**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 14 02:59:56 2007
Dec 14 03:43:51 <pupnik> yaaay xmms *finally* fixed the 'always on top' switch!
Dec 14 03:43:52 <pupnik> only took 7 years to do it!
Dec 14 03:45:20 <vlad_> does the n810 media player handle h.264 video/aac audio, in a mp4 container?
Dec 14 03:45:26 <vlad_> or do I need to do something else?
Dec 14 03:49:18 <|R> anyone been able to play bomberman n8x0 to n8x0 ? :)
Dec 14 03:49:41 <|R> even by hand it doesn't seem to work (with bombermanclient and *server -h ...)
Dec 14 03:52:08 <|R> with netcat from one n800 to the other i can trigger activity on the server port but game won't connect...
Dec 14 03:52:11 <pupnik> dunno dunno
Dec 14 03:52:32 <pupnik> vlad_: tablet-encode
Dec 14 03:54:34 <alp> pupnik: i don't think that's a helpful answer
Dec 14 03:55:16 <vlad_> pupnik: yeah, I don't use linux :)
Dec 14 03:56:44 <pupnik> http://www.google.com/search?q=n810+media+player+h.264+video+aac+audio+mp4   I dunno - don't have my N810 yet.
Dec 14 03:56:56 <vlad_> yeh, trawling through that list now :)
Dec 14 03:57:05 <vlad_> I may have just overdone it on the resolution, shrinking things down now
Dec 14 03:57:08 <vlad_> and using an avi container instead of mp4 container
Dec 14 03:57:26 <pupnik> yeah 400x240 is recommended
Dec 14 03:59:03 <vlad_> I was (optimistically) trying 640x480 :)
Dec 14 04:03:53 <pupnik> vlad_: mplayer will handle more codecs, give you better speed and compression
Dec 14 04:05:42 <vlad_> pupnik: yeah, just no mplayer yet for n810
Dec 14 04:05:46 <vlad_> I could probably build it, I guess
Dec 14 04:08:33 <K`zan> I thought there was mplayer for the n800?!?
Dec 14 04:08:43 <unique311> mplayer for os2008 is avail
Dec 14 04:09:04 <unique311> ur n810 is running os2008
Dec 14 04:09:25 <unique311> search downloads on maemo.org os2008
Dec 14 04:10:38 <unique311> http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008
Dec 14 04:10:55 <vlad_> ah yeh, just found it
Dec 14 04:11:47 <unique311> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12046
Dec 14 04:12:19 <vlad_> nod
Dec 14 04:12:24 <vlad_> just added the extras-devel repo
Dec 14 04:12:39 <K`zan> Guess I was wrong, no mplayer for 2008 :-(.
Dec 14 04:12:55 <unique311> 23 stopped playing .flv files properly for me.
Dec 14 04:12:56 <Vulc|Bleh> [23:11:48] <unique311> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12046 -- its there.
Dec 14 04:13:06 <Vulc|Bleh> you want .21, I believe
Dec 14 04:13:07 <unique311> 21 played them pretty well
Dec 14 04:13:13 <unique311> yeah
Dec 14 04:13:54 <unique311> don't install 23, not sure what happen, but alot of the videos i tried froze
Dec 14 04:13:59 <unique311> during playback
Dec 14 04:15:28 <unique311> but worked on 21 pretty good
Dec 14 04:16:03 <unique311> but i am running os2008 on the n800 (beta version)
Dec 14 04:16:28 <unique311> 23 might fair better on the n810s os2008
Dec 14 04:19:35 <vlad_> mmm, 1500kbps is a bit much!
Dec 14 04:21:01 <pupnik> with xvid i go 700kb/s with 64kb/s mono audio (keep movies below 350MB)
Dec 14 04:22:10 <pupnik> course, you can't take it with you
Dec 14 04:23:33 <vlad_> can't take which with me?
Dec 14 04:24:24 <pupnik> sorry offtopic
Dec 14 04:31:02 <pupnik> Pupnik's Music Pick of the Day:  wget http://www.austinsound.net/dl/ThreadbareCoat.mp3
Dec 14 04:36:20 <dragorn> wow, mplayer has gotten a LOT better since I last used it
Dec 14 04:36:25 <dragorn> good work, whomever did it :)
Dec 14 04:40:47 <K`zan> Any of the editors for 2008 do .rtf?
Dec 14 04:44:08 <pupnik> abiword?  should be released soon?
Dec 14 04:45:22 <dragorn> yeah i'm waiting for that one
Dec 14 05:26:01 <skibur> ?
Dec 14 05:28:16 <Redbibi> hi
Dec 14 05:33:38 <ShyBoy> got a problem
Dec 14 05:33:56 <ShyBoy> checking tcl build dir... locate: /scratchbox/tools/var/locatedb: No such file or directory
Dec 14 05:33:56 <ShyBoy> configure: error: Unable to find Tcl directory or Tcl package is not tcl-dev
Dec 14 05:34:10 <ShyBoy> i do have tcl installed on chinook env..
Dec 14 05:35:14 <pupnik_> your script seems to be calling locate to find a dir
Dec 14 05:35:36 <pupnik_> go to that line and replace the result of locate with your tcl build dir
Dec 14 05:35:54 <ShyBoy> thx, let me check
Dec 14 05:36:23 <pupnik_> the alternative would be to install and run locate/updatedb, but i have a feeling that's not such a good idea
Dec 14 05:36:27 <dragorn> or run updatedb to get a locate database
Dec 14 05:36:31 <dragorn> heh
Dec 14 05:36:35 <dragorn> why not?
Dec 14 05:37:18 <ShyBoy> /scratchbox/tools/bin/updatedb: line 139: /scratchbox/tools/var/locatedb.n: Permission denied
Dec 14 05:37:26 <ShyBoy> updatedb is giving me this error though
Dec 14 05:38:33 <ShyBoy> /scratchbox/tools/bin/find: error in /scratchbox/etc/mtab: /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/volatile: No such file or directory
Dec 14 05:38:33 <ShyBoy> updatedb: new database would be empty
Dec 14 05:40:16 <ShyBoy> where do i get the sources for tcl?
Dec 14 05:40:53 <ShyBoy> i mean tcl for chinook armel
Dec 14 06:16:54 <ShyBoy> having this error, can someone please help
Dec 14 06:16:54 <ShyBoy> checking tcl build dir... locate: /scratchbox/tools/var/locatedb: No such file or directory
Dec 14 06:16:54 <ShyBoy> configure: error: Unable to find Tcl directory or Tcl package is not tcl-dev
Dec 14 06:20:16 <ShyBoy> i had 2 locates which I provide the path
Dec 14 06:20:25 <ShyBoy> still the script stuck there
Dec 14 06:22:09 <ShyBoy> i guess i need to refresh this configure (refresh or re=initiaze), how can i force to configure, once modified?
Dec 14 06:22:46 <ShyBoy> i guess i need to refresh this configure (refresh or re=initiaze), how can i force to configure, once modified?
Dec 14 06:23:29 <pupnik> ./configure
Dec 14 06:23:41 <ShyBoy> its caching it i guess
Dec 14 06:23:53 <ShyBoy> the change i made, but it keep saying the same error
Dec 14 06:24:07 <pupnik> is this a debian package?
Dec 14 06:24:17 <ShyBoy> I guess yes
Dec 14 06:24:27 <pupnik> it might be copying the script to debian/.......
Dec 14 06:24:31 <pupnik> or
Dec 14 06:24:42 <pupnik> you might have to go to an automake script
Dec 14 06:25:12 <pupnik> did the re-run remove the changes you made by overwriting the file ShyBoy ?
Dec 14 06:26:19 <ShyBoy> no
Dec 14 06:26:28 <ShyBoy> my changes are there
Dec 14 06:26:47 <ShyBoy> the debian folder doesn't contain any configure
Dec 14 06:26:58 <ShyBoy> can't do automake as there is no install-sh
Dec 14 06:27:15 <ShyBoy> when i configure it shows the same error
Dec 14 06:27:22 <ShyBoy> but i modify the contents
Dec 14 06:27:45 <ShyBoy> still shows the locate error, and i put the remarks on locate command (#)
Dec 14 06:28:15 <ShyBoy> i remember there were some command with --force to run first before ./cofigure if its modified
Dec 14 06:28:17 <ShyBoy> isn't it?
Dec 14 06:28:29 <ShyBoy> i m not sure what command was it, maybe automake
Dec 14 06:28:38 <ShyBoy> it was for different package though
Dec 14 06:31:25 <ShyBoy> there is a folder called autopackage
Dec 14 06:31:28 <ShyBoy> in my src
Dec 14 06:31:33 <ShyBoy> i.e. in my package
Dec 14 06:31:44 <ShyBoy> but there is no executeable script in there
Dec 14 06:39:20 <JoshTriplett> Does modest have a dedicated channel, or should I ask questions about it here?
Dec 14 06:56:19 <L0cutus> http://www.zamprogno.it/TimeWiki.html#Maemo
Dec 14 06:56:37 <L0cutus> i've ported a new tool, 'Remind' to os2008
Dec 14 06:56:54 <L0cutus> http://www.linux.com/articles/55928
Dec 14 06:57:08 <L0cutus> http://www.roaringpenguin.com/products/remind
Dec 14 07:17:52 <pupnik> ShyBoy: sorry i don't know offhand what's wrong
Dec 14 07:18:35 <K`zan> Night all
Dec 14 07:25:12 <JoshTriplett> In Modest, how can I keep my sent folder and drafts folder on the IMAP server rather than locally?
Dec 14 07:29:57 <gomiam> JoshTriplett: are you able to create IMAP folders through Modest?
Dec 14 07:30:04 <JoshTriplett> gomiam: Yes.
Dec 14 07:30:14 <JoshTriplett> gomiam: Let me doublecheck.
Dec 14 07:30:36 <gomiam> I'll check how to set the default sent folder meanwhile
Dec 14 07:31:14 <JoshTriplett> gomiam: Yes, I can create folders through IMAP.
Dec 14 07:32:47 <gomiam> mmm... as of 2007/12/11 there was no option to set the default Sent folder
Dec 14 07:32:56 <JoshTriplett> gomiam: Hmmm, oh well.
Dec 14 07:33:01 * JoshTriplett files a feature request.
Dec 14 07:33:02 <gomiam> from what I gather at the Internet Table Talk Forums
Dec 14 07:33:13 <JoshTriplett> gomiam: Oh?  Can you point me at a relevant link?
Dec 14 07:33:26 <gomiam> link: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13029
Dec 14 07:33:47 <gomiam> check the first comment by Rebski
Dec 14 07:35:58 <gomiam> anyway, Modesto is still beta. From what I read on that link's thread, there are quite a few bugs crawling there yet.
Dec 14 07:36:10 <gomiam> bleh, Modest
Dec 14 08:10:42 <ShyBoy> how to remove the deb?
Dec 14 08:10:50 <ShyBoy> fakeroot dpkg?
Dec 14 08:17:00 <gomiam> what deb do you want to remov?
Dec 14 08:17:04 <gomiam> remove
Dec 14 08:17:58 <ShyBoy> got it
Dec 14 08:17:59 <ShyBoy>  fakeroot dpkg -r tcl8.5
Dec 14 08:18:00 <ShyBoy> thx
Dec 14 09:01:36 <Khertan> Hi !
Dec 14 09:01:41 <Khertan> infobot
Dec 14 09:01:52 <Khertan> infobot help ?
