**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jan 18 02:59:57 2008 Jan 18 02:59:59 damn Jan 18 03:00:00 For a variety of reasons Jan 18 03:00:20 I guess 5v isn't enough then Jan 18 03:01:01 I'm blaming: slow charging off USB (500mA versus 860mA from wallwart), expense for Nokia of making another charger type, and the host-mode/OTG support of the port. Jan 18 03:01:06 5v is Jan 18 03:01:17 But voltage isn't the only factor. :) Jan 18 03:01:46 elb: under normal conditions you're out of luck reading without backlight.. (atleast if you want to read comfortable) Jan 18 03:02:04 Someone could make an aftermarket rear case panel with a bulge in it, and a custom battery, i suppose Jan 18 03:03:25 GeneralAntilles: do you know if there's an external charger for the BP-4L battery? Jan 18 03:03:37 Hehe Jan 18 03:03:41 n8x0 won't charge by the usb cable?! Jan 18 03:03:45 My external chargers are my two 770s. :P Jan 18 03:03:50 haha that was mean of me Jan 18 03:04:00 I have bought these whiskas Temptations Jan 18 03:04:04 ryoohki, just buy yourself a USB-to-barrel plug adaptor for $12 Jan 18 03:04:14 so i took one and let the cat sniff it and he was on my lap Jan 18 03:04:22 then i put it in the bown on the floor Jan 18 03:04:29 and he was looking at it Jan 18 03:04:33 and going hmmm Jan 18 03:04:36 GeneralAntilles: yeah, i've seen those but usb is less than 500ma Jan 18 03:04:36 what to do... Jan 18 03:04:44 so he got up just to eat the one Jan 18 03:04:47 It'll charge Jan 18 03:04:53 just much more slowly than the wallwart Jan 18 03:05:06 wallwart ? Jan 18 03:05:18 standard charger ? Jan 18 03:05:19 the car charger is about 380mA Jan 18 03:05:30 I wonder how the efficiency compares Jan 18 03:05:44 wallwarts are notorious for leaking energy ... I wonder if a laptop powering its USB port is more or less efficient ;-) Jan 18 03:05:59 Uh, output is 860mA. Jan 18 03:06:18 and a laptop is about the least efficient DC transformer ever created. Jan 18 03:06:32 what does "Uh, output is 860mA" mean? Jan 18 03:06:38 and yes -- but my laptop is already on and running Jan 18 03:06:52 if it weren't being used, that would be a reasonable conclusion, but it is Jan 18 03:07:36 The wallwart outputs 860mA, it seemed like you were implying that that's what it was taking in or something. Jan 18 03:08:00 what I was not only implying, but *saying*, is that wall warts often draw *much* more power than they provide Jan 18 03:08:41 The Nokia chargers are usually quite good. Jan 18 03:08:47 as in, a 5w output wall wart might actually draw 10-15w, and often draw multiple watts even when the device is not plugged in Jan 18 03:08:55 Mine barely get warm to the touch while charging. Jan 18 03:09:01 that's a good sign Jan 18 03:09:08 Nokia chargers also switch off when not in use. Jan 18 03:09:15 is kde worth putting on my n800 Jan 18 03:09:28 I'd set up a dual-boot. Jan 18 03:09:38 Personally, I don't think it's particularly well suited for the device. Jan 18 03:09:41 Your mileage may vary. Jan 18 03:09:47 idk Jan 18 03:09:57 i just dont like like of apps it seems for maemo Jan 18 03:10:17 like lack * Jan 18 03:10:59 Quantity != Quality Jan 18 03:11:00 plenty kde apps but I never seem to need any of them Jan 18 03:11:17 aparte from Kolf and that daoesnt work great with the touchscreen Jan 18 03:11:49 the quality of the emulators on the n800 aint pretty either lol Jan 18 03:12:16 It's not a gaming machine. Jan 18 03:12:20 well, I want to use python :D Jan 18 03:12:25 You want emu, shoulda gotten a PSP. Jan 18 03:12:37 Xamusk, Python and Ruby are both well supported. Jan 18 03:12:41 im getting more and more convinced that the n800's main use if for Linux geeks to spend all their time configuring and reconfiguring it Jan 18 03:13:13 and the main use for normal users is to use it. Your point? Jan 18 03:13:57 Im still not convinced what its primary purpose is Jan 18 03:13:59 I relize thats not its main attention but the fact I cant play pole position in xmaeme is sad lol Jan 18 03:14:06 Nokia tells you on the box Jan 18 03:14:20 Browse the internet, check e-mail, play media. Jan 18 03:14:26 and lack of p2p is sadening Jan 18 03:14:27 SIP, Skype Jan 18 03:14:28 IM Jan 18 03:14:33 GeneralAntilles, is it easy to program to maemo's UI? Jan 18 03:14:41 It's GTK Jan 18 03:14:51 it doesn't look like gtk Jan 18 03:15:01 Bittorrent? Both ctorrent and transmission are available. Jan 18 03:15:21 Personally, p2p is kinda stupid on a device like this. Jan 18 03:15:40 (although it would make an interesting low-power bittorrent client) Jan 18 03:15:54 I got bittorent im thinking more of gtk gnuella and a hildonized version or something Jan 18 03:15:55 Matchbox/Hildon Jan 18 03:16:00 but it's basically GTK Jan 18 03:16:42 petergunn, the reason why linux "geeks" use this thing is because we can compile what we want..how we want it ...for this thing Jan 18 03:16:46 I love that Jan 18 03:17:04 better than fighting with mr jobs about locking everything down Jan 18 03:17:10 it doesn't look like it can load glade... but it could just be a very good theme Jan 18 03:17:15 and acting like MS did and does Jan 18 03:17:29 petergunn, do you own one? Jan 18 03:17:40 and its a great device.. Jan 18 03:17:54 * LinuxCode recalls his jornada 710 Jan 18 03:17:57 ya, wife got me an n800 for Xmas Jan 18 03:18:03 wince that was the biggest pile of shit ever Jan 18 03:18:10 I've seen an app called FBreader that just looks amazing Jan 18 03:18:15 It is amazing Jan 18 03:18:17 remembers me of plucker for palm Jan 18 03:18:20 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/n800.html Jan 18 03:18:23 yeh I can read my chms Jan 18 03:18:35 225dpi is amazing for reading books. Jan 18 03:18:54 petergunn, this IS primarily a development channel, so the views here are a little skewed. Jan 18 03:19:32 lolz - so configuring/reconfiguring and installing etc isnt related to dev? Jan 18 03:20:50 he meant that almost everyone here is used to that Jan 18 03:21:08 Im sure :-) Jan 18 03:21:17 hmm im kinda disappointed in the n800 Jan 18 03:21:34 I guess i thought hey its linux it should be swarming with apps for everything Jan 18 03:21:48 dospod, it kind of is Jan 18 03:21:54 Seriously. Jan 18 03:21:55 however... Jan 18 03:22:11 actually no however Jan 18 03:22:19 dospod, if you want something Jan 18 03:22:19 port it Jan 18 03:22:25 That's the beauty of open source Jan 18 03:22:26 I do not code Jan 18 03:22:27 You just have to configure/reconfigure/install/patch/recompile/fix/port/etc Jan 18 03:22:31 you're not beholded to anybody Jan 18 03:22:39 s/beholded/beholden/ Jan 18 03:22:41 GeneralAntilles meant: you're not beholden to anybody Jan 18 03:23:01 99% of console stuff is just a recompile away Jan 18 03:23:12 The GUI stuff is pretty straight forward, too. Jan 18 03:23:20 oh hey is phonelink finally working on os 2008 Jan 18 03:23:21 dospod, it's the golden opportunity to learn. Jan 18 03:23:30 i saw gnokii is instalable finally Jan 18 03:23:39 it runs Jan 18 03:23:42 havent tested Jan 18 03:23:51 my P800 is a tad iffy Jan 18 03:24:13 yes thats a P Jan 18 03:24:17 not a N Jan 18 03:24:26 P800 = moile Jan 18 03:24:28 X11 stuff compiles fine but you have to patch Hildon input and matchbox messes with all the dialogs Jan 18 03:24:32 mobile Jan 18 03:25:25 phone liknk is something that intrests me alot Jan 18 03:27:24 what is phone line? Jan 18 03:27:27 er, link Jan 18 03:27:51 it allows u to make calls and sms off ur phone on the n8x0 via bt Jan 18 03:27:59 ah Jan 18 03:28:14 that would be pretty sweet if i can get it to work/ learn to configure it Jan 18 03:28:17 side talkin' Jan 18 03:28:36 GeneralAntilles have u gotten phone link to work Jan 18 03:28:45 I don't have a use for it. Jan 18 03:28:52 my phone is a better phone than my N800 Jan 18 03:28:55 and I don't use SMS Jan 18 03:28:58 I hate my phone Jan 18 03:29:06 i dont use sms either but i hate my phone Jan 18 03:29:12 the less i have to see it the better Jan 18 03:29:21 (well, actually, the only two people I know who send me SMS are my parents) Jan 18 03:31:29 I just got a pantech c150 phone that I'm pretty happy with Jan 18 03:31:46 supports bluetooth DUN and file transfer with my 770 Jan 18 03:31:59 someone tried to use selfone on a n8x0? Jan 18 03:32:04 small enough that I can carry both of them without it being annoying Jan 18 03:32:18 where can I find maps for the n810? Jan 18 03:33:02 (quick googling revealed the idea i just had is already implemented to some degree ;-) Jan 18 03:33:08 How do you mean, Xamusk? Jan 18 03:33:30 I got a samsung upstage :\ Jan 18 03:33:36 wayfinder maps ? Jan 18 03:34:03 yes Jan 18 03:34:10 to use with the gps Jan 18 03:34:14 not sure n800 can Jan 18 03:34:24 n800 doesn't have gps Jan 18 03:34:25 It can Jan 18 03:34:26 n800 can if u got a bt gps reciever Jan 18 03:34:33 But what do you mean by "find"? Jan 18 03:34:33 Xamusk, exactly Jan 18 03:34:37 I meant for the n810 Jan 18 03:34:44 open maps Jan 18 03:34:46 The "Map" maps are downloaded by the application Jan 18 03:34:49 download them Jan 18 03:34:52 find as download Jan 18 03:35:00 free to download Jan 18 03:35:00 are they only US maps? Jan 18 03:35:04 maemo mapper uses anything from Open Street to Google and Virtual Earth Jan 18 03:35:04 no Jan 18 03:35:06 worldwide Jan 18 03:35:25 Upstage! Jan 18 03:35:25 Haha Jan 18 03:35:32 My friend's younger brother has that phone Jan 18 03:35:34 it's such a joke. Jan 18 03:35:43 it is Jan 18 03:35:44 indeed Jan 18 03:35:50 was cool for like 3 weeks Jan 18 03:35:54 Got an SGH-A717 that I love. Jan 18 03:35:57 maemo mapper sounds cool Jan 18 03:36:03 * LinuxCode is intruiged Jan 18 03:36:07 * LinuxCode installs Jan 18 03:36:13 then everyone bought it and then it got rather annoying with the thouch sensative buttons on the back side Jan 18 03:37:17 maemo mapper is the greatest GPS application known to man. Jan 18 03:38:34 that good? Jan 18 03:38:37 Yes. Jan 18 03:38:43 Not great for turn-by-turn Jan 18 03:38:46 GeneralAntilles, where do i get the google maps from ? Jan 18 03:40:04 http://lonelyfridge.com/project_files/redline/z06/corvette_z06_1.1beta.zip Jan 18 03:40:06 how do I tell it to download the map for a location? Jan 18 03:40:06 crap Jan 18 03:40:10 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4958 Jan 18 03:40:18 My pasting was faster than the clipbboard. ;) Jan 18 03:40:23 lol Jan 18 03:40:29 maemo mapper or "Map"? Jan 18 03:40:55 See my posts on that page. Jan 18 03:41:02 That's for 1.x, but it still applies. Jan 18 03:41:14 Covers both LinuxCode's and Xamusk's questions. Jan 18 03:42:24 Also: check the app's built-in help (what, built-in help?!) Jan 18 03:42:27 It's really, really good. Jan 18 03:42:55 so, i'm working on a script that I would call remotely if my n810 is stolen. the best way i can think of to render the device useless is 'dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/mtdblock4'...anyone else have a different method they're using? Jan 18 03:43:23 I don't suppose truecrypt has been ported...? Jan 18 03:44:01 isn't it better to let it work and be able to trace it? Jan 18 03:44:06 Yeah Jan 18 03:44:35 You need three things: a phone-home with its current IP on every new connection, a GPS location, and a picture Jan 18 03:44:50 lol Jan 18 03:45:00 so you know who to curse Jan 18 03:45:03 the ip is easy, I'm already doing that...and it vpn's into my home network (hence my ability to run scripts remotely) Jan 18 03:45:06 and where to send the cops. Jan 18 03:45:10 the picture is of utmost importance Jan 18 03:45:30 GPS makes it really easy. Jan 18 03:46:03 Also: capture all of their outgoing data so you can get their CC info and such. :P Jan 18 03:46:08 bahah Jan 18 03:46:11 stealing a device that has both a serial number and a gps is idiotic Jan 18 03:46:13 that would make a great app! Jan 18 03:46:15 As a final step, make sure to package it all up and distribute it. ;) Jan 18 03:46:21 I want that app! Jan 18 03:46:25 chances are they'd be using stolen cc's too :\ Jan 18 03:46:27 if you make one I will donate Jan 18 03:46:30 Rendering it useless is a bad plan Jan 18 03:46:37 yeh trace it Jan 18 03:46:38 as it makes it much harder to find Jan 18 03:46:42 get the fucking bastid Jan 18 03:46:48 lol I actually suggested this for the dev discount thing, but I don't think nokia was too thrilled with the idea of 'supporting' a big brother program, i dunno Jan 18 03:46:51 and get him donw for it Jan 18 03:47:02 done* Jan 18 03:47:11 Yeah, you'd want to device to be 'usable' to the pepole for as long as possible to recover it Jan 18 03:47:11 nsty surprise when the door is knocked down Jan 18 03:47:17 how do you access the gps from the command line? Jan 18 03:47:31 and he doesnt know shit Jan 18 03:47:39 how he was found out Jan 18 03:47:41 Set it up with SIP, have it dial the police, play a recording with the current lat/long, and tell them to expect an e-mail with a picture. Jan 18 03:47:46 coppers will be pleased too Jan 18 03:47:48 gpsd, dick-richardson. Jan 18 03:47:49 XD Jan 18 03:47:53 GeneralAntilles, bahah Jan 18 03:47:56 flite Jan 18 03:48:01 So it'll read off the coordinates Jan 18 03:48:04 I have been stolen Jan 18 03:48:06 GeneralAntilles: nice :D Jan 18 03:48:13 I am at : 31.1 degrees north Jan 18 03:48:21 -36 degrees south Jan 18 03:48:25 ehh east Jan 18 03:48:26 Oh, better yet, have it dial 911 and say there's an armed robbery in progress at its location. Jan 18 03:48:29 please retrieve me now Jan 18 03:48:34 bahah Jan 18 03:48:41 lol Jan 18 03:48:48 hostage situation is even better Jan 18 03:48:57 this is a automated message: This nuclear material container was stolen Jan 18 03:49:01 does SIP work with emergency calls? :p Jan 18 03:49:09 its current position is...blah blah Jan 18 03:49:16 the container contains plutonium Jan 18 03:49:19 Then have it connect to any Windows PCs in the house have it download gigs and gigs of movies, music and child porn. Jan 18 03:49:27 that would get them coppers going Jan 18 03:49:37 GeneralAntilles, hahah Jan 18 03:49:39 evil! Jan 18 03:49:52 that might backfire though Jan 18 03:50:12 although excellent idea.. Jan 18 03:50:16 You need it in virus form. Jan 18 03:50:21 get the fucker done for anything one can think of Jan 18 03:50:35 make him go to prison for 100 million years Jan 18 03:50:40 Then have it activate a servo motor which shorts the battery and burns down his house. Jan 18 03:50:46 one guy in uni tried to steal my ipod Jan 18 03:50:52 I worked with him for 4 months! Jan 18 03:50:58 Ha Jan 18 03:50:58 and still had to work with him for 2-3 Jan 18 03:51:00 Awesome. Jan 18 03:51:03 what a bastard Jan 18 03:51:10 awkward Jan 18 03:51:10 thieves are just lowly :| Jan 18 03:51:12 I dont take shit of people though Jan 18 03:51:21 I searched his bag Jan 18 03:51:28 found my ink drenched cable Jan 18 03:51:36 which does not come with ipod itself Jan 18 03:51:46 so he had to give it back Jan 18 03:52:02 I didnt report him...because he was the only guy on the project who could do VB Jan 18 03:52:05 I hate VB Jan 18 03:52:09 I dont want to go near it Jan 18 03:52:19 also the only other guy doing work on the project ;-| Jan 18 03:52:30 1 guy dropped out Jan 18 03:52:34 1 guy was useless Jan 18 03:52:41 then us two Jan 18 03:52:42 ;-| Jan 18 03:52:47 VisiualBasic programmers are thieves! Jan 18 03:52:54 vb is just gay Jan 18 03:52:55 Best argument I've ever heard against a language. Jan 18 03:53:01 and thats an offence to the gay community Jan 18 03:53:04 VB makes thieves of us all Jan 18 03:53:16 [03:52] GeneralAntilles VisiualBasic programmers are thieves! Jan 18 03:53:22 quite applivable in my case mate Jan 18 03:53:25 rofl Jan 18 03:53:31 I had VB, but the doc gave me some medication and it cleared up Jan 18 03:53:42 dick-richardson, hahaha Jan 18 03:54:29 dick-richardson, install a keylogger in there, too. Jan 18 03:54:57 you know, I'm still trying to figure out how to call gpsd from the command line Jan 18 03:55:23 gpsd: can't run with neither control socket nor devices Jan 18 03:55:31 Actually, if it's in your VPN, you can probably track it actively Jan 18 03:55:39 since gpsd is a network thing. Jan 18 03:55:55 Not sure how to start it, though. Jan 18 03:56:23 Maybe poll their forums/mailing lists/channels? Jan 18 03:56:44 #gpsd Jan 18 03:57:21 sounds good :D Jan 18 03:57:23 GeneralAntilles, awesome Jan 18 03:57:37 dick-richardson, you gon hack something up mate ? Jan 18 03:58:10 yeah, but with the vpn being a pre-req I'm not sure how useful it'll be to the general user Jan 18 03:58:30 well...if its too accessible Jan 18 03:58:35 the thief will know Jan 18 03:58:36 Obviously you're going to have to make a non-VPN mode. ;) Jan 18 03:58:42 it will have to be some hidden thing Jan 18 03:58:51 yeh Jan 18 03:58:52 VPN mode for active tracking and non-VPN for burst reporting? Jan 18 03:59:20 Will capture the lat/long itself when on non-VPN and send them out in an e-mail/phonecall/IM, etc. Jan 18 03:59:28 I wonder if the kernel is compiled with ipv6 support Jan 18 04:01:53 GeneralAntilles, I liked the bluetooth gps Jan 18 04:02:02 it doesnt ;-[ Jan 18 04:02:22 GeneralAntilles, actually, it's cheaper to buy an n800 and the gps separated Jan 18 04:03:10 too bad the n800 doesn't come with the keyboard too, but then it comes with a full-sd slot :) Jan 18 04:08:08 do you know if I can build custom electronics for the N8x0? Jan 18 04:08:27 Howso? Jan 18 04:08:32 Bluetooth GPS with the N800 is great Jan 18 04:08:42 the BT units are so much more accurate than the N810's Jan 18 04:08:47 :) Jan 18 04:08:58 maybe here's my solution :) pretty cheaper Jan 18 04:09:03 and a LOT quicker to lock Jan 18 04:09:09 sadly it doesn't have the keyboard :( Jan 18 04:09:09 Yeah Jan 18 04:09:14 30s versus 4 minutes Jan 18 04:09:23 The fullscreen keyboard is actually quite good Jan 18 04:09:28 I do 40wpm on it. Jan 18 04:09:35 You just have to get a feel for it. Jan 18 04:09:36 but then, one can't complain when in low budget Jan 18 04:10:06 I just hope I can get both to my country Jan 18 04:10:23 Where are you? Jan 18 04:10:49 Brazil Jan 18 04:11:39 Can someone in the US send you one? Jan 18 04:12:11 maybe Jan 18 04:12:37 I'll try to contact some friends' friends Jan 18 04:13:00 Yeah, that'll probably be worthwhile. Jan 18 04:13:30 N800, i-blue 737, iGo Stowaway, 2x8-18GB SDHC. You'll be set. Jan 18 04:13:35 GeneralAntilles, you will be happy to know Jan 18 04:13:40 it can autodownload maps Jan 18 04:13:41 ;-D Jan 18 04:13:44 maemo mapper Jan 18 04:13:49 Of course it can. Jan 18 04:13:54 awesome Jan 18 04:20:22 haha wow Jan 18 04:20:37 my mom bought me a outerwear coat from abercrombie and fitch Jan 18 04:20:41 and its freakin huge Jan 18 04:20:48 i look like an eskamo Jan 18 04:20:54 and i live in south texas Jan 18 04:21:28 one word Jan 18 04:21:30 ebay Jan 18 04:21:32 lol Jan 18 04:21:43 hehehe Jan 18 04:22:16 hell no i like it even though its freakin huge Jan 18 04:22:46 lol Jan 18 04:23:28 gotta go Jan 18 04:23:34 well, i'm gonna stop off at the local bar myself Jan 18 04:23:42 it's quite late here now :( Jan 18 04:23:49 see ya Jan 18 04:24:22 bye Jan 18 04:24:26 4:30 am here Jan 18 04:42:45 Hehe, I just aliased "ssh root@192.168.1.201" (my N800) to "sshit" Jan 18 04:43:17 hehe i look like an eskamo Jan 18 04:59:41 hey john ;-] Jan 18 05:00:35 hey Jan 18 05:00:42 how ya doing ? Jan 18 05:00:47 pretty good Jan 18 05:00:54 cool ;-] Jan 18 05:01:17 trying to hack some of the maemo/hildon stuff into debian/armel with very blunt methods Jan 18 05:01:48 some progress, but Nokia seems to have entirely disregarded debian package names Jan 18 05:02:10 ;-| Jan 18 05:02:44 that will cause all sorts of issues Jan 18 05:02:59 i hate it when people do that woth rpms too Jan 18 05:03:08 it's ok, I found a great little tool called equivs that lets me tell horrible lies to the debian packaging system Jan 18 05:03:42 and a good chunk of the stuff is already in debian via the "pkg-maemo" project on alioth.debian.org Jan 18 05:06:44 lol Jan 18 05:06:49 horrible lies Jan 18 05:06:52 ;-] Jan 18 05:07:05 johnx: interesting notes in the a2dp thread recently :) Jan 18 05:08:57 hey, I recently bought an n800 and I found that the headphones are different lengths. Is it supposed to be like that? Jan 18 05:09:16 Yes. Jan 18 05:09:23 Get a real set of earbuds. ;) Jan 18 05:09:36 lol Jan 18 05:09:46 why do they do that? Jan 18 05:10:52 put the longer one around your neck then it'll reach the other side just fine :p Jan 18 05:10:57 rubber boot factory, they got lot of rubber knowledge Jan 18 05:10:59 so the microphone stays closer to your mouth Jan 18 05:11:08 cookie! Jan 18 05:14:35 ;-} Jan 18 05:14:41 hmm Jan 18 05:14:50 it seems that it would stay there anyway Jan 18 05:15:10 since I have it looped to make them even Jan 18 05:23:14 I can now right click Jan 18 05:23:19 woo hoo Jan 18 05:23:39 The hand surgery went well, then? :P Jan 18 05:23:45 hehe Jan 18 05:23:53 nope using xmodmap Jan 18 05:24:04 I hav keyboard shortcut Jan 18 05:24:10 ctrl-z Jan 18 05:24:16 turns on and offf Jan 18 05:24:21 I am giddy Jan 18 05:24:29 I got my 810 today Jan 18 05:25:42 nice innit ;-] Jan 18 05:25:47 may not be usefull in maemo, but very helpful in KDE Jan 18 05:29:16 augh, I have created a dependency hell for myself Jan 18 05:57:52 ah, dependency hell caused largely by trying to track debian unstable :/ Jan 18 06:01:17 nokia sells a usb charger Jan 18 06:02:18 nokia power pack..interesting Jan 18 06:03:33 :( is there any to reset root pwd on 770 without reflashing? Jan 18 06:03:51 Try installing becomeroot? Jan 18 06:03:53 sudo gainroot Jan 18 06:06:10 lets see Jan 18 06:07:54 woah, thats cool Jan 18 06:08:07 still no response on the maemo dev mailing list :/ Jan 18 06:08:09 no more ~ $ ssh root@localhost for me Jan 18 06:08:15 my thread is buried now at this point Jan 18 06:08:25 i wonder if it would be rude to repost? >_> Jan 18 06:09:46 SPAM IT EVERYWHERE! Jan 