 17 18:58:37 especially since the SDK is not as a separate platform as it should be imho Nov 17 18:58:41 although the plankton is an sdk theme.. so it would find the responsible from there too :) Nov 17 18:59:10 yes. but the point is that we (outsiders) don't get to see who ends up fixing what and what team does what Nov 17 18:59:30 we just see a randomly organized front-page which doesn't always contain the info that is necessary to decide where to bug people. Nov 17 18:59:40 and no, I'm not whining, just explaining that it's not easy :-) Nov 17 18:59:49 although I can whine too :-) Nov 17 19:00:26 * czr is adding all the bugs into a save search thingy Nov 17 19:00:51 I don't blame you and those bugs will find their rightful owner wherever you decide to file them.. Nov 17 19:01:15 * czr nods Nov 17 19:02:16 You made me typo Builder to Buildon czr :P Nov 17 19:02:36 well, at least you weren't writing about straper Nov 17 19:02:47 :) Nov 17 19:04:24 alterego: did you know this: http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/nokia/index.html ? Nov 17 19:06:10 hmm. is it possible to add some kind of column in saved searches in bugzilla that indicates how long each bug has been "inactive"? Nov 17 19:06:20 and when a bug was originally opened (by me) Nov 17 19:06:53 "yes there is, use the 'change columns' thingie" Nov 17 19:07:14 argh. but the 'changed' doesn't really reflect "how long", instead shows a date/timestamp Nov 17 19:07:41 "ah yes, but don't you know how to subtract any two given dates to get the number of days count automatically?" Nov 17 19:07:42 no Nov 17 19:07:45 :-( Nov 17 19:08:05 p|, neat Nov 17 19:08:44 czr, you could write a script to do that easy :P Nov 17 19:08:52 czr, sort? Nov 17 19:09:09 Does grease monkey have the ability to run external scripts to generate content? Nov 17 19:09:09 sp3000, no Nov 17 19:09:14 If it does you're sorted :) Nov 17 19:09:48 take for example: Opened 2007-10-05, Changed 2007-11-01. I want to see '16 days ago' instead of 2007-11-01 Nov 17 19:10:28 alterego, yes I could. and then what? Nov 17 19:10:39 Isn't that what you want? Nov 17 19:10:43 alterego, I prefer to use a browser directly with bugs.maemo.org :-) Nov 17 19:10:54 to write my own script? no. not really. Nov 17 19:10:55 czr, you can. That's what greasemonkey does. Nov 17 19:11:04 bleh Nov 17 19:11:10 I don't use greasy monkeys Nov 17 19:11:17 It's like advanced xslt. Nov 17 19:11:18 all my monkeys are squecky clean! Nov 17 19:11:25 I don't use it either. I'm just giving you a solution :P Nov 17 19:11:26 I don't like xslt :-) Nov 17 19:11:36 dom rather Nov 17 19:11:36 xslt is okay. Nov 17 19:11:48 well, dom I can live with. Nov 17 19:11:53 Erm .. Nov 17 19:11:54 but still, it's not worth it Nov 17 19:12:08 I meant it functions similar to XSLT, you can piss around with the content. Nov 17 19:12:16 It'd take you 10 minutes .. Nov 17 19:12:34 nothing ever takes only 10 minutes. Nov 17 19:12:43 especially things that should take 10 minutes. Nov 17 19:12:46 the problem with all this python/ruby calendar/todo/appointment is that they require to be running always on, no daemon... Nov 17 19:13:13 Why would a program need a daemon? Nov 17 19:13:20 czr: wouldn't a limit be sufficient though for what you probably want to do Nov 17 19:13:26 (not with-standing the effort to make python startup faster Nov 17 19:13:57 sp3000, I don't know what I want to do. it's just hard to calculate relative time based on two arbitrary date-stamps :-) Nov 17 19:14:05 sp3000, never mind. I'm just cranky :-) Nov 17 19:14:28 i.e. tack on &chfieldfrom=x on the query Nov 17 19:14:55 oh, but, hm, you probably want it the other way around Nov 17 19:14:59 "'x' is not a legal date." Nov 17 19:15:01 haha Nov 17 19:15:10 * czr gets only illegal dates Nov 17 19:15:27 I want to see all the bugs. so it's not really limits what I'm looking for Nov 17 19:15:46 I just want to see whether some bug might need more input from me or not, based on how long ago was the last time that something happened to it Nov 17 19:15:59 ah, chfieldto rather Nov 17 19:16:33 sorrry Nov 17 19:16:38 1d is a legal relative time Nov 17 19:17:10 hmm. but that shows bugs that were opened and changed during the same day. nothing else :-) Nov 17 19:17:14 which is slightly weird :--) Nov 17 19:17:20 (1d with chfieldto) Nov 17 19:17:34 or hmm. wait. no. Nov 17 19:17:45 bah. I don't care really. food -> Nov 17 19:17:49 thanks for trying though sp3000 Nov 17 19:18:01 czr: e.g. https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?chfieldto=900d Nov 17 19:18:22 the new gmail is almoost not usable of the n800 Nov 17 19:18:48 * sp3000 generally uses the /h/ version, it flexes better Nov 17 19:19:08 * sp3000 would like to have such a version for reader, too :+ Nov 17 19:19:16 :\ even Nov 17 19:19:21 anybody using the imap interface now? Nov 17 19:19:37 (reader is _heavy_) Nov 17 19:20:06 (and the mobile variant or reader is too ...uh, mobile or something) Nov 17 19:20:37 (3 roundtrips to real content, or somehing Nov 17 19:20:39 ) Nov 17 19:23:13 i guess i will need to start using vnc to get back some performance Nov 17 19:23:45 planet is dead again... Nov 17 19:25:18 haha. bug 2263 Nov 17 19:25:19 <_Monkey> Bug 2263 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2263 Nov 17 19:25:30 * czr was reading through some of the older bugs Nov 17 19:26:05 -> afk. alterego, good luck and perseverance! Nov 17 19:26:15 and have a nice evening all too Nov 17 19:26:20 See you Nov 17 19:26:45 * sp3000 should probably look into running an aggregator Nov 17 19:35:51 odd, xchat on 770 has no fullscreen apparently Nov 17 19:43:52 Morning all. Nov 17 19:44:22 hi-ya Nov 17 20:02:57 brb Nov 17 20:09:55 re Nov 17 20:13:48 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cellphonetool/ Nov 17 20:13:54 anyone used that? Nov 17 20:14:04 Nope - would be handy if it had some screenshots ;-) Nov 17 20:14:17 yeah it would Nov 17 20:14:24 i might install it now and give it a go Nov 17 20:14:45 hm, which is the one for os2006 Nov 17 20:15:15 thats mistral, isn't it? Nov 17 20:16:58 Sure, Nov 17 20:16:59 Or gregale Nov 17 20:16:59 <_Monkey> gregale is something else entirely Nov 17 20:17:00 Or gregale. Nov 17 20:17:01 <_Monkey> gregale is something else entirely Nov 17 20:17:09 _Monkey, forget gregale Nov 17 20:17:10 <_Monkey> alterego: I forgot gregale Nov 17 20:17:11 which is the later one? Nov 17 20:17:11 _Monkey: forget gregale Nov 17 20:17:12 <_Monkey> Jaffa, I didn't have anything matching gregale Nov 17 20:17:18 gregale is the newer one. Nov 17 20:17:22 ok cool Nov 17 20:17:32 _Monkey: gregale is the codename of the last IT OS 2006 release Nov 17 20:17:32 <_Monkey> ...but gregale is the newer one.... Nov 17 20:17:36 _Monkey: forget gregale Nov 17 20:17:36 <_Monkey> Jaffa: I forgot gregale Nov 17 20:17:37 _Monkey: gregale is the codename of the last IT OS 2006 release Nov 17 20:17:37 <_Monkey> OK, Jaffa. Nov 17 20:18:24 is it possible to use the bluetooth functionality with python? Nov 17 20:19:56 There should be obex bindings somewhere .. Nov 17 20:20:58 Is there and IRC client for 2008 yet? Nov 17 20:21:14 and/an Nov 17 20:22:15 pidgin works ok Nov 17 20:22:53 Thanks, will check that out - thought it was just an IM client :-). Nov 17 20:23:04 * alterego wishes he could customise the colour pallette used in osso-xterm. Nov 17 20:23:07 It's got an IRC transport Nov 17 20:24:28 xchat on 2007 was kinda small for these old eyes :). Nov 17 20:33:53 i like the OS2006 audio player tbh Nov 17 20:34:57 can i disable matalyer-crawler ? Nov 17 20:35:03 heh