**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 09 02:59:56 2007
Dec 09 03:14:47 <|R> truent_ : haha you tried what i didn't dare do :P
Dec 09 03:33:40 <Vulcanis> The resolution of the n800 is 800x480, right?
Dec 09 03:34:19 <astro76> Vulcanis, indeed
Dec 09 03:34:27 <Vulcanis> Thanks.
Dec 09 03:50:10 <roue> hola
Dec 09 03:51:12 <roue> I've got an n800 running OS2008.  I've tried two different SDHC  cards in the internal slot, and they work, but occasionally they'll stop being recognized or the device will say they've "become corrupted".  If I reseat them, all is well again. Am I just not inserting them correctly? Is this a common problem? Thanks.
Dec 09 03:58:02 <Vulcanis> [22:51:15] <roue> I've got an n800 running OS2008.  I've tried two different SDHC  cards in the internal slot, and they work, but occasionally they'll stop being recognized or the device will say they've "become corrupted".  If I reseat them, all is well again. Am I just not inserting them correctly? Is this a common problem? Thanks. -- make sure the "door" on the slot is closed all the wa
Dec 09 03:58:03 <Vulcanis> y
Dec 09 03:58:46 <roue> Vulcanis - I'm pretty sure it is. Unless you mean something by "door" other than the back cover.
Dec 09 03:59:42 <Vulcanis> I meant the other slot, but I re-read and saw both
Dec 09 04:01:27 <roue> if I open and close the back it usually comes back.
Dec 09 04:01:49 <roue> I'm seeing a thread on internettablettalk that sounds just like this problem. Maybe it's an issue with the beta OS2008.
Dec 09 04:04:20 <roue> hola thoughtfix
Dec 09 04:04:25 <thoughtfix> Evening
Dec 09 04:05:21 <roue> ever hear anything about n800's losing the internal sdhc mount under the OS2008 beta? Mine is dropping out periodically (enough to notice). opening and closing the back seems to resolve it.
Dec 09 04:05:49 <thoughtfix> Hmm
Dec 09 04:06:00 <thoughtfix> I have a Sandisk Type 6 4GB SDHC card and never had a problem
Dec 09 04:06:43 <roue> I've tried a kingston 8g and a pny 4g. both have exhibited the same issue.
Dec 09 04:07:11 <roue> I've only had the tablet for about two weeks, so if it's a hw issue I've still got some time to exchange it.
Dec 09 04:07:40 <thoughtfix> What's the symptom?
Dec 09 04:07:53 <thoughtfix> i.e. how does it manifest itself and what do you see?
Dec 09 04:08:47 <roue> when I go to the file manager it will either not show the internal card or it will show it and trying to access a file reports that it's corrupt. if I open the back it will often come back. Otherwise I have to reseat the internal card.
Dec 09 04:09:52 <thoughtfix> Stupid question but are your contacts clean?
Dec 09 04:10:07 <Vulcanis> Is there a way to make sudo apt-get install to install to an mmc?
Dec 09 04:10:22 <Vulcanis> Roue: Try checking on another reader.
Dec 09 04:10:27 <roue> It's a brand new unit. They should be clean. I haven't looked at them closely. What would you clean them with?
Dec 09 04:10:51 <Vulcanis> by clean, he means the files are not corrupt
Dec 09 04:10:58 <Vulcanis> Wait
Dec 09 04:11:02 <Vulcanis> I read contacts as contents
Dec 09 04:11:11 <astro76> Vulcanis, http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_easily_boot_from_mmc_card/
Dec 09 04:11:12 * Vulcanis is too tired
Dec 09 04:11:15 <derf> Okay, the problem appears to be that there are two copies of intltool.m4 in scratchbox, and one of them is old.
Dec 09 04:12:23 <roue> I've just looked. Both the metal contacts on the card and the pins in the N800 appear to be clean. The cards are both new. Used only in the N800 so far.
Dec 09 04:12:56 <Vulcanis> Astro: Theres no other way?
Dec 09 04:13:43 <astro76> dunno, probably some way with symlinks
Dec 09 04:15:40 <[pablo]_> is anyone else annoyed with the n810 stylus? On full size pages most links are hard to click on accurately, and it being such a blunt end, it sometimes thinks I am clicking and moving when it doesn't move at all, very annoying in google reader with the new drag and drop feature
Dec 09 04:16:13 <halley> [pablo]_, do the calibration
Dec 09 04:16:58 <halley> I hold the stylus parallel to a row of small text, not perpendicular, too.
Dec 09 04:17:15 <[pablo]_> i've tried that many times
Dec 09 04:17:30 * halley shrugs.
Dec 09 04:17:31 <[pablo]_> and I tend to do the same, it seems to work better when I hold it stright up though
Dec 09 04:17:55 <halley> I haven't found it any different from any other tap interface in the past dozen years.
Dec 09 04:18:50 <[pablo]_> well, me and my friend were playing with each others toys today and I grabbed the stylus from his treo and i didn't notice those same problems
Dec 09 04:21:15 <Vulcanis> calibrate again.
Dec 09 04:32:56 <derf> halley: http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/gjiten/
Dec 09 04:35:59 <truls> yay, gjiten
Dec 09 04:36:22 * truls rams his DS into his n800 hoping to transfer kanji entering abilities
Dec 09 04:38:03 <Vulcanis> Oh sweet, maemo.org is down again.
Dec 09 04:38:26 <Vulcanis> They need to not be running it off a 770 in the basement.
Dec 09 04:39:41 <truls> they need to move the 770 to another room?
Dec 09 04:41:29 <Vulcanis> One that has better wifi, yes.
Dec 09 04:43:17 <ds3> basement? thought they run it in the vault ;)
Dec 09 04:44:11 <Vulcanis> Vault would be too expensive for nokia
Dec 09 04:44:23 <Vulcanis> If it were in a vault, they would atleast use a low-end dell.
Dec 09 04:48:39 <Vulcanis> apparently, even when maemo is up, the build-essential repo is down.
Dec 09 04:52:15 <milhouse> and we're off to the races with the big fight - come on Hatton!! :)
Dec 09 04:53:38 <milhouse> Mayweather is rocking already!!
Dec 09 05:07:32 <halley> derf, so you figured out the .m4 problem?
Dec 09 05:13:08 <halley> Pardon the noob question, but the dics .deb is 2.9MB but the dics .tar.gz is 42MB?
Dec 09 05:13:33 <Vulcanis> Pretty sure the .deb downloads part of it?
Dec 09 05:16:53 <halley> Setting up gjiten-dics (20070225) ...
Dec 09 05:16:53 <halley> gjiten_setdic: error while loading shared libraries: libdbus-1.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Dec 09 05:22:48 <halley> Also:
Dec 09 05:22:50 <halley> sh: missing ]]
Dec 09 05:22:50 <halley> /var/lib/dpkg/info/gjiten-dics.prerm: line 16: /usr/share/gjiten/dics/kanjidic: Permission denied
Dec 09 05:25:39 <milhouse> not looking good for ricky now :(
Dec 09 05:26:09 <halley> Purging configuration files for gjiten ...
Dec 09 05:26:10 <halley> rmdir: unrecognized option `--ignore-fail-on-non-empty'
Dec 09 05:28:23 <milhouse> bollox
Dec 09 05:28:38 <milhouse> mayweather class boxer, trash person ho hum
Dec 09 05:28:48 <milhouse> hatton ko'd in round 10
Dec 09 05:32:30 <halley> Will check back in tomorrow.
Dec 09 05:50:17 <|R> Anyone here from europe with a discount code?
Dec 09 05:50:27 <|R> (uhm, a bit early for europe maybe ;)
Dec 09 05:51:38 <milhouse> aye... london calling.
Dec 09 05:52:17 <|R> hehe you're in london? :)
Dec 09 05:52:31 <milhouse> i am
Dec 09 05:53:06 <|R> So no late sunday bed time ;)
Dec 09 05:53:48 <|R> Any idea if the nokia uk shop will ask for the credit card to match the address of the buyer & if it can ship to france ?
Dec 09 05:54:09 <milhouse> just been watching the boxing
Dec 09 05:54:30 <milhouse> i doubt the uk shop will ship to france - you'll probably have to order from the french nokia shop
Dec 09 05:55:01 <milhouse> it seems that each nokia shop requires credit cards registered in the country for each shop
Dec 09 05:55:16 <zpol> re
Dec 09 05:55:18 <|R> apparently the european code can change country, i chose france as i have relatives there, and now i figured, french only have channel 10-13 on wifi (And the azerty keyboard but that's less of an issue)
Dec 09 05:55:29 <|R> So i'm trying to figure out something :/
Dec 09 05:55:49 <milhouse> uk is 1-13 also
Dec 09 05:56:09 <milhouse> in fact i doubt the number of wifi channels is a hardware issue
Dec 09 05:56:11 <|R> all of europe is from what i can see except for france and spain which have (had?) stupid restrictions because of military use
Dec 09 05:56:18 <milhouse> keyboard would be a problem though
Dec 09 05:56:20 <|R> nah it's probably a firmware one
Dec 09 05:56:59 <|R> but i don't see nokia providing unlocking firmwares :)
Dec 09 05:57:55 <|R> my best bet might be to just sell my discount code for the full price of the device and buy it back here...
Dec 09 05:58:04 <|R> (I'm actually in canada...)
Dec 09 05:58:20 <|R> stupid me for not choosing US :/
Dec 09 05:58:26 <milhouse> i'm fairly sure the wifi channels are determined by language/region or something similar - there is after all one firmware for use globally
Dec 09 05:58:43 <|R> so if i choose japanese i get 1-14 ? :)
Dec 09 05:58:52 <|R> (there is no support for that but heheh ;)
Dec 09 05:59:11 <milhouse> in theory - but as it's not a supported region probably not :)
Dec 09 05:59:16 <milhouse> maybe a gconf setting?
Dec 09 05:59:25 <|R> haha maybe
Dec 09 05:59:40 <milhouse> my device in uk scans up to channel 13
Dec 09 05:59:57 <|R> Canada is 1-11 so i'd gain 2 more :)
Dec 09 06:00:13 <milhouse> but people in other regions scan only 1-11/12 (US?) - same firmware/software though
Dec 09 06:00:20 <|R> but at this point i really just want to have it ...
Dec 09 06:00:45 <milhouse> do you want an AZERTY keyboard?
Dec 09 06:00:51 <|R> i'd rather not
Dec 09 06:00:56 <milhouse> understandable :)
Dec 09 06:01:10 <|R> I'm french canadian but we use a french qwerty variant :)
Dec 09 06:01:40 <milhouse> i wonder if snap-in keyboard templates would have been possible...
Dec 09 06:02:07 <|R> but the problem is that if i'm stuck with a french device and that the wi-fi law is till in place there and that i use it here... i get 1-11 intersected with 10-13 ... so only channel 10-11 and only at 10mW from what i gathered on channels in europe from 10 to 13
Dec 09 06:02:28 <|R>  /till/still
Dec 09 06:03:03 <milhouse> i think the only difference between a french unit and a canadian unit will be the keyboard - all other hardware (inc wifi) will be identical, as will the software
Dec 09 06:03:12 <|R> maybe in the future they can use the GPS to enable wi-fi channels ;)
Dec 09 06:03:44 <milhouse> then we won't be able to lie :)
Dec 09 06:03:56 <|R> we'll have pocket GPS signal generators haha ;)
Dec 09 06:04:10 <milhouse> trouble is i'm not really sure what determines how many channels you get - i'm guessing language and/or region
Dec 09 06:04:28 <|R> yeah me neither... and nobody seems to be even aware of this issue
Dec 09 06:07:26 <astro76> hmm, or why not enable them all since it's not setup as AP mode
Dec 09 06:07:37 <astro76> no reason you shouldn't be able to travel worldwide with these devices
Dec 09 06:07:46 <|R> i know :/
Dec 09 06:07:51 <|R> only APs should be restricted
Dec 09 06:08:02 <astro76> I just verified, I can't see channel 14 on a US n800
Dec 09 06:08:07 <|R> though i guess scanning for hidden AP might be an issue
Dec 09 06:08:25 <|R> astro76 : same goes for 12 and 13 ?
Dec 09 06:08:35 <astro76> lemme check
Dec 09 06:08:54 <|R> 14 is really japan specific
Dec 09 06:09:20 <db48x> I don't know if a device can get fcc certification (or analogous certification for other countries) if they emit outside the set frequency bands
Dec 09 06:09:40 <db48x> doing that limitation in software is great, but it has to be there
Dec 09 06:10:14 <astro76> at least it could be changed easily
Dec 09 06:10:25 <astro76> |R, 12-14 all nothing
Dec 09 06:10:36 <|R> ok
Dec 09 06:12:00 * |R wonders how much he could get off eBaying the code and buying it from a local shop...
Dec 09 06:12:35 <|R> might be a lot simpler than getting someone to use their CC, send them money to pay for the 99E than some more for the shipping than wait twice for shipping...
Dec 09 06:15:23 <|R> it's crazy, 499E in France, that's 736 CAD $! it's 250$ more than the local price
Dec 09 06:16:34 <astro76> I've heard the Euro is doing well
Dec 09 06:21:31 <Vulcanis> |R: Its 250$ US.
Dec 09 06:21:38 <Vulcanis> Wait
Dec 09 06:21:45 <Vulcanis> Nevermind.
Dec 09 06:22:42 <|R> what? :)
Dec 09 06:23:56 <Vulcanis> I'm tired beyond thought.
Dec 09 06:24:02 <|R> hehe :)
Dec 09 06:26:13 <Vulcanis> I don't sleep well normally.  Tonight is bad because I am wide awake, but extremely fatigued mentally.
Dec 09 06:26:28 <milhouse> 99 EUR is 145 USD or 72 GBP - such a shame Nokia didn't offer it for 99 USD :)
Dec 09 06:26:48 <|R> indeed ;)
Dec 09 06:28:10 <|R> if someone wants a dev code for 350E i'd let it go i guess...
Dec 09 06:31:13 <zpol> bye
Dec 09 06:41:57 <keesj> where is libreadline4-dev to be found?
Dec 09 06:42:54 <keesj> and why isn't it installed in sbox!
Dec 09 06:56:06 <K`zan> Sigh, I think I need to reset my USB, I think setting it to host mode keeps it from mounting as a mass storage device on the PC now.  What to do?
Dec 09 06:58:37 <zoran> K`zan, how did you get host usb mode?
