**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Dec 10 02:59:57 2007 Dec 10 03:00:08 When you add someone to your buddy list, you're asking them for authorization. If they say yes, you've got an authorization to them. If they never add YOU to their list, the authorization is only one way. Dec 10 03:00:20 Hm.. I'm starting to wonder if you're having the same issue I had. Dec 10 03:00:23 No, I have messaged them. Dec 10 03:00:34 and they have back. So I do not think it is that. Dec 10 03:00:48 You don't need to have authorization to message or receive messages. Dec 10 03:00:59 Authorization is for viewing status. Dec 10 03:01:06 Hm. Dec 10 03:01:15 Hang on a sec... I think you might have been bit by the same thing I have been.. wait a sec. Dec 10 03:01:28 Open up a contact that you are having this problem with. Dec 10 03:01:40 Go to Contacts, and look at their information. Dec 10 03:01:49 You should see their Gmail/AIM whatever listed there. Dec 10 03:02:20 checking Dec 10 03:02:47 Yeah. Dec 10 03:03:00 I think what is happening is that the tablet sometimes decides "all Gtalk and Jabber contacts should be contactable"... and other times, it sees the accounts as separate. Dec 10 03:03:29 Well, apparently, this is just showing @gmail.com Dec 10 03:03:35 so it may be using the old contact info Dec 10 03:03:43 https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=637 <-- Look at the icon before the person's Jabber accounts listed there.. do you see the same icon or do you see.... Dec 10 03:04:03 https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=638 <-- this dual icon? Dec 10 03:04:12 its a dual icon, as I had said before. Dec 10 03:04:19 Yeah, that's the problem. Dec 10 03:04:50 Copy the text in the field, create a new field for the Jabber account, paste it and hit ok... and you should get your authorizations. Dec 10 03:05:08 Ungh. Here goes 15 of them. Dec 10 03:05:29 At least you haven't had to to 60+ of them on an almost daily basis like I have. Dec 10 03:05:30 :) Dec 10 03:05:46 I believe this is a bug on the tablet if Gtalk's been added.. I'm not sure. Dec 10 03:05:52 Heh. Dec 10 03:05:56 gtalk _was_ added Dec 10 03:05:58 I killed it Dec 10 03:06:04 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2421 Dec 10 03:07:02 You've got me interested now.. wonder what my contacts show on the server. Dec 10 03:07:24 Fuck... it says to also. Dec 10 03:07:59 Vulcanis: I think I can do it for you. Dec 10 03:08:16 Vulcanis: Don't do anything. I'll change it to both on the server and we'll see what it does. Dec 10 03:08:27 (If there's no need to go pasting over and over again...) Dec 10 03:08:32 Yeah. Dec 10 03:09:03 Psi 5 Trading company Dec 10 03:13:01 Bah, apparently, because I had the gtalk account before, anyone with the same name stayed associated with that Dec 10 03:13:24 Because some of the gtalk contacts I did not have there, are at something/gtalk... but the ones that don't work are still @gmail.com Dec 10 03:13:57 To be on the safe side, I'll set them to have auth both ways on the server. Dec 10 03:14:05 Your contacts. Dec 10 03:14:14 Thanks. Dec 10 03:14:33 Seems that all my MSN contacts are just "To". Dec 10 03:17:29 bye Dec 10 03:19:15 yeah, turns out there were multiple contacts under 'all' Dec 10 03:19:21 Thanks, though. Dec 10 03:22:57 np Dec 10 04:14:50 [Slashdot: Your Rights Online] Nokia Claims Ogg Format is "Proprietary" - Dec 10 04:14:51 http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotYourRightsOnline/~3/197722474/article.pl Dec 10 04:16:12 Is it actually even an official Nokia stance? Dec 10 04:16:19 It seems rather blown out of proportion. Dec 10 04:16:39 http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf Dec 10 04:17:19 <|R> well, that's what the pdf says Dec 10 04:18:06 "Any DRM-incompatible video-related mechanism is a non-starter with the content industry (Hollywood)" Dec 10 04:18:22 that's fairly indisputable i guess Dec 10 04:18:57 <|R> That good old Symbian mentality? ;) Dec 10 04:19:35 There's a smilie in that pdf Dec 10 04:19:44 How utterly unprofessional. Dec 10 04:19:50 Anything beyond that, including a W3C-lead standardization of a ?free? codec, or the Dec 10 04:19:53 active endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg, ?, by W3C, is, in our Dec 10 04:19:55 opinion, not helpful for the co-existence of the two ecosystems (web and video), and Dec 10 04:19:58 therefore not our choice. Dec 10 04:20:24 <|R> can we fire that lawyer? Dec 10 04:20:26 <|R> :P Dec 10 04:22:00 "All these alternatives are, in our opinion, preferable over the recommendation of the Dec 10 04:22:00 Ogg technologies, based almost exclusively on the current perception of them being Dec 10 04:22:01 free." Dec 10 04:22:15 Stupid PDFs and their stupid hard-wrapping. Dec 10 04:22:20 I presonally do not buy any drm content (excepting DVDs which are trivially reproduceable now) Dec 10 04:22:44 <|R> i don't buy content, i live content... Dec 10 04:22:55 But for companies to support a standard i understand why they would insist on DRM. Dec 10 04:22:59 <|R> (shows for example, i refuse to pay for anything tangible) Dec 10 04:24:02 Should ogg have had a mechanism for supporting DRM content? Dec 10 04:24:18 <|R> if it's a flag like the original pdf security, that you can ignore, sure ;) Dec 10 04:25:40 I guess i disagree with nokia. Web standards as defined by W3C should be open (and ogg is) Dec 10 04:25:57 And if any particular company wants to brew their own soup, they can do-so. Dec 10 04:27:32 ^ Dec 10 04:33:51 But nokia has a valid business case, that standards for DRM-enabled content will allow manufacturers to better support the online offerings of content providers Dec 10 04:34:26 <|R> drm in cell phones is going to mean TPM pretty fast... Dec 10 04:47:02 exit Dec 10 05:05:37 Hello Dec 10 05:06:31 I was wondering if anyone might be kind enough to help me install minimo on OS 2006. Dec 10 05:08:45 Is anyone here? Dec 10 05:09:08 sorry, I failed in my attempt to install minimo Dec 10 05:10:03 it's the middle of the night on a Sunday in the western hemisphere, I'd expect chat to be quiet Dec 10 05:10:20 Yes, it always is. Dec 10 05:11:00 Its a tad frustrating it leaves me wondering what the hell a "X11-common" is. :{ Dec 10 05:13:07 have you searched the wiki? Dec 10 05:13:20 foo, I fail to find a pretty world clock for gnome Dec 10 05:13:24 A search on Maemo.Org returns nil. Dec 10 05:15:43 So, what kind of tablet do you have? Dec 10 05:16:56 770 Dec 10 05:18:00 http://www.deal-times.com/General-Talk/Nokia-770-Internet-Tablet/Mini-FireFox-mozilla-based-MINIMO-browser-for-Nokia-770.html Dec 10 05:18:05 this guy claims to have done it Dec 10 05:18:13 but I don't like the idea of downloading his packages Dec 10 05:18:16 sketchy Dec 10 05:18:22 he should have just linked Dec 10 05:18:40 also, they may be stale and not work right in the current OS, even if they aren't haxed with Dec 10 05:19:36 Got it. Dec 10 05:19:41 Thanks. Dec 10 05:20:07 I have the 770 too. Finding rs-mmc cards is a pain in the ass.. :S Dec 10 05:22:14 I got a good deal Dec 10 05:22:25 I forget where Dec 10 05:24:18 $22 seems to get you 1GB Dec 10 05:24:27 they are also sold as "MMC mobile" Dec 10 05:24:37 I guess rs-mmc didn't roll off the tongue Dec 10 05:24:59 the two slots for the N800 is nice Dec 10 05:24:59 Yes, doesn't have that same ring too it. Dec 10 05:25:10 since I boot from the MMC, I can't swap it Dec 10 05:25:42 are you running the default os? Dec 10 05:26:06 I'm running the latest from Nokia Dec 10 05:26:12 not hacker edition Dec 10 05:26:31 but I followed the instructions on the wiki to boot from a larger partition on the MMC card Dec 10 05:27:02 it's a little faster and even a little more stable, but that might be from bug fixes Dec 10 05:27:51 the only thing that's been crashing my 770 any more is the cold Dec 10 05:27:58 hates being cold Dec 10 05:28:27 Cool, I will probably do that once I get a card. Dec 10 05:28:51 BTW, you were right not to trust that guys page. I get incompatible package with all the installs. Dec 10 05:29:13 well, it's old Dec 10 05:29:29 so I'm not surprised Dec 10 05:29:52 Sorry to ask so many questions, but do you know how to get flash working in the browser? Dec 10 05:35:59 Spastic: works here Dec 10 05:36:18 if you mean flash9 support, there is a threat on ITT with howto Dec 10 05:36:24 i can't confirm that tho Dec 10 05:36:59 Sorry, but what is ITT? Dec 10 05:37:38 is it possible for a nokia 770 to operate as a display for a computer? Dec 10 05:37:55 aside from remote desktop Dec 10 05:38:03 Not that I know of. Dec 10 06:02:15 Internet tablet talk Dec 10 06:02:28 forums Dec 10 06:08:16 zerojay: yeah, I removed it as I "announced" it offically.. Dec 10 06:23:40 Does anyone know is there some kind of issue with the 2006 repositories? Dec 10 06:24:55 Im on a fresh reflash of 2006 on a 770, and im getting all kins of errors trying to install anything off the maemo website. Dec 10 06:25:21 Ravious, looks like maemo.org is down again Dec 10 06:25:37 err maybe not Dec 10 06:25:58 Hmm Dec 10 06:26:36 I'm getting all kinds of dependency errors Dec 10 06:30:11 Hmm.. Oh well.. Guess im reflashing back to HE2007 Dec 10 06:30:31 lol Dec 10 06:56:34 hi. I wish to create an debian package. For this I need the ar command, but my openwrt router does not have one. do you know how to go around the problem? Dec 10 06:58:16 eg. do this without 'ar' ar -r your-package-name.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz Dec 10 06:59:20 sounds like you are doing a debian package with a hard way ;) Dec 10 07:00:51 kulve: might be, but I wish to create the package on the fly based on the information set to a web page Dec 10 07:01:28 this used to work on my linux 'server' but the hd crashed and now I'm trying to install it to the router Dec 10 07:04:31 actually, what would be more easy way to do this? Dec 10 07:11:35 any list admin there ? i have been unsubscibe from maemo-user yesterday and cannot subscribe again (no mail asking me to confirm my request) Dec 10 07:12:45 oil: the real way of building debs is "dpkg-buildpackage", but I assumed you were doing your things in some limited environment.. Dec 10 07:13:27 kulve: yes. I guess I need to change the building part to another device. Dec 10 07:13:31 thanks anyway :) Dec 10 07:13:44 oil: do it on the nokia itself Dec 10 07:13:54 pupnik_: About the Nokia position paper, IMO it tells you something already of the attitude when they are constantly saying '"free"'... Also if I were a musician that released music under open formats, I'd be quite miffed at Nokia for dissing my stuff as inferior just by that. Dec 10 07:14:22 keesj: I'd like to have only one server online. therefore the router would be the best option Dec 10 07:14:40 yes Dec 10 07:14:43 http://pupnik.de/brainmlt.jpg Dec 10 07:14:44 i did that in truespace on a 64MB pc Dec 10 07:15:27 oil how does that relate to you question? if you are searching for trouble deliberately your on your onw Dec 10 07:15:50 keesj: why would he be on his own? :) Dec 10 07:16:11 oil: can't you get ar to the router? Dec 10 07:16:24 it shouldn't be a big binary..? Dec 10 07:16:36 keesj: well, yes an no. would be best place to have this functionality Dec 10 07:16:37 there must be a sh implementation of ar somewhere , it like zip right? Dec 10 07:17:03 is it your own router btw? Dec 10 07:17:12 kulve: no, can not find. it's asus wl-700ge running kamikaze 7.09.. I'll keep looking Dec 10 07:18:01 keesj: jes. that's what I'm looking for. if it would be possible to 'simulate' ar with a script or so Dec 10 08:19:42 morning Dec 10 08:21:33 anyone had a chance to play with maemo fuse? Dec 10 08:26:04 hey Dec 10 08:26:27 anyone know of a chinook vim deb? Dec 10 09:28:53 bon dia / good morning Dec 10 10:16:08 morning Dec 10 10:16:38 hey all Dec 10 10:32:34 Today, I'm gonna build some crazy modules for my hostified N800 Dec 10 10:33:35 What makes the modules crazy? Dec 10 10:33:42 Just me, Dec 10 10:33:45 I make things crazy Dec 10 10:34:04 inz, wet & wild pointers? Dec 10 10:34:05 Firstly I'm gonna remove that pesky r&d mode .. Dec 10 10:34:30 "kernel modules all gone wild" Dec 10 10:34:48 Sounds like a normal day :P Dec 10 10:34:53 * czr nods Dec 10 10:35:16 I'm trying to solber up mostly. Need to get some stuff for the trip today Dec 10 10:35:31 * czr plans to run away from maemo as far as possible, if not further Dec 10 10:36:03 I managed to plug my digital camera into the N800, worked "almost" perfectly. It worked but I got a bunch of error messages in th process. Then the device was mounted and the file manager popped open. Tried plugging in a dumb mass storage device. Which I presumed the camera was in that mode, and it didn't work :( Dec 10 10:36:34 ‌Being able to use my 5in1 card reader on the N810 (when I get it). Will be super handy. Dec 10 10:41:59 super handy = 6 fingers? Dec 10 10:42:14 like the hand-signs they have on the doors of the restaurant train cars in finland Dec 10 10:42:20 Hah Dec 10 10:42:41 it means (in code) "yes we serve alcohol, and if you actually counted the number of fingers in the sign, you need more of it" Dec 10 10:43:33 Hahah Dec 10 10:43:59 So, you leave tomorrow? Dec 10 10:44:20 yeah. at around 4 AM Dec 10 10:44:40 Eesh Dec 10 10:46:33 What's this OMAP2420_SNAPSHOT me wonders. Dec 10 10:47:07 -> goes shopping Dec 10 10:47:14 See you later. Dec 10 10:47:31 Hi ! Dec 10 10:47:39 Hola Dec 10 10:47:56 "CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA_RX44" ? Dec 10 10:48:02 Interesting .. Dec 10 10:48:29 MACH ... ? Dec 10 10:48:51 Actually, that makes sense. The kernel would be for both the N800 and the N810 Dec 10 10:50:07 i'm surprising if it s a mach kernel :) Dec 10 10:50:29 It's just a tag for "Machine" :P Dec 10 10:56:00 ah ... arf Dec 10 10:58:15 Interwesting. They already have USB->Ethernet support for RTL8150 enabled. Dec 10 11:00:01 usbnet? Dec 10 11:00:12 No, USB to ethernet adapters. Dec 10 11:00:31 Allows you to connect to an Ethernet RJ45 based 10/100/1000 network. Dec 10 11:00:48 I've been toying with buying one for the tablet. Dec 10 11:01:08 ah ok Dec 10 11:01:15 nice idrea Dec 10 11:01:38 but how do zou get 1000MBit on a usb cable_ Dec 10 11:02:03 Good question ;) Dec 10 11:02:08 Maybe it's USB3.0 capable ;) Dec 10 11:02:24 USB3.0 is super fast .. Dec 10 11:03:00 hum ... i hope it s doesn't consum your cpu super fast too Dec 10 11:03:07 usb2.0 is horrible for that Dec 10 11:03:23 Can't say I've noticed. Dec 10 11:03:27 maybe they use an usb hub to use 2 of them ;) Dec 10 11:03:47 2x480 is near to 1000 Dec 10 11:04:14 the controll info is send over bluetooth Dec 10 11:04:19 if u use a hub u divide the bus :) Dec 10 11:04:26 speed Dec 10 11:04:59 pssst Dec 10 11:05:10 Two controllers. Dec 10 11:05:13 dont desroz the plans Dec 10 11:05:58 argh Dec 10 11:06:31 desroz? Dec 10 11:06:33 mz keyboard thinks it has an english layout Dec 10 11:06:37 Is that some new kids cartoon or something? Dec 10 11:06:59 Hmm, seems cold today. Dec 10 11:07:31 Gonna work on encrypted filesystem support on my N800 today, Dec 10 11:07:35 destrooy Dec 10 11:07:37 does the n810 has different hardware keyboard layout ? Dec 10 11:07:41 -o Dec 10 11:08:11 my bt keyboard gets really mad with the n800 Dec 10 11:08:13 i still see the same on different store Dec 10 11:08:35 The images are all qwerty from what I've seen. Though there are different mappings. Dec 10 11:08:47 maybe thez use the same photo from the nokia hp_ Dec 10 11:08:56 There are different mappings for US/UK/EUR I believe too .. Dec 10 11:09:37 Moduals builded Dec 10 11:10:49 snifff ... i hope it s still a qwerty in france Dec 10 11:11:00 Why wouldn't it be? Dec 10 11:11:17 I'm just saying it'll have a EURO instead of USD or GBP symbol :) Dec 10 11:11:36 ah ok :) i ve understand :) Dec 10 11:11:37 but azerty is no fun Dec 10 11:11:44 i ven't understood :) Dec 10 11:15:28 My tablet doesn't seem so cool without the R&D messages on boot :/ Dec 10 11:15:52 :)' Dec 10 11:16:24 alterego > is it you ? : [Bug Tracker]: PyGTKEditor : Severity Feature : Would it be possible to add ruby syntax highlighting to PyGTKEditor? Thanks Dec 10 11:16:25 :) Dec 10 11:16:36 God no. Dec 10 11:16:38 :) Dec 10 11:16:46 lol Dec 10 11:16:50 I wonder who that was though. It's a good idea. Dec 10 11:17:20 hum ... i think i should leave my custom syntax highlighter ... Dec 10 11:17:27 I'd actually use it if it had ruby syntax highlighting ;) Dec 10 11:17:29 to use GtkSourceView Dec 10 11:17:47 but ... 