**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 08 02:59:57 2007
Dec 08 03:17:04 <Luria> what kind of push email support is there for the n800/10?
Dec 08 03:27:13 <fysa> imap/pop3
Dec 08 03:27:51 <fysa> few different apps
Dec 08 03:29:08 <Luria> right, but im looking for push
Dec 08 03:29:24 <Luria> even imap idle would do
Dec 08 03:42:56 <TheFool2> anyone here ever bother to teach the n770 etc your handwriting?
Dec 08 04:23:48 <pupnik> moohoo
Dec 08 04:44:28 <lopz> re
Dec 08 04:48:16 <doublec> minefield with the <video> implementation builds under maemo
Dec 08 04:48:36 <doublec> unfortunately I don't have os2008 on my device yet to test
Dec 08 06:42:05 <skibur_> hello
Dec 08 06:43:13 <foods> hi skibur_
Dec 08 06:43:39 <skibur_> do you have a n800?
Dec 08 06:44:17 <foods> yeah I have four of them, they are great
Dec 08 06:44:29 <celesteh> fours of them?
Dec 08 06:44:37 <skibur_> http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Blackberry-Handhelds/dp/B0002OKCXE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1197095918&sr=1-1
Dec 08 06:44:39 <foods> yeah, i'm a true collector
Dec 08 06:44:49 <skibur_> does that keyboard work for N800?
Dec 08 06:44:50 <celesteh> one in every jacket pocket?
Dec 08 06:44:59 <foods> yes it works skibur_
Dec 08 06:45:03 <astro76> skibur_, yes it's great
Dec 08 06:45:11 <skibur_> 29.99?
Dec 08 06:45:14 <astro76> skibur_, get it quick before the price goes down
Dec 08 06:45:20 <skibur_> 80% saving?
Dec 08 06:45:23 <astro76> indeed
Dec 08 06:45:29 <foods> US marketing trick :)
Dec 08 06:45:39 <astro76> yeah they adjust the MSRP often
Dec 08 06:45:41 <foods> giving you the idea of making a fantastic deal
Dec 08 06:45:58 <astro76> still it's over half off what it was
Dec 08 06:46:09 <skibur_> :)
Dec 08 06:46:22 <celesteh> it's also a lot cheaper than i've seen keyboards like that in the eu
Dec 08 06:46:33 <skibur_> is that the best keyboard yet?
Dec 08 06:46:33 <astro76> and fully BT HID keyboard compliant
Dec 08 06:47:05 <glass_> it's a very nice kb
Dec 08 06:47:10 <glass_> batts last forever
Dec 08 06:47:13 <glass_> or at least seem to
Dec 08 06:47:14 <skibur_> hum...
Dec 08 06:47:15 <astro76> skibur_, I'm entirely pleased with it
Dec 08 06:47:23 <skibur_> cool
Dec 08 06:47:29 <glass_> with 770 it was very pleasant, just open and start typing
Dec 08 06:47:29 <skibur_> purchasing now
Dec 08 06:47:31 <skibur_> :P
Dec 08 06:49:40 <skibur_> What about the thinkoutside Stowaway keyboard
Dec 08 06:49:47 <astro76> the full sized?
Dec 08 06:49:50 <skibur_> is it the same as the iGo?
Dec 08 06:50:20 <astro76> yeah igo is thinkoutside now
Dec 08 06:50:26 <astro76> there's the stowaway and stowaway ultra-slim
Dec 08 06:50:39 <astro76> stowaway is twice as thick folded, has 3 hinges instead of 1, and doesn't lock in the middle
Dec 08 06:50:48 <astro76> but has fifth row for number keys
Dec 08 06:51:03 <zoran> 12'' laptop could do the same
Dec 08 06:51:51 <skibur_> iGo Stowaway Ultra-Slim Bluetooth Keyboard
Dec 08 06:51:59 <skibur_> is smaller
Dec 08 06:52:42 <glass_> stowaway sierra has a numbers row tho
Dec 08 06:52:56 <glass_> ah you mentioned then
Dec 08 06:53:16 <glass_> the biggest problem with the kb there was a link some lines ago is the lack of numbers row
Dec 08 06:53:37 <glass_> takes time to adjust to using terminal with it
Dec 08 06:53:37 <astro76> you need to use the left Fn key for the numbers
Dec 08 06:53:51 <astro76> a couple of other keys are in odd positions, but it's mostly standard
Dec 08 06:54:11 <glass_> having to press the fn key isn't as bad as having to press "wrong" buttons for the numbers
Dec 08 06:54:20 <glass_> and special chars
Dec 08 06:54:34 <astro76> yeah indeed, the symbols are on the correct numbers too
Dec 08 06:55:05 <skibur_> overall, the Ultra-Slim is great
Dec 08 06:55:44 <astro76> and for $30 it's a no-brainer
Dec 08 06:56:09 <glass_> yeah
Dec 08 06:56:12 <glass_> a real bargain
Dec 08 06:56:18 <skibur_> ok
Dec 08 06:56:20 <skibur_> done
Dec 08 06:56:26 <skibur_> will arrive Monday
Dec 08 06:56:28 <skibur_> :P
Dec 08 06:56:31 <glass_> hehe
Dec 08 06:56:35 <astro76> woohoo :p
Dec 08 06:56:40 <skibur_> lol
Dec 08 06:56:51 <glass_> i should dig up mine from the closet
Dec 08 06:56:57 <glass_> for some quake on n95
Dec 08 06:57:01 <skibur_> lol
Dec 08 06:59:10 <Luria> wow
Dec 08 06:59:16 <Luria> much cheaper these days
Dec 08 06:59:44 <glass_> yeah
Dec 08 06:59:48 <Luria> my decision now is what cellphone to get
Dec 08 06:59:49 <glass_> was 100+ when i got it
Dec 08 06:59:57 <Luria> yeah, sucks to be us
Dec 08 07:00:05 <glass_> well it was a number of years ago
Dec 08 07:00:23 <glass_> 2.5y or something
Dec 08 07:00:24 <Luria> mine was bought in july (though b&m)
Dec 08 07:00:36 <astro76> I can't figure why amazon is selling it so cheap... but am not complaining
Dec 08 07:00:46 <glass_> astro76: probably phasing it out
Dec 08 07:00:56 <Luria> sigh i love the htc tilt
Dec 08 07:00:56 <glass_> like said, it isn't exactly a new model
Dec 08 07:01:24 <glass_> wm phone is a bit of a waste with a maemo device
Dec 08 07:01:27 <Luria> i know
Dec 08 07:01:30 <Luria> i know
Dec 08 07:01:46 <Luria> but, it is one of the few phones with triband hsdpa
Dec 08 07:02:00 <Luria> and i may need push email
Dec 08 07:02:20 <glass_> it has both usa and europe freqs hsdpa?
Dec 08 07:02:27 <Luria> yeah it has 2100mhz
Dec 08 07:02:29 <glass_> ah yeah
Dec 08 07:02:34 <glass_> well
Dec 08 07:02:39 <glass_> how oftern will you 3g roam?
Dec 08 07:02:44 <glass_> and afford it too...
Dec 08 07:03:02 <Luria> i dunno, but if i do it would be a business expense
Dec 08 07:03:22 <glass_> biggest problem with 3g is that roaming is in generally expensive
Dec 08 07:03:28 <Luria> but i need a 3.6mb 3g device that does push
Dec 08 07:03:40 <Luria> and there are few options outside of wm phones
Dec 08 07:04:03 <Luria> if the n800 had a push email client i would use the k850i
Dec 08 07:04:25 <Luria> which is one of the few non smartphones to do 3.6mb triband
Dec 08 07:05:56 <Luria> sigh... all i really want is a b/w quad gsm, intl 3g, phone that is 70% battery
Dec 08 07:06:10 <Luria> and a push email client for maemo :-)
Dec 08 07:06:22 <Luria> i would be very happy
Dec 08 07:06:25 <glass_> don't forget you might want edge and not all phones that do gsm and 3g don't have it
Dec 08 07:06:35 <Luria> true
Dec 08 07:06:47 <glass_> double negative
Dec 08 07:06:54 <glass_> i blame it on it being so early
Dec 08 07:07:11 <Luria> dont worry, i grokked
Dec 08 07:07:22 <Luria> most do, btw
Dec 08 07:07:28 <glass_> yeah
Dec 08 07:07:32 <Luria> esp the tribands because of europe
Dec 08 07:07:46 <glass_> se at one point had a habit of not doing it
Dec 08 07:07:47 <Luria> excuse me, other way around
Dec 08 07:08:06 <Luria> because of the us, where edge is more coverage than hsdpa
Dec 08 07:08:23 <glass_> outside of cities it's hard to find 3g here(finland)
Dec 08 07:08:27 <glass_> edge is pretty much everywhere
Dec 08 07:08:33 <glass_> in the woods, in island outskirts..
Dec 08 07:08:45 <Luria> well, 95% of the rest of my life will be in nyc :-)
Dec 08 07:08:47 <glass_> i'm on 3g now btw
Dec 08 07:09:09 <Luria> what phone?
Dec 08 07:09:12 <glass_> n95
Dec 08 07:09:20 <glass_> tethered to laptop
Dec 08 07:09:22 <glass_> via bt
Dec 08 07:09:32 <glass_> almost as good as cheap dsl
Dec 08 07:09:41 <Luria> i would get a symbian nokia if they put good 3g modems in them
Dec 08 07:10:00 <glass_> i only got 384kbps enabled on my plan
Dec 08 07:10:07 <glass_> tops out at 40kbyte/s or so
Dec 08 07:10:16 <Luria> up or down?
Dec 08 07:10:19 <glass_> down
Dec 08 07:10:20 <glass_> dunno up
Dec 08 07:10:25 <glass_> haven't tested really
Dec 08 07:10:37 <astro76> that's typical upstream in the US
Dec 08 07:10:40 <Luria> att is 384/3.6m
Dec 08 07:10:48 <glass_> pings are around 120-160ms now
Dec 08 07:10:52 <Luria> wow
Dec 08 07:11:00 <glass_> they used to be higher than 200+
Dec 08 07:11:02 <Luria> no voip then :-)
Dec 08 07:11:15 <glass_> but they did something for the network las tyear
Dec 08 07:11:31 <glass_> 2mbit/s is highest they offer here
Dec 08 07:11:47 <glass_> but 384 is like 10 euros/month
Dec 08 07:12:21 <glass_> 3dge pings are 250-350 or so
Dec 08 07:12:27 <glass_> grhh.. edge
Dec 08 07:12:28 <Luria> http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/finder_results.php?m=s&w=s&wor=r&g8r=r&f38r=r&f30r=r&f30_12=y&f30_13=y
Dec 08 07:12:31 <Luria> short list
Dec 08 07:12:47 <Luria> and shorter when you do triband hsdpa
Dec 08 07:13:07 <glass_> yeah nokia doesn't have too many usa freq phones anyways
Dec 08 07:13:13 <glass_> usa 3g freqs
Dec 08 07:13:33 <glass_> n95-nam, some other n-series and thats it i think
Dec 08 07:13:46 <Luria> yeah, ive only seen them at the nokia store
Dec 08 07:13:54 <Luria> (ie flagship  nyc)
Dec 08 07:14:31 <glass_> (i'm a symbian freak via hobby-turned-to-work so i don't know that much outside of them)
Dec 08 07:15:16 <Luria> i take it that no one knows of a push (or even imap idle) client for maemo?
