**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Nov 27 02:59:57 2007
Nov 27 03:00:00 <zerojay> I'd do it myself, but I don't think anyone would listen and I don't think I'd get enough alone time to record anyways.
Nov 27 03:01:32 <oil> great, os2008 for n800 is out
Nov 27 03:02:17 <deejoe> out, out, or out as beta?
Nov 27 03:02:23 <zerojay> Out as in beta.
Nov 27 03:02:33 <zerojay> Final = December.
Nov 27 03:02:45 <deejoe> ah.
Nov 27 03:02:48 <GeneralAntilles> beta, smeta it works great.
Nov 27 03:02:55 <zerojay> Indeed, it does.
Nov 27 03:03:53 <oil> uh. with this speed (2.5KB/s) I'll get the whole package after 14 hours of downloading. something wrong with the server?
Nov 27 03:04:19 <GeneralAntilles> http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3910524
Nov 27 03:04:21 <soothsayer> Is there an easy way to replace the ultra-bright splash images? I nearly go blind when turning the device on in the dark
Nov 27 03:04:45 <zerojay> That's your problem.
Nov 27 03:04:49 <zerojay> Don't turn it off.
Nov 27 03:05:02 <zerojay> :)
Nov 27 03:05:14 <GeneralAntilles> Related question, is there a way to make the lowest software brightness setting the same as the lowest hardware setting?
Nov 27 03:05:15 <zerojay> But yes, there is a way to replace the image.. I believe in the rootfs.
Nov 27 03:05:24 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously, soothsayer, there's no reason to turn these things off.
Nov 27 03:05:28 <zerojay> Probably can through gconf.
Nov 27 03:05:56 <soothsayer> zerojay: Which image? The blue Nokia on white or the holding hands?
Nov 27 03:06:13 <zerojay> Both should be in the rootfs.
Nov 27 03:07:17 <zerojay> I just don't ever turn the thing off.
Nov 27 03:07:31 <zerojay> At home, I plug it in before bed.
Nov 27 03:07:42 <zerojay> At work, I've got a ton of Nokia chargers everywhere.
Nov 27 03:08:35 <halley> zerojay, you work at Nokia?
Nov 27 03:08:50 <zerojay> halley: No no no.
Nov 27 03:08:59 <zerojay> halley: I work for a cell phone gaming company.
Nov 27 03:09:12 <zerojay> So we've got about 350 phones from all around the world.
Nov 27 03:09:17 <zerojay> About half are Nokias.
Nov 27 03:09:38 <soothsayer> Sometimes my battery runs out but in any case I will eventually boot it in the dark and will curse those splash screens
Nov 27 03:10:03 <halley> Gaming gambling, or gaming bejeweled?
Nov 27 03:10:17 <zerojay> Gaming as in videogames running on cell phones.
Nov 27 03:10:40 <zerojay> The one and only reason I want to have Java on my N800. ;P
Nov 27 03:11:02 <zerojay> Show off my work to my parents.
Nov 27 03:11:04 <halley> Pygame not good enough?
Nov 27 03:11:04 <oil> zerojay: did you see the wii-remote controlled 'game' for n95 yet?
Nov 27 03:11:24 <GeneralAntilles> Ha, don't get him started on the Wii. :P
Nov 27 03:11:41 <zerojay> halley: Games on cell phones are usually written for BREW or Java.. not python.
Nov 27 03:11:41 <oil> heh. it's simply great demo :)
Nov 27 03:11:56 <zerojay> oil: I don't see anything practical coming out of it.
Nov 27 03:12:12 <zerojay> So while that sort of thing was interesting (the first 2000 times it was done), it's just old now.
Nov 27 03:12:30 <zerojay> Wiimote uses Bluetooth... we get it.
Nov 27 03:12:57 <K`zan> Load Aoolet in the 2008 system stuff says it is an incompatible package FWIW.
Nov 27 03:12:59 <zerojay> oil: But I haven't seen this particular one yet, no.
Nov 27 03:13:02 <K`zan> Load applet
Nov 27 03:13:02 <_Monkey> rumour has it Load applet is an application that provides a status bar plugin that shows the CPU load and memory usage. It has a small menu that allows for easy screen-shot taking. https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet/
Nov 27 03:13:03 <GeneralAntilles> Ha . . . look what you've done.
Nov 27 03:13:25 <K`zan> Just tried to install that :-(.
Nov 27 03:13:27 <zerojay> change die bot die?
Nov 27 03:13:27 <_Monkey> zerojay: that doesn't look right
Nov 27 03:13:32 <zerojay> :)
Nov 27 03:13:38 <oil> well I saw the thing for the first time 2 days ago and tought it was neat.
Nov 27 03:13:39 <halley> Well, the camera.py toy worked okay.
Nov 27 03:13:50 <zerojay> halley: Which one is that?
Nov 27 03:14:09 <K`zan> Unable to install (null) - Incompatible application package.
Nov 27 03:14:23 <halley> A python script using the camera api to show a live view from the webcam.  No saving video, just proof of hardware really.
Nov 27 03:14:34 <halley> A scary-bad low-light pinhole camera, as expected.
Nov 27 03:14:38 <zerojay> halley: Is it really unstable and crashy?
Nov 27 03:14:51 <halley> What, python?  Or the camera api?
Nov 27 03:14:58 <zerojay> Camera.py.
Nov 27 03:15:12 <halley> Didn't crash in the 10sec I was running it.  ;)
Nov 27 03:15:14 <elb> heh when I was at Hotnets in 2006, some dude was wearing an N95 around his neck, taking a photo ever 30 seconds or something and uploading it to a web server
Nov 27 03:15:15 <zerojay> Because almost every cam app dies repeatedly or is reallly slow.
Nov 27 03:15:23 <halley> It was slow framerate.
Nov 27 03:15:36 <srwalter> does the N810 camera implement V4L(2) ?
Nov 27 03:15:57 <srwalter> I see /dev/video0, so I'll assume so :)
Nov 27 03:16:32 <halley> So, dumb question, how do I put app shortcuts on the "desktop"?
Nov 27 03:16:37 <zerojay> Hmm.. attempting to download maps for the Map program killed my tablet. Heh.
Nov 27 03:17:02 <GeneralAntilles> Got twice the SD space available?
Nov 27 03:17:40 <halley> Hm, I wish the "lock" slider would shut down wifi and screen, as well as keyboard and touch.
Nov 27 03:17:58 <oil> zerojay: try to get gps location first and then update the maps. might work.
Nov 27 03:18:05 <GeneralAntilles> You could setup the powerbutton for soft power off.
Nov 27 03:18:10 <zerojay> oil: There's no GPS. :)
Nov 27 03:18:16 <srwalter> just so I'm sure:  other people /can/ see these messages, right?
Nov 27 03:18:22 <zerojay> srwalter: Yes.
Nov 27 03:18:23 <oil> zerojay: bluetooth
Nov 27 03:18:31 <srwalter> haha, success.
Nov 27 03:18:33 <halley> GeneralAntilles, where do I config that?
Nov 27 03:18:43 <GeneralAntilles>  /etc/mce/mce.ini
Nov 27 03:18:44 <zerojay> oil: Yes, I know, but it just simply crashed downloading map packs.
Nov 27 03:19:02 <zerojay> Not the maps for wherever I was.
Nov 27 03:19:23 <oil> zerojay: I know. it did the same for me as well with another package.
Nov 27 03:20:47 <zerojay> ARgh.. for some reason, my tablet is taking contacts assigned to my Jablet account and assigns them to Google talk..
Nov 27 03:20:59 <zerojay> Even after I changed it.
Nov 27 03:21:09 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 27 03:21:10 <zerojay> So those people just don't show up as online anymore.
Nov 27 03:21:43 <oil> hm.. to get the WLAN AP MAC address. I can get it after I install wireless-tools and then with iwconfig. BUT is there a way to get the wlan mac addr without installing extra packages to n800?
Nov 27 03:21:50 <zerojay> Yes.
Nov 27 03:21:58 <zerojay> About device in Control Panel.
Nov 27 03:22:06 <GeneralAntilles> Even better!
Nov 27 03:22:07 <halley> GeneralAntilles, any sighup or do I have to reboot?
Nov 27 03:22:09 <GeneralAntilles> Open the back panel. ;)
Nov 27 03:22:17 <GeneralAntilles> Reboot.
Nov 27 03:22:32 <halley> oil, it's printed in the battery bay; jot it down.
Nov 27 03:22:42 <oil> accesspoint MAC address, not the device itself
Nov 27 03:23:01 <oil> WLAN0=`ifconfig wlan0 | grep wlan0 | grep HWaddr | cut -d\r -f3`
Nov 27 03:23:01 <oil> AP=`iwconfig wlan0 | grep 'Access Point:' | cut -d\: -f 4-`
Nov 27 03:23:26 <srwalter> does the N800 have the same wifi chip as the N810/
Nov 27 03:23:54 <oil> but this needs wireless-tools and I'd like to get the AP MAC without installing extra programs
Nov 27 03:25:09 <WillySilly> srwalter: afaik the 800 and 810 do have the same
Nov 27 03:26:35 <halley> GeneralAntilles, thanks.  Seems to come back from softpoweroff with wifi disabled.  Looking back at that config file.
Nov 27 03:26:47 <GeneralAntilles> It's further down
Nov 27 03:26:55 <GeneralAntilles> Change the exit setting to restore
Nov 27 03:26:56 <_Monkey> GeneralAntilles: that doesn't look right
Nov 27 03:27:15 <GeneralAntilles> Shut up, _Monkey, you bitch!
Nov 27 03:28:28 <doc|home> so, erm, how do you backup your stuff?
Nov 27 03:28:48 <zerojay> Backup/Restore
Nov 27 03:29:02 <doc|home> ingenious!
Nov 27 03:29:08 <zerojay> :)
Nov 27 03:31:57 <doc|home> man, that's way easier than it should be
Nov 27 03:32:05 <doc|home> are we really using linux? :)
Nov 27 03:33:46 <halley> GeneralAntilles, the "connectivity policy when running on battery" refers to what to do when ENTERING softpoweroff mode, right?
Nov 27 03:33:47 <GeneralAntilles> I've got an empty drive enclosure.
Nov 27 03:33:50 <GeneralAntilles> Now I need some drives. :\
Nov 27 03:34:10 <GeneralAntilles> Don't think so, halley.
Nov 27 03:34:13 <GeneralAntilles> Let me check it
Nov 27 03:34:42 <halley> There's one for power, one for battery, then the one you were talking about for LEAVING softpoweroff mode.
Nov 27 03:35:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, you're correct
Nov 27 03:35:14 * doc|home giggles a little :o
Nov 27 03:35:25 <halley> And "tklock" refers to the touch/key lock slider?
Nov 27 03:35:34 <GeneralAntilles> the first is entering soft poweroff when charger is connected and the second is on battery.
Nov 27 03:35:47 <GeneralAntilles> Must be.
Nov 27 03:36:33 <halley> Heh, the "camera popout" is irrelevant on N810.
Nov 27 03:38:30 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, no kidding.
Nov 27 03:39:46 <halley> Hm, there's no .bashrc equivalent for busybox is there?
Nov 27 03:40:01 <halley> Gots ta have me 'll' and 'dir'.
Nov 27 03:40:13 <GeneralAntilles> .ashrc?
Nov 27 03:40:17 <GeneralAntilles> (stab in the dark)
Nov 27 03:40:40 <halley> Google agrees.
Nov 27 03:41:46 <doc|home> hmmm, I'm also getting massive-menuitis, can that be changed?
Nov 27 03:43:37 <srwalter> is the wireless connection manager on the N810 open source?
Nov 27 03:44:14 <matt_c> man I was hoping that the poor download server would have had a chance to breathe by now.
Nov 27 03:45:38 <halley> GeneralAntilles, it liked .profile
Nov 27 03:46:04 <GeneralAntilles> Doubtful, srwalter.
Nov 27 03:46:08 <GeneralAntilles> check maemo.org
Nov 27 03:46:18 <srwalter> I have, and haven't seen it there
Nov 27 03:46:35 <srwalter> bah.  it seems like it'd be so easy to add TTLS/PAP support to it
Nov 27 03:46:57 <srwalter> they support TTLS/MSv2CHAP already, and PAP is way simpler.  is plaintext!
Nov 27 03:47:53 <WillySilly> srwalter: I think they use NetworkManager for that, which is under the GPL or LGPL
Nov 27 03:49:46 <srwalter> if that's true, where does nokia typically publish their sources?
Nov 27 03:50:33 <WillySilly> srwalter: http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/IT_source.php  afaik
Nov 27 03:50:40 <srwalter> thanks
Nov 27 03:50:41 <Mmm810> Ne1 know if the wifi drivers 810 use are open source, is it atheros chipset also
Nov 27 03:51:02 <halley> Hm, I wonder if I want to adjust the LED options; it "snores" in blue whether wifi is enabled or not.
Nov 27 03:51:03 <zerojay> Don't believe it is open source.
Nov 27 03:51:11 <WillySilly> Mmm810: Its not an atheros
Nov 27 03:51:54 <WillySilly> Mmm810: and some of the driver is open source, the rest is binary
Nov 27 03:52:12 <GeneralAntilles> You can turn that off in control panel, halley.
Nov 27 03:52:20 <srwalter> cx3110x is the chip
Nov 27 03:52:26 <halley> I don't mind snoring, if it's informative.
Nov 27 03:52:37 <GeneralAntilles> The wifi drivers are closed.
Nov 27 03:52:46 <srwalter> really?  I'm looking at some of the source
Nov 27 03:53:01 <GeneralAntilles> I'm 90% certain.
Nov 27 03:53:06 <WillySilly> srwalter: the part were it interfaces with the kernel is the only part thats open
Nov 27 03:53:10 <srwalter> I see
Nov 27 03:53:11 <GeneralAntilles> If they were open, then wouldn't we have packet injection?
Nov 27 03:53:14 <WillySilly> rest is binary
Nov 27 03:53:19 <srwalter> so umac is binary?
Nov 27 03:53:32 <srwalter> ahh, indeed:
Nov 27 03:53:35 <srwalter> cx3110x 56200 0 - Live 0xbf041000
Nov 27 03:53:36 <srwalter> umac 258788 1 cx3110x, Live 0xbf000000 (P)
Nov 27 03:53:37 <doc|home> how do you accept the layout in the 2008? it's annoying on the rss reader, it keeps moving :/
Nov 27 03:53:45 <srwalter> (P) means proprietary
Nov 27 03:53:52 <zerojay> You can disable that, doc|home
Nov 27 03:54:10 <srwalter> woohoo, there is source to osso-wlan!  Thanks again, WillySilly
Nov 27 03:54:11 <zerojay> Oh, you're talking about the locking home apps.
Nov 27 03:54:26 <zerojay> They don't lock in place like the older versions used to.
Nov 27 03:54:28 <WillySilly> srwalter: no problem, glad I could help
Nov 27 03:54:29 <doc|home> zerojay: yep, I want it, I just don't want it moving :)
Nov 27 03:54:47 <zerojay> It doesn't move so long as you don't drag it.
Nov 27 03:54:58 <WillySilly> Trying to upgrade libglib2.0-0 with 2007HE, but when I do, it bricks it
Nov 27 03:55:03 <doc|home> and which seems to be every time I try to scroll :/
Nov 27 03:55:17 <zerojay> Then you need to recalibrate. :)
Nov 27 03:55:30 <Mmm810> Ohhh really osso-wlan awesome, yes bring on the packet injection
Nov 27 03:55:47 <srwalter> what is this packet injection and why does everyone want it?
Nov 27 03:55:55 <doc|home> I think it's my hands which need calibration :) still, locking was useful, the scrollbar is narrow
Nov 27 03:56:07 <zerojay> Agreed.
Nov 27 03:56:20 <zerojay> I just leave it there autoscrolling and when I see something, I use the RSS feed reader.
Nov 27 03:56:25 <GeneralAntilles> RSS applet is useless
Nov 27 03:56:34 <GeneralAntilles> CPU hog and space in-efficient.
Nov 27 03:56:42 <zerojay> Disagree about it being useless.
Nov 27 03:57:06 <zerojay> When I'm working, I just leave it up with that.. use it as sort of an informative tiny 3rd screen.
Nov 27 03:57:18 <GeneralAntilles> What's with the LEDs on drive enclosures being so ridiculously bright these days?
Nov 27 03:57:24 <GeneralAntilles> I swear they're using 1-watters.
Nov 27 03:58:39 <hexal> anyone having problems with os2008 and kagu.. missing libbz2 and libgdbm3 ? .. weird thing is I cat /etc/apt/sources.list.. and there's nothing there.. I wonder where the reps are :(
Nov 27 03:58:57 <doc|home> ok, this applet's way too annoying, it's gone
Nov 27 03:59:10 <GeneralAntilles> ls /etc/apt
Nov 27 03:59:15 <GeneralAntilles> it's got another extension
Nov 27 03:59:43 <hexal> GeneralAntilles, ho k I see in .d
Nov 27 04:01:01 <WillySilly> anyone using 2007HE?
Nov 27 04:03:05 <pupnik> yes
Nov 27 04:03:48 <WillySilly> pupnik: do you have gps-saver installed?
Nov 27 04:03:59 <pupnik> no
Nov 27 04:04:34 <Mmm810> I cant believe on 810 there's no keyboard shortcut for the app menu, you have to tap to bring up
Nov 27 04:05:01 <zerojay> I thought there was the menu button for that?
Nov 27 04:05:38 <pupnik> how is the gps working for you Mmm810
Nov 27 04:06:03 <doc|home> you flash bastards with your n810s :(
Nov 27 04:06:24 <doc|home> 2008 is much faster :)
Nov 27 04:06:26 <Mmm810> It brings up the home panel applet menu, not the main app menu
Nov 27 04:06:44 <zerojay> That's the application menu. :)
Nov 27 04:07:57 <halley> There.  My power button does nothing on shortpress, does softpoweroff on longpress, and does menu on doublepress.
Nov 27 04:08:07 <Mmm810> Um seems not so powerful on gps took while to find sats one time i tried in back yard in so cal
Nov 27 04:08:20 <halley> And my tklock shuts off screen immediately.
Nov 27 04:08:41 <halley> Mmm810, any gps will take 40sec to lock ephemeris.
Nov 27 04:08:55 <pumpkin> allo
Nov 27 04:08:56 <halley> I haven't tried the n810 gps yet.
Nov 27 04:09:02 <K`zan> Just tried to install that garnet-vm thing and it is missing apps it requires (don't ya love complete packages)?
Nov 27 04:09:07 <pumpkin> I'm having trouble with libcurl on my scratchbox :-/
Nov 27 04:09:42 <K`zan> Anyone got an idea where jildon-fm1, hildon-libs0 and libdbus-1-2 might be found?
Nov 27 04:09:49 <K`zan> hildon-fm1
Nov 27 04:10:08 <Mmm810> Hmm well whatever correct name for menu, i mean main app menu three green one blue square no key for it have to tap
Nov 27 04:10:27 <zerojay> Maybe.. but it's not like that's hard to do. :)
Nov 27 04:10:47 <K`zan> Anyone got an idea where hildon-fm1, hildon-libs0 and libdbus-1-2 might be found?
Nov 27 04:10:51 <K`zan> oops, ww
Nov 27 04:11:10 <pumpkin> anyone know what might be causing errors like http://pastie.caboo.se/122434 ?
Nov 27 04:11:13 <Mmm810> Cool on gps maybe normal strength then i didn't buy for that only used once so far
Nov 27 04:11:24 <pumpkin> it doesn't explain how my libs are incompatible
Nov 27 04:11:27 <halley> Hm, what repo to try pygame?
Nov 27 04:11:47 <zerojay> I thought python was in the extras?
Nov 27 04:11:55 <Prez__> anyone else downloading n800 it2008 beta?
Nov 27 04:11:59 <halley> Not python, pygame.
Nov 27 04:12:10 <Prez__> trickling...
Nov 27 04:12:11 <zerojay> halley: Yes, it's included.
Nov 27 04:12:15 <doc|home> you know how the wifi seems to be uberpowerful? is it possible tp underclock it to conserve power?
Nov 27 04:12:19 <doc|home> *to
Nov 27 04:12:20 <halley> Oh!  Didn't expect that.
Nov 27 04:12:36 <pumpkin> hmm
Nov 27 04:12:37 <zerojay> I think it is, anyways.
Nov 27 04:12:41 <Mmm810> Not  hard for app menu but when you need it all the time it sucks no key slows you down
Nov 27 04:12:42 <K`zan> Prez__: Got it earlier and already installed :-), so far so good other than a lot of apps not ported yet.
Nov 27 04:12:43 <pumpkin> anyone have any dev help?
Nov 27 04:13:06 <elb> Prez__: people have been complaining about that all day
Nov 27 04:13:12 <Prez__> K`zan: cool... it is downloading incredibly slow..
Nov 27 04:13:19 <Prez__> 7 hours to go..
Nov 27 04:14:01 <doc|home> Prez__: http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3910524
Nov 27 04:14:15 <K`zan> Prez try the torrent:  Yes, that's the one :-) Thanks doc|home
Nov 27 04:14:20 <doc|home> :)
Nov 27 04:14:38 <K`zan> Anyone got an idea where hildon-fm1, hildon-libs0 and libdbus-1-2 might be found?
Nov 27 04:14:46 <zerojay> Extras?
Nov 27 04:14:47 <_Monkey> it has been said that Extras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free")
Nov 27 04:15:14 <pumpkin> :(
Nov 27 04:15:16 <K`zan> Anyone got an idea where hildon-fm1, hildon-libs0 and libdbus-1-2 might be found?  For the garnet-vm thingie...
Nov 27 04:15:27 <zerojay> Extras?
Nov 27 04:15:27 <_Monkey> Extras is http://repository.maemo.org/extras (distribution: "bora" for n800, "gregale" for n770) (components="free non-free")
Nov 27 04:15:32 <Prez__> much better, thanks
Nov 27 04:15:35 <Mmm810> How do you get like pipe symbol on term toolbar.  Tried entering pipe worked until i exited then no more...
Nov 27 04:16:21 <skiburr> Where can I download OS2008 bin file?  The one on Maemo.org is very slow.
Nov 27 04:16:44 <K`zan> Nope, got extras enabled, not there :-(.
Nov 27 04:17:01 <halley> Mmm810, hit Chr button, scroll around in the thing that pops up.
Nov 27 04:17:19 <K`zan> skiburr: http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3910524
Nov 27 04:17:27 <skiburr> ?
Nov 27 04:17:35 <K`zan> torrent - MUCH faster
Nov 27 04:17:46 <skiburr> o ok
Nov 27 04:18:09 <K`zan> I started downloading it about noon here and I'd still be downloading it from the maemo site...
Nov 27 04:18:22 <skiburr> thanks for the link
Nov 27 04:18:32 <K`zan> np, enjoy!
Nov 27 04:18:37 <Mmm810> Thanks i can put it on toolbar that way but doesn't keep working, perhaps bug
Nov 27 04:18:41 <skiburr> why don't you download it via torrent?
Nov 27 04:18:47 <K`zan> I did :-)
Nov 27 04:18:52 <skiburr> o ok
Nov 27 04:19:08 <K`zan> Hours ago now :-) Already installed and running.
Nov 27 04:20:48 <doc|home> hmmm, openssh ?
Nov 27 04:20:48 <_Monkey> hmmm... openssh is there hmm.
Nov 27 04:21:15 <doc|home> nobody saw me put that there, ok? :o
Nov 27 04:21:28 <Mmm810> Man no tab key either i hate tapping toolbar hehe
Nov 27 04:24:04 <skiburr> can I flash via windows xp?
Nov 27 04:24:09 <skiburr> or must be linux?
Nov 27 04:24:37 <doc|home> openssh anyone?
Nov 27 04:24:42 <zerojay> Windows is fine as well if you use the Nokia flasher.
Nov 27 04:25:00 <doc|home> ah, nm, found it
Nov 27 04:25:04 <halley> doc|home, openssh is in the maemo extras repo
Nov 27 04:25:08 <doc|home> yup
Nov 27 04:25:14 <doc|home> tks
Nov 27 04:25:34 <halley> My pygame script works.  Now to bang it into shape for use.
Nov 27 04:26:09 <halley> The device is 800x480, but if I don't go fullscreen, what window size should I ask for, to fit nicely in maemo?
Nov 27 04:26:34 <pumpkin_> I hate scratchbox
Nov 27 04:27:21 <K`zan> Well, that is a bit disappointing, the missing stuff for garnet :-(.
Nov 27 04:27:58 <K`zan> Sigh.
Nov 27 04:30:31 <pumpkin_> I ****ING HATE SCRATCHBOX
Nov 27 04:30:35 <pumpkin_> okay, I'm done :)
Nov 27 04:30:42 <skiburr> the win flasher is the 2007 version?
Nov 27 04:31:32 <zerojay> Download the bin file you need, then point the flasher to the bin file.
Nov 27 04:32:10 <skiburr> Nokia_Internet_Tablet_Software_Update_Wizard.exe
Nov 27 04:32:16 <zerojay> Yes.
Nov 27 04:32:22 <skiburr> o ok
Nov 27 04:32:56 <skiburr> 770 version?
Nov 27 04:33:03 <K`zan> I think I may be going back to 2007 again, sigh.
Nov 27 04:33:05 <zerojay> huh?
Nov 27 04:33:07 <skiburr> http://europe.nokia.com/nokia/0,8764,79636,00.html
Nov 27 04:33:17 <zerojay> K`zan: Why?
Nov 27 04:33:32 <K`zan> Missing libs on stuff I really COULD use...
Nov 27 04:33:48 <K`zan> In this case garnet-vm (palm stuff).
Nov 27 04:34:06 <Prez__> is anyone booting n800 from SD?
Nov 27 04:34:23 <Prez__> read it's supposed to be faster, worth it?
Nov 27 04:34:25 <K`zan> Next time I do this, I think there will have to be 150+ apps avail :).
Nov 27 04:34:52 <zerojay> Much rather have 2008 than sitting behind waiting on a few apps that may never be ported.
Nov 27 04:35:09 <Mmm810> I gather the tablet screens are made with touch by finger in mind, not just stylus.  If you add screen protecter does it interfere with tap by finger...
Nov 27 04:35:29 <K`zan> zerojay: Apparently: hildon-fm1, hildon-libs0 and libdbus-1-2 are not available for this one...
Nov 27 04:35:37 <doc|home> Mmm810: it's bound to :/
Nov 27 04:35:40 <K`zan> Perhaps I should have downloaded the one for the n810
Nov 27 04:35:48 <K`zan> Lemme try that.
Nov 27 04:35:51 <zerojay> Eh...
Nov 27 04:36:04 <zerojay> libdbus-1-2 should be part of the firmware already, I believe.
Nov 27 04:36:46 <zerojay> Actually, all of that should be.
Nov 27 04:37:07 <Mmm810> Ahh okay thanks im new to tablets so still getting used to idea it's actually ok to touch screen
Nov 27 04:37:22 <K`zan> zerojay: Apparently not here :-(.
Nov 27 04:37:32 <zerojay> Let me see what I have installed.
Nov 27 04:37:35 <K`zan> Missing those is why it barfed...
Nov 27 04:37:43 <zerojay> or better yet, where you installed garnet from.
Nov 27 04:38:26 <K`zan> Have to download the deb from them and install from file.
Nov 27 04:38:47 <K`zan> Guess I need to turn on red pill to see the nuts and bolts of what is installed here.
Nov 27 04:38:49 <zerojay> Yes, but which one did you take?
Nov 27 04:38:53 <K`zan> n800
Nov 27 04:39:02 <K`zan> Going for the n810 one now.
Nov 27 04:39:05 <zerojay> That's probably your error right there.
Nov 27 04:39:51 <K`zan> Got it, will let you know in a sec...
Nov 27 04:41:59 <doc|home> hmmm, I can't seem to ssh into my n800. neither rootme nor the password I set before flashing work
Nov 27 04:43:06 <halley> K`zan, you have an n810?
Nov 27 04:43:45 <K`zan> No, n800
Nov 27 04:44:20 <K`zan> Seem unable to copy from the system here to the SD card on the n800, wtf?!?
Nov 27 04:44:56 <doc|home> suggestions anynone?
Nov 27 04:45:18 <halley> doc|home, if you reflash, you have no openssh.
Nov 27 04:45:43 <halley> doc|home, if you installed openssh, you may need to reboot?
Nov 27 04:45:47 <doc|home> halley: I've installed it since
Nov 27 04:45:58 <doc|home> hmmm, ok, will try that, although sshd is responding as I'd expet
Nov 27 04:46:16 <halley> Oh, responding but not allowing login?
Nov 27 04:46:30 <Mmm810> Well on 810 u can get becomeroot here if u need root http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4&sort=hits&show_pck=136#136
Nov 27 04:46:50 <Prez__> or set to r&d mode and easy to get to root
Nov 27 04:46:58 <Mmm810> Rootme didn't work on my 810
Nov 27 04:47:30 <halley> Has anyone used the maemo cjk support?
Nov 27 04:48:01 <K`zan> zerojay: OK, the n810 one worked on the n800.  Safe to assume at this point I want n810 apps and not n800?
Nov 27 04:48:26 <halley> wb, GeneralAntilles.
Nov 27 04:48:34 <zerojay> K`zan: Until the final update is out, I would imagine.
Nov 27 04:48:55 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks, swapping drives around
Nov 27 04:49:00 <GeneralAntilles> Just added another TB
Nov 27 04:49:07 <halley> GeneralAntilles, played with maemoCJK.garage.maemo.org ?
Nov 27 04:49:10 <K`zan> zerojay: OK, thanks.  This is kind of confusing ATM :)
Nov 27 04:49:21 <GeneralAntilles> Nope, halley.
Nov 27 04:49:25 <doc|home> ok, reboot, still giving me permission denied :/
Nov 27 04:50:10 <zerojay> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gontacts/
Nov 27 04:50:15 <zerojay> Might be interesting to some of you.
Nov 27 04:50:19 <halley> doc|home, you are trying to log in as user@ or root@ ?
Nov 27 04:50:20 <skiburr> is OS2008 beta working ok?
Nov 27 04:50:25 <doc|home> halley: root
Nov 27 04:50:33 <Mmm810> Install Becomeroot changepass?
Nov 27 04:50:38 <halley> doc|home, may not be allowed; try user@
Nov 27 04:50:56 <halley> doc|home, by default, openssh on other platforms has config that disallows root@
Nov 27 04:51:06 <doc|home> Mmm810: would rather not install r&d stuff if possible but will remember that as a last resort, thanks
Nov 27 04:51:10 <doc|home> halley: thanks, will try that
Nov 27 04:51:14 <K`zan> This thing may only work with the wincrap version of palm desktop :-(.
Nov 27 04:51:57 <Mmm810> Openssh allows it by default i installed yesterday had to change to no in config myself
Nov 27 04:52:23 <doc|home> no luck
Nov 27 04:53:03 <|R> halley : I'm installing it for Gjiten right now... damn it's big ;)
Nov 27 04:53:22 <halley> |R, on n810 rom?
Nov 27 04:54:05 <|R> ah uh non...
Nov 27 04:54:08 <|R> n800/2007
Nov 27 04:54:08 <halley> |R, what repo is Gjiten?
Nov 27 04:54:21 <|R> gjiten.garage.maemo.org
Nov 27 04:55:18 <halley> Yeah, n810 just refused the n800 single-click.
Nov 27 04:55:23 * halley sighs.
Nov 27 04:56:19 <pumpkin_> what does it mean when apt-get says 89 not upgraded
Nov 27 04:56:23 <skiburr> Anybody have problems with OS2008 N800?
Nov 27 04:56:25 <pumpkin_> why isn't it upgrading stuff?
Nov 27 04:56:40 <GeneralAntilles> Nope, skiburr.
Nov 27 04:56:47 <|R> halley : of gjiten or cjk ?
Nov 27 04:57:04 <halley> cjk
Nov 27 04:57:06 <skiburr> I just flashed my N800
Nov 27 04:57:10 <skiburr> looking good
Nov 27 04:57:14 <|R> yeah, well the install references a non existing package
Nov 27 04:57:32 <|R> it tries to install maemo-japanese-support instead of maemo-japanese-support-n800 in my case
Nov 27 04:58:40 <Mmm810> Is anyone using claws-mail, is it buggy..
Nov 27 04:59:08 <pupnik> yes
Nov 27 04:59:19 <pumpkin_> blah
Nov 27 04:59:26 <K`zan> Great gotta run wincrap to sync garnet.
Nov 27 04:59:28 <K`zan> ARGHHHHH
Nov 27 04:59:33 <pumpkin_> why is it easier for me to develop on a closed, undocumented platform like the iphone than it is on maemo :(
Nov 27 04:59:52 <pupnik> trollish comment
Nov 27 05:00:02 <pumpkin_> sorry, but I'm really frustrated with it right now
Nov 27 05:00:17 <K`zan> Welcome to my world pumpkin_ :-), this too shall pass.
Nov 27 05:00:42 <pumpkin_> :)
Nov 27 05:00:46 <pupnik> pumpkin_: you are unable to apt-get update?
Nov 27 05:00:52 <K`zan> methinketh garnet goes in the crapper, NOTHING is worth running wincrap for.
Nov 27 05:01:18 <pumpkin_> I'm unable to get libcurl working, which led to me deleting stuff, which led to a load of packages being removed, and so on :)
Nov 27 05:01:28 <pumpkin_> so I restored my snapshot of my vm
Nov 27 05:01:33 <pupnik> i have a libcurl built
Nov 27 05:01:34 <pupnik> i think
Nov 27 05:01:37 <pumpkin_> and in doing so lost a day of work
Nov 27 05:01:41 <pumpkin_> there's a libcurl in apt
Nov 27 05:01:48 <K`zan> No, they just couldn't use the USB port...
Nov 27 05:01:58 <Mmm810> Thanks hmm maybe ill see if full source for oss-email is available. I want some changes
Nov 27 05:02:00 <K`zan> Growl, snarl, grumble...
Nov 27 05:02:14 <K`zan> Back to having to port jpilot...
Nov 27 05:03:14 <pumpkin_> what's the point of having both SDK_x86 and SDK_ARMEL?
Nov 27 05:03:36 <pumpkin_> my main issue was that the libcurl I had installed x86
Nov 27 05:03:43 <pumpkin_> and my armel linker refused to touch it
Nov 27 05:04:04 <pumpkin_> X86 is just for testing locally?
Nov 27 05:04:44 <pupnik> yes
Nov 27 05:04:48 <pupnik> and profiling
Nov 27 05:04:49 <_Monkey> somebody said profiling was generating statistics about how much time a program spends in different routines
Nov 27 05:04:55 <pumpkin_> yup
Nov 27 05:05:20 <pumpkin_> *sigh*
Nov 27 05:05:26 <pumpkin_> ah well, a long night awaits me :P
Nov 27 05:07:10 <doc|home> man, why can't libgdbm just be part of the normal install? :/
Nov 27 05:07:14 <doc|home> or repo rather
Nov 27 05:09:42 <pumpkin_> is it just me, or is repository.maemo.org really slow right now?
Nov 27 05:09:49 <pumpkin_> I'm getting a few kbps out of it :-/
Nov 27 05:09:54 <milhouse> not just you
Nov 27 05:10:12 <doc|home> *.maemo.org have been kinda sucky today :/
Nov 27 05:10:13 <milhouse> whole of maemo.org is on a go slow - the servers must be based in France
Nov 27 05:10:33 <milhouse> s/servers/server/
Nov 27 05:10:33 <infobot> milhouse meant: whole of maemo.org is on a go slow - the server must be based in France
Nov 27 05:10:37 <milhouse> :)
Nov 27 05:10:55 <doc|home> heh
Nov 27 05:10:59 <pumpkin_> lol, that bot actually performs the replacement for you?
Nov 27 05:11:11 <milhouse> aye
Nov 27 05:11:12 <pumpkin_> s/replacement/replace
Nov 27 05:11:16 <pumpkin_> s/replacement/replace/
Nov 27 05:11:17 <infobot> pumpkin_ meant: s/replace/replace
Nov 27 05:11:19 <pumpkin_> lol
Nov 27 05:11:21 <milhouse> but not if you forget the trailing slash :)
Nov 27 05:13:59 <pumpkin_> :)
Nov 27 05:14:08 <pumpkin_> s/pumpkin_/pumpkin/
Nov 27 05:14:12 <pumpkin> sweet
Nov 27 05:14:24 <doc|home> lol
Nov 27 05:14:35 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 05:14:51 <doc|home> goddamn it, I have an n800! stop asking me if I want to enable ggps
Nov 27 05:16:00 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 27 05:17:10 <halley> Gee, I'm 50% on the -19 rom download.
Nov 27 05:17:34 <GeneralAntilles> Probably not a worthwhile upgrade, anyway. ;)
Nov 27 05:18:07 <halley> I know, but I have to work through the process once and put down my notes.  The instructions all over the web are so scattered!
Nov 27 05:18:52 <GeneralAntilles> For flashing?
Nov 27 05:18:58 <GeneralAntilles> It's super easy. :\
Nov 27 05:18:59 <oil> anyone know how to pass gps information to the maemo-mapper from the command line?
Nov 27 05:19:05 <halley> For the whole "box to usable" sequence.
Nov 27 05:19:25 <GeneralAntilles> That's even easier with OS2008
Nov 27 05:19:31 <GeneralAntilles> Just make a backup and let it do it for you.
Nov 27 05:19:45 <halley> So the new backup will backup stuff like mce.ini?
Nov 27 05:19:55 <halley> Not just ~/ ?
Nov 27 05:20:12 <GeneralAntilles> Not mce.ini
Nov 27 05:20:18 <pumpkin> so I can't seem to get 3.2 upgraded
Nov 27 05:20:23 <halley> See, "box to usable"  ;)
Nov 27 05:20:57 <halley> I also have to figure out the Japanese input methods, etc.
Nov 27 05:21:32 <pumpkin> nihongo wa muzukashii
Nov 27 05:22:03 <pumpkin> hanasanai hoo ga ii :P
Nov 27 05:22:39 <halley> Well anyone could do romaji.
Nov 27 05:22:56 <pumpkin> I can do kotoeri on my mac, too
Nov 27 05:23:00 <pumpkin> never tried on the n800 though
Nov 27 05:23:01 <halley> 日本語が欲しいです。
Nov 27 05:23:39 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 05:23:48 <pumpkin> 僕も
Nov 27 05:24:25 <GeneralAntilles> Could wikipedia maybe find a less horrifying picture? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Japanese_keyboards.jpg
Nov 27 05:24:27 * GeneralAntilles pukes.
Nov 27 05:24:39 <pumpkin> lol
Nov 27 05:24:57 <doc|home> :/
Nov 27 05:25:00 <unique311> wtf
Nov 27 05:25:08 <halley> In terms of the bloody scalp bits in the keyboard, or just the keyboard layout itself?
Nov 27 05:25:09 <K`zan> Proibably, but they would have to work at it :)
Nov 27 05:25:11 <astro76> is that blood?
Nov 27 05:25:16 <unique311> so it looks like its going to take 5 hours to dl the firmware for the n800
Nov 27 05:25:27 <unique311> guess alot of people must be dl it right now
Nov 27 05:25:27 <doc|home> unique311: see topic
Nov 27 05:25:52 <K`zan> unique311: That and the site sucks anyway :-(.
Nov 27 05:26:07 <K`zan> TORRENT!
Nov 27 05:26:08 <GeneralAntilles> http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3910524 :P
Nov 27 05:26:12 <unique311> got it
Nov 27 05:26:17 <halley> Anyway, sleepy time.
Nov 27 05:26:21 <unique311> so nokia don't mind the torrent?
Nov 27 05:26:25 <doc|home> does mplayer work on the n810?
Nov 27 05:26:46 <doc|home> er, sorry, 2008
Nov 27 05:26:47 <GeneralAntilles> I doubt they know about it.
Nov 27 05:26:49 <halley> unique311, whether they mind or not, the md5sums are listed.
Nov 27 05:27:06 <GeneralAntilles> But if they didn't want people mirroring it, they should probably have a less-shitty server. ;)
Nov 27 05:27:56 <unique311> don't understand, speed has always been great on the past firmware dls.
Nov 27 05:28:12 <GeneralAntilles> They're getting smashed and their servers suck. :P
Nov 27 05:28:19 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly, their servers suck.
Nov 27 05:28:32 <halley> Have we mentioned that their servers suck?
Nov 27 05:28:44 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, yeah, and their servers suck.
Nov 27 05:28:46 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously
Nov 27 05:29:01 <GeneralAntilles> It's not that hard to put together servers that don't suck.
Nov 27 05:29:14 <|R> anyone tried n800-2007 -> n800-2008b video chat? it fails with a friend here...
Nov 27 05:29:15 <GeneralAntilles> It's as easy as throwing dollars at it until capacity is meets demand.
Nov 27 05:29:30 <GeneralAntilles> *-is
Nov 27 05:29:31 <unique311> mlol
Nov 27 05:29:37 <lopz> re
Nov 27 05:30:18 <Prez__> K`zan: how did restore of settings work with it2008 beta?
Nov 27 05:30:20 <unique311> GeneralAntilles, u lucky the die hard nokia employees are not in here to defend nokia
Nov 27 05:30:39 <GeneralAntilles> It's even more baffling that they do their site testing on the live site. :\
Nov 27 05:30:59 <unique311> if this update is screwed, i'll just go back to n810's firmware.
Nov 27 05:31:05 <pupnik_> i figure they're kind of relaxed about it all
Nov 27 05:31:07 <pupnik_> which i like
Nov 27 05:31:16 <unique311> both of my cards got picked up on the latest n810
Nov 27 05:31:16 <pupnik_> oh server's slow?  oh well
Nov 27 05:31:21 <unique311> so that made me happy
Nov 27 05:31:33 <pupnik_> you got one?
Nov 27 05:31:58 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100590&postcount=159
Nov 27 05:32:04 <GeneralAntilles> Well, it doesn't get more authoritative than that.
Nov 27 05:32:23 <GeneralAntilles> Still, you gotta dig Nokia and maemo, despite their shitty servers. :p
Nov 27 05:32:53 <doc|home> youtube is only jsut watcheable
Nov 27 05:33:05 <GeneralAntilles> Still helps to let it load.
Nov 27 05:33:13 <GeneralAntilles> Then it's fine.
Nov 27 05:33:30 <doc|home> so, er, then should we be posting that torrent link to people?
Nov 27 05:33:37 <pumpkin> soooooo
Nov 27 05:33:40 <doc|home> they could have an eula for the .torrent
Nov 27 05:33:46 <|R> haha
Nov 27 05:34:05 <|R> "do you agree to d/l a torrent from thepiratebay.org approved by nokia?"
Nov 27 05:34:07 <|R> that would rock :)
Nov 27 05:34:13 * doc|home whistles innocently
Nov 27 05:34:20 <doc|home> |R: heh, why not? :)
Nov 27 05:34:23 <unique311> so youtube playback on the new beta firmware for the n800 still suck?
Nov 27 05:34:26 <GeneralAntilles> Stop making my job harder. :P
Nov 27 05:34:33 <GeneralAntilles> Works fine over here.
Nov 27 05:34:34 <doc|home> unique311: nope, it's watchable
Nov 27 05:34:45 <doc|home> better than it was, skips a little sometimes
Nov 27 05:34:54 <unique311> watchable, don't like that
Nov 27 05:35:02 <unique311> is is on the n810's level.
Nov 27 05:35:05 <doc|home> yeah, that's youtube though :)
Nov 27 05:35:22 <pumpkin> [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~] > file /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/libcurl.so.4.0.0
Nov 27 05:35:32 <pumpkin>  /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/libcurl.so.4.0.0: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped
Nov 27 05:35:34 <unique311> i already see 2 flashes in my future
Nov 27 05:35:43 <pumpkin> anyone know what to do about that?
Nov 27 05:36:26 <GeneralAntilles> "not stripped"
Nov 27 05:36:30 <GeneralAntilles> May it wants you to run it naked?
Nov 27 05:36:33 <GeneralAntilles> *be
Nov 27 05:36:39 <pumpkin> nah, the fact that it's Intel 80386 and not arm
Nov 27 05:37:23 <unique311> maybe nokia should have a private tracker, like most linux distro's do for those dvd image downlaods.
Nov 27 05:37:45 <unique311> and place the torrent link after the eula check.
Nov 27 05:38:10 <unique311> that would work out, and be completely legal.
Nov 27 05:38:46 <pumpkin> anyone have any idea?
Nov 27 05:40:02 <unique311> anyways just dl that torrent in less than 5 minutes.
Nov 27 05:40:19 <unique311> much faster than the 5 hours showing on the regular dl
Nov 27 05:40:32 <unique311> 6*
Nov 27 05:40:36 <pupnik_> "Ever since I quit running from girls I've understood that the world is a very subjective place." - Texrat
Nov 27 05:40:53 <pumpkin> :(
Nov 27 05:41:06 <pumpkin> my curl libs are the wrong arch
Nov 27 05:41:06 <pupnik_> pumpkin: yes
Nov 27 05:41:42 <pupnik_> yeah you want arm stuff in armel sbox target :)
Nov 27 05:41:46 <unique311> pupnik, you related to pumpkin by any chance?
Nov 27 05:41:52 <unique311> ;)
Nov 27 05:42:06 <pumpkin> lol
Nov 27 05:42:19 <pupnik_> surely yes
Nov 27 05:42:20 <pumpkin> pupnik_: how can I get arm stuff in my armel sbox target? :) :) :)
Nov 27 05:42:33 <pumpkin> that underscore at the end of his name
Nov 27 05:42:36 <pumpkin> is my missing m
Nov 27 05:42:37 <pupnik_> set up a new target with the menu
Nov 27 05:42:38 <pumpkin> and then he's my anagram
Nov 27 05:42:45 <konttori> I'm going to meet some nokia legal (very much related to todays discussion). I will ask whether torrent could be an option in the future.
Nov 27 05:42:48 <unique311> when i first saw the nick in here. i thought pupnik had a nick change.
Nov 27 05:42:48 <pupnik_> then install an armel rootstrap and choose your cpu transparency
Nov 27 05:42:53 <Prez__> anyone restored backup settings from IT2007 into new IT2008?
Nov 27 05:43:17 <pumpkin> what devkits should I put on?
Nov 27 05:43:20 <pupnik_> konttori: posisbly but then anyone can share the torrent file and bypass the ID check
Nov 27 05:43:31 <unique311> konttori, it should, especiall if the torrent is hosted after the eula check.
Nov 27 05:43:44 <pupnik_> pumpkin: i have older one here not 3.x
Nov 27 05:43:47 <unique311> private trackers.
Nov 27 05:43:50 <pumpkin> ah ok
Nov 27 05:43:51 <konttori> anyone can share it on their ftp site http site or whatnot now. I don't see the difference
Nov 27 05:44:14 <pupnik_> pumpkin: debian, cputransp
Nov 27 05:44:21 <pumpkin> yeah, done those
Nov 27 05:44:23 <skiburr> hum.. on the beta version, OS2008 can someone access the "Download" page on maemo.org?  N800 - OS2008
Nov 27 05:44:32 <pumpkin> now trying to navigate the curses menu to tell it where to grab the rootstrap
Nov 27 05:44:43 <pupnik_> pumpkin: then you must have gotten the wrong root filesystem unpacked into it
Nov 27 05:44:50 <unique311> should be a way to keep people who do the eula check to dl only
Nov 27 05:44:57 <pumpkin> hmm, I just used the 3.1 installer followed by the 3.2 installer
Nov 27 05:45:00 <pumpkin> haven't done anything myself yet
Nov 27 05:45:02 <konttori> I suppose if you don't register to tracker, nokia servers wouldn't send you any packages, so the result should be same legal wise.
Nov 27 05:45:03 <pumpkin> just the automated scripts
Nov 27 05:45:35 <GeneralAntilles> Prez__, yes, works fine. The only stumbling point would be if you've messed with the prefs.js for MicroB.
Nov 27 05:45:43 <unique311> konttori, they can share it, but certain private trackers don't alllow dl, even if you dl the torrent file.
Nov 27 05:46:10 <konttori> true
Nov 27 05:46:57 <Prez__> GeneralAntilles: nope, so here I go, time to flash to IT2008
Nov 27 05:47:43 <pumpkin> pupnik_: the install script claims I don't need to do the rootstrap myself
Nov 27 05:47:46 <pumpkin> but I guess it's wrong
Nov 27 05:47:49 <unique311> konttori, bring up the money nokia would save on bandwidth cost, they will look into it.. ;)
Nov 27 05:47:51 <pumpkin> or it messed up somehow
Nov 27 05:48:43 <|R> is there something that is known to conflict with rtcomm beta? i just realised that i couldn't hear what the other was saying even though i can hear sounds from the OS and he can hear me...
Nov 27 05:48:50 <pupnik_> pumpkin: ok i don't think i've used that script - you should be able to set up another target without reinstalling scratchbox
Nov 27 05:49:02 <pumpkin> pupnik_: nope, re-extracted the armel rootstrap
Nov 27 05:49:03 <|R> (it was wokring well 2 weeks ago last time i checked..)
Nov 27 05:49:07 <skiburr> I can't access "Download" page on OS2008.  Browser just exits.
Nov 27 05:49:08 <pumpkin> and I still have x86 libcurl :-/
Nov 27 05:49:15 <skiburr> maemo.org
Nov 27 05:49:46 <oil> konttori: do you take bug reports for ukmp in this channel as well ;)
Nov 27 05:49:51 <pupnik_> pumpkin: only x86 libcurl?  the rest of the libs are armel?
Nov 27 05:49:55 <pumpkin> hmm
Nov 27 05:49:57 <konttori> sure.
Nov 27 05:49:57 <pumpkin> haven't checked
Nov 27 05:50:05 <pumpkin> it's just the one that fails in my make
Nov 27 05:50:24 <konttori> although there is a bugzilla for ukmp in here: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?atid=945&group_id=234&func=browse
Nov 27 05:50:57 <oil> konttori: I wrote this one, but to wrong forum. https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum.php?thread_id=2072&forum_id=905 I guess, I should change it to the bugzilla
Nov 27 05:51:02 <GeneralAntilles> konttori, flew out to California and back for Thanksgiving with UKMP. It was a pleasure, thanks. :)
Nov 27 05:51:17 <konttori> hey, if anyone has a fresh install of n800 firmware, could you try to install ukmp: https://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/ukmp/
Nov 27 05:51:36 <konttori> there was a problem with missing dependencies some time ago.
