**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 06 02:59:57 2008 Feb 06 03:55:20 b0unc3, did you have to do much special to get my debian tarball working on your 770? Feb 06 04:10:07 I think this weekend I'm gonna see if i can install scratchbox and maemo on gOS Feb 06 04:10:24 you have something running gOS? Feb 06 04:10:33 i will as of tomorrow Feb 06 04:10:44 a walmart PC or that cloudbook thing? Feb 06 04:10:56 installing it on my old 500mhz system Feb 06 04:11:10 probably gonna buy the everx gPC with the money from selling my n800 Feb 06 04:11:13 ah, cool Feb 06 04:11:32 need a real portable instead of something pocketable? Feb 06 04:12:08 well i have my n810 Feb 06 04:12:12 aaah Feb 06 04:12:21 that makes sense then Feb 06 04:12:25 just trying to cycle out the power hungry beasts for something more green Feb 06 04:12:57 i got rid of a 3ghz opteron 2 years ago and replaced it with a 1.4ghz geode Feb 06 04:13:08 eh, I like my power hungry desktop...I will always find a way to use all the CPU power available to me Feb 06 04:13:13 dropped my electric bill about $20 a year Feb 06 04:13:30 well i have 7 systems in here right now Feb 06 04:13:40 that starts to make more sense :) Feb 06 04:13:46 trying to downscale the towers to rackmounts and get something more green for the rest Feb 06 04:13:58 I assume the geode is for a fileserver? Feb 06 04:14:57 nah, just a cheapo low power desktop Feb 06 04:15:04 it's actually my windows box right now lol Feb 06 04:15:35 at my last job I actually deployed a whole bunch of Geode thinclients running Debian and acting as "web kiosk" machines Feb 06 04:16:28 it was really awesome because I trimmed down the desktop until firefox ran faster on them (1GHz Geode/256MB RAM) then it did on the G5 iMacs they replaced... Feb 06 04:16:46 yeah, they are amazing machines Feb 06 04:16:51 I was worried about the people using them complaining but they were happy to have the "upgrade" :D Feb 06 04:16:56 i was dissapointed when AMD discontinued the series Feb 06 04:17:05 granted the iMacs were running way too much crap... Feb 06 04:17:34 did they? Feb 06 04:17:39 I didn't even know that Feb 06 04:17:51 At least Via and Intel seem commited to low power stuff Feb 06 04:18:01 amd is making a new low power series Feb 06 04:18:34 mmm...solid state machines with a read-only root filesystem are *so damn easy* to maintain Feb 06 04:18:48 indeed Feb 06 04:19:17 your machine burst into flames? *replace with a spare* then *RMA* Feb 06 04:19:21 the one thing that pisses me off about solid state machines is that about 10 years ago i had a really good plan for a solid state macine, had schematics and everything drawn up Feb 06 04:20:04 except back then solid state was redcilously expensive and not as abundant as it is now Feb 06 04:20:10 yeah Feb 06 04:20:20 just these last two years flash prices have gone through the floor Feb 06 04:20:46 yeah i know Feb 06 04:21:01 3 years ago a 1gb transflash card was like $120 Feb 06 04:21:10 now i can get a 2gb transflash card for $14 Feb 06 04:21:18 with sd, minisd, and usb adapters Feb 06 04:21:41 when I was rolling these out I had to settle for 512MB of flash for / Feb 06 04:21:54 ouch Feb 06 04:22:07 it was a heck of a lot better than 256MB O_o Feb 06 04:22:09 the one i have is still somewhat like a normal desktop, using pc3200 Feb 06 04:22:56 I "inherited" the first round of machines with 128MB RAM / 256MB flash and told to get them working for what we needed, but that really didn't work out Feb 06 04:23:12 lol Feb 06 04:23:26 mine came with 256mb ram and preloaded with linspire Feb 06 04:25:03 yeah, they were totally unusable with firefox :/ Feb 06 04:25:26 yeah, it came with ff 1.5 that was all stripped down Feb 06 04:26:07 the linux install they came with was totally broken Feb 06 04:26:17 painfully broken...just really bad Feb 06 04:26:53 the second round with 512MB of flash came with a really great small debian install Feb 06 04:27:24 HP even made packages for their proprietary stuff, so I just dpkg --purge'd their stuff and went on my way Feb 06 04:29:01 nice Feb 06 04:29:23 mine came on some crappy ECS mobo, got it on the fry's electronics GQ brand Feb 06 04:29:45 aaah, ECS Feb 06 04:32:26 let's see, the ones I used were HP t5725 thin clients Feb 06 04:32:55 not exactly small for thin clients, and they ran kinda warm...but really nice little things Feb 06 04:46:08 hump Feb 06 05:25:17 gah! Xomap opens and reads from /dev/input/event2 in ITOS but won't in Debian Feb 06 05:45:57 johnx: Xomap based off tinyX? Feb 06 05:46:55 yeah, I guess they call it "kdrive" now Feb 06 05:47:01 I'm downloading the source now Feb 06 05:47:30 I think kdrive servers take an argument for the input device Feb 06 05:48:22 I'm handing it exactly the same arguments as in ITOS...but maybe an environment variable somewhere? Feb 06 05:51:37 yeah... TSLIB_DEVICE or something like that Feb 06 05:58:16 Environment Variables Feb 06 05:58:17 ===================== Feb 06 05:58:17 TSLIB_TSDEVICE TS device file name. Feb 06 05:58:17 Default (non inputapi): /dev/touchscreen/ucb1x00 Feb 06 05:58:18 Default (inputapi): /dev/input/event0 Feb 06 05:58:19 TSLIB_CALIBFILE Calibration file. Feb 06 05:58:19 Default: ${sysconfdir}/pointercal Feb 06 05:58:21 TSLIB_CONFFILE Config file. Feb 06 05:58:23 Default: ${sysconfdir}/ts.conf Feb 06 05:58:25 TSLIB_PLUGINDIR Plugin directory. Feb 06 05:58:27 Default: ${datadir}/plugins Feb 06 05:58:29 TSLIB_CONSOLEDEVICE Console device. Feb 06 05:58:31 Default: /dev/tty Feb 06 05:58:33 TSLIB_FBDEVICE Framebuffer device. Feb 06 05:58:35 Default: /dev/fb0 Feb 06 05:58:37 johnx: from http://svn.berlios.de/viewcvs/tslib/trunk/tslib/README?view=markup Feb 06 05:58:44 ah, thanks Feb 06 05:58:54 though the touchscreen actually *works* Feb 06 05:59:03 I figured it was going to be the big problem Feb 06 05:59:12 but it worked out of the box pretty much Feb 06 05:59:31 I can't make the hardware buttons work in X at all :/ Feb 06 05:59:44 I am curious about how it works in the sensitivity dept for you Feb 06 05:59:55 hmm? Feb 06 05:59:55 OS2008 has troubles IMHO Feb 06 06:00:14 troubles distinguishing between stylus and finger taps Feb 06 06:00:15 is there an easy way to test that? Feb 06 06:00:43 no, I was planning to test that after I am done with my battery tests Feb 06 06:00:59 but I haven't thought about it yet Feb 06 06:02:24 is this the best way to convert videos for n800? http://mediaconverter.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 06 06:02:28 how about command line? Feb 06 06:02:52 tablet-encode (formerly 770-encode.pl) Feb 06 06:03:15 tablet-encode just calls mencoder so there's a lot of flexibility Feb 06 06:03:43 johnx: the buttons are in 2 seperate event devices Feb 06 06:03:55 hmm Feb 06 06:04:01 but you probally just care about one of them (the other is the power button) Feb 06 06:04:06 ah Feb 06 06:04:07 johnx: on. thanks. I'll check it out Feb 06 06:04:14 if you have udev, /dev/input/ has 3 entries Feb 06 06:04:21 four actually... Feb 06 06:04:33 4?! hmmm interesting, wonder what's the other one Feb 06 06:04:36 event2 seems to be physical buttons Feb 06 06:04:40 event3 is touchscreen Feb 06 06:04:50 1 or 0 must be the power button? Feb 06 06:05:34 I think one might have something to do with the wired remote? Feb 06 06:05:56 810 or 800? Feb 06 06:05:57 event0 is power Feb 06 06:06:00 n800 Feb 06 06:06:22 OS2008 and Debian w/ OS2008 kernel Feb 06 06:06:36 hmmm Feb 06 06:06:51 yeah, /dev/input/by-path/platform-retu-headset-event is a link to event1 Feb 06 06:08:49 Tama^2, I ran xev and no matter how hard I pressed it came up as button1 Feb 06 06:08:56 don't know if that helps you Feb 06 06:10:00 mmm interesting Feb 06 06:11:15 keep in mind that for some reason Xomap seems to be acting differently for me under Debian vs under OS2008 Feb 06 06:11:50 I guess to find out I will have to look at how text fields are setup to bring up the thumb keyb Feb 06 06:26:56 man, the n810 is more sexy than the iphone Feb 06 06:36:04 that it is, for now Feb 06 06:37:11 man i gotta get back into dev for the n800 Feb 06 06:38:02 Feb 06 06:38:26 seems like the video is doing a good job as if. Feb 06 06:38:37 i figured everything out i needed to for the program i was trying to make.. and never put it all together cuz it seemed like the mountain was already climbed on my part ;p Feb 06 06:38:51 no payoff Feb 06 06:40:01 plus i couldnt get scratchbox to work really the way i wanted it to, so typing everything out on the n800 with a stylus seemed a bit tedious ;) Feb 06 06:40:06 someone was making an D-cell batterypack for N810? Was there any results? Could be good on long fights etc. Feb 06 06:40:42 I use a vmware image of debian for my scratchbox Feb 06 06:41:15 for n800 compiling? Feb 06 06:41:24 yeah Feb 06 06:41:49 ahh you run windows, and vmware debian.. with scratchbox inside? Feb 06 06:42:00 exactly Feb 06 06:42:31 nah i run ubuntu fulltime.. i have it working, its just not exactly helpful.. i could do the same thing more or less ssh'ing into the n800 Feb 06 06:43:54 thing is im developing in ruby.. and didnt feel like working out how to install ruby-maemo and ruby-dbus in scratchbox Feb 06 06:43:56 I'm a vb/web programmer so I gave up on maemo dev for now Feb 06 06:44:10 not that i couldnt.. just dont feel like putting more on the plate ;p Feb 06 06:44:47 yeah the real reason i guess im lax is my work just figured out i can program so they're throwing a bunch of excel spreadsheet work at me.. vba.. mmm Feb 06 06:44:53 that mmm was sarcastic btw ;p Feb 06 06:45:04 heh Feb 06 06:45:39 i gave up on vb when i was 14.. sucks to go back.. but anything to put on the resume.. i'll do it Feb 06 06:45:46 you know other langs right? Feb 06 06:46:33 I work on some cross platform programming too, but the dev tool needs gl and x86 to run the binary, so n800 is out Feb 06 06:47:09 right Feb 06 06:47:20 you know what a hash is? Feb 06 06:47:26 I'm mostly a web programmer, php/asp/perl/etc Feb 06 06:47:37 like an array.. but you access with {"whatever"} Feb 06 06:47:41 type of thing Feb 06 06:47:46 and returns a key Feb 06 06:47:51 does vb have such a thing? Feb 06 06:48:11 err returns a value Feb 06 06:48:14 I'm sure it does Feb 06 06:48:17 sorry had a few beers Feb 06 06:48:39 I had a few too few Feb 06 06:48:47 aaah, the grand tradition of drunken IRC Feb 06 06:49:00 :P Feb 06 06:49:14 well im jumping through crazy ass hoops to do everything the old fashioned way ;) when im now used to php or ruby type stuff.. all the nice 90s programmer perks Feb 06 06:49:16 heh Feb 06 06:49:19 you aint lyin Feb 06 06:49:23 grand tradition indeed Feb 06 06:49:46 notice i said 90s ;) Feb 06 06:49:49 vb's lame Feb 06 06:49:51 so is it tuesday night where you guys are? or wednesday morning? Feb 06 06:49:55 I should look into ruby Feb 06 06:51:04 Radar-, good stuff.. especially for web with rails.. but the language itself is really well thought out.. and uhh 'alterego' in here even packaged up a ruby-maemo package so you can use gtk to build gui interfaces on the n800 pretty darn easily Feb 06 06:51:13 johnx, tues, im in cali Feb 06 06:51:54 ah Feb 06 06:52:10 I'll stick with just installing/modifying pre-built scripts on websites as needed, heh Feb 06 06:52:32 abuse oof open source! Feb 06 06:52:36 heh Feb 06 06:52:49 its really somethin.. you do