Dec 14 09:02:01 <Khertan> infobot help
Dec 14 09:02:48 <Khertan> infobot help karma
Dec 14 09:23:52 <sp3000> infobot: make me coffee
Dec 14 09:23:53 * infobot brews a nice hot cup of coffee for sp3000
Dec 14 10:07:15 <rothiel> Hello World :)
Dec 14 10:38:31 <[pablo]> does anyone know the specifications for the n810 charger, i'm needing to order a car charger online but don't have one on me
Dec 14 10:39:28 <Khertan> sp3000 > Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked due to spam problems, but you can always message a staffer. Please register! ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )
Dec 14 10:39:36 <Khertan> :)
Dec 14 10:39:42 <tontsa> it can use AC-4 and DC-4 nokia chargers. Also ACP-12 with converter to smaller plug
Dec 14 10:39:54 <[pablo]> tontsa: thanks
Dec 14 10:40:51 <dpb_> according to nokia.com, the package comes with Nokia Travel Charger AC-4
Dec 14 10:41:02 <sp3000> Khertan: ?
Dec 14 10:41:04 <dpb_> and a car holder
Dec 14 10:41:05 <lardman> code still doesn't work in the uk shop
Dec 14 10:41:15 <lardman> :(
Dec 14 10:41:25 <lardman> I'll have to wait 'till tomorrow I suppose
Dec 14 10:41:28 <Khertan> lardman > we are the 14th december
Dec 14 10:41:31 <[pablo]> dpb_: yeah, it's a regular wall plug that doesn't cover up both plugs
Dec 14 10:41:36 <[pablo]> it's not a DC charger
Dec 14 10:42:02 <lardman> Khertan: I thought it said by the 15th, and it's nearly there so I thought I'd follow my daily ritual and try :)
Dec 14 10:42:18 <dpb_> ah
Dec 14 10:42:37 <[pablo]> and it does come with an awesome mounting kit =)
Dec 14 10:44:26 <Khertan> lardman > don't say it but i ve try too this morning :)
Dec 14 11:06:35 <Spakman_> Khertan: have you been using libosso in Ruby?
Dec 14 11:06:38 <Spakman_> hello, BTW :)
Dec 14 11:07:29 <Rocketman> Anyone know how to set the 810's keyboard backlight to have a longer time-out
Dec 14 11:07:35 <Rocketman> ?
Dec 14 11:15:04 <alterego> Hmmm .. Alt+shift+tab isn't working >:(
Dec 14 11:20:16 * alterego attempts to install 64bit debian.
Dec 14 11:20:20 <alterego> It's gonna be wacky fun!
Dec 14 11:21:05 <Khertan> Spakman_ > i ve never use ruby to code anything else than desktop widget :)
Dec 14 11:22:43 <Spakman_> did the widget use libosso?
Dec 14 11:22:48 * Spakman_ crosses fingers
Dec 14 11:44:29 <lardman> oh dear, looks like my memcpy problem might be because something's sitting in extended memory :(
Dec 14 11:45:06 <lardman> far_peek, far_poke, looks painful
Dec 14 11:46:53 <pupnik> wow
Dec 14 11:51:10 <lardman> I wonder what extended memory means in this context?
Dec 14 11:51:46 <lardman> I was thinking the shared system memory mapped via the mmu, but I'm sure that works without these far_*() calls (i.e. ipbuf stuff)
Dec 14 11:54:39 <lardman> hmm, yes the ipbuf section is in EXTMEM2
Dec 14 11:55:41 <alterego> No such luck ..
Dec 14 11:57:29 <lardman> When using P2 Restricted Mode hardware all C-accessible data objects must reside on the 64K-word data page zero.
Dec 14 11:58:32 <Spakman_> hey alterego. I'm trying to top an aplpication via libosso, but I'm getting an exception I don't understand: #<TypeError: wrong argument type String (expected Data)>. What is a Data? I've just been passing the string name of the application.
Dec 14 11:58:35 <hahlo> Can I write sms with os2007 and send it with bt to some phone which delivers it further?
Dec 14 11:58:48 <lardman> yes, use gnokii
Dec 14 11:59:21 <hahlo> thanks
Dec 14 11:59:24 <alterego> Spakman_, can I see your code?
Dec 14 12:00:09 <alterego> Actually, there's not much I can do right now. All my ruby-maemo stuff is on a different machine :/
Dec 14 12:01:04 <Spakman_> alterego: OSSO::Application.top "knowway", nil
Dec 14 12:02:49 <hahlo> lardman: from where I find gnokii for os2007?
Dec 14 12:03:49 <lardman> for the 770 it's here: http://trifinite.org/trifinite_downloads.html
Dec 14 12:03:54 <lardman> but I just compiled it myself
Dec 14 12:04:02 <alterego> Spakman_, it should work ..
Dec 14 12:04:11 <lardman> or rather when I wanted to try it I compiled it myself
Dec 14 12:04:59 <lardman> http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2007/communications?org_openpsa_qbpager_org_openpsa_products_product_dba_page=2
Dec 14 12:05:01 <lardman> phonelink
Dec 14 12:05:12 <lardman> used libgnokii and should be compiled for os2007
Dec 14 12:05:49 <hahlo> thanks again
Dec 14 12:05:56 <lardman> np
Dec 14 12:07:21 <alterego> Interesting ..
Dec 14 12:08:28 <alterego> Oh ..
Dec 14 12:08:31 <alterego> I see the problem.
Dec 14 12:08:40 <alterego> Spakman_, you're using the wrong api ..
Dec 14 12:08:52 <Spakman_> proxy method instead?
Dec 14 12:08:57 <alterego> Spakman_, context.application.top "whatever"
Dec 14 12:09:07 <alterego> Yes, otherwise you need to supply the context/
Dec 14 12:09:23 <alterego> I thought that nil looked weird in your code ;)
Dec 14 12:09:32 <alterego> OSSO::Application.top context, "blah"
Dec 14 12:09:43 <alterego> Or: context.application.top "blah"
Dec 14 12:11:08 <alterego> Fancy you doing that wrong on the best documented ruby-maemo module ^_^
Dec 14 12:11:51 <Spakman_> :)
Dec 14 12:12:40 <alterego> I'm glad it wasn't a bug though. As I've not setup scratchbox yet.
Dec 14 12:12:55 <alterego> I'm building the VE for scratchbox now though.
Dec 14 12:13:06 <Spakman_> ah, cool
Dec 14 12:13:25 <Spakman_> hmm, I don't get the exception anymore (or any exception, for that matter), but my app isn't topped
Dec 14 12:13:26 <alterego> I'm loving this KVM stuff ..
Dec 14 12:13:53 <Spakman_> alterego: yes, I just started using KVM too, it's great
Dec 14 12:14:24 <pupnik> Fri Dec 14 13:13:06 CET 2007
Dec 14 12:14:30 <alterego> It took about 10 minutes to install XP.
Dec 14 12:14:38 <alterego> Not sure what I'm gonna do with it though ^_^
Dec 14 12:21:29 <Spakman_> alterego: in my Ruby desktop plugin, I can enable it and it works fine. Then I disable it (also fine) and try to re-enable it and the whole GUI restarts. Anything obvious I'm doing wrong?
Dec 14 12:22:09 <alterego> Not that I can think of. My test plugin seems to work fine ..
Dec 14 12:22:31 <alterego> I should get my ass in gear and release 0.4.1 it stops crashes and gives you error messages.
Dec 14 12:23:16 <Spakman_> ah, cool
Dec 14 12:23:57 <alterego> Yeah, it's nice. Though the current error reporting strategy is a bit messy. So I need to work on that.
Dec 14 12:25:01 <alterego> I plan on creating a ruby daemon, which is launched when a ruby app is started. That daemon will handle error reporting. But I'm not going to work on that for a while. So I need to make the error reporting strategy with that in mind.
Dec 14 12:26:16 <alterego> I see planet maemo is down again ..
Dec 14 12:26:19 <timeless> hello world
Dec 14 12:26:22 <alterego> Well, not updating ..
Dec 14 12:26:30 <timeless> can someone talk me through deb packaging? :)
Dec 14 12:26:35 <alterego> timeless, sure :)
Dec 14 12:26:41 <alterego> It's quite simple really.
Dec 14 12:27:01 <timeless> alterego: hello, i'm timeless (not root)
Dec 14 12:27:11 <timeless> i want to make a .deb on a device where i am timeless (not root)
Dec 14 12:27:19 <timeless> the file i want the deb to install needs to be root (not timeless)
Dec 14 12:27:22 <alterego> Oh, _on_ the device ..
Dec 14 12:27:27 <Spakman_> alterego: error reporting sounds good
Dec 14 12:27:30 <timeless> well, in a debian world
Dec 14 12:27:40 <alterego> Have you ran dh_make ?
Dec 14 12:27:48 <timeless> no :)
Dec 14 12:28:06 <alterego> Firstly, go into your source root directory.
Dec 14 12:28:28 <timeless> i don't have sources :)
Dec 14 12:28:49 <alterego> How is your package organised then?
Dec 14 12:29:01 <timeless> DEBIAN/*, tmp/*
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Dec 14 12:32:07 2007
Dec 14 12:34:56 <inz> timeless, rules usually builds the binaries (configure, make) and then uses multitude of debian helpers to create the package itself
Dec 14 12:35:04 <pupnik> Please fasten your seat belts.
Dec 14 12:36:21 <alterego> :)
Dec 14 12:36:57 <timeless> so ....
Dec 14 12:37:08 <timeless> how do i make the file ownership say root/root?
Dec 14 12:37:17 <timeless> drwxr-xr-x timeless/other    0 2007-12-14 05:19:33 ./tmp/usr/lib/
Dec 14 12:37:20 <timeless> is not what i want :)
Dec 14 12:37:48 <halley> chmod?
Dec 14 12:37:58 <timeless> halley: mod is for xrw and friends
Dec 14 12:38:01 <timeless> and i'm not root
Dec 14 12:38:04 <timeless> i'm timeless
Dec 14 12:39:11 <halley> Why did my fingers say chmod when I meant to say chown?  You can't give a file to root.  Root can take a file.
Dec 14 12:39:16 <suihkulokki> rafl: fakeroot
Dec 14 12:39:20 <dpb_> that's why package building it run with fakeroot or something similar
Dec 14 12:39:24 <suihkulokki> s/rafl/timeless/
Dec 14 12:39:25 <infobot> suihkulokki meant: timeless: fakeroot
Dec 14 12:39:32 <timeless> halley: i said i'm not root :)
Dec 14 12:39:33 <suihkulokki> fuck the bots
Dec 14 12:39:57 <timeless> -bash: fakeroot: command not found
Dec 14 12:40:11 <alterego> Uh oh ..
Dec 14 12:40:18 <halley> ugh
Dec 14 12:40:20 <dpb_> well that needs to be installed then.. :)
Dec 14 12:40:23 <alterego> Are you in the SDK?
Dec 14 12:40:29 <timeless> /DEBIAN$ apt-cache search fakeroot|wc -l
Dec 14 12:40:29 <timeless> 0
Dec 14 12:40:32 <timeless> no?
Dec 14 12:40:42 <timeless> i hope i didn't mean to imply i was :)
Dec 14 12:40:46 <halley> s/ugh/infobot is a piece of useless dung/
Dec 14 12:40:47 <timeless> err
Dec 14 12:40:48 <infobot> halley meant: infobot is a piece of useless dung
Dec 14 12:41:01 <timeless> i hope i didn't imply that i was
Dec 14 12:41:04 <dpb_> what distro are you using?
Dec 14 12:41:08 <timeless> nexenta :)
Dec 14 12:41:23 <suihkulokki> I suggest you follow the instructions literally instead of trying to reinvent the wheel without clue :)
Dec 14 12:41:38 <timeless> literally?
Dec 14 12:42:15 * timeless frowns
Dec 14 12:42:27 <timeless> there has to be some simple way to change permissions of files inside an ar[chive]
Dec 14 12:42:39 <dpb_> weird if a debian based distro doesn't have fakeroot...
Dec 14 12:43:37 <timeless> i'm not quite sure it fits the traditional definition of debian based distro
Dec 14 12:43:47 <timeless> because usually when people say that, they mean debian gnu linux based distro
Dec 14 12:43:50 <timeless> and this isn't that :)
Dec 14 12:44:35 <dpb_> I wonder if they build all packages as root then..