18 06:09:57 CC *@nokia.com Jan 18 06:10:07 yaaaay~~ Jan 18 06:10:37 whats that ? Jan 18 06:10:55 lol\ Jan 18 06:11:16 root pass ? Jan 18 06:11:18 mmmm... it's good to be back on a linux system tho :) Jan 18 06:11:24 running debian now Jan 18 06:14:01 GeneralAntilles, what is that: CC *@nokia.com Jan 18 06:14:04 @? Jan 18 06:14:32 Carbon Copy every e-mail address at nokia.com? Jan 18 06:14:35 meaning "send it to everyone who has an @nokia.com email Jan 18 06:14:37 lool Jan 18 06:14:45 k Jan 18 06:15:31 maybe if i post it as a bug on maemo? Jan 18 06:16:05 either: A) it will be accepted and fixed (err?) or else they will have to explain WHY it isn't a bug, by showing how it is actually possible :P Jan 18 06:16:19 or they'll ignore it. Jan 18 06:16:32 or much more likely, that. >_> Jan 18 06:16:46 option C is depressing. Jan 18 06:16:46 I can mark it as NEW. :P Jan 18 06:16:53 lol :P Jan 18 06:17:01 let me check how they do it for the little backlight app on the zaurus. That's in gtk Jan 18 06:17:07 Be sure to use "fuck" a lot. Jan 18 06:17:11 lol Jan 18 06:17:35 johnx: mmm interesting. if that is a GtkScale, I could use that knowledge :P Jan 18 06:17:50 i was unaware they had anything that similar looking on the zaurus :) Jan 18 06:18:05 johnx: just link me to the code for that? Jan 18 06:18:11 rm_you, digging it up Jan 18 06:20:55 rm_you, couldn't find the backlight but the volume is the same look: http://matchbox-project.org/sources/mb-applet-volume/0.2/ Jan 18 06:25:02 johnx: GtkAdjustment? >_> hrm, sec Jan 18 06:25:12 i guess that is a scale... Jan 18 06:25:29 don't they do it in a popup not a menu though? Jan 18 06:25:48 looking Jan 18 06:26:01 trying to read and comprehend the entire thing, not just skim Jan 18 06:26:08 well, the whole popup_init function, that is Jan 18 06:26:11 not the rest Jan 18 06:26:43 that *IS* interesting... Jan 18 06:26:49 "slider_window = gtk_window_new (GTK_WINDOW_POPUP);" Jan 18 06:26:54 let me test something Jan 18 06:28:15 wow, if it's that simple... Jan 18 06:28:27 I though I told you that you cannot use it in a menu? Jan 18 06:28:41 inz, he's stubborn :P Jan 18 06:28:49 inz: I know you did Jan 18 06:29:47 inz: and my question DID say "Am I going about this wrong? Does the backlight app use something besides a GtkMenu when clicked? " in my post :P and "menu" was in quotes Jan 18 06:29:56 if this works... Jan 18 06:33:08 on the bright side, I'm learning lots about debian package management... Jan 18 06:33:19 well... it sorta works Jan 18 06:33:26 it's still not the same as the brightness app Jan 18 06:33:30 yay! halfway solutions! Jan 18 06:33:32 but it accomplishes close to the same thing Jan 18 06:33:38 as soon as i figure out how to tweak it Jan 18 06:33:44 i was really hoping to get to bed early tonight Jan 18 06:33:45 ah well Jan 18 06:33:50 heh Jan 18 06:33:51 3 hours of sleep (maybe?) for me :) Jan 18 06:34:03 no rest for the weary Jan 18 06:40:38 can anyone recommend a PIM foe os2008? Jan 18 06:40:51 GPE? Jan 18 06:46:59 johnx: thanks Jan 18 06:52:47 anyone know ohw I can get that "Multiple mail messages" notification to actually open modest instead of entourage? Jan 18 06:53:40 by, entourage do you mean the built in mail client? Jan 18 06:56:37 can't figure out how to make this window MOVE >_< Jan 18 06:57:07 you mean how to draw it at an arbitrary location? Jan 18 06:58:24 yes Jan 18 06:58:28 ah maybe got it Jan 18 06:58:52 HA Jan 18 06:59:01 i was using gdk_window_move, need to use gtk_window_move Jan 18 06:59:10 i'm still not sure what the difference between gdk and gtk is Jan 18 06:59:11 but whatever Jan 18 06:59:53 gnome toolkit ? Jan 18 06:59:59 gnome developers kit ?!? Jan 18 07:00:01 maybe Jan 18 07:00:38 gdk is the gimp drawing kit that gtk (gimp tool kit) uses to draw things Jan 18 07:01:21 now the problem is finding out where the button IS on the screen Jan 18 07:01:29 so i can move the popup to the right place Jan 18 07:01:50 hi, can I cat an wav file to some audio pipe sot that it would play on n810? Jan 18 07:02:04 eg. cat ui-wrong_charger.wav >> /dev/audio or similar Jan 18 07:02:47 oil, gst-launch playbin uri=file:///path/to/file.wav maybe Jan 18 07:03:10 you might not have gst-launch Jan 18 07:03:35 johnx: I don't have that one. Jan 18 07:03:35 it's in this package: gstreamer0.10-tools Jan 18 07:03:53 There might be a simpler way... Jan 18 07:03:57 without gst-launch it's not possible to do? Jan 18 07:03:57 I just don't know it Jan 18 07:04:41 hmm Jan 18 07:04:45 try play-sound :) Jan 18 07:05:11 the mail program sure eats into the battery life :( Jan 18 07:05:35 ah.. pure play-sound works fine! thanks :) Jan 18 07:10:45 now if only i could figure out how to give this popup a border... Jan 18 07:11:10 rm, the position can be computed using the allocation of the button and it's GdkWindow's position Jan 18 07:11:33 rm, something like this: http://maemo-hackers.org/browser/osso-statusbar-cpu/trunk/src/common.c#L109 Jan 18 07:12:23 inz: lol Jan 18 07:12:42 inz: i'm actually using that applet as a base... or was... the popup_place function is actually *IN* an old version of my code Jan 18 07:13:21 the problem is, they get the position of the button from some gpointer it gets passed as part of the click event Jan 18 07:13:29 and i can't figure out how to get that Jan 18 07:13:47 err, rather, as part of the "menu_popup" event Jan 18 07:15:03 it appears to just be a pointer to the button... but i can't get the right data out of it :/ Jan 18 07:15:30 Do it correctly, then. Jan 18 07:15:36 lol Jan 18 07:15:46 rm_you, yeah, it's just a pointer to the button instance Jan 18 07:15:53 gdk_window_get_position(button->window, x, y); Jan 18 07:16:06 but when *I* do it, it says the button has no "window" thing Jan 18 07:16:23 It seems really sad to me that this isn't documented at all. Jan 18 07:16:24 It must be a GtkWidget to have a window Jan 18 07:16:37 So GTK_WIDGET(button)->window should work Jan 18 07:16:49 BLEGH Jan 18 07:18:02 Remember, this is C, object stuff is done via hacks Jan 18 07:20:55 >_> Jan 18 07:20:56 annoying Jan 18 07:21:20 still getting: advanced-backlight.c:128: warning: passing arg 1 of `gdk_window_get_position' makes pointer from integer without a cast Jan 18 07:21:25 think that'll be a problem? >_> i do Jan 18 07:21:40 gdk_window_get_position(GTK_WIDGET(button)>window, &x, &y); Jan 18 07:22:01 You're missing a dash Jan 18 07:22:07 ACK Jan 18 07:22:08 lol Jan 18 07:22:10 *hate* Jan 18 07:22:13 The result of a comparison is always an integer Jan 18 07:22:34 typo >_> Jan 18 07:22:39 In C that is, in other languages it might be a boolean Jan 18 07:24:14 SWEET! Jan 18 07:24:15 For the border/theming thing, you might want to check the gtkrc-files Jan 18 07:24:26 if only this had a nice border, this would be perfect Jan 18 07:24:33 thanks johnx, inz! :P Jan 18 07:24:37 lol Jan 18 07:24:38 nice Jan 18 07:24:51 you read my thoughts (though i guess i mentioned that before) Jan 18 07:25:14 You might have, but I have not seen it Jan 18 07:25:44 You could also run strings on the plugins, but that might have too much info, if you don't know what you're looking for Jan 18 07:25:44 err, not about how, just the question :P Jan 18 07:25:58 yeah, i've done stuff like that before... maybe :/ Jan 18 07:25:58 Ahh, the question you did mention Jan 18 07:26:15 but yeah, not quite sure what i'd be looking for Jan 18 07:26:21 still perusing the gtk/gdk API... Jan 18 07:26:41 IIRC the home applet theming stuff is done using named widgets (gtk_widget_set_name), this might be something similar Jan 18 07:26:43 i'm using an hbox + vbox to add padding to the thing so it looks decent... Jan 18 07:27:19 Or rather was done, nowadays they come in all shapes and colors ;) Jan 18 07:27:49 hrm Jan 18 07:27:58 i guess menus ARE a popup type window Jan 18 07:28:08 so maybe i can figure out what a menu adds Jan 18 07:33:33 You could try something like: strings | while read i; do grep -q "$i" gtkrc* && echo $i; done Jan 18 07:46:33 how do i open a term or install a terminal that will affect an exported scratchbox gui? Jan 18 07:47:30 advanced-backlight.c:198: warning: implicit declaration of function `system' Jan 18 07:47:43 how would i make it shut up about that? like... by fixing the code, not by disabling warnings :P Jan 18 07:47:59 Preferred solution: don't use system() Jan 18 07:48:05 :( Jan 18 07:48:09 yeah dont make a system() function Jan 18 07:48:12 what... execv? >_> Jan 18 07:48:23 g_spawn_* are nice Jan 18 07:48:36 If you really want to use system, #include Jan 18 07:48:39 lol wow... never heard of that. i'll look it up. Jan 18 07:48:39 But you don't Jan 18 07:48:52 ... i just want to run a program that already exists >_> Jan 18 07:48:57 system isn't a good way to do that? Jan 18 07:49:03 not really, no Jan 18 07:49:07 >_> Jan 18 07:49:13 k, i will look up g_spawn Jan 18 07:49:40 Especially you don't want to do it from a desktop plugin Jan 18 07:49:51 reasoning? Jan 18 07:49:57 man system: ...and returns after the command has been completed. Jan 18 07:50:08 that's bad? Jan 18 07:50:13 >_> Jan 18 07:50:21 while the command is running, desktop won't do anything Jan 18 07:50:25 at all Jan 18 07:50:26 you can tell i know like, nothing about C <_< Jan 18 07:50:42 pretty much the same for most other languages too Jan 18 07:50:46 common function Jan 18 07:50:47 It's not really C knowledge, but rather GLib knowledge here Jan 18 07:50:55 I use java mostly :/ Jan 18 07:51:39 hmm, i have something i wanna run but need to run by command line in scratchbox.. i want it to appear on the 'exported' gui in xephyr? Jan 18 07:51:50 A java coder doing an desktop applet Jan 18 07:52:11 Java coder + C ~= memory leak Jan 18 07:52:20 Memory leak in a software that is constantly running = not nice Jan 18 07:52:23 yeah... see: http://www.stsc.hill.af.mil/CrossTalk/2008/01/0801DewarSchonberg.html Jan 18 07:52:34 inz, ~=? Jan 18 07:52:39 inz: lol... i had someone check it over who IS a C coder :P no leaks Jan 18 07:52:45 approximately equal Jan 18 07:53:04 ehhe Jan 18 07:53:16 I know it's in UTF-8, there's just no keybind for it Jan 18 07:53:39 So ~= ~= approximately equal Jan 18 07:53:44 ^^ Jan 18 07:53:47 ^_^ Jan 18 07:54:06 yeah i remember from school.. Jan 18 07:54:14 i guess =~ just engrained itself in me Jan 18 07:54:19 ~= looks wrong Jan 18 07:54:40 ‽ Jan 18 07:54:42 ≈ Jan 18 07:54:49 nice Jan 18 07:54:53 opt-x Jan 18 07:56:18 both my cable and my dsl connection decided to stop being able to resolve domain names... Jan 18 07:56:28 4.2.2.1 Jan 18 07:56:28 truent, but as ~ is bitwise-not, =~ is assignment of bitwise not Jan 18 07:57:04 But ~= has no meaning, as ~ is an unary operator Jan 18 07:57:34 So it's safer ;) Jan 18 07:57:35 well i think of the regular expression notation in perl/ruby Jan 18 07:57:39 but i read ya Jan 18 07:58:27 @blah =~ /~=/ Jan 18 07:58:29 ;) Jan 18 07:58:40 I guess perl and ruby don't have binary not Jan 18 07:58:58 Which does make sense Jan 18 07:59:07 ruby has i think just unary Jan 18 07:59:19 cant remember for perl but i'd assume the same-ish Jan 18 07:59:27 You mean boolean not? Jan 18 07:59:39 bitwise operaters at all Jan 18 07:59:49 operators rather Jan 18 08:00:22 ~ is complement Jan 18 08:01:39 welp off to bed Jan 18 08:01:58 You'll have nightmares Jan 18 08:02:00 go learn ruby and have some fun for the n800's sake Jan 18 08:02:03 ;p Jan 18 08:02:13 Someone will try to xor bits off of you Jan 18 08:02:18 inz: what do you think... g_spawn_command_line_sync or g_spawn_command_line_async? Jan 18 08:02:19 heh Jan 18 08:02:23 wouldnt doubt it Jan 18 08:02:25 ;p Jan 18 08:02:42 prolly async? Jan 18 08:02:51 rm_you, async you're not waiting i would guess? Jan 18 08:03:05 Of those options, definitely _async Jan 18 08:03:24 rm_you, ruby for you too.. alot of java guys comin to the lightside Jan 18 08:03:26 g'night Jan 18 08:03:27 ;P Jan 18 08:03:39 rm, If you want to know when the program ends, you need to use some additional magic Jan 18 08:03:40 redside? Jan 18 08:03:42 i dunno Jan 18 08:03:55 lol Jan 18 08:04:17 I do python mostly if i'm not doing java >_> Jan 18 08:05:48 I don't suppose anyone in here knows how to set up a toolbar shortcut in osso-xterm for "\td" that would work in Vim, do they? Jan 18 08:06:13 inz: >_> this doesn't seem to be working at all. *sigh* Jan 18 08:06:17 (OS 2007 HE if that matters any, if the OS 2008 xterm is special or something.) Jan 18 08:08:20 * GreySim has tried "<\>,t,d" and "\,t,d" and "\td" and isn't sure what else to try. Perhaps \ just isn't usable? Jan 18 08:08:39 \\ Jan 18 08:08:46 probably need to escape the \ ? Jan 18 08:09:02 Grey, the problem is that osso-xterm uses keycodes Jan 18 08:09:36 Eeep. Any hints on getting that keycode then? :| Jan 18 08:09:56 Grey, does backslash work Jan 18 08:10:21 inz: system(command); works, g_spawn_command_line_async(command,NULL); doesn't. thoughts? Jan 18 08:10:41 hmm Jan 18 08:10:47 inz: Seemingly not. Checking to make sure it's not because of some nmap foolery in my vimrc though. Jan 18 08:12:17 Nope. Jan 18 08:12:20 rm, do you know what g_spawn_command_line_async returns? Jan 18 08:12:36 TRUE/FALSE Jan 18 08:13:04 rm, yeah, know dat, but in your case Jan 18 08:13:16 Grey, it works for me, weird Jan 18 08:13:26 ah, lol Jan 18 08:13:27 checking Jan 18 08:13:38 OH Jan 18 08:13:40 Grey, it is case sensitive Jan 18 08:13:40 It does. Jan 18 08:13:56 I figured it was case sensitive, and you just weren't capitalizing it. :P Jan 18 08:14:02 My mistake. Thanks a bunch. Jan 18 08:14:21 Why would I do that ;) Jan 18 08:14:40 Grey, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/gtk+/gdk/gdkkeysyms.h Jan 18 08:15:36 Oooh, brilliant. Thanks. Jan 18 08:16:14 inz: it is returning true >_> Jan 18 08:16:29 Between that, the toolbar, mouse=a in .vimrc, and judicious use of nmap and noremap, Vim on Maemo is a real powerhouse. :D Jan 18 08:16:39 inz: so it is succeeding... but the command obviously isn't being run Jan 18 08:16:54 rm, dat be weird Jan 18 08:23:06 inz: "g_spawn_command_line_async("echo working > /home/user/testme.txt", NULL);" doesn't work Jan 18 08:23:21 inz: but "g_spawn_command_line_async("touch /home/user/testme.txt", NULL);" does. >_< Jan 18 08:23:40 rm, that's because g_spawn_command_line doesn't run a sh Jan 18 08:23:50 what does it run Jan 18 08:23:51 Seriously, thanks a ton. With that info, http://hogbaysoftware.com/products/taskpaper_vim is now an acceptable GTD system on Maemo for me. Almost as nice as a GUI app even. I'll try to write up a good through howto on ITT before the end of the weekend. :) Jan 18 08:23:58 rm, the command you give it Jan 18 08:24:08 ... Jan 18 08:24:15 rm, > is a feature of a shell Jan 18 08:24:15 ok well, the REAL command is: Jan 18 08:24:46 sudo /usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs/ dsmetest -l 100 2>> /home/user/dsmelog Jan 18 08:24:57 so i guess that fails? >_> Jan 18 08:25:03 rm, yup Jan 18 08:25:07 the 2>> obviously does Jan 18 08:25:17 but what about just: sudo /usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs/ dsmetest -l 100 Jan 18 08:25:26 rm, that should work aight Jan 18 08:26:07 rm, you can of course explicitly tell it to run sh, like ...("/bin/sh -c 'your command'"...) Jan 18 08:26:26 heh yeah Jan 18 08:26:28 whatever that is fine Jan 18 08:26:47 yay Jan 18 08:27:23 rm, or you could do the stderr handling in your own program, using g_shell_parse_argv and g_spawn_async_with_pipes Jan 18 08:27:57 true Jan 18 08:28:02 doesnt matter at this point though Jan 18 08:28:09 that was purely cruft from prior debugging Jan 18 08:29:57 inz: thanks for the tons of help :) Jan 18 08:30:24 now i just need to package this up and release it as a new version :) Jan 18 08:30:36 GeneralAntilles: woo :) Jan 18 08:30:43 johnx: you around? Jan 18 08:31:14 * johnx eats dinner Jan 18 08:31:17 lol k Jan 18 08:31:32 johnx: you said pypackager was the eeeeeeeeeeeeeeasy way to make a deb quick? :P Jan 18 08:31:48 Did you win? Jan 18 08:31:54 rm, only for python Jan 18 08:31:59 GeneralAntilles: yes Jan 18 08:32:02 inz: :( Jan 18 08:32:09 rm_you, google cdbs dh_make Jan 18 08:32:51 every project starts with "easy" at the beginning Jan 18 08:33:08 hwh Jan 18 08:33:10 *heh Jan 18 08:33:17 dh_make is quite ez Jan 18 08:33:30 If you use autotools, it will pretty much work out-of-the-box Jan 18 08:34:20 inz: yes, untill it does not work. then you are pretty much in the proccess of understanding all the things that dh_make does Jan 18 08:35:10 keesj, dh_make doesn't really do all that much Jan 18 08:35:21 keesj, but you need to understand how debhelper works Jan 18 08:35:46 right, and the order in wich they are called Jan 18 08:36:35 I still miss some pieces about when to patch , what a .orig file is supposed to be and the whole workflow :p Jan 18 08:36:51 johnx: neat... still lost :) ah well... will just stick with my tar.gz / install.sh for now :) Jan 18 08:37:16 That's a fail. Jan 18 08:37:23 <_< Jan 18 08:37:29 I think the best is to help people creating debs Jan 18 08:37:46 if (your code in svn) whe help package Jan 18 08:37:47 I'm not stumping for a .tar.gz/install.sh :P Jan 18 08:38:20 GeneralAntilles: lol Jan 18 08:39:02 keesj, .orig should contain the upstream version of the package source Jan 18 08:39:19 keesj, if there is no upstream version, then you don't need one (and your version number shouldn't have a dash) Jan 18 08:39:54 yeah it's mostly the orig and diff stuff that's confusing me... Jan 18 08:40:00 there's only one version... and i have it Jan 18 08:40:13 err, wrote it Jan 18 08:41:23 inz and if you want to patch an upstream project where would the change go? Jan 18 08:41:45 keesj, depends Jan 18 08:42:05 keesj, many maintainers prefer stuff that allows you to have multiple patches Jan 18 08:42:16 keesj, in that case, the patches go to debian/patches Jan 18 08:42:29 yes, I would like to use quilt or similar Jan 18 08:42:52 keesj, Then they should go there Jan 18 08:43:36 keesj, and the debian/ directory will be in the _-.diff.gz Jan 18 08:43:54 keesj, if using quilt, the .diff.gz should only contain the debian/ -directory, nothing else Jan 18 08:45:30 inz where did you learn this? Jan 18 08:45:45 'mornin Jan 18 08:47:57 keesj, by doing it ;) Jan 18 08:48:14 keesj, the debian maintainer's guide should also give you a lot of ths Jan 18 08:48:23 keesj, but it is so long. I never got to reading it Jan 18 08:48:52 man, pyglet on maemo would be pretty cool Jan 18 08:49:29 inz: I think very few people actually read it. most just learn pavlov-style Jan 18 08:52:21 good morning Jan 18 08:53:03 I have read some of it and it was really a good time investment Jan 18 08:53:13 re Jan 18 08:53:33 what I need i a practial aproach :p Jan 18 08:54:39 johnx: wow. maybe it's because of the time, and the fact that i havent slept well in about 4 days now, but i'm still totally lost. i'll try again in the morning Jan 18 08:55:02 rm_you, ok Jan 18 08:55:04 ack, i also have a small paper due in the morning <_< Jan 18 08:55:12 will talk to you then Jan 18 08:56:29 GeneralAntilles: will try packaging it in the morning... meanwhile, if you can't wait, the newest .so is: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight.so Jan 18 09:07:53 Looks good, rm_you. Jan 18 09:10:10 This is a very good learning experience >_> Jan 18 09:10:40 I think I will be able to write some basic GTK frontend stuff for a normal system now, too... which i've always wanted to be able to do Jan 18 09:10:41 Any way to make the menu wider? Jan 18 09:10:48 The ticks are stacking up on eachother. Jan 18 09:10:51 GeneralAntilles: i think so. I can do that if you want Jan 18 09:11:00 GeneralAntilles: how much wider, you think? Jan 18 09:11:09 128 steps Jan 18 09:11:19 3px-ish per step? Jan 18 09:11:34 right, but i dont know the pixel size of the side buttons Jan 18 09:11:38 that would be huge >_> Jan 18 09:11:40 50-percent screen width seems kinda excessive. Jan 18 09:12:02 GeneralAntilles: it doesn't seem to matter much once you get to the kind of scale it already has... Jan 18 09:12:08 Yeah Jan 18 09:12:18 do you really need 128 steps? wouldn't 64 be enough? Jan 18 09:12:26 +/- even up to 5 or so brightness doesnt matter except at the very very bottom of the scale Jan 18 09:12:44 I'd be fine with 64 steps if the +/- still did 1-step increments Jan 18 09:13:07 Yeah 0/1-6 is really where I want the resolution Jan 18 09:13:16 Beyond that it doesn't matter. Jan 18 09:13:34 i'll tweak it some tomorrow Jan 18 09:13:41 Sleeeeep. :P Jan 18 09:13:48 michele_, the backlight has 128 steps. Jan 18 09:14:05 michele_: that's Nokia thinking right there :P Jan 18 09:14:18 I meant in the UI Jan 18 09:14:24 right... Jan 18 09:14:36 if the hw allows it, it doesn't mean you have to display it Jan 18 09:14:37 it starts with just one concession... "well, they don't actually need all 128, just 64.." Jan 18 09:14:38 Yeah, like I said, if I can increment by 1 with the buttons. . . . Jan 18 09:14:47 then "well, 64 is a bit much, maybe just 32..." Jan 18 09:14:52 any news on evince text selection feature? Jan 18 09:14:54 Have each tick represent two levels. Jan 18 09:15:07 Assuming that's doable. Jan 18 09:15:14 michele_: next thing you know, it's down to 5 levels >_> Jan 18 09:15:16 lol Jan 18 09:15:26 GeneralAntilles: it's just pixel-magic Jan 18 09:15:44 if i size it such that it is exactly 64 pixels for the slider part, that will just "be". Jan 18 09:16:02 Can you change it to a volume-style slider? Jan 18 09:16:03 it may be off by a couple, such that the odd pixel or three is its own one Jan 18 09:16:08 Rather than a tick-style slider. Jan 18 09:16:16 GeneralAntilles: yes but not really? i think Jan 18 09:16:26 lol Jan 18 09:16:31 GeneralAntilles: i believe the volume thing does some very specific things Jan 18 09:16:33 yes... Jan 18 09:16:38 like, for instance, includes a mute button Jan 18 09:16:40 >_> Jan 18 09:16:41 Niggling little