Nov 27 05:51:44 <GeneralAntilles> I believe I had to enable Bora Extras.
Nov 27 05:52:05 <konttori> GeneralAntilles: Good to hear that you enjoyed it.
Nov 27 05:52:42 <konttori> ahh. I had to enable repository.maemo.org (not extras). Ahh.. I'll just then work out the .install to contain the repository.maemo.org.
Nov 27 05:53:04 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, actually, it wasn't extras.
Nov 27 05:53:10 <GeneralAntilles> But, Bora, yes.
Nov 27 05:53:26 <GeneralAntilles> libgdbm3, I think.
Nov 27 05:53:37 <konttori> oil: ahh.. you have the depth issue. I recently lowered the depth. I guess I should raise it back to the previous depth.
Nov 27 05:53:59 <konttori> you can do so from the python code easily as well if you are interested in fixing it immediately
Nov 27 05:54:09 <pumpkin> this is effing annoying :(
Nov 27 05:54:17 <oil> konttori: which file?
Nov 27 05:54:21 <konttori> I think that library exists in many places BUT extras ;)
Nov 27 05:54:44 <konttori> just edit /usr/bin/ukmp
Nov 27 05:55:00 <konttori> ahh.. no. edit /usr/bin/MediaCenter.py
Nov 27 05:55:34 <oil> ok. ukmp file was kind of a short :)
Nov 27 05:55:57 <Prez__> flash went well
Nov 27 05:56:20 <doc|home> heeeheeeheee
Nov 27 05:56:28 * doc|home just got imap working for the first time :D
Nov 27 05:56:28 <oil> ah. there is also the definition of the memory-card used. I'm having normally mmc2 installed and mmc1 missing.
Nov 27 05:56:39 <doc|home> flashing button is a great idea
Nov 27 05:58:07 <skiburr> wow
Nov 27 05:58:15 <skiburr> youtube is much faster
Nov 27 05:58:35 <Prez__> wow
Nov 27 05:58:41 <Prez__> IT2008 looks great!
Nov 27 05:58:51 <skiburr> yeah
Nov 27 05:59:30 <doc|home> if I use server.domain.tld:543 for example for outgoing smtp server, is there any reason it shouldn't work (given that the connection works from another computer)?
Nov 27 06:00:01 <Prez__> facebook still looks screwy... doesn't fit
Nov 27 06:00:08 * |R thinks gjiden+cjk is unusable :|
Nov 27 06:00:14 <konttori> oil: do you have the 1.70 version of ukmp?
Nov 27 06:00:34 <oil> konttori: depth is definen on class songProcessor if (test and depth<5): ?
Nov 27 06:00:41 <konttori> yeah
Nov 27 06:00:42 <oil> konttori: yes.
Nov 27 06:01:22 <konttori> Then just by increasing that to 7 should fix your problem
Nov 27 06:01:24 <skiburr> Prez___
Nov 27 06:01:40 <oil> konttori: thanks. and done. now testing
Nov 27 06:02:04 <Prez__> gmail looks better
Nov 27 06:02:14 <K`zan> Night folks...
Nov 27 06:02:33 <Prez__> is this thing faster? seems faster
Nov 27 06:02:51 <GeneralAntilles> 'night, K`zan.
Nov 27 06:03:09 <skiburr> Prez___ do me a favor.  check if you can view the "Download" page on Maemo.org because on my N800 - OS2008 Beta, it exits.
Nov 27 06:03:34 <Segnale007> Hi there
Nov 27 06:03:35 <_Monkey> hey, Segnale007
Nov 27 06:03:36 <skiburr> Browser just exits
Nov 27 06:03:45 <Prez__> going
Nov 27 06:03:54 <Segnale007> heya <_Monkey>
Nov 27 06:04:10 <Prez__> i´m there
Nov 27 06:04:12 <konttori> oil: did it fix the issue you had?
Nov 27 06:04:17 <Prez__> no crash so far
Nov 27 06:04:33 <skiburr> hum...
Nov 27 06:05:10 <oil> konttori: I need a bit more time to do testing. I have managed to remove all the files on the memorycard.
Nov 27 06:06:04 <konttori> ahh... ok. no probs.
Nov 27 06:06:12 * konttori leaves
Nov 27 06:06:18 <keesj> bye
Nov 27 06:07:55 <Prez__> is the n800 supposed to be faster? seems quite a bit snappier..
Nov 27 06:08:01 <Prez__> using it2008
Nov 27 06:09:18 <skiburr> yeah
Nov 27 06:09:25 <skiburr> I noticed it
Nov 27 06:09:38 <skiburr> humm.... my browser still crashing
Nov 27 06:13:55 <doc|home> Prez__: it is faster
Nov 27 06:14:40 <doc|home> the new image supports cpu throttling so they throttle to 190Mhz and then it can bump up to 400Mhz instead of just running at 300 all the time
Nov 27 06:14:43 <doc|home> (iirc)
Nov 27 06:15:17 <GeneralAntilles> 165 and 330
Nov 27 06:15:18 <_Monkey> 495
Nov 27 06:15:53 <Segnale007> I have just pay my new N800 on ebat
Nov 27 06:16:15 <Segnale007> I have take it in the States
Nov 27 06:16:18 <Prez__> cool..
Nov 27 06:16:24 <Segnale007> pay 220$
Nov 27 06:16:30 <Segnale007> it's nothing
Nov 27 06:16:40 <Prez__> is there an xterm fro IT2008?
Nov 27 06:16:45 <GeneralAntilles> Why, Segnale007?
Nov 27 06:16:45 <Segnale007> in italy it cost 260?
Nov 27 06:16:59 <Segnale007> why what ?
Nov 27 06:17:30 <Segnale007> wht I have take it in States ?
Nov 27 06:17:45 <Segnale007> because it coast nothing there
Nov 27 06:17:57 <Segnale007> in Italy cost 260 ?
Nov 27 06:18:06 <Segnale007> aroud 400$
Nov 27 06:18:09 <GeneralAntilles> Selling?
Nov 27 06:18:12 <Segnale007> and it is brand now
Nov 27 06:18:14 <Segnale007> yah
Nov 27 06:18:15 <oil> konttori: ukmp can find now all the files. thanks!
Nov 27 06:18:17 <pumpkin> che dit'ar culo
Nov 27 06:18:29 <Segnale007> with 1 year of warranty Nokia
Nov 27 06:18:33 <Segnale007> lol
Nov 27 06:18:41 <Segnale007> sei italiano ?
Nov 27 06:18:51 <Segnale007> ops ..
Nov 27 06:19:24 <pumpkin> more or less :)
Nov 27 06:19:41 <Segnale007> but .. now .. I have to wait around 10 days
Nov 27 06:19:48 <Segnale007> for get it in Italy
Nov 27 06:19:57 <Segnale007> it is in Florida right now
Nov 27 06:19:58 <oil> with what speed are you able to download the os2008 and where? I'm getting 3KB/s to Thailand.. it did speedup from 2.5 :)
Nov 27 06:20:15 <Segnale007> pumpkin
Nov 27 06:20:19 <Segnale007> I'm Italian
Nov 27 06:20:25 <Segnale007> but between
Nov 27 06:20:26 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 06:20:29 <Segnale007> 1 month
Nov 27 06:20:32 <GeneralAntilles> oil: http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3910524
Nov 27 06:20:33 <Segnale007> I come back to Toronto
Nov 27 06:20:37 <Segnale007> fuck Italy
Nov 27 06:20:42 <pumpkin> ah :)
Nov 27 06:20:54 <pumpkin> I'm not italian but I've lived in rome most of my life
Nov 27 06:20:59 <Segnale007> I have lived for 7 months in Toronto
Nov 27 06:21:03 <Segnale007> :/
Nov 27 06:21:06 <pumpkin> and as I'm sure you've determined, I'm slightly annoyed
Nov 27 06:21:08 <pumpkin> :P
Nov 27 06:21:15 <Segnale007> yah
Nov 27 06:21:22 <Segnale007> I like Canada
Nov 27 06:21:26 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 06:21:35 <Segnale007> and all conuntry in North America
Nov 27 06:21:39 <oil> GeneralAntilles: thanks. I'll try that one (but first need to learn how to download my first torrent :)
Nov 27 06:21:41 <Segnale007> too States
Nov 27 06:22:52 <[pablo]_> anyone else unable to watch youtube videos on the latest os2008 for n810? it's telling me that i dont have flash
Nov 27 06:23:17 <Segnale007> but I think .. the country's in the States is so big for me
Nov 27 06:23:25 <Segnale007> just I lose myself in Toronto
Nov 27 06:23:29 <Segnale007> and isn't big
Nov 27 06:26:11 <Prez__> what repositories do u guys recommend for it2008 on n800?
Nov 27 06:27:12 <Segnale007> but the default os running on n800 is it2007 ?
Nov 27 06:27:27 <Segnale007> I don't know more about it ..
Nov 27 06:28:16 <toresbe> Segnale007: IIRC, N800s ship with 2006, actually
Nov 27 06:28:26 <toresbe> (mine did, at least)
Nov 27 06:28:36 <GeneralAntilles> Prez__: http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4
Nov 27 06:28:42 <Segnale007> ah .. I see
Nov 27 06:28:56 <GeneralAntilles> Erm, wtf are you talking about, toresbe?
Nov 27 06:29:00 <Segnale007> ty man ..
Nov 27 06:29:04 <GeneralAntilles> OS2006 is 770 only.
Nov 27 06:29:12 <Segnale007> ..
Nov 27 06:29:15 <toresbe> GeneralAntilles: *shrug* I can only tell you what mine shipped with
Nov 27 06:29:17 <GeneralAntilles> N800's currently and have always shipped with OS2007
Nov 27 06:29:27 <GeneralAntilles> Trust me, it didn't ship with OS2006.
Nov 27 06:29:35 <GeneralAntilles> OS2006 WILL NOT WORK on an N800.
Nov 27 06:29:38 <toresbe> Trust me, it did.
Nov 27 06:29:44 <GeneralAntilles> Trust me, it wont work.
Nov 27 06:29:54 <Segnale007> :/
Nov 27 06:29:55 <toresbe> Look, it's my bloody N800, I know what it ran.
Nov 27 06:30:03 <Prez__> GeneralAntilles: thanks... just jabbered link to n800 :-)
Nov 27 06:30:13 <GeneralAntilles> Unless you happen to work for Nokia and have access to very early prototypes.
Nov 27 06:30:15 <GeneralAntilles> It ran OS2007
Nov 27 06:30:33 <toresbe> might have been something internal to Nokia, though, since I got my N800 through my cousin who works there
Nov 27 06:30:36 <milhouse> Comment from Quim about the speed/performance problems today (in case you haven't seen it yet): http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100590&postcount=159
Nov 27 06:32:04 <Segnale007> it internal hd is 4gb right ?
Nov 27 06:32:25 <oil> bittorrent does work well. (I always tought it was slow). 200KB/s. nice.
Nov 27 06:32:44 <Segnale007> it's enough 4gb for ur sw ?
Nov 27 06:32:56 <Segnale007> *OS
Nov 27 06:32:58 <GeneralAntilles> There aren't any internal HDs in Internet Tablet devices, Segnale007.
Nov 27 06:33:03 <|R> anyone had rtcomm not being able to play sound comming from the other end?
Nov 27 06:33:14 <Segnale007> ah
Nov 27 06:33:34 <skiburr> Am I the only one that has Browser crashing on "Download" page on Maemo.org?  N800 - OS2008
Nov 27 06:33:41 <GeneralAntilles> It's a NAT issue, |R.
Nov 27 06:34:21 <|R> GeneralAntilles : well, it worked before through nat... but even now i do n800 -> local gw asterisk -> local sip phone and it's the same :(
Nov 27 06:34:44 <|R> maybe i'm crazy uhm...
Nov 27 06:36:40 <milhouse> skiburr - did you restore your backup from OS2007?
Nov 27 06:36:42 <|R> no known conflicts were ever found between rtcomm and some other application?
Nov 27 06:36:46 <skiburr> flashing and not restoring 2007 to 2008 settings
Nov 27 06:36:52 <skiburr> yes
Nov 27 06:36:57 <skiburr> rechecking
Nov 27 06:37:00 <skiburr>  now...
Nov 27 06:37:32 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe Gizmo or Skype, |R.
Nov 27 06:37:50 <milhouse> Someone on IIT is saying they had the same problem when they restored their OS2007 backup - they suggest not restoring your backup
Nov 27 06:38:02 <milhouse> Here's their post: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=100607&postcount=162
Nov 27 06:38:25 <milhouse> Might be an idea to open a bug and attach your backup...
Nov 27 06:38:47 * |R is wondering what he has changed recently, if any, that could affect this :|
Nov 27 06:39:09 <Prez__> love this IT2008, seems like a big step up from IT2007...
Nov 27 06:39:23 <Prez__> look/feel plus speed..
Nov 27 06:40:09 <Segnale007> how have u upgrade it OS ?
Nov 27 06:40:25 <Segnale007> have u some link about ?
Nov 27 06:41:43 <skiburr> noce
Nov 27 06:41:45 <skiburr> nice
Nov 27 06:41:53 <skiburr> Milhouse, it works fine now
Nov 27 06:41:57 <skiburr> :)
Nov 27 06:42:30 <skiburr> hum... That is going to be a big problem for users that have many changes they wish to restore on OS2008
Nov 27 06:43:23 <unique311> skype is available...cool
Nov 27 06:43:30 <Segnale007> :)
Nov 27 06:43:37 <unique311> scratch that ,ol
Nov 27 06:43:40 <unique311> lol
Nov 27 06:45:04 <unique311> no skype for 2008 yet?
Nov 27 06:45:38 <Prez__> is mplayer out for it2008?
Nov 27 06:46:10 <milhouse> yes - check garage
Nov 27 06:46:17 <milhouse> @prez__
Nov 27 06:46:29 <milhouse> unique311 - yes... :)
Nov 27 06:46:31 <Segnale007> it working good with wpa2 ?
Nov 27 06:46:44 <Prez__> thanks
Nov 27 06:46:53 <unique311> so what am i doing wrong.
Nov 27 06:46:57 <unique311> it won't install.
Nov 27 06:47:12 <unique311> and its not telling me why in the app manager
Nov 27 06:47:21 <unique311> but i didn't try command line.
Nov 27 06:47:29 <unique311> let me try that and then complain
Nov 27 06:47:35 <unique311> sorry for being impatient
Nov 27 06:47:45 <milhouse> which version N800 OS2008 or N810 OS2008?
Nov 27 06:47:55 <unique311> n800
Nov 27 06:48:01 <milhouse> it doesn't install on N800 OS2008 - Skype do a brain dead version check and get it wrong
Nov 27 06:48:12 <unique311> ok
Nov 27 06:48:12 <milhouse> installs fine on N810 OS2008 on N800
Nov 27 06:48:34 <unique311> i just flashed the beta
Nov 27 06:49:18 <GeneralAntilles> The version check is broken
Nov 27 06:49:36 <GeneralAntilles> it checks the build number and ignores the build week.
Nov 27 06:49:41 <GeneralAntilles> as 1 < 19
Nov 27 06:49:45 <GeneralAntilles> It wont install
Nov 27 06:49:53 <milhouse> nah, doesn't work because Skype check the build week and build number, and have some code like "don't install if <build-week> lt 42 or <build-num> lt 19" and it's the last bit that's not very clever (-4 being less than 19)... :)
Nov 27 06:50:20 <unique311> so just wait, for a fix
Nov 27 06:50:35 <milhouse> report it in the Skype defect tracking system :)
Nov 27 06:50:46 <milhouse> (just for a laugh, that's all it's good for) ;)
Nov 27 06:50:54 <GeneralAntilles> What ever, it's broken. :P
Nov 27 06:50:54 <unique311> do a dpkg install
Nov 27 06:51:02 <unique311> should work?
Nov 27 06:51:27 <milhouse> might do - think it was suggested on itt but can't recall if it worked or not
Nov 27 06:51:32 <unique311> k
Nov 27 06:51:48 <milhouse> anyway... it's the same Skype as on OS2007 so unless you desperately need it you ain't missing much
Nov 27 06:52:41 <toresbe> what is actually new with OS2007 anyway?
Nov 27 06:52:45 <unique311> i purchased that unlimited 3 month deal
Nov 27 06:52:49 <toresbe> Apart from a superficial makeover?
Nov 27 06:52:50 <unique311> so it would come in handy.
Nov 27 06:52:57 <unique311> but i'll just use gizmo
Nov 27 06:53:48 <GeneralAntilles> OS2008, you mean, toresbe?
Nov 27 06:53:55 <toresbe> uh, yeah, heh
Nov 27 06:54:06 <GeneralAntilles> A whole big heaping shitload. :)
Nov 27 06:54:15 <toresbe> is there a site saying what somewhere?
Nov 27 06:54:29 <GeneralAntilles> It's on maemo.org
Nov 27 06:54:32 <GeneralAntilles> Google it.
Nov 27 06:54:46 <GeneralAntilles> Or I'll google it for you. http://maemo.org/development/sdks/api_changes_between_maemo_3_2_and_maemo_4_0.html
Nov 27 06:54:54 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly there.
Nov 27 06:55:00 <GeneralAntilles> The big stuff, anyway.
Nov 27 06:56:57 <GeneralAntilles> It's basically the biggest overall of ITOS yet.
Nov 27 06:57:55 <toresbe> GeneralAntilles: anything visible to the user?
Nov 27 06:58:06 <GeneralAntilles> A ton.
Nov 27 06:58:22 <GeneralAntilles> There isn't a single part of the system that hasn't been upgraded in some manner.
Nov 27 06:58:57 <toresbe> GeneralAntilles: i mean, anything visible to the user as a new feature?
Nov 27 06:59:38 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, a shitton.
Nov 27 06:59:44 <GeneralAntilles> As I've already said a number of times. :)
Nov 27 06:59:54 <toresbe> like? :)
Nov 27 07:00:34 <GeneralAntilles> Install it and find out?
Nov 27 07:00:36 <toresbe> I gave it a cursory glance and apart from the apps launcher couldn't really find anything
Nov 27 07:01:57 <GeneralAntilles> Whole new desktop arrangement, shiny new app manager, much improved SIP and Jabber, new Map application, new Media player, final release of MicroB.
Nov 27 07:02:00 <GeneralAntilles> There's a ton
Nov 27 07:02:05 <GeneralAntilles> Did you install it?
Nov 27 07:02:35 <GeneralAntilles> Also, the ability to clock to 400MHz under load.
Nov 27 07:03:00 <toresbe> admittedly didn't test the media player
Nov 27 07:03:22 <GeneralAntilles> Like I've said, there's pretty much nothing that hasn't been updated and improved.
Nov 27 07:03:31 <toresbe> contacts, my pet peeve :)
Nov 27 07:03:58 <GeneralAntilles> What's the problem there?
Nov 27 07:04:00 <toresbe> I had been running osso-rtcomm-beta, so... :)
Nov 27 07:04:03 <GeneralAntilles> They work great for me.
Nov 27 07:04:10 <toresbe> GeneralAntilles: I want the ability to store information like address
Nov 27 07:04:47 <GeneralAntilles> Try GPE?
Nov 27 07:05:21 <toresbe> I don't want to have to use third-party applications with incompatible address lists to store a home address.. :)
Nov 27 07:05:53 <GeneralAntilles> So you downgraded to OS2007?
Nov 27 07:06:09 <toresbe> nah, I'm not a terribly active user of my N800
Nov 27 07:06:30 <GeneralAntilles> How is the world could you not be?
Nov 27 07:06:40 <GeneralAntilles> The NIT have been the greatest mobile devices I've ever owned.
Nov 27 07:06:44 <GeneralAntilles> *+s
Nov 27 07:07:05 <toresbe> well, it lacks elementary PDA functionality
Nov 27 07:07:23 <GeneralAntilles> There's always the Garnet emulator
Nov 27 07:07:31 <toresbe> Garnet emulator?
Nov 27 07:07:33 <Prez__> someone said garage had mplayer for n800/it2008?  just tried to install latest .18 mplayer, got failed deps, hildon, dbus
Nov 27 07:07:39 <GeneralAntilles> I don't need PDA functionality, so that's never bothered me.
Nov 27 07:07:50 <GeneralAntilles> You need to add the Maemo Chinook devel repo.
Nov 27 07:08:12 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.access-company.com/products/gvm/
Nov 27 07:08:18 <truls> Most essential pda functionality i need is a todo
Nov 27 07:08:27 <truls> but right now i just use a bullet-list in notes
Nov 27 07:08:37 <toresbe> oh, a Trondheimite. Howdy.
Nov 27 07:08:52 <GeneralAntilles> Try duemonday, truls?
Nov 27 07:09:06 <truls> GeneralAntilles: no, it's good?
Nov 27 07:09:16 <GeneralAntilles> Seemed ok when I glanced over it.
Nov 27 07:09:26 <GeneralAntilles> alterego is also working on a Ruby todo app
Nov 27 07:09:26 <_Monkey> okay, GeneralAntilles.
Nov 27 07:09:28 <truls> i tried gpe, but didn't fit my usage
Nov 27 07:09:38 <truls> i might just port my own todo-app
Nov 27 07:09:39 <GeneralAntilles> GPE has a bit of feature bloat.
Nov 27 07:09:50 <GeneralAntilles> Talk to alterego about his if you see him about
Nov 27 07:09:55 <GeneralAntilles> it's looking quite nice.
Nov 27 07:10:03 <truls> ok
Nov 27 07:10:15 <truls> i might try making a linkable todo-thing
Nov 27 07:10:31 <truls> allowing a primary todo together with todo's for each "project"
Nov 27 07:10:45 <truls> and you can link in stuff from projects to your main todo-list
Nov 27 07:10:55 <GeneralAntilles> Might be better talking to alterego about it as a feature, rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. :)
Nov 27 07:11:15 <truls> having a list of entries isn't really reinventing the wheel though :)
Nov 27 07:11:23 <truls> a todo-list is pretty basic
Nov 27 07:11:37 <keesj> truls did you looks a maemopad+++++
Nov 27 07:11:55 <truls> yeah
Nov 27 07:12:10 <keesj> I would like some mindmap stuff
Nov 27 07:12:27 <truls> too many gripes with maemopad
Nov 27 07:12:31 <truls> +
Nov 27 07:13:24 <truls> you always have to have the root node, you can't rename nodes, deleting is kinda buggy, can't reorganize structure...
Nov 27 07:13:27 <truls> etc.
Nov 27 07:13:42 <keesj> yes, I understand
Nov 27 07:14:13 <truls> i like the concept of it though
Nov 27 07:14:35 <truls> right now i try to organize stuff a bit in the GettingThingsDone-way....
Nov 27 07:15:13 <truls> one directory for active Projects, one for Archive, one for Tickler (future stuff)
Nov 27 07:15:43 <truls> inside there you either have a text-file for a project, or a directory if the project warrants it
Nov 27 07:15:56 <truls> and projects can be moved between those three locations
Nov 27 07:16:31 <truls> in addition you have a list of current TODO-items and current Waiting-items, for stuff you are waiting for someone else's feedback/action etc.
Nov 27 07:16:59 <truls> so if I can link in items from the TODO of a specific project into the current TODO, i'm pretty much set ;)
Nov 27 07:17:04 <[pablo]_> anyone else unable to watch youtube videos on the latest os2008 for n810? it's telling me that i dont have flash
Nov 27 07:20:22 <Matt-W> whoa
Nov 27 07:20:28 <Matt-W> I just flashed my n800 with os2008
Nov 27 07:20:31 <Matt-W> it's pretty!
Nov 27 07:20:51 <timelyx> it's a beta
Nov 27 07:21:02 <Matt-W> I know
Nov 27 07:21:06 <Matt-W> It's still pretty
Nov 27 07:21:18 <VRe> Does somebody know what to do to get the menu smaller?
Nov 27 07:21:44 * timelyx sighs
Nov 27 07:21:47 <timelyx> people are idiots
Nov 27 07:22:46 <Prez__> with the cpu throttling on it2008 on n800, should battery last longer?
Nov 27 07:23:25 <timelyx> under what conditions?
Nov 27 07:23:38 <timelyx> if the device manages to stay in a *lower* speed than normal, maybe
Nov 27 07:24:01 <Prez__> timelyx: yes, assuming it is idling...
Nov 27 07:24:19 <timelyx> maybe :), but i'm a browser dev, i wouldn't know :)
Nov 27 07:24:55 <Prez__> and I agree with Matt-W, IT2008 is pretty on n800, very nice...
Nov 27 07:27:58 <[pablo]_> can someone try youtube on thier tablet and tell me if it works?
Nov 27 07:28:12 <timelyx> define youtube
Nov 27 07:28:29 <timelyx> flash-camera doesn't, that's a reported bug, you could find it yourself by searching bugs.maemo.org
Nov 27 07:28:34 <timelyx> playback generally does work
Nov 27 07:28:40 * timelyx hates users
Nov 27 07:31:46 <[pablo]_> watching videos
Nov 27 07:36:07 <lopz> bye
Nov 27 07:37:26 <[pablo]_> timelyx: here look http://flickr.com/photos/bobb/2067564421/
Nov 27 07:40:22 <timelyx> see the magnifying glass in the bottom right of the screen?
Nov 27 07:40:26 <timelyx> click it, click components
Nov 27 07:40:31 <timelyx> is flash checked?
Nov 27 07:43:02 <oil> with linux flasher it's possible to toggle between usb-host and usb-client modes. is it possible to do with command line on the n800 as well?
Nov 27 07:43:03 <[pablo]_> it wasn't, weird, thank you. perhaps it was the reflash
Nov 27 07:43:13 <timelyx> doubtful
Nov 27 07:43:37 <timelyx> thanks for playing, do figure out how to break the picture so people don't reach the conclusion you had
Nov 27 07:43:41 <timelyx> perhaps that site allows comments?
Nov 27 07:44:00 <timelyx> note: per spec, when we run out of memory, we're not allowed to tell the user
Nov 27 07:44:13 <timelyx> but we are required to react (including disabling things, like js and flash)
Nov 27 07:44:30 <timelyx> if you don't think that's fun, you're annoying :)
Nov 27 07:45:27 <[pablo]_> umm ok. why be so rude?
Nov 27 07:45:48 <timelyx> which part of that is rude?
Nov 27 07:46:05 <timelyx> personally, i deal with lots of "users" all of which make rude and annoying statements
Nov 27 07:46:08 <timelyx> "x is broken"
Nov 27 07:46:23 <timelyx> when in fact, on average "x is working as [poorly] designed"
Nov 27 07:46:26 <timelyx> it's not my fault.
Nov 27 07:46:36 <timelyx> but you can't think i'm happy hearing people whine that "x is broken"
Nov 27 07:46:54 <timelyx> they don't say "could someone please help me get X to do Y at site Z"
Nov 27 07:47:08 <timelyx> they also clearly don't read the help
Nov 27 07:47:22 <timelyx> (there's not much help, but there's enough help to document enabling and disabling plugins)
Nov 27 07:47:30 <timelyx> (and yes, i've read it and complained about it)
Nov 27 07:47:35 <timelyx> (and no, you haven't.)
Nov 27 07:47:50 <[pablo]_> it seemed pretty condescending, i've owned a tablet for all of 4 days and have been learning as much as i can
Nov 27 07:48:08 <timelyx> which part?
Nov 27 07:49:16 <[pablo]_> "i hate users" .. "thanks for playing" .. implying i'm annoying for asking a question
Nov 27 07:49:33 <timelyx> oh, only that part?
Nov 27 07:49:48 <[pablo]_> whatever
Nov 27 07:50:01 <[pablo]_> thanks for the help
Nov 27 07:50:22 <timelyx> the thanks for playing is meant in a friendly manner
Nov 27 07:50:26 <timelyx> it's thanks for playing along
Nov 27 07:50:35 <vegai> developing on maemo is rather irritating, I understand timelyx's sentiments pretty well
Nov 27 07:50:39 <timelyx> (following a set of steps for which you have no idea what they'd do)
Nov 27 07:50:56 <timelyx> for all you know, i could be giving you instructions to reformat your device
Nov 27 07:51:04 <timelyx> there's a significant amount of trust that you're giving
Nov 27 07:51:07 <vegai> I don't know if any other mobile platform is any better, though.
Nov 27 07:51:21 <timelyx> i suspect palm is better
Nov 27 07:51:24 <vegai> Palm seemed nice
Nov 27 07:51:26 <timelyx> they're more serious (business users)
Nov 27 07:51:27 <vegai> heh.
Nov 27 07:51:40 <[pablo]_> i'm not a typical user, i would know better than that i would hope
Nov 27 07:51:54 <timelyx> [pablo]_: our device is "quirky" at best
Nov 27 07:52:08 <timelyx> there could *easily* be a bug in browser that causes your device to brick, or reformat
Nov 27 07:52:09 <timelyx> or...
Nov 27 07:52:42 * timelyx frowns
Nov 27 07:53:10 <[pablo]_> yes i'm aware of that, but i think i would have run into that as much as i have read
Nov 27 07:54:31 <mariorz> as long as im on topic is there a way to get flash 9 to work in os 2007?
Nov 27 07:54:40 <timelyx> sure
Nov 27 07:54:46 <timelyx> the most recent version includes it
Nov 27 07:54:48 <timelyx> just flash to it
Nov 27 07:54:55 <timelyx> that's 3.2 aka -- no clue actually
Nov 27 07:55:03 <timelyx> or 3.2 w/ the mmc fix
Nov 27 07:55:15 <mariorz> how can i check what verion im running?
Nov 27 07:55:22 <mariorz> just flashed like 2 weeks ago?
Nov 27 07:55:25 <mariorz> -?
Nov 27 07:55:25 <_Monkey> well, - is there any reason why elf executables from os2006 would absolutely refuse to run on os 2005?
Nov 27 07:55:35 <milhouse> seems like restoring an os2007 backup causes browser instability in os2008... fingers crossed someone is about to file a bug with a backup for an attachment. :)
Nov 27 07:55:38 <timelyx> file:///etc/osso_software_version
Nov 27 07:55:41 <timelyx> in your browser should work
Nov 27 07:55:51 <mariorz> thx
Nov 27 07:55:55 <timelyx> milhouse: we have internal bugs, yes, please file
Nov 27 07:56:09 <milhouse> timelyx: i owe you an email reply :)
Nov 27 07:56:12 <pumpkin> timelyx: have a moment for help?
Nov 27 07:56:22 <timelyx> yeah, but one of you owes me some help too
Nov 27 07:56:40 <milhouse> hope it's not me :D
Nov 27 07:56:43 * timelyx is having a conversation w/ someone who insists on being right
Nov 27 07:56:53 <timelyx> milhouse: what's your email name? :)
Nov 27 07:56:55 <milhouse> fck is my brother on this channel???
Nov 27 07:56:59 <pumpkin> lol
Nov 27 07:56:59 <timelyx> heh
Nov 27 07:57:00 <milhouse> neil macleod
Nov 27 07:57:05 <timelyx> yeah, not you :)
Nov 27 07:57:14 <pumpkin> timelyx: so I'm trying to compile my program that uses libcurl
Nov 27 07:57:15 <milhouse> hurrah! need sleep...
Nov 27 07:57:22 <pumpkin> I need it on the n800, so I'm compiling it for armel
Nov 27 07:57:31 <pumpkin> but the libcurl on scratchbox
Nov 27 07:57:41 <pumpkin> regardless of whether I'm on armel target, is compiled for intel
Nov 27 07:57:47 <timelyx> heh
Nov 27 07:57:50 <mariorz> err sorry i meant for os2007 HE
Nov 27 07:57:57 <timelyx> um, i'd suggest you look into proper cross compilng
Nov 27 07:58:03 <timelyx> or alternatively, use --target=
Nov 27 07:58:05 <timelyx> for configure
Nov 27 07:58:09 <timelyx> instead of relying on autoconf
Nov 27 07:58:26 <pumpkin> oh, the compiler and linker are fine
Nov 27 07:58:27 <timelyx> depending on how a build system works, it can do the target detection on the wrong side of scratchbox
Nov 27 07:58:37 <pumpkin> it's not a build system, it's my own program
Nov 27 07:58:50 <pumpkin> all I'm using is curl-config --libs
Nov 27 07:58:54 <pumpkin> which returns the path to the libs
Nov 27 07:59:03 <pumpkin> it's returning a path in /scratchbox
Nov 27 07:59:11 <timelyx> ah yes
Nov 27 07:59:15 <pumpkin> but if I run file on the libs, it's for x86
Nov 27 07:59:15 <timelyx> right, um
Nov 27 07:59:21 <timelyx> right
Nov 27 07:59:27 <timelyx> do which curl-config
Nov 27 07:59:41 <timelyx> go to the non scratchbox side and move that out of the way
Nov 27 07:59:53 * timelyx frowns
Nov 27 07:59:58 <pumpkin>  /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/bin/curl-config
Nov 27 08:00:01 <timelyx> having a curl-config in path seems kinda stupid
Nov 27 08:00:01 <pumpkin> that's what it is now
Nov 27 08:00:08 <timelyx> move that out of the way :)
Nov 27 08:00:12 <pumpkin> ok
Nov 27 08:00:21 <timelyx> mv /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/bin/curl-config /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/bin/curl-config.stupid
Nov 27 08:00:33 <timelyx> or .broken or .intel whatever
Nov 27 08:00:53 <pumpkin> so now it's /usr/bin/curl-config
Nov 27 08:01:01 <timelyx> [pablo]_: sorry, if you don't think that polluting an armel env path with an intel script is stupid, ...
Nov 27 08:01:12 <pumpkin> he's pming you?
Nov 27 08:01:15 <timelyx> no
Nov 27 08:01:32 <pumpkin> omg
Nov 27 08:01:35 <pumpkin> it works :)
Nov 27 08:01:40 <pumpkin> is this chrooted?
Nov 27 08:01:41 <[pablo]_> huh?
Nov 27 08:01:42 <timelyx> file a bug against the sdk
Nov 27 08:01:48 <timelyx> that sounds broken
Nov 27 08:02:02 <pumpkin> I'm not even positive I'm on 3.2
Nov 27 08:02:12 <pumpkin> it's a pain to install
Nov 27 08:02:23 <pumpkin> I had a nice installation then dumbly reverted my vm to a snapshot
Nov 27 08:02:26 <pumpkin> and lost all my stuff
Nov 27 08:02:28 <timelyx> pumpkin: create a new test sdk install before filing :)
Nov 27 08:02:38 <pumpkin> timelyx: this is completely clean
Nov 27 08:02:39 <timelyx> but it sure sounds like a bug
Nov 27 08:02:43 <pumpkin> I've redone the whole thing several times
Nov 27 08:02:58 <timelyx> ok, file, be sure to include the url from which you got the installer and the steps you used to get the installer
Nov 27 08:03:12 <timelyx> include the output of which curl-config and the output of curl-config --libs
Nov 27 08:03:17 <pumpkin> okay
Nov 27 08:03:24 <timelyx> s/get the/run the/
Nov 27 08:03:25 <pumpkin> I'll do that when I don't have a big project to compile
Nov 27 08:03:27 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 08:03:32 <pumpkin> but that gets me past this hump, thanks
Nov 27 08:03:33 <timelyx> gah
Nov 27 08:03:34 <timelyx> file early
Nov 27 08:03:49 <pumpkin> I have a deadline tomorrow :-/
Nov 27 08:03:51 <timelyx> the longer you wait the more unfortunate souls get stuck w/ the same incromprehensible bugs
Nov 27 08:03:53 <pumpkin> and it's 3 am
Nov 27 08:03:54 <pumpkin> :P
Nov 27 08:03:58 <timelyx> ....
Nov 27 08:04:01 * timelyx curses deadlines
Nov 27 08:04:04 <pumpkin> yeah, same
Nov 27 08:04:15 <pumpkin> but I promise I'll file tomorrow after I'm done
Nov 27 08:04:18 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 08:04:28 <timelyx> you're on the record, this channel is logged :)
Nov 27 08:04:32 <pumpkin> yup
Nov 27 08:09:38 <timelyx> [pablo]_: http://www.mozilla.org/developer/#builds
Nov 27 08:10:51 <timelyx> actually, that only has part of it
Nov 27 08:11:05 <timelyx> http://web.archive.org/web/20000229124052/www.mozilla.org/binaries.html
Nov 27 08:11:09 <timelyx> has the full version
Nov 27 08:11:21 <timelyx> It is very important that you understand that these binaries are not complete programs. They might crash on startup. They might delete all your files and cause your computer to burst into flames.
Nov 27 08:11:41 <pumpkin> lol
Nov 27 08:12:27 <timelyx> fwiw, we actually did *ship* versions that would delete all your files :)
Nov 27 08:12:40 <timelyx> i can't remember if that notice was still live by the time that happens
Nov 27 08:12:43 <timelyx> s/s$/ed/
Nov 27 08:12:52 <timelyx> i suspect the notice was unfortunately replaced w/ the tamer one
Nov 27 08:13:11 <timelyx> Mozilla might crash on startup. It might delete all your files and cause your computer to burst into flames.
Nov 27 08:13:22 <timelyx> but thankfully, that notice is sufficient.
Nov 27 08:13:44 <gomiam> timelyx: at least it won't mistakenly start a nuclear war, right? :-D
Nov 27 08:13:44 <[pablo]_> timelyx: what's that link for?
Nov 27 08:13:59 <timelyx> gomiam: sadly, i don't think we have the proper disclaimer for that
Nov 27 08:14:25 <gomiam> ah, then it's a feature, not a bug,
Nov 27 08:14:50 <timelyx> http://www.netbeans.info/downloads/licence/ide-5.5.1-fcs-2007-05-24-sla.txt
Nov 27 08:14:57 <GeneralAntilles> timelyx, any words on the proper usage of Target Milestone?
Nov 27 08:15:03 <timelyx> . (j)
Nov 27 08:15:03 <timelyx> Software is not designed, licensed or intended for use in the design,
Nov 27 08:15:03 <timelyx> construction, operation or maintenance of any nuclear facility
Nov 27 08:15:40 <timelyx> gomiam: as you can see, sun properly covers the nuclear cases
Nov 27 08:16:00 <timelyx> and in java's case it merely says, you shouldn't let java start a nuclear war
Nov 27 08:16:03 <timelyx> it doesn't say that it won't
Nov 27 08:16:41 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: if the bug is resolved fixed, pick the smallest version in which it's fixed
Nov 27 08:17:00 <timelyx> if the bug is something you're working on and you can predict better than Next/Future, fill it in
Nov 27 08:17:05 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: is that sufficient ?
Nov 27 08:17:14 <GeneralAntilles> Yessir, thankee. :)
Nov 27 08:17:35 <timelyx> thanks for asking
Nov 27 08:17:43 <timelyx> and especially thanks for doing the bookkeeping
Nov 27 08:18:12 <timelyx> [pablo]_: i do have a sense of humor, it's just quite pained
Nov 27 08:18:30 <timelyx> it's not entirely users' faults
Nov 27 08:18:57 <timelyx> blame can be distributed among most sectors, and fairly evenly
Nov 27 08:19:09 <[pablo]_> heh
Nov 27 08:19:15 <timelyx> but usually devs will sympathize with me
Nov 27 08:19:25 <gomiam> timelyx: of course Sun would put that. The Sun is a nuclear engine, so people might be misled.
Nov 27 08:19:28 <timelyx> and the more you get to know me, the more you will sympathize
Nov 27 08:19:39 <timelyx> gomiam =)
Nov 27 08:19:40 <gomiam> s/engine/reaction/
Nov 27 08:19:40 <infobot> gomiam meant: timelyx: of course Sun would put that. The Sun is a nuclear reaction, so people might be misled.
Nov 27 08:19:52 * timelyx doesn't actually mind engine
Nov 27 08:20:08 <pumpkin> ID ftw
Nov 27 08:20:09 <pumpkin> ;)
Nov 27 08:20:25 <timelyx> id?
Nov 27 08:20:30 <pumpkin> "intelligent design"
Nov 27 08:20:41 <timelyx> not duke nukem?
Nov 27 08:21:12 <gomiam> intelligent design? That is when you think about all the corner cases before starting to code, right?
Nov 27 08:21:17 <pumpkin> :P
Nov 27 08:21:20 <pumpkin> I wish
Nov 27 08:21:37 <timelyx> intelligent design is where you consider all cases and decide not to implement
Nov 27 08:21:44 <timelyx> because you recognize all the disasters that would happen
Nov 27 08:21:48 <gomiam> XD
Nov 27 08:22:15 <gomiam> that's lazy design: "corner cases? We don't need no stinkin' corner cases, we have exceptions for that!"
Nov 27 08:22:40 <timelyx> btw, in case people are curious, i'm leaving that lesson learned for _Monkey
Nov 27 08:22:45 <timelyx> i hope no one truly objects
Nov 27 08:27:15 <GeneralAntilles> I object!
Nov 27 08:27:18 * GeneralAntilles throws a fit.
Nov 27 08:27:37 <gomiam> I subject!
Nov 27 08:27:38 <timelyx> } catch (e instanceof fit) { /* ignore it */ }
Nov 27 08:27:51 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 27 08:28:33 <gomiam> XD
Nov 27 08:28:51 <timelyx> gomiam: 2> /dev/null :)
Nov 27 08:29:06 <gomiam> XD
Nov 27 08:30:27 <GeneralAntilles> I wish bugzilla had an overview page.
Nov 27 08:30:40 <timelyx> hrm, who reported 2398?
Nov 27 08:30:43 <timelyx> they didn't fill in the URL field
Nov 27 08:30:54 <timelyx> which is kinda sad
Nov 27 08:31:06 <timelyx> btw: to all
Nov 27 08:31:12 <timelyx> REPRODUCIBILITY:
Nov 27 08:31:12 <timelyx> (always/sometimes/once)Always
Nov 27 08:31:21 <timelyx> you're supposed to remove the parenthetical :)
Nov 27 08:31:24 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 27 08:31:27 <timelyx> it's a suggestion...
Nov 27 08:31:38 <GeneralAntilles> Damn users!
Nov 27 08:31:53 <timelyx> what kind of overview?
Nov 27 08:32:04 <GeneralAntilles> All bugs
Nov 27 08:32:08 <GeneralAntilles> 50-100 per page
Nov 27 08:32:11 <timelyx> there are 2400
Nov 27 08:32:11 <GeneralAntilles> columns sortable
Nov 27 08:32:19 <timelyx> you can easily get most of them
Nov 27 08:33:31 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I created a search.
Nov 27 08:35:13 <timelyx> you also can click on one column to sort
Nov 27 08:35:22 <timelyx> and technically if you're feeling clever, there's a way to sort by more than one
Nov 27 08:37:02 <doc|home> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/lithiumionbatteryusage/ <- is that accurate?
Nov 27 08:38:09 <timelyx> most likely anyone who knows would have a lawyer who would object to commenting
Nov 27 08:38:10 <astro76> doc|home, yes absolutely
Nov 27 08:38:24 <astro76> I'm an engineer, f the lawyers :p
Nov 27 08:38:31 <doc|home> so it's actually best to keep it charged?
Nov 27 08:38:36 <doc|home> i.e. while using it
Nov 27 08:38:37 <astro76> doc|home, yes as much as possible
Nov 27 08:38:50 <timelyx> note that there's a funny tradeoff
Nov 27 08:38:53 <doc|home> nice! :) I'd been trying to limit charging
Nov 27 08:39:10 <timelyx> the user guide for 2008 probably says something about not keeping the charger constantly plugged in
Nov 27 08:39:22 <timelyx> because the environmentalists or maybe uk gov complain you're wasting power
Nov 27 08:39:26 <astro76> doc|home, basically try not to deeply discharge them, and not to get them hot
Nov 27 08:39:37 <doc|home> timelyx: any more than if I just used battery power?
Nov 27 08:39:43 * GeneralAntilles pimps his bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2285
Nov 27 08:39:50 <doc|home> hmmm, it charges pretty warm
Nov 27 08:40:17 <timelyx> doc|home: my understanding is that you're spending power while the charger is plugged into a socket, whether or not there's a device corded
Nov 27 08:40:20 <timelyx> and they don't like that
Nov 27 08:40:34 <astro76> I wonder what is worse environmentally, leakage current on chargers, or extra Lion in landfills
Nov 27 08:40:37 <timelyx> similarly, if the device is fully charged and the charger is plugged into the socket and device
Nov 27 08:40:44 <timelyx> you're still wasting power at the charger
Nov 27 08:40:46 <doc|home> ah, right
Nov 27 08:40:58 <timelyx> note: i'm not a lawyer, nor am i really an environmentalist
Nov 27 08:41:04 * doc|home nods
Nov 27 08:41:13 <timelyx> but i did get to sit in on the change review for the "please unplug" message that came w/ 2008
Nov 27 08:41:13 <GeneralAntilles> So, really, the best plan is to just kill yourself right now and stop destroying the planet. :)
Nov 27 08:41:23 <timelyx> we didn't add it just because we like more chances for typos
Nov 27 08:41:41 <doc|home> GeneralAntilles: want to add that?
Nov 27 08:41:44 <timelyx> note: i don't think we added any typos there either, but hey... all changes incur some risk
Nov 27 08:42:06 <doc|home> hmmm, user manual, must read that :)
Nov 27 08:42:20 <GeneralAntilles> I don't get where an OS gets off telling me how to use my electricity. :P
Nov 27 08:42:35 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: the os doesn't get it either
Nov 27 08:42:35 <doc|home> hey, there has to be some give and take :)
Nov 27 08:42:53 <timelyx> it's some government lawyer/legistlator who went off and told some company
Nov 27 08:42:59 <timelyx> who told some engineer, who added it
Nov 27 08:43:33 <timelyx> as for the trade off at the landfill... dunno. most likely this stuff hasn't been properly studied
Nov 27 08:43:42 <timelyx> i offer the effort to change DST
Nov 27 08:43:51 <timelyx> someone thought it looked good on paper
Nov 27 08:43:55 <doc|home> there are facilities for battery disposal
Nov 27 08:44:15 <GeneralAntilles> How many people actually use them?
Nov 27 08:44:22 <astro76> well really you want people to unplug chargers when it is *not* powering a device... and the device can't warn about that
Nov 27 08:44:28 <doc|home> 4132 per 100,000
Nov 27 08:44:32 <GeneralAntilles> I say we change the notice to "And remember to recycle your batteries!"
Nov 27 08:44:35 <timelyx> astro76: right
Nov 27 08:44:36 * doc|home nods authoritively
Nov 27 08:44:45 <timelyx> the info banner tries to be clear about where to unplug
Nov 27 08:44:55 <timelyx> and the quick start and user guide also try
Nov 27 08:45:01 <timelyx> not sure how good the English/translations are
Nov 27 08:45:03 <timelyx> but they exist
Nov 27 08:45:33 <doc|home> so, any reason why, given that, they didn't usb power the n8x0? :/
Nov 27 08:45:56 <doc|home> that
Nov 27 08:45:58 <doc|home> bah
Nov 27 08:46:08 <timelyx> hey, i misspelled once in my latest bug comment
Nov 27 08:46:13 <GeneralAntilles> Slow charging?
Nov 27 08:46:16 <doc|home> that's probably my one niggle, the battery life is shortish so you need to carry a charger
Nov 27 08:46:20 <GeneralAntilles> More complicated circuitry?
Nov 27 08:46:22 <timelyx> the vendor group making the tablets mostly reuses parts from other mobile phones
Nov 27 08:46:34 <doc|home> GeneralAntilles: I've got usb charging in my mobile
Nov 27 08:46:35 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: it's actually fairly trivial from what i've seen/heard
Nov 27 08:46:49 <doc|home> and the mobile is far thinner than the n800
Nov 27 08:47:11 <timelyx> my belief is that usb charging wasn't yet in the cards for the components they were offered when the design was frozen
Nov 27 08:47:21 <doc|home> fair enough
Nov 27 08:47:27 <timelyx> no idea if/when that might change
Nov 27 08:47:47 <timelyx> for the n810, the big change was adding proper usb otg
Nov 27 08:48:17 <timelyx> not sure how engineering effort can be split, but my guess is the people who could do usb otg would also be the people who could do usb pwr
Nov 27 08:48:32 <timelyx> so it's also possible that they ran out of engineering resources :)
Nov 27 08:48:33 <doc|home> otg?
Nov 27 08:48:41 <timelyx> (this is 100% speculation)
Nov 27 08:48:47 <timelyx> google
Nov 27 08:48:48 <_Monkey> well, google is my friend and you should make it your friend too
Nov 27 08:49:00 <timelyx> feel free to teach monkey when you're done :)
Nov 27 08:49:11 <timelyx> nothing wrong w/ it having a proper answer for that one :)
Nov 27 08:49:16 <doc|home> sure, if you'll tell me how :)
Nov 27 08:49:25 <doc|home> usb.org--
Nov 27 08:49:31 <timelyx> foo .i.s. bar
Nov 27 08:49:34 <timelyx> it'll learn foo
Nov 27 08:49:39 <doc|home> ok
Nov 27 08:51:53 <GeneralAntilles> Hmm . . . softpower off seems to have stopped working under the N800 OS2008 beta. :\
Nov 27 08:52:05 <timelyx> that's kinda surprising
Nov 27 08:52:13 <timelyx> do you get the power menu?
Nov 27 08:52:30 <timelyx> i.e. please explain steps/expected results
Nov 27 08:52:31 <gomiam> erm... what is the current 2008 for N800 version?
Nov 27 08:52:39 <GeneralAntilles> Let me test it a second.
Nov 27 08:52:39 <timelyx> 44-4 "beta"
Nov 27 08:52:42 <gomiam> Is it a production version? a beta?
Nov 27 08:52:49 <doc|home> otg is a supplement to the USB 2.0 specification which allows USB devices to be hosts as well as slaves, controlling power, data and master/slave negotiation
Nov 27 08:52:50 <timelyx> it's a beta
Nov 27 08:52:55 <doc|home> otg?
Nov 27 08:52:56 <_Monkey> otg is a supplement to the USB 2.0 specification which allows USB devices to be hosts as well as slaves, controlling power, data and master/slave negotiation
Nov 27 08:53:00 <timelyx> :)
Nov 27 08:53:03 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Nov 27 08:53:10 * doc|home pats the _monkey
Nov 27 08:53:12 <GeneralAntilles> OK, longpress turns off the screen
Nov 27 08:53:23 <GeneralAntilles> but the touchscreen is still active, and any taps will reactivate the screen
Nov 27 08:53:25 * timelyx punches the _Monkey
Nov 27 08:53:29 <doc|home> hmmm, mine switched off fine
Nov 27 08:53:33 <GeneralAntilles> a shortpress will NOT bring up the power menu at this point
Nov 27 08:53:42 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: what's running?