770 users will not be happy ... Dec 10 11:18:08 I could actually write one _very_ easily in Ruby that used the standard text view. Dec 10 11:18:13 alterego > is the ruby syntax is complex to parse ? Dec 10 11:18:25 There's a neat ruby library that does syntax highlighting for many different languages/filetypes. Dec 10 11:18:40 Not really, Dec 10 11:18:50 It's mainly just highlighting keywords and string literals. Dec 10 11:19:11 alterego> hum ... where can i find information about that ? Dec 10 11:19:29 Having auto indententation is a little bit trickier. But that should be easy to do if you're familiar with the different code block types. Dec 10 11:19:51 Khertan, it's used by pastie.caboo.se I believe. Dec 10 11:19:56 i ven't autoindent yet in pygtk ... Dec 10 11:19:57 There's a few out there. Dec 10 11:20:21 I know people bitch about it. But I could really do with emacs on the device .. Dec 10 11:20:35 Or a decent powerful text editor. Dec 10 11:20:44 :) Dec 10 11:20:44 Even gedit would do .. Dec 10 11:20:54 gedit is good text editor ... Dec 10 11:20:59 I'm suprised no-one has ported it yet. Dec 10 11:21:13 Maybe I'll do that instead ;) Dec 10 11:21:14 hum ... Dec 10 11:21:19 yes me too ... Dec 10 11:21:26 maybe we should do that :) Dec 10 11:21:53 pygtkeditor was mainly my first python programm Dec 10 11:21:59 just to learn python ;) Dec 10 11:22:21 I tell you what. I'll check out the gedit source and see what kind of a state it's in. What dependencies it requires etc. Dec 10 11:22:58 Well it looks like a lot of people like it :) good job Dec 10 11:23:10 thanks Dec 10 11:23:55 as i use it my self onboard ... i ve my own idea about how an onboard editor should be :) Dec 10 11:24:59 i ve added recently c/c++ syntax highlight and i was sure than someone ll ask for an other language :) Dec 10 11:26:38 and it s show that a least one or more people are interested ... Dec 10 11:26:57 Khertan, i want to see A syntac highlightning in your editor Dec 10 11:27:30 syntac ... don t know this language :) Dec 10 11:27:41 A ... Dec 10 11:27:44 syntax Dec 10 11:27:47 don't know too Dec 10 11:27:52 :) Dec 10 11:27:59 yeah the A python bindings :D Dec 10 11:28:18 A ... what is it ? asm ? Dec 10 11:28:25 never heard of it too ;) Dec 10 11:28:34 lol Dec 10 11:28:59 befor D there was C, before c there was B, before B there was A Dec 10 11:29:01 i know B ... C ... D ... Dec 10 11:29:20 or what about brainfuck? Dec 10 11:29:42 i now please .... not that Dec 10 11:29:49 oh no ... please not that Dec 10 11:30:11 maybe goto++ ... but not brainfuck Dec 10 11:30:49 http://gpp.niacland.net/index.html.en Dec 10 11:30:52 bf++? Dec 10 11:32:01 Chaussette Test Dec 10 11:32:01 ret=Test@Tricoter(«localhost» *(1256)) Dec 10 11:32:01 GOTOPRINT() Dec 10 11:32:01 ret=Test@Vider(texte) Dec 10 11:32:01 GOTOPRINT() Dec 10 11:32:01 GOTOPRINTDUTEXTE() ; &texte Dec 10 11:32:38 i like the instruction GOTOCHEPA() ... Dec 10 11:32:50 any maemo-user list admin here ? Dec 10 11:32:57 in english this could be translate by GOTODONTKNOW() Dec 10 11:33:20 GOTOCHEPA() %10 ... (there is 10% of chance of a jump) Dec 10 11:34:48 Hah Dec 10 11:36:54 chepa=corsica? Dec 10 11:37:42 it remembers me to java2k Dec 10 11:37:56 chepa ... a mal formed french sentence to say : " ne sais pas " ... " i don't know " Dec 10 11:38:06 in argo ... "chais pas ... !" Dec 10 11:38:07 :) Dec 10 11:38:14 there is a 96% that the solution is right Dec 10 11:38:42 wb playya_ Dec 10 11:38:53 Heh Dec 10 11:39:19 i thought my granny unplugged the power supply to insert the vacuumer Dec 10 11:39:39 ... lol ... Dec 10 11:39:50 i ll come back .. eating time :) Dec 10 11:41:14 hehe Dec 10 11:44:36 anyone had success using the (device program) discount code on shop.nokia.de? Dec 10 11:47:11 Try on Friday jott Dec 10 11:49:24 alterego: thanks. just wondering if it was just me :). Dec 10 11:49:50 Well, Nokia said we should be able to buy on Friday .. So .. Dec 10 11:49:57 Don't expect _anything_ to work until then ;) Dec 10 11:50:15 not long, yay! Dec 10 11:50:16 yes.. no problem.. i can wait :) Dec 10 11:50:20 :) Dec 10 11:50:41 If all goes to their master plan lardman ;) I'm still not convinced the N810 really exists. Dec 10 11:51:03 :) Dec 10 11:51:18 hopefully i get one too Dec 10 11:52:08 how could i say my chief that os2008 on n800 isnt the same like n810? Dec 10 11:58:21 * alterego fights with some dependency hell. Dec 10 12:01:25 Is there some nice wasy way to give input to program depending on what the program outputs? Dec 10 12:01:40 wplayya: it's different hardware... Dec 10 12:02:31 O_o Dec 10 12:02:41 VRe, can you give a better example of what you want? Dec 10 12:03:09 alterego: program asks password, I give password.. Dec 10 12:03:23 VRe, there's a password dialog in the hildon widget set. Dec 10 12:03:25 Use that. Dec 10 12:04:02 alterego: No I want to feed the program according (command line) its output Dec 10 12:04:21 What? Dec 10 12:04:38 echo "password" | ./program ? Dec 10 12:05:13 that is stateless.. it might ask something else than just password. And that still doesn't work with all the programs Dec 10 12:05:29 You're not giving very good examples. Dec 10 12:06:02 What do you mean "all the programs"? Dec 10 12:06:06 programs says aa, I have to say bb or the program might say cc and then I need to say dd Dec 10 12:06:06 What programs? Dec 10 12:06:17 Use expect Dec 10 12:06:41 in general, I suppose somekind of testing automation prog could do it Dec 10 12:06:47 expect Dec 10 12:07:26 Though, I have no idea why you're asking here for this information .. Dec 10 12:07:43 Hell World :) Dec 10 12:07:48 Hello World :) Dec 10 12:08:07 I think you were right the first time :P Dec 10 12:08:08 alterego: Hey, not everything on the tablet is gui Dec 10 12:08:35 VRe, sure. but don't you think it would have been more appropriate to ask in #linux or #unix or something? Dec 10 12:08:45 What you're trying to do has nothing to do with the tablet. Dec 10 12:08:49 Not specifically .. Dec 10 12:08:58 close enough Dec 10 12:09:04 Whatever. Dec 10 12:09:12 Use expect, next time ask somewhere else. Dec 10 12:10:19 yes daddy Dec 10 12:10:43 A thank you for answering your question would have been nicer. Dec 10 12:10:57 Your sarcasm isn't exactly productive. Dec 10 12:10:58 yes, thank you for the answer. not for lecture Dec 10 12:12:00 * alterego decides to add VRe to his help blacklist. Dec 10 12:12:40 I actually didn't have one before. Dec 10 12:30:30 re Dec 10 12:31:23 * Jaffa spots in the scrollback that the /. story on Ogg & Nokia has been mentioned already (at 04:20 UTC): http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/09/2045200 Dec 10 12:43:42 Jaffa: so nokia is against ogg because there is no drm support ? Dec 10 12:43:49 did i get it right ? Dec 10 12:44:16 That's what /. says. The paper itself is slightly more intelligent on my quick skim Dec 10 12:44:42 i just read it quickly Dec 10 12:44:49 mp3 has drm support?? :) Dec 10 12:44:54 however, understand it fully requires culture on the subject Dec 10 12:45:00 which i barely have Dec 10 12:46:09 hasn't the generic (non-nokia-specific) corporate story been that ogg is a potential patent minefield? Dec 10 12:52:50 sounds like FUD Dec 10 12:53:05 but it might be substantiated Dec 10 13:00:37 mgedmin: if one asks a lawyer one can't do anything (ogg), and I think with ogg somebody made the mistake and asked Dec 10 13:02:50 hola yerga, how's your schedule? Dec 10 13:06:57 iirc, one or more of the MP3 patent owners basically said, "we got lotsa patents. We can't imagine you can do anything that smells like MP3 without licensing some of our patents." Dec 10 13:10:06 Interesting. Dec 10 13:10:19 Like meta tags? Dec 10 13:10:56 Though, really. They can't call dibs on that, considering it's been in various image formats for a lot longer than MP3 has been around .. Dec 10 13:15:47 <|tbb|> hi all, when canola will be released for chinook ? Dec 10 13:15:55 alterego: maybe you can help me ... :-) Dec 10 13:16:09 /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lffi Dec 10 13:16:37 does it mean something for u ? Dec 10 13:18:14 you are missing libffi Dec 10 13:18:21 (I think..) Dec 10 13:19:52 u are right ... Dec 10 13:19:56 thanks Dec 10 13:23:50 i don't know very well linux compilation tool Dec 10 13:24:01 but after a make && make install Dec 10 13:24:16 many seems to include script to create debian package after Dec 10 13:24:30 what is the traditionnal way to do that ... Dec 10 13:24:36 ? Dec 10 13:26:11 make distcheck Dec 10 13:26:19 then make dist M Dec 10 13:26:22 ? Dec 10 13:27:33 make distcheck produces a tar ball. Untar it to a different location and then dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Dec 10 13:28:27 that's a good way of working. But many packages aren't good enough to have working distcheck, so you need to do things a bit differently Dec 10 13:28:35 and is it in the Makefile script ? Dec 10 13:28:50 because i get an error on distcheck :) Dec 10 13:29:00 as you said : many packages aren't good enough to have working distcheck Dec 10 13:29:04 dpkg-buildpackage runs the make etc, (if the package is debianized) Dec 10 13:29:05 :) Dec 10 13:29:45 if you take the sources from VCS (like cvs or svn), export the sources from there and just run "dpkg-buildpackge -rfakeroot" Dec 10 13:30:07 or if you just got a tarball somewhere, run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" Dec 10 13:30:32 thx Dec 10 13:30:32 but the dpkg-buildpackage works only for debianized packages, i.e. packages with debian directory in the main dir Dec 10 13:30:50 it s an debiannized package Dec 10 13:31:05 but i need to edit some script to work :) Dec 10 13:31:23 checking for a Python interpreter with version >= 2.5... configure: error: no suitable Python interpreter found Dec 10 13:32:17 still the same thing with scratchbox ... i need to edit to modify te ./configure by ./configure PYTHON=/usr/bin.python2.5 Dec 10 13:37:20 hum ... do u know which script invoke the configure script from a dpkg-buildpackage ? Dec 10 13:37:46 i ve modified debian/rules to add python=/usr/bin/python2.5 Dec 10 13:38:20 but i still get the error ... and when i call configure with the python path i get no configure error Dec 10 13:38:24 ? Dec 10 13:38:24 debian/rules is the one to hack, but I don't know how, since I don't know what package your are editing (and I don't want to know either ;) Dec 10 13:38:40 (hihi Dec 10 13:38:49 ) Dec 10 13:39:02 thank for ur help ... Dec 10 13:39:14 i ll try to find :) Dec 10 13:39:34 hello. How can I detect a press of the back button? Does it map to one of the function keys? Dec 10 13:39:50 yes Dec 10 13:39:58 it s a function key Dec 10 13:40:10 don t remember which Dec 10 13:40:39 thanks Khertan_VM Dec 10 13:40:43 anyone else remember? Dec 10 13:42:10 kulve: thanks a lot ... Dec 10 13:42:23 package build :) Dec 10 13:42:35 i need to test it now :) Dec 10 13:42:50 np :) Dec 10 13:43:16 "maemo.org will have a short, 15 mins maintenance break starting in a Dec 10 13:43:17 few minutes. The server will get some more RAM." Dec 10 13:43:28 thx for the info <<< Dec 10 13:43:47 need to get source from svn Dec 10 13:44:25 :) Dec 10 13:47:24 Flaming doctools. Dec 10 13:47:50 15 minutes just to add a bit of RAM .. Dec 10 13:48:02 Do the techs have arthritis? Dec 10 13:53:36 I've got a neat idea. I'm thinking of adding support for gnome desktop applets. Dec 10 13:54:22 Would be nice to port the weather applet. And some others,. Dec 10 13:55:38 alterego > i'm porting it in python :) Dec 10 13:55:46 as gnome applet are in python :) Dec 10 13:56:07 Oh, does python have hildon desktop plugin support yet? Dec 10 13:56:31 Was it not supposed to be completed last week? Dec 10 13:56:56 Hah, my screen protector is so scratched it's just matte ^_^ Dec 10 13:57:18 Factory? Dec 10 13:58:02 Factory? Dec 10 13:58:36 has the default root password changed on OS2008? Dec 10 13:58:43 Looks like I'm finally making progress with my gedit port. Dec 10 13:58:57 gw280, probably, enable r&d change it, then disable r&d Dec 10 13:59:32 hrm. Dec 10 13:59:43 how does one enable R&D mode? Dec 10 14:00:22 root pw is still the same, just the root account is locked if root password is still rootme and rd mode is not enabled Dec 10 14:00:24 Protector, alterego. Dec 10 14:00:27 alterego > i ve compiled it Dec 10 14:00:34 packaged it Dec 10 14:00:38 and i m testing it :) Dec 10 14:00:39 Yeah it is. Dec 10 14:00:55 Khertan, damn you. Dec 10 14:00:56 and thanks to kulve for his help :) Dec 10 14:01:29 I guess I might as well just stop now then. Dec 10 14:01:35 That was a wasted 30 minutes. Dec 10 14:01:40 * alterego thinks of something else to port. Dec 10 14:01:46 stop what ? Dec 10 14:01:52 My gedit port .. Dec 10 14:02:16 i m not talking about gedit ... Dec 10 14:02:22 Oh, okay. Dec 10 14:02:27 i m talking about python hildon desktop :) Dec 10 14:02:30 What were you talking about? :P Dec 10 14:02:34 Oh right. Dec 10 14:02:38 Good Dec 10 14:02:43 arf ... i ve see your line about gedit :) Dec 10 14:02:52 i ve read the previous one ;) Dec 10 14:02:56 gw280: google probably knows :) Dec 10 14:03:04 felipec: yeah, just seen :P Dec 10 14:03:19 I'll continue my port of gedit then :P Dec 10 14:03:36 arg my binding package doen't include an python home appplet example ... arg Dec 10 14:03:41 It'll make me happy. Having a decent text editor with syntax highlighting. Dec 10 14:03:45 alterego> yes ... continue :) Dec 10 14:03:54 Not to mention the plugin architecture is pretty cool *(python support) :P Dec 10 14:04:12 alterego > are you saying than PyGTKEditor isn't a decent text editor ??? Dec 10 14:04:15 ;-) Dec 10 14:04:19 Heh Dec 10 14:04:22 It's young. Dec 10 14:04:27 And I'd rather not install Python :P Dec 10 14:04:33 yeah i know you doen't like python Dec 10 14:04:45 I don't dislike python. Dec 10 14:04:55 why not go whole hog and install monodevelop? Dec 10 14:05:03 eclipse :P Dec 10 14:05:27 Tak > lol Dec 10 14:05:59 <|tbb|> hi all, when canola will be released for chinook ? Dec 10 14:07:08 |tbb| > when it ll be done Dec 10 14:07:12 Heh Dec 10 14:09:13 haha, finnish spellchecker Dec 10 14:09:41 just add extra random Ks, Ts, and Us :-P Dec 10 14:15:13 pupnik_: you can mess with the permissions between dh_fixperms and dh_md5sums in the binary/arch (etc) targets in debian/rules Dec 10 14:18:04 wow, IBM has a lot of developer articles about the n800: http://tinyurl.com/2b3qr8 Dec 10 14:18:14 Yeah, I've seen them. Dec 10 14:18:16 Not bad :) Dec 10 14:20:58 Hmm .. The latest version of gedit _needs_ the latest gtk releases etc .. Dec 10 14:21:01 That's annoying. Dec 10 14:22:29 backport? Dec 10 14:22:47 Looks like that's the only option yeah. Dec 10 14:22:57 I'm gonna find the latest tree that will compile properly. Dec 10 14:23:06 Then check the differences between releases .. Dec 10 14:25:10 yay g++! "error: no match for 'operator*' in '*#'obj_type_ref' not supported by dump_expr#" Dec 10 14:25:19 Heh Dec 10 14:25:22 That looks pretty. Dec 10 14:25:28 I would just fudge the autofoo and look at the compile errors Dec 10 14:26:24 Good plan. Dec 10 14:26:29 I don't really know auto foo. Dec 10 14:26:36 But it'll give me a chance to look into it ;) Dec 10 14:28:14 Handy, there's an environment variable I can use to over ride all the pkg-config errors. Dec 10 14:37:26 arg ... binding don't seems to work! Dec 10 14:37:27 grrr Dec 10 14:39:06 Khertan, bindings? Dec 10 14:39:30 yeah my hildondesktop python binding ... :) Dec 10 14:39:44 Use the ruby one. Dec 10 14:39:45 It works. Dec 10 14:39:49 maybe it s just my applet which doesn't work Dec 10 14:39:55 Maybe Dec 10 14:39:59 alterego > no ! i ll do it in python ! Dec 10 14:40:00 :) Dec 10 14:40:02 You should write a test case. Dec 10 14:40:20 Python doesn't work, just give up and port it to Ruby :P Dec 10 14:40:20 (it s what i m writting) Dec 10 14:40:41 alterego > does we can execute python code in ruby ? Dec 10 14:40:46 ;) Dec 10 14:40:48 heresy! Dec 10 14:40:53 :) Dec 10 14:41:03 Yeah, that'd just be pointless. Dec 10 14:41:08 It'd make Ruby buggy like Python Dec 10 14:41:35 python isn't buggy ... the problem is between the screen and the chair ... Dec 10 14:41:50 Yeah, you wouldn't have that problem if you use Ruby Dec 10 14:41:51 oh, so the problem is with the programmer Dec 10 14:41:56 Ruby has a better screen-chair interface. Dec 10 14:42:19 Hang on, did I just see that right? Is there a Ruby port to the N800 complete with Hildon support? Dec 10 14:42:34 yes. Dec 10 14:42:35 