**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 21 03:00:03 2008 Jan 21 03:42:29 woo! at least I know init starts running scripts in /etc/init.d Jan 21 03:42:45 heh Jan 21 03:43:20 I mean, I know that debian's init starts and starts at least the first script in rcS.d Jan 21 03:47:28 and now we have usbnet Jan 21 03:47:47 my telnetd won't let me connect though :/ Jan 21 03:49:57 maybe some sort of serial console over USB Jan 21 03:50:34 I think that actually might be more difficult...if I can't make the telnetd server work in another couple tries I might reconsider Jan 21 03:56:43 hey, is there a person to talk to about the N810 device program? I've been accepted but my number hasn't worked in the US store. Jan 21 03:57:10 None of the emails have any end-user-serviceable reply email address Jan 21 04:02:10 don't know myself Jan 21 04:04:28 I have no idea. Last I heard it was still up in the air. Jan 21 04:10:02 ahh wells Jan 21 04:21:10 what is the talk about n810 having fm-radio transmitter? Jan 21 04:21:43 reciever maybe Jan 21 04:26:13 there is some sites that says that n810 would have the transmitter as well Jan 21 04:28:31 maybe it was planned at some point, but not included in the final hardware? Jan 21 04:29:39 might be. at least there is Nokia FM-transmitter (car plug) offered at the n810 nokia homepage Jan 21 04:30:15 if the FCC didn't have a section on their report on the N810 then it doesn't have an FM transmitter though... Jan 21 04:30:25 also: woo! haha! booted debian on an N800 and logged in via usbnet Jan 21 04:31:52 nice Jan 21 04:31:58 that was actually pretty easy once I gave up on a physical console Jan 21 04:32:03 heh Jan 21 04:32:31 just a couple lines in the first script that init runs to start usbnet and utelnetd Jan 21 04:33:05 now I need to figure out why it won't go multiuser :/ Jan 21 04:40:26 oh...it did go multiuser. runlevel is just broken O_o Jan 21 05:57:47 looks like the N800 wireless drivers sill don't support wireless extensions 18, so no way to use wpa_supplicant :/ Jan 21 06:08:05 argh, sneezing while eating ramen sends it up my noze Jan 21 06:08:06 <- noodlenose Jan 21 06:08:15 oh nose! Jan 21 06:08:23 it stings Jan 21 06:08:27 ramen sounds delicious right now though Jan 21 06:08:54 in the local stores i can get cases of yum yum ramen very cheap Jan 21 06:08:59 also some 'mama' brand Jan 21 06:09:24 frankfurt near the trainstation has a great asian grocery with many many kinds of ramen Jan 21 06:10:49 you are awake at an interesting time johnx Jan 21 06:11:10 check my IP :) Jan 21 06:11:26 I'm in Japan Jan 21 06:11:45 wow Jan 21 06:12:09 ever see the movie 'lost in translation' starring bill murray? Jan 21 06:12:18 actually, I don't think so Jan 21 06:12:46 when you said ramen I was thinking of a local ramen place, actually :D Jan 21 06:12:47 directed by sofia coppola. very good. if you ever take business trips. it has a special reality Jan 21 06:12:52 you jerk Jan 21 06:13:16 have you been in japan for long? Jan 21 06:13:46 like 10 months or so Jan 21 06:14:16 <|R> hehe Jan 21 06:14:24 <|R> ramen like in: Tampopo ? ;) Jan 21 06:14:32 * |R is going to japan on the 28th of mars! Jan 21 06:14:33 good movie Jan 21 06:14:40 you jerk Jan 21 06:14:59 pupnik, jeez. don't be mad. I'll mail you some ramen Jan 21 06:15:09 :) Jan 21 06:15:31 make a video of something in tokyo! Jan 21 06:16:06 I don't have a video camera. :( Jan 21 06:16:06 or tkae a pic Jan 21 06:17:10 there: http://flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167931/ Jan 21 06:17:10 <|R> johnx : any hint for a 19 days trip? :) Jan 21 06:17:57 |R, Are you interested in temples and shrines or more into doing stuff in the city? Jan 21 06:18:30 pupnik, actually I think my wife took that pick. ;) It was my camera though. :P Jan 21 06:18:32 oh whatever pic you like Jan 21 06:18:33 ty Jan 21 06:18:50 poke at that page more and you get to see my tiny apartment O_o Jan 21 06:18:56 wow futuristic Jan 21 06:19:14 small! Jan 21 06:19:42 the main room is behind me in that pic I think Jan 21 06:19:48 * johnx looks back at flickr page Jan 21 06:19:52 clean Jan 21 06:20:10 notice the suitcases? just moved in when that pic was taken Jan 21 06:20:13 not as clean now Jan 21 06:45:31 johnx: how big is your apartment? Jan 21 06:46:27 you want that in feet, meters or tatami mats? Jan 21 06:46:42 <|R> haha Jan 21 06:47:01 I suppose the rooms can be small, but the bathroom need to be huge so that the toilet seat integrated with expresso machine, internet and bed can fit in :) Jan 21 06:47:20 it's just a plain toilet :/ Jan 21 06:47:34 but it has the power outlet so I can buy a replacement toilet seat with all the functions Jan 21 06:47:41 m2 would be good. do you use asian size for apartments or european? Jan 21 06:48:46 well, I'm american so I think in x feet by y feet Jan 21 06:49:17 but the guys selling the apartment think in number of tatami mats (I'm really not kidding) Jan 21 06:49:32 what is the size for it? Jan 21 06:49:35 <|R> haha Jan 21 06:49:43 <|R> try to convert that in google ;) Jan 21 06:49:53 let me measure quick, don't remember any more Jan 21 06:50:15 <|R> (doesn't work :( ) Jan 21 06:50:20 as long as u makin money Jan 21 06:51:58 http://www.pupnik.de/pupnik_4am.jpg my evening 'field testing' new dosbox Jan 21 06:53:01 so maybe the main room part of the apartment is ~9ft by ~14ft Jan 21 06:53:08 then the hallway that you see in the pic Jan 21 06:53:53 i would have problems with that Jan 21 06:53:58 johnx: thinking in a positive way. you don't need to have many friends to have a great party at your apartment :) Jan 21 06:54:45 oil, ahahaha...it's so true Jan 21 06:54:59 maybe 5 people total and the place is pretty full Jan 21 06:55:22 and alcohol is very cheap to buy at the stores... Jan 21 06:55:35 pupnik, it's a little tight Jan 21 06:56:19 pupnik, I'm confused: how does that picture have anything to do with dosbox? Jan 21 07:00:18 that was me testing dosbox tonight in the park Jan 21 07:00:33 with a becks Jan 21 07:00:55 ah, just without a pic of a tablet running dosbox? :P Jan 21 07:01:06 cool pic though Jan 21 07:01:08 a few nice surprises tonight, 1942 was faster than i dreamed Jan 21 07:01:09 ty Jan 21 07:01:23 but there are a lot of problems left to sort out Jan 21 07:01:37 yah no tablet Jan 21 07:02:20 well I've been making a little progress on getting debian booting on the N800, but it's not really "usable" in any way right now Jan 21 07:02:51 wow Jan 21 07:03:14 it boots, usb networking works, and I can run utelnetd and login Jan 21 07:04:30 no physical console, no xserver, no wifi, no sound, no powersaving, no cpufreq, no access to builtin NAND Jan 21 07:05:20 well that's all... frills Jan 21 07:05:25 :D Jan 21 07:05:36 that's what I keep telling people Jan 21 07:07:25 well my little coaster on the bell curve of consciousness is off the far edge Jan 21 07:07:47 well below the poitn where i should be on a puter Jan 21 07:07:49 - cheers Jan 21 07:07:59 g'night Jan 21 07:38:24 my n810 is f'd up... reboot loop. i've managed to stop it from looping with the disable-watchdog flasher thing, and i can ssh into it, but i'm having trouble figuring out what it causing the watchdog to go off Jan 21 07:38:34 any ideas on where to look? obviously /var/log isn't a choice Jan 21 07:41:06 irq, anything can cause it it seems Jan 21 07:41:25 I tried to add an alsa gstreamer plugin and ended up in reboot loop Jan 21 07:41:26 from what i've read on internettablettalk it's probably the recent rtcomm update Jan 21 07:41:33 which updated the package osso-accounts-plugin-idle Jan 21 07:41:44 that could be it then Jan 21 07:41:44 any idea on how i can either confirm that or get the files that the original osso-accounts-plugin-idle had? Jan 21 07:41:53 I didn't add the new rtcomm stuff Jan 21 07:42:00 ah Jan 21 07:42:12 johnx... may i beg you... to tar up your osso-accounts-plugin-idle files and send them to me? Jan 21 07:42:18 really all i need is /usr/lib/libaccounts-plugins* Jan 21 07:42:25 hang on a sec Jan 21 07:42:43 I need to reboot my tablet back into maemo Jan 21 07:42:45 thanks! Jan 21 07:42:49 what were you using? kde? Jan 21 07:42:57 debian :) Jan 21 07:43:04 oh :) Jan 21 07:43:07 i saw a kde build recently Jan 21 07:43:12 debian sid works, right? Jan 21 07:43:15 is there no way to get a .deb for the osso-accounts-plugin-idle previous version? Jan 21 07:43:41 irq, I should be able to make you one with dpkg-repack Jan 21 07:43:48 LoCusF, in a chroot yes Jan 21 07:43:50 damn john, that'd be the most awesome thing in the whole world Jan 21 07:44:15 i also need to look into some sort of method for making an exact bootable duplicate of internal flash onto my sd card Jan 21 07:44:20 or then search via apt-cache the correct version and then install it: apt-get install osso-accounts-plugin-idle=version Jan 21 07:44:28 y'know, like dd if=/dev/sda but that would work on this nokia thing. Jan 21 07:44:34 I can make it boot and get usbnet but I'm missing the following: sound, touchscreen, video of any sort, sound, power saving, wireless, bluetooth and access to the clock Jan 21 07:45:11 search for "boot from sd n800" and you'll find what you want Jan 21 07:45:23 it's a little bit involved, but if you follow directions it works out fine Jan 21 07:45:35 ok cool Jan 21 07:45:39 irq, try apt-cache policy osso-accounts-plugin-idle Jan 21 07:45:49 and tell me if you see an older version available in a repository Jan 21 07:45:53 no :( Jan 21 07:45:56 just 0.2-1.2 Jan 21 07:46:09 having trouble making a package? Jan 21 07:46:16 it'll just take a while Jan 21 07:46:22 I have to get dpkg-repack installed again Jan 21 07:46:25 oh that's fine, thanks so much! Jan 21 07:46:30 i hope this fixes it Jan 21 07:46:34 are there really no log files anywhere? Jan 21 07:46:39 hopefully it will Jan 21 07:46:39 is there a way to enable logging of watchdog? Jan 21 07:46:46 not that I know of Jan 21 07:47:00 that doesn't mean much though :) Jan 21 07:47:17 so like i said, i put it in the no-watchdog mode, and it powers up and stays on, but the screen is white constantly, no gui. is that normal for no-watchdog + rd mode? Jan 21 07:47:30 johnx: sup :) Jan 21 07:47:34 hey Jan 21 07:47:44 irq, aaah...it won't even get to a desktop? Jan 21 07:47:50 not currently, no Jan 21 07:47:55 that's not normal :( Jan 21 07:48:04 wsod Jan 21 07:48:10 yes loucsf Jan 21 07:48:18 any way to determine why? like i said, i have ssh access Jan 21 07:48:29 i sooooooooo don't want to reflash Jan 21 07:48:59 you can at least tar up your / and put it on an sd card Jan 21 07:49:11 mediaplayer-engine is running - is that normal? Jan 21 07:49:25 I don't really know Jan 21 07:49:48 my day job is a linux sysadmin, and i have to say it pisses me off that i can't find any logging info in this thing at all Jan 21 07:49:52 hey rm_you Jan 21 07:49:56 i know it makes sense not to let the tiny memory fill up with log files Jan 21 07:50:05 but at least the last 10 minutes or something would be extremely helpful here Jan 21 07:50:40 nokia made a lot of choices that aren't targetted at hackers Jan 21 07:50:49 such as not enabling support for a physical console Jan 21 07:51:07 anyways, irq, I'm making dinner, so I'm going to let this run and I'll be back in ~10-20 minutes Jan 21 07:51:14 okay, thanks Jan 21 07:51:26 if i'm not here when you get back, please email to prs a(t) nyip () net Jan 21 07:52:17 sure Jan 21 07:52:30 so anyone else here have tips on troubleshooting a whitescreen of death? Jan 21 07:52:31 yeah Jan 21 07:52:37 lack of /var/log/* is AGGRIVATING >_< Jan 21 07:52:39 >_< Jan 21 07:52:40 >_< Jan 21 07:53:02 so is lack of physical console built into kernel Jan 21 07:53:07 but debian boots at least Jan 21 07:55:12 while we're all talking, has anyone here had problems with rdesktop? Jan 21 07:55:27 for me, it works once, but then unless i reboot, it never works again; failing with an X11 "Bad Window" error message Jan 21 07:56:40 nothing to test against Jan 21 