Dec 14 12:44:53 * alterego installs scratchbox into his shiny debian etch guest OS.
Dec 14 12:45:08 <timeless> s/scratchbox/dung/
Dec 14 12:45:21 * alterego likes scratchbox ..
Dec 14 12:45:55 <dpb_> "gain-root-command might typically be fakeroot, sudo, super or really." <- does it have super or really then? :)
Dec 14 12:47:00 <alterego> Spakman_, is there an easy way to share files between host and guest OS'?
Dec 14 12:47:28 <alterego> I should probably just setup networking properly and give access to an NFS server ..
Dec 14 12:51:47 <Spakman_> alterego: I've only done it via networking. I imagine, you could do something better though
Dec 14 12:54:23 <alterego> Right
Dec 14 12:54:37 <alterego> I think I'll just setup networking. It's something I'll end up using extensively anyway.
Dec 14 12:55:05 <alterego> Probably use samba instead of NFS. To work with windows better ..
Dec 14 12:56:10 <tontsa> if you are using vmware it has it's own samba integration
Dec 14 12:56:25 <alterego> KVM
Dec 14 12:56:45 <tontsa> oh no idea how that beast works
Dec 14 12:56:54 <alterego> :)
Dec 14 12:57:00 <alterego> Me either, but it's magick :D
Dec 14 12:57:42 <robtaylor> alterego: can't you have a device thats mounted on both os's?
Dec 14 12:58:21 <robtaylor> (with some LVM magic, i expect)
Dec 14 12:58:48 <alterego> Maybe, I've really just started using it ..
Dec 14 12:59:03 <melmoth> problem is to find a filsystem that can handle such a situation.
Dec 14 12:59:20 <melmoth> only one i know is GFS. using plain and simple nfs or samba would be easier
Dec 14 13:00:21 <alterego> Yeah, I'll be using a bit of both. I'm gonna stick my home directory under an NFS mount and then have a storage partition exported with samba.
Dec 14 13:08:03 <solmumaha> oh dear
Dec 14 13:08:31 <solmumaha> portupgrade broke my freebsd
Dec 14 13:15:48 <alterego> Kewl scratchbox is setup :)
Dec 14 13:16:37 <solmumaha> alterego: a weekly thing? ;)
Dec 14 13:16:49 <alterego> No, just got a new desktop.
Dec 14 13:17:01 <alterego> Playing around with guest OSes using KVM
Dec 14 13:17:08 <alterego> Setup one for my maemo SDK.
Dec 14 13:17:15 <alterego> (Also playing with compiz) ..
Dec 14 13:17:48 <alterego> This is going to make my life a _lot_ easier .. (KVM that is) :)
Dec 14 13:18:53 <solmumaha> i thought you wanted a laptop
Dec 14 13:19:15 <alterego> Yeah, I'm still getting a laptop. But this hardware was free ^_^
Dec 14 13:20:50 <solmumaha> stole it?
Dec 14 13:22:09 <alterego> No, it was hidden in a 2U rack mount housing that work were chucking out.
Dec 14 13:22:22 <alterego> So I was like, "Can I have this?" .. they said .. "Sure!"
Dec 14 13:30:46 <Spakman_> alterego: do I need to do anything to unregister my plugin? If I remove it via the applets menu and try to start it again, I get this exception:
Dec 14 13:30:55 <Spakman_> #<OSSO::InitError: OSSO has already been initialized.>
Dec 14 13:31:57 <Khertan> Spakman_ > and on real n800 this crash the whole desktop :)
Dec 14 13:32:27 <alterego> Heh
Dec 14 13:32:34 <Khertan> alterego > no news about new ruby version with powerfull rulezall desktop binding ? :)
Dec 14 13:32:47 <alterego> No news is good news :P
Dec 14 13:32:54 <alterego> I'm working "silently" on it ;)
Dec 14 13:32:56 <Khertan> right
Dec 14 13:33:12 <alterego> I've not finished setting up my SDK yet ;)
Dec 14 13:33:37 <Khertan> just for information, yesterday i ve learned a bit more ruby and i've seen this sleep kernel method ...
Dec 14 13:34:08 <Khertan> so why not make a glib::timeout ... destroy it a call a while(true) loop with a sleep timeout ...
Dec 14 13:34:13 <Khertan> that s a real bad idea :)
Dec 14 13:34:31 <Khertan> this eat up cpu ... and freeze all things :)
Dec 14 13:34:37 <alterego> Heh
Dec 14 13:34:55 <Khertan> i ve tryed a restart ... hum ... freeze when maemo-desktop is launch
Dec 14 13:35:05 <Khertan> so i ve think ... hum i ll try by ssh at home
Dec 14 13:35:15 <Khertan> and when i was at home ... (20min later)
Dec 14 13:35:32 <Khertan> i ve see that maemo-desktop has kill the widget ... :)
Dec 14 13:35:34 <Khertan> great :)
Dec 14 13:35:44 <Khertan> and all work again ...
Dec 14 13:36:12 <Khertan> s/has kill/has killed
Dec 14 13:41:47 <Spakman_> does anyone know if I need to do anything in my application to handle a "top" signal via OSSO, or is it all taken care of?
Dec 14 13:42:36 <alterego> It's all taken care of.
Dec 14 13:43:53 <Spakman_> how can my application top itself (er... so to speak ;))
Dec 14 13:45:00 <inz> Spak, please don't
Dec 14 13:48:35 <alterego> Yeah .. Just use libnotify ..
Dec 14 13:48:46 <alterego> Applications that top themselves are damn annoying.
Dec 14 13:48:56 <alterego> Like MicroB ..
Dec 14 13:51:49 <Spakman_> alterego, inz: I was planning to self top when I received an RPC via libosso.
Dec 14 13:52:30 <Spakman_> since context.application.top "myapp" doesn't seem to do anything (but my RPC is working)
Dec 14 13:53:22 <alterego> Why would you recieve an RPC?
Dec 14 13:57:24 <Spakman_> alterego: to explain, I have a desktop plugin that acts as a search interface to my main app. Once I cilck on a search result, I'd like my app to jump to the result (via a callback/rpc) and then come to the top. I've tried this by calling context.application.top "myapp" from the plugin, but without success. My app jumps to the result OK, but doesn't get topped.
Dec 14 13:57:48 <alterego> Hmmm ..
Dec 14 13:58:19 <alterego> Well, that sounds like an issue with LibOSSO not my bindings.
Dec 14 13:58:30 <alterego> You would have thought that top would top an application that's already running.
Dec 14 13:59:23 <Spakman_> do I need to pass anything other than the application name? What sort of things would be in the second argument?
Dec 14 14:05:07 <Tak> damn, writing a ruby library wrapper is a black art
Dec 14 14:05:24 <alterego> Heh
Dec 14 14:05:27 <alterego> What are you trying to do Tak?
Dec 14 14:06:00 <alterego> Spakman_, top just calls a program via the command line. The second argument is parameters to the command.
Dec 14 14:06:26 <Tak> heh, right now I'm just trying to get a class to show up inside a module
Dec 14 14:06:30 <alterego> If you want to put your window at the top of the stack. You're probably looking for something in Gtk.
Dec 14 14:06:49 <Tak> eventually I was going to write a wrapper for lightmediascanner
Dec 14 14:06:50 <alterego> Tak, rb_define_class_under(module, "ClassName", rb_cObject);
Dec 14 14:07:07 <Tak> yeah, I did that, but it doesn't show up under irb after I compile, etc
Dec 14 14:07:25 <alterego> Can I see the code?
Dec 14 14:08:20 <Tak> hmm - the problem is with my C
Dec 14 14:08:43 <Tak> if I make everything nonstatic, it's happy
Dec 14 14:09:02 <alterego> Yeah, show me the code :P
Dec 14 14:10:40 <Tak> http://rafb.net/p/xf21SV30.html
Dec 14 14:11:50 <|tbb|> anyone got adblock on os2008 running?
Dec 14 14:11:55 <Mikho> would somebody know where could I find instructions how to play simple sound clips in maemo?
Dec 14 14:12:05 <alterego> Eesh, C++ comments in C code ..
Dec 14 14:12:10 <alterego> Are you insane? :P
Dec 14 14:12:25 <Mikho> what's wrong with c++ comments?
Dec 14 14:12:28 <Tak> I refuse to use the retarded c-style comments
Dec 14 14:12:35 <|tbb|> dont have the red ball which is descriped here http://browser-extras.garage.maemo.org/news/5/
Dec 14 14:12:39 <Mikho> Tak, I agree
Dec 14 14:13:03 <inz> Mikho, #include <hildon/hildon-sound.h> hildon_play_system_sound("simple_sound_clip.wav");
Dec 14 14:13:22 <Mikho> oh
Dec 14 14:13:24 <alterego> Meh, I'd never use C++ comments in C code.
Dec 14 14:13:26 <alterego> It's wrong.
Dec 14 14:13:32 <Mikho> alterego, you're wrong
Dec 14 14:13:34 <alterego> And likely to break something if you ever need to port your code.
Dec 14 14:13:44 <derf> Mikho: No. He's not.
Dec 14 14:13:45 <Mikho> :P
Dec 14 14:13:46 <alterego> Just because GCC "allows" it ..
Dec 14 14:13:49 <Tak> there is no modern C compiler that does not support C++-style comments
Dec 14 14:13:56 <sKaBoy> |tbb|, do you see adblock in the components list? try to load a new page (ex. www.google.com) and look in the bottom right corner.. in the html page, not in the toolbar
Dec 14 14:13:58 <derf> Tak: Yes. There is.
Dec 14 14:14:11 <Mikho> which compilers refuse to take them?
Dec 14 14:14:14 <Tak> derf: I suspect you and I will disagree on what qualifies as "modern" then ;-)
Dec 14 14:14:20 <derf> Lots of embedded toolchains.
Dec 14 14:14:27 <inz> Mikho, do note that hildon_play_system_sound respects the "system sound" volume level setting
Dec 14 14:14:28 <Tak> just be glad I'm not writing to C99 :-P
Dec 14 14:14:31 <Mikho> never seen one
Dec 14 14:14:42 <alterego> You're not?
Dec 14 14:14:43 <Mikho> inz, thanks
Dec 14 14:14:46 <alterego> You should :P
Dec 14 14:14:49 <Tak> wtf
Dec 14 14:14:51 <fcrozat> |tbb|: same problem as you :)
Dec 14 14:14:56 <Tak> C++-style comments are part of C00
Dec 14 14:14:59 <Tak> s/00/99
Dec 14 14:15:19 <alterego> Exactly ..
Dec 14 14:15:30 * Tak blinks
Dec 14 14:15:46 <Tak> so...I /should/ write to C99, but I /shouldn't/ use C++ comments...
Dec 14 14:15:48 <sbz> with -ansi, gcc doesn't accept any C++ comments :)
Dec 14 14:16:05 <alterego> If c99 says C++ comments are okay. Then code in C99 ..
Dec 14 14:16:09 <Tak> meh
Dec 14 14:16:16 <sKaBoy> fcrozat, i see it! and then i've disabled the shortcut.. it was over the scrollbar..
Dec 14 14:16:32 <fcrozat> hmm, let's try again
Dec 14 14:16:45 <fcrozat> btw, the latest greasemonkey package is not installable
Dec 14 14:16:52 <alterego> Why are you declaring a static variable in the header file ?
Dec 14 14:17:10 <Tak> I'll distribute a shell script with my source that changes the comment style :-P
Dec 14 14:17:18 <alterego> Hah
Dec 14 14:17:37 <alterego> I'll add a filter to my SVN if you're going to use it :P
Dec 14 14:17:42 <Mikho> probably even saves time
Dec 14 14:18:34 <Mikho> inz, is there a how-to page or other documentation about the sound system somewhere? Can't find it...