good question Nov 17 20:36:53 whats his task ? Nov 17 20:37:15 scanning for media? Nov 17 20:37:30 which is silly because all the directories get rescanned when i open a file browser Nov 17 20:37:33 that's rather slow Nov 17 20:42:17 planel is no londer linked from the front page? Nov 17 20:42:28 sorry garage news Nov 17 20:45:59 I must be compiling this loader wrong. Nov 17 20:49:47 pupnik770: metalayer-crawler is for automatically adding music and videos on your SD cards and internal memory to the media player library. Nov 17 20:50:50 mkay Nov 17 20:51:03 audio player still scans my directories whenever i 'open file' Nov 17 20:51:13 i think this is kind of lame Nov 17 20:51:17 i can't target a directory Nov 17 20:51:23 Hmmm .. hildon-desktop wont even autoconf .. Nov 17 20:51:24 cause it keeps adding directories as it scans them Nov 17 20:51:35 and they keep shifting down in the directory list Nov 17 20:51:37 so you have to wait Nov 17 20:51:39 and wait Nov 17 20:51:46 for the whole list of subdirectories to be scanned Nov 17 20:51:52 ok Nov 17 20:51:52 before you can select a subdirectory Nov 17 20:51:55 then repeat the process Nov 17 20:51:57 i stopped and revoed it Nov 17 20:51:58 and it's about Nov 17 20:51:58 as Nov 17 20:52:00 annoying Nov 17 20:52:02 as watching Nov 17 20:52:03 removed* Nov 17 20:52:04 me type this Nov 17 20:52:41 That was pretty annoying :P Nov 17 20:53:19 Hmm .. Odd. Builds with dpkg-buildpackage. Nov 17 20:53:34 finally i'm back to OS2007 :) Nov 17 20:53:50 p|, 2008 not good enough? Nov 17 20:54:23 no Nov 17 20:54:30 What's wrong with it? Nov 17 20:54:33 it lack too many apps Nov 17 20:54:39 Like what? Nov 17 20:54:42 pand in primis Nov 17 20:54:47 You could have helped port them :P Nov 17 20:55:05 unfortunately i need it with my phone :( Nov 17 20:55:14 Why didn't you compile pand? Nov 17 20:55:27 I would have used it. Nov 17 20:55:27 hehe i'm not a developer :) Nov 17 20:55:42 You don't have to "develop" it. You just have to build it. Nov 17 20:55:47 only a (VERY) little scripter Nov 17 20:55:47 pupnik770: Why would you use Open File in media player? All your files are already in the library. Nov 17 20:56:03 i love os2008 interface Nov 17 20:56:09 i am using audio player Nov 17 20:56:10 let me check Nov 17 20:56:13 zerojay, only when they're scanned by metalayer crawler :P Nov 17 20:56:16 but i think i'll wait for the official version Nov 17 20:56:30 I'm not sure I could go back. Nov 17 20:56:36 I can't. Nov 17 20:56:39 alterego: why not ? Nov 17 20:56:49 It has everything I need and I mainly want it to continue developing ruby-maemo for chinook. It's been a great help .. Nov 17 20:56:59 The upgrade has so many fixes and stuff I need. Nov 17 20:57:07 2008 is such an improvement .. Nov 17 20:57:17 i also need xchat, claws-mail,gnumeric Nov 17 20:57:25 xchat? pfft. Nov 17 20:57:29 zerojay: for example ? Nov 17 20:57:39 I still don't understand why you don't get the packages and compile them yourself. Nov 17 20:57:48 You'd be doing everyone (including yourself) a big favour :P Nov 17 20:57:53 Fixes to the Jabber client, a browser that no longer crashes, etc.. Nov 17 20:58:11 It's crashed once in the past 3 days :) Nov 17 20:58:13 For me. Nov 17 20:58:33 Not sure that was the browsers fault though .. Nov 17 20:58:35 i'm very noob to dev. Nov 17 20:58:54 and have not much time to learn unfortunately Nov 17 20:59:33 I think I'll start using bleeding edge libraries too :) Nov 17 20:59:38 Well, the ones I can compile ^_^ Nov 17 21:00:11 when primary applications (for my use) will be available, than i switch again Nov 17 21:00:19 pupnik: The entire time I've had my tablet.. maybe 8 months now, I've never even once used Open File in Media Player... so maybe you just don't know about the library or how to get to it. Nov 17 21:02:41 Anyone know if it's possible to rename a memory card on a 770 in OS2007HE? Using the September version as I keep getting disconnected trying to download the new one, but even turning swap off and rebooting, the name change from File Manager doesn't seem to be doing anything... Nov 17 21:02:58 Your card might be damaged. Nov 17 21:03:49 Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised, honestly. Nov 17 21:04:10 Nor would I because almost no one knows how to properly use cards anyways. Nov 17 21:04:53 Oh, weird, the faded memory card icon apparently doesn't actually get used, because I replaced the standard one with a custom icon, but not the faded one, but it just faded my custom one on the fly... Nov 17 21:05:20 zerojay: it2006 has "Audio Player" and "video Player" - which do you refer-to? Nov 17 21:06:09 anyway the issue i was addressing is ~not~ limited to the audio player Nov 17 21:06:18 pupnik: Er.. I don't know because as far as I know, media player is one program that does both. And it's just called Media Player. Nov 17 21:06:19 it is the nature of the file selector in it2006 Nov 17 21:06:56 in it2006 clicking on menu gets you: Audio player // Video player // RSS feed reader // File manager Nov 17 21:07:15 Any tips on how to test for damage? My desktop system is Linux if that helps...I've just never had to do this. Nov 17 21:07:15 * GreySim is currently backing up the card to reformat it just to see if that somehow helps any. Nov 17 21:07:24 I don't remember ever seeing separate audio and video players. Nov 17 21:07:32 You must have something else installed. Nov 17 21:08:15 regardless, the issue is with the file-chooser in hildon, which is impossible to click on directories Nov 17 21:08:20 until it has scanned on all subdirectories Nov 17 21:08:32 That's not really an issue. Nov 17 21:08:35 unless you enjoy the video-game aspect of directories in a list moving around Nov 17 21:08:42 it is a waste of time and a UI error Nov 17 21:08:49 It's neither. Nov 17 21:08:55 you like waiting 20 seconds to change a directory? Nov 17 21:09:04 It's just the reality of a slow CPU being used with slow media. Nov 17 21:09:16 there's no need for the file chooser to scan each subdirectory Nov 17 21:09:21 No, but it's not like there's any way to fix it. Nov 17 21:09:34 * GreySim would rather it showed nothing until it was done building the directory list, personally, and the list not jumping around once it is displayed. Nov 17 21:09:36 hence, it's a UI design problem Nov 17 21:09:40 I'm almost convinced we're not talking about the same thing here at all. Nov 17 21:10:05 GreySim: why does the file opener need to show you how many 'items' a directory has? Nov 17 21:10:18 that's just microsoftian featuritis Nov 17 21:10:22 Because it's helpful? Nov 17 21:10:37 it is not Nov 17 21:10:43 pupnik: Yeah, I agree. Nov 17 21:10:50 It sure is. Nov 17 21:10:54 It *could* be helpful. But personally I never use it. Nov 17 21:11:15 Wastes less time than actually going into every directory to find the right one. Nov 17 21:11:23 Does it still do that if you use the small view? The default one on OS 2007? Nov 17 21:12:58 When trying to figure out which directory is the one I need, the number of items in them is never a factor as far as I can remember. The only time I could ever see that being useful is just knowing if the directory is empty or not, but I'd rather it save the time by not counting and letting me just jump in and out. Nov 17 21:13:32 That's the thing. Nov 17 21:13:39 You wouldn't be saving very much time at all. Nov 17 21:13:50 Not enough to even notice it. Nov 17 21:14:45 Well, regardless of the causes, I agree that the file manager in 2006 is seriously screwed up. I was just using it last night, and I just reflashed to 2007 today because that was one of the things that seriously irked me about 2006. Nov 17 21:15:02 I never got much of a chance to play with 2006. Nov 17 21:15:35 Lucky you. Nov 17 21:18:42 whats wrong with it? Nov 17 21:21:02 How does the Media Player work these days? Nov 17 21:21:24 Very well. Nov 17 21:22:33 amr: Actually, I guess my reasons are fairly unique, so probably not worth relating. Among other things, aesthetics. The Plankton theme is reason enough for me to upgrade to 2007HE. >.