07:56:46 good for you :) Jan 21 07:56:50 occupational hazard for me... Jan 21 07:57:03 heh..except the wife's laptop...heheheh :D Jan 21 07:57:12 the only reason i use it is for the vmware virtualcenter client, which runs my esx servers that run all my linux stuff :) Jan 21 07:59:14 johnx: so wait... you actually got debian booting on it? :P Jan 21 07:59:22 yeah Jan 21 07:59:26 wow :P Jan 21 07:59:29 with caveats mentioned above Jan 21 08:01:15 I need to try to get my backlight app set up on garage now... Jan 21 08:01:51 irq, I don't have that plugin Jan 21 08:02:01 I have one for jabber gtalk and sip Jan 21 08:02:04 no idle Jan 21 08:02:10 try removing it I guess Jan 21 08:02:17 Is there like... a Garage tutorial? :P Jan 21 08:02:22 i did :( Jan 21 08:02:31 this is so f'd up Jan 21 08:02:31 like when adding a file, what does "Release Name" mean Jan 21 08:03:00 so i guess the real problem i should be trying to solve is simply getting the desktop to show up Jan 21 08:03:36 I would tar up your / while you can, do a little more hacking, reflash and get root-on-sd setup Jan 21 08:03:43 yeah it's rsyncing right now Jan 21 08:03:53 good deal Jan 21 08:03:55 rsync ftw Jan 21 08:04:00 my goal is to just get this fixed once and then do root-on-sd Jan 21 08:04:11 yeah exactly, rsync. there's an example of one of the maaaaaaaaaaaany little things i had to do to get this thing to work the way i want Jan 21 08:04:16 that i totally don't want to do over again Jan 21 08:05:06 do you use the 128mb memory extension thing? (e.g. /media/mmc2/.swap) Jan 21 08:06:14 nah, swapping to flash mem never struck me as that great of an idea...except for cards I don't care about or that have lifetime warranties Jan 21 08:06:53 * johnx goes afk Jan 21 08:09:28 I find it humorous that the Maemo Garage asks what Operating System your project is designed to run on, but it doesn't include any of the Internet Tablet OS' in the list >_> Jan 21 08:10:20 Does it have linux? Jan 21 08:10:38 Because ITOS is linux.. Jan 21 08:10:44 yeah.... but Jan 21 08:10:50 that isn't especially helpful Jan 21 08:11:10 File a bug for it then? :) Jan 21 08:11:11 yeah all the ITOS are linux :P Jan 21 08:11:12 I mean, that's what I ended up putting... Jan 21 08:11:31 but a choice itos 2007 / 2008 etc would be more useful :p Jan 21 08:11:49 After I scrolled down a bit, they did actually have a choice for that, so i guess it's fine Jan 21 08:11:55 it was just really confusing. Jan 21 08:11:56 ok :) Jan 21 08:12:16 has anyone here actually used their n7/8* as a car navigation thingy? Jan 21 08:12:23 yes Jan 21 08:12:27 ALL THE TIME Jan 21 08:13:24 works pretty well? Jan 21 08:13:34 yeah Jan 21 08:13:59 great Jan 21 08:14:07 wayfinder is kind of expensive Jan 21 08:14:11 but i do get lost all. the. time. Jan 21 08:14:20 I just use MaemoMapper Jan 21 08:14:36 does that do voice prompts and actual driving directions? Jan 21 08:15:54 irq: yes Jan 21 08:15:58 sup Zetx Jan 21 08:16:02 yo Jan 21 08:16:10 rm_you, btw, search for text2speech on itt and check out my hack :P Jan 21 08:16:15 :P Jan 21 08:16:29 It's a sad day when it takes more than 2 seconds to load the images on your modem's setup pages Jan 21 08:17:10 mo-dem ? Jan 21 08:17:20 is that some kind of a .. drug? Jan 21 08:17:38 eh. adsl modem? whatever. it's.. oh the box says "gateway" Jan 21 08:18:04 lol Jan 21 08:21:21 is there any way to query available battery life from command line? Jan 21 08:21:58 Oh. ... Oh, wow. http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=43 Jan 21 08:22:21 I love it. Jan 21 08:22:32 irq, lookup batterystatus Jan 21 08:23:03 Zetx: heh, i read that when it came out originally. i'm pretty convinced it's fake. Jan 21 08:24:33 Yeah Jan 21 08:24:41 that's a great troll Jan 21 08:24:43 classic Jan 21 08:26:53 I want to find a post by the guy accusing linux users of being communist with bullet points supporting his statement. Jan 21 08:27:22 we're definitely more socialistic than windows-weenies, you have to admit Jan 21 08:28:36 yeah, it's interesting how the license of an OS builds a community that feels a certain way about software Jan 21 08:29:00 every day i live brings another day i hate money and making money and working Jan 21 08:29:12 i'm like -><- that close to becoming some kind of a hermit Jan 21 08:29:16 if it wasn't for my family i'd be there already Jan 21 08:29:23 money is fine as long it's a means to an end Jan 21 08:29:34 when it stops being an end in and of itself it becomes a problem Jan 21 08:29:57 maybe it's because i keep workign for startups Jan 21 08:30:17 where everyone is shitting themselves if their possible future stock value has shrunk a little Jan 21 08:30:23 ah Jan 21 08:30:23 OMG it's fixed Jan 21 08:30:28 the idle package Jan 21 08:30:31 woo! Jan 21 08:30:34 it wasn't acutlly deleted ( ithought i deleted it) Jan 21 08:30:40 so i nuked it and now everything's back Jan 21 08:30:46 that rocks Jan 21 08:30:47 mr. johnx, i applaud you, thank you very much Jan 21 08:30:52 no prob Jan 21 08:31:05 I think someone else figured out that package was the problem anyways Jan 21 08:31:20 the first new-version of thaty package was fine Jan 21 08:31:24 the one that added AIM support Jan 21 08:31:28 but the second version f'd up Jan 21 08:31:45 one more question for you, i deleted one of the wayfinder maps (east coast usa, since i live on west coast).. is there any way to get it back? Jan 21 08:33:16 i lied, i have another question, is there anything bad about letting the n810 run permanently in no-watchdog and r&d mode? Jan 21 08:36:46 sorry, the answers are "no idea" and "no idea" respectively Jan 21 08:36:50 well anyway, i'm too frozen to not be in bed anymore, so i will leave you now and read Charles Stross :) thanks again johnx and everyone else, you guys rule 100%. Jan 21 08:37:02 ah okay, np. thanks john! have a good night! Jan 21 08:37:07 you too Jan 21 08:37:08 'night Jan 21 09:00:49 what would be a good way to sync maemo mapper maps, routes and pois with different devices? Jan 21 09:01:33 eg. devices are in home in the night. export the information, collect all to a single place and then put the files back to the devices Jan 21 09:01:39 magic Jan 21 09:01:46 hard to come by though Jan 21 09:01:56 :P Jan 21 09:01:57 oil_, conduit might be a good starting point... Jan 21 09:02:08 for synchronization in general that is Jan 21 09:02:27 bilboed: thanks. I'll check that one out. the transfer itself I would do with rsync Jan 21 09:03:36 gpsbabel Jan 21 09:03:50 hmm Jan 21 09:04:25 Morning, all Jan 21 09:04:27 it can help you hand things off to maemo mapper in a format it can cope with...but I don't know about the other way Jan 21 09:06:19 one use case would be in home usage. another to share POIs and routes with people in same region. Jan 21 09:06:51 I can't remember what kind of file poi.db is, maybe sqlite? Jan 21 09:07:05 either way you'll be doing a lot of scripting O_o Jan 21 09:07:05 I understood that it would be sqlite Jan 21 09:07:12 mornin' jaffa Jan 21 09:15:03 good morning Jan 21 09:15:24 johnx: building my first NORMAL gtk app now :) Jan 21 09:16:36 what's it do? Jan 21 09:16:53 Life Tracking for Magic the Gathering games :P Jan 21 09:17:00 ... Jan 21 09:17:04 Hi ! Jan 21 09:17:07 just two labels and buttons to +/- them Jan 21 09:17:13 one will be upside-down though Jan 21 09:17:18 so I have to figure out how to do that Jan 21 09:17:27 someone know a rogue like game which is traducted in french N Jan 21 09:17:28 ? Jan 21 09:21:15 rm, "magic the gathering" and "life" in the same sentence, that doesn't sound right Jan 21 09:21:36 life as in hp I think (*hope*) he means Jan 21 09:21:51 Ahh, that would make sense Jan 21 09:27:17 lol yes :P Jan 21 09:27:45 though relative to maemo stuff, MTG steals only a sliver of my life away :P Jan 21 09:30:56 Anyone know EXACTLY what it means for a program to "hibernate"? Jan 21 09:30:57 I Jan 21 09:31:21 I'm looking at the hildon API, and it says this: "For instance hildon_program_set_can_hibernate() sets whether or not an application can be set to hibernate by the Hildon task navigator, in situations of low memory." Jan 21 09:34:57 bon dia / good morning Jan 21 09:35:09 Yo! Jan 21 09:35:13 rm, it means that the program has saved it's state somewhere and it can be killed Jan 21 09:36:45 rm, so when in "hibernation", the program is not running, but can be started to the same state it was before killing it Jan 21 09:37:42 rm, for trivial programs, implementation is quite trivial, but if you have, for example, multi-level undo, you'll need to write the whole undo stack somewhere Jan 21 09:41:44 rm, there are some state saving functions in libosso, but obviously they can only provide you with the data saving/loading, you need to interpret the data yourself Jan 21 09:42:52 inz: thanks Jan 21 09:51:30 Is it my imagination, or is there absolutely no way to find out whether openntpd is functioning correcly on my maemo device? Jan 21 09:54:07 blahdeblah > same here Jan 21 09:54:58 It doesn't seem to have any log files (understandably), and doesn't respond to ntpq -p from another machine. :-( Jan 21 09:55:36 Khertan: I ran it with -d from the command line and it looks like it's working, but, it seems silly that there's no way to query it about its distance from its peers. Jan 21 10:59:05 are there documents about UI guidelines? specifically, menu structure Jan 21 11:06:45 "At this point the UI guidelines have not yet been published, but we are working to make them available." Jan 21 11:07:45 Is there any graphical calculator for maemo? Jan 21 11:14:16 yay, the n810 for work has shown up :D Jan 21 11:15:05 ¨Work¨ Jan 21 11:15:12 ;D Jan 21 11:17:11 lol, i wish i could just play with it ... but i suspect i'll get a chance to fiddle to decide if i want to upgrade to it Jan 21 11:17:50 Cptn-N800: there is free42, which is an HP-42s emulator Jan 21 11:18:07 Cptn-N800: and I think the Qt4 port project ported another nice one Jan 21 11:18:16 oh Jan 21 11:18:18 graphical Jan 21 11:18:47 flip^: what kind of work? Jan 21 11:19:31 well... technically the 42s can do graphs... Jan 21 11:20:55 Nothing like the casio ones? Jan 21 11:21:49 Als, is there any way of opening .doc on m Jan 21 11:21:52 Os29 Jan 21 11:21:56 Ops Jan 21 11:22:08 Wrong button -.