ttmrichter, yes. I've been working on it for months :P Dec 10 14:42:43 WHERE?!?! :D Dec 10 14:42:45 ttmrichter: it is teh awesome. Dec 10 14:42:52 http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo Dec 10 14:43:06 * ttmrichter is going to start a killing spree if he doesn't get an URL soon.... Dec 10 14:43:07 there's also rubygame support Dec 10 14:43:10 Damned lag! Dec 10 14:43:14 Heh Dec 10 14:43:33 Yeah, thanks to Tak for that :) Dec 10 14:43:37 You have *NO* idea how happy you just made me! Dec 10 14:43:49 alterego > i think you have already make home applet in ruby ... Dec 10 14:43:49 ttmrichter, merry christmas ;) Dec 10 14:43:58 Khertan, yeah. I've got a home applet. Dec 10 14:44:02 where do you leave your ruby script ? Dec 10 14:44:13 Khertan, it's in the home directory. Dec 10 14:44:13 speaking of which, would anybody like to test the rgvkb package? Dec 10 14:44:15 Between having Ruby on the N800 and knowing that Erlang is portable to it (it has been done, but not packaged), I'm really downright ecstatic! Dec 10 14:44:18 i ve make a .desktop ... Dec 10 14:44:25 in the home directory ??? Dec 10 14:44:36 Khertan, yes. The desktop file has to be in /usr/share/applications Dec 10 14:44:53 Or something. Dec 10 14:44:55 it s not the home :) Dec 10 14:45:07 No, the script is in my home directory. Dec 10 14:45:13 yes i know where to place the .desktop Dec 10 14:45:20 And the .desktop file is in /usr/share/applications/hildondesktop blah Dec 10 14:45:29 Okay Dec 10 14:45:33 but when u don't give full path to the ruby script Dec 10 14:45:53 where does it the default path N Dec 10 14:45:54 ? Dec 10 14:45:55 I'd have to check, I can't remember. /usr/bin probably. Dec 10 14:46:00 :) Dec 10 14:46:06 alterego: you did that ruby port? Dec 10 14:46:14 dpb_, indeed. Dec 10 14:46:25 there's a typo on the webpage :) Dec 10 14:46:32 dpb_, send a patch :P Dec 10 14:46:35 :D Dec 10 14:46:37 powerfull should be powerful Dec 10 14:46:38 Where's the typo? Dec 10 14:46:42 alterego, I am going to undergo a sex change operation complete with genetic therapy so I can bear your children. Dec 10 14:46:43 hello. How can I detect a press of the back button? Does it map to one of the function keys? Dec 10 14:46:44 Yeah .. Typo ;) Dec 10 14:47:26 ttmrichter, that's not required. Just buy me a beer if we ever meet ;) Dec 10 14:47:40 if you're talking about the circular-arrow-hardware-button, then it's Esc Dec 10 14:47:43 OK, deal. Dec 10 14:47:48 Coming to China anytime soon? Dec 10 14:47:55 Hah, probably not. Dec 10 14:48:01 Canada? Dec 10 14:48:09 Canada, probably :) Dec 10 14:48:09 Chinada? Dec 10 14:48:18 Chinada? Is that a new bread of dog? Dec 10 14:48:30 OK, I have a buddy in Canada who'll take you out for a beer or three...hundred. Dec 10 14:48:33 mgedmin: thanks a lot! Dec 10 14:48:37 He'll be just as ecstatic. Dec 10 14:48:44 Cool, Dec 10 14:48:56 I'd like to start a RUG for maemo ;) Dec 10 14:48:59 Anyway, bedtime. Chat at you all later, and alterego thanks again. Dec 10 14:49:10 No problem Dec 10 14:49:53 I thought Chinada was going to be the next maemo release Dec 10 14:49:56 "You gotta get up, you gotta get up, you gotta get down." Jesus, what a confusing song. Dec 10 14:50:03 :) Dec 10 14:50:45 Maybe I should create some kind of ruby-maemo forum. Dec 10 14:50:52 Or actively start using my blog ^_^ Dec 10 14:51:36 maybe a subforum in ITT? Dec 10 14:52:20 No, that'd be overkill. Dec 10 14:52:33 What I'd like is, an area for reporting bugs. Dec 10 14:52:46 ah - a garage project, then ;-) Dec 10 14:52:54 And every now and then I'd like to ask people what they think about the bindings. Whether they think the API could be improved. That sort of thing. Dec 10 14:53:24 And start a debate. I think a blog would be pretty good for that kind of thing. Dec 10 14:53:52 I might just write my own little web app to do that. Dec 10 14:54:01 lol Dec 10 14:54:20 in django? ;-) Dec 10 14:54:22 I'm not really being very good with this blog stuff. Dec 10 14:54:53 Maybe when I get the N810 I'll be more likely to write blog posts. But I've not wrote a single one .. Dec 10 14:56:30 Khertan, something that the ruby hildon desktop plugin loader does that the python one doesn't. I added error reporting. If it fails to load a plugin it tells you why ;) Dec 10 14:56:42 arf ... Dec 10 14:56:58 * alterego stretches Dec 10 14:57:02 i was looking in the code to see where error was reported Dec 10 14:57:12 It's not. Dec 10 14:57:12 alterego: can we write desktop plugins with the ruby bindings? Dec 10 14:57:14 but ... i ve found anything yet Dec 10 14:57:22 and now i understand why Dec 10 14:57:26 Spakman_, yes! :) That's what we're talking about ;) Dec 10 14:57:50 is that with version 0.4? Dec 10 14:57:50 and i hope we ll can soon in python :) Dec 10 14:57:54 I've yet to officially announce 0.4.0 but I should probably do that. Dec 10 14:58:17 Spakman_, yeah. It hasn't got plugin error reporting yet. If you wait an hour I'll have 0.4.1 packaged and uploaded. Dec 10 14:58:30 ah, then I will :) Dec 10 14:58:40 Makes things a lot easier. Dec 10 14:58:46 There's also a fix for libconic. Dec 10 15:00:43 g_propagate_error Dec 10 15:01:02 is it a gtk api ? Dec 10 15:01:09 alterego: just saw the desktop plugin example - nice one! Dec 10 15:01:11 looks like glib Dec 10 15:09:07 Khertan, that's glib Dec 10 15:09:30 That'll show up in SDK. Not on target Dec 10 15:09:50 Stay on target. Dec 10 15:10:02 :) Dec 10 15:11:15 Hello World :) Dec 10 15:14:58 tak ... yes ... Dec 10 15:15:19 sniffff ... this doesn't work ... snifff Dec 10 15:15:24 My loader code is probably the neatest code I've done in C for ruby-maemo. Dec 10 15:15:43 Only _one_ swear word! Dec 10 15:15:53 Most impressive. Dec 10 15:15:56 i ll try on the sdk Dec 10 15:16:35 Khertan, hint, if it's a python exception being raised by your code. It wont show. The propagate errors were only for loading the file and some other "init" like code. At least that's what I believe. Dec 10 15:16:43 I don't think the loader handles python exceptions at all. Dec 10 15:16:54 It'll either crash the desktop or it'll do nothing. Dec 10 15:17:38 i don t even know if the code is loaded ... Dec 10 15:17:48 :/ Dec 10 15:18:00 it s do nothing and the applet is unselected in the selection dialog Dec 10 15:18:01 Best to do it all in the SDK Dec 10 15:18:05 Unfortunately :/ Dec 10 15:18:16 Yeah, that sounds like it might be with your cod. Dec 10 15:18:19 ~code Dec 10 15:18:20 well, code is relatively stable right now, and I think we're going to see lots of changes Dec 10 15:18:57 alterego: i get no error when i launch the python script directly with python Dec 10 15:19:23 and it s no mine, but the example from the binding Dec 10 15:19:29 Ah Dec 10 15:19:33 Hmm, that's not good is it. Dec 10 15:19:42 Try it in the SDK. Dec 10 15:19:45 Look for loader errors. Dec 10 15:20:15 When you start the desktop with af-sb-init.sh there may be an error when it scans the loader directory. Dec 10 15:20:28 You can force the appearance of this error by touch'ing the loader.so file. Dec 10 15:20:41 Well, that forces the loading of the loader. Dec 10 15:21:22 hi all Dec 10 15:21:29 where is the /usr in the scratchbox tree ? Dec 10 15:21:46 found Dec 10 15:26:05 target's /usr? Dec 10 15:26:18 or host-side /usr? Dec 10 15:27:06 jumpula: i ve found ... the target user Dec 10 15:27:23 in target folder :-) Dec 10 15:27:33 yeah, and symlink in / :) Dec 10 15:28:11 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch' Dec 10 15:28:12 qemu: Unsupported syscall: 264 Dec 10 15:28:12 qemu: Unsupported syscall: 316 Dec 10 15:28:22 this stink Dec 10 15:28:48 ImportError: No module named homememory.py Dec 10 15:30:00 put it in the path then Dec 10 15:30:41 zoran: i ve put the path Dec 10 15:30:49 Khertan, use native. Don't code python in the armel SDK environment ;) Dec 10 15:31:22 i ll try Dec 10 15:31:37 alterego hates python, I think Dec 10 15:31:58 Khertan, when I say native. I mean the i386 target./ Dec 10 15:32:08 zoran: everyone know this :) Dec 10 15:32:10 zoran, I don't hate python :P I pity those that use it ;) Dec 10 15:32:13 alterego: i ve understood Dec 10 15:32:14 alterego ruby on rails 2.0 is out Dec 10 15:32:25 Cool. Dec 10 15:32:31 I'll have to check out 2.0 .. Dec 10 15:32:55 could be a big step further Dec 10 15:33:16 Yeah, I've not used edge at all. I've been sticking to 1.2 Dec 10 15:33:22 almost as python 2.5 ;) Dec 10 15:34:37 Rails is just a web framework :P It's not Ruby. Dec 10 15:34:37 arg ... loader not compiled for x86 Dec 10 15:34:41 need to do it Dec 10 15:34:42 * alterego can't wait for ruby 2.0 .. Dec 10 15:35:19 mv ruby-1.2 ruby-2.0 Dec 10 15:35:41 mv ruby 1.9 ruby-2.0 ;) Dec 10 15:35:51 mv ruby-{1.9,2.0} ;) Dec 10 15:36:18 cat ruby* | /dev/null - :) Dec 10 15:36:28 alterego can t build for x86 target ... python2.5 dependancy :( Dec 10 15:36:34 and it s not available Dec 10 15:36:43 what dep it wants? Dec 10 15:37:07 python2.5 python2.5-dev python2.5-gtk2-dev Dec 10 15:37:19 no debs? Dec 10 15:37:22 arg ... my sourcelist Dec 10 15:37:31 i ve change target :) Dec 10 15:37:35 extras? Dec 10 15:37:54 or debian server? Dec 10 15:39:20 extras was missing Dec 10 15:39:33 on slashdot I read that nokia thinks ogg is proprietary Dec 10 15:40:38 it is ... there is patent on it, isn t it ? Dec 10 15:40:48 hm... Dec 10 15:41:01 heh, on slashdot I read that linux is a tool used by godless communists to subvert capitalism and Jesus Dec 10 15:41:10 lol Dec 10 15:41:34 oh no, they have found out our plans :P Dec 10 15:41:39 I've heard that senate should prohibite linux in states Dec 10 15:41:55 I was just about to subvert jesus Dec 10 15:41:58 it s already the case in france Dec 10 15:42:26 subversion or prohibition? Dec 10 15:42:34 prohibition Dec 10 15:42:39 really? Dec 10 15:42:52 huh, do you have a source on that? Dec 10 15:43:07 not really Dec 10 15:43:09 I don't believe that - a ton of Free Software comes out of france Dec 10 15:43:13 but there is a law Dec 10 15:43:25 I don't see how you can prohibit linux, you can prohibit it inside a company or inside the government itself of course Dec 10 15:43:50 but that's really be paranoid the wrong way around Dec 10 15:43:52 a recent law that focus on mp3 piracy ... b Dec 10 15:43:52 in states it should forbid anything free and that does not has a price on it Dec 10 15:44:14 speaking of which, I see that the US govt got pwnd the other day via an /email/ exploit Dec 10 15:44:26 well, let's put a $0.01 price tag on it then Dec 10 15:44:29 I thought is was related to forbidding to release software without a company being accountable for it.. Dec 10 15:44:30 problem fixed :P Dec 10 15:44:41 wumpus, why should we? Dec 10 15:44:51 so we can get rich from french people Dec 10 15:45:01 ah, coooooooooooool! Dec 10 15:45:07 they have to buy it while others can download it for free Dec 10 15:45:10 wouldn't that be cool :D Dec 10 15:45:15 yes! Dec 10 15:45:20 X-Fade_: they want that each program get a certificate to know their authors Dec 10 15:45:47 but this certificate could only be obtains by company Dec 10 15:45:57 Khertan_VM, it is ok Dec 10 15:46:02 some signed version management would do for open source Dec 10 15:46:04 or in the headers Dec 10 15:46:19 with gpl sticked on it Dec 10 15:46:20 assign copyright to the FSF Dec 10 15:46:21 it hasn t be approved yet ... but it should be in a near future Dec 10 15:46:31 in open source projects there really is accountability for who write which line Dec 10 15:46:37 wrote* Dec 10 15:46:38 but it wont be free :- Dec 10 15:47:06 yes, but I mean it's bullshit from a law enforcement position Dec 10 15:47:08 what do you folks think about patenting one-two-3 click processes? Dec 10 15:47:29 i can t explain exactly the details as i ven t a good enought english Dec 10 15:47:32 or "get this by clicking and using brain" Dec 10 15:48:03 what if I don't use mouse? Dec 10 15:48:26 but if we'd have to be accountable for all the code we write we must include clauses such as 'don't use this in vehicles and nuclear reactors' :P Dec 10 15:48:27 and Dec 10 15:49:03 R.Stallman, help! Dec 10 15:49:09 dpkg: error processing libgtk2.0-0 (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127 Dec 10 15:49:26 pfff it s a real pain to use this sdk ... Dec 10 15:49:42 anyway, until a country really manages to forbid open source this is all theory Dec 10 15:49:47 mhm... what was the error message before that? Dec 10 15:50:02 here in the netherlands the government itself uses open source in some cities Dec 10 15:50:13 /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory Dec 10 15:50:25 wumpus, gvmnt with brain! Dec 10 15:51:03 no, that dpkg-preconfigure message is harmless Dec 10 15:51:12 and it's not invoked from the post-installation script Dec 10 15:51:37 if there's no other output, it means the postinst script exited with nonzero but didn't print anything Dec 10 15:51:47 free software is widely used in some cities in the us as well Dec 10 15:52:15 a notable example being my neighbor, largo, fl Dec 10 15:52:17 and some ms is free software, if one does not pay for it :) Dec 10 15:52:28 no, I mean Free Software Dec 10 15:52:35 Free as in Stallman ;-) Dec 10 15:52:35 ;) Dec 10 15:52:45 Hah Dec 10 15:52:45 * alterego chuckles. Dec 10 15:52:45 Haven't they released pymaemo for i386? Dec 10 15:52:48 Seriously, though. If I hated python that much. I wouldn't be trying to be helpful to Khertan :) Dec 10 15:53:35 their is a release for pymameo ... but i ve problem with a dependancy of pymameo ... Dec 10 15:53:46 the package seems to be corrupted Dec 10 15:55:13 Khertan_VM, the real problem is making perl for vms Dec 10 15:55:26 all about maemo is nothing compared to it Dec 10 15:55:29 perl ? Dec 10 15:55:51 little gnome with "perl" shirt Dec 10 15:58:23 someone has python 2.5 on os2006? Dec 10 16:00:05 * zoran gone to feed dragons Dec 10 16:15:03 Hmm, I should really make it display the line number ^_^ Dec 10 16:20:16 I think I'll make it dump the entire stack trace. Ala, Rails. Dec 10 16:20:22 But in a pretty Gtk::Dialog :D Dec 10 16:21:14 Vagalume needs a desktop applet. Dec 10 16:21:37 Then somebody needs to combine Rhapsody, Vagalume, fm and internet radio into 1 uber-applet. Dec 10 16:21:54 does vagalume currently play local music? or just last.fm streams? Dec 10 16:22:04 last.fm Dec 10 16:22:10 Media player is for local. :) Dec 10 16:22:25 yeah, kind of sucks that they're segregated Dec 10 16:22:50 Nokia should provide a decent plugin interface for stuff like that for Media player. Dec 10 16:22:56 also, is there a way to build a playlist from multiple artists/genres/whatever in the media player? Dec 10 16:22:57 yes. Dec 10 16:24:03 Yeah, a plugin interface for the media player would be awesome. Dec 10 16:24:07 * alterego eats some cake. Dec 10 16:24:34 hola Dec 10 16:27:30 <_berto_> oh, I read vagalume Dec 10 16:27:33 <_berto_> only last.fm streams, sorry Dec 10 16:27:35 <_berto_> 8-) Dec 10 16:27:58 Maybe a plugin for Canola2. Dec 10 16:28:06 _berto_: is there any plan to change that? Dec 10 16:28:07 <_berto_> GeneralAntilles: I'm working on a statusbar icon Dec 10 16:28:17 For Vagalume? Dec 10 16:28:20 <_berto_> GeneralAntilles: yes Dec 10 16:28:22 My statusbar is full. Dec 10 16:28:29 <_berto_> GeneralAntilles: optional of course ;-) Dec 10 16:28:39 I'd rather have a desktop applet. Dec 10 16:29:10 <_berto_> Tak: well, it's intended to be a last.fm player :) Dec 10 16:29:30 <_berto_> GeneralAntilles: I'd like to add that too Dec 10 16:33:24 <_berto_> Tak: there are several media players out there, I don't think it makes sense to convert vagalume into another media player Dec 10 16:34:00 * Tak shrugs Dec 10 16:34:00 Ha, I agree 100%, _berto_. Dec 10 16:34:05 <_berto_> for me it's more interesting to add all features specific to last.fm Dec 10 16:34:13 <_berto_> tags, recommendations, events, ... those things Dec 10 16:34:50 And for those that don't use last.fm .. Dec 10 16:34:53 :) Dec 10 16:35:11 <_berto_> http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/multimedia/ Dec 10 16:35:11 <_berto_> :) Dec 10 16:35:26 None of that stuff interests me. Dec 10 16:35:36 <_berto_> I see some 5 media players there Dec 10 16:35:37 The builtin media player is fine for me. Dec 10 16:35:51 is there a way to build a playlist from multiple artists/genres/whatever in the media player? Dec 10 16:36:05 kulve: Would you like a vector version of the Ogg fish logo so that your blown-up image doesn't look so god-awful? Dec 10 16:36:23 derf: :) Dec 10 16:36:39 and