**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Nov 19 02:59:57 2007
Nov 19 03:10:17 <pupnik> no
Nov 19 03:10:34 <woekele> :<
Nov 19 03:40:39 <Syntra> Heck yes
Nov 19 03:40:57 <Syntra> Ordered a Refurbed Apple Wireless Keyboard from Apple
Nov 19 03:40:59 <Syntra> :D
Nov 19 03:42:35 <pupnik> i hate it when after 12 hours the code starts to jiggle and twitch in front of my eyes
Nov 19 03:42:56 <Syntra> Uhh, I think you might need a break?
Nov 19 03:45:29 <pupnik> don't know when i'll be motivated to work on this again though
Nov 19 03:55:34 <lophyte> where is this '
Nov 19 03:55:37 <lophyte> err
Nov 19 03:55:44 <lophyte> where is this 'maemo-usbnet-chooser' app?
Nov 19 03:55:46 <lophyte> I can't find it anywhere
Nov 19 04:06:03 <mariorz> im trying to find osso-xterm 0.13.mh18
Nov 19 04:41:31 <K`zan> Since one can't set power level by connection, does the power saving automatically reduce the WIFI power out depending on need - thus leaving it set at 100mW and if the WAP is 5' away, it would automatically reduce power as needed?
Nov 19 04:42:20 <K`zan> Reason I asked is that I seemed to get just over 2 hours out of the battery today in the first run-it-down and see how long it lasts exercise.
Nov 19 04:42:40 <K`zan> Here at home 10mw might be fine, out in the world, dunno...
Nov 19 04:45:21 <pupnik> there are a few tweaks you can do for wlan power, sleepiness, wakeyness
Nov 19 05:03:44 <zerojay> Anyone else seem to think that Planet's broken?
Nov 19 05:07:40 <K`zan> Which planet?
Nov 19 05:07:55 <K`zan> Earth does indeed seem a bit rocky from time to time...
Nov 19 05:08:25 <K`zan> pupnik: Will get to those :).
Nov 19 05:09:14 <K`zan> Did figure out what is wrong with the WAP, it insists on giving out itself as the gateway, which it isn't.  Not sure that can be fixed.
Nov 19 05:22:59 <pupnik_> hhahaha the communist video response to thoughtfix contest is pretty funny
Nov 19 05:23:11 <pupnik_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwGEGtexinY
Nov 19 05:33:26 <|R> pupnik_ : hehe it's my fav :)
Nov 19 05:36:19 * pupnik_ hits refresh on nokia.de
Nov 19 05:36:33 <pupnik_> nope - they're not working at 6:30 on a monday
Nov 19 05:36:50 <|R> ehe
Nov 19 05:36:53 <pupnik_> well I am.
Nov 19 05:54:05 <pupnik_> "learning hildon/gtk by osmosis"
Nov 19 06:09:17 <pupnik_> nice entries
Nov 19 06:26:12 <pupnik_> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11931  Vote for the N810 winner for Thoughtfix's N810 promo giveaway!
Nov 19 06:41:15 <Tb0n3> well
Nov 19 06:47:54 <unique311> <pupnik_> "learning hildon/gtk by osmosis"   link?
Nov 19 06:49:15 <pupnik_> hehe just snuffling through other ppl's source code
Nov 19 06:49:22 <pupnik_> and picking up pieces here and there
Nov 19 06:53:38 <lopz> bye
Nov 19 07:03:17 <K`zan> Night folks!
Nov 19 07:03:49 <L0cutus> 'morning !
Nov 19 07:09:26 <mariorz> hi
Nov 19 07:09:26 <_Monkey> hola, mariorz
Nov 19 07:09:39 <mariorz> hola
Nov 19 07:09:40 <_Monkey> que tal, mariorz
Nov 19 07:09:43 <mariorz> heh
Nov 19 07:13:05 <czr> mornink
Nov 19 07:14:24 <mariorz> morning
Nov 19 07:14:25 <_Monkey> aloha
Nov 19 07:14:41 <mariorz> jesus
Nov 19 07:14:56 * czr has to shave, true.
Nov 19 07:15:26 <mariorz> my python 2.4 runtime seesm to not be installed by the package manager
Nov 19 07:15:41 <mariorz> how woild i go about removing it to install 2.5
Nov 19 07:15:42 <mariorz> ?
Nov 19 07:16:13 <mariorz> on the 770
Nov 19 07:16:18 <mariorz> ?
Nov 19 07:18:10 <mariorz> any linkage?
Nov 19 07:38:35 <pupnik> apt-get remove python*
Nov 19 07:50:43 <mariorz> pupnik: thhanks, Im getting resource temp unavailable.. another process using i... i've unistalleb about every app except for the xterm, openssh and some font libs.. still get that error
Nov 19 07:53:04 <mariorz> err nvm python 2.4 seems to be removed
Nov 19 07:53:56 <mariorz> jus getteing a dependency wiht a osso-thumbnail9 0.5 fix, is there another rep for libs like this?
Nov 19 07:57:21 <czr> for some reason I'm always thinking snatchbox when writing scratchbox..
Nov 19 08:00:26 <pupnik> hm
Nov 19 08:00:47 <pupnik> sorry dunno that library mariorz - check gronmayer
Nov 19 08:00:51 <pupnik> repositories?
Nov 19 08:00:52 <_Monkey> repositories is, like, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories  and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
Nov 19 08:08:55 <mariorz> ehh apperantly adding on of those repos did it, tried installing 2.5 again adn didnt prompt for the error
Nov 19 08:08:58 <mariorz> thanks
Nov 19 08:09:13 <mariorz> its downloading :D
Nov 19 08:40:00 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 19 08:47:39 <Jaffa> Is planet updating yet?
Nov 19 08:59:13 <czr> "Prequisites"
Nov 19 08:59:17 * czr bands head against wall
Nov 19 08:59:26 <X-Fade> Jaffa: It should begin updating again in the next hour..
Nov 19 09:06:15 <Jaffa> X-Fade: what was the problem, out of interest? It's odd for a site to go up and down so frequently out-of-hours and then be broken?
Nov 19 09:06:37 <X-Fade> Jaffa: cron died :)
Nov 19 09:09:56 <kulve> what kind of system gets it's cron dead?
Nov 19 09:10:16 <kulve> -'
Nov 19 09:11:07 <X-Fade> I have no idea, that something for the administrators to find out ;)
Nov 19 09:11:20 <Jaffa> X-Fade: doh
Nov 19 09:14:09 <josht> characters other than ctrl?  What syntax do I use?
Nov 19 09:15:32 <josht> hmmm, that should have started with "in maemo's xterm, how do I use non-alphabetic ...
Nov 19 09:16:18 <josht> How in shortcuts, I mean.
Nov 19 09:18:31 <AD-N770> bon dia / good morning
Nov 19 09:21:36 <josht> nm
Nov 19 09:24:05 <felipec> huomenta AD-N770
Nov 19 09:25:34 <timelyx> josht
Nov 19 09:25:40 <timelyx> oh good
Nov 19 09:25:44 * timelyx goes to work
Nov 19 09:33:58 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Ok, flood gates are opened ;) Lots of new items...
Nov 19 09:39:34 <unique311> lots of new items?
Nov 19 09:42:30 <czr> hmm. is there a nice page giving the official hw specs for N810 somewhere?
Nov 19 09:42:32 <Jaffa> X-Fade: cool
Nov 19 09:43:14 <timelyx> hrm
Nov 19 09:43:26 <timelyx> czr? any idea who's supposed to push pataches into the kernel?
Nov 19 09:43:48 <czr> timelyx, hmm. apt-cache show kernel-headers and send email to the maintainer?
Nov 19 09:43:55 <czr> at least they'll know. I don't.
Nov 19 09:44:21 * timelyx pretends not to have a device
Nov 19 09:44:27 <timelyx> can you answer the apt-cache bit? :)
Nov 19 09:44:30 <czr> ok, let me see
Nov 19 09:44:39 <czr> or I could say "google" like you do ;-)
Nov 19 09:45:14 <czr> try yauheni.kaliuta@nokia.com
Nov 19 09:45:53 * timelyx knows him
Nov 19 09:46:06 <czr> I know him only via email
Nov 19 09:48:17 * timelyx grumbles
Nov 19 09:48:21 * timelyx kicks the reporter
Nov 19 09:48:27 <timelyx> consider https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1640&group_id=441&atid=1664
Nov 19 09:48:30 <timelyx> then read the original bug report
Nov 19 09:49:18 <timelyx> there's no mention in https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2249 of the garage report. nor is there mention that the kernel clearly doesn't support it
Nov 19 09:49:58 <czr> well. I think "they" think that since .jp isn't a market area, all bugs related to .jp can/will be ignored
Nov 19 09:50:00 * czr shrugs
Nov 19 09:50:06 <X-Fade> Hmmm: I guess that is the problem when a devices grows wider. Can't reach the keys with your thumbs ;) http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/19/gigabyte-reveals-m704-umpc/
Nov 19 09:50:22 <czr> timelyx, but yeah, I agree.
Nov 19 09:50:23 <timelyx> czr: i'd like people to be taught not to file shitty bug reports
Nov 19 09:50:29 <timelyx> taking a bug which had lots of relevant information
Nov 19 09:50:34 <czr> timelyx, pay them money :-)
Nov 19 09:50:36 <timelyx> and stripping all of that, only to refile in another place
Nov 19 09:50:43 * czr hides & runs
Nov 19 09:50:52 <timelyx> and then making me waste *my* time / money to investigate things they already knew...
Nov 19 09:51:00 <timelyx> czr: no shirt for you
Nov 19 09:51:08 <czr> I already have a shirt, thanks anyway ;-)
Nov 19 09:51:42 <czr> timelyx, http://geekz.co.uk/shop/store/show/knuth-tshirt
Nov 19 09:51:49 <czr> beats any nokia/maemo t-shirt hands-down :-)
Nov 19 09:52:01 <czr> and yes, the shirt is truly as scary as in the picture.
Nov 19 09:52:32 <czr> hmm. what does it mean to have: "Smooth slide with integrated QWERTY keyboard"
Nov 19 09:52:36 <czr> (from N810 hw spec page)
Nov 19 09:52:50 <czr> it means the keyboard is an additional bonus to the slider thingy?
Nov 19 09:53:11 <timelyx> http://www.samsung.com/common/microsite/e800/ ? :)
Nov 19 09:53:15 <czr> or maybe it means that having a keyboard now equals to getting better slide action in other contexts
Nov 19 09:53:27 <czr> heh
Nov 19 09:53:40 <czr> I don't have flash though. but the slogan pretty much says it all :-)
Nov 19 09:54:02 * timelyx doesn't have flash either
Nov 19 09:54:05 <czr> is the  Nokia Maps BP-4L battery 1500mA?
Nov 19 09:54:21 <timelyx> europe.nokia.com/A4423145 -
Nov 19 09:54:26 <czr> hmm. isn't it supposed to be 1500mAh?
Nov 19 09:54:50 <timelyx> output v. output time?
Nov 19 09:54:58 <czr> hmh.
Nov 19 09:55:15 <czr> I have no idea. the material now currently says that there's a 1500mA battery in 770 and 800
Nov 19 09:55:26 <czr> just wondering whether that's even a valid unit to measure battery "size"
Nov 19 09:56:06 <czr> and wtf is Nokia Maps anyway.
Nov 19 09:56:13 <timelyx> nothing probably?
Nov 19 09:56:22 <timelyx> the 2008 os includes an app called Map, not Maps
Nov 19 09:56:30 * czr nods
Nov 19 09:56:40 * timelyx wants to stab someone for misspelling maps
Nov 19 09:56:59 <timelyx> assuming you're talking about tablets
Nov 19 09:57:01 <czr> timelyx, http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n810_en_R1.html
Nov 19 09:57:03 <timelyx> the phones ship a maps app
Nov 19 09:57:05 <czr> grep for battery:
Nov 19 09:57:20 <timelyx> hrm
Nov 19 09:57:33 <czr> what is a nokia maps battery anyway :-)
Nov 19 09:57:41 <timelyx> mine says:
Nov 19 09:57:48 <timelyx> +-o 3.7V
Nov 19 09:57:50 <timelyx> BP-4L
Nov 19 09:57:55 <timelyx> --------------
Nov 19 09:57:59 <timelyx> NOKIA
Nov 19 09:58:14 <czr> yup
Nov 19 09:58:16 <timelyx> and it has a pretty hologram
Nov 19 09:58:21 <timelyx> which i will not try to reproduce in ASCII
Nov 19 09:58:24 <czr> "genuine microsoft"
Nov 19 09:58:41 <czr> I'm too afraid to open the cover in mine
Nov 19 09:58:53 <czr> the back cover feels a littly flimsy
Nov 19 09:58:58 <czr> little even
Nov 19 09:59:26 * timelyx ponders
Nov 19 09:59:35 <timelyx> if you were making a product primarily for the  USA
Nov 19 09:59:40 <timelyx> where would you stick English in a list?
Nov 19 09:59:48 <czr> hmm. does nokia support external gps receivers with 770?
Nov 19 09:59:52 <timelyx> search "User interface languages"
Nov 19 09:59:56 <timelyx> czr: sure
Nov 19 09:59:58 <czr> I know the 2008 does with N800
Nov 19 10:00:04 <timelyx> well, for some messed up definition of support
Nov 19 10:00:07 <timelyx> it works fine w/ maemomapper
Nov 19 10:00:18 <czr> I'm looking for official support. not community provided.
Nov 19 10:00:29 <kulve> nokia doesn't support 770
Nov 19 10:00:37 <timelyx> well, you can buy the nokia maps bundle for the 770
Nov 19 10:00:41 <czr> hmm
Nov 19 10:00:43 <timelyx> it included a bt gps
Nov 19 10:00:50 <czr> ah, ok.
Nov 19 10:00:52 <timelyx> not sure if you can still *find* that
Nov 19 10:01:02 <timelyx> but if you can, then "sure" it "supports bt gps"
Nov 19 10:01:23 * czr nods
Nov 19 10:01:31 <czr> I'm updating the hw spec comparison chart
Nov 19 10:01:38 <timelyx> google: 770 navigation site:nokia.com
Nov 19 10:01:51 <timelyx> http://europe.nokia.com/EUROPE_NOKIA_COM_3/Accessories/flash/data/xml/others/770NavigationKit.html
Nov 19 10:01:59 <czr> ok. great.
Nov 19 10:02:13 <timelyx> which chart?
Nov 19 10:03:08 <czr> timelyx, for the training material
Nov 19 10:03:16 <czr> I doubt it has passed your eyes
Nov 19 10:03:21 <czr> or maybe it has, /me shrugs
Nov 19 10:05:57 <timelyx> i think i've had offers to look
Nov 19 10:06:04 <timelyx> i can't remember if i decided to look
Nov 19 10:06:04 * czr nods
Nov 19 10:06:09 <czr> that's prolly the 3.2 material anyway
Nov 19 10:06:14 <czr> working on a 4.0 update now
Nov 19 10:06:16 <timelyx> i think i've had offers for both actually
Nov 19 10:06:30 <czr> hmm. I only released the 4.0 one yesternight
Nov 19 10:06:35 <czr> or rather, one part of it
Nov 19 10:06:38 <timelyx> ok, then not that one :)
Nov 19 10:06:42 * czr nods
Nov 19 10:06:47 <timelyx> there are too many things floating around
Nov 19 10:06:53 <timelyx> if you want a proofer, give me a weekend
Nov 19 10:06:55 <czr> VFP FTW
Nov 19 10:07:11 <czr> heh. sure. the material is large though :-)
Nov 19 10:07:30 <czr> targetted at the beginner level, doesn't assume GTK+ experience what-so-ever.
Nov 19 10:07:38 <timelyx> that's fine
Nov 19 10:07:44 <timelyx> but, i'll figure it out from context
Nov 19 10:07:46 <czr> cool
Nov 19 10:07:54 <czr> more eyes = better
Nov 19 10:07:55 <timelyx> and if at some point it seems to have a different bent, i'll slap you for it :)
Nov 19 10:08:04 <czr> heh
Nov 19 10:08:13 <timelyx> seriously, that's how i read... build mental model, and when things don't fit, complain
Nov 19 10:08:22 <czr> that's fine
Nov 19 10:08:28 <rothiel> Hi all
Nov 19 10:08:36 <czr> I seriously don't think that the material has gotten proper review even once
Nov 19 10:08:59 <timelyx> i wouldn't doubt it
Nov 19 10:09:03 <timelyx> it/that
Nov 19 10:09:20 <timelyx> most of the stuff i look at should be in final condition (because it's *published*)
Nov 19 10:09:27 <timelyx> but i find basic errors on most pages
Nov 19 10:09:44 <czr> timelyx, the whole process has more or less looked like this: http://matin.maapallo.org/site.pl/selain/?c=dilbert&i=2258
Nov 19 10:10:18 * timelyx rotfl
Nov 19 10:10:21 * timelyx misses dilbert
Nov 19 10:10:27 <timelyx> well, unless office=dilbert
Nov 19 10:10:33 <czr> :-)
Nov 19 10:10:35 <timelyx> in which case, i miss permission to laugh at dilbert
Nov 19 10:14:07 <czr> 4.0 builds for ARMv6, right?