- Stupid usb kb layout Jan 21 11:22:34 Opening .doc on os2008 Jan 21 11:25:39 Cptn-N800: abiword? google docs? Jan 21 11:26:39 antiword should compile easily enough for maemo :-) Jan 21 11:27:04 strings? ;) Jan 21 11:37:18 Thx, google docs did the job Jan 21 11:58:59 maddler: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=131055#post131055 Jan 21 11:59:22 Is it possible to use the USB connection cable as NIC somehow? Using the network of my company laptop? Jan 21 12:02:01 Blafasel: yeah. You need to fiddle a bit though. Jan 21 12:04:22 Blafasel: been a while that I did that but you need to insert the (IIRC) g_ether module. Jan 21 12:06:13 michele_: reading Jan 21 12:06:51 nomis: Thanks Jan 21 12:07:03 Isn't that package only available in red-pill mode? Jan 21 12:07:21 GeneralAntilles: nope... Jan 21 12:07:34 You sure? Jan 21 12:07:36 you only need to be in RP to install it... Jan 21 12:07:43 I've only seen it with red pill enabled over here. Jan 21 12:08:06 I can double check... but pretty sure... Jan 21 12:08:09 Enabling red-pill to force-install something is bad practice. <_< Jan 21 12:08:23 yep... I know... :) Jan 21 12:08:36 but... that's how you can find bugs :) Jan 21 12:08:54 Ha Jan 21 12:09:06 I know I can broke things that way... :) Jan 21 12:09:15 Really, everybody needs to stop telling newbies about red pill. Jan 21 12:09:17 so I won;t complain when it occurs... :) Jan 21 12:09:25 GeneralAntilles: absolutely true! Jan 21 12:09:28 you enable red-pill, install the installer and then install rtcomm Jan 21 12:09:35 but upgrades don't need red-pill Jan 21 12:09:36 now Jan 21 12:09:38 lunch Jan 21 12:09:39 later Jan 21 12:09:40 They think it's some sort of magic pill or something. :D Jan 21 12:10:14 lol!Q Jan 21 12:10:20 GeneralAntilles: what exactly this matrix do? Jan 21 12:10:51 hahlo: brings you to a parallel universe :) Jan 21 12:11:21 GeneralAntilles: confirmed rtcom will show even in blue pill mode :) Jan 21 12:11:30 btw... time to go eat something here... Jan 21 12:11:32 later dudes... Jan 21 12:11:33 is it somekind of force for apt? Jan 21 12:12:05 --force-depencies or somthing? Jan 21 12:13:45 hmm commander keen... Jan 21 12:15:08 I could go for that, pupnik. :) Jan 21 12:15:31 Awww i remember that Jan 21 12:15:39 Pogo stick! Jan 21 12:15:48 An astronauts best friend Jan 21 12:17:41 http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/redpill.html hildon-app-mgr is worst apt front i have seen so far Jan 21 12:17:58 i thought that synaptic is baddest Jan 21 12:18:20 what's so bad about synaptic :/ Jan 21 12:19:07 rubber boot has really ruined debian system Jan 21 12:22:48 hahlo, did you ever try the first version? **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 21 12:54:47 2008 Jan 21 12:57:14 hmm, anyone else had the contacts manager fail to import entries in a vsf file if one of them holds a extended ascii letter? Jan 21 13:04:21 inz: no only 2007&2008 Jan 21 13:05:48 back Jan 21 13:11:24 hahlo, the 2005 version was truely horrible Jan 21 13:18:23 hello **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 21 13:23:39 2008 Jan 21 13:25:52 what's this Jan 21 13:26:58 K-Fox: I think there is some scheduled maintenance of the servers today. Jan 21 13:27:37 ok Jan 21 13:40:08 Wooo, netsplits! Jan 21 13:44:03 how much is n800 Jan 21 13:44:15 ? Jan 21 13:44:51 K-Fox: depends on where you buy it Jan 21 13:47:19 GeneralAntilles, i told you not to press that button again Jan 21 13:48:26 what button? Jan 21 13:48:43 the one that reboots the internets Jan 21 13:50:16 Sorry Jan 21 13:50:20 It's just so big and red. :3 Jan 21 13:50:55 big red buttons are the bestest Jan 21 13:50:56 lol :) Jan 21 13:54:08 hell yeah Jan 21 13:54:15 are we talking about fceu? Jan 21 13:54:15 or blue buttons with the text "red" in them Jan 21 13:54:27 like in the universal I ching calculator Jan 21 13:54:54 * Tak have to calculate yi ching by hand Jan 21 13:55:19 you'd need to be an octopus to do that Jan 21 13:55:55 wouldn't it be by tentacle then? Jan 21 13:56:34 semantics! Jan 21 13:56:46 fingers are just so unnecessary really Jan 21 13:57:36 cizarro, then you don't mind if I cut yours off? Jan 21 13:57:53 you can but mine off, but replace them with tenticles Jan 21 13:58:07 [announce] Streamtuner now available for OS2008. Enjoy ;-) http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/streamtuner/ Jan 21 13:59:13 got to love modest, one account works fine, another dies upon mail check Jan 21 13:59:31 both are pop3 server Jan 21 14:00:14 inz, I've already donated mine to better uses! Jan 21 14:00:25 inz, and no, you cannot have my toes.. Jan 21 14:10:20 lets all go and give this netsplit a kicking Jan 21 14:10:27 oops Jan 21 14:39:06 Hmm.. There's no kismet for 2008 yet? Jan 21 14:58:09 I admit being not really a debian guy, but is http://repository.maemo.org/dists/chinook/ down somehow? Trying to install samba here, which relies on that repository for samba-common Jan 21 14:59:21 looks up to me Jan 21 14:59:34 contains http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/samba/samba-common_3.0.23c-1osso6_armel.deb Jan 21 15:00:08 Hmm.. Right you are. But my tablet refuses to find that package. Jan 21 15:01:34 is it looking for a specific version? Jan 21 15:01:49 same here, smbfs and samba can't be installed because of missing dep samba-common Jan 21 15:02:47 Tak: Ah, yes it is. =3.0.22-3 Jan 21 15:02:58 Which starts to make sense now Jan 21 15:03:01 * Tak nods Jan 21 15:03:38 Thanks for pointing out the obvious stuff I missed ;) Jan 21 15:04:03 * Tak shrugs Jan 21 15:05:28 so what? the idea is to install manually http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/s/samba/samba-common_3.0.23c-1osso6_armel.deb, then samba or smbclient from the app manager? Jan 21 15:06:03 that samba-common package won't work with the samba package to which Blafasel is referring Jan 21 15:06:11 hm ok Jan 21 15:06:40 problem is that from the app manager, available samba and smbclient versions are 3.022-3 Jan 21 15:07:15 I will see if a samba-comomon 3.0.22 is available Jan 21 15:12:35 Where the heck can I find libwpeditor-plus-dev? Jan 21 15:13:08 http://www.gronmayer.com/it Jan 21 15:25:29 * petergunn looks around and checks if hes connected Jan 21 15:26:13 sorry, you're not. please try again later. Jan 21 15:28:31 GeneralAntilles: ah, I was missing the chinook extras repo. thanks. Jan 21 15:28:31 I try installing some packages from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/ on my n810 (like 'patch_2.5.9-2_armel.deb') but the app manager complains it's incompatible package type.. did I miss something? Jan 21 15:28:41 New n810 arrived...worked ok, installed one or 2 app, app manager the refused to work, rebooted, now it is stuck at the nokia logo, the blue bar load, and..nothing... Jan 21 15:28:52 Does it feels like reflashing already ? Jan 21 15:29:15 melmoth: flashing w/ the latest os2008 revision sounds a good idea then Jan 21 15:29:28 (and since you can't boot, you've nothing to loose ;-) Jan 21 15:31:08 I'm making an OSSO RPC call to the browser method "load_url" to open links. Is there a method to open them in a new window? Jan 21 15:35:10 I don't have an intltool binary in my chinook vmware scratchbox. What's up with that? Jan 21 15:38:34 apt-get install intltool ? Jan 21 15:38:40 already installed Jan 21 15:39:13 maybe something else is goin gon Jan 21 15:46:24 figured it out. nm. Jan 21 15:56:22 python/gtk question: im trying to make black buttons with white text but nothing is jumping out at me. can someone point me in the right direction please Jan 21 15:57:12 generally one doesn't override the gtk theme ... Jan 21 15:57:31 <||cw> why would you want such an atrocity.... Jan 21 15:57:35 yes - hence its not a normal thing Jan 21 15:57:38 <||cw> unless it's the theme... Jan 21 15:58:02 but i dont want to change the entire theme for 1 app. unless of course i can specify a theme for a specific app Jan 21 15:58:23 lcuk_2, wants to blind everybody. Jan 21 15:58:25 -, Jan 21 15:58:38 opposite, i want to stop people from being blinded Jan 21 15:58:50 at the moment the entire screen is practically whitewashed Jan 21 15:59:04 has buttons which are visible from orbit Jan 21 15:59:30 Don't feed me your drivel, eye killer! :P Jan 21 15:59:57 WARNING: do not look into the remote control app with your remaining eye Jan 21 16:00:05 let people decide their own themes for gtk stuff Jan 21 16:00:35 then i want a nice black theme for this specific app, it looks great for everything else just not this one page Jan 21 16:01:31 lcuk_2: in fact, you can override the theme for a single application Jan 21 16:01:43 ahhhh michele Jan 21 16:01:49 lcuk_2: you just have to specify a custom gtkrc when starting it Jan 21 16:01:56 so its like skinning and i will be able to give the user a choice Jan 21 16:02:18 * lcuk_2 hugs michele for being the first person to actually give me hope Jan 21 16:02:20 lcuk_2: if you just want to change the color of the buttons, you can do the programmatically too, with GtkStyles Jan 21 16:02:33 lcuk_2: it is entirely possible Jan 21 16:02:39 \o/ wooo hooo Jan 21 16:03:05 right, ill go investigating some more, any keywords besides gtkrc i should be looking out for Jan 21 16:03:31 lcuk_2: gtkstyle, gtk resource files Jan 21 16:04:10 lcuk_2: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkStyle.html Jan 21 16:04:13 ok thanks, i tried the same in the gtk room but the miserable sods didnt offer anything besides "cant be done" ... Jan 21 16:04:14 http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/gtk-Resource-Files.html Jan 21 16:04:53 great stuff michele_, ill sit back and take a read Jan 21 16:04:57 lcuk_2: doesn't modify_bg/fg work on buttons? Jan 21 16:05:15 when i tried it it wouldnt modify anything Jan 21 16:05:31 what about modify_base? Jan 21 16:05:49 tried it on buttons and labels, when i looked other people were saying it wasnt available in all versions of gtk so thought that i was just out of luck Jan 21 16:05:53 lcuk_2: I think that fancy image viewer does that (quiver?) Jan 21 16:06:24 it should work with labels at least Jan 21 16:06:26 ill take a look, thanks Jan 21 16:06:30 worked for me Jan 21 16:06:55 * lcuk_2 might have just been doing it wrong. meh i live and learn Jan 21 16:07:09 lcuk_2: http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkWidget.html#gtk-widget-set-style Jan 21 16:07:40 or better http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkWidget.html#gtk-widget-modify-style Jan 21 16:09:45 lcuk_2: anyway, I suggest you to give the user the option to use the default theme colours Jan 21 16:10:48 michele_, i totally agree, the only problem was i have massive finger buttons which look stupid in white Jan 21 16:11:45 * lcuk_2 makes use of available screen estate rather than making every click target a bullseye Jan 21 16:12:11 hey all.. is there a way to force my n800 (os2008) not to open the "select connection" window when I try to access online resources? I'm using usb networking so I don't need the wireless... Jan 21 16:16:53 lophyte, there was some "dummy" networking in the past, dunno if it still works Jan 21 16:19:26 I haven't found anything on the wiki about it either.. Jan 21 16:19:47 even the usb networking tutorial just says that once its hooked up, browsing should work Jan 21 16:19:48 I'm making an OSSO RPC call to the browser method "load_url" to open links. Is there a method to open them in a new window? Jan 21 16:21:46 Spak, fakeroot apt-get install tablet-browser-interface-dev; less /usr/include/tablet-browser-interface.h Jan 21 16:22:15 inz: awesome, thanks Jan 21 16:50:14 lcuk_2>bye Jan 21 16:50:16 bye Jan 21 17:18:37 Has anyone gotten a simple gstreamer tcp connection working on the N800? I am using a few different blog posts I found as examples and I just keep getting "Connection refused" every time. Jan 21 17:36:30 anybody got their wisdom teeth pulled? Jan 21 17:39:01 !list Jan 21 17:39:56 skibur, I have. Jan 21 17:40:31 how long did it take u to heal? Jan 21 17:41:15 skibur, as far as the pain goes, it's very variable for everyone. For some reason it didn't bother me at all and I ate solid food just a couple hours later. Jan 21 17:41:35 I know some really tough people who've been laid up for weeks though. Jan 21 17:42:01 As far as those little places that can catch your food, that took nearly a month for mine to heal. Jan 21 17:42:30 it doesn't hurt for me, it is just bleeding a little Jan 21 17:42:38 And I had to get a water syringe (highly recomended) for putting into my gums and blasting out the food. Jan 21 17:42:51 skibur, the blood should stop in a day. Jan 21 17:43:23 ? Jan 21 17:43:35 But ask your doctor for one of those little water blasters. It's very helpful. My first time the doctor gave it to me. The second I had to ask and wouldn't have known about them if not for the first doctor. Jan 21 17:43:56 this my 4th day Jan 21 17:44:20 Oh really? And still bleading? Huh. I stopped bleeding the next day. I thought that was pretty standard. Jan 21 17:44:39 little blood coming out compared to friday Jan 21 17:44:49 I bled for about 10 days... and was sick for three weeks Jan 21 17:45:04 * jsmith isn't typical, thank goodness Jan 21 17:45:48 :( Jan 21 17:47:05 i hope i stop bleeding by today Jan 21 17:52:22 Crap, reflashed the n800...installed some apps again... stuck again at the end of the blue progress bar. Jan 21 17:52:33 How can i know wich apps if any is causing the hang ? Jan 21 17:53:35 hmm, that is a n810 actually, but i guess the question would be the same Jan 21 17:54:54 I took my four tooths in a day Jan 21 17:55:04 s/tooths/teeth/ Jan 21 17:55:04 Xamusk meant: I took my four