Dec 09 06:58:38 <K`zan> cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 09 06:58:59 <K`zan> echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode
Dec 09 06:59:00 <zoran> by the hand?
Dec 09 06:59:03 <K`zan> Yes
Dec 09 06:59:14 <zoran> it should work
Dec 09 06:59:21 <zoran> what if you reboot?
Dec 09 06:59:39 <K`zan> Thought I had blown it up, but the SD card reader works in it, but the PC sees nothing.
Dec 09 07:00:10 <zoran> changed something on memory card fs?
Dec 09 07:00:13 <K`zan> reboot == hold down power key until it shuts down and then restart it again - if so did that.
Dec 09 07:00:24 <zoran> or shutdown -r now
Dec 09 07:00:30 <zoran> ah, k
Dec 09 07:00:33 <K`zan> Let me try that
Dec 09 07:00:42 <K`zan> Thanks for the help here, appreciate it.
Dec 09 07:00:45 <zoran> should be the same
Dec 09 07:01:09 <K`zan> Unplugged the USB cable too...
Dec 09 07:01:29 <zoran> default was "user"?
Dec 09 07:01:34 <K`zan> Restarting now, this time with the green text on the screen.
Dec 09 07:01:41 <K`zan> No Sir, IIRC I was root
Dec 09 07:01:48 <zoran> hm?
Dec 09 07:02:02 <K`zan> OK, back up, lemme see what happens when I plug in the usb cable.
Dec 09 07:02:52 <K`zan> Yes, whew, working now.  Thank you VERY much.
Dec 09 07:02:59 <zoran> :)
Dec 09 07:03:06 <K`zan> I was afraid that I had done something to it with the USB power injector :-).
Dec 09 07:03:25 <zoran> the ral fun is to try
Dec 09 07:03:28 <zoran> *real
Dec 09 07:03:58 <K`zan> Yes, but if I blow this up, I would be VERY unhappy.
Dec 09 07:04:13 <K`zan> Power injector works, just nothing I have is supported.
Dec 09 07:04:16 <zoran> is it triple cable, used for usb hdd
Dec 09 07:04:31 <K`zan> I made my own :-).
Dec 09 07:04:47 <zoran> I have one when I bought external disk
Dec 09 07:04:54 <zoran> never tried, must to say
Dec 09 07:05:06 <zoran> but usb hub should be powered on
Dec 09 07:05:19 <zoran> to give power to external devices
Dec 09 07:05:37 <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/tmp/USB-PI-2.pdf
Dec 09 07:05:45 <keesj> perhaps using a hub is a safe choice
Dec 09 07:05:54 <zoran> ah, must to go to graphics  :(
Dec 09 07:05:58 <K`zan> I was wondering if a USB hub might be the smarter way to go.
Dec 09 07:06:12 <zoran> yeeeeeeeeeeeeeees
Dec 09 07:06:15 <K`zan> just a pdf, png and jpg outputs from gschem are ugly.
Dec 09 07:06:23 <zoran> need a time
Dec 09 07:06:25 <keesj> you still would need a converter plug
Dec 09 07:06:47 <K`zan> And I scrapped a usb 1.1 hub to get the connectors LOL.  At least it was fun to build...
Dec 09 07:08:14 <K`zan> keesj: I set it up to use regular cables to do the plug conversions.
Dec 09 07:08:42 <zoran> as I see, my triple cable would suffice
Dec 09 07:08:53 <keesj> so your replaced the square plug of the hub with a normal a plug?
Dec 09 07:10:38 <K`zan> No, connectors on the injector are female, took them off a hub.  Pix at:
Dec 09 07:10:39 <zoran> K`zan, do you see anything through your self-made hub?
Dec 09 07:10:56 <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/tmp/USB-PI/
Dec 09 07:11:13 <K`zan> It saw the SD card reader for sure.
Dec 09 07:11:27 <zoran> good enough
Dec 09 07:11:34 <K`zan> I think it saw the usb->serial dongle and the ethernet dongle, just not supported.
Dec 09 07:11:58 <zoran> need some drivers
Dec 09 07:12:03 <K`zan> Pix with the n800 camera under a fluorescent lamp...
Dec 09 07:12:25 <K`zan> Yep, as I understand it, I will have to build my own kernel with the modules to support those devices.
Dec 09 07:12:51 <keesj> K`zan: nice
Dec 09 07:12:53 <zoran> yes, protocols just liek in usb hdd enclosure
Dec 09 07:13:16 <keesj> what kind of program did you use for the schematics?
Dec 09 07:13:24 <K`zan> Now that would be interesting, a USB HD for it.  Got one that I am not using.  a 500G drive on the n800 LOL.
Dec 09 07:13:40 <K`zan> keesj: I used gschem
Dec 09 07:13:56 <K`zan> Part of GEDA.
Dec 09 07:14:07 <K`zan> Coffee buffer overflow, brb
Dec 09 07:14:26 <zoran> not im my bsd port collection
Dec 09 07:14:50 <keesj> cool, I will look into it! I tried pcb yesterday
Dec 09 07:15:30 <zoran> that hdd have to be on the usb hub, not on n800 in fact
Dec 09 07:15:34 <zoran> *has
Dec 09 07:15:55 <keesj> thanks so much for the info!
Dec 09 07:18:00 <derf> hahlo: Still around?
Dec 09 07:18:03 <derf> Err.
Dec 09 07:18:12 <derf> That's not who I meant to nick complete.
Dec 09 07:18:25 <derf> I guess that means halley is not.
Dec 09 07:25:57 <K`zan> PCB is pretty good too, been using both gschem and PCB for quite a while now.
Dec 09 07:38:17 <K`zan> Thanks for the help folks.  Gonna call it a night while I am ahead :-).
Dec 09 08:22:29 <Fenix-Dark> hi
Dec 09 08:23:09 <Fenix-Dark> is the nokia n800 able to play your average standard def video at a reasonable fps (without re-encoding)?
Dec 09 08:24:13 <Vulcanis> what format
Dec 09 08:24:19 <Vulcanis> it shouldd
Dec 09 08:24:39 <Fenix-Dark> divx .avi file
Dec 09 08:25:00 <Vulcanis> I think that is supported?
Dec 09 08:25:28 <Fenix-Dark> i'm considering whether or not i should replace my dead 770 (which could not play video files fast enough w/out being re-encoded) with a n800 or n810
Dec 09 08:25:46 <Vulcanis> n800 is worth it.  810, not so much, unless you REALLY want the hardware KB
Dec 09 08:26:03 <Vulcanis> n800 with os2008 has the same processor speed and memory, as far as I can remember
Dec 09 08:26:37 <astro76> mplayer will but it will probably choke on some scenes, best to re-encode to within a 400x240 size
Dec 09 08:26:42 <acydlord> i wasnt going to buy an n810, but then i got accepted for the dev discount
Dec 09 08:27:03 <Fenix-Dark> hrm
Dec 09 08:27:21 <Fenix-Dark> i really liked using my 770 to watch movies 'n such, but re-encoding is a big hassle
Dec 09 08:27:57 <acydlord> would be nice if they switched on that nice h.264 decoder on the processor
Dec 09 08:27:59 <Fenix-Dark> so with os2008 there would be no difference in video playback between the 800 and 810?
Dec 09 08:28:23 <Vulcanis> not really.
Dec 09 08:28:23 <acydlord> most likely not
Dec 09 08:28:43 <Fenix-Dark> thats a shame
Dec 09 08:30:08 <Fenix-Dark> i'm looking at the specs of the 800 vs 810, the 810 has a "mini SDHC card slot" is that the same as the 770's rsmmc slot?
Dec 09 08:31:15 <acydlord> nah, different form factor
Dec 09 08:31:25 <Fenix-Dark> damn
Dec 09 08:31:33 <acydlord> mini sd is more common that rsmmc
Dec 09 08:31:49 <Fenix-Dark> yea, but i already bought a 1gb rsmmc card to accomodate my now dead 770
Dec 09 08:32:06 <acydlord> that sucks
Dec 09 08:32:35 <Fenix-Dark> eh could be worse, memory cards are cheap now
Dec 09 08:33:12 <astro76> the rsmmc will fit in the n800's sd slot with an adapter
Dec 09 08:33:32 <Fenix-Dark> good
Dec 09 08:33:42 <Vulcanis> The reason I like the n800 better than the n810, mostly because the n810 is 10gb total, and the n800 is 16
Dec 09 08:33:48 <acydlord> oh yeah, i forgot they had the sd adapter
Dec 09 08:34:12 <acydlord> it would be sweet it the kernel would support up to 32gb SDHc cards
Dec 09 08:34:28 <Vulcanis> Just wait for 09 <g>
Dec 09 08:35:17 <Fenix-Dark> i wont be using it as an ipod, so 10gb vs 16 total gb of memory isn't a big deal
Dec 09 08:35:20 <acydlord> i wish i could find my second stylus, i'd like to sell my n800 with both
Dec 09 08:35:37 <Fenix-Dark> acydlord, mind if i ask why you're selling it?
Dec 09 08:35:39 <acydlord> i use mine as a laptop replacement, so i enjoy the storage space
Dec 09 08:36:02 <acydlord> Fenix-Dark, i'm quite broke and may need to sell my n800 to get my n810
Dec 09 08:36:13 <Fenix-Dark> heh
Dec 09 08:36:42 <Fenix-Dark> coincidentally, my 770 broke right before the compusa warranty ends
Dec 09 08:37:10 <acydlord> that's lucky
Dec 09 08:37:27 <acydlord> my old laptop died 2 days after the warranty ended
Dec 09 08:37:35 <Fenix-Dark> same thing happened with my dell pc
Dec 09 08:38:50 <acydlord> dissapointing when that happens
Dec 09 08:38:59 <Fenix-Dark> yea
Dec 09 08:39:59 <acydlord> my friend had a girl spill a soda on his laptop not too long after the extended warranty ended
Dec 09 08:40:24 <acydlord> it's like the more expensive the electronic the worse the luck is
Dec 09 08:40:31 <Fenix-Dark> heh yae
Dec 09 08:40:33 <Fenix-Dark> yea*
Dec 09 08:41:01 <Fenix-Dark> are either of the 810 or 800 equipped with usb 2.0?
Dec 09 08:41:12 <milhouse> yes both
Dec 09 08:41:28 <milhouse> i think the 770 had USB2 also
Dec 09 08:41:33 <Fenix-Dark> i dont believe so
Dec 09 08:41:39 <Fenix-Dark> well
Dec 09 08:41:44 <Fenix-Dark> if it did, it didnt run as fast as it should
Dec 09 08:41:56 <milhouse> that may be true, but doesn't mean it isn't USB2
Dec 09 08:42:03 <Fenix-Dark> indeed
Dec 09 08:42:53 <acydlord> yeah it was usb 2.0
Dec 09 08:43:03 <Fenix-Dark> ok
Dec 09 08:43:09 <acydlord> i used to get the warning on my old computer that has usb1.1 on it
Dec 09 09:27:24 <_matthias_> Fenix-Dark: the same just happend to my laptop display :(
Dec 09 13:47:37 <zpol> re
Dec 09 13:48:24 <eichi_> hello
Dec 09 13:53:45 <rocketman> jellos
Dec 09 16:00:12 <kulve> does somebody want to test my ogg-support package with media player support on 2008?
Dec 09 16:05:30 <melmoth> grumble
Dec 09 16:05:39 <melmoth> i just receive a "maemo-users-bounces@   You have been unsubscribed from the maemo-users mailing list " mail.
Dec 09 16:05:56 <melmoth> any other around having the same ?
Dec 09 16:06:03 <kulve> I didn't
Dec 09 16:06:26 <melmoth> and http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists.html is not available.
Dec 09 16:07:50 <SignalN800> hi guys
Dec 09 16:08:22 <halley> Are you AKA Signale007 or somesuch?
Dec 09 16:11:14 <astro76> melmoth, it's working here, but maemo.org does indeed go down often
Dec 09 16:11:54 <melmoth> workgin again here, i m re subscribing..but it feel odd to be unsubscribed automagically
Dec 09 16:17:44 <kulve> melmoth: yeah, it sound really odd
Dec 09 16:17:53 <kulve> but maemo.org is what it is..
Dec 09 16:18:41 <keesj> melmoth: I did recieve a diffrent bounce mail
Dec 09 16:21:14 <dick-richardson> that thomas schmidt repo is the cats meow
Dec 09 16:27:42 <alterego> Anyone know what the GPS chip in the N810 is?
Dec 09 16:29:54 <|R> i don't know, but i was wondering if using it with an external MTK one could make a very precise GPS :)
Dec 09 16:30:33 <zerojay> Testing for scientologists...
Dec 09 16:30:34 <zerojay> xenu
Dec 09 16:30:41 * zerojay sees if anyone drops.
Dec 09 16:30:45 <zerojay> Nope.. cool.
Dec 09 16:31:09 <|R> what? :P
Dec 09 16:31:19 <zerojay> http://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/wordlist.html
Dec 09 16:31:25 <dick-richardson> zerojay: i'm gonna have to drop an atom bomb on you know
Dec 09 16:31:30 <dick-richardson> *now
Dec 09 16:31:42 <zerojay> dick-richardson: Why?
Dec 09 16:31:48 <dick-richardson> after putting you in a volcano
Dec 09 16:32:03 <dick-richardson> I honestly don't know...something to do w/thetas I think
Dec 09 16:32:11 <zerojay> Mmmkay.
Dec 09 16:32:46 <kpel> hi all
Dec 09 16:32:49 <dick-richardson> you should read up on their beliefs. it's...informative
Dec 09 16:33:07 <zerojay> Yeah, I know. Take a look at the link I pasted.
Dec 09 16:33:48 <kulve> does somebody want to test my ogg-support package with media player support on 2008?
Dec 09 16:33:54 <alterego> Just wondering if I can set the almanac in it.
Dec 09 16:34:24 <zerojay> kulve: Yes.
Dec 09 16:34:55 <GeneralAntilles> Damn Scientologists . . .
Dec 09 16:35:10 <derf> halley: Around?
Dec 09 16:35:14 <kulve> zerojay: do you have the 0.3 versio installed?
Dec 09 16:35:18 <kulve> +n
Dec 09 16:35:28 <zerojay> kulve: I don't have ogg-support installed right now.
Dec 09 16:35:57 <halley> derf, aye.