Nov 19 10:14:38 <kulve> by default? probably not
Nov 19 10:14:46 <czr> hmm. ARMv5 then?
Nov 19 10:14:54 <kulve> probably yes
Nov 19 10:15:01 <timelyx> not sure
Nov 19 10:15:17 <timelyx> probably best to look at how glibc or the other evil things work
Nov 19 10:15:19 <czr> heh. I'll just see what the reviewers will say then ;-). leaving at ARMv5
Nov 19 10:15:34 <timelyx> they either hint at forcing or not forcing
Nov 19 10:15:56 <kulve> same packages may of cource have options to compile for armv6, but the toolchain builds for armv5 unless said otherwise
Nov 19 10:16:09 <kulve> course
Nov 19 10:16:34 <czr> hmm. so building against ARMv6 is possible, and the executables will run on 2420?
Nov 19 10:16:43 <kulve> yeah
Nov 19 10:16:51 <czr> ok.
Nov 19 10:16:52 <kulve> CFLAGS='-mcpu=arm1136j-s'
Nov 19 10:16:57 <kulve> or with -march
Nov 19 10:17:13 <czr> won't the ABI break or anything?
Nov 19 10:18:20 <kulve> I think not.. -march says which instruction set to use, not how to build up APIs (or something)
Nov 19 10:18:35 <czr> hmm. ok
Nov 19 10:18:57 <czr> thanks kulve
Nov 19 10:19:14 <timelyx> yeah
Nov 19 10:19:26 <kulve> floating point and thumb stuff is also interesting, when compiling for armv6
Nov 19 10:19:30 <kulve> (with vfp)
Nov 19 10:19:39 <timelyx> it only means you can't run them on cpus that don't support whichever
Nov 19 10:19:43 <czr> yup. lardman told me how to use that
Nov 19 10:19:57 <czr> timelyx, well, running the stuff on 770 would be hard anyway
Nov 19 10:20:02 <czr> at least I think it would.
Nov 19 10:20:09 <kulve> running what stuff?
Nov 19 10:20:19 <czr> stuff that would be built for ARMv6
Nov 19 10:20:30 <kulve> yeah, they won't run on armv5
Nov 19 10:20:36 <suihkulokki> the main reason current toolchain doesn't default to armv6 is that armv6 support to qemu landed in very recently (as in last week)
Nov 19 10:20:39 <czr> that and different lib versions and everything.
Nov 19 10:20:48 <czr> suihkulokki, ah.
Nov 19 10:21:00 <kulve> suihkulokki: but sbrsh has existed and works just fine :)
Nov 19 10:21:27 <timelyx> erm
Nov 19 10:21:29 * timelyx frowns
Nov 19 10:21:56 <suihkulokki> kulve: yeah, but you don't want to expose a average #maemo hacker to setting up sbrsh to real device :P
Nov 19 10:22:09 <kulve> I don't? :)
Nov 19 10:22:45 <suihkulokki> well.. I don't know how sadistic you are :)
Nov 19 10:23:09 <tsavola> it used to be easier for 770
Nov 19 10:23:25 <kaltsi> even I could do it so it shouldn't be that hard
Nov 19 10:23:51 <czr> hmm. how much of the internal flash is used when N810 ships?
Nov 19 10:23:56 <suihkulokki> more moving pieces -> more things that can be broken
Nov 19 10:23:57 <czr> any ball-bark figures?
Nov 19 10:24:18 <czr> suihkulokki, more interesting positions the pieces may fall into when things break too :-)
Nov 19 10:24:33 <czr> "oh, that looks interesting"-kind of thingies.
Nov 19 10:27:36 <colinl> hi! Is there anyone here with IT OS 2008 and a few minutes to test a Claws Mail's .install and packages?
Nov 19 10:45:15 <Jaffa> X-Fade: is it known within the maemo.org admins that karma's now entirely disappeared?
Nov 19 10:45:45 <Jaffa> Oh, no - seems to just be me.
Nov 19 10:45:51 <kulve> Jaffa: and me
Nov 19 10:46:16 <X-Fade> Jaffa: There is a daily recount. Could be that that is running right now.
Nov 19 10:46:39 <kulve> X-Fade: it's been broken for the whole weekend at least
Nov 19 10:46:53 <X-Fade> kulve: Sure, as cron hasn't been running ;)
Nov 19 10:47:12 <Jaffa> X-Fade: all my profile info's gone too: https://maemo.org/profile/view/jaffa
Nov 19 10:47:44 <X-Fade> Should automagically fix itself when the job is done..
Nov 19 10:48:18 <Jaffa> Really?
Nov 19 10:48:30 <Jaffa> ETA? I'll hold off raising a bug until then.
Nov 19 10:48:41 <X-Fade> Yep. Recount == whipe account stats and regenerate..
Nov 19 10:49:01 <Jaffa> No, but it's not just the stats, it's also "personal website" etc.
Nov 19 10:49:12 <Jaffa> Profile picture's gone - the whole thing is empty.
Nov 19 10:49:27 <X-Fade> Hmm true..
Nov 19 10:49:33 <X-Fade> bergie: Any ideas?
Nov 19 10:50:28 <Jaffa> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2321 now raised :)
Nov 19 10:54:37 <bergie> X-Fade: yes... it seems the user export from Garage produced a feed with lots of users missing
Nov 19 10:54:50 <bergie> so the users were marked as removed
Nov 19 10:54:57 <bergie> and then next export created new user records
Nov 19 10:56:08 <Jaffa> Sounds fairly fatal.
Nov 19 10:56:13 <Fatal> lies
Nov 19 10:56:29 <bergie> Jaffa: no data was deleted so we can recover
Nov 19 10:57:05 <X-Fade> bergie: garage was down this weekend for some time. Maybe that is why the userfeed was empty ;)
Nov 19 10:57:10 <bergie> the gforge exporter will need some auditing, though
Nov 19 10:57:13 <bergie> X-Fade: could be, yes
Nov 19 10:57:49 <Jaffa> bergie: cool - although it's only a few URLs and a picture, I'm a lazy individual :)
Nov 19 10:58:13 <bergie> Jaffa: it is a bit more than that... favs, dev program etc
Nov 19 10:58:53 <bergie> Jaffa: now they all belong to "your former self"... we just need to reassign them to the active account
Nov 19 10:59:38 <Jaffa> bergie: ah, good point. ta.
Nov 19 11:00:37 <X-Fade> Jaffa: You got cloned over the weekend ;) But something went horribly wrong. Frankenstein style...
Nov 19 11:08:06 <Jaffa> X-Fade: bound to be an improvement, TBH
Nov 19 11:09:05 <czr> hmm. is Xomap based on Kdrive?
Nov 19 11:09:11 <czr> or regular x.org build?
Nov 19 11:09:26 <X-Fade> czr: kdrive, iirc.
Nov 19 11:09:32 * czr nods
Nov 19 11:21:55 <inz> czr, in mistral the source for xserver-xomap was xserver-kdrive, in bora it was xserver-xorg
Nov 19 11:22:15 <czr> inz, yes, but that doesn't answer the question :-)
Nov 19 11:22:23 <inz> czr, sure it doesn't
Nov 19 11:22:26 <czr> packaging changed also in ubuntu, but that's not really significant :-)
Nov 19 11:22:30 <czr> same happened with xephyr too
Nov 19 11:22:46 <czr> (it's also a kdrive version)
Nov 19 11:23:09 <czr> I'll go with kdrive
Nov 19 11:58:58 <Andy80> hi all
Nov 19 12:03:21 <woekele> hi Andy80
Nov 19 12:39:49 <czr> what's the correct product category to report about incorrect d-bus namespace usage? (hildon_desktop_notification)
Nov 19 12:46:09 <timeless> hello world
Nov 19 12:46:16 <lardman> hello timeless
Nov 19 12:57:28 <Spakman> does osso-xterm-advanced run on 2008OS?
Nov 19 12:57:54 <inz> Only if you compile it yourself
Nov 19 12:58:20 <czr> inz, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2322
Nov 19 12:58:27 <czr> just fyi :-)
Nov 19 13:01:58 <Spakman> thanks inz - what about another terminal program?
Nov 19 13:03:13 <timeless> czr: why didn't you file that in Desktop?
Nov 19 13:03:28 <czr> timeless, I have no idea
Nov 19 13:03:43 * timeless looks for a cluebat
Nov 19 13:03:51 <czr> if you find it, do tell me.
Nov 19 13:04:07 <timeless> i think i need an apropriately well padded cluebat
Nov 19 13:04:11 <timeless> you're too valuable for a rock solid one
Nov 19 13:04:22 <czr> can it also be pink and fluffy?
Nov 19 13:04:27 * czr needs some tender loving
Nov 19 13:04:30 <lardman> Spakman: there's one built in, scroll down one of the menus
Nov 19 13:04:44 <lardman> Spakman: utilities I think
Nov 19 13:04:45 <timeless> the ones i usually stock tend to be yellow and spongy, but i might be able to soak it in bubble gum...
Nov 19 13:04:56 <czr> timeless, sound promising
Nov 19 13:05:11 <timeless> cotton candy would probably be better i suppose
Nov 19 13:05:39 <timeless> will you move it? :)
Nov 19 13:06:23 <inz> czr, surprise surprise
Nov 19 13:06:45 <inz> Spakman, I think 2008 includes a terminal by default
Nov 19 13:07:09 <timeless> /osso-xterm-0.14.mh1/debian/control
Nov 19 13:07:09 <czr> timeless, I wouldn't know where to. maybe it's better someone more clueful will move it.
Nov 19 13:07:11 <timeless> yes it does
Nov 19 13:07:19 <lardman> Anyone have any thoughts or pointers to the map data format on OS2008?
Nov 19 13:07:22 <czr> otherwise I'll break my "submit under most unlikely category"-streak.
Nov 19 13:07:25 <timeless> czr: Desktop/Task Navigator doesn't sound reasonable?
Nov 19 13:07:28 <suihkulokki> lardman: khexedit
Nov 19 13:07:33 <czr> timeless, it's not TN
Nov 19 13:07:54 <lardman> suihkulokki: indeed, that's the next stop after asking if anyone else has started :)
Nov 19 13:07:56 <timeless> fwiw, os2007 for the same search does not show xterm
Nov 19 13:08:02 <timeless> (cross references are nice)
Nov 19 13:08:04 * timeless ponders
Nov 19 13:08:15 <timeless> i wonder if i could tarball */debian/* and publish that
Nov 19 13:08:24 <timeless> from itos2005/2006/2007/2008
Nov 19 13:08:51 <timeless> it shouldn't have anything confidential
Nov 19 13:08:54 <czr> anyhow, time for shower and some food.
Nov 19 13:09:01 <timeless> and it's actually useful for answering questions such as these
Nov 19 13:10:12 <Spakman> thanks inz
Nov 19 13:11:03 <suihkulokki> timeless: do you know a) when mozilla 1.9 is coming out b) if trunk already has necessary patches to run on arm eabi
Nov 19 13:11:07 <Andy80> any news about the N810 availability day on the online shops?
Nov 19 13:11:22 <lardman> suihkulokki: navit looks pretty interesting, esp if the built-in maps could be used
Nov 19 13:11:31 <timeless> a. no
Nov 19 13:11:45 <timeless> b. sorry, i'm currently in debian hell
Nov 19 13:11:46 <suihkulokki> lardman: navit.sf.net ? I noticed it yes.
Nov 19 13:11:52 <timeless> i'll get back to you when i exit
Nov 19 13:13:02 <lardman> suihkulokki: yep. I didn't realise the openstreetmap data contained road speeds and direction info for the routing
Nov 19 13:21:49 <bergie> lardman: depends how well a road is tagged, of course
Nov 19 13:24:32 <lardman> bergie: yes, I just didn't realise those sorts of tags were being added
Nov 19 13:24:38 <lardman> bergie: but all good :)
Nov 19 13:25:48 * lardman is interested in routing algorithms for some obscure reason
Nov 19 13:25:54 <bergie> lardman: well, OSM is a bit of a jungle... there are lots of recommended tags (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features) but whether map authors use them is another question...
Nov 19 13:26:17 <bergie> but as more apps use OSM data for routing the quality of the data is bound to improve
Nov 19 13:26:37 <lardman> I'll have to grab an editor and see how well populated the places I need to visit are
Nov 19 13:26:49 <bergie> great
Nov 19 13:27:01 <bergie> and don't forget that you can fix any faulty data you run into :-)
Nov 19 13:27:08 <lardman> indeed
Nov 19 13:27:57 <suihkulokki> an application that gathers gps data and lets you edit OSM directly from the tablet would be really cool
Nov 19 13:29:13 <suihkulokki> ..apparently maemo mapper already does that
Nov 19 13:29:14 <bergie> suihkulokki: we've been talking about that
Nov 19 13:29:29 <lardman> really?
Nov 19 13:29:46 <suihkulokki> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Creating_a_track_with_Maemo-mapper
Nov 19 13:30:03 <bergie> suihkulokki: that is just track logging (an important step, of course), not actual map editing
Nov 19 13:30:21 <bergie> our idea was to build something like this: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/notes_from_the_state_of_the_map_conference.html#1d7f31bce630410e32324c11902e1481
Nov 19 13:31:47 <lardman> difficult I imagine making sure the speed limits and road names are set at the correct positions
Nov 19 13:32:12 <bergie> lardman: you tag road segments
Nov 19 13:32:26 <lardman> bergie: I know, but doing it on the move I mean
Nov 19 13:32:48 <bergie> lardman: yep, that would need some tuning
Nov 19 13:33:36 <lardman> road names are a pita as they are difficult to see from the driver's seat, speed limits ought to be quite easy - perhaps use the actual speed data and average over lots of different sets of data from a given road
Nov 19 13:33:56 <lardman> or have the driver say the limit and convert it to a tag
Nov 19 13:34:20 <X-Fade> lardman: Or just drive at the allowed speed ;)
Nov 19 13:34:24 <bergie> you can have a co-pilot doing this stuff
Nov 19 13:34:58 <lardman> X-Fade: well yeah, you could do that, but I was thinking more of the other case when you're stuck behind a tractor making a derestricted road into a 15mph version ;)
Nov 19 13:35:16 <lardman> bergie: yes
Nov 19 13:35:34 <X-Fade> lardman: Well ok, there is that problem :)
Nov 19 13:35:38 <bergie> ...or just stop (and ensure your car has a proper warning like http://www.jinx.com/other_swag/stickers/geek/wardriving_bumper.html)
Nov 19 13:38:12 <lardman> lol
Nov 19 13:40:22 * lardman could have done with some geoclue integration in London at the weekend to find the closest pub serving chips
Nov 19 13:40:49 <bergie> lardman: feel free to hack :-)
Nov 19 13:41:30 <lardman> it's deciding what will actually be useful
Nov 19 13:41:40 <lardman> or expandable I suppose
Nov 19 13:42:35 <lardman> but it's certainly doable if you have a list - toptable for example does restaurants, it would be possible to grab the list and then allow searches and position to be displayed
Nov 19 13:42:55 * X-Fade plans to include firealarms for firefighters on an openstreetmap on N810 as a test for a chemical company...
Nov 19 13:43:05 <bergie> eat.fi has AFAIK a downloadable DB of restaurants in helsinki
Nov 19 13:43:05 <lardman> Sounds interesting
Nov 19 13:43:11 <bergie> with geotags
Nov 19 13:43:12 <X-Fade> Live alarms that is..
Nov 19 13:43:24 <NeoStrider> hey folks
Nov 19 13:43:57 <lardman> bergie: that's one of the problems, lots of these lists are city dependant, which means you'd have to autoswitch or not have coverage for lots of people
Nov 19 13:44:20 <bergie> lardman: or just decide to support GeoRSS and then enable people to add whatever restaurant feeds they find
Nov 19 13:44:58 <bergie> that could be done actually just with the GeoRSS2POI script we hacked with ajturner for downloading GeoRSS and putting the data to maemo mapper
Nov 19 13:45:13 <bergie> the script would need a bit of love and a nice UI though
Nov 19 13:45:25 <lardman> I'll have a read about geoRSS
Nov 19 13:45:33 <lardman> need lunch now though, bbl
Nov 19 14:11:14 <Spakman> anyone know if initfs_flash works with OS2008?
Nov 19 14:16:43 <Tak> greetings pantomaemes!
Nov 19 14:20:14 <rothiel> re
Nov 19 14:44:00 <rothiel> ;)
Nov 19 14:45:59 <lophyte> hey all
Nov 19 14:48:23 <lopz> hola
Nov 19 14:48:29 <lophyte> hey
Nov 19 15:00:48 <lardman> I'd been thinking that maemo hadn't changed for a long time, but when I scroll down the news I see new items. Not sure this ranking posts works all that well
Nov 19 15:01:26 <lardman> maemo.org that is
Nov 19 15:02:46 <keesj> and also the garage news is gone , that one changed a lot
Nov 19 15:03:52 <Spakman> anyone know how I can get esfsprogs on OS2008?