> Nov 17 21:23:00 meh installing kagu fails Nov 17 21:23:22 * GreySim cares about usability more than shininess, but given the choice between two things which are roughly identical, will choose the shiny one. Nov 17 21:27:51 first report of n810 shipping retail in chicago today Nov 17 21:28:30 I'm still waiting on that Nokia e-mail. Nov 17 21:30:44 My odd love of shiny things also leads me to do crazy things like change system fonts and fiddle with .fonts.conf files for two hours trying to figure out the format and options and tweak the font rendering settings to be just right. >.> http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g294/GreySim/fonts.png Nov 17 21:32:09 Font's not bad. Nov 17 21:32:47 http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1FuAzS Nov 17 21:32:55 I love OS2008. Nov 17 21:33:44 It's the one from the Android stuff. Droid Sans 14 with no hinting and no subpixel rendering. Droid Serif in FBReader also looks really good with those settings. The default settings make some of the characters look weird otherwise. Nov 17 21:34:09 nokia.de shop still not listing n810 Nov 17 21:34:26 GreySim: agree on plankton Nov 17 21:34:47 Plankton's pretty cool in 2008 with the transparencies. Nov 17 21:35:13 GreySim: would be nice to have a dark theme like plankton, with dark border around apps instead of white, dark background on apps etc Nov 17 21:35:51 GreySim, yeah i agree Nov 17 21:35:53 i love plankton Nov 17 21:36:00 pity it doesn't work properly on 2006 Nov 17 21:36:10 Yeah. Nov 17 21:36:18 i was trying to copy it using thememaker but i didn't get very far Nov 17 21:38:27 Hmm. OS2008 doesn't let you reassign the web and contacts buttons still, does it? Nov 17 21:40:28 amr: what problems did you have? plankton worked OK for me on OS2006 except for two white horizontal bars in the left border Nov 17 21:40:42 yeah thats what i had Nov 17 21:40:47 it irritated me to no end Nov 17 21:41:07 Well, nevermind actually, I guess. I'm just gonna go back to trying to Tangoize as much of Maemo as possible despite the fact that Nokia used non-standard sized icons everywhere for no apparent reason. >.< Nov 17 21:41:22 gits >_< Nov 17 21:41:50 Thanks for the info though. Guess my memory card is just borked. Nov 17 21:47:25 hmm, the top two task navigator plugins have been configurable since '07 afaik Nov 17 21:47:59 or maybe even earlier Nov 17 21:50:02 "We will send you Nov 17 21:50:02 a notification as soon as the N810 is available in the online Nokia shop Nov 17 21:50:03 you selected." Nov 17 21:50:14 i don't recall selecting a shop Nov 17 21:54:09 pupnik: someone at InternetTabletTalk reported signing up at a Nokia brick-and-mortar shop, for notification, and he actually picked up his tablet yesterday Nov 17 21:54:33 Someone got a tablet already? Nov 17 21:54:35 Cool. Nov 17 21:54:50 I vaguely remember selecting the online shop I wanted to use. Nov 17 21:55:56 aah... if i did it was shop.nokia.de and they don't even list it :( Nov 17 21:56:16 alterego: yup Nov 17 21:56:19 Yeah .co.uk doesn't either. The one I selected. Nov 17 21:56:23 That Nokia start up screen has got to go... Nov 17 21:56:28 Nokia ought to have a less confusing launch coordination Nov 17 21:56:51 Probably in flash though :-/. Nov 17 21:56:56 K`zan, i'd like a flying-sphagetti monster touching adam's finger logo on boot Nov 17 21:56:56 LetsTalk.com (Nokia US online shop) claims a backorder up to Nov 27th... Nov 17 21:57:11 Amazon claims Nov 27th as well, I think. but MobileCityOnline claims Nov 23rd Nov 17 21:57:20 LOL, anything other than someone trying to grab me :) Nov 17 21:57:23 .. and LetsTalk apparently shipped some units already, out of their initial shipment Nov 17 21:58:45 http://www.itchstudios.com/psg/other/fsm.jpg Nov 17 21:58:46 Hummm, didn't complain about the nick not being registered... Nov 17 21:59:12 pupnik770: Heh, like that one... Nov 17 22:01:05 the artist shows up on freenode occasionally Nov 17 22:01:35 But how to replace the grubbing paws screen :) Nov 17 22:03:54 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=939 Nov 17 22:04:38 Just occured to me .. Nov 17 22:05:00 hd-plugin-manager.c might be autogenerated :) Nov 17 22:05:25 pupnik770: Thanks! Nov 17 22:06:19 that logo on my system is a jpg not a png though Nov 17 22:09:39 ssh on the device is WONDERFUL :). Nov 17 22:09:54 Even figured out how to change user's password! Nov 17 22:10:04 Love it more by the hour :). Nov 17 22:11:16 * alterego uses key auth Nov 17 22:11:34 K`zan_800: which device? 800 or 810? Nov 17 22:11:44 800 Nov 17 22:12:25 testing new boot logo Nov 17 22:12:46 Going to have to find something and then get it correctly formatted.... Nov 17 22:14:50 /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/qgn_indi_nokia_hands.jpg - not png Nov 17 22:16:31 not working here - when the progress bar loads i see the NOKIA logo instead of hands or my replacement image Nov 17 22:16:49 but then i see the image for 0.1 second before the desktop appears Nov 17 22:17:03 whoops Nov 17 22:17:13 possibly cause i have multiboot from mmc that it's not working Nov 17 22:17:41 link? Nov 17 22:17:46 never mind Nov 17 22:22:03 bye Nov 17 22:25:22 pupnik: Do you have R&D mode enabled? Nov 17 22:25:27 nope Nov 17 22:25:45 I believe that Nokia logo is somewhere on the initramfs. Nov 17 22:25:47 booting os2006 off mmc Nov 17 22:25:57 Makes sense to me. Nov 17 22:26:15 well i see the logo for a split second before the hildon desktop appears Nov 17 22:26:15 I know when I switched R&D mode on, it started showing it. It might also if you're booting off mmc. Nov 17 22:26:20 Right. Nov 17 22:26:32 Your logo, you mean. Nov 17 22:26:39 yes Nov 17 22:26:41 You'll also see it properly when you shut down. Nov 17 22:27:32 i just see the NOKIA logo on shutdown also Nov 17 22:27:54 Well, maybe that's a 770 thing, then. Nov 17 22:28:03 I know I see mine on the N800. Nov 17 22:28:06 ok Nov 17 22:28:23 Or maybe related to booting off mmc instead of being in R&D mode. Nov 17 22:28:27 not a big deal - device is almost always on here (nice and stable) Nov 17 22:28:27 yep Nov 17 22:31:03 This is starting to get me annoyed .. Nov 17 22:31:40 I can't find anything wrong with anything except things not working O_O Nov 17 22:32:09 For some reason hd_plugin_loader_get_type doesn't appear to be defined when getting linked :/ Nov 17 22:33:31 is possible to do a: dd if=/dev/mtdblock4 of=/media/mmc2/mybkp bs=1M Nov 17 22:33:38 Yes Nov 17 22:33:46 It'll take a while though. Nov 17 22:33:55 also if i'm booting from internal flash ? Nov 17 22:33:57 You might be better off piping it through an ssh connection or seomthing. Nov 17 22:34:21 Well, it's not exactly safe to do it when booting from the device no .. Nov 17 22:34:23 baceuse i'm getting an error Nov 17 22:34:36 because* Nov 17 22:35:03 dd: /dev/mtdblock4: Input/Output error Nov 17 22:35:15 after about 88mb copied Nov 17 22:35:27 Ah, that'd be EOF Nov 17 22:35:34 Maybe .. Nov 17 22:35:37 :) Nov 17 22:36:19 so ? is it an error or not ? Nov 17 22:36:43 is this type of backup supposed to work only if i boot from