Dec 08 07:16:52 <glass_> imap idle i'd imagine there being
Dec 08 07:17:01 <glass_> but keeping your n800 powered up 100% of time..
Dec 08 07:17:20 <Luria> why not? the mail client polls on wifi
Dec 08 07:17:31 <Luria> enough for 10hours of on time
Dec 08 07:18:06 <glass_> will the wifi last for 10 hours when on?
Dec 08 07:18:19 <Luria> yeah, if its just idling
Dec 08 07:18:22 <glass_> ok's
Dec 08 07:18:41 <Luria> 3 hours of hard use will kill it
Dec 08 07:19:34 <glass_> tinymail supports push?
Dec 08 07:21:20 <Ed77> hi, Can anybody answer gtk and maemo programming questions here?
Dec 08 07:22:41 <Luria> glass_, it does?
Dec 08 07:24:23 <glass_> Luria: they have demos of it on their webpage at least
Dec 08 07:24:36 <Luria> yeah i see that
Dec 08 07:24:48 <Luria> that would be hot for the stack email to handle it for me
Dec 08 07:49:18 <Anastasia> I see maemo.org is dead in the water again :-(.
Dec 08 07:49:27 <Anastasia> Finished up my USB Power injector tonight, should be able to test some USB stuff now.
Dec 08 07:49:34 <vlad_> works fine here?
Dec 08 07:49:48 <Anastasia> Damnifiknow, it is flakey as hell here.
Dec 08 07:50:04 <Anastasia> memcache handler: Failed to connect to localhost:11211.
Dec 08 07:50:27 <Anastasia> About the 4th try.
Dec 08 07:51:33 <Anastasia> Same thing on main, 2007 and 2008 pages.  It will probably work when I get up in the morning, usually does.
Dec 08 07:52:02 <Anastasia> Early morning or late night has been best for it, now it looks like *maybe* early morning...
Dec 08 08:12:35 <Anastasia> Night folks!
Dec 08 09:07:25 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Dec 08 09:40:05 <limepi> would it be possible to stream video from os x to an n800
Dec 08 09:40:22 <limepi> over wifi
Dec 08 13:26:30 <jsnewby> Hi all, I have a question regarding gpesyncd which I would appreciate some help with
Dec 08 13:51:01 <GeneralAntilles> The best strategy is to just ask away, jsnewby.
Dec 08 13:51:07 <GeneralAntilles> If somebody knows the answer, they will give it to you.
Dec 08 13:51:09 <jsnewby> heh thanks
Dec 08 13:51:13 <GeneralAntilles> If not, ask again in a few hours.
Dec 08 13:52:47 <jsnewby> I'm just got an N800, and want to retire my palm pilot.  I've installed the GPE apps and am trying to write an Apple synchronisation service client to mediate between the two.  When I try to connect to the socket after running gpesyncd -d, I get this error when writing a vcard: Error: syntax error (missing attribute name/group)
Dec 08 13:52:55 <jsnewby> I do not get this error when using ssh
Dec 08 13:54:16 <jsnewby> anyone have any magic to suggest?
Dec 08 14:58:43 <lopz> re
Dec 08 15:42:46 <TheFool2> What has been going on in this channel recently? All I see is people entering and leaving, no conversations.
Dec 08 15:43:10 <halley> Er, Saturday AM?
Dec 08 15:43:38 <TheFool2> I guess, but the last few days I haven't really seen anyone on
Dec 08 15:44:06 <halley> They're out shopping?
Dec 08 15:44:17 <zoran> that means all problems were solved
Dec 08 15:44:29 <TheFool2> zoran: that must be it!
Dec 08 15:44:34 <TheFool2> :)
Dec 08 15:46:12 <TheFool2> I have heard a lot of talk about how bad the handwriting recognition is for the tablets, but I finally started playing with it today. It sucks by default, but if you disable all of their preset characters and teach it only yours it actually seems to work quite well
Dec 08 15:46:58 <TheFool2> The only problem I am having is I want to reteach the punctuation, and I can't figure out how to do that
Dec 08 15:57:10 <halley> How can I remove the original items from the panels/menus?  I don't want the gizmo,skype,rhapsody icons clogging the menu.
Dec 08 15:57:22 <halley> For those items, the menu organizer disables 'Delete'.
Dec 08 15:58:15 <DM|> I was looking on buying the N810, it can do stuff other than music/internet/gps right? you can treat it like a PDA?
Dec 08 15:58:32 <glass_> anything you can find an app for
Dec 08 15:58:38 <kulve> DM|: how do you want to treat your PDA?
Dec 08 15:59:03 <DM|> calender syncing, to do lists , calcs, maybe even a LITTLE spreadsheet ?
Dec 08 15:59:12 <zerojay> I wanna treat my tablet like a whore.
Dec 08 15:59:28 <DM|> maybe even an IRC app ??
Dec 08 15:59:31 <glass_> zerojay: pay it to fuck up and then forget it in some sleazy motel?
Dec 08 15:59:43 <zerojay> You got it.
Dec 08 16:00:00 <kulve> DM|: I use it ircing with xterm+ssh. Works very well.
Dec 08 16:00:11 <zerojay> You can also use XChat.
Dec 08 16:00:18 <kulve> DM|: I know there are calendar, todo, spreadsheet, but I don't know too much about those..
Dec 08 16:00:20 <DM|> .... So it has a terminal ?
Dec 08 16:00:27 <kulve> DM|: sure
Dec 08 16:00:32 <DM|> sweet
Dec 08 16:00:35 <kulve> comes with the 2008 even
Dec 08 16:00:49 <zerojay> 2008 has it included by default.
Dec 08 16:00:55 <kulve> although it's not as good as the other version..
Dec 08 16:01:01 <kulve> (imo)
Dec 08 16:01:37 <kulve> DM|: try google "gpe calendar maemo".. Maybe that tells you more about that..
Dec 08 16:01:46 <DM|> thanks : P
Dec 08 16:02:13 <DM|> Oooh it will be interesting to SSH to my server and do shit without having to lug my laptop around
Dec 08 16:02:57 <kulve> DM|: interesting indeed. I had to debug exim4 issues with the n800's virtual keyboard once. Not very convenient..
Dec 08 16:03:33 <DM|> N810 has a qwerty though :) and i wouldnt buy a N800
Dec 08 16:03:41 <DM|> qwerty is the big selling point for me
Dec 08 16:03:54 <kulve> yeah, the qwerty is probably a lot nicer for typing
Dec 08 16:04:55 <zoran> pen is not so bad as it looks
Dec 08 16:05:45 <TheFool2> kulve: what worries me about the 810 keyboard is that top row
Dec 08 16:06:02 <DM|> Ive had the pen on my PDAs and smartphone, i hate vkeyboards
Dec 08 16:10:03 <GeneralAntilles> Pfft, the thumbboard is the shit.
Dec 08 16:10:19 <GeneralAntilles> 40wpm average.
Dec 08 16:10:49 <zoran> w == word ?
Dec 08 16:10:56 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Dec 08 16:11:02 <GeneralAntilles> world?
Dec 08 16:11:02 <zoran> not bad
Dec 08 16:11:06 <zoran> :)
Dec 08 16:11:09 <kulve> and how much with the vkb?
Dec 08 16:11:12 <kulve> 2?
Dec 08 16:11:20 <GeneralAntilles> Haven't bothered to benchmark
Dec 08 16:11:21 <zoran> ah, more
Dec 08 16:11:25 <GeneralAntilles> Probably 20-ish
Dec 08 16:11:31 <zoran> about
Dec 08 16:11:42 <kulve> so, the thumbone is like twice as fast..
Dec 08 16:11:42 <GeneralAntilles> I can thumb the vkb pretty well, too.
Dec 08 16:11:58 <GeneralAntilles> AND I still have 2 SD slots.
Dec 08 16:12:40 <zoran> full size kb is better. nokia solution would be to make user smaller.
Dec 08 16:12:54 <GeneralAntilles> Hardware keyboard is a waste.
Dec 08 16:13:10 <GeneralAntilles> Unless I can touch-type on it, it's not worth it.
Dec 08 16:13:52 <zoran> there is some project of "projecting" kb on the table
Dec 08 16:14:01 <GeneralAntilles> That's more garbage.
Dec 08 16:14:04 <GeneralAntilles> Have you actually used one?
Dec 08 16:14:09 <zoran> never
Dec 08 16:14:17 <zoran> and don't want
Dec 08 16:14:17 <GeneralAntilles> I have—garbage. :)
Dec 08 16:14:31 <kulve> GeneralAntilles: maybe you should just buy a laptop and be happy with it..
Dec 08 16:14:42 <GeneralAntilles> Why?
Dec 08 16:14:48 <GeneralAntilles> Laptops are expensive and heavy as hell.
Dec 08 16:14:54 <GeneralAntilles> My N800 is my best friend.
Dec 08 16:15:00 <zoran> eee?
Dec 08 16:15:16 <GeneralAntilles> For the same resolution as my N800?
Dec 08 16:15:19 <kulve> GeneralAntilles: well, stop using electronics at all. No need to use shit and garbage any more
Dec 08 16:15:30 <GeneralAntilles> I'm afraid you've misunderstood me, kulve.
Dec 08 16:15:43 <GeneralAntilles> The point I'm trying to make, is that the N810's keyboard is wasteful for me.
Dec 08 16:15:48 <GeneralAntilles> I want storage
Dec 08 16:15:56 <zoran> most web sites are not so fien looking at 800x480
Dec 08 16:15:57 <GeneralAntilles> not a hardware keyboard that's barely usable.
Dec 08 16:16:12 <GeneralAntilles> I can type 40wpm on the N800's thumbboard.
Dec 08 16:16:16 <GeneralAntilles> Why would I buy a laptop?
Dec 08 16:16:29 <zoran> what kind of storage?
Dec 08 16:16:38 <GeneralAntilles> 2x16GB SDHC kind of storage. ;)
Dec 08 16:16:54 <zoran> not a dream, as I see it
Dec 08 16:16:54 <shackan> GeneralAntilles: 40wpm without smearing the screen?
Dec 08 16:17:13 <GeneralAntilles> shackan, I'm not an auto-mechanic.
Dec 08 16:17:16 <GeneralAntilles> My hands are quite clean.
Dec 08 16:17:22 <zoran> hdd is not solution as it takes too much power
Dec 08 16:17:36 <GeneralAntilles> Uh, obviously.