Dec 09 16:36:00 <kulve> install it first from the maemo.org/downloads as the 0.4 is not in any repo yet and the app.mgr won't install dependencies unless the package is in a repo
Dec 09 16:36:11 <derf> halley: Try the dics packages again.
Dec 09 16:36:16 <halley> derf, saw your newest files, will try those.
Dec 09 16:36:40 <halley> Wasn't sure if you saw my errors of last night before I logged off.
Dec 09 16:37:13 <zerojay> kulve: k
Dec 09 16:39:12 <halley> dics installed cleanly, trying extras
Dec 09 16:40:02 <halley> I'm gonna have to symlink the dics to mmc2 at some point.
Dec 09 16:40:13 <halley> extra installed cleanly, trying app
Dec 09 16:41:06 <halley> Huge number of Attached/Installed schema messages but appears to be installed.
Dec 09 16:41:09 <halley> Trying a run.
Dec 09 16:41:37 <dick-richardson> isnt' vnc viewer in a repo, yet?
Dec 09 16:41:51 <derf> There's still a few bugs in the program itself that I never got around to fixing.
Dec 09 16:42:31 <halley> Anything serious to usability?
Dec 09 16:43:22 <derf> Don't open either the kanji dictionary or the radical list (I forget which), close it, and then open it again.
Dec 09 16:44:03 <halley> http://halley.cc/screenshot04.png
Dec 09 16:44:42 <derf> HOORJ!
Dec 09 16:45:16 <halley> Is that some norweigian way of saying hooray?  ;)
Dec 09 16:46:46 <derf> It's some IRC way of saying hooray.
Dec 09 16:46:53 <lopz> re
Dec 09 16:47:35 <halley> Wow, where'd all these specialized extra dics come from?  Never seen them in the usual web places.
Dec 09 16:47:41 <derf> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HOORJ!
Dec 09 16:47:58 <halley> I figured extras would have names and places, but Geology and Linguistics?
Dec 09 16:48:25 <derf> They were linked on the gjiten homepage.
Dec 09 16:48:59 <derf> http://gjiten.sourceforge.net/dictfiles/
Dec 09 16:50:25 <derf> Also, don't ask me why the enamdict there is 61k when the one I downloaded is 30MB.
Dec 09 16:50:32 <halley> Heh.
Dec 09 16:51:10 <halley> I think a lot of the edict stuff (and enamdict) are trying to be J->* language, so that might just be a stripped J->E.
Dec 09 16:52:40 <alterego> Hmm, shame the n810 dmesg output isn't available anymore
Dec 09 16:53:20 <derf> I think I did finally stop installing the 22MB wadoku (JA->DE) dictionary by default.
Dec 09 16:54:08 <halley> derf, how much gtk effort is involved in making the options buttons area fold in/out?  Or maybe it does and I don't see how yet?
Dec 09 16:55:56 <zs> hi, is it possible to write apps using gtkmm for os2007?
Dec 09 16:56:03 <derf> I suppose I could put it in a GtkExpander, but then it would use more vertical space by default.
Dec 09 16:56:41 <halley> derf, maybe popups instead of 4 rows of radios?
Dec 09 16:56:47 <alterego> Zs, yes
Dec 09 16:57:18 <derf> halley: Now you're getting into a lot more work.
Dec 09 16:57:22 <zs> alterego: ok thank you :~)
Dec 09 16:57:34 <halley> derf, yeah, don't want to seem ungrateful ;)
Dec 09 16:58:11 <derf> I don't want to seem lazy (which I am).
Dec 09 16:58:41 <halley> If you were as lazy as I am, you wouldn't have gotten this far.
Dec 09 16:58:45 <derf> But drop-downs don't help for the check-box options, which means you already need most of that vertical space anyway.
Dec 09 17:00:03 <halley> Well, (*) Dictionary [ ... v ] becomes    Dictionary [ All   v ], and [X] Auto Adjust [X] Limit [ 100 ] fits on one line.
Dec 09 17:01:41 * halley searches for status on kanjipad.
Dec 09 17:02:03 <derf> Yeah, let me know.
Dec 09 17:02:19 <derf> I never really found kanjipad useful, but then again I never tried to use it with a stylus.
Dec 09 17:02:42 <halley> It seems folded into im-ja but nobody's actually PUT im-ja on maemo.
Dec 09 17:03:16 <halley> Stylus wins over mouse, and it's good in the field if you're reading a street sign or something.
Dec 09 17:03:32 <derf> I always found I was much faster just using radical lookup.
Dec 09 17:03:51 * halley is looking for how to get to radical lookup right now.
Dec 09 17:05:50 <derf> http://gjiten.garage.maemo.org/gjiten-kanjidic-screenshot.png
Dec 09 17:06:10 <derf> Enable Search By Radical, click Show Radicals.
Dec 09 17:06:30 <GeneralAntilles> It's so . . . purple.
Dec 09 17:06:47 <halley> Not in my theme.
Dec 09 17:06:59 <halley> After it gets down to 1 kanji, how do I actually see it?
Dec 09 17:07:07 <halley> Oh, close.
Dec 09 17:07:33 <halley> I like how it weeds out radicals that can't appear together.
Dec 09 17:10:24 <halley> Mind if I give you a new app icon?  The current one is half-size and hard to see.
Dec 09 17:11:05 <derf> Go ahead... I think I just copied the original's.
Dec 09 17:11:27 <halley> What's the format?  ppm or png?
Dec 09 17:12:14 <derf> png
Dec 09 17:13:13 <halley> Yeah, if you *close* the radicals it can't get it back, but if you minimize it, it can show again.
Dec 09 17:13:36 <derf> /usr/share/pixmaps/gjiten/gjiten-logo.png
Dec 09 17:13:42 <derf> halley: Yeah, that's the bug I was referring to.
Dec 09 17:14:36 <halley> Can you make out the kanji in the original?  It doesn't look like 'jiten'?
Dec 09 17:16:51 <derf> It is, in fact. 辞典
Dec 09 17:17:41 <halley> 辞典 - ah, duh, I was lazy and just tried first jiten in IME.  時点
Dec 09 17:17:58 <derf> You need to learn more kanji, then.
Dec 09 17:18:18 <halley> Well, that's why I want gjiten ;)
Dec 09 17:19:21 <czr> utf-8 is scary
Dec 09 17:20:14 <toresbe> pf
Dec 09 17:20:24 <halley> bash: pf: command not found
Dec 09 17:20:34 <toresbe> rm -rf
Dec 09 17:21:25 <czr> PF_FOO
Dec 09 17:22:24 <alterego> czr, can you confirm the n810 has a SiRF Star III GPS reciever?
Dec 09 17:22:33 <alterego> Hello by-the way
Dec 09 17:22:51 <czr> alterego, how could I confirm that?
Dec 09 17:22:55 <czr> hello :-)
Dec 09 17:23:35 <alterego> erm .. dmesg, sysfs mayme?
Dec 09 17:24:07 <czr> let me see
Dec 09 17:24:15 <czr> the battery on it is dead, give me a sec
Dec 09 17:24:59 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody needs to hack up an antenna port for it.
Dec 09 17:25:17 * czr hands a small drill bore to GeneralAntilles 
Dec 09 17:25:18 <zs> so how can i install gtkmm on my SDK?
Dec 09 17:26:38 <czr> alterego, what if would the gps thingy be on?
Dec 09 17:26:57 <alterego> I dunno :)
Dec 09 17:27:18 <alterego> UART maybe, more likely memory mapped
Dec 09 17:29:21 <czr> nothing in dmesg
Dec 09 17:29:33 <czr> let me start the app, maybe there'll be some additional info
Dec 09 17:30:05 <alterego> Yah, it'll be off when not in use
Dec 09 17:30:26 <czr> well. no messages in dmesg about it
Dec 09 17:30:37 <hahlo> can I boot os2007 to console and only start X when need to?
Dec 09 17:30:49 <czr> hahlo, no
Dec 09 17:30:49 <alterego> Maybe a kern mod. Or something in gpsd. Oh well, nevermind :)
Dec 09 17:31:00 <czr> hahlo, also, what do you mean with 'console'?
Dec 09 17:31:14 <czr> hahlo, if you replace the initfs then yes, you can do whatever you like.
Dec 09 17:31:15 <alterego> hahlo: how would you type: 'startx' ?
Dec 09 17:31:28 <hahlo> czr: like pc-linux virtual-console?
Dec 09 17:31:39 <hahlo> some lower init
Dec 09 17:32:02 <czr> that'd require a fbdev
Dec 09 17:32:11 <czr> and fbcon support
Dec 09 17:32:14 <czr> and input drivers
Dec 09 17:32:33 <hahlo> and they are all made?
Dec 09 17:32:39 <czr> and no, not possible in os2007.
Dec 09 17:32:46 <hahlo> ok
Dec 09 17:32:53 <hahlo> shame
Dec 09 17:33:00 <czr> why?
Dec 09 17:33:05 <czr> alterego, /usr/sbin/gpsd -n -N -F /tmp/.gpsd_ctrl_sock /dev/pgp
Dec 09 17:33:42 <hahlo> I really don't need X much
Dec 09 17:34:24 <|R> hehe why not just try to auto start xterm in full screen instead? :)
Dec 09 17:34:30 <|R> might be less asshle
Dec 09 17:34:45 <czr> hahlo, which device do you have?
Dec 09 17:34:55 <|R> hassle oops
Dec 09 17:35:09 <czr> |R, nice one :-)
Dec 09 17:35:17 <|R> :P
Dec 09 17:36:39 <alterego> Appearently it's UART
Dec 09 17:36:53 <hahlo> n800
Dec 09 17:37:24 <|R> oh, so no drivers needed...
Dec 09 17:37:44 <zs> how can i install gtkmm on my SDK?
Dec 09 17:38:00 <czr> hahlo, so how were you planning of inputting text into the console without X?
Dec 09 17:38:05 <czr> hahlo, external keyboard?
Dec 09 17:38:54 <czr> alterego, yeah, no driver in the kernel that's related to gps in any way
Dec 09 17:39:04 <czr> just went through all the drivers under /sys/module/
Dec 09 17:39:07 <GeneralAntilles> I want to hide the Nokia boot screen and show the console while booting.
Dec 09 17:39:36 <|R> GeneralAntilles : that would be cool :)
Dec 09 17:39:44 * czr sighs
Dec 09 17:40:08 <czr> why not rotating 3d bumpmapped cube while you're at it? with caustics if a regular one is too easy
Dec 09 17:40:16 <|R> with an ascii art demo running over it haha ;)
Dec 09 17:40:23 <hahlo> yes bt keyboard
Dec 09 17:40:27 <|R> czr hhaha that too :P
Dec 09 17:40:33 <GeneralAntilles> Why's so problematic with showing the console? :\
Dec 09 17:40:46 <czr> cause there isn't any included?
Dec 09 17:40:55 <GeneralAntilles> Well, good to know.
Dec 09 17:40:56 <hahlo> I wouuld also like to hide nokia logo on boot
Dec 09 17:41:00 <czr> although I'm not 100% sure
Dec 09 17:41:15 <GeneralAntilles> Hardly an unreasonable request if you're comparing it to other 'nix oses. ;)
Dec 09 17:41:22 <halley> hahlo, how often do you *really* boot?
Dec 09 17:41:30 <czr> next thing you'll want is separate user accounts and multiuser support? ;-)
Dec 09 17:41:37 <derf> hahlo: Just replace the logo file.
Dec 09 17:41:37 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Dec 09 17:41:50 <hahlo> not very often maybe twice a day
Dec 09 17:41:58 <alterego> Must be serial then, appeatantly it's a serial uart interface. NMEA and some binary interface.
Dec 09 17:42:02 <derf> czr: I had no problems with separate user accounts.
Dec 09 17:42:10 <halley> GeneralAntilles, there's no textgen framebuffer on the hardware.
Dec 09 17:42:18 <halley> hahlo, let it sleep, don't shut it down :P
Dec 09 17:42:25 <derf> And multiple users worked just fine over ssh.
Dec 09 17:42:42 <derf> Now, getting anyone other than "user" to log into the GUI... that'd just be silly.
Dec 09 17:42:45 <hahlo> where is this thing bootloader anyway, no grub or lilo at least?
Dec 09 17:43:03 <halley> It's not a PC.
Dec 09 17:43:18 <czr> derf, and how do you login into the device without ssh as another user? think of graphical use
Dec 09 17:43:28 <czr> derf, aka display managers. that was my point originally
Dec 09 17:43:40 <czr> having separate d-bus session daemons etc
Dec 09 17:43:44 <derf> czr: As I said, silly.
Dec 09 17:43:49 <derf> Who would want to do that?
Dec 09 17:44:09 <czr> anyone who wants "regular" unix on the device. not me.
Dec 09 17:44:14 <hahlo> can I flash some real linux on it like debian or so?
Dec 09 17:45:01 <alterego> It runs debian based software
Dec 09 17:45:04 <czr> hmm. what was the open sw stack?
Dec 09 17:45:13 <czr> the one that aims to replace the closed components
Dec 09 17:45:44 <hahlo> like we can flash our ipaqs
Dec 09 17:45:51 <alterego> What's wrong with the xterminal? Why would you run it non-graphically.
Dec 09 17:46:22 <alterego> hahlo, if you're clever enough you can.
Dec 09 17:46:30 <|R> czr : mamona ?
Dec 09 17:46:35 <czr> yeah. that one
Dec 09 17:46:36 <hahlo> cool
Dec 09 17:46:38 <czr> hahlo, google for mamona
Dec 09 17:46:45 <hahlo> thanks
Dec 09 17:46:50 <czr> it may brick your device.
Dec 09 17:47:04 <|R> and no WPA yet
Dec 09 17:48:06 <derf> I mean, I mostly use X so I can have lots of xterms open.
Dec 09 17:48:28 <derf> You're going to have real fun trying to press Alt+F# to switch between consoles without X.
Dec 09 17:49:18 <czr> derf, he has external keyboard
Dec 09 17:49:23 <czr> he/she. /me shrugs
Dec 09 17:49:51 <|R> czr : he was statistically correct unfortunately ;)
Dec 09 17:50:45 <czr> unfortuantely? :-) hardly.
Dec 09 17:50:49 <|R> haha
Dec 09 17:51:40 <|R> well, i wish computer sciences wasn't as much man driven as it is.
Dec 09 17:51:56 <czr> does it really matter?