nitpickings. Jan 18 09:16:44 It looks good Jan 18 09:16:45 works great Jan 18 09:16:46 >_> Jan 18 09:16:47 thanks! Jan 18 09:16:50 mute button :P Jan 18 09:16:53 mute = turn off screen :D Jan 18 09:16:54 lol Jan 18 09:16:57 ^ Jan 18 09:17:10 i think it's hard-bound to the mixer... >_> Jan 18 09:17:17 That's dumb. Jan 18 09:17:29 very strange Jan 18 09:17:45 http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/hildon/HildonVolumebar.html Jan 18 09:17:46 wait, is there source for any of these except for statusbar-cpu? Jan 18 09:17:53 johnx: nope Jan 18 09:18:02 johnx: thus all the reverse engineering >_> Jan 18 09:18:12 truly amazing Jan 18 09:18:37 what about HildonControlbar? Jan 18 09:18:47 johnx: lol Jan 18 09:18:52 johnx: that's what i'm using Jan 18 09:19:00 heh Jan 18 09:19:14 sorry, haven't been reading the source Jan 18 09:19:23 :P Jan 18 09:19:24 rm, where's the source for the latest version? Jan 18 09:19:24 I'm ok with 5 levels :) Jan 18 09:19:29 god playing with the cat wears me more out than him Jan 18 09:19:30 inz: i'll post it, sec Jan 18 09:19:45 he just lifted hi paw in the end lol Jan 18 09:19:48 so funny Jan 18 09:20:02 johnx, you're nuts. Jan 18 09:20:05 like the instinct telling him to move his paw...but not move Jan 18 09:20:07 How do you read at night? :P Jan 18 09:20:16 rofl Jan 18 09:20:22 with a nice bright screen :) Jan 18 09:20:33 Sunglasses? Jan 18 09:20:37 lol Jan 18 09:20:43 My cat's doing laps, LinuxCode. Jan 18 09:20:49 laps ? Jan 18 09:20:50 lol Jan 18 09:20:57 runnign around like a nut ? Jan 18 09:20:58 * johnx breaks into song "I weeeear my sungglasses at niiiiight" Jan 18 09:20:59 Running from the front door to the back wall and back. Jan 18 09:21:05 rofl Jan 18 09:21:09 mine does that Jan 18 09:21:13 goes a bit nuts.. Jan 18 09:21:18 plays hide and seek Jan 18 09:22:23 rm, and don't package the binary in the source tarball ;) Jan 18 09:23:55 inz: pffft. I wasn't :P Jan 18 09:24:18 http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight-0.5-src.tar.gz Jan 18 09:24:19 rm_you's Binary Tarball of Doom Jan 18 09:24:23 lol Jan 18 09:24:32 Hi folks, my N810 has altered in some way so that I can't write to the onboard SD card - /media/mmc2. It seems to be mounted read only, but I am sure I didn't do that... Jan 18 09:24:45 inz: trust me... i know that pain. one of the people i develop with insists on checking his binaries into SVN >_> Jan 18 09:24:46 It's corrupted, format it, seb_. Jan 18 09:24:49 thats the second time today Jan 18 09:24:59 * LinuxCode spanks GeneralAntilles Jan 18 09:25:07 Hey! Jan 18 09:25:17 seb_, remount it Jan 18 09:25:22 rm, the 0.4b tarball had it Jan 18 09:25:28 seb_: you have access to a windows box and are able to run scan disk or similar on it? Jan 18 09:25:30 inz: wahg? Jan 18 09:25:50 GeneralAntilles: No way, that doesn't bode well - all I did was write some data to it. Still, I'll reformat if necessary. I tried mount -o remount,rw and that didn't work. Jan 18 09:25:59 inz: damn, must have missed it that distro Jan 18 09:26:03 it was a quickie :/ Jan 18 09:26:23 seb_, hmm Jan 18 09:26:25 chille: No access to an XP box, though I do have a win2k one here. But I'd rather not bother booting it ;) Jan 18 09:26:37 inz: none of the others do ^_^ Jan 18 09:26:39 this one guy held the select button Jan 18 09:26:49 rebooted and then mounted it via usb in linux Jan 18 09:26:53 seb_: well, i can understand why you don't want to oot a windows box ;) Jan 18 09:26:55 then ran fsck Jan 18 09:26:57 boot* Jan 18 09:26:57 afaik Jan 18 09:27:04 rm, I forgive you, it was "beta" after all ;) Jan 18 09:27:10 I'll fsck. Jan 18 09:27:13 Hang on. Jan 18 09:27:26 bon dia / good morning Jan 18 09:28:15 Oh, what dev file will it be? Jan 18 09:28:33 inz: you wanting to look at my horrible code? :P Jan 18 09:28:49 inz: please, feel free to comment on how i could improve :) Jan 18 09:29:16 rm, nay, don't want to see it Jan 18 09:29:30 inz: lol? you *asked* for it specifically :P Jan 18 09:29:49 yeah, but that doesn't mean I want to see it Jan 18 09:29:52 lol Jan 18 09:29:56 http://inz.fi/advanced-backlight_0.5-1.diff.gz Jan 18 09:30:06 Got it, /dev/mmcblk0 Jan 18 09:30:23 seb_, you are doing this on the device itself ? Jan 18 09:30:28 I dont even have fsck Jan 18 09:30:39 LinuxCode: yes, and it has fsck onboard. Jan 18 09:30:56 isn't mmcblk0p1 what you want? Jan 18 09:31:00 LinuxCode. Nokia-N810-50-2:~# ls /dev/mmcblk0* gives /dev/mmcblk0 and /dev/mmcblk0p1 Jan 18 09:31:03 you running default nokia + maemo test ? Jan 18 09:31:04 inz: ok... yeah... Jan 18 09:31:26 Didn't try the .deb prouced yet though Jan 18 09:31:27 LinuxCode: Reflashed to most recent OS2008, but haven't add the SDK or anything Jan 18 09:31:35 inz: but how to make it do stuff like, run all of the commands in the install.sh script? Jan 18 09:31:48 rm, read the patch Jan 18 09:32:11 ah Jan 18 09:32:16 becomes the .postinst Jan 18 09:32:25 yup Jan 18 09:32:32 I cleand it up a bit Jan 18 09:32:37 To make it simpler Jan 18 09:32:44 how do i split this diff up into all its component files? Jan 18 09:32:46 On my N810, there are two directories for the mmc card - /media/mmc1 and /media/mmc2, but only one partition /dev/mmcblk0p1. Jan 18 09:33:25 hmm I dunno how the other fella did it Jan 18 09:33:52 mmc1 is the external flash Jan 18 09:33:52 im sure he said he fsck'd in usb mode Jan 18 09:34:13 rm, wget -O /tmp/patch.gz http://inz.fi/advanced-backlight_0.5-1.diff.gz; cd advanced-backlight-0.5; gzip -dc /tmp/patch.gz | patch -p1 Jan 18 09:34:28 GeneralAntilles: I see. Jan 18 09:34:45 GeneralAntilles: Does it come with that external flash slot already installed? Jan 18 09:34:48 inz: what does that patch do Jan 18 09:34:50 ? Jan 18 09:35:02 LoCusF, adds debian packaging Jan 18 09:35:03 seb_, uh, yeah, they put that in at the factory. Jan 18 09:35:04 seb_, external = micro-sd card Jan 18 09:35:10 THanks. Jan 18 09:35:15 GeneralAntilles, ? Jan 18 09:35:19 I didnt have a second card Jan 18 09:35:20 And that's the 2GB card, right? Jan 18 09:35:26 inz: so, i just run debian/rules and it should package up? Jan 18 09:35:27 * LinuxCode is confused Jan 18 09:35:29 mmc2 is the internal flash Jan 18 09:35:39 rm, usually you use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Jan 18 09:35:45 Ok. How much internal flash is there? Jan 18 09:35:47 rm, other option is to run fakeroot debian/rules binary Jan 18 09:35:58 2GB Jan 18 09:36:04 +256 Jan 18 09:36:11 Thanks. Jan 18 09:36:39 That's useful. I think there is something wrong with this device, because I have only ever seen a 2GB (or rather 1.7GB) partition. Jan 18 09:36:46 inz: ok... so... i wonder if that works Jan 18 09:37:29 No, there's nothing wrong with it. Jan 18 09:37:51 seb_, you will only see the 2GB Jan 18 09:37:57 its like that Jan 18 09:38:02 somebody had the same issue you had Jan 18 09:38:03 GeneralAntilles: Oh. Odd. Jan 18 09:38:09 means.... Jan 18 09:38:22 The filesystem is corrupt. Jan 18 09:38:25 either you unmounted and it wasnt finished writing to it Jan 18 09:39:10 Yes, I think the filesystem is corrupt too. First thing, I think I will reformat the card, see if that fixes it. Jan 18 09:39:19 It will. Jan 18 09:39:52 Here is something I don't understand: fstab has a line /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/mmc1 vfat rw,noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999 0 0 Jan 18 09:40:05 But df -h shows this: /dev/mmcblk0p1 1.9G 1.5G 421.3M 78% /media/mmc2 Jan 18 09:40:23 so ? Jan 18 09:40:26 type mount Jan 18 09:41:08 Well, usually , the fstab file defines where things will end up being mounted. Jan 18 09:41:49 Guess that isn't the case. mount shows that mmcblk0p1 is indeed mounted at /media/mmc2. Jan 18 09:42:00 Also shows it as mounted ro. Jan 18 09:43:10 inz: where here does it ACTUALLY put the files in the right directories? Jan 18 09:43:37 rules puts them in "debian/tmp/usr/lib/hildon-desktop/" and "debian/tmp/usr/share/applications/hildon-status-bar/".... Jan 18 09:43:59 is there some sort of magic involved in debian_helper that translates that to the real paths? Jan 18 09:47:06 reformatted and it's now mounted rw. Jan 18 09:48:42 out of curiosity seb_, would you run sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 Jan 18 09:49:13 rm_you, dh_install Jan 18 09:49:43 k Jan 18 09:50:31 Nokia-N810-50-2:~# sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 Jan 18 09:50:31 Disk /dev/mmcblk0: 61440 cylinders, 4 heads, 16 sectors/track Jan 18 09:50:31 Units = cylinders of 32768 bytes, blocks of 1024 bytes, counting from 0 Jan 18 09:50:31 Device Boot Start End #cyls #blocks Id System Jan 18 09:50:31 /dev/mmcblk0p1 0+ 61439 61440- 1966072 b W95 FAT32 Jan 18 09:50:32 /dev/mmcblk0p2 0 - 0 0 0 Empty Jan 18 09:50:34 /dev/mmcblk0p3 0 - 0 0 0 Empty Jan 18 09:50:36 /dev/mmcblk0p4 0 - 0 0 0 Empty Jan 18 09:50:41 gah. sometimes i think i'm really good... and then I try doing something slightly different for a while and remember how much of a n00b i am :P Jan 18 09:52:16 seb_ looks normal at least. I think at least one person somehow managed to end up with the parition claiming to be bigger than the device Jan 18 09:53:35 johnx: /dev/mmcblk0p1 74+ 73094- 73021- 4016128 b W95 FAT32 Jan 18 09:53:50 johnx: mine looks... odd :P Jan 18 09:54:07 on his, cylinders < blocks... mine is reversed :P Jan 18 09:54:07 johnx: I see. Well, I'll try copying my data onto it again. Have been using scp to do that, can't imagine that should cause any trouble.. Jan 18 09:55:14 rm_you, I don't think those are falling under the right heading is all Jan 18 09:55:14 is that what the 74+ on mine means? >_> Jan 18 09:55:40 in order is: start end "total # of blocks" "total # of cylinders" Jan 18 09:55:56 hrm Jan 18 09:56:00 start: (c,h,s) expected (74,5,3) found (1,2,3) Jan 18 09:56:00 end: (c,h,s) expected (1023,10,10) found (997,10,10) Jan 18 09:56:20 weird. well, anyways, it works for me :P Jan 18 09:56:25 and i need to go run and print this paper Jan 18 09:56:27 and then sleep Jan 18 09:56:36 i have to wake up in... ... god fucking damnit Jan 18 09:56:38 The formatting problem might explain why some ogg-vorbis tracks were showing up in Media-Player(OGG) as realaudio files and not working.... Jan 18 09:57:48 So, let me get this straight - the N810 has a 2 GB replaceable sd-mmc card for user data, and 2GB of internal storage for the operating system? Jan 18 09:58:30 No Jan 18 09:58:50 There's 256MB of flash for the OS/user storage/applications, etc. Jan 18 09:59:06 There's 2GB of flash soldered to the board Jan 18 09:59:19 and then there's an external MiniSD slot for cards up to 2048GB Jan 18 10:00:09 the 2GB of flash soldered to the board is addressed as an SD card, thus explaining why it's a block device and where the /dev name came from Jan 18 10:00:52 I don't know why they didn't just keep it as another slot . . . Jan 18 10:00:57 Ah ha. So I can buy another miniSD card to expant it. Jan 18 10:01:00 Wouldn't be that hard to bundle a 2GB card with the maps. Jan 18 10:01:44 You definitely can't install >2048 MB? Jan 18 10:02:14 Not unless you open it up, desolder the flash and resolder a new chip on there. Jan 18 10:03:56 But the external slot - why is that limited to 2048 MB? Jan 18 10:04:11 I think it isnt Jan 18 10:04:14 Hi Jan 18 10:04:29 2048GB Jan 18 10:04:36 i ve received my N810 ! Nice device ! Jan 18 10:04:40 I have a 4GB microSD for that slot Jan 18 10:04:45 Oh 2048 GB - I though that was a typo ;) Jan 18 10:04:53 oh gb :) Jan 18 10:05:07 I've only typed it about 4 times. . . . Jan 18 10:05:16 true :) Jan 18 10:05:17 but shutdown button is hard to press when keyboard is open Jan 18 10:05:23 GeneralAntilles: I apologise for my error Jan 18 10:05:38 Kidding, seb_. :) Jan 18 10:06:05 Shame I can't use all these 32768 GB cards I have lying around ;) Jan 18 10:06:59 1 terabyte mini/microSD's would rock Jan 18 10:07:16 Well, wait five years... Jan 18 10:07:22 Problem with flash memory that big is that they still only transfer data in the 5-15MB/sec range. ;) Jan 18 10:07:41 hehe Jan 18 10:07:52 If we're still using SD-format cards by that time, there's no reason it couldn't be patched for sizes over 2TB. Jan 18 10:08:08 Yes. That's true. In fact, I installed a 2GB CF card in a slightly old Nikon digital camera and it seemed _really_ slow to store and retrieve theimages. Jan 18 10:09:10 I lost my map data when I reformatted the internal drive. I should be able to re-install it through the map application, shouldn't I? Jan 18 10:09:17 Yes. Jan 18 10:09:22 Great Jan 18 10:09:30 Personally, I'd just forget about that and use maemo mapper. ;) Jan 18 10:09:48 It's better by all accounts, right? Jan 18 10:09:57 Minus turn-by-turn, yes. Jan 18 10:10:29 What do you have to do to get maemo mapper to work with the GPS. I heard you have to tweak something. Jan 18 10:11:20 use empty bt address Jan 18 10:19:46 LoCusF: Ok, I leave that field empty - should I then press the scan button? Jan 18 10:27:45 afaik, seb_, it'll use the gpsd Jan 18 10:45:56 have anyone tried modifying the BIOS on a device? Jan 18 10:46:08 i want to try to change the startup picture Jan 18 10:46:28 There's no BIOS Jan 18 10:46:31 but i don't know if there is any kind of checksum or similar that will brick the device if i dan't update it Jan 18 10:46:51 well, not bios, i meam more lik.. the loader that is inside the OMAP Jan 18 10:46:58 that starts the bootloader etc Jan 18 10:47:33 the code that displays the "charging" screen if the chrger is plugged in and the device is turned off etc Jan 18 10:47:52 xloader, 2nd & secondary in the image file Jan 18 10:48:40 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14310 Jan 18 10:49:42 GeneralAntilles: i mean the "first" starup screen, not the one in the gui Jan 18 10:49:54 You'll need a JTAG cable. Jan 18 10:50:18 actually there is four starup screen, first the one in the "bios", then one in a bootloader or kernel (don't know what) and then there is two *.png's in the gui Jan 18 10:51:06 i NEED? for what? to recover the machine if a brick it? the picture is in the image from nokia, so it would probably be possible to change the image and flash the device Jan 18 10:51:41 The image isn't in a user-accessible part of the flash. Jan 18 10:51:57 You'd need a JTAG cable to attach to the serial port to flash it. Jan 18 10:52:25 With custom images as outlined in the thread above, you only get about 5 seconds of the Nokia logo. Jan 18 10:52:26 are you sure? i think i found something in the 2nd that might be the nokia logo, but i'm not sure yet, i'm working on it Jan 18 10:52:37 seems to be an RLE-encoded image or something Jan 18 10:52:43 Fairly certain Jan 18 10:52:57 But, if you think you've found something, replace it and find out Jan 18 10:52:59 yeah, but that 5 seconds is 5 seconds to much for mee Jan 18 10:53:13 yeah, but i'm to scared of bricking the device Jan 18 10:53:24 because i don't know if the image got any kind of checksum or so Jan 18 10:53:37 but maybe the flasher would whine is the checksum is wrong Jan 18 10:53:58 but whatever, i got a JTAG cable, so maybe there's no problem Jan 18 10:54:17 The worst you'll have to do is reflash. Jan 18 10:54:32 reflash with the JTAG cable? Jan 18 10:54:32 If you find a solution that doesn't require JTAG cable, let me know. Jan 18 10:54:39 No, USB. Jan 18 10:54:41 Most likely Jan 18 10:55:05 yeah but the problem is if i crach the bootloader it wont probably be possible to reflash the device with a USB cable Jan 18 10:55:42 Eh, you have a JTAG cable, then, right? :P Jan 18 10:56:05 yes, i have, but is it ALWAYS possible to reflash the device via JTAG? Jan 18 10:56:24 Unless it becomes a hardware problem. Jan 18 10:56:31 "always" is quite strong word Jan 18 10:56:31 even if i fuck it up and crach the NAND Flash inside the OMAP? Jan 18 10:56:41 almost as strong as "never" Jan 18 10:57:05 well, have to and eat some lunch Jan 18 10:57:16 thanks for the help btw Jan 18 10:57:32 bbl Jan 18 11:02:25 Am i the only one for whom maemo extras is permanently broken? Jan 18 11:02:37 Quite possibly, yes. Jan 18 11:02:45 Nokia has specifically targeted you. Jan 18 11:02:48 They hate your guts. :P Jan 18 11:02:52 Same error? Jan 18 11:03:05 GeneralAntilles: :-P Jan 18 11:03:29 Yeah - consistent 401s: Jan 18 11:03:40 From my squid proxy log: 1200654182.743 526 127.0.0.1 TCP_MISS/401 867 GET http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/non-free/binary-armel/Packages.gz - DIRECT/203.206.139.71 text/html Jan 18 11:04:00 e-mail ferenc or hit up bugzilla Jan 18 11:04:16 Or try not proxying Jan 18 11:04:24 Tried that already Jan 18 11:04:26 blahdeblah, i had issues too Jan 18 11:04:40 still have Jan 18 11:04:40 LinuxCode: i'm all ears... Jan 18 11:04:52 when downloading larger files... Jan 18 11:04:56 it just stops Jan 18 11:05:10 but I thought it might be my old crappy AP Jan 18 11:05:16 as I dont really like wlan Jan 18 11:05:18 hehe Jan 18 11:05:25 only use it now for the N810 Jan 18 11:05:57 actually disregard Jan 18 11:06:02 Me to - although i had a client's wireless laptop in here the other day and it worked fine. Jan 18 11:06:05 claws repo is the same Jan 18 11:06:19 But i get it from my desktop as well as the N800, and it's wired, not wireless Jan 18 11:06:24 blahdeblah, which country are you based at ? Jan 18 11:06:42 UK ? Jan 18 11:06:50 .au Jan 18 11:06:54 k Jan 18 11:09:44 * blahdeblah goes hammering on bugzilla Jan 18 11:38:26 hey guys, im at work at the moment but I just read a very interesting report about HTC owners forming a class action suit regarding Poor graphics performance and not utilising the hardware in their devices. Jan 18 11:38:31 sounds familiar????? Jan 18 11:38:37 http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/17/htc-owners-arms-graphics Jan 18 11:39:10 class action? Jan 18 11:39:11 <_< Jan 18 11:39:41 It's a hardware limitation and we weren't promised anything we didn't get going in. Jan 18 11:41:01 wheres the hardware limitation, looking at the2420 it supports 3d accellerated graphics - where are they ;) (and yes i know all the tech sides of it now but is it worth dismissing so easily? Jan 18 11:41:33 anyway, back to the grind Jan 18 11:42:19 Yes. Jan 18 11:42:29 Because we weren't guaranteed anything going in. Jan 18 11:42:37 Nokia mentions nothing of accelerated graphics. Jan 18 11:43:08 GeneralAntilles: so you think Nokia is going to support OpenGL in the N900 (or whatever the name is for the next model)? Jan 18 11:43:25 I don't see any reason why they wouldn't Jan 18 11:43:31 and accelerated graphics are a big selling point. Jan 18 11:43:39 Especially when they basically get it for free with the chip. Jan 18 11:44:21 well, its not in the 2420 chip Jan 18 11:44:37 The PowerVR or the support? Jan 18 11:45:05 GeneralAntilles: I though the N800/810 chip doesnt support opengl Jan 18 11:45:11 It does. Jan 18 11:45:16 See TI's website Jan 18 11:45:25 The problem lies with the LCD controller Jan 18 11:45:56 how? Jan 18 11:46:02 Assuming that there aren't issues with getting the data from the PowerVR to the controller as it's set up now (the data path may just not work that way), the LCD controller wont handle more than 15fps at 800x480 Jan 18 11:46:18 The OMAP2420's built-in controller only handles up to 640x480 Jan 18 11:46:29 So Nokia had to put in a 3rd party controller to handle 800x480 Jan 18 11:46:36 I see Jan 18 11:46:43 this 3rd party controller is connected with a very low-bandwidth serial interface. Jan 18 11:46:56 So no hardware video decoding or accelerated OpenGL for us. Jan 18 11:48:15 IMO this is something Nokia should have as a priority to solve for next device. For the rest of the hardware Im very happy Jan 18 11:48:45 There's no solving about it with the next device Jan 18 11:48:57 The OMAP3430 supports up to 1024x768 just fine. Jan 18 11:49:19 I would like see gsm chip in next device Jan 18 11:49:22 GeneralAntilles: why do you say the next device is omap3 based? Jan 18 11:49:27 GeneralAntilles: of course nokia wants to do 720p device by then :) Jan 18 11:49:30 Where else could they go? Jan 18 11:49:31 hahlo: use voip Jan 18 11:49:36 hahlo, let's hope not. Jan 18 11:49:41 They're not going for Intel Jan 18 11:49:48 and there's nowhere to move on tho OMAP2 Jan 18 11:50:04 I very much doubt they'd move to another ARM chip Jan 18 11:50:20 GeneralAntilles: that sounds great Jan 18 11:50:27 Anyway, no bottle-necking LCD controller means OpenGL ES 2.0, and hardware video decoding Jan 18 11:50:29 if the chip can support 640*480 then cant we use that for "game mode" and have a black border? Jan 18 11:50:34 720p no problem. ;) Jan 18 11:50:45 No, blooming, because it's not connected to the LCD. Jan 18 11:50:50 the Nokia with 720p and opengl is going to be amazing Jan 18 11:50:52 I have tiomap ipaQ too with gsm and wlan bt and irda Jan 18 11:51:05 GSM isn't a good fit for the internet tablets. Jan 18 11:51:06 GeneralAntilles: I mean, then once again the controller wouldn't suffice... Jan 18 11:51:26 Oh, OK, but OMAP3 can decode 720p just fine. ;) Jan 18 11:51:40 3g mobile is good for internet Jan 18 11:51:42 GeneralAntilles: but that is a design nokia policy, they dont want GSM into the tablets Jan 18 11:51:53 its not really a hardware or software problem Jan 18 11:51:56 FWI, 720p usually refers to video resolution, not screen resolution. :P Jan 18 11:52:04 hahlo, that's what I have a cellphone for. Jan 18 11:52:06 GeneralAntilles: yes, of course Jan 18 11:52:14 It is a software problem Jan 18 11:52:27 as providing support for a cellular modem is a non-trivial upgrade for maemo. Jan 18 11:52:33 but if the tablet can render 720p without a problem it means no need to transcode from a media server Jan 18 11:52:45 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but being able to show 720p without scaling puts some requirements on the screen resolution, too Jan 18 11:52:47 A cellular radio is going to shoot costs up and generally