if not, try feeding it to http://vectormagic.stanford.edu/ Dec 10 16:36:44 derf: I just had to put something there, and couldn't find anything proper.. Dec 10 16:37:16 derf: so, why not :) Dec 10 16:37:56 http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/xifish.pdf Dec 10 16:38:09 Generated from http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/theora/doc/spec/xifish.fig Dec 10 16:39:58 PDF ? Dec 10 16:40:20 SVG would be better wouldn't it? Dec 10 16:41:04 :)] Dec 10 16:43:11 hi bergie Dec 10 16:43:18 hi Dec 10 16:47:39 is somewhere a wiki page or something about the images in the maemo.org/download? Dec 10 16:59:51 I tried uploading svg for the download image, but it just says "You can only upload images here. This file will not be saved." Dec 10 17:00:03 Heh Dec 10 17:01:30 try with a png :) Dec 10 17:01:43 browsers seems to show svgs quite nicely nowadays, a bit slow though.. Dec 10 17:04:01 would be nice to have more media players with mplayer (instead of built-in) support. Dec 10 17:04:38 transcoding is for suckers, and almost all standard-def content I've played works beautifully through mplayer. Dec 10 17:06:09 kulve > browsers but many web application don't want anything than gif,png,jpeg Dec 10 17:07:22 sure Dec 10 17:07:34 but svg might become a nice addition to those Dec 10 17:08:58 sure Dec 10 17:15:37 derf: I tried to change the logo, but I don't see it updating on the page.. Dec 10 17:16:08 hmm.. And actually I've uploaded an empty png.. Dec 10 17:19:04 is there a way to get g_warning message on the device ? Dec 10 17:20:49 or a simple instruction in one line to write to a log in c :) Dec 10 17:20:55 wouldn't you have to build a glib with those messages turned on? Dec 10 17:21:48 hum ... i think it ll be simple to build the loader with a write to a file in /var/log :) Dec 10 17:22:11 Khertan, install syslogd Dec 10 17:22:20 -> done Dec 10 17:23:23 syslogd ? Dec 10 17:23:28 it s already available ? Dec 10 17:23:33 in a repos ? Dec 10 17:24:59 I installed it from the repository.maemo.org (not extras) Dec 10 17:25:19 nothing was found for "syslogd" in OS 2008 Dec 10 17:25:25 sysklodg even Dec 10 17:25:36 or sysklogd if you prefer the correct spelling Dec 10 17:25:41 ok :) Dec 10 17:26:34 i ll try :) Dec 10 17:26:36 * sp3000 slaps gronmayer.com/it/ for using method=post for a search Dec 10 17:26:54 Somebody should file a bug. Dec 10 17:26:56 Khertan: you should remove them from the startup to scripts as they log *a lot* (update-rc.d -f remove sysklogd, and same for klogd, iirc) Dec 10 17:27:40 when is MAEMO_CHANGES defined? Dec 10 17:28:25 hm - "Nokia wants W3C to remove Ogg from upcoming HTML5 standard" Dec 10 17:29:32 wtf Dec 10 17:29:34 what's wrong with ogg? Dec 10 17:29:50 <|R> wumpus : nothing, they're lost Dec 10 17:30:11 huh.. but what do they have against it? Dec 10 17:30:20 wumpus: it's "proprietary" Dec 10 17:30:27 <|R> they call it proprietary and blame it for not having DRM measures Dec 10 17:30:30 well,, isn't mp3 too? Dec 10 17:30:36 it's owned by this german institute Dec 10 17:30:39 <|R> well, the fact is, ogg isn't Dec 10 17:30:55 Well, some lawyer at Nokia, anyway. Dec 10 17:31:07 well, mp3 has no DRM measures built in as well, that's always an outer layer Dec 10 17:31:18 weird Dec 10 17:36:03 derf: now the image looks better on the actual dl page, but the thumbnail is still only a half of the logo. Any ideas how to fix that? Dec 10 17:36:27 derf: btw. Did you already try to watch theora videos with the Media Player? ;) Dec 10 17:38:09 kulve: I haven't actually installed OS 2008 yet. Dec 10 17:38:24 oh, nm then :) Dec 10 17:38:29 Have you? Dec 10 17:38:32 sure Dec 10 17:38:56 (not a the smartest move maybe, but I wanted to update my packages for it..) Dec 10 17:39:00 -a Dec 10 17:39:08 Maybe you just have a caching problem? The image looks fine here. Dec 10 17:39:30 yeah, it's now ok here too. It seem to just take while before the page is actually updated Dec 10 17:39:39 http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008 Dec 10 17:39:52 system-log-deamon not installed ... where i can find it ? Dec 10 17:39:55 there the thumbnails are only half of the logo.. Dec 10 17:40:11 "Fresh" Dec 10 17:40:11 Khertan: what is system-log-daemon..? Dec 10 17:40:13 I like it. Dec 10 17:40:24 fresh fish Dec 10 17:40:27 on dependancy of sysklogd Dec 10 17:40:38 Khertan: weird, I didn't need to install it.. Dec 10 17:40:39 kulve: It seems to assume the 5:3 aspect ratio. Dec 10 17:40:42 kulve: Probably squid cache or something like that. Will fix itself probably.. Dec 10 17:40:56 X-Fade_: so it seems Dec 10 17:41:46 Probably easiest just to make an 800x480 image with extra padding on the sides. Dec 10 17:42:16 or crop a bit from the top and the bottom..? Dec 10 17:42:31 go home ... by Dec 10 17:42:32 bye Dec 10 17:44:28 derf: I'll crop it, but it probably looks too bad, and then I'll add the extra padding (which will make the logo smaller) Dec 10 17:45:54 Oddly, that doesn't really bother me much. It was the horrible up-scaling artifacts that bugged me. Dec 10 17:47:49 derf: now there's cropped image.. Dec 10 17:50:10 And down goes maemo.org. Dec 10 17:50:24 did I DoS it.. Dec 10 17:50:47 kulve, if you tried to visit more than one page in the past hour. Then yes. You DoS'd it. Dec 10 17:50:50 Damn you .. Dec 10 17:50:55 Yes. You _click_ _too_ _fast_. Dec 10 17:51:11 Oh, there it goes. Dec 10 17:51:12 Finally. Dec 10 17:53:53 Hah, I just realised, my maemo version number is inline with chinook now. Dec 10 17:53:58 Maybe I should keep it this way ^_^ Dec 10 18:02:26 so... anyone have a jaiku invite they can spareL Dec 10 18:02:28 ? Dec 10 18:12:37 procto, do you really think this is the place to ask that kind of question? Dec 10 18:13:15 I've a little idea for Maemo..... do you know Nokia Sports Tracker? It would be usefull to have a client for Maemo too :) They could publish a sort of API, so we could write a client for it, or they could write it for us... as they wish :P what do you tink about? Dec 10 18:13:47 I don't think they do the sports I'm really interested in ;) Dec 10 18:14:02 uhm? Dec 10 18:18:00 * b0unc3 wizard-mounter 1.1 is out! https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=444 Dec 10 18:21:48 alterego, it worked for me. ;) Dec 10 18:22:07 re Dec 10 18:22:41 Time to forget about bug reports and just presume everything is broken until you get an anti-bug report. Dec 10 18:23:05 .oO( ...but who wants to mount a wizard? ) Dec 10 18:23:31 I'll get me coat Dec 10 18:24:40 It's probably for the maemo girls .. Dec 10 18:24:59 lol Dec 10 18:26:01 I should stop eating ketchup. I've never likd it that much. Dec 10 18:26:06 I put on my robe and wizard hat. Dec 10 18:26:08 And it has no value at all. Dec 10 18:26:09 lol Dec 10 18:26:21 Anti-oxydants! Dec 10 18:26:29 why you keep eating it then Dec 10 18:26:34 if you don't like the taste Dec 10 18:26:53 how to include extra files (like glade ui definition) in .deb? http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html doesn't cover that Dec 10 18:26:55 Fish and chips are boring without _something_ Dec 10 18:27:05 And I _hate_ salt and vinegar. Dec 10 18:27:21 how strange Dec 10 18:27:25 are you english? Dec 10 18:27:26 Ha Dec 10 18:27:28 Heh Dec 10 18:27:36 how about mayo then? Dec 10 18:27:42 Tartar sauce? Dec 10 18:27:46 or some kebab sauce or whatever Dec 10 18:27:47 Yeah, and mayo for the chips. Dec 10 18:27:48 I think I'll keep a stock of curry paste or something for the times I make fish and chips Dec 10 18:28:02 Eesch .. I don't like Mayo either (or salad dressing) Dec 10 18:28:09 BeBraw: one way is to add extra installation lines in the install step of debian/rules Dec 10 18:28:10 The later being quite bad for you. Dec 10 18:28:17 bbq sauce ftw Dec 10 18:28:20 How can you not like mayo? Dec 10 18:28:30 Tak: k. i will take a look at that. thanks Dec 10 18:28:54 and remember Miracle Whip != mayonnaise. :P Dec 10 18:28:58 bbq sauce is too strong, like ketchup. Dec 10 18:29:04 for my C programs, I wrote a script that embeds the contents of a .glade file as a string constant in a header Dec 10 18:29:27 Honestly, alterego, I think you don't want to be happy. :P Dec 10 18:29:43 lol trudat @ GeneralAntilles about Miracle Whip Dec 10 18:29:45 its so bad Dec 10 18:29:56 MAybe, or maybe I do and I'm just too fussy :P Dec 10 18:30:13 I think curry sauce sounds like a great idea .. Dec 10 18:30:22 GeneralAntilles, that disprove your theory of no girls on interenet Dec 10 18:30:29 *internet Dec 10 18:30:40 *fishnetz Dec 10 18:30:44 Ha Dec 10 18:31:04 it's the best feeling when you get home after a weekend away, and get to eat all the chocolates in the advent calendar you've missed! Dec 10 18:31:36 I'm not really a fan of chocolate .. Dec 10 18:31:47 Ha Dec 10 18:31:53 Chocolate is the best. Dec 10 18:31:54 :-) Dec 10 18:32:13 Too much sugar. Dec 10 18:32:14 * K`zan has two oreos for brekky :) Dec 10 18:32:18 Makes me feel kind of ill. Dec 10 18:32:24 Dark chocolate? Dec 10 18:32:33 Dark choc I can handle Dec 10 18:32:34 Dunked in coffee :) Dec 10 18:33:00 Dark chocolate mints are nice .. Dec 10 18:33:06 Andes Dec 10 18:34:54 Heh, the Maemo IRC channel is more like a Pub than a topical discussion area ^_^ Dec 10 18:35:03 <|R> cheers to that! :D Dec 10 18:35:33 No religion, No politics ^_^ Dec 10 18:35:53 <|R> No politics? :P Dec 10 18:36:08 I don't really think anyonie likes talking about those things anyway. Dec 10 18:36:24 alterego: well, there's a relatively high proportion of maemo jaiku users, and it's not like I just popped in to leech invites :> Dec 10 18:36:26 <|R> yeah, like we never see people screaming ron paul ;) Dec 10 18:36:39 Who's that? Dec 10 18:36:42 * GeneralAntilles runs in a circle screaming "Ron Paul". Dec 10 18:36:47 <|R> haha Dec 10 18:37:13 * alterego runs in a circle shouting "My Bush! My Bush! My Bush is on Fire!" Dec 10 18:37:25 That was some good eats. Dec 10 18:37:26 alterego saw god! Dec 10 18:37:43 <|R> We don't need no water let the .... burn! :P Dec 10 18:37:47 A DIY mini-pizza, a piece of fish, and some baked chips. Dec 10 18:38:53 Hmm .. I wonder if I can come up with some port forwarding magick that'd stop my apps disconnecting when switching between networks. Dec 10 18:39:42 just run quicker and they might not :p Dec 10 18:39:56 Heh, not likely. Dec 10 18:40:10 IP and route will still more than likely be different ;) Dec 10 18:41:05 clearly you're not running fast enough then ;) Dec 10 18:41:34 I don't even have to move when switcing from wireless to GPRS :P Dec 10 18:42:00 port forwarding won't do that Dec 10 18:42:08 you'd have to use a tunnel of some sort Dec 10 18:42:18 alterego: VPN a static virtual IP to a concentrator somewhere Dec 10 18:42:18 and I'm not aware of any software which can handle such a thing Dec 10 18:42:21 Yes, with SSL .. Dec 10 18:42:28 http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071210-nokia-wants-w3c-to-remove-out-ogg-from-upcoming-html5-standard.html Dec 10 18:42:28 alterego: and use the virtual IP for your routed traffic out Dec 10 18:42:31 uhh, wtf? Dec 10 18:42:31 ~SSH .. Dec 10 18:42:55 Yes, vegai, it's been brought up several time.s Dec 10 18:42:58 html5 is a joke. Dec 10 18:43:48 alterego: then as long as your vpn stuff handles it and you do it within the tcp timeout, it'll be persistent across networks. SSH+tap interface might do it, openvpn should too Dec 10 18:44:07 dragorn, okay, thanks for the pointers. Dec 10 18:45:06 you could also use a BNC if it's just IRC that you want to stay on Dec 10 18:45:07 alterego: you might be able to kluge up something simpler with nc and tun/tap, for really ugly. There (was?) a standard for Mobile IP which did essentially the same thing (consistent private IPs mapped to a concentrator neutral of the carrier), there might be some sw there Dec 10 18:45:15 * alterego shudders. Dec 10 18:45:21 BNC is for the newbs. Dec 10 18:45:24 screen ftw! :) Dec 10 18:45:53 * Tak recommend dircproxy Dec 10 18:45:57 And no, this isn't IRC. Dec 10 18:45:59 Not specifically. Dec 10 18:46:07 This is SSH connections and Pidgin. Dec 10 18:46:34 pidgin usually stays life for me between net switches Dec 10 18:46:38 I might just do a web interface to libpidgin. Dec 10 18:46:48 unless i wander in to a black spot Dec 10 18:49:13 YAM! Dec 10 18:49:33 Like downtown LA? Dec 10 18:49:40 (wonders if that was too racist) Dec 10 18:49:59 yam? Dec 10 18:50:04 Yet Another Meebo Dec 10 18:50:10 The darkside of the moon? Dec 10 18:50:51 writing a libpurple web client is this generation's irc client Dec 10 18:52:57 <|R> anyone remember where i can get a list of the participating countries for the developer coupon/rebate program? Dec 10 18:53:05 <|R> (US, UK, France, .... ?) Dec 10 18:53:23 "rebate program"? Dec 10 18:53:33 <|R> discount or whatever :P Dec 10 18:53:38 <|R> the 99E thingie :) Dec 10 18:53:49 No, Dec 10 18:53:49 <|R> _the_ code! :P Dec 10 18:53:53 What country are you in? Dec 10 18:54:04 <|R> France... but apparently this work all over europe Dec 10 18:54:10 Interesting, the New N82 directional pad looks identical to that of the N810's .. Dec 10 18:54:10 <|R> i just don't know which other european countries are in Dec 10 18:54:21 Yes, the UK is in it. Dec 10 18:54:28 I'd say any country that has a nokia shop. Dec 10 18:54:43 And if not, they might be able to order from europe.nokia Dec 10 18:54:51 <|R> these 3 are in, i just don't remember the list i had to choose from :) Dec 10 18:55:21 <|R> as i'm not in france, and want a qwerty... (long story) Dec 10 18:55:37 Heh, order it from the UK then. Dec 10 18:55:54 Though, I would have expected the france model to be qwerty. Dec 10 18:56:02 <|R> nah, azerty :/ Dec 10 18:56:13 Oh, shame. Dec 10 18:56:21 And you're in France? Dec 10 18:56:27 <|R> but best thing would be to sell my coupon and get a north american version... but that's going to be hard (nobody trust code vs money exchange over the net ...) Dec 10 18:56:33 <|R> non, Canada Dec 10 18:56:38 <|R> s/non/no Dec 10 18:56:50 <|R> but i have family there Dec 10 18:56:53 There isn't a Canadian nokia online shop? Dec 10 18:56:56 n800 £134.99 delivered from play.com for today (out of stock tho) Dec 10 18:56:56 Oh, right. Dec 10 18:57:15 has anyone knows examples of business applications on top of maemo? Dec 10 18:57:22 <|R> I'm trying to get a friend of the family in the UK to get it... 2nd best case after a N-A version... Dec 10 18:57:34 <|R> alterego : yes there is a canadian shop, but not all shop are in the discount program Dec 10 18:57:44 <|R> that's why i need that list which i forgot to see what my options are :/ Dec 10 18:57:47 does nokiausa ship to canada? Dec 10 18:57:48 "nokia online" Dec 10 18:58:01 <|R> acydlord : nop Dec 10 18:58:12 <|R> acydlord : and anyway right now, my coupon is locked to europe Dec 10 18:58:20 <|R> i asked the nokia guy responsible for the coupon Dec 10 18:58:37 15th is when the usa codes work right? Dec 10 18:58:38 How do you apply for a coupon? Where's the link to that info? Dec 10 18:58:40 <|R> couldn't change it (i would have had a contact in the states now but as i didn't know when i had to choose) Dec 10 18:58:50 <|R> Fritzy : it's over Dec 10 18:58:55 <|R> it was 1-2 months ago Dec 10 18:59:01 ah Dec 10 18:59:42 <|R> So, best thing would be, sell the coupon for 280 Euro, get a canadian version.... 