**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 18 02:59:56 2007 Nov 18 03:27:56 somebody help me Nov 18 03:28:13 we need a decent keyboard input method for sdl applications Nov 18 03:28:14 whatcha need pupnik Nov 18 03:28:34 Not sure I can help you there :-(. Nov 18 03:28:39 i'm too stupid to do it Nov 18 03:28:50 Wish my USB keyboard would work :) Nov 18 03:29:15 if all maemo people suddenly bought n810s, the problem would be solved Nov 18 03:29:23 and i sincerely thank Nokia for making the N810 Nov 18 03:29:36 Ain't gonna happen here - not anytime soon that is. Nov 18 03:29:41 yeah well Nov 18 03:29:42 Ha Nov 18 03:29:47 But then I would have no storage. :( Nov 18 03:30:07 another thing that would work would be for a button combination to raise the hildon keyboard Nov 18 03:30:17 that would then type to any X app - sdl, xlib or gtk Nov 18 03:30:18 Even with one of the fold up USB keyboards, I am still a LONG way from the price of an 810. Nov 18 03:30:36 BT keyboards :) Nov 18 03:30:36 well K`zan just get a bluetooth keyboar Nov 18 03:30:40 yes Nov 18 03:30:48 Yep, gonna have to... Nov 18 03:31:04 GeneralAntilles: can you try new dosbox on n800 pls Nov 18 03:31:14 Unless I can hack a mini-usb on my usb keyboard and have it work. Nov 18 03:31:18 I don't have anything handy to run on it. Nov 18 03:31:20 Linky? Nov 18 03:31:28 http://pupnik.de/dosbox.html Nov 18 03:32:09 oh ON IT Nov 18 03:32:52 http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/xu4/ultima4-1.01.zip?download Nov 18 03:33:07 Cool, thanks. Nov 18 03:37:38 the dosbox gurus spent a lot of time with me to make it work on Nokia Nov 18 03:37:42 they deserve some thanks Nov 18 03:45:59 Where do I need to navigate to to get to the ultima4 folder on my external SD card? Nov 18 03:46:03 * GeneralAntilles is the biggest DOS n00b ever. Nov 18 03:46:32 \/media/mmc2/ultima4 ? Nov 18 03:47:40 OK, mounted c as /media/mmc1/ Nov 18 03:48:48 OK, I'm in the right folder Nov 18 03:48:55 Now how do I launch it, pupnik? :D Nov 18 03:49:38 um dosbox Nov 18 03:49:38 <_Monkey> well, dosbox is about as fast as an IBM XT/AT, available at http://pupnik.de/dosbox_maemo_065_001.tgz Nov 18 03:49:48 grah that's old Nov 18 03:50:00 i launch dosbox from xterm from /home/user Nov 18 03:50:11 and i put the dosbox.conf and mapper.txt there too Nov 18 03:50:19 I'm in dosbox Nov 18 03:50:19 check my page for some info Nov 18 03:50:22 ah Nov 18 03:50:29 then you can mount a directory Nov 18 03:50:39 mount d: /media/mmc1/my/dos/game/path Nov 18 03:50:51 then type d: Nov 18 03:50:55 to switch to that drive Nov 18 03:51:20 OK Nov 18 03:51:22 then type the name of the executeable to run Nov 18 03:51:23 like Nov 18 03:51:24 ultima Nov 18 03:52:56 Schweeeeet Nov 18 03:54:18 I suppose I should buy a bluetooth keyboard at some point. Nov 18 03:57:21 yeah I'm thinking about it Nov 18 03:57:34 I looked at bluetooth headphones... never realized how expensive they are Nov 18 04:04:26 that's baloney, Nov 18 04:04:32 bluetooth keyboard is godly Nov 18 04:04:43 headphones are two wires and speakers Nov 18 04:06:50 BT headphones are like >$95 Nov 18 04:09:26 and nothing works with them Nov 18 04:36:36 don't be arrogant because you have shoes Nov 18 04:50:40 I will be and there's nothing you can do about it. :P Nov 18 04:53:48 it is an accident of birth Nov 18 05:25:34 Has anybody connected a freedom universal bluetooth keyboard to the N800? Nov 18 05:26:52 bye Nov 18 05:27:32 Anyone know if a USB keyboard, with USB<->Mini-USB adapter would work on the n800? Nov 18 05:31:12 If it had enough power, K`zan. Nov 18 05:39:46 Has anyone else been unable to change the language on the latest OS2007 Hacker Edition for the N770? The error I get it "Device storage memory full, Remove Data to free memory" Nov 18 05:47:11 K`zan: thoughtfix made a video where he got a usb keyboard to work Nov 18 05:47:39 look on youtube for his tablet laptop project Nov 18 05:48:02 it required some fancy splicing of the usb cable to a power source Nov 18 05:48:52 What do I have to do to allow myself to ssh into the user account on the n800, keep getting "permission denied, please try again". I did log in as root and change user's passwd... Nov 18 05:49:05 Just use root Nov 18 05:49:08 and su from there. Nov 18 05:49:13 ah, OK. Nov 18 05:49:39 Silly message - denied and try again - is denied not denied - perhaps "Not allowed" would make more sense :-). Nov 18 05:50:11 Would like to get those bookmarks out and arrange them without tapping for the next six months :) Nov 18 06:05:00 No modules so I rather doubt that any USB devices are going to work with the n800 :-/. Nov 18 06:05:28 OTG stuff should be fine. Nov 18 06:06:08 OTG? Nov 18 06:06:17 on the go Nov 18 06:06:26 You mean the BT stuff? Nov 18 06:06:37 Basically, it introduces negotiation for host Nov 18 06:06:39 No, USB Nov 18 06:06:46 * K`zan confused Nov 18 06:06:49 Which, really, is just USB trying to pretend to be Firewire. Nov 18 06:07:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_OTG Nov 18 06:07:05 unless it is everything module wise built into kernel. Nov 18 06:07:10 Ah thanks, checking. Nov 18 06:10:10 GeneralAntilles: USB trying to be Firewire is a good thing, surely Nov 18 06:10:21 if only they did that from the beginning Nov 18 06:10:38 Hehe Nov 18 06:10:53 I wonder if I hack a mini-USB on a USB keyboard if it would work?!? Nov 18 06:11:16 It still needs power. Nov 18 06:11:20 So if it has power, yes. Nov 18 06:11:42 That is easy enough with the piles of batteries and wall warts around here :) Nov 18 06:12:00 I that will work I am off to make it up! Nov 18 06:12:05 there are those 6-pin-to-4-pin Firewire cables that come with a power adapter, right? Nov 18 06:12:16 someone should make the same one for USB-to-mini Nov 18 06:12:16 tapping is fine for on the go, but... Nov 18 06:12:58 K`zan: tried a typing test yet? I'd love to know the speed ratio between N810 built-in, a Bluetooth travel keyboard and a full-sized, full-depth keyboard Nov 18 06:13:15 hircus: Got to make up one first :-). Nov 18 06:13:35 I figure I'm running about 40wpm on the thumbboard on the N800. Nov 18 06:13:57 Got the keyboard, a cable with a mini-usb to hack and I just need to figure out the power aspect of it. Nov 18 06:16:51 GeneralAntilles: that's really decent Nov 18 06:17:42 The key is to use your fingertips (exactly the opposite of what you do on the iPhone). Nov 18 06:19:47 GeneralAntilles: where you use your.. er.. finger pads? Nov 18 06:19:56 Basically. Nov 18 06:20:01 * hircus wondering about finger smudging .. ugh Nov 18 06:20:06 The iPhone doesn't like small stylus-like inputs Nov 18 06:20:09 It's actually not bad Nov 18 06:20:38 unless you wander around wish a melted Hersheys bar in your hands all day, the iPhone stays fairly clean. Nov 18 06:20:49 well, if you have greasy fingers then you'll spend a lot of time wiping the screen Nov 18 06:20:58 (of note, I don't actually own an iPhone, but I did have to get my mother's setup ;)) Nov 18 06:21:33 I've briefly tried a friend's, plus trying it in the shop (hint: AT&T, if you chain your iPhone with a short cable, it makes trying it out really awkward) Nov 18 06:22:39 Ha Nov 18 06:25:36 funny, though. tell iPhone fans that it's not open and they're quick to say "but the SDK is coming in February!" Nov 18 06:27:38 Hehe Nov 18 06:27:40 Well, it is. :) Nov 18 06:35:58 GeneralAntilles: I know. but still, it struck me that Apple fans don't mind monopolistic behavior as long as it's not Microsoft's :) Nov 18 06:36:13 Pfft Nov 18 06:36:15 Monopolistic Nov 18 06:36:25 Now that's a misuse of a term if I ever heard one. ;) Nov 18 06:36:38 In order to behave monopolistically, you have to have a monopoly. Nov 18 06:36:51 :) Nov 18 06:36:52 Closed and proprietary behavior is what it is. Nov 18 06:37:00 Apple has a monopoly on iPhone software Nov 18 06:37:03 ah yes, ok Nov 18 06:37:34 OK, I think I have the circuit worked out... Nov 18 06:38:27 I'm saving my determination on the iPhone for the end of next year. Nov 18 06:39:10 my main interaction with Apple right now, as an ex-Mac user, is some cursing whenever I see a podcast site that does not have an RSS feed but has an iTunes subscribe button Nov 18 06:40:12 Ha Nov 18 06:40:15 * GeneralAntilles is a current user. Nov 18 06:40:41 * hircus would have been a current user had Apple updated the Macbooks properly, back in May Nov 18 06:40:53 Laptops are garbage. ;) Nov 18 06:41:05 GeneralAntilles: laptops are the new desktops Nov 18 06:41:05 There's always OSx86. Nov 18 06:41:20 they are portable workstations :) Nov 18 06:41:29 GeneralAntilles: no thanks. I'm happy with Linux Nov 18 06:43:00 I've tried Linux Nov 18 06:43:10 I like my desktop environments to work on the first try. Nov 18 06:43:23 I just don't have the time or the patience to deal with all that extra bullshit. Nov 18 06:43:40 Especially when it doesn't particularly come with any real benefit. Nov 18 06:43:44 GeneralAntilles: after a while, I can say the same about Windows Nov 18 06:44:30 Yeah, but Windows doesn't have bash. Nov 18 06:44:47 one got to be a bit careful with hardware purchases, but otherwise -- heck, even on Windows, installing an HP printer is a painful experience Nov 18 06:45:14 they have that powershell thing -- quite good from what I've seen Nov 18 06:45:59 benefit of Linux vs Mac .. depends on your use case, I'd say. Nov 18 06:46:22 but I'll grant you that for most users, if they can afford a Mac and a more closed platform, go for it Nov 18 06:46:53 It's open where it matters for me. Nov 18 06:48:01 I just wish graphics cards weren't such a pain. Nov 18 06:49:46 crap, that usb keyboard I saved turned out to be PS2, I gave the wrong one to the thrift store... Nov 18 06:49:56 Oops Nov 18 06:50:11 Can get one from same place for about $3. Nov 18 06:50:17 Will tomorrow. Nov 18 06:50:27 Or Monday. Nov 18 06:50:51 K`zan: they'll probably let you swap one for the other? Nov 18 06:50:53 Would be incredibly cool if this works. Nov 18 06:51:25 $3 I can afford even with gov bloodsucking, $130 for a BT one is going to take a while :-/. Nov 18 06:52:04 Shame the fold up one for the PalmV / IBM C3 won't work. Nov 18 06:52:21 Really nice little portable keyboard. Nov 18 06:52:22 K`zan: $130?? I bought my Stowaway for.. $70 or so Nov 18 06:52:32 the Nokia BT keyboard is rather overpriced Nov 18 06:53:42 http://www.mobileplanet.com/p.aspx?i=113674&se=550 Nov 18 06:54:01 Best price I have seen, still beyond budget for a while though :-(. Nov 18 06:55:16 K`zan: ah. I got myself the older Think Outside model. not the Sierra Nov 18 06:55:41 weird, mobileplanet only stocks the TO Sierra Nov 18 06:59:52 ah duh. mine is the TO iGo :P Nov 18 07:06:20 :-) Nov 18 07:06:47 What is the command to show memory usage, I must be getting senile - I can get it off top, but... Nov 18 07:06:56 free Nov 18 07:06:56 top Nov 18 07:07:07 Duhhh, thanks :-)! Nov 18 07:08:24 K`zan: free ? Nov 18 07:08:32 Yes, thanks. Nov 18 07:08:47 Already into swap... Nov 18 07:08:59 Mem: 126828 112476 14352 0 800 Nov 18 07:08:59 Swap: 131064 260 130804 Nov 18 07:11:16 Don't worry about it. Nov 18 07:11:20 Memory will be freed if its needed Nov 18 07:11:28 What ,me worry? Nov 18 07:11:31 :-) Nov 18 07:11:34 Ha Nov 18 07:12:25 would it be worth it to upgrade that mmc card? Nov 18 07:12:59 I don't think so, max you can reallocate is 128M Nov 18 07:13:11 SD size doesn't appear to matter. Nov 18 07:15:36 K`zan, r u talking about swap space? Nov 18 07:15:45 I think so :) Nov 18 07:15:59 you think it has some limitation? Nov 18 07:16:19 From control panel anyway, probably not at the CLI Nov 18 07:16:43 I thought the only lim is the room you gave it Nov 18 07:17:01 Still am not at a full understanding of the difference between embedd and "normal" Nov 18 07:17:09 not sure for flash Nov 18 07:17:15 128 is the max you can assign in the GUI. Nov 18 07:17:22 ah, k Nov 18 07:17:25 Under Control-Panel -> memory->virtual max is 128M Nov 18 07:17:35 You really don't need more. Nov 18 07:17:38 but it is just a button on the gui Nov 18 07:17:44 The flash is slow enough that more wouldn't help. Nov 18 07:17:45 should be 2x "ram" ?? Nov 18 07:17:58 Which should make it 256M here... Nov 18 07:18:02 Just leave it. Nov 18 07:18:15 Yes Sir! :-) Nov 18 07:18:15 k, I rarely use swap Nov 18 07:18:39 Not much into it... Nov 18 07:18:47 If there were some benefit to be had, by increasing it, somebody woulda put together a script. Nov 18 