Dec 08 16:17:53 <zoran> you could wait a year to see it, I think
Dec 08 16:17:54 <shackan> GeneralAntilles: well, whenever I touch the screen I can see my fingerprints
Dec 08 16:18:05 <zoran> goooooooooooooooood!
Dec 08 16:18:16 <zoran> lite work for police
Dec 08 16:18:27 <shackan> police?
Dec 08 16:18:33 <zoran> csi
Dec 08 16:18:48 <zoran> miami, las vegas...
Dec 08 16:18:49 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.boxwave.com/products/cleartouch/cleartouch-screen-protector-nokia-n800_2569.htm
Dec 08 16:18:53 <GeneralAntilles> You need one of those, shackan.
Dec 08 16:19:01 <GeneralAntilles> It's closer to the surface texture of paper.
Dec 08 16:19:07 <GeneralAntilles> Doesn't smear like the bare screen.
Dec 08 16:19:29 <GeneralAntilles> Also: wash your hands. :P
Dec 08 16:20:16 <shackan> oh, cool
Dec 08 16:21:00 <GeneralAntilles> I also recommend typing with your fingertips/nails rather than the pads of your thumbs
Dec 08 16:21:06 <GeneralAntilles> a lot cleaner and a lot more effective.
Dec 08 16:21:14 <GeneralAntilles> and don't let your fingers linger
Dec 08 16:21:16 <GeneralAntilles> it's not multitouch
Dec 08 16:21:33 <GeneralAntilles> so having two fingers down at the same time will get you a letter somewhere in the middle.
Dec 08 16:21:55 <zoran> this technique could be tricky for standard kb letter
Dec 08 16:22:11 <zoran> *latter
Dec 08 16:22:47 <GeneralAntilles> It's basically the opposite of the iPhone keyboard.
Dec 08 16:22:54 <GeneralAntilles> iPhone likes you to fat finger all the keys
Dec 08 16:23:18 <GeneralAntilles> The NITs like you to use small, clean points of contact.
Dec 08 16:23:55 <zoran> sharpen fingers?
Dec 08 16:24:05 <GeneralAntilles> Just use the tips/nails.
Dec 08 16:24:14 <zoran> no nails
Dec 08 16:24:23 <GeneralAntilles> You chew them?
Dec 08 16:24:42 <zoran> almost, cut them regularly.
Dec 08 16:25:23 <GeneralAntilles> I've got about 1mm of nail and it works fine
Dec 08 16:25:31 <zoran> personal techniques are so unique for person invented it
Dec 08 16:25:40 <zoran> I have no 1 mm of it
Dec 08 16:25:51 <GeneralAntilles> Then use the tips.
Dec 08 16:26:04 <zoran> ah, I like pointer on my 770
Dec 08 16:26:14 <zoran> and ssh for longer message
Dec 08 16:27:36 <zoran> and e51 has wifi + voip included, I see now
Dec 08 16:28:04 <GeneralAntilles> halley, just install skype then uninstall it.
Dec 08 16:33:13 <guardian> does OS2008 support CJK ?
Dec 08 16:34:08 <GeneralAntilles> Not 100% yet.
Dec 08 16:34:14 <GeneralAntilles> It's coming.
Dec 08 16:38:14 <Andy80> hi all
Dec 08 16:43:53 <halley> guardian, I installed the maemocjk.garage package on my N810 and it works, but it's definitely alpha status.
Dec 08 16:44:20 <halley> guardian, I had to reflash after trying it once, then got it working.  Be careful.
Dec 08 16:45:04 <guardian> i'm curious about one thing
Dec 08 16:45:18 <guardian> appart from the input method
Dec 08 16:45:40 <halley> ?
Dec 08 16:45:44 <guardian> do the new CJK fonts replace the default fonts of the device (like the font used in the system menus) ?
Dec 08 16:46:04 <guardian> or does it just offer CJK fonts i can select as part of a font selection dialogbox, like when using notes application or maemopad ?
Dec 08 16:47:08 <halley> GTK stack in general uses pango for glyph selection.  If you say you want font X, you get font X except where glyphs are missing.
Dec 08 16:47:33 <halley> Thus the menus, etc. don't all switch and look funny, just because you add a new font to support some characters.
Dec 08 16:49:21 <halley> You CAN choose to use mincho as a font for your text file, but you don't even have to.  It will say "dang, he used a funny character not in the usual Courier, oh, wait, mincho font can draw that one."
Dec 08 16:49:57 <halley> That's one thing that really works very cleanly in GTK in my experience.  You don't get surprises or hassles with the fonts.
Dec 08 16:50:31 <guardian> so any application outputting CJK unicode characters will get squares being displayed if it sticks with the default font
Dec 08 16:50:54 <halley> If you have NO font for a glyph, it will draw mojibake (the crap boxes).
Dec 08 16:51:31 <halley> If you have at least one font for a glyph, it will prefer your chosen font but fall back to other fonts automatically.
Dec 08 16:51:35 <guardian> it would be cool if there was a single font capable of displaying any unicode character :)
Dec 08 16:52:31 <halley> guardian, considering Unicode is built to be table-based, that's unlikely.  Plus, the Chinese might look great but the Arabic or Tengwar (Tolkien Faenorian Elvish) might look bad.
Dec 08 16:53:32 <halley> guerby, fix that.
Dec 08 16:53:35 <halley> ;)
Dec 08 16:54:59 <GeneralAntilles> Is there a way to change to a font outside of "Monospace", "Serif", and "Sans" in the OS2008 xterm?
Dec 08 16:57:16 <guardian> i'll try to install the ttfs by hand
Dec 08 16:57:20 <guardian> i don't want to lose HIM
Dec 08 17:18:22 <foods> GeneralAntilles, you have to install the fonts first. Then it's possible.
Dec 08 17:18:32 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks, foods!
Dec 08 17:18:39 <foods> You're welcome GeneralAntilles
Dec 08 17:18:56 <foods> Anything else I can be of service with GeneralAntilles?
Dec 08 17:19:14 <L0cutus> if someone want to try, i've ported synergy to os2008: http://www.zamprogno.it/files/os2008/synergy_1.3.1-1_armel.deb
Dec 08 17:19:43 <pupnik> See if you can get it up to garage, L0cutus
Dec 08 17:20:11 <pupnik> and thx, i use synergy all the time
Dec 08 17:20:12 <foods> GeneralAntilles:Tto add new fonts simply create a /home/user/.fonts directory and put here all the fontts you need, reboot your device and you are done!
Dec 08 17:20:46 <Jaffa> pupnik: not much point having a garage project for every simple port. mud'd be a much better place, IMHO
Dec 08 17:20:50 <foods> yes I agree, synergy is the best, I use it all the time too
Dec 08 17:20:55 <L0cutus> pupnik, i'm totally noob to garage :)
Dec 08 17:21:04 <L0cutus> never used it
Dec 08 17:21:21 <foods> you should try it, it's the best
Dec 08 17:21:25 <pupnik> yes MUD
Dec 08 17:21:28 <Jaffa> L0cutus: <plug> http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org </plug>
Dec 08 17:21:42 <L0cutus> thanks Jaffa
Dec 08 17:22:37 <foods> do you guys all love your n800 as much as I do?
Dec 08 17:22:45 <guardian> L0cutus: i don't have my tablet at hand, does it display a cursor on the device now ?
Dec 08 17:24:08 <guardian> foods: no i don't
Dec 08 17:24:16 <foods> no?
Dec 08 17:24:52 <foods> you're not saying you don't have an n800, are you?
Dec 08 17:25:00 <guardian> i have a 770 and a N800
Dec 08 17:25:13 <guardian> and i find both of them mostly useless in my daily life :)
Dec 08 17:25:20 <guardian> however they are excellent dev and hacking platforms
Dec 08 17:25:29 <foods> dude do you have any idea how offensive it is to say things like that?
Dec 08 17:25:47 <dragorn> I find the 810 to be by far the most useful of the three
Dec 08 17:26:03 <foods> yes the n810 is much better.
Dec 08 17:26:11 <L0cutus> guardian, i've not tried it for now :)
Dec 08 17:26:48 <guardian> offensive ? :) i don't think so
Dec 08 17:27:24 <foods> it's blasphemy
Dec 08 17:27:32 <Jaffa> hardly
Dec 08 17:28:05 <Jaffa> "The iPhone is a competitor and does somethings better" - that's blasphemy to some (especially on ITT ;-))
Dec 08 17:28:23 <guardian> :)
Dec 08 17:28:39 <pupnik> it's vaguely a competitor in the sense that it does fit in a pocket and give some internet browsing capabilities
Dec 08 17:28:56 <guardian> maybe it's just because i did not find the time to use it long enough
Dec 08 17:29:31 <guardian> actually i browsed a little with my ipod touch and i prefer that to the tablet :(
Dec 08 17:29:52 <pupnik> interesting, what was good about it?
Dec 08 17:30:38 <GeneralAntilles> You're crazy, guardian.
Dec 08 17:31:29 <elb> the iphone browser seemed ok to me
Dec 08 17:34:46 <guardian> it's not objective i guess, maybe the fact that was enthusiastic  about it
Dec 08 17:34:52 <fysa> scrolling in microb is flawed.
Dec 08 17:35:00 <guardian> it's smooth
Dec 08 17:35:07 <guardian> meebo and youtube worked
Dec 08 17:35:25 <fysa> scrolling in the rss reader is much smoother
Dec 08 17:35:29 <guardian> that's more than i experienced in OS2007
Dec 08 17:36:19 <fysa> and the default about:config is so horrible it's no wonder people think it's molasses
Dec 08 17:37:10 <GeneralAntilles> On the iPhone, guardian?
Dec 08 17:37:16 <GeneralAntilles> The iPhone doesn't have flash.
Dec 08 17:37:26 <guardian> ipod touch
Dec 08 17:37:53 <fysa> they have their own youtube 'client' i think
Dec 08 17:37:54 <guardian> well now that you mention that, youtube is a separate app in fact
Dec 08 17:38:15 <fysa> which is the way it shpuld be anyw
Dec 08 17:38:20 <fysa> ay
Dec 08 17:38:34 <foods> N800 > iPhone
Dec 08 17:38:54 <fysa> that said, maemo still wins overall.
Dec 08 17:39:03 <guardian> foods: fanboyism leads to nowhere
Dec 08 17:39:04 <guardian> :)
Dec 08 17:39:20 <fysa> just needs a smoother browsing experience
Dec 08 17:39:45 <fysa> it's powerful but handicapped
Dec 08 17:40:13 <GeneralAntilles> It's worth noting that the "YouTube" on the iPhone isn't actually YouTube.
Dec 08 17:40:21 <GeneralAntilles>  /iPod Touch
Dec 08 17:40:23 <GeneralAntilles> Same difference
Dec 08 17:40:37 <guardian> and what's cool about iphone/ipod hacking is opengl es :)
Dec 08 17:40:56 <foods> guardian, just because you are an apple fanboy doesn't mean I suffer from the same illness
Dec 08 17:41:03 <guardian> haha i'm not
Dec 08 17:41:09 <guardian> you were talking about blasphemy
Dec 08 17:41:19 <fysa> it's not mobile youtube.  they just play the flvs in an accelerated player not silly flash
Dec 08 17:41:21 <GeneralAntilles> foods is just trolling.