mmc ? Nov 17 22:38:19 It doesn't exist .. Nov 17 22:38:40 The hd_plugin_loader_get_type method isn't in any f*cking library in the SDK! Nov 17 22:38:51 WTF?! Nov 17 22:40:19 That is _retarded_ .. Nov 17 22:40:36 p|_, yes. don't do it when you're actually using the device. Nov 17 22:40:45 (internal flash boot) Nov 17 22:41:01 ok, thanks Nov 17 22:41:13 https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/hildon-desktop/2.0.4-1/src/hd-plugin-loader.h Nov 17 22:41:26 tko, that's meaning less Nov 17 22:41:46 library vs. executable ? Nov 17 22:41:47 tko, I've been staring at those files for over a week. The symbol isn't in any shared library I can find. Nov 17 22:41:51 I'm getting linking errors. Nov 17 22:42:05 after i have installed the OS2008 (and re-flash to OS2007) now i see while boot some extra info over the nokia logo Nov 17 22:42:14 oh well, another reason to kick jobi Nov 17 22:42:16 it do not show this before Nov 17 22:42:29 pl_: is it green? Nov 17 22:42:30 I've wasted so much time on this. Nov 17 22:42:37 And the problem isn't even obvious .. Nov 17 22:42:39 yes timelyx Nov 17 22:42:40 <_Monkey> hmmm... timelyx is timelyx's mac, it has scrollback Nov 17 22:42:53 There don't appear to be _any_ plugin_loader related symbols being exported. Nov 17 22:42:53 you're in R&D mode, you can disable it w/ some flasher args Nov 17 22:43:03 ha ok Nov 17 22:43:05 something like --clear-rd-flags=... --disable-rd-mode Nov 17 22:43:08 thanks Nov 17 22:43:15 i'll search in itt Nov 17 22:43:28 ./flasher* --help Nov 17 22:44:20 --disable-rd-mode enough Nov 17 22:45:05 How can a library be built without these symbols being exported? Nov 17 22:45:19 * alterego wonders if this is local to the SDK. Nov 17 22:45:41 * alterego takes a few deep breaths .. Nov 17 22:45:55 Getting angry isn't going to help me .. Nov 17 22:48:18 if the function is part of the executable it is available for any plugin that is dlopened into that process Nov 17 22:48:41 http://www.nokia.de/A4630299 german Nokia.de link to N810 info page - not in the shop yet Nov 17 22:49:03 You never know, alterego, you could end up turning into the Incredible Hulk/Programmer. ;) Nov 17 22:49:25 Heh Nov 17 22:49:36 And do what? Fix all the crap that's wrong with hildondesktop? Nov 17 22:50:09 This issue doesn't make any sense at all. Nov 17 22:50:25 You'll release a perfectly stable, 3x faster and endlessly awesome OS2009 release within mere hours. Nov 17 22:50:42 That would be interesting. Nov 17 22:51:58 http://lemonodor.com/archives/2007/10/youre_doing_it_wrong.html Nov 17 22:52:03 hot damn Nov 17 22:52:15 IT 2008 looks soo much better than IT 2007 Nov 17 22:52:18 i need to get in a spaceship going 0.9c for a few hours until the N810 hits germany Nov 17 22:52:20 I can't believe this is happening ... Nov 17 22:52:21 yes Nov 17 22:53:07 so did anyone buy the n810 today? Nov 17 22:53:25 i would really like one if i had the extra money, but i guess i will settle for n800 Nov 17 22:53:38 It's not out in my country. Nov 17 22:54:20 yeah Nov 17 22:54:27 I plan to order one when it's available, but ... not yet, in the US Nov 17 22:55:02 I wonder if it's available in Finland yet ^_^ Nov 17 22:55:38 l7: still stuck in pre-order land :) Nov 17 22:55:39 Well, sure, if you go knock over Nokia HQ. Nov 17 22:55:42 there's a nokia store in downtown helsinki Nov 17 22:55:44 it is out in some US cities i think Nov 17 22:55:49 i could check there today (sunday) Nov 17 22:55:51 l7: yeah, someone got it in Chicago Nov 17 22:55:57 they called me telling me it was ready Nov 17 22:56:05 alterego: can't you call the local store and reserve a unit? Nov 17 22:56:12 if only i could afford one... Nov 17 22:56:21 I don't have a local store. Nov 17 22:56:26 If only it were worth the money over the N800. :P Nov 17 22:56:29 l7: you can make money offering to buy it for other people :) Nov 17 22:56:31 http://www.nokia.fi/A4353630 Nov 17 22:56:37 hircus: really? Nov 17 22:56:42 alterego: ah, thought you were asking about Finland Nov 17 22:56:47 hircus: where? on ebay? Nov 17 22:57:01 Doesn't look like it's out in Finland yet either ^_^ Nov 17 22:57:05 Can anyone out there explain to me what the point is of sid-support and ogg-support when they don't appear to do anything? Nov 17 22:57:11 i guess i might as well since i reserved one Nov 17 22:57:13 l7: lots of people living in Canada, etc. can't buy it directly Nov 17 22:57:18 what's sid-support? Nov 17 22:57:32 Supposedly adds .sid music support to the tablet. Nov 17 22:57:32 hircus: what's the most trusted way to do this? Nov 17 22:57:35 so yes. announce it in internettablettalk -- but make sure the unit is in stock at your local store Nov 17 22:57:40 i haven't really experimetned w/ ebay Nov 17 22:57:44 what's sid? Nov 17 22:57:52 l7: I'd say eBay and only accepting Paypal account-holders Nov 17 22:57:52 what is sid? Nov 17 22:57:56 timelyx: Are you kidding me? Nov 17 22:58:00 no? Nov 17 22:58:06 timelyx: C64 music files. Nov 17 22:58:07 .sid -- old music format, no? can't remember the details Nov 17 22:58:07 aha Nov 17 22:58:08 i'm a browser dev, not a music philo Nov 17 22:58:11 debian unstable Nov 17 22:58:13 I've got a really silly problem. I'm trying to get the Chinook SDK working but apt-get from inside scratchbox can't resolve any hostnames (wget can though) Nov 17 22:58:20 hircus: would people trust someone w/o a seller history though? Nov 17 22:58:27 bah, i was a fli/flc/mid fan myself Nov 17 22:58:29 l7: good point Nov 17 22:58:30 i could use amazon marketplace perhaps Nov 17 22:58:36 l7: same problem Nov 17 22:58:52 i asked and was told there was sid support, but no good mid support Nov 17 22:58:53 timelyx: Those would be nice too. Nov 17 22:58:53 and on Amazon, the top sellers have, what, thousands of ratings. so it's harder Nov 17 22:58:55 oh i thought amazon gave the buyer more insurance Nov 17 22:59:13 l7: if you accept Paypal users only, they automatically have, I think, $200 insurance Nov 17 22:59:33 I'd sell myself if only I have access to a local store where I can just quickly pick them up :) Nov 17 22:59:45 hircus: hrm, i think they would want more insurance than that Nov 17 22:59:54 * alterego attempts to fix hildon-desktop Nov 17 23:00:11 I'm not going to have wasted all this time for nothing. Nov 17 23:00:58 well it's a cool idea, i was sort of thinking about it, but the whole ebay world has sort of eluded me Nov 17 23:01:22 reggie's video on the n810 is really nice Nov 17 23:01:37 it is indeed Nov 17 23:01:42 You could do it on a case-by-case with Paypal through ITT, l7. Nov 17 23:01:48 tko: who is the first image on that page, do you know? Nov 17 23:01:53 It's just too bad that Reggie's voice makes me want to fall asleep. Nov 17 23:02:12 Ha Nov 17 23:02:15 So the N810 is officially out? Nov 17 23:02:17 Other than that, very good video. Nov 17 23:02:28 GeneralAntilles: what kind of markup would be reasonable to charge for shipping units to people? Nov 17 23:02:29 it's been out for a few days, afaict Nov 17 23:02:35 elb: nope, but it might be said in the comments Nov 17 23:02:39 oh wait. Reggie's video, not thoughtfix's .. where, on the main page? Nov 17 23:02:42 seems like you would have to buy insured shipping too Nov 17 23:02:44 What countries? Nov 17 23:02:53 timelyx: it's Schrodingerly out Nov 17 23:03:08 hircus: it's out and then it's out of stock? Nov 17 23:03:13 Hm.. microb-spellcheck.. interesting. Nov 17 23:03:28 refresh... refresh... Nov 17 23:03:31 zerojay: iirc that was missing a ui element :( Nov 17 23:03:41 I'll try it anyways. Nov 17 23:03:56 timelyx: yes. and