make things a lot more difficult. Jan 18 11:52:57 Right, hugolp. Jan 18 11:53:14 and they probably still want to sell a cell too to all tablet owners.. Jan 18 11:53:29 anyhow, putting a 720p capable display on a tablet might be still years away Jan 18 11:53:31 at least ipaq is cheap with gsm Jan 18 11:53:31 There are places I want to take my cellphone and places where I want to take my internet tablet. Jan 18 11:53:34 so I won't count on that yet :) Jan 18 11:54:10 fatal-: and if it's the same size physically as the current one, the benefit from it would be pretty minimal Jan 18 11:54:14 +d Jan 18 11:54:21 GeneralAntilles: correct me if Im wrong, but I suspect that nokia is developing the Maemo platform to see if its a proper platform for the main public, and developing the tablets to test before comiting more Jan 18 11:54:22 fatal, I'd be interested in it to drive a component or VGA out. Jan 18 11:54:45 The goal is to end up with a platform that's suitable for general consumption. Jan 18 11:54:50 GeneralAntilles: yes, VGA out like in the N95 would be a good idea Jan 18 11:54:56 little birds also sang that there might be gsm in next device, not sure if true Jan 18 11:55:07 Dear god let's hope not. Jan 18 11:55:17 GeneralAntilles: and iPhone succes might have open Nokia chairman eyes Jan 18 11:55:24 I'm not against a cellular modem in a maemo device once the platform gets some hardware diversification Jan 18 11:55:44 But if it comes down to my N800 or an N900 with GSM . . . Jan 18 11:55:48 I wont be buying. Jan 18 11:55:52 I would Jan 18 11:56:01 I would love to actually Jan 18 11:56:21 i would buy with gsm Jan 18 11:56:27 Yes, we know hahlo. :P Jan 18 11:56:41 I would like to see several devices under the NIT platform Jan 18 11:56:42 7awa Jan 18 11:56:49 :) Jan 18 11:56:56 3"-5" screens Jan 18 11:57:01 with/without cellular Jan 18 11:57:08 N-series, E-series, etc. Jan 18 11:57:32 GeneralAntilles: NIT platform? Jan 18 11:57:33 here are probably people who knows but they won't tell Jan 18 11:57:39 Nokia Internet Tablet Jan 18 11:57:45 ok Jan 18 11:57:48 hahlo, I HIGHLY doubt it. Jan 18 11:58:02 The platform just isn't positioned for it right now Jan 18 11:58:45 GeneralAntilles: i'm sure here are rubber Boot factory people Jan 18 11:59:12 If you want answers, go beg texrat. ;) Jan 18 12:00:26 but if they would tell us the truth they would get kick off by rubber boot Jan 18 12:02:00 GeneralAntilles: but whats the problem with Maemo suporting GSM? you where talking drivers or GUI problems? Jan 18 12:02:15 A lot of both Jan 18 12:02:21 There are many things people expect from a phone Jan 18 12:02:32 Pretty much none of them are supported by maemo at the moment. Jan 18 12:03:12 in ipaq we have gsm software called gommunicator Jan 18 12:03:26 ipaq linux Jan 18 12:04:00 is there problems with the repositories again? my N800 has been waiting for 15 minuts to finish updated and finally I had to cancel Jan 18 12:04:55 Could be Jan 18 12:04:58 working over here Jan 18 12:04:59 open gsm-drivers still missing thou Jan 18 12:05:02 apt-get update Jan 18 12:07:04 apt's timeout is so ridiculously long Jan 18 12:07:19 If I'm not getting a response in 30 seconds, it's probably not coming. Jan 18 12:07:30 Plus, it doesn't fail intelligently Jan 18 12:07:57 It'll try to fetch from repository.maemo.org for each and every instance (extras, official, free, non-free, etc.) Jan 18 12:08:27 There's gotta be a way to do it, but /etc/apt/apt.conf.d wasn't very revealing. Jan 18 12:09:01 open gsm drivers would probably be as good than are open wlan drivers Jan 18 12:10:07 hows it done in neo1973/openmoko? Jan 18 12:10:21 http://florianjensen.com/2008/01/17/aol-adopting-xmpp-aka-jabber/ Jan 18 12:11:04 I had duplicated repositories, now is working fine Jan 18 12:11:06 This our florian? Jan 18 12:11:37 thats a problem, sometimes I will install something with the install button of a web page and it will add a repository I allredy have and then the tablet wont update properly Jan 18 12:12:03 I do all of my installing through the app manager or apt Jan 18 12:12:09 the .installs aren't that great for most stuff. Jan 18 12:12:19 Good for the first few, but the dupes add up on the Extras stuff. Jan 18 12:13:53 is it that hard for the software to check if the repository is allredy there or not? Jan 18 12:14:08 No Jan 18 12:14:13 it just doesn't. Jan 18 12:14:14 GeneralAntilles: nope :) Jan 18 12:47:00 * jsmith-away wanders away... Jan 18 12:49:37 i'm trying to add some mime type on maemo, to be able to open a .py file with pygtkeditor when i double click on it, instead of selected the application in the applications list ... but i don't found any informations ... someone know where i can found documentation ? Jan 18 12:50:16 Hi Jan 18 12:50:46 Hi GNUtoN810 Jan 18 12:53:35 Hey khertan Jan 18 12:54:03 Khertan, there's a howto for that isn't there? Jan 18 13:14:01 have someone figured out how to use usb host mode on N800? Jan 18 13:14:41 chille: I found something relating to that from http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/n800usbhost Jan 18 13:14:46 in 770 you had to reflash the device with an additional --enable-usb-host-mode option Jan 18 13:15:07 Mikho: not needed on n8x0 with os2008 Jan 18 13:15:12 yeah, i have --enable-usb-host-mode ;o Jan 18 13:15:24 hmm.. okay.. Jan 18 13:15:28 nice Jan 18 13:16:04 so i just need a usb power injector and it will work? Jan 18 13:16:25 chille: I think I've heard that even that's not needed anymore.. Jan 18 13:16:38 hmm.. wtf.. well, i have to try Jan 18 13:16:38 :) Jan 18 13:16:38 but I haven't tried myself, so I don't know for sure Jan 18 13:16:39 brb Jan 18 13:16:41 N800 has a powered usb port? Jan 18 13:20:38 Yes Jan 18 13:20:40 200ma Jan 18 13:20:50 Well, 100ma Jan 18 13:20:59 OTG power Jan 18 13:21:03 yes it is Jan 18 13:21:08 damn that nice Jan 18 13:21:15 i host usb host working on my n800 :) Jan 18 13:21:26 just typ "echo host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode" as root and it will power up Jan 18 13:21:38 and "/usr/sbin/osso-usb-mass-storage-enable.sh" to get mass storage work :D Jan 18 13:22:06 pffft Jan 18 13:22:10 auto-host cable ftw Jan 18 13:22:33 ^ Jan 18 13:22:37 auto host? Jan 18 13:22:59 cable that switches the n800 to host mode without any command line tampering Jan 18 13:23:19 how do i make a usb host cable? :) Jan 18 13:23:28 cool! Jan 18 13:23:50 theres a thread on itt Jan 18 13:24:04 okay Jan 18 13:24:14 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4177&goto=newpost Jan 18 13:24:40 basically its just a mini B to female A cable where you short the 4th and 5th pin of the mini B Jan 18 13:24:44 works like hell Jan 18 13:25:17 fyi, "works like hell" would imply that it doesn't work. :P Jan 18 13:25:30 its good if the devil wants a keyboard Jan 18 13:25:30 nah hell works Jan 18 13:25:46 Cptnodegard: nice Jan 18 13:25:47 here's mine : http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q187/Cptnodegard/usb.jpg Jan 18 13:26:10 and here's another pic of your cable :p http://captain-odegard.com/n800/host.jpg Jan 18 13:26:11 tried it with 2 KB's, and 3 flash pens, all worked Jan 18 13:26:18 ugly as hell, but still nice Jan 18 13:26:29 indeed Jan 18 13:26:30 cool Jan 18 13:26:39 i should update the /n800 directory Jan 18 13:26:53 i wonder if it would be possible to make a nice looking cable Jan 18 13:27:00 sure Jan 18 13:27:04 when i did it with a standard cable, the keyboard appeared to work perfectly, but if i mashed lots of keys the power drain got too much and caused the device to screw up ;) Jan 18 13:27:12 YMMV though Jan 18 13:27:31 haha Jan 18 13:28:04 it works really well though now i am using a powered hub Jan 18 13:28:09 how do i fix a fucked up usb host btw? if i unplug my usb memory "unsafe" the usb host will stop working Jan 18 13:28:31 sounds like 100mA power is pretty low. What's the usual amount of power in usb ports? Jan 18 13:28:38 500 Jan 18 13:28:47 right Jan 18 13:28:57 100 is the wake up max Jan 18 13:30:02 damn, my 3G modem needs more than 500mA i think :( Jan 18 13:30:54 500mA is the maximum according to the usb standard afaik Jan 18 13:31:04 but that doesn't mean devices wouldn't want more.. Jan 18 13:31:15 at least I think my digi tv usb wants quite much.. Jan 18 13:31:34 usb devices are like women. they know their limts but just have to push anyway ;) Jan 18 13:33:33 kulve: yeah but my modem needs an adapter that uses two usb ports Jan 18 13:33:45 nice.. Jan 18 13:33:48 (not) Jan 18 13:33:49 kulve: but it works with only one port on my laptop Jan 18 13:34:24 lcuk_2: ;D Jan 18 13:37:45 great Jan 18 13:38:00 I have my new 4G microSD, but not a miniSD to try it :( Jan 18 13:38:01 I just needed a USB A female - A female adapter Jan 18 13:38:09 for my n810 host mode Jan 18 13:40:53 Hmmm .. Now I have all this storage for my N810 I don't know what to put on it! Jan 18 13:41:08 * vegai waits for 'porn' Jan 18 13:41:09 I didn't realize how small micro SD cards are .. Jan 18 13:41:15 me too Jan 18 13:41:17 They're like .. Tiny. Jan 18 13:41:27 lol I already got a 4GB microSD almost full Jan 18 13:41:29 and *slim* Jan 18 13:41:34 yeah they are really tiny Jan 18 13:41:49 My Micro came with a micro->mini adapter and a mini->full size SD adapter. Jan 18 13:42:02 I always beg myself not to drop em and get em lost Jan 18 13:42:16 alterego: me too Jan 18 13:42:34 I am going to steal the micro -> mini adpter from my brother, he doesn't need it Jan 18 13:42:46 Oh, actually it's a micro to full SD. Jan 18 13:42:48 Not mini. Jan 18 13:42:54 alterego: I actually put a microSD to miniSD-adapter to a SD-adapter :) Jan 18 13:42:56 But I do have a mini to full size SD Jan 18 13:44:00 hey everyone Jan 18 13:44:09 I setup my scratchbox and stuff Jan 18 13:44:30 crashanddie, good job :) Jan 18 13:44:46 when I'm under the arm env, I can af-sb-init.sh start, and the whole thing shows up in xephyr Jan 18 13:44:57 but when I'm under x86, it doesn't really go as planned Jan 18 13:45:19 I don't notice any "major" errors, there's just nothing coming up on xephyr Jan 18 13:46:21 Unusual. Jan 18 13:47:45 anyone know what I could try to figure this one out ? Jan 18 13:49:03 here is the output I get: http://slexy.org/view/s21OSZHG1j Jan 18 13:52:32 "Failed to initialize libOSSO" - that seems like a problem Jan 18 13:53:54 Has anyone played around with the camera.c example up on maemo.org in the "How to use the Camera API" tutorial noticed that the time for gst_element_link_filtered() to return is about 18 seconds out of 22 seconds total startup time? I'm trying to remove the latency, but struggling. Jan 18 13:54:36 tak: hang on, it just spat out a few more lines Jan 18 13:54:50 http://www.mail-archive.com/maemo-developers@lists.maemo.org/msg00022.html Jan 18 13:57:06 http://slexy.org/view/s2jLZhhI5H Jan 18 13:57:17 yeah Tak, I saw that, but my xephyr doesn't crash ! Jan 18 13:57:17 ! Jan 18 13:57:37 and my xephyr version is stable, afaik Jan 18 13:58:09 This is surely the epitome of win: http://www.globalsourcesdirect.com/servlet/the-3961/Dual-Band-PMP-Cell/Detail# Jan 18 13:59:27 GeneralAntilles: bleh Jan 18 13:59:51 It's the N800's fast, ugly, retarded twin. Jan 18 14:00:29 you forgot heavy Jan 18 14:00:40 and a very bad screen Jan 18 14:00:44 eww, qvga Jan 18 14:00:46 240x320 is pretty shitty Jan 18 14:00:54 yeah Jan 18 14:01:01 its the resolution on my 6680 Jan 18 14:01:13 s/fast/fat/ Jan 18 14:01:14 GeneralAntilles meant: It's the N800's fat, ugly, retarded twin. Jan 18 14:01:14 GeneralAntilles meant: It's the N800's fat, ugly, retarded twin. Jan 18 14:01:39 lol Jan 18 14:01:44 LoCusF: 6680 is 176x208.. Jan 18 14:01:50 glass: oh Jan 18 14:02:01 like most 1st/2nd ed s60's Jan 18 14:02:02 well it was the resolution of SOME phone :) Jan 18 14:02:13 s/lol/really, you shouldn't have those things activated on an IRC channel/ Jan 18 14:02:13 crashanddie meant: really, you shouldn't have those things activated on an IRC channel Jan 18 14:02:13 crashanddie meant: really, you shouldn't have those things activated on an IRC channel Jan 18 14:02:14 hey, but it's got a phone in there! Jan 18 14:02:16 yeah most new s60's tend to be 240x320 Jan 18 14:03:00 like E51 Jan 18 14:03:19 and n95's etc.. Jan 18 14:04:49 yep Jan 18 14:05:14 it's not a bad res for the size of screens they have Jan 18 14:05:50 not bad at all Jan 18 14:08:55 anybody has problems w/ the FM radio player? here I get no sound at all (nokia headset is plugged in) Jan 18 14:09:08 wwp: working here Jan 18 14:09:10 Is it muted? Jan 18 14:09:18 not muted Jan 18 14:09:19 System volume turned up? Jan 18 14:09:25 Applet volume turned up? Jan 18 14:09:32 correct output selected? Jan 18 14:09:42 yes yes yes Jan 18 14:09:44 :) Jan 18 14:10:05 anyone know how to add a lib dir in the N800? In scratchbox I edited /etc/ld.so.conf to add the extra lib directory, but that doesnt work in the N800 Jan 18 14:10:11 I've set my local station frequencies, but I don't get a simple noise sound Jan 18 14:10:34 wwp: you sure is not coming out of the headset Jan 18 14:10:44 I mean you sure the sound is not in the headsets? Jan 18 14:11:06 hugolp: I have a plug in one ear, the other close to the n810 speaker Jan 18 14:11:21 of course, sound do work (system sounds, media) Jan 18 14:12:32 wwp: well, all I can say is it works in my N800 with OS2008 Jan 18 14:12:57 n810 here Jan 18 14:13:01 (OS2008 up-to-date) Jan 18 14:13:09 too bad! Jan 18 14:13:45 n810 doesn't have fm right ? Jan 18 14:13:55 hugolp: if you unplug the headset, does the FM radio applet plays some noise or nothing at all? Jan 18 14:14:05 sKaBoy: not installed by default, but installable Jan 18 14:14:18 but does the n810 have a fm radio chip ? Jan 18 14:14:23 no Jan 18 14:14:29 ah. Jan 18 14:14:31 N810 doesn't have FM. . . . Jan 18 14:14:31 Ha Jan 18 14:14:32 :) Jan 18 14:14:41 that would be a very good point! Jan 18 14:14:46 lol Jan 18 14:14:55 back to internet radio, no problem :) Jan 18 14:15:41 there's an article here in france saying that the n810 has the GPS SIRFIII, is it true? (seeing the bad bad GPS sensibility of the n810, I doubt a lil' bit) Jan 18 14:17:14 No Jan 18 14:17:16 It's a crappy TI chip Jan 18 14:17:20 wwp: yes, if I unplug the headset the fm radio plays just noise Jan 18 14:17:26 many articles (even in English) make the same supposition, but noone could confirm Jan 18 14:17:37 wwp: N810 doesnt have fm radio Jan 18 14:17:38 Bye Jan 18 14:17:44 hugolp: ok. thanks.. anyway as the n810 has no FM capability.. Jan 18 14:17:46 wwp: youll have to do with internet radio Jan 18 14:17:56 GeneralAntilles: ah! crappy, exactly how I felt it Jan 18 14:18:01 yep Jan 18 14:18:58 I'm off Jan 18 14:18:59 bbl Jan 18 14:19:19 Hmm. Are there alternatives for taking stills other than gstreamer? Jan 18 14:19:21 so now that we have more people with N810 in their hands.. N800 -> N810 worth it for 1) the keyboard (how much faster than onscreen? annoying to move hand down/slide for it?) and 2) slightly more pocketable size versus losing storage and near-screen controls? Jan 18 14:20:06 if KDE runs as well as penguin claims, the slide keyboard might be worthwhile to me.. Jan 18 14:22:11 do the US discount codes work yet? Jan 18 14:22:53 jorgen: you're taking stills w/ gstreamer? photos? Jan 18 14:24:00 wwp: Yeah, using the example up on maemo.org. The problem i'm having is the startup time is abysmal, which is down to one function as far as I can see. It takes some 18 seconds to return, which is what i'm trying to fix. :) Jan 18 14:24:15 fysa: I havent tryed but I personally doubt the phisical N810 keyboard is any good. Too small probably, but I guess I should try it before talking Jan 18 14:25:46 jorgen: funny. to take a photograph, I wouldn't used gstreamer :). the camera program on OS2008 is OK-ish for that, and there are alternatives (like an app that stores GPS data in the picture) Jan 18 14:27:01 mgedmin: heh, I've been wondering as well Jan 18 14:28:45 wwp: I'd use that if I could, but i'm doing something quite non-trivial as i'm hacking on a project that is doing some object detection using Haar-like cascades. Jan 18 14:29:19 it doesn't even need to be "good" Jan 18 14:29:29 it just needs to be better passably faster than the onscreen Jan 18 14:29:47 hm. Jan 18 14:29:47 then I can't help Jan 18 14:29:58 the main reason for this, in my opinion, is that you gain tremendous screen real estate by not needing the onscreen thumb vkb. Jan 18 14:30:18 and suddenly a spreadsheet could be usable (now that you can see what you do as you type ..) Jan 18 14:30:55 wwp: Interesting that they've added their own camera application in 2008 though. :) Jan 18 14:31:46 fysa: hear hear Jan 18 14:33:06 have you looked at the 'motion' packages, jorgen? Jan 18 14:34:32 fysa: No, I haven't actually. I was, until a minute ago, assuming that this was a fringe subject. :) Jan 18 14:35:16 http://www.lavrsen.dk/twiki/bin/view/Motion/WebHome Jan 18 14:35:39 Motion is a program that monitors the video signal from one or more cameras and is able to detect if a significant part of the picture has changed; in other words, it can detect motion. Jan 18 14:35:49 basically, you can look for specific motion sequences and trigger scripts. Jan 18 14:36:11 I was interested in using it with a webcam on my HTPC to let me control e.g., volume by waving my hand a certain way Jan 18 14:36:27 or automatically pausing if someone is standing in front of the screen and the lights are at a certain level Jan 18 14:36:32 (that means it's projector movie time) Jan 18 14:36:54 Hmm, great. :) Jan 18 14:37:01 someone ported it to OS2007 and maybe OS2008 Jan 18 14:37:10 so I'm assuming it works with the built-in webcam, Jan 18 14:37:29 hmm. "Motion tracking (camera follow motion - special hardware required)" Jan 18 14:37:51 I'll check the code out, maybe there's something I can do with it anyway. Jan 18 14:38:01 we need a lazy-susan w/charge port for the coffee table, so I can set the device down and have it always face me ;) Jan 18 14:38:20 Are there any bar code reading apps floating about? Jan 18 14:38:46 I've just written a 2D bar code reader in MATLAB and before I turn it into Python I thought I'd enquire Jan 18 14:38:57 Where I'm reading from a webcam that is Jan 18 14:39:09 not that I've seen Jan 18 14:39:40 Im having a problem on OS2008 that I didnt have in OS2007: When I load the web browser and the N800 has been a long time idle the wireless network connection doesnt work (through it says its connected in the desktop bar). I have to reload the webpage and then it works. Anyone has the same problem? Jan 18 14:39:42 I see phones have a bar code reader app on them these days, what is this for? Jan 18 14:39:53 Its very anoying in other programs that need the network to work Jan 18 14:40:22 lardman: cause is very easy to do if the phone has a camera, and probably is usefull for someone Jan 18 14:40:39 mine stays connected, but there may be a setting in control panel -> connectivity Jan 18 14:40:41 and you know, is one feature more you can show off Jan 18 14:40:46 Reading barcodes, lardman. :P Jan 18 14:40:47 hugolp: I read you can point it at a webpage/magazine and it encodes an url, I've just never seen one in the wild Jan 18 14:40:48 jotgen: which code are you running Jan 18 14:40:56 GeneralAntilles: ;p Jan 18 14:41:17 jorgen: sorry, could you pastebin your code for gstreamer Jan 18 14:41:33 Seriously though, sounds pretty cool, if only it actually had a use (much like Bonjour IM I reckon) :) Jan 18 14:41:40 AD-N770: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora.html Jan 18 14:41:59 lardman: what? Jan 18 14:42:12 Ha, Bonjour IM might be interesting on a corporate network. Jan 18 14:42:17 hugolp: are you whating about Bonjour? Jan 18 14:42:20 hugolp: Some Finnish bus stops have some kind of bar codes on them. You can scan that using a phone and see bus stop specific time-table and if there's anything affecting that.. Jan 18 14:42:28 AD-N770: It's basically the one out of the repo: https://staging.