**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Jan 22 02:59:56 2008
Jan 22 03:06:31 <pupnik> http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/autotools_packaging.html   <<< A very good summary of building/packaging for ITOS / maemo.  Quick overview of autotools (autoconf, automake) with templates, as well as overview of packaging and menu entries.  Best summary I've found!
Jan 22 03:07:29 <pupnik> keywords ^^^^ maemo noobs getting started howto compile scratchbox applications ITOS packaging dpkg-buildpackage
Jan 22 03:11:58 <trevarthan> hello. is there anything out there that will turn a maemo touch screen into a remote mouse?
Jan 22 03:12:14 <trevarthan> kinda like a wireless wacom tablet.
Jan 22 03:12:41 <johnx> something like vnc or rdesktop?
Jan 22 03:12:46 <trevarthan> kinda like synergy, but with relative mouse movement instead of absolute.
Jan 22 03:12:48 <pupnik> you could hack synergy, run the server on the tablet and client on your PC
Jan 22 03:14:10 <trevarthan> I envision a white screen where you do mouse input. hold down a button (top left button) for a click
Jan 22 03:14:22 <pupnik> speaking of which, would someone build synergy for os2008?
Jan 22 03:14:27 <pupnik> someone not me, that is
Jan 22 03:14:46 <pupnik> quicksynergy or sumat
Jan 22 03:16:19 <Xamuzk> I'm back
Jan 22 03:16:21 <Xamuzk> connection problems
Jan 22 03:16:51 <trevarthan> yeah, a synergy server would make the most sense, wouldn't it?
Jan 22 03:17:06 <trevarthan> I think I'll give that a try.
Jan 22 03:38:00 <|R> i hope mulliner gets his n810 soon, as iphome would be useful ;)
Jan 22 04:10:19 <trevarthan> erg. no gpg in chinook scratchbox?
Jan 22 04:11:17 <trevarthan> nm. osso-gnupg
Jan 22 04:57:55 <dospod> supp peeps
Jan 22 04:58:16 <johnx> hey
Jan 22 04:58:58 <dospod> anybody using kde
Jan 22 04:59:42 <dospod> its rather nice
Jan 22 05:00:12 <johnx> I have something bigger in mind. I want full Debian. :)
Jan 22 05:00:20 <dospod> haha
Jan 22 05:00:40 <opengeek> hello, I'm trying to download the mediahandler-proxy sample from the ITVC tutorial and the link seems to be broken, anyone know who to contact?
Jan 22 05:01:07 <johnx> dospod, well it already boots...
Jan 22 05:01:08 <dospod> i dont see why nobodys released a diff distro for the tablet
Jan 22 05:01:34 <johnx> opengeek, sorry. I don't know who.
Jan 22 05:01:44 <johnx> dospod, because there's lots of stuff that is hard to get working
Jan 22 05:01:48 <dospod> couldnt be too hard to build a custom binstallable bin
Jan 22 05:01:53 <johnx> ahahahaha
Jan 22 05:01:55 <johnx> it is
Jan 22 05:02:21 <dospod> i dont see any problems
Jan 22 05:02:46 <dospod> unless maemo happens to be semi closed source
Jan 22 05:02:51 <johnx> it is
Jan 22 05:03:35 <dospod> then i guess drivers would be an isussue with the tablets
Jan 22 05:03:50 <dospod> damn nokia
Jan 22 05:04:00 <johnx> the difficulty I'm running into is that I want it to be dual bootable with maemo so I can't change the kernel too much from what nokia hands out
Jan 22 05:04:11 <johnx> still, hopefully I can get a console at least
Jan 22 05:04:30 <johnx> I still don't know why xomap won't run though
Jan 22 05:04:45 <dospod> i would leave the kernal the same
Jan 22 05:04:59 <johnx> I really, really want a physical console
Jan 22 05:05:18 <johnx> as far as I can tell the nokia kernel doesn't support that
Jan 22 05:05:33 <dospod> but make new startup scripts
Jan 22 05:05:37 <skibur> wow
Jan 22 05:05:40 <skibur> I on a movie!!!
Jan 22 05:05:54 <skibur> it called "The SheLL"
Jan 22 05:06:02 <skibur> anybody wanna watch the trailer?
Jan 22 05:06:06 <johnx> skibur, really?
Jan 22 05:06:08 <johnx> sure
Jan 22 05:06:10 <skibur> yeah
Jan 22 05:06:20 <johnx> dospod, so far I can: boot, use usb networking, access the SD card, access internal flash
Jan 22 05:06:22 <dospod> im bout to leave
Jan 22 05:06:25 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 05:06:27 <johnx> alright
Jan 22 05:06:37 <skibur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKuTdtrbyJ8
Jan 22 05:06:39 <dospod> gnite
Jan 22 05:06:47 <skibur> I'm the guy with Sun Glasses
Jan 22 05:07:03 <skibur> If you wanna watch the Whole movie let me know
Jan 22 05:07:52 * johnx watches trailer
Jan 22 05:09:30 <skibur> I my nokia N800 comes out !!!
Jan 22 05:11:43 <johnx> cool
Jan 22 05:12:37 <skibur> its about a computer virus gone organic!
Jan 22 05:13:13 <johnx> aaah, I wasn't quite understanding what was going on
Jan 22 05:13:19 <fysa> there any way to share an itunes library with an IT?
Jan 22 05:13:29 <skibur> wanna watch it?
Jan 22 05:13:47 <skibur> http://www.youtube.com/er87
Jan 22 05:13:55 <skibur> its 20mins long in 3 parts
Jan 22 05:13:59 <johnx> thanks. I'll look at it later
Jan 22 05:14:01 <skibur> youtube limits
Jan 22 05:14:02 <skibur> o ok
Jan 22 05:14:04 <skibur> cool
Jan 22 05:22:46 <skibur> I'm the guy in the Sun Glasses with the Long hair
Jan 22 05:28:34 <DeLe0n> any news of the US discount codes?
Jan 22 06:06:31 <ds3> shackan: do the OS2007 instruction with dummy0 work?
Jan 22 06:21:29 <Luria> anyone recall the name of the apple II screensaver on debian?
Jan 22 06:21:39 <johnx> phosphor?
Jan 22 06:22:00 <Luria> that might be it, thanks
Jan 22 06:23:27 <Luria> thinking it would look nice on my eee
Jan 22 06:23:30 <johnx> if I remember it's actually vt10x compatible now. heh.
Jan 22 06:23:54 <johnx> you could use it as your shell. :)
Jan 22 06:24:54 <Luria> heh
Jan 22 06:25:17 <Luria> there is something very oldschool about the eee
Jan 22 06:25:31 <Luria> like the huge frame:lcd lid ratio
Jan 22 06:27:20 * johnx wants that screensaver running on an N800 now
Jan 22 06:27:36 <Luria> that shouldnt be too hard
Jan 22 06:28:31 <johnx> unless I do it the hard way :)
Jan 22 06:29:08 <shack008n> good way to waste battery power :P
Jan 22 06:29:19 <Luria> ok, yes, then it would be hard
Jan 22 06:30:08 <johnx> shack008n, it should be easy enough to only start screensaver on AC
Jan 22 06:30:23 <johnx> as long as I'm going to do it the hard way anyways
Jan 22 06:30:28 <Luria> sigh, love compiz.
Jan 22 06:31:05 <johnx> it sure did get a lot better in the last year or so
Jan 22 06:31:15 <johnx> it's actually useful instead of just pretty
Jan 22 06:31:31 <shack008n> johnx: how 'hard' ?
Jan 22 06:32:09 <johnx> well, there's a debian package for xscreensaver, so I might as well just get debian running so I don't have to compile xscreensaver from source
Jan 22 06:34:10 <Luria> johnx, its in -extras
Jan 22 06:34:19 <Luria> i believe
Jan 22 06:34:20 <johnx> well, that's like cheating :(
Jan 22 06:34:48 <Luria> btw, compiz makes the eee useful
Jan 22 06:35:22 <Luria> its amazing how usable 4-6 apps are on a 800x480 screen
Jan 22 06:36:21 <Luria> crap, i should install defcon
Jan 22 06:36:44 <Luria> almost forgot i have a license for that
Jan 22 06:37:19 <johnx> wish me luck, flashing a custom kernel O_o
Jan 22 06:37:39 <Luria> go with god
Jan 22 06:37:48 <Luria> and grub
Jan 22 06:38:01 <Luria> yes, yes, i know
Jan 22 06:38:28 <johnx> actually, I'd like my n800 to stay with me. :)
Jan 22 06:39:58 <Luria> i find i hose my xubuntu install more than my n800
Jan 22 06:40:24 <johnx> you haven't been trying hard enough, obviously
Jan 22 06:40:26 <johnx> :P
Jan 22 06:43:41 <Luria> clearly
Jan 22 06:43:59 <johnx> interesting, failing to flash at all :/
Jan 22 06:44:22 <Luria> thats the idiot flash preventing feature :-)
Jan 22 06:44:28 <johnx> heh
Jan 22 06:44:37 <johnx> I wonder if I did something wrong in my kernel compile
Jan 22 06:44:46 <johnx> or if my usb stuff on the desktop is acting up
Jan 22 06:45:02 <Luria> it might be the patch /dev/random you used
Jan 22 06:45:09 <Luria> ;-)
Jan 22 06:46:48 <johnx> dd if=/dev/random of=/kernel-image.bin bs=1024 count=4
Jan 22 06:46:50 <johnx> is that not right?
Jan 22 06:47:17 <Luria> sounds like it
Jan 22 06:47:55 <Luria> i prefer the of=/dev/sda1 style, but i always liked hammers too.
Jan 22 06:48:36 <johnx> yeah, nothing like the direct approach
Jan 22 06:49:28 <Luria> flashing yet?
Jan 22 06:49:59 <johnx> nope
Jan 22 06:50:11 <Luria> hmmm the unionfs approach of the eee almost makes it parent friendly
Jan 22 06:50:33 <johnx> usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable
Jan 22 06:51:05 <Luria> arg
Jan 22 06:51:16 <Luria> any related dmesg output?
Jan 22 06:51:31 <johnx> one sec
Jan 22 06:51:50 <Luria> btw, the screensaver was apple ][, but also in the same -extras deb
Jan 22 06:52:12 <Luria> sigh, synaptic is the enemy of slim systems... its like a freaking candy store
Jan 22 06:52:20 <johnx> heh
Jan 22 06:52:33 <johnx> with a "free" sign out front
Jan 22 06:53:18 <Luria> worse yet, i forget what i install if there is no menu item
Jan 22 06:58:24 <johnx> weird, dmesg says nothing about it
Jan 22 06:59:17 <Luria> you should have a message from simply plugging in the device
Jan 22 06:59:39 <johnx> let me try again, my dmesg is pretty crowded
Jan 22 07:01:24 <johnx> just the normal stuff...
Jan 22 07:02:44 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 07:02:45 <Luria> right, but you should have a message at the end of the buffer
Jan 22 07:03:17 <johnx> all i have is what it found when I plugged in the device, nothing about the transfer failing
Jan 22 07:03:21 <johnx> but I think I know what it is
Jan 22 07:05:24 <johnx> I tried flashing vmlinux from the kernel-source dir, when I should have flashed zImage
Jan 22 07:06:05 <oil> hmm. what's this cx3110x: WARNING TX dropped.  I try to scp files to the router. first 10-20 MB goes well, and then scp says 'stalled'
Jan 22 07:08:44 <Luria> johnx, sounds right
Jan 22 07:09:39 <rm_you> johnx: lol....
Jan 22 07:09:45 <rm_you> johnx: http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libhildondesktop/window-menu.html
Jan 22 07:10:32 <rm_you> johnx: I am experimenting with those >_> the PopupWindow one basically looks like mine but behaves more like a real popup... Though I'm hoping I can manipulate the menu one to do my bidding!
Jan 22 07:10:43 <johnx> heh
Jan 22 07:11:17 <rm_you> johnx: so I met Kit today. >_>
Jan 22 07:11:24 <rm_you> johnx: not like... ACTUAL Kit.
Jan 22 07:11:41 <rm_you> But she's basically the same person, minus about 4 years >_>
Jan 22 07:11:48 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 07:12:03 <rm_you> it's crazy. she even looks eerily identical
Jan 22 07:12:14 <johnx> Luria, it flashed
Jan 22 07:12:22 <Luria> yay
Jan 22 07:12:24 <johnx> I think it booted too, but it didn't do what I wanted :/
Jan 22 07:12:34 <Luria> half yay
Jan 22 07:12:38 <rm_you> anyways, sleep time. night
Jan 22 07:12:46 <johnx> 'night rm_you
Jan 22 07:17:49 <truent> bewm bewm bewm
Jan 22 08:56:15 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jan 22 08:56:24 <Spakman> Morning
Jan 22 08:56:31 <johnx> mornin'
Jan 22 08:57:08 <Tama^2> morning
Jan 22 08:57:20 <Tama^2> [   10.445312] menelaus 1-0072: Setting voltage 'VMMC' to 3000 mV (reg 0x0a, val 0xb8)
Jan 22 08:57:21 <Tama^2> [   10.468750] kjournald starting.  Commit interval 5 seconds
Jan 22 08:57:21 <Tama^2> [   10.476562] EXT3 FS on mmcblk0p2, internal journal
Jan 22 08:57:21 <Tama^2> [   10.476562] EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
Jan 22 08:57:21 <Tama^2> [   10.523437] tahvo: Registering interrupt 7 for device
Jan 22 08:57:22 <Tama^2> [   10.531250] retu: Registering interrupt 8 for device
Jan 22 08:57:23 <Tama^2> [   10.531250] retu: Registering interrupt 1 for device
Jan 22 08:57:25 <Tama^2> [   10.531250] tahvo: Registering interrupt 1 for device
Jan 22 08:57:27 <Tama^2> [   10.851562] mmcblk0: error 1 transferring data
Jan 22 08:57:29 <Tama^2> [   10.851562] end_request: I/O error, dev mmcblk0, sector 5507088
Jan 22 08:57:31 <Tama^2> [   10.851562] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_get_inode_loc: unable to read inode block - inode=237121, block=491522
Jan 22 08:57:34 <Tama^2> [   11.031250] tahvo: Registering interrupt 2 for device
Jan 22 08:57:36 <Tama^2> this is why I cannot boot from mmc
Jan 22 08:57:38 <Tama^2> :(
Jan 22 08:58:10 <Tama^2> when mounting the same partition *after* booting it work perfectly
Jan 22 08:58:32 <b0unc3> good morning
Jan 22 08:59:05 <liri> morning
Jan 22 08:59:39 <johnx> Tama^2,  have you tried doing fsck on it?
Jan 22 08:59:47 <Tama^2> yep
Jan 22 08:59:51 <Tama^2> no issue
Jan 22 09:00:03 <Tama^2> and I tried dd'ing the whole content elsewhere
Jan 22 09:00:08 <Tama^2> again no errors
Jan 22 09:00:15 <Tama^2> it appens only at boot
Jan 22 09:00:18 <johnx> was this in a card reader or the N800?
Jan 22 09:00:30 <johnx> (that you ran fsck)
Jan 22 09:00:37 <Tama^2> the n800
Jan 22 09:01:11 <Tama^2> the same n800 that mounts the very same partition if I ssh in *after* booting if finished
Jan 22 09:02:51 <johnx> Tama^2, that's pretty weird
Jan 22 09:02:55 <Tama^2> I know
Jan 22 09:02:57 <Tama^2> :/
Jan 22 09:03:15 <johnx> that's not the *weirdest* thing I've ever seen regarding SD cards...but pretty weird
Jan 22 09:03:52 * johnx grumbles: Don't see what was wrong with CF cards really...never had a problem with them
Jan 22 09:04:10 <Luria> cf cards rock
Jan 22 09:04:23 <Luria> but admittedly are huge
Jan 22 09:04:28 <johnx> yeah
Jan 22 09:04:34 <johnx> it's just such a good standard though
Jan 22 09:04:40 <Tama^2> I thought it may be something that is not initialized at that stage
Jan 22 09:04:41 <Luria> but yeah, they are just ata
Jan 22 09:05:02 <Luria> (non disk) io devices were great on cf
Jan 22 09:05:18 <johnx> notice the complete lack of CF *HC* and other such rediculousness
Jan 22 09:05:49 <Luria> thats a control chip issue, but yeah
Jan 22 09:05:57 <johnx> the old CF standard now has 32GB cards that will work fine in your laptop from 1993
Jan 22 09:06:19 <Luria> i loved that you can just adapt a cf to take the place of a real hdd
Jan 22 09:07:05 <johnx> and if they eventually stop making higher capacity CF cards we can all just buy CF-to-SDHC adapters and not even notice the difference
Jan 22 09:07:23 <Luria> not going to happen any time soon
Jan 22 09:07:33 <Luria> the photo industry lives on cf
Jan 22 09:07:43 <johnx> I could believe that CF will eventually get more expensive than SD though
Jan 22 09:07:46 <Luria> plus a lot of embedded devices
Jan 22 09:08:04 <Luria> probably
Jan 22 09:08:26 <Luria> i love the nikon dslr, with "raided" cf
Jan 22 09:08:37 <Luria> it's dual slot
Jan 22 09:08:46 <johnx> I hadn't even heard about that
Jan 22 09:08:50 <johnx> craziness
Jan 22 09:09:14 <Luria> its also $5000
Jan 22 09:09:30 <johnx> I think I'd rather have a car O_o
Jan 22 09:09:40 <michele_> well, I see less and less cameras with CF cards... everybody is going to SDs
Jan 22 09:09:41 <Luria> heh
Jan 22 09:09:53 <Luria> fewer consumer cameras are cf
Jan 22 09:10:08 <michele_> the nikon D50, for example is SD
Jan 22 09:10:14 <Luria> the pro slrs are not going to move any time soon
Jan 22 09:10:30 <Luria> d50 isnt made any more
Jan 22 09:10:35 <L0cutus> this is perfect for CF :
Jan 22 09:10:38 <L0cutus> http://www.gizmodo.it/2008/01/21/la-macchina-fotografica-digitale-che-fa-foto-da-160-megapixel.html
Jan 22 09:10:40 <L0cutus> :)
Jan 22 09:10:48 <Luria> the big shift was the d80 going to sdhc
Jan 22 09:11:13 <Tama^2> oh dear lord, that is *bad* italian in the title...
Jan 22 09:11:19 <L0cutus> yup :)
Jan 22 09:11:26 <Tama^2> written by a 5 yo?
Jan 22 09:11:39 <Luria> otoh, the d3 just came out, if you can find it, and is very cf
Jan 22 09:11:51 <Tama^2> The error: [   10.851562] EXT3-fs error (device mmcblk0p2): ext3_get_inode_loc: unable to read inode block - inode=237121, block=491522
Jan 22 09:11:53 <Veggen> could have been written by me ;) (my italian is about at that level)
Jan 22 09:12:10 <michele_> Tama^2: italiano?
Jan 22 09:12:11 <Luria> iow, all digital cameras over $1400 are cf
Jan 22 09:12:13 <Tama^2> the partition table:
Jan 22 09:12:14 <Tama^2>    Device Boot   Start       End    #blocks   Id  System
Jan 22 09:12:20 <Tama^2> Veggen: lol
Jan 22 09:12:23 <Tama^2> michele_: yes
Jan 22 09:12:36 <michele_> Tama^2: me too ;)
Jan 22 09:12:41 <Luria> i miss type III cf
Jan 22 09:12:46 <Luria> that was nuts
Jan 22 09:12:47 <Tama^2>  /dev/mmcblk0p1            0+   786431     786431+   b  W95 FAT32
Jan 22 09:12:49 <johnx> Tama^2, it's very interesting since flash isn't supposed to fail on reads...
Jan 22 09:12:54 <Tama^2>  /dev/mmcblk0p2       787456   3948543    3161088   83  Linux
Jan 22 09:12:57 <Veggen> Tama2: but I'm learning italian by spending 1-2 weeks in Italy every 2nd year ;)
Jan 22 09:13:08 <Veggen> (on average)
Jan 22 09:13:11 <Tama^2> michele_: I figured by the name :)
Jan 22 09:13:17 <Luria> johnx, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D3
Jan 22 09:13:29 * L0cutus too
Jan 22 09:13:31 <Tama^2> Veggen: italian is a bitch to learn xD
Jan 22 09:14:00 <Tama^2> johnx: look at the partition table, the block it cannot read is not even in the ext3 partition!
Jan 22 09:14:14 <Tama^2> johnx: or maybe I should go to sleep...
Jan 22 09:14:16 <Tama^2> xD
Jan 22 09:15:13 <johnx> could the block number that the error is referencing be an offset from the beginning of the partition?
Jan 22 09:15:40 <johnx> either way, it doesn't make sense
Jan 22 09:16:23 * johnx is afk
Jan 22 09:25:19 <liri> what are the possible development platforms for maemo? (n800/n810)
Jan 22 09:26:19 <liri> I'm talking about the alternatives rather than the obvious c+gtk
Jan 22 09:26:42 <inz> You can do also Gtk+/C ;)
Jan 22 09:26:59 <inz> And there's quite a bunch of python programs out there too
Jan 22 09:28:52 <liri> I read about pygtk a bit, would that run good?
Jan 22 09:29:10 <liri> I read on some talkbacks that it was somewhat slow/heavy
Jan 22 09:29:33 <inz> As far as I've understood, startup is the real problem
Jan 22 09:29:43 <inz> After that they should be quite smooth
Jan 22 09:29:58 <liri> ahh
Jan 22 09:30:05 <Blafasel> I'm still interested in java/mono for me
Jan 22 09:30:21 <liri> are there different combinations of python and gtk, I think that pygtk is one development platform but there are others, no?
Jan 22 09:30:31 <Blafasel> But the mono stuff seems to be outdated. At least the stuff on their webpage is.
Jan 22 09:30:45 <inz> liri, pymaemo is just extension of pygtk
Jan 22 09:31:07 <liri> ahh ok
Jan 22 09:31:13 <inz> liri, and on maemo you shouldn't use anything that is not gtk based (if possible)
Jan 22 09:31:26 <liri> I'll search maemo website for some info on starting out with pygtk
Jan 22 09:31:50 <liri> java is somewhat interesting also, would that run good?
Jan 22 09:32:37 <Tama^2> great, I have this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2637
Jan 22 09:32:40 <Tama^2> -_-
Jan 22 09:32:44 <inz> liri, http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/ is the homepage of pymaemo
Jan 22 09:33:15 <inz> liri, afaik there is no (public) release of java for the tablets
Jan 22 09:33:38 <liri> thanks inz
Jan 22 09:34:05 <Veggen> Tama: Oh, I don't bother with grammar etc :) I learn by speaking, only.
Jan 22 09:34:31 <Veggen> Tama: Actually, travelling within italy, outside the mass-tourism places, you pretty much have to learn italian.
Jan 22 09:34:37 <Veggen> (at least a bit)
Jan 22 09:34:43 <Tama^2> yes, I imagine
Jan 22 09:35:01 <Tama^2> pretty tough to get by without italian outside touristic routes
Jan 22 09:43:43 <liri> that carman screenshots are so smooth and nice :)
Jan 22 09:47:15 <maddler> morning all
Jan 22 09:51:13 <michele_> Blafasel: the mono port is still alive
Jan 22 09:51:34 <chelli> hi, is there anyone who is successfully using svn-buildpackage inside scratchbox? (Chinook SDK)
Jan 22 09:51:59 <chelli> i allways get the following error: Can't load '/scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/auto/SVN/_Core/_Core.so' for module SVN::_Core: /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/libsvn_ra_dav-1.so.0: undefined symbol: RAND_status at /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/DynaLoader.pm line 230.
Jan 22 09:51:59 <chelli>  at /scratchbox/devkits/maemo3-tools/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/SVN/Base.pm line 59
Jan 22 09:52:24 <mk8> Hi michele_, I'm italian too ... :)
Jan 22 09:52:48 <Tama^2> lots of italians here by the looks of it
Jan 22 09:52:53 <michele_> uau tanti italiani qua
Jan 22 09:53:56 <mk8> michele_: do you use mono on maemo?
Jan 22 09:55:40 <michele_> mk8: not really, I asked somebody who works on it
Jan 22 09:56:52 <mk8> I try to use it with the OS2007 version. Now a new version compatibile with OS2008 need to be released.
Jan 22 09:57:08 <mk8> but is not released jet
Jan 22 09:58:03 <Tama^2> OK, same card in external slot boots fine
Jan 22 09:58:10 <Tama^2> almost two days wasted..
Jan 22 09:58:19 <Tama^2> damn
Jan 22 09:59:37 <michele_> mk8: it should be released soon ;)
Jan 22 10:00:49 <mk8> the problem is related to the GTK binding, IIRC .... but hope to make some test as soon as possible ... :) ... but I have no date ... :(
Jan 22 10:07:03 <mk8> michele_: do you already used mono on maemo?
Jan 22 10:07:14 <michele_> mk8: no
Jan 22 10:10:44 <Blafasel> michele_: Thanks for sharing that. I'm looking forward to use it/test it.
Jan 22 10:11:12 <mk8> michele_: do you plan to use it?
Jan 22 10:12:39 <michele_> mk8: not sure. python would be my choice, but the projects I'd like to work at the moment are driving me to C
Jan 22 10:16:59 <maddler> a little off topic but... has anyone ever used a MSI laptop?
Jan 22 10:19:57 <mk8> michele_: I would like to port GBrainy to maemo when the mono runtime will be released ... :)
Jan 22 10:20:14 <michele_> what's that?
Jan 22 10:20:57 <mk8> michele_: look here http://live.gnome.org/gbrainy
Jan 22 10:32:51 <Blafasel> mk8: Good idea ;)
Jan 22 10:49:22 <Tama^2> is anyone here daring enough to compile from an actual meamo device (e.g. n800)?
Jan 22 10:51:51 <johnx> sure
Jan 22 10:51:54 <johnx> what do you want compiled
Jan 22 10:52:02 <johnx> I'm on debian though, if that makes a difference
Jan 22 10:53:06 <Tama^2> I am asking because I would like to do that myself and I am looking for recipes (repositories to add for dev libs and compilers)
Jan 22 10:53:31 <Tama^2> by the way I found out what my problem with the MMC was...
Jan 22 10:53:56 <johnx> it works in the external slot right?
Jan 22 10:53:59 <johnx> was there something else?
Jan 22 10:54:01 <Tama^2> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2637 <-- worked around it by using the external slot
Jan 22 10:54:45 <johnx> that's crazy that it works in the external slot O_o
Jan 22 10:55:14 <Tama^2> apparently the internal interface behaves differently and it's a known issue
Jan 22 10:55:18 <Tama^2> -_-
Jan 22 10:55:25 <johnx> random
Jan 22 10:56:05 <Tama^2> I would like to know if I can add dev sources and just do for isntance: apt-get install libhildondesktop
Jan 22 10:56:36 <Tama^2> from my OS2008 installation that is
Jan 22 10:56:41 <johnx> from what I understand some of the -dev stuff is slightly different versions than the shared libs that ship with OS2008
Jan 22 10:57:16 <Tama^2> mmm arrgh, well but if the apps are linked against it it must be the same >.<
Jan 22 10:57:31 <johnx> they're close enough that it doesn't matter
Jan 22 10:57:40 <johnx> but it will mess with your dependencies
Jan 22 10:57:55 <johnx> but now that you've cloned to SD card it's worth a shot
Jan 22 10:58:12 <johnx> just rsync a backup onto your computer, add the repos and if it fails, restore from backup
Jan 22 10:58:15 <Tama^2> I imagined that was going to be the case that is why I cloned my rootfs
Jan 22 10:58:33 <johnx> me too
Jan 22 10:58:44 <Tama^2> which repos should I add? Is there a list somewhere on the wiki?