2nd best will be get a UK version with channel 10-13 only at 10mW... 3rd will be getting stuck with the azerty version :P Dec 10 19:00:08 i'm probably not gonna be able to pick up my n810 for about a month as i'm flat broke :( Dec 10 19:00:34 <|R> :( Dec 10 19:00:36 I'd love an 810, but I don't need GPS, and the price difference is astounding. Dec 10 19:01:02 more available storage with n800 as well Dec 10 19:01:19 <|R> yeah, it's really just a nicely integrated n800 + gps + 1/2 kbd :) Dec 10 19:01:21 Yeah, but no keyboard! Dec 10 19:01:26 <|R> - SD cards... Dec 10 19:01:30 It's got a perfectly functional thumbboard. Dec 10 19:02:04 Their site mentioned that the screen was better in sunlight on the 810 as well. Dec 10 19:02:19 <|R> transreflective screen (whatever that is ;) Dec 10 19:02:21 yeah, the n810 has a transreflective layer Dec 10 19:03:04 I'd /like/ the GPS for hackery like Jabber extended presence, but really, for $300 more, it just doesn't seem worth it. Dec 10 19:03:31 You can buy it in Canada |R Dec 10 19:03:46 <|R> alterego : i know, i can buy it full price... Dec 10 19:03:52 <|R> but i have a 99E coupon Dec 10 19:04:03 |R, check out the nseries site .. Dec 10 19:04:21 |R, that code probably wont be usable until friday. Dec 10 19:04:37 <|R> the 15 i heard... but it's not supposed to work in canada Dec 10 19:04:46 <|R> it wasn't on the list and it's not supposed to be added Dec 10 19:05:03 Oh well. Dec 10 19:05:17 Tak: rgvkb package? Dec 10 19:05:18 Forget what I said about the nseries site too. It's not in the product listings O_O Dec 10 19:05:24 <|R> hehe :) Dec 10 19:05:50 i know 2 people that picked up the n810 from tiger direct while that had that limited run Dec 10 19:06:08 eh? Dec 10 19:06:21 Heh, a Nokia "flagship" store is coming to London. Dec 10 19:07:33 14:43 < Tak> speaking of which, would anybody like to test the rgvkb package Dec 10 19:07:44 ah Dec 10 19:07:49 rubygame VKB. Dec 10 19:07:52 yes, would you like to? Dec 10 19:07:57 bleh no Dec 10 19:08:00 sorry Dec 10 19:08:01 Heh Dec 10 19:08:22 * alterego forces Ruby down pupnik_ 's throat. Dec 10 19:08:25 You will take it! Dec 10 19:08:50 aww, isn't the thought of a sdl-based vkb tempting? Dec 10 19:09:20 Tak, I can't even persuade people with hildon desktop plugins :) Dec 10 19:09:45 sure, but hildon desktop plugins already exist in c ;-) Dec 10 19:09:52 sdl virtual keyboard? sounds neat. Might be fun to do in pygame. Dec 10 19:10:10 no, it mightn't Dec 10 19:10:15 haha Dec 10 19:10:26 whyn't not'nt? Dec 10 19:10:41 Python is boring. Everyone uses Python. Dec 10 19:10:43 notn't :P Dec 10 19:11:44 So, let me get this straight, you use Ruby because Python is too popular? Dec 10 19:12:18 Sure, isn't that why anyone learns a programming language? Dec 10 19:12:32 As soon as a language gets popular it gets crap. Just look at C++ and Java .. Dec 10 19:13:11 visual basic =x Dec 10 19:13:19 some languages get crap before they get popular :) Dec 10 19:13:27 indeed Dec 10 19:13:45 * mgedmin feeds Python a chicken Dec 10 19:14:10 Heehee Dec 10 19:14:29 It's probably related to the popular girls in high school being stupid too. Dec 10 19:17:20 * czr peeks Dec 10 19:17:28 I guess the training stuff wasn't published today? Dec 10 19:17:46 I thought that happened last week? Dec 10 19:18:01 (Could have sworn I saw it online) Dec 10 19:18:07 hmm. you did? Dec 10 19:18:21 Maybe .. Dec 10 19:18:24 * alterego checks Dec 10 19:21:00 That's interesting .. Dec 10 19:21:18 The "training" section is blocked. But I could have sworn I navigated there a few days ago. Dec 10 19:21:24 Someone posted a link here that I followed. Dec 10 19:21:51 I could be mistaken though :) Dec 10 19:21:55 I get distracted easily. Dec 10 19:23:17 i am finding for business applications that have been developed on top of maemo... Dec 10 19:24:05 glaubervinicius, what kind of business apps. Have you checked the maemo application catalog. Most apps can be found there. Dec 10 19:25:06 yes... i have checked the catalog... but most of the applications are related to office (doc, spreadsheets, presentations, dict, etc.).. Dec 10 19:25:56 i am finding for applications that have been used for enterprises in order to automate their business processes Dec 10 19:26:55 glaubervinicius, if you've not found anything they don't exist. Dec 10 19:27:09 It's a little specialized for such a small platform. Dec 10 19:27:12 It helps if you're looking for something specific. Dec 10 19:27:52 alterego, hmm. it should appear somewhere there under the training link when it's ready Dec 10 19:27:54 I guess Dec 10 19:28:01 but I'm beyond caring. my flight leaves in some hours :-) Dec 10 19:28:06 :) Dec 10 19:28:14 Yeah, have a few beers and relax :) Dec 10 19:28:36 How did you get on with pygtk? Dec 10 19:28:48 it was fun actually Dec 10 19:29:07 I took some examples and rewrote them into more pythonic form Dec 10 19:29:09 Yeah, it's nice doing Gtk in high level languages. Dec 10 19:29:10 <|R> anyone from europe here came to north america and had trouble connecting to APs on channel 10-11 ? :P Dec 10 19:29:40 |R, no, only 12 + 13 :P Dec 10 19:29:47 <|R> ;) Dec 10 19:30:01 * czr always uses channel 16, it's always available Dec 10 19:30:17 Hah Dec 10 19:30:29 <|R> czr but stll, conflicts with 14 from japan :P Dec 10 19:30:49 the japanese are wrong and can be ignored! Dec 10 19:30:53 * czr shakes fist Dec 10 19:31:19 <|R> hehe Dec 10 19:31:43 Hah Dec 10 19:39:42 czr, been working on my hildon desktop plugin code. I've got it to display an error dialog when it breaks. As opposed to crashing the entire desktop and causing it to restart. Or the other choice, doing absolutely nothing :) Dec 10 19:39:53 Both of which are natively supported by the Python hildon desktop loader. ^_^ Dec 10 19:40:17 I just decided it was time I stopped walking in Python's shadow and came out into the open ;) Dec 10 19:40:19 or maybe it's the SDK ;-) Dec 10 19:40:26 SDK, device .. Whatever :P Dec 10 19:40:35 * czr opens the window for alterego to go out into the open through Dec 10 19:40:41 Hah Dec 10 19:40:48 see the world :-) Dec 10 19:40:50 * alterego tries to remember what floor we're on. Dec 10 19:41:00 I think maemo is in the basement. Dec 10 19:41:02 it an unimportant variable Dec 10 19:41:09 wrong. maemo is where it belongs Dec 10 19:41:16 basement even :-) Dec 10 19:41:32 Hah Dec 10 19:41:57 I'm working on a more advanced version now. It'll display a full stack trace. Dec 10 19:44:42 since universe started? Dec 10 19:45:03 As far as the Ruby interpreter is concerned .. Sure .. :) Dec 10 19:45:21 it isn't "full stack trace" then. Dec 10 19:46:53 I'll leave that feature for the anal python devs. Dec 10 19:47:18 It's glorious writing crap code that _doesn't_ break the system and tells you why it's not working :) Dec 10 19:47:29 The plugin developer doesn't even have to worry about it ^_^ Dec 10 19:49:26 alterego: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=229&aid=1736&group_id=40 Dec 10 19:50:02 Heh Dec 10 19:50:08 That's such bs. Dec 10 19:50:27 That plugin was developed as an _EXAMPLE_ by rocha. Dec 10 19:50:43 With that attitude you'll never get hildon-desktop support in pymaemo .. Dec 10 19:50:53 clear Dec 10 19:51:23 You should pick up ruby :P Dec 10 19:51:41 alterego: lol Dec 10 19:51:53 I'm sorry, I know you must be gettin' pretty frustrated by now. I would be .. Dec 10 19:52:04 i'm ... Dec 10 19:52:12 i ve just answered Dec 10 19:52:21 as you said .. Dec 10 19:52:29 Heh Dec 10 19:52:53 I wrestled with the ruby hildon-desktop loader for about a week. Dec 10 19:53:06 hey all, has anyone found a fix for the soft poweroff option within the new release (OS 2008)? Dec 10 19:53:11 Probably spent 24 hours in total on that one 220 line file. Dec 10 19:53:45 I ended up rewriting it 2 times. The 3rd version just started working miraculously ^_^ Dec 10 19:53:48 spend 24h to compile already existing binding Dec 10 19:53:56 Oh my Dec 10 19:54:02 Does anyone know when the official os2008 will be released? Dec 10 19:54:06 and still doesn't work Dec 10 19:54:28 in 2008? Dec 10 19:54:31 i think i should rewrite it myself ... Dec 10 19:54:32 or in the year 2000? Dec 10 19:54:55 I'd help you but .. I don't have python installed in my SDK and I'd personally prefer to keep it that way. Nothing against Python, it's just not my forte anymore. Dec 10 19:56:00 khertan, have you found _any_ error messages when you start af-sb-init or attempt to load the plugin? Dec 10 19:56:21 If the loader is broken you should get an "unknown plugin type: python" Dec 10 19:56:36 only cannot load "homememory" module Dec 10 19:56:50 home memory module .. Dec 10 19:57:01 it s my module Dec 10 19:57:06 That's very strange. And this is the _basic_ example python plugin? Dec 10 19:57:13 yes Dec 10 19:57:20 a gtk.Button() Dec 10 19:57:24 and that all Dec 10 19:57:35 Hrm .. Never seen that before. Dec 10 19:58:09 I could be wrong. But I'm sure that's python Dec 10 19:58:45 In fact, that's obviously pymaemo .. Dec 10 19:59:03 i think there is a problem in the loader Dec 10 19:59:23 So the problem there is in the dependencies. Either the plugin loader has a module it requires that isn't in your load path. Or the example plugin does. Dec 10 20:00:36 * alterego takes a break and looks at the python loader code for khertan. Dec 10 20:00:43 thanks Dec 10 20:00:44 I probably know this system better than rocha by now ;) Dec 10 20:02:19 Well, I see where the error is being generated./ Dec 10 20:04:56 alterego: great Dec 10 20:09:03 arg my vmware network doesn't work anymore Dec 10 20:09:20 you upgraded it into noware network Dec 10 20:09:29 your license for packet bits has run out of bits Dec 10 20:10:00 it s just the wmware player ... on linux Dec 10 20:13:34 "Just for the record. I asked Nokia/Maemo team and they told me the day we will finally be able to use our codes is expected to be the 15 of december." - epertinez on ITT Dec 10 20:13:34 khertan, is that the only error you get? Dec 10 20:13:55 Saturday? That's strange .. Dec 10 20:14:03 Mon Dec 10 20:13:10 UTC 2007 Dec 10 20:14:16 Maybe they're counting for time zones. Dec 10 20:14:24 I presumed it'd all be done on the 14th (friday) Dec 10 20:14:58 This loader code isn't pretty .. Dec 10 20:15:27 He first tests that the module he wants to load has not been loaded if (pModule == NULL) Dec 10 20:15:42 Then after that, he seems to test if it's not NULL. Dec 10 20:15:53 Then there's an else clause that spurts that error message. Dec 10 20:18:09 Oh, actually that kind of makes sense :/ Dec 10 20:18:45 khertan, have you tried putting your module in pythons standard library path? Dec 10 20:19:03 g_path_get_basename (module_file) Dec 10 20:19:14 so we can't provide module path Dec 10 20:19:25 it should be in the standart library path ... Dec 10 20:19:28 Exactly. Dec 10 20:19:40 That's f*ck'd up really. Dec 10 20:19:43 if i understand it should be : /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/ Dec 10 20:19:51 i ve tryed this Dec 10 20:19:51 No Dec 10 20:19:55 no ? Dec 10 20:19:55 Not in there. Dec 10 20:20:07 In one of pythons standard search directories. Dec 10 20:20:09 where to ? Dec 10 20:20:26 Like /usr/lib/python/*/ .. Dec 10 20:20:35 Probably the sitedir would be best. Dec 10 20:22:37 i m trying this Dec 10 20:23:43 I think there's a bug in his loader. It's completely ignoring file location in the keyfile (.desktop file). Dec 10 20:24:02 He seems to rely on the file being in pythons load path. Dec 10 20:25:09 I am interested in using Ekiga on my N800... Dec 10 20:25:25 did you try the built in SIP? Dec 10 20:27:02 it s now in the package-site ... Dec 10 20:27:21 in ipython i can import it directly with : import homememory Dec 10 20:27:29 but still don't work Dec 10 20:27:30 Okay Dec 10 20:27:41 Have you restarted the desktop? Dec 10 20:27:47 af-sb-init.sh restart? Dec 10 20:28:12 You're still under X86 target right? Because don't expect _anything_ to work in the armel target .. Dec 10 20:28:36 i'm on the device Dec 10 20:28:44 as i m now at home Dec 10 20:29:15 and that network doesn t seem to work in my maemo vmware image Dec 10 20:29:38 (sysklogd installed :) ) Dec 10 20:31:03 Heh Dec 10 20:34:01 * czr plays with his new latex toys Dec 10 20:34:44 Kinky Dec 10 20:34:48 czr: let me guess: http://phonefingers.com/ Dec 10 20:34:58 the finger condome for use with touch screens ;) Dec 10 20:34:58 You know, I still haven't found a decent kit bag :( Dec 10 20:35:27 Sho_, heh. that looks evil :-) Dec 10 20:35:29 and no. Dec 10 20:35:40 czr > this latex one ? http://www.sex-toys.fr/vibromasseurs/vibromasseurs-factory/vibromasseur-dinky-digger-watermelon-11035.html Dec 10 20:35:43 ;) Dec 10 20:36:16 * Sho_ wants that discount code to work and rattles at the gates of the Nokia online store, torch and pitchfork in hand Dec 10 20:36:23 (wait, that would require three arms ..) Dec 10 20:36:43 heh khertan. no Dec 10 20:36:46 Sho_, you must be pretty cold and lonely :P Dec 10 20:36:53 you people should definitely get out more often :-) Dec 10 20:37:04 alterego: Gadget withdrawal :) Dec 10 20:37:21 You'd have to have owned one to have withdrawal :P Dec 10 20:37:31 I think you've got kiddie christmas indrawal. Dec 10 20:37:41 alterego: I did have an N800 Dec 10 20:37:56 * Tak perks at mention of latex toys Dec 10 20:38:08 Not a Christian, so I suppose it would be live-long withdrawal, which might indeed have severe effects Dec 10 20:39:03 live-long reminds me of a cigarette pack I once bought in HK Dec 10 20:39:24 bright yellow pack, with a very old man with a very long beard on it. "long life" was the brand. Dec 10 20:39:36 Very subtle ;) Dec 10 20:39:51 I thought it was somehow ironic. but .. in a country where the same company makes cigarettes, sweat clothes and ping pong tables, one can't go wrong. Dec 10 20:40:19 Wow, they must be a huge monopoly. :) Dec 10 20:40:33 in china everything is so big and so small Dec 10 20:40:42 although to understand that sentence you'd have to live in the country for a while. Dec 10 20:41:35 http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china17_b.jpg Dec 10 20:42:12 objects big, spaces small :P Dec 10 20:42:31 http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china34_a.jpg Dec 10 20:42:37 probably should stop pasting those links :-) Dec 10 20:42:44 there are plenty more of those where those two came from :-) Dec 10 20:42:54 czr: Is it ok if I hate life, but still don't pick the flowers? Dec 10 20:43:09 "ASS WORLD" could be a pack-animal boutique, of course Dec 10 20:43:10 Tak, you could always argue with the ground keepers Dec 10 20:43:19 most likely it would be an old cranky woman Dec 10 20:43:22 lol Dec 10 20:43:25 and you mostly lose arguments with those Dec 10 20:43:49 This is a simplified interface to PyImport_ImportModuleEx() below, leaving the globals and locals arguments set to NULL. When the name argument contains a dot (when it specifies a submodule of a package), the fromlist argument is set to the list ['*'] so that the return value is the named module rather than the top-level package containing it as would otherwise be the case. (Unfortunately, this has an additional side effect wh Dec 10 20:43:49 en name in fact specifies a subpackage instead of a submodule: the submodules specified in the package's __all__ variable are loaded.) Return a new reference to the imported module, or NULL with an exception set on failure. Before Python 2.4, the module may still be created in the failure case -- examine sys.modules to find out. Starting with Python 2.4, a failing import of a module no longer leaves the module in sys.modules. Dec 10 20:43:49 Changed in version 2.4: failing imports remove incomplete module objects. Dec 10 20:43:50 perhaps if I enrage her enough, she will divorce me from my life Dec 10 20:43:53 oups .... sorry Dec 10 20:44:07 * czr removes the V-key from khertan's keyboard Dec 10 20:44:19 Tak, or probably feng shui you away Dec 10 20:44:22 heh ... it s not a v-key :) Dec 10 20:44:24 * Sho_ suggests using a client that prevents such incidents Dec 10 20:44:33 third click :) Dec 10 20:44:45 * czr removes randomly keys from khertan's keyboard until mistakes don't happen Dec 10 20:44:53 khertan, got it working yet? Dec 10 20:44:55 (still not a key) Dec 10 20:45:04 alterego: not at all :) Dec 10 20:45:14 she will position me so as to be aesthetically pleasing and promote qi flow? Dec 10 20:45:19 Meh Dec 10 20:45:37 khertan, well, it looks like it adds hildondesktoplibdir to the include path. Dec 10 20:45:38 Tak, old ladies like this one: http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china54_a.jpg Dec 10 20:45:43 Something I presume is defined in the makoefile. Dec 10 20:45:54 Tak, yes. or rather in your case position you so that you don't inhibit qi flow :-) Dec 10 20:46:48 alterego: hildondesktoplibdir Dec 10 20:47:03 Yeah Dec 10 20:47:11 I inhibit qi flow regardless of position Dec 10 20:47:11 Probably /usr/lib/hildon-desktop :) Dec 10 20:47:22 maybe the best picture to describe "everything is so large and small": http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/shanghai_china20_c.jpg Dec 10 20:47:26 hildonpluginloaderlib_LTLIBRARIES = libpythonpluginloader.la Dec 10 20:48:12 alterego: and it doesn't work too in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop ... Dec 10 20:48:22 khertan, that was a guess .. Dec 10 20:48:57 It's probably /usr/lib/hildon-home .. Dec 10 20:49:38 tryed too :) Dec 10 20:49:42 other idea ? Dec 10 20:49:52 Actually, you're doing status bar applets so that'd be /usr/lib/hildon-status-bar Dec 10 20:50:20 i'm not doing status bar applets :) Dec 10 20:50:29 not yet :) Dec 10 20:50:45 Oh, right. Dec 10 