07:19:01 probably not an issue on device like this; it is on servers Nov 18 07:19:02 Oh, does anyone know if "Map" in 2008 is the same as maemo mapper? Nov 18 07:19:10 Actually, striping it between the internal and external sounds fun. Nov 18 07:19:22 It's not, K`zan. Nov 18 07:19:28 It's the Wayfinder stuff. Nov 18 07:19:42 Ah, want to look at that when it gets ported. Nov 18 07:19:57 Hang on Nov 18 07:20:09 Map seems a bit clunky, but then again those things do a lot withi 160 bogos :) Nov 18 07:21:13 Let me pull it from the logs. Nov 18 07:21:19 ?? Nov 18 07:21:26 Standing by. Nov 18 07:23:21 I put 2008 Map against a brand new Magellan. It wasn't pretty. Nov 18 07:24:08 not the same kind of device Nov 18 07:24:15 Last night I loaded m-mapper and all i can say is, wow Nov 18 07:24:49 zoran: of course, but i was putting it into perspective to what a real world audience would see Nov 18 07:25:12 Why the hell can't Colloquy dump the logs in plaintext? Nov 18 07:25:19 I think the real audience are kids with multimedia in minds Nov 18 07:26:01 I can't find the link Nov 18 07:26:04 chelli did a port Nov 18 07:26:08 but these logs are garbage. Nov 18 07:26:18 there's that but i was still speaking from the navigation crowd perspective, so i see your point Nov 18 07:26:38 mac chat client? Nov 18 07:26:44 Yeah Nov 18 07:26:49 It's good minus the shitty logging. Nov 18 07:26:56 agreed Nov 18 07:27:10 http://people.debian.org/~tschmidt/maemo/chinook/maemo-mapper/ Nov 18 07:27:15 K`zan Nov 18 07:27:44 i've been following this channel for just over a week and -- as usual -- it's easier to use the web archives to extract useable data ;) Nov 18 07:27:47 there are some plugins for colloquy Nov 18 07:27:57 do tell... Nov 18 07:28:08 GeneralAntilles: Thanks checking now. Nov 18 07:28:26 the mbp and n800 are both very new to me. so many things to learn.... Nov 18 07:29:34 I presume I want the .deb ? Nov 18 07:29:58 Yeah. Nov 18 07:30:00 Yep :-) Nov 18 07:30:03 LOL Nov 18 07:30:43 Unable to install, some app pkgs rqd are missing. Nov 18 07:31:00 Which? Nov 18 07:31:14 libgdbm3 Nov 18 07:31:14 You may have luck adding the bora repo. Nov 18 07:32:09 hah, got me too. i'm just about six days riper than K-man Nov 18 07:32:13 I can wait. Nov 18 07:32:47 nah, just add repository.maemo.org bora and all is fine Nov 18 07:33:09 'free non-free' i think? Nov 18 07:33:12 free non-free extras Nov 18 07:33:28 errr, ah, um, well... Nov 18 07:33:29 extras? i missed that Nov 18 07:33:50 Optional. Nov 18 07:33:53 But it can't hurt. Nov 18 07:34:00 thx Nov 18 07:35:49 Adding that repository does what - lets the install chase down the library out of the old release? Nov 18 07:36:08 K`zan: egg-sact-ly Nov 18 07:36:41 in other words, it makes it happy Nov 18 07:38:11 I see repository.maemo.org but no extras Nov 18 07:38:34 Add it to your application catalogs. Nov 18 07:39:18 or should I just manually add it as http://repository.maemo.org/extras Nov 18 07:39:19 just put 'free non-free' below the URL, forget extras for now Nov 18 07:39:45 or should I just manually add it as http://repository.maemo.org/non-free Nov 18 07:40:02 No Nov 18 07:40:03 repository.maemo.org/extras sounds better Nov 18 07:40:16 http://repository.maemo.org/ Nov 18 07:40:17 bore Nov 18 07:40:20 free non-free extras Nov 18 07:40:25 Trust me here. ;) Nov 18 07:40:30 k Nov 18 07:41:04 extras isn't needed,/me after re-edumacation, ol_schoola agrees with General Nov 18 07:41:35 GeneralAntilles: I've had little time in the last couple of days to keep track Nov 18 07:41:48 I've had 2 years. :D Nov 18 07:41:51 maemo site went down, right? back up again? Nov 18 07:41:56 SStrangely enough I have that repository Nov 18 07:41:57 Yeah Nov 18 07:42:09 It was down Friday-Saturday morning. Nov 18 07:42:14 US EST Nov 18 07:42:14 Not disabled, so it should have picked up the library? Nov 18 07:42:26 Likely Nov 18 07:42:29 Hit refresh. Nov 18 07:42:46 ok, is there an RSS feed that keeps track of such things like this? announcements of 07->08 portings? stuff like that? Nov 18 07:42:51 rr Nov 18 07:42:51 for me it was quick as never Nov 18 07:42:56 planet Nov 18 07:42:57 <_Monkey> planet is dead again... Nov 18 07:42:58 sorta Nov 18 07:42:59 but not really. Nov 18 07:43:14 Looks like it kept the repositories I put in under 2007 ?!? Nov 18 07:43:28 That's what backup does. Nov 18 07:43:34 Dunno why it wouldn't be finding it. Nov 18 07:43:42 Ok, refreshed, try the mm install again. Nov 18 07:43:48 Could try an apt-get install libgdm3 as root. Nov 18 07:44:01 that worked for me Nov 18 07:44:04 maemo.org is fast I cannot believe Nov 18 07:45:41 pt-get install libgdbm3 Nov 18 07:45:45 woiks :) Nov 18 07:45:50 Not to try mm again. Nov 18 07:46:51 zoran: seems that way Nov 18 07:47:12 Success! Nov 18 07:47:26 Since that worked: apt-get install kde :-) Nov 18 07:47:35 i've got a pile of pieces/parts that want to become a new mythtv master backend Nov 18 07:47:44 i can't seem to find the motivation Nov 18 07:48:13 K`zan, u have kde on now? Nov 18 07:48:26 No, I don't, just kidding :) Nov 18 07:48:33 :) Nov 18 07:48:48 Not on the N800 anyway - everything else here but the laptop has it though. Nov 18 07:50:12 hmm, how do themes work across releases? easier question: where are the good themes for 2008? Nov 18 07:50:27 None Nov 18 07:50:28 Just wait Nov 18 07:50:30 heh, the matter of taste Nov 18 07:50:35 Big UI changes for OS2008 Nov 18 07:50:43 gotchya Nov 18 07:50:44 I like Glasser, though. Nov 18 07:51:05 i thought i saw a screenshot of a 08 app with a funky theme Nov 18 07:51:21 gui stylists like strong colors, as I see Nov 18 07:51:31 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/n800.html <- Glasser Nov 18 07:51:44 i gravitate toward the mellower of themes Nov 18 07:52:00 prefer incadescent over flourescent Nov 18 07:52:01 yes, the simpler, the better Nov 18 07:52:08 Cool, I can run gpsd on the laptop and get at my GPSMAP76CS that way - kind of dumb - all I have done is add the N800 to the laptop and GPS to lug around... Nov 18 07:53:09 or ask nasa to locate your position in 3d Nov 18 07:53:21 flite runs on the N800? Wow. Nov 18 07:53:48 My sister in law retired here a few years ago, don't know anyone there anymore :(. Nov 18 07:53:56 I always forget to turn it off when I'm listening to audio books in the car. Nov 18 07:54:11 Then in blares on unimaginably loud. Nov 18 07:54:17 Scares the crap outta me. Nov 18 07:55:27 Wonder if MM also loads flite. Nov 18 07:55:41 f for finish? Nov 18 07:55:43 Didn't see it in any of the repositories I looked at. Nov 18 07:56:00 voice synth, light version Nov 18 07:57:31 with all intergration, n810 has no phone, which would be easier than gps Nov 18 07:59:00 not by a long shot Nov 18 07:59:28 gps is embedded on a chip for all practical purposes Nov 18 07:59:47 phone requires several subsystems, many on their own chips Nov 18 08:00:08 political decision anyhow Nov 18 08:00:15 nokia has an idea of what they're doing Nov 18 08:00:30 they probably know what are they doing Nov 18 08:00:44 just wish they'd give us a little better idea of their idea Nov 18 08:00:52 :) Nov 18 08:01:00 Best choice of maps for MM? What is comes with is pretty grainy and no roads either. Nov 18 08:01:29 Google sat/maps Nov 18 08:01:31 start with google, compare adainst VE, add hybrid if you have a really big card Nov 18 08:01:34 must to say that I would never need maps, till i saw them available Nov 18 08:02:24 Got two sets if repositories, cleaning it up... Nov 18 08:02:42 google sat pics always have the grass and trees looking brown and dead, ve has them very green Nov 18 08:02:46 btw, the big competitor could be asus eee pc Nov 18 08:03:01 Bull Nov 18 08:03:07 The Eee isn't pocketable. Nov 18 08:03:26 depends of pocket size Nov 18 08:03:32 Pfft Nov 18 08:03:42 The NEWTON depended on pocket size. Nov 18 08:03:49 The Asus is hardly better than a laptop. ;) Nov 18 08:03:52 i had a Newton Nov 18 08:03:57 I have two. :D Nov 18 08:04:08 There are no competitors for the NITs. Nov 18 08:04:21 ah hah! i KNEW you had some grey hairs! Nov 18 08:05:03 Ha Nov 18 08:05:07 I bought them on ebay. Nov 18 08:05:14 a most intriguing yet unuseable device Nov 18 08:05:14 gray hairs? Nov 18 08:05:32 Used mine in high school 2001-2006 ;) Nov 18 08:05:37 if you had a Newton when it first came out, odds are, you are sporting the starts of gray Nov 18 08:05:54 crap, HS was 82-86 for me Nov 18 08:05:55 * GeneralAntilles is 20. Nov 18 08:07:08 they came around in, what, 96? Nov 18 08:07:16 1991 Nov 18 08:07:20 Original Nov 18 08:07:21 <_Monkey> well, Original is fine, converted is not Nov 18 08:07:28 wow Nov 18 08:07:29 The 2000 was 1996 Nov 18 08:07:46 i'm git'in really ole.... Nov 18 08:08:01 zerojay: did you sort out the sid-support problem? Nov 18 08:11:21 talking about old hardware, I'm logged now on cray y/mp Nov 18 08:36:39 Night folks! Thanks for all. Nov 18 08:42:22 zoran: this was the starting point for my twice weekly foothills run when i lived out west Nov 18 08:42:28 http://www.ucar.edu/communications/quarterly/spring97/computing.html Nov 18 09:40:57 is there video calling on the n810? Nov 18 10:04:23 Morning, all Nov 18 10:04:44 Hi Jaffa Nov 18 10:05:53 lo keesj Nov 18 10:06:06 How's maemo.org this morning? Nov 18 10:06:50 hm. any rumours when nokia're going to actually start selling n810s? Nov 18 10:07:27 There're rumours it can be bought by phone in the US already; with some confusion over shipping dates. Nov 18 10:08:40 ah, preorder style? Nov 18 10:08:50 * Jaffa 's expectation is the middle of next week; Texrat says it's been "well-advertised" it's been delayed a week; but a) we don't know when the original date was; b) he's the only source Nov 18 10:10:55 Right, today's jobs - once showered - are to finish off the mediautils website, make mediaserv aware of both 770-encode and tablet-encode and put out v0.05 Nov 18 10:22:05 Yea, I also need to start doing something :p Nov 18 10:22:27 http://maemo.org has errors Nov 18 10:23:38 The site is slow , full or errors and a real pain when logged in. not much fun I would say Nov 18 10:24:12 just not proffesional i would say Nov 18 10:25:18 it redifines the worl wide waiting Nov 18 10:25:40 but the app catalogue is cool :p Nov 18 10:25:56 keesj: did you already vote in bug #2308? :) Nov 18 10:25:56 <_Monkey> Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 18 10:27:08 just done! Nov 18 10:31:12 and now I need to apply for a job at maemo :P Nov 18 10:36:19 keesj, you the dev for mamona? Nov 18 10:36:42 I the what? Nov 18 10:37:02 morning Nov 18 10:37:02 <_Monkey> aloha Nov 18 10:38:08 unique311: did compile mamona and install it. Nov 18 10:38:24 how is it treating you? Nov 18 10:39:21 It feels great to have a fully self compiled system running. Nov 18 10:39:26 was thing about trying out different stuff rumored to be working on the n800 while waiting on the new os to come out. Nov 18 10:39:57 k Nov 18 10:40:54 it also opens the door to using recent compilers etc. I guess what really would be great is to have the hidlon stuff into mamona/oe Nov 18 10:42:25 can you install stuff compile for os2007 Nov 18 10:43:10 I did not try that I guess not since the libs are more recent and it's not based on the same debian packages Nov 18 10:44:14 well going to give it a try. Nov 18 10:44:42 just hope i don't screw up my n800 before the os2008 comes out. Nov 18 10:45:41 it did not replace the kernel, but I had a dual boot setup that was messed up :( Nov 18 10:47:18 i want to give angstrom a go Nov 18 10:48:16 unique311: yea. idem here. Nov 18 10:48:31 idem? Nov 18 10:49:06 but mamona is also oe based so it was a good start. I also am trying to run angstrom on a 2430osk board as we speak Nov 18 10:49:07 <_Monkey> okay, keesj. Nov 18 10:49:13 idem dito = the same here Nov 18 10:49:19 koen, need documentation on how to install Nov 18 10:49:21 k Nov 18 10:49:44 http://embedded-system.net/mistral-releases-2430-osk-omap2430-starter-kit-and-the-linux-bsp.html Nov 18 10:51:00 hefty price tag on that thing. Nov 18 10:51:32 does Ian Lawrence happen to be in this channel? Nov 18 10:52:26 yes. it's not mine :p Nov 18 10:53:11 Hi, anyone know if the opensuse build system has support for maemo? Nov 18 10:55:40 I am sort of toying with either using bitbake or obs to build packages... but I tend to do more desktop/server packaging so obs might be a better bit Nov 18 10:57:16 is ther any build system with support for maemo? Nov 18 10:58:25 