Jan 22 10:58:56 <johnx> do you have scratchbox?
Jan 22 10:59:05 <johnx> I don't think this is on a wiki anywhere
Jan 22 10:59:16 <Tama^2> no scratchbox
Jan 22 10:59:16 <johnx> frankly, I don't know if anyone got this working before
Jan 22 10:59:28 <Tama^2> lol
Jan 22 10:59:30 <Tama^2> ok
Jan 22 11:00:05 <Tama^2> let's try by accessing the offcial repos and seeing if there are dev sections...
Jan 22 11:00:08 <johnx> ok, I'll give you a pastebin of one of my hacked up debian installs
Jan 22 11:00:13 <johnx> apt/sources.list
Jan 22 11:00:25 <Tama^2> thanks
Jan 22 11:00:39 <inz> Tama, you probably need to compile some stuff in scratchbox first
Jan 22 11:00:54 <inz> Tama, some package versions differ on chinook and os2008 repositories
Jan 22 11:01:08 <inz> Tama, and os2008 only contains sources
Jan 22 11:01:30 <Tama^2> I see
Jan 22 11:02:08 <johnx> do you not have a debian/ubuntu box to host a scratchbox?
Jan 22 11:04:28 <Tama^2> I could setup a VM
Jan 22 11:05:13 <Tama^2> but I wanted to try working on the device directly
Jan 22 11:05:27 <Khertan> Hi !
Jan 22 11:05:42 <johnx> hi
Jan 22 11:05:42 <inz> Tama, it should be possible after you've compiled those few packages
Jan 22 11:05:53 <michele_> compiling directly on the device sounds really really painful
Jan 22 11:05:55 <inz> Tama, to get -dev packages with matching versions of those on the device
Jan 22 11:05:57 <Khertan> If you want a home ip applet on your desktop ... i ve made one ... but it s still lack transparency
Jan 22 11:06:19 <Khertan> http://khertan.net/downloads.php
Jan 22 11:06:22 <johnx> michele_, why? in terms of speed? or complication?
Jan 22 11:06:34 <michele_> speed
Jan 22 11:06:48 <Tama^2> I expect it to be slow, but I do not plan to compile kernels anyway
Jan 22 11:06:49 <Tama^2> :P
Jan 22 11:06:56 <johnx> michele_, it's not *that* bad
Jan 22 11:07:21 <johnx> right now I have an x server compile going in qemu that's not much faster than an N800
Jan 22 11:07:27 <johnx> should only take a day or two
Jan 22 11:07:36 <Tama^2> Khertan: thanks
Jan 22 11:07:51 <michele_> johnx: I'm spoiled after so many years with python and incremental java compilers, compilation was a forgotten step for me :)
Jan 22 11:08:24 <johnx> there are always tradeoffs
Jan 22 11:08:35 <michele_> a day or two... this remembers me of my first linux builds on the 486@66MHz...
Jan 22 11:08:38 <johnx> you don't want your xserver written in python for example :P
Jan 22 11:08:54 <Khertan> johnx > why not :)
Jan 22 11:09:21 <johnx> You...uhm...might have some speed issues
Jan 22 11:09:53 * Tama^2 loooooooves python
Jan 22 11:09:56 <wikki> anyone know how to reset the accounts on the builtin email program?
Jan 22 11:10:14 <wikki> I've got a nokia N800 that I got from someone
Jan 22 11:10:25 <johnx> Tama^2, http://pastebin.ca/868318 there is my complete sources.list
Jan 22 11:10:26 <Khertan> wikki> rm -rf /home/user should work ... but ll delete other things :)
Jan 22 11:10:39 <Tama^2> lol
Jan 22 11:10:41 <johnx> wikki, don't do what Khertan said :P
Jan 22 11:10:44 <Tama^2> thanks johnx
Jan 22 11:10:50 <wikki> yes
Jan 22 11:10:59 <wikki> I wasn't going to do that
Jan 22 11:11:01 <johnx> Tama^2, keep in mind many repositories listed in their contradict each other
Jan 22 11:11:08 <johnx> wikki, just making sure :)
Jan 22 11:11:19 <wikki> is there a specific directory under there that I can delete though?
Jan 22 11:11:24 <Khertan> if i remember in /home/user/ there is a rep nammed email
Jan 22 11:11:26 <wikki> where are the settings for the email stored?
Jan 22 11:11:43 <Khertan> or should be in /home/user/application
Jan 22 11:11:53 <michele_> ~user/apps/email
Jan 22 11:11:57 <Tama^2> email accounts may be in gconf I suspect
Jan 22 11:12:10 <johnx> wikki, I honestly don't know. You could just reflash if you don't have any of your stuff on their yet
Jan 22 11:12:22 <johnx> give you a fresh start and get you up to the latest software version
Jan 22 11:12:49 <johnx> anyways
Jan 22 11:12:55 <johnx> I am afk for a while
Jan 22 11:13:02 <Khertan> on os2007 it wasn't in gconf
Jan 22 11:13:11 <Khertan> but don't know for os2008
Jan 22 11:13:26 <Tama^2> gconftool -R / | grep gmail
Jan 22 11:13:33 <wikki> ah ha
Jan 22 11:13:36 <wikki> michele is right
Jan 22 11:13:39 <Khertan> Uh ... i just see that minivmac is in the maemo application wish list
Jan 22 11:13:41 <Tama^2> and I find matching stuff
Jan 22 11:13:51 <wikki> user/apps/email/settings/accountsrc
Jan 22 11:14:08 <Khertan> i should recompile it for os2008 and make it available :)
Jan 22 11:14:10 <|tbb|> anyone familar with dbus-send ?
Jan 22 11:14:21 <wikki> how do you reflash the whole thing?
Jan 22 11:21:31 <GeneralAntilles> Download the latest OS2008 release and flash, wikki.
Jan 22 11:23:57 <wikki> is that on maemo.org or nokia's site?
Jan 22 11:24:21 <GeneralAntilles> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php
Jan 22 11:24:24 <GeneralAntilles> for the firmware
Jan 22 11:24:31 <GeneralAntilles> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php
Jan 22 11:24:37 <GeneralAntilles> for the flasher if you're on Linux or OS X
Jan 22 11:25:18 <wikki> great
Jan 22 11:25:21 <wikki> yes i'm on linux :)
Jan 22 11:28:23 <Tama^2> It's bed time
Jan 22 11:28:34 <Tama^2> see you folks
Jan 22 11:29:44 <wikki> thanks general
Jan 22 11:30:04 <GeneralAntilles> Sure thing.
Jan 22 11:30:25 <michele_> whoohoo
Jan 22 11:30:35 * michele_ discovered the "mobile" theme on ITT
Jan 22 11:30:54 <Piotras> hi
Jan 22 11:31:20 <Piotras> anybody here can help with qemu issues ( armel target ) ?
Jan 22 11:32:35 <GeneralAntilles> michele_, assuming that's not sarcasm: the mobile theme is pretty underfeatured, I'd recommend Classic instead.
Jan 22 11:33:57 <michele_> GeneralAntilles: I mostly just read the forums, if I find something missing, I'll try classic
Jan 22 11:34:11 <michele_> by now I've made it the default even on the real PC
Jan 22 11:34:31 <GeneralAntilles> No Thanks! button, no reply buttons, etc.
Jan 22 11:35:23 <GeneralAntilles> s/Thanks!/\"Thanks!\"/
Jan 22 11:35:23 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: No \"Thanks!\" button, no reply buttons, etc.
Jan 22 11:35:27 <michele_> it's just embarassing that the default is unusable on the IT
Jan 22 11:35:42 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, "unusable" is a little strong.
Jan 22 11:35:54 <GeneralAntilles> It worked fine for me.
Jan 22 11:35:58 <GeneralAntilles> It's just a little slow.
Jan 22 11:36:07 <michele_> Meh, "fine" is a little strong.
Jan 22 11:36:19 <michele_> the little numbers to change page are impossible to hit
Jan 22 11:36:25 <GeneralAntilles> Bull. ;)
Jan 22 11:36:30 <GeneralAntilles> You're just bad at hitting them. :P
Jan 22 11:36:52 <michele_> ideally, the site should be usable without the stilus
Jan 22 11:37:04 <michele_> s/stilus/stylus/
Jan 22 11:37:05 <infobot> michele_ meant: ideally, the site should be usable without the stylus
Jan 22 11:39:23 <maddler> michele_: are you italian as well?
Jan 22 11:40:39 <michele_> maddler: sì
Jan 22 11:40:59 <maddler> :)
Jan 22 11:41:18 <maddler> nice! :D where from?
Jan 22 11:41:21 <michele_> we should do an italian maemo meeting
Jan 22 11:41:26 <michele_> Treviso
Jan 22 11:41:34 <maddler> michele_: yes, I was thinking about that...
Jan 22 11:41:50 <Tama^2> mmmh Treviso
Jan 22 11:41:53 <maddler> michele_: the real point is that Italy is damn long!
Jan 22 11:42:09 <Tama^2> too far away :P
Jan 22 11:42:40 <b0unc3> wow... another italian... great!
Jan 22 11:42:41 <Tama^2> (yes, still here)
Jan 22 11:42:58 <michele_> ok, italias, come over on #maemo-it :)
Jan 22 11:43:08 <b0unc3> :)
Jan 22 11:43:09 <Tama^2> It kind of proves my theory that italians are uber-geeks
Jan 22 11:43:34 <Tama^2> and gadget-feticists :P
Jan 22 11:45:54 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jan 22 11:46:31 <GeneralAntilles> Tama^2, I think your sample size is a little small for that. :P
Jan 22 11:47:01 <Tama^2> I lived there for 26 years
Jan 22 11:47:15 <Tama^2> I know something about my countrymen ;)
Jan 22 11:47:28 <maddler> number of italians here increased a lot in the last few months
Jan 22 11:48:28 <maddler> Tama^2: absolutely!
Jan 22 11:48:36 <maddler> I'm a damn techno geek!
Jan 22 11:48:38 <maddler> :D
Jan 22 12:36:31 * lcuk_2 peeks in from work 
Jan 22 12:37:27 <maddler> L0cN800: #maemo-it :)
Jan 22 12:38:40 <L0cN800> ciao maddler
Jan 22 12:43:21 <wikki> looks like you can delete /home/apps/email/settings/accountrc
Jan 22 12:43:35 <wikki> and that will let you create a new email account when the thing won't start
Jan 22 12:43:58 <wikki> it's pretty crummy that the program just crashes when it can't resolve the hostname for the email aserver
Jan 22 13:05:04 <johnx> so, I'm booted into debian on my N800.
Jan 22 13:05:19 <johnx> I'm trying to get something to actually access the framebuffer device though
Jan 22 13:05:29 <johnx> Xomap will run but doesn't display anything
Jan 22 13:05:57 <johnx> mplayer -vo fbdev runs and acts like it's playing but nothing ever displays
Jan 22 13:06:06 <matmo> hi all. Could someone check the contents of /usr/lib/alsa-lib on 2008 for me (on their own device)?
Jan 22 13:06:36 <johnx> sure, one sec
Jan 22 13:06:53 <johnx> lots of stuff
Jan 22 13:06:59 <johnx> I'll put it on pastebin
Jan 22 13:07:06 <matmo> ok
Jan 22 13:07:21 <johnx> http://pastebin.ca/868418
Jan 22 13:07:40 <matmo> thanks
Jan 22 13:08:53 <jott> johnx: how do you run it currently? stock kernel + modified initfs and then debian root?
Jan 22 13:09:09 <johnx> I'm using fanoush's modified initfs
Jan 22 13:09:32 <johnx> so I have a white screen that says "Booting from int-sd . . ."
Jan 22 13:10:11 <johnx> (stock kernel -or- one of my own slightly modified kernels) + fanoush's initfs + debian armel on sd
Jan 22 13:10:21 <jott> hmm yeah..
Jan 22 13:11:54 <johnx> it's really weird, because one time I booted and the framebuffer console I added to the kernel actually displayed one line of text on a black background
Jan 22 13:11:57 <jott> maybe there is something else called in the os2008 root to initialize the framebuffer..
Jan 22 13:12:06 <johnx> I was thinking that
Jan 22 13:12:13 <johnx> I'm digging through the init scripts now :/
Jan 22 13:12:32 <johnx> I just figured if someone had the inside story on this ...
Jan 22 13:12:52 <johnx> I should really see how the OE/Poky guys do this and copy them as much as I can
Jan 22 13:12:59 <johnx> it's bound to be more straightforward
Jan 22 13:13:23 <jott> indeed.. probably something very small
Jan 22 13:14:48 <jott> johnx: maybe some runlevel borkness?
Jan 22 13:14:58 <Blafasel> johnx: Just curious: What are you planning to do with a "full" debian on your N800?
Jan 22 13:15:19 <johnx> Blafasel, put maemo and libhildon on it
Jan 22 13:15:36 <johnx> but be able to use any package I want without all sorts of compiling
Jan 22 13:15:56 <johnx> maybe I'll use matchbox panel instead of the default desktop.
Jan 22 13:15:57 <Blafasel> Ah, so you want to replace the underlying base system, but still stick to the UI?
Jan 22 13:16:07 <johnx> dunno yet
Jan 22 13:16:34 <johnx> I like the look of it for the most part, but I think I might prefer matchbox desktop for launching things
Jan 22 13:16:49 <johnx> I want to make it easier to mix and match apps
Jan 22 13:17:12 <johnx> plus, I want to make the tablet as future proof as I can
Jan 22 13:17:38 <johnx> and if I'm lucky a lot of this stuff will apply to the 770 as well and extend the life of those devices
Jan 22 13:18:35 <johnx> jott, interesting that you should mention runlevels. Debian can't even figure out what runlevel it's *in*
Jan 22 13:18:46 <wikki> :)
Jan 22 13:18:49 <johnx> but it looks like all the runlevel 2 stuff is running (or tried to run
Jan 22 13:18:56 <wikki> sounds like fun john
Jan 22 13:19:02 <johnx> it should be
Jan 22 13:19:15 <wikki> you're trying to get X running now?
Jan 22 13:19:17 <Blafasel> Hm? Doesn't init print the current runlevel as well?
Jan 22 13:19:36 <johnx> Blafasel, if I type runlevel I get back unknown :)
Jan 22 13:19:43 <Blafasel> johnx: init?
Jan 22 13:19:48 <johnx> wikki, yeah...or anything that runs on the framebuffer
Jan 22 13:20:47 <johnx> init 2 or init 3 return instantly
Jan 22 13:21:45 <johnx> after running Xomap from inside my IT2008OS chroot the screen has gone completely white
Jan 22 13:21:49 <johnx> interesting
Jan 22 13:25:02 <Blafasel> johnx: ps auxww | grep init doesn't show the level either?
Jan 22 13:25:23 <johnx> thanks
Jan 22 13:25:25 <johnx> that shows me 3
Jan 22 13:25:29 <johnx> thats good to know
Jan 22 13:25:30 <Blafasel> ok
Jan 22 13:25:56 <jott> johnx: hmm have you /tmp/dsmesock in your debian root?
Jan 22 13:26:21 <jott> or do like mount -n -o bind /mnt/initfs/tmp /tmp
Jan 22 13:26:33 <johnx> my tmp is empty
Jan 22 13:26:41 <jott> maybe you need the dsmesock!?
Jan 22 13:26:48 <jott> (for X that is)
Jan 22 13:26:59 <johnx> I'll give that a shot
Jan 22 13:27:00 <jott> just blind guess though...
Jan 22 13:27:09 <johnx> I admit I didn't even think about that
Jan 22 13:27:58 <johnx> actually, looks like they're both empty
Jan 22 13:28:32 <jott> hmm somewhere the socket must be created ;)
Jan 22 13:29:18 <johnx> could that really prevent anything from just writing to the fb and getting displayed on screen?
Jan 22 13:29:50 <johnx> is there somewhere I can read up on what dsme is responsible for?
Jan 22 13:31:26 <jott> hmm haven't seen anything indepth yet :(
Jan 22 13:31:56 <johnx> heh...ran lsof and it looks like dsme still has /tmp/dsmesock held open...I just have no idea what happened to it
Jan 22 13:31:58 <jott> but your /mnt/initfs/tmp is also empty?! this should not be i gues..
Jan 22 13:32:08 <jott> s
Jan 22 13:32:17 <johnx> I assume some ugliness happened during the initfs to debian handoff
Jan 22 13:32:28 <johnx> or while debian was booting
Jan 22 13:34:00 <jott> johnx: then try to mount /dev/root to /mnt/initfs
Jan 22 13:35:02 <johnx> hmm?
Jan 22 13:35:13 <johnx> looks like I'm missing /dev/root too
Jan 22 13:35:18 <jott> oh :)
Jan 22 13:35:31 <johnx> forgive me for asking but what would that do?
Jan 22 13:36:04 <jott> the initfs is on /dev/root (atleast on os2008 thats the mount)
Jan 22 13:36:13 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 13:36:40 <johnx> /mnt/initfs is mounted actually
Jan 22 13:36:54 <johnx> and has the right contents even
Jan 22 13:40:06 <johnx> heh
Jan 22 13:40:38 <johnx> unmounted /tmp twice in a row and found some files underneath
Jan 22 13:40:58 <bedboi> hi there
Jan 22 13:41:03 <johnx> hi
Jan 22 13:47:55 <Spakman> 
Jan 22 13:47:57 <Spakman> oops
Jan 22 13:52:02 <Ariel_Eran> Any ops around?
Jan 22 14:09:34 <alterego> Oh the things we do for money.
Jan 22 14:10:52 <Spakman> alterego: ?
Jan 22 14:11:06 <Veggen> I'm actually pretty satisfied with my ability to keep my professional ethics at work...
Jan 22 14:11:16 <johnx> and I have video!
Jan 22 14:11:17 <alterego> Oh, it's not ethical.
Jan 22 14:11:26 <alterego> It's just damn boring and tedious :P
Jan 22 14:11:49 <Veggen> oh. yah. I don't work well when it's boring and tedious.
Jan 22 14:11:55 <Veggen> I need new and fun and exciting ;)
Jan 22 14:12:21 <johnx> tedious is not so fun :/
Jan 22 14:12:33 <johnx> boring is just sleep-with-your-eyes-open time
Jan 22 14:12:39 <Veggen> Luckily, new and fun and exciting tends to happen at least often enough for work to be generally interesting.
Jan 22 14:13:18 <Veggen> I also work better when things happen fast.
Jan 22 14:15:58 <johnx> well, I appear to have X running to some degree
Jan 22 14:16:13 <jott> johnx: nice.. what was it?
Jan 22 14:16:54 <johnx> well, this is somewhat embarassing...I was waiting for the painful black-on-grey x server background
Jan 22 14:17:05 <johnx> but I guess they hardcoded xomap to give a white background
Jan 22 14:17:12 <jott> heh.. nice one ;)
Jan 22 14:17:27 <johnx> so it probably started working as soon as I tried xomap from inside the chroot
Jan 22 14:17:31 <johnx> but it works every time now
Jan 22 14:18:05 <johnx> I'll have to reboot and see if it works without problems the first time or if I have to look for some magic in ITOS
Jan 22 14:18:24 <johnx> woo
Jan 22 14:18:27 <johnx> now touch screen
Jan 22 14:18:52 <johnx> never been so happy to see xeyes :)
Jan 22 14:19:31 <jott> so build the Xomap for debian now ;)
Jan 22 14:20:04 <johnx> uhm...actually I stole the .deb from the maemo.org repo and it's running now
Jan 22 14:20:11 <johnx> I only had to fake one dependency
Jan 22 14:20:23 <johnx> later, I'll rebuild it to maintain "debian purity" or something
Jan 22 14:21:37 <Tak> mmm...virginal debian...
Jan 22 14:21:45 <johnx> The N800 is pretty warm...I think I need to dig into powersaving :/
Jan 22 14:22:01 <jott> that will be the really funny part i guess ;)
Jan 22 14:22:20 <johnx> yeah that and wifi will probably be hardest
Jan 22 14:22:27 <jott> (as there are probably many closed source nokia parts)
Jan 22 14:22:29 <Tak> mine gets warm just from my hands
Jan 22 14:22:45 * johnx shakes head
Jan 22 14:22:50 <johnx> not looking forward to that part
Jan 22 14:23:03 <johnx> Tak, This is actually sitting on a table in a cold room :)
Jan 22 14:23:04 <Tak> isn't the wifi driver oss now?
Jan 22 14:23:10 <Tak> johnx: that's not a good sign, then ;-)
Jan 22 14:23:14 <johnx> is it?
Jan 22 14:23:24 <johnx> I haven't been paying much attention
Jan 22 14:23:34 <Tak> I had thought it was; I could very definitely be mistaken
Jan 22 14:23:56 <johnx> either way it doesn't support Linux wireless extensions v18 so wpa supplicant won't work with it
Jan 22 14:24:12 <Tak> yeah, I noticed that
Jan 22 14:24:43 <Tak> I used to be in a network that only supported wep+peap
Jan 22 14:25:17 <johnx> I had hoped they brought it up to date, but they really have no incentive to do so as long as they use their own wacky wifi daemon
Jan 22 14:27:12 <johnx> it's incredibly responsive in windowmaker :)
Jan 22 14:29:31 <jott> jonnylamb: heh i would be shocked if not :)
Jan 22 14:29:36 <jott> oops.. johnx
Jan 22 14:30:10 <johnx> still, it's nice to see
Jan 22 14:30:16 <jott> indeed :)
Jan 22 14:31:15 <johnx> heh...my first instinct was to install xterm before I realized I had no keyboard
Jan 22 14:31:17 <matmo> johnx: can you check something else for me? Can you see if App Mgr reports any dependency conflicts for libasound2?
Jan 22 14:31:41 <johnx> er...my N800 is a little occupied right now
Jan 22 14:31:56 <johnx> I can check it with dpkg. will that work?
Jan 22 14:31:57 <matmo> oh yeah, I see :) Anyone else?
Jan 22 14:32:13 <matmo> don't know, try it
Jan 22 14:33:02 <jott> hm johnx https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/cx3110x-devel/2007-November/000005.html seen that?
Jan 22 14:33:19 <johnx> score!
Jan 22 14:33:20 <johnx> thanks
Jan 22 14:33:53 <|tbb|> is it possible to capture dbus events or tell the dbus events to run specific things i want? like  wlan status changed then tell  my application it has changed status?
Jan 22 14:38:19 <johnx> jott, thank you so much for digging that up. I would have had a long painful fight with wireless I'm sure
Jan 22 14:40:21 <jott> hey, i also would love a full debian as dual boot option :)
Jan 22 14:41:12 <johnx> hmm...it appears that my default language in debian is Catalan
Jan 22 14:52:47 <Dike> hello
Jan 22 14:53:14 <johnx> hi
Jan 22 14:53:35 <Dike> anyone know if there is a repository link
Jan 22 14:53:39 <bedboi> where can i find gst utils?
Jan 22 14:53:49 <Dike> to download nokia ufficial utilities?
Jan 22 14:53:53 <Dike> like skype?
Jan 22 14:54:03 <Dike> think ufficial server is not working
Jan 22 14:58:55 <michele_> ok, we have to get this on the IT :)
Jan 22 14:58:57 <michele_> http://collison.ie/wikipedia-iphone/?
Jan 22 15:01:04 <johnx> michele_, that's pretty slick
Jan 22 15:01:22 <matmo> michele_: already done? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14016&highlight=wikipedia
Jan 22 15:02:32 <matmo> (ish)
Jan 22 15:03:28 <michele_> matmo: nice, will check it
Jan 22 15:04:59 <michele_> matmo: gosh... last update was a year ago..
Jan 22 15:05:33 <matmo> was it! lol, i must have read it only recently
Jan 22 15:06:55 <michele_> however, that should have "DON'T PANIC" on the cover
Jan 22 15:07:34 <Tak> yeah, that's what should have been on the 770's hardcover
Jan 22 15:08:58 <pupnik> I still like my idea of replacement hardcovers with gaming controls on the sides
Jan 22 15:09:41 <johnx> I could see something like that working for the N810, but it would make the N800 rediculously long
Jan 22 15:09:50 <michele_> via bluetooth...
Jan 22 15:10:02 <michele_> mmh that's a marketable idea I think
Jan 22 15:10:18 <pupnik> that's the beauty of the slide on replacement hardcover.  Take the larger one with you if you want to game.  use the original if you don't
Jan 22 15:10:56 <liri> to start developing in py-gtk for n800 I don't need to mess around with scratchbox but rather simply apt-get python-gtk* and when I'm done I'll just cross-compile later and transfer to the n800 right?
Jan 22 15:11:01 <|tbb|> damn i dunno where my microusb cable is and got a reboot loop. have about 3 miniusb cable here but no microusb, grrr
Jan 22 15:11:19 <pupnik> liri: you don't need to compile with python
Jan 22 15:11:20 <lophyte> liri, if you're developing in python, there's no cross-compiling involved
Jan 22 15:11:23 <Tak> shouldn't need to cross-compile anything with...damn
Jan 22 15:11:36 <liri> right, but not even the gui?
Jan 22 15:11:40 <lophyte> no
Jan 22 15:12:09 <lophyte> everything you write in python will run on your PC and your n800 without any changes
Jan 22 15:12:13 <lophyte> including pygtk stuff
Jan 22 15:12:19 <liri> haven't done gtk before... I'm familiar with qt where the interface is different
Jan 22 15:12:27 <liri> nice
Jan 22 15:12:40 <liri> so I can just install pygtk on my desktop and mess around freely.
Jan 22 15:12:41 <|tbb|> any other way to prevent n810 from reboot loop without cable and kill watch dog thing
Jan 22 15:13:01 <liri> lophyte: what about pymaemo?
Jan 22 15:13:24 <johnx> jott, well I just built the wireless driver with that patch
Jan 22 15:13:54 <johnx> I'll copy the modules over and see what happens O_o
Jan 22 15:14:11 <lophyte> liri, pymaemo just won't work on your PC
Jan 22 15:14:28 <lophyte> python libraries are already compiled for the platform they're running on
Jan 22 15:14:47 * elb finally orders his N810
Jan 22 15:15:00 <liri> ok
Jan 22 15:15:37 <DeLe0n> elb are you in USA?
Jan 22 15:15:41 <elb> yeah
Jan 22 15:15:48 <DeLe0n> elb how much will it be?
Jan 22 15:15:55 <DeLe0n> did they ask for social security number?
Jan 22 15:16:16 <elb> $145 shipped, and no
Jan 22 15:16:20 <elb> (why would they?)
Jan 22 15:16:38 <DeLe0n> elb: they told me by email that i needed SSN... and i was like wtf...
Jan 22 15:16:55 <elb> I certainly didn't
Jan 22 15:17:12 <DeLe0n> also some mails on the mailing list of the guys who ordered it by phone got asked for SSN
Jan 22 15:17:18 <elb> just discount code, payment info, and phone number
Jan 22 15:17:34 <elb> maybe for some tax jazz?
Jan 22 15:17:40 <elb> are you getting a free unit?