Dec 09 17:52:02 * czr doesn't think so
Dec 09 17:52:10 <|R> In theory no, in practice yes :P
Dec 09 17:52:13 <czr> not unless you plan to date other computer scientists
Dec 09 17:52:30 <|R> No but the mood changes a lot and it cuts down on the car talk from some guys... hehe
Dec 09 17:52:50 <|R> and the development of things at a higher level might have interesting twists because of that
Dec 09 17:52:54 <|R> but i'm just guessing here :)
Dec 09 17:52:58 * czr shrugs
Dec 09 17:53:26 <|R> But, yeah, the bachelor would have been less boring with girls as it felt like a prison... ;)
Dec 09 17:57:01 * czr now knows where all the evilness comes from within N810
Dec 09 17:57:05 <czr> dmesg: hub 1-0:1.0: TT requires at most 8 FS bit times (666 ns)
Dec 09 17:57:26 <|R> what's that?
Dec 09 17:58:50 <czr> a line from dmesg
Dec 09 18:01:49 <|R> czr : indeed, but... i don't understand what i says? :)
Dec 09 18:01:52 <|R> i/it
Dec 09 18:02:40 <GeneralAntilles> 666
Dec 09 18:03:43 <|R> ah ha!
Dec 09 18:03:59 <alterego> I tried host mode yesterday .. Nothing ..
Dec 09 18:04:41 <czr> thanks GeneralAntilles
Dec 09 18:18:14 <script> maemo.org login issues make me wanna throw up
Dec 09 18:19:25 <hugolp> anyone here has got quetoo working on N800 OS2008?
Dec 09 18:19:28 <script> it's great developing software, having the ability to upload packages to extras/ but not beeing able to edit descriptions in application-catalogue ..
Dec 09 18:19:38 <script> BIG mess
Dec 09 18:19:52 <kulve> script: what url are you usin?
Dec 09 18:20:01 <script> kulve: https://maemo.org/ e.g.?
Dec 09 18:20:29 <kulve> script: so, maemo.org/download and not download.maemo.org? Or what catalogue do you mean..
Dec 09 18:20:48 <script> https://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008 this one ..
Dec 09 18:20:55 <kulve> ok
Dec 09 18:21:21 <ywwg> Is there anything special that has to be done to quit out of a hildon program?  I am calling gtk.main_quit() but the program does not exit
Dec 09 18:21:27 <ywwg> (this is in pymaemo)
Dec 09 18:23:34 <czr> ywwg, that should be enough, but I don't know whether pymaemo works properly, so..
Dec 09 18:24:18 <ywwg> czr: ok thanks.  I think I might have a thread hanging around that might be causing the problem
Dec 09 18:24:44 <dick-richardson> anyone running garnet vm?
Dec 09 18:24:45 <halley> ywwg, are you then actually ending python?
Dec 09 18:25:32 <dick-richardson> I'm wondering if there's a command line argument that can be passed to go right to an installed app
Dec 09 18:25:36 <ywwg> halley: it calls gtk.main_quit() and then it does not seem to exit
Dec 09 18:25:52 <ywwg> halley: it's supposed to print one last logging message after that, but it never gets printed
Dec 09 18:41:18 <Andy80> hi all
Dec 09 18:44:29 <ywwg> halley, czr: so I figured out if I tell my application to quit itself it's fine, but if I'm quitting in response to a "destroy" event it doesn't exit properly
Dec 09 18:46:18 <czr> ywwg, weird. that should work as well.
Dec 09 18:50:16 <alterego> Anyone have any luck with host mode on the n800?
Dec 09 18:51:02 <truent> host mode?
Dec 09 18:51:28 <kulve> I just upgraded the ogg-support 0.4 for 2008 to my repo. It should include now initial support for the Media Player. Let me know, if there's something wrong with it.
Dec 09 18:56:11 <alterego> Yes, the mythical usb host mode. I managed to enable it but not get it functioning properly.
Dec 09 18:57:02 <dick-richardson> alterego: is that supposed to allow you to plug usb devices into the unit?
Dec 09 18:58:31 <alterego> Yes dick
Dec 09 18:59:26 <Andy80> cannot switch to CHINOOK_X86 target anymore.... it tells me "You must close your other Scratchbox session first" but I exited Scratchbox and logged out again... I tried to restart the scratchbox-core service too, but nothing to do... any suggestion?
Dec 09 18:59:36 <script> reboot :-)
Dec 09 18:59:44 <script> sb-menu -> kill ....
Dec 09 19:00:53 <Andy80> script: the KillAll function worked, thanks :)
Dec 09 19:00:57 <kulve> Andy80: you have some prosesses running that you've started from the arm target. Like qemu?
Dec 09 19:01:22 <kulve> oh, it worked? I almost always need to kill them manually..
Dec 09 19:01:47 <Andy80> kulve: yes, just switched to the other target :)
Dec 09 19:03:45 <Andy80> mmm... perfect... the python app cannot open the display... damn...
Dec 09 19:04:14 <Tu13es> should I upgrade my n800 to os2008?
Dec 09 19:04:23 <kulve> Tu13es: imo, maybe not yet
Dec 09 19:04:39 <Tu13es> would I have to reformat again when the final version comes out?
Dec 09 19:04:45 <kulve> Tu13es: it still has some (non-fatal) bugs and not all the apps are yet ported to it..
Dec 09 19:04:53 <kulve> Tu13es: I hope not..
Dec 09 19:05:03 <Tu13es> eh, I think I'll do it
Dec 09 19:05:07 <Tu13es> i haven't used it much lately
Dec 09 19:05:07 <kulve> Because I'm using it
Dec 09 19:05:19 <|R> yes, to reflash you need to reformat
Dec 09 19:05:36 <Tu13es> hm
Dec 09 19:05:39 <kulve> they claim that it can reinstall the apps back semi-automatically after a flash in 2008
Dec 09 19:05:47 <Tu13es> kulve: what bugs?
Dec 09 19:05:56 <|R> kulve : anyone tried this yet?%
Dec 09 19:06:12 <|R> considering the amount of dpkg -i i do, i guess it's not working for me :P
Dec 09 19:06:22 <kulve> Tu13es: it fails to reconnect to my wlan on boot, even though it claims the connection is up. And the dimming seems to bug. So nothing fatal
Dec 09 19:06:34 <Tu13es> interesting
Dec 09 19:06:42 <kulve> |R: tried what..?
Dec 09 19:07:18 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, |R.
Dec 09 19:07:21 <GeneralAntilles> It worked OK.
Dec 09 19:07:23 <|R> kulve : the apps reinstall
Dec 09 19:07:40 <|R> GeneralAntilles : ok, it just saves dpkg -l 's output and the sources.list?
Dec 09 19:07:41 <GeneralAntilles> Extras is disabled by default, so it'll fail if you don't enable that first.
Dec 09 19:08:01 <GeneralAntilles> It'll also choke on stuff you've installed from .deb
Dec 09 19:08:04 <GeneralAntilles> but it DOES remember them.
Dec 09 19:08:09 <|R> ok
Dec 09 19:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> So at least you have a list to work from.
Dec 09 19:08:19 <|R> won't have to do it by hand hehe :)
Dec 09 19:08:34 <GeneralAntilles> It doesn't seem to remember Application Menu positions, either.
Dec 09 19:08:41 <GeneralAntilles> so you have to monitor it while it's running. :\
Dec 09 19:08:46 <GeneralAntilles> Better than nothing, I suppose.
Dec 09 19:08:58 <|R> uhm ok, worst case it takes a minute to reorder if it's just that :)
Dec 09 19:08:58 <Tu13es> hm, I'll give updating a shot
Dec 09 19:09:09 <GeneralAntilles> I'd wait for the final, Tu13es.
Dec 09 19:09:11 <|R> So i'll try to keep my sources.list updated this time ;)
Dec 09 19:09:16 <GeneralAntilles> We're talking, maybe, 5 days here.
Dec 09 19:09:21 <|R> (waiting to flash from 2008b before using those features...)
Dec 09 19:09:29 <Tu13es> I won't have as much free time in 5 days
Dec 09 19:09:40 <GeneralAntilles> gronmayer.com/it makes installing repos _VERY_ easy, |R.
Dec 09 19:09:44 <Tu13es> besides, as I haven't really used my tablet much lately, nothing's exactly mission-critical
Dec 09 19:09:52 <|R> GeneralAntilles : indeed, i'll look into it :)
Dec 09 19:10:03 <|R> collecting them by hand is tedious ;)
Dec 09 19:10:24 <GeneralAntilles> It's one-click for all repos, basically.
Dec 09 19:10:26 <GeneralAntilles> Well, two.
Dec 09 19:10:28 <GeneralAntilles> Select all
Dec 09 19:10:29 * |R wants his tablet to become mission critical for some reasons ;)
Dec 09 19:10:31 <GeneralAntilles> install selected
Dec 09 19:11:00 <GeneralAntilles> I wouldn't call my tablet mission critical, but I would feel a very deep pain if I had to part with it.
Dec 09 19:11:32 <Tu13es> right, not me
Dec 09 19:11:42 <Tu13es> anyone flashed via os x lately?
Dec 09 19:11:44 <ywwg> halley, czr: well I figured out something that works, finally, involving using hide_on_delete so I have time to shut down my app, then calling main_quit.  I think main_quit was being called too soon or something
Dec 09 19:11:55 <GeneralAntilles> Rhapsody is about the most kickass thing ever for a portable music collection.
Dec 09 19:12:14 <|R> Is anoyone aware of a solution (escrow system?) to help with buy/sell on forums ?
Dec 09 19:12:52 <Tu13es> i thought they were all shady
Dec 09 19:12:59 <Tu13es> when I used the forums it was just heatware and paypal
Dec 09 19:13:06 <Tu13es> well, AT forums
Dec 09 19:14:33 <|R> Is paypal giving offering an escrow service?
Dec 09 19:14:40 <Tu13es> no
Dec 09 19:14:54 <Tu13es> we essentially just used honesty and reputation
Dec 09 19:15:01 <Tu13es> i never bought or sold anything large though
Dec 09 19:15:19 <|R> yeah, wished it worked that way :|
Dec 09 19:15:39 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Dec 09 19:16:21 <|R> uhm escrow.com hehe
Dec 09 19:21:57 * Jaffa grumbles at being this >--< close to supporting `tablet-encode --gui'
Dec 09 19:27:57 <Tu13es> wow, I was just able to type in the name of my n800 via finger using the small keyboard
Dec 09 19:28:05 <Tu13es> definitely an improvement right there
Dec 09 19:38:48 <Tu13es> oh, huh, 2008 seems to support bluetooth gps's natively, nifty
Dec 09 19:41:09 <alterego> It even supports USB host mode natively if you can get it to work.
Dec 09 19:41:40 <hugolp> and it supports hot blondes if you send money to my bank account
Dec 09 19:42:28 <Tu13es> hm, says connected, but nothing showing up on my mc
Dec 09 19:42:29 <Tu13es> mac
Dec 09 19:43:13 <Myrtti> *sigh*
Dec 09 19:43:48 <Myrtti> I can't install pidgin msn support on my 770 it2007he2
Dec 09 19:43:52 <lopz> re
Dec 09 19:43:54 <GeneralAntilles> Why bother?
Dec 09 19:43:58 <GeneralAntilles> Just use jablet.net. ;)
Dec 09 19:44:25 <Tu13es> any suggestions for easiest way to pull out the memory card in the n800?
Dec 09 19:45:00 <hugolp> yes, who the hell thought about that brilliant desing?
Dec 09 19:45:20 <hugolp> the first time I inserted the card I thought I place it in the wrong place cause there was no way to take it out
Dec 09 19:45:37 <GeneralAntilles> Just pull it out?
Dec 09 19:45:41 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not sure I see the problem.
Dec 09 19:45:48 <Tu13es> it's not exactly easy to grasp
Dec 09 19:46:07 <GeneralAntilles> There's a lip that you can catch very easily.
Dec 09 19:46:33 <Tu13es> not on my card
Dec 09 19:46:34 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  I shouldnt need my girlfriend tweezers to take it out
Dec 09 19:46:48 <GeneralAntilles> You don't.
Dec 09 19:47:18 <GeneralAntilles> I've got a half-dozen SD cards here from various brands and they all have a lip
Dec 09 19:47:32 <hugolp> yep, your right actually
Dec 09 19:47:37 <hugolp> just tried now
Dec 09 19:47:42 <hugolp> didnt see it before
Dec 09 19:49:47 <GeneralAntilles> Look at it this way, if they used a more complicated mechanism, I can almost guarantee you we wouldn't have two slots. :)
Dec 09 19:50:56 <hugolp> Now that I have used the Nokia N800 for about 2 weeks, I dont understand why they havent include a phone on it
Dec 09 19:51:14 <hugolp> its not a money thing cause Im sure that with the hardware thats allredy there it shouldnt be a problem
Dec 09 19:51:21 <GeneralAntilles> Pfft
Dec 09 19:51:26 <GeneralAntilles> If you want a phone, buy a phone
Dec 09 19:51:32 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia makes plenty of decent phones.
Dec 09 19:51:39 <hugolp> Theres no phone with N800 functionalities
Dec 09 19:52:02 <hugolp> well, Iphone and Lg have something similar
Dec 09 19:52:25 <hugolp> I dont know why nokia doesnt jump into this segment
Dec 09 19:54:33 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  you wouldnt like your N800 being a phone also?
Dec 09 19:55:48 <Myrtti> N95 <3
Dec 09 19:57:59 <halley> Perhaps the N810's grandchild will incorporate 3G as well, but I'm happy without any phone hardware on the N810.  I don't like this form factor for mashing against my ear.
Dec 09 19:58:30 <hugolp> Myrtti:  N95 screen 320x240 not touch < N800 screen 800x480 touch
Dec 09 19:58:45 <Myrtti> so?
Dec 09 19:59:04 <Myrtti> I've got 770 and N95
Dec 09 20:01:47 <GeneralAntilles> No, hugolp.
Dec 09 20:01:51 <GeneralAntilles> I have a perfectly good phone
Dec 09 20:02:01 <GeneralAntilles> Let's see: battery life
Dec 09 20:02:03 <GeneralAntilles> cost
Dec 09 20:02:21 <GeneralAntilles> giant face tumor
Dec 09 20:02:39 * halley snickers.
Dec 09 20:02:48 <GeneralAntilles> Plus, there's a lot of places I don't want to take the N800.
Dec 09 20:02:52 <GeneralAntilles> Parties, for instance.