unique311: do you want to try microb on mamona? Nov 18 10:58:28 OE has conf/distro/maemo-1.0.conf but I've not looked into it yet Nov 18 10:58:42 its not installed yet Nov 18 10:58:49 but i'll take a link. Nov 18 10:58:54 i'm also in #mamona Nov 18 10:59:00 you need to ask koen about it there are also n800 an 770 definitions Nov 18 10:59:13 give me the link there Nov 18 10:59:21 why is maemos glib compiled without thread support? Nov 18 11:01:01 rafl: ? Nov 18 11:01:38 g_thread_supported returns FALSE Nov 18 11:01:52 it doesn't mean what you think it means Nov 18 11:02:00 so what does it mean? Nov 18 11:02:15 http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-Threads.html#g-thread-supported Nov 18 11:02:37 see g_thread_init above Nov 18 11:02:45 whops Nov 18 11:03:10 it really should be named g_thread_initialized or something Nov 18 11:03:16 then I wonder why an applikation using g_thread_init fails to compile due to linking errors Nov 18 11:05:07 i.e. int main (...) { g_thread_init (NULL); return 0; } Nov 18 11:05:17 other glib functions seem to work well though Nov 18 11:06:06 you're not linking with gthread? Nov 18 11:07:04 use the output of pkg-config --libs gthread-2.0 to link... Nov 18 11:07:28 oh noes Nov 18 11:07:30 thanks Nov 18 11:17:53 I wonder why dpkg-deb --control could fail on the device while it works well with the same package within the sdk as well as with a normal debian system Nov 18 11:18:25 "unexpected end of file in version number in $package" is what it says. Nov 18 11:39:16 hooray! liferea on maemo 4 :-) Nov 18 11:42:08 _monk forget but manona Nov 18 11:42:29 _monkey forget but manona Nov 18 11:42:29 <_Monkey> timelyx, I didn't have anything matching but manona Nov 18 11:42:34 _monkey forget manona Nov 18 11:42:34 <_Monkey> timelyx, I didn't have anything matching manona Nov 18 11:43:01 _monkey forget but mamona Nov 18 11:43:01 <_Monkey> timelyx, I didn't have anything matching but mamona Nov 18 11:43:08 _monkey forget mamona Nov 18 11:43:09 <_Monkey> timelyx: I forgot mamona Nov 18 11:44:17 mamona? Nov 18 11:44:32 well, it won't be anything now :) Nov 18 11:44:50 * timelyx should have asked _Monkey what it was first.. Nov 18 11:45:00 i just flashed it...aside from looking good... Nov 18 11:45:04 can do anything with it. Nov 18 11:45:08 heh Nov 18 11:45:12 but its running. Nov 18 11:45:19 animated wallpaper and all Nov 18 11:45:25 i thought that the goal of oss was to look pretty and do pretty much nothing Nov 18 11:45:32 does it burn battery nicely? Nov 18 11:45:49 its still aalive on battery Nov 18 11:45:53 i'll let you know Nov 18 11:46:04 don't have it plugged in. Nov 18 11:48:13 I wonder what I fucked up in order for all things to look like normal gtk instead of the way I'm used to from maemo Nov 18 11:52:36 rafl: Are you using run-standalone.sh? Nov 18 11:53:36 I'm using whatever maemo uses on this device to run things Nov 18 11:54:23 also some applications still look like they used to Nov 18 11:54:30 but the browser, for example, doesn't Nov 18 12:03:48 Oh, I thought you were developing rather than just using. Nov 18 12:52:02 hola Nov 18 13:05:41 bye Nov 18 13:06:48 yo Nov 18 13:08:22 Yope Nov 18 14:20:23 morning all Nov 18 14:21:24 ciao Nov 18 14:38:50 hey, is there glade support for python on the device? Nov 18 14:39:00 As far as I know .. Yes. Nov 18 14:39:10 ahh... good. Nov 18 14:39:44 can't find it mentioned in the components: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation.html#components Nov 18 14:44:27 konttori, it's part of pygtk Nov 18 14:44:36 ahh... good. thanks! Nov 18 14:44:50 this is actually great news. Nov 18 14:45:19 I decided to waste some time making pysqlitegui to work properly on the device and extend its functionalities a bit Nov 18 14:45:38 I was fearing that I'd have to re-write the GUI to use gtk directly instead of through glade Nov 18 14:45:52 saves a lot of time. Nov 18 14:48:30 Comments welcome on the finished site for tablet-encode/mediaserv: http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/index.php Nov 18 14:49:45 nice Nov 18 14:52:06 Jaffa: s/playback/play back/ Nov 18 14:52:09 (v) Nov 18 14:52:16 Jaffa: I would try to make more clear that is a web-application / pc component Nov 18 14:52:45 it's not because it's called mediaserver that it does not run on the maemo platform Nov 18 14:52:58 funny video Nov 18 14:54:39 keesj: good point Nov 18 14:54:44 timelyx: fair enough Nov 18 14:55:50 just about the software , I guess that nokia has included some sort for mime type to add rss video feeds to the media-server Nov 18 14:55:51 Jaffa: you're missing from backchannel Nov 18 15:10:06 hello Nov 18 15:11:04 can someone please tell me, how to lunch a console on the nokia n800? Nov 18 15:11:22 from menu on the left side of the screen Nov 18 15:11:28 if you installed it Nov 18 15:11:32 you need to install osso-xterm Nov 18 15:12:07 the same way you launch anything else you've installed? :) some installation required :) Nov 18 15:12:30 install it from here http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/osso-xterm-advanced Nov 18 15:12:30 He's probably not installed it .. Nov 18 15:12:59 kk i see, going to install it, thx Nov 18 15:13:31 02:18 alterego Nice my loader killed hildon-desktop! Nov 18 15:13:31 02:19 alterego That probably should[n't] be allowed to happen :/ Nov 18 15:13:49 alterego: if you write a kernel module, should it be allowed to cause a kernel panic? Nov 18 15:14:22 No, I don't think that should be allowed to happen either. Nov 18 15:14:26 desktop plugins are to hildon-desktop what kernel modules are to kernels Nov 18 15:14:49 i wonder if linus would say you shouldn't be allowed to write kernel modules :) Nov 18 15:15:00 So you think it's okay that anyone can write a plugin that crashes the whole desktop? Nov 18 15:15:04 (he might not, i dunno) Nov 18 15:15:19 i think most people who do write plugins do write plugins that crash the desktop Nov 18 15:15:23 i've used quite a few of them Nov 18 15:15:28 Heh Nov 18 15:15:33 i've also gotten them to improve the behavior wrt that Nov 18 15:15:37 (really) Nov 18 15:16:09 the benefit of using a loaded scripting language is that the loader designer can work to prevent that in many, most, or all cases Nov 18 15:17:07 do i have to set a root pw to make su? Nov 18 15:17:23 no Nov 18 15:17:29 the root password is well known Nov 18 15:17:34 you might consider changing it Nov 18 15:17:40 It's your mothers' maiden name. Nov 18 15:19:17 sudoers file is the one that man should read first, not to be suprised all the time Nov 18 15:20:33 where is this file? Nov 18 15:20:40 heh, in /etc Nov 18 15:20:42 man sudoers ? Nov 18 15:20:57 oddly, linux is supposed to have documentation, even for files Nov 18 15:21:02 although, don't try this on a device Nov 18 15:21:29 that file took 10 years of my life when I got the device Nov 18 15:21:36 i tried man, but is not installed Nov 18 15:21:43 google for it Nov 18 15:21:50 kk Nov 18 15:22:28 sys_n800: do you want to use sudo or just get root access? Nov 18 15:22:33 someone encountered unicos? I need manual for it Nov 18 15:23:19 how do I turn off the display on n800? Nov 18 15:23:33 kulve: acpi/dsme Nov 18 15:24:03 timelyx: was that a hint, a guess or what? Nov 18 15:24:15 i want to edit sources.list.... and thouht setting a root pw would be nice Nov 18 15:24:28 kulve: been there, read that Nov 18 15:24:38 via ssh should be the easiest way Nov 18 15:24:43 sys_n800: install ssh, login through ssh as root, change the passwd, edit the file Nov 18 15:24:48 sys_n800: wrong Nov 18 15:24:52 application manager will edit sources.list Nov 18 15:24:55 timelyx: well, that's nice. Doesn't really help me. Nov 18 15:25:04 kulve: those are the answers Nov 18 15:25:08 acpi is quite public Nov 18 15:25:13 although dsme will trump it Nov 18 15:25:17 so you'll want to appease dsme Nov 18 15:25:21 does it show something on sysctl -a ? Nov 18 15:25:36 kulve; ok and whats the root pw? Nov 18 15:25:45 sys_n800: rootme Nov 18 15:25:45 <_Monkey> rootme is the default pw? Nov 18 15:26:07 zoran: nope (at least no display or screen words when I grepped it) Nov 18 15:26:27 Hmm, why do I get the feeling that although the planet's up - it's not updating? Nov 18 15:26:53 Jaffa, it's actually regressed :/ Nov 18 15:29:02 kulve; rootme doesnt work Nov 18 15:29:13 kulve, on bsd there is the way to see all acpi variables; I think linux writes it to separate files Nov 18 15:29:31 alterego: gah, then posting http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2007/11/18/mediaserv_tablet_encode_mediautils cos I thought it was quiet was a bad idea. Nov 18 15:29:40 sys_n800, you need to be in R&D mode. Nov 18 15:29:47 alterego: why? Nov 18 15:29:55 how? Nov 18 15:29:56 To become root. Nov 18 15:30:06 alterego it's not necessary Nov 18 15:30:10 Really? Nov 18 15:30:10 or change gainroot by the hand Nov 18 15:30:11 <_Monkey> zoran: that doesn't look right Nov 18 15:30:13 sys_n800: if you are logging with ssh, the rootme should work and there's no need for r&d mode Nov 18 15:30:17 I was missinformed then ;) Nov 18 15:30:30 Oh, I thought you were talking about su Nov 18 15:30:35 if you install ssh then you can login as root.. to use 'sudo gainroot' you need to be in RD mode Nov 18 15:30:54 kulve; i need to enter a sudo pw to start the sshd! Nov 18 15:31:05 the point in gainroot is that it could be changed Nov 18 15:31:06 sys_n800: what..? Nov 18 15:31:22 sys_n800: use application manager to install the openssh. It will start it automatically Nov 18 15:31:43 ahh Nov 18 15:31:52 kk i ll try Nov 18 15:32:07 or 1-click install from here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/openssh Nov 18 15:32:31 i did that Nov 18 15:32:41 then sshd should be running Nov 18 15:33:09 kk Nov 18 15:33:51 then you should be able to ssh root@localhost from the xterm Nov 18 15:35:02 or from your desktop, if you have a proper network access to your n800. It's much easier to use a real keyboard :) Nov 18 15:35:42 thought so too, heh Nov 18 15:36:19 you have to find ip address of the device firts Nov 18 15:36:45 Not if you're connecting from the device .. Nov 18 15:36:55 ssh root@localhost just like kaltsi said .. Nov 18 15:37:13 he was talking about remote access Nov 18 15:37:24 ok, a real keyboard here :) Nov 18 15:37:25 thc Nov 18 15:37:26 thxc Nov 18 15:37:43 i connected via ssh and changed the pw; i've WifiInfo installed :) Nov 18 15:37:44 You'll want to check out the network manager to get the IP address then. Nov 18 15:37:53 Ah, cool. Nov 18 15:38:17 everything a bit new :) Nov 18 15:38:26 and disable remote root connection then Nov 18 15:38:32 yeah, the IP can be get from the connection manager's menu Nov 18 15:38:36 alterego: fwiw, from what i can tell the reason plugins are plugins instead of processes is that on the 770 there weren't enough resources to load a bunch of apps w/ the same stupid libs half a dozen times Nov 18 15:38:39 kk Nov 18 15:38:44 so they decided to risk cooperative plugins Nov 18 15:38:50 and expected plugin devs not to suck Nov 18 15:39:09 :) Nov 18 15:39:15 how else can i log in, if i disabled sshd root login? Nov 18 15:39:27 you wouldn't? Nov 18 15:39:28 user firts Nov 18 15:39:30 Well, I don't really mind having to restart hildon everytime I run my loader :./ Nov 18 15:39:30 good for you? Nov 18 15:39:44 don't ask me why anyone would trust devs not to suck Nov 18 15:39:52 Yeah Nov 18 15:39:55 * timelyx thinks that's one of the dumbest assumptions out there Nov 18 15:40:23 but anyway, they cut a corner, and overall, it works Nov 18 15:40:29 zoran: what users? i don't see any other user in /etc/passwd Nov 18 15:40:33 as long as it bites the dev before he delivers Nov 18 15:40:38 instead of the customer after the dev delivers Nov 18 15:40:41 it's all good Nov 18 15:40:44 sys, you are "user" user Nov 18 15:40:48 dev fixes, delivery ok, ... happy user Nov 18 15:41:07 unfortunately, i was a user, and i got a bunch of those plugins, after delivery Nov 18 15:41:15 so i should first do a passwd user before diconnecting and disabling root:D Nov 18 15:41:20 but anyway, i already complained and made them improve things :) Nov 18 15:41:57 sys, see manual for openssh first; it is a good manner to login first as user, then su/sudo to root Nov 18 15:42:28 zoran: yes yes, but that's not what i meant... i am going to do that anyway... you're right Nov 18 15:42:53 so chicago is still the only place to buy a N810 eh Nov 18 15:43:11 