Dec 08 17:41:23 <GeneralAntilles> Ignore him.
Dec 08 17:41:24 <pupnik> so is the scrolly/zoomy stuff on i* done with opengl es?
Dec 08 17:41:36 <elb> yes, being able to recognize flaws in products, regardless of one's overall impression, is a valuable skill which many lack
Dec 08 17:41:39 <GeneralAntilles> They aren't flvs, fysa, it's h.264
Dec 08 17:41:47 <pupnik> i'm having trouble seeing how hildon would make use of opengl in any sensible fashion
Dec 08 17:41:48 <guardian> i just said i find little use of my tablets, but i feel the same about the iphone, that's why i chose the pod since i never owned a mp3 player before
Dec 08 17:41:48 <foods> i'm not trolling, i'm gnoming
Dec 08 17:42:19 <fysa> scrolly stuff can be done with a ported firefox extension
Dec 08 17:42:34 <fysa> no gl neded
Dec 08 17:42:38 <guardian> pupnik: indeed
Dec 08 17:42:38 <fysa> no gl needed
Dec 08 17:43:01 <guardian> pupnik: but gl is used at a lower level i guess, comparable to what compiz/beryl and such do
Dec 08 17:43:08 <guardian> *more or less*
Dec 08 17:43:16 <pupnik> yes
Dec 08 17:43:43 <truent_> anyone know of an easy place to host my project.. its just for n800 to connect to a PAN bluetooth device like an at&t blackjack.. maybe like 20kb at most
Dec 08 17:43:53 <pupnik> nonetheless, for opengl to accelerate any fancy UI zoom/transposition, you'd need to write a new, limited, non-hildon UI for any particular app
Dec 08 17:44:00 <guardian> true
Dec 08 17:44:07 <pupnik> so for e.g. kagu, canola or whatever could use it
Dec 08 17:44:14 <fysa> http://grabanddrag.mozdev.org/
Dec 08 17:44:16 <pupnik> or you could write a totally non-hildon menu launcher
Dec 08 17:44:18 <guardian> or games
Dec 08 17:44:24 <pupnik> and keep the hildon stuff for backwards compatibility
Dec 08 17:44:27 <guardian> although for games there are psp and nds :)
Dec 08 17:44:33 <pupnik> but i have trouble seeing nokia go that route
Dec 08 17:44:53 <pupnik> yes i'd hoped the N810 would be the beginning of games-friendly controls
Dec 08 17:45:12 <pupnik> with the keyboard, there are plenty of 'buttons', but i haven't heard good things about the dpad
Dec 08 17:45:17 <halley> Yeah, the "dpad" actually sucks.
Dec 08 17:45:36 <fysa> the only way we will see kinetic scrolling/flicking is if someone ports that or non-nokia dev writes something.
Dec 08 17:46:00 <halley> truent_, garage.maemo.org
Dec 08 17:46:13 <pupnik> fysa, right - we're starting to see some apps designed around a more thumb-friendly, eye-candy-iphone approach
Dec 08 17:46:20 <pupnik> halley: you have the N810?
Dec 08 17:46:25 <halley> pupnik, aye
Dec 08 17:46:52 <fysa> i would absolutely love page flicking.  hit the screen then move finger swiftly
Dec 08 17:47:01 <pupnik> do you think keys awdx could be an alternate dpad?
Dec 08 17:47:13 <shackan> truent_: maybe garage?
Dec 08 17:47:40 <truent_> yeah im registering just didnt know if thats the easiest place
Dec 08 17:48:03 <L0cutus> ok, tested, it (synergy) does work ok
Dec 08 17:48:10 <halley> pupnik, I don't think it'd be an improvement, honestly.
Dec 08 17:48:27 <halley> Both ideas have the same problem: too easy to push the center instead of the direction you want.
Dec 08 17:48:39 <pupnik> oh the center can be ignored
Dec 08 17:49:02 <pupnik> god, i want my N810
Dec 08 17:49:05 <halley> The keys need substantial force, and the best way to apply the force is with a fingernail, not a fingertip.
Dec 08 17:49:11 <pupnik> ah ok
Dec 08 17:49:21 <halley> The problem with the dpad is the thing is too glossy to use a fingernail confidently.
Dec 08 17:49:40 <halley> It's all USABLE but not for games, imho.
Dec 08 17:49:41 <pupnik> i don't have fingernails, somebody keeps chewing them off
Dec 08 17:49:43 <pupnik> ok
Dec 08 17:49:49 <L0cutus> truent_, is your project for os2008 ?
Dec 08 17:50:11 <truent_> 2007.. havent tested on 2008, but i dont see why it wouldnt work
Dec 08 17:50:17 <halley> Anyway, gotta run.
Dec 08 17:50:36 <truent_> its mostly a wrapper written in ruby
Dec 08 17:53:40 <L0cutus> truent_, does it use 'pand' ?
Dec 08 17:55:39 <truent_> yeah.. why, is that in 2008?
Dec 08 17:57:29 <L0cutus> pand doeasn't exist on os2008
Dec 08 17:57:34 <L0cutus> doesn't*
Dec 08 17:59:07 <L0cutus> truent_, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=103846&postcount=1
Dec 08 18:01:20 <truent_> lol i guess i'll rewrite an os2008 version
Dec 08 18:01:27 <truent_> the one i got works great
Dec 08 18:01:28 <truent_> ;p
Dec 08 18:02:54 <truent_> does os2008 use session bus ?
Dec 08 18:03:41 <L0cutus> ok, ported also 'less'
Dec 08 18:04:17 <L0cutus> http://www.zamprogno.it/files/os2008/less_382-1_armel.deb
Dec 08 18:05:18 <ywwg> can someone help me install libgtkmozembed on chinoook scratchbox?
Dec 08 18:10:35 <truent_> L0cutus, thanks for the info, i'll have to revamp to be os2008 compatible
Dec 08 18:14:21 <K`zan> http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/generic/991e/ - gotta get me one of those :-)!
Dec 08 18:14:35 <ywwg> I can apt-get the source for libgtkmozembed but it can't find the package itself
Dec 08 18:14:48 <ywwg> and if I try to build the source... there is no source included!
Dec 08 18:15:14 <ywwg> and of course no readme on how to build it
Dec 08 18:16:11 <ywwg> there's some sort of moz cvs fetcher script, but there's clearly some sort of undocumented process to build it
Dec 08 18:17:45 <L0cutus> thanks to you truent_ :) keep me informed, i'm interested to pan on my n800+htc tytn
Dec 08 18:36:21 <L0cutus> mmm i need more info on deb packages...
Dec 08 18:38:05 <L0cutus> i don't know how to set a dependency, nor how to build a deb library
Dec 08 18:56:10 <LoCusF> fortunately its not that hard
Dec 08 18:58:44 <L0cutus> L0cutus, can you point me to some 'simple' howto ?
Dec 08 18:59:36 <L0cutus> LoCusF, can you point me to some 'simple' howto ?
Dec 08 19:14:28 <L0cutus> does midnight commander exists for os2008 ?
Dec 08 19:22:01 <derf> halley: Your first mail finally arrived.
Dec 08 19:57:13 <Tu13es> what does OS2008 offer over 2007?
Dec 08 19:57:34 <toresbe> 1
Dec 08 19:57:37 <Vulcanis> it ups the CPU speed to 400mhz, for one thing
Dec 08 19:57:37 <toresbe> :)
Dec 08 19:57:49 <Vulcanis> which means youtube videos are now bearable.
Dec 08 19:57:56 <toresbe> are they? Neato.
Dec 08 19:57:59 <Tu13es> does that kill battery life?
Dec 08 19:58:13 <Vulcanis> not as far as I can tell
Dec 08 19:58:28 <toresbe> nope
Dec 08 19:58:32 <Vulcanis> The only downside, is it only has about a fourth of the apps ported to it.
Dec 08 19:59:07 <Tu13es> interesting
Dec 08 19:59:14 <Tu13es> I bought an iTouch so I haven't used my n800 in a few months
Dec 08 19:59:36 <bodhammer> Hi - still looking for some help getting clisp running.  I have done the following: http://nopaste.codersnet.org/pastes.php?view=124   Any suggestions on where to go from here?
Dec 08 19:59:41 <Vulcanis> Itouch has the same processor speed as the n800 now
Dec 08 19:59:50 <Tu13es> yep
Dec 08 19:59:59 <toresbe> and the n800 doesn't suck :)
Dec 08 20:00:01 <Vulcanis> and (I believe) the same amount of RAM
Dec 08 20:00:11 <Tu13es> I never said the n800 sucked
Dec 08 20:00:14 <Vulcanis> I know
Dec 08 20:00:18 <Tu13es> the iTouch just did more of what I need
Dec 08 20:00:26 * Vulcanis can't wait until Quetoo is ported to OS2008
Dec 08 20:00:33 <Vulcanis> Quake 2 on the faster processor will be fun.
Dec 08 20:00:48 <Vulcanis> as far as I can tell, it already works, but I cannot run it because of a random error
Dec 08 20:01:09 <Vulcanis> and the launcher app just hangs and then dies.
Dec 08 20:01:52 <Vulcanis> wow
Dec 08 20:01:54 <Vulcanis> and now that I said that
Dec 08 20:01:56 <Vulcanis> it works.
Dec 08 20:03:37 <GeneralAntilles> Tu13es, no battery life impact.
Dec 08 20:03:47 <GeneralAntilles> Battery life should actually be better if you useless lightly.
Dec 08 20:03:50 <Tu13es> GeneralAntilles: cool.
Dec 08 20:03:52 <GeneralAntilles> As it's CPU scaling now.
Dec 08 20:04:02 <Vulcanis> Oh, guys, question
Dec 08 20:04:11 <Vulcanis> the "x days idle", does that count wifi, or no?
Dec 08 20:04:18 <GeneralAntilles> It does.
Dec 08 20:04:22 <Vulcanis> Like, turn off & lock, butn ot offline
Dec 08 20:04:31 <Vulcanis> So if I just turn off and lock it, it'll last the 8days or whatever?
Dec 08 20:04:36 <Vulcanis> turn off screen*
Dec 08 20:05:09 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, or so.
Dec 08 20:05:17 <GeneralAntilles> You should really be plugging it in, though.
Dec 08 20:05:22 <GeneralAntilles> Running down the battery is bad for it.
Dec 08 20:05:33 <Vulcanis> this is while I'm out and not near my charger.
Dec 08 20:05:48 <K`zan> GeneralAntilles: Got my USB power injector done last night, just need to pot it and then I can check out various USB drvices!
Dec 08 20:06:00 <GeneralAntilles> Cool stuff.