Nov 19 15:06:02 <lardman> is it not in the repo?
Nov 19 15:08:49 <Spakman> I can't seem to find it :(
Nov 19 15:11:07 <Spakman> lardman - which repository did you find it in?
Nov 19 15:17:34 <lardman> Spakman: not sure for os2008, but for os2007 it was in the sdk repo
Nov 19 15:17:48 <lardman> iirc
Nov 19 15:19:39 <Spakman> ah, I was in blue pill mode. Thanks lardman
Nov 19 15:19:47 <lardman> np
Nov 19 15:34:16 <timeless> "esfsprogs" is not in chinook:debian/control
Nov 19 15:38:29 <Spakman> timeless - I found it in at repository.maemo.org (red pill mode)
Nov 19 16:00:38 <Andy80> hi
Nov 19 16:01:39 <Andy80> just a quick question about N810... in wich part of it is located the integrated microphone? like the one N770 has in the bottom...
Nov 19 16:20:16 <Jaffa> Andy80: middle of the front at the top, AFAIK
Nov 19 16:21:09 <Andy80> Jaffa: thanks :) I asked because I watched some videos on youtube, showing the hardware, and mic was not mentioned :S
Nov 19 16:42:54 <rhykin> so does anyone know if the wireless improved (capability with EAP-TLS) in OS2008?
Nov 19 17:20:50 * |R just got his M1200
Nov 19 17:26:51 * lardman wonders what an M1200 is
Nov 19 17:27:01 <|R> oh, a BT GPS :)
Nov 19 17:27:10 <lardman> ah, good good
Nov 19 17:27:47 <linuxkrn> hey all, I was wondering if anyone knew if the n810 will be able to hold a miniSD internally without having it sticking out?  Or would you need the microSD to do that?
Nov 19 17:29:45 <johntokash> linuxkrn, the minisd card will not stick out
Nov 19 17:29:54 <sp3000> heh, I knew that photo would mislead someone :)
Nov 19 17:30:02 <johntokash> if you use a microsd card, you'll need to put it in a minisd adapter
Nov 19 17:30:24 <linuxkrn> ah, couldn't tell from specs if it would hold the entire mini card.
Nov 19 17:30:31 <johntokash> typically, microsd cards come with an SD adapter, so be careful if you are buying micro sd
Nov 19 17:30:38 <linuxkrn> so if I read them correctly, it supports 4 mini SD cards?
Nov 19 17:30:44 <johntokash> no
Nov 19 17:30:48 <johntokash> 1 mini sd card
Nov 19 17:30:51 <johntokash> up to 4 gigabytes
Nov 19 17:31:12 <johntokash> (although, I hear it will work with an 8gb micro sdhc in a mini sd adapter)
Nov 19 17:31:14 <linuxkrn> nah, it says 8 GB supported, and I was sure I read it had 4 slots
Nov 19 17:31:26 <johntokash> trust me: 1 slot
Nov 19 17:31:42 <linuxkrn> Supports cards up to 8GB. (SD cards over 2GB must be SDHC compatible.)
Nov 19 17:32:03 <linuxkrn> hum
Nov 19 17:32:20 <linuxkrn> well I can't even find 8gb miniSD cards. :-/
Nov 19 17:32:21 <gla55_> one slot, http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N810
Nov 19 17:32:59 <johntokash> I, too, have not found an 8gb miniSD card.  You can use an 8gb microsd card in a minisd slot, but I think those are only class 2, so slow.
Nov 19 17:33:27 <johntokash> newegg has a class 6 4gb minisd(hc) card.  I ordered that
Nov 19 17:33:37 <linuxkrn> yeah, that's the biggest I can find
Nov 19 17:34:38 <linuxkrn> but the card won't extrude from the n810 (miniSD) right?
Nov 19 17:35:43 <linuxkrn> I assume most of that 2GB internal storage is going to be taken by maps, any idea how much?
Nov 19 17:36:25 <johntokash> I've been told 1.5GB if you have all of US installed
Nov 19 17:36:40 <K`zan> Dunno, but the Maps for western US was 868MB, dunno how MaemoMapper works out yet.
Nov 19 17:36:48 <johntokash> This is the 4GB I bought: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134518
Nov 19 17:37:00 <K`zan> Maps - the app that came with the 810
Nov 19 17:37:09 <johntokash> Note the 'class 6' under specifications.  Fast!
Nov 19 17:37:13 <linuxkrn> johntokash: same one I was looking at
Nov 19 17:37:43 <linuxkrn> So then the 810 comes with a CD of maps and you install what you need?
Nov 19 17:38:29 <linuxkrn> because I'd love to have both America and Asia-Pacific, maybe on different cards if that's possible
Nov 19 17:40:32 <linuxkrn> wow, no ogg (vorbis) audio support.  That's a bit surprising
Nov 19 17:40:55 <johntokash> linuxkrn: I read somewhere that ogg was supported.  Maybe just in the libraries
Nov 19 17:41:50 <linuxkrn> well I can't wait to test it out, have a pre-order so won't know until buy.com ships.  Didn't get approved for the n810 dev program. :(
Nov 19 17:42:15 <linuxkrn> No one else has them in stock yet, do they?
Nov 19 17:42:27 <Andy80> why HildonFileChooserDialog is not listed in the API docs? --> http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/hildon/ix01.html
Nov 19 17:43:05 <johntokash> linuxkrn: As far as I know, the only place that has them in stock is the Nokia stores in Chicago and New York.
Nov 19 17:43:29 * linuxkrn debates driving 18 hours to get one. :p
Nov 19 17:51:17 <lardman> linuxkrn: you download the maps you need, but I think it should come pre-installed on a per-area basis
Nov 19 17:51:25 <linuxkrn> specs don't say, but I assume it's a single touch screen, not multi.  Correct?
Nov 19 17:51:34 <lardman> dunno
Nov 19 17:51:40 <linuxkrn> lardman: download from nokia website?
Nov 19 17:51:53 <lardman> I've no idea where they are downloaded from, just that they are
Nov 19 17:52:00 <bstock_> are the 810's for sale yet?
Nov 19 17:52:12 <lardman> linuxkrn: the maps application does the downloading for you
Nov 19 17:52:45 <linuxkrn> lardman: ah, I see.  You wouldn't know about region restrictions would ya? :)
Nov 19 17:52:59 <lardman> linuxkrn: No, sorry
Nov 19 17:52:59 <linuxkrn> bstock_: buy.com has them for pre-order
Nov 19 17:53:30 <linuxkrn> lardman: no problem.  Just wondering.
Nov 19 17:53:53 <lardman> take a look on itt, people have been experimenting with the N800 OS2008 image
Nov 19 17:54:02 <Tak> I would be amazed if they were multitouch
Nov 19 17:54:15 <linuxkrn> Tak: one can hope. :)
Nov 19 17:54:44 <linuxkrn> so much information on the net seems wrong, I've seen everything from onboard FM *transmitter* to 4x miniSD slots (32GB max)
Nov 19 17:55:45 <bill20r3> wait, it doesn't have lasers?
Nov 19 17:55:45 <linuxkrn> I'm still not clear on the on-board memory.  It says "Max User Storage: 2GB", does that mean it comes with a 2GB miniSD card?
Nov 19 17:57:25 <linuxkrn> bill20r3: only sharks have lasers, duh. :)
Nov 19 18:00:17 <Tak> multitouch lasers
Nov 19 18:00:25 <lardman> or genetically mutated seabass iirc
Nov 19 18:00:39 <Tak> for ripping multiple sectors of a CD in parallel
Nov 19 18:00:56 <linuxkrn> Just wait for the n950, it will have a neural interface.
Nov 19 18:01:33 <Jaffa> bergie: any comment on how long "a while" is on #2321? I've got an updated bugzilla count in my karma now, but everything else is still blank
Nov 19 18:02:34 <ol_schoola> linuxkrn: trust us. it has 2Gig onboard (inside, not removeable) and a miniSD slot. got it?
Nov 19 18:03:30 <linuxkrn> ol_schoola: um, I only asked about the internal storage once.
Nov 19 18:03:42 <linuxkrn> internal meaning on-board
Nov 19 18:04:41 <linuxkrn> and in any event, no need to be rude.
Nov 19 18:05:11 <ol_schoola> sorry, short fuse IRL at the moment, just re-read the logs again, my bad. apo9logize for the co9llateral damage
Nov 19 18:06:28 <ol_schoola> if it helps, i'm in chicago
Nov 19 18:06:45 <linuxkrn> Did you get a n810 already?
Nov 19 18:06:57 <ol_schoola> no, my 800 arrived last week
Nov 19 18:07:30 <linuxkrn> ah, the 800 supports os2008 too, if I recall correctly
Nov 19 18:07:41 <ol_schoola> mine seems to ;)
Nov 19 18:07:42 <keesj> yep
Nov 19 18:08:05 <lardman> kills battery though
Nov 19 18:08:10 <ol_schoola> i do miss all the application goodness of '07, even after only a week
Nov 19 18:08:16 <linuxkrn> can you download the os2008 and run it on the sdk?
Nov 19 18:08:22 <ol_schoola> and battery has been raped, yes
Nov 19 18:08:42 <linuxkrn> ol_schoola: doesn't the 810 have LCD brightness features missing on the 800
Nov 19 18:08:48 <lardman> ol_schoola: turning off the scrolling rss makes responsiveness better
Nov 19 18:08:48 <keesj> is there some warez site whern I can download it2008?
Nov 19 18:08:54 <K`zan> One more app in the 2008 repos than there was yesterday :-)
Nov 19 18:08:59 <lardman> keesj: Look at ITT
Nov 19 18:09:28 <ol_schoola> lardman: rss scrolling? i'm draeing a blank
Nov 19 18:09:39 <ol_schoola> drawing
Nov 19 18:09:40 <lardman> the applet
Nov 19 18:09:54 <lardman> on the main screen, but if you've disabled it anyway then don;t worry
Nov 19 18:09:55 <ol_schoola> oh, it's gone, killed right at the start
Nov 19 18:10:15 <K`zan> I stand corrected - 2 more :-)
Nov 19 18:10:15 * lardman needs to reboot to Linux, brb
Nov 19 18:10:29 <ol_schoola> the touch algos are definately WAY different then the las release of boara i noticed
Nov 19 18:10:33 <ol_schoola> bora
Nov 19 18:11:58 <ol_schoola> i'm certainly willing to trade battery time for the cpu bump
Nov 19 18:20:23 <K`zan> w
Nov 19 18:20:50 <lophyte> ey all
Nov 19 18:24:49 <lardman> anyone happen to know what __arch_copy_to_user() is now called?
Nov 19 18:24:57 <lardman> undefined kernel symbol
Nov 19 18:41:03 <lardman> Could someone running OS2007 on an n800 tell me whether this gives any output please?: cat /proc/kallsyms | grep arch_copy
Nov 19 18:41:15 <Atarii> stupid nokia 810 walkthrough, i should never have watched it, now i want one sooooo bad!
Nov 19 18:42:08 <lardman> :)
Nov 19 18:42:54 * lardman keeps checking the Nokia online shop on the off chance they're available yet... :)
Nov 19 18:43:24 <Atarii> worst thing is, now is probably the best time to sell my 770; just before christmas and when they are still worth an average amount
Nov 19 18:43:40 <linuxkrn> I'm installing the sdk (it's downloading atm), does it include os2008 in the sdk?
Nov 19 18:43:57 <lardman> no, you have to look on itt if you want to see that info
Nov 19 18:44:24 <lophyte> how much are the 810s going for?
Nov 19 18:44:33 <linuxkrn> 450 at buy.com
Nov 19 18:44:33 <lardman> they're not yet
Nov 19 18:44:48 <linuxkrn> 479 from nokia, IIRC
Nov 19 18:44:54 <lophyte> ugh...
Nov 19 18:44:56 <lophyte> should've waited
Nov 19 18:45:13 <lophyte> I paid 299 for my 800 from Dell
Nov 19 18:45:20 <lophyte> 2 days later they were down to 248
Nov 19 18:45:22 <lophyte> 249, rather
Nov 19 18:45:38 <linuxkrn> http://www.buy.com/prod/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet-Full-Pull-out-QWERTY-Keyboard/q/loc/101/206228943.html
Nov 19 18:48:22 <linuxkrn> crap, it wants my 12digit product id to download os2008. :(
Nov 19 18:50:34 <mgedmin> yup
Nov 19 18:50:41 <mgedmin> you can find it in control panel -> device -> about
Nov 19 18:50:51 <mgedmin> it's the same as the wifi mac address, fwiw
Nov 19 18:50:56 <linuxkrn> don't have my 810 yet (pre-ordered)
Nov 19 18:51:02 <lardman> assuming you have an n810 that is
Nov 19 18:51:31 <mgedmin> are the n810s available in the US yet?
Nov 19 18:51:51 <linuxkrn> I was told they are in nokia stores, and pre-order at some websites
Nov 19 18:52:29 <linuxkrn> otherwise, the ETA listed on a few sites is 24-26th of this month
Nov 19 18:52:54 <lardman> :) my kernel module symbol redefinitions appear to have worked, now to try insmod....
Nov 19 18:54:03 <linuxkrn> so without a n810, I can I do any dev work in the sdk?
Nov 19 18:54:25 <mgedmin> yes
Nov 19 18:54:33 <mgedmin> you don't need the OS image for the SDK
Nov 19 18:57:05 <mariorz_> i just got a770, you guys recommend i upgrade to os2007?
Nov 19 19:00:40 <lophyte> is it possible to write statusbar applets in python?
Nov 19 19:01:49 <Tak> mariorz_: I would
Nov 19 19:01:55 <Tak> heh - actually, I did
Nov 19 19:02:05 <Atarii> same here
Nov 19 19:02:17 <Atarii> now looking into gettin flash 9 working (groan!)
Nov 19 19:04:16 <mariorz_> Tak: cool, will do,is it imortant i get another card to do the dual boot or,just gomwith 2007?
Nov 19 19:05:05 <mariorz_> its stable fromwhat ive been rading, no?
Nov 19 19:05:18 <X-Fade> lardman: And? Did it work? :)
Nov 19 19:05:36 <Tak> I run mine directly on the device; your mileage may vary
Nov 19 19:05:52 <Tak> if you don't like it, you can always reflash the latest OS2006
Nov 19 19:06:05 <mariorz_> cool
Nov 19 19:07:46 <linuxkrn> looks like someone did a ogg package for 2008, but doesn't add support to built in player.  I assume maybe ukmp or kagu might play them then.
Nov 19 19:09:24 <sxpert> about the N810, is it possible to get it with a US keyboard ? I don't want a stupid azerty french keyboard :-(
Nov 19 19:10:36 <X-Fade> sxpert: I think if you talk to the Nokia direct guys, you can..
Nov 19 19:10:51 <sxpert> ah.
Nov 19 19:11:09 <sxpert> cause I am one of the happy few, and would like the US keyboard :-)
Nov 19 19:11:30 <sxpert> 'cept I'm obviously registered as fr...
Nov 19 19:11:33 <X-Fade> sxpert: Hehe, I can't blame you.
Nov 19 19:13:01 <linuxkrn> need a nes emulator for the 810, is might port it if no-one else is working on it.
Nov 19 19:13:33 <mariorz_> would it be possible to run android on this things or am i talking nonsense?
Nov 19 19:14:09 <gla55_> mariorz_: possibly
Nov 19 19:14:26 <linuxkrn> Can 2008 run older OS apps?
Nov 19 19:17:03 <bedboi> hi there.
Nov 19 19:17:17 <bedboi> is there any hildon widget for "yes" "no" dialogs?
Nov 19 19:17:34 <bedboi> like gpe_ask_question
Nov 19 19:19:21 <Atarii> bought a retractable charger today for my 770 from poundland, win!
Nov 19 19:20:45 <linuxkrn> not sure what the car chargers go for, but I usually make them.  Cost about $7-10 in parts.