cannot recall the exact name of conf file for ssh, but there is an option to disable root login from ssh Nov 18 15:43:20 hi all Nov 18 15:43:39 sys, for sshd Nov 18 15:43:48 zoran: /etc/ssh/sshd --> PermitRootLogin No Nov 18 15:43:57 correct Nov 18 15:44:13 you login as user, then su to root Nov 18 15:44:23 or sudo gainroot Nov 18 15:44:28 but login via ssh as user and the su means: applet require root privilegdes Nov 18 15:44:50 sys, change gainroot first, of course, not to be cut off of the device Nov 18 15:45:33 there is an MODE option, which should read "MODE=enabled #" Nov 18 15:45:50 zoran: just saw that. but i have to leave for a couple of minutes. Nov 18 15:45:52 find doc about it _first_ Nov 18 15:45:59 ill be back later and do this :) Nov 18 15:46:03 :) Nov 18 15:50:07 why Planet Maemo is not updated in these days? Nov 18 15:50:20 did anyone file a bug? Nov 18 15:50:31 but i'm sure the fact that it's a weekend doesn't help matters Nov 18 15:51:02 bug #2308 is about maemo.org being broken too often Nov 18 15:51:04 <_Monkey> Bug 2308 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2308 Nov 18 15:51:19 vote there, if you agree Nov 18 15:51:24 garage has plenty of space on it atm Nov 18 15:51:38 and claims to have been up for 12 days Nov 18 15:53:21 heh, someone tried to visit /projcts Nov 18 15:55:40 one of the other servers has ~4g free Nov 18 15:55:48 which could be a problem, in a few years, i suppose Nov 18 15:56:13 it's been up for >150 days (which isn't bad, although my box at work has been up for >200) Nov 18 15:56:42 i need to consider whether i want to switch to xen Nov 18 15:56:53 of course, w/ xen, uptime is kinda an odd thing to calculate Nov 18 15:57:06 my zones currently have uptimes of about 1 day, vs. 200days for the host Nov 18 15:57:19 timelyx: who manage the maemo.org server? Nov 18 15:57:31 ferenc Nov 18 15:57:41 (one person) Nov 18 15:57:45 ok Nov 18 15:57:59 if i thought something was critical, i'd give him a call Nov 18 15:58:01 i've done so in the past Nov 18 15:58:13 you guys haven't justified me ruining his weekend Nov 18 15:58:42 no, don't worry, don't disturb him :) Nov 18 16:01:12 note that technically bugging him is done via the web ui Nov 18 16:02:45 anyone got gtalk working with itos2008? Nov 18 16:02:48 timelyx: So one can complain that the website doesn't work through the website? I think I can see why fixing it takes some time... ;) Nov 18 16:05:45 zuh: *shrug* wfm Nov 18 16:05:50 zuh: :D Nov 18 16:06:02 at mozilla.org, when bugzilla is down, nagios sends out pages Nov 18 16:06:25 for anything else, bugzilla receives reports, and nagios will send out pages if the reports aren't handled in a timely manner Nov 18 16:06:47 (actually, nagios will probably page people for hundreds of things, those are only 2) Nov 18 16:07:10 anyway.,... I'm worried about applications for Os2008... Nov 18 16:07:26 actually we have only 20 apps for os2008, while Os2007 has near 200 Nov 18 16:07:28 why? Nov 18 16:07:37 the SDK was released lot of days ago Nov 18 16:07:45 the n810 has been around for a few weeks tops Nov 18 16:07:49 and only few people have ported their apps to os2008 :( Nov 18 16:07:53 the n800 has been around for what, 10 months? Nov 18 16:08:11 Andy80: those apps will be ported..i'm not worried :) Nov 18 16:08:17 you can't release an app, if it compiles in SDK. You have to test it Nov 18 16:08:31 and you can't test it, if you don't have the device Nov 18 16:08:34 kulve: ehm... same problem here :) Nov 18 16:08:53 lets hope the N9x0 will have 2x or 4x the space on root filesystem Nov 18 16:08:54 I just ported SPIM to Chinook, but I cannot test it yet Nov 18 16:08:55 yeah, that's the reason there is no apps for n810 yet :) Nov 18 16:09:04 itos2008 looks very promising Nov 18 16:09:12 Andy80: It was the same with 2005&2006 and 2006&2007 too... Nov 18 16:09:13 pupnik: you do realize that the naming convention at nokia isn't remotely close to sane, right? Nov 18 16:09:14 pupnik: why? Nov 18 16:09:41 because many games take up 5-20 megs and one about 200 megs for data Nov 18 16:09:56 pupnik: you could put data on the SD card Nov 18 16:10:01 kulve: last i checked, apt wasn't friendly to installing apps outside of the standard unix paths Nov 18 16:10:13 depends where installer puts it Nov 18 16:10:13 Andy80: fwiw, that's actually a losing proposition Nov 18 16:10:19 i just played w/ an n81-8g Nov 18 16:10:28 and believe me, you're *very* unhappy when you plug it in via usb Nov 18 16:10:33 either your apps go haywire Nov 18 16:10:47 or your system refuses to export usb until you guess which apps are using the device Nov 18 16:10:51 good luck Nov 18 16:10:58 * konttori loves n81 (with picodrive) Nov 18 16:11:01 timelyx: that's true... Nov 18 16:11:05 i could make an install script in the deb package to symlink /usr/local/share to a dir on mmc Nov 18 16:11:11 konttori: my n81 8gb is full Nov 18 16:11:18 podcaster refuses to download more stuff Nov 18 16:11:22 it's complaining i'm out of space Nov 18 16:11:25 :) Nov 18 16:11:31 N81? lucky you :) I still have my N73 ;) Nov 18 16:11:37 yeah, well, 8 gigs is still quite good starting point Nov 18 16:11:43 Andy80: all actions are logged Nov 18 16:11:51 konttori: i filled it up in what, 3 days? Nov 18 16:12:05 i don't think there's any reasonable way to unfill or manage it Nov 18 16:12:06 otoh n810 and the 2 gb would also be pretty good if we had it in ext fs. Nov 18 16:12:10 timelyx: why? I mean,.. why they're logged? Nov 18 16:12:23 I filled it immediately (although upload took about 3 hours via usb Nov 18 16:12:26 Andy80: anyone here mentioning this toy is participating in a study Nov 18 16:12:33 anyway, I have now 1 gb of free space Nov 18 16:12:36 we promise to have our actions logged Nov 18 16:12:41 konttori: i have <1/2gb free Nov 18 16:12:51 and whatever the number is, it's small enough that podcaster won't download Nov 18 16:12:52 plenty of room for picodrive ;) Nov 18 16:12:55 agree konttori - at least the developer can assume the 2GB will not be removed on N810 - i believe it is mmc2? Nov 18 16:12:59 timelyx: ahhh ok ok... something like "debug" version :) Nov 18 16:13:03 I wonder if the keylogger works when you run out of space =) Nov 18 16:13:04 yeah. Nov 18 16:13:07 Andy80: not really Nov 18 16:13:13 pupnik: no Nov 18 16:13:21 mmc1? Nov 18 16:13:21 <_Monkey> rumour has it mmc1 is accessible Nov 18 16:13:25 usb works the same way on the n810 as it does on the n81 Nov 18 16:13:28 and you cal always require the internal (mmc2) to be present. (or fall back to mmc1 if it isn't) Nov 18 16:13:31 you attach it, and the mmcs go away Nov 18 16:13:45 if you have open files when this happens Nov 18 16:13:49 bad things will probably happen Nov 18 16:13:49 internal is mmc2, external mmc1 Nov 18 16:14:13 well, it won't mount mmc to usb if it's in use Nov 18 16:14:14 browser team is currently trying to determine just how bad Nov 18 16:14:17 anyway, 2 gb on mmc2 is a lot of space :) Nov 18 16:14:26 konttori: define in use? Nov 18 16:14:30 so, bad things won't happen, it just won't mount to your desktop Nov 18 16:14:46 as in it has read / write locks to any files on the mmc Nov 18 16:14:53 as in any application has such locks Nov 18 16:14:56 if it's between locks... Nov 18 16:15:10 due to the circumstances mentioned by timelyx (+ some others, mainly that you have to use FAT), I have become to the conclusion that mass storage mode for USB must die Nov 18 16:15:12 uhm.... no... wait..... if mmc2 is not accessible... how can I transfer files to it from my desktop? Nov 18 16:15:15 or has already asserted the file system exists but hasn't locked yet Nov 18 16:15:27 anyway, big game data can't sensibly be put into a .deb anyway, as it needs to be downloaded first to the apt cache Nov 18 16:15:40 true Nov 18 16:15:41 suihkulokki: the right solution is probably a proxy Nov 18 16:15:51 anyway, is it fat formatted? Nov 18 16:15:52 which doesn't provide raw access if the system is in some mode Nov 18 16:15:57 anyone know the default device lock code on the n810 firmware? Nov 18 16:15:58 but instead offers emulated access Nov 18 16:16:03 the perf would be much worse Nov 18 16:16:07 but at least you could share Nov 18 16:16:07 12345 Nov 18 16:16:11 think Nov 18 16:16:13 yes Nov 18 16:16:16 but it's in the manual Nov 18 16:16:20 why didn't you read it? Nov 18 16:16:22 bad boy Nov 18 16:16:31 no. 12345 doesn't work Nov 18 16:16:43 12345 is the default lock code Nov 18 16:16:52 timelyx: yeah, emulated fat would be an ideal solution Nov 18 16:16:56 even on the leaked n810 firmware? Nov 18 16:17:03 for mounting through usb Nov 18 16:17:11 trevarthan: oh, you don't have the manual because you stole the firmware? Nov 18 16:17:13 try 1234 and 0000 Nov 18 16:17:20 i think i left my n810 manual at work :) Nov 18 16:17:33 nope Nov 18 16:17:40 or mrroring to nas and rotating in appropriate way Nov 18 16:17:54 00000? Nov 18 16:18:13 n810 manual is available on Nokia website already... Nov 18 16:18:14 if you had restored setting from n800, perhaps you had set your own lock code on n800 Nov 18 16:18:27 konttori: even emulated fat is risky.. the mounting OS does not expect FAT sectors to get modified Nov 18 16:18:34 I didn't restore anything Nov 18 16:18:35 yeah, flashing won't change the lock (minor bugs noted) Nov 18 16:18:41 ah Nov 18 16:19:01 yup. I had one set. cool. thanks. Nov 18 16:19:09 suihkulokki: then there's always samba ;) Nov 18 16:19:10 suihkulokki: you could probably cheat Nov 18 16:19:13 not sure how well it'd work Nov 18 16:19:13 why in inner card formatted in fat? Nov 18 16:19:22 so it'll mount anywhere Nov 18 16:19:32 (win, mac, lin, sol, ...) Nov 18 16:19:41 konttori: amusingly that is what motorola linux phones do =) Nov 18 16:19:42 as mentioned above, it's usb mass storage Nov 18 16:19:46 Or webdav / sftp and requirement to use pcsuite to access it ;) Nov 18 16:20:01 * timelyx curses Nov 18 16:20:05 how dare you mention pcsuite? Nov 18 16:20:06 lock code dialog is much easier to use in chinook. Looks like I'll actually get to lock my device now. Nov 18 16:20:17 well, some nokia provided application Nov 18 16:20:23 * timelyx curses Nov 18 16:20:25 timelyx: is the inner card available (mounted) on your desktop when you plug in the usb cable? Nov 18 16:20:25 pcsuite just came to my mind as an example Nov 18 16:20:43 something like MTP and fuse thing to mount it on linux would work great Nov 18 16:20:44 Andy80: i'm fairly certain it did the last time i tried Nov 18 16:20:47 that could of course be used to transfer safely files Nov 18 16:20:49 ;) Nov 18 16:20:55 timelyx: thanks :) Nov 18 16:21:02 konttori: "be used" and "safely"? Nov 18 16:21:02 windows supports mtp too so it's almost as easy as mass storage Nov 18 16:21:03 ... Nov 18 16:21:11 what's mtp? Nov 18 16:21:23 media transfer protocol Nov 18 16:21:24 konttori: timelyx: BTW, I got subversion installed. All I had to do was add the repo in /etc/apt/sources.lst or whatever and then I could install it from the appmngr Nov 18 16:21:29 Andy80: please don't take my word for that one Nov 18 16:21:53 suihkulokki: file a request? Nov 18 16:21:55 kontori: BTW, I really like the new horizontal scrolling mechanism in UKMP. Very nice. Nov 18 16:22:00 that seems more than reasonable Nov 18 16:22:06 I like the new theme a lot too. Nov 18 16:22:10 (not necessarily exclusive, but certainly available) Nov 18 16:22:17 trevarthan: plankton's better Nov 18 16:22:27 * timelyx is still hungry Nov 18 16:22:32 timelyx: it's just to understant if the inner card is available ONLY for internal use (by system apps ecc...) or if, for example, I can transfer mp3, avi ecc... to it. that's all :) Nov 18 16:22:35 timelyx: I'm talking about UKMP, not the OS. Nov 18 16:22:49 trevarthan: thanks Nov 18 16:23:26 trevarthan: did you notice that it's now doing the reflection on the fly. Nov 18 16:23:29 what stops date to traffic to inner card? Nov 18 16:23:33 Instead of on load time. Nov 18 16:23:33 *data Nov 18 16:23:58 no. I haven't looked at the code. We're doing that in Kagu too though. We don't cache reflections anymore. Nov 18 16:24:13 When I realized that, I started thingking that by a different kind of layout that could be used for some really nice effects. Nov 18 16:24:31 so you calculate reflections for every frame as well? Nov 18 16:24:53 yeah. typically we only have one image on screen at a time, so it's no big deal. Nov 18 16:25:22 hey, are you using the media database now