Nov 27 08:53:53 <GeneralAntilles> another longpress to bring it back out of the broken soft poweroff with allow the menu to function again
Nov 27 08:53:58 <GeneralAntilles> browser only
Nov 27 08:54:04 <Xtrophy> sweet to see many ppl intrested with it :P
Nov 27 08:54:25 <doc|home> we're the nerds :/
Nov 27 08:54:29 <GeneralAntilles> Rebooting
Nov 27 08:54:54 <Xtrophy> there is nothing wrong with being clueless :P
Nov 27 08:55:38 <GeneralAntilles> Same behavior at boot with no connection.
Nov 27 08:55:54 * GeneralAntilles rechecks /etc/mce/mce.ini
Nov 27 08:56:24 <timelyx> "no connection"?
Nov 27 08:56:36 <GeneralAntilles> No wifi connection.
Nov 27 08:56:44 <timelyx> browser not yet running?
Nov 27 08:56:53 <GeneralAntilles> Browser not yet running.
Nov 27 08:57:02 <timelyx> close your home applets and reboot ;-)
Nov 27 08:57:18 <Xtrophy> could i bother u all with questions that been asked thousand times before
Nov 27 08:57:25 <GeneralAntilles> rgr
Nov 27 08:57:26 <timelyx> Xtrophy: google first?
Nov 27 08:57:33 <timelyx> Xtrophy: note that this channel is logged
Nov 27 08:57:43 <timelyx> so if a question was asked here, you could read the log for the answer
Nov 27 08:58:00 <timelyx> could? yes. should? not really :)
Nov 27 08:58:02 <Xtrophy> ow sweet u mean 24 hour logs
Nov 27 08:58:10 <timelyx> 24-7
Nov 27 08:58:19 <timelyx> minus time off for bad bot behavior :)
Nov 27 08:58:22 <timelyx> and net splits
Nov 27 08:58:52 <GeneralAntilles> No change with applets off.
Nov 27 08:59:00 <Xtrophy> anyway its still not same as change that u can suprise me with ur answers :P
Nov 27 08:59:17 <Xtrophy> is there a maemo wiki gives detailed information
Nov 27 08:59:38 <timelyx> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/
Nov 27 08:59:43 <timelyx> not sure what it gives
Nov 27 08:59:46 <timelyx> probably bad info :)
Nov 27 09:00:39 <Xtrophy> is maemo a regular linux kernel with a new x11 desktop for tablet pcs
Nov 27 09:00:53 <timelyx> it's an omap kernel
Nov 27 09:00:58 <timelyx> and defining 'new' is hard
Nov 27 09:01:13 <timelyx> but otherwise, "kinda' :)
Nov 27 09:01:38 <timelyx> actually, defining "regular" is pointless
Nov 27 09:01:56 * timelyx pokes Jaffa
Nov 27 09:01:59 <timelyx> hurry up
Nov 27 09:02:19 <Xtrophy> so could i use every linuxx program on it
Nov 27 09:02:36 <Xtrophy> at least dosent wants special runtimes
Nov 27 09:02:43 <timelyx> um. no no
Nov 27 09:02:43 <Xtrophy> idk kde based or gtk
Nov 27 09:02:50 <timelyx> it's gtk based
Nov 27 09:03:00 <timelyx> if you want your app to look right, it needs to be rewritten to use hildon
Nov 27 09:03:01 <Xtrophy> so i can use gtk based applications?
Nov 27 09:03:11 <timelyx> you could xdisplay qt apps too
Nov 27 09:03:12 <Xtrophy> :(
Nov 27 09:03:18 <timelyx> but you probably wouldn't get a keyboard :)
Nov 27 09:03:31 <Xtrophy> like if i want a mame emu i need to find rewriten version
Nov 27 09:03:42 <timelyx> no
Nov 27 09:03:53 <timelyx> emulators generally don't care about platform look and feel
Nov 27 09:04:00 <timelyx> l&f only matters for normal things
Nov 27 09:04:28 <GeneralAntilles> I suppose it's time to open a bug on this.
Nov 27 09:04:30 <Xtrophy> is there a console application in mameo like bash
Nov 27 09:04:35 <GeneralAntilles> Any more ideas, timelyx? ;)
Nov 27 09:04:42 <timelyx> IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-07-28
Nov 27 09:04:42 <timelyx> N800: port MAME, 20:27. frob, N800: you need to eat pills while walking back and forth? 20:27. NeoStrider, wel...actually..there is already mame for maemo ...
Nov 27 09:04:42 <timelyx> mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2007-07-28.log.html
Nov 27 09:04:44 <Xtrophy> and regular directories
Nov 27 09:05:04 <GeneralAntilles> ash, Xtrophy.
Nov 27 09:05:12 <timelyx> busybox
Nov 27 09:05:13 <_Monkey> busybox is weak by default
Nov 27 09:05:16 <timelyx> it's a normal whatever, 2008 includes xterminal
Nov 27 09:05:30 <timelyx> previous versions required you find one of two competing xterminals
Nov 27 09:05:37 <Xtrophy> is answering nonsence pointless questions gives u braindamage
Nov 27 09:05:40 <timelyx> all versions allow you to install one of two competing ssh(d)s
Nov 27 09:05:57 <timelyx> it gives me headaches
Nov 27 09:06:03 <timelyx> but not as much as other things i do
Nov 27 09:06:28 <timelyx> think of maemo as a hacked version of debian
Nov 27 09:06:40 <timelyx> it has a hacked linux omap kernel w/ a hacked version of gnome
Nov 27 09:06:47 <timelyx> some versions include more hacks than others
Nov 27 09:06:53 <timelyx> some versions include worse hacks than others
Nov 27 09:07:03 <timelyx> not all hacks are created equal, some hacks are more equal than others
Nov 27 09:07:21 <timelyx> there is a /home/user directory that has some other directories, like a MyDocs
Nov 27 09:07:25 <Xtrophy> thanks its dosent looks an hopeless rom operation system to me now
Nov 27 09:07:46 <timelyx> but for most apps you want, someone may have already ported
Nov 27 09:07:51 <timelyx> and clearly google would have saved me effort
Nov 27 09:08:02 <timelyx> why do people refuse to use google?
Nov 27 09:08:09 <Xtrophy> its evil
Nov 27 09:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> Excellent question.
Nov 27 09:08:13 <GeneralAntilles> Perhaps you should file a bug?
Nov 27 09:08:28 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: sadly, we already include a google search applet on our device
Nov 27 09:08:32 <timelyx> people refuse to use that too
Nov 27 09:08:42 <timelyx> heck, in 2008, the home page is a google gateway
Nov 27 09:08:53 <doc|home> timelyx: because they censor results.
Nov 27 09:09:02 <doc|home> by the way, can you change that?
Nov 27 09:09:18 <timelyx> doc: so my uncensored (in|re)sults are better? :)
Nov 27 09:09:32 <GeneralAntilles> The only way to make them learn is to have a team of Googleteers that repeatedly beat people who don't google first about the head and shoulders with sockfuls of super rubber balls.
Nov 27 09:09:35 <timelyx> change the source ip :)
Nov 27 09:09:35 <_Monkey> timelyx: that doesn't look right
Nov 27 09:09:41 <doc|home> timelyx: I get perfectly good results from a search engine that isn't google and isn't censoring results
Nov 27 09:09:43 * timelyx waves googbye
Nov 27 09:10:04 <doc|home> did you crash monkey? :)
Nov 27 09:10:08 <timelyx> yes
Nov 27 09:10:14 <doc|home> heh
Nov 27 09:10:35 <timelyx> i think it's for a currency converter
Nov 27 09:10:35 <GeneralAntilles> doc|home, this isn't really a political discussion, it's more of a "Why do people ask stupid questions to which the answers are already readily available?"-discussion. :)
Nov 27 09:10:58 <doc|home> ah, ok :)
Nov 27 09:12:23 <czr> mornink
Nov 27 09:12:32 <GeneralAntilles> Halo, czr.
Nov 27 09:12:32 <Xtrophy> could u think ppl never asks questions that answers given somewhere somehow before
Nov 27 09:12:43 <Xtrophy> omg how many new question u can find
Nov 27 09:13:02 <GeneralAntilles> There are no new questions. :)
Nov 27 09:13:26 <timelyx> there are no new answers either :)
Nov 27 09:13:58 <Xtrophy> dont say that
Nov 27 09:14:15 <Xtrophy> with every new answer ur whine ability increasing slightly
Nov 27 09:14:30 <timelyx> trade off sucks
Nov 27 09:14:45 <GeneralAntilles> We need a well organized wiki to point new users to.
Nov 27 09:14:57 <timelyx> google doesn't count? :)
Nov 27 09:15:06 <GeneralAntilles> Seemingly no.
Nov 27 09:15:17 <czr> <miyagi>trade on, trade off</miyagi>
Nov 27 09:15:27 * timelyx chuckles
Nov 27 09:15:48 <GeneralAntilles> The internet tablet school is a nice idea, but it doesn't cover enough subjects, is only maintained by a single person and is poorly organized.
Nov 27 09:15:50 * czr wakes up to smell the bonsai trees
Nov 27 09:15:55 <GeneralAntilles> maemo wiki is just gross
Nov 27 09:16:06 <GeneralAntilles> and the ITT wiki seems to be full of garbage/very broken.
Nov 27 09:16:22 <czr> timelyx, it is done. bad grammar, evil content, but it IS done :-)
Nov 27 09:16:49 <czr> although I'm still waiting for feedback and will be fixing things for the rest of the week, but in theory, it is done.
Nov 27 09:16:52 * czr jumps around in joy
Nov 27 09:17:00 <timelyx> heh
Nov 27 09:17:02 <timelyx> sounds like us
Nov 27 09:17:10 <czr> yup :-)
Nov 27 09:17:11 <timelyx> poke me tonight
Nov 27 09:17:32 <czr> I might. need to go through all the bug reports now.
Nov 27 09:18:37 <czr> oo. my "dangerous symlink" has now "high priority"
Nov 27 09:19:07 <GeneralAntilles> Test and vote. https://bugs.maemo.org/post_bug.cgi
Nov 27 09:19:09 <GeneralAntilles> Ugh
Nov 27 09:19:14 * GeneralAntilles needs sleep.
Nov 27 09:19:18 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2400
Nov 27 09:20:01 <czr> softpower off?
Nov 27 09:20:31 <jumpula> http://www.little-gamers.com/index.php?comicID=204
Nov 27 09:20:48 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: hey, you got bug 2400 :)
Nov 27 09:20:49 <_Monkey> Bug 2400 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2400
Nov 27 09:21:12 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, kinda messed up that space, didn't I?
Nov 27 09:21:22 <timelyx> wait, what is soft  power off?
Nov 27 09:21:28 <timelyx> is that some unsupported feature?
Nov 27 09:21:31 <czr> that's what my question was too
Nov 27 09:21:33 <czr> looks like it
Nov 27 09:21:57 <GeneralAntilles> How can you use these devices and not know what soft poweroff is?
Nov 27 09:22:05 * timelyx looks around
Nov 27 09:22:13 <czr> use? who told you we use them?
Nov 27 09:22:14 <timelyx> we leave our devices plugged in? :)
Nov 27 09:22:15 * doc|home doesn't either :|
Nov 27 09:22:37 <GeneralAntilles> You use that entirely too cumbersome keylocking procedure?
Nov 27 09:22:57 <doc|home> I was complaining about that today, anything to do with the power key is annoying
Nov 27 09:23:09 <doc|home> explain oh wise one :)
Nov 27 09:23:24 <GeneralAntilles>  /etc/mce/mce.ini
Nov 27 09:23:33 <GeneralAntilles> It's like magic (well, it WAS in OS2007 <_<)
Nov 27 09:23:36 <czr> editing mce.ini is unsupported afaik
Nov 27 09:23:41 <GeneralAntilles> Well, good.
Nov 27 09:23:44 <GeneralAntilles> I'd still like it fixed. :)
Nov 27 09:23:48 <doc|home> hehe
Nov 27 09:24:09 <czr> GeneralAntilles, if you'd post a link to some page explaining what it was, people might vote for it :-)
Nov 27 09:24:12 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: it'd be good if you included /etc/osso_software_version
Nov 27 09:24:18 <timelyx> or the url from which you retrieved the image
Nov 27 09:24:19 <czr> and a fix! :-)
Nov 27 09:24:26 <czr> and cookies.
Nov 27 09:24:27 <_Monkey> cookies are delicious delicacies
Nov 27 09:24:30 <doc|home> hahaha
Nov 27 09:24:37 <doc|home> brownies > cookies
Nov 27 09:24:39 <timelyx> that's intentional
Nov 27 09:24:44 <timelyx> (google)
Nov 27 09:24:45 <doc|home> of course
Nov 27 09:25:35 <czr> ot/cookies: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/939f/
Nov 27 09:25:45 <GeneralAntilles> Stick this: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php?f=RX-34_2008SE_1.2007.44-4_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin in the URL field, timelyx?
Nov 27 09:26:15 <doc|home> heh
Nov 27 09:26:54 <timelyx> burst into flames is It is very important that you understand that these binaries are not complete programs. They might crash on startup. They might delete all your files and cause your computer to burst into flames. http://web.archive.org/web/20000229124052/www.mozilla.org/binaries.html
Nov 27 09:27:00 <timelyx> burst into flames?
Nov 27 09:27:01 <_Monkey> burst into flames is It is very important that you understand that these binaries are not complete programs. They might crash on startup. They might delete all my files and cause my computer to burst into flames. http://web.archive.org/web/20000229124052/www.mozilla.org/binaries.html
Nov 27 09:27:09 <Xtrophy> anybody knows an i386 dos emulation with sb default
Nov 27 09:27:12 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: that'd be fine
Nov 27 09:27:18 * czr turns _Monkey into a harmless trout
Nov 27 09:27:20 <Xtrophy> so i can play estatica again
Nov 27 09:27:46 <czr> seriously though, does anyone know who controls _monkey?
Nov 27 09:27:56 <timelyx> Xtrophy: id you consider google: maemo dosbox?
Nov 27 09:28:16 * czr is thinking packing some trouts in his travelling bag and taking a road trip to wherever _monkey originates from
Nov 27 09:28:28 <czr> travel bag even
Nov 27 09:28:33 <Xtrophy> omg omg /cheer
Nov 27 09:28:35 <timelyx> czr: the log repeatedly lists who owns the bot
Nov 27 09:28:42 <timelyx> but i don't try to remember :)
Nov 27 09:29:09 <czr> timelyx, hmm. should prolly take a look at it then. mine is kind of stupid. since I've disabled join/parts, they're not stored into the log either. bleh.
Nov 27 09:30:01 <GeneralAntilles> soft poweroff replaces my much missed 770 cover for my N800.
Nov 27 09:30:16 <timelyx> yeah, i remember people mentioning it from back then
Nov 27 09:30:24 <jumpula> czr: can't they be enabled separately for logs?
Nov 27 09:30:32 <jumpula> i think in irssi one can
Nov 27 09:30:36 <jumpula> not sure, though
Nov 27 09:30:46 <czr> jumpula, I guess so, but I haven't bothered before this really
Nov 27 09:30:49 <czr> and I don't use irssi.
Nov 27 09:30:54 <jumpula> at least rawlog displays everything
Nov 27 09:31:08 <jumpula> ok :)
Nov 27 09:31:30 <czr> hmm. no separate option to log join/parts. /me kicks his legacy version of xchat
Nov 27 09:32:06 <Xtrophy> is playing old hentai dos games under illegal emulations ( and sure games are copy too ) is a sin
Nov 27 09:32:18 <Xtrophy> is there a chance for me to burn in hell?
Nov 27 09:32:24 <czr> Xtrophy, yes
Nov 27 09:32:38 <Xtrophy> its os of satan :(
Nov 27 09:32:43 * czr believes in the "garbage in, garbage out" process
Nov 27 09:32:48 * jumpula sees a chance of Xtrophy burning his games to a cd
Nov 27 09:32:50 <Xtrophy> just seduces me i cant resist
Nov 27 09:33:05 <timelyx> jumpula: =)
Nov 27 09:33:33 * timelyx sighs
Nov 27 09:33:37 <timelyx> stupid users
Nov 27 09:33:52 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody needs to resolve this as fixed. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=975
Nov 27 09:39:43 <timelyx> GeneralAntilles: do you not have editbugs?
Nov 27 09:39:52 <GeneralAntilles> Nope.
Nov 27 09:40:00 <timelyx> bugmail address?
Nov 27 09:40:23 <GeneralAntilles> rabelg5 at gmail dot com
Nov 27 09:40:56 <timelyx> go forth and resolve
Nov 27 09:41:02 <timelyx> (set tm of course!)
Nov 27 09:41:31 <GeneralAntilles> Danke, sir. :)
Nov 27 09:41:44 <timelyx> biette shen?
Nov 27 09:43:58 <czr> bleh. /me gets slightly irritated
Nov 27 09:44:08 <timelyx> czr: only slightly?
Nov 27 09:44:09 <czr> bug 2383
Nov 27 09:44:10 <_Monkey> Bug 2383 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2383
Nov 27 09:44:12 * timelyx just sent a nasty gram
Nov 27 09:44:13 <czr> only slightly :-)
Nov 27 09:44:35 <czr> comment #7 = caused irritation.
Nov 27 09:45:22 <timelyx> ETOOMANYCOMMENTS
Nov 27 09:46:21 <czr> considering the triviality of the bug, yes, I agree :-)
Nov 27 09:46:24 <timelyx> i don't think i have a cross reference of a recent ubuntu
Nov 27 09:46:35 <czr> what kind of cross ref?
Nov 27 09:46:37 <timelyx> but i'm fairly certain that modern debian's don't use apt.conf at all
Nov 27 09:46:41 <timelyx> either
Nov 27 09:46:45 <timelyx> (source, or installed)
Nov 27 09:46:49 <czr> ah, true
Nov 27 09:46:55 <czr> but I can check this quickly enough
Nov 27 09:47:01 <timelyx> i.e., i can't give you a good ref for it
Nov 27 09:47:03 * timelyx nods :)
Nov 27 09:47:07 <czr> I don't need a ref!
Nov 27 09:47:21 <czr> damn it. modular configuration has been with us ever since redhat ditched inetd for xinetd.
Nov 27 09:47:24 * czr growls
Nov 27 09:47:32 <czr> and that happened _ages_ ago.
Nov 27 09:47:36 <timelyx> i don't have growl installed here
Nov 27 09:47:49 * czr installs growl on timelyxes equipment
Nov 27 09:48:06 <czr> it has broadcast control. whenever I growl, they will now growl too.
Nov 27 09:48:09 <czr> surround growl.
Nov 27 09:48:22 <GeneralAntilles> <3 Growl
Nov 27 09:48:23 <timelyx> have you seen/heard growl?
Nov 27 09:48:27 <Xtrophy> why the damn doom impossible to complete alive
Nov 27 09:48:31 <czr> timeless, no apt.conf
Nov 27 09:48:32 <Xtrophy> wtf why im need to die after all
Nov 27 09:48:40 <czr> timeless, in feisty at least. just /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/
Nov 27 09:48:51 <timelyx> http://growl.info/ for everyone too lazy to use google: growl
Nov 27 09:49:13 <timelyx> czr: EWAYTOOMANYCOMMENTS
Nov 27 09:49:19 <timelyx> but comment :)
Nov 27 09:49:26 <czr> comment where?
Nov 27 09:49:38 <timelyx> in the bug of course :)
Nov 27 09:49:45 <czr> you think I should moan some more?
Nov 27 09:50:03 <czr> by the bug severety / amount of bitching ratio is already fairly bad for that one.
Nov 27 09:50:03 <timelyx> yes?
Nov 27 09:50:06 <Xtrophy> i will change to my nickname to noobsaibot
Nov 27 09:50:17 <timelyx> i don't think they get that key point
Nov 27 09:50:26 <czr> timelyx, ah. ok
Nov 27 09:50:28 <timelyx> that normal debians don't have anyone touching that file
Nov 27 09:50:36 <timelyx> btw, my karma jumped a bit
Nov 27 09:50:40 <timelyx> it used to be around 8 iirc
Nov 27 09:50:44 <czr> ooh. /me runs to check his
Nov 27 09:51:23 <czr> err. where's the profile page?
Nov 27 09:51:54 <timelyx> https://maemo.org/profile/
Nov 27 09:51:57 <timelyx> is the easiest one
Nov 27 09:52:08 <timelyx> https://maemo.org/profile/view/czr.html
Nov 27 09:52:10 <timelyx> is yours
Nov 27 09:52:23 <czr> thanks
Nov 27 09:52:44 <czr> I get the bugzilla ones finally.
Nov 27 09:56:05 <timelyx> how do i get a karma list?
Nov 27 09:56:24 <timelyx> i know i've seen one somewhere
Nov 27 09:56:30 <timelyx> http://maemo.org/profile/list
Nov 27 09:56:43 <timelyx> much better, i'm on the first page
Nov 27 09:56:48 <timelyx> ooh, and i can file another bug
Nov 27 09:56:58 <timelyx> actually, i think i already filed that bug
Nov 27 09:57:01 <timelyx> but about some other page :)
Nov 27 09:58:30 <czr> whee. I'm (just) on the first page :-)
Nov 27 09:58:48 <czr> I trail you by 37 points timeless!
Nov 27 09:59:03 <czr> or should I say, Mr '-' :-)
Nov 27 09:59:43 <czr> timelyx, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2383#c9
Nov 27 09:59:45 <czr> better?
Nov 27 10:00:30 <timelyx> we'll see?
Nov 27 10:00:34 <czr> except the typos and crap, but I can't really be bothered about those.
Nov 27 10:00:38 <timelyx> i thought something simpler would work
Nov 27 10:00:59 <timelyx> "ubuntu X has an /etc/apt/sources.list.d/whatever_its_name.list"
Nov 27 10:01:02 <czr> no. EMASSIVEOVERLOADOFCOMMENTS.
Nov 27 10:01:03 <timelyx> or only has
Nov 27 10:01:20 <czr> the irony is that the directory does exist in ubuntu, but is not actively used in feisty at least
Nov 27 10:01:39 <timelyx> oh, it isn't actively used?
Nov 27 10:01:40 <timelyx> bah
Nov 27 10:01:44 <timelyx> stupid stupid :)
Nov 27 10:01:47 <czr> it's an empty directory. yeah.
Nov 27 10:01:49 <timelyx> anyway, i've used it for a year
Nov 27 10:01:52 <timelyx> at least
Nov 27 10:02:01 <czr> not sure whether the graphical tools use it.
Nov 27 10:02:07 <timelyx> i remember using it when i first (second?) setup ubuntu here @n
Nov 27 10:02:12 * czr nods
Nov 27 10:02:19 <czr> it was news to me. I blame sp3000
Nov 27 10:02:36 <timelyx> iiirc when i used it, the documentation for it was scant :)
Nov 27 10:02:40 <czr> but I really like the modular config thingies
Nov 27 10:02:44 <timelyx> sounds like they're detonating somewhere nearby
Nov 27 10:02:48 <czr> the way things should've been always
Nov 27 10:02:54 <czr> especially with crappy package management systems
Nov 27 10:02:57 <timelyx> given the stupid way application manager works
Nov 27 10:03:06 <timelyx> btw, is there a bug filed for that? :)
Nov 27 10:03:06 <czr> heh
Nov 27 10:03:13 <timelyx> you can get karma for reporting it :)
Nov 27 10:03:38 <czr> heh. I'd better do a proper bug report instead
Nov 27 10:04:09 <czr> at least I have one to do still.
Nov 27 10:04:15 <timelyx> wow, qgim has way too much karma for blogging
Nov 27 10:04:20 <czr> but been lazy/not sure how to put it into words
Nov 27 10:05:06 <czr> timelyx, should we reopen the karma bug (now that it's closed) to moan about weighting between the categories? you think that'd fly well? ;-)
Nov 27 10:05:18 <timelyx> heh
Nov 27 10:05:20 <czr> "we the undersigned demand a larger cut of the karma-pie"
Nov 27 10:05:33 <timelyx> you could file a bug asking for irc karma
Nov 27 10:05:34 <czr> "P.S., Bloggers are weenies!"
Nov 27 10:05:52 <czr> heh
Nov 27 10:06:02 <czr> _monkey would take first position probably
Nov 27 10:06:03 <_Monkey> czr: i'm not following you...
Nov 27 10:06:14 <timelyx> not necessarily
Nov 27 10:06:14 <czr> I'd rather have qim at the pole
Nov 27 10:06:30 <czr> neh. irc is transient.
Nov 27 10:06:34 <czr> prefer it this way
Nov 27 10:07:02 <RussB> Hello all...
Nov 27 10:07:24 <timelyx> http://gavinsharp.com/irc/developers.html
Nov 27 10:07:26 <timelyx> for comparison
Nov 27 10:07:33 <timelyx> note slot 7 is the bot
Nov 27 10:07:42 <RussB> I just update my N800 to OS2008 Beta. Is it just me, or does the browser crash when visiting maemo.org/downloads for everyone?
Nov 27 10:07:54 <czr> timelyx, scary :-)
Nov 27 10:07:54 <timelyx> RussB: someone filed a bug for that
Nov 27 10:08:06 <timelyx> RussB: did you restore from backup?
Nov 27 10:08:10 <timelyx> (are you someone?)
Nov 27 10:08:11 <RussB> yeah
Nov 27 10:08:25 <RussB> I did restore from backup... is it some sort of cache thing?
Nov 27 10:08:42 <timelyx> dunno, please read the bug and follow the requested steps
Nov 27 10:08:51 <timelyx> (finding the bug is left as an exercise)
Nov 27 10:09:02 <RussB> :-)
Nov 27 10:09:29 <timelyx> czr: note: i'm not #1 in all those channels :)
Nov 27 10:09:46 <timelyx> Big numbers
Nov 27 10:09:47 <timelyx> Is firebot stupid or just asking too many questions? 39.7% lines contained a question!
Nov 27 10:09:55 <timelyx> The loudest one was foxbot, who yelled 19.5% of the time!
Nov 27 10:09:58 <czr> timelyx, the scary part was related to the all too even distribution between different times for you. very 24/7 of you :-)
Nov 27 10:10:10 <timelyx> yeah, i like that
Nov 27 10:10:13 <timelyx> nokia helped a lot
Nov 27 10:10:20 <timelyx> but even before nokia i had fairly good distribution
Nov 27 10:10:23 <Xtrophy> when i push to ctrl+f my computer threathen me for scary things
Nov 27 10:10:55 <timelyx> i think db48x might actually have a better distribution
Nov 27 10:10:58 <timelyx> he's on here too
Nov 27 10:11:35 <RussB> Ahh, here it is: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2398
Nov 27 10:11:38 <RussB> Okay, thanks
Nov 27 10:11:57 <timelyx> :), please help, steps should be fairly self explanatory
Nov 27 10:12:15 <timelyx> preferably do the analysis/reduction before attaching
Nov 27 10:12:57 <timelyx> czr: i think what i like better is that my distribution is better than the bot's :)
Nov 27 10:16:16 <czr> timelyx, clearly you are more botish than it is :-)
Nov 27 10:16:30 <timelyx> there are discussions about that
Nov 27 10:16:36 <timelyx> (ask sp3000 or db48x)
Nov 27 10:17:04 <czr> I don't I want/need to know :-)
Nov 27 10:17:08 <czr> I'll file a new bug instead
Nov 27 10:17:13 <timelyx> good choice
Nov 27 10:17:35 <czr> +think
Nov 27 10:17:50 <timelyx> just do it :)
Nov 27 10:18:12 <czr> you know. I feel kind of weird. this is the first time that I don't have anything to do (maemo-related) for a long time.
Nov 27 10:18:19 * czr is floating in emptyness
Nov 27 10:22:09 <timelyx> hey. don't forget to verify reso fixe bugs you reported
Nov 27 10:22:47 <timelyx> e.g., 2338
Nov 27 10:26:47 <unique311> blutooth headset works
Nov 27 10:26:52 <czr> "This file does not exist". Don't you think that error output from mxr is slightly misleading? :-)
Nov 27 10:26:58 <unique311> nice
Nov 27 10:27:04 <czr> It's like the "this page has intentionally been left blank" :-)
Nov 27 10:27:40 <czr> timelyx, good point. I didn't know that I'm supposed to verify them. Just adding a comment or changing the state from FIXED -> FERIVIED?
Nov 27 10:27:45 <czr> ferified even
Nov 27 10:28:14 <unique311> very nice add on the new os2008
Nov 27 10:28:35 <unique311> bluetooth headset works with skype
Nov 27 10:28:48 <timelyx> czr: well, verifying is nice
Nov 27 10:28:55 <timelyx> if you have a comment, include one
Nov 27 10:28:58 <timelyx> if you don't need one, don't
Nov 27 10:29:45 <czr> right. it wasn't clear to me what the VERIFIED really meant. either "Yes, this bug exists" or "Yes, this fix works".
Nov 27 10:30:12 <timelyx> verified is for verifying resolved (whichever)
Nov 27 10:30:18 <timelyx> you confirm bugs exist
Nov 27 10:30:40 <timelyx> 2067 could use /someone/ to verify
Nov 27 10:30:55 <timelyx> in that case it'd be best if the someone actually included steps that were tested
Nov 27 10:31:02 <timelyx> (rubber stamp not appreciated there)
Nov 27 10:33:31 <Xtrophy> timelyx
Nov 27 10:33:32 <_Monkey> somebody said timelyx was timelyx's mac, it has scrollback
Nov 27 10:33:40 <timelyx> yes?
Nov 27 10:33:45 <Xtrophy> i want a windows 95 with directx 10 complitable
Nov 27 10:34:04 <timelyx> why ask me?
Nov 27 10:34:10 * timelyx looks at mac
Nov 27 10:34:13 <timelyx> my mac is pretty
Nov 27 10:34:30 <Xtrophy> macs arent pretty
Nov 27 10:34:36 <Xtrophy> they r like man
Nov 27 10:34:43 <Xtrophy> troubless
Nov 27 10:34:56 <Xtrophy> unlike pcs always gives u headache like girls
Nov 27 10:35:10 <Xtrophy> thats why ppl lvoes their pc
Nov 27 10:35:34 <Xtrophy> sure i cant comment about ur sexual decitions
Nov 27 10:35:44 <Xtrophy> mac is fine i guess
Nov 27 10:37:06 <Xtrophy> anyway im so much sad that i cant run windows games something else then an amulator in linuxx neither windows dosent helps me. Even yea i have tons of memory and clock speed
Nov 27 10:37:36 <czr> bleh. konttori isn't around
Nov 27 10:37:36 <Xtrophy> but i still want windws 95 back i dont know how they able to to put in my memory 500 mb data with what
Nov 27 10:37:50 <Xtrophy> have vista :(
Nov 27 10:38:02 <Xtrophy> hate bill gates
Nov 27 10:38:04 <timelyx> you realize this is #maemo, no?
Nov 27 10:38:07 <timelyx> we don't really care
Nov 27 10:38:12 <timelyx> or rather, we really really don't care
Nov 27 10:38:18 <Xtrophy> see u r evil too
Nov 27 10:38:32 <Xtrophy> :( is anybody up there is anybody really cares
Nov 27 10:38:50 <Xtrophy> ever listen ke? it will fit to u
Nov 27 10:38:55 <czr> elb, I documented the libdbus abort thingy now: bug 2401
Nov 27 10:38:56 <_Monkey> Bug 2401 might be found at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2401
Nov 27 10:39:14 <czr> Xtrophy, does your ISP charge you by the number of characters you type?
Nov 27 10:39:20 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Nov 27 10:39:25 <GeneralAntilles> I was just going to say.
Nov 27 10:39:29 <GeneralAntilles> Learn to spell . . .
Nov 27 10:39:41 <czr> I tried to remain silent about it for a long time, but "growl".
Nov 27 10:40:27 <Xtrophy> i have many things to learn ^_^
Nov 27 10:40:29 <czr> timelyx, hmm. how can I see if a bug has been verified from a bug search list?
Nov 27 10:40:39 <czr> timelyx, or it will change "Resolution"?
Nov 27 10:41:42 <czr> ah. it's the "status" that gets updated.
Nov 27 10:42:23 <unique311> ok, this sucks, when i paired the bluetooth headset the first time.
Nov 27 10:42:27 <unique311> it worked.
Nov 27 10:42:36 <unique311> now it doesn't want to work....
Nov 27 10:42:48 <unique311> its connects but no sound.
Nov 27 10:42:57 <unique311> was this a fluke
Nov 27 10:43:12 <timelyx> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1864
Nov 27 10:43:16 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/libx11-1.1.1/debian/patches/015_russian_locale_alias.diff
Nov 27 10:43:22 <timelyx> is that patch related to that bug?
Nov 27 10:44:24 <czr> yes and no
Nov 27 10:44:29 <czr> I don't think that fixes the bug
Nov 27 10:44:38 <czr> related somehow maybe yes
Nov 27 10:44:58 <czr> it just changes the bug to another one I think
Nov 27 10:45:09 * timelyx rotfl
Nov 27 10:45:31 <czr> but I'm not sure
Nov 27 10:45:34 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/libx11-1.1.1/debian/changelog
Nov 27 10:45:39 <czr> at least to me it doesn't look like a fix
Nov 27 10:45:52 <timelyx> interesting
Nov 27 10:46:05 <czr> hmm. but they use KOI8-R
Nov 27 10:46:09 <czr> which is not UTF-8 at all
Nov 27 10:46:11 <timelyx> looks like they've tried a number of times to get it right
Nov 27 10:46:43 <timelyx> lines: 3, 66, 104, 174
Nov 27 10:46:46 <czr> KOI8-R is the russian (original) version of KOI8, which is a pure 8-bit encoding. similar but different from 8859
Nov 27 10:47:10 <czr> KOI8s are incompatible with other encodings, including UTF-8
Nov 27 10:47:40 <czr> also 64
Nov 27 10:47:49 <timelyx> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/libx11-1.1.1/debian/patches/002_arm_abi_brain_damage.diff#7
Nov 27 10:48:03 <timelyx> that's a great url :)
Nov 27 10:48:28 <czr> the one that's referred in that one?
Nov 27 10:48:32 <czr> ah. this one. yeah
Nov 27 10:48:40 <czr> seems pretty broken too. evil :-)
Nov 27 10:49:36 <czr> timelyx, the patch you referred to fixes 104
Nov 27 10:49:59 <czr> but again, I'm not sure it is related to the maemo bug
Nov 27 10:50:35 <czr> hmm. actually it does
Nov 27 10:50:48 <czr> I could test if I'd have a BT keyboard
Nov 27 10:51:12 <unique311> i had to remove the device from the bluetooth settings, turn of the n800, remove the battery, turn on the device, re-add the bluetooth headset.
Nov 27 10:51:15 <unique311> to get it working.
Nov 27 10:51:26 <unique311> but it works with kagu.
Nov 27 10:51:28 <unique311> yeah
Nov 27 10:51:29 <czr> unique311, see if you can repeat it
Nov 27 10:51:35 <unique311> k
Nov 27 10:51:39 <czr> the problem. if you can, file a bug with details
Nov 27 10:51:40 <timelyx> czr: does an n800 w/ bthid count?
Nov 27 10:51:53 <czr> timelyx, I don't know. never used BT much
Nov 27 10:52:03 <GeneralAntilles> Remove the battery? Was that really necessary?
Nov 27 10:52:10 <unique311> i think its cause i turned off the bluetooth headset a certain way i wasn't suppose to.
Nov 27 10:52:37 <unique311> not sure..but going to test it out again GeneralAntilles
Nov 27 10:53:47 <unique311> figured it out..
Nov 27 10:54:16 <unique311> i didn't disconnect the bluetooth headset from the n800.
Nov 27 10:55:41 <timelyx> czr: that bug rocks
Nov 27 10:55:50 <timelyx> I wrote that header file was written before there was a C standard; to
Nov 27 10:55:50 <timelyx> my knowledge, this is the first instance of this behavior I've seen.
Nov 27 10:55:50 <timelyx> (That data structure was added somewhere around 1986 or 1987, IIRC).
Nov 27 10:55:52 <czr> timelyx, which one?
Nov 27 10:56:00 <czr> ah. that one. yeah :-)
Nov 27 10:56:03 <unique311> i just disconnected it the same way i didn before, disconnected it from the device also.  then i turned on the headset and did the connect from the device, and it worked
Nov 27 10:56:33 <unique311> hope that made sense
Nov 27 10:57:52 <czr> timelyx, not too many bugs that I can verify actually.
Nov 27 10:58:07 <czr> timelyx, but thanks for the tip, will try to verify from now on whenever they're fixed
Nov 27 10:58:58 <timelyx> czr: you can make a whine, actually you probably can't
Nov 27 10:59:01 <czr> btw, does anyone know whether 'konttori' = "Urho Konttori" (bugzilla)
Nov 27 10:59:03 <timelyx> but i could let you make a whine
Nov 27 10:59:24 <czr> he's not around and I want to tell him about a bug
Nov 27 10:59:43 <GeneralAntilles> afaik, yes, czr.
Nov 27 11:00:07 <czr> GeneralAntilles, ok, thanks
Nov 27 11:04:20 <timelyx> ok, i give up
Nov 27 11:04:30 <timelyx> i can not figure out which stupid change fixed the russian bug
Nov 27 11:05:19 <czr> timelyx, interesting. once I verified a bug, it was now switched to closed. so I guess verification is something that is done :-)
Nov 27 11:05:32 <czr> (by someone, not automatically)
Nov 27 11:05:37 <czr> or maybe automatically by someone
Nov 27 11:06:06 <timelyx> hrm
Nov 27 11:06:19 <timelyx> there's a "view bug activity" link
Nov 27 11:06:32 <timelyx> ok, this is confusing: http://maemo.org/news/tableteer/
Nov 27 11:07:17 <czr> no news content
Nov 27 11:07:54 <timelyx> czr, 2075 is yours
Nov 27 11:08:36 <czr> timeless, I know. can't verify it
Nov 27 11:08:39 <czr> don't have OS2007 running
Nov 27 11:09:01 <czr> tried to use that url with OS2008 and was redirected into a completely different place
Nov 27 11:09:19 <timelyx> i included steps for verifying :)
Nov 27 11:09:20 <czr> and yes, I know I could change the identification but bleh..
Nov 27 11:09:45 <czr> so you think verifying without the original sw version is verifying? ;-)
Nov 27 11:09:54 <timelyx> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1381#c2 is fun
Nov 27 11:09:57 <czr> that's cheating :-)
Nov 27 11:10:04 <timelyx> well um...
Nov 27 11:10:10 <timelyx> what are we verifying?
Nov 27 11:10:23 <timelyx> in this case, we're verifying that the page (reached however) is not broken
Nov 27 11:10:34 <timelyx> as such, i sanction all efforts to extract the page
Nov 27 11:10:46 <timelyx> as long as you have faith that such efforts will not result in the wrong page
Nov 27 11:11:04 <czr> ah. true
Nov 27 11:11:16 * czr mumbles something about "it's still cheating".
Nov 27 11:11:26 <czr> I'll have a smoke and verify
Nov 27 11:15:41 <RussB> I'm back... another question: I can't seem to sudo gainroot...
Nov 27 11:15:48 <RussB> On OS2008 on the N800...
Nov 27 11:16:00 <czr> RussB, enable R&D mode with the flasher
Nov 27 11:16:10 <RussB> Ahhh... k
Nov 27 11:16:53 <timelyx> try this url:
Nov 27 11:16:54 <timelyx> http://search.maemo.org/search?q=&site=wiki&btnG=maemo+search&output=xml_no_dtd
Nov 27 11:17:11 <czr> break
Nov 27 11:17:20 <czr> fatal parsin error
Nov 27 11:17:34 <czr> +g
Nov 27 11:18:22 <czr> "The index may not be ready. Try again in a minute."
Nov 27 11:18:31 <czr> (at the end of the url)
Nov 27 11:25:31 <timelyx> oh brother
Nov 27 11:26:11 <timelyx> can you verify 2154? add https://maemo.org/community/wiki/bugsmaemoorgreorg/ as the url field value and use it for testing
Nov 27 11:26:18 * timelyx can't because the stupid banner bar doesn't work right
Nov 27 11:26:31 <czr> add where?
Nov 27 11:27:11 <timelyx> the bug's url field of course :)
Nov 27 11:27:17 <timelyx> the field you keep forgetting to fill in
Nov 27 11:27:32 <timelyx> someday i'll have banged that into a couple of you maemo reporters
Nov 27 11:27:34 <timelyx> maybe 3
Nov 27 11:28:13 <czr> I fill the url field nowadays
Nov 27 11:28:17 <czr> when possible/makes sense
Nov 27 11:28:41 <pupnik_> 18 days to N810
Nov 27 11:28:56 <czr> timelyx, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing btw
Nov 27 11:29:02 <czr> timelyx, url opens just fine here
Nov 27 11:29:24 <czr> although mind you, my account works now.
Nov 27 11:29:37 <timelyx> there should be a toolbar
Nov 27 11:29:48 <L0cutus> i'll buy the n810 display on ebay and put it on my n800 , the perfect solution :)
Nov 27 11:29:53 <timelyx> the toolbar should have some menu that would let you try to subscribe to be informed about changes to the page
Nov 27 11:29:56 <timelyx> (read bug)
Nov 27 11:29:57 <czr> there's none, but I'm using a legacy version of the browser. plus my account has super-privs anyway ;-)
Nov 27 11:30:05 <czr> let me try in firefox
Nov 27 11:31:18 <timelyx> wow
Nov 27 11:31:39 <czr> subscribed
Nov 27 11:31:48 <czr> no probs. But, as I said, my account has superpowers
Nov 27 11:31:57 <czr> so I'm not sure I'm the correct person trying thing
Nov 27 11:31:59 <czr> this even
Nov 27 11:32:26 * timelyx ponders
Nov 27 11:32:29 <timelyx> fair enough, bug Jaffa :)
Nov 27 11:32:32 <czr> I can't change the URL btw
Nov 27 11:32:39 <czr> "You tried to change the URL field to https://maemo.org/community/wiki/bugsmaemoorgreorg/ , but only the assignee or reporter of the bug, or a sufficiently empowered user may change that field."
Nov 27 11:32:58 <czr> why should I bug jaffa? you bug him :-)
Nov 27 11:32:59 <timelyx> oh brother
Nov 27 11:33:31 <timelyx> try again
Nov 27 11:34:15 <pupnik_> the community should keep up with the blogs from maemo people
Nov 27 11:34:28 <timelyx> ?
Nov 27 11:34:32 <czr> timelyx, added
Nov 27 11:35:23 <pupnik_> http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/    for e.g. -- and the rest
Nov 27 11:35:35 <czr> pupnik_, why?
Nov 27 11:36:37 <timelyx> pupnik_: i'd bury his article right away
Nov 27 11:36:44 <timelyx> first he again fails to market to americans
Nov 27 11:36:51 <czr> bury it "straight and deep"
Nov 27 11:36:56 * Jaffa sees his name whilst waiting for an svn commit hook to complete
Nov 27 11:36:56 <timelyx> yes yes
Nov 27 11:38:21 <timelyx> actually
Nov 27 11:38:25 <Jaffa> timelyx/czr: what do you want me to do?
Nov 27 11:38:27 <pupnik_> i didn't keep up with the nokia developer blogs, but now i find them revealing andn interesting
Nov 27 11:38:27 <timelyx> is he syndicated by planet?
Nov 27 11:38:36 <czr> Jaffa, blame timelyx, I'm innocent
Nov 27 11:38:47 <timelyx> czr: did you punt on verifying that bug?
Nov 27 11:39:02 <czr> timelyx, no. I didn't see why I should :-)
Nov 27 11:39:17 <czr> I try to steer away from webish things, unless there's something broken with the content.
Nov 27 11:39:24 <Jaffa> pupnik_: which community *isn't* keeping up with "the blogs from maemo people"? I read pmo several times a day
Nov 27 11:41:06 * Jaffa has a wry grin at the first two sentences on http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/2007/10/nokia-n810-announced.html ;-)
Nov 27 11:41:20 <timelyx> czr: can you give the bug # to jaffa :)
Nov 27 11:41:38 <czr> timelyx, why are you being such a difficult person/bot now? :-)
Nov 27 11:41:49 <czr> 2154
Nov 27 11:42:07 <timelyx> very short term memory :)
Nov 27 11:42:11 <czr> heh jaffa at url
Nov 27 11:43:00 <timelyx> ok, i said i woudl, and i did. bury :)
Nov 27 11:43:44 <RussB> czr: that worked, thanks!
Nov 27 11:43:55 <czr> RussB, np. I'll send the invoice tomorrow.
Nov 27 11:44:01 <RussB> :-)
Nov 27 11:44:16 <Jaffa> timelyx/czr: so I should try subscribing to that page and see if it works?
Nov 27 11:45:02 * czr has no idea
Nov 27 11:45:08 <czr> subbing worked for me
Nov 27 11:45:10 <czr> try subbing
Nov 27 11:45:25 <Jaffa> Didn't give me an error, but I can't find a way of seeing what I'm actually subscribed to.
Nov 27 11:45:35 <czr> timelyx, err. my about:config does not have useragent.override.
Nov 27 11:45:45 <czr> Jaffa, same here
Nov 27 11:46:01 <czr> but I guess people were having more of an issue with their accounts than subbing to the page per se
Nov 27 11:46:09 <czr> the bug report isn't very clear on what the issue was
Nov 27 11:46:32 <timelyx> you just have to create it
Nov 27 11:46:38 <timelyx> it doesn't exist by default...
Nov 27 11:47:16 <timelyx> the picture had a red link instead of black
Nov 27 11:47:24 <timelyx> my guess is that it wasn't clickable
Nov 27 11:47:27 <timelyx> dunno :)
Nov 27 11:47:34 <timelyx> i never figured out what it did either :)
Nov 27 11:49:52 * db48x works on his irc activity distribution some more
Nov 27 11:52:05 <czr> timelyx, bleh, I fail at verying 2075
Nov 27 11:52:21 <czr> "Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand." & "Request header field is missing ':' separator."
Nov 27 11:53:27 <czr> probably a newline hidden in the field now
Nov 27 12:15:09 <gokr> May I ask about the calendar app(s) on maemo? I am thinking of getting an n810.
Nov 27 12:21:58 <halley> "may I ask" is useless on IRC, just ask.
Nov 27 12:23:12 <gokr> Of course.
Nov 27 12:23:32 <gokr> Well, just wondering how it stacks up - and which calendar app people use.
Nov 27 12:24:00 <srwalter> what replaced gdbm in chinook?
Nov 27 12:25:27 <lardman> gokr: there's gpe-calendar and something from poky
Nov 27 12:43:09 <gokr> thanks
Nov 27 12:52:21 <rothiel> Hi guys :)
Nov 27 12:52:52 <pupnik_> moo
Nov 27 13:33:24 <maddler> morning all...
Nov 27 13:33:42 <Tak> buon giorno
Nov 27 13:33:43 <_matthias_> morning
Nov 27 13:33:44 <_Monkey> aloha
Nov 27 13:33:50 <maddler> Tak: a te! :D
Nov 27 13:34:03 <maddler> _Monkey: aloha kahua! :D
Nov 27 13:34:04 <_Monkey> maddler: excuse me?
Nov 27 13:34:14 <maddler> _Monkey: yep....
Nov 27 13:34:15 <_Monkey> maddler: i'm not following you...
Nov 27 13:34:21 <maddler> _Monkey: ?
Nov 27 13:34:21 <_Monkey> i haven't a clue, maddler
Nov 27 13:34:38 <maddler> me neither... what are we talking bout? it could help... ;)
Nov 27 13:35:16 <Jaffa> lo maddler
Nov 27 13:38:51 <maddler> Jaffa: heya!
Nov 27 13:40:34 <maddler> doh! Just realized _Monkey is a bot! :D
Nov 27 13:40:36 <maddler> lol!!!
Nov 27 13:41:03 <Jaffa> maddler: heh, it's because he makes the same amount of sense as Darius\d+ on ITT.
Nov 27 13:44:17 <timeless> that's scary
Nov 27 13:45:41 <Xtrophy> timelyx dont u ever sleep
Nov 27 13:45:53 <timeless> while you aren't watching :)
Nov 27 13:47:02 <Xtrophy> does he do bad things while he sleeping
Nov 27 13:47:07 <Tak> he doesn't know about the live webcam yet
Nov 27 13:47:28 <Xtrophy> ow
Nov 27 13:47:43 <Xtrophy> O_o
Nov 27 13:48:30 <truls> speaking of cams, anything fun you can do with the camera on the n800, anyone written any fun apps for it?
Nov 27 13:48:40 <truls> like print-club stuff, or something?
Nov 27 13:49:51 <Xtrophy> timelyx they r asking o u :P
Nov 27 13:49:58 <Xtrophy> to*
Nov 27 13:49:59 <Tak> actually, I was wondering if anybody had gotten around to writing an app that averaged N frames from the camera for a better-quality still
Nov 27 13:50:46 <Xtrophy> N X Y theese are serious variables... Its looks hard idk.
Nov 27 13:52:01 <truls> ack, i just need a spreadsheet to enter some dates and times and descriptions into...
Nov 27 13:52:26 * truls is billing hours, and paper is soo 9s
Nov 27 13:52:27 <truls> 90s
Nov 27 13:52:58 <rghosh> Tak: not sure if that wouldn't just make a blurry image?
Nov 27 13:53:11 <rghosh> odd that camera stuff that works on the n800 with os2007 doesn't with os2008
Nov 27 13:53:19 <truls> rghosh: i'd hope you'd place the n800 on a stable surface first
Nov 27 13:53:41 <db48x> you don't even have to do that
Nov 27 13:53:47 <timeless> truls: docs.google.com? :)
Nov 27 13:54:10 <truls> timeless: hm... actually that might work, but would prefer to have my data local
Nov 27 13:54:15 <db48x> it's not hard to compose several images from an uncalibrated and unstable camera, you can download software to do it
Nov 27 13:54:39 * truls didn't realize
Nov 27 13:54:55 <rghosh> interesting
Nov 27 13:55:22 <rghosh> i would have thought even initiating the task through touch screen or built-in button would impart a small amount of motion to the camera
Nov 27 13:55:29 <rghosh> i don't see the point in doing it remotely
Nov 27 13:55:38 <rghosh> can't be that hard up for a digital camera?