Nov 19 19:20:57 <Tak> linuxkrn: there's fceu already - http://garage.maemo.org/projects/xmame
Nov 19 19:21:19 <linuxkrn> Tak: that's "arcade" games, not NES
Nov 19 19:21:41 <Tak> xmame is, but fceu is nes
Nov 19 19:21:50 <penguinbait> fceu is NES
Nov 19 19:22:12 <linuxkrn> ah, you just linked to xmame. :)
Nov 19 19:22:16 <Tak> they share a garage project
Nov 19 19:22:17 <penguinbait> last I tried very slow, but it was a long time ago
Nov 19 19:24:28 <linuxkrn> can't imagen why, NES was like 8bit 2Mhz processor. lol
Nov 19 19:25:56 <penguinbait> I think because nobody optimizes code anymore, the buy faster processors
Nov 19 19:26:07 <linuxkrn> very true
Nov 19 19:27:48 <tigert> embedded makes people think again
Nov 19 19:27:55 <czr> penguinbait, that's because no one appreciates fast code :-)
Nov 19 19:28:01 <tigert> although I bet it has a big impact on battery life on laptops too
Nov 19 19:28:09 <tigert> depending what apps actually do all the time
Nov 19 19:28:14 <czr> idle
Nov 19 19:28:23 <tigert> or loop, fast
Nov 19 19:28:29 <tigert> as many do
Nov 19 19:28:30 <czr> or execute inefficient algorithms or 20 functions deep callchains (GTK+)
Nov 19 19:28:40 <tigert> yeah
Nov 19 19:28:49 <tigert> or check if all the icons are still there :)
Nov 19 19:28:55 <czr> and fail.. :-)
Nov 19 19:29:11 <czr> tigert, you want to fix my problem with task navigator? :-)
Nov 19 19:29:21 <tigert> what is that?
Nov 19 19:29:26 <linuxkrn> the 810 is a 400Mhz arm cpu right?
Nov 19 19:29:36 <mariorz_> what do you guys wrte apps for this in? python?
Nov 19 19:29:37 <penguinbait> 800 and 810 same CPU
Nov 19 19:29:42 <mariorz_> mostly
Nov 19 19:29:44 <czr> tigert, bug 2313
Nov 19 19:29:44 <_Monkey> Bug 2313 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2313
Nov 19 19:29:53 <penguinbait> 388 bogomips
Nov 19 19:29:55 <penguinbait> :)
Nov 19 19:30:05 <czr> linuxkrn, OS2008 will run the CPU at 400 max
Nov 19 19:30:09 <czr> both N800 and N810
Nov 19 19:30:27 <czr> penguinbait, low battery? :-)
Nov 19 19:30:41 <penguinbait> my tabletpc is 3194 bogomips
Nov 19 19:30:49 <tigert> kaltsi: ping? :)
Nov 19 19:30:50 <linuxkrn> czr: but that cpu?  Specs: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N810 don't say
Nov 19 19:30:53 <czr> very bogoful :-)
Nov 19 19:31:00 <czr> linuxkrn, omap 2420, same as n800
Nov 19 19:31:14 <kaltsi> pong?
Nov 19 19:31:22 <linuxkrn> czr: thanks, do we have spec sheets for supported instruction sets?
Nov 19 19:31:31 <tigert> czr: wow
Nov 19 19:31:34 <czr> ARMv6
Nov 19 19:31:39 <tigert> kaltsi: #2313
Nov 19 19:31:43 <czr> plus vfp and something else
Nov 19 19:31:45 <tigert> see above
Nov 19 19:31:45 <Tak> mariorz_: c, python, ruby
Nov 19 19:31:53 <penguinbait> thumb
Nov 19 19:32:05 <penguinbait> vfp and thumb
Nov 19 19:32:08 <kaltsi> tigert ah yeah.. eek
Nov 19 19:32:15 <tigert> yea, weird
Nov 19 19:32:18 <lardman> linuxkrn: there's a manual on the arm site
Nov 19 19:32:30 <czr> linuxkrn, ARM1136 core with TMS320C55x DSP
Nov 19 19:32:35 <penguinbait> anyone use thumb?
Nov 19 19:32:43 <czr> penguinbait, I use mine every day :-)
Nov 19 19:32:46 <tigert> man, I need to fix plankton now that the os2008 screenshots are public
Nov 19 19:32:54 <czr> kaltsi, tigert, you can thank me later :-)
Nov 19 19:33:30 <czr> kaltsi, tigert, also, since you're in a helpful and receptive mood, bug 2322 :-)
Nov 19 19:33:31 <_Monkey> Bug 2322 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2322
Nov 19 19:33:39 <mariorz_> Tak: cool, been wanting to peak up ruby, ruby+gtk?
Nov 19 19:33:41 <kaltsi> I'm grumpy and old
Nov 19 19:33:41 <czr> although fixing that would require re-engineering something :-)
Nov 19 19:33:47 <tigert> czr: I am in post-taxfree mood
Nov 19 19:33:54 <tigert> czr: gin and toblerone
Nov 19 19:33:55 <czr> tigert, I pity you fool!
Nov 19 19:33:56 <tigert> ewkk
Nov 19 19:33:58 <tigert> :)
Nov 19 19:33:59 <czr> unless I get some too :-)
Nov 19 19:34:08 <tigert> I think I need to stop consuming one of these
Nov 19 19:34:10 <tigert> they dont quite mix
Nov 19 19:34:16 <tigert> :)
Nov 19 19:34:19 <czr> heh. you put the toblerone in the gin?
Nov 19 19:34:24 <tigert> no
Nov 19 19:34:44 <Tak> uhh...is that a question? ;-)
Nov 19 19:34:46 <tigert> just eat a bit and it didnt quite taste that great with the other stuff
Nov 19 19:34:58 <czr> Tak, post tax-free as well? :-)
Nov 19 19:35:04 <kaltsi> I bet that hello-world thingy belongs to sdk bugs but the other one doesn't
Nov 19 19:35:21 <czr> kaltsi, I've been too afraid at attempting that on a device
Nov 19 19:35:26 <czr> I could. but..
Nov 19 19:35:36 <mariorz_> tigert: you used to have a homepage with awesome gnome bakgrounds some years ago didnt you?
Nov 19 19:35:41 <czr> the world would explode and dragons fly out of nose and such.
Nov 19 19:36:19 <Tak> czr: I'm missing some context necessary to parse that question.
Nov 19 19:36:29 * Tak stupid american
Nov 19 19:36:35 <czr> Tak, what kind of context would you like?
Nov 19 19:36:43 <czr> I have red and blue context available. blue is slightly used.
Nov 19 19:36:44 <tigert> mariorz_: yeah
Nov 19 19:36:52 <lardman> aarg, another Unknown symbol error
Nov 19 19:36:55 <penguinbait> I dont know what I am missing, but it appears to be alot :)
Nov 19 19:37:11 <tigert> mariorz_: I think they could be found from archive.org?
Nov 19 19:37:12 <Tak> I will have transparent context or nothing!
Nov 19 19:37:13 <kaltsi> who writes bug reports like that?.. where's the old: "NOTIFICATION DONT WORK!".. I miss those
Nov 19 19:37:26 <czr> Tak, if blue little used context painted transparent ok?
Nov 19 19:37:37 <czr> kaltsi, I can write that too! :-)
Nov 19 19:37:54 <sxpert> hmm. I installed the newer scratchbox, but I am having issues with it
Nov 19 19:38:01 <lardman> ~lart me for a typo
Nov 19 19:38:02 * infobot sends a legion of lawyers after lardman's head for a typo
Nov 19 19:38:07 <czr> although I have much better idea for the subject "MAEMO 2008 NO WORK"
Nov 19 19:38:28 <Tak> czr: For great context!
Nov 19 19:38:35 <kaltsi> we get signal?
Nov 19 19:38:36 <czr> heh tak
Nov 19 19:38:57 <czr> "catching the great signal from the sky"
Nov 19 19:39:11 <lardman> Nokia-N800-:/home/user# lsmod
Nov 19 19:39:11 <lardman> Module                  Size  Used by
Nov 19 19:39:11 <lardman> pvr 71828 0 - Live 0xbf058000 (PF)
Nov 19 19:39:12 <lardman> g_file_storage 27528 0 - Live 0xbf050000
Nov 19 19:39:12 <lardman> cx3110x 56200 0 - Live 0xbf041000
Nov 19 19:39:13 <lardman> umac 258788 1 cx3110x, Live 0xbf000000 (P)
Nov 19 19:39:15 <czr> people seem all too jolly in mood tonight. what's wrong with you?
Nov 19 19:39:18 <lardman> note the first line
Nov 19 19:39:24 <X-Fade> lardman: Sweet ;)
Nov 19 19:39:25 <mariorz_> tigert: cool, loved those, used to keep my dektop synced to your screenshot lol, alas moved to osx for desktop
Nov 19 19:39:30 <czr> lardman, oo
Nov 19 19:39:39 <X-Fade> lardman: Now how to test if is does anything :)
Nov 19 19:40:04 <lardman> it's a good question
Nov 19 19:40:05 <lardman> :)
Nov 19 19:40:06 <czr> modprobe -r? :-)
Nov 19 19:40:11 <sxpert> trying to install the sdk gives
Nov 19 19:40:12 <czr> it it bricks the device -> for great context.
Nov 19 19:40:12 <Tak> so...has anyone tried fceu or xmame on chinook?
Nov 19 19:40:19 <sxpert> E: Scratchbox home directory '/scratchbox/users/sxpert/home/sxpert' not found.
Nov 19 19:40:19 <sxpert> E: Add user with '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser sxpert'.
Nov 19 19:40:19 <sxpert> E: Specify an alternative installation path using '-s PATH' option.
Nov 19 19:40:36 <lardman> czr: what does -r do?
Nov 19 19:40:40 <czr> lardman, remove
Nov 19 19:40:59 <Tak> someone set up us the brick
Nov 19 19:41:04 <lardman> no dev entry created
Nov 19 19:41:17 <sxpert> I have run the sbox_adduser thing, which in turns fscks up my environment (unable to create a new term)
Nov 19 19:41:20 <czr> lardman, how do you know?
Nov 19 19:41:21 <linuxkrn> bah, scratchbox add_user doesn't work on gentoo.
Nov 19 19:41:25 <czr> lardman, cat /proc/devices ?
Nov 19 19:41:34 <sxpert> seems to fail on debian too
Nov 19 19:41:51 <tigert> mariorz_: yeah, osx here too
Nov 19 19:41:57 <tigert> mariorz_: though ubuntu at work
Nov 19 19:42:05 <lardman> czr: no, nothing there
Nov 19 19:42:13 <lardman> czr: Should be /dev/pvr I think
Nov 19 19:42:48 <X-Fade> lardman: That should be make with mknod perhaps? You would need the major and minor though..
Nov 19 19:42:56 <czr> lardman, hmm. if the device driver doesn't expose stuff using sysfs, no udev entry will be created. but you should see stuff under /proc/devices if it registers any char or block device structures from the kernel
Nov 19 19:43:11 <czr> X-Fade, if the driver is not listed in /proc/devices, no mknod will help
Nov 19 19:43:15 <lardman> it shares some memory
Nov 19 19:43:32 <czr> maybe it's a pure mailbox driver? weird though. not to have a device entry
Nov 19 19:43:51 <czr> lardman, does it have any parameters? modinfo?
Nov 19 19:44:24 <czr> also, maybe it's probing failed but it forgot to tell the module linker about it.
Nov 19 19:44:28 <lardman> not sure, but it is alive and useful data is returned in /sys/module/pvr/initstate
Nov 19 19:44:44 <czr> weird
Nov 19 19:45:32 <bedboi> so regarding the question i posed some minute ago, anyone knows if there's a hildon dialog to handle yes/no questions?
Nov 19 19:46:05 <kaltsi> I'll try to repeat 232
Nov 19 19:46:07 <kaltsi> 232
Nov 19 19:46:10 <czr> you could just use hildonbanner to tell the user "this IS what you want to do" :-)
Nov 19 19:46:14 <sxpert> apparently it doesn't like being installed from X
Nov 19 19:46:17 <kaltsi> 2313 that is
Nov 19 19:46:26 <czr> kaltsi, cool.
Nov 19 19:46:30 <czr> tell me if you need help :-)
Nov 19 19:46:49 <X-Fade> lardman: what does it say in /sys/module/pvr/initstate ?
Nov 19 19:46:56 <czr> 4.0 sdk install, nothing interesting. AF up and running, then apt-get remove and watch and enjoy.
Nov 19 19:47:41 <K`zan> Where is the stuff in the My Selection menu hidden at?  Possibly one thing in there I would want on that menu ;-).
Nov 19 19:47:56 <lardman> anyone know what these are (output of cat /proc/devices): sticon vcs /dev/vc/0 ?
Nov 19 19:48:09 <lardman> X-Fade: live
Nov 19 19:48:12 <penguinbait> virtual console
Nov 19 19:48:17 <lardman> ah, ok
Nov 19 19:48:21 <X-Fade> lardman: That can't be bad :)
Nov 19 19:48:53 <czr> maybe it's a suggesting to the user to "get a life"
Nov 19 19:48:54 <lardman> no, a reasonable start anyway. Going to have a look at the server library now
Nov 19 19:48:59 <czr> "go ahead, live some!"
Nov 19 19:49:43 <K`zan> Eh, later, errands perhaps I can find it as I wander around :-). bbl
Nov 19 19:49:53 <X-Fade> lardman: And all this with renaming kernel symbols and changing version number in the module?
Nov 19 19:49:59 <linuxkrn> so I've installed scratchbox, tried to login and get "you don't have an active target in scratchbox chroot."  tells me to run sb-menu before continuing. So I tried to run sb-menu and it tells me the same thing.  Any advice?
Nov 19 19:50:31 <X-Fade> lardman: Let me package glx-gears ;)
Nov 19 19:50:33 <lardman> X-Fade: yes
Nov 19 19:50:56 <czr> I can package my old gfx mem benchmark doodler
Nov 19 19:51:04 <lardman> X-Fade: hmm, the user-space side server needs to be up and running, and then the opengl implementation too
Nov 19 19:51:20 <lardman> I wouldn't get your hopes up yet
Nov 19 19:52:15 <X-Fade> lardman: But is there source for the server?
Nov 19 19:52:16 <lardman> libsrv_um_1.1.33.313.so: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (ARM), not stripped
Nov 19 19:52:28 <linuxkrn> http://pastebin.ca/784629
Nov 19 19:53:18 <lardman> how does one tell the abi?
Nov 19 19:54:48 <X-Fade> lardman: My tar in scratchbox looks about the same ;)
Nov 19 19:55:04 <lardman> I know, I just checked a binary in mine
Nov 19 19:55:20 <lardman> I'll try the good old try it and see technique :)
Nov 19 19:55:32 <X-Fade> Ah the segfaulty one..
Nov 19 19:56:33 <czr> also known as the brute force technique.
Nov 19 19:56:42 <czr> or solution to the infinite monkeys dilemma.
Nov 19 19:57:25 <sxpert> ok. the solution to the issues with the installer is to install from a text console
Nov 19 19:57:48 <sxpert> aka out of X
Nov 19 19:57:50 <suihkulokki> lardman: objdump -x foo|grep EABI
Nov 19 19:59:19 <lardman> suihkulokki: thanks
Nov 19 20:00:14 <lardman> with the monkey test: ./power_test produces -sh: file: not found
Nov 19 20:01:33 <kulve> no file command on the device
Nov 19 20:01:34 <lardman> nothing EABI or even ABI related from objdump
Nov 19 20:01:58 <lardman> kulve: why would it want file?
Nov 19 20:02:09 <kulve> Nokia-N800-26:~# file
Nov 19 20:02:09 <kulve> -sh: file: not found
Nov 19 20:02:29 <lardman> Nokia-N800-:/home/user/pvr# ./xegltest
Nov 19 20:02:34 <lardman> -sh: ./xegltest: not found
Nov 19 20:02:39 <czr> ldd ?
Nov 19 20:02:40 <_Monkey> ldd is to show shared libraries used by a program.  On the tablets you can use: alias ldd="/lib/ld-2.3.6.so --list" and then type ldd /path/to/executeable as an equivalent
Nov 19 20:02:41 <lardman> must have copied the wrong line, sorry
Nov 19 20:03:05 <lardman> no ldd on the device either is there
Nov 19 20:03:22 <czr> you can run the .so directly as _Monkey says
Nov 19 20:03:52 <kulve> or: /lib/ld-linux.so.3  --list /bin/busybox
Nov 19 20:03:54 <czr> lardman, or use this: LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 foo
Nov 19 20:04:34 <lardman> Can I set LD_LIBRARY_PATH (it doesn't currently) exist
Nov 19 20:04:45 <lardman> or will I then have to add the default paths on to it?
Nov 19 20:04:52 <czr> no. it extends the defaults
Nov 19 20:05:00 <lardman> cool
Nov 19 20:05:13 <czr> I'm 99% sure it does ;-)
Nov 19 20:05:18 <kulve> it does
Nov 19 20:05:29 <czr> indeed.
Nov 19 20:05:33 * czr just tested
Nov 19 20:06:04 <lardman> right, here is comes (6 lines or so):
Nov 19 20:06:11 <lardman> Nokia-N800-:/home/user/pvr# /lib/ld-linux.so.3 --list ./power_test
Nov 19 20:06:11 <lardman> ./power_test: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.0' not found (required by ./power_test)
Nov 19 20:06:11 <lardman> ./power_test: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.1' not found (required by /home/user/pvr/libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so)
Nov 19 20:06:12 <lardman> ./power_test: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.0' not found (required by /home/user/pvr/libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so)
Nov 19 20:06:12 <lardman>         libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so => /home/user/pvr/libsrv_um_1.1.33.561.so (0x40004000)
Nov 19 20:06:15 <lardman>         libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x41220000)
Nov 19 20:06:16 <lardman>         libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0x41028000)
Nov 19 20:06:18 <lardman>         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.3 (0x2a000000)
Nov 19 20:06:38 <czr> hmm. you could force the glibc compatibility thingies. somehow.