from the media framework? Nov 18 16:25:26 the sqlite db Nov 18 16:25:42 mmm... no. we're still using our own sqlite db. Nov 18 16:25:52 what's the media framework? Nov 18 16:26:08 ahh,.. there is a pre-made db in ~/.data or something. Nov 18 16:26:34 The chances that it has everything we need are pretty slim I bet. Nov 18 16:26:37 well, the devices own media player has the harvester process that harvests id3 information for all meadia files automatically. Nov 18 16:26:42 true Nov 18 16:26:42 We're always adding indexes and stuff. Nov 18 16:27:02 I'll check it out though. Nov 18 16:27:06 funnily enough, that db doesn't have any indexes (might explain a little why the medai playr is a bit slow) Nov 18 16:27:47 arg. where the hell did I get that sqlite3 command from now? rrrrr... Nov 18 16:28:03 I hate having to hunt down all my programs after a firmware change. Nov 18 16:30:00 anyone remember the name of an applet which sit in the taskbar, shows CPU activity and let you kill CPU hoggers? Nov 18 16:30:46 osso-statusbar-cpu? cpu-load-applet? Nov 18 16:31:17 someone needs to port those to chinook Nov 18 16:31:41 Someone . Nov 18 16:31:56 what sqlite3 command do you mean? Nov 18 16:31:58 we need to hire that Someone Nov 18 16:32:07 maybe Someone should first sell device able to run Chinook. Or provide Chinook for the old devices.. Nov 18 16:32:20 load applet can be found from garage. Nov 18 16:32:23 I'd do it if you paid me :) Nov 18 16:32:25 it works on chinook Nov 18 16:32:36 and it's done by Jakub Pavelek and he's already hired by Nokia Nov 18 16:32:44 Hahah Nov 18 16:33:16 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/ Nov 18 16:33:23 is maemo-mapper available for chinook? Nov 18 16:33:27 https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2065/load-applet_0.8.0-1_armel.deb Nov 18 16:33:30 yeah, it is Nov 18 16:33:41 konttori: there's an sqlite3 binary floating around somewhere for sqlite3 cli access on the device Nov 18 16:34:10 ahh... I don't know. I'm just porting pysqlitegui for the device. Nov 18 16:34:23 should be an even nicer way to test stuff. Nov 18 16:34:43 it already works, just needs hildonization and stuff. Nov 18 16:35:47 ah. missing wget. crap Nov 18 16:40:14 WOO! Nov 18 16:40:21 Ruby applets d00d! Nov 18 16:40:43 :D Nov 18 16:40:58 It's taken a week but they work ^_^ Nov 18 16:41:15 Well, probably about 30 hours. Nov 18 16:41:28 Actually, more like 10. Nov 18 16:41:42 * alterego is quite lazy. Nov 18 16:42:09 * alterego makes implementation more "solid" .. Nov 18 16:42:44 damn pingus theme song... get out of my brain! Nov 18 16:44:49 pupnik: watch this to get rid of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNDh_tFIHn4 Nov 18 16:47:36 ahh... pysqlitegui is quite slow when using it on the device. Nov 18 16:47:48 probably the glade + gtk combination is slowing it down Nov 18 16:48:46 konttori: is that the same as this? https://garage.maemo.org/projects/sqlite3sg/ Nov 18 16:49:11 nope. Nov 18 16:49:15 is that a good one? Nov 18 16:49:23 I haven't tested that. Nov 18 16:50:01 Have to test it before wasting time on something that has been done already Nov 18 16:50:08 thanks for the tip Nov 18 16:50:45 never used it. I like the CLI, personally. Nov 18 17:01:26 I am wanting to take a poll in here, I think Maemo Mapper is the best GPS software for linux period!, I am trying to find another program for Linux but can not find anything even close to maemo mapper, I used to use gpsdrive,but its crap compared to MM. I want to con Gnuite into creating another version for laptops. Any other progs I am not thinking of Nov 18 17:02:56 maemo mapper is pretty cool. Nov 18 17:03:14 It really is Nov 18 17:05:17 it really depends on what you want Nov 18 17:05:35 xastir has some features to recommend it, though it's quite arcane and somewhat primitive Nov 18 17:05:41 but it *does* understand shapefiles Nov 18 17:06:38 by the way, the pymapper (the python copy ) is pretty good as well. Not nearly as good as maemo mapper, but pretty goon nevertheless Nov 18 17:06:53 might be a good startingpoint for a multiplatform project Nov 18 17:07:24 gnuite has done really good job with maemo mapper in any case Nov 18 17:10:53 I want a good program to run under KDE, and maemo mapper works OK, but its not designed for that type of window manager Nov 18 17:11:40 Absolutely, that why I think Gnuite should port a laptop aimed version, it would be a huge success Nov 18 17:12:02 how about google earth Nov 18 17:12:03 <_Monkey> google earth is a closed-source, winelib-based program, right? So I'd guess no. Nov 18 17:12:22 shut up, _Monkey Nov 18 17:12:23 <_Monkey> elb: what? Nov 18 17:12:54 kaltsi: Google Earth really solves a different problem Nov 18 17:13:18 and it doesn't run offline Nov 18 17:13:32 good point Nov 18 17:17:33 evenink Nov 18 17:19:03 Aloha czr Nov 18 17:19:16 hey alterego. how is it goin? Nov 18 17:19:28 * czr keeps the window open just in case Nov 18 17:19:32 Not bad. I've made quite a bit of progress on the plugin front ;) Nov 18 17:19:43 great, did you find out what the problem was? Nov 18 17:19:46 It loads and executes ruby scripts fine now Nov 18 17:19:48 or there were several? :-) Nov 18 17:19:58 I rewrote things and it started to work. Nov 18 17:20:20 ah, the old "rewrite everything until it works"-trick? :-) Nov 18 17:20:36 Yes, this version is a lot nicer. Gives me cool error messages. Nov 18 17:20:49 * czr pats alterego on the back Nov 18 17:20:58 I have a massive headache Nov 18 17:21:08 Unforunately I'm having another problem now. Suprise :) Nov 18 17:21:25 heh. time for another rewrite? :-) Nov 18 17:21:35 Neah Nov 18 17:21:41 Not the whole thing anyway ^_^ Nov 18 17:22:06 I'm getting this wonderful error: 'can't convert false to string' Nov 18 17:22:09 I think I'm going to try to follow my step by step on ARM side Nov 18 17:22:11 It's coming from ruby Nov 18 17:22:20 heh. sounds promising :-) Nov 18 17:22:26 maybe a NULL pointer? Nov 18 17:22:29 that sounds like a ruby problem Nov 18 17:22:37 false.to_s should return "false" Nov 18 17:22:39 It is a ruby problem :P Nov 18 17:22:55 My problem is, where is this problem occuring. Nov 18 17:23:11 ah, don't you just wish you'd have arbitrary backtracing capability Nov 18 17:23:28 i.e., see an error message, and then just backtrack from there until you see what the problem is. post-mortem Nov 18 17:23:30 hi, where are the doc for installing software on 770? Nov 18 17:23:33 docs Nov 18 17:23:49 czr, the undodb (replacing gdb) does exactly that Nov 18 17:24:10 c0ffee, hmm. it requires a core to work with? Nov 18 17:24:25 well, it's like gdb Nov 18 17:24:38 actually it has the same ui, so you can use it with ddd and others Nov 18 17:24:39 ok. so either a core or pre-emptive breakpoints and thingies Nov 18 17:24:44 link? Nov 18 17:25:11 unhttp://undo-software.com/ Nov 18 17:25:16 I'm not a great fan of gdb though, but still Nov 18 17:25:19 hah Nov 18 17:25:19 without the leading un actually :) Nov 18 17:25:28 it does fit though :-) Nov 18 17:25:44 it's closed source stuff thou Nov 18 17:25:49 so it seems Nov 18 17:25:55 however, for opensource and/or research stuff, you get a free license Nov 18 17:26:05 "Horrible bugs such as race conditions and memory corruption that previously took weeks to find can now be found in minutes." Nov 18 17:26:06 gdb is very powerful Nov 18 17:26:11 I wonder how they manage to do that.. Nov 18 17:26:19 well Nov 18 17:26:26 most race conditions I run into are bad design mistakes/assumptions. Nov 18 17:26:32 i have a program for example that manipulates a few gigabytes of memory Nov 18 17:26:34 there are many tools for embedded systems which allow rollback and rewind Nov 18 17:26:42 and now after days of processing it suddendly dies Nov 18 17:26:55 finding a minimal test case that i can actually forward debug takes weeks Nov 18 17:26:55 Gutted :P Nov 18 17:27:01 counds fun c0ffee. undb helped that? Nov 18 17:27:05 sounds even Nov 18 17:27:14 if i can just step back a few steps and see what actually did cause the bug, it's pretty easy Nov 18 17:27:28 the bug caused termination? Nov 18 17:27:40 a segfault Nov 18 17:27:40 <_Monkey> a segfault is, like, from trying to get listings Nov 18 17:27:46 by the way, google earth runs offline. (someone was commenting that earlier) Nov 18 17:27:49 and the backtrace didn't point to the cause of the bug Nov 18 17:27:53 right Nov 18 17:27:59 it's like function a corrupts the data Nov 18 17:28:01 but terminates Nov 18 17:28:04 and function b dies Nov 18 17:28:06 actually I remember seeing something similar for some DOS debugger, ages ago Nov 18 17:28:17 anyway, food & Nov 18 17:28:21 maybe it's something stack-related Nov 18 17:28:28 stack-corrupting bugs are always fun Nov 18 17:29:07 anyhow, looks interesting. thanks for the link c0ffee Nov 18 17:30:42 how about chronicle.. http://code.google.com/p/chronicle-recorder/ Nov 18 17:31:30 hmm. something that I'd implement. sounds heavy duty though, thanks for that link too :-) Nov 18 17:31:44 valgrind is a memory/cpu hog really when dealing with complex stuff Nov 18 17:31:53 also callgrind is somewhat wanting Nov 18 17:32:08 (the cache model is ok, but the CPU/instruction model is way off, and it doesn't have TLB modelling at all) Nov 18 17:32:29 plus it makes the program run at 1% of real speed, but I could live with that :-) Nov 18 17:33:43 this undodb also requires you to run the program in it Nov 18 17:33:59 valgrind does as well. Nov 18 17:34:16 hence the 'also' :) Nov 18 17:34:31 ah. I thought it was 'also' as in suprising :-) Nov 18 17:34:40 * czr blames his headache Nov 18 17:35:26 Oh .. Nov 18 17:35:31 I think I know what the problem is. Nov 18 17:35:47 That's interesting. Nov 18 17:37:03 I think the problem is .. There _is_ no error. Nov 18 17:37:22 ah. reminds me of the clasical "Error 0: No error" dialog in old win32 netscape. Nov 18 17:37:36 Hah Nov 18 17:37:41 it was really funny Nov 18 17:38:49 hmm. bleh. I have to apply the application manager fix on the armel side as well Nov 18 17:39:35 Morning all! Nov 18 17:40:32 ahh... seems like the pysqlitegui and the sqlite3sg are both done using plain gtk and are unusably slow on the device. Nov 18 17:40:51 czr: yeah, something I use likes to say "Fatal Error: Success" Nov 18 17:40:53 ooh. AM fails in a horrible death like way on the ARMEL Nov 18 17:40:55 but I forget what Nov 18 17:41:04 translates to: either the command line tool or I have to write a new tool for it. Nov 18 17:41:06 it's checking errno somewhere inappropriate Nov 18 17:41:07 elb, sounds about right. probably the same team wrote that as did the netscape ;-) Nov 18 17:41:12 crap. Nov 18 17:41:19 czr do you -need- to run them in armel.. probably won't work Nov 18 17:41:35 Hah Nov 18 17:41:42 kaltsi, it doesn't Nov 18 17:41:43 czr: the problem is, errno and strerror only work for certain functions -- and many programmers check them for other functions ;-) Nov 18 17:41:43 valgrind does NOT run on arm Nov 18 17:41:47 scratchbox just segfaulted and dumped me out :/ Nov 18 17:41:51 qemu: Unsupported syscall: 264 Nov 18 17:42:08 czr yep that's to be expected.. there be dragons Nov 18 17:42:11 kaltsi, just wanted to test whether my package building thingy works on ARMEL. Nov 18 17:42:13 No, I can get around all those now ;) Nov 18 17:42:26 kaltsi, yup. it's not critical, I'll test on the devices next Nov 18 17:42:53 elb, they do? silly of them :-) Nov 18 17:43:14 although the whole errno business is a bit silly IMHO. not that I'm saying that it should be changed. too late now, but still. Nov 18 17:43:27 I really like the way that kernel returns the errors in pointers Nov 18 17:43:47 well, that's a different situation Nov 18 17:43:50 although that obviously works for functions that'd return a pointer, but still. Nov 18 17:43:52 * czr nods Nov 18 17:44:16 bleh. I always forget there's no VKB on the n810 Nov 18 17:44:23 * czr keeps clicking on the address bar in vain Nov 18 17:44:33 I thought there was a VKB Nov 18 17:44:40 That's ghey >:( Nov 18 17:44:41 you can get vkb if you want Nov 18 17:44:46 konttori, how? Nov 18 17:44:50 setting is in control panel Nov 18 17:45:00 input methods Nov 18 17:45:05 ah. didn't know that Nov 18 17:45:19 probably disabled by default for n810 configuration Nov 18 17:45:33 at least was on this device Nov 18 17:47:37 hmm. is anyone running os2007 on a n800 here? Nov 18 17:49:00 Cool .. Now it's segfaulting O_O Nov 18 17:49:12 czr: what kind of odd