Jan 22 15:17:49 <liri> elb: $145 for the N810? where from?
Jan 22 15:18:20 <Blafasel> Nice price. Was 360$ for me without discount from circuitcity
Jan 22 15:18:31 <GeneralAntilles> For the discount codes, liri.
Jan 22 15:18:41 <DeLe0n> elb: is that i'm from Mexico, and also got a discount code... but don't know if i could buy it with a mexican credit card... i have an address in TX, but, maybe i should tell a friend in USA
Jan 22 15:18:49 <DaniloCesar> 145?!?!?!?!? 99 (discount code) + ship?
Jan 22 15:18:58 <liri> GeneralAntilles: where do I get those discount codes? :)
Jan 22 15:19:03 <GeneralAntilles> You don't.
Jan 22 15:19:15 <GeneralAntilles> http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html
Jan 22 15:19:19 <liri> GeneralAntilles: but I'm a nice guy heh
Jan 22 15:19:33 <Blafasel> Nice, but too late to the party.
Jan 22 15:19:37 <DeLe0n> hehehe
Jan 22 15:19:37 <Blafasel> ;)
Jan 22 15:19:44 <liri> heh seems like that
Jan 22 15:19:58 <liri> does the code grant you just one device?
Jan 22 15:20:02 <DeLe0n> liri: but it has been hard... the waiting has been too long
Jan 22 15:20:05 <Tak> 145 == 99 * (EUR=>USD) exchange
Jan 22 15:20:45 <Tak> last year 99E was $120 :-/
Jan 22 15:20:46 <Blafasel> Ouch. Okay, the exchange rate is good for us and bad for the guys over there..
Jan 22 15:21:15 <Tak> Blafasel: getting better all the time, too
Jan 22 15:21:28 <liri> should've applied earlier heh
Jan 22 15:22:47 <liri> well on circuitcity it's like $480 now
Jan 22 15:23:16 <twi_> hi
Jan 22 15:23:24 <twi_> I need to detect if hildon is running from python
Jan 22 15:23:41 <twi_> the idea is to send a MethodCallMessage on the bus with set_autostart(False) and check if I get an error back
Jan 22 15:23:52 <twi_> do you know what object I could use and on which bus name?
Jan 22 15:24:24 <twi_> with d-feet I see that I have the com.nokia.hildon-desktop bus name when running under hildon
Jan 22 15:24:29 <twi_> but i can't see the objects exported by it
Jan 22 15:25:46 <lophyte> sweet, got KDE running on my n800...
Jan 22 15:26:18 <fysa> Is there a solution for sharing an iTunes library with an IT device?
Jan 22 15:26:42 <GeneralAntilles> iTunes 6. ;)
Jan 22 15:26:54 <fysa> that's what I was afraid of. ;)
Jan 22 15:27:16 <GeneralAntilles> EyeConnect works well for me.
Jan 22 15:27:16 <fysa> How about Firefly?
Jan 22 15:27:49 <fysa> hmm.
Jan 22 15:27:59 <fysa> Can EyeConnect read iTunes database?
Jan 22 15:28:11 <fysa> I really just want the playlists.
Jan 22 15:28:15 * pupnik kicks itunes in the nads
Jan 22 15:28:18 <fysa> and references.
Jan 22 15:28:42 <fysa> You know..
Jan 22 15:28:58 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, does playlists just fine.
Jan 22 15:29:01 <fysa> somebody did make an iTunes -> MythMusic playlist synchronizer.
Jan 22 15:29:04 <GeneralAntilles> Mildly expensive, though.
Jan 22 15:30:07 <fysa> If I could pull apart the iTunes database exporter, then filter the results with a regexp that converted each song to a URL link, it could be possible to make it work with mediaserv..
Jan 22 15:30:26 <GeneralAntilles> I'm surprised Canola doesn't support iTunes 7 yet.
Jan 22 15:30:39 <maddler> GeneralAntilles: just realized your really look like an italian comic actor :)
Jan 22 15:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> fysa, there's always mpd if you just want playback from the computer.
Jan 22 15:31:03 <GeneralAntilles> Sssh, maddler, I'm in hiding in the US.
Jan 22 15:31:21 <maddler> GeneralAntilles: lol! :D
Jan 22 15:31:31 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously, though, really? Which one?
Jan 22 15:31:37 <fysa> With mpd, you control from the computer and it plays on the IT (remote speakers)?
Jan 22 15:31:53 <maddler> GeneralAntilles: he's called Rubens
Jan 22 15:32:01 <johnx> depends on where mpd is running
Jan 22 15:32:01 <GeneralAntilles> Basically turns the N800 into a remote control for the computer.
Jan 22 15:32:07 <maddler> GeneralAntilles: kinda demential... but one of my favs :)
Jan 22 15:32:10 <GeneralAntilles> Playback wont be on the IT.
Jan 22 15:32:20 <fysa> ah, I see.
Jan 22 15:32:44 <fysa> close.  may be the right solution though..
Jan 22 15:33:09 <maddler> http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=hxQZNai5Iyg
Jan 22 15:33:10 <maddler> :D
Jan 22 15:33:13 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise there's UPnP
Jan 22 15:33:24 <Spakman> alterego: how is the GtkMozEmbed stuff going?
Jan 22 15:33:32 <maddler> sorry... it's in italian... :)
Jan 22 15:33:44 * Spakman gets all excited about GtkMozEmbed with Ruby
Jan 22 15:33:57 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise you could write a some sort of zeroconf interface for iTunes, fysa. ;)
Jan 22 15:34:08 <fysa> MPD will be good when I get the HTPC back up and running (i.e., waiting for new 2.6GHz Mac Mini announcement ;))
Jan 22 15:34:12 <alterego> Spakman, not bad. Unfortunately I'm wrestling with a few servers I need online yesterday so Ruby maemo is taking a side line once again :/
Jan 22 15:34:37 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, kinda creepy, maddler. Good thing I cut my hair a couple years ago. ;)
Jan 22 15:34:52 <Spakman> alterego: ah, that's the way it goes :(
Jan 22 15:35:12 <alterego> Well, hopefully this week will be my last insanely busy week for a while.
Jan 22 15:35:41 * Spakman crosses fingers for alterego
Jan 22 15:35:48 <alterego> :)
Jan 22 15:35:55 <fysa> http://www.fireflymediaserver.org/
Jan 22 15:37:45 <fysa> That might work -- if you moved the music from iTunes back up a level
Jan 22 15:38:03 <fysa> or do we have no DAAP yet?
Jan 22 15:38:10 <pupnik> I still like the approach used by solmumaha 's knots media server best
Jan 22 15:38:13 <fysa> (gnome-vfs-daap)
Jan 22 15:38:23 <lophyte> anyone here using kde on n800?
Jan 22 15:39:30 <fysa> I'd like to use the N800 as an inclusive jukebox device, streaming from my media server from anywhere given enough bandwidth -- but without having to remake playlists on the device itself.
Jan 22 15:39:57 <maddler> GeneralAntilles: hehehehe
Jan 22 15:40:09 <fysa> that also means integration with my wife ;)
Jan 22 15:42:53 <alterego> Hahah
Jan 22 15:45:39 <fysa> Can you sync multiple mpd servers?
Jan 22 15:46:30 <fysa> hmm.
Jan 22 15:47:03 <fysa> mpd client on IT, mpd server on HTPC server -- mpd server plays music out to stream, IT client plays stream
Jan 22 15:47:31 <fysa> mpd server also plays stream
Jan 22 15:47:49 <johnx> jott, I figured out one of my big problems I think: /var/run was a dangling symlink
Jan 22 15:48:05 <fysa> to networked esound over LAN
Jan 22 15:48:35 <fysa> HTPC front end and desktops keep esd ready/waiting
Jan 22 15:49:22 <johnx> and woo! wireless, video, and touchscreen work in debian
Jan 22 15:49:48 <johnx> so far absent: powersaving, sound, access to the RTC (?!)
Jan 22 15:49:49 <fysa> that would come close, and almost 'synchronize' music from your IT and your home.
Jan 22 15:50:14 <Tak> hmm, esd doesn't work out of the box?
Jan 22 15:50:29 <fysa> haven't tried, but the executable seems to run?
Jan 22 15:50:34 <johnx> with that I will catch a couple hours sleep
Jan 22 15:50:35 <fysa> maybe listening mode has problems?
Jan 22 15:50:37 <johnx> 'night all
Jan 22 15:51:23 <fysa> my goal: If I'm driving and tethered, streaming music from home, I can walk in the door and have the same playlist/song be playing.
Jan 22 15:51:37 <fysa> (on the home theater receiver)
Jan 22 15:52:26 <jott> johnx: nice one!
Jan 22 15:52:37 <fysa> and vice versa.  I can pick my playlist before I get in the car, which would be nice for roadtrips.
Jan 22 15:53:14 <johnx> jott, yeah. I would have been hung up on wifi for days without that patch. with the patch it was just business as usual with wpa-supplicant
Jan 22 15:53:21 <fysa> anyway.  back to the real world.. will play more this weekend. ;)
Jan 22 15:53:37 <johnx> anyways, tablet and me need to sleep for a bit :)
Jan 22 15:53:43 <fysa> johnx: You're using debian-armel distro?
Jan 22 15:53:49 <johnx> yeah
Jan 22 15:53:55 <johnx> :D
Jan 22 15:53:59 <fysa> any desktop environment?
Jan 22 15:54:13 <johnx> I installed wmaker to make sure X works
Jan 22 15:54:23 <johnx> it's nice and fast but no good for a touch screen
Jan 22 15:54:29 <johnx> too much right click necessary
Jan 22 15:54:36 <johnx> will probably get matchbox setup
Jan 22 15:54:41 <fysa> is there a gnome-portable UI?
Jan 22 15:55:00 <glass> what, normal debian running on tablet? 810?
Jan 22 15:55:08 <johnx> glass, n800
Jan 22 15:55:13 <glass> nice man :)
Jan 22 15:55:27 <VRe> wireless works too?
Jan 22 15:55:30 <fysa> is matchbox what the new Linux-based UMPCs are using?
Jan 22 15:55:31 <johnx> heh...I talk about this for hours and only now people are interested
Jan 22 15:55:42 <johnx> fysa, it's what a lot of stuff uses
Jan 22 15:55:43 <Blafasel> Hmm.. Let's see how good iodine works
Jan 22 15:55:48 <johnx> including the tablets
Jan 22 15:55:49 <VRe> johnx: the time is now right? :)
Jan 22 15:55:58 <johnx> VRe, wireless works
Jan 22 15:55:59 <johnx> even wpa
Jan 22 15:56:04 <fysa> midinux?
Jan 22 15:56:13 <Tak> hah, how about wep+peap
Jan 22 15:56:33 <johnx> Tak, well wpa_supplicant works, so I would assume anything it can handle will be fine
Jan 22 15:56:37 <GeneralAntilles> I'm surprised there isn't some sort of networked synchronized playback solution for home audio.
Jan 22 15:56:39 <fysa> http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/intel_redflag_MIDinux_UI.jpg
Jan 22 15:56:40 <Tak> killer
Jan 22 15:56:51 <VRe> Tak: I would think that anything which works with desktop works now on nokia too
Jan 22 15:57:07 <Tak> VRe: you would think so, but that hasn't been the case to date...
Jan 22 15:57:09 <johnx> VRe, that's the motivation
Jan 22 15:57:21 <johnx> anything in the debian armel distro should work
Jan 22 15:57:24 <johnx> armel is armel
Jan 22 15:57:34 <VRe> GeneralAntilles: I think there was a plugin for xmms, and xmms has been ported so..
Jan 22 15:58:02 <jott> johnx: maybe you could write down somewhere what you did to get all running..
Jan 22 15:58:17 <johnx> jott, tomorrow :)
Jan 22 15:58:19 <VRe> johnx: now if the maemo stack would run on top of debian, we would have hacker free platform
Jan 22 15:58:21 <jott> sure..
Jan 22 15:58:31 <jott> guess it's quite easy when you know what to do ;)
Jan 22 15:58:32 <VRe> .. platform free for hackers I mean :)
Jan 22 15:58:37 <johnx> VRe, http://pkg-maemo.alioth.debian.org I think
Jan 22 15:58:38 <Tak> man, if we could get a debian-armel installer with busybox, hildon, and matchbox default...
Jan 22 15:59:13 <fysa> johnx: try installing hildon via debian-armel ;)
Jan 22 15:59:28 <johnx> the packages aren't done yet I think
Jan 22 15:59:34 <johnx> check the link
Jan 22 15:59:56 <VRe> and.. if debian will run on n770 too with wireless..
Jan 22 16:00:11 <fysa> http://ftp.debian-ports.org/debian-armel/pool-armel/main/libh/libhildonmime/
Jan 22 16:00:13 <johnx> VRe, now you see my grand scheme :D
Jan 22 16:00:15 <johnx> muahahaha
Jan 22 16:00:24 <johnx> fysa, they're missing a lot of stuff
Jan 22 16:00:29 <fysa> http://ftp.debian-ports.org/debian-armel/pool-armel/main/libh/libhildon/
Jan 22 16:00:29 <fysa> ah
Jan 22 16:00:34 <fysa> looks relatively recent
Jan 22 16:00:37 <fysa> which is promising
Jan 22 16:00:38 <johnx> it is
Jan 22 16:00:49 <johnx> the missing stuff is just waiting to be compiled :D
Jan 22 16:01:01 <VRe> johnx: I was thinking that maemo should be doable as it is done for the intel tablets too, but I was not so sure about the wireless - that it would work
Jan 22 16:01:02 <johnx> waiting for hildon-desktop and osso-gwconnect
Jan 22 16:01:22 <johnx> VRe, it's "doable" sure, but packaging it all nice is still a PITA
Jan 22 16:01:35 <VRe> johnx: SNAFU
Jan 22 16:01:57 <fysa> a debian-armel distro with hildon/kde/matchbox selection via xdm :)
Jan 22 16:02:14 <johnx> I figure more people will get interested once they see a running debian in a nice .tar.bz2
Jan 22 16:02:57 <johnx> and debian+maemo4.0 is a pretty nice looking route for the 770 people :)
Jan 22 16:03:10 <fysa> VRe: you know..  intel tablets could probably run scratchbox at native resolution via vmware faster than we can run it natively ;)
Jan 22 16:03:11 <VRe> johnx, does it run os2008 software or those need recompiling?
Jan 22 16:03:25 <Tak> hah, yeah - no need to continually backport software to ancient libs
Jan 22 16:03:28 * czr peeks
Jan 22 16:03:31 <VRe> fysa: Yeah, but how long :)
Jan 22 16:03:35 <VRe> bit battery
Jan 22 16:03:36 * Tak thwacks
Jan 22 16:03:48 <johnx> fysa, not the low power stuff
Jan 22 16:03:52 * czr expertly avoids the thwackery
Jan 22 16:03:54 <pupnik> http://developer.novell.com/wiki/index.php/Overview_of_GNU_Autotools
Jan 22 16:04:00 * Tak fails
Jan 22 16:04:04 <johnx> arstechnica was saying they might actually be slower clock-for-clock than arm stuff
Jan 22 16:04:27 <johnx> VRe, they might run if you sort out dependencies
Jan 22 16:04:33 <Tak> pupnik: http://sourceware.org/autobook/autobook/autobook_toc.html
Jan 22 16:04:39 <VRe> arm is quite speedy one, the thing is that it is just wrong architecture for some
Jan 22 16:04:42 <johnx> VRe, but hopefully the worst case will be just a quick recompile+repackage
Jan 22 16:04:54 <fysa> if we can get an 800MHz 256MB device out of Nokia, I would be a happy man
Jan 22 16:05:00 <pupnik> gah, TMI
Jan 22 16:05:08 <VRe> johnx: running os2008 is chroot is quick hack :)
Jan 22 16:05:20 <johnx> VRe, but double the RAM usage :/
Jan 22 16:05:28 <Tak> Tak thinks fysa meant: if we can get an 800MHz 256MB device with the same battery life we have now out of Nokia, I would be a happy man
Jan 22 16:05:28 <pupnik> ram consumes batter btw
Jan 22 16:05:28 <Tak> fysa: s/device/\& with the same battery life we have now/
Jan 22 16:05:48 <pupnik> stop reading my mind Tak
Jan 22 16:05:52 <fysa> well, indeed.  The reduction in die-size will get us part of the way.. :)
Jan 22 16:05:57 <VRe> fysa: havent you heard that mhz wars are over :)
Jan 22 16:06:12 <Tak> pupnik: stop leaving interesting articles lying around in it
Jan 22 16:06:20 <fysa> but even then, I just want the 800MHz in bursts here and there.
Jan 22 16:06:44 <bmidgley_> a better cpu would be great
Jan 22 16:06:53 <johnx> I'm actually really happy with the speed as is
Jan 22 16:07:06 <fysa> idle and stay at 180/200Mhz, but let me waste my battery when I need to run a spreadsheet.
Jan 22 16:07:06 <VRe> fysa: until somebody dumps full-hd video on the device and says.. aah it plays - though the battery life sucks :)
Jan 22 16:07:09 <bmidgley_> omap is really struggling to run a2dp encoder well...
Jan 22 16:07:15 <bmidgley_> pxa270 spanks it
Jan 22 16:07:30 <johnx> bmidgley, I think that's software
Jan 22 16:07:56 <bmidgley_> johnx I've been working on the encoder... same software runs in 2% cpu on pxa270
Jan 22 16:07:57 <johnx> I'll be able to prove it soon now that I have a debian env to test a2dp away from some of the brain damaged nokia stuff
Jan 22 16:08:02 <bmidgley_> and over 20% on omap
Jan 22 16:08:25 <johnx> bmidgley, that's a hell of a lot better than I see locally on either hardware, so where's the link?
Jan 22 16:08:30 <Tak> I'm pretty happy with the speed, except for high-intensity things like emulation
Jan 22 16:08:50 <bmidgley_> bluez-utils cvs head has some good new optimizations
Jan 22 16:09:05 <johnx> I'll be looking at that shortly
Jan 22 16:09:05 <bmidgley_> but some arm assembly will help a lot and we're still working that in
Jan 22 16:09:06 <VRe> johnx: there was just some dude from nokia on the maemo-list today or yesterday mailing about the maemos derivation from debian
Jan 22 16:09:08 <johnx> thanks for the heads up
Jan 22 16:09:12 <fysa> My attention span has evolved to 2008.  I want my device to accommodate my 2008 attention span, not devolve it back to 1998. ;)
Jan 22 16:09:30 <johnx> ah, awesome
Jan 22 16:09:42 <lophyte> hey all, anyone know how to get KDE to start on boot, rather than booting into the hildon destkop?
Jan 22 16:09:50 <lophyte> desk...top
Jan 22 16:09:51 <johnx> I retract anything I said about A2DP
Jan 22 16:10:03 <t_s_o> hmm?
Jan 22 16:10:24 <johnx> bmidgley, so are you working on A2DP for Nokia?
Jan 22 16:11:12 <VRe> johnx: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-January/014112.html
Jan 22 16:11:19 <johnx> VRe, thanks
Jan 22 16:11:24 * johnx reads
Jan 22 16:11:33 <bmidgley_> johnx not for nokia
Jan 22 16:11:46 <bmidgley_> I get a lot of help from Nokia guys, esp INdT
Jan 22 16:12:06 <|tbb|> maddler: welcome to the club
Jan 22 16:12:33 <johnx> bmidgley, do you have an N8x0?
Jan 22 16:12:50 <bmidgley_> johnx just ordered!! :)
Jan 22 16:12:54 <Tak> heh, I'm sure indt is very interested in better a2dp
Jan 22 16:12:59 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 16:13:04 <bmidgley_> ergh, I mean n810 just ordered, have an n800
Jan 22 16:13:22 <bmidgley_> johnx we think the real problem is the cache on omap
Jan 22 16:13:44 <johnx> did you post on itt on the a2dp thread?
Jan 22 16:13:45 <bmidgley_> 8 associations not 32 like on pxa and neo1973 (can't remember the cpu there)
Jan 22 16:14:00 <bmidgley_> johnx I have posted there not recently
Jan 22 16:14:05 <VRe> johnx: I should send the news about debian working to the devel-list.. I would think people would be more than interested :)
Jan 22 16:14:06 <johnx> ah, ok
Jan 22 16:14:09 <johnx> I remember your post
Jan 22 16:14:31 <johnx> VRe, hold off for one day, and I'll do a writeup and post it myself :)
Jan 22 16:15:06 <VRe> johnx: No, not me - the honor is yours
Jan 22 16:15:21 <johnx> heh
Jan 22 16:15:26 <johnx> it's just a hack right now
Jan 22 16:15:35 <johnx> debian doesn't even know what runlevel it's in
Jan 22 16:15:42 <VRe> johnx: typo.. /I/You/
Jan 22 16:15:54 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 16:16:18 <zoran> johnx, who -r
Jan 22 16:16:32 <johnx> zoran, nothing
Jan 22 16:16:36 <johnx> neat
Jan 22 16:16:37 <zoran> hm!
Jan 22 16:16:54 <johnx> I think I didn't have a real /var/run for much of boot
Jan 22 16:17:04 <johnx> that might have messed things up
Jan 22 16:17:05 <|tbb|> bmidgley what means we get better a2dp support, for example
Jan 22 16:17:23 <zoran> johnx,could you point me to docs and place to see the install media?
Jan 22 16:17:36 <johnx> zoran, install media?
Jan 22 16:17:51 <zoran> where you get distro? debian-arm?
Jan 22 16:17:55 <johnx> ah
Jan 22 16:18:02 <bmidgley_> |tbb| the better a2dp handling is out of the box in bluez-utils, the better in maemo
Jan 22 16:18:19 <johnx> zoran, http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiHowto
Jan 22 16:18:24 <ph|ber> anyone have kde on the 810?
Jan 22 16:18:25 <zoran> k
Jan 22 16:18:28 <bmidgley_> the "hack" to turn it on will get simpler and simpler
Jan 22 16:18:45 <|tbb|> hope you will find a nice way ;)
Jan 22 16:19:21 <johnx> zoran, quick version: make a debian chroot on an ext2/3 formatted sd card, get boot from sd working with fanoush's initfs, boot
Jan 22 16:19:32 <johnx> of course at that point you tablet will just sit there
Jan 22 16:19:48 <zoran> have to read first  :)
Jan 22 16:19:52 <johnx> the trick is to hijack one of the early scripts to get usbnet working
Jan 22 16:19:53 <zoran> and think second
Jan 22 16:20:18 <VRe> I think the best thing in long run with the debian running is that the cleanup and QA which is done for the packages - maemo really needs that
Jan 22 16:20:35 <zoran> the whole fun is in making the thing work, not the work system itself
Jan 22 16:20:54 <johnx> zoran, page down to where it talks about debootstrap
Jan 22 16:21:09 <zoran> see it
Jan 22 16:21:12 <johnx> you can do the first part on your desktop, and the second part from the tablet
Jan 22 16:22:04 <zoran> interesting reading
Jan 22 16:23:36 <johnx> anyways, now I really need to go to bed ;)
Jan 22 16:23:45 <johnx> I will put something on a wiki tomorrow
Jan 22 16:23:52 <johnx> 'night all
Jan 22 16:23:52 <maddler> |tbb| club?
Jan 22 16:25:02 <pupnik> VRe: that's the downside of the fragmentation of developers due to multiple portable linux distros.  I'd like to see ITOS get on more devices, or some convergence between distros.  Google's initiative is accursed in this regard.
Jan 22 16:25:36 * Tak just want to see debian on everything
Jan 22 16:25:37 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jan 22 16:26:05 <zoran> Tak, on coke?
Jan 22 16:26:18 <Tak> why not?
Jan 22 16:26:34 <GeneralAntilles> Dead raccoons?
Jan 22 16:26:40 <zoran> and wait to boot and open the bottle
Jan 22 16:27:11 <skibur> I got my four Wisdom Teeth Extracted on Friday
Jan 22 16:27:22 <skibur> I will code new Wisdom Teeth today.  Anybody have libnerve?
Jan 22 16:27:25 <VRe> pupnik: spot on, debian running on n8x0,n770,intel.. who cares as long it runs and the same stuff works on every platform the debian way :)
Jan 22 16:27:52 <zoran> if intended
Jan 22 16:27:57 <Tak> skibur: I uninstalled libnerve; it was just distracting me
Jan 22 16:28:06 <skibur> :)
Jan 22 16:28:48 <skibur> PenguinBait will join us soon this Friday
Jan 22 16:28:49 <skibur> :P
Jan 22 16:29:12 <pupnik> Is hildon going to become an official extension of gnome?
Jan 22 16:29:34 <VRe> pupnki: something like that
Jan 22 16:30:00 <zoran> maybe something like qnx could suit 770/800 just fine
Jan 22 16:30:12 <zoran> if it could be free
Jan 22 16:30:45 <Tak> pupnik: btw, I finished complete vala rewrite of xmaeme, complete with hildonizations for chinook and bora
Jan 22 16:32:50 <pupnik> cool
Jan 22 16:33:16 <pupnik> Tak, what dosbox needs is a way for users to specifcy config options on a per-game basis
Jan 22 16:33:57 <pupnik> there's a decent python frontend that does it - i didn't get the xmaeme part fully working but i'll check out your new version
Jan 22 16:34:16 <Tak> oh yeah - I haven't checked it into garage svn or done a release yet
Jan 22 16:34:27 <Tak> I can send you a source tarball if you'd like
Jan 22 16:34:35 <pupnik> no, please not yet
Jan 22 16:35:01 <pupnik> i need to learn profiling
Jan 22 16:37:36 <Tak> hah, I don't think profiling will do you much good with vala
Jan 22 16:39:23 <pupnik> yeah, but there has to be something i can do to improve dosbox performance
Jan 22 16:40:02 <fysa> vala compiles to C code, right?
Jan 22 16:40:11 <fysa> 'compiles'
Jan 22 16:40:22 <Tak> well, it compiles to native, with an intermediate C-code phase
Jan 22 16:40:37 <zoran> pupnik, I recall dosemu some years ago
Jan 22 16:41:02 <zoran> worked better, lower memory footprint
Jan 22 16:41:07 <fysa> how close is arm vs armel asm?
Jan 22 16:41:11 <pupnik> zoran: yes, that's the DOS equivalent to Wine.  Needs x86 cpu.
Jan 22 16:41:18 <zoran> ah
Jan 22 16:41:21 <Khertan> vala ??? an other new language ?
Jan 22 16:43:15 <Dasajev> http://live.gnome.org/Vala
Jan 22 16:43:30 <Tak> Tak thinks Khertan meant: vala ??? an AWESOME new language !
Jan 22 16:43:30 <Tak> Khertan: s/other(.*)\?/AWESOME\1!/
Jan 22 16:43:31 <Khertan> ouch i'm looking at
Jan 22 16:44:12 * Khertan think ...what yet an other language ... obj-c is so AWESOME ... why not use it with gtk !
Jan 22 16:44:44 <Khertan> i don't think it s a good idea to create a language for an api ...
Jan 22 16:45:34 <zoran> if it suits better...
Jan 22 16:45:55 <Tak> Khertan: it's not created for an api as much as using an api to implement language features
Jan 22 16:46:14 <Khertan> hum
Jan 22 16:47:52 <fysa> I believe it suits a multi-architecture same-UI memory-efficient get-it-done-now world fairly well.