Dec 14 14:19:00 <inz> Mikho, depends on which sound system you want to use ;)
Dec 14 14:19:23 <Mikho> hildon/hildon-sound.h and so on
Dec 14 14:19:48 <inz> Mikho, well, if you read the header file itself, you'll see that there really is not anything else than the _play_system_sound
Dec 14 14:20:36 <inz> Mikho, hildon_play_system_sound uses esd, for esd I've found the best documentation to be the header file
Dec 14 14:20:56 <Mikho> i see
Dec 14 14:21:01 <fcrozat> sKaBoy: no scrollbar here
Dec 14 14:21:03 <inz> Mikho, and if you want to use gstreamer (which might be a leetle overkill for playing simple sounds), it probably has some decent documentation somewhere
Dec 14 14:21:29 <sKaBoy> fcrozat, do you see adblock in components list?
Dec 14 14:21:34 <fcrozat> no
Dec 14 14:21:44 <sKaBoy> oh
Dec 14 14:21:46 <fcrozat> and it is correctly installed
Dec 14 14:21:54 <sKaBoy> restarted browser ?
Dec 14 14:21:56 <fcrozat> I rebooted my n800 :)
Dec 14 14:22:00 <sKaBoy> ok :)
Dec 14 14:22:05 <sKaBoy> dunno then! it works fine for me!
Dec 14 14:22:16 <fcrozat> greasemonkey uninstalled too
Dec 14 14:22:26 <Mikho> ok. Although I have a slight problem of not having speakers in my work computer...
Dec 14 14:22:32 <sKaBoy> i don't have greasemonkey too.. only adblockplus
Dec 14 14:22:48 <fcrozat> I uninstalled both and only reinstalled adblock, no success
Dec 14 14:22:56 <sKaBoy> i have a n800 with os2008
Dec 14 14:22:59 <lardman> ah well I use C++ comments in C code
Dec 14 14:23:17 <fysa> alterego, you notice a difference with the renderdelay setting you changed the other day?
Dec 14 14:23:26 <fcrozat> sKaBoy: same here :)
Dec 14 14:23:27 <lardman> and... the data are now being read correctly! yay! but the byte reading code is not returning what it should
Dec 14 14:23:41 <sKaBoy> fcrozat, then.. file a bug :)
Dec 14 14:23:41 * Tak ^5 lardman 
Dec 14 14:23:51 <inz> Mikho, esd is really simple for simple tasks -- you can play a sound (in a blocking way) with one function call
Dec 14 14:23:52 * Tak ^5 lardman again for correct data read
Dec 14 14:24:42 <lardman> http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/vorbisdec/error2.txt
Dec 14 14:24:57 <fcrozat> sKaBoy: where ? bug report interface has not been enabled on garage for browser-extras :(
Dec 14 14:25:20 <inz> Mikho, non-blocking requires n+2
Dec 14 14:25:23 <Mikho> hrm, I'd actually want non-blocking
Dec 14 14:25:46 <inz> Mikho, sorry, n+4, but anyway
Dec 14 14:25:56 <lardman> expected order is: 79, 103, 103, 83; which works when you read the buffer directly, but the byte reading code seems to switch each 16bit chunk round to bigendian mode
Dec 14 14:27:00 <lardman> perhaps it's an interaction between the endianness of the Neuros processor and the DSP
Dec 14 14:27:14 <Mikho> n+4?
Dec 14 14:36:49 <|tbb|> fcrozat: good to hear
Dec 14 14:36:52 <Mikho> ah, found much more info by searching "EsounD" than esd
Dec 14 14:40:19 <Spakman_> Can anyone tell me how to self-top my app? http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/maemo_architecture.html#AppTopping suggests that's it's possible...
Dec 14 14:40:46 <Spakman_> ...but I don't know how :( - what is a "standard X message"?
Dec 14 14:46:32 <lardman> hmm, I think I might be able to fix my problem with a one character change to oggbyte_readi() (the character being a !)
Dec 14 14:47:15 * lardman feels all warm inside, for the time being
Dec 14 14:51:33 * fcrozat feels sad, coupons aren't yet working on french nokia webstore 
Dec 14 14:53:11 <nomis> fcrozat: neither in the german one.
Dec 14 14:53:31 <fcrozat> hopefully tomorrow..
Dec 14 14:53:42 <fcrozat> since it is supposed to be the deadline
Dec 14 14:53:52 * nomis hopes that he'll get this before christmas.
Dec 14 14:55:45 * fcrozat doesn't hope, so he won't be disappointed ;)
Dec 14 15:02:55 <lopz> re
Dec 14 15:08:20 <Khertan> re
Dec 14 15:13:53 <Khertan> someone know what is the lib version of pygtk on the last pymaemo release ,
Dec 14 15:13:55 <Khertan> ?
Dec 14 15:23:25 <sKaBoy> Khertan, dpkg reports 2.12.0
Dec 14 15:35:08 <Khertan> ok thanks
Dec 14 15:40:10 <lardman> So do we reckon the codes will start working at 12 midnight GMT?
Dec 14 15:40:25 <alterego> Hah, like f*ck they will :P
Dec 14 15:40:37 <alterego> I doubt they'll be working until Monday.
Dec 14 15:41:04 <alterego> s/Monday/January 2009/
Dec 14 15:41:05 <infobot> alterego meant: I doubt they'll be working until January 2009.
Dec 14 15:41:11 <lardman> hmm
Dec 14 15:41:37 <lardman> well there's no reason to expect them to not meet the target they set
Dec 14 15:41:49 <alterego> One would presume they said the 15th as a buffer for the changes in timezones. I'd also guess they were planning on getting it done _today_ ..
Dec 14 15:42:04 <alterego> What, mid-November?
Dec 14 15:42:13 <alterego> Maybe they meant 2008 ..
Dec 14 15:42:20 <lardman> From my read it was *by* the 15th, so I'd assumed various stores would come online before then
Dec 14 15:42:56 <fcrozat> well, it has started appearing on many european shops since last saturday
Dec 14 15:43:41 <fcrozat> s/shops/nokia webshops/
Dec 14 15:43:42 <infobot> fcrozat meant: well, it has started appearing on many european nokia webshops since last saturday
Dec 14 15:43:50 <Khertan> Product not found.
Dec 14 15:43:56 <fcrozat> infobot: thanks :p
Dec 14 15:43:57 <infobot> fcrozat: gern geschehen
Dec 14 15:43:58 <Khertan> still not available from france ;)
Dec 14 15:44:19 <fcrozat> Khertan: it is available on nokia france website, but full price only :p
Dec 14 15:44:50 <alterego> Yeah, it's on nokia.co.uk's shop
Dec 14 15:45:09 <alterego> Maybe it does work and I'm ordering it wrong.
Dec 14 15:45:12 <Khertan> fcrozat > yes of course ... i'm talking about this famous direct.nokia.com store where i suppose discount code will work
Dec 14 15:45:27 <fcrozat> Khertan: no, this shop is closed for France now
Dec 14 15:45:34 <alterego> I presumed the "promotion code" field was where we enter the code. But maybe it's not. I've not bothered checking out properly ..
Dec 14 15:45:37 <fcrozat> you are supposed to go to boutique.nokia.com now
Dec 14 15:45:48 <fcrozat> sorry, .fr
Dec 14 15:46:20 <fcrozat> I called Nokia Direct in belgium on wednesday (for another other)) and they told me they don't manage the new french webshop
Dec 14 15:46:27 <fcrozat> s/other/order/
Dec 14 15:46:28 <infobot> fcrozat meant: I called Nokia Direct in belgium on wednesday (for anorder other)) and they told me they don't manage the new french webshop
Dec 14 15:46:33 <derf> When I ordered my N800, I had to call them up and do it over the phone.
Dec 14 15:46:42 <derf> I never got the discount code to work with the online shop.
Dec 14 15:46:44 <alterego> Holy sh*t, Nokia say that the final ordering date to get products before Christmas is the 16th!
Dec 14 15:46:59 <derf> Even the guy I called had to transfer me to three different people before they found one who had any idea what I was talking about.
Dec 14 15:47:08 <alterego> Has anyone tried ordering it over the phone yet? :)
Dec 14 15:47:11 <Khertan> alterego > lol
Dec 14 15:47:22 <Khertan> not me ... but maybe we should try :)
Dec 14 15:47:34 <fcrozat> alterego: or 19th if you pay express shipping :)
Dec 14 15:47:37 <alterego> Yes .. Maybe we sould ..
Dec 14 15:47:46 <derf> I mean, the N810 codes aren't active yet, are they?
Dec 14 15:47:53 <Khertan> but haven't the time now :)
Dec 14 15:47:54 <fcrozat> derf: no
Dec 14 15:48:02 <fcrozat> but you credit card code is already active :)
Dec 14 15:48:08 <alterego> I'm not paying £10 just because Nokia use crap expensive mailing people.
Dec 14 15:49:02 <alterego> I bet they plan on getting it done by tomorrow. But something'll screw up and we wont get devices before Christmas.
Dec 14 15:49:37 <alterego> There are people all over the world that have N810's already. And those of us that are the fortunate 500 are stuck waiting.
Dec 14 15:49:54 <alterego> Not the best of stratagies me things.
Dec 14 15:49:55 <fcrozat> on the other hand, we are getting a discount, it is already a nice thing
Dec 14 15:49:57 <alterego> ~thinks ..
Dec 14 15:50:16 <alterego> Sure, but all those people that already have tablets and no software are losing out.
Dec 14 15:50:31 <derf> What are you talking about? The development environment is there.
Dec 14 15:50:31 <fcrozat> you don't need a n810 to develop on it ;)
Dec 14 15:50:41 <derf> Surely you didn't want to _run_ your software before releasing it?
Dec 14 15:50:43 <alterego> fcrozat, yes you do.
Dec 14 15:50:58 <alterego> How can you develop on something you don't have?
Dec 14 15:51:06 <alterego> Sure, you can develop _in_ the SDK ..
Dec 14 15:51:18 <alterego> But I can't write Ruby apps _on_ a device I don't have :P
Dec 14 15:51:41 <derf> Sounds like a personal problem to me.
Dec 14 15:52:10 <fcrozat> derf: like children waiting for their christmas present :)
Dec 14 15:52:56 <alterego> I don't really mind. But if this is the last device that's going to have a developer/device program, I think they could have had a slightly better strategy.
Dec 14 15:54:02 <Khertan> what i think is this device isn't only for dev ...
Dec 14 15:54:17 <Khertan> there is blogger too which have get a discount code
Dec 14 15:54:17 <alterego> Eh?
Dec 14 15:54:35 <Khertan> so i think they wait until a more stable os2008 release
Dec 14 15:54:44 <alterego> What?
Dec 14 15:54:47 <alterego> That makes no sense ..
Dec 14 15:54:52 <Khertan> to be sure there is less bad comment
Dec 14 15:54:53 <Khertan> in blog
Dec 14 15:54:56 <alterego> You can already buy N810's ..
Dec 14 15:55:01 <alterego> It's the developers that can't ..
Dec 14 15:55:01 <tontsa> os2008 is pretty stable except for the bluetooth.. atleast when connected to E70
Dec 14 15:55:22 <alterego> Developers/Contributors.
Dec 14 15:56:05 <tontsa> well just this week those n810 started pouring to .fi shops, before it was few units here and there
Dec 14 15:56:20 <Khertan> pss : i ve take a look at the Karma on maemo.org ... hum ... i think it need some adjustement
Dec 14 15:56:55 <Khertan> i'm in the top 25 with a 265 karma point ... and you alterego you have only something around 67...
Dec 14 15:57:32 <alterego> 69
Dec 14 15:57:35 <Khertan> and your ruby port is most precious than my little small applications ...
Dec 14 15:57:57 <lardman> I've been knocked off the front page!
Dec 14 15:58:02 <lardman> oh well
Dec 14 15:58:02 <Khertan> (arround doesn't remember)
Dec 14 15:59:40 <lardman> Someone send me an IM for the first time today (on the N800 that is)
Dec 14 15:59:56 <lardman> I was quite impressed, except that it will be muich nicer with a keyboard so you can see the screen
Dec 14 16:01:01 <Khertan> :)
Dec 14 16:01:02 <alterego> Khertan, my karma seems about right. I do watch it pretty closely.