Nov 27 13:56:57 <db48x> http://www.eyetap.org/research/comparametrics.html
Nov 27 13:57:23 <rghosh> curious that this video recording gstreamer pipeline command (runnable from the command line) works in os2007 but not os2008 (same device):  19:24
Nov 27 13:57:23 <rghosh> gst-launch-0.10 gconfv4l2src ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144 ! tee name=tee ! hantro4200enc ! avimux name=mux ! filesink location=test.avi { dsppcmsrc ! queue ! audio/x-raw-int,channels=1,rate=8000 !audioconvert ! mux. } { tee. ! video/x-raw-yuv ! xvimagesink sync=false } 19:24
Nov 27 13:57:23 <rghosh> if i change "video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144" to "video/x-raw-yuv,width=176,height=144,framerate=\(fraction\)8/1", it doesn't crash, but it still doesn't work
Nov 27 13:58:03 <truls> ah, got gnumeric set up on the n800
Nov 27 13:58:04 <truls> yay
Nov 27 13:58:05 <db48x> scroll down to the image
Nov 27 13:58:20 <db48x> truls: I just use a text file to keep track of hours
Nov 27 13:58:28 <db48x> forget giant spreadsheet programs
Nov 27 13:58:41 <rghosh> so they have tripods for n800s? :)
Nov 27 13:58:45 <rghosh> still don't see the point, frankly
Nov 27 13:58:54 <db48x> rghosh: tripods?
Nov 27 13:58:59 <rghosh> um yeah
Nov 27 13:59:01 <rghosh> for a stable shot
Nov 27 13:59:06 <db48x> nah
Nov 27 13:59:17 <rghosh> without a tripod,
Nov 27 13:59:24 <rghosh> you wouldn't get that shot in the example
Nov 27 13:59:33 <db48x> which example?
Nov 27 13:59:36 <rghosh> out of sequential shots
Nov 27 13:59:59 <rghosh> the "plurality of images"
Nov 27 14:00:03 <rghosh> from http://www.eyetap.org/research/comparametrics.html
Nov 27 14:00:17 <rghosh> without a tripod, the "plurality of images" would not exactly coincide
Nov 27 14:00:22 <db48x> oh, those were just sequential video frames from a hand held camera
Nov 27 14:00:29 <db48x> that's the point
Nov 27 14:00:37 <db48x> they don't have to exactly coincide
Nov 27 14:01:16 <rghosh> hmm
Nov 27 14:01:27 <db48x> the same software can handle any motion the camera makes, even if it results in a non-affine transformation of the image
Nov 27 14:01:35 <db48x> (such as rotation of the camera, as in that example)
Nov 27 14:01:37 <rghosh> that was my next question
Nov 27 14:01:53 <rghosh> very good then
Nov 27 14:02:10 <truls> db48x: i don't need a giant thing, but i want tables
Nov 27 14:02:18 <db48x> plus you can take multiple shots without moving the camera, varying the exposure instead
Nov 27 14:02:26 <truls> i could have just made something with a gtk-table widget though, but...
Nov 27 14:02:27 <Xtrophy> Dont click
Nov 27 14:02:29 <db48x> and combine them into a single image with a greater dynamic range
Nov 27 14:02:30 <Xtrophy> its keylogger
Nov 27 14:03:09 <db48x> truls: what kind of a table?
Nov 27 14:03:14 <rghosh> anyone here actually use that software?
Nov 27 14:03:26 <rghosh> correction from non-affine transformations could possibly suck on the n800's processor
Nov 27 14:03:26 <truls> db48x: like a grid
Nov 27 14:03:33 <db48x> truls: I just do "foo | 1200 | 1500 | blah blah blah" :)
Nov 27 14:03:42 <db48x> rghosh: possibly, possibly :)
Nov 27 14:04:03 <truls> db48x: well, that works, but if i can, i'd rather use a real tabke
Nov 27 14:04:05 <truls> table
Nov 27 14:04:08 <db48x> rghosh: I think that guy was using a P4 in his wearable computer, and it can do it in real time
Nov 27 14:04:16 <db48x> truls: yea
Nov 27 14:04:35 <rghosh> lol nice
Nov 27 14:04:49 <db48x> there are some cool videos on that site
Nov 27 14:05:03 <Xtrophy> dont be sick
Nov 27 14:05:49 <db48x> http://www.eyetap.org/research/medr/times_square_email.avi
Nov 27 14:07:38 <db48x> http://www.eyetap.org/research/medr/rwm.html
Nov 27 14:08:27 * alterego writes a script to poll the nokia.co.uk product list.
Nov 27 14:09:01 <truls> alterego: you working on a todo-app now?
Nov 27 14:09:07 * db48x yawns
Nov 27 14:09:17 <alterego> truls, no. Doing real work ;)
Nov 27 14:09:20 <db48x> I should just turn around and go right back to bed
Nov 27 14:09:45 <truls> alterego: heh, right
Nov 27 14:10:51 <Xtrophy> j/list
Nov 27 14:14:29 <truls> ack, seems the gnumeric doesn't register any filetypes with hildon..
Nov 27 14:14:43 <truls> and can't even use it to open up an unregistered file
Nov 27 14:14:48 <unique311> flash for the device is not picking up that i have a camera on the device.  Is it possible to make it pick up that the device has a camera?
Nov 27 14:15:10 <unique311> or is this linux in general.
Nov 27 14:15:27 <unique311> flash for linux limitation.
Nov 27 14:16:14 <unique311> can someone running linux on a desktop see if flash pick up the webcam
Nov 27 14:16:16 <unique311> ?
Nov 27 14:17:12 <sp3000> truls: how is a script to poll the nokia.co.uk product list not a todo-app ;)
Nov 27 14:18:28 * sp3000 dives back into the magical world of sql
Nov 27 14:20:05 <czr> sp3000, pronounced: squeeel
Nov 27 14:20:17 * sp3000 squeeels
Nov 27 14:20:22 <czr> the sound that server makes
Nov 27 14:21:01 <truls> odd, gnumeric opens my document fine from commandline, both if i pass the filename as regular path and as URI
Nov 27 14:21:02 * czr needs to get some food and sleep
Nov 27 14:21:02 <sp3000> hrm, I was hoping I could run this query in less than an hour :\
Nov 27 14:21:11 <czr> sp3000, no indices?
Nov 27 14:21:15 <truls> but will not open it if i doubleclick my document, then select gnumeric to run it
Nov 27 14:21:32 <sp3000> it's a bit convoluted
Nov 27 14:21:34 * truls wonders what parameters is sent to the application from the hildon manager
Nov 27 14:22:24 <czr> sp3000, I can imagine. has to do something with maemo, right? would explain :-)
Nov 27 14:22:35 <sp3000> heh
Nov 27 14:23:04 <czr> was talking with some admins from "slightly larger" environment. they're using rrdtool a lot
Nov 27 14:23:13 <czr> only rrdtool is crap. when you have a lot of rrds
Nov 27 14:23:34 <czr> so they ended up buying 32 GiB RAM to the host that updates the rrds and keep all of the rrds on ramfs
Nov 27 14:23:47 <czr> and then once a night sync them onto the disk. that's pretty convoluted :-)
Nov 27 14:24:09 <czr> so you could solve your problem like that as well :-). Just buy enough RAM to fit all of the DB into RAM. easypeasy.
Nov 27 14:24:52 <Jaffa> alterego: something like wget -qO- 'http://shop.nokia.co.uk/nokia-uk/default.aspx?culture=en-GB' | grep N810 && echo 'Bingo!' - you mean?
Nov 27 14:25:36 <alterego> Jaffa, yeah. Something like that ;)
Nov 27 14:25:43 <czr> echo Bingo would be easier though
Nov 27 14:25:48 * czr hides & runs away
Nov 27 14:26:17 <truls> hm, ah, so when filemanager opens a program to run a file, it doesn't pass the filename as a parameter?
Nov 27 14:26:27 <alterego> Good afternoon czr.
Nov 27 14:26:43 <alterego> truls, it doesn't?
Nov 27 14:26:50 <alterego> :)
Nov 27 14:27:03 <czr> hey alterego
Nov 27 14:27:03 <_Monkey> or working on a Ruby todo app
Nov 27 14:27:16 <alterego> Eh?
Nov 27 14:27:20 <alterego> Heh
Nov 27 14:27:28 <czr> monkey recognizes you :-)
Nov 27 14:27:29 <alterego> Why is my name associated with a Ruby todo app :P
Nov 27 14:28:06 <alterego> brb
Nov 27 14:29:58 * Jaffa slaps czr
Nov 27 14:30:24 <czr> uh.. what.. where..
Nov 27 14:30:32 <truls> alterego: well, my app didn't receive anything in sys.argv (python-app) when choosing it as a runner for an unregistered file
Nov 27 14:30:33 * czr puts a trout into jaffas pocket
Nov 27 14:30:38 <Khertan_TheReal> alterego > lol
Nov 27 14:30:48 <truls> or do you have to register how it runs files somehow?
Nov 27 14:31:09 <unique311> Only ALSA is supported for microphone input and speaker output, and only Video4Linux v1 is supported for camera input.
Nov 27 14:31:22 <unique311> camera on the n800 should work then?
Nov 27 14:33:03 <pupnik_> so how are sales of N810s doing in USA?  sold out?
Nov 27 14:33:07 <unique311> n800 vl42, should i write to the flash guys, and tell them to up the support to version 2
Nov 27 14:35:07 * alterego doesn't get this we want flash video webcam fad.
Nov 27 14:35:15 <unique311> oh...
Nov 27 14:35:35 <unique311> ustreamtv and blogtv
Nov 27 14:36:15 <alterego> Sounds rubbish :P
Nov 27 14:36:23 <unique311> wow
Nov 27 14:36:28 <alterego> Who'd want to see your ugly face talking on a blog :P
Nov 27 14:36:40 <unique311> ok.
Nov 27 14:36:53 <unique311> you are a crack baby.
Nov 27 14:37:11 <alterego> I think it was LSD actually
Nov 27 14:37:17 <unique311> same difference
Nov 27 14:37:46 <db48x> yea, I don't want to have to deal with real content in video form until videos are as easily searchable as text
Nov 27 14:38:18 <db48x> funny youtube videos are different though
Nov 27 14:39:07 <unique311> i know thoughtfix blogged on this once.  I guess it would only benefit those who video blog.
Nov 27 14:40:01 <unique311> but thats open source, you want a feature, better hope a developer wants that feature also, or you are SOL
Nov 27 14:40:35 <unique311> O_0
Nov 27 14:41:22 <unique311> a linux thang
Nov 27 14:42:03 <derf> No, you can pay for a feature to be developed.
Nov 27 14:42:16 <unique311> pay
Nov 27 14:42:18 <derf> Just like you do for any proprietary software.
Nov 27 14:42:40 <unique311> isn't flash free.
Nov 27 14:42:42 <derf> Except you wind up with much more at the end.
Nov 27 14:43:13 <db48x> flash isn't free
Nov 27 14:43:25 <unique311> why would i need to pay for the feature to be added, which might be working, but just not on the n800 mind you.
Nov 27 14:43:30 <db48x> zero monetary cost to the consumer, maybe
Nov 27 14:43:33 <derf> I think you are very confused.
Nov 27 14:44:11 <unique311> i might be, so enlighten me.
Nov 27 14:44:54 <unique311> so who needs to pay who in order to get that flash camera feature to work on the N800?
Nov 27 14:45:04 <timeless> unique311: the flash team couldn't manage to get camera working. they know, there's a bug. i bug them quarterly.
Nov 27 14:45:12 <unique311> cool
Nov 27 14:45:15 <unique311> thanks timeless.
Nov 27 14:45:29 <timeless> unique311: out of curiosity, did you find the bugs.maemo.org report?
Nov 27 14:45:48 <Jaffa> unique311: why, in open source, do I need a developer to need it too? This is exactly the case with closed source software too: if you can't develop it yourself, someone needs to do it for you.
Nov 27 14:45:57 <unique311> i just google, adobe flash linux camera support
Nov 27 14:46:02 <unique311> didn't bother with the bugs
Nov 27 14:46:10 <timeless> as for whom to bribe, it's basically either adobe or unmentionables
Nov 27 14:46:19 * timeless considers bugging them now
Nov 27 14:46:27 <derf> Jaffa: That was exactly my point.
Nov 27 14:46:27 <db48x> Jaffa: yea, but flash isn't open source, so none of that helps him
Nov 27 14:46:43 <derf> db48x: Well, he was criticizing open source.
Nov 27 14:47:09 <db48x> ah, I missed that
Nov 27 14:47:25 <derf> 09:40:00 < unique311> but thats open source, you want a feature, better hope a developer wants that feature also, or you are SOL
Nov 27 14:47:27 <db48x> unique311: yea, you can't blame this bug on the open source development process, since flash isn't open source
Nov 27 14:47:34 <unique311> hey don't copy and paste me.
Nov 27 14:47:38 <unique311> ;)
Nov 27 14:47:42 <derf> I have no advice for his specific situation.
Nov 27 14:47:52 <db48x> I do. don't use flash. :)
Nov 27 14:47:54 <derf> Other than bug timeless, which seems to be working.
Nov 27 14:47:54 * timeless slaps unique311 w/ a bug database
Nov 27 14:48:03 <timeless> please learn to search the bug database
Nov 27 14:48:09 <timeless> you do get points for using google
Nov 27 14:48:10 <unique311> would saying LINUX be better than saying open source?
Nov 27 14:48:21 <timeless> but you get a few more points for also checking the  bug database :)
Nov 27 14:48:22 <derf> unique311: No. Linux is open source.
Nov 27 14:48:29 <db48x> unique311: no, because flash isn't part of linux
Nov 27 14:48:30 <unique311> ok.
Nov 27 14:48:31 <timeless> linux is a mess :)
Nov 27 14:48:37 <czr> linux is a kernel!
Nov 27 14:48:37 <unique311> i suck then, is that cool with ya'll
Nov 27 14:48:45 <czr> the kernel is a mess though, but that's different.
Nov 27 14:48:47 <db48x> timeless: it's our mess though
Nov 27 14:48:52 <derf> You might be able to say, "It's a software thing."
Nov 27 14:49:02 <czr> or "It's not hardware. kind of"
Nov 27 14:49:06 <derf> Flash is, in fact, software.
Nov 27 14:49:08 <unique311> derf, i'll take it.
Nov 27 14:49:12 <czr> seeing as most hardware works via firmware anyway
Nov 27 14:49:22 <derf> And you have the same problem with _all_ software features.
Nov 27 14:49:42 <Jaffa> Indeed.
Nov 27 14:50:11 <db48x> unique311: no, you don't suck. you merely haven't learned all that you need to learn yet
Nov 27 14:50:50 <czr> db48x, does one ever actually reach that point?
Nov 27 14:50:50 * Jaffa wishes he had time to learn all the things he *knows* he needs to learn; let alone relearn all the stuff I've forgotten, or find out what I don't currently know I need to learn :-(
Nov 27 14:51:03 <Jaffa> Hmm, personal pronoun mixage.
Nov 27 14:51:05 <derf> Jaffa: Join the club.
Nov 27 14:51:05 * czr gives a book on visual basic to jaffa
Nov 27 14:51:15 <unique311> Jaffa, that confused me.
Nov 27 14:51:36 <rafl> what's a sensible value for /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/wlan_sleep_timeout if you're having problems with the default (200)?
Nov 27 14:51:39 <unique311> also am confused for being addressed about making that open source statement.
Nov 27 14:51:51 <unique311> and then addressed in saying i sucked for doing so.
Nov 27 14:51:53 <Jaffa> czr: Fortunately, I've both learnt and forgotten enough of that to be useful enough in it to know to not do it again (unless in specific rare circumstances)
Nov 27 14:52:03 <czr> unique311, take it like a man :-)
Nov 27 14:52:10 <Jaffa> rafl: I've heard 1000 mentioned
Nov 27 14:52:15 <derf> unique311: The idea is very important. You do _not_ have to be a developer to take advantage of the source code available with open source.
Nov 27 14:52:22 <czr> Jaffa, I know the feeling too well :-)
Nov 27 14:52:33 <derf> And I don't recall saying anyone sucked.
Nov 27 14:52:37 <czr> Jaffa, but you can use the book to light a fire when in dire straits
Nov 27 14:52:41 * Jaffa ponders trying to get an Eee whilst waiting for an N810
Nov 27 14:52:50 <Jaffa> czr: ah, good plan :)
Nov 27 14:53:04 <unique311> well i said i sucked, but then was told i don't.
Nov 27 14:53:13 <czr> Jaffa, I keep all my MS techrefs still handly. 1 meter of microsoft manuals can't be bad when the nuclear winter hits.
Nov 27 14:53:14 <unique311> and needed to learn.
Nov 27 14:53:17 <rafl> Jaffa: will I need to restart after changing that value?
Nov 27 14:54:30 <Jaffa> rafl: given it's a /sys value, I assume not (it'd reset on boot AIUI)
Nov 27 14:54:50 <derf> unique311: Well, I'll just say your hopes have a much better chance of being fulfilled when you hand a developer money.
Nov 27 14:55:01 <derf> It's amazing how that can align someone else's interests with your own.
Nov 27 14:55:13 <czr> derf, so true.
Nov 27 14:56:00 <unique311> guess labor is not part of the free
Nov 27 14:56:16 <unique311> I didn't think of that.
Nov 27 14:56:20 <derf> Free means freedom.
Nov 27 14:56:29 <derf> You are free to pay anyone you want to do the development.
Nov 27 14:56:31 <czr> unique311, it is sometimes, but it's up to the one doing the labor. you can't demand anyone to do anything for free. or rather you can, but it'll be fruitless.
Nov 27 14:56:45 <derf> Which is _not_ true with closed source.
Nov 27 14:57:09 <unique311> no demanding here, What about asking really nicely.
Nov 27 14:57:49 <unique311> and pointing out all the individuals that would be happy in the developers accomplishments.
Nov 27 14:58:05 <derf> For some people that's enough.
Nov 27 14:58:17 <unique311> hope is still alive.
Nov 27 14:59:06 <derf> Finding a few dozen like-minded users willing to chip in a few bucks for a bounty might be more successful.
Nov 27 14:59:19 <timeless> opensource means money can talk
Nov 27 14:59:35 <timeless> closedsource sometimes means you need to hire a lawyer to find someone who will listen
Nov 27 15:01:54 <unique311> derf, SOL with that one.
Nov 27 15:02:15 <unique311> thoughtfix besides me, is the only other individual i know of that brung up that issue.
Nov 27 15:02:27 <unique311> and he's probably over it.
Nov 27 15:02:32 <derf> Well, it's really hard to get anything done in the software world without economies of scale.
Nov 27 15:02:39 <Jaffa> But it's irrelevant anyway, since a bounty won't work as it's closed source :)
Nov 27 15:03:06 <derf> If you're not leveraging the fact that the marginal cost of each additional unit is near-zero, the fixed costs will kill you.
Nov 27 15:04:49 <unique311> thanks everybody, i'll make sure next time i check maemo bugs, before i come in here starting S!$@
Nov 27 15:04:57 <WillySilly> what gtk version does 2007HE use?
Nov 27 15:05:00 <unique311> but i did learn alot.
Nov 27 15:06:16 <alterego> It's all about the layerz
Nov 27 15:06:37 <alterego> God damnit, I don't like how xchat fixes my purposeful typos.
Nov 27 15:06:55 * sp3000 finds his giant sql doh
Nov 27 15:07:01 <derf> WillySilly: I would assume 2.6, like the others, but I haven't used 2007HE specifically.
Nov 27 15:08:02 * sp3000 finds himself having engaged in rampant muppetry
Nov 27 15:13:42 <red-zack> i want to code some python things with my 770, are the packages for available?
Nov 27 15:14:02 <fysa> where is xchat for OS2K8?
Nov 27 15:14:36 <pupnik> repositories?
Nov 27 15:14:37 <_Monkey> i heard repositories was http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationRepositories  and a searchable index at http://www.gronmayer.com/n800/repos/index.php
Nov 27 15:16:33 <fysa> I should have known to check 'Maemo hakers' ;)
Nov 27 15:17:16 <Tak> alterego: Settings-Advanced-AutoReplace
Nov 27 15:17:28 <Tak> you don't want the Maemo-hackers one
Nov 27 15:17:32 <alterego> :)
Nov 27 15:17:44 <alterego> This is XChat on my workstation not tablet ;)
Nov 27 15:17:52 <red-zack> python support for 770?
Nov 27 15:17:56 <alterego> But thanks for the tip
Nov 27 15:18:06 <ajenna> I wanna use internet via bluetooth on my Nokia n73
Nov 27 15:18:16 <ajenna> but I do not know how
Nov 27 15:18:29 <ajenna> n somebody help here
Nov 27 15:18:30 <Tak> alterego: same menus
Nov 27 15:18:30 <ajenna> ???
Nov 27 15:18:36 <Tak> the second comment was to fysa actually
Nov 27 15:18:48 <red-zack> ajenna: bloetooth connection to your "modem"
Nov 27 15:18:53 <Tak> fysa: https://downloads.maemo.org/product/OS2007/maemo-xchat
Nov 27 15:18:56 <alterego> Has no one done internet connectivity how tos?
Nov 27 15:19:10 <red-zack> ajenna: you need to configure it before
Nov 27 15:19:20 <fysa> do I need libdbus hackery for that to work?
Nov 27 15:19:23 <alterego> People coming here and asking is getting old fast ..
Nov 27 15:20:01 * Tak shrugs
Nov 27 15:20:13 <ajenna> how can I configure it ?
Nov 27 15:20:42 <fysa> http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Nov 27 15:21:27 <fysa> wish there was an easy way to copy from desktop and paste to maemo
Nov 27 15:22:13 <Tak> aha
Nov 27 15:22:53 <fysa> actually.  I think it's time to try to get synergy working.
Nov 27 15:23:07 <fysa> I'm pretty sure it supports copy/paste.
Nov 27 15:23:13 <WillySilly> derf: so 2007 or 2008 dont use 2.8 or 2.10?
Nov 27 15:23:49 <derf> WillySilly: 2008 uses 2.10, I believe.
Nov 27 15:24:12 <WillySilly> derf: ah
Nov 27 15:24:46 <Khertan_TheReal> 2007 use 2.6
Nov 27 15:24:52 <WillySilly> derf: I only ask because Metasploit's gtk gui wants 2.10, I was pretty sure 2007 didnt use it, but I wasnt sure
Nov 27 15:25:58 <sp3000> red-zack: ooi, where's it say modem?
Nov 27 15:26:52 <red-zack> tablet->phone(modem)->inet
Nov 27 15:28:02 * sp3000 doesn't reacall seeing that term in the ui
Nov 27 15:28:22 <sp3000> then again I haven't seen os2007 in english lately
Nov 27 15:30:03 <sp3000> oh, left
Nov 27 15:30:13 * sp3000 would have pointed at the manual, it probably covers things like that
Nov 27 15:34:26 <fysa> ahh, glorious xchat
Nov 27 15:49:26 <lopz> hola
Nov 27 15:51:25 <pupnik> thank god music isn't totally dead-ended.  DubStep is a pretty nice new style
Nov 27 15:51:30 <pupnik> oop wrong chan
Nov 27 15:51:42 <jumpula> no problem. it was nice to know this :)
Nov 27 15:52:12 * jumpula = wicked
Nov 27 15:53:55 <zoran> pupnik, close to portishead?
Nov 27 15:55:03 <pupnik> zoran: portishead was like 10 years ago - popularized 'trip hop'
Nov 27 15:55:22 <pupnik> dubstep is a bit of that, a bit of dub, a bit of breakbeat in there
Nov 27 15:55:48 <zoran> I prefer Jefferson Airplane or Grateful Dead
Nov 27 15:56:21 <zoran> or Nick Cave last grindermen
Nov 27 15:57:51 <roue> hola
Nov 27 15:57:51 <_Monkey> hello, roue
Nov 27 15:58:13 <roue> quick, stupid question for a new n800 own (OS2008).  How do I put this thing to sleep without shutting it down?
Nov 27 15:58:15 <roue> thanks.
Nov 27 15:59:17 <Jaffa> roue: 1) you don't; 2) you just lock the screen; 3) in OS2007 you could enable a "soft power-off" mode-  this is currently broken in OS2008 AIUI
Nov 27 15:59:58 <zoran> sounds strange
Nov 27 16:00:44 <roue> Jaffa -- lock the screen and then the display stays on till it times out (1 minute currently) ?
Nov 27 16:00:59 <roue> is there a way to lock the screen without hitting the tiny recessed power button?
Nov 27 16:01:18 <roue> (I'm having a little trouble hitting the button -- fingers too big)
Nov 27 16:01:44 <procto> roue: just enable offline mode, and then lock the screen
Nov 27 16:01:54 <procto> enabling offline mode is going to save you a lot of battery
Nov 27 16:02:50 <roue> okay, thanks. I think I see how to do both of those things.
Nov 27 16:03:17 <zoran> if I get it correctly, no "shutdown -h now" ?
Nov 27 16:08:49 <|tbb|> anyone knows if maemomapper runs stable with detail mode 3 enabled?
Nov 27 16:09:37 <oil> is there an collection of apt-sources.lists which would be good to use with os2008?
Nov 27 16:10:39 <geoffeg> ok, yea, i can see how the new firmware rocks.. but.. Dear God, Nokia, include a "mark all feeds as read" in the RSS reader
Nov 27 16:10:54 <geoffeg> with 50 feeds i don't always want to read them all
Nov 27 16:11:38 <geoffeg> Is the RSS reader open source too?
Nov 27 16:11:49 <niteOwl2> Good Q. Anyone know?
Nov 27 16:11:57 <geoffeg> Cause I need to add that.
Nov 27 16:13:42 <procto> geoffeg: what's in the new firmware?
Nov 27 16:13:45 <procto> I'm resisting upgrading
Nov 27 16:14:28 <geoffeg> procto: First off everything just feels snappier.. it also just looks so much better from an appearance point of view. The UI feels like it was made to be used with your finger more than the stylus.
Nov 27 16:14:56 <geoffeg> procto: A version of what I assume to be navicore is included.. I need to get my SDHC card back from Kingston because the US maps are a 733 MB download.
Nov 27 16:15:15 <procto> oh, cool
Nov 27 16:15:30 <procto> can it run os2007 soft?
Nov 27 16:15:36 <procto> specifically, I want mplayer
Nov 27 16:15:40 <geoffeg> procto: It's the first version of the firmware that's strarting to really feel polished and smooth.
Nov 27 16:16:05 <geoffeg> procto: All software written for OS2007 needs to be ported (recompiled mostly) for OS2008
Nov 27 16:16:34 <procto> ah
Nov 27 16:16:44 <procto> I don't have a linux machine at home right now
Nov 27 16:16:58 <procto> so I'm going to hold off on upgrading for a bit longer
Nov 27 16:17:25 <Jaffa> procto: you shouldn't need to go into offline mode unless you have something which is keeping connections active and doing regular pings
Nov 27 16:17:50 <geoffeg> procto: Most of the important apps (Pidgin, FBReader, etc) are already ported.
Nov 27 16:17:54 <procto> Jaffa: oh, I do :>
Nov 27 16:18:02 <sKaBoy> geoffeg, there are sources for osso-rss-feed-reader (and applet) on repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/o/
Nov 27 16:18:15 <procto> Jaffa: I don't usually bother. I'm connected most of the time.
Nov 27 16:18:27 <geoffeg> sKaBoy: great, i might hack that to improve the RSS reader and make it more NetNewsWire like
Nov 27 16:18:31 <procto> Jaffa: but when I want to save some battery while I'm doing something else, I go offline
Nov 27 16:19:18 <procto> ah, LXDoom is ported to os2008
Nov 27 16:19:22 <procto> most important app :>
Nov 27 16:19:47 <geoffeg>  the main app menu just feels so fast!
Nov 27 16:24:29 <|tbb|> no1 using maemo-mapper ?
Nov 27 16:25:22 <unique311> hey who was around for my little flash rant earlier
Nov 27 16:25:42 <unique311> timeless, BUSY?
Nov 27 16:26:14 <pupnik> flash is like dog farts :)
Nov 27 16:26:38 <unique311> i think i have some good info on why the camera is not being picked up.
Nov 27 16:27:12 <unique311> i browsed to barcodepedia and when i clicked on allow flash to access whatever it wants to.
Nov 27 16:27:42 <unique311> the message i get back states Access to webcam is disallowed by user.
Nov 27 16:28:31 <Khertan_TheReal> <procto> most important app :> > pfffff nawak ! the most important is Quake !
Nov 27 16:28:33 <Khertan_TheReal> :)
Nov 27 16:28:44 <unique311> but then, how does the user have access to webcam when the gmail chat program is being used.
Nov 27 16:29:06 <unique311> also gizmo
Nov 27 16:29:10 <geoffeg> Would anyone find a desktop widget that allows you to track packages  (fedex, UPS, etc) usefull?
Nov 27 16:30:02 <Khertan_TheReal> geoffeg > useless for me ... their tracking are always 3 or 4 day late
Nov 27 16:30:26 <roue> unique311 maybe check to find the /dev entry for the camera. It may be that the read/write permissions need to be changed.
Nov 27 16:30:28 <geoffeg> Khertan_TheReal: USPS's tracking sucks but Fedex and UPS seem fairly up-to-date
Nov 27 16:30:35 <Khertan_TheReal> for example my n800 was tracking as registered :) and i ve it in my hand :)
Nov 27 16:30:43 <roue> probably /dev/video0 if it's anything like a desktop linux v4l device.
Nov 27 16:30:44 <bill20r3> geoffeg, that'd be neat.
Nov 27 16:30:59 <unique311> let me check
Nov 27 16:31:05 <bill20r3> save me the constant reloading.
Nov 27 16:31:33 <Khertan_TheReal> geoffeg > not a lot in france :) it s depends mainly on locals succursales
Nov 27 16:31:52 <unique311> i see video0
Nov 27 16:32:07 <geoffeg> Khertan_TheReal: Does France have their own private package delivery companies that are similar to UPS and Fedex?
Nov 27 16:32:41 <Khertan_TheReal> geoffeg > their is a public too ... nammed 'laposte' or 'chronopost'... but it worse :)
Nov 27 16:32:48 <Khertan_TheReal> it s worse
Nov 27 16:32:54 <unique311> roue user has access to the dev, gizmo and the chat app that comes installed with the device is started by user
Nov 27 16:32:57 <geoffeg> Khertan_TheReal: ok.. well.. a package tracking app for Real Countries :)
Nov 27 16:33:00 <oil> geoffeg: ask the companies to suppor rss-feed
Nov 27 16:33:17 <Jaffa> unique311: the error reporting could well be very broken and/or related to the bug which timeless mentioned
Nov 27 16:34:11 <Khertan_TheReal> geoffeg> for infos if you want to add it : http://www.us.chronopost.com/web/en/
Nov 27 16:34:45 <roue> unique311 yep, that looks to be the case on mine too.
Nov 27 16:35:34 <geoffeg> Khertan_TheReal: The most likely way I'd do it is to have a server-side component I run and then have the applet pull from a simple interface on that server.
Nov 27 16:35:42 <geoffeg> Khertan_TheReal: to keep the applet as simple as possible
Nov 27 16:35:47 <timeless> ok, so um
Nov 27 16:35:52 <timeless> unique311: as it happens
Nov 27 16:35:59 <timeless> camera support can be done by someone other than us
Nov 27 16:36:05 <timeless> it's in a library which theoretically is open source
Nov 27 16:36:21 <unique311> but it looks like support is there already.
Nov 27 16:36:43 <unique311> timeless, browse to this url with the tablet
Nov 27 16:36:46 <unique311> http://parentnode.org/flash/easy-to-embed-webcam-based-barcode-scanner-in-flash/
Nov 27 16:36:54 <timeless> if i were to place a guess, i'd say it's probably http://pulseaudio.vdbonline.net/libflashsupport/
Nov 27 16:37:14 <timeless> unique: sorry, i have a headache
Nov 27 16:37:18 <unique311> i just check the bugs on maemo, looks more like a request from thoughtfix
Nov 27 16:37:23 <timeless> i just spent an hour collecting people to translate 1 sentence
Nov 27 16:37:26 <Khertan_TheReal> geoffeg > it s the best way
Nov 27 16:37:29 <timeless> and then notepad ate my translation
Nov 27 16:37:32 <unique311> np
Nov 27 16:40:01 <unique311> 1889 is a request.
Nov 27 16:40:28 <geoffeg> so who wants to buy me an N95?
Nov 27 16:40:31 <geoffeg> GIVE ME
Nov 27 16:41:46 <timeless> geoffeg: send me 1kEUR via paypal and i'll buy you an n95
Nov 27 16:42:02 <unique311> so yeah, jaffa no bug just a request and the other bug that showed up on the search doesn't deal with flash.
Nov 27 16:42:02 <geoffeg> timeless: no no, you've got it all wrong.. you want to give me one.. for free
Nov 27 16:43:07 <chx> anyone compared the N810 to the E90? I know , E90 is not Linux but functionality-wise (keyboard, gps...) looks similar?
Nov 27 16:43:42 <timeless> chx: i tried selling an n810 to someone planning to buy an e90 :)
Nov 27 16:43:50 <timeless> still not sure which way the guy is going :)
Nov 27 16:43:52 <CosmicRay> hi folks.  I've got an N810 here, OS2008.  I've installed openssh-server and am trying to figure out how to set a password for the user or root account to log in.  The info on the wiki (root password "rootme") doesn't seem to work.  And all the other info I've found is for the 770.  What's the curren't best way to get root?
Nov 27 16:44:14 <Robot101> currenot? :)
Nov 27 16:44:27 <inz> Cosmic, enable r&d mode
Nov 27 16:44:27 <Robot101> s/n't/nt/
Nov 27 16:44:30 <shackan> the password is "rootme", just don't forget to enable R&D mode
Nov 27 16:44:37 <CosmicRay> ah, ok.
Nov 27 16:44:37 * timeless frowns
Nov 27 16:44:43 <timeless> ssh doesn't require r&d mode
Nov 27 16:44:47 * timeless never enables r&d mode
Nov 27 16:44:49 <CosmicRay> so can I enable R&D mode, change the password, then disable it again?
Nov 27 16:44:55 <CosmicRay> timeless: how have you done it then?
Nov 27 16:45:01 <mgedmin> timeless: do you have a n810, and if so, what's the default root password?
Nov 27 16:45:09 <timeless> rootme
Nov 27 16:45:09 <_Monkey> rootme is probably the default pw?
Nov 27 16:45:18 <mgedmin> people keep saying that it doesn't work for them
Nov 27 16:45:31 <CosmicRay> timeless: I just tried it again, and it does not work.  openssh-client here.
Nov 27 16:45:37 <CosmicRay> err, s/client/server/
Nov 27 16:46:00 <zoran> CosmicRay, ssh first to localhost
Nov 27 16:46:01 <trenka> root is disabled in production mode now
Nov 27 16:46:01 <timeless> hrm, indeed
Nov 27 16:46:03 * timeless frowns
Nov 27 16:46:10 <timeless> trenka: why?!
Nov 27 16:46:12 <CosmicRay> zoran: to what user?
Nov 27 16:46:27 <timeless> yeah, it doesn't work
Nov 27 16:46:27 <zoran> root, why not this time
Nov 27 16:46:29 * timeless grumbles
Nov 27 16:46:32 <unique311> timeless you are the developer for microb?
Nov 27 16:46:41 <timeless> not "the", just "one of"
Nov 27 16:46:43 <chx> http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=361766&postcount=5 look at this. I am _totally_ torn.
Nov 27 16:47:02 <unique311> how do i start it from the command line?
Nov 27 16:47:03 <trenka> timeless: why it should be enabled&
Nov 27 16:47:04 <trenka> ?
Nov 27 16:47:15 <bill20r3> yeech
Nov 27 16:47:26 <unique311> this in in os2008, btw
Nov 27 16:47:27 <timeless> trenka: so that people can get work done?
Nov 27 16:47:35 <CosmicRay> zoran: ssh root@localhost, password rootme, still does not work.
Nov 27 16:47:36 <trenka> timeless: why?
Nov 27 16:47:44 <geoffeg> because i bought the device, i own it, it's mine, so i can do whatever i want with it
Nov 27 16:47:47 <pupnik> what is your use-case for PAMP chx?
Nov 27 16:47:59 <timeless> chx: that's about s60, no?
Nov 27 16:48:08 <zoran> CosmicRay, you get pass prompt?
Nov 27 16:48:08 * chx thinks his nick name needs more pimping.
Nov 27 16:48:28 <CosmicRay> zoran: yess
Nov 27 16:48:30 <chx> pupnik: slide 13 on www.slideshare.net/drumm/ maintaining-your-own-branch-of-drupal-core
Nov 27 16:48:34 <chx> drats
Nov 27 16:48:37 <chx> pupnik: slide 13 on www.slideshare.net/drumm/maintaining-your-own-branch-of-drupal-core
Nov 27 16:48:39 <chx> better.
Nov 27 16:48:40 <timeless> trenka: if i have a user toor w/ uid 0 can i log in using that
Nov 27 16:48:45 <timeless> or do i need to enable r&d mode?
Nov 27 16:48:45 <zoran> CosmicRay, it means app is working correctly
Nov 27 16:48:59 <CosmicRay> zoran: blink?  which app?
Nov 27 16:49:00 <pupnik> hmm
Nov 27 16:49:09 <zoran> if the root login was not disabled
Nov 27 16:49:16 <CosmicRay> I already know openssh-server is working because I get the password prompt from another machine
Nov 27 16:49:25 <truls> any chance of programatically (shell or otherwise) opening the filemanager to a certain path?
Nov 27 16:49:32 <trenka> timeless: yes you can
Nov 27 16:49:43 <zoran> CosmicRay, could you go as "user"
Nov 27 16:49:44 <chx> pupnik: I *need* a device that I can pocket and whenever and wherever I have the urge, I can bang out some Drupal patch.
Nov 27 16:49:59 <timeless> trenka: so it's still root only protection, strange
Nov 27 16:50:02 <CosmicRay> btw is there any source for the 42.19 2008 firmware update other than tablets-dev.nokia.com?  It is downloading at 4.8KB/s and crashed after about 50% of the download yesterday
Nov 27 16:50:08 <timeless> ok, so i should just make a very broken package that "fixes" this
Nov 27 16:50:10 * timeless sighs
Nov 27 16:50:20 <timeless> cosmicray: it's just a kernel update
Nov 27 16:50:21 <zoran> CosmicRay, could you reboot?
Nov 27 16:50:23 <chx> pupnik: N810 and E90 are the candidates, at this moment. nothing else is pocketable. All those flasy Sony UX , OQO whatever are bricks.
Nov 27 16:50:25 <CosmicRay> what is the user password?
Nov 27 16:50:25 <pupnik> ah chx - gotcha
Nov 27 16:50:33 <timeless> find someone who has the whole thing and ask them to split the pieces :)
Nov 27 16:50:35 <henrique> whats the problem with maemo repository?
Nov 27 16:50:37 <mgedmin> trenka: is it that the root account is locked, or is it that openssh-server has PermitRootLogin no?
Nov 27 16:50:50 <pupnik> chx - come on over to the maemo world and make cool stuff with us
Nov 27 16:50:53 <CosmicRay> timeless: well I have had some trouble with the device not powering on properly
Nov 27 16:51:01 <timeless> eww
Nov 27 16:51:09 <CosmicRay> timeless: I could press and hold the power button all I like and nothing happens.  20 minutes later it works fine.
Nov 27 16:51:13 <trenka> mgedmin: easy to check :)
Nov 27 16:51:22 <mgedmin> if you have a n810, yes :-)
Nov 27 16:51:26 <timeless> heh
Nov 27 16:51:32 <CosmicRay> i thought if there was some weird power management trouble going on, might not hurt to try it.
Nov 27 16:51:33 * mgedmin should make a backup and flash os2008 on his n800 some time soon
Nov 27 16:51:34 <chx> pupnik: not an effective use of my resources. I am on "wizard" level in Drupal/PHP. It'd be a waste to try to code something else.
Nov 27 16:51:36 <CosmicRay> the update, that is.
Nov 27 16:51:58 <CosmicRay> zoran: you want me to reboot into r&d mode?
Nov 27 16:52:44 <zoran> no, just reboot, if you did something strange on the command prompt
Nov 27 16:52:52 <CosmicRay> I didn't.
Nov 27 16:53:03 <zoran> recently installed openssh?
Nov 27 16:53:04 <pupnik> chx: so do the drupal on N810
Nov 27 16:53:04 <CosmicRay> all I tried was "passwd user", which told me it wasn't allowed
Nov 27 16:53:11 <CosmicRay> err, make that "passwd"
Nov 27 16:53:28 <zoran> hm!
Nov 27 16:53:40 <chx> pupnik: could be. but. isn't the E90 a better choice...
Nov 27 16:53:50 <mgedmin> CosmicRay: looks like you'll need to enable r&d mode then use sudo gainroot before you can set root's or user's passwords
Nov 27 16:54:02 <mgedmin> CosmicRay: or you could try the becomeroot package, if it's still availabl
Nov 27 16:54:03 <chx> pupnik: I just do not know.
Nov 27 16:54:06 <CosmicRay> ok.
Nov 27 16:54:07 <zoran> cosmicRay, better to try user pass user, if you did it from user space
Nov 27 16:54:30 <pupnik> chx i duno - i am a biased advocate of linux and the tablets
Nov 27 16:54:54 <mgedmin> zoran: CosmicRay: you can't set your own password if the account is locked; only root can
Nov 27 16:55:00 <chx> pupnik: I only use Linux since 1993 september
Nov 27 16:55:11 <chx> pupnik: So it's not like I am against it.
Nov 27 16:55:25 <pupnik> :)
Nov 27 16:55:31 <zoran> mgedmin, k, I did it as root on 770
Nov 27 16:56:07 <chx> ok, so N810 owners, how pocketable it is?
Nov 27 16:56:20 <zoran> but the very first thing would be to go to root
Nov 27 16:56:22 <fysa> is it possible to add custom elements to the hildon 'Open file' browser dialog?
Nov 27 16:56:26 <mgedmin> n800 is reasonanbly pocketable; n810 is a bit smaller
Nov 27 16:56:28 <CosmicRay> also, is there any point to adding http://reposiroty.maemo.org/ to my application manager, if I already have the nokia catalogs and the maemo extras enabled?
Nov 27 16:56:36 <fysa> I'd like to add my nfs mount to the list.
Nov 27 16:56:37 <CosmicRay> mgedmin: fits in my khakis pocket just fine
Nov 27 16:56:41 <CosmicRay> even in the carrying case
Nov 27 16:56:47 <chx> sounds promising
Nov 27 16:56:50 * mgedmin uses his shirt pocket
Nov 27 16:56:59 <fysa> little heavy for my shirt pocket
Nov 27 16:57:08 <fysa> looks like I have a single fat tit
Nov 27 16:57:16 <zoran> get 2
Nov 27 16:57:19 <fysa> or droopy tit rather
Nov 27 16:57:20 <chx> what? shirt pocket?
Nov 27 16:57:21 <fysa> haha
Nov 27 16:57:28 <chx> this sings fits into a shirt pocket??
Nov 27 16:57:31 <chx> *thing
Nov 27 16:57:39 <CosmicRay> chx: yes
Nov 27 16:57:48 <chx> mooo!
Nov 27 16:57:48 <chx> :)
Nov 27 16:57:50 <fysa> which case do you use, cosmic?
Nov 27 16:57:51 <CosmicRay> probably without a lot of room to spare, but it would
Nov 27 16:58:02 <CosmicRay> fysa: just the standard fake-leather one that came with it so far
Nov 27 16:58:07 <CosmicRay> fysa: I just got the device yesterday
Nov 27 16:58:10 <CosmicRay> (n810)
Nov 27 16:58:12 <fysa> ah
Nov 27 16:58:29 <zoran> cosmic, make a review
Nov 27 16:58:32 <chx> before biting the $500 bullet I would like to run a round with my employer
Nov 27 16:58:40 <chx> that's why i do not yet have one
Nov 27 16:58:59 <CosmicRay> zoran: already writing one
Nov 27 16:59:19 <CosmicRay> I am so happy this thing runs Linux.  this is what the Zaurus should have been
Nov 27 16:59:56 <chx> My usual q. Any tried a full LAMP stack already?
Nov 27 17:00:01 <chx> *Anyone
Nov 27 17:00:20 <db48x> chx: on an n800/n810?
Nov 27 17:00:25 * chx nods
Nov 27 17:00:32 <db48x> why, if I may ask?
Nov 27 17:00:38 <chx> see above
Nov 27 17:00:46 <chx> I am a Drupal coder, through and through
Nov 27 17:00:47 <db48x> a web server on an n800 isn't going to do much
Nov 27 17:00:49 <rafl> any idea what to change when I still have wifi connection problems after trying lots of different values between 0 and 5000 for /system/osso/connectivity/IPA/wlan_sleep_timeout?
Nov 27 17:00:57 <chx> I do not need it to do much.
Nov 27 17:01:08 <zoran> chx, you already have parts of it on device
Nov 27 17:01:11 <chx> I won't run the next google off my tablet :P
Nov 27 17:01:18 <chx> zoran: mysql-server ?
Nov 27 17:01:30 <zoran> on one plain text file
Nov 27 17:01:38 <zoran> sqlite
Nov 27 17:01:38 <_Monkey> sqlite is not interesting because of sql, but because it has figured out transactions, etc.  Wouldn't want to reimplement all of that just to avoid sql. :)
Nov 27 17:01:59 <zoran> python/perl
Nov 27 17:02:09 <db48x> that said, there's no reason why apache, mysql and perl would fail to work on the n800/n810
Nov 27 17:02:20 <zoran> I saw little http daemon in catalog
Nov 27 17:02:23 <db48x> python is already available, if that's your poison
Nov 27 17:02:25 <philn> hi there
Nov 27 17:02:36 <procto> I want lighttpd
Nov 27 17:02:49 <procto> for fileserving
Nov 27 17:03:01 <zoran> db48x, python makes me life easier on 770
Nov 27 17:03:12 <db48x> yea, I bet
Nov 27 17:03:15 <db48x> anything is better than C
Nov 27 17:03:19 <db48x> or even C++
Nov 27 17:03:45 <chx> I know sqlite is available
Nov 27 17:03:51 <chx> but mysql-server is in ARM Debian
Nov 27 17:04:08 <chx> so compilation  is at least possible
Nov 27 17:04:11 <zoran> could be overkill
Nov 27 17:04:24 <chx> it is overkill , so what?
Nov 27 17:04:42 <db48x> you'll probably have to compile apache your self as well
Nov 27 17:04:52 <db48x> but there are no signifigant hurdles, I imagine
Nov 27 17:04:53 <zoran> 770 cannot handle that kind of fun
Nov 27 17:05:12 <db48x> other than the fact that you're going to be running it on a 400Mhz arm cpu
Nov 27 17:05:23 <zoran> not so bad
Nov 27 17:05:25 <chx> I am fine whatever webserver if it runs php.
Nov 27 17:05:41 <chx> oh come on they run mysql-server on an nslu2
Nov 27 17:05:48 <chx> i can't believe it'll be worse :P
Nov 27 17:05:52 <truls> I am fine whatever webserver as long as php is disabled.
Nov 27 17:06:04 <zoran> that linksys is known to be slow
Nov 27 17:06:06 <chx> lol!
Nov 27 17:06:14 * truls dreams of the day he can retire the php-enabled webserver at his work and feel safe again.
Nov 27 17:06:34 <chx> so who is into getting http://packages.debian.org/etch/mysql-server-5.0/arm/download into an N810 :)
Nov 27 17:06:42 <db48x> truls: nuke it from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
Nov 27 17:06:44 <zoran> some people sursed php for good
Nov 27 17:06:49 <zoran> *cursed
Nov 27 17:07:11 <truls> db48x: very true
Nov 27 17:10:31 <pupnik> k! s! ... at work!
Nov 27 17:24:47 <KirG0FF> Hi. I've just re-flashed my N800 with the OS2008. Looks great. However, I found that most of the applications i used with the OS2007 haven't been ported to the OS2008 yet. What's the major problem porting an app to OS2008? Is it just about recompiling and the app for the new OS, or does it imply actual rewriting some parts of the code?
Nov 27 17:25:22 <fysa> eh.  streaming from nfs causes too much of a performance hit .. (13%)
Nov 27 17:25:37 <geoffeg> KirG0FF: Mostly recompiling the app for the new versions of the libs.. Some apps may require slight rewriting
Nov 27 17:26:21 <KirG0FF> Shall I switch to the new SDK along with the OS update in order to build apps for OS2008?
Nov 27 17:26:34 <geoffeg> KirG0FF: I believe so.
Nov 27 17:27:27 <trenka> KirG0FF: such thing clever guys check before flashing
Nov 27 17:27:57 <KirG0FF> I just couldn't wait any longer :)
Nov 27 17:27:59 <geoffeg> trenka: Most people have come to expect that OS upgrades/updates won't break their existing apps. :)
Nov 27 17:29:21 <KirG0FF> I knew I could expect all of my apps to be ported to the new OS. I think I'll recompile the apps I need myself before they appear in the repository.
Nov 27 17:29:30 <mgedmin> geoffeg: then they're not users of nokia internet tablets
Nov 27 17:30:01 <geoffeg> mgedmin: Apparently :)
Nov 27 17:30:14 <timeless> geoffeg: people are silly
Nov 27 17:30:25 <geoffeg> timeless: humans.. so stupid! :)
Nov 27 17:30:43 <mgedmin> unreasonable expectations all the time :-)
Nov 27 17:31:10 * mgedmin predicts that the situation will improve
Nov 27 17:31:18 <geoffeg> Where would this world be without us?... Hmm.. probably not as polluted, etc :)
Nov 27 17:31:44 <timeless> geoffeg: much better
Nov 27 17:32:39 <pupnik> help free software spread to mobile devices.  that's a good deed for the world.
Nov 27 17:32:59 <pupnik> it is something you can do
Nov 27 17:36:13 <db48x> no, the world would be a lot worse without us
Nov 27 17:36:17 <db48x> it would be so boring
Nov 27 17:36:21 <timeless> heh
Nov 27 17:36:23 <timeless> how so?
Nov 27 17:36:29 <timeless> you'd have lions and tigers and bears oh my
Nov 27 17:36:32 <timeless> chasing everything
Nov 27 17:36:41 <timeless> some hyenas and leopards and ...