Nov 19 20:07:01 <lardman> if anyone knows how I'm all ears
Nov 19 20:07:06 <czr> me too
Nov 19 20:07:14 <lardman> or is it a hexeditor job?
Nov 19 20:07:29 <czr> well, that would do the trick too I guess, but I'm sure there's some more intelligent way
Nov 19 20:07:43 <czr> but you could try hexing it
Nov 19 20:07:48 <zuh> Maybe get the libc env from where ever the other binaries come from?
Nov 19 20:07:59 <lardman> ah yes
Nov 19 20:08:00 <zuh> LD_LIBRARY_PATH and so on
Nov 19 20:08:18 <lardman> I'm already doing the LD_LIBRARY_PATH thing so that sounds like it might work
Nov 19 20:09:03 <suihkulokki> 22:06 < lardman>         /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.3 (0x2a000000)
Nov 19 20:09:10 <suihkulokki> you are smoking crack
Nov 19 20:09:36 <lardman> why's that?
Nov 19 20:09:57 <czr> incompatible ABI?
Nov 19 20:10:22 <suihkulokki> you are linking a oldabi linker to newabi linker
Nov 19 20:10:22 <czr> although I don't think the ld-linux version really signifies broken backward compatibility.
Nov 19 20:10:43 <lardman> not my doing, and in fact that file doens't exist
Nov 19 20:11:19 <czr> kaltsi, how goes it?
Nov 19 20:11:38 <suihkulokki> hmhm. maybe that's something due to using /lib/ld-linux.so.3 from command line
Nov 19 20:11:43 <kaltsi> czr I confirmed it
Nov 19 20:11:49 <suihkulokki> lardman: you need a oldabi chroot
Nov 19 20:11:55 <czr> kaltsi, great. any clue as to what causes it/them?
Nov 19 20:12:02 <lardman> suihkulokki: yep, not so great
Nov 19 20:12:50 <kaltsi> czr nope .. don't know the way this thing works.. now I'm just trying to grep everywhere to find entries with hello-world after the removal so that I could somehow get a clue :)
Nov 19 20:13:14 <czr> kaltsi, the package dep thingy is not really an issue I think (just read your append to the bug)
Nov 19 20:13:27 <czr> something breaks in the way that TN/AF does things
Nov 19 20:13:35 <Tak> is d.m.o currently hosed?
Nov 19 20:13:46 <czr> I could find any place where the menu was replicated though. used some time to grep for it too, but nada.
Nov 19 20:13:52 <kaltsi> czr yep.. but maybe it's one of those packages postrm scripts
Nov 19 20:13:56 <czr> kaltsi, yup
Nov 19 20:14:32 <kaltsi> something still tries to load the hello-world.png even though it's removed.. that's why I'm trying to grep for that
Nov 19 20:14:51 <czr> could be anything really. statusbar.conf goes "latkimaan" as well
Nov 19 20:14:57 <czr> "hildon-desktop[7116]: GLIB DEBUG default - NAO OK!"
Nov 19 20:15:04 <czr> maybe that is a helpful clue ;-)
Nov 19 20:15:16 <Tak> lolwtf
Nov 19 20:15:16 <kaltsi> I wonder what NAO means :)
Nov 19 20:15:21 * czr shrugs
Nov 19 20:15:24 <czr> it sounds powerful
Nov 19 20:15:36 <Tak> IT CAN BE GLIB TIME NAO PLZ?
Nov 19 20:15:41 <czr> heh
Nov 19 20:16:20 <czr> all your icons are belong to the context.
Nov 19 20:18:07 <kaltsi> removing ~/.osso made one of those TN icons go away
Nov 19 20:18:29 <kaltsi> but the other still wants hello-world.png
Nov 19 20:20:38 <kaltsi> and it doesn't complain about the NAO either
Nov 19 20:21:11 <czr> but nao is good. nao = brain in chinese
Nov 19 20:21:17 <czr> nao ok! = positive
Nov 19 20:21:29 <kaltsi> hee
Nov 19 20:25:05 <kaltsi> does anyone know how an application gets to the TN menu, like now TN->extras->hello world ?
Nov 19 20:25:18 <czr>  /usr/share/applications/
Nov 19 20:25:56 <czr> and hildon under there
Nov 19 20:26:15 <kaltsi> ok the hello-world.desktop is still there
Nov 19 20:26:16 <czr> there used to be another way as well, hmm. just removed it yesterday, I wonder what it was.
Nov 19 20:26:21 <czr> ok
Nov 19 20:27:04 <kaltsi> the postinst copies it there but the postrm doesn't remove it
Nov 19 20:27:20 <czr>  /etc/others-menu/extra_applications/
Nov 19 20:27:36 <czr> might contain a symlink to the desktop file as well. it shouldn't be used anymore, but some of your docs include it still
Nov 19 20:27:37 <kaltsi> there's only maemopad
Nov 19 20:27:40 <czr> ok
Nov 19 20:34:19 <kaltsi> hm is there a good app that I can install and remove cleanly and which also installs an icon to TN?
Nov 19 20:34:27 <kaltsi> I wanna spy how it's done properly :)
Nov 19 20:34:53 <czr> hmm. mine uses stock icon and goes directly under extras, so doesn't quality
Nov 19 20:35:03 <czr> maemopad doesn't install it either. hmm
Nov 19 20:35:34 <kaltsi> grr I don't like wider than 80 char code
Nov 19 20:36:28 <kaltsi> is this documented somewhere btw? :)
Nov 19 20:36:30 <czr> "file a bug" :-)
Nov 19 20:36:34 <czr> not to my knowledge
Nov 19 20:36:43 <czr> other than "the hello-world app contains an example"
Nov 19 20:36:50 <kaltsi> graah
Nov 19 20:37:00 <czr> at least the "making application packages" is pretty silent on those
Nov 19 20:38:14 <czr> the quality awareness document skips icons all-together
Nov 19 20:38:39 <jjo> kaltsi: so, what are you working on?
Nov 19 20:39:00 <czr> jjo, 2313
Nov 19 20:39:07 <kaltsi> jjo trying to figure out how to fix hello-world-app's removal.. it leaves the icon behind to /usr/share/applications/hildon/
Nov 19 20:39:31 <kaltsi> I commented my findings on that bug #2313
Nov 19 20:39:32 <_Monkey> Bug 2313 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2313
Nov 19 20:40:15 <jjo> kaltsi: man, you're really dedicated
Nov 19 20:40:36 <kaltsi> heh
Nov 19 20:40:48 <czr> kaltsi, it's weird though. my package removes the desktop file automatically
Nov 19 20:41:01 <czr> no need for preinst/postrm stuff at all
Nov 19 20:41:16 <kaltsi> hmp
Nov 19 20:41:40 <czr> did you try purging it?
Nov 19 20:41:41 <jjo> well it should keep track of files it installs
Nov 19 20:41:47 <czr> maybe it's marked as a configuration file.
Nov 19 20:42:52 <czr> kaltsi, btw, if it only would be an SDK bug, then how would the package behave on a device?
Nov 19 20:42:56 <kaltsi> now when I reinstalled hello world then I get those two TN menus again
Nov 19 20:43:01 <czr> heh
Nov 19 20:43:18 <czr> notice, if you repeat the process, you will not get three, four menus. just only two :-)
Nov 19 20:43:21 <kaltsi> czr hmm dunno.. :)
Nov 19 20:43:27 <czr> I think I should bug about scalability of that bug.
Nov 19 20:43:56 <czr> kaltsi, I could try on the n800, it's time I reflash that sucker anyway
Nov 19 20:44:34 <kaltsi> the purge didn't work either
Nov 19 20:44:45 <kaltsi> in fact it worked worse.. now it can still find the icon
Nov 19 20:44:56 <czr> ok. there's no hello-world-app in the 2008 repos though
Nov 19 20:45:16 <kaltsi> hmm there must be since I'm using those repos
Nov 19 20:45:18 <czr> maybe --purge activated some kind of zombiesque feature in TN
Nov 19 20:45:25 <czr> kaltsi, device ones?
Nov 19 20:46:05 <czr> hmm. which repo?
Nov 19 20:46:05 <_Monkey> well, which repo is it under
Nov 19 20:46:10 <kaltsi> yes it seems to be in ARMEL too.. SDK repo
Nov 19 20:46:55 <czr> hmm. I'll just copy the deb then
Nov 19 20:47:25 <jjo> hmmm... so it installs a file called hello-world.inactive and renames it as hello-world.desktop
Nov 19 20:47:44 <czr> ah. that's why it's not caught on removal automatically
Nov 19 20:47:50 <jjo> no wonder the desktop file isn't removed
Nov 19 20:48:02 <czr> why does it do it via inactive?
Nov 19 20:48:21 <kaltsi> but the bigger problem is why does the TN menu duplicate itself
Nov 19 20:48:46 <czr> it breaks on desktop files which point to something that doesn't anymore exist?
Nov 19 20:49:05 <czr> hmm. the package includes an icon in control, true? maybe that triggers some bad stuff in TN
Nov 19 20:49:15 <czr> cause the icon should be gone at the point when package is already removed
Nov 19 20:51:27 <kaltsi> when I reinstall hello-world-app it really modifies my .osso/hildon-desktop/*.conf files a lot.. removes many lines
Nov 19 20:52:27 <czr> hmm. I don't get the TN icon on the device at all
Nov 19 20:52:34 <czr> I get the statusbar and home applet one. no TN icon
Nov 19 20:52:36 <mariorz_> is it possible to edit a file on the device via emacs+tramp... should i jsut install an ftp server?
Nov 19 20:52:46 <mariorz_> i have open ssh installed alredy
Nov 19 20:53:00 <mariorz_> ala gettting an ftp error
Nov 19 20:53:08 <fysa> ssh into it?
Nov 19 20:53:23 <|R> Anybody know if someone in the 500 winners or somewhere else was planning on packaging asterisk for the n8x0 ? :)
Nov 19 20:53:27 <mariorz_> fysa: sure but how do you edit the files?
Nov 19 20:53:28 <czr> kaltsi, saw my msg?
Nov 19 20:53:35 <czr> kaltsi, I'm going to try removal next
Nov 19 20:53:41 <kaltsi> czr yep saw it
Nov 19 20:53:47 <kaltsi> strange
Nov 19 20:53:54 <fysa> I could use nano/pico/jed on OS2007
Nov 19 20:54:01 <czr> ahhaha
Nov 19 20:54:09 * mariorz_ vomits
Nov 19 20:54:09 <czr> "Unable to uninstall hello-world-app"
Nov 19 20:54:12 <mariorz_> i need emacs
Nov 19 20:54:16 <czr> now this is fine and dandy ;-)
Nov 19 20:54:17 <fysa> apt-cache search emacs
Nov 19 20:54:21 <fysa> :P
Nov 19 20:54:27 <czr> kaltsi, not just an SDK bug
Nov 19 20:54:30 <kaltsi> czr any more specific?
Nov 19 20:54:34 <mariorz_> hmmm good idea :D thx
Nov 19 20:54:39 <fysa> you sure the N800 has enough RAM for emacs? :P
Nov 19 20:54:43 <bill20r3> I have't seen an emacs dist.
Nov 19 20:54:47 <czr> I'll check the log, just a moment. was uninstalling from application manager (same way that I installed)
Nov 19 20:54:50 <mariorz_> haha well im on a 770 so maybe not?
Nov 19 20:54:55 <kaltsi> czr yea but is this just hello-world-app which is broken? that's part of the sdk :)
Nov 19 20:55:02 <mariorz_> but anyway nobody edits files remptely via tramp?
Nov 19 20:55:03 <fysa> it should build relatively easily if you get a dev environment up.
Nov 19 20:55:21 <fysa> never used tramp..
Nov 19 20:55:23 <fysa> use sshfs
Nov 19 20:55:26 <czr> kaltsi, so far. but I can't verify TN brokedness yet
Nov 19 20:55:31 <fysa> or rsync.
Nov 19 20:55:31 * bill20r3 uses vi
Nov 19 20:55:42 <mariorz_> oks thanks
Nov 19 20:55:44 <czr> kaltsi, dpkg/info/hello-world-app.postrm: line 11: syntax error: "(" unexpected
Nov 19 20:55:57 <czr> kaltsi, error processing hello-world-app (--remove)
Nov 19 20:55:59 <czr> and so forth
Nov 19 20:56:06 <kaltsi> czr ahah..
Nov 19 20:56:10 <czr> ahah indeed
Nov 19 20:56:12 <czr> NAO NOT OK!
Nov 19 20:56:14 <kaltsi> czr so it's bashism
Nov 19 20:56:19 <fysa> shouldn't need to mess with FTP
Nov 19 20:56:39 <czr> kaltsi, I'll hackerate myself into the device and check, moment
Nov 19 20:57:00 <kaltsi> probably the ash shell just doesn't understand that syntax
Nov 19 20:57:47 <czr> kaltsi, you mean this: conf=( "home.conf" "statusbar.conf" "tasknavigator.conf" )
Nov 19 20:57:53 <kaltsi> yep
Nov 19 20:57:56 <czr> the script starts with #!/bin/sh. bleh
Nov 19 20:58:13 <czr> I thought Hewlett-Packard was the only house that implemented these bugs
Nov 19 20:58:22 * czr adds Nokia to the list as well
Nov 19 20:58:24 <kaltsi> the shell on the device is ash, not bash.. as you well know
Nov 19 20:58:37 <czr> kaltsi, yes. the script should be marked as /bin/bash. not /bin/sh.
Nov 19 20:58:41 <kaltsi> no-one has probably tried that on the device.. at least not uninstalling :)
Nov 19 20:59:01 <czr> omfg.
Nov 19 20:59:05 <czr> and the reason for the array is..
Nov 19 20:59:06 <czr> this:
Nov 19 20:59:12 <czr> sed "/$home_data/d" $path/${conf[0]} > home_conf.tmp
Nov 19 20:59:19 <czr> mv blah conf[0] blah
Nov 19 20:59:28 <czr> and then repeat the same command for each array entry. not in a loop even
Nov 19 20:59:30 <kaltsi> czr yes or it should be rewritten in sh syntax and fixed anyways
Nov 19 20:59:37 <czr> has anyone heard of 'for'-statement? :-)
Nov 19 21:00:12 <czr> so. any suggestions on how to remove the package? :-)
Nov 19 21:00:24 <kaltsi> modify the postrm under /var something
Nov 19 21:00:35 <czr> yup
Nov 19 21:00:52 <kaltsi> and hope there's no md5sum for it somewhere else :)
Nov 19 21:00:54 <czr> hmm. is there an armel package of nano anywhere?
Nov 19 21:01:01 <kaltsi> yes.. in the same repo
Nov 19 21:01:10 <czr> I doubt dpkg is sophisticated enough to check md5sums on removal
Nov 19 21:01:32 <kaltsi> sdk repo has nano
Nov 19 21:01:34 <czr> eww. but that also pulls in libncurses5w
Nov 19 21:01:40 <kaltsi> well..
Nov 19 21:01:48 <czr> I'll do it my way.
Nov 19 21:01:48 <kaltsi> get nano-tiny then.. it pulls in something else :)
Nov 19 21:02:01 <czr> hah. libslang2 :-)
Nov 19 21:02:05 <mariorz_> micro-emacs ftw!
Nov 19 21:02:37 <kaltsi> mariorz_: plz port emacs to the device.. I'd like that too :)
Nov 19 21:02:50 <mariorz_> kaltsi: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1475
Nov 19 21:03:21 <mariorz_> asl the link for the packages is dead
Nov 19 21:03:56 <czr> kaltsi, somewhat ironic that sed on the device actually supports -i, which makes the whole array thing so so so unnecessary
Nov 19 21:04:14 <kaltsi> mariorz_: ok so it should be possible to take a debian package and just recompile it
Nov 19 21:04:50 <Tak> zile emacs subset is already packaged for maemo
Nov 19 21:05:06 <kaltsi> zile?
Nov 19 21:05:30 <mariorz_> kaltsi: id actually be happy with that tramp patch
Nov 19 21:05:32 <kaltsi> hehe zile is lossy emacs :)
Nov 19 21:05:50 <czr> kaltsi, uninstalled now. leaves the icon in extras
Nov 19 21:06:18 <kaltsi> czr ok well that's a nice and clear bug
Nov 19 21:06:44 <czr> so, device testing shows that: 1) hello-world-app is broken in scripts. 2) for some reason the TN icon doesn't work at all (diff from SDK), 3) the icon is left in place (due to the rename thingy for desktop I guess)
Nov 19 21:06:57 <czr> I haven't tried rebooting the device, but I'd suspect it will come up broken as well.