Jan 22 16:47:52 <Khertan> it s look like a mix between c and java
Jan 22 16:47:58 <zoran> anywhere available ssleay for gregale?
Jan 22 16:48:23 <Tak> syntactically, it seems pretty similar to c#
Jan 22 16:48:29 <Khertan> fysa > i believe objc do it better ;)
Jan 22 16:48:41 <Khertan> yes it s look like ...
Jan 22 16:49:27 <Khertan> and seems to have some of this defect too :)
Jan 22 16:49:48 <Tak> Khertan: you just don't like it because it isn't python :-P
Jan 22 16:50:12 <Khertan> Tak > i don't like it because it s not python or objc :)
Jan 22 16:50:33 <Khertan> i can say i don't like it ... i m just not interested ... for the moment.
Jan 22 16:50:39 <Khertan> it s only a 0.1.6 release
Jan 22 16:52:05 <Khertan> hum ... bye ... come back to home
Jan 22 16:57:20 <nelson> Finally!
Jan 22 16:57:32 <olik> Why
Jan 22 16:58:26 <pupnik> has anyone here submitted open-source projects to governments / NGOs for sponsorship?
Jan 22 16:58:38 <olik> poor pupnik
Jan 22 17:03:33 <pupnik> that's literally true.  but i was wondering what I could do to encourage some smart person to develop dynamic recompiler for X86->ARM within dosbox.   Would make windows possible on the tablet.
Jan 22 17:05:09 <olik> poor pupnik
Jan 22 17:06:01 <zoran> rather pure pupnik
Jan 22 17:07:29 <zoran> btw, some1 used gnutls to tunnel pipe to remote server?
Jan 22 17:07:54 <olik> poor zoran
Jan 22 17:09:17 <zoran> olik looks to be java robot?
Jan 22 17:10:09 <olik> why
Jan 22 17:10:20 * zoran gone to feed dragons
Jan 22 17:11:24 <Tak> olik needs to be kicked
Jan 22 17:12:14 <olik> poor Tak
Jan 22 17:12:42 <Tak> see?
Jan 22 17:13:33 <olik> Tak: nobody wants your comments¨
Jan 22 17:13:47 <Tak> olik: likewise
Jan 22 17:14:02 <olik> nobody wants your answers either
Jan 22 17:14:06 <Tak> olik: likewise
Jan 22 17:14:42 <Veggen> hmm. I've lost my shortcut-toolbar on osso-xterm.
Jan 22 17:14:44 <olik> nobody wants your "likewise"
Jan 22 17:14:57 <Tak> olik: likewise
Jan 22 17:15:31 <Veggen> what's the version supposed to be on newest os2008 ?
Jan 22 17:16:33 <b0unc3> auhauhua K-lined :D
Jan 22 17:17:43 <michele_> I tought these people didn't exist anymore..
Jan 22 17:18:18 <GeneralAntilles> The world is full of unpleasant people.
Jan 22 17:18:44 <Tak> ...but you've got the pistol, so you get the pesos?
Jan 22 17:19:36 <fysa> pupnik: are any parts asm already?
Jan 22 17:20:43 <fysa> slightly interesting: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20071210.122721.48265ec1.en.html
Jan 22 17:27:00 <pupnik> fysa: no
Jan 22 17:29:48 <fysa> is arm/armel similar enough to take portions of the gp32x dosbox and smash them in?
Jan 22 17:43:48 <guardian> ah great, expect 500 emails from people now able to use their discount code on the devel list :D
Jan 22 17:44:24 <Tak> guardian: soon you'll be able to resubscribe
Jan 22 17:45:09 <guardian> yeah i was searching something using gmane and noticed there is still bandwith waste about the codes ;)
Jan 22 17:45:26 <thoughtfix> It's fixed?
Jan 22 17:45:29 <thoughtfix> yay
Jan 22 17:45:39 <Tak> should be about over; the US codes are fixed, and they were the last iirc
Jan 22 17:45:41 <thoughtfix> oh wait - I don't have a code
Jan 22 17:47:32 <michele_> "Given the necessary micro-mini-normal-USB adapters and gender-changer-adapters you can connect external harddiscs etc."
Jan 22 17:47:39 <michele_> what does this mean?
Jan 22 17:47:48 <michele_> what is a gender-changer-adapter?
Jan 22 17:48:00 <thoughtfix> It turns you from a boy into a girl
Jan 22 17:48:01 <|tbb|> male to female ;)
Jan 22 17:48:02 <GeneralAntilles> Cheaper than a sex change.
Jan 22 17:48:07 <thoughtfix> rofl
Jan 22 17:48:09 <michele_> rofl
Jan 22 17:48:21 <michele_> okay
Jan 22 17:48:39 <michele_> does that mean that I don't need software hacks to plug a USB storage?
Jan 22 17:48:48 <michele_> just the necessary cables?
Jan 22 17:49:02 <thoughtfix> I remember having to explain to my stepfather many years ago the package for a "male to male" thing in the trash.
Jan 22 17:49:26 <proteous> lol
Jan 22 17:49:28 <|tbb|> anyone else but maddler has problems with latest rfcomm or modest update which turns n810 into loop reboot
Jan 22 17:49:37 <michele_> I do
Jan 22 17:49:42 <thoughtfix> michele_: I am talking to Nokia about that now. I trust you read Kate's article?
Jan 22 17:49:47 <michele_> and other people in the forum and the ML
Jan 22 17:49:53 <michele_> thoughtfix: no
Jan 22 17:50:08 <thoughtfix> michele_: Go to maemo.org - it's the top story under "News"
Jan 22 17:50:37 <michele_> ooh great
Jan 22 17:50:38 * michele_ reads
Jan 22 17:50:56 <thoughtfix> I may be without tablet soon... My N800's battery only lasts for 6 hours standby and 2 hours use lately.
Jan 22 17:50:58 <|tbb|> what can i do when i dont got a microusb cable by hand
Jan 22 17:51:11 <thoughtfix> Order one ;)
Jan 22 17:51:43 <thoughtfix> Hey look! I'm in line to review a Sony Mylo Com-2
Jan 22 17:51:54 <GeneralAntilles> That thing has crazy dpi
Jan 22 17:52:11 <thoughtfix> Yeah... 800x480 on a smaller screen
Jan 22 17:52:17 <GeneralAntilles> 3.5"
Jan 22 17:52:19 <thoughtfix> You saw my CES side-by-side pictures?
Jan 22 17:52:23 <GeneralAntilles> Almost too high.
Jan 22 17:52:27 <thoughtfix> Oh ... I haven't published the albums yet
Jan 22 17:52:30 <thoughtfix> durr
Jan 22 17:52:38 <thoughtfix> Waiting to finish the Nokia interview first
Jan 22 17:52:48 <thoughtfix> Which, in turn, is waiting on the USB OTG question
Jan 22 17:53:04 <|tbb|> thoughtfix:  are you talking about usb otg or because of my reboot loop problem?
Jan 22 17:53:35 <thoughtfix> At CES, I mentioned that people keep asking me when they can plug in devices to USB OTG and have them "just work"
Jan 22 17:53:43 <thoughtfix> Victor said "Follow up with me over Email"
Jan 22 17:53:53 <thoughtfix> and now we're tracking down the answer together.
Jan 22 17:59:07 * jackster 's n800 arrived
Jan 22 17:59:21 <GeneralAntilles> 'grats
Jan 22 17:59:34 <jackster> hey GeneralAntilles
Jan 22 18:02:54 <lophyte> damn where's penguinbait
Jan 22 18:04:27 <michele_> uhm
Jan 22 18:04:49 <michele_> is it expected for me to see midgard's menu when I am logged on maemo.org?
Jan 22 18:05:56 <michele_> no, I think it wasn't
Jan 22 18:06:01 <michele_> as it just crashed
Jan 22 18:08:09 <lardman> afternoon
Jan 22 18:10:31 <ph|ber> anyway to overclock the 810?
Jan 22 18:11:23 <lardman> does the kernel side of cpufreq give any clues?
Jan 22 18:11:35 <korpios> ph|ber: I'm pretty sure it's already the same chip as the previous model, overclocked.
Jan 22 18:12:11 <korpios> So I don't think you can squeeze much more out of it.  ^_^
Jan 22 18:13:29 <michele_> korpios: I'm pretty sure the previous one was *underclocked*
Jan 22 18:14:15 <t_s_1> Mmm,  this is interesting. Right now im using pidgin on my N800 and the freedom universal bluetooth keyboard :)
Jan 22 18:14:40 <lardman> t_s_1: Why Pidgin, why not the build-in messenger?
Jan 22 18:15:12 <t_s_1> Good question, i had basically forgotten that it could do irc now :P
Jan 22 18:15:28 <ph|ber> korpios: just noticed that kde was a little slugish.. but.. oh well.. how do you right click ?
Jan 22 18:15:32 <korpios> Oh, well, if michele_ is right, maybe you can!
Jan 22 18:15:35 <lardman> I've not tried with IRC
Jan 22 18:15:47 <lcuk_2> technically according to ti, the omap 2420 can go from 330mhz to 1ghz, battery life onm the 8x0 might be measured in the seconds though ;)
Jan 22 18:15:55 <jacques-work> hmm that would be a good fight - pidgin / gaim historically has weak irc support
Jan 22 18:16:00 <korpios> ph|ber: I'm still waiting for mine; just ordered it today (since they just fixed the US store)  :-)
Jan 22 18:16:09 <lardman> I think Igor was going to put up a wiki page about the dividers
Jan 22 18:16:14 <korpios> lcuk_2: hah :)
Jan 22 18:16:19 <Tak> hah @ 1ghz
Jan 22 18:16:50 <lardman> Tak: warm hand at that speed I imagine
Jan 22 18:16:51 <ph|ber> Processor       : ARMv6-compatible processor rev 2 (v6l)
Jan 22 18:16:51 <ph|ber> BogoMIPS        : 160.68
Jan 22 18:16:52 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_2, I don't think the chips in our devices are rated for above 400MHz
Jan 22 18:16:52 <jacques-work> wait states for the RAM would be measured on both hands
Jan 22 18:17:09 <ph|ber> the 800s were getting like 320
Jan 22 18:17:14 <lcuk_2> gen, dont let facts stand in the way of a good joke :P
Jan 22 18:17:26 <lardman> ph|ber: bogomips?
Jan 22 18:17:35 <GeneralAntilles> ph|ber, it throttles.
Jan 22 18:17:37 <lcuk_2> and since its ti themselves that tell us this it must be true
Jan 22 18:17:38 <ph|ber> yes..
Jan 22 18:17:39 <lardman> ph|ber: What cpu frequency are you running at? cpufreq
Jan 22 18:17:41 <jacques-work> ph|ber, dynamic clocking
Jan 22 18:17:42 <thoughtfix> MIPS are Millions of Instructions Per Second
Jan 22 18:17:42 <ph|ber> thats a cpuinfo
Jan 22 18:17:51 <thoughtfix> But over time that became meaningless
Jan 22 18:18:01 <ph|ber> no such command.
Jan 22 18:18:17 <Tak> bogomips are amount of herring consumed per annum
Jan 22 18:18:28 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jan 22 18:18:37 <lardman> thoughtfix: I was asking what the 320 was measured in, not what a mip is; but thanks
Jan 22 18:18:56 <jacques-work> lol the other day I saw a wiki page comparing arm bogomips vs x86 (P3) bogomips
Jan 22 18:19:05 <jacques-work> as if that had any meaning whatsoever
Jan 22 18:19:31 <lcuk_2> Tak, are they unladen herrings?
Jan 22 18:19:48 <jacques-work> unladen English herrings
Jan 22 18:19:49 <lardman> http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/
Jan 22 18:20:27 <lcuk_2> english herrings are tiny
Jan 22 18:20:29 <maddler> any clue where rtcom stores account data?
Jan 22 18:21:07 <jacques-work> does OS2008 use VFP ?
Jan 22 18:21:17 <lardman> no
Jan 22 18:21:23 <jacques-work> aaaargh.
Jan 22 18:21:27 <lardman> ah, actually I'm not sure
Jan 22 18:21:35 <lardman> so I'll take that back, but I imagine not
Jan 22 18:21:37 <maddler> fighting against #2803!
Jan 22 18:21:39 <t_s_o> bah, trying irc with the buildt in chat is annoying, as the input fields insist on making the first letter upper case by default...
Jan 22 18:21:51 <Tak> I think you can turn that off in the control panel
Jan 22 18:21:53 <GeneralAntilles> Turn off auto-capitalization.
Jan 22 18:21:55 <jacques-work> t_s_o, that might be configurable
Jan 22 18:21:59 * Tak winnar
Jan 22 18:22:01 <GeneralAntilles> Or just use xchat, as it's much better than both.
Jan 22 18:22:01 <jacques-work> yeah what GeneralAntilles said
Jan 22 18:22:02 <lcuk_2> lardman, wasnt vfp not included in the kernel because of the instruction size?
Jan 22 18:22:12 <jacques-work> double yeah what GeneralAntilles said
Jan 22 18:22:16 <Tak> does the chinook xchat have plugin support?
Jan 22 18:22:16 <t_s_o> heh, i could not find xchat for os08
Jan 22 18:22:17 <ph|ber>   hardware limits: 165 MHz - 400 MHz
Jan 22 18:22:32 * GeneralAntilles does his song and dance.
Jan 22 18:22:33 <GeneralAntilles> http://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/
Jan 22 18:22:53 <lcuk_2> you cant use the half sized instructions with vfp so the kernel ends up much larger compiled if you use it
Jan 22 18:23:02 <lcuk_2> ^i think anyway
Jan 22 18:23:16 <jacques-work> half sized instructions == thumb ?
Jan 22 18:23:18 <lardman> lcuk_2: that was my understanding, yes
Jan 22 18:23:37 <lcuk_2> yer
Jan 22 18:23:37 <lcuk_2> didnt know the technical name ;)
Jan 22 18:23:40 <lardman> not the kernel presumably as you'd not use floating point there
Jan 22 18:23:53 <jacques-work> yeah I was thinking same thing
Jan 22 18:23:54 <lardman> but the rest of the system
Jan 22 18:23:56 <jacques-work> no FP in kernel
Jan 22 18:24:03 <thoughtfix> Ha! Six months ago I was denied into YouTube's affiliate/partner/revenue sharing program. Now they Emailed me asking me to apply again.
Jan 22 18:24:19 <jacques-work> thoughtfix, you are much more famous now
Jan 22 18:24:23 * lcuk_2 is just recalling from memory
Jan 22 18:24:54 <GeneralAntilles> thoughtfix, get them back, say no! :P
Jan 22 18:24:57 <t_s_o> hey thoughtfix, any more info on that limepc?
Jan 22 18:24:58 <jacques-work> heh
Jan 22 18:25:06 <thoughtfix> Haha
Jan 22 18:25:12 <lardman> I wonder if that's a limitation of GCC, it should be possible to switch to and from Thumb; shouldn't it?
Jan 22 18:25:17 <thoughtfix> t_s_o: I am waiting for an Email back from their VP in America
Jan 22 18:25:40 <lardman> i.e. use Thumb most of the time then switch to normal mode for vfp stuff
Jan 22 18:25:42 <thoughtfix> He's a ThoughtFix fan - watched my "how to release Linux devices" coffee with thoughtfix episode
Jan 22 18:25:47 <jacques-work> lardman, I dunno, the thumb / VFP limitation sounds vaguely familiar to me
Jan 22 18:25:59 <lcuk_2> lard, you would have thought so, but in the document i was reading i think that brings about its own problems
Jan 22 18:26:14 <lardman> fair enough, I've not read the docs in a while
Jan 22 18:26:38 <jacques-work> I guess in the general case, the space savings were worth the lower performance FP
Jan 22 18:26:50 <lardman> All you need to do it compile libm for vfp then link against that, then you can do fast maths if you so desire and ignore the rest of the system
Jan 22 18:26:59 <lardman> yes, exactly
Jan 22 18:27:01 <lcuk_2> hmmmm......   "It is possible to dynamically switch between the two instruction-sets, thus gaining the advantages of both."     http://www.simplemachines.it/doc/ARM_COMBO_ap01.html
Jan 22 18:27:24 <lardman> yes, I thought so, perhaps a GCC limitation then
Jan 22 18:27:26 <jacques-work> hmm, "possible" could mean lots of things ;-)
Jan 22 18:27:31 <lardman> :)
Jan 22 18:27:46 <lcuk_2> The GNUPro compilers are able to produce code for both the ARM and Thumb instruction sets, but only at a file level of granularity. Thus the programmer can choose whether individual functions should be encoded as either ARM or Thumb instructions, but they cannot specify that specific parts of a function should be ARM or Thumb.
Jan 22 18:28:55 <ph|ber> ahh!
Jan 22 18:28:58 <Tak> that can't be of extremely high usefulness anyway
Jan 22 18:29:01 <ph|ber> echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
Jan 22 18:29:26 <T][s][o> there we go
Jan 22 18:29:48 <T][s][o> thanks for the link GeneralAntilles
Jan 22 18:29:51 <kulve> switching between thumb and non-thumb is slow on armv6
Jan 22 18:30:02 <lardman> lcuk_2: so does file level mean complied file level or object file level?
Jan 22 18:30:14 <lardman> s/compiled/end binary
Jan 22 18:30:39 <lardman> kulve: ah, well that will be the kicker then
Jan 22 18:30:46 <lcuk_2> it says the gnupro toolkit includes 2 seperate compilers which produce the different instruction sets, so i would say per resultant object file
Jan 22 18:31:06 <lardman> assuming they can then be linked together that is
Jan 22 18:31:15 <maddler810> heya lardman... how is your course going?
Jan 22 18:31:15 <T][s][o> one annoying thing about this keyboard is the placement of the enter key. i keep hitting it when im going for right shift...
Jan 22 18:31:40 <lcuk_2> When the assembled object files are linked together the linker will generate special code to switch between the two instruction sets whenever a call is made from an ARM function to a Thumb function or vice versa.
Jan 22 18:31:44 <lardman> maddler810: not too bad thanks
Jan 22 18:32:13 <lardman> maddler810: busy though, teaching all day then refining next day's notes in the evening; feeling a bit tired
Jan 22 18:32:39 <maddler810> lardman: I know the feeling ;)
Jan 22 18:33:10 <lardman> maddler810: it's good though, nice to have students who want to learn, nice feeling imparting knowledge :)
Jan 22 18:33:36 <Tak> students who want to learn?  I thought they were extinct!
Jan 22 18:33:47 <ph|ber> ok.. so this could be a pain.
Jan 22 18:33:49 <maddler810> lardman: yeah... that makes you feel apreciated...
Jan 22 18:33:55 <lardman> Tak: doctorate students
Jan 22 18:34:15 <lcuk_2> tak, find the classes where the students pay to be there and you will find the attentionspan increases
Jan 22 18:34:23 <ph|ber> 810.
Jan 22 18:34:28 <ph|ber> booting from internal mmc with kde.
Jan 22 18:34:30 <lardman> maddler810: also nice to feel you can explain the mysteries of for loops and if statements :D
Jan 22 18:34:39 <Tak> lcuk_2: not undergrad college students in the US
Jan 22 18:34:40 <lardman> oops, being summoned to do the washing up, back soon
Jan 22 18:34:41 <ph|ber> i also have a 4gig microsd card in.
Jan 22 18:34:49 <ph|ber> wont boot from mmc if its in..
Jan 22 18:34:49 <dhd> lardman: hey, I was looking for the ogg dsp code, have you put it up on the project page yet?
Jan 22 18:34:54 <|tbb|> maddler found your cable?
Jan 22 18:35:00 <lardman|washing> dhd: no
Jan 22 18:35:02 <dhd> ah
Jan 22 18:35:07 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_2, only sorta, plenty of stupid required classes to waste your time as an undergrad. ;)
Jan 22 18:35:11 <lardman|washing> dhd: give me 10min and I'll have a chat
Jan 22 18:35:21 <lardman|washing> dhd: need to add the GPL to the files then upload
Jan 22 18:35:23 <dhd> that's okay I should be working on my PhD thesis anyway :)
Jan 22 18:35:31 <dhd> but I would like to take a look at it
Jan 22 18:35:37 <t_s_o> so, anyone else having trouble connecting to msn using the rtcomm "beta"?
Jan 22 18:35:41 <lardman|washing> dhd: you need something to distract you of course :)
Jan 22 18:35:55 <|tbb|> is the  led  in n810 a more color led or are there just three leds inside?
Jan 22 18:36:11 <ph|ber> anyone have any ideas?
Jan 22 18:36:49 <GeneralAntilles> I think it's three that give you RGB, |tbb|.
Jan 22 18:37:15 * lcuk_2 turned off the throbbing orb of annoyance
Jan 22 18:39:12 <dhd> sometime this week I am going to look at TI DSPlib
Jan 22 18:39:35 * dhd idly wonders if there exists a free optimized DSP/math library for ARMv5TE
Jan 22 18:39:38 <Tak> lcuk_2: you turned off the internet?
Jan 22 18:39:52 <jacques-work> lol
Jan 22 18:39:57 <lcuk_2> not me, think GeneralAntilles caught that big red button again
Jan 22 18:40:19 <GeneralAntilles> I just can't help it. :(
Jan 22 18:40:29 <lcuk_2> anyone notice when your connection goes down you open more windows and get more lag
Jan 22 18:40:45 <|tbb|> better turned off as deleted
Jan 22 18:41:02 <pupnik> the jolly, candy-like button
Jan 22 18:41:04 <lcuk_2> no, dont delete the internet - im nearly at 5000 posts on slash
Jan 22 18:41:10 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Jan 22 18:41:45 <GeneralAntilles> You gotta browse at -1 to see them though.
Jan 22 18:42:26 <lcuk_2> :P
Jan 22 18:42:40 * lcuk_2 has had more firstposts than most people have had hot dinners :S
Jan 22 18:42:44 <lcuk_2> is that really something to brag about
Jan 22 18:43:01 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Jan 22 18:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> I just read /.
Jan 22 18:43:35 <lcuk_2> mind you, ive been posting there now for (jeesus) 8 years
Jan 22 18:43:49 <GeneralAntilles> How many digits? :P
Jan 22 18:44:34 <lcuk_2> oh i got there way after the goldrush, need at least 10 (almost 11 now) for anything less than 6
Jan 22 18:46:18 * lcuk_2 didnt even have internet until '99
Jan 22 18:46:19 <t_s_o> hmm, i find a setting for correcting case with handwriting, but nothing about the onscreen or bluetooth keyboard...
Jan 22 18:47:32 <t_s_o> gah, found it. i had to go into the settings for each dictionary!
Jan 22 18:48:47 <lcuk_2> hmmmm.. google only lists the first 100 pages of results
Jan 22 18:59:59 <MoRpHeUz> anybody here coming to bossaconference ?
Jan 22 19:00:22 <Tak> did you mail me plane tickets?
Jan 22 19:00:45 <MoRpHeUz> Tak: =P
Jan 22 19:03:08 <t_s_o> oh crap, seems i have the reboot loop :(
Jan 22 19:03:14 <lardman> dhd: I need to get on and publish that code
Jan 22 19:03:25 <t_s_o> should have seen that one coming when the chat started erroring on me
Jan 22 19:03:40 <maddler> t_s_o: installed rtcom?
Jan 22 19:03:40 <b0unc3> t_s_o: me too :(
Jan 22 19:03:42 <lardman> dhd: but have been busy this week teaching & preparing the course, etc
Jan 22 19:03:44 <Tak> hah, I stopped getting the reboot loop on my 770 when I added more swap
Jan 22 19:04:16 <b0unc3> Tak: I have 128mb of swap enabled...
Jan 22 19:04:46 <t_s_o> and i finally figured out why msn wasnt working, i needed to set the nickname. should have been a warning about that...
Jan 22 19:05:21 <t_s_o> gah, and i do not have ssh installed :( so i guess my only option is to do the firmware dance...
Jan 22 19:05:32 <t_s_o> typical...
Jan 22 19:05:53 <Tak> heh, you probably don't need more on an n8[01]0
Jan 22 19:05:58 <|tbb|> how to search irclogs with  exact phrases
Jan 22 19:06:17 <|tbb|> maddler found your cable?
Jan 22 19:06:40 <felipec> t_s_o: how do you use msn?
Jan 22 19:07:01 <t_s_o> well right now pidgin is the best option, as the rtcomm stuff is buggy...
Jan 22 19:09:04 <felipec> t_s_o: yeah, I agree, but it's just telepathy-haze
Jan 22 19:09:13 <t_s_o> hmm?
Jan 22 19:09:34 <felipec> t_s_o: telepathy haze is the one that provides msn through libpidgin
Jan 22 19:09:45 <t_s_o> yep
Jan 22 19:09:48 <felipec> er, libpurple
Jan 22 19:10:18 <|tbb|> hmmh
Jan 22 19:10:21 <t_s_o> point is that it integrates with the buildt in contact manager rather then being a stand alone app...
Jan 22 19:11:35 <Tak> man - I wish they'd released the doom3 theme
Jan 22 19:12:00 <lcuk_2> black on black and automatic backlight disabled on the screen?
Jan 22 19:13:08 <Tak> https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/2283/SkinProgramMail.jpg
Jan 22 19:13:27 <t_s_o> hmm, no way of telling the N800 not to start rtcomm on boot?
Jan 22 19:14:08 <lcuk_2> tak, thats actually quite nice
Jan 22 19:15:12 <Tak> yes, it is
Jan 22 19:15:19 <Tak> but they never did a file release
Jan 22 19:26:57 <elb> where is my N810
Jan 22 19:27:00 <elb> I ordered it hours ago
Jan 22 19:27:01 <elb> ;-)
Jan 22 19:28:30 <GeneralAntilles> Go conk yourself over the head with a hammer
Jan 22 19:28:34 <GeneralAntilles> it'll be there in no time.
Jan 22 19:30:45 <jeff1f> I found one on the street a few minutes ago
Jan 22 19:30:49 <jeff1f> to: elb
Jan 22 19:30:54 <jackster> is it nnormal for the n800's screen to distort slightly under pressure from the stylus?
Jan 22 19:31:02 <elb> jeff1f: that's mine, the FedEx guy must have dropped it
Jan 22 19:31:27 <jackster> like when you touch a flat screen tv or laptop screen
Jan 22 19:31:50 <fysa> I believe so.
Jan 22 19:31:51 <fysa> mine does ;)
Jan 22 19:32:03 <fysa> has anyone tried X11 forwarding to an IT?
Jan 22 19:32:35 <GeneralAntilles> There are some posts about in on ITT, fysa.
Jan 22 19:32:36 <GeneralAntilles> It works.
Jan 22 19:33:39 <unique311> what's new with The Maemo?
Jan 22 19:34:54 <pupnik> slightly faster dosbox build here unique311... do you have chinook sdk
Jan 22 19:34:56 <pupnik> ?
Jan 22 19:35:09 <unique311> yes
Jan 22 19:35:28 <fysa> "Hildon would handle the X11 fowarding, but very poorly. XFCE (Openbox and even KDE, for that matter) handles it smoothly. Highly recommended for those of you with Linux desktops."
Jan 22 19:35:45 <fysa> "I get full Firefox, Evolution, even OpenOffice on my n800 while sitting in the living room at the speed of my desktop."
Jan 22 19:35:51 <Tak> unique311: latest gngeo any difference?