the non-Nokia shops are not even selling it yet Nov 17 23:04:14 makes me wonder why Nokia can't coordinate launches like how Sony, Nintendo, Apple does it Nov 17 23:04:44 hircus: you must have missed the n800 launch Nov 17 23:04:58 there was the launch date, and then there was the day you could get it in stores Nov 17 23:04:59 * Tieku just ordered himself an n800 on ebay :-D Nov 17 23:05:03 timelyx: I was there Nov 17 23:05:04 There's a difference between "can't" and "can't be bothered" or "won't" Nov 17 23:05:10 or should i say, there was the day you could get it in stores, and then there was the launch Nov 17 23:05:21 alterego: ah yes. "can't be bothered" Nov 17 23:05:25 Nokia are perfectly _capable_ of a coordinated launch. They obviously choose not to. Nov 17 23:05:36 * timelyx questions that Nov 17 23:05:40 so it's between accusing incompetence and accusing callousness :) Nov 17 23:05:46 Or the day before the launch date you could buy it in stores if you went to the right CompUSA. :D Nov 17 23:05:55 GeneralAntilles: my point exactly Nov 17 23:05:56 hey guys, any idea whether mplayer is available for OS2008? Nov 17 23:05:59 exactly! they did not put a gag-order on the shops Nov 17 23:06:09 hircus: that worked well enough for HP Nov 17 23:06:11 same case with LetsTalk and the Chicago store this time around, no? Nov 17 23:06:14 * timelyx shrugs Nov 17 23:06:15 HP .. ugh Nov 17 23:06:19 hmm, like apple launching iphone several months before you could get it in stores? was there a point somewhere? Nov 17 23:06:22 if a book seller can't get a coordinated launch right Nov 17 23:06:27 what makes you think a phone vendor can? Nov 17 23:06:31 HP's launch of their anniversary-edition calculator works well, actually Nov 17 23:06:33 maybe nokia just ships to USA faster so they can make some money before the dollar becomes worthless Nov 17 23:06:33 Tieku: how much did the n800 cost on ebay? Nov 17 23:06:38 hircus: wrong HP Nov 17 23:06:39 pupnik: hah Nov 17 23:06:46 haha Nov 17 23:06:57 but otherwise.. HP is quoting different prices for the same components depending on whether you go HP/Intel, HP/AMD, Compaq/Intel or Compaq/AMD :P Nov 17 23:06:57 it HAS to bounce sooner or later :-P Nov 17 23:07:06 * timelyx meant the wizard... Nov 17 23:07:32 tko: well, pre-announcing is fine Nov 17 23:07:37 elb with M3 growing at 14% APR? not any time soon Nov 17 23:07:44 The gag order on the last HP was a joke. Nov 17 23:07:47 but the shipping should be coordinated Nov 17 23:07:54 There aren't going to be any more HPs, so . . . who cares? Nov 17 23:08:08 So it seems other people have had the problem with apt-get not resolving hostnames inside Scratchbox, but the suggested fixes are all already in place on my system and it still doesn't work. Irksome. Nov 17 23:08:10 oh, Harry Potter :P Nov 17 23:08:16 pupnik: M3? Nov 17 23:08:21 * GeneralAntilles had to cart boxes and boxes of HP across a sweltering parking lot. :( Nov 17 23:08:32 (M3 is not a term with which I am familiar) Nov 17 23:08:43 Economics, elb. Nov 17 23:08:45 GeneralAntilles: my sympathies :) Nov 17 23:08:51 elb a measure of the money supply - they create more credit and dollars, this leads to inflation Nov 17 23:08:57 GeneralAntilles: that's not really a useful answer Nov 17 23:09:08 It gives you enough to hit wiki. ;) Nov 17 23:09:12 could someone do a quick rehash of the difference between M2, M3, M4? :) Nov 17 23:09:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply Nov 17 23:09:30 wikipedia is generally full of lies and worthlessness, if that's what you mean by 'wiki' Nov 17 23:09:32 i just watch shadowgovtstats.com to see trends in dollar Nov 17 23:09:33 l7: i got it for £123 Nov 17 23:09:47 elb: ah, you mean 'statistics' :) Nov 17 23:10:03 you're missing damn lies Nov 17 23:10:05 pupnik: I keep hearing all about all the inflation, but ... if anything, I have seen deflation in the past 12 months, empirically Nov 17 23:10:08 Doesn't look like it's available in _any_ online shop. Nov 17 23:10:16 a very important part of statistics Nov 17 23:10:22 pupnik: it's not clear to me that we have any idea what the problem is :-) Nov 17 23:10:34 alterego: which country? Nov 17 23:10:42 Woo, working now. Nov 17 23:10:43 _any_ country. Nov 17 23:10:52 I pick my gurus and follow them blindly Nov 17 23:11:15 hey, does the nokia.com/nokiausa.com store have correct product info for the n810 yet? Nov 17 23:11:15 all hail me? ;) Nov 17 23:11:20 last i checked, the n810 was weightless Nov 17 23:11:22 confusing, right? unless you know from somewhere else, you'd not know that you can preorder it Nov 17 23:11:29 weightless -- awesome Nov 17 23:11:43 hircus: among some other very amusing detials Nov 17 23:11:48 Pre order it from where? Nov 17 23:11:49 s/ia/ai/ Nov 17 23:11:50 timelyx meant: hircus: among some other very amusing details Nov 17 23:11:59 You can't preorder it from the online shops. Nov 17 23:12:04 alterego: amazon.com, mobilecityonline.com, letstalk.com <= Nokia's own store Nov 17 23:12:06 There are no shops in the UK .. Nov 17 23:12:13 alterego: yes you can. oh, not in the UK, probably Nov 17 23:12:20 No, you can't. Nov 17 23:12:22 alterego: ah, for letstalk you might have to call Nov 17 23:12:27 Not if you have the discount code like me. Nov 17 23:12:42 yeah, those of us with discount codes apparently have to wait for some magic word :-) Nov 17 23:12:43 yep :( Nov 17 23:12:49 I doubt any store selling the N810 would accept my discount code. Nov 17 23:12:54 I think letstalk does the $75 discount code Nov 17 23:13:02 You think .. Nov 17 23:13:10 is it that, or the full developer discount? Nov 17 23:13:25 I have the device program discount code. Nov 17 23:13:38 _a_ device program discount code .. Nov 17 23:14:07 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11642 Nov 17 23:14:19 yes, the device program one probably won't work Nov 17 23:14:24 I suppose this is why Python don't have a working desktop plugin system Nov 17 23:14:38 Despite maemo having written the python loader and it being in SVN. Nov 17 23:15:57 Don't think that map download is working - everything flashing, but progress bar going nowhere... Nov 17 23:16:09 686MB Nov 17 23:16:21 It's probably going slowely. Nov 17 23:16:37 Def doing that. Wonder where it plans to put it?!? Nov 17 23:16:46 SD card Nov 17 23:16:49 Does it select the SD card with most space. Nov 17 23:16:52 bingo Nov 17 23:16:53 Ah, good Nov 17 23:17:01 Clever little thing :)! Nov 17 23:17:27 someone mentioned needing 2x the map size in free space for map download Nov 17 23:17:35 are discount codes only available to developers? Nov 17 23:17:39 Got a 4G and 1G card in there. Nov 17 23:17:50 l7: No, they were given to 500 people who applied. Nov 17 23:18:19 If I hadn't already had a decent GPS, I might have considered the 810. Nov 17 23:18:29 zerojay: where di they apply? Nov 17 23:18:37 l7: program closed by now, I think Nov 17 23:18:44 but it was announced at maemo.org Nov 17 23:18:54 If one could get into it :-(. Nov 17 23:19:02 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html Nov 17 23:19:13 Which reminds me, I should try getting into it again today and see if it works. Nov 17 23:19:17 Does your GPS access the internet and is it able to run 3rd party applications? Nov 17 23:19:34 Works today! Nov 17 23:19:38 Or navigate with google satellite maps? Nov 17 23:19:51 so are all the people who applied developers? Nov 17 23:19:54 l7: You're way too late. Nov 17 23:19:58 or just people who submitted ideas? Nov 17 23:20:01 l7: No. Nov 17 23:20:11 What is this assigning some of the SD card to "virtual memory" thing? Nov 17 23:20:15 No, I had a friend who applied and got accepted that is in no-way a a developer :) Nov 17 23:20:18 Expands the on device RAM? Nov 17 23:20:22 ah well, i thought it was only for devs Nov 17 23:20:22 err FLASH Nov 17 23:20:27 It's a swap space, you want it K`zan_800. Nov 17 23:20:39 how much was the discount? Nov 17 23:20:40 How much is good? Nov 17 23:20:46 128 Nov 17 23:20:53 It means that instead of spontaneously rebooting, your device just gets really, really slow. Nov 17 23:20:59 OK, that's easy, thanks :)! Nov 17 23:21:12 l7, you should read more carefully. there was a _BIG_ point made about it. Nov 17 23:21:42 l7, N810 for 99 EUR to the fortunate 5000 Nov 17 23:21:45 ~500 Nov 17 23:21:46 hmm... 500 is at #tuxboxproject Nov 17 23:21:53 Surprising maemo isn't on the default bookmarks.. Nov 17 23:22:05 why? Nov 17 23:22:19 He's easily suprised? :) Nov 17 23:22:25 An important resource for N stuff? Nov 17 23:22:32 LOL, true :-) Nov 17 23:22:32 no Nov 17 23:22:39 No? Nov 17 23:22:48 Instead it's filled with stupid trendy "green" crap. Nov 17 23:22:48 N800 developer discount was only for developers. N810 program was for developers and anyone who helps the platform (i.e. evangelists, doc writers etc) Nov 17 23:23:01 GeneralAntilles: nokia changed its values about a year ago Nov 17 23:23:08 alterego: i assumed i was unworthy, not being a dev :) Nov 17 23:23:10 green stuff was a "new" value Nov 17 23:23:20 so our customers get to suffer from it :) Nov 17 23:23:21 I'm a particularly fan of the charger disconnect warning. :\ Nov 17 23:23:28 *-ly Nov 17 23:23:34 heck, even Dell will offer to plant a tree for you when you purchase something :) Nov 17 23:23:38 Assumptions will make you look foolish in the end. You missed out on a great opportunity. Nov 17 23:24:00 GeneralAntilles, I've not seen that warning. Nov 17 23:24:09 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2285 Nov 17 23:24:17 Yeah, like it is going to use up all the electricity on the planet... Nov 17 23:24:17 alterego: leave your device charging for 2 days Nov 17 23:24:22 There's a picture at the bottom. Nov 17 23:24:28 you'll get the message Nov 17 23:24:28 GeneralAntilles, it's odd. Considering how the chargers drop to almost no power consumption when charging has finished. Nov 17 23:24:47 alterego: my impression is that a government complained Nov 17 23:24:57 O_o Nov 17 23:24:57 Ugh Nov 17 23:25:06 slightly unrelated, i think some gov was complaining about devices using standbye mode Nov 17 23:25:09 s/ye/e/ Nov 17 23:25:09 timelyx meant: slightly unrelated, i think some gov was complaining about devices using standbe mode Nov 17 23:25:11 blah Nov 17 23:25:13 whatever Nov 17 23:25:20 yes, Britain Nov 17 23:25:26 I'd be more worried about my VCR. Nokia chargers are the best I've ever used for power consumption. Nov 17 23:25:32 They really are top-notch. Nov 17 23:25:41 the Conservatives brought it up to out-green the govt, and naturally the govt felt they had to respond Nov 17 23:25:44 heh I unplug my coffee grinder because it gets physically warm to the touch, doing nothing :-P Nov 17 23:25:52 I think it's more a worry with HDTV owners :) Nov 17 23:25:58 it's amazing how much power a lot of appliances use doing nothing Nov 17 23:26:02 LOL one might think... Nov 17 23:26:11 I assume the concern is that the inverter is drawing power doing nothing? Nov 17 23:26:26 Yeah it is, it's also amazing how little power the Nokia phone chargers take when doing nothing :P Nov 17 23:26:51 I'm going to do a study showing that the CPU cycles wasted in showing that banner actually exceed the charger in the amount of power used. :P Nov 17 23:26:57 I keep meaning to buy a kWh meter Nov 17 23:27:01 You could be fooled into thinking they're not actually plugged in. Nov 17 23:27:17 More nuke plants *please*. Nov 17 23:27:18 GeneralAntilles, you're probably right ;) Nov 17 23:27:37 If only I could turn it off. Nov 17 23:27:37 'night to all ! Nov 17 23:27:41 It just gets in the way. Nov 17 23:28:10 you can't :( Nov 17 23:28:35 This whole green trendiness thing makes me want to become a cutter. Nov 17 23:28:44 Hah Nov 17 23:28:48 Understand that. Nov 17 23:29:03 Done some actual research there 'eh GeneralAntilles? ;-) Nov 17 23:29:15 Actually, just for spite, I'm going to leave an extra CFL on 24/7. Nov 17 23:29:21 still preferable than the SUV craze in the '90s, but yes, a lot of it is hype Nov 17 23:29:33 All that mercury, tisk, tisk... Nov 17 23:29:43 GeneralAntilles: could be worse. incandescent lightbulb! Nov 17 23:29:52 Cheaper than a heater :) Nov 17 23:29:57 Ha Nov 17 23:30:00 I was just going to say that. Nov 17 23:30:02 K`zan_800: very true. Nov 17 23:30:14 Especially here in Florida where it really doesn't get THAT cold. Nov 17 23:30:16 Envrioloons, sigh... Nov 17 23:30:21 so I guess they should be banned in summer only :) Nov 17 23:30:34 They've politicized the whole environment issue Nov 17 23:30:40 I think Australia is actually phasing them out completely -- you won't be able to buy them anymore Nov 17 23:30:45 it's so far gone that they're just driving people away. Nov 17 23:30:47 I see a market in LED Christmas decorations Nov 17 23:30:47 Yep, go back and live in caves that will make them happy... Nov 17 23:30:55 No, kill yourself. Nov 17 23:31:13 Anyway, just be sure to vote for my bug! :P Nov 17 23:31:14 * alterego already has LED christmas lights. Nov 17 23:31:15 Right, I was just about to say that they will only be happy when all humanity is dead. Nov 17 23:31:19 I've got several in fact. Nov 17 23:31:19 that's the problem with any movement, really? That the self-righteous core end up pissing off everyone else Nov 17 23:31:39 Easier to be religious about it than actually do and understand real research. Nov 17 23:31:40 alterego: neat! where did you get them? Nov 17 23:31:49 and they've got hypocrites like Al Gore as their main cheerleaders. Nov 17 23:31:57 hircus, I can't remember. I think it was Maplin Nov 17 23:32:19 That map download has really got the device constipated :-). Nov 17 23:32:20 alterego: ah. fond memories of undergrad days Nov 17 23:32:49 yeah, the problem with politicizing an issue is that then the other side tends to distrust whatever you say Nov 17 23:33:06 Especially when 90% of what you say isn't actually backed up by facts. Nov 17 23:33:23 Yep, too true. Only recently have the real climateologist been allowed to be heard. Nov 17 23:33:28 Which is sad, as the environment is an issue EVERYBODY can get behind. Nov 17 23:33:38 And they all say BS :-/. Nov 17 23:34:16 Yep, but a good scam, anyone want to buy carbon credits from me? Just take a few to print up however many you want :) Nov 17 23:34:42 algore might get upset with me horning in on his cash cow though... Nov 17 23:34:52 Sheesh Nov 17 23:35:15 Starving, chow, bbiab Nov 17 23:35:35 * pupnik likes to back-up over the facts in his Hummer Nov 17 23:36:12 Holy cow I've found it. Nov 17 23:36:20 Al Gore's cash cow is all the boards of directors he sits on, not the environment. Nov 17 23:36:33 But that gets publicity for the loons... Nov 17 23:36:58 Apple. I commented when he was appointed that it's so fitting Nov 17 23:37:14 the guy who invented the Internet (and the environment) and the company that "invented" the GUI Nov 17 23:37:29 What does the Ndx field in readelf -s mean? Nov 17 23:38:29 alterego: index? Nov 17 23:38:40 Yeah, I worked that out now :) Nov 17 23:38:57 I thought I found the symbol, but it's UND (undefined) I guess. Nov 17 23:39:07 The occurance was actually in _my_ plugin