luddites would those be Nov 18 17:49:15 * sp3000 is :) Nov 18 17:49:37 sp3000, care to test whether my package will install on it? Nov 18 17:49:42 the second-to-latest one even, for extra credit Nov 18 17:49:46 ooh Nov 18 17:50:08 http://koltsoff.com/pub/n800/hhwx_0.1-1_armel.deb Nov 18 17:50:14 built using 4.0 really Nov 18 17:50:24 so I'm just curious what will happen with it on 2007 Nov 18 17:50:27 * sp3000 is rocking it hardcore oldskool Nov 18 17:50:35 770 with pre 1.0 images? :-) Nov 18 17:50:46 with the ugly orange button version too? Nov 18 17:50:51 heh Nov 18 17:50:51 that'd be really oldskool :-) Nov 18 17:52:46 sp3000, how about it? Nov 18 17:54:29 appmgr complains about dependencies Nov 18 17:54:38 ok. good to know Nov 18 17:54:57 probably realted to the great hildonlib renaming break that happened Nov 18 17:55:04 it's looking for libhildon-1 and libhildon-fm-2 Nov 18 17:55:15 (atk,c,dbus,gconf,glib,gtk,hildon,osso,pango) Nov 18 17:55:29 hmm. the other libs should be ok methinks Nov 18 17:55:41 it's only those two that were renamed between 3.2 -> 4.0 afair Nov 18 17:56:00 pretty ironic that only the names have been changed, otherwise the program would run quite nicely Nov 18 17:56:11 sp3000, thanks for testing. Nov 18 17:56:15 np Nov 18 17:56:28 was too lazy to reflash 2007 back onto the n800 Nov 18 17:59:01 czr: http://pastebin.mozilla.org/244944 Nov 18 17:59:30 oh. ok then :-) not just the two libs :-) Nov 18 17:59:32 thanks a lot Nov 18 17:59:44 ah yes. the libc break as well. Nov 18 18:00:08 I guess one would have to fix the libdeps manually in order to support older versions Nov 18 18:00:14 but that's too painful Nov 18 18:00:44 whats the dif between bora and mistral on the repositorys Nov 18 18:00:51 ? Nov 18 18:01:05 are they really for dif distros? Nov 18 18:01:22 i seem to be able to install from both Nov 18 18:07:28 * czr goes shopping for cigarettes and coffee Nov 18 18:07:35 long night ahead :-) Nov 18 18:10:42 :) Nov 18 18:12:16 "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..." - Hunter S. Thompson Nov 18 18:13:03 Well, now it's all working okay. I need to create a nice interface for setting up plugins from the ruby side. Nov 18 18:15:43 exit Nov 18 18:27:19 how do i type alt or ctrl from x terminal on the 770? Nov 18 18:31:39 i think that's a menu option - if not you need to get the newest xterm Nov 18 18:33:59 * czr is now loaded and dangerful Nov 18 18:35:44 hmm. af-sb-init.sh stop doesn't work on ARMEL side Nov 18 18:36:37 killall ftw Nov 18 18:37:33 killall -s 15 ! Nov 18 18:37:52 eh, isn't TERM default anyway? Nov 18 18:37:59 Don't know Nov 18 18:38:19 it is Nov 18 18:38:30 so all your -s 15 is pretty.. useless :-) Nov 18 18:38:34 I just have a vague memory of it not killing things properly with no signal specified. Nov 18 18:38:51 neh. -s 9 if you run against that Nov 18 18:39:51 * alterego orders some Chinese Nov 18 18:41:36 wei shenma? rugou ni yao zhongren, ni bu hui coding in maemo. Nov 18 18:41:41 Hmm .. I've ran into another problem now. Nov 18 18:42:15 I need to link against a ruby extension (.so) that's in the ruby sitearchdir .. Nov 18 18:43:23 This is something I don't know how to do at all :/ Nov 18 18:45:54 -Lpath Nov 18 18:46:05 tells ld which directory to also use when linking Nov 18 18:46:20 although at runtime it will become somewhat hairy. can't you use dlopen or similar? Nov 18 18:46:23 Yeah, do you think that'll work when these extensions are dlopen'd by ruby? Nov 18 18:46:43 Well .. My extensions link fine .. Nov 18 18:46:45 I wonder how. Nov 18 18:47:49 It's interesting that ldd doesn't show them as being linked .. Nov 18 18:48:54 * czr shrugs Nov 18 18:48:59 I know 0 about ruby Nov 18 18:49:03 * alterego goes insane. Nov 18 18:49:19 * czr points to the window Nov 18 18:49:30 * alterego jumps out of the window Nov 18 18:49:47 problemsSolved+=1 Nov 18 18:50:16 any other ruby lovas? :-) Nov 18 18:50:28 * czr itches to increment the variable some more Nov 18 18:50:35 Silly question probably, but why is it that 2007 apps won't work in 2008? Nov 18 18:50:45 K`zan, different libc version Nov 18 18:50:53 different everything version :) Nov 18 18:50:54 K`zan, also some libs underwent name changes Nov 18 18:50:56 Ah, OK, that makes sense :-( Nov 18 18:51:01 diff gtk version too methinks Nov 18 18:51:13 Yeah, 2.10 as opposed to 2.6 Nov 18 18:51:14 2008 is up one app from yesterday :). Nov 18 18:51:51 But I think judging that from the maemo repositories is misleading, MM is out for 2008 now. Nov 18 18:52:08 Will be glad when xchat gets here :-). Nov 18 18:52:24 You could always compile it yourself. Nov 18 18:52:30 I'm sure you can get the project source from them. Nov 18 18:52:49 Then again MM (maemo mapper) may not be, I notice it refuses to load maps when you are zoomed in reasonably tight. Nov 18 18:53:13 K`zan: The amount of ported apps will surely grow faster when the devices hit the streets... Nov 18 18:53:35 alterego: I started putting together the dev stuff, just got deb4 installed in a vm, got to do the scratchbox and SDK which were a bit confusing - just haven't gotten back to it. Nov 18 18:53:44 zuh: Most likely :-). Nov 18 18:53:53 scratchbox is easy. Nov 18 18:54:00 Just apt-get the packages you require. Nov 18 18:54:04 Easy for you to say :). Nov 18 18:54:12 Setting up the SDK's is pretty easy. Nov 18 18:54:40 You've just reminded me. I was going to write a couple of patches for the maemo-sdk installers that allows you to specify the SDK names. Nov 18 18:54:43 It has been YEARS since I did any serious PC level software development - been putzing around in microcontrollers for a while. Nov 18 18:55:03 Woo, Chinese dinner is here! Nov 18 18:55:07 That was quick .. Nov 18 18:55:09 So many years, I'd be embarrased to say how many :-). Nov 18 18:55:23 K`zan, 30? Nov 18 18:55:35 Almost... Nov 18 18:56:02 Closer to 20 actually Nov 18 18:56:29 Like riding a bicycle I hope :). Nov 18 18:59:14 Gonna run the battery down in the n800 today... Nov 18 18:59:55 Can't be that many years then ;) Nov 18 19:00:02 Would be nice if one could select power level per connection. Here at home 10mw would do since the AP is less than 5' away... Nov 18 19:00:09 Feels like it :) Nov 18 19:00:41 That's just being an adult. Nov 18 19:00:45 Doesn't make you old ;) Nov 18 19:01:09 No, doesn't. Just makes you feel old LOL! Nov 18 19:01:31 Can't do the multi-day all night and dayers anymore. Nov 18 19:01:35 I'm gonna have to swim for a week to burn off all this food :/ Nov 18 19:01:44 :-) Nov 18 19:02:11 With oriental, you'll be hungry in an hour. Nov 18 19:02:39 We have a really GREAT oriental place here, today seems like a good day to patronize them. Nov 18 19:02:42 I'm always hungry. That's not the point :P Nov 18 19:02:52 LOL, understand that. Nov 18 19:03:14 Where do you live? Nov 18 19:03:21 Good news here as of yesterday I guess is that bacon is no longer bad for you, now it is good for you. Nov 18 19:03:32 Seattle, home of the evil empire. Nov 18 19:03:37 oh? Nov 18 19:03:40 K`zan, which one? :-) Nov 18 19:03:42 bring on the bacon Nov 18 19:03:43 And Kurt ;) Nov 18 19:03:51 there's so many evil empires to choose from nowadays Nov 18 19:04:01 Heh, here there are so many evil empires, starting with the local "government"... Nov 18 19:04:04 Right. Nov 18 19:04:08 That's good I started the day of with a bacon sandwich Nov 18 19:04:24 Wonder when it will be bad for you again? Nov 18 19:04:26 man I want a BLT Nov 18 19:04:34 K`zan: how did it become good? Nov 18 19:04:47 last news I read was that preserved meats are carcinogenic Nov 18 19:04:50 which includes bacon Nov 18 19:04:57 Heh Nov 18 19:05:02 Would be nice, but only nitro ripened and picked 6 months ago orangish stuff in the stores. Nov 18 19:05:19 elb: Secret: you ain't gonna get out of this alive :-). Nov 18 19:05:44 heh I start my day most mornings with eggs over easy, sausage, and griddle-fried toast Nov 18 19:06:06 so that's salmonella, cholesterol, fat, oil, and blah blah blah Nov 18 19:06:12 but man is it good Nov 18 19:06:18 elb, Damnifiknow, too much news too much bad research (commerical / political "science"). Coffee was the last one bad / good /bad before this one that I recall. Nov 18 19:06:19 Heh Nov 18 19:06:27 coffee is all good ;-) Nov 18 19:06:35 Coffee is good. Nov 18 19:06:38 anti-oxidants out the wazoo Nov 18 19:06:39 Ah, yes, latest is good :). Nov 18 19:06:44 Stops liver disease Nov 18 19:06:49 Glad as I drink about 3 pots a day :). Nov 18 19:06:58 Home roasted and ground :). Nov 18 19:06:59 caffeine has been suspect over the years, but latest is that it's OK, too Nov 18 19:07:04 Not commercial swill. Nov 18 19:07:07 (in moderation, of course) Nov 18 19:07:14 yeah, I roast my own Nov 18 19:07:17 Makes people productive, can't be having that. Nov 18 19:07:18 the only way to go :-) Nov 18 19:07:22 Hah Nov 18 19:07:44 I don't notice much of an effect with coffee. Nov 18 19:07:45 Agree *completely*, even the gormet stuff is rancid by the time you get to it. Nov 18 19:07:48 well, it lowers blood pressure and heart rate Nov 18 19:07:48 Unless I've had _too_ much. Nov 18 19:07:58 it used to be believed that it was hard on the cardiovascular system Nov 18 19:07:58 alterego: You just need good coffee :). Nov 18 19:08:12 I have good coffee :P Nov 18 19:08:12 but it turns out that, for regular consumers and in moderation, it's not Nov 18 19:08:19 I don't ever make it at home. Nov 18 19:08:26 Well, I do at weekends in the morning. Nov 18 19:08:33 it does trigger arrhythmia in some people who are sensitive Nov 18 19:08:37 I can no longer handle the swill you get out, even starbucks is crap. Nov 18 19:08:48 starbucks is worse than most of the other swill Nov 18 19:08:50 Normally I go to this nice Italian cafe or polish Nov 18 19:08:55 I prefer generic gas station coffee over starbucks Nov 18 19:09:06 Flying J dominates all over Starbucks ;-) Nov 18 19:09:13 Regular restraunt swill is disgusting, at least you can generally choke starbucks stuff down :) Nov 18 19:09:31 Starbucks is too fruity for my tastes Nov 18 19:09:45 man, I disagree -- Starbucks "house blend" is as bad as the worst restaurant brew Nov 18 19:09:47 The store, employees or the coffee itself ;-)? Nov 18 19:10:05 You missed the vital ingredients. Nov 18 19:10:10 some of their other beans, and their espressos, are a notch up the scale from restaurant junk Nov 18 19:10:11 (The customers :P Nov 18 19:10:13 I quit doing it out, no idea if there even is anything acceptable out there anymore). Nov 18 19:10:20 LOL, too true. Nov 18 19:10:27 Pretentious lot generally. Nov 18 19:10:28 lates are gay Nov 18 19:10:36 so are typos Nov 18 19:10:39 lattes have no sexual orientation, in fact Nov 18 19:10:41 * czr hides & runs Nov 18 19:10:46 LOL, errand bbiab. Nov 18 19:10:53 and they're a perfectly respectable drink, they just aren't *coffee* Nov 18 19:10:54 elb, you have empirical evidence? Nov 18 19:11:00 dunn brothers is best coffee - if you're ever in Minneapolis, it is a must-visit Nov 18 19:11:12 czr: yeah, there aren't even any living cells to *have* orientation Nov 18 19:11:13 Latte is just milk :P Nov 18 19:11:28 alterego: Café Latte, if you will ;-) Nov 18 19:11:37 elb, I'm sure the milk part introduces at least some bacterias :-) Nov 18 19:11:37 I quite like Cafe Latte's Nov 18 19:11:44 pupnik: home roast almost certainly dominates it ;-) Nov 18 19:11:46 It's like a coffee milkshake. Nov 18 19:12:01 although I have to say, the Ethiopian Biloya I had today was a bit bitter Nov 18 19:12:02 although bacterias don't have sexual orientation. hmm, you might be onto something elb Nov 18 19:12:13 elb: they roast twice a day with expensive roasters in each shop Nov 18 19:12:24 pupnik: I hope they don't serve what they roasted that day Nov 18 19:12:43 afaik they do, don't remember. smells real good though. Nov 18 19:12:49 they shouldn't, if they do Nov 18 19:13:02 I wonder what's the difference in hitting the ENTER from pressing it. Nov 18 19:13:03 I just think anyone that goes into Starbucks must be a bit stupid. Nov 18 19:13:06 can software really tell? Nov 18 19:13:11 newly roasted coffee is saturated with CO2, and makes a bitter brew because of it Nov 18 19:13:27 it should be allowed to outgas for 8-12 hours before grinding and brewing Nov 18 19:13:28 duds plz noob here how do i do alt on xterm on the 770, im on irssi cant switch channels :p Nov 18 19:14:10 dud configur de toolbar Nov 18 19:14:13 and ctrl etc Nov 18 