20:52:13 khertan, well. I can't really do anymore. Short of installing python and having ago myself. But I don't know python anymore so I'm not really prepared to learn it again :P Dec 10 20:52:49 after copying it everywhere i get now : Could not initialize Python module Dec 10 20:53:04 khertan, I'll check. Dec 10 20:53:19 so : PyImport_ImportModule (module_name); fails Dec 10 20:53:52 And what came before that. Dec 10 20:54:21 You should edit the loader to take absolute paths .. Dec 10 20:55:43 Or get rocha to release a flippin' deb .. Dec 10 20:55:52 With proper working examples ;) Dec 10 20:56:15 is pymaemo/python on 2008 in working order btw? Dec 10 20:56:32 I mean, what are the chances that the whole sdk will break when using it? Dec 10 20:56:36 or the device(s) Dec 10 20:57:05 pymaemo work great on os2008 Dec 10 20:57:09 czr, very little. Unless yo uwant to write hildon desktop plugins ;) Dec 10 20:57:13 there is a release for it Dec 10 20:57:47 hmm. maybe I should take it for a spin at some point Dec 10 20:57:48 Or get rocha to release a flippin' deb > i think i should better do it myself if i want this work ... Dec 10 20:57:57 * czr nods Dec 10 20:58:05 Hah Dec 10 20:58:09 I'm planning to do some simple way of constructing arch-indep debs at some point Dec 10 21:00:34 has anyone gotten the radio app working on the 810? It doesn't error, but I don't find any radio stations, either Dec 10 21:00:46 dragorn, works fine for me. Dec 10 21:00:46 did you plug in headphones? Dec 10 21:00:52 Vulcanis: yup Dec 10 21:00:56 Hm. Dec 10 21:00:59 alterego: k Dec 10 21:01:10 I'll chalk it up to "user error" and look at it more seriously later then Dec 10 21:01:33 * alterego contemplates how to make a standard ruby error mechanism for maemo. Dec 10 21:01:55 I should be able to create a ruby daemon at some point. But that's a bit of work .. Dec 10 21:01:59 Does the Ekiga port work well on N800? I bought 20$ of minutes from a company which is not Skype or Gizmo, and I don't know a way to configure their SIP server in those two applications. Dec 10 21:02:37 please, a turn-offable daemon Dec 10 21:02:57 alterego: i'm looking at ruby :) it very similar to python Dec 10 21:03:06 s/it/it's Dec 10 21:03:12 Yes, it's a lot like Python in many ways. Dec 10 21:03:22 except it doesn't fight you every step of the way Dec 10 21:03:30 * alterego chuckles. Dec 10 21:03:36 alterego: have you looked at a ruby 1.9 port yet? Dec 10 21:05:05 except it doesn't fight you every step of the way ??? Dec 10 21:06:40 # en Ruby Dec 10 21:06:40 if 0 Dec 10 21:06:40 puts "0 est vrai/true" Dec 10 21:06:40 else Dec 10 21:06:40 puts "0 est faux/false" Dec 10 21:06:42 end Dec 10 21:06:45 ouch ... this suck ! Dec 10 21:07:04 ? Dec 10 21:07:19 the result is "0 est vrai/true" Dec 10 21:07:43 khertan, should it be if 0 .. puts is false ,, else puts is true? Dec 10 21:08:24 puts('0 is ' + 0 ? 'true' : 'false') Dec 10 21:09:38 ... with all language if 0 doesn t enter in the if condition Dec 10 21:09:55 it ll be annoying and source of many error Dec 10 21:10:53 dragorn, yes. It's in the pipes. Dec 10 21:11:39 http://youtube.com/watch?v=CII2crrTEe0 new one for me - streaming media server Linux MCE with nokia 770 client Dec 10 21:11:43 alterego: Looking forwards to it. I find 1.8 too slow to use for large apps (ie, msf) but I read some promising benchmarks on 1.9 Dec 10 21:11:45 What's wrong with 0 being evaluated to true? Dec 10 21:12:03 dragorn, msf? Dec 10 21:12:03 it's a bit unconventional Dec 10 21:12:09 alterego: metasploit Dec 10 21:12:17 Oh, it's not "C". Dec 10 21:12:17 alterego: it s unconventional and different from many language Dec 10 21:12:26 Give a shit .. Dec 10 21:12:30 0 is a value. Dec 10 21:12:39 and when you switch many times a day ... it should be source of many errors :) Dec 10 21:12:41 Nil is not a value Dec 10 21:12:45 and false is false Dec 10 21:12:48 switch language Dec 10 21:12:49 that is an important concept and I hope other languages take it in. Dec 10 21:12:53 Doesn't with me. Dec 10 21:13:05 I use C and Ruby all the time and I've never had that problem Dec 10 21:13:19 anyway... it s seem s a interesting language Dec 10 21:13:44 I've run into that before, I use primarily C and ruby Dec 10 21:14:05 if I've been doing a lot of C, sometimes I expect 0 to be false in ruby ... but, generally, ruby's model is consistent for ruby Dec 10 21:14:08 HOLY CRAP THAT'S A BIG FISH Dec 10 21:14:16 Really, when using C you should use 'FALSE' and 'NULL' you should rely on '0' as an immediate value in a test. ever .. Dec 10 21:14:28 * sp3000 clicks on the ogg-support "screenshot" instead of the title Dec 10 21:14:35 oh duh, that's not streaming, it's a remote control for a PC media center Dec 10 21:14:37 s/should/shouldn't/ Dec 10 21:14:37 alterego meant: Really, when using C you shouldn't use 'FALSE' and 'NULL' you should rely on '0' as an immediate value in a test. ever .. Dec 10 21:14:38 I'm in line with alterego Dec 10 21:14:41 alterego: right Dec 10 21:14:51 Shut up infotwat Dec 10 21:15:10 Bloody substituted the wrong should ;) Dec 10 21:15:15 so, what is this, Monkey_ was booted and someone reinserted a different annoying infobot? Dec 10 21:15:29 infobot has been around as long as Monkey I believe. Dec 10 21:15:33 alterego: so maybe i should try ruby by pratice ... :) hildondesktop binding is available ? :) Dec 10 21:15:42 khertan, yup Dec 10 21:15:43 oh, monkey just traditionally had the jump on annoying? Dec 10 21:15:52 I'll upload the latest packages. Hang on ;) Dec 10 21:16:25 alterego: do u know good tuto on ruby for people having experiences with other language ? Dec 10 21:17:17 khertan, read "programming ruby" by the pragmatic programmers. An older version is available online so just google and you shall find. Dec 10 21:19:33 * alterego burns off a debian install cd. Dec 10 21:19:43 Going to the datacenter tomorrow to reinstall a server .. Manually. Dec 10 21:19:54 Why my employer couldn't opt for KVM access I don't know O_O Dec 10 21:20:10 I have to drive, to London, at peak traffic times -_- Dec 10 21:21:57 * czr will visit alterego one of these days Dec 10 21:22:14 i must go on Dec 10 21:22:15 bye Dec 10 21:22:22 and thanks alterego for your help Dec 10 21:22:31 khertan, s/i/my heart/. Dec 10 21:22:38 otherwise it doesn't quite work. Dec 10 21:22:55 :) Dec 10 21:23:17 Hah Dec 10 21:23:22 * czr hides couple of celine dion CDs in khertan's backpocket Dec 10 21:23:28 * alterego chuckles. Dec 10 21:24:01 * alterego phones khertan's girlfriend and secretly tells her to check his back pockets when he gets home. Dec 10 21:24:10 hmm. I wonder. if a flight is scheduled to depart at 0615, at what time is the check-in desk open? :-) Dec 10 21:24:42 secretly tell: "I have a secret and I won't tell it to you, but if you guess enough times, you might get it right"? Dec 10 21:24:52 similar to ferenc's "working silently" :-) Dec 10 21:25:05 ninja-like. Dec 10 21:25:51 I think I'm gonna have to run to the shops in a minute. Dec 10 21:25:56 (have run out of tobacco) Dec 10 21:27:03 <||cw> people still use check-in desks? Dec 10 21:27:15 ||cw, some people do Dec 10 21:27:23 <||cw> i guess if there's a problem.... Dec 10 21:27:27 indeed Dec 10 21:27:37 and this flight is complicated. have two switches and going to the us Dec 10 21:27:53 http://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/imagedump/demotivational_posters/ninjas.jpg Dec 10 21:28:02 so I prefer to do it the old-school way. even with electronic check-in I'd still have to drop the bags and fill in the US-required travel information blah Dec 10 21:28:15 heh suihkulokki Dec 10 21:28:28 <||cw> they give you the form on the plane, you can fill it out before you get tot he gate Dec 10 21:28:52 not that travel visa Dec 10 21:28:59 but the stuff that they record in the databases Dec 10 21:29:10 like addresses where you're going to stay, etc, etc. Dec 10 21:29:22 <||cw> yes, they give that to you on the plane Dec 10 21:29:23 all the "security theater" checks make boarding such a pain in the ass these days Dec 10 21:29:30 ||cw, they haven't so far. /me shrugs Dec 10 21:29:39 * czr agrees with suihkulokki Dec 10 21:29:54 it was much nicer before all the crap. one could actually travel quite fast with planes Dec 10 21:30:06 <||cw> I went to france last year, they gave us the forms before landing Dec 10 21:30:11 <||cw> maybe just AA does it Dec 10 21:30:22 ||cw, maybe it works the other way around you see Dec 10 21:30:27 EU doesn't require all that info. Dec 10 21:30:28 US does. Dec 10 21:30:38 cause otherwise terrorists would invade the country. Dec 10 21:30:39 <||cw> getting into france was MUCH easier than getting back home though Dec 10 21:30:43 but now the form will stop them. Dec 10 21:31:03 <||cw> IIRC, I had to fill out the same form 15 years ago Dec 10 21:31:10 that was for visa. Dec 10 21:31:12 <||cw> but I didn't have to take my shoes off Dec 10 21:31:15 heh Dec 10 21:31:18 <||cw> no, this was upon landing Dec 10 21:31:24 <||cw> declarations and such Dec 10 21:31:30 Security is such a joke. Dec 10 21:31:30 that's customs then Dec 10 21:31:41 If somebody wants to hijack a plane, they're going to hijack a plane. Dec 10 21:31:42 <||cw> that's what you said, customs Dec 10 21:31:57 If they want to keep that from happening, they're gonna have to make everybody fly naked. Dec 10 21:31:59 ||cw, no. we also have to fill additional paper thingy Dec 10 21:32:12 ||cw, homeland security wants to know who people are travelling to while in the US Dec 10 21:32:21 so one has to write addresses and all that Dec 10 21:32:38 GeneralAntilles, and require proper body searches too Dec 10 21:32:44 <||cw> GeneralAntilles: close, just scatter-gather x-ray machines so that you appear naked on the screen Dec 10 21:34:14 evening all Dec 10 21:34:26 * czr bows to lardman Dec 10 21:34:28 evening master Dec 10 21:34:40 czr: what have I done today..... :) Dec 10 21:35:05 I haven't reached my bowing-quota this week. so I'm somewhat late :-) Dec 10 21:35:35 ah, bow away then, and if you know anything about the innards of Tremor I'll return the bows Dec 10 21:35:56 * czr keeps the bowing process without any feedback paths Dec 10 21:35:59 sorry no.. Dec 10 21:36:33 http://maemo.pastebin.com/m18322f0c for anyone who's interested, top one's the DSP, bottom one's my x86_64 machine, pretty much the same code Dec 10 21:37:04 * lardman has to work out why the two don't do the same thing Dec 10 21:37:42 seems that the call in sync_out behaves differently Dec 10 21:37:56 the first ogg_sync_pageseek seems to work identically, although it doesn't print out everything out Dec 10 21:38:15 "cmp64_int(boundary,0)!=0" ? Dec 10 21:38:27 maybe the input stream is not aligned enough for the code to work properly on it? Dec 10 21:38:47 although I have hard time believing that should matter, but I don't know the innards of ogg or arm for that matter Dec 10 21:38:52 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422887272477313460&hl=en wowwwww linux media center edition Dec 10 21:40:46 czr hides couple of celine dion CDs in khertan's backpocket > hopefully she don't like his music ! Dec 10 21:41:09 heh Dec 10 21:41:19 I'm sure she's used to constructive critisism :-) Dec 10 21:41:57 <|R> http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlock-Nokia-810-Phone-Today-NO-TOOLS-REQUIRED_W0QQitemZ290186613720QQihZ019QQcategoryZ64355QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem Dec 10 21:41:59 <|R> hahaha Dec 10 21:42:24 mouarf Dec 10 21:42:37 lol what the hell Dec 10 21:42:38 czr: I'll have to add some more output comments to the DSP code and see if I can work out where it diverges Dec 10 21:42:54 <|R> honest! no tools required! hahaha Dec 10 21:43:05 |R, they have the wrong picture there, nokia 810 looks like this: http://www.nokia.fi/NOKIA_FINLAND_50/Find_and_Compare/810/810_main.jpg Dec 10 21:43:37 <|R> that's a remote-phone? :P Dec 10 21:44:03 lardman, probably some code that "checks" for parameters when the routine is entered Dec 10 21:44:42 lardman, you could also try printing out the last 15 bits of pointers to check their alignments (if they differ), but I could completely wrong of course as well :-) Dec 10 21:46:00 lardman: It looks like it tries to parse the first page, finds that it has no bytes buffered, and on x86_64, reads in 1024 bytes, and on the DSP doesn't even try to read any bytes. Dec 10 21:46:50 Look at, e.g., vorbisfile.c:122 Dec 10 21:46:53 hello Dec 10 21:47:06 has anyone here ordered an n810 from provantage.com? Dec 10 21:50:53 no, though I've ordered a few things in the past years from provantage and never gotten screwed Dec 10 21:51:18 dragorn: well that's good i guess Dec 10 21:51:26 they keep pushing back the shipping date :\ Dec 10 21:52:16 I got mine at the nokia store in nyc, and there were people from 2 or 3 other stores in the area in there talking to the nokia people about when they might get more in Dec 10 21:52:25 they're pretty hard to get Dec 10 21:53:36 maybe they're too busy fixing all my reported bugs in the SDK? Dec 10 21:53:38 * czr hides & runs Dec 10 21:54:44 derf: ok, let me take a look at my reading code Dec 10 21:55:58 dragorn: that's disheartening :( Dec 10 21:56:12 czr, you hide and run quite often Dec 10 21:56:20 czr, is it some kind of assassin excercise for you? Dec 10 21:56:36 Hello Dec 10 22:00:45 derf: Is this an issue?: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071210-nokia-wants-w3c-to-remove-out-ogg-from-upcoming-html5-standard.html Dec 10 22:01:13 It's certainly an "issue". Dec 10 22:02:24 It made /. and has been posted in here 5 or 6 times already. Dec 10 22:04:32 derf, master of understatement Dec 10 22:04:43 within an order of magnitude of 5 or 6, anyway ;-) Dec 10 22:05:50 Heh Dec 10 22:05:53 inz, yes Dec 10 22:06:03 inz, but I can't tell you any more details Dec 10 22:06:05 I'm glad to see the rest of the world finally found out about it, but the amount of stupid in that comment thread makes baby kittens cry. Dec 10 22:06:18 inz, you'd have to sign the NDA to hear more. with your blood. all of it. Dec 10 22:06:30 (yes, it's a large NDA) Dec 10 22:06:34 I didn't read the /. thread, because I don't read /. Dec 10 22:06:50 (/. free for 6 years, 30 days). Dec 10 22:06:52 czr, image 1st, SDK later ;) Dec 10 22:06:56 Maybe next year ;) Dec 10 22:07:20 * czr whispers to alterego smt about "see if I care" smt. Dec 10 22:07:28 :D Dec 10 22:07:44 I'm tired, but I've got my nicotine fix. Dec 10 22:07:51 ah, you came back? Dec 10 22:07:59 Yup Dec 10 22:08:03 I'm quick I know :) Dec 10 22:08:10 It's too cold to walk slow. Dec 10 22:08:11 czr, do I need to sign all of the NDA or with all my blood? Dec 10 22:08:19 Though, there was a queue .. Dec 10 22:08:30 czr, event large NDAs usually take only one signature Dec 10 22:09:01 inz, with all of your blood. Dec 10 22:09:05 and 200,000 initials Dec 10 22:09:29 I think the initials thingy is something more american Dec 10 22:09:34 that never quite caught on here. Dec 10 22:09:43 at least not in finland Dec 10 22:10:00 I have trouble explaining what "marking initials" means when people sign RH NDAs Dec 10 22:10:08 really? Dec 10 22:10:12 * czr nods Dec 10 22:10:15 Red Hat? Dec 10 22:10:16 that's good to hear Dec 10 22:10:18 * czr nods Dec 10 22:10:19 because it SUCKS Dec 10 22:10:37 I can't remember what the last long document I had to sign was, but I had to initial every freaking page Dec 10 22:10:38 Red Hat have NDA's? That's interesting. Dec 10 22:10:41 it SUCKED Dec 10 22:10:42 alterego, of course. Dec 10 22:11:05 elb, you felt dirty all over after signing it? Dec 10 22:11:05 derf: Ah, my PC crashed this arvo, lost all my backlog for the day Dec 10 22:11:07 possibly immigration paperwork Dec 10 22:11:17 I know that feeling. I'm covered with the legaleze foo of many a company Dec 10 22:11:19 Well, I don't really like Red Hat, though they've done a lot of good work for the OSS movement. Dec 10 22:11:19 czr: well, I don't generally sign NDAs, per se Dec 10 22:11:25 no amount of showering will make me clean anymore. Dec 10 22:11:28 but financial and etc. documents Dec 10 22:11:58 I'm not even allowed to talk about my NDA's .. Dec 10 22:12:01 Shit .. Dec 10 22:12:02 alterego, they also pay people to work on the problems that no one wants to work on Dec 10 22:12:14 czr, really? What kind of problems? :D Dec 10 22:12:16 alterego, which is why things eventually get fixed Dec 10 22:12:18 * alterego likes problems. Dec 10 22:12:28 documentation, kernel bugs, gtk, all that Dec 10 