Jan 22 19:36:02 <fysa> time to get KDE working :)
Jan 22 19:36:05 <unique311> the beta you let me try out? Tak
Jan 22 19:36:23 <Tak> I sent you a new one a few days ago
Jan 22 19:36:33 <unique311> let me check my email
Jan 22 19:37:36 <unique311> Found it.
Jan 22 19:37:49 <unique311> let me give it a try.
Jan 22 19:37:53 <unique311> i'll let you know
Jan 22 19:38:01 <LinuxCode> hiiiiiii ;-D
Jan 22 19:39:24 * LinuxCode loves his N810
Jan 22 19:39:35 <Tak> careful, that voids the warranty
Jan 22 19:39:36 <LinuxCode> few little issues but still ...
Jan 22 19:39:57 <LinuxCode> I need to figure out how to flash it to bring it up2date
Jan 22 19:40:03 <fysa> if I get too much use out of this N800 I may actually have to replace it with the N810 .. :/
Jan 22 19:40:28 <LinuxCode> fysa, haha
Jan 22 19:40:42 <LinuxCode> only quibble I have is the GPS
Jan 22 19:40:48 <LinuxCode> its rubbish
Jan 22 19:40:55 <LinuxCode> takes a long time to get a position
Jan 22 19:41:09 <LinuxCode> however, thats more a gps issue and environment
Jan 22 19:41:26 <fysa> I would tend to blame Nokia still ;)
Jan 22 19:41:27 <elb> how long is a "long time" ?
Jan 22 19:42:07 <LinuxCode> elb, hmm like 5 mins to get a position
Jan 22 19:42:15 <LinuxCode> or so...
Jan 22 19:42:18 <LinuxCode> I havent timed it
Jan 22 19:42:23 <fysa> not quick enough to win any scavenger hunts
Jan 22 19:42:40 <LinuxCode> + then environment wise...lets say trains to exactly leave rays through in the ghz band
Jan 22 19:42:40 <elb> sounds like it doesn't try to sync from its last known position
Jan 22 19:42:52 <lardman> hmm, mine got a position from cold faster than that
Jan 22 19:42:58 <Tak> hmm, what's the stock resolution on a gbc rom?
Jan 22 19:42:59 <LinuxCode> -to do not
Jan 22 19:43:05 <LinuxCode> sorry been up since 3am
Jan 22 19:43:19 <LinuxCode> lardman, hmmm
Jan 22 19:43:24 <LinuxCode> did you flash yours mate ?
Jan 22 19:43:33 <LinuxCode> theres an update out
Jan 22 19:43:38 <fysa> low enough that we should be able to run it full speed  :)
Jan 22 19:43:40 <elb> Tak: I *think* the GBC is 320x320, but I'm sure some fan site out there knows for sure :-)
Jan 22 19:43:43 <LinuxCode> im not keen on losing all my setup though
Jan 22 19:43:55 <fysa> 160x144?
Jan 22 19:44:08 <lardman> LinuxCode: yep, latest flash image
Jan 22 19:44:14 <LinuxCode> k
Jan 22 19:44:21 <LinuxCode> might be a bugfix ..maybe
Jan 22 19:44:24 <pupnik> cool we gots netcat for os2008
Jan 22 19:44:29 <pupnik> fastrn scp
Jan 22 19:44:30 <fysa> yeah, 160x144.  GBA is 240x160
Jan 22 19:44:33 <elb> Tak: holy crap, 160x144
Jan 22 19:44:39 <elb> man, that's horrid
Jan 22 19:44:45 <elb> it seems much better than that sitting in front of it
Jan 22 19:44:45 <LinuxCode> pupnik, got a list handy ?
Jan 22 19:44:47 <lardman> LinuxCode: I've not used it since then mind you, so perhaps it's slower the second time round ;)
Jan 22 19:44:49 <pupnik> that's why i don't like those games
Jan 22 19:44:56 <LinuxCode> lardman, hehe
Jan 22 19:45:16 <LinuxCode> one thing I noticed
Jan 22 19:45:19 <pupnik> Filename: pool/maemo4.0/free/n/netcat/netcat_1.10-32osso1_armel.deb
Jan 22 19:45:29 <LinuxCode> is that hildon also takes some time to build the appz list in the menu
Jan 22 19:45:49 <LinuxCode> pupnik, there has to be a full list somewhere
Jan 22 19:45:50 <LinuxCode> ;-D
Jan 22 19:45:54 <Tak> hmm...not enough to make it 4x
Jan 22 19:46:09 <fysa> SNES is 256x224 (most games) to 512x448
Jan 22 19:46:20 * LinuxCode checks remo stuff on site
Jan 22 19:46:47 <GNUton> Hi
Jan 22 19:46:55 <elb> 512x448 is higher resolution than PAL can actually display
Jan 22 19:47:06 <elb> err, than NTSC can actually display, sorry
Jan 22 19:47:21 <elb> PAL gets closer
Jan 22 19:47:33 <fysa> I believe you would lose some in overscan/transmission/conversion..
Jan 22 19:47:44 <fysa> but I believe that res is rather rare
Jan 22 19:47:58 <elb> overscan is only relevant for width, and that's more height than NTSC can render
Jan 22 19:48:07 <GNUton> have someone compiled snes emulator for maemo?
Jan 22 19:48:13 <fysa> doesn't mean the pixels aren't there :)
Jan 22 19:48:20 <fysa> you just can't see them ;)
Jan 22 19:48:22 <elb> but, it likely samples from al arger resolution than it sends out on its video signal
Jan 22 19:48:25 <elb> that's not an uncommon trick
Jan 22 19:48:42 * fysa used an Amiga 500 on a regular TV at one point..
Jan 22 19:49:45 <fysa> the horrors of video signals
Jan 22 19:49:58 <elb> TVs are really crappy
Jan 22 19:50:11 <elb> not only are they low resolution, but they don't actually have pixels
Jan 22 19:50:16 <Tak> GNUton: pupnik built snes9x, but it was pretty slow
Jan 22 19:50:37 <fysa> is there an svn with it?
Jan 22 19:50:47 <fysa> or was that just raw snes9x compiled in sb?
Jan 22 19:51:28 * lardman hates compact keyboards, why change the position of Insert, delete, home, end, etc. AArrrgh!
Jan 22 19:52:09 <thoughtfix> Okay ... I need developer and community advice
Jan 22 19:52:27 <lardman> fire away
Jan 22 19:52:35 <unique311> the answer is yes
Jan 22 19:52:41 <Tak> Double yes.
Jan 22 19:52:43 <fysa> only if nobody catches you
Jan 22 19:52:49 <fysa> alleys are the best
Jan 22 19:52:59 <thoughtfix> Apparently, as a face of the community, I've been invited to speak at Openbossa in Brazil
Jan 22 19:53:23 <fysa> have you set your rate?
Jan 22 19:53:33 <unique311> Tak, having issues with xmaeme,  for some reason i have a version that doesn't allow me to choose neogeo bios folder.
Jan 22 19:53:49 <unique311> same issue i had before.
Jan 22 19:53:57 <unique311> but i forgot how i got pass it.
Jan 22 19:54:04 <GNUton> Tak: k
Jan 22 19:54:27 <thoughtfix> Well
Jan 22 19:54:39 <thoughtfix> I have three potential topics that are mostly-written editorials
Jan 22 19:54:47 <thoughtfix> that could easily become lectures to developers
Jan 22 19:55:08 <thoughtfix> "Don't Fear the Penguin" - about overcoming non-geeks' fear of Linux devices
Jan 22 19:55:30 <thoughtfix> "The Other Pocket" - making a case for secondary (non-phone) devices.
Jan 22 19:55:48 <thoughtfix> "Noise to Signal" on strategies for learning from community feedback without wasting time
Jan 22 19:56:33 <unique311> How about "The NIT motherf'n rocks....Go get one."
Jan 22 19:56:40 <dhd> "the other pocket" is a nice one... since one of the common complaints about the iPhone is that it isn't a very good phone
Jan 22 19:56:49 <lardman> I'd not do #1, it's quite a popular topic
Jan 22 19:56:58 <Tak> unique311: yeah, it's because os2008 doesn't have a GtkFileChooserButton
Jan 22 19:57:02 <lardman> i.e. there seem to be lots of articles about it
Jan 22 19:57:24 <unique311> Tak, i got it to work last time.
Jan 22 19:57:27 <fysa> I would do #1 twice, but targetted at the people in charge of making SDKs and buildkits because the developers don't care. ;)
Jan 22 19:57:31 <fysa> they just want to compile it and get it working.
Jan 22 19:57:53 <lardman> in which case you need to target the tutorial writers
Jan 22 19:57:59 <unique311> by uninstalling it, rebooting the device and then installing xmaeme again
Jan 22 19:58:02 <unique311> hope it works
Jan 22 19:58:14 <fysa> the SDK should come with instructions on branding something properly -- down to the little nuances of icon selection
Jan 22 19:58:25 <fysa> and (re)naming a package to suit the general public
Jan 22 19:58:40 <Tak> unique311: I'm sending a prerelease of the next xmaeme
Jan 22 19:58:46 <unique311> cool
Jan 22 19:58:49 <unique311> thanks
Jan 22 19:58:52 <Tak> np
Jan 22 19:58:54 <lardman> fysa: that is debian packaging, I have troubles with that
Jan 22 19:58:56 <elb> thoughtfix: I'd personally be interested in noise to signal
Jan 22 19:59:08 <fysa> package manager needs a checkbox for 'advanced mode'
Jan 22 19:59:08 <Tak> you'll be the first one to try it on os2008 since I've ported to vala ;-)
Jan 22 19:59:08 <elb> though I'm not going to be at any Brazilian conferences any time soon ;-)
Jan 22 19:59:14 <fysa> turn it off, you see friendly names (already in most debs!)
Jan 22 19:59:16 <lardman> fysa: or specifically for Maemo?
Jan 22 19:59:19 <fysa> turn it on, you see real names
Jan 22 19:59:21 <unique311> thoughtfix, go with #4
Jan 22 19:59:43 <fysa> many environments are affected
Jan 22 19:59:56 <fysa> as a developer, my #1 goal is to write myself out of a job.
Jan 22 20:00:00 <thoughtfix> .... 4?
Jan 22 20:00:18 <unique311> How about "The NIT motherf'n rocks....Go get one."   4
Jan 22 20:01:01 <fysa> make it once, make it right, make it usable by everyone, release it and move on.
Jan 22 20:01:19 <fysa> the hildon taskbar full of generic 'tool' icons is no fun
Jan 22 20:02:13 <thoughtfix> rofl
Jan 22 20:02:29 <thoughtfix> I think noise-to-signal is the preferred
Jan 22 20:02:31 <pupnik> netcatting a tgz over wep to N810 with kingston 4gb miniSDHC gives me about 800kB/s
Jan 22 20:02:38 <unique311> Tak, thanks.
Jan 22 20:02:42 <unique311> option is there now.
Jan 22 20:03:22 <fysa> how much CPU is wasted on WPA-PSK encryption?
Jan 22 20:03:28 <fysa> maybe that's why nfs is so cpu hungry.
Jan 22 20:03:48 <alterego> Heh
Jan 22 20:03:54 <glass> hehe
Jan 22 20:04:03 <lardman> does the omap have wpa-psk helper hw?
Jan 22 20:04:23 <fysa> pupnik is closest to testing ;)
Jan 22 20:04:32 <fysa> he already has the netcat line in his history
Jan 22 20:04:49 <pupnik> thoughtfix: good subjects btw.  no preferences here
Jan 22 20:05:23 <GeneralAntilles> I like noise-to-signal, but all of them sound really interesting.
Jan 22 20:05:38 <elb> thoughtfix: I think "noise to signal" has the highest usefulness content to other projects, if that's part of the goal :-)
Jan 22 20:05:58 <elb> I know Pidgin experiences a very low S:N ratio in its user feedback
Jan 22 20:06:05 <pupnik> if the developers there are from non-tablet camps, the 2nd topic could be worthwhile also
Jan 22 20:06:59 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, #2 or #3 depending on the audience.
Jan 22 20:06:59 <thoughtfix> Thanks
Jan 22 20:07:01 <thoughtfix> :D
Jan 22 20:07:01 <pupnik> cause i think it's a subject missed by some people who like portable *nix... the advantages of a seperate tablet computery thing instead of packing all functions onto a phone
Jan 22 20:07:26 <thoughtfix> I've been sort of a filter for a number of developers
Jan 22 20:07:32 <thoughtfix> They send me stuff they're working on
Jan 22 20:07:39 <thoughtfix> I demo it and get feedback
Jan 22 20:07:43 <elb> yeah, I had a run-in with some dude a while back who had this GIANT wonder-phone thing, that was a pocket computer, telephone, camera, etc.
Jan 22 20:07:48 <elb> this was in like 2004, so it was truly giant
Jan 22 20:07:48 <thoughtfix> Then distill the crap out of the feedback and send it back
Jan 22 20:08:20 <elb> and I said something about not being impressed with the concept, and he started to make fun of me, talking about "bat belts" and crap ... I just shook my head and walked away
Jan 22 20:08:37 <lcuk_2> NEVER walk away from batman
Jan 22 20:08:46 <unique311> thoughtfix, how about,  "Motherfuck'n Noise-to-signal" on Motherfuck'n strategies for Motherfuck'n learning from community Motherfuck'n feedback without Motherfuck'n wasting Motherfucki'n time.
Jan 22 20:08:48 <fysa> haha
Jan 22 20:08:53 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, i watched it too
Jan 22 20:08:55 <LinuxCode> ;-]
Jan 22 20:08:58 <LinuxCode> hey mate
Jan 22 20:09:00 <elb> of course, he was an Australian in the US, and the first thing I was thinking was, "most of the things I carry on my belt you are forbidden to own"
Jan 22 20:09:03 <lcuk_2> evening
Jan 22 20:09:06 <elb> but I didn't want to go down that route ;-)
Jan 22 20:09:18 <LinuxCode> how was ya day ?
Jan 22 20:09:26 <thoughtfix> unique311: I don't think they'll let me take snakes on a plane
Jan 22 20:09:35 <lcuk_2> first day after the weekend back in work so it was meh
Jan 22 20:09:38 <unique311> lol
Jan 22 20:09:42 <LinuxCode> hehe
Jan 22 20:09:52 <LinuxCode> i had a deadline
Jan 22 20:09:57 <LinuxCode> sucked
Jan 22 20:10:14 <LinuxCode> 18 pages or so of crap
Jan 22 20:10:19 <unique311> sorry about that, i just saw the movie.
Jan 22 20:10:25 <lcuk_2> luckily i am ahead with mine so a sicky day yesterday isnt too much
Jan 22 20:10:34 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, tehe
Jan 22 20:10:57 <Tak> unique311: so...do the buttons show up?
Jan 22 20:11:07 <unique311> well stuff happened Tak.
Jan 22 20:11:11 <unique311> lots of bad stuff
Jan 22 20:11:24 <unique311> i just restarted the device.
Jan 22 20:11:35 <Tak> uhh...
Jan 22 20:11:38 <unique311> lol
Jan 22 20:11:38 <LinuxCode> im just eating pizza then im having a good long sleep
Jan 22 20:12:08 * lcuk_2 can still smell the pizza
Jan 22 20:12:23 * LinuxCode gives lcuk_2 a piece
Jan 22 20:12:26 <lcuk_2> +garlic bread+curry
Jan 22 20:12:28 <lcuk_2> no ta, just eaten
Jan 22 20:12:32 <LinuxCode> ;-]
Jan 22 20:12:56 <lcuk_2> in linux (desktop) is there any analog to senkkeys() on windows?
Jan 22 20:13:04 <lcuk_2> sendkeys^
Jan 22 20:13:40 * lcuk_2 wonders how to get his remote control server controlling a media player
Jan 22 20:14:18 <unique311> Tak, still no buttons.  but emulator takes longer to start.
Jan 22 20:14:52 <Tak> hooray!
Jan 22 20:15:09 <unique311> the games im playing is still fast.  sound is still really loud.
Jan 22 20:15:18 <Tak> well, with US device program now working, it should only be another month or so :-P
Jan 22 20:16:01 <unique311> going to run gngeo from the command line
Jan 22 20:16:12 <pupnik> pls lemme know if you find out how to get n810 Fn+ numbers working in sdl
Jan 22 20:16:26 <pupnik> without handling the keymapping at the app level
Jan 22 20:17:58 <Tak> shouldn't be any difference @ command line
Jan 22 20:18:13 <unique311> just figured that out.
Jan 22 20:18:31 <unique311> but metal slug is really nice on it.
Jan 22 20:18:45 <unique311> Just have to let the screen go black
Jan 22 20:18:59 <unique311> and when i turn it  back on, the buttons show up.
Jan 22 20:19:02 <unique311> no biggie.
Jan 22 20:19:47 <unique311> finally have a descent amount of working roms for MAME
Jan 22 20:20:06 <unique311> now to Locate some for GBA.
Jan 22 20:22:34 <unique311> Tak, that comment about the emu starting slower was premature.
Jan 22 20:23:11 <unique311> it was actually the game.  I just tried another game and it started up really quickly
Jan 22 20:23:46 <Tak> yeah, it can be significantly different for each one
Jan 22 20:24:00 <Tak> like samsho is fairly quick compared to mslug
Jan 22 20:24:42 <pupnik> snes9x on N8x0 runs like a constipated grandmother with a blown knee
Jan 22 20:26:21 <pupnik> i wonder if anyone's maemo google search will return that analogy
Jan 22 20:29:41 <fysa> unique311: you on 810 or 800?
Jan 22 20:29:53 <unique311> 800
Jan 22 20:30:03 <unique311> outdated, lol
Jan 22 20:30:15 <unique311> i feel like a 770 user now
Jan 22 20:30:17 <fysa> same ;)
Jan 22 20:30:24 <fysa> motherfuck'n n800
Jan 22 20:30:33 <LinuxCode> hardly any difference
Jan 22 20:30:35 <LinuxCode> tbh
Jan 22 20:30:35 <unique311> good one
Jan 22 20:30:36 <unique311> lol
Jan 22 20:30:43 * Tak 770 user
Jan 22 20:31:11 <fysa> you in the market for an N800 when I get an N810, Tak? ;)
Jan 22 20:31:30 <unique311> Tak, some games that didn't work before work now.
Jan 22 20:31:32 <unique311> a plus
Jan 22 20:32:44 * lcuk_2 is glad he has an 810.  never have considered something without a keyboard to be a proper computer
Jan 22 20:33:02 <fysa> but how good is it for ssh given the lack of proper keys?
Jan 22 20:33:03 <Tak> fysa: nah, I gave my n800 to my fiancee
Jan 22 20:33:18 <pupnik> you can adapt the keyboard to include tab and | etc
Jan 22 20:33:59 <fysa> do they include a bottle of Testors model paint? :)
Jan 22 20:34:02 <lcuk_2> fysa, since i only ssh into the device its not that much of a biggy.  i do miss the tab key though, but thats down to dev language choice
Jan 22 20:34:09 <Tak> anybody using pyboy/gnuboy ?
Jan 22 20:34:34 <fysa> how is your wpm compared to the N800 vkb?
Jan 22 20:34:38 <fysa> (thumb)
Jan 22 20:34:46 <pupnik> most of the time i use a tablet while sitting, so the BT keyboard is preferable to builtin thumbboard then
Jan 22 20:35:07 <pupnik> but it's fun to shell/vi while walking about too.  just somewhat dangerous
Jan 22 20:35:11 <|tbb|> anyone knows something about the njoy rgb format nokia uses for led flashing on n810?
Jan 22 20:35:14 <lcuk_2> pup, have you tried typing whilst lay on your back with the builtin kb?
Jan 22 20:35:36 <pupnik> no but that would be another good use case
Jan 22 20:35:43 <unique311> Tak, gameboy is really not interesting.
Jan 22 20:35:48 <lcuk_2> its not - i almost knocked myself out the other night
Jan 22 20:35:53 * Tak shrugs
Jan 22 20:35:57 <Tama^2> Hello
Jan 22 20:36:01 <unique311> unless you a pokemon fan
Jan 22 20:36:10 <Tak> I'm just adding a page to xmaeme for chaoticbob's gnuboy port
Jan 22 20:36:11 <lcuk_2> hi tama
Jan 22 20:36:42 <unique311> desmume is another story.
Jan 22 20:36:53 <Tama^2> hi lcuk_2
Jan 22 20:36:56 <unique311> but it is slow as hell, and the screen is way too small
Jan 22 20:37:34 <pH5> |tbb|: I think it is explained in a comment in /etc/mce/mce.ini
Jan 22 20:37:48 <Veggen> fysa: You can get used to a keyboard. Even the n810 keyboard.
Jan 22 20:38:21 <Veggen> I'm considering trying to use my n810 as my exclusive home machine for a week, to force myself to adjust and learn to use the keyboard :)
Jan 22 20:38:33 <fysa> yeah, I can imagine so.  I would love to wait for a device with better CPU (just got the N800 a few months before the N810 was released), but I'm finding it hard.
Jan 22 20:38:41 <GeneralAntilles> Heck, I'm used to the N800's keyboard.
Jan 22 20:38:53 <fysa> I've already replaced a laptop with N800 + bluetooth keyboard.
Jan 22 20:39:04 <pupnik> ./configure : 'maybe you need to recompile python with --shared-libs'
Jan 22 20:39:06 <pupnik> :(
Jan 22 20:39:12 <fysa> honestly, KDE and X11 forwarding is probably the killer app for me.
Jan 22 20:39:23 <fysa> and KDE/X11 make much more sense with the slide-out keyboard.
Jan 22 20:39:41 <GeneralAntilles> fysa, wait for the N900. :P
Jan 22 20:39:41 <Veggen> I used my n800 exclusively for a week travel including a conference. It's quite usable if you just try it for a while.
Jan 22 20:39:50 <fysa> do you know something I don't? :)
Jan 22 20:40:03 <fysa> yes, it's excellent for taking notes.
Jan 22 20:40:14 <fysa> using the Apple bluetooth keyboard..
Jan 22 20:40:16 <Veggen> GA: I can never manage to wait. That's why I have all three of them (770, n800 and n810) ;)
Jan 22 20:40:25 <Veggen> And will end up with the n900 when it comes, surely..
Jan 22 20:40:28 <Tama^2> I prefer n800 with BT keyboard
Jan 22 20:40:40 <fysa> there was no outlet near me at the desk, so at one point I moved the N800 into the corner of the room at an outlet, set the font size to 28pt and kept taking notes as normal..
Jan 22 20:40:53 <Tama^2> n900 is GeneralAntilles' pet-topic
Jan 22 20:40:58 <Tama^2> :P
Jan 22 20:41:12 <fysa> that was at hour five or six..
Jan 22 20:41:12 <lcuk_2> now ppl are starting to get 810s, how do you hold it without feeling like its gonna slide out of your hand
Jan 22 20:47:27 <GeneralAntilles> N810 is a waste of money if you have an N800.
Jan 22 20:47:33 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, one word
Jan 22 20:47:42 <LinuxCode> desk stand
Jan 22 20:47:52 <GeneralAntilles> That's two.
Jan 22 20:47:54 <LinuxCode> ok that was two words
Jan 22 20:47:57 <LinuxCode> lol
Jan 22 20:48:02 <lcuk_2> but you cant type with a stand - when your holding it i mean :P
Jan 22 20:48:02 * LinuxCode hits GeneralAntilles 
Jan 22 20:48:10 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, yes you can
Jan 22 20:48:21 <LinuxCode> GeneralAntilles, hey mate ;-D
Jan 22 20:48:26 <LinuxCode> how ya doing GeneralAntilles ?
Jan 22 20:48:28 <||cw> you cna't use a desk stand when you are standing in line for a bus
Jan 22 20:48:30 <lcuk_2> it was uncomfortable with stand out - fingers just the wrong size
Jan 22 20:48:35 <GeneralAntilles> I hurt, LinuxCode.
Jan 22 20:48:43 <Veggen> GA: Well. Sort of, but I had the money to waste :P
Jan 22 20:48:44 <LinuxCode> why ? ;-|
Jan 22 20:48:49 <lcuk_2> i found a nice big rubber pad and double sided stickied it to the back
Jan 22 20:48:56 <GeneralAntilles> You hit me. :(
Jan 22 20:49:00 <LinuxCode> ohh
Jan 22 20:49:02 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jan 22 20:49:07 <Veggen> GA: But I seriously think I like the keyboard. And it's way better if you don't have a table when you type.
Jan 22 20:49:10 * LinuxCode rubs GeneralAntilles 's arm better
Jan 22 20:49:17 <LinuxCode> ok now ?
Jan 22 20:49:30 <GeneralAntilles> Now I'm just creeped out. :P
Jan 22 20:49:38 <Veggen> GA: trying to use the n800 and a bt keyboard in your lap is not easy :)
Jan 22 20:49:39 <lcuk_2> why would you rub his cpu better?
Jan 22 20:49:49 <GeneralAntilles> Veggen, I just use the fullscreen keyboard. ;)
Jan 22 20:50:02 <Veggen> mm, yah. but if you
Jan 22 20:50:04 <pupnik> ahh khertan found the fix
Jan 22 20:50:29 <Veggen> want to see the screen as you type. I never got used to the fullscreen keyboard :)
Jan 22 20:50:38 <lcuk_2> khertan just codes on the road anyway, he hard wired his 800 to his brain
Jan 22 20:51:46 <lcuk_2> i should try coding whilst i commute to work, but i'd keep dropping the device when i change gear
Jan 22 20:53:00 <Veggen> lcuk: I once rode with a guy who was *knitting* while driving.
Jan 22 20:53:12 <Veggen> lcuk: (now, don't ask,but there was a reason ;)
Jan 22 20:53:32 <melmoth> is it me or is there no tab key on the n810 keyboard ?
Jan 22 20:53:38 <lcuk_2> was his technique good?
Jan 22 20:53:40 <melmoth> a shell without auto completion is...torture.
Jan 22 20:53:53 <lcuk_2> melmoth, its just you, everyone else has a tab key right next to the Q
Jan 22 20:53:55 <lcuk_2> (only joking)
Jan 22 20:53:56 <elb> does it have an ESC key?
Jan 22 20:53:57 <jott> lcuk_2: write an app to control the gear with the it .. there is already some framework for that ;)
Jan 22 20:54:06 <lcuk_2> you are right there isnt one
Jan 22 20:54:17 <elb> ESC ESC probably also completes
Jan 22 20:54:18 <lcuk_2> yes elb, its on the side of the screen i think
Jan 22 20:54:29 <lcuk_2> the lower one if i remember rightly
Jan 22 20:54:30 <elb> that's what ksh used, way back in the day
Jan 22 20:54:37 <Veggen> lcuk: That's the point. It was a competition. ANd one of the tasks during the competition was to knit as much as you could for the duration. And we were only guys, and he was the best knitter *even* while driving, and he was the only one who could drive.
Jan 22 20:55:11 <lcuk_2> kinda like an alternative take on extreme ironing
Jan 22 20:55:26 <thoughtfix> I hate it when that happens
Jan 22 20:55:27 <thoughtfix> okay
Jan 22 20:55:28 <czr> ironing <3
Jan 22 20:55:33 <czr> and no, I won't iron your shirts.
Jan 22 20:55:37 <thoughtfix> the most popular lecture topic is "Noise to Signal"
Jan 22 20:56:09 <jott> melmoth: you can always define new keys combinations or rebind existing ones...