Dec 08 20:06:11 <GeneralAntilles> I'm way too lazy to bother with that.
Dec 08 20:06:18 <GeneralAntilles> I just need to find an OTG cable and be done.
Dec 08 20:06:40 <K`zan> Will put up a schematic and pix later today.  Real ugly bug setup, but it appears to work (less actually testing it with a device).
Dec 08 20:06:50 <Vulcanis> whats a BT kb you guys reccomend?
Dec 08 20:06:56 <Vulcanis> One thats small/pocketsized when folded
Dec 08 20:06:58 <GeneralAntilles> iGo
Dec 08 20:07:16 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.amazon.com/Stowaway-Ultra-Slim-Bluetooth-Blackberry-Handhelds/dp/B0002OKCXE/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=wireless&qid=1197144428&sr=8-1
Dec 08 20:07:28 <Vulcanis> Thanks.  That looks good.
Dec 08 20:07:41 <Vulcanis> Wow
Dec 08 20:07:42 <hugolp> whats the default user password?
Dec 08 20:07:44 <Vulcanis> 120$ savings?
Dec 08 20:07:45 <K`zan> got one coming here :-)
Dec 08 20:07:49 <GeneralAntilles> rootme
Dec 08 20:07:54 <hugolp> thanks
Dec 08 20:08:02 <GeneralAntilles> But you either have to have R&D enabled or becomeroot installed.
Dec 08 20:08:12 <Vulcanis> <3 gainroot
Dec 08 20:08:12 <K`zan> Everything shipped from all over the country is already here, the stuff from Amazon (in town) is still not here :-/.
Dec 08 20:08:33 <Vulcanis> So, guys, what apps should I have for OS2008?
Dec 08 20:08:37 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  I have installed becomeroot
Dec 08 20:08:45 <GeneralAntilles> Then you're set, hugolp!
Dec 08 20:08:45 <Vulcanis> ((I don't even really know the crucial OS2007 apps, I got the tablet three days ago
Dec 08 20:08:47 <hugolp> and changed the password for the root user
Dec 08 20:08:50 <GeneralAntilles> Just remember to change the password.
Dec 08 20:08:54 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Dec 08 20:08:55 <GeneralAntilles> Right-o
Dec 08 20:09:05 <GeneralAntilles> FBReader, maemo mapper, and mplayer for starters.
Dec 08 20:09:14 <Vulcanis> Mapper really that useful?
Dec 08 20:09:15 <GeneralAntilles> ScummVM is fairly awesome if you have some Scumm stuff about
Dec 08 20:09:26 <Vulcanis> I don't, but I may pirate that.
Dec 08 20:09:26 <GeneralAntilles> maemo mapper is fan-fucking-tastic. ;)
Dec 08 20:09:35 <Vulcanis> Even without the GPS thinger?
Dec 08 20:10:07 <GeneralAntilles> It's sorta like having Google Earth on the tablet
Dec 08 20:10:08 <GeneralAntilles> so, yes.
Dec 08 20:10:21 <GeneralAntilles> But pick yourself up a bluetooth GPS at your earliest convenience.
Dec 08 20:10:25 <GeneralAntilles> i-blue is what I recommend.
Dec 08 20:10:31 <Vulcanis> I don't really want the GPS for it
Dec 08 20:10:32 <GeneralAntilles> Xchat is another good one.
Dec 08 20:10:42 <Vulcanis> xchat is on it... Heh, it was the first thing I got.
Dec 08 20:10:44 <hugolp> if I do sudo su I get this Sorry, user is not allowed to execute /bin/su as root on Nokia-N800-44-4.
Dec 08 20:10:47 <Tu13es> I'm debating not selling my n800 and keeping it for a GPS for my car
Dec 08 20:10:54 <Vulcanis> hugolp: do sudo gainroot
Dec 08 20:11:06 <hugolp> Vulcanis:  its the only way?
Dec 08 20:11:09 <GeneralAntilles> Tu13es, N810?
Dec 08 20:11:17 <Vulcanis> pretty much, hugolp.
Dec 08 20:11:29 <hugolp> Vulcanis:  in OS2007 sudo su worked
Dec 08 20:11:40 <GeneralAntilles> You have to add yourself to sudoers if you want to use the method you mentioned.
Dec 08 20:11:53 <Tu13es> ?
Dec 08 20:11:55 <mgedmin> sudo su is a strange way to spell sudo -s, isn't it?
Dec 08 20:11:58 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  whats the comand for that?
Dec 08 20:12:00 <GeneralAntilles> mmpc if you have an mpd server, Vulcanis.
Dec 08 20:12:03 <GeneralAntilles> google it
Dec 08 20:12:11 <GeneralAntilles> 'sudoers maemo' or 'sudoers n800'
Dec 08 20:12:23 <Vulcanis> mpd?
Dec 08 20:12:24 <GeneralAntilles> Tu13es, why sell the N800?
Dec 08 20:12:29 <GeneralAntilles> music player daemon, Vulcanis.
Dec 08 20:12:32 <Vulcanis> Ah.
Dec 08 20:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> gpe-sudoku is fun.
Dec 08 20:12:38 <Vulcanis> Do you know if Canola has been ported to '80 yet?
Dec 08 20:12:41 <Vulcanis> 08*
Dec 08 20:12:44 <Tu13es> GeneralAntilles: I have an iPod Touch that I use now
Dec 08 20:12:58 <Species8472> N800 > iPod Touch
Dec 08 20:12:59 <GeneralAntilles> Mauku if you have a Jaiku account.
Dec 08 20:13:09 <Tu13es> eh, not what I need it for
Dec 08 20:13:26 <Tu13es> but I'm not here to argue
Dec 08 20:13:28 <GeneralAntilles> It works really well as a couch browser, Tu13es.
Dec 08 20:13:32 <GeneralAntilles> Best ebook reader available.
Dec 08 20:13:50 <Vulcanis> [15:12:57] <Species8472> N800 > iPod Touch -- Same processor, same ram... SAme storage with 2 8gb cards... Youtube is a tad crappier, though.  Web browser is better.
Dec 08 20:14:00 <Vulcanis> that is supporting Species8472
Dec 08 20:14:09 <Tu13es> GeneralAntilles: I know what it can do
Dec 08 20:14:13 <GeneralAntilles> Species8472 is a troll.
Dec 08 20:14:22 <Tu13es> tbh I like the browser on the touch better, but that's just me
Dec 08 20:14:38 <Vulcanis> doesn't have flash support.
Dec 08 20:14:46 <bodhammer> Is Java running yet on OS2008?
Dec 08 20:15:02 <GeneralAntilles> Console only, bodhammer.
Dec 08 20:15:16 <Vulcanis> GeneralAntilles: Do you know if Canola has been brought to OS2008 yeT?
Dec 08 20:15:25 <GeneralAntilles> Beta on the 12th
Dec 08 20:15:30 <Tu13es> anyone have mClock installed?
Dec 08 20:15:42 <Vulcanis> Hm.  GeneralAntilles: Then can anything else work with Tversity?
Dec 08 20:15:58 <GeneralAntilles> Media player should handle it fine.
Dec 08 20:16:00 <GeneralAntilles> UPnP?
Dec 08 20:16:25 <GeneralAntilles> http://openbossa.indt.org.br/canola/index2.html
Dec 08 20:18:09 <bodhammer> See post above,  I need some help getting my project going - should I just start one at garage.maemo.org for clisp/SBCL?
Dec 08 20:19:50 <hugolp> btw becomeroot is a posible thread, anyone can get to my N800 install becomeroot and do what he wants
Dec 08 20:20:42 <GeneralAntilles> If somebody has local access to your machine, there's nothing you can do about it.
Dec 08 20:22:54 <hugolp> I see, canola looks good but its not open source yet, is it?
Dec 08 20:24:32 <Vulcanis> Canola is nice.
Dec 08 20:25:18 <dragorn> if someone has access to your machine they can just reflash a kernel on it, too.  Set a device pw if you're really paranoid.
Dec 08 20:25:38 <|R> ok, seems like the code cannot be changed from EU to US... I'm screwed.
Dec 08 20:26:19 <Vulcanis> which code?
Dec 08 20:26:36 <|R> sorry, i meant developer discount program code..
Dec 08 20:27:46 <|R> i chose France as i didn't know back then that i could have a contact in the US
Dec 08 20:28:10 <|R> but i don't want an azerty keyboard and only channels 10-13 where in Canada it's 10-11... that would leave me with 10-11
Dec 08 20:28:23 <|R> Unless the devices are not blocked and it's just the APs ?
Dec 08 20:29:33 <Vulcanis> can't help you with that, sorry.
Dec 08 20:30:15 <|R> hehe no problems, I would need to find family in the UK pretty fast :P
Dec 08 20:31:12 <GeneralAntilles> hugolp, yeah, I'm not sure why they feel the need to close it.
Dec 08 20:31:19 <GeneralAntilles> It's Python, even, so they have to WORK to keep it closed.
Dec 08 20:34:55 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  and they recomend as well a closed upnp server
Dec 08 20:35:07 <hugolp> guess they dont use open source and thats all
Dec 08 20:35:17 <GeneralAntilles> There really aren't many good open ones available.
Dec 08 20:35:18 <p|> re
Dec 08 20:37:33 <Vulcanis> So, lock & turn off screen counts as 'idle' as the battery, right?
Dec 08 20:38:49 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Dec 08 20:38:57 <GeneralAntilles> There's a soft power-off mode that's available, too.
Dec 08 20:39:34 <GeneralAntilles> Basically lock, but it's single-button activation and you can have it toggle offline mode, too.
Dec 08 20:39:49 <GeneralAntilles> Unfortunately completely broken with the current OS2008 release
Dec 08 20:39:55 <GeneralAntilles> we may or may not see it fixed with the final.
Dec 08 20:40:27 <Tu13es> I need to reinstall the OS to fix a repo problem - should I install 2008?
Dec 08 20:41:56 <Vulcanis> Yeah, I saw softpoweroff was broken
Dec 08 20:42:05 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Dec 08 20:42:09 <Vulcanis> What does soft poweroff do, if you keep it from doing offline mode?
Dec 08 20:42:35 <GeneralAntilles> Same as locking, essentially.
Dec 08 20:42:38 <GeneralAntilles> Just much more convenient.
Dec 08 20:42:41 <derf> Keep you from having to hit two buttons.
Dec 08 20:43:14 <Vulcanis> Pfft.
Dec 08 20:43:24 <Vulcanis> So, I know I asked this before, but I was kinda unsure on the answers.
Dec 08 20:43:33 <Vulcanis> If I turn off and lock, but do not go into offline mode
Dec 08 20:43:41 <Vulcanis> Is that what is 'idle', or does that still count as in use.
Dec 08 20:43:48 <Vulcanis> for what is on the battery meter
Dec 08 20:44:03 <GeneralAntilles> It's idle, unless there's some rampant process eating all your cycles.
Dec 08 20:44:15 <GeneralAntilles> Just setting it down on your desk and leaving it for 4 days is idle.