Dec 09 20:03:25 <GeneralAntilles> Getting shoved into a pool with my N800 is not something very high on my list of desirables.
Dec 09 20:04:33 <GeneralAntilles> Think of it this way, hugolp. Adding a cellular modem would mean MUCH greater costs, not necessarily because of hardware (but that factors in to as, as adding and integrating a cellular modem isn't cheap, especially with space as costly as it is in the NITs)
Dec 09 20:04:53 <GeneralAntilles> but you also have the hundreds of different national standards you have to go through
Dec 09 20:04:59 <GeneralAntilles> FCC and all its international counterparts
Dec 09 20:05:08 <halley> Hm, I'm having trouble getting icons to appear at the right size.  If I replace a 26x26 png file with a 60x60 png file, then restart the system, the artwork changes but it scales it to the old size.  What do I have to flush to get it to consider the new icon's size?
Dec 09 20:05:09 <GeneralAntilles> then you have to deal with carriers (at least in the US)
Dec 09 20:05:32 <GeneralAntilles> Basically, hugolp, it's a really bad idea
Dec 09 20:05:48 <GeneralAntilles> there's dozens of pages on why, exactly, it's a bad idea for the platform over at ITT.
Dec 09 20:06:11 <GeneralAntilles> and, seriously, do you really want a phone that barely runs for 4 hours?
Dec 09 20:06:21 <GeneralAntilles> I like leaving my phone on standby for long periods of time
Dec 09 20:06:25 <GeneralAntilles> if my N800 dies, so what
Dec 09 20:06:38 <GeneralAntilles> if my phone dies, that's a much bigger issue.
Dec 09 20:06:41 <halley> If you have 90% of the last screenful of chat, you're ranting.
Dec 09 20:06:53 <GeneralAntilles> Phones should be phones, internet tablets should be internet tablets.
Dec 09 20:07:11 <GeneralAntilles> Monologuing is what it's called, halley.
Dec 09 20:07:27 <halley> Babbling is what I say when my kid does it.
Dec 09 20:07:27 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles:  I dont
Dec 09 20:07:34 <l7_> hey, has anyone had problems reconnecting to their wifi router after a disconnect
Dec 09 20:07:34 <hugolp> I would like to have everything in one
Dec 09 20:07:44 <GeneralAntilles> There's no need to be an ass, halley. :)
Dec 09 20:08:13 <halley> Other questions are getting absorbed into the rant.  Mine for example.  :)
Dec 09 20:08:20 <l7_> i notice that i usually need to powercycle the router to get my n800 connected
Dec 09 20:08:38 <alterego> I'm sure there'll convergence devices in the future as we get better power technology. The internet tablet platform has only just begun.
Dec 09 20:08:44 <halley> Not here, l7_.
Dec 09 20:08:47 <GeneralAntilles> If somebody had an answer, they'd give it to you.
Dec 09 20:08:48 <dragorn> l7: sounds like a crap router :P
Dec 09 20:09:06 <l7_> dragorn: maybe... but my laptop has no problems with it
Dec 09 20:09:11 <hugolp> GeneralAntilles: so your saying the main problem for the N800 not being a phone is battery life?
Dec 09 20:09:16 <l7_> i'm wondering why the tablet does
Dec 09 20:09:33 <dragorn> l7: anything that means you have to reboot the router, I tend to blame on crap router firmware.  That should never be the case.
Dec 09 20:09:35 <GeneralAntilles> battery life, expense
Dec 09 20:10:36 <dragorn> Not to really feed the rant, but phones are as or more expensive, they're just subsidized by contracts w/ the phone company, try to buy an independent unlocked phone and you're looking at several hundred more
Dec 09 20:11:09 <alterego> No, I'm saying until it becomes practical to integrate these two seperate device types there's no point. Like how cameras have become a part of phones. Only as the technology made it actually practical.
Dec 09 20:11:36 <hugolp> alterego:  phone cameras are still not substitute for real ones
Dec 09 20:12:04 <kpel> alterego: phone cameras are good only for people like me, who know nothing of photography :-)
Dec 09 20:12:11 <hugolp> anyway, at some point it should be there, that with only one device you get everything
Dec 09 20:12:17 <alterego> VoIP isn't yet a substitute for phones :p
Dec 09 20:12:18 <kpel> knowledgable people complain about the noise in pictures taken by phones
Dec 09 20:12:40 <dragorn> Phone cams won't be good until they a) add real lenses and b) stop making the sensors half the size of postage stamps
Dec 09 20:12:58 <dragorn> 'a' is getting closer with the oil-distortion lenses.  B is still a problem.
Dec 09 20:13:07 <hugolp> kpel:  you dont have to be an expert to realize phone camera pictures are shit
Dec 09 20:13:15 <alterego> Tablets aren't good computers. Compared to a desktop. Or even a laptop for th matter.
Dec 09 20:13:23 <glass_> if you compare to 10y old digicams they're ok
Dec 09 20:13:30 <hugolp> unless you are so ugly you are happy with crappy pictures where you cant see your face properly :-P
Dec 09 20:13:42 <kpel> hugolp: even cameras like the one in N95 (5MP) are not that good although they have good lenses
Dec 09 20:13:57 <glass_> but in all honesty, phone cams have been good enough for me since n70
Dec 09 20:14:00 <glass_> for the use i give them
Dec 09 20:14:07 <dragorn> If you're seriously into it, you can tell the noise differences on a APS-C 1.6x crop sensor vs a full frame sensor in a SLR
Dec 09 20:14:09 <glass_> snapshots
Dec 09 20:14:10 <hugolp> although they have good lenses <- we could discuss on this
Dec 09 20:14:42 <hugolp> anyway, I havent try it but they say the n90 has good picture quality
Dec 09 20:14:43 <glass_> it's always what you compare with
Dec 09 20:15:05 <Tu13es> does skype have video chat yet?
Dec 09 20:15:33 <Tu13es> for the n800, that is
Dec 09 20:17:50 <Tu13es> anyone using mClock/
Dec 09 20:17:51 <Tu13es> ?
Dec 09 20:17:55 <Tu13es> or found a good fullscreen alarm clock?
Dec 09 20:19:19 <kpel> hugolp: the Carl Zeiss optics of the N95 are not good enough for you?
Dec 09 20:19:53 <glass_> carl zeis is just a name
Dec 09 20:19:57 <kpel> i would expect someone to complain about the sensor
Dec 09 20:20:13 <glass_> and the jpg routines and edge enhances and all that
Dec 09 20:20:14 <kpel> ferrari is just a name too
Dec 09 20:20:27 <glass_> which are all common complaints
Dec 09 20:20:33 <hugolp> kpel:  for what Ive seen im not impresed at all
Dec 09 20:20:40 <glass_> kpel: old ibizas had a porsche logo on them too
Dec 09 20:20:47 <glass_> i like n95's pic
Dec 09 20:20:49 <glass_> quality
Dec 09 20:20:51 <glass_> it's good enough
Dec 09 20:21:00 <hugolp> glass_:  good enough for a phone...
Dec 09 20:21:05 <hugolp> that says it all
Dec 09 20:21:06 <glass_> when compared to a pocket cam from few years ago
Dec 09 20:21:16 <glass_> it's good enough that i don't feel the need to carry a camera
Dec 09 20:21:36 <glass_> camera speed etc are more of a problem
Dec 09 20:22:30 <kpel> exactly
Dec 09 20:23:42 <glass_> focusing takes ages
Dec 09 20:23:45 <glass_> on n95
Dec 09 20:23:53 <kpel> true
Dec 09 20:33:21 <Atarii> so what's the best program for editting .doc files on 2007OS?
Dec 09 21:04:30 <zerojay> kulve: Haven't tried it yet. Trying it now.
Dec 09 21:07:31 <zerojay> kulve: Your link = 404
Dec 09 21:45:15 <endorphinum> ?
Dec 09 21:45:19 <acydlord> !
Dec 09 21:45:39 <endorphinum> :).... i am using miranda IM for the first time and do not understnd the IRC add on yet :)
Dec 09 21:45:57 <acydlord> ahh, i never used te irc addon for it
Dec 09 21:46:02 <endorphinum> or is it so, that at the moment there are soooo many people in the maemo room listed like to the right?
Dec 09 21:46:08 <acydlord> i just used it when i felt like running an aiml script
Dec 09 21:46:15 <endorphinum> for testing, right?
Dec 09 21:46:32 <acydlord> there are 247 people in here right now
Dec 09 21:46:39 <endorphinum> jesus.... so many!?
Dec 09 21:46:45 <acydlord> indeed
Dec 09 21:46:49 <endorphinum> inside the maemo group???
Dec 09 21:47:08 <endorphinum> i mean, specially the maemo channel?
Dec 09 21:47:12 <acydlord> most, i believe so
Dec 09 21:47:18 <acydlord> yeah
Dec 09 21:48:01 <endorphinum> crazy. i have posted my first post today and allready broke a barrier..... i developed a flash application and a gudy did not liked that :(
Dec 09 21:48:08 <endorphinum> so i hoped to get some help in here.
Dec 09 21:48:59 <acydlord> i wouldnt be much help with a flash app, but maybe one of the others would be when they start to stir
Dec 09 21:49:02 <pupnik> with flash? unlikely
Dec 09 21:49:20 <endorphinum> yeah, well it is not a flash application. I want to make a flash magazine for the maemo community.
Dec 09 21:49:28 <endorphinum> You wanna see the "dummy"?
Dec 09 21:49:47 <pupnik> sure
Dec 09 21:49:57 <alterego> Well, I got OTG host mode working.
Dec 09 21:49:59 <alterego> Kinda.
Dec 09 21:50:12 <pupnik> nice
Dec 09 21:50:13 <alterego> Doesn't want to recognise my card reader :/
Dec 09 21:50:19 <alterego> Works with my digital Camera fine.
Dec 09 21:50:24 <endorphinum> It will be a "lifestyle" ezine for the n-series owners.... http://www.cyberholic.de/atarashi/0001.html
Dec 09 21:50:38 <alterego> endorphinum, try it without flash :P
Dec 09 21:50:40 <pupnik> i'd like to get a usb WLAN stick going on 770 or n810 someday
Dec 09 21:51:00 <alterego> pupnik, that's funny. I'd like to get a USB ethernet adapter going :P
Dec 09 21:51:10 <endorphinum> aterego: the point is that i use the "page-flip" technology. If you visit the link, click on a corner and hold the button. then drag the page to the left.....
Dec 09 21:51:27 <alterego> Right.
Dec 09 21:51:41 <pupnik> that page turning stuff is really cool endorphinum
Dec 09 21:51:52 <alterego> Yeah .. That is pretty cool.
Dec 09 21:51:55 <endorphinum> thankx a lot. i hope that it also works on the n800
Dec 09 21:52:05 <alterego> Add bookmarks and I'll let you off :P
Dec 09 21:52:13 <pupnik> i've seen it used on another site.  probably pretty high cpu load
Dec 09 21:52:14 <endorphinum> could you test that out on your devices to see if you can "flip the pages that way" ?
Dec 09 21:52:59 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Dec 09 21:53:04 <GeneralAntilles> I want to tear the page out.
Dec 09 21:53:04 <alterego> It's too big.
Dec 09 21:53:09 <endorphinum> pupnik: i started a monthly scheduled ezine for my sports community this april. I have realized that the bigger the vectors, the more cpu the flash plugin snatches. You want to see it?
Dec 09 21:53:18 <endorphinum> altergo: what is too big?
Dec 09 21:53:27 <alterego> The whole thing.
Dec 09 21:53:48 <endorphinum> Then please try out the direct link to http://www.cyberholic.de/atarashi/0001.swf
Dec 09 21:54:01 <alterego> Okay .. It fits when I turn the toolbar off perfectly ..
Dec 09 21:54:04 <endorphinum> or do you mean by kilobytes?
Dec 09 21:54:32 <alterego> I meant screen estate.
Dec 09 21:54:40 <alterego> I have to disable the toolbar to see it all.
Dec 09 21:54:47 <pupnik> crashed opera+flash9 on Nokia 770
Dec 09 21:54:48 <alterego> Other than that, it actually works pretty well ..
Dec 09 21:54:53 <endorphinum> My vision is to make it "downloadable", so that you guys could download and read it whenever you want. The resolution is set to 800x480, like the fullscreen option.
Dec 09 21:55:03 <K`zan> Wow, played around with the map app installed on the n800 and compared to maemo mapper, it sucks badly.  Wow</pleasant_surprise when free app beats the hell out of a $150 one :-)>
Dec 09 21:55:19 <endorphinum> altergo: thanks a lot. That sounds like that i am going to invest some money, buy me a n800 and start the ezine by january.
Dec 09 21:55:21 <pupnik> yes everybody says maemo mapper wins
Dec 09 21:55:36 <GeneralAntilles> They don't even have a bugzilla component for it, K`zan.
Dec 09 21:55:37 <K`zan> pupnik: Amazing how much better it is.
Dec 09 21:55:41 <GeneralAntilles> It's pretty pathetic.
Dec 09 21:55:47 <K`zan> Sadly, true.
Dec 09 21:55:57 <K`zan> I'd keep using the Garmin before messing with map.
Dec 09 21:56:26 <K`zan> It seems to use the same maps as maemo mapper, or I can't find the maemo mapper ones.
Dec 09 21:56:47 <alterego> A PDF reader that worked like that would be f*cking awesome ..
Dec 09 21:56:48 <K`zan> I wouldn't even give them $1.49 for map :-).
Dec 09 21:57:05 <endorphinum> alterego: thats totally true!
Dec 09 21:57:19 <K`zan> Pardon the bubbling, but for the price I really expected map to be stellar compared to maemo :-).
Dec 09 21:57:24 <GeneralAntilles> endorphinum, pretty cool site.
Dec 09 21:57:33 <GeneralAntilles> It's just the other side of too slow, though.
Dec 09 21:57:38 <endorphinum> general: thanks. You mean the ezine?
Dec 09 21:57:46 <GeneralAntilles> Surprisingly smooth for the device, but just a touch slow for me.
Dec 09 21:57:48 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah.
Dec 09 21:58:10 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe reduce the resolution of the transition animation?
Dec 09 21:58:16 <endorphinum> too slow that it gets boring or would you say "na, endorphinum, go for it and make that ezine!" ;) ?
Dec 09 21:58:17 <alterego> It's okay until ~ the last 1/4 of the page turn. It slows down which is a little anooying.