alot of database stuff with php or no? Feb 06 06:52:49 and I guess I fall into the third category, not so much "developing" as "hacking around" :) Feb 06 06:53:16 johnx, we all stand on the shoulders of giants Feb 06 06:53:19 I hate the virtual keyboard on the n800. always double types letters Feb 06 06:53:27 call yourself a developer, give it an upgrade Feb 06 06:53:50 Radar-, os2008 increased sensitivity i think Feb 06 06:54:00 heh...I'm really just trying to get code that's already out there working Feb 06 06:54:00 thats when i noticed it Feb 06 06:54:11 yeah, it did Feb 06 06:54:16 johnx, for what? Feb 06 06:54:34 working on getting a real debian system running on the N800 Feb 06 06:54:47 ahh big project Feb 06 06:54:52 lots of hacking, not much programming :) Feb 06 06:55:10 like you said, standing on the shoulders of giants :) Feb 06 06:55:17 always Feb 06 06:55:38 how did the kde guys do it? Feb 06 06:55:48 is that just on top of os2008? Feb 06 06:55:49 they're just running it inside ITOS Feb 06 06:56:01 the iphone with an sdk and the asus eee pc also look tempting Feb 06 06:56:01 yeah, I think they carefully kill off some stuff, then launch KDE Feb 06 06:56:39 hmm, obviously doable.. whats the current roadblock ya got? Feb 06 06:56:51 I'll wait to see what apple actually offers in terms of the SDK, ie what can be accessed, whether you can freely distribute your binaries, how to install on the phone... Feb 06 06:56:53 Radar-, iphone's 700mhz is sexy.. i just hate the hype Feb 06 06:57:02 Radar-, have you seen the eee in person? Feb 06 06:57:11 not yet Feb 06 06:57:18 i have.. Feb 06 06:57:20 eh. Feb 06 06:57:26 truent, hardware buttons, sound and *gag* power management :/ Feb 06 06:57:31 haven't found a store that carries it Feb 06 06:58:01 if tthey add a larger screen in the same form factor, win Feb 06 06:58:02 if i showed the guys at the store i saw the eeepc at the n800 they'd definitely give some oo's and ah's Feb 06 06:58:22 eee is interesting, I guess...but not very pocketable Feb 06 06:58:26 johnx, yeah you need a team methinks.. of people more giantish than you Feb 06 06:58:30 ;p Feb 06 06:59:01 well thankfully their are other people working on it, but that's why I keep plugging it in IRC :D Feb 06 06:59:02 my n800 in its case fits in my coat pocket, thatt's about it Feb 06 06:59:10 johnx, gotcha Feb 06 06:59:30 im not your man btw :P Feb 06 06:59:38 too much headache for me for sure Feb 06 06:59:50 im down to test though if you ever need that :P Feb 06 07:00:06 fair enough, but if you have a friend who asks about Debian on the Nokia tablets you can send him here Feb 06 07:00:24 eeepc was just a lil lackluster, when ive seen it on websites i wanted it.. but when i saw it in person i was glad i had an n800 ;p Feb 06 07:00:32 no doubt Feb 06 07:00:51 Radar-, no case for me. I live dangerously Feb 06 07:01:19 debian running in a scratchbox in a debian image in vmware in windows! Feb 06 07:01:27 i got that slothskin wallet that came in the n800 box, does that count? Feb 06 07:01:33 lol Feb 06 07:02:07 speaking of virtual kb, there is a matchbox package in extra. anyone tried to install it? ;-) Feb 06 07:02:26 I like the access to the full catalog of software that an eee running ubuuntu would have Feb 06 07:02:49 Radar-, what about johnx's debian? ;P Feb 06 07:03:12 crazy talk! Feb 06 07:03:24 Tama^2, which part of matchbox is it? keyboard? desktop? Feb 06 07:03:32 keyboard Feb 06 07:03:37 Radar-, maybe i missed somethin when i was lookin, but on the eeepc i couldnt even find an xterm to really mess around, and i looked Feb 06 07:03:44 aah...it goes with the CJK stuff right? Feb 06 07:03:46 the odd thing is that of course it must be already inatalled Feb 06 07:03:54 *installed Feb 06 07:04:10 hmm...I think not Feb 06 07:04:15 not sure the package description does not mention CJK Feb 06 07:04:16 thhe default os on the eee is prretty limited Feb 06 07:04:39 IIRC, Nokia uses hildon-keyboard and matchbox-window-manager Feb 06 07:04:47 more visual focused than functional Feb 06 07:05:01 Radar-, ahh so you have to hack it to get all that.. just like john's doing for the n800 right ? :P Feb 06 07:05:02 heh Feb 06 07:05:21 to be fair it is a heck of a lot easier on an x86 machine with a normal BIOS Feb 06 07:05:23 :P Feb 06 07:05:25 Radar-, vista or xp? Feb 06 07:05:30 thats true Feb 06 07:05:30 OK Feb 06 07:05:46 naw, just format it annd install ubuntu or xp, no hacking needed Feb 06 07:06:20 right, but you need drivers Feb 06 07:06:24 I'm in the same situation Feb 06 07:06:32 I forget if it runs gOS or xandros by default Feb 06 07:06:36 a "debian install" is one command: debootstrap /media/mmc2 Feb 06 07:06:43 xandros i think Feb 06 07:06:51 i think on the one i saw Feb 06 07:07:05 gOS might be the OLPC one Feb 06 07:07:15 nah, gOS is the walmart one :) Feb 06 07:07:24 OLPC does their own thing Feb 06 07:07:34 yeah this one was meant to be xp-ish you could tell Feb 06 07:07:49 still cool dont get me wrong Feb 06 07:08:17 but everyone i've shown the n800 to was impressed.. the eeepc its like.. "why didnt you just buy a good laptop?" Feb 06 07:08:22 yeah, and probably a good match for a lot of people who just want to check their mail and play solitair and look at wikipedia Feb 06 07:08:44 well sheeit thats 99% of the computer market :P Feb 06 07:08:56 the people who I would recommend an eeePC to are my parents Feb 06 07:09:02 heh Feb 06 07:09:06 no viruses mom! Feb 06 07:09:40 no viruses, no dicking around with program compatibility since everything she needs is already there, etc, etc Feb 06 07:09:55 if I could make / read-only it would be even better Feb 06 07:10:03 yeah ive finally got a few friends on linux Feb 06 07:10:22 its always when they have ashitty computer that windows would suck the life out of though Feb 06 07:10:38 so its hard for them to love it rather than just be satisfied ya know Feb 06 07:10:49 same experience here, pretty much Feb 06 07:10:57 if they have money I tell them to buy a mac Feb 06 07:11:02 heh Feb 06 07:11:27 i like macs just dont like the cult Feb 06 07:11:42 it's just another Unix system to me Feb 06 07:11:59 for sure.. i just cant call myself a mac person Feb 06 07:11:59 but for standard users it's pretty low maintanence Feb 06 07:12:07 oh no doubt Feb 06 07:12:12 I had one for work at my last job Feb 06 07:12:36 10.4 Tiger was ok, and actually they fixed a lot of stuff that annoyed me in Leopard after I had left Feb 06 07:12:54 but some things still just bug the life out of me...like click to focus Feb 06 07:13:03 no option? Feb 06 07:13:26 nope Feb 06 07:13:47 thats the thing man.. with user-friendliness comes non-configurability Feb 06 07:13:50 maybe there was a hack somewhere... Feb 06 07:13:55 the big trade-off of every programmer Feb 06 07:13:56 it's true Feb 06 07:15:06 yessir Feb 06 07:15:17 if i ever get a mac i won't have bought it Feb 06 07:16:19 two things i hate, those intolerant of other peoples cultures, and the mexicans. Feb 06 07:16:25 hah Feb 06 07:16:31 im married to a mexican btw Feb 06 07:17:15 love jokes like that Feb 06 07:17:30 yeah, it made a great "work" laptop since it was good enough to let me be productive and not enticing enough to want to hack up :D Feb 06 07:18:11 yeah Feb 06 07:18:38 i got an old laptop from a brother in law.. trash to him.. throw some linux on.. good to go Feb 06 07:18:54 pentium 4 but that thing running xp was a paperweight Feb 06 07:18:59 Ii had an ibook, but after 3 logic board failures (3rd still not fixed) I replaced it with the n800 for the last 9 months Feb 06 07:19:01 that's what I have now actually Feb 06 07:19:20 (a P4 laptop, not an ibook) Feb 06 07:19:35 that thing weighs 10lbs even, I kid you not O_o Feb 06 07:19:39 heh Feb 06 07:19:45 i think this is around there Feb 06 07:19:53 probably 2 or 3 years old Feb 06 07:19:54 not sure Feb 06 07:20:12 Radar-, still got the ibook? Feb 06 07:20:20 yeah Feb 06 07:20:35 if i ever get a mac i won't have bought it Feb 06 07:20:38 what d'ya say? Feb 06 07:20:40 ;P Feb 06 07:20:46 if I put a shim on the gpu it'll probably fix it Feb 06 07:21:16 just never got around to it Feb 06 07:21:39 shim away Feb 06 07:21:49 and right apple a strongly worded letter Feb 06 07:21:53 write even Feb 06 07:22:17 geez three sierra nevadas and it all goes out the window doesnt it Feb 06 07:22:54 Radar-, you do alot of database programming in php? Feb 06 07:23:05 you said php,asp,perl i think Feb 06 07:23:27 yeah, with mysql and php mostly Feb 06 07:24:22 go buy a crap book or read a good tutorial on ruby on rails.. rails will create variables and methods for you as long as you follow naming conventions Feb 06 07:24:50 hard to explain.. but you wont be giving many if any SELECT statements at all Feb 06 07:24:57 bah, django is better ;) Feb 06 07:25:10 rails <3 Feb 06 07:25:17 maybe the django ate my baby? Feb 06 07:25:31 the only downside is that there's not that much hosting available Feb 06 07:25:41 what's with all these data-bases? who needs 'em when you have sh, sed and awk Feb 06 07:25:48 heh Feb 06 07:25:49 what and how would would be a correct way to load these nfs-modules on boot? http://maemo.org/community/wiki/settingupnfs/ Feb 06 07:25:51 plain text should be good enough for anyone! Feb 06 07:26:01 my code is embarrasing.. I'm practically italian with all the spaghetti I make Feb 06 07:26:33 Radar-, ruby will teach you (if you try) very good object oriented approaches Feb 06 07:26:54 yeeah right Feb 06 07:27:02 but then again I work in marketing so knowing any coding at all is a miracle Feb 06 07:27:18 jkyro, when my right hand wants to get off the keyboard and open up a firefox instance i'll look up your django.. until then.. Feb 06 07:27:24 oil_, insmod them from an init script? Feb 06 07:27:32 Radar-, indeed.. vb it is then :P Feb 06 07:27:34 http://www.djangoproject.com/ Feb 06 07:27:37 there Feb 06 07:27:57 johnx: ok. I'll make one. just wondering if there would have been an file to put these. .thnaks. Feb 06 07:28:19 jkyro, you know ruby? Feb 06 07:28:29 these days I mostly hack together asp/access scripts at work Feb 06 07:28:30 or just seen it used? Feb 06 07:28:31 oil_, module autoloading on ITOS is kind of ... not there Feb 06 07:29:08 jkyro, ahh.. python's answer to rails? Feb 06 07:29:31 i like pythons dbus implementation ;) Feb 06 07:29:42 truent: yes Feb 06 07:30:13 I don't know ruby that well, which is one of the reasons I'm using django Feb 06 07:30:58 I've tried rails though, didn't deliver for me Feb 06 07:31:02 see i dont know anything about python, just know its pretty much just the other side of the aisle as far as ruby goes Feb 06 07:31:13 basically, yes Feb 06 07:31:34 it was ruby or python to learn i chose ruby :P Feb 06 07:31:56 i'll check it out though Feb 06 07:31:59 Doesn't make much sense to learn a new language if I can use something I already know Feb 06 07:32:17 but, It never hurts to try Feb 06 07:32:20 johnx: I put it to nfs-common startscript Feb 06 07:32:32 same here of course, but im not a python/django hater like someone's coming off as ;P Feb 06 07:33:04 good stuff Feb 06 07:33:26 I don't particularly dislike ruby or rails either, just pointing out that there are alternatives :) Feb 06 07:33:30 i've always read that rails isnt perfect but its the best so far.. of course as web developers we'd all like to