Dec 14 16:01:53 <alterego> So, who's gonna stay up till midnight and try and place an order?
Dec 14 16:02:07 <alterego> I'm out this evening, but I'll try when I get back ^_^
Dec 14 16:02:09 <Khertan> what i mean is that your karma point should be higher ...
Dec 14 16:02:16 <Khertan> i'm out too ....
Dec 14 16:02:28 <fysa> whoop, crashed
Dec 14 16:02:31 <alterego> Khertan, sure. Unfortunately whatever God that maemo believes in isn't all seeing ;)
Dec 14 16:02:42 <lardman> midnight gmt I can manage, not sure about midnight Finnish time tho
Dec 14 16:02:52 <lardman> oh, that's earlier isn;'t it
Dec 14 16:03:02 <lardman> been a long day, time to go home me thinks
Dec 14 16:03:08 <fysa> alterego, get my message on that about:config paintdelay setting?
Dec 14 16:03:12 <Khertan> lardman > it france midnight - 1
Dec 14 16:03:16 <alterego> Yeah, we should check now. It's midnight already in Australia.
Dec 14 16:03:25 <Khertan> it s france midnight - 1 hours :)
Dec 14 16:03:45 <alterego> "The coupon code that you have entered is invalid"
Dec 14 16:03:48 <alterego> :(
Dec 14 16:03:50 <Khertan> lol
Dec 14 16:03:55 <Tak> are we comparing timezones now?  mine's bigger!
Dec 14 16:04:06 <lardman> ah, but mine's the original ;)
Dec 14 16:04:27 <alterego> It's actually 3am in Melbourne ..
Dec 14 16:04:47 <Khertan> 5am here
Dec 14 16:05:01 <alterego> This kind of reminds me when you're a kid, and you wait up sitting under the Christmas tree for Santa ^_^
Dec 14 16:05:33 <Khertan> right :)
Dec 14 16:05:52 <alterego> Where are you Khertan?
Dec 14 16:06:01 <lardman> NZ?
Dec 14 16:06:03 <alterego> It's 5am in NZ ..
Dec 14 16:06:34 <lardman> 5am on a school/work night!
Dec 14 16:06:40 <Khertan> alterego > remember than when you apply for the dev program you have choose a nokia store
Dec 14 16:06:49 <alterego> Think of all those Russians and Chinese trying to order N810's _right_ now :D
Dec 14 16:06:52 <Khertan> so i think code is ok only for this store.
Dec 14 16:07:07 <alterego> Khertan, sure. And I chose the UK shop.
Dec 14 16:07:27 <Khertan> oups i mean 5pm
Dec 14 16:07:48 <alterego> Khertan, oh. Well you're still in the 14th
Dec 14 16:08:00 <alterego> I'm saying there are quite a few countries now that are in the 15th ..
Dec 14 16:08:39 <fnordianslip> Hi.  My first ever time using IRC is a question about OS2008 on n800...
Dec 14 16:08:48 <Khertan> in the 14th ?
Dec 14 16:09:15 <alterego> The date, where _you_) are!
Dec 14 16:09:20 <Khertan> ah !
Dec 14 16:09:21 <Khertan> :)
Dec 14 16:09:27 <Khertan> 14th :(
Dec 14 16:09:44 <fnordianslip> Trying to upgrade libsofia-sip-ua0 but have strange dependency problem.
Dec 14 16:10:08 <lardman> Khertan: so you're not in NZ then, it all becomes clear
Dec 14 16:10:20 <fnordianslip> anyone else seen it?
Dec 14 16:10:36 <lardman> fnordianslip: what's the error?
Dec 14 16:10:48 <lardman> if it's long use pastebin
Dec 14 16:11:19 <Khertan> lardman > no i'm not in nz :)
Dec 14 16:11:35 <Khertan> just try to cheat with proxy ... but code refused :)
Dec 14 16:12:33 <alterego> Heh
Dec 14 16:12:44 <alterego> That wouldn't work if the codes are locked to location anyway ..
Dec 14 16:12:58 <Khertan> yes
Dec 14 16:13:08 <Khertan> it was i remember me the location pref when i apply :)
Dec 14 16:13:13 <alterego> What we need to do is phone a fortunate 500 in NZ ..
Dec 14 16:13:21 <Khertan> lol
Dec 14 16:13:29 <lardman> I doubt they'd be happy being woken at 5am :)
Dec 14 16:13:33 <alterego> Or Aus, or China ..
Dec 14 16:13:42 <alterego> It's only midnight in China ..
Dec 14 16:13:42 <fnordianslip> in AppMan, dependency shown to libsofia-sip-ua0(=1.12.6-0osso8) ...
Dec 14 16:13:48 <alterego> I'm sure there are plenty of Chinese awake.
Dec 14 16:13:59 <Khertan> i think that we will get a new os2008 release today too ... but it 's 18pm in finland ... so not today
Dec 14 16:14:13 <lardman> or, we could wait <8hrs 'till the 15th starts in GMT
Dec 14 16:14:21 <fnordianslip> think the '=' character might be causing the problem, as i seem to have the right lib already
Dec 14 16:14:42 <Tak> fnordianslip: that means it depends on that specific version of that package
Dec 14 16:15:01 <Khertan> lardman > too long ... have you never to find xmas package before xmas when you ve been a kid ? :)
Dec 14 16:15:12 <Khertan> s/never/never try
Dec 14 16:15:24 <alterego> Cool, ad blocker for microb ..
Dec 14 16:15:27 * alterego installs.
Dec 14 16:15:27 <lardman> Khertan: yeah, I know, but I've waited this long, a little longer won't hurt me
Dec 14 16:15:54 <Khertan> yeah ... me too :)
Dec 14 16:16:13 <Khertan> but funny to chat about :)
Dec 14 16:16:50 <lardman> fnordianslip: you said you're trying to upgrade libsofia-sip-ua0? Why? The error message is for some other package presumably, is it saying that no it won't upgrade as something else needs that version?
Dec 14 16:17:35 <fnordianslip> tak: tnx.  I grok that, but wonder if that = needs to be there, as the dependency is satified, the osso8 0acakg3 8s 8ns5all3d.  is the '=' a typo somewhere
Dec 14 16:18:05 <fnordianslip> oops. damn su8w kebd takes some getting used to.
Dec 14 16:18:21 <alterego> Waste of money.
Dec 14 16:18:25 <fnordianslip> lol
Dec 14 16:18:58 <alterego> I opted for a 21cm wide USB micro keyboard ..
Dec 14 16:19:10 <alterego> It's perfect. Has _all_ the buttons on a regular qwerty ..
Dec 14 16:20:01 <fnordianslip> i don't know which package pulled the sofia stuff in, but it won't upgrade and I think the package metadata has a typo
Dec 14 16:20:07 <Tak> fnordianslip: the syntax looks right to me
Dec 14 16:20:26 <Tak> because it can also be >, <, >=, <=, ...
Dec 14 16:20:33 <lardman> if it really depends on that version then the metadata are correct, but usually one sees >= I think
Dec 14 16:20:56 <lardman> anyway, home time, bye chaps
Dec 14 16:21:22 <fnordianslip> k. i'll investigate further. tnx.
Dec 14 16:27:07 <Khertan> i'll go to home ... bye
Dec 14 16:30:04 <fnordianslip> regarding my lib-sofia-ua0 problem.  the lib is present and shown by AppMan as being present.  What might be wrong?  Can I force the upgrade somehow using apt-get?
Dec 14 16:31:07 <fnordianslip> er.  got the lib name wrong in last msg.
Dec 14 16:31:32 <fnordianslip> i'll do it right if anone cares...
Dec 14 16:32:22 <flip^> is there any news on when n800 users will get a non-beta release of os2008?
Dec 14 16:32:43 <Khertan> flip^ > in few times
Dec 14 16:34:16 <flip^> in few times?
Dec 14 16:34:41 <sKaBoy> fnordianslip, appmamnager tells you that a program that you are installing/uphrading requires that library at that exact version and you don't have it.. so.. what you are installing/upgrading?
Dec 14 16:35:08 <marcelo> hi
Dec 14 16:35:20 <marcelo> has anyone flashed a n810 in macOS X?
Dec 14 16:37:59 <fnordianslip> sKaBoy.  Do you like Ska?  I'm just trying to run the upgrades offered in AppMan (Red Pill).  Seems that the dependency is satisfied from wot i can tell, but neither AppMan nor apt-get will install it.
Dec 14 16:40:07 <Tak> maybe he likes Ka
Dec 14 16:40:34 <fnordianslip> the Ford thingy?  I shouldnt think so.
Dec 14 16:40:50 <sKaBoy> nah, the music :)
Dec 14 16:41:08 <fnordianslip> Ka?  music?
Dec 14 16:41:16 <Tak> no, not the ford thingy
Dec 14 16:41:23 <Tak> the thingy from The Dark Tower
Dec 14 16:41:28 <sKaBoy> fnordianslip, don't know then..
Dec 14 16:41:35 <fnordianslip> lol.  Come from Coventry and met most of the Specials.
Dec 14 16:41:36 <sKaBoy> ska, the music!
Dec 14 16:41:48 <sKaBoy> cool
Dec 14 16:41:57 <fnordianslip> long time ago tho
Dec 14 16:42:45 <fnordianslip> so, can i force the package upgrade thu apt-get?
Dec 14 16:42:58 <rothiel> bonne soirée les gens
Dec 14 16:44:10 <red-zack> mh, what do i need to watch youtube vids on my 770?
Dec 14 16:44:53 <Tak> heh, jour ici
Dec 14 16:45:30 <pupnik> red-zack: i download em and run mplayer - you can also download the python script "youtube-dl" and i think uktube works on 770 also
Dec 14 16:46:22 <red-zack> pupnik: sure, a vid downloader is possible. but watch them directly via web, /java/flash/wackowacko/foo isnt?
Dec 14 16:46:23 <Tak> I wonder if the videodownloader extension(s) would work with microb
Dec 14 16:46:45 <Tak> I think youtube requires a newer version of flash than is available for 770
Dec 14 16:46:50 <pupnik> i installed flash9 on opera (i think) - lemme try for fun
Dec 14 16:48:31 <pupnik> i'm bummed, nokia.de now has N810s but no email about activation code
Dec 14 16:48:36 <pupnik> should i just call the store?
Dec 14 16:48:48 <pupnik> and try to give my code?
Dec 14 16:50:14 <pupnik> youtube in browser not showing video red-zack
Dec 14 16:50:20 <pupnik> it's all corrupted
Dec 14 16:50:36 <red-zack> gr
Dec 14 16:51:04 <fysa> video downloader with a couple of mods would be perfect for youtube.
Dec 14 16:51:14 <red-zack> no youporn and no youtube. gr
Dec 14 16:51:19 <__Handful__> has anyone tried flashing the n810 with that flasher-macosx?
Dec 14 16:51:32 <red-zack> vid dl are pissing me
Dec 14 16:52:09 <fysa> then spend money and get a new maemo device
Dec 14 16:52:23 <red-zack> gr, money, grr.
Dec 14 16:52:24 <fysa> you didn't buy the 770 on the promise of flash pornography.
Dec 14 16:53:12 <red-zack> "wuuhh pornography"
Dec 14 16:53:29 <Tak> fysa: maybe YOU didn't!
Dec 14 16:54:11 <fysa> {QQ}
Dec 14 16:54:13 <pupnik> it's not like you can't download them.
Dec 14 16:54:30 <fysa> download a bunch on your PC, then use mplayer to watch them.
Dec 14 16:57:59 <fnordianslip> Handful: not an 810 but an 800 with OS2008 - works fine on intel
Dec 14 16:58:42 <fysa> I can tell now that moving downwind walking distance of a half-dozen delicious restaurants is going to be very bad.