Dec 09 21:58:18 <GeneralAntilles> Or just distribute as PDF.
Dec 09 21:58:27 <GeneralAntilles> Go for it.
Dec 09 21:58:43 <GeneralAntilles> If you can gather up enough content.
Dec 09 21:59:00 <alterego> I just wish there was a way you could do it without flash ..
Dec 09 21:59:12 <alterego> Maybe come up with a usable JScript front end.
Dec 09 21:59:34 <GeneralAntilles> pdf
Dec 09 21:59:36 <alterego> I'd also like to see a PDF reader do that ... :D
Dec 09 21:59:46 <endorphinum> Oh, that is no problem :) I am a freelancer in project development and my mind is full of weird idea. Just in case you want to know what i am talking about: the sports ezine i just started is by content totally different to what you have ever seen in printed sports magazines.... If youd like to, check it out at http://beta.endorphinum.de
Dec 09 21:59:47 <K`zan> How about a really dumb site with *info* rather than just flash and dazzle (no pun intended)?
Dec 09 21:59:51 <astro76> with good content, there is no reason to pretty it up with pointless animation.... although it is very cool looking
Dec 09 21:59:56 <endorphinum> .... Like all of my stuff everything is for free :)
Dec 09 22:00:11 <K`zan> Astro: Exactly.
Dec 09 22:00:34 <astro76> either way I'm sure everyone would like a PDF to download
Dec 09 22:00:42 <alterego> What's wrong with cool looking?
Dec 09 22:01:00 <alterego> I think it's pretty cool.
Dec 09 22:01:03 <endorphinum> astro: you are right, but i thought that it would be crazy to have that "flippage-feeling" on a technical device with a screen. And when i "met" the n800 on the web last week i just fell in love... now i'll only have to see how to get the 200 bucks together :(
Dec 09 22:01:07 <GeneralAntilles> How often would the issues come out?
Dec 09 22:01:14 <alterego> And I think it's usable. Though I think there should be a contents page and bookmarks.
Dec 09 22:01:18 <endorphinum> general: monthly
Dec 09 22:01:42 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, "This Month in maemo" thing actually sounds very awesome.
Dec 09 22:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> s/Ah/A
Dec 09 22:01:48 <alterego> Yeah
Dec 09 22:01:54 <endorphinum> alter: contents is there, bookmark will come. In the lower middle there will be a "menu" button where you can go to direct pages etc.
Dec 09 22:02:22 <alterego> endorphinum, I say go for it. But add a contents page, (which is easily accessible from any other page) and bookmarks! (Use cookies if you have to) :)
Dec 09 22:02:33 <alterego> Ah, cool.
Dec 09 22:02:35 <GeneralAntilles> It could make for a nice digest read for the noobs who does follow maemo.org and ITT daily.
Dec 09 22:03:06 <alterego> Can you embed videos into these pages?
Dec 09 22:03:17 <endorphinum> thats my aim... and also maybe a nice way for not-so-technical-maemo-fans like us to add stuff like "wallpapers" etc
Dec 09 22:03:23 <endorphinum> alter: yes
Dec 09 22:03:26 <alterego> Urm .. Just had a dumb moment ..
Dec 09 22:03:42 <astro76> endorphinum, check out what they are doing with Ubuntu Full Circle magazine monthly, sounds like the same type of thing you want to do for maemo
Dec 09 22:03:49 <alterego> I'm looking at the site on both my tablet and my laptop. I just tried to turn the page by touching my laptop screen O_O
Dec 09 22:03:58 <pupnik> so, looks like one store in UK has N810s
Dec 09 22:04:06 <alterego> pupnik, where?!?!>£%$%&£$
Dec 09 22:04:09 <alterego> :)
Dec 09 22:04:13 <endorphinum> If you check Beta Sway, my sports ezine, at the back there is a column called "music to exercise to". That are netalbels mp3 what means free to play and free to download. I thought i would implement that also inside it.
Dec 09 22:04:23 <pupnik> on ITT forums, N810 in europe thread
Dec 09 22:04:27 <alterego> pupnik, good sign though. It means they've made it to the UK ;)
Dec 09 22:04:49 <endorphinum> alter: lol
Dec 09 22:05:09 <GeneralAntilles> endorphinum, I'd definitely has PDF as an option for distribution, though.
Dec 09 22:05:15 <GeneralAntilles> s/has/have
Dec 09 22:05:35 <pupnik> a NX client would be a great project
Dec 09 22:05:43 <alterego> Yes, I agree with GeneralAntilles on that. PDF download aswell.
Dec 09 22:05:50 <endorphinum> technically that is no problem. I think i will offer both, but people will love the pageflip - i think :)
Dec 09 22:06:02 <Astro> K`zan, endorphinum: please complete correctly, you're hilighting me ;)
Dec 09 22:06:03 <alterego> endorphinum, I think it's really cool :)
Dec 09 22:06:07 <GeneralAntilles> There's always the misers that'll complain about anything. ;)
Dec 09 22:06:22 <endorphinum> *smile*
Dec 09 22:06:59 <GeneralAntilles> Need to round up some columnists.
Dec 09 22:07:04 <astro76> endorphinum, sure, an online browser as an alternative to a PDF download is a fine idea, it would be good to make the animation slightly less taxing on the tablet, looks great on pc though
Dec 09 22:07:11 <endorphinum> where can i download the ubuntu ezine? my atarashi ezine certainly will be like the same but have more "lifestyle" content
Dec 09 22:07:36 <astro76> endorphinum, http://fullcirclemagazine.org/
Dec 09 22:07:49 <endorphinum> astro: thnx!
Dec 09 22:07:53 * alterego contemplates making a PDF viewer with this "feel" to it.
Dec 09 22:08:07 <alterego> If it can work this well in flash. It should be easily implemented in C ..
Dec 09 22:08:24 <endorphinum> Never tried it, to tell you the truth.
Dec 09 22:08:48 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, target the magazine at an application, alterego? :D
Dec 09 22:09:11 <alterego> I just think we could do with a bit more eye candy ..
Dec 09 22:09:19 <endorphinum> Is the text inside my "dummy" ok to read by that size? At the moment i do not know if a 12 or 14 font typo is better.
Dec 09 22:09:22 <alterego> And to be honest. The inbuilt PDF reader isn't _that_ great.
Dec 09 22:09:26 <alterego> It's good, but not great.
Dec 09 22:09:28 <K`zan> More content, less "eye candy" please.
Dec 09 22:09:43 <alterego> endorphinum, it's a perfect size yeah.
Dec 09 22:09:59 <GeneralAntilles> 12 is fine on my eyes.
Dec 09 22:10:23 <endorphinum> alter: that sounds great as i certainly will need that space for interviews with software developers or "bigger stories"
Dec 09 22:11:19 <alterego> Ignore K`zan he's being a kill joy. Eye candy is good for quite a few reasons. It makes interfaces and applications feel more polished. Which makes the whole product better.
Dec 09 22:11:32 <endorphinum> The ubuntu ezine is superb! But due to my "background" and my aim, i am missing the more entertaining and lifestyle stuff. But i love the design and the way they use to work out with the text sizes. not bad!!!
Dec 09 22:11:35 <alterego> There is nothing wrong with UI refinement and eye candy. Though, there are limits to everything of course.
Dec 09 22:13:36 <endorphinum> As i mentioned, i do not own a n800. Would be great if you could answer me this question: i was thinking about a "new wallpapers" column and as the ezine is 800x480 the presented wallpapers will fit like it would already be installed on the background. My question is: can i make a simple link to a jpg file on the web if someone chooses a wallpaper? I mean, is it something like "save this jpg as background"?
Dec 09 22:14:14 <GeneralAntilles> They'd have to save it, then selected it as their background.
Dec 09 22:14:17 * alterego wonders if people would effectively beg for GSM+GPRS+EDGE+HSC functionality in the tablet if it was created by intel.
Dec 09 22:14:20 <alterego> I think not ..
Dec 09 22:14:25 <GeneralAntilles> But it's not particularly difficult, you just can't do it directly from the browser.
Dec 09 22:14:40 <endorphinum> general: thanks a lot!
Dec 09 22:14:46 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia == cellphones
Dec 09 22:14:51 * GeneralAntilles blabbers a bit and drools.
Dec 09 22:14:59 <endorphinum> alter: with all that stuff you are close to the n850 ;)
Dec 09 22:15:09 <GeneralAntilles> Let's hope not.
Dec 09 22:15:12 <endorphinum> yeah
Dec 09 22:15:41 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, my point exactly. If these devices were made by some other company. Hell, even if they were made by Sony Ericson I doubt people would be so whiney over "mobile phone" capability.
Dec 09 22:15:42 <acydlord> if the tablet was intel powered i wouldnt buy it
Dec 09 22:15:50 <alterego> What does that even mean? Do they just want GSM?
Dec 09 22:15:52 <acydlord> not a big fan of unfair business practices
Dec 09 22:15:59 <alterego> Or do they want EDGE, GPRS et al aswell ..
Dec 09 22:16:11 <acydlord> edge, ew
Dec 09 22:16:31 <GeneralAntilles> I wouldn't mind if they had a cellular maemo device, just as long Nokia still had another option without a cellular radio that was cheaper, better, stronger, and faster. ;)
Dec 09 22:16:42 <alterego> :)
Dec 09 22:17:00 <acydlord> well the openmoko is very similar to a cellular maemo device
Dec 09 22:17:02 <|R> with free daft punk samples? :P
Dec 09 22:17:08 <alterego> I'd rather leave my phone at home than my tablet ..
Dec 09 22:17:19 <acydlord> lol, funny as i am listening to daft punk right now
Dec 09 22:17:33 <alterego> openmoko isn't really like a cellular maemo device.
Dec 09 22:17:38 <GeneralAntilles> alterego, depends on where I'm going. :P
Dec 09 22:17:55 <alterego> It's like a open source based cellular device ..
Dec 09 22:18:06 <alterego> Maemo is an open source internet tablet based platform.
Dec 09 22:18:15 <alterego> They're different form factors really ..
Dec 09 22:18:20 <endorphinum> i luv maemo - though i have not worked on it by now :)
Dec 09 22:18:38 <acydlord> they are different form factors, but the sdk is very similar
Dec 09 22:18:57 <alterego> Does openmoko use scratchbox?
Dec 09 22:19:07 <alterego> You're basing two different platforms on the tools they use?
Dec 09 22:19:10 <alterego> O_o
Dec 09 22:19:33 <endorphinum> Ok guys, i will leave now. Wish you a pleasent day/night and thanks again for your support. I will inform you through this channel as soon as the first issue of "atarashi" goes online, what i think will be at the beginning of January 2008.
Dec 09 22:19:33 <alterego> Symbian uses GCC ..
Dec 09 22:19:52 <alterego> endorphinum, I look forward to reading it.
Dec 09 22:20:44 <endorphinum> alterego: thanks a lot. See ya.
Dec 09 22:21:51 <GeneralAntilles> Haha, alterego.
Dec 09 22:22:36 <alterego> I'm sorry, if I seem grouchy it's because I've not had much sleep the past couple of days :)
Dec 09 22:23:04 <alterego> My ISP sucks and I'm doing a bittorrent through an SSH tunnel.
Dec 09 22:25:42 <acydlord> sorry, wasnt paying attention to this chanel
Dec 09 22:26:31 <alterego> Well, you're here now. That's what counts.
Dec 09 22:26:33 <acydlord> i had just remembered hearing early on in the openmoko project that it was inspired by maemo
Dec 09 22:26:49 <alterego> Oh, so they're ripping us off now :P
Dec 09 22:27:04 <alterego> To be honest, I've not looked into openmoko.
Dec 09 22:27:07 <acydlord> and i know most of the software is easy to port between the 2
Dec 09 22:27:25 <alterego> I think openmoko will probably get killed by android ..
Dec 09 22:27:41 <alterego> Though, I don't know why ..
Dec 09 22:27:54 <alterego> Who'd want to code everything in Java? ..
Dec 09 22:28:25 <alterego> I guess all of those naive students google rip out of college ^_^
Dec 09 22:29:02 <acydlord> lol
Dec 09 22:30:13 <acydlord> i missed the local barcamp yesterday, i guess google phoenix was the sponsor for the food
Dec 09 22:30:50 <alterego> Google are evil.
Dec 09 22:30:54 <acydlord> indeed
Dec 09 22:31:12 <alterego> In 10 more years I predict there will be a google concentration camp in every major city on the planet.
Dec 09 22:31:20 <alterego> Full of Java and JScript coders.
Dec 09 22:31:28 <acydlord> i dont know how a company can claim their motto is do no evil when they keep logs of everything and index everyone's files for them
Dec 09 22:32:00 <acydlord> lol, no longer paying students fresh out of college, just ganking them
Dec 09 22:32:19 <halley> acydlord, "Ford:  Quality is Job One."
Dec 09 22:32:27 <alterego> They'll probably call it "work experience" or "aprenticeship" or something ..
Dec 09 22:32:31 <acydlord> lol, forgot about that one
Dec 09 22:32:37 <acydlord> lol
Dec 09 22:32:41 <alterego> But we'll all know they're concentration camps ..
Dec 09 22:32:49 <acydlord> i have a deal with ASU so i can get free work / interns
Dec 09 22:33:03 <Astro> acydlord: isn't this better than a company doing this while they obviously do evil?
Dec 09 22:33:09 <alterego> You want to work for nothing over summer? Good for you.
Dec 09 22:33:28 <acydlord> i mean i get interns from asu
Dec 09 22:33:32 <acydlord> free workers
Dec 09 22:33:46 <alterego> Oh, hahah.
Dec 09 22:34:01 <alterego> What's your business?
Dec 09 22:34:49 <acydlord> i was doing network security consulting
Dec 09 22:35:00 <acydlord> but i was using the interns for web design and development
Dec 09 22:35:14 <acydlord> cause i still had a few contracts from that that i didn't want to work on anymore
Dec 09 22:35:38 <alterego> Nice,
Dec 09 22:35:53 <alterego> I wish I could get free labour. Would make my life a lot easier.
Dec 09 22:36:55 <acydlord> just pester the local colleges
Dec 09 22:38:54 <alterego> Neah, I'm not that needy.
Dec 09 22:39:08 <alterego> I'd feel guilty too. I got paid loads when I was at college.