Jan 22 20:56:22 <lcuk_2> czr, ive got some pants which need flattening
Jan 22 20:56:30 <Veggen> czr: I buy them "iron-free". And when people complain that they're not ironed, I just say "there's something wrong with the shirt, it was bought ironing-free".
Jan 22 20:56:40 <czr> jott, or try using HP-UX (no line editing even) and be happy without working completion
Jan 22 20:56:45 <Veggen> czr: It goes right in with my nerdy image ;P
Jan 22 20:56:53 <czr> Veggen, I feel you
Jan 22 20:57:00 <lcuk_2> my iron has been broken for a while, i suppose i should buy her some flowers or let her make me a new 810 case
Jan 22 20:57:04 <czr> although ironing, like washing dishes, is a therapeautic thing for me really.
Jan 22 20:57:08 <GeneralAntilles> Ironing sucks. Buy yourself a steamer and be happy.
Jan 22 20:57:17 <czr> assuming I don't have to iron a shirt in the morning before a bloody meeting
Jan 22 20:57:35 <czr> lcuk_2, how's the furry case coming along?
Jan 22 20:57:36 <lcuk_2> the most ive ever relaxed whilst working was when i did potato peeling and chipping :)
Jan 22 20:57:46 <lcuk_2> thankfully its not lol
Jan 22 20:57:58 <czr> lcuk_2, hmm. maybe you should have a backup plan then
Jan 22 20:58:01 <lcuk_2> we have other matters at home before we deal with that
Jan 22 20:58:02 <jott> czr: you can also remove the d-pad binding if you like it more this way ;)
Jan 22 20:58:05 * czr starts looking for pink fur animals
Jan 22 20:58:10 <Veggen> I once had an argument with one of the fancy-dressed project-leader-girls at work. About being "clothing-counscious"...
Jan 22 20:58:37 <czr> jott, hmm. you could still use ctrl+a and such, so you'd have to remove ctrl as well
Jan 22 20:58:38 <Tama^2> lol
Jan 22 20:58:39 * lcuk_2 is going to fancydress party in a couple of weeks as neo
Jan 22 20:58:47 * lcuk_2 needs guns.  lots of guns
Jan 22 20:58:47 <Veggen> I said that I was just as good at that as her. "I take *well* care of which t-shirt I use in the meetings. *always*"
Jan 22 20:59:02 <czr> lcuk_2, and a angry and malnourished looking posse
Jan 22 20:59:14 <thoughtfix> Hahaha
Jan 22 20:59:14 <jott> czr: hehe.. yeah or patch readline and remove those bloat features ;)
Jan 22 20:59:15 <Tama^2> Veggen: s your work env very formal?
Jan 22 20:59:17 <thoughtfix> Leather coat?
Jan 22 20:59:21 <Veggen> Tama: Nah.
Jan 22 20:59:29 <czr> lcuk_2, do they have a lot of marble in the place you're going? otherwise it's going to be boring
Jan 22 20:59:36 * lcuk_2 wears t shirt and jeans to work
Jan 22 20:59:39 <lcuk_2> its on an army base
Jan 22 20:59:44 <Veggen> Not really. But it happens that I end up in meetings which are more formal than othetrs.
Jan 22 20:59:46 <czr> that works :-)
Jan 22 20:59:52 <lcuk_2> actually, best not take a gun
Jan 22 21:00:05 <lcuk_2> crap
Jan 22 21:00:08 <czr> lcuk_2, yeah, take a helicopter.
Jan 22 21:00:14 <lcuk_2> plan b: austin powers
Jan 22 21:00:34 <czr> a great bush of breast hair?
Jan 22 21:00:34 <Veggen> Tama: I actually work with system integration for banking environments, really. Much projects etc.
Jan 22 21:01:01 <Veggen> Tama: Sometimes, I end up in meeting with managers pretty high in the hierarchy of large banks.
Jan 22 21:01:25 <lcuk_2> veggen, i hope you have a formal black tshirt
Jan 22 21:01:37 <Veggen> Tama: I find the strategy of always wearing a nerdy t-shirt is highly successfull.
Jan 22 21:01:39 <czr> Veggen, you wear your "I read your email." T-shirt to those?
Jan 22 21:02:01 <czr> I used to have a bumper sticker of that on my laptop. it got pretty good reception at formal project meetings
Jan 22 21:02:13 <Veggen> czr: I have a "happy hacking" GNU t-shirt. That's one of my favourites.
Jan 22 21:02:19 <czr> heh
Jan 22 21:03:01 <Veggen> czr: strategy works. Everyone thinks I know a lot, because there can't be another reason why they drag me to the meeting.
Jan 22 21:03:09 <Tama^2> Veggen: why highly succesful? (me thinks of a dilbert comic that fits...)
Jan 22 21:03:27 <czr> Veggen, maybe they drag you just into the meetings in order to be amused and entertained?
Jan 22 21:03:52 <czr> I used to feel like that when I was working in the financial sector
Jan 22 21:03:59 <czr> our project manager was a complete boot.
Jan 22 21:04:42 <Veggen> czr: I once had a project manager without technical understanding *whatsoever*. And he was in a different city than those of us doing the technical stuff.
Jan 22 21:05:00 <czr> Veggen, my boot lived in the same city
Jan 22 21:05:07 <czr> otherwise exactly same qualifications.
Jan 22 21:05:20 <lcuk_2> isnt that the definition of project manager
Jan 22 21:05:26 <Veggen> czr: He'd call me, and ask me to explain what I was doing. And then he'd ask me to explain what I'd just told him. And even that was beyond him.
Jan 22 21:05:33 <lcuk_2> they arent paid to know the inner workings.
Jan 22 21:05:41 <czr> I've worked with semi-good ones as well.. although hmm..
Jan 22 21:05:50 <Veggen> czr: Until I finally told him "I don't have time for this anymore. I have to get some work done."
Jan 22 21:06:06 <czr> lcuk_2, it would be nice if they would have at least some idea about the project and how things can be done (and how they cannot be done)
Jan 22 21:06:10 <lcuk_2> if a manager gets caught up in the inner workings then they arent managing you properly
Jan 22 21:06:16 <Veggen> It'd usually take around 30 seconds, and he'd call up the guy next to me, asking *the exact same questions*.
Jan 22 21:06:29 <czr> Veggen, he wanted to feel that he participated!
Jan 22 21:06:31 <Veggen> lcuk: agreed :)
Jan 22 21:06:48 <czr> lcuk_2, I don't think we're talking about inner workings here exactly.
Jan 22 21:07:36 <Tak> a project manager should be able to understand the properties of a technical project in order to properly manage it
Jan 22 21:07:44 <Veggen> czr: I also once had a boss who got nervous when things were critical, and always asking a and bugging us. He was away for a customer meeting in another city, and I'd promised I'd be done with quite a bit of work after that day...
Jan 22 21:08:01 <Tak> somebody who thinks software is magic that can do anything without limits is not going to be a good project manager
Jan 22 21:08:02 <lcuk_2> i do agree czr - there is a difference between knowing something can be done (from experience, hands on or prior projects) and knowing nothing
Jan 22 21:08:29 <Veggen> czr: But then he called me every half hour, asking for status: It was getting on my nerves by an hour after lunch, so when he asked "Now, you'll be ready, right?"
Jan 22 21:08:30 * czr nods
Jan 22 21:08:58 <Veggen> czr: so I answered him "No. I won't. Not unless you hang up *now*, and don't call me again. *ever*"
Jan 22 21:09:05 <czr> heh
Jan 22 21:09:31 <Veggen> czr: He didn't call again. He was hopping mad when he returned. But I was done, so he couldn't stay mad ;)
Jan 22 21:09:33 <czr> you've got to educate people sometimes..
Jan 22 21:09:50 <LinuxCode> czr, iron my shit
Jan 22 21:09:53 <LinuxCode> thanks
Jan 22 21:10:02 <lcuk_2> typo or a big mess?
Jan 22 21:10:24 <czr> most of people I've worked for just politely get out of my way. if they're good, they'll know which questions they should ask me for feedback and that if I can't provide a "no/yes" answer, it's a good thing..
Jan 22 21:10:39 <czr> LinuxCode, no :-)
Jan 22 21:10:50 * LinuxCode cries
Jan 22 21:10:55 <LinuxCode> but....but...but...
Jan 22 21:11:02 <czr> I'm not ironing your shit!
Jan 22 21:11:07 <czr> iron your shit yourself damn it!
Jan 22 21:11:13 <LinuxCode> ehh shirt
Jan 22 21:11:18 <LinuxCode> rofl
Jan 22 21:11:21 * lcuk_2 wonders how you would clean the iron afterwards
Jan 22 21:11:22 <czr> no. the moment is gone now!
Jan 22 21:11:26 <Veggen> czr: yah, where I'm now, people respect what I say. Mostly because I never speak without knowing what to say ;)
Jan 22 21:11:26 <LinuxCode> but shit implies more than one item
Jan 22 21:11:28 <czr> I'm not ironing anything for you, pervert!
Jan 22 21:11:32 <robtaylor> sudo iron my shirt
Jan 22 21:11:38 <LinuxCode> czr, haha
Jan 22 21:11:39 <Tak> robtaylor++
Jan 22 21:11:40 <LinuxCode> ;-D
Jan 22 21:11:42 <lcuk_2> lol
Jan 22 21:11:53 <czr> sudo: filename or command not found. you fail.
Jan 22 21:12:01 <LinuxCode> I bet you do extremem ironing czr
Jan 22 21:12:08 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jan 22 21:12:19 <czr> hmm. depends on what it means I guess
Jan 22 21:12:34 <robtaylor> czr: waoh, your wetware install must be pretty borken ;)
Jan 22 21:12:53 <lcuk_2> czr, ironing whilst rock climbing or skydiving
Jan 22 21:12:59 <czr> ahh. no :-)
Jan 22 21:13:35 <czr> robtaylor, I'm using the same design process as the maemo team, can you blame me?
Jan 22 21:13:35 <robtaylor> What the world needs is *real* extreme programming
Jan 22 21:13:42 <robtaylor> czr: heh
Jan 22 21:13:46 <mgedmin> there's extreme ironing
Jan 22 21:14:07 <mgedmin> which is what lcuk already mentioned...
Jan 22 21:14:08 <lcuk_2> robtaylor, entirely plausible with the 810
Jan 22 21:14:15 <robtaylor> lcuk_2: heh, damn right :)
Jan 22 21:14:26 <mgedmin> and linuxcode
Jan 22 21:14:34 <czr> what about base jumping and ironing?
Jan 22 21:14:42 <czr> does that count?
Jan 22 21:14:48 <mgedmin> the strategy of reading irc logs very fast by skipping 75% is not working that well...
Jan 22 21:14:52 <Tama^2> mgedmin: there's extreme ironing
Jan 22 21:15:00 <lcuk_2> it depends if you are ironing your parachute
Jan 22 21:15:00 <robtaylor> The Nokia Extreme Programming Championship - "Nokia, Breaking People"
Jan 22 21:15:09 <Tama^2> any ironing not done by mum is by definition extreme
Jan 22 21:15:10 <lcuk_2> lol
Jan 22 21:15:20 <czr> mgedmin, you should make a tool that combines new lines by skipping 3/4 of words but by keeping them otherwise intact
Jan 22 21:15:25 <lcuk_2> i can iron anything as long as it is towel shaped
Jan 22 21:15:27 <mgedmin> step 1: run a busy loop on your N800 to get it really hot
Jan 22 21:15:29 <czr> hah Tama^2
Jan 22 21:15:31 <mgedmin> step 2: apply it to a shirt
Jan 22 21:15:48 <mgedmin> czr: why words? characters
Jan 22 21:15:50 <czr> one of my exes got really mad at me once when I noted her that she completely didn't iron my shirt correctly.
Jan 22 21:15:56 <czr> well. she didn't iron my stuff afterwards..
Jan 22 21:16:04 <robtaylor> mgedmin: step 3: buy a new N800?
Jan 22 21:16:06 <Veggen> heh. I'm replacing a few servers that 1.5 million customer goes through, tonight. Sort of extreme sysadmining. I didn't know when I got to work today that I had to do it tonight, but looking at the numbers, I said "I can't guarantee *anything* about tomorrow. I advice doing it today."
Jan 22 21:16:13 <czr> mgedmin, hmm. only take the first and last letter of each word?
Jan 22 21:16:26 <mgedmin> robtaylor: (a N810 actually... "but I have to upgrade, the old one doesn't work any more"
Jan 22 21:16:34 <robtaylor> mgedmin: heh :)
Jan 22 21:16:39 <czr> Veggen, university disintegrating upon you?
Jan 22 21:16:43 <czr> universe even..
Jan 22 21:17:16 <LinuxCode> czr, Uni does disintegrate you
Jan 22 21:17:19 * czr plans some rotten apples in veggen's servers.
Jan 22 21:17:27 <czr> LinuxCode, probably. not my piece of cake
Jan 22 21:17:27 <LinuxCode> Uni = eats your brain
Jan 22 21:17:36 <Tak> Tak thinks czr meant: LinuxCode, probably. of cake
Jan 22 21:17:36 <Tak> czr: s/(\w)* \w* \w* \w*/\1/g
Jan 22 21:17:42 <Veggen> czr: Nah. Just that after new-year, suddenly we'd had a surge in cpu-usage. Maybe it's related to everyone buying and selling stocks, due to the unstable stock markets...
Jan 22 21:17:51 <LinuxCode> czr, rotten apple servers ?
Jan 22 21:17:52 <LinuxCode> lol
Jan 22 21:17:58 <lcuk_2> THE CAKE IS A LIE
Jan 22 21:18:02 <czr> tak, you're evil..
Jan 22 21:18:18 <czr> Veggen, uhhuh :-)
Jan 22 21:18:25 <czr> Veggen, so you'll need rotten apple servers
Jan 22 21:18:31 <lcuk_2> veggen, do it slowly and double check every line
Jan 22 21:18:32 <czr> spread the joy around.
Jan 22 21:18:32 <Tak> Tak thinks czr meant: spreadtejoy around.
Jan 22 21:18:32 <Tak> czr: s/ (\w)\w*(\w) /\1\2/g
Jan 22 21:18:39 <lcuk_2> ;)
Jan 22 21:19:54 * czr looks for something useful to do
Jan 22 21:20:04 <lcuk_2> bbl
Jan 22 21:20:21 * czr plants some pink fur on lcuk_2's back
Jan 22 21:20:41 <czr> damn I hate my work pipe.
Jan 22 21:20:42 * Tak not doing anything useful either, obviously
Jan 22 21:21:09 <czr> I'm loading mirrors of ubuntus and such. both here and there. and there it was completed ages ago (some 40G worth). and here.. it will never be completed..
Jan 22 21:21:58 <czr> "16954402512 bytes will be downloaded into archive." "Downloading 15988 archive files using 20 threads..."
Jan 22 21:22:06 <czr> 20 threads? why not one thread per file..
Jan 22 21:22:21 <Tak> one thread per byte; then it will be done instantly
Jan 22 21:22:27 <czr> true
Jan 22 21:22:32 <czr> you patented that already?
Jan 22 21:22:39 <czr> or I'm free to use that idea?
Jan 22 21:22:43 * Tak scrambles to USPTO
Jan 22 21:22:56 <czr> I guess one could use chunked http/1.1 for "byte serving".
Jan 22 21:23:06 * czr scrambles the USPTO
Jan 22 21:23:14 <czr> haha. now you will never find it!
Jan 22 21:23:56 * lcuk_2 already wrote one fake patent today
Jan 22 21:24:43 <czr> patents are just sad.
Jan 22 21:24:50 <Tak> indeed
Jan 22 21:24:53 * lcuk_2 flaps czr with the pink furr found on his back
Jan 22 21:25:01 * czr likes it
Jan 22 21:25:07 <czr> flap harder!
Jan 22 21:25:18 <Veggen> there are situations where patents are good, but software is not one of them.
Jan 22 21:25:31 <czr> yeah. basmati rice is one of those situations.
Jan 22 21:25:36 <Veggen> Or alternatively, a software patent could last for 5 years. That'd be a long enough duration.
Jan 22 21:25:37 <elb> or at least, the current patent terms are ridiculous
Jan 22 21:25:38 <Tak> I disagree that there are any situations anymore where patents are good
Jan 22 21:25:46 * czr agrees with tak
Jan 22 21:25:52 <Tama^2> I tend to agree with tak
Jan 22 21:25:52 <elb> then you don't understand patents
Jan 22 21:26:01 <Tak> or perhaps you don't understand reality
Jan 22 21:26:06 <elb> in manufacturing processes, they are still very powerful
Jan 22 21:26:07 <Tama^2> lol
Jan 22 21:26:08 <elb> oh, I do
Jan 22 21:26:09 <czr> it's not possible to develop a system which wouldn't be molested by patent lawyers
Jan 22 21:26:14 <Tak> powerful != good
Jan 22 21:26:14 <elb> and I'm informed on more than just software
Jan 22 21:26:18 <czr> so it's just better to get rid of the whole crap completely.
Jan 22 21:26:20 <elb> powerful for the *public*
Jan 22 21:26:23 <elb> not for the patent owners
Jan 22 21:26:24 <Veggen> Tak: Maybe it could be solved other ways. Or alternatively, patent abuse should actually be made illegal.
Jan 22 21:26:30 <elb> trade secrets are worse than patents
Jan 22 21:26:32 <elb> in many ways
Jan 22 21:26:34 <lcuk_2> its not possible to develop ANYTHING which can't be molested my lawyers
Jan 22 21:26:47 <czr> Veggen, more lawyers? whee.
Jan 22 21:26:55 <czr> lcuk_2, pink fur.
Jan 22 21:26:58 <elb> patent terms are out of hand; 17 years made a lot of sense during the industrial revolution, but today it's multiple product cycles in many industries
Jan 22 21:27:00 <czr> no lawyers added.
Jan 22 21:27:00 <Tak> Veggen: it's possible that the problem could be solved other ways than complete patent abolition
Jan 22 21:27:01 <Veggen> czr: Ok, bad idea.
Jan 22 21:27:06 <lcuk_2> "Yahoo Patents 'Smart' Drag and Drop"    <<<<< WTF??????
Jan 22 21:27:21 <elb> but open and complete documentation of revolutionary processes is a *great* think
Jan 22 21:27:22 <elb> thing
Jan 22 21:27:33 <czr> Tak, make it illegal to study to become a patent/"IP" lawyer?
Jan 22 21:27:34 <Tama^2> a patent that involves anything but manufacturing process is silly
Jan 22 21:27:37 <Veggen> Tak: but for example in the medical business, the costs of testing a new drug is actually sky-high.
Jan 22 21:27:50 <Tak> czr: nah, just make it legal to assassinate "IP" lawyers ;-)
Jan 22 21:27:58 <elb> Tama^2: patents covering mechanical apparatus are also reasonable, in many circumstances
Jan 22 21:27:59 <czr> lcuk_2, it's for dogs! they drag their owners and drop "packages" here and there. and they're pretty smart too.
Jan 22 21:28:16 <czr> Tak, heh. reminds me of an old joke. "what do you call three lawyers at the bottom of the sea?"
Jan 22 21:28:24 <lcuk_2> a good start :D
Jan 22 21:28:25 <Tak> I don't buy into the pharmacos' "Testing drugs is SO expensive!" rigamarole
Jan 22 21:28:28 * czr nods
Jan 22 21:28:43 <elb> Tak: the thing is, though, it really is, and that's documented fact
Jan 22 21:28:45 <czr> Tak, there's a limit on how many uppers and downers the managers can take, be reasonable..
Jan 22 21:28:46 <lcuk_2> tak ,it does cost lots
Jan 22 21:28:47 <Veggen> Tak: At the same time as it's usually ridiculously easy to copy the work of others, because one really need to know what's in a drug.
Jan 22 21:28:52 <LinuxCode> "what do you call three lawyers at the bottom of the sea?"
Jan 22 21:28:54 <elb> of course, a lot of that cost is ridiculous government intervention
Jan 22 21:29:00 <LinuxCode> mafia funeral ?
Jan 22 21:29:02 <LinuxCode> lol
Jan 22 21:29:07 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jan 22 21:29:08 <Tama^2> elb: I have to agree with you, except the length of time covered by patents is too long
Jan 22 21:29:15 <lcuk_2> because believe it or not, the government doesnt want people killing other people
Jan 22 21:29:21 <elb> also, keep in mind that for every compound which succeeds, *thousands* fail
Jan 22 21:29:24 <lcuk_2> so they regulate it and make sure they cant
Jan 22 21:29:25 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, thats a lie
Jan 22 21:29:27 <elb> the low-hanging fruit has been knocked down, as it were
Jan 22 21:29:28 <czr> LinuxCode, neh. a good start still. who cares who did them into the sea :-)
Jan 22 21:29:32 <lcuk_2> ok, maybe not the UK gov
Jan 22 21:29:33 <elb> Tama^2: yeah, I've said that at least twice now ;-)
Jan 22 21:29:40 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, lol
Jan 22 21:29:41 <LinuxCode> ;-]
Jan 22 21:29:47 <elb> lcuk_2: actually, that's not exactly how it plays out
Jan 22 21:30:03 * LinuxCode sends lcuk_2 to army boot camp
Jan 22 21:30:06 <elb> lcuk_2: various lobbies have convinced most first-world governments to do *entirely* unreasonable things with pharmaceuticals
Jan 22 21:30:09 <Tama^2> elb: I am not *always* reading, I need to get some work done :P
Jan 22 21:30:12 <LinuxCode> ready for afghanistan
Jan 22 21:30:14 <LinuxCode> lol
Jan 22 21:30:25 <Veggen> but software? I don't think it should be patentable, or alternatively patent protection should be *way* shorter.
Jan 22 21:30:27 <Tak> elb: IMO, first-to-market can completely cover development cost nowadays
Jan 22 21:30:34 <LinuxCode> elb, pharma cos are always unreasonable
Jan 22 21:30:38 <Veggen> and submarine patents should be made illegal.
Jan 22 21:30:44 <LinuxCode> they dont want cures for cancer and aids
Jan 22 21:30:52 <LinuxCode> cures dont make money
Jan 22 21:30:52 <elb> Tak: except that you *have* to publish the compounds you're marketing -- which means second-to-market takes a matter of weeks
Jan 22 21:30:58 <LinuxCode> treatments do
Jan 22 21:31:03 <lcuk_2> why not, i might make a really novel way of building submarines
Jan 22 21:31:07 <Tak> a matter of weeks is plenty
Jan 22 21:31:14 <elb> LinuxCode: of course they are, they're government-protected monopolies
Jan 22 21:31:31 <LinuxCode> elb, dont say that
Jan 22 21:31:31 <elb> Tak: I think you underestimate the cost of drug development
Jan 22 21:31:36 <Veggen> i.e once you *should* have known that your patent was becomeing widely used (as in the gif patent, for example), you should lose all protection.
Jan 22 21:31:38 <czr> lcuk_2, a smart drag and drop submarine?
Jan 22 21:31:40 <Tak> because if you come out with a revolutionary new drug, you're going to sell as much as you can produce in those two weeks
Jan 22 21:31:42 <LinuxCode> the EU likes to fine people
Jan 22 21:31:46 <lcuk_2> czr, on the internet
Jan 22 21:31:54 <elb> Tak: only if it's for a common disease
Jan 22 21:31:56 <LinuxCode> dont mess with the competition commission
Jan 22 21:31:57 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jan 22 21:31:57 <czr> an internet submarine!
Jan 22 21:32:02 <Veggen> And what about the guys who bought the patents from the Xerox Parc guys, recently?
Jan 22 21:32:06 <elb> Tak: you're advocating a system under which rare conditions receive no research or treatment
Jan 22 21:32:13 <Tak> if it's not for a common disease, nobody's going to spend the money to research it anyway
Jan 22 21:32:23 <elb> right now, that's not the case
Jan 22 21:32:24 <Tak> elb: That's the system we have now.
Jan 22 21:32:27 <lcuk_2> they are if it effects them
Jan 22 21:32:27 <Veggen> ...suing Linux companies for X.org-stuff.
Jan 22 21:32:29 <LinuxCode> Tak, universities do
Jan 22 21:32:36 <elb> many drug companies do, as well
Jan 22 21:32:37 <LinuxCode> and always did
Jan 22 21:32:42 <elb> because they have 17 years to recoup costs
Jan 22 21:32:43 <czr> Veggen, didn't hear about that. where's that?
Jan 22 21:32:45 <Veggen> (suing or threatening, don't remember)
Jan 22 21:32:46 <LinuxCode> thats what unis are/were for
Jan 22 21:33:05 <elb> and universities really can't compete on the drug-testing fields any more, except in some very special circumstances
Jan 22 21:33:05 <Tak> s/nobody/no company/
Jan 22 21:33:08 <lcuk_2> unis are for frat parties and naked twister
Jan 22 21:33:15 <Veggen> czr: it's true. A purely patent company is making threats to that end.
Jan 22 21:33:24 <czr> Veggen, sad days. once again.
Jan 22 21:33:24 <elb> medical schools complain about this endlessly
Jan 22 21:33:29 <Veggen> czr: In no sane world should that be possible.
Jan 22 21:33:31 <elb> they simply can't try enough compounds fast enough
Jan 22 21:33:44 <Veggen> (let me see if I can find it)
Jan 22 21:33:47 <czr> Veggen, I know. I'm moving to Mars soon. I'm sick of this shit..
Jan 22 21:33:50 <czr> Veggen, nm.
Jan 22 21:33:50 <elb> in any event, this sort of discussion never ends anywhere, so I'll do my part by bowing out ;-)
Jan 22 21:34:23 * czr blames veggen for starting it
Jan 22 21:34:27 * lcuk_2 patents the "method of filling out a patent application on the internet"
Jan 22 21:34:45 <czr> hah.
Jan 22 21:34:48 <LinuxCode> lcuk_2, lool
Jan 22 21:34:53 * czr blames himself for not reading the backlog
Jan 22 21:35:03 * LinuxCode patents the word "at"
Jan 22 21:35:06 * Tak blames czr for not reading the backlog
Jan 22 21:35:13 * czr patents the concept of whitespace
Jan 22 21:35:21 <LinuxCode> czr, lool
Jan 22 21:35:28 * elb reboots this machine to try to get its SCSI bus back up
Jan 22 21:35:29 <czr> allyourbasearebelongtome
Jan 22 21:35:30 * lcuk_2 also patents "method for reading the backlog over the internet"
Jan 22 21:35:32 <Veggen> czr: I didn't start it. I think :)
Jan 22 21:35:32 <Tak> czr: I think Guido van Rossum beat you to it
Jan 22 21:35:35 * lcuk_2 is ognna be rich
Jan 22 21:35:39 <czr> Veggen, yeah, it was me :-)
Jan 22 21:35:50 <czr> Tak, neh, python = <3 goodness :-)
Jan 22 21:35:53 * LinuxCode patents patents
Jan 22 21:36:15 <Tak> yes, I agree that the goodness of python is less than 3
Jan 22 21:36:17 * GeneralAntilles patents blame.
Jan 22 21:36:22 <czr> lcuk_2, the internet backlog you mean?
Jan 22 21:36:27 * LinuxCode sues all companies for not paying to be able to have a patent
Jan 22 21:36:33 <lcuk_2> no i dont go on those sorts of sites
Jan 22 21:36:45 <czr> no. not internet backstreets..