Nov 19 21:07:07 <czr> all the other .so:s in hello-world-app seemed to work
Nov 19 21:07:25 <czr> kaltsi, I'll append to the bug
Nov 19 21:07:29 <kaltsi> ok
Nov 19 21:11:51 <czr> kaltsi, k
Nov 19 21:12:28 <kaltsi> I got the SDK also to ask for the location
Nov 19 21:12:40 <kaltsi> this was the second time I installed it
Nov 19 21:13:15 <czr> hmm. I've never seen that
Nov 19 21:13:34 <czr> on the SDK I mean
Nov 19 21:13:41 <czr> that's why it was a surprise to see it on the device
Nov 19 21:13:42 <kaltsi> I guess that's when the postinst goes to that maemo-select-menu-location branch
Nov 19 21:14:00 * czr nods, but hasn't really looked at the scripts, other than the postrm
Nov 19 21:14:05 <kaltsi> I don't know how that gets called.. which parameters does it get
Nov 19 21:14:23 <czr> it's silly btw why the applet thingies can't be integrated in any more intelligent way. sedding configuration files? evil.
Nov 19 21:14:46 <czr> and a disaster waiting to happen really
Nov 19 21:14:50 <mariorz_> kaltsi: any linkage on how i would go about recompiling the micro-emacs source tot he device? total noob here
Nov 19 21:14:58 <mariorz_> for the*
Nov 19 21:15:29 <kaltsi> mariorz_: www.maemo.org/development/sdks/ .. you would need to install an SDK
Nov 19 21:15:40 <mariorz_> oks
Nov 19 21:15:58 <mariorz_> oh wait
Nov 19 21:16:08 <kaltsi> for a total noob it can be a bit intimidating but this channel or the maemo-developers mailing list can help :)
Nov 19 21:16:09 <mariorz_> need a linkux desktop for the sdk?
Nov 19 21:16:17 <kaltsi> yes linuks
Nov 19 21:16:22 <mariorz_> :/
Nov 19 21:16:37 <kaltsi> a problem?
Nov 19 21:16:39 <czr> mariorz_, you can also use vmware
Nov 19 21:16:40 * mariorz_ runs an ibook 64 with very little spare HD
Nov 19 21:16:47 <mariorz_> g4
Nov 19 21:17:04 <kaltsi> I run ubuntu in my mac mini with vmware
Nov 19 21:17:29 <kaltsi> but let's see if I could compile emacs.. I can give it a try
Nov 19 21:17:36 <mariorz_> ok ill give it a try then
Nov 19 21:17:37 <kaltsi> but I give up easily
Nov 19 21:17:46 <mariorz_> haha
Nov 19 21:18:13 <mariorz_> i shoudl probably get a new mac book, and run ubuntu on this one
Nov 19 21:18:28 <kaltsi> micro emacs might be a much better idea anyways.. space is limited on the device
Nov 19 21:18:47 <czr> kaltsi, I think I'll let the bug ferment a bit now
Nov 19 21:18:59 <mariorz_> also suppsoedly key combinaions work better for the on screen keyboard
Nov 19 21:19:09 <kaltsi> czr sure.. good hunting so far.. clearly the beast is wounded and the trail will stay fresh :)
Nov 19 21:19:12 <czr> kaltsi, just to see what else will happen to it
Nov 19 21:19:28 <czr> kaltsi, beast or beasts, there might be multiple. travelling in packs. of 20. :_)
Nov 19 21:19:34 <czr> :-) even. for great context.
Nov 19 21:19:51 <czr> kaltsi, the icon does kind of remind one of a beast. the beast of GNU
Nov 19 21:20:22 <kaltsi> as long as it's not a llama
Nov 19 21:20:40 <czr> hmm. that brings back colorful memories :-)
Nov 19 21:20:57 <czr> anyhow, back to proper work now I guess.
Nov 19 21:21:13 <mariorz_> is there a ftp server package?
Nov 19 21:21:15 <czr> it's funny how much time one can spend just debugging/bugging without doing real work at all :-)
Nov 19 21:21:42 <Jiten> debugging/bugging is not real work?
Nov 19 21:21:59 <czr> Jiten, not to me unfortunately.
Nov 19 21:22:04 <kaltsi> mariorz_: ftp server package for what?
Nov 19 21:22:13 <mariorz_> for the device
Nov 19 21:22:17 <czr> Jiten, real work = smt that I get paid for.
Nov 19 21:22:19 <kaltsi> of what? :)
Nov 19 21:22:24 <Jiten> right
Nov 19 21:22:32 <Jiten> so, what do you get paid for?
Nov 19 21:22:40 <mariorz_> im thinking tramp would work if it had a ftp server installed ot connect to?
Nov 19 21:22:45 <mariorz_> 770
Nov 19 21:23:06 <kaltsi> mariorz_: ah sorry .. I thought you were looking for some package from ftp.. but you want "ftp server"-package :)
Nov 19 21:23:18 <mariorz_> k, thanks
Nov 19 21:23:35 <kaltsi> heh.. sorry no I don't know if there is ftp server package
Nov 19 21:24:03 <kaltsi> let's see..
Nov 19 21:24:19 <mariorz_> oh-soh ha
Nov 19 21:24:21 <kaltsi> mariorz_: have you visited this: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2006
Nov 19 21:24:51 <kaltsi> unfortunately there's no ftp server package there.. just an ftp client
Nov 19 21:25:02 <mariorz_> yeah :/
Nov 19 21:25:15 <mariorz_> google's got nothing
Nov 19 21:25:48 <mariorz_> nvm think i found one
Nov 19 21:26:42 <mariorz_> piblicfile
Nov 19 21:26:47 <czr> Jiten, currently working on training material. but in real life I mainly work with high perf scalable algorithms dealing with I/O
Nov 19 21:26:49 <mariorz_> or public rather
Nov 19 21:27:56 <czr> Jiten, and other interesting stuff too. I/O is kind of limiting way of putting it.
Nov 19 21:31:28 <Jiten> I see, that sounds somewhat interesting.
Nov 19 21:32:00 <czr> indeed. infinite ways of doing something, limited number of ways actually are good :-)
Nov 19 21:34:09 <czr> and the bugs are also so much more interesting ;-)
Nov 19 21:37:32 <kaltsi> damn this emacs.. it wants to build in the mail support and there's no simple configure flag to disable that
Nov 19 21:37:54 <czr> kaltsi, <jedi>"you don't want to disable any feature in emacs"</jedi>
Nov 19 21:38:02 <kaltsi> except mail
Nov 19 21:38:14 <czr> kaltsi, <jedi>"not even mail"</jedi>
Nov 19 21:38:37 <kaltsi> well that's true
Nov 19 21:39:09 <czr> <jedi>"told you so"</jedi>
Nov 19 21:39:27 <josephus> <emacs> your mind tricks dont work on me young padawan </emacs>
Nov 19 21:40:03 <czr> <jedi>You're missing a comma there</jedi> :-)
Nov 19 21:40:13 <czr> although, introducing yourself as the object works too :-)
Nov 19 21:40:32 <czr> <nano>squeek squeek</nano>
Nov 19 21:40:33 <josephus> *sighs* too late for you :)
Nov 19 21:40:35 * czr goes slightly crazy
Nov 19 21:40:57 <czr> I blame bug 2312 and 2313 and 2315 and some others too
Nov 19 21:40:58 <_Monkey> Bug 2312 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2312
Nov 19 21:43:05 <czr> hmm. is the recommended way to use emacs within the sdk stiff using emacsclient?
Nov 19 21:49:22 <sp3000> does it work?
Nov 19 21:49:30 <czr> I don't know. it exists at least
Nov 19 21:49:41 * czr is not a friend of emacs
Nov 19 21:49:52 <czr> but the material mentions it. I think it was tsavola who insisted :-)
Nov 19 21:50:44 <timelyx> heh
Nov 19 21:51:02 <czr> vimtutor is also mentioned. don't quite remember who wanted that included too.
Nov 19 21:51:08 <czr> (it also exists in the SDK)
Nov 19 21:51:30 <kaltsi> I'll use this simpler mail program to satisfy emacs: ln -s /scratchbox/tools/bin/true /usr/bin/mail
Nov 19 21:51:51 <czr> ah, the Truemailer
Nov 19 21:52:05 <czr> kaltsi, that satisfies the build? :-)
Nov 19 21:52:10 <kaltsi> strangely I get no spam with that
Nov 19 21:52:12 <timelyx> heh
Nov 19 21:52:27 <kaltsi> czr at least the configure is happy.. now it's building
Nov 19 21:52:29 <czr> kaltsi, I can arrange some. you built uucp yet? ;-)
Nov 19 21:53:18 <czr> "Hello, you might be wondering why I'm sending this email since we've never met. Allow me to introduce myself, I am <bleep>, <mumble> of the recently deceased <bleep>.."
Nov 19 21:53:46 <kaltsi> hehe.. I've only ever got one of those :)
Nov 19 21:54:01 <czr> I think I've learned by heart most of the variations by now :-)
Nov 19 21:54:11 <czr> the sad ones still contain the template fields intact too
Nov 19 21:54:33 <czr> otoh, I'm still waiting for the "100 billion dollars"-one.
Nov 19 21:57:35 <pupnik_> yaay new upstream version of technoballz with optimizatinos for tablet
Nov 19 21:57:46 <czr> technoballz?
Nov 19 21:57:47 <_Monkey> well, technoballz is working!!!
Nov 19 21:58:22 <pupnik> _Monkey: forget technoballz
Nov 19 21:58:23 <_Monkey> pupnik: I forgot technoballz
Nov 19 21:58:45 <czr> yes, but what is it? :-)
Nov 19 21:59:05 <czr> "Its called Technoballz, because its got techno things in it and balls. ..." ?
Nov 19 21:59:06 <pupnik> _Monkey: technoballz is an arkanoid (pong) style game http://pupnik.de/tecnoballz770.html
Nov 19 21:59:07 <_Monkey> OK, pupnik.
Nov 19 21:59:28 <kaltsi> salty chocolate balls
Nov 19 21:59:46 <pupnik> don't download that - new version will be up soon
Nov 19 21:59:55 <czr> pupnik, you're working on that? cool
Nov 19 22:00:20 <pupnik> I'd put it on hold waiting for help from the author, he just mailed me back.
Nov 19 22:00:22 <czr> kaltsi, heh. you might want to add theme package called that to maemo ;-)
Nov 19 22:00:40 <czr> hildon-theme-salty-chocolate-balls
Nov 19 22:00:52 <kaltsi> maybe tigert will do it :)
Nov 19 22:01:07 <czr> heh. pupnik, that your homepage? I really like the background pic
Nov 19 22:02:41 <pupnik> thanks.  it was cleverly shot to not show the mess
Nov 19 22:03:01 <czr> heh
Nov 19 22:03:19 <czr> looks like some lab from C.S.I.
Nov 19 22:03:33 <czr> they always use really weird background colors and unhuman lighting
Nov 19 22:03:51 <czr> although your screens contain way too much text to be C.S.I.
Nov 19 22:06:12 <kaltsi> still compiling emacs
Nov 19 22:06:24 <pupnik> question about the brightness czr - are you viewing the page on tft or crt?
Nov 19 22:06:29 <czr> pupnik, tft
Nov 19 22:06:39 <czr> it's quite dark. works quite well though imho
Nov 19 22:06:49 <czr> the text is bright enough for proper contrast
Nov 19 22:07:01 <czr> pupnik, "you want me to take a screenshot?"
Nov 19 22:07:01 <pupnik> ok it's too dark for my crt, but i figure everyone has tfts now, which show dark colors brighter than crts
Nov 19 22:07:04 <pupnik> haha
Nov 19 22:07:07 <kaltsi> I think internettablettalk is too dark
Nov 19 22:07:25 <czr> yeah, crts are like that. an most pics don't have proper sRGB profiles anyway
Nov 19 22:07:35 <czr> (not that most programs would know what to do with them anyway)
Nov 19 22:07:58 <czr> pupnik, I find the same problem when working with natural sourced stuff as well
Nov 19 22:08:32 <pupnik> yeah i hope displays get more range soon.  8-bits per channel is kind of low imo.  some tvs use 10 bits
Nov 19 22:08:39 <czr> synthetic stuff survives quite nicely both worlds, although CRTs are quite dark still: http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/blob-world-2007/
Nov 19 22:08:48 <czr> I'd like 32-bit float for pixels actually
Nov 19 22:09:01 <czr> per channel I mean. microsoft has a nice lossless but good format for that
Nov 19 22:09:10 <czr> too bad it's mined with patents and all that crap
Nov 19 22:09:10 <lophyte> huh
Nov 19 22:09:29 <lophyte> I tried to rmmod g_file_storage and now its stuck in the "Unloading" state and I can't reset the bloody thing
Nov 19 22:09:51 <czr> lophyte, remove the battery?
Nov 19 22:10:22 <lophyte> good idea :P
Nov 19 22:10:32 <Andy80> hi all!
Nov 19 22:10:49 <Andy80> I've a problem with my profile: http://maemo.org/profile/view/andy80
Nov 19 22:10:58 <Andy80> as you can see, it doesn't exist anymore :(
Nov 19 22:11:01 <Andy80> what happened?
Nov 19 22:11:05 <czr> I removed it
Nov 19 22:11:13 <Andy80> anyone else experienced this problem?
Nov 19 22:11:31 <czr> Andy80, when did it work the last time?
Nov 19 22:11:48 <Andy80> today afternoon
Nov 19 22:12:00 <czr> hmm. wait until tomorrow. maybe it will plop back
Nov 19 22:12:04 <lophyte> ...fuck
Nov 19 22:12:05 <Andy80> (italian local time)
Nov 19 22:12:10 <lophyte> what did I do
Nov 19 22:13:07 <czr> job motivation for tomorrow: http://projectsidewalk.com/flowchart/
Nov 19 22:14:12 <Andy80> :\
Nov 19 22:14:20 <Andy80> I'll chek again tomorrow
Nov 19 22:14:24 <Andy80> good night
Nov 19 22:16:06 <lophyte> eh, are there any clips or anything to remove the battery?
Nov 19 22:16:47 <kaltsi> clips?
Nov 19 22:17:09 <bill20r3> it's just in a 9v holder, behind velco
Nov 19 22:17:15 <kaltsi> just slam it against your hand and it should slip out
Nov 19 22:17:20 <lophyte> I can't get my battery out, I was wondering if there was a clip or something holding it in
Nov 19 22:17:48 <kaltsi> it shouldn't be too hard.. just be sure to pry it from the correct end
Nov 19 22:18:49 <lophyte> the correct end being the end with the pins?
Nov 19 22:18:57 <kaltsi> without the pins :)
Nov 19 22:19:29 <lophyte> damn, its so small I can't get anything in there
Nov 19 22:19:51 <kaltsi> try to hit it against you hand carefully.. it should pop out a bit from that end
Nov 19 22:20:03 <lophyte> ugh.. I think I messed it up
Nov 19 22:20:24 <lophyte> it keeps rebooting... booting up, rebooting... over and over
Nov 19 22:21:05 <lophyte> there, got it out
Nov 19 22:21:06 <kaltsi> well eventually the battery will run out :P
Nov 19 22:21:24 <kaltsi> when you insert the battery back in, put in the end with pins first
Nov 19 22:21:54 <lophyte> yup, got it
Nov 19 22:21:59 <lophyte> let's see if it boots properly not
Nov 19 22:22:01 <lophyte> now*
Nov 19 22:22:11 <lophyte> ....
Nov 19 22:22:14 <lophyte> :\
Nov 19 22:22:31 <lophyte> damn it
Nov 19 22:22:34 <kaltsi> no?
Nov 19 22:22:38 <K`zan> How does one change the "My Selection" stuff on the n800 menu?
Nov 19 22:22:44 <lophyte> nope, still rebooting
Nov 19 22:22:56 <K`zan> Would like to put some useful stuff there :-).
Nov 19 22:23:06 <kaltsi> K`zan: is there a 'panels' thingy in control panel?
Nov 19 22:23:19 <K`zan> Uhm, checking...
Nov 19 22:24:14 <kaltsi> in this N810 it's there and there you can arrange things
Nov 19 22:24:18 <K`zan> kaltsi: :-) thanks, although I am not sure I would have called that a panel, but :-)...
Nov 19 22:24:32 <kaltsi> yea, funny name :)
Nov 19 22:24:35 <lophyte> ITOS needs to be loaded in order for the flasher to work I'd assume
Nov 19 22:25:06 <kaltsi> lophyte no.. just the bootloader or some little thingy from the beginning
Nov 19 22:25:06 <lophyte> ie. there's no low-level software on the device that handles flashing
Nov 19 22:25:36 <lophyte> oi
Nov 19 22:25:47 <lophyte> think I killed it then
Nov 19 22:26:02 <kaltsi> did you try flashing?
Nov 19 22:26:20 <lophyte> no
Nov 19 22:26:43 <gla55_> isn't flashing the standard fix for continuous reboot cycle
Nov 19 22:26:49 <K`zan> Sigh, you have to delete most of that stuff, you can't move it - SUCKO....