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/tools/trunk/maemo_testing/maemo-examples/example_camera.c Jan 18 14:42:37 Dist: ah, so they do have a use. That's good :) Jan 18 14:43:24 Dist: hahaha that would be useless here in Barcelona. Buses have free schedule Jan 18 14:43:45 In the UK people often steal the bus timetable poles Jan 18 14:43:49 Ha Jan 18 14:43:56 well when there are students about anyway :) Jan 18 14:44:00 Over here, only homeless people use the buses. :P Jan 18 14:44:06 hugolp: Well, here we have GPS in some of the busses and they can be tracked from the net =) Jan 18 14:44:15 GeneralAntilles: weird... Jan 18 14:44:19 Dist: That is actually pretty cool Jan 18 14:44:23 GeneralAntilles: where is that? Jan 18 14:44:32 jorgen: you could try to simplify the pipeline, which colorspace do you need on your app? Jan 18 14:44:36 Florida, USA Jan 18 14:44:38 lardman: There was an ajax proto app somewhere, but just can't remember where :< Jan 18 14:44:44 Lynoure: ! Jan 18 14:44:48 Parking is plentiful and mostly free, everybody has a car. Jan 18 14:44:54 Dist: not much good for me though living in the UK :) Jan 18 14:44:55 fysa: the connectivity settings are set to connect automatically for wlan conections, search interval 10 minutes, and wlan idle time unlimited Jan 18 14:44:58 AD-N770: At this moment in time, the fastest possible. :) Jan 18 14:44:59 There's just no demand for strong public transportation. Jan 18 14:45:03 GeneralAntilles: let me guess, the rest are 1 person per car, stuck in traffic jams? :) Jan 18 14:45:05 GeneralAntilles: that just means oil is still too cheap over there Jan 18 14:45:11 GeneralAntilles: petrol is cheap, etc, etc. ;) Jan 18 14:45:13 Nope Jan 18 14:45:18 I wouldn't say there's no demand for public transportation Jan 18 14:45:19 Lynoure: Hey, you can be found from the most surprising places =) Jan 18 14:45:19 Traffic flows very nicely. Jan 18 14:45:29 Tak, there's no demand HERE. Jan 18 14:45:34 jorgen: is video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)UYVY, width=(int)640, height=(int)480, framerate=(fraction)8/1 fine ? Jan 18 14:45:35 * Tak in FL, USA also Jan 18 14:45:36 GeneralAntilles: and pollution grows wild Jan 18 14:45:52 not anyone else is having problems whith the wireless connection disconecting after a big time, though the network tasbar says its connected? Jan 18 14:46:01 OS2008 N800 Jan 18 14:46:13 michele_, your average sedan hardly put out anything. :P Jan 18 14:46:18 Dist: I don't think me having a N800 is very surprising :) Jan 18 14:46:23 AD-N770: Think it'll make a difference on the performance that i'm seeing from gst_element_link_filtered? Jan 18 14:46:33 catalytic converts are a highly effective piece of technology. Jan 18 14:46:35 Dist: meet irl someday again? That would be surprising... Jan 18 14:46:49 Personally, I like being able to get where I want to go in a reasonable amount of time. Jan 18 14:47:05 Lynoure: It would, I also got N810 the first week it was available here.. =) Jan 18 14:47:06 * Lynoure is permanently one wave behind in cool gadgets (cheaper that way) =) Jan 18 14:47:14 Hehe, true Jan 18 14:47:36 Dist: they tryed the gps thing here but they took it off cause it made more obvious that the buses would never get on time Jan 18 14:47:42 My GPS - WLAN mapper is getting a bit useless now that Skyhook and Google does this already :< Jan 18 14:47:49 Dist: yes, kinda drooling N810, but only getting it once I'm sure I'd use it for work Jan 18 14:48:35 jorgen: yes Jan 18 14:48:53 jorgen: you should create the appropriate pipeline to your need Jan 18 14:48:54 AD-N770: I'll give it a shot and see :) Jan 18 14:49:25 jorgen: you can remove ffmpegcolorspace if you can deal you yuv data in your app Jan 18 14:49:54 GeneralAntilles: you're in Florida also? Jan 18 14:50:09 Yessir. Jan 18 14:50:14 near Tampa perchance? Jan 18 14:50:23 St. Petersburg when I'm not at school. ;) Jan 18 14:50:28 wow Jan 18 14:50:29 jorgen: sample minimalist pipeline, gst-launch-0.10 -v v4l2src ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=640,height=480,framerate=\(fraction\)8/1 ! xvimagesink Jan 18 14:50:32 very cool. Just moved from Pass-a-grille. Jan 18 14:50:34 that's three of us in-channel Jan 18 14:50:38 Nice area. Jan 18 14:50:43 * GeneralAntilles high-fives the Floridians! Jan 18 14:50:48 Living right off the strip in Ybor now.. Jan 18 14:50:48 * Tak ^5 Jan 18 14:51:04 Lynoure: Well, it's not that different, just 200e more for physical keyboard and somewhat crappy gps.. Jan 18 14:51:09 Hehe, how is that? <_< Jan 18 14:51:10 regarding using those bar codes on phones: http://mobilecodes.nokia.com/ Jan 18 14:51:41 * GeneralAntilles still thinks of Ybor as the place one would go to experience a mugging. Jan 18 14:51:44 not bad, actually. Ghost town Sun - Weds, gets a little loud on the weekends but having everything in walking distance is nice. Wife goes to UT and the commute from St. Pete Beach was torture. Jan 18 14:51:54 AD-N770: That sounds more appropriate. Suppose I use this minimalist pipeline, what's the bearing of that on my ability to eventually hand this off to be stored as a jpeg? Jan 18 14:52:02 I can imagine. Jan 18 14:52:16 There are a couple of bad clubs -- one just shut down. Jan 18 14:52:29 hugolp: Your wireless basestation might not like some of the powersave functionality that it uses Jan 18 14:52:35 Dist: I kind of like the keyboard, though. I think it'll speed up typing significantly, making writing more acceptable. Jan 18 14:52:42 If you stay away from that block, you're fine -- and even that block isn't too rowdy until 11+ Jan 18 14:53:01 jorgen: are you planning an offline motion detection or in real time? Jan 18 14:53:05 we thought the same before we moved up.. Jan 18 14:53:10 Last time I was in Ybor was for the opening of the ATHF movie. Jan 18 14:53:14 haha Jan 18 14:53:15 Veggen: Sure, 2mm more space for the top row and I'd love it, but 200e more for that is a bit too much anyways Jan 18 14:53:38 how old are you two? (Tak, GeneralAntilles) -- not that it really matters, just curious. Jan 18 14:53:39 I'm just a little north of downtown Jan 18 14:53:40 Dist: agreed, price-wise it's a bit much. Jan 18 14:53:40 heh - I think mine was to see a band at the orpheum Jan 18 14:53:47 Vinoy area Jan 18 14:53:48 near Limey's? Jan 18 14:53:52 * GeneralAntilles is 20. Jan 18 14:53:54 I'm an old man; my knees are withered, my nose is knackered Jan 18 14:54:05 heh Jan 18 14:54:12 jorgen: I don't know if your app could be similar to my tuner tool, it perform fft on each second of audio captured on the dsppcmsrc Jan 18 14:54:14 * fysa 27 Jan 18 14:54:30 Dist: that might be the problem, specially if no one else is having this problem. What is curious is that I didnt have this problem with OS2007 Jan 18 14:55:49 jorgen: if this is a good approach for you. You could work directly with raw video data searching the difference between two video buffers Jan 18 14:56:11 This sounds a lot like it, yeah. Jan 18 14:56:23 Not totally the same, but I could use the raw data instead. Jan 18 15:00:05 also, does anybody knows if hildon gtk OS2008 has any problem loading .gif? Jan 18 15:00:26 AD-N770: Doh, not a registered user. Jan 18 15:01:18 jorgen: ok, download my src code http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/n770galaxy/IT2008/tuner-0.0.3.tar.gz Jan 18 15:01:53 jorgen: I wrote a simple gstreamer element that uses kiss_fft to perform the fft on the signal Jan 18 15:02:24 jorgen: and send a message with the pitch to the app Jan 18 15:03:23 AD-N770: Nice :) Jan 18 15:04:21 AD-N770: how long until you've ported ultrastar-ng? ;-) Jan 18 15:05:43 Tak: for me it's enough maintain nethack, I'm waiting my first daughter in 7 weeks, so very few time for games Jan 18 15:06:27 * Tak nods Jan 18 15:06:46 there'll be lots of time to code when you're rocking her to sleep at 0300... Jan 18 15:10:13 Damnit, I just can't find out what the problem is with this damned Xephyr... Jan 18 15:11:09 You're doing it incorrectly. Jan 18 15:11:30 Yeah, probably Jan 18 15:19:06 Has anyone used the Python webcam interface with os2008? Jan 18 15:19:21 * lardman is after a piece of existing code to modify Jan 18 15:23:17 http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/keepin-it-real-fake-part-cvi-n800-gets-chinafied/ Jan 18 15:26:11 heh Jan 18 15:27:09 the question is, how is the D-pad? ;) Jan 18 15:28:32 doesn't look significantly different Jan 18 15:28:59 if it ran maemo, that would be cool Jan 18 15:29:17 I doubt it does; 320x240 Jan 18 15:29:27 Cptnodegard, I beat you to it. :P Jan 18 15:29:44 lardman: I have, using pygst Jan 18 15:30:28 ah, lol. got the link from another channel Jan 18 15:30:57 morning Jan 18 15:31:01 GeneralAntilles: STILL UP? >_> Jan 18 15:31:07 GeneralAntilles: what *is* your schedule? :/ Jan 18 15:31:16 Anything I damn well want it to be, bitch! :P Jan 18 15:31:19 lol Jan 18 15:31:24 you're in the US right? Jan 18 15:31:28 EST Jan 18 15:31:53 CST here, so it's even later for you :) Jan 18 15:31:54 000 - 2358: Chat on #maemo 2358 - 2359: Eat, sleep, etc Jan 18 15:32:05 I'm in college and sleep depravation is the world's cheapest narcotic. ;) Jan 18 15:32:25 I miss my responsibility free days (christmas break) when i could keep whatever schedule i want :/ Jan 18 15:32:30 now i have an 8:30 class Jan 18 15:32:34 :( Jan 18 15:32:42 Asian Religions :/ Jan 18 15:32:49 interesting. but early. Jan 18 15:32:51 I've got 3 online-only classes this semester. Jan 18 15:32:56 heh Jan 18 15:32:58 It's amazing. Jan 18 15:33:00 What college do you go to? Jan 18 15:33:04 Florida State Jan 18 15:33:09 cool Jan 18 15:33:24 I had a math prof that loved to give 8am classes, so I had to be up at 8am every day my last three years Jan 18 15:33:29 urg, I'm writing a MATLAB course Jan 18 15:33:30 Do you have an ACM chapter there? Jan 18 15:33:35 hmm, I didn't know there was an fsu campus here Jan 18 15:33:51 lardman: scientific computing? Jan 18 15:34:11 rm_you: NDE EngDoc course Jan 18 15:34:14 [9:50am] St. Petersburg when I'm not at school. ;) Jan 18 15:34:55 lardman: ah. Jan 18 15:35:05 I wish I could get the profs here interested in maemo... Jan 18 15:35:20 Buy them all N810s. :P Jan 18 15:35:22 I know at least one of them that could bring sooo much >_> Jan 18 15:35:24 Heh Jan 18 15:35:36 I might buy one of them an n800 :P he used a Zaurus too Jan 18 15:35:40 it still sits on his desk Jan 18 15:35:55 I'll poke him about it Jan 18 15:36:04 I've got 770s to loan out for sales purposes. Jan 18 15:36:07 He does a bunch of research all the time anyway, why not something for maemo? :P Jan 18 15:36:27 He's got a Masters in CompSci and a PHD in Astrophysics >_> Jan 18 15:36:32 Fun. Jan 18 15:36:36 some people are *too* smart :/ Jan 18 15:37:01 Well, or too attached to academia. Jan 18 15:37:05 heh Jan 18 15:37:06 I keep planning to use Octave on the N8x0 for data processing, just that my files are a bit too big Jan 18 15:37:24 he's still working on a BS in mathematics >_< Jan 18 15:37:47 Well, n800 prices are coming down, so I might be able to convince him :) Jan 18 15:38:11 I wish I had started with my n800 like 6 months earlier (sometime in April of last year would have worked...) Jan 18 15:38:23 cause then I would be doing a thesis project with it :/ Jan 18 15:38:46 That'd guaranteed you a discount code. :P Jan 18 15:38:59 yeah except i'd fail my thesis Jan 18 15:39:08 cause i wouldnt ever get a device >_> Jan 18 15:39:13 rm_you: what's your project then? Jan 18 15:39:36 lardman: instead of thesis, i'm doing the generic senior capstone (senior software project) Jan 18 15:39:48 i'm a team lead for a project for some company Jan 18 15:40:02 like, all students on my team... but at least it's a real world project :) Jan 18 15:40:03 that's a useful thing to do, experience is always good Jan 18 15:40:15 yeah... Jan 18 15:40:32 Publishing a paper on A2DP encoding in a DSP would be cooler :) Jan 18 15:40:35 Well, my scratchbox development virtual machine is awesome :) Jan 18 15:40:46 rm_you: yes :) Jan 18 15:40:48 And complete for maemo4 development with both sbox and sbox2 SDK's :) Jan 18 15:41:12 lardman: i still vote that you should work on that :) Jan 18 15:41:21 lardman: because, you know... your schedule is democratic :P Jan 18 15:41:21 Package it up and stick it on the internet for us, alterego. Jan 18 15:41:43 GeneralAntilles, I'll do a public version sure :) Jan 18 15:41:43 rm_you: I'll get round to it; bit busy writing this course this week, then teaching it next week, then I should have some time Jan 18 15:41:49 rm_you, we can't expect to enforce that with the honor code, though. Jan 18 15:41:50 heh yeah Jan 18 15:41:56 More drastic measures are called for. Jan 18 15:42:41 GeneralAntilles: you never answered my question about ACM :P Jan 18 15:42:41 GeneralAntilles, I'll do releases for qemu/kvm _and_ vmware as it's easy to do both :) Jan 18 15:43:11 GeneralAntilles: do you have an ACM chapter/club there? Jan 18 15:43:12 Remind me, rm_you. Jan 18 15:43:25 Haven't looked into it. Jan 18 15:43:26 Why? Jan 18 15:44:02 GeneralAntilles: wondering if you do, if they field a programming team for the ACM regional programming competitions Jan 18 15:44:41 http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~acm/ Jan 18 15:44:43 Evidently Jan 18 15:45:01 hrm Jan 18 15:45:07 I'm the webmaster for the ACM here :P Jan 18 15:45:14 thus why all my packages are in ~acm/debs/ Jan 18 15:45:26 (the acm account has no quota! :P) Jan 18 15:45:55 I just find it interesting that you haven't looked into it :) Jan 18 15:46:01 it was one of the first things I did when I came here Jan 18 15:46:11 I'm far too lazy. Jan 18 15:46:22 Never heard of them before, though. Jan 18 15:46:31 heh Jan 18 15:46:35 * GeneralAntilles is in the gun club. Jan 18 15:46:39 lol Jan 18 15:46:51 Ah, they do Southeast Region anyway :( Jan 18 15:46:59 We're in South Central Jan 18 15:47:18 Target shooting is relaxing, programming is not. Jan 18 15:47:22 heh Jan 18 15:47:37 alterego: were there any major gotchas with sb2 ? Jan 18 15:47:40 So, you're a maemo/n800 guy, just not into compsci? :P Jan 18 15:47:50 compsci major Jan 18 15:48:04 but you don't like programming? :( Jan 18 15:48:08 that's unfortunate Jan 18 15:48:09 I like it. Jan 18 15:48:13 not every computer scientist is into acm Jan 18 15:48:15 It's just not relaxing. ;) Jan 18 15:48:22 Tak, installation no. But it's very different to using sbox 1 and you can't run the desktop in Xephyr or whatever at the moment. So software has to be tested either in sbox 1 or on a device. Jan 18 15:48:25 Tak: obviously :) Jan 18 15:48:36 I just thought most computer scientists liked programming :( Jan 18 15:48:45 Tak, oh. And you only get the target target. No i386 build target. Jan 18 15:48:46 Haven't looked into any of the extra-curricular stuff for compsci we have here. Jan 18 15:48:54 Well, i guess I know a lot of people here who don't, actually... now that I think about it :) Jan 18 15:49:00 It's neat though, it's really nice. As you can use your _own_ home directory for once :D Jan 18 15:50:26 alterego: that's ok - I never use xephyr or the x86 target ;-) Jan 18 15:50:33 GeneralAntilles: can you get one of your n00b friends to test the deb for that applet? ^_^ Jan 18 15:50:40 Heh Jan 18 15:51:40 Is it ready? Jan 18 15:51:52 Tuco800! Jan 18 15:51:53 GeneralAntilles: ready? i'm not sure :P but it's up Jan 18 15:52:11 http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight_0.5-1_armel.deb Jan 18 15:52:21 haven't tested it yet, packaged it up and went to sleep >_> Jan 18 15:52:38 I'll let you know if it bricks my device. Jan 18 15:52:38 rm_you, how is it advanced? Jan 18 15:52:46 inz: thanks again for the help with that BTW :P I left your name in there for "debianized by" :P Jan 18 15:52:51 GeneralAntilles: lol Jan 18 15:52:58 alterego: erm... some? :P Jan 18 15:53:08 alterego: it lets you pick all 127 brightness levels Jan 18 15:53:13 err, 128 Jan 18 15:53:15 Oh, that's nice. Jan 18 15:53:25 no custom kernel anymore, either Jan 18 15:53:27 Does it do fade ins and outs? :P Jan 18 15:53:30 yes Jan 18 15:53:35 still does fades Jan 18 15:53:41 not sure if that's a good thing or not Jan 18 15:53:55 Cool. Jan 18 15:54:20 It's basically transparent to the built-in applet Jan 18 15:54:37 except that the popup still looks ugly, IMO >_> no frame border Jan 18 15:54:38 aside from the mildly ugly GUI and slight slowness. Jan 18 15:54:41 rm, no prob, but please remove my name, I want nothing to do with it ;) Jan 18 15:54:46 inz: lolol Jan 18 15:55:33 inz: my code is too freaky to have your name anywhere near it? :P Jan 18 15:56:54 Appears to install fine over here. Jan 18 15:57:01 My n00bs are busy being worker bees or something. Jan 18 15:59:42 * alterego attempts to use sbox2 to compile some random application. Jan 18 16:00:10 ok Jan 18 16:00:48 so is it a real bad thing if I can't run af-sb-init.sh on the x86 version of my scratchbox of my install ? Jan 18 16:01:45 crashanddie, yes. It means something is broken. Jan 18 16:01:46 GeneralAntilles: heh ok Jan 18 16:01:56 GeneralAntilles: I guess I'll post this deb then Jan 18 16:02:02 maybe I'll start a garage project :/ Jan 18 16:02:18 rtcomm update Jan 18 16:02:25 alterego: yeah, but I've been searching for the problem for maybe like the last half day, and I need to get somewhere, instead of just losing time Jan 18 16:02:45 Well, maybe you should attempt to reinstall your targets. Jan 18 16:02:48 rm, definitely Jan 18 16:03:59 Someone here is a maemo-mapper developer? Jan 18 16:04:24 There's only one of those. Jan 18 16:05:39 There can be only one. Jan 18 16:06:42 * GeneralAntilles cuts alterego in half with a big sword. Jan 18 16:07:48 so, it is alter and ego now? Jan 18 16:08:59 "It's better to burn out than to fade away" Jan 18 16:09:04 It's actually Al Terego. Jan 18 16:09:25 Sounds dangerous. Jan 18 16:09:30 Greatest name ever. Jan 18 16:09:58 GeneralAntilles: btw, Nokia said the power on/off issue exists and is apparently software fixable ... not n00b error after all then ;) Jan 18 16:10:26 pyhimys: I know that song! :) Jan 18 16:12:04 Anyone know a good linux HTML code editor? not visual... code :/ normally I use vim, but it doesn't do the html indentation and stuff very well apparently Jan 18 16:12:37 bluefish? Jan 18 16:13:31 Will try it Jan 18 16:14:13 emacs? Jan 18 16:14:15 rm_you: Quanta Jan 18 16:15:24 Sho_: will try that too Jan 18 16:15:33 pyhimys: no. :P Jan 18 16:16:15 rm_you: heathen ;) Jan 18 16:16:32 pyhimys: i wish I had time for a religious war right now :P Jan 18 16:16:40 unfortunately, i have class in 6 minutes Jan 18 16:16:42 >_< Jan 18 16:16:50 though I'm vi convert nowadays Jan 18 16:16:55 All hail vi :P Jan 18 16:17:07 ed maybe! Jan 18 16:17:08 <_berto_> lol -> http://home.cs.tum.edu/~siegel/index.php?page=news#20080118 Jan 18 16:17:09 ooo, Quanta looks like it does what i need Jan 18 16:17:10 lol Jan 18 16:17:13 ed is the editor! Jan 18 16:20:40 Does maemo gtk have some kind of problem with some type of gifs? I have some 70x70 pixels gif image that loads on scratchbox but it doesnt in the N800 in the same program Jan 18 16:26:54 Heh, my sbox SDK is 7.3G ^_^ Jan 18 16:27:14 rm, what's wrong with vim's autoindenting of html files? Jan 18 16:27:35 The same thing that's wrong with vim! Jan 18 16:27:38 :D Jan 18 16:27:41 i.e. nothing? :P) Jan 18 16:28:39 No, that doesn't make sense. Jan 18 16:28:46 Something can't be nothing. Jan 18 16:30:15 Who said there was something wrong, I bet rm just didn't know how to use it ;) Jan 18 16:30:51 And that's suprising. Jan 18 16:31:09 Machine is starting to slow down. Jan 18 16:31:17 I think I should upgrade to a quad core machine soon. Jan 18 16:31:52 alterego: make it 8 core Jan 18 16:32:10 I don't think that'd make much difference. Jan 18 16:32:22 You're not thinking big enough. Jan 18 16:32:35 I'd rather not do that. Jan 18 16:32:52 why not? Jan 18 16:33:06 Too much brain power involved. Jan 18 16:33:23 having more cores doewn't mean it sould work the same times faster Jan 18 16:33:28 aha, your running short of brain power? ;) Jan 18 16:33:47 Parallelization is key, zoran. Jan 18 16:33:53 RapidMind? Jan 18 16:34:12 It is when I'm running several virtual machines. Jan 18 16:34:20 If I had 8 cores, I'd just have 2 of them render Pixar movies all day. Jan 18 16:34:29 Heh Jan 18 16:34:56 Maybe it'd work better if I enabled multicore support in KVM and used 2 for each machine. Jan 18 16:35:04 GeneralAntilles, try out rapidmind free toolkit to make it all working Jan 18 16:35:40 must be on the same box it was compiled Jan 18 16:36:16 Interesting .. Jan 18 16:39:44 nobody had any problem with .gif images with gtk on the N800? I have some .gif that load fine in scratchbox but they dont in the N800 Jan 18 16:40:11 the png images are loading fine, but the .gif no Jan 18 16:40:28 woo, back. class canceled <_< Jan 18 16:45:34 My profs last semester always did that with e-mails 10 minutes before it started. Jan 18 17:01:17 GeneralAntilles: yep. mine did too...