22:12:36 Cool. Dec 10 22:12:41 I meant of course that they employ people :-) Dec 10 22:12:47 not that they per for each bug fixed. Dec 10 22:12:54 +pay Dec 10 22:12:55 Hah Dec 10 22:13:07 They should. I think a lot more bugs would get fixed ^_^ Dec 10 22:13:16 I doubt it Dec 10 22:13:42 unless we're talking about large amounts of money ala google. Dec 10 22:15:26 I'd fix bugs for a nominal fee. Dec 10 22:15:37 Though, I guess it depends on the size of the bug .. Dec 10 22:15:53 If you're talking about rewriting the whole driver system in the kernel .. Well .. Fuck that. Dec 10 22:16:24 you might do it if you found it interesting though Dec 10 22:16:31 Yes, there is that. Dec 10 22:16:37 And no doubt I would find it interesting :) Dec 10 22:16:38 and had a lot of time on your hands.... :) Dec 10 22:16:45 Good luck getting the kernel to take it. Dec 10 22:17:15 Red Hat already paid Monty to rewrite the USB scheduler for them, but they didn't want it. Dec 10 22:17:27 alterego, but how would you know whether a given bug is easy or hard to fix and what price to set to it? :-) Dec 10 22:17:40 I'd audit it. Dec 10 22:17:43 first .. Dec 10 22:17:52 you must be a good auditor ;-) Dec 10 22:17:57 derf: yes, there is tha Dec 10 22:18:06 a lot of the more evil bugs look pretty trivial at start Dec 10 22:18:09 I'm good at guessing if that's what you mean ;) Dec 10 22:18:18 alterego, yes. the art of guesstimation Dec 10 22:18:45 I really hate that when I need to estimate the required hours/effort to achieve something which I have never done before Dec 10 22:18:49 I usually guess, then say, yeah x plus a month or add a month. Dec 10 22:18:58 and obviously working on stuff that I've already done before is too boring so.. Dec 10 22:18:59 Yeah, I get that alot. Dec 10 22:19:22 altergo: about an hour + a month or so :) Dec 10 22:19:31 My strategy was always to just make up something arbitrary, and multiply it by 8. Dec 10 22:19:42 Hah Dec 10 22:19:50 alterego: sorry for the typo Dec 10 22:20:04 Hah Dec 10 22:21:57 derf, I've used 9 Dec 10 22:22:19 * 3 because I know it will take 3 times the time it should, and even then, projects tend to last 3 times longer. so 3 * 3 = 9. :-) Dec 10 22:22:38 ah the good old rule of 3 Dec 10 22:23:39 * czr nods Dec 10 22:23:49 best projects have no deadlines Dec 10 22:23:54 * czr really likes to work on those Dec 10 22:23:57 czr, the bounties could be given to lowest bidder ;) Dec 10 22:24:14 inz, don't divulge trade secrets! Dec 10 22:24:54 Sorry, did I ruineds your evvil plan? Dec 10 22:25:08 inz, heh. no. maybe N's evil plan :-) Dec 10 22:25:18 my plan is so evil, even I cannot ruin it. Dec 10 22:25:33 uh oh, evil plans? Dec 10 22:27:30 czr, ooh, I need an idiot-proof evvil plan too! Dec 10 22:27:40 * alterego chuckles Dec 10 22:28:11 inz, indeed Dec 10 22:28:31 if the plan is evil beyond comprehension, it cannot be ruined, since no one can understand it Dec 10 22:29:08 can I be the judge? Dec 10 22:29:29 penguinbait, that would be too easy Dec 10 22:30:18 ok, I just used paypal to order an ACME evil plan kit Dec 10 22:30:27 I'm onboard! Dec 10 22:30:30 heh Dec 10 22:30:30 heh Dec 10 22:30:36 the ACME one SUCKS! Dec 10 22:30:42 they ship Windows ME. Dec 10 22:30:51 not nearly evil enough plan. Dec 10 22:31:02 no wonder the cyote never had a chance Dec 10 22:31:24 Hello Dec 10 22:31:37 Does anyone here have Minimo running? Dec 10 22:31:57 What would be the point? Dec 10 22:31:58 Spastic, something wrong with microb? Dec 10 22:32:26 Sorry, what is microb?\ Dec 10 22:32:50 it's the mozilla engine browser for maemo Dec 10 22:32:57 Spastic what OS are you running? Dec 10 22:33:02 2006 Dec 10 22:33:06 On the 770 Dec 10 22:33:25 Is there a microb release for 2006? Dec 10 22:33:28 There should be .. Dec 10 22:33:35 microb is available on that isn't it, or is it only HE Dec 10 22:33:50 anybody gotten a usb wifi device working on 770/n8x0? Dec 10 22:34:13 They dont have usb ports, do they? Dec 10 22:34:24 they have usb ports Dec 10 22:34:24 Nope, but I want to get my usb wifi logeitch joysticks working Dec 10 22:34:26 pupnik, I've not tried mine. Mainly because the module isn't in the kernel tree. Dec 10 22:35:00 hoping some kernel hacker tries it sometime - maybe fanoush Dec 10 22:35:11 I will try it. Dec 10 22:35:25 Just not now, well, maybe in a few minutes when I've finished my release. Dec 10 22:35:26 penguinbait, heh for the coyote Dec 10 22:35:47 speaking of usb devices, I made a cdrom.deb for the kernel modules for 2008OS, it automounts disks, how do I get it to automount the cdrom/dev devices also Dec 10 22:36:03 :) Dec 10 22:36:11 I couldn't get usb mass storage to work. Dec 10 22:36:14 How did you? Dec 10 22:36:35 I just do an echo, and its working Dec 10 22:36:41 2008OS Dec 10 22:36:48 N Dec 10 22:36:57 Damn Dec 10 22:37:12 Nokia usb cable with a Female A to Female A adapter Dec 10 22:37:21 It worked when I plugged it into my Camera, but not when I plugged it into my card readers. Dec 10 22:37:28 penguinbait, yeah. I've got the same setup .. Dec 10 22:37:32 thumb drive was powerer by n800 Dec 10 22:38:02 usb hard disk needed extra power Dec 10 22:38:16 Well, the lights came on. But the N800 complained about not being able to handle the device. "unrecognised" or something. Dec 10 22:38:17 CDROM/DVD was 110V Dec 10 22:38:26 110V?! Dec 10 22:38:37 Mine's only 5v .. Dec 10 22:38:38 It will say unrecognized, but it mounts it Dec 10 22:38:48 Interesting .. Dec 10 22:38:52 I'll have another go in a minute. Dec 10 22:39:06 it was powered by the wall, not the n800 Dec 10 22:39:16 Obviously. Dec 10 22:39:32 110V for a CDROM .. I think you're wrong :P Dec 10 22:39:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12491 Dec 10 22:39:47 theres the cdrom deb Dec 10 22:39:53 he was referring to wall current instead of host powered Dec 10 22:40:03 things are getting better, I mistranslated a !boundary into cmp64_int(boundary,0)!=0 Dec 10 22:40:04 it will autoload the modules on install, and on future boots Dec 10 22:40:06 voltage .. Not current. Dec 10 22:40:28 Didn't want to put it into hal? Dec 10 22:40:58 hal ? Dec 10 22:41:01 Hmm .. Dec 10 22:41:04 ? Dec 10 22:41:12 Maybe I'm thinking of udev. Dec 10 22:41:40 modprobe probably. Dec 10 22:41:46 Damnit .. Dec 10 22:41:49 what controls the automount of devices Dec 10 22:42:07 there is no automounter that I can find Dec 10 22:42:08 Well, udev _can_ do it. Dec 10 22:42:11 I'd have to check. Dec 10 22:42:14 nothing in fstab Dec 10 22:43:01 x11vnc does not see the video frames. is there a vnc server that does? ie: is fbvncserver or similar available for the n800/os2007? Dec 10 22:43:30 any other options to remotely see a video call? (yes, I know that performance will suck, this is for a demo nothing more) Dec 10 22:43:39 Or hotplug .. Dec 10 22:44:37 can I start the complete front end on a remote X server? what about the video call application? will it then push video over X instead of direct to the local fram buffer as it appears to be doing? Dec 10 22:47:04 TimRiker, not likely. Dec 10 22:47:33 They probably should have added the alarm clock feature to the internet readio .. Dec 10 22:47:37 ~radio .. Dec 10 22:48:10 does n810 have fm radio, or only transmitter? Dec 10 22:48:17 Neither Dec 10 22:48:28 it has FM transmitter Dec 10 22:48:31 right? Dec 10 22:48:31 is there a full emulated tablet interface in the sdk that can place video calls? Dec 10 22:48:33 No it doesn't. Dec 10 22:48:42 The FM transmitter is an accessory .. Dec 10 22:48:50 the nokia internet call invitation beta is over, so can't go that route. Dec 10 22:49:10 TimRiker, no. Dec 10 22:49:30 I thought it was built in, bummer Dec 10 22:49:30 Well, there's a slim possibility you can use the rootfs from a real device in the SDK .. Dec 10 22:52:12 Cool, you can make a double click on the power button do something. Dec 10 22:53:49 Interesting. Dec 10 22:54:41 alterego: I thought the sdk ran x86 versions? the real device would be arm packages. Dec 10 22:55:01 TimRiker, how do you think the SDK is able to compile for arm then? Dec 10 22:55:18 compile for, yes. run, no. Dec 10 22:55:32 at least that's what I understood. Dec 10 22:55:34 Do you think I would have recommended it if it wasn't possible? Dec 10 22:56:02 Obviously your understanding comes from zero use .. Dec 10 22:56:07 well I thought that's what you meant by "slim possibility" Dec 10 22:56:27 No, "slim possibility" meant. You can try it, but qemu isn't perfect .. Dec 10 22:56:44 I've cross compiled apps for the n800, but they are all at the system level and using my own cross compile tools. never messed with the actual sdk. Dec 10 22:57:06 Your loss then :P Dec 10 22:57:51 I would not expect normal qemu to expose v4l or other video devices through the emulator, but I've never checked either. :) Dec 10 22:58:12 Good point .. Dec 10 22:58:19 I guess you can't do it then. Dec 10 22:58:27 heh Dec 10 22:58:55 re Dec 10 22:58:55 What's NJoy me wonders .. Dec 10 22:59:15 "NJoy Controller" .. Dec 10 22:59:38 czr, you dead yet? Dec 10 22:59:40 TimRiker: just run your x server without xv extension, and vnc should see the drawn video Dec 10 22:59:53 afaik or configure the app to use plain old x11 rendering Dec 10 22:59:54 alterego, nope Dec 10 23:00:03 czr, have you heard of this "NJoy Controller"? Dec 10 23:00:06 unfortunately to you all, I'm very much alive :-) Dec 10 23:00:20 It looks like some kind of game controller with flashing lights. Dec 10 23:00:23 alterego, sounds like some stupid marketing typo :-). what is it supposed to do/be? Dec 10 23:00:27 No reference to it on the internet though .. Dec 10 23:00:34 then it doesn't exist Dec 10 23:00:40 internet knows all. Dec 10 23:00:45 Interesting .. Dec 10 23:00:57 I wonder if this is something Nokia are working on. A gamepad for the NSeries .. Dec 10 23:01:11 mayeb related to the ngage-emulator/thingy whatever on the new Nseries Dec 10 23:01:42 Oh, actually. Dec 10 23:01:47 This is for a future device. Dec 10 23:01:49 My mistake. Dec 10 23:02:06 Looks like they're going to have red green and blue LEDs in the next tablet. Dec 10 23:02:10 Or a future tablet .. Dec 10 23:02:11 * czr opens the window into the future for alterego Dec 10 23:02:28 hmm. n810 has dual color at least Dec 10 23:02:36 never seen it red. but green, blue and white so far. Dec 10 23:03:25 Ah, that's probably it then :) Dec 10 23:03:50 You can configure how the lights play when things happen. Dec 10 23:04:26 Wow, you can even change the intensity. Dec 10 23:04:45 for the 810? Dec 10 23:04:49 Yup Dec 10 23:04:51 is there intensity on the 800 LED? Dec 10 23:04:55 Yup Dec 10 23:05:22 would be nice to have the number of unread mails/IMs/missed calls raise the intensity of the LED Dec 10 23:05:39 That's unfortunately not possible. Dec 10 23:05:46 You can customise it for different things though. Dec 10 23:06:00 Modest couldn't implement something like that? Dec 10 23:06:05 Say IM is low, email is mid, and incomming call is high Dec 10 23:06:11 ah Dec 10 23:06:35 Well, I don't know if it's possible to drive the LED's directly. It should be but I don't know how yet :) Dec 10 23:06:51 * alterego suddenly has an evil .. EVIL plan. Dec 10 23:07:00 I do wish the 800 had a camera mounted like the 810 does though. That would make for some cool interactivity with the 'motion' application. Dec 10 23:07:10 Oh, here's a hint. Dec 10 23:07:34 I just found out. That if the device is locked, opening the camera disables the screen/key lock and starts the call app regardless .. Dec 10 23:07:42 (dumb configuration choice IMO) Dec 10 23:07:55 My HTPC uses a webcam to detect if I'm sitting on the couch.. and if it senses me on the couch and not on my computer when an email or private IM hits me during business hours, it speaks the contents of the IM or email on the surround sound system. Dec 10 23:08:11 Heh Dec 10 23:08:21 argh, terrible :D Dec 10 23:08:39 work from home, sometimes you need creative ways to get yourself to 'work' Dec 10 23:08:41 ;) Dec 10 23:09:00 of course, just imagine the hours I wasted scripting all of that when I should have been working. Dec 10 23:09:05 Right, well. It looks like automounting is handled by gnome-vfs. Dec 10 23:09:13 I can't find anything else that is likely to take responsibility. Dec 10 23:09:21 the same gnome-vfs that is completely sucking our memory away? Dec 10 23:09:47 Pfft. Dec 10 23:10:02 The only problem I have, is the slow starting times of microb .. Dec 10 23:10:04 maybe it was a bug or something was crashed, but I thought I saw it using 20MB+ Dec 10 23:10:10 And the constant hanging :) Dec 10 23:10:22 web browser keeps crashing on OS2008 on N800 - is this well known? Dec 10 23:10:23 fysa, I think that's the meta crawler. Dec 10 23:10:26 microb is so much improved with the render delay fixed. Dec 10 23:10:43 It doesn't crash for me. It just hangs every now-and-again. Dec 10 23:10:50 What is the equivalent of a ctl-alt-del on the n800 - not that I need it, but would be nice to know anyway?!? Dec 10 23:11:03 no - mine 'goes away' every time i open a url Dec 10 23:11:20 alterego, can you test this config option and see how it affects you? Dec 10 23:11:57 http://kb.mozillazine.org/Nglayout.initialpaint.delay Dec 10 23:12:05 try setting this to 400 - 1200 Dec 10 23:12:10 http://maemo.pastebin.com/m34c22922 - callback function to read data, the function reads the data and prints out a message to tell me, but it doesn't return that value to the _get_data() fn. Any ideas? Dec 10 23:12:17 the default about:config sets it to -3 for some reason Dec 10 23:12:18 fysa, what does it do? Dec 10 23:12:23 which I'm thinking forces it to 0, which is real-time updates Dec 10 23:12:31 Ah Dec 10 23:12:43 it's the delay between receiving data before the browser attempts to render the screen Dec 10 23:12:58 if it's 0, you render in real-time as everything comes down the pipe Dec 10 23:13:21 which basically causes delay in processing the data because now you're spending this energy drawing something that isn't really viewable yet anyway. Dec 10 23:13:21 I just bought a IGO Slim keyboard Dec 10 23:13:25 the default is 250ms now Dec 10 23:13:27 how do I pair it? Dec 10 23:13:33 but for some reason it's -3 in OS2008 Dec 10 23:13:40 (default in standard firefox) Dec 10 23:13:55 I raised mine to 600ms and I'm 99% positive that pages load considerably faster Dec 10 23:14:11 they don't pop right away, but they don't sit there and load one word at a time anymore. Dec 10 23:14:23 i.e., the time from loading start to the page being usable seems much improved Dec 10 23:14:59 if you read the related bugs attached to that article you'll see various experiences related to different values Dec 10 23:15:04 fysa, Do I just enter '600' into the value field? Dec 10 23:15:06 Is it ms? Dec 10 23:15:07 yeah Dec 10 23:15:09 ms Dec 10 23:15:11 just 600 Dec 10 23:15:17 or higher if you like. 3000 was way too high. Dec 10 23:15:24 I've only tried 3000 and 600 so far. Dec 10 23:15:36 That's like 3 seconds :P Dec 10 23:15:38 pages with flash aren't as painful anymore Dec 10 23:15:46 I'd keep it below 1000 to be honest ;) Dec 10 23:15:59 yeah, wanted to test the extreme to see how long it would take to load a complete page given no rendering Dec 10 23:16:07 and make sure the option actually worked Dec 10 23:16:33 I believe that real-time/0ms delay would cause HTML rendering to be completely bogged down by flash downloading/display also Dec 10 23:16:45 with a high enough delay, you should be able to pull most of the HTML down before you're hit with the CPU burden of flash Dec 10 23:17:06 Coo. Dec 10 23:17:12 I'll play around with it a bit. Dec 10 23:17:30 * alterego would like to know why he keeps getting spam from Apple .. Dec 10 23:17:47 there could be another delay relating to DNS lookup or some such also. it seems that every now and then it takes nearly 2 seconds before microb will even 'hit' a remote server Dec 10 23:18:12 Yeah, that's annoying too .. Dec 10 23:18:29 I've setup a squid server with adzapper (filters out flash ads), but microb doesn't like to keep proxy settings so I've not tested it for long periods of time Dec 10 23:19:12 anybody have their IGO stowaway keyboard paired with N800 - OS2008? Dec 10 23:19:16 I can imagine that this could help considerably -- reduce the delay from your network out for popular pages (mostly google apps) and the latency of WAN ACKs won't hurt as bad Dec 10 23:20:24 but that's still a hack that is only helpful for using the web around the house. Dec 10 23:22:17 you can try enabling pipelining or increasing the maximum number of concurrent connections under network.