Nov 19 22:27:31 <K`zan> Because of that I will not be using any of those...
Nov 19 22:27:34 <lophyte> gla55_, that's what I was asking.. is it possible to flash without ITOS loaded
Nov 19 22:27:40 <lophyte> in which case I'll try flashing it
Nov 19 22:27:46 <kaltsi> K`zan: I can drag & drop things in this n810
Nov 19 22:27:57 <gla55_> you press a button while booting so that it doesnt load the os..
Nov 19 22:27:59 <gla55_> for flashing
Nov 19 22:28:07 <kaltsi> lophyte: I answered that it is possible
Nov 19 22:28:11 <lophyte> ah
Nov 19 22:28:22 <K`zan> How very f'ing nice, you can'e even delete them - what a steaming crock.
Nov 19 22:28:30 <lophyte> kaltsi, oh sorry... misunderstood
Nov 19 22:28:30 <kaltsi> K`zan: drag them away from there
Nov 19 22:29:07 <kaltsi> np
Nov 19 22:29:07 <K`zan> kaltsi: Can drag them anyplace you want - they don't move...
Nov 19 22:29:07 * lophyte checks the wiki for info about flashing
Nov 19 22:29:15 <konttori> damn, is it true that os2008 version of python 2.5 doesn't have glade?
Nov 19 22:29:30 <kaltsi> K`zan: what a crock then.. this os2008 allows you to do that
Nov 19 22:29:31 <lophyte> that's what I heard
Nov 19 22:29:54 <K`zan> I am running 2008...
Nov 19 22:30:10 <kaltsi> K`zan: well then it will work.. just drag that 'maps' to another folder
Nov 19 22:30:36 <kaltsi> I'm doing it right now right here
Nov 19 22:32:24 <K`zan> kaltsi, tried that, lemme close and try again
Nov 19 22:32:26 <kaltsi> although I have the n810, maybe it doesn't work on n800 yet
Nov 19 22:32:53 <K`zan> Ok, do it enough times and it works :)
Nov 19 22:32:58 <kaltsi> hehe
Nov 19 22:34:04 * |R hoped for nokia's email this monday :|
Nov 19 22:34:06 <K`zan> only took 5 for maps and 10 for rapsody :-),  Damnifiknow :).
Nov 19 22:34:48 <lophyte> haha
Nov 19 22:35:15 <lophyte> I hope this works...
Nov 19 22:35:31 <K`zan> Up to 25 so far trying to move FBReader up to My Selection.
Nov 19 22:35:44 <K`zan> CLI could be a lot better for this from the looks of it.
Nov 19 22:36:49 <czr> hah. spellchecker complains about "Ok"
Nov 19 22:36:52 <czr> damn you!
Nov 19 22:37:01 <czr> NAO OK!
Nov 19 22:37:19 <K`zan> 50x screw it, I'll live with where ever it decides it wants it.
Nov 19 22:38:25 <kaltsi> haha
Nov 19 22:39:14 <kaltsi> can you move the fbreader in its current menu?
Nov 19 22:39:27 <kaltsi> you should be able to rearrange the items there by dragging them too
Nov 19 22:39:51 <K`zan> Can move that in the grand scheme of thing (up, down)
Nov 19 22:40:41 <K`zan> But can't seem to move anything in out of extras - GUI feedback indicates I am picking it up and on the right place do drop it.  Poor...
Nov 19 22:41:01 <K`zan> I may just reflash 2007, this may not work on an n800 right.
Nov 19 22:41:13 <kaltsi> for me that seems to work too.. moved scummVM there
Nov 19 22:41:47 <K`zan> Got me, Cool little device, but I am liking it less as time goes on :-(.
Nov 19 22:42:36 <K`zan> Lets try removing the charger, there are things that don't work if the charger is plugged in while you are trying to do it.
Nov 19 22:43:17 <lophyte> there, works now...
Nov 19 22:43:18 <lophyte> thanks guys
Nov 19 22:43:36 <K`zan> Nope...
Nov 19 22:45:26 <kaltsi> K`zan: do you have an example of something that doesn't work when charger is plugged in?
Nov 19 22:46:40 <K`zan> I forget what it was now, perhaps it was the 2008 burn IIRC.
Nov 19 22:47:11 <K`zan> Can move stuff around in extras but can not move it to another folder - weird.
Nov 19 22:51:18 <K`zan> Finnaly Got the last item moved from My Selection - just keep moving it, eventually it takes.
Nov 19 22:52:09 <K`zan> Oh well, off to find the 2007 image.
Nov 19 22:52:16 <mariorz_> wow just lost an hour to doom
Nov 19 22:53:55 <mariorz_> so when coding you guys work on your desktop then transfer files via smb? usb? or just ssh and use vim or whatever?
Nov 19 22:54:23 * czr uses scp/ssh
Nov 19 22:54:31 <czr> matter of taste I guess.
Nov 19 22:54:40 <czr> some people use NFS, some USB
Nov 19 22:55:02 <mariorz_> hmm, usb seems a pain with the connnect/disconect umonut etch
Nov 19 22:55:14 <derf> sshfs!
Nov 19 22:55:15 <_Monkey> hmmm... sshfs is enough for mgedmin_'s needs
Nov 19 22:55:29 * mariorz_ googles
Nov 19 22:57:57 <L0cutusM> 'night all
Nov 19 22:58:51 * L0cutusM use scp
Nov 19 22:59:35 <L0cutusM> 5-700k/sec in write to mmc
Nov 19 22:59:58 <L0cutusM> not so bad after all
Nov 19 23:02:14 <lardman> what does a major number of 4 indicate? character device?
Nov 19 23:03:08 <kaltsi> czr wtf.. emacs did build and got packaged
Nov 19 23:03:21 <czr> kaltsi, with the ultimate spam-shielding?
Nov 19 23:03:27 <kaltsi> yes..
Nov 19 23:03:32 <czr> you make me shudder :-)
Nov 19 23:03:37 <kaltsi> but this was the x86 build.. took this long to do it
Nov 19 23:03:42 <czr> heh
Nov 19 23:03:52 <czr> good luck with getting it to build with crapola qemu though
Nov 19 23:03:55 <kaltsi> maybe I'll leave the armel to build overnight
Nov 19 23:03:56 <mariorz_> kaltsi: works? :D
Nov 19 23:04:03 * czr bets the build will fail
Nov 19 23:04:22 <kaltsi> it's about 10 megabytes of deb packages.. eek
Nov 19 23:04:43 <czr> kaltsi, it's twice as best as technoballz (took some 5 MiB+)
Nov 19 23:04:44 <kaltsi> no let me correct that.. 20
Nov 19 23:04:47 <mariorz_> micro-emacs?
Nov 19 23:04:52 <czr> 4 times the balls of technoballz.
Nov 19 23:04:59 <kaltsi> no the full ballz-on emacs21
Nov 19 23:05:06 <mariorz_> kewl
Nov 19 23:05:56 <kaltsi> I'll try it with the sdk env.. let's see
Nov 19 23:06:19 * czr considers doing s/thing/crap/ to a heading that reads "what is this thing called maemo?"
Nov 19 23:06:30 <czr> but I'm nice tonight. I'll wait until the material goes public first :-)
Nov 19 23:07:01 <czr> with captions like "A puny little Hello World", I cannot lose!
Nov 19 23:07:13 <czr> (and yes, it is quite puny)
Nov 19 23:08:51 <kaltsi> argh.. now emacs wants emacsen-common and that wanst bsdmainutils
Nov 19 23:08:56 <czr> heh
Nov 19 23:09:04 <czr> replace them all with /bin/true? :-)
Nov 19 23:09:10 <kaltsi> and that wants god knows what.. graarh
Nov 19 23:14:41 * pupnik haets not knowing when N810 will be available at nokia.de
Nov 19 23:15:02 <pupnik> today? refresh. nope.  pre-order possibility?  nope.
Nov 19 23:15:30 <czr> hey, at least you got the discount :-)
Nov 19 23:15:36 <pupnik> i suppose it takes a while to produce a batch of em
Nov 19 23:15:50 <czr> pupnik, they're gluing maemo into them as we speak
Nov 19 23:16:08 <pupnik> hem but there are units in stores in chicago
Nov 19 23:16:14 <czr> for sale?
Nov 19 23:16:23 <pupnik> yes people are walking into the store and buying em
Nov 19 23:16:33 <czr> heh. that's just so unjust :-)
Nov 19 23:17:04 <Vanya> Guys, anyone use FBReader? How to make it to uncompress .rar?
Nov 19 23:17:27 <czr> Vanya, you should uncompress the rar externally to the device
Nov 19 23:17:37 <czr> or port unrar to the device and use it from the command line.
Nov 19 23:18:26 <Vanya> Tnx, i'm unraring from console, but i thiught there's a kind of plugin or something
Nov 19 23:18:51 * czr shrugs
Nov 19 23:18:53 <czr> maybe there is
Nov 19 23:20:33 <Vanya> Well, it's rather comfortable to uncompress zip files right from reader ... It's a pity we can't do the same with rar. Thnaks anyway.
Nov 19 23:20:43 <K`zan> Instructions for flashing 2007 the same as 2008 (From here: http://www.cnet.com/surveillance-state/8301-13739_1-9816300-46.html)?
Nov 19 23:21:20 <czr> K`zan, try to find the flashing instructions on maemo.org?
Nov 19 23:21:33 <K`zan> czr rr tnx!
Nov 19 23:21:40 <pupnik> MobileCityOnline just got some in stock.  Looks like it's a rolling release.
Nov 19 23:22:15 <czr> K`zan, rr = resource record?
Nov 19 23:22:28 <czr> road runner?
Nov 19 23:22:32 <czr> beep beep?
Nov 19 23:26:46 <lardman> hmm, are there any standard entries under /sys/modules/*/ ?
Nov 19 23:27:28 <czr> lardman, depends on kernel version. "yes"
Nov 19 23:27:39 <lardman> I have 2 directories: holders and sections, and two files: initstate and refcnt
Nov 19 23:27:48 * czr nods
Nov 19 23:28:04 <lardman> I'm wondering if these are standard
Nov 19 23:28:05 <czr> sections is the linkage sections (similar to objdump will show)
Nov 19 23:28:09 <czr> refcnt is standard
Nov 19 23:28:18 <lardman> I can't find them in the code
Nov 19 23:28:19 <czr> tells you the reference count of the module
Nov 19 23:28:23 <lardman> ok
Nov 19 23:28:29 <czr> refcount is automatical
Nov 19 23:28:45 <czr> sections come from the kernel module linker, which is not manipulated by module code directly
Nov 19 23:28:50 <czr> hence you won't see any code for those
Nov 19 23:29:03 <lardman> what about initstate?
Nov 19 23:29:13 <czr> refcount is incremented at least once with.. MODULE_USE or a macro similar to that
Nov 19 23:29:18 <czr> I don't remember, sry :-)
Nov 19 23:29:29 <czr> you might want to use the LXR?
Nov 19 23:29:39 <czr> http://lxr.linux.no/source/
Nov 19 23:29:59 <lardman> good stuff, thanks :)
Nov 19 23:30:16 <czr> np, it's been some time since I worked with the kernel, things fall off the edge of memory and such..
Nov 19 23:30:30 <lardman> I can understand that
Nov 19 23:30:58 <czr> but, I think I'll get some sleep. finished couple of chapters at least today. silly day today was.
Nov 19 23:31:14 <czr> maybe I'll play some battlefront, as sniper. to relax. shoot some rebel scum :-)
Nov 19 23:31:19 <lardman> :)
Nov 19 23:31:25 <lardman> you reading or writing chapters?
Nov 19 23:31:35 <czr> both. reading and rewriting
Nov 19 23:31:43 <czr> updating mat from 1.0/3.2 to 4.0
Nov 19 23:31:43 <lardman> thesis?
Nov 19 23:31:49 <czr> bleh. training material for maemo.
Nov 19 23:31:53 <lardman> ah ok
Nov 19 23:31:59 <czr> thesis would be easier
Nov 19 23:32:07 <lardman> oh yeah :D
Nov 19 23:32:32 <czr> yup. the material will go public soon I guess
Nov 19 23:32:45 <czr> once I get the updates done and it's reviewed. so you can all suffer from it
Nov 19 23:33:03 <czr> not that most people on this channel would find it useful anyway, but still (it's more for people who've never seen GTK+)
Nov 19 23:33:07 <lardman> hmm, looks like those sysfs entries are all automatic
Nov 19 23:33:12 <czr> yup
Nov 19 23:33:22 <lardman> no proc entries, I wonder what's happened to the module
Nov 19 23:33:39 <lardman> klogd me thinks
Nov 19 23:33:40 <czr> maybe it needs some helper module to work
Nov 19 23:33:47 <czr> or maybe the symbol renaming broke it
Nov 19 23:33:56 <lardman> it would have fallen over then though
Nov 19 23:34:01 <czr> you can use dmesg as klogd replacement
Nov 19 23:34:01 <lardman> it just appears to be sitting there
Nov 19 23:34:09 * czr nods
Nov 19 23:34:14 <lardman> but module_init should create the proc entries so I'm confused
Nov 19 23:34:16 <czr> it's waiting for the Bright Future(tm)
Nov 19 23:34:25 <czr> it should? add printks
Nov 19 23:34:25 <lardman> may well be :)
Nov 19 23:34:33 <lardman> it's binary only
Nov 19 23:34:40 <czr> patch printks in!
Nov 19 23:34:45 <lardman> hmm
Nov 19 23:34:49 <lardman> :)
Nov 19 23:34:50 <czr> just joking :-)
Nov 19 23:34:55 <kaltsi> emacs seems to be building on the armel side too
Nov 19 23:35:05 <kaltsi> but I gotta sleep
Nov 19 23:35:10 <czr> kaltsi, I'll buy you beer if it builds completely without intervention
Nov 19 23:35:18 <kaltsi> hehe :)
Nov 19 23:35:21 <czr> yeah, me too
Nov 19 23:35:27 <czr> tomorrow maemoteers!
Nov 19 23:35:33 <lardman> night chaps
Nov 19 23:35:33 <kaltsi> cu
Nov 19 23:35:35 <czr> ->
Nov 19 23:37:26 <Atarii> is jablet.org down?
Nov 19 23:40:31 <lopz> re
Nov 19 23:47:59 <mariorz_> when running a python app/script whats the difference between doing python blah.py and run-standalone.sh blah.py?
Nov 19 23:48:54 <mariorz_> and wtf would i get a file not found while doing the run-standalone while the file is clearly there
Nov 19 23:49:40 <sp3000> example?
Nov 19 23:50:06 <mariorz_> run-standalone.sh /home/user/uitest.py
Nov 19 23:50:39 <mariorz_> also run-standalone.sh ./uitest.py and run-standalone.sh uitest.py and every possible combination
Nov 19 23:51:12 <sp3000> head -n1 /home/user/uitest.py
Nov 19 23:51:26 <mariorz_> python uitest.py works fine
Nov 19 23:51:49 <sp3000> and does run-standalone.sh python uitest.py
Nov 19 23:52:19 <sp3000> (another question is do you need it)
Nov 19 23:52:46 <mariorz_> lol yeah that works
Nov 19 23:52:57 <mariorz_> the head -n1 takes off the first line or what?
Nov 19 23:53:18 <mariorz_> do i need what?
Nov 19 23:53:50 <sp3000> run-standalone
Nov 19 23:54:14 <sp3000> re the head, does the interpreter specified by your hashbang exist?
Nov 19 23:54:30 <sp3000> which is what would be used if you run the script rather than python
Nov 19 23:54:41 <mariorz_> oh ok
Nov 19 23:55:00 <mariorz_> #!/var/lib/install/usr/bin/python2.5 <-- yeah jsut copied that ill check if its right
Nov 19 23:55:13 <mariorz_> sorry for all the noobness
Nov 19 23:55:53 <sp3000> that sounds like something out of OS2005 :)
Nov 19 23:55:59 * zerojay yawns.
Nov 19 23:56:36 <zerojay> Atarii: Jablet.org doesn't run any web services. Just a Jabber server. If you're looking for our website, Jablet.net.
Nov 19 23:56:36 <mariorz_> yeah was going trougan old tutorial
Nov 19 23:56:49 <zerojay> Atarii: I know it's stupid, but it will be fixed at some point.
Nov 19 23:57:20 <mariorz_> ls
Nov 20 00:12:17 <zerojay> Atarii: Working for ya?
Nov 20 00:17:55 <lardman> night chaps
Nov 20 00:25:35 <sp3000> as opposed to the daytime outfit
Nov 20 00:36:39 <Atarii> zerojay
Nov 20 00:36:44 <Atarii> thanks, got it now
Nov 20 00:37:09 <Atarii> the jablet.org and .net is confusing!
Nov 20 00:37:26 <Atarii> but now running msn contacts seemlessly on 2007he :D
Nov 20 00:37:41 <zerojay> Atarii: Yeah, I can understand that. The way I look at it is "Jabber server = .org, everything else = .net".