loader. Nov 17 23:39:32 that is to be expected Nov 17 23:39:37 yeah Nov 17 23:39:50 it'd be kinda bad if it were in our libraries :) Nov 17 23:39:58 So who's life do I threaten to get this fixed? Nov 17 23:40:21 lucasr if he were here. jobi is the next best thing :) Nov 17 23:40:24 is it defined in a nokia header? Nov 17 23:40:48 It's generated by the G_DEFINE_TYPE macro Nov 17 23:40:57 gah Nov 17 23:41:00 lucas, having written the python loader, is likely to be able to explain how those things are meant to be implemented Nov 17 23:41:01 Basically a whole section of hildon-desktop is missing. Nov 17 23:41:05 I can't find a single symbol .. Nov 17 23:41:06 #define glib very(evil) Nov 17 23:41:10 FUBMLE! Nov 17 23:41:19 Err, wrong channel. Nov 17 23:41:29 my initial guess is that you're just doing it wrong :) Nov 17 23:41:31 did you mean Fumble? Nov 17 23:41:40 Yeah, I'd half agree. Nov 17 23:41:44 but since I don't know anything about the details, I'm not claiming that Nov 17 23:41:51 But I've search _every_ shared object on my system for these symbols .. Nov 17 23:41:59 tko: you're not adventurous enough :) Nov 17 23:42:09 alterego: did you look at the python loader? Nov 17 23:42:09 I've built the latest svn release of hildon-desktop too. Nov 17 23:42:18 The loader isn't the problem. Nov 17 23:42:28 I'm either building it wrong. Or I'm right. Nov 17 23:42:41 My wireless connection has been lagging pretty badly, so stuff shows up several seconds after I type it, which usually includes hitting Enter. Nov 17 23:42:48 Is the python loader even available for download? Nov 17 23:42:55 I've not seen it, just the source code. Nov 17 23:44:34 pyphantom maybe Nov 17 23:45:43 686M by wireless goes on for a while. Nov 17 23:49:34 Wish I knew where that was downloading to just to be sure it is really doing something. Nov 17 23:50:06 tko, the symbols are in the intermediate output object file for the build. But I've _literally_ search every .so in the build and can't find the symbol in them. Nov 17 23:50:14 Anyone have any ideas how this could happen? Nov 17 23:50:25 How does a chunk of library go missing :( Nov 17 23:51:12 Optimizing linker? Nov 17 23:51:42 Oh .. This is interesting. Nov 17 23:52:02 Symbol visibility specifications? Nov 17 23:52:39 GLOBAL DEFAULT :/ Nov 17 23:52:58 someone has defined a function but not implemented it and no-one happens to use it.. happens all the time Nov 17 23:53:22 It's a get_type function generated by G_DEFINE_TYPE Nov 17 23:53:47 I's a shared library for god sake. Of course the function isn't going to be used. Nov 17 23:54:01 dunno what I'm talking about anyways, didn't ready anything :) Nov 17 23:55:06 I mean if no-one has used it ever then no-one has come across this problem and that's how it could have slipped through the rigorous 24/7 automatic testing Nov 17 23:55:24 Interesting .. It's also in an executable called 'hildon-desktop' Nov 17 23:57:24 alterego: I told you that like an hour ago Nov 17 23:58:02 What did you tell me an hour ago Nov 17 23:58:03 ? Nov 17 23:58:26 that the function is in executable Nov 17 23:58:39 Oh Nov 17 23:59:00 Wait, I thought you were saying it was in _my_ executable. Nov 17 23:59:08 Are you talking about the UND? Nov 17 23:59:18 Or the _real_ function location? Nov 17 23:59:47 the real one, the one declared in the URL I pasted Nov 18 00:00:13 UND just means you're referring to it IIRC Nov 18 00:00:32 Yes Nov 18 00:00:43 Would you mind pasting the link again :) Nov 18 00:00:48 I must have missed it .. Nov 18 00:00:54 (not in back buffer either) Nov 18 00:01:09 bleh.. search for the function name in google and it's the first one Nov 18 00:01:30 (or the first link is to an older tag, but it's trivial to find the latest version) Nov 18 00:01:32 Oh, you mean the source file? Nov 18 00:01:43 Right, now I get you. Nov 18 00:01:56 That doesn't matter. I've been staring at that file for ages. Nov 18 00:03:19 Okay, so it's in an executable. And I'm supposed to link against that .. Nov 18 00:03:20 from the looks of it I'm almost certain the function is implemented in hildon-desktop and thus is available for all plugins Nov 18 00:03:36 Yes, I've seen it implemented in hildon-desktop. Nov 18 00:03:45 So what do I do to access it? Nov 18 00:04:06 just use it? Nov 18 00:04:19 Do I directly link against that executable? Or is there a pkg-config? Nov 18 00:05:36 if you build a shared library (plugin) and call the function it should just work Nov 18 00:05:48 alterego: it sounds like you're building as an executable, and not a library Nov 18 00:05:48 It doesn't. Nov 18 00:06:00 libraries are allowed to have unresolved symbols, executables (by default) are not Nov 18 00:06:09 I know. Nov 18 00:06:35 Hmm .. Nov 18 00:06:58 Okay, my dummy factory plugin loader wouldn't load because hildon-desktop isn't included. Nov 18 00:07:05 I wonder what the original error message was in the first place Nov 18 00:07:14 There wasn't one. Nov 18 00:07:47 Well, when the plugin was trying to load, I got: "no loader for plugin type: ruby" or some such. Nov 18 00:08:01 I did post this on the mailing list last week .. Nov 18 00:10:03 * alterego tries again with his skeleton plugin loader plugin. Nov 18 00:10:52 Aha. Nov 18 00:10:54 Genius, Nov 18 00:11:14 I'm getting a different error this time :) Nov 18 00:11:22 That .. Is a good thing. Nov 18 00:18:27 Nice my loader killed hildon-desktop! Nov 18 00:19:18 That probably should be allowed to happen :/ Nov 18 00:19:39 ~shouldn't .. Nov 18 00:20:50 anybody with a n800 / n810 want to try new dosbox? it should be a touch faster Nov 18 00:21:05 pupnik, sure. Nov 18 00:21:12 pupnik.de/dosbox.html Nov 18 00:21:40 i put the mapper.txt into cwd right now - eventually will set up dosbox.conf and mapper.txt to go into /etc or something Nov 18 00:21:57 2008? Nov 18 00:21:57 <_Monkey> 2008 is probably the year of the open handheld/phone Nov 18 00:22:07 it should be work... dunno if it can run on 2008 Nov 18 00:22:31 with the fullscreen key you can toggle fullscreen to use xkbd, which launches automatically now at startup Nov 18 00:22:45 or just click it away if it annoys Nov 18 00:22:55 I can't install it. I don't think it'll work on 2008 ;) Nov 18 00:23:20 And I like 2008 too much to go back to 2007 O_O Nov 18 00:23:33 hmm. dpkg -i dosbox*.deb should do it Nov 18 00:34:00 Cool, it's working :) Nov 18 00:37:42 please flag me if you see any crashes or serious problems Nov 18 00:38:55 Sure Nov 18 00:51:41 RX packets:171961 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 Nov 18 00:52:05 about 1/5th the way through the map download now, perhaps by tomorrow morning... Nov 18 00:58:04 Would be nice to be able to download it to the desktop and USB it over... Nov 18 01:18:08 It'll keep failing if you don't have the extra space Nov 18 01:18:15 multiply whatever you're trying to install by two. Nov 18 01:21:03 so for downloading maps maybe a 4GB sdhc card is needed? Nov 18 01:25:04 pupnik: what mapping app? Nov 18 01:25:27 the N810 only has 2GB internal SD, and it's supposedly only 80% full for the US map set Nov 18 01:26:35 i cant download the US west mapset to my n800 :( Nov 18 01:26:51 i should probably make some room on my internal card Nov 18 01:27:27 i aunno Nov 18 01:27:48 just lots of people in channel complaining about download problems lately Nov 18 01:31:09 nokia should offer sd or mini-sd cards with map sets preloaded Nov 18 01:44:47 so, am I understanding things right, that writing an Xlib-based application to be run on the Hildon desktop would require some Hildon-ized glue? Nov 18 01:45:30 xkbd is pure xlib