see it keep movin Feb 06 07:33:32 indeed Feb 06 07:33:41 brb Feb 06 08:26:19 i want to know the setting of usbnetworking , n800 <--- > winxp (os2008) Feb 06 08:26:23 please.... Feb 06 08:26:27 how? Feb 06 08:35:41 good morning Feb 06 08:37:00 morning Feb 06 08:41:51 hi there, I'd like to start a debugging session for mozilla in maemo. I added '--enable-debug' and '--enable-optimize="-O2 -g" but still with error. Does it mean that I cannot build my mozilla tree for debug purpose actually? Feb 06 08:43:58 hey, is the internet call screen supposed to start when the webcam pops out on the n800? My internet call screen no longer does this Feb 06 08:44:05 it used to Feb 06 08:44:19 EruditeHermit: there's an option for it Feb 06 08:44:27 solmumaha: where is the option? Feb 06 08:44:45 start it by hand and select preferences from the menu Feb 06 08:45:14 solmumaha: oh thank you Feb 06 08:45:23 np Feb 06 08:54:39 hello there Feb 06 09:03:50 Howdy Feb 06 09:05:40 * pupnik_ wants to bypass sdl and go to something like Xv(Shm)PutImage Feb 06 09:34:35 i want to know the setting of usbnetworking , n800 <--- > winxp (os200 Feb 06 09:38:32 K-Fox, ok, I'm not sure if this will work, but I'll try to help. Feb 06 09:39:08 1) open up the x-terminal and type "sudo gainroot" Feb 06 09:39:18 tell me if that works and I'll tell you the second step Feb 06 09:39:41 <_collin_> Tak: he did you get my mail? Feb 06 09:42:46 Morning, all Feb 06 09:43:04 ù Feb 06 09:43:08 morning Feb 06 09:45:13 <_collin_> he Feb 06 09:45:45 "he" ? Feb 06 09:50:31 <_collin_> he = hi Feb 06 09:52:03 * pupnik is totally thrashing Feb 06 09:53:52 Jaffa what is your recommendation for this: libSDL currently does not pass-on the FN key to games. jott has made a fixed libSDL that allows use of FN key. It is needed for dosbox. What should I do? Statically link in his libSDL to dosbox or wait x months for a new libSDL from nokia or what? Feb 06 09:57:42 pupnik: hmm, good question. Feb 06 09:57:53 collin ok :) Feb 06 09:57:57 Static linking's probably the best idea unless it's too big. Feb 06 09:58:00 ^pupnik: Feb 06 09:58:25 pupnik: I think static is the best idea for now. As getting that into libSDL on the device can take a while ;) Feb 06 09:58:32 oki. temp solution is fine with me, as i'll rebuild as soon as it's addressed officially Feb 06 09:58:57 pupnik: And I don't think you can upgrade libSDL by putting in into extras? Feb 06 09:59:24 No, you get that "Upgrading software from a different source" message, I think Feb 06 09:59:43 Yeah, which makes sense.. Feb 06 10:00:44 * johnx reads xomap source... Feb 06 10:02:13 jott, did you ever get buttons working in Debian? Feb 06 10:03:08 great. the joikuspot shares the edge-uplink with WLAN to n810 and n95 at the same time. Feb 06 10:07:32 morning Feb 06 10:07:38 mornin' Feb 06 10:07:54 what do you think about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2895 one? Feb 06 10:10:27 I doubt many bug fixes will go into the default mail client, given that it will probably be replaced with "modest" very soon... Feb 06 10:11:23 fwiw, the osso-email bugs are basically all WONTFIX. Feb 06 10:11:48 Yeah, modest is already soo much better ;) Feb 06 10:13:07 GeneralAntilles: cool. Feb 06 10:13:34 another great idea of N company. providing not supported apps by default Feb 06 10:14:06 hrw, it's being phased out for a better product. . . . Feb 06 10:14:08 hrw: Modest is also done with support from Nokia. Feb 06 10:14:22 Why the hell would they put time and effort into something that's just going to disappear? Feb 06 10:14:42 If you want to file useful bugs, install Modest and file against that. Feb 06 10:15:18 Modest even has weekly package updates and _changelog_ :) Feb 06 10:15:37 Complete with bug ids. Feb 06 10:16:03 X-Fade, Do you know much about Xomap? Feb 06 10:16:24 johnx: Nothing at all ;) Feb 06 10:16:45 ah well, worth a shot Feb 06 10:19:22 modest didn't work too well for me, it seems to drain the battery quite quickly Feb 06 10:19:54 And imo it should mark messages read, if they're read from somewhere else Feb 06 10:20:19 X-Fade: I know that modest is nokia paid Feb 06 10:20:56 inz: I don't experience battery drain with modest. Feb 06 10:21:17 but for me 'nokia paid' or 'nokia software' does not have to mean 'good' Feb 06 10:21:32 inz: it only checks once per 15 minutes on my device.. Feb 06 10:21:59 X-Fade, at least it seemed to be always running when I checked, taking quite a load of memory Feb 06 10:22:01 hrw: At least modest is BSD licensed and developed out in the open.. Feb 06 10:22:21 inz: Lot of memory leaks fixed lately.. Feb 06 10:23:07 X-Fade: the problem is that I do not use n810 for mail daily. just want to be able to look into inbox from time to time without being informed about each new mail Feb 06 10:23:17 webmail. Feb 06 10:23:40 GeneralAntilles: my webmail req 1024px at least and I do not like it Feb 06 10:24:01 hrw: Just disable new mail notification and use imap? Feb 06 10:24:10 Or that. Feb 06 10:25:07 for now I jsut removed account at all Feb 06 10:25:53 sleep kicked me out of bed., Feb 06 10:26:43 Modest is no longer Nokia-supported? Feb 06 10:26:58 fysa, what? Feb 06 10:27:04 oh, nevermind. ;) Feb 06 10:27:10 OMG, I'll spread the news! :P Feb 06 10:27:13 fysa lerns 2 reed Feb 06 10:27:22 (This is how rumors start) Feb 06 10:27:23 * fysa scrolls back more than 20 lines Feb 06 10:27:25 haha Feb 06 10:27:30 :) Feb 06 10:27:51 modest is dying, netcraft confirms Feb 06 10:27:56 hrw: Modest is also done with support from Nokia Feb 06 10:28:04 I thought that meant they were fed up. ;) Feb 06 10:28:14 aaah Feb 06 10:28:34 johnx: you have hildon booting in debian-armel?} Feb 06 10:28:40 yup Feb 06 10:28:45 and leafpad runs unmodified Feb 06 10:28:53 you tried other packages? Feb 06 10:28:57 not really Feb 06 10:29:00 modest webpage is not keyboard friendly Feb 06 10:29:01 or do we get dependency issues? Feb 06 10:29:09 There are lots more deps that need to be packaged Feb 06 10:29:33 are you using it as your 'main' interface now? Feb 06 10:29:39 debian-armel, that is. Feb 06 10:29:41 and there are already one group of people packaging maemo for debian, so I've switched back to working on hardware stuff Feb 06 10:29:49 fysa, heck now :) Feb 06 10:29:56 er...no Feb 06 10:30:04 it needs lots of work Feb 06 10:30:51 heh.. I feel tat it is time to create own repo with stuff missing in maemo ones.. Feb 06 10:31:02 why there is no strace package for example Feb 06 10:31:08 oh cool! I'll create some repos too :D Feb 06 10:31:46 hrw, http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ has the answers Feb 06 10:31:46 johnx: I do not plan to try to get own packages in maemo extras Feb 06 10:32:12 the maemo extras policy is in the process of changing... Feb 06 10:32:19 Everybody make a repo! Feb 06 10:32:38 Nokia-N810-50-2:~# wc /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Feb 06 10:32:39 OK, cool. I am actually going to have time to play with this stuff now.. big project at work launched so I've finally had time to catch up on things like finishing unpacking from three months ago. ;) Feb 06 10:32:45 41 168 2152 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Feb 06 10:32:45 As everybody knows more repos are always better! Feb 06 10:32:57 <_collin_> :) Feb 06 10:33:01 * _collin_ has one Feb 06 10:33:10 johnx: with 41 repos from gronmayer page I still lack strace Feb 06 10:33:16 fysa, there's no such thing as "finishing unpacking". ;) Feb 06 10:33:36 I spent a good two hours sorting the home office anyway, which is mostly what I'm in charge of ;) Feb 06 10:33:39 hrw: Isn't it in the sdk repository? Feb 06 10:33:39 Modest needs to add the most recent changes to the BOTTOM of the changelog file. Feb 06 10:34:08 there's just this peksy root canal in 5 hours. Feb 06 10:34:11 pesky. Feb 06 10:34:17 GeneralAntilles: Nah, that isn't how changelogs work ;) Feb 06 10:34:29 Yeah, I know. Feb 06 10:34:39 Nokia needs to fix Application Manager so it starts at the top. Feb 06 10:35:25 has Opera said anything about bringing Opera Mobile 9.5 to maemo/armel? Feb 06 10:35:46 opera mobile is the cell phone version, isn't it? Feb 06 10:35:52 fysa, why would they if N isn't paying anymore? Feb 06 10:36:15 http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/video-opera-mobile-9-5-redesign-is-lickity-quick-slick/ Feb 06 10:36:27 the rendering engine is very nice. Feb 06 10:36:45 hrw: bitbake built feed.... Feb 06 10:36:48 added 42 repository into list Feb 06 10:36:54 lardman: thats the plan Feb 06 10:36:59 good news Feb 06 10:37:32 * johnx will be back later Feb 06 10:37:46 lardman: I was always tired of 'you need XY repositories to install application' problem of maemo Feb 06 10:38:31 Then why do you want to go and make yet more repos? <_< Feb 06 10:39:17 does anyone have a maintained public repo? Feb 06 10:39:27 GeneralAntilles: sooner or later I will drop other ones Feb 06 10:39:29 that accepts submissions easily? Feb 06 10:39:44 hrw: feels like the very early Zaurus days still Feb 06 10:39:53 lardman: sharprom crap - yes. Feb 06 10:39:56 hrw: though it's nice to have the official repos Feb 06 10:39:59 maybe we need a site that lets you register, upload debs and vote up/down/review existing debs. Feb 06 10:40:00 lardman: or redhat 5/6 Feb 06 10:40:00 hrw: yep Feb 06 10:40:13 then each developer wouldn't need to setup their own. Feb 06 10:40:15 fysa: upload debs is wrong way Feb 06 10:40:25 fysa: upload sources and let autobuilder build them Feb 06 10:40:26 fysa: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-February/014409.html :) Feb 06 10:40:27 fysa: just use OpenEmbedded metadata with an autobuilder Feb 06 10:40:37 hrw: can you setup a feed/autobuilder? Feb 06 10:40:58 lardman: We have the sources for the auto-builder that Nokia uses.. Feb 06 10:41:12 lardman: would prefer to not doing it Feb 06 10:41:14 X-Fade: yes, but OpenEmbedded works(TM) Feb 06 10:41:18 X-Fade: excellent Feb 06 10:41:22 hrw: fair enough Feb 06 10:41:52 hrw: I don't have enough space, but for starters it would be good to setup a feed (non-autobuilt) to get people used to the idea Feb 06 10:41:55 so garage projects will be able to add themselves to a repo? Feb 06 10:42:05 lardman: I am connected with OpenedHand and would like to not spend too much time on maemo Feb 06 10:42:13 hrw: ah, I see Feb 06 10:42:18 lardman: Yeah, but how much do we need to change to use openembedded ;) Feb 06 10:42:34 fysa: if they submit a build recipe, then yes, they could be built from the source Feb 06 10:43:04 I see. Feb 06 10:43:35 and all deps will also get build automatically Feb 06 10:43:52 so no more 'you need package X from repo Y to install Z from my repo' Feb 06 10:43:53 fysa: First step will be easy upload of binary debs. But auto-building is the goal.. Feb 06 10:43:55 fysa: it's easy enough, lots of examples :) http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages Feb 06 10:44:06 X-Fade: I am against binary debs Feb 06 10:44:21 X-Fade: makes it difficult it you want to modify a package Feb 06 10:44:24 hrw: Everybody is ;) But you have to start somewhere.. Feb 06 10:44:26 X-Fade: you cant be sure that they are buildable Feb 06 10:44:36 hrw: And they are that way now.. Feb 06 10:45:55 Going to auto-building and stop support uploading binary packages can't be done in one day. We need to