Dec 09 22:39:29 <pupnik> facebook.com is worth almost as much as ford motors
Dec 09 22:39:36 <pupnik> but am OT
Dec 09 22:39:48 <alterego> I'd like to build up a task force eventually. But I don't make enough money. And I don't have any one that I can trust for the sorts of things I need help doing ^_^
Dec 09 22:39:58 <alterego> (I've got very strict standards) :)
Dec 09 22:40:02 <acydlord> i see
Dec 09 22:41:06 <alterego> I'm also greedy. Even though I'm pretty well off and get paid, well, "enough". I could probably afford help every now-and-again.
Dec 09 22:41:25 <jubei> does anyone know how to fix networking for the sdk, so it will actually use dns
Dec 09 22:41:54 <alterego> jubei, you probably need to copy across some config files from your host install. (resolv.conf)
Dec 09 22:42:01 <alterego> maybe nsswitch.conf too ..
Dec 09 23:21:21 <|R> http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf
Dec 09 23:21:23 <|R> w-t-f
Dec 09 23:21:45 <|R> ogg proprietary?
Dec 09 23:28:50 <lopz> bye
Dec 09 23:29:29 <|R> Why is it that every big corp has one part smoking crack while the other is on LSD?
Dec 09 23:31:17 <GeneralAntilles> Haha, dunno, |R.
Dec 09 23:31:22 <GeneralAntilles> Sad thing, though, isn't it?
Dec 09 23:46:25 <|R> GeneralAntilles : indeed...
Dec 09 23:46:45 <|R> They miss a good free software advocate in the maemo group or something...
Dec 09 23:49:58 <GeneralAntilles> Why do people insist on using PDFs when it's absolutely unnecessary? :\
Dec 09 23:50:08 <|R> and flash...
Dec 09 23:50:22 <|R> And docs, and wmv, and ... uhm :)
Dec 09 23:50:25 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Dec 09 23:50:38 <GeneralAntilles> You can't even get usable text out of a PDF
Dec 09 23:50:44 <derf> halley: Around?
Dec 09 23:50:47 <GeneralAntilles> The encoding is always screwed up.
Dec 09 23:50:52 <|R> yeah :/
Dec 09 23:50:58 <|R> give me you latex source!
Dec 09 23:51:05 <|R> (oh wait, people use GUI ;)
Dec 09 23:51:12 <|R> s/you/your
Dec 09 23:51:17 <GeneralAntilles> Adobe freaking designed Acrobat to be contrary.
Dec 09 23:51:17 <derf> You can view LaTeX in a GUI.
Dec 09 23:51:23 <|R> derf : klyx? :)
Dec 09 23:51:34 <GeneralAntilles> "Oh, you want this in RTF?"
Dec 09 23:51:35 <derf> Or gvim.
Dec 09 23:51:40 <GeneralAntilles> "Let me hard-wrap everything for you."
Dec 09 23:51:41 <|R> haha ;)
Dec 09 23:52:37 <derf> It's better if you just think of a PDF as a bunch of TIFF files with really good compression.
Dec 09 23:53:00 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Dec 09 23:53:17 <|R> :)
Dec 09 23:54:35 <halley> derf, aye.
Dec 09 23:56:48 <derf> halley: Try the new gjiten_2.6-1maemo_armel.deb
Dec 09 23:57:03 <halley> Isn't that the same version number?
Dec 09 23:57:04 <derf> You should be able to close and reopen the radical window now.
Dec 09 23:57:07 * halley fetches...
Dec 09 23:57:15 <derf> Of course, this is not a release.
Dec 09 23:57:31 <halley> So I uninstall then install, right?
Dec 09 23:57:50 <derf> I think if you dpkg -i it'll do that for you.
Dec 09 23:58:28 <derf> I'll do a formal release with a nice chinook repository set up later.
Dec 09 23:58:56 <halley> I tried replacing the icon but it still draws the new 50x50 one at 26x26 (the old size).  Weird.
Dec 09 23:58:58 <derf> You also should be able to click on the spin buttons for stroke count, etc., without it incrementing two or three times now.
Dec 09 23:59:06 <halley> Trying now...
Dec 09 23:59:57 <derf> If you find any other issues, let me know.
Dec 10 00:00:59 <derf> I think the only other one I know of is that if you search for whole English words, it'll highlight every instance of the string in the entry, even if it's not a whole word.
Dec 10 00:01:03 <halley> Hrm, didn't see any change in the radical window behavior, checking if I did install wrong.
Dec 10 00:01:37 <halley> Oh, I did.  wget added a .1
Dec 10 00:02:11 <derf> (but that's an upstream bug... not that most of these others weren't, also)
Dec 10 00:03:56 <halley> It goes crazy trying to search each time I click ^ or v but it does work.
Dec 10 00:04:46 <derf> Well, I mean, that's what it's supposed to do.
Dec 10 00:05:13 <halley> Yeah... understood.  Maybe a "wait 250ms then start searching" but I know that's adding complexity.
Dec 10 00:05:39 <derf> You're supposed to enter a few radicals, etc., first.
Dec 10 00:05:47 <halley> Agreed.
Dec 10 00:05:48 <derf> Or, you know, get a faster processor.
Dec 10 00:05:57 <halley> Heh.
Dec 10 00:06:02 <derf> (battery life? what battery life?)
Dec 10 00:06:25 <halley> The search by strokes is just OVER the radicals, so it seems logical someone would dial that in first.
Dec 10 00:06:34 <halley> I'm just quibbling, this is awesome.
Dec 10 00:06:51 <halley> If I figure out the icon sizing anomaly, I'll give it to you.
Dec 10 00:06:58 <derf> Yeah, I didn't design the program.
Dec 10 00:07:51 <halley> Good deal.
Dec 10 00:25:43 <Species8472> hi
Dec 10 00:33:39 <l7> hey, is anyone finding the samba feature in os 2008 buggy?
Dec 10 00:33:53 <l7> it seems to work part of the time
Dec 10 00:34:06 <l7> then it breaks until i restore the original settings
Dec 10 00:34:11 <l7> then after a while it seems to break again
Dec 10 00:35:41 <halley> Seems to work until you adjust it.  Hm.
Dec 10 00:36:04 <GeneralAntilles> Figure out something consistently reproducible and file a bug. :)
Dec 10 00:38:34 <l7> halley: how do you adjust it?
Dec 10 00:38:44 <l7> it seems that there are no configuration settings for it
Dec 10 00:39:06 <l7> GeneralAntilles: only pattern i can see so far that it breaks after a while and restore all settings fixes it
Dec 10 00:39:23 <GeneralAntilles> Then file that.
Dec 10 00:39:39 <GeneralAntilles> Give some timeframe, and describe the "breaking".
Dec 10 00:40:18 <l7> breaking simply means that file manager does not see any samba shares anymore
Dec 10 00:40:37 <l7> and i think it breaks after about a day or two
Dec 10 00:40:46 <halley> http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
Dec 10 00:40:49 <l7> i'm not sure if clear all data fixes it
Dec 10 00:41:04 <l7> i think i can test that later, if it breaks again
Dec 10 00:41:08 <Species8472> I found a bug too.
Dec 10 00:41:37 <Species8472> It has a red colour.
Dec 10 00:41:50 <Species8472> And six legs.
Dec 10 00:42:06 <Species8472> Where can I file it GeneralAntilles?
Dec 10 00:42:36 <l7> very funny
Dec 10 00:42:40 <GeneralAntilles> l7, does usage influence it?
Dec 10 00:42:45 <l7> i was just wondering if anyone else had noticed
Dec 10 00:43:24 <Species8472> thanks l7, though 'ha' would be a more appropriate response
Dec 10 00:43:24 <l7> i've been using it only very lightly
Dec 10 00:44:16 <l7> maybe running other applications such as the browser, or ssh affect it
Dec 10 00:44:56 <l7> or it could be my flaky router, but that wouldn't explain why restoring settings would fix it
Dec 10 00:45:29 <GeneralAntilles> The network fileshares implementation is pretty flaky altogether right now.
Dec 10 00:45:36 <GeneralAntilles> UPnP is a lot worse than in OS2007.
Dec 10 00:46:23 <GeneralAntilles> Open a bug, and it should bring some sort of response.
Dec 10 00:46:39 <l7> does wizard mounter differ from the file manager in OS2008?
Dec 10 00:46:42 <l7> hrm, okay
Dec 10 00:47:14 <l7> anyhow it needs some more features, like the ability to refresh the share you are looking at w/o closing and reopening file manager
Dec 10 00:47:40 <GeneralAntilles> At the very least, even if they've already fixed it internally, it'll give us a marker to track changes.
Dec 10 00:47:57 <l7> maemo.org is slow again :\
Dec 10 00:48:03 <GeneralAntilles> l7, open some enhancement requests while you're at it. :P
Dec 10 00:48:16 <GeneralAntilles> bugzilla seems ok.
Dec 10 00:48:19 <l7> heh, i will after i can get this thing to load
Dec 10 00:48:27 <Species8472> hi unique311
Dec 10 00:48:42 <unique311> who u?
Dec 10 00:48:50 <GeneralAntilles> A troll, ignore him. ;)
Dec 10 00:48:51 <Species8472> I'm Species8472, and you?
Dec 10 00:49:14 <unique311> i am unique311
Dec 10 00:49:30 <unique311> but now i will ignore you, considering i've been told to do so.
Dec 10 00:49:37 <Species8472> GeneralAntilles why are you trying to set everyone against me calling me a troll every time?
Dec 10 00:49:54 <GeneralAntilles> Because I know you. :)
Dec 10 00:50:13 <Species8472> hi philipl
Dec 10 00:50:39 <Species8472> philipl, be sure to ignore GeneralAntilles, he's a troll
Dec 10 00:56:50 <Species8472> I have to go, bye GeneralAntilles
Dec 10 00:58:12 <l7> "Zarro Boogs found. "
Dec 10 00:58:14 <l7> cute.
Dec 10 00:58:27 <zerojay> l7: New to bugzilla, I assume?
Dec 10 00:58:57 <l7> zerojay: yeah
Dec 10 00:59:21 <l7> i think i saw an app for a bugzilla client on the IT
Dec 10 00:59:28 <zerojay> Mabugz.
Dec 10 01:00:09 <zerojay> I use it for my Bugzilla at work as well.
Dec 10 01:00:44 <GeneralAntilles> Any word on an OS2008 version?
Dec 10 01:01:00 <zerojay> I thought yerga already brought one out?
Dec 10 01:01:08 <GeneralAntilles> Hadn't noticed.
Dec 10 01:08:23 <lopz> re
Dec 10 01:41:12 <Tenkawa> hey all
Dec 10 01:41:37 * Tenkawa just flashed his 800 to 2008
Dec 10 01:41:47 <halley> Er, congrats?
Dec 10 01:41:59 <Tenkawa> hows it run so far for you all?
Dec 10 01:42:05 <Vulcanis> Amazingly.
Dec 10 01:42:08 <Vulcanis> youtube is bearable.
Dec 10 01:42:11 <Tenkawa> heheheh
Dec 10 01:42:12 <Vulcanis> Stuff still crashes, though.
Dec 10 01:42:21 <Vulcanis> Quetoo is fast.
Dec 10 01:42:25 <Tenkawa> I kinda look forward to messing with pidgin on it
Dec 10 01:42:30 <Vulcanis> Yeah.
Dec 10 01:42:36 <Tenkawa> did they do anything to help battery life?
Dec 10 01:42:50 <GeneralAntilles> Tenkawa: jablet.net
Dec 10 01:42:53 <Vulcanis> It doesn't make it any worse, but I don't think it made it much better, either
Dec 10 01:42:59 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, Tenkawa.
Dec 10 01:43:02 <Tenkawa> heh
Dec 10 01:43:03 <GeneralAntilles> The CPU throttles now
Dec 10 01:43:07 <Tenkawa> nice
Dec 10 01:43:13 <GeneralAntilles> so it jumps around between 165MHz and 400MHz.
Dec 10 01:43:40 <Tenkawa> thats handy
Dec 10 01:43:54 <Vulcanis> hablet better than pidgin?
Dec 10 01:43:56 <Vulcanis> ja*
Dec 10 01:44:18 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Dec 10 01:44:28 <GeneralAntilles> Uses built-in client, which is so much better.
Dec 10 01:44:31 <l7> so jablet is better than pidgin?
Dec 10 01:44:37 <GeneralAntilles> Yes.
Dec 10 01:44:45 <l7> oops, jinx i guess :)
Dec 10 01:45:00 <l7> i wonder if there's any privacy issues there
Dec 10 01:45:05 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Dec 10 01:45:09 <GeneralAntilles> If you're worried
Dec 10 01:45:17 <GeneralAntilles> go interrogate zerojay.
Dec 10 01:45:35 <l7> heh okay
Dec 10 01:45:47 * |R still going to use pidgin though... (security work deforms the mind right :P)
Dec 10 01:45:59 <l7> hah
Dec 10 01:46:13 <l7> well i haven't convinced many people to use OTR encryption anyhow
Dec 10 01:46:15 <|R> that and OTR
Dec 10 01:46:33 <|R> everyone i know use it now that's it's included basically everywhere
Dec 10 01:46:40 <|R> s/'s//
Dec 10 01:46:40 <infobot> |R meant: everyone i know use it now that it's included basically everywhere
Dec 10 01:47:17 <|R> I guess geeky people don't like added complexity, but i encourage the effort nonetheless :)
Dec 10 01:48:50 <GeneralAntilles> Adium's OTR is basically transparent.
Dec 10 01:48:59 <|R> yeah
Dec 10 01:49:53 <|R> we need OTR for SIP now ;)
Dec 10 01:51:27 <Robot101> there should be the pidgin-based backend for the built-in stuff available soon
Dec 10 01:51:43 <Robot101> aaaany day now
Dec 10 01:51:47 <|R> hehe
Dec 10 01:54:03 * halley can't believe there's an infobot that parses s/// for the lazy
Dec 10 01:57:15 * |R neither and actually finds this annoying... ;)
Dec 10 01:57:31 <|R> Robot101 : was this sarcastic or a real statement? weren't you working on telepathy? :)
Dec 10 01:58:13 <Robot101> a real statement. and yes, I was. I still am :)
Dec 10 01:58:26 * |R confused ;)
Dec 10 01:58:26 <Robot101> well, actually these days I seem to be trying to patch ejabberd for OLPC
Dec 10 01:58:34 <Robot101> but I don't know erlang so it's kinda hard
Dec 10 01:58:39 <|R> hehe :)
Dec 10 01:59:17 <l7> it will be nice to avoid installing pidgin
Dec 10 02:01:30 <l7> has anyone noticed that the tablet runs faster with less apps installed?