teeth in a day Jan 21 17:55:04 Xamusk meant: I took my four teeth in a day Jan 21 17:55:15 ;) Jan 21 17:55:52 I was faster :Þ Jan 21 17:58:04 I only had problems with one of them, which was at 90 degrees in my mouth Jan 21 17:58:21 I still remember the bones cracking when the dentist pulled it Jan 21 17:58:42 the only one wich needed stitches Jan 21 18:01:47 me too, all four are out as of friday :( Jan 21 18:21:22 could it be that i have changed the user password ? Jan 21 18:21:48 i did that on the n800 too, same os, no reboot problem with that there. Jan 21 18:25:27 anyone familiar with setting up SIP on os2008/n800? Jan 21 18:25:59 lophyte: I've done it... Jan 21 18:26:15 I'm just wondering if there's a way to get more verbose error messages to help in debugging... Jan 21 18:26:23 it won't connect, but all it says is "network error" Jan 21 18:26:35 which doesn't help me much Jan 21 18:26:44 lophyte: No, not really... I always fire up a packet sniffer (on the SIP registrar/proxy/server side) and look at the SIP messages Jan 21 18:26:54 * jsmith is a VoIP guy Jan 21 18:27:24 I'm not even getting registration messages in asterisk Jan 21 18:27:31 so I'm assuming the packets aren't even getting there Jan 21 18:27:42 Ah, this is Asterisk -- even better Jan 21 18:27:44 I'm in for a nightmare anyway, double NAT Jan 21 18:27:49 * jsmith wrote the O'Reilly book for Asterisk Jan 21 18:27:54 really? Jan 21 18:28:02 Yup... you're talking to the right guy Jan 21 18:28:04 nice :) Jan 21 18:28:32 I've got my asterisk server at home behind NAT, and my n800 here behind my work's NAT Jan 21 18:28:39 If you do a "sip set debug" (for Asterisk 1.4) or "sip debug" (Asterisk 1.2) and you don't even see the REGISTER coming from your n800, then no amount of configuration on the n800 can help you Jan 21 18:29:08 You've at least got to forward port 5060 udp (not tcp, udp!) on your NAT firewall at home Jan 21 18:29:21 yeah, I've got that much Jan 21 18:29:31 Then you should at least be able to register. Jan 21 18:29:35 5060 UDP and 10000-10099 UDP, and rtp.conf set for 10000-10099 Jan 21 18:30:00 asterisk and obelix ^^ Jan 21 18:30:12 OK, then you should be getting the SIP messaging through Jan 21 18:30:26 Cptnodegard: No, that's "Asterix", which is a totally different trademark ;-) Jan 21 18:30:32 i know Jan 21 18:30:35 im just bored Jan 21 18:30:39 randomness ftw Jan 21 18:30:52 nothing showing up in the sip debug though, hm Jan 21 18:32:08 lophyte: And you're sure the firewall is forwarding to the proper IP? Jan 21 18:32:33 at home, yes Jan 21 18:32:47 I've got my n810 talking to my Jan 21 18:32:51 Asterisk box right now Jan 21 18:33:01 is there a low-level test I can do, ie. netcat to my asterisk box on port 5060 and send it a SIP command? Jan 21 18:33:16 (in fact, it's talking to two different Asterisk boxes... on on the local LAN and one out on the internet) Jan 21 18:34:22 I still think you'd be better off to fire up Wireshark or tcpdump on the Asterisk box Jan 21 18:34:29 ah, ok Jan 21 18:34:33 It appears the traffic isn't making it to that box at *all* Jan 21 18:39:16 yeah, it looks like I'm not seeing anything on the asterisk box Jan 21 18:39:54 Grumble where has gpe calendar for chinook gone ? Jan 21 18:41:51 melmoth: There was a post on planet.maemo.org about it the other day Jan 21 18:47:48 jsmith, interesting, if I nc to UDP 5060 from here, it shows up in a packet sniff on the server Jan 21 18:48:04 Oh? Jan 21 18:48:20 that is, if I nc from the n800... Jan 21 18:48:27 lophyte: Did you mistype the IP address (or domain name) of your server in the configuration on the n800? Jan 21 18:48:36 no, I've re-entered it and double-checked it Jan 21 18:49:09 transport is UDP, port is 5060.. Jan 21 18:50:37 is udp (noticably) faster than a pre-connected data stream? Jan 21 18:50:43 tcp^ Jan 21 18:55:08 huh, go figure... Jan 21 18:55:15 works now Jan 21 18:55:55 ran a packet sniffer on my n800, looking for udp packets detined for 5060, and realized there was no packets going out... Jan 21 18:56:04 so I changed the hostname to an IP and now it works.. which is no good since my home IP is dynamic Jan 21 18:56:28 but at least it works Jan 21 19:11:25 on a n810, with maemomapper, how to use the internal gps ? Jan 21 19:11:44 gpsd does not seems to run, no bluetooth one, and no /dev/gps device neither Jan 21 19:11:50 Bluetooth Jan 21 19:11:54 No MAC Jan 21 19:12:29 ahh, thats works better. Jan 21 19:12:32 Thanks general ! Jan 21 19:15:02 I have a couple of questions Jan 21 19:16:17 where is a list of hardware maemo works on Jan 21 19:16:29 does all maemo apps work on all hardware Jan 21 19:16:41 and can I synch tomboy with my tomboy notes on my ubuntu PC Jan 21 19:18:18 AlexJTanner: 1) afaik only Nokia 770, N800 and N810 Jan 21 19:18:43 ok and tomboy Jan 21 19:18:51 2) Maemo is the development platform, "ITOS" is the internet tablet OS Jan 21 19:19:12 3) OS changes between 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 break some compatibility Jan 21 19:19:45 tomboy is what? Jan 21 19:19:53 the note taking application Jan 21 19:20:09 http://code.google.com/p/tomboy-maemo/ Jan 21 19:20:57 tomboy requires mono Jan 21 19:21:01 so tomboy does not run Jan 21 19:21:14 but you can sync tomboy to stuff like BackpackIt using Conduit, and that's a web app Jan 21 19:21:42 ok... Jan 21 19:21:57 so the notes would be stored on my PC and the nokia would access them Jan 21 19:22:28 is there a reason mono won't work Jan 21 19:23:30 it would require a porting effort which has not been undertaken Jan 21 19:23:56 mono was ported for some version of ITOS - not sure what the current state is Jan 21 19:24:05 I wouldn't be surprised to find out that an enterprising soul could get a slow version of mono up and running Jan 21 19:24:08 without JIT etc. Jan 21 19:24:45 it's also quite possibly enormous, at least for the libraries required to get a GUI app like tomboy fired up Jan 21 19:24:57 meh, not any worse than python Jan 21 19:25:16 do you know that, or are you speculating? Jan 21 19:25:32 the "standard" libraries for mono encompass a *lot* of functionality, much like Java Jan 21 19:25:57 (I don't know, I'm truly asking) Jan 21 19:27:34 scripting languages typically have very small libraries (byte-wise), in comparison to compiled languages, due to both the terseness of the language itself and the relative compactness of source code representation Jan 21 19:29:10 python is not a typical scripting language in that respect Jan 21 19:29:30 oh? Jan 21 19:29:36 it certainly seems relatively terse, to me Jan 21 19:29:50 though I confess that I don't know a lot of python, I skipped from perl to ruby, missing python altogether Jan 21 19:30:14 I seem to recall reading a comparison that analyzed the respective sizes and performances of mono, java, and python, the conclusion of which was that none of them were significantly different in either respect Jan 21 19:30:49 now that surprises me Jan 21 19:30:52 although I could be wrong, and those memories were planted in my brain by alien clown cyborgs Jan 21 19:31:02 mono and java should have a performance edge, at least in the commercial implementations which ahve good JITs Jan 21 19:31:25 or rather, .NET and java Jan 21 19:31:32 I don't know how mono itself compares, maybe it is similar Jan 21 19:32:15 python is faster for some things, slower for others. just like anything else Jan 21 19:32:20 and JITting is not a panacea Jan 21 19:32:30 and you can JIT python as well, or stay somewhere in between Jan 21 19:32:50 * Mousey thinks . o O ( psycho? ) Jan 21 19:32:54 psyco Jan 21 19:33:07 close enough though. but there are other things you can do as well Jan 21 19:33:23 yeah, FoF uses cx_freeze iirc Jan 21 19:33:36 the python model doesn't really allow the same kind of JITting as CLR/Java. Jan 21 19:33:38 JIT is certainly not a panacea Jan 21 19:33:47 but the commercial JITs really *are* pretty good Jan 21 19:33:48 but it allows other kinds of optimizations. Jan 21 19:33:56 I understand psyco is also quite good Jan 21 19:33:58 elb, except for their memory foorprint Jan 21 19:34:12 larger memory foorprint = more cache misses. Jan 21 19:34:14 sure Jan 21 19:34:51 I find that using a combination of python and C is powerful enough (as powerful as needs to be) Jan 21 19:35:27 and the step from C into asm isn't all that long, if necessary. Jan 21 19:37:13 yes, Ousterhout got that right Jan 21 19:37:29 C + scripting is a fantastic compromise Jan 21 19:37:34 if compromise is even the right word Jan 21 19:37:36 Tak have you tried -fprofile-arcs or -fprofile-generate ? Jan 21 19:37:48 with gcc? no. Jan 21 19:37:55 pupnik, I've found them lacking Jan 21 19:38:16 * Tak like ruby and C Jan 21 19:38:19 some gp2x dude claimed he got 15% boost on an emu Jan 21 19:38:22 although I'm really warming to vala Jan 21 19:38:24 elb, python is just more expressive and very good at getting overall structure and algos right. C is good for speed and data size when it matters. Jan 21 19:38:30 that sounds a bit optimistic but.. Jan 21 19:38:44 I've had about +-2% speedup/downs with my stuff. Jan 21 19:38:59 so far have to find anything where it would be a clear win Jan 21 19:39:37 czr, which should i use to auto-optimize? -lfprofile-generate or -fprofile-arcs Jan 21 19:39:38 I wrote/supported a wxpython-based application for a few years -- compiling to self-contained .EXE using PyInstaller. The distributable was roughly 4-5MB for a rather light application (1500 lines) Jan 21 19:39:46 not horrible, mind you. Jan 21 19:39:47 pupnik, both Jan 21 19:40:00 pupnik, profile-arcs has also other uses outside profiling. Jan 21 19:40:03 hence you need both. Jan 21 19:40:12 but not 'lite' Jan 21 19:40:13 for example gcov needs profile-arcs Jan 21 19:40:28 czr can i do those in the sb-armel and generate the profiling logs on the actual device? Jan 21 19:40:32 some sources say x86 only Jan 21 19:40:48 I believe Lua has a very light interpreter. Jan 21 19:40:52 Hi Jan 21 19:40:52 pupnik, hmm. I've only used x86 and x86-64, can't really say. although I imagine it should work Jan 21 19:40:57 i managedt to get some logs last year on the device, but i forgot all of it Jan 21 19:41:04 Lua is hot Jan 21 19:41:05 ok i'll write up some notes if i get it going Jan 21 19:41:07 pupnik, keep diaries :-) Jan 21 19:41:18 pupnik, if you can't recall, do ask, I'll dig around my diaries Jan 21 19:42:10 ok thanks :) Jan 21 19:42:34 make sure you keep your diaries in the fridge or it will curdle Jan 21 19:42:36 dosbox needs every bit of speed it can get Jan 21 19:42:44 I have close to zero optimization experience on arm (with gcc), so can't really help much. Jan 21 19:43:07 pupnik, have you profiled it? Jan 21 19:43:37 nope, i think i need to flash the oprofile kernel (and pray) Jan 21 19:43:50 there are other profiling tools as well Jan 21 19:44:08 but yeah, I guess it's slightly difficult on the device given the resources available Jan 21 19:44:17 * czr shrugs Jan 21 19:46:18 i wish the available Java stack (for n8x0) wasn't such a hodgepodge Jan 21 19:49:31 Hi Jan 21 19:49:56 * Tak wishes GNUtoN810 would quit saying "hi" and get on with the quotes Jan 21 19:49:58 hi gnu Jan 21 19:50:20 Have anyone crosscompiled boost for maemo? Jan 21 19:50:36 Does someone crosscompile for maemo? Jan 21 19:50:47 Hey lcuk_2 Jan 21 19:50:47 Err, indeed they do Jan 21 19:50:49 nevermind ;) Jan 21 19:52:06 libboost inz? i have one around from gregale builds Jan 21 19:52:46 ive seen some boost modules in the app manager Jan 21 19:53:05 inz :-) Jan 21 19:53:18 duno which pill i was taking but i know i saw something (there was a typo in its description) Jan 21 19:54:12 lcuk_2: are you talking about gtmm booster? Jan 21 19:54:27 possibly Jan 21 19:54:44 I need lib boost 'boost.org' Jan 21 19:54:47 as i said i know i saw one or another in there - i only remember it because of the typo Jan 21 19:55:52 I'm readying to DL a VMWare appliance (for scratchbox) Anyone care to advise on which is better: Jan 21 19:56:31 ls -1 libboost-* |wc -l Jan 21 19:56:32 27 Jan 21 19:56:48 a) loading Ubuntu entirely, or b) using an appliance (Would be in VMWare Fusion either way, that is) Jan 21 19:56:50 gforce, get latest from idnt Jan 21 19:57:02 GNUtoN810, yer, it was the: gtkmm-booster "Boster modules for gtkmm" Jan 21 19:57:16 where is that again pupnik? thx Jan 21 19:57:16 czr, got confused Jan 21 19:57:21 czr, too tired, I guess Jan 21 19:57:25 inz, I blame it on the clock Jan 21 19:57:26 Ok, thank you. :) Jan 21 19:57:27 indeed. Jan 21 19:58:03 * lcuk_2 apologises for getting your hopes up Jan 21 19:58:09 !google maemo+vmware+appliance Jan 21 19:58:45 Ah , todday i ve tryed xmame on my n810...but seems too slow.. Jan 21 19:58:46 Does anyone know how to setup an n800 for remote ssh? I had it working and then rebooted it an now it doesn't work. I don't know what I might have done differently. I have flashed with R&D mode. I can ssh locally on the device. But I get "no route to host" when I ssh from my laptop Jan 21 19:58:47 yep i saw two , just didn't recognize "idnt" Jan 21 20:00:05 Ds Jan 21 20:00:07 dskippy, keep it simple, i assume you can ping the n8x0 from your laptop Jan 21 20:00:46 lcuk_2, actually, no I can't. It's not responding to ping. But I can ssh from the n800 to my laptop so it's on the network just fine. Jan 21 20:00:52 http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ gforce i think that's the one you want Jan 21 20:01:04 (using it here) Jan 21 20:01:17 ^^^ thats the one i have as well, not that i can use it so far :S Jan 21 20:01:28 thanks comrades Jan 21 20:01:52 dskippy, are you running wireless or usb net? Jan 21 20:02:13 wireless Jan 21 20:03:25 sounds like a configuration problem with your router maybe? Jan 21 20:04:50 lcuk_2, it could be. I guess I'm doing everything right on the n800. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything to obviously wrong. Jan 21 20:04:54 Thanks for helping. Jan 21 20:05:37 theres not a great deal you can do wrong with the machine, just keep things simple and test in baby steps Jan 21 20:15:16 usually the best way to solve networking problems is to go layer by layer Jan 21 20:25:25 anyone here using vdr with streamdev-plugin? Jan 21 20:53:36 jsmith, got time for one more quick question, if you're still around? Jan 21 20:54:08 Hello Jan 21 20:55:23 lophyte: Yeah, I"m here Jan 21 20:55:58 jsmith, quick question about asterisk, I've got my n800 and my connection to FWD set to 'canreinvite=no' and yet asterisk insists on attempting a native bridge... Jan 21 20:56:20 A native bridge isn't the same as a re-invite Jan 21 20:56:26 ah, I thought that's what it was Jan 21 20:57:33 I'll look into native bridges then... Jan 21 20:58:12 Q: I followed the instruction to boot from mmc. It seems to get almost to the end of the boot process (boot slash with progress bar up to the end) and then reboots. Is it a known problem? Jan 21 20:59:22 You're in a reboot loop Jan 21 20:59:28 could be a lot of explanations for that. Jan 21 21:01:27 well it goes back to the boot menu and from there if I select 'flash' all is good Jan 21 21:02:15 IMHO it looks like something on the root fs I cloned is broken, but of course whtever it is, is fine when booting from flash Jan 21 21:02:15 lophyte: Native bridge simply means it's a SIP-to-SIP bridge Jan 21 21:02:31 jsmith, ah, okay, so that's probably not the issue then Jan 21 21:06:02 the other question is: when the bootmenu installed can one invoke the "usb update mode"? Jan 21 21:22:35 do the N800 and N810 have a different amount of RAM from each other? Jan 21 21:23:36 I think it's the same in each 128mb Jan 21 21:24:10 No, no difference in RAM. Jan 21 21:24:15 kick ass Jan 21 21:24:32 ah I see where I went wrong, the top post on planet.maemo.org seems to be talking about storage space Jan 21 21:24:48 I always thought of memory being RAM Jan 21 21:24:49 czr: do you get a .gcda file after building with -fprofile-generate? Jan 21 21:25:21 pupnik, no, you get it after running the program that has been built with profile-generate and profile-arcs Jan 21 21:25:33 that's the file that holds the run-time collected profiling data Jan 21 21:25:35 ok maybe i need profile-arcs also Jan 21 21:25:38 which is used by profile-use Jan 21 21:25:39 yeah Jan 21 21:25:52 sorry i meant after building and running Jan 21 21:25:57 ah, yes. Jan 21 21:26:10 man gcc , search for 'profile-use' Jan 21 21:26:15 it tells you what you need Jan 21 21:26:38 if you run your program multiple times, all the runs' data will be combined in the .gcda files Jan 21 21:26:52 so if you need different datas for example, it's pretty simple. Jan 21 21:29:05 ahh You must use -fprofile-generate both when compiling and when linking your program. Jan 21 21:29:29 so i need to add -fprofile-generate to my LDFLAGS? Jan 21 21:30:10 yes Jan 21 21:30:26 or into PROF_LDFLAGS which you use in the profiling target Jan 21 21:30:29 ymmv obviously. Jan 21 21:30:39 your final build must not use profile-generate. Jan 21 21:30:39 thx Jan 21 21:30:42 yes Jan 21 21:30:51 PROF_LDFLAGS was just a suggestion for the name Jan 21 21:31:14 btw, you might also be interested in gcov, since you're playing with gcda Jan 21 21:31:32 it's a code coverage information collecting/reporting tool Jan 21 21:31:44 comes with recent gccs Jan 21 21:31:56 although it's slightly sneaky and not very well documented. Jan 21 21:32:00 ok, another app complained aboug missing __gcov when i enabled -fprofile-generate Jan 21 21:32:17 so i tried adding -lgcov to the linking step but that didn't work for some reason Jan 21 21:32:34 but dosbox isn't complaining about that Jan 21 21:34:16 pupnik, hmm. just profile-generate shouldn't need gcov. weird. Jan 21 21:34:21 also czr, i saw instruction on a blog to use -O0 with -fprofile-generate, do you know if that is correct? Jan 21 21:34:23 maybe you had additional flags? Jan 21 21:34:53 hmm. not sure about the -O0. not a bad idea probably Jan 21 21:34:54 don't think so but it was just a test case, not the interesting program Jan 21 21:34:59 but I haven't tested the difference. Jan 21 21:35:13 ok ty Jan 21 21:35:53 You must use -fprofile-generate both when compiling and Jan 21 21:35:54 when linking your program. Jan 21 21:35:54 Jan 21 21:35:56 oops Jan 21 21:35:59 Is there anyone that can help with optimizing a SDL game for speed on a N800? Jan 21 21:36:02 paste not working from vmware Jan 21 21:36:14 thp_: did you have a specific question? Jan 21 21:36:15 * pupnik whistles and looks at his feet Jan 21 21:36:24 * Tak looks at pupnik's feet also Jan 21 21:36:31 * czr looks into pupnik's pocket Jan 21 21:36:47 Tak: well, it works well and everything, but it is just a bit too slow/choppy Jan 21 21:37:06 i wonder if i can use some special flags (HWSURFACE, etc..) that will make the game faster Jan 21 21:37:16 is this an app you wrote, or something you've ported? Jan 21 21:37:43 it's a game i initially wrote for the desktop and am now porting to maemo Jan 21 21:37:46 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=239256362519105104&hl=de Jan 21 21:38:22 that's roughly how it looks now. everything works but it could be a bit faster. i already updated the code to use SDL_UpdateRect instead of SDL_Flip and double buffering Jan 21 21:38:27 cool Jan 21 21:38:38 yeah, updaterect is a bit better Jan 21 21:38:56 iirc there's no magic flag to accelerate things Jan 21 21:39:21 you're not updaterecting the whole screen are you? Jan 21 21:39:27 have you tried operating in yuv colorspace? Jan 21 21:39:57 i'm not updaterecting the whole screen, but i could optimize the code a bit to detect overlapping rects that i queued for updating Jan 21 21:40:05 no, how do i go about operating in yuv colorspace? Jan 21 21:41:18 are you storing your bitmaps as 32bit rgba and letting sdl convert to 16 bit? Jan 21 21:41:45 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/31714?do=post_view_threaded Jan 21 21:42:07 i'm using SDL_DisplayFormatAlpha() to convert the bitmaps to the native display format (or at least that's what i believe libsdl does when i call displayformatalpha) Jan 21 21:43:09 One small question, is there a free equivalent of wayfinder other than maemo mapper which offers offline navigation? Jan 21 21:43:13 and the bpp i set by first querying using SDL_GetVideoInfo Jan 21 21:53:36 thp_: if you want to see something small, simple and fast, check out http://pupnik.dea/liens-1.0.2_Nokia.tgz Jan 21 21:53:46 sorry Jan 21 21:53:58 http://pupnik.de/aliens-1.0.2_Nokia.tgz Jan 21 21:55:06 thanks, i'll ahve a look Jan 21 21:55:42 can I just copy ttfs in .fonts to install them? Jan 21 22:04:11 michele_: did it work? Jan 21 22:05:19 pupnik, don't know yet, I can't find xterm-enhanced Jan 21 22:06:04 os2007 or os2008? did you search on gronmeyer? Jan 21 22:11:59 i just tried to install comic.ttf (yes i know its crap - thats the point i needed to see a difference) and ran "fc-cache -f" to refresh cache. its listed as an available font in fbreader but it isnt working... just rebooting now Jan 21 22:14:41 arghhhh my eyes Jan 21 22:14:48 after a reboot it works (unfortunately) Jan 21 22:15:19 I want profont in xterm Jan 21 22:15:38 it was just a check on the ttf instructions i spotted Jan 21 22:21:28 ohh Jan 21 22:21:33 great Jan 21 22:21:43 in xchat it works Jan 21 22:21:52 without restarting Jan 21 22:22:28 * jsmith wanders away... Jan 21 22:23:51 Someone goes to BossaConference? Jan 21 22:27:38 hi michele_ Jan 21 22:39:46 hi maddler Jan 21 22:40:47 : I followed the instruction to boot from mmc. It seems to get almost to the end of the boot process (boot slash with progress bar up to the end) and then reboots. Is it a known problem? Jan 21 22:40:53 >.> Jan 21 22:41:04 hoping some good soul may be listening Jan 21 22:42:09 Try again, Tama^2. Jan 21 22:42:13 You did something wrong. Jan 21 22:42:47 from the wiki: 1 The first time I tried this on my N800 it led to continuous reboots 30-90 seconds after booting. Trying it a second time on a clean install (directly after flashing and erasing everything already on the device) worked fine. Jan 21 22:43:11 I could try again but I do not want to do a fresh install AGAIN... Jan 21 22:43:35 Eh, you probably shouldn't have started in the first place, then. :P Jan 21 22:43:44 the reason must be some kind of reference to the root device Jan 21 22:43:54 >.