Dec 08 20:44:18 <guerby> hi, I'm unable to find privoxy for OS2008, any idea?
Dec 08 20:44:49 <GeneralAntilles> It's in extras, I think.
Dec 08 20:45:21 <Vulcanis> GeneralAntilles: Yeah, but again, with the "Time left:" thing, is this the idle it is talking about, or is it only if it is offline mode.
Dec 08 20:45:47 <GeneralAntilles> The powersaving on the wifi is very good
Dec 08 20:45:48 <guerby> GeneralAntilles, I have extra: deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ chinook free non-free
Dec 08 20:45:59 <guerby> but app manager does not find it
Dec 08 20:46:07 <GeneralAntilles> Leaving it connected is just about equivalent to turning it off.
Dec 08 20:46:11 <Vulcanis> Mmm.
Dec 08 20:46:12 <Vulcanis> Ok
Dec 08 20:46:16 <GeneralAntilles> gronmayer.com/it guerby.
Dec 08 20:46:18 <Vulcanis> One more question...
Dec 08 20:46:18 <GeneralAntilles> Search for it.
Dec 08 20:46:36 <Vulcanis> How much more power does the 'autofind after 5 minutes' take up, instead of having autofind networks off
Dec 08 20:46:52 <GeneralAntilles> Well, if it's connected to a network
Dec 08 20:46:53 <GeneralAntilles> none
Dec 08 20:46:56 <guerby> GeneralAntilles, thanks! I did not know this site
Dec 08 20:47:11 <Vulcanis> Mmm, thanks.
Dec 08 20:47:11 <GeneralAntilles> if you're walking (or driving) around and it's searching for networks, more than none.
Dec 08 20:47:43 <Vulcanis> Right, but would it cause a huge drop in batterylife, or not? (This would be screen locked, still, but I'd like to be connected when I pull it out, if it is possible.
Dec 08 20:48:28 <GeneralAntilles> Depends on your use case
Dec 08 20:48:41 <GeneralAntilles> If you're driving around doing errands, it's going to have an effect on battery life
Dec 08 20:48:56 <GeneralAntilles> since it'll be searching (unsuccessfully) for known, usable networks every 5 minutes.
Dec 08 20:49:17 <Vulcanis> Mmm, alright.
Dec 08 20:49:33 <GeneralAntilles> If you go from home to work and back (and, perhaps, to a friend's) and all places have known, usable wifi, then no, it's not really going to impact battery life.
Dec 08 20:53:08 <Vulcanis> thanks again.
Dec 08 20:53:28 <derf> Well, I mean, once it finds a network it has to work to keep you connected to it.
Dec 08 20:54:07 <GeneralAntilles> N800's power saving is incredibly good.
Dec 08 20:54:51 <GeneralAntilles> There difference in power usage when sitting on a connection idling is pretty trivial as far as daily-use is concerned.
Dec 08 20:55:59 <derf> I guess I just spend too much time worrying about devices that can have at most milliwatt power consumptions.
Dec 08 20:56:18 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds like it. ;)
Dec 08 20:56:37 <Vulcanis> So, other than canola, what players support TVersity?
Dec 08 20:56:38 <K`zan> derf: I used to, but found my crank charger will charge it anywhere :).
Dec 08 20:56:54 <GeneralAntilles> Is TVersity UPnP, Vulcanis?
Dec 08 20:57:03 <Vulcanis> I'll check, I don't think so.
Dec 08 20:57:26 <Vulcanis> yes, it appears to be.
Dec 08 20:57:29 <dev> GeneralAntilles: it is
Dec 08 20:58:03 <GeneralAntilles> Then Media player will handle it just fine.
Dec 08 20:58:12 <Vulcanis> Where in media player do I find the option to do it?
Dec 08 20:58:26 <Vulcanis> haha.
Dec 08 20:58:30 <GeneralAntilles> It'll be right at the top level of the library.
Dec 08 20:58:31 <Vulcanis> Apparently it took restarting to find it
Dec 08 20:58:32 <Vulcanis> yeah
Dec 08 21:05:40 <K`zan> Is there something that needs loading to get USB devices detected?
Dec 08 21:05:55 <K`zan> ls /proc
Dec 08 21:06:10 <GeneralAntilles> If you don't have the right pin grounded, then you need to force host mode somehow.
Dec 08 21:07:10 <K`zan> GeneralAntilles: Power should be right, took the pins off a reguar USB cable which checked against what reference I found.
Dec 08 21:07:31 <K`zan> Just plugged in a USB->serial converter and see nothing in dmesg...
Dec 08 21:07:37 <GeneralAntilles> There's some specific grounding for switching from slave to host
Dec 08 21:07:42 <GeneralAntilles> Evidently that's not grounded correctly
Dec 08 21:07:45 <GeneralAntilles> so you gotta force it.
Dec 08 21:07:52 <GeneralAntilles> There's probably something on the ITT wiki or the forums.
Dec 08 21:08:14 <K`zan> Before I pot it I'd like to figure out what "grounded correctly" means :-).
Dec 08 21:08:29 <GeneralAntilles> OTG cables are different from regular cables.
Dec 08 21:08:33 <jabaro> why is it that if I try gcc -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 example_camera.c (c example from "How to Use Camera API") it fails? what else?
Dec 08 21:08:48 <K`zan> Will try the USB ethernet thingie and see if that does anything...
Dec 08 21:08:48 <GeneralAntilles> I don't have any first-hand experience, so I don't really know.
Dec 08 21:08:53 <K`zan> OTG, making notes :)
Dec 08 21:08:59 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just giving you the summary of what I've read.
Dec 08 21:09:05 <GeneralAntilles> Which is a lot. :P
Dec 08 21:09:08 <K`zan> "OTG" ?!?
Dec 08 21:09:13 <GeneralAntilles> On The Go
Dec 08 21:09:20 <dragorn> 800 or 810?
Dec 08 21:09:24 <K`zan> :-) ahead of me in that department :).
Dec 08 21:09:28 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, this guy will know. :P
Dec 08 21:09:38 <K`zan> n800 w/2008 for n800
Dec 08 21:09:44 <dragorn> The 800 uses a Mini-B which has to be custom-made to be grounded to mini-a in a mini-b shell, or you have to use /sys to kick it into host mode
Dec 08 21:09:59 <dragorn> 810 uses a micro-ab which can take micro-a for host mode, and /sys didn't work (for me)
Dec 08 21:10:41 <dragorn> also as someone else pointed out (and I didn't believe until getting a multimeter), it only puts out 3.3 instead of 5v on USB in host mode so you might need to build a power injection cable, depending on the power draw of your device
Dec 08 21:11:16 <K`zan> Got the power injector, no 5V to the n800, just signals and ground.
Dec 08 21:11:36 <K`zan> 5V injected into whatever device is plugged in.
Dec 08 21:11:37 <dragorn> you have to toggle it into host mode via /sys, I forget the file, find /sys -name mode
Dec 08 21:11:49 <dragorn> it'll be in devices/something_usb/mode (or usb_something mode)
Dec 08 21:11:56 <dragorn> echo 'host' to that file
Dec 08 21:12:20 <dragorn> as far as the grounded pin,it has to be inside the mini-b end, it's the fifth pin there.
Dec 08 21:12:41 <dragorn> (and mini-a is a different physical connector, so you can't get a "proper" cable)
Dec 08 21:13:36 <K`zan> dragorn: Thanks, making notes.  I presume you mean /proc/devices...
Dec 08 21:13:51 <dragorn> no, I think it's in /sys
Dec 08 21:13:54 <K`zan> ls /proc/devices
Dec 08 21:13:56 <dragorn> it's on ITT somewhere
Dec 08 21:14:40 <K`zan> WIll go search, never have gotten my registration email from them :-(.
Dec 08 21:15:00 <K`zan> Not lighting up the ethernet dongle :-(.
Dec 08 21:15:09 <dragorn> it won't until you put it in host mode
Dec 08 21:15:12 <K`zan> Ah
Dec 08 21:15:14 <dragorn> client to client has no power
Dec 08 21:15:25 <dragorn> it's /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 08 21:16:06 <K`zan> Gonna have to tear up once of those connectors and get it right :).
Dec 08 21:16:06 <dragorn> it'll also complain to you about the device being unsupported.  it also might not light up on enumeration, and require a host drive
Dec 08 21:16:20 <dragorn> good luck, they're tiny and sealed
Dec 08 21:16:31 * K`zan wonders if she is wasting her time with this....
Dec 08 21:16:42 <dragorn> I'd just do it w/ sys
Dec 08 21:17:24 <K`zan> Nokia-N800-44-4:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 08 21:17:24 <K`zan> b_idle
Dec 08 21:17:56 <dragorn> yes.  so echo host to it
Dec 08 21:18:10 <K`zan> OK, trying that now :-).  THanks!
Dec 08 21:18:48 <K`zan> echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 08 21:18:48 <K`zan> Nokia-N800-44-4:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 08 21:18:48 <K`zan> a_wait_bcon
Dec 08 21:18:57 <K`zan> Hummm...
Dec 08 21:19:12 <dragorn> try disconnecting/reconnecting the device
Dec 08 21:19:20 <dragorn> the usb stuff isn't exactly stable
Dec 08 21:19:40 <K`zan> disconnect / echo / replug?
Dec 08 21:20:25 <K`zan> Not changing...
Dec 08 21:20:48 <dragorn> might need too much power to enumerate
Dec 08 21:21:27 <K`zan> Got 800mA on the power jack...
Dec 08 21:21:36 <K`zan> Available
Dec 08 21:21:41 <K`zan> Not pulling :)
Dec 08 21:22:02 <dragorn> I don't think so, i think the chipset only provides around 200mA
Dec 08 21:22:28 <K`zan> External wall wart supplying ONLY the plugged in device...
Dec 08 21:23:06 <K`zan> Well, it changed with that one, went back to a_suspend when I echoed host to it.
Dec 08 21:23:11 <K`zan> Well, it changed with that one, went to a_suspend when I echoed host to it.
Dec 08 21:23:24 <l7_> n
Dec 08 21:23:24 <dragorn> If you're talking about the n800, then no, that doesn't imply it has more than 200mW on the usb port
Dec 08 21:23:32 <dragorn> unless you mean you're powering the usb ethernet card
Dec 08 21:23:48 <K`zan> I'm powering it, 5V line from the n800 is not connected.
Dec 08 21:24:01 <K`zan> Just signals and ground to the n800.
Dec 08 21:24:06 <dragorn> ah
Dec 08 21:24:40 <K`zan> I think I am going to give this up, doesn't look promising with the devices I have(?!)
Dec 08 21:25:08 <K`zan> doing the echo doesn't seem to take.