do it in a few steps. Feb 06 10:46:06 hrw: I got a strange error this morning when I went to use OE (I've moved to Ubuntu now). It said "Please install following missing utilities: C++ compiler (${BUILD_PREFIX}g++)" Feb 06 10:46:36 hrw: does it not like GCC 4.x.x? Feb 06 10:46:47 lardman: apt-get install build-essential? Feb 06 10:47:14 hrw: ah, I couldn't see a link to the RequiredPackages page Feb 06 10:48:43 must have been my fuzzy morning eyes Feb 06 10:49:39 or lack of coffe Feb 06 10:49:40 e Feb 06 10:49:52 hrw: yeah, only half way through first cup :) Feb 06 10:50:02 C0:FF:EE:C0:FF:EE is mac address of my AP Feb 06 10:50:11 jku: so what are your thoughts on the improvement or not produced by gpsd? Feb 06 10:50:14 hrw: nice :) Feb 06 10:51:06 lardman, I really don't know... on one hand I do believe the osso-gpsd maintainer Feb 06 10:51:38 on the other, I believe I saw a real improvement compared to my tests in January Feb 06 10:52:00 I have not yet tested with a clean system/osso-gpsd again Feb 06 10:52:23 jku: I've not tested either as it's too bloody cold to sit outside in the middle of a field :) Feb 06 10:53:31 the scientist in me is telling me I just saw placebo... but it would be really strange since in January I decided the GPS was unusable crap. Feb 06 10:54:42 jku: Well I had decided that, as I can't easily get a lock from my balcony window, but then nor can my iBlue these days Feb 06 10:55:04 jku: Then I drove to work (~2min) and had a lock by the time I arrived (with both) Feb 06 10:55:26 jku: not exactly scientific testing methodology :) Feb 06 10:56:01 jku: I didn't notice any difference when cold booting and fixing.. Feb 06 10:56:17 X-Fade, good to know. Feb 06 10:56:49 jku: I had fixes in range 1min-15 minutes. With both versions.. Feb 06 10:57:25 Random fix times is what I get ;) Feb 06 10:57:57 would support the placebo theory. Man, that bruises my ego Feb 06 10:58:32 I've always considered myself analytical, and not easily fooled by statistical anomalies Feb 06 10:58:39 jku: Well, it looked promising at least. But... Feb 06 10:59:48 I'll test a bit more (tomorrow maybe), decide then Feb 06 11:01:02 <|tbb|> morning Feb 06 11:03:18 Is the 'unlock device' dialog larger on OS2008? On my OS2007 N800, the numbers are really tiny buttons - which seems crazy for a touchscreen. Feb 06 11:04:44 <|tbb|> lardman, i use the original gpsd not the patched one, i was staying one hour in a house gps was shutdown after i go out put gps on and a fix was nearly under 30 seconds, i only need longer fixes if the gps is shutdown longer 3hours or so, so i belive test how fast it locks or not could only be reliable if the gps is off a "longer" time Feb 06 11:05:42 |tbb|, that's right. Or at least the warm fixes are not that interesting Feb 06 11:06:08 (as long as they're <1min) Feb 06 11:07:23 the problem I had in Jan was that very often I just couldn't get a fix -- stood over 10 minutes in the middle of a park several times Feb 06 11:07:53 <|tbb|> jku, 1 hour means warm fix??? Feb 06 11:08:28 no idea really... Feb 06 11:08:30 <|tbb|> lardman: my chief got a n95 and he says, the fix would be much faster if he conntect his n95 to a service from nokia which tell them where the sattelites positions are, is there something possible to do that with n8x00 Feb 06 11:08:53 |tbb|, yeah, should be Feb 06 11:09:19 <|tbb|> jku your confusing me Feb 06 11:10:01 Heh;) No idea about what is a warm fix for the gps. but assisted GPS should be possible Feb 06 11:10:04 |tbb|: I have a N95 and fix times were as bad as N810 before they added AGPS. Feb 06 11:10:20 johnx: yes, buttons work after I restart dbus and hal (and having the os2008 xkb dbus handlers copied) Feb 06 11:10:24 |tbb|: People were really complaining about N95 gps before.. Feb 06 11:10:48 <|tbb|> is that agps same as i talk, getting positions of the sattelite via internet? Feb 06 11:10:52 |tbb|: 6 min is warm fix Feb 06 11:11:02 |tbb|: I think that's how long the ephemeris data are valid Feb 06 11:12:01 <|tbb|> lardman: that means sometimes you get a fast fix even when a hour gps was shutdown? Feb 06 11:12:04 |tbb|: pretty much yes, the assistance is computed by modelling the satellite orbits Feb 06 11:12:57 |tbb|: you shouldn't really, unless there are few ephemeris corrections needed; though with that said even a cold fix with known almanac & position shouldn't take too long really. 18s or so to download the ephemeris data I remember seeing Feb 06 11:13:22 download from the satellites that is Feb 06 11:16:25 |tbb|, I checked: old satellite ephemeris data can be useful for several hours... Feb 06 11:19:15 the same source says ephemeris data download takes about 30 secs, but lousy receivers may take a lot longer because you need to start over if there's a problem... Feb 06 11:19:23 <|tbb|> could we manuelly get the sattelites position data and use it with n8x0 in any way Feb 06 11:19:23 morning Feb 06 11:19:38 <|tbb|> btw through internet Feb 06 11:19:42 |tbb|: that's the whole idea, if we can work out the format of nvd_data Feb 06 11:20:01 |tbb|, sure, from the web. The problem is the format the driver uses as lardman said Feb 06 11:20:05 |tbb|: e.g. supl.nokia.com supplies such data for the N95 Feb 06 11:21:03 * |tbb| wonders, when nokia knows about that problem (n95 n810 has same gps-chip) why the f*ck they dont support us Feb 06 11:21:22 perhaps they will..... Feb 06 11:21:47 * |tbb| take his wondering back Feb 06 11:22:54 the N95 didn't have assistance when it was first released Feb 06 11:24:42 http://pastebin.ca/893702 argh Feb 06 11:24:48 N95 has the added problem that the antenna for GPS is located under the keypad. Which is not optimal :) Feb 06 11:25:18 hrw: hmm, interesting Feb 06 11:25:35 hrw: I'm sure you are now using a SDK version on the device? Feb 06 11:26:04 X-Fade: no - its os2007.50.2 (aka os2008) Feb 06 11:26:24 hrw: Yeah, but procps from the sdk repo.. Feb 06 11:26:30 X-Fade: yes Feb 06 11:26:53 That is only for the developer rootfs. Not the customer one.. Feb 06 11:26:54 X-Fade: my OE built one also does not install as busybox is borken when it comes to alternatives Feb 06 11:27:17 X-Fade: I am developer who use customer rootfs Feb 06 11:28:33 hrw: Then don't use the SDK repo ;) Feb 06 11:28:48 X-Fade: problem appear also when I use own procps Feb 06 11:29:00 busybox provides/conflicts procps Feb 06 11:29:14 and it should not do it but use update-alternatives instead Feb 06 11:29:17 Yeah, replacing busybox does that ;) Feb 06 11:29:42 ehm, replacing funcionality that is present in busybox.. Feb 06 11:29:52 Had that happen to me for insmod once :) Feb 06 11:29:57 replacing busybox parts with full versions Feb 06 11:30:16 X-Fade: OE busybox package allow to replace parts without problems Feb 06 11:30:24 but thats OE not maemo one Feb 06 11:30:36 hrw: You are preaching to the choir ;) Feb 06 11:31:15 I would like a proper shell, instead of busybox too. Same problem.. Feb 06 11:31:27 X-Fade: install bash then Feb 06 11:32:40 hi someone make a dsp-based /dev/sequencer MIDI player kthxbai :P Feb 06 11:33:53 hrmz.. people replying to Digest mail on mailinglists.. Feb 06 11:34:13 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2896 Feb 06 11:35:08 hrw: Thanks for posting that bug.. Feb 06 11:35:20 X-Fade: vote then Feb 06 11:35:20 pupnik: is that a command? Feb 06 11:35:42 or has someone already done that? Feb 06 11:36:10 :) no, just dreaming lardman. Feb 06 11:36:21 timidity taking 50% cpu on my athlon2800xp right now btw Feb 06 11:36:33 well avg around 32% Feb 06 11:37:19 i made a cpu-load reduced timidity tweak btw. Feb 06 11:39:06 btw lardman, .mid files range from ~2 to ~88kB here. Fire-and-forget. Feb 06 11:40:45 pupnik: remind me in April, I may have some time then ;) Feb 06 11:40:52 hm wouldn't be fm synthesis enough? or do you really want full wavetable support? ;) Feb 06 11:42:28 yes an alternative would be adlib on dsp Feb 06 11:43:22 exposed as alsa /dev/sequencer for general purpose programs, or compiled/linked-in to games that want to control adlib directly Feb 06 11:48:36 hrw: i wonder if dpkg-divert would help there Feb 06 11:49:27 lcdd: it would be workaround Feb 06 11:49:35 lcdd: busybox package is broken Feb 06 11:51:36 with big '.... you nokia for l10n support': http://blog.haerwu.biz/2008/02/06/polish-locale-for-os2008/ Feb 06 12:10:22 pupnik, what are the things you did to make timidity lighter on CPU usage? Feb 06 12:12:54 <|tbb|> anyone useing n770 with os2007? Feb 06 12:13:32 |tbb|: i installed again gregale, it works much better now Feb 06 12:14:33 <|tbb|> hmmh :( Feb 06 12:15:47 johnx: i deleted the timidity tree sorry. mostly config options Feb 06 12:15:54 ah, ok Feb 06 12:16:09 did you try it on the tablet? Feb 06 12:17:53 |tbb|: it's faster, more stable and the touchscreen works better Feb 06 12:18:43 |tbb|: i have 770he, why? Feb 06 12:21:48 http://michaels770.blogspot.com/2006/03/midi-on-nokia770-with-timidity-while_12.html johnx Feb 06 12:22:11 ah, thanks :D Feb 06 12:27:31 <|tbb|> solmumaha: could u try to setup an alarm (daily) and reboot the device and tell me if the alarm still remains? Feb 06 12:28:53 what is the default mail application on the n810? Feb 06 12:29:30 <|tbb|> giskard: outlook 98 Feb 06 12:29:48 <|tbb|> err it is stable like outlook 98 Feb 06 12:29:51 <|tbb|> ;) Feb 06 12:31:25 uhm, if i "dpkg -l | grep mail" i can't find it, but i don't have removed it, and i still have the Email icon in the menu Feb 06 12:31:36 god, python on the tablet is like stuffing an athlete with pure lard Feb 06 12:32:58 I don't even know if it really has a name Feb 06 12:34:55 ok Feb 06 12:35:20 most of the packages that have "osso" and "email" in the name are at least part of the email program... Feb 06 12:36:13 osso-email is it. Feb 06 12:36:29 Soon to be replaced by Modest. Feb 06 12:37:05 (and none too soon!) Feb 06 12:37:52 soon as os2009 Feb 06 12:38:09 eh, the beta works just fine for me now Feb 06 12:38:21 all I'm waiting for is to launch it from the contacts button... Feb 06 12:38:35 btw - who is maemo bugzilla admin? Feb 06 12:38:36 ehrr why if i run dpkg -l | grep blablaba by the normal user i don't get results? Feb 06 12:39:14 but if i do dpkg -l works.. Feb 06 12:39:34 even with sudo gainroot before i cant `pipe` it Feb 06 12:40:03 johnx, you could try playing with the .desktop Feb 06 12:40:06 but no guarantees. Feb 06 12:40:15 eh, I don't quite care enough Feb 06 12:40:38 I hack around in Debian and for now I'd like to be able to come back to OS2008 and have it "Just work" (tm) Feb 06 12:41:00 Haha Feb 06 12:41:24 Works fine here, giskard. Feb 06 12:41:31 giskard, dpkg -l gives the same output as user and root for me Feb 06 12:41:52 GeneralAntilles, via ssh it works Feb 06 12:41:53 * Jaffa finds Modest a bit of a memory hog, a battery drainer and not a particularly friendly piece of software to the rest of maemo Feb 06 12:42:00 hrw: ferenc Feb 06 12:42:35 Works fine on the device, too. Feb 06 12:42:43 Jaffa: @maemo.org? Feb 06 12:43:12 Jaffa, I agree that it's not an incredible, powerful, slim mail client...but it has a thick scroll bar and it doesn't choke on my gmail imap account or randomly delete mail Feb 06 12:43:18 thx Jaffa Feb 06 12:43:22 practically everything else is just gravy to me... Feb 06 12:43:31 and, more importantly, it's still beta. Feb 06 12:44:25 