* Dec 10 23:22:55 pipelining I believe lets you receive multiple pieces of data from a server on a single connection, reducing TCP overhead Dec 10 23:24:32 connection keep-alive? Dec 10 23:24:49 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_pipelining Dec 10 23:24:52 I'd like global compression .. Dec 10 23:25:01 I was thinking of doing that through an SSH tunnel. Dec 10 23:25:35 you might be able to do that with a squid proxy. Dec 10 23:26:28 that adds latency Dec 10 23:26:45 fysa, ah. thanks for the link. not the same as keep-alives. Dec 10 23:26:47 it caches Dec 10 23:26:52 so it may ad latency the first time around Dec 10 23:26:57 .. add Dec 10 23:27:11 http://adzapper.sourceforge.net/ Dec 10 23:27:37 but it could be a big help on pages with lots of JS/ajax/staticy content Dec 10 23:28:10 does privoxy remove flash ads? Dec 10 23:30:38 i want a browser that lets me click on flash boxes to enable them Dec 10 23:31:04 I want a browser that doesn't have flash boxes... Dec 10 23:31:09 ...oh wait, I have one Dec 10 23:32:01 skibur_: the bluetooth keyboard in control panel is what you want. Dec 10 23:32:15 got it working Dec 10 23:32:17 thanks Dec 10 23:32:31 * czr hands inz an older lady doing window-shopping Dec 10 23:32:36 no flash boxes in that one. Dec 10 23:32:43 and she's only browsing. Dec 10 23:34:12 * lardman is confused :( Dec 10 23:43:02 Well, my card reader doesn't get mounted,. Dec 10 23:43:16 It just keeps flashing up the message "USB device not supported" Dec 10 23:43:21 Continually every second or so. Dec 10 23:45:58 Maybe it can't read the card you put in it? Dec 10 23:46:28 I've added a new news on my project, but it is not shown on the garage homepage. why? Dec 10 23:48:30 Okay, it does work .. Dec 10 23:48:35 Insuficient power ^_^ Dec 10 23:51:24 Nice .. Super storage ^_^ Dec 10 23:51:35 with external battery? Dec 10 23:51:46 * pupnik plays guitar wialing sample Dec 10 23:51:49 PSU in a powerable mini hub Dec 10 23:52:04 and host mode for usb port? Dec 10 23:52:10 Yup Dec 10 23:52:27 Piss easy to enable. `echo "host" > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode` Dec 10 23:53:04 But how does one set it back short of a "shutdown -r now" ? Dec 10 23:53:05 The OS even handles it pretty well. Dec 10 23:53:13 O_o Dec 10 23:53:16 What? Dec 10 23:53:30 After a timeout of inactivity. And no USB connection. It'll go back into it's idle state. Dec 10 23:54:14 altergo: echo "client" or similar? Dec 10 23:54:23 aargh, I can't type! Dec 10 23:54:26 alterego: Didn't here :-( Dec 10 23:54:34 Sure, you can force it with: "peripheral" instead of "host Dec 10 23:54:45 Or force it into idle with "b_idle" Dec 10 23:55:07 Cool, thanks! Dec 10 23:55:21 3 bloody days. Dec 10 23:55:27 Now if it just supported my eithernet dongle or the serial converter :). Dec 10 23:55:31 Though only 20 minutes of time spent getting that to work ^_^ Dec 10 23:55:48 isn't that always the way?! Dec 10 23:55:51 K`zan, if linux supports it and you've got the SDK installed. Compiling the module is easy. Dec 10 23:56:18 spend bloody ages doing something then realise it could have been done far more easily (if you'd had that knowledge already) Dec 10 23:56:32 Oh, I've not learned anything. Dec 10 23:56:38 Well, except the 'b_idle' thing Dec 10 23:56:53 No, I've just had some dumb moments of not reading dmesg properly. Dec 10 23:57:04 alterego: Got the url for that, just need to get to it :). Dec 10 23:57:07 I was blind to the one error message that was stopping my card readers from working .. Dec 10 23:57:12 well that's learning isn't it, in a way Dec 10 23:57:13 "insufficient power" ^_^ Dec 10 23:57:32 anyway, time for bed, see you chaps tomorrow Dec 10 23:57:55 alterego: It did drive my SD card reader nicely though, I thought the n800 had no power supply to USB :). Dec 10 23:58:07 3.3v 200ma Dec 10 23:58:17 Obviously my card readers are greedy .. Dec 10 23:58:51 disq: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/lms/ Dec 10 23:59:08 disq: just committed, would you care to take a look Dec 10 23:59:09 ? Dec 10 23:59:29 Tomorrow I'll be aquiring a small USB keyboard :) Dec 10 23:59:37 Hi all :) New n800 owner here Dec 10 23:59:40 just arrived in the mail Dec 10 23:59:46 And an ethernet dongle .. Dec 10 23:59:50 fierce, cool :) Dec 10 23:59:54 They're neat aren't they :) Dec 10 23:59:55 quickest & easiest way to get irssi onto this would be? :) Dec 10 23:59:58 oh yeah Dec 11 00:00:00 gonna be a blast Dec 11 00:00:08 fierce, not a fan of xchat? Dec 11 00:00:11 oh sure Dec 11 00:00:13 i love xchat Dec 11 00:00:18 :-) Dec 11 00:00:29 Well, you can install xchat. Dec 11 00:00:30 The whole point of irssi is to use it with ssh+screen. Dec 11 00:00:39 alterego: Will be interesthing to hear your experiences with that :) Dec 11 00:00:40 Yeah .. Not local :D Dec 11 00:00:56 alterego cool , where should I go for beginner tips on howto install xchat then? :-) Dec 11 00:00:57 Well, I would use it local, too. In screen. Dec 11 00:01:08 K`zan, well. Having a full size keyboard, a 24/7 connection regardless of position. I think I'll start blogging ;) Dec 11 00:01:36 I wouldn't see a point running it local. Dec 11 00:01:40 Unless you don't have X running .. Dec 11 00:01:49 alterego: That is why I built the power injector- primarily for a USB keyboard. Dec 11 00:02:05 K`zan, you shouldn't need one really. Dec 11 00:02:10 Not with the N800 Dec 11 00:02:18 Normally the thrift shops are crawling in USB keyboards, but not lately. Dec 11 00:02:45 My idea is .. : 4 port mini hub: USB keyboard, USB -> Nokia charger, USB -> Ethernet, USB -> IDE adapter :) Dec 11 00:02:58 That way I only need one plug to keep my Nokia charged and use it at the same time. Dec 11 00:03:04 If nothing else it serves as an adapter for the different connectors. Might work that way without power. Dec 11 00:03:19 Hummm, got a couple 4 port hubs here, perhaps I should try that. Dec 11 00:03:38 I'm short of a keyboard, USB charger and ethernet. Dec 11 00:03:54 Considering I trashed a usb 1.1 hub to get the connetors :). 1.1 should be good enough for ethernet and keyboard. Dec 11 00:03:55 I'll also construct a battery pack out of an old laptop battery. Dec 11 00:04:14 Look at my power injector (getting link): Dec 11 00:05:01 http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/tmp/USB-PI/ Dec 11 00:05:34 Seems to work fine. Dec 11 00:06:03 Ooo .. I've had a cunning idea. Dec 11 00:06:15 The black thing between the connectors is for a wall wart. Dec 11 00:06:28 n800 camera would be more useful if it just sucked... Dec 11 00:06:38 I setup a daemon on my home server to keep a port forwarded connection to my static server on the net. Which keeps an ssh connection. Dec 11 00:06:39 Can power it from a USB host or wall wart. Dec 11 00:06:49 So I ssh to my rubyx server but it gets forwarded into my workstation, Dec 11 00:06:57 better than that dyndns shite :D Dec 11 00:07:19 alterego: Yes, they seem to have dropped static for a monthly money nag now. Dec 11 00:07:45 err, show activity nag :) Dec 11 00:07:55 That's a pretty aweful quality picture :P Dec 11 00:07:58 N800? Dec 11 00:08:11 Yep. Dec 11 00:08:18 Yes, using a fluorescent lamp on the desk Dec 11 00:08:23 I can tell with the fuzz pattern. Dec 11 00:08:33 I'm not sure why they bothered. Dec 11 00:08:42 Cute. Dec 11 00:08:47 disabling XVideo on Xomap just breaks video calling. the app does not fall back to anything apparently. Dec 11 00:08:47 Well because it's not meant to be used as a camera. Dec 11 00:09:02 Maybe got a discontinued batch of end line ones cheap... Dec 11 00:09:10 For something simple like video calls, the camera is just fine. Dec 11 00:09:19 I think the interference is from the hardware. Dec 11 00:09:21 Or they are rat shack floor sweepings :). Dec 11 00:09:31 I've not bothered trying it in offline mode .. Dec 11 00:12:24 K`zan: isn't it easier to do it with a powered hub (and just use the power hub wall wart) Dec 11 00:12:49 ds3: In retrospect, probably although I haven't tried it yet. Dec 11 00:13:00 ds3: But it was fun to build something. Dec 11 00:13:15 heh, can't argue on that ;) Dec 11 00:13:40 Now to make it wireless ;) Dec 11 00:13:58 K`zan: is that the only thing you need to do to make it work? (i.e. are there any flasher switches or other software toggles) Dec 11 00:14:02 SOmething changed here, I can hear signals on the radio (the one I got from the thrift store yesterday :-). Normally noise is VERY high here, might build a low power tramsmitter. Dec 11 00:14:31 ds3: I'm no expert but you need to echo "host" to a file to get it to work, hold a sec. Dec 11 00:15:02 Okay, my shiny radio alarm clock is set. Dec 11 00:15:04 G'night folks. Dec 11 00:15:08 someone here was claiming full OTG support but from my experience with a similar OMAP proc, that's not the state of the usb driver :/ Dec 11 00:15:27 I still have not clue one what is different between OTG and USB :) Dec 11 00:15:56 K`zan: OTG is a supplement to USB 2.0; it provides for automatic switching between host and device modes Dec 11 00:16:14 Ah, apparently not on the n800, I think. Dec 11 00:16:29 so if OTG is there, I should be able to plug a host in there an HNP (I think) should figure it out; or if I put a miniA in there, it should become a host unless HNP says otherwise Dec 11 00:16:55 okay, great to have confirmation one isn't miss reading code ;) Dec 11 00:16:59 ds3: My ignorance of all this is **legion** Dec 11 00:17:44 got to start somewhere, even if it is just little experiments Dec 11 00:18:00 True :-) Dec 11 00:18:19 does anyone got accepted in the maemo device program to get a discount for the n810? Dec 11 00:18:21 hoping this xmas, I'll get time to try things with a powered hub; got a liIon pack to power it Dec 11 00:19:26 card reader for usb is cool alterego tell us how to do it sometime ok thanks Dec 11 00:19:41 typing like a 12-year-old is habit-forming Dec 11 00:20:00 pupnik, what you say? Dec 11 00:20:15 :) DeLe0n the developer program is closed Dec 11 00:20:38 * czr should start shutting down servers and thingies Dec 11 00:20:39 pupnik: i know... i got accepted Dec 11 00:20:41 alterego made a card reader get recognized - that'd be a nice enhancement to the tablets Dec 11 00:21:08 so what are you asking DeLe0n Dec 11 00:21:09 anyone know what was the reason why Nokia devices insist on wanting 5.5V before charging? Dec 11 00:21:11 pupnik: but i still dont know when the code will be valid, do u know something about this? Dec 11 00:21:22 yes the rumor is mid-december Dec 11 00:21:23 We were told it would be around the 15th. Dec 11 00:21:38 Direct from Quim himself. Dec 11 00:22:05 ds3 i am guessing it helps charging to have a higher voltage than operating voltage? Dec 11 00:22:24 so you know - teh current - it flows downstream - into battery Dec 11 00:22:35 thanks... i really can't wait, and as i'm in mexico it will be another problem to order it in nokiausa Dec 11 00:22:44 pupnik: are there really 5V parts inside it? seems hoard to believe esp. since the battery is nominal 3v Dec 11 00:22:51 DeLe0n: it is a hrobil wait Dec 11 00:22:59 oh i didnt know that ds3 Dec 11 00:33:17 lol xchat on my n800 Dec 11 00:33:27 this rocks Dec 11 00:34:46 how do i stop screen from dimming off so fast Dec 11 00:35:11 Open control panel and look around. Dec 11 00:35:37 cool thanks Dec 11 00:42:17 pupnik: LiIon batteries are 4.2 max (charged) down to about 2.8v... so I couldn't for the life of me figure out why Nokia needs 5.5V to charge other then be difficult Dec 11 00:46:26 user_: you can do it with gconf Dec 11 00:46:57 somebody should doo a 'click to install' package that extends screen blanking timeouts! Dec 11 00:47:01 or you could write a small program that uses libosso to delay the blank :-) Dec 11 00:47:11 He's not asking to extend them though. Dec 11 00:47:11 pupnik, I wrote a small libosso program that keeps the backlight on Dec 11 00:47:18 isn't there a control panel setting that does it? Dec 11 00:47:22 pupnik, it's licensed under MIT-permissive. Dec 11 00:47:24 Yes. Dec 11 00:47:37 the training material includes it. it should've gone public today Dec 11 00:47:57 i know how to do it man Dec 11 00:47:58 but it didn't. (it's in the 'maemo Platform Development' material, look for 'flashlight') Dec 11 00:48:02 don't question my REAL ULTIMATE POWER Dec 11 00:48:12 floating points? ;-) Dec 11 00:48:24 * czr prefers INTEGER ULTIMATE POWER Dec 11 00:48:30 heheh Dec 11 00:48:56 infobot: backlight delay? Dec 11 00:48:58 hmr Dec 11 00:50:18 hmm. anyone worked with pdfs closely? Dec 11 00:50:23 infobot: "screen blank delay" is howto increase screen dimming/poweroff timeouts http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5704&highlight=blanking+delay+screen Dec 11 00:50:24 I think you lost me on that one, pupnik Dec 11 00:52:09 Another stupid bot to kill. Dec 11 00:53:01 hahah Dec 11 00:53:40 at least it's not annoying. :-) Dec 11 00:53:41 even if stupid Dec 11 00:59:00 GeneralAntilles: hi again Dec 11 00:59:14 Hey, Tuco800. Dec 11 00:59:21 So? Dec 11 01:00:20 One of the reps here his asking if there is an version mplayer for n810 yet Dec 11 01:00:44 Yes Dec 11 01:00:50 It's in the garage's extras-devel Dec 11 01:00:58 Link please Dec 11 01:01:29 http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4 Dec 11 01:01:35 Testing Maemo Extras on that page. Dec 11 01:01:46 http://www.gronmayer.com/it/dl.php?id=141 Dec 11 01:01:49 That should get you the .install. Dec 11 01:02:03 Pretty stable, .flv playback isn't as good as the OS2007 version right now. Dec 11 01:03:45 Thanks Dec 11 01:04:41 Sure. Dec 11 01:05:49 ooh nice - more dimming options .install file for OS2007! https://maemo.org/downloads/product/raw/OS2007/moredimmingoptions/?get_installfile Dec 11 01:09:34 So far so good, derf. Did crash once after much window open/closing but couldn't reproduce it. Dec 11 01:09:59 That's not what I want to hear. Dec 11 01:10:48 I have been using it a lot, and of course it's not like I lost data when it disappeared. Dec 11 01:11:17 I still haven't gotten a good answer on HOW/WHERE to put icons so they are the right sizes everywhere in the interface. There's a "scalable" icons directory but not even that is scaled right sometimes. Dec 11 01:12:25 I'm sure there's ample documentation on the subject. Dec 11 01:12:42 Locked in a vault and then thrown away, vault and all. Dec 11 01:12:44 I couldn't really find much, but maybe my googlefu isn't what it once was. Dec 11 01:23:28 * czr decides to torture the N810 by opening a 31 MiB PDF on it Dec 11 01:25:30 today my n810 officially replace my n800 :D Dec 11 01:26:33 * giskard would say the same thing but the n810 is not yet avaiable in europe Dec 11 01:27:19 (yes, uk is shipping it, but not italy, and it seems that the discount code can't be used in uk) Dec 11 01:31:54 the discount codes cant be used anywhere yet Dec 11 01:33:03 the discount code can be used at any nokiashop? or just the one u selected? Dec 11 01:33:24 we don't know yet, because they can't be used Dec 11 01:34:16 haha :O Dec 11 01:38:33 finland/off -> Dec 11 01:38:41 have fun all _o/ Dec 11 01:46:52 this thumb-keyboard really isnt too bad i am surprised Dec 11 01:47:36 DeLe0n: Just the one you selected as far as we know. Dec 11 01:48:39 zerojay: is that if its for sale in europe before it will be easier for me, cause i have family living there and they are coming for christmas Dec 11 01:49:01 It's for everyone. Dec 11 01:49:18 But you might be able to ask them to switch shops. Dec 11 01:49:20 Maybe. Dec 11 01:49:32 zerojay thanks for the email Dec 11 01:49:56 Atarii: Sorry it took so long, i forgot about it completely. Dec 11 01:49:59 zerojay: nah, i think i'll get it from nokiausa... Dec 11 01:50:16 lol its ok, i shudnt be a noob Dec 11 02:14:10 Hey all, someone is telling me i need to upgrade my n800 from version 26-8 to something newer Dec 11 02:14:18 in order to use my SDHC Class 6 card properly Dec 11 02:14:20 how do I do this? Dec 11 02:15:16 Heh.. check the front page of Digg. Dec 11 02:23:27 anyone using mClock? Dec 11 02:30:33 zerojay, the ogg crap? Dec 11 02:32:10 yep Dec 11 02:41:30 so, how long will the backlight in my n800 last? Dec 11 02:41:57 Until the heatdeath of the universe, or until you eat a cheese sandwich, whichever comes first. Dec 11 02:42:11 yesss Dec 11 02:43:48 60k hours, most likely. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Dec 11 02:59:57 2007