19:14:29 will do thanks Nov 18 19:14:48 any linkage? Nov 18 19:14:59 0x4c4f4c Nov 18 19:15:09 * alterego chuckles. Nov 18 19:15:14 mariorz, hang on I'll get it for you Nov 18 19:15:23 coo Nov 18 19:15:25 l Nov 18 19:16:09 mariorz, http://inz.fi/blog/2007/01/24/more-osso-xterm-shortcuts/ Nov 18 19:16:22 damn the headache doesn't let up Nov 18 19:16:37 * czr goes looking for a sledge hammer Nov 18 19:16:37 so dev for this s wth the gtk libs? Nov 18 19:16:48 thanks man Nov 18 19:17:14 If you mean that Gtk is the toolkit in Maemo .. Yes Nov 18 19:17:30 err that yeah Nov 18 19:18:02 cool Nov 18 19:18:39 * alterego eats a spring roll. Nov 18 19:19:04 my audrey booted! Nov 18 19:20:06 audrey=? Nov 18 19:20:18 google? Nov 18 19:20:18 <_Monkey> google is, like, my friend and you should make it your friend too Nov 18 19:20:23 I knew this French girl called Audrey .. Nov 18 19:20:25 bleh. Nov 18 19:20:33 * ol_schoola can't stand it anymore and rings up kung bao pork and chilis Nov 18 19:20:34 I don't think I've been more attracted to a girl in my life :D Nov 18 19:21:16 ol_schoola, I'm sorry. I've finished now. Just a couple of battered pork balls and some prawn crackers :) Nov 18 19:21:19 google loads too! Nov 18 19:22:21 err Nov 18 19:22:23 alterego: no, i ordered up, for real Nov 18 19:22:33 :) Nov 18 19:22:40 That was nice. Nov 18 19:22:44 damn you vile woman! Nov 18 19:22:58 Etsim(~AEur)si sivu on virheelinen. Nov 18 19:23:04 what's that mean? Nov 18 19:23:09 If I ever have a "last meal" it'll probably be a mixture of chilli, chinese, indian and a bacon sandwich. Nov 18 19:23:15 Oh, some steak and chips too. Nov 18 19:23:32 And for desert .. Lemon marangue pie. Nov 18 19:23:34 timelyx: "the page you are looking for has errors" Nov 18 19:23:35 and a ding-dong Nov 18 19:23:39 With strawberries and cream. Nov 18 19:23:43 in finnish and with some very strage encoding Nov 18 19:23:48 thanks Nov 18 19:23:48 +n Nov 18 19:24:15 * alterego starts to feel hungry again. Nov 18 19:24:23 * alterego wants strawberries .. Nov 18 19:27:38 anybody know a python app for maemo that is launchable from menu? i have a python/pygtk program i'd ike to start from menu Nov 18 19:28:25 pupnik: maybe this can help you: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html#link24 Nov 18 19:28:37 thank ye kindly Nov 18 19:29:00 you're wellcome Nov 18 19:29:25 i wonder how many tablet users already have python/pygtk installed Nov 18 19:29:25 You just need a desktop file. Nov 18 19:29:28 Pretty simple. Nov 18 19:29:49 * alterego hopes more have Ruby .. :P Nov 18 19:32:39 hi all Nov 18 19:33:54 hmm. is there a simple way to remove all files except the ones whose globs will match? Nov 18 19:33:59 (in shell) Nov 18 19:34:08 mv them somewhere else first Nov 18 19:34:27 find can negate Nov 18 19:34:33 neh. looking for something that can be done with simple step Nov 18 19:34:40 uniq can be abused Nov 18 19:34:42 without external tools :-) Nov 18 19:34:45 there's also $filter Nov 18 19:34:52 find is external? Nov 18 19:34:59 alterego, external to shell, yes Nov 18 19:35:05 outside busybox Nov 18 19:35:11 find is in busybox Nov 18 19:35:17 It's on the devices. Nov 18 19:35:22 but that'd require reading the man for filter :) Nov 18 19:35:51 :) Nov 18 19:36:17 and starting the shell with -X originally Nov 18 19:37:04 I did a google search on my name last week. I was #2 (my maemo profile) Nov 18 19:37:10 Did the same search now. Nothing :) Nov 18 19:37:16 nm, I'll do without the negation Nov 18 19:38:17 I'm gonna resort to dlopen .. Nov 18 19:38:30 hrm Nov 18 19:38:30 I can't be bothered to waste more time on this :( Nov 18 19:38:31 wait Nov 18 19:38:42 gnome vfs is sending out buggy http requests? Nov 18 19:38:52 anyone here vaguely familiar w/ gnome-vfs? Nov 18 19:38:55 sp3000? Nov 18 19:39:15 not really :) Nov 18 19:39:21 I'd rather not. gnome-vfmess Nov 18 19:58:45 alterego: is it possible that karma is not updated in these days? Nov 18 19:58:53 Yes Nov 18 19:58:59 Mine hasn't moved all weekend. Nov 18 19:59:06 ah ok Nov 18 19:59:08 Andy80: afa-we-k maemo isn't updating planet Nov 18 19:59:11 And Maemo site has been quite broken this weekend. Nov 18 19:59:16 presumably other things are also stuck Nov 18 19:59:33 Yeah, I think karma is also generated once a day. Nov 18 19:59:46 So it wont update until very late tonight. Nov 18 20:00:03 they're all busy at Nokia.... loading the DHL Cargo with our N810's :D Nov 18 20:00:14 * Andy80 joking :P Nov 18 20:01:39 What would be the best dosbox launcher? 1) integrated into xmaeme launcher 2) a standalone gtk-based launcher or 3) a python based launcher? Nov 18 20:02:08 It's going to be easy to start up games and add them to a list. Nov 18 20:08:53 I was thinking about a usefull plugin for minimo browser.... Nov 18 20:09:00 is it compatible with firefox plugins? Nov 18 20:09:43 Not exactly. Nov 18 20:09:51 In fact, not really. Nov 18 20:09:57 a usefull plugin to port into it would be the AdBlockPlus Nov 18 20:10:20 Can't say I've had a problem with adverts on my tablet. Nov 18 20:10:44 they slow down the connection speed Nov 18 20:10:54 and make the rendering of the page slower Nov 18 20:11:00 Oh, you mean like google adds and stuff? Nov 18 20:11:06 Filters them out of the page? Nov 18 20:11:11 I mean all kind of ads Nov 18 20:11:13 Yeah. That would be very cool. Nov 18 20:11:13 yes Nov 18 20:11:28 Do it :P Nov 18 20:11:28 AdBlockPlus for Firefox does this thing Nov 18 20:11:32 try it :) Nov 18 20:11:43 you'll notice the difference even on a normal PC Nov 18 20:15:04 also "noscript" plugin would really help Nov 18 20:15:40 scripts off by default, then you can enable them only for pages you want Nov 18 20:16:05 a popup blocker too would be usefull... Nov 18 20:16:21 pupnik: noscript should be coming Nov 18 20:16:33 not sure when, i need to bug mao Nov 18 20:16:38 cool! Nov 18 20:18:25 timelyx: are you working at the maemo browser? Nov 18 20:18:40 yes Nov 18 20:19:08 although atm i'm playing w/ the audrey browser (voyager) instead Nov 18 20:22:55 40,000 hacks later. Nov 18 20:23:15 Well .. No errors ^_^ Nov 18 20:23:31 It's wyerkin'! Nov 18 20:24:41 I've got my first ruby desktop plugin on the desktop. Nov 18 20:24:46 I could cry :D Nov 18 20:24:55 Now to break it. Nov 18 20:25:07 * alterego means make it better. Nov 18 20:27:18 Is there any easy way to set the font size to bare minimum for all widgets in gtk window (python) Nov 18 20:28:04 Probably need to play around with a gtkrc theme file for your app. Nov 18 20:30:34 Hmmm .. Nov 18 20:31:48 Well .. It works but with a slight issue. Plugins share the same Ruby context. Which means they share resources :/ Nov 18 20:35:33 * czr sent off the first version of the 4.0 updated mat. Nov 18 20:35:38 * czr yays a bit Nov 18 20:35:52 :) Nov 18 20:36:00 Looks like we're both in a good place. Nov 18 20:36:10 My plugin's are working and displaying :) Nov 18 20:36:22 Not very interesting plugins but they work ^_^ Nov 18 20:36:34 I'm not in a good place Nov 18 20:36:39 not in a good place at all :-) Nov 18 20:37:30 I wonder if anyone will notice the 600 KiB drop in the size of the tarball compared to the 3.2 version Nov 18 20:37:38 * czr smirks Nov 18 20:38:33 Heh. Nov 18 20:38:44 Not all deprecated API's surely ;) Nov 18 20:38:55 my lips are sealed Nov 18 20:41:54 evening all... Nov 18 20:41:55 alterego: thanks. Nov 18 20:42:04 Andy80: ciao! :) Nov 18 20:42:04 konttori, no prob, good luck ;) Nov 18 20:42:08 alterego: I was just hoping I could have avoided it Nov 18 20:42:15 Yeah, Nov 18 20:42:29 You can do it programmatically but I don't know the attributes sorry :/ Nov 18 20:42:39 maddler: we :) Nov 18 20:43:07 * alterego wonders how to do transparency. Nov 18 20:45:11 for what? (transparency)? Nov 18 20:45:29 anyhow, time for food and consolation beer Nov 18 20:45:33 later alterego and all Nov 18 20:46:30 czr, have a good evening :) Nov 18 20:46:46 * czr goes to drown his sorrows in alcohol :-) Nov 18 20:47:02 konttori, I've managed to write home plugins in Ruby. I want to make them have transparency effects like the ones that come with OS2008 Nov 18 20:47:36 How about just putting alpha channel to the pixbuf? Nov 18 20:47:39 * alterego wonders if they're cheating .. Nov 18 20:47:54 No, I think Nokia cheat. Nov 18 20:48:06 I actually don't know the proper way to do it, but that's the way I would have designed the plugin framework. Nov 18 20:48:21 They find out the position of the plugin and capture what should be there. Then make it look like it's transparent. Nov 18 20:48:22 those damn cheaters! Nov 18 20:48:52 alterego, no, the desktop has a local compositor, it's true transparency Nov 18 20:49:06 actually, as you can put widgets on top of each other, I think they are not cheating as you described Nov 18 20:49:07 xan-afk, do you know how to utilize it? Nov 18 20:49:10 you can control it via theming or having ARGB visuas in your windows Nov 18 20:49:17 visuals Nov 18 20:49:23 xan-afk, thanks a lot :) Nov 18 20:49:36 I'm gonna have some good ruby-maemo related blogging material for tomorrow :) Nov 18 20:49:49 I think jobi was doing a tutorial about that, not sure if he released it Nov 18 20:50:06 jobi, pfft. Useless bugger :P Nov 18 20:50:30 Kudos for the 2008 theme though .. Nov 18 20:50:56 Time for some bath surfing. Nov 18 21:10:05 sad to say, but watching embedded video is the next thing to useless, 3 frames / words per minute :-( Nov 18 21:10:27 Flash stuff... Nov 18 21:13:19 1 Nov 18 21:18:51 2 Nov 18 21:19:34 5 minutes to make about a 1 minute video wholly useless, perhaps it works better linked through a cell phone. Nov 18 21:46:13 Interesting. maemo 4.0 SDK is not listed at stage.maemo.org Nov 18 21:49:23 hey, for the install file, should it be repo_deb_3 or repo_deb_4? Nov 18 21:49:30 for chinook Nov 18 21:49:50 Probably 4 Nov 18 21:49:54 As chinook is maemo 4 Nov 18 21:50:13 ok. I just didn't find any example install files Nov 18 21:53:46 ah damn. maemo downloads page isn't working on the click to install links ;) Nov 18 21:54:20 Is there a place to find a good sources.list file? Nov 18 21:55:36 It looks like the one on the website is missing a few things, like someone pulled out the URLs Nov 18 21:56:40 Igg-man, for the SDK? Nov 18 21:56:59 * alterego wonders what a /good/ sources.list file is. Nov 18 21:57:06 Just put the repos you need in it. Nov 18 21:57:15 just the repos for the device Nov 18 21:57:31 I think I'm missing something, lots of packages don't install Nov 18 21:58:03 The devic edoesn't have a sources.list file. Nov 18 21:58:21 oh Nov 18 21:58:28 hmm Nov 18 21:58:42 what's the /etc/apt/sources.list file do? Nov 18 21:59:01 alterego what do you mean? Nov 18 21:59:07 Nothing, you should set repositoriesi n hte applicaiton mangaer. Nov 18 21:59:16 okay Nov 18 21:59:25 Is it safe to switch everything to chinook? Nov 18 21:59:30 O_O Nov 18 21:59:31 alterego: the app manager modifies the sources.list.. it's just a frontend to apt-get Nov 18 22:00:00 kaltsi: does it overwrite the file? Nov 18 22:00:03 igg-man what's your OS.. OS2008 or 2007? Nov 18 22:00:10 2007 at the moment Nov 18 22:00:12 kaltsi, have you actually looked at the sources.list file? Nov 18 22:00:18 alterego of course Nov 18 22:00:25 kaltsi, the application manager is _not_ a front end to it. Nov 18 22:00:33 ahem Nov 18 22:00:50 My sources.list file is completely empty. Nov 18 22:00:51 igg-man you should not switch to chinook.. it's for OS2008 Nov 18 22:01:12 alterego do you have a sources.list.d directory there? Nov 18 22:01:13 kaltsi: Do I just need to s/bora/chinook to switch? Nov 18 22:01:25 Yup Nov 18 22:01:28 igg-man: no you need to reflash the device with the new operating system Nov 18 22:01:34 argh, okay Nov 18 22:01:43 alterego ok and under that there is a hildon-something which is a sources.list too Nov 18 22:01:44 So I need to go download that from Nokia's site? Nov 18 22:01:56 igg-man yes but it's not officially available yet Nov 18 22:01:57 I think I read that they don't have it up for n800 users Nov 18 22:02:00 kaltsi, yes. But it's not sources.list is it Nov 18 22:02:15 Igg-man http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/ Nov 18 22:02:21 And application manager doesn't touch sources.list does it. Nov 18 22:02:24 alterego it is.. and if you create a /etc/apt/sources.list the appmanager will also understand that somehow Nov 18 22:02:33 -_- Nov 18 22:02:48 atarii: Sweet, I like that Nov 18 22:02:54 No, it's a completely