Nov 27 17:36:42 <db48x> only the interactions of sentient beings can have any real meaning
Nov 27 17:36:46 <timeless> plenty of excitement
Nov 27 17:36:57 <db48x> lions and tigers and bears don't compose sonets
Nov 27 17:37:10 <timeless> monkeys might
Nov 27 17:37:13 <unique311> lol
Nov 27 17:37:14 <db48x> or woo a girl by moonlight
Nov 27 17:37:15 <geoffeg> awesome, my replacement 8GB SD card will be here tomorrow.. Kingston rocks
Nov 27 17:37:20 <timeless> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem
Nov 27 17:37:35 <unique311> do ya'll really think the world would be much better without us here?
Nov 27 17:37:36 <timeless> The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a particular chosen text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare.
Nov 27 17:37:37 <db48x> that has a neccessary precondition that would never be met
Nov 27 17:37:48 <timeless> unique311: yes
Nov 27 17:37:54 <unique311> wow
Nov 27 17:37:54 <db48x> since obviously there will never be an infinite number of monkeys
Nov 27 17:38:13 <db48x> much easier to simply have a few humans around to do the interesting things instead
Nov 27 17:38:40 <unique311> timeless, please tell me you not working on a way to make this a reality.
Nov 27 17:38:59 <alterego> Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that the probility of a very unlikely event is going to happen. It probably wont.
Nov 27 17:39:09 <timeless> no, too busy poisoning the world w/ hardware
Nov 27 17:39:10 <doc|work> what about if an infinite number of monkeys evolved?
Nov 27 17:39:14 <alterego> ~propability ..
Nov 27 17:39:34 * doc|work hands alterego another b
Nov 27 17:39:47 <alterego> There are a lot of factors against a monkey writing anything, let alone any shakespear ;)
Nov 27 17:39:58 <db48x> alterego: indeed
Nov 27 17:40:10 <db48x> (unless you count humans as monkeys, which would be odd)
Nov 27 17:40:23 <db48x> odd but not unheard of
Nov 27 17:40:24 <bill20r3> I count a few of them.
Nov 27 17:40:29 <alterego> You'd need a parallel dimension like "The Planet of the Apes" or something.
Nov 27 17:40:38 <pupnik> wb lardman
Nov 27 17:40:52 <lardman> hi pupnik
Nov 27 17:41:16 <alterego> Right, that's enough work for me. Not to move on to other things.
Nov 27 17:41:40 <alterego> Namely OS2008 theming :)
Nov 27 17:42:12 <killfill> hey..
Nov 27 17:42:23 <killfill> just updated my n800 to os2008.. :)
Nov 27 17:42:31 <alterego> killfill, like it?
Nov 27 17:43:05 * lardman crosses fingers that poky image will get further this time
Nov 27 17:43:30 <killfill> its feels very good.. :=
Nov 27 17:43:31 <killfill> )
Nov 27 17:44:29 <alterego> lardman, poky?
Nov 27 17:44:37 <alterego> lardman, how's PowerVR?
Nov 27 17:44:53 <lardman> that's what I want the poky image for, matching oabi & gcc versions
Nov 27 17:44:55 <oil> hmm. the os2008 seems to loose my internal sd-card. only boot helps to find it back
Nov 27 17:44:59 <Tak> Even better, there exists some algorithm that translates any work created by a finite number of monkeys into a work that has meaning to humans (e.g. The Complete Works of Shakespeare)
Nov 27 17:45:20 <LinuxApe> Is there an n800 specific channel?
Nov 27 17:45:30 <pupnik> no
Nov 27 17:45:41 <Tak> This is the primate literature channel
Nov 27 17:45:43 <pupnik> well there is #n800
Nov 27 17:45:53 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 17:46:02 <LinuxApe> okay -- when will os2008 be available for download by n800 users?
Nov 27 17:46:16 <db48x> heh, it already is, after a fashion
Nov 27 17:46:18 <bill20r3> a beta version is now.
Nov 27 17:46:19 <alterego> Yeah, we should move to #N8X0 and leave those old folks to it.
Nov 27 17:46:20 * Tak indicates the topic
Nov 27 17:46:39 * Tak sees the future and joins #N2000
Nov 27 17:47:12 * alterego joins #NX810
Nov 27 17:47:28 <alterego> Very star trek.
Nov 27 17:47:33 * alterego gets back to his theming.
Nov 27 17:47:49 <unique311> lol
Nov 27 17:48:18 <alterego> And no .. I'm not going to do a damn "LARS" theme :P
Nov 27 17:48:45 <Tak> The N2000 will be a time-traveling IT made of liquid metal.  Still with no hardware 3d accel.
Nov 27 17:48:53 <Tak> there's already an LCARS theme
Nov 27 17:49:01 <db48x> Tak: haha
Nov 27 17:49:23 <Tak> I wish the doom3 theme project on garage would do a release already
Nov 27 17:50:18 <alterego> Tak, for OS2008? :P
Nov 27 17:50:29 <Tak> for any OS
Nov 27 17:50:30 <alterego> Besides, I've seen it. It's not that great ^_^
Nov 27 17:50:48 <LinuxApe> One more question - how stable is the beta os2008?
Nov 27 17:51:10 <alterego> LinuxApe, it's perfectly stable. I've not had a single problem with it.
Nov 27 17:51:17 <killfill> there is something with the application manager.. its so slow to download things..
Nov 27 17:51:33 <killfill> i guess it becouse hight traffic mameo is getting?..
Nov 27 17:51:40 <kulve> downloads.maemo.org login broken *again*?
Nov 27 17:51:45 <alterego> killfill, that was just yesterday after everyone getting the new image. It was maemo.org being slow not the OS
Nov 27 17:52:02 <alterego> killfill, exactly. Nothing to do with the application manager.
Nov 27 17:52:05 <kulve> alterego: it's still slow
Nov 27 17:52:13 <alterego> It's always slow.
Nov 27 17:52:20 <alterego> But last night it was barely working :P
Nov 27 17:52:20 <killfill> yup.. :(
Nov 27 17:52:23 <kulve> well, now it's *slow*
Nov 27 17:52:50 <killfill> want to install ukmp.. python an all that stuf.. big fishes.. :P
Nov 27 17:53:13 <timeless> ok, help
Nov 27 17:53:13 <killfill> i had to actually download the image from bitorrent..:P
Nov 27 17:53:17 <timeless> i need people who speak languages
Nov 27 17:53:20 <db48x> what's different between the beta os2008 for the n800 and the os2008 for the n810?
Nov 27 17:53:25 <db48x> timeless: I speak a language!
Nov 27 17:53:26 <lardman> Any Nokians about who can give us a clue about N800 hardware revisions?: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12303
Nov 27 17:53:44 <unique311> i also speak languages
Nov 27 17:53:58 <timeless> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg&hl=en
Nov 27 17:54:15 <timeless> lardman: there's an internal table that documented a couple of those
Nov 27 17:54:21 <killfill> i hate gcompris.. why does it has so many packages.. ?
Nov 27 17:54:45 <lardman> timeless: 1301 and 1302 have been seen in the wild, but I was just wondering what the later numbers are
Nov 27 17:56:21 <alterego> More bugs ..
Nov 27 17:56:34 <timeless> lardman: help me find translations for this string and i'll look into it
Nov 27 17:56:38 <lardman> timeless: that google spreadsheet doesn't work for me
Nov 27 17:57:10 <timeless> the sad thing is that i was 15/16 done
Nov 27 17:57:17 <timeless> but i made the mistake of trying to save my work
Nov 27 17:57:20 <timeless> lardman: eh?
Nov 27 17:57:25 <timeless> how not?
Nov 27 17:57:32 <lardman> I can't load that page for some reason
Nov 27 17:58:58 <lardman> might just be my ancient version of Firfox actually....
Nov 27 17:59:30 <kulve> that requires login too..
Nov 27 17:59:48 * lardman has been told to go and buy wine, back in a bit
Nov 27 17:59:50 <timeless> db48x: any idea how to promote viewers to editors?
Nov 27 18:00:15 <db48x> nope
Nov 27 18:00:21 <db48x> first time I've ever used google docs, actually
Nov 27 18:00:31 <db48x> pretty darn nifty though
Nov 27 18:00:35 <timeless> what's your account?
Nov 27 18:00:39 <db48x> db48x@yahoo.com
Nov 27 18:00:56 <doc|work> I'm really liking os2008, much faster, bootup and use, and mail actually works for me
Nov 27 18:01:08 <db48x> I guess you figured it out :)
Nov 27 18:01:28 <Guy810> Ello there doesn't seem to be any password manager app for maemo or am i missing it thx
Nov 27 18:05:16 <timeless> ok, help, anyone here speak a language other than english?
Nov 27 18:05:28 <derf> Does Japanese count?
Nov 27 18:05:32 <killfill> spanish
Nov 27 18:05:35 <doc|work> what language do you want?
Nov 27 18:05:44 <timeless> spanish counts
Nov 27 18:06:00 <timeless> any langauge supported by os 2007/2008
Nov 27 18:06:17 <E78C8EE4BABA> does that include the CJK project?
Nov 27 18:06:28 <timeless> you'll need to give me a google docs account so i can make you an editor
Nov 27 18:06:30 <E78C8EE4BABA> nihongo/zhongwen
Nov 27 18:06:35 <timeless> (you can also give it to db48x while i'm sleeping)
Nov 27 18:06:37 <timeless> no
Nov 27 18:06:41 <Tak> can I fix the english ones?
Nov 27 18:06:51 <timeless> tak: please don't
Nov 27 18:07:05 <timeless> tak: if you object to the english ones, stick a comment in the comment field
Nov 27 18:07:22 <db48x> he needs da, es-ES, es-MX, fi, fr, fr-CA, it, nl, no-NO, pt-BR, pt-PT, ru and se-SV
Nov 27 18:07:26 <Tak> comment field?  is that column d?
Nov 27 18:07:34 <timeless> no, click "Discuss"
Nov 27 18:08:08 <timeless> hi keesj :(
Nov 27 18:08:38 <timeless> oh, you're adding the ,?
Nov 27 18:11:04 <db48x> the google docs chat log desperately needs a scrollbar
Nov 27 18:12:10 <timeless> yes
Nov 27 18:12:14 <timeless> i cna't find the input field
Nov 27 18:13:00 <timeless> ok
Nov 27 18:13:11 <timeless> find the td parent of div imMsgsd
Nov 27 18:13:16 <timeless> change its style to height: 400px
Nov 27 18:13:17 <_Monkey> timeless: that doesn't look right
Nov 27 18:13:21 <timeless> then you get a scrollbar
Nov 27 18:13:28 <timeless> and can continue chatting
Nov 27 18:14:41 <doc|work> hmmm, is there anyway to set claws to flash the cursor key the same way the standard mail app does, then disable the standard mail app?
Nov 27 18:14:56 <db48x> timeless: heh
Nov 27 18:15:06 <db48x> timeless: I've just been tabbing down to the input box
Nov 27 18:19:19 <pupnik> if anyone is bored, do some docu for oprofile usage and examples kthxbai
Nov 27 18:21:21 <fysa> expect spam, db48x
Nov 27 18:21:30 <fysa> I believe this channel is logged and indexed by google
Nov 27 18:21:41 <timeless> it is
Nov 27 18:22:27 <db48x> I get a lot of spam as it is, I won't notice any more
Nov 27 18:22:56 <doc|work> you know what would be handy, if anyone was bored enough. Profiles based on wifi connection. For example, at work there's the n800 uses a specific wifi connection and there's no need to have it lock the screen, while when I'm on the bus without a wifi connection it would be nice if it would lock the screen after a minute.
Nov 27 18:23:22 * mgedmin would prefer ubuntu packages of the various maemo sdk versions
Nov 27 18:23:22 <doc|work> s/work there's/work
Nov 27 18:26:20 <kaltsi> pupnik: http://maemo.org/development/tools/doc/oprofile ?
Nov 27 18:27:06 * alterego wonders who develops the TN
Nov 27 18:27:38 <fysa> much better.
Nov 27 18:27:52 <alterego> doc|home, I don't see the benifit in that,
Nov 27 18:28:02 <fysa> volume=10.1:1, cache=4096, framedrop in /home/user/.mplayer/config helps a good deal.
Nov 27 18:29:44 <alterego> The map server is still slow as hell >:(
Nov 27 18:32:10 <timeless> help?
Nov 27 18:32:17 <alterego> Holap
Nov 27 18:32:49 <timeless> da es-ES fr fr-CA it no-NO pt-BR pt-PT ru
Nov 27 18:32:55 <timeless> need translations for htose
Nov 27 18:33:10 <Tak> I'll do the es-ES if cbiesinger isn't
Nov 27 18:34:02 * Tak can't tell
Nov 27 18:34:30 <timeless> biesi's german
Nov 27 18:34:38 <alterego> I'm useless at any other language :)
Nov 27 18:35:14 <_berto_> what do you need to translate?
Nov 27 18:35:27 <timeless> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg&hl=en#
Nov 27 18:35:34 <timeless> basically one sentence
Nov 27 18:37:17 <_berto_> column C?
Nov 27 18:37:51 <db48x> _berto_: yes
Nov 27 18:38:53 <lardman> Where is the qemu installed that scratchbox uses?
Nov 27 18:39:12 <_berto_> for pt-PT you can use the same as pt-BR
Nov 27 18:39:19 <lardman> ah, it's in one of the devkits, good good
Nov 27 18:39:29 <_berto_> maybe change 'esperando' for 'a esperar'
Nov 27 18:39:41 <_berto_> which is more common in Portugal
Nov 27 18:40:25 <db48x> _berto_: go ahead and make that change :)
Nov 27 18:40:40 <timeless> db48x: they need invites, which is painful
Nov 27 18:40:48 * timeless doens't hav ea way to auto auth people
Nov 27 18:40:49 <milhouse> _monkey translate to portuguese what do you need translated?
Nov 27 18:40:50 <_Monkey> milhouse: que voc� necessita traduzido?
Nov 27 18:40:57 <milhouse> Marks out of 10 for _Monkey? :)
Nov 27 18:40:57 <db48x> ah, I guess timeless already did it
Nov 27 18:41:15 <_berto_> it's already translated for portuguese :)
Nov 27 18:41:25 <_berto_> já está feito ;)
Nov 27 18:41:37 <timeless> ok, that leaves da fr fr-CA it no-NO ru se-SV
Nov 27 18:41:50 <milhouse> _monkey translate from portuguese j� est� feito
Nov 27 18:41:51 <_Monkey> milhouse: j� est� made
Nov 27 18:41:55 <milhouse> hmmm
Nov 27 18:41:59 <_berto_> it's already done
Nov 27 18:42:07 <timeless> sorry, i really don't trust bots
Nov 27 18:42:07 <fysa> oddly, -vo xv is faster than -vo n770 on OS2008 for me.
Nov 27 18:42:17 <lardman> milhouse: I'm getting funny symbols in that, perhaps _Monkey  is too
Nov 27 18:42:26 <fysa> perhaps not faster, but more likeable.
Nov 27 18:42:27 * timeless gets ? marks :)
Nov 27 18:42:29 <_berto_> it's probably utf-8
Nov 27 18:42:38 <timeless> it probably *was* utf-8 :)
Nov 27 18:42:48 <sp3000> at some point
Nov 27 18:42:52 <_berto_> yes :D
Nov 27 18:43:01 <milhouse> lardman yeah the accents threw him a bit :)
Nov 27 18:43:08 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 18:43:10 <timeless> btw, who speaks spanish here?
Nov 27 18:43:15 <milhouse> _monkey :)
Nov 27 18:43:16 <_Monkey> milhouse: excuse me?
Nov 27 18:43:22 <timeless> the es-ES original text was broken
Nov 27 18:43:23 <milhouse> shut up _monkey
Nov 27 18:43:27 <timeless> we noticed that the first time around
Nov 27 18:43:38 <killfill> whats the default password for root?
Nov 27 18:43:41 <milhouse> rootme
Nov 27 18:43:42 <_Monkey> rootme is the default pw?
Nov 27 18:43:42 <killfill> (for sshing)
Nov 27 18:43:45 <derf> _Monkey: translate from Portuguese já está feito
Nov 27 18:43:46 <_Monkey> derf: jáestámade
Nov 27 18:43:53 <derf> Well, that didn't work, either.
Nov 27 18:43:55 <timeless> killfill: it seems in 2008 you might need to enable r&d mode first
Nov 27 18:43:59 <killfill> Permission denied, please try again.
Nov 27 18:44:03 <timeless> derf: looks better :)
Nov 27 18:44:05 <killfill> r&d mode
Nov 27 18:44:06 <killfill> hm...
Nov 27 18:44:20 <derf> It has nice accents in it, but it's not actually, you know, a translation.
Nov 27 18:44:27 <killfill> i never did that before.. any tips? (i.e. url)
Nov 27 18:44:33 <timeless> google :(
Nov 27 18:44:34 <derf> _Monkey probably isn't running UTF-8, either.
Nov 27 18:44:35 <_Monkey> derf: what?
Nov 27 18:44:46 <derf> Like a fool.
Nov 27 18:44:57 <sp3000> _Monkey: translate from Portuguese ja esta feito
Nov 27 18:44:59 <_Monkey> sp3000: ja this fact
Nov 27 18:45:09 <_berto_> not, 'esta' is different from 'está'
Nov 27 18:45:21 * sp3000 expected it to fuzz around the accents, but, meh
Nov 27 18:45:23 <timeless> did i mention i don't trust monkey? :)
Nov 27 18:45:24 <_berto_> esta => this   , está => (he/she/it) is
Nov 27 18:45:44 <sp3000> yeah, that would be a bit more challenging :)
Nov 27 18:45:47 <_berto_> :)
Nov 27 18:46:30 <_berto_> i think that 'deixado de responder' sounds better than 'parado de responder'
Nov 27 18:46:42 <db48x> hmm
Nov 27 18:46:44 <_berto_> but both are probably ok
Nov 27 18:46:51 <db48x> I wonder how literate my cousin's russian is
Nov 27 18:47:09 <timeless> db48x: i have a bunch of russian speakers here, i can grab them again tomorrow morning worst case
Nov 27 18:47:21 <timeless> (including the one who translated it earlier this evening)
Nov 27 18:47:38 <timeless> the others, especially danish/norwegian are more pressing
Nov 27 18:47:43 <timeless> danish i never got
Nov 27 18:48:20 <db48x> hmm. one of my aunts is Danish
Nov 27 18:48:29 <_berto_> also, in es-ES I like 'Pulse OK' better than 'Oprima OK'
Nov 27 18:48:32 <penguinbait> el pollo loco
Nov 27 18:48:35 <_berto_> Oprima sounds a bit more south-american
Nov 27 18:49:04 <timeless> _berto_ what's your google docs address?
Nov 27 18:49:14 <_berto_> it's also 'continuar' and not 'continúar' in both es-ES and es-MX
Nov 27 18:49:16 * timeless would rather let _berto_ make these changes
Nov 27 18:49:21 <_berto_> there's no more changes
Nov 27 18:49:28 <_berto_> *there're
Nov 27 18:49:30 <_berto_> :)
Nov 27 18:49:43 <_berto_> i hadn't reviewed es-ES
Nov 27 18:49:46 * timeless is confused
Nov 27 18:50:45 <timeless> yeah pulse was used by the spaniard earlier
Nov 27 18:50:59 <timeless> (and then intentionally not used for mx when we searched for an alternate)
Nov 27 18:51:00 <_berto_> i think you changed the wrong one
Nov 27 18:51:01 <db48x> I made the s/continúar/continuar/ change
Nov 27 18:51:08 <_berto_> pulse is for es, oprima for mx
Nov 27 18:51:16 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 18:51:26 <timeless> i think presione is what we picked
Nov 27 18:51:35 <_berto_> yeah, presione is right too
Nov 27 18:51:48 <_berto_> it's probably the literal translation for press
Nov 27 18:52:07 <_berto_> both pulse and presione are right, oprima is right too but it's less usual in spain
Nov 27 18:52:10 <timeless> oprima was used in the help only (oddly)
Nov 27 18:52:16 <timeless> (for mx)
Nov 27 18:56:28 <CosmicRay> is there a way to look at imap folders other than inbox in the built-in os2008 email program?
Nov 27 18:56:35 <_berto_> CosmicRay: no
Nov 27 18:56:59 <derf> So in other words, it's totally useless.
Nov 27 18:57:15 <db48x> yea, I was rather annoyed by that
Nov 27 18:57:19 <CosmicRay> sigh.
Nov 27 18:57:25 <CosmicRay> is claws really the only other way to go?
Nov 27 18:57:33 <timeless> you want to use the replacement (modest)
Nov 27 18:57:41 <timeless> the one in 2008 is there because the replacement missed the cut
Nov 27 18:57:46 <timeless> just like opera was in 2007
Nov 27 18:57:55 <_berto_> http://modest.garage.maemo.org/
Nov 27 18:57:56 * CosmicRay searches for modest
Nov 27 18:58:01 <CosmicRay> ah, thanks.
Nov 27 18:58:06 <_berto_> but it's still in beta stage
Nov 27 18:58:19 <timeless> yeah well, there's that penalty
Nov 27 18:58:24 <derf> An inbox with 17k messages. This looks promising already.
Nov 27 18:58:27 <timeless> alternatively, might i suggest gmail?
Nov 27 18:58:46 <CosmicRay> timeless: you mean I should use its web interface?
Nov 27 18:58:50 <_berto_> http://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2007/11/23/sometimes-i-dont-need-a-lot-of-words
Nov 27 18:58:52 <timeless> yes
Nov 27 18:58:53 <derf> I have my own webmail, which is what I actually use.
Nov 27 18:59:02 <derf> But webmail is clunky.
Nov 27 18:59:03 <CosmicRay> timeless: in that case, no ;-)
Nov 27 18:59:05 <derf> And slow.
Nov 27 18:59:06 <fysa> how is modest copared to claws?
Nov 27 18:59:06 <_berto_> instructions on how to build modest
Nov 27 18:59:12 <fysa> .. compared
Nov 27 18:59:13 <pvanhoof> _berto_, advertising our work, you are? :)
Nov 27 18:59:21 <CosmicRay> i hope there's a deb of modest somewhere
Nov 27 18:59:28 <pvanhoof> _berto_, I just committed a branch about the bodystructure stuff
Nov 27 18:59:35 <_berto_> pvanhoof: I'm advertising your blog man :)
Nov 27 18:59:50 <pvanhoof> yes, but that one is about our work
Nov 27 19:00:09 <pvanhoof> As djcb said, soon we'll all be famous :)
Nov 27 19:00:31 <CosmicRay> pvanhoof: I see your name plastered about in connection with tinymail
Nov 27 19:00:47 <CosmicRay> this sounds interesting.  I have been looking for a generic mail framework that sucks less than c-client for ages
Nov 27 19:00:58 <CosmicRay> and I see you support both maildir and imap.
Nov 27 19:01:24 <pvanhoof> CosmicRay, c-client is not bad .. depends on what you are looking for
Nov 27 19:01:41 <CosmicRay> pvanhoof: no maildir support rules it out for many of my projects
Nov 27 19:01:48 <pvanhoof> tinymail is more of a framework that aims to get you in gear quickly, and defines the design and development style a bit more
Nov 27 19:02:17 <CosmicRay> can it be used without the UI layer?
Nov 27 19:02:21 <pvanhoof> c-client is more like etan: all the functions you need, but not really glued together.
Nov 27 19:02:35 <CosmicRay> plus c-client is UW ware, which makes me nervous
Nov 27 19:02:48 <pvanhoof> yes, tinymail can be used without even linking with gtk+
Nov 27 19:02:54 <CosmicRay> nice.
Nov 27 19:05:06 <CosmicRay> modest does look like it will be nice.
Nov 27 19:05:41 <Sho_> Oh, I thought Modest was part of ITOS2008.
Nov 27 19:07:04 <timeless> it missed :(
Nov 27 19:07:14 <CosmicRay> I'm a bit confused about the storage details on the memory panel in os2008.  The "device" appears to be a filesystem (flash, I'd hope), but yet so is internal memory card...  why are these separate?  also, internal memory card seems to be consumed almost entirely by maps.  is that normal?
Nov 27 19:07:33 <timeless> cosmicray: yes it's seperate
Nov 27 19:07:40 <timeless> and it depends on your device
Nov 27 19:07:42 <timeless> maps can be 1.5g
Nov 27 19:07:50 <timeless> which will easily consume most of a 2gb fat32 fs
Nov 27 19:07:54 <CosmicRay> but both are flash-based?
Nov 27 19:08:06 <timeless> impl detail
Nov 27 19:08:12 <timeless> the root fs is jffs2 and flash
Nov 27 19:08:12 <CosmicRay> (that is, not RAM)
Nov 27 19:08:19 <timeless> yes not ram
Nov 27 19:08:29 <CosmicRay> ok.  so this box actually tells me nothing about RAM.
Nov 27 19:08:33 <timeless> the other one is fat32 and essentially equivalent to a 2gb sd card
Nov 27 19:08:43 <CosmicRay> I got an error from the browser the other day saying that it couldn't open a link because I had too many apps running
Nov 27 19:08:47 <CosmicRay> it was the only one running
Nov 27 19:08:50 <db48x> timeless: what's wrong with mozilla's translations for da, fr, it and ru?
Nov 27 19:08:58 <derf> Is there a particular reason you'd intentionally use fat32?
Nov 27 19:09:15 <timeless> db48x: what's mozilla's text ay?
Nov 27 19:09:18 <timeless> (en)
Nov 27 19:09:26 <derf> At least on something that's not removable, and thus never going to be stuck into a Windows box.
Nov 27 19:09:29 <timeless> afaiu we diverged from the mozilla text
Nov 27 19:09:44 <mgedmin> fat32 for a non-removable flash drive on a linux device? weird
Nov 27 19:09:48 <db48x> oh, right
Nov 27 19:09:56 <timeless>   39 KillScriptMessage=A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. You can stop the script now, or you can continue to see if the script will complete.
Nov 27 19:10:00 <db48x> nevermind then, I was forgetting that part
Nov 27 19:10:08 <CosmicRay> mgedmin: that does sound weird.  jffs2 is more flash-friendly
Nov 27 19:10:16 <timeless> mgedmin: *shrug*
Nov 27 19:10:18 <timeless> oh
Nov 27 19:10:21 <timeless> right, so here's the deal
Nov 27 19:10:29 <timeless> when you plug your n810 into a windows pc
Nov 27 19:10:31 <timeless> w/ usb
Nov 27 19:10:43 <timeless> the "cards" become fat32 partitions
Nov 27 19:10:47 <mgedmin> CosmicRay: jffs2 is for raw flash that doesn't do the wear leveling for you
Nov 27 19:10:51 <timeless> and the device goes into some standard raw fisk mode
Nov 27 19:11:01 <derf> Ah, that at least makes some sense.
Nov 27 19:11:05 <mgedmin> hm, that might be a reason -- I suspect the flash firmware that does wear-leveling is optimized for fat
Nov 27 19:11:07 <timeless> whatever it's called, i am currently blanking
Nov 27 19:11:27 * mgedmin feels stupid now, after reading timeless's explanation
Nov 27 19:11:33 <mgedmin> so obvious...
Nov 27 19:12:02 <sp3000> the fi is kind of "is taken and doesn't answer calls"
Nov 27 19:12:05 <sp3000> but, meh
Nov 27 19:12:35 <timeless> sp3000?
Nov 27 19:12:40 <timeless> youhave edits, change things
Nov 27 19:13:29 <sp3000> but it's easier to complain than to come up with something reasonable :(
Nov 27 19:13:57 <db48x> the page is taken?
Nov 27 19:14:03 <db48x> like, it's already engaged to someone?
Nov 27 19:15:02 <sp3000> reserved, etc.
Nov 27 19:15:29 <db48x> same thing
Nov 27 19:15:39 * timeless doesn't understand
Nov 27 19:15:50 <timeless> as in docs.google won't let you fix it?
Nov 27 19:17:19 <sp3000> no, docs is fine
Nov 27 19:17:40 <db48x> timeless: no, he means the finnish translation is a bit oblique
Nov 27 19:17:51 <db48x> 'a script on this page is reserved, and isn't answering your calls'
Nov 27 19:18:08 <timeless> heh
Nov 27 19:18:41 <sp3000> it's a bit like saying a toilet is busy
Nov 27 19:18:54 <db48x> sounds better if you say it's engaged though
Nov 27 19:18:56 <timeless> heh
Nov 27 19:18:56 <Tak> My toilet is always busy.
Nov 27 19:19:29 <timeless> ok, so... um.. norwegian?
Nov 27 19:19:30 <Tak> so...are we happy with the spanish?
Nov 27 19:19:33 <timeless> i think i have a lead for danish
Nov 27 19:19:42 <timeless> tak: dunno, i got confused w/ all the advice for it
Nov 27 19:20:05 <sp3000> afaiui busy = varattu as classic phone beepery goes though
Nov 27 19:20:33 <sp3000> but bysy = reserved are rather equivalent that case
Nov 27 19:20:43 <sp3000> s/that/in that/
Nov 27 19:20:43 <infobot> sp3000 meant: but bysy = reserved are rather equivalent in that case
Nov 27 19:20:53 <db48x> huh
Nov 27 19:20:58 <timeless> tak: i think that for es-ES we should change parado to deixado
Nov 27 19:21:04 <db48x> I wonder if I even have the right phone number
Nov 27 19:21:05 <timeless> world: does that sound reasonable?
Nov 27 19:21:23 <_berto_> deixado ?
Nov 27 19:21:24 <sp3000> also, sql is being confusing again :(
Nov 27 19:21:27 <_berto_> deixado is pt
Nov 27 19:21:30 <_berto_> not es
Nov 27 19:21:31 <timeless> oh
Nov 27 19:21:34 <timeless> oops
Nov 27 19:21:36 <timeless> gah
Nov 27 19:21:45 <timeless> too many latins
Nov 27 19:21:47 <_berto_> :)
Nov 27 19:21:53 <_berto_> the spanish translations are right
Nov 27 19:21:56 <timeless> ok, was that for both?
Nov 27 19:21:58 <_berto_> if no one changed them recently
Nov 27 19:22:15 * timeless wonders if google docs has a way to show age of cells
Nov 27 19:22:28 <timeless> ok, so do you want to change to deixado for both pts?
Nov 27 19:22:35 <timeless> and what was your docs acconut?
Nov 27 19:23:06 <_berto_> the translations are ok as they are now
Nov 27 19:23:58 <_berto_> you could change 'parado' -> 'deixado' in pt, but 'parado' is OK too
Nov 27 19:24:16 <Tak> There is no 'parado' in either es
Nov 27 19:24:29 <_berto_> exactly, es- translations are OK
Nov 27 19:24:36 <timeless> /microb-l10n-0.0.10/l10n/pt-PT/mail/chrome/messenger/filter.properties,
Nov 27 19:24:37 <timeless>     * line 45 -- filterAction13=deixado no servidor POP3
Nov 27 19:24:42 * Tak close tab
Nov 27 19:25:14 <_berto_> i personally like more 'deixado de responder' for pt, but 'parado' is ok
Nov 27 19:25:20 <svu> what is the default root password for openssh server on os2008?
Nov 27 19:25:42 <timeless> deixado doesn't seem to be used
Nov 27 19:25:50 <timeless> svu: seems that you need to enable r&d mode
Nov 27 19:26:18 <svu> timeless, in os2007 I was able to use root/rootme password?
Nov 27 19:26:27 <svu> why doesnt it work in os2008?
Nov 27 19:26:28 <_berto_> doesn't seem to be used where?
Nov 27 19:26:40 <inz> svu, and you still can, you just need to have the device in r&d mode
Nov 27 19:26:44 <timeless> in the platform's translations
Nov 27 19:26:49 <Guy810> Does the 810 have usb host port it seems not
Nov 27 19:26:50 <kulve> inz: or to use ssh-keys
Nov 27 19:26:53 <timeless> i have a source xref for the platform
Nov 27 19:26:58 <timeless> so i can look for individual words
Nov 27 19:26:58 * mgedmin wants to know how the ssh server knows to check the r&d flag
Nov 27 19:27:00 <svu> inz, amazing. in os2007 I did not use that mode :(
Nov 27 19:27:22 <timeless> mgedmin: i don't think it's the server, it's probably pam or something wonky
Nov 27 19:27:29 <kulve> svu: yep, they changed it. I just copied my ssh keys in R&D mode and now I can log in as root in normal mode too
Nov 27 19:27:47 <timeless> personally, i'd probably write a deb that installs an ssh key :)
Nov 27 19:27:54 <db48x> well, I couldn't get my Aunt on the phone, but I sent her an email
Nov 27 19:28:05 <timeless> it's either that or writing a deb that adds a toor user
Nov 27 19:28:15 <svu> kulve, damn:( so, it means - no way to become root at all - without r&d?
Nov 27 19:28:22 <timeless> db48x: she can help for one?
Nov 27 19:28:30 <timeless> svu: application manager can do it
Nov 27 19:28:43 <timeless> write a deb that installs an ssh key to /root/.ssh/authorized_keys
Nov 27 19:28:45 <svu> timeless, I mean "shell as root"
Nov 27 19:28:49 <db48x> timeless: yea, danish
Nov 27 19:28:53 <_berto_> timeless: ok, so leave 'parado' then
Nov 27 19:28:53 <timeless> svu: once there's an ssh key for root
Nov 27 19:28:56 <timeless> you just ssh in
Nov 27 19:28:59 <Guy810> Install becomeroot another way
Nov 27 19:29:37 <svu> Guy810, how would I do it? where would I get becomeroot deb?
Nov 27 19:30:52 <Guy810> svu: http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4&sort=hits&show_pck=136#136
Nov 27 19:31:20 * timeless frowns
Nov 27 19:32:02 <svu> Guy810, thanks
Nov 27 19:32:42 <Guy810> Sure
Nov 27 19:33:27 <mgedmin> so, how can I mount a jffs2 image on a laptop?
Nov 27 19:33:42 <mgedmin> mtdram is unable to allocate the 128 megs it needs
Nov 27 19:33:47 <mgedmin> hm, maybe I should kill firefox...
Nov 27 19:35:11 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 19:36:42 <mgedmin> didn't help...
Nov 27 19:36:53 <mgedmin> allocation failed: out of vmalloc space - use vmalloc=<size> to increase size.
Nov 27 19:37:40 <Khertan> re. ...
Nov 27 19:37:47 <sp3000> ahh
Nov 27 19:37:52 * sp3000 wins at sql again
Nov 27 19:37:54 <Khertan> sorry ... my stupid ubuntu keep disconnect wifi !
Nov 27 19:37:59 <sp3000> this is such a rollercoaster ;)
Nov 27 19:38:08 <timeless> ok, so... still suck searching for it :(
Nov 27 19:38:13 <Khertan>  just about the os2008 beta there seems to be a change on the thumb keyboard, now on pygtkeditor all the text are loaded in the small text area which make the thumb keyboard very slow
Nov 27 19:38:13 <Khertan>  someone have already noticed that ?
Nov 27 19:38:34 <timeless> ?
Nov 27 19:38:36 <timeless> what's that mean?
Nov 27 19:38:47 <timeless> oh
Nov 27 19:38:54 <timeless> um, it didn't always do that?
Nov 27 19:39:11 <Khertan> in os2007 only 5 line before and 5 line after was loaded
Nov 27 19:39:29 <Khertan> in this small thumb keyboard text are
Nov 27 19:39:34 <Lateralus> Are the dbus method for osso-media-server documented somewhere, or is there a good way to discover them?
Nov 27 19:39:35 <Khertan> s/are/area
Nov 27 19:39:37 <timeless> https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&component=Finger+keyboard
Nov 27 19:39:40 <timeless> is the list of known bugs
Nov 27 19:39:45 <timeless> fairly short list
Nov 27 19:39:59 <timeless> file a bug, include a testcase and steps to reproduce
Nov 27 19:40:08 <timeless> pictures from:
Nov 27 19:40:38 <timeless> sleep 10; /usr/bin/screenshottool /home/user/MyDocs/.images/unhappy.png
Nov 27 19:40:42 <Khertan> there is a also an other bug when i enter text in xterm with thumbkeyboard ... text is entered two time
Nov 27 19:40:51 <Khertan> this seems not to be listed too
Nov 27 19:41:08 <timeless> that sounds familiar
Nov 27 19:42:08 <Khertan> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2391
Nov 27 19:42:12 <Khertan> already exist
Nov 27 19:42:40 <sp3000> third term: full[- ]?screen :)
Nov 27 19:43:32 <timeless> oh
Nov 27 19:43:51 <timeless> the bug i was thinking about is that in 2007 the xterm would get the previously used fkb text when you opened fkb
Nov 27 19:43:53 <timeless> which was... fun
Nov 27 19:46:04 <unique311> way offtopic, but im very proud of my latest photoshop digital painting.  http://conceptart.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=247222&stc=1&d=1196077219
Nov 27 19:47:05 <timeless> annotomically incorrect
Nov 27 19:47:12 <timeless> (or something like that)
Nov 27 19:47:22 <timeless> (that's not a word i can ever recall having tried to spell)
Nov 27 19:47:41 <unique311> lol
Nov 27 19:47:55 <unique311> anytomically
Nov 27 19:47:57 <unique311> i think
Nov 27 19:48:04 <unique311> shit
Nov 27 19:48:05 <Tak> anatomically
Nov 27 19:48:16 <timeless> anatomically
Nov 27 19:48:22 <timeless> (so says google suggest)
Nov 27 19:48:23 <unique311> lol
Nov 27 19:48:48 <unique311> waist wise.
Nov 27 19:48:52 <unique311> slightly
Nov 27 19:48:56 <inz> uniq, looks like something from GTA Vice City
Nov 27 19:49:04 <unique311> i'm always off somewhere
Nov 27 19:49:10 <unique311> does it.
Nov 27 19:51:02 <unique311> timeless, where did i go wrong?
Nov 27 19:51:16 <timeless> somewhere around the bust
Nov 27 19:51:19 <unique311> lol
Nov 27 19:51:26 <timeless> mostly the spine probably
Nov 27 19:51:40 <timeless> it seems to slope backwards improperly
Nov 27 19:52:04 <db48x> maybe that's a corset she's wearing
Nov 27 19:52:08 <timeless> that could actually be a shading issue
Nov 27 19:52:13 <Khertan> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2402
Nov 27 19:52:46 <timeless> khertan: please don't set tm
Nov 27 19:52:54 <timeless> that's really for someone fixing the bug (or reporting it's fixed)
Nov 27 19:54:00 <inz> mmh, repository.maemo.org takes me back to modem ages
Nov 27 19:54:05 <Khertan> tm ?
Nov 27 19:54:25 <unique311> seems similar somewhat  http://english.people.com.cn/200409/01/images/0831_A16.jpg
Nov 27 19:54:28 <inz> Khertan, Target Milestone
Nov 27 19:54:50 <Khertan> oups yes ... i ll change this
Nov 27 19:56:07 <timeless> it might be coloring...
Nov 27 19:56:09 <unique311> my model just has a slight twist.  bottom part is not a full side view, but top around the waist is a full side view.
Nov 27 19:56:12 <unique311> yeah
Nov 27 19:56:12 <Khertan>  You tried to change the Target Milestone field from 4.0  to ---  , but only the assignee of the bug, or a sufficiently empowered user may change that field.
Nov 27 19:56:16 <Khertan> arg too late
Nov 27 19:56:38 * sp3000 homes
Nov 27 19:56:48 <timeless> also, the woman in the .cn has much thinner legs
Nov 27 19:56:50 <timeless> which is correct
Nov 27 19:56:58 <timeless> yours are too thick for the midsection
Nov 27 19:57:05 <timeless> (which is barbie thin)
Nov 27 19:57:38 <timeless> but no, flip back/forward between those two
Nov 27 19:57:38 <unique311> she's of african descent.
Nov 27 19:58:04 <timeless> that gives her much bigger legs?
Nov 27 19:58:11 <unique311> hips
Nov 27 19:58:44 <timeless> anyway, it's really the shoulders aren't properly attached
Nov 27 19:59:02 <timeless> it feels like you merged an upright head
Nov 27 19:59:07 <timeless> onto a leaning bust
Nov 27 19:59:15 <timeless> onto an upright torso
Nov 27 20:00:00 <unique311> learning. thnks fro the feedback
Nov 27 20:00:12 <timeless> proportionally, here torso is much narrower than the other woman's
Nov 27 20:00:24 <timeless> (also her arms are, again, poroportionally)
Nov 27 20:00:49 <timeless> now, if you're saying her arms are malnoruished, that's almost ok
Nov 27 20:00:55 <timeless> but then you need to do something to her legs :(
Nov 27 20:01:33 <timeless> also, the shading on the "right" arm isn't compatible w/ her legs/armpit
Nov 27 20:01:48 <timeless> (too flat?)
Nov 27 20:02:30 <timeless> and for some reason, my eye claims her left earing isn't round
Nov 27 20:02:36 <timeless> and it's not because you turned it
Nov 27 20:02:53 <timeless> it's not properly balanced between top and bottom :)
Nov 27 20:03:10 <timeless> anyway, to everyone who writes ui software... this is pretty much what i do to that too
Nov 27 20:07:27 * Tak resolves to write cli software from now on
Nov 27 20:08:42 <kulve> alterego: btw. I just upgraded my screen grabber. It did work before, even though it didn't show anything, but now it shows couple of banners too..
Nov 27 20:08:44 <K`zan> LOL
Nov 27 20:09:10 <inz> kulve, is it better than mine?
Nov 27 20:09:26 <kulve> inz: dunno. What's yours? :)
Nov 27 20:09:36 <alterego> kulve, much better ;)
Nov 27 20:09:44 <inz> kulve, mh-shot-tool
Nov 27 20:09:54 <kulve> mine is just a desktop entry for osso-screenshot-tool, and it save the file to Images. Nothing more
Nov 27 20:09:56 * Tak <3 mh-shot-tool
Nov 27 20:11:40 <kulve> inz: is somewhere a page saying what it does?
Nov 27 20:13:20 <unique311> timeless, its the angles  certain stuff are positioned at.
Nov 27 20:13:28 <unique311> i'm not sure you looking at the angels.
Nov 27 20:13:38 * czr peeks
Nov 27 20:14:26 <Tak> mh-shot-tool is a hildonized screenshot tool with timer, preview, and save-as
Nov 27 20:14:27 <pupnik> hi! so who has the skillz to port DrPocketSNES or SquidgeSNES from gp2x to Nokia 770, N800 and N810?
Nov 27 20:14:43 <kulve> mh-shot-tool?
Nov 27 20:14:43 <_Monkey> rumour has it mh-shot-tool is working on the 810, thanks guys
Nov 27 20:14:50 <czr> timeless, I got steamrolled in 2383 :-)
Nov 27 20:15:02 <kulve> (just checked if the bot learner, what tak said)
Nov 27 20:15:03 * czr cries
Nov 27 20:15:25 <Tak> pupnik: apparently nobody who also has the inclinationz
Nov 27 20:16:46 <pupnik> Tak: you know i just am here to be annoying on that issue
Nov 27 20:17:37 <Tak> hey, I'm all for it
Nov 27 20:17:39 <kulve> mh-shot-tool is just too complicated ;)
Nov 27 20:18:11 <Tak> I'm just cynical and pessimistic
Nov 27 20:18:16 <svu> is there a non-hackish way to install skype on os2008 ?
Nov 27 20:19:50 <CosmicRay> it came preinstalled on my n810
Nov 27 20:21:16 <guerby> I'm impressed by OS2008 beta on my N800, great work Nokia!
Nov 27 20:21:54 <svu> CosmicRay, not everyone can buy 810 yet. even the people with discount codes;)
Nov 27 20:22:11 <alterego> I'm gonna call this theme Aqua for all the iPhone fan boyz.
Nov 27 20:22:15 <alterego> Who like E17
Nov 27 20:22:19 <CosmicRay> svu: understood.  I was just saying that this implies there is a non-hackish way ;-)
Nov 27 20:22:24 <alterego> And I'm not talking about the WM ..
Nov 27 20:22:46 <svu> CosmicRay, not for n800 it seems. it asks for the "latest updates for n810" :)
Nov 27 20:23:20 <solmumaha> hmm, it installed fine on my n800 today
Nov 27 20:23:30 <svu> solmumaha, how did you do it?
Nov 27 20:23:45 <solmumaha> yesterday it whined, but today it i just ran apt-get install skype and it installed
Nov 27 20:24:11 <ldspartan> does it actually work, or just install?
Nov 27 20:24:29 <alterego> solmumaha, it works when you do it via apt-get
Nov 27 20:24:32 <alterego> Not from the appman
Nov 27 20:24:34 <solmumaha> works too
Nov 27 20:24:47 <svu> solmumaha, ok, thanks, I'll check again
Nov 27 20:25:15 <solmumaha> shows up in app manager too
Nov 27 20:25:28 <alterego> Shows up, doesn't install ;)
Nov 27 20:25:48 * doc|work smacks alterego for the e17 slur
Nov 27 20:25:57 <solmumaha> it did!
Nov 27 20:26:05 <solmumaha> shows up as installed
Nov 27 20:26:19 <svu> solmumaha, ok, it seems to be ok now. I tried today morning (GMT) - and it did not work
Nov 27 20:26:23 <svu> thanks
Nov 27 20:26:26 <alterego> solmumaha, listen carefully. I'm saying you _can't_ install it _from_ the app manager. That is all.
Nov 27 20:26:43 <alterego> Of course it shows up, that's meaningless. The app manager _can't_ _install_ _it_ ...
Nov 27 20:26:45 <doc|work> hmmm, OS update already? :)
Nov 27 20:26:56 <solmumaha> well apt-get can
Nov 27 20:27:03 <solmumaha> good enough for me
Nov 27 20:27:05 <alterego> We know apt-get can
Nov 27 20:27:07 <czr> alterego, did you try with red-pill?
Nov 27 20:27:14 <alterego> No
Nov 27 20:27:18 <alterego> I don't care for skype :)
Nov 27 20:27:19 <doc|work> how do you select all of the available updates with the update manager?
Nov 27 20:27:22 <czr> you have the package control somewhere nearby?
Nov 27 20:27:24 <czr> ah
Nov 27 20:28:14 * pupnik points to girlfriend
Nov 27 20:28:33 <doc|work> hehe
Nov 27 20:30:29 <timeless>  400 "Tryk pC% 'Detaljer' for at undersC8ge certifikatet. Hvis du har tillid til "
Nov 27 20:30:29 <timeless>  401 "certifikatet, skal du trykke pC% 'OK' for at installere det."
Nov 27 20:31:44 <lopz> bye
Nov 27 20:31:49 <doc|work> hmmm, I'm getting "application packages missing: libglade2-0 (=1:2.4.0-1osso2) when trying to install libglade2-0 (1:2.6.2-1indt1). Anyone got any idea how I fix that?
Nov 27 20:32:04 <timeless> Et script pC% denne side er muligvis optaget eller svarer ikke lC&ngere. Trykke pC% 'OK' for stop scriptet nu, eller fortsC&t for at se om scriptet udfC8res.
Nov 27 20:32:11 <timeless> how bad does that sound? :)
Nov 27 20:32:26 <elb> complete gibberish
Nov 27 20:32:27 <elb> ;-)
Nov 27 20:35:19 <czr> timeless, sv or dk?
Nov 27 20:35:28 <czr> or no?
Nov 27 20:35:59 <timeless> da-DK
Nov 27 20:37:28 <timeless> hrm
Nov 27 20:37:29 <timeless>  138 "Tryk pC% 'NC&ste' for at fortsC&tte."
Nov 27 20:38:56 <doc|work> anyone?
Nov 27 20:38:57 <_Monkey> hmmm... anyone is using synergy on n800 ?
Nov 27 20:39:00 <pupnik> hi doc|work still a problem?
Nov 27 20:39:05 <timeless> what's Venter?
Nov 27 20:39:14 <timeless> _monkey forget anyone
Nov 27 20:39:15 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot anyone
Nov 27 20:39:17 <doc|work> pupnik: hey, yep, one mentioned above
Nov 27 20:39:21 <timeless> _monkey anyone is <reply>
Nov 27 20:39:21 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Nov 27 20:39:39 <pupnik> i haven't seen that before - looks like a strange situation due to adding different repositories
Nov 27 20:39:48 <timeless> Et script pC% denne side er muligvis optaget eller svarer ikke lC&ngere. Trykke pC% 'OK' for stop scriptet nu, eller trykke Annuller fortsC&te venter.
Nov 27 20:39:48 <doc|work> yeah
Nov 27 20:39:55 <timeless> czr: how's that? :|
Nov 27 20:40:15 <pupnik> doc|work: in your case i'd wget (download) both versions of libglade2-0 to the mmc card
Nov 27 20:40:19 <pupnik> then install one with dpkg -i
Nov 27 20:40:22 <czr> timeless, read the last comment?
Nov 27 20:40:40 <timeless> last comment where? :(~\
Nov 27 20:40:40 <czr> timeless, it's ok though. I'm not pursuing it further, went too far as it was :-)
Nov 27 20:40:43 <pupnik> if that doesn't work then i'd remove it with apt-get remove --purge libglade2-0 and then dpkg -i the other one
Nov 27 20:40:48 <czr> timeless, 2383 damn it
Nov 27 20:40:49 <timeless> 2383?
Nov 27 20:41:15 <doc|work> pupnik: isn't that likely to screw up the one that's there, seeing as it wants an older version?
Nov 27 20:41:18 <svu> skype still cannot do video, of course
Nov 27 20:41:33 <svu> are there any 3rd party home page applets for 2008?
Nov 27 20:41:40 <timeless> hrm
Nov 27 20:41:57 <timeless> confused
Nov 27 20:42:03 <timeless> Even though debian and ubuntu don't use apt.conf but have moved to using
Nov 27 20:42:03 <timeless> apt.conf.d they both still use sources.list, which btw. isn't owned by any
Nov 27 20:42:03 <timeless> package but copied in place in the postinstall script. I see no point in making
Nov 27 20:42:03 <timeless> a move to a totally 'source.listless' setup before the upstream does.