Dec 08 21:28:55 <dragorn> awesome, udev rules work for usb on os2008
Dec 08 21:30:33 <K`zan> Schematic for the injector:  http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/tmp/USB-PI-2.pdf
Dec 08 21:30:46 <dragorn> try something else
Dec 08 21:30:53 <dragorn> like a keychain flash drive
Dec 08 21:31:16 <dragorn> that should show up in the file manager if you have usb host working properly
Dec 08 21:32:46 * K`zan scrounges up SD reader and card...
Dec 08 21:33:35 <K`zan> That lights up
Dec 08 21:33:41 <K`zan> dmesg
Dec 08 21:35:05 <K`zan> Quite a list in dmesg on it,  lemme see if I can mount /dev/sda
Dec 08 21:35:46 <K`zan> Nokia-N800-44-4:~# mount /dev/sda1 /x
Dec 08 21:35:46 <K`zan> Nokia-N800-44-4:~# ls /x
Dec 08 21:35:46 <K`zan> TimeLine.txt        gsf-1.odt           vw001.sxw
Dec 08 21:35:46 <K`zan> Transfusion-w1.odt  howiwri1.pdf
Dec 08 21:35:50 <K`zan> Cool!
Dec 08 21:36:17 <K`zan> Appears to work for the SD reader!
Dec 08 21:36:38 <ywwg> it woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorks!
Dec 08 21:36:44 <K`zan> :-)
Dec 08 21:37:04 <K`zan> ls -l /dev/sda
Dec 08 21:38:07 <K`zan> Nokia-N800-44-4:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 08 21:38:07 <K`zan> a_host
Dec 08 21:38:30 <K`zan> Seems picky about what it will accept though :-).
Dec 08 21:38:40 <djtansey> I have a question about maemo, specifically about its browser. Does it have any advanced offline-mode system so that websites can be used interactively between wifi connections and synced up later?
Dec 08 21:38:41 <K`zan> umount /media/usb/sda1
Dec 08 21:39:58 <K`zan> Finds the serial dongle, but list mode as a_suspend...
Dec 08 21:40:49 <K`zan> [97781.500000] usb 1-1: device v067b p2303 is not supported
Dec 08 21:42:18 <K`zan> But not the SMC ethernet dongle.
Dec 08 21:42:25 <GeneralAntilles> Not currently, djtansey.
Dec 08 21:42:40 <GeneralAntilles> Most websites today that's impossible to do, though.
Dec 08 21:42:42 <K`zan> OK, that was fun :-), now for brekky.
Dec 08 21:43:13 <djtansey> GeneralAntilles: thank you. good to know. do you happen to know of any emerging standards that would allow that?
Dec 08 21:43:26 <GeneralAntilles> Ha, no.
Dec 08 21:43:33 <GeneralAntilles> With AJAX and that nonsense?
Dec 08 21:43:34 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Dec 08 21:43:51 <GeneralAntilles> Better off just getting yourself a cellular data connection if you're going to be off wifi a lot. :)
Dec 08 21:44:36 <djtansey> I am planning to do that. Though I don't yet have a device. That happens when I get back from Nigeria.
Dec 08 21:45:45 <djtansey> I ask because I am interested in finding uses of the n800/n810 in the international development context, meaning to function as point of sale systems for micro-finance loans. I was hoping to have it all be web-based. But I guess it will have to be a local app that syncs independently
Dec 08 21:46:21 <GeneralAntilles> That would be a lot more feasible.
Dec 08 21:47:00 <Species8472> My house is in fire, what should I do?
Dec 08 21:48:00 <derf> Liveblog it.
Dec 08 21:48:38 <Species8472> I'm allergic for blogs
Dec 08 21:49:15 <Anastasia> Random reboot, I do so love fedora...
Dec 08 21:49:24 <djtansey> GeneralAntilles, I suspect so. Thanks for your help. Any suggestions for someone looking for a crash course on Maemo development. I did GTK development for a few years from around 1999-2001, so I have some (obsolete) familiarity.
Dec 08 21:49:33 <derf> I would think your allergies to extreme heat and air without oxygen would be more pressing problems.
Dec 08 21:49:36 <GeneralAntilles> maemo.org
Dec 08 21:50:17 <Species8472> Hi GeneralAntilles, nice website.
Dec 08 21:50:22 <halley> Hm, the only port of kanjipad I can find is perhaps built into im-ja.
Dec 08 21:50:31 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody kick the troll.
Dec 08 21:50:51 <Species8472> I'm merely complementing you on your website :(
Dec 08 21:50:56 <Anastasia> usb adapter cable I was using with the ethernet dongle was apparently bad, shows up as "Unable to connect, Device not supported" with the new cable.  Progress!
Dec 08 21:50:59 <djtansey> GeneralAntilles, thanks.. was hoping there was something published that I didn't know about. I guess that's where I'll go. Thanks again.
Dec 08 21:51:08 <dragorn> Anastasia: it'll say that about nearly everything
Dec 08 21:51:48 <Anastasia> dragorn: But the power injector works :).  I guess I'd need to compile a kernel with the desired modules to get this working.
Dec 08 21:51:59 <dragorn> it'll complain about being unsupported anyhow, afaik
Dec 08 21:52:12 <dragorn> that's part of the otg whitelist, I'm looking into it for my own stuff
Dec 08 21:52:16 <dragorn> I don't know how easy it is to control
Dec 08 21:52:21 <halley> Is it a true usb, or just an "enough usb for the block host" feature?
Dec 08 21:52:38 <dragorn> it's USB-OTG, which is a new standard
Dec 08 21:52:52 <halley> OTG?  One True G*d?
Dec 08 21:52:58 <Anastasia> halley: I have NO idea, OLD usb stuff from the 266 MHz Gateway laptop :).
Dec 08 21:52:58 <dragorn> on the go
Dec 08 21:53:07 <halley> Over The Gizmo?
Dec 08 21:53:22 <Anastasia> Both are supported on the desktop machine though, FWIW.
Dec 08 21:53:25 <halley> Why did usb need "on the go"?  Dual-directionality?
Dec 08 21:53:36 <halley> Host and peripheral, that is?
Dec 08 21:53:41 <dragorn> it's a usb dev-to-dev spec, not very common yet.  It's one device to one device, no hubs, limited power, and limited "officially" supported devices
Dec 08 21:53:50 <Anastasia> FOOD!  bbl
Dec 08 21:53:59 <dragorn> hence the whitelist, but that should be controllable somewhere
Dec 08 21:54:46 <Species8472> Does anyone know what binge are?
Dec 08 21:56:16 <GeneralAntilles> Really, they shoulda used Firewire instead. ;)
Dec 08 21:56:32 <Fatal> I'd use smoke signals
Dec 08 21:58:38 <Species8472> GeneralAntilles, now that is a troll.
Dec 08 22:13:13 <disq> there were plans to make a software to make n800 act as a bluetooth keyboard, any progress in that?
Dec 08 22:15:14 <p|> is dropbear better than openssh ?
Dec 08 22:17:45 <dragorn> p|: no, but it's smaller
Dec 08 22:21:30 <cy3o3> woah
Dec 08 22:21:31 <cy3o3> sup dragorn
Dec 08 22:23:24 <dragorn> not much
Dec 08 22:32:11 <Rask330> Do any of you guys know where maemo hides the certificates in the filesystem?
Dec 08 22:32:33 <Rask330> I have an odd problem where a certificate I'd like to use for WPA isn't working 'cos the N800 thinks it's an authority...
Dec 08 22:32:44 <Rask330> It's in there, but it's in the wrong tab.
Dec 08 22:33:11 <Species8472> Rask330: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_certificate_storage_bora.html
Dec 08 22:33:44 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody use Skype chat?
Dec 08 22:34:01 <Species8472> I use mind melts
Dec 08 22:34:15 <Species8472> And telepathie
Dec 08 22:35:12 <GeneralAntilles> Can anybody tell me whether this mess of a bug is actually accurate? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2512
Dec 08 22:36:23 <Species8472> Let me go and check on my N800 GeneralAntilles
Dec 08 22:37:12 <Rask330> Species8472:  I don't seem to have a /root/certificates directory... o.o
Dec 08 22:37:14 <halley> "mind melds" if you meant communication; "mind melts" if you meant acid trips or cannibal sandwiches
Dec 08 22:38:04 <Species8472> I take the mind melts.
Dec 08 22:38:05 <halley> Rask330, nothing of any system value is kept in /root typically.  It's a home directory for the root user.
Dec 08 22:38:26 <Rask330> halley:  I know, but that page seems to be indicating that's where they keep the certificates.  o.o
Dec 08 22:38:34 <Species8472> GeneralAntilles, I can't find my N800.
Dec 08 22:38:40 <GeneralAntilles> I stole it.
Dec 08 22:38:44 <halley> That's where *someone* might decide to do it, not a normal functioning system.
Dec 08 22:38:44 <Species8472> why
Dec 08 22:39:33 <Rask330> My problem is, I imported a certificate authority and a certificate into certificate manager, but it thought they were both authorities, so I can't use the certificate to get on the wireless at work-- nor can I, apparently, remove the certificate and try to re-import it o_O
Dec 08 22:42:04 <Rask330> Shouldn't it at least provide a removal option..?
Dec 08 22:47:38 <Rask330> Anyone have any suggestions? ^^;
Dec 08 22:51:15 <Species8472> Maybe GeneralAntilles has, he's the expert.
Dec 08 22:51:28 <GeneralAntilles> No, I don't do certs.
Dec 08 22:51:38 <Species8472> Well start doing them then?
Dec 08 22:53:31 <Vulcanis> Haha
Dec 08 22:53:40 <Vulcanis> So apparently, FBReader fixed all the Quetoo problems
Dec 08 22:53:54 <Vulcanis> That makes no sense, but it must be one of the things that FBReader needs to run...
Dec 08 22:54:17 <shackan> quetoo runs on os2008 ?
Dec 08 22:54:24 <Vulcanis> yes
Dec 08 22:54:29 <Vulcanis> one sec, let me find the url
Dec 08 22:54:37 <shackan> it's playable?
Dec 08 22:54:41 <Vulcanis> Very
Dec 08 22:54:44 <Vulcanis> it was playable on 07
Dec 08 22:55:00 <shackan> not without a keyboard tough, right?
Dec 08 22:55:05 <Vulcanis> much more playable on 08, with the processor upgrade
Dec 08 22:55:08 <Vulcanis> its still fairly playable
Dec 08 22:55:21 <Vulcanis> you aim by dragging the screen with stilus, shoot with the fullscreen button, move with the dpad
Dec 08 22:55:27 <Vulcanis> + and - switch weapons
Dec 08 22:55:34 <Vulcanis> http://www2.lut.fi/~thietan1/quetoo/
Dec 08 22:56:04 <shackan> hahaha, I tried doom, and it's very unconfortable
Dec 08 22:56:19 <shackan> (and apparently it drains the battery)
Dec 08 22:56:55 <hugolp> shackan:  its normal that a graphic demanding aplication drains more the battery than usual
Dec 08 22:56:56 <GeneralAntilles> Doom is fine.