<; Jan 21 22:47:35 unf... nobody knows how to change the font in osso-xterm? Jan 21 22:52:19 michele_: tried from settings? Jan 21 22:52:40 I wish I knew, michele_. Jan 21 22:52:45 menu -> tools -> settings Jan 21 22:52:46 Monaco 9 FTW. :D Jan 21 22:52:58 maddler, it's only a few presets. Jan 21 22:53:09 yes, but I have only the fixed choiches there... Jan 21 22:53:29 copy you new fonts in /home/user/.fonts :) Jan 21 22:53:32 booo me. not getting any profile info Jan 21 22:53:44 you->your Jan 21 22:53:46 I did Jan 21 22:53:51 it was working on os2007 Jan 21 22:53:53 michele_: normal terminals support only fixed fonts ... Jan 21 22:54:02 maddler, OS2007 was a different xterm. :P Jan 21 22:54:09 An arguably less crappy xterm. Jan 21 22:54:10 xchat sees them, the terminal not Jan 21 22:54:19 GeneralAntilles: I know... Jan 21 22:54:26 j0tt, not width. Jan 21 22:54:31 Selection, j0tt. Jan 21 22:54:38 GeneralAntilles: and I have to confess I prefer the 2007 unpatched one Jan 21 22:54:57 i have custom fonts in the osso-xterm settings .. Jan 21 22:54:59 so no way general? Jan 21 22:55:00 The OS2007 maemo hacker's version with the sidebar has been the best so far. Jan 21 22:55:18 I'm sure there's a way, michele_, I just don't know it. Jan 21 22:55:38 maybe in gconf... Jan 21 23:03:14 yay :) Jan 21 23:03:21 * michele_ did it Jan 21 23:03:32 Magic solution? Jan 21 23:03:39 magic wand? :D Jan 21 23:03:59 gconftool --set /apps/osso/xterm/font_name --type string ProFontWindows Jan 21 23:04:45 hmmm... I've just tried the .fonts stuff Jan 21 23:04:52 and it actually worked :) Jan 21 23:05:18 since it is not xterm related byt window manager Jan 21 23:05:54 it's fontconfig Jan 21 23:05:58 eh? osso-xterm font is just tools/settings Jan 21 23:06:12 * lcuk_2 can see and use comic sans Jan 21 23:06:22 (os2008 though) Jan 21 23:06:30 yup... but I mean... xterm only get available fonts from the system... Jan 21 23:06:31 * michele_ can't Jan 21 23:06:52 so once they are available its using them... Jan 21 23:07:41 michele_, i did the following: copied ttf into system. ran "fc-cache -f" to refresh cache. fonts were then listed but not usable. i rebooted and it works everywhere Jan 21 23:08:35 * lcuk_2 hates mx comic sans but its so distinctive its hard to miss Jan 21 23:08:56 /home/user/.fonts, lcuk_2? Jan 21 23:09:03 comic sans is the worst font I've ever seen! :D Jan 21 23:09:09 yes sorry thats where i put it. i had to create the folder though Jan 21 23:09:17 lcuk_2: true Jan 21 23:09:51 i followed the instructions for installing foreign language support fonts ( i used the hebrew instructions ... http://maemo.org/community/wiki/hebrew/ ) Jan 21 23:10:42 well... it works just like gnome, and xchat can see the new font, the terminal can't Jan 21 23:10:55 have you rebooted? Jan 21 23:11:07 I guess I should just try a reboot Jan 21 23:11:19 but it shouldn't be needed Jan 21 23:11:19 lol - linux gets more and more like windows everyday Jan 21 23:11:36 no :) Jan 21 23:11:40 Oh, joy . . . reboot loop. Jan 21 23:11:50 they didnt work for me in fbreader until after i rebooted .. Jan 21 23:11:58 I'm sure it can be done withou Jan 21 23:12:15 GeneralAntilles, install the recent rtcomm stuff? Jan 21 23:12:17 it's rtcomm General Jan 21 23:12:21 prob can,. but is it worth a whole diagnostic session to work out when it should just work? Jan 21 23:12:29 Yeah, but it booted fine just after I installed it. <_< Jan 21 23:12:30 GeneralAntilles: installed rtcom? :) Jan 21 23:12:47 eh Jan 21 23:12:53 well then why did you break it? Jan 21 23:12:55 * michele_ surrenders Jan 21 23:13:01 hehe Jan 21 23:13:30 GeneralAntilles: I am waiting for the next update before trying to install it again :) Jan 21 23:13:39 2.1-15 looks broken... somehow... Jan 21 23:14:32 * GeneralAntilles goes to disable the watchdog. Jan 21 23:14:53 I say this to everyone...but you should really just boot from SD Jan 21 23:15:08 Meh, too much damn work. Jan 21 23:15:13 I've had 2 reboot loops. Jan 21 23:15:19 omap-wp caused to reboot as well... :( Jan 21 23:15:19 Hardly worth the time investment for that. Jan 21 23:15:53 no-omap-wd Jan 21 23:15:55 one rsync, one quick initfs flash, one config file edit, and you're done Jan 21 23:16:00 I had to disable that... Jan 21 23:16:18 johnx, to a FAT32? :P Jan 21 23:16:37 why don't you run your cards as Ext3? Jan 21 23:17:00 the tablet seems to see them fine in 2008OS without extra effort Jan 21 23:17:19 ok now that I have profont in xterm I can go to bed Jan 21 23:17:22 'nite Jan 21 23:17:26 johnx: yes .. "one quick..." IF it works :P Jan 21 23:17:39 ;_; Jan 21 23:17:42 Because I put my cards in a lot of things without Ext3 support. Jan 21 23:17:42 'night michele_ Jan 21 23:18:03 windows and mac can support them Jan 21 23:18:08 I guess cameras can be a problem Jan 21 23:18:19 Tama^2, did it not work for you? Jan 21 23:18:39 even if it fails all you have to do is *not turn the device off* and try again Jan 21 23:19:06 I had suuccessfully installed rtcomm a week or 2 ago, but am confused about where I should be watching re news of updates? Jan 21 23:19:20 it boots from the mmc, gets up to the boot splash, progress bar is 100 and then gets stuck there Jan 21 23:19:30 until the watchdog forces a reboot Jan 21 23:20:03 hmm, how did you copy the files to the card? rsync or tar? Jan 21 23:20:17 chrisak: my update came up in the app manager Jan 21 23:20:23 johnx: tar Jan 21 23:20:52 you installed the gnu version of tar right? or did you use the builtin busybox tar? Jan 21 23:21:08 not the builtin Jan 21 23:21:28 I read the wiki and it mentioned it being an x86 elf bin... Jan 21 23:22:01 eh? Jan 21 23:22:47 somewhere on the wiki it says not to use the builtin tar or something like taht Jan 21 23:22:55 right Jan 21 23:23:01 but what's this about x86 elf bin? Jan 21 23:23:03 Tama: thank you, I just realized I had the req. respositories disabled. Feeling foolish. Jan 21 23:23:44 johnx: I must have mixed up two different pieces of info there, never mind :) Jan 21 23:24:12 that's ok. I just wanted to check that I wasn't just being dumb Jan 21 23:24:55 I have not been able to detect a simultaneous dpad press and keyboard press on the N810. Is this a hardware issue or a SDL problem? Jan 21 23:26:26 at least fn+dpad seem to work in general. Jan 21 23:27:49 johnx: I am trying with rsync now Jan 21 23:27:51 how do you detect that j0tt ? Jan 21 23:28:15 Alright, back up. Jan 21 23:28:17 pupnik: just via xkbd settings (bound to pgup/down and esc) Jan 21 23:28:42 Tama^2, I just used rsync, and it seems to work fine here Jan 21 23:29:10 well I will report back in 5 minutes or so :P Jan 21 23:29:15 I missed getting the /dev directory the first time though Jan 21 23:29:30 GeneralAntilles: with watchdog/apt-get --purge rtcom? Jan 21 23:29:49 Yeah Jan 21 23:30:01 well, apt-get remove rtcomm* Jan 21 23:30:08 yup... Jan 21 23:30:21 did you disabled both WDs? Jan 21 23:30:23 Anybody know how to turn off anti-aliasing in xterm? Jan 21 23:30:30 Started with omap, didn't work Jan 21 23:30:33 then added lifeguard Jan 21 23:30:39 ok... Jan 21 23:31:20 I don't think you can disable aa Jan 21 23:31:22 GeneralAntilles: you are a big fan of meamo-mapper right? How do you get POI to download? it seems the stock configuration does not work Jan 21 23:31:34 That sucks Jan 21 23:31:45 aa with a fixed-width looks stupid. Jan 21 23:31:46 GeneralAntilles: use a bitmap font Jan 21 23:32:01 * jott likes terminus Jan 21 23:32:08 Tama^2, just download them? Not sure. Jan 21 23:32:17 jott, know of a ttf to bitmap converter? :D Jan 21 23:32:24 jott: I was just going to test it :D Jan 21 23:32:31 I use terminus on my laptop :D Jan 21 23:32:48 If it's not Monaco 9, it's not worth it to me. :P Jan 21 23:32:54 GeneralAntilles: hm i wrote one but not for bdf :) Jan 21 23:33:21 just use terminus and you will be satisfied ;) Jan 21 23:34:06 Unlikely. Jan 21 23:34:15 small ttf rendered with 1-bit looks crap in most cases Jan 21 23:37:00 rebooting... Jan 21 23:37:15 will see if terminus is working :) Jan 21 23:38:18 has anyone had any luck adding a pipe (|) character to the toolbar shortcut in osso-xterm? Jan 21 23:38:23 yeah! Jan 21 23:38:40 GeneralAntilles: terminus looks great! :D Jan 21 23:38:52 AlphaLux: yeah I did Jan 21 23:38:55 scp ter-*8859-1.* 10.10.200.118:~/.fonts/ Jan 21 23:38:56 :D Jan 21 23:39:32 AlphaLux: use the X11 keysym 'bar' Jan 21 23:39:43 yeah, terminus is so nice on a high dpi display :) Jan 21 23:40:34 jott: indeed... I used to use Lucida Typewriter but Terminus looks better IMHO Jan 21 23:42:15 hello folks! Jan 21 23:45:15 heya Jan 21 23:45:20 guys, ive been looking to change my default start path for xterm (os2008) but am getting lost. is there a way to do it? Jan 21 23:45:34 .profile? Jan 21 23:45:41 might be the simplest way Jan 21 23:45:43 .dontknow Jan 21 23:45:48 haha Jan 21 23:46:02 let me try it Jan 21 23:46:21 thx Jan 21 23:46:29 hey guys, besides the kbd and the internal storage, is there any big diference between n800 and n810? Jan 21 23:47:04 a tiny gps built in Jan 21 23:47:39 Transflective screen. Jan 21 23:47:45 and the price as well :) Jan 21 23:47:53 cool factor Jan 21 23:48:24 single direction camera facing user Jan 21 23:48:43 instead of rotatable on 800 Jan 21 23:49:15 yes... size is much better... it makes the device feel more comfortable in your hands... Jan 21 23:49:22 auto brightness adjustment Jan 21 23:49:37 ^ which is more of a liability. Jan 21 23:49:39 and also about the keyboard... I only realized how useful it is after a few days of intensive use Jan 21 23:49:54 I'm using n810 a lot more than n800 Jan 21 23:50:27 ive even stopped asking for a tab key now i can dev from big pc and just got on with using it Jan 21 23:51:03 I miss a ' key :) Jan 21 23:51:09 * lcuk thinks ssh and scp are amazing Jan 21 23:51:25 but can't find the right key to replace :) Jan 21 23:51:32 lcuk: and screen? ;) Jan 21 23:51:34 ' is a direct key on here Jan 21 23:51:45 here? Jan 21 23:51:49 :) Jan 21 23:51:56 after hacking the psp forever, and trying to get it to do what I want, the internet tablet is awesome Jan 21 23:52:01 no, the screen on 810 is a pleasure to use Jan 21 23:52:15 no... I mean Screen :) Jan 21 23:52:16 not the LCD :) Jan 21 23:53:01 well then i havent been given the pleasure, what is screen Jan 21 23:53:29 <_> Jan 21 23:53:30 it's great, allows you to have multiple terminals in one terminal...kind of hard to explain Jan 21 23:53:38 AlphaLux: right Jan 21 23:53:39 think of tabs in firefox Jan 21 23:53:49 but in txt mode :) Jan 21 23:53:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Screen Jan 21 23:53:51 but for shells Jan 21 23:54:08 it changed the way I connect remotely :) Jan 21 23:54:09 and you can logout and keep them all running, great for servers and remote stuff Jan 21 23:54:18 ^ Jan 21 23:54:28 i am ahppy with 1 for now, still need training wheels :) Jan 21 23:54:30 I only ssh to my "proxy" and then use screen to jump to other systems :) Jan 21 23:54:34 Detatching and re-attaching is great. Jan 21 23:54:43 screen is great! pimp your .screenrc now ;) Jan 21 23:54:44 definitely Jan 21 23:54:47 GeneralAntilles: as well as sharing :) Jan 21 23:54:58 you can share? Jan 21 23:55:01 didn't know that Jan 21 23:55:30 screen is probably one of the most under-utilized pieces of software on the planet. Jan 21 23:55:45 agreed Jan 21 23:56:00 great to know about all that stuff ,folks Jan 21 23:56:05 just because people don't know about it I think Jan 21 23:56:06 thank you very much Jan 21 23:56:13 but the N800 seems perfect to mee Jan 21 23:56:14 me Jan 21 23:56:20 s/mee/me Jan 21 23:56:21 N810 can be dangerous. Jan 21 23:56:30 heh yeah for example, i display free disk space and network traffic in the screen statusline ;) Jan 21 23:56:33 alpha, any luck with default path or has all this fapping about maemo took you offtrack Jan 21 23:56:34 GeneralAntilles: yup... until you don't discover it! and then you cannot survive w/o it! Jan 21 23:56:38 pupnik: great to see you! Jan 21 23:56:42 I find myself editing scripts/configs and doing linuxy command-line stuff while walking around Jan 21 23:56:46 welcomeback NeoStrider_ :) Jan 21 23:56:49 jott: as well as CPU Jan 21 23:56:56 lcuk, I sent you like 3 msgs you didn't get them I suppose? Jan 21 23:56:57 yeah.. sure cpu too ;) Jan 21 23:56:59 screen is great Jan 21 23:57:14 hahahha...you cant just stop being a hacker while in the middle of the street Jan 21 23:57:15 pupnik, yeah I hear you Jan 21 23:57:23 I have a hack so that Ctrl-PageUp reverse searches for my prompt, so I can see where the output of the last command started Jan 21 23:57:32 bindkey "ESC[5\^" eval copy "stuff kk?