Nov 27 20:42:05 <timeless> oh
Nov 27 20:42:12 <timeless> they use apt.conf.d but not yet source.list.d
Nov 27 20:42:15 <timeless> intetersting
Nov 27 20:42:20 <timeless> *srug*
Nov 27 20:42:22 <pupnik> doc|work: dunno - i usually play fast and loose with dpkg -i, and if something breaks, i remove with apt-get remove
Nov 27 20:42:26 <timeless> i used list.d when i customized ubuntu
Nov 27 20:42:40 <timeless> see if you can find out when upstream is planning on fixing itself? :)
Nov 27 20:42:47 <doc|work> pupnik: meh, I'll survive a few days without an update :)
Nov 27 20:43:41 <czr> timeless, yes. I told you that before I think
Nov 27 20:43:42 <pupnik> but most people recommend that you not do a global update  - due to strangeness like that
Nov 27 20:43:57 <czr> timeless, you could file a bug against upstream/debian and see how it flies ;-)
Nov 27 20:44:29 <doc|work> pupnik: how are you supposed to do it then?
Nov 27 20:45:15 <timeless> i don't like debian enough to bother
Nov 27 20:47:48 <czr> timeless, last time I tried to file a bug/patch against ubuntu, launchpad was out in maintenance ;-)
Nov 27 20:48:04 <czr> which reminds me, I should probably try to add the patch now that it's likely to be running again
Nov 27 20:48:18 <timeless> ok, google doesn't like my trnaslation
Nov 27 20:49:36 <pupnik> doc|work: just upgrade specific programs you want to upgrade
Nov 27 20:50:03 <timeless> http://www.tranexp.com:2000/InterTran?url=http%3A%2F%2F&type=text&text=continue+waiting&from=eng&to=dan
Nov 27 20:50:05 <timeless> :(
Nov 27 20:50:41 <timeless> ok, much better
Nov 27 20:51:14 <timeless> any idea what
Nov 27 20:51:19 <timeless> venter forsat might mean?
Nov 27 20:53:03 <czr> ask on #ubuntu-dk ? :-)
Nov 27 20:53:32 <czr> timeless, since you're now learning finnish, this isn't by any chance translated by you? :-) : http://tulilahti.fi/ihailija/ihailija_02.jpg
Nov 27 21:01:36 <timeless> i'm assuming Unscrew isn't valid FI
Nov 27 21:01:54 <timeless> or Detach/Match/Install
Nov 27 21:01:57 <czr> timeless :-)
Nov 27 21:02:18 <timeless> speaking of fi
Nov 27 21:02:34 <timeless> sp3000 expressed amazing distaste for the FI text in http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg&hl=en#
Nov 27 21:02:38 <timeless> so please offer a replacement
Nov 27 21:02:55 <timeless> venter fortsat => awaiting prosecuted
Nov 27 21:02:59 <timeless> that doesn't sound right :(
Nov 27 21:03:10 <czr> uh. I'm supposed to have a google account for that, right?
Nov 27 21:03:23 <timeless> you can use a non google account
Nov 27 21:03:33 <czr> I don't have any and don't want to create one.
Nov 27 21:03:37 <timeless> google docs automatically accepts gmail accounts but you can register w/ anything
Nov 27 21:03:42 <timeless> db48x uses a yahoo account
Nov 27 21:03:45 <czr> I don't want to register for google.
Nov 27 21:03:51 <timeless> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg
Nov 27 21:04:02 <timeless> should let you see w/o requiring registration
Nov 27 21:04:07 * czr nods
Nov 27 21:04:58 <czr> yeah, it's slightly klunky -fi.
Nov 27 21:05:22 <czr> however I'd need to see the text in the buttons that can be chosen at that point
Nov 27 21:05:25 <timeless> less klunky -fi appreciated
Nov 27 21:05:32 <sp3000> it's the ~same as fx fwiw
Nov 27 21:05:45 <timeless> that's in D8/D9
Nov 27 21:05:47 <timeless> err
Nov 27 21:05:49 <czr> well, translating into -fi is quite difficult at times. it's a string of compromises really.
Nov 27 21:05:49 <timeless> D8/E8
Nov 27 21:06:18 <timeless> rm -rf /world/languages/fi
Nov 27 21:06:26 <timeless> problem solved
Nov 27 21:06:32 <timeless> heck
Nov 27 21:06:35 <czr> I'll smoke and get back to you. what is this for again?
Nov 27 21:06:47 <timeless> rm -rf /world/countries/finland/languages/fi
Nov 27 21:06:57 <timeless> javascript:while(1);
Nov 27 21:07:04 <timeless> load that in your web browser and wait
Nov 27 21:07:10 <czr> no I mean like who will benefit from this
Nov 27 21:07:15 <timeless> eventually you get a dialog
Nov 27 21:07:16 <czr> I use konqueror ;-)
Nov 27 21:07:19 <timeless> the dialog has this text
Nov 27 21:07:26 <czr> I suspected as much.
Nov 27 21:07:35 <timeless> the goal is for the user to know what happens when OK / Peruuta are pressed
Nov 27 21:07:35 <czr> what do the button texts contain for this dialog?
Nov 27 21:07:40 <czr> ah ok.
Nov 27 21:07:42 <sp3000> okcancel
Nov 27 21:07:45 * timeless said that
Nov 27 21:07:50 <czr> OK is not a good choice of concept for this.
Nov 27 21:07:53 <timeless> they're in the spreadsheet
Nov 27 21:08:00 <timeless> czr: standards are great
Nov 27 21:08:08 <timeless> i think firefox might have Stop and not sure anymore
Nov 27 21:08:13 <timeless> or Stop Script and not sure anymore
Nov 27 21:08:26 <sp3000> [Stop] [Not Sure]
Nov 27 21:08:39 <sp3000> [Continue] [Stop Script]
Nov 27 21:08:45 <timeless> [Stop script] [continue]
Nov 27 21:08:53 <sp3000> (gnomey order)
Nov 27 21:09:00 <timeless> (win order)
Nov 27 21:09:06 <timeless> (who uses gnome, and why?)
Nov 27 21:09:17 <timeless> note: the gnomey order is especially bad here
Nov 27 21:09:22 <timeless> the default is unsafe
Nov 27 21:09:36 <timeless> personally, my favorite flavor is:
Nov 27 21:09:41 <timeless> [Crash A] [Crash B]
Nov 27 21:09:58 <timeless> because in 2004 or so, when i got that dialog, those were my choices
Nov 27 21:10:08 <timeless> it pretty much didn't seem to matter which button i pressed
Nov 27 21:10:18 <dolske> Cancel means Continue? What a  country!
Nov 27 21:10:23 <timeless> i think A was like a 3/5 chance of crashing and maybe B was 4/7
Nov 27 21:10:48 <timeless> dolske: realm:dom.spidermonkey
Nov 27 21:11:24 <czr> "jatka/keskeytä" would be more proper in -fi in this case
Nov 27 21:12:00 <timeless> we're not rewriting the buttons
Nov 27 21:12:03 <czr> "continue/abort(without the neg conn of english abort)"
Nov 27 21:12:06 <czr> so I thought
Nov 27 21:12:12 <czr> OK isn't proper finnish
Nov 27 21:12:13 <timeless> the title of the window is {localized}JavaScript Confirmation
Nov 27 21:12:17 <timeless> or something lik ehtat
Nov 27 21:12:25 <czr> and peruuta means "go back/take it back"
Nov 27 21:12:51 <czr> timeless, I'll delegate this to someone who actually does fi-location for oss, give me a sec
Nov 27 21:12:57 <czr> l10n even
Nov 27 21:12:59 <sp3000> czr: fx is Pysäytä komentotiedosto, Jatka. fwiw
Nov 27 21:13:02 <timeless> ooh yum
Nov 27 21:13:17 <sxpert> nah, apt-get
Nov 27 21:13:18 <kaltsi> in Mac I've seen 'kumoa' which means 'cancel'.. but I hate that word.
Nov 27 21:13:22 <timeless> czr: don't suppose you can find da or nb-NO?
Nov 27 21:13:32 <czr> so3000, pysäytä = stop. that implies it can be continued later :-)
Nov 27 21:13:52 <czr> at least the finnish version implies that.
Nov 27 21:14:05 * timeless pokes kaltsi
Nov 27 21:14:07 <czr> kumoa = overturn. which is bad finnish.
Nov 27 21:14:20 <sp3000> meh, so does keskeytä. (vrt. keskeytys)
Nov 27 21:14:20 <czr> at least for programs :-)
Nov 27 21:14:39 <czr> sp3000, you think? hmm. imho not, but what do I know :-)
Nov 27 21:15:12 <Mikho> what are you talking about?
Nov 27 21:15:31 <sp3000> now lopeta, on the other hand...
Nov 27 21:15:34 <svu> does n810 have hardware volume buttons?
Nov 27 21:15:42 <czr> sp3000, that has negative connotations :-)
Nov 27 21:15:44 <kaltsi> svu: no
Nov 27 21:15:47 <czr> sp3000, similar to "terminate" :-)
Nov 27 21:15:51 <sp3000> but that'd require a verb
Nov 27 21:15:59 <svu> damn. they did not learn the lesson.
Nov 27 21:16:06 <sp3000> as the object, or you'd be murdering, which would be ...that
Nov 27 21:16:28 <sp3000> czr: päätä? :)
Nov 27 21:16:44 <sp3000> that'd be weird.
Nov 27 21:16:51 <czr> sp3000, too many meanings :-) (including "oh c'mon, make up your mind already") :-)
Nov 27 21:17:14 <czr> translating into finnish is hard.
Nov 27 21:17:33 <timeless> Trykke pC% 'OK' for stop scriptet nu, eller trykke Annuller hen til fortsC&tte venter
Nov 27 21:17:34 <timeless> =>
Nov 27 21:17:35 <timeless> Press at 'OK' by stop scriptet actually , or press Disallow to prosecute awaiting
Nov 27 21:17:41 <sp3000> meh, the longer text elaborates :)
Nov 27 21:17:45 <timeless> how's that for a round trip?
Nov 27 21:18:22 <czr> prosecute waiting sounds like something you'd want to do in a restaurant with very slow service.
Nov 27 21:18:32 * timeless chuckles
Nov 27 21:18:37 <timeless> you've been in finland too long ;-)
Nov 27 21:18:44 <timeless> but actually
Nov 27 21:18:49 <timeless> that's pretty much what we're talking about
Nov 27 21:18:51 <czr> I have indeed.
Nov 27 21:19:00 <timeless> a web page w/ slow service
Nov 27 21:19:34 <czr> what about this "Sivun tekijä on kädetön apina jonka pitäisi edes joskus yrittää opetella javascripta tai edes jotain. Paina "peruuta", haluat kuitenkin".
Nov 27 21:19:40 <Mikho> you're looking for words with only one interpretation?
Nov 27 21:20:00 <czr> Mikho, better translated string for javascript gone bonkers dialog on a page in -fi.
Nov 27 21:20:22 <czr> Mikho, http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg
Nov 27 21:20:23 <Mikho> oh, what page?
Nov 27 21:20:24 <_Monkey> well, page is taken?
Nov 27 21:20:37 <sp3000> >_<
Nov 27 21:20:40 <timeless> _moenky forget page
Nov 27 21:20:42 <Mikho> i see
Nov 27 21:20:46 <timeless> _moenky page is <reply>
Nov 27 21:21:00 <czr> moankey
Nov 27 21:21:03 <timeless> _monkey forget page
Nov 27 21:21:03 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot page
Nov 27 21:21:10 <timeless> _monkey page is <reply>
Nov 27 21:21:10 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Nov 27 21:21:17 * timeless should clearly retire for the night
Nov 27 21:21:23 <timeless> failure to type _monkey is fatal
Nov 27 21:21:24 <pupnik> monkeys roasting on an open fire
Nov 27 21:21:37 <czr> would "sovelma" be better translation for a "script"?
Nov 27 21:21:46 <czr> or "komentosarja" even.
Nov 27 21:21:57 <Mikho> "komentotiedosto" makes me shiver
Nov 27 21:21:57 <kaltsi> O_o
Nov 27 21:22:16 <czr> esp since it's not a "command file" :-)
Nov 27 21:22:25 <kaltsi> k�sikirjoitus
Nov 27 21:22:26 <czr> kaltsi, see the link I gave to Mikho above
Nov 27 21:22:29 <svu> I cannot believe. There is no vim build for os2008!
Nov 27 21:22:46 <kaltsi> czr: yes I just couldn't believe someone would suggest something like 'sovelma'
Nov 27 21:22:47 <Mikho> skripti
Nov 27 21:23:16 <czr> kaltsi, it's shorter than komentosarja :-)
Nov 27 21:23:18 <kaltsi> skripti ei skulaa paina ok tai k�nkel
Nov 27 21:23:40 <Mikho> :D
Nov 27 21:23:46 <czr> although I'm seeing that a lot of the other translations are using "script" anyway
Nov 27 21:23:54 <czr> for example the 'ru' one.
Nov 27 21:24:30 <czr> the ru translation is somewhat bad as well though. at least in my eyes.
Nov 27 21:24:33 <Mikho> I vote for "skripti"
Nov 27 21:24:44 <timeless> czr: i'm accepting changes
Nov 27 21:24:58 <czr> timeless, I know you are. I'm refusing from co-operating :-)
Nov 27 21:25:35 <elb> will English ITOS accept Russian input?
Nov 27 21:25:41 <kaltsi> for the person who needs that translated it's quite useless to provide those options.. it could be more like: Something's taking a while press X to stop waiting or Y to waste more of your time with the remote possibility that it's not a complete waste of your time.
Nov 27 21:25:41 <elb> (as an aside)
Nov 27 21:26:15 <kaltsi> s/options/finnish translations/
Nov 27 21:26:15 <infobot> kaltsi meant: for the person who needs that translated it's quite useless to provide those finnish translations.. it could be more like: Something's taking a while press X to stop waiting or Y to waste more of your time with the remote possibility that it's not a compl...
Nov 27 21:26:52 <czr> my friend is back, we'll see for the proper suggestion :-)
Nov 27 21:27:04 <timeless> <bz> timeless: it's better than the old... it's not that great
Nov 27 21:27:10 <timeless> (bz's view on new v. old)
Nov 27 21:27:13 <czr> kaltsi, I tried to say that. but the only buttons are OK and peruuta!
Nov 27 21:27:47 <czr> ah. friend tells me that he is aware of the ghastly dialog
Nov 27 21:27:56 <czr> and the ghastly buttons as well
Nov 27 21:28:04 <kaltsi> How about then: Your browser is about to run over a baby deer. OK or Back up (peruuta).
Nov 27 21:28:41 <sp3000> and the second time: Your browser ran over a baby deer. OK or Back up over it again (peruuta).
Nov 27 21:28:47 <Tak> "OK or Double OK?"
Nov 27 21:28:56 <kaltsi> hehe
Nov 27 21:28:59 * czr votes for both
Nov 27 21:29:31 <czr> friend says that he doesn't come up with anything better, but he's tired. should ask on #lokalisointi (ircnet) instead
Nov 27 21:29:58 <kaltsi> isn't there a Finnish word for 'lokalisointi' ?
Nov 27 21:30:12 <kaltsi> maybe I could go there and be a wise-ass about their channel name
Nov 27 21:30:14 <czr> kotoutettu :-)
Nov 27 21:30:23 <czr> but no one knows what it means. :-)
Nov 27 21:30:26 <kaltsi> kotoistus! I saw that word somewhere.
Nov 27 21:30:31 <czr> indeed
Nov 27 21:30:39 <czr> there's a new fi-keyboard layout
Nov 27 21:30:51 <czr> fi (kotoistettu)
Nov 27 21:30:59 <kaltsi> yes that's where I saw it
Nov 27 21:31:01 <gla55_> thats like using 'seitti' as 'web', sure some prof might agree it's better but still, half of the people will have no clue
Nov 27 21:31:08 <czr> it has the proper support for finnish letters, including the sh in shakki.
Nov 27 21:31:16 <czr> and some others
Nov 27 21:31:18 <sp3000> šakki!
Nov 27 21:31:20 <kaltsi> or using 'rakentaja' and 'purkaja' for constructor and destructor
Nov 27 21:31:26 <czr> sp3000, indeed
Nov 27 21:32:01 <czr> the second persona should be removed from the text at least, so tells my friend
Nov 27 21:32:01 <gla55_> kaltsi: i'd rather just write the whole design doc etc in english than use those...
Nov 27 21:33:35 <sp3000> rak/purk doesn't sound too horrible offhand
Nov 27 21:33:40 <czr> "Sivulla olevan komentosarjan suoritus on edelleen kesken, tai se ei vastaa. Paina OK pysäyttääksesi sarjan, tai Peruuta odottaaksesi sen valmistumista"
Nov 27 21:33:51 <kaltsi> anything Finnish in the context of programming or programs is usually really icky
Nov 27 21:33:52 <czr> although I don't like the whole komentosarja-concept
Nov 27 21:33:59 <sp3000> ~jono?
Nov 27 21:34:07 <sp3000> and sen
Nov 27 21:34:17 <czr> neh. that doesn't work either (for me)
Nov 27 21:34:22 <zuh> czr: I think the "official" word for script is komentojono(tiedosto). I'd still have trouble saying "Taas-Syntyneen kuoren komentojonotiedosto"
Nov 27 21:34:34 <zuh> with a straight face :)
Nov 27 21:34:35 <sp3000> jälleensyntyneen I should hope
Nov 27 21:34:39 <timeless> <bz> timeless: I'd translate "respond" as reagirovat' rather than otvechat' in
Nov 27 21:34:40 <timeless> +this context, myself
Nov 27 21:34:44 <sp3000> (actual word)
Nov 27 21:34:46 <czr> zuh, the official finnish version for "programming loop" is kiersiö.
Nov 27 21:34:50 <sp3000> but kuori, sheesh
Nov 27 21:34:54 <kaltsi> sivulla oleva komentojono lienee ikikiersi�ss�
Nov 27 21:34:59 <czr> which just proves that the official people are just smoking crack most of the time.
Nov 27 21:34:59 <timeless> vzr: could you convert "reagirovat" into cyrillic so that it could be adopted?
Nov 27 21:35:03 <czr> kaltsi :-)
Nov 27 21:35:39 <kaltsi> scratchboxissa on ly�nti kuori
Nov 27 21:35:45 <kaltsi> ly�m�kuori
Nov 27 21:35:47 <czr> lyönti?
Nov 27 21:35:50 <kaltsi> bash shell
Nov 27 21:35:53 <czr> heh
Nov 27 21:35:56 <czr> hakkauskuori
Nov 27 21:36:10 <czr> raaputinlaatikossa on hakkauskuori
Nov 27 21:36:22 <czr> or raaputuslaatikko
Nov 27 21:36:31 <czr> it does sound somewhat kinky though.
Nov 27 21:36:44 <solmumaha> indeed
Nov 27 21:36:48 <sp3000> the s/m sdk
Nov 27 21:36:52 <zuh> sp3000: "Bourne-Again" doesn't look like valid to me anyway, so the translation should follow the theme of it rather than correct it... ;)
Nov 27 21:36:58 <sp3000> zuh: good point
Nov 27 21:37:00 <kaltsi> Meduusa-taas
Nov 27 21:37:20 <czr>  "Sivulla olevan komentojonon suoritus on edelleen kesken, tai se ei vastaa. Paina OK pysäyttääksesi sen, tai Peruuta odottaaksesi sen valmistumista"
Nov 27 21:37:23 <czr> what about this then?
Nov 27 21:37:36 <kaltsi> if the movies 'the Bourne supremacy' etc were translated as 'Meduusan verkko'..
Nov 27 21:37:46 <czr> kaltsi, good point..
Nov 27 21:38:01 * czr votes for Meduusa-taas kuori.
Nov 27 21:38:29 <sp3000> czr: I have no idea wtf "tai se ei vastaa" refers to
Nov 27 21:38:39 <sp3000> czr: but that sounds reasonable
Nov 27 21:38:40 <czr> bleh. true
Nov 27 21:38:52 <czr> it should refer to komentojono, but grammatically speaking doesn't
Nov 27 21:39:06 <czr> tai jono ei vastaa?
Nov 27 21:39:16 <kaltsi> why should it answer?
Nov 27 21:39:25 * czr imagines of a long bread-queue in russia where people shout "que" to each other.
Nov 27 21:39:41 <sp3000> but then so does the english, I'm not sure what the script responding really intends
Nov 27 21:39:43 <czr> A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. being the original
Nov 27 21:39:48 <czr> reagoi?
Nov 27 21:40:00 <zuh> I like the version of the same thing which said "the script is making the browser run slowly, stop it?"
Nov 27 21:40:44 <czr> but that'd be different :-). might be true on 99.9% cases, but still, not the same :-)
Nov 27 21:41:11 <zuh> Yeah, I just liked it better :P
Nov 27 21:41:56 <czr> "Sivulla oleva komentojono on jumiutunut tai sen suoritus etenee hitaasti. Paina OK pysäyttääksesi sen, tai Peruuta odottaaksesi sen valmistumista"
Nov 27 21:42:03 <czr> how about that?
Nov 27 21:42:36 <zuh> Kuulostaa hyväksyttävältä.
Nov 27 21:43:03 <sp3000> wfm
Nov 27 21:43:06 <bill20r3> bless you.
Nov 27 21:43:12 <czr> timeless, basically that translates to "The script on the page has gotten stuck or is executing slowly. Press OK to stop it or Peruuta to wait for it's completion"
Nov 27 21:43:23 <timeless> its?
Nov 27 21:43:23 <kaltsi> it's!!
Nov 27 21:43:26 <timeless> otherwise, yum
Nov 27 21:43:29 <czr> its
Nov 27 21:43:30 <kaltsi> go to jail
Nov 27 21:43:41 * czr is already stuck
Nov 27 21:43:47 <timeless> get sp3000 to update the entry
Nov 27 21:43:49 <czr> I tried to run away before, and failed.
Nov 27 21:43:53 <czr> sp3000, update the entry
Nov 27 21:43:57 <sp3000> heh
Nov 27 21:44:19 <sp3000> might want to keep teh form of the latter sentence?
Nov 27 21:45:04 <kaltsi> add or remove a comma before 'tai'.. choose your 'tai' carefully
Nov 27 21:45:09 <sp3000> I think the valitse thing is prevalent terminology
Nov 27 21:45:29 <czr> I don't think I have the monopoly here :-)
Nov 27 21:45:34 <[pablo]> is there a way to manually lock the device in os2008 instead of using autolock? as in require a code not prevent keys from being pressed etc
Nov 27 21:45:41 <sp3000> in the shipped foo that is
Nov 27 21:45:55 * sp3000 started with s/tiedosto/jono/
Nov 27 21:46:24 <timeless> [pablo]: power keys?
Nov 27 21:46:29 <timeless> and select "lock device"
Nov 27 21:47:17 <sp3000> "Tällä sivulla oleva komentojono on jumiutunut tai sen suoritus etenee hitaasti. Voit pysäyttää komentojonon valitsemalla OK tai odottaa sen suorituksen valmistumista valitsemalla Peruuta."?
Nov 27 21:47:19 <kaltsi> heh that norwegian locale looks so desperate: no-NO NNOO DEAR GOD NOO!..
Nov 27 21:47:21 <zuh> Maybe you should go the mac way with paina/valitse and make it "osoita" ;)
Nov 27 21:47:39 <sp3000> N00
Nov 27 21:47:52 <[pablo]> i meant more along the lines of a terminal command, but that is useful too
Nov 27 21:47:59 <czr> zuh, or "halua" :-)
Nov 27 21:48:19 <czr> sp3000, looks pretty to me
Nov 27 21:48:27 <sp3000> ook
Nov 27 21:48:28 <czr> heh kaltsi
Nov 27 21:48:53 <zuh> czr: if that would be possible, the whole dialog could be automatically dismissed ;)
Nov 27 21:48:57 <kaltsi> how about just replacing the 'tai odottaa sen suorituksen valmistumista valitsemalla Peruuta' -> 'tai odottaa lis�� valitsemalla Peruuta'
Nov 27 21:49:05 <czr> zuh, you mean #maemo? :-)
Nov 27 21:49:15 <czr> kaltsi, odottaa lisää mitä?
Nov 27 21:49:25 <zuh> karkkia!
Nov 27 21:49:27 <kaltsi> mm palkkaa
Nov 27 21:49:33 <czr> elämä ois pop.
Nov 27 21:49:45 <kaltsi> odottaa viel�
Nov 27 21:49:48 <czr> heh
Nov 27 21:50:07 <kaltsi> or is that dialog going to pop up another time if someone presses cancel?
Nov 27 21:50:20 <czr> I think it will
Nov 27 21:50:28 <czr> or maybe it doesn't. timeless?
Nov 27 21:50:45 <timeless> eh?
Nov 27 21:50:48 <czr> timeless, btw, the en-strings are borked: "Press OK to stop the script now or Cancel continue waiting."
Nov 27 21:50:54 <czr> to missing from there.
Nov 27 21:51:08 <czr> timeless, if one presses cancel, and the script is still stuck, does the same dialog popup later?
Nov 27 21:51:09 <timeless> czr: arg
Nov 27 21:51:24 <timeless> yes
Nov 27 21:51:39 <timeless> you'll be bothered ever n intervals
Nov 27 21:51:40 <czr> ah. the fi needs revision then
Nov 27 21:51:45 <timeless> where n is some very undefined concept
Nov 27 21:51:49 <timeless> unless you break something
Nov 27 21:51:58 <timeless> by clicking the magic "remember me" button
Nov 27 21:52:01 <timeless> which isn't available in our ui
Nov 27 21:52:01 <kaltsi> well then the approach of 'continue waiting' a'la en-GB is good for fi-FI too
Nov 27 21:52:10 * czr nods
Nov 27 21:52:17 <timeless> in which case, it would not reappear, and if it loops forever, you're dead :)
Nov 27 21:52:20 <czr> but I fail at finding proper translation for it
Nov 27 21:52:22 <timeless> thankfully, that button isn't available
Nov 27 21:52:38 <czr> jatkaa valmistumisen odotusta!
Nov 27 21:52:43 <kaltsi> no way
Nov 27 21:52:52 <czr> I prefer to drop the "suorituksen" work completely
Nov 27 21:52:54 <timeless> confused
Nov 27 21:52:59 <timeless> what's wrong w/ the en strings?
Nov 27 21:53:04 <timeless> you complaining about punctuation?
Nov 27 21:53:08 <sp3000> Tällä sivulla oleva komentojono on jumiutunut tai sen suoritus etenee hitaasti (or, kestää pitkään?). Voit pysäyttää komentojonon valitsemalla OK tai jatkaa odottamista valitsemalla Peruuta.
Nov 27 21:53:10 <kaltsi> I think the 'valmistuminen' is not important
Nov 27 21:53:25 <czr> timeless, Press OK to stop the script now or Cancel _to_ continue waiting.
Nov 27 21:53:42 <timeless> czr: um
Nov 27 21:53:46 * timeless sees a 'to' there
Nov 27 21:53:51 * sp3000 too
Nov 27 21:53:53 <czr> I must have an old version
Nov 27 21:54:04 <timeless> how many blank slots do you have on the file?
Nov 27 21:54:10 <timeless> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg
Nov 27 21:54:24 <czr> I'll take a screenshots.
Nov 27 21:54:25 <kaltsi> I don't see the to
Nov 27 21:54:27 <czr> +s
Nov 27 21:54:29 <czr> -s
Nov 27 21:54:36 <timeless> nb-NO: Trykk OK for stop skript nu, eller Avbryt hen til fortsC&tte venter.
Nov 27 21:54:39 <kaltsi> the first row says KillScriptM Old
Nov 27 21:54:42 <timeless> trans: Accents FAIR ENOUGH for halt the script nu , or Cut off affection at fortsC&tte awaiting.
Nov 27 21:55:05 <sp3000> heh
Nov 27 21:55:19 * timeless goes shopping for "now"
Nov 27 21:55:25 <sp3000> A script on this page may be busy, or it may have stopped responding. Press FAIR ENOUGH to stop the script now or Cancel to continue waiting.
Nov 27 21:55:26 <czr> timeless, http://koltsoff.com/pub/kiersioe.png
Nov 27 21:55:46 <czr> "All your CPU are belong to script. Fair enough."
Nov 27 21:56:01 <sp3000> pub pubs a static version?
Nov 27 21:56:04 <maddler> evening all...
Nov 27 21:56:25 <pupnik> hahahaha
Nov 27 21:56:47 <timeless> strange
Nov 27 21:56:47 <czr> evenink maddler
Nov 27 21:56:51 <czr> sp3000 huh?
Nov 27 21:57:00 <timeless> it's supposed to auto republish
Nov 27 21:57:20 <timeless> reload
Nov 27 21:57:22 <timeless> (shift-refresh)
Nov 27 21:57:22 <czr> timeless, I'm using an old version of konq
Nov 27 21:57:26 <czr> I did.
Nov 27 21:57:30 <timeless> *now*
Nov 27 21:57:37 <czr> ah. now it works
Nov 27 21:57:41 <timeless> i got the same sucky version in ie... i just kicked it
Nov 27 21:57:44 <czr> more fields too
Nov 27 21:58:00 <timeless> if you want the finnish reference string, let me know
Nov 27 21:58:11 <timeless> i'd have to find the string, since i don't know the id :)
Nov 27 21:58:13 <czr> ask sp3000, I think he's working on it as we speak ;-)
Nov 27 21:59:34 <timeless> Trykk OK for stop skript nC%, eller Avbryt hen til fortsC&tte venter.
Nov 27 21:59:35 <timeless> =>
Nov 27 21:59:37 <timeless> Accents FAIR ENOUGH for halt the script now , or Cut off affection at fortsC&tte awaiting.
Nov 27 21:59:57 <timeless> almost done
Nov 27 22:00:50 <timeless> Trykk OK for stop skript nC%, eller Avbryt hen til fortsette venter.
Nov 27 22:00:51 <timeless> =>
Nov 27 22:00:53 <timeless> Accents FAIR ENOUGH for halt the script now , or Cut off affection at carry on awaiting.
Nov 27 22:01:02 <timeless> that's not bad :)
Nov 27 22:01:42 <czr> hmm. I'm trying to verify the "localhost internet sockets don't work in offline mode" (maemo-devel, grep for "web based local application GUIs")
Nov 27 22:01:46 <halley> What repo has sqlite3?  maemopad+ requires it.
Nov 27 22:01:52 <halley> (chinook)
Nov 27 22:01:57 <czr> halley, not in extras?
Nov 27 22:02:06 <timeless> Trykk OK for stop skript nC%, eller Avbryt til fortsette venter.
Nov 27 22:02:08 <timeless> Accents FAIR ENOUGH for halt the script now , or Cut off at carry on awaiting.
Nov 27 22:02:18 <halley> czr, I've only seen the -dev version, not the actual lib.
Nov 27 22:02:50 <timeless> Trykk OK for stop skript nC%, eller Avbryt for C% fortsette venter.
Nov 27 22:02:52 <timeless> Accents FAIR ENOUGH for halt the script now , or Cut off to carry on awaiting.
Nov 27 22:02:57 <timeless> how's that sound? :)
Nov 27 22:03:11 <czr> halley, hmm. is it on the device then?
Nov 27 22:03:26 <czr> the packages that are present on the device are not present in the sdk sometimes
Nov 27 22:03:44 <czr> I always failed to see the logic in that, but I'm only a sad luser.
Nov 27 22:04:04 <timeless> usually legal messes :)
Nov 27 22:04:08 <halley> not in "show installed applications" even under redpill
Nov 27 22:04:12 <timeless> Et skript pC% denne siden kan vC&re opptatt, eller det kan ha sluttet C% svare. Trykk OK for stopp skript nC%, eller Avbryt for C% fortsette venter.
Nov 27 22:04:14 <timeless> A the script at this end can be absorbed , or facts able have closed to answer. Accents FAIR ENOUGH for halt the script now , or Cut off to carry on awaiting.
Nov 27 22:04:36 <timeless> (that first sentence was written by the localizer)
Nov 27 22:04:44 <czr> halley, ii  libsqlite3-0                                   3.4.1-1osso3                       SQLite 3 shared library
Nov 27 22:04:54 <czr> halley, device running os2008, dpkg -l | grep sql
Nov 27 22:05:05 <halley> Oh, didn't look in the Ls silly me.
Nov 27 22:05:19 <timeless> /sqlite3-3.4.1/debian/control
Nov 27 22:05:21 <timeless> is on the device
Nov 27 22:05:31 <timeless> well, the result of that anyway :)
Nov 27 22:05:40 <czr> one result of that :-)
Nov 27 22:05:43 * czr pokes timeless
Nov 27 22:05:55 <timeless> the control file specifies libsqlite3-0 and libsqlite3-dev
Nov 27 22:06:00 <timeless> presumably dev didn't make it :)
Nov 27 22:06:05 <timeless> ijon: ping
Nov 27 22:06:09 <timeless> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pDeYoHoi4NZeSGjFwc8UCfg&hl=en#
Nov 27 22:06:10 <czr> it's not required on the device.
Nov 27 22:06:16 <timeless> please consider the russian
Nov 27 22:06:21 <timeless> czr: dev? sure
Nov 27 22:06:22 <czr> but I guess it's in free/extras.
Nov 27 22:06:36 <czr> timeless, why would it be?
Nov 27 22:06:45 <halley> Next-- how to find japanese fonts, and input method?
Nov 27 22:07:18 <halley> The maemocjk page looks promising but stale after google summer of code.
Nov 27 22:07:33 <halley> Don't know if that's the route for chinook or not.
Nov 27 22:08:08 <timeless> halley: complain to browser-extras for not offering fonts :)
Nov 27 22:08:49 <timeless> czr: so, back to russian
Nov 27 22:08:57 <timeless> can you convert bz's suggestion to cyrillic?
Nov 27 22:09:44 <lardman> aaaargh
Nov 27 22:09:52 * timeless pokes lardman
Nov 27 22:09:57 <lardman> anyone know where I can find gcc-3.4.x for Mandrake?
Nov 27 22:09:59 <kaltsi> hm was there something with the libsqlite3-0.. it seems to be in the sdk repo with the -dev
Nov 27 22:10:32 <lardman> ~lart Mandrake/Mandriva for neither having new nor old program versions
Nov 27 22:10:33 * infobot chops Mandrake/Mandriva in half with a free Solaris 7 CD for neither having new nor old program versions
Nov 27 22:10:46 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/source/sqlite3-3.4.1/debian/control
Nov 27 22:11:02 <timeless> the xref says chinook has /some/ part of sqlite
Nov 27 22:11:07 <timeless> too bad for me, my browser just crashed
Nov 27 22:11:31 <kaltsi> timeless: what's missing?
Nov 27 22:11:48 <kaltsi> ok the sqlite3-doc
Nov 27 22:12:02 <czr> timeless, unf not really. I don't write cyrillic. reading is possible (slow but possible), writing not.
Nov 27 22:12:21 <czr> timeless, also I'm crap at russian grammar as it is. never studied the language
Nov 27 22:12:23 <timeless> can you repeat it and ask the last .ru (ijon) to write it? :)
Nov 27 22:12:40 <sp3000> timeless: can you explain what script having stopped responding means in the en strings? :)
Nov 27 22:13:12 <sp3000> I mean the script can stop the browser responding, but the script not responding to things wouldn't tend to hurt more than the document's interaction
Nov 27 22:13:21 <timeless> "having"?
Nov 27 22:13:29 <timeless> oh
Nov 27 22:13:32 <timeless> well, um.. so...
Nov 27 22:13:35 <sp3000> which makes me wonder where it came from
Nov 27 22:13:40 <czr> timeless, not really :-).
Nov 27 22:13:54 <timeless> practically speaking, if the script is running the browser as we hacked it may try to stop the script
Nov 27 22:13:55 <halley> I wish there was a maemopad+ that didn't rely on a database.  Flat files are so much easier to deal with.
Nov 27 22:14:00 <czr> timeless, but keep your eyes open for other ru-speaking. I know there are some
Nov 27 22:14:40 * timeless repokes ijon
Nov 27 22:17:40 <timeless> ijon_: are you alive? i'm looking for someone to encode a word (reagirovat) in cyrillic
Nov 27 22:18:13 <timeless> sp3000: anyway
Nov 27 22:18:19 <timeless> the way things wokr in gecko
Nov 27 22:18:24 <fysa> does /etc/network/if-up.d/ work?
Nov 27 22:18:27 <timeless> if operation foo starts
Nov 27 22:18:35 <timeless> and is stupid enough to try to suspend
Nov 27 22:18:49 <timeless> it suspends by getting stuck in the C stack until the thing that is now being processes finishes
Nov 27 22:18:56 <timeless> if you have slowscripts in two windows
Nov 27 22:19:18 <timeless> then the script in the first window will not function at *all* until the slow script in the second window completes
Nov 27 22:19:59 <timeless> in this stupid edge case, the document not responding hurts more than just itself
Nov 27 22:20:18 <timeless> in some quasi ideal case, other things may be able to respond
Nov 27 22:20:32 <timeless> but in standard gecko, practically speaking *nothing* but the script is running until the slow script completes
Nov 27 22:20:57 <timeless> it kind of depends on how strangely things operate
Nov 27 22:21:04 <timeless> note that it's not supposed to be "document"
Nov 27 22:21:10 <timeless> properly it's "connected window set"
Nov 27 22:21:13 <halley> Hm, I don't like the topedge buttons being basically unreachable if the screen is popped up.
Nov 27 22:21:18 <timeless> if window 1 opens window 2, they're "connected"
Nov 27 22:21:44 <timeless> which means while a script is running in window 2, window 1 should not be allowed to respond to yuou
Nov 27 22:21:56 <timeless> an iframe in window 2 would stop an iframe in window 1
Nov 27 22:22:01 <db48x> yea
Nov 27 22:22:09 <sp3000> right, it's the language rather
Nov 27 22:22:12 * czr sees timeless working on his 24/7 :-)
Nov 27 22:22:29 <db48x> I think we should scrap the single threaded cooperative multitasking part of javascript
Nov 27 22:22:35 <czr> timeless, you're destined to fail though. I just put on some more coffee :-)
Nov 27 22:22:39 <timeless> czr: i'm actually 24/6+ something
Nov 27 22:22:56 <derf> We should scrap the single threaded cooperative multitasking part of everything.
Nov 27 22:22:57 <czr> timeless, ah, you need more training then :-)
Nov 27 22:23:01 <timeless> i have a blackout period which is technically 25hrs (shifting)
Nov 27 22:23:11 <db48x> the problem is that it makes it more difficult to write correct programs
Nov 27 22:23:14 <czr> derf, yes, I'm been telling people that the Linux kernel is shaite!
Nov 27 22:23:16 * czr hides & runs
Nov 27 22:23:19 <db48x> and javascript is supposed to be simple and easy
Nov 27 22:23:32 <derf> db48x: Hah!
Nov 27 22:23:41 <timeless> derf: this was a promise web browsers made to web page authors
Nov 27 22:23:45 <sp3000> not responding rather sounds like someone's poking at it and it's not doing anything
Nov 27 22:23:54 <sp3000> but afaiui nothing's poking at it
Nov 27 22:23:55 <czr> sp3000, it does indeed.
Nov 27 22:23:57 <db48x> sp3000: that's a fair description
Nov 27 22:24:11 <timeless> sp3000: in standard gecko if you click the window, nothing will happen
Nov 27 22:24:13 <timeless> "it's busy"
Nov 27 22:24:16 <sp3000> for the app, yeah
Nov 27 22:24:23 <sp3000> but not so much the script
Nov 27 22:24:24 <db48x> sp3000: the os is sending it requests to paint something, and it can't because it's too busy solving the halting problem or something
Nov 27 22:24:25 <timeless> in hacked microb, it might do "something"
Nov 27 22:24:32 <timeless> including breaking the web app :)
Nov 27 22:24:39 <czr> db48x, s/halting/turing/
Nov 27 22:24:54 <db48x> no, halting is the correct word
Nov 27 22:25:04 <sp3000> db48x: yeah but the script doesn't paint
Nov 27 22:25:09 <czr> db48x, it was a joke.
Nov 27 22:25:14 <db48x> ah
Nov 27 22:25:15 <alterego> This home theme looks _hawt_ ..
Nov 27 22:25:22 <db48x> sp3000: details, details
Nov 27 22:25:26 <timeless> sp3000: eh?
Nov 27 22:25:39 <timeless> sp3000: technically
Nov 27 22:25:46 <derf> sp3000: No, but nothing _can_ paint while the script is running.
Nov 27 22:25:58 <timeless> "A script somewhere relating to this window is causing this and related windows to stop responding"
Nov 27 22:26:07 <sp3000> :)
Nov 27 22:26:11 <db48x> packing a technically precise description of the real problem into a single sentance isn't going to help
Nov 27 22:26:13 <derf> I have this problem with lots of sites that execute a ginormous amount of javascript on load.
Nov 27 22:26:18 <db48x> the sentance will be too long to be useful
Nov 27 22:26:30 <timeless> translating that won't help matters
Nov 27 22:26:32 <derf> It will make the entire browser unresponsive for several seconds.
Nov 27 22:26:36 <timeless> worse, the impl we have is amazingly broken
Nov 27 22:26:47 <timeless> so, i'd rather not promise correctness we break :)
Nov 27 22:26:55 <db48x> derf: yea, that's what this is about. if it goes on like that for too long, this message appears
Nov 27 22:27:03 <czr> I've never seen any ecmascript implementation that wasn't fishy
Nov 27 22:27:16 <timeless> czr: ecmascript isn't bad
Nov 27 22:27:18 <timeless> it's dom that's fishy
Nov 27 22:27:23 <czr> but I haven't really been looking for couple of years. but they all were pretty hacky when I did the last research round
Nov 27 22:27:26 <db48x> timeless: is that because of that patch oleg showed us that I objected to?
Nov 27 22:27:34 <timeless> db48x: probably
Nov 27 22:27:35 <czr> well, ecmascript + the environment support for doing anything useful.
Nov 27 22:27:37 <sp3000> db48x: I don't think it needs to be long to say teh script is stuck :)
Nov 27 22:27:39 <kaltsi> anything that can be confused with emacs cannot be totally bad
Nov 27 22:27:42 <timeless> i objected first, i'm sure
Nov 27 22:27:50 <db48x> timeless: yea, probably
Nov 27 22:27:51 <sp3000> db48x: but to me it now sounsd like trying to be technical ans missing
Nov 27 22:27:57 <db48x> timeless: you've been working with it longer, after all
Nov 27 22:28:06 <czr> kaltsi, but can't be totally good either :-)
Nov 27 22:28:24 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/microb-engine/microb-engine/debian/patches/perf_addon/JSBreakExperimental.diff
Nov 27 22:28:27 <kaltsi> <3 emacs
Nov 27 22:28:29 <timeless> that one? :)
Nov 27 22:28:29 <sp3000> db48x: which gets doubly horrible when you translate it to something where 'not responding' doesn't sort of roll off the tongue
Nov 27 22:28:42 <db48x> timeless: yea, that's the one
Nov 27 22:28:51 <db48x> sp3000: yea, I understand
Nov 27 22:28:57 <timeless> db48x: my spec says you're supposed to freeze things
Nov 27 22:28:59 <timeless> he doesn't
Nov 27 22:29:01 * timeless grumbles
Nov 27 22:29:06 <timeless> db48x: you're free to get it right
Nov 27 22:29:12 <timeless> redfive had a windows impl
Nov 27 22:29:15 <timeless> i'm not sure it's so bad
Nov 27 22:29:18 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 22:29:30 <db48x> I figure we should separate the gtk main thread from the gecko main thread
Nov 27 22:29:41 <timeless> please
Nov 27 22:29:49 <timeless> i had a proposal for something more fun
Nov 27 22:29:56 <timeless> namely each script "world" gets its own thread
Nov 27 22:29:57 <db48x> so the outer gtk app can respond to events and paint even if the inner embedded gecko can't
Nov 27 22:29:58 <db48x> yea?
Nov 27 22:30:07 <db48x> cool, I think
Nov 27 22:30:13 <timeless> basically all js accesses to dom objects get proxied to the dom thread
Nov 27 22:30:27 <timeless> but if a script world gets slow. too bad
Nov 27 22:30:33 <timeless> and if the user clicks a link in a page that was running scripts
Nov 27 22:30:38 <czr> you do realize that using threads like this will make debugging close to impossible and waste a lot of memory?
Nov 27 22:30:43 <timeless> the page moves, and when the js tries to touch it, it dies
Nov 27 22:30:46 <db48x> czr: so?
Nov 27 22:30:51 <czr> just checking :-)
Nov 27 22:30:56 <timeless> czr: for one, we have a script debugger
Nov 27 22:30:58 <db48x> czr: it won't make it harder for page authors to debug
Nov 27 22:31:03 <timeless> for another, i had patches to make it thread safe
Nov 27 22:31:08 <czr> that wasn't the debugging I meant
Nov 27 22:31:11 <db48x> czr: because the runtime constraints for the page will stay the same
Nov 27 22:31:35 <czr> again. I'm not worried about page/script authors.
Nov 27 22:31:47 <timeless> czr: you're confused
Nov 27 22:31:57 <czr> of course. but that's another issue :-)
Nov 27 22:31:57 <timeless> debugging spidermonkey crashes already requires an expert
Nov 27 22:32:02 <timeless> n has at most one such person (me)
Nov 27 22:32:08 <czr> and you plan to make it harder still?
Nov 27 22:32:11 <timeless> there are not more than 2 dozen such people world wide
Nov 27 22:32:27 <timeless> the gecko side would not change under my proposal
Nov 27 22:32:32 <timeless> since it's still single threaded
Nov 27 22:32:38 <czr> ah
Nov 27 22:32:42 <czr> I got that bit wrong then
Nov 27 22:32:44 <alterego> czr, this is what I've been playing with for the past 5 hours ^_^: http://alterego.freeshell.org/tablet_home_20071127-223309.png
Nov 27 22:32:49 <timeless> all that changes is that js *only* on other threads
Nov 27 22:32:57 <timeless> and must proxy to get objects from the ui thread
Nov 27 22:33:08 <timeless> it's a perf penalty on dom objects
Nov 27 22:33:47 <timeless> it might be possible to offer some optimization where you can somehow get special access to a window's objects for a time period
Nov 27 22:33:47 <czr> alterego, what is?
Nov 27 22:33:52 <czr> alterego, the theme? you made it?
Nov 27 22:33:53 <timeless> that'd be annoying and require a lot of work
Nov 27 22:34:00 <alterego> czr, yeah
Nov 27 22:34:03 <timeless> the basic impl would require 100% proxying for dom objects
Nov 27 22:34:13 <alterego> czr, and a bunch-o-scripts to help create more.
Nov 27 22:34:15 <db48x> yea, that would be a lot of work
Nov 27 22:34:24 <czr> alterego, ah nice. documentation on how to use them too? :-)
Nov 27 22:34:29 <timeless> db48x: anyway, i think my script world proposal isn't so bad
Nov 27 22:34:41 <timeless> the only fun part is making sure to properly connect script worlds
Nov 27 22:34:48 <alterego> czr, Self documenting :P
Nov 27 22:35:00 <czr> alterego, you write it in COBOL? :-)
Nov 27 22:35:28 <db48x> alterego: I like it
Nov 27 22:35:39 <timeless> dbd48x: i think actually that script world connection is trivial
Nov 27 22:35:40 <db48x> good choice of background image
Nov 27 22:35:57 <timeless> generally if a script opens a window, the new window is forced to share the existing script world
Nov 27 22:36:05 <timeless> and if a user opens a window, it gets its own script world
Nov 27 22:36:08 <db48x> yea
Nov 27 22:36:13 <alterego> db48x, thanks
Nov 27 22:36:18 <timeless> the fun connecting case
Nov 27 22:36:22 <alterego> czr, yeah .. Cobol .. pfft :P
Nov 27 22:36:25 <timeless> is if you do <a target=b href=c>
Nov 27 22:36:34 <timeless> and b lands insdie a different script world
Nov 27 22:36:39 <timeless> bz might suggest banning that case
Nov 27 22:36:43 <timeless> and i'm fine w/ that :)
Nov 27 22:36:49 <db48x> isn't it already banned?
Nov 27 22:36:51 <czr> alterego, yeah, nice pic. too much contrast for regular desktop use, but since the device desktop is not regular, it's nice
Nov 27 22:36:54 <timeless> it might be
Nov 27 22:36:58 <timeless> i'mnot following everything
Nov 27 22:37:02 <db48x> that is, different domains have different namespaces for the target property
Nov 27 22:37:05 <timeless> anyway, the other case is divorces
Nov 27 22:37:12 <timeless> db48x: same domain
Nov 27 22:37:21 <timeless> load google.com in one window
Nov 27 22:37:31 <timeless> open a new window
Nov 27 22:37:33 <alterego> czr, yeah. Looks sweet on the device. When I've finished the whole theme. (Probably a week or so) I'll point you to a one click ;)
Nov 27 22:37:36 <timeless> load google.com into it
Nov 27 22:37:42 <db48x> oh, so the user opened two tabs to the same domain, and clicked the same link twice
Nov 27 22:37:46 <timeless> they now have two window,s w/ two script worlds
Nov 27 22:37:58 <czr> alterego, cool. I can take it for a sping then. chinook?
Nov 27 22:38:06 <alterego> Yeah
Nov 27 22:38:06 <timeless> something like that
Nov 27 22:38:17 <timeless> so far the two script worlds are "not connected"
Nov 27 22:38:23 <db48x> right
Nov 27 22:38:23 <timeless> which is correct, they should not "block" eachother
Nov 27 22:38:28 <alterego> czr, because of all the transparency ;)
Nov 27 22:38:30 <timeless> but if you <a target>
Nov 27 22:38:35 <timeless> then arguably they should "connect"
Nov 27 22:38:56 <timeless> which basically means one script world (running thread) dies
Nov 27 22:39:04 <czr> alterego, btw, why is your contacts above the browser icon? :-)
Nov 27 22:39:05 <db48x> probably instead of 'banning' that case, we'd just add another check to make it pretend it didn't find an existing window with that name
Nov 27 22:39:10 <timeless> it's an edge case, and a basic impl can simply ban it
Nov 27 22:39:22 <timeless> anyway, the last bits are divorces
Nov 27 22:39:24 <alterego> czr, having said that. These scripts might be nice for the OS2006/770 guys. As it can generate a theme (mix in their desktop image) to give the illusion of transparency.