>_> Jan 18 17:01:33 GeneralAntilles: but I didn't check my email right before, because I was in a hurry :) Jan 18 17:01:52 I always check the N800 just after I park. ;) Jan 18 17:02:19 GeneralAntilles: mmm... I just fixed a serious (and annoying) bug on my asian religion prof's course webpage and emailed him about how to fix it. :) Jan 18 17:02:42 I think it's been broken for like 5 years Jan 18 17:03:11 (only works in IE, unreadable text overlapping in anything else, which means Mac/Linux users are boned) Jan 18 17:03:21 I wonder what kind of karma that is worth :P Jan 18 17:03:24 Argh ... *no one* seems to know why my developer code doesn't work, or who I need to talk to in order to get it fixed. :-( Jan 18 17:03:40 korpios: i dont think anyone's developer codes work Jan 18 17:03:46 korpios: you're definately not alone Jan 18 17:03:48 rm_you: really? heh Jan 18 17:04:27 if your developers code does not work just revert to an earlier version in cvs Jan 18 17:04:34 i don't know for sure, since i dont actually have a code... but from all the spam i've been getting on the Maemodev mailing list (and what people say here), they were still broken last time i checked Jan 18 17:04:38 lcuk_2: hah ^_^ Jan 18 17:04:42 lcuk_2: lol Jan 18 17:05:02 lcuk_2: what if it NEVER worked? :P Jan 18 17:05:20 lol rm - thats just design issues Jan 18 17:05:30 :P Jan 18 17:05:35 ive heard lots of grumbles about the dev codes though and nokia need to get their selves sorted Jan 18 17:05:48 there are people wanting to help and they arent letting them Jan 18 17:06:26 rm - speaking of which - the update script from brightness app left files in the system with invalid names (becauseit replaced running files before they were closed) Jan 18 17:06:52 there was a desktop file with a filename of "[unprintable square]" Jan 18 17:07:17 * lcuk_2 deleted them after sussing how to rename things which you cannot type Jan 18 17:07:50 lcuk_2: the script in 0.4b should REMOVE the old files, and then add the new ones Jan 18 17:07:59 lcuk_2: when the .desktop file is removed, the plugin auto-unloads Jan 18 17:08:07 lcuk_2: at least, it does on my system Jan 18 17:08:46 yer i know, but it left those 2 files - the desktop and the .ko but they had no proper filenames - it took me a while to suss out what they were - i couldnt even view it from shell or scp until after i fixed the name Jan 18 17:09:21 its not important but they were deffo there Jan 18 17:09:44 lcuk_2: hrm Jan 18 17:09:50 lcuk_2: you're positive they were from my app? Jan 18 17:10:55 how's this for a garage name: Advanced Backlight Statusbar Applet Jan 18 17:11:04 yer, when i got the name sorted it was your .desktop file and the blank.ko was the same size and date as the older .ko (scp wouldnt view binary in internal editor) Jan 18 17:11:59 i just culled them but if you like ill see if i can reproduce just for academic purposes Jan 18 17:12:05 rm_you: what? you actually wrote the code before deciding the name and opening the project?! Jan 18 17:12:20 michele_: ... yes :P Jan 18 17:12:25 lol michele - isnt that the best way to code Jan 18 17:12:27 michele_: it was an accident? :P Jan 18 17:12:42 Code first, ask questions later >_> Jan 18 17:12:53 bad for large projects, but for SMAAAAAL ones, it works just fine :/ Jan 18 17:13:01 *SMAAAAAALL Jan 18 17:13:06 rm, have you made changes to it since because there is a couple of things i woul;d offer Jan 18 17:13:11 lcuk_2: go for it Jan 18 17:13:18 lcuk_2: do you have version 0.5? Jan 18 17:13:20 it's a deb now Jan 18 17:13:27 also, it looks like a popup, not a full window Jan 18 17:13:37 nope, ill grab it when im not VNCing into home machine from work later on... Jan 18 17:13:40 and it's less lag inducing Jan 18 17:13:54 i replaced a system() call with a g_spawn_async Jan 18 17:14:06 awww damn - iwas gonna say since you have loads of screen estate it would be nice to have a big button that says "dimmest" and another that says "brightest Jan 18 17:14:13 Ha Jan 18 17:14:17 so you dont have to fiddle and hit the right tiny target Jan 18 17:14:20 heh Jan 18 17:14:25 it's easy for that... Jan 18 17:14:29 lcuk_2, tap'n'drag Jan 18 17:14:35 grab the center of the bar and pull way past the edges of the bar Jan 18 17:14:46 automatically goes to the highest/lowest value Jan 18 17:14:54 Just hit it somewhere in the middle and zing it to one side or the other like you're putting the last flourish on John Hancock's signature. Jan 18 17:15:06 itap and drag needs a stylus which is tucked away - i do most i can without it and fingers are fat on skinny scrollbars Jan 18 17:15:16 i keep missing if its the same size as it was Jan 18 17:15:16 so, again... Jan 18 17:15:21 Hehe Jan 18 17:15:26 how's this for a garage name: Advanced Backlight Statusbar Applet Jan 18 17:15:32 sharpens his fingers Jan 18 17:15:49 Too mundane. :P Jan 18 17:16:27 FNF Jan 18 17:16:31 Fixing Nokia's Fail Jan 18 17:16:48 lol Jan 18 17:16:50 hrm Jan 18 17:16:59 advanced-backlight is too long for the garage url >_> Jan 18 17:17:04 does it still go to ULTRA dark (ie off) on the 810? Jan 18 17:17:09 lcuk_2: yes Jan 18 17:17:13 lcuk_2: but not on n800 Jan 18 17:17:26 off is fewer characters than "ULTRA dark" Jan 18 17:17:35 lol oh poo i keep clicking once to far and needing to open keyboard, blinding myself and cursing... Jan 18 17:17:51 lcuk_2: it also has the one step +/- buttons... Jan 18 17:18:04 Time for a setting, rm_you. Jan 18 17:18:13 yer click, click click click DAMN Jan 18 17:18:16 GeneralAntilles: ? Jan 18 17:18:20 For step 0 Jan 18 17:18:26 ah Jan 18 17:18:37 do n800 users want to be able to turn off the backlight? Jan 18 17:18:43 that's very n00b dangerous :( Jan 18 17:18:49 I thought about a checkbox... Jan 18 17:18:59 [ ] ALLOW DANGER Jan 18 17:19:06 [X] ALLOW DANGER Jan 18 17:19:07 :P Jan 18 17:19:11 Well, mostly, I was thinking for N810 users. Jan 18 17:19:13 Like lcuk_2. Jan 18 17:19:28 That should be the entire prefs dialog for every application. Jan 18 17:19:37 heh Jan 18 17:19:40 maybe in a later version Jan 18 17:19:50 so, i need a project full name, and a unix name Jan 18 17:19:57 adv-backlight works for unix name i guess... Jan 18 17:20:14 oh - i noticed something else, when its on minimum its great, when i lock device the screen BRIGHTENS Jan 18 17:20:22 Well, the project name should depend on how far you plan on taking it. Jan 18 17:20:27 :/ Jan 18 17:20:46 lcuk_2, just go to /etc/mce/mce.ini and turn off dimming for locking. Jan 18 17:21:09 GeneralAntilles: ooo, can i make it turn OFF the screen when locking, like it used to? :P Jan 18 17:21:34 .... yer GeneralAntilles, can we have that, can we, can we? Jan 18 17:21:36 /etc/mce/mce.ini answers all! Jan 18 17:21:46 (well commented, too) Jan 18 17:22:31 thanks GeneralAntilles Jan 18 17:22:46 Yessir Jan 18 17:23:04 * lcuk_2 wonders what good stuf gen has pushed out with his unlimited knowledge of the maemo platform Jan 18 17:23:16 Uh, nothing? :P Jan 18 17:23:43 My great works are beating up n00bs on ITT and shuffling paper stacks on bugzilla. Jan 18 17:24:02 i must admit, having the nokia has made like easier Jan 18 17:24:15 My creative energy has been directed at video game content creation. Jan 18 17:24:41 GeneralAntilles: ah :P neat. what kind of content? Jan 18 17:24:50 GeneralAntilles: I'm starting an MMO project with a bunch of friends this semester Jan 18 17:25:01 called NIAGRA :) Jan 18 17:25:23 Models and textures for mappers in Tremulous and models, textures, sounds and physics work for Redline. Jan 18 17:25:30 GeneralAntilles: neat. Jan 18 17:25:31 3rd-party stuff Jan 18 17:25:48 GeneralAntilles: when we get to the point where we need some models, I'll poke at you maybe :P Jan 18 17:25:48 * GeneralAntilles is a Cinema 4D wizard. Jan 18 17:26:00 Hehe, ok. Jan 18 17:26:06 Just don't ask for organics. ;) Jan 18 17:26:21 NIAGRA is going to be *awesome*, if it gets off the ground properly Jan 18 17:26:29 rm, will you still be here in about nhour Jan 18 17:26:32 starting projects with multiple people is hard :/ Jan 18 17:26:41 lcuk_2: no... class in an hour, exactly Jan 18 17:26:53 No kidding, rm_you. Jan 18 17:26:55 rm_you, lcuk_2: no, most projects on garage (and on sourceforge, etc) are first of all a name. and remain that way most of the time. Jan 18 17:27:03 * michele_ is kinda slow Jan 18 17:27:07 dang maybe ill catch you over the weekend i wanna peck your head about somefink (hopefully minor) Jan 18 17:27:36 kk Jan 18 17:27:38 michele_, i suppose if you pick the wrong name you suffer for life Jan 18 17:27:43 michele_: lol.... that's not how I roll :P Jan 18 17:27:57 anyway time for the commute home Jan 18 17:27:57 michele_: well, except for... of course... NIAGRA :P Jan 18 17:28:07 that is a name and a Trac/SVN Jan 18 17:28:11 and not so much code yet :P Jan 18 17:30:15 I want the MMO: "Reality: The Game" Jan 18 17:30:33 All simulator software rolled into one giant simulation Jan 18 17:30:38 with lots and lots of people. Jan 18 17:30:54 simple: just start "camera" :) Jan 18 17:31:57 You die in Reality, you die in real life. Jan 18 17:37:24 'nite folks Jan 18 17:45:52 GeneralAntilles: the principles behind NIAGRA are similar :P Jan 18 17:46:15 So it's a hardware bundle? Jan 18 17:46:18 Taser-neckbands? Jan 18 17:46:21 well... no Jan 18 17:46:29 all the software side of it Jan 18 17:46:36 as realistic as possible Jan 18 17:46:48 hardware plugins would be feasible :P Jan 18 17:46:52 You die and it sudo rm -rf / for you? Jan 18 17:46:56 lol Jan 18 17:47:35 actually, i was just afk for like 5 minutes having a NIAGRA developers meeting :P Jan 18 17:49:01 AGAIN: "Advanced Backlight Statusbar Applet" sound decent? Jan 18 17:49:15 It's a little utilitarian. Jan 18 17:49:18 ? Jan 18 17:49:23 so... suggestions? Jan 18 17:49:24 plus the acronym doesn't spell anything cool Jan 18 17:49:29 lol Jan 18 17:49:37 How about dropping Statusbar? Jan 18 17:49:39 and you haven't even asked what NIAGRA is :P Jan 18 17:49:52 ABA Jan 18 17:50:47 sure Jan 18 17:50:49 using that Jan 18 17:51:34 hrm, i need to be approved? :/ Jan 18 17:51:43 let the waiting begin... Jan 18 17:52:49 Usually takes a day or two. Jan 18 17:53:00 Not sure why they even bother. Jan 18 17:53:09 So many dead projects. Jan 18 17:53:31 Any garage admins on? approve my project! :P Jan 18 17:54:22 *@nokia.com Jan 18 17:54:39 "APROVE MY PROJECT PLZ" Jan 18 17:54:53 lol Jan 18 17:55:04 i doubt that would motivate them to approve me :P Jan 18 17:55:28 "APROVE MY PROJECT PLZ, OR ILL BE RLY MAD" Jan 18 17:55:40 And they answer: "O RLY" Jan 18 17:56:34 GeneralAntilles: do i have to restart anything when i change that mce.ini? Jan 18 17:56:42 Yes, everything. Jan 18 17:57:08 :/ Jan 18 17:57:21 Just reboot. :P Jan 18 17:57:40 >_< Jan 18 17:58:11 sorry, i just hate rebooting anything linux :/ Jan 18 17:58:30 GeneralAntilles: so... that SVG bootlogo works... SOMETIMES. >_> Jan 18 17:58:42 SVG? Jan 18 17:58:45 Really? Jan 18 17:58:48 I just used .png Jan 18 17:58:54 heh Jan 18 17:58:56 i just copied the file Jan 18 17:59:04 .png works 100% for me Jan 18 17:59:07 yeah Jan 18 17:59:11 err Jan 18 17:59:15 i thought his was an SVG Jan 18 17:59:18 maybe it is a png >_> Jan 18 17:59:25 either way, it only works *sometimes* Jan 18 17:59:29 but i didn't resize it like you did Jan 18 17:59:37 Resizing doesn't matter Jan 18 17:59:47 meh Jan 18 17:59:48 dunno Jan 18 17:59:54 it works *sometimes*, thats all i know Jan 18 18:00:05 By "sometimes" you don't mean shows the normal logo for 5 seconds then works normally? Jan 18 18:00:09 and it takes a while to load, still get the old nokia logo for a while... but i think thats normal Jan 18 18:00:17 It is Jan 18 18:00:19 no, sometimes it NEVER loads Jan 18 18:00:29 I'm fairly certain that's on one of the cold-flash sectors. Jan 18 18:00:32 and it just goes from old nokia to new maemo loading Jan 18 18:00:40 chelli is supposedly testing on that, so we'll know for sure soon enough. Jan 18 18:00:45 :P Jan 18 18:02:22 I suggest "I CAN HAZ PROJECT?" Jan 18 18:03:03 Go for the phishing approach Jan 18 18:03:49 "I am a deposed Nigerian prince. I have millions of dollars that I cannot access until I get my project approved for your website." Jan 18 18:17:16 lol Jan 18 18:17:22 * rm_you leaves for class Jan 18 18:18:08 grandcentral down for anybody else? Jan 18 18:18:44 i hate when stuff belonging to google goes down. Jan 18 18:19:18 this is fecked up. Jan 18 18:19:37 my free calls.. :( Jan 18 18:20:59 can someone try to access the site? http://www.grandcentral.com Jan 18 18:21:49 no response of any kind Jan 18 18:22:37 first youtube, now grandcentral. Jan 18 18:25:38 back up Jan 18 18:26:58 shit... my n810 won't boot up anymore :-( Jan 18 18:27:06 and I don't know why :-( Jan 18 18:28:04 perhaps you need a nifty usb->hacked usb-switch->serial port devkit.. Jan 18 18:28:55 yes... maybe... it would be useful in this situation... Jan 18 18:31:34 meh, my mmc card keeps going read-only Jan 18 18:32:02 b0unc3, put it into freezer for a while and retry? Jan 18 18:32:56 b0unc3, see http://blog.homac.de/?p=58 Jan 18 18:34:39 put and freezer and call me in the morning..lol Jan 18 18:34:49 is this only a n810 issue? Jan 18 18:35:12 and = in Jan 18 18:35:17 how do i use that bot Jan 18 18:35:33 and/in/s Jan 18 18:35:34 is there a .doc viewer for os2008 yet? Jan 18 18:35:41 s/and/in Jan 18 18:35:58 ok, i suck Jan 18 18:36:51 inz: it's winter here... so I can put it on balcony for 30minutes... Jan 18 18:37:15 lcuk_2: i'm here Jan 18 18:37:58 GeneralAntilles: [reading scrollback] Cinema 4D was released for the Amiga, which we can emulate in UAE. ;) Jan 18 18:38:33 I've been using since version 5. ;) Jan 18 18:38:37 http://www.intuitionbase.com/screen/newsnap2.jpg Jan 18 18:38:46 was a Lightwave guy.. Jan 18 18:38:58 Tried lightwave, didn't like it. Jan 18 18:39:19 been meaning to try Maya, but no time to get back into graphics Jan 18 18:39:41 http://www.cinema4d.tv/kani/r1.jpg Jan 18 18:39:56 that looks like it would even almost be usable at our resolution ;) Jan 18 18:39:58 Ehehe Jan 18 18:40:01 Used Infini Jan 18 18:40:04 -D Jan 18 18:40:08 Before C4D Jan 18 18:40:24 cool Jan 18 18:41:40 Had a stint with Strata, too. Jan 18 18:41:42 wow rm - i wasn't ive had an emergency surgery to do involving resoldering a button on Jan 18 18:42:01 * lcuk_2 hates getting home after the normal shops have closed and refuses to pay pcworld prices ;) Jan 18 18:45:02 gen - did you ever try real3d on the amiga (before lightwave if i remember rightly) Jan 18 18:45:15 * GeneralAntilles has never used an Amiga Jan 18 18:45:33 Been a Mac guy for most the time I've been alive. Jan 18 18:45:49 lucky Jan 18 18:45:57 thats fair enough Jan 18 18:46:10 there's a good 5-6 years there between my Amiga getting outdated and Macs getting decent ;) Jan 18 18:46:15 heh Jan 18 18:46:32 ended up hopping between Windows and Linux at least twice a year until OS X.. Jan 18 18:46:34 fysa, i suffered in that gap, unfortunately i ended up having to get a pc Jan 18 18:46:42 I used a Performa 400 until 1999 Jan 18 18:46:46 * lcuk_2 still regrets taking that path Jan 18 18:46:50 heh Jan 18 18:46:56 Amiga 3000 w/40MHz 68040 accelerator ;) Jan 18 18:47:04 n800 + class + campuswide wireless = me here :P Jan 18 18:47:06 16MHz 32-bit CPU on a 16-bit bus. Jan 18 18:47:06 I think I paid $1600 for that thing. Jan 18 18:47:38 http://fysa.net/3d/jk1.jpg Jan 18 18:47:39 i had a 1200 and a 40mhz '030 Jan 18 18:47:44 http://fysa.net/3d/lion1.jpg Jan 18 18:47:51 those are almost 10 years old now. Jan 18 18:48:16 cool. started on a C64 and A500. Jan 18 18:48:17 if i had a 2.3" atapi adapter im sure i could fire up my amiga drive as well Jan 18 18:48:20 Wish I still had some of my old stuff. Jan 18 18:48:21 2.5^ Jan 18 18:48:33 245mb quantum fireball Jan 18 18:48:53 heh Jan 18 18:48:57 i bet my code would still compile Jan 18 18:49:06 I bet I can still recover names, addresses and passwords for all of my BBS users ;) Jan 18 18:49:07 infact, crap on the day it died i was compiling Jan 18 18:49:35 I replaced my 3.5" hdd for a1200 with a 2 GiB CF just last autumn Jan 18 18:49:46 when you walk down a path you remember the way the trees look :) Jan 18 18:49:59 3.5 was a hack - 2.5 fitted properly Jan 18 18:50:10 haha Jan 18 18:50:17 did you see the new Amiga PCB someone released? Jan 18 18:50:24 amiga one? Jan 18 18:50:36 http://www.armchairarcade.com/neo/node/1475 Jan 18 18:50:49 arent people trying to use amiga name as a PDA games virtual OS Jan 18 18:50:57 I hope so. Jan 18 18:51:06 The resolution and lightweight OS would be perfect for a handheld. Jan 18 18:51:45 yer, but sitting it ontop of the host machine OS (linux/pocket pc/symbian) wouldnt be so great Jan 18 18:51:56 3.5" would fit in after cutting some of the metallic shield inside. my quantum hdd was a little too big so I couldn't screw the case back in one piece. then again I also had an ata-cable coming out for a cd-drive. Jan 18 18:52:03 well, depends on what the CPU is. Jan 18 18:52:09 i would like it if they released it for the n8x0 as a standalone Jan 18 18:52:41 :O Jan 18 18:52:48 click Jan 18 18:52:53 click Jan 18 18:52:57 click Jan 18 18:53:05 * lcuk_2 is being an amiga disk drive ;) Jan 18 18:53:07 haha Jan 18 18:53:17 i forgot that that used to be the ONLY noise in my room Jan 18 18:53:21 if they gave us a Coldfire CPU or something.. Jan 18 18:53:45 even with the quitedrive thing it still did it Jan 18 18:53:58 right, need to give directions to my better half, back later Jan 18 18:54:04 later Jan 18 18:57:58 if you had a hard drive you could always leave a non-bootable floppy in the drive. that would effectively kill the clicks. Jan 18 18:58:49 i wish my brain could listen to stuff and read stuff at the same time Jan 18 19:00:01 pupnik: yep ;/ Jan 18 19:15:13 Yay, finally! Jan 18 19:15:20 * Blafasel charges his N810 Jan 18 19:15:32 ;p Jan 18 19:22:14 hello there! I just got my n810, and i m trying to switch the keyboard to the secondary language Jan 18 19:24:21 Is there a keyboard shortcut for this? Jan 18 19:24:49 Hi Jan 18 19:24:59 has everyone compiled cmake for maemo? Jan 18 19:25:10 s/everyone/anyone Jan 18 19:27:34 yatiohi, holding ctrl and pressing chr says "Keyboard layout switched" Jan 18 19:27:52 stupid question when building programs in scratchbox using autoconf what should i use as the --host ? Jan 18 19:28:31 iirc you should just omit that option Jan 18 19:28:36 i've been trying --host arm ..etc and some variations with no luck Jan 18 19:29:14 this is the error i'm getting with ./configure Jan 18 19:29:15 checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. Jan 18 19:29:15 If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'. Jan 18 19:29:56 omit that option Jan 18 19:29:56 when i build my own code, which is usually just built with a really limited makefile things work fine and arm/elf's are produced no problem, i just can't seem to figure out what to do :) Jan 18 19:30:17 that's a log from running with out any options appended to the ./configure call Jan 18 19:31:05 Yeah, great. They put a sticker right on top of my display protection.. Argh! Jan 18 19:31:17 Any hints where I can order some good new ones? Jan 18 19:31:50 the display protection is not designed for actual use, afaik Jan 18 19:32:02 s1d: look at config.log to find out exactly why it didn't work, sounds like you have broken CPU transparency setup Jan 18 19:32:41 "cannot run C compiled"... I think something like "sb-conf install -c" helped for that. I can't remember exactly what it was, it's been a long time since that happened to me. Jan 18 19:32:42 pupnik: So what#s recommended? Using a good bag only for protection? Jan 18 19:33:11 wnd: it does say "keyboard language switched" but it still shows english characters Jan 18 19:33:11 http://www.google.com/search?q=n810+%22screen+protector%22 Jan 18 19:33:15 i haven't bought one yet Jan 18 19:34:50 yatiohi, on my finnish keyboard layout it switches between finnish and danish/norweigian layouts and it's practically useless to me. I wish it switched between finnish and british. anyway if it didn't do what you wanted it to do, there are no other keyboard layout shortcuts I'm aware of. Jan 18 19:35:48 wnd: I see. Thanks :) Jan 18 19:36:39 ah zuh you were right :) Jan 18 19:37:44 That's pretty common these days. I wonder why. Jan 18 19:37:45 :P Jan 18 19:38:13 hehe Jan 18 19:54:04 I'm trying to compile maemo-mapper on my chinook-sdk, but "./configure" is returning a error "Install libgdbm-dev". But this lib is not ins chinook repositories. Where can I find it? Jan 18 19:54:55 uff... my n810 won't boot... damn... Jan 18 20:00:07 word zuh transparency and ./configure are working 100% now :) thanks for the tip Jan 18 20:07:27 someone know where can I find libgdbm-dev for chinook's SDK? Jan 18 20:13:41 * jsmith wanders away... Jan 18 20:14:04 by jsmith Jan 18 20:14:16 bye that is Jan 18 20:18:01 hello folks, I'm trying to build maemopad+, having some trouble finding some dev library packages. hildon-fm for one, ossohelp, hildon-libs... which repo do they live in? Jan 18 20:21:18 I loosely inserted the SD card, it disconnected while in use and now the device will just keep rebooting Jan 18 20:21:28 great, isn't it? Jan 18 20:21:41 * michele_ hopes reflashing fixes it... Jan 18 20:22:32 michele_, thats not good, i hope it works as well Jan 18 20:22:45 * lcuk_2 wishes you never had to reflash ever Jan 18 20:23:22 * michele_ too Jan 18 20:23:44 will you lose much? Jan 18 20:23:56 not a problem Jan 18 20:23:57 (as in, do you have stuff installed from debs Jan 18 20:24:15 * lcuk_2 hates having to refind them.. Jan 18 20:24:21 yes, but the device itself is much more valuable Jan 18 20:24:32 good point Jan 18 20:24:50 best cross your fingers toes headphones and anything else Jan 18 20:25:16 Jon: those are 2007 libs.. Jan 18 20:25:28 rebooting Jan 18 20:25:59 phew Jan 18 20:26:05 * michele_ does a little dance Jan 18 20:26:42 glad it worked for you Jan 18 20:27:17 the packages installed from repos can be restored (if one has remembered to do backups..) Jan 18 20:27:36 as I said, that's not a problem :) Jan 18 20:27:57 it's not like the thing has thousands of packages... Jan 18 20:28:19 then you aren't trying hard enough :P Jan 18 20:28:45 you're not a proper linux user until you have at least 17 media players Jan 18 20:29:01 or you start your own Jan 18 20:29:09 (which I might do) Jan 18 20:29:09 PMSL yer Jan 18 20:29:24 * lcuk_2 has 3 - is still a pipsqueek Jan 18 20:30:31 I think the included one would be fine if it had covers and finger scrolling instead of that lame scrollbar Jan 18 20:30:56 that scrollbar is the only one i can nearly use with my finger Jan 18 20:31:03 the others around are too thing Jan 18 20:31:05 -g Jan 18 20:31:50 michele_: would you use GStreamer? Jan 18 20:31:56 felipec: yes Jan 18 20:32:58 michele_: if you do, and plan to do something lightweight then count me in ;) Jan 18 20:33:35 felipec: I'd like just plain gtk widgets and a library browser Jan 18 20:33:43 nothing fancy Jan 18 20:33:45 kilikali needs a new UI :) Jan 18 20:33:54 what's that? Jan 18 20:34:00 simple media player Jan 18 20:34:03 with ugly UI Jan 18 20:34:15 but the gstreamer side of it should work pretty well Jan 18 20:34:23 I think it's the only one I haven't seen yet... Jan 18 20:34:26 link? Jan 18 20:34:27 so... what's the best language to develop a commercial application for maemo in? Jan 18 20:34:37 c Jan 18 20:34:49 "the best language" is almost never a reasonable question to ask, unless you have a specific use in mind Jan 18 20:34:51 michele_: http://garage.maemo.org/projects/kilikali/ Jan 18 20:34:51 ick. no OOP. is C++ the next best choice? Jan 18 20:35:09 and, as you may or may not be aware, OOP is a programming style, not a language feature Jan 18 20:35:14 trevarthan: vala Jan 18 20:35:15 trev, all depends on usage and deployment targets Jan 18 20:35:17 python seems to be popular nowadays Jan 18 20:35:25 and what elb said Jan 18 20:35:43 I'd prefer to use Python, but I'm concerned about piracy with Python. Jan 18 20:36:01 kulve: are you one of thedevelopers? Jan 18 20:36:08 michele_: yup Jan 18 20:36:09 piracy is no easier with Python than with C Jan 18 20:36:15 copying is copying Jan 18 20:36:29 kulve: is the project alive? last release was in march... Jan 18 20:36:45 elb: yeah, but product keys are a tiny bit harder to break in C/C++. Jan 18 20:37:00 ok last commit 5 days ago :) Jan 18 20:37:17 kulve: I'll look at it Jan 18 20:37:21 piracy in an open source system... even with an open application you are protected from people using your BRAND. let others learn from your code as you are using open code gifted from