---------(\015\^jlllll" Jan 21 23:57:35 ahhh xchat on 8x0 cant see other chans/msgs Jan 21 23:57:51 ah, haven't tried xchat yet Jan 21 23:58:01 What, lcuk? Jan 21 23:58:02 * aspiers is trying ERC Jan 21 23:58:07 clever aspiers Jan 21 23:58:14 ts nice but i didnt know i was missing stuff Jan 21 23:58:36 the +/- keys cycles through tabs in xchat. Jan 21 23:58:50 gen, i have made it almost fullscreen and removed chan list from display. it doesnt flash anywhere Jan 21 23:58:59 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ title says it all - adding pipe and tab to the N810 keyboard Jan 21 23:59:02 Ah, right. Jan 21 23:59:03 pupnik: I also wrote a patch so that 'number +1' moves a window right in the window list, and -1 for left Jan 21 23:59:09 Set the toolbar notifications. Jan 21 23:59:26 lcuk, put in brief, you can create a file called .profile in your home directory, that script will be executed every time you start a shell Jan 21 23:59:49 in which i can cd to where i need. thanks Jan 22 00:00:12 i will do it in a bit Jan 22 00:00:17 :) Jan 22 00:00:20 no problem Jan 22 00:01:36 810 keyboard, bright in places, dark in others. some of the blue chrs are not fully visible. damn annoying Jan 22 00:02:49 right, vanishing for a bit. thanks Jan 22 00:02:50 how many people here want to donate to zodttd to help him buy a N800? Jan 22 00:03:01 :) Jan 22 00:03:17 What is zodttd gonna give me in return? Jan 22 00:03:19 pupnik: Im in need of some donations too ;-P Jan 22 00:03:44 I almost broke down and got the n800, but I held out until after Christmas for the 810 Jan 22 00:03:45 GeneralAntilles: a playstation in your pocket? Jan 22 00:03:47 any1 from canada here? Jan 22 00:04:18 they use computers in canada? Jan 22 00:04:24 NeoStrider_, Ohio, pretty close, but not Jan 22 00:04:29 They have internet in Canada? Jan 22 00:04:46 well... we have it in Italy... :D Jan 22 00:04:50 well... almost :D Jan 22 00:04:53 in Brazil too =-P Jan 22 00:04:56 Wait, I did that wrong. They have electricity in Canada? Jan 22 00:05:10 maddler: we have something we call internet...if its the same internet you guys have, I dont know Jan 22 00:05:28 be nice to Canada Jan 22 00:05:34 their dollar is worth more than hours Jan 22 00:05:35 GeneralAntilles: so , asking about N800 availability in canada may be worthless? Jan 22 00:05:36 erk Jan 22 00:05:37 ours Jan 22 00:06:10 oh wait, no, they're below parity again Jan 22 00:06:25 I say they get a bye until it's under $0.90 Jan 22 00:06:51 I say it's time to annex. Jan 22 00:09:07 <|tbb|> what do i need tor run dbus-send commands from commandline, any additional packets Jan 22 00:11:44 I just bought some canadian dollars Jan 22 00:11:49 they're more expensive Jan 22 00:12:15 so I plan to get a N800 when I get there Jan 22 00:12:31 but its getting hard to device between N800+Eee PC or N810 Jan 22 00:12:45 the current exchange rate says US$1 = CA$1.03 Jan 22 00:13:16 my eyes keep trying to focus on the darn idnt xephyr background Jan 22 00:13:41 you visiting canada for fun or business NeoStrider_ ? Jan 22 00:14:03 student exchange program Jan 22 00:14:13 improve my english skills Jan 22 00:14:40 and maybe look for some university to have a sandwich master graduation Jan 22 00:14:59 (unoficial mission in canada: get a N8x0 hehe) Jan 22 00:17:24 anyone find a ruby package for chinook? I see only bora on garage Jan 22 00:17:43 congrats NeoStrider_ :) Jan 22 00:17:55 =-) Jan 22 00:18:23 now I want some opinion from you guys? Jan 22 00:18:25 : Jan 22 00:18:30 s/?/: ;-) Jan 22 00:18:43 about First Person Shooter control on the devices Jan 22 00:18:52 what you guys think it should be like? Jan 22 00:18:58 See Quake 2, it's fantasmagastic. Jan 22 00:19:13 damn, I'm so used to kbd, mouse..it would be hard without a mouse Jan 22 00:19:18 ever since pipeline implemented my stylus control idea, it rules :) Jan 22 00:20:01 he did a great job - looking with the stylus works extremely well. on the n810 the problem is jumping and shooting while strafing/moving Jan 22 00:20:20 ah yeah I guess you could think of something like the nintendo ds Jan 22 00:21:41 I cant see it... I just have a 770 Jan 22 00:22:02 for me, almost any action game is out of the question with these controls. strategy / puzzle / rpg is fine tho Jan 22 00:22:25 NeoStrider_: his quake1 runs ok on 770 Jan 22 00:22:34 where to get it!?!?!?! Jan 22 00:23:04 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10064 Quake 1 for 800 and 770 Jan 22 00:27:24 downloading Jan 22 00:31:02 ok... time to go play Advance Wars on my nds! :D Jan 22 00:31:17 what the heck... i don't even REMEMBER creating autotools / configure for this game Jan 22 00:33:56 I warned you about coding drunk, pupnik. Jan 22 00:34:46 hehe Jan 22 00:34:50 NeoStrider_, you're from Brazil? Jan 22 00:35:09 GeneralAntilles: drunk codding rox! Jan 22 00:35:14 Xamusk: yes! Jan 22 00:35:23 Xamusk: Rio de Janeiro Jan 22 00:35:28 and u? Jan 22 00:35:33 NeoStrider_, me too :D Jan 22 00:35:43 RJ? Jan 22 00:36:23 yes Jan 22 00:38:50 I'm scrambling to get myself an N8X0 too Jan 22 00:39:54 Xamusk: "qual bairro" ? Jan 22 00:40:18 NeoStrider_, botafogo, you? Jan 22 00:40:23 Niterói Jan 22 00:40:37 Xamusk: do you have any project? Jan 22 00:40:42 (are you a developer?) Jan 22 00:40:48 sort of :D Jan 22 00:40:57 amateur stuff Jan 22 00:41:10 nothing really useful Jan 22 00:41:38 show me =-) Jan 22 00:42:24 I've got nothing online Jan 22 00:42:33 by amateur I mean home stuff Jan 22 00:42:35 but what is it? Jan 22 00:42:42 mine is amateur too Jan 22 00:42:59 Im (still) working on a armagetron-like game Jan 22 00:43:06 http://angstron.garage.maemo.org Jan 22 00:43:10 I was doing a visualization software for my wife some days ago, but stopped it Jan 22 00:43:41 by the way, I don't use maemo, as I don't have a N8X0 yet Jan 22 00:43:48 they're too expensive here Jan 22 00:43:56 1000 reais Jan 22 00:44:07 way expensive Jan 22 00:44:11 whoa, I haven't found for less than 1300 Jan 22 00:44:18 wow Jan 22 00:44:34 anyway, 1000 is still to much for me now Jan 22 00:44:34 got a 770 from developer device program, about 2 years ago Jan 22 00:44:42 but I need a newer device Jan 22 00:44:46 cool Jan 22 00:44:49 the N8x0 are way diferent Jan 22 00:45:20 and my focus is mostly maemo-centric Jan 22 00:45:26 but I've done other stuff too Jan 22 00:45:40 what is that vis-software you've done? 3D? Jan 22 00:46:08 yes Jan 22 00:46:21 cool Jan 22 00:46:31 I tried to use pygtk and soya Jan 22 00:46:36 Im working on 3D for mobile for some time Jan 22 00:46:46 I did my own engine in C++ ;-) Jan 22 00:47:02 too bad nokia doesn't have acceleration hardware Jan 22 00:47:19 I think it does, actually Jan 22 00:47:22 but no drivers Jan 22 00:47:22 anyway, now I'm a bit more focused on electronics Jan 22 00:47:27 oh Jan 22 00:47:50 what's a hw worth if there are no drivers, specially not even from the manufacturer Jan 22 00:48:01 my fun is actully reinventing the wheel Jan 22 00:48:44 woo got my first profile data out in 2008. bizarre the .gcda needs to write to /scratchbox/ccache/tmp.hash.maemo-sdk.23020.gcda file Jan 22 00:49:02 so that dir needs to be created on the device and user-writeable Jan 22 00:50:35 NeoStrider_, I even got someone to sell me a used N800, but have no way to ship it from the USA to me Jan 22 00:51:23 but you have anything in mind for the devices? or just its coolness factor that appels to you? Jan 22 00:52:04 i think ppl into 3d should definitely look at NeoStrider_ 's stuff :) Jan 22 00:52:40 NeoStrider_, first I want an eBook reader, then a schedule, then comes the coolness factor to be able to make my own apps for it (specially since it supports python), then I would like to learn usb to use the device as a controller in host mode Jan 22 00:52:43 pupnik: not that much..Im still researching a new algorithm for my grad thesis, so things change too fast in my code =-) Jan 22 00:53:33 but it has a advantage over other algorithms ,like BSP and portals...Im lazy, so Im researching an algorithm that must be easy to code Jan 22 00:55:11 NeoStrider_, computer science? Jan 22 00:55:19 yes Jan 22 00:55:20 UFF Jan 22 00:55:24 and u? Jan 22 00:55:43 electronic engineering, IME Jan 22 00:55:49 way cool! Jan 22 00:55:53 anyone u know any phone help channel? Jan 22 00:56:09 anyone know phone help channel? Jan 22 00:56:24 kvin_: ??? Jan 22 00:56:31 i should set-up a pay-channel on my home line Jan 22 00:56:36 what kind of help? and repeating stuff is not a good way to get help Jan 22 00:56:37 i mean a help channel Jan 22 00:56:43 for phones Jan 22 00:56:44 NeoStrider_, last year I went to a symposium in UFF Jan 22 00:56:50 sorry Jan 22 00:57:03 help for error Jan 22 00:57:09 Xamusk: hummm...what was it Jan 22 00:57:14 technical problem Jan 22 00:57:34 NeoStrider_, it was about automation Jan 22 00:58:11 I cant really remember..but it must be from the Engeenering School Jan 22 00:58:17 yes it was Jan 22 00:58:22 Computers Institute is more theorical Jan 22 00:58:23 ah Jan 22 00:58:40 NeoStrider_, do you take classes from prof Nelson? Jan 22 00:58:41 but I got my hands dirty on a robotic arm + 8051 ;-) Jan 22 00:58:45 not really Jan 22 00:58:56 I think he teaches Calculus there Jan 22 00:59:44 NeoStrider_, a robotic arm? cool... I'm still learning electronics, and I'm using avr at home Jan 22 00:59:57 I had classes with prof John Reed Jan 22 01:00:06 do you know him? Jan 22 01:00:08 Xamusk: I do? Jan 22 01:00:11 but I'm still perfecting the methods to make PCBs Jan 22 01:01:00 nelson, another nelson? Jan 22 01:01:27 well, I'm the first (and best, if I may say) russ nelson on the 'net. Jan 22 01:01:31 All others are imposters. Jan 22 01:01:33 hahahhaha Jan 22 01:01:47 nelson: I guess you dont teach calculus back in Brazil, Right? Jan 22 01:01:47 google for "russ nelson" Jan 22 01:02:13 errr, no, that would be someone else. But it does help explain why Brazilians always expect 'nelson' to speak portuguese Jan 22 01:02:47 nelson is very common name among us Jan 22 01:02:52 but as a first name Jan 22 01:03:23 yep, I had already figured that out. Nao~ falo portuguese. Jan 22 01:03:42 that would be "não falo português" Jan 22 01:03:47 :) Jan 22 01:04:46 Xamusk: give him a break...he does know we dont speak spanish...that's almost a miracle! Jan 22 01:05:09 haha Jan 22 01:05:09 NeoStrider_, I know, but I'm picky ;) Jan 22 01:05:19 Xamusk: oh, yeah, typing portuguese with a portuguesean keyboard, that's almost like cheating. Jan 22 01:05:25 hahahha Jan 22 01:05:45 try coding a college work on a english kbd ;-P Jan 22 01:05:54 NeoStrider_: I thought all Brazilians spoke Spanish ..... too. Jan 22 01:06:05 Xamusk: you use GL, right Jan 22 01:06:06 ? Jan 22 01:06:16 actually, I hate brazillian keyboards... I have mine set as international english, and all the accents and special keys are in other places, but I type without looking at the keyboard Jan 22 01:06:20 nelson: we came from the portuguese, not the spanish people ;-) Jan 22 01:06:27 Xamusk: amen Jan 22 01:06:35 and I do speak a little spanish 3:-) Jan 22 01:06:35 I mean, I don't know what a brazilian keyboard layout is Jan 22 01:06:45 NeoStrider_: yeah, but you're surrounded by people who hablan espan~ol. Jan 22 01:06:54 but I have *never* seen a keyboard layout which wasn't strictly less reasonable than US int'l Jan 22 01:07:01 elb: not that diferent...but we have ç as a key after L Jan 22 01:07:11 (at least, for a programmer) Jan 22 01:07:13 elb: try typing on a french keyboard. Jan 22 01:07:24 elb: swedish is a little better, but not much. Jan 22 01:07:32 nelson: not really...I indeed forgot the spanish I learn't at school for the lack of pratice Jan 22 01:07:34 my laptop came with a "brazillian" keyboard, but the darn thing skipped a key and I would have to use AltGr to type a slash, which would be awful for a linux user Jan 22 01:07:55 I've only used .uk, .au, .jp, and .ru keyboards for any period of time -- they're all entirely unreasonable Jan 22 01:08:00 turkish is REALLY bad, because their 'i' is an undotted i, which is a completely different character than 0x69. Jan 22 01:08:39 fortunately, if the physical keys are in reasonable places, xkb to the rescue ;-) Jan 22 01:08:42 nelson, what about dvorak? Jan 22 01:08:53 *un*fortunately, on a lot of keyboards the Enter key is entirely ridiculous Jan 22 01:09:03 their dotted i is down below the comma key. hopeless for typing ASCII. Jan 22 01:09:52 Xamusk: not clear that dvorak is an improvement. I type pretty darned fast on a Kinesis Essential keyboard. Jan 22 01:10:02 model M rules heheh Jan 22 01:10:16 keys are in straight lines, dished, and at shoulder width. common keys are underneath the thumbs. Jan 22 01:10:46 hey...wrong window to type CTRL+W heheh Jan 22 01:10:53 and then there's the Chordite model I'm designing. http://blog.russnelson.com/chordite Jan 22 01:10:59 is there an up to date page for adding PAN support to