Nov 27 22:39:28 <timeless> user loads a new page in the top level frame
Nov 27 22:39:31 <timeless> that divorces it
Nov 27 22:39:46 <db48x> or just kills it off and creates a new one
Nov 27 22:39:46 <alterego> czr, aesthetics. Circles are natural centre points ;)
Nov 27 22:39:51 <timeless> the other case is if the user loads a *different* site into an iframe
Nov 27 22:39:58 <timeless> db48x: steps:
Nov 27 22:40:00 <timeless> 1. load google.com
Nov 27 22:40:07 <timeless> 2. click link that opens a new google.com window (script link)
Nov 27 22:40:12 <timeless> that's 2 windows, 1 script-world
Nov 27 22:40:19 <timeless> 3. click a bookmark in one of those windows
Nov 27 22:40:30 <db48x> czr: that's configurable
Nov 27 22:40:31 <timeless> - that needs to create  anew script world for that window
Nov 27 22:40:35 <alterego> czr, it's like .. ~~ People are looking at Earth, un-aware that there's a colourful Borg ship about to destroy it ~~ It's a story see :)
Nov 27 22:40:50 <timeless> yeah, it's actually a trivial operation (new script-world, point to it)
Nov 27 22:40:53 <czr> alterego, heh
Nov 27 22:41:00 <timeless> top level loads should always replace the script world pointer
Nov 27 22:41:03 <czr> db48x, where?
Nov 27 22:41:07 <timeless> and if a script world reaches 0. goodbye :)
Nov 27 22:41:12 <db48x> czr: in the control panel
Nov 27 22:41:15 <alterego> czr, panels under control panel.
Nov 27 22:41:23 <czr> ah.
Nov 27 22:41:26 <db48x> timeless: yea
Nov 27 22:41:28 <alterego> czr, if you look at the bottom of the dialog there's arrows to position them.
Nov 27 22:41:32 <czr> maybe I should try poking around the device one of these days :-)
Nov 27 22:41:37 <czr> I still don't use these things for anything :-)
Nov 27 22:41:40 <timeless> db48x: anyway, that's pretty much it
Nov 27 22:41:59 <timeless> there's a minor requirement for dealing w/ temporary merges between <xul> and window.content
Nov 27 22:42:08 <timeless> but practically speaking, that's not such a big deal
Nov 27 22:42:11 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 22:42:29 <timeless> if a xul window pokes window.content, then the content script-world is blocked until the xul script finishes
Nov 27 22:42:43 <timeless> (deterministic for a single execution of script)
Nov 27 22:42:59 <timeless> as soon as the script finishes running, the content script world is unblocked
Nov 27 22:43:09 <timeless> note, that's fairly easy to do w/ jsapi
Nov 27 22:43:16 <db48x> unless the xul script changes the content's dom
Nov 27 22:43:27 <timeless> hrm
Nov 27 22:43:37 <timeless> because the script in content might object?
Nov 27 22:43:46 * alterego wonders what a tablet OS would be like with XUL instead of Gtk+ ..
Nov 27 22:43:46 <db48x> yea, or nodes might turn up missing
Nov 27 22:43:55 * timeless ponders
Nov 27 22:44:06 <fysa> memory hungry ;)
Nov 27 22:44:06 <timeless> well, you have two choices
Nov 27 22:44:10 <timeless> either xul waits (bad)
Nov 27 22:44:13 <db48x> like, the script got a reference to a node, and then the xul script removed it from the document
Nov 27 22:44:19 <alterego> A lot easier to theme ;)
Nov 27 22:44:22 <czr> timeless btw, you aware of any open source english language checking tools? stuff that would go beyond just crappy spellchecking.
Nov 27 22:44:24 <timeless> or xul is allowed to look, but touching results in content being killed
Nov 27 22:44:43 <timeless> czr: #foxymonkies and #macintosh work fairly well
Nov 27 22:44:45 <db48x> but I don't think we have any chrome that is invasive like that
Nov 27 22:45:01 <timeless> telnet irc.mozilla.ort 6697, speak enough irc to speak bad english
Nov 27 22:45:03 <czr> timeless, err, something that could be used in an automated fashion :-) doesn't need to be perfect.
Nov 27 22:45:04 <timeless> wait for correction :)
Nov 27 22:45:08 <czr> heh
Nov 27 22:45:09 <timeless> no
Nov 27 22:45:30 <timeless> but i know enough channels where people will correct your english
Nov 27 22:45:34 <timeless> (English)
Nov 27 22:45:42 * timeless normally spells English correctly
Nov 27 22:45:51 <geoffeg> So when I remove the charger from my N800 running OS2008 i get an alert that says "Disconnect charger from power supply to save energy." WHAT?
Nov 27 22:45:54 <timeless> db48x: ok, let's handle xul
Nov 27 22:46:01 <geoffeg> What the *$#@ does that mean?
Nov 27 22:46:02 <timeless> dom objects are again proxies
Nov 27 22:46:09 <timeless> first access results in an exception
Nov 27 22:46:13 <timeless> (write)
Nov 27 22:46:22 <db48x> geoffeg: the charger is still drawing power from the mains
Nov 27 22:46:26 <halley> geoff, unplug the wart from the wall
Nov 27 22:46:26 <timeless> second access results in the other running script being terminated
Nov 27 22:46:33 <db48x> all chargers work that way
Nov 27 22:46:37 <timeless> for the record, db48x is speaking en-GB
Nov 27 22:46:44 <geoffeg> db48x: oh.. wow.. and they  want me to save a little power.. nice
Nov 27 22:46:45 <timeless> "mains" is not valid en-US
Nov 27 22:47:54 <geoffeg> That should read "Save electricity: Unplug charger from power socket"
Nov 27 22:48:07 <doc|work> oh yeah, I put my n800 in to charge last night at about 11pm, at 7.30am it was still showing as charging
Nov 27 22:48:07 <db48x> I'd hesitate to start labelling bits of english as 'valid' or 'invalid'
Nov 27 22:48:16 <halley> Okay, how does one add their own app launch icons onto the homepage/desktop?
Nov 27 22:48:19 <db48x> geoffeg: yea, that would work better
Nov 27 22:48:19 <timeless> db48x: EUNRECOGNIZED
Nov 27 22:48:22 <db48x> timeless: heh
Nov 27 22:48:37 <guerby> kewl bluetooth headset works with N800+OS2008 (both listening and recording)
Nov 27 22:48:47 <guerby> one bugzilla down at last
Nov 27 22:48:49 <guerby> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474
Nov 27 22:48:55 <geoffeg> guerby: including using skype?
Nov 27 22:49:00 <doc|work> anyone had that?
Nov 27 22:49:22 <derf> I think the word you were looking for was "idiomatic".
Nov 27 22:49:26 <guerby> geoffeg, I don't use skype but if maemo recorder works I assume everything will work
Nov 27 22:49:41 <timeless> guerby: johan's responsible for that
Nov 27 22:49:45 <timeless> he should get around to resolving it
Nov 27 22:49:58 <timeless> guerby: if he doesn't, send him an email and ask
Nov 27 22:50:18 <guerby> timeless, is it for me?
Nov 27 22:50:23 <timeless> (give him 2weeks past the official 2008-n800 release, unless you think he should resolve based on 2008-n810)
Nov 27 22:50:39 <timeless> johan= https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=474#c13
Nov 27 22:51:01 <timeless> although, i wonder
Nov 27 22:51:06 <timeless> does it have HSP yet?
Nov 27 22:51:08 <guerby> timeless, as I commented there everything works super great :)
Nov 27 22:51:15 <timeless> if not, he might be keeping it open until it gets HSP
Nov 27 22:51:47 <guerby> timeless, ah ok don't know what HSP is, anyway I can check?
Nov 27 22:51:51 <timeless> certainly looks like bluez3.20 has some HSP
Nov 27 22:52:02 <halley> Okay, how does one add their own app launch icons onto the homepage/desktop?
Nov 27 22:52:30 <timeless> homepage?
Nov 27 22:52:30 <guerby> timeless, when I disconnected the bluetooth headset with the N800 OS2008 icon, the headset made a phone hang up noise :)
Nov 27 22:52:47 <timeless> guerby: http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/search?string=hsp&find=bluez
Nov 27 22:52:49 <timeless> (be patient)
Nov 27 22:54:39 <guerby> timeless, I just checked and 'Device detail' says Supported Profile: HSP when my BT headset is paired
Nov 27 22:55:22 <timeless> hrm
Nov 27 22:55:30 <timeless> actually, You'll see HSP support
Nov 27 22:55:30 <timeless> very soon and hopefully A2DP a little later
Nov 27 22:55:39 <timeless> so maybe the right question is about A2DP
Nov 27 22:56:10 <timeless> again, there's clearly /some/
Nov 27 22:56:13 <timeless> dunno how much
Nov 27 22:56:21 <timeless> it's really up to johan
Nov 27 22:56:29 <timeless> he is fairly responsive in bugzilla
Nov 27 22:56:30 <guerby> timeless, may be A2DP indeed. Sound is not bad already
Nov 27 22:56:34 <timeless> and knows what he's talking about
Nov 27 22:56:43 * timeless doesn't speak bluetooth
Nov 27 22:56:56 * timeless gladly leaves that to johan
Nov 27 22:57:00 <guerby> :)
Nov 27 22:57:08 <timeless> hrm
Nov 27 22:57:20 <timeless> db48x: is chat in the spreadsheet temporary?
Nov 27 22:58:51 <db48x> yea
Nov 27 22:58:57 <db48x> I had to close out and reload it
Nov 27 22:59:05 <db48x> and everything from before that point is gone
Nov 27 22:59:54 <killfill> hey..
Nov 27 23:00:07 <killfill> ukmp is missing "libbz2-2-1.0"
Nov 27 23:00:14 <killfill> where do i get this?.. :S
Nov 27 23:00:57 <pumpkin> bzip2
Nov 27 23:01:03 <pumpkin> bzip3 ftw
Nov 27 23:01:13 <killfill> ftw?
Nov 27 23:01:22 <pumpkin> for the wallaby
Nov 27 23:01:32 <pumpkin> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bzip2
Nov 27 23:02:34 <killfill> hm.. but i mean for os2008..
Nov 27 23:02:47 <timeless> _monkey ftw is for the win
Nov 27 23:02:48 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Nov 27 23:02:51 <czr> pumpkin, bzip3?
Nov 27 23:02:59 <pumpkin> almost as good as bzip4
Nov 27 23:03:12 * czr de-seeds pumpkin with a large trout
Nov 27 23:03:22 <czr> I actually thought that you were serious for a while there :-)
Nov 27 23:03:28 <pumpkin> :)
Nov 27 23:03:29 <kaltsi> killfill: it's in the sdk repo but that should not really be activated on the device..
Nov 27 23:03:43 <killfill> sdk.. hm...
Nov 27 23:03:52 <pumpkin> btw, why exactly does it claim the world will explode if I install bash on  my n800?
Nov 27 23:03:55 <derf> Now that the arithmetic encoding patents have expired, you could do a lot better than bzip2.
Nov 27 23:04:19 <kaltsi> it also means that konttori has been a bit lazy by not uploading that dependency to the extras repository :(
Nov 27 23:04:25 <killfill> kaltsi: well i just tried to install ukmp.. :S
Nov 27 23:04:53 <kaltsi> killfill: yes from the extras repository? repository.maemo.org/extras , the sdk is without the /extras.. not very clear :)
Nov 27 23:04:58 <czr> derf, not that much better actually.
Nov 27 23:05:15 <pumpkin> well closer to the fundamental limit :P
Nov 27 23:05:16 <kaltsi> pumpkin: because bash will want to replace busybox and all the world depends on busybox
Nov 27 23:05:26 <derf> czr: We know a lot more about the BWT now, too.
Nov 27 23:05:28 <czr> using rzip is normally already much better than just plain gzip2
Nov 27 23:05:42 <pumpkin> kaltsi: can't they just coexist peacefully? it's just a shell, isn't it?
Nov 27 23:05:55 <czr> derf, true. although I don't. I still remember the color pictures of BWT in dr dobbs when BWT was first published :-)
Nov 27 23:05:58 <killfill> hm..
Nov 27 23:06:06 <kaltsi> pumpkin: in a perfect non-destructible world yes :)
Nov 27 23:06:10 <killfill> i guess bzip should be on the main repo.. :P
Nov 27 23:06:16 * killfill adding the other repo by hand
Nov 27 23:06:18 <pumpkin> hmm
Nov 27 23:06:27 <pumpkin> so how does it blow the world up, kaltsi ?
Nov 27 23:06:34 <pumpkin> I mean, doesn't it just add /bin/bash to the device?
Nov 27 23:06:41 <kaltsi> first slowly and then quite fast.. dunno
Nov 27 23:06:51 <pumpkin> or if the package has crazy requirements, can't they just be relaxed?
Nov 27 23:07:05 <kaltsi> well it will remove everything like the hildon desktop and stuff before installing bash.. and then not reinstall the other stuff
Nov 27 23:07:27 <derf> Actually, I haven't really looked at plain text compression since 2002, 2003.
Nov 27 23:07:33 <derf> I wonder what's been going on.
Nov 27 23:07:35 <pumpkin> hmm
Nov 27 23:07:46 <pumpkin> but that seems like a package limitation, kaltsi
Nov 27 23:07:54 <kaltsi> pumpkin: yes certainly.. it's solvable
Nov 27 23:07:56 <pumpkin> not an inherent property of /bin/bash being present on your flash
Nov 27 23:07:57 <pumpkin> ah ok
Nov 27 23:08:02 <db48x> hooray for package dependancies
Nov 27 23:08:03 <bill20r3> bz2 is good, there's stuff that's slightly better, but nothing widely used.
Nov 27 23:08:15 <czr> bill20r3, rzip and lrzip
Nov 27 23:08:22 <czr> and many others as well
Nov 27 23:08:33 <czr> although lrzip has stability issues with large datasets ;-)
Nov 27 23:08:39 <czr> so you might not want to use it for everything
Nov 27 23:09:06 <bill20r3>  yeah, I dont consider those "widely used" , but that's just me.
Nov 27 23:09:13 <bill20r3> how much better than bz2 are they?
Nov 27 23:09:22 <timeless> doh
Nov 27 23:09:32 <timeless> turns out i actually got an Nb translation!
Nov 27 23:09:42 <kaltsi> what's Nb?
Nov 27 23:09:43 <czr> depends on data set. lzrip basically gains from using huge windows and lzma over rzip. rzip gains from very large windows only (rsync-algo internally first, then bzip2)
Nov 27 23:09:53 <timeless> we misspell it "no-NO"
Nov 27 23:09:55 <timeless> because we're idiots
Nov 27 23:10:00 <timeless> it's nb-NO
Nov 27 23:10:11 <kaltsi> hmp
Nov 27 23:10:15 <czr> bill20r3, http://koltsoff.com/pub/compressor-comparison.xhtml   some comparison data from some months ago
Nov 27 23:10:15 <bill20r3> ahh.  so like for multi-gig files?
Nov 27 23:10:25 <czr> bill20r3, my priority was working with virtual machine images
Nov 27 23:10:34 <czr> bill20r3, and finding something that wasn't too slow mainly
Nov 27 23:10:35 <bill20r3> ahh.
Nov 27 23:10:53 <bill20r3> I looke around a little a few months ago.  our mail server logs are like 6g/day.
Nov 27 23:10:54 <czr> lrzip is not included since it had stability issues, but rzip and some others are
Nov 27 23:11:06 <timeless> anyway, it turns out my machined translation of Nb was only off by one character
Nov 27 23:11:18 <czr> probably for text files bzip2 is good enough, could be better though
Nov 27 23:11:25 <czr> but for large binary sets rzip should win
Nov 27 23:11:47 <db48x> oops, xml parsing error
Nov 27 23:11:59 <bill20r3> wow, rzip is *way* tighter.
Nov 27 23:12:08 <czr> bill20r3, ended up developing my own format for that project in the end. didn't find anything useful :-)
Nov 27 23:12:13 <bill20r3> at least on that dataset.
Nov 27 23:12:22 <czr> yes. the dataset is 100+ virtual machine images
Nov 27 23:12:27 <czr> so some structure is inherent in it
Nov 27 23:12:44 <pumpkin> how well does it compress /dev/random? :P
Nov 27 23:12:48 <czr> text would be more difficult for rzip to optimize over, since the rsync algo isn't byte-precise
Nov 27 23:12:54 <czr> pumpkin, 50%!
Nov 27 23:13:00 <pumpkin> oh my!
Nov 27 23:13:19 <pumpkin> I need it to fit into one byte, unfortunately
Nov 27 23:13:33 <kaltsi> use lossy compression
Nov 27 23:13:36 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 23:13:37 <bill20r3> do the 'virtual machine images' include large blocks of possibly-empty disk space?
Nov 27 23:13:37 <pumpkin> ah, well, I'll wait for better compression to come along
Nov 27 23:13:52 <db48x> dev/random compresses very well
Nov 27 23:14:00 <db48x> all you need to record are the initial conditions
Nov 27 23:14:07 <czr> bill20r3, not really, all images are sparse (do not include too much zero)
Nov 27 23:14:17 <bill20r3> pumpkin, you can only get that kind of compression ratio with write-only compression schemes.
Nov 27 23:14:17 <derf> db48x: You must be thinking /dev/urandom
Nov 27 23:14:19 <czr> bill20r3, there's some, but not much.
Nov 27 23:14:26 <pumpkin> lol
Nov 27 23:14:40 <db48x> derf: perhaps
Nov 27 23:14:48 <bill20r3> they're a touch on the lossy side.
Nov 27 23:14:53 <bill20r3> ok, I'm out.
Nov 27 23:15:03 <derf> /dev/random is supposed to continually inject sources of actual entropy before it will give you more data.
Nov 27 23:15:05 <czr> nah. initial conditions = position and energy of all particles in the universe at the moment that compressing starts
Nov 27 23:15:23 <czr> so it's pretty trivial. takes a lot of space, but .. :-)
Nov 27 23:15:26 <derf> czr: I'm just guessing here, but I think recording that would take a lot of space.
Nov 27 23:15:31 <bill20r3> that'd be read-only compression.
Nov 27 23:15:53 <czr> derf, plus there'd be the issue of the state containing the result eventually as well..
Nov 27 23:15:57 <derf> That's not my definition of "compresses very well".
Nov 27 23:16:00 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 23:16:41 * alterego starts crying at the wasted screen estate he finds.
Nov 27 23:16:48 <alterego> 10x720 pixels wasted!
Nov 27 23:16:51 <sp3000> oh, yeah, I should flash something, shouldn't I
Nov 27 23:16:57 <alterego> That's a line of _very_ small text!
Nov 27 23:17:09 <timeless> sp3000: hey, last call for alkohol
Nov 27 23:17:11 <db48x> alterego: plus the two columns down either side
Nov 27 23:17:16 <timeless> if you want any more changes to fi, now's your chance
Nov 27 23:17:19 <timeless> finalizing...
Nov 27 23:17:27 <czr> timeless, you still wasting time on that fi-blurb? :-)
Nov 27 23:17:38 <timeless> i'm copying the blurbs into the files now
Nov 27 23:17:46 <czr> ah. my mistake :-)
Nov 27 23:18:19 <pupnik> if any of you have some money to invest in speakers, check these out
Nov 27 23:18:21 <pupnik> http://www.vmpseurope.com/reviews.htm  VMPS speaker reviews....
Nov 27 23:18:25 <czr> hmm. anyone know what's the shortest url to refer to a specific patch in sf.net?
Nov 27 23:18:28 <pupnik> i love them
Nov 27 23:18:42 <pupnik> qurl?
Nov 27 23:18:51 <czr> needs to be stable
Nov 27 23:20:23 * timeless rotfl
Nov 27 23:20:26 <timeless> this rocks.
Nov 27 23:21:08 <sp3000> czr: so do you prefer etenee hitaasti or kestää pitkään/kauan
Nov 27 23:21:28 <czr> both preferred for obvious reasons, but depends on the woman in question normally.
Nov 27 23:21:33 * czr hides
Nov 27 23:21:39 <czr> sp3000, what's the full version you have now?
Nov 27 23:21:48 <czr> etenee hitaasti is more optimistic
Nov 27 23:21:57 <sp3000> Tällä sivulla oleva komentojono on jumiutunut tai sen suoritus etenee hitaasti. Voit pysäyttää komentojonon valitsemalla OK tai jatkaa odottamista valitsemalla Peruuta.
Nov 27 23:22:08 <czr> O
Nov 27 23:22:11 <db48x> timeless: 'that's a "fine and understandable" translation' reports my cousin, in re the russian translation
Nov 27 23:22:12 <czr> I'm fine with that
Nov 27 23:22:15 <sp3000> k
Nov 27 23:22:37 <czr> kestaa pitkaan is some form of swedisism, I'm pretty sure.
Nov 27 23:22:44 <sp3000> timeless: I guess it's as fine as it'll gets. it's a bit different because I sure don't know how to express the line is taken and the script won't answer the phone thing ;)
Nov 27 23:22:58 <timeless> http://podcastdownload.npr.org/anon.npr-podcasts/podcast/510019/6923215/npr_6923215.mp3
Nov 27 23:23:09 <sp3000> so it's stuck or taking a long time to complete, instead
Nov 27 23:23:19 <timeless> jump to around 30mins into that podcast
Nov 27 23:23:20 <db48x> timeless: though the party of the third part isn't around any longer to comment further, as he has now gone to bed
Nov 27 23:23:23 <sp3000> which will fly or won't
Nov 27 23:23:33 <timeless> every 90s or so into that stream you'll hear the announcer speaking
Nov 27 23:23:34 <db48x> something about timezones and 'nighttime', not sure that was translated properly
Nov 27 23:23:49 <timeless> because that was the best arrangement they could get w/ sony bmg
Nov 27 23:24:08 <sp3000> the other part is s/komentotiedosto/komentojono/ (command file vs command sequence, so to speak)
Nov 27 23:24:21 <timeless> db48x?
Nov 27 23:24:22 <_Monkey> i think db48x is the one who can't edit his
Nov 27 23:24:37 <db48x> I'm perfectly capable of editing my
Nov 27 23:25:03 <db48x> timeless: my cousin doesn't trust her fluency, so she asked a friend who is russian
Nov 27 23:25:03 <sp3000> can I edit yours too?
Nov 27 23:25:03 <kaltsi> the internet said you aren't.. now who are we going to believe?
Nov 27 23:25:15 <halley> I think maemo.org is the slowest domain on the planet.
Nov 27 23:25:38 <db48x> halley: from all the way out there, they're probably all pretty slow
Nov 27 23:25:45 <db48x> sp3000: sure! :)
Nov 27 23:25:54 <timeless> db48x: i'm losing stuff in this scrollback, stick things into the chat view?
Nov 27 23:26:02 <sp3000> hmm, rhythmbox thinks backup.metadata on the N800 is a playlist
Nov 27 23:26:15 * alterego yawns.
Nov 27 23:26:23 <timeless> sp3000: yum
Nov 27 23:26:27 <timeless> ~sounds~ nice
Nov 27 23:26:29 <czr> sp3000, it's an advanced media player
Nov 27 23:26:34 <czr> hah timeless
Nov 27 23:26:38 <sp3000> sounds empty :)
Nov 27 23:26:59 <czr> in the void of N800, will anyone hear if rhythmbox plays a metadata file?
Nov 27 23:27:00 <halley> You can't swing a dead n770 without hitting three "media player apps."
Nov 27 23:27:31 <GeneralAntilles> What is this "n770" you speak of? :P
Nov 27 23:27:43 <czr> short for "not N770"
Nov 27 23:28:57 <halley> GeneralAntilles, you know anything about maemocjk.garage?  And hildon's plans for japanese input?
Nov 27 23:29:07 <GeneralAntilles> No, why would I? :)
Nov 27 23:29:15 <alterego> I can really screw around with the themes ..
Nov 27 23:29:21 <halley> Dunno, you seemed to know everything else last night.
Nov 27 23:29:25 <GeneralAntilles> I'm limited to English and just a touch of Spanish. :)
Nov 27 23:29:26 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Nov 27 23:29:32 <alterego> I can make my theme resizable me thinks ..
Nov 27 23:29:38 <alterego> Maybe also take up less room.
Nov 27 23:29:52 <GeneralAntilles> Well, thanks, but that knowledge doesn't extend to foreign languages and whatnot. Sorry. :)
Nov 27 23:30:22 <czr> alterego, push it out of the window to leave more room in the room? ;-)
Nov 27 23:30:56 <alterego> :)
Nov 27 23:31:10 <GeneralAntilles> It can join my bluetooth keyboard!
Nov 27 23:31:34 <czr> GeneralAntilles, small bt generals will result of that?
Nov 27 23:31:49 <alterego> I'm thinking make the application title bar smaller.
Nov 27 23:32:22 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds like a plan.
Nov 27 23:32:33 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe put together a number of options for it, too?
Nov 27 23:33:03 <alterego> Actually I'm just going to trim out the useless 10x720px in my theme for now.
Nov 27 23:33:09 <alterego> Don't want to go _over_ board ..
Nov 27 23:33:43 <halley> alterego, is there a howto for making themes?  or just hack one open and replace/edit?
Nov 27 23:33:49 <alterego> That's insane .. It actually worked ^_^
Nov 27 23:34:34 <alterego> halley, I'm hacking one open and editing it. Quite drastically in fact. I'm also righting various scripts to help create themes so if you wait a week or two you might be able to use what I'm working on now :)
Nov 27 23:34:57 <alterego> s/righting/writing/
Nov 27 23:34:58 <infobot> alterego meant: halley, I'm hacking one open and editing it. Quite drastically in fact. I'm also writing various scripts to help create themes so if you wait a week or two you might be able to use what I'm working on now :)
Nov 27 23:35:05 <alterego> fucking infobot ..
Nov 27 23:35:47 <czr> yeah, that is irritating
Nov 27 23:38:13 <alterego> What would be useful is some kind of WYSIWYG editor for this stuff. Or a plugin for the GIMP that auto-generates a screenshot like my script does. So you can keep track of what it'll look like through the preview.
Nov 27 23:40:05 <timeless> dear world, the fruits of your labor can be found at:
Nov 27 23:40:05 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/mozilla/trunk/microb-l10n/l10n2/fi/locale/fi/global/dom/dom.properties#38
Nov 27 23:42:01 <czr> yay. finally got the patch into ubuntu. bleh for reportbug not supporting broken MTAs ;-)
Nov 27 23:42:08 <alterego> Some of these numbers are botched.
Nov 27 23:42:25 <alterego> That explains this odd 12x50 pixel area that has no use but to look ugly.
Nov 27 23:42:36 <lopz> hola
Nov 27 23:45:31 <czr> hmm. submitting a one line patch shouldn't take 1,5 hours.
Nov 27 23:45:41 * czr blames alterego for the distractions
Nov 27 23:45:54 <timeless> ok... anyone want to play a fun game?
Nov 27 23:46:10 <doc|work> once again, no, now put your pants back on.
Nov 27 23:46:12 <pupnik> is it ...
Nov 27 23:46:24 <timeless> sp3000: do you remember where the home page lives?
Nov 27 23:46:26 <alterego> Hahah
Nov 27 23:47:07 <czr> heh
Nov 27 23:47:18 <czr> reminds me of one xkcd, let me dig for it
Nov 27 23:47:25 <timeless> doh
Nov 27 23:47:29 <timeless> it's in a private file
Nov 27 23:47:39 <alterego> Oh, that's pretty. I've now shaved off 10x720 pixel area and everything looks perfect.
Nov 27 23:47:40 <timeless> ok, so... anyone want to play a fun game?
Nov 27 23:47:45 <alterego> I wonder what it was there for.
Nov 27 23:47:57 <timeless> it requires tablet-browser-ui
Nov 27 23:48:20 <alterego> Actually, I know what it was there but it's not required in my theme me thinks.
Nov 27 23:48:44 * timeless ponders
Nov 27 23:48:44 <czr> http://xkcd.com/330/
Nov 27 23:48:45 <timeless> actually
Nov 27 23:48:56 <timeless> is the only thing that changes on the google page the logo?
Nov 27 23:50:25 <db48x> timeless: what game is that?
Nov 27 23:51:10 <timeless> db48x: figuring out what changes are necessary to make the home page look "localized"
Nov 27 23:51:27 <timeless> i've thought about it a bit
Nov 27 23:51:32 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 23:51:37 <timeless> and i think the answer is that it's *just* the powered by logo
Nov 27 23:51:47 <timeless> and the cool thing is, i got that translated a few weeks ago
Nov 27 23:51:48 <doc|work> czr: heh
Nov 27 23:51:48 <db48x> with all those layers between main() and gecko?
Nov 27 23:52:10 <timeless> the uncool part is that i don't think anyone converted them from psd to png(?)
Nov 27 23:52:18 <timeless> and i don't know how to magically use "the right file"
Nov 27 23:52:35 <db48x> oh, you mean just by swapping out the logo on the startup page
Nov 27 23:52:39 <timeless> yeah
Nov 27 23:52:42 <db48x> rather than changing which page gets loaded
Nov 27 23:52:47 <shacka1> why once I installed a program under a menu section, it keeps reinstalling under that section without asking me anymore ?
Nov 27 23:52:54 <timeless> db48x: i could do either
Nov 27 23:52:58 <db48x> does it load a chrome url or something?
Nov 27 23:53:23 <timeless> it's more evil than that
Nov 27 23:53:30 <db48x> if so you can put the images into the locales and reference it by their chrome url
Nov 27 23:53:33 <timeless> it loads a file path and lies
Nov 27 23:53:35 <db48x> make gecko do the real work
Nov 27 23:53:39 <timeless> hrm
Nov 27 23:53:40 <timeless> wait
Nov 27 23:53:42 <timeless> you're right
Nov 27 23:53:47 <timeless> we do theoretically have chrome support
Nov 27 23:54:22 <timeless> but.. i don't know what "app" we have
Nov 27 23:54:29 <db48x> what do you mean?
Nov 27 23:54:33 * czr reminds himself _never_ again to press ctrl+enter when multiple emails are selected simultanously in thunderbird
Nov 27 23:54:41 <db48x> czr: heh, yea
Nov 27 23:54:45 <czr> multiple times too
Nov 27 23:54:47 <czr> "duh"
Nov 27 23:54:54 * db48x laughs
Nov 27 23:56:39 <timeless> db48x: ok, you're right
Nov 27 23:56:41 <timeless> this is trivial
Nov 27 23:56:45 <timeless> if i had root anyway
Nov 27 23:56:47 * timeless cries
Nov 27 23:56:51 <db48x> cool
Nov 27 23:56:51 <db48x> heh
Nov 27 23:56:52 <timeless> db48x, can you try this?
Nov 27 23:56:58 <timeless> take a random picture
Nov 27 23:57:00 <timeless> stick it in
Nov 27 23:57:01 <db48x> yea, I suppose
Nov 27 23:57:11 * db48x hunts for a stylus
Nov 27 23:57:19 <doc|work> would the n800 hardware allow for the charging icon to show a charge level?
Nov 27 23:57:31 <timeless> /usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/en-US/locale/branding/
Nov 27 23:57:42 <timeless> load chrome://branding/locale/foo.png
Nov 27 23:57:45 <timeless> it shoudl load
Nov 27 23:57:50 <alterego> Yeah .. These numbers don't add up ..
Nov 27 23:57:54 <halley> Is there an apt or dpkg command that will print all the dependencies for a given dpkg?
Nov 27 23:58:43 <alterego> dpkg?
Nov 27 23:58:57 <inz> halley, do you mean an installed package, a package in repo or a local file?
Nov 27 23:59:00 <timeless> apt-cache show ?
Nov 27 23:59:08 <timeless> oh for a .deb
Nov 27 23:59:42 <inz> apt-cache show should work for packages in repos and those installed
Nov 27 23:59:43 <timeless> dpkg -f
Nov 27 23:59:44 <alterego> So .. Matchbox is the reason I don't have transparency in my application title bar O_O
Nov 27 23:59:52 <timeless>               dpkg -f | --field  filename [control-field] ...
Nov 27 23:59:52 <timeless>                   Display control field(s) of a package.
Nov 28 00:00:14 <timeless> dpkg -f depends foop.deb
Nov 28 00:00:47 <czr> s/fo/po/
Nov 28 00:00:58 <inz> timeless, read again, it's dpkg -f foop.deb Depends
Nov 28 00:01:05 <killfill> jees. so many users does maemo have?.. the bandwith is still low.. :S
Nov 28 00:01:15 <timeless> inz: yeah, i was just getting there
Nov 28 00:01:39 <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ dpkg -f apt/apt-doc_0.6.43.3nexenta3_all.deb Depends|wc -l
Nov 28 00:01:39 <timeless> 0
Nov 28 00:01:43 <timeless> docs don't seem to have depends
Nov 28 00:01:51 <inz> surprise?
Nov 28 00:01:59 <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ dpkg -f apt/apt-utils_0.6.43.3nexenta3_solaris-i386.deb Depends
Nov 28 00:01:59 <timeless> libapt-pkg--3.11, libdb4.3 (>= 4.3.28-1), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.0.2), libstdc++6 (>= 4.0.2-4), sunwcslr, sunwlibm
Nov 28 00:02:18 <db48x> wtf
Nov 28 00:02:21 * alterego contemplates removing the close minimize buttons and making the statusbar bigger.
Nov 28 00:02:22 <fysa> alterego: while you're at it, can you put the taskbar icons closer together so we can fit one more in there?  and make the a vkb like the stylus vkb but with slightly larger buttons, so we can thumbkey and see what we're doing? :)
Nov 28 00:02:36 <db48x> cp: cannot remove '/usr/lib/microb-engine/chrome/en-US/locale/branding/Screenshot-129.png': No such file or directory
Nov 28 00:02:40 <timeless> inz: while you're being helpful
Nov 28 00:02:47 <fysa> ;)
Nov 28 00:02:54 <timeless> where is the browser's homepage on the device? :)
Nov 28 00:02:57 <alterego> You know .. I'm going to remove the close minimize buttons.
Nov 28 00:03:01 <alterego> They're kind of useless.
Nov 28 00:03:05 <timeless> or does db48x need to use find/strace? :)
Nov 28 00:03:16 <shacka1> does the os2008 player do video over upnp ?
Nov 28 00:03:26 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, shacka1.
Nov 28 00:03:34 <alterego> I only use minimize when I expect to go home. Which never works so I just hold the home key now.
Nov 28 00:03:40 <inz> timeless, /usr/share/browser/home_page/index.html sounds right
Nov 28 00:03:46 <shacka1> GeneralAntilles: thanks
Nov 28 00:03:47 <alterego> Maybe I'll keep the close button ..
Nov 28 00:04:06 <timeless> ah /usr/share/browser/home_page
Nov 28 00:04:06 <GeneralAntilles> Close is probably useful.
Nov 28 00:04:06 <shacka1> GeneralAntilles: maybe I have to configure gmediaserver then, because it doesn't see it
Nov 28 00:04:11 <fysa> can you change the functionality of the buttons, alter?
Nov 28 00:04:12 <GeneralAntilles> I find myself using them both fairly often
Nov 28 00:04:18 <fysa> or just remove?
Nov 28 00:04:21 <GeneralAntilles> but I could change my habits if it meant more toolbar room.
Nov 28 00:04:34 <fysa> i.e., one button with tap to minimize, double-tab to close?
Nov 28 00:04:36 <timeless> db48x: ok, and try changing that file when you're done :)
Nov 28 00:04:46 <fysa> (or hold to close)
Nov 28 00:04:56 <db48x> also, why in the world doesn't copy work in the xterm
Nov 28 00:05:08 <GeneralAntilles> Because xterm is crappy and broken. :P
Nov 28 00:05:23 <alterego> fysa, to a certain extent they are standard matchbox functions me thinks ..
Nov 28 00:05:33 <timeless> anyone here have photoshop?
Nov 28 00:05:34 <halley> timeless, not a .deb I have, but a package I *want*; I want to see the dependencies before I actually install.
Nov 28 00:05:39 <db48x> ok, it worked as root
Nov 28 00:05:44 <db48x> it was just a weird error message
Nov 28 00:05:55 <timeless> halley: apt-cache depends foopy
Nov 28 00:06:00 * alterego laughs at everyone with they're small application areas :P
Nov 28 00:06:11 <timeless> s/they're/their/
Nov 28 00:06:16 * GeneralAntilles laughs at alterego's bad grammar. :P
Nov 28 00:06:16 <fysa> screenshot
Nov 28 00:06:17 <fysa> ?
Nov 28 00:06:45 <halley> timeless, thanks; and kick that timelyx guy outta here, he's screwing up my nick completes ;)
Nov 28 00:06:51 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, it's late ..
Nov 28 00:07:12 <alterego> That's the second time in two days I've used "they're" instead of "there" though ..
Nov 28 00:07:26 <timeless> halley: that's me
Nov 28 00:07:28 <timeless> i respond to both
Nov 28 00:07:30 <halley> IRC is rotting your brain.
Nov 28 00:07:36 <alterego> I'll post another screen shot when I've finished my buttons.
Nov 28 00:07:38 <GeneralAntilles> Take the easy way out, and blame it on muscle memory.
Nov 28 00:07:47 <halley> timeless, I guessed as much.
Nov 28 00:07:47 <db48x> timeless: it either can't load the chrome url, or the image I randomly picked is too large
Nov 28 00:08:15 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, bit of a weird bug with a new browser window on default homescreen. The search box is selected and the I-beam is flashing, but (without doing anything else first) a press on the center d-pad loads google.com rather than bringing up the thumbboard.
Nov 28 00:08:55 <timeless> heh
Nov 28 00:09:11 <timeless> no
Nov 28 00:09:17 <timeless> it's not loading google.com
Nov 28 00:09:22 <timeless> it's submitting your empty form
Nov 28 00:09:32 <timeless> and that's *someone's* stupid idea of a feature
Nov 28 00:09:40 <fysa> mplayer is considerably smoother when I run from shell instead of gmplayer.
Nov 28 00:09:42 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome
Nov 28 00:09:46 <timeless> the middle button has a number of conflicting behaviors
Nov 28 00:09:50 <timeless> one of them is <enter>
Nov 28 00:09:55 <GeneralAntilles> That's rather irritating.
Nov 28 00:09:57 <timeless> and <enter> in an <input> = submit
Nov 28 00:10:07 <db48x> timeless: looks like chrome urls simply never load
Nov 28 00:10:13 <timeless> db48x: you sure?
Nov 28 00:10:15 <GeneralAntilles> Especially as the input is selected and flashing.
Nov 28 00:10:15 <db48x> the progress meter just spins
Nov 28 00:10:29 <timeless> chrome://branding/locale/brand.dtd wfm
Nov 28 00:10:38 <db48x> hmm
Nov 28 00:10:58 <timeless> (not a very useful page, but....)
Nov 28 00:11:14 <timeless> actually, it lies a number of times
Nov 28 00:11:26 <db48x> ah, heh
Nov 28 00:11:29 <timeless> claiming it's size 0, or latin
Nov 28 00:11:37 <timeless> but it's >0, not text/html, and utf8
Nov 28 00:11:43 <db48x> I was trying to open chrome://locale/branding/…
Nov 28 00:11:54 <timeless> ah yes, you're rustier than i am :)
Nov 28 00:12:02 <fysa> man no kidding
Nov 28 00:12:04 <timeless> and i haven't done this stuff in longer than the last time you did it
Nov 28 00:12:06 <db48x> or just more tired
Nov 28 00:12:13 <timeless> doubtful l-b
Nov 28 00:12:17 <db48x> since the last time I did it was like last week :P
Nov 28 00:12:21 <sp3000> hrmpf. my charger lead is being flaky
Nov 28 00:12:25 <fysa> the -benchmark argument is hardcoded into gmplauncher
Nov 28 00:12:26 <timeless> heh
Nov 28 00:12:33 <timeless> sp3000: don't suppose you have photoshop?
Nov 28 00:12:44 <sp3000> gimp does psh unless it's fancy
Nov 28 00:12:47 <sp3000> psd even
Nov 28 00:13:56 <timeless> if i sent you a psd, could you merge the psd over the stupid gray background of the microb start page?
Nov 28 00:14:04 <timeless> (merge=delete current stuff and replace w/ each locale)
Nov 28 00:14:08 <sp3000> mossibly
Nov 28 00:14:12 <sp3000> possibly even
Nov 28 00:14:33 <halley> gimp does photoshop5.5 psd, but no "effects" layers
Nov 28 00:14:51 <timeless> sent to gmail
Nov 28 00:15:03 <timeless> i presume you have the microb start page :)
Nov 28 00:15:15 <timeless> if not, i can send you the image (but you can get it from anyone else here...)
Nov 28 00:15:19 <halley> If you're trying to be OSS, you should offer .xcf file templates, or PNG layers.
Nov 28 00:15:35 <timeless> halley: it's a scaled thing
Nov 28 00:15:40 <timeless> so png layers is definitely wrong
Nov 28 00:15:49 <timeless> as for xcf, i don't know or care
Nov 28 00:15:50 <halley> Then .svg
Nov 28 00:16:04 <timeless> just because i'm stupid enough to redo a theme mockup doesn't mean i want to be a graphic designer
Nov 28 00:16:15 <timeless> similarly for just because i can pick apart someone else's artwork/theme/layout...
Nov 28 00:16:46 <czr> you can always become localizer instead of a graphica designer!
Nov 28 00:17:02 * czr hides & shuffles the universe in order to increase the chances of being hidden
Nov 28 00:17:08 <czr> staying even
Nov 28 00:17:46 <GeneralAntilles> Why does the browser insist on bitching about "No homepage defined" when homepage is set to about:blank? :\
Nov 28 00:19:05 <timeless> ui specification? :)
Nov 28 00:19:19 <GeneralAntilles> Doesn't make any sense.
Nov 28 00:19:29 <GeneralAntilles> A homepage IS defined, as the homepage field isn't empty.
Nov 28 00:19:31 <timeless> it's a ui specification!
Nov 28 00:19:43 <GeneralAntilles> :(
Nov 28 00:19:51 <GeneralAntilles> UI specifications should all die.
Nov 28 00:19:54 <timeless> (they're not supposed to make sense.
Nov 28 00:19:56 <timeless> and they never do)
Nov 28 00:20:01 <GeneralAntilles> As Nokia doesn't seem to know how to make them correctly.
Nov 28 00:20:41 <timeless> yes well...
Nov 28 00:20:48 <timeless> having worked here over a year, i'd have to agree
Nov 28 00:20:57 <timeless> before coming here, there was this rule i had heard which i believed
Nov 28 00:20:57 <GeneralAntilles> Apple doesn't seem to have any trouble with UI specs (except, perhaps, following them).
Nov 28 00:21:05 <timeless> it was something like "never let an engineer design a ui"
Nov 28 00:21:11 <killfill> hey, ive just start openssh server. but cannot login. is root pass still "rootme"?
Nov 28 00:21:25 <timeless> killfill: did you enable r&d mode?
Nov 28 00:21:36 <db48x> timeless: yea, that works just fine
Nov 28 00:21:38 <timeless> generalantilles :)
Nov 28 00:21:39 <killfill> never did before.. is it necesarry?
Nov 28 00:21:48 <timeless> for 2008, apparently
Nov 28 00:21:52 <timeless> it's clearly a "Feature"
Nov 28 00:21:58 <db48x> what's the easiest way to take a screenshot in os2008?
Nov 28 00:21:59 <killfill> what does r and b stand for?.. so i can google them
Nov 28 00:22:04 <db48x> there is no 'import', for some reason
Nov 28 00:22:05 <timeless> /usr/bin/screenshottool
Nov 28 00:22:09 <timeless> or something
Nov 28 00:22:10 <killfill> db48x: with the load applet :P
Nov 28 00:22:23 <timeless> screenshottool is in chinook repo
Nov 28 00:22:36 <db48x> killfill: where is that?
Nov 28 00:22:37 <sp3000> killfill: r&b mode?
Nov 28 00:22:49 <halley> "rhythm and blues"
Nov 28 00:22:56 <halley> I think you mean "r&d mode"
Nov 28 00:22:58 <killfill> heh..
Nov 28 00:23:04 <killfill> ah.. yes r&d.. :)
Nov 28 00:23:08 <killfill> db48x, in the repo..
Nov 28 00:23:11 <killfill> maemo.org
Nov 28 00:23:13 <halley> As in hacking- "research & development"
Nov 28 00:23:39 <killfill> aah
Nov 28 00:25:09 <alterego> Theming stage 1 completedz
Nov 28 00:25:10 <hub> is there a way to download the N800 firmware efficiently like with wget?
Nov 28 00:25:22 <hub> I can't successfully do it with firefox
Nov 28 00:25:27 <hub> and it does not support resume
Nov 28 00:25:45 <killfill> http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode?
Nov 28 00:26:27 <GeneralAntilles> Screenies, alterego?
Nov 28 00:26:40 <killfill> i still cannot login from ssh.. :S
Nov 28 00:26:42 <fysa> GeneralAntilles: did you find /usr/share/browser/home_page/index.html?
Nov 28 00:26:48 <czr> hub, there were some torrents flying around ;-)
Nov 28 00:26:54 <GeneralAntilles> Was I looking?
Nov 28 00:26:55 <czr> hub, you might check the irclogs for this channel
Nov 28 00:27:00 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, yeah. Uploading now.
Nov 28 00:27:16 <hub> czr: I'd rather avoid torrents
Nov 28 00:27:28 <GeneralAntilles> Then you're stuck with direct, hub. :)
Nov 28 00:27:28 <hub> czr: unless the images are signed
Nov 28 00:27:32 <czr> hub, then no
Nov 28 00:27:34 <killfill> jees.. postgres.. :P
Nov 28 00:27:40 <killfill> never took the red pil before.. :P
Nov 28 00:27:43 <fysa> md5 it..
Nov 28 00:27:44 <czr> hub, unless you can somehow convince someone else to provide you the image
Nov 28 00:27:47 <timeless> db48x: have you not sent my commercial self any mail?
Nov 28 00:27:53 <fysa> I grabbed the image from thepiratebay, worked fine.
Nov 28 00:27:59 <db48x> timeless: probably not
Nov 28 00:28:02 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, mine is from tpb, too.
Nov 28 00:28:04 <GeneralAntilles> Works fine.
Nov 28 00:28:15 <fysa> after downloading at 0.4KB/s all night and having it quit halfway through.
Nov 28 00:28:27 <killfill> cannot get in.. :S
Nov 28 00:28:29 <doc|work> so, anyone else noticed that charging isn't "completing"?
Nov 28 00:28:47 <fysa> completes for me -- I get "charging complete. unplug charger to save energy"
Nov 28 00:28:54 <doc|work> hmmm
Nov 28 00:28:55 <killfill> damed
Nov 28 00:28:58 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/tablet_home_200711280029.png
Nov 28 00:28:59 <hub> fysa: md5 is like a crc
Nov 28 00:29:01 <doc|work> will try it again tonight
Nov 28 00:29:20 <GeneralAntilles> Looking tasty
Nov 28 00:29:29 <GeneralAntilles> I'd soften up the gradient on the toolbar though.
Nov 28 00:29:31 <timeless> alterego: nice
Nov 28 00:29:31 <fysa> I know what MD5 is.. :P
Nov 28 00:29:42 <fysa> there's sfv also..
Nov 28 00:29:56 <fysa> if you don't trust md5.
Nov 28 00:29:58 <timeless> alterego: can you reverse the clock?
Nov 28 00:30:06 <timeless> make the black transparent and the blue black
Nov 28 00:30:21 <killfill> timeless: is R6d mode the same as taking the red pil?
Nov 28 00:30:25 <alterego> timeless, ?
Nov 28 00:30:26 <_Monkey> timeless, is there a way for the user to choose between rdf and atom feeds?
Nov 28 00:30:29 <halley> killfill, no
Nov 28 00:30:29 <timeless> killfill: no
Nov 28 00:30:42 <timeless> _monkey forget me
Nov 28 00:30:42 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot me
Nov 28 00:30:44 <alterego> timeless, make your own theme :P
Nov 28 00:30:49 <timeless> _monkey forget me
Nov 28 00:30:49 <_Monkey> timeless, I didn't have anything matching me
Nov 28 00:30:50 <killfill> oh..
Nov 28 00:30:53 <timeless> _monkey forget timeless
Nov 28 00:30:53 <_Monkey> timeless: I forgot timeless
Nov 28 00:31:02 <timeless> _monkey, _monkey?
Nov 28 00:31:02 <_Monkey> i think i am an annoying bot
Nov 28 00:31:06 <timeless> yes
Nov 28 00:31:14 <alterego> timeless, do it in priv msg next time :P
Nov 28 00:31:22 <timeless> _monkey i am the microb architect
Nov 28 00:31:22 <_Monkey> OK, timeless.
Nov 28 00:31:26 <killfill> cannot find info about this...
Nov 28 00:31:27 <hub> fysa: I what is sfv?
Nov 28 00:31:34 <killfill> how do i enter r&d?..
Nov 28 00:31:38 <hub> fysa: I was more thinking real signing like GPG
Nov 28 00:32:06 <timeless> altergego; aww :(
Nov 28 00:32:11 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, make the gradient on the sidebar more gradual.
Nov 28 00:33:30 <killfill>  /usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --get-rd-mode
Nov 28 00:33:33 <killfill> is it this?...
Nov 28 00:33:33 <halley> Make that slope more slopey.
Nov 28 00:33:59 <killfill> :(
Nov 28 00:34:36 <timeless> can cal-tool be run as a mortal?
Nov 28 00:34:39 <timeless> that seems scary
Nov 28 00:35:09 <alterego> You should save it onto your tablet and view it full screen to see what I see :P
Nov 28 00:35:39 <timeless> no
Nov 28 00:35:49 <czr> hub, md5 is not like crc btw.
Nov 28 00:35:52 <timeless> cal-tool --get-rd-mode *reports* whether rd-mode is enabled
Nov 28 00:35:55 <GeneralAntilles> Howdy, zerojayN800.
Nov 28 00:36:01 <czr> used for similar purposes, but not like crc at all
Nov 28 00:36:05 <zerojayN800> hey
Nov 28 00:36:15 <hub> czr: just mildly more secure
Nov 28 00:36:35 <hub> czr: and still a checksum
Nov 28 00:36:41 <sp3000> timeless: yeah I don't know what the latest rev of the gb would be
Nov 28 00:36:43 <czr> it's not a checksum
Nov 28 00:36:46 <sp3000> bg even
Nov 28 00:36:48 <czr> it has no "sum".
Nov 28 00:36:57 <timeless> sp3000: bg?
Nov 28 00:37:01 <hub> czr: it is call md5sum
Nov 28 00:37:03 <hub> called
Nov 28 00:37:08 <czr> hub, the program is yes.
Nov 28 00:37:16 <halley> checksums are often used as digests; hashes are often used as digests; but hashes are not checksums.
Nov 28 00:37:22 <timeless> sp3000: confused
Nov 28 00:37:24 <sp3000> timeless: "the stupid gray background" :)
Nov 28 00:37:39 <timeless> sp3000: the one you have in 2008 week 42/44 is official afaik
Nov 28 00:37:43 <timeless> do you not have that?