Jan 22 21:36:46 * LinuxCode gives money to any good free software project
Jan 22 21:36:55 <czr> emacs?
Jan 22 21:37:02 <LinuxCode> no
Jan 22 21:37:06 <LinuxCode> i said good
Jan 22 21:37:10 <LinuxCode> lol j/k
Jan 22 21:37:12 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jan 22 21:37:13 <czr> and you said any :-)
Jan 22 21:37:17 <LinuxCode> haha
Jan 22 21:37:38 <lcuk_2> didnt vi and emacs build the internet?
Jan 22 21:37:55 <czr> no. internet was a spawn of ed.
Jan 22 21:38:36 <jsmith> czr: No, I"m pretty sure vi is the spawn of ed
Jan 22 21:38:50 <czr> they're both
Jan 22 21:38:56 <czr> internet = vi.
Jan 22 21:39:06 <czr> winterniet
Jan 22 21:39:24 <Veggen> I actually write all my documentation in vim :)
Jan 22 21:39:27 <LinuxCode> what that buttler of diania called again ?
Jan 22 21:39:30 <LinuxCode> diana
Jan 22 21:39:35 <Veggen> I refuse to follow all these wordisms.
Jan 22 21:39:50 <GeneralAntilles> Diania is Diana's homeworld?
Jan 22 21:39:52 <LinuxCode> we need to pack him inot a capsule and send him to the moon on the Uks first moon mission
Jan 22 21:39:55 <czr> LinuxCode, I don't think she needs any more butter
Jan 22 21:40:00 <jsmith> Veggen: So do I... In fact, I've written *books* in vim
Jan 22 21:40:02 <lcuk_2> veggen, what are you still doing online anyway - arent you meant to be shittin yourself about now?
Jan 22 21:40:06 <Veggen> These days, sharepoint is sort of getting popular. I know there exist a sharepoint somewhere that I think we're supposed to work.
Jan 22 21:40:08 <LinuxCode> czr, course not..
Jan 22 21:40:10 <LinuxCode> ;-|
Jan 22 21:40:10 <Veggen> eh, use.
Jan 22 21:40:17 <czr> GeneralAntilles, yeah, just like Nokia is the land of the small Nok-people.
Jan 22 21:40:20 <LinuxCode> that buttler guy is a moron
Jan 22 21:40:25 <pupnik> yaay for removing -Werror
Jan 22 21:40:34 <Veggen> lcuk: Oh, I have 1 h 20 minutes for finishing preparations.
Jan 22 21:40:41 <czr> Veggen, I feel your pain. SPS is the devil's spawn
Jan 22 21:40:41 <GeneralAntilles> Ha . . . BUTTler
Jan 22 21:40:43 <Veggen> I can waste about half of it.
Jan 22 21:40:57 <LinuxCode> GeneralAntilles, whats what he is lol
Jan 22 21:41:15 <LinuxCode> I sneaked the t is on purpose
Jan 22 21:41:18 <lcuk_2> lol vegg - the half life principle works with everything
Jan 22 21:41:19 <LinuxCode> in
Jan 22 21:41:35 * czr notices an unauthorized t-sneakery
Jan 22 21:41:54 * LinuxCode puncihes himself by leaving
Jan 22 21:42:03 <LinuxCode> Im off to bed guys..been up since 3am
Jan 22 21:42:06 <LinuxCode> nn all
Jan 22 21:42:09 <lcuk_2> nite linux
Jan 22 21:42:09 <LinuxCode> ttyl
Jan 22 21:42:12 <LinuxCode> ;-}
Jan 22 21:42:36 <lcuk_2> right, time for some code from me as well for half hour
Jan 22 21:42:50 <czr> sadly, I still have nothing useful to do
Jan 22 21:43:16 <pupnik> ?!
Jan 22 21:43:18 <lcuk_2> i am still pondering the best way to control an active media player in linux (desktop)
Jan 22 21:43:36 <fysa> mind
Jan 22 21:43:40 <lcuk_2> in windows i can code up SendKeys(...) and make things work
Jan 22 21:43:50 <megabyte405> rem00t
Jan 22 21:43:52 <lcuk_2> cant see anything for linux tho
Jan 22 21:43:53 <pupnik> now can anybody involved in open-source ever be lacking in things to do is a mystery to me
Jan 22 21:44:07 <czr> pupnik, _useful_..
Jan 22 21:44:16 <czr> I have things to do. they're just not very useful atm :-)
Jan 22 21:44:17 <megabyte405> I use rewwwoot/remoot to control media players using a web interface
Jan 22 21:44:20 <megabyte405> works really nicely
Jan 22 21:44:23 <czr> like verifying bugs and such
Jan 22 21:44:46 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_2, mpd? or am I missing something?
Jan 22 21:45:23 <megabyte405> lcuk_2: if you're looking to integrate/control an existing desktop media player, try remoot.  If you just want the PC as a media server, then mpd might be a better pick
Jan 22 21:45:31 <lcuk_2> GeneralAntilles, i know nothing about linux as i said - ive written a basic remote control for 810 which sends commands to my windows machine and works nicely, but that uses sendkeys to control the active media player
Jan 22 21:45:48 <lcuk_2> megabyte405, im just searching for that now
Jan 22 21:45:53 <GeneralAntilles> You want the same for a Linux desktop?
Jan 22 21:45:59 <lcuk_2> yer
Jan 22 21:46:02 <megabyte405> should do exactly what you want - it's what I use it for
Jan 22 21:46:06 <GeneralAntilles> I'd just use mpd + mmpc
Jan 22 21:46:07 <Tama^2> ok, n00b question: I would like to use my n800 as a music player (ipod replacement). Which media player do you suggest? (something that indexes and uses mp3 metadata)
Jan 22 21:46:18 <megabyte405> I like ukmp
Jan 22 21:46:20 <GeneralAntilles> I'd try them all yourself, Tama^2.
Jan 22 21:46:27 <GeneralAntilles> Everybody is gonna give you a different answer.
Jan 22 21:46:35 <megabyte405> there are lots of options and lots of people have their own favorite for wathever reason
Jan 22 21:46:37 <lcuk_2> tama, GeneralAntilles is right, go shopping
Jan 22 21:46:39 <GeneralAntilles> There really isn't a single _perfect_ media player.
Jan 22 21:46:51 <lcuk_2> there should be
Jan 22 21:46:55 <GeneralAntilles> They all have their strengths and weaknesses that work or don't work for different people.
Jan 22 21:47:13 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_2, there's never gonna be one answer that works for everybody. :P
Jan 22 21:47:14 <lcuk_2> too many cooking pots mean you are full before you chose your favorite
Jan 22 21:47:23 <GeneralAntilles> Unless you integrate a lot of different paradigms into one application.
Jan 22 21:47:46 <Tama^2> right, I see the point but I mentione ipod replacemtn for a reason
Jan 22 21:47:50 <GeneralAntilles> Personally, the built-in Media player works really well for me.
Jan 22 21:47:52 <lcuk_2> i know GeneralAntilles its like windows has 4 or 5 normal players that people use
Jan 22 21:48:23 <GeneralAntilles> I'm impressed with Canola2 so far, but it still needs some more spit'n'polish.
Jan 22 21:48:27 <HardandFast> i'll be back
Jan 22 21:48:27 <Tama^2> GeneralAntilles: does it index metadata?
Jan 22 21:48:35 <GeneralAntilles> UKMP is pretty cool.
Jan 22 21:48:35 <lcuk_2> i dont like canola, it feels slow
Jan 22 21:48:42 <GeneralAntilles> Support has been dropped, though.
Jan 22 21:48:47 <lcuk_2> specifally the pictures
Jan 22 21:48:49 <GeneralAntilles> Kagu is another good one.
Jan 22 21:49:02 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_2, you didn't use the photo browser under OS2007. :P
Jan 22 21:49:09 <lcuk_2> lol
Jan 22 21:49:18 <GeneralAntilles> Media Center a lot of people seem to like.
Jan 22 21:49:24 * Tak wait for someone to write a sdl-based media player in vala
Jan 22 21:49:27 <GeneralAntilles> Or OS2005 for that matter. <_<
Jan 22 21:49:30 <megabyte405> support has been dropped for UKMP?
Jan 22 21:49:36 <megabyte405> or it just hasnt'seen a up date in a while?
Jan 22 21:49:40 <GeneralAntilles> Dropped
Jan 22 21:49:42 <lcuk_2> gen, im serious about wanting to lower the bit depth and get speed, i could handle less colors = faster updates for entire experience
Jan 22 21:49:47 <megabyte405> man, that sucks...
Jan 22 21:50:40 <GeneralAntilles> Konttori bowed out in favor of Canola
Jan 22 21:50:43 <megabyte405> seems weird to me - there was just starting to be an apparent community of devs (like, active svn)
Jan 22 21:50:49 <GeneralAntilles> Plus, he's working at Nokia now.
Jan 22 21:50:49 * lcuk_2 wanders off on a tangent ->>>>>>>>> sorry, all this talk of program choices made me think of speed
Jan 22 21:51:15 <lcuk_2> back later
Jan 22 21:51:46 <GeneralAntilles> He's off to take some amphetamines, isn't he?
Jan 22 21:51:49 <megabyte405> meh, it's open source, someone can pick it up if they want to
Jan 22 21:51:57 <chrisak> default media player is great, prolly
Jan 22 21:52:15 <lcuk_2> no you silly sod, im off to get scratchbox or native compiling working so i can start delving deeper
Jan 22 21:52:30 * lcuk_2 kicks his vmware image and tuts about development environments
Jan 22 21:52:39 <GeneralAntilles> Sure . . .
Jan 22 21:52:47 <Tak> I was thinking he was off to chat up Sandra Bullock on a bus
Jan 22 21:52:52 <lcuk_2> lol
Jan 22 21:52:57 <czr> lcuk_2, you store your amphetamines in scratchbox?
Jan 22 21:53:12 <czr> apt-get install "you know what I need"
Jan 22 21:53:24 <Tak> apt-get install '.*'
Jan 22 21:57:53 <lcuk_2> the maemo vmware image:  is it meant to just work out of the box and should i just be able to hit build and get compiled files i can copy out and use directly on my 810?
Jan 22 21:58:59 <chrisak> Been researching options for dl'ing usenet binaries.  Is claws a good solution?  Can it handle multipart binary posts?
Jan 22 21:59:02 <Veggen> lcuk: As far as I know, yes.
Jan 22 21:59:34 <Veggen> (if it supports the newest sdk, of course)
Jan 22 21:59:55 <czr> lcuk_2, 'hit build'? :-)
Jan 22 22:00:00 <czr> lcuk_2, otherwise yes :-)
Jan 22 22:00:13 <czr> lcuk_2, you'll probably want to use scp to copy the files over
Jan 22 22:00:24 <p|> hum
Jan 22 22:00:26 <lcuk_2> veggen, yes its got chinook dsks but i think my inexperience with linux in general is getting in the way.  im getting lost with systems within systems and where binaries end up and all kinds of crap
Jan 22 22:00:34 <p|> no irb on ruby4maemo ?
Jan 22 22:00:38 <lcuk_2> sdks ^
Jan 22 22:01:05 <fysa> or nfs?
Jan 22 22:01:27 * lcuk_2 thinks he should find a local linux guru and peck his head
Jan 22 22:01:35 * lcuk_2 will offer him beer
Jan 22 22:01:36 <fysa> with a claw hammer?
Jan 22 22:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> Eat his brains. Gain his knowledge!
Jan 22 22:01:59 <Veggen> lcuk: beer often helps.
Jan 22 22:02:02 <lcuk_2> nahhh fysa - i just need to sit down with someone and get the env setup
Jan 22 22:03:08 <lcuk_2> once im there and i can get at stuff im fine but its just way OTT - i think i could do direct linux building now but scratchbox within linux within vmware is just yarghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Jan 22 22:03:16 <Tak> p|: nope
Jan 22 22:03:37 <lcuk_2> anyway ill ponder that later
Jan 22 22:03:43 <lcuk_2> cyas later guys
Jan 22 22:14:12 <czr> lcuk_2, if you're using debian/ubuntu, it's pretty easy to do "direct" building (without the vmware in between)
Jan 22 22:16:09 <maddler> oompa loompa...
Jan 22 22:29:09 <pupnik> oop vmware broke my shift key ;/  bbl
Jan 22 22:55:21 <jackster> anyone know a good podcatcher other than canoly?
Jan 22 22:55:39 <ph|ber> canola2 ROCKS!
Jan 22 22:56:16 <jackster> indeed, but other than canola
Jan 22 22:57:13 <lcuk_2> czr, main system is running windows..daytime work depends upon it too much to not have it fully usable
Jan 22 22:57:28 <czr> lcuk_2, ah, I see. so what's the problem then?
Jan 22 22:58:13 <czr> "Sorry, we are unable to process your request. Our system is experiencing some difficulties. Please try again later. ". awww.
Jan 22 22:58:15 <czr> how sad.
Jan 22 22:58:28 <czr> one would think that HP would have some hw to spare. guess not.
Jan 22 22:59:10 <lcuk_2> its just inexperience i think
Jan 22 22:59:30 <czr> mine or theirs? :-)
Jan 22 22:59:41 <czr> they're used to me. I bitch about bugs in their hardware and other crap
Jan 22 22:59:43 <lcuk_2> i prefer one step at a time, but getting used to linux+exclipse+scratchbox+maemo all at once has kindof fried my brain
Jan 22 22:59:53 <czr> ah, you meant linuxwindowsthing
Jan 22 23:00:04 <lcuk_2> yer lol
Jan 22 23:00:07 <czr> lcuk_2, have you taken a look at the training material?
Jan 22 23:00:31 <czr> it starts in very shallow waters, so to speak
Jan 22 23:00:53 <lcuk_2> i tried right at the start, but i dont think i was ready. it all just went over my head. ive had time to digest some stuff now so think if i restart it all i might actually get it together
Jan 22 23:01:20 * czr nods
Jan 22 23:01:28 <czr> it assumes some experience with Linux and C
Jan 22 23:01:40 <czr> although the starting with maemo material should be quite generic
Jan 22 23:02:01 <czr> there's also 'technology overview', but I haven't read it so can't say whether you should either :-)
Jan 22 23:02:10 <lcuk_2> the c part is fine (if a little rusty) but not understanding how linux slotted together and then needing to jump that ont oa cross compilation rig as well just made it go gaga
Jan 22 23:02:34 <lcuk_2> also learning how to type would help
Jan 22 23:02:41 <czr> the getting start material handles that pretty gracefully methinks
Jan 22 23:02:56 <czr> it must be all the pink fur on your back, limiting your movement ;-)
Jan 22 23:03:08 <lcuk_2> yer i am getting better at handling the shell i think
Jan 22 23:03:17 <czr> the shell is your friend after all
Jan 22 23:03:47 <lcuk_2> yer, its not point and click...
Jan 22 23:03:48 * lcuk_2 sobs
Jan 22 23:04:18 <czr> it's for people who appreciate power over repetition
Jan 22 23:04:27 * czr patpats lcuk_2 
Jan 22 23:04:35 <lcuk_2> toolchains for the windows (full/pocket) devices havent changed much in years
Jan 22 23:04:45 <czr> yup
Jan 22 23:05:03 <czr> shell hasn't changed in unix either. for much longer than in windows I might add.
Jan 22 23:05:11 <czr> (at least the basic stuff, and basic commands)
Jan 22 23:05:27 <lcuk_2> there is just an overwhelming amount of - choice - in linux as to which path is best.  i will find my way as i have with python
Jan 22 23:05:33 <czr> and the unix shell exist long past the time when MS decides to drop their poor excuse of a shell from their 4D desktop systems
Jan 22 23:05:41 <czr> lcuk_2, indeed there is :-)
Jan 22 23:06:02 <czr> lcuk_2, try to find people close to you (relatively) and ask them what to use. that way you'll know who to ask about the problems (or just use IRC)
Jan 22 23:06:24 <czr> I'd probably forgo the whole eclipse "experience" if I'd be you
Jan 22 23:06:34 <czr> although you'll probably want to torture yourself with a GUI environment, right?
Jan 22 23:06:47 <lcuk_2> i mentioned that earlier, im gonna see whos knocking around here and grab some training :)
Jan 22 23:06:58 * czr nods
Jan 22 23:07:12 <lcuk_2> not at all, i yearn for a basic (within reason...) editor with a build now button
Jan 22 23:07:15 <czr> also, this channel is pretty friendly if not always very active, feel free to ask
Jan 22 23:07:40 <lcuk_2> i know that, its been a great resource so far :)
Jan 22 23:07:46 <czr> build button = writing make on the command line and pressing enter.. :-)
Jan 22 23:07:58 <czr> <jedi>You don't need the mouse in order to be productive</jedi>
Jan 22 23:08:47 <lcuk_2> no, but the up arrow on 810 is a million miles away - i do editing in notepad here on windows and save back directly with SCP and run it under python
Jan 22 23:08:56 <lcuk_2> its enough to get me comfortable without hassle
Jan 22 23:09:21 <lcuk_2> its about the same effort as it was coding for my pocketpc
Jan 22 23:09:31 <lcuk_2> only its faster...
Jan 22 23:10:51 <lcuk_2> anyway, i think i will re-extract this vmware image and see how far i can get tonight
Jan 22 23:11:22 <lcuk_2> thx for the boost, catch you later :)
Jan 22 23:12:12 <czr> later lcuk_2
Jan 22 23:21:02 <pupnik> Baldur's Gate: http://pupnik.de/Gemrb_Screen1_1280.jpg  :D
Jan 22 23:22:30 <Xamuzk> actually, I use eclipse to edit python
Jan 22 23:23:31 <Xamuzk> pupnik, damn, how did you do it? that game is great!
Jan 22 23:23:42 <pupnik> :P
Jan 22 23:23:51 <pupnik> just got it running 15 minutes ago
Jan 22 23:23:53 <jott> sdl ftw :)
Jan 22 23:24:41 <elb> is baldur's gate open source, now?
Jan 22 23:24:55 <jott> there is a oss clone GemRB ...
Jan 22 23:24:57 <pupnik> no, i bought the 4-game set for like 10 euro
Jan 22 23:25:13 <jott> data files are still not free i suppose
Jan 22 23:25:24 <pupnik> yes, but they are incredibly cheap for the value
Jan 22 23:25:25 <elb> oh, so you're just using the data files from the game?
Jan 22 23:25:29 <pupnik> yes
Jan 22 23:25:34 <elb> interesting
Jan 22 23:25:39 <Xamuzk> cool
Jan 22 23:25:47 <elb> was the game engine reverse-engineered, or are its mechanics known?
Jan 22 23:25:59 <elb> (the accomplishment is awesome, by the way)
Jan 22 23:26:21 * elb reads the docs
Jan 22 23:26:23 <pupnik> reverse engineered by a heroic team over 8 years
Jan 22 23:26:25 <Xamuzk> it's just hard to put 4 CDs inside the N810... it's go sd!
Jan 22 23:26:44 <pupnik> bg2 is about 2.3 GB on SD
Jan 22 23:26:49 <jott> Xamuzk: you could swap 1gb sds ;)
Jan 22 23:26:56 <Xamuzk> cool
Jan 22 23:27:16 <Xamuzk> I quit my gaming days when I chose to use linux
Jan 22 23:27:18 <elb> ahh, I see, the baldur's gate engine is something like the infosys engine
Jan 22 23:27:45 <user_810> xamuz... same here... and no remorse... :D
Jan 22 23:28:19 <maddler_810> doh... didnt realized...
Jan 22 23:30:27 <GeneralAntilles> That's what consoles are for. ;)
Jan 22 23:30:46 <GeneralAntilles> Stick with the last generation and everything's super-cheap, too!
Jan 22 23:33:56 <elb> GeneralAntilles: amen
Jan 22 23:34:14 <elb> GeneralAntilles: I'm rocking out the used PS2 games for $5-10 each -- I never played them when they were new, so they're all new material to me ;-)
Jan 22 23:34:31 <GeneralAntilles> My problem is that I buy the consoles around release and don't buy games until they're in the $10 bin.
Jan 22 23:34:33 <lardman> night chaps
Jan 22 23:34:33 <pupnik> way to go
Jan 22 23:34:37 <pupnik> cu lardman|gone
Jan 22 23:34:40 <GeneralAntilles> I've got a release-day PS2 that I just started getting games for.
Jan 22 23:34:50 <GeneralAntilles> Picked up the GTA series for $12.99 from Best Buy. :D
Jan 22 23:34:51 <elb> I bought the PS2 after the PS3 came out when it dropped to like $100
Jan 22 23:35:11 <GeneralAntilles> Though I admit I get a lot of play out of my 360 and Wii.
Jan 22 23:35:14 <elb> yeah, I picked up GTA:VC for like $4 the other day at Game Stop
Jan 22 23:35:19 <elb> I'm too cheap for the new consoles
Jan 22 23:35:32 <elb> but I completely agree with the sentiment ... computer games just aren't worth the headache
Jan 22 23:35:37 <elb> Windows, drivers, etc.
Jan 22 23:35:50 <elb> I've never had to upgrade DirectX to get my GameCube or PS2 working ;-)
Jan 22 23:35:55 <GeneralAntilles> I'm something of a Mac "gamer".
Jan 22 23:36:04 <GeneralAntilles> Lot of good shareware and freeware stuff out there.
Jan 22 23:36:06 <elb> that said ... StarCraft
Jan 22 23:36:09 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Jan 22 23:36:15 <GeneralAntilles> 12 years old and still going strong!
Jan 22 23:36:21 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, Yeah, and PhotoShop is aaaawesome :D
Jan 22 23:36:32 * maddler_810 keeps playing with his NDS :D
Jan 22 23:36:45 <GeneralAntilles> Always loved the Ambrosias SW stuff.
Jan 22 23:37:00 <GeneralAntilles> s/Ambrosias/Ambrosia/
Jan 22 23:37:00 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: Always loved the Ambrosia SW stuff.
Jan 22 23:37:45 <|R> Maelstrom!
Jan 22 23:38:09 <pupnik> intro sequence working
Jan 22 23:39:01 <Xamuzk> actually, the best game ever for me is Total Anihillation
Jan 22 23:39:52 <GeneralAntilles> Heck, yeah, |R! :D
Jan 22 23:39:54 <pupnik> damn this is so cool
Jan 22 23:40:02 <GeneralAntilles> I miss Avara.
Jan 22 23:41:12 <Xamuzk> the old adventures were also cool
Jan 22 23:56:51 <lcuk_2> :)
Jan 23 00:01:31 <b0unc3> is there any way to set a transparent background on a GtkTextView ?
Jan 23 00:05:10 <Exotics5> Hi all !!!  http://exotics.heavenforum.com --- EXOTICS ADULT FORUM OPENED !  MEMBERSHIP IS FREE !!!  A NEW ADULT FORUM FOR FREE ADULT MATERIALS !   LET'S GET THIS FORUM SUPPORTED AND A HUGE ADULT STORAGE !!!!  COME ON !!!
Jan 23 00:05:56 <NeoStrider> yo!
Jan 23 00:06:09 <pupnik> hey NeoStrider
Jan 23 00:06:23 <NeoStrider> wazzup?
Jan 23 00:06:29 <pupnik> this  Baldur's Gate: http://pupnik.de/Gemrb_Screen1_1280.jpg  :D
Jan 23 00:06:57 <hugolp> pupnik:  I want that
Jan 23 00:06:59 <hugolp> XD
Jan 23 00:08:05 <pupnik> yeah i hope somebody (not me) makes it work well
Jan 23 00:08:46 <pupnik> ooh Fn+ key working in GemRB!
Jan 23 00:09:19 <magicrobotmonkey> what do you guys use to convert videos for n810 on ubuntu?
Jan 23 00:09:55 <pupnik> i use mencoder or 770-encode.pl
Jan 23 00:10:07 <magicrobotmonkey> k
Jan 23 00:10:22 <b0unc3> mediautils.garage.maemo.org iirc
Jan 23 00:10:54 <GeneralAntilles> ^
Jan 23 00:11:01 <GeneralAntilles> Mostly mediaserv, actually.
Jan 23 00:11:01 <magicrobotmonkey> wow that looks good
Jan 23 00:11:07 <GeneralAntilles> Hardly ever pre-encode.
Jan 23 00:11:07 <magicrobotmonkey> yea
Jan 23 00:11:17 <magicrobotmonkey> ive been looking for something like that for a while
Jan 23 00:11:25 <magicrobotmonkey> but i have to pre-encode for the bus
Jan 23 00:12:37 <GeneralAntilles> 3g + a big upstream pipe at home. :D
Jan 23 00:12:51 <GeneralAntilles> Well, 3g or wifi at uni.
Jan 23 00:13:10 <magicrobotmonkey> wonder how evdo would handle it, but my upstream pipe's far too small
Jan 23 00:13:26 <GeneralAntilles> ~1200Kbps for high-quality
Jan 23 00:13:38 <GeneralAntilles> You could get away with as low as ~500Kbps total for OK quality.
Jan 23 00:13:54 <magicrobotmonkey> ill have to hit a bandwidth test next time im on with the phone
Jan 23 00:14:08 <GeneralAntilles> I think evdo is kinda slow
Jan 23 00:14:13 <GeneralAntilles> maybe 20KB/sec
Jan 23 00:14:18 <magicrobotmonkey> yea its not great
Jan 23 00:14:27 <magicrobotmonkey> i can plan ahead a little though
Jan 23 00:14:38 <GeneralAntilles> Pre-encoding isn't particularly hard.
Jan 23 00:14:51 <GeneralAntilles> Set up a script to handle the encoding and copying via scp.
Jan 23 00:14:53 <magicrobotmonkey> yea i just have to know what im gonna want to watc...
Jan 23 00:15:19 <GeneralAntilles> Up the Kbps of the "best" preset to around 1000Kbps for better quality.
Jan 23 00:15:29 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa went a little conservative with it.
Jan 23 00:19:15 <lcuk_2> in the maemovmware image i have managed to get x86 samples compiled and running in xephyr.  i have changed the target to armel and now cannot get xephyr to run.  is this normal or should i be able to still test inside the vmware, or are the applications that i build now totally arm onmly binaries and must run on the devices itself?
Jan 23 00:19:45 <lcuk_2> (or have i messed up again...)
Jan 23 00:20:50 <pupnik> you should be able to leave xephyr running regardless of your active target
Jan 23 00:21:03 <pupnik> it's essentially a 'remote' X server
Jan 23 00:22:49 <lcuk_2> in the instructions they told me to run " af-sb-init.sh stop", change the target and then re-run " af-sb-init.sh start" which i have done.  i thought i did something wrong when i got error messages so closed everything down.  hence having trouble re-opening.  i will put the errors in pastebin if you could take a quick shuftie please
Jan 23 00:23:16 <pupnik> yes
Jan 23 00:23:47 <pupnik> it makes sense that the af-sb-init.sh should be stopped before switching
Jan 23 00:23:59 <pupnik> but af-sb-init.sh is not xephyr
Jan 23 00:26:14 <skibur> Heath Ledger died!
Jan 23 00:26:17 <lcuk_2> when i open the scratchbox environment from the vmware image i get a shell window and empty xephyr window.  when i followed instructions the first time (with x86 target) i got a working maemo desktop within zep.  once i changed the target and did the same errors came
Jan 23 00:27:16 <lcuk_2> pupnik, i gather xephyr is the an emulated device host
Jan 23 00:27:23 <pupnik> yes
Jan 23 00:28:00 <johnx> lcuk_2, xephyr is just an X server
Jan 23 00:28:01 <lcuk_2> i was expecting it to just pop back into maemo desktop once i changed targets so now its not my run of things going smoothly has broken..