Dec 14 17:03:08 <Tak> any lightmediascanner people about?
Dec 14 17:03:12 <__Handful__> fnordianslip: yes.. I used also =) but now.. quite "scare"
Dec 14 17:03:16 <__Handful__> Tak: maybe me
Dec 14 17:03:43 <__Handful__> Tak: do you need something?
Dec 14 17:03:54 <__Handful__> I think gustavo uploaded the packages yesterday to garage
Dec 14 17:04:37 <Tak> I'm wondering - is there a way to add an already-instantiated parser?  e.g. an lms_plugin_t* instance, rather than a .so path?
Dec 14 17:05:23 <Tak> ...and would this be a better conversation for #canola ?
Dec 14 17:05:46 <fnordianslip> Handful: not sure what you mean ???
Dec 14 17:06:56 <__Handful__> fnordianslip: I am scare to try with the n810
Dec 14 17:07:31 <__Handful__> Tak: well for that I think you will need to email gustavo ( barbieri@gmail.com ) maybe he can answer you in a couple hours
Dec 14 17:08:17 <fnordianslip> well, i thought i'd bricked this n800 a few times, but flashing has always worked for me from Linux and MacIntel
Dec 14 17:09:07 <Tak> it's not a fantastically huge deal - I'll catch him when he's around
Dec 14 17:11:27 <__Handful__> ok =)
Dec 14 17:11:47 <__Handful__> fnordianslip: yeah =) thanks for the info.. I think I will try it later heeheh
Dec 14 17:12:29 <fnordianslip> are u gonna dual boot or is there an upgrade for th 810?
Dec 14 17:14:36 <__Handful__> I just want a clean install
Dec 14 17:14:37 <pupnik> hmm, i can see the fnordianslip!
Dec 14 17:15:15 <__Handful__> I want to test canola2 on the n810 (there was only one) and it was there before I started the last trip
Dec 14 17:16:57 <fnordianslip> I don't expect you'll have any problems then.
Dec 14 17:17:57 <fnordianslip> its flasher-2.0.macosx i've been using
Dec 14 17:18:18 <Andy80> hi all
Dec 14 17:19:01 <__Handful__> fnordianslip: thanks.. I will test it today =)
Dec 14 17:34:25 <giskard> ciao andrea
Dec 14 17:34:33 <giskard> i read your post about nokia italia ;)
Dec 14 17:35:02 <giskard> thank you for give us hope
Dec 14 17:35:03 <giskard> ;)
Dec 14 17:35:30 <Andy80> hi :)
Dec 14 17:35:45 <Andy80> but I've the same informations that all have
Dec 14 17:35:47 <Andy80> nothing more
Dec 14 17:51:48 <ustunozgur> hi friends; i have purchased an n800 but since I'm not in US I made it sent to a friend in US. However, she says that the device couldnt recognize the wireless networks around except two. Since I dont have access to the device now, what are the options and possible reasons? do you think it would be solved by a software update?
Dec 14 17:52:01 <lardman> derf: do you happen to know whether there's an explanation of the ogg crc algorithm floating around somewhere?
Dec 14 17:52:46 <dragorn> Anyone know any tricks for speeding up cairo rendering on maemo?
Dec 14 17:52:59 <dragorn> (code-wise, I mean)
Dec 14 17:53:27 <dragorn> Right now I'm doing offscreen rendering to a cairo surface then blitting that across as the gtk update event
Dec 14 17:53:38 <lardman> ah ha, this might be just the thing for me http://xiph.org/vorbis/doc/framing.html
Dec 14 17:54:33 <ustunozgur> can it be due to 802.11n?
Dec 14 17:54:57 <dragorn> 11n would have little to nothing to do with it
Dec 14 17:55:03 <fysa> an 802.11n router may need to be set to g/n mode
Dec 14 17:55:18 <dragorn> if you're trying t connect to a specific network known to be 11n, yes
Dec 14 17:55:24 <fysa> broadcast SSID may be turned off, which wouldn't keep the device from connecting
Dec 14 17:55:27 <dragorn> it would have to allow 11g clients.
Dec 14 17:55:30 <fysa> but would keep it from finding the network
Dec 14 17:56:05 <dragorn> fysa: Depends on the filtering methods in the display.  Strictly speaking, no.  If the maemo display code filters out HT-only networks, then yes.
Dec 14 17:56:07 <ustunozgur> ok, thanks. is there a way to understand if the connection is 802.11n or not without going to router settings?
Dec 14 17:56:48 <dragorn> if the complaint is simply "not seeing a lot of networks around", which is how I interpreted it, unless you're not seeing a known network, that's a fuzzy thing to diagnose
Dec 14 17:57:27 <fysa> there's not
Dec 14 17:57:32 <fysa> you need to get into the router settings and check.
Dec 14 17:57:53 <fysa> there was a bug where the N800 could not see any networks if it was in range of an incompatible draft n netowrk.
Dec 14 17:57:55 <ustunozgur> dragorn: and also given that it doesnt see a lot and the probability of them being all 11n is low i guess
Dec 14 17:58:08 <ustunozgur> ok, thanks.
Dec 14 17:58:14 <fysa> try setting the router to G *only* first
Dec 14 17:58:24 <fysa> and make sure broadcast SSID is turned on.
Dec 14 17:58:25 <dragorn> fysa: really
Dec 14 17:58:32 <dragorn> fysa: I hadn't heard that
Dec 14 17:58:43 <fysa> maybe you should read up on it then :P
Dec 14 17:58:47 <dragorn> fysa: That's a good bug, there. :)
Dec 14 17:58:50 <fysa> ;)
Dec 14 17:58:55 <dragorn> Got a link?
Dec 14 17:59:07 <fysa> https://maemo.org/bugzilla/
Dec 14 17:59:09 <fysa> should be there
Dec 14 17:59:41 <dragorn> yeah I don't have the time to go searching through tht, I'll just bring up some HT networks and see what happens
Dec 14 17:59:47 <ustunozgur> oh then would that mean, even if a neighbour for example had that particular draft n router, it would make n800 blind?
Dec 14 18:00:05 <ustunozgur> strange
Dec 14 18:00:07 <fysa> possibly(?) -- but I would just try those things first
Dec 14 18:00:14 <fysa> 802.11n routers themselves have issues
Dec 14 18:00:30 <fysa> some don't operate properly with n+g simultaneous mode
Dec 14 18:00:44 <ustunozgur> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1459
Dec 14 18:00:49 <fysa> https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=802.11n
Dec 14 18:00:53 <ustunozgur> alright, thank you a lot.
Dec 14 18:01:06 <ustunozgur> i hope it is not a hardware problem.
Dec 14 18:01:16 <fysa> it's firmware-related
Dec 14 18:01:27 <fysa> so it will likely be fixed 'eventually'
Dec 14 18:01:40 <Tak> "could not realloc 'convs': Success"  -- hooray?
Dec 14 18:01:49 <Andy80> does anyone of you use python2.5-gpsbt module?
Dec 14 18:02:34 <fysa> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1656
Dec 14 18:02:41 <fysa> maybe some info there that can help, similar bug
Dec 14 18:02:46 <fysa> (or dupe)
Dec 14 18:08:30 <ustunozgur> ok, thanks fysa
Dec 14 18:15:24 <lardman> hmm, bus error
Dec 14 18:15:31 <lardman> ~lart tremor on the dsp
Dec 14 18:15:31 * infobot says "boot to the head" and knocks tremor on the dsp over
Dec 14 18:15:37 <lardman> :)
Dec 14 18:15:39 <lardman> night
Dec 14 19:26:35 <Tak> http://rafb.net/p/F2BKT229.html
Dec 14 19:39:31 <skibur> any good rss feed link for maemo?
Dec 14 19:47:44 <derf> lardman|gone: The Ogg spec links to http://www.ross.net/crc/download/crc_v3.txt
Dec 14 19:48:06 <derf> direct algorithm, initial val and final XOR = 0, generator polynomial=0x04c11db7
Dec 14 20:06:35 <giskard> yeye
Dec 14 20:06:59 <giskard> the n810 can be purchased also in italy
Dec 14 20:07:47 <giskard> with the discount  code
Dec 14 20:08:00 <pupnik> how how hwo how
Dec 14 20:08:17 <Tak> 10 goto italy
Dec 14 20:08:19 <pupnik> just call up the store and give the code?
Dec 14 20:08:55 * pupnik bangs a bony fist on the desk.
Dec 14 20:09:28 <giskard> Il codice del buono inserito non è valido. == the code you have inserted is not valid
Dec 14 20:09:39 <giskard> buuuuu
Dec 14 20:10:19 <Tak> Bam!
Dec 14 20:35:00 <zapada> how fast can you type on the n800?
Dec 14 20:35:41 <mgedmin> very fast, especially if you've got a full-size usb keyboard :-)
Dec 14 20:36:19 <zapada> what if you are just using the touchscreen keyboard?
Dec 14 20:36:57 <mgedmin> speaking of touchscreen keyboards, the touchscreen on my n800 is off, and I'm unable to calibrate it
Dec 14 20:37:10 <mgedmin> the tap is recognized about half a virtual key's worth to the left
Dec 14 20:37:40 <zapada> andah
Dec 14 20:37:47 <zapada> are they all like that?
Dec 14 20:38:44 <mgedmin> yes
Dec 14 20:39:03 <mgedmin> with the paint tool, if I pick the largest brush, the end of my stylus is on the rightmost side of the circle
Dec 14 20:39:06 <mgedmin> rather than in the center
Dec 14 20:39:15 <fysa> what happens when you calibrate?
Dec 14 20:39:18 <mgedmin> I've tried the screen calibration from the home screen menu a few times, no change
Dec 14 20:39:28 <mgedmin> I deliberately tried to miscalibrate once by hitting to the left of the circles
Dec 14 20:39:31 <mgedmin> no difference
Dec 14 20:39:33 <fysa> if you can't calibrate properly, try calibrating intentionally off the distance that's wrong
Dec 14 20:39:36 <fysa> ah
Dec 14 20:39:40 <mgedmin> do you need to reboot for the calibration settings to take hold?
Dec 14 20:39:52 <fysa> not sure, but worth a shot
Dec 14 20:39:57 <fysa> otherwise you may want to try to backup/reflash
Dec 14 20:40:03 <zapada> are any of you typing from an n800 righ tnow?
Dec 14 20:40:12 <zapada> would i be able to keep up with irc chat on my n800?
Dec 14 20:40:18 <fysa> not at the moment.  I use IRC all the time though
Dec 14 20:40:22 <fysa> X-Chat
Dec 14 20:40:28 * zapada is thinking of buying himself one for christmas ;)
Dec 14 20:40:43 <fysa> it's plenty fast to keep up with a casual conversation.  can get annoying if the conversation gets technical.
Dec 14 20:40:55 <zapada> how technical?
Dec 14 20:40:56 <fysa> I just brought mine on a business trip as a laptop replacement.
Dec 14 20:41:07 <zapada> does it do what most laptops can do?
Dec 14 20:41:10 <fysa> was perfect with an Apple Wireless keyboard
Dec 14 20:41:15 <fysa> (tiny)
Dec 14 20:41:16 <zapada> can you program on the n800?
Dec 14 20:41:22 <zapada> or is it too much of a pain to put in brackets and stuff
Dec 14 20:41:34 <zapada> unless of course you have an external keyboad
Dec 14 20:41:36 <BeBraw> shouldn't py work?
Dec 14 20:41:36 <fysa> I don't suggest you program with the on-screen keyboard.
Dec 14 20:41:47 <fysa> most serious development is done in a VMware instance
Dec 14 20:41:51 <zapada> is it easy to browse websites?
Dec 14 20:42:09 <fysa> for the price I paid at buy.com, I consider it an absolute steal
Dec 14 20:42:14 <zapada> ah, where can i virtualize the n800 os to see what it's like?