Nov 20 00:37:55 <Atarii> yea ill remember that now
Nov 20 00:38:08 <zerojay> We'll fix it.. it's just that I set up the Jabber server separately because the one that came with our hosting was really really shitty. I didn't even want to use it.
Nov 20 00:38:20 <Atarii> will an IRC transport ever become available or not, because of the TOS ?
Nov 20 00:38:24 <mariorz_> anyone use maemo-google-reader?
Nov 20 00:39:09 <zerojay> The Jabber server's on the lowest hosting plan... perhaps when we're ready to bump that up higher, we'll move it all to .org and redirect .net.
Nov 20 00:39:37 <zerojay> Atarii: The TOS of the server hosting the Jabber server specifically states "No IRC servers, no IRC bouncers, no IRC bots, NO IRC."
Nov 20 00:39:43 <Atarii> :(
Nov 20 00:39:46 <zerojay> Literally.
Nov 20 00:40:01 <zerojay> So I imagine they've been fucked over by IRC in the past. lol.
Nov 20 00:40:07 <zerojay> Yeah, I know... I hate it too.
Nov 20 00:40:14 <Atarii> lol yea thats pretty specific
Nov 20 00:40:21 <zerojay> Perhaps it's acceptable on the higher up servers.
Nov 20 00:40:30 <zerojay> I'll look into it, because it's something I do want to offer.
Nov 20 00:40:54 <Atarii> dont know wat it wud look like in the chat window on the tablet tho
Nov 20 00:41:53 <Atarii> how many people are using jablet now?
Nov 20 00:43:17 <zerojay> Hah. Good point.
Nov 20 00:43:20 <zerojay> Let's see...
Nov 20 00:43:34 <zerojay> Registered users: 82
Nov 20 00:43:51 <zerojay> Active sessions: 26.
Nov 20 00:44:12 <Atarii> thats good
Nov 20 00:44:22 <Atarii> altho only 18 registered users on the forum
Nov 20 00:44:26 <zerojay> It was 33 only about 24 hours ago.
Nov 20 00:44:37 <Atarii> shows wat itt forum can do :p
Nov 20 00:44:48 <zerojay> No kidding.
Nov 20 00:44:57 <zerojay> We can offer e-mail too.
Nov 20 00:45:06 <zerojay> But I don't know if anyone would be interested in that.
Nov 20 00:45:20 <Atarii> will it stay a free service?
Nov 20 00:45:21 <zerojay> And other stuff on the way as well, such as the Video Center feeds.
Nov 20 00:45:26 <zerojay> Absolutely.
Nov 20 00:45:53 <Atarii> i need to check out the video centre, havnt tried that yet
Nov 20 00:46:03 <Atarii> altho spare time is at a minimum at the moment
Nov 20 00:46:36 <zerojay> I haven't done much with it since I updated to 2008.. video center doesn't work on it.
Nov 20 00:47:26 <zerojay> The site will always stay free.
Nov 20 00:47:31 <zerojay> And will stay ad-free as well.
Nov 20 00:47:42 <zerojay> We'll accept donations at some point.
Nov 20 00:48:10 <Atarii> yea bet the costs add up
Nov 20 00:48:16 <zerojay> Which will all be used only for hosting costs.
Nov 20 00:48:33 <zerojay> It's not that bad... at least not for the modest server I've got running Jabber right now.
Nov 20 00:48:38 <zerojay> But it should be fine for now.
Nov 20 00:49:09 <zerojay> I'm just having fun seeing so many people finally enjoying what I've been doing for ages on my tablet.
Nov 20 00:49:18 <zerojay> And helping to dispel the Pidgin myth. ;)
Nov 20 00:49:31 <Atarii> :D
Nov 20 00:49:51 <Atarii> i tried it before but the contacts never showed who was online, guess it was a shitty jabber server tho
Nov 20 00:50:08 <zerojay> Yeah, see, those are the kinds of problems we would have had with the original server.
Nov 20 00:50:27 <zerojay> You'd have to manually readd your AIM contacts, etc..
Nov 20 00:50:30 <zerojay> Screw that.
Nov 20 00:50:34 <Atarii> lol
Nov 20 00:51:02 <Atarii> is there anyway for it to get your contact groups automatically from msn?
Nov 20 00:51:43 <zerojay> I'm very interested in getting a mugshot clone running for tablet users on Jablet.. and it turns out that Mugshot uses the same Jabber server I use already.. so eventually that might be nice.
Nov 20 00:51:56 <zerojay> I don't think the IM gateway supports that at the moment.
Nov 20 00:52:17 <Atarii> yea display pics wud be good
Nov 20 00:53:00 <zerojay> Those are actually supported, but because of a bug in the current version of the transport, it won't pull them down unless you directly ask the other client for it.
Nov 20 00:53:13 <zerojay> Possibly by starting a chat and checking their profile... unsure.
Nov 20 00:53:31 <zerojay> But as soon as the bugfix for the IM gateway is released, I'll be throwing it on there.
Nov 20 00:53:43 <zerojay> And I was told that would be part of the fixes.
Nov 20 00:53:54 <Atarii> :)
Nov 20 00:54:23 <penguinbait> zj, please forgive my ignorance, but why whoudl I want to use your service?
Nov 20 00:55:20 <penguinbait> why not just use google, or aim, or msn or whatever, I guess I am missing something?
Nov 20 00:55:24 <zerojay> Well, a lot of people don't know much about Jabber and about how they can use the tablet's internal Jabber client to talk to their AIM/MSN and other buddies.
Nov 20 00:55:33 <zerojay> Instead of installing Pidgin.
Nov 20 00:55:41 <penguinbait> ah
Nov 20 00:56:06 <zerojay> Because you're doing it through the internal client, you get integration into the tablet's address book as well as alert system.
Nov 20 00:56:13 <zerojay> Lower memory usage...
Nov 20 00:56:21 <zerojay> A few other things I can't think of at the moment.
Nov 20 00:56:30 <penguinbait> I am using kopete anyway :)
Nov 20 00:56:44 <zerojay> But the main idea is that most people don't know you could do that.. or if they knew, they wouldn't be able to find a stable server with the gateways they need.
Nov 20 00:56:50 <zerojay> It's what I'm using on my desktop. ;)
Nov 20 00:56:54 <zerojay> Kopete.
Nov 20 00:57:24 <zerojay> We're going to add other stuff as well.
Nov 20 00:57:31 <penguinbait> I like the ktts plugin
Nov 20 00:57:51 <zerojay> But first, I want to finish creating a signup page that will connect and add your IM gateways without needing you to do it manually on a PC.
Nov 20 00:58:56 <zerojay> And we've got other ideas... video center feed database that works like Nokia's (currently working).
Nov 20 00:59:47 <zerojay> The cool thing about that is that you can subscribe to an RSS feed for the video center feed database and as soon as new podcasts shows (not episodes) are added, you'll get told in your feed reader. One click in the feed reader and it's added to your video center.
Nov 20 00:59:49 <niteOwl> I'm trying to compile dates as X86 target under scratchbox (to do some debugging) - where can I find a repository with libtool1.5 instead of the libtool1.4 which comes with maemo SDK 3.2 - My guess is finding this will fix my problem since I have that version on my desktop and can build dates fine. The precise error message is actually that it can't find libtool.m4 so if you know where it's hiding I could fix the prob
Nov 20 01:01:01 <zerojay> penguinbait: So if you've got ideas on something you think would be useful, let me know and we can try it out.
Nov 20 01:03:23 <zerojay> Modest is pretty awesome.
Nov 20 01:03:46 <zerojay> I think people are going to be quite happy with it.. we'll hear a lot of "this should have been the e-mail client from the start".
Nov 20 01:04:00 <Atarii> lol
Nov 20 01:04:01 <zerojay> Glad it will be the new e-mail client, eventually.
Nov 20 01:04:47 <zerojay> Tested an SVN build.
Nov 20 01:04:49 <zerojay> Great stuff.
Nov 20 01:07:22 <Atarii> rite bed
Nov 20 01:08:00 <Atarii> thanks for the jablet zerojay (and texrat whereever he is)
Nov 20 01:12:34 <pupnik> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11931  reminder, vote for the N810 winner
Nov 20 01:13:05 <pupnik> niteOwl: check gronmayer repo index
Nov 20 01:13:07 <pupnik> repositories?
Nov 20 01:13:08 <_Monkey> hmmm... repositories is http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories  and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
Nov 20 01:17:42 <niteOwl> pupnik: thanks - I solved it a better way though - found the file and created a symlink from /scratchbox/devkits/doctools/share/aclocal/intltool.m4 to /usr/share/aclocal/intltool.m4 and also for libtool....autogen is now cranking away happily
Nov 20 01:18:21 <niteOwl> i'm slightly annoyed this seems to be broken in the default maemo 3.2 SDK install - OR (and more likely) I'm missing something
Nov 20 01:18:44 <niteOwl> since I'm just starting learning to do development for the N800
Nov 20 01:38:56 <pupnik> niteOwl: i ran into a similar problem and forgot the solution
Nov 20 01:45:35 <mariorz_> anyone use reader mini?
Nov 20 01:55:31 <mariorz_> cant seem to get it too log in from the device just hangs
Nov 20 02:00:42 <K`zan> I'm developing a love/hate relationship with the n800 leaning heavily toward the love side :-) :-) :-).
Nov 20 02:02:57 <zerojay> Haha.
Nov 20 02:05:13 <K`zan> Gizmo won't install though, wonder what that is all about.
Nov 20 02:05:13 <zerojay> The only thing driving me nuts is the wait for my N810.
Nov 20 02:05:13 <dieman`> heh, the nokia store on letstalk says nov 27 now
Nov 20 02:05:31 <dieman`> so i guess that means USA device program participants get to wait a week
Nov 20 02:05:32 <dieman`> at least
Nov 20 02:05:34 <zerojay> dieman`: I know, but people have been getting it from there.
Nov 20 02:05:41 <zerojay> Yeah. :(
Nov 20 02:05:50 <dieman`> well, the discount code doesn't work yet :)
Nov 20 02:05:59 <elb> the real point is, you can't even order with the discount code
Nov 20 02:06:00 <K`zan> Not waiting for one here.  I think I'd be much happer with the 800 and MY choice of keyboard and GPS...
Nov 20 02:06:03 <elb> so it doesn't matter what it says the date is
Nov 20 02:06:15 <dieman`> i dont mind waiting
Nov 20 02:06:34 <elb> I am hoping to get mine before I fly to Russia for the new year
Nov 20 02:06:38 <elb> other than that, I can wait ;-)
Nov 20 02:07:05 <K`zan> Took the n800 with me today and was rather amazed at the number of WAPs out there.
Nov 20 02:07:30 <K`zan> One more try to see if Gizmo will install.
Nov 20 02:07:59 <zerojay> There's one near my work that I use most of the day, but the signal is pretty weak.
Nov 20 02:08:05 <K`zan> Would be nice if it told you WHY it won't install...
Nov 20 02:08:12 <dieman> work has a ton of access points
Nov 20 02:08:13 <zerojay> Look in Logs...
Nov 20 02:08:15 <dieman> so no worries there
Nov 20 02:08:26 <zerojay> dieman: You don't work at a place like I do then. ;)
Nov 20 02:08:28 <K`zan> Logs?  /var/log maybe?
Nov 20 02:08:49 <zerojay> K`zan: Open the application's menu and choose Tools -> Log
Nov 20 02:09:10 <K`zan> Hard to get my head aligned with the fact that this is linux :-).  Too braindead from all the years of Palms :).
Nov 20 02:09:29 <K`zan> zerojay: Thanks :) if it fails again, I'll check that out.
Nov 20 02:11:36 <K`zan> apparently blew up trying to over write a .png file on the SD card...
Nov 20 02:12:00 <K`zan> No....
Nov 20 02:13:59 <K`zan> In .usr/share/icons/highcolor/scalable/hildon/gizmo-project.png which is also in the package gizmo-installer ...  dpkg-deb-subprocess paste killed by signal (broken pipe).
Nov 20 02:14:06 <K`zan> Must be an 810 only app?
Nov 20 02:14:49 <elb> sounds like you already have a gizmo package installed
Nov 20 02:15:34 <K`zan> Don't think so, ran that from the communications folder, but let me check and see.
Nov 20 02:16:00 <K`zan> Nope not showing in the installed apps view
Nov 20 02:16:52 <K`zan> If I hadn't told my friend I was installing it and would give him a call, it would have installed LOL!
Nov 20 02:17:15 <elb> gizmo-installer is apparently installed, or you would not have gotten that error
Nov 20 02:17:27 <elb> if you have a shell, dpkg -l | grep gizmo might be instructional
Nov 20 02:17:39 <K`zan> Err, of course the installer is installed, that is how I was installing it :).
Nov 20 02:17:59 <elb> then the package is broken
Nov 20 02:18:25 <elb> if one package installs a second package which contains the same file as the first
Nov 20 02:18:29 <K`zan> Nokia-N800-:~# dpkg -l | grep gizmo
Nov 20 02:18:29 <K`zan> ii  gizmo-installer                                0.79                               Installer utility application for Gizmo.
Nov 20 02:19:31 <K`zan> Makes me wonder what else might be broken in 2008 if the included stuff is broken :-/.
Nov 20 02:20:10 <K`zan> Starting to wonder if it might be wise to re-flash 2007 until they actually release 2008 for the n800?!?
Nov 20 02:20:40 <zerojay> K`zan: No need for the Gizmo client to use your Gizmo account on IT2008.
Nov 20 02:21:03 <K`zan> zerojay: Kind of hard to use it if you can't install it :).
Nov 20 02:21:11 <zerojay> You don't need to install it.
Nov 20 02:21:22 * K`zan cornfuzed...
Nov 20 02:21:35 <zerojay> You can add your Gizmo account as a SIP account.
Nov 20 02:21:52 <elb> yeah, I don't get why people complain about *anything* in an unreleased operating system they hijacked via an unsupported process
Nov 20 02:21:52 <zerojay> And use the built-in SIP client.
Nov 20 02:22:00 <zerojay> Haha.
Nov 20 02:22:03 <K`zan> Ah, might be useful to have a Gizmo account then :).  Lemme go see what that entails.
Nov 20 02:22:23 <zerojay> Wait wait wait.
Nov 20 02:22:25 <K`zan> I assumed all that would be taken care of by installing it.
Nov 20 02:22:38 <K`zan> Rather in the process of ...
Nov 20 02:22:40 <zerojay> You don't have an account with gizmo yet?
Nov 20 02:22:50 <K`zan> Nope
Nov 20 02:22:56 <zerojay> I think you can just sign up on the website, but I might be wrong.
Nov 20 02:23:09 <K`zan> Lemme go find them and see,
Nov 20 02:23:12 <K`zan> .
Nov 20 02:23:42 <zerojay> Once you have your account, you can use the instructions at http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ (Gizmo = sipphone).
Nov 20 02:25:52 <K`zan> Still trying to find their website, bookmarked that for when I do :).
Nov 20 02:26:26 <zerojay> gizmoproject.com
Nov 20 02:26:43 <K`zan> Thanks!
Nov 20 02:29:30 <K`zan> Still rooting through the site, looks like you sign up from within their software, but still looking...
Nov 20 02:29:46 <K`zan> There does appear to be separate ones for the n800 and n810 though.
Nov 20 02:31:52 <K`zan> Yep:
Nov 20 02:31:56 <K`zan> Free Sign Up!
Nov 20 02:31:56 <K`zan> Download and install Gizmo Project to sign up.
Nov 20 02:31:56 <K`zan> When you have set up your account, you can return to this page.
Nov 20 02:32:11 <K`zan> Gonna try the n800 one off their site...
Nov 20 02:34:51 <K`zan> Nope that one croaks for the same reason, oh well.
Nov 20 02:38:46 <zerojay> Get the one for N810.
Nov 20 02:39:04 <zerojay> Anyone know if there's a VNC program for OS2008 yet?
Nov 20 02:39:55 <mariorz_> how hard would it be to port a lis interpreter tot he device
Nov 20 02:39:57 <mariorz_> ?
Nov 20 02:40:08 <mariorz_> is it a matter of just compiling for it?
Nov 20 02:40:17 <mariorz_> lisp*
Nov 20 02:40:30 <K`zan> zerojay: Lemme try that one then...
Nov 20 02:41:02 <K`zan> Installed the RPM here if all else fails...
Nov 20 02:42:46 <K`zan> zerojay: That one won't install either...
Nov 20 02:42:53 <K`zan> Same result.
Nov 20 02:42:56 <zerojay> Well, I don't know then.
Nov 20 02:43:26 <K`zan> Me either :). I can set it up on the desktop here and then do the SIP setup thing on the n800, perhaps that will work.
Nov 20 02:43:46 <K`zan> Appreciate you help with this.  Wonder if it is just me or if the packages are all hosed?!?
Nov 20 02:45:46 <zerojay> That should work.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Nov 20 02:59:57 2007