Nov 28 00:38:09 * timeless wants to go home
Nov 28 00:38:10 <sp3000> I think I want to charge for a bit before flashing :)
Nov 28 00:38:17 <czr> timeless, you're not at home? bad..
Nov 28 00:38:24 <timeless> no kidding
Nov 28 00:38:25 <alterego> I should sleep.
Nov 28 00:38:28 <timeless> someone get sp3000 the picture
Nov 28 00:38:31 <timeless> so i can go home
Nov 28 00:38:58 <timeless> genralantilles: not true
Nov 28 00:39:01 <timeless> (2405)
Nov 28 00:39:08 <timeless> if you're logged in, you get a very different page :)
Nov 28 00:39:19 <timeless> and as it happens, if you aren't, you get one that has more js than the default one
Nov 28 00:39:29 * sp3000 thinks on how to position the things in bulk ...something to do with html and css and taking a screenshot ... :D
Nov 28 00:39:38 <killfill> timeless: how do i enable my ssh?... :P
Nov 28 00:39:40 * timeless chuckles
Nov 28 00:39:51 <timeless> killfill: you buying me dinner?
Nov 28 00:40:07 <timeless> hrm
Nov 28 00:40:11 <timeless> postinst runs as root, right?
Nov 28 00:40:15 <killfill> well i already have.. but maybe tomorrow.. :P
Nov 28 00:40:20 <czr> or fakeroot, but yes timeless
Nov 28 00:40:50 * timeless geos hunting for an empty deb
Nov 28 00:40:53 <GeneralAntilles> Bleh
Nov 28 00:40:55 * GeneralAntilles should test better.
Nov 28 00:41:09 <czr> of course in SDK it's possible to run dpkg without fakeroot and as long as package doesn't actually attempt to do chown, everything will seem ok (or require "root" for anything)
Nov 28 00:42:30 <timeless> Architecture: all or any? :)
Nov 28 00:43:05 <czr> timeless, any in source, all in package file.
Nov 28 00:43:07 <czr> methinks
Nov 28 00:43:10 <czr> let me check
Nov 28 00:43:20 <timeless> in control?
Nov 28 00:43:43 <czr> any at least in my package
Nov 28 00:43:55 <czr> will be replaced by the proper arch on dpkg-buildpackage
Nov 28 00:44:18 <czr> all I think means that the package has no arch-specific parts at all
Nov 28 00:44:39 <timeless> hrm
Nov 28 00:44:43 <czr> check the source for maemo-repository
Nov 28 00:44:52 <timeless> does ssh root@localhost work w/ r&d mode disabled if ther'es an ssh key?
Nov 28 00:44:56 <czr> it is arch-neutral package
Nov 28 00:45:07 <timeless> ?
Nov 28 00:45:11 <czr> so people say. haven't tried. you want me to verify?
Nov 28 00:45:15 <sp3000> I think someone said it did
Nov 28 00:45:25 <timeless> please
Nov 28 00:45:27 <halley> timeless, why not ssh in as user and su up?
Nov 28 00:45:27 <czr> trivial to test, let's see what will happen
Nov 28 00:46:12 <GeneralAntilles> I don't think it worked for me when I tried, but I was doing any detailed testing.
Nov 28 00:46:27 <timeless> halley: user has no password
Nov 28 00:46:38 <timeless> and su kinda doesn't work until you enable a suer
Nov 28 00:46:53 <halley> Right...
Nov 28 00:47:20 <halley> passwd user ; echo>>sudoers ; passwd -l root
Nov 28 00:47:38 <halley> Same scheme as ubuntu, macosx, ...
Nov 28 00:48:24 <sp3000> two bars, that oughta do
Nov 28 00:49:38 <czr> is there a more recent image for N810 than 32-18?
Nov 28 00:49:41 <czr> 42-18 even
Nov 28 00:49:58 <timeless> ok, i need a priority
Nov 28 00:50:02 <timeless> 42-19
Nov 28 00:50:08 <timeless> it's *only* a kernel change
Nov 28 00:50:14 <timeless> so find someone you trust who has it
Nov 28 00:50:21 <timeless> and ask them to send you just the kernel piece :)
Nov 28 00:50:32 <timeless> otherwise you're wasting 100+mb of bandwidth
Nov 28 00:50:38 <timeless> oh wait. that's probably me
Nov 28 00:50:49 <czr> heh
Nov 28 00:51:00 <halley> I pulled the N810 42-19 last night.
Nov 28 00:51:02 <czr> you assume I trust you! :-)
Nov 28 00:51:22 <czr> timeless, works
Nov 28 00:51:32 <czr> root login, with keys, with r&d disabled.
Nov 28 00:51:54 <czr> sorry verf took so long, had to reboot the device several times. I don't use flasher that often :-)
Nov 28 00:52:23 <killfill> czr: how does one enable r&b?...
Nov 28 00:52:37 <czr> by getting a drum and a guitar
Nov 28 00:52:43 <czr> and possible some personal issues to sing about
Nov 28 00:52:47 <halley> Or a sax.
Nov 28 00:52:49 <czr> or you mean r&d?
Nov 28 00:52:55 <timeless> try loading http://timeless.justdave.net/capture-root-0.1.deb
Nov 28 00:52:56 <czr> killfill, r&d with flasher.
Nov 28 00:53:01 <timeless> not sure what it'll do
Nov 28 00:53:01 <killfill> well i have personal issues.. not the instruments tho.. :P
Nov 28 00:53:08 <timeless> you're encouraged to dpkg-deb it :)
Nov 28 00:53:12 <czr> timeless, heh. and you want us to try it? :-)
Nov 28 00:53:20 <timeless> czr: read first :)
Nov 28 00:53:23 <killfill> what flasher?.. its something you do before flashing the device?
Nov 28 00:53:44 <czr> killfill, it's the program that is used to flash the device. the same program is used to enable/disable r&d.
Nov 28 00:54:02 <czr> killfill, I'm assuming you're using linux to flash the device here.
Nov 28 00:54:08 <czr> I've never used the windows program.
Nov 28 00:54:15 <timeless> windows doesn't let you twiddle flags
Nov 28 00:54:17 <killfill> oh. yah.. i ment "what?.. flasher?"...  :)
Nov 28 00:54:33 <killfill> well, its really necesary to do all this to enable the ssh server?...
Nov 28 00:54:42 <timeless> killfill: i think "not"
Nov 28 00:54:44 <timeless> you could try this:
Nov 28 00:54:45 <czr> timeless, your clock is wrong ;-)
Nov 28 00:54:46 <killfill> actually got freebsd here.. flash doesnt work.. ill have to wait to work tomorrow
Nov 28 00:54:46 <timeless> 1. install ssh
Nov 28 00:54:49 <timeless> 2. ssh-keygen
Nov 28 00:54:56 <czr> or maybe mine is. hmm
Nov 28 00:54:59 <timeless> 3. try installing the deb i url'd a moment ago
Nov 28 00:55:06 <timeless> if it works, then, um, "you're done"
Nov 28 00:55:15 <timeless> oh,... 2 needs another step
Nov 28 00:55:18 <timeless> after you ssh-keygen
Nov 28 00:55:19 <czr> timeless, your clock is off by ~2000 seconds
Nov 28 00:55:37 <timeless> you need to cat ~/.ssh/*.pub >> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
Nov 28 00:55:55 <timeless> czr: which "your"?
Nov 28 00:56:05 <czr> timeless, on whichever host you built that package
Nov 28 00:56:08 <timeless> swift-nexenta(deb builder), swift(workstation), or sanjay(webserver)
Nov 28 00:56:21 <timeless> how in the world can you tell?
Nov 28 00:56:29 <czr> dpkg -x capture-root-0.1.deb .
Nov 28 00:56:35 <czr> tar: .: time stamp 2007-11-28 03:33:39 is 2267 s in the future
Nov 28 00:56:36 <|tbb|> has some1 succesfully paired a bt headset which working properly with the new os8, the ony thing i get to work is pairing it and change the volume by the headphone
Nov 28 00:56:43 <czr> timeless, "magic" ;-)
Nov 28 00:56:44 <halley> Making an id.pub on a pocket device is useless; never let a heavy machine trust an easily-stealable machine.
Nov 28 00:56:48 <timeless> nice
Nov 28 00:57:06 <GeneralAntilles> |tbb|, mine answered and communicated with a SIP call just fine.
Nov 28 00:57:07 <K`zan> To those folks who cranked out Apps for 2007, those that are porting them to 2008 as well as those that put together the Development stuff:  THANK YOU!
Nov 28 00:57:10 <timeless> czr: well, that problem will go away RSN :)
Nov 28 00:57:18 <czr> halley, maybe you confused what the .pub is
Nov 28 00:57:26 <czr> .pub doesn't mean that anyone will trust the pocket device
Nov 28 00:57:50 <|tbb|> GeneralAntilles: have u modified anything on the bluetooth conf
Nov 28 00:57:55 <killfill> still dont get why did ssh behaviour change from os2007.. :P
Nov 28 00:58:03 <timeless> killfill: nor do i
Nov 28 00:58:05 <czr> halley, and we're mostly developers here. we're interested in using ssh to login into the devices from our regular desktops. not the other way around.
Nov 28 00:58:07 <GeneralAntilles> No, |tbb|.
Nov 28 00:58:24 <czr> timeless, not RSNE :-)
Nov 28 00:58:37 <K`zan> I'm about convinced that BT headsets only work with cell phones...
Nov 28 00:58:38 <|tbb|> could u use it with skype
Nov 28 00:58:39 <timeless> wait, 2267s?
Nov 28 00:58:46 <czr> timeless, for the root .
Nov 28 00:58:52 <timeless> so 37 mins?
Nov 28 00:58:54 <czr> timeless, there are other timestamps that are off
Nov 28 00:59:11 <czr> timeless, the control one seems to be the furthest away (2663)
Nov 28 00:59:16 <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ date
Nov 28 00:59:16 <timeless> Tue Nov 27 17:50:50 PST 2007
Nov 28 00:59:23 <timeless> control was the file last changed
Nov 28 00:59:25 <czr> !exec date
Nov 28 00:59:26 <GeneralAntilles> Don't use Skype, so I couldn't say.
Nov 28 00:59:27 <timeless> -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless webservd 377 Nov 27 17:42 control
Nov 28 00:59:27 <czr> bleh :-)
Nov 28 00:59:38 <timeless> timeless@swift:/export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data% date
Nov 28 00:59:38 <timeless> Wed Nov 28 03:51:13 EET 2007
Nov 28 00:59:54 <|tbb|> could u use it with kagu (a2dp)
Nov 28 01:00:02 <czr> timeless, well, I'm pretty certain that this host has proper time. so don't blame me :-)
Nov 28 01:00:12 * timeless ponders
Nov 28 01:00:13 <timeless> confused
Nov 28 01:00:25 <czr> maybe it's a timezone thing? that'd be weird though.
Nov 28 01:00:28 <killfill> timeless: cannot install your deb. :( it says "app incompatible"
Nov 28 01:00:39 <timeless> killfill: incompatible?
Nov 28 01:00:40 <timeless> wonky
Nov 28 01:00:44 <timeless> note: i'm not a debian guy
Nov 28 01:00:47 <timeless> i'm an evil hacker
Nov 28 01:00:54 <timeless> give me a few bits of talking w/ czr
Nov 28 01:00:57 <czr> timeless, you know by now that your package description makes absolutely no sense? :-)
Nov 28 01:01:02 <timeless> czr: why does it say it's incompatible?
Nov 28 01:01:11 <czr> it's in section admon
Nov 28 01:01:12 <czr> admin even
Nov 28 01:01:22 <czr> section should be prefixed by user/
Nov 28 01:01:26 <timeless> oh, should be user/admin
Nov 28 01:01:28 <timeless> right
Nov 28 01:01:35 <czr> in order for the Am to accept it without redpill mode
Nov 28 01:02:06 <czr> 'This package copies your /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys file to /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys.'
Nov 28 01:02:08 * czr chuckles
Nov 28 01:02:15 <timeless> killfill: reload
Nov 28 01:02:24 <timeless> czr: "oops" :)
Nov 28 01:02:28 <timeless> it's late!
Nov 28 01:02:37 <czr> no. It's funny :-)
Nov 28 01:02:46 <czr> especially when it continues with "This is used to enable ssh root@localhost."
Nov 28 01:03:09 <czr> also the short package description isn't very good
Nov 28 01:03:11 <timeless> "fixed"
Nov 28 01:03:19 <czr> but I guess the long one could "fix" that by being more sane.
Nov 28 01:03:35 <timeless> killfill: have you made your authorized_keys file?
Nov 28 01:03:40 * sp3000 wonders why his link applet thing is blank on second boot
Nov 28 01:03:43 <timeless> i think at this point, it should install and "work"
Nov 28 01:03:52 <timeless> sp3000: i used to get that all the time
Nov 28 01:03:57 <timeless> good to hear it's still present :)
Nov 28 01:04:08 <|tbb|> GeneralAntilles: which image u run btw which device do u got
Nov 28 01:04:19 <timeless> czr: ok, so how do i fix the short desc?
Nov 28 01:04:23 <GeneralAntilles>  OS2008 beta for N800.
Nov 28 01:04:43 <czr> timeless, "Copies SSH authorized keys from user to root"
Nov 28 01:05:07 <killfill> timeless: not really. you mean to generate it, and copy it on the desktop mashine to try to login via that?..
Nov 28 01:05:44 <timeless> killfill: you can either generate it on your device or on your desktop
Nov 28 01:05:46 <czr> timeless, you might also add that the copying is done when package is installed and the package does not provide any commands to do this after installation
Nov 28 01:05:55 <czr> timeless, or provide a README file describing this
Nov 28 01:06:20 <timeless> either way, for the package i've built, /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys needs to be on your system before you try to install my package
Nov 28 01:06:25 <czr> timeless, or, an URL to some stable webpage giving usage instructions for stupid lusers like me
Nov 28 01:06:45 <timeless> czr: which makes the most sense?
Nov 28 01:07:06 <czr> well, you should test for the keys before mkdir /root/.ssh then ;-)
Nov 28 01:07:13 <czr> and at least abort with an echo or something
Nov 28 01:07:20 <timeless> "This is a dummy package it performs this operation at postinst,
Nov 28 01:07:21 <czr> and document why package installation might fail
Nov 28 01:07:24 <timeless> "
Nov 28 01:07:31 <czr> more or less smt like that
Nov 28 01:07:33 <timeless> i presume that "exit" triggers failure
Nov 28 01:07:37 <czr> it depends on your target audience really
Nov 28 01:07:39 <czr> yes
Nov 28 01:07:56 <timeless> do you object to me creating a proper /root/.ssh dir in the failure case?
Nov 28 01:08:05 * timeless considered it and decided it wasn't interesting
Nov 28 01:08:25 <czr> I don't like packages modifying my system first and then deciding that "nah, won't install"
Nov 28 01:08:33 <czr> especially since the change is trivial
Nov 28 01:08:33 <timeless> fair enough
Nov 28 01:08:49 <timeless> how do i do two things instead of one (echo & exit)?
Nov 28 01:08:57 <czr> echo && exit
Nov 28 01:09:21 <czr> you might want to redir the echo to stderr
Nov 28 01:09:27 <timeless> if test ... ; then
Nov 28 01:09:35 <timeless> echo Wah >&
Nov 28 01:09:37 <timeless> exit 1
Nov 28 01:09:37 <timeless> fi
Nov 28 01:09:38 <timeless> ?
Nov 28 01:09:39 <czr> would lead to more readable script
Nov 28 01:09:57 <czr> hmm. not sure about >&
Nov 28 01:10:06 <czr> but I guess you can test that out pretty easily
Nov 28 01:10:14 <czr> I'd use 2>&1 but that'd be bashish
Nov 28 01:10:18 <czr> bashism even
Nov 28 01:11:25 <czr> also, instead of using chmod, you should set umask at the start
Nov 28 01:11:41 <czr> that way your cats will create the files with proper protection if the old root keys don't exist
Nov 28 01:11:55 <czr> and you don't end up modifying protection on /root/.ssh if it already exists
Nov 28 01:11:58 <czr> etc etc :-)
Nov 28 01:12:01 <Mikho> how easy would it be to get newer version (2.10 or 2.12) of gtk+ in maemo2.2?
Nov 28 01:12:16 <czr> Mikho, for 770?
Nov 28 01:12:20 <Mikho> yes
Nov 28 01:12:27 <czr> Mikho, I'd think OS2008HE might have .21
Nov 28 01:12:29 <czr> .12 even
Nov 28 01:12:37 <czr> but that'd not out yet. otherwise it's going to pretty painful
Nov 28 01:12:47 <Mikho> i can imagine
Nov 28 01:13:23 <Mikho> I think i already tried it once half a year ago. The experience was probably painful enough to make me forget all about it
Nov 28 01:13:47 <Mikho> I also failed to install gtkmm
Nov 28 01:13:48 <czr> hmm. what's the version in 2007HE?
Nov 28 01:14:01 <Mikho> 2.6.10 was it?
Nov 28 01:14:09 <Mikho> it's missing some features
Nov 28 01:14:56 <Mikho> oh well, I'll have to live without grid lines in GtkTreeView
Nov 28 01:16:07 <sp3000> odd
Nov 28 01:16:17 <sp3000> using an unpopulated dictionary doesn't seem to work
Nov 28 01:16:38 <czr> sp3000, dict?
Nov 28 01:16:44 <derf> Wow, they managed to do 26% better than bzip2 using a _simpler_ compression algorithm.
Nov 28 01:16:53 <sp3000> czr: for input
Nov 28 01:16:56 <derf> You don't see those kind of results often.
Nov 28 01:17:07 <czr> sp3000, ah. i-m?
Nov 28 01:17:44 <sp3000> yeah I have no use for words I don't use :)
Nov 28 01:20:14 <K`zan> Trying to find a case for the n800 is sure exciting...
Nov 28 01:20:48 <czr> derf, where?
Nov 28 01:22:06 <derf> czr: http://www.springerlink.com/index/jg21122l640j5403.pdf
Nov 28 01:23:46 <czr> hmm. the order0 thing has been already used before
Nov 28 01:24:05 <czr> derf, you don't happen to have access to the full paper?
Nov 28 01:24:16 <czr> ah. silly me :-)
Nov 28 01:24:18 <czr> there was a link on the page
Nov 28 01:24:41 <czr> ah. yeah. it's not public.
Nov 28 01:25:17 <derf> czr: Yes, I have access to the full paper.
Nov 28 01:25:49 <astro76> K`zan, http://www.amazon.com/Case-Logic-PLT-2-Strongman-Koskin/dp/B00004TZGM/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1196213110&sr=8-1
Nov 28 01:26:06 <K`zan> astro76: Checking, thank you!
Nov 28 01:26:07 <astro76> K`zan, pictures with n800: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=42634&postcount=60
Nov 28 01:27:05 <timeless> czr: ok, i rewrote the script
Nov 28 01:27:12 <timeless> no clue if it works w/ busybox :)
Nov 28 01:27:23 <derf> But I will tell you the gist, because it's really simple: They do a whole bunch of complicated stuff with deep theoretical insight, and find out that just doing BWT+RLE with a fast adapting arithmetic encoder is better than anything involving move-to-front.
Nov 28 01:27:48 <K`zan> http://cgi.ebay.com/Leather-Case-for-Nokia-N800-Internet-Tablet-Book-Type_W0QQitemZ220175644903QQihZ012QQcategoryZ20367QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Nov 28 01:28:13 <K`zan> Most of these I see turn it from a pocket device to a briefcase device, sigh...
Nov 28 01:28:31 <czr> derf, is the paper worth 25USD?
Nov 28 01:28:33 <derf> And their clever algorithm which is supposed to optimally partition the output of the BWT into segments that can easily be compressed by an order-0 coder tells them that the optimal parition is... the whole string.
Nov 28 01:28:42 <czr> heh
Nov 28 01:28:45 <czr> sneaky
Nov 28 01:28:58 <derf> czr: No.
Nov 28 01:29:05 <derf> At least, I wouldn't pay $25 for it.
Nov 28 01:29:20 <derf> (please ignore the thousands of dollars in tuition and fees paid to universities that get me my access)
Nov 28 01:29:37 * czr nods
Nov 28 01:30:11 <czr> I've stayed away from BWT on most of my stuff. it's too slow for most of the problems I'm working with
Nov 28 01:30:26 <timeless> czr: so does it work? :)
Nov 28 01:30:33 <czr> also has pretty horrible cache-behaviour which I couldn't quite work out into any better access
Nov 28 01:30:41 <czr> timeless, give me a sec
Nov 28 01:30:54 <czr> you still have the useless postrm :-)
Nov 28 01:31:06 <timeless> what am i supposed to d?
Nov 28 01:31:08 <timeless> remove it?
Nov 28 01:31:11 <czr> yeah
Nov 28 01:31:28 <derf> czr: Well, the timings they give are faster than PPMd, but that's not really saying much.
Nov 28 01:31:28 <timeless> can i drop the other files too?
Nov 28 01:31:42 <czr> derf, indeed
Nov 28 01:31:56 <czr> timeless, which ones do you have in your source debian/?
Nov 28 01:32:04 <timeless> everything you see
Nov 28 01:32:08 <czr> there is also a typo on the script. umast :-)
Nov 28 01:32:11 <timeless> if you reload, i have just 2
Nov 28 01:32:15 <timeless> oh brother
Nov 28 01:32:31 * czr thinks is using some shell developed for pirates
Nov 28 01:32:57 <timeless> ok, reload
Nov 28 01:33:08 <timeless> timeless@swift:/export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data% ls ~/nexenta/capture-root/DEBIAN
Nov 28 01:33:08 <timeless> control   postinst
Nov 28 01:33:16 <timeless> the package is now smaller :)
Nov 28 01:33:34 <timeless> -rw-r--r--   1 timeless webservd     960 Nov 28 04:24 /export/home/timeless/nexenta/capture-root-0.1.deb
Nov 28 01:33:40 <timeless> yum, tiny :)
Nov 28 01:33:47 <czr> please add "Copying is done at package install time if possible" to long desc.
Nov 28 01:34:14 <timeless> any specific point in the long desc?
Nov 28 01:34:34 <timeless>  This package copies your /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys file to
Nov 28 01:34:35 <timeless>  /root/.ssh/authorized_keys at *installation* time (postinst).
Nov 28 01:34:40 <czr> before .\nThis and after keys.. add ".\n" before that one line
Nov 28 01:34:46 <czr> that's ok too
Nov 28 01:35:02 <timeless> reload :)
Nov 28 01:35:04 <czr> it assumes that the person installing the package knows what postinst means :-)
Nov 28 01:35:18 <czr> but I'm ok with that.
Nov 28 01:35:23 <timeless> is "installation" unclear?
Nov 28 01:35:25 <czr> since you're going for small size ;-)
Nov 28 01:35:27 <czr> no
Nov 28 01:35:44 <timeless> bah, you bloated my file by 16 bytes
Nov 28 01:35:54 <czr> that's me. the master bloater :-)
Nov 28 01:36:03 <czr> "add an icon to the package"
Nov 28 01:36:09 * timeless rotfl
Nov 28 01:36:46 <timeless> um, "no" :)
Nov 28 01:36:56 <czr> hmm. the line ending with FOUNDKEYS seems weird
Nov 28 01:37:18 <timeless> oops
Nov 28 01:37:20 <timeless> it's missing an =
Nov 28 01:37:29 <czr> that's what I thought
Nov 28 01:37:42 <timeless> the line used to say ERROR, rewrites are dangerous
Nov 28 01:37:44 <timeless> reload :)
Nov 28 01:38:35 <czr> two typos
Nov 28 01:38:37 <czr> DSRDIR
Nov 28 01:38:41 <timeless> http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=372235&cid=21496503
Nov 28 01:38:50 <czr> you really should test the script at some point you know ;-)
Nov 28 01:39:05 <timeless> i tested the original
Nov 28 01:39:13 <czr> ah. before I messed it up :-)
Nov 28 01:39:22 <timeless> ok, reload :)
Nov 28 01:39:34 <timeless> The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The scientist says there is .3764666437 litres. The realist says "there's not enough". The doctor says "he's dead, Jim".
Nov 28 01:39:44 <czr> I like the comment about chuck norris :-)
Nov 28 01:39:57 <halley> George Carlin thinks the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
Nov 28 01:40:16 <timeless> you mean jack bauer?
Nov 28 01:40:26 <timeless> The engineer says that the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
Nov 28 01:40:26 <timeless> Jack Bauer found out where the glass was, who drank the water, and which government they worked for.
Nov 28 01:41:40 <timeless> czr: ok, so, at this point, i have a package that works? :)
Nov 28 01:41:49 <czr> I haven't tried it out
Nov 28 01:41:54 <fysa> All while being accused of drinking the water himself, even though he was really really thirsty the entire day.
Nov 28 01:42:08 <WillySilly> Jack Bauer ftw
Nov 28 01:42:10 <timeless> fysa++
Nov 28 01:42:22 <czr> heh fysa
Nov 28 01:42:34 <czr> timeless, your timestamps are still in the future :-)
Nov 28 01:43:04 <timeless> how do i  control timezone?
Nov 28 01:43:06 <timeless> /etc/timezone?
Nov 28 01:43:12 <czr> timeless, do a date; ssh host date; comparison to the hosts through which the files and the packaging thing goes through. should be enought to determine where the culprit is
Nov 28 01:43:16 <czr> it's not timezone
Nov 28 01:43:24 <czr> it's off by non 3600 second divisor
Nov 28 01:43:35 <czr> you really have a bad clock in there somewhere
Nov 28 01:43:38 <timeless> timeless@swift:/export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data% date; ssh swift-nexenta date
Nov 28 01:43:39 <timeless> Wed Nov 28 04:35:13 EET 2007
Nov 28 01:43:39 <timeless> Tue Nov 27 18:35:13 PST 2007
Nov 28 01:43:46 <czr> that's ok
Nov 28 01:44:09 <czr> hmm
Nov 28 01:44:15 <czr> or not. mine is something else
Nov 28 01:44:15 <timeless> timeless@swift:/export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data% date; ssh tinderbox date;date
Nov 28 01:44:15 <timeless> Wed Nov 28 04:35:50 EET 2007
Nov 28 01:44:15 <timeless> Wed Nov 28 03:44:11 EET 2007
Nov 28 01:44:15 <timeless> Wed Nov 28 04:35:50 EET 2007
Nov 28 01:44:24 <czr> Wed Nov 28 03:44:24 EET 2007
Nov 28 01:44:43 <zerojay> alterego: Are you sure that id3lib is included in Maemo?
Nov 28 01:44:49 <czr> swift is wrong, tinderbox is ok
Nov 28 01:45:01 <alterego> zerojay, /usr/lib/libid3  ;)
Nov 28 01:45:08 <czr> also swift-nexenta is wrong timeless
Nov 28 01:45:10 <alterego> It's definitely there.
Nov 28 01:45:15 <timeless> swift is fast by 37mins?
Nov 28 01:45:21 <czr> yes
Nov 28 01:45:24 <zerojay> alterego: Okay, because i didn't see it in the list of packages. Cool.
Nov 28 01:45:29 <timeless> ok, um...
Nov 28 01:45:45 <zerojay> Now you know why it's called swift. :)
Nov 28 01:45:49 <czr> timeless, if you use sudo, open a sudo - su term while you jump the clock back :-)
Nov 28 01:45:58 <czr> timeless, sudo is picky about the timestamps in the auth-files it creates
Nov 28 01:46:06 <timeless> i don't use sudo
Nov 28 01:46:11 <timeless> i use ssh :)
Nov 28 01:46:18 <czr> that's ok :-)
Nov 28 01:46:24 <czr> I meant for "gaining root access"
Nov 28 01:47:07 <czr> there's one problem in the package btw.
Nov 28 01:47:17 <czr> although I'm not quite sure how to effectively fix it
Nov 28 01:47:32 <czr> timeless, suppose someone will install/remove/install/remove/install the package. what will happen?
Nov 28 01:47:37 * alterego points czr to the window
Nov 28 01:47:50 * czr points timeless to alterego's window
Nov 28 01:47:57 <alterego> :)
Nov 28 01:48:01 <czr> alterego, I have my own windows to worry about :-)
Nov 28 01:48:05 <alterego> Bed time for me. g'night folks.
Nov 28 01:48:15 <zerojay> alterego: Any luck with packaging id3lib?
Nov 28 01:48:17 <czr> night theme master
Nov 28 01:48:27 <alterego> zerojay, I'll do it tomorrow after work.
Nov 28 01:48:30 <timeless> czr: from my perspective, nothing interesting
Nov 28 01:48:37 <timeless> in practice, your auth list will grow uselessly
Nov 28 01:48:37 <zerojay> alterego: Awesome. Thanks. :)
Nov 28 01:48:43 <alterego> No problem
Nov 28 01:48:43 <timeless> i could use sort|uniq and friends
Nov 28 01:48:49 <timeless> should i care?
Nov 28 01:48:53 <czr> timeless, yeah. I wouldn't consider it a major bug
Nov 28 01:49:02 <czr> someone else with inspiration migh fix it
Nov 28 01:49:17 <czr> I thought about it for 5 seconds, didn't come up with a proper way to do it -> ignoring it
Nov 28 01:49:30 <timeless> sort|uniq would work
Nov 28 01:49:40 <timeless> but it requires *safely* dealing w/ temp files
Nov 28 01:49:45 <czr> yup
Nov 28 01:49:46 <timeless> which is non trivial at least
Nov 28 01:50:07 <timeless> it can actually be done line at a time
Nov 28 01:50:16 <timeless> cat $FILE|xargs -n1 maybe_add
Nov 28 01:50:26 <timeless> where maybe_add greps || cat>>s
Nov 28 01:50:42 <czr> you could create them under /dev/shm ;-)
Nov 28 01:50:56 <czr> that way if device is reset while you're isntalling the package, the files will poof :-)
Nov 28 01:50:56 * timeless gets really scared
Nov 28 01:51:05 <czr> although I don't know how /tmp/ is arranged on the device
Nov 28 01:51:26 <timeless> anyway, for people reading in the future, this is how you would do it
Nov 28 01:51:42 <timeless> cat/xargs/maybe_add;maybe_add: grep||cat>>
Nov 28 01:51:57 <timeless> it's actually fairly easy, but i'm pretty sure that'd require an actual script
Nov 28 01:53:40 <czr> actually a for loop using a newline IFS could do the trick
Nov 28 01:53:50 <czr> for key in `cat keyfile`; do
Nov 28 01:54:05 <czr> ah no
Nov 28 01:54:13 <czr> one would need to escape the data going into grep.. hmm.
Nov 28 01:54:31 <timeless> grep -- "$key" ?
Nov 28 01:54:58 <czr> grep -q ^"${key}"$ dstdir/keyfile
Nov 28 01:55:17 <czr> but here ${key} would have to be escaped for RE chars before hitting grep
Nov 28 01:55:24 <timeless> \Q\E
Nov 28 01:55:28 <timeless> if grep supports it
Nov 28 01:55:44 <timeless> (quite possibly a perlism)
Nov 28 01:56:00 <czr> ah. ^ and $ can be replaced with -x
Nov 28 01:56:33 <czr> I don't think \Q\E works
Nov 28 01:56:46 <czr> infact, a lot of the modifiers that we're used to don't exist in regular/egrep
Nov 28 01:56:58 * timeless nods
Nov 28 01:57:17 <czr> the package is good enough to have my stamp of approval now :-)
Nov 28 01:57:20 <czr> although I haven't tested it
Nov 28 01:57:31 <timeless> what's -w do?
Nov 28 01:57:48 <timeless>      -w   Searches for the expression as a word as if  surrounded
Nov 28 01:57:48 <timeless>           by \< and \>.
Nov 28 01:57:50 <czr> allows the search to be surrounded by whitespace (and whitespace only)
Nov 28 01:58:10 <timeless> egrep -F
Nov 28 01:58:11 <czr> ^\s* foo \s*$ basically
Nov 28 01:58:15 <timeless>   /usr/xpg4/bin/grep
Nov 28 01:58:18 <timeless> -F would work
Nov 28 01:58:33 <czr> ah. interesting. yes. maybe
Nov 28 01:58:38 <timeless> something tells me we don't have xpg4/bin/grep :(
Nov 28 01:58:44 <czr> there's fgrep
Nov 28 01:58:50 <czr> not sure about the device, let me see
Nov 28 01:59:00 <czr> it's there
Nov 28 01:59:11 <czr> "No help available." -> success :-)
Nov 28 01:59:15 <timeless>      fgrep - search a file for a fixed-character string
Nov 28 01:59:16 <sp3000> timeless: mailed
Nov 28 01:59:27 <timeless> thanks
Nov 28 01:59:38 <timeless> sp3000: did it work? :)
Nov 28 01:59:43 <timeless> (since i sent you the patch too)
Nov 28 01:59:53 <sp3000> which one?
Nov 28 02:00:17 <zerojay> What's the new root password in IT2008 again?
Nov 28 02:00:27 <timeless> zerojay: it's not a new password
Nov 28 02:00:33 <timeless> it just doesn't let you use it w/o r&d mode
Nov 28 02:00:39 <zerojay> oh crap.
Nov 28 02:00:42 <timeless> or you could try mjy package :)
Nov 28 02:00:46 <czr> heh
Nov 28 02:00:48 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 28 02:00:52 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/capture-root-0.1.deb
Nov 28 02:01:19 <czr> in all honesty, zerojay, you'd be the first person to actually try it :-)
Nov 28 02:01:29 <timeless> yeah, that too :)
Nov 28 02:01:37 <czr> so that you don't have any illusions :-)
Nov 28 02:01:45 <zerojay> If I don't respond in ten minutes...
Nov 28 02:01:48 <zerojay> ...reboot me.
Nov 28 02:01:53 <czr> will do
Nov 28 02:02:25 <zerojay> Unable to install capture-root.
Nov 28 02:02:34 <czr> hmm.
Nov 28 02:02:35 <timeless> did it say why? :)
Nov 28 02:02:38 <zerojay> Retrying in red pill mode.
Nov 28 02:02:40 <timeless> there's an error log in application amanger
Nov 28 02:02:41 <czr> maybe I should take the package for a spin
Nov 28 02:02:48 <czr> ah yes!
Nov 28 02:02:52 <timeless> you have to ask for the error log
Nov 28 02:02:53 <czr> check the am log first zerojay
Nov 28 02:02:55 <timeless> it's in tools>log iirc
Nov 28 02:03:08 <timeless> (or something similarly hard to find)
Nov 28 02:03:08 <czr> zerojay, you don't have authorized_keys in /home/user.
Nov 28 02:03:14 <czr> zerojay, that's why it will fail to install
Nov 28 02:03:26 <czr> you need to get your key into /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys first
Nov 28 02:03:30 <czr> THEN install the package
Nov 28 02:03:37 <czr> shouldn't be any need for redpill-mode
Nov 28 02:03:55 <zerojay> Ok.. so I have to create the key...
Nov 28 02:04:02 <czr> you don't have an ssh key?
Nov 28 02:04:17 <timeless> you can ssh-keygen on the device
Nov 28 02:04:26 <timeless> i should probably generate one if ther eisn't one
Nov 28 02:04:32 <czr> but then you'd have to transfer the key outside from the device, which is bleh
Nov 28 02:04:34 <czr> yeah
Nov 28 02:04:38 <czr> err, no
Nov 28 02:04:40 <timeless> since the average case is a user who just wants to root their own localhost
Nov 28 02:04:45 <czr> hmm.
Nov 28 02:04:46 <timeless> why not?
Nov 28 02:05:03 <czr> I'm thinking of the implications of leaving the key on a predefined location on a mobile device
Nov 28 02:05:15 * timeless ponders
Nov 28 02:05:27 <czr> cause by stealing that key by a rogue application would allow _automatic_ access to that device as root
Nov 28 02:05:35 <czr> and you don't really want to make that too easy
Nov 28 02:05:36 * timeless nods
Nov 28 02:05:51 <timeless> otoh... if that key exists
Nov 28 02:05:54 <timeless> and is stealable
Nov 28 02:05:57 <timeless> we have bigger problems
Nov 28 02:05:59 <czr> also, you can't ask for passphrase during generation
Nov 28 02:06:02 <timeless> because, e.g., i do that
Nov 28 02:06:06 <czr> but it's a user decision then
Nov 28 02:06:09 <zerojay> Screw it, I just enabled r&d mode. ;P
Nov 28 02:06:13 <czr> it's not something your script will automatically do :-)
Nov 28 02:06:15 <czr> zerojay, noo
Nov 28 02:06:16 <timeless> zerojay: aww
Nov 28 02:06:21 <czr> zerojay, we need someone to test the package :-)
Nov 28 02:06:22 <timeless> please seriously, needs testing
Nov 28 02:06:30 <zerojay> Alright, alright...
Nov 28 02:06:39 * czr surrounds zerojay with fuzzy warm feeling
Nov 28 02:06:40 <timeless> ssh-keygen -t rsa
Nov 28 02:06:42 <zerojay> Just because I like the idea of Nokians begging.
Nov 28 02:06:44 <zerojay> ;)
Nov 28 02:06:46 <timeless> enter enter
Nov 28 02:06:59 * czr pretends to be a Nokie for a moment
Nov 28 02:07:07 <timeless> cat ~/.ssh/*.pub > ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
Nov 28 02:07:13 <timeless> then install
Nov 28 02:07:18 * timeless hopes that's about right
Nov 28 02:07:34 <czr> should be
Nov 28 02:07:51 <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ fgrep "`head -1 .ssh/authorized_keys`" .ssh/authorized_keys|wc -l
Nov 28 02:07:51 <timeless> 1
Nov 28 02:08:07 <czr> fgrep -c :-)
Nov 28 02:08:14 <czr> then remove the wc
Nov 28 02:08:38 <zerojay> Takes a while to generate the keys.
Nov 28 02:08:46 <czr> that's normal
Nov 28 02:08:51 <zerojay> Yeah, I know.
Nov 28 02:08:52 <czr> (slow cpu)
Nov 28 02:08:55 <timeless> czr: ok, there's a blank line in my file
Nov 28 02:09:01 <timeless> i guess that'll match all lines
Nov 28 02:09:03 <timeless> and not be added
Nov 28 02:09:05 <timeless> which is fine
Nov 28 02:09:28 <timeless> timeless@nexenta:~$ fgrep -n "`tail -1 .ssh/authorized_keys`" .ssh/authorized_keys|tail -1
Nov 28 02:09:28 <timeless> 6:
Nov 28 02:10:19 <timeless> czr: does busybox support functions?
Nov 28 02:10:25 * timeless wonders what a function looks like
Nov 28 02:10:31 <czr> timeless, not sure. best you test yourself
Nov 28 02:10:38 <timeless> yuck!
Nov 28 02:10:42 <czr> ok ok. I'll test
Nov 28 02:10:49 <halley> Making an id.pub on a pocket device is useless; never let a heavy machine trust an easily-stealable machine.
Nov 28 02:10:50 <_Monkey> i already had it that way, halley.
Nov 28 02:10:55 * timeless doesn't even know how to write them
Nov 28 02:11:12 <timeless> halley: the question is: is it ok to let a pocket device trust itself?
Nov 28 02:11:16 <timeless> that's the primary task here
Nov 28 02:11:20 <zerojay> k, keys generated, cat done. What now?
Nov 28 02:11:22 <czr> timeless, works: foo () { \n echo foo \n }
Nov 28 02:11:30 <halley> You ssh to root@localhost?
Nov 28 02:11:32 <timeless> zerojay: now try installing the deb again
Nov 28 02:11:34 <czr> although you'll have to be careful with variables and such
Nov 28 02:11:36 <zerojay> k
Nov 28 02:11:37 <timeless> halley: yes
Nov 28 02:11:42 <halley> Wacky.
Nov 28 02:11:56 <czr> halley, although you can also ssh root@n8foo from outside too
Nov 28 02:12:11 <timeless> czr: much harder, have to find ip
Nov 28 02:12:21 <czr> timeless, no it's not :-)
Nov 28 02:12:22 <halley> czr, you can, though best practices locks off root@ entirely, and you sudo up from a user as required.
Nov 28 02:12:23 <timeless> 127.1 is so convenient :)
Nov 28 02:12:46 <czr> halley, yes, and linux is a variant of unix.
Nov 28 02:13:16 <timeless> alley: best practices aren't found on this device :)
Nov 28 02:13:32 <timeless> and out of the box, there's no password for user
Nov 28 02:13:40 <timeless> besides, passwords are bad
Nov 28 02:13:44 <timeless> they're guessable
Nov 28 02:13:48 <zerojay> timeless: Install failed. postinst: line 19: syntax error: end of file unexpected (expecting "then")
Nov 28 02:13:56 <czr> thanks zerojay
Nov 28 02:14:05 <timeless> oh oops!
Nov 28 02:14:11 * timeless was switching syntaxes
Nov 28 02:14:15 <zerojay> Subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2.
Nov 28 02:14:19 <czr> timeless, indent, indent, indent!
Nov 28 02:14:26 <czr> zerojay, you'll get a new version shortly :-)
Nov 28 02:14:36 <zerojay> I'm still in r&d mode.. does it matter for the moment?
Nov 28 02:14:39 <czr> you'll be surprised as to how shortly :-)
Nov 28 02:14:46 <timeless> reload
Nov 28 02:15:05 <czr> well. we were kind of hoping for the package to enable root access without forcing to set the device into r&d mode first. that's the whole idea in the package
Nov 28 02:15:11 <czr> but r&d shouldn't affect it.
Nov 28 02:15:12 <zerojay> Same error.
Nov 28 02:15:19 <timeless> u
Nov 28 02:15:42 <czr> hmm. does the device keep package cache?
Nov 28 02:15:48 <zerojay> Looks like it.
Nov 28 02:15:54 <zerojay> Said 0kb to download.
Nov 28 02:15:57 <czr> hmm. let me try the package on mine
Nov 28 02:15:58 <timeless> kick it
Nov 28 02:16:15 <timeless> in redpill ode i think there's a way to whack the cache
Nov 28 02:16:35 <halley> I guess mentioning version number bumps would go unheeded.  ;)
Nov 28 02:16:56 <timeless> there's a check mark "clean apt cache" in red pill mode
Nov 28 02:17:03 <timeless> halley: i'm not writing a changelog
Nov 28 02:17:11 <timeless> "fixed typo #32"
Nov 28 02:17:21 <czr> size 0.94 KB heh
Nov 28 02:17:28 <zerojay> timeless: It's already checked.
Nov 28 02:17:28 <czr> Install application? 2 kB
Nov 28 02:17:46 <timeless> czr: should it say 1?
Nov 28 02:17:48 <timeless> or 0?
Nov 28 02:18:10 <timeless> i picked 2 because the thing i hijacked had a bigger number and 2 sounded good :)
Nov 28 02:18:31 <timeless> zerojay: oh "Use MMC to download packages"
Nov 28 02:18:36 <timeless> clearly the packages are on the mmc :)
Nov 28 02:18:40 <czr> error parsing depends list
Nov 28 02:18:47 <timeless> czr: eh?
Nov 28 02:18:51 <czr> timeless, what will happen if you remove the fields that are empty in control at the moment?
Nov 28 02:18:58 <timeless> dunno
Nov 28 02:19:01 <timeless> should i?
Nov 28 02:19:07 <czr> hmm
Nov 28 02:19:11 <zerojay> timeless: Already checked.
Nov 28 02:19:20 <czr> that'd from /usr/bin/dpkg-deb -f '/var/tmp/capture-root-0.1.deb'
Nov 28 02:19:25 <timeless> zerojay: yeah, but that means that's where ti's caching it
Nov 28 02:19:30 <zerojay> oh, ok
Nov 28 02:19:36 <timeless> you should be able to find it on /media/mmc1/ i'd bet
Nov 28 02:19:40 <czr> I'll try it on cmdline
Nov 28 02:20:54 <czr> hmm. I'm hitting exit 1 without errors on mine
Nov 28 02:21:19 <timeless> odd
Nov 28 02:21:41 * timeless fixes indentation of exit 1
Nov 28 02:21:50 <czr> hmm. running the script manually works
Nov 28 02:21:52 <timeless> oh
Nov 28 02:21:59 <timeless> did i forget to do "export"?
Nov 28 02:22:06 <timeless> i think i need export FOUNDKEYS
Nov 28 02:22:06 <czr> where?
Nov 28 02:22:12 <czr> why?
Nov 28 02:22:19 <timeless> test isn't a builtin, right?
Nov 28 02:22:30 <czr> ahhh
Nov 28 02:22:32 <czr> yes
Nov 28 02:22:34 <timeless> hrm, no, it's going to evaluate
Nov 28 02:22:40 <czr> and I didn't notice that the exit code was actually 1 now
Nov 28 02:22:44 <czr> since the script was silent
Nov 28 02:22:47 <czr> why is it silent?
Nov 28 02:23:08 <timeless> ok, new up
Nov 28 02:23:15 <timeless> export FOUNDKEYS
Nov 28 02:23:16 <czr> timeless, bleh. add exit 0 as the last line
Nov 28 02:23:18 <timeless> if test -z "$FOUNDKEYS"; then
Nov 28 02:23:21 <czr> it's not the export
Nov 28 02:23:24 <timeless> oh yuck
Nov 28 02:23:29 <czr> the last test will fail
Nov 28 02:23:35 <czr> and that will remain the exit code for the whole script
Nov 28 02:23:36 <timeless> oh right
Nov 28 02:23:50 <timeless> pushed
Nov 28 02:24:03 <czr> yeah, give me a sec :-). I'll have to undone stuff first ;-)
Nov 28 02:24:10 <timeless> heh
Nov 28 02:24:26 <timeless> i suppose we could write a version that could postrm
Nov 28 02:24:44 <timeless> basically record which entries we add and then use some really evil magic to fgrep -v remove them? :)
Nov 28 02:24:47 <czr> no you can't. too difficult
Nov 28 02:24:58 <czr> what if used manually edits the key-list in between the two?
Nov 28 02:25:04 <czr> you really want to handle that logic in a shell script?
Nov 28 02:25:08 <timeless> i think it's doable
Nov 28 02:25:17 <czr> it's doable. just not worth it
Nov 28 02:25:20 <timeless> remember each line as they're added to a file
Nov 28 02:25:25 <timeless> and then singly remove them
Nov 28 02:25:28 <timeless> but leave the file
Nov 28 02:25:31 <czr> I just wish that there'd be at least some version of python on the device
Nov 28 02:25:36 <timeless> of course, second install would complain
Nov 28 02:25:42 * timeless shrugs
Nov 28 02:25:49 <timeless> i'd have written this in perl :)
Nov 28 02:27:08 <czr> I hate perl
Nov 28 02:27:23 <czr> and don't get me wrong, I've written large programs in perl
Nov 28 02:27:30 <czr> I hate it anyway :-)
Nov 28 02:27:37 <czr> the package installs now
Nov 28 02:27:57 <czr> the scenario that was tested was: /root/.ssh/authorized_keys existed already
Nov 28 02:28:03 <czr> device is not in r&d mode
Nov 28 02:28:46 * czr woots in silence.
Nov 28 02:30:34 * sp3000 grumbles at im
Nov 28 02:30:43 <czr> hmm. I wonder how difficult it would be to make a proper gainroot
Nov 28 02:30:53 <czr> without all the r&d silliness and without touching /usr/sbin/gainroot
Nov 28 02:33:29 <czr> derf, the rleacs with fast adapt do have quite impressive gain. too bad they're almost twice as slow as bzip2
Nov 28 02:33:48 <czr> decompression speed is 3-4x slower too
Nov 28 02:34:06 <czr> derf, thanks for the link though.
Nov 28 02:39:20 <halley> Wow, what the heck is nw.qt ?
Nov 28 02:39:26 * sp3000 flashes some more
Nov 28 02:39:43 <timeless> sp3000: oh, do you not have access to corporate mail from home?
Nov 28 02:39:50 <timeless> i sent your work address the patch...
Nov 28 02:39:51 <sp3000> I don't
Nov 28 02:40:16 <timeless> ok, replied w/ patch
Nov 28 02:40:27 * sp3000 tries again with correct image
Nov 28 02:44:07 * czr tries to find out the minimal way to divert dhclient generated /etc/resolv.conf to some other place
Nov 28 02:44:21 <timeless> chroot ;-)
Nov 28 02:44:37 <czr> suggestions are welcome. ones not involving touching any configuration files are scripts are more so.
Nov 28 02:44:43 * czr puts timeless in a chroot
Nov 28 02:44:53 <timeless> can i get home?
Nov 28 02:45:07 <czr> sure
Nov 28 02:45:13 <czr> mkdir ${HOME} :-)
Nov 28 02:45:16 <czr> then cd
Nov 28 02:45:29 <timeless> i used to do HOME=/tmp/timeless; mkdir $HOME; cd $HOME
Nov 28 02:45:30 <halley> Is timeless still at work?
Nov 28 02:45:35 <timeless> yes?
Nov 28 02:45:39 <czr> poor timeless
Nov 28 02:45:58 <timeless> poor? falafel closes @5am
Nov 28 02:46:01 <timeless> it's 15til
Nov 28 02:46:05 <czr> heh
Nov 28 02:46:15 <czr> well, soon the other places start opening up :-)
Nov 28 02:46:32 <timeless> name 2?
Nov 28 02:46:43 <czr> mac-donalds and hesburger
Nov 28 02:46:45 * czr hides & runs
Nov 28 02:46:54 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Nov 28 02:47:08 * timeless throws "french fries" @czr
Nov 28 02:47:18 <czr> reminds me of one funny thing
Nov 28 02:47:26 <czr> in a bar/disco/restarurant back in shanghai
Nov 28 02:47:37 <czr> on the drinks menu they had snacks and everything
Nov 28 02:47:43 <czr> they also had "fried french"
Nov 28 02:48:00 <czr> although a nice jazz-lounge I used to frequent had "screw driver"
Nov 28 02:48:05 <czr> never tested it though.
Nov 28 02:55:17 <halley> Lots of mixed drinks are named funny/sexy names in US.  Not everywhere?
Nov 28 02:55:28 <czr> they are
Nov 28 02:55:33 <halley> screwdriver = orange-juice + vodka
Nov 28 02:55:33 <czr> pretty much everywhere
Nov 28 02:55:50 <czr> I know what the drink is. that wasn't the point.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Nov 28 02:59:56 2007