Dec 14 20:42:22 <zapada> how much did you pay?
Dec 14 20:42:33 <mgedmin> ooh, apple wireless keyboards are sweet
Dec 14 20:42:39 <fysa> http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/
Dec 14 20:42:42 <BeBraw> if you want to develop software for it, check out scratchbox
Dec 14 20:42:58 <zapada> does xfce work well on the os?
Dec 14 20:43:03 <mgedmin> I wouldn't say web browsing on a n800 is easy, but it is at least possible
Dec 14 20:43:06 <fysa> with an apple wireless keyboard and ssh, I was able to do 'real work' (programming -- few bug fixes, couple SQL statements)
Dec 14 20:43:17 <mgedmin> well, maybe it is easy too, but it is less convenient than browsing on a laptop
Dec 14 20:43:23 <zapada> how much does an apple keyboard cost?
Dec 14 20:43:25 <mgedmin> carrying the n800 around, otoh, is much more convenient than a laptop
Dec 14 20:43:37 <fysa> think of it as a 7 year old laptop that fits in your pocket and doesn't have a keyboard ;)
Dec 14 20:43:47 <zapada> heh
Dec 14 20:44:01 <fysa> are you new to Linux?
Dec 14 20:44:30 <zapada> me?
Dec 14 20:44:31 <pupnik> DOS is the superior operating system
Dec 14 20:44:44 <mgedmin> was
Dec 14 20:44:55 <fysa> yeah, nothing shameful if you're not a Linux pro -- but it helps if you want to tinker around more.
Dec 14 20:44:58 <pupnik> i am being silly http://pupnik.de/dosbox.html
Dec 14 20:45:10 <zapada> how many WPM can you type using the onscreen keyboard
Dec 14 20:45:44 <fysa> never tried testing that
Dec 14 20:46:03 <zapada> also, is there a SNES emulator for maemo?
Dec 14 20:46:50 <fysa> I do a 'relaxed' 80-110 on a regular keyboard, no onscreen keyboard will compete with that and I'm never going to try to do development on it without a keyboard.  just get a foldable bluetooth keyboard if you want something small.
Dec 14 20:47:02 <fysa> I can imagine that even the IR keyboard would be quicker.
Dec 14 20:47:20 <fysa> can probably manage 30-40wpm on the N800 I'm guessing
Dec 14 20:47:49 <fysa> like I said, quick enough for a convo but can be frustrating to use SSH from the onscreen
Dec 14 20:48:00 <zapada> ok
Dec 14 20:48:15 <zapada> is it a good device to write notes on?
Dec 14 20:48:27 <mgedmin> pencil and paper is better :-)
Dec 14 20:48:41 * mgedmin once tried taking lecture notes on his Palm
Dec 14 20:48:49 <mgedmin> it's possible, but not necessarily pleasant
Dec 14 20:49:00 <fysa> if you have a keyboard, it's perfect
Dec 14 20:49:04 <zapada> what about writing quick notes as reminders?
Dec 14 20:49:08 <fysa> quick notes are fine
Dec 14 20:49:08 <zapada> would it be easily accessible for that?
Dec 14 20:49:22 <fysa> zapada: youtube.com
Dec 14 20:49:24 <fysa> search for N800
Dec 14 20:49:33 <fysa> you will find a few reviews -- those helped me in making my decision.
Dec 14 20:49:41 <fysa> I bought this one a few months back and use it every single day.
Dec 14 20:50:01 <fysa> I had the first Palm, a couple WinCE devices..  some dotcom-era web 'tablets'
Dec 14 20:50:11 <fysa> and none of those would stick with me.
Dec 14 20:50:20 <fysa> excuse my language, but fuck 'syncing'
Dec 14 20:50:23 <zapada> if i use it for IM, and web browsing mostly, how long would the battery last?
Dec 14 20:50:32 * mgedmin is very harsh, but wouldn't want to be separated from his beloved N800 for more than 5 minutes
Dec 14 20:50:42 <fysa> I can access my google calendar anywhere, I can get my gmail anywhere
Dec 14 20:50:52 <fysa> (I email all notes to myself via gmail and use labels to tag)
Dec 14 20:50:55 <zapada> does gmail work nicely on the n800?
Dec 14 20:51:03 <fysa> gmail is usable, slightly slow
Dec 14 20:51:13 <fysa> 'Modest' is a gmail-compatible client that is much quicker
Dec 14 20:51:16 <fysa> and in beta now
Dec 14 20:51:18 <zapada> can you run firefox on the n800?
Dec 14 20:51:32 <fysa> comes with MicroB, which is based on the same core as firefox
Dec 14 20:51:40 <fysa> check
Dec 14 20:51:41 <fysa> youtube.
Dec 14 20:51:43 <fysa> watch those reviews.
Dec 14 20:51:55 <zapada> ok
Dec 14 20:51:57 <fysa> as soon as I watched one or two, I knew it was right for me.
Dec 14 20:52:04 <fysa> before that it was just a jumble of info in my head.
Dec 14 20:52:14 <fysa> it's 100% perfect for IM
Dec 14 20:52:19 <fysa> excellent for email
Dec 14 20:52:32 <fysa> usable for browsing (more so than any other device that size or smaller that I've seen)
Dec 14 20:52:41 <zapada> does netvibes.com load?
Dec 14 20:52:46 <zapada> on the n800
Dec 14 20:52:53 <zapada> it has quite extensive javascript
Dec 14 20:53:10 <fysa> if it works on firefox, it should work on the N800
Dec 14 20:53:23 <mgedmin> heh, is IMAP called "gmail-compatible" these days? :)
Dec 14 20:53:44 <fysa> mgedmin: now that I get my labels?  yes ;)
Dec 14 20:53:54 <mgedmin> when's the official OS2008 upgrade for the N800?
Dec 14 20:54:04 <fysa> not sure
Dec 14 20:54:12 <mgedmin> the older OS came with an Opera-based browser, OS2008 comes with a Mozilla-based one
Dec 14 20:54:33 <zapada> has anyone here installed a sshd on their n800?
Dec 14 20:55:12 <fysa> yes, works fine
Dec 14 20:55:34 <fysa> rsync/scp work
Dec 14 20:56:10 <zapada> is that little camera a separate thing to buy?
Dec 14 20:56:20 <mgedmin> no, it's built-in
Dec 14 20:56:28 <zapada> sweet
Dec 14 20:56:41 <mgedmin> doesn't work very well when it's dark
Dec 14 20:56:42 <mgedmin> or darkish
Dec 14 20:57:19 <zapada> is the wifi reception good?
Dec 14 20:57:54 <fysa> better than my laptop was
Dec 14 20:58:13 <zapada> have you stopped using your laptop because of the n800?
Dec 14 20:59:16 <fysa> sold my laptop, got the N800 before getting a replacement, have yet to get a replacement
Dec 14 20:59:38 <fysa> if you do heavy MS Office-type stuff on a laptop, this may not be so hot.
Dec 14 20:59:42 <zapada> i was thinking of buying a laptop recently until i saw someone on campus with an n800 last week
Dec 14 20:59:49 <fysa> so why don't you ask to try it?
Dec 14 21:00:02 <zapada> i don't know who it was
Dec 14 21:00:03 <Tak> or mug him and take it
Dec 14 21:00:07 <zapada> :O
Dec 14 21:00:24 <fysa> or mug him and give it to Tak as a show of good faith
Dec 14 21:00:25 <zapada> would it be acceptable for sshing into servers for basic admin?
Dec 14 21:00:28 <Tak> that's how I got my 770
Dec 14 21:00:48 <mgedmin> Asus Eee PC is also an option if you want a laptop replacement
Dec 14 21:00:58 <mgedmin> that doesn't necessarily have to fit in a pocket
Dec 14 21:01:01 <zapada> hmm
Dec 14 21:01:05 <zapada> isn't it like $500?
Dec 14 21:01:13 <fysa> I've ssh'd in to reboot servers and check on things, but you will want to keep a bluetooth keyboard handy somewhere.
Dec 14 21:01:14 <zapada> i would rather get the new nokia
Dec 14 21:01:19 <mgedmin> n810 is $480, isn't it?
Dec 14 21:01:20 <fysa> even if it's just in your glove box.
Dec 14 21:01:27 <mgedmin> yeah, n800 is a better deal
Dec 14 21:01:35 <zapada> does google maps work well?
Dec 14 21:01:43 <mgedmin> n800 doesn't have an RJ-45 jack, though
Dec 14 21:01:57 <mgedmin> there's maemo mapper that can use google maps rather well
Dec 14 21:02:01 <fysa> http://www.hanno.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/bt-keyboard.jpg
Dec 14 21:02:22 <pupnik> why should i buy a n810 when the eee is so much better?
Dec 14 21:02:27 <Tak> google maps seems to work ok with microb
Dec 14 21:02:33 <mgedmin> eee doesn't fit in a shirt pocket
Dec 14 21:03:41 <fysa> I was thinking about carrying around a fresnel to magnify my N800 screen. ;)
Dec 14 21:06:52 <zapada> fysa, that looks cute :P
Dec 14 21:07:08 <zapada> how much does that keyboard cost?
Dec 14 21:07:12 <fysa> amazon.com
Dec 14 21:07:14 <fysa> bluetooth keyboard
Dec 14 21:07:17 <fysa> folding bluetooth keyboard
Dec 14 21:07:34 <fysa> I would suggest it if you want to take notes during class.
Dec 14 21:08:03 <fysa> you will have to look at the onscreen to take notes, but if you're decent at touch typing you won't need to glance at the keyboard and can actually pay attention.
Dec 14 21:08:18 <fysa> they had the  N800 at CompUSA here to try.
Dec 14 21:08:20 <fysa> but..
Dec 14 21:08:22 <fysa> they're gone now. :P
Dec 14 21:08:49 <fysa> also you can try the iPhone/iPod Touch if you're new to onscreen keyboards.  however fast you can type on that, it will be a bit slower on the N800
Dec 14 21:11:29 <zapada> why would it be slower on n800?
Dec 14 21:11:45 <shackan> fysa: what about.. pen and pencil?
Dec 14 21:11:49 <zapada> if i could install linux on the touch i would probably get it
Dec 14 21:12:12 <shackan> and you can't type math on a keyboard
Dec 14 21:12:33 <zapada> you can type latex
Dec 14 21:12:44 <zapada> what about voice recognition?
Dec 14 21:12:51 <zapada> does the n800 have voice to text?
Dec 14 21:12:52 <shackan> hahahahaha, sure, if you're VERY fact
Dec 14 21:12:54 <shackan> *fast
Dec 14 21:13:17 <zapada> setup macros that type certain things based on voice recognition?
Dec 14 21:13:22 <shackan> zapada: uh? no it doesn't
Dec 14 21:13:31 <fysa> who writes down math now anyway? :P
Dec 14 21:13:41 <fysa> that's why TI calcs are mandatory
Dec 14 21:13:55 <shackan> fysa: wtf?
Dec 14 21:14:22 <shackan> in this part of the world you're not supposed to use calculators...
Dec 14 21:14:29 <fysa> in highschool maybe.
Dec 14 21:14:50 <fysa> in the real world you use a calculator.
Dec 14 21:15:05 <zapada> in my univeersity first year courses calculators are not allowed on exams
Dec 14 21:15:18 <shackan> zapada: right
Dec 14 21:15:19 <fysa> yeah, and neither would your N800
Dec 14 21:15:51 <zapada> can you run gnuplot on the n800?
Dec 14 21:16:04 <zapada> and octave?
Dec 14 21:16:15 <fysa> there's some plotting software out there I believe
Dec 14 21:16:21 <Tak> also lybniz
Dec 14 21:16:25 <zapada> ah yes
Dec 14 21:16:37 <zapada> has anyone gotten octave to work on the n800?