aargh, I just discovered a day's worth of email which Outlook hasn't bothered to send Feb 06 12:44:31 ~lart Microsoft for being rubbish Feb 06 12:44:32 * infobot takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking Microsoft's head off for being rubbish Feb 06 12:45:11 |tbb|: remind me later, i'm at work atm Feb 06 12:48:54 <|tbb|> solmumaha: ok, plz remind me later then that remind you Feb 06 12:51:31 |tbb|: will do Feb 06 12:57:24 GeneralAntilles: indeed, which is why I've raised bugs. Feb 06 13:14:13 tips on porting and getting from x window to hildon window? Already using gdk_window_foreign_new() but my x/gdk/gtk/hildon-fu is almost non-existent :-) Feb 06 13:14:39 matmo, have you seen the hildonization guide on maemo.org? Feb 06 13:14:46 that's about all I can offer right now... Feb 06 13:15:29 yep, no help (at least to me). I saw the monkey bubbles thing but the app I am porting (Squeak) only uses X Feb 06 13:15:41 ah Feb 06 13:16:36 I thought there may be something similar to gdk_window_foreign_new() to get to hildon window. Feb 06 13:21:05 I thought somebody (maddler?) already ported squeak Feb 06 13:21:46 Tak: when, recently? Feb 06 13:23:33 hmm, I'm thinking at least a few months ago Feb 06 13:24:38 afaik some have recompiled but none are what I would say ¨integrated¨ Feb 06 13:29:45 I seem to recall whoever it was putting quite a bit of effort into it Feb 06 13:30:08 maddler: was that you? Feb 06 13:48:24 no... it wasn't :) Feb 06 13:48:38 (me) Feb 06 13:50:01 well hell Feb 06 13:50:57 :) Feb 06 13:51:27 damn... registering/mantaining a .it domain is always pita! Feb 06 13:51:42 beaurocracy kills! Feb 06 13:52:14 faxes... notifications... verifications... Feb 06 13:52:23 it took 4 days to complete.. Feb 06 13:52:28 jeez Feb 06 13:52:32 faxes? Feb 06 13:52:42 johnx: yeah! Feb 06 13:52:45 to get an *internet* domain name? Feb 06 13:52:51 lol, that's what I was thinking Feb 06 13:52:51 right... Feb 06 13:53:22 you have to fax a letter... where you say who you are and assume responsability for that domain... Feb 06 13:53:38 Haha Feb 06 13:53:44 Screw statists. Feb 06 13:53:59 then someone will check received faxes against a list of domains awaiting for registration... Feb 06 13:54:09 "We have faxed your password to 44-23-5584. To complete registration, you must fax your username and the correct password to 43-22-9873." Feb 06 13:54:28 then they will check if your DNS config is ok... Feb 06 13:54:36 and then the domain will be activated... Feb 06 13:55:02 BUT using NDS of the ISP you bought the domain from... Feb 06 13:55:12 then you change them to your very own DNS... Feb 06 13:55:17 then they check once more... Feb 06 13:55:27 and THEN you have the domain working! Feb 06 13:55:29 perhaps... Feb 06 13:55:32 Personally, I find the whole idea incredibly disturbing. Feb 06 13:55:38 if all the steps went fine! Feb 06 13:55:42 GeneralAntilles: IT IS! Feb 06 13:56:02 cosidering I can have a .com/.net/.org domain working in about 3 minutes! Feb 06 13:56:23 oh.. they won't d anything during weekends and various holdays... of course... Feb 06 13:56:42 maddler, welcome to the future! Feb 06 13:56:48 so avoid sending faxes during holydais or right after... Feb 06 13:56:59 nic.it sucks! Feb 06 13:57:17 btw... I now own alphageek.it domain :D Feb 06 13:58:00 that is cool however Feb 06 13:58:32 I guess one good thing is that it's harder for domain campers/spammers/advertising portals, to register a .it Feb 06 13:59:03 enlarge.it Feb 06 13:59:12 plus it just makes you that much cooler to have one Feb 06 13:59:26 I want a Cook Islands domain Feb 06 13:59:39 jumpula, I stand corrected... Feb 06 13:59:59 maybe they the other spammy .it's just don't rank as high in google for me... Feb 06 14:00:33 such a domain exists? :) Feb 06 14:00:35 maddler: don't define a catchall mail for it. I had an .it domain once and it received italian spam almost instantly. Feb 06 14:06:19 Okko: I've got a specific mail account for that... :) Feb 06 14:20:49 http://zeptar.freeshell.org/images/newnokiatablet.jpg Feb 06 14:21:08 Haha Feb 06 14:21:11 I saw that en engadget Feb 06 14:21:21 I like the new matchbox look. Feb 06 14:21:31 The image is my tablet's screenshot :) Feb 06 14:21:40 The guy that did it just pasted that link to me ^_^ Feb 06 14:21:47 lol Feb 06 14:23:22 It's so ridiculously oversized. Feb 06 14:24:11 You need to hire a team of immigrant laborer's to take turns wearing it as a backpack and squatting down in front of you. Feb 06 14:25:13 actually, you could get by with a maybe a back brace and a sturdy guitar strap Feb 06 14:25:29 maybe a sling that holds one arm in place Feb 06 14:25:33 Have a pivot attached to your utility belt? Feb 06 14:25:39 Strap goes around your neck. Feb 06 14:25:40 hmm...his stylus needs to be bigger Feb 06 14:26:03 * Tak forward some spam emails Feb 06 14:26:13 * GeneralAntilles just got an awesome idea for a personal TV-tray. Feb 06 14:26:37 GeneralAntilles, please say you're thinking of an old-school CRT TV :D Feb 06 14:26:59 Haha Feb 06 14:27:03 No, just a wooden table Feb 06 14:27:11 one end attaches to a belt Feb 06 14:27:17 the other has a strap that goes around your neck Feb 06 14:27:20 you can walk around with it. Feb 06 14:27:51 bah Feb 06 14:27:54 that's no fun Feb 06 14:28:20 how about something cool like this: http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/04/the-hip-office-keeps-you-single-working/ Feb 06 14:28:23 Yes, but it might be marketable. :P Feb 06 14:28:34 Haha Feb 06 14:30:09 omg :D Feb 06 14:32:01 Package must have "Section: user/FOO" to be considered compatible. Feb 06 14:32:03 ARGHHH Feb 06 14:32:46 hrw, welcome to maemo. Aren't you glad you joined us? :D Feb 06 14:32:49 anyways Feb 06 14:32:57 * johnx needs to catch some sleep Feb 06 14:32:59 'night all Feb 06 14:33:03 johnx: sweet dreams Feb 06 14:33:08 thanks Feb 06 14:33:17 hrw read the porting / packaging guidelines on maemo.org Feb 06 14:35:06 pupnik: will have to Feb 06 14:35:12 johnx: Don't fall asleep! The clowns will eat you! Feb 06 14:35:33 they will find me a most discomforting flavour I'm afraid... Feb 06 14:35:36 pupnik: maemo appmanager is just insane ;) Feb 06 14:36:08 anyone got a sec to look at some short, bad, client-server test code? my g_io_channel_write_chars version no work. Feb 06 14:36:13 http://pastebin.ca/893821 Feb 06 14:36:31 I assume I'm missing something basic here... Feb 06 14:40:55 coffee88: try g_io_channel_flush() ‽ Feb 06 14:41:04 (after writing) Feb 06 14:43:37 Tak: wa-hey! that was it! why the server closed the connection anyway without it, I'm not sure... Feb 06 14:44:04 Tak++ Feb 06 14:44:04 * coffee88 gives Tak a sweetie. Feb 06 14:44:36 I don't think my current sweetie would be very happy about that... Feb 06 14:44:56 heh Feb 06 14:45:16 apt-cache search sweetie Feb 06 14:47:23 pupnik: does virtual keyboard work with fullscreen sdl apps? Feb 06 14:47:37 no Feb 06 14:47:53 damn Feb 06 14:48:00 makes it useless then Feb 06 14:48:06 Tak: I assume if I have a listening callback on a socket, I can still just write to it whenever I want? for full bi-directional comms? Feb 06 14:48:38 I have little experience with giochannel; your guess is as good as mine Feb 06 14:49:16 mine haven't been very good to date! I guess I'll just have to try it and see. Feb 06 14:51:34 it would seem to make little sense to allow callbacks if they couldn't interact with the channel ;-) Feb 06 14:52:25 that's what I figured. and the channel seems like it should be two way, if non blocking in the app... Feb 06 14:54:28 jott: around? Feb 06 14:55:34 pupnik: yes Feb 06 14:56:27 ah nm i broke exult build again Feb 06 14:58:29 have you heard back about the SDL N810 keyboard problem? Feb 06 14:58:48 which one? :) Feb 06 14:59:07 the lack of Fn key support - your patch for dosbox Feb 06 14:59:27 i haven't found any problems with it Feb 06 14:59:33 *patch for libSDL Feb 06 14:59:57 ah.. no.. have to do that.. Feb 06 15:06:49 one thing about running in the vmware client is big builds seem to run a bit slower Feb 06 15:07:31 of course stuff runs slower in a virtual machine... Feb 06 15:08:14 pupnik: i wonder if we could find a proper upstream solution.. Feb 06 15:08:49 443172 Sep 17 07:05 /usr/lib/libSDL.a that's a lot to link-in statically :| Feb 06 15:11:08 Xen, KVM .. Feb 06 15:11:21 I use KVM for maemo development, it even has support for multiple cores. Feb 06 15:11:37 well another option would be to provide libsdl 1.2.13 and overwrite the base system one ;) Feb 06 15:12:20 yeah ssvb and others were talking about hacker-libSDL's on maemo-developers last year Feb 06 15:12:37 for e.g. a 400x240 sdl window could implement double-buffering Feb 06 15:12:39 this would also allow to integrate pixeldoubling. Feb 06 15:12:55 some nice tweaks here and there Feb 06 15:15:50 would also allow adding a generic sdl_onscreen_keyboard class Feb 06 15:16:23 hm well i suppose that should be in an extra lib like SDL_vkb or so Feb 06 15:16:27 I might implement one using valagame, should I get around to it Feb 06 15:16:28 (as sdl_ttf etc) Feb 06 15:16:33 oh yeah true Feb 06 15:16:58 would be nice project though... Feb 06 15:17:03 since nobody wants to use rubygame :-P Feb 06 15:17:07 as so many sdl programs reimplemnt this Feb 06 15:21:01 if SDL app requests a fullscreen surface, then how would the virtual keyboard be 'above' it, in a generic way.. Feb 06 15:21:58 you can just pass a surface for it to blit onto Feb 06 15:22:21 it doesn't care if it's the base video surface, or a toplevel game surface, etc Feb 06 15:22:44 the keyboard has to be implemented in the sdl application code anyway Feb 06 15:22:50 integrated Feb 06 15:23:00 it can just be used like a library Feb 06 15:23:16 SDL_showKeyboard(mySurface); Feb 06 15:23:56 or, more likely, SDL_showKeyboard(mySurface, myKBClosedCallback); Feb 06 15:24:35 * Tak has already spent a lot of time thinking about this problem Feb 06 15:24:49 or SDL_showKeyboard(vkb_id, mySurface); :) Feb 06 15:25:19 Tak: well then give use code after a brain-dump ;> Feb 06 15:25:31 I already have code Feb 06 15:26:13 probably vkb_id will be an argument to SDL_initKeyboard() ;-) Feb 06 15:27:23 http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rgkb10os9.png Feb 06 15:28:04 cool Feb 06 15:28:07 ah mockup or really working? ;) Feb 06 15:28:27 working Feb 06 15:28:31 nice Feb 06 15:28:49 however, it's in ruby Feb 06 15:29:38 however, I may recreate in vala, which would give a nice, gobject-based api to use from C Feb 06 15:30:19 gobject dependency would be bad :( Feb 06 15:31:25 * b0r0las saluda en español... Feb 06 15:32:00 * b0r0las pregunta: alguien que hable español? Feb 06 15:32:29 yo hablo un poquito, pero no muy bien Feb 06 15:32:50 jott: worse than a ruby dependency? ;-) Feb 06 15:33:00 not a big difference actually ;) Feb 06 15:33:04 * Tak shrugs Feb 06 15:33:10 Tak, gracias... pregunta sencilla: existe un listado de los paquetes .deb que se puedan instalar en un n800? Feb 06 15:33:26 b0r0las: http://downloads.maemo.org Feb 06 15:33:35 Tak that picture gave me an evil idea Feb 06 15:33:58 For the non-ITTers: http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/02/06/q-a/ Feb 06 15:34:01 b0r0las: hay tambien muchos informaciones @ http://www.internettablettalk.com Feb 06 15:36:55 GeneralAntilles: I'd hope that everyone here regularly