OS2008? Jan 22 01:11:18 I KNOW YOUR BLOG!!! Jan 22 01:11:20 it rocks! Jan 22 01:11:43 have seen it before Jan 22 01:11:56 * nelson blushes. Jan 22 01:12:05 yeah, it's in planet.maemo.org/ Jan 22 01:12:11 * NeoStrider_ wants that cool kbd Jan 22 01:12:17 (which is great to read) Jan 22 01:12:40 NeoStrider_: yeah, they're STILL not in production. But I'm getting there. Jan 22 01:12:54 can I purchase one hahah? Jan 22 01:13:27 well, yeah, once I get the design right, so that it's 1) adjustable and yet 2) sturdy. Jan 22 01:14:08 does it blow up? Jan 22 01:16:00 No, it's only going to have AAA batteries. Jan 22 01:16:06 Little potential for explosion there. Jan 22 01:16:33 man, you led me on Jan 22 01:16:37 with the name Jan 22 01:16:57 ahhhhh, it's a chording keyboard, and it's small, so -ite. chord-ite. Jan 22 01:17:11 Not cordite, chordite. Jan 22 01:17:21 (right, I get it -- Cordite is a form of smokeless gunpowder used by the British in the early 20th century) Jan 22 01:18:53 elb: from pidgin? Jan 22 01:19:34 bkruse: yes Jan 22 01:19:54 elb: I did not know you helped on the maemo project also. Did you port pidgin? I know you from the pidgin community Jan 22 01:20:01 I did the click-to-dial asterisk stuff with pidgin Jan 22 01:20:02 cordite keyboards? Jan 22 01:20:04 you helped me :] Jan 22 01:20:06 I don't really, yet Jan 22 01:20:11 and no, I didn't port Pidgin, _|Nix|_ did Jan 22 01:20:37 ds3: hehe, no, chordite. Jan 22 01:20:44 gotcha, well, good seein you :] Jan 22 01:21:07 I have Big Plans for maemo development Jan 22 01:21:11 but I have big plans for a lot of things Jan 22 01:21:13 and little time ;-) Jan 22 01:21:24 how does that cordite thing communicates? bluetooth? Jan 22 01:21:40 elb: same Jan 22 01:21:48 mine is the iax client for maemo Jan 22 01:21:53 nelson, reading your latest entry on the chordite thing where you don't see viable method for monitoring the tendons, make a note that people wear a wrist watch every day which presses on just the area you would need to monitor. Jan 22 01:22:03 nice Jan 22 01:22:24 elb: let me know if you ever need some help and if I have some free time. Pidgin is up there no my fav projects :] Jan 22 01:22:50 glad to hear it Jan 22 01:22:58 it looks good by the way, i have often wondered if i could make use of some kind of chording keyboard but never had the motivation to actually build one. props to you :) Jan 22 01:23:47 lcuk_2: been playing with them for at least twenty years now. Jan 22 01:24:09 lcuk_2: they're specialized thingies, so you need the right circumstances to justify the learning curve. Jan 22 01:25:17 i dont doubt it. i put it on the same curve as dvorak. looks impossible at first and you wonder how people could swap, but once you make the jump you wonder how you coped before. (still qwerty for myself though..) Jan 22 01:25:52 no one has looked at PAN on OS2008? Jan 22 01:29:14 cya folks! Jan 22 01:30:09 ncya neo Jan 22 01:30:18 I would like to try dvorak, but I probably won't Jan 22 01:30:58 lcuk_2: it's not as bad as it looks. The more common keys are easier to type. Jan 22 01:31:17 the problem with any none standard keyboard is working on different desktops and having to change perspective and typing stance for each Jan 22 01:31:28 yup. Jan 22 01:31:28 first because I have never seen one selling around here, then I use a laptop and I don't like putting sticks in keyboards, and last, everyone would be different, so I would still have to retain my typing skills to use other's computers Jan 22 01:32:03 even N8X0 has a qwerty keyboard Jan 22 01:32:11 its bad enough walking to peoples desktops who use switched mouse buttons let alone a whole keyboard Jan 22 01:32:47 Xamusk, it has a partial qwerty keyboard ;) Jan 22 01:33:03 heh...got used to the mouse thing a long time ago Jan 22 01:33:24 the only thing that still throws me off is the left-handed people who keep right-handed buttons Jan 22 01:33:36 im a left hander but for sheer ease of use i havent switched the buttons Jan 22 01:33:42 lol.. Jan 22 01:34:00 heh, well that's fine as long as I don't have to fix your computer Jan 22 01:34:22 the mouse is on my LHS but the buttons are standard Jan 22 01:34:46 I can use a mouse left handed ok for a short period of time as long as the buttons are setup for left handed use Jan 22 01:34:49 i sit with first 2 fingers on left button most of the time and just shift index finger over if i need to Jan 22 01:35:18 index finger for scroll wheel rocks :) Jan 22 01:36:12 I use a mouse three fingered anyways. X11 wants all the buttons it can get it's hands on. :) Jan 22 01:36:15 i knew one guy who turned the mouse around, with wire and buttons towards him Jan 22 01:37:11 if I had to use his computer I'd probably take one look at his setup and decide I was better off using the keyboard alone Jan 22 01:37:37 nelson, don't ever try to get on a plane with this mod in place: http://blog.russnelson.com/770/N800-external-battery.html Jan 22 01:38:03 once I used the mac's mouse... it's very hard to someone who isn't used to it Jan 22 01:38:39 the new mighty mouse with the spinny-scroll-nubbin thing aren't bad at all Jan 22 01:38:52 great for graphics stuff Jan 22 01:39:05 I actually wanted one for a while to use in Linux...but they die really quick Jan 22 01:39:28 * lcuk_2 still prefers male mice Jan 22 01:39:40 my mice have to have balls. Jan 22 01:39:47 I remember the first-gen iMac mice though...those were fantastically bad Jan 22 01:40:05 lcuk_2: have already done so. :-) Jan 22 01:40:13 I never had issues with those mice. Jan 22 01:40:32 nelson, yikes, in this country (UK) you would probably be arrested Jan 22 01:42:33 Does anyone Use the hWR? Jan 22 01:43:53 *crickets chirp* Jan 22 01:44:07 I think that's a no... Jan 22 01:44:10 Henley Women's Regatta? Jan 22 01:44:41 Man the hwr stinks on this thing. Jan 22 01:44:50 johnx: the hockey puck? Jan 22 01:45:03 those things sucked bad Jan 22 01:45:04 elb, yeah, that one. *shudders* Jan 22 01:45:32 >>>>>>> handwriting recognition (HWR) <<<<<<<<<<< ding ding ding Jan 22 01:46:10 The /only/ hwr worth myy time was the newton mp2000. Jan 22 01:46:16 jees, thats a really uncommon TLA, right Esworp to answer your question, no Jan 22 01:46:29 i tried to configure it, but it would not let me adjust it how i wanted Jan 22 01:46:50 I got used to grafiti (the old one) on my visor, but since then I haven't bothered Jan 22 01:48:01 and learning how to use grafiti actually did make my normal handwriting worse Jan 22 01:48:08 i wanted to map "t" to how i type it, but it kept mapping it as "L". i unticked all variations of "L" and tried to teach it "t" and it told me it was too close to "L" even though i unmapped it. Jan 22 01:48:17 i havent been back since Jan 22 01:49:17 * lcuk_2 crosses his "t" at end of word but done as a curve, but draws l's as a straight line. Jan 22 01:50:26 I bet I could teach it the original grafiti but my touch screen kind of acts up and I don't have a stylus for it anyways :/ Jan 22 01:50:47 Has there ever been any serious work towards lefty-ifying the n800? Jan 22 01:51:09 Esworp, you mean hardware or software? Jan 22 01:51:24 Anything. Jan 22 01:51:42 not that I've heard Jan 22 01:51:55 :/ Jan 22 01:52:14 Esworp, we are lefties in a right handed world. Jan 22 01:52:26 I'm a righty but I end up just using my thumbs on the screen Jan 22 01:52:58 i want scrollbars over on the left and it would be a bodgy but would help with lots of things Jan 22 01:53:24 It'd be nice to put the left side bar on the right, etc. Jan 22 01:53:38 I saw a gtk theme that did that actually Jan 22 01:53:41 thats not such a problem for me - i like it where it is Jan 22 01:53:43 a looooong time ago Jan 22 01:53:58 john there were problems with it, i think the bug report is still open regarding it Jan 22 01:54:18 for maemo? or you mean gtkstep? Jan 22 01:54:24 its gotta lot of parameters mainly related to bidi printing i think Jan 22 01:54:37 gtk in general i tihnk Jan 22 01:54:42 this was for gtk 1.x Jan 22 01:54:56 so maybe the unicode stuff added in gtk 2.x made things harder Jan 22 01:55:26 yer it automatically gets switched with the right 2 left script Jan 22 01:55:38 so what do you do in this instance? switch the switch? Jan 22 01:56:02 anyone know a repository where i can find an os2007 version of gpsd? Jan 22 01:56:14 i'm playing with the skyhook appi Jan 22 01:56:26 err skyhookwireless api Jan 22 01:56:43 try gronmayer.com/it Jan 22 01:56:50 there are some gpsd related things at least Jan 22 01:56:58 osso-gpsd? Jan 22 01:57:10 i think their tool wpsd is meant to talk to it - but there is no doc on this i can find Jan 22 01:57:27 johnx: thanks I will loook there Jan 22 01:57:35 what is osso-gpsd? Jan 22 01:57:40 no idea Jan 22 01:57:50 it came up in a search on gronmayer Jan 22 01:58:17 ahh ok Jan 22 02:01:54 This might be a good time to mention that the maemo.org wiki can use contributors. Jan 22 02:03:05 indeed it would pupnik. do i have to become a member Jan 22 02:03:18 * jsmith wanders away... Jan 22 02:05:34 time for sleep. nite all Jan 22 02:05:41 'night lcuk_2 Jan 22 02:09:55 anyone else still getting the "gift certificate has no balance" messages when using their discount code (in the US)? Jan 22 02:10:32 * Solarion wants to grab his before they go out of stock again. :( Jan 22 02:14:04 ds3: I've used PAN on os2008 Jan 22 02:15:33 nelson, do you use the PCB software? Jan 22 02:15:45 Xamusk: yes. Jan 22 02:16:14 nelson, do you have some library or something? Jan 22 02:16:40 I've tried to use it, but I found that the component library is lacking Jan 22 02:16:46 Xamusk: amazing how you go straight for the weak oint of PCB. Jan 22 02:17:44 Xamusk: I think the "right" thing to do is create a relatively small set of parts (like 200) which are all pre-specified, with schematic symbols and PCB footprints. Jan 22 02:17:50 well, I've tried it once, and I'm using eagle, which has the most incredible library I've seen Jan 22 02:17:54 Then design a set of circuits which use them. Jan 22 02:18:18 Yeah, I'm sure. TONS and TONS of Open Source people use the freeware Eagle. Jan 22 02:19:39 I've tried some other tools, like kicad, geda and stuff Jan 22 02:21:09 but I didn't like any of them Jan 22 02:21:13 Project seeks author: A tracker/composition/beatbox/recorder tool for tablets Jan 22 02:21:30 Project seeks author: A lightweight powerful paint program (mtpaint!) for tablets Jan 22 02:22:05 keu. I'm becoming an fan for maemo mapper Jan 22 02:22:21 it did found the way back home from the other side of the city Jan 22 02:24:44 hum Jan 22 02:24:55 bluetooth modules are incredibly expensive here Jan 22 02:25:26 what kind of bluetooth modules? Jan 22 02:25:46 also, where is "here"? Jan 22 02:27:06 I mean bt modules to make custom electronics Jan 22 02:27:10 and here is Brazil Jan 22 02:29:04 I don't know if this helps you...but I remember on the zaurus forums (oesf.org/forum) someone had found that many normal USB bluetooth modules actually had a serial interface internally Jan 22 02:29:23 and he dug one up and soldered it onto some spare GPIO pins on his zaurus Jan 22 02:29:28 not quite as simple as all that I'm sure Jan 22 02:29:39 * johnx doesn't know much about electronics Jan 22 02:42:42 I don't have a zaurus Jan 22 02:43:33 the easiest thing I can manage to find for a reasonable price is a bluetooth usb dongle Jan 22 02:43:54 very small and probably hard to hack Jan 22 02:44:46 I was just offering the zaurus hack as an example. Jan 22 02:45:17 yes, it was a good advice Jan 22 02:45:24 maybe I can mod something Jan 22 02:45:31 let me find the link Jan 22 02:47:24 but I can no way find a zaurus around Jan 22 02:56:50 you should be able to use with anything that has a serial interface...as far as I understand Jan 22 02:59:26 and here's the link, but it's a long thread: http://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=13562&hl=internal%20bluetooth **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 22 02:59:56 2008