Dec 14 21:16:50 <wumpus> yeah, calculators weren't allowed on some of our exams either, it's too easy to store entire text files in them these days :P
Dec 14 21:17:50 <zapada> has anyone here tried xfce on the n800
Dec 14 21:20:41 <bedboi> me
Dec 14 21:21:31 <zapada> does it work as well as the maemo gui?
Dec 14 21:21:52 <bedboi> well, no
Dec 14 21:22:06 <bedboi> xfce is not designed for small screen devices
Dec 14 21:22:15 <bedboi> btw it's not that bad
Dec 14 21:26:11 <fysa> bedboi: you try a bt mouse with xfce?
Dec 14 21:26:33 <bedboi> nope
Dec 14 21:26:48 <bedboi> i do not have such a thing
Dec 14 21:26:56 <bedboi> btw it's quite pointless using a mouse
Dec 14 21:27:07 <tontsa> why would you want to have mouse in a such a small screen
Dec 14 21:27:23 <fysa> does the XFCE package come with its own x11 server?
Dec 14 21:27:25 <bedboi> i mean, it's geeky and all, but it's kinda useless
Dec 14 21:27:33 <fysa> no, precisely the opposite.
Dec 14 21:27:47 <bedboi> fysa: maemo relies on X11
Dec 14 21:27:50 <fysa> the smaller the screen, the more usable a mouse becomes compared to a fat finger.
Dec 14 21:27:57 <fysa> obviously :P
Dec 14 21:28:19 <tontsa> you must get bad shoulder pains if you try to squint the screen and move the mouse with other hand
Dec 14 21:28:24 <bedboi> fysa: bringing a mouse of the same size of the device is not so good
Dec 14 21:28:31 <fysa> bt mouth support and a pointer would let you hit smaller widgets and get more usable deskspace.
Dec 14 21:28:34 <fysa> no, it works excellently
Dec 14 21:28:36 <fysa> just not with hildon
Dec 14 21:28:48 <fysa> with XFCE or KDE.
Dec 14 21:28:57 <fysa> there's no other way.  they aren't designed for your finger blocking the screen.
Dec 14 21:29:08 <fysa> and this is for setting the device down
Dec 14 21:29:10 <fysa> with a bt keyboard
Dec 14 21:29:17 <fysa> and using the fold-out stand.
Dec 14 21:29:23 <fysa> I can program/ssh perfectly.
Dec 14 21:29:26 <bedboi> i'm not sure i'm following
Dec 14 21:29:45 <fysa> with a mouse, I could use spreadsheets.
Dec 14 21:29:51 <fysa> having right-click is very important
Dec 14 21:29:59 <fysa> and not dealing with the slowless of the screen, the poor friction
Dec 14 21:30:05 <tontsa> the stylus is quite accurate. i don't see the point of getting such a small device/screen if i wanna do desktop work sitting down at the desktop
Dec 14 21:30:08 <fysa> and interfaces not designed to be blocked by your finger
Dec 14 21:30:09 <fysa> ..
Dec 14 21:30:16 <bedboi> yep
Dec 14 21:30:16 <fysa> because it's pointless to try to use a bluetooth keyboard and stylus.
Dec 14 21:30:22 <bedboi> i agree with tontsa
Dec 14 21:30:23 <fysa> bluetooth keyboard + bluetooth mouse.
Dec 14 21:30:33 <fysa> that's your choice.
Dec 14 21:30:46 <bedboi> fysa: i'm not flaming :)
Dec 14 21:30:48 <fysa> reaching from the keyboard to pick up the stylus is excrutiatingly slow.
Dec 14 21:30:50 <tontsa> n810's keyboard is good. and with stylus everything is happy. atleast for me
Dec 14 21:30:52 <fysa> like VNC
Dec 14 21:31:00 <fysa> VNC is absolutely retarded with the touch screen.
Dec 14 21:31:13 <fysa> I'm talking as a laptop replacement.
Dec 14 21:31:16 <bedboi> tontsa: i'm quite happy with thumb keyboard
Dec 14 21:31:19 <bedboi> it's very handy
Dec 14 21:31:20 <fysa> Hildon + touch when it's in your pocket.
Dec 14 21:31:22 <tontsa> rdesktop worked well. i haven't seen vnc for 810 yet
Dec 14 21:31:38 <fysa> bt keyboard + bt mouse at the office.
Dec 14 21:31:48 <fysa> I travel quite often and develop software.
Dec 14 21:31:56 <fysa> I like to be able to work where ever I am.
Dec 14 21:32:13 <fysa> without lugging around a laptop..  that's my purpose.  if you don't have a purpose, obviously trying to use a mouse on such a screen doesn't make sense.
Dec 14 21:32:17 <tontsa> for real work i'd recommend a real laptop so you won't end up blind and with bad back pains
Dec 14 21:32:25 <fysa> thanks, doctor.
Dec 14 21:32:39 <Tak> Dammit Jim, he's a programmer, not a doctor!
Dec 14 21:32:47 <bedboi> lol
Dec 14 21:33:10 <fysa> the built-in X11 on OS2008 has issues with the mouse driver I believe.
Dec 14 21:33:14 <bedboi> fysa: it's just that i'm not sure n800 is ready to be a laptop replacement :)
Dec 14 21:33:18 <fysa> dude
Dec 14 21:33:21 <fysa> you retard.
Dec 14 21:33:22 <tontsa> atleast i just use n810 for random work on the road.. can't even imagine doing "real" work 8 hours a day with it though
Dec 14 21:33:24 <fysa> (not really)
Dec 14 21:33:27 <fysa> I just said..
Dec 14 21:33:29 <fysa> I'm using it as a laptop replacement.
Dec 14 21:33:31 <fysa> and have been.
Dec 14 21:33:40 <fysa> I just returned from a 3-day business trip last night.
Dec 14 21:33:48 <fysa> on which I was able to work at any place I sat, the entire time.
Dec 14 21:33:57 <fysa> including the airplane .. in coach.
Dec 14 21:34:07 <fysa> and at a reasonable pace
Dec 14 21:34:31 <fysa> not 100%, of course.
Dec 14 21:34:37 <bedboi> fysa: maybe it's ok for you to work with a small device, i'm just saying it's not my case at all
Dec 14 21:34:40 <fysa> 100% on a deskop with triple 24" LCDs
Dec 14 21:34:48 <bedboi> ehhehe
Dec 14 21:34:58 <fysa> 70% on a regular laptop
Dec 14 21:35:10 <fysa> or less even.
Dec 14 21:35:19 <fysa> but the difference between mouse/keyboard on the N800 is easily twice as fast
Dec 14 21:35:33 <fysa> you try writing 8000 character SQL queries on the vkb :P
Dec 14 21:35:37 <fysa> try seeing them even.
Dec 14 21:35:50 <fysa> one of the biggest advantages of a bt keyboard has been the extra real-estate that I get to keep.
Dec 14 21:36:10 <fysa> and with pixel-perfect accuracy (or close to it) and a mouse, you can get more real estate yet.
Dec 14 21:36:16 <fysa> no, it's not great.
Dec 14 21:36:19 <fysa> it's a pocket device.
Dec 14 21:36:30 <fysa> but 800x480 is more than I used for years on my Commodore Amiga.
Dec 14 21:37:05 <fysa> and I did DTP, graphics and coding without a problem then.  so surely can be done here with a bit of squinting..  to have that kind of flexibility at the beach, the park or a hiking trip is what I'm after.
Dec 14 21:37:10 <tontsa> i used to have amigas. but even back then the screen was bigger so you didn't have to squint
Dec 14 21:37:14 <fysa> I certainly don't want to lug around a laptop with extra batteries.
Dec 14 21:37:15 <Tak> if I wrote 8000-character SQL queries, I'd kill myself :-P
Dec 14 21:37:18 <fysa> I have fine vision.
Dec 14 21:37:51 <fysa> anyway,
Dec 14 21:38:13 <fysa> silly for me to go on.  I was just curious if bedboi tried a mouse, nothing more.
Dec 14 21:38:33 <fysa> yes, tak.  The worst part is that this particular project uses MS SQL.
Dec 14 21:56:05 <Solarion> ogg/theora support? :)
Dec 14 21:56:09 <Solarion> please?
Dec 14 21:56:49 <realcomix> One day
Dec 14 21:57:03 <Solarion> realcomix: tomorrow's a day.
Dec 14 21:57:33 <realcomix> That it is
Dec 14 21:57:33 <Solarion> all my music is in voribs, and significant chunks of my video in theora
Dec 14 21:57:43 <realcomix> Hmm
Dec 14 21:59:21 <realcomix> Some one did get ogg for embeded media player .. But its still in beta ... Check the meamo news ...
Dec 14 21:59:52 <realcomix> But i have no idea about theora
Dec 14 22:00:06 <Solarion> you mean vorbis?
Dec 14 22:00:10 <Sho_> he means vorbis, yes
Dec 14 22:00:12 <Solarion> (instead of ogg)
Dec 14 22:00:38 <Solarion> dunno why xiph needed Yet Another Container Format
Dec 14 22:00:47 <realcomix> Ah heh yes
Dec 14 22:01:11 <Solarion> vorbis/theora support would be huge
Dec 14 22:01:42 <Sho_> Solarion: Vorbis support is available
Dec 14 22:02:13 <Sho_> Solarion: Apparently so is Theora, actually: http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/
Dec 14 22:03:10 <Solarion> Sho_: I meant out of the box
Dec 14 22:03:48 <Solarion> any hope of that?
Dec 14 22:04:04 <Sho_> Solarion: Is there a critical need for that if you can just easily install it?
Dec 14 22:04:08 <dragorn> anyone know offhand why mplayer (latest from hackers-dev) takes ~30s to start?  I assume it's something to do with searching for media, any way to speed that up?  Runs fine once it starts.
Dec 14 22:04:30 <Solarion> Sho_: sure.  Difference between notebook vendor giving you Windows support and putting Linux or, or vendor giving you Linux support.
Dec 14 22:05:05 <Fatal> Solarion: I guess you missed the nokia vs html5 debacle a few days ago?
Dec 14 22:05:13 <Sho_> *shrugs* For me one reason to be interested in the ITs in the first place is *because* I can install things that aren't there out of the box
Dec 14 22:05:26 <Solarion> Fatal: missed, no.
Dec 14 22:06:04 <Solarion> Sho_: Certainly, but that doesn't mean that there's not a significant difference between "vendor supports x" and "you can make it do x"
Dec 14 22:06:44 <Sho_> Solarion: When it comes to a video codec, I don't really perceive that significant difference for my personal use cases
Dec 14 22:08:08 <Solarion> eh, I suppose.
Dec 14 22:08:14 <Solarion> still would be nice to have that support
Dec 14 22:08:49 <Solarion> but you
Dec 14 22:09:01 <Solarion> 're probably right; for a video codec the distinction isn't nearly as huge
Dec 14 22:36:06 <dagb> Is there a slick solution for automatic switching between WLAN and GPRS? I.e. something that uses WLAN if available, switches to GPRS if not, and back to WLAN when it becomes available?
Dec 14 22:38:28 <dagb> I intend to combine this with openvpn to have a "poor mans mobile ip"
Dec 14 23:07:42 <kulve> Solarion: no hope of getting ogg supported officially
Dec 14 23:09:13 <kulve> it should support theora too
Dec 14 23:14:14 <Tenkawa> irssi from an ssh connect to my n800
Dec 14 23:14:18 <Tenkawa> this is sad
Dec 14 23:14:28 <Tenkawa> brb... forgot to set a config var
Dec 14 23:15:23 <Tenkawa> thats better
Dec 14 23:20:36 <Tenkawa> w
Dec 14 23:20:38 <Tenkawa> oops
Dec 14 23:20:40 <Tenkawa> sorry
Dec 15 00:14:17 <wolfgang> look that- http://wolfgang-city.myminicity.com/
Dec 15 01:05:00 <alterego> Says 15th on my clock ..
Dec 15 02:41:13 <lopz> hola
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Dec 15 02:59:57 2007