kept up with p.m.o Feb 06 15:37:04 * Tak doesn't Feb 06 15:37:39 b0r0las, http://www.gronmayer.com/it tambien. Feb 06 15:38:02 c/ Feb 06 15:42:19 where can I upload my SSH key to garage.maemo.org? Feb 06 15:42:54 or: is there ssh access for garage.maemo.org SVN? Feb 06 15:46:24 GeneralAntilles, muchas gracias... es un excelente listado... veo que se puede instalar hasta postgresql :) Feb 06 15:52:12 Hmmm. any idea why a g_io_add_watch callback with g_io_channel_read_line on it would seem to fire continually?! Feb 06 15:57:19 what condition are you watching for? Feb 06 15:57:44 iowatch = g_io_add_watch(netchan, G_IO_IN, io_callback, NULL); Feb 06 15:58:31 is there continually data to be read? Feb 06 15:59:13 is your callback returning FALSE ‽ Feb 06 15:59:29 nope. shouldn't be. server sends manual input line, and msg in callback seems to read back as NULL. calback returns true... Feb 06 16:00:09 DOH! may have spotted something... hold on. Feb 06 16:00:32 no. I haven't. Feb 06 16:01:55 callback is at http://www.pastebin.ca/893951 Feb 06 16:03:31 hmm - try flushing when you hit end-of-input? Feb 06 16:04:18 Hmmmm. I'm starting to wonder if it's anything to do with buffers, or lack of them... Feb 06 16:04:28 * coffee88 goes to do more research... Feb 06 16:05:48 Internet traffic report. What's going on here? http://www.internettrafficreport.com/asia.htm Feb 06 16:06:06 pupnik: duno... but network is damn slow here (.it) as well... Feb 06 16:07:06 pupnik: india lost quite a few sea-cables this week/last week. could it be related? Feb 06 16:07:38 ah.. you mean iran? Feb 06 16:08:19 Iran is gone. Feb 06 16:08:43 huge emp distroyed it Feb 06 16:09:08 Iran was expected to open its oil bourse this week to compete with London and NY. It was expected to trade oil for currencies other than US dollars. Feb 06 16:10:49 currency should not matter.. but maybe that they would not sell the oil to some countries Feb 06 16:15:51 Iran is not gone. Feb 06 16:15:53 http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=444028&cid=22321066 Feb 06 16:16:17 but florida is gone: http://www.internettrafficreport.com/history/111.htm *scnr* Feb 06 16:16:47 I can personally attest to the falsity of THAT particular claim. Feb 06 16:16:54 ;) Feb 06 16:17:46 ditto Feb 06 16:18:03 internettrafficreport.com is a *very* coarse approximation to the net topology.. Feb 06 16:20:41 Yeah, according to that site Germany is out as well.. Feb 06 16:20:52 Ping! Can anyone read this? ;) Feb 06 16:20:59 pong Feb 06 16:22:42 damn. not a buffer issue by the look of it. Feb 06 16:33:59 ~lart mobile phone service provider companies Feb 06 16:34:00 * infobot whips mobile phone service provider companies with a wet and grimy noodle just because Feb 06 16:34:23 hey! those are /my/ grimy noodles! Feb 06 16:36:16 member function `void SoundTester::test_sound()': Feb 06 16:36:16 soundtest.cc:44: error: cannot convert `Font*' to `_XFont_*' in initialization Feb 06 16:36:29 * pupnik bangs head on desk Feb 06 16:37:40 and i can't get a simple #undef Font to apply ... or maybe the scope of it is the problem Feb 06 16:42:12 Tak: your noodles because you work for one or because you have the same problems? Feb 06 16:43:34 I just like grimy noodles Feb 06 16:43:41 all good :) Feb 06 16:44:09 hrw: after my singing the praises of OE, it seems to fail on fontconfig, though it's a problem with the maemo repo Feb 06 16:44:49 hrw: I thought I might write a maemo specific HowTo get started in the same vein as those old Zaurus ones Feb 06 16:46:36 lardman: still building octave? Feb 06 16:47:20 * jott would be interested in an optimized octave build too :) Feb 06 16:51:18 ./shapeid.h:30: error: conflicting declaration 'struct Font' Feb 06 16:51:18 /usr/include/X11/X.h:105: error: 'Font' has a previous declaration as `typedef XID Font' Feb 06 16:51:22 but... Feb 06 16:51:29 #undef Font Feb 06 16:51:29 class Font; Feb 06 16:51:45 why doesn't #undef Font prevent that error Feb 06 16:52:54 pupnik: is this c++ code? Feb 06 16:52:59 yeah Feb 06 16:53:09 why not use namespacing to avoid the issue? Feb 06 16:53:12 i just added Xsp to exult and the X11 include broke it Feb 06 16:53:34 #include that breaks it Feb 06 16:53:44 but Xlib.h is required for Xsp i think Feb 06 16:54:24 Font is a type, probably cant be #undef Feb 06 16:55:12 hi zodttd :) Feb 06 16:55:30 hi :) Feb 06 16:55:36 I snuck in here :P Feb 06 16:56:39 i'm trying to quickly 'finish' up things i started last year so i can move on Feb 06 16:56:39 Try this Feb 06 16:57:47 crappy workaround but should work... Feb 06 16:58:02 You can typedef before the X11 include: typedef NewFontType Font; Feb 06 16:58:13 And #define Font NewFontType Feb 06 16:58:14 :P Feb 06 16:58:40 Much better ways of going about this though, as Tak implied Feb 06 16:58:47 jott: Octave is built Feb 06 16:58:53 lardman: ah nice Feb 06 16:59:02 aw crap. my test packages for osso-gpsd had version 1.0-25-jku0. That actually prevents "apt-get upgrade" as osso-software-version depends on a specific version Feb 06 16:59:04 I'll put it up somewhere tonight when I get home Feb 06 16:59:19 Ah crap, mention of Zaurus...I need to update some stuff on it. Feb 06 16:59:43 zodttd: I'd be suprised if my batteries work anymore Feb 06 16:59:46 pupnik: you could also put the xsd code in an extra cpp/h file to avoid any conflicts.. Feb 06 16:59:51 so if enayone did install osso-gpsd 1.0-25-jku0, please install the original version from http://folks.o-hand.com/jku/osso-gpsd/ Feb 06 17:00:02 jku: why's that? Feb 06 17:00:04 lardman: I think my C1000 is working fine still Feb 06 17:00:37 lardman: osso-software-version depends on a specific osso-gpsd version Feb 06 17:00:49 zodttd: did you do the ps1 emu? Feb 06 17:00:50 anything else will make apt complain Feb 06 17:00:58 jku: ah yes, I saw that Feb 06 17:01:19 http://zodttd.com/wp/ Feb 06 17:02:17 Yes :) Feb 06 17:02:26 how do I get apt to tell me the version again? Feb 06 17:02:37 jku: Cool. Good work with those, btw. Feb 06 17:02:44 zodttd: working on a version for the ITs? Feb 06 17:02:52 lardman: ITs? Feb 06 17:02:53 jku: tho seeing yet another gpsd clone made me kind of sad :P Feb 06 17:02:58 Internet Tablets? Feb 06 17:03:03 yep Feb 06 17:03:09 Ah, look towards pupnik ;P Feb 06 17:03:22 what I need is a Nintendo DS emu Feb 06 17:03:31 so I can play bomberman vs my gf Feb 06 17:03:34 lardman: That would work well on the Zaurus :P Feb 06 17:03:38 thanks for the tips Feb 06 17:03:54 I think pupnik compiled desmume Feb 06 17:04:14 what, isn't pcsx fast enough for you? Feb 06 17:04:23 * zodttd ducks Feb 06 17:04:45 lardman: Doubt it would work, the wifi drivers won't let you do the packet injection you need, even if the emu does passthrough Feb 06 17:04:47 anyone know how to cast/make a gdk window into a gtk window? Feb 06 17:04:54 dragorn, clone? do you mean gypsy or what? Feb 06 17:04:59 jku: yeah Feb 06 17:05:10 jku: not that gpsd doesn't have it's issues Feb 06 17:05:21 you can say that again Feb 06 17:05:28 jku: but yet another api makes me kinda sad. Especially one that requires dbus/glib. Feb 06 17:07:17 dragorn: well, I'll take thos instead of tcp/ip sockets any day Feb 06 17:07:31 sucks that xsp has to be enabled *before* sdl_init Feb 06 17:07:43 jku: Makes it a total pain in the ass for anyone with a codebase that isn't glib, however. Feb 06 17:08:02 how so? Feb 06 17:08:42 someday i'll just discard the sdl-surface, create a fullscreen x window and use mplayer's framebuffer code Feb 06 17:09:08 jku: The glib/dbus bindings tend to like to control the main loop. That's not an option, and I'm not rewriting 40,000 lines of code for it :P Feb 06 17:09:28 Yeah, I guess that's true Feb 06 17:10:12 really , i want to know setting of usb networking . n800 <---> winxp (os2008) Feb 06 17:10:17 how? Feb 06 17:10:38 jku: but believe me, I deeply appreciate how annoying gpsd is Feb 06 17:10:51 ;) Feb 06 17:10:53 jku: about every 6 months I butt heads with them over it Feb 06 17:11:11 jku: ESR is pissed at me that I added direct serial gps control into my dev code Feb 06 17:11:30 hah! Feb 06 17:11:44 or at least, annoyed. But he often seems annoyed. Feb 06 17:11:49 you work on kismet, right? Feb 06 17:11:50 WinXP needs a reboot, bbiam Feb 06 17:11:54 yeah Feb 06 17:12:19 uuuu.... Feb 06 17:12:37 working on adding mouse support to the new UI right now, actually. Still curses, but will have tap support for most of the interface. Feb 06 17:33:03 -quit Feb 06 17:33:04 ops Feb 06 17:33:06 bye Feb 06 17:34:28 does anyone have some experiences with aircrack on n800? Feb 06 17:35:20 yes. don't bother. Feb 06 17:35:54 The only method which has a chance of being doable on an embedded device requires injection capability, which you don't have. Feb 06 17:37:13 hmkey Feb 06 17:38:49 and which you will not get as tablets wifi is totally closed Feb 06 17:40:52 unless you really get excited at the idea of running a brute force attack that would keep a high-end cluster busy for some time, on a handheld. Then by all means knock yourself out. :P Feb 06 17:40:58 What's the deal with that, I thought someone was working on an open version? Feb 06 17:41:14 or if you've got another method of generating injected frames, in which case, why are you trying to do the heavy lifting on a handheld, still. Feb 06 17:41:38 or unless you compiled USB drivers for a NIC with proper support and kicked the device into host mode, i suppose Feb 06 17:42:10 lardman: not that I know of. A long long long time ago I saw something where someone got a prism54 driver hacked into working on the 770, but it's been dead since then and I haven't seen anyone pick it up Feb 06 17:42:32 ah, and it's a different chipset on the N8x0 anyway isn't it? Feb 06 17:42:55 i'm not sure. I don't think it's significantly different, the nokia drivers have the same name Feb 06 17:43:06 oh right Feb 06 17:43:39 but being generally really busy, and not wanting to nuke my device, I haven't looked into trying to put a .23/.24 kernel on it with the mac80211 prism54 softmac drivers Feb 06 17:43:42 I don't know what they'd do Feb 06 17:43:58 (probably nothing, since they probably don't have a connection to whatever bus the NIC is on) Feb 06 17:45:57 :( Feb 06 17:46:02 I wonder does nokia have docs/sources for chipset. connexant (vendor of wifi chip) is known to not release anything rather Feb 06 17:46:27 I'm more interested in the PowerVR speaking of closed devices Feb 06 17:46:29 hrw: one of the nokia coders (kalle, i think) said on the maemo list that releasing the driver source is not an option Feb 06 17:46:38 dragorn: exactly Feb 06 17:46:46 hrw: and that adding injection is also not an option unless someone can prove a business case for it Feb 06 17:46:51 lardman: 3d acceleration? Feb 06 17:46:57 hrw: yep Feb 06 17:46:59 apparently "you'll sell a lot of devices in the security market" isn't a good enough reason Feb 06 17:47:38 hey jott i have a great idea! how about YOU implement pixel-doubling or accelerated blitting for exult? speeds up display incredibly Feb 06 17:47:49 got it built here but have the usual hellish xsp garbage Feb 06 17:50:11 Anyone know of any code that does call tree analysis/diagrams? Feb 06 17:50:41 Might have to sit down and write one in MATLAB Feb 06 17:52:07 bbiab Feb 06 17:57:50 In what order should the maemo-sdk be built in? Feb 06 17:59:25 The correct one. Feb 06 17:59:42 Oh, of course! Feb 06 17:59:51 * Navi hits GeneralAntilles with an old newspaper Feb 06 18:00:00 ^_^ Feb 06 18:00:04 Check the maemo.org tutorial? Feb 06 18:00:14 really , i want to know setting of usb networking . n800 <---> winxp (os2008) Feb 06 18:00:55 That wiki fuxxix up with the newest gecko revision :| Feb 06 18:01:07 http://davehylands.com/linux/gumstix/usbnet/ Feb 06 18:01:18 Then don't use the newest Gecko revision. Feb 06 18:01:31 But... but.. you're mean ;_; Feb 06 18:02:20 http://davehylands.com/linux/gumstix/usbnet/ >< Feb 06 18:02:26 this is right? Feb 06 18:03:49 GeneralAntilles, I'm going to kill you with my lasgun. Feb 06 18:04:04 maemo doesn't have lasguns. Feb 06 18:04:19 It's one option, I suppose, K-Fox. Feb 06 18:04:25 I have no experience with Windows, though. Feb 06 18:04:57 Try this maybe, K-Fox. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22usbnet%22+OR+%22usb+networking%22+windows+xp&btnG=Search Feb 06 18:05:01 ah fixed it woot Feb 06 18:06:38 time for some ads... Feb 06 18:07:12 if you want to have whole wikipedia on your nokia (3,2gb english, 1gb german) visit http://alendit.blogspot.com/2008/02/mokopedia-wikipedia-in-your-pocket.html Feb 06 18:07:16 :P Feb 06 18:07:29 GeneralAntilles : thanks.. Feb 06 18:09:51 say. why isn't dhcp rewriting my resolv.conf? Feb 06 18:17:54 maemo uses dnsmasq Feb 06 18:22:48 the wireless on this 810 is suspiciously slow Feb 06 18:22:55 I had thought it might be scp, but http isn't a ton faster Feb 06 18:23:03 perhaps wpa is muddling it up Feb 06 18:23:54 what is gumstix? Feb 06 18:25:31 i get about 700kB/s on n810 with WEP elb Feb 06 18:25:50 will test again Feb 06 18:26:53 that's about what I'm seeing with WPA Feb 06 18:27:14 but I would expect more like twice that, if it were saturating the network Feb 06 18:27:29 how are you measuring Feb 06 18:28:16 watching pull times for a large (150MB) file Feb 06 18:32:41 via scp, nfs, samba, wget, browser download? of LAN or Web? Feb 06 18:33:43 browser download, LAN Feb 06 18:34:04 as I said before, my first test was scp, and I thought it might have been that overhead Feb 06 18:34:14 but http via the browser wasn't significantly faster Feb 06 18:34:44 what about media write speed? Feb 06 18:34:56 surely the internal flash isn't slower htan 802.11g Feb 06 19:11:20 * sp3000 wonders why maemo-mapper decided to grab 31 8188kB chunks of memory Feb 06 19:12:13 (virtual size, resident is just 16kB for most of those) Feb 06 19:13:27 so my device is being all sorry dave I can't let you browse the web now :) Feb 06 19:14:03 * sp3000 fetches some sp-endurance goodness for tracking the sucker Feb 06 19:22:49 hi Feb 06 19:25:26 does the N810 charging when only usb is plugged ? Feb 06 19:26:59 juke: no Feb 06 19:27:04 juke: No, it charges any time the AC power is plugged in Feb 06 19:27:19 :( Feb 06 19:27:20 (unless it thinks it's charged) Feb 06 19:27:33 well, yes Feb 06 19:33:55 jott: you after Octave? Feb 06 19:34:45 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/OE_feed/ Feb 06 19:34:59 not quite a real feed as there's no packages list, must work that one out Feb 06 19:36:11 oh yes, and a vfp libm in there, so you ought to do some LD_LIBRARY magic when running them to get the best performance Feb 06 19:36:54 s/LD_LIBRARY/LD_LIBRARY_PATH of course Feb 06 19:45:41 can i make a .deb that app manager will install regardless of OS version? Feb 06 19:46:46 depends on the dependencies Feb 06 19:50:22 i'd like to do an installer that installs game data for exult Feb 06 19:50:27 without requiring shell Feb 06 19:51:18 yeah, you should be able to install a game data installer deb on any OS Feb 06 19:56:14 Tak: but not if it's 30 MB and user has 20 MB free, right? Feb 06 19:57:45 it depends - if the game data is all contained in the deb, then no. Feb 06 19:58:39 You could have the user download a tar.gz to, say, /media/mmc1/, then have the deb just be a script to install it correctly Feb 06 19:59:06 or you could have the deb be a script that downloads and installs a tar.gz Feb 06 20:00:19 ok that's the simplest. deb will install wget Feb 06 20:02:51 <||cw> can you have a deb ask for the dir to install to and let the user choose the mmc or whatever? will application manager freak out about it? Feb 06 20:05:27 ||cw: I think this is possible (specialy for data) , just like asking for the memu options Feb 06 20:07:09 isn't the size field checked by app manager? Feb 06 20:08:59 does anyone know of a script that will generate a Packages file? Feb 06 20:09:40 let me see if I still have mine Feb 06 20:09:49 thanks Feb 06 20:10:00 also, you should be using garage extras :-P Feb 06 20:10:19 once I learn how to sumbit packages, then yes Feb 06 20:10:32 or even submit them Feb 06 20:15:35 oh, dpkg-scanpackages Feb 06 20:15:50 hey all Feb 06 20:16:37 Tak: ah, ok thanks. Will do that when I get back to Linux-land Feb 06 20:16:56 hi maddler Feb 06 20:18:09 lardman: http://mirrorer.alioth.debian.org/ reprepro is quite nice for repository creation/management Feb 06 20:18:15 fetching your octave now ;) Feb 06 20:18:32 have you tested the performance impact of the vfp libm? Feb 06 20:18:56 jott: no, and in fact this is a new build so I don't even know that it works ;) Feb 06 20:19:22 hehe kk ;) done with oe? Feb 06 20:19:25 jott: actually that not quite true, I've tested the impact of vfp libm, just not with octave Feb 06 20:19:47 jott: no, OE is great, just been pretty busy today, and had to rebuild my computer over the weekend Feb 06 20:19:59 ah yeah.. Feb 06 20:20:27 what was the conclusion of the extras feed anyway, how does one upload stuff? Feb 06 20:20:47 how significant is the performance difference (like when using a vfp enabled build with a non vfp libm)? Feb 06 20:21:29 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/benchmarks/ might have something Feb 06 20:21:52 (and the testcase for sure if it only uses regular floating point operations and very few sqrt/.../libm functions it will not be that drastic ;-) Feb 06 20:22:36 hmm, I had nbench compiled somewhere Feb 06 20:23:59 right, here's a comparison for vfp compiled nbench with and without vfp libm Feb 06 20:24:16 wihout - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006382.html (just the omap2420 results) Feb 06 20:24:25 with - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006460.html Feb 06 20:24:33 look at the results for Fourier for example Feb 06 20:25:12 and this is the code so they aren't just random numbers ;) http://www.tux.org/~mayer/linux/bmark.html Feb 06 20:25:20 and now the magic question, how would a vfp libm perform with other non vfp libs ;) Feb 06 20:25:45 that I don't know, but just work some LD_LIBRARY_PATH magic and test Feb 06 20:26:02 yeah will do, later.. Feb 06 20:26:40 I run Octave from a script after setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH to point to the vfp libm, need to do some speed comparisons Feb 06 20:31:01 lardman: ok so the fourier slowness is due to the extensive pow usage i suppose :) Feb 06 20:33:20 lardman: do you know some good libm focused benchmark on top of your head? otherwise i might craw netlib a bit :) Feb 06 21:14:51 Hello Feb 06 21:15:06 anyone else bugged by the on hover CSS used by ITT? Feb 06 23:48:30 we have to do everything we can to KILL WINDOWS Feb 06 23:49:16 Ok, I'm with you, but what makes you say that right now? Feb 06 23:49:23 Hehe Feb 06 23:49:34 Do you seriously want all those Windows users switching to Linux. <_< Feb 06 23:49:59 nah...Mac is fine :D Feb 06 23:50:04 kill x86 Feb 06 23:50:08 ^ Feb 06 23:50:11 let them all sort it out Feb 06 23:50:27 ds3, and what will replace x86? Feb 06 23:50:29 it time for the arm revolution Feb 06 23:50:37 lol Feb 06 23:50:43 aaah...hmm...notsomuch Feb 06 23:50:46 ARM makes no sense for bigiron work. Feb 06 23:50:57 write more efficient software Feb 06 23:51:13 Yeah . . . that's a BS solution. Feb 06 23:51:13 yeah, but I still have to compile it Feb 06 23:51:20 :P Feb 06 23:51:22 write it in assembly :P Feb 06 23:52:08 Like - http://xkcd.com/378/ Feb 06 23:53:13 * |tbb| means that windows will kill itself if they develope like they did in years Feb 06 23:56:08 microsoft is an evil ass-raper and intel is an evil that is so unbelievable i can't even tell you what I know. Feb 06 23:57:06 is there any way to get files from my home directory in scratchbox other than copying to /tmp? Feb 06 23:59:24 * GeneralAntilles misses PPC. Feb 07 00:00:26 <|tbb|> anyway gnite all Feb 07 00:00:33 'night |tbb| Feb 07 00:34:44 crap i broke pahts somehow Feb 07 00:34:44 avatar can't find any path Feb 07 00:36:07 i remember my first PC magazine - "creative computing" Feb 07 00:36:07 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_Computing Feb 07 00:38:21 Creative - Computing? oxymoron I say! ;-P Feb 07 00:38:46 the magazine was published 1974-1985 Feb 07 00:39:08 but handhelds are reviving a little bit of the spirit Feb 07 00:39:12 Tama^2, oxymoron? You haven't seen any of my hacks then... Feb 07 00:39:39 yeah, the spirit exists in any field of computing that isn't "established" yet Feb 07 00:41:38 a shame the ipod sold Feb 07 00:41:43 deapite being a locked system Feb 07 00:41:58 now all the fanbois are geeking over 'unlocking' their treasure Feb 07 00:42:10 a swift kick to the gonads would be in order Feb 07 00:42:16 lol, true Feb 07 00:42:45 buy something crippled and spend time in order to un-cripple it instead of improving it Feb 07 00:43:20 hmmm...does it make me elitist if I'm glad that the tablet isn't quite mainstream yet? Feb 07 00:43:40 No Feb 07 00:43:42 I agree. Feb 07 00:44:02 i dunno, more sales = more developers Feb 07 00:44:34 more sales to devs = more devs, more sales to n00bs = more n00bs... Feb 07 00:44:35 Mainstream will require more pandering from Nokia. Feb 07 00:44:48 oh ok that is a valid poitn GeneralAntilles Feb 07 00:45:20 i'm happy as a pig with nokia to be honest. Feb 07 00:45:36 the 770 and the 810 are just lovely Feb 07 00:46:05 oh and gps lock with new gpsd today in 19 seconds Feb 07 00:46:28 the "leap year fix" gpsd? Feb 07 00:46:32 yeah. Feb 07 00:46:39 Nokia says that it doesn't help anything :) Feb 07 00:46:41 i read a response that claims the logic Feb 07 00:46:42 right Feb 07 00:46:57 so you must have imagined the lock :P Feb 07 00:46:58 my sampling is not statistically meaningful Feb 07 00:47:30 even though I have an N800 I'm really curious as to the nature of this bug Feb 07 00:47:37 it's an interesting mystery... Feb 07 00:47:54 what kills me is this occasional terrible sound quality on the n810 Feb 07 00:48:03 sometimes it is better, sometimes worse Feb 07 00:48:30 i imagine the n800 has great sound Feb 07 00:48:39 the 770 is great Feb 07 00:49:08 The N800 is fine sound...somewhere in the range of crappy laptop speakers Feb 07 00:50:29 woo! I have a booting 2.6 kernel on my zaurus 5500 again Feb 07 00:52:14 well with respect to speaker technology, there are dynamic cones, and then there are these planar membrane / electrostatic technologies Feb 07 00:52:23 and cell phones nowadays use this newer tech Feb 07 00:52:29 and it's amazing stuff Feb 07 00:52:45 what do the N8x0 use? Feb 07 00:52:46 old laptops used dynamic speakers like the conical things we remember Feb 07 00:52:53 these new things Feb 07 00:52:56 aaah Feb 07 00:53:05 