Dec 08 22:57:06 <hugolp> but I agree with you, doom controls where weird
Dec 08 22:57:10 <GeneralAntilles> Quake I is probably the best of the bunch.
Dec 08 22:57:11 <Vulcanis> You want to turn off the wifi when playing doom and stuff, though.  Theres no reason to do it
Dec 08 22:57:16 <Vulcanis> I rebound the doom controls
Dec 08 22:57:22 <Vulcanis> so fullscreen button is fire
Dec 08 22:57:26 <Vulcanis> and the middle dpad button is enter
Dec 08 22:57:33 <Vulcanis> so that I don't have to worry about pressing the middle dpad button while moving
Dec 08 22:59:16 <hugolp> quetoo looks nice, Ill try it tomorrow
Dec 08 22:59:53 <cy3o3> \
Dec 08 23:06:57 <Vulcanis> anyone happen to know if aircrack works on os2008 yet?
Dec 08 23:08:02 <GeneralAntilles> Is it a console application? :)
Dec 08 23:10:15 <dragorn> you can't do injection, so you're seriously thinking it's a good idea to try to passively brute force wep?  On a handheld?
Dec 08 23:12:05 <Vulcanis> dragorn: They had aircrack-ng for os2007
Dec 08 23:12:09 <Vulcanis> Yes, general, console
Dec 08 23:12:18 <dragorn> And it was a pretty dumb idea then, too :P
Dec 08 23:26:55 * joshin bangs his head on his scratchbox.
Dec 08 23:27:27 <joshin> Trying to compile mplayer for the hacker's edition of the 770 since it is broke.  I'm getting all sorts of nifty assembler errors.
Dec 08 23:27:41 <joshin> {standard input}:490: Error: selected processor does not support `smultb r2,r1,lr'
Dec 08 23:27:41 <Vulcanis> isn't that just os2007?
Dec 08 23:28:00 <joshin> Yup.
Dec 08 23:28:18 <Vulcanis> one sec
Dec 08 23:28:23 <Vulcanis> there should already be mplayer for that...
Dec 08 23:28:32 <Vulcanis> Er, one that works*
Dec 08 23:29:05 <joshin> Must have snuck it in when I wasn't looking.
Dec 08 23:29:16 <Vulcanis> tried http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2007/mplayer/ ?
Dec 08 23:29:33 <Vulcanis> I have not used a 770, so I'm not sure if that'll work
Dec 08 23:31:24 <joshin> I'm 99.5% sure I tried both of them with limited success on the hacker's edition.  Since the 770 is such an odd beast (especially the HE version), I figured that I should try and compile it myself.
Dec 08 23:31:56 <pupnik> anybody build open source wlan usb drivers for 770/800 yet?
Dec 08 23:32:53 <joshin> Right now, I'm trying to build it in the Maemo Virtual machine using the current mplayer.garage version.  I've had more luck cheating and building it on openembedded but that seems to be missing all the nice 770/maemo optimizations.
Dec 08 23:34:16 <K`zan> Anyone know which repository that gcompris is in?  Fills up my app catalog and I have zero interest in it?
Dec 08 23:37:04 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Dec 08 23:37:05 <GeneralAntilles> Extras
Dec 08 23:37:09 <GeneralAntilles> Pain, isn't it?
Dec 08 23:37:22 <GeneralAntilles> Should open a bug.
Dec 08 23:39:16 <K`zan> Yes, that mess should have it's own repository for those that ARE interested in kids games...
Dec 08 23:39:41 <Vulcanis> or just give us a way to hide parts...
Dec 08 23:39:56 <K`zan> So deselecting that one would create a problem in other places.
Dec 08 23:40:29 <K`zan> Vulcanis: No, it is very specialized and should have it's own.  Only thing out of all my repos that I *definitely* don't want.
Dec 08 23:40:44 <Vulcanis> Yeah.
Dec 08 23:40:59 <K`zan> 356 :-) entries that are totally useless (to me).
Dec 08 23:41:46 <sp3000> probably not so useful to try to solve on the repository level
Dec 08 23:44:40 <sp3000> I wonder how crack-addled it'd look if the appmgr did trees based on dash-separated components of package names, when there are more than one with the same prefix
Dec 08 23:51:35 <sp3000> it'd probably need a blocklist of name components that don't indicate relatedness in this context, like maemo-*
Dec 08 23:56:22 <p|> good night
Dec 09 00:01:13 <derf> Great, I'm running into dependency problems in a fresh chinook install.
Dec 09 00:01:58 <halley> Like what?
Dec 09 00:02:18 <derf> Oh, no, maybe these are just permissions problems.
Dec 09 00:02:58 <derf> /scratchbox/tools/bin/chgrp: changing group of `/usr/share/certs/certman.cst': Operation not permitted
Dec 09 00:04:41 <derf> Unfortunately it doesn't tell me what it wants to change the group _to_, or I could just do it myself.
Dec 09 00:04:54 <derf> But I can't see how it could possibly work on its own.
Dec 09 00:21:22 <derf> Oh, good, it was trying to change its group to the group it already has.
Dec 09 00:23:20 <blithe> Fwah, I'm never ordering from buy.com again.
Dec 09 00:23:45 <blithe> At this rate, I wont even get the n800 before Christmas.
Dec 09 00:24:30 <GeneralAntilles> buy.com has been very good to me in the past.
Dec 09 00:25:25 <derf> Yeah, gconf-schemas --register will not run in any of these scripts, either, since it insists on being root.
Dec 09 00:26:46 <blithe> There's not even a phone number on their website you can call if you have problems.
Dec 09 00:26:59 <blithe> It's all email based, and inefficient email at that.
Dec 09 00:27:19 <derf> blithe: Welcome to the 21st Century.
Dec 09 00:40:08 <Acglaphotis> Hey, it's there a way to speed up gba emulation on the n800? FF:TA runs really slow
Dec 09 00:41:43 <halley> Acglaphotis, er, I don't think folks usually overclock their itty-bitty-non-gaming ARM hardware.
Dec 09 00:42:26 <halley> GBA has tons of hardware graphics acceleration to get things done; the fact that something works at all in emulation is impressive.
Dec 09 00:43:41 <elb> the real point is, if there was a way to do it, surely the emulator would do it
Dec 09 00:44:17 <Acglaphotis> halley: well,  then, will it go faster if i upgrade to the OS 2008? it overclocks the processor at 400mhz
Dec 09 00:44:33 <elb> it does not overclock, it clocks
Dec 09 00:45:04 <elb> and, many people report that it generally speeds things up, which is probably partly clocking and partly efficiency improvements
Dec 09 00:45:29 <halley> I didn't think the OS sets the clock rate, but I guess that's common enough on other ARM platforms.
Dec 09 00:45:50 <elb> it's common on all platforms, nowadays
Dec 09 00:46:31 <elb> OS2007 basically used a throttled speed as its "full speed"
Dec 09 00:46:41 <elb> for, to my understanding, power consumption reasons
Dec 09 00:47:42 <Acglaphotis> elb: so it would drain my battery faster?
Dec 09 00:47:48 <sp3000> http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/30984#30984 explains
Dec 09 00:48:16 <elb> Acglaphotis: no, it purportedly makes your battery last *longer*, by using more intelligent throttling
Dec 09 00:49:57 <Acglaphotis> elb: ok
Dec 09 00:51:58 <Acglaphotis> elb: what about SNES? are there any emulators for it?
Dec 09 00:52:54 <elb> I have no idea
Dec 09 00:53:12 <Acglaphotis> ok
Dec 09 00:53:35 <Acglaphotis> thanks for the help
Dec 09 00:54:04 <Acglaphotis> i think i'll be upgrading to the os 2008, bye!
Dec 09 01:12:13 <derf> halley: Well, intltool is giving me configure problems, and I have no idea how to fix it.
Dec 09 01:12:23 <halley> Erg.  :/
Dec 09 01:12:37 <halley> elb, got your OS2008 sdk installed yet?
Dec 09 01:12:45 <elb> sure do
Dec 09 01:13:04 <halley> derf is kindly looking at his gjiten install which the OS2008 doesn't like,
Dec 09 01:13:07 <derf> As in, it generates its own intltool-merge.in file, then fails to replace @INTLTOOL_LIBDIR@ in it when it generates intltool-merge, which then makes intltool-merge fall over when it gets run.
Dec 09 01:13:45 <halley> elb, the maemocjk guy got an install alpha running, works pretty nicely.
Dec 09 01:13:51 <derf> None of this is my code, and I really only have the vaguest notions how autofoo is supposed to work, because it is a steaming pile of crap that I avoid at all costs.
Dec 09 01:13:54 <elb> yeah, I hope to get Russian and cjk working
Dec 09 01:14:28 <halley> derf, understood-- just a priority for us japanophiles ;)
Dec 09 01:14:45 <elb> I am encouraged that the FBReader guy seems to be a Cyrillic user
Dec 09 01:14:45 <derf> Yeah, well, I'm open to suggestions.
Dec 09 01:14:46 <halley> I need to see how the sdk works on osx.
Dec 09 01:15:00 <derf> I've asked the only two people I know with a clue how automake works, and they've got nothing.
Dec 09 01:52:20 <joshin> Ok, who broke maemo.org: "memcache handler: Failed to connect to localhost:11211."
Dec 09 01:54:50 <halley> Just refresh, the server sucks.
Dec 09 01:55:50 * joshin thinks it is running on a 770 in USB host mode
Dec 09 01:58:26 <zerojay> Honestly, the whole Midgard thing is just a failure. I wish they had used pretty much anything else.
Dec 09 01:58:42 <Vulcanis> Midgard?
Dec 09 01:58:49 <zerojay> Yes, Midgard.
Dec 09 01:58:58 <Vulcanis> Yeah, what is that, though
Dec 09 01:59:10 <zerojay> Google it.
Dec 09 02:05:58 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, file a bug. :P
Dec 09 02:06:24 <zerojay> Heh.. no reason to do so.
Dec 09 02:07:39 <pupnik> "The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
Dec 09 02:07:40 <pupnik> - Philip Roth
Dec 09 02:08:00 <zerojay> Midgard isn't a work-in-progress.
Dec 09 02:08:04 <zerojay> It's an abortion.
Dec 09 02:10:32 <elb> CMS is a synonym for abortion
Dec 09 02:11:06 <zerojay> Pretty much.
Dec 09 02:33:45 <GeneralAntilles> 'night, gents.
Dec 09 02:55:15 <truent_> lol anyone have a project on garage.maemo.org?
Dec 09 02:55:24 <zerojay> Yes.
Dec 09 02:55:37 <zerojay> Don't know why that's funny though.
Dec 09 02:55:42 <truent_> here's why..
Dec 09 02:56:12 <truent_> i created a project today, only myself as a member so far.. admin status.. welp i changed it to senior developer.. now im no longer admin
Dec 09 02:56:16 <truent_> can i change it back?
Dec 09 02:56:18 <truent_> hah
Dec 09 02:56:27 <sp3000> heh
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 09 02:59:56 2007