different file kaltsi Nov 18 22:03:00 What kind of crack are you smoking. Nov 18 22:03:00 in os2008 the appmanager does not touch /etc/apt/sources.list but the /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-something Nov 18 22:03:16 And? Nov 18 22:03:16 <_Monkey> And is it still recommended to go into "red pill" mode on the n800? Nov 18 22:03:23 Igg-man from your n800 your can click the title of each repository and it will install it Nov 18 22:03:25 _Monkey forget and Nov 18 22:03:26 <_Monkey> alterego: I forgot and Nov 18 22:03:29 I think I'm just going to try running n800 with the boro Nov 18 22:03:33 _Monkey and is Nov 18 22:03:34 <_Monkey> OK, alterego. Nov 18 22:03:54 alterego does monkey learn stuff all the time from what people say? Nov 18 22:04:01 Atarii, yeah Nov 18 22:04:07 It's annoying :P Nov 18 22:04:17 that hildon-application-manager.list at least for me looks exactly like a sources.list file Nov 18 22:04:25 trevarthan: I seem t be having trouble with kagu Nov 18 22:04:34 (in case you are around) Nov 18 22:04:48 kaltsi, you're completely missing the point. You said the application manager was a front end for sources.list file. No, it's not. Nov 18 22:04:50 yea, all u seem to be doin is deleting monkey's ramblings Nov 18 22:05:03 konttori: #kagu is a better place :) Nov 18 22:05:17 yeah, hop over konttori Nov 18 22:05:27 konttori are you still working on UKMP? Nov 18 22:05:29 alterego yes I said it modifies sources.list which was wrong :) but I said it's a front end to apt-get Nov 18 22:05:47 kaltsi, just because some other file some other place that is changed by application manager _looks_ like sources.list. Doesn't mean it is that file. Nov 18 22:05:54 It's not like they're symlinked is it .. Nov 18 22:06:12 bah now you're missing the point :) Nov 18 22:06:19 Whatever. Nov 18 22:06:26 This conversation is pointless. Nov 18 22:06:45 which os are you running alterego.. I already forgot 2007/8 ? Nov 18 22:06:45 14m's till my SDK is back up :/ Nov 18 22:06:59 I'm running 2006/7/8 Nov 18 22:07:06 Atarii: yeah, whenever I have the time Nov 18 22:07:13 2.2, 3.2, 4.0 Nov 18 22:07:15 Just put it to chinook extras Nov 18 22:07:18 cool Nov 18 22:08:17 can anyone with n810 try installing it from here: https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukmp/ Nov 18 22:08:48 alterego if you want to know what I was talking about, just create yourself a file /etc/apt/sources.list and put some repository there (that you don't already have).. then open the app manager Nov 18 22:09:11 kaltsi, the sources.list file is there. It's just empty. Nov 18 22:09:21 And I'm not denying it has an effect on the system. Nov 18 22:10:27 konttori: could you anticipate if os2008 includes OProfile support by default? Nov 18 22:10:44 (since chinhook comes with oprofile-viewer...) Nov 18 22:10:49 no idea, sorry Nov 18 22:11:09 shackan by default no Nov 18 22:11:37 kaltsi: uh, so I'll have to rebuild the kernel? :( Nov 18 22:11:39 shackan but the SDK repository has an oprofile enabled kernel that you can install.. read the tools documentation from maemo.org Nov 18 22:11:52 kaltsi: oh, GREAT Nov 18 22:12:01 http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile Nov 18 22:13:25 kaltsi: thanks, sorry for not stfw Nov 18 22:13:42 hehe :) Nov 18 22:14:14 * alterego yawns Nov 18 22:14:37 Next time I'm not going to break my install by installing the latest SVN of hildon-desktop .. Nov 18 22:14:38 Is os2008 going to be "offically" released for the n800? Nov 18 22:14:48 igg-man: yes Nov 18 22:15:13 Cool Nov 18 22:15:16 I think I'll setup a new target maemo-svn-i386 for my pissing around. Nov 18 22:15:56 I'll attempt to compile the desktop from scratch. That'll be interesting. Nov 18 22:34:30 * alterego wonders if the N810 will be available in UK tomorrow. Nov 18 22:34:58 atarii: My packages seem to install good now. Thanks Nov 18 22:35:17 the SDK repository has an oprofile enabled kernel Nov 18 22:35:24 that is interesting Nov 18 22:36:04 pupnik, sort out your python stuff? Nov 18 22:36:26 still trying to decide whether or not to release it Nov 18 22:36:31 yes Nov 18 22:36:31 What is it? Nov 18 22:36:38 dosbox launcher in pygtk Nov 18 22:36:42 Ah Nov 18 22:36:46 Of course :) Nov 18 22:36:59 Sounds like a good idea. Nov 18 22:37:23 yeah it'll launch a game with three stylus taps Nov 18 22:37:31 Heh Nov 18 22:37:56 I managed to get desktop plugins working. People can now use Ruby to code home plugins, status bar plugins and task navigator plugins. Nov 18 22:38:06 that's really cool Nov 18 22:38:19 word to ruby Nov 18 22:38:45 how much system space does a ruby install take up? Nov 18 22:38:50 I'm gonna start making mini-howtos and posting them on my new maemo blog. Nov 18 22:38:56 ~7M Nov 18 22:38:58 a basic python 2.5 takes over 8 M Nov 18 22:39:00 k Nov 18 22:39:09 I'm looking into trimming it down. Nov 18 22:39:45 I might split up the core and stdlib Nov 18 22:39:57 So people have the option of installing the stdlib Nov 18 22:40:45 I might also work on an embedded gem system. Which would work good on the tablets. Nov 18 22:40:59 what is gem system? Nov 18 22:41:02 That'd stop the need for any of the stdlib and programs could get the specific libraries they need. Nov 18 22:41:12 It's kind of like cpan for ruby Nov 18 22:41:36 Unfortunately the current rubygems used in desktop installs doesn't work very well in small devices :/ Nov 18 22:45:17 gems are roughly equivalent to eggs Nov 18 22:48:47 You can't make an omlette with eggs Nov 18 22:48:52 s/eggs/gems Nov 18 23:18:41 Oops Nov 18 23:18:47 Anyone know where the microb compilation instructions are? Nov 18 23:21:47 http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/build_howto.html Nov 18 23:21:58 Thanks :) Nov 18 23:23:47 Hmm .. Guess it's broken on chinook then, Nov 18 23:23:50 this might help too: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2152 Nov 18 23:25:27 Oh great thanks :) Nov 18 23:36:13 could anyone tell me were i could download libgcrypt11 (>=1.2.2) deb as i can use repositrys Nov 18 23:42:21 repositories? Nov 18 23:42:21 <_Monkey> repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php Nov 18 23:46:43 * alterego whistles a little to distract attention from what he's actually doing. Nov 18 23:48:32 (that's right .. No one suspects .. ) Nov 18 23:51:42 sorry but my application manager isint working it freezes so i have to download the .deb files manually iam looking for a couple to run pidgin Nov 18 23:54:43 you can use wget, if you know the repository and directory Nov 18 23:55:46 Bargain .. Nov 18 23:56:01 ruby-maemo now has vte and (hopefully) gtkmozembed Nov 18 23:56:18 * alterego contemplates home plugin browser widget Nov 18 23:56:56 I've also added a stub for gtkglext ;) Nov 18 23:57:00 Just in case ^_^ Nov 19 00:00:08 Well .. The next item on my todo list is a proper dbus implementation .. That's going to take quite some time me thinks. Nov 19 00:12:54 just to confirm does a normal size SD card work in the 770? Nov 19 00:13:41 no, rs-mmc only Nov 19 00:14:13 anyone know if I can use sbrshd on the n800 without the maemo sdk rootfs on the device? Nov 19 00:31:52 or.. is it possible to boot the maemo sdk rootfs from mmc? Nov 19 00:32:45 Possible, yes. Nov 19 00:32:50 Not sure if anyone has done it though. Nov 19 00:34:17 hrm... Nov 19 00:34:28 seems like that'd be more work than sbrshd Nov 19 00:35:33 Probably Nov 19 00:38:07 hrm, alright Nov 19 00:38:30 this howto seems to imply that I need to use maemo sdk on my n800 to use sbrshd or something Nov 19 00:39:34 actually it doesn't imply it.. it explicitly states it Nov 19 00:39:53 prerequisites "Device flashed with the maemo developer rootfs" Nov 19 00:40:28 download the right deb pack (libgcrypt11) wen i try to install system says incompatable app package Nov 19 00:40:41 do i need to install via xterm Nov 19 00:43:24 dpkg -i will install it Nov 19 00:44:05 ok can i install from mmc Nov 19 00:44:08 with that Nov 19 00:44:45 yes, it does not matter where the .deb package is stored Nov 19 00:45:42 new to linux how to i point to mmc iam used to dos (terrible) Nov 19 00:46:13 you can type the path in the file specification Nov 19 00:46:14 for e.g. Nov 19 00:46:28 dpkg -i /media/mmc1/mypackagename.deb Nov 19 00:47:09 thanks brv Nov 19 00:47:12 we might be able to fix your application manager freezes also, if you have a shell open Nov 19 00:47:19 you need to do that as user "root" Nov 19 00:47:20 yhyh i do Nov 19 00:47:42 ok as root, type "apt-get update" and report any errors it gives Nov 19 00:48:05 keesj, around? Nov 19 00:48:26 last seen 10 hours ago Nov 19 00:48:34 !seen keesj Nov 19 00:48:46 whats the command for that Nov 19 00:49:14 10 hours i think i the last time i spoke to him. Nov 19 00:49:18 i was logged on, so i just did a /lastlog keesj Nov 19 00:50:20 k Nov 19 00:52:41 flashed 3 different OS this morning. poky, angstrom, and mamona. Nov 19 00:53:17 did you like any of them? Nov 19 00:53:25 angtrom to user setup, no touchscreen Nov 19 00:53:50 poky, had issues with the touchscreen. had to press really hard. Nov 19 00:53:54 which i didn't like. Nov 19 00:54:05 What device? Nov 19 00:54:07 has anyone here used cpu transparency with sbrshd? Nov 19 00:54:09 n800 Nov 19 00:54:19 now the one with potential. Nov 19 00:54:22 was mamona. Nov 19 00:54:28 wow Nov 19 00:54:41 Details. Nov 19 00:54:46 but seems like you have to setup everything via usbnet Nov 19 00:55:00 lophyte, why do you want cputransp? Nov 19 00:55:06 and my knowledge of terminal is ok, not that good Nov 19 00:55:44 eh, good point.. I guess I can just ssh into the n800 and it'd do the same thing Nov 19 00:55:47 unique311: does mamona have wifi support? Nov 19 00:55:51 was shocked to see the background wallpaper animation working. Nov 19 00:56:13 i think all of this need to be setup via usbnet Nov 19 00:56:15 lophyte, what are you trying to do? Nov 19 00:56:26 which is the only input method available Nov 19 00:56:33 ok Nov 19 00:57:04 play around with n800 development on the device itself Nov 19 00:57:12 keesj was saying the blackbox keyboard could also be use. Nov 19 00:57:26 and I'm only using python so I don't think cpu transparency is an issue since its python Nov 19 00:58:32 unique311: can you install ITOS debian files on those? Nov 19 00:59:06 should be. But mamona has its own repo. but i'm going to try all this today Nov 19 00:59:24 tonight* Nov 19 00:59:58 turkey homicide day 2morrow, i have plenty of time tonight. Nov 19 01:00:59 tueday Nov 19 01:01:03 s Nov 19 01:01:08 lophyte, you want to develop python apps on your main development machine but watch them execute on your device? Nov 19 01:01:22 Just need ssh for that. Nov 19 01:01:28 yeah Nov 19 01:01:28 ssh and sshfs :) Nov 19 01:01:58 * alterego tweaks the build system. Nov 19 01:02:17 good point Nov 19 01:02:19 ruby-maemo 0.4.0 is a good next release I think. Nov 19 01:02:24 I'm pretty proud of it :) Nov 19 01:02:59 rsvg, gtkmozembed, vte, cairo hildon-desktop plugins (home, status, navigator) Nov 19 01:03:14 If only I could get the sucker to build ^_^ Nov 19 01:03:26 My global build script keeps burning up. Nov 19 01:07:17 it's going to be kitten homicide here soon if nokia.de doesn't start carrying the N810 Nov 19 01:07:31 Hah Nov 19 01:07:58 As long as I get it before sept I'm happy. Nov 19 01:08:04 December sorry .. Nov 19 01:11:41 Think I've fixed it .. Nov 19 01:14:00 * alterego watches as the magickal compilation process unfolds. Nov 19 01:16:43 built! :) Nov 19 01:21:29 ls Nov 19 01:21:33 oops wrong window Nov 19 01:23:04 Zap Nov 19 01:30:50 installing libopencdk8 under xterm it errors saying dependancy error Nov 19 01:32:07 that usually means you have to install something else first Nov 19 01:32:30 dpkg-status? Nov 19 01:37:32 hold on Nov 19 01:37:36 tryin again Nov 19 01:42:09 I forgot to add the plugin loader &_& Nov 19 02:01:26 is there any way to prevent the Open file dialog from scanning subdirectories? I am irritated by having to wait 3-9 seconds whenever i drill down into a subdirectory (nokia 770 on mmc with default kernel) Nov 19 02:17:08 No. Nov 19 02:19:40 :\ Nov 19 02:37:42 hola :P Nov 19 02:39:22 Haha finally got pidgin working starting to understand how this all works thanks guys Nov 19 02:40:09 grats Nov 19 02:49:08 this launcher will take 160kb vs 8+MB for the python version Nov 19 02:50:34 is klaatu a regular here? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 19 02:59:56 2007