Dec 10 02:01:50 <l7> emptying out the built in flash seems to help a bit too
Dec 10 02:03:00 <l7> There was an error communicating with the server.
Dec 10 02:03:01 <l7> Details: None
Dec 10 02:03:21 <l7> weird, this is what it said when i signed with Psi
Dec 10 02:03:48 <zerojay> Say my name, say my name...
Dec 10 02:04:01 <l7> nvm, it seems to be working
Dec 10 02:04:19 <l7> i think Psi gave me that message becaues i was also signed into jabber with ichat
Dec 10 02:04:27 <l7> i guess it doesn't like multiple logins
Dec 10 02:04:57 <zerojay> l7: In terms of privacy, there's only one person with access to the Jabber server and that's me... and I don't give a shit about what you think of your mom's cooking or what Doug thinks of the Cowboys this year or whatever.
Dec 10 02:05:17 <zerojay> l7: Logs are kept, but only three of the four types.
Dec 10 02:05:51 <zerojay> l7: warn for server warnings (Java errors, mostly), err (again, mostly Java errors), info (mainly new users).
Dec 10 02:06:07 <zerojay> l7: Last one is debug, which is absolutely everything, including everyone's messages.
Dec 10 02:06:48 <l7> how long are the logs kept?
Dec 10 02:07:18 <zerojay> l7: However, due to the incredibly huge amount of traffic involved, even if I wanted to read everyone's messages, it's more or less impossible just because of the volume... so debug is never logged unless I specifically am trying to debug a problem in the server (like I did with this Y! issue I've been having).
Dec 10 02:07:49 <zerojay> I would say it grows by about 2MB/sec.
Dec 10 02:07:56 <zerojay> So.. yeah.. lol
Dec 10 02:08:07 <l7> are the account names and passwords on your server as well?
Dec 10 02:08:44 <halley> But the NSA could sneak a copy!
Dec 10 02:08:50 <zerojay> Yes. Account names are shown. Passwords are only stored encrypted.
Dec 10 02:09:51 <zerojay> The GUI allows me to change the password that the gateway will use to authenticate, but of course doesn't show what the original password was.. .and of course, does not allow me to change the password you use to connect to those services.
Dec 10 02:10:19 <zerojay> l7: The server software I run is called Openfire.
Dec 10 02:10:39 <zerojay> l7: If you've got any other questions, feel free to ask.
Dec 10 02:11:22 <l7> eh, i generally have faith in open source projects
Dec 10 02:11:28 <halley> Could someone PLEASE tell me how an app icon is *supposed* to be located so that it appears at the right scale in all the menus and sidebar?  No matter where I put files of whatever size, they show up wrong-sized somewhere.
Dec 10 02:11:32 <l7> but it never hurts to be paranoid :)
Dec 10 02:11:46 <zerojay> l7: Oh... the logs I believe are kept until I tell it to get rid of them, but since the three types of logs I keep show nothing along the lines of your conversations or whatever.. there's no privacy issues there.
Dec 10 02:12:34 <zerojay> l7: Debug, I generally just remove after I'm done needing it, though I sometimes get lazy and don't remove it after turning off debug logging (usually because I'm on a weak wifi at work and I'm already freaking out about some potential problem on the Jabber server...)
Dec 10 02:13:22 <l7> hrm, that is true
Dec 10 02:14:01 <l7> i guess the convenience factor is worth it, it's not like unencrypted IM is really that secure to begin with
Dec 10 02:14:35 <zerojay> I realize that I'm just another faceless name out there in the internet ether, so my word can't count for much, but I can tell you that I honestly just don't give a shit about what you do or say so long as you aren't trying to take the server down or cause any disruptions.
Dec 10 02:16:22 <zerojay> Most of the time, if I'm on IM, I'm joking around with friends or catching up with them or sending URLs or whatever. The only time I would say that people should need encrypted IM is when they're doing work... but if you are doing work that needs to remain private, well,  you've already failed when you routed it out publically anyways.
Dec 10 02:16:49 <halley> Geez, no doubt.
Dec 10 02:17:14 <zerojay> 319 accounts. Cool.
Dec 10 02:18:19 <zerojay> More people are using the tablets as a client than I expected.
Dec 10 02:18:31 <zerojay> Well, if you go by the idea that resource "Telepathy" = tablet, anyways.
Dec 10 02:20:18 <l7> hrm, jabber is a pretty cool protocol if it can do all these things
Dec 10 02:20:37 <l7> i wonder if it could mirror irc channels too
Dec 10 02:20:58 <zerojay> There is an IRC transport to allow you to use IRC through your Jabber account.
Dec 10 02:21:03 <zerojay> Yes, it works on the tablets.
Dec 10 02:21:09 <l7> wow nice
Dec 10 02:21:11 <zerojay> No, I cannot activate it.
Dec 10 02:21:22 <l7> oh
Dec 10 02:21:41 <l7> maybe another jabber client supports it
Dec 10 02:22:03 <zerojay> Unfortuately, because the uplink my provider uses specifically disallows IRC traffic, my provider, and thus I, to my dismay, have to as well.
Dec 10 02:22:14 <zerojay> Jabber clients don't support anything.
Dec 10 02:22:18 <zerojay> The Jabber servers do.
Dec 10 02:22:59 <zerojay> Believe me, not needing to have Xchat installed anymore would be nice. :)
Dec 10 02:23:10 <l7> hmm, are you running the jabber server from your house?
Dec 10 02:23:13 <zerojay> Though I wonder how slow it would go in a channel like this.
Dec 10 02:23:15 <zerojay> No.
Dec 10 02:23:58 <zerojay> Before I started Jablet, I ran the Openfire server on my home Linux box (same one I'm typing to you on now) to take a look at how Openfire worked, but before I went public, I paid for a hosting service.
Dec 10 02:24:27 <l7> ah cool
Dec 10 02:24:36 <l7> how long are you going to run it?
Dec 10 02:24:52 <l7> is it a non-profit type of experiment?
Dec 10 02:24:55 <zerojay> As long as I possibly can. I personally use it as well.
Dec 10 02:25:11 <zerojay> It's sort of a partnership between Texrat and I.
Dec 10 02:25:30 <zerojay> I just wanted to host the thing.. he wanted to handle the non-profit kind of stuff or whatever.
Dec 10 02:25:37 <zerojay> I don't know anything about that kind of stuff, to be honest.
Dec 10 02:25:59 <zerojay> We accept donations which go directly to hosting costs.
Dec 10 02:26:19 <zerojay> (If I could get the money out of the account anyways...)
Dec 10 02:26:44 <l7> ah, well it is cool that you are providing a free service to the community
Dec 10 02:26:49 <zerojay> He's got to set it up with a bank account before any sort of transaction could be made with the Paypal account... or some stupidity like that.
Dec 10 02:27:10 <l7> what is the homepage?
Dec 10 02:27:16 <zerojay> Well, I wanted an excuse to run a Jabber server. I've been using Jabber on and off for about 7 years now.
Dec 10 02:27:35 <zerojay> jabber.net, though there's not really much to look at for the moment.
Dec 10 02:27:44 <zerojay> Kind of started work on the Jabber server first.
Dec 10 02:27:48 <zerojay> er.
Dec 10 02:27:50 <zerojay> Wait.
Dec 10 02:27:52 <zerojay> Jablet.net
Dec 10 02:27:53 <zerojay> lol
Dec 10 02:28:02 <l7> heh
Dec 10 02:28:08 <l7> jabber.net looks kinda corporate
Dec 10 02:28:38 <zerojay> Anyways, I was getting kind of annoyed with people saying that you HAD to have PIdgin installed to get onto AIM and MSN and others.. so I decided to prove them wrong and show them the benefits.
Dec 10 02:28:44 <zerojay> And so Jablet was born.
Dec 10 02:28:50 <zerojay> Other ideas are happening.
Dec 10 02:29:09 <zerojay> Video Center database which works (waiting on Video Center to get a 2008 port though)
Dec 10 02:29:27 <zerojay> Basically, it's one click adding of podcasts/videocasts in formats known to work on the tablets.
Dec 10 02:29:42 <zerojay> Works the same way as Nokia's own service catalog.
Dec 10 02:29:50 <l7> hrm, that sounds pretty cool
Dec 10 02:30:06 <l7> the IT platform is looking better and better
Dec 10 02:30:18 <zerojay> I'm looking into also hosting a version of Mugshot's service as well, which also uses the same Openfire server I run.
Dec 10 02:31:12 <zerojay> To sort of give tablet users one place they can give others to show... sort of like "my life online.. what I've been doing recently" showing off, say... recent blog posts, songs played through last.fm, pics added to flickr, whatever else works through RSS.
Dec 10 02:31:46 <zerojay> (Mugshot doesn't quite give me all the services I want.)
Dec 10 02:32:46 <zerojay> Here's my Mugshot page: http://mugshot.org/person?who=Q6n0GbNzCVmQZf
Dec 10 02:32:50 <l7> mugshot.org?  that looks convenient
Dec 10 02:32:59 <zerojay> So... a bit of an idea of what I want to do for tablet users.
Dec 10 02:33:40 <zerojay> Maybe a bit more integration into the Jabber server perhaps.
Dec 10 02:34:31 <l7> hrm, mugshot sort of reminds me of nokia' MOSH
Dec 10 02:34:41 <l7> s/nokia'/nokia's
Dec 10 02:35:14 <zerojay> Mosh is more about collecting things and posting them for others to see.. Mugshot's kind of more about showing what you've been up to.
Dec 10 02:36:19 <l7>  mugs
Dec 10 02:36:43 <l7> whups
Dec 10 02:36:50 <zerojay> So the whole Jablet thing is kind of... along the lines of what I've always wanted to do for myself, but didn't have the motivation to do until others said they were interested as well. :P
Dec 10 02:44:01 <Vulcanis> GeneralAntilles: With jablet, since it is a second jabber account... is there a way to merge both "accounts", so I don't have to choose one account when I try to message them.
Dec 10 02:44:04 <Vulcanis> . = ?
Dec 10 02:44:44 <zerojay> Vulcanis: You already have a Jabber account somewhere else?
Dec 10 02:44:57 <Vulcanis> Yeah, googletalk
Dec 10 02:45:10 <zerojay> Googletalk's separate.
Dec 10 02:45:23 <Vulcanis> Thought that used jabber, too?
Dec 10 02:45:27 <zerojay> It does.
Dec 10 02:45:37 <zerojay> You can use it in two ways.
Dec 10 02:45:45 <Vulcanis> Then maybe I don't see what you're trying to say
Dec 10 02:45:56 <zerojay> One: Have one Jabber account, one Googletalk account on your tablet.
Dec 10 02:46:13 <zerojay> Two: Have one Jabber account and use your Googletalk account through the GTalk gateway on the Jablet server.
Dec 10 02:46:26 <Vulcanis> I guess I'll have to do that
Dec 10 02:46:33 <zerojay> Either way, you can add the same person on both if you choose and merge them together in the Contacts app.
Dec 10 02:46:38 <Vulcanis> because otherwise, it gives an annoying prompt every time I try ot message someone
Dec 10 02:47:02 <zerojay> Which prompt is that?
Dec 10 02:47:31 <Vulcanis> Sec.
Dec 10 02:47:50 <Vulcanis> From speed contacts, do not know if it is from anywhere else.
Dec 10 02:48:15 <Vulcanis> speed contacts > name > chat option in the menu > box pops up with my jabber account and my gtalk account, asking me to choose one
Dec 10 02:48:32 <Vulcanis> Well, the top one shows a gtalk chatbubble and the jabber lightbulb, so dunno.
Dec 10 02:48:34 <zerojay> Yeah, because you have that same person added on both accounts.
Dec 10 02:48:53 <Vulcanis> No, I do not.
Dec 10 02:48:57 <Vulcanis> They are not in my gtalk account
Dec 10 02:49:16 <Vulcanis> they only appear once under "all", too.
Dec 10 02:49:33 <zerojay> Well, it's because it's Jabber.. and since you have a Gtalk and a Jabber account... that would be why.
Dec 10 02:50:02 <zerojay> I think you won't get that prompt if you use the Gtalk gateway on my server.
Dec 10 02:50:29 <zerojay> Should happen anytime I try to message someone on Gtalk, right?
Dec 10 02:50:32 <zerojay> I'll try it.
Dec 10 02:50:43 <Vulcanis> I just added it, so it doesn't really matter anyway.
Dec 10 02:50:50 <Vulcanis> and I'll kill the gtalk on the n800.
Dec 10 02:50:51 <zerojay> ok
Dec 10 02:53:59 <Vulcanis> So how do I authorize the contacts on the tablet?
Dec 10 02:54:29 <zerojay> They should already be authorized, I believe.
Dec 10 02:54:47 <zerojay> Check your Contacts.
Dec 10 02:54:57 <Vulcanis> it says they are not, once I added them through psi and tried to chat through the n800 client
Dec 10 02:55:28 <zerojay> Are you on both at once?
Dec 10 02:55:44 <Vulcanis> Oh, actually.
Dec 10 02:55:48 <Vulcanis> I forgot to close gtalk on the laptop.
Dec 10 02:56:33 <zerojay> Generally speaking, if someone is on your contact list on Gtalk, they should already be authorized on the tablet as well.
Dec 10 02:56:48 <Vulcanis> Yeah, but this is going through the jablet server.
Dec 10 02:56:59 <Vulcanis> Still says unauthorized
Dec 10 02:57:06 <zerojay> Shouldn't change anything.
Dec 10 02:57:25 <Vulcanis> Restarting the tablet to see if that helps at all.
Dec 10 02:57:26 <zerojay> If they show up as authorized on Gtalk, they should on the server as well.
Dec 10 02:57:33 <Vulcanis> Yes, but for some reason, they are not.
Dec 10 02:57:41 <zerojay> Vulcanis: What's your Jablet account name? I'll check and see what the server thinks.
Dec 10 02:57:51 <Vulcanis> should be chaos@jablet.org
Dec 10 02:58:15 <Vulcanis> Its odd, though
Dec 10 02:58:19 <Vulcanis> Psi can use it
Dec 10 02:58:46 <zerojay> All your subscriptions are only one-way.
Dec 10 02:59:07 <Vulcanis> I'm new to this, you're going to need to explain thta.
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 10 02:59:57 2007