Jan 23 00:28:02 <lcuk_2> http://pastebin.org/16579
Jan 23 00:30:30 <magicrobotmonkey> wow mediaserv is amazing!
Jan 23 00:30:39 <kaie> when I connect the n810 to linux via usb cable, i get kernel errors in dmesg. it complains it attempts to access sectors beyond the end of the device
Jan 23 00:30:57 <kaie> does this indicate the original filesystem that came on the internal 2gb memory card is wrong?
Jan 23 00:31:08 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, I think  reformat will fix it.
Jan 23 00:31:24 <lcuk_2> reformat of 810 2GB internal will lose maps
Jan 23 00:31:26 <GeneralAntilles> Evidently it was an issue that was found in the pre-production units but never actually fully fixed for the shipping ones.
Jan 23 00:31:34 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk_2, you can redownload them.
Jan 23 00:31:48 <kaie> ok thanks
Jan 23 00:31:52 <lcuk_2> phew - i wondered about that, they arent in the flash image
Jan 23 00:32:39 <lcuk_2> pupnik
Jan 23 00:32:48 <lcuk_2> its ok, i *think* i have it
Jan 23 00:33:03 <kaie> well, and I can copy the files to another disk before I reformat...
Jan 23 00:33:12 <GeneralAntilles> Gawd, imagine everybody downloading a 2GB firmware image with the server the way it was over the holidays. <_<
Jan 23 00:33:24 <GeneralAntilles> Or do that, kaie.
Jan 23 00:33:24 <kaie> what tool should I use to reformat? mkfs.vfat probably? /me goes to look if that is installed on the n810
Jan 23 00:33:38 <GeneralAntilles> You can probably just format from the filemanager.
Jan 23 00:34:29 <pupnik> ?
Jan 23 00:34:33 <pupnik> oh
Jan 23 00:34:35 <lcuk_2> when on the armel target "af-sb-init.sh start" fails but when i swithc back it works.  i will test in a minute but i believe that the exes built in the shell should just work on the device.
Jan 23 00:35:11 <pupnik> i'll try it here
Jan 23 00:35:13 <lcuk_2> but that when targetting the armel i cannot test
Jan 23 00:35:20 <lcuk_2> ^in the vmware
Jan 23 00:35:31 <pupnik> yes kale
Jan 23 00:37:18 * lcuk_2 is glad there are people around to sound things off on :)
Jan 23 00:38:13 <pupnik> am starting vmware, one minute pls kc
Jan 23 00:38:14 <pupnik> lcuk_2:
Jan 23 00:38:41 <lcuk_2> okies, ive managed to wrestle my device off the missus anway
Jan 23 00:39:49 <lcuk_2> :O holy poo - i just nearly used a lit cig as my stylus.  that will teach me for keeping it in my mouth
Jan 23 00:40:17 <rene4jazz> can I use gtk 2.10 on n770?
Jan 23 00:40:26 <rene4jazz> also libcairo?
Jan 23 00:40:40 <pupnik> i think so
Jan 23 00:40:45 <pupnik> hahahahaha
Jan 23 00:41:22 <rene4jazz> but, what about the floating point aritmetic that libcairo uses?
Jan 23 00:41:37 <pupnik> i can't recreate that problem lcuk_2 .  for what it's worth, i never use the x86 scratchbox target at all
Jan 23 00:41:43 <rene4jazz> it's a special port of libcairo for embeded devices?
Jan 23 00:42:48 <lcuk_2> pup, i dont think its a problem. whats an easy place to put exe files for my testing?
Jan 23 00:43:05 <lcuk_2> /usr/bin ?
Jan 23 00:43:07 <pupnik> i usually scp them to /home/user/<program>
Jan 23 00:43:11 <pupnik> then run them from there
Jan 23 00:43:36 <kbsingh> there are some scary people in the mailing-list
Jan 23 00:43:48 * pupnik raises hand
Jan 23 00:43:48 <lcuk_2> :) /home/user/liq
Jan 23 00:43:58 <kbsingh> someone wants to run spamassassin on a n810
Jan 23 00:43:58 <pupnik> http://maemo4mobile.garage.maemo.org/gdk_cairo.html  rene4jazz check that
Jan 23 00:46:17 <rene4jazz> take a look to "m_cairo_ctx->arc(randx, randy, rands, 0.0, 2.0 * M_PI);"
Jan 23 00:46:31 <rene4jazz> there is floating type value
Jan 23 00:47:07 <rene4jazz> so?, n8xx can work with floats.....and what about n770?
Jan 23 00:48:00 <rene4jazz> does sardine with the gtk 2.10 work on n770? no degradation at all?
Jan 23 00:48:14 <kaie> GeneralAntilles, I don't see a format command in gui filemanager
Jan 23 00:48:21 <kaie> but mkfs.vfat is install
Jan 23 00:48:24 <kaie> +ed
Jan 23 00:48:27 <GeneralAntilles> It's in the menu
Jan 23 00:48:43 <pupnik> rene4jazz: latest distro for 770 is os2007he, which uses 'bora' as its base, so it's not the newest version
Jan 23 00:49:07 <rene4jazz> ?????
Jan 23 00:49:30 <lcuk_2> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ w00000t and all that jazz
Jan 23 00:49:32 <pupnik> it can do floats
Jan 23 00:49:40 <kaie> GeneralAntilles, ok found it, but it's grayed out... maybe I need to stop swap and/or reboot...
Jan 23 00:49:43 <pupnik> restarted scratchbox lcuk_2 ?
Jan 23 00:49:44 * lcuk_2 collapses on the floor
Jan 23 00:49:58 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, gotta kill VM.
Jan 23 00:50:22 <lcuk_2> no pup, when the dev target is set to armel it wont run but i dont care, once i rebuilt the exe and copied over it runs
Jan 23 00:50:27 <rene4jazz> pupnik: does 'bora' uses gtk 2.10?
Jan 23 00:50:49 <GeneralAntilles> Only Chinook, rene4jazz.
Jan 23 00:51:00 <lcuk_2> thats enough for right now, ive had success :)
Jan 23 00:51:16 <lcuk_2> exactly 1 month since i got the device...
Jan 23 00:52:12 <GeneralAntilles> If you were in high-school you could celebrate an anniversary. :P
Jan 23 00:52:39 <rene4jazz> does the n8xx hardware handle the floating point aritmetic, or is emulated?
Jan 23 00:52:41 <lcuk_2> im young at heart - ill go and crack open a beer
Jan 23 00:54:20 <NeoStrider> hey folks
Jan 23 00:54:25 <alterego> You're too young to drink.!
Jan 23 00:54:30 <alterego> Even if it's just yer heart.
Jan 23 00:54:30 <NeoStrider> check out my new video : http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=2ulAlQFD9S0
Jan 23 00:54:39 <NeoStrider> nobody is too young to drink
Jan 23 00:54:53 <NeoStrider> even babies drink some soft kind of Moloko =-)
Jan 23 00:55:08 <lcuk_2> vodka on top
Jan 23 00:55:26 <NeoStrider> (moloko -> clockwork orange)
Jan 23 00:55:34 <alterego> Nice framerate ..
Jan 23 00:55:40 <NeoStrider> =-D
Jan 23 00:55:43 <NeoStrider> thanks
Jan 23 00:55:48 <NeoStrider> almost the same @ 770
Jan 23 00:58:25 <lcuk_2> one final question for the night.  vmware eclipse: i cannot view any of the header files.  clicking open definition on a header says "could not find include file 'hildon/hildon-program.h' on include paths" where do i find them (so i can add the path..)
Jan 23 01:00:22 <johnx> lcuk_2, find / -name hildon-program.h inside scratchbox :)
Jan 23 01:00:40 <johnx> or even find /usr -name blah
Jan 23 01:01:13 <lcuk_2> thx john, its wildly searching now, ive been scratching my head about that..
Jan 23 01:01:41 <johnx> actually, you can pretty much assume that all your headers (bleh.h) are in /usr/include
Jan 23 01:01:48 <johnx> I just gave you the shotgun approach
Jan 23 01:02:20 <alterego> Hopefully this server migration will go as planned.
Jan 23 01:02:32 <alterego> I'm sick of all the downtime I'm getting from my current providers >:(
Jan 23 01:04:09 <johnx> rene4jazz, the N8x0 hardware can do floating point, but depending on how libraries/apps are compiled it may or may not be used
Jan 23 01:04:59 <lcuk_2> its hit 4 versions (1 for each target), for example: /targets/CHINOOK_ARMEL/usr/include/hildon-1/hildon/hildon-program.h   does that imply that "hildon-1" is configured as an additional include path (ontop of usr/include) or does the compiler just look recursively?
Jan 23 01:05:03 <alterego> I don't think VPF is enabled in default compilation. I think you'll have to set the flag explicitly during build time.
Jan 23 01:05:52 <alterego> I wonder if we start a donation pot, whether we could get the funds together to buy the rights to distribute the drivers for the 3D graphics adapter.
Jan 23 01:06:17 <GeneralAntilles> Donating pot?
Jan 23 01:06:33 <alterego> Yeah, if we all put in a bit of cash and try and buy it from imagination
Jan 23 01:06:46 <alterego> Kind of like how Blender got OS
Jan 23 01:06:52 <johnx> alterego, nah. I want to buy the closed source maemo stuff from Nokia first :/
Jan 23 01:07:01 <alterego> Why?
Jan 23 01:07:16 <johnx> to avoid the 770 situation happening next year
Jan 23 01:07:20 <alterego> Most of the closed source stuff is pointless and can be replaced pretty easily :P
Jan 23 01:07:22 <lcuk_2> alter i dont think its funds we need.  we need to activate the powervr and then code up something to copy the (640*480 max) rendered screen from within the 2420 onto the lcd controller
Jan 23 01:07:41 <alterego> johnx, the N8x0 devices will be updated until 2010.
Jan 23 01:08:09 <johnx> and I could see them lasting much longer than that in terms of hardware
Jan 23 01:08:16 <alterego> You have to remember that the N810, which has just been released isn't going to go out of date in a year. Which means the N800 will not either.
Jan 23 01:08:47 <johnx> I still don't like being beholden to the whim of a single company
Jan 23 01:08:48 <alterego> N8x0's will probably get supported 2010 releases aswell ..
Jan 23 01:08:55 <alterego> You're not.
Jan 23 01:09:14 <johnx> and I intend it to stay that way. :)
Jan 23 01:09:15 <alterego> You can work on your own OS for it if you like. The platform is pretty open really ..
Jan 23 01:09:24 <johnx> it's mostly open
Jan 23 01:09:29 <alterego> Except the 3D drivers ..
Jan 23 01:09:38 <johnx> it's better than the zaurus situation was at any rate
Jan 23 01:09:56 <johnx> do we even know if the 3D chip will help that much?
Jan 23 01:10:11 <alterego> Sure, for 3D.
Jan 23 01:10:32 <johnx> oh also, epiphany-webkit runs *great* on an N800 under Debian :)
Jan 23 01:10:44 <alterego> Cool.
Jan 23 01:10:50 <lcuk_2> it will change the playing field john.  we move from forcing 3d rendering as software into a problem of moving a finished image from one internal framebuffer to another display framebuffer
Jan 23 01:10:53 <alterego> EABI?
Jan 23 01:10:55 <pupnik> totally forgot what epiphany is
Jan 23 01:11:07 <johnx> alterego, of course
Jan 23 01:11:10 <johnx> pupnik, web browser :)
Jan 23 01:11:19 <alterego> Cool, I really hope armel is adopted fully by debian.
Jan 23 01:11:28 <alterego> Maybe by 2010 ;)
Jan 23 01:11:28 <johnx> alterego, it will be
Jan 23 01:11:33 <johnx> 90% of packages build
Jan 23 01:11:47 <johnx> s/build/are built
Jan 23 01:11:59 <johnx> and it's on track for the next stable release AFAIK
Jan 23 01:12:14 <johnx> debian ARMEL is here to stay...in the debian "long term" :D
Jan 23 01:12:14 <alterego> Ah, in 2010 :D
Jan 23 01:12:26 <johnx> whatever. :P no one uses stable anyways
Jan 23 01:12:27 <johnx> heh
Jan 23 01:12:29 <alterego> Naturally, will it replace 'arm' though?
Jan 23 01:12:34 * alterego does.
Jan 23 01:13:03 <johnx> you already use packages that debian marks "unstable" on your tablet
Jan 23 01:13:16 <alterego> Sure,
Jan 23 01:13:25 <johnx> it won't replace ARM because ARM still exists to support the StrongARM (armv4)
Jan 23 01:13:28 <alterego> But maemo isn't strictly debian :P
Jan 23 01:13:43 <johnx> but once there are no more users for arm they'll drop it in favor of armel
Jan 23 01:13:43 <alterego> They should rename it armv4 then ..
Jan 23 01:14:02 <johnx> well, it's really arm OABI
Jan 23 01:14:09 <alterego> Heh
Jan 23 01:14:18 <rene4jazz> does any one have a link to install debian on the tablets?
Jan 23 01:14:27 <johnx> rene4jazz, ahahaha
Jan 23 01:14:28 <johnx> hahaha
Jan 23 01:14:29 <johnx> ha
Jan 23 01:14:30 <johnx> heh
Jan 23 01:14:34 <johnx> no
Jan 23 01:14:43 <jott> johnx: why not? *gg*
Jan 23 01:14:48 <johnx> I'll post a writeup later today
Jan 23 01:15:11 <alterego> It's not much effort really.
Jan 23 01:15:12 <johnx> actually, what would be an appropriate wiki to put it on?
Jan 23 01:15:28 <alterego> I'm presuming you can use debootstrap and the unofficial armel repository.
Jan 23 01:15:29 <rene4jazz> I'm thinking maybe DSL will fit well on the tablet hardware
Jan 23 01:15:36 <johnx> rene4jazz, if you want a debian chroot it is incredibly simple
Jan 23 01:15:43 <johnx> rene4jazz, is DSL compiled for ARM?
Jan 23 01:16:00 <rene4jazz> no yet, but I'm looking for info
Jan 23 01:16:11 <johnx> if you want to boot debian it's a little more in depth
Jan 23 01:16:41 <alterego> Sure, but basically you use debootstrap to create the rootfs? Then you hack the initfs
Jan 23 01:17:00 <rene4jazz> but the mayor problem I think is related to input (virtual keyboard, hand writing recog, etc)
Jan 23 01:17:09 <alterego> rene4jazz, not on the N810 ;)
Jan 23 01:17:14 <alterego> Or with a USB HID keyboard.
Jan 23 01:17:16 <rene4jazz> haha, write
Jan 23 01:17:36 <rene4jazz> I'm a n770 user :D
Jan 23 01:17:53 <johnx> alterego, unless you have a different kernel than the included one you don't get console on framebuffer :P
Jan 23 01:18:24 <alterego> Interesting.
Jan 23 01:18:41 <alterego> Are you sure you can't just change the boot parameters?
Jan 23 01:19:00 <johnx> alterego, I have no idea honestly
Jan 23 01:19:08 <alterego> Ah, worth looking into then ;)
Jan 23 01:19:09 <johnx> but console on framebuffer isn't in their kernel config
Jan 23 01:19:20 <alterego> Oh
Jan 23 01:19:27 <johnx> and enabling it gets me nothing
Jan 23 01:19:30 <lcuk_2> ive seen people anting to view the boot commands but noone has managed it
Jan 23 01:19:37 <lcuk_2> wanting^
Jan 23 01:19:38 <rene4jazz> but GPE also has an available virtual keyboard
Jan 23 01:19:50 <johnx> rene4jazz, that's what I intend to use
Jan 23 01:19:53 <alterego> Should be in the fiasco image somewhere.
Jan 23 01:19:56 <johnx> I'm having issues writing to /dev/fb0 actually
Jan 23 01:20:21 <rene4jazz> johnx: do you have any posts on that_
Jan 23 01:20:22 <rene4jazz> ?
Jan 23 01:20:31 <johnx> rene4jazz, no
Jan 23 01:20:37 <johnx> I think a wiki is a better medium for this
Jan 23 01:20:46 <johnx> so how about someone suggests a wiki to put the writeup on?
Jan 23 01:21:35 <johnx> is maemo.org more appropriate or internettablettalk?
Jan 23 01:21:42 <rene4jazz> I think that the memory consuption of the OS is to much, just after booting it uses half of ram
Jan 23 01:22:09 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, they both seem a bit like cess-pools. :P
Jan 23 01:22:17 <johnx> rene4jazz, how much of that is "cached"
Jan 23 01:22:21 <alterego> GeneralAntilles, ;)
Jan 23 01:22:22 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, so suggest a better one!
Jan 23 01:22:29 <johnx> I'm not hosting this on my personal site
Jan 23 01:22:31 <alterego> I think a blog post is fine.
Jan 23 01:22:32 <jott> wiki.debian.org? :)
Jan 23 01:22:36 <alterego> Hah
Jan 23 01:22:37 <johnx> the bandwidth will kill me
Jan 23 01:22:38 <GeneralAntilles> I'd say ITT has more momentum behinds its improvement
Jan 23 01:22:47 <rene4jazz> I remember that I used a pentium 1 133Mhz with 32MB of ram  AND Win98SE
Jan 23 01:22:55 <GeneralAntilles> but that could be just because I've been doing a lot of cheerleading for it recently.
Jan 23 01:23:18 <johnx> jott, that actually seems like a good idea
Jan 23 01:23:31 <johnx> post on wiki.debian.org and link to it on the forums
Jan 23 01:23:48 <johnx> a thread is the opposite of helpful to anyone who shows up late
Jan 23 01:23:54 <alterego> Yeah ..
Jan 23 01:24:04 <johnx> I want to avoid answering the same question a thousand times if possible
Jan 23 01:24:05 <jott> yeah .. that's why i don't like forums ;)
Jan 23 01:24:24 <johnx> leaning towards wiki.debian
Jan 23 01:24:27 <rene4jazz> Well, I have the cpu/memory tray app on OS 2007 HE and I think it shows memory used, cached and free, the first is green, the second in darker green and the las black
Jan 23 01:24:48 <johnx> rene4jazz, what does "free" say though?
Jan 23 01:25:18 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, why not all three?
Jan 23 01:25:35 <rene4jazz> half of available memory
Jan 23 01:25:52 <johnx> rene4jazz, well that kinda sucks
Jan 23 01:26:08 <johnx> no wonder debian feels so snappy
Jan 23 01:26:19 <rene4jazz> yea, it is
Jan 23 01:26:36 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I want a *definitive* location for this, where people will *update* it and not have it turn into 30 different "howtos"
Jan 23 01:27:00 <GeneralAntilles> Fine, fine.
Jan 23 01:27:10 <GeneralAntilles> At least stick a link to it on the other two. :P
Jan 23 01:27:16 <johnx> of course!
Jan 23 01:29:42 <rene4jazz> I have looking for some details on that, and in the available docs (presentation) it seems to be a very good deal of decisions on maemo arch to reduce memory footprint.
Jan 23 01:30:04 <johnx> rene4jazz, actually, you're on a 770, right?
Jan 23 01:30:11 <rene4jazz> yea
Jan 23 01:30:14 <johnx> so it's only using 32MB of RAM?
Jan 23 01:30:19 <johnx> that's actually pretty good
Jan 23 01:30:25 <rene4jazz> it has 64MB of ram (DDR)
Jan 23 01:30:51 <rene4jazz> I think that is to much
Jan 23 01:31:20 <johnx> I don't see where you'd save much memory though
Jan 23 01:33:55 <johnx> rene4jazz, though if you're not really attached to hildon/maemo you could look at the OpenEmbedded project
Jan 23 01:34:12 <johnx> they have a kernel and possibly an xserver for the 770
Jan 23 01:36:11 <|tbb|> could anyone help me with dbus-send and setting presence
Jan 23 01:41:49 <bmidgley> johnx: how good is power management using debian on 770/n800?
Jan 23 01:42:01 <johnx> bmidgley, unavailable as of right now
Jan 23 01:42:23 <johnx> screen is set to full brightness, CPU is probably running at 400MHz the whole time
Jan 23 01:42:39 <johnx> hmm, actually CPU scaling seems to work
Jan 23 01:42:46 <bmidgley> so you keep it plugged in :)
Jan 23 01:42:53 <johnx> yeah
Jan 23 01:43:04 <johnx> on batteries it lasts maybe an hour or two under debian
Jan 23 01:43:34 <bmidgley> that sounds like my neo1973
Jan 23 01:43:35 <jott> you could use the dsmetest tool in the initfs chroot to change brightness without big effort
Jan 23 01:43:57 <johnx> jott, good to know. I haven't even gotten that far yet :D
Jan 23 01:44:08 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, any idea on why the itt wiki won't keeps logging me out?
Jan 23 01:44:26 <GeneralAntilles> iunno
Jan 23 01:44:30 <GeneralAntilles> Fix yer cookies?
Jan 23 01:44:52 <johnx> the forum logs me in with cookies automagically
Jan 23 01:44:53 <jott> eat the cookie and you will be forgotten! :)
Jan 23 01:44:59 <johnx> I'll try on a different browser
Jan 23 01:45:02 <johnx> mmm...cookies
Jan 23 01:45:24 * GeneralAntilles only has cake right now.
Jan 23 01:48:19 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, good call. It works under opera
Jan 23 02:03:20 <pupnik> i hope someone figures out how to regrow brain cells before too long
Jan 23 02:05:11 <GeneralAntilles> Amen to that.
Jan 23 02:05:53 <|tbb|> yeah, got it
Jan 23 02:07:39 <|tbb|> this was cost 2 hours of sleep, but i hope i could sleep better now
Jan 23 02:07:45 <|tbb|> night all
Jan 23 02:09:04 <johnx> 'night |tbb|
Jan 23 02:12:00 <alterego> I don't know whether it's the transflective display. but the N810 is a lot easier on the eyes in the dark when set to it's lowest setting.
Jan 23 02:14:54 <GeneralAntilles> Default software, alterego?
Jan 23 02:15:04 <lcuk_2> alter, its all fun and games until the 810 ambient sensor picks up an odd bit of light and decides your screen needs adjusting.
Jan 23 02:15:13 <pupnik> argh, vmplayer plus this this scratchbox vm keeps nuking x11's host caps and shift keys
Jan 23 02:15:20 * lcuk_2 has a sticker over his to keep brightness as set
Jan 23 02:15:44 <pupnik> i mean ctrl and shift
Jan 23 02:15:50 <GeneralAntilles> The brightness of the N800 is way off under OS2008.
Jan 23 02:15:51 <alterego> lcuk_2, use yer thumb :P
Jan 23 02:15:57 <GeneralAntilles> Doesn't get as dark as the N810
Jan 23 02:16:02 <GeneralAntilles> Try this for your N800: http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight_0.5-1_armel.deb
Jan 23 02:16:05 <alterego> Yeah, no light sensor.
Jan 23 02:16:18 <lcuk_2> no alter, i hold it with my right hand...
Jan 23 02:16:19 <GeneralAntilles> and your N810, too.
Jan 23 02:16:33 <alterego> Oh my god, you're not one of _those_ are you lcuk_2 ? :)
Jan 23 02:16:52 <lcuk_2> ..
Jan 23 02:17:44 <alterego> Well, I've just finished setting up my two dedicated hosts.
Jan 23 02:17:52 * lcuk_2 has a "well done" red sticker with a smiley frog on it this week
Jan 23 02:18:26 <alterego> Now I need to setup several virtual environments for various server tasks .. Two DNS, DB, SVN, MX and VHosting ..
Jan 23 02:18:28 <lcuk_2> GeneralAntilles, thats rm's proggy aint it?
Jan 23 02:18:32 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah.
Jan 23 02:18:38 <GeneralAntilles> All packaged up and purty.
Jan 23 02:18:38 <alterego> It's 2am and I'm knackered .. :(
Jan 23 02:18:45 <lcuk_2> oooh
Jan 23 02:18:53 <lcuk_2> ill try it then again now
Jan 23 02:22:06 <alterego> Right, I'm gonna go to bed and do some reading up on OpenVZ. G'night folks.
Jan 23 02:22:24 <lcuk_2> nite alter :) thx
Jan 23 02:22:26 <petergunn> is there a vncserver available for maemo? (not X11vnc)
Jan 23 02:23:32 <GeneralAntilles> x11vnc?
Jan 23 02:24:05 <petergunn> I want to create a second larger display
Jan 23 02:24:34 <petergunn> thats only visible via vncviewer
Jan 23 02:25:19 <petergunn> I think X11vnc only works with real X displays
Jan 23 02:26:08 <johnx> is there a VNC server for Linux that isn't backed by an XServer?
Jan 23 02:26:29 <pupnik> what kind of programs would run on it
Jan 23 02:26:52 <johnx> maybe you could get xvfb and export it with a vncserver
Jan 23 02:26:53 <jott> vncserver can run a virtual xserver without multiplexing...
Jan 23 02:27:10 <johnx> jott, did not know that. cool!
Jan 23 02:27:45 <petergunn> yeah - i want to host a 1024x768 KDE desktop on my n800
Jan 23 02:28:08 <petergunn> would be easy if I could find a regular vncserver binary
Jan 23 02:28:27 <petergunn> tried to compile in scratchbox but no luck
Jan 23 02:28:37 <johnx> petergunn, with mud builder?
Jan 23 02:29:00 <petergunn> never tried mud builder
Jan 23 02:29:05 * petergunn goes googling
Jan 23 02:30:13 <johnx> it's really, really nice for taking debian source packages and automatically handling the dependencies
Jan 23 02:30:41 * petergunn thinks he should have started with the debian source package :-)
Jan 23 02:31:12 <pupnik> i could not get friendly with mud-builder
Jan 23 02:31:21 <johnx> pupnik, really?
Jan 23 02:31:30 <johnx> it's kind of hit or miss but it's so easy it's always worth a shot
Jan 23 02:32:03 <petergunn> no time - have to try again when I get a break
Jan 23 02:32:04 <petergunn> ttfn
Jan 23 02:42:32 <pupnik> muhaha 800x480 mode working
Jan 23 02:43:10 <jott> bg2 or what? :)
Jan 23 02:43:22 <pupnik> ya
Jan 23 02:43:31 <jott> nice
Jan 23 02:43:54 <jott> and a right click solution?! ;)
Jan 23 02:44:06 <pupnik> well i think it might be drawing 800x600 actually with portions offscreen
Jan 23 02:52:22 <pupnik> steady 19-26 fps in 640x480
Jan 23 02:52:48 <jott> wow.. even with heavy fights?!
Jan 23 02:53:17 <pupnik> i haven't been able to pick up a weapon yet
Jan 23 02:54:48 <pupnik> ok just figured that out ;0 - one doesnt drag them but instead taps to pick up and taps to put down
Jan 23 02:55:10 <jott> to the battlefield!
Jan 23 02:55:34 <darx> hi guys, can i overclock my n800 beyond 400mhz? the flash performance (or the lack thereof) is annoying
Jan 23 02:57:41 <pupnik> lockpicking/traps seems broken
Jan 23 02:58:39 <pupnik> the canonical sbemail runs nicely
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jan 23 02:59:57 2008