afaik Nov 18 01:45:45 to start from a menu you need some wrapper at least Nov 18 01:46:31 a launcher or what-have-you is no trouble Nov 18 01:46:52 but, there's a Tk application I use every day, and I'm hoping I can get urxvt fired up Nov 18 01:47:20 If you want vkb input, you'll have to do some work. Nov 18 01:47:46 the on-screen keyboard? Nov 18 01:47:57 ... I guess that means it doesn't speak XIM Nov 18 01:47:57 Yes. Nov 18 01:48:20 curse all these modern environments for reinventing the wheel in nonportable ways Nov 18 01:48:31 They have their own protocol for managing when the keyboard is shown, and what window keystrokes go to, etc. Nov 18 01:48:39 (no that XIM doesn't completely suck, but all the modern toolkits invent their *own* input methods) Nov 18 01:50:00 so what's the story for handwriting recognition? Nov 18 01:50:15 I've seen it mentioned a couple of places, but very little information about it Nov 18 01:50:32 I have no idea. I don't use the stock input method at all. Nov 18 01:51:24 The handwriting is garbage. Nov 18 01:51:33 (at least from a Newton user's perspective) Nov 18 01:51:43 I primarily use the thumbboard. Nov 18 01:51:54 It turns out that handwriting recognition is really hard. Nov 18 01:53:02 Well, Apple managed to nail it in 1996 Nov 18 01:53:12 So I'm not sure what the excuse is 10 years later. Nov 18 01:54:00 I only used a Newton a couple of times, but I was not impressed Nov 18 01:54:12 how about bt kybrd? how does it differ from screen kybrd?? Nov 18 01:54:33 speaking of keyboards, is yours missing keys? Nov 18 01:55:19 You may have used one of the old ones. Nov 18 01:55:38 The 2000-series or better are the ones with good handwriting recognition. Nov 18 01:55:38 I used the last-generation eWhatever Nov 18 01:55:48 i am using the toothpick to type Nov 18 01:55:49 Once you got that thing trained up, it was unbelievable. Nov 18 01:55:55 Print completely natural. Nov 18 01:56:01 when they made the folding newtons with keyboards Nov 18 01:56:03 (cursive interpretter wasn't as good) Nov 18 01:56:06 eMate Nov 18 01:56:08 yeah Nov 18 01:56:16 Cursive is _really_ hard. Nov 18 01:56:23 I think taht's the thing -- if you didn't train them for 2000 years, they sucked Nov 18 01:56:25 I took all of my notes in high school with a 2100. Nov 18 01:56:28 I happen to be doing research in handwriting recognition for my job. Nov 18 01:56:34 and I never used one for long enough to train it that well Nov 18 01:56:37 Took a couple days to get it up to speed. Nov 18 01:56:44 Though, not for English. Nov 18 01:57:08 Then, tell me, derf, why has everything since the Newton sucked balls? :P Nov 18 01:57:26 * elb smells "nothing will ever be as good as my Amiga" complex ;-) Nov 18 01:57:41 Pfft Nov 18 01:57:45 I was actually pretty fond of Graffiti Nov 18 01:57:48 because it was so accurate Nov 18 01:58:05 I don't mind learning a simplified writing if it works well Nov 18 01:58:09 Now that's creepy. Nov 18 01:58:19 Voice synthesis just spat some kind of jibberish at me. Nov 18 01:58:43 Because the academics are all too busy pumping out PhD theses to worry about solving practical problems, and the practitioners don't have enough training to actually know what they're doing. Nov 18 01:58:59 The Newton's problem was size. Nov 18 01:59:05 what was interesting about the recognition engine for the later Newtons, is that it was developed for a Mac product that got cancelled. Nov 18 01:59:08 But it's exactly that size that made it reasonable to write on. Nov 18 01:59:49 (Where the hell did I hide my message pads? :\) Nov 18 02:00:07 the recog. engine is now part of OSX... if you use a Wacom or similar you can access it Nov 18 02:00:35 Anyway, these days people consider the roman alphabet largely a solved problem. Nov 18 02:04:07 anyone know where I can pick up a maemo development vmware image? Nov 18 02:04:07 one of the major problems with most PDAs, is how difficult it was to connect to other machines (what I called "speed bumps") The Palm model of Conduits was as bad as the Newton sync app. Nov 18 02:04:42 rhykin, look on the VMWare website Nov 18 02:05:53 (though I like keyboards.... still have an eMate somewhere) Nov 18 02:06:44 hey all Nov 18 02:07:48 derf. don't knock academics until you put yourself through the process.... and we do make contributions to real life problems Nov 18 02:08:53 drcoffee: I have a PhD. Nov 18 02:09:21 hola Nov 18 02:09:22 <_Monkey> hola, lopz Nov 18 02:10:55 ok, then complain.... I am procrastinating finishing an article.... should be grading midterms instead. Nov 18 02:11:56 And I'm reading someone's PhD thesis while procrastinating finishing up this contract work. Nov 18 02:12:23 and I'm just procrastinating on working on my thesis ;-) Nov 18 02:13:14 a fine tuned skill that comes from years of sitting on the hind quarter in front of computers, meetings, etc. Nov 18 02:15:32 anyway, I am trying to find out how the BT keyboard gets read. I am finding it quite unpredictable, the delay and repeat rates are set too low and I don't seem to find a way of adjusting the proper parameters (bug #2166... tried the usual things, but to no avail) Nov 18 02:15:33 <_Monkey> Bug 2166 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2166 Nov 18 02:16:16 Monkey.... any ideas regarding #2166? Nov 18 02:16:44 stupid infobots Nov 18 02:17:22 so, the last time I dealt with keyboards, was when ADB was the Mac standard.... Nov 18 02:19:16 is Monkey an infobot? (I don't use irc's often) Nov 18 02:19:52 yes Nov 18 02:20:04 it saw 'bug #nnnn' and responded Nov 18 02:20:21 it's a particularly annoying infobot, because it regularly responds to phrases not directed to it Nov 18 02:23:03 stupid monkey Nov 18 02:28:37 drcoffee, elb: http://www.structuredprocrastination.com/ Nov 18 02:29:59 so as you can gather, I filed the bug and have not received much of an answer. I have a bit of time (ok, I am procrastinating) and would like to understand how the bt keyboard events get processessssed Nov 18 02:30:03 derf: interesting Nov 18 02:32:15 derf: hah Nov 18 02:34:28 When I first read that, I was like, this is the story of my life. Nov 18 02:35:22 I'll read it later... when I haave time Nov 18 02:36:09 I wonder iif my file cabinet's 3rd drawer is organized? Nov 18 02:36:37 There's only one way to find out. Nov 18 02:37:00 And I'm pretty sure it involves wiring your file cabinet up with a serial connection and putting it on a web page. Nov 18 02:37:57 when is nokia ever going to add MST/Arizona to the osso clock Nov 18 02:38:12 totally screws the time zones Nov 18 02:39:55 no no, that was already done with the coke machine at MIT (they really have too much time on their hands....) Nov 18 02:40:43 my favorite was the guy who did it with the light switch in his dorm room. Nov 18 02:41:18 I was thinking more about writing a proposal for a ethnomethodological study on organizational research.... I could hire undergrads... write a couple of articles, yeah, that sounds like the ticket Nov 18 02:45:44 anyway, I should go make some headway on my real work (after a side trip to the espresso machine... not only do I drink coffee, I pull really cool shots and have a killer machine and grinder to help me procrastinate.... life is too short to drink swill) Nov 18 02:45:58 amen Nov 18 02:46:01 I roast my own Nov 18 02:46:05 mostly to procrastinate ;-) Nov 18 02:46:21 I train roasters and baristas Nov 18 02:46:28 I need to roast a batch tonight Nov 18 02:46:28 later Nov 18 02:46:36 down to about one more pot **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Nov 18 02:59:56 2007