your forefathers, but protect your identity :) Jan 18 20:37:25 you can write some critical functionality in C with "product keys" to protect it, and glue it all together with Python Jan 18 20:37:28 michele_: see the svn. It's a live Jan 18 20:37:56 there's newer releases too, just not on that page. They are in the repository Jan 18 20:38:04 frankly, though, with a response like "ick. no OOP.", I question the viability of any software your company would produce Jan 18 20:38:07 "pproduct keys" and other encryption can be hidden perfectly well with open source formulas. the secret is not the formula, but the inital values Jan 18 20:38:33 elb: why? I like to write code using OOP. What's wrong with that? Jan 18 20:38:44 nothing at all Jan 18 20:38:45 michele_: points of the kilikali are: c, gstreamer, simple UI, open source, reasonably light Jan 18 20:39:05 michele_: and simple UI shouldn't mean ugly, like it is now :) Jan 18 20:39:31 lcuk_2: how? I'd like to read about it. Jan 18 20:39:31 kulve: you should try to push it to the maemo-extra repo... Jan 18 20:39:32 it has some bad usability issues though. But it's pretty stable :) Jan 18 20:39:48 I prefer to write object-oriented code, as well -- and I do almost all of it in C Jan 18 20:40:09 http://www.pgp.com/downloads/sourcecode/ Jan 18 20:40:33 http://gnupg.org/ is a better reference, for that ;-) Jan 18 20:40:53 yer it might be, but it serves the point Jan 18 20:41:35 yeah, I know what pgp is, but I don't get how I could use it for product keys in a way that can't be easily hacked if the program is python. Jan 18 20:42:08 what are you wanting to secure, the data created with your program or the program itself? Jan 18 20:42:23 The program itself, unfortunately. Jan 18 20:42:35 if its the program itself take a look around, you are in a linux environment which is built entirely from open source Jan 18 20:42:58 I need to insure that it isn't copied and installed on another device without the customer buying another license. Jan 18 20:43:19 not even the mighty microsoft can stop that Jan 18 20:43:29 sucks to be you :) Jan 18 20:43:51 yeah. they make it a lot harder than it would be if all their crap were written in python though. Jan 18 20:44:48 not really Jan 18 20:46:22 write it in C++ and sell it. nobody will think any less of you for doing it Jan 18 20:46:55 what I'm wondering is if it would affect sales if I wrote it in Python instead. Jan 18 20:46:56 * lcuk_2 wants to sell support for his brand of product when he releases it Jan 18 20:47:14 i dont care if people read/learn from the code Jan 18 20:47:25 but if they want supporting on 20 computers then they must pay Jan 18 20:47:38 i couldnt be damned (and would prefer it) if they DID install it on every single device Jan 18 20:47:50 more devices = more eyes = better exposure Jan 18 20:47:52 and if the code is propriatary nobody is allowed to use it in their stuff anyway.. Jan 18 20:48:58 I'm just not sure how valuable support would be for this product. I never use software support myself, so I don't know how much people want it. Jan 18 20:49:15 what kind of product is it Jan 18 20:49:58 kulve: ah, thanks. I'd better check I setup my scratchbox for 2008 properly, then I'll poke at the source I'm trying to ubild. Jan 18 20:50:26 * lcuk_2 hopes its not another media player ;) Jan 18 20:50:47 lcuk_2: no, not another media player. Jan 18 20:53:56 you folks ever wonder why there isn't more commercial software on the maemo platform? Jan 18 20:54:17 Does that huge GPS bundle use software keys? Jan 18 20:54:53 not really, but then again ive not looked having found what i need in OSS Jan 18 20:55:19 dunno how it does it, I use maemomapper Jan 18 20:55:25 trevarthan: do you ever wonder how many pirated copies of windows there are in the world? Jan 18 20:55:54 trevarthan: the thing is, if somebody is motivated, your protection will be hacked Jan 18 20:55:55 michele_: no. lots. I wonder how they make so much damn money when there's so much piracy thought. Jan 18 20:56:05 s/thought/though/ Jan 18 20:56:05 trevarthan meant: michele_: no. lots. I wonder how they make so much damn money when there's so much piracy though. Jan 18 20:56:06 trevarthan meant: michele_: no. lots. I wonder how they make so much damn money when there's so much piracy though. Jan 18 20:56:13 trevarthan: the trick is give people something they want to pay for Jan 18 20:56:35 SUN just paid 1 BILLION dollars for an open source program Jan 18 20:56:48 thats a hell of a lot of money when they could have just checked out the source Jan 18 20:56:48 that's crazy man Jan 18 20:56:58 what they paid for is the BRAND Jan 18 20:57:28 anything they could have made by taking the source might have been good, but it would NOT have been MySQL Jan 18 20:57:30 yeah, I don't get how companies buy open source software. I guess they're buying the right to control it? Jan 18 20:57:45 no, its all in the name Jan 18 20:57:54 mmmmm... makes sense. Jan 18 20:58:03 people know MySQL, but noone knows SUN_SQL Jan 18 20:58:59 i could take firefox and make a bazzing internet browser but it would be very very difficult for me to convince people to use it over the much more recognised Firefox Jan 18 20:59:05 well, still, I can't think of one desktop application written in python that uses a product key. what's up with that? Jan 18 20:59:15 trevarthan: Also the rights to control it, yes. MySQL Inc. owns the copyright in MySQL; contributors sign a copyright assignment agreement. Jan 18 20:59:55 trevarthan: I.e. Sun also buys the MySQL copyright, which means they can publish it under any license they desire, i.e. they can also create proprietary offerings with it Jan 18 21:00:07 trevarthan, people look at python which is entirely open source and has libraries which are entirely open source and they just think "hmmm well maybe it would be a good think to make my program open source as well" Jan 18 21:00:46 lcuk_2: I like open source, I just can't figure out how to make any money off of it with this particular application. Jan 18 21:01:04 like i said, what kind of application is it Jan 18 21:01:20 It's a GUI controller for .... things. Jan 18 21:01:32 like x10 Jan 18 21:01:41 sorta, yeah Jan 18 21:02:27 so write it and show it off and if people like it they can buy it Jan 18 21:02:40 you will gain product recognition if its good Jan 18 21:03:18 but considering that the people installing such systems are rather technical, I don't want them bypassing my product key and installing one license on multiple machines, you know? Jan 18 21:03:55 then let them install the basic version on all machines they want. if they want extra functionality let them pay for it. Jan 18 21:04:02 C or C++ would make the cost high enough that it wouldn't matter so much. Jan 18 21:04:20 But Python, my favorite, is too easily modified, I think. Jan 18 21:04:24 do you already have this software written for another device? Jan 18 21:04:34 no. planning stage only right now. Jan 18 21:05:07 hmm Jan 18 21:05:11 s/hmm/ehm/ Jan 18 21:05:11 sp3000 meant: ehm Jan 18 21:05:11 sp3000 meant: ehm Jan 18 21:05:14 hum Jan 18 21:05:19 s/hum/Tak, wtf/ Jan 18 21:05:20 sp3000 meant: Tak, wtf Jan 18 21:05:20 sp3000 meant: Tak, wtf Jan 18 21:05:36 lol @ takbot Jan 18 21:05:44 grumble Jan 18 21:05:46 C++ sucks. There, I said it. I hate C++. Jan 18 21:05:52 s/grumble/isn't one enough/ Jan 18 21:05:52 sp3000 meant: isn't one enough Jan 18 21:05:53 sp3000 meant: isn't one enough Jan 18 21:05:54 * Jon pats trevarthan on the back Jan 18 21:06:18 well, actually, one is too many, but whatever :) Jan 18 21:07:10 trev, with the right idea you can get something better than a program Jan 18 21:07:28 like what? a website? Jan 18 21:07:54 you can get a community - let your users create plugins for your controller, get recognition and let your less technical users pay for support - just like mysql/red hat etc do Jan 18 21:08:00 there is no easy way , what you need to do is implement parts of your software on the server-side Jan 18 21:08:26 yeah, unfortunately this is third party. I don't own the controller. Jan 18 21:08:59 the technical user will ALWAYS find a way round it (unless you impliment super hard server side private key encryption and use TCPA modules onboard - like the xbox..) Jan 18 21:09:37 lcuk_2: or instead of selling hardware, sell a hardware/software bundle. Jan 18 21:09:53 * lcuk_2 throws up in his mouth a little bit Jan 18 21:09:57 s/selling hardware/selling software/ Jan 18 21:09:57 trevarthan meant: lcuk_2: or instead of selling software, sell a hardware/software bundle. Jan 18 21:09:57 trevarthan meant: lcuk_2: or instead of selling software, sell a hardware/software bundle. Jan 18 21:10:24 you could do, but you have just limited your market even more Jan 18 21:10:24 for he's a jolly good fellow Jan 18 21:10:31 s/for he's a jolly good fellow/and so say all of us/ Jan 18 21:10:32 sp3000 meant: and so say all of us Jan 18 21:10:33 sp3000 meant: and so say all of us Jan 18 21:11:06 I can totally use these for a chorus Jan 18 21:11:10 anyway, i think i need to go now, ive got this super cool idea to write an x10 clone ;) Jan 18 21:11:17 sp3000: wicked Jan 18 21:11:42 hardware/software is nice yes Jan 18 21:11:45 lcuk_2: well, what if I wrote code for an inexpensive ethernet webserver device instead of desktop code for the maemo platform? Jan 18 21:11:58 lcuk_2: maemo's killer app is the browser after all. Jan 18 21:12:12 trev, something i would pay for is a proper remote control from my 810 to my computer - it can use bluetooth if it wants but it has to be configurable at both ends Jan 18 21:12:38 trevarthan: I don't really use the browser much on the device.. Jan 18 21:12:39 lcuk_2: like, using the touchscreen as a mouse? Jan 18 21:12:44 the one i use with my keyboard on computer (ps2 dongle between keyboard and comp) is dying :( Jan 18 21:12:45 I irc and watch movies.. Jan 18 21:12:50 no ive got vnc for that Jan 18 21:12:54 i mean a proper remote control Jan 18 21:12:55 maemo p2p meshing like the olpc Jan 18 21:13:10 or zune stlye but not restricted music trading Jan 18 21:13:23 volume playback channels etc Jan 18 21:13:38 * lcuk_2 cant be arsed writing the code Jan 18 21:13:56 i bought one for my pocket LOOX which did the job perfectly Jan 18 21:14:16 lcuk_2: isn't there an lirc frontend for maemo? Jan 18 21:14:21 (apart from the fact the IR sensor was on the side :S) Jan 18 21:14:41 s/sensor/emiter/ Jan 18 21:14:42 lcuk_2 meant: (apart from the fact the IR emiter was on the side :S) Jan 18 21:14:42 lcuk_2 meant: (apart from the fact the IR emiter was on the side :S) Jan 18 21:14:46 :O it works Jan 18 21:14:57 evne tho i cant spell Jan 18 21:15:01 or type Jan 18 21:15:04 * lcuk_2 gives up Jan 18 21:15:46 lcuk_2: like this? https://garage.maemo.org/projects/irreco/ Jan 18 21:15:56 trev, there would be but there is no IR port on the n8x0 Jan 18 21:16:00 sorry, better link: http://irreco.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 18 21:16:12 no, it uses tcp/ip. You just install lirc on the other pc. Jan 18 21:16:38 which then uses its IR emitter to change the channel? Jan 18 21:16:47 nah. uses the API Jan 18 21:17:13 * michele_ curses application manager Jan 18 21:17:18 if you need to use an IR transmitter you can, but if you're controlling mythtv or some other lirc aware app you don't need it. Jan 18 21:17:58 thats where it falls flat on its face, im just using media player classic on windows lol Jan 18 21:18:15 it worked really nicely until the IR sensor started to go wonky Jan 18 21:18:43 michele_, have you got most stuff back? or are you missing repos Jan 18 21:18:54 lcuk_2: http://winlirc.sourceforge.net/ Jan 18 21:19:17 no clue how current that is though. Jan 18 21:19:21 might not do tcp/ip. Jan 18 21:19:38 WinLIRC requires a very simple IR detector connected to a serial port. Jan 18 21:19:58 yeah, dunno if that's omission or fact. Jan 18 21:20:17 doesnt sound very current - i am pleased there are versions around but wasnt gonna go to loads of trouble - for my use i might just use vnc and the 810 keyboard (which would work nicely) Jan 18 21:20:47 lcuk_2: it has problems connecting to the extras repo Jan 18 21:21:02 Hmm.. I have US/Canada maps in "Maps". Can I switch them to Europe/Germany somehow? Jan 18 21:21:17 Ah.. Jan 18 21:21:21 Nvm Jan 18 21:21:27 michele_, when did you last refresh before you reflashed - ie was it working very very recently Jan 18 21:21:39 dunno Jan 18 21:22:22 is there a compiled alternative to C++ on maemo? I despise C++. Jan 18 21:22:39 yer - c Jan 18 21:22:39 Or.... would a python code obfuscator give sufficient protection? Jan 18 21:22:39 vala Jan 18 21:22:48 trevarthan: check out vala Jan 18 21:22:52 you can use C++ on maemo? Jan 18 21:22:56 michele_: how much do people actually use vala? Jan 18 21:23:12 it's a C# inspired language that compiles back to C and then to native Jan 18 21:23:14 vegai: think so. saw stuff about gtkmm.... Jan 18 21:23:28 trevarthan: seems like a rather silly thing to do when there's C Jan 18 21:23:33 I'd love to use vala where C# is no option Jan 18 21:23:44 trevarthan: not much, as it is specifically targeted to gnome/gtk/maemo (gobject stuff) Jan 18 21:24:18 * Tak using vala right now Jan 18 21:24:25 D might be fun Jan 18 21:24:25 michele_: is it limited? i.e. can I do network stuff from it? Jan 18 21:24:28 or Haskell :-P Jan 18 21:24:49 not looking for fun. if I wanted fun I'd use OCaml. :) Jan 18 21:24:54 iGo has been discontinued o_0 sad day Jan 18 21:24:55 trevarthan: it cando what C can do Jan 18 21:25:07 OMG. ocaml... Jan 18 21:25:27 yeah, I used to write a lot of ocaml code until I got tired of the parens. Jan 18 21:25:33 god those parens are annoying. Jan 18 21:25:46 trev, you might look at mono - im sure i read somewhere its ported Jan 18 21:26:02 whether or not you will get more than hello world im not sure Jan 18 21:26:17 it was for sure, when 770 came out, I don't know if it is maintained Jan 18 21:26:26 Hi! Jan 18 21:26:37 see, eijk is written in mono Jan 18 21:26:44 Any modest folks here? Jan 18 21:26:51 ? Jan 18 21:27:00 lol eijk you missed the line above Jan 18 21:27:05 whether or not you will get more than hello world im not sure Jan 18 21:27:10 then you said hi! Jan 18 21:27:28 ;-) 'k Jan 18 21:27:29 I like mono, but isn't there this huge stigma associated with it and it's microsoft IP roots? Jan 18 21:28:13 trevarthan: mono's bytecode, CIL, is as much as decompilable as python Jan 18 21:29:08 trevarthan: vala is still in development, however people are starting to use it for real apps for some time now and the more people use it, the quicker it will be fully stable Jan 18 21:29:21 michele_: mmmm.... they use it a lot on win32 though. so maybe it's not that bad? Jan 18 21:29:26 trevarthan: 0.1.6 will be released shortly, give it a try if you like Jan 18 21:29:49 im gonna vanish anyways, back later Jan 18 21:29:53 I honestly do not understand the point behind vala :P Jan 18 21:30:10 bye lcuk_2. thanks for the chat. Jan 18 21:30:39 Tama^2: I think vala is mono for people scared of mono because of the IP issues. Jan 18 21:31:01 * sp3000 likes the characterization of not implementing support for a particular rfc "broken, and in violation of the applicable standards" Jan 18 21:31:02 I see Jan 18 21:31:13 yay hyperbole Jan 18 21:31:15 trevarthan: no, I don't think that a lot of people are using vala due to that Jan 18 21:31:26 the development certainly haven't been started due to that Jan 18 21:31:38 what's the point then, when there's mono? Jan 18 21:31:45 an python Jan 18 21:31:47 *and Jan 18 21:31:51 yeah Jan 18 21:32:03 mono is a different platform, it duplicates a lot of the gnome platform Jan 18 21:32:16 vala is c# for the gnome platform, without an additional runtime Jan 18 21:32:16 vala compiles to native, mono to bytecode Jan 18 21:32:39 does vala have a modern GC? Jan 18 21:33:05 not that I think python's GC is particularly modern, but it's better than C++. Jan 18 21:33:10 it directly uses gobject, so it uses the available reference counting mechanism Jan 18 21:33:31 so more or less like integrated smart pointers Jan 18 21:33:43 I hate reference counting. so you get problems with circular object references, right? Jan 18 21:34:07 I still think picking an existing language makes more sense Jan 18 21:34:22 me too Jan 18 21:34:37 sounds like vala might go away at some point or something Jan 18 21:34:44 * sp3000 waits for cobol to rear its head Jan 18 21:35:00 i received my n810 do i need to make any upgrade? Jan 18 21:35:24 trevarthan: everything might go away at some point or something ;) Jan 18 21:35:29 BuSyAnToS: probably worthwhile to flash the latest firmware, yeah. Jan 18 21:35:48 ok :) Jan 18 21:35:51 juergbi: except, C, right? :) blech. Jan 18 21:35:53 trevarthan: if gobject 3 switches to different kind of garbage collection, vala will, too, so it's just very near to the glib runtime, it uses Jan 18 21:35:53 required, if you want skype Jan 18 21:36:06 yes i want it Jan 18 21:36:21 i see it somehow faster than the 770 i had Jan 18 21:36:42 BuSyAnToS: yeah, faster CPU and more memory. Jan 18 21:36:44 yes, a faster processor and more memory can cause that Jan 18 21:36:57 unless you install vista... Jan 18 21:37:00 xD Jan 18 21:38:09 trevarthan: regarding circular references: yes, that's an issue, of course, the same as in C. you can declare weak references to avoid the issue, just like in C, too Jan 18 21:38:28 hi everyone. I am using n800 (flashed to 2008 image) with external gps. if I use maemo-mapper it can read the gps. but i want to do it from the shell, however i can not find rfcomm like tool. can someone help me please :) Jan 18 21:47:24 Hmpf. The map download always fails/aborts.. Is there a hidden "Don't kill the wifi connection" setting? Jan 18 21:49:37 Blafasel: do you have enough space? I'm not sure if it's very clear about that Jan 18 21:49:46 Blafasel: I just fixed it right now Jan 18 21:49:50 Blafasel: open the terminal Jan 18 21:49:55 and write this: Jan 18 21:50:00 gconftool-2 --set --type int '/system/osso/connectivity/IAP/wlan_sleep_timeout' '1000' Jan 18 21:50:25 michele_: Thanks. Any docs on that? 1000 .. seconds? Or what? Jan 18 21:50:30 for reference: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/18057#18057 Jan 18 21:50:31 Blafasel: iirc wifi doesn't have disconnect timeout enabled by default Jan 18 21:50:40 And why does it go to sleep at all if there's traffic? Jan 18 21:51:14 Maybe a product key isn't necessary at all on maemo. Maybe the single click install method is enough. Jan 18 21:51:27 michele_: doesn't that thing have ui these days? Jan 18 21:51:50 that's network-specific so you don't affect battery life on better APs? Jan 18 21:51:59 nah, still need activation step, I think. Jan 18 21:52:24 heloo Jan 18 21:52:32 (apparently you have to step through the silly wizard-like thing in the network settings before you get to the advanced button) Jan 18 21:53:20 Is there a way n800 to boot direktly to KDE Jan 18 21:53:55 I don't want to boot first in hildon desktop Jan 18 21:54:52 Does this stuff (gconftool ...) need a restart or anything? Jan 18 21:55:28 Blafasel: I believe it says in the linked thread Jan 18 21:55:50 Blafasel: you just have to reconnect Jan 18 21:56:04 but I'd kinda prefer the ui method due to the abovementioned reason Jan 18 21:56:10 sp3000: yes, it should depend on your AP Jan 18 21:56:51 sorry if this is completely off topci but does anyone have any ideas or hunches on whether Nokia are likely to release a new Internet Tablet at CeBit this year to replace the N800/810? Jan 18 21:57:42 Re Jan 18 21:59:11 jackster: they just announced the n810, so it's very unlikely, imo. Jan 18 22:00:00 N-eight-eleven! Jan 18 22:00:01 thanks kulve Jan 18 22:00:14 there has been talk about n8x0 with wimax but that's not a replacement Jan 18 22:00:20 n810 is a n800 "upgrade" (downgrade is more correct but anyways) so its not impossible that they're releaseing a next gen table, but prob later this year if so Jan 18 22:00:47 Cptnodegard: I see n810 as a upgrade to n800 :) Jan 18 22:00:48 I just thought that since the N810 wasn't anything groundbreaking compared to the N800 maybe they would release the proper next generation at CeBIT Jan 18 22:01:12 only an upgrade if you can stand 10GB only :p Jan 18 22:01:23 I can stand with 2+4 Jan 18 22:01:32 ...or if you enjoy like, say, maybe, a KEYBOARD... Jan 18 22:01:40 im working on getting 24 xD Jan 18 22:01:41 I do enjoy that :) Jan 18 22:02:19 the n810 KB is too small to be usful IMO. only way i can type fast is a real KB Jan 18 22:02:26 not worth the 2x price Jan 18 22:02:38 ya. the price difference is seriously unjustified Jan 18 22:02:50 it's maybe a $100 upgrade Jan 18 22:02:58 so you guys think the N800 would be a better buy? Jan 18 22:03:06 Is there a way to boot direktly to KDE Jan 18 22:03:07 jackster; if money is an issue, yes.. probably Jan 18 22:03:08 i use my n800 at school, so i have a bag that will gladly fit a usb of bt keyboard anyways Jan 18 22:03:08 ? Jan 18 22:03:24 jackster, depends on your use... Jan 18 22:03:57 jackster, if price and storage is most important, n800. if a KB or internal GPS is more important, n810 Jan 18 22:04:44 n800 + bt kb + bt gps is more useful and stable (in case of the gps) than the 810, but more to drag around Jan 18 22:05:22 Cptnodegard: really I'd quite like to use it to learn Python, play ScummVM and maybe use a bit of Google Docs; with a chance I may end up replacing my iPod with it Jan 18 22:06:00 you should def replace your ipod as its a shit mp3 player, but n8x0 sound aweful with headphones Jan 18 22:06:20 really? Jan 18 22:06:27 yes Jan 18 22:06:36 which headphones? Jan 18 22:06:47 * sp3000 hasn't really been paying attention to that though Jan 18 22:06:54 some people like to believe different, but i a/b'ed it with my cowon u2 mp3 player and thats the last time i put