i'm not sure if 'electrostatic' is the right word Feb 07 00:53:13 but that's how they get the amazing volume Feb 07 00:53:26 yeah, they sound pretty darn good for being so small, but my big laptop definitely has better sound Feb 07 00:53:28 a dime sized cone speaker could never do it Feb 07 00:54:01 then again, my big laptop also has a subwoofer... Feb 07 00:54:24 johnx: take a look: best speakers in the world use this tech Feb 07 00:54:26 http://vmpseurope.com/RM30.htm Feb 07 00:55:50 very cool looking Feb 07 01:07:44 So, did i see abiword in the repositories for a few days, and now it's gone. Feb 07 01:07:52 ? Feb 07 01:10:13 i dunno Feb 07 01:10:22 it's in private beta right now I think Feb 07 01:11:27 That would be a nice addition. I use my n800 as a workplace wokhorse. Feb 07 01:12:10 I assume you have a bluetooth keyboard? Feb 07 01:12:44 I beat the hell out of gpe calendar. I think i have over a thousand entries. Feb 07 01:12:54 Oh hell yah. Feb 07 01:14:07 that's pretty cool Feb 07 01:14:24 I think Nokia is probably seeing a lot more creative uses for the tablets as time goes by Feb 07 01:15:41 yes, theyv brought back n-gage ;) Feb 07 01:16:19 woo! Feb 07 01:16:27 maybe they'll do another midnight launch? Feb 07 01:16:37 I use it the pim stuff like a maniac. But ukmp is pretty up there on my list, too. Feb 07 01:17:12 abiword is a nice idea, but why would i want a word processor? Feb 07 01:17:29 ... to put something on *paper*? Feb 07 01:17:37 N-Gage branded NIT would be OK with me. Feb 07 01:17:54 paper might be the end result, i couldnt afford to give out 20 n810's at every staff meeting ;) Feb 07 01:17:58 i'm buying a pandora GeneralAntilles Feb 07 01:18:17 Let me know how that goes. Feb 07 01:18:24 and I'm keeping my Zaurus C1000... Feb 07 01:18:27 I think it's probably a little too emulation focused for my tastes. Feb 07 01:19:04 i think pupnik has an itch and wants a game machine to scratch it Feb 07 01:19:27 was the 800 better for games (button location) than the 810? Feb 07 01:19:29 no i'm buying one cause that project is totally heroic Feb 07 01:19:46 http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/65/68/22846865.jpg Feb 07 01:19:48 Needs that instead. Feb 07 01:19:51 Cheaper, too. Feb 07 01:19:58 Duh, lcuk_3. :P Feb 07 01:20:09 Abiword would be a lifesaver! I end up waiting hours in court, being able to catch up on my writing would be nice. Feb 07 01:20:58 do you print things and mail them esworp ? Feb 07 01:21:10 I write stuff in ASCII and use asciidoc to convert it to HTML or docbook Feb 07 01:21:25 ... not for everyone, I know Feb 07 01:21:40 for simple stuff the "notes" application saves in html Feb 07 01:22:12 but abiword would be a nice one-stop app for opening a .doc, editing it and sending it to someone Feb 07 01:22:23 I would /love/ to submit a judicial review or petition in asciii, monospace. They'd totally barf. Feb 07 01:22:41 :) Feb 07 01:22:53 ahaha...I turned in a paper in high school once in 80 character columns Feb 07 01:22:54 esworp, whats the most common format now? Feb 07 01:23:03 I think I actually did cat my-paper.txt > /dev/lp0 Feb 07 01:23:09 i am so god damn glad i don't have to deal with those kinds of people Feb 07 01:25:37 "Your honor, if you'll scroll down to line 235, punch card 35, you'll see the report from the behavioral analyst.'' Feb 07 01:26:06 They're on /my/ side at my job. It's been alright. Feb 07 01:26:30 "your honor, if you'll ignore the rendering glitch caused my converting from office 2003 to office 98..." Feb 07 01:27:41 Hah, i know. I use Pages moslty, and see folk thrash on thier windows machines. Feb 07 01:28:34 so is the new pages as nice as people say? Feb 07 01:29:49 I like it, yah. But i recognize it's not for everyone. Feb 07 01:30:44 It's beautiful. Feb 07 01:30:57 it's good to see apple finally trying to *do something* about the ms office on Mac situation... Feb 07 01:30:58 Though I don't 100% care for how it functions. Feb 07 01:31:07 Bastard child of Pagemaker and Word. Feb 07 01:31:16 * johnx shivers Feb 07 01:31:21 gah...pagemaker Feb 07 01:31:24 Hehe Feb 07 01:31:36 I've done a LOT on Pagemaker. Feb 07 01:31:39 It's not SO bad. Feb 07 01:31:49 Pageworder? Wordpager? Pages. Feb 07 01:31:49 on mac or windows? Feb 07 01:31:57 but s/Pagemaker/generic DTP program/ Feb 07 01:32:02 Windows Feb 07 01:32:11 Wordmaker! Feb 07 01:32:11 I dunno, it's *pretty bad* Feb 07 01:32:17 Most of my high school's big print projects were done by me. Feb 07 01:32:41 pagemaker was so damn buggy and crashy Feb 07 01:32:53 you *looked at it wrong* and it would just disappear Feb 07 01:32:55 any body here know anything about kdrive Feb 07 01:33:06 I would like to use openoffice on thr mac, but it feels like it should be running on a macplus. Feb 07 01:33:08 smackpotato, in terms of the code or in terms of usage? Feb 07 01:33:22 code Feb 07 01:33:48 smackpotato, well, try asking anyways, but no promises... Feb 07 01:33:56 Write in windows was pretty good Feb 07 01:34:13 esworp, I really don't understand what everyone's love of OpenOffice is...it's just not that great and it's massively bloated Feb 07 01:34:20 i was wondering if there is a way to disconect the stylus from the core pointrr Feb 07 01:34:37 while it's running? Feb 07 01:34:57 ya that would be the idea Feb 07 01:35:26 It's free, johnx. ;) Feb 07 01:35:53 is there a dummy input device i can change to Feb 07 01:39:33 Oh oh! I am TOTALLY looking for a gui based file manager that'll let me explore the hidden folders. I expected gpe filemanager too, but alas, no cigar. Feb 07 01:44:45 given some of the semirecent threads on ITT, anyone trying to use the N8x0 to print to a tiny portable printer? Feb 07 01:47:04 basicly what id want to,do is move a cursor around without my finger on top of it Feb 07 01:47:47 move it from an external device or from software? Feb 07 01:48:02 I secretly hate that the thumbboard is hard to invoke sometimes Feb 07 01:48:53 Just use the d-pad. Feb 07 01:49:08 i hate moving back and vorth from stylus to thumb Feb 07 01:49:20 damn im lazy Feb 07 01:49:35 ya the dpad is ok Feb 07 01:49:42 finger not good enough or are programs still designed too small? Feb 07 01:49:55 D-pad in gpe calendar is the 'cancel' button. Feb 07 01:49:56 * lcuk_3 hates aiming for a pinpoint with a finger device Feb 07 01:50:00 does somebody besides me want to be a hero and port a gp2x snes emulator to the tablets? Feb 07 01:50:33 depending on how often you want to move the cursor something like xdotool might work... Feb 07 01:50:41 how modular is the cpu core? Feb 07 01:51:06 thanks johnx Feb 07 01:51:48 fysa: i don't want to say anything incorrect, but porting from gp2x is basically front-end stuff, not core stuff Feb 07 01:52:23 would it be easier to move parts of the core into a working frontend? Feb 07 01:52:55 well ... that's what i tried doing Feb 07 01:53:11 i took snes9x and started copying over the gp2x optimized core stuff Feb 07 01:53:18 and it kindn of blew up in my face Feb 07 01:53:18 even just a few bits would help immensely Feb 07 01:53:43 so .. you can grab my stuff, if it might help Feb 07 01:53:45 ah Feb 07 01:54:12 http://pupnik.de/DrPocketSnes_Nokia_The_Horror.tgz Feb 07 01:54:22 would compiling directly on a real processor give any performance advantage? Feb 07 01:54:44 no Feb 07 01:55:18 i though i heard that somewhere and it never quite made sense. Feb 07 01:56:33 either that or take over some of my easier projects Feb 07 01:56:48 'penguin command' is an 'easy' one to fix-up Feb 07 01:56:58 kobo deluxe also isn't too hard Feb 07 01:57:29 technoballz needs attention Feb 07 01:57:58 and (sob) ur-quan masters too, but i'm too far advanced to hand that over Feb 07 01:58:35 mtpaint needs hildonization Feb 07 01:58:46 UAE needs scaling, pixel doubling, mouse tweaks Feb 07 01:59:08 C64 - Frodo needs a finished sdl UI, and/or a game launcher front-end Feb 07 01:59:26 DGEN could use an alignment fix or two Feb 07 01:59:34 FreeSCI needs optimization for N770 Feb 07 01:59:43 Xu4 needs sdl keyboard Feb 07 01:59:51 Nuvie has too many problems to list Feb 07 01:59:57 Exult i'm working on right now Feb 07 02:00:09 Pentagram needs a dedicated porter/tweaker Feb 07 02:00:15 Xbak needs a core developer Feb 07 02:00:30 TOME needs a sdl keyboard and gtk or sdl rework Feb 07 02:00:35 ... ... Feb 07 02:01:23 Netrek deserves a port that works well, i made progress on it Feb 07 02:01:53 Secret Maryo chronicles needs speed tweaks and fixes from the newer opengl versions applied to the SDL version Feb 07 02:01:53 I cant even do my laundry, a programming job is a little over my head. Feb 07 02:02:06 Pingus.. well that just needs packaging Feb 07 02:02:14 Worms of Prey needs a bunch of work Feb 07 02:02:19 Wormux needs a bunch of work Feb 07 02:02:34 TouchMe Games needs a gtk/hildon guy to rescale the game to 800x480 Feb 07 02:02:47 The Mana World needs a networking fix for 770 and packaging work Feb 07 02:02:54 Nazghul i'm working on right now Feb 07 02:03:01 Cave Story would be a cool one, too. Feb 07 02:03:04 Fish Fillets, i don't even have a clue Feb 07 02:03:15 http://pupnik.de/software Feb 07 02:03:23 pupnik, maybe you should actually post something to the dev section of internettablettalk asking for help? Feb 07 02:04:55 nah i post too much to ITT as it is Feb 07 02:05:42 but kudos to jott and solmuhaha the latest guys to jump-in to help Feb 07 02:05:55 (exult, dosbox and jagged alliance 2) Feb 07 02:06:01 and also pipeline Feb 07 02:09:12 then i've got another project i've promised to release 2 months after getting the n810 Feb 07 02:09:21 then another project i can't say ANYTHING about Feb 07 02:31:57 http://home.cfl.rr.com/genecash/nokia/ Feb 07 02:32:38 Check the poor guy's bitch sesh about os2008 near the bottom. Feb 07 02:34:16 is he a person who doesn't like freedom? Feb 07 02:34:46 i.e. an ape in a cage who throws his fecal matter at the free humans walking outside of his cage? Feb 07 02:34:56 pupnik, what? Feb 07 02:35:12 a lot of people defend their slavery Feb 07 02:35:25 he ran into problems with OS2008 and so he switched back to OS2007 Feb 07 02:35:30 ho Feb 07 02:35:31 oh Feb 07 02:35:35 He must not be remebering the hellish heap memory issues of the newton, or rampant crashes on the palm. Feb 07 02:36:02 I've actually been looking at some of those apps he wrote and thinking about trying to get them working on OS2008 Feb 07 02:36:05 they look really nice Feb 07 02:36:35 you should try exult in a few days Feb 07 02:36:36 That's the tragedy, eh? Feb 07 02:36:50 it's getting close to fun as hell Feb 07 02:37:07 Exhult? Feb 07 02:37:19 Er exult. Feb 07 02:37:56 http://pupnik.de/Exult_Ultima_VII_Nokia_770_02.jpg Feb 07 02:38:27 Oh. Hell yah. Feb 07 02:38:42 that looks great! Feb 07 02:38:59 was there much of a trick to getting it running 800x480 instead of 640x480? Feb 07 02:39:04 no Feb 07 02:39:07 that's easy Feb 07 02:39:24 thanks to the awesome exult devs Feb 07 02:41:52 does anyone know if the palm centro works with bluetooth DUN on the n810 Feb 07 02:58:38 Has anyone ever tried to make a lefty-friendly change to our device? Feb 07 02:59:08 I don't think anyone has tried...just asked if other people have tried :) Feb 07 02:59:48 My only real gripe. :\ Feb 07 02:59:54 Heh **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 07 02:59:57 2008