headphones in the n800 xD Jan 18 22:07:21 various ones, sennheiser px100, beyerdynamic dt231, grado ms1 Jan 18 22:07:47 come on, the ipod is not awful Jan 18 22:07:52 ok, so cowon has better sound than ipods and whatnot that people might use, but that doesnt mean the n800 sounds good Jan 18 22:07:57 yes it is Jan 18 22:08:04 the fact that you can't copy files to ipod is awful Jan 18 22:08:12 *copy files and play them Jan 18 22:08:41 Can anybody to help me whay to install KDE to boot direktly from mmc baypass hildon desktop Jan 18 22:08:58 the n800's internal speaker is awesome though, compared to i.e the PSP's speaker Jan 18 22:09:07 GEORGE_BG: search internettablettalk.com for KDE Jan 18 22:09:07 actually the main reason I've decided to go for a maemo tablet is after Jobs's Macworld keynote I'm just mega pissed off at how closed Apple's iPod Touch/iPhone is and I'd like somethign more open Jan 18 22:09:22 you have a touch? Jan 18 22:09:36 yep, one of the early ones with the bad quality screens Jan 18 22:09:59 pupnik i want KDE to boot direktly Jan 18 22:10:10 touch is a nice novelty.... but i really cant stand h264 as its shit slow to convert movies, the browser should be packed with the song "zoom zoom zoom" Jan 18 22:10:19 lol Jan 18 22:10:28 there was a info how to boot from extra menu on hildon desktop Jan 18 22:11:07 movie support is good on the n800, with mplayer. with transmission you can download movies directly, and even if its sluggish at times, playing it back without conversion is possible Jan 18 22:11:26 when i say n800 i mean both devices of course as they are alike xD Jan 18 22:11:35 ah yes one more question, how likely is it that the next version of ITOS will be released for the N800? Jan 18 22:11:52 OS2008 is just out Jan 18 22:11:58 so prob not until november :p Jan 18 22:12:00 *december Jan 18 22:12:14 Good to hear :D Jan 18 22:12:15 my suggestion is go with a n8x0, then buy a small mp3 player on the side Jan 18 22:12:38 cool, thanks Cptnodegard :-) Jan 18 22:12:44 if youre not 100% set to carry as little as possible Jan 18 22:12:47 np ^^ Jan 18 22:13:48 I'm not too bothered about carrying loads, I have plenty of pockets :) Jan 18 22:14:16 jackster, if youre in the US, n800 + iGo bt KB + 16GB SDHC + 1, 2 or 4GB sansa clip is a nice combo that will come out cheaper than the n810 by itself Jan 18 22:14:29 i like cheap mp3 players. one doesn't have to worry about them breaking Jan 18 22:14:47 Cptnodegard: I'm in the UK, and what's a sansa clip? Jan 18 22:14:50 240+75+50+30-60 usd for that combo... Jan 18 22:14:54 ah Jan 18 22:15:03 sansa clip is the best cheap mp3 player out there ATM Jan 18 22:15:22 hmm Jan 18 22:15:22 ah I see Jan 18 22:15:24 lets see Jan 18 22:15:49 iGo is 30 GBP shipped or so from mymemory.co.uk Jan 18 22:15:54 hmm. Which package should I install on my n810 to get gst-launch* Jan 18 22:16:09 n800 is 170 GBP from play.com Jan 18 22:16:38 sansa clip is 25-40 GBP from play.com Jan 18 22:16:45 memory card of your choice Jan 18 22:17:27 still under the 290 GBP for 810 Jan 18 22:17:27 but as i said, all about how much you are willing to carry :D Jan 18 22:17:35 great, thanks Cptnodegard, I'll probably just go for the N800 just now and an SD card, I'll see how it goes from there Jan 18 22:17:45 good idea Jan 18 22:17:53 maybe throw in a case Jan 18 22:18:03 ebay has nice leather cases for 25 USD shipped or so Jan 18 22:18:39 do you think a case would be necessary? Jan 18 22:18:43 n810 is *sweet* Jan 18 22:19:14 yeah, or at least i prefer using one Jan 18 22:19:44 http://captain-odegard.com/n800/n800cseandheadphones.jpg the case i have Jan 18 22:19:46 * jsmith loves his n810 Jan 18 22:20:22 * michele_ too Jan 18 22:21:02 OK I think what I'll do is go for an N800 with an SD card, *maybe* a case and then see how it goes Jan 18 22:21:10 ^^ Jan 18 22:21:42 never really played with the N8*0, so no point in buying the £100+ more expensive one then finding out I don't like it Jan 18 22:21:57 good point Jan 18 22:21:57 wb alterego - thanks for the new ruby builds Jan 18 22:22:00 although I doubt I won't like :P Jan 18 22:22:10 pupnik, they're not new :P Jan 18 22:22:14 But the website is back. Jan 18 22:22:16 the devices are identical except for storage, kb and gps Jan 18 22:22:29 I'm moving from that crap VPS to a couple of dedicated servers tomorrow. Jan 18 22:22:42 Gonna be a mamoth task ^_^ But hopefully enjoyable :) Jan 18 22:23:12 Damn, failed to dl the map again. Jan 18 22:23:27 ruby1.8-maemo_0.3.0-1_maemo4_armel.deb <- that's old? Jan 18 22:23:40 pupnik, yes. We're on 0.4.0 now. Jan 18 22:24:02 ok. have you seen knots 0.2? Jan 18 22:24:04 great, you've been mega helpful Cptnodegard Jan 18 22:24:12 np :D Jan 18 22:24:23 pupnik, no. But I've been talking to solmumaha quite a bit about it :) Jan 18 22:24:35 it's buttah Jan 18 22:25:10 Yeah, I'll be releasing 0.4.1 anyday now .. Jan 18 22:25:31 With fixed LibConIc and a nice desktop plugin infrastructure. Jan 18 22:25:40 Been working on test suites the past few evenings. Jan 18 22:25:58 I Jan 18 22:27:31 i don't know sh*t about ruby, but just looking at sol's knots code makes me love it Jan 18 22:28:21 seems pretty fast too, with startup/loadtimes and the screen updates when scrolling Jan 18 22:28:36 Startup is hindered mostly by ruby-gtk. Jan 18 22:28:45 what's knots? Jan 18 22:29:06 I've been working on Ruby1.9-maemo as well recently. So as soon as that becomes properly stable I'll release it. Jan 18 22:29:24 _Hopefully_ I wont suffer the python-maemo problem of a major release update ;) Jan 18 22:29:26 michele_: lets me watch all my video on the pc on the tablets, transcoded streaming Jan 18 22:29:39 *stored on the pc Jan 18 22:29:59 link? Jan 18 22:30:25 ah it's work in progress. hopefully next week there'll be a usable alpha of knots 0.2 Jan 18 22:30:40 oh ok Jan 18 22:30:57 I think he's waiting for me to give him a fixed LibConIc ;) Jan 18 22:31:50 * pupnik sics http://pupnik.de/arbeiten.gif on alterego Jan 18 22:31:58 (arbeiten! = work!) Jan 18 22:32:11 :D Jan 18 22:32:42 Hah, is that solmumaha ? :D Jan 18 22:32:46 He's pretty hot for a man. Jan 18 22:33:23 im gonna goof off another 22 minutes and then get to work here Jan 18 22:34:53 How can i boot directly into KDE without first having to boot Hildon and selecting it from the menu? That way i could dual boot into either Hildon (boot from flash) or KDE (boot from mmc) Jan 18 22:34:55 I'm at a bit of a loose end. Think I might work on a public release of the maemo SDK and maemo-sdk+ images for qemu and VMWare .. Jan 18 22:34:57 ? Jan 18 22:35:27 Or I could continue gedit .. Jan 18 22:35:31 Or my gnome-desktop port .. Jan 18 22:35:36 Oh, the choices .. Jan 18 22:36:11 can someone help me Jan 18 22:36:49 GEORGE_BG: if penguinbait is around he might know an answer Jan 18 22:37:47 unfortunatly hi is not here Jan 18 22:39:18 You'd need to edit the init.d scripts to not start hildon desktop and run kde instead. Jan 18 22:40:57 <||cw> haha http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/18/keepin-it-real-fake-part-cvi-n800-gets-chinafied/ Jan 18 22:41:02 alterego yes i need in to Jan 18 22:41:31 do you have idea how to make it Jan 18 22:42:08 Sure, you edit a script or more in init.d :P Jan 18 22:43:12 Do you find some info about script Jan 18 22:43:21 Erm .. Jan 18 22:43:25 /etc/init.d ? Jan 18 22:44:22 <|R> wow, store.nokia@nokia.ca doesn't even work! Jan 18 22:44:43 i haven'd find someone who did it Jan 18 22:45:24 i think this is the way to have more RAM in KDE Jan 18 22:45:25 GEORGE_BG, you probably want to remove '/etc/init.d/S51hildon-desktop' and replace it with a startup script that runs KDE. Jan 18 22:45:54 Infact, if you just move and edit that file to S51kde-startup or something .. Jan 18 22:47:00 But it's really up to you. I've not used KDE on my tablet and don't really plan to. Jan 18 22:47:32 whay ? Jan 18 22:47:54 maemo is (apparantly) designed for tablets, kde isnt. Jan 18 22:47:56 Because it's pointless in my opinion. Jan 18 22:48:19 I'd rather spend my time making maemo better than wasting my time using an interface I don't really even like. Jan 18 22:49:00 I like kde on a laptop, but very well said alterego Jan 18 22:49:18 * lcuk_2 wants a laft handed hildon desktop Jan 18 22:49:23 :) Jan 18 22:49:31 ^left Jan 18 22:49:31 and on N800/N810, based on screenshots, KDE seems a bit unwieldy Jan 18 22:49:45 lcuk_2, something like that would be good. And should have been in there from that start ;) Jan 18 22:49:47 its great with a magnifying glass and pin as stylus Jan 18 22:49:54 may be you are right but i whant to try it Jan 18 22:49:59 alter, full rotation should have been Jan 18 22:50:23 Well, rotation is a bit trickier. As Hildon/Matchbox isn't built with that in mind. Jan 18 22:50:25 george, ive read its easier getting the 800s dual booting than an 810 Jan 18 22:50:42 lcuk_2, no harder or easier. It's pretty much identical. Jan 18 22:50:53 but hildon could very easily be with just a few resizable elements that you should be able to say "go here, expand there" Jan 18 22:51:09 lcuk_2, sure. but that's not how it works :P Jan 18 22:51:14 alterego can you help how to burn CD's on my tablet i have usb cd-rw Jan 18 22:51:33 i know that and have seen the way the hildon desktop theming appears to work (its very static) Jan 18 22:51:38 GEORGE_BG, you'd need to compile the appropriate kernel modules and cd burning utilities. Jan 18 22:51:51 Yes, static and pretty complex IMO Jan 18 22:52:34 Well, I don't think I'd use rotation for anything anyway .. Except maybe games. Which can do that regardless. Jan 18 22:52:40 yer - but as with anything in linux another way will come along, and hopefully it will retain compatability with hildon rather than just reinvent Jan 18 22:53:04 alter, i read a lot on my device and would prefer web and whole interface to be portrait Jan 18 22:53:40 Well, Hildon is mostly fine. It's the desktop and matchbox that are the problem. And matchbox is only a problem because of hildon desktop. Matchbox could easily rotate and does on many devices (the Palm Linux stuff) Jan 18 22:54:04 It's purely because Nokia have disabled rotation and that hildon-desktop is created in such a way that it's just not practical. Jan 18 22:54:17 yer i know Jan 18 22:55:10 reminds me, i posted something earlier on today about a class action suit from HTC phone users who found out their device with chipset X(having 3d features) isnt using its features... Jan 18 22:55:15 have you seen anything about this Jan 18 22:55:35 No. Jan 18 22:55:45 http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/01/17/htc-owners-arms-graphics Jan 18 22:55:51 But that's like me sueing linux for not using my DRM hardware :P Jan 18 22:55:59 certainly rings certain bells in my mind Jan 18 22:56:02 lcuk_2: weird... it's not like people could be forced to use hw to its full extent... Jan 18 22:56:13 Are someone have problems usb flash some flash-a i can't read thay are formated in FAT mu say-s that "unable to connect, no file system available" Jan 18 22:56:18 Yeah, it's really dumb. Jan 18 22:58:10 alterego do you have this problem Jan 18 22:58:18 No Jan 18 22:58:21 whith some flash memory Jan 18 22:58:35 Lynoure, people see the nokia n series phones with the same CPU chipset running 3d graphics. why cant i do it on a different nokia device that i paid more for? Jan 18 22:58:46 its a valid question Jan 18 22:59:23 Sure, it's a "valid" question. But it doesn't change a damn thing. Jan 18 22:59:41 lcuk_2: it's a question... another question was that was this not in the stats they saw when buying the device? Jan 18 22:59:46 You don't have 3D acceleration on the tablets because the drivers are closed source and Nokia don't want to buy them. Jan 18 23:00:01 You get what you paid for. Jan 18 23:00:10 Anything else that may or may not happen in the future is a bonus .. Jan 18 23:00:30 if you don't ask the question you wont find the answer. Jan 18 23:01:01 if we don't tell nokia in clear certain terms then how can we expect them to know its a highly desired component Jan 18 23:01:02 The answer has been known for a long time lcuk_2 it's a question that has been around since the N800 :P Jan 18 23:01:12 lots of device manufacturers use standard parts, even if they have no interest in using all the features, often because the simplified hw, without the features, would be way more expensive. Funny world. Jan 18 23:01:27 lcuk_2, they _know_ it's highly desired. People have made a lot of comments and Nokia have said if they can do it they will. Jan 18 23:01:39 So we just have to be patient and not keep our hopes up Jan 18 23:02:08 Lynoure, exactly, and the CPU in the N8x0 tablets is used in a _lot_ of their phone models! Jan 18 23:02:16 So they get them a lot cheaper as they buy a lot of them. Jan 18 23:02:53 <`0660_> but who would use closed source drivers anyway? :) Jan 18 23:03:05 ummm nokia? Jan 18 23:03:13 ;) Jan 18 23:05:46 `0660_: well, you already are using quite a lot of closed software on your IT Jan 18 23:05:59 <`0660_> and i Jan 18 23:06:06 <`0660_> m not happy! :) Jan 18 23:06:42 but you use it Jan 18 23:06:53 so you would use closed drivers too Jan 18 23:10:02 Well, it's settled. I'm gonna continue working on gedit. Jan 18 23:11:21 alterego: to be hones, I'd preferred the SDK image :) Jan 18 23:11:25 t Jan 18 23:11:49 alterego i have found a script do you know here to paste this script http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=41808&postcount=39 Jan 18 23:11:53 michele_, I'll compile that tomorrow when I'm working on moving from my VPS to the two dedicated servers I've not got. Jan 18 23:12:02 hi Jan 18 23:14:14 I didn't realize there was actually any interested in my images :P Jan 18 23:14:24 But now I know there's at least one person interested I'll do it :) Jan 18 23:15:31 what you are talking about Jan 18 23:15:56 alterego: actually, there is a garage project with that Jan 18 23:16:20 Whoopy Jan 18 23:16:25 alterego: but I have the feeling you don't like it.. ;) Jan 18 23:16:35 alterego: it has eclipse in it Jan 18 23:17:02 Yeah, that's not how mine work. Jan 18 23:17:05 It's not like a live CD. Jan 18 23:17:14 It's just a base debian system with the SDK's setup. Jan 18 23:17:36 The idea is you ssh in and use xephyr on your main desktop. Jan 18 23:17:45 I see Jan 18 23:17:58 so it would be quite smaller too Jan 18 23:18:43 Yeah, though. It reports to be 7G at the moment. Jan 18 23:18:51 Even though the environment thinks it's only 3G .. Jan 18 23:23:20 Hello...I'm having problems installing scratchbox for N770 development..Anybody knows why am i getting "/scratchbox/dev does not contain standard device nodes!" after following the howto step-by-step? Jan 18 23:25:30 Dashiad: never even looked at the howto... but what device nodes does it got? Jan 18 23:26:17 Just a few Jan 18 23:26:18 does someone have jpegs of how to wire a serial connector to the pad inside the N800? Jan 18 23:26:18 but Jan 18 23:27:01 i've downloaded an untarred all the scratchbox files (core, libs, devkits and toolchain) Jan 18 23:27:22 belonging to the 1.0.7 Jan 18 23:28:10 Dashiad: Which few is kinda relevant... dev/null is normally at least expected, in most happy chroot situations, so why not there too Jan 18 23:28:47 Dashiad: you could pastebin ls -la /scratchbox/dev and I bet something would dawn Jan 18 23:29:08 initctl null pts Jan 18 23:30:51 yep, looked at the code giving the error Jan 18 23:30:59 it wants dev/null Jan 18 23:31:03 DEV_DIR=$SBOX_DIR/dev Jan 18 23:31:04 Yes, i'm too..But null is there.. Jan 18 23:31:05 if [ ! -c $DEV_DIR/null ]; then Jan 18 23:31:16 i'm exec-ing as root Jan 18 23:31:30 probably something wrong with it, then... Jan 18 23:32:04 i just uninstalled the scratchbox for n800 dev...maybe there are env vars around Jan 18 23:32:24 If you think that helps... Jan 18 23:37:09 Hmm..added an echo to that script, and it looks for the right dir.. Jan 18 23:44:19 wow..found the error.. Jan 18 23:44:49 the scratchbox install is screwed Jan 18 23:45:12 Dashiad: remember to submit a patch too, if it was the latest version you were using :) Jan 18 23:47:14 Is screwed, but still dont know how to solve it... Jan 18 23:47:28 The "null" device actually contains something :-P Jan 18 23:48:19 I think after asking twice what you null looks like, I should not ask again :) Jan 18 23:48:47 It contains: "tar: Semantics of -l option will change in the future releases..." .. it's a tar error Jan 18 23:52:58 Dashiad: how about just working around by creating a proper one by hand? Jan 18 23:53:21 * Lynoure gets a bit lazy at ~02 Jan 18 23:55:41 mknod dev/null c 1 3 && chmod 666 dev/null as root, that is. Jan 18 23:59:41 That makes sbox_ctl start to work Jan 19 00:00:47 I'm assuming that's a good thing? :) Jan 19 00:00:47 but then, login, complains about not being able to redirect a command to /dev/null (it's chmod-ed to 666) Jan 19 00:01:42 Um..i cant login :-P Jan 19 00:02:02 I'm trying to find which tar command is complaining when creating the devices Jan 19 00:02:32 hmm, could you maybe now show me what the resulting null node looks like, with ls -l? Jan 19 00:03:20 I would not put it beyond me to forget stuff at this hour... (damn processes needing babysitting at ungodly hours) Jan 19 00:04:05 I think in about whole 5min I'll go and get some sleep anyway Jan 19 00:05:06 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 158 Jan 19 00:17 null Jan 19 00:05:18 missing a c... Jan 19 00:05:22 Full contents (the 158 bytes) Jan 19 00:05:24 Sure Jan 19 00:05:27 because that null Jan 19 00:05:30 has been created Jan 19 00:05:33 as result Jan 19 00:05:37 of a failing tar command Jan 19 00:05:58 so, you did not try creating it by hand... Jan 19 00:05:58 so 2> /dev/null is, somehow, creating it Jan 19 00:06:05 i did Jan 19 00:06:14 i'm showing you Jan 19 00:06:18 the original null file Jan 19 00:06:24 the install created Jan 19 00:06:32 The one created by hand looks like Jan 19 00:06:50 crwxrwxrwx 1 root root 1, 3 Jan 19 00:59 Jan 19 00:06:52 it's a node Jan 19 00:06:54 oh, I thought you meant you had the redirect problem even with the handmade Jan 19 00:06:59 and i chmoed it to 777 Jan 19 00:07:06 with the hand made Jan 19 00:07:08 i can Jan 19 00:07:12 sbox_ctl start Jan 19 00:07:16 but cant login Jan 19 00:07:21 when login Jan 19 00:07:27 it says permission denied Jan 19 00:07:31 You type like an angry person, sorry if I rubbed you the wrong way Jan 19 00:08:04 Good night, good luck, too. Jan 19 00:13:21 thank you! Jan 19 00:14:11 No,lol, i'm typing like a person-with-his-gf-at-his-side so i cant type long phrases, lol Jan 19 00:18:38 I'm trying to build a package for os2008, it all works fine but the files are owned by my uid (on my desktop), not root - how do I change this? Jan 19 00:18:52 I can't sudo and fakeroot doesn't actually change the ownership? Jan 19 00:19:28 fakeroot fakes it for stuff you run with it Jan 19 00:20:42 figured so - hence why it wasn't actually changing the owner ship. How do i actually change the ownership in the scratchbox environment? Jan 19 00:20:46 like, say, the command building the package Jan 19 00:20:54 why? Jan 19 00:21:04 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Jan 19 00:21:16 ? Jan 19 00:21:16 ok - I'm building with dpkg-deb --build Jan 19 00:21:23 pfft short answers :P Jan 19 00:21:27 i've got my tree of files, all owned by me Jan 19 00:21:37 |fakeroot dpkg-deb --build| will probably do it then Jan 19 00:22:23 ok will give that a shot Jan 19 00:22:48 you don't actually need anything root owned, just that the package building process sees root owned (not really) files Jan 19 00:23:03 which fakeroot helps with Jan 19 00:27:32 kerching! Thanks sp300 Jan 19 00:27:34 0 Jan 19 00:27:54 Theres now a working bzr package for os2008 Jan 19 00:28:18 whats the best way to host one of these things - currently its just a deb linked off've my blog Jan 19 00:29:05 mud-builder probably Jan 19 00:39:39 If I wanted to create my own repository - what do I need to do (more likely the bzr guys will want to host it on their site) Jan 19 00:57:10 ping Jan 19 01:01:01 pong Jan 19 01:12:05 I've been googling but found very little trace of any project like this - Anyone considered using the skyhookwireless.com service to add wi-fi based location awareness to the N800 Jan 19 01:15:31 Thanks Tama^2 Jan 19 02:14:58 Anyone ever had trouble with networking inside scratchbox? Jan 19 02:15:13 Using that vmware scratchbox and it's got network everywhere except inside scratchbox itself. Jan 19 02:20:56 trevarthan, is it just DNS? or can you not even ping IPs? Jan 19 02:23:52 johnx: unfortunately, scratchbox has no ping command. :( Jan 19 02:24:05 so I don't really know. Jan 19 02:24:12 hmm Jan 19 02:24:52 look at /etc/nsswitch.conf from inside scratchbox Jan 19 02:25:29 mkay. looks normal Jan 19 02:26:24 also try looking at /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf from outside scratchbox Jan 19 02:26:41 they're actually different files... Jan 19 02:27:24 yeah, seems to be a dns issue as I get the temporary failure message when trying to use svn Jan 19 02:27:28 checking outside file now Jan 19 02:28:04 don't know what I'm looking for. looks normalish Jan 19 02:28:10 does it? Jan 19 02:28:15 hmm Jan 19 02:28:38 I know I had a problem with it at some point and I've heard others did as well but it might have been a different version of the maemo SDK Jan 19 02:29:02 the one inside is much more verbose. let me try overwriting it Jan 19 02:29:46 the hosts like should just be: Jan 19 02:29:47 hosts: files dns Jan 19 02:30:09 yeah. it is. didn't help. Jan 19 02:38:52 fixed it Jan 19 02:39:16 johnx: sudo cp /etc/resolv.conf /scratchbox/etc/ Jan 19 02:39:32